............Edit: I just hit post 3400!

Also since Navigator has turned out to be such a big hit :rolleyes:, I've gone back to my old signature.

*bows* to the posting prowess of hookbill. You are TWICE the man I am!

I remember the old analog cable days when you could order a PPV, after the PPV program you would simply unplug the coax cable for a few hours, then plug it back in. By doing so you would avoid the "hit" sent by the cable co to turn off PPV at your STB resulting in free PPV (that ch only) for quite a while.

Eventually they would send a random "hit" and it would stop working, but this could be weeks or months later. With the digital systems now I presume it's more sophisticated and this probably wouldn't work.

I'm guessing something similar is what G3VIZIO is experiencing with his free ch's. Eventually they'll go away as nickdawg suggested.

It'll be gone soon enough. Just get as much recorded from those channels while you can. ;)

Had the same happen when we first got the 8300HDC here as a first time HD owner and got quite a few HD movies recorded from the big 3 premium movie providers.

I've had the box for about 4 months now.

I've had the box for about 4 months now.

Let me re-phrase that..I've had the box for 4 months..only after I rebooted it did I start getting premium channels..I'm sure we-ve had at least one power interuption since then so it's not the first time it's been re-booted.

Let me re-phrase that..I've had the box for 4 months..only after I rebooted it did I start getting premium channels..I'm sure we-ve had at least one power interuption since then so it's not the first time it's been re-booted.

So are you suggesting that if you reboot again after they turn it off you may get it again? I'd try it.;)

Tribe not in HD tonight from Kansas City? STOHD looks like 16:9 480p here on D* channel 662-1.

I remember this happening before on a game from KC.

Friday nights game was in widescreen SD but Saturdays game was HD. I wonder what the Friday problem was.

So are you suggesting that if you reboot again after they turn it off you may get it again? I'd try it.;)

I haven't had the premium channels until this last re-boot.

channel #s ????

even thought it says STO I get TNT and the other way around when I click in the TNT channel #

channel #s ????

even thought it says STO I get TNT and the other way around when I click in the TNT channel #

Don't know what you're looking at by STO HD is still on 435 and TNT HD is on 441, right where they have always been. Well, at least since the realignment.:)

Are you talking about SD? Or is this another one of those Navigator issues?

I haven't had the premium channels until this last re-boot.

I understood what you said. What I was saying is if they take it away from you will you reboot again to see if you can get it again?

Don't know what you're looking at by STO HD is still on 435 and TNT HD is on 441, right where they have always been. Well, at least since the realignment.:)

Are you talking about SD? Or is this another one of those Navigator issues?

Didn't Vchat20 have this exact same problem earlier in the thread? Yep, he did:

TNTHD(ch441) views STOHD and STOHD(ch435) views TNTHD. Dunno if it's yet another mystro bug or a headend mixup. In the legacy TW area over here in Warren.


It must be a bug A) with Navigator and/or B) over in the eastern part of the TWC system.

As before, I have STOHD and TNTHD on their proper channels. Former Adelphia area, TWC/Cleveland, SARA on my SA8000HD.

Didn't Vchat20 have this exact same problem earlier in the thread? Yep, he did:



It must be a bug A) with Navigator and/or B) over in the eastern part of the TWC system.

As before, I have STOHD and TNTHD on their proper channels. Former Adelphia area, TWC/Cleveland, SARA on my SA8000HD.

If it's the eastern part that's where I am. Well, Southeast. But I'm out of the Concord headend.

If they can't punch the channel in manually then it's as you say. That would mean they have Navigator. If they can punch in the channel though it would mean that it's a guide error.

Anyone else seeing issues with the OTA Chan 19 feed? Actually, both OTA and Dish HD are pixelizing ... OTA moreso.

Of course, I should check the OTA outdoor ant. Could be a flock of parrots roosting on it.

Anyone else seeing issues with the OTA Chan 19 feed? Actually, both OTA and Dish HD are pixelizing ... OTA moreso.

Of course, I should check the OTA outdoor ant. Could be a flock of parrots roosting on it.

Hey, don't blame me. Mine are all in their cages!;)

Anyone else seeing issues with the OTA Chan 19 feed? Actually, both OTA and Dish HD are pixelizing ... OTA moreso.

Of course, I should check the OTA outdoor ant. Could be a flock of parrots roosting on it.

I am seeing breakups on Chan 19 HD via DirecTV. NFL Today pregame and the Texans/Steelers game. During the pregame it was so bad I switched to the SD channel 19 on DirecTV. Not able to check OTA to verify.

Its on DirecTV and OTA on channel 19. I have been having this problem with WOIO on some evening network shows as well over the past couple of weeks.
The problem is most definte on channel 19's end and I hope they do something about it but they have always seem to be a shoestring operation IMO.

Its on DirecTV and OTA on channel 19. I have been having this problem with WOIO on some evening network shows as well over the past couple of weeks.
The problem is most definte on channel 19's end and I hope they do something about it but they have always seem to be a shoestring operation IMO.

I watched a recording of Swingtown last night and and episode of Big Brother. Both had problems with pixelation and kind of a weird speed up thing from time to time.

I just rebooted my TiVo because of that, but I was pretty sure it was a broadcast problem as I replayed the same areas and the same thing happened. You guys are confirming that. Thanks.

I am seeing breakups on Chan 19 HD via DirecTV. NFL Today pregame and the Texans/Steelers game. During the pregame it was so bad I switched to the SD channel 19 on DirecTV. Not able to check OTA to verify.

I'm getting the occasional breakups on WOIO-DT via TWC cable 404 during the game this afternoon.

So, I'm guessing that the problem lies with "Cleveland's CBS 19", not with the delivery method.

With 1:30 to go in the half Texans/Steelers, the WOIO breakups are REALLY bad. The screen went all green and black at one point.

They better not screw up the Browns game!

With 1:30 to go in the half Texans/Steelers, the WOIO breakups are REALLY bad. The screen went all green and black at one point.

They better not screw up the Browns game!

They won't be airing the Browns game. It's on FOX 8, since the Cowboys (NFC) are the away team. :D

It's a tad late, but I just found out...HBO/Cinemax is doing a free preview this weekend.

I'm getting all the HBO/Cinemax channels on TWC/Cleveland, including both HD channels.

I did too. During the first year. It was part of the promotional package.:rolleyes:

Don't they still give that to everyone for one year? Then in hopes that you will forget, which I didn't, they send you this humongous bill that has been know to cause heart attacks and strokes in customers.

And you want to know what else those crooks did to me? Because I realized that the time was up (I had 3 weeks left) I called to cancel the additional channels. Since I "cancelled my promo early", I was charged for 1 week for all additional channels.:mad:

To be fair that was the old crooks, Adelphia. Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss - Pete Townsend (The Who)

Edit: I just hit post 3400!

Also since Navigator has turned out to be such a big hit :rolleyes:, I've gone back to my old signature.

I guess we can say Hookbill "Won't Get Fooled Again" by the cable company. :p :D :)

Didn't Vchat20 have this exact same problem earlier in the thread? Yep, he did:



It must be a bug A) with Navigator and/or B) over in the eastern part of the TWC system.

As before, I have STOHD and TNTHD on their proper channels. Former Adelphia area, TWC/Cleveland, SARA on my SA8000HD.

It must have been a navigator bug somewhere along the line cause a reboot fixed that issue a couple days ago. *shrug* Still no clue how a mess like that would even take place. Just can't see it technically. I don't ever recall the two channels being on the same QAM or anything.

It's a tad late, but I just found out...HBO/Cinemax is doing a free preview this weekend.

I'm getting all the HBO/Cinemax channels on TWC/Cleveland, including both HD channels.

Yeah, I noticed it too. RIGHT NOW! I already get HBO anyway(Real Time with Bill Maher) so it wasn't unusual that HBO was on. I've never subscribed to Cinemax so I don't even look at those channels. TWC really hit a new low. They didn't even tell us they were doing a free preview.

Now, about that free channels thing. It was not something I subscribed to. It was completely a mistake. Whenever you get a new box from TWC everything comes set to the default settings and all the channels are on. Until the box is "told" what you subscribe to, all the channels are on. Many years back(around 2002) when I got a new digital box I actually had all the channels for free. And it lasted almost a year. Now, when I dumped that POS OCAP box last year for a regular 8300HD I again had all the channels on. This only lasted a few weeks, since everything was shut off after TWC did some channel changes. :(

Yeah, I noticed it too. RIGHT NOW! I already get HBO anyway(Real Time with Bill Maher) so it wasn't unusual that HBO was on. I've never subscribed to Cinemax so I don't even look at those channels. TWC really hit a new low. They didn't even tell us they were doing a free preview.

(

The free preview weekends never seem to get a promo and I don't understand why. Usually Premium channels will put their top notch stuff up there to entice you to sign but TW doesn't promo it, neither did Adelphia.

They used to advertise more. I remember about four years ago when the Kirstie Alley show "Fat Actress" premiered on Showtime. TWC had a full page ad in the paper about it and the preview week and they even opened up channel 79 on analog for Showtime. It was crazy, Showtime on analog!!

It must have been a navigator bug somewhere along the line cause a reboot fixed that issue a couple days ago. *shrug* Still no clue how a mess like that would even take place. Just can't see it technically. I don't ever recall the two channels being on the same QAM or anything.

I think Navigator IS a bug, but I won't go too far with that, as two people in here will run with it ;)

I believe the HBO/Cinemax free preview is pretty much on every provider...it's not something TWC is doing on its own.

I think Navigator IS a bug, but I won't go too far with that, as two people in here will run with it ;)

Does any one particular person come to mind?;)

I believe the HBO/Cinemax free preview is pretty much on every provider...it's not something TWC is doing on its own.

True, and I'm not a business man but it would seem to me that if TW was smart they would pop in on stations like TNT and others where they have there little local commercials and say "Join us this weekend for a free preview."

If you want to sell something of this nature it would seem like a golden opportunity. Much better then calling customer service and having a CSR say, "Hey, I notice you don't have Cinemax. Would you like to add that?"

I'm really feeling the pain of losing USA HD tonight. I turned on the House marathon on USA tonight. It was horrible. I miss USA HD. The SD digital PQ is not that hot. Plus it looks awful windowboxed(black bars on the top and sides).

I really feel bad for Hookbill and the former Adelphia areas that are still using an analog version of USA. I can't even imagine going from USA HD to USA analog. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Just curious, why does it seem that WKYC has their own 16:9 SD crew covering the Browns game, and shows those highlights on the news instead of using Fox's HD coverage of the game today? Is this the same crew that does the in house video at the stadium?

BTW - the big screen at Browns Stadium is far from HD quality - would be nice to see that upgraded someday. Maybe after they beat the Steelers next week :p

I would assume so paule123. I know that at least in the case for Indians home games and STO, it's all technically inhouse at WKYC so I would think the Browns stadium would be in a similar situation. As such, it's much cheaper to use their own clips than license them from Fox. ;)

I'm really feeling the pain of losing USA HD tonight. I turned on the House marathon on USA tonight. It was horrible. I miss USA HD. The SD digital PQ is not that hot. Plus it looks awful windowboxed(black bars on the top and sides).

I really feel bad for Hookbill and the former Adelphia areas that are still using an analog version of USA. I can't even imagine going from USA HD to USA analog. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

While I appreciate your sentiments nickdawg, there are two things to consider here.

First digital does not necessarily mean a better pictue then digital. Some of the high tech guys can explain that like Inundated. Our locals are analog upgraded to digital but I never watch the digital versions unless it's a show I'm recording that doesn't have Dolby 5.1 to save disk space.

Second from the moment I got my S3 I immediately noticed improved pq on analog channels. Now HD is a whole different ball game so when you say USA HD heck yes there is a difference in pq. But to be honest with you the shows I watch on USA look pretty good. HD quality? No way but decent, absolutely.

And maybe it's just me but I think there is a bit of loss of pq on the mirror channels.

It's a tad late, but I just found out...HBO/Cinemax is doing a free preview this weekend.

I'm getting all the HBO/Cinemax channels on TWC/Cleveland, including both HD channels.
Cox Cleveland also had the HBO preview. 12 HBO channels and almost nothing good to watch. Lots of Christmas movies but it's just September. If the had done a good scheduling job we might have subscribed.

Two things:

1) Local TV stations frequently send their own crews to cover a major sporting event, so they have their own video. This is nothing new, though the 16:9 SD is fairly new.

The NFL has put what could be called draconian measures into place preventing stations from using more than a certain amount of even their own video. And they've also limited the number of local TV news crews shooting at the games, I believe...though I think they eased up on that this year.

2) Digital SD is not always "better" than analog on cable. You could well have a strong, clean analog signal that looks better - if the cable system compresses its SD/digital feed to within an inch of its life. You lose the snow, but gain compression artifacts.

I noticed an improvement in the analog channels recently, after TWC had that problem where many of 'em were breaking up. I wonder if a faulty piece of equipment being replaced resulted in that. Even the analog channels that weren't affected that weekend are better.

Cox Cleveland also had the HBO preview. 12 HBO channels and almost nothing good to watch. Lots of Christmas movies but it's just September. If the had done a good scheduling job we might have subscribed.

I think HBO may have done this to promote their new season of originals. I think Entourage premiered along with their new show "True Blood".

If that's Fox Sports Net HD, I don't think that they have had any programing since the basketball season ended.
Well, FSN Ohio HD is back with college football games. I cought part of one Saturday night. FSNO HD just popped onto my EPG a few days ago (E* 642).

WINNER:

I know I like to frequently bash WEWS, but today I give them a "good job". Oprah began HD syndication today and WEWS is keeping up with the times and showing it in HD. Unfortunately the crap generator is running at full speed, even on the HD channel :mad:, but I'll over look that because of the great technical accomplishment of showing syndicated HD.

LOSER:

WKYC has once again proven to be complete garbage. Ellen was also set tp begin HD syndication today. Is it HD on WKYC? NO!! Get with the times WKYC!!! The only thing you're good for is preempting Deal or No Deal for crap and your newscast as a sleep aid when I run out of booze!! You earn a big, giant,

FAIL!!


nickdawg watches Oprah.

You actually came in here and said this. Unbelieveable.:rolleyes:

BTW the name of the thread is Cleveland, Local HD. If you like maybe we can have it changed to the nickdawg b**ch and moan thread.

And I happen to like channel 3 news. And channel 5. For comedy there is nothing like channel 19. And if you constantly want to hear about American Idol, there is FOX 8, who's slogan should be "All American Idol Promos, All The Time."

nickdawg watches Oprah.

You actually came in here and said this. Unbelieveable.:rolleyes:

She had the Olympic athletes on. Plus it was the first time it was HD. I'm not a regular viewer. When they talk about chick stuff, the channel gets changed faster than you can say "parrot".

Maybe you don't see the significance of this. You see Oprah is a huge icon in America. Many, many people watch her show. When someone as huge as Oprah goes HD, it's a huge step forward. Since said show is in demand, the HD version will be in demand as well. This will lead to more stations upgrading to HD recording/broadcast equipment, which means more HD shows. WEWS upgraded a few years back when Wheel and Jeopardy went HD. This makes them open to show more HD programming when it becomes available. I'd like to see the CSI:Miami and CSI:NY repeats on Saturday and Sunday in HD. Maybe even movies.

Speaking of 19 comedy, what possessed 19 to dump CBS Tennis to WOIO-DT 2 and show news and now Millionaire in SD on the main HD channel?

BTW the name of the thread is Cleveland, Local HD. If you like maybe we can have it changed to the nickdawg b**ch and moan thread.


Now, now, hookbill, in this case he's actually "moaning" about local HD broadcasts of syndicated shows, or lack thereof. Give the guy a break.

And I'm not a regular or even semi-regular "Oprah" or "Ellen" viewer, but I knew they were going HD starting today...and was going to check solely because I wanted to see if the locals picked up the HD feeds.

Since we know WEWS can record satellite HD ("Wheel", "Jeopardy"), I'm not surprised they had "Oprah" in HD, and I think it's probably even on the same satellite channel as the game shows (King World).

And I'm not surprised WKYC didn't have "Ellen" in HD, since it'd be their first recorded HD show if they did.

Ellen was not in HD.

However, WKYC DID show Dr Phil in HD (right after Ellen) as well as Entertainment Tonight in HD at 7:30.

So it appears that they (WKYC) do have the ability to show recorded shows in HD. Perhaps Monday's show was just a fluke that it wasn't shown in HD.

Ellen was not in HD.

However, WKYC DID show Dr Phil in HD (right after Ellen) as well as Entertainment Tonight in HD at 7:30.

So it appears that they (WKYC) do have the ability to show recorded shows in HD. Perhaps Monday's show was just a fluke that it wasn't shown in HD.

Really? I wasn't home until later after Dr. Phil and ET wasn't on my radar(found out about that one and the Insider later). That's good news. I've read that they re-sent Ellen to affiliates several times yesterday because technical problems.

We'll have to see today. Nickdawg may be doing some post deleting. :o

No HD Ellen again!! I will be sticking around to check out Dr. Phil and ET today.

No HD Ellen again!! I will be sticking around to check out Dr. Phil and ET today.

So I checked just to make sure. It is supposed to be in HD.

http://www.wkyc.com/

Send them an email. Or get their phone number and call them.

Dr. Phil is on in HD right now.

Post editing time.

Dr. Phil is on in HD right now.

Post editing time.

Well, perhaps they don't like people who are gay?

Ellen: Gay

Dr. Phil: Not gay

What a bunch of bigots!:rolleyes:

Since we know WEWS can record satellite HD ("Wheel", "Jeopardy"), I'm not surprised they had "Oprah" in HD, and I think it's probably even on the same satellite channel as the game shows (King World).

I don't think they actually "record" Wheel & Jeopardy. I'm willing to bet these shows are fed via satellite. The "recording" is at the satellite uplink center and not at WEWS. When we see these syndicated shows in HD we are watching a live satellite feed.

Now this is speculation on my part, however I have evidence that this may be the case. The evidence is that whenever any HD programming is delayed on WEWS, the delayed programs are in SD 4X3. That is, the last time I've seen a delayed program on WEWS (it's been awhile). So perhaps they can record in HD today (in fact they do show the repeat of the 11 PM news in HD), it's just the syndicated and ABC programs in delay that had been SD at least the last time I watched.

I'm actually quite surprised cause isn't WKYC technically an NBC owned affiliate? You'd think it would be in their best interest under the watchful eye of the peacock to get all this correct right off the bat.

I can understand reverting to SD for weather alerts and such due to the equipment to do so in HD still being expensive and hard to come by, but there's no excuse for this. Especially if they are perfectly capable of airing the likes of Oprah and Dr. Phil in HD (which are both pre-recorded syndications AFAICR)

WKYC is owned by Gannett, not by NBC.

- Trip

I don't think they actually "record" Wheel & Jeopardy. I'm willing to bet these shows are fed via satellite. The "recording" is at the satellite uplink center and not at WEWS. When we see these syndicated shows in HD we are watching a live satellite feed.

Now this is speculation on my part, however I have evidence that this may be the case. The evidence is that whenever any HD programming is delayed on WEWS, the delayed programs are in SD 4X3. That is, the last time I've seen a delayed program on WEWS (it's been awhile). So perhaps they can record in HD today (in fact they do show the repeat of the 11 PM news in HD), it's just the syndicated and ABC programs in delay that had been SD at least the last time I watched.

DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner.

This makes perfect sense. According To WNBC Ellen is shown at 3:00. That is the national feed for the eastern part of the country. However here in Cleveland it isn't shown until 4:00 pm. That is why it's in SD.

Just like when the Browns play and they are not the nationally televised game, we get stuck with SD. Same case here with Ellen.

I don't think they actually "record" Wheel & Jeopardy. I'm willing to bet these shows are fed via satellite. The "recording" is at the satellite uplink center and not at WEWS. When we see these syndicated shows in HD we are watching a live satellite feed.

Now this is speculation on my part, however I have evidence that this may be the case. The evidence is that whenever any HD programming is delayed on WEWS, the delayed programs are in SD 4X3. That is, the last time I've seen a delayed program on WEWS (it's been awhile). So perhaps they can record in HD today (in fact they do show the repeat of the 11 PM news in HD), it's just the syndicated and ABC programs in delay that had been SD at least the last time I watched.

WEWS usually shows network programming that was bounced from primetime in SD. That seems to be normal practice. But I have seen a Jeopardy episode at 1AM in HD a few months back. Then again other times I've seen Whee and jeopardy in SD when it is moved to late night.

I always think it's fun when network programming is shown SD on the HD channel at night. Gives a good idea of how good SD digital cable COULD look if TWC used real digital versions of local channels.

DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner.

This makes perfect sense. According To WNBC Ellen is shown at 3:00. That is the national feed for the eastern part of the country. However here in Cleveland it isn't shown until 4:00 pm. That is why it's in SD.

Just like when the Browns play and they are not the nationally televised game, we get stuck with SD. Same case here with Ellen.

Then why don't they move Ellen? WKYC runs this awful show called "The Doctors" at 3pm. A real piece of &$%@. IF they are sending Ellen down in HD at 3PM, SHOW IT!!! But if it is live, then why would Dr. Phil be HD at 5PM? WCBS shows Dr. Phil at 3PM also, meaning it must be recorded here.

There's another issue in play here as well. Dr. Phil, Entertainment Tonight, Oprah, Wheel and Jeopardy are all CBS Paramount shows. Ellen is a Warner Brothers show.

If you guys want definite answers, why not just prod at a station engineer? God knows we have a handful floating around here. I know WFMJ's engineer lurks around and posts every so often.

Who knows? Maybe these shows are coming in as mpeg4 for HD and they don't have the available transcoders? A stretch, but as good a possibility as any posted already. *shrug*

I've seen other market engineers talking about it, and I got the impression that those shows are indeed recorded, somehow, by the appropriate HD recording equipment at the local station...either off the satellite, or via fiber/IP/whatever.

Now, if they're feeding "Ellen" at the time the station happens to be airing it, I presume they could go live. But since syndicated shows are bounced around the schedule and aired across the country at different times, at the behest of the local affiliate, the satellite uplink/transponders aren't feeding "Ellen", "Oprah", "Dr. Phil", etc. every hour all day long.

I get the impression that they're doing multiple feeds, but not each hour, all day.

WEWS can indeed record HD. I've also seen post-midnight Jeopardy repeats, at a time clearly controlled by the station (i.e. not on the hour/half hour, due to sports or other overrun). I haven't checked lately, but I'm pretty sure the late night repeat of "NewsChannel 5 at 11" is in HD, which would answer the question of recording capability in HD entirely.

WEWS can indeed record HD. I've also seen post-midnight Jeopardy repeats, at a time clearly controlled by the station (i.e. not on the hour/half hour, due to sports or other overrun). I haven't checked lately, but I'm pretty sure the late night repeat of "NewsChannel 5 at 11" is in HD, which would answer the question of recording capability in HD entirely.

I think WKYC can also record HD. If you see their local news promos they are HD. During commercials I've seen the picture 'expand" to full screen and their news promos or talent commercials appear to be true HD. Plus the Mark Nolan special about Lake Erie that was on last year was produced in HD as well. All that stuff has to be recorded somewhere.

I don't think they actually "record" Wheel & Jeopardy. I'm willing to bet these shows are fed via satellite. The "recording" is at the satellite uplink center and not at WEWS. When we see these syndicated shows in HD we are watching a live satellite feed.

Syndicated programs are distributed via satellite usually a week in advance. They must be stored for rebroadcast at the date they're allowed to air the show and time the local affiliate has decided to air the show.

Syndicated programs are distributed via satellite usually a week in advance. They must be stored for rebroadcast at the date they're allowed to air the show and time the local affiliate has decided to air the show.

No, that's not unnecessarily true. Many of these shows are on current topics so they couldn't send them a week in advance.

Now I have never seen "Ellen" other when she accidentally came on if I had something else on the television so what you say may be true.

Then why don't they move Ellen? WKYC runs this awful show called "The Doctors" at 3pm. A real piece of &$%@. IF they are sending Ellen down in HD at 3PM, SHOW IT!!! But if it is live, then why would Dr. Phil be HD at 5PM? WCBS shows Dr. Phil at 3PM also, meaning it must be recorded here.

There's another issue in play here as well. Dr. Phil, Entertainment Tonight, Oprah, Wheel and Jeopardy are all CBS Paramount shows. Ellen is a Warner Brothers show.


When I lived in Northern Kentucky for some odd reason they would have Jeopardy before Wheel, coming from Cincinnati. Who knows?

When I lived in Northern Kentucky for some odd reason they would have Jeopardy before Wheel, coming from Cincinnati. Who knows?One time I saw the same thing at a bar on the east side (Jeopardy before Wheel). It turned out that the bar had a "BUD" (not the beer but a LARGE satellite dish). What they had on was one of the "Denver 5" stations that used to be available coast to coast to anyone with a BUD. The local stations don't like mere mortals watching some other city's stations if that station has the same network and/or syndicated programs.

Back to my previous comment about the live satellite feed of syndicated programming. I used to work in radio. There was a very popular syndicated program that is heard just about everywhere but at different times from station to station. That program was fed on a single satellite feed every half hour all day long. The local station never had to tape it since it came on like hot running water over the sat. Wheel & Jeopardy could be distributed in a similar fashon (although the difference in cost betwen an all-day long audio satellite feed vs an all-day long HD TV feed may make the practice on TV cost prohibitive).

WEWS looked like they screwed up the Bonnie Hunt talk show on Wednesday. It looked like they tried to run the HD feed of the show but instead it was the 16x9 version squished into a 4x3 pillar box. Everything was distorted.
Does anybody have an e-mail address for WEWS so I can report this blunder.
I can't believe they ran the show for an entire hour without correcting the Aspect Ratio. I saw the show on Monday and it was the 4x3 SD version on the HD channel.

I'm hoping they get their issue straightened out. I enjoy Bonnie Hunt but can't stand inane aspect ratio problems. Seriously,doesn't the MCO over their monitor what they are sending over the air?

WEWS looked like they screwed up the Bonnie Hunt talk show on Wednesday. It looked like they tried to run the HD feed of the show but instead it was the 16x9 version squished into a 4x3 pillar box. Everything was distorted.
Does anybody have an e-mail address for WEWS so I can report this blunder.
I can't believe they ran the show for an entire hour without correcting the Aspect Ratio. I saw the show on Monday and it was the 4x3 SD version on the HD channel.

I'm hoping they get their issue straightened out. I enjoy Bonnie Hunt but can't stand inane aspect ratio problems. Seriously,doesn't the MCO over their monitor what they are sending over the air?

try 5shows@newsnet5.com

I think WKYC can also record HD. If you see their local news promos they are HD. During commercials I've seen the picture 'expand" to full screen and their news promos or talent commercials appear to be true HD. Plus the Mark Nolan special about Lake Erie that was on last year was produced in HD as well. All that stuff has to be recorded somewhere.

Yeah, I've seen all of the above - I'm not sure that automatically translates to being able to record HD satellite-fed (or other) syndicated content for air later. I know they can't edit news video in true HD.

If they are indeed running Dr. Phil in HD, this one's solved, anyway.

Wheel & Jeopardy could be distributed in a similar fashon (although the difference in cost betwen an all-day long audio satellite feed vs an all-day long HD TV feed may make the practice on TV cost prohibitive).

Ding! We have a winner here.

Big radio syndicators like Clear Channel/Premiere feed around a dozen or so audio channels all the time, many of them filled day and night.

http://engineering.premiereradio.com/starguide/schedule/2008_Affiliate_Starguide_III_Schedule.pdf

Many of 'em are various 24/7 radio networks like FOX Sports Radio and the like.

But the difference between that and HDTV satellite feeds? Night and day.

WEWS looked like they screwed up the Bonnie Hunt talk show on Wednesday. It looked like they tried to run the HD feed of the show but instead it was the 16x9 version squished into a 4x3 pillar box. Everything was distorted.

Is Ms. Hunt's new show supposed to be in HD?

Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.

No, that's not unnecessarily true. Many of these shows are on current topics so they couldn't send them a week in advance.

Now I have never seen "Ellen" other when she accidentally came on if I had something else on the television so what you say may be true.

Sorry, I forgot about how current some of these shows are. When Wheel and Jeopardy went HD we learned about how those are distributed a week ahead of time on the Cincinnati thread. So while some of the other shows, depending on their timeliness, aren't distributed a week in advance, they're probably distributed at least a day in advance because I seriously doubt they're live streams.

Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.

I'm in North Ridgeville and mine's been down since the the 9.4 update hit my box in late July. I'm ready to dump Time Warner and TiVo at the end of this month when my free two months of TiVo expires that TiVo game me because of this problem. I'd be suprised if the problem is fixed any time soon. I'm in contact with the lead Time Warner tech as well and the last time I talked to him was about 2 weeks ago. He assured me that he would call me the moment he heard anything new about this problem. I've spent many hours myself with TiVo and TimeWarner, when the problem happened with multiple truck rolls and multiple calls to TiVo and Time Warner tech support. I posted this on the TiVo forum and after about a week a TiVo tech got a hold of me asking me to go through the same diagnostics that I went through with TiVo support when the problem first happened. I told them I'm not going to be their guinea pig anymore unless they give me a years worth of free TiVo. My time is money and I had already spent about 5-10 hours on this problem. Mind you, this is already after multiple truck rolls by Time Warner back in May just to install a multi-stream cable card in my TiVoHD, so I've probably spent about 15-20 hours of my own time trying to get it working since I first got my TiVoHD back in May. It's been a very frustrating exerience. I told TiVo I feel sorry for them that they have to rely on companies like Time Warner to sell their product. I'm quite sure it's something on Time Warner's end so I didn't follow up with the TiVo Tech after he rejected my request for free service for a year.

The good news is that a new TiVoHD box is coming to DirecTV next year. The bad news is that it's not coming until the 2nd half of next year.

Channel 3 is showing Entertainment Tonight in HD at 7:30pm so why ELLEN is being left out is a mystery.

Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.

Here's the deal. First it is not the update, that is what they are trying to blame it on. It's probably something with headend.

Now what's going on is there is a National Cable Hotline number which I won't give out because nobody but techs are suppose to call it. Working this number from like 9:00 am to 8:00 pm or something like that are 2 techs for the ENTIRE country. That's right, 2 techs that truly understand TiVo's.

So what do YOU do? You contact steve.fry@twcable.com with the same message you posted. You will get a call within 1 day and you will have techs that come out to fix your problem, and they will come out quickly in a schedule that is convenient for you.

Now the techs biggest problems are they simply don't know how to navigate through the cable card screens. They don't know where to look for the emm's and they also frequently don't follow the instructions to install one card, make sure it works, then install the second card. After that they have to call in both cable card numbers and have them paired.

Write down the numbers of the cable cards. They made a mistake reading one of mine back, it's easy to do.

Steve Fry is the President of TWC NEO and when I had my TiVo HD installed (I already had an S3) I wrote him and complained about the time it took for them to come out and the compentency of the techs.

Also did you have TiVo prior to 9.4? If that's the case pm me and I'll give you some other help.

Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.

Hi Jason,

I have an S-3 with cable cards and 9.4. It works fine for me so far.

Ben Music

I'm in North Ridgeville and mine's been down since the the 9.4 update hit my box in late July. I'm ready to dump Time Warner and TiVo at the end of this month when my free two months of TiVo expires that TiVo game me because of this problem. I'd be suprised if the problem is fixed any time soon. I'm in contact with the lead Time Warner tech as well and the last time I talked to him was about 2 weeks ago. He assured me that he would call me the moment he heard anything new about this problem. I've spent many hours myself with TiVo and TimeWarner, when the problem happened with multiple truck rolls and multiple calls to TiVo and Time Warner tech support. I posted this on the TiVo forum and after about a week a TiVo tech got a hold of me asking me to go through the same diagnostics that I went through with TiVo support when the problem first happened. I told them I'm not going to be their guinea pig anymore unless they give me a years worth of free TiVo. My time is money and I had already spent about 5-10 hours on this problem. Mind you, this is already after multiple truck rolls by Time Warner back in May just to install a multi-stream cable card in my TiVoHD, so I've probably spent about 15-20 hours of my own time trying to get it working since I first got my TiVoHD back in May. It's been a very frustrating exerience. I told TiVo I feel sorry for them that they have to rely on companies like Time Warner to sell their product. I'm quite sure it's something on Time Warner's end so I didn't follow up with the TiVo Tech after he rejected my request for free service for a year.

The good news is that a new TiVoHD box is coming to DirecTV next year. The bad news is that it's not coming until the 2nd half of next year.

Well this just sucks. We had the lead tech on the phone for North Ridgeville last night and he told me that since the 9.4 update came out he has 42 Cablecard/TiVo customers that are dead in the water. I just fired off a lengthy message to Mr. Fry. I even offerred to give them one of my TiVos for testing. This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth... :(

Well this just sucks. We had the lead tech on the phone for North Ridgeville last night and he told me that since the 9.4 upate came out he has 42 Cablecard/TiVo customers that are dead in the water. I just fired off a lengthy message to Mr. Fry. I even offerred to give them one of my TiVos for testing. This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth... :(

TW is famous for blaming TiVo instead of themselves. And as I said they only have two techs at the CABLE CARD HOTLINE available nationally! That's the outrage.

Both of my S3 and TiVoHD came through fine. address as well.

If you want, pm me with your phone number and I will give my headend person a call for you. I'll need your name and

Hi Jason,

I have an S-3 with cable cards and 9.4. It works fine for me so far.

Ben Music

Hi Ben,

Do you have two single stream cards in your S3? We tried that scenerio in my S3 and couldn't get all of the channels to display. I could get the Digital Basic and Local HD stations, but none of the expanded HD lineup (above 430). On my THD, we tried multistream cards and had even worse results.

Hi Ben,

Do you have two single stream cards in your S3? We tried that scenerio in my S3 and couldn't get all of the channels to display. I could get the Digital Basic and Local HD stations, but none of the expanded HD lineup (above 430). On my THD, we tried multistream cards and had even worse results.

Jason,

I have two single stream cards. I just rechecked the S-3 and all ch's including expanded HD and premiums (HBO etc) come in just fine.

Ben Music

Here's the deal. First it is not the update, that is what they are trying to blame it on. It's probably something with headend.

Now what's going on is there is a National Cable Hotline number which I won't give out because nobody but techs are suppose to call it. Working this number from like 9:00 am to 8:00 pm or something like that are 2 techs for the ENTIRE country. That's right, 2 techs that truly understand TiVo's.

So what do YOU do? You contact steve.fry@twcable.com with the same message you posted. You will get a call within 1 day and you will have techs that come out to fix your problem, and they will come out quickly in a schedule that is convenient for you.

Now the techs biggest problems are they simply don't know how to navigate through the cable card screens. They don't know where to look for the emm's and they also frequently don't follow the instructions to install one card, make sure it works, then install the second card. After that they have to call in both cable card numbers and have them paired.

Write down the numbers of the cable cards. They made a mistake reading one of mine back, it's easy to do.

Steve Fry is the President of TWC NEO and when I had my TiVo HD installed (I already had an S3) I wrote him and complained about the time it took for them to come out and the compentency of the techs.

Also did you have TiVo prior to 9.4? If that's the case pm me and I'll give you some other help.

Amazing... 15 minutes after I shot my email off to Steve Fry my phone rings and its the Lead Tech from TWC in my area. He was very happy to take me up on my offer to let them use my THD for a few days to get this ironed out. According to him, the TiVos do work perfectly well in other TWC NEO areas. So there is something unique to us over here on the west side that is causing the problem. Hopefully they can figure things out quickly. Thanks Hookbill. Stay tuned...

Good luck KennedyJ and let me know how you make out.

I have called the Time Warner National Cable Card support and they are very knowledgeable (especially compared to the regular Time Warner Tech Support), but they were not able to help me fix this problem.

Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.

If your problem isn't solved, the TW National Cable Card Hotline is 866.532.2598

If your problem isn't solved, the TW National Cable Card Hotline is 866.532.2598

Thanks magnani.

Thanks magnani.

Save yourself the time. I already called these guys and everything looked fine on their end. It's a good number to have for future reference though.

Thanks magnani.

Don't do it. I've go it on good authority that they will not help you and be pissed off if you call.

Sooka, go cause trouble in your own threads in the TiVo Forum, you don't even live around here.

KennedyJ this guy is nothing but a trouble maker. He goes by the name of Sooka in the TiVo Forum and his soul purpose of coming in here is to read what I write and then see if I wrote something similar at the TiVo Forum. If he figures it out he sends me PM's in the TiVo forum and tires to get me kicked, which doesn't do him any good but he's obsessed to the point of stalking me.

Go to the TiVo Forum and do a search on his name. You will see that just about every post he made is something negative towards me.

Don't do it. I've go it on good authority that they will not help you and be pissed off if you call.

Sooka, go cause trouble in your own threads in the TiVo Forum, you don't even live around here.

KennedyJ this guy is nothing but a trouble maker. He goes by the name of Sooka in the TiVo Forum and his soul purpose of coming in here is to read what I write and then see if I wrote something similar at the TiVo Forum. If he figures it out he sends me PM's in the TiVo forum and tires to get me kicked, which doesn't do him any good but he's obsessed to the point of stalking me.

Go to the TiVo Forum and do a search on his name. You will see that just about every post he made is something negative towards me.

Thanks for the heads up Hookbill.

Out of the 4 or 5 times I've called the Time Warner National cable card support only once did the guy ask me how I got the phone number. He still helped me troubleshoot my problem though. They've always been real friendly and helpfull to me. The Time Warner supervisor in downtown Cleveland gave me this number and told me I could call it. Maybe I just got lucky.

The main thing is that Time Warner has your TiVo box KennedyJ and they can troubleshoot it. That is our only hope I think.

Out of the 4 or 5 times I've called the Time Warner National cable card support only once did the guy ask me how I got the phone number. He still helped me troubleshoot my problem though. They've always been real friendly and helpfull to me. The Time Warner supervisor in downtown Cleveland gave me this number and told me I could call it. Maybe I just got lucky.

The main thing is that Time Warner has your TiVo box KennedyJ and they can troubleshoot it. That is our only hope I think.

It's not his only shot. The truth is they only have two guys working the entire nation. They are only suppose to help techs. I have a contact at TW headend and she told me about this and I have read it elsewhere. So if you call them you hang up other techs IF they decide to help you.

She also told me that there was an email sent out to these techs that if they get any calls directly from the public they need to contact customer service.

Steve Fry is his best bet. If these techs don't call that number then he can give it to them and say here, call these guys and tell them who they are. But he should not do it on his own.

Hookbill, you don't understand our situation on the West Side in Lorain County. Having the local head tech test his TiVo on our network is the only solution right now until proven to me otherwise. Our network is very, very complicated and has been bought out many times over the years by many different cable companies. I don't remember the first one, but it's since been bought out by At & T, Comcast and now Time Warner. All this has happened in probably less than 8 years. This problem with the cable card and TiVo is an isolated problem to my city and the surrounding cities.

You are right in one respect, Steve Fry got the ball rolling for us, but the National Cable Tech Support guys have not been able to fix the local problem we have on this local arcane network we are on. In the meantime if I have another cable card issue not related to this I'm going to call them until I'm told otherwise by Time Warner.

You are right in one respect, Steve Fry got the ball rolling for us, but the National Cable Tech Support guys have not been able to fix the local problem we have on this local arcane network we are on. In the meantime if I have another cable card issue not related to this I'm going to call them until I'm told otherwise by Time Warner.

I do not want to debate this issue on this forum for two reasons, the first is that the majority of people who are in this thread do not have TiVo's and could care less about our problems. The second is we have already been told by TW not to call this number, it's just that you personally have not been told this.

I am going to send you a pm and you and I can discuss this further.

All that I am saying that I've spent about 3+ hours on the phone with the National Time Warner Cable Card Support on two different occasions and everything looks fine on their end. The first time I called them directly and the 2nd time I did a three-way with TiVo Tech Support.

It seems to me that there is a compatibility issue with all these legacy networks that they are using together as one Time Warner Network in my area.

I just would hate to see someone in the same situation as me bang their head against the wall for 5-10 hours, between calls to tech support and truck rolls as I had to in early August only to come up with no fix.

I'd be interested to know if 2 single stream cable cards work like they seem to in my area for the TiVo Series 3 as Ben Music said. I was told that S-cards don't work in my area on the TiVoHD and that was before my problem occurred. Although, if I recall correctly, in one of my dozen truck rolls early this summer, I think we did try a S-Card because they didn't bring a m-card. It didn't work as I recall. But, I think that was with the new Scientific Atlanta Card and not the old Motorola Cards that Time Warner is phasing out. We could never get the SA s-card to work on my Sony PVR so a cable guy was able to finagle a Motorola SD Card and it worked. Maybe 2 Motorola S-Cards is the way to go to fix my problem.

KennedyJ, if you could PM me the head tech's number I would appreciate it. I lost his number. If you talk to him tell him to try two Motorola S-Cards. Ben Music, what kind of cable cards do you have in your S3?

All that I am saying that I've spent about 3+ hours on the phone with the National Time Warner Cable Card Support on two different occasions and everything looks fine on their end. The first time I called them directly and the 2nd time I did a three-way with TiVo Tech Support.

Please read my pm.

All that I am saying that I've spent about 3+ hours on the phone with the National Time Warner Cable Card Support on two different occasions and everything looks fine on their end. The first time I called them directly and the 2nd time I did a three-way with TiVo Tech Support.

It seems to me that there is a compatibility issue with all these legacy networks that they are using together as one Time Warner Network in my area.

I just would hate to see someone in the same situation as me bang their head against the wall for 5-10 hours, between calls to tech support and truck rolls as I had to in early August only to come up with no fix.

I'd be interested to know if 2 single stream cable cards work like they seem to in my area for the TiVo Series 3 as Ben Music said. I was told that S-cards don't work in my area on the TiVoHD and that was before my problem occurred. Although, if I recall correctly, in one of my dozen truck rolls early this summer, I think we did try a S-Card because they didn't bring a m-card. It didn't work as I recall. But, I think that was with the new Scientific Atlanta Card and not the old Motorola Cards that Time Warner is phasing out. We could never get the SA s-card to work on my Sony PVR so a cable guy was able to finagle a Motorola SD Card and it worked. Maybe 2 Motorola S-Cards is the way to go to fix my problem.

KennedyJ, if you could PM me the head tech's number I would appreciate it. I lost his number. If you talk to him tell him to try two Motorola S-Cards. Ben Music, what kind of cable cards do you have in your S3?

I have two (Comcast) Motorola S-Cards. Everything still working OK. You might be on to something here.

Ben Music

I have two (Comcast) Motorola S-Cards. Everything still working OK. You might be on to something here.

Ben Music

Yes, if you were in the old comcast area it would make sense that they would still need the Motorola cards.

First off, thanks everyone for helping me with this. All the Time Warner cable guys that I've talked to have been explicitly told from local management under no circumstances are they to give out anymore Motorola cable cards, and to only give out the new Scientific Atlanta Cable Cards. What's funny is the fact that the Tech from the National Tech Support told me I should be using the Motorola cards. I told him what my local cable guys told me about only being allowed to use the SA Cable Cards.

I do think I am on to something. I sent a text message to the local head tech. to try the Motorola cards. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. If this does work then I'll have to fight Time Warner for a single monthly charge for two cable cards. If they don't work with me on this after all this hassle I'll be seriously PO'd.

First off, thanks everyone for helping me with this. All the Time Warner cable guys that I've talked to have been explicitly told from local management under no circumstances are they to give out anymore Motorola cable cards, and to only give out the new Scientific Atlanta Cable Cards. What's funny is the fact that the Tech from the National Tech Support told me I should be using the Motorola cards. I told him what my local cable guys told me about only being allowed to use the SA Cable Cards.

I do think I am on to something. I sent a text message to the local head tech. to try the Motorola cards. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. If this does work then I'll have to fight Time Warner for a single monthly charge for two cable cards. If they don't work with me on this after all this hassle I'll be seriously PO'd.

I agree that it's looking promissing that this is a Motorola vs. SA issue in our area. I stumbled across a thread on TCF from someone in Mentor having the same problem, and they confirmed our suspicions. Unfortunately there is a reference in the 5th post of the thread that TW is terminating the Motorola feed on September 15th! Ben Music, you may want to circle that day on your calendar in case you run into any problems.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=402383

I agree that it's looking promissing that this is a Motorola vs. SA issue in our area. I stumbled across a thread on TCF from someone in Mentor having the same problem, and they confirmed our suspicions. Unfortunately there is a reference in the 5th post of the thread that TW is terminating the Motorola feed on September 15th! Ben Music, you may want to circle that day on your calendar in case you run into any problems.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=402383

Post from TiVo Thread:

Finally, the missing Digital channels resolved!!
It may only be temporarily, but we now know why.
TWC had a tech here yesterday to install new cards, to fix it. That didn't change a thing, my persistance got a 3 way call with the tech, the person at the office that setup the local cards, and Tivo. Tivo kept saying the cards weren't paired, they tried Single's, and Multi's. to make a LONG!!! story short, the SA Cable Cards won't work with 9.4 The Motorola cards work fine.
Unfortunatley TWC will stop the Moto feed Sept 15th, so I hope they find a fix to the SA cards soon!! This took from 3:30 to after 10 PM!! No thanks to Tivo, and they're aware of TWC and SA CC's losing channels. nice finger pointing, and lack of cooperation. my fear is it's been atleast 3 weeks for me, how much longer before a fix is found? And is it Tivo's fault for the update that is incompatible? or TWC for their Cards not working with 9.4? I would have to say Tivo, they have the ability to test with the technology out there.
so if you live in an area that was Adelphia, and having the same issues, see if you can get Moto CC's, I will keep pushing with TWC for SA CC's that are compatible. (since I can't roll back to 9.3)

I just got off the phone with Casey the lead Tech in my area. Basically he confirmed everything we know about the incompatibility with the SA cable cards. However, he did say they are making headway and they hoped to have a fix within a few days. Just yesterday they made a eye-popping discovery about the feed that we get from Akron that should allow them to fix this problem very soon.

He did confirm that motorola feed will be shut off shortly. Anyone with Motorola cable cards is screwed including me. It's nice that Time Warner gives us advanced notice of what they are doing, but would you expect anything less from this company?

I just got off the phone with Casey the lead Tech in my area. Basically he confirmed everything we know about the incompatibility with the SA cable cards. However, he did say they are making headway and they hoped to have a fix within a few days. Just yesterday they made a eye-popping discovery about the feed that we get from Akron that should allow them to fix this problem very soon.

He did confirm that motorola feed will be shut off shortly. Anyone with Motorola cable cards is screwed including me. It's nice that Time Warner gives us advanced notice of what they are doing, but would you expect anything less from this company?

Great news! I'm very pleased to hear that progress is being made. Thanks for the update. Hopefully we'll all be enjoying our TiVos early next week.

I went ahead an emailed the technician at TiVo that I know to let him know what's coming with the Motorola Feed shutdown. Hopefully he'll be smart and post a bulletin before a bunch of people start calling next week and the TiVo techs won't have to keep re-inventing the wheel to try and solve the problem that they can't solve.

I went ahead an emailed the technician at TiVo that I know to let him know what's coming with the Motorola Feed shutdown. Hopefully he'll be smart and post a bulletin before a bunch of people start calling next week and the TiVo techs won't have to keep re-inventing the wheel to try and solve the problem that they can't solve.

Yeah and hopefully the hurricane won't hit Texas.:rolleyes:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yeah and hopefully the hurricane won't hit Texas.:rolleyes:

LOL. The TiVo tech. told me that TiVo actually took the liberty to send a TiVo to Time Warner to test, so at least TiVo is trying to help out with the problem.

LOL. The TiVo tech. told me that TiVo actually took the liberty to send a TiVo to Time Warner to test, so at least TiVo is trying to help out with the problem.

If you read the pm I sent you that's what I advised that person to do.

I know nickdawg, I tired to stop it but I can't control what someone else does.

Thanks Ben and Jason for posting on here and helping me work through this. We are not quite there yet but I think we are getting close. This is the Cleveland Area HDTV thread which is an open forum for people to work together with issues related to Cleveland Area HDTV. This is contrary of course to what the trolls on this thread would try to make you believe. :rolleyes:

Thanks Ben and Jason for posting on here and helping me work through this. We are not quite there yet but I think we are getting close. This is the Cleveland Area HDTV thread which is an open forum for people to work together with issues related to Cleveland Area HDTV. This is contrary of course to what the trolls on this thread would try to make you believe. :rolleyes:

Wait a second. I hope that wasn't directed at me. I simply said that the majority of people on this thread do not own TiVos. Hence nickdawgs comments.

And it would be more appropriate for this type of conversation to go by pm so others didn't get disturbed by it. I tried to be nice and explain that to you even sent you a pm which you haven't even acknowledged about certain issues with the cable cards. But apparently you feel that if it's something that concerns you to heck with the vast majority of the people on this thread, I'll post what I want.

Don't mess with the bull son, you'll get the horns.

Horns? Don't you mean BEAK? :D

If you read the pm I sent you that's what I advised that person to do.

I know nickdawg, I tired to stop it but I can't control what someone else does.

I see hook is subliminally sharing in my sentiments. :p

This is the Cleveland Ohio HDTV forum, not the Tivo forum. There's a dedicated Tivo forum here plus countless other ones out there.

I had some big news, but now I don't want to share for fear of getting buried in pages of tivo crap...

II had some big news, but now I don't want to share for fear of getting buried in pages of tivo crap...

Big News? Please share. Did they dump Navigator? New HD channels coming? You're moving?:p;)

I did post in the TiVo forum when this problem originally happened over a month ago. There were about 3 replies and none of them had anything to do with my problem, nor were they from my area. This is an isolated problem in the CLEVELAND area, and had I not posted here then I would not have been on my way to finding a fix.

I'll post where I deem appropriate and you can't stop me. Now if the moderators think I'm out of line here, I'm sure they will let us know.

I did post in the TiVo forum when this problem originally happened over a month ago. There were about 3 replies and none of them had anything to do with my problem, nor were they from my area. This is an isolated problem in the CLEVELAND area, and had I not posted here then I would not have been on my way to finding a fix.

I'll post where I deem appropriate and you can't stop me. Now if the moderators think I'm out of line here, I'm sure they will let us know.

Sorry to waste your time with my "TiVo crap" Nickdog. :rolleyes: But I completely agree with edjrwinnt. This is a CLEVELAND OHIO and HD TIVO problem. Completly appropriate to discuss here. And more than likely will result in a solution due to the open discussion that has occurred.

Directv works great over here in N E Ohio for all types of feed including 1080P :D

Directv works great over here in N E Ohio for all types of feed including 1080P :D

Then again, directv has the major advantage of a single controlled 'headend' and a limited set of set-tops and firmware versions not to mention VERY limited support for outside devices (no Tivo outside of DTivo units, no actual DBS tuning hardware aside from DTV's boxes and their new PC tuner which is DTV made and operated)

Cable companies like Time Warner have it the hardest with stuff like this due to the scattered regions and wildly varied mix of equipment/hardware/firmware/headend equipment/DOCSIS setup/etc..

C'mon, nickdawg quit holding back. What's the big news?

Sorry to waste your time with my "TiVo crap" Nickdog. :rolleyes: But I completely agree with edjrwinnt. This is a CLEVELAND OHIO and HD TIVO problem. Completly appropriate to discuss here. And more than likely will result in a solution due to the open discussion that has occurred.

At first I thought it wasn't approriate and had no plans on adding to the discussion. However the fact that it seems to be a cable card issue with you successfully using Motorola and edjrwinnt having SA cards is an issue.

Looking at the broader aspect of this fellow forum members should realize that this is the same issue that basically is holding up software updates on their DVR's in these and old Adelphia areas.

It's like trying to attach a distributor cap made for a Chevy on to an old Ford.

edjrwinnt you are free to post whatever you want. As far as a moderator, I doubt one ever even comes in here and the only way it would be an issue is if someone reported your post. Which I doubt anyone would do.

Still you guys got to realize there are probably 5 people who post here who have TiVos. On the other hand who knows how many people lurk and are reading about this issue?

Bottom line is edjrwinnt will probably get his issue solved soon, and KennedyJ will have an issue with his cards at that time. What a mess!

Next time nickdawg posts his zzzzzzz, I'l post some right back at him when he starts complaining about Navigator.:D

I flip flop more then a politician.:o

On a happy note for the 5 TiVo people here we got guide data today for Big10Ohio HD. Just in time to watch Ohio stat get it's behind kicked by USC. GO TROJANS!

Have a nice weekend guys.

At first I thought it wasn't approriate and had no plans on adding to the discussion. However the fact that it seems to be a cable card issue with you successfully using Motorola and edjrwinnt having SA cards is an issue.

Looking at the broader aspect of this fellow forum members should realize that this is the same issue that basically is holding up software updates on their DVR's in these and old Adelphia areas.

It's like trying to attach a distributor cap made for a Chevy on to an old Ford.

edjrwinnt you are free to post whatever you want. As far as a moderator, I doubt one ever even comes in here and the only way it would be an issue is if someone reported your post. Which I doubt anyone would do.

Still you guys got to realize there are probably 5 people who post here who have TiVos. On the other hand who knows how many people lurk and are reading about this issue?

Bottom line is edjrwinnt will probably get his issue solved soon, and KennedyJ will have an issue with his cards at that time. What a mess!

Next time nickdawg posts his zzzzzzz, I'l post some right back at him when he starts complaining about Navigator.:D

I flip flop more then a politician.:o

On a happy note for the 5 TiVo people here we got guide data today for Big10Ohio HD. Just in time to watch Ohio stat get it's behind kicked by USC. GO TROJANS!

Have a nice weekend guys.

Thanks for changing your tune Hookbill. In the end we all want the same thing here - to be able to enjoy quality HDTV. :)

Thank you too Hookbill for understanding. It's tough enough having my TiVo down for 6 weeks, and then come on here and get kicked in the nuts. :) I'm sorry I used the word "trolls" in the context that I used it in but I hope you understand my frustration.

I watch this thread everyday nickdawg and I get bored too. I've learned to be a good speed reader and sort through the stuff that just interests me, and most of it doesn't interest me but that's okay. :)

I think the thread should be renamed to "As Time Warner Turns".

..............

I think the thread should be renamed to "as time warner turns".


:eek: ;) :D

Directv works great over here in N E Ohio for all types of feed including 1080P :D

Ditto for Dish Network! We got our 1st 1080p VOD selection this month! (now if only I had a screen to enjoy that full resolution).

Ditto for Dish Network! We got our 1st 1080p VOD selection this month! (now if only I had a screen to enjoy that full resolution).

Well you are talking to the right guy (Cleveland Plasma) to get that HD screen. :)

He sells & installs HD panels, specializes in Plasma & LCD, delivers what he promises, knows his stuff, local company, carries only good quality brands & products, great guy!

He sold and installed my NEC Plasma over 2.5 years ago and his advice on make, model, type, and needs were DEAD ON! I could not be more satisfied with all aspects of his business and services. 100% satisfied customer here (among many others). ;)

It's funny, I can't remember anymore who advised me on my LCD selection but they were dead on by suggesting 720p over 1080p and a larger screen then I was looking at. Last night I was watching the 2 hour Bones I recorded and had that "wow" feeling all the way through.

Of course Bones is broadcast in 720p. Maybe it does make a difference. I never noticed it with my 1080i CRT Sony Wega.

Viewing a live 720P program OTA verses a 1080P HD-DVD is extremely close in quality on a 1080P set. If your vision is not quite up to snuff you probably won't tell the difference. There are some sequences on Bones that are very "film type grainy".
JJK

Viewing a live 720P program OTA verses a 1080P HD-DVD is extremely close in quality on a 1080P set. If your vision is not quite up to snuff you probably won't tell the difference. There are some sequences on Bones that are very "film type grainy".
JJK

I will admit that there are people out there who can probably notice differences in HD quality. However please keep in mind that when I watch a recording it is via a THX Certified DVR. It was as clean as it could be. At least to me.

On a happy note for the 5 TiVo people here we got guide data today for Big10Ohio HD. Just in time to watch Ohio stat get it's behind kicked by USC. GO TROJANS!

Have a nice weekend guys.

BLASPHEMY!!!!

YOU ARE BANNED!!!!

This game is painful! :mad::(:mad::mad::mad:

People all over Columbus are looking for bridges right about now.

People all over Columbus are looking for bridges right about now.

If they find one, let me know! :p

A sucky day at the dawg house. The nickdawg house that is. Akron loses, Ohio State loses. :(

Oh well, tomorrow we get to watch the Browns lose too...:rolleyes:

BLASPHEMY!!!!

YOU ARE BANNED!!!!

This game is painful! :mad::(:mad::mad::mad:

Hey, if you couldn't see this coming you should have a white cane and a guide dog.

Kudoos to Ohio State, they did score 3 points.:D:D:D

Top that off with the fact that the Dodgers are now 41/2 games over Arizona in the N.L. West and have been playing great since the acquisitions of Casey Blake and Manny Rameriz, plus their closer Takashi Saito is returning I thought yesterday was just a great day!:)

Last I saw the Angels were like 18 games in front in their division. It's only a matter of time until LeBron goes to the Lakers now that he's played with Kobe Bryant in the Olympics.

Yes, things are going well. Hopefully we will see the Dodgers in playoffs and the World Series in HD. A Freeway World Series in HD would be nice, you'd get a chance to see all the fine looking young women in Southern California in HD. And you might as well write in USC for the BCS, which you can watch in HD as well on FOX.

Come on nickdawg, you might as well cheer along with me. You have nothing else to cheer for. Your baseball team is out of it. You have as much chance of going to the playoffs in the NFL as Los Angeles. Oh, that's right L.A. doesn't have a pro team. Well, neither does Cleveland.:D The way Pittsburgh played last week I can only imagine how bad they will beat up the Browns. And to stay on topic that game is on HD as well.

I feel sorry for the Sunday Night Football announcers. What will they say at the half when the Browns are loosing 28-0.
JJK

I feel sorry for the Sunday Night Football announcers. What will they say at the half when the Browns are loosing 28-0.
JJK

They'll talk about the OSU game. :eek:

They'll talk about the OSU game. :eek:

You mean they will talk about the USC game.:)

you mean they will talk about the usc game.:)

ha! :D

I know we all should be happy that Time Warner gave us Big Ten Network in HD..

But Seriously does anyone have any inside information when they might be getting serious about adding more HD channels to there line up.?

I know we all should be happy that Time Warner gave us Big Ten Network in HD..

But Seriously does anyone have any inside information when they might be getting serious about adding more HD channels to there line up.?

Not anymore then you would get from customer service. I talked to my contact at headend about USA and she said they are in "negotiations" which is the same thing a CSR would tell you.

There use to be a person named hanson or something like that who had an inside to Adelphia, but I haven't heard from him in a long time and his last prediction was wrong.

I think Cathode Kid has some contact as well but he hasn't said anything.

TW is pretty tight lipped about these things and we usually don't hear about it until a couple of days before.

TW didn't have any problems adding 3 HD channels for the Olympics..so the idea of problems of bandwith as being the reason not to add anymore are unfounded in my eyes.

So what is the holdup ??? I would love to know

I see WOIO is asleep at the switch today. The NFL Today pregame show is not HD. Why does this kind of thing still happen? You would think this would be automated by now.

Edit: Just called them they said they are having a problem with the CBS feed.

TW didn't have any problems adding 3 HD channels for the Olympics..so the idea of problems of bandwith as being the reason not to add anymore are unfounded in my eyes.

So what is the holdup ??? I would love to know

I'd guess bandwidth limitations are indeed a concern. They, obviously, are not at full capacity but must plan carefully for future added stations plus leave some head room.

Adding stations willy-nilly creates just the flak you are seeing about the temporarily added Olympic channels. They were offered as a temporary "gift" or free-bee to their digital tier customers, and now TWC is getting an earful because they have removed those temporary feeds.

Any added station will not please everyone and the typical "if they can add Big Ten Network in HD then why can't they add Soap TV in HD" will inevitably happen. I'd guess if they add a station it's supposed to be well thought out, well planned, work out all the legal BS (contracts), and shoot for longevity of that added channel. Throw in doing customer research to find out which channels are most desired and/or most watched would add to this complexity.

I'm with you, the more HD the better! I'm just throwing out some reasons TWC and other cable/sat systems are probably careful and cautious about adding channels, HD or not. ;)

TW didn't have any problems adding 3 HD channels for the Olympics..so the idea of problems of bandwith as being the reason not to add anymore are unfounded in my eyes.

So what is the holdup ??? I would love to know

Not to step on Toby 10's toes but the problem is the fact that we are dealing with a cable company. A cable company that is very tight with the purse strings.

In other words they don't want to pay what some channels want which is why they are always in "negotiations."

Consider the previous discussion we were having about cable cards. TW has two people managing the cable card hot line for the entire nation. 2 people, that's it.

So the hold up is they are cheap. Just like all the other BIG cable companies.

Take a look at this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14661056&postcount=4702). Sound familiar?

Anyone in the TW West Valley area having a problem with their cable cards on a Series 3?

I'm suddenly not getting lots of channels on both cable cards. Some are basic network channels = 3,8,12. I get a message "Channel not available. You may need cablecard decoders..." and a grey screen.

Re-ran guided setup = no change. Any ideas?? I don't know whether to call TiVo or TW.

Thanks, CB

Now that's in the TiVo link but when I clicked on it I thought this is the same thing we were talking about and started to answer, hey buddy take a look a page back. Then I realized I wasn't in the local thread. He's on the West side of the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles.

Not to step on Toby 10's toes but the problem is the fact that we are dealing with a cable company. A cable company that is very tight with the purse strings.

In other words they don't want to pay what some channels want which is why they are always in "negotiations."

Consider the previous discussion we were having about cable cards. TW has two people managing the cable card hot line for the entire nation. 2 people, that's it.

So the hold up is they are cheap. Just like all the other BIG cable companies.

Yep. Calling a spade a spade...

A family member of mine used to work for TW. Not lower end, not upper managment either, somewhere in the middle. He was there for 13 years, until the last 2 years of his tenre he received no pay raise what-so-ever, not even a cost of living raise. So, he left and went to AT&T/Ameritech/SBC or whatever the heck it's called now. Less hours, less work, more pay (about 12% more than at TW), and a company truck to use at will.

Take a look at this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14661056&postcount=4702). Sound familiar?

Anyone in the TW West Valley area having a problem with their cable cards on a Series 3?

I'm suddenly not getting lots of channels on both cable cards. Some are basic network channels = 3,8,12. I get a message "Channel not available. You may need cablecard decoders..." and a grey screen.

Re-ran guided setup = no change. Any ideas?? I don't know whether to call TiVo or TW.

Thanks, CB

Now that's in the TiVo link but when I clicked on it I thought this is the same thing we were talking about and started to answer, hey buddy take a look a page back. Then I realized I wasn't in the local thread. He's on the West side of the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles.

Interesting. How many people are going to make posts like this on here later this week when the Motorola Cable Card Feed is shutdown?

Interesting. How many people are going to make posts like this on here later this week when the Motorola Cable Card Feed is shutdown?

He responded said that he is TW native so he is not in the take over area. But that doesn't mean anything.

Even if he was TW native at one time it was owned by another company before TW bought it. He said he has an SA 8300 and it was off on Friday, then back on by Firday night. He thinks it's a software update. Maybe Navigator?

Now to the best of my knowledge an update to Navigator shouldn't affect a cable card but who knows, these things are so darn touchy.

Hey, if you couldn't see this coming you should have a white cane and a guide dog.

Come on nickdawg, you might as well cheer along with me. You have nothing else to cheer for. Your baseball team is out of it. You have as much chance of going to the playoffs in the NFL as Los Angeles. Oh, that's right L.A. doesn't have a pro team. Well, neither does Cleveland.:D The way Pittsburgh played last week I can only imagine how bad they will beat up the Browns. And to stay on topic that game is on HD as well.

I had a feeling it was coming, I just didn't want to admit it. I'll never cheer for the other side!!! There should be a point system and every time someone cheers for the wrong side they lose some points. :p Like if you cheer FOR USC, Pittsburgh, Kent, Tivo, Directv or worst of all MICHIGAN!!! :mad:

Only cheering for Ohio State, Zips, Browns, TWC and SARA is allowed here. :D;)

............
So the hold up is they are cheap. Just like all the other BIG cable companies.

That as well. ;)

Jim Brown walking with a cane? What's the world coming to?
JJK

I recall reading a few pages back (although I cannot find the post now) about the possibility of WEWS showing CSI Miami weekend reruns in HD. Well I don't know about Miami (it's running later now than it used to) but CSI NY Weekend was in HD this weekend.

Hey I have a question for all of you.

I have a Vizio VX37L and Dish network HD. I am thinking about switching to the turbo HD package because i barely watch 75% of the channels i have and want to lower my bill, but they want to charge me 5 bucks for each local hd channel if i do this.

my question is how good would the OTA HD siqnal be in lakewood and what would i need to get to use it???

thanks
Mike

I recall reading a few pages back (although I cannot find the post now) about the possibility of WEWS showing CSI Miami weekend reruns in HD. Well I don't know about Miami (it's running later now than it used to) but CSI NY Weekend was in HD this weekend.

Yes. Both CSI: NY and CSI: Miami weekend episodes now air in HD on WEWS. Both WEWS and WKYC have been excellent with HD this season. WKYC is also airing Dr. Phil and Entertainment Tonight in HD. They even showed the NBC primetime preview show in HD this week as well. Makes me wish WEWS or WKYC would pick up the reruns of Two and a Half Men and Everybody Loves Raymond. And I wish WEWS as an ABC station would have also picked up the syndicated episodes of Lost and Desperate Housewives in HD as well.

Also, that bug news I was talking about, hookbill. I got a response from WKYC about Ellen in HD. It has to do with the distributor. Dr. Phil and Entertainment Tonight gave WKYC the equipment they need to receive the HD broadcast. They're waiting for the equipment from WB for the Ellen show.

Very friendly and prompt. I was impressed by WKYC. I've emailed another Cleveland TV station in the past about HD issues and had no response at alll. What a shock, considering who it was.

Totally unrelated. I see Roadrunners webmail interface changed a lot today. Much fancier but its also ad driven.
Dave

That's something that I still don't fully understand. I know it's all about the money, but you'd think that when you pay $40-$50 a month for a service that is basically worth $10, that they would relent on all the in-your-face ads :rolleyes:.

OT-A post on "Cleveland Comedy Company" a Cleveland-centered copy of "Saturday Night Live", aired sometime in 1980 on WEWS-TV 5

http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspot.com/

Included are 2 video clips..Thought some of the regulars might like the part about "EyewitnessActionCenter News"..In the second video..

Hey I have a question for all of you.

I have a Vizio VX37L and Dish network HD. I am thinking about switching to the turbo HD package because i barely watch 75% of the channels i have and want to lower my bill, but they want to charge me 5 bucks for each local hd channel if i do this.

my question is how good would the OTA HD siqnal be in lakewood and what would i need to get to use it???

thanks
Mike

I'm not an OTA person but I know enough to tell you that nobody can answer your question with accuracy, because nobody knows what surrounds you, interferes with you, etc.

But I would think the basic answer to your question is this: Does dropping the turbo package cost more then 25 bucks?

You can get some answers to your questions at http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

And you have to ask yourself, do you want to go through all this trouble if you are keeping your satellite anyway?

Hey I have a question for all of you.

I have a Vizio VX37L and Dish network HD. I am thinking about switching to the turbo HD package because i barely watch 75% of the channels i have and want to lower my bill, but they want to charge me 5 bucks for each local hd channel if i do this.

my question is how good would the OTA HD siqnal be in lakewood and what would i need to get to use it???

thanks
Mike

You need an antenna and an ATSC tuner (probably in your tv) and the std RG6/RG59 cable between them.

Your HD PQ via OTA is every bit as good as any cable or sat local HD (some would argue a better PQ due to less compression).

Whether you would need a directional, omni-directional, or even a simple set of rabbit ears I dunno. As hookbill has suggested start at antennaweb.org to see what antenna you may require.

I just yesterday (sunday) installed a directional antenna in Lakewood on top of a commercial building (three floors) for a friend. But he is only utilizing the analog signals so I cannot comment on DTV reception at his location.

.......
And you have to ask yourself, do you want to go through all this trouble if you are keeping your satellite anyway?

At $5 per channel I'd say it's well worth the trouble. ;)

Though that does seem rather pricey. :confused:

Makes me wish WEWS or WKYC would pick up the reruns of Two and a Half Men and Everybody Loves Raymond.

I wrote WBNX about ELR - not because I really watch it, but because I'm curious about the status of HD reruns/syndication locally. Their response?


Live programming thru the network is fed in HD.
Any programs in syndication require special equipment which we do not have
at this time. We will have the equipment in the near future.


A quick check of the Tribune/Zap2It listings shows "Two and a Half Men" syndication on WUAB/43. So much for that being in HD any time soon.

Hey I have a question for all of you.

I have a Vizio VX37L and Dish network HD. I am thinking about switching to the turbo HD package because i barely watch 75% of the channels i have and want to lower my bill, but they want to charge me 5 bucks for each local hd channel if i do this.

my question is how good would the OTA HD siqnal be in lakewood and what would i need to get to use it???

thanks
Mike
I'm a Dish Network customer since 1997. The Cleveland locals are $5 for the whole package, not per channel. To drop a package there is a $5 charge - again per package, not per channel. However if you used the OTA tuner in your satellite receiver you would lose the guide data if you don't subscribe to the locals package. If you used the tuner in your Visio you would only get the limited data that the stations send out (sometimes it's only the current program and the one following). With the EPG from Dish you get 9 days of data!

Is your satellite receiver a DVR? If so get DVR advantage - it will save you some fees that you are now paying.

Check out this site for more DBS related issues: http://www.dbstalk.com/index.php

BTW: The analog OTA reception in Lakewood for the analog stations was bad due to terrain and Hopkins Airport traffic. While in analog a few ghosts would just be an annoyance, in digital they could be the kiss of death.

I'm a Dish Network customer since 1997. The Cleveland locals are $5 for the whole package, not per channel.......

Now that seems more realistic. $5 per month to receive all locals in HD is a fair price. Now I'd certainly agree with you and hookbill, it isn't worth the trouble or lack of features to not pay the $5 per month. ;)

$5 x 7 channels per month, no friggin way! :eek:

..............BTW: The analog OTA reception in Lakewood for the analog stations was bad due to terrain and Hopkins Airport traffic. While in analog a few ghosts would just be an annoyance, in digital they could be the kiss of death.

He just ordered his DTV Coupon. When we hook it up I'll report back on Digital OTA reception.

PBS 45/49 was doing fundraising this weekend and Trina Cutter the CEO was mentioning how excited she was about the digital transition next February. She said one of the "neat" things they will be able to do is run 4 subchannels (like Create and Kids). So look for their PQ to go in the toilet next year. Too bad.

Oh, and they are "rebranding" themselves to "Western Reserve Public Media (http://www.pbs4549.org/news/newname08.htm)". Really irritates me that they beg for money and then spend it on needless branding strategies.

I wrote WBNX about ELR - not because I really watch it, but because I'm curious about the status of HD reruns/syndication locally. Their response?



A quick check of the Tribune/Zap2It listings shows "Two and a Half Men" syndication on WUAB/43. So much for that being in HD any time soon.

I think we'll see HD syndication on WBNX long before we see it on WOIO or WUAB. Especially since WBNX now carries Lost, DH and ELR. Plus who knows what is yet to come in syndication. WBNX has been more advanced since they went live. They first had the ability to run the weather crawl over HD network programming. WOIO and WUAB are flakey on that. WBNX owns WUAB and even WOIO in terms of quality. I might send them a message as well, since I had such great luck with WKYC. no pint in even bothering with WUAB, as they don't respond and don't care.

Maybe WUAB will lose 2.5 Men and WBNX will pick it up in HD one day. Seems most of the synication on WUAB ends up on WBNX. :p

PBS 45/49 was doing fundraising this weekend and Trina Cutter the CEO was mentioning how excited she was about the digital transition next February. She said one of the "neat" things they will be able to do is run 4 subchannels (like Create and Kids). So look for their PQ to go in the toilet next year. Too bad.

Oh, and they are "rebranding" themselves to "Western Reserve Public Media (http://www.pbs4549.org/news/newname08.htm)". Really irritates me that they beg for money and then spend it on needless branding strategies.

Sounds like WNEO will be just as bad as WVIZ. I won't even acknowledge that WVIZ is on my cable because of their poor quality. Seems like their channel goes out often, I see a blank screen on 411 as well as on their multicast channels in 363 and 364.

On a good note, I noticed that WNEO is outputting at 720p on the main feed. That should help make the picture not as bad(relatively speaking) with the extra multicast channels.

PBS 45/49 was doing fundraising this weekend and Trina Cutter the CEO was mentioning how excited she was about the digital transition next February. She said one of the "neat" things they will be able to do is run 4 subchannels (like Create and Kids). So look for their PQ to go in the toilet next year. Too bad.

Don't blame Trina...running multiple subchannels is basically what PBS stations do. Maybe they'll be smart about it, like some PBS stations, and turn off all the extra subchannels during prime time...giving the bandwidth to HD. And keep in mind...I would think that the SD simulcast on 45/49 goes away after 2/17.

I think we'll see HD syndication on WBNX long before we see it on WOIO or WUAB. Especially since WBNX now carries Lost, DH and ELR. Plus who knows what is yet to come in syndication.

Well, the response I got from WBNX was at least a little encouraging - "we will have", not "we're looking into it" or something similar. It sounds like they have a plan. Or maybe I'm reading into it, but I agree, I would be shocked if WOIO/WUAB started running their syndie shows in HD before WBNX does.

Well, the response I got from WBNX was at least a little encouraging - "we will have", not "we're looking into it" or something similar. It sounds like they have a plan. Or maybe I'm reading into it, but I agree, I would be shocked if WOIO/WUAB started running their syndie shows in HD before WBNX does.


Question: Who owns WUAB?

Answer: Raycom Media.

Now let's play Jeopardy:

The cheapest bunch of broadcast owners, some say that they are comparable to cable companies like Time Warner and Comcast.

Your question please?

Now that seems more realistic. $5 per month to receive all locals in HD is a fair price. Now I'd certainly agree with you and hookbill, it isn't worth the trouble or lack of features to not pay the $5 per month. ;)

$5 x 7 channels per month, no friggin way! :eek:


I didn't even think about pointing out that he was wrong about that. I'm also not a satellite person, but I use to be. I still have my space suit in the closet and if I continue to lose weight I may even fit into it someday.

When I do my wife will probably launch me ASAP, so I don't want to lose too much weight!

Now after that very funny comment:rolleyes: a small rant.

I notice this guys post and he doesn't get a response. So I figure I will get the ball rolling and start the discussion. We get it figured out, give him some good info and does he even come back and say thanks?

Maybe he never read the comments and is out spending all that money.:p

Anybody know if WVPX (23) (OTA) is going to go digital?
JJK

I didn't even think about pointing out that he was wrong about that. I'm also not a satellite person, but I use to be. I still have my space suit in the closet and if I continue to lose weight I may even fit into it someday.

When I do my wife will probably launch me ASAP, so I don't want to lose too much weight!


I'll bet that space suit is a turn on for your wife! :cool:

The cheapest bunch of broadcast owners, some say that they are comparable to cable companies like Time Warner and Comcast.

Your question please?

Who are Raycom Media, NexStar and Sinclair?

:D

Yeah, I was agreeing up there...I said I WOULD be shocked if WOIO/WUAB did their syndie shows in HD before WBNX. I'm betting on the former frog (which is still up on the side of the WBNX studios on State Road, BTW, long after A] the WB abandoned the frog mascot and B] the WB went away entirely for the CW).

Anybody know if WVPX (23) (OTA) is going to go digital?
JJK

February 17, 2009. Not a moment sooner.

WVPX had a digital allotment (RF 59), but never worked out the Canadian coordination issues...and even if they had done that, they'd have to abandon it in February anyway, since 59 is out of the digital core (2-51).

So, WVPX will flash cut to digital on 23 at the transition.

Question: Who owns WUAB?

Answer: Raycom Media.

Now let's play Jeopardy:

The cheapest bunch of broadcast owners, some say that they are comparable to cable companies like Time Warner and Comcast.

Your question please?

They don't call it 'Raycheap' for nothing!!! :D:D:D:D

Who are Raycom Media, NexStar and Sinclair?

:D

Yeah, I was agreeing up there...I said I WOULD be shocked if WOIO/WUAB did their syndie shows in HD before WBNX. I'm betting on the former frog (which is still up on the side of the WBNX studios on State Road, BTW, long after A] the WB abandoned the frog mascot and B] the WB went away entirely for the CW).


I've seen that frog too. Looks like it cost alot of money so I guess they didn't want to trash it. Don't blame them, it's a nice frog. Plus I think they actually put it up right before the final season of the WB and that was also the year the WB stopped using the frog mascot.

Anybody know what's holding up the broad rollout of AT&T's U-Verse around here? Here in Shaker we've had the lovely VRAD lawn boxes planted for something like a couple years now, and still not a peep out of ATT as to when they will start offering service. IIRC, the state passed that law that lets ATT override the local municipalities' franchise restrictions, so I would have thought U-Verse would be everywhere by now.

On another note, I'm not real happy with WOW's high speed internet service lately - been getting a lot of severe slowdowns and dropouts in the evening hours. Any other WOW people seeing this?

Anybody know what's holding up the broad rollout of AT&T's U-Verse around here? Here in Shaker we've had the lovely VRAD lawn boxes planted for something like a couple years now, and still not a peep out of ATT as to when they will start offering service. IIRC, the state passed that law that lets ATT override the local municipalities' franchise restrictions, so I would have thought U-Verse would be everywhere by now.

On another note, I'm not real happy with WOW's high speed internet service lately - been getting a lot of severe slowdowns and dropouts in the evening hours. Any other WOW people seeing this?

I haven't seen any of their boxes in my neck of the woods but you are correct, they did buy the votes they needed to pass the law that overrides locality franchise restrictions. Another fine example of how crooked the government is in Ohio.

Who does the landline phone service in your area? Is it AT&T or Windstream? Because it seems to me that seems to be the hold up at least in my area.

Now when this law was passed, why didn't Verizon jump in on this? That's another mystery.

I think it has to do with phone company territories. In other words, if you're in Windstream area no U-Verse for you. And we will never see FIOS.

You can see if you're eligable for U-Verse by clicking here (https://uverse1.att.com/un/launchAMSSNotAuthenticated.do?target_action=serviceabilityCh eck). I'll bet you're in AT&T area and that's why you see the boxes. Also you can check a box to be notified if you're not available right now.

Who does the landline phone service in your area? Is it AT&T or Windstream? Because it seems to me that seems to be the hold up at least in my area.

Now when this law was passed, why didn't Verizon jump in on this? That's another mystery.

I think it has to do with phone company territories. In other words, if you're in Windstream area no U-Verse for you. And we will never see FIOS.



It's all AT&T here in Shaker. Verizon wouldn't/couldn't have jumped on it because they have no infrastructure here, they're not the incumbent phone company that owns the wires and the central offices.

It's all AT&T here in Shaker. Verizon wouldn't/couldn't have jumped on it because they have no infrastructure here, they're not the incumbent phone company that owns the wires and the central offices.

Exactly! So when you clicked the link what happened when you clicked the link? It seems to me you should be able to get it.

Now that we have established that you are in AT&T country let's talk about broadband. My experience with it was through Cincinnati Bell and it was terrible. Constant outages. I've been very happy with Adelphia/RoadRunner.

I haven't seen any of their boxes in my neck of the woods...
Don't hold your breath waiting for them to appear in Windstream land. The only other telco setting up a fibre to the neighborhood system is Verizion's FIOS (which some believe is superior to U-Verse).

I believe at&t suffered a setback when their back-up batteries started exploding and the manufacturer of those batteries went bankrupt. I believe someone posted a picture of an exploded U-Verse box about 6 or 8 months back on this very forum.

The at&t techs have been potsing around with those boxes in my neighborhood for quite awhile now with no end in sight. All I want it for is high-speed broadband.

On another note, I'm not real happy with WOW's high speed internet service lately - been getting a lot of severe slowdowns and dropouts in the evening hours. Any other WOW people seeing this?
WOW high-speed has been consistently good for me. Almost always get download speeds of 4Mbps or more.

About two months ago, I had a couple of days where it was slow in the afternoon. I called CS and they sent someone out to give me a new modem, even though the situation seemed to resolve itself after they sent a hit to reset the modem.

Yesterday, I had a slowdown late afternoon, but called CS and they sent a hit to reset my modem and all was instantly fine again. I was thinking that it was a remnant of the storm and cable outage the night before.

On a side note, with the cable/Internet outage, I was glad that I had landline service with AT&T.

I have one of those shiny, new, refrigerator-sized boxes out front, and the qualification tool says I can't get U-verse yet.

There may be some other issues at play here that are bringing that result up as a false negative.

Exactly! So when you clicked the link what happened when you clicked the link? It seems to me you should be able to get it.

It says I can't get it, and I've tried random addresses around the east side and they all come up empty. I think there's a area of Mayfield Heights that has it, they were one of the first to get it because they let ATT in before the law was passed. I've also called them and asked and just get vague answers.

Now that we have established that you are in AT&T country let's talk about broadband. My experience with it was through Cincinnati Bell and it was terrible. Constant outages. I've been very happy with Adelphia/RoadRunner.

I had ATT DSL for many years and never had problems with it, I had much less latency/outages than with the WOW cable HSI. The problem with ATT is my distance from the central office, I max out at 2Mbps. With U-Verse however I would be able to get 6Mbps. Also with the DSL, ATT plays that game of signing you up for 12 months at a low teaser rate, then slamming you with a $60 bill on the 13th month. Then you play the musical CSR's to find one to renew you at the lower rate, and good luck trying to get credit for the one or two months they screwed you for. After a few years of playing that game with ATT, I got fed up.

Oh, and there was the silly landline requirement they had for a while with the ATT DSL, so that slapped on another $40 of mostly garbage fees and taxes.

I had ATT DSL for many years and never had problems with it, I had much less latency/outages than with the WOW cable HSI. The problem with ATT is my distance from the central office, I max out at 2Mbps. With U-Verse however I would be able to get 6Mbps. Also with the DSL, ATT plays that game of signing you up for 12 months at a low teaser rate, then slamming you with a $60 bill on the 13th month. Then you play the musical CSR's to find one to renew you at the lower rate, and good luck trying to get credit for the one or two months they screwed you for. After a few years of playing that game with ATT, I got fed up.

Oh, and there was the silly landline requirement they had for a while with the ATT DSL, so that slapped on another $40 of mostly garbage fees and taxes.

I wanted to correct that from "broadband" to DSL. That's what I meant.

AT&T is no different then the major cable companies. They will put it to you any chance they get.

nickdawg has talked a bit about how they have all digital in his area. In my area we still don't.

Despite the fact that WBNX is now in HD it is still shown in analog in our area, as opposed to WUAB which is analog converted to digital. So I decided to check out how much disk space an hour long show takes.

Now some of you may know or not know that I am a bit of a daytime court show freak. I don't record them all, just a few. For an hour long show I chose The Peoples Court (analog) vs Judge Mathis (digital).

One of the things TiVo does not have that cable companies have on their DVR's is the Disk Space Graph. However a creative person in the TiVo Forum created a program that will actually show you not only the graph, but also how much space each show is using. You can see the space amount also on the TiVo info button when you go to play a show which I imagine is how he gets his info.

Anyway it works out to this: Peoples Court, 2.70gb. Judge Mathis 1.26 GB.

So it takes over twice the amount of space for an analog show vs a digital show. I should add this is recording on my "best" choice for analog. Digital does not give you that choice. And think about all those channels in analog still! What a waste of space.
:(

WOW high-speed has been consistently good for me. Almost always get download speeds of 4Mbps or more.

About two months ago, I had a couple of days where it was slow in the afternoon. I called CS and they sent someone out to give me a new modem, even though the situation seemed to resolve itself after they sent a hit to reset the modem.

Yesterday, I had a slowdown late afternoon, but called CS and they sent a hit to reset my modem and all was instantly fine again. I was thinking that it was a remnant of the storm and cable outage the night before.

On a side note, with the cable/Internet outage, I was glad that I had landline service with AT&T.

Same here, WOW cable/internet/phone has been quite reliable. I regularly run as many as three internet media streaming devices simultaneously (including evenings) with out even a hiccup.

Maybe twice a year the WOW Voip/Internet modem will have a tantrum, but a simple 30 second hold of it's reset button resolves it. :)

So it takes over twice the amount of space for an analog show vs a digital show. I should add this is recording on my "best" choice for analog. Digital does not give you that choice. And think about all those channels in analog still! What a waste of space.
:(

Every CE device that digitizes an analog program in order to record it has to pass it through an A-->D converter, then through the mpeg compressor. Those stages are built around CE-quality chipsets. They do the job, but there are design compromises that must be made in terms of balancing performance vs price. As a result, they're not the most efficient chipsets in the market.

A program that starts out as digital has already been compressed by a very high end system, either during post production, uplinking or distribution. These systems are far more efficient at squeezing out redundant data, so they're able to leave a smaller footprint on your hard drive.

However a creative person in the TiVo Forum created a program that will actually show you not only the graph, but also how much space each show is using.

Since I'm too lazy to search for this, do you have a link to this program? This is one feature I'd love to add to my TiVo...

Since I'm too lazy to search for this, do you have a link to this program? This is one feature I'd love to add to my TiVo...

As you may or may not know I have been banned from the TiVo Forum but I contacted a "friend":rolleyes: and he was able to come up with the following: http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/c/dcahoe/tivo/index.htm.

I had some problem the last time I tried to download from that link but the designer of the program was in Hawaii and I contacted him at his email which is dcahoe@bellsouth.net. He sent me a copy of the program so if you have problems contact him, although I'll bet the link is fixed now. You can and should also leave a paypal donation at that address after you have tried this. It's truly a wonderful app. You will need your mak number for the password and the user name is tivo in small letters just like I typed it. You only need to type in the size of your hard drive, i.e. my S3 has 750gb with the eSATA and then you can figure out the rest. You will also need to write down the ip address of your TiVo (s). If it's on a protected wireless server like mine you may need to change it from time to time but it's usually just one number at the end and you cand just play with it until you find it, or go look at the TiVo at your phone and wireless settings.

Despite the fact that WBNX is now in HD it is still shown in analog in our area, as opposed to WUAB which is analog converted to digital.

I'm confused...you don't get WBNX HD on 407? Or are you just recording analog 7?

I'm confused...you don't get WBNX HD on 407? Or are you just recording analog 7?

In the words of another American Icon, Richard Nixon, "Let me be perfectly clear.":)

Yes, I get WBNX HD on 407. I also get WBNX analog on channel 7.

My complaint is the fact the WBNX is not available to us on channel 7 in digital.

And I'm also complaining about all the other channels that are still in analog.

If nickdawg can get digital and they convert it to analog for their no box people, why can't we? And analog converted to digital is not that great. It really seems stupid to have analog channels converted to digital and not vice versa.

Plus the fact that nickdawg doesn't deserve anything better then what I get. I don't like the idea of him having any advantage over me.:p

And yes I know, I've already said it "digital doesn't mean better then analog" but it does use more bandwith.

I swear we live in the bizarro world when it comes to cable television around here.

Yes, I get WBNX HD on 407. I also get WBNX analog on channel 7.

My complaint is the fact the WBNX is not available to us on channel 7 in digital. :confused:
How can ch 7 be digital if it's analog? What you really want to say is why can't 407 be mapped down to 7 on your TiVO. I presume the digitals map down on all the standard issue cable boxes, as it also does on my Dish Network DVR and I presume on the DirecTV IRD's too.

Does 3, 5, 8 & 19 map down in digital on your TiVO? If so you have a letigimate beef with TW. All the locals should map down in digital equally.

BTW: on my E* 622 I get 3 of every local station: SD via satellite, HD via satellite, and HD via OTA, al mapped down to the proper channel (sort-of) 003-00 is both the SD & HD satelite-delivered number, while 003-01 is the HD OTA. This came in handy the other day when WEWS had a problem with the audio feed on their HD feed. Both the satellite and OTA feed were silent, while the SD feed (analog digitized by E*) had audio.

In the words of another American Icon, Richard Nixon, "Let me be perfectly clear.":)

Yes, I get WBNX HD on 407. I also get WBNX analog on channel 7.

My complaint is the fact the WBNX is not available to us on channel 7 in digital.

And I'm also complaining about all the other channels that are still in analog.

If nickdawg can get digital and they convert it to analog for their no box people, why can't we? And analog converted to digital is not that great. It really seems stupid to have analog channels converted to digital and not vice versa.

Plus the fact that nickdawg doesn't deserve anything better then what I get. I don't like the idea of him having any advantage over me.:p

And yes I know, I've already said it "digital doesn't mean better then analog" but it does use more bandwith.

I swear we live in the bizarro world when it comes to cable television around here.

Quit complaining!!! The faux-digital local channels look like crap. I wish they would keep analog source feeds analog. The result is a blurry mess that pixelates and has analog interference/ghosting. The best, or should I say WORST of both worlds.

Plus we are not saving bandwidth. An analog version still exists 'in the clear' for those parasites without STBs.

Don't worry hook, I don't have an advantage. YOU have the advantage over me. I've hated the fake digital.

I can't wait until cable starts center cutting the HD channel for SDTV. At least then there will be a digital to analog conversion rather than the other way.

:confused:
How can ch 7 be digital if it's analog? What you really want to say is why can't 407 be mapped down to 7 on your TiVO. I presume the digitals map down on all the standard issue cable boxes, as it also does on my Dish Network DVR and I presume on the DirecTV IRD's too.

Does 3, 5, 8 & 19 map down in digital on your TiVO? If so you have a letigimate beef with TW. All the locals should map down in digital equally.

BTW: on my E* 622 I get 3 of every local station: SD via satellite, HD via satellite, and HD via OTA, al mapped down to the proper channel (sort-of) 003-00 is both the SD & HD satelite-delivered number, while 003-01 is the HD OTA. This came in handy the other day when WEWS had a problem with the audio feed on their HD feed. Both the satellite and OTA feed were silent, while the SD feed (analog digitized by E*) had audio.


First let's get one thing clear. This isn't a discussion about E* being better then cable or D*. I don't dispute that.

Now having said that I don't expect you to understand what I am talking about, but I will try to explain so you can get the whole picture.

Back when Adelphia was around they took their analog channels for the networks that were also in HD and upconverted them to digital. Therefore channels 3, 4, (19) 5, and 8 were all digital if you had a converter box.

You could also see these channels on then channel 803, 804 (19), 805, and 808 on analog.

If you were hooked into a wall and pushed channel 3, what you were looking at was actually 803. Boxes saw upconverted digital. Now we know this because we get dolby 2.0 signals from those channels. and pcm from the 800 channels.

At that time WBNX did not even have digital let alone HD so all they had was analog. When TW came around and eventually added WBNX HD they did not create a digital mirror for channel 7. That remained in analog.

Now we can't see those 800 channels any longer but we can still see that channels 3, 4 (19), 5 and 8 are digital because they show as dolby 2.0. Also the comparison of disk space to use to record an analog program is over twice as much as that of digital.

However in nickdawg land all of his channels are digital even though we are all in the same cable company. We know this because nickdawg sees dolby 2.0 on all the lower channels, including FX, USA, TRU TV, etc. So whatever he records on those channels uses less disk space then what I do. It also uses less bandwith which could be used for more HD channels.

Hope that explains it to you. And trust me when I moved in here in 2004 I called D* and I could not get it because of line of site with my trees. My next door neighbor however, who is about a football field away from me has a small opening. I know because I walked the D* guy over there.

I'm confused, but...

The upshot is that:

A) 3, 5 and 8 at least send fiber feeds from the stations to the cable headend(s). The only true "analog" in this discussion is on the cable end if you don't have a box.

B) Most of the other stations are picked up over the air in analog. Some look OK, some look awful. None of those stations are getting downconverted by TWC - they're just passing along the analog signals as usual.

C) B above will go away after 2/17/09, because analog itself will go away. Likely, the other stations that don't have a fiber feed to the TWC headend(s) will be downconverted off digital OTA, and center cut as nickdawg suggests for the analog viewers.

D) The fiber feed stations won't change a thing after 2/17. They'll continue to pump a 4:3 SD signal, I presume, to TWC so they can downconvert it for analog viewers. They'll continue to pump the HD signal down the pipe so it can air in the 4xx range.

I could be wrong about any of this, but this is how I see it.

I'm confused, but...

The upshot is that:

A) 3, 5 and 8 at least send fiber feeds from the stations to the cable headend(s). The only true "analog" in this discussion is on the cable end if you don't have a box.

B) Most of the other stations are picked up over the air in analog. Some look OK, some look awful. None of those stations are getting downconverted by TWC - they're just passing along the analog signals as usual.

C) B above will go away after 2/17/09, because analog itself will go away. Likely, the other stations that don't have a fiber feed to the TWC headend(s) will be downconverted off digital OTA, and center cut as nickdawg suggests for the analog viewers.

D) The fiber feed stations won't change a thing after 2/17. They'll continue to pump a 4:3 SD signal, I presume, to TWC so they can downconvert it for analog viewers. They'll continue to pump the HD signal down the pipe so it can air in the 4xx range.

I could be wrong about any of this, but this is how I see it.

Well, I don't think you're correct about A. My understanding in our area that it is converted analog.

However everything else you said makes sense.

There was a big discussion about this a while back and I would like to think that we get the digital feed direct but if you compare the picture to the other digital channels, it's just not right.

However it could be like nickdawg has said; simply that anything below 15 or 20 is just crap no matter what.

Well, I don't think you're correct about A. My understanding in our area that it is converted analog.

However everything else you said makes sense.

I think I misstated B) up there.

Let me redo it:


B) Most of the other stations are picked up over the air in analog. Some look OK, some look awful. None of those stations are getting downconverted by TWC - they're just passing along the analog signals as usual on the channels that are not being converted to digital feeds by TWC.


In other words, that'd probably only apply to 19, assuming they aren't sending fiber to TWC.

3/5/8 are SD fiber from TWC, digitized on digital cable boxes, sent in analog for those who don't have boxes.

After 2/17/09, ALL the local channels will be center cut downconvert from HD. SD feeds at the affiliate will no longer exist. The networks are killing the SD feeds, which is why the bugs are over from the corner, so they are still visible on 4:3.

If 3,5 and 8 are fiber feeds, they must be analog from the source. The 'digital' versions of these channels don't look that good. Although they are better than channels like WBNX and WNEO.

After 2/17/09, ALL the local channels will be center cut downconvert from HD. SD feeds at the affiliate will no longer exist. The networks are killing the SD feeds, which is why the bugs are over from the corner, so they are still visible on 4:3.

Well, that's not entirely accurate, as some stations aren't sending out HD at all (i.e. WVPX/23, etc.).

But that's a good question...will the stations actually kill their existing SD fiber feeds? I imagine that happens if they kill them because they'll no longer be sending out the separate analog feed to the analog transmitter. But the cable systems will still be running 4:3 SD/analog channels.

I know the stations that don't have fiber feeds, the systems will have no choice but to take the OTA digital, and centercut the 16:9 feeds for analog downconversion. I just don't know the answer regarding the stations sending out the dedicated cable fiber feeds.

If 3,5 and 8 are fiber feeds, they must be analog from the source. The 'digital' versions of these channels don't look that good. Although they are better than channels like WBNX and WNEO.

Well, I believe all three of those stations, 3/5/8, are running digital control rooms in HD now. So they aren't sending true "analog" source to the cable systems, per se, but are sending the SD output from their plant.

WBNX, WNEO/WEAO, etc., which don't send fiber down to TWC, TWC is taking those analog signals off air.

This is about as far as I'll go on this, because I'm probably wrong still on some of this.

Well, that's not entirely accurate, as some stations aren't sending out HD at all (i.e. WVPX/23, etc.).

But that's a good question...will the stations actually kill their existing SD fiber feeds? I imagine that happens if they kill them because they'll no longer be sending out the separate analog feed to the analog transmitter. But the cable systems will still be running 4:3 SD/analog channels.

I know the stations that don't have fiber feeds, the systems will have no choice but to take the OTA digital, and centercut the 16:9 feeds for analog downconversion. I just don't know the answer regarding the stations sending out the dedicated cable fiber feeds.

I meant that for stations already broadcasting in HD. I believe WVPX is supposed to flash cut to digital on the 2/17/09, but not HD. But the others like 3, 5 and 8 currently run two feeds: one HD and one SD. The HD goes over the digital channel and the SD over the analog channel. Once the analog OTA channel goes away, OTA viewers will be getting and downconverting for SD with the CECBs. Cable and satellite will downconvert for SD from the HD feeds. The networks have no reason to send down two feeds anymore. It's been reported that networks ordered falls shows to be 4:3 safe for downconversion. Cable fiber feeds will still be there, but most likely HD, which will be downconverted.

Well, I believe all three of those stations, 3/5/8, are running digital control rooms in HD now. So they aren't sending true "analog" source to the cable systems, per se, but are sending the SD output from their plant.

WBNX, WNEO/WEAO, etc., which don't send fiber down to TWC, TWC is taking those analog signals off air.

This is about as far as I'll go on this, because I'm probably wrong still on some of this.

I think what's going on here, and I think hook said this, that TWC is downconverting for analog then upconverting for digital. I just look at WJW and there's no way that's real digital. The picture is washed out looking and colors are off. The PQ is about that of You Tube. Comparing a show like King of the Hill in SD between 8 amd 408, 408 looks better.

If 3,5 and 8 are fiber feeds, they must be analog from the source. The 'digital' versions of these channels don't look that good. Although they are better than channels like WBNX and WNEO.

I agree with you I think it is analog at the source, however and it may very well be because I use TiVo WBNX actually looks better then the digital channels on my television then the upgraded digital (despite what Inundated says). This statement is made only for the stations under channel 20.


Peoples Court: Sharp, clear, good loud sound.

Judge Mathis: A little washed out and sound quality, even though it's Dolby 2.0 has less volume.

Now I compared the pictures when I had the opportunity to view 806, analog, and I will admit that in the case of WUAB I did not see much, if any picture difference. The volume however was louder.

Now I compared the pictures when I had the opportunity to view 806, analog, and I will admit that in the case of WUAB I did not see much, if any picture difference. The volume however was louder.

I think you guys have basically figured it out on this whole thing.

I will note that - and I know others have said this - that TWC's digital vs. analog volume levels are awful.

I'm not at all surprised that analog 806 was louder. On my S2 TiVo, I have to turn up the digital channels' volume pretty significantly...then when I tune down to an analog channel, it blows me out of the room, and I'm diving for the remote to turn it down again.

OK, I just went back and forth on my analog tube set here between 7 and 8, and 7 is MUCH louder. And I have a digital cable box on this.

My TiVo has just added new channel/listings for 23 as "EULOCA".

This is TWC's "Northeast Ohio Network" local programming channel, that used to be on 15 on the old Adelphia system...and has always been on 23 on the legacy Akron/Canton systems.

And for the first time ever, it actually has listings.

I think you guys have basically figured it out on this whole thing.

I will note that - and I know others have said this - that TWC's digital vs. analog volume levels are awful.

I'm not at all surprised that analog 806 was louder. On my S2 TiVo, I have to turn up the digital channels' volume pretty significantly...then when I tune down to an analog channel, it blows me out of the room, and I'm diving for the remote to turn it down again.

OK, I just went back and forth on my analog tube set here between 7 and 8, and 7 is MUCH louder. And I have a digital cable box on this.

Inundated, does your Tivo have an adjustment for audio dynamic range? If it does, this could help equalize the difference between digital and analog volume levels. Setting the dynamic range to "narrow" helps with this. Digital channels have more dynamic range, so the programmers tend to use that additional headroom by running the average level on the low side, so they can use that extra headroom for a big boom when they need it without hitting the ceiling. The narrow audio setting tends to compensate for this.

If the analog channels are turned down to match the digitals, this compromises the s/n and tends to increase hiss in the audio. It's an ongoing battle in the industry, and there's not a really good answer other than establishing a dialnorm value and sticking with that (something that happens at the programming source, not the headend).

Inundated, does your Tivo have an adjustment for audio dynamic range? If it does, this could help equalize the difference between digital and analog volume levels. Setting the dynamic range to "narrow" helps with this.

Thanks for the explanation!

The only audio adjustment I can make on the TiVo S2 is changing the main audio program from stereo to mono, or to SAP. I just kicked it on mono, and we'll see if that helps. (This set is a pretty standard 20" tube set with only the speakers on the side, I don't really care if it's stereo.)

I think the cable box has some adjustments for audio, but I haven't really had any luck with that.

Breaking News for NEO TWC customers:

Got a letter in the mail today from TWC saying that SDV starts on
Monday 10/20/08. Tuning Adapters will be offered later this year.
It is currently believed that they will be offered at no charge.

Ben Music

Interesting. I wonder what channels they are going to put up initially on the SDV list?

Interesting. I wonder what channels they are going to put up initially on the SDV list?

Included with the letter is a list of about 80 ch's that will
be delivered using SDV. The letter states that they are
lesser viewed channels. The good thing about this is now
there will be more room for lots of new HD channels.

Ben Music

Breaking News for NEO TWC customers:

Got a letter in the mail today from TWC saying that SDV starts on
Monday 10/20/08. Tuning Adapters will be offered later this year.
It is currently believed that they will be offered at no charge.

Ben Music

I have a cablecard in my TV, and I just talk to Time Warner and they told me that I would have to get a HD box to pick up the HD channels going to SDV.
Is the Tuning Adapter only for Tivo type devices or can I use it with my Cablecard TV?

I have a cablecard in my TV, and I just talk to Time Warner and they told me that I would have to get a HD box to pick up the HD channels going to SDV.
Is the Tuning Adapter only for Tivo type devices or can I use it with my Cablecard TV?

Depends on the hardware in your television. If it's capable of two way communication, then no you don't.

So how do you know? Simple. Can you get On Demand now? If so, you have nothing to worry about.

Included with the letter is a list of about 80 ch's that will
be delivered using SDV. The letter states that they are
lesser viewed channels. The good thing about this is now
there will be more room for lots of new HD channels.

Ben Music

Yes, that's suppose to be the point but the question is what channels and when will they arrive?

No letter for me.

And I think that Oct. 10 date has as much validity as their conversion date.

Also I live way East of you. Were you ex Adelphia or Comcast by any chance?

Depends on the hardware in your television. If it's capable of two way communication, then no you don't.

So how do you know? Simple. Can you get On Demand now? If so, you have nothing to worry about.

Thanks for the info.

Yes, that's suppose to be the point but the question is what channels and when will they arrive?

No letter for me.

And I think that Oct. 10 date has as much validity as their conversion date.

Also I live way East of you. Were you ex Adelphia or Comcast by any chance?

Hook, I'm joining the 'dark side' with you on this one. Until I have a letter in my hands stating we're getting SDV, I'll take that claim with a grain of salt.

Days like today will actually make me miss analog OTA broadcast. Tonight WKYC made a real dick move and decided to dump 'Chuck' so we can watch the Indians get their asses handed to them by Detroit in primetime. Of course I look ahead in the guide. No Chuck later. I get two hours of paid program at 3AM, but no Chuck. Checked Titan TV and WKYC.com and the same listing---PAID F'ING PROGRAM.

Luckily the DTV transition hasn't occurred yet so I can still bring out the rabbit ears and watch (an extremely fuzzy) WFMJ on the old TV in my bedroom. It looks like I might be stuck buying new antenna and converter box next year. No way the signal I currently get would be strong enough to pick up a digital signal.

Wait, Chuck doesn't premiere until 9/29, right?

Days like today will actually make me miss analog OTA broadcast. Tonight WKYC made a real dick move and decided to dump 'Chuck' so we can watch the Indians get their asses handed to them by Detroit in primetime......

I was at the game last night. If you are lucky another great bench clearing brawl will break out between them. :D

I'm thrilled to hear you guys are getting the SDV feeds, should be interesting (time schedule and technical bugs). HOPEFULLY the few WOW customers in here won't be too far behind in possibly getting SDV. Maybe when the Browns are in the Superbowl? :eek:

Wait, Chuck doesn't premiere until 9/29, right?

It's not a new episode, just replays of last season. But I still want to see it.

I was at the game last night. If you are lucky another great bench clearing brawl will break out between them. :D

I'm thrilled to hear you guys are getting the SDV feeds, should be interesting (time schedule and technical bugs). HOPEFULLY the few WOW customers in here won't be too far behind in possibly getting SDV. Maybe when the Browns are in the Superbowl? :eek:

A brawl? Hmmm. I might have to keep the game on another TV just in case. :D

I'm surprised WOW doesn't already have SDV. That's what doesn't sit well with me about this TWC claim. TWC is a giant system. Going SDV is much harder for them than a smaller system like WOW.

It's not a new episode, just replays of last season. But I still want to see it.



A brawl? Hmmm. I might have to keep the game on another TV just in case. :D

I'm surprised WOW doesn't already have SDV. That's what doesn't sit well with me about this TWC claim. TWC is a giant system. Going SDV is much harder for them than a smaller system like WOW.

Yeah, it was quite a night! Four players were ejected for the fight. Beautiful evening, free bobblehead night, come from behind win (3 run homer in 8th to tie, won in bottom of 9th), fireworks (after the game, not referring to the brawl), and a free ticket to boot!

But at $6.75 for a beer, you pay one way or another. ;)

WOW may have SDV, I dunno. I've never seen any mention of it, combined with their lackluster lineup of available HD ch's, so I doubt it. :(

The fireworks would have been a lot better, if they had turned of all the advertising signs above the score-board! They also need a rule about pitcher changes at the start of an inning. The pitcher throws his warm-up pitches then the batter comes up to the plate and the change pitchers before the first pitch.

Wow, I'm surprised. Rather than canning the end of Golf(like I thought they would) WKYC is dumping the Indians to STO. UN-FING BELIEVABLE!! This is the same channel that dumped the Olympics on the next-to-last day for a stupid browns pre season loss.

I swear. Sometimes these people can be so smart and do such great things(like HD syndicated shows) and other times they can be total idiots...

I have a cablecard in my TV, and I just talk to Time Warner and they told me that I would have to get a HD box to pick up the HD channels going to SDV.
Is the Tuning Adapter only for Tivo type devices or can I use it with my Cablecard TV?

I believe the only CE unit that offers an external SDV tuner right now is Tivo. Samsung has been promising a "Tru-2-Way" TV set for awhile now, and I know they were testing one in a lab somewhere, but I have yet to see a two-way device in the wild.

Remember that it's the host device, not the cablecard, that determines whether it's one-way or two-way. The cablecard itself only manages the crypto and conditional access logic. It has no RF processing inside. The TV set has to contain a return-path (upstream) transmitter to make it two-way, in the same sense that a cable modem has an upstream modulator.

I believe the only CE unit that offers an external SDV tuner right now is Tivo. Samsung has been promising a "Tru-2-Way" TV set for awhile now, and I know they were testing one in a lab somewhere, but I have yet to see a two-way device in the wild.

Remember that it's the host device, not the cablecard, that determines whether it's one-way or two-way. The cablecard itself only manages the crypto and conditional access logic. It has no RF processing inside. The TV set has to contain a return-path (upstream) transmitter to make it two-way, in the same sense that a cable modem has an upstream modulator.

Thanks for the explanation.

Included with the letter is a list of about 80 ch's that will
be delivered using SDV.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's SDV, and what difference will it make to a viewer that these 80 channels will be delivered that way? BTW I have an SA8300HD box.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's SDV, and what difference will it make to a viewer that these 80 channels will be delivered that way? BTW I have an SA8300HD box.

SDV is "switched digital video". It's a way TWC and other cable companies can free up bandwidth by putting a number of (presumably not-as-popular) channels off the main feed.

If a channel is SDV, your cable box will request it when you tune to it, and it'll be sent down the system to you. Otherwise, it won't be taking up general bandwidth.

That means TWC can clear some "space" for other channels, and in theory, offer a lot more choices.

The way SDV works, you'd pretty much have to put less popular channels in SDV-land, as I presume there are only a certain number of "slots" they could go into at the viewer end.

In theory, any recent digital cable box can handle SDV. I know my SA8000HD, which is the earlier version of the box you have, can do it... I've gone into the menus and found support for SDV on the 8000. It probably got added in a firmware update at some point long ago.

I have no idea what the user experience is like tuning to an SDV-based channel, but I presume it wouldn't take much more (if any more) time than tuning to a regular digital cable channel now.

BTW, here in Former Adelphia Land, no SDV letter yet. Is there any evidence they're doing this systemwide, or could it be only in the former Comcast areas?

Is anyone on the ex-Adelphia end of the system getting this letter? Or for that matter, in Akron or Canton?

Just curious to know if anyone knows if NEO is actively blocking firewire use on their boxes still? I just tried hooking up my 8300HDC today and it only brought up two unknown devices and neither a tuner or panel device as expected were found. Others have had this model work even with Navigator/Mystro so it's got to be a software restriction on the box in some shape or form.

As a result of this, I was planning to try swapping monday for an 8300HD or an earlier model HD box w/firewire if I could in hopes of finding one that would work. But if NEO's actively refusing firewire usage on these boxes, it'd be nice to know instead of constantly going through one after the other.

Or do you guys suppose I'd get better luck out of emailing Mr. Fry a polite note requesting the firewire access be enabled and that it is indeed an FCC regulation?

Thanks for the tip on what SDV is. I was just going to ask.. BTW, The Indians did beat the Tigers 6-3, with Sowers actually pitching decently. The Tribe is at 77-77-.500 for the first time since May 18.

Speaking of SDV, I did get two Navigator upgrades recently. My 8300HD downloaded an upgrade last week and the BD-V1000(Pioneer) in my bedroom downloaded an update this previous Tuesday. I don't see any obvious changes in the menus/graphics so I assume it must have been a OS update for SDV possibly? I didn't get any letter yet.

I had to look into the service menus for my SA8000HD...did so about 2-3 weeks ago, and I saw the SDV screens. They weren't "active", it appears, though I don't know what they look like when they are...but the support was there. There were three SDV-related screens and a few other references on other screens.

A quick primer, basic, on SDV:

Right now, TWC sends down all the channels you see on the lineup card, at all times, 24/7.

When they make this switch, they'll take 80 channels out of that 24/7 broadcasting, and basically turn them into "Cable Channels On Demand".

So, if you want a network like Discovery Health or the Fox Soccer Channel, you'll still get it. But when you tune to it, your cable box will send a quick "send me this channel!" message, and it'll send back the channel. It won't be "sitting out there" on the cable wire waiting for you to find it...it'll be on request.

Major, well-watched channels like the local network affiliates, CNN, ESPN, USA and the like will not be moved to SDV...it would defeat the purpose.

Since the 80 channels won't be sent down the line full-time anymore, it opens up a lot of bandwidth to add new services, both on SDV and on the main cable line. It's hoped, of course, here, that a lot of 'em will be much requested HD channels...

This is what I have:

Switched Digital Broadcast

Authorized SDV NOT ENABLED
SDB Server Reg -
SDB Svc Group -
Registration Time -
SDB Server Port -
Total Tx-Rx -
LUA Rep Tx -
SelReq Tx -
SelConf Rx -
DSMCC SessID -
SDB Freq 801.000 MHz

Last CPP Error -




Also, I get 'SDV Not Enabled' on the Hardware screen.

Major, well-watched channels like the local network affiliates, CNN, ESPN, USA and the like will not be moved to SDV...it would defeat the purpose.


Interesting. I'm currently seeing channels in the 700s and 900s that are SDV(confirmed by diagnostics) including those.

787 A&E
788 DISC
789 HGTV
790 LIFE
791 TBS
792 USA
793 WE
796 ESPN
797 FSN
798 TNT
799 TWC
948 FAM
949 FX
950 FNC
951 HIST
952 MTV
953 NICK
954 TLC
955 SPIKE

Take channel 792 USA under 'Current Service Info':

Service ID 1525
Name USA SDV
Grid/Banner USA/Switch Digital Video
App URL <internal svc>
Type/Channel WTV (DVR SDB) / ch:792

Interesting. I'm currently seeing channels in the 700s and 900s that are SDV(confirmed by diagnostics) including those.

Interesting. Most of those channels are quite popular.

I'd be shocked if they were SDV only. It just makes no sense, considering what SDV is used for. It wouldn't seem to make sense to force switched versions down the line of channels that will have many viewers.

Maybe they'll become the digital dopplegangers of the analog versions? Right now, TWC only (at least here) sends those "digital cable" versions as a direct mirror of the analog side. Maybe these SDV versions will replace that mirroring, leaving the analogs still going as long as TWC offers expanded basic analog.

Though, this line of yours has me lost:


Also, I get 'SDV Not Enabled' on the Hardware screen.


How can the channels you list be sent by SDV when it isn't happening yet? :)

I just updated with what I get on diagnostics with those 700s/900s channels. I'm not sure what it means. The OP said there was a list of 80 channels, that's nowhere near 80. A few of those could be SDV candidates(weather, WE, LIFE) but I don't think USA or ESPN would be, since there are limitations with how many can receive the stream for each channel.

How can the channels you list be sent by SDV when it isn't happening yet? :)

Nothing is being sent on those channels. They just have a blank screen with the message to 'CALL CABLE' and the phone number is listed. Basically, they are not turned on. They're disabled like unsubscribed premium channels.

A few of those could be SDV candidates(weather, WE, LIFE) but I don't think USA or ESPN would be, since there are limitations with how many can receive the stream for each channel.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't know much of the technical background behind SDV, but I get the idea that putting popular channels there wouldn't be a good idea due to those limitations. And those channels will continue to be sent in analog form for as long as TWC offers analog service.

Nothing is being sent on those channels. They just have a blank screen with the message to 'CALL CABLE' and the phone number is listed. Basically, they are not turned on. They're disabled like unsubscribed premium channels.

Oh, they're your versions of the upper 800-series channels we had here until the realignment.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't know much of the technical background behind SDV, but I get the idea that putting popular channels there wouldn't be a good idea due to those limitations. And those channels will continue to be sent in analog form for as long as TWC offers analog service.

I don't think it's so much a technical limitation (though I'm not 100% up on the technical side of the technology), but as you said earlier: It kind of cancels out the need for SDV when they are high-view channels being watched by at least one person 95%+ of the time. It makes much more sense for channels like the numerous shopping channels and some of the more obscure niche networks.

SDV ends up being like On Demand channels except for one major footnote: It still continues to broadcast just one stream that everyone tunes into simultaneously as the current non-SDV system does. So as long as at least one person is tuned to the channel, it's going out once and subsequent viewers can tune in almost immediately. But if no one is viewing it, the channel is dropped and bandwidth is returned.

Just figured I'd throw that tidbit out just-in-case. The term 'Cable On Demand' was mentioned and I didn't see anyone cover the single-stream aspect.

Interesting. Most of those channels are quite popular.

I'd be shocked if they were SDV only. It just makes no sense, considering what SDV is used for. It wouldn't seem to make sense to force switched versions down the line of channels that will have many viewers.

Maybe they'll become the digital dopplegangers of the analog versions? Right now, TWC only (at least here) sends those "digital cable" versions as a direct mirror of the analog side. Maybe these SDV versions will replace that mirroring, leaving the analogs still going as long as TWC offers expanded basic analog.

Though, this line of yours has me lost:



How can the channels you list be sent by SDV when it isn't happening yet? :)

If you look at the line up in Austin they have "Switched Basic Simulcast." Now I don't have any idea how that works but I have to assume that it means it works with SDV and non SDV. Why that is necessary, I don't know


Switched Basic Simulcast Analogs
2 - KCWM (Hub AB)
5 / 6 - KENS (Hub AB @ 5 and Hubs U, AA, AC, AD @ 6)
6 - CITY (D1/CP)
6 - Local (Hub AB)
7 - Guide
10 - PACT1/Local
11 - PACT2
11 / 12 - KSAT (Hub U @ 11 and Hub AB @ 12)
13 - KAKW
14 - KADF
15 - ME-TV
16 - PACT3 (D1/CP)
17 - ACCESS (D2 Only)
18 / 380 - CSPAN (All but Hubs U, AA, AB, AC, AD)
18 - KPXL (Hub AB)
19 - ACC
20 / 255 - KLRU2
21 - WGN
22 - AISD (D1/CP)
98 - Photo (Hub U)
99 - Infor

Switched Standard Simulcast Analogs
24 / 270 - QVC
25 / 273 - HSN
28 / 213 - WE
29 / 297 - EWTN (Hub AB switched, all others regular digital)
38 / 170 - ION
44 / 355 - News 8 Doppler Radar
44 / 355 - Hill Country Radar (Hubs AB, AG)
64 / 555 - Tuner Classic Movies
70 / 590 - CMT
74 / 219 - Style
77 - TWC77
Switched Digital
102 - Disney West RTE
111 - Boomerang
125 - Nick Toons
217 - Soap (Hub AB Only)
261 - LOGO
274 - TV Superstore
275 - Shop NBC
277 - Gems
278 / 616 - Shop Latino
279 - Celebrity Shopping
281 - Americas Auction Network
284 - Shop at Home
285 - Jewelry TV
295 - The Word Network
348 - News 8 Traffic
358 - News 8 Weather
359 / 609 - News 8 Weather Spanish
363 - Fox Business
408 - New 8 NonStop Sports
436 - ESPNU
527 - FoxReality

Switched Sports Pak
431 - Fox Sports Atlantic
432 - Fox Sports Central
433 - Fox Sports Pacific
434 - Fuel
435 - NBA TV
438 - CSTV
455 - Tennis Channel
460 - Speedvision
471 - Verses
490 - Outdoor Channel

Switched International
601 - CNN Espanol
602 - Canal 24
604 - DocuTVE
606 - CanalSur
609 / 359 - News 8 Weather Spanish
611 - Toon Disney Spanish
612 - Cartoon Spanish
613 - Boomerang Spanish
614 - Sorpresa
616 / 278 - Shop Latino
617 - Fox Sports SW Espanol
618 - ESPN Deportes
626 - TVE International
629 - La Familia
630 - SiTV
632 - Infinito
633 - HTV
634 - Video Rola
636 - MUN 2
637 - MTV Tres
640 - CineLatino
644 - Discovery Espanol
645 - HITN
649 - EWTN Spanish
695 - Deutche Welle TV (Hub AB only)

Switched HBOs
708 - HBO WEST
709 - HBOPLUS WEST
710 - HBOSIG WEST
711 - HBFAMILY WEST
712 - HBCOMEDY WEST
713 - HBOZONE WEST
714 - HBLATINO WEST

Switched Cinemax
723 - CINEMAX WEST
724 - MORMAX WEST
725 - ACTNMAX WEST
726 - THRILMAX WEST

Switched Encore
761 - Encore West

Switched ESPN GamePlan
901 - Sport PPV-1
902 - Sports PPV-2
903 - Sports PPV-3
904 - Sports PPV-4
905 - Sports PPV-5
906 - Sports PPV-6

Switched NBA/MLS
910 - NBA
911 - TEAM1
912 - TEAM2
913 - TEAM3
914 - TEAM4
915 - TEAM5
916 - TEAM6
917 - TEAM7
918 - TEAM8
919 - TEAM9
1649 - TEAM HD

Switched NHL/MLB
960 - Game 1
961 - Game 2
962 - Game 3
963 - Game 4
964 - Game 5
965 - Game 6
966 - Game 7
967 - Game 8
968 - Game 9
969 - Game 10
970 - Game 11
971 - Game 12
972 - Game 13
973 - Game 14
1648 - Game HD

Switched Playboy
940 - Playboy Enhanced

Switched Adult/PPV
941 - Ten
942 - TenBlox
943 - Ten Clips
952 - IND 2

Switched HD Digitals
1611 - HGTV HD
1612 - Food HD
1620 - National Geographic HD
247 / 1626 - History Channel HD
311 / 1630 - CNN HD
351 / 1633 - The Weather Channel HD
364 / 1634 - Fox Business HD
1639 - Fox Sports HD
471 / 1646 - VS / Golf HD
502 / 1653 - TBS HD
566 / 1658 - Lifetime Movie Network HD
241 / 1660 - A&E HD
572 / 1664 - Music HD

Switched Cinemax HD
1675 - Cinemax HD

Switched Movie Channel HD
1680 - The Movie Channel HD

Switched Starz HD
1684 - Starz HD

Now if you notice on that list none of the popular channels even appear so I don't think they will ever be SDV. Also notice that HBO HD and Showtime HD are not on the list.

Austin is a city that has complete SDV.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=316313&highlight=austin&page=101

Yes, that's suppose to be the point but the question is what channels and when will they arrive?

No letter for me.

And I think that Oct. 10 date has as much validity as their conversion date.

Also I live way East of you. Were you ex Adelphia or Comcast by any chance?

Hi Hook,

Yes, I am ex Comcast. I'm sure you will get your letter sometime this week. Don't we have to get Navigator before we get SDV?

By the way, years ago I Iived on Samuel Lord Dr. in Bainbridge Township. Isn't that near you?

Ben Music

Hi Hook,

Yes, I am ex Comcast. I'm sure you will get your letter sometime this week. Don't we have to get Navigator before we get SDV?

By the way, years ago I Iived on Samuel Lord Dr. in Bainbridge Township. Isn't that near you?

Ben Music

I live almost on the border of Aurora and Bainbridge, not too far from Geauga Lake.

I'm not certain you need Navigator, it would seem to me that all you need is two way communication. My understanding was that for a while at least people in former Comcast land with Moto boxes could not get On Demand. Now I haven't heard that complaint in quite a while so maybe that's resolved some how or perhaps all the moto boxes are changed.

According to nickdawg and others Navigator show SDV on their diagnostic screen.

I have heard many ex Comcast people complain about TW. It could be they are losing a lot of customers out that way. I wouldn't put it past Time Warner to send a letter out like that as a marketing ploy in hopes of not losing additional customers.

If they are going to introduce SDV soon and not give it to everyone at one time then it stands to reason that they would start with Navigator software.

I'll believe it when I see it and I'm not just talking about the letter. I'm talking about SDV.

And they darn well better have our tuning adapters ready for our TiVos. I probably won't need it for the channels they put on SDV unless they put their extra HD tier on there, which would make sense. I've been thinking about dumping that anyway.

If you look at the line up in Austin they have "Switched Basic Simulcast." Now I don't have any idea how that works but I have to assume that it means it works with SDV and non SDV. Why that is necessary, I don't know.

This would seem to be what I was guessing, earlier...that they have switched digital versions of the analog channels for digital boxes. Maybe this gives TWC Austin flexibility down the road, and they'll dump some of the analog feeds for these particular channels (i.e. non-broadcast, because they can't do that on OTA channels because HAVE to offer them analog as long as they offer analog at all).


According to nickdawg and others Navigator show SDV on their diagnostic screen.

Yeah, and just to clarify, I'm still on SARA, and the screen shows up under SARA. I don't know if my SA8000HD will ever get Navigator.

Hook,

You are right about On Demand. Mine has not worked for several years. The only reason I hold on to my Moto Series 3 box is that it never skips a beat otherwise. No missed recordings, no resets, or any other problems. I'm just going to wait till till 10/20 to see if SDV
is going to work. If not, I'll have to trade it in for a SA box.

I keep hoping they will purchase some of the new model SA boxes so that I can have the latest updated hardware. That may be just wishfull thinking on my part. I get the impression from the TWC letter that the tuning adapters wont be available on 10/20, but will
be ready before the end of the year, or sooner.

Ben Music

Hook,

You are right about On Demand. Mine has not worked for several years. The only reason I hold on to my Moto Series 3 box is that it never skips a beat otherwise. No missed recordings, no resets, or any other problems. I'm just going to wait till till 10/20 to see if SDV
is going to work. If not, I'll have to trade it in for a SA box.

I keep hoping they will purchase some of the new model SA boxes so that I can have the latest updated hardware. That may be just wishfull thinking on my part. I get the impression from the TWC letter that the tuning adapters wont be available on 10/20, but will
be ready before the end of the year, or sooner.

Ben Music


I think this (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_explorer8300HDCDVR.htm) is the one TW is now offerring. Not a heck of alot of info about it.

They also have a link for the 8300 HD HCD DVR MULTI ROOM but when you click on the link it takes you to the non HD instructions and says it cannot play HD.:confused:

Or do you guys suppose I'd get better luck out of emailing Mr. Fry a polite note requesting the firewire access be enabled and that it is indeed an FCC regulation?

Firewire requires 5C copy protection (http://www.dtcp.com/data/wp_spec.pdf) compliance by law. Is the device that you're connecting it to compliant?

Firewire requires 5C copy prtection compliance by law. Is the device that you're connecting it to compliant?

I'm hooking it up to my XP machine which, while it's not 5C compliant, should still at least show up with the relevant tuner hardware. It does not, which clearly shows a limitation instituted on the box itself by TW.

Ref: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695

Anybody else getting WOIO Browns/Ravens in HD? Getting 4:3 SD picture here over D*.

Edit: There we go, HD now.

I thought all the NFL games were supposed to be in HD this year? WTF CBS, flip the switch!

Watching the Browns on D*, on channel 19-1 (CBS).

*EDIT- Nevermind. It's in HD now. Slow reaction at WOIO apparently.

Channel 19 does not deserve to be an outlet for a major network. They constantly screw things up. They should go to the CW and let channel 55 have the CBS feed.

I predicted this at the start of the season...the 19 tech folks aren't used to all the games being in HD this year, so they're slow at the switch...

If you currently have SARA, SDV will work. SDV actually works with all three firmware systems(although Passport would require an update). But TWC dumped Passport in favor of Navigator. My guess for the reason behind this decision is the old Pioneer boxes are not compatible with SARA. Even though Pioneer(now Aptiv Digital)Passport is compatible with all SA boxes, I get the feeling that SARA is not backwards-compatible with the Pioneer boxes. Rather than just trashing the Pioneer boxes(which I would gladly assist TWC in the process of, get me the chains, hook!:D) they decided to keep them and use the crappy software.

As for the SA boxes, you definitely want a slightly older, more familiar SA8300HD. Getting a 'new' box now would mean getting a SA8300HDC, and those are crap. I don't know what exactly it is about those boxes, but they are buggy and take forever to boot. It's just a poorly produced piece of crap in response to a bull $hit government regulation requiring 'open cable' that forces cable company equipment to use cable cards too. What the hell is this dumb government going to do next? Force cable companies to use those 'tuning resolvers' as well? :rolleyes:

Also, does anyone know if the 'tuning resolvers' will be provided by TWC or will Tivo users have to buy them? I really hope the second part is true. I'd hate to see TWC just give those things away. Let the tivo customers buy them or have to pay a monthly fee for them.

As for the SA boxes, you definitely want a slightly older, more familiar SA8300HD. Getting a 'new' box now would mean getting a SA8300HDC, and those are crap. I don't know what exactly it is about those boxes, but they are buggy and take forever to boot. It's just a poorly produced piece of crap in response to a bull $hit government regulation requiring 'open cable' that forces cable company equipment to use cable cards too. What the hell is this dumb government going to do next? Force cable companies to use those 'tuning resolvers' as well? :rolleyes:

Also, does anyone know if the 'tuning resolvers' will be provided by TWC or will Tivo users have to buy them? I really hope the second part is true. I'd hate to see TWC just give those things away. Let the tivo customers buy them or have to pay a monthly fee for them.

First let's address the hardware issue. Now from my understanding about the SA 8300 it was poorly designed in regards to the hardware. I myself do not know a thing about it but I have read many, many post from people who have and they have really talked badly about the hardware.

However this is the internet and nobody ever talks about anything positive. That includes TiVo.:rolleyes:

Now from what I've heard about the SA 8300HDC everyone pretty much agrees with you that it's a pos.

Now here is what I don't understand.

When the SA 8000 was designed I don't think that Cisco had bought the company. And I believe the SA 8300 was put into production during the Cisco purchase. It was, I believed, only a matter of time since Cisco was a company with a great reputation in internet applications that they would produce a good DVR.

Apparently being great on the internet does not translate do being great in DVR manufacturing.

Now as far as the Tuning Resolver, basically that is for TiVo people. It is designed so that TiVo can have two way communication. It was a joint effort between CableLabs, TiVo, and the Major Cable Companies and I think Motorola and SA.

They are going to be provided at NO COST which is almost unbelievable to people who own TiVos. This I believe was forced on them as a condition by either the FCC or CableLabs as it would not be fair for TiVo owners to have to buy additional equipment.

Ben Music I know you own a TiVo. Why even bother with those pos SA products? I suppose if you want on demand or purchase movies but I wouldn't ever let one in my house again.

And what about that multi room thing that SA offers? I'm sure TW will be offering that real soon!:rolleyes:

Heck they can't get a single room to work right, how in the heck can they make a multi room one?

nickdawg use rope, it's cheaper then chain.:D

THEY'RE PROVIDING THEM FOR FREE!!! WTF!! Does this mean I might be paying for it through my monthly bill? NOOOOOOOOO! I'm aiding and abetting Tvio!! :D

Damn FCC. Next thing you know they will make cable STBs use the tuning resolvers as well. Hey FCC, get back to issuing outrageous fines for a millisecond of boobie on TV. ;)

I'm hooking it up to my XP machine which, while it's not 5C compliant, should still at least show up with the relevant tuner hardware. It does not, which clearly shows a limitation instituted on the box itself by TW.

Ref: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695

Thanks. This is on an 8300HD?

Damn FCC. Next thing you know they will make cable STBs use the tuning resolvers as well. Hey FCC, get back to issuing outrageous fines for a millisecond of boobie on TV. ;)

First you have to realize that when TiVo was designed SDV was not in the picture. It was only after it went into production that SDV was introduced, or at least the idea of it. What about people who had HD televisions that were HD capable? The cable companies and cablelabs just came up with this screwed up idea of cable cards and you've seen what's happened. So don't blame TiVo or the FCC. Blame CableLabs.

You know the FCC fined Time Warner in Hawaii for using SDV. I don't know to what extent they use it but apparently it was to such an extent that the FCC found it warranted a fine for depriving to many other people of available stations.

So I suppose that would include HD televisions that are not two way capable.

Now the fine was 75,000.00, which to TW is a slap on the wrist but they were told that if changes wern't made additional action would be taken.

Thanks. This is on an 8300HD?

It's actually the 8300HDC I have here which, as mentioned by hookbill and nickdawg already and I can attest to as well, is a large pile of junk and slow to do anything.

If you check my latest post in that thread, the 8300HDC is only turning up 2 'unknown' devices whereas I SHOULD be seeing an AV/C Tuner and AV/C Panel device, both crucial in pulling video off the box over firewire. Even a few other posters there in other regions have gotten the HDC w/Navigator/Mystro to work.

I've got it in my head to just go swap in for an 8300HD and hope it works instead, but if NEO's doing this region-wide for all of their Navigator boxes, then the point is moot and I'd have swapped for nothing.

I was hoping someone here had already run through this and could at least say 'yeah, this setup works for me' or something similar so I could decide which route to take. It's either swap the box and hope it works or send a polite note to Mr. Fry and try to get the firewire working on the HDC here.

First you have to realize that when TiVo was designed SDV was not in the picture. It was only after it went into production that SDV was introduced, or at least the idea of it.
...snip...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the HD Tivo-Which is the only Tivo to support cablecard and thus is the only one even capable of working with SDV in the first place-was designed and built at the very least when the idea of SDV and crucial two-way functionality was all being written up as standards back at Cablelabs.

Clearly put, Tivo put themselves in this position by not spending the extra 50c per box to include two-way capable tuners that would not only add the possibility of giving their customers access to the cableco's on demand offerings, but this whole SDV mess would require nothing more than a small software update on Tivo's end to enable full SDV support.

The same goes for the current generation of HD/Cablecard ready HTPC's. The tuner manufacturers have their heads up their asses and never bothered to include an upstream modulator in their tuners so now these HTPC owners have to hook up yet another box to view SDV channels and not to mention they have to HOPE Microsoft or whoever's writing the media center software in question will bother adding in support for the tuning resolvers. At least if the tuner's were two-way capable originally, all the SDV tuning functionality could be written right to the cablecard and be done with it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the HD Tivo-Which is the only Tivo to support cablecard and thus is the only one even capable of working with SDV in the first place-was designed and built at the very least when the idea of SDV and crucial two-way functionality was all being written up as standards back at Cablelabs.

Clearly put, Tivo put themselves in this position by not spending the extra 50c per box to include two-way capable tuners that would not only add the possibility of giving their customers access to the cableco's on demand offerings, but this whole SDV mess would require nothing more than a small software update on Tivo's end to enable full SDV support.



You're not busting my bubble, and you don't understand what I was saying.

I was talking about the S3, not the TiVo HD. When the S3 was designed the idea of two way cable card was not in the picture at that time. Now I don't know where you get your information from but the hardware was designed to work with cable cards, not two way communication. When the S3 was designed there SDV was not part of the process. It was simply made to decode digital television and HD, which it does quite well.

Then the cable companies and cablelabs came ups with SDV and they put themselves in a position where they had to come up with a resolution for everyone who did invest in other technology. As I said before it was a joint effort that created the Tuner Resolver.

Even at the time of the development of TiVo HD that the Tuner Resolver was going to be developed. And to try and design hardware for two way communication for all the different cable companies out there, as you very well know is just about impossible. That is why the SA 8300 HCD is such a mess.

First you have to realize that when TiVo was designed SDV was not in the picture. It was only after it went into production that SDV was introduced, or at least the idea of it. What about people who had HD televisions that were HD capable? The cable companies and cablelabs just came up with this screwed up idea of cable cards and you've seen what's happened. So don't blame TiVo or the FCC. Blame CableLabs.

You know the FCC fined Time Warner in Hawaii for using SDV. I don't know to what extent they use it but apparently it was to such an extent that the FCC found it warranted a fine for depriving to many other people of available stations.

So I suppose that would include HD televisions that are not two way capable.

Now the fine was 75,000.00, which to TW is a slap on the wrist but they were told that if changes wern't made additional action would be taken.

They fined TWC FOR using SDV? WTF? Shame on the FCC for punishing a cable company for using modern technology. No surprise TWC is slow on adding SDV. ;)

But you already know how I feel about third party equipment. TWC should not have to spend money to adapt their network to someone else's third party equipment, especially unnecessary equipment. And it especially should NOT be done at the expense of other customers. My bill better not be going up because TWC has to fix problems with Tivo. If tivo is so grat, why don't they fix their customer's boxes? Why not let tivo customers trade in outdated boxes for new ones? Oh wait, that's TWC that does that, since you don't have to OWN the equipment! :p:p:p:p

They fined TWC FOR using SDV? WTF? Shame on the FCC for punishing a cable company for using modern technology. No surprise TWC is slow on adding SDV. ;)

But you already know how I feel about third party equipment. TWC should not have to spend money to adapt their network to someone else's third party equipment, especially unnecessary equipment. And it especially should NOT be done at the expense of other customers. My bill better not be going up because TWC has to fix problems with Tivo. If tivo is so grat, why don't they fix their customer's boxes? Why not let tivo customers trade in outdated boxes for new ones? Oh wait, that's TWC that does that, since you don't have to OWN the equipment! :p:p:p:p

You've got to be kidding me! Let me explain something to you. Time Warner does not have an exclusive right to shove their pos crap down peoples throat and say if you don't like it too bad. People have a right to buy equipment that they want, and it's TW's responsibility to make sure that it works with that equipment.

In your world you just want to take all the crap that TW gives and say that works fine. Well, it doesn't work fine. There are people with cable ready HD televisions who can't use them for all the services TW offers unless they buy TW equipment. That is why the FCC fined TW for excessively using SDV.

Further and let me get this through your thick head one more time, either The S3 or the TiVo HD can run circles around that piece of crap TW offers. So I don't want to drive their Yugo, I want my BMW. You settle for whatever you like and one more thing, SDV is not working as successfully as they had hoped because of the lousy cable card technology that cablelabs came up with.

My S3 is not outdated, it simply wasn't designed for two way communciation. But now that we have the Tuner Resolver, that point is mute. And again let me remind you that was something that TiVo, the cable companies, cablelabs and manufacturers all worked on together, a rather remakable accomplishment imho.

I was talking about the S3, not the TiVo HD. When the S3 was designed the idea of two way cable card was not in the picture at that time.

That's mostly because of Tivo. The specs for two-way communications have been published since day one of CableCard technology. Every single CableCard ever made has been capable of communicating in two-way mode with an appropriately equipped host. It's the manufacturers of the sets and DVRs that have been late to come to the party.

Any news on how many cavs games will be in HD on FSN?

That's mostly because of Tivo. The specs for two-way communications have been published since day one of CableCard technology. Every single CableCard evcer made has been capable of communicating in two-way mode with an appropriately equipped host. It's the manufacturers of the sets and DVRs that have been late to come to the party.

It's awful hard to come to the party when you don't know what exactly to wear. The fact the the specs for two way communication existed did not mean that a decision to go with SDV had arrived. That decison was made after the sets and TiVo were already designed and in production.

But let's just say you're statement is correct. Even then the law says that cable manufacturers have to provide a way for other DVR and Televsion equipment to be able to access their content. That is why Hawaii got the fine, they didn't obey the law.

And as has already been shown the problems with these two way designed cable card machines have been tremendous. Which is why everyone is hopefull that Tru2Way Communication will work. Maybe.

It's awful hard to come to the party when you don't know what exactly to wear. The fact the the specs for two way communication existed did not mean that a decision to go with SDV had arrived. That decison was made after the sets and TiVo were already designed and in production.

But it's much easier to include a generic two-way tuner that complies with Cablelabs' cablecard spec and then simply push software updates for on demand, sdv, and other two-way services down the road.

Granted, this leaves any device but Tivo's in the dark, but you SHOULD get my point if it wasn't clear enough before.

Any news on how many cavs games will be in HD on FSN?

Hopefully more than last year. The non HD games were pretty much unwatchable, because of the sh**** SD quality and what seems to be over compression on TW.

I'm really not opposed to Tivo. I just think that if they are going to charge as much as they do for it, the box should at least be capable of doing something simple that the SA boxes can do without an extra attachment.

As for those cable ready HD sets, I'm opposed to that. Why should cable companies be forced to spend extra money making their system work with other people's generic, third party equipment? If they want to use ALL of TWC's services, LET THEM GET A BOX!!! Is it really that hard? If I were to call D* or E* and tell them I only want one box and the other TVs in my house for NO CHARGE, they'd hang up! Or if I tell D* or E* I don't want to pay for ANY of their hardware. I want D* to make THEIR system to work around MY equipment, plus I want digital channels in the clear without a STB, they'd laugh and hang up. Cable already gives their viewers way too many options. There should be three: Get a cable box, Get a TIVO, or go to hell. There is no reason why cableco should be punished with for using SDV or SDV usage should be limited for freeloaders with 'cable ready HDTVs'. 'Cable ready' is a load of s---. I remember the same thing in the 90s. I remember my parents making a point of mentioning the new TV bought in 1991 was 'cable ready'. That didn't last long. TWC began requiring boxes for most channels and premiums back then and it's only continued with digital. And I feel exactly the same about that in the clear nonsense. I wonder how many channels that could be SDV won't be because they have to stay (in a squeaky voice) "IN THE CLEAR"?

Cable give way too many choices. Remember, get a BOX, get a TIVO or SHUT UP!

Agreed. It's really retarded when Comcast, Time Warner, etal are in direct competition with the likes of Verison, AT&T, DirecTV, and Dish yet all those guys are given a free ride to run their network how they want because their customers MUST use a box provided by them. Yet CableCo's are kicked around by the FCC and must leave options open for customers that doesn't include their own set-tops which severely cuts down on improvements and upgrades they can make before the FCC steps in and gives a headshake and a fine.

I'll play devils advocate here and say the whole aspect of a cable system has been rife with confusion and mess from day one and not one side is really 100% to blame. But I think it's about time something is done to correct that. I await to see TW or Comcast either go full FTTH or Ethernet-over-coax and do full IP networks including VoIP over SIP and IPTV, both lending to customer owned and operated equipment that should never really have a problem with any upgrades or enhancements the cableco decides to make in the future.

I was talking about the S3, not the TiVo HD. When the S3 was designed the idea of two way cable card was not in the picture at that time. Now I don't know where you get your information from but the hardware was designed to work with cable cards, not two way communication. When the S3 was designed there SDV was not part of the process. It was simply made to decode digital television and HD, which it does quite well.

SDV may not have been in the picture at design time, but it certainly was right about it's release time which I'm sure caused more than a few people to think twice about picking one up.

From what I read about the Hawaii fines, it's not just the fact that TW started using SDV. The biggest complaint was that TW flipped the SDV switch on a large number of channels without any prior notice or explanation to their customers. When people found that many channels they were used to receiving were no longer there, they were told they needed to rent a box... That's what pissed off the FCC...

Thanks, FCC. Punish TWC for moving channels to the modern broadcast system :rolleyes:

Part of the reason why cable is so behind satellite and the new fiber services is they are held to a different standard. Cable has to follow all these BS regulations nobody else has to. Uverse and D* don't have to worry about third party equipment compatibility. They also don't have to worry about keeping any 'must carry' local channels in the clear on analog, which makes analog nonexistent for them. Not having analog TV frees up loads of bandwidth for more HD, better digital and high speed internet. That makes companies like the former Adelphia not give a crap about making updates(hence no digital simulcast for under 100, less HD). They're almost discouraged from making improvements because they have to constantly "protect the freeloader without a STB". Even the deserving Tivo people suffer as a result of cable's outdated technology.

The FCC and cable need to cut the apron strings. I'll repeat my new mantra once more. Get a box, get a Tivo or shut up! It's about time cable leaves all this "must carry", "in the clear" and "TV without a tuning device(STB or Tivo)" behind and embrace the new digital technology of the future.