One question, who is TCF?

have him prosecuted for stocking.

Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas? :D

- Trip

:D stalking?

Seriously though, be VERY CAREFUL Hook. Someone close to me was recently stalked and it did not end well if you know what I mean. Some people in this world are sick sick sick. If you think he is really stalking you, you don't threaten or provock him... just call the police.

:D stalking?

Seriously though, be VERY CAREFUL Hook. Someone close to me was recently stalked and it did not end well if you know what I mean. Some people in this world are sick sick sick. If you think he is really stalking you, you don't threaten or provock him... just call the police.

What the ----? What's going on here? I feel "out of the loop". What did I miss? Is hook OK? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

If you actually read his post just 3 posts above my last one (post #14750), that is what I was referring too. I also remember him speaking of the situation in the past. Just heeding him fair warning that there a some real nut cases out there and to be careful.

One question, who is TCF?

TiVo Community Forum. It used to be a sister site to AVS Forum, and concentrates on TiVos and other related things...and has a rather large off-topic area that is quite popular.

I say "used to be" because Mr. Bott sold off TCF to a company, Capable Networks. I think he still advises them, but he doesn't own it or directly run it anymore.

I met Mr. Bott in Las Vegas at a TC Con...very nice guy!

:D stalking?

Seriously though, be VERY CAREFUL Hook. Someone close to me was recently stalked and it did not end well if you know what I mean. Some people in this world are sick sick sick. If you think he is really stalking you, you don't threaten or provock him... just call the police.

Provock him?:D;)

See it happens to everyone.

I gotta find out who he is first, which is why I would need a PI. Cops arn't just going to search for someone who makes about me. Stalking, indeed. But more to the nature of deformation of character.

I've sent him pm's advising him that if this continues he will be criminally charged. That and to let him know that I've known his true identity at the Tivo Community Forum.

It's no big secret that I still go over there and since David Bott is no longer admin over there I will admit to it. And yes, "sooka" (magania) has caught me a couple of times and what really annoys me is that he will use something that I have said in the past giving advice, like what to do during having your cable cards installed and such as his "proof" to the moderators. He starts sending me PM's that he knows who I am and it's just a matter of time before he will get me thrown out. Or if I dare even make a wise crack he goes ballistic.

What is funny is that is the only time he post in his "sooka" ID. He reads everything over in this forum as well and he has even posted one time in here. Of course it had to do with something I had said which he felt linked me up to some other person who wasn't me. He did that in his magania account over here.

The last guy he accused I think he got him tossed but they had the wrong guy. He was posting on the page telling people "THIS IS HOOKBILL." Nobody responded to his post. I doubt he is actually a moderator.

I suppose he feels it's his job to keep evil people like me out of TCF, but truly he can't stop me and if I want to go there, I go there. Now if I have an account there right now or not, that I won't say.;)

My wife is aware of it and if it does continue I will, as I said, take action to protect her and myself.

I met Mr. Bott in Las Vegas at a TC Con...very nice guy!

Which is why I apologized to him. I don't think he was the one who made the decision to give me the second warning, a moderator did. And since I don't know why I got the second warning I can only guess that someone who didn't like me reported me for something that was probably borderline but once you get on their radar you can be in for trouble.

Another person who is still hanging in over there was told in a pm that "he has already done more things to get himself kicked out then hookbill did." We email each other.

Except hookbill didn't get kicked out. I just said I wasn't going to be kept under a microscope and then made the unkind statements and said "so go ahead and boot me."

One other thing: Never assume that your pm is truly private. Moderators will look at them if they feel it's necessary.

Unbelievable. They have been saying on the FOX 8 news that they will be televising the Browns vs Giants. So I did a little investigating. Why would FOX be televising Monday Night Football?

Well it appears that they think this is more important then the National League Championship Series! So while you watch your little Browns get pushed around like a bunch of pansies that they are by the Giants, I do not get the FOX national televised game! Which happens to be the Dodgers and the Phillies.

This has got to be a decision made by the new owners.

This sucks, you can see the game on ESPN if you want to. Why deprive me of watching something important.

FOX 8, you suck!

FOX 8, you suck!

Finally you realize it!!! I cannot watch even five minutes of "FOX 8 (what they pass off as)NEWS".

Watch channel 3. They're better!!:D:D

Two more weeks until SDV begins in NE Ohio!! :D:D

Two more weeks until SDV begins in NE Ohio!! :D:D

I doubt it. And even if it does, do you expect more HD on 10/21?

I personally like Channel 3 news better, but in the morning it's off by 7:00 am and in the evening it doesn't start until 6:00 pm.

Anyway it's not FOX 8 news I'm pissed at, it's the fact that the new FOX 8 decided to show a game that was already available on ESPN instead of the National League Championship.

FWIW they are now distributing the digital converters in Pittsburgh. From what I heard they work quite well.

I doubt it. And even if it does, do you expect more HD on 10/21?

I personally like Channel 3 news better, but in the morning it's off by 7:00 am and in the evening it doesn't start until 6:00 pm.

Anyway it's not FOX 8 news I'm pissed at, it's the fact that the new FOX 8 decided to show a game that was already available on ESPN instead of the National League Championship.

I have a feeling that the new non-O&O ownership will pull crap like this, as they can get away with it more than under O&O management. I highly doubt FOX would let an owned station pull something like FOX's MLB coverage. I'm surprised they got away with this. I wouldn't even say it was justified to show the Browns if they had a no loss season. Like that would ever happen.:rolleyes:

I especially cannot stand FOX morning. Sissy Shaffer is an obnoxious t**t. I do love Good Morning Cleveland though. Kimberly Gill is one fine lady. :D:D;)

FWIW they are now distributing the digital converters in Pittsburgh. From what I heard they work quite well.

What do you mean? They're giving away DTV converters? I thought it was just a coupon.

I What do you mean? They're giving away DTV converters? I thought it was just a coupon.


No, I'm talking about the SDV converters that allow TiVo users to access SDV. You know, the ones that they are providing for free that got you so upset about a week ago.:p

FWIW Armstrong answered part of my prayer and added FNC-HD over the weekend. All I need is TWC, NHL and CNBC and I'll be all set! :)

I have a feeling that the new non-O&O ownership will pull crap like this, as they can get away with it more than under O&O management. I highly doubt FOX would let an owned station pull something like FOX's MLB coverage. I'm surprised they got away with this. I wouldn't even say it was justified to show the Browns if they had a no loss season. Like that would ever happen.:rolleyes:

The decision had to be made months ago, before FOX closed on the sale of WJW.

And really, despite all the complaining here, it's a no brainer. You'd have to be insane if you ran a TV station in this town and you passed up on the local rights to a nationally-televised Browns game. It's about the closest thing to printing money that you can find in TV, and even when the Browns stink, half of Northeast Ohio watches them on TV.

It's very easily a decision that the network made itself, and should have made, for very, very sound business reasons. The "justification" isn't whether you like or don't like the Browns, or whether you think FOX should show a baseball playoff game instead.

The "justification" is MONEY. WJW, whether it's owned by FOX or by its new owners, makes a LOT of it (money) by getting the rights to the Browns/Giants Monday Night game. They are more than willing to give up whatever ratings that one baseball playoff game would get in Cleveland, to make MORE money selling local spots in the Browns game.

And yes, the game is widely available on ESPN. That's not the point. WJW/Local TV/FOX/whoever doesn't make money off the ESPN cable feed... they only make money showing it on their airwaves.

Anyway it's not FOX 8 news I'm pissed at, it's the fact that the new FOX 8 decided to show a game that was already available on ESPN instead of the National League Championship.


And if the Dodgers weren't in the NLCS, you wouldn't care. :D And you may be one of only a half-dozen Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio...and there are even less Phillies fans here...and this is an American League town anyway. ;) And with the Indians not in the playoffs this year, most people here don't really care either way.

Actually, I'm wondering why they are scheduling a baseball championship game on Monday night. Don't MLB and the NFL try to avoid that? Or maybe it's only an issue for them during the World Series...

In addition to Inundated's point about MONEY, Fox is the NFC national broadcaster, and the Giants are the NFC visitor, so the game would have been on Fox on Sunday anyway, and there has to be an OTA broadcaster in the local market for the MNF game, so I assume WJW gets first rights to it as the Fox affiliate here.

... and no offense hook, but in the Cleveland market, nobody gives a sh*t about the Dodgers and Phillies, two NL teams. This is an AL Central town.

Does anybody know how many cavs games are going to be in HD this year?

Does anybody know how many cavs games are going to be in HD this year?


you might want to go to the cavs official web page for a listing of there games and it might say on there which games will be on Fox Ohio in HD..

I was suprised that all the games on Fox Ohio were not in HD last year.

STO does all the Tribes game in HD I wonder the reasoning behind Fox ohio and the cavs

FWIW Armstrong answered part of my prayer and added FNC-HD over the weekend. All I need is TWC, NHL and CNBC and I'll be all set! :)

I'd put Big10 HD ahead of that, but at least we're getting more HD!

FWIW Armstrong answered part of my prayer and added FNC-HD over the weekend. All I need is TWC, NHL and CNBC and I'll be all set! :)

TWC...Isn't that Time Warner Cable? You want them to add Time Warner Cable? What are you crazy?;)

STO does all the Tribes game in HD I wonder the reasoning behind Fox ohio and the cavs

Because FSN Ohio isn't STO? ;)

Actually, FSN (the entire collection of regional networks) is upgrading its HD.

Supposedly, they'll even have a 24/7 HD feed like STO has now...that's 24/7 as in you'll be able to tune to the HD channel and watch it full-time, events actually being in HD may vary.

But they're making an effort to upgrade the number of games they cover in HD. There's a thread about it somewhere over in the HDTV Programming section here.

STO has been ahead of the curve. Last year, they went full HD for all home games, because they wired then-Jacobs Field for it, and put in all HD cameras. With the across-the-board availability of HD equipment/trucks/facilities growing, they added road games this now-past season.

TWC...Isn't that Time Warner Cable? You want them to add Time Warner Cable? What are you crazy?;)

I assume he means The Weather Channel.

:D

And if the Dodgers weren't in the NLCS, you wouldn't care. :D And you may be one of only a half-dozen Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio...and there are even less Phillies fans here...and this is an American League town anyway. ;) And with the Indians not in the playoffs this year, most people here don't really care either way.

I posted a response on this. I don't think it got removed but maybe I didn't push the send button. And it was a very clever and witty response, full of passion. I don't think I can do it the same way.:(

I've been hit with the Cleveland curse! The one time the Dodgers are shown on National Television FOX pulls the plug. And for what? To watch a team with a horrible quarterback, makes penalties and mistakes, get squashed by the World Champion Giants?

And as far as Dodger fans in the area, you may be surprised. There were quite a number of them in Cincinnati, many more then I expected.


Actually, I'm wondering why they are scheduling a baseball championship game on Monday night. Don't MLB and the NFL try to avoid that? Or maybe it's only an issue for them during the World Series...

I wondered the same thing yesterday when they had the playoffs on during the day against Sunday football. I thought they tried to avoid that.

This isn't the response I originally gave but it's kind of a summary. My other response was much more pasionate but I don't know what happened to it. Maybe the part where I said "in your face LaBron James and Yankee Fans" about Torre going to the NLCS got someone upset. Or maybe when I mentioned King James was still welcome to come to the Lakers after his contract was up.

Anyway, I do understand the decision. Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

... and no offense hook, but in the Cleveland market, nobody gives a sh*t about the Dodgers and Phillies, two NL teams. This is an AL Central town.


lol. I know that. And no offense taken.

I wish my original post went through. I covered most of this.

You know how you can get wound up with passion and start typing and really let it loose. I did, and I just can't do it a second time. I took a shot at everything in Cleveland sports.

Maybe somebody took offense at my post. Anyway, good luck next week You will need it.

Hook, I have posts just "disappear" at least once a week. They're not "edited" by moderators either, I think sometimes it's just a glitch in the system.

As far as Cleveland Sports, you really don't need to take any pot shots at them, they've pretty much done that to themselves. Enjoy your Dodgers.:)

I've been hit with the Cleveland curse! The one time the Dodgers are shown on National Television FOX pulls the plug. And for what? To watch a team with a horrible quarterback, makes penalties and mistakes, get squashed by the World Champion Giants?


You could be a fan of the Cleveland teams instead. We're hit with the "Cleveland curse" just by watching our own teams!

Relax...I'm pretty sure FOX 8 will show the other games, no? Of course, if I remember right from looking at the schedule, the Dodgers would win the NLCS next Monday night if they sweep the Phillies.

I AM sorry for you, in that case. Too bad you're surrounded by big trees out there, because otherwise you might have a shot at WKBN-DT to watch the game on "FOX 17/62" (subchannel 27.2 - not in HD, but at least you could see it!).

If you weren't antenna challenged, you'd probably get that signal in Bainbridge...or maybe you can drive to a sports bar in Trumbull County or something. :D


And as far as Dodger fans in the area, you may be surprised. There were quite a number of them in Cincinnati, many more then I expected.


I don't know if anyone's ever done a census of 'em, but I'm guessing the Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio could all fit into my living room.

Cincy? Well, it's an NL town, and if the Reds stink, at least fans there see some of the Dodgers on TV...

You could be a fan of the Cleveland teams instead. We're hit with the "Cleveland curse" just by watching our own teams!

Relax...I'm pretty sure FOX 8 will show the other games, no? Of course, if I remember right from looking at the schedule, the Dodgers would win the NLCS next Monday night if they sweep the Phillies.

Of course. It won't even go that far anyway. Thanks Inundated, I feel much better!


I don't know if anyone's ever done a census of 'em, but I'm guessing the Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio could all fit into my living room.

Cincy? Well, it's an NL town, and if the Reds stink, at least fans there see some of the Dodgers on TV...

You're probably right. Still I was amazed at how many I saw down there.

But as far as viewing the Dodgers on TV with the way it's set up now unless you have MLB Extra Innings or MLB on the computer you don't see much of them. The only way you may see them is if they are playing a contending Central Division Team, which is much more likely then what we get. A.L. Baseball, week after week, no strategy, boring.

Sorry guys, I don't like the DH and my good buddy, Tommy Lasorda whom I actually interrupted a conversation he was having with someone at LAX to shake his hand doesn't like it either!

I did thank him for bringing the gold back to the US in the Olympics. I know he's to old now but for motivation, nobody is better the Lasorda.

EDIT: Hey, maybe I can call Tommy and ask him to give the Browns some motivation! You know like when they complete a play he can run out there and hug the players and such! Looks like he could provide more motivation then "I just sit around and look gloomy" Romeo.

Yeah, like I have his number.

[QUOTE=Inundated;14814719]And if the Dodgers weren't in the NLCS, you wouldn't care. :D And you may be one of only a half-dozen Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio...and there are even less Phillies fans here...and this is an American League town anyway. ;) And with the Indians not in the playoffs this year, most people here don't really care either way.

Actually I am also intrested in the Dogers. My dream Series would put The Dogers against the Red Sox. I would love to see a "motivated" Manny be Manny and pound his old team into submission.

Ray

Actually I am also intrested in the Dogers. My dream Series would put The Dogers against the Red Sox. I would love to see a "motivated" Manny be Manny and pound his old team into submission.

Ray

This is EXACTLY what I want to see. I'll bet Manny would love nothing more then to show up in Fenway wearing Dodger Blue and put the hurting on them!

OK that's two of us. We would fit in Inundated's living room. I think. :)

Will you be supplying the beer?

Unbelievable. They have been saying on the FOX 8 news that they will be televising the Browns vs Giants. So I did a little investigating. Why would FOX be televising Monday Night Football?

Well it appears that they think this is more important then the National League Championship Series! So while you watch your little Browns get pushed around like a bunch of pansies that they are by the Giants, I do not get the FOX national televised game! Which happens to be the Dodgers and the Phillies.

This has got to be a decision made by the new owners.

This sucks, you can see the game on ESPN if you want to. Why deprive me of watching something important.

FOX 8, you suck!

Thanks to the 9-day EPG on my 622, I found that next Monday's NLCS is on (drum roll please) WUAB!!!! That's right - FOX moves to WUAB for one evening and one evening only!

Thanks to the 9-day EPG on my 622, I found that next Monday's NLCS is on (drum roll please) WUAB!!!! That's right - FOX moves to WUAB for one evening and one evening only!

You mean to say the the NLCS IS ON WUAB? Wow, amazing!

This is EXACTLY what I want to see. I'll bet Manny would love nothing more then to show up in Fenway wearing Dodger Blue and put the hurting on them!

OK that's two of us. We would fit in Inundated's living room. I think. :)


Oh, if you expand the "Dodger fan base in Northeast Ohio" to "people who want to see the Red Sox get their tails beaten by the Dodgers in the World Series", I can't even fit all of you in this entire suburb. That's pretty much all of Northeast Ohio!

:D

You mean to say the the NLCS IS ON WUAB? Wow, amazing!

Zap2It, using the same Tribune Media data as TiVo does, confirms this. NLCS on WUAB/WUAB-DT on Monday, the 13th, with Browns/Giants over on FOX 8.

The listing for the NLCS game says "HD", though that's probably just a carryover from the FOX main listing. I have no idea if WUAB can pick up the HD feed.

Though there's obviously no connection between WJW and WUAB, FOX does own MyNetwork TV, and would probably easily accede to the pre-emption of its own secondary network to keep the primary FOX product on the air in Cleveland that night.

Congratulations, hookbill! If your guys clinch, you'll be able to see it!

Oh, if you expand the "Dodger fan base in Northeast Ohio" to "people who want to see the Red Sox get their tails beaten by the Dodgers in the World Series", I can't even fit all of you in this entire suburb. That's pretty much all of Northeast Ohio!

:D

I'm simply amazed that WUAB picked it up. I mean whatever they had planned certainly couldn't bring in more ratings.:)

I checked www.zap2it.com., it's confirmed. Thank you Michael P 2341.

By the way, I understand how you feel about the Red Sox and what happened last year. But certainly you do have to understand that the Boston Red Sox have been my American League team since 1969. Now if the Phillies somehow manage to win, which I can assure you they won't, then I'm afraid I will root for the Red Sox.

Now if the Phillies somehow manage to win, which I can assure you they won't, then I'm afraid I will root for the Red Sox.

If that's the case, then we may just have to have you banned from these forums as well.:p

I'm simply amazed that WUAB picked it up. I mean whatever they had planned certainly couldn't bring in more ratings.:)

I checked www.zap2it.com., it's confirmed. Thank you Michael P 2341.

Yeah, so did I...see the second message right above yours :) Thanks for picking it up, Michael!

My gut feeling is that FOX approached WUAB and offered it to them, as the MyNetwork TV affiliate in the market.


By the way, I understand how you feel about the Red Sox and what happened last year. But certainly you do have to understand that the Boston Red Sox have been my American League team since 1969. Now if the Phillies somehow manage to win, which I can assure you they won't, then I'm afraid I will root for the Red Sox.

Go, Dodgers! :D

I actually used to like the Red Sox. And a friend of mine who lives in upstate New York, is a big Red Sox fan. He strains to hear the games late at night via a station in Hartford, CT. He comes by his Red Sox fandom from working a few years in Boston.

But when they finally won in 2004, and since...well, Red Sox Nation has become a mini-version of the Yankee fan base. They've earned some of that, for all the enmity the Yankee fans have aimed at them over the years... but they're starting to act entitled. And yes, the ALCS last year didn't help matters re: the Red Sox and Indians.

My friend, obviously, is excluded in that assessment of mine. He came down here last season and we actually watched an Indians/Red Sox game at Jacobs Field. Well, it was still Jacobs Field at that time.

I think he's immune to it because he's not actually from Massachusetts. :D Oh, and his father is a Detroit Tigers fan.

Yeah, so did I...see the second message right above yours :) Thanks for picking it up, Michael!

My gut feeling is that FOX approached WUAB and offered it to them, as the MyNetwork TV affiliate in the market.



Go, Dodgers! :D

I actually used to like the Red Sox. And a friend of mine who lives in upstate New York, is a big Red Sox fan. He strains to hear the games late at night via a station in Hartford, CT. He comes by his Red Sox fandom from working a few years in Boston.

But when they finally won in 2004, and since...well, Red Sox Nation has become a mini-version of the Yankee fan base. They've earned some of that, for all the enmity the Yankee fans have aimed at them over the years... but they're starting to act entitled. And yes, the ALCS last year didn't help matters re: the Red Sox and Indians.

My friend, obviously, is excluded in that assessment of mine. He came down here last season and we actually watched an Indians/Red Sox game at Jacobs Field. Well, it was still Jacobs Field at that time.

I think he's immune to it because he's not actually from Massachusetts. :D Oh, and his father is a Detroit Tigers fan.

When the Tribe played against the Red Sox last year I rooted for the Tribe, although it was tough for me to do so. My reason for that is that the Indians are one of the teams that many people in the nation do not hate. The Cubs, The Indians. I don't know very many people who felt sympathy for the White Sox.

And the Cubs were one of the first teams that started broadcasting nationally. The Braves did as well, but nobody I knew ever felt sorry for the Braves and you have to remember that the Braves were a very very bad team for many years. I remember reading an article in the Los Angeles Times that said "The TBS in WTBS must mean terrible baseball station.:)"

I understand now that the Red Sox have the "swagger", the Dodgers did too for many years. And let's not even talk about the Yankees! The Red Sox Nation developed over time, I can tell you for a fact that there are many Red Sox Fans in Southern California and have been for a number of years. I use to go out to Anaheim Stadium with my Red Sox cap and I was far from alone.

So I think in this country the team everybody would like to see win it all some day would be the Cubs and the Indians. The problem is the Tribe had it's chance but blew it in the 90's. The Cubs are just plain cursed. That's it. There is no logical reason for a team that won more games then anybody else in the league to go out and get swept by a team who won their division and was just a few games over .500.

Well, really there is. First the Dodgers are a "charmed" team even though they haven't gone to the World Series for 20 years. And then there is the "Manny" factor. I read the L.A. Times daily and I can't tell you how he has charmed the city and ignited that team. Manny being Manny is a force to be reckoned.

Edited to add: One thing I would never do is go to Jacobs Field, or Progressive Field or whatever and root for the Red Sox against the Indians.

What I do in the privacy of my own home however, is my business.;)

FOX 8 news this morning is telling people that the NLCS game 4 will be on WUAB.

Me thinks I was not the only one who was not pleased by them having the Browns instead of baseball.

The listing for the NLCS game says "HD", though that's probably just a carryover from the FOX main listing. I have no idea if WUAB can pick up the HD feed.

I would be very surprised if WUAB had the Dodgers game in HD. They've never shown a Cavs game in HD when those are simulcast on FSN Ohio in HD.

I would be very surprised if WUAB had the Dodgers game in HD. They've never shown a Cavs game in HD when those are simulcast on FSN Ohio in HD.

Slightly different situation on this one. The question is, can they splice into the FOX feed or pick it up independently.

Since they will be showing the FOX feed I would suspect it would be in HD.

Now if Cavs games are in HD on FOX SPORTS HD then you may be correct.

We will find out Monday.

Slightly different situation on this one. The question is, can they splice into the FOX feed or pick it up independently.

Since they will be showing the FOX feed I would suspect it would be in HD.

Now if Cavs games are in HD on FOX SPORTS HD then you may be correct.

We will find out Monday.

Something to keep in mind here, as you seem to already know based on your wording: FOX (TV network) and FOX Sports Ohio are two different entities.

They're both ultimately owned by FOX, as is MyNetwork TV, but the electronics aren't at all interconnected.

i.e. When FOX 8 plays highlights of a Cavs game on FSN Ohio, they record it off the TV feed like everyone else.

Someone noted elsewhere on AVS Forum that MyNetwork TV does not use the "FOX Splicer" system. While FOX controls MNTV, I'm presuming they can't send down a special FOX HD feed only to WUAB.

I CAN see them, though, loaning WUAB a regular FOX HD receiver just for that night. Whether WUAB can get that on the air or not, well, I don't know.

My guess: If it's FOX driving this bus, the game's in HD Monday night. If it's WUAB driving this bus, the game won't be.

Someone noted elsewhere on AVS Forum that MyNetwork TV does not use the "FOX Splicer" system. While FOX controls MNTV, I'm presuming they can't send down a special FOX HD feed only to WUAB.

I CAN see them, though, loaning WUAB a regular FOX HD receiver just for that night. Whether WUAB can get that on the air or not, well, I don't know.

My guess: If it's FOX driving this bus, the game's in HD Monday night. If it's WUAB driving this bus, the game won't be.

That's a good point. FOX's HD feed is very network controlled with the splicer system. Simple things like putting up a weather warning on WJW requires a drop to SD. Affiliates basically cannot "touch" the HD feed, it is passed through as it comes down. If it's being piped over to WUAB, I'd wager that it will be SD, since that is less restricted(It can be recorded and manipulated by the station).

Also noteworthy: I'm watching channel 5 news at noon and as they went to commercial the video for a story about Dancing With the Stars was in HD. If we can have Dancing clips in HD maybe the sports highlights will be going HD as well.

Also noteworthy: I'm watching channel 5 news at noon and as they went to commercial the video for a story about Dancing With the Stars was in HD. If we can have Dancing clips in HD maybe the sports highlights will be going HD as well.

Maybe, maybe not. We know WEWS can record HD for "Wheel" and "Jeopardy", but that clip could well have just been played out of an HD server recording off the ABC satellite feed. They just could have told the control room to roll back a random section of "DWTS".

The news/sports editing systems are different animals.

Well, in regards to my recent firewire concern, I just got a call from TWC after my email to Mr. Fry and indeed the 8300HDC doesn't have the ports fully enabled. Though the 8300HD and 4250 boxes do and I should be getting the 8300HD delivered to replace the HDC. Hopefully this will also get me off the horrendously slow MDN firmware.

Well, in regards to my recent firewire concern, I just got a call from TWC after my email to Mr. Fry and indeed the 8300HDC doesn't have the ports fully enabled. Though the 8300HD and 4250 boxes do and I should be getting the 8300HD delivered to replace the HDC. Hopefully this will also get me off the horrendously slow MDN firmware.

Good for you. The more I read about the HDC the worst it gets. I now find out that just like with SARA there is no priority in setting up your shows.

Now the way SARA handled this was totally unacceptable. Let's say you have two shows scheduled at 8:00 pm on Wednesday. But for some reason Survivor gets scheduled for a Wednesday instead of it's usual Thursday spot. SARA's reaction: Don't record anything!

Another reason why SARA is a pos. I don't know if the HDC does the same thing but I know it does not have priority settings.

Maybe, maybe not. We know WEWS can record HD for "Wheel" and "Jeopardy", but that clip could well have just been played out of an HD server recording off the ABC satellite feed. They just could have told the control room to roll back a random section of "DWTS".

The news/sports editing systems are different animals.

I sent WUAB an email asking them if it will be shown in HD. I expect to get an answer from them Monday, around 8:00 pm.:D

While I'm on the subject it looks like I won't be able to watch the game on Thursday anyway due to the fact that I have recordings for that night. But I do have an additional HDTV upstairs so I will be getting some excersise that night.

Hopefully it won't give me a heart attack.

Friday I don't see a problem.

Did anyone watch this episode OTA or record it? It was an absolute mess, sound with a grey screen then you would get about 2 minutes of picture followed by freezes, with sound continuing.

I haven't looked at Supernatural yet. Did WBNX HD have some problems that day?

nickdawg, you should check to see if you're getting Universal HD. You should be getting it. I still am and I don't believe it is part of their "higher tier" any longer.

Channel 470

WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?

nickdawg, you should check to see if you're getting Universal HD. You should be getting it. I still am and I don't believe it is part of their "higher tier" any longer.

Channel 470

Nope. I get the "Call Customer Care" message and phone number on channel 470. Do you have the HDTV tier? If not it must be some kind of mistake.

Nope. I get the "Call Customer Care" message and phone number on channel 470. Do you have the HDTV tier? If not it must be some kind of mistake.

No, I dropped it. I did that a week and a half ago and you said it would be short lived, but i posted a link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10354008#post10354008) showing the following: Has anybody mentioned that Universal HD and ESPN2HD are located on the Time Warner "free tier". So it now appears that except for ESPN, INHD and HDNet, everything else is free as long as you have a box or card. The $5 tier gets you 3 channels. Am I correct or am I missing something? BTW, hello Hookbill

Now notice the date of that post. 4/20/07.

So if I were you I'd call TWC and ask whats up, because apparently it is no longer on that tier.

The listings for TWC still show it on the HD Tier, but I don't think it really is anymore. Probably if you're new you would get it and if you didn't have the HD Tier before you still don't get it.

Just another way that "Time Warner - We think like you do" works. :)

Well this is a fine kettle of fish.

Had a tech out today to swap out this 8300HDC for the 8300HD. All he had on the truck was the HDC's brand new in box and his contractor's warehouse didn't have any of the 8300HD's available either. Though he was very knowledgeable about what I was after and suggested I try the local office here to see if they had any.

Ok. Go to the local service center and after waiting nearly half an hour on an irate customer holding up the works for the past /2/ hours, I go up and simply explain I had a tech out, didn't have the box, so was looking for one here. And I mentioned I specifically needed the 8300HD because it was the only DVR they have that has the firewire ports enabled (I won't even bother explaining the MDN garbage/speed issue. I'd half expect them to tell me to go pound sand on that one. :rolleyes:). Clerk said they only had 8300HDC's in as well and they only really re-release the 8300HD's to areas that cannot support the HDC hardware.

All in all I was calm about the situation because for the most part I understand the bureaucracy these people have to go through just to do their job. At least I still am in contact with Miss Watkins from the NEO headquarters and am gonna see this through till I can actually get an 8300HD in my hands AND provisioned.

But in addition to this bit of 'fun', it made me realize a step TW seems to be taking that I have long clamored for elsewhere and that is they seem to be dropping all of their SD set-tops and only sending out HD boxes even for SD customers. The nice part is that the HD boxes are perfectly capable of outputting a standard SD picture through RF, Composite, or S-Video and can even downconvert HD channels to view on SD televisions. This actually gives them an excuse, IF they can clear out all of the SD boxes in the field currently AND if they are smart enough at that point, to start dumping SD channels that have simulcast HD equivalents and relieve some bandwidth. Yeah, letterboxing and all, I think your average joe can just live with it in the name of pushing forward technologically.

On the ugh side though, I REALLY hope they can improve the performance of these things if they plan to put them out there on such a widespread basis. Even my old SA8000 w/Passport wasn't THIS slow.

But in addition to this bit of 'fun', it made me realize a step TW seems to be taking that I have long clamored for elsewhere and that is they seem to be dropping all of their SD set-tops and only sending out HD boxes even for SD customers. The nice part is that the HD boxes are perfectly capable of outputting a standard SD picture through RF, Composite, or S-Video and can even downconvert HD channels to view on SD televisions. This actually gives them an excuse, IF they can clear out all of the SD boxes in the field currently AND if they are smart enough at that point, to start dumping SD channels that have simulcast HD equivalents and relieve some bandwidth. Yeah, letterboxing and all, I think your average joe can just live with it in the name of pushing forward technologically.



Does that mean I could take back my old Pioneer SD only box and get an HDTV set top box for the bedroom, even though I do not have an HDTV? I was going to go to local TWC and lie that I got another HDTV just to get one for the bedroom(since a newer SA box would smoke an old Pioneer POS) but I never got around to it?

I'm not 100% sure if that's what they are doing, but it sure as heck seems like the 8300HDC is the absolute only model set-top, SD or HD, that they are stocking up on anymore. Wouldn't hurt to try really.

Well, those transmitters in Cleveland / Akron are still making their way to Bryan, OH. Can't beat that free Digital OTA.

Ch55 - My favorite
Ch43 - could use a power boost.
- Any updates?

Just get a mammoth antenna, and go to the Detroit market.:)

I doubt it. And even if it does, do you expect more HD on 10/21?

I personally like Channel 3 news better, but in the morning it's off by 7:00 am and in the evening it doesn't start until 6:00 pm.

Anyway it's not FOX 8 news I'm pissed at, it's the fact that the new FOX 8 decided to show a game that was already available on ESPN instead of the National League Championship.

FWIW they are now distributing the digital converters in Pittsburgh. From what I heard they work quite well.

I'm not 100% sure if that's what they are doing, but it sure as heck seems like the 8300HDC is the absolute only model set-top, SD or HD, that they are stocking up on anymore. Wouldn't hurt to try really.

Uh-oh. The 8300HDC is the only STB? Does that mean you cannot get a regular non-DVR box anymore? I cringe at paying $7 extra DVR fee for another box. Does anyone have two DVRs? How do they bill?

Uh-oh. The 8300HDC is the only STB? Does that mean you cannot get a regular non-DVR box anymore? I cringe at paying $7 extra DVR fee for another box. Does anyone have two DVRs? How do they bill?

Honestly, no clue how they do the billing for something like that myself. I'd hope the 'DVR service' charge would only be made once and then the individual set-top fees, but then again this is TW we're talking about. Though if anyone DOES know how they manage this, please do let us all know. I know my mom has been asking about a DVR for her bedroom just for her soap operas and it'd be a much easier catch if it only added another set-top fee to the bill.

As far as non-dvr set-tops, I haven't seen any BUT the Pioneer or the older SA4250 (which I was offered as a firewire capable box). Everything else is all DVR fare in one way or another. 8000, 8000HD (don't even think they ever had these, but SA made them), 8300, 8300HD, 8300/8240HDC. With the one-size-fits-all design of Mystro/Navigator, I'd theorize they can just switch the DVR functionality off and on at the headend on the DVR boxes.

Actually, if you don't want DVR functionality, the SA4250 is the one you should aim for I'd bet as it's quite a step up from the ancient Pioneer's and those two are really the only ones I am aware of that TW still has around.

Either way, wouldn't hurt to simply ask what non-dvr model set-tops they have available? May get you some relevant info.

Honestly, no clue how they do the billing for something like that myself. I'd hope the 'DVR service' charge would only be made once and then the individual set-top fees, but then again this is TW we're talking about. Though if anyone DOES know how they manage this, please do let us all know. I know my mom has been asking about a DVR for her bedroom just for her soap operas and it'd be a much easier catch if it only added another set-top fee to the bill.

As far as non-dvr set-tops, I haven't seen any BUT the Pioneer or the older SA4250 (which I was offered as a firewire capable box). Everything else is all DVR fare in one way or another. 8000, 8000HD (don't even think they ever had these, but SA made them), 8300, 8300HD, 8300/8240HDC. With the one-size-fits-all design of Mystro/Navigator, I'd theorize they can just switch the DVR functionality off and on at the headend on the DVR boxes.

Actually, if you don't want DVR functionality, the SA4250 is the one you should aim for I'd bet as it's quite a step up from the ancient Pioneer's and those two are really the only ones I am aware of that TW still has around.

Either way, wouldn't hurt to simply ask what non-dvr model set-tops they have available? May get you some relevant info.

Wow, I'm not sure what TWC office you go to, but the one here sucks. The "equipment" consists of several cabinets full of old crap Pioneer boxes. A few months back my mom went to trade in an old Pioneer box that turned to crap after Mystro came(slowUI/guide, rebooted often) and what she got was the same thing, although it works better*. *Better meaning that it no longer freezes up or reboots as much. Downside is the box was dirty. Yes, the card slot on the front and the crevices around the buttons had some dirt in them. I found it deplorable that they would give out crappy, used equipment. I have very little hope for TWC. I've just become content with my POS Pioneer box. At least it works decently.

WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?

Not a peep of a signal here 20 miles out from the antenna farm, on either of my Zenith/Insignia CECBs.

Of course, I am only using indoor antennas, and neither happen to be pointed actually at Parma. The Zenith is so good, I generally can just aim it even out my window in the other direction and get all the local UHF digitals.

I'll move one of 'em tomorrow and see, but I don't expect much.

The one pointed at Youngstown (where the window is) is actually locking on WKBN-DT for the first time ever tonight. It's not an incredibly solid signal, but enough to decode most of the time. I assume it's driven by atmospherics, and won't be a regular...the antenna is in the same position it has been.

Wow, I'm not sure what TWC office you go to, but the one here sucks.

Which office, the one at Midway Plaza? I think that's the one that used to be just south of Chapel Hill, up the road a bit on Brittain.

Well this is a fine kettle of fish.

Had a tech out today to swap out this 8300HDC for the 8300HD. All he had on the truck was the HDC's brand new in box and his contractor's warehouse didn't have any of the 8300HD's available either. Though he was very knowledgeable about what I was after and suggested I try the local office here to see if they had any.

Ok. Go to the local service center and after waiting nearly half an hour on an irate customer holding up the works for the past /2/ hours, I go up and simply explain I had a tech out, didn't have the box, so was looking for one here. And I mentioned I specifically needed the 8300HD because it was the only DVR they have that has the firewire ports enabled (I won't even bother explaining the MDN garbage/speed issue. I'd half expect them to tell me to go pound sand on that one. :rolleyes:). Clerk said they only had 8300HDC's in as well and they only really re-release the 8300HD's to areas that cannot support the HDC hardware.

All in all I was calm about the situation because for the most part I understand the bureaucracy these people have to go through just to do their job. At least I still am in contact with Miss Watkins from the NEO headquarters and am gonna see this through till I can actually get an 8300HD in my hands AND provisioned.

But in addition to this bit of 'fun', it made me realize a step TW seems to be taking that I have long clamored for elsewhere and that is they seem to be dropping all of their SD set-tops and only sending out HD boxes even for SD customers. The nice part is that the HD boxes are perfectly capable of outputting a standard SD picture through RF, Composite, or S-Video and can even downconvert HD channels to view on SD televisions. This actually gives them an excuse, IF they can clear out all of the SD boxes in the field currently AND if they are smart enough at that point, to start dumping SD channels that have simulcast HD equivalents and relieve some bandwidth. Yeah, letterboxing and all, I think your average joe can just live with it in the name of pushing forward technologically.

On the ugh side though, I REALLY hope they can improve the performance of these things if they plan to put them out there on such a widespread basis. Even my old SA8000 w/Passport wasn't THIS slow.

Forgive me if I don't have the story correct from the beginning.

If I recall this started with an email to steve.fry@twc.com. If it didn't then it needs to now.

If if it did and this is the results you got you can try the steve fry card again but there might not be anything they can do about it if they don't have the boxes available. I was guaranteed I would have an "M" card for my TiVo HD by my local area manager after playing the Fry card but they only had S cards available.

Fact: the majority of people who have DVR's have no idea what a firewall port is or why you would need one. Therefore as they replace the old machines with the HDC, you get what you get.

So to be honest it looks like your SOL.

Now the only other alternative of course is to get a TiVo HD which doesn't have an active firewall port but does communicate with your coomputer and allows transfers of files, provided they are not protected. Sinc TW, who "Thinks like we do" in there infinite wisdom decided to say "screw them all, let's just put everything digital on copy once" that limits you IF you use a lot of digital channels.

I don't. And the HD channels I use for transfers are not restricted.

In addition you can set up schedule priorities which the HDC does not do.

Now it's no secret I'm a TiVo Fanboy but to be fair I always tell people this: Are you satisfied with the DVR you have now? If you are then don't buy a TiVo.

But if you are not satisfied, then step into the light, son. And see the possibilities you never even thought were there.

Now on to other things:

Yes we are down by two games but it takes 4 to win the series!:mad:

We will win 3 at home and finish them in the 7th game in front of their fans. And what a God awful park that is!

Yeah. I emailed Mr. Fry which started this string of events. I at least got a firm explanation of what boxes they DID have with firewire enabled which are just the 8300HD and the 4250 (latter is non-DVR). And between of the FCC's retarded regulation pushing them to use outboard encryption equipment (read: cablecards even on their own owned set-tops as are the HDC models) and their anemic mess with Navigator/Mystro, it's starting to look real SOL at this point.

I'm certainly not against Tivo in any way truth be told. It just happens I don't have the required disposable funds at a single point in time to afford one. If I did, I'd already have an S3 in my posession. ;) I may just have to buckle down and start putting aside money to get one and hopefully when I do, the tuning resolver will be around.

Back when I boarded with a friend of mine who had DirecTV, we had considered getting a DirecTivo for one reason and one reason only: Direct transfer of shows over to a PC without the digital-to-analog-to-digital step. And that is where I am with now with TW. I can easily pull stuff off the DVR with an analog capture card, but that eliminates HD programming and even SD programming I need tons of drive space for good quality recording (~30GB uncompressed for 30 minutes at full 720x480x29.97fps interlaced, 48khz, 16 bit, stereo PCM audio. Runs about 28MB/s iirc.) and the capture card eats up cpu cycles like mad if I try anything but uncompressed video in realtime. And that's not to mention the inherent extra steps into the analog realm.

In any case, I did send another email back to the person at the NEO HQ in Canton I've been in talks with through Fry's email about today's situation and awaiting to see if anything promising comes out of that. Not holding my breath though tbh.

Yeah. I emailed Mr. Fry which started this string of events. I at least got a firm explanation of what boxes they DID have with firewire enabled which are just the 8300HD and the 4250 (latter is non-DVR). And between of the FCC's retarded regulation pushing them to use outboard encryption equipment (read: cablecards even on their own owned set-tops as are the HDC models) and their anemic mess with Navigator/Mystro, it's starting to look real SOL at this point.

I'm certainly not against Tivo in any way truth be told. It just happens I don't have the required disposable funds at a single point in time to afford one. If I did, I'd already have an S3 in my posession. ;) I may just have to buckle down and start putting aside money to get one and hopefully when I do, the tuning resolver will be around.

Back when I boarded with a friend of mine who had DirecTV, we had considered getting a DirecTivo for one reason and one reason only: Direct transfer of shows over to a PC without the digital-to-analog-to-digital step. And that is where I am with now with TW. I can easily pull stuff off the DVR with an analog capture card, but that eliminates HD programming and even SD programming I need tons of drive space for good quality recording (~30GB uncompressed for 30 minutes at full 720x480x29.97fps interlaced, 48khz, 16 bit, stereo PCM audio. Runs about 28MB/s iirc.) and the capture card eats up cpu cycles like mad if I try anything but uncompressed video in realtime. And that's not to mention the inherent extra steps into the analog realm.

In any case, I did send another email back to the person at the NEO HQ in Canton I've been in talks with through Fry's email about today's situation and awaiting to see if anything promising comes out of that. Not holding my breath though tbh.

Just an FYI TiVo has struck a deal with D*. Now I have no idea when this is going to happen but word has it that the new deal will have some form of Home Media which means access to computer.

But that's in the distant future, still something to think about. Sounds like you're on the right path, good luck. And if you are successfull in obtaining any different DVR please remember to tie the SA 8300 HDC to your bumper and return it to TW that way.:D;)

Uh-oh. The 8300HDC is the only STB? Does that mean you cannot get a regular non-DVR box anymore? I cringe at paying $7 extra DVR fee for another box. Does anyone have two DVRs? How do they bill?

Tell me it's the economy. You're so tight you squeak.

Are you related to Jack Benny?

Do you know who Jack Benny is?;)

WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?

Nope. All Cleveland station towers are 10 miles or less to me (antennaweb.org) and not even a hint of a WVIZ-DT signal here. Outdoor rooftop antenna, second floor, no problem picking up all other Cleveland DT stations in the past.

Although now after rescanning to try to pick up WVIZ-DT I've now lost 19-1. :eek:

Life isn't worth living without 19 Action News!

I thought WVIZ wasn't doing this till November? VIZ ahead of schedule? That's about as likely as a Fed takeover of our banking system..........oh.......wait.......... :)

Life isn't worth living without 19 Action News!

:eek::eek::eek:

I do agree that is good for comic relief.;)

WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to try it when I get home. Since I can see the WKYC tower from my back yard this should be a no-brainer. Even though I'm only 3 miles from the old Brookpark Rd. location I had to aim my Silver Sensor at a specific spot and hold it in order to get a lock on VIZ DT. There was no convenient spot for my antenna where VIZ would come in continuously without dropping out. That signal was so weak that the leaves on the trees messed up the signal.

Just get a mammoth antenna, and go to the Detroit market.:)
As previously posted the Monday night NLCS game is being carrried on WUAB.

BTW we have another source for FOX, albeit it's only SD 98% of the time: WYFX out of Youngstown on the subchannel of WKBN-DT (27-2). They did create an HD subchannel for the Super Bowl and IIRC one other time by putting the main WKBN / CBS channel in SD.

With DT signals markets like Detroit are not that easy to catch anymore. For example the DT signal for WXYZ the ABC station is on rf ch 41. WKBN-DT out of Youngstown is also on rf 41 and it's coverage map includes a good chunk of Greater Cleveland (and it covers Pittsburgh too :eek: ).

Uh-oh. The 8300HDC is the only STB? Does that mean you cannot get a regular non-DVR box anymore? I cringe at paying $7 extra DVR fee for another box. Does anyone have two DVRs? How do they bill?

Time Warner has HD boxes that are not DVRs, I pick one up about a week or so ago.I think they charge $8 a month.

I re-scanned and now have 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, 25.9. OTA Twinsburg outside antenna. I also have 26.12 and 26.13 with no signal. I also have 2.1 duplicating 3.1 and 2.2 duplicating 3.2.
JJK

I thought WVIZ wasn't doing this till November? VIZ ahead of schedule? It's easier to climb a tower in October than in November. ;)

This isn't their final full-power move; that still happens later.

You know I posted last week about my recording of Smallville on 9/25 and apparently nobody else had problems. I got one response from someone who lives in the Cleveland area and he said it came through fine and that was on the "Smallville" thread in the programming area.

I hate mysteries like this. This points at my TiVo S3 as I recorded Supernatural right afterwards on my TiVo HD and not one problem. However on my TiVo S3 I had about 6 shows recorded that night and only one problem.

I guess I'll never find out. If I see it again this week on Smallville then something weird is happening.

My best guess is whatever card that was receiving that show must have had some difficulties with the TW signal.

My best guess is whatever card that was receiving that show must have had some difficulties with the TW signal.

If you're only having trouble with one program on a particular channel, that points away from the cable company as they simply pass along the entire program stream without modification. This might be one of those mpeg continuity issues from the source.

If you're only having trouble with one program on a particular channel, that points away from the cable company as they simply pass along the entire program stream without modification. This might be one of those mpeg continuity issues from the source.

It seems to me that from what I see here (http://www.chiariglione.org/MPEG/standards/mpeg-2/mpeg-2.htm) that anyone who recorded this show would have this problem. So if you would be kind enough to elaborate?

I'm getting a 100% signal on rf 26. I'm now getting all the subchannels of WVIZ! No guide data, however. This is on a E* 622. As posted earlier, I can see the tower from my back yard so I'm not surprised by the strength of the signal.

For those of you who still are not getting a lock, keep trying! The tower is in the extereme northeast portion of the Parma antenna farm, on Broadview just up the hill from Ridgewood.

It seems to me that from what I see here (http://www.chiariglione.org/MPEG/standards/mpeg-2/mpeg-2.htm) that anyone who recorded this show would have this problem. So if you would be kind enough to elaborate?

If a single program has problems, it can be caused by mpeg splicing errors where a continuity counter gets messed up, or worse, the PID gets trashed. When a digital tuner locks onto a pid and it changes in midstream, the receiver things the program disappeared.

I don't have any of the specifics of this instance at my fingertips so I'm only guessing based on the symptom. It does seem that everyone would have a problem with this, at least if they're running the same type of recorder with the same firmware. Different recorders recover from these errors differently.

I'm getting a 100% signal on rf 26. I'm now getting all the subchannels of WVIZ! No guide data, however. This is on a E* 622.

Great news, Michael! Thanks.

WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?

Picking up a weak, unstable signal here in Canton via antenna on a 50' tower, not enough for actual video reception as I'd expected. Suppose that's improvement though as previously there was never even a hint of signal from WVIZ-DT. :)

For all of you who wished they had an alternative to cable but were told that they did not have a LOS to the satellites:

You may be interested in knowing that Dish Network has started using a different part of space called the "Eastern Arc". The orbital locations are 61.5, 72.7 & 77 degrees west. From NE Ohio that would be southeast, as opposed to the current southwest orientation.

Only new customers in the eastern part of the country are elligible for this new service which will be an all MPEG-4 service. Both SD & HD channels currently on the Western arc in MPEG-2 or 4 are now being uplinked to this new orbital location. The "big 4" Cleveland locals are alreaady available on 61.5 to anyone subscribing to the current SD locals @110 with an MPEG-4 HD receiver. They plan on carrying the rest of the locals soon, however the current receivers also have a built-in ATSC OTA tuner for the stations not yet carried (and also for the subchannels of stations already carried). FSN Ohio HD and STO HD are also available (for now just during games).

AND JUST TO BE FAIR: I also read that Direc TV has a similar situation in the 99 degree neighborhood. I just read that 119 & 110 (which are shared by both DBS providers) are no longer needed for D* MPEG-4 receivers.

I re-scanned and now have 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, 25.9. OTA Twinsburg outside antenna. I also have 26.12 and 26.13 with no signal. I also have 2.1 duplicating 3.1 and 2.2 duplicating 3.2.
JJK

Well I too tried rescanning and I'm getting all the same VIZ DT's (1,2,3,4) but the signals are all quite weak. :( Any chance they may bump the signal up while they tweak the new (temporary) tower location?

What is 25-9 CRRS? This wasn't present on any of my scans the last two years. It's too weak of a signal for me to lock on properly though.

Well I too tried rescanning and I'm getting all the same VIZ DT's (1,2,3,4) but the signals are all quite weak. :( Any chance they may bump the signal up while they tweak the new (temporary) tower location?

What is 25-9 CRRS? This wasn't present on any of my scans the last two years. It's too weak of a signal for me to lock on properly though.
25-9 CRRS is an audio-only service for the blind. It used to be carried on an FM station's subcarrier years ago. It has been a part of WVIZ-DT from the beginning. I used to get it on my old 921 (but many audio only services froze up that old buggy box). Basically they read the newspaper and perhaps other print media as a service to the visually impaired community. It's not on 24/7, I guess you need to get a schedule to know when something is on.

Well I too tried rescanning and I'm getting all the same VIZ DT's (1,2,3,4) but the signals are all quite weak. :( Any chance they may bump the signal up while they tweak the new (temporary) tower location?


They'll increase to full power when the new tower (adjacent to the existing one) is finished. Thery're using a temporary transmitter right now, just to carry them through until the final transition. Sit tight - it'll get better.

25-9 CRRS is an audio-only service for the blind. It used to be carried on an FM station's subcarrier years ago. It has been a part of WVIZ-DT from the beginning. I used to get it on my old 921 (but many audio only services froze up that old buggy box). Basically they read the newspaper and perhaps other print media as a service to the visually impaired community. It's not on 24/7, I guess you need to get a schedule to know when something is on.

I guess that would explain why I was only getting spotty audio and no video. :D

Although, I must say, their black color depth & resolution is STUNNING!

They'll increase to full power when the new tower (adjacent to the existing one) is finished. Thery're using a temporary transmitter right now, just to carry them through until the final transition. Sit tight - it'll get better.

Is that tower in the process of physically being constructed yet? The new WKYC/WVIZ tower, that is...

For all of you who wished they had an alternative to cable but were told that they did not have a LOS to the satellites:

You may be interested in knowing that Dish Network has started using a different part of space called the "Eastern Arc". The orbital locations are 61.5, 72.7 & 77 degrees west. From NE Ohio that would be southeast, as opposed to the current southwest orientation.

Only new customers in the eastern part of the country are elligible for this new service which will be an all MPEG-4 service. Both SD & HD channels currently on the Western arc in MPEG-2 or 4 are now being uplinked to this new orbital location. The "big 4" Cleveland locals are alreaady available on 61.5 to anyone subscribing to the current SD locals @110 with an MPEG-4 HD receiver. They plan on carrying the rest of the locals soon, however the current receivers also have a built-in ATSC OTA tuner for the stations not yet carried (and also for the subchannels of stations already carried). FSN Ohio HD and STO HD are also available (for now just during games).

AND JUST TO BE FAIR: I also read that Direc TV has a similar situation in the 99 degree neighborhood. I just read that 119 & 110 (which are shared by both DBS providers) are no longer needed for D* MPEG-4 receivers.

LOL. Yeah, I guess I gripe a great deal about cable companies. No doubt.

From what you're saying however I'm still stuck. About this time of the year the Sun is rising in the South East and by my observations, once again, too many trees.

Anyway I'm kind of commited at this point equipment wise. I have a lifetime subscription on my TiVo HD and with SDV coming and the tuner adapter I don't know if I would be willing to make the change.

Add the fact that it's Dish. I'm not certain how good their DVR is. I know they are still in a law suit with TiVo, at least last I heard for stealing some of the designs Tivo uses.

But I do appreciate you letting us know. It may be something to think about further on down the line.

Anybody else seeing freezing/stuttering on WUAB DT (406)? I'm watching Family Guy right now and it's stopping every few minutes.

Also on WUAB, another reason I am choosing that B.O. model on November 4th. The commercial was shown in letterbox and old file video used had sidebars on it. The BO model supports original aspect ratio(OAR). Sometimes on letterboxed commercials the creator is tempted to "stretch" older 4:3 content or photos to fill the 16:9 frame. Bravo, BO!

Anybody else seeing freezing/stuttering on WUAB DT (406)? I'm watching Family Guy right now and it's stopping every few minutes.

Your lucky I like you. I just wasted 10 minutes (maybe only 5) of my time watching commercials, which is why I have a DVR and no, everything looks fine.

How come nobody told me The 4400 got cancelled!

Bravo, BO!


Why does this statement from you not surprise me.:p:D

Your lucky I like you. I just wasted 10 minutes (maybe only 5) of my time watching commercials, which is why I have a DVR and no, everything looks fine.

How come nobody told me The 4400 got cancelled!

Now I'm watching House on 408 and it's acting just like WUAB.

What does the 440 have to do with this?

Is that tower in the process of physically being constructed yet? The new WKYC/WVIZ tower, that is...

I believe so although I'm not 100% positive. If I was doing it I'd certainly want to get the footers planted before the ground freezes.

Picking up WVIZ-DT OTA here in Shaker Heights on my D* HR20. Austin City Limits in HD, looks good. The HR20 shows 25-1 through 25-4 in the guide. Signal strength seems to be borderline, with a few breakups.

I believe so although I'm not 100% positive. If I was doing it I'd certainly want to get the footers planted before the ground freezes.

I was up there recently...with my laptop in the Kmart parking lot on Broadview Road, picking up the TSReader capture of WKYC-DT for Trip here.

I drove by the 'KYC site on the way up to WVIZ's apparently now former temporary DT site, and didn't see anything obvious as far as the new joint tower goes...but it's tough to look past all those trees down into the WKYC site while driving past. You can see the big towers and most of the building, but not really anything down on the road level itself.

I'm guessing another laptop-equipped DT tuner trip to that parking lot would net me WVIZ's new temporary 10KW signal. But I'll move one of the CECB's up into the loft first, and aim at Parma...

OK, I just moved one of my two CECBs (Zenith/Insignia) up to the loft, and brought my best amplified indoor antenna to its best shot at the antenna farm.

It may well be a reflected signal, but 26 is indeed lighting up with *something* for the first time ever here. It's not enough to even try to "lock" (below 50%), but there's signal there - and no tuner or converter box or TV I've ever had picked up even a HINT of signal from WVIZ-DT before tonight.

I also managed to get a brief lock on WKBN-DT, even though the window isn't favorable in that direction. Oddly enough, the antenna placement is the same for both WKBN-DT and WVIZ-DT. For some reason, I get nothing if I aim the antenna directly out towards Parma for WVIZ-DT, which is why I mentioned "reflected" signal.

I already had it locking WKBN-DT, occasionally, pointed towards Youngstown...as I mentioned in the Youngstown thread, I'm guessing it's an atmospheric quirk.

I left the box on manually-inserted 26-1, hoping at some point the PSIP detects strong enough overnight to at least populate it to 25-1 et al.

Now I'm watching House on 408 and it's acting just like WUAB.

What does the 440 have to do with this?

Then I would think that you may want to have your DVR or Box replaced if it continues.

And it's The 4400. I just didn't realize it was cancelled, it has nothing to do with this. Talk about leaving a show with no answers!

OK, I just moved one of my two CECBs (Zenith/Insignia) up to the loft, and brought my best amplified indoor antenna to its best shot at the antenna farm.

It may well be a reflected signal, but 26 is indeed lighting up with *something* for the first time ever here. It's not enough to even try to "lock" (below 50%), but there's signal there - and no tuner or converter box or TV I've ever had picked up even a HINT of signal from WVIZ-DT before tonight.

I also managed to get a brief lock on WKBN-DT, even though the window isn't favorable in that direction. Oddly enough, the antenna placement is the same for both WKBN-DT and WVIZ-DT. For some reason, I get nothing if I aim the antenna directly out towards Parma for WVIZ-DT, which is why I mentioned "reflected" signal.

I already had it locking WKBN-DT, occasionally, pointed towards Youngstown...as I mentioned in the Youngstown thread, I'm guessing it's an atmospheric quirk.

I left the box on manually-inserted 26-1, hoping at some point the PSIP detects strong enough overnight to at least populate it to 25-1 et al.

Thanks, Inundated. Whereabouts are you picking this up from? Do you have the full version of TSReader or the Lite version?

New Philadelphia TWC here. Lost my 19-1 QAM, saying there is no signal. Anyone know what they are doing? Thanks.

Then I would think that you may want to have your DVR or Box replaced if it continues.

And it's The 4400. I just didn't realize it was cancelled, it has nothing to do with this. Talk about leaving a show with no answers!

It fixed itself later. ONce the episode of "House" was over, Cops and AMW worked fine, even local commercials. Flipped the channel at 10(to avoid FOX News), came back at 11 and Mad TV(digital widescreen) was OK as well.

When I changed the channel at 10, I went to WUAB for Action News at 10 and that was working OJ as well.

Must have been something with that show or a station or TWC problem that was fixed.

Now, now, hook. You know how I feel about my 8300HD(without the C at the end). They would have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands. :D No way I'll take another 8300HDC!! :p

It fixed itself later. ONce the episode of "House" was over, Cops and AMW worked fine, even local commercials. Flipped the channel at 10(to avoid FOX News), came back at 11 and Mad TV(digital widescreen) was OK as well.

When I changed the channel at 10, I went to WUAB for Action News at 10 and that was working OJ as well.

Must have been something with that show or a station or TWC problem that was fixed.

FOX was having some major problems with the game earlier. Not just locally, all over the country.

Now, now, hook. You know how I feel about my 8300HD(without the C at the end). They would have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands. :D No way I'll take another 8300HDC!! :p


Yeah, but if it ever does break down you know what you will get. But don't worry nickdawg, if that ever happens I'll bring you into the light so arn't stuck with that pos.;)

I'd like to get some feedback about other DVRs(Tivo, D*, E*, etc).

As you know, I'm a huge Boston Legal fan. I was thrilled to see the first episode on WEWHD a few weeks back. I used to have it on VHS from years ago, but accidentally deleted it. Of course I DVRed it when it was on. Anyway, now that recording is eating a chunk of hard drive space(didn't plan on keeping it permanently on DVR) so I decided to dump it to VHS. When I connected the standard Y/W/R audio and video cables to the VCR, all I could get on WEWHD is a letterboxed picture. I tried changing all the settings(Aspect Ratio: 4x3, Picture Size: Zoom, Output Format: 480i). The changes were only applied to the output of the box on the component video channel, not the AV output or the RF output on channel 4. Basically I was hoping the 8300HD(or any other of TWC's HD boxes) would behave like a CECB where the output of HDTV signals was user-defined(to make a normal 4:3 picture, especially on "windowboxed" shows).

I always wanted to get a HDTV STB for my SDTVs back in the day before the networks moved the bugs. When the bugs were in their old position on the HD channels and there was no advertising, an adjustable output would have made it easy to cut off the bug and have a 4:3 bug free picture. Now that the bugs are moved, I wouldn't mind the bug, since the HD signal downconverted to SD looks much better than the regualr SDTV channel.

So my question is, how does your HDTV reception equipment work? Is there a variable SD output? I was very disappointed that I had to record Boston Legal in letterbox.:(

I'd like to get some feedback about other DVRs(Tivo, D*, E*, etc).

As you know, I'm a huge Boston Legal fan. I was thrilled to see the first episode on WEWHD a few weeks back. I used to have it on VHS from years ago, but accidentally deleted it. Of course I DVRed it when it was on. Anyway, now that recording is eating a chunk of hard drive space(didn't plan on keeping it permanently on DVR) so I decided to dump it to VHS. When I connected the standard Y/W/R audio and video cables to the VCR, all I could get on WEWHD is a letterboxed picture. I tried changing all the settings(Aspect Ratio: 4x3, Picture Size: Zoom, Output Format: 480i). The changes were only applied to the output of the box on the component video channel, not the AV output or the RF output on channel 4. Basically I was hoping the 8300HD(or any other of TWC's HD boxes) would behave like a CECB where the output of HDTV signals was user-defined(to make a normal 4:3 picture, especially on "windowboxed" shows).

I always wanted to get a HDTV STB for my SDTVs back in the day before the networks moved the bugs. When the bugs were in their old position on the HD channels and there was no advertising, an adjustable output would have made it easy to cut off the bug and have a 4:3 bug free picture. Now that the bugs are moved, I wouldn't mind the bug, since the HD signal downconverted to SD looks much better than the regualr SDTV channel.

So my question is, how does your HDTV reception equipment work? Is there a variable SD output? I was very disappointed that I had to record Boston Legal in letterbox.:(

The only way you will get what you want with the equipment you have is to purchase Season 1 on DVD. Yes, you would have to spend money.

Or you can get an eSATA for more disk space. But anytime you tranfer HD to DVD unless it's an HD Recorder then that's what you are going to get.

Now with TiVo I can transfer it to my computer, my other TiVo. Also there is bit torrent, but since you can't access bit torrent without burning it to a DVD to play on your set, you get the same results. When I move something from bit torrent to TiVo it shows it in 16X9.

So either get eSATA, or purchase the darn season.

Thanks, Inundated. Whereabouts are you picking this up from? Do you have the full version of TSReader or the Lite version?

I just have the Lite download. I only needed it to help Trip with the Cleveland market data captures. That's on my laptop with USB tuner, of course, not related to the CECB...


When I changed the channel at 10, I went to WUAB for Action News at 10 and that was working OJ as well.


As bad as they are, I'm pretty sure O.J. isn't working at "Action News"...at last check, he was in a jail cell awaiting sentencing.



(Heh...couldn't resist!)

I just have the Lite download. I only needed it to help Trip with the Cleveland market data captures. That's on my laptop with USB tuner, of course, not related to the CECB...



As bad as they are, I'm pretty sure O.J. isn't working at "Action News"...at last check, he was in a jail cell awaiting sentencing.



(Heh...couldn't resist!)

What?

Ohhhhhhhh!!!:D Took me a minute to get it. I said "OJ" instead of "OK". :D

OK, I just moved one of my two CECBs (Zenith/Insignia) up to the loft, and brought my best amplified indoor antenna to its best shot at the antenna farm.

It may well be a reflected signal, but 26 is indeed lighting up with *something* for the first time ever here. It's not enough to even try to "lock" (below 50%), but there's signal there - and no tuner or converter box or TV I've ever had picked up even a HINT of signal from WVIZ-DT before tonight.
.


Notice this on the Zenith 901, need a 50% signal to lock, but then the signal can go lower.

I'm getting a 100% signal on rf 26. I'm now getting all the subchannels of WVIZ! No guide data, however. This is on a E* 622. As posted earlier, I can see the tower from my back yard so I'm not surprised by the strength of the signal.

For those of you who still are not getting a lock, keep trying! The tower is in the extereme northeast portion of the Parma antenna farm, on Broadview just up the hill from Ridgewood.

I figured with the nice WX they made this move prematurely, if indeed this is the 10KW xmitter, I guess I'll be waiting till next August as originally anticipated. :( I was able to lock & map 25-1, -2, -3, -4 & -9 around 7PM Saturday evening with minimal pixalization , then it went blank never to return, I'm still picking up about a 10-30% signal, just a llittle better than I was from the old site on Brookpark, without a lock.

Michael, was not able to get any Guide data here either. ... strange around the same time 19 was pixalating & was down to a 30% signal.

Suprised that they are beaming this to the south as Akron's already is served by 45/49, I'm only 28 miles from the farm, a lot closer than Canton would likely be.

I figured with the nice WX they made this move prematurely, if indeed this is the 10KW xmitter, I guess I'll be waiting till next August as originally anticipated. :( I was able to lock & map 25-1, -2, -3, -4 & -9 around 7PM Saturday evening with minimal pixalization , then it went blank never to return, I'm still picking up about a 10-30% signal, just a llittle better than I was from the old site on Brookpark, without a lock.

Michael, was not able to get any Guide data here either. ... strange around the same time 19 was pixalating & was down to a 30% signal.

Suprised that they are beaming this to the south as Akron's already is served by 45/49, I'm only 28 miles from the farm, a lot closer than Canton would likely be.

This is indeed 10kw ERP. And they need to protect Canada.

This is indeed 10kw ERP. And they need to protect Canada.

May has well be living in Canada up here... sigh!

Nope. All Cleveland station towers are 10 miles or less to me (antennaweb.org) and not even a hint of a WVIZ-DT signal here. Outdoor rooftop antenna, second floor, no problem picking up all other Cleveland DT stations in the past.

Although now after rescanning to try to pick up WVIZ-DT I've now lost 19-1. :eek:



Same here... what's up with 19?

This is indeed 10kw ERP. And they need to protect Canada.

And WVIZ still serves Akron/Canton, even if they have competition down there. It's a full-market station that serves everywhere from Ashtabula to nearly Mansfield.

For that matter, though "Western Reserve PBS" is mostly focused at Akron/Canton/Youngstown, the 45/49 folks don't ignore Cleveland 100%.

I think many stations in the Parma antenna farm have Canadian issues, no? Since they don't really care about serving Lake Erie, they can pull in the protection.

I think many stations in the Parma antenna farm have Canadian issues, no? Since they don't really care about serving Lake Erie, they can pull in the protection.

They probably do. Parma isn't that far away from the lake, and anyone who's grown up listening to "The Big 8" from Canada knows how well those signals travel across the pond.

The only way you will get what you want with the equipment you have is to purchase Season 1 on DVD. Yes, you would have to spend money.

Or you can get an eSATA for more disk space. But anytime you tranfer HD to DVD unless it's an HD Recorder then that's what you are going to get.

Now with TiVo I can transfer it to my computer, my other TiVo. Also there is bit torrent, but since you can't access bit torrent without burning it to a DVD to play on your set, you get the same results. When I move something from bit torrent to TiVo it shows it in 16X9.

So either get eSATA, or purchase the darn season.

Have you been taking your meds? :p

I asked how the Tivo's output formats work and you did a hookbill(talking about some random, off topic subject). You know, what you used to refer to as a "nickdawg"!

Same here... what's up with 19?

Dunno, but it's been having issues lately with signal strength. When I tune to 19-1 I usually get the "weak or no signal" message but then it does come in after a few seconds and rarely drops out after it tunes in.

Seems 19 is (very soft whisper......) "everywhere" ...... except on our tuners. :D

New Philadelphia TWC here. Lost my 19-1 QAM, saying there is no signal. Anyone know what they are doing? Thanks.

Same here along with channel 43 missing.

I don't know what happened..would be interested in finding out ..

This is indeed 10kw ERP.Really? Seems unlikely. I scanned for it and found that it barely made my meter bounce. More signal than before, but not much more - definitely not enough signal for a lock, not even momentarily. And I'm located in Geauga county with a clear horizon to the west - about 18 miles from the transmitter.

My guess is that they are using the new transmitter, but not yet running it at full power.

WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?

Sunday 10/12 receiving them for the first time EVER in Lorain. However, signal reception is only in 60's range with a 100-mile Channel Master antenna w/amp. It'll lock-in occasionally....so, for me, it's still UNWATCHABLE. I've got D* which I'm pleased with but they've yet to pick-up WVIZ 25.1.
For the record I receive OTA: 3.1 in upper 80's-90, 5.1 & 8.1 mid 90's-100 with 19.1 usually in upper 70's-80's. No PBS OTA option here in Lorain.....well, actually, bad option being here in Lorain period.:rolleyes:

Just a reminder if something awful should happen and you decide to switch channels you can watch LA vs Philadelphia on WUAB. By the time you switch channels I should have a response to my email as to if it will be in HD.:D

Now all this talk this morning about it being a "personal" illness has got me curious. I didn't think it was drugs or anything like that but I thought maybe he has an STD. Still why would that keep him out unless the stress of a football game interferred with antibiotics.?

Well, the rumor mill has it that he has a swollen testicle. It apparently happens more often with infants or young childeren. So I suppose if the swelling goes down enough he may play.

The last time I checked the strength of 25.1 OTA it was 78, but it does drop out fairly frequently.
JJK

My guess is that they are using the new transmitter, but not yet running it at full power.

Keep in mind, 10KW is not that much. On UHF, it's basically lower than low-power digital!

I think you are all expecting a bit too much from this little temporary setup. It's not meant to increase the station's range, really. It's meant to get WVIZ-DT off of the Brookpark Road mini-tower since they sold the place.

It's also only 121 meters above average terrain, where the final antenna will be nearly three times that high. (OK, so the older temporary setup was 30 meters above average terrain ;) )

I'd like to get some feedback about other DVRs(Tivo, D*, E*, etc).

As you know, I'm a huge Boston Legal fan. I was thrilled to see the first episode on WEWHD a few weeks back. I used to have it on VHS from years ago, but accidentally deleted it. Of course I DVRed it when it was on. Anyway, now that recording is eating a chunk of hard drive space(didn't plan on keeping it permanently on DVR) so I decided to dump it to VHS. When I connected the standard Y/W/R audio and video cables to the VCR, all I could get on WEWHD is a letterboxed picture. I tried changing all the settings(Aspect Ratio: 4x3, Picture Size: Zoom, Output Format: 480i). The changes were only applied to the output of the box on the component video channel, not the AV output or the RF output on channel 4. Basically I was hoping the 8300HD(or any other of TWC's HD boxes) would behave like a CECB where the output of HDTV signals was user-defined(to make a normal 4:3 picture, especially on "windowboxed" shows).

I always wanted to get a HDTV STB for my SDTVs back in the day before the networks moved the bugs. When the bugs were in their old position on the HD channels and there was no advertising, an adjustable output would have made it easy to cut off the bug and have a 4:3 bug free picture. Now that the bugs are moved, I wouldn't mind the bug, since the HD signal downconverted to SD looks much better than the regualr SDTV channel.

So my question is, how does your HDTV reception equipment work? Is there a variable SD output? I was very disappointed that I had to record Boston Legal in letterbox.:(

My E* ViP 622 has a variable aspect ratio adjustment that works on the SD outputs (and I presume the HD as well, I don't own an HD screen yet to say for sure). It does "stretch", "partial Zoom" (It reminds me of the old WEWS HD feed where they partially zoomed the picture for awhile a few years ago. I don't know what this one is for unless your 4 x 3 display's overscan is losing too much of the sides) and "full zoom" which is what I use when a 4 x 3 picture is transmitted on an HD channel to totally fill the screen.

The aspect ratio control is a button on the remote, you press the button over and over as it cycles through the 5 choices (the other 2 choices are letterbox w/gray bars and letterbox wth black bars). Note: it only works on a true HD feeds (at least on my SD screen).

I figured with the nice WX they made this move prematurely, if indeed this is the 10KW xmitter, I guess I'll be waiting till next August as originally anticipated. :( I was able to lock & map 25-1, -2, -3, -4 & -9 around 7PM Saturday evening with minimal pixalization , then it went blank never to return, I'm still picking up about a 10-30% signal, just a llittle better than I was from the old site on Brookpark, without a lock.

Michael, was not able to get any Guide data here either. ... strange around the same time 19 was pixalating & was down to a 30% signal.

Suprised that they are beaming this to the south as Akron's already is served by 45/49, I'm only 28 miles from the farm, a lot closer than Canton would likely be.
I finally got the guide data. Since the guide data for my E* 622 comes form the satellite as opposed to PSIP data it took awhile for that data to get to my EPG. It's nice that they do have guide data for many subchannels, including stations they do not carry on satellite. There is one mistake, however. For WVIZ 25-4 they list the same data as the analog service (which is the only service also carried on the satellite as 25-0). In reality 25-4 is "Create", a PBS subchannel that WNEO/WEAO used to carry.

This also means that the analog WVIZ feed is not being sent on any digital subchannel on WVIZ-DT. True, the prime time mirrors the PBS-HD feed, but is not the same programs 24/7. If all I had was an ATSC converter I would be missing WVIZ-TV's programs for part of the day (unless the converter had a pass-through for the analog tuner to pick up WVIZ-TV).

This is the WVIZ-DT line-up:
25-1 = PBS HD
25-2 = The Ohio Channel
25-3 = PBS World
25-4 = Create (erroniously listed on E* receivers with the analog service's guide data)
25-9 = CRRS (an audio only service for the blind. I believe the letters stand for Cleveland Radio Relay Service).

I was up there recently...with my laptop in the Kmart parking lot on Broadview Road, picking up the TSReader capture of WKYC-DT for Trip here.

I drove by the 'KYC site on the way up to WVIZ's apparently now former temporary DT site, and didn't see anything obvious as far as the new joint tower goes...but it's tough to look past all those trees down into the WKYC site while driving past. You can see the big towers and most of the building, but not really anything down on the road level itself.

I'm guessing another laptop-equipped DT tuner trip to that parking lot would net me WVIZ's new temporary 10KW signal. But I'll move one of the CECB's up into the loft first, and aim at Parma...
Hey you were in my 'hood!

If you want a better look at WKYC's transmitter & tower pull into the parking lot to St. Columbkille Church (which happens to be my parrish). There is only one street between the 'KYC property and St. Columbkille's, it's almost as good as driving up 'KYC's driveway into their back yard.

You couldn't see anything from Broadview Rd. because there is a significant terrain downgrade. The St. Columbkille parking lot is on the same downgrade, so you'll see alot more than just the top of the towers (you can also see their doppler radar ball).

They may not need to put up a new tower. 'KYC had a shorter backup tower (that I presume is where WVIZ-DT is on with it's STA antenna). 'KYC could operate form that same short tower as they mount new antennas on the big tower. Then again the big tower is quite old, having been the former tower for WKYC-AM as well as 105.7 before they sold the radio stations off.

Several years ago WJW erected a new tower at their site on the corner of Pleasant Valley and State Roads. I drove past the construction site every day on my way to and from work. If you wanted to get up close and personal with a tower that is the site to visit. There is no buffer zone around that tower, some of the guy wires are awfully close to the street. If that tower ever fell it would be a minor disaster as there are many homes and business nearby.

Keep in mind, 10KW is not that much. On UHF, it's basically lower than low-power digital!

I think you are all expecting a bit too much from this little temporary setup. It's not meant to increase the station's range, really. It's meant to get WVIZ-DT off of the Brookpark Road mini-tower since they sold the place.

It's also only 121 meters above average terrain, where the final antenna will be nearly three times that high. (OK, so the older temporary setup was 30 meters above average terrain ;) )

What Inundated said. And a 10x increase in power does not mean a 10x increase at the receive site. Power drops off with the inverse-square law as soon as it leaves the transmit antenna. Air is a pretty good insulator! ;)

They may not need to put up a new tower. 'KYC had a shorter backup tower (that I presume is where WVIZ-DT is on with it's STA antenna). 'KYC could operate form that same short tower as they mount new antennas on the big tower. Then again the big tower is quite old, having been the former tower for WKYC-AM as well as 105.7 before they sold the radio stations off.


It's my belief and understanding, and I've read, that WKYC will actually be building a new tower for the combined new home of WKYC-DT and WVIZ-DT. My guess is that in addition to the old tower's age, among other things, they're not willing to sacrifice the current WKYC signal on the short tower (either existing analog or digital), even for a few months.

No problem for WVIZ-DT in that regard. :D

(re: WJW)
There is no buffer zone around that tower, some of the guy wires are awfully close to the street. If that tower ever fell it would be a minor disaster as there are many homes and business nearby.

I have driven by WJW's site many times. The tower could fall into homes, it could fall into the Walgreens across the street, and I think there's more development planned there.

What Inundated said. And a 10x increase in power does not mean a 10x increase at the receive site. Power drops off with the inverse-square law as soon as it leaves the transmit antenna. Air is a pretty good insulator! ;)

Yeah, I don't know why folks are expecting miracles with a 10KW antenna so far down from the future permanent antenna's siting. It is better than 1KW from the back of Brookpark Road, but not much.

...
Yeah, I don't know why folks are expecting miracles with a 10KW antenna so far down from the future permanent antenna's siting. It is better than 1KW from the back of Brookpark Road, but not much.

Granted, it's still just an "STA" with emphasis on the "T" as in temporary. However, just moving the tower up the hill, in addition to a taller tower, will bring WVIZ-DT to many more receivers than the original "kluge on Brookpark".

Granted, it's still just an "STA" with emphasis on the "T" as in temporary. However, just moving the tower up the hill, in addition to a taller tower, will bring WVIZ-DT to many more receivers than the original "kluge on Brookpark".

Yep, providing a better signal to you guys in Parma, Seven Hills and other nearby suburbs. Viewers may be able to lock WVIZ-DT as far away as Brecksville and Richfield now!

:D

MLB is HD on WUAB. Except there is a HUGE, ugly "My43" bug in the corner.

MLB is HD on WUAB. Except there is a HUGE, ugly "My43" bug in the corner.

Thanks. Saves me a trip to the HD set upstairs to satisfy my curiosity!

MLB is HD on WUAB. Except there is a HUGE, ugly "My43" bug in the corner.

I didn't see that, but I can confirm it's in Dolby 5.1.

Edit: During the game there is no "MY43" bug at all. No FOX bug either.

I wonder if it's coming in on 1080i or 720p? My televisions are both set for 720p hybrid.

I didn't see that, but I can confirm it's in Dolby 5.1.

Edit: During the game there is no "MY43" bug at all. No FOX bug either.

I wonder if it's coming in on 1080i or 720p? My televisions are both set for 720p hybrid.

Probably 720p. WUAB's native output is 720p. If your box is set to output 1080i only, then it would be 1080i.

Oh, and less than one week until SDV!!!!

Probably 720p. WUAB's native output is 720p. If your box is set to output 1080i only, then it would be 1080i.

Oh, and less than one week until SDV!!!!

Are you sure? That's not how it use to be. It use to be WUAB and WOIO 1080i.

Oh and no letter for me yet. Of course today is Columbus Day.

Edit: TiVo says 720p. But I'm pretty sure it was 1080i in the past.

Keep in mind, 10KW is not that much. On UHF, it's basically lower than low-power digital!

I think you are all expecting a bit too much from this little temporary setup. It's not meant to increase the station's range, really. It's meant to get WVIZ-DT off of the Brookpark Road mini-tower since they sold the place.

It's also only 121 meters above average terrain, where the final antenna will be nearly three times that high. (OK, so the older temporary setup was 30 meters above average terrain ;) )

OK, just a bit disappointed I'll have to wait for August for PBS & the Antiques road show! :)

25 analog was very sparce at times up here untill recently, & not available in Ashtabula County... only if weather permitting :), there is a big void up here. So to 'protect' Canada it is not servicing it's entire area.

They probably do. Parma isn't that far away from the lake, and anyone who's grown up listening to "The Big 8" from Canada knows how well those signals travel across the pond.

Yes I remember the big 8 quite fondly! :)

Oh, but you are talking AM, the big 8 & WJR come in better up here than many of the Cleveland AM stations, in fact CKLW is the only station I can pick up AM coast to Coast in the shop, other than WGY 810, Albany & WHAS 840, Louisville... I cannot recieve WTAM at all.

I have been trying to watch some football on tv tonight. This one team I have never heard of in a long time looks like a top notch team. They are called the Cleveland Browns. When the heck did Cleveland get another football team? I thought they moved to Baltimore. :D

Are you sure? That's not how it use to be. It use to be WUAB and WOIO 1080i.

Oh and no letter for me yet. Of course today is Columbus Day.

Edit: TiVo says 720p. But I'm pretty sure it was 1080i in the past.

WUAB was 1080i under UPN, which was owned by CBS and Paramount. When WUAB became My Network TV, owned by FOX, they adopted the FOX standard of 720p.

I have been trying to watch some football on tv tonight. This one team I have never heard of in a long time looks like a top notch team. They are called the Cleveland Browns. When the heck did Cleveland get another football team? I thought they moved to Baltimore. :D

Cleveland Browns = Giant Killers
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cleveland Browns = Giant Killers
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, I never saw that one coming. I was expecting a massacre, a slaughter tonight...

...OF CLEVELAND!:D

HOLY F...ING S..T, BATMAN!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Think the Browns "are back", or is this a one night only performance?

Honestly, I never saw that one coming. I was expecting a massacre, a slaughter tonight...

...OF CLEVELAND!:D

HOLY F...ING S..T, BATMAN!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Think the Browns "are back", or is this a one night only performance?

Hard to say but when the Browns went up 27-14 in the third quarter I was fully expecting the Giants to come back and win 28-27..

Neat Trvia:According to the Monday Night Football announcers, this is the first time The Giants did not force a turnover or that their opponents did not have to punt at all..since 1936!

I don't know WHAT to say. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief. :eek:
I actually watched most of it while I was doing work on my PC.
They made some pretty decent mistakes, but then kept making up for them with better plays that followed. They played like a Superbowl team... like a really really GOOD superbowl team.

If that tower ever fell it would be a minor disaster as there are many homes and business nearby.

I was surprised the first time I drove past this one... I thought the FCC had restrictions on big towers (1.5x tower height, IIRC) to prevent collateral damage in case they ever came down unexpectedly. I'll have to look up the rules - there must be some legal reason why most towers have lots of empty space around them, but WJW does not...

mike

........Yeah, I don't know why folks are expecting miracles with a 10KW antenna so far down from the future permanent antenna's siting. It is better than 1KW from the back of Brookpark Road, but not much.

We expect to have access for what we are paying for. :D

Funny how all of the free ones that cost me (us) nothing all function as expected.
The one I (we all) pay for can't be used.

Maybe the incoming regime will put the FCC under the Medicare program and all will be fixed! :eek:

Here's what I observed last night:

I was watching FOX on My43. On FOX I was watching ESPN.

I watched a really great baseball game despite a disappointing loss on My43 with excellent PQ. In between innings I switched to FOX and to my disbelief saw they were leading the Giants, which I was sure was temporary 16-10. I heard several sound drop offs.

As I continued to watch FOX in between innings I kept seeing Cleveland with the ball. I saw penalty flags, the likes of which would have caused most teams to lose. Yet everytime they got a penalty they overcame it!

Back to baseball, getting late and Joe Torre makes a bad decision and pulls one of his best pitchers who just healed and Philadelphia comes back from two runs down and takes the lead by two runs.

I take two valium. I had already taken two valium two hours earlier.

I go back to FOX which looks to me like ESPN and further confuses me because the valium has kicked in. Wait, this is ESPN! WTF. Why don't I watch this on ESPN? I start talking to the cat about Torres decision who really doesn't seem very interested since she just wants to sleep. I go back to FOX for the baseball game. Wait, I mean MY43, even though there is the FOX scoreboard throughout the entire night. The only time you knew it was MY43 was when they cut off a FOX commercial to promo their own programs.

Back to football. I see the Browns intercept and run back for a touch down. Eli Manning looked like a p**sy the way he tried to stop the guy running back the ball. Holy crap, they are actually going to beat the Giants. Armegendon is coming. The third seal or whatever has been opened.

Back to baseball. Dodgers try, hit the ball hard, threaten a couple of times but the ball is either hit right at some one or they hit into a double play.

Game ends in a strike out. I'm tired and don't give a flying you know what anymore. I'm happy for all of you guys and sad for myself but also being numb on the valium I'm turning the tv off and going to bed, gratefull I have today off.

Dodgers are down 3 to 1. I tell myself that they can still win this. Wasn't somebody ahead 3 to 0 last year and the other team came back and won four straight? But I think that was in the American League and they don't play real baseball there.

So today and tomorrow and until they are eliminated I will be religious, I will pray for a miracle. Obviously you guys did. Because I'm here to tell you NOBODY makes that many penalties and not only wins the game but kicks their ass too.

Great job Browns. You guys should be proud!

Because I'm here to tell you NOBODY makes that many penalties and not only wins the game but kicks their ass too.

Great job Browns. You guys should be proud!


Coach Crennel uses penalties as a way to control the game. Pretty soon every NFL team will learn to use the penalty like the Browns. Coach Crennel will be remembered as an innovator of the game.

Ray

I got it now---in the huddle---ok Edwards, your turn for illegal motion, then we will have them right where we want them.
JJK

Coach Crennel uses penalties as a way to control the game. Pretty soon every NFL team will learn to use the penalty like the Browns. Coach Crennel will be remembered as an innovator of the game.

Ray

Being a Raider fan for many years now I can tell you that this strategy is not new and will not be successfull in the long term.

You see the basic idea is to move the ball forward, not backward and put all the pressure on the quarterback.

I just thought it was so funny that every time I changed channels there was a yellow flag on the ground! And bam, they responded. Amazing.

But your response was clever.;)

Funny how all of the free ones that cost me (us) nothing all function as expected.
The one I (we all) pay for can't be used.


Heh. Relax, you'll get your WVIZ-DT in full-power glory sometime in the next few months.

Dodgers are down 3 to 1. I tell myself that they can still win this. Wasn't somebody ahead 3 to 0 last year and the other team came back and won four straight? But I think that was in the American League and they don't play real baseball there.

Aside from your crack on the AL...I'm pulling for the Dodgers. They have the ex-Indians factor (though the Phillies are managed by Charlie Manuel). Manny could put a stake in the heart of the Red Sox if you guys win this series and if Boston wins theirs. Casey Blake is there.

I know one Phillies fan, but the Dodgers have one of my former girlfriends pulling for them. I'm still friendly with her, so...go Dodgers!

Aside from your crack on the AL...I'm pulling for the Dodgers. They have the ex-Indians factor (though the Phillies are managed by Charlie Manuel). Manny could put a stake in the heart of the Red Sox if you guys win this series and if Boston wins theirs. Casey Blake is there.

I know one Phillies fan, but the Dodgers have one of my former girlfriends pulling for them. I'm still friendly with her, so...go Dodgers!

Casey Blake hit one out last night to put them ahead for a bit and he also got a single.

Manny has been awesome throughout the series. I know you probably haven't been watching but I think it was in game 2 when whomever was pitching for the Phillies laid one in the zone for him and he hit it out. When he got back to the dugout he hollard out at the pitcher "unless you can throw 95 mph don't try that.":D

He's in the right town, so the Dodgers have got to resign him or I suspect somebody is going to murder the McCourts. Lot's of latinos in the area and he's really demonstrated leadership on the team.

And I appreciate your support. Hey, despite my cracks about the Browns when they are on I pull for them. I'm in a bit of denial, being a Raider fan and a Laker fan I'm use to seeing winners and championships from them as well as the Dodgers. So it's hard for me to imagine the Dodgers haven't even been to a World Series in 20 years. And the Raiders at least went to the Super Bowl in 2003 (I think).

So go Browns but you are going to have to do something about those penalties. And I hope Kellen Winslows nuts shrink to normal size soon.:D

Yep, providing a better signal to you guys in Parma, Seven Hills and other nearby suburbs. Viewers may be able to lock WVIZ-DT as far away as Brecksville and Richfield now!

:D
You :D but it's true, this is not that great of an improvement. I posted earlier that I get a 100% signal, however the dropouts are horrendous. It goes form 100 to 0 for short bursts. That never happens, even on WKBN-DT with only an 80% signal. And it's not my proximity either, since WBNX-DT is my other "hot" signal and it's solid!

LOL. Yeah, I guess I gripe a great deal about cable companies. No doubt.

From what you're saying however I'm still stuck. About this time of the year the Sun is rising in the South East and by my observations, once again, too many trees.

Anyway I'm kind of commited at this point equipment wise. I have a lifetime subscription on my TiVo HD and with SDV coming and the tuner adapter I don't know if I would be willing to make the change.

Add the fact that it's Dish. I'm not certain how good their DVR is. I know they are still in a law suit with TiVo, at least last I heard for stealing some of the designs Tivo uses.

But I do appreciate you letting us know. It may be something to think about further on down the line.

How about due south? DirecTv is almost due south now with the all MPEG-4 HD service. And they have a deal w/TiVO too.

How about due south? DirecTv is almost due south now with the all MPEG-4 HD service. And they have a deal w/TiVO too.

I have a compass and I can receive XM radio due south however when the leaves are full it can get a little touchy and also I don't know where the position of the satellite is for XM.

And like I said I've got too much money invested in the S3 and TiVo HD to make a change at this point. Maybe a few years down the road.

You :D but it's true, this is not that great of an improvement. I posted earlier that I get a 100% signal, however the dropouts are horrendous. It goes form 100 to 0 for short bursts.

IANAE (engineer), but my guess is that WVIZ-DT's second temporary signal still too weak, but it's also too low on the tower. Maybe trees and leaves are getting in the way.

He's in the right town, so the Dodgers have got to resign him or I suspect somebody is going to murder the McCourts. Lot's of latinos in the area and he's really demonstrated leadership on the team.


Let's just hope, for the Dodgers' sake, that Manny Being Manny doesn't turn into lollygagging it if he ever wants to leave Los Angeles...

I am still receiving the 25 series OTA at 78 signal strength. With lots of sporadic dropouts.
JJK

I am still receiving the 25 series OTA at 78 signal strength. With lots of sporadic dropouts.
JJK

If you have access to a UHF preamp and a bandpass filter that's cut for that frequency, that will help considerably. I've seen unusably weak DTV signals pulled out of the mud this way. You just have to decide how much money you want to put into it now vs waiting a few months.

Heh. Relax, you'll get your WVIZ-DT in full-power glory sometime in the next few months.

Yeah, I know, just raz'ing VIZ. ;)

I don't understand the difference between signal strength vs KW power vs reception quality but it is an odd combo on my tuner.

WVIZ-DT usually shows only one "bar" (out of ten) on my tuner's signal meter and has (expected) drops. But if Ch's 3 or 19 ever have four "bars" they drop even more frequently. Why would a weaker WVIZ signal drop less than a stronger 3 or 19 signal?? :confused:

3 & 19 come in quite good now since I went to an outdoor antenna. The four bar comparison above is when I used an attic antenna a while back.

meter and has (expected) drops. But if Ch's 3 or 19 ever have four "bars" they drop even more frequently. Why would a weaker WVIZ signal drop less than a stronger 3 or 19 signal?? :confused:

You might be receiving rflections that are causing phase cancellation. The single biggest enemy of DTV signals is multipath reflections. As your antenna picks up the main signal along with reflections of the signal that are bouncing off of buildings, those reflections can arrive either in-phase with the main signal, causing a brief increase in signal power, or out-of-phase, causing a partial (or complete) cancellation of the main signal lobe.

Think about what happens when you're watching analog tv with rabbit ears ana plane goes by overhead. Multiple reflections build up as the plane moves by, alternately adding to and cancelling the signal. On an analog set, it shows up as a visual flutter, ghosting and a "fwip fwip" in the audio. When the same phenomenon happens to a DTV signal, some of the 1s turn into 0s and vice versa, completely corrupting the checksums for the individual bytes of data, causing the tv's decoder to reject those bad bytes, which in turn causes a blank screen. Analog TVs flicker and flutter but digital sets go over the cliff when the signal gets bad enough. That's why a highly directional antenna is your friend.
:)

VHF signals seem to be a lot less resilient than UHF signals. Electrical spikes can cause drops in signal when there's more signal available.

WBRA-DT will drop out on me even when it's maxing out the meter sometimes, like when light switches get turned on and whatnot.

- Trip

VHF signals seem to be a lot less resilient than UHF signals. Electrical spikes can cause drops in signal when there's more signal available.

WBRA-DT will drop out on me even when it's maxing out the meter sometimes, like when light switches get turned on and whatnot.

- Trip

Apparently the spectral distribution of EMI sources such as electrical contacts in switches and motors tends to slant towards the lower end of the spectrum. Probably the same reason why lightning strikes sound louder at the low end of the AM radio band than the high end, receiver sensitivity notwithstanding.

And in my opinion interference from digital tv stations far away on the same channel will raise hell with dropouts on the viewing channel with occasional probagation anomolies. (ducting of long range signals 200 miles away). The problem with digital is it's either one or the other, not both. Multipath coupled with these anomolies are going to be a pain in the neck for OTA people.
JJK

And in my opinion interference from digital tv stations far away on the same channel will raise hell with dropouts on the viewing channel with occasional probagation anomolies. (ducting of long range signals 200 miles away). The problem with digital is it's either one or the other, not both. Multipath coupled with these anomolies are going to be a pain in the neck for OTA people.
JJK

The thing that's kind of interesting about this in my opinion is people who are not into this technology change as much as you guys are already aware. I was talking to a woman I work with who's already seen the conversion box and the problems of getting any channel in certain situations.

For the working person struggling to keep their head above water the last thing they want to do is find out that now they need to go out an either buy a different antenna other then the rabbit ears that they get by on just fine or have to subscribe to cable.

If you have a "snowy picture" now that does not guarantee a lock on a station. I use to be able to at least see and hear channel 3 before I got the digital converter. Now I can't get it period.

Wow, reading these last few posts, TWC should pay us!!

This is a great ad for cable, with all the talk of OTA reception problems and interference problems. Plus not being able to get channels currently available.

I'm glad I have cable!! :D

Wow, reading these last few posts, TWC should pay us!!

This is a great ad for cable, with all the talk of OTA reception problems and interference problems. Plus not being able to get channels currently available.

I'm glad I have cable!! :D
Guess what? If your cable company is getting their local stations OTA they will experience the same problems. It's the same argument with satellite and rain fade. If a storm is large enough it will knockout satellite reception to the cable company too.

Unless the cable company has all fiber-optic connections to every channel they carry there will be interruptions in programing under certain atmospheric conditions.

Years ago there was a local "cable company" that serviced a high-rise complex. They got 100% of their signals OTA off the roof of the building. When I explained to a senior citizen who lived in that building that the signals were being picked up by antennas on the roof he complained that he should not be charged since they were using antennas. He actually believed that those extra stations from Erie PA and London Ontario came in to the building via a wire all the way from the source of the signals!

Cable companies have the same problem all companies have - the current state of the economy means consumers will cut luxuries before necessities. Cable is a luxury, as is satellite, and for that matter, so is spending money fixing your antenna system/buying new antennas to fix reception problems.

We'll see what people do to keep their "Deal or No Deal".

Comcast, I think it is, is offering basically free basic/lifeline cable to customers who get their Internet or phone services...or $10/mo. for non-customers. Of course, Comcast got swallowed locally into the TWC empire...

Guess what? If your cable company is getting their local stations OTA they will experience the same problems. It's the same argument with satellite and rain fade. If a storm is large enough it will knockout satellite reception to the cable company too.

Rain fade is highly exaggerated. I had satellite for years and it hardly caused me any problems at all. Of course for a few of those years I lived in Los Angeles.;) But the majority of the time I was in Northern Kentucky and it rains alot there.

Unless the cable company has all fiber-optic connections to every channel they carry there will be interruptions in programing under certain atmospheric conditions.

The local channels supposedly are fiber optic.

Years ago there was a local "cable company" that serviced a high-rise complex. They got 100% of their signals OTA off the roof of the building. When I explained to a senior citizen who lived in that building that the signals were being picked up by antennas on the roof he complained that he should not be charged since they were using antennas. He actually believed that those extra stations from Erie PA and London Ontario came in to the building via a wire all the way from the source of the signals!

Now that's pretty funny!:D

Guess what? If your cable company is getting their local stations OTA they will experience the same problems. It's the same argument with satellite and rain fade. If a storm is large enough it will knockout satellite reception to the cable company too.

Unless the cable company has all fiber-optic connections to every channel they carry there will be interruptions in programing under certain atmospheric conditions.

Direct fiber connections from the studios to the cable companies are becoming much more commonplace. And for off-air pickup, they generally use tower mounted, directional, amplified, bandpassed antennas that are the size of a buick. Much more fade margin there. :)

What a day... WKYC launched a new graphics/music package (http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/2008/10/directors-alert-wkyc-launches-new-look.html) on air the other day. Also, Tim White is leaving WKYC (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2008/10/this-just-in-tim-white-leaving-wkyc-at.html) later this year. And let's not forget that TWC NE Ohio is set to begin SDV broadcast on Monday 10/20. I know the thread has been bogged down with all this OTA talk lately, but I'm surprised this place isn't buzzing as much as I expected.

Good bye Tim White! Your smug attitude will not be missed.

Good bye Tim White! Your smug attitude will not be missed.

Hard to believe he found a better paying acting job. You wonder who's gonna help Romona thru the newscast now?

I know the thread has been bogged down with all this OTA talk lately, but I'm surprised this place isn't buzzing as much as I expected.

More like the thread has taken on a REFRESHING departure from cabletalk!

More like the thread has taken on a REFRESHING departure from cabletalk!

Agreed. nickdawg, do you realize how often we monopolize this thread? I was glad to see the OTA people talking for a while, even if I didn't understand much of what they had to say. I even tried to participate a bit becaues I'm somewhat effected by this upcoming change. This is not the TWC NEO forum, it's Cleveland, OH-HDTV. Youre use of the terminology of "bogged down" was a bit insulting to the other folks.

And for what it's worth there has been still no mention or letter in my neighborhood about SDV. And why are you so excited about it? It would be different if they were to say, "and in two weeks we will have 10 new HD channels."

To all the OTA and satellite people out there I won't actually apololgize for us using the forum to the extent that we have recently, but certainly burgher point taken.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/FCC-Fines-Cox-Time-Warner-For-CableCARD-Screw-Ups-98487

FCC-Fines-Cox-Time-Warner-For-CableCARD-Screw-Ups

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/FCC-Fines-Cox-Time-Warner-For-CableCARD-Screw-Ups-98487

FCC-Fines-Cox-Time-Warner-For-CableCARD-Screw-Ups

Yeah, it's being discussed over on the TiVo thread. It's funny how one person refers to TiVo as "outdated technology" when in fact it's the box that they are offering that is technically limited. Anyway the digital converter will solve that issue.

Agreed. nickdawg, do you realize how often we monopolize this thread? I was glad to see the OTA people talking for a while, even if I didn't understand much of what they had to say. I even tried to participate a bit becaues I'm somewhat effected by this upcoming change. This is not the TWC NEO forum, it's Cleveland, OH-HDTV. You're use of the terminology of "bogged down" was a bit insulting to the other folks.

And for what it's worth there has been still no mention or letter in my neighborhood about SDV. And why are you so excited about it? It would be different if they were to say, "and in two weeks we will have 10 new HD channels."

To all the OTA and satellite people out there I won't actually apololgize for us using the forum to the extent that we have recently, but certainly burgher point taken.

You're right hook, you (almost)always are! I am a bit less than nice to the OTA people. This place has really opened my eyes. I actually used to say "who uses OTA anymore" and I was really shocked how many do---for HDTV. But I really do like this kind of talk, as alot of technical information comes out(like how much bandwidth is wasted on subchannels:mad:).

Baby steps, baby steps. Getting a properly working SDV system gets us one step closer to adding more HDTV. TWC needs positive reinforcement for doing the right thing.

Well I will. I'll apologize for the off color comment I made in an earlier post.

I even brought in the information about Tim White leaving and WKYC's new look in hopes of expanding the scope of this thread to HDTV on air. I see smartypants and burgher discussed it.

Years ago there was a local "cable company" that serviced a high-rise complex. They got 100% of their signals OTA off the roof of the building. When I explained to a senior citizen who lived in that building that the signals were being picked up by antennas on the roof he complained that he should not be charged since they were using antennas. He actually believed that those extra stations from Erie PA and London Ontario came in to the building via a wire all the way from the source of the signals!


I was in a High Rise Apt years back there was a 22 channel system with an On Demand menu, I believe this was provided by the complex as likely part of the rent since I never saw a bill.

I'm in a condo now as part of the bylaws I had to explain to the management company that the antenna was part of the deal with my monthly maintenance fee when the antenna was struck by lightning (subsequencially taking out 2 of my VCR's tuners & one complete VCR... even being on an arrestor). I've noticed as these places are being re-roofed the antennas on many of the buildings are gone. Me & one other person in my building are currently using the lone antenna. I'm wondering if I would be allowed to place my own areal if the antenna goes bye bye, seeing they changed the bylaws to allow individual satalite dishes fro individual units on the roof now?

@ hookbill, I don't understand 95% of the cable banter myself! :)

What a day... WKYC launched a new graphics/music package (http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/2008/10/directors-alert-wkyc-launches-new-look.html) on air the other day. Also, Tim White is leaving WKYC (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2008/10/this-just-in-tim-white-leaving-wkyc-at.html) later this year. And let's not forget that TWC NE Ohio is set to begin SDV broadcast on Monday 10/20. I know the thread has been bogged down with all this OTA talk lately, but I'm surprised this place isn't buzzing as much as I expected.

Only on HD? Speaking of OTA, any new plans for the use or future use of subs?? I thought I read in this forum months back that WBNX was going to launch a 55-2 Sub.

No, WVIZ as of yet, though I have a equal or better chance of getting 49, which isn't much. what is the timeline for VIZ to increase their power?

Cable companies have the same problem all companies have - the current state of the economy means consumers will cut luxuries before necessities. Cable is a luxury, as is satellite, and for that matter, so is spending money fixing your antenna system/buying new antennas to fix reception problems.

We'll see what people do to keep their "Deal or No Deal".

Comcast, I think it is, is offering basically free basic/lifeline cable to customers who get their Internet or phone services...or $10/mo. for non-customers. Of course, Comcast got swallowed locally into the TWC empire...

Darn right a luxury, Only the Antenna repair is a one time shot. The few neighbors I knew here that went into foreclosure all had Cadillac Cable, cell phones & vehicles they likely couldn't afford.

I think that lifeline cable you speak of is a basic 15 channel setup for around $15/month. Speaking of which the salesman at circuit city told me he had this & TWC told him he would need an OTA SDTV STB converter box to continue this package... what gives?

No, WVIZ as of yet, though I have a equal or better chance of getting 49, which isn't much. what is the timeline for VIZ to increase their power?

They filed a new 387 with the FCC yesterday which implies they plan to have it on by the end of December, barring unforseen delays.

- Trip

Apparently the spectral distribution of EMI sources such as electrical contacts in switches and motors tends to slant towards the lower end of the spectrum. Probably the same reason why lightning strikes sound louder at the low end of the AM radio band than the high end, receiver sensitivity notwithstanding.

Funny though I can only pick up the Low AM in my shop, I pretty much lose everything except the local Painesville station after WBZ 1130, with only one FM station out of Geneva.

If you have access to a UHF preamp and a bandpass filter that's cut for that frequency, that will help considerably. I've seen unusably weak DTV signals pulled out of the mud this way. You just have to decide how much money you want to put into it now vs waiting a few months.

I'm testing a cheap 12db gain amp, improves analog UHF quite a bit but haven't noticed any signal increase on Digital UHF.

Only on HD? Speaking of OTA, any new plans for the use or future use of subs?? I thought I read in this forum months back that WBNX was going to launch a 55-2 Sub.

No, WVIZ as of yet, though I have a equal or better chance of getting 49, which isn't much. what is the timeline for VIZ to increase their power?

Originally WBNX wanted to launch another channel to feed a digital SD to cable companies, but that's moot now that the DTV transition is coming and the HD digital feed will be downconverted for SDTV. Which is a shame that it took WBNX so long to get that HD feed going, we could have had a better PQ on WBNX all these years. SD on cable looks awful.

There was also talk years back, when DTV was still a "new" thing, about running a second channel that would be a dedicated religious channel for Angeley's show. Of course that was back when his show still had primetime exposure.

They filed a new 387 with the FCC yesterday which implies they plan to have it on by the end of December, barring unforseen delays.

- Trip

Cool! :)... I must be just out of the range to lock it presently.

Originally WBNX wanted to launch another channel to feed a digital SD to cable companies, but that's moot now that the DTV transition is coming and the HD digital feed will be downconverted for SDTV. Which is a shame that it took WBNX so long to get that HD feed going, we could have had a better PQ on WBNX all these years. SD on cable looks awful.

There was also talk years back, when DTV was still a "new" thing, about running a second channel that would be a dedicated religious channel for Angeley's show. Of course that was back when his show still had primetime exposure.

So we are not missing much then??

WBNX is the one station I'm having trouble with (along with 19), on my attic antenna.... analog comes in great but no digital.:(

Cool! :)... I must be just out of the range to lock it presently.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1273548&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=18753

That's the filing with the FCC. I think the form was filled out incorrectly; the field about when they expect construction to be completed specifies 11/17/08, but they mention at the bottom of the form not having it operational until December. Unless I'm the one misunderstanding what it means, that is.

Here's their filing from July:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1256577&Service=TV&Form_id=387&Facility_id=18753

You'll note that it has a nice timeline at the bottom which specifies 12/19/08 as a date, and then "full-power testing" until 02/17/09. I'm guessing that means they'll be on the air with it but could go down unexpectedly if they find problems.

- Trip

Keeping with the new theme of on-air stories, I think channel 5 is also changing as well. Lately I've noticed that the "News Chanel 5" is missing from their commercials. Starting with the Bonnie Hunt Show and now Oprah, they say WEWS-5 instead. Also, I've seen a bug similar to the "ABC7" bugs except with the ABC logo and the circle 5 logo next to it. I also saw it on the news promos today. I wonder if WEWS might start banding similar to ABC O&Os as "ABC5"?

I really hope they do. I hate "News Channel 5". It is old and outdated. Plus it's been kicked around during many image and talent changes. A change to ABC 5 would be refreshing. Something new in the style of O&O, always a plus.

Keeping with the new theme of on-air stories, I think channel 5 is also changing as well. Lately I've noticed that the "News Chanel 5" is missing from their commercials. Starting with the Bonnie Hunt Show and now Oprah, they say WEWS-5 instead. Also, I've seen a bug similar to the "ABC7" bugs except with the ABC logo and the circle 5 logo next to it. I also saw it on the news promos today. I wonder if WEWS might start banding similar to ABC O&Os as "ABC5"?

I really hope they do. I hate "News Channel 5". It is old and outdated. Plus it's been kicked around during many image and talent changes. A change to ABC 5 would be refreshing. Something new in the style of O&O, always a plus.

Scripts Broadcasting, which owns channel 5 started doing that before I left Cincinnati to "News Channel 9", also ABC.

That guy who does the "Don't waste your money" thing on Channel 5? He is actually in Cincinnati. He asked if he could do an interview with me on how I could save money on having services done provided by Ohio companies and avoiding sales taxes. I told him OK but I didn't want them in the house.

I guess he didn't like that. He never contacted me after that.

But it will still be owned by Scripts.

Scripts Broadcasting, which owns channel 5 started doing that before I left Cincinnati to "News Channel 9", also ABC.

That guy who does the "Don't waste your money" thing on Channel 5? He is actually in Cincinnati. He asked if he could do an interview with me on how I could save money on having services done provided by Ohio companies and avoiding sales taxes. I told him OK but I didn't want them in the house.

I guess he didn't like that. He never contacted me after that.

But it will still be owned by Scripts.

Jeez, hook, you sound like a celebrity. I remember you said something about being on WJW or having a letter read?

And a look at WXYZ shows they are already using the ABC style branding, with the circle 7 and the ABC bug. It would be nice to see in Cleveland too.

Jeez, hook, you sound like a celebrity. I remember you said something about being on WJW or having a letter read?



Yeah, I'm a legend in my own mind.:rolleyes:

It is true, several times I've had my emails read on FOX 8 News in the morning. But it's been a while, the last time they read one I think they were talking about American Idol and I said something like "I've never watched it because I never need to since you practically rebroadcast the next morning. I'm glad (who ever it was) won. Now please cancel the show."

Jeez, hook, you sound like a celebrity. I remember you said something about being on WJW or having a letter read?

And a look at WXYZ shows they are already using the ABC style branding, with the circle 7 and the ABC bug. It would be nice to see in Cleveland too.
WXYZ has been using the 7 in a circle logo forever. I used to visit family in Detroit back in the 80's and the 7 in a circle was used way back then. If I did not know otherwise, I would have thought WXYZ was an ABC O&O. It took the "great FOX Swap" of '94 for me to learn that WXYZ was NOT an ABC O&O. ABC feared that CBS was going to buy WXYZ so they ended up buying VHF stations in Toledo and Flint/Saganaw/Bay City DMA's to act as "rim shots" to Detroit should CBS bump them off 7. As a result they are the smallest markets with an O&O.

CBS ended up on ch 62! That has to be the highest frequency of any O&O. I know that will be a moot point after the transition but for ~15 years Detroit's CBS was up in the nose bleed section with all the shopping and Spanish channels.

Just to clarify about the "Don't Waste Your Money" segments his name is John Materese and the reason he contacted me was because I emailed him. I had a lawn tractor at that time and I lived in Northern Kentucky. My service was coming out of a town North of Cincinnati and they wanted to charge me sales tax. I challanged that and the company came back and said I was right. From that point on if I needed any "service" like duct cleaning, chimney, etc. I always went to Ohio because there was no sales tax they can charge on a service if they are out of state. I told him about that in my email which peaked his interest.

This guy is really tight. But he's very smart on how to save a buck.

Right now I am receiving 25.1 and 49.1 OTA and the 25.1 is hanging as steady as 49.1. One wonders when the final switch to DTV occurrs if the channel numbers will remain as they are or will they simplify them instead of punching in all this .1, .2 stuff which drives old people nuts. Old people don't like remotes with small buttons, unlighted buttons, excessive amount of buttons that are never used, etc. They only want "on/off", channel select +-, "sound mute", "volume", "input select", and nothing else.
JJK

From Ben Music (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14897006&postcount=4953):

Hey guys,
I was just wondering if tomorrow was still SDV day?

Ben Music

I still have not got a letter, but if they do it since SARA boxes are SDV capable (or at least they are suppose to be - they arn't capable of doing anything with dependability so who knows) we might very well see it here in the Northeast part of the TWNEO area.

Just a reminder, here's the channels:

Existing channels that will be delivered using SDV beginning 10/20/08

1 Movieloft
185 Access TV
186 Shopping
187 Cable Response TV
188 Gems TV
189 America's Auction Network
190 Hollywood Celebrity Products
191 Celebrity Shopping
192 TV Superstore
193 The Jewelry Channel
194 Shoping
281 Sundance
282 Flix
290 Encore
291 Encore Love
292 Encore Mysteries
293 Encore Drama
294 Encore WAM!
295 Encore Westerns
296 Encore Action
319 FCS Atlantic
320 FCS Central
321 FCS Pacific
322 College Sports TV
324 NHL Network
325 NBA TV
327 Tennis Channel
328 Fuel TV
329 G4
330 Outdoor Channel
350 CNN
351 Headline News
352 Fox News
354 MSNBC
355 CNBC
370 Weather Channel
385 EWTN
399 TWC Infomercials
435 STOHD
436 FSN HD
470 Universal HD
471 HDNet
472 HDNet Movies
473 Mojo
610 HBO W
611 HBO2 W
612 HBO Signature W
613 HBO Family W
614 HBO Comedy W
615 HBO Zone W
710 HD PPV Events
741-754 NHL Center Ice/MLB
761-770 NBA/MLS Sport Packages
781-786 ESPN GamePlan / Full Court
801 GalaVision
805 mun2
806 Canal Sur
807 Cnn en Espanol
808 History en Espanol
809 Discover en Espanol
810 La Familia
811 Toon Disney en Espanol
812 Boomerang en Espanol
813 ESPN Deportes
814 Fox Sports en Espanol
815 MTV Tr3s
816 CineLatino
850 International MOD
851 ART Arabic
852 RAI International
853 TV Asia
854 DW TV
855 Zee TV
857 Filipino Channel
858 TV5Monde
859 TV Japan
860 TV Russia

Now I will guarantee you that if they do this in Los Angeles TW is going to get hit with another fine. Los Angeles, is primarily Latinos. And I grew up with them and fine people they are indeed, but they take a lot of pride in their heritage. While I know of many of them who will say "if you live in America, speak English" there are a great deal who feel that they should continue to use Espanol. Many teach their childeren both languages. Some just teach them Spanish and they learn English at school.

And they have some powerful political pull. Some of the County Supervisors are hispanic and they would not be happy about this.

There are a great deal of Oriental people as well, Vietnamese and Korean. It's truly a dervisified culture.

That's also the reason there is such great places to eat in L.A. ;)

We're now on the eve of the SDV change :D and still no mention of it on TWC's website. I guess the only way non-Tivo viewers will notice tomorrow is if any of the news channels or HBO west channels have tuning problems because of SDV, in that case I think they'd put the analog versions of CNN, MSNBC etc. back up.

We're now on the eve of the SDV change :D and still no mention of it on TWC's website. I guess the only way non-Tivo viewers will notice tomorrow is if any of the news channels or HBO west channels have tuning problems because of SDV, in that case I think they'd put the analog versions of CNN, MSNBC etc. back up.

They split many of those channels, so that some are analog and some are digital and use the SDV. They spoke about that in the TiVo Forum in the Austin thread and it's in the list that I posted a while back.

Since I still get Universal if I don't see it tomorrow then that may be why. So all of the news channels will still be available. If Universal is gone tomorrow that may be a clue.

I'll take a look at some of the other digital channels, if they are on the lower tier, just to see if they are available and let you know.

But really, how important is it if they arn't offering new HD channels? And as far as their website goes, be serious, they do not keep that thing updated at all.

They split many of those channels, so that some are analog and some are digital and use the SDV. They spoke about that in the TiVo Forum in the Austin thread and it's in the list that I posted a while back.

That's what I mean. If the digital SDV channel isn't working on the boxes, they'll have to revert back to the analog version, seen on TVs without STBs.

Since I still get Universal if I don't see it tomorrow then that may be why. So all of the news channels will still be available. If Universal is gone tomorrow that may be a clue.

Maybe that's why they didn't turn it off when you canceled the other HD tier channels, it's not going to work on either of your Tivos anyway :p Universal HD is still turned off here.

But really, how important is it if they arn't offering new HD channels? And as far as their website goes, be serious, they do not keep that thing updated at all.

It is important. SDV is the key to more HD. Once it is in place and working properly, the HD channels will start lighting up.

It is important. SDV is the key to more HD. Once it is in place and working properly, the HD channels will start lighting up.

See, that's where you're wrong.

If they had HD channels that they wanted to offer us, they could add them now. They are not out of bandwith. If anything they have more then they did before. They proved that when they provided USAHD and the Olympic Soccer channel.

So while I believe it is true that they are going to eventually start SDV, I don't think it's going to start tomorrow in all areas and I don't think you are going to see a huge amount of additional HD added.

nickdawg cable companies are evil. They could care less about providing quality HD programing to us. They will provide whatever they can get at the cheapest rate.

Just don't want you to get your hopes up to high.

I'll give you a report tomorrow.

Do you see the NFL Network? Nope, and you probably won't.

I made a comment a while back that WBNX comes in as Dolby 5.1 but I never get a signal from my back speakers.

The other day I had a little power problem with my TiVo HD and I was recording an episode of "Supernatural." I missed about 45 minutes of the show. So I did try to find it on Amazon Unbox but they don't have it.

I spotted a copy of it in 720p. Now this is the first time I ever saw bit torrent in 720p format and I wasn't sure if my TiVo would even play it because it wasn't a .avi file, but it downloaded and played just fine.

With Dolby 5.1. And my back speakers were getting signals!

I think this may have been picked up from a New York station, it was channel 11 but it really pisses me off. This means that WBNX is not properly sending out the Dolby 5.1 signal.

Now I can't call them up or write them and say, "Hey dudes, I downloaded a BT the other day and it had my back speakers fired up just great," because they may worry about what I do with the file afterwards (I trashed it).

So we are getting ripped off from WBNX. We are missing real Dolby 5.1 that should be available from other shows.

If anybody has an idea about what I might do, please respond. Send the CW an email?

I made a comment a while back that WBNX comes in as Dolby 5.1 but I never get a signal from my back speakers.

The other day I had a little power problem with my TiVo HD and I was recording an episode of "Supernatural." I missed about 45 minutes of the show. So I did try to find it on Amazon Unbox but they don't have it.

I spotted a copy of it in 720p. Now this is the first time I ever saw bit torrent in 720p format and I wasn't sure if my TiVo would even play it because it wasn't a .avi file, but it downloaded and played just fine.

With Dolby 5.1. And my back speakers were getting signals!

I think this may have been picked up from a New York station, it was channel 11 but it really pisses me off. This means that WBNX is not properly sending out the Dolby 5.1 signal.

Now I can't call them up or write them and say, "Hey dudes, I downloaded a BT the other day and it had my back speakers fired up just great," because they may worry about what I do with the file afterwards (I trashed it).

So we are getting ripped off from WBNX. We are missing real Dolby 5.1 that should be available from other shows.

If anybody has an idea about what I might do, please respond. Send the CW an email?

Just tell them you got the show on HD-DVD(or regular DVD), those are usually true 5.1. Or use the power of the forum. Go to the main HDTV forums and ask in the Supernatural one. Then you have the statements of viewers in other markets to back up the fact the show IS 5.1.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=580328&page=22

I already asked the question. Maybe we'll get an answer.

Now onto the HD. They were able to add three new channels, two only broadcast part of the time. Now another channel has been added, BTN HD. For whatever reason, they're not adding anything now. Maybe SDV will change their minds. We'll have to wait until tomorrow to see.

Now onto the HD. They were able to add three new channels, two only broadcast part of the time. Now another channel has been added, BTN HD. For whatever reason, they're not adding anything now. Maybe SDV will change their minds. We'll have to wait until tomorrow to see.

Wow, that peaks my interest.:rolleyes: Hope that goes on SDV immediately.

What channel #is this on? I don't even have BTN as a channel marked to show on my TiVo's so I don't know where it wold be in the guide. And what are the "part time" channels? Fishing HD? Watching the Grass Grow HD?

The second one is looking outside your window, nickdawg. Yeah, HDTV is that good.:D

At least not in my area. However thanks alot guys, as I was exploring around I found out I deliberately unchecked the jewlery channel and gemstone channel which even though it isn't available on the digital basic, is avaialable digital channels.:confused: It's not in the analog range.

Now my wife wants a box for upstairs.:(

And as far as BTN HD, assuming you mean BET HD I've looked at every blank HD channel and I don't see any listing for it. I physically pushed the channel buttons and nothing that isn't on my guide does not show up except for the Premium HD Channels I don't pay for and the upper tier HD.

And Universal HD is still coming in fine, thank you.:)

I know the day just started but nothing here yet. I'll try and check before I leave.

One other thing. In the 400 range I figure there is about 50 channels available for HD at this time. I'm doing that based off TW's guide.

Hook, BTN is Big Ten Network... I get them in the 400's above ESPN.

Hook, BTN is Big Ten Network... I get them in the 400's above ESPN.

Whoops, I thought nickdawg was talking about something that was added AFTER that. Yep that I get no problem.

Officially it's BTNO HD. But thanks for letting me know, however my feeling doesn't change about that being added. I don't watch college sports really. I like to needle you guys if USC or UCLA beats Ohio States but I really don't watch it.

Speaking about sports, how 'bout them Browns yesterday. Derrick Anderson has got to go, he couldn't throw anything. And now I am convinced, Romeo Crennel has got to go. He made some real bad decisions not only yesterday but throughout the season.

The only way to save the Browns in their present state is to hire the Big Tuna. He would not tolerate the inconsistancy of D.A. and the "staph infections" that permeate the Browns facilities. The defense is satisfactory to me as they kept them in the game the whole time. Romeo is getting so fat he can hardly walk.
JJK

Officially it's BTNO HD.

That may be it's designation in the guide, but BTN is the widely accepted acronym for the Big Ten Network.

I Talked to TW on friday about changing some of the stuff I get..and while on the phone I asked about any new HD channels coming and I was told that we are always looking to add new HD channels but its expensive to do so.

I said..how can that be look what Dish/Direct give you. And was told but you have to pay for them unlike TW.

I said then put them on a Pay level so I have some kind of option to get more HD channels if I want them...

He didn't have much to say after that..

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I said..how can that be look what Dish/Direct give you. And was told but you have to pay for them unlike TW.

Ok, with satellite service (including all non-premium HD channels) they are STILL cheaper than TW with limited HD channels. Now who's paying more? :rolleyes:

I said then put them on a Pay level so I have some kind of option to get more HD channels if I want them...

He didn't have much to say after that..



Neither would I. ABSOLUTELY NOT. If they added HD channels... and made me pay MORE to get them, I'd completely cancel TWC and go OTA. I'm already pissed at s..t like the "Sports Tier", "Choice Tier" and "HDTV Tier" that charge more for channels, some I used to get. DIY and Fine Living used to be included. They're not the best channels, but I'm pissed that the rates have increased AND I get less. I kinda liked the DIY channel, but I'm not paying $5 more to get it. Same goes with anything else. Go ahead and move it, you're not getting more $$$ out of me.

That's also why I'm happy NFL network is holding out on TWC. TWC wants to use NFL N to extort more out of its customers by putting it in a pay tier. I don't care if adding the NFL Network will raise all our prices, prices will rise anyway. TWC raises prices at least once a year for no reason. At least adding channels would be a valid reason. F**K TWC for wanting to make US pay more for games that should be on a cable network available on the standard digital tier.

Will be watching closely for SDV rollout to occur. While I don't have a TIVO, I do have two TV's with cable cards that are used all the time. These are not supposed to work with SDV also. If I need the channels that go to SDV, then I will be looking for Tru2way sets next, and a course a $$ refund for the channels that I am paying for and can't get anymore. Cable boxes are not an option for me.

Will be watching closely for SDV rollout to occur. While I don't have a TIVO, I do have two TV's with cable cards that are used all the time. These are not supposed to work with SDV also. If I need the channels that go to SDV, then I will be looking for Tru2way sets next, and a course a $$ refund for the channels that I am paying for and can't get anymore. Cable boxes are not an option for me.

I am in the same boat as you. I have 3 TVs with cable cards and 2 Sony HD DVRs with cable cards. I will also be looking for Tru2way if SDV negatively affects me as neither cable boxes nor Tivo is an option for me.

what is SDV....

I probably asked before but I can't remember..and how is this suppose to make TV better..

thanks..

what is SDV....

I probably asked before but I can't remember..and how is this suppose to make TV better..

thanks..

Switched Digital Video.

Google it, I don't have time to explain it to you. Or go to Wikipedia.

I am in the same boat as you. I have 3 TVs with cable cards and 2 Sony HD DVRs with cable cards. I will also be looking for Tru2way if SDV negatively affects me as neither cable boxes nor Tivo is an option for me.

I'm hearing that the new televisions don't have cable cards. Mine's fairly new, I'll have to check.

And the "digital converter" isn't set up for televisions with cable cards. TiVo only.

I have an LCD 37LG30 television. My television has a digital tuner and does not have cable card slots.

I still don't have a handle on what exactly Tru2way is, but if I pulled the cable from my TiVo and hooked it up to the television, I would assume that the hardware will allow me to have digital television and would have 2 way communication.

As of right now, 10/20/08 8:35 PM, I am getting info on the SDV screen. Haven't checked each channel yet, though.

And this leads into yet another Nickdawg's Special Comment:

Now, I get into the editorial part of this commentary. My bigger fear is that TWC will "slow down" on switched digital video technology after the fools at the FCC have fined cable systems for implementing SDV. THIS is the reason cable sucks!! It's not because of the cable company itself, but the ridiculous, unfair, ass-backwards regulations of the government. The playing field is truly not level. Cable is held to a different standard than satellite. Cable is forced to follow pointless rules such as "must carry" and certain channels must be kept "in the clear" for customers who choose not to have a settop box. Satellite TV is not held to these standards. IPTV systems, FIOS, Uverse are not forced to follow arbitrary, archaic rules either. With a satellite TV system, either you use THEIR box on the TVs you want service on or you get NOTHING. Cable TV SHOULD be allowed to operate in the same manner. No more analog channels for the cheap asses who don't want to spring for a STB that's only $7 more a month. Killing analog TV services, ALL OF THEM, would free up enough bandwidth and SDV may not even be necessary. Plus eliminating outdated, garbage services would open up bandwidth for improving services like internet. And using SDV would make the freed up bandwidth even more efficient, meaning HUNDREDS of new HD services: channels and VOD when they become available. And better PQ since channels will not have to be "packed" into limited bandwidth.

But no. Cable must cater to the lowest of the low. Everybody else has to yield to the Joe Six Packs and their offbrand 19inch TV sets from 1989, running just analog channels. Because J6P will be angry if the Oxygen, WE, Shopping and NASCAR/Trucks channel isn't available without one of "them new fangled VCR recordin machines with the fancy space remote". Cable must also cater to the insufferable individuals who must go against the grain and use one of these "Cable Ready TVs". Oh no, cable cannot just build their network around their Scientific Atlanta boxes and the SARA software, but they must also make THEIR network compatible with third-party equipment. And with the increasing technologies that can be delivered over the cable TV network, not only does the physical infrastructure need to be replaced, but all the new software and services have to conform to third party equipment. Something satellite does not.

what is SDV....

I probably asked before but I can't remember..and how is this suppose to make TV better..

thanks..

Switched Digital Video. Long story short, it's a way to cook the books in the bandwidth department so more channels can be added to a network with limited bandwidth(ie cable). SDV uses a two-way communication similar to VOD to download the "stream" of the channel you want to watch/record. This way bandwidth is saved by not sending EVERY channel to EVERY viewer. With less watched channels, the extra bandwidth can be reclaimed to add more HDTV channels.

No more analog channels for the cheap asses who don't want to spring for a STB that's only $7 more a month.

Disclaimer: I'm an OTA viewer, I know nothing of cable and its ways. But I just had to say something here. I had opinions on the rest of the post, but I didn't feel like typing it all out; this is one point I felt necessary to make.

Only? $7 * 12 months is $96. Now I don't know about you, but to me, $96 is a lot of money. And that doesn't even pay for the programming. Which has commercials in it.

Is that $7/month per box? If people are paying that kind of money just to watch TV, no wonder we're in a financial crisis!

- Trip

Disclaimer: I'm an OTA viewer, I know nothing of cable and its ways. But I just had to say something here. I had opinions on the rest of the post, but I didn't feel like typing it all out; this is one point I felt necessary to make.

Only? $7 * 12 months is $96. Now I don't know about you, but to me, $96 is a lot of money. And that doesn't even pay for the programming. Which has commercials in it.

Is that $7/month per box? If people are paying that kind of money just to watch TV, no wonder we're in a financial crisis!

- Trip

...and heaven forbid if you have 4 HDTVs like I do. By the time you get done paying for boxes... :rolleyes:

Disclaimer: I'm an OTA viewer, I know nothing of cable and its ways. But I just had to say something here. I had opinions on the rest of the post, but I didn't feel like typing it all out; this is one point I felt necessary to make.

Only? $7 * 12 months is $96. Now I don't know about you, but to me, $96 is a lot of money. And that doesn't even pay for the programming. Which has commercials in it.

Is that $7/month per box? If people are paying that kind of money just to watch TV, no wonder we're in a financial crisis!

- Trip

$96/year just for the boxes? Standard service is $59 a month alone. Plus $5 if you want digital cable and extra if you want premium services.

When you go month by month, $7 is nothing in the bigger scheme. Think of cell phone, DSL internet, home phone, gas, electric, water, etc. If spending just $7 more a month is causing a "financial crisis", cancel the entire $59 cable service and go OTA. Start investing that money. You're saving alot of money, Trip.

And 4 HDTVs. This is where cable needs to adjust this on their end. Charge an initial $7 for the first box and have any additional cost around $3 a month(less than satellite).

$96/year just for the boxes? Standard service is $59 a month alone. Plus $5 if you want digital cable and extra if you want premium services.

When you go month by month, $7 is nothing in the bigger scheme. Think of cell phone, DSL internet, home phone, gas, electric, water, etc. If spending just $7 more a month is causing a "financial crisis", cancel the entire $59 cable service and go OTA. Start investing that money. You're saving alot of money, Trip.

And 4 HDTVs. This is where cable needs to adjust this on their end. Charge an initial $7 for the first box and have any additional cost around $3 a month(less than satellite).

All in all, that is a lot of money to spend on TV. I'm glad I use OTA.

$96 is $96. That $96 could go into a savings account or a CD or some other investment to bring a return. $96 can buy a lot of food I've found since I've starting cooking for myself at college. Just because it makes up a small percentage of an overall expense doesn't mean it shouldn't be saved.

I already pay my own cell phone bill, and I'm considering not renewing next time it comes up if I can get a pre-paid phone that's decent.

- Trip

Everybody else has to yield to the Joe Six Packs and their offbrand 19inch TV sets from 1989, running just analog channels. Because J6P will be angry if the Oxygen, WE, Shopping and NASCAR/Trucks channel

Hey, I'm pretty sure J6P had his name changed to Joe The Plumber ;)

Switched Digital Video. Long story short, it's a way to cook the books in the bandwidth department so more channels can be added to a network with limited bandwidth(ie cable). SDV uses a two-way communication similar to VOD to download the "stream" of the channel you want to watch/record. This way bandwidth is saved by not sending EVERY channel to EVERY viewer. With less watched channels, the extra bandwidth can be reclaimed to add more HDTV channels.

It's also a way to make people who have Digital Televisions with cable cards have to purchase a box.

I didn't get an answer on my television, but I suppose if I hook it up straight to the cable what kind of HD would I get?

This crap is getting to far out of hand, and quit blaming the FCC, their job is to control what we view and make it fair for everyone. And to band evil things like Janet Jackson's malfunction, censor music played on the air waves and more importantly, get you so upset that you are ready to climb the walls.:D;)

I'm still getting Universal HD too.;)

And this leads into yet another Nickdawg's Special Comment:

*snip*

And this is really what it all boils down to. The FCC has some major vendetta against the cableco's and are holding them to what are some of the worst regulations ever when competitors like Satellite, IPTV, Fiber, etal are, for the most part, left to run things indeed how they desire to which to be brutally honest DOES often benefit the consumer to some degree even though the bottom line is their profits.

And this brings up another point. A lot of you here in this very thread have been clamoring how Satellite is great or FiOS is great and Cable sucks. Wanna know why? BINGO. Thanks to the FCC, they can't improve services to match wits with DirecTV or Dish or Verizon or AT&T. Thanks to the FCC they have to be stuck in essentially 80s land and inch forward ever so slowly with technological progress.

Don't hate on the players, hate on the referees.

And this is really what it all boils down to. The FCC has some major vendetta against the cableco's and are holding them to what are some of the worst regulations ever when competitors like Satellite, IPTV, Fiber, etal are, for the most part, left to run things indeed how they desire to which to be brutally honest DOES often benefit the consumer to some degree even though the bottom line is their profits.

And this brings up another point. A lot of you here in this very thread have been clamoring how Satellite is great or FiOS is great and Cable sucks. Wanna know why? BINGO. Thanks to the FCC, they can't improve services to match wits with DirecTV or Dish or Verizon or AT&T. Thanks to the FCC they have to be stuck in essentially 80s land and inch forward ever so slowly with technological progress.

Don't hate on the players, hate on the referees.

And every time they do inch forward, the referees are there to hit them with some kind of trumped up penalty.

There needs to be a serious house cleaning at the FCC. From the top down. The ridiculous rules about broadcast TV need to be changed and the rules about cable. The only rules cable should have to follow are the rules satellite has to.

Why the HELL should cable be forced to operate in a manner similar to OTA? Especially when satellite does not. The goal of cable should be providing competitive services with competitive prices to satellite, NOT being OTA without an antenna.

And just to add to these string of points: To those complaining about set-top fees, keep this in mind: If TW and other cablecos were given the ability to go full hog 100% digital without the referees slamming them with penalties as it were, I'd completely see them going the route of DirecTV and offering the first or second set-top free as part of the service and after that charge a nominal fee for more.
I'm sure they've watched well over the years how the DBS companies started with multi-hundred dollar customer owned set-tops to leased monthly fee boxes to now having the idea of the first 1 or 2 being free with the service with the rest being charged a monthly fee and all this development to retain customers. I'm sure TW sees that point and would use that same idea to their advantage GIVEN the ability to actually go this route if the FCC would ever let up.

And the "digital converter" isn't set up for televisions with cable cards. TiVo only.


Not true. If Sony sends the software upgrade through a USB flash drive like they have been saying they will, my Hi Def DVRs will also be able to access SDV channels. They should, given the fact they appeared on the market along with the Mitsubishi Hi Def DVR almost 2 years before the Tivo S3 came out in September 2006, back in December 2004.

My Sony TVs with cable cards are a different story however.

WOOT!! Page 500!! :D:D:D

Here's to page 1000!

On closer inspection, I see that even though SDV is enabled, I don't think anything is being passed in SDV yet. Under Registration Time I see "SDB not registered" and the SDB server port is unknown.

This probably explains why hook still gets UHD and none of the channels appear to be different.

On closer inspection, I see that even though SDV is enabled, I don't think anything is being passed in SDV yet. Under Registration Time I see "SDB not registered" and the SDB server port is unknown.

This probably explains why hook still gets UHD and none of the channels appear to be different.

I've seen no evidence that SDV is coming to the former Adelphia part of the TWC system, which hookbill and I are on.

I don't usually look at my cable bill, as I pay it online and it's about the same amount each month. But I did download the PDFs of my last three cable bills, and saw no SDV-related notice at least in the bill. I haven't gotten one in the mail otherwise, either.

Yeah. I just rebooted my HDC and I now get 'SDV Authorized', but tuning failed. So it's up here too over in Trumbull. Just waiting to see when they actually start putting channels into effect.

Btw, I still haven't given up on getting rid of this POS. My aunt across town upgraded from an 8300 (SD) when she got herself a new LCD HDTV and they gave her an 8000HD which is a major shocker and this is only a few weeks ago. So apparently they're somewhat flexible. I just need to find SOMEONE in CSR that has a flippin' clue what they're talking about and actually get them to highlight, circle, jumbo print 8300HD, not 8300HDC on the tech work order.

Yeah. I just rebooted my HDC and I now get 'SDV Authorized', but tuning failed. So it's up here too over in Trumbull. Just waiting to see when they actually start putting channels into effect.

Btw, I still haven't given up on getting rid of this POS. My aunt across town upgraded from an 8300 (SD) when she got herself a new LCD HDTV and they gave her an 8000HD which is a major shocker and this is only a few weeks ago. So apparently they're somewhat flexible. I just need to find SOMEONE in CSR that has a flippin' clue what they're talking about and actually get them to highlight, circle, jumbo print 8300HD, not 8300HDC on the tech work order.

The 8000HD is NOT an upgrade. It is worse than the HDC. The 8000 series of boxes are the original SA DVR boxes that TWC first introduced back in 2004 and they are even slower than the 8300s.

The fact anything is coming through on the SDV screen is a good sign. That means the network must be in place and ready to move channels. baby steps.

Also, I checked this morning and I had nothing. The SDV enabled only appeared later in the day with no reboot or anything. Keep waiting, it must be coming.

Actually, I'll be honest with you in that even the 8000HD STILL runs circles around the 8300HDC. I honestly don't know how TW horribly screwed up the performance on these boxes, but EVERYTHING can beat out the HDC in performance, even possibly the old Pioneer's (I haven't used one since they went full-hog with Mystro/Nav, so I dunno).

Both the old 8000 I had with Mystro and my Aunt's 8000HD are VERY responsive and have absolutely no slowdowns that I can perceive. They even have real nice fades in and out of the guide, menus, and the channel banner.

The 8300HDC is just GARBAGE, PERIOD. And in my own personal experience, it has the worst performance of any boxes that TW has available. And what's worse is they are trying to push everyone to these POS's.

I'd honestly take the 8000HD over the HDC if given the choice only between the two. I cannot stand this soon-to-be hitch-anchor.

Also, I checked this morning and I had nothing. The SDV enabled only appeared later in the day with no reboot or anything. Keep waiting, it must be coming.

Yeah. Same situation. Knowing their 2AM mainteance windows, I rebooted about 3:30 yesterday morning and nothing changed yet so it had to have been somewhere between then and now. But it required a forced reboot. Expected though probably until they actually start moving channels over.

Actually, I'll be honest with you in that even the 8000HD STILL runs circles around the 8300HDC. I honestly don't know how TW horribly screwed up the performance on these boxes, but EVERYTHING can beat out the HDC in performance, even possibly the old Pioneer's (I haven't used one since they went full-hog with Mystro/Nav, so I dunno).

Both the old 8000 I had with Mystro and my Aunt's 8000HD are VERY responsive and have absolutely no slowdowns that I can perceive. They even have real nice fades in and out of the guide, menus, and the channel banner.

The 8300HDC is just GARBAGE, PERIOD. And in my own personal experience, it has the worst performance of any boxes that TW has available. And what's worse is they are trying to push everyone to these POS's.

I'd honestly take the 8000HD over the HDC if given the choice only between the two. I cannot stand this soon-to-be hitch-anchor.

Wow. I was lucky enough to only have to use the HDC for about a month or two(this time last year) before trading it for a then-Passport 8300HD. I'm truly shocked that even a dinosaur like the 8000 would run better than a *new* box. But then again I remember how bad that HDC box was. Don't think the HDC box did the fade effect either.

I guess you'll be calling Hookbill about that chain soon? :p :D

Wow. I was lucky enough to only have to use the HDC for about a month or two(this time last year) before trading it for a then-Passport 8300HD. I'm truly shocked that even a dinosaur like the 8000 would run better than a *new* box. But then again I remember how bad that HDC box was. Don't think the HDC box did the fade effect either.
Yeah. Like I said, TW royally screwed something up for the HDC to be so horrible in performance even compared to the old SA8000.

And you really wanna know WHY they are using the HDC boxes? The FCC comes back up again. Yet another regulation forcing all new boxes that CableCo's buy THEMSELVES to provide to customers to have the security functions separated out to cablecard support instead of being integrated like all the other boxes they've had. Why is that even a CONCERN? Not like the customers are allowed to take the boxes to another cable company anyways. :confused: If you try, say hello to a $400 doorstop you have to pay for.

Thanks again FCC for being a royal ****-up and making bureaucratic hell for the cableco's to satiate your own vendetta.

I guess you'll be calling Hookbill about that chain soon? :p :D
No kidding. >>

Yeah. I just rebooted my HDC and I now get 'SDV Authorized', but tuning failed. So it's up here too over in Trumbull. Just waiting to see when they actually start putting channels into effect.

What does that mean? You couldn't get the channel?

Btw, I still haven't given up on getting rid of this POS. My aunt across town upgraded from an 8300 (SD) when she got herself a new LCD HDTV and they gave her an 8000HD which is a major shocker and this is only a few weeks ago. So apparently they're somewhat flexible. I just need to find SOMEONE in CSR that has a flippin' clue what they're talking about and actually get them to highlight, circle, jumbo print 8300HD, not 8300HDC on the tech work order.

Guys, TW is not like Best Buy or Circuit City. You simply cannot say, "I'd like the SA 8300, not the SA 830HDC." They give you what they have in stock.

When I went to get my TiVo HD activated and I wrote Mr. Fry about the inconvienience and delay of cable card install, and complained about the service from the Concord office I got a call from the Concord Service office manager. He was distressed over the fact that I had dinged them and gave me his direct number if I ever had any other service issues, in other words, "Please call me first, don't go to Mr. Fry.":cool: He assurred me that when they came out they would come out after 6:30 pm and that they would have several M cards with them to make sure it worked.

Well the got there before 6:00 pm and they did not have "M" cards, all that had were "S" cards. No "M" cards in stock. I didn't give a hoot really so two S cards were fine.

Point is if they don't have it available and you don't call at the right time when somebody turns their box in you take what they got. End of story.

Yeah. Like I said, TW royally screwed something up for the HDC to be so horrible in performance even compared to the old SA8000.

Let's put the blame where it belongs. Not Time Warner, this is Cicsco (Scientific Atlanta) who designed SDV. Go to their web page and read about it.

And you really wanna know WHY they are using the HDC boxes? The FCC comes back up again. Yet another regulation forcing all new boxes that CableCo's buy THEMSELVES to provide to customers to have the security functions separated out to cablecard support instead of being integrated like all the other boxes they've had. Why is that even a CONCERN? Not like the customers are allowed to take the boxes to another cable company anyways. :confused: If you try, say hello to a $400 doorstop you have to pay for.

Wrong again my friend. While the FCC did tell the cable companies they had to make existing equipment be able to work with their new designs, it was Cablelabs that came up with the idea of the cable cards. And quite honestly they are a disaster in design because so many cable companies have different systems. So once again you can look at Cisco.

Today I plan on purchasing a new Television for my wife. All the channels that are on the SDV list are the ones she wants.:rolleyes:

So somehow I have to figure out if the new televisions, like my 37LG30 which does not come with cable card slots but is HD ready is going to require a box. Since it doesn't have a cable card in it I have to assume that the hardware is two way capable, unlike my TiVo which isn't but does require cable cards.

And in addition to this there is absolutely no evidence of SDV being implemented in my area. I checked out the Jewlery channel this morning and it came in just fine off my TiVo HD. Now that television is simply a "HD ready" box, it does not have a different tuner.

Universal HD is still there nickdawg.:p

My wife says there is a "problem with the picture" on the old TV she watches. Yes, the problem is she is spoiled by HD and high tech digital so her picture looks like crap to her now but she doesn't realize it's exactly the same.

So maybe I'll get a new television for the bedroom, wife can have our current bedroom television and I'll get her a box from TW, but I am not getting a DVR. New orders at TW told me over the phone I can walk into the Macedonia office and get a STB only but I've heard otherwise, that they give you a DVR and promise that you won't be charged only they charge you anyway.

And also I noticed that my bill for Showtime is now 12.00 instead of 10.00 because it is now "Showtime and Showtime with On Demand." Check your bill, they've bumped it for the On Demand features. Which I don't get since I use a TiVo.:rolleyes:

One last thing. This message of "Tuning Failed" could very well mean that SDV may not be compatible with the system in your area, and if you arn't getting the channel at all, light those lines up folks or use the email address.

If you don't have the address by now, run a search on Steve Fry in this forum.

So somehow I have to figure out if the new televisions, like my 37LG30 which does not come with cable card slots but is HD ready is going to require a box. Since it doesn't have a cable card in it I have to assume that the hardware is two way capable, unlike my TiVo which isn't but does require cable cards.
I'm not sure I follow what you're looking for. I have doubts that any of the HDTVs on the market are two way capable. If there isn't a cable card slot then it certainly won't be. If there is a cable card slot it would probably boast the fact that it is two way capable.

So, pretty much, you'll need a box for any HDTV you get.

I'm not sure I follow what you're looking for. I have doubts that any of the HDTVs on the market are two way capable. If there isn't a cable card slot then it certainly won't be. If there is a cable card slot it would probably boast the fact that it is two way capable.

So, pretty much, you'll need a box for any HDTV you get.

No, the one's that have cable cards are no longer available. They are all QAM tuning (this is what I'm learning). The one's that were sold with cable cards unfortunately do not have two way capable hardware.

You see it's the hardware, not the cable card that makes it two way. My understanding however that tru2way does involve a cable card of some sort, but then again the SA boxes with SARA software do not.

It's very confusing.

Anyway I think I found an 26LG30 that I'm going to purchase. But I'm not sure if it's hardware is two way capable. Sony is behind the tru2way but I don't even know if there televisions or anyone elses are on the market yet.

I'm not sure I follow what you're looking for. I have doubts that any of the HDTVs on the market are two way capable. If there isn't a cable card slot then it certainly won't be. If there is a cable card slot it would probably boast the fact that it is two way capable.

So, pretty much, you'll need a box for any HDTV you get.

Yeah. Without a STB or a CableCard he'll only get the free basic cable.
If the tv has a QAM tuner as well he can also get the locals in HD, but QAM is pretty limited in functionality.

Yeah. Without a STB or a CableCard he'll only get the free basic cable.
If the tv has a QAM tuner as well he can also get the locals in HD, but QAM is pretty limited in functionality.

They all have QAM tuners now. Take a look on the web, none of them have cable cards.

When you say "limited funtionaility" what exactly do you mean? This is not for me it's for the wife and I'll get a box if I have to

No, the one's that have cable cards are no longer available. They are all QAM tuning (this is what I'm learning). The one's that were sold with cable cards unfortunately do not have two way capable hardware.

You see it's the hardware, not the cable card that makes it two way. My understanding however that tru2way does involve a cable card of some sort, but then again the SA boxes with SARA software do not.

It's very confusing.

Anyway I think I found an 26LG30 that I'm going to purchase. But I'm not sure if it's hardware is two way capable. Sony is behind the tru2way but I don't even know if there televisions or anyone elses are on the market yet.

Yup. As I said before, the entire CableCard implementation was botched from the beginning. So much so that consumers and CE manufacturers have largely given up on it.

I don't know enough about the technology but I'd guess Tru2Way is probably rather useless without CableCard functionality. The CableCard's are unique to each cable co, just like their STB's. So Tru2Way probably can't do it's thing on TWC's system without TWC's CableCard to interface with their system. At least, that's what I'd expect. :confused:

They all have QAM tuners now. Take a look on the web, none of them have cable cards.

When you say "limited funtionaility" what exactly do you mean? This is not for me it's for the wife and I'll get a box if I have to

QAM limitations vary from each provider. A few of the more common functionality issues:
- QAM ch's move around (probably just to piss off the freeloaders like us who use QAM) :)
- QAM ch's are usually different than your STB or basic cable ch #'s.
- Limited or no program data
- Ch's are added and later deleted, by accident or on purpose
- Limited (usually) to the federally mandated local ch's "in the clear"
- Usually the only additional QAM offerings are Digital Music ch's and shopping ch's
- To find or add additional ch's can require an entire scan of the entire cable systems offerings. Now you must sift through 100's of ch's that the scan found to find the one new ch that has been added (and may not be there next week). QAM will "find" every ch the cable co offers, it just can't tune in the encrypted ch's which is probably 95+ % of the ch numbers your QAM scan will return.

All of this is certainly manageable and doable via QAM and most of these issues may not even affect TWC QAM offerings, I dunno. It just takes a bit more time and effort to utilize QAM. ;)

QAM is most certainly a "you get what you pay for" type service. :D

No, the one's that have cable cards are no longer available. They are all QAM tuning (this is what I'm learning). The one's that were sold with cable cards unfortunately do not have two way capable hardware.

You see it's the hardware, not the cable card that makes it two way. My understanding however that tru2way does involve a cable card of some sort, but then again the SA boxes with SARA software do not.

It's very confusing.

Anyway I think I found an 26LG30 that I'm going to purchase. But I'm not sure if it's hardware is two way capable. Sony is behind the tru2way but I don't even know if there televisions or anyone elses are on the market yet.

Hook,

Here's a link to the first Tru2way sets available...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/15/panasonic-reveals-first-tru2way-hdtvs-in-chicago-and-denver/

We already saw Panasonic's 50-inch TH-50PZ80Q plasma doing the tru2way thing at CEDIA 2008, but the official lever has just been pulled in Denver and Chicago. As of today, Comcast's tru2way platform is active in the aforesaid cities, and the very first tru2way-capable HDTVs are arriving to retail. Eager consumers in the Windy or Mile High City who are ready to ditch the set-top-box altogether without sacrificing VOD and such can polish off their wounded credit cards, as both a 42-inch (TH-42PZ80Q; $1,599.95) and 50-inch (TH-50PZ80Q; $2,299.95) VIERA plasma will be on sale by "late October." As for the rest of the US anxious to dip in the cool, cool waters of tru2way? A few undisclosed locales should be going live with the service "in the coming months," though your guess is as good as ours as to what exactly that means.

QAM limitations vary from each provider. A few of the more common functionality issues:
- QAM ch's move around (probably just to piss off the freeloaders like us who use QAM) :)
- QAM ch's are usually different than your STB or basic cable ch #'s.
- Limited or no program data
- Ch's are added and later deleted, by accident or on purpose
- Limited (usually) to the federally mandated local ch's "in the clear"]
- Usually the only additional QAM offerings are Digital Music ch's and shopping ch's- To find or add additional ch's can require an entire scan of the entire cable systems offerings. Now you must sift through 100's of ch's that the scan found to find the one new ch that has been added (and may not be there next week). QAM will "find" every ch the cable co offers, it just can't tune in the encrypted ch's which is probably 95+ % of the ch numbers your QAM scan will return.




DING DING DING. We have a winner!

That is EXACTLY what my wife wants. The shopping channels

Hook,

Here's a link to the first Tru2way sets available...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/15/panasonic-reveals-first-tru2way-hdtvs-in-chicago-and-denver/

Gotcha! I'm going to give the 26LG30 a shot. If I need a box I'll get one.

Hook,

Here's a link to the first Tru2way sets available...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/15/panasonic-reveals-first-tru2way-hdtvs-in-chicago-and-denver/

No mention of needing the physical "CableCard", only says "won't need a cable operators STB". So maybe the physical card isn't needed?

Or are the physical "CableCard's" assumed and implied?

EDIT: Upon further reading it appears no physical CableCard is needed. :)
EDIT 2: Whooops......looks like the CNet article is mistaken, p 14 of the Panny Users Guide says "to enjoy Tru2Way tv......step ONE...insert CableCard....".
But then other online sources claim this Panny has an M-card and not a CableCard? The confusion continues.......

DING DING DING. We have a winner!

That is EXACTLY what my wife wants. The shopping channels

HA! ;)

I'd guess most QAM users probably do their ch surfing via the free basic cable offerings, then switch to QAM when they decide on a program offered in HD (usually the locals).

No, the one's that have cable cards are no longer available. They are all QAM tuning (this is what I'm learning). The one's that were sold with cable cards unfortunately do not have two way capable hardware.

You see it's the hardware, not the cable card that makes it two way. My understanding however that tru2way does involve a cable card of some sort, but then again the SA boxes with SARA software do not.

It's very confusing.

Anyway I think I found an 26LG30 that I'm going to purchase. But I'm not sure if it's hardware is two way capable. Sony is behind the tru2way but I don't even know if there televisions or anyone elses are on the market yet.

As you said, a cable card should be involved in the two way capabilities of a set. I understand that the cable card doesn't make a device two way. My point is if the set doesn't have a cable card slot, then it isn't even close to being two way capable.

The TH-50PZ80Q mentioned in the Engadget article does require a cable card. It also appears from Panasonic's site and manual that two way capable sets will be boasting that functionality so it will be quite clear if they are capable as I assumed they would.
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/consumer_electronics/television/TH42PZ80Q.pdf

All true2way sets and devices will require a cable card 2.0 or M spec. These cards have been around now for over a year.