SDV: Switched Digital Video
They need to update their infrastructure.
2 years might be optimistic, but we can hope. :cool:

Would be nice if TW through some bones you way to make you not want to switch to dish/Direct..

yes free HD Channels..is nice..but when its only a hand full of channels..I would rather pay an extra 5 or $10 a month and get 20 or 30 more then what I am getting now..

Plus throw in no Big Ten network or NFL network and you can understand why people leave Cable to Dish/Direct..

its not like they are cheaper either...as there way of getting you to stay..

Its the phone and probably Internet Connection is whats keep many from switching..

Would be nice if TW through some bones you way to make you not want to switch to dish/Direct..

yes free HD Channels..is nice..but when its only a hand full of channels..I would rather pay an extra 5 or $10 a month and get 20 or 30 more then what I am getting now..

Plus throw in no Big Ten network or NFL network and you can understand why people leave Cable to Dish/Direct..

its not like they are cheaper either...as there way of getting you to stay..

Its the phone and probably Internet Connection is whats keep many from switching..

*shrug*
I don't have TWC.
I *barely* follow the Browns, and only if they are decent.
I have too many trees around my home to have a dish.
And, yes, two phone lines + cable TV + high speed internet is a nice package. Saves me WELL over $400 a year in phone alone.
But I do hear what you are saying. ;)

*shrug*
I don't have TWC.
I have too many trees around my home to have a dish.
But I do hear what you are saying. ;)

you have ???

I was looking at that new Verizon TV package and thats looks impressive..wonder whats good and bad with it

you have ???

I was looking at that new Verizon TV package and thats looks impressive..wonder whats good and bad with it

WOW Cable, competitor to TWC (old Adelphia system by me).
But all cable co's suck. WOW was the first to offer VOIP in my area that could handle a FAX over a VOIP modem, so I went with them.

how can Time Warner keep up when they are so far behind Dish and direct..

will Cable ever come close to what you can get from these 2 companies..

I'm not ever going to defend cable. But not everyone can have satellite television. Just like not everyone can have cable.

Having said that you have to look at the big picture. Just how many of these HD cable channels will you really watch? For me throw in USA and FX and I'm done.

The vast majority of recording I do is network broadcasting during prime time. I'm currently recording some Showtime stuff but I have like seasons of shows I've downloaded before I even get to them.

So you can say you have 130 HD channels, but that doesn't mean crap to me if I don't watch them. I'm seriously thinking of dropping my "Premier" Package of HD channels as it is now because I never watch anything on HDnet, HDnet Movies, Mojo, or Discovery.

So I'm happy for D* people, really. But I guarantee that I would not need that many HD channels.

And like everyone else said, once SDV gets here, and I think it will be less the two years they will have many more channels on cable.

But I only want two.:)

I'm not ever going to defend cable. But not everyone can have satellite television. Just like not everyone can have cable.

Having said that you have to look at the big picture. Just how many of these HD cable channels will you really watch? For me throw in USA and FX and I'm done.

The vast majority of recording I do is network broadcasting during prime time. I'm currently recording some Showtime stuff but I have like seasons of shows I've downloaded before I even get to them.

So you can say you have 130 HD channels, but that doesn't mean crap to me if I don't watch them. I'm seriously thinking of dropping my "Premier" Package of HD channels as it is now because I never watch anything on HDnet, HDnet Movies, Mojo, or Discovery.

So I'm happy for D* people, really. But I guarantee that I would not need that many HD channels.

And like everyone else said, once SDV gets here, and I think it will be less the two years they will have many more channels on cable.

But I only want two.:)

you are right..how many channels do you really watch...

Give me the ESPN's/STO/Fox ohio/Locals and a few others and thats about it..but I guess its also about having the option if someone else in your family wants to watch something in HD on a channels that doesn't interest you they are out there for them to do it..

But you are right..even with all the channels we have on Cable or even from the Dish..how many non local channels do you really watch...

you got me there..

EXCELLENT POINT

I rigged up the RCA DTT900 with a 12 year old TV I have..Here's the setup:

I have an RCA Tru-Flat TV with Cable sittng on top of the older TV..With a Terk amplified Antenna On top of the setup..I am getting many of the Pittsburgh/Johnstown stations tonight..I am watching WWCP-Fox 8 Johnstown as I am typing this..with an extremely good signal..as good as local WDLI at the moment..

SDV: Switched Digital Video
They need to update their infrastructure.
2 years might be optimistic, but we can hope. :cool:

2 years? I'm willing to bet it will be sooner than that. I've found the SDV test channels. I noticed they have been removed from the guide(wink wink ;)). But they are there.

And Channel 15, the Akron Public Schools channel is now digital. That means there are no more analog channels for customers with cable boxes.

I get the feeling TW may be going all-digital sooner than we think.

You can say "How many channels do you really watch...", but I bet that it's tough to come up with a single list. Hook talks about how he watches mostly network programming, you mentioned sports, but there are others who list would probably not include those. I watch very little network programming, and while I want sports, I also like History HD, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, and Food HD (Don't hate me, hook!).

So you have to offer a large quantity of HD to make as many people happy as possible. Of course, the true answer is ala carte, but we won't ever see that. The cable and satellite companies would fight forever about that!


you are right..how many channels do you really watch...

Give me the ESPN's/STO/Fox ohio/Locals and a few others and thats about it..but I guess its also about having the option if someone else in your family wants to watch something in HD on a channels that doesn't interest you they are out there for them to do it..

But you are right..even with all the channels we have on Cable or even from the Dish..how many non local channels do you really watch...

you got me there..

EXCELLENT POINT

2 years? I'm willing to bet it will be sooner than that. I've found the SDV test channels. I noticed they have been removed from the guide(wink wink ;)). But they are there.......

Well let's hope it's much sooner. I'm just playing off of Smart-pants' comment of 2 years. But keep in mind: it's Ohio and it's Cleveland to boot! :eek: Cleveland being one of the last metro areas in the country to even get cable.

I've been "hearing" the Ohio Turnpike is getting E-Z Pass for the last 5 years. Last I read they are "shooting" for 2010. Again, I sure hope so, the sooner the better. But it sounds more like a Space Odyssey than reality to me. ;)

I'll believe it when I see it.

Hey, it's Cleveland, you get used to disappointment or you go mad! :p

You can say "How many channels do you really watch...", but I bet that it's tough to come up with a single list. Hook talks about how he watches mostly network programming, you mentioned sports, but there are others who list would probably not include those. I watch very little network programming, and while I want sports, I also like History HD, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, and Food HD (Don't hate me, hook!).

So you have to offer a large quantity of HD to make as many people happy as possible. Of course, the true answer is ala carte, but we won't ever see that. The cable and satellite companies would fight forever about that!

Exactly! It's not about "need", it's about choice. The more choices the better. Based on need only, we don't require any TV. As an upright walking two legged creature we've survived for 10,000+ years without TV. Many would argue we'd all be better off without TV.

Well.....except for Speed Channel......that we need. :D

You can say "How many channels do you really watch...", but I bet that it's tough to come up with a single list. Hook talks about how he watches mostly network programming, you mentioned sports, but there are others who list would probably not include those. I watch very little network programming, and while I want sports, I also like History HD, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, and Food HD (Don't hate me, hook!).

I also like the History Channel in HD, and I was quite surprised at the quality of programming offered.

In the past the only time I watched History Channels was when they would do something about Hitler. No, I'm not a neo Nazi, don't even go there but I have a fascination with people who are really sick and commit autrocities on mankind. Serial killers, also get my interest.

Now I got everyone either running to the phone to dial 911 or sending PM's, "see, I knew hook was a real sicko!":)

But all of this stuff usually was either old black and white, scratchy tape. Some still is but not all of it. I've found shows like "Monster Quest", "Gangland," and a few others very entertaining and educational. And they look good in HD.

I also will admit that I usually only watch these shows when I go to bed and almost always fall asleep before the are over.:D

Still, they are good shows.

So you have to offer a large quantity of HD to make as many people happy as possible. Of course, the true answer is ala carte, but we won't ever see that. The cable and satellite companies would fight forever about that!

I'm not certain that's the case. I think cable companies are in favor of some type of channel line up that you could purchase, like a sports tier, but it wouldn't be much better then what we have now. I don't want to purchase every sport out there, I just want football and baseball. I could care less about big 10 network or for the matter the NFL Network. That's what they want so they could include those channels.

I live in East Akron (Ellet). I cannot get either TV to find it...

I rigged up the RCA DTT900 with a 12 year old TV I have..Here's the setup:

I have an RCA Tru-Flat TV with Cable sittng on top of the older TV..With a Terk amplified Antenna On top of the setup..I am getting many of the Pittsburgh/Johnstown stations tonight..I am watching WWCP-Fox 8 Johnstown as I am typing this..with an extremely good signal..as good as local WDLI at the moment..
I picked up WWCP-FOX 8 last year on my old 921. It wiped out WJW from my menu until I rescanned. I kept the 8-2 subchannel (which was listed as WATM which is the Altoona ABC affilliate) along with our FOX 8 for awhile just for fun.

Even though our FOX 8 and Johnstown's are on different rf channels, the virtural mapping was too much for the old 921 to handle.

BTW: What is the rf channel for WWCP-DT?

Newbie question...I have been trying to get local Pittsburgh stations (especially KDKA-DT Channel 2) for a while. I gave up about a year ago and have not looked at the OTA stuff since. BTW, I live in Louisville, OH. Last night, however, I rescanned for channels on my OTA HD box and got KDKA along with other local Pittsburgh channels even though my antenna was pointed about 45 degrees away from Pittsburgh towards Youngstown. I was ecstatic! However, today, I have no signal on all those channels. Not a one comes in! It is a picture perfect day outside between here and the Burgh. What gives? Do stations increase and decrease their power during the day?

Newbie question...I have been trying to get local Pittsburgh stations (especially KDKA-DT Channel 2) for a while. I gave up about a year ago and have not looked at the OTA stuff since. BTW, I live in Louisville, OH. Last night, however, I rescanned for channels on my OTA HD box and got KDKA along with other local Pittsburgh channels even though my antenna was pointed about 45 degrees away from Pittsburgh towards Youngstown. I was ecstatic! However, today, I have no signal on all those channels. Not a one comes in! It is a picture perfect day outside between here and the Burgh. What gives? Do stations increase and decrease their power during the day?

I don't know how digital signals work but I know that with what I've seen myself with using a digital converter box some stations come in better then others at different times.

You smart OTA guys out there.....Is it possible that trees can cause problems getting digital signals when they have leaves? I notice for example and I know this is kind of an apples and oranges thing that my XM antenna can be just about anywhere and I can get a signal. Then when the leaves come out I have to put it in a different position. And in August it gets real touchy, which I don't have a clue as to why that is.

I know that right now with the rabbit ears I'm getting Fox 8 and WEWS good. That's it.

TWC NEO hasn't always been slow in introducing new services. The TWC Akron/Canton market was the first to get RoadRunner back in 1996. IIRC, it was also the second commercial two-way cable Internet deployment in the country.

I remember being sick for a week right as TWC was upgrading the network to fiber. That was back in 1995.

Of course, I lived in Marks Cablevision territory in 1996, and they didn't start offering internet service until shortly before TWC took over the franchise in 2002 (which was shortly after DSL became available.) That transition seemed quick, but then again, Cable One might not have offered digital video yet.

I've been "hearing" the Ohio Turnpike is getting E-Z Pass for the last 5 years. Last I read they are "shooting" for 2010. Again, I sure hope so, the sooner the better. But it sounds more like a Space Odyssey than reality to me. ;)

I'll believe it when I see it.


Off-topic, but from the Turnpike's website (http://www.ohioturnpike.org/travelers/faq/ezpass/):


Q. Is E-ZPass available on the Ohio Turnpike?
A. Currently, E-ZPass is not available on the Ohio Turnpike; however, the Commission awarded a contract (Project No. 64-08-01) for a new toll collection system, which will include the implementation of electronic toll collection technology. It is anticipated that E-ZPass will be available to Ohio Turnpike customers in the Fall of 2009.


You know, I'm just sick of the whole attitude around here. "It's Cleveland, we suck, we won't ever get anything", etc...it makes me want to say screw it and move.

TWC NEO hasn't always been slow in introducing new services. The TWC Akron/Canton market was the first to get RoadRunner back in 1996. IIRC, it was also the second commercial two-way cable Internet deployment in the country.

I remember being sick for a week right as TWC was upgrading the network to fiber. That was back in 1995.

Of course, I lived in Marks Cablevision territory in 1996, and they didn't start offering internet service until shortly before TWC took over the franchise in 2002 (which was shortly after DSL became available.) That transition seemed quick, but then again, Cable One might not have offered digital video yet.

Taking over one small company is much easier then what TW did in our area. Not only did they take over Adelphia, which had took over several small companies and never fully realigned them they also took over Comcast. And with all due respect to Cathode Kid I still have not seen any evidence of a SA 8300 SARA box converted to Navigator. In addition to that they still have all the Motorola boxes that belonged to Comcast. It's quite the job and to be perfectly fair they have done a good job on their lineup conversion, but they still have a great deal of obstacles before SDV will be introduced.

You know, I'm just sick of the whole attitude around here. "It's Cleveland, we suck, we won't ever get anything", etc...it makes me want to say screw it and move.

And we are the only area to still have echeck.

Well, if it makes you feel better, L.A. had an 5.8 earthquake. Now I've been in larger, but that will definitely get your attention.:eek:

And given the choice of living in NE Ohio or L.A. I will take NE Ohio. Notice I didn't say Cleveland.

When people ask me where I live or work I say "between Akron and Cleveland" because it's embarrasing to say Cleveland.

Off-topic, but from the Turnpike's website (http://www.ohioturnpike.org/travelers/faq/ezpass/):



You know, I'm just sick of the whole attitude around here. "It's Cleveland, we suck, we won't ever get anything", etc...it makes me want to say screw it and move.

As I said, I'll believe it when I see it! ;) Just like SDV, I'm sure it's coming, I just don't trust the stated completion dates till it actually happens.

Their rinky-dink Toll Ready Card (a simple pre-paid debit card) was implemented about two years after their original "projected" date. Instead of screwing around with a ridiculous debit card they could have & should have implemented E-Z Pass like many other states were doing at that time.

I live here by choice, crappy cable service and all. I could move to any other metro area in the country and bring my biz with me (and dramatically improve my income). I choose NE Ohio cuz I like it here. But I also like to get my digs in. :)

I also like the History Channel in HD, and I was quite surprised at the quality of programming offered.

In the past the only time I watched History Channels was when they would do something about Hitler. No, I'm not a neo Nazi, don't even go there but I have a fascination with people who are really sick and commit autrocities on mankind. Serial killers, also get my interest.

Now I got everyone either running to the phone to dial 911 or sending PM's, "see, I knew hook was a real sicko!":)

But all of this stuff usually was either old black and white, scratchy tape. Some still is but not all of it. I've found shows like "Monster Quest", "Gangland," and a few others very entertaining and educational. And they look good in HD.

I also will admit that I usually only watch these shows when I go to bed and almost always fall asleep before the are over.:D

Still, they are good shows.

I like the History HD channel too, but I'm also disappointed. For such a serious channel with quality programming, I cannot believe they are so sloppy with the aspect ratio. One episode of Monster Quest was shown is stretched letterbox EVERY time it was on. It was the episode about giant rats that I wanted to see too.

And we are the only area to still have echeck.

Well, if it makes you feel better, L.A. had an 5.8 earthquake. Now I've been in larger, but that will definitely get your attention.:eek:

And given the choice of living in NE Ohio or L.A. I will take NE Ohio. Notice I didn't say Cleveland.

When people ask me where I live or work I say "between Akron and Cleveland" because it's embarrasing to say Cleveland.

You could always move to Akron. :D:D

Much better than Cleveland, plus the "original" Time Warner area.

Can anyone say S D V?

You could always move to Akron. :D:D

Much better than Cleveland, plus the "original" Time Warner area.

Can anyone say S D V?

Nope, I'm not Toby. And I just got a letter from the bank telling me how the value of my home has dropped from what we paid for it.

Thanks again, GWB. After all didn't Ohio put you in the office? And name one single thing you did to say thanks!

And you still won't get SDV for at least another year and a half.

Oh and the episode of Rats? I deleted that one. Rats before bed, I don't think so.;)

Newbie question...I have been trying to get local Pittsburgh stations (especially KDKA-DT Channel 2) for a while. I gave up about a year ago and have not looked at the OTA stuff since. BTW, I live in Louisville, OH. Last night, however, I rescanned for channels on my OTA HD box and got KDKA along with other local Pittsburgh channels even though my antenna was pointed about 45 degrees away from Pittsburgh towards Youngstown. I was ecstatic! However, today, I have no signal on all those channels. Not a one comes in! It is a picture perfect day outside between here and the Burgh. What gives? Do stations increase and decrease their power during the day?
It's not the station's power that increases & decreases, it's the atmospheric conditions that allow distant reception. You are lucky to get KDKA-DT since it's digital signal is on rf 25. It will be easier to get KDKA-DT once WVIZ-TV signs off rf 25 for good (they are staying digital on rf 26).

About the only "distant" station anybody can get with regularity is WKBN-DT. They have a winning combination of power & tower (HIGH in both cases) that allow their predicted coverage area to hit from Cleveland to Pittsburgh!

This is peak skip season. Enjoy it while it lasts, but never count on it for day to day reception. Check this site out to see when skip is high in the region:
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

BTW: "picture perfect days" do not mean skip is up, in fact sometimes the opposite may be true. OTOH "Ozone alert days" usually are accompanied by high skip!

And with all due respect to Cathode Kid I still have not seen any evidence of a SA 8300 SARA box converted to Navigator.

Would it help if I said that I saw an SA 8300 running Navigator with my own two eyes? ;)

I picked up WWCP-FOX 8 last year on my old 921. It wiped out WJW from my menu until I rescanned. I kept the 8-2 subchannel (which was listed as WATM which is the Altoona ABC affilliate) along with our FOX 8 for awhile just for fun.

Even though our FOX 8 and Johnstown's are on different rf channels, the virtural mapping was too much for the old 921 to handle.

BTW: What is the rf channel for WWCP-DT?

Not absolutely sure but I think it's channel 29.

Would it help if I said that I saw an SA 8300 running Navigator with my own two eyes? ;)

I don't doubt that you saw an SA 8300 running Navigator. The question is did it have SARA in in previously? That, I've not found one confirmed report other then you saying so.

No disrespect intended. But I want to see somebody else come in here with an SA 8300 with SARA and tell me they have been converted. Because over in the SA 8300 SARA thread, nobody can confirm that.

SDV will not require Navigator software. There are a whole heck of a lot of boxes out there with SARA. Inundated has an SA 8000 with SARA and he's not converted.

Hello everyone, I would like to install a UHF antenna pointed towards WEWS and WKYC digital signals (for post 2009 transition). The stations are 75-80 miles from where I'm at and can get the analog signals from those stations pretty good. Can anyone suggestion a good UHF antenna that would be good for that kind of distance?

Newbie question...I have been trying to get local Pittsburgh stations (especially KDKA-DT Channel 2) for a while. I gave up about a year ago and have not looked at the OTA stuff since. BTW, I live in Louisville, OH. Last night, however, I rescanned for channels on my OTA HD box and got KDKA along with other local Pittsburgh channels even though my antenna was pointed about 45 degrees away from Pittsburgh towards Youngstown. I was ecstatic! However, today, I have no signal on all those channels. Not a one comes in! It is a picture perfect day outside between here and the Burgh. What gives? Do stations increase and decrease their power during the day?

Physical Channel 2 is used by WKYC-DT until next February, so that would pretty much preclude seeing KDKA's analog signal around here, period.

What software is on the 8300HD boxes in Twinsburg? I thought things were bad when they squirted our Passport boxes with Navigator in Dayton. Now I'm looking forward to Navigator.

What software is on the 8300HD boxes in Twinsburg? I thought things were bad when they squirted our Passport boxes with Navigator in Dayton. Now I'm looking forward to Navigator.

I'm pretty sure that is SARA, because I use to go to the Macedonia office and they were my point of service.

SARA really bites, doesn't it? There is a way to tell, you turn your unit off and then you press two buttons and the diagnostic screen pops up but it's been so long I've forgotten.

It's not the station's power that increases & decreases, it's the atmospheric conditions that allow distant reception. You are lucky to get KDKA-DT since it's digital signal is on rf 25. It will be easier to get KDKA-DT once WVIZ-TV signs off rf 25 for good (they are staying digital on rf 26).

About the only "distant" station anybody can get with regularity is WKBN-DT. They have a winning combination of power & tower (HIGH in both cases) that allow their predicted coverage area to hit from Cleveland to Pittsburgh!

This is peak skip season. Enjoy it while it lasts, but never count on it for day to day reception. Check this site out to see when skip is high in the region:
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

BTW: "picture perfect days" do not mean skip is up, in fact sometimes the opposite may be true. OTOH "Ozone alert days" usually are accompanied by high skip!

This is all absolutely correct. Using an excellent antenna on a 50' tower here in Canton, I can usually see low DT signals from several Pittsburgh and/or Johnstown stations but they stay below receivable levels unless there is tropospheric enhancement. During the summer months when this enhancement is common, I can enjoy some Pittsburgh/Johnstown DT reception almost daily, especially WPXI-DT. This kind of reception is extremely rare during the rest of the year, although snowy analog reception is usually possible any time. I do have regular reception of WTOV-DT, Steubenville but then they are closer to us than Pittsburgh or Johnstown. Reception of WTRF-DT, Wheeling WV may be possible here once they go to full power and begin transmitting on RF ch 7. Right now, both their analog and DT facilities are at reduced power levels. Besides good reception of WTOV-DT, I also get WOUC-DT, Cambridge with strong signals. Both of these should be receivable in the Louisville area with a decent outdoor antenna, referring to k2rj's earlier post. I can see KDKA analog ch 2 most of the time but with a lot of "snow", much of which is probably digital interference from WKYC-DT. After 2/09, WTOV-DT will be on RF ch 9 (moving from ch 57) which may improve their reception area.

I can see KDKA analog ch 2 most of the time but with a lot of "snow", much of which is probably digital interference from WKYC-DT.
Yep. That is exactly what analog reception looks like when a digital signal is also present. Here in the antenna farm those with cable have problems with cable ch2 unless all the cables are fastened extremely tight, even then that channel (which is WVPX on Cox cable) looks weaker than the rest.

In dealing with digital signals, most know it's "all or nothing" depending on the angle of the antenna I usually get 17, 27, 45 and 67 on digital (with any corresponding (multi-channels)..Much of the time 21 and 49..and sometimes 55..For a time I was getting 5 and 8, but those are quite rare..I suspect when WVPX-23 goes digital, I should get it too.

What software is on the 8300HD boxes in Twinsburg? I thought things were bad when they squirted our Passport boxes with Navigator in Dayton. Now I'm looking forward to Navigator.

I'm pretty sure that is SARA, because I use to go to the Macedonia office and they were my point of service.

SARA really bites, doesn't it? There is a way to tell, you turn your unit off and then you press two buttons and the diagnostic screen pops up but it's been so long I've forgotten.

For the record, SARA DOES NOT BITE!!! SARA is the Rolls Royce compared to the Kia that is known as Navigator.

I try thinking happy thoughts, but I had to share. Navigator is such a POS i made it reboot twice within a half hour, just by using the guide and the new "Advance Search Feature" (aka number B).

One thing that has always bugged me about navigator is this:

From what I can gather on a technical standpoint, it's the existing boxes with SARA or passport that required an extra software 'shim' or 'layer' on top of navigator itself to run on the hardware and newer HDC boxes were natively capable of running Navigator directly.

My aunt has an SD SA8300 which originally had passport on it and now has Navigator. I have an SA8240HDC which came stock with navigator on it.

At this point it seems that the SA8300 is running CIRCLES around the 8240 in terms of not only boot time (ugh. I used to not mind reboots with passport. It's PAINFUL with navigator now at least on the HDC) but also runtime speed and stability. Not only that, but the 8300 seems to have a few extra minor features like fade in/out of the different menus and such.

It may just be some other variables thrown in to make it this way, but I find it real odd that this is the way it is currently.

Though, at this point, I'm willing to live with some of the inconveniences that Navigator brings along for the ride in lieu of available alternatives (Fight with trying to get directv and HOPE we have line of sight at our place AND get a box for each room, or pay $300 for an S3 tivo and hope the cablecard system works). I would have been perfectly happy with Passport (some of the interactive channels like the card games channel and the on screen electronic bill payment are sorely missed), but the higher ups at TWC decided to move the set top software inhouse and that's the way it is.

For the record, SARA DOES NOT BITE!!! SARA is the Rolls Royce compared to the Kia that is known as Navigator.

I try thinking happy thoughts, but I had to share. Navigator is such a POS i made it reboot twice within a half hour, just by using the guide and the new "Advance Search Feature" (aka number B).

ROFLOL!!!!

nickdawg SARA is a pos, and if Navigator is worst then that just upgraded SARA from a Yugo to a KIA and now Naviagtor is the Yugo.

But you just keep thinking happy thoughts.:D

Edit: I also just got my updates for both of my TiVos. With this update it gives it the capability to use the digital adapter for SDV.

I don't doubt that you saw an SA 8300 running Navigator. The question is did it have SARA in in previously?

I'm not sure why it matters, Hookbill. There are Navigator flavors for both the legacy 8300s as well as their newer OCAP cousins. It doesn't matter what firmware a box used to have; it's a clean slate when they push in new firmware. All of the older code is overwritten.

I'm not sure why it matters, Hookbill. There are Navigator flavors for both the legacy 8300s as well as their newer OCAP cousins. It doesn't matter what firmware a box used to have; it's a clean slate when they push in new firmware. All of the older code is overwritten.

Then why hasn't anyone had it done? Not one single report.

Now I'm not a programmer, I only have a minimal understanding of software. I understand what you say to me. But I have a suspicion that there is something in the code of the SARA software that will cause a crash if you try to push Navigator software into it. That and the fact that the hardware for the SA 8300 is really mickey mouse, compared to more sophisticated DVR's.

Then again, TiVo is going to push it's software soon into Comcast boxes and Brighthouse and a few others. Now I don't know what Brighthouse uses but I wouldn't be surprised if it was not the SA 8300. Maybe SARA will be a problem for them.

All I'm saying is I want to see one person who is in this forum who lives in the old Adelphia area that had SARA and now has navigator. At least one. Geeze there are a heck of a lot of people with these boxes. I think Jim has one and he hasn't reported in. Inundated is still got the SA 8000 with SARA. And when I check the SA 8300 SARA thread there is no one there who has had it happen to them. None. Zippo. There's got to be a reason.

Oh and FWIW the new TiVo update didn't solve the handshaking issue with DVI to HDMI. I can get around it but I'm kind of bummed about it.

They did come out however with allowing you to store your shows in folders, which they always had but now you can play or delete a folder instead of having to do it show by show.

And TiVo does have a trash bin so if you accidentally delete something, it's not gone forever. Does Navigator have that? I'm not saying that to be a smart #ss I'm just curious.

Oh and FWIW the new TiVo update didn't solve the handshaking issue with DVI to HDMI. I can get around it but I'm kind of bummed about it.

They did come out however with allowing you to store your shows in folders, which they always had but now you can play or delete a folder instead of having to do it show by show.

And TiVo does have a trash bin so if you accidentally delete something, it's not gone forever. Does Navigator have that? I'm not saying that to be a smart #ss I'm just curious.

HDMI is tricky; there are all sorts of things that can go wrong with it that will result in a blank screen or the infamous "informative display" that tells you to use your analog ports instead. Not only does the copy protection compliance have to be in place, the numerous transactions that happen during the handshake have to happen within a very narrow slice of time. Sometimes these devices fail because of small errors in the timing of those phases of handshaking (display interrogation, key exchange, key validation, etc).

Can anyone even confirm that a SA8000 has Navigator now? I can't believe those things are still out there. Now that's a POS!! I used to have one and it choked on Passport. I cannot imagine it running Navigator.

I've been away from my SA8000HD for a few days, but last I checked, it was still SARA.

I had an SA8000 before we got HD service and about a week before we switched it got bumped to navigator from passport. Both were actually pretty snappy on the hardware either way. Though there are times you could notice it was starving for ram.

In dealing with digital signals, most know it's "all or nothing" depending on the angle of the antenna I usually get 17, 27, 45 and 67 on digital (with any corresponding (multi-channels)..Much of the time 21 and 49..and sometimes 55..For a time I was getting 5 and 8, but those are quite rare..I suspect when WVPX-23 goes digital, I should get it too.

You're speaking of reception with an indoor antenna, right? Outdoor antenna reception in Canton is generally more extensive than that.

And TiVo does have a trash bin so if you accidentally delete something, it's not gone forever. Does Navigator have that? I'm not saying that to be a smart #ss I'm just curious.

Nope. But it does ask for confirmation before deleting. I prefer Tivo's method - I've often deleted something on the 8300, and decided a few minutes later I'd like to have it back... Off to the program guide I go...

You're speaking of reception with an indoor antenna, right? Outdoor antenna reception in Canton is generally more extensive than that.


rluyster:

Yes. I am working with indoor antennas..fluctuating between a Terk HDTVa and a Philips MANT510..Really wish I could get something outside..

I had an SA8000 before we got HD service and about a week before we switched it got bumped to navigator from passport. Both were actually pretty snappy on the hardware either way. Though there are times you could notice it was starving for ram.

I can't believe it. The 8000 boxes are about as bad as the old Pioneer boxes. I really wish Time Warner would just trash ALL the old BD-V1000 series boxes. They suck with Navigator. The ancient version of Passport(from around 1998) ran slow on these boxes. The navigator is full of bugs.

One thing that has always bugged me about navigator is this:

From what I can gather on a technical standpoint, it's the existing boxes with SARA or passport that required an extra software 'shim' or 'layer' on top of navigator itself to run on the hardware and newer HDC boxes were natively capable of running Navigator directly.

My aunt has an SD SA8300 which originally had passport on it and now has Navigator. I have an SA8240HDC which came stock with navigator on it.

At this point it seems that the SA8300 is running CIRCLES around the 8240 in terms of not only boot time (ugh. I used to not mind reboots with passport. It's PAINFUL with navigator now at least on the HDC) but also runtime speed and stability. Not only that, but the 8300 seems to have a few extra minor features like fade in/out of the different menus and such.

It may just be some other variables thrown in to make it this way, but I find it real odd that this is the way it is currently.

Though, at this point, I'm willing to live with some of the inconveniences that Navigator brings along for the ride in lieu of available alternatives (Fight with trying to get directv and HOPE we have line of sight at our place AND get a box for each room, or pay $300 for an S3 tivo and hope the cablecard system works). I would have been perfectly happy with Passport (some of the interactive channels like the card games channel and the on screen electronic bill payment are sorely missed), but the higher ups at TWC decided to move the set top software inhouse and that's the way it is.

Part of that is due to the fact that ALL HDC boxes have additional software to support OCAP and the multi stream cable card inside the box. I once had the pleasure:rolleyes: of using an OCAP box and it was the biggest piece of, well you know, ever. Took at least 5 minutes to boot b/c there was extra software that had to be loaded.

The funny thing is with OCAP-supporting devices and platforms like Navigator there are supposed to be more interactive features(like Startover, games and Interactive TV features) but it seems we've taken a few steps backwards from Passport. It was disappointing when they banished the card games channel after the lineup change.

Now, my required ONE NICE THING to say about navigator: At least the sidebars on SDTV channels are black, instead of grey. For such a superior operating system like Passport I'll never understand why the SD channel sidebars were grey. It really bugged me(especially on dark shows) to have BRIGHT bars on the sides. But nowhere near as much as Navigator bugs me.

Now, my required ONE NICE THING to say about navigator: At least the sidebars on SDTV channels are black, instead of grey. For such a superior operating system like Passport I'll never understand why the SD channel sidebars were grey. It really bugged me(especially on dark shows) to have BRIGHT bars on the sides. But nowhere near as much as Navigator bugs me.

IIRC on my SA 8300 SARA I had the option in the settings menu to select the color of the side bars.

rluyster:
Yes. I am working with indoor antennas..fluctuating between a Terk HDTVa and a Philips MANT510..Really wish I could get something outside..

Using the classic 4 bowtie UHF with preamp inside shooting thru a northern brick wall in North Canton and get all the Cleveland UHFs solid... sometimes 21,27 and 44 on a north pointing antenna... then a small 2 bowtie UHF with preamp shooting east which gives 21,27 sometimes 33 and 45... don't know if I'll continue getting Fox8 when they move back to VHF...
Ed...

Any D* subscribers around? I'm not getting 657-1 (STO-HD) for today's Indians game right now. It was coming in on the Extra Innings channel for about 10 minutes, but now it's gone from there too. I called tech support, but all they wanted me to do was reset the box.

They did some re-organizing today and I'm wondering if they are having some issues...

You are lucky to get KDKA-DT since it's digital signal is on rf 25. It will be easier to get KDKA-DT once WVIZ-TV signs off rf 25 for good (they are staying digital on rf 26)

1) My digital receiver locked in KDKA-DT as channel 2. Do they broadcast digitally on channel 2 and channel 25 or am I totally missing something?

2) When is WVIZ-TV signing off?

3) Is rf channel synonymous with digital channel and frequency assignment? ...Physical channel synonymous with analog channel?

4) Does ananlog/digital have anything to do with UHF/VHF?

Thanks,
Confused newbie

1) My digital receiver locked in KDKA-DT as channel 2. Do they broadcast digitally on channel 2 and channel 25 or am I totally missing something?

2) When is WVIZ-TV signing off?

3) Is rf channel synonymous with digital channel and frequency assignment? ...Physical channel synonymous with analog channel?

4) Does ananlog/digital have anything to do with UHF/VHF?

Thanks,
Confused newbie
1.) KDKA is analog on ch 2 and digital on 25 (it's impossible to transmit both on the same frequency). What you are seeing on your digital receiver is the "virtural channel". You box tells you it's CH 2-1, but in reality it's on ch 25 (at least until the end of transition next Fuburary).

2.) I don't have an exact date for the WVIZ-TV sign-off (other than Feb. 17, 2009). It may happen earlier - one station in the Cleveland DMA already shut off their analog channel (WMFD in Mansfield was analog 68. It's still virtural ch 68 but the signal is on rf ch 12).

3.) A virtural channel could be on the same channel or a diferent channel. Virtural channels are used to "brand" a channel. We'll call ch 3 ch 3 for years after the transition, however they will actually move off ch 2 and take ove ch 17 when WDLI-TV signs off their analog ch 17. This may also affect WVIZ, since WVIZ and WKYC will share the same Parma tower (now WVIZ has their analog tower in North Royalton, this tower is owned by CBS, INC. and is the primary use is for radio station WNCX-FM).

4.) Not really. WJW ch 8 will put their digital signal back on ch 8 after the transition (they are currently digital on rf ch 31). WOIO ch 19 is digital on rf ch 10 and wants to stay there (they are nuts for doing this since CFPL-TV in London Ontario will still be analog for years after the U.S. transition ends).

What will change after the transition in regards to VHF/UHF is this: Channels 52 and above will no longer be used for television broadcasting. Channels 2-6 are still available but stations on those frequencies are fleeing in droves to higher rf channels. These "low band" VHF channels are more succeptable to interference and long-distance skip. I call ch 2 the "short wave" channel since reception of channels up to 1,000 miles away can happen (I logged Miami & Houston ch 2's from Euclid!). 3 & 4 may be just as bad, it's just that with a local ch3 on the air the long-distance signals get blocked the closer you are to the transmitters (and a real pain to those in the fringe areas). 5 & 6 suffer from static interference mostly. The best channels to be on are the "High band" VHF 7 - 13. This is why WOIO/Raycom wants to stay on ch 10. Unfortunatley they should have never been on 10 in the first place. Too close to Canada - the analog ch 10 was like a local station to many in Lake & Ashtabula Counties. CFPL does not have to "protect" WOIO-DT, however WOIO-DT has to protect CFPL (they were there first). the digital Ch 10 should have stayed in Columbus and not been used in Cleveland.

someone told me I should set the box for ONLY 1080i output as it will give you the best Standard picture and HD picture..

any truth to that ??

Right now I have it set on Auto so its based on the feed from the Station..Standards at 480i and HD at 720p or 1080i depending on what the station output is..

Just curious

someone told me I should set the box for ONLY 1080i output as it will give you the best Standard picture and HD picture..

any truth to that ??

Right now I have it set on Auto so its based on the feed from the Station..Standards at 480i and HD at 720p or 1080i depending on what the station output is..

Just curious

This has been discussed at length in various threads both on this forum and possible others. The general consensus is to try both ways (a: set the box to 'auto' or 'passthrough' to give the tv set the native resolution of each broadcast and let it do the conversion and b: set the box to 1080i and let the box do the conversion for each channel) and see which looks better to your eyes.

Though in all honesty, unless you have something like a tivo or maybe one of the higher end FiOS boxes, the tv is most likely going to do a better conversion job. I have an SA8240HDC running Mystro here and it does a real lousy job actually.

Again, it depends on your eyes. Try yourself and see what looks best.

someone told me I should set the box for ONLY 1080i output as it will give you the best Standard picture and HD picture..

any truth to that ??

Right now I have it set on Auto so its based on the feed from the Station..Standards at 480i and HD at 720p or 1080i depending on what the station output is..

Just curious

No that's a bunch of crap. You set it for what you like.

While it will convert the picture you will be stuck with everything with side bars. What you should set it up for is what works best for you.

When I had the SA 8300 the techs only knew how to set it up for 1080i. I went on line and found out how to do the set up. I suppose they are smarter then that now.

Anyway if you have a 720p HD TV and you set it for 1080i your set will just reconvert it to 720p.

Anyway if you have a 720p HD TV and you set it for 1080i your set will just reconvert it to 720p.

More nitpicking than anything, but keep in mind that the image processor in the set may not follow the native resolution of the panel. One good example is the 2008 model Panny's. I have the 42" px80 myself and in the thread in this very same forum it's been determined that while the native panel resolution is only 1024x768p, the image processor scales/deinterlaces all signals up to 1080p, no exceptions, and then scales that back down to the native 1024x768 so in a case like this it'd be smart to feed it 1080 IF you decide to go the single res/settop conversion route even though the set is TECHNICALLY 720p (they do market it as 1080p, but that's besides the point).

But yes, what looks best to your eyes is what you should go with. Though if you feed the set a single resolution and let the box convert everything, you are at the mercy of the software on the settop and what image controls they give you. Some can stretch the picture and eliminate pillarboxing, others cant.

More nitpicking than anything, but keep in mind that the image processor in the set may not follow the native resolution of the panel. One good example is the 2008 model Panny's. I have the 42" px80 myself and in the thread in this very same forum it's been determined that while the native panel resolution is only 1024x768p, the image processor scales/deinterlaces all signals up to 1080p, no exceptions, and then scales that back down to the native 1024x768 so in a case like this it'd be smart to feed it 1080 IF you decide to go the single res/settop conversion route even though the set is TECHNICALLY 720p (they do market it as 1080p, but that's besides the point).

But yes, what looks best to your eyes is what you should go with. Though if you feed the set a single resolution and let the box convert everything, you are at the mercy of the software on the settop and what image controls they give you. Some can stretch the picture and eliminate pillarboxing, others cant.

If I had a set that had native progressive I would probably set ithe box for progressive.

When I had my Sony WEGA if I set the box to 1080i, which is what was native to the Sony I was stuck with side bars. TiVo has a few different type of settings. It offers Native, which sounds similar to the Navigator. It allows the TV to deal with whatever signal comes in. It has 1080i and 720p hybrid which depending on what you pick will convert the HD signal to your setting and any 480i to 480p. Then it has 1080i, 720p, 480i, and 480p fixed. Why anyone would pick 480i or 480p as a fixed signal, I don't know.

I set both of my tv's to 720p hybrid. I could leave the LG at Native but it takes too long to convert the signals. And since I use a DVI to HDMI converter on my little 19" Sanyo I have to use 720p because it won't receive 480i.

someone told me I should set the box for ONLY 1080i output as it will give you the best Standard picture and HD picture..

any truth to that ??

Right now I have it set on Auto so its based on the feed from the Station..Standards at 480i and HD at 720p or 1080i depending on what the station output is..

Just curious

I'd leave it on 1080i. It actually looks better that way. I've tried all the available output formats and 480p/480i looked like garbage. Even the guide and channel banner looked worse on the lower resolution. The picture looked worse as well. I have a 1080i TV and have fond that all channels look better on 1080i output. Plus, 480i results in funny looking sidebars. They seem more skinny than HD channels and 720/1080 output.

Another thing I've noticed is that TV is very right-leaning(and I'm not talking about politics). The sidebars on SDTV channels look asymmetrical. The left sidebar is wider than the right. Watching the News Hour on WNEO shown in letterbox, I tried using the resize setting to make the 16x9 LB fit the 16x9 full screen and when 4:3 content was shown, the pattern bars from the show were uneven. Just seems odd that there's extra space to the left.

The only WRONG move you can make is setting 4:3 channels to STRETCH. Stretchovision looks like crap.

I'd leave it on 1080i. It actually looks better that way. I've tried all the available output formats and 480p/480i looked like garbage. Even the guide and channel banner looked worse on the lower resolution. The picture looked worse as well. I have a 1080i TV and have fond that all channels look better on 1080i output. Plus, 480i results in funny looking sidebars. They seem more skinny than HD channels and 720/1080 output.

Another thing I've noticed is that TV is very right-leaning(and I'm not talking about politics). The sidebars on SDTV channels look asymmetrical. The left sidebar is wider than the right. Watching the News Hour on WNEO shown in letterbox, I tried using the resize setting to make the 16x9 LB fit the 16x9 full screen and when 4:3 content was shown, the pattern bars from the show were uneven. Just seems odd that there's extra space to the left.

The only WRONG move you can make is setting 4:3 channels to STRETCH. Stretchovision looks like crap.

I will have to try that tomorrow..I have my box set at Full screen. Not sure what the best setting is .

Would be nice if you could set the Standard channels at 1080i but let the few HD ones we get from TW to be Auto depending on the feed.

I don't use any side bars when Watching Standard channels...maybe thats why I am not pleased with the Standard picture I get..guess my feeling..if I paid for a 50" TV...I want to enjoy the whole screen

thanks again Nick and have a good weekend

marty

.......I don't use any side bars when Watching Standard channels...maybe thats why I am not pleased with the Standard picture I get..guess my feeling..if I paid for a 50" TV...I want to enjoy the whole screen..............

marty

Me either with sidebars. Particularly with plasmas as regular side bar use can be a big problem down the road with premature or uneven screen wear.

Unfortunately inaccurate "full screen" is common in HDTV's. Using full screen my NEC is very accurate but my Panny is not nearly as accurate and is noticeably different (unnaturally stretched). :(

I will have to try that tomorrow..I have my box set at Full screen. Not sure what the best setting is .



The best setting is what looks and works best for you.

I almost hate to ask this but nickdawg, when you put it on the native mode (allow the tv to decide) how long does it take before the resolutions change like going form 480i to 1080i?

Anyone may feel free to reply. My TiVo S3 is very slow with the handshaking, I'd say there is a good 1 to two second wait, and yes I know that isn't long but it seems long. When I have it on 720p Hybrid it's a bit quicker. If I put it on 720p fixed there is no delay but then there is the side bars.

until recently, a good number of stations were carried via unencrypted qam. now, they are being scrambled. local channels are still available unscrambled.

now scrambled stations that weren't previously include
TBS
TNT
STO
FSNOH
HDNET
DHT

I'm hoping it's temporary, but I doubt it.

Threads merged.

I can't believe it. The 8000 boxes are about as bad as the old Pioneer boxes. I really wish Time Warner would just trash ALL the old BD-V1000 series boxes. They suck with Navigator. The ancient version of Passport(from around 1998) ran slow on these boxes. The navigator is full of bugs.
Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree there. I remember owning one YEARS back on my bedroom tv when it was just running barebones passport, not even the 'echo' edition. Even then it felt like I had an old 386 hooked up to my tv trying to churn along a 32 bit gui. I can hardly bare to imagine how Navigator would handle on those things.
Part of that is due to the fact that ALL HDC boxes have additional software to support OCAP and the multi stream cable card inside the box. I once had the pleasure:rolleyes: of using an OCAP box and it was the biggest piece of, well you know, ever. Took at least 5 minutes to boot b/c there was extra software that had to be loaded.

The funny thing is with OCAP-supporting devices and platforms like Navigator there are supposed to be more interactive features(like Startover, games and Interactive TV features) but it seems we've taken a few steps backwards from Passport. It was disappointing when they banished the card games channel after the lineup change.

Now, my required ONE NICE THING to say about navigator: At least the sidebars on SDTV channels are black, instead of grey. For such a superior operating system like Passport I'll never understand why the SD channel sidebars were grey. It really bugged me(especially on dark shows) to have BRIGHT bars on the sides. But nowhere near as much as Navigator bugs me.
It's funny. You'd think the native ocap boxes would run much better than their hack-requiring brethren.

But yeah. It's definitely a step backwards all things considered. When the original handout about Navigator came floating around in the mail, it stated something about having a 'larger games selection' and an 'ebay channel' on top of being told by a local tech that the on screen payment application was going to return after navigator settled in. All of this was slated for Q3/Q4 2008 according to what I recall. I'm still waiting for a sign of ANY upgrades.

At this rate I am highly tempted to get rid of TWC for tv service on our living room plasma and go with DirecTV for that and leave the other 2 analog sets on cable with phone and HSI still remaining with Time Warner. I've been willing to give them quite a bit of leeway so far, but little things keep popping up here and there where it's like they couldn't give two shits about their paying customers. HSI and digital phone is GREAT here. But tv service is lackluster between of Navigator's problems and the anemic HD selection.

Only thing that is holding me back from making the switch is the hatred for any kind of contracts which seems you are forced into with D*. Last time we did anything with contracts was with Embarq here while they were still sprint. Decided 6 months in to a 1yr contract they wanted to randomly remove our dsl service and then foot us with both the early cancellation fee and reconnection fee which came close to about $300-$350. All because some idiot employee couldn't get their **** in order. Sprint lost a customer REAL quick there.

until recently, a good number of stations were carried via unencrypted qam. now, they are being scrambled. local channels are still available unscrambled.

now scrambled stations that weren't previously include
TBS
TNT
STO
FSNOH
HDNET
DHT

I'm hoping it's temporary, but I doubt it.

Yep this happened to a couple of us on the boards (and I presume everyone on TWC) about 1-1/2 weeks ago, and I haven't seen them come back. If you also notice, they re-mapped many of the "0" channels. Maybe someone went in to do that, and noticed all the unencyrpted stuff and said, that ain't right.

Yep this happened to a couple of us on the boards (and I presume everyone on TWC) about 1-1/2 weeks ago, and I haven't seen them come back. If you also notice, they re-mapped many of the "0" channels. Maybe someone went in to do that, and noticed all the unencyrpted stuff and said, that ain't right.

I called and logged a complaint, but it won't do any good. they didn't understand how I could get HD channels on a TV without a set top box.

at least they left the locals unencrypted

I apologize for the off-topic right off the bat (although it does involve TWC so...)

I came home from work about 6:00pm yesterday to find my roadrunner motorola sufboard's send light slowly blinking, and of course the internet didn't work.

I had stuff to do around the house, and still 1-1/2 hours later didn't work, so I called TWC for billing issues, and also mentioned the no internet thing. She scheduled a truck roll for next Tues. Not wanting to go all weekend without the net, I called RR national helpline. That was also useless, with them claiming there were no outages, must be my line or modem.

Fast forward to this morning at work, I check help.rr.com, network status page. It lists a "red" outage for

TWC-NEO-OHIO, 7/31/08 3:38:56 PM

http://help.rr.com/HMSLogic/network_status.aspx (I don't know if that link will work or not since its asp)

Why in the world did they not just tell me that? Anyone else having issues? It was still "broken" this morning when I left for work.

I called and logged a complaint, but it won't do any good. they didn't understand how I could get HD channels on a TV without a set top box.

at least they left the locals unencrypted

haha yeah that doesn't surprise me. Probably less than 5% of the CSR's would know what a qam tuner is and how it works. Legally they have to provide the locals (although its an argument whether its the SD or HD feed) unencrypted, but they don't have to provide the others, so unfortunately we don't have any legal ground to stand on complaining we don't get those (bonus) channels any more.

Yep this happened to a couple of us on the boards (and I presume everyone on TWC) about 1-1/2 weeks ago, and I haven't seen them come back. If you also notice, they re-mapped many of the "0" channels. Maybe someone went in to do that, and noticed all the unencyrpted stuff and said, that ain't right.

It was only a matter of time before the cable companies would remove subscription channels in "Clear QAM". There was only a small percentage of HDTVs with clear QAM tuners in the marketplace until recently. They will leave locals in the clear because they are required. Now that more than 50% of new TVs are equipped with clear QAM tuners it would have begun to significantly interfere with their sales of HD tiers. Whoever thought they were getting one up on the cable companies with their HDTV with in the clear QAM tuners will now need to buy an HD tier to recieve HD cable. Pay up! The party is over.

Ray

Me either with sidebars. Particularly with plasmas as regular side bar use can be a big problem down the road with premature or uneven screen wear.

Unfortunately inaccurate "full screen" is common in HDTV's. Using full screen my NEC is very accurate but my Panny is not nearly as accurate and is noticeably different (unnaturally stretched). :(

The screen wear isn't too bad. As a Plasma viewer, I still use sidebars on non-HD programming(which I watch a majority of the time) and the screen wear isn't too bad. That may be a subjective answer, but keeping a watchable, unstretched picture kinda outweighs burn in. The only times it is really noticeable is on widescreen programming that is bright, like a white background.

...and I've had the set for about two years, so I'll have to see how it is down the road.

The TV itself does a horrible job. The result is the "funhouse mirror" effect. The cable box isn't much better(circles still look oval).

I've been pretty happy with my Samsung plasma. I let the box feed it native resolutions, and I usually watch SD material stretched. (Although I don't watch much SD anymore with the great HD selection we get on Armstrong ;)) I used to absolutely hate stretch-o-vision, but I was so worried about image retention that I got used to it. It's now to the point that I don't even notice it.

I have an el-cheapo Visio LCD in my bedroom, and I actually use the panoramic stretch feature. Again, I've gotten used to it. It's the worst-of-the-worst in terms of the funhouse mirror effect, but that set is usually just for background noise while I'm going to sleep anyway.

until recently, a good number of stations were carried via unencrypted qam. now, they are being scrambled. local channels are still available unscrambled.

now scrambled stations that weren't previously include
TBS
TNT
STO
FSNOH
HDNET
DHT

I'm hoping it's temporary, but I doubt it.

Here is what we get free with Time Warner Amherst, OH
NBC HD 84-1
UPN HD 84-2
CBS HD 85-1
OHIO 85-2
PBS HD 85-3
WVIZ-ED 85-4
TBS HD 88-1
WEATHER PLUS 104-6
FIRST ALERT WEATHER 104-8
MOJO 105-2
FOX HD 110-1
ABC HD 110-2
CW HD 116-1
HD SPORTS 116-3
Plus the analogs. Note: these channels numbers defer slightly from my Sony TV to my Toshiba.

I apologize for the off-topic right off the bat (although it does involve TWC so...)

I came home from work about 6:00pm yesterday to find my roadrunner motorola sufboard's send light slowly blinking, and of course the internet didn't work.

I had stuff to do around the house, and still 1-1/2 hours later didn't work, so I called TWC for billing issues, and also mentioned the no internet thing. She scheduled a truck roll for next Tues. Not wanting to go all weekend without the net, I called RR national helpline. That was also useless, with them claiming there were no outages, must be my line or modem.

Fast forward to this morning at work, I check help.rr.com, network status page. It lists a "red" outage for

TWC-NEO-OHIO, 7/31/08 3:38:56 PM

http://help.rr.com/HMSLogic/network_status.aspx (I don't know if that link will work or not since its asp)

Why in the world did they not just tell me that? Anyone else having issues? It was still "broken" this morning when I left for work.

How are your TV channels? Are any of the analogs snowy? This will offer a clue as to whether it's a signal level issue.

now scrambled stations that weren't previously include
TBS
TNT
STO
FSNOH
HDNET
DHT


These channels are not supposed to be in the clear, ever. The only channels REQUIRED to be in the clear are local OTA broadcast channels(SD and HD). The fact these channels were in the clear must have been a mistake from the changes being made to the system. I would not expect them to come back.

At one time I had HBO HD, Showtime HD and HDNET in the clear, but they disappeared.

Did this thread die ?
No activity since 8-1
I will mention that Timewarner in former Adelphia area added 4 HD channels for olympics including USA HD (now Psych, Monk and Burn Notice in HD)
hurray
Dave

Oh, well... I'm trying to think if anything important got lost with the AVS Forum crash (see the home page for details). Please, let's not repeat the Olympics complaints!!!!

Check the home page (avsforum.com). Board crashed and they didn't have a recent backup. Everything went back to August 1st.


Did this thread die ?
No activity since 8-1
I will mention that Timewarner in former Adelphia area added 4 HD channels for olympics including USA HD (now Psych, Monk and Burn Notice in HD)
hurray
Dave

Oh, well... I'm trying to think if anything important got lost with the AVS Forum crash (see the home page for details). Please, let's not repeat the Olympics complaints!!!!

Maybe not important to you, but important to others. I still say everyone in America should be able to watch the Olympic Games free of charge. :rolleyes:

Maybe not important to you, but important to others. I still say everyone in America should be able to watch the Olympic Games free of charge. :rolleyes:

Ugh! Not to start the debate again, but EVERYONE CAN WATCH OLYMPICS FOR FREE!!! It's called NBC and it is an OTA network. Plus, there's tons of events streaming online--for free!

OTA does not even come close to getting all the televised Olympic Games, and not everyone has blazing fast high speed broadband :rolleyes:. ...not to mention that broadband is not free... hell, it's not even cheap.

OTA does not even come close to getting all the televised Olympic Games, and not everyone has blazing fast high speed broadband :rolleyes:. ...not to mention that broadband is not free... hell, it's not even cheap.

Now back to what we were talking about. Not EVERYBODY gets the Olympics. If you just have cable hooked up to the TV then you don't get digital. If you don't get digital then you don't get the HD channels.

Unless you know more then I do. Are they shoing them on analog?

Now back to what we were talking about. Not EVERYBODY gets the Olympics. If you just have cable hooked up to the TV then you don't get digital. If you don't get digital then you don't get the HD channels.

Unless you know more then I do. Are they shoing them on analog?

Huh? :confused:

Maybe I just haven't read the past half dozen posts on the subject thoroughly enough, but I don't think anyone had explicitly limited the whole 'Getting the Olympics' bit to just HD broadcasting. Fact is 1) You can get it OTA Analog just fine via local NBC affiliates. 2) If you have cable, you can also receive the Olympics via all the channels that NBC broadcasts the games on that TWC offers in SD analog (NBC, USA, Bravo, and CNBC to name the ones off the top of my head.).

This is, of course, in addition to what you can get via OTA HD, Digital SD on cable, and every single HD channel that TWC is currently offering to view the Olympics.

So unless I'm missing something, EVERYONE can get the Olympics in some fashion. Granted, by the very nature of the beast, you can't have EVERY game contained therein broadcast in a timely manner on a single station and, as such, is why it's all being broadcasted on half a dozen different channels. If you are stuck with OTA via either SD or HD, you are stuck with what's on the local NBC affiliates. For cable customers, you get what is broadcast on every NBC/U owned channel during the specificed Olympics timeslots (barring your local region/cableco and which of these channels they offer and in what tier. NEO Time Warner has everything but UniversalHD on all packages from the basic analog tier on up.)

Apparently some of the opening fireworks were CGI (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Beijing-Olympics-Opening-Ceremony-Faked-Firework-Footprints-Added-For-TV/Article/200808215075291?lpos=World%2BNews_3&lid=ARTICLE_15075291_Beijing%2BOlympics%2BOpening%2BCeremony %2BFaked%253A%2BFirework%2BFootprints%2BAdded%2BFor%2BTV)

Huh? :confused:

Maybe I just haven't read the past half dozen posts on the subject thoroughly enough, but I don't think anyone had explicitly limited the whole 'Getting the Olympics' bit to just HD broadcasting. Fact is 1) You can get it OTA Analog just fine via local NBC affiliates. 2) If you have cable, you can also receive the Olympics via all the channels that NBC broadcasts the games on that TWC offers in SD analog (NBC, USA, Bravo, and CNBC to name the ones off the top of my head.).

This is, of course, in addition to what you can get via OTA HD, Digital SD on cable, and every single HD channel that TWC is currently offering to view the Olympics.

So unless I'm missing something, EVERYONE can get the Olympics in some fashion. Granted, by the very nature of the beast, you can't have EVERY game contained therein broadcast in a timely manner on a single station and, as such, is why it's all being broadcasted on half a dozen different channels. If you are stuck with OTA via either SD or HD, you are stuck with what's on the local NBC affiliates. For cable customers, you get what is broadcast on every NBC/U owned channel during the specificed Olympics timeslots (barring your local region/cableco and which of these channels they offer and in what tier. NEO Time Warner has everything but UniversalHD on all packages from the basic analog tier on up.)


Well, I subscribe to TW basic and i get channel 3... that's it and that's all. I suppose an arguement could be submized to say that I could errect an antenna and get more.
The whole basis of the discussion was that... since TW is opening up FREE channels for the soul purpose of giving subscribers the opportunity to view the Olympics, then they should do it for ALL their customers. Literally all they would have to do is flip a switch. Just like when every once in a while, when they had free HBO weekends to promote HBO and try to get people to subscribe to HBO. I'd get HBO just like every other channel, and NO, I did NOT have a box.

You just said you subscribe to Time Warner's basic(2-18 I assume). There's your problem. You get what you pay for. If you paid for the higher service(analog expanded basic or Digital) you'd get more. I get, scratch that, I PAY for the Digital HDTV service, so I get USA, BBall/Soccer and now Universal HD. I'd be pretty p*$$ed if those channels were going to those NOT paying for additional service plus a box.

And broadband is not that expensive. I pay $20 with AT&T and streaming content works just fine. I was watching Judo the other day as well as replays of last night's swimming.

You just said you subscribe to Time Warner's basic(2-18 I assume). There's your problem. You get what you pay for. If you paid for the higher service(analog expanded basic or Digital) you'd get more. I get, scratch that, I PAY for the Digital HDTV service, so I get USA, BBall/Soccer and now Universal HD. I'd be pretty p*$$ed if those channels were going to those NOT paying for additional service plus a box.

And broadband is not that expensive. I pay $20 with AT&T and streaming content works just fine. I was watching Judo the other day as well as replays of last night's swimming.

I pay for service too. The channels are supposed to be FREE, not channels given to you because you're stupid enough to pay TW $100+ every month. If they are free channels for subscribers, they should be free channels for ALL subscribers. Who the hell died and made you the boss of who gets free channels and who doesn't. Get over yourself.

At this point you are merely splitting hairs just to get your own point across. But I'll go ahead and humor you:

These HD channels are 'digital'. You are not paying for 'digital cable', but rather 'basic analog cable'. Do you really expect to be favored in this respect? If TW really wanted to be absolutely anal, they could go around and place traps on the lines of those not subscribing to digital service to block the upper frequencies carrying QAM content. Would you prefer that?

As it stands, there is no regulation ANYWHERE saying that they MUST carry all of their digital channels unencrypted. Technically even local affiliates don't need to be according to the FCC. They just need to carry them on an analog tier. TW is completely in it's right here as far as I am concerned.

If you want to be cheap, no one is stopping you. But quit complaining about stuff you shouldn't be receiving in the first place.

I've about given up on this one. Vchat is correct. I know which package is in question here. The "Lifeline Basic" tier that includes channels 2-18 plus they may throw in up to 23 as well since NEON is their local channel. This package does not even include analog USA, CNBC or MSNBC. So why should Time Warner give HD channels to customers who don't even pay for the analog versions?

I remember hearing about this package in the news a few years back. Sportstime Ohio used to be time-shared with NEON until it moved to 76. Around that time all the cheap arses were whining about not getting STO in the super-cheap package. You get what you pay for.

You people are about as dense as a brick as brick wall. You totally do NOT get the point AT ALL! :rolleyes:

I want to see the Olympic games. TW has made this possible by giving temporary FREE channels to those with boxes. Could easily be done for those without. Not looking for a free lunch. Not being a cheap-ass because I do not want to pay for hundreds of channels that I will never watch. Would not care if it were sd or hd, although obviously hd would be nice. I'm not complaining about stuff I should not be getting. I deserve to get it as much as ANY subscriber.

I have absolutely no idea what NEON is, and I have never had Sportstime Ohio since I have had Lifeline Basic for 4 years. Who the hell said anything about that stuff anyway. :confused::rolleyes:

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused:



If the 1,200 hours of Olympic coverage scheduled to air on NBC Universal's seven networks aren't enough for you, Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio is going a step further to give you a fix.

The cable service announced Tuesday it will offer free on-demand Olympic programming, expanded HD service and broadband content from NBCOlympics.com via a link from Time Warner Cable's Road Runner Web site.

Its Games Free on Demand will feature daily highlights and access to the best events each day. There will be overall daily highlights by sport — about 15 per day, some in HD — and Rewind — about 10 of the best sessions/games per day. Standard definition on demand will be available through the Sports on Demand portal (digital Channel 512) and high definition will be available through HD Showcase on Demand (digital Channel 479). Programming will be available on demand Sunday through Aug. 30.

Time Warner Cable will make Universal HD (digital Channel 470) a free HD channel for the duration of the Olympics. Universal HD will provide high-definition coverage of select events broadcast on MSNBC and CNBC.

Time Warner Cable will have additional HD coverage of the Olympics on the following:

• NBC HD: 225 hours.

• USA HD (temporarily Channel 450 for Olympics only): 165 hours.

• Olympics Basketball HD (temporarily Channel 451): 12 hours a day.

• Olympics Soccer HD (temporarily Channel 452): 12 hours a day.

Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio spokesman Joe Richardson said the cable company has no plans to add USA HD as a full-time channel after the Olympics.

According to a news release from Time Warner, the digital channel positions listed above reflect those in realigned areas. Analog Basic channels will vary by area.


Before I go, I'll post this. The article from the Beacon where the TWC suit explains what is being added. On Demand content as well as USA, UHD and BB/Soccer on the 450s channels. As in this is for customers with boxes. You can only get On Demand and the HD channels in the 400s(other than local) with a box. They said nothing about anything else.

Not being mean or anything but I'd like to know why you're "entitled" to USA HD and the channel carrying CNBC/MSNBC HD if you don't even get them in SD? Why should someone paying basic only get channels that require a converter and digital service? THAT does not seem fair. Unless Time Warner wants to give EVERYONE free service for this month. :D

I'll try to speak more slowly ...


TW is opening up all those channels temporarily for FREE to customers with Warner boxes. I believe that ALL TW subscribers should be entitled to see all of the Olympic Games. Why do you think that you deserve the FREE channels and I do not? ...because your cable bill is more every month?
Why does it not seem fair? Free is free is free is free. No one is getting shafted. It would be free Olympics for EVERYONE. I don't get how that would be unfair.

Because it's NOT free when you have to have the digital cable tier to receive them. Simple as that. It's just as if they added more permanent HD channels to the lineup that remained encrypted. Do you think you'd be entitled to those as well?

Because it's NOT free when you have to have the digital cable tier to receive them. Simple as that. It's just as if they added more permanent HD channels to the lineup that remained encrypted. Do you think you'd be entitled to those as well?

Ok, I get it now. You think that anything that comes into the system is due you because you pay for digital service. Well, it's not my fault that you're dumb enough to overpay for the crap they DO have, and are left in the dark for the stuff they don't. THAT has nothing to do with them offering free temporary channels so subscribers can see the Olympic Games.
It's NOT "as if they added more permenant HD channels", becuse that is NOT what is going on. ...simple as that... :rolleyes:

Now you are clearly bitching just to be bitching about Time Warner's business practices. Give it up. You're heading down a steep slope here.

YES, it is fairly rediculous to be paying so much for so little. But I do anyways in lieu of alternatives. It's the way TW runs things and they are entitled to do so.

If you have such a problem, jump ship and go to Dish or DTV or stuff it. That simple.

Who is bitching about business practices? What ARE you even talking about?
No, the topic is STILL the same.
Pay attention now, don't drift away again. Are you with me?
I want to watch the Olympics.
Nevermind, at least you tried...

Yeah. I tried. I guess my Comprehension skills are just way too advanced to understand your line of reasoning. I'll stop trying.

maybe advanced BEYOND comprehension...
run along now...

I want to watch the Olympics.


Turn on WKYC channel 3.

Tell me what you are watching?

If you're not happy with TWC, there's always D*, E*, U-verse or OTA.

Or you could just get a better cable package.

And yes, I do deserve these channels. I PAY FOR THEM!! So does Vchat. If you subscribe to Digital Service plus and HDTV cable box, you get the channels. Simple as that. If you're SUBSCRIBE to Lifeline Basic, then you get whatever is in that tier. Last time I checked, USA, CNBC and MSNBC were NOT part of that tier.

Just imagine you did spend around $100 a month for limited HD choices plus the equipment. You spend ~$100 a month to get HD channels plus the ones added. Now think that some freeloader(yes, that's what it's like!) pays ONLY for Lifeline Basic but is still getting national HD cable channels PLUS the Olympic channels. That person is paying Lifeline Basic costs and getting all that and I'm paying FULL PRICE for DIGITAL SERVICE. What's wrong with that picture?

SO what it is the Olympics. Does that mean cable should "open the lines" for every big event? What about the Super Bowl? Or the Oscars? Or the US Open? Or the MTV Awards? Maybe they should also let people without boxes get this weekend's WWE PPV event for free as well. Let the people with boxes pay but those who freeload digital TV get it for free because they are "entitled to it".

<sarcasmon>
It's funny you start calling us idiots for paying $100+ to TW when it's a comparable price to what other providers charge for similar programming and then you pull out the patriotism card for the stinking Olympics. If you aren't willing to part with your hard earned money at the whims of the capitalist government, you, sir, are no patriot.
</sarcasmoff>

Anyways, I am clearly done on this subject. As far as I am concerned you can just keep on complaining till you turn blue in the face or till the olympics are over; Whiever comes first. Not gonna shed a tear that you can't get your precious channels that you so rightly deserve, your highness.

Now can we get back on the actual topic here?

TW is opening up all those channels temporarily for FREE to customers with Warner boxes. Free is free is free is free.
This misconception seems to be at the root of your confusion. T/W is not giving anything away for free. They are simply adding some additional channels this month for those who pay for certain packages. If you pay for those packages, you get the extra channels. If you don't, well, then you don't.

Pretty simple. There's nothing "free" about it.

BTW, I don't like paying T/W all this money every month either. But I do it because I like what they provide in exchange for all that money.

Your premise that watching the Olympics should be free for all US citizens is an interesting one. Send it off to your favorite presidential candidate - maybe you can get it added to the party platform. ;)

There's no way to win this argument. In one of the lost messages he talked about how it's all about the almighty dollar. Of course, that's what its ALL about! NBC is spending a fortune to televise the Olympics and of course they have to recoup the costs and make a profit. If I owned stock in the company, I would expect them to do so.
Frankly, I read a lot of forums and it always seems to be the television boards (here and DBSTalk) that contain the most complaints, as if TV is a necessity instead of a luxury...

OK, Gentlemen. Let's calm down first. The system went down and the previous conversations I had with Smarty-Pants, who is a good guy seem to have exploded due to misunderstanding. Let's stop the name calling and all that OK?

Now, Smarty-Pants the question I originally asked before the AVS Forum went down and lost all our post was because I don't understand how QAM worked was do you pay for digital? In the course of the answers you said you pay for lifeline basic.

Now that answered my question.

In my post prior to the wipe out I said I don't want to get into judgement of what is "stealing" or anything like that. As far as I'm concerned if you can get digital channels via QAM then that's fine. I said TW screws us all the time if somebody screws them back I don't care. That post got lost with the mess that happened over the weekend.

It is not possible for someone who has lifeline basic without QAM to get digital channels, at least to the best of my knowledge.

So when you said that they promised it free to all subscribers, you have to understand they were talking about digital subscribers. And It doesn't cost 100.00 for digital but that's besides the point. The point is that unless you have QAM and you're the average joe with basic lifeline who goes from cable to the wall can't get those stations.

And when TW says HD is free, not exactly. It's free with digital subscription as someone else pointed out above. I know in their commercials they say HD is free, but you would need digital which means either a box or cable cards. nickdawg points that out in his post.

So if they are hiding it from you on QAM somehow or blocking it, that is their right. Technically they don't even have to give you local HD without digital because HD is digital.

So be happy with what you got. You are getting what you have for free. That's all I'm saying. If you can't get a certain channel it's not "BS" it's just the way it is.

The price for their Digital Value Service beyond the 2 year period they are currently locking people into (yes, they are now contracting) is 45.95. That is for basic digital. HD comes free with that. The 2 year package is 29.95 and from what I read they lock you into it. That also includes their phone, I think.

OK, Gentlemen. Let's calm down first. The system went down and the previous conversations I had with Smarty-Pants, who is a good guy seem to have exploded due to misunderstanding. Let's stop the name calling and all that OK?

Now, Smarty-Pants the question I originally asked before the AVS Forum went down and lost all our post was because I don't understand how QAM worked was do you pay for digital? In the course of the answers you said you pay for lifeline basic.

Now that answered my question.

In my post prior to the wipe out I said I don't want to get into judgement of what is "stealing" or anything like that. As far as I'm concerned if you can get digital channels via QAM then that's fine. I said TW screws us all the time if somebody screws them back I don't care. That post got lost with the mess that happened over the weekend.
I'm not stealing anything Hook. I subscribe to lifeline, and that's what I PAY for. I could just go out and take the filters off the line. It would be very easy, I know how to do it, but I'm not like that.


It is not possible for someone who has lifeline basic without QAM to get digital channels, at least to the best of my knowledge.

So when you said that they promised it free to all subscribers, you have to understand they were talking about digital subscribers. And It doesn't cost 100.00 for digital but that's besides the point. The point is that unless you have QAM and you're the average joe with basic lifeline who goes from cable to the wall can't get those stations.
So give me the stations in SD... I don't care. I deserve to see the Olympics as much as everyone else, no matter what "package" I have. That is MY opinion, which obviously is in the extreme miniority.

And when TW says HD is free, not exactly. It's free with digital subscription as someone else pointed out above. I know in their commercials they say HD is free, but you would need digital which means either a box or cable cards. nickdawg points that out in his post.

So if they are hiding it from you on QAM somehow or blocking it, that is their right. Technically they don't even have to give you local HD without digital because HD is digital.
I diagree. TW seems to be interpreting the law the same way as I do... that they have to provide the local channels in digital along side the sd. Again, that's MY opinion and interpretation that I am entitled to same as everyone else. So, that when interpreting the law in that manner, I would then become a digital subscriber, thus meaning I SHOULD get the free channels.
If you can provide the (current) documention from Time Warner, that my service is restricted to ANALOG ONLY, then I will relent that statement.

So be happy with what you got. You are getting what you have for free. That's all I'm saying. If you can't get a certain channel it's not "BS" it's just the way it is.
I am not getting anything for free. I pay for my service just like everyone else.

[qoute=hookbill]The price for their Digital Value Service beyond the 2 year period they are currently locking people into (yes, they are now contracting) is 45.95. That is for basic digital. HD comes free with that. The 2 year package is 29.95 and from what I read they lock you into it. That also includes their phone, I think.[/quote]
Now add in 4 boxes for my house, 3 of them HD... taxes... fees... fess on top of taxes... taxes on top of fees :rolleyes:.

I'm not stealing anything Hook. I subscribe to lifeline, and that's what I PAY for. I could just go out and take the filters off the line. It would be very easy, I know how to do it, but I'm not like that.

Did you not see the part where it said I don't want to get into that? Give me a break dude, I'm on your side on this.



So give me the stations in SD... I don't care. I deserve to see the Olympics as much as everyone else, no matter what "package" I have. That is MY opinion, which obviously is in the extreme miniority.

You're entitled to your opinion.


I diagree. TW seems to be interpreting the law the same way as I do... that they have to provide the local channels in digital along side the sd. Again, that's MY opinion and interpretation that I am entitled to same as everyone else. So, that when interpreting the law in that manner, I would then become a digital subscriber, thus meaning I SHOULD get the free channels.

You're entitled to your opininon. You just happen to be wrong. That law applies only to local channels. USA is not a local channel, and neither is Universal.

If you can provide the (current) documention from Time Warner, that my service is restricted to ANALOG ONLY, then I will relent that statement.


It's in the rate guide (http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208/TWNEO5935SuburbanCleveland3MigrationLU022008.pdf). You need expanded basic and digital service.

Basic Service..................................................... .. $9.45
Standard Service (Basic and Expanded Basic)..................$53.00

DIGITAL CABLE
Digital Basic Tier........................................$5.00/month
Digital Choice Tier.....................................$5.00/month
Digital Movie Tier.......................................$5.00/month
Digital Sports Tier......................................$5.00/month
HDTV Tier.................................................$5.00/month
Spanish Language Tier...............................$5.00/month
Digital Equipment required to receive any Digital
service. Subscription to any Digital Tier includes
Digital Music Choice, Interactive On-Screen Guide, and
access to Video On Demand.

I am not getting anything for free. I pay for my service just like everyone else.

Yes you pay for it. But you don't pay as much as other people do. I'm not being judgemental here, I'm just saying that you claiming you have a right to it is incorrect.[/quote]

[qoute=hookbill]The price for their Digital Value Service beyond the 2 year period they are currently locking people into (yes, they are now contracting) is 45.95. That is for basic digital. HD comes free with that. The 2 year package is 29.95 and from what I read they lock you into it. That also includes their phone, I think.

Now add in 4 boxes for my house, 3 of them HD... taxes... fees... fess on top of taxes... taxes on top of fees :rolleyes:.

I'm not going to argue with my own quote. And with TiVo I pay a lot more.:)

Look, I'm real sorry that TW keeps doing those things to you. You know what they do to me, a person who pays for digital? They copy protect every channel on their digital tier. That means I can't move something I record on TNTHD to my computer or my other TiVo. But if I record the analog version, no problem, copy and distribute freely!

I disagree. TW seems to be interpreting the law the same way as I do... that they have to provide the local channels in digital along side the sd. Again, that's MY opinion and interpretation that I am entitled to same as everyone else. So, that when interpreting the law in that manner, I would then become a digital subscriber, thus meaning I SHOULD get the free channels.

You're entitled to your opininon. You just happen to be wrong. That law applies only to local channels. USA is not a local channel, and neither is Universal.

Right, exactly. The law applies to local channels. Thus, making me a digital subscriber... thus making ALL subscribers digital subscribers.
Now, the new channels (containing Olympic Games content) are being provided to digital subscribers for free TEMPORARILY for the duration on the Olympics. Thus, I should be getting the channels too. ;):)
I'm not asking for a permanent application of those channels. Only the temporary application just like everyone with a box gets.
These channels are provided temporarily for subscribers to watch the Olympics. Therefore all subscribers should be able to watch the Olympics, not just those who pay the most. You guys can go on and on about how you deserve these channels to be added permenantly because you pay "so much" and you deserve them, ect...ect...ect..., but that is not the topic at hand.



Digital Equipment required to receive any Digital
service.
If this is what you are referring to, that my service is analog only, then I rebutt that I DO have digital equipment... the tuners built into my TVs and external tuners ARE digital equipment.

Why are you arguing with US? As far as I know, none of us work for Time Warner.

And that's the last thing I plan on saying. Nothing will change, so live with it.

Right, exactly. The law applies to local channels. Thus, making me a digital subscriber... thus making ALL subscribers digital subscribers.
Now, the new channels (containing Olympic Games content) are being provided to digital subscribers for free TEMPORARILY for the duration on the Olympics. Thus, I should be getting the channels too. ;):)
I'm not asking for a permanent application of those channels. Only the temporary application just like everyone with a box gets.
These channels are provided temporarily for subscribers to watch the Olympics. Therefore all subscribers should be able to watch the Olympics, not just those who pay the most. You guys can go on and on about how you deserve these channels to be added permenantly because you pay "so much" and you deserve them, ect...ect...ect..., but that is not the topic at hand.

If this is what you are referring to, that my service is analog only, then I rebutt that I DO have digital equipment... the tuners built into my TVs and external tuners ARE digital equipment.

You are just being plain stubborn! The "law" doesn't go into effect until Feburary 9, 2009. Getting a little ahead of yourself, arn't you?

Anyway when you tell someone you are on their side and they still want to argue there is no point in going on. I mean really nickdawg, we gotta stop this.

Whoops. Sorry. I forgot this was Smarty-Pants.:D:D:p

Thems fightin words... :D

jtscherne, hookbill, (even nickdog),
I opened this can o' worms, so I guess I'll close it now.
I think I have made my point clear enough (I hope).
...and yes, I am being stubborn. That's usually how I am when I know I'm right ;).
So now that we all agree that I AM right, let's just get back to our regularly scheduled programming (pun intended). :).

Thems fightin words... :D

jtscherne, hookbill, (even nickdog),
I opened this can o' worms, so I guess I'll close it now.
I think I have made my point clear enough (I hope).
...and yes, I am being stubborn. That's usually how I am when I know I'm right ;).
So now that we all agree that I AM right, let's just get back to our regularly scheduled programming (pun intended). :).

No you didn't open the damn can of worms. Technically the AVS forum did when they lost all our info. Otherwise you wouldn't have gotten beaten to a pulp like you did.

When I responded to your post I simply asked if you paid for digital or got it free with the basic through QAM.

Next thing you know, system crashes, I try to repost, nobody understands what the heck I'm talking about and you get as stubborn as a mule.

On second thought, you're right. It's all your fault.;)

And absolutely, you are right!:rolleyes:

Obviously, Hook, you didn't see any of the messages from Sunday before the system blew up. We started this argument then. It got pretty heated even before yesterday (Smarty-Pants even threatened violence against TW!)

All kidding aside, sorry you feel you didn't get what you deserve, Smarty, so good luck.

Just as a clarification here: The ONLY reason why you can get digital QAM channels without paying outright for digital service is that is the basis of the whole digital broadcasting over docsis and these are what your set-tops are getting along with your tv. The only reason why you are able to get any in the clear is for a variety of different reasons. One of which is being lazy on the part of the headend techs. But don't think that just because you CAN get these channels in the first place without paying for digital service is because TW has, in some way, fully sanctioned this. That is FAR from the truth and they have shown this by starting to encrypt many of the clear channels in this region to lock out anyone BUT paying digital tier customers.

Once again: Yes, you may be able to get these channels that are in the clear without paying, but only on a mere technicality and TW is legally in the right to correct this which they HAVE been doing by encrypting many of them.

And to recall a statement I made earlier on: If TW really wanted to, they could simply put a trap on everyone's lines who didn't pay for any digital services to block anything above the frequencies used by the analog channels. and if cases like Smarty's start getting out of hand and largely publicized, it may very well end up going that way.

If you really think TW is so ignorant that they'd totally miss the fact that someone can just pay for the lowest cable tier and get high-end HD services for nothing, you are sorely mistaken.

On the topic of the added channels for the Olympics: People who are SUPPOSED to get them are getting them just fine. Set-top customers are good to go. Cablecard customers are good to go. TW in no way needs to cater their system for an anomaly in the customer-base which isn't even mentioned as being a SUPPORTED setup anywhere in their terms, website, whathaveyou.

Just as a clarification here: The ONLY reason why you can get digital QAM channels without paying outright for digital service is that is the basis of the whole digital broadcasting over docsis and these are what your set-tops are getting along with your tv. The only reason why you are able to get any in the clear is for a variety of different reasons. One of which is being lazy on the part of the headend techs. But don't think that just because you CAN get these channels in the first place without paying for digital service is because TW has, in some way, fully sanctioned this. That is FAR from the truth and they have shown this by starting to encrypt many of the clear channels in this region to lock out anyone BUT paying digital tier customers.

Once again: Yes, you may be able to get these channels that are in the clear without paying, but only on a mere technicality and TW is legally in the right to correct this which they HAVE been doing by encrypting many of them.

And to recall a statement I made earlier on: If TW really wanted to, they could simply put a trap on everyone's lines who didn't pay for any digital services to block anything above the frequencies used by the analog channels.
.

If you really think TW is so ignorant that they'd totally miss the fact that someone can just pay for the lowest cable tier and get high-end HD services for nothing, you are sorely mistaken.

On the topic of the added channels for the Olympics: People who are SUPPOSED to get them are getting them just fine. Set-top customers are good to go. Cablecard customers are good to go. TW in no way needs to cater their system for an anomaly in the customer-base which isn't even mentioned as being a SUPPORTED setup anywhere in their terms, website, whathaveyou.


All I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH same ole crap BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.


You have no idea what TW is doing or is going to do with QAM modulated frequences. What you claim to be received out of laziness, in my region, they have gone to a lot of trouble to revamp the system. All of my local channels in digital/HD are all maped correctly to 3-1, 3-2, 8-1, 19-1, 43-1, ect.. ect... ect...
They were never like that till a few months ago. So I wouldn't exactly call that lazy.

...and what you call a mere tecnicality, is what other people call the LAW. TW is abiding by the law when making all local channels available in digital. Now there could be an arguement of wether they don't have to do that till 02/09, but that's kind-of beside the point.

...and to recall that statement you made earlier?... :ya, it was kind-of obserd the first time, not to mention the second. I can't really see TW spending MILLIONS of dollars going around and puting extra traps on every house that has analog only service. That would actually defeat the purpose of them providng digital content to all their customers.
I mean, isn't this the goal?... to go all digital? Yet you are suggesting the opposite :confused::rolleyes:


If you really think TW is so ignorant that they'd totally miss the fact that someone can just pay for the lowest cable tier and get high-end HD services for nothing, you are sorely mistaken. <- What the heck are you talking about?!? You think someone would subscribe to basic service just to get two extra channels for 2 or 3 months????
(:confused:shakes head in disbelief:confused:)

You are forgetting the fact that the local channels, both SD digital, SD analog, and HD have to be sent, BY LAW, completely unchanged from the source feed. This says NOTHING about pay-for cable networks like TBS, TNT, etal. Two totally different concepts.

I couldn't give two shits about the fact that you happened to get your locals in HD with just the lifeline basic tier. But claiming that you have the god-given right to a package that you are technically not paying for is just baffling. It's just the same as if you were to justify DBS customers using hacked smartcards to receive every channel available when they are only paying for the most basic package. It's a bizarro world justification at best.

In any case, you are clearly a stubborn jackass so I'm done arguing. As I said earlier: You can complain and bitch till you are blue in the face. TW certainly isn't going to pander to your godly desires and they'll just as soon tell you to shove off and go to D* or Dish as well.

In any case, you are clearly a stubborn jackass so I'm done arguing. As I said earlier: You can complain and bitch till you are blue in the face. TW certainly isn't going to pander to your godly desires and they'll just as soon tell you to shove off and go to D* or Dish as well.

Yeah, I didn't know he could be so stubborn either, but apparently when he makes up his mind that he's right, that's it.

Still, he's not a bad guy, and I gotta come to his defense somewhat. Despite the fact that he is shall we say, not wrong just a bit incorrect.:)

He is not going to change his mind on this. It's very apparent and when you see someone is that firm on their stance just walk away. It's the first time I've ever seen him kick his heels up so much but he did say there was no chance of changing his mind.

So once again can we please stop the name calling, drop this conversation, and move on.

Smarty-Pants don't you dare retaliate. It's over. You're right. Let it be.

Maybe they are mapping the locals to be available in digital, as they must carry them. Eventually we will see cable killing the analog channels and sending down digital-only. Again, that only applies to LOCAL BROADCAST. Repeat, LOCAL BROADCAST. Cable systems are making a move away from analog too. And just wait until TWC starts deploying SDV(especially if you're in legacy TWC areas). Once digital cable channels and HD are put on SDV, you'll never see them in the clear, not even by accident. SDV is the way of the future.

And I think they should install extra traps if necessary. Just like the STBs use conditional access or cable cards have POD ID #s that control and determine which services are subscribed to and nothing more, analog customers should have the same restrictions.

Yes, I am taking TWC's side. They own and control the lines and the services transmitted on them. By being a customer you agree to their terms and commitments. YOU agree to follow their policies. If you disagree, go with another provider or OTA. There's no shortage.

Do I think we should get more channels for the money? Yes. But until then we have to take what we get in our chosen package. And if you're not happy, UPGRADE!!

:D Smarty-Pants don't you dare retaliate. It's over. You're right. Let it be.

Awe!!!... c'mon!!! I had it all typed out when you replied before I could submit. It was a good one too :). Got a couple zingers in there WITHOUT name calling (ahem) :rolleyes:.

Oh well. Your one of the good guys too and I like you. So, At your request I will relent... and stop all this verbal abuse :D:p.

hookdog? WTF??

I see you caught that little play on words there huh?... ;)

Don't know if it's already been put on the air and/or noticed here or not (all the cable talk here makes OTA posts hard to follow) but yesterday WVIZ-DT asked for an STA to boost power and transmit from a higher location. Not a huge boost, by any stretch of the imagination, but they ask for 121m 10 kW ND. This is up from 30m 1 kW ND.

They request this until November, when they believe the new WKYC-DT tower will be finished and they'll be able to operate at full power.

- Trip

Anyone think we'll see more HD channels after the Olympics? Since we obviously have the capacity, why not? I see other areas in Ohio that have the same channels as we do(HGTV, Food, A&E, History) also have National Geographic and MHD. Once the Olympics end, there's going to two openings left by the temporary Basketball and Soccer channels.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/CLU/TWCCLUs.ashx?CLUID=777&Zip=&Image1.x=52&Image1.y=8&Image1=submit

Honestly, I'd certainly hope so. Even if all they keep is USAHD, I'll be happy.

Then again, every news piece has stated they're keeping them ONLY for the Olympics and then it immediately goes back to the previous lineup until further notice.

Who knows with TW though. :confused:

I did read before the server crash that one other Ohio system(Armstrong I think) added USA HD permanently. Plus it is available on Comcast, D* and possibly Cablevision. I'd have to check the master list in HDTV Programming.

I honestly can't see why they won't add USA permanently. They made an agreement for the Olympics. Is it honestly that hard to make an agreement to carry the HD version of a network currently carried in SD? C'mon, TBS was on from the start. Plus TWC even filled in all the metadata for USA HD. It's not just listed generically as an Olympics channel. And a majority of TWC markets have added this channel, so it seems stupid and backwards to suddenly get rid of it. I'm hoping the whole thing about not promising USA is just required legal nonsense until progress is made. Just like nothing was said about WBNX at the beginning. I'd really like to see USA, SCIFI and the future MSNBC HD added.

I did read before the server crash that one other Ohio system(Armstrong I think) added USA HD permanently.

Yes, we've been getting USA HD for quite some time (several months) on Armstrong.

nickdawg, I doubt you will get SDV before anybody else in the TW area. You have to understand that TW wants one area with all the same service. If they do as you suggest, that would not accomplish anything. And even though you got the cable line up change first that's apples and oranges. Also it wasn't that long before all of us got the lineup changes.

Now the big question is, how does TW pull off going to all digital? They will have to make boxes available for those with basic lifeline cable. Are they willing to do that for free?

One other thing I don't think you understand. When SDV does arrive not every channel will be SDV. A good majority of them will, but your locals and maybe some of the other more popular stations won't. But you are absolutely right, the only way TW can survive is with SDV.

Now as far as your statement about other choices, I don't have those choices. My wife will not let me put an antenna on the roof and even then I don't want to lose out on channels like FX, USA, TNT. I don't have a clean line of site for satellite. And I don't have U Verse or FIOS in my area. So I am stuck with TW.

And that comment by Smarty-Pants, you ought to consider it a compliment.:D

Surprised nobody else has brought this up as yet..Apparently a software update on the Time Warner Scientific Atlanta HDC 8300 boxes has taken "longer than expected" My receiver is hung in the Ait rebooting mode and has been for who knows how long..Looks like a number of others are in the same situation..

Surprised nobody else has brought this up as yet..Apparently a software update on the Time Warner Scientific Atlanta HDC 8300 boxes has taken "longer than expected" My receiver is hung in the Ait rebooting mode and has been for who knows how long..Looks like a number of others are in the same situation..

Yeah. My mother woke me up this morning because ours was sitting dead on the Mystro boot screen. I dunno if it got fixed or cleared itself yet or not.

Surprised nobody else has brought this up as yet..Apparently a software update on the Time Warner Scientific Atlanta HDC 8300 boxes has taken "longer than expected" My receiver is hung in the Ait rebooting mode and has been for who knows how long..Looks like a number of others are in the same situation..

Thank you. You just made my day.:)

Really sorry about your misfortune, but whenever there are updates things can happen. Even with TiVos. However the constant reboot suggest to me that you have a bad hard drive. I'd take the machine back and get another, you will probably be fine. Of course you will lose all your recordings.

Yeah. My mother woke me up this morning because ours was sitting dead on the Mystro boot screen. I dunno if it got fixed or cleared itself yet or not.


I have heard of similar issues as far away as Erie, Pa. Just after 1:30 My box came back up.

Edit:Just had the box freeze on a particular channel..the Mystro screen just came up after rebooting..

nickdawg, I doubt you will get SDV before anybody else in the TW area.

I'm not talking about SDV in this case. I'm talking about the two openings left by the Olympic Basketball and Soccer channels. We obviously have more capacity than we thought. Plus Time Warner has more channels. I don't see why we don't have the same channels as other areas if we have the capacity.

I'm not talking about SDV in this case. I'm talking about the two openings left by the Olympic Basketball and Soccer channels. We obviously have more capacity than we thought. Plus Time Warner has more channels. I don't see why we don't have the same channels as other areas if we have the capacity.

Yeah, well we've got that here as well.

TW is very tight with the purse strings. They don't want to pay the money out for more HD. If you thought they were simply "out of space" that's just not true. It's simply that they are cheap b#stards. Look at how long it took them to give us the CW and we were told that would be available on cable before OTA, but nope, not TW.

Yeah, well we've got that here as well.

TW is very tight with the purse strings. They don't want to pay the money out for more HD. If you thought they were simply "out of space" that's just not true. It's simply that they are cheap b#stards. Look at how long it took them to give us the CW and we were told that would be available on cable before OTA, but nope, not TW.

That's what I don't get. Follow my link posted earlier to the Columbus lineup. They get what we have PLUS National geographic and MHD. It's not much, but with TWC even two channels are better, especially if they are true HD. I don't see how money affects adding these channels. Time Warner already has agreements with them. Why aren't they added here? Does it cost THAT much? C'mon. D* has been launching freaking satellites and TWC cannot add two channels.

Flipping through the channels, I wanted to cry and scream when I saw what we get now. A bunch of stretchovision garbage!! TNT, TBS, A&E, FOod, HGTV, History! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! History HD had a STRETCHED LETTERBOX show on!! :eek: Just stick the knife through my heart!!

On a good note, I read the updated "More News About HD on TWC" thread and now USA/SCIFI/MSNBC are "in negotiations with TWC". The bad news is NFL and BigTen are in the same category:(. Right now I can only hope that the fact USA has already been added to a majority of TWC systems will influence the decision to add it permanently. I cannot even imagine how many complaints TWC will be getting if USA suddenly goes away. It is the Number One Cable Network afterall! ;) :D

On a good note, I read the updated "More News About HD on TWC" thread and now USA/SCIFI/MSNBC are "in negotiations with TWC". The bad news is NFL and BigTen are in the same category:(. Right now I can only hope that the fact USA has already been added to a majority of TWC systems will influence the decision to add it permanently. I cannot even imagine how many complaints TWC will be getting if USA suddenly goes away. It is the Number One Cable Network afterall! ;) :D

OMG they are actually posting this somewheres? "We are in negotiations" is what they were telling us when we were asking for the CW last November! That's what customer service says if you ask them.

NFL and Big Ten will never meet TWC's terms which is they want them on their "sports tier." And personally I could care less about either one of them.

However USA, yeah, I have a MAJOR problem with them pulling that rug out from under us.

"Most watched cable network?" Maybe. But best cable network is FX, hands down. And that's the one I want besides USA. The Shield in HD. A dream come true. Won't happen, starts Sept 2 final season. Dirt is great and I would just love to see Courtney Cox in HD. She's so hot I would watch her in just about anything and when she is semi nude, even better. Here's where we need a perverted icon, not the stick your tongue out one.

Add the Nip Tuck, The Riches, Damages and the second best show on FX, Rescue Me and you got great original Dramas.

That's the other one I want, FX. I love Rescue Me along with the other shows and movies. Plus there's USA, which is unique because I actually like everything on USA. From original shows like In Plain Sight, Burn Notice, Psych and Monk to the movies and repeats of Law & Order and WWE Monday Night RAW. On the other hand, I absolutely HATE TNT!! I don't even look at that channel unless it's NBA Playoffs time. The rest of the time, it's ignored at the dawg house. Their original programming is garbage and most of the movies and older shows are stretched. Same with TBS. Horrendous original programming and the good shows like King of Queens and Seinfeld are stretched and filled with bugs/snipes. And the mother lovers at TWC force those two s**t channels on us. Those are the channels I honestly wish they'd dump. I know, there are sports there but that's why we have the HD Bonus channel my friends!! Just like FSN Ohio. Get us some channels with REAL HD. Even Sportstime Ohio kicks these cable networks arses.

On the other hand, I absolutely HATE TNT!!.

The Closure is in real HD. As is Saving Grace. Holly Hunter at 50 is as tight as a teen age girl. They also have another series coming out in September, a legal series.

When SDV does arrive not every channel will be SDV. A good majority of them will, but your locals and maybe some of the other more popular stations won't.

I certainly hope this is how it will work. Aside from the cash I've spent on MythTV equipment that would suddenly be useless, putting *everything* on SDV would preclude me from flipping my TV over to coax input to watch a third channel while the TiVo is recording two other channels, which I do fairly often.

SDV isn't a bad idea, but I hope it's reserved for channels that aren't commonly watched by a large percentage of subscribers - OnDemand/PPV and Basket Weaving HD would be good candidates. Keeping the locals as non-SDV is mandatory in my eyes...

I certainly hope this is how it will work. Aside from the cash I've spent on MythTV equipment that would suddenly be useless, putting *everything* on SDV would preclude me from flipping my TV over to coax input to watch a third channel while the TiVo is recording two other channels, which I do fairly often.

SDV isn't a bad idea, but I hope it's reserved for channels that aren't commonly watched by a large percentage of subscribers - OnDemand/PPV and Basket Weaving HD would be good candidates. Keeping the locals as non-SDV is mandatory in my eyes...

I learned most about it from a thread I read about a year or so ago in the TiVo forum. Austin TX was one of the first cities to go "full blown SDV" and there were a whole lot of disgruntled S3 owners. Never the less they said not every channel was SDV, but the majority of them were, and any new HD channels and some previous HD channels had been put on SDV. And many of the S3 owners said they would still prefer to keep their S3 then deal with the cable company boxes.

Since we're keeping lists of channels available in the Cleveland market, here are D*'s first new channels since the latest satellite launch:

DIRECTV - New HD channel rollouts:

286: Planet Green HD
311: ABC Family HD
541: Showtime Showcase HD
542: Showtime Extreme HD

They also added some more 24 hour HD regional sport networks, but not FSN Ohio or STO.

Yipee!! Now I'm definitely switching to D*!! I'd hate to have to watch ABC Family and Planet Green in SDTV!!! :rolleyes:

So that' how D* is meeting their 100 HD Channel quota. Making a bunch of BS channels HD. Maybe Jewelry TV, QVC, CRTV and Celebrity Shopping are next! :rolleyes:

Yipee!! Now I'm definitely switching to D*!! I'd hate to have to watch ABC Family and Planet Green in SDTV!!! :rolleyes:

So that' how D* is meeting their 100 HD Channel quota. Making a bunch of BS channels HD. Maybe Jewelry TV, QVC, CRTV and Celebrity Shopping are next! :rolleyes:

They are "rolling out" premium channels, which means you gotta pay more.

ABC Family as Kyle XY, that's a good show. But again, what good does it do you to have a whole bunch of channels you don't want to watch? It's just like most of the digital channels, I don't watch anything but Showtime right now. And of course the HD versions of TNT, USA. I don't even watch ESPN HD because the only thing I'm interested in is the Dodgers and they don't ever come on until 10:00 pm. I can't watch that because I'll stay up all night.

I want quality not quantity.

This is getting really scarry, nickdawg and I are starting to agree too much.:eek:

This is getting really scarry, nickdawg and I are starting to agree too much.:eek:

Hey, I agree!! That's the reason why I don't switch. There's a few channels I want. I don't care about having 100 channels of crap. I've been with D* before and the cost and hassles are not worth it for the handful of channels I want. I'll just wait for cable.

The only ones I really want are USA and FX HD. They could add those two and never add another channel again and I'd be happy. USA is the rare channel because I actually like everything on it. I'd watch that one all the time. And there's FX for Rescue Me, NipTuck, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and the movies they show(which are often OAR!).

On my secondary list are channels like National Geographic, Discovery Networks Simulcasts and CNN and MSNBC HD(for Countdown w/Keith Olbermann). I like many of the documentaries they show and am disappointed when the "Also in HD" banner appears :(. As for the news, why not have that in HD too :D!

After that, I honestly don't give two s**ts. Add whatever they want. But in reality I want about 15 or 20 channels. No need for the 100. No need for useless channels. I have enough useless BS now with TWC. About the only channels I watch now are the local broadcast, the ESPNs and STO and USA HD. That's it. Occasionally I will watch FOOD or History(if it's not stretched). I've never even looked at HGTV for more than two minutes. I watched a CSI:Miami on A&E about a month ago and haven't looked at TNT since NBA Playoffs and TBS since MLB last fall. And Discovery HDT, waste of space. All they show is the same HD crap on a loop. That channel's only purpose is to demonstrate how "bright and flashy" HDTVs are in stores. They never have anything good like Dirty Jobs or simulcast of Shark Week from SD Discovery.

And don't even get me started on the HD Extra tier for $6.95! Big ripoff. I had it for one month and canceled. Only reason I ever had it was TWC Akron used to put ESPN HD in the extra tier. Once they started including it in the "Free HD", I dumped it. I kinda like Universal HD when they added it, but I couldn't justify the $6.95 a month. HD NET was pathetic. They showed old sitcoms that were canceled(usually from FOX). That and MOJO HD seemed like channels to watch "just for the fact they are HD". I'd rather watch something good in SD than crap in HD any day.

HD Channels I Want:
WKYCHD
WOIOHD
WEWHD
WUABHD
WBNXHD
WNEOHD
ESPNHD
ESPN2HD
ESPNUHD*
STO HD
USAHD
SCIFIHD*
FXHD*
Adult Swim HD*
Discovery HD*
National Geographic HD*
MSNBCHD*
CNN HD*
MHD*
MTV2HD*
Food HD
Spike TV HD*
-------------------
Channels TWC can SHOVE:
TNTHD
TBSHD
WVIZHD
Discovery HDT
The HD Tier
Cinemax/Starz HD
HD on demand

I also agree that it's not the quantity of HD channels you get, but the number of the channels that you would actually watch. The problem is that not everyone wants the same channels and so the variety tends to please more people.

The good news for me is that 82% of the channels I regularly watch are available in HD on D* against the 35% TWC offers locally.

Columbus, just switched to SDV. They added Discovery HD, History HD, and Palladia HD. They also added USA HD for the Olympics. For a week or so they were playing with startover, (one or two channels only) but I don't think its currently working. My daughter lives there and checked the diagnostic screen. SDV is now registering. I believe only the four channels above are SDV. I hope our market switches soon. It would be nice to have the lineup of say, Austin. Also I want TWC to make an agreement with nbc so we can get SciFi and USA permanently.

I hope our market switches soon. It would be nice to have the lineup of say, Austin. Also I want TWC to make an agreement with nbc so we can get SciFi and USA permanently.

I hope we get the USA and SciFi as well but right now we are not getting SciFi, at least not to my knowledge.

As far as Columbus getting SDV, they are an established TW area and not at all in the same situation we are in. After all, TWNEO has much more customers then Columbus (I would think).

As I have pointed out many times they will have to deal with the issue of the old Comcast boxes, which are Moto and the issue I believe they are having with converting SARA to Navigator.

If I mentioned this before I apologize but with the latest TiVo update I see on the diagnostic screen it now has "digital converter" which gives the TiVo the capability to have the digital converter added on for SDV. However I'm not sure if anyone has the digital converter anywhere yet, I know it has been completed but I don't know if it's in distribution.

Define "quality". The best you can do is define quality for you, which likely doesn't match quality for me. Thus variety is the best way to reach the most customers (including customers living in the same household).




I want quality not quantity.

So that' how D* is meeting their 100 HD Channel quota. Making a bunch of BS channels HD.

Ummm, DirecTV doesn't "make" any channel HD. Networks make them, and DirecTV has chosen to provide them, given their superior capacity (at the moment) to provide them. :p

One of the reasons I dropped WOW cable was because they didn't have the NFL Network HD live games. Plenty of people who aren't football fans wouldn't care about that, but I do. Each to his own.

What really makes me laugh is when I visit Comcast territory and they run their ads touting how they are the clear leader in HD over satellite. They've been running these ads for a long time, and it's blatant false advertising.

Define "quality". The best you can do is define quality for you, which likely doesn't match quality for me. Thus variety is the best way to reach the most customers (including customers living in the same household).

Yes, what I like you may not like. And I see the point of why some may want a wide variety of choices but you have to look at how much TRUE HD you get on these channels and how much is just stretch o vision. One of nickdawgs big gripes with TBS and TNT.

Now the mere fact that TBS will have baseball playoffs in HD makes it a keeper for me. Also Sunday Afternoon baseball, I get to see some National League baseball from time to time and let's face it watching the Tribe is a little painfull. Kudos to them for the way they whupped Tampa Bay all season long. And they have done a great job of building a team of valuable players for other clubs.

FWIW I don't see much on the news about it but L.A.'s gone absolutely nuts over Manny Ramirez. They call it Mannymania and he's delivering. Dodgers are now tied with Arizona for first place.

TNT as I pointed out has some great drama and Holly Hunter in HD. That's a keeper. And a Closer.:)

One more point about having "100 channels of HD." Since TW is free to restrict copy on anything other then local broadcast channels and you use a DVR then many of these channels I wouldn't bother to watch because of disk space and the fact that I can't move them from one TiVo to another. But if you're a surfer, I can see why that would be perfect for you. I'm kind of a planner.

What really makes me laugh is when I visit Comcast territory and they run their ads touting how they are the clear leader in HD over satellite. They've been running these ads for a long time, and it's blatant false advertising.

Well, it's Comcastic!:rolleyes:

Blatant false advertising, distortion of truth. I think they all engage that in some form but D* does it probably less then anyone. As far as Comcast, that's such an unbelieveable distortion of the truth you would think John McCain is their spokesperson.:cool:

Whoops, did I just say something wrong.:p

I'm NOT a surfer. It's just that I probably don't like the same channels as you. I heavily record National Geographic, Discovery, HDNet, and premium channel movies and shows. My fiancee watches USA, Food Network, and Spike. The only network shows I watch are Lost, 24, Survivor (going HD this season!), and Amazing Race (non-HD).

The only HD channel D* currently doesn't carry that I'm waiting for is Travel Channel HD. I'd also watch more of BBC America once it goes HD.

But if you're a surfer, I can see why that would be perfect for you. I'm kind of a planner.

I'm NOT a surfer. It's just that I probably don't like the same channels as you. I heavily record National Geographic, Discovery, HDNet, and premium channel movies and shows. My fiancee watches USA, Food Network, and Spike. The only network shows I watch are Lost, 24, Survivor (going HD this season!), and Amazing Race (non-HD).


I wasn't really suggesting that you were a surfer I was speaking in genral. But you're absolutely right. Hey, if we all liked the same things we'd have a boring world.

However I would make a suggestion: If you have Dolby 5.1 you may want to reconsider recording Survivor and AR in HD. First, this season of Survivor will be in HD this year. Second, even though AR is not it's still in Dolby 5.1 and you do get true Dolby sound.

I know. (I even mentioned that Survivor was going HD in my message!)


I wasn't really suggesting that you were a surfer I was speaking in genral. But you're absolutely right. Hey, if we all liked the same things we'd have a boring world.

However I would make a suggestion: If you have Dolby 5.1 you may want to reconsider recording Survivor and AR in HD. First, this season of Survivor will be in HD this year. Second, even though AR is not it's still in Dolby 5.1 and you do get true Dolby sound.

Yes, what I like you may not like. And I see the point of why some may want a wide variety of choices but you have to look at how much TRUE HD you get on these channels and how much is just stretch o vision. One of nickdawgs big gripes with TBS and TNT.

Now the mere fact that TBS will have baseball playoffs in HD makes it a keeper for me.
...
TNT as I pointed out has some great drama and Holly Hunter in HD. That's a keeper. And a Closer.

Neither TNT or TBS (but especially TBS) provide much "true HD" and are a part of the few networks that provide stretch-o-vision which seems somewhat contradictory to your point. Your reasons for making each of these channels "a keeper" shows that the quality of a channel does vary by each individual's expectations/needs.

Neither TNT or TBS (but especially TBS) provide much "true HD" and are a part of the few networks that provide stretch-o-vision which seems somewhat contradictory to your point. Your reasons for making each of these channels "a keeper" shows that the quality of a channel does vary by each individual's expectations/needs.

OK, I guess I really don't know what the other networks show in true HD but the point is I wouldn't watch them anyway so it doesn't matter.

I know. (I even mentioned that Survivor was going HD in my message!)

You sure did! I'm getting more and more like nickdawg. Missing things obviously posted. I think he's giving me a virus.:D

You sure did! I'm getting more and more like nickdawg. Missing things obviously posted. I think he's giving me a virus.:D

I think it's called OLD... :D

I hope Amazing Race goes HD at some point, though I suspect its unique issues will cause that not to happen soon. I know the upcoming season isn't in HD.

Re: "Start Over" - a friend of mine who lives in upstate New York with TWC gets it on his SARA box. I thought SARA didn't support it, but apparently, it can...?!?!

I think it's called OLD... :D

Sadly, I agree. But I have a feeling nickdawg is younger then I am. No, it isn't the level of maturity shown in his posting, I'm probably even more juvenile. However his name nickdawg. That kind of indicates he's of a younger generation.

How much younger, I don't know. I think around 2000 one of the guys I worked with said "HOOK dog, what's goin' on?" And I was like "HOOK DOG?"

And yes, I did see your previous remark Smarty-pants.;)

I just got done watching USA defeat Canada in a come from behind win. Probably taped yesterday, but it was fun to watch. It was on Universal HD.

Did you catch that one by any chance, Smarty-pants?:p

I just got done watching USA defeat Canada in a come from behind win. Probably taped yesterday, but it was fun to watch. It was on Universal HD.

Did you catch that one by any chance, Smarty-pants?:p

Let's not start that one again! :p:p

Well, I know this much...
For the last few days, all I have been hearing here is how you guys don't get what you want from TW. Lots of whining, bitching, moanig that "we should get these channels, but we don't, boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hooooo...".
To that I say quit your damn complaining. You get what you pay for and don't deserve any more. You're lucky to have what you do have. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else to get more HD.
Nuff said... :D;):p

Anyone think we'll see more HD channels after the Olympics? Since we obviously have the capacity, why not? I see other areas in Ohio that have the same channels as we do(HGTV, Food, A&E, History) also have National Geographic and MHD. Once the Olympics end, there's going to two openings left by the temporary Basketball and Soccer channels.

Honestly, I'd certainly hope so. Even if all they keep is USAHD, I'll be happy.

Then again, every news piece has stated they're keeping them ONLY for the Olympics and then it immediately goes back to the previous lineup until further notice.

Who knows with TW though. :confused:

I did read before the server crash that one other Ohio system(Armstrong I think) added USA HD permanently. Plus it is available on Comcast, D* and possibly Cablevision. I'd have to check the master list in HDTV Programming.

I honestly can't see why they won't add USA permanently. They made an agreement for the Olympics. Is it honestly that hard to make an agreement to carry the HD version of a network currently carried in SD? C'mon, TBS was on from the start. Plus TWC even filled in all the metadata for USA HD. It's not just listed generically as an Olympics channel. And a majority of TWC markets have added this channel, so it seems stupid and backwards to suddenly get rid of it. I'm hoping the whole thing about not promising USA is just required legal nonsense until progress is made. Just like nothing was said about WBNX at the beginning. I'd really like to see USA, SCIFI and the future MSNBC HD added.

I'm not talking about SDV in this case. I'm talking about the two openings left by the Olympic Basketball and Soccer channels. We obviously have more capacity than we thought. Plus Time Warner has more channels. I don't see why we don't have the same channels as other areas if we have the capacity.

TW is very tight with the purse strings. They don't want to pay the money out for more HD. If you thought they were simply "out of space" that's just not true. It's simply that they are cheap b#stards. Look at how long it took them to give us the CW and we were told that would be available on cable before OTA, but nope, not TW.

That's what I don't get. Follow my link posted earlier to the Columbus lineup. They get what we have PLUS National geographic and MHD. It's not much, but with TWC even two channels are better, especially if they are true HD. I don't see how money affects adding these channels. Time Warner already has agreements with them. Why aren't they added here? Does it cost THAT much? C'mon. D* has been launching freaking satellites and TWC cannot add two channels.

Flipping through the channels, I wanted to cry and scream when I saw what we get now. A bunch of stretchovision garbage!! TNT, TBS, A&E, FOod, HGTV, History! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! History HD had a STRETCHED LETTERBOX show on!! :eek: Just stick the knife through my heart!!

On a good note, I read the updated "More News About HD on TWC" thread and now USA/SCIFI/MSNBC are "in negotiations with TWC". The bad news is NFL and BigTen are in the same category:(. Right now I can only hope that the fact USA has already been added to a majority of TWC systems will influence the decision to add it permanently. I cannot even imagine how many complaints TWC will be getting if USA suddenly goes away. It is the Number One Cable Network afterall! ;) :D

OMG they are actually posting this somewheres? "We are in negotiations" is what they were telling us when we were asking for the CW last November! That's what customer service says if you ask them.

NFL and Big Ten will never meet TWC's terms which is they want them on their "sports tier." And personally I could care less about either one of them.

However USA, yeah, I have a MAJOR problem with them pulling that rug out from under us.

That's the other one I want, FX. I love Rescue Me along with the other shows and movies. Plus there's USA, which is unique because I actually like everything on USA. From original shows like In Plain Sight, Burn Notice, Psych and Monk to the movies and repeats of Law & Order and WWE Monday Night RAW. On the other hand, I absolutely HATE TNT!! I don't even look at that channel unless it's NBA Playoffs time. The rest of the time, it's ignored at the dawg house. Their original programming is garbage and most of the movies and older shows are stretched. Same with TBS. Horrendous original programming and the good shows like King of Queens and Seinfeld are stretched and filled with bugs/snipes. And the mother lovers at TWC force those two s**t channels on us. Those are the channels I honestly wish they'd dump. I know, there are sports there but that's why we have the HD Bonus channel my friends!! Just like FSN Ohio. Get us some channels with REAL HD. Even Sportstime Ohio kicks these cable networks arses.

The only ones I really want are USA and FX HD. They could add those two and never add another channel again and I'd be happy. USA is the rare channel because I actually like everything on it. I'd watch that one all the time. And there's FX for Rescue Me, NipTuck, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and the movies they show(which are often OAR!).

On my secondary list are channels like National Geographic, Discovery Networks Simulcasts and CNN and MSNBC HD(for Countdown w/Keith Olbermann). I like many of the documentaries they show and am disappointed when the "Also in HD" banner appears :(. As for the news, why not have that in HD too :D!

After that, I honestly don't give two s**ts. Add whatever they want. But in reality I want about 15 or 20 channels. No need for the 100. No need for useless channels. I have enough useless BS now with TWC. About the only channels I watch now are the local broadcast, the ESPNs and STO and USA HD. That's it. Occasionally I will watch FOOD or History(if it's not stretched). I've never even looked at HGTV for more than two minutes. I watched a CSI:Miami on A&E about a month ago and haven't looked at TNT since NBA Playoffs and TBS since MLB last fall. And Discovery HDT, waste of space. All they show is the same HD crap on a loop. That channel's only purpose is to demonstrate how "bright and flashy" HDTVs are in stores. They never have anything good like Dirty Jobs or simulcast of Shark Week from SD Discovery.

And don't even get me started on the HD Extra tier for $6.95! Big ripoff. I had it for one month and canceled. Only reason I ever had it was TWC Akron used to put ESPN HD in the extra tier. Once they started including it in the "Free HD", I dumped it. I kinda like Universal HD when they added it, but I couldn't justify the $6.95 a month. HD NET was pathetic. They showed old sitcoms that were canceled(usually from FOX). That and MOJO HD seemed like channels to watch "just for the fact they are HD". I'd rather watch something good in SD than crap in HD any day.

HD Channels I Want:
WKYCHD
WOIOHD
WEWHD
WUABHD
WBNXHD
WNEOHD
ESPNHD
ESPN2HD
ESPNUHD*
STO HD
USAHD
SCIFIHD*
FXHD*
Adult Swim HD*
Discovery HD*
National Geographic HD*
MSNBCHD*
CNN HD*
MHD*
MTV2HD*
Food HD
Spike TV HD*
-------------------

I hope we get the USA and SciFi as well but right now we are not getting SciFi, at least not to my knowledge.

Let's not start that one again! :p:p

^^^You can say THAT again... :D:p;):p:D^^^

What was the point of all those quote?

What was the point of all those quote?

See post 13945

While watching this morning's Olympic Basketball on the SA DVR:p, I noticed WKYC redefined stupidity. Their crap generator was busier than ever cranking out crawls to tell me that "321 Penguins" is not on because of NBC's Olmpic coverage. Really? They have to tell us this? Isn't it obvious, considering the NBC Olympic bug is in the corner and there are no penguins on screen? Not 321 penguins, not even ONE!! Then in the next hour, they do the exact same to tell us that "My Friend Rabbit" is not on and when it will be replayed. YIPPEE!! I was like so disappointed that My Friend Rabbit wasn't on this week but then I was like so happy it will be on Tuesday at 2:30 PM. Thanks WKYC!!! As if anyone gives a f*ck that these shows aren't on.

And, on top of that one. A few days ago(whenever we had severe weather, I forget) WKYC really took a stupid pill. Wish I had recorded it to post screenshots. They actually superimposed a colored box on the lower third of the screen to run the weather map/crawl. As if the usual map/crawl are not intrusive enough, now they need a g-damn box too! And here's the worst part, THEY DIDN'T SHOW IT ON THE SDTV CHANNEL!! HDTV viewers get the royal treatment of useless crap and SDTV gets nothing:confused:. Nice one!

Just thought I'd share. What would this place be and who would I be without the occasional rants about bugs/snipes on screen?:rolleyes:;):D

Let's not start that one again! :p:p

Yeah, I know I shouldn't have done it but it was like this unresistable urge. Hard as I tried I couldn't keep my hands off the keyboard.

It was the evil hookbill that did that. You see 2 heads are better then one, which means I'm a genious but unfortunately it comes with the multiple personality complex.:eek::rolleyes:

Joni Mitchell, Court and Spark track 11.

But I was hoping Smarty-pants would be back to his good natured self again by now. And I always have this urge to stir the pot.

As I said just having the opportunity to watch real baseball, played in the National League on TBS makes it a keeper in HD.

There were a few sound drops but the pq was perfect when Matt Kemp hit the first pitch of the bottom of the first into the seats. And with a runner on you could see with great clarity as Manny Rameriz, you guys remember him, hit a ball over the centerfield fence.

Then with a 5-1 lead and 1 out in the 9th Joe Torre brings in Chan Ho Park. As in Chan hit it out of the Park, which the Brewers did to tie the game.

But fortunately with a runner on in the bottom of the 9th Andre Eithier hit one out and the Dodgers won, all in HD, and the only game I've seen them win this year!

That makes it a keeper.

And the Dodger fans love Manny. There is a rumor they are going to change the sign from "Hollywood" to "Mannywood."

And for what it's worth Casey Blake has been hitting great since he's come over.

Thank You Cleveland. And Thank You TBS!!!!

Who needs the Olympics?

As I said just having the opportunity to watch real baseball, played in the National League on TBS makes it a keeper in HD.

I'd never say TBS is a keeper, even at gunpoint:p!! But I would definitely say TBS's coverage of MLB gets first priority on the HD Bonus Channel on Nickdawg Cable(when I start my own cable company:D)

Their crap generator was busier than ever cranking out crawls to tell me that "321 Penguins" is not on because of NBC's Olmpic coverage. Really? They have to tell us this?

They might, actually. The programming you cite would all fall under the E/I (educational/informational) guidelines, which means it's programming that all stations are required to carry. (It's the same reason WKYC's NBC Weather Plus has to run "Weather University" for an hour each day.)

I have no doubt that the FCC E/I guidelines also require the station to notify viewers if the programming is preempted and moved.

They might, actually. The programming you cite would all fall under the E/I (educational/informational) guidelines, which means it's programming that all stations are required to carry. (It's the same reason WKYC's NBC Weather Plus has to run "Weather University" for an hour each day.)

I have no doubt that the FCC E/I guidelines also require the station to notify viewers if the programming is preempted and moved.

You're exactly right. It's an FCC requirement that preemption announcements for children's educational programming must run in the time period where the program usually airs.

You're exactly right. It's an FCC requirement that preemption announcements for children's educational programming must run in the time period where the program usually airs.

And here's some information on that from a prominent broadcast law firm:

http://wilmerhale.com/publications/whPubsDetail.aspx?publication=3525


The FCC expects that stations will air information about the substitute time slot at the time a preempted core program normally airs.


So, blame the FCC, not WKYC.

Has anyone noticed that a lot TW's hd channels don't seem as crisp the last couple days? Seems like a lot of faint fuzz/macroblocking. I live in the Amherst market.

Has anyone noticed that a lot TW's hd channels don't seem as crisp the last couple days? Seems like a lot of faint fuzz/macroblocking. I live in the Amherst market.

No. I watched the news on FOX 8 live, it looked fine. I'm serviced by the Concorde head end.

If it keeps up have them to a truck roll to see if you hare getting proper signals.

I'm trying to watch the Olympics tonight and am noticing major breakups, pixelation and breaks in transmission on NBC. Switched over to ESPNHD and noticed similar. I haven't noticed it this bad before but will definitely keep an eye on it.

I'm watching Olympics right now and it looks fine. Just the usual macroblocking/breakup that is to be expected from NBC(as mentioned on the main Olympics thread).

Other than that, my picture is fine. Serviced by the Akron head end. If it's really bad, I'd say a truck roll is necessary.

And here's some information on that from a prominent broadcast law firm:

http://wilmerhale.com/publications/whPubsDetail.aspx?publication=3525



So, blame the FCC, not WKYC.

After I posted, I thought about it and figure it must have something to do with the FCC. I remember this item from OMW (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2007/07/quick-hits.html) last year about WKYC getting a hefty $10K fine for something ridiculous like not showing the message about reading the children's television reports. I could go off topic on this one as well, but I'll spare everyone. Instead I'll throw it out there how ridiculous this is. I remember reading about the new regulations a few years back that are responsible for the perma-bug stating a show is "E/I" on programming. I find the whole thing bulls... because once again we have ridiculous government rulings. I grew up in the early 90s. Back then there wasn't any of this nonsense. There was no "E/I" perma bug on programming. There wasn't even a network bug! I grew up fine. Everyone else did.

E/I, which stands for "educational and informative," refers to a type of children's television programming shown in the United States. The Federal Communications Commission requires that every broadcast station in the U.S. show at least three hours of these programs every week.

In addition, stations must identify such shows on-screen with an "E/I" bug in a corner of the screen. Originally, this was displayed only during the first minute of the program, or, as a separate announcement prior to the show, but since 2004, all E/I shows must display the bug during the entire duration of the show, except during commercial breaks.

Guess WKYC was just trying to be safe and avoid another pointless fine. My apologies to WKYC. It's really pathetic that the FCC would require stations to show this garbage announcements over the Olympics. But then again, why am I surprised that the government is stupid!;):D

I don't usually watch WVIZ SD or HD(since WNEO kicks their ass any day) but today I noticed flipping through channels that the multicast channels of WVIZ(363/364) are not on at all and WVIZ HD(411) is breaking up quite a bit. Even the SD digital feed is messed up. WVIZ SD Digital has grey, horizontal stripes through the picture. I know they've had issues in the past mentioned here before, but I thought I'd bring this one up as well.

I had some problem with my TW. HD DVR Box last night and I had to call Time Warner to have them Re Boot my Box and while I was on the phone I asked about any new HD Channels being added and the person said they are close to adding the big 10 network by the end of the month.

Guess there has been meetings between the 2...

I asked would it be on basic or Digital and she said she didn't know.

I also asked about USA HD Staying and she said I was the 2nd one to ask about that tonight and she didn't have an answer

Remember, don't take anything a CSR says seriously. Yes, there have been meetings between TWC and BTN, but until a deal is announced, nobody knows if there will be a deal by the end of the month.

I have an SA8300 and wonder if there is a way to "remove" channels. There are so many duplicates now with the digital and analog groups as well as all the wonderful shopping channel, religious channels, music channels, etc. I would like to be able to remove these channels so that when I use the channel up/down I can only see the ones I want. I know you can put all of the channels you like in the favorites, but that only allows you to move in one direction - unless I'm missing somthing.

I really only want to "see" the HD (400's), 3-99 removing the the duplicates and shopping, the DVR channel and a very few off the channels between 100 and 399. Is there any way to do this?

Thanks.

I have an SA8300 and wonder if there is a way to "remove" channels. There are so many duplicates now with the digital and analog groups as well as all the wonderful shopping channel, religious channels, music channels, etc. I would like to be able to remove these channels so that when I use the channel up/down I can only see the ones I want. I know you can put all of the channels you like in the favorites, but that only allows you to move in one direction - unless I'm missing somthing.

I really only want to "see" the HD (400's), 3-99 removing the the duplicates and shopping, the DVR channel and a very few off the channels between 100 and 399. Is there any way to do this?

Thanks.

There isn't a way to "remove" channels, but there is a way to work around it. Set the channels you want to see as favorite channels. Then in Settings, under Display choose "Sort By Favorites"==>Favorites First. This puts all your favorite channels first in the guide and you can use the favorite channel button to skip the other channels.

Remember, don't take anything a CSR says seriously. Yes, there have been meetings between TWC and BTN, but until a deal is announced, nobody knows if there will be a deal by the end of the month.


+1
You can repeat it until you're blue in the face, but there is always someone who will say "a CSR told me....":)

That statement also applies to TiVo CSR's. And with a TiVo you can pick the channels you want and don't want. And you can have favorites too.

nickdawgs work around for the SA 8300 is fine, the reason TiVo does it is because many people use the "tivo suggestions" feature, and if it finds something that it thinks you might want you can eliminate the SD versions of these channels and it will record the HD version.

It also avoids recording programs on channels you may hate like female channels, religious channels, and other channels which I can't speak about because it is politically incorrect.

And yes, nickdawg I know you don't want no DVR telling you what to watch. I don't either, I don't use that feature. When I did years ago, before HD it would fill up with COPS. You would not believe how many different channels Cops is shown on. And every Law & Order. For me, I'll use the Futon Critic.

And just in case you're wondering if I did use it and it filled my disk up it would delete the suggested recordings or stop them if it needed disk space.

OK, Hook. Why would I need BOTH favorites and eliminated channels? I currently don't even have favorites set up. But I've always wanted an "eliminate channels" setting so I could get rid of the under 100 channels. The one thing that pisses me off about TWC is when they made the new lineup they didn't kill the "under 100" old channels on cable boxes. Why do I need MSNBC on 37 and 354? That doesn't make sense. Why make a new lineup and leave the old numbers on cable boxes?

Methinks someone has an obsession with police shows:p!

With SA, a series recording made on a SD channel will record that SD channel. YOu have to specifically set it for the HD channel. I nuked my series recordings of "In Plain Sight" and "Burn Notice" on USA-201 and changed them to USAHD-450. The downside is my hard drive is almost full. Luckily the USA shows are the only HD shows I'm currently recording. If SDV comes to be here and we get good channels, I just might have to get an external hard drive.

I had some problem with my TW. HD DVR Box last night and I had to call Time Warner to have them Re Boot my Box and while I was on the phone I asked about any new HD Channels being added and the person said they are close to adding the big 10 network by the end of the month.

Guess there has been meetings between the 2...

I asked would it be on basic or Digital and she said she didn't know.

I also asked about USA HD Staying and she said I was the 2nd one to ask about that tonight and she didn't have an answer

I did find this over on the HDTV Forum. NFL/BTN and the NBCU networks are "negotiations in progress" with TWC. I tink we have a better chance of seeing NBCU networks than BTN or NFL. If we do get NFL and Big 10, they better be on the digital tier, NOT a tier that has an extra charge. There's already enough of these "extra charge channels"

Choice Tier=$5
Movie Tier=$5
Sports Tier=$5
HD Tier=$6.95

I do not have any of those packages and I refuse to pay extra for sh*t we should be getting anyway.

Negotiations Known In Progress With TWC

NFL Network-HD
Big Ten Network-HD
IFC-HD
MavTV-HD
AMC-HD
WE-HD
FUSE-HD
Sci-Fi-HD
Bravo-HD
USA-HD --- (added temporarily for the olympics)
CNBC-HD --- (added temporarily for the olympics)
MSNBC-HD --- (Channel Launching in Q4 of 2008)
Chiller-HD --- (Channel Launching in 2008)


MPEG-4 TRANSCODING

Every TWC division has to install Transcoding equipment to convert MPEG-4 sent from programmers to MPEG-2 for broadcast (Programmers like HBO's Multiplex Channels will do MPEG-4)
It is currently unknown which TWC systems if any has done this yet.

I found the part about MPEG4 interesting because I saw something about the two temporary channels for the Olympics being broadcast in MPEG4. That means anyone carrying them has to have the MPEG4 to MPEG2 converters. We're getting them in NE Ohio, we may be MPEG4 capable. I add this to more evidence that SDV is in the near future, since many of the new networks are MPEG4.

OK, Hook. Why would I need BOTH favorites and eliminated channels? I currently don't even have favorites set up. But I've always wanted an "eliminate channels" setting so I could get rid of the under 100 channels. The one thing that pisses me off about TWC is when they made the new lineup they didn't kill the "under 100" old channels on cable boxes. Why do I need MSNBC on 37 and 354? That doesn't make sense. Why make a new lineup and leave the old numbers on cable boxes?

You see nickdawg, TW thinks like you do.:rolleyes: So in their infinite wisdom they have grouped all these channels together! All you gotta do is look at the lineup. You want drama, it's all in one section.

But you see the poor people who don't have digital don't have all this "really cool" stuff grouped together so they had to make mirror channels for all of us digital folks.

Irritates the crap out of me, since on my menu it just list the channels and description of the shows. Like the other day when I was trying to figure out where in the heck MSNBC was at in the grouping. Of course I just went to the analog and used that one. I know 400's are HD. Somewhere I have a line up card, but if I want to find a show I can just punch it in with my remote.

Methinks someone has an obsession with police shows:p!

Yeah, well it keeps you on your toes, ya know. Like if the wife decides to take me out maybe I can get a clue because a lot of that stuff on L&O is based on real life things.:D;)

I did find this over on the HDTV Forum. NFL/BTN and the NBCU networks are "negotiations in progress" with TWC. I tink we have a better chance of seeing NBCU networks than BTN or NFL. If we do get NFL and Big 10, they better be on the digital tier, NOT a tier that has an extra charge. There's already enough of these "extra charge channels"

Choice Tier=$5
Movie Tier=$5
Sports Tier=$5
HD Tier=$6.95

I do not have any of those packages and I refuse to pay extra for sh*t we should be getting anyway.

I agree.



I found the part about MPEG4 interesting because I saw something about the two temporary channels for the Olympics being broadcast in MPEG4. That means anyone carrying them has to have the MPEG4 to MPEG2 converters. We're getting them in NE Ohio, we may be MPEG4 capable. I add this to more evidence that SDV is in the near future, since many of the new networks are MPEG4.

I don't know much about MPEG4 other then that D* uses it and eventually all cable companies will. But as far as SDV and "near future" you just keep on dreaming.

We will be the last people in the country to get SDV. There are still only a few areas in the country to be converted and as I have pointed out due to our situation there is no way we will get it until TW figures out what it wants to do with the Comcast boxes and SARA's little problem. And just because you're TW native, don't expect to get any privledges. The vast majority of their customers are ex Adelphia.

If what we were seeing on USA was "mpeg 4" or "converted mpeg4" it looks awful darn good on Universal.

And I'm going to predict, and this is a pure guess. Nobody has told me anything. USA will NOT go away. I hope.

That means anyone carrying them has to have the MPEG4 to MPEG2 converters.

Well, except for DBS providers...

You see nickdawg, TW thinks like you do.:rolleyes: So in their infinite wisdom they have grouped all these channels together! All you gotta do is look at the lineup. You want drama, it's all in one section.

But you see the poor people who don't have digital don't have all this "really cool" stuff grouped together so they had to make mirror channels for all of us digital folks.

Irritates the crap out of me, since on my menu it just list the channels and description of the shows. Like the other day when I was trying to figure out where in the heck MSNBC was at in the grouping. Of course I just went to the analog and used that one. I know 400's are HD. Somewhere I have a line up card, but if I want to find a show I can just punch it in with my remote.


Notice I use the word "cable box" in there. The under 100 channels would still be there(GROAN) for those without boxes but those of us with boxes(or Tivos) would get the over 100 versions. The only thing TWC would HAVE to keep under 100 are 2-18(SD locals plus a few cable channels not repeated over 100) and channel 23 NEON. 19-22 and 24-100 would be gone, vanished, POOF!! There's no need for them, other than to enable those who don't want to learn new numbers. :p If you're confused just tune to 100,200,300,400 or 600. Those 6 channels show a list of what channel genres are located where.

And I'm going to predict, and this is a pure guess. Nobody has told me anything. USA will NOT go away.

I hope you're right!! And I hope the new MSNBC and SCIFI HD will be added as well.

the NFL Network in HD along with Big Ten Network in HD.. if TW added to a separate pay area

I would just drop one of my movie channels and pick that up.

but I agree it should be at the most on the Digital Side...and not a separate Pay package on top of paying for Digital channels..

what sucks is you can't have HBO without getting Digital...so it actually costs you more then the $9.95 per month for it..

I won't pay $5 more or even $1 more for any tier or package TWC tries to put these channels into. I think that has been the whole issue all along. TWC wants to put NFL and BTN in an extra package and the network wants standard digital coverage. I'm with the networks on this one. I want these channels on digital cable as well.

what sucks is you can't have HBO without getting Digital...so it actually costs you more then the $9.95 per month for it..

I honestly can't say for certain but it seems to me that in order to get any premium channels you had to have a box. Now whether or not that box gave you HBO or Showtime, the only two I can remember initially. But you needed a box.

I'm pretty sure this was true when "cable ready" televisions evolved as well. But I think the box was just a decoder of some sort. Fiber Opitical cable wasn't even around until the mid 1990's.

I do remember that during the early years of pay per view one cable company you would have to go and get these things that attatched to your line before the box to unlock the signal. You had a 50/50 chance of them working, I remember gathering for PPV fights that cost 75.00 and we would all chip in and have a party. If the fight didn't come on we'd just complain about the crummy cable television and get drunk. I also remember that you could see HBO on cable ready channels but they were scrambled so you got straight sound but a warped picture.

I also seem to remember stories about cable installers who would be "cool" and would give you add on's at no charge with a wink and a nod type thing. They would do that on the pole.

That didn't require a box. But I don't remember if it was premium channels. And I think they usually did it for chicks.;) I know nobody ever did that for me, despite the fact that I would bribe them with beer.

My point is that somehow, some way I think you ALWAYS paid for the box, at least one time and HBO was not that cheap back then. $25.00 a month if I recall. Price has come down. So even if you wern't paying for "digital," you were paying in another way.

I also remember that you could see HBO on cable ready channels but they were scrambled so you got straight sound but a warped picture.

I can remember as a teenager tuning to the, uh, adult channel. I still had a set with the little push-in dials for fine-tuning the channels, and if you nudged it *just* right, you could get the green wiggly line to stay in one spot. Every once in a while you could clearly make out a body part.

I used to call it Picasso Porn.

:D

...is apparently the home for polka music in NE Ohio. They seem to be playing blurry video of polka dancing 12 hours a day. Nothing wrong with polkas if that's your thing, but---why of all things is this what they are running on the channel you MUST see every time you turn on the cable box? Is there a descendant of Frankie Yankovic in the control room??

I honestly can't say for certain but it seems to me that in order to get any premium channels you had to have a box. Now whether or not that box gave you HBO or Showtime, the only two I can remember initially "digitally" I don't know. But you needed a box.
The distinction I think that's being made is that not only do you need to rent the box, but you need to subscribe to the basic digital service. So you have to pay $5 for something you don't need or want just to get access to premiums. You need the box, but you don't need digital basic.

I also seem to remember stories about cable installers who would be "cool" and would give you add on's at no charge with a wink and a nod type thing. They would do that on the pole.

That didn't require a box. But I don't remember if it was premium channels.

What they would do at the pole was to remove a line filter which block extra channels. In Ann Arbor HBO was a filtered channel which could be unblocked by removing the filter.

The distinction I think that's being made is that not only do you need to rent the box, but you need to subscribe to the basic digital service. So you have to pay $5 for something you don't need or want just to get access to premiums. You need the box, but you don't need digital basic.


In regards to the quote I rewrote that one several times before I finally remembered that "digital cable" wasn't even available at that time so I should have pulled that statement out. However in regards to you saying you pay 5.00 more for something you don't want my point was back then HBO was much more expensive then it is today, box included. 25 bucks was a lot more money in 1980 then now.

The Olympics arn't over and I see on the schedule that there are more games planned. But unfortunately I'm not getting USAHD at this time via TW. So either my cable cards arn't getting the hit or they are preparing us for the removal.:mad:

I see Olympic coverage scheduled after Psyche tonight. But right now I have a grey screen.

Anybody else in TW land getting non Olympic programs on USA HD?

Check that. I went and looked and it's back up. Must have been temporary. Recording Psyche in HD now.

Is anyone else having major breakup problems on certain analog cable channels and their supposed digital lineup twins?

23, 27-30, 33-36, and many others above them, and whatever their upper channel dopplegangers are. The screen is in blocky pixels, that change every second or so.

I'm seeing this on both my digital SD box attached to the TiVo, and on the SA8000HD box in the loft. The HD channels are fine, and other analog channels not listed above (i.e. 31-32, 37-39, etc.) are perfect, so I don't think it's a signal problem on this end. Digital cable channels I know have been digital all along (i.e. ESPNU) are fine.

The breakups are happening on my analog cable without any box attached, either, same channels.

My only guess is that they've run into a problem trying to create digital SD simulcasts of analog channels.

The channels they've previously done this with, 3/5/8/19 (cable 4 in that last case) are flawless. But even the ones I know to be analog, and all channels below 23, are fine.

TWC's local channel, 23, is supposed to be doing a HS football game, but has a blank screen.

Here's an example off CNN...a REAL example of "breaking (up) news"!

Is anyone else having major breakup problems on certain analog cable channels and their supposed digital lineup twins?

23, 27-30, 33-36, and many others above them, and whatever their upper channel dopplegangers are. The screen is in blocky pixels, that change every second or so.

I'm seeing this on both my digital SD box attached to the TiVo, and on the SA8000HD box in the loft. The HD channels are fine, and other analog channels not listed above (i.e. 31-32, 37-39, etc.) are perfect, so I don't think it's a signal problem on this end. Digital cable channels I know have been digital all along (i.e. ESPNU) are fine.

The breakups are happening on my analog cable without any box attached, either, same channels.

My only guess is that they've run into a problem trying to create digital SD simulcasts of analog channels.

The channels they've previously done this with, 3/5/8/19 (cable 4 in that last case) are flawless. But even the ones I know to be analog, and all channels below 23, are fine.

TWC's local channel, 23, is supposed to be doing a HS football game, but has a blank screen.

I'm also getting the blank screen on 23. But the other channels work fine. Can't say anything about analog, since I don't have any analog channels. All of our channels are already digital.

Maybe they're beginning to work on making all your channels digital(if you're former Adelphia). Just another clue to say SDV is coming soon. :p

USA HD is working fine. Must be the tivo that's responsible for that :p

I just watched Monk and Psych for the last time(in HD) EVER!! :(

Right now I'm watching House in spectacular HD.

Now Action Sports is on(in HD). Holy S...!! I'm canceling TWC if they drop this channel. USA HD is like the only HD channel I watch(other than ESPN and STO). The channels between 441 and 448 are complete sh*t. They absolutely suck. I hate them all!!

My friends, it' time for another Nickdawg local TV rant.

First off, WKYC. According to the TV schedule, tomorrow at 4pm "NFL Football" is on WKYC 3-1 from 4:00pm - 7:00pm. Yet at the same time, WFMJ 21-1 has two more hours of Olympic coverage from 4-6. You know, that event that comes ONCE every FOUR years;)!! What is going to happen to these two hours of Olympic coverage? Will it be moved to 3-2 Weather Plus Channel? I hope so. I haven't found anything about it on wkyc.com of Frank Macek's blog. I'd hate to just see two hours of the Olympics gone.

The second incident is WEWS. Saturday night, my TWC guide is telling me that the film "Cinderella Man" will air from 8 to 11. I have also seen a commercial stating this. But TitanTV and abc.com have the movie "Madagascar" listed. WYTV 33-1 also has "Madagascar" listed. Unlike last time, I do not see it moved to a different time. I check later at night as well as Sunday afternoon and Monday early hours and it's nowhere to be found. What a shame! I wanted to see it in HD. And don't tell me to rent it, I want to see it in HD widescreen(not SD, already seen it). Thank god the Olympics are on. Makes it easier for me to ignore the crummy syndicated, SD movie.

That is all...

I'm also getting the blank screen on 23. But the other channels work fine. Can't say anything about analog, since I don't have any analog channels. All of our channels are already digital.

Maybe they're beginning to work on making all your channels digital(if you're former Adelphia). Just another clue to say SDV is coming soon. :p

Refresh my memory, please. How do you know all of your channels are digital? And if they are, are they converted digital? They would have to be since people without boxes still get analog.

USA HD is working fine. Must be the tivo that's responsible for that :p



Not the TiVo, but I think it may have been one of the cable cards. I double checked both cards this morning and it was fine. Odd however, when I went upstairs and checked there was no problem, I turned on the TV downstairs waking my birds and got the grey screen, changed channels and then it was there.

I've seen this happen about 6 moths ago before with WEWS. I had to test daily for a couple of weeks then the problem stopped. I'd get a grey screen, flip to an analog channel then back to WEWS and it would work fine. I even had my headend person looking at it and she couldn't find a problem, but it was cable card related.

It's just another example of how cable cards can be trouble.

Here's an example off CNN...a REAL example of "breaking (up) news"!

From time to time I've seen some break up on cable analog channels, but I don't ever recall seeing anything like that!:) Was that taken when Obama announced his running mate? I started breaking up myself, in anger.

Now I'm thinking who do I want. I guy who tells lies, doesn't know how many houses he owns, however is a true American hero vs a guy who doesn't have enough sense to have realized that if he would have picked Clinton he would have had a sure victory.

I know the FBI may come knocking at my door, but there may come a time, soon, when we will have to take our country back.

Spoken like a true 60's hippie! John Lennon said on the White Album version of Revolution "but if you talk about destruction, don't you know that you can count me out - in."

From time to time I've seen some break up on cable analog channels, but I don't ever recall seeing anything like that!:) Was that taken when Obama announced his running mate? I started breaking up myself, in anger.

In any of this thinking...did you happen to turn on a TV hooked to Time Warner Cable and see if CNN was breaking up for YOU? Did anyone? Bueller?

CNN is still breakup city at this hour (just before 10 AM Saturday), as is CNN Headline News (35) and CNBC (36). It seems to be blocks of about 3 channels. MSNBC (37) and FNC (38) are fine.

I need SOMEONE on the TWC Cleveland (ex-Adelphia) system to see this problem and confirm it, so I have evidence when I call them up and try to prevent them from doing a truck roll and running me through the whole thing of checking my signal levels, etc...if it's just here, why would only certain blocks of channels have this problem, and why would others both analog and digital be flawless?

OK, I'm a bit calmer now...

I picked up the phone and called a TWC CSR, and surprise, within about 2 minutes I had a CSR who told me the problem has been reported, and that they were aware of it and are working on it.

No offers to send a truck, no barrage of questions about my setup, equipment or cable boxes, no "did you check this and that"...just "we know about it and are working on it". They say there's some sort of outage, but didn't get more specific.

And finally, it appears to be fixed.

Interesting. I turned it on first thing this morning and I never had any problem with it.

Interesting. I turned it on first thing this morning and I never had any problem with it.

They didn't give many details - just said it was an "outage". I wonder if it was related to the specific node of the TWC/Cleveland system I'm on...which is fed out of Bath, I believe.

They didn't give many details - just said it was an "outage". I wonder if it was related to the specific node of the TWC/Cleveland system I'm on...which is fed out of Bath, I believe.

Or it could be that the CSR just wanted to get you off the line so fed you a line of crap.:) You know the rule, never believe anything a CSR tells you.

Actually I kind of think that they probably were truthfully with you. I'm sure they get monitored and just making something up would be cause for a severe wrist slapping.

I can't tell you how many times I have a customer say to me that a CSR said something to them of significance, and there is not even a note. Sure, sometimes the customer is lying or mistaking but you can kind of tell by certain key phrases that the customer says. Had it happen to me today, I was convinced the CSR told this Agent something and not a note on it.

Or it could be that the CSR just wanted to get you off the line so fed you a line of crap.:) You know the rule, never believe anything a CSR tells you.

Actually I kind of think that they probably were truthfully with you. I'm sure they get monitored and just making something up would be cause for a severe wrist slapping.

Well, as it turned out, whatever kind of an "outage" was, it was their problem, they were aware of it, and they did fix it. That's all that matters to me. I don't really care of the details of the "outage".

I'm pretty sure they were getting other calls, since I did have to wait for about a minute on what I presume was a slow day for calls, and at least heard the "all of our representatives are busy" message once.

And the CSR was quickly forthcoming on the "we know about the problem and are working on it" line, and didn't once try to figure out if it was something requiring a truck roll...

Refresh my memory, please. How do you know all of your channels are digital? And if they are, are they converted digital? They would have to be since people without boxes still get analog.

They all say Dolby 2/0 and there is that brief "delay" when tuning to the channel. Analog channels used to just "appear" and the digital(used to be over 100) always had a black screen, then appeared. Also, the PQ is better on most channels(except for under 15, the locals look like sh*t). Many of the channels like the ones in the 50s range had fuzz and lines in the picture on analog but now they're clear. And channels 70 and 74 never came in clear(due to interference) on analog and now they are also clear.The fact channels under 100 can be viewed without a box is independent of this. Analog and Digital have been coexisting here for almost two years. Either the source feed is digital and it is downconverted or it is analog and upconverted. Cable still sends out bandwidth-wasting analog feeds. :(

They all say Dolby 2/0 and there is that brief "delay" when tuning to the channel. Analog channels used to just "appear" and the digital(used to be over 100) always had a black screen, then appeared. Also, the PQ is better on most channels(except for under 15, the locals look like sh*t). Many of the channels like the ones in the 50s range had fuzz and lines in the picture on analog but now they're clear. And channels 70 and 74 never came in clear(due to interference) on analog and now they are also clear.The fact channels under 100 can be viewed without a box is independent of this. Analog and Digital have been coexisting here for almost two years. Either the source feed is digital and it is downconverted or it is analog and upconverted. Cable still sends out bandwidth-wasting analog feeds. :(

I've noticed improved pq on analog since I got my tivo, but it looked to me like as of late it was even more improved. So I just checked to see if we are getting digital feed. No such luck!

I'm pretty sure that they are upconverting analog to digital since we are still getting analog.

This is all kind of interesting, I agree with you that channels under 15 do not give the same appearance as those above! And mine are analog, still PCM 48. I wonder what's up with that?

And the CSR was quickly forthcoming on the "we know about the problem and are working on it" line, and didn't once try to figure out if it was something requiring a truck roll...

Yes, I think in this case they were being honest. Must have been a problem at your headend.

Thanks, WKYC!! For canning the Olympics so we can watch the Cleveland Clowns get mauled by the Detroit Lions!!! :rolleyes:

Thanks, WKYC!! For canning the Olympics so we can watch the Cleveland Clowns get mauled by the Detroit Lions!!! :rolleyes:

B**ch, b**ch, b**ch! You could have watched the womens basketball win the gold on one of the other channels. There was baseball on FOX and wrestling on another Olympic channel. There was also Little League baseball in HD.

Stop being such a baby, geeze. And of course the Browns got their butts kicked.

Once again what do L.A. and Cleveland have in common? Neither has a professional football team:D

It's only pre season and WKYC has a contract to show the Browns games. They had no choice.

The only thing that bugs me about it is on the news all we're going to hear about is Romeo sucks and he should be fired, like he's the one playing. Let's wait until they suck in the regular season then fire Romeo, because on paper they should have a decent team.

Thanks, WKYC!! For canning the Olympics so we can watch the Cleveland Clowns get mauled by the Detroit Lions!!! :rolleyes:

It's a typical WKYC thing. Last Spring they ran Indians games over the Stanley Cup and look where the Indians are now.

And that's what pisses me off about WKYC. Why didn't they move the Olympics to the Weather Plus channel? That is supposed to be the upside of multicasting, one station broadcasts two separate channels. Why not use it for good? But no, WKYC wasn't smart enough to do that. That makes too much sense! And it continues. I see Monday WKYC id dumping new NBC programming for the Indians. I don't mind that time because the program being dumped is that dreadful new reality show "America's Toughest Jobs", an awful ripoff of the excellent Discovery Channel/Mike Rowe show "Dirty Jobs". But I'm a little pissed that Deal or No Deal is at 2 in the morning:(!

It's a typical WKYC thing. Last Spring they ran Indians games over the Stanley Cup and look where the Indians are now.

It's not like they have a choice. They have a contract with the Indians too. They are not an NBC owned station so they do not have to show what's on the network.

I went to a hockey game once. Had a great time, went with 5 girls to a L.A. Kings game. Didn't understand a darn thing about what was going on but these girls brought in some brandy and I had a great time! Tried to get into hockey after that but never could.

Why didn't they move the Olympics to the Weather Plus channel?

Don't know, but I'm guessing that the since the weather channel is in sd that could be one reason. The other reason is just to piss you off.:p:D

Thanks WKYC! Now I get to see Indians in HD. :)

Actually, the anger should be falling on TW if anyone. Since they should have an "alternate" NBC station available to watch for when WKYC is not showing national NBC content. Untill just recently, since TW clened up the QAM, I WAS actully getting THREE different NBC stations. Yes, three. There was WKYC-HD and weather+. Then in digital sd, there were to more affiliates. You could probably guess what they were. I can't really remember....but ya, they were there. So those stations are IN the system. All TW has to do is open them up.

...that dreadful new reality show "America's Toughest Jobs", an awful ripoff of the excellent Discovery Channel/Mike Rowe show "Dirty Jobs".

Another Dirty Jobs fan here. That man is absolutely fearless, and so is his crew. :cool:

Thanks WKYC! Now I get to see Indians in HD. :)

Actually, the anger should be falling on TW if anyone. Since they should have an "alternate" NBC station available to watch for when WKYC is not showing national NBC content. Untill just recently, since TW clened up the QAM, I WAS actully getting THREE different NBC stations. Yes, three. There was WKYC-HD and weather+. Then in digital sd, there were to more affiliates. You could probably guess what they were. I can't really remember....but ya, they were there. So those stations are IN the system. All TW has to do is open them up.

The fact that they can do it doesn't mean they are allowed to do it.

It's kind of like a black out situation. Now I'm no legal eagle but I gotta believe that there is a clause in that contract with the Browns and the Tribe that prohibits them from broadcasting something else. Therefore the only ones who would be able to see this would be people who have QAM and can see these signals.

The fact that they can do it doesn't mean they are allowed to do it.

It's kind of like a black out situation. Now I'm no legal eagle but I gotta believe that there is a clause in that contract with the Browns and the Tribe that prohibits them from broadcasting something else. Therefore the only ones who would be able to see this would be people who have QAM and can see these signals.

What Hookbill said. Therfe are a lot of rules sorrounding retransmission consent, and an operator can't just drop in another network affiliate on a whim.

Don't know, but I'm guessing that the since the weather channel is in sd that could be one reason. The other reason is just to piss you off.:p:D

I'd take SD Olympics over losing Clowns any day! Somebody has done this before. Maybe WKYC or WOIO. I remember having other programming shown on the digital subchannel. Once during severe winter weather WOIO has their 19 Action News simulcast on 19-2.

Continuing the tradition...

Thanks WEWS! Now I get to see Cinderella Man in digital widescreen!! So much better than ABC HD's "Madagascar" in HD. Bravo, Bravo! Soon as WYTV-DT goes full power...

Thanks WKYC! Now I get to see Indians in HD. :)

Actually, the anger should be falling on TW if anyone. Since they should have an "alternate" NBC station available to watch for when WKYC is not showing national NBC content. Untill just recently, since TW clened up the QAM, I WAS actully getting THREE different NBC stations. Yes, three. There was WKYC-HD and weather+. Then in digital sd, there were to more affiliates. You could probably guess what they were. I can't really remember....but ya, they were there. So those stations are IN the system. All TW has to do is open them up.

NO! What you were seeing is a digital simulcast of the same thing.

3-1_WKYC DT1
3-2_WKYC DT-2-WX Plus

Then there's also channel 3 in analog for TVs without boxes and a digital SD version of WKYC for TVs with boxes. They may have put that digital SD version in the clear as well. All three of these "WKYCs" would have the same programming. The only solution is to aim that antenna towards Youngstown.

Thanks, WKYC!! For canning the Olympics so we can watch the Cleveland Clowns get mauled by the Detroit Lions!!! :rolleyes:
Was the game SD or HD?

NO! What you were seeing is a digital simulcast of the same thing.

3-1_WKYC DT1
3-2_WKYC DT-2-WX Plus

Then there's also channel 3 in analog for TVs without boxes and a digital SD version of WKYC for TVs with boxes. They may have put that digital SD version in the clear as well. All three of these "WKYCs" would have the same programming. The only solution is to aim that antenna towards Youngstown.

Nope!... they were different NBC stations. Different call letters, different news, different local commercials, ect... ect...
I remember clearly watching one of them on Saturday mornings because there were no "Saturday morning cartoons" on for my kids because wkyc was all infomercials :rolleyes:. The other NBC affiliates had some cartoons on. I also had an extra ABC network too, but no extra CBS. I think the one NBC station was down near Wheeling WV, can't remember where the other one was from. I think I had the channels for at least 6 months, maybe a year. Since TW started organizing and cleaning up the QAM stuff several months ago, those stations are now gone.

Was the game SD or HD?

HD. Not bad for a local production. If you've seen Sportstime Ohio, the graphics looked similar to that. WKYC usually does good work on local sports, unfortunately the teams don't match the quality of the production:(.

Nope!... they were different NBC stations. Different call letters, different news, different local commercials, ect... ect...
I remember clearly watching one of them on Saturday mornings because there were no "Saturday morning cartoons" on for my kids because wkyc was all infomercials :rolleyes:. The other NBC affiliates had some cartoons on. I also had an extra ABC network too, but no extra CBS. I think the one NBC station was down near Wheeling WV, can't remember where the other one was from. I think I had the channels for at least 6 months, maybe a year. Since TW started organizing and cleaning up the QAM stuff several months ago, those stations are now gone.

Then I honestly don't know. TWC works in mysterious ways. On the Navigator's "new advanced search feature" I've seen listings for "NBC 24 News" and "10 News HD" and "First News AM" but when I press Select it just says no upcoming airings of this show. So the data is in the system for the various different affiliates in the NE Ohio system. They could realistically have crossed some wires and sent other channels through here.

After the Navigator change over, some of the metadata on older recordings was messed up. Several shows said channel "65535" and a few episodes of "Rob & Big" from MTV2 said they were recorded on "WYFX-DT", according to the guide(???)!

HD.Hmmm. On Comcast in Detroit, we got it in SD, in real time on NFL Network SD, and then after the game was over it was on a local station in SD.

But, NFL Network HD was blacked out.

Hmmm. On Comcast in Detroit, we got it in SD, in real time on NFL Network SD, and then after the game was over it was on a local station in SD.

But, NFL Network HD was blacked out.

The Browns have a contract with WKYC to show their preseason games. I don't know what the situation is for the Lions as far as local pre season broadcast but it would seem strange that a local channel would not have signed for the rights. Then again I don't know how big football is in Detroit as compared to Cleveland.

Usually in most major cities one channel signs the rights to carry the local broadcast. Obviously WKYC didn't want to use the crummy NFL channel broadcast and went in with their own equipment. So nobody in Detroit has rights to Lions preseason? Very odd.

Still the fact that NFL Network carried the broadcast and local channels were blacked out until after the broadcast seems strange. However the fact that NFL Network didn't carry it in HD doesn't surprise me at all. The short time it was around here I didn't see a heck of a lot of HD games anyway.

And when you say it was "blacked out" are you saying you couldn't even get the SD with sidebars? That's simply comcrapstick!;)

It's not like they have a choice. They have a contract with the Indians too. They are not an NBC owned station so they do not have to show what's on the network.

I went to a hockey game once. Had a great time, went with 5 girls to a L.A. Kings game. Didn't understand a darn thing about what was going on but these girls brought in some brandy and I had a great time! Tried to get into hockey after that but never could.

WKYC only shows a few baseball games each season, they should have known about NBC's Stanley Cup schedule before they chose what baseball games they would broadcast. Likewise they and the NFL should have been aware of the Olympics!

staying or going after today when the Olymipics are over.

I don't watch much on there but if they can have it on during the Olympics why can't they keep it on there as another option for their HD customers

WKYC only shows a few baseball games each season, they should have known about NBC's Stanley Cup schedule before they chose what baseball games they would broadcast. Likewise they and the NFL should have been aware of the Olympics!

Let's see, was Cleveland in the Stanley Cups? OMG, Cleveland doesn't have a team in the NHL!;)

Point taken. But here's the thing. Ask me if I would rather watch the Tribe, as bad as they are, or a Hockey game, I don't care if it is the Stanley Cup I'll watch the Tribe.

You're under the assumption that more people would watch the Stanley Cup then the Tribe, who at that time was still at least "considered" to be a possible contender. And heck, how was WKYC going to know that the Tribe was going to suck at the time of the Stanley Cup?

When did hockey come back, wern't they gone for like two years?

staying or going after today when the Olymipics are over.

I don't watch much on there but if they can have it on during the Olympics why can't they keep it on there as another option for their HD customers

Who knows? But this may be a good time to play the Steve Fry card. Simply say it would be unfair for them to pull it now that we all got use to it.

Anyway if you send Steve Fry an email you will get a true answer to your question, not from Mr. Fry himself but probably from one of the higher ups. It will be better then asking a CSR.

I'll be sending mine right after lunch!:)

steve.fry@twcable.com

staying or going after today when the Olymipics are over.

I don't watch much on there but if they can have it on during the Olympics why can't they keep it on there as another option for their HD customers

Oh boy. Here we go again. :D

Oh boy. Here we go again. :D

Now what the heck do you mean by that?:confused:

Lunch is over:

Dear Mr. Fry,

Please tell me that you are not going to pull USA in HD now that the Olympics are over. That's so unfair to your customers, it's like dangling a piece of meat in front of a hungry dog and pulling it away!

OK, maybe not that bad but you get my point. What with Direct TV literally kicking the you know what out of you in HD selections please don't pull this. We deserve more HD as well, and yes, I know in time about SDV and all that but you and I both know that's not right around the corner.

I'd like to set up my Season Passes on my TiVo to certain shows on USA, so can you at least let me know if you are going to make it a keeper?

Thanks for listening,

hookbill,
acct#,
phone number

Oh boy. Here we go again. :D

Indeed. Everyone seems to want something for nothing now-a-days. :rolleyes::D

OK, let's clear up a few misconceptions right now.

1) Hookbill is correct. WKYC has a contract with the Browns and with the Indians to carry their games. There are four pre-season Browns games this year, and only the Giants game was carried by a national carrier (ESPN).

2) To that effect, the NFL Network broadcast of the Browns/Lions game wasn't the primary broadcast. NFL Network actually rebroadcasts local games in pre-season, and doesn't actually produce the pre-season games. A couple of years ago, when the former Adelphia had NFL Network, I actually saw a Browns pre-season game with a New York team (think it was the Giants), and the telecast was produced by the New York CBS O&O.

Of course, NFL Network does produce its own games in the regular season, but not in pre-season.

I don't know which telecast NFL Network picked up for Browns/Lions, but they didn't produce it. I don't know who does the Lions pre-season games in Detroit, but the locally produced Browns pre-season games are in HD on WKYC/3.

3) In what world does NBC allow WKYC to air the Olympics on Weather Plus? In what world do the Browns allow them to air the game on Weather Plus?

Typically, if the game is moved at all, it would be moved to another local over-air outlet. This just happened last night in Baltimore, where NBC affiliate and Ravens pre-season carrier WBAL/11 aired the Olympics, and ABC affiliate WMAR/2 carried the game.

WKYC apparently decided to bump 3 hours of the Olympics coverage instead of working out a deal with another station to air Browns/Lions.

Indeed. Everyone seems to want something for nothing now-a-days. :rolleyes::D

ROFLOL, Smarty-pants! Hey if we get this you benefit as well you know!

Like you got room to talk!:p:D

ROFLOL, Smarty-pants! Hey if we get this you benefit as well you know!
How's that?:confused:




Like you got room to talk!:p:D
:D;)

OK, let's clear up a few misconceptions right now.

1) Hookbill is correct.

'nuff said!:D

3) In what world does NBC allow WKYC to air the Olympics on Weather Plus? In what world do the Browns allow them to air the game on Weather Plus?

That happens in nickdawgs world.;)

WKYC apparently decided to bump 3 hours of the Olympics coverage instead of working out a deal with another station to air Browns/Lions.

I suppose that is true if you are on basic cable, but this town is a football town, I'm here to tell you! I mean it's a big time football town. I still don't understand why the original Browns moved. And for the average Joe in this area more people want to see the Browns. Fans here are passionate for this team. It sells out even when they lose.

Look at L.A. We had two football teams. We had the Raiders when they won a Super bowl and I think in all the years the Raiders were there maybe two home games were televised. They couldn't sell out that monstrosity known as the L.A. Coliseum, and if there was ever a bad place for sports that's got to be one of the worst.

So absolutely WKYC shows the Browns over whatever they had on the Olympics. Even a meaningless preseason game.

So absolutely WKYC shows the Browns over whatever they had on the Olympics. Even a meaningless preseason game.

Agreed. The Browns are 1, 1A and 1B in this market, and the Indians and Cavaliers have to fight over 2. Always has been, and interest in the team is at a new high because of their success last year. Let's hope they remember how to win again when the games start counting...

I was looking into the Ravens (spit) situation, and the Olympics on WBAL (normal Ravens carrier) outdrew the Ravens on temporary-home WMAR by a large margin.

However, the Ravens game likely contained a lot of local spots, and that's a lot of money for WBAL (which still produced the game).

WKYC is very serious about its sports contracts, and I can see why they didn't move the game. And as such, it didn't compete with their own Olympics coverage. I'd assume NBC would not allow the Olympics to be moved to another station no matter WHAT the situation was.

They were fortunate with the pre-season schedule that only one game ran into the Olympics, due to the Giants game being on ESPN...and WJW already bought the (separate) rights to air it locally.

I just took a little look at the crystal ball known as www.zap2it.com. It shows USA HD on for tonight and into the late night/early morning, however there are no listings for Monday night. Not just no listings, no channel. Which means more then likely this is the last night.:mad:

anyone else seeing it not in HD today and not in full screen like all the other HD Channels are

maybe this is a sign..that USA is going Bye Bye

anyone else seeing it not in HD today and not in full screen like all the other HD Channels are

maybe this is a sign..that USA is going Bye Bye

Did you not read the post above your's?:confused: Yes, they are taking it away.:mad:

Did you not read the post above your's?:confused: Yes, they are taking it away.:mad:

MY BAD................

and you wonder why TW is losing customers

anyone else seeing it not in HD today and not in full screen like all the other HD Channels are

maybe this is a sign..that USA is going Bye Bye

They were doing that yesterday as well. I think the Law & Order CI episodes just weren't HD for some reason. SVU episodes, movies, Psych and Becker were all HD later on as well as Olympics.

Why are you such a buzzkill, Hookbill? Don't always take those online sources as 100% accurate. Titan TV thinks TWC Akron is still on the old lineup. None of the new channels are there. Navigator gives me USA HD listings through this week. Only the Olympic channels say "Sign Off". And Universal HD channel is still turned on.