SDV may not have been in the picture at design time, but it certainly was right about it's release time which I'm sure caused more than a few people to think twice about picking one up.

I knew about it. Matter of fact I think you told me about it.:)

I did take it into consideration, and I also took TiVo itself into consideration. TiVo is not one to leave their customers in the dark and I trusted that.

I didn't figure it would work out the way it did, I thought TiVo alone would come up with something.

Agreed. It's really retarded when Comcast, Time Warner, etal are in direct competition with the likes of Verison, AT&T, DirecTV, and Dish yet all those guys are given a free ride to run their network how they want because their customers MUST use a box provided by them. Yet CableCo's are kicked around by the FCC and must leave options open for customers that doesn't include their own set-tops which severely cuts down on improvements and upgrades they can make before the FCC steps in and gives a headshake and a fine.

Satellite service has always required a box since day 1. VIOS and AT&T don't use SDV.

I'll play devils advocate here and say the whole aspect of a cable system has been rife with confusion and mess from day one and not one side is really 100% to blame. But I think it's about time something is done to correct that. I await to see TW or Comcast either go full FTTH or Ethernet-over-coax and do full IP networks including VoIP over SIP and IPTV, both lending to customer owned and operated equipment that should never really have a problem with any upgrades or enhancements the cableco decides to make in the future.

It really has to do with the consumer having choices and not being forced to have only the service the cable company offers. You mention VoIP. I use Vonage. I would never want to use TW's, it cost more money and offers less service.

And I think when and if Tru2Way comes around that will resolve many of these issues.

Thanks, FCC. Punish TWC for moving channels to the modern broadcast system :rolleyes:

I agree. Thank you FCC. The fine should have been much higher.:p

Part of the reason why cable is so behind satellite and the new fiber services is they are held to a different standard. Cable has to follow all these BS regulations nobody else has to. Uverse and D* don't have to worry about third party equipment compatibility. They also don't have to worry about keeping any 'must carry' local channels in the clear on analog, which makes analog nonexistent for them. Not having analog TV frees up loads of bandwidth for more HD, better digital and high speed internet.

The problem here is that you are forced to use only the cable companies equipment. Other companies who want to develop DVR's should be allowed to develop them for competition.

The FCC and cable need to cut the apron strings. I'll repeat my new mantra once more. Get a box, get a Tivo or shut up! It's about time cable leaves all this "must carry", "in the clear" and "TV without a tuning device(STB or Tivo)" behind and embrace the new digital technology of the future.

Here you and I agree, analog has to go. But what you are saying is "piss on the poor people." I'm saying TW ought to give the digital set top boxes out and quit being so tight with their money. If they did that there wouldn't be a need for analog.

I also would like to see other companies offer DVR's besides TiVo. Competition is good.

I just read this over on the TiVo thread:

Speaking of multiple DVRs and the awful 8300, I have an 8300 in my great room, which I use as a backup to my S3. Lately I have been recording a lot of football and golf on the 8300 and have had my recollection refreshed as to why I hate the SARA software. I won't go into detail here but things that are easy with the TiVo software, such as the 30 second skip ahead feature and the ability to add more time to a recording that is ongoing, are impossible with the SARA software. To add insult to injury, when I checked out the recording I had made of the Saturday Ryder cup matches, I discovered that the first 2 hours had failed to record. The 8300 and SARA software truly, truly suck.


This is why I dumped the SA 8300, with SARA.

It really has to do with the consumer having choices and not being forced to have only the service the cable company offers. You mention VoIP. I use Vonage. I would never want to use TW's, it cost more money and offers less service.

You really missed my point completely on that. Right now TW's phone service has the major advantage of not going out over the internet and having to deal with possible congestion along the way. For me that is one reason I will never deal with 3rd part VoIP service unless I had a secondary 100% dedicated connection for it.

My point was that TW's service currently locks you into using their modem to use their phone service. While they could go all SIP and allow customer owned MTA's, their current choice of equipment that integrates into the Docsis platform does not make this easy. If they ever went all IP in the future, it would blow this whole thing wide open as they'd no longer have to rely on the limited operator-owned selection of Docsis equipment and have more off-the-shelf equipment to choose from. Same with IPTV in the near future. You'll soon see all the major audio/video manufacturers building IPTV boxes for the platform as it becomes more widely accepted and deployed and the customer would have THEIR choice, not the cableco's choice. And HSI would be tons easier. Just like FiOS is now, you'd have a simple 100Bt termination at the NID to go straight to your router (or switch if IPv6 ever gets going).

I know this is OT, but hope to get a little help.
I'm in the process of buying a new house, and want to streamline my incoming sevices for phone and internet.

I currently have SBC DSL Pro for $30 month. I don't really download a lot of stuff, so speed isn't a huge concern there. I do want a fast internet connection though. Thinking of getting Road Runner or Road Runner Lite? Thoughts?

I also have an SBC landline. I think it is outrageous to pay $30+ every month just for LOCAL service which is all I need. I've tried to talk the wife into dropping it, and just useing our cells, but she doesn't like that idea. Would Vonage be a good (cheap) solution?

Thanks for any help.:)

I just read this over on the TiVo thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat
Speaking of multiple DVRs and the awful 8300, I have an 8300 in my great room, which I use as a backup to my S3. Lately I have been recording a lot of football and golf on the 8300 and have had my recollection refreshed as to why I hate the SARA software. I won't go into detail here but things that are easy with the TiVo software, such as the 30 second skip ahead feature and the ability to add more time to a recording that is ongoing, are impossible with the SARA software. To add insult to injury, when I checked out the recording I had made of the Saturday Ryder cup matches, I discovered that the first 2 hours had failed to record. The 8300 and SARA software truly, truly suck.
This is why I dumped the SA 8300, with SARA.

There must be differences in SARA functionality offered by the cable companies. (Maybe the 8300HDC offers more functionality.) Not sure exactly what gwsat meant by "ongoing recording" but I have extended a recording that is in-progress, as well as adjusted "first-run only" recordings to start early and end late so I don't miss any of the show.

That being said, the 30-second skip button would be great. Also, searching for a show by name is painful.

I know this is OT, but hope to get a little help.
I'm in the process of buying a new house, and want to streamline my incoming sevices for phone and internet.

I currently have SBC DSL Pro for $30 month. I don't really download a lot of stuff, so speed isn't a huge concern there. I do want a fast internet connection though. Thinking of getting Road Runner or Road Runner Lite? Thoughts?

I also have an SBC landline. I think it is outrageous to pay $30+ every month just for LOCAL service which is all I need. I've tried to talk the wife into dropping it, and just useing our cells, but she doesn't like that idea. Would Vonage be a good (cheap) solution?

Thanks for any help.:)

Wow, I have SBC DSL for $19.99 a month. I'd never get TWC. In having SBC for about two years now, I've only had it 'go down' once or twice. In that same time, I've had TWC go out many times. No way I'd trust their "advanced fiber network":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: for my computer or phone as well.

KEEP THE LANDLINE!! Trust me. In this case, the old technology that has been around for over 100 years is better. In a power outage or when then internet goes down, that vonage crap won't work. Cell phone batteries only last so long as well, especially if you're using it alot. With that blackout five years ago and these snow events in the winter, I wouldn't trust it.

KEEP THE LANDLINE!! Trust me. In this case, the old technology that has been around for over 100 years is better. In a power outage or when then internet goes down, that vonage crap won't work. Cell phone batteries only last so long as well, especially if you're using it alot. With that blackout five years ago and these snow events in the winter, I wouldn't trust it.AMEN Brother!

About 14years ago we were hit with a "microburst" in Euclid. A microburst is like a tornado but the damage is spread out, not a narrow path of destruction. Long story short the electricity was out for 4 days. Guess what contiunued to work the entire time? Landlines forever, VOIP never. VOIP is like those old console TV/stereo combos that were popular in the 60's. WHen the TV died the remaining functions (radio and phono) would still work but due to the broken TV out goes the whole package.

I know this is OT, but hope to get a little help.
I'm in the process of buying a new house, and want to streamline my incoming sevices for phone and internet.

I currently have SBC DSL Pro for $30 month. I don't really download a lot of stuff, so speed isn't a huge concern there. I do want a fast internet connection though. Thinking of getting Road Runner or Road Runner Lite? Thoughts?

I also have an SBC landline. I think it is outrageous to pay $30+ every month just for LOCAL service which is all I need. I've tried to talk the wife into dropping it, and just useing our cells, but she doesn't like that idea. Would Vonage be a good (cheap) solution?

Thanks for any help.:)

I can understand peoples concern to have a fall back to a landline even though I don't have one myself. :p VOIP & cell are sufficient for me. I'll take my chances on the very rare, region wide power outages. And even then there will be many "....sorry, all circuits are busy...." messages during such events.

For $30 mo you must have some additional features on your line. I pay under $26 (taxes incl) for an SBC/ATT/Ameritech landline in Lyndhurst (offsite office worker). If I back out the charges for unpublished number and unlimited residential local it would be around $15 (taxes incl).

Bare with me.....I say this cuz I have the ultimate cheapskates home phone solution. :)

Get the bare minimum basic land line for $15 mo (if you really feel the need and to comfort the wife) for emergencies. Then get the MagicJack VOIP thingy for all of your calling needs, includes unlimited local and LD. $40 to buy it including first year service, $20 a year after that.

I use the MagicJack when traveling (which I do often) and it has worked flawlessly! Obviously this requires you have high speed internet and a computer up & running 24/7, but the power consumption of a 24/7 computer would be tiny compared to the additional $15 mo you would be saving plus any LD charges you may be paying currently.

If MajicJack goes belly-up, get unlimited local calling back on your landline. :)

AMEN Brother!

About 14years ago we were hit with a "microburst" in Euclid. A microburst is like a tornado but the damage is spread out, not a narrow path of destruction. Long story short the electricity was out for 4 days. Guess what contiunued to work the entire time? Landlines forever, VOIP never. VOIP is like those old console TV/stereo combos that were popular in the 60's. WHen the TV died the remaining functions (radio and phono) would still work but due to the broken TV out goes the whole package.

VoIP works just fine, and landlines will become obsolete. First, they arn't even necessary for alarm systems anymore. My alarm system uses a wireless network. You don't need them for satellite, DVR, and it's really expensive.

14 years ago? You gotta be kidding me. You want to compare what's out there now to 14 years ago.:rolleyes:

Vonage has never let me down. If there is a power outage, or internet outage it transfers to my wireless phone. Internet outages are very rare and I have a natural gas powered generator. So my power never really goes out

I'm prepared.

You really missed my point completely on that. Right now TW's phone service has the major advantage of not going out over the internet and having to deal with possible congestion along the way. For me that is one reason I will never deal with 3rd part VoIP service unless I had a secondary 100% dedicated connection for it.

My point was that TW's service currently locks you into using their modem to use their phone service. While they could go all SIP and allow customer owned MTA's, their current choice of equipment that integrates into the Docsis platform does not make this easy. If they ever went all IP in the future, it would blow this whole thing wide open as they'd no longer have to rely on the limited operator-owned selection of Docsis equipment and have more off-the-shelf equipment to choose from. Same with IPTV in the near future. You'll soon see all the major audio/video manufacturers building IPTV boxes for the platform as it becomes more widely accepted and deployed and the customer would have THEIR choice, not the cableco's choice. And HSI would be tons easier. Just like FiOS is now, you'd have a simple 100Bt termination at the NID to go straight to your router (or switch if IPv6 ever gets going).

I'll be honest, I don't understand 90% of what you are saying but just let me say this in regard to VoIP: Vonage works fantastic for me. It is so much cheaper, it doesn't make sense for me to purchase TW, I don't give a darn if it's a third party or not. TW wants to charge for frigging caller ID, ridiculous.

I'm staying with Vonage, it's he best.

There must be differences in SARA functionality offered by the cable companies. (Maybe the 8300HDC offers more functionality.) Not sure exactly what gwsat meant by "ongoing recording" but I have extended a recording that is in-progress, as well as adjusted "first-run only" recordings to start early and end late so I don't miss any of the show.

That being said, the 30-second skip button would be great. Also, searching for a show by name is painful.

See that's the big mystery here. Because people in the same area I live in say it works, and others say it doesn't. I've discussed it many, many times before I got the S3. I've gotten 3 different boxes.

And when I added the eSATA that's when I started getting partial recordings. So I returned the eSATA (approved by SA) and got another one and no, they didn't send me the same one back I did that deal where you give your credit card, they ship it and when you get it you ship yours back. Same problem.

And after being used to TiVo's interface and search abilities SARA paled so badly in comparison. Then there were the other non eSATA issues like just not bothering to record if a week went by without a show. And I had no idea that all that warped pictures and sound drop offs were not broadcast issues until I got my S3.

It's a cheaply made piece of crap and that's why TW uses it because most people do not realize what a piece of crap it is.

I've never used Passport and I only have nickdawg and a few others who seem to give that a thumbs up over SARA. But everyone says that Navigator sucks. So where is the "improved technology" if they distribute a pos to deliver it?

I have heard some good things about the moto box.

Then if it helps any, ignore the fact I said 'VoIP' in the original post and instead replace that with TW's phone service and forget about 3rd party VoIP providers altogether in terms of that post.

Like I said: Right now TW has you locked into using their modems for their phone service and nothing else. And this is largely due to the fact to the (still) fairly proprietary Docsis based VoIP protocol they are using combined with the fact that none of the modem manufacturers have released a EMTA embedded cable modem to the public at retail.

If TW or any other cable company for that matter ever went full IP, it'd be easier to take their phone service to either dual proprietary protocol and SIP or just straight SIP. In lamens terms, SIP is the open protocol used by every 3rd party provider out there who uses off the shelf MTA's. Meaning you would not only be able to use the service with your own phone adapters, but soft phones, ip phones, etc..

It's awful hard to come to the party when you don't know what exactly to wear. The fact the the specs for two way communication existed did not mean that a decision to go with SDV had arrived. That decison was made after the sets and TiVo were already designed and in production.

But let's just say you're statement is correct. Even then the law says that cable manufacturers have to provide a way for other DVR and Televsion equipment to be able to access their content. That is why Hawaii got the fine, they didn't obey the law.

And as has already been shown the problems with these two way designed cable card machines have been tremendous. Which is why everyone is hopefull that Tru2Way Communication will work. Maybe.

I didn't mention SDV in my statement, Hookbill - I was only speaking of CableCard technology. "Tru2Way" is just a new term for a spec that has existed for some time now. The term was coined to make it easier for a consumer to identify whether a CableCard-equipped host device contains an upstream modulator.

If TW or any other cable company for that matter ever went full IP, it'd be easier to take their phone service to either dual proprietary protocol and SIP or just straight SIP. In lamens terms, SIP is the open protocol used by every 3rd party provider out there who uses off the shelf MTA's. Meaning you would not only be able to use the service with your own phone adapters, but soft phones, ip phones, etc..

This is heading towards something I have seen discussed on another thread. The idea of having accessibilities to different devices through one server.

I think that's what you are saying.

Now I kind of like to think of myself as a semi high tech person, maybe not as smart as a lot of you guys but better then your average person walking down the street. I know this is true because when I start talking to people about HD, cable cards, TiVo, VoIP, I get the "deer in the headlights" look.

Now I'm having a bit of a problem with this type of thinking. Maybe I'm old fashion with this view point, a bit outdated, not so much as nickdawg and landline phones, but I don't want everything all hooked up to one or more device.

I don't know what a soft phone is exactly, is that like when you move your VoIP when you travel? I wouldn't do that anywy and don't care about it.

So essentially I'm giving you the "deer in the headlights" look, but I'm not embarrassed by it just honest.:)

I didn't mention SDV in my statement, Hookbill - I was only speaking of CableCard technology. "Tru2Way" is just a new term for a spec that has existed for some time now. The term was coined to make it easier for a consumer to identify whether a CableCard-equipped host device contains an upstream modulator.

I see. So all this "technology" that I read about which Sony is suppose to be the mastermind is not really new, it's the same old stuff with a new terminology?

Not from what I understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way

Tru2way™ is the brand name for interactive digital cable services delivered over the cable video network, for example interactive program guides, interactive ads, games, chat, web browsing, and t-commerce. The brand also appears as “<tru2way>” and is used to market cable services, applications, and devices that support the tru2way cable architecture. Tru2way is the successor, consumer-focused, name for technology known as OpenCable. Major cable operators have committed to deploy support for the tru2way platform in service areas covering more than 90 million U.S. homes by the end of 2008.

CableLabs, the industry’s research and development arm, licenses the brand to cable companies and cable programmers that deliver tru2way applications and services, as well as consumer electronics (CE) manufacturers that build devices that support such applications and services. Use of the mark on CE devices requires CableLabs certification testing for conformance to the tru2way specifications (also known as the OpenCable Host 2.1 Specifications). Tru2way includes a middleware technology that may be built into televisions, set-top boxes, and other devices. The technology enables cable companies and other interactive application developers to “write” applications once and see them run successfully on any device that supports the tru2way architecture. With tru2way technology, consumers can access interactive digital cable programming, including video-on-demand and pay-per-view content, without the need for a cable operator-supplied set-top box. The tru2way technology is capable of supporting all cable services now delivered to consumers via leased set top boxes, as well as future services written to the tru2way platform. Tru2way™ is a trademark of Cable Television Laboratories, Inc.

Sort of what you say but there is a different technology involved.

I don't know what a soft phone is exactly, is that like when you move your VoIP when you travel? I wouldn't do that anywy and don't care about it.

NP at all. A soft phone is basically a software based VoIP program much like Skype for example, but is designed to run on the open SIP protocol. A lot of VoIP providers that are open about their networks will allow you to use a soft phone, your own ATA/MTA (like the phone adapter you have for Vonage), or a straight IP phone (Corporate geared Cisco desk phones with ethernet connectivity are a good example. There are also a handful of wifi 'cellphones' with just SIP connectivity. I know Dlink offers one in an affordable price range).

And it doesn't have to be when you travel. All this means is it'd give you more flexibility even inside your home. You can have an ATA tied to the house landline wiring, a wifi SIP hardphone as an available cordless and take it outside your home wifi range say to a coffee shop or friends house if you want, or even just have a PC or two running a soft phone with a bluetooth headset. All would be tied to the same number (or multiple numbers if you desire) and all would work simultaneously and ring at the same time.

This is just one possibility I'm talking about. Right now TW and other cable providers lock you into the classic landline wiring scenario with their embedded ATA modems with no open access to the protocol. Going IP would add the possibility of them losing said proprietary protocol and going open with SIP and allowing the aforementioned possibilities.

I see. So all this "technology" that I read about which Sony is suppose to be the mastermind is not really new, it's the same old stuff with a new terminology?

Not from what I understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way

*snip*

Also, just as a side note to this: Tru2Way is basically a close cousin of OCAP meaning Tru2way capable sets would give an out for the likes of Time Warner to dump Navigator/Mystro on your set for that supposed 'on demand and pay-per-view' access. Why do you think OCAP is designed completely in Java? Cross-platform capability. The software won't care what cpu the tv's running, Java will make it work.

Thanks for the replies regarding my phone service guys. If there's one thing this thread provides, it's ALL different opinions.
What about the Road Runner service? If I don't download a lot of stuff, will RR Lite be a good choice for me? I still want to surf the net a fast speeds though.
I also heard that if you get RR, it comes with free cable :p. No flames please, that's just what I heard :D.

Not to flame, but that sounds like a load of s---!

I don't know man. I'm feelin some singed hairs on that one... :D:D:D

I don't know man. I'm feelin some singed hairs on that one... :D:D:D

Naw, I don't think nickdawg was giving you a flame, just an opinion. Time Warner and Free are never exactly true. There is always an "if" or "with" or something.

..............Like I said: Right now TW has you locked into using their modems for their phone service and nothing else. And this is largely due to the fact to the (still) fairly proprietary Docsis based VoIP protocol they are using combined with the fact that none of the modem manufacturers have released a EMTA embedded cable modem to the public at retail...............

Remember the old days when we had to "rent" our phones from Ohio Bell?? :eek:

I know this has been covered over & over.....but dammit, New York execs should be made aware that WOIO not having a pot to _iss in still can't properly transmit a signal. They've been clipping in/out for over 1.5 weeks in Lorain. I recieve 19.1 both OTA & thru D* and BOTH have bothersome dropouts. Anybody with pull at CBS listening (or reading) ???
OK....back to the TW turtling board.....;)

Again tonight I believe CFPL 10 is diminishing my 19 signal.... but 19 analog is not all that hot tonight either.

I am currently uning the Zenith DTT901 converter box which has a nice feature that allows me to scan all RF frequencies, & see if any signal is coming in on the real RF channel.

I am regularly picking up heartbeats indicating signal (but no picture) on the following:

14 (on occasion)
17 (Very strong considering about 30-40%) I'm wondering if this will interfere with WKYC after the switch)
16 (on occasion)
26 (on occasion)
39 about 30-40%
44 (on occasion)
45 (on occasion)
50 30-40%
51 30-40%
57 about 25-35%

No, nothing at all on 41 out of Y-town, I'm a few miles from the lake in Lake County likely below the ridge.

Will an inside amp at the set help?

Tonight I'm getting about 25-50% on 19 & am getting a pixilated picture.

I know this has been covered over & over.....but dammit, New York execs should be made aware that WOIO not having a pot to _iss in still can't properly transmit a signal. They've been clipping in/out for over 1.5 weeks in Lorain. I recieve 19.1 both OTA & thru D* and BOTH have bothersome dropouts. Anybody with pull at CBS listening (or reading) ???
OK....back to the TW turtling board.....;)

I had the same thing on WOIO through TWC. Was gonna say something about this yesterday. It was so bad during the Big Bang Theory I ended saying fsck WOIO HD and watched WOIO analog. Also recorded Worst Week, 2.5 Men and CSI: Miami on analog as well.

New York should hear about this joke channel. They can't even broadcast a decent digital channel plus they move network programming around. When that big tennis event was on CBS a few weeks ago, WOIO decided to dump it to SD on WOIO DT 2 so they could show their 'newscast':rolleyes:.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D:D:D:D:D

Sorry, that's what happens when I say WOIO and newscast in the same sentence!

With our current dark, grave economic situation I try to find a positive side. If things get a little worse maybe WOIO's owner will have to sell or even better shut down WOIO. Then TWC would be forced to pick up the far superior WKBN DT for us viewers here.:D:D:D:D:D

17 (Very strong considering about 30-40%) I'm wondering if this will interfere with WKYC after the switch)

This is WDLI. To my understanding, they will vacate this channel when the switch happens, and WKYC will take it over for their digital signal.

New York should hear about this joke channel. They can't even broadcast a decent digital channel plus they move network programming around. When that big tennis event was on CBS a few weeks ago, WOIO decided to dump it to SD on WOIO DT 2 so they could show their 'newscast':rolleyes:.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D:D:D:D:D

Sorry, that's what happens when I say WOIO and newscast in the same sentence!

With our current dark, grave economic situation I try to find a positive side. If things get a little worse maybe WOIO's owner will have to sell or even better shut down WOIO. Then TWC would be forced to pick up the far superior WKBN DT for us viewers here.:D:D:D:D:D

nickdawg, do you seriously think anybody in New York, or L.A. gives a flying f### about Cleveland?

Let me tell you that first they don't like us. Why? Let's just say we piss them off with politics. Second they think of us as a bunch of mindless working class people with a city that is do deteriorated that no one owns an HDTV anyway so who cares.

You can probably thank Columbus and Cincinnati for the political thing but we live in the same state.

Anyway they are locked into a contract with WOIO. And are we sure this is just a local issue? Has anybody checked the thread for televisions show discussions?

Edit: I see you do go over there but they talk about the shows more then about the quality of broadcast. I started a thread, let's see if we get a response.

The OTA dropouts on 19.1 with 98 signal strength lead me to believe that something is interferring with the signal. Occasionally Toledo OTA 11 digital will interfere with 17 digital as I recall. (When rescanning the digital channels 11 came up and overrided 17 for a short period of time until the probagation changed back to normal)
JJK

The OTA dropouts on 19.1 with 98 signal strength lead me to believe that something is interferring with the signal. Occasionally Toledo OTA 11 digital will interfere with 17 digital as I recall. (When rescanning the digital channels 11 came up and overrided 17 for a short period of time until the probagation changed back to normal)
JJK

I thought 98 OTA was fantastic.:confused:

I normally have no problems with any of the local OTA digital stations. I'm only six miles south of the antenna farm in Parma and have an antenna on my roof.

I watched CBS (19-1) last night because the new season had started. I definitely had breakups of 1-2 seconds several times during each hour of programming.

The OTA dropouts on 19.1 with 98 signal strength lead me to believe that something is interferring with the signal. Occasionally Toledo OTA 11 digital will interfere with 17 digital as I recall. (When rescanning the digital channels 11 came up and overrided 17 for a short period of time until the probagation changed back to normal)
JJK

Is Toledo analog 11 on Digital 17?

Could be a problem for WKYC if WTOL doesn't relocate after the switch.

This is WDLI. To my understanding, they will vacate this channel when the switch happens, and WKYC will take it over for their digital signal.

I cannot pick up Analog 17, however it should not be giving me any signal on my converter box. I'm sure the signal (but no picture) I'm recieving on 39 digital is WDLI, but who is broadcasting on Digital 17?

Edit... found the answer here..

http://www.noard.com/tvchannels.htm

Now I read somewhere that WDLI 39 will be moving their transmitter & increasing the signal, along with 23 out of Akron, after the switchover, this true?

So from what I understand from my neighbors & aquaintences that TWC no longer offers HD with a direct plug in to the set anymore for the local channels & forces you to rent a box?

Why bother to put Cable ready or QAM tuners in the sets?

I had the same thing on WOIO through TWC. Was gonna say something about this yesterday. It was so bad during the Big Bang Theory I ended saying fsck WOIO HD and watched WOIO analog. Also recorded Worst Week, 2.5 Men and CSI: Miami on analog as well.

New York should hear about this joke channel. They can't even broadcast a decent digital channel plus they move network programming around. When that big tennis event was on CBS a few weeks ago, WOIO decided to dump it to SD on WOIO DT 2 so they could show their 'newscast':rolleyes:.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D:D:D:D:D

Sorry, that's what happens when I say WOIO and newscast in the same sentence!

With our current dark, grave economic situation I try to find a positive side. If things get a little worse maybe WOIO's owner will have to sell or even better shut down WOIO. Then TWC would be forced to pick up the far superior WKBN DT for us viewers here.:D:D:D:D:D


I don't get it?? arent you paying for cable to get better reception than OTA, & a direct feed from the station?

You are paying top dollar for this aggravation?

I wish I could get WKBN up here.

So from what I understand from my neighbors & aquaintences that TWC no longer offers HD with a direct plug in to the set anymore for the local channels & forces you to rent a box?

Why bother to put Cable ready or QAM tuners in the sets?

Incorrect. TWC is still offering local HDs in QAM format in the clear.

Well, the TW SDV announcement letter showed up in the mail today... It says that on 10/20/08, several (90+) "existing, lessed-viewed channels" will be switched to SDV. A big chunk of junk channels, most of the foreign-language ones, a bunch that show up as analog anyway, and a few that bug me. (The Encore set and the HBO-West set, in particular. These irk me since I pay extra for those packages.)

It does say they expect to be able to offer tuning adapters alter this year for Tivos, and states "It is currently believed that the Tuning Adapter will be provided at no additional charge."

If the SDV channel list they included is any hint as to what types of channels will be moved to SDV, I'm not too upset.... Gotta keep my MythTV tuners running...

Well, the TW SDV announcement letter showed up in the mail today... It says that on 10/20/08, several (90+) "existing, lessed-viewed channels" will be switched to SDV. A big chunk of junk channels, most of the foreign-language ones, a bunch that show up as analog anyway, and a few that bug me. (The Encore set and the HBO-West set, in particular. These irk me since I pay extra for those packages.)

It does say they expect to be able to offer tuning adapters alter this year for Tivos, and states "It is currently believed that the Tuning Adapter will be provided at no additional charge."

If the SDV channel list they included is any hint as to what types of channels will be moved to SDV, I'm not too upset.... Gotta keep my MythTV tuners running...

Did you get the letter at Cuyahoga Falls? I'm around that area in Summit County as well and I have yet to see a letter. The more I thought about it I realized something. Doesn't Ben Music have a Tivo S3? I know mnowlin does, so I figure they are only sending the letters to Tivo/cable card users since they will be affected. I guess TWC doesn't find it important to tell anyone else that they are upgrading to SDV, sice those of us with cableco issued software will not see any changes(unless something doesn't work right). I expect there won't be any noticeable change on 10/20, except that the SDV screens will be active in diagnostics.

As for the premium channels, I hope they put Showtime on SDV. I once read somewhere that you can tune premium channels you don't get if someone else on the same grid tunes to that channel's stream. That could be fun.

Did the letter say anything about HD? Can we expect any new HD channels anytime soon?

Did you get the letter at Cuyahoga Falls? I'm around that area in Summit County as well and I have yet to see a letter. The more I thought about it I realized something. Doesn't Ben Music have a Tivo S3? I know mnowlin does, so I figure they are only sending the letters to Tivo/cable card users since they will be affected. I guess TWC doesn't find it important to tell anyone else that they are upgrading to SDV, sice those of us with cableco issued software will not see any changes(unless something doesn't work right). I expect there won't be any noticeable change on 10/20, except that the SDV screens will be active in diagnostics.

As for the premium channels, I hope they put Showtime on SDV. I once read somewhere that you can tune premium channels you don't get if someone else on the same grid tunes to that channel's stream. That could be fun.

Did the letter say anything about HD? Can we expect any new HD channels anytime soon?


I think you may be right nickdawg. TW may be sending those letters out only to TiVo people and not everyone. I haven't got one yet but I think that the SARA issue may delay any changes around here, although the fact that a person in ex Comcast area got one is even more surprising.

Can you imagine if that letter went out to everybody? Sure we all know what SDV is but John Q Public sure doesn't, ask anybody where you work and watch the deer in the headlights pop out.;)

One other thing dawg - I know how excited you get and how you're mind starts running wild with possibilities. Please keep in mind two things. TW never keeps a promise on time. Never. And also if you take a look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14706513#post14706513) you will notice that many of these channels that mnowlin mentions are on that same list as in Austin, TX. Also notice the HD additional channels. Yes, there are some more but not anything like 50 or even 25.

Also keep in mind about how tight TW is with money. They give the cheapest equipment and they "negotiate" forever before signing anything. The part about the channel resolver "in the near future" could mean to them around Easter. Who knows?:D

But I do know you a bit so once again, calm down, have a beer, and let things happen. Don't let your imagination run wild, they will not catch D* in two months. Or 6. Maybe never.;)

Someone used to post the emails of the chief engineers at the Cleveland TV stations. If that person is till around perhaps he can post them and we can try to get some feedback from WOIO.
This problem has been going on for at least 6 weeks. They got to know about it although it does seem they do not monitor their output ala Browns game staying in SD for first 20 minutes of broadcast and these constant breakups and dropouts of their HD feed.

Someone used to post the emails of the chief engineers at the Cleveland TV stations. If that person is till around perhaps he can post them and we can try to get some feedback from WOIO.
This problem has been going on for at least 6 weeks. They got to know about it although it does seem they do not monitor their output ala Browns game staying in SD for first 20 minutes of broadcast and these constant breakups and dropouts of their HD feed.

That would be TV21CHEIF and he works for channel 21 out of Youngstown, an NBC affiliate. He hasn't posted here for a while, he does post in the Youngstown thread. Don't think he'd be much help to you, he's not really in any position to tell anyone else how to run their stations.

WOIO Bob Maupin, Chief Engineer. I think his email is Bmaupin@woio.com. I know the newestaffs emails use first initial and last name so I would think his would do the same.
Lets all ask him politely about the problems with the HD signal. I am sure he does not want to blow this stuff off.

I think you may be right nickdawg. TW may be sending those letters out only to TiVo people and not everyone. I haven't got one yet but I think that the SARA issue may delay any changes around here, although the fact that a person in ex Comcast area got one is even more surprising.

Can you imagine if that letter went out to everybody? Sure we all know what SDV is but John Q Public sure doesn't, ask anybody where you work and watch the deer in the headlights pop out.;)

One other thing dawg - I know how excited you get and how you're mind starts running wild with possibilities. Please keep in mind two things. TW never keeps a promise on time. Never. And also if you take a look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14706513#post14706513) you will notice that many of these channels that mnowlin mentions are on that same list as in Austin, TX. Also notice the HD additional channels. Yes, there are some more but not anything like 50 or even 25.

Also keep in mind about how tight TW is with money. They give the cheapest equipment and they "negotiate" forever before signing anything. The part about the channel resolver "in the near future" could mean to them around Easter. Who knows?:D

But I do know you a bit so once again, calm down, have a beer, and let things happen. Don't let your imagination run wild, they will not catch D* in two months. Or 6. Maybe never.;)

TW sent these letters to everybody that uses cablecards, not just Tivo owners. I have to turn in my cablecard and pay an additional $5 a month for a HD box.
I hope they use the additional bandwidth for more HD channels and not for their telephone and internet service.

Now I read somewhere that WDLI 39 will be moving their transmitter & increasing the signal, along with 23 out of Akron, after the switchover, this true?

WDLI-DT is transmitting from Akron already, just down the hill from WVPX-DT. I thought I read somewhere that they were hoping to move from DT 39 to DT 49 after WEAO abandons analog 49 at the transition...I believe with a power increase, though they haven't filed a CP for it yet that I can see.

The important part here is that WDLI will abandon their own analog 17 no matter which digital channel they end up using, even the current 39. That clears the way for WKYC-DT to light up on 17, and fix all of their low-VHF problems now on DT 2...

WDLI-DT is transmitting from Akron already, just down the hill from WVPX-DT. I thought I read somewhere that they were hoping to move from DT 39 to DT 49 after WEAO abandons analog 49 at the transition...I believe with a power increase, though they haven't filed a CP for it yet that I can see.

The important part here is that WDLI will abandon their own analog 17 no matter which digital channel they end up using, even the current 39. That clears the way for WKYC-DT to light up on 17, and fix all of their low-VHF problems now on DT 2... What???????:confused::confused:

What???????:confused::confused:

What part did you want to know about?

He asked if WDLI-DT (the digital side of Channel 17) out of Canton was moving and increasing power. I replied that WDLI has already moved its digital transmitter to Akron.

WDLI-DT is transmitting from Akron already, just down the hill from WVPX-DT. I thought I read somewhere that they were hoping to move from DT 39 to DT 49 after WEAO abandons analog 49 at the transition...I believe with a power increase, though they haven't filed a CP for it yet that I can see.

The important part here is that WDLI will abandon their own analog 17 no matter which digital channel they end up using, even the current 39. That clears the way for WKYC-DT to light up on 17, and fix all of their low-VHF problems now on DT 2...

Thank you for your reply, I read about a possible power increase on 39 & a move but this information may had been dated & it already happened... I am consistantly getting a signal of around 30% on 39 DTV but still haven't captured the signal. I'm curious now about 23's future coverage, I get a 23 analog here with some grain most of the time, likely I didn't think I'd be able to get the digital signal from them. I picked up 50-1 & 50-2 last night for about 15 minutes, too bad I'm going to have to wait for WVIZ to get fully online for a PBS affiliate here. :(

I was also picking up 17-1 & -2 out of Toledo (11's DTV) this evening (pixelated at times), think this will interfere with WKYC going to 17?

I NEVER have trouble with 5 here (15-1) or 61 (34-1)

What part did you want to know about?

He asked if WDLI-DT (the digital side of Channel 17) out of Canton was moving and increasing power. I replied that WDLI has already moved its digital transmitter to Akron.

Noticed the DTV 39 ID's themself as Akron/Cleveland instead of Canton, I could only hope for the same coverage as 55 here. 49-1 would be nice to have too, no plans for increase of power/coverage on that I suppose?

Thank you for your reply, I read about a possible power increase on 39 & a move but this information may had been dated & it already happened... I am consistantly getting a signal of around 30% on 39 DTV but still haven't captured the signal. I'm curious now about 23's future coverage, I get a 23 analog here with some grain most of the time, likely I didn't think I'd be able to get the digital signal from them. I picked up 50-1 & 50-2 last night for about 15 minutes, too bad I'm going to have to wait for WVIZ to get fully online for a PBS affiliate here. :(

The FCC is set to rule on WDLI-DT's request to relocate from 39 to 49 sometime in the next month, I'd guess.

I was also picking up 17-1 & -2 out of Toledo (11's DTV) this evening (pixelated at times), think this will interfere with WKYC going to 17?

Nope. After next year, WTOL-DT will be reverting to channel 11 for its digital operation.

Noticed the DTV 39 ID's themself as Akron/Cleveland instead of Canton, I could only hope for the same coverage as 55 here. 49-1 would be nice to have too, no plans for increase of power/coverage on that I suppose?

They want to boost from 180 to 250 kW, but that's probably not going to do much for you.

- Trip

sooo.. you are about 5-600 miles away from us. WTH??????????:confused::rolleyes:

Noticed the DTV 39 ID's themself as Akron/Cleveland instead of Canton, I could only hope for the same coverage as 55 here. 49-1 would be nice to have too, no plans for increase of power/coverage on that I suppose?

49-1 will still be on 50. As Trip noted, they have a small maximization application in the hopper.

Where are you in regards to Copley Township, where both WEAO and WVPX are? There's some sort of terrain that supposedly gives those stations fits in parts of Cuyahoga County, I wanna say near Richfield. Others here would know.

WDLI is still licensed to Canton, even with the DT physically being located up in the Akron area. 55, for that matter, is still licensed to Akron, despite both its analog and digital sticks being in the Parma antenna farm.

The license city doesn't mean much (WUAB, also in the Parma antenna farm, is licensed to Lorain, and always has been, long before digital TV). The TV sticks are powerful enough to "serve" those license cities even if the antenna is nowhere near the city.

I'm curious now about 23's future coverage, I get a 23 analog here with some grain most of the time, likely I didn't think I'd be able to get the digital signal from them.

Again, we're only gonna be able to help you if you tell us where you are in the area. (No, not your street address, just your city...)

23 is supposed to maximize to 1000KW after the transition. See above about the physical terrain problems between parts of Cuyahoga County and the Akron TV/FM antenna farm (Copley)...my guess is you'd have a shot at it, though. And that's without knowing where you are in the area.

What part did you want to know about?

He asked if WDLI-DT (the digital side of Channel 17) out of Canton was moving and increasing power. I replied that WDLI has already moved its digital transmitter to Akron. Who gives a @$#$?????:) jk. enjoy your posts.

sooo.. you are about 5-600 miles away from us. WTH??????????:confused::rolleyes:

Trip knows what he's talking about, whether he's in Virginia or here in Ohio.

Click on the link in his signature - he built that (Rabbitears) from scratch.

Who gives a @$#$?????:) jk. enjoy your posts.

Are you here for information, help or discussion about digital TV in Northeast Ohio? Or are you here just to dump on people?

The latter will get you placed on ignore rather quickly, and if it continues, you'll get a not so friendly note from the moderators.

Relax, enjoy, and feel free to ask questions or share knowledge! That's what this thread is here for.

Are you here for information, help or discussion about digital TV in Northeast Ohio? Or are you here just to dump on people?

The latter will get you placed on ignore rather quickly, and if it continues, you'll get a not so friendly note from the moderators.

Relax, enjoy, and feel free to ask questions or share knowledge! That's what this thread is here for. ok

Are you here for information, help or discussion about digital TV in Northeast Ohio? Or are you here just to dump on people?

The latter will get you placed on ignore rather quickly, and if it continues, you'll get a not so friendly note from the moderators.

Relax, enjoy, and feel free to ask questions or share knowledge! That's what this thread is here for.

+1

Way to go Inundated.;)

Trip knows what he's talking about, whether he's in Virginia or here in Ohio.

Click on the link in his signature - he built that (Rabbitears) from scratch.

Thanks for the kind words. =)

I post all over the place, trying to help out wherever I can, even if I've never physically been somewhere. I follow FCC proceedings very closely and I know that a lot of people can't figure out the FCC site (it's a confusing beast) so I try to make it easier and share that knowledge.

In all fairness, I didn't code the site. I just collected all the data and loaded it in and keep it updated every day. :D I only wish I knew enough about coding to have built it myself.

(Actually, I'm working on a little side project relating to the site and want to use it to teach myself to code with some PHP and JavaScript, so who knows, maybe some of it will end up self-coded.)

- Trip

Anybody else seeing funny picture on WKYC? During The Office the picture briefly froze then pixelated and the sound was funny at some parts. Did not happen during Earl and ER has been OK so far.

Anybody else seeing funny picture on WKYC? During The Office the picture briefly froze then pixelated and the sound was funny at some parts. Did not happen during Earl and ER has been OK so far.

I don't watch those shows but I notice that you post frequently about live telecasts. Just wondering, what do you use your DVR for? I'm always at least a week behind.

Do you use it for keeping things that you don't want to get rid of? Perhaps you don't use it that often?

Just curious. And I'm not trying to start a battle here really but for someone who was so proud of the SA 8300 Passport is it possible that Navigator is keeping you from using it? Or were you never that big on DVR? If you only have the 20 hour recording space I can understand why.

The FCC is set to rule on WDLI-DT's request to relocate from 39 to 49 sometime in the next month, I'd guess.



Nope. After next year, WTOL-DT will be reverting to channel 11 for its digital operation.



They want to boost from 180 to 250 kW, but that's probably not going to do much for you.

- Trip

I was finally able to lock in 39-3 through 7 last evening, I'm just missing this with a pretty consistant signal of 30% sometimes peaking a bit higher, last night I was catching the signal at 50%..... so the boost likely won't help?

49-1 will still be on 50. As Trip noted, they have a small maximization application in the hopper.

Where are you in regards to Copley Township, where both WEAO and WVPX are? There's some sort of terrain that supposedly gives those stations fits in parts of Cuyahoga County, I wanna say near Richfield. Others here would know.

WDLI is still licensed to Canton, even with the DT physically being located up in the Akron area. 55, for that matter, is still licensed to Akron, despite both its analog and digital sticks being in the Parma antenna farm.

The license city doesn't mean much (WUAB, also in the Parma antenna farm, is licensed to Lorain, and always has been, long before digital TV). The TV sticks are powerful enough to "serve" those license cities even if the antenna is nowhere near the city..
WDLI's translator on 51 is licensed to Kirtland, yet the translator is actually in Newbury, as goes with WVIZ's translator on 63 licensed to Eastlake, yet the transmitter is in Thompson, the signal never makes it to Eastlake let alone Mentor. :(

Again, we're only gonna be able to help you if you tell us where you are in the area. (No, not your street address, just your city...)

23 is supposed to maximize to 1000KW after the transition. See above about the physical terrain problems between parts of Cuyahoga County and the Akron TV/FM antenna farm (Copley)...my guess is you'd have a shot at it, though. And that's without knowing where you are in the area.

In central Lake county (Mentor) a few miles from the lake, I'm imagining just beyond the ridge this seems to be a RF black hole around here, though 23 analog is very watchable now with a little grain most of the time..... I never could get 23 here untill a few years back, they most have changed something.

Again,. I seem to be just missing Digital 50 & 39, though last night was an exception, :) atmospheric conditions I imagine, 50-1 (49) was perfect 60-70% signal with no pixelation.

Would a small amp at the set help? We are going to lose PBS up here. (along with CBS at times but that's another story we all know)

WDLI's translator on 51 is licensed to Kirtland, yet the translator is actually in Newbury, as goes with WVIZ's translator on 63 licensed to Eastlake, yet the transmitter is in Thompson, the signal never makes it to Eastlake let alone Mentor. :(


There are different license rules for translators. They don't actually have to serve their cities of license for some reason. (Same with FM radio translators!)

Full-power stations, like WVPX and WBNX, do have to put a certain amount of signal over the COL (Akron). LPTV/translators do not.


In central Lake county (Mentor) a few miles from the lake, I'm imagining just beyond the ridge this seems to be a RF black hole around here, though 23 analog is very watchable now with a little grain most of the time..... I never could get 23 here untill a few years back, they most have changed something.


Yep, they did...23 maximized to full analog UHF power (5000KW) shortly after the PAX folks took over.

Aside from the fact that 23's owners before were just trying to serve Akron/Canton, I've heard rumblings that they could have lost their then-ABC affiliation if they increased power, since WEWS/5 would complain to the network.

With a new owner (after interim owner ValueVision sold to PAX), ABC was out of the picture, and the power increase was clear.

Would a small amp at the set help? We are going to lose PBS up here. (along with CBS at times but that's another story we all know)

You don't think you'll get WVIZ-DT's maximized new stick on the WKYC tower after the transition?

*

I was finally able to lock in 39-3 through 7 last evening, I'm just missing this with a pretty consistant signal of 30% sometimes peaking a bit higher, last night I was catching the signal at 50%..... so the boost likely won't help?

Yeah, 180 kW to 250 kW isn't even a 2 dB boost in signal.

Now WDLI-DT, they want to go from 200 kW on channel 39, to 900 kW on channel 49. That's more than 6 dB of additional signal, and that might just do it for you.

Again,. I seem to be just missing Digital 50 & 39, though last night was an exception, :) atmospheric conditions I imagine, 50-1 (49) was perfect 60-70% signal with no pixelation.

Would a small amp at the set help? We are going to lose PBS up here. (along with CBS at times but that's another story we all know)

A small amp could help, I suppose it couldn't hurt to try if you bought one somewhere that it could be easily returned. You just have to be concerned with multipath at that point, so if you see ghosts in your analog signal, you'll want to be careful about amplifying the signal too much.

- Trip

Trip knows what he's talking about, whether he's in Virginia or here in Ohio.

Click on the link in his signature - he built that (Rabbitears) from scratch.
19 years old??? I have pimples on my ars older than Trip. No offense Trip.

19 years old???

Yeah, he's 19. He's been on these forums for a good 4 years or so, believe it or not!

He's smart, a quick study and has learned a lot about all this stuff over the years.

And he acts older than some folks much older than he is.

Now, are you going to behave? :)

I guess that means someone like smarty-pants must be 12. ;) :D

19 years old??? I have pimples on my ars older than Trip. No offense Trip.

Haha. =) None taken. Though I'll be 20 a month from today, will I still be younger than them then? :p

Yeah, he's 19. He's been on these forums for a good 4 years or so, believe it or not!

He's smart, a quick study and has learned a lot about all this stuff over the years.

And he acts older than some folks much older than he is.

Now, are you going to behave? :)

Heh, thanks for the kind words! I'm blushing! :D

I'm presently at the University of Virginia studying to become (what else?) a broadcast engineer. TV broadcasting and reception has been the one interest I've held on to since I can remember.

It's like my dad always said, if you're going to do something, be the best at it. Thus, I've done as much as I can to be the best I can be at my chosen field, starting a website dedicated to it and helping others as much as I can. Now if only I didn't have to go through all this formal schooling. :D

- Trip

Haha. =)



Heh, thanks for the kind words! I'm blushing! :D

I'm presently at the University of Virginia studying to become (what else?) a broadcast engineer. TV broadcasting and reception has been the one interest I've held on to since I can remember.

It's like my dad always said, if you're going to do something, be the best at it. Thus, I've done as much as I can to be the best I can be at my chosen field, starting a website dedicated to it and helping others as much as I can. Now if only I didn't have to go through all this formal schooling. :D

- Trip

Unbelievable. A 19 year old who listens to his dad! You're wise way beyond your years, young man. Very rare to find someone like that.

Now there has got to be a "but" here. You wear your hair in a mohawk and you got your nipples and nose pierced? Your hair is purple? Your pubic hair is purple?

Please tell me what the defect is. Because if there isn't you may become somebody who does something good with their life.;)

Unbelievable. A 19 year old who listens to his dad! You're wise way beyond your years, young man. Very rare to find someone like that.

I prefer to learn from the mistakes and knowledge of others rather than learn the hard way. Another thing my dad taught me that I adhere to every day--"if you don't know what you're talking about, close your mouth and open your ears." Thus, I am as I am.

Now there has got to be a "but" here. You wear your hair in a mohawk and you got your nipples and nose pierced? Your hair is purple? Your pubic hair is purple?

Haha, no, no, and no.

http://www.rabbitears.info/nbc29/215.jpg

From left to right, Mike from the Amateur Radio club (I'm hoping to get licensed this year), then myself in the cap, and two roommates, Rohan and Josh.

Please tell me what the defect is. Because if there isn't you may become somebody who does something good with their life.;)

I'm a horrible procrastinator unless I enjoy what it is I have to do (namely, at this point, my website). Since it doesn't impact my hobbies, I think I should be alright. ;)

- Trip

I guess that means someone like smarty-pants must be 12. ;) :D

Nick, your constant rambling and grumbling about this and that translates to you being the equivilant of a drunken bi-polar hyper-active 9 yr old. Someone like you insinuating that someone else may be immature? An oxymoron indeed. ...emphasis on the moron part for sure. :cool:

Well, I tried but I just couldn't resist. The Los Angeles Dodgers with Manny Ramirerz ( 36 runs 72 hits 14 doubles 17 home runs 53 RBI's Slugging .749 batting avg.393 ) and Casey Blake (52 hits 12 doubles 1 triple 10 home runs 23 RBI's .313 On Base .466 Slugging .252 batting average) will be on TBS in HD, and how sweet it would be if the Dodgers meet the Red Sox in the World Series! All in HD, of course!:D

Those stats are strictly with the Dodgers. And they now call L.A. Mannywood!

Of course the Dodgers are loaded with stars you guys probably never heard of like Andre Eithier and my favorite player Matt Kemp. You probably heard of Russell Martin. And we have a great first baseman, James Loney. Well, you'll be seeing them all the way this year, and all in HD!

Might as well watch the playoffs. You're certainly not going to waste anymore time with the Brownies, are you?:D:D:D

Yeah, I don't expect a response but once again we couldn't have done it without you. Thank you Cleveland! And it seems like you're getting some more players ready for us in a few years. We do appreciate it.

Nick, your constant rambling and grumbling about this and that translates to you being the equivilant of a drunken bi-polar hyper-active 9 yr old. Someone like you insinuating that someone else may be immature? An oxymoron indeed. ...emphasis on the moron part for sure. :cool:

ROFLOL!!!!! What a comeback!:D

Well, I tried but I just couldn't resist. The Los Angeles Dodgers with Manny Ramirerz ( 36 runs 72 hits 14 doubles 17 home runs 53 RBI's Slugging .749 batting avg.393 ) and Casey Blake (52 hits 12 doubles 1 triple 10 home runs 23 RBI's .313 On Base .466 Slugging .252 batting average) will be on TBS in HD, and how sweet it would be if the Dodgers meet the Red Sox in the World Series! All in HD, of course!:D

Those stats are strictly with the Dodgers. And they now call L.A. Mannywood!

Of course the Dodgers are loaded with stars you guys probably never heard of like Andre Eithier and my favorite player Matt Kemp. You probably heard of Russell Martin. And we have a great first baseman, James Loney. Well, you'll be seeing them all the way this year, and all in HD!

Might as well watch the playoffs. You're certainly not going to waste anymore time with the Brownies, are you?:D:D:D

Yeah, I don't expect a response but once again we couldn't have done it without you. Thank you Cleveland! And it seems like you're getting some more players ready for us in a few years. We do appreciate it.

Haven't you heard. Professional sports teams no longer exist in northeast Ohio :(. They have all but disapppeared. I hear Baltimore is looking for a second team for their city. I know of one they could buy... cheap.

Good to hear that you are able to root for a professional winning team ;).
I wish your teams the best of luck :).

Yeah, I don't expect a response but once again we couldn't have done it without you. Thank you Cleveland! And it seems like you're getting some more players ready for us in a few years. We do appreciate it.

Don't forget that you guys picked up Manny from the Red Sox...he hasn't been leaving uncashed paychecks in cars in Cleveland for years now.

:D

Don't forget that you guys picked up Manny from the Red Sox...he hasn't been leaving uncashed paychecks in cars in Cleveland for years now.

:D

No, I'm well aware of that. I'm just kind of pointing out how the good ones all get away from here.

And what makes Manny such a good deal is the Dodgers paid him zippo. Nadda. Not one red cent. Boston paid his salary.

That's why I think it would be so great to have the Dodgers and Red Sox in the World Series. In L.A., Manny is a god. In Beantown, well, you can just imagine.

I don't know if Blake will be back next year but I'm sure Manny will. I think the Dodgers are looking at bringing back Adrien Beltre from Seatle.

And we are taking LeBron next. As I mentioned before now that he and Kolby have played on the same team, I'll bet King James will be wearing Gold. that is, the Purple and Gold, not the Wine and Gold.

All off topic, I know so we will now return you to your normal conversation.

By the way all playoff games are shown in HD. That kind of brings in in topic.;)

The new PBS 45/49 commercial about their new logo makes about as much sense as the new Microsoft commercial with Seinfeld and Bill Gates. Glad they are spending donors' dollars on that. :rolleyes:

The new PBS 45/49 commercial about their new logo makes about as much sense as the new Microsoft commercial with Seinfeld and Bill Gates. Glad they are spending donors' dollars on that. :rolleyes:

I just flipped over to WNEO right now. If that is going to be the new, permanent bug that is on screen all the time, my viewing that channel will decrease.

It says Coming Soon. Western Reserve (PBS logo) and there is some green colored crap above it that covers the lower third banners of the programming. Luckily it just went away and the normal bug is on. For now.

But even with the ugly bug, I'll still NEVER tune into WVIZ. They'll always be the worst PBS channel on TWC!

Nick, your constant rambling and grumbling about this and that translates to you being the equivilant of a drunken bi-polar hyper-active 9 yr old. Someone like you insinuating that someone else may be immature? An oxymoron indeed. ...emphasis on the moron part for sure. :cool:

Gawd, somebody has no sense of humor. I laughed about your 9 year old thing. (slowly walks towards door).

I'm a horrible procrastinator unless I enjoy what it is I have to do (namely, at this point, my website). Since it doesn't impact my hobbies, I think I should be alright. ;)

- Trip

No, no, that's not it...... Wait a minute - you're wearing your watch on your right arm. That must mean you're a LEFTY, you freak of nature! :)

Good luck on your ham exams.

mike N8NVW

TW sent these letters to everybody that uses cablecards, not just Tivo owners. I have to turn in my cablecard and pay an additional $5 a month for a HD box.
I hope they use the additional bandwidth for more HD channels and not for their telephone and internet service.

I was just looking back and caught your post. I thought that might be the situation. Thanks for the response.

And that's absolute bull #### that they are making you get a box. WTF, it's suppose to be ready for HD.

And I still have not received my letter.

Gawd, somebody has no sense of humor. I laughed about your 9 year old thing. (slowly walks towards door).

nickdawg when I read what you wrote I was a bit surprised. I thought it came off kind of hard, I almost responded myself and said hey, what did smarty - pants do to you?

Then smarty - pants came up with that knock out punch. Which although I also thought was hard was funny as hell!

You see the three of us are wise guys from time to time. And nickdawg, in your case you can change your position more then a polititician.

"All we are saying,
Is give Peace a Chance." So it was a misunderstanding. Now let's be friends again, OK?

See that's the problem with posting, what you really mean and when I say you I mean posting in general can come off different then what you meant.

And nickdawg, you never responded to my question about how you use your DVR. Did you miss the post?

Gawd, somebody has no sense of humor. I laughed about your 9 year old thing. (slowly walks towards door).

Then smarty - pants came up with that knock out punch. Which although I also thought was hard was funny as hell!


How could I have no sense of humor? I thought it was funny... Hook thought it was funny...
:D

I was finally able to lock in 39-3 through 7 last evening, I'm just missing this with a pretty consistant signal of 30% sometimes peaking a bit higher, last night I was catching the signal at 50%..... so the boost likely won't help?39-3 thru 39-7??? The virtural channel numbers are not mapping correctly. The last time I watched WDLI-DT (which was some time ago) the display was 17-1 thru 17-5. It's probably due to the weak signal you were receiving.

I like to DX too, and have gotten weird mappings like that in the past.

Noticed the DTV 39 ID's themself as Akron/Cleveland instead of Canton, I could only hope for the same coverage as 55 here. 49-1 would be nice to have too, no plans for increase of power/coverage on that I suppose? Ironically 55's transmitter is at the northeast corner of the Parma antenna farm, while WDLI-DT is in the western Akron area (thier analog 17 transmitter is in Louisville much closer to their COL). Perhaps WDLI-DT has filed for a change in COL? They can't just ignore their COL (as in not mentioning their COL in the ID's) without FCC approval.

No power increase can help 49-1 as long as they remain in the "Richfield shadow". WVPX-23 suffers from the same anamoly that causes inferior reception for the good chunk of Cuyahoga County.

I wish all the Akron stations (and Cleveland stations too) would move to Richfield. That is the highest point in the region (it's the "summit" in Summit County). Ironically no broadcast tower resides there (with the possible exception of a few cell towers and microwave relays - and trucking companies). Other markets have co-located towers at the high point (in California Mt. Sutro {I'm guessing on the spelling} has most of the LA DMA towers no matter what COL of the stations). From Richfield all the major COL's could be reached with enough power.

No, no, that's not it...... Wait a minute - you're wearing your watch on your right arm. That must mean you're a LEFTY, you freak of nature! :)

Good luck on your ham exams.

mike N8NVW

I'm not a lefty, I just wear my watch on my right hand. I never said I was normal. :p

39-3 thru 39-7??? The virtural channel numbers are not mapping correctly. The last time I watched WDLI-DT (which was some time ago) the display was 17-1 thru 17-5. It's probably due to the weak signal you were receiving.

I like to DX too, and have gotten weird mappings like that in the past.

Without knowing what kind of receiver he has, it's hard to say for sure, but I know that Sony TVs, for instance, will not map anything unless it's detected during a scan. So any new stations will show up unmapped. I'm not familiar with a lot of receivers, but I wouldn't be surprised if more of them did that.

- Trip

Without knowing what kind of receiver he has, it's hard to say for sure, but I know that Sony TVs, for instance, will not map anything unless it's detected during a scan. So any new stations will show up unmapped. I'm not familiar with a lot of receivers, but I wouldn't be surprised if more of them did that.

- Trip

I've noticed that on Sony also, and it's pretty annoying considering how slow the scan is. They must be using a pretty slow processor.

Ironically 55's transmitter is at the northeast corner of the Parma antenna farm, while WDLI-DT is in the western Akron area (thier analog 17 transmitter is in Louisville much closer to their COL). Perhaps WDLI-DT has filed for a change in COL? They can't just ignore their COL (as in not mentioning their COL in the ID's) without FCC approval.

WDLI has not filed to change its COL.

Here, take a look...all Canton.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=67893

Perhaps he saw the legal ID as "WDLI Canton-Akron-Cleveland" and just missed the Canton part...if they put "WDLI Canton" on the screen, they can put anything else after it or in addition to it.

From Richfield all the major COL's could be reached with enough power.

I'm not sure what a move to Richfield would do as far as coverage for the Cleveland-licensed stations. Would it affect, for example, viewers up past Mentor and into Lake County?

It's not happening, anyway. It's a major expense to build a new tower site at a new location, plus you have to gain local zoning approval and fight the NIMBYs. Not worth it for the Cleveland stations...and still a hurdle for stations like WVPX, for example. I assume WEAO wouldn't do it, because it would lessen signal down to the south. WBNX already moved to Parma.

At least with WKYC's new tower, which will also house WVIZ, it's on their existing site - and no zoning fights result.

39-3 thru 39-7??? The virtural channel numbers are not mapping correctly. The last time I watched WDLI-DT (which was some time ago) the display was 17-1 thru 17-5. It's probably due to the weak signal you were receiving.

I like to DX too, and have gotten weird mappings like that in the past.

+1. WDLI-DT is indeed on 17-1 through 17-5.

I got my Insignia/Zenith CECB to "start" to pick up WKBN-DT, and it took in one scan as 41-1/41-2. I think you're correct, in general, a weak signal that's there enough to "scan" but not enough to display could result in odd PSIP/channel results.

With all the discussin about RF and towers lately, I got to wondering how many of our members are ham radio operators. Which got me to wondering if anyone else is going to the Cleveland hamfest tomorrow. :)

As long as the subject in here is on OTA (and this won't get lost in a sea of cable talk), is there anyone here using OTA with a computer-card on Windows who would be willing to give me a hand in some data collection of local stations for my website? If you're interested, either PM or e-mail.

Thanks. =)

EDIT: Inundated has PMed an offer to help, so I think I'm covered. Thanks! =)

- Trip

I bought a new pair of rabbit ears for my cockatoo. I got the Philips Indoor model (http://www.target.com/Philips-Indoor-UHF-Powered-Antenna/dp/B000B58VNM/sr=1-3/qid=1222538516/ref=sr_1_3/602-4821081-8579832?ie=UTF8&index=target&rh=k%3AIndoor%20Antenna&page=1) at Target. I think I saw it on a link in this forum somewhere and it was pretty highly rated.

I still can't get channel 3 at all, but Tyler (the bird) likes FOX 8 and the radio shack one I bought wasn't cutting it. I was lucky to get a 50 signal. With this one I'm getting in the green at 72.

When my wife saw it she simply said "Star Trek." I didn't realize it but it does look like the Enterprise.:)

With all the discussin about RF and towers lately, I got to wondering how many of our members are ham radio operators. Which got me to wondering if anyone else is going to the Cleveland hamfest tomorrow. :)

Guilty as charged, :) but I haven't been on the air since 2000. I never liked going to those hamfests, they are usually over by 9am, pretty much everyone is packed up by noon even though they are suppose to be going till 3-4.

39-3 thru 39-7??? The virtural channel numbers are not mapping correctly. The last time I watched WDLI-DT (which was some time ago) the display was 17-1 thru 17-5. It's probably due to the weak signal you were receiving.

I like to DX too, and have gotten weird mappings like that in the past.

It mapped them at 17-1 to 17-5, however when the signal dropped off while 17-5 was on, the mappings then reverted to 39-3 through 39-7... even within the guide.

Now even though I lost the picture on 50-1 & 50-2, the STB retained the settings as 49-1 & 49-2. :)

The first 2 Magnavox STB's I tested would NOT map 55 as 55-1 but mapped them as 30-1... both Magnavoxes, 2 different models(???) No guide info was available from 55 either.

Now while on the subject of STB's I'm looking into getting a second one to work with my VCR... The Zenith DT901 is clearly the best, but I need a different brand so that it does not confuse the remotes being in the same room.

Was looking into the Apex 250, though some report that the tuner is not quite up to par in the fringe areas which is where I am, & Magnavox/Funi has reliability issues, any advice there?

As long as the subject in here is on OTA (and this won't get lost in a sea of cable talk), is there anyone here using OTA with a computer-card on Windows who would be willing to give me a hand in some data collection of local stations for my website? If you're interested, either PM or e-mail.

Thanks. =)

EDIT: Inundated has PMed an offer to help, so I think I'm covered. Thanks! =)

- Trip


I've wondered could I use my STB's with a video card on the PC when I finally do replace my TV's somewhare down the road? (I would think that would work, though I know it wouldn't be in true HD)

I'm not sure what a move to Richfield would do as far as coverage for the Cleveland-licensed stations. Would it affect, for example, viewers up past Mentor and into Lake County?


Eh... we don't count much up here anyway :p.... suprisingly too when I was in Ashtabula, you almost had a better shot to Cleveland than Erie (which the transmitters were closer). 3 & 5 were a longshot, I was only able to get 8 there on a regular basis, though Ashtabula is still considered part of the Cleveland market.

Repeaters below the ridge would solve that problem, but that's not gonna happen. Right now I'm only mapping 7 channels here, reason why I'm asking about future power increases & transmitter moves.

With all the discussin about RF and towers lately, I got to wondering how many of our members are ham radio operators. Which got me to wondering if anyone else is going to the Cleveland hamfest tomorrow. :)

When is HD fest?

We can get ham at Arby's after. :)

I was just looking back and caught your post. I thought that might be the situation. Thanks for the response.

And that's absolute bull #### that they are making you get a box. WTF, it's suppose to be ready for HD.

And I still have not received my letter.

Why is it bull? Those "HD cable ready" TVs now are a crock. They're not truly cable ready if the Tivo tuning adjuster cannot be used. If you're not getting PPV/VOD, it's NOT cable ready.

I don't have a card slot, but I have one of those ATSC tuners that can pick up the cable channels 'in the clear'. I tried that for awhile, and hated it! The worst part is the lack of the program guide(even if it is the crappy Navigator guide). Not knowing what's currently on really sucks, especially when the channels are on weird xxx.xx numbers. Plus the only digital channels were the big four plus WUAB and WNEO. Any other cable channels were analog. Oh my god that looked horrible!!! 2 to 70 whatever was absolutely unwatchable.

Let's just say during that week of technical difficulties I was very, very happy when the cable guy showed up with an 8300HD!! :p :p :D

Why is it bull? Those "HD cable ready" TVs now are a crock. They're not truly cable ready if the Tivo tuning adjuster cannot be used. If you're not getting PPV/VOD, it's NOT cable ready.

It's bull because you shouldn't have to have a box, but because of SDV you will have to, unless you are just using basic cable.

Why is it that you are such a defender of what TW does? They limit the choices people should be able to have, and since in most areas we don't have a choice of provider I think it's unfair.

I don't have a card slot, but I have one of those ATSC tuners that can pick up the cable channels 'in the clear'. I tried that for awhile, and hated it! The worst part is the lack of the program guide(even if it is the crappy Navigator guide). Not knowing what's currently on really sucks, especially when the channels are on weird xxx.xx numbers. Plus the only digital channels were the big four plus WUAB and WNEO. Any other cable channels were analog. Oh my god that looked horrible!!! 2 to 70 whatever was absolutely unwatchable.

With a TiVo HD and service you get a guide. But irregardless of that there is this magazine that we use to purchase called TV Guide. I haven't looked at it in years but I'll bet they provide all the info.

Let's just say during that week of technical difficulties I was very, very happy when the cable guy showed up with an 8300HD!! :p :p :D

Yes, you're happy this week. Let's see how you are next week.;)

Hey man, I'm just glad you're still around. I was afraid that the thing with you and smarty - pants got you so p.o.'d that you decided to leave. We need you around here for your strange ideas and totally insane commentary.:p

Did a rescan of the QAM channels on Armstrong in Medina today, so I thought I would post the updated channels in case anybody is using the power of Google looking for this kind of thing. And Armstrong doesn't publish it themselves.



[As of 9/27/08]
82-1 ESPN
82-2 Fox News
82-3 CNBC
82-4 CMT
82-5 Travel
82-6 Comedy
82-7 Lifetime
82-8 AMC
82-9 HGTV
82-10 Discovery
82-11 FX
82-12 Bravo
83-1 ESPN2
83-2 MSNBC
83-3 CNN Headline News
83-4 MTV
83-5 USA
83-6 ABC Family
83-7 E!
83-8 A&E
83-9 Animal Planet
83-10 Nickelodeon
83-11 Spike
83-12 TruTV
84-1 Cartoon Network
84-2 CNN
84-3 The Weather Channel
84-4 VH1
84-5 TLC
84-6 History
84-7 TV Land
84-8 TNT
84-9 Food
84-10 TBS
84-11 WE TV
84-12 Sci-Fi
89-1 WKYC NBC
89-2 Fox Sports Net
89-4 Info
89-5 EWTN
89-6 WOAC Independent
89-7 Armstrong Info
89-8 TV Guide
89-9 Local Access (Medina 37)
89-11 Sports Time Ohio
90-1 WEWS ABC
90-2 WUAB MyTV
90-3 WJW Fox 8
90-4 WVIZ PBS
90-5 WNEO PBS
90-6 Inspiration
90-8 WOIO CBS
90-9 WQHS Univision
90-10 FitTV
90-11 ION
90-12 WBNX The CW
91-1 ShopNBC
91-2 (Unknown – showing infomercials the whole time)
91-3 Pentagon Channel
91-4 Home Shopping Network
91-5 C-Span
91-6 Disney
91-7 TCM
91-8 Nicktoons Network
91-9 QVC
91-10 (Armstrong Info?)
94-1 Local Access (Medina 36)
94-2 Shows “No video input” with a running timer but has audio that sounds like somebody’s high school practice room
103-1 WJW Fox 8 (720p)
103-100 WEWS ABC 5 (720p)
104-1 WKYC-DT NBC (1080i)
104-2 NBC Weather Plus (480i)
104-3 WOIO CBS (1080i)


It's interesting that WGN is gone. I went back through the digital guide, and I noticed that it's gone from Armstrong completely. Guess that shows you how much I paid attention to WGN. Wonder when it left?

Also, Armstrong used to have a few other HD channels you could get every now and then (HDNet, etc.) in the 105 range, but they seem to be pretty well gone.

I also removed the PPV/VOD channel numbers from the above, but it appears they're still there.

Channel 5, I love you!!!! "Boston Legal" in syndication is currently being shown in HDTV on ABC5. Tonight's episode is the pilot episode that I never saw in HD. I actually had this episode on VHS from the original ABC airing but I taped over it by mistake earlier this year:mad:. I got it going on the DVR now. Definitely keeping this one.

Did I forget to mention, thank you channel 5?

(and this won't get lost in a sea of cable talk),
- Trip

Don't count on it!

Channel 5, I love you!!!! "Boston Legal" in syndication is currently being shown in HDTV on ABC5. Tonight's episode is the pilot episode that I never saw in HD. I actually had this episode on VHS from the original ABC airing but I taped over it by mistake earlier this year:mad:. I got it going on the DVR now. Definitely keeping this one.

Did I forget to mention, thank you channel 5?

Going off topic but if I recall correctly Alan's character is quite a bit different then it is today. I recall disliking him immensly.

Edited to add: You may have the first episode of Boston Legal but if I recall the real first episode was under the title of "The Practice." It was the only episode I ever watched of that show which is kind of amazing because I actually had Thanksgiving Dinner two years in a row with Dylan McDermott, the star of that show. I was dating someone who knew his then girlfriend's mother. I think he married her. I told him sorry, never saw the show and don't recognize him.:) He said that's OK, it's better that way.

And just to drop in another little fact Dylan's girlfriend Shiva's mother was also an actress. A very famous one in Iran before the Shaw was booted out of there. She had to excape to get away from the Ayatolla (sp?) She has pictures on the wall of her on the set of her show, which as she described it was the equivalent of "I Love Lucy" in Iran. She was a very beautiful woman.

Dylan told me that the way he met Shiva was he saw her in a store and actually stocked her. Then he asked her out for coffee. He said he just knew she was the one.

I didn't know until recently that he had also dated to Julia Roberts.

Edited again to add: I thought I had heard he divorced her, and Wikipedia confirmed it. Apparently he was cheating on her.

Come to think of it he had "someplace to go" shortly after we had dinner.......

Don't count on it!

You know when OTA and satellite people are talking I don't complain about it. I really don't even understand most of it but I know that this is a forum for discussion of local broadcast. We have just as much right to discuss our cable as anyone else, and we have a great deal of things that are currently going on.

My thumbs get tired switching channels on my uncle's Time Warner cable setup after about 1/2 hour because I cannot find anything I like to watch. And thats not including selecting other stuff. You can tell cable and satellite people right off because they have oversize thumbs.
JJK

My thumbs get tired switching channels on my uncle's Time Warner cable setup after about 1/2 hour because I cannot find anything I like to watch. And thats not including selecting other stuff. You can tell cable and satellite people right off because they have oversize thumbs.
JJK

OK.........:confused::confused::confused:

Hint: Try the guide.:)

Don't count on it!

I only mentioned it because I posted the same request here a few months ago and nobody saw it I don't think. This time, Inundated responded and offered to help, so I think I'm okay. =)

- Trip

I only mentioned it because I posted the same request here a few months ago and nobody saw it I don't think. This time, Inundated responded and offered to help, so I think I'm okay. =)

- Trip

Guilty as charged. When OTA subjects come up I usually just glance at it and click off.

But hey Trip, how about coming out to my house and setting me up with a cool antenna for my Cockatoo that can get channel 3?

Just kidding. Anyway he doesn't watch channel 3.:D

I would if it wasn't so far! Believe me, I have reasons aside from digital TV to want to visit Cleveland. ;)

I hate low-VHF as much as you do, and sympathize COMPLETELY with your pain with WKYC-DT.

I suffer with it as well, but on my only PBS station, operating digitally on channel 3. I live on PBS, so this is a bit of a problem.

And you're lucky--WKYC-DT moves to 17 next year (and with a respectable signal strength). My PBS wants channel 3 very badly because of the reduced power cost, and they're throwing money at a new omnidirectional antenna in the hope that it will fix the problem. When it still doesn't work, only then will they try for a UHF channel. So I'm probably going to be SOL for quite some time, and if somehow the GM deems their new antenna a success, I'll be SOL forever.

- Trip

And you're lucky--WKYC-DT moves to 17 next year (and with a respectable signal strength). My PBS wants channel 3 very badly because of the reduced power cost, and they're throwing money at a new omnidirectional antenna in the hope that it will fix the problem. When it still doesn't work, only then will they try for a UHF channel. So I'm probably going to be SOL for quite some time, and if somehow the GM deems their new antenna a success, I'll be SOL forever.

- Trip


Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't WJW moving to VHF in the future? That means I may lose channel 8. That's the station he watches.

To be truthfull my wife puts it on channel 8. I guess she want to synch what we are watching in the morning. We probably will be moving it to WNEW if we lose the signal.

Channel 8 shouldn't be too bad. They seem to want a decent amount of power, and I've seen upper-VHF work out to at least 30 miles with a set of rabbit ears used as a dipole held outside a car window at a rest stop. ;)

- Trip

I still can't get channel 3 at all, but Tyler (the bird) likes FOX 8 and the radio shack one I bought wasn't cutting it. I was lucky to get a 50 signal. With this one I'm getting in the green at 72.


My deepest sympathies go out to you. Must be really, really hard to find out your bird is republican! :p:p:p

Just kidding. Anyway he doesn't watch channel 3.

Maybe once WKYC moves to channel 17 you can bring him back to the real world and convert him to channel 3!!:D:D

I would if it wasn't so far! Believe me, I have reasons aside from digital TV to want to visit Cleveland. ;)

I hate low-VHF as much as you do, and sympathize COMPLETELY with your pain with WKYC-DT.

I suffer with it as well, but on my only PBS station, operating digitally on channel 3. I live on PBS, so this is a bit of a problem.

And you're lucky--WKYC-DT moves to 17 next year (and with a respectable signal strength). My PBS wants channel 3 very badly because of the reduced power cost, and they're throwing money at a new omnidirectional antenna in the hope that it will fix the problem. When it still doesn't work, only then will they try for a UHF channel. So I'm probably going to be SOL for quite some time, and if somehow the GM deems their new antenna a success, I'll be SOL forever.

- Trip

Is your PBS owned by Raycom?;);):D

That sounds exactly like what's happening here with channel 19, which is currently on VHF 10, operating at lower power, AND STAYING THERE!!! I believe it has something to do with a Canadian channel 10 that would interfere, so they cannot go full power. Even though stations are allowed to apply to switch channels, they won't. I think they like their situation, since WOIO is an incredibly cheap station. The kind that runs paid programming much of the weekend(and a few times in primetime:eek:) and the last to get HD news.

Another thing that bothers me is WJW is moving back to 8? I was looking at the RabbitEars page(nice work :D) and I see that WJW is supposed to move back to VHF 8. Seems they had a nice home on UHF 31. Even with a set of crappy rabbit ears I got for free(they consist of two sticks with 300 ohm leads) and I could get 5(15), 8(31), 43(28), 49(50), 55(30), 61(34, and 67(47). They came in well most of the time, although with a better, stronger antenna they'd be much better. I've never seen 3 or 25(obviously) and 19 was a hit or miss deal.

Looks like birdy might not get channel 8 anymore! Uh oh!

Is your PBS owned by Raycom?;);):D

That sounds exactly like what's happening here with channel 19, which is currently on VHF 10, operating at lower power, AND STAYING THERE!!! I believe it has something to do with a Canadian channel 10 that would interfere, so they cannot go full power. Even though stations are allowed to apply to switch channels, they won't. I think they like their situation, since WOIO is an incredibly cheap station. The kind that runs paid programming much of the weekend(and a few times in primetime:eek:) and the last to get HD news.

Another thing that bothers me is WJW is moving back to 8? I was looking at the RabbitEars page(nice work :D) and I see that WJW is supposed to move back to VHF 8. Seems they had a nice home on UHF 31. Even with a set of crappy rabbit ears I got for free(they consist of two sticks with 300 ohm leads) and I could get 5(15), 8(31), 43(28), 49(50), 55(30), 61(34, and 67(47). They came in well most of the time, although with a better, stronger antenna they'd be much better. I've never seen 3 or 25(obviously) and 19 was a hit or miss deal.

Looks like birdy might not get channel 8 anymore! Uh oh!

I think you got it wrong nickdawg, I heard 19 is going to move to UHF 19 and FOX is the one who is moving to 8. At least that's what I thought I read but I could be mistaken. Anyway Trip says they got a good signal.

I think you got it wrong nickdawg, I heard 19 is going to move to UHF 19 and FOX is the one who is moving to 8. At least that's what I thought I read but I could be mistaken. Anyway Trip says they got a good signal.

No. I see WJW moving to 8 and nothing for 19. If 19 was going to request a move, they would ask to go to channel 2!;) They're cheap and the lower power, the better.

Well, the bigger issue is that WOIO at this point could no longer successfully move back to channel 19 (due to WPXD-DT in Detroit wanting to relocate from 31 to 19). I think if they wanted to go UHF at this point, 31 or 32 would likely be under consideration, since that's about all that's left.

I do see that they've applied to boost power and raise their height on channel 10.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=woio

- Trip

Well, the bigger issue is that WOIO at this point could no longer successfully move back to channel 19 (due to WPXD-DT in Detroit wanting to relocate from 31 to 19). I think if they wanted to go UHF at this point, 31 or 32 would likely be under consideration, since that's about all that's left.

I do see that they've applied to boost power and raise their height on channel 10.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=woio

- Trip

Not enough for me to get a decent signal. I'm lucky my little box recognizes it's there.

I do still see they have that message still posted on 19.2.:rolleyes: What a waste of space.

Don't you mean 43.2? WUAB still has that powerpoint slide running where the Tube used to be? Wow, the Tube died around this time last year!!

What really should be done is move that waste called "Weather Now" from 19-2 over to 43-2 so we can get a clear, un bandwidth raped CBS affiliate.

A question for those in the metropolitan Cleveland area who have a SONY DHG-HDD500 DVR with cablecard. I live in Chagrin Falls and I get my TVOSG schedule listings from local host WVIZ PBS 25. Does anyone know yet if the Digital CBS channel in the area has begun or plans to carry the TVGOS guide listings after February 2009? Thanks.

[QUOTE=nickdawg;14757668]Don't you mean 43.2? WUAB still has that powerpoint slide running where the Tube used to be? Wow, the Tube died around this time last year!!



Yep, that's the one.

A question for those in the metropolitan Cleveland area who have a SONY DHG-HDD500 DVR with cablecard. I live in Chagrin Falls and I get my TVOSG schedule listings from local host WVIZ PBS 25. Does anyone know yet if the Digital CBS channel in the area has begun or plans to carry the TVGOS guide listings after February 2009? Thanks.

You have a cablecard. That means you must have cable. Chagrin Falls, I would say TW. And you get your listings from WVIZ? :confused:

And what the heck is TVGOS?

Whatever it is, if it involves getting something from WOIO I wouldn't count on it. But somebody please tell me what this guy is talking about?

TVGOS = TV Guide Onscreen Service. I have a page dedicated to it on my website. =)

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

I have no information about WOIO yet. Hopefully if Inundated sends me some good data from WOIO-DT, I'll be able to give an answer.

- Trip

You have a cablecard. That means you must have cable. Chagrin Falls, I would say TW. And you get your listings from WVIZ? :confused:

And what the heck is TVGOS?

Whatever it is, if it involves getting something from WOIO I wouldn't count on it. But somebody please tell me what this guy is talking about?

TVGOS stands for the TV Guide On Screen which is is the free guide listings that the SONY Hi-Def DVR with cablecard uses and which is currently downloaded in my area from WVIZ. Obviously you don't have a clue, so is there
anyone out there that does have the same unit that can shed some light on this? Thanks.

TVGOS = TV Guide Onscreen Service. I have a page dedicated to it on my website. =)

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

I have no information about WOIO yet. Hopefully if Inundated sends me some good data from WOIO-DT, I'll be able to give an answer.

- Trip

Thank you very much for the info. It's just that I am getting a little nervous as the February analog cut off looms close by and I would hate to have to trade my SONY HD DVR for a TW cable box if CBS doesn't take over from PBS, and I am not interested at all in a TIVO.

Thank you very much for the info. It's just that I am getting a little nervous as the February analog cut off looms close by and I would hate to have to trade my SONY HD DVR for a TW cable box if CBS doesn't take over from PBS, and I am not interested at all in a TIVO.

I have another question. That Sony DVR uses cable cards, right?

NE Ohio TWC is set to begin SDV on October 20. Will that box be capable of receiving SDV channels? The Tivo boxes will be able to get SDV with the help of a tuning adapter. You might end up needing a TWC DVR.

I have another question. That Sony DVR uses cable cards, right?

NE Ohio TWC is set to begin SDV on October 20. Will that box be capable of receiving SDV channels? The Tivo boxes will be able to get SDV with the help of a tuning adapter. You might end up needing a TWC DVR.

Yes. One cable card. I'll be shut out of any SDV channels, unless SONY implements a software upgrade between now and February 2009 so that I can
hook up the tuning adapter to the USB port on the back of the unit and access the SDV channels. I hope so. If not, I'll do without those channels until I make a decision about a TW cable box.

What really should be done is move that waste called "Weather Now" from 19-2 over to 43-2 so we can get a clear, un bandwidth raped CBS affiliate.

Now THAT idea is pure genius. Raycom would get to keep their WeatherNow advertising dollars, and we'd get back 100% pure CBS 1080i goodness. A win-win for everybody.

The only viewers affected would be the 2 people in the Cleveland metro area that actually watch WeatherNow over the air.

Yes. One cable card. I'll be shut out of any SDV channels, unless SONY implements a software upgrade between now and February 2009 so that I can
hook up the tuning adapter to the USB port on the back of the unit and access the SDV channels. I hope so. If not, I'll do without those channels until I make a decision about a TW cable box.

There are about 90 channels that are going SDV. I really wish someone who got a letter would post the list. Plus any new HD channels added after SDV will also be switched.

Somebody needs to post the list/letter!!

Now THAT idea is pure genius. Raycom would get to keep their WeatherNow advertising dollars, and we'd get back 100% pure CBS 1080i goodness. A win-win for everybody.

The only viewers affected would be the 2 people in the Cleveland metro area that actually watch WeatherNow over the air.

Those two viewers would just have to rescan and pick it up on 43.2. A minor, tiny inconvenience to give us ALL better PQ.

There are about 90 channels that are going SDV. I really wish someone who got a letter would post the list. Plus any new HD channels added after SDV will also be switched.



When did it go to 90. Last I heard it was 50. nickdawg, you're at it again.

lol you and I are so much alike. I have a tendency to raise the number as well. And I still haven't got my letter.

Patience, nickdawg.:rolleyes:;)

Yeah, I know patience my a##.:D

When did it go to 90. Last I heard it was 50. nickdawg, you're at it again.

lol you and I are so much alike. I have a tendency to raise the number as well. And I still haven't got my letter.

Patience, nickdawg.:rolleyes:;)

Yeah, I know patience my a##.:D

Breaking News for NEO TWC customers:

Got a letter in the mail today from TWC saying that SDV starts on
Monday 10/20/08. Tuning Adapters will be offered later this year.
It is currently believed that they will be offered at no charge.

Ben Music

Included with the letter is a list of about 80 ch's that will
be delivered using SDV. The letter states that they are
lesser viewed channels. The good thing about this is now
there will be more room for lots of new HD channels.

Ben Music

See, it is 80. Almost 90.

One wonders if the weather was transferred from 19.2 to 43.2 how long it would be before something else was put in place on 19.2 for those two viewers?
JJK

I have no information about WOIO yet. Hopefully if Inundated sends me some good data from WOIO-DT, I'll be able to give an answer.


I'll get back to you soon, as soon as I figure it all out and feel better.

Just so you know, though, I CAN get WOIO-DT on my CECB in the kitchen...it's still problematic, and with the USB tuner I might have to get in the car and drive north with my laptop...

One wonders if the weather was transferred from 19.2 to 43.2 how long it would be before something else was put in place on 19.2 for those two viewers?

Exactly.

They're not gonna move "WeatherNow" from 19.2 to 43.2 even IF they had no other plans for 43.2. It's tied to their "19 Action News" branding, and they'll keep it on the main channel.

I'm surprised 43.2 hasn't lit up with Retro TV (.2?) or something. They must be anticipating something, or they wouldn't have kept the slide up this long...or maybe it's just Raycom being Raycom.

Exactly.

They're not gonna move "WeatherNow" from 19.2 to 43.2 even IF they had no other plans for 43.2. It's tied to their "19 Action News" branding, and they'll keep it on the main channel.

I'm surprised 43.2 hasn't lit up with Retro TV (.2?) or something. They must be anticipating something, or they wouldn't have kept the slide up this long...or maybe it's just Raycom being Raycom.

Raycom owns 43 too?

I thought the same, what a waste of bandwidth... to be broadcasting that message for so long. Too bad, it was like watching Friday Night Videos back in the '80's. :( Better yet untill a replacement for the Tube, simulcast 19's weather now on 43-2.

If MyNetworkTV operates the same way that Fox does (I suspect they do but have never heard for certain), they use the splicer to do HD from the network. In that sense, there is no "wasted" bandwidth because the station cannot tamper with network programming--the space is reserved whether there's a subchannel or not. That said, it'd be much more efficient to move the weather subchannel over to 43-2 and give the bandwidth back to 19-1 by killing off 19-2. Even if they won't do it.

I can't speak for any sports in HD that WUAB may or may not air.

- Trip

Well, the bigger issue is that WOIO at this point could no longer successfully move back to channel 19 (due to WPXD-DT in Detroit wanting to relocate from 31 to 19). I think if they wanted to go UHF at this point, 31 or 32 would likely be under consideration, since that's about all that's left.

I do see that they've applied to boost power and raise their height on channel 10.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=woio

- Trip

31 or 32 is all that's left? & yet they are loping off 52-69 to be sold over to the cell phone industry??!! What's going to happen in real markets like NY, Boston, LA, Atlanta & Houston?... NY claims nearly 25 indvidual DTV channels.

I keep seeing the commercial that we will have increased channels with DTV, I think I'll be getting a few less (although they will be clearer).

Nice link :)

If MyNetworkTV operates the same way that Fox does (I suspect they do but have never heard for certain), they use the splicer to do HD from the network. In that sense, there is no "wasted" bandwidth because the station cannot tamper with network programming--the space is reserved whether there's a subchannel or not. That said, it'd be much more efficient to move the weather subchannel over to 43-2 and give the bandwidth back to 19-1 by killing off 19-2. Even if they won't do it.

I can't speak for any sports in HD that WUAB may or may not air.

- Trip

I'm not sure how MNTV works. Since it is a FOX property, they could be using the same splicer system, although MNTV does not insert a 'local bug' at the splicer. Or even a network bug. WUAB is 720p so it would be the perfect candidate for a subchannel. Much better than a 1080i CBS station. I'll see what I can find out on this one.

Starting today I no longer receive the Big Ten Network HD. I have the HD package. I wonder if they put it in another package? Does anyone know what is going on?

TW - Cable SDV Testing in OCT

The real question is what channels will be put over SDV. For those of us with multiple cable cards, what channels will only be avaiable with a cable box?

TW - Cable SDV Testing in OCT

The real question is what channels will be put over SDV. For those of us with multiple cable cards, what channels will only be avaiable with a cable box?

Did they send out a letter? Some other readers here had letters from TWC mailed last week. I'd really like to see a list too, but the TWC website says nothing of SDV. But they are supposed to start SDV on October 20.

31 or 32 is all that's left? & yet they are loping off 52-69 to be sold over to the cell phone industry??!! What's going to happen in real markets like NY, Boston, LA, Atlanta & Houston?... NY claims nearly 25 indvidual DTV channels.

I keep seeing the commercial that we will have increased channels with DTV, I think I'll be getting a few less (although they will be clearer).

Nice link :)

Thanks. =)

If the market's full, it's full. Simple as that. Some of them are.

Actually, the more I think about it, I think 32 is out because of an analog in Windsor, ON. So that leaves 31. Here's an automated search from my site which shows available channels from the WOIO tower site:

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=channel&zipcode=&latitude=41.388&longitude=-81.695

Those are frequencies that would meet the FCC's minimum spacing requirements as laid out in 73.623. That says nothing of complex interference surveys, etc.

I'm not sure how MNTV works. Since it is a FOX property, they could be using the same splicer system, although MNTV does not insert a 'local bug' at the splicer. Or even a network bug. WUAB is 720p so it would be the perfect candidate for a subchannel. Much better than a 1080i CBS station. I'll see what I can find out on this one.

Thanks. =)

- Trip

Actually, the more I think about it, I think 32 is out because of an analog in Windsor, ON. So that leaves 31.

Hate to quote myself but I investigated this some more and discovered that 31 is not the only available frequency. If WDLI-DT is granted their move from 39 to 49, that would open the door for a shuffle of sorts. WOAC-DT 47 could be paid off to relocate to channel 39 (given how small their coverage area is anyway) and then 47 would be open in Cleveland. So theoretically, if upper-VHF doesn't work out for WOIO and WJW, both would be able to find homes after the transition.

- Trip

Starting today I no longer receive the Big Ten Network HD. I have the HD package. I wonder if they put it in another package? Does anyone know what is going on?

I have TiVo and it's coming in just fine. But then again I have not received a letter about SDV on 10/20. Which won't happen anyway.

Starting today I no longer receive the Big Ten Network HD. I have the HD package. I wonder if they put it in another package? Does anyone know what is going on?

Do you use cable card, Tivo or TWC equipment?

Do you use cable card, Tivo or TWC equipment?

Just a cablecard.

Just a cablecard.

BTN HD still comes in on my SA box. I'd guess it's a cable card thing, since most(if not all) the HD channels other than local broadcast will be SDV. Usually any new added channels and existing ones become SDV after it's put in place.

A letter from TWC should be coming soon. I think hookbill didn't get one either.

As of right now, I still see "SDV Not Enabled" on the diagnostics channel.

Thanks. =)

If the market's full, it's full. Simple as that. Some of them are.

Actually, the more I think about it, I think 32 is out because of an analog in Windsor, ON. So that leaves 31. Here's an automated search from my site which shows available channels from the WOIO tower site:

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=channel&zipcode=&latitude=41.388&longitude=-81.695

Those are frequencies that would meet the FCC's minimum spacing requirements as laid out in 73.623. That says nothing of complex interference surveys, etc.



Thanks. =)

- Trip

Which would bring us to the fate of WRAP 32 in Cleveland? Since they are a low power, I was speculating that they would be continuing to broadcast after February. I also used to get in quite regularily a CITY affiliate here on 31 that likely was coming in somewhere around London Ontario.

I'm thinking that adjacent channels are not too much of a problem with digital over analog, since 30 (WBNX) does not interfere with 31 (WJW)?

Hate to quote myself but I investigated this some more and discovered that 31 is not the only available frequency. If WDLI-DT is granted their move from 39 to 49, that would open the door for a shuffle of sorts. WOAC-DT 47 could be paid off to relocate to channel 39 (given how small their coverage area is anyway) and then 47 would be open in Cleveland. So theoretically, if upper-VHF doesn't work out for WOIO and WJW, both would be able to find homes after the transition.

- Trip

Looking at the Rabbit ears chart, I also see that 14 is licensed in Cleveland (??) (LM)???

Also 65 (WXOX) Cleveland is slated to increase power after February to relocate to 44 DT with a power increase. Id provide links on this but I'm on dialup, & more than 2 browser windows crashes me. :(

Fate of LP 53 & 35 out of Cleveland? I get 53 out here, but no 35.

Wait a minute, there's a channel 32 and a channel 65???:confused::confused::confused:

LM is Land Mobile. That is, public safety radios. 15 is also reserved for that purpose, so I have no idea how WEWS-DT ended up there.

Realize that this list only takes into account full-power and Class A stations. Those are the only ones that matter. If a full-power station wants to sign on and a low-power is in the way, the low-power station has to move. They are also not bound by the same spacing rules, so they can operate on channel 44 as long as they don't cause interference to any other full-powered facility.

As for adjacent channels, they don't matter in digital so long as they're co-located. You could have 30 and 31 co-located at Parma, but if 30 was transmitting from Akron where WVPX is, for instance, that wouldn't work.

- Trip

I really wish someone who got a letter would post the list.

Since you asked nicely.... :)

Existing channels that will be delivered using SDV beginning 10/20/08

1 Movieloft
185 Access TV
186 Shopping
187 Cable Response TV
188 Gems TV
189 America's Auction Network
190 Hollywood Celebrity Products
191 Celebrity Shopping
192 TV Superstore
193 The Jewelry Channel
194 Shoping
281 Sundance
282 Flix
290 Encore
291 Encore Love
292 Encore Mysteries
293 Encore Drama
294 Encore WAM!
295 Encore Westerns
296 Encore Action
319 FCS Atlantic
320 FCS Central
321 FCS Pacific
322 College Sports TV
324 NHL Network
325 NBA TV
327 Tennis Channel
328 Fuel TV
329 G4
330 Outdoor Channel
350 CNN
351 Headline News
352 Fox News
354 MSNBC
355 CNBC
370 Weather Channel
385 EWTN
399 TWC Infomercials
435 STOHD
436 FSN HD
470 Universal HD
471 HDNet
472 HDNet Movies
473 Mojo
610 HBO W
611 HBO2 W
612 HBO Signature W
613 HBO Family W
614 HBO Comedy W
615 HBO Zone W
710 HD PPV Events
741-754 NHL Center Ice/MLB
761-770 NBA/MLS Sport Packages
781-786 ESPN GamePlan / Full Court
801 GalaVision
805 mun2
806 Canal Sur
807 Cnn en Espanol
808 History en Espanol
809 Discover en Espanol
810 La Familia
811 Toon Disney en Espanol
812 Boomerang en Espanol
813 ESPN Deportes
814 Fox Sports en Espanol
815 MTV Tr3s
816 CineLatino
850 International MOD
851 ART Arabic
852 RAI International
853 TV Asia
854 DW TV
855 Zee TV
857 Filipino Channel
858 TV5Monde
859 TV Japan
860 TV Russia

Since you asked nicely.... :)


Thank You!! :D:D:D

It looks like SDV will be no big deal for Tivo users without the tuning adjusters. Noting of importance is being moved to SDV. The only ones I can think of are MSNBC, CNN, Headline News and Weather Channel, all of which are available in analog anyway.

The big hit will come when TWC adds new HD channels, which most likely will be SDV.

LM is Land Mobile. That is, public safety radios. 15 is also reserved for that purpose, so I have no idea how WEWS-DT ended up there.
- Trip

The UHF TV allocations to public safety is in only of a few of the largest cities (e.g., NYC & LA, DC, maybe Chicago off the top of my head.) It does not affect Cleveland. (Because it borders Canada, Cleveland area has access to the 420-430 MHz block for public safety which is used by many suburban agencies.

The UHF TV allocations to public safety is in only of a few of the largest cities (e.g., NYC & LA, DC, maybe Chicago off the top of my head.) It does not affect Cleveland. (Because it borders Canada, Cleveland area has access to the 420-430 MHz block for public safety which is used by many suburban agencies.

Interesting. I wonder why the FCC would leave those channels reserved if they're not being used then. (See half-way down the linked document)

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/47cfr73.623.htm

Though that does explain why they were ignored in both Cleveland and Detroit. (WKBD-DT 14 in Detroit) Learn something new every day. =)

- Trip

Thank You!! :D:D:D

It looks like SDV will be no big deal for Tivo users without the tuning adjusters. Noting of importance is being moved to SDV. The only ones I can think of are MSNBC, CNN, Headline News and Weather Channel, all of which are available in analog anyway.

The big hit will come when TWC adds new HD channels, which most likely will be SDV.

I still don't see how they can use SDV in our area if they still have people with SARA software. So I'll turn to my good buddy along time forum friend Inundated.

Inundated, I know you still have the SA 8000. Have you ever looked at the diagnostic screen to see what firmware you're running? And do you see anything else about SDV in there? Have you got a letter yet?

Anybody in this area on SARA, have you been switched to Navigator?

I still will bet it doesn't happen for those who got the letter on 10/20. Any takers, please pm me.;)

This bothers me a bit:
435 STOHD
436 FSN HD
470 Universal HD
471 HDNet
472 HDNet Movies
473 Mojo

Now STO I'm OK with so long as we have the tuner adapter by April. If SDV is actually available in my area by then.

The other 4 channels I pay for. I've been thinking about getting rid of them anyway since I never watch them. Maybe I'll do that today.

Another thing I find odd is just like in Austin none of the Showtime channels are affected. You would think they would do the same thing with the secondary, Cinemax, and Movie Channels.

The UHF TV allocations to public safety is in only of a few of the largest cities (e.g., NYC & LA, DC, maybe Chicago off the top of my head.) It does not affect Cleveland. (Because it borders Canada, Cleveland area has access to the 420-430 MHz block for public safety which is used by many suburban agencies.

I remember something like that when I bought my 440 rig out west, I think If I would have purchased it in Ohio, there would have been certain transmit frequencies blocked...... or something like that.

Speaking of Ham Radio...

With all the discussin about RF and towers lately, I got to wondering how many of our members are ham radio operators. Which got me to wondering if anyone else is going to the Cleveland hamfest tomorrow. :)

How did the fest pan out??? Greasy high chlorestrol breakfast at 4am?? :D

Speaking of Ham Radio...



How did the fest pan out??? Greasy high chlorestrol breakfast at 4am?? :D


Well, there was no ham, although there was a kielbasi vendor there, so I guess they had grease. I wouldn't know for sure, being a vegetarian. ;)

It was fun though. I go for the flea market as well as the chance to see friends that I usually don't bump into exccept at these kinds of events. As a group, they are some of the most polite, intelligent and humblest people out there. And of courese it's fun to talk tech with them.

I didn't score any major bargains at the fest, just some electronic odds and ends that you used to be able to find at Radio Shack, Lafayette or Olson's.

The main thing is that these gatherings help to keep the communications hobby alive. These are the kinds of people who you'll find behind the scenes at radio & tv stations as well as other related industries. They're the folks working in the bowels of their facilities, keeping their stations on the air.

My kind of folks. :D

I still will bet it doesn't happen for those who got the letter on 10/20. Any takers, please pm me.;)


Hmm, do I hear another train? ;)

Inundated, I know you still have the SA 8000. Have you ever looked at the diagnostic screen to see what firmware you're running? And do you see anything else about SDV in there? Have you got a letter yet?


I'll have to go upstairs, remember how to get into the diagnostic screen, and check.

But I'd already posted that I saw three SDV-related screens the last time I checked. I was under the impression that SARA had no problem with SDV, from that and what I've read in other threads.

BTW, Trip? I have the TSReader exports done, except for the signal problem children (WKYC-DT, WVIZ-DT and WOIO-DT - the latter I'll just have to fiddle with an antenna, since the one here in this room has broken VHF aerials...I should be able to take the laptop into the kitchen and get it there on the other antenna I get it with now).

Oh, and of course, no WMFD-DT, because I'm nowhere near Mansfield.

Just for everyone who cares...it looks like that computer slide telling us "The Tube" is gone from WUAB-DT 43.2 is taking up about 2.2Mbps of bandwidth.

BTN HD still comes in on my SA box. I'd guess it's a cable card thing, since most(if not all) the HD channels other than local broadcast will be SDV. Usually any new added channels and existing ones become SDV after it's put in place.

A letter from TWC should be coming soon. I think hookbill didn't get one either.

As of right now, I still see "SDV Not Enabled" on the diagnostics channel.

I called TW yesterday and told them I no longer receiving the BTN HD, after talking to four different people they decided to send a tech to my home. After about 30 minutes they figured out there was something missing from the data stream and 15 minutes later I had the BTN HD back on and running.

As it turns out, the only thing getting me WOIO-DT on non-amplified rabbit ears in the kitchen is...the Zenith/Insignia CECB.

Hmm, do I hear another train? ;)

Ummmm...you wern't exactly right the last time. Train arrived very late in some areas. Back at ya!;)

The SARA version on my SA8000HD is:
1.89.24.1

It has SDV screens, though it says "SDV Client - Authorized: No" and "SDV Channels: 0". I suspect it may be just because they haven't turned it on yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't WJW moving to VHF in the future? That means I may lose channel 8. That's the station he watches.

To be truthfull my wife puts it on channel 8. I guess she want to synch what we are watching in the morning. We probably will be moving it to WNEW if we lose the signal.
The birds will have nothing to worry about. WJW-DT's move to rf ch 8 will actually be an improvement. Unlike low band VHF high band VHF is actually thebest place to be for digital TV, that is unless you are on a channel with a Canadian analog signal that is not going away in Feb. '09.

WJW-DT on 8 will be full power, unlike WOIO-DT which will still have to protect CFPL-TV for years to come.

The current analog ch 8 has a terrific signal, my Aunt in PA (by Pymatuning) gets it OTA better than the Erie stations that she is supposed to get.

This article would seem to confirm that SARA, Time Warner Cable and SDV are at least a theoretical match:

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=143649&site=cdn


BigBand has systems already deployed or initiated for deployment with six large cable operators
(snip)

Time Warner Cable Inc. (NYSE: TWC - message board) and Cablevision have also been announced, and speculation is that Videotron Telecom Ltd. is also in the mix. Comcast Corp. (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) has approved BigBand as an SDV vendor but has not publicly committed to any deployments with the vendor.

BigBand also lays claim to having deployments in place in cable systems based on both the Scientific Atlanta and Motorola Inc. (NYSE: MOT - message board) digital cable environments, and multiple interactive guide implementations, including Aptiv (part of Gemstar-TV Guide), and SA's SARA (Scientific Atlanta Resident Application) guide.

Ohio Media Blog (http://www.ohiomedia.blogspot.com/) is reporting that WVIZ is moving to the WKYC tower site earlier than originally planned. There will be a temporary 10KW transmitter on an existing tower (I presume that would be the shorter back-up tower, but that is higher than what they have now.

It seems that the reason for the quick move to the new site is the sale of the old WVIZ studio buiding on Brookpark Rd.

This article would seem to confirm that SARA, Time Warner Cable and SDV are at least a theoretical match:

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=143649&site=cdn

Well, that certainly would explain the non conversion to Navigator. Unfortunately for me I'll lose STO for a bit in HD. But then again I never look at it unless I'm watching the Tribe. Always good to keep an eye out for future prospects.:D

Still no letter as of yet however. I did cancel the premium HD tier today since I never look at it. The rep I talked to told me they had a "two for one" special, HBO and Cinemax which D* use to give all the time. I expressed an interest then she told me "for six months" and I said there's the gimmick.

I'll turn HBO back on when Big Love comes around. I still got a whole season of Dexter I purchased at Amazon.Com.

One of the things that is cool about TiVo and Amazon Unbox is you can store it with them and download on an as need basis. Of course if you don't have TiVo you can download to computer. The downside is it isn't in HD.

Ohio Media Blog (http://www.ohiomedia.blogspot.com/) is reporting that WVIZ is moving to the WKYC tower site earlier than originally planned. There will be a temporary 10KW transmitter on an existing tower (I presume that would be the shorter back-up tower, but that is higher than what they have now.

It seems that the reason for the quick move to the new site is the sale of the old WVIZ studio buiding on Brookpark Rd.

Looks like sometime in November this may happen (???)

10KW... still may not see this till August.

As it turns out, the only thing getting me WOIO-DT on non-amplified rabbit ears in the kitchen is...the Zenith/Insignia CECB.


The Zenith 901 seems to be the best STB, I have a coupon expiring tomorrow & am debating on which other box to use with the VCR. Other choices seem to only be the Apx DT250, or the Wal Mart Magnavox, which I previously had & took back. Rather have a second Zenith but since I don't want the remotes confusing each other, I'll go with a diffrent brand.

Speaking of which am I better to use a 4 way splitter for this operation? I am splitting to a TV, an FM reciever, & 2 STB's, or would I be better off doing this with 3 2 way splitters (which I already have?)... I'm assuming the losses would be the same here?

Wait a minute, there's a channel 32 and a channel 65???:confused::confused::confused:

That is correct... 32 is in Downtown Cleveland by the Science Center, 65 & 53 are at the farm.

Considering the power used I get them out here in color & watchable but a bit snowy most of the time.

Well, there was no ham, although there was a kielbasi vendor there, so I guess they had grease. I wouldn't know for sure, being a vegetarian. ;)

It was fun though. I go for the flea market as well as the chance to see friends that I usually don't bump into exccept at these kinds of events. As a group, they are some of the most polite, intelligent and humblest people out there. And of courese it's fun to talk tech with them.

I didn't score any major bargains at the fest, just some electronic odds and ends that you used to be able to find at Radio Shack, Lafayette or Olson's.

The main thing is that these gatherings help to keep the communications hobby alive. These are the kinds of people who you'll find behind the scenes at radio & tv stations as well as other related industries. They're the folks working in the bowels of their facilities, keeping their stations on the air.

My kind of folks. :D

The general senerao I seen was meet up with friends for greasy breakfasts at 4am, hang out at the door for early admittance & snatch up all deals by 6am... :D I like to sleep in myself, so when I get there at 9 or 10 it's closing down :( ... I guess the fox hunts were a bit fun.

I only picked up oddball tools, connectors, & coax there myself.

Ummmm...you wern't exactly right the last time. Train arrived very late in some areas. Back at ya!;)

I don't know, the train came through Akron on time last time around...:D

Hey guys, I'm not getting the local converted digital channels. I can get them in HD but not at their regular locations, in my area 4 WOIO 5 WEWS 6 WUAB and 8 WJW. I have a grey screen.

I record some court shows on WUAB and WJW during the day to save on disk space. Can someone else with a box check and see what they have going on? If it's a cable card thing I'll call my head end person. All other digital channels are fine.

Interesting. I wonder why the FCC would leave those channels reserved if they're not being used then. (See half-way down the linked document)

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/47cfr73.623.htm

Though that does explain why they were ignored in both Cleveland and Detroit. (WKBD-DT 14 in Detroit) Learn something new every day. =)

- Trip
Look at 90.303. For some reason 15 & 16 are allocated but not assignable in the Cleveland or Detroit areas (probably due to Canadian coordination issues.)

That's interesting. I think that's a direct consequence of WEWS-DT on 15 and WKBD-DT on 14. Considering it references WNEP, and the channel 16 reservation has only been made within the last two years, that would make sense.

- Trip

If anybody saw my request to check cable channels that were digitally uploaded, please disregard that. It seemed to be a cable card issue and I managed to fix it. It was only happening to one of my TiVo's and I think it was just one card.

As I told you I cancelled the "premium" HD tier. Apparently Universal HD is no longer a part of that tier as I'm still receiving that. So for your 5 bucks you get HDnet, HDnetmovies, and Mojo.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Just thought I would let you know.

If anybody saw my request to check cable channels that were digitally uploaded, please disregard that. It seemed to be a cable card issue and I managed to fix it. It was only happening to one of my TiVo's and I think it was just one card.

As I told you I cancelled the "premium" HD tier. Apparently Universal HD is no longer a part of that tier as I'm still receiving that. So for your 5 bucks you get HDnet, HDnetmovies, and Mojo.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Just thought I would let you know.

It'll go away soon. I was getting Universal HD until about last week. After the Olympics ended and they nuked USA HD, they left Universal HD on "in the clear". Just noticed it is gone yesterday, along with a few other channels:eek::eek::eek:. It seems TWC is taking channels away and putting them in some $5 extra tier. Stuff like DIY, Fine Living and some of the kids channels.

I don't know, the train came through Akron on time last time around...:D

Right. And it's only going to be passing through those cities that received notices, which is not necessarily everywhere on the first pass. If you didn't get a notice, I'm guessing ;) that you won't be affected this time.

As always my information is offered without warranty. Your actual milage may vary. Void where prohibited. Close cover before striking.

It'll go away soon. I was getting Universal HD until about last week. After the Olympics ended and they nuked USA HD, they left Universal HD on "in the clear". Just noticed it is gone yesterday, along with a few other channels:eek::eek::eek:. It seems TWC is taking channels away and putting them in some $5 extra tier. Stuff like DIY, Fine Living and some of the kids channels.

I really could care less. I still don't watch Universal I was just checking to make sure they removed the tier. Seems strange that they would leave a channel and then remove it later, but this is TW we are talking about.

And what they do with the digital channels, moving those to the upper tier is just them ripping people off again. Fortunately the only digital channel I look at is BBC America.

Right. And it's only going to be passing through those cities that received notices, which is not necessarily everywhere on the first pass. If you didn't get a notice, I'm guessing ;) that you won't be affected this time.

As always my information is offered without warranty. Your actual milage may vary. Void where prohibited. Close cover before striking.

I didn't get a notice, I do not have a Tivo or a cable card. However, mnowlin, from Cuyahoga Falls(Akron System) did. Methinks the train will make a stop at the Dawg house in Akron...:D

I didn't get a notice, I do not have a Tivo or a cable card. However, mnowlin, from Cuyahoga Falls(Akron System) did. Methinks the train will make a stop at the Dawg house in Akron...:D

I don't understand what the big deal is. Even if they start SDV that doesn't meant they will start adding HD channels left and right. You have to keep things in perspective, we're talking Time Warner here.

Well, it wouldn't matter if it was Time Warner, Adelphia, Comcast, they all are evil. And when they do start adding HD channels are they going to put them on their upper tier? I can't believe they will continue to offer 4 stations for that extra 5 bucks.

I had a crummy day at work today. Everything sucks.

I hope you're dreams come true nickdawg. Seriously.

I'm getting ready to buy my first HD TV (Samsung LN52A750) and am researching where to get the best HD programming. I took a look at the picture quality of Time Warner's HD locals on a new 46" Sony LCD and was disappointed. I also wasn't a big fan of the 8300HDC DVR...but I'm used to Tivo so I'm a bit jaded. My question is whether the locals look any better on Dish or DirecTV than on TWC. I'm leaning towards Dish because of the better DVR but picture quality is the main concern.

I don't understand what the big deal is. Even if they start SDV that doesn't meant they will start adding HD channels left and right. You have to keep things in perspective, we're talking Time Warner here.

Well, it wouldn't matter if it was Time Warner, Adelphia, Comcast, they all are evil. And when they do start adding HD channels are they going to put them on their upper tier? I can't believe they will continue to offer 4 stations for that extra 5 bucks.

I had a crummy day at work today. Everything sucks.

I hope you're dreams come true nickdawg. Seriously.

When I had the TW service guy at my home I ask him about SDV and what they were going to do with the additional bandwidth. He wouldn't admit to anything, but he said their phone service was very popular.

And when they do start adding HD channels are they going to put them on their upper tier? I can't believe they will continue to offer 4 stations for that extra 5 bucks.


I can. Before UHD, the extra ripoff tier consisted of INHD, HDNET and HD NET Movies. And it was the same $6. Now there are rumors that MOJO HD will be going away, which will again leave three channel on the HD tier.

These new HD channels should NOT be on any extra tier, if they are channels we already get on digital cable(like USA HD, FX HD, CNN HD, National Geographic HD, A&E HD, ESPNU HD, ESPN News HD).

[QUOTE=gavram;14780949] My question is whether the locals look any better on Dish or DirecTV than on TWC.


I get digital locals OTA as well as on D*(H20) and despite all the arguments over compression and such I find no discernible difference between the two. I'm viewing on a 50" Sony SXRD from a distance of 8'. BTW- You've come to the right place if you want opinions from cable customers!!!

any inside information on when and what new HD Channels will be added to TW System ?

I see Channels mentioned just not sure if those are wishfull thinking or someone has heard something legit ??

I hate to say it but i would think some of the new channels will be added to the Pay HD Tier to give customers more of a reason to pay for it..

If I do that..I will just drop something else I am paying for..like Showtime or HBO..

But lets add some more HD Channels..even if I have to pay the $5.00 to get them at least as an owner of a HD TV I have more options then I do now

any inside information on when and what new HD Channels will be added to TW System ?



ErieMarty, I notice just about every time you post you ask the same question. "Does anybody have any inside information...etc."

I understand why you ask but if anybody did they would post it. TW keeps that info very quiet and unless you work there or know someone who knows the right person that works there, that's the only way.

Now I have a contact in headend and she won't tell me anything. I believe she honestly doesn't know.

And as I said before the arrival of SDV does not mean an on slot of HD.

It doesn't hurt to ask, but I doubt you will get anything but rumors.

It could be helpful to look at other TWC markets to see what channels they have. There's a good chance that if they have channels you don't, that those will be the ones they'll eventually add. IIRC TWC has national agreements for some of the HD channels, but I think it's up to the local market to determine if they're going to add them or not. If they're making room, it's possible the local market may decide to start carrying some of the additional channels. Now, that being said, they may not add any channels until the entire NEO market can add these channels.

As hook said, you're not likely to get a good or straight answer out of anyone at TWC.

I am just a frustrated owner of a HD TV who still has Time Warner cable..and just want more options for my HD Viewing..

Sorry for asking the same question over and over again.

Just wish they would throw us out some kind of bone .. like by the end of the year we expect to add another 15 to 20 HD channels to what we have now..

just something.....

I am just a frustrated owner of a HD TV who still has Time Warner cable..and just want more options for my HD Viewing..

Sorry for asking the same question over and over again.

Just wish they would throw us out some kind of bone .. like by the end of the year we expect to add another 15 to 20 HD channels to what we have now..

just something.....

First, I'm glad that you were not offended by what I said. Right now I'm going through some tough stuff and I don't want other people angry at me.

I've said it before, if I had the option I would have dumped TW for television ages ago. They do provide good internet. Have you looked at other options?

I'm just stuck with them, and I'm fed up with them. I never met a cable company I liked. Back before Rupert took over D* I had to get my D-TiVo from Pegasus, and they were as bad as a cable company.

Wouldn't it be nice if they asked us what channels in HD we would like? Send an email, and ask us. How hard can that be? But no, they just give us what they want and probably because they can get them cheap. Trust me when it comes to TW, cost is the number 1 issue. Customers are secondary.

Does anyone know what will happen to the low powered OTAs after February? There are some channels that haven't applied for low power digital channels yet, such as WAOH-29 and W35AX-35.

It looks like channel 53 (Daystar) has a construction permit to use channel 7... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1182451.html

WRAP-32 has a construction permit for use of channel 40

WXOX-65 has an application for use of channel 44... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TX1090442.html

LP stations will continue to broadcast analog stations after the digital transition. Our local station seems quite upset about the lack of education on the topic and how some converter boxes are ATSC only.

See this article I just happened across today for our local LP stations:
http://www.wbqc.com/dtv.htm

The "general entertainment" LPs around here - 35/29 in Akron/Cleveland, 52/29 in Canton - have no digital plans filed with the FCC right now. They'll presumably stay in analog after the full-power transition.

45/49 has an analog 58 translator in Youngstown. 58 has a digital CP, but apparently will stay in analog for now. They're probably too busy dealing with their full-power stations.

Looks like sometime in November this may happen (???)

10KW... still may not see this till August.No, according to the FCC filing the 10K transmitter is going on line the day they start using the temporary tower at WKYC! That means within a month or so a few more viewers will finally get a lock on digital ch 26.

It took the sale of the old Brookpark facility to get that extra low power/low tower signal off the air.

Reason why I said next August, untill WVIZ goes fully online with full power, I don't think the 10Kw will reach out here by me... a month it will actually be November for this next step.

Does anyone know what will happen to the low powered OTAs after February? There are some channels that haven't applied for low power digital channels yet, such as WAOH-29 and W35AX-35.

It looks like channel 53 (Daystar) has a construction permit to use channel 7... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1182451.html

WRAP-32 has a construction permit for use of channel 40

WXOX-65 has an application for use of channel 44... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TX1090442.html

Yesterday Morning both 53 & 65 were off the air, although they are on the same tower, I cannot pick up 35 here. :(

LP stations will continue to broadcast analog stations after the digital transition. Our local station seems quite upset about the lack of education on the topic and how some converter boxes are ATSC only.

See this article I just happened across today for our local LP stations:
http://www.wbqc.com/dtv.htm

From the article....

WARNING: MAKE SURE THE CONVERTER BOX THAT YOU BUY HAS AN NTSC TUNER AND AN ATSC TUNER! If you buy any other box you will not get 80% of the TV stations that are broadcasting in the United States! Read the label carefully, a box with both NTSC and ATSC Tuners will say so on the packaging. All other boxes will try to mislead you to buy the bad box by using fancy marketing tactics like "get Digital Television" with this box and etc.

Just remember that you want a box with both an NTSC Tuner and an ATSC Tuner. Keep referring to this website as we will list the good boxes and where to purchase them. Please tell your friends about this scam before they get hurt - even the Geeks at Best Buy do not know about this scam! Buyer beware!

No converter boxes offer the NTSC tuners, just the analog bypass.

I'm getting ready to buy my first HD TV (Samsung LN52A750) and am researching where to get the best HD programming. I took a look at the picture quality of Time Warner's HD locals on a new 46" Sony LCD and was disappointed. I also wasn't a big fan of the 8300HDC DVR...but I'm used to Tivo so I'm a bit jaded. My question is whether the locals look any better on Dish or DirecTV than on TWC. I'm leaning towards Dish because of the better DVR but picture quality is the main concern.

Speaking of new HDTV's what is up with the manufactures making these with the "piano" glossy finish on the cabinets?? they produce a glare, & are easily scratched.

A woman had to have been involved in designing these! :D.... Samsung was the first now all followed. The Satin or flat black finish was the most practical for looks & function.

No, according to the FCC filing the 10K transmitter is going on line the day they start using the temporary tower at WKYC! That means within a month or so a few more viewers will finally get a lock on digital ch 26.

This is happening really soon. It will be interesting to see what the additional height and power does to their footprint. Regardless of when they go to full power, this will be an improvement. And considering what they went through with their prevcious attempts to get on the CBS tower, they deserve a combat medal.

From the article....

WARNING: MAKE SURE THE CONVERTER BOX THAT YOU BUY HAS AN NTSC TUNER AND AN ATSC TUNER! If you buy any other box you will not get 80% of the TV stations that are broadcasting in the United States!


I also want to know where they came up with that 80% figure. If only 20% of the broadcasts are going digital, I'm not sure this transition is worth it ;)

It'll go away soon. I was getting Universal HD until about last week. After the Olympics ended and they nuked USA HD, they left Universal HD on "in the clear". Just noticed it is gone yesterday, along with a few other channels:eek::eek::eek:. It seems TWC is taking channels away and putting them in some $5 extra tier. Stuff like DIY, Fine Living and some of the kids channels.

Interesting. I ran across this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10354008#post10354008)and it indicates that the upper tier has been just the three channels for some amount of time now. Notice the date of the post.

This is the guy who use to know what was going on with Adelphia but he hasn't been around in some time. handsworth.

I also want to know where they came up with that 80% figure. If only 20% of the broadcasts are going digital, I'm not sure this transition is worth it ;)

I think you misread the post, although I agree about the 20%.

WARNING: MAKE SURE THE CONVERTER BOX THAT YOU BUY HAS AN NTSC TUNER AND AN ATSC TUNER! If you buy any other box you will not get 80% of the TV stations that are broadcasting in the United States!

No, according to the FCC filing the 10K transmitter is going on line the day they start using the temporary tower at WKYC! That means within a month or so a few more viewers will finally get a lock on digital ch 26.

It took the sale of the old Brookpark facility to get that extra low power/low tower signal off the air.

It sounds like they have to light up the temporary 10KW ASAP to get off of the now-sold former studio tower holding the STA...then, supposedly, they hope to be on from the new, combined WVIZ/WKYC tower at full-power by sometime in November.

My personal guess is that they're being optimistic, though I haven't gone by the WKYC tower site to see if anything's even started on the facility. I suspect the WVIZ-DT temporary antenna will be uncomplicated, hanging off the side of the existing tower. Of course, they'll have to put a transmitter there, which isn't there now...either their current DT transmitter (if it can go up to that power level) or a new one (going down from the full-power) or something else.

WKYC won't be able to go full-power on the new tower, of course, until WDLI signs off analog 17 in February.

I also want to know where they came up with that 80% figure. If only 20% of the broadcasts are going digital, I'm not sure this transition is worth it ;)

That statement is BS. NONE of the converter boxes actually have an internal NTSC tuner, however some do have an "analog passthrough", that sends antenna signals through to the TVs existing NTSC tuner.

Second, I highly doubt LPTV stations would come up around "80% of broadcasts". I'm not surprised a low power station would inflate these numbers(as they have the most to lose from the transition).

The only LPTV station in NE Ohio I've seen is 29(which also comes on TWC Akron 14). The PQ on cable is atrocious. I was looking forward to these crappy channels going away. No such luck. :(

TWC posted a programming notice: http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/programming/Legal_notices2.html

Nothing really big but it looks like Versus will leave the expanded basic lineup, and move to digital...

The only LPTV station in NE Ohio I've seen is 29(which also comes on TWC Akron 14). The PQ on cable is atrocious. I was looking forward to these crappy channels going away. No such luck. :(

There's a running joke that 29 bought most of its parts as consumer equipment at the Radio Shack across the street from the station.

I'm not so sure it's a joke.

I haven't ever seen 29/35 as anything but a snowy mess OTA - I live about halfway between them - but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not sure TWC has any blame here.

There's a running joke that 29 bought most of its parts as consumer equipment at the Radio Shack across the street from the station.

I'm not so sure it's a joke.

I haven't ever seen 29/35 as anything but a snowy mess OTA - I live about halfway between them - but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not sure TWC has any blame here.

TWC gets the blame for how it is presented. I've found that 29 OTA looks better than TWC 14. It's obvious that TWC gets 29 over the air and they have bad reception. On top of that, the channel comes trough in "digital". TWC takes a poor quality analog signal and bastardizes it into an even worse "digital" channel.

Just like WBNX, I really wish TWC would still pass analog source signals through in analog, rather than "faux digital".

Just like WBNX, I really wish TWC would still pass analog source signals through in analog, rather than "faux digital".

Totally agree!

And how about them Dodgers, huh?:D:D

I mean 10-2 last night at Wrigley! Poor Cubbies. I do feel sorry for them.

NOT!!!!!

Too bad it's on so late but in case you're not aware they are kicking the you know what of the Chicago Cubs (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/ps/y2008/matchup.jsp?series=ds_d) but then again this is the Cubs and they haven't won a World Series in 100 years.:D;) At least the tribe won one about 41 years ago. Been 20 years for the Dodgers. They are due.
After all the Dodgers are a team with a winning history and amazing players.

Now if the Red Sox do their part, I should have an enjoyable World Series in HD. Gotta stay on topic!

I think that the Tribe won the World Series in 1948!
I think that the Tribe totally lost the World Series in 1954.

I remember listening to the winning 1948 game on the radio.
Most of the 1954 games were lost before we got home from school each day.

Tonight, WWE Smackdown officially premiered on My Network TV(after leaving the CW, where it was since September 2006). The CW now has Everybody Hates Chris, The Game and America's Next Top Model on its Friday night lineup. WWE has usually been the highest rated show on the CW. So now, the question is, who will "win" in the ratings? The CW or MNTV?

Also, will losing the WWE finally lead to the demise of the CW? There's already been rumors that the CW was going under.

Which leads to the local TV aspect of this. WUAB used to be a good TV station. They had their own newscast(pre WOIO) as well as the original home of UPN and WB. Along comes WOIO and Raycom. After several years of mismanagement and an awful newscast(19 Action News) as well as horrible programming decisions(dumping primetime programming for infomercials) WUAB is now a joke. A shell of its former self. When the WB and UPN merged to form the CW two years back, the CW affiliation went to WBNX, who is clearly a much better quality station. Even many of WUAB's former syndicated programs went to WBNX(Frasier, Friends). In 2006 WUAB had HD, WBNX did not, but the CW still probably didn't want anything to do with WUAB(who could blame them). The only reason WUAB has the MNTV affiliation today is FOX launched a new network for stations left out by the WB/UPN merger. Although I'm sure even MNTV would rather have ANY other station, if they were available(61, 67, 23, etc).

What do you think? If the CW folds, do you think we'll see a "My55"? WBNX would be left as a crappy independent station:eek:, but they've performed far better than WUAB(or even some of WOIO's newscasts). WBNX has also been one of the highest rated CW and WB stations. Would they really stay independent? Would My Network TV pass up the chance to get away from Raycom/WUAB?

I'll weigh in later.

Just like WBNX, I really wish TWC would still pass analog source signals through in analog, rather than "faux digital".

It's been a long time since I saw 29 on TWC Akron, and we don't get it here in the former Adelphia regions...though the Macedonia ex-Adelphia folks do get it, for some reason.

And I haven't seen anything but a fuzzy, distant OTA picture from them, ever. They're not strong enough here at the house, though I'm using an indoor antenna. I don't think a roof antenna would improve the signal much from my position.

But you're right, of course. Though the digital upconvert actually works on the stations that are fed via fiber, those that are digitized off of OTA analog sources are probably awful.

This all goes away, though, at the transition, no? So we'll have to endure this until mid-February...except for 29 on TWC in Akron, since 29 is not going digital probably before I pass from this mortal coil.

Oh, I finally nabbed data captures from WKYC, WOIO and WVIZ for Trip's project.

Of course, I had to get in my car, run my laptop and USB tuner, and park within sight of the WKYC and the temporary WVIZ towers ;)

And just confirming by the lack of any usable WVIZ-DT signal within sight of the WKYC towers, WVIZ-DT is indeed still pumping out 1,000 watts from that small antenna at the old studio site.

My scouting wasn't scientific, since I was using a USB tuner on the laptop attached to its mag-mount solo whip antenna on the car roof, but the inability to pick up WVIZ-DT down in Seven Hills would tell me they're not there yet ;)

I just finished uploading the data to my website.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=24

WOIO-DT is currently NOT passing TVGOS data. WVIZ-DT is prepared to run UpdateTV.

And WVIZ-DT is doing their subchannels the right way. I wish my local PBS was doing it the way they are. They've got each SD subchannel doing 352x480i with the audio at 128kbps and the video bandwidth capped at 1.2Mbps, and the HD gets almost 14Mbps at full 1080i with 384kbps audio.

- Trip

I missed this, but I'm glad I caught it on a second look.


(from the TWC mailer)
Existing channels that will be delivered using SDV beginning 10/20/08


OK, this helps lead me to some answers.


1 Movieloft


I've never seen the phrase "Movieloft" before. Digital 1 is an on-demand portal here. Is that a holdover phrase TWC only uses in the Akron/Canton systems? We know mnowlin is on the Akron (legacy) system.

Has anyone in the former Adelphia areas gotten this letter? I haven't...


350 CNN
351 Headline News
352 Fox News
354 MSNBC
355 CNBC
370 Weather Channel
(etc. etc.)


This list would indicate to me that they're going to start feeding the "digital cable simulcast" channels (ONLY) via SDV, not the sub-100 analog channels of the same networks.


610 HBO W
611 HBO2 W
612 HBO Signature W
613 HBO Family W
614 HBO Comedy W
615 HBO Zone W


Notice they're only seeding the west coast feeds of HBO via SDV.

This all goes away, though, at the transition, no? So we'll have to endure this until mid-February...except for 29 on TWC in Akron, since 29 is not going digital probably before I pass from this mortal coil.

29 will probably shut down before they go digital, unless Radio Shack has a sale!!;)

I've seen the OTA digital broadcasts of 480i SD channels like WQHS and WOAC. They're beautiful, especially WQHS, which I really like. Lots of hot Latina women on that channel, in clear digital!!! Whether it is OTA or fiber, picture quality will improve for cable after the transition. ALL the 2-13 local channels should be true digital. Also, SD viewers of NBC should be seeing full screen programs again. Currently with the separate SD/HD feeds, NBC showed SD programming in the letterbox format. With the transition coming, you'll notice that bugs and graphics have already been moved to a 4:3 safe position, so SD viewers should be seeing a normal picture again.

I just finished uploading the data to my website.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=24


Glad I was able to help, Trip! Maybe if my car and my laptop are over in Sandusky, I'll grab WGGN for ya. I keep forgetting they're in the market. And of course, there's WMFD in Mansfield. Some day...

WOIO-DT is currently NOT passing TVGOS data. WVIZ-DT is prepared to run UpdateTV.

I was curious when I did the captures...how in the world can you tell from the data, in either case? Point me to a capture of a station elsewhere doing both of those, and I'll check out the links...

I didn't see anything obvious in my capture HTML files.

I missed this, but I'm glad I caught it on a second look.



OK, this helps lead me to some answers.

I've never seen the phrase "Movieloft" before. Digital 1 is an on-demand portal here. Is that a holdover phrase TWC only uses in the Akron/Canton systems? We know mnowlin is on the Akron (legacy) system.

Has anyone in the former Adelphia areas gotten this letter? I haven't...

This list would indicate to me that they're going to start feeding the "digital cable simulcast" channels (ONLY) via SDV, not the sub-100 analog channels of the same networks.

Notice they're only seeding the west coast feeds of HBO via SDV.

I've never seen Movie Loft either. All I've seen is TWONE.

If they begin using SDV versions of the news channels, they will probably show up as digital SDV in both locations, since MSNBC 37 and 354 are both the same physical channel, just mapped to two different locations. That may be what could hold up SDV in Adelphia areas, the fact they do not have digital versions of these channels yet.

29 will probably shut down before they go digital, unless Radio Shack has a sale!!;)

You think I'm kidding about that Radio Shack? Heh...it's in a new plaza on Route 59 just east of Kent, across the parking lot from a new Wal-Mart, and directly, literally, across the street from 29's headquarters (in the WNIR Radio studios).

I hesitate to say "29's studios", because I don't know if they do their local one-camera production talk shows there or not.

It'd take a station employee roughly 5 minutes to walk to the Radio Shack, and 4 minutes of that would be down the station's gravel driveway.

Anyway, after all the full-power OTA analogs go away in February, 29 will be the only station left on TWC feeding via analog.

Tonight, WWE Smackdown officially premiered on My Network TV(after leaving the CW, where it was since September 2006). The CW now has Everybody Hates Chris, The Game and America's Next Top Model on its Friday night lineup. WWE has usually been the highest rated show on the CW. So now, the question is, who will "win" in the ratings? The CW or MNTV?

Everybody Hates Chris has always been on the CW. Before that I believe it may have been Paramont. And with shows like Supernatural and Smallville, I don't see the demise of the CW. Smackdown belongs on MYNTV, not CW.

, will losing the WWE finally lead to the demise of the CW? There's already been rumors that the CW was going under.

What rumors? There is absolutely nothing worth watching on MTVN. Are you still taking your meds?
used to[/I] be a good TV station. They had their own newscast(pre WOIO) as well as the original home of UPN and WB. Along comes WOIO and Raycom. After several years of mismanagement and an awful newscast(19 Action News) as well as horrible programming decisions(dumping primetime programming for infomercials) WUAB is now a joke.

Here we agree. WUAB is a joke. Just turn on channel 19 news at 10.

It does however carry Judge Mathis. I like Judge Mathis.;)

What do you think? If the CW folds, do you think we'll see a "My55"? WBNX would be left as a crappy independent station:eek:, but they've performed far better than WUAB(or even some of WOIO's newscasts). WBNX has also been one of the highest rated CW and WB stations. Would they really stay independent? Would My Network TV pass up the chance to get away from Raycom/WUAB?

I'll weigh in later.

I think the CW has nothing to worry about. Also there are other good programs on the CW. The only complaint I have about the CW is they don't use the rear channels on their 5.1 broadcast. That, I don't understand.

And I prefer TNT for my wrestling on SPIKE TV. I hate the WWE. And nickdawg, where did all of this come from.:confused::confused::confused:

Glad I was able to help, Trip! Maybe if my car and my laptop are over in Sandusky, I'll grab WGGN for ya. I keep forgetting they're in the market. And of course, there's WMFD in Mansfield. Some day...

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS1238366.html

That's their current coverage pattern. I wouldn't worry about it til it powers up, then see if you can get it from Akron, when this map will represent them.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1219934.html

I was curious when I did the captures...how in the world can you tell from the data, in either case? Point me to a capture of a station elsewhere doing both of those, and I'll check out the links...

I didn't see anything obvious in my capture HTML files.

Here's WOIO: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/oh-clv/39746-0_0.htm
Here's WDBJ: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/va-roa/71329-0_0.htm

In the latter, note under the PMT, there are two lines that begin with Stream Type: 0x05. Note that those are named TVG1 and TVG2. Those are TVGOS feeds. WOIO-DT does not have those.

Here's WVIZ: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/oh-clv/18753-0_0.htm

For UpdateTV, there are two extra Programs. Programs 12 and 13 are listed in the PMT. 12 is named BDC0 (Broadcast Data Corporation), and 13 is named ULI0 (Update Logic Inc). The former is the latter's previous name.

- Trip

That's their current coverage pattern. I wouldn't worry about it til it powers up, then see if you can get it from Akron, when this map will represent them.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1219934.html


I had no idea WGGN-DT would put out that much signal. I suppose it makes sense - it's a religious rimshot station, and those stations like to hit as much of the big market as possible (see WDLI-DT's rather expensive and long move from way east of Canton to northwest of Akron).

And thanks for the lesson on reading those outputs. I know TVGOS, but I have no idea what UpdateTV is.

If they begin using SDV versions of the news channels, they will probably show up as digital SDV in both locations, since MSNBC 37 and 354 are both the same physical channel, just mapped to two different locations. That may be what could hold up SDV in Adelphia areas, the fact they do not have digital versions of these channels yet.

Except for one thing, though...I'm wondering if it would make more sense to TWC since CNN, etc. are coming down in analog anyway, to send them on the lower channels in analog...instead of tying up the SDV "slots" with popular channels that are likely to have at least one person watching them all the time.

We'll see how this all plays out!

Everybody Hates Chris has always been on the CW. Before that I believe it may have been Paramont. And with shows like Supernatural and Smallville, I don't see the demise of the CW. Smackdown belongs on MYNTV, not CW.

Smackdown used to be on CBS-Paramount property UPN, which explains why it was originally on the CW(part owned by CBS/Paramount). The WWE did not get picked up thanks to btch president Dawn Ostroff wanting to redefine the target audience to 18-34 year old women. But what would you expect from the former VP of Lifetime;).

What rumors? There is absolutely nothing worth watching on MTVN. Are you still taking your meds?

It's been discussed in the main forums before. Plus this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121089546043097065.html

Here we agree. WUAB is a joke. Just turn on channel 19 news at 10.

It does however carry Judge Mathis. I like Judge Mathis.;)

I like Judge Mathis too. Maybe he will move to WBNX too!:D

I think the CW has nothing to worry about. Also there are other good programs on the CW. The only complaint I have about the CW is they don't use the rear channels on their 5.1 broadcast. That, I don't understand.

And I prefer TNT for my wrestling on SPIKE TV. I hate the WWE. And nickdawg, where did all of this come from.:confused::confused::confused:

Just thought we could use a thought question every now and then.

I had no idea WGGN-DT would put out that much signal. I suppose it makes sense - it's a religious rimshot station, and those stations like to hit as much of the big market as possible (see WDLI-DT's rather expensive and long move from way east of Canton to northwest of Akron).

And thanks for the lesson on reading those outputs. I know TVGOS, but I have no idea what UpdateTV is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV

Glad to help you out with it. =) Is there anything else I can help you with as far as understanding the TSReader output?

- Trip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV

Glad to help you out with it. =) Is there anything else I can help you with as far as understanding the TSReader output?

Nah, aside from wondering why the ones I did for you have so much more information than the other ones you linked. :D

Thank you again!!

I've never seen the phrase "Movieloft" before.

"Movieloft" - noun - The space above your garage that you turn into a HD theater. :)

I like Judge Mathis too. Maybe he will move to WBNX too!:D

Which just goes to show there is good in everybody.:D;)

Just thought we could use a thought question every now and then.

Well, if nobody else wants to talk about it I do. The concept of MYTV wasn't bad in the beginning. It was suppose to consist of shows that would run like a 13 or 20 episodes and then end. The problem is somebody forgot to put the word "quality" into that theory.:rolleyes:

And back then I only had one TiVo so I couldn't record anything anyway. And is anything in HD on WUAB other then 19 Action News at 10? Since I don't watch the WWE is Smackdown in HD?

Here's something else you might find interesting, nickdawg. The wife has discovered the jewlery channel but on the TV she watches sometimes she only has analog. She is asking for digital. If she gets it there may be an SA 8300 in my house again.:eek:

If I can just get a box though I will do that.;)

From the article....
WARNING: MAKE SURE THE CONVERTER BOX THAT YOU BUY HAS AN NTSC TUNER AND AN ATSC TUNER! If you buy any other box you will not get 80% of the TV stations that are broadcasting in the United States! Read the label carefully, a box with both NTSC and ATSC Tuners will say so on the packaging. All other boxes will try to mislead you to buy the bad box by using fancy marketing tactics like "get Digital Television" with this box and etc.

Just remember that you want a box with both an NTSC Tuner and an ATSC Tuner. Keep referring to this website as we will list the good boxes and where to purchase them. Please tell your friends about this scam before they get hurt - even the Geeks at Best Buy do not know about this scam! Buyer beware!

No converter boxes offer the NTSC tuners, just the analog bypass.

Why would you need an NTSC tuner in the box when you already have an NTSC tuner in your analog TV? A pass-through is all that is necessary (unless the user can't find the channel that the atsc converter is on after watching an NTSC channel).

Well, if nobody else wants to talk about it I do. The concept of MYTV wasn't bad in the beginning. It was suppose to consist of shows that would run like a 13 or 20 episodes and then end. The problem is somebody forgot to put the word "quality" into that theory.:rolleyes:

And back then I only had one TiVo so I couldn't record anything anyway. And is anything in HD on WUAB other then 19 Action News at 10? Since I don't watch the WWE is Smackdown in HD?

Yes. All of the WWE properties Smackdown on MNTV, RAW on USA HD and ECW on SCIFI HD all went HD earlier this year. Unfortunately I've only seen two episodes of RAW in HD---those two weeks TWC had USA HD. :mad::mad:

Really. MY Network TV was pathetic at first, and kinda still is. The concept wasn't bad, a new TV network, but their choices of programming is. Their first attempt was showing the telenovelas each night and eventually they would end and be replaced by another one. Now they show cheesy programming that looks like something from syndication, in SD of course. They also show movies that may or may not be HD. Also, the past few weeks they've been showing the new Twilight Zone episodes that were on UPN a few years back, surprisingly they were HD.

If you would have asked me two years ago which network would make it and which one would die, I definitely would have said the CW would be the one that made it. I thought MNTV would be gone in 6 months. Apparently the owner has tons of expendable money to keep a network almost no one watches on the air.

I thought MNTV would be gone in 6 months. Apparently the owner has tons of expendable money to keep a network almost no one watches on the air.

My Network TV is owned by Fox. I doubt it's going anywhere.

- Trip

Here's something else you might find interesting, nickdawg. The wife has discovered the jewlery channel but on the TV she watches sometimes she only has analog. She is asking for digital. If she gets it there may be an SA 8300 in my house again.:eek:

If I can just get a box though I will do that.;)

Which jewelry channel is it? QVC? Shop NBC? JWLTV?

Enjoy the new 8300HD :p Crazy thought, maybe TWC will change their minds and give EVERYONE in NE Ohio Passport. I could see hookbill kicking Tivo out then. :D Then it could be like those commercials with the mop in the bushes outside while the Mariachi band plays.

My Network TV is owned by Fox. I doubt it's going anywhere.

- Trip

Rupert Murdock owns FOX. If it's a loser, he will get rid of it.

Which jewelry channel is it? QVC? Shop NBC? JWLTV?

Enjoy the new 8300HD :p Crazy thought, maybe TWC will change their minds and give EVERYONE in NE Ohio Passport. I could see hookbill kicking Tivo out then. :D Then it could be like those commercials with the mop in the bushes outside while the Mariachi band plays.

Fortunately she told me she doesn't want it. Good thing, I've run out of rope and the only way I take those things back is by tying them to the back of my car and dragging them in.:p:D

My Network TV is owned by Fox. I doubt it's going anywhere.

- Trip

While you're here, I have those answers to the My Network TV distribution questions you posted earlier in the subchannel discussion.

My Network TV doesn't use the FOX splicer system, only FOX does. MNTV sends down a high bitrate feed for the local station to re-encode, like the other networks. My Network TV also doesn't have the "ghost subchannel" taken out at the source, like FOX.

If a subchannel(or two) were added, the PQ could be affected. Since it's 720p, the effect of the subchannel wouldn't be as bad as a 1080i channel(like WOIO CBS).

Rupert Murdock owns FOX. If it's a loser, he will get rid of it.

Rupert (ARRRR) Murdoch is a loser!!! He should get rid of himself!!! :D:D

While you're here, I have those answers to the My Network TV distribution questions you posted earlier in the subchannel discussion.

My Network TV doesn't use the FOX splicer system, only FOX does. MNTV sends down a high bitrate feed for the local station to re-encode, like the other networks. My Network TV also doesn't have the "ghost subchannel" taken out at the source, like FOX.

If a subchannel(or two) were added, the PQ could be affected. Since it's 720p, the effect of the subchannel wouldn't be as bad as a 1080i channel(like WOIO CBS).

Thanks, that's interesting stuff. I wonder why they didn't use the splicer for it, you'd think they would have.

- Trip

can anyone here tell me what all channels it would come with in hd. Im really just wanting to know if I will get DiscoveryHD so i can watch mythbusters and dirty jobs.. Thanks

I wonder how this thread suddenly jumped into the "Programing Forum" ?

can anyone here tell me what all channels it would come with in hd. Im really just wanting to know if I will get DiscoveryHD so i can watch mythbusters and dirty jobs.. Thanks

First, welcome to the forum. Line ups are available if you go to the TWNEO (http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/) web site. You will have to navigate it on your own, it's not that difficult.;)

Edited to add: Another way to see what's actually on Discovery HD is to go to zap2it.com and say you have TW cable use your zip code and choose "digital rebuild". Discovery HD does not carry the same programming as regular Discovery channel.

Speedskater, I don't understand what you mean. Can you clairfy?

This thread should be in the Local HD forum but it jumped to the HDTV Programming forum for some reason.

This thread should be in the Local HD forum but it jumped to the HDTV Programming forum for some reason.

You're right! I didn't even realize it. When did this happen?

This has to be an accident of some sort. When I did a search in the Local HD Forum this comes up but it does show HDTV Programming.

I'll ask Mr. Bott. Perhaps he will explain. If he will speak to me that is.

You're right! I didn't even realize it. When did this happen?

This has to be an accident of some sort. When I did a search in the Local HD Forum this comes up but it does show HDTV Programming.

I'll ask Mr. Bott. Perhaps he will explain. If he will speak to me that is.

Hook, I just got done speking with him via PM a few minutes ago regarding a different matter. If you PM him right now, you may get an immediate response. ...and if not, I'm sure in due time he will get back with you.

Hook, I just got done speking with him via PM a few minutes ago regarding a different matter. If you PM him right now, you may get an immediate response. ...and if not, I'm sure in due time he will get back with you.

We're back in the right spot. Here's what he said:

Hi..

Looks like some house keeping was being done with some thread merging and it ended up where it did. I have moved it back to the local section.

David
__________________
David Bott
AVS Forum Admin

We're back in the right spot. Here's what he said:


Given your history, especially elsewhere, I'm surprised he answered. :D

can anyone here tell me what all channels it would come with in hd. Im really just wanting to know if I will get DiscoveryHD so i can watch mythbusters and dirty jobs.. Thanks

Hi Brad,

Another Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs fan here! There are two different Discovery HD servcices. The one that's called Discovery-HD carries those shows, but that channel isn't carried on TWC yet. The other channel (the one that's carried on TWC) used to be called Discovery HD Theater, and they changed the name to simply "Theater." (This was Discovery's decision, not TWC's.) Anyway, the Theater channel carries different programming from regular Discovery fare, geared more towards HD beauty shots of the outdoors.

BTW, ever wondered where the Mythbusters theme came from? Listen to ZZ-Top's "Legs" and you'll hear a very familiar riff. :)

Given your history, especially elsewhere, I'm surprised he answered. :D

He's talked to me before. When I left TCF, and I want to be clear about this I did not really get kicked out. What happened however was I had received a one day suspension and then two days later got another for like 3 days.

I could not find anything I had done wrong to warrant the second suspension, and since I don't like to be bullied I sent David a not so nice letter. Let's just say I called him a few names and told me why wait, boot me now.

Since then I have apologized to him for the personal comments I made. I now realize that the person who probably got me booted goes in this forum under the name of magnani, like in maggot. Now what I think happened was he was launching personal attacks at me and I turned him in and he got the boot. That's why I say do a search at TCF and you will see that almost every post he made was a negative post towards me.

Since then he has snuck back in to the TiVo forum as "sooka" and his soul mission is to try to find out who I am, which he never does but he thinks he finds me. He has also attacked me here. Run a search on the TiVo thread using his name that he had in the TiVo Forum, magnani and you will see him there lying about me being booted 5 times out of TCF.

He stalks me and you will notice even though he only has 10 post it always has something to do with hookbill. Same thing in the TiVo Forum, he finds people he thinks are me and then has them kicked. Only in the TiVo Forum they don't realize that he is actually the one that was kicked.

Magnani is no longer an active name in the TiVo Forum. Just here.

Anyway, he's been warned that I will indeed get a private investigator and find out who he is and try and have him criminally prosecuted if he continues. I haven't heard from him since, but more then likely he won't take me seriously.

He's dead wrong. At the very least he has committed deformation of character and when I find him I'll either sue him in civil court or have him prosecuted for stocking.