Originally posted by Shark73
I'm shocked! I thought the Sensor was only UHF?

That's what the box says, but I have been able to recieve all the DTV locals OTA including VHF with it. It depends on your location, though, I wouldn't call it 100% reliable with weather conditions, phases of the moon, etc., but it can be done. I was going to rig up an outdoor window mount for the little thing (and just spend $20 every couple years replacing it because it's not outdoor) but then cable started HD service right about that time, so I went with cable.

I don't know if I can swing another $13/month on my cable bill. I also don't want to buy another HDTV tuner since i just spent $300 on the MyHD! ESPN and Discovery don't interest me, only prime time broadcast shows.

So what's wrong with the Terk antennas? I just looked one up and well... they're cute. Nice size. Anything else "like" those but is recommended?

Robert

Originally posted by Valnar
I don't know if I can swing another $13/month on my cable bill. I also don't want to buy another HDTV tuner since i just spent $300 on the MyHD! ESPN and Discovery don't interest me, only prime time broadcast shows.

So what's wrong with the Terk antennas? I just looked up up and well... they're cute. Nice size. Anything else "like" those but is recommended?

Robert

You can get the regular SA3250HD box from WOW for $6.99/mo. (it's only $3 more than the standard digital cable box if you're going to be swapping the old box for the HD box) Since it sounds like you only want the local HD stations, then I think you would not have any additional costs. I think you only have to pay for the HD Pak ($9.99/mo?) if you want DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, HDNet.

Re Terk stuff, you can do an AVS forum search for Terk and you'll read a lot of debate over their products, more negative than positive. I've tried some of their gizmos myself and wasn't impressed. Like the long outdoor "bar" antenna that mounts flat against the wall and doesn't look horribly ugly. Problem is it seemed highly directional and didn't pick up any station particularly well.

Can I use the MyHD card with the WOW service? Or do I need QAM?

I don't have the WOW digital box now, so it would be an upgrade.

Re Terk stuff, you can do an AVS forum search for Terk and you'll read a lot of debate over their products, more negative than positive. I've tried some of their gizmos myself and wasn't impressed. Like the long outdoor "bar" antenna that mounts flat against the wall and doesn't look horribly ugly. Problem is it seemed highly directional and didn't pick up any station particularly well.

How about the Zenith ZHD-TV1 antennas?

Robert

Can I use the MyHD card with the WOW service? Or do I need QAM?

You need QAM, and even if you had that, I'll bet there is not a 100% guarantee that it works with the cable company. The cableco should be sending ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX HD locals unencrypted "in the clear", but I've read reports with other cablecos that this is not always the case. Here's a QAM capable card:

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/fusion3qam.asp

but you should probably ask the experts on the HTPC forum here.


How about the Zenith ZHD-TV1 antennas?

Yes, this is the one, what is commonly called the "Silver Sensor"...

Hey Paule123,
Since I want to pick up NBC, I know I need a VHF/UHF antenna. This lead me to the Radio Shack 15-1880 which apparently does it all. It's amplified, but I don't know if I need that.

My web searching in the last hour also led me to Antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org). Apparently, I am only 5-7 miles away from the transmitters for NBC, CBS and ABC in Cleveland! I think Parma has a tower, which is where everything is broadcast from.

That being said, I don't think I need an amplified antenna. So what's a good choice that does up to 10-15 miles max? If it could do FM, that would be nice. I'm still leaning towards the RS 15-1880, but it might be overkill.

Robert

Originally posted by Valnar
Hey Paule123,
Since I want to pick up NBC, I know I need a VHF/UHF antenna. This lead me to the Radio Shack 15-1880 which apparently does it all. It's amplified, but I don't know if I need that.

You could give this one a try and always return it if it doesn't work... I dunno - I don't think there's a lot of HDTV OTA success stories around here with indoor "rabbit ears" style antennas... The amplifiers on these are gimmicks... Seems like a lot of people struggle even getting a big antenna in the attic to work let alone something like this... Stories from other Clevelanders about the DTV stations being underpowered or flaky make the situation even more difficult.

I've got a DirecTV Hughes HTL-HD box at work that supposedly does QAM cable... I'm going to take it home tonight and see if it works with the WOW local HD channels. If so, you might think about exchanging that MyHD card out for the Fusion QAM model...

-- Paul

you might think about exchanging that MyHD card out for the Fusion QAM model...

Perhaps, but I could never get Powerstrip and my Radeon to work right. This thing supposedly is as compatible as any 1080i component video STB, so I'm looking forward to plug and play. The fact it upconverts my DVD's to 1080i as well sold me.

Robert

I don't have that Radio Shack model, but I do have a different radio shack indoor antenna with rabbit ears. It works very well, but I can't get NBC at all. I used to get NBC once in a while, but when I got the HD TiVo I lost the signal completely. I'm 8-10 miles from the towers.

Jim

Anybody know of a "petition" to have WKYC move their DTV signal to a UHF frequency?

-Robert

Originally posted by Valnar
Anybody know of a "petition" to have WKYC move their DTV signal to a UHF frequency?

-Robert

That'll happen when hell freezes over, LOL. WKYC has told us they are multicasting (and therefore transmitting an inferior HD image) "for good business reasons", so why would you think they'd change over a whole transmitter for us, the viewing public?

And don't bother writing to the FCC, I already did that (re multicasting). The dolts there are clueless about DTV and only capable of form-letter replies.

I guess I was fortunate that I moved to N Royalton about 4 years ago, just below Parma. We'll see if any of the cheapo Radio Shack antennas will work for me. If not, I'll be back here.

Thanks for everyone's replies.

Robert

I will soon be moving into a condo in Westlake. I have had DirecTV for some years but the new place limits my placing of a disc only on my patio. That is at ground level and there looks to be a tree problem. The complex is serviced (?) by Adelphia and I have been assured by them that HD is available there (just north of the Promenade Shopping Center). It looks like the complex has no exterior TV antenna. Not sure. I am thinking of going to Adelphia since they at least have two Cleveland HD channels. DirecTV has been frustrating for most of this year with so many thunderstorms breaking up or blocking out signals. It had never been a big problem in the past.

I have been trying to learn something about the pricing of Adelphia packages but with little luck. Does anyone know how they price the HD programing? The Adelphia website avoids any specifics. I would like to hear from from Adelphia customers about the HD packages, pricing, etc.

thanks

Originally posted by ccchaney
the new place limits my placing of a disc only on my patio.

FWIW, there is a federal law (FCC) that allows you to install your antenna/dish anywhere on the property under your control regardless of what the HOA says...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

I am generally familiar with the federal. Armond Budish wrote an aritcle on it in July in the Plain Dealer although I had read an overview elsewhere. In my case the patio (the units above have a balcony in this area) is the only place a dish could be placed. Even then, I cannot attach it to the wall since that is considered "common" property. Neither can the dish extend beyond the area of the patio. Exterior walls, grounds, walkways and roofs are considered common areas under the control of the landlord or condo association. This applies also to an external TV antenna. Since my patio is on the west side north of the southwest corner of the building and antenna would be useless.

In general, I think I can live with cable as long as I have reasonable HD content. The Adelphia spokesman assured me that it was, naming not only the condo address but unit number. At least, WKYC-HD and WEWS-HD will be available. I will miss 19-1 but its audio has been a continuous problem so I can live without the aggravation. I will certainly miss any other local HD signals as they appear, especially PBS. I can only hope that Adelphia may pick some of them up in the future.

thanks

With the addition of InHD and InHD2, I am VERY pleased with Adelphia's offerings. Sure, I'd like CBS, but that's to come someday ... I have HBO and HDNet and HDNetMovies as well. The amazing thing with my Sony XBR is that the SD Digital broadcasts are strikingly clear and ALMOST of HD quality.

FWIW, CBS from Adelphia has been mentioned as "real soon now" since before the Super Bowl. We've also been told that Fox should be available close to their HD live date, although I'll believe THAT when I see it too.
Finally, if you have WOW as an alternative cable company, you might want to check with them too, as they already have CBS and Fox. They don't have total Cleveland area coverage, plus your area has to be wired for them. http://www.wideopenwest.com

Finally, if you have WOW as an alternative cable company, you might want to check with them too...
I agree. (OT post forthcoming)

FWIW, my dealing with Wide Open West has been superb. Their analog picture compared to Adelphia is great and I have not seen a better cable modem service. I was one of the beta testers for Roadrunner in Akron back in the mid 90's and had Roadrunner until 2000, before moving to North Royalton, where we have both Adelphia and WOW choices. Of all three, WOW has been my favorite. I don't know if Adelphia still limits their uploads to 128K, but having 300K upload with WOW makes a big difference, even if you don't need it.

-Robert

I just got my HD setup today and Im AMAZED at how the Olympics look in HD. So far so good with receiving 3.1 for me here in Brooklyn Hts. I upgraded my Directv equiptment to HD and they gave me the SIR-TS360 Samsung box as Im in an OTA area I also took them up on the Weingard OTA antenna. I receive 3, 5, 19, and 61 thru the antenna. BTW was is the golf in HD this weekend on CBS?!! Wasnt sure then again couldve been my fault for screwing with the settings too much...lol..

Yes the golf was supposed to be HD (although I wouldn't be able to verify it since I don't have CBS HD!)

The golf was not in HD this weekend. CBS changed the schedule on us at the last minute.

Originally posted by intermod
WVIZ-HD is on!!!!

From the brookpark rd. studio. 26.1 only, I dont see any multicasting.
Looks like they are low power and of course the antenna is in a hole.

Dan
They have special FCC temporary authority to operate at 1kW ERP from the studio location on Brookpark Rd. Haven't been able to pick them up in Medina, but at least I have 46-1 in Akron for PBS HD now.

I've been trying to pull in WVIZ out here in South Russell, but without the slightest success. There isn't even a hint of a signal on channel 26. The screen stays blank, and the signal strength meter just sits at zero.

I'm getting the Akron station in, but with a LOT of dropouts. I tried adding a second antenna (a Silver Sensor) pointed at them in my attic, but it didn't help at all.

I guess I'll just have to wait until Adelphia adds one or both of them to the lineup.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
I've been trying to pull in WVIZ out here in South Russell, but without the slightest success. There isn't even a hint of a signal on channel 26. The screen stays blank, and the signal strength meter just sits at zero.

I'm getting the Akron station in, but with a LOT of dropouts. I tried adding a second antenna (a Silver Sensor) pointed at them in my attic, but it didn't help at all.

I guess I'll just have to wait until Adelphia adds one or both of them to the lineup.

I can't get WVIZ 26 in Shaker either, nothing, nada.

I get Akron PBS 46 HD fine with the Silver Sensor. Haven't been too impressed with 46's HD content - when I do see it, it seems to have strange PQ problems like 480i scenes and 1080i scenes in the same film/program. I just shrug and figure maybe that's the way the Brits do it, or that it's older material, or it's 46's growing pains/and/or multicasting...

DiscoveryHD still rules.

Originally posted by Valnar
My only HDTV tuner is the MyHD MDP-120 which is coming for my HTPC. I assume I need something that does QAM to receive HDTV over cable? If not, then I'll spend the $6 and get it through my cable, so long as I can use this PCI card. I have Wide Open West in North Royalton.


Robert,
I took the Hughes HTL-HD home over the weekend and hooked it up to WOW cable. Unfortunately the HTL-HD has no option for it, just analog cable channels 1-135. I thought it did QAM because it's listed in the specs at American Satellite and other retailers. When I asked on another thread about this, the theory goes that Hughes may have crippled QAM in the box, one would assume because it competes with their service.

So, I can't give you a definitive answer on whether a QAM enabled card will work with WOW...

-- Paul

Is anyone getting WKYC's radar channel 3-3? Looks like they turned it off, as 3-1 and 3-2 are coming in great for me (at least as far as WKYC is concerned) but 3-3 is nowhere to be found.

I hope that it's just a temporary thing for the olympics. My wife, the radar junkie, would be upset if it went away. That's been the only thing she sees any real benefit in for going digital. :)

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Is anyone getting WKYC's radar channel 3-3? Looks like they turned it off, as 3-1 and 3-2 are coming in great for me (at least as far as WKYC is concerned) but 3-3 is nowhere to be found.

I hope that it's just a temporary thing for the olympics. My wife, the radar junkie, would be upset if it went away. That's been the only thing she sees any real benefit in for going digital. :)

Same here, no 3-3. Although 3-1 has worked better this past week than ever. It sure seems like they're fiddling with things (bandwidth reshuffle) for the Olympics. I'm pleased 3-1 is working but I want doppler too.

Yesterday 8-1 was nonexistent. What happened there? It used to be one of the strongest signals.

Fox was on last night. I know they have been testing the HD demo loop.

Anyone have an update as to when WBNX will be transmitting in HDTV? What is the speculated reason it has taken so long? I have read old posts from 2002 which stated they would start transmitting in DTV "soon".

I think WBNX is battling with the FCC and Canada over their digital transmission. Not sure exactly what the problem is. But Canada Sucks. I've emailed them maybe 3 times and got one response well over a year ago. Who knows.

WBNX-DT ?

I think it's a "Line A" thing.

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/maps/canline/linea.html

Line "A" thing, what they haven't been able to draw a line on a map since 1965?

Regarding 8-1 how strong has their signal been?? Since I got my set up on Saturday Ive not been able to receive it. (Plenty of signal breakups...etc) Same with 43-1 I dont mind not getting 43-1 as much tho and I can wait on FOX8 since I live in an O&O and Directv is rumored to be doing a CBS-HD like deal with FOX.

Hey DCSholtis,

Welcome to the forum, Channel 8-1 (31) has been solid for a long time.
Am I thinking ther right place, down there by the cemetary off broadview?

Dan

Originally posted by intermod
Hey DCSholtis,

Welcome to the forum, Channel 8-1 (31) has been solid for a long time.
Am I thinking ther right place, down there by the cemetary off broadview?

Dan
WJW transmitter site is at State & Pleasant Valley Rd. in Parma. Same site location since the station went on the air as WXEL channel 9 in the late 40s.

Originally posted by paule123
I can't get WVIZ 26 in Shaker either, nothing, nada.

I get Akron PBS 46 HD fine with the Silver Sensor. Haven't been too impressed with 46's HD content - when I do see it, it seems to have strange PQ problems like 480i scenes and 1080i scenes in the same film/program. I just shrug and figure maybe that's the way the Brits do it, or that it's older material, or it's 46's growing pains/and/or multicasting...

DiscoveryHD still rules.
I agree that 46's HD programming content is lacking. Macroblocking is likely due to the fact that they also have SD programming on 46-2. This deficiency, also seen with olympics HD programming on 3-1, makes a strong case for having no other subchannels when carrying HD.

Pretty hot tropo opening right now. 18:27 EDT 24-aug
Just about every channel above 15 or so has something on it.

Dan

Has anyone had any luck receiving Cleveland HD chanels from the Canton area.If so, what antenna are you using.

Thanks

pupper, I'm in SW Portage Co about 5 miles north of Hartville. I get most of the stations most of the time but 3-1 and 19-1 struggle especially at night. I have a Channel Master in my attic which is technically the "3rd" floor.

Pupper,

I have picked up 17-1 WDLI in digital mode . All in all I have to say that the analog signals have better range, at least with my ChannelMaster UHF/VHF
66" Yagi. It does not preform well on UHF or VHF. I think its a 3018 but CM changed thier numbers.. in any event it is on a 66" boom.

After about 18 months of having the antenna in my attic, all I can say is save yourself the risk of injury and just put it in the basement.

I always had the feeling that my set was "Deaf" with the antenna in the attic. Now I know my antenna is a POS. I also have concerns regarding that crap RG6 they sell at Home Depot so I have a nice spool of RG11 to try(maybe this weekend !)

I also want to get a Long Yagi just for UHF, something on 10 or 12' boom
stacked on top of the channelmaster.

There was a pretty hot tropo opening this afternoon, thats when you miss a big Yagi on the roof.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Dan

I live in Jackson Township near the high school, I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna (a UHF only antenna) mounted in my attic and receive WEWS (ABC), WJW (FOX), WOIO (CBS), WUAB (UPN), WEAO (PBS), WDLI (TBN) and WQHS (Univision). The antenna is pointed towards the Cleveland stations, the reception on all of these stations is consistant with very rare drop outs. I couldn't get WKYC (a low-VHF station) at all, even when I had a VHF antenna mounted in the attic.

When I point the antenna towards Youngstown, I can receive WNEO (PBS), WFMJ (NBC) and WYTV (ABC with Dolby 5.1).

As you see ABC, NBC, CBS, UPN, FOX, TBN, Univision and PBS DTV reception is possible in Canton. Only the WB network is missing from the major and minor OTA networks.

On a side note: WBNX (WB) where are you?

Tony

I also live in the Jackson township behind the Jackson high school in the Coventry hills development.

I would like to see your setup if you do not mind and also get some help as to how to setup the equipment. If i cannot see your setup can I talk to you maybe over the phone and get some help. I will appreciate any input in the matter


Thanks

Vivek

I drove by WVIZ on brookpark rd this AM to eyeball the channel 25.1(26) antenna. I am not familiar with the TV transmission end but it looks like some sort of co-linear. Its on a short (<50) foot tower with some pretty good size
heliax feeding it. I'll grab my camera and catch a pix of it after lunch.

Dan

Does the wkyc olympic picture look too pixilated on your sets for those with comcast?

It is much better OTA for me. Do I just have a bad cable signal?

I am east of Mentor in Concord TWP. WKYC 3.3 has been off the air since the Olympics started. WJW 8.1 has been bad this week. Are they doing something to their transmitter?? 26.1 does not come in at all..

I am east of Mentor in Concord TWP. WKYC 3.3 has been off the air since the Olympics started. WJW 8.1 has been bad this week. Are they doing something to their transmitter?? 26.1 does not come in at all..

Originally posted by jtighe
26.1 does not come in at all..

I couldn't see anything about HD programming schedule on WVIZ's website, so I would assume it's too early in the testing phase for it to be watchable... WVIZ still shows a DTV update from June 2003 on the site...

Speaking of WKYC, did anyone catch the Browns preseason game last Saturday? If you checked out 3-2 during the game you would have seen a really *bad* SD 4:3 overcompressed version of the SD 4:3 game on 3-1. I have no idea what they were doing/thinking there...

Here is the pix of WVIZ's channel 26 Antenna.

I'm guessing line of sight for this thing has to be south to the crest of state rd. hill, West to the bump along brookpark rd by Ridge, North to the rise on
w25th by Brooklyn Hgts cemmetary and east to 98th st. in Garfield. I think back in the mid 70's when WIXY 1260 AM built the new site out on miller rd.
there was some issue about letting the construction permit/Modification to the license, expire if a signal was not on within "X" amount of time. Maybe thats
why they persued this .

Anyway, I'm glad they did and I'm sure 30 or 40 other people are too.

Steve B.,


Originally posted by Steve B
Does the wkyc Olympic picture look too pixilated on your sets for those with comcast?

It is much better OTA for me. Do I just have a bad cable signal?

I just got Comcast HD connected last Friday and I was surprised to see My OTA via Dish 6000 receiver had fewer drop-outs and pixalations than the Comcast WKYC channel. I live in Mentor. Comcast gave me a Motorola HD receiver with built in HD DVR. I've been having fun with the DVR. It looks and works great. I've never had a DVR before so it does not take much to impress me here. As I understand it TiVo has many more features that these Motorola units are lacking. I will probably finally drop the Dish since my wive needs the high speed modem for work. I loose a bit on the channel line up but I can still use my Dish 6000 for OTA reception even though I will no longer get any of the Dish channels.

Ray

Originally posted by paule123

Speaking of WKYC, did anyone catch the Browns preseason game last Saturday? If you checked out 3-2 during the game you would have seen a really *bad* SD 4:3 overcompressed version of the SD 4:3 game on 3-1. I have no idea what they were doing/thinking there...
Given the terrible macroblocking on the olympics HD feed on 3-1 early on, I suspect they may have reduced the bandwidth of 3-2 to improve 3-1. It seems to be a little better than before. They also shut off the weather radar on 3-3, but that won't save much bandwidth.

Originally posted by techweb
Given the terrible macroblocking on the olympics HD feed on 3-1 early on, I suspect they may have reduced the bandwidth of 3-2 to improve 3-1.

Must be that "good business decision" doesn't involve providing any type of quality picture.

Adelphia really needs to step up and add CBS and FOX before the football season starts.

Anyone have an update?

Anyone in Westlake or on the west side having problems picking
up WKYC or WOIO? I've tried three different antenna
(a Silver Sensor, a Radio Shack UHF/VHF amplified indoor antenna, and the Channel Master 4228)... I can get almost all of the UHF channels, but never get above 5% on either WKYC or WOIO.

I live in a condo, and I've thought about getting an outdoor antenna. Is the Stealthtenna any good? Or the Terk TV55? Or should I just get a big old yagi-style and mount the ugly thing on my balcony?

Im in Westlake, havnt been able to pick up WKYC since puting up my new antenna. WOIO is sometimes difficult, but a quick twist gives solid signal strength.

Get a big a$$ antenna. Its worth it. 150" minimum.

Below is text taken from a Feb 2004 response by a WBNX engineering consultant regarding a Dec 18th 2003 letter from the FCC to WBNX

DTV Allocation Considerations - International
The purpose of the instant application is to resolve predicted WBNX-DT interference
contour overlap with the service contour of a co-channel DTV allotment in Paris, Ontario,
Canada. According to the December 18, 2003 FCC letter, WBNX-DT must eliminate the
overlap.

So it seems there is a concern about interference with a Candian DTV station and WBNX has modified its radiation pattern to resolve this problem. They are awaiting a FCC response to the proposal.

Originally posted by sohr
I live in a condo, and I've thought about getting an outdoor antenna. Is the Stealthtenna any good? Or the Terk TV55? Or should I just get a big old yagi-style and mount the ugly thing on my balcony?
From my experience, the stealth antenna with optional built-in preamp works decently on UHF, is somewhat usable on the high VHF band, but almost worthless on the low VHF band. That would seem to rule it out for either WKYC or WOIO at your location.

Ray,

I watched Olympic basketball and soccer tonight and think I have figured out the difference. The OTA signal is 1080i and I have the Motorla set to 720p. I think the pixilization is due to the conversion from 1080i to 720p. ESPND is 720p native and I see NO artifacts on cable.

I also noted the same artifact OTA (Macroblocking), just not as noticeable - so they seem to be amplified by the conversion. No surprise there. I don't remember the same problems with 1080i for the superbowl, but maybe I am more critical now, or as Techweb supposes, the 2-2 feed took too much bandwidth. Still kind of cool to be able to flip to 2-2 to see the current content. Hopefully by the next winter olympics it just won't be an issue.

In any case, it all looks awesome and the INHD stuff is nothing short of phenomenal.

Steve

PS Ray, thanks to you, I found out that Comcast has HD PVR available. They are supposed to bring me one this week! I learn something every time I come on this Forum.

PSS; Techweb, I also learned the pixil break up is called Macroblocking.

Does anyone know of an inexpensive, but good professional antenna installer on the west side? I need an antenna mounted on my roof with RG6 run to my basement... slinked through the existing walls I imagine. (?)

I did a lot of my own RG6 and CAT5 wiring in my house when it was built, but that was before the builders put the drywall up. I'm not handy enough to figure it out now, and I never anticipated ever needing a roof antenna years ago.

Robert

Whats your price I'll do it. :)

Anybody watching MNF OTA tonight? I'm watching through Adelphia. The best word I can use to describe the picture quality is "dull". There's a lot of pixelation, colors seem washed out, and the overall presentation just seems below average.

Looks the same over the air, like looking through fog.

Dan

Looks pretty good on both Adelphia and OTA. It's not as sharp as CBS, but the game this weekend was way to hot as far as the whites are concerned.

I thought the ESPN USC-VA Tech game Saturday night was one of the best HD presentations I have ever seen, which probably means my expectations are too high!

I agree the USC-VaTech game did look very good. One of the best by ESPN in a while.

Looks like we won't be seeing Jacobs Field in HD on Sunday night. Anaheim's in town and Titan TV shows it in HD, but ESPN's HD schedule doesn't show the game. Last Sunday's game wasn't in HD either. It looks like they've switched in their college football HD mode (three games this Saturday!)

Valnar,

Stewarts in Eylria installed my equipment I even purchased everything but the brackets from others, they are really very good.

Does anyone have any adelphia updates concerning CBS or Fox and has the the software on the hd dvr been updated yet?

For the record, I am very pleased with the service Adelphia is offering, I wasn't sure if I would be but I think its time I sell my Direct equpment, I am not going back in the short term.

John

Thanks Cristo.

Edit: I just called Stewarts. They say they don't install antennas. :confused:

I just exchanged emails this morning with engineering at WVIZ. Very friendly and helpful. He told me the following:

- WVIZ-DT has been up since Aug 16th, 24 hours a day. It is at a lower power and terrain will be the limiting factor in reception.

- The main transmitter will not be ready until Spring or Summer 2005

- They are actively working with Adelphia, Cox, Time Warner and Conneaut Cable on carriage of the HD channel. He said by all means contact your cable company and request WVIZ-DT, the more interest the better. (I sent my Wide Open West Cleveland guy an email about WVIZ and they are "working on it")

- He had reports from Cleveland Heights (I'm in Shaker) about intermittent pick up of the signal. Let them know about successes you may have in receiving the signal. E-mail: engineering@wviz.org

- Hopefully the website will be updated soon with current DTV programming info since I reminded them about it being a year old... :D

-- Paul

I know I am not the only one with this problem. I have three video sources with component outputs and two component inputs. Does anyone have a recommendation for a basic, quality A/B switch that also handles the digital audio?

Yes, it's called a receiver :)

Originally posted by egman
I know I am not the only one with this problem. I have three video sources with component outputs and two component inputs. Does anyone have a recommendation for a basic, quality A/B switch that also handles the digital audio?

I've seen others on AVSForum talk about this one:
http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/1154c5577.html

more here as well:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433334

RADAR Back on 2.3, Cant be sure but it sounds like the 5.1 is off.

Oh well, ya lose some, and lose some more.

Dan

EDIT: Now it sounds like 5.1 is on,

I noticed both Time Warner's Programming Guide and TitanTV.com have "off the air" for any non-network programming on 3.1. Weird.

I suspect that WKYC's lack of Radar lately is due to the olympics. It was probably too hard to run three distinct feeds (a digital version of analog 3, the HD olympics, and radar). Normally, I would suspect 3.2 is just a thunked-down rebroadcast of 3.1. As I am awaiting the HD DVR from Time Warner to give up my SD DVR (ie HD TV w/o HD tuner), I like the higher PQ I get from the non-HD digital signal over the analog signal. [ducks from tomatoes] After seeing what over-multi-casting can do, I'd rather have live radar over a duplicate feed. Of course, I'd also prefer Klinger over Radar, but that's a different Radar. :)

For all those who receive 3-1 (ota) - does your HD tuner's DD(5.1) symbol light up in the guide banner?

Fox's digital channel is now available on Adelphia, at least here in the Cleveland area. It appeared today.

:D FOX HD is now available on Adelphia 708

Ha-Ha! I won...

(Ok, I'll be the first to ask: what about CBS and WVIZ? :p Don't you love when people ask for more when they just got something?)

Originally posted by handsworth
:D FOX HD is now available on Adelphia 708

Technically speaking it's still not Fox HD! :D

Originally posted by Shark73
Technically speaking it's still not Fox HD! :D

I checked my channel after getting home and 708 is broadcast in 720p. Is this not HD just as ESPN HD?. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Its not HD because while the local affiliates are sending out 720p. it is an upconverted 480p or 480i signal. It will be HD on Sunday Sept 12.

Originally posted by handsworth
I checked my channel after getting home and 708 is broadcast in 720p. Is this not HD just as ESPN HD?. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Fox has been sending a 720p signal, but the new splicer was not online yet. As of last night the splicer was still not online.

However, after getting home tonight, it looks like the splicer is online tonight due to the new channel bug. Looks like we are set for HD now.

edit: The splicer is online tonight. We have a new logo bug and 5.1 sound.

I'm thinking of getting the LG LST-3510A HDTuner/DVD player.
It includes QAM capability.
Does anyone know if I can pick up the Cox Cable HD channels with this unit?
I'm not interested in getting HBO;Showtime or Discovery HD.

Originally posted by PPS
I'm thinking of getting the LG LST-3510A HDTuner/DVD player.
It includes QAM capability.
Does anyone know if I can pick up the Cox Cable HD channels with this unit?
I'm not interested in getting HBO;Showtime or Discovery HD.

PPS:

I've got one of these boxes. I don't know about Cox, but on Adelphia I can receive all the local channels they carry, as well as the music channels. I get more channels OTA than with the cable, so that's how I have mine set up.

I bought the LG because I wanted a DVD player that would upscale to 720p and output to my Samsung DLP via DVI. The DVDs look great, the tuner is a nice bonus. Plus, the TV only has one DVI input, so I get both the DVDs and the HD tuner without buying a switch.

-Chris.

Originally posted by jtscherne
Ha-Ha! I won...

(Ok, I'll be the first to ask: what about CBS and WVIZ? :p Don't you love when people ask for more when they just got something?)

Congrats on being the first to report, but I still would like WB and UPS in HD too.

After that I'll want TNT, FS0,.......HECK...every channel:)

Why the heck doesn't the DVI port work on the HD8000? I ask this on this thread because I'm reading that it is available in other areas.

You won't get the WB because WBNX isn't even broadcasting HD.

Indians game tonight from Jacobs Field will be in HD on ESPN

Unfortunately it's not. The game is on ESPN2. No HD.

hmmmm....my DirecTV Receiver guide is showing it on channel 73 which is th HD channel. I guess we shall see.

and I just rechecked the guide and now it shows a college football game. Last night when I check channel 73 for tonight it did have the Indians game listed. Typical Cleveland luck.

I'm only 6 miles away from the Parma towers in North Royalton, so reception is pretty good. Though I'm happy with my OTA HDTV at the moment, I called up WOW Cable to see what they offer - based on the recommendation to "go cable" in this thread.

To get local Cleveland HDTV channels (& ESPN), it would cost me another $14.99 a month which includes an HD PVR. No way am I paying that. Now, part of that is because I'm grandfathered in under a less expensive plan with my current Internet + analog cable, so it would be a couple bucks more to refresh this plan, and add HDTV local on top of it. I pay $64 now. But since my main viewing is national networks and I don't watch a lot of ESPN, I'll stick with what I have.

The other thing I didn't like was the person on the phone had to "calculate" what it was going to cost me. It sounded like I was talking to a car salesman, and they had carte blanche on pricing! I guess they figure HDTV is still a sellers market which explains why its' pricing isn't listed in black & white on the WOW web page. Maybe if I call back a couple different times and talk to different people, I would get different pricing? Hmm...

-Robert

Interesting you say $14.99/mo, because my WOW bill has:

Digital Basic: 53.99
HD DVR Receiver: 12.99
HD Pak: 9.99 (includes ABC,FOX,CBS,NBC,ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, HDNet, HDNetMovies, StarzHD)

So that's about $23/mo for HD by my calculation. Were you quoted some kind of ESPNHD-only deal and not the complete HD Pak?

FWIW, DirecTV has got to be the worst with their on again/off again free HD this, discount HD that, "call the secret number" routine to get their deals...

-- Paul

paule123,

That's even more ridiculous. I'd complain.

Robert

It sure has been a pleasure watching the US Open in HD on CBS this weekend. What a difference between this broadcast and the Olympics on NBC! CBS is really doing it well - no matter how fast the action is, the broadcast is crisp, clear, and artifact free. I just wish channel 3 would take a lesson from this.

Assuming TitanTV is accurate, our first Fox HD broadcast here in the Cleveland area will be the Giants/Eagles game on Sunday at 4:00 p.m.

Originally posted by jtscherne
Assuming TitanTV is accurate, our first Fox HD broadcast here in the Cleveland area will be the Giants/Eagles game on Sunday at 4:00 p.m.

It's too bad CBS isn't going to be blanketing the AFC with HD coverage like Fox is covering the NFC...

From what I've read CBS doesn't have the technology to do that many games in HD. It's still going to be nice having 8-9 games in HD through the Sunday ticket.

CBS is supposed to have 2-3 HD games per week. Browns vs. Cowboys will be HD in week 2.

And since we almost always get CBS national games when the Browns are not playing, we'll get HD most of the time. The only time I could see CBS showing a non HD, non Browns game would have to be if the Bengals played the Steelers or something, and that game wasn't scheduled for HD.

Most weeks though, we should be alright.

CBS will have 3 games a week once the other truck is available. Until then only 2 games per week. My comment was CBS didn't have the technology to do 6 games yet.

Great...now I just need Warner Cable to pick-up WOIO-HD and I'll be straight.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!

For all of you WKYC bashers. Please note that they are now broadcasting some shows in 5.1 surround sound. the first in Cleveland. Per their engineer, most new shows this year will be in Dolby digital 5.1
hats off to channel 3-1

Originally posted by rlockshin
For all of you WKYC bashers. Please note that they are now broadcasting some shows in 5.1 surround sound. the first in Cleveland. Per their engineer, most new shows this year will be in Dolby digital 5.1
hats off to channel 3-1

DD 5.1 On NBC started with the Olympics and yes they were the first, but Fox has DD 5.1 now too.

Until they improve the signal strength the bashing will continue.

Originally posted by rlockshin
For all of you WKYC bashers. Please note that they are now broadcasting some shows in 5.1 surround sound. the first in Cleveland. Per their engineer, most new shows this year will be in Dolby digital 5.1
hats off to channel 3-1

Can't wait to see Third Watch or ER in 5.1. Of course, I'd rather see JAG or NCIS in HD, but that's Time Warner's fault.

Originally posted by rlockshin
For all of you WKYC bashers. Please note that they are now broadcasting some shows in 5.1 surround sound. the first in Cleveland. Per their engineer, most new shows this year will be in Dolby digital 5.1
hats off to channel 3-1

I wonder if their engineer has been watching the overcompressed, bandwidth starved crap they've been transmitting on 3-2 for the past weeks since the Olympics? They must have made some bandwidth allocation during the Olympics and never changed it back.

They must have *zero* audience actually watching 3-2 OTA on a digital TV, because they would have had a flood of complaints by now and fixed it. One can get a better picture watching low rez streaming video over a modem connection.

(Note: my last check of 3-2's crap-stream was last Friday during the Browns/Bears preseason game, they may have fixed it since then...)

-- Paul

The show I saw on Monday night was Hawaii. Sound was awesome

Originally posted by paule123
I wonder if their engineer has been watching the overcompressed, bandwidth starved crap they've been transmitting on 3-2 for the past weeks since the Olympics? They must have made some bandwidth allocation during the Olympics and never changed it back. If they're giving more bandwidth to 3.1, I'm all for it. Obviously, the best solution would be to eliminate 3.2 and 3.3 completely, but anything they do to improve 3.1 is a step in the right direction.

Then again, now that the Olympics are over, NBC doesn't have anything on that I want to watch anyway. Come to think of it, at the moment the weather map on 3.3 may be the most interesting content that they have to offer!

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
If they're giving more bandwidth to 3.1, I'm all for it. Obviously, the best solution would be to eliminate 3.2 and 3.3 completely, but anything they do to improve 3.1 is a step in the right direction.

I still see some macroblocking on 3-1. They should just shut off 3-2 to improve 3-1 quality.

Even during the Olympics, I compared OTA WKYC-DT coverage with Adelphia's WKYC-DT coverage and Dish Network's direct feed of NBC-DT. The results were as expected. Dish network's direct NBC feed was by far the best looking of the three, with OTA next & Adelphia a very close 3rd. It wasn't even close between Dish's national feed and WKYC. Night & day. It's obvious even with the increased bandwidth, that WKYC's PQ is far inferior to the national standard for NBC-DT. It's too bad they simply will not change this situation as they've made it very clear to me via e-mail that 2.2 (3-2) will never go away & that they feel their PQ is not inferior. Until Dish or Direct TV provide national NBC-DT, we won't get any better from any source that provides WKYC.

-Todd

FYI, looks like we have the Browns in HD for Weeks 2 & 3. No HD Browns in Week 1. That's as far as the websites are showing as of this time.

Here's a handy list of links to the NFL TV schedules so you can monitor progress as we go along:

CBS schedule:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

FOX schedule:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/schedule
(does not indicate which games are HD... grrr...)

ABC/ESPN schedule:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?page=/television

DirecTV Sunday Ticket schedule:
http://www.directvsports.com/Schedules/Packages/NFLSundayTicket/
(indicates which Fox games are HD)


HTH,
Paul

All games on Fox are HD Paul

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
All games on Fox are HD Paul

I thought they said "up to 6 per week" and in Week 1 & 5, for example, there are 7 games on Fox. Week 7 has 8 games on Fox, etc.

Fox will have upto 6 games per week....on weeks when they have 7 games one will be in SD.

The point I was trying to make is wouldn't it be nice if the webmasters over at Fox indicated which games were going to be in HD, like our fine friends over at ESPN-HD do for their sports programming....

I can deduce from the DirecTV ST schedule which Fox games are in HD, but really we should get the info from the horse's mouth, since Fox is spending all this money on the HD rollout you would think they'd want to pump this up. Do a search on "HDTV" at foxsports.com and all you get is the lame-o FSN HD schedule. No mention of their fabulous new HD NFL coverage.

you can also go to TitanTV.com & see which are in HD, but I understand what you are saying about Fox.

Titan TV is very unreliable too. They still show three HD games on ESPN tomorrow, yet ESPN's HD listings only show two games (and has for quite awhile).

Does any body know status of CBS-HD in Adelphia? I asked it directly to Adelphia, but no answer so far. I hope they pick up before Browns-Cowboys game.

Originally posted by jtscherne
Titan TV is very unreliable too. They still show three HD games on ESPN tomorrow, yet ESPN's HD listings only show two games (and has for quite awhile).

Yep, nothing's perfect, I'm just giving alternatives is all. ESPN's website has been wrong many times in the past as well. I recall specifically having some friends over to watch the US Soccer team a few months back, which was listed on ESPN's website as being HD, only to have people over watching SD garbage.

-Todd

Does anyone receive WKYCHD on channel 211 COMCAST cable without pixelation. Mine is totally trash with solid heavily breaking up. I have the comcast box and Sony OTA thru an AA 1157 switch. The OTA is clean but cable is trash. Channels 210 and 213 are fine

Bill

Originally posted by paule123

Here's a handy list of links to the NFL TV schedules so you can monitor progress as we go along:


HTH,
Paul

thx for the lynx Paul, those are nice.

Greetings, all...

I'm new to AVSForum - though I'm a regular at sister site TiVo Community. I am also new to digital TV, having just bought one of those cheapie USDigital receivers at Wal-Mart this afternoon.

And my good fortune with reception is better than I expected. I'm in a second floor condo in Cuyahoga Falls (old Northampton Twp. section) with large, open windows to the west. I am literally surrounded by tall trees with full leaves. And yet, with a simple RCA amplified indoor antenna pointing in the general direction of Parma, I am getting nearly all of the Cleveland/Akron/Canton DTV signals with little dropouts.

Some experience so far:

* My sole missing signal is, as you might have already guessed, WKYC/3 (2.1, etc.). A manual scan for DT2 produces zero signal. It doesn't even light up the bar! I haven't moved around the antenna and tried that yet.

* WOIO/19 (10.x) required some antenna twisting, but I've found a position which picks it up with perfect clarity.

* Unfortunately, I haven't yet figured out how to adjust the antenna to get WOIO AND clear signals out of WJW, WKYC, etc. If I move the antenna to get these, I lose WOIO. But at very least, if I want CBS HD feeds (like, say, whatever Browns games they carry in HD this year...I understand next week's game will be the first in HD), I know I can get them.

* Strongest signals here are WEAO/49 (50.x) and WDLI/17 (39.x), which blow the doors off the receiver no matter where I point the antenna. For whatever reason, WQHS/61 (34.x) is also quite strong...stronger than WEWS or WJW. And their power seems to be the same, and I assume that all of 'em are in the Parma antenna farm.

Until I get an HD set, I'm just watching on my analog set (S-video out) and it still looks pretty good.

I have Adelphia, but since I haven't bought an HD set yet (still thinking of which one to get), I won't spring for the HD package on cable yet...and besides, WOIO/CBS is still missing from that package. If I go satellite, I'll keep the USDigital box for local HD up here. If I go with Adelphia and they get WOIO, I'll move the box downstairs and use it as a tuner for the one TV downstairs without cable (assuming I get similar performance with the indoor antenna downstairs).

I also was hoping I could nab WKYC, but it doesn't look likely. I'll hunt down a Silver Sensor tomorrow and see if it makes any difference (though it supposedly is a UHF-only antenna, other comments on this thread give me hope). I'll also take the box, a small TV and the antenna out on my deck and see if that does anything.

(I can't install an external antenna here at all.)

What appears to be a problem with WKYC's DT signal...an industry database is showing it at 8KW!!! But it also lists WOIO-DT 10 at 4KW, and I'm watching it now with no problems. It must be that low VHF thing... :(

Oh, speaking of databases, one correction to a message above - WRAP-LP 32 is not connected with WAOH-LP 29 Akron ("The CAT") . The Cleveland simulcaster of that station is W35AX, which is up in the Parma farm with everyone else.

What about WVIZ? Anyone getting this signal?

I purchased an external medium directional antenna (both VHF/UHF) to see if it could do better than my internal Radio shack antenna. I live in North Royalton, only 6 miles from the Parma towers, and up on a hill too. Really, I should be ideal for anything. I'm comparing the V15 from Antennasdirect.com (http://www.antennasdirect.com/VHF%20channel%20listings.htm) to my Radio Shack 15-1868 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1868&site=search).

Because of my proximity, all the stations I care about come in a great 70-93% strength, except WKYC of course. That is around 40-44%, which is enough for my MyHD PCI card to get a decent signal most of the time, but I get occasional dropouts. I bought the external antenna mainly to see if I could get WKYC 3-1 to come in better.

Well, I ran a long RG6 cable out the window and walked around my deck (which faces Parma) with this antenna. Some of the UHF stations came in even better, with one at 100%. WKYC did no better than 44%. :mad:

I didn't try to put it on my roof yet, because I wanted to see if it mad a difference. But so far, its no better than my indoor RS antenna.

Does anyone get WKYC in strongly?

-Robert

If you were testing reception of 19.1 WOIO this afternoon, they were off the air from what I could tell. I could not get the digital channel OTA or on cable for a couple hours in the 2pm - 4pm range.

Speaking of antenna testing, I was trying out this AntennasDirect SR15 UHF yagi today in hopes of pulling in WVIZ's low power signal on 26:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/sr15_high_gain_yagi.htm

A very well built antenna by the way. Apprently made by an Alvin Corp. out of Australia. The boom is a heavy gauge milled aluminum, not the typical thin-metal boom assemblies I've seen with the Radio Shack type VHF/UHF outdoor antennas.

Mounted on the side of the house, outside 3rd floor bedroom window, aimed at Parma, just below the treetops. The yagi picked up all the Cleveland DTV stations well except for WKYC 3.1 (which is to be expected since this is not a VHF antenna) WKYC did come in, but it was breaking up quite a bit. The SR15 did not pick up WVIZ-DT at all, 25.1 (26). Oh well, another antenna collecting dust in the basement...

For the heck of it, I removed the SR15, and placed a Silver Sensor on the mast - It got all the stations except WKYC. With some fussing, I can usually get WKYC with this antenna, even sitting behind window glass. (Silver Sensor did *not* get WVIZ-DT)

Now this is the interesting part - I've got a set of cheap rabbit ears and figured I'd see what those mounted outside would do. I looked up the frequency of WYKC, and figured 1/8 wavelength was about 27" - I adjusted the rabbit ears to 27" on each side, folded them flat horizontal, and duct taped this to the top of the mast. (maybe I didn't need to get that technical, but what the heck). Amazingly, WKYC came in with a very good signal *and* it picked up all the other Cleveland DTV stations with PBS 45/49 (50) being a little weak, but locked in and viewable. Yes, indeed, the rabbit ears mounted outside pulled in 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, 17, 19.1, 43.1, 50, and 61.1 !! When I moved the rabbit ears inside behind the glass, 3.1, 8.1, 19.1, 61.1 still came in, but the other channels were lost.
(note: WVIZ-DT still did not come in, that's just hopeless I think until they get the power increased)

So based on the rabbit ears success, I'm thinking an antenna with one or two simple VHF elements like the V10 or V15 shown here would be a decent all around antenna:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/VHF%20channel%20listings.htm

The thing I like about these antennas is that the boom length is relatively short, and they have a low profile, unlike the huge Radio Shack antennas.

The OTA receiver I use is the Samsung SIR-T165. I am in Shaker, 10 miles from the Parma farm.

-- Paul

Ah, Valnar, I see you have the V15 -- even if your signal meter says 44% on WKYC, are you getting dropouts?

FWIW my SIR-T165 never shows more than 50% on the signal bars and at "50%" I never have a problem. Only when it drops below about 15% do I get breakups. The meter kind of goes 0-15% (breakups), 25% solid, 40% solid, 50% solid.

Paul,
Yep, that's the antenna I just bought, and tested today. The V15.

At 40%, I get almost perfect visual, with a hiccup now and then. My sound does kick in and out though every few minutes. All other stations get around 70-93%, since they are UHF. No problems.

I want to restate though that the V15 did no better than my internal antenna. I'm 5 miles away, so what I get is what I get, I'm afraid. That's why I wanted to know if *anyone* gets better than 50% on WKYC. Any Parmanians here?

I'll try the roof later this week, but I need to buy more cable.

-Robert

I get the idea that you almost have to be under the WKYC tower in Parma to get a decent signal out of it. Ditto with WVIZ, but they're a temporary, low power situation.

Update: I moved the indoor antenna pointing out the window a little, and now I have a position where I get all the available stations all of the time. I'm tempted to move it around to try to squeeze something out of WKYC, but it does not appear likely. I might also get a Silver Surfer, but again... I'm not expecting miracles out of WKYC! (Is there some reason they are camped out on Ch. 2 for digital?)

I get a solid signal from WKYC. On the signal meter, it's not quite as strong as the others, but it's pretty reliable. I've got a Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna in the attic. I get PBS from Akron sometimes (though it's pretty bad tonight), and never get anything at all from PBS in Cleveland.

I'm out in Geauga county, past Chagrin Falls, so it's not particularly close. And my antenna is pointed just slightly south of due west, right at the Cleveland stations and at the worst possible orientation for Akron, so it's working about as you'd expect.

I think anyone who wants to pull in WKYC is going to have to put up an antenna that is properly tuned for low-band VHF.

I'm not able to put up a large outdoor antenna, so I'm just gonna have to live without WKYC in HD, unless I hook up with Adelphia's HDTV service.

I'm actually quite surprised I'm doing THIS well with an indoor antenna surrounded by trees. I was particularly surprised I got even WDLI out of Canton (TBN), even though it's four channels I won't ever watch ;) I believe WDLI's DT tower is in a different place than its analog (near Canton)...I think the DT tower is over in Copley with WEAO/49-DT 50.

No problems with WEAO here...their signal is nearly full strength. They're having dropouts right now on their SD simulcast channel, but that appears to be internally, as they just put up a digital slide about technical difficulties, and the HD PBS feed is fine.

Nice to have that HD PBS feed on DT 50!!! It gives me something pretty to watch all the time...

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
I'm out in Geauga county, past Chagrin Falls, so it's not particularly close. And my antenna is pointed just slightly south of due west, right at the Cleveland stations and at the worst possible orientation for Akron, so it's working about as you'd expect.

Well, you've got that big antenna up there...I'm working with a small indoor amplified antenna. I have no attic, so I can't put a big one up there, and I live in a condo, so I can't really put up an outside antenna.

I think my good fortune is due to the fact that just about all the local stations are up in the Parma antenna farm, and I'm aiming there pretty much...and the Akron stations are close enough that I could probably be aiming anywhere to get them. WEAO-DT 50 here is the strongest signal I have, and it's over in Copley...though the Parma-based signals aren't much worse and are nearly at full strength.

Originally posted by Inundated
I get the idea that you almost have to be under the WKYC tower in Parma to get a decent signal out of it. Ditto with WVIZ, but they're a temporary, low power situation.

Update: I moved the indoor antenna pointing out the window a little, and now I have a position where I get all the available stations all of the time. I'm tempted to move it around to try to squeeze something out of WKYC, but it does not appear likely. I might also get a Silver Surfer, but again... I'm not expecting miracles out of WKYC! (Is there some reason they are camped out on Ch. 2 for digital?)

I'm out in Twinsburg. I have a Channel Master Stealthtenna & the best I can do with WKYC is about 68% which is usually enough to pull it in during the summer, but usually not enough during the winter. We'll see how that goes this winter. I have Adelphia HD as well, so I'll get their even more degraded version of WKYC in the worst case. ha!

-Todd

ps - I can't get WVIZ at all.

I have a Channel Master Stealthtenna & the best I can do with WKYC is about 68%
Really? :confused:
That antenna isn't even 95" long, which I thought was pretty much required for a good signal at 54Mhz (Channel 2).

What tuner do you have?

Robert

Originally posted by Dweezilz
I'm out in Twinsburg. I have a Channel Master Stealthtenna & the best I can do with WKYC is about 68% which is usually enough to pull it in during the summer, but usually not enough during the winter. We'll see how that goes this winter. I have Adelphia HD as well, so I'll get their even more degraded version of WKYC in the worst case. ha!

Since you have both...how much worse is the Adelphia HD version of WKYC or the other locals? And is there any local store where I can get the Stealthtenna? (I know you can get it online, but I'd like to buy/play with it/return it if it doesn't help any more than my amplified internal antenna. I could probably put it somewhere out on the deck or something.)

ps - I can't get WVIZ at all.

You're not alone ;) Not a peep of low-power WVIZ here in northwest Akron, though I suspect they are not at all likely to show up here until they go full-power. As mentioned, I have full signal out of WEAO/49-50, which is sweet...the PBS 24/7 HD feed!

I live in Green (about 5 miles NE of Akron Canton airport. I'm picking up channel 3.1 with a big Radio Shack UHF/VHF antenna. I can get about 65-66% on the HD TiVo, but my MyHD can only get about 36% and it can't seem to lock on at that strength. I was getting it with the MyHD most of last year though. It seemed to get worse as the TV season progressed until it was usually unwatchable by the end of the season.

As a side note, I was only able to get about 59-60% (which wasn't enough for a steady lock) until I moved my antenna to a different location on the roof. By moving it I gained about 6%. An antenna amp didn't help at all. I got the same thing with or without the amp. All the amp did was overload the tuners and make the signal much worse. However, the amp did allow me to insert some splitters and maintain high signal strength.

Question for you Adelphia guys - are you getting CBS HD or Fox HD yet?

I have a friend with Adelphia (non-HD service) that I want to set up with HD. If Adelphia is going to come through real soon (as in this week), he'll stick with Adelphia. If they don't get their act together by next Sunday, I'm gonna tell him to just learn new channel numbers and say bye bye Adelphia, hello Wide Open West...

I believe Adelphia has only FOX (WJW) HD...just added in the past few weeks. I'm pretty sure they don't have WOIO/CBS in HD as of yet.

A question:

How many folks in the Cleveland market are picking up WFMJ-DT and WYTV-DT out of Youngstown? My indoor antennas, amplified or no, aren't getting one bit of signal out of DT 20 (I forget which DT channel WYTV is on). I suspect terrain and location issues are working against me here...if I was closer to Portage County, I might have a shot. (Not to mention if I had an outdoor antenna!)

Sorry to monopolize the thread, but...just to note...it appears WOIO/19.1 is off the air this early afternoon. All the other Cleveland DTVers are normal, including 19's sister station, WUAB/43.1...

Sorry to monopolize the thread, but...just to note...it appears WOIO/19.1 is off the air this early afternoon. All the other Cleveland DTVers are normal, including 19's sister station, WUAB/43.1...

I will be interested to see if Adelphia takes any heat this week for not having WOIO up for the Browns game this weekend (vs. Dallas at 4:15 in HD). I have called to complain, but I dont know if that will really help. I can get it OTA but the signal is iffy sometimes. C'mon Adelphia! Get it done!!!

Yeah, one would hope that Adelphia would do whatever possible to get WOIO on in HD before the Browns game...the Browns' first in HD. But I get the idea Raycom (19/43's owner) may be the stumbling block here.

I'm not concerned...I get a great signal out of 19.1 even with my amplified indoor antenna.

BTW, WOIO/19.1 is back on, and maybe it's just me, but it looks better. Before, the local news seemed washed out and "soft"...maybe they are tweaking things before Sunday afternoon. (I know they're running upconverted material or 4:3 SD, but it looks better. Then again, last night's movie didn't look bad at all.)

Don't blame the cable provider.

I couldn't get it Over-The-Air.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd love to hear more from people about their WKYC (3-1) experiences. Is anyone getting above a 60% signal strength consistently on this station? I find it disconcerting that I'm 6 miles from Parma and I only get a 44% strength at best, according to my tuner.

-Robert

PS. Yes, Thank you Jim Gilliland. I'm looking for additional testimonials.

Yeah, 19 was off the air for a while on Saturday afternoon, too, while I was trying to watch the US Open. They were back on for the Women's final match on Saturday night and the Men's final late Sunday afternoon, though. And both broadcasts looked great. I'd like to see them get things worked out with Adelphia, too. I get 19 pretty well over the air, and 43 isn't bad either, but I can't use my Adelphia DVR with them until they get added to the cable.

The only thing I watch on 43 is Enterprise - do they have any other HD shows?

Anyone heard anything new about WB? I know that the FCC is still working with them on resolving the Canada issue, but I was really hoping they'd be on by now. All my kids' favorite shows are starting their new seasons on WB this week, and we're still watching the old SD analog feed.

On comparison between Brown's game on WOIO (analog) and other NFL games on Fox & ESPN (HD), it's night and day. I'm paying $150 to Adelphia including internet, ultimate package, and HD-DVR. My wife says I'm crazy, am I? If I can watch Brown's game by HD on Sunday, I'll keep Adelphia.

What is the best way to get OTA HD signal? I'm in Cleveland Heights and I have Samsung DLP TV without internal HD tuner. I don't have antenna any sort.

Welcome any comments. Thank you.

Originally posted by Valnar
Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd love to hear more from people about their WKYC (3-1) experiences. Is anyone getting above a 60% signal strength consistently on this station? I find it disconcerting that I'm 6 miles from Parma and I only get a 44% strength at best, according to my tuner. As I said before, it comes in pretty well here. My signal strength meter doesn't show numbers, but I'd estimate that it averages around 2/3 of the max, or about 65-70%. I'm about 18 miles from the station. Contrary to what someone else suggested above, I don't have a particularly "big" antenna, but I do have one that covers the VHF band. It's a typical suburban rooftop antenna, but mine is in the attic which limits its performance somewhat.

Well, Jim... you have a "big" antenna compared to me, at any rate, being indoor only here. ;)

I E-Mailed WKYC about their digital signal, and surprise, I got a response back. Their assistant chief engineer basically says if you get a good analog signal out of 3, you should be able to get DT 2. But...I've always had poor luck, no matter where in the Akron area, getting a watchable analog signal out of 3 without an outdoor antenna. The low VHF band is noisy. Period. It requires, digital or analog, more antenna or better antenna than the high VHF or UHF bands.

My RCA ANT1205 - a very good amplified internal, by the way - shows bursts of signal when I try to manually add DT 2/WKYC 3.1, but not ever enough to "lock" onto...it fluctuates wildly.

Don't blame the cable provider.

I couldn't get it Over-The-Air.

My message above wasn't clear, I guess. I can only get WOIO OTA right now, and even if I had Adelphia's HDTV package, WOIO is not YET included. Let's hope they come through before Sunday! But I probably won't spring for it - yet - until I have a real HDTV set here. I'm just playing with DTV and feeding it into my 32" Toshiba analog set...though it looks VERY good with 480i feeding component video out of the box. VERY good.

19's PQ is dramatically improved for the upconvert, though I don't know how much of that was me switching to the component feed. Before, the upconverted local news looked "washed out" last night.

What is the best way to get OTA HD signal? I'm in Cleveland Heights and I have Samsung DLP TV without internal HD tuner. I don't have antenna any sort.

You'd need a digital STB - you can get one for as cheap as $200 at Wal-Mart (USDigital), which is the one I have, and it works great...I'm watching WOIO 19.1 with it even as I type this. It has S-Video and component video output, the latter of which I just started using, since my analog TV supports it. If you're interested in HDMI or DVI outputs, you might wanna check out other boxes, but the component video looks good at least on my analog set. It might make a difference on your DLP unit, tho.

And you'll need an antenna of some sort. If you're in reasonable distance of the Parma TV antenna farm, and can get analog signals well, you won't need much more than internal rabbit ears or an amplified antenna (I use the RCA 1205). My only missing station is WKYC/3 DT 2, for reasons explained elsewhere on this thread...everyone else who's doing DTV in this market comes in fine.

Haven't heard anything yet about 55...but I assume if they come on soon, it'll be an easy catch for me (their tower is in Brecksville or something, right between here and the Parma antenna farm, and they are on UHF as far as I know). Too bad we have to wait...the WB looks like it has a decent HD schedule this year.

Originally posted by oldavnut
On comparison between Brown's game on WOIO (analog) and other NFL games on Fox & ESPN (HD), it's night and day. I'm paying $150 to Adelphia including internet, ultimate package, and HD-DVR. My wife says I'm crazy, am I? If I can watch Brown's game by HD on Sunday, I'll keep Adelphia.

What is the best way to get OTA HD signal? I'm in Cleveland Heights and I have Samsung DLP TV without internal HD tuner. I don't have antenna any sort.

Welcome any comments. Thank you.

No you're not crazy, I figure I've spent about $6000 on equipment in the last couple years to watch a g*ddamn football game. Most of these dollars being spent the day before the Super Bowl. :D I've gone from rarely watching TV with a $36 analog only cable bill to an $80 bill and HD DVR.

Anyhow, to get CBS OTA, you're going to have to spend yet another couple hundred dollars on an OTA receiver. I have the Samsung SIR-T165 but it looks like they are no longer available. Check the top two here at Circuit City:

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/catOid/-12885/Ntk/All/Ntt/hdtv%20receiver/rpem/ccd/categorylist.do

Then you need to play antenna games. Start with a Zenith Silver Sensor and place it as high as you can get, then move on up to the outdoor variety if that doesn't work...

Edit: If Inundated is correct, and the USDigital box passes 720p and 1080i to component outputs, that's a good deal. I did not think those boxes were capable of that...

50-1(ota) comes in with no problem but it won't show up in the guide. Anyone know why?

Originally posted by Tom in OH
50-1(ota) comes in with no problem but it won't show up in the guide. Anyone know why?

Are you talking about a DirecTV box with the integrated guide that shows OTA stations? If so, I would assume that since 50-1 is so new the guide data isn't yet being passed by the DirecTV stream. The guide doesn't actually come over the air.

If it's a cable provider, I'm afraid I can't help.

Originally posted by paule123
Edit: If Inundated is correct, and the USDigital box passes 720p and 1080i to component outputs, that's a good deal. I did not think those boxes were capable of that...

Looking at both the menus, and the manual, it appears this statement is correct...it'll send down, listed on the setup menu:

- Composite/S-Video
- Component 480i (using it on my analog Toshiba now)
- Component 480p (HDTV)
- Component 720p (HDTV)
- Component 1080i (HDTV)

I don't know how it works in practice, but it should work. And my analog set, feeding both S-Video and 480i, displays all the usual resolutions in whatever box is needed to display them onscreen. (i.e. I can watch 720p feeds and 1080i feeds with no problem)

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Are you talking about a DirecTV box with the integrated guide that shows OTA stations? If so, I would assume that since 50-1 is so new the guide data isn't yet being passed by the DirecTV stream. The guide doesn't actually come over the air.

If it's a cable provider, I'm afraid I can't help.

If it's just straight OTA, none of the local stations are sending down programming data...which is, if I understand right, sent down with the same PSIP data that converts DT 10 into channel 19-x for the STB.

WEAO/50-x (45/49 do not use the PSIP to remap channels for their DT 46/50) has more information than most. They have a time period listed for whatever, and a message to go to their Web site for more information.

Hats off to the 45/49 folks (46/50 folks? ;)...their PBS HD feed on 46-1 and 50-1 is the only full time OTA HD feed locally, and looks absolutely incredible even on my analog set.

Just got another reply from the assistant chief engineer at WKYC...

We've pretty much agreed that without a decent outdoor antenna, I'm probably out of luck to get WKYC-DT OTA here in the Akron area. He also mentioned that at some point in January 2006 or so, stations will be able to vacate low VHF channels for digital...but he has no idea if WKYC will elect that route.

Oh, and he "feels our pain", as it were...saying they "are aware" of the issues with low-VHF and DTV. And he just confirmed that co-operated WVPX-DT 59 is having issues with CICO in Chatham, Ontario...much like the Canadian issues that WBNX is having with its DT allocation.

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Are you talking about a DirecTV box with the integrated guide that shows OTA stations? If so, I would assume that since 50-1 is so new the guide data isn't yet being passed by the DirecTV stream. The guide doesn't actually come over the air.

If it's a cable provider, I'm afraid I can't help.

Ya, in the HDTivo guide. You're probably right, DirecTv and 50-1 haven't shared guide data yet. It's strange though, 25-1 WVIZ recently showed up in the guide but all I get is "searching for signal".

These ota HD channels are good to have for lots of reasons including comparing the HD channels from DirecTv(and Dish) for pq differences.

50-1 ???

I get UPN detroit on channel 50. Whats up with that?

Dan

DT 50 in Northeast Ohio is WEAO/49's digital signal (the Akron half of PBS 45 & 49).

You must have a pretty decent antenna to get UPN 50 out of Detroit.

WEAO-DT has only been on the air full-time for a few weeks, if that...you might wanna check again.

RE:50-1 ???

"You must have a pretty decent antenna to get UPN 50 out of Detroit."

I wish! As with ANY antenna, it's to low, to small and obviously has some
front to back ratio issues. There is/was a pretty decent tropo opening the last week or so, Damn Canadian stations are poping up all over the place.

Dan

As to Adelphia getting CBS by Sunday's Browns game:

They weren't able to get it done for the Super Bowl (even though we were told "real soon now" way back then!), so I don't expect it for this weekend either (AND CBS starts their HD SEC game of the week starting Saturday).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Inundated
[B]Yeah, one would hope that Adelphia would do whatever possible to get WOIO on in HD before the Browns game...the Browns' first in HD.


The Browns were in High Def last year on Sunday night Football against the Steelers. This will be the first in High def on CBS.

Speaking of CBS, I could not pick up Digital CBS OTA last night. Anyone else have a problem with this. The signal has been poor recently.

I also tried to tune into the premiere episode of LAX on digital WKYC last night. The sound was all messed up. I think WKYC may be having some growing pains with the new 5.1 equipment. It sounded like all that was coming out was background sounds. No center channel, no dialog. It did this on both OTA and Comcast. The overabundance of drop-outs was still there of course. Anyone Eliseo notice this?

I hope WOIO gets their act together before Sundays' game in Dallas.

Ray

I thought the Browns game vs. SF was in HD last year on CBS?

Shark73,

I think you're right. I remember going to a freinds house to watch the game and teasing him about not having an HDTV.

Ray

Oops, a little misunderstanding...I didn't mean it'd be the Browns first EVER game in HD. I have no idea what they aired in previous years. I meant the first this year. :)

Re: Canadian tropo openings - I once got channel 42 out of Ontario on my amplified rabbit ears in the bedroom! It wasn't the best signal, but it was watchable. I've never been able to repeat it. Of course, with WEAO-DT fired up, UPN 50 will likely never show up here again...

I'm gonna walk my antenna around again and see if I can get WKYC again. I'll occasionally get a burst of something coming through, but not nearly enough to "lock" the signal.

Is anyone out there having problems with the locals on Adelphia? 703, 705 and 708 are unwatchable (pixelization and dropouts), but the other channels are great. I don't really care because I have an OTA box and PQ is better (during the odd times I can actually get the locals from Adelphia). Anyone else having this problem?

So who do we write/call to get Channel 5 and 19 to get 5.1 equipment to go with the HD pic?

I think you might need to get a technician to come out or at least verify your signal strength. I get perfectly acceptable pictures from the Adelphia locals. I'm in Shaker Heights.

Originally posted by egman
Is anyone out there having problems with the locals on Adelphia? 703, 705 and 708 are unwatchable (pixelization and dropouts), but the other channels are great. I don't really care because I have an OTA box and PQ is better (during the odd times I can actually get the locals from Adelphia). Anyone else having this problem?

Originally posted by egman
Is anyone out there having problems with the locals on Adelphia? 703, 705 and 708 are unwatchable (pixelization and dropouts), but the other channels are great. I don't really care because I have an OTA box and PQ is better (during the odd times I can actually get the locals from Adelphia). Anyone else having this problem?

Could be a weak signal coming into the house or a problem with the drop from the pole, or too many splitters in the house. I was losing some of my HD channels and getting pixelization on WOW cable this spring during the thaw. All the other SD channels, analog and digital were ok. If I eliminated all other TVs in the house by bypassing my splitters, the HD channels would come back.

Technician came out and said the "taps" on the pole where the coax connects can fill with water when the winter ice melts. Once the water is blown out or dries out, the signal comes back. The HD digital channels are far more sensitive to this type of thing than the other SD low bandwidth channels.

-- Paul

It's not a good night if you're a NE Ohio HDTV fan, at least if you're depending on OTA reception, like me...

* Of CBS's shows tonight, only one, "NCIS", is listed in HDTV. And at least now, WOIO/19.1 is not showing it in HD...it's definitely in SD. (Is there a 24 hour hotline to bug them about this? The newsroom, perhaps?) I know 19 CAN do HD, as I've watched HD series, movies and last weekend's U.S. Open on the station...and it looked great. Someone apparently just forgot to flip the switch!

* ABC promises at least two HDTV shows on the schedule tonight: two episodes of "According to Jim" at 9 and 9:30. Then, there's a repeat of last night's "The Benefactor" at 10, which is now not even marked as HDTV on ABC's Web site. (Don't expect a lot, I guess!) But locally, WEWS is running some odd movie that is NOT on the network schedule - "Last Flight Out", an hour and a half extravaganza which preempts one of the two "Jim" episodes. The movie, obviously, is not in HD at the local level.

* Whatever NBC's showing in HD, I can't get it, because of the continuing struggle to find an antenna good enough for the local OTA feed at DT channel 2. (Did someone at Gannett, or whoever owned WKYC at the time, say "gee, all these other stations are on the UHF band, let's go find the worst possible low-VHF channel!")

* WUAB/43.1's sole HD program is "Enterprise" later this week, and I'm not even sure they're ready to pass it through the feed.

* WBNX/55 is nowhere near having its DTV stick up.

At this moment, my sole "HD" source is WEAO/50-1, and even THEY are running a non-HD "Widescreen" show at this hour! Arrgh! ;)

Good news. After I sent this, I turned back to WOIO/19-1, and someone apparently woke up and said "oops! we didn't turn on HDTV!" ;) "NCIS" is now in full HD...

Oh, one more...I think I misplaced a private message from someone... possibly on this thread. Please resend, whoever it was...

I get channel 3 through Adelphia. I recorded LAX Monday and sat down to look at it tonight. I never heard a sound problem like this. All I got was background noise and music. That went on the entire show. Checked my sound settings on my set, nothing was wrong.

I just was watching through my stereo, no 5.1.

Anybody else notice or see this show?

Originally posted by egman
Is anyone out there having problems with the locals on Adelphia? 703, 705 and 708 are unwatchable (pixelization and dropouts), but the other channels are great. I don't really care because I have an OTA box and PQ is better (during the odd times I can actually get the locals from Adelphia). Anyone else having this problem? Yes. It comes and goes here. Most of the time, the signals are fine. But occasionally, they suffer severe dropouts that render them unwatchable. And sometimes they just disappear entirely. I also get dropouts on the 770 series of channels sometimes, but the problems up there are far less frequent. For example, last night's broadcast of "A Clockwork Orange" suffered audio dropouts every few seconds throughout the film. I assume that I'll have to call Adelphia out to fix this, but I haven't done so yet. I'm assuming that it is a signal issue that is local to my house or neighborhood.

Originally posted by Inundated
* WUAB/43.1's sole HD program is "Enterprise" later this week, and I'm not even sure they're ready to pass it through the feed. WUAB has been carrying Enterprise in HD for most of last season. I'm not sure whether or not they carry any other HD shows. Why are you so sure that it is their "sole" HD program?

First, UPN does show a good number of friday night movies in HD.

Second, you guys have been throwing down a crazy number of posts lately. Just crazy. You would think this was a real city, not the city of Cleveland. #1 city of poverty (even though that figure is skewed). :)

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
WUAB has been carrying Enterprise in HD for most of last season. I'm not sure whether or not they carry any other HD shows. Why are you so sure that it is their "sole" HD program?

Because I've seen more than one list of network HDTV shows that list "Enterprise" as UPN's only HD program for the 2004 season. I hadn't seen anything that said UPN's movie package was fed in HD, though that wouldn't surprise me.

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
First, UPN does show a good number of friday night movies in HD.

Second, you guys have been throwing down a crazy number of posts lately. Just crazy. You would think this was a real city, not the city of Cleveland. #1 city of poverty (even though that figure is skewed). :)

Hah. It's my fault, as I'm new to the world of digital TV.

I apologize if I'm sounding like some sort of idiot to some of you here, but this is all new to me.

no, no one's fault, its just crazy. now i am contributing to the mad amount of posting in this thread.

OK, so it's me again, but I have a milestone this time...I HAVE WKYC-DT!!!

I went out to the garage and got a ladder. I figured I'd have to find the highest place in this second floor loft in my condo...and the windows go up VERY high. Roughly 10 feet above my TV, with both aerials pointing at the highest point of the loft window, and my hand outstretched, I managed to get a lock on WKYC-DT.

But...that's not the funniest part of the story. The funniest part? I don't have to put the antenna up there.

After locking WKYC into the STB, I moved around trying to find a place I could position my RCA ANT1205 internal amplified antenna. I considered even trying to place it atop the ceiling fan, just to see if that'd get a signal! (I have no shelving or anything that high up on the window.)

I then turned to my third, lowest window, but one I figured might have a better angle at Parma than the other two. I got some decent signal with the aerials pushed right up against the window, and figured I was gonna try taping the aerials up there and hope for the best.

I put the ANT1205 down, on the top right of my couch. Guess where it's stayed? Guess where I can watch WKYC-DT? With the antenna sitting on top of my couch!

I don't know how long this is going to work, but it's held up tonight at any rate...I've been watching Jay Leno in HD for about the past 15 minutes.

The other channels are variable from here, but I'm not touching the UHF part for a while. At least I know I have a place to catch WKYC now!

Inundated, I hope the FCC takes note of your post. Maybe it will help convince them to provide us all a government supplied roll of aluminum foil to apply to our antennas in the year 2006 when the analog transmitters go dark.

Could be a weak signal coming into the house or a problem with the drop from the pole, or too many splitters in the house. I was losing some of my HD channels and getting pixelization on WOW cable this spring during the thaw. All the other SD channels, analog and digital were ok. If I eliminated all other TVs in the house by bypassing my splitters, the HD channels would come back.

Before I get the technicians out, I am going to tap the line on the outside of the house and run a direct line to the box to see if that resolves the issue. I have a lot of splitters and the internal wiring in the house was done by a previous owner. Still seems strange that it is only the locals (INHD, HDNET and ESPN HD are fine). Like I said, I don't care that much because I have an OTA receiver, but the DVR won't be much use without a good signal.

FWIW,

A couple of weeks ago the same thing happened to me with Adelphia. I lost my locals HD feed but INHD, HDNET, etc were fine. I called them to advise. They said no problems had been reported but they would send someone out. Up until then all was fine with reception. So before they came out I got the idea to re-boot the box (SA-3250HD) just unplugged and plugged back in and lo in behold everything was back fine. Maybe give it a try?

Originally posted by egman
Still seems strange that it is only the locals (INHD, HDNET and ESPN HD are fine). Well, don't forget that the digital channels aren't transmitted the same way that the analog channels are - they don't each have their own frequency. As it happens, channels 703, 705, and 708 are all carried on the same QAM channel (681 MHz). The two HDNet channels are carried at 687MHz, ESPNHD at 645MHz, and the two InHD channels at 699MHz. So it is very likely that when one of the locals fails, all three will fail. And also likely that the signals carried on the other QAM carriers will remain unaffected.

There is a wide range of other QAM frequencies used for the rest of the digital channels, ranging from about 550MHz through about 700MHz.

Welcome to Good News and Bad News day for me and DTV. ;)

The good news? The Silver Sensor I ordered came in. And with a minimum of pointing, it is easily the best antenna I have in my arsenal right now. All the local OTA stations on UHF frequencies are nearly pegging the signal meter when the Silver Sensor is in the system. With the RCA ANT1205, my best choice so far, the signals were a notch or two weaker...and the Silver Sensor is not amplified! (I have one of those little Zenith in-line amplifiers, the ones usually sold with the SS, on the way.)

The bad news? Whatever magic antenna position I had with the RCA last night that allowed reception of WKYC-DT has gone away. I unplugged the RCA to use the Silver Sensor (which gets virtually nothing on either WKYC-DT or WOIO-DT, since it's a UHF only antenna), and the RCA WAS working with WKYC-DT before I did it. I plugged it back in, and I must have nudged it or moved it or something, because WKYC-DT in any of its channels is a mess now, and I can't find the right position to return it. Sigh.

The other news is that I'm getting Adelphia's HD package, so assuming it works, this'll be a moot point. But I'll move the OTA STB down to another TV...maybe when I get a true HD set, the cable box will go on it, and the STB on the set I'm using now.

Anyway, if you've got ANY signal at all...and need an indoor antenna... the Silver Sensor is a good bet from my experience.

Well, what do ya know...2 minutes after I posted that, I found another WKYC-DT spot...same physical location, but with one of the ANT1205's aerials up against the wall and one at not quite a 90 degree angle up...

It'll be interesting to see if I can manage to get WKYC-DT when I move the STB to another room, or if I'll have to make a cable run or something...and leave this RCA antenna right here! Or maybe I'll combine it with the SS...

Anyone getting WKYC-DT? I'm getting a signal strength of 77 but no picture or sound. When I punch in 3-2 or 3-3 they just change to 3-1 and nothing.

I'm getting WKYC-DT tonight, with the antenna in the proper position (you might remember it from the early episodes of "Married with Children" on FOX, where the Bundys went into "FOX VIEWING POSITION", complete with rabbit ears covered with tin foil).

HD, SD and radar are all present as usual.

Can somebody please advise on what I need to do antenna-wise and what I can expect signal-wise out in Mentor Ohio? I'm mostly concerned about getting the Browns/Cowboys game this weekend.

I have a two-story home with an attic (I have a Terk 55 up there now that isn't working very well). I have access to my roof and I already have a cable run to my tv. What is the right antenna to buy and how difficult is installation? I'm relatively handy and I'd like to do it right. Should I consider one of those antenna rotating devices?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Originally posted by ironmanix
I have a two-story home with an attic (I have a Terk 55 up there now that isn't working very well).

I'm not going to be able to be of a LOT of help here, but ditching the Terk 55 is your first choice.

You can likely get better results from ANY antenna up there, even a pretty decent sized outdoor one (I think the Channel Master 4227 [?] is usually a recommended antenna). I'm mostly using indoor antennas, with a combination of an RCA ANT1205 for VHF-based DTs (including WOIO/19, which is on DT 10), and a new Silver Sensor for the UHF-based DTs (everyone else in the market except for WKYC).

This is all temporary, since I'm going to be getting Adelphia's HD box on Friday.

Even in the world of outdoor antennas, you have to keep the above in mind... you need a good VHF antenna to pick up WKYC-DT 2 and WOIO-DT 10 (especially for WKYC, it's in low-VHF), and a good UHF antenna to pick up all the other digital stations in the Cleveland market.

Well, don't forget that the digital channels aren't transmitted the same way that the analog channels are - they don't each have their own frequency. As it happens, channels 703, 705, and 708 are all carried on the same QAM channel (681 MHz). The two HDNet channels are carried at 687MHz, ESPNHD at 645MHz, and the two InHD channels at 699MHz. So it is very likely that when one of the locals fails, all three will fail. And also likely that the signals carried on the other QAM carriers will remain unaffected.

Jim-

OK. That makes sense. But, does my plan to run a direct line from the drop on the side of the house make sense, or should I just get a technician out? I am a self-help kind of guy and this seems like a signal problem.

Originally posted by ironmanix
I have a two-story home with an attic (I have a Terk 55 up there now that isn't working very well). I have access to my roof and I already have a cable run to my tv. What is the right antenna to buy and how difficult is installation? I'm relatively handy and I'd like to do it right. Should I consider one of those antenna rotating devices? I wouldn't bother with a rotator unless you're planning to try to pull in stations from Erie, Akron, or Youngstown. Even with a rotator, I don't think you'll be overly successful. And you shouldn't need a rotator for the Cleveland stations - they're all in the same direction from you.

Get a decent UHF/VHF antenna and some mounting hardware. Most installations either strap the mast to the chimney or mount it at the peak of the wall of the house. I've got a Radio Shack antenna here that works well, but most people seem to prefer the Channel Master.

This is all temporary, since I'm going to be getting Adelphia's HD box on Friday.

Inundated-

I wouldn't plan on dumping your OTA receiver just yet. I have Adelphia HD and you can see my posts re: weak HD signal for locals. Also, Adelphia only carries ABC, NBC and FOX right now. No CBS means no Browns a lot of time. Also, down my way we have PBS HD (OTA 50). I plan to keep both OTA and Adelphia for quite a while.

Well, if your read all of Inundated's posts he's really not getting rid of anything. He's just moving some stuff around and the Adelphia box is an add on because he has had trouble with channel 3.

Anyway he will still get more HD television because he can get Inhd1,2, and if they ever have it working again the ppv channel. Not to mention ESPN and whatever premium channels he subscribes to.

have Adelphia HD and you can see my posts re: weak HD signal for locals.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. There have been times when I've lost a local on Adelphia for a time but as of late that hasn't been happening (knock on wood). On the other hand, I've seen premium channels go out to from time to time. When I've called Adelphia they usually say it's the broadcasters problem, which may or not be true. How about a link to your post?

Hey Guys,

I am wondering where do you go to find which programs are in HD for the week? Is the a centralized place with all the info? or do you just go the the stations' websites? I get OTA signals.

Thanks in advance, I am a noob with HD at the moment

Originally posted by Inundated
I'm not going to be able to be of a LOT of help here, but ditching the Terk 55 is your first choice.

You can likely get better results from ANY antenna up there, even a pretty decent sized outdoor one (I think the Channel Master 4227 [?] is usually a recommended antenna). I'm mostly using indoor antennas, with a combination of an RCA ANT1205 for VHF-based DTs (including WOIO/19, which is on DT 10), and a new Silver Sensor for the UHF-based DTs (everyone else in the market except for WKYC).

This is all temporary, since I'm going to be getting Adelphia's HD box on Friday.

Even in the world of outdoor antennas, you have to keep the above in mind... you need a good VHF antenna to pick up WKYC-DT 2 and WOIO-DT 10 (especially for WKYC, it's in low-VHF), and a good UHF antenna to pick up all the other digital stations in the Cleveland market.

Thanks for the help.

I have an HD-tuner in my Hitachi wide-screen AND a Samsung HDTivo AND right now a Comcast HD/DVR (which I'm likely going to give back as my experience with Comcast has been nothing short of incredibly horrible).


If i pick up a Channel Master 4227 (?) to get everything but WKYC then can I also hang an antenna that DOES get WKYC and put it 'in-line' with the other antenna? I have one length of coax running from my attic to my television right now so most of the work is done.

Also, is it required to power the antenna? If so, how do you provide power - can it be provided in line as well?

For the record, I have the Terk because I didn't have Comcast for last year's superbowl and I wanted something managable to pick it up. I've had it in my attic ever since and I haven't used it and it never really fully worked outside of superbowl Sunday when I had to do a TON of tweaking to get anything.

Originally posted by Mr. Snifter
Hey Guys,

I am wondering where do you go to find which programs are in HD for the week? Is the a centralized place with all the info? or do you just go the the stations' websites? I get OTA signals.

Thanks in advance, I am a noob with HD at the moment




My favorite sites are:

http://www.TitanTV.com
http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com

Originally posted by ironmanix
If i pick up a Channel Master 4227 (?) to get everything but WKYC then can I also hang an antenna that DOES get WKYC and put it 'in-line' with the other antenna? I have one length of coax running from my attic to my television right now so most of the work is done.

You don't need separate antennas for WKYC and WOIO - you need a combination VHF/UHF antenna. I only mentioned it because if you get just a UHF bowtie or yagi or something, you will need the VHF half. There are many combination outdoor VHF/UHF antennas you can put up there in the attic. If you can do this, I'd strongly advise it.

I mention the indoor stuff because I use it, and one of the better indoor antennas (Silver Sensor) is UHF only, though the RCA I use also has both.

I notice you're up in Mentor, so I suspect you wouldn't have a lot of luck with indoor antennas.

As mentioned, all of the Cleveland market stations are broadcasting from roughly the same area - Parma. Many of them are either on the same tower, or on towers near other towers. (Anyone who drives to Parmatown Mall will see what I'm talking about...) If you're not trying to get out of market stations, or stations like WEAO/Akron, you can "set and forget" the antenna.

Also, is it required to power the antenna? If so, how do you provide power - can it be provided in line as well?

The outdoor/mast antennas do not need power as far as I know. The indoor "amplified" ones do, but the Silver Sensor (mentioned above) does not.

I'm not all that versed on the larger masts...since I've been using indoor units. Head over to the HDTV Hardware subtopic on AVSForum, where you can find a wealth of information on outdoor antennas...

Originally posted by hookbill
Well, if your read all of Inundated's posts he's really not getting rid of anything. He's just moving some stuff around and the Adelphia box is an add on because he has had trouble with channel 3.

Correct. And I'll probably keep the OTA box on my main TV for a while, while I figure out how reliable the OTA stations are on Adelphia (and to keep getting WOIO, though I would HAVE to think that they'll be on Adelphia at SOME point...if only because Browns fans will storm the cable company!).

I also signed up for the HDPlus package, which brings in ESPNHD, HDNet, HDNet Movies and InHD 1 and 2. It's also known as the "Adelphia Vacuums Money Directly Out of Your Wallet" package. ;) I don't have HBO/Showtime/etc., though I'm thinking of it.

ironmanix,
I live in Willoughby, by the lake, 2 streets out of Mentor. I am using a Radio Shack (vu-120 I believe) mounted outside of the second story and a Dish 6000 tuner. I don't use a rotator or amplifier. I get pretty good signals all around (Digital 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 and 61). WKYC (3) is the worst and can breakup some of the time, but overall it is watchable. Hope this helps.
Jeff

Yes, Adelphia is expensive, but it works and I think it is cheaper than buying all of the satellite equipment. I have the SA Explorer 8000 HD. Just an FYI, I have the PowerLink, HD Plus, no premiums and my bill is $95 (for six months). Then the PowerLink goes up from 26.99 to 39.99, but they say there is another package to buy at that point to keep the cost down. We'll see then. Nobody ever said HDTV was cheap.

I still have very regular problems with the locals, but it may be the wiring in my house, which I will be bypassing shortly. I'll post an update then.

Originally posted by Lyle O
ironmanix,
I live in Willoughby, by the lake, 2 streets out of Mentor. I am using a Radio Shack (vu-120 I believe) mounted outside of the second story and a Dish 6000 tuner. I don't use a rotator or amplifier. I get pretty good signals all around (Digital 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 and 61). WKYC (3) is the worst and can breakup some of the time, but overall it is watchable. Hope this helps.
Jeff

Cool. I've had limited success just fooling around - I haven't really done anything formal on top of the house, just ran cable to my attic and set up the Terk (which appears worthless, btw).

Here's another dumb question. The website that tells you your mileage and direction to the broadcasting area did not mention an available digital station for CBS. They are wrong, right? The other thing is that the DirectTV schedule for the NFL package shows which games they will make available in HD and which aren't (I don't have the package but I can see them on the programming guide). They don't show the Browns broadcasting in HD this weekend. Can anybody confirm that the game will indeed be broadcast in HD before I rush into this? I'm fairly confident that the OSU game is NOT in HD but it is irrelevent anyway because I think it would be on one of the Comcast locals that I have.

I really appreciate your input, guys. Thanks a ton. I'm hoping this goes smoothly - football has become all but unwatchable in SD after watching in HD. I try to hit most OSU/Browns home games so half of the time it isn't an issue anyway.

GO BROWNS. GO BUCKS.

This schedule indicates HDTV for the Browns game.

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/

As far as I know, the Browns are in HD this weekend, one of CBS's 3 HD games this week (against the Cowboys). I believe they're also in HD the following two weeks...one more time on CBS, and one game that Fox will pick up since the road team will be an NFC team.

Sure enough, this schedule:

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

...shows Browns/NY Giants a week from Sunday in HD. The following week, FOX has the Browns, as they host the Redskins...and nearly all of FOX's games this year will be in HDTV. The only possible conflict is if FOX has more than 6 games in a week, and that week (10/3), they only have 5.

The website that tells you your mileage and direction to the broadcasting area did not mention an available digital station for CBS. They are wrong, right?

Unless I've been dreaming watching U.S. Open tennis and CBS dramas and sitcoms in HD via WOIO/19. :)

So, yes, the game is (as far as anyone knows) in HD this weekend, and yes, you should be able to get it fine on "Cleveland's CBS 19(-1)" with any decent antenna. No, the Terk is not a decent antenna. ;)

Again, you shouldn't need a rotator or to move the antenna unless you are looking for out of market stations from places like Youngstown and Erie. I bet if you got a really good antenna and swung it around, you might have a shot at Erie, if they're putting out DT signals.

But for Cleveland...no moving needed, everyone's basically in the same direction from you.

here's another fun antenna listing/direction site:

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/

Originally posted by ironmanix
Can somebody please advise on what I need to do antenna-wise and what I can expect signal-wise out in Mentor Ohio? ... Should I consider one of those antenna rotating devices?


I have a rotor (aka rotator). Just because of CBS.

Yes, all the stations are in the same direction from us, but CBS won't come in from the same position as the other stations. I need to tweak the direction for CBS. And it varies by day. Because they're broadcasting with such a weak signal we are susceptible to all climate changes.

If you have installed by now and without a rotor, I'm sure you're going to have to point the antenna for WOIO at least to get you through the Browns game.

I agree with Stan I am in Avon, I have a radio shack RU120, to avoid headaches I found rotor to be worth the expense.

John

Originally posted by StanZ
I have a rotor (aka rotator). Just because of CBS.

In the "now that you mention it" department:

Come to think of it, I can't find an antenna position for my RCA ANT1250 that will receive both WKYC-DT and WOIO-DT, without moving it.

I also have had to nudge around the Silver Sensor for the UHF DT stations, but it's just a nudge or two, and not always needed.

I'd advise our OP to get the antenna, put it up and lock into WOIO before Sunday, and deal with the rest, later. As I recall, he's putting it in the attic, and not on the roof, so a rotator may not be in the cards.

Before I put mine on roof, I had one in the attic, but that did not last too long because I kept sending the wife upstairs to "nudge" it into place. I got her the rotor for valentines day and its been allot happy around here.

John

Originally posted by cristo28
Before I put mine on roof, I had one in the attic, but that did not last too long because I kept sending the wife upstairs to "nudge" it into place. I got her the rotor for valentines day and its been allot happy around here.

John

lol. John, if I gave that to my wife for Valentines day she would plug it in, set me on it and rotate it.:)

I try to keep her expectations low, the year before she got new tires.

john

Originally posted by cristo28
I try to keep her expectations low, the year before she got new tires.

john

she might appreciate NFL sunday ticket as an early Xmas gift... :p

I'm still trying to convince my wife that the HDTV I bought in July is an anniversary present to us.......so in response she went out and bought a new diamond wedding band and told me that was my anniversary present.

Her birthday is coming up on 9/26..........but since no DTV can't buy her any NFL.

Maybe I'll try Major League Baseball next year on Valentines day.

Whoa...what am I thinking!:)

Not to coach you but the secret is to keep expectations low. and then just do the stupid male routine, for some reason that works all the time.

Hey Tom you guys get HDTV in Shelby?

John

Originally posted by egman
Jim-

OK. That makes sense. But, does my plan to run a direct line from the drop on the side of the house make sense, or should I just get a technician out? I am a self-help kind of guy and this seems like a signal problem. Can't hurt to try it. But I can't help but wonder if it's not an Adelphia problem somewhere up the line. In the long run, you're probably going to need the technician regardless.

My problem is that the failure is intermittent here, so there's no easy way for me to demonstrate it to a serviceman.

Adelphia folks - are you getting major herringbone interference on SCIFI (59 analog)?

I'd wonder if it was local, but all other channels are normal. I'm kinda worrying that it might throw a monkey wrench in my HDTV DVR install tomorrow (signal?), but I WILL have a technician out...so maybe I can ask him!

Originally posted by cristo28
Not to coach you but the secret is to keep expectations low. and then just do the stupid male routine, for some reason that works all the time.

Hey Tom you guys get HDTV in Shelby?

John

Hi John, it comes and goes... not very reliable. How's your signal on PBS-HD 50-1(45,49)? Worked well here yesterday but having trouble today.

Tom, You know I haven't tried PBS OTA I kind have been enjoying adelphia and haven't touched my OTA setup lately. I grew up in your area and I always like to joke around with my friends who live in the area, its a great town most of the times. Is it any easier getting C-Bus stations?

Is WMFD's DT transmitter up yet? I'd imagine Tom could get that one, unless it's not powerful enough to hit the next county up :D

cristo - don't know if you can get WEAO/50-1 up there, but if you have time to mess with it, it might be fun...they have a 24/7 HD feed from PBS. I imagine WVIZ/25-1 would, too, but I don't know if it's even on the air or at very, very low power from Brookpark Road.

Originally posted by Inundated
Is WMFD's DT transmitter up yet? I'd imagine Tom could get that one, unless it's not powerful enough to hit the next county up :D

They've been transmitting digitally for a couple years but it's digital 480i and has a static border on the left which is annoying. I wrote to them about a year ago and asked if they had any plans for HD in the future and they had none at the time.

Inundated, up where?

Originally posted by cristo28
Inundated, up where?

Your location says you're in Cleveland.

I don't know how far north WEAO-DT 50 hits...

If you have the NFL Sunday Ticket for DirectTV do you get the local Browns games on it? Do they black them out in Cleveland?

Yes Avon lorain County, and yes Browns games on NFL ticket is blackout ed within so many miles of Cleveland.

Originally posted by cristo28
Yes Avon lorain County, and yes Browns games on NFL ticket is blackout ed within so many miles of Cleveland.

Oh, OK. My "up there" was a generic reference to anything north of Akron. :D

I doubt you'll have a shot at WEAO-DT 50...

I know I am just having fun, I can't seem to get it in but I have only made several attempts with my ota and rotor.


john "go bucks"

Bad news, at least in the short term on CBS HD on Adelphia. I sent the following email to Fred Dixon who is in marketing for Adelphia and received his response today.

From: Brian Parsons [mailto:brian.parsons@adelphia.net]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 2:50 PM
To: 'Fred.dixon@adelphia.com'
Subject: Adelphia HD Complaint

Fred,

I just left you a voice mail, but thought I would follow up with you via email as well.



I am an Adelphia customer living in Avon Ohio. I have both Adelphia high speed internet and cable with the HD package.



My issue is with the lack of WOIO in the HD package. As I am sure you know, this CBS affiliate offers great HD prime time programming as well

as most NFL AFC games. The Browns will be playing this Sunday at 4:15pm in HDTV and I will be unable to watch it due to the fact that Adelphia does

not have the HD channel. As you also know, there are many options for service today including DBS and even OTA reception.

Could you please respond at your earliest convenience as to the date when this channel will be available? (Hopefully by this weekend!!)

Thanks in advance,

Brian Parsons

From: Fred Dixon [mailto:fred.dixon@adelphia.com]
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:59 PM
To: Brian Parsons
Subject: RE: Adelphia HD Complaint


Hello Brian, I apologize for not getting back sooner but this has been a very busy week. In response to your inquiry regarding WOIO in HD, currently we are in negotiations for the rights to broadcast the HD signal. We are aware of how important it is for Adelphia to have that option available on our HD line-up, and we doing everything in our power to give our customers every available option.

Unfortunately, that's the same answer we've been getting since Adelphia launched HD last year. We know it's possible, since WOW has CBS...

That's exactly the answer that you would have gotten from a CSR on the phone too.

I have no doubt they would like to give it to us but I'll bet because of the fact that the Browns are on WOIO the station itself may be offering at a high price tag.

Brian, Thanks for the info, this is why I have kept my OTA set-up. Its gonna be a while.

John

It's been a long, frustrating day that's finally resulted in a working Adelphia SA 8000HD DVR and the full complement of HD service. But...

* The technician's first visit resulted in one of the non-DVR boxes, the 3250, I think, being delivered. I specifically asked for the DVR box. The technician didn't have any with him, so he left the 3250 and I told him I'd go up to Brunswick (nearest walk-in) to pick it up.

* Adelphia didn't, despite telling me they did, turn on the HD PLUS tier. And in the process of this box swapping, someone deactivated one of my other two boxes, the second time this has happened in a week!

* Finally got it all working tonight. The PQ is fine, though I get occasional dropouts both in video and audio (about once a minute or so, on average). The 8000HD does allow me to swap around between stretched and zoomed pictures for my 4:3 screen, but doesn't remember that setting per channel...and doesn't output 480i component to an analog set, apparently...at least not accurately. I have to use S-Video.

Add to this the absence of WOIO in the HD pak (see above), and I'm not a 100% happy camper. (Oh, and I'm having renewed problems pulling in WOIO-DT OTA. Are they lower power tonight or am I just being victimized by the weather?)

The dropouts are driving me nuts. It appears to be motion related...if they're doing anything of any substance motion-wise in this baseball game, for example...swinging a bat, etc... (it's not all motion, that just seems to trigger it when it does happen...just now the pitcher went into his motions and became a blur, but the time after that, he was fine) I might have a technician back out this week to see if we have a signal strength issue or something. I assume it's not supposed to happen this much?

I'm *this* close to getting a decent outdoor OTA antenna I can squeeze stuff out of and hope I can hit Parma off my deck, and dumping all of Adelphia. It's the worst cable company in America...and it doesn't seem to care.

Mike, when you set this thing up did you review your set up yourself or did the tech set things up for you? Did you set up for 480i and 1080i only? You can set it up for 480p as well and also 720p.

If you want to know how to change the settings it's right on the front of the box. Press the button next to the on button while the unit is off simultaneously.

If you already knew this then it looks like you'll need to get an HD set.

C'mon, you know you want one.:)

Originally posted by hookbill
If you want to know how to change the settings it's right on the front of the box. Press the button next to the on button while the unit is off simultaneously.

Yeah, I already caught onto that. It says to hit INFO and GUIDE while the 8000HD is off. That cycles it through HD and SD modes. Neither of them work with component video fully hooked up to my SD TV. The SD mode, with those cables hooked up, looks funny (color/resolution wise), and I figured out why on page 9 of the manual:

"HD Mode or SD Mode? When you set up the 8000HD in HD mode, the connector Y/V Video Out becomes the HD Y video output (Y portion of the YPbPr video output). See the connection diagrams in the Connecting Entertainment Devices section. When you set up the 8000HD in SD mode, the connector labeled Y/V Video Out acts as an SD video out connector (V). See the diagram on page 14 for an example."

So, it appears that all three component output cables do not get used in SD mode at all - the box shuts off the other two in SD mode and changes the Y output.

As a result, I'm settling for S-Video (and am still feeding the component video from my OTA STB), the best I can get otherwise. It's still not bad...just not as breathtaking. But if I really want breathtaking...I need to go all the way! ;)

If you already knew this then it looks like you'll need to get an HD set.

C'mon, you know you want one.:)

Yeah, I just don't know WHICH one! ;) I was interested in a $716 special on a new Toshiba HD direct view CRT set I read about elsewhere here, but then it seemed like everyone had a major complaint about it...so I backed off (I almost ordered it!). And I think the full blown large plasma/DLP/LCD set would be overkill for my small, modest condo...so I'm probably going CRT.

BTW, the dropouts have largely disappeared on Adelphia. I wonder if it was an issue of both ESPN and inHD running baseball games (with some motion at times) at the same time? I wonder if that pushes the bandwidth limits... then again, inHD is running sumo wrestling now... LOL

And I managed to get an antenna placement for WOIO-DT...for now. I don't wanna lose this before Sunday! I just hope we will not too long from now... look back at the days where they had to go through negotiations to get local OTA affiliates on cable in HD as "the bad old days".

Originally posted by Inundated
Yeah, I already caught onto that. It says to hit INFO and GUIDE while the 8000HD is off. That cycles it through HD and SD modes. Neither of them work with component video fully hooked up to my SD TV. The SD mode, with those cables hooked up, looks funny (color/resolution wise), and I figured out why on page 9 of the manual:



Yeah, I just don't know WHICH one! ;) I was interested in a $716 special on a new Toshiba HD direct view CRT set I read about elsewhere here, but then it seemed like everyone had a major complaint about it...so I backed off (I almost ordered it!). And I think the full blown large plasma/DLP/LCD set would be overkill for my small, modest condo...so I'm probably going CRT.


BTW, the dropouts have largely disappeared on Adelphia. I wonder if it was an issue of both ESPN and inHD running baseball games (with some motion at times) at the same time? I wonder if that pushes the bandwidth limits... then again, inHD is running sumo wrestling now... LOL

And I managed to get an antenna placement for WOIO-DT...for now. I don't wanna lose this before Sunday! I just hope we will not too long from now... look back at the days where they had to go through negotiations to get local OTA affiliates on cable in HD as "the bad old days".

FYI...I was in Walmart the yesterday and spotted a Panasonic HD Ready set for around 750.00, 30" WS. They also had a Sanyo 27" HD ready for around 575.00 but I wouldn't touch that.

I think very highly of my Sony KV-30HS420. I believed it's priced right now at CC and BB for 995.00 (just don't let them sell you any of their bs Monster cables, that's how they make up for the low price). I'll give you some features:

DRC - (Digital Reality Creation) Mutifunction. Unlike conventional line doublers, the DRC Multifunction feature replaces the signal's NTSC waveform with HD equivalent, while doubling the number of vertical and horizontal lines. This results in four times the density for quality sources, such as DVD satellite, and digital camcorders. The Video Menu allows you to select interlaced, progresive or CineMotion output.


SCREEN MODE - Enables you to resize picture depending on the singal source.

Favorite Channels...which you wouldn't use with cable

ClearEdge VM (Velocity Modulation): Sharpens picture definition by enhancing vertical lines

Steady Sound - Equalizes volume levels so there is consistent output between programs and commercials

2 Component and 1 HDMI inputs...S video and cable analog (like you would use that)! Three other inputs for SD television and audio.

V Chip...if you got kids...everybody has that

HD Detailer Wideband video amplifier has a high bandwith frequency rating, which allows

CineMotion (Reverse 3-2 pulldown processing provides optimal picture quality for film-based sources (media originally shot in 24 frames-per-second format).

It has alot of things you cand dow with the sound like virtual surround and something called WOW which I never use. Also simulated stereo for mono broadcasts.

Now I'll tell you what I dislike:

Quality of analog picture on some of Adelphias stations can be poor.

It weighs 150 lbs. Once you get it in there don't plan on moving it unless you got help. Anyway, good luck!

Originally posted by hookbill
I think very highly of my Sony KV-30HS420. I believed it's priced right now at CC and BB for 995.00 (just don't let them sell you any of their bs Monster cables, that's how they make up for the low price).

I think I'd buy a Terk antenna before I'd buy a Monster cable, and that means...I'd buy neither one. ;)

I've looked at the Sony you have...in the stores, at least, it's been one of the ones I've been interested in. Sony also kinda has that "pay for the name" problem, but the actual TV sets still appear to be solid, good performers. I'm wondering how much I'll miss a 32" set here, but when you think about it, a widescreen set is about what I'm getting now doing letterboxing on the Toshiba 32" set. I don't need a huge set, though...and the cost difference between a 30", 32" and 34" set can be pretty huge in and of itself.

Quality of analog picture on some of Adelphias stations can be poor.

Quality of some of Adelphia's analog stations is poor, period. :D

Adelphia is, by far, the worst cable TV company in America. Even without going through that customer service hell I went through the other day. I'm nearly on bended knee each night begging Time Warner to take them over!

Hookbill,

I've been looking at that Sony for my bedroom. I've been going back and forth between spending the money for a 42" Pio plasma or just going cheap and getting the Sony 30" tube. What is you overall impression of HD material on that set?

Thanks for the input.

Originally posted by Shark73
Hookbill,

I've been looking at that Sony for my bedroom. I've been going back and forth between spending the money for a 42" Pio plasma or just going cheap and getting the Sony 30" tube. What is you overall impression of HD material on that set?

Thanks for the input.

I think it has great pq. I have to disagree a bit with Inundated about the paying for the name thing. It has been my experience that you do pay more for Sony but the reason is quality. There are only two electronics that I trust and that is Sony and Panasonic.

One more comment about the HD material. Keep in mind I'm watching through component video as Adelphia drags it's but in activating the DVI port on their HD/DVR (Scientific Atlantic 8000 HD). I'm highly impressed even with SD Digital. And another comment about that set. I don't have Dolby but the sound quality it delivers on it's own is so good that unless I'm watching a concert I don't even need to run it through my stereo. I do anyway because I like the steady sound feature which you can still use even if your piping it through your amp. Oh, My amp is a Sony too. So is my DVD/VCR combo unit.

Originally posted by hookbill
I think it has great pq. I have to disagree a bit with Inundated about the paying for the name thing. It has been my experience that you do pay more for Sony but the reason is quality. There are only two electronics that I trust and that is Sony and Panasonic.

As of recent years, there's been a lot of debate about Sony and how not everything is worth the extra money with the Sony name...some stuff isn't even built by them anymore. But I think they're still building their own TVs and are still solid there.

Went shopping a little today, and it was hard to compare the three sets in my sights...the Sony you have, a similar Panasonic model and a similar Toshiba. For whatever reason, the store I was in (h.h. gregg) had very, very poor analog signals feeding all the tube TVs, including the HD sets!

Re: Adelphia...the dropouts/pixelization have not persisted, though they do come back from time to time. I have no idea if it has to do with bandwidth use, signal strength or what. Right now, it's (near) perfect.

Innundated, I also wanted to say something to you about the baseball on ESPN and INHD. You were theorizing that perhaps with both live shows it was taking too much band with causing sound drop outs. Well, ESPN isn't currently showing any baseball in HD. Now it is still digital so there may be something to that but I kind of doubt it.

Going back to the Sony thing; the way I feel about it is that everytime I have bought Sony I have had great quality and no problems. I don't care if a tribe of pigmies in Africa are putting it together, Sony makes sure it works and that's what counts. I think their quality is unsurpassed.

Panasonic gives me the same feeling. Nice and warm and fuzzy.

Originally posted by hookbill
Innundated, I also wanted to say something to you about the baseball on ESPN and INHD. You were theorizing that perhaps with both live shows it was taking too much band with causing sound drop outs. Well, ESPN isn't currently showing any baseball in HD. Now it is still digital so there may be something to that but I kind of doubt it.

ESPN was running baseball, I think (would have to go back and check), but yes, it wasn't in HD...I forgot about that. But I had the dropouts - and picture pixellation - on both ESPNHD and INHD that night.

I'm watching the ND/MSU college game on ESPNHD, in HD, right now, and I haven't seen the same problems with the funky pixels or the dropouts.

I wonder what is causing them? And if it's an Adelphia/Cleveland problem or beyond...or a local problem on my hookup with cable signal. I did notice that the SD channels seemed a little clearer today. Maybe I screwed and unscrewed and rescrewed in the connectors in just right!

BTW, I get that same "warm, fuzzy feeling" about Toshiba stuff...my SD 32" set is fabulous...and is probably about as close to HD as you'll get with an SD set, with this feed. But Toshiba's new 30" HD set is getting a LOT of complaints in a thread in the "Directview Tube" section here on AVSForum... a set that was on Amazon for $716 earlier this week, and I almost bought it!

Here is one review on the Sony: http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Sony_KV_30HS420/4505-6481_16-30895537.html

If you do a search on your Toshiba model they probably have a review on that as well. Also CNET has a review as well but I think zdnet and CNET are merged at the hip.

I'm trying to get WOIO with my Terk-55 (I realize it sucks but I have one on-hand and I'm desperate.

I can get 5-1, 8-1, 61.1, 43.1 with no problems. I have the samsung HD receiver that I got with my DirectTVHD.

I have the terk in the attic with about 70 feet of additional coax - direct run to TV. I can bring it all over the upstairs if necessary but can't get a signa. It is jumping from 0 to 45 to 66 to 50, to 70 to 0, etc.

It is windy outside - why would the signal be so jumpy?

I put on a cheapy rabbit ears radio shack antenna and get basically the same results. Any ideas? I really want the game in HD today.

Well, don't break any limbs trying to get WOIO this early afternoon...the idiots at 19/43 haven't turned on the HD for the 1 PM game!

Does anyone here have a 24 hour number for "Cleveland's CBS (In SD) 19"?

Iron - the Terk is likely gonna getcha nowhere. If I were you, I'd spend the 1 PM game running down to Radio Shack and getting one of their rooftop antennas, and mount it in the attic.

FWIW, here in Akron and with just the amplified RCA ANT1250 indoor antenna, I'm having no signal problems with WOIO 19-1...just the stupid station itself not feeding the game in HD.

Just talked to whoever answered the newsroom line (216-781-1900 or 877-929-1943). She said they had some calls, and when someone had called earlier (last week) and she checked into it...she said "they told me not all games are in HDTV".

Well, this one is, I told her...and I mentioned that if they think they're getting complaints now, wait till the Browns game!

Just another example of incompetence out of that station, but I digress. Hopefully, she's talking to the control room. If we don't see them switch to HD in the next half-hour or so, please, call that number and bug them!

Hold your calls to WOIO/19... they just put on the HD feed of Steelers/Ravens. And it's looking GOOD...outstanding...my first CBS NFL game!

There were reports over in the CBS HD NFL thread in the "HDTV Programming" board here that the game didn't have any announcers for those watching in HD. Maybe that's why WOIO didn't switch to it...anyway, it's all working now, picture, announcers and all.

Since Adelphia still is not broasting 19 in HD I'm watching Green Bay v Chicago...and flipping to espnhd for a no hd broadcast of Yankees/Red Sox

Originally posted by hookbill
Since Adelphia still is not broasting 19 in HD I'm watching Green Bay v Chicago...and flipping to espnhd for a no hd broadcast of Yankees/Red Sox

I'm fortunate that I still have my OTA tuner hooked up to get 19. I can't believe that with the Browns having their first HD game this season...nothing has happened on the Adelphia/19 front. They must be working on it...they did get FOX 8 up! But I don't have any confidence in Raycom (19/43's owner). Adelphia may be the world's worst cable company, but Raycom may be a notch away from beating Sinclair as the world's worst TV group owner ;)

Maybe if you called up the news director of "19 Action News" and told him you wanted to see the cheerleaders in HD on Adelphia, they'd do something...

Originally posted by Inundated
Well, don't break any limbs trying to get WOIO this early afternoon...the idiots at 19/43 haven't turned on the HD for the 1 PM game!

Does anyone here have a 24 hour number for "Cleveland's CBS (In SD) 19"?

Iron - the Terk is likely gonna getcha nowhere. If I were you, I'd spend the 1 PM game running down to Radio Shack and getting one of their rooftop antennas, and mount it in the attic.

FWIW, here in Akron and with just the amplified RCA ANT1250 indoor antenna, I'm having no signal problems with WOIO 19-1...just the stupid station itself not feeding the game in HD.

Well, FINALLY got a good signal.

I took your advice - quick trip to the Rat Shack for a rooftop ($50 level) and threw it in the attic (which is no small feat - up and down, up and down through the hole in the upstairs ceiling).

Anyway - I get a hiccup every 3 or 5 minutes but generally a pretty good picture. I'm going to have one of the guys with the bucket trucks where I work stop by this week so I can just roof mount this thing.


Steelers losing (WOOHOO!) and looks like I'll get to see my first Browns in HD game since buying my TV last January!

Sweet! Thanks for the help, guys.

Too bad you're watching a pretty bad game right now! ;)

Glad you got it going, though!

I almost wish I didn't go through the trouble. Geez they are horrible.

FWIW, I'm getting WKYC perfect as well. I did a total of about 10 minutes of uneducated tweaking and I'm in an attic and I appear to be getting everything great.

I'm hoping that on the roof (out of the attic) improves the reliability further.

Glad to hear it's working for you, ironmanix! Yes, out on the roof should help you even more...who knows, you might scan and pick up an Erie or Youngstown station! I know Youngstown has two HD stations - and think WFMJ-DT 20 has been picked up by some outside the market. I don't know if ANY of the Erie DT stations are up. You'd likely have to have a rotor for out of market stations, though.

Whichever team wanted to win that game, they were apparently nowhere near the stadium today...both of 'em. Vinny passed for over 300 yards, but lived up to his old Cleveland nickname "Interceptaverde"...for that matter, so did Garcia. Yipes!

I'm thinking of getting an outdoor antenna and finding SOMEWHERE to put it here. Maybe I can mount it up high on the wall by my large loft window here on the second floor...and convince people it's a new art sculpture! But as long as I can pick up WOIO and WEAO OTA for now, I'll wait... the amplified RCA ANT1250 keps in check with WOIO for about 97% of the afternoon. Too bad it couldn't make the teams play better.

And I'll hold off on the actual HD set for now...as I've solved one problem. I couldn't get my HD cable DVR, the 8000HD, output component video to my Toshiba (SD) 32" set, which does accept 480i output from my OTA STB (the US Digital I use to pick up WOIO and WEAO). I was feeding it with S-Video, which was noticably less clear and smooth.

It turns out I had to kick the box into one more mode...into actual HD output mode (not SD), and then use a special key sequence to pump out 480i. Once I did that, it's fine...and looks just as good as the OTA box did in component video. Light years better...and no S-Video "grille" in front of the picture.

The only problem? The TV only has one component video, so I had to relegate the OTA STB to S-Video ;) But I can always switch it back next Sunday...

This picture is good enough for me, that I'll not pull the trigger on buying a regular HD set until I'm 100% satisfied with my decision on which kind to purchase, let alone which brand.

I'm trying to decide between all of my options.

I have comcast cable installed now (two HD-DVR's and one Digital box), I have DirectTV HD installed (samsung HD box - the rest sony receiver-only boxes) and I now have the rooftop antenna.

Does anybody know about splitting the rooftop antenna signal? Will that degrade the signal at all?

It depends on how strong your signal is. If you have a good strong signal, then splitting it might not hurt you. If splitting the signal causes your signal strength to drop too much, you can amplify the signal first, then split it.