TV..whats up with that.

says no signal.......and no BROWNS game

Nick, what are you talking about? QAM IS digital. It's the same pic everyone else gets who subscribes to TW HD.
I only subscribe to TW analog Lifeline Basic package (no digital, no HD), BUT, via QAM I get all of my local channels in HIGH DEFINITION when available.
Of course you have to have a proper QAM tuner and an HDTV to take advantage of it.

I'm talking about the analog channels. You don't get EVERY channel in digital(like ESPN, USA, TNT, CNN, MSNBC, F/X). Only the local channels are HD and there are a few odd digital channels. With my box, EVERY channel is digital. Even SD locals and cable channels.

I'm talking about the analog channels. You don't get EVERY channel in digital(like ESPN, USA, TNT, CNN, MSNBC, F/X). Only the local channels are HD and there are a few odd digital channels. With my box, EVERY channel is digital. Even SD locals and cable channels.

The QAM and analog-only tier is crap. Seriously. I wouldn't pay $5 for it. You'd get a much better product and result to invest in OTA by getting a good antenna. The OTA HD and SD digital PQ blows analog cable out of the water. Especially when you're using a high-resolution screen like an HDTV, it looks really, really bad. It should be a crime that they make people pay for that.

This is what I am referring to Nick... where you say QAM is crap. QAM is NOT crap. It is the same as what is on your cable box, all digital. Some are SD and some are hd when applicable, but all QAM channels ARE digital. There is no such thing as "analog qam".

To add to my statements, I agree... analog IS crap :).

This is what I am referring to Nick... where you say QAM is crap. QAM is NOT crap. It is the same as what is on your cable box, all digital. Some are SD and some are hd when applicable, but all QAM channels ARE digital. There is no such thing as "analog qam".

That's what I mean. Unless they are going to pass ALL of the channels that are analog in digital, it's not worth it for the few digital channels. If that basic service price was for EVERY channel in digital QAM, then it would be a better value. No way would I actually pay for anything analog anymore. THAT should be the crime. Forcing people to pay for an obsolete, outdated format that has been abandoned by OTA broadcasters.

That's what I mean. Unless they are going to pass ALL of the channels that are analog in digital, it's not worth it for the few digital channels. If that basic service price was for EVERY channel in digital QAM, then it would be a better value. No way would I actually pay for anything analog anymore. THAT should be the crime. Forcing people to pay for an obsolete, outdated format that has been abandoned by OTA broadcasters.

I agree. We only watch some stuff here and there on the analog channels. Most of our viewing is on the QAM channels. For us, it's worth the $13/month they charge for the service. If/when we decide we want the "full boat" of accessable channels, it sure as hell won't be Time Warner :rolleyes::).

It worked!!! Hookbill's letter to WBNX actually made them fix the audio. I recorded SuperNatural tonight and heard something out the rear for the first time.

anyone getting them from Time Warner ????

they were out all last night...and this morning

anyone getting them from Time Warner ????

they were out all last night...and this morning
I watched the game (in HD) just fine vis T-W in Solon. You're in Erie, right? Are you on the city or Millcreek (former Adelphia) system? My in-laws moved to the Regency last spring (city system) and I was surprised that all of the Cleveland OTA HD channels were available in the clear via QAM. The only local HD broadcast was from WQLN (PBS) and FOX-66 until a couple months ago when WICU-12 showed up in their line-up. ABC and CBS HD was not available locally and the GM of WSEE-35 had gone on record saying that his station would never go HD, just digital.

I watched the game (in HD) just fine vis T-W in Solon. You're in Erie, right? Are you on the city or Millcreek (former Adelphia) system? My in-laws moved to the Regency last spring (city system) and I was surprised that all of the Cleveland OTA HD channels were available in the clear via QAM. The only local HD broadcast was from WQLN (PBS) and FOX-66 until a couple months ago when WICU-12 showed up in their line-up. ABC and CBS HD was not available locally and the GM of WSEE-35 had gone on record saying that his station would never go HD, just digital.


all the local channels are in HD right now except for ABC...and available on Time Warner HD channel lineup

and you are right..we are able to get all the cleveland HD channels along with 3.2 and 19.2 the 24/7 cleveland weather channel.(if you live in the city..county area can't)

but last night 19.1 and 43.1 said no signal when I went to look for the brown game..

but county has channel 43 part of their lineup and they got the game..

just wondered what happened to 19.1 and 43.1 last night

but last night 19.1 and 43.1 said no signal when I went to look for the brown game..

but county has channel 43 part of their lineup and they got the game..

just wondered what happened to 19.1 and 43.1 last night

Maybe your 43.1 got cut off with some kind of weird NFL Network blackout thing... and with 43.1 and 19.1 both being Raycom stations, who knows...

That's your problem. Get a HD cable box. 19 and 43 worked fine last night. So did all other channels.

Just FYI, 43.1 had the Browns game last night in HD via OTA. They were simply rebroadcasting the game from the NFL HD channel. If you could not get it via your cable company it was probably either an issue with your equipment or the cable company. No problem via OTA.

A friend of mine had AT&T's UVerse installed a while back. He told me they ran fiber optic to the side of his house but used coax for all the connections inside the house. He got the whole bundle which included the multi megabyte internet connection and the digital phone. The guy that described the fiber installation a few posts back reminded me of my friends setup. I too have never heard of Time Warner running fiber up to the house. It would be nice if that poster(JJkizak) could verify whether it actually was Time Warner or the more likely FiOS or UVerse.

I will check with my guru buddy when he comes back from vacation about all of the details. He did say they were very fussy about the install.
JJK

Hey folks, general question here. I'm advising a friend on a tv purchase. I DO know my tvs but am not too hip to this qam tuner/cable thing. Hes in Lorain and has the basic/lifeline TW service. What digital channels will he be able to decode? Anything? Anybody know??
Thanks

I took a look and there is not a heck of a lot of them. Mostly shopping, music and local HD. YMMV

__________________
Proud Owner of the TiVo S3 and TiVo HD
SA 8300? Don't make me laugh!!!!
Proud Flock Leader of 10 Parrots
MY NAME IS NOT BILL (but you can call me hook)

Hey Hookbill, you forgot to add that new SA box to your "inventory"!!

Quit laughing at SA boxes, you have one now!!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

I took a look and there is not a heck of a lot of them. Mostly shopping, music and local HD. YMMV

And often times you don't even get that much. At least over in this neck of the woods, all I've ever been able to pick up are just a couple local HD channels (a few I couldn't ever pick up), none of the music channles (which I was hoping for really), no VOD feeds that I could find even when triggering them on my own SA box, and the PPV/VOD preview feeds. No shopping channels I could find. And Discovery HD theater showed up when it felt like it.

But yes, YMMV.

It worked!!! Hookbill's letter to WBNX actually made them fix the audio. I recorded SuperNatural tonight and heard something out the rear for the first time.

The only downside is it appears they're following the lead of WKYC and doing that awful "flag as 3/2.1 yet pass 2/0" where only front L and R channels work and Pro Logic is useless since the receiver thinks it is getting true 5.1 sound. But I guess it's not as bad as WOIO/WUAB's FAKE UPCONVERT 5.1 sound. That is absolutely atrocious.

WBNX is really getting ti right this week. Watching "Jury Duty" now I noticed there is no WBNX bug on screen. Nice work, WBNX!!! Just get HD recording equipment and I think I'll have a new favorite channel. And they'll be better than WOIO/WUAB will ever be.

Can anyone say CBS 55!!!!:D:D:D

Are we ever going to see a 24/7 programming on the two FSN HD channels TWC has? I remember reading something that FSN was going to start sending programming for it, but all I see on 436 and 437 is a blank screen.

What I'd like to see is something like STO or ESPN where even if the program isn't HD, they're showing it in SD digital on the HD channel. FSN SD channel is not that good looking so a digital alternative would be nice. I see they also added a simulcast of FSN on 310 and the PQ is night and day better than the PQ on 309.

I get the feeling 309 is an analog upconvert and 310 is true digital.

The only downside is it appears they're following the lead of WKYC and doing that awful "flag as 3/2.1 yet pass 2/0" where only front L and R channels work and Pro Logic is useless since the receiver thinks it is getting true 5.1 sound. But I guess it's not as bad as WOIO/WUAB's FAKE UPCONVERT 5.1 sound. That is absolutely atrocious.

WBNX is really getting ti right this week. Watching "Jury Duty" now I noticed there is no WBNX bug on screen. Nice work, WBNX!!! Just get HD recording equipment and I think I'll have a new favorite channel. And they'll be better than WOIO/WUAB will ever be.

Can anyone say CBS 55!!!!:D:D:D

I didn't see your original post but just keep in mind the power of the beak. 100 pounds per square inch, on my Macaw!

Of course they fixed it. The power of hook does it again!

Hey Hookbill, you forgot to add that new SA box to your "inventory"!!

Quit laughing at SA boxes, you have one now!!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

I don't own it, my wife does and it's not a DVR. I stand by what I say about the SA 8300. The SARA is there because of someone else insisting that I add it as I wasn't including passport. Which probably sucks too, compared to TiVo.:)

I asked my Twinsburg Uncle (Time/Warner cable/phone/internet package) if they ran an optical cable to his house and he said "he thinks they did" but not sure.
JJK

I asked my Twinsburg Uncle (Time/Warner cable/phone/internet package) if they ran an optical cable to his house and he said "he thinks they did" but not sure.
JJK

Ask him to look at the cable coming into the house at the grounding block on the outside. Look for "RG-6" printed on it somewhere. Also look at the grouinding block itself and note the f-connectors.

About QAM lineups...

Remmeber, underneath, Time Warner's local systems are still separate when it comes to QAM channels. The OP's friend is in Lorain, which is part of the old Comcast system. I'm with the former Adelphia/Cleveland system, as is hookbill, and nickdawg and some of the others are on the "legacy" Time Warner system out of Akron.

From what I've read, the "legacy" folks get some odd channels, like QAM versions of the LPTVers on digital cable (WIVM, etc.) far from their original homes. The "legacy" folks on TWC's system in the city of Erie PA get Cleveland HD channels on QAM, or have gotten them, while the Erie County PA folks are a former Adelphia system and don't.

About QAM lineups...

Remmeber, underneath, Time Warner's local systems are still separate when it comes to QAM channels. The OP's friend is in Lorain, which is part of the old Comcast system. I'm with the former Adelphia/Cleveland system, as is hookbill, and nickdawg and some of the others are on the "legacy" Time Warner system out of Akron.

From what I've read, the "legacy" folks get some odd channels, like QAM versions of the LPTVers on digital cable (WIVM, etc.) far from their original homes. The "legacy" folks on TWC's system in the city of Erie PA get Cleveland HD channels on QAM, or have gotten them, while the Erie County PA folks are a former Adelphia system and don't.

True:
I am on the "Legacy" TWC system here in Canton, and have gotten WTOV-9 Steubenville, WTVG- 13 Toledo and WYFX-17 Youngstown (But not co-owned WKBN)..All these are gone now. I do get Canton City, North Canton, Lake and GlenOak Versions of Canton Schools Channel 11, as well as I think Green and New Franklin Public Service Channels..Along with 3, 5, 8, 19, 25, 43, 49, 52, 55, Discovery and Familyland Channel..

NEW YORK (AP)—Major League Baseball reached an agreement with Verizon to carry the MLB Network on FiOS, expanding the channel’s launch to 50 million homes.

FiOS, available in more than eight million households in 14 states, will also carry the out-of-market Extra Innings package, MLB said Monday.

The MLB Network is set to launch Jan. 1. It will carry news, highlights and taped programming, and likely will have a live game either on Thursday or Saturday nights.

NEW YORK (AP)—Major League Baseball reached an agreement with Verizon to carry the MLB Network on FiOS, expanding the channel’s launch to 50 million homes.

FiOS, available in more than eight million households in 14 states, will also carry the out-of-market Extra Innings package, MLB said Monday.

The MLB Network is set to launch Jan. 1. It will carry news, highlights and taped programming, and likely will have a live game either on Thursday or Saturday nights.

Well, it's not likely TWC will carry it, cheapskates that they are. If it is more expensive then what On Demand gave us, we will be very lucky if we get it by opening day.

Well, I see the GENIUSES(and I use that term sarcastically) have "fixed" the audio on WKYC DT. Fixed, relatively speaking. But they actually made the sound WORSE again by sending 3/2.1 all the time. Over the last week when the Dolby audio equipment didn't work, the SQ was much, much better because 2/0 audio was sent all the time. And with 2/0 audio, the Pro Logic settings on my AV receiver worked, giving sound out of the center channel. Watching "Rachel Ray" today I had to crank the volume level up to around 50 because the sound out of the L/R channels is low. And it's incorrect. With non-5.1 programming, the viewer should have the option to either take the two channel stereo or use one of the PL settings to "simulate" surround sound. WJW-DT does this correctly, only sending 3/2.1 on NETWORK programming. I noticed WBNX does the exact same thing. There's only surround sound on network programming but regular programmming claims to be 3/2.1 but I only get audio out of the L/R channels.

Yeah, the WKYC DT audio was so awful I actually switched back to WKYC SD, which I get in Dolby 2/0.

I'll have to wait and see how network programming sounds. Watching Law & Order and The Office and other shows on Thursday I noticed the sound was actually BETTER in 2/0!! I actually heard something out of the rear, which is usually very LOW on NBC HD. Who knows, I may stop watching NBC HD and start watching NBC SD again. :D:D

Yeah, the WKYC DT audio was so awful I actually switched back to WKYC SD, which I get in Dolby 2/0.

I'll have to wait and see how network programming sounds. Watching Law & Order and The Office and other shows on Thursday I noticed the sound was actually BETTER in 2/0!! I actually heard something out of the rear, which is usually very LOW on NBC HD. Who knows, I may stop watching NBC HD and start watching NBC SD again. :D:D

Law & Order, for whatever reason has never been great in Dolby 5.1. As far as watching SD over HD, your DVR can change the sound to PCM so you don't have to put up with that if you want.

Personally I think the upgraded digital stations arn't much better then the analog ones.

Law & Order, for whatever reason has never been great in Dolby 5.1. As far as watching SD over HD, your DVR can change the sound to PCM so you don't have to put up with that if you want.

Personally I think the upgraded digital stations arn't much better then the analog ones.

I was going to comment that PCM is actually better(IMO) than even 2/0. Whenever TWC sends an EAS test through, they come through in PCM 48. And after the test, the 8300HD stays in PCM 48 until the box reboots. I noticed that SD channels that are usually 2/0 sounded better. Also, some of the low-rent digital channels that usually suffer from low audio were louder on less volume level. WKYC sounded better, since PL kicked in. Other channels actually sounded worse though. WOIO CBS sounded AWFUL. The way CBS encodes their digital audio it sounds like crap when forced to two channel(remember how CBS programming on WOIO sounded before they added 5.1?).
---------------------------------------------------
Tonight's Jay Leno sounded horrible. Again, just L and R channels only(which is the way it has been in the past). Guess it's back to WKYC SD again. The sound is much, much better there. PQ not so much, but I'll get over it.

nickdawg since you brought it up the other day about me having a box with SARA on it my wife called me in to look at the channel she was watching. She said it was "kind of coming in" and said I should complain to TW.

So I go to my TiVo HD and put on this shopping channel, comes in clear as can be.

I rebooted her box and that fixed the issue.

This kind of surprises me about her. She is very computer literate she has a bachelors degree in computers. But she can't get any of this video stuff, I get the deer in the headlights look from her.

And everyone knows, or at least should know that if you are having a problem with a computer the first thing you do is reboot. But even though she works with Unix devices TiVo, DVR, Digital television, HD.....She doesn't get it.

And everyone knows, or at least should know that if you are having a problem with a computer the first thing you do is reboot. But even though she works with Unix devices TiVo, DVR, Digital television, HD.....She doesn't get it.

I must laugh at this comment... As a die-hard UNIX geek, rebooting a system is (for me) a last resort to be done if nothing else works.

Gotta love Windows - the only OS conceived that makes you reboot after changing the desktop background color. :)

Well, it's not likely TWC will carry it, cheapskates that they are. If it is more expensive then what On Demand gave us, we will be very lucky if we get it by opening day.

Actually, TWC is one of three big cable MSOs that are actually partners in the MLB Network...so I'd be shocked if you didn't see it pop up on or shortly after January 1st (at least on SD digital, HD mileage may vary).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652328

found it kinda interesting....

Some quick questions:

Is WBNX-HD-Channel 55 available on TWC QAM in North Canton ? I can get all the other Cleveland locals in HD but never WBNX.

I heard Channel 3 is increasing its power and going to broadcast in UHF after the digital conversion. Any truth to that ? Would like to get it OTA in HD sometime.

lefkas, WBNX-HD is on channel 78.3 for me here on the east side North Canton.
They have mapped all of the local channels correctly several months ago, however for some reason WBNX has not gotten mapped to 55.1 yet.

I heard Channel 3 is increasing its power and going to broadcast in UHF after the digital conversion. Any truth to that ? Would like to get it OTA in HD sometime.

WKYC is moving to channel 17(former home of WDLI-moving to 39) after February 17. Also, like WVIZ, they're supposed to increase their power and the new position will be easier to get than VHF 2.

VHF 2 is just cruel. I always had the feeling that someone at the FCC was "out to get" WKYC and screw them royally by giving them that position.

Now if only Raycheap's WOIO would apply for a re-location to get off channel 10. I doubt that will happen because I think they actually like having to operate at lower power because it's another way to save money.

But having WOIO over on UHF would be nice, no need for a VHF antenna or worrying about picking up those channels in Cleveland at all!

But having WOIO over on UHF would be nice, no need for a VHF antenna or worrying about picking up those channels in Cleveland at all!

WJW is moving its digital transmission to channel 8 during the transition. You'll still need a high band VHF antenna for it if WOIO were to move to a UHF frequency.

Seriously, they are going to pre-empt Prison Break and Terminator: Sarah Conner Chronicles for the friggin Browns.

You got to be kidding me. They better be showing them some other time during the night or week. This really pisses me off.

Question for you guys - if I drop my package down to just RoadRunner (I have 2 SA's running SARA right now in Macedonia) will I be able to still tune in the QAM channels or do they filter it? We used to have Navigator in Stow and it's so much better than the crap we have now. Makes me want to build a Myth box. My wife is actually willing to move to dtv but I don't want locked into the contract

Question for you guys - if I drop my package down to just RoadRunner (I have 2 SA's running SARA right now in Macedonia) will I be able to still tune in the QAM channels or do they filter it? We used to have Navigator in Stow and it's so much better than the crap we have now. Makes me want to build a Myth box. My wife is actually willing to move to dtv but I don't want locked into the contract

to pick up channels 19.1 and 43.1 using QAM...since Thursday night

3.1, 5.1 and 8.1 still come in...

not sure whats going on..

what funny is that I get 19.2 the 24/7 channel 19 weather channel..but when I punch in 19.1 it said no channel found

WJW is moving its digital transmission to channel 8 during the transition. You'll still need a high band VHF antenna for it if WOIO were to move to a UHF frequency.

Seriously, they are going to pre-empt Prison Break and Terminator: Sarah Conner Chronicles for the friggin Browns.

You got to be kidding me. They better be showing them some other time during the night or week. This really pisses me off.

Exactly the reason why I stand by my earlier statement. I'd rather dump WJW and WOIO on VHF and instead get WKBN-DT. At least with WKBN-DT you get a superior CBS affiliate and a FOX channel on 87-2(WYFX).

For me it would be worth it. I only watch FOX three days a week(the cartoons on Sunday, Prison Break on Monday and House on Tuesday). I NEVER watch their news(and it would be nice to not have to see those bulls... "FOX 8" news promos. Same goes for WOIO. To not have to see all the ridiculous "action news" promos would be nice also.

I cannot believe they dumped PB for the Cleveland Clowns.

No need to worry about those JACKASSES at WJW rebroadcasting it. I'll watch it ONLINE.

http://www.hulu.com/prison-break

At least with WKBN-DT you get a superior CBS affiliate and a FOX channel on 87-2(WYFX).

Uh, no thanks. I don't want my NFL on Fox and NFL on CBS stuffed into one 19Mbps channel. I can't imagine what that looks like on gameday when both channels have a game on.

I cannot believe they dumped PB for the Cleveland Clowns.

No need to worry about those JACKASSES at WJW rebroadcasting it. I'll watch it ONLINE.

http://www.hulu.com/prison-break

Not me. I intend to download it on Tuesday in full HD and watch it on my TiVo!

Sometimes when they pull this stuff, BT is your friend.

BTW I didn't say that as a TiVo vs SA thing, it's just something I can do. In the old days with SA I would download burn to DVD and watch so my wife could watch too but it wouldn't be in HD.

Uh, no thanks. I don't want my NFL on Fox and NFL on CBS stuffed into one 19Mbps channel. I can't imagine what that looks like on gameday when both channels have a game on.Actually the CBS games on WKBN-DT look fine, FOX via 27.2 OTOH not so much.

I read on another forum that there are stations in smaller markets actually getting 2 HD feeds on the same channel at the same time and claim it looks good.

I read on another forum that there are stations in smaller markets actually getting 2 HD feeds on the same channel at the same time and claim it looks good.

Were these forums for the blind? I've heard nothing but complaints from anywhere with a two-HD setup like that.

- Trip

Not me. I intend to download it on Tuesday in full HD and watch it on my TiVo!

Sometimes when they pull this stuff, BT is your friend.

BTW I didn't say that as a TiVo vs SA thing, it's just something I can do. In the old days with SA I would download burn to DVD and watch so my wife could watch too but it wouldn't be in HD.

BT is my new BFF!!! ;) I downloaded last week's prison break to check it out and last week's CSI NY. The PB episode was great. From a Canadian TV network. No popup crap, just a bug and a TV rating. Same with CSI:NY. It was from CBS, yet there wasn't an ad(that I saw, didn't watch the entire episode yet).

This may be part of the new way I watch TV. Even without a fancy Tivo :p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p I can still plug in the computer to the TV and watch these HDTV shows in 1280x720 widescreen.

BT is my new BFF!!! ;) I downloaded last week's prison break to check it out and last week's CSI NY. The PB episode was great. From a Canadian TV network. No popup crap, just a bug and a TV rating. Same with CSI:NY. It was from CBS, yet there wasn't an ad(that I saw, didn't watch the entire episode yet).

This may be part of the new way I watch TV. Even without a fancy Tivo :p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p I can still plug in the computer to the TV and watch these HDTV shows in 1280x720 widescreen.

Very true......but do you have Dolby 5.1 and at least a 37" screen?

My new computer has a 26 inch screen and is HD capable BTW. Birthday present from the wife.:p

Very true......but do you have Dolby 5.1 and at least a 37" screen?

My new computer has a 26 inch screen and is HD capable BTW. Birthday present from the wife.:p

I have a 50 inch TV that I can plug it into. I don't have 5.1 from the computer, but as I learned from WKYC and several other local stations, 5.1 isn't necessarily better. No way I'd watch it on my 15 inch 4x3 monitor. As a consequence of HDTV, the videos are letterboxed, which I hate as it makes an already small screen even smaller. But:D on the large TV, it looked great. Better than SDTV digital cable!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I finally jumped into watching Lost starting in season 3. Quickly got hooked on it, so I BT'd Seasons 1/2 while recording S3 on my TiVo. I set up a thing on my Linux box to send the HD BT's to the Tivo - over a few weeks, I enjoyed the first two seasons on my 50", then caught up on current recorded shows...

I finally jumped into watching Lost starting in season 3. Quickly got hooked on it, so I BT'd Seasons 1/2 while recording S3 on my TiVo. I set up a thing on my Linux box to send the HD BT's to the Tivo - over a few weeks, I enjoyed the first two seasons on my 50", then caught up on current recorded shows...

Great show isn't it? Too bad we only get to see a handful of new episodes each season, then have to wait AN ENTIRE YEAR (:mad:) till we get to see more. By the time the new season comes around, I forget everything that happened last season :rolleyes:

I KNOW I missed a few episodes somewhere during the series. I may have to look for them on BT.

What's BT? I think you can watch old episodes on ABC.com.
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=index

Great show isn't it? Too bad we only get to see a handful of new episodes each season, then have to wait AN ENTIRE YEAR (:mad:) till we get to see more. By the time the new season comes around, I forget everything that happened last season :rolleyes:

You should see more this year. The writers strike affected that show last year.

I just moved to Stow, Oh and want to try my luck getting over the air HD. Do I have any chance with an indoor antenna? Attached is the screenshot of my available channels from antennaweb.com. It says for the digital locals I need a large directional antenna???

Thanks in advance and sorry for the newbie questions.

-Josh

I just moved to Stow, Oh and want to try my luck getting over the air HD. Do I have any chance with an indoor antenna? Attached is the screenshot of my available channels from antennaweb.com. It says for the digital locals I need a large directional antenna???

Thanks in advance and sorry for the newbie questions.

-Josh

If you mean the Cleveland locals, highly doubtful. I am MUCH closer to the antennas than Stow and my signals on 3 and 19 are very weak. I'm using an omni-directional amplified outdoor antenna.

You might be able to use a directional antenna in your attic if it is the aesthetics you are concerned about. You could also try a an indoor antenna and return it if you don't get much using it (which I'd guess is the case).

If you mean the Cleveland locals, highly doubtful. I am MUCH closer to the antennas than Stow and my signals on 3 and 19 are very weak. I'm using an omni-directional amplified outdoor antenna.

You might be able to use a directional antenna in your attic if it is the aesthetics you are concerned about. You could also try a an indoor antenna and return it if you don't get much using it (which I'd guess is the case).

Well that sucks.. so much for me watching the football games on Thanksgiving. I might just have to break down and get cable:o

Well that sucks.. so much for me watching the football games on Thanksgiving. I might just have to break down and get cable:o

I'd consider satellite if I were you. Direct TV, IMHO is probably your best deal unless you want internet as well. That's with or without HD.

I'd consider satellite if I were you. Direct TV, IMHO is probably your best deal unless you want internet as well. That's with or without HD.

Yeh I know. Its just I don't care about all the extra channels.. all I really want is locals in HD and I don't want to pay $70 a month for those, whether it be sat or cable!

Yeh I know. Its just I don't care about all the extra channels.. all I really want is locals in HD and I don't want to pay $70 a month for those, whether it be sat or cable!

If your tv has a QAM tuner, you should be able to get Time Warner's Lifeline Basic cable package.
It consists of analog channels 2-20, but on the QAM frequncy, you should be able to get all of the local stations in DT/HD. This is what I have and am very happy with it since it is all I need for tv and costs me less than $15/month.

I'd consider satellite if I were you. Direct TV, IMHO is probably your best deal unless you want internet as well. That's with or without HD.

Or you want to use Tivo! :p

Don't worry about internet. Pricing for DSL is much better than through TWC. I pay $19.99. There's also another one for $24 and one for like $29. TWC starts at least in the $39 range or even more.

Or consider AT&T Advanced TV, Uverse. You get more HD channels than cable plus internet bundled into the price(I heard somewhere around $70 for both on one commercial). Although availability depends on your particular area.

IMO, Direc TV is crap!! You have to pay for equipment(that means you own it and are responsible for upgrades/repairs). IF there's snow on the dish, picture goes out. You have to pay for service calls and you're put in phone hell waiting when you call.

Now, now, smarty. Let's not feed the beast with more illegitimate cable.

Toby10:
You will need an outdoor big ass antenna. (supersized) The problem with digital is when you loose signal the video and audio drop out and you loose continuity. If you don't have mental problems prior to OTA you will after if you have viewed weak signals for 24 hrs. I believe it was added to the Geneva List of forbidden tortures. Occasionally multipath will drive you up the wall. The big ass antennas only cost about $100.00. I am pretty lucky with a 177" VHF/UHF antenna fixed as 67.1,49.1,.2 do drop out at times but all the others are in fat city, even 25.1thru.9.
JJK

Toby10:
You will need an outdoor big ass antenna. (supersized)
Like one of these, but for a house?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHj_f7IniGk

Now, now, smarty. Let's not feed the beast with more illegitimate cable.
Hey man, as soon as TW offers up Digital Cable with no STB required for less than $20/month, I'll be all over it. :)

I just moved to Stow, Oh and want to try my luck getting over the air HD. Do I have any chance with an indoor antenna? Attached is the screenshot of my available channels from antennaweb.com. It says for the digital locals I need a large directional antenna???

Thanks in advance and sorry for the newbie questions.

-Josh

I think you will do just fine picking up channels with an indoor channel, they just wont all be from cleveland. I am at kent state and am using the EVGA Indtube as my tv, and using the small indoor antenna I can get the following channels:

WEWS - ABC Cleveland
WJW - FOX Cleveland
WKBN - CBS Youngstown
WFMJ - NBC Youngstown
WUAB - Mytv 43 Cleveland
WBNX - The CW Akron
WBCB - The CW Youngstown
WNEO 1 and 2 - PBS Akron

All of these I get HD with, and not much signal loss surpisingly.

I think you will do just fine picking up channels with an indoor channel, they just wont all be from cleveland. I am at kent state and am using the EVGA Indtube as my tv, and using the small indoor antenna I can get the following channels:

WEWS - ABC Cleveland
WJW - FOX Cleveland
WKBN - CBS Youngstown
WFMJ - NBC Youngstown
WUAB - Mytv 43 Cleveland
WBNX - The CW Akron
WBCB - The CW Youngstown
WNEO 1 and 2 - PBS Akron

All of these I get HD with, and not much signal loss surpisingly.

You actually get a much better CBS and NBC. WKBN is far better than WOIO. Stronger signal and better programming. WOIO has their awful Action News and a habit of showing paid programming at bad times(dumping CBS programming a few times). Plus WKBN comes with the WYFX subchannel. WYFX fat better than WJW. At least you'll get to see Prison Break on Monday. Those of us with crappy WJW get to see the Clowns game and PB and Terminator SCC are not being rebroadcast.

WFMJ can be better than WKYC. During baseball season, WKYC dumps NBC programming often. I've actually picked up WFMJ analog just to see Saturday rebroadcast shows like Chuck and Law & Order.

You actually get a much better CBS and NBC. WKBN is far better than WOIO. Stronger signal and better programming. WOIO has their awful Action News and a habit of showing paid programming at bad times(dumping CBS programming a few times). Plus WKBN comes with the WYFX subchannel. WYFX fat better than WJW. At least you'll get to see Prison Break on Monday. Those of us with crappy WJW get to see the Clowns game and PB and Terminator SCC are not being rebroadcast.

WFMJ can be better than WKYC. During baseball season, WKYC dumps NBC programming often. I've actually picked up WFMJ analog just to see Saturday rebroadcast shows like Chuck and Law & Order.

I had been pretty bummed out about not being able to pick up WKYC, because I really like the NBC programming. Just recently I found a sweet spot for my antenna and can pick up WFMJ and am in free network tv heaven.

I am happy that I get WJW, I am a die-hard browns fan, and it seems as if their HD feeds are one of the better feeds in the area.

All told I can pick up about 15 channels with a high gain, telescopic indoor antenna that is about 15" long. I am really surprised at the reception, and loving it.

Do I have any chance with an indoor antenna?

I've been watching OTA digital for 3 years down here in North Canton... nearly 50 miles from the 7 Hills antenna farms... using an inside antenna mounted on a camera tripod... an amplified 4 bay UHF bowtie antenna for Cleveland and an amplified 2 bay UHF antenna for Youngstown... no luck with a Yagi... antenna placement is critical... had to walk the antenna around looking for the hot spots... but once I found it reception has been very reliable... varying a foot or so between summer and winter... BTW the omnidirectional RV type antennas may work on analog but are reportedly not so good for digital...

Ed...

Toby10:
You will need an outdoor big ass antenna. (supersized) The problem with digital is when you loose signal the video and audio drop out and you loose continuity. If you don't have mental problems prior to OTA you will after if you have viewed weak signals for 24 hrs. I believe it was added to the Geneva List of forbidden tortures. Occasionally multipath will drive you up the wall. The big ass antennas only cost about $100.00. I am pretty lucky with a 177" VHF/UHF antenna fixed as 67.1,49.1,.2 do drop out at times but all the others are in fat city, even 25.1thru.9.
JJK

Why do I need a "big ass antenna"? I get all the local OTA digital HD ch's (save 25-1) with my very small and very discrete 23" saucer shaped outdoor antenna. Unless I bring people to the side of my house and point it out they don't even notice it. ;)

Maybe you meant this for JMann. :cool:

Toby10:
Geez!, Did I make another mistake?
JJK

.. nearly 50 miles from the 7 Hills antenna farms...
The only towers in 7 Hills are radio stations: WMMS-FM & WHK-AM. I used to live in 7 Hills and got WHK's signal over my phone (actually it was WRMR at the time but still 1420).

All the TV station transmitters (except for the analog WVIZ) are in the City of Parma. Even WBNX which is licensed to Akron is in Parma. BTW: most of the LPTV's licensed to Cleveland are on the WBNX tower on West Ridgewood Rd.

toby10:
Geez!, did i make another mistake?
Jjk

:D ha! :D

Wow,

Just discovered this forum, it's great.

I am Parma and using a pc card to watch tv on computer. Bought an antenna from best buy (omni-directional non amplified antenna) and only receive 3-4 channels. WKYC doesn't come in at all. Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? Can someone recommend a good antenna that will allow me to pick up the max amount of channels.

Wow,

Just discovered this forum, it's great.

I am Parma and using a pc card to watch tv on computer. Bought an antenna from best buy (omni-directional non amplified antenna) and only receive 3-4 channels. WKYC doesn't come in at all. Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? Can someone recommend a good antenna that will allow me to pick up the max amount of channels.
Welcome to the forums. As a fellow Parmanian I can share with you my experiences with OTA.

First, just becuase we live in the shadow of the towers that is no guarantee of flawlwss OTA reception. If anything, that proximity creates unique problems not shared by those not as close. For one thing forget using any kind of antenna amplifier. The overload will ruin your reception across the board. I'm glad you found an omni that was not amplified. There were no non-amplified omnis when I bought mine, I ended up running it without the power supply, and now I don't use it at all.

WKYC is currently on low band VHF for both analog and digital. Nothing short of an 8 foot beam will bring that one in (or rabbit ears fully extended). After Feb. '09 they will move to UHF ch 17 so it's not worth investing in low band antennas anymore.

You did not say where you mounted your omni. Is it outdoors or indoors? You should do a lot better than 3 or 4 channels even with 3-1 & 3-2 missing. If it's indoors you need to position it by a window (with no screen) facing the towers (not an easy task for most of us since the towers literally surround many of us - which is why, I guess, you chose an omni). Walls tend to do nasty things to the signals even if the tower lights illuminate your neighborhood. Aluminium siding, insulation and other building materials will block or distort the signals to the point where you cannot maintain a lock.

Here is some good news if you are a football fan and live at the top of the hill. WKBN-DT out of Youngstown comes in 24/7. They are CBS-HD plus a FOX-SD subchannel. So what you may ask? Becuase some Sundays there are different or extra NFL games available from this station that are not carried by WOIO or WJW.

Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? No, that is a cable/satellite pay channel. It's not transmitted OTA (except when WUAB simulcasts the Cavs).

Welcome to the forums. As a fellow Parmanian I can share with you my experiences with OTA.
(big snip)
Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? No, that is a cable/satellite pay channel. It's not transmitted OTA (except when WUAB simulcasts the Cavs).
FSN "HD" Ohio seldom has any program content at all. Either it has a blank screen or a very short Power Point Logo. When it does have an occasional show, none of the program guides list it. So they show some of the Cavilers home games, a few hockey games (some with two West Coast teams) and maybe a collage football or basketball game.

All the TV station transmitters (except for the analog WVIZ) are in the City of Parma.

oops...
I should have known better...
Ghoulardi's favorite town!
Ed...

Welcome to the forums. As a fellow Parmanian I can share with you my experiences with OTA.

First, just becuase we live in the shadow of the towers that is no guarantee of flawlwss OTA reception. If anything, that proximity creates unique problems not shared by those not as close. For one thing forget using any kind of antenna amplifier. The overload will ruin your reception across the board. I'm glad you found an omni that was not amplified. There were no non-amplified omnis when I bought mine, I ended up running it without the power supply, and now I don't use it at all.

WKYC is currently on low band VHF for both analog and digital. Nothing short of an 8 foot beam will bring that one in (or rabbit ears fully extended). After Feb. '09 they will move to UHF ch 17 so it's not worth investing in low band antennas anymore.

You did not say where you mounted your omni. Is it outdoors or indoors? You should do a lot better than 3 or 4 channels even with 3-1 & 3-2 missing. If it's indoors you need to position it by a window (with no screen) facing the towers (not an easy task for most of us since the towers literally surround many of us - which is why, I guess, you chose an omni). Walls tend to do nasty things to the signals even if the tower lights illuminate your neighborhood. Aluminium siding, insulation and other building materials will block or distort the signals to the point where you cannot maintain a lock.

Here is some good news if you are a football fan and live at the top of the hill. WKBN-DT out of Youngstown comes in 24/7. They are CBS-HD plus a FOX-SD subchannel. So what you may ask? Becuase some Sundays there are different or extra NFL games available from this station that are not carried by WOIO or WJW.

Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? No, that is a cable/satellite pay channel. It's not transmitted OTA (except when WUAB simulcasts the Cavs).

Thanks for the welcome,

I am currently using my computer with a tv card in it to watch television. My computer is in a closet so when I connect the RCA antenna I purchased I have to keep it in the closet (short cable). I am looking for an antenna that I could maybe mount in the attic hoping to improve reception. Don't want to spend too much as this is only for occasional viewing.

I can only pickup 5-1, 8-1, 43-1. There are 2 more that come in sporadically.

My son would love to see the cavs in HD somehow.

oops...
I should have known better...
Ghoulardi's favorite town!
Ed...

I'm old enough to remember Ghoulardi.:)

I'm actually in Parma Hts, Ghoulardi didn't know about us!

Thanks for the welcome,

I am currently using my computer with a tv card in it to watch television. My computer is in a closet so when I connect the RCA antenna I purchased I have to keep it in the closet (short cable). I am looking for an antenna that I could maybe mount in the attic hoping to improve reception. Don't want to spend too much as this is only for occasional viewing.

I can only pickup 5-1, 8-1, 43-1. There are 2 more that come in sporadically.

My son would love to see the cavs in HD somehow.

Being rather close to the antenna farm your existing antenna *might* pull in your desired locals if placed in the attic, as high as possible.
Anything indoors (including attic) will have signal loss, but optimizing your existing antennas location and height in the attic may well do the trick.
Obviously a long cable run, but might be worth a shot. :cool:

Update:
I talked to mu guru buddy in Sheffield Lake and he said the Time/Warner line to his house is RG-6 copper. My uncle also said his was copper.
JJK

I'm old enough to remember Ghoulardi.:)

I'm actually in Parma Hts, Ghoulardi didn't know about us!

Stay COOL Group!
http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/fed88d4a7b03c708411f8189b5562576e2dd0bcc/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/faae5610-9649-012b-c33f-fcf8d3d96903/ghoulardi1_large.jpg
http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/d8b81b3a45774b69b7e34c559847ced8096e5169/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/c2a13720-964c-012b-c33e-f9709a2f1435/ghoulardi2_large.jpg

What's BT? I think you can watch old episodes on ABC.com.
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=index

Nobody answered, Bit Torrent and of course you can watch episodes of shows on your computer. But if you want to watch it on your HDTV you can download the show, usually in 720p.

Now how you get it to your television, that requires a little extra equipment. TiVo does it but I think there are other things that can do it to but I'm not sure.

Bit Torrent is suppose to be a no no but I don't think it's illegal provided you don't distribute it. But the moment you download your BT app starts uploading, but I keep mine down to just 10kb so nobody gets much from me.

I just take, I don't give.:D

Update:
I talked to mu guru buddy in Sheffield Lake and he said the Time/Warner line to his house is RG-6 copper. My uncle also said his was copper.
JJK

That's kinda what I suspected. I'm surprised they are not using a beefier cable run to the house though.
RG6 is the same cable they give you on basic cable installs.

As long as it all works. :)

Stay COOL Group!
http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/fed88d4a7b03c708411f8189b5562576e2dd0bcc/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/faae5610-9649-012b-c33f-fcf8d3d96903/ghoulardi1_large.jpg
http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/d8b81b3a45774b69b7e34c559847ced8096e5169/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/c2a13720-964c-012b-c33e-f9709a2f1435/ghoulardi2_large.jpg

Hey, another purple knif ova dey! :D

That's kinda what I suspected. I'm surprised they are not using a beefier cable run to the house though.
RG6 is the same cable they give you on basic cable installs.

As long as it all works. :)

An exceptionally long drop might require RG-11 from the pole to the ground block. Inside the house though it's always RG-6.

Nobody answered, Bit Torrent and of course you can watch episodes of shows on your computer. But if you want to watch it on your HDTV you can download the show, usually in 720p.

Now how you get it to your television, that requires a little extra equipment. TiVo does it but I think there are other things that can do it to but I'm not sure.

Bit Torrent is suppose to be a no no but I don't think it's illegal provided you don't distribute it. But the moment you download your BT app starts uploading, but I keep mine down to just 10kb so nobody gets much from me.

I just take, I don't give.:D

Hookbill, is that you? I'm drowning in a sea of OTA chatter!! :p Before you jump on me, I'm pissed today because I realized it is OTA's fault I don;t get to see Prison Break tomorrow. Since FOX Cleveland is showing a ESPN MNF GAME.

That being said, I see hook is a taker. Don't worry, I usually leave the file up for a while too, then I dump it once I close the program if it uses too much memory.

To watch it on TV, all you need is a TV with an RGB input and a RGB cable plus an audio cable if you want better sound than computer speakers(my stock Dell speakers are pretty ****** so I use my TV speaker system). After that, make sure you set the computer output to a widescreen setting, such as 1280x720.

Did anybody else notice WJW leaving the Bears/Green Bay game way early today ? I flipped back to Fox after looking at another game and was shocked to see the MIN/TB game on. There will still 8 minutes to go in Green Bay. I didn't think the networks were allowed to leave a game early like that.

(and yes I know Chicago got blown out of the water, but it's the principle of the thing :D )

Before you jump on me, I'm pissed today because I realized it is OTA's fault I don;t get to see Prison Break tomorrow.


My TiVo is telling me that Prison Break will be aired Wednesday at 7pm.

This was a problem during Boston Legal last night and it's happening again now during CSI:NY. There is a static-interference noise in the background on 5's HD channel. I watched the news at 11 and the sound was fine, but now it has been messed up. The analog channel sounds fine, but not the digital.

I cannot wait for February 2009 when all these affiliates will make fools of themselves on EVERY TV set in NE Ohio, once there is no more analog channel.

My TiVo is telling me that Prison Break will be aired Wednesday at 7pm.

But will it be HD? Probably not as FOX locally lacks the HD recording equipment and the FOX splicer system's current set up won't let the affiliate touch the digital feed, other than passing it through.

And ever since the jackasses at FOX decided to letterbox SD programming this year, the unfortunate side effect for those of us with HDTVs is we get to watch a 'picture inside a picture' in windowbox format.

I'm still going with Bit Torrent since it will be HD. And commercial free. And the 16x9 HD picture will fill my HD screen.

Did anybody else notice WJW leaving the Bears/Green Bay game way early today ? I flipped back to Fox after looking at another game and was shocked to see the MIN/TB game on. There will still 8 minutes to go in Green Bay. I didn't think the networks were allowed to leave a game early like that.

(and yes I know Chicago got blown out of the water, but it's the principle of the thing :D )
I didn't notice it on Fox, but Channel 4 left the Giants/Ravens game with 8 minutes or so to go in the 4th quarter. After the commercial they were broadcasting the Denver/Atlanta game with no explanation. I even rewound to see if I had been "napping" while the Giants game ended but no... before the commercial it was one game, after the commercial it was the other game, also in the 4th quarter!! ???

An exceptionally long drop might require RG-11 from the pole to the ground block. Inside the house though it's always RG-6.

Yes, inside RG6 is fine. They ran RG11 from the street for my WOW cable bundle service (Voip, TV, Internet).

What I'm surprised at is the use of RG6 from the street to the residence in a FiOS (or like) fiber optic install, which is what JJKizak was finding out from his contact who had the service installed.

They probably install anything laying in the truck.
JJK

My TiVo is telling me that Prison Break will be aired Wednesday at 7pm.

And what about Terminator?

Oh, I just saw nickdawgs post. Good point, will it be in HD?

Hookbill, is that you? I'm drowning in a sea of OTA chatter!! :p Before you jump on me, I'm pissed today because I realized it is OTA's fault I don;t get to see Prison Break tomorrow. Since FOX Cleveland is showing a ESPN MNF GAME.



How can it be OTA's fault? It's the local FOX affiliates fault, with their new owners.

Think about it nicdawg. Now concentrate real hard...............:p;)

They probably install anything laying in the truck.
JJK

Ha! :D Quite possible. ;)

How can it be OTA's fault? It's the local FOX affiliates fault, with their new owners.

Think about it nicdawg. Now concentrate real hard...............:p;)

If more people had ESPN, of if the OWNERS just ignored the tiny minority with OTA, we wouldn't be in this situation now. That should be the rule. You want to see an ESPN game, GET ESPN!!!!

And if I watch that game tonight, I'm going to be watching it on ESPN!!!! I'm not even giving WJ(ackass)W the time of day.

Really makes me want to get a stronger antenna to pick up WKBN-2. They're not even HD and they are far superior to WJW. Plus I wouldn't have to see their OBNOXIOUS news people(Stephanie, Stacey, etc) on commercials.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad:

This was a problem during Boston Legal last night and it's happening again now during CSI:NY. There is a static-interference noise in the background on 5's HD channel. I watched the news at 11 and the sound was fine, but now it has been messed up. The analog channel sounds fine, but not the digital.

I cannot wait for February 2009 when all these affiliates will make fools of themselves on EVERY TV set in NE Ohio, once there is no more analog channel.
I caught that static too. It was also on the Dish Network feeds (both HD & SD) I ended up watching CSI: NY on WEWS analog :p . The fact that the audio problem was heard on E* SD menas that E* has already made the switch to the digital feed for the SD feed.

BTW: I almost watched CSI:NY from WKBN-DT but they were showing a different episode and their syndicated programs are still SD. Usually both stations have the same episode (maybe that is on Saturdays only). BTW: The E* EPG had the wrong episode description for WKBN.

Hookbill, is that you? I'm drowning in a sea of OTA chatter!! Before you jump on me, I'm pissed today because I realized it is OTA's fault I don;t get to see Prison Break tomorrow. Since FOX Cleveland is showing a ESPN MNF GAME.
If you really would rather see Prison Break at it's usual time insted of Brady & Da Dawgs get a decent UHF outdoor antenna and aim it at Youngstown. WKBN-DT with WYFX on 27-2 will have your beloved show.

As for me I'll be watching WJW-DT because that is the only way I'll see the game in HD 16X9 downrezzed to my old CRT. I don't sub to the HD version of ESPN yet (although I do get STO & FSN in HD along with all my locals).

I'm old enough to remember Ghoulardi.:)

I'm actually in Parma Hts, Ghoulardi didn't know about us!

But, are you old enough to remember Mad Daddy Pete Myers (sp) ???

Yes, inside RG6 is fine. They ran RG11 from the street for my WOW cable bundle service (Voip, TV, Internet).

What I'm surprised at is the use of RG6 from the street to the residence in a FiOS (or like) fiber optic install, which is what JJKizak was finding out from his contact who had the service installed.

If there's enough signal available to deliver reasonably flat response at 0dbmv or better at the set after a splitter, RG-6 is just fine.

If more people had ESPN, of if the OWNERS just ignored the tiny minority with OTA, we wouldn't be in this situation now. That should be the rule. You want to see an ESPN game, GET ESPN!!!!

And if I watch that game tonight, I'm going to be watching it on ESPN!!!! I'm not even giving WJ(ackass)W the time of day.

Really makes me want to get a stronger antenna to pick up WKBN-2. They're not even HD and they are far superior to WJW. Plus I wouldn't have to see their OBNOXIOUS news people(Stephanie, Stacey, etc) on commercials.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Actually you have a valid point. I heard recently on FOX 8 News that approximately 12% of the viewing public use antenna. Now I don't think that included people with digital television, I believe it was just analog users.

Actually you have a valid point. I heard recently on FOX 8 News that approximately 12% of the viewing public use antenna. Now I don't think that included people with digital television, I believe it was just analog users.

And I expect that number to drop. As hard as it is to get all the channels with digital, compared to analog, I'd expect there will be more cable converts next year. Right now I can get all the Cleveland stations plus 21 and 27 from Y-town. Even though they're really fuzzy, they still come in. With my current antenna, there's no way I could get all the channels in digital. The same will go for many others with older antennas.

I can see it already: OTA TV: 194?-2009. :D

I'm beginning to wonder if nickdawg works for any political campaigns. The way he tears into people, companies, and TV stations is absolutely amazing. He could go places with that. ;)

- Trip

I'm beginning to wonder if nickdawg works for any political campaigns. The way he tears into people, companies, and TV stations is absolutely amazing. He could go places with that. ;)

- Trip

Oh God! Trip, if you've got some time take a look at some of his posts in the past. While nickdawg and I have a comfortable relationship there are times when I wanted to jump through the screen and give him a cyber beating. In fact verbally I have.

No offense to nickdawg but he doesn't see the big picture in things and often speaks on emotion more then fact.

And as anyone here will tell you In never do that.:rolleyes:;)

After the transition, it looks like some stations power will be going up, and others down in power. I was thinking of getting a preamp, but figured to wait until after the transition, and a few weeks of the issues that are sure to arise after the shutoff.

Am I correct in my thinking?

I was thinking of getting a preamp, but figured to wait until after the transition, and a few weeks of the issues that are sure to arise after the shutoff.

Am I correct in my thinking?

Why wait until after the transition? A preamp will help either side of that date unless you have multi-path issues or are too close to the transmitters.

Why wait until after the transition? A preamp will help either side of that date unless you have multi-path issues or are too close to the transmitters.

My thinking is to wait and see after the transition. I'm not too bad now with getting the stations from Toledo analog. The digital ones are up about 50% of the time. I'm just not certain the preamp will help to make the digital stations come in closer to 100% of of time.

The preamp recommended will add a gain of about 18db, then taking off 50 ft of RG6, and a splitter is probably a loss of about 13db, leaving me with a gain of about 5db. The gain on my antenna is about 7db.

The two stations WTOL is at 5.2 currently, and WUPW is at -6.6.

WTOL comes in digital quite frequently, while WUPW comes in digital once in awhile.

Both are great on analog.


Sorry to bore everyone with the details, but it gives a better picture.

If you live too close to the towers, a preamp could cause you overload problems.

I agree, wait for the transition.

- Trip

If you live too close to the towers, a preamp could cause you overload problems.

I agree, wait for the transition.

- Trip

That's my thinking.

I do have some strong LOS stations, I'm still 30 miles from the tower farm in Parma. No problems toward Toledo. The preamp recommended is the AP-8700.

This takes into account the strong LOS stations.

I would hate to buy the preamp, have it work, then after the transistion have issues.............

he doesn't see the big picture in things and often speaks on emotion more then fact.

And as anyone here will tell you In never do that.:rolleyes:;)

Of course. You've never spoke out on emotions before. :D;)

Of course. You've never spoke out on emotions before. :D;)

OK, you two...do we have to turn this car around? We will.



:D

If your tv has a QAM tuner, you should be able to get Time Warner's Lifeline Basic cable package.
It consists of analog channels 2-20, but on the QAM frequncy, you should be able to get all of the local stations in DT/HD. This is what I have and am very happy with it since it is all I need for tv and costs me less than $15/month.

This post piqued my interest... how does this work? My EyeTV hybrid includes a QAM tuner, however I called Time Warner and 3 different reps said I couldn't get HD unless I got digital cable with a box???

Can you fill me in on how this works?

Thanks,
Josh

If you live too close to the towers, a preamp could cause you overload problems.

I agree, wait for the transition.

- Trip

Unfortunately some stations may not be at "maximized" power by February 17, so things may get better even after the transition. The FCC seems slow about approving these requests, especially here with the Canadian coordination issues and nearby market interference issues (Detroit).

This post piqued my interest... how does this work? My EyeTV hybrid includes a QAM tuner, however I called Time Warner and 3 different reps said I couldn't get HD unless I got digital cable with a box???

Can you fill me in on how this works?

Thanks,
Josh

Cable CSR's are either trained to tell you this or are simply not informed about QAM. And as QAM offers no $$$ to the cable co., I wouldn't train them in QAM usage either if it were my co. or department. :D

One of the reasons they don't want to even acknowledge QAM tuning, rightfully so, is the very issue you are having. You have a QAM tuner, but you know nothing about QAM services, how it works, what you need to do, etc... The cable co has little interest in helping people solve issues for a service they provide for free. Throw in the many different types of QAM tuners out there, with different menu functions and features, and it could quickly become a CS nightmare.

QAM works, but it's quirky as ch's move around and limited or no program data.
But it is there, it's local's in HD, and people do use it.

Dunno what EyeTV is but it must have a QAM section in it's manual, no?

Cable CSR's are either trained to tell you this or are simply not informed about QAM. And as QAM offers no $$$ to the cable co., I wouldn't train them in QAM usage either if it were my co. or department. :D

QAM works, but it's quirky as ch's move around and limited or no program data.
But it is there, it's local's in HD, and people do use it.

Dunno what EyeTV is but it must have a QAM section in it's manual, no?

EyeTV is just a tuner for my Mac and the newest version has QAM support, at least it says so on the box. It should detect the channels and pull up a program guide from Titan TV and I can use my Mac as my DVR. I just want to get ABC, NBC, FOX etc in HD without messing with an over the air antenna. $15 a month seems worth it I guess.

This post piqued my interest... how does this work? My EyeTV hybrid includes a QAM tuner, however I called Time Warner and 3 different reps said I couldn't get HD unless I got digital cable with a box???

Can you fill me in on how this works?

Thanks,
Josh

Well, that is and isn't true. You can get some HD, your local stations and maybe one or two others but nothing else.

From what I see with QAM somtimes if you do a scan you may see one of the other HD channels but don't count on it.

And even their digital channels are limited. Mostly it's music and shopping channels, so if you want the full benefits of HD and digital get the box.

EyeTV is just a tuner for my Mac and the newest version has QAM support, at least it says so on the box. It should detect the channels and pull up a program guide from Titan TV and I can use my Mac as my DVR. I just want to get ABC, NBC, FOX etc in HD without messing with an over the air antenna. $15 a month seems worth it I guess.

Ah, cool. :) Then that should do it for you. QAM usually requires a full scan of all possible ch's to tune in any ch's. Then you can sift through the results. Have fun and fiddle! :p

I switch over to my QAM maybe twice a year, on a snowy day like today, when I'm bored. Poke around, see what's there. That's about it. I prefer OTA for local HD ch's.

Ah, cool. :) Then that should do it for you. QAM usually requires a full scan of all possible ch's to tune in any ch's. Then you can sift through the results. Have fun and fiddle! :p

The QAM scanning process takes a LONG time. A LONG time. Even on the fastest tuner I've seen.

There's not a lot the tuner makers can do about it...TWC, for example, has a large number of QAM channels. Last time I checked, it was well into triple digits.

The bad news, of course, is only a small number of those channels are unscrambled and available to view with a QAM tuner. Usually the locals in digital and/or HD, and a handful of other channels you probably don't care about (the "BARKER" channel that sells PPV movies and shows, a bunch of shopping channels, etc.).

I'm not sure even STOHD is still in clear QAM these days. Here in the ex-Adelphia part of TWC, we used to get DISCHD (Discovery HD Theater) in the clear, but I'm sure that's gone now.

Down here in Canton, we NEVER got STO-HD. That would have been nice.

I have 4 different QAM tuners in my house. 3 of them do take a long time to scan. Although in their defense, they ARE scanning all NTSC/ATSC/QAM channels, then sorting all those channels too.
One of the tuners however, is VERY fast. I can do a rescan at any time and it only takes about 10 minutes. Why is it different?... no NTSC, only ATSC/QAM. ;)

Actually you have a valid point. I heard recently on FOX 8 News that approximately 12% of the viewing public use antenna. Now I don't think that included people with digital television, I believe it was just analog users.
While only 12% use OTA, there is another group of viewers with "lifeline" basic cable or a "family pack" satellite subscription. Add those to the 12% and you will get the total number of viewers who would not have seen yesterday's Browns game without WJW's carrying the game (since ESPN is not carried in these packs).

And don't forget an even larger number of viewers (i.e. TWC customers) need to be added for NFL Network's Thursday Night games. So we should all be thankful that the NFL allows the local station in the two team's markets to carry the "cable" games!

Unfortunately some stations may not be at "maximized" power by February 17, so things may get better even after the transition. The FCC seems slow about approving these requests, especially here with the Canadian coordination issues and nearby market interference issues (Detroit).

Again another reason to wait for the shutoff....and let everything shake out a while. I have a feeling that there is going to be a 30 day grace period that has been asked for.....

I believe the biggest amount of hollaring will come from people using rabbit ears to pick up the digital stations. Might require a TARP bailout.
JJK

The QAM scanning process takes a LONG time. A LONG time. Even on the fastest tuner I've seen.

There's not a lot the tuner makers can do about it...TWC, for example, has a large number of QAM channels. Last time I checked, it was well into triple digits.

The bad news, of course, is only a small number of those channels are unscrambled and available to view with a QAM tuner. Usually the locals in digital and/or HD, and a handful of other channels you probably don't care about (the "BARKER" channel that sells PPV movies and shows, a bunch of shopping channels, etc.).

One of the common problems I've seen with QAM tuner implementations is that many units won't differentiate between encrypted and clear-qam channels, throwing all of therm into the list of available channels. Then the user has to manually visit each channel, check to see if there's a picture there, and delete the ones that produce a blank screen. This can be very time consuming.

One of the common problems I've seen with QAM tuner implementations is that many units won't differentiate between encrypted and clear-qam channels, throwing all of therm into the list of available channels. Then the user has to manually visit each channel, check to see if there's a picture there, and delete the ones that produce a blank screen. This can be very time consuming.

From my experience, it seems that there isn't likely an way for the QAM tuner to know what is and is not available. It would be more up to the cable compnay to not have "scrambled" channels out there, BUT, that may require a LOT of work on their part which they are NOT willing to do.

While only 12% use OTA, there is another group of viewers with "lifeline" basic cable or a "family pack" satellite subscription. Add those to the 12% and you will get the total number of viewers who would not have seen yesterday's Browns game without WJW's carrying the game (since ESPN is not carried in these packs).

And don't forget an even larger number of viewers (i.e. TWC customers) need to be added for NFL Network's Thursday Night games. So we should all be thankful that the NFL allows the local station in the two team's markets to carry the "cable" games!

You know what I have to say to those people? Tough s**t. The game was on ESPN. Because of a few of these morons, two of my programs were not shown at there proper time.

And nickdawg is correct, they are showing these episodes in SD!

If the Browns had a decent team and had a real shot at making the playoffs, which believe me they don't because they will play Pittsburgh again then I could understand why Cleveland, being a football town, might want to see this. But this illusion of the Browns being any type of a contender is absolute nonsense. Even when they win it's ugly.

I just don't believe that if FOX was still O&O this would have happened.

You know what I have to say to those people? Tough s**t. The game was on ESPN. Because of a few of these morons, two of my programs were not shown at there proper time.

And nickdawg is correct, they are showing these episodes in SD!

If the Browns had a decent team and had a real shot at making the playoffs, which believe me they don't because they will play Pittsburgh again then I could understand why Cleveland, being a football town, might want to see this. But this illusion of the Browns being any type of a contender is absolute nonsense. Even when they win it's ugly.

I just don't believe that if FOX was still O&O this would have happened.

Hey hookbill:


It's from Canadian channel Global HD. Guess what, HD with no popups or advertising on screen. Just a bug and a TV rating.

How were the replays on FOX tonight? Was it letterbox with sidebars? I hate letterboxing!:mad:

Hey hookbill:

http://www.torrentportal.com/download/3732445/Prison.Break.S04E11.HDTV.XviD-vXv.torrent

It's from Canadian channel Global HD. Guess what, HD with no popups or advertising on screen. Just a bug and a TV rating.

How were the replays on FOX tonight? Was it letterbox with sidebars? I hate letterboxing!:mad:

Just so you know, those torrents aren't TRUE HD. In fact they aren't even full SD. Check the video size. 624x352. SD is 720x480 (probably closer to about 720x400 by the time the letterboxing is taken into account). 720p is 1280x720 and 1080i/p is 1920x1080. Huge difference. But it does have the slight advantage that it's downressed from an original HD source so compression artifacts aren't as noticable as that from an SD source.

I just wish these people would actually start releasing these in full HD and not some fake garbage.

Um, folks? I'm pretty certain this stuff here's a rules violation. And very likely a law violation.

- Trip

Just so you know, those torrents aren't TRUE HD. In fact they aren't even full SD. Check the video size. 624x352. SD is 720x480 (probably closer to about 720x400 by the time the letterboxing is taken into account). 720p is 1280x720 and 1080i/p is 1920x1080. Huge difference. But it does have the slight advantage that it's downressed from an original HD source so compression artifacts aren't as noticable as that from an SD source.

I just wish these people would actually start releasing these in full HD and not some fake garbage.

I checked that one, 624x352. But it still looks far better than SDTV cable does. Although I suppose that will change soon once cable follows the lead of satellite and starts downconverting SD from HD. Plus, I've seen in another thread that other countries get FOX shows in 1080i instead of 720p. So they're taking an even better source and downconverting.

I took it down for now. I'll make sure hook saw it in the morning.

Just so you know, those torrents aren't TRUE HD. In fact they aren't even full SD. Check the video size. 624x352. SD is 720x480 (probably closer to about 720x400 by the time the letterboxing is taken into account). 720p is 1280x720 and 1080i/p is 1920x1080. Huge difference. But it does have the slight advantage that it's downressed from an original HD source so compression artifacts aren't as noticable as that from an SD source.

I just wish these people would actually start releasing these in full HD and not some fake garbage.

Well, it's far better then watching in SD and it does come in Dolby 5.1. If it isn't "true" HD you could have fooled me.

Hey hookbill:


It's from Canadian channel Global HD. Guess what, HD with no popups or advertising on screen. Just a bug and a TV rating.

How were the replays on FOX tonight? Was it letterbox with sidebars? I hate letterboxing!:mad:

I didn't watch it. My TiVo started recording it and I just happened to have it on 408 so I noticed it wasn't in HD.

Yes, it had side bars, looked like crap and no Dolby!:mad:

Well, it's far better then watching in SD and it does come in Dolby 5.1. If it isn't "true" HD you could have fooled me.

No doubt and fully agreed. I just want someone to start releasing the full TS files for once or at least do a proper encode keeping the full resolution in check. **** file size, we got single terabyte drives now and 10-20mbit connections.

I didn't watch it. My TiVo started recording it and I just happened to have it on 408 so I noticed it wasn't in HD.

Yes, it had side bars, looked like crap and no Dolby!:mad:

And the worst part is this season we get bars on FOUR sides!! I would watch PB if it were 4:3 with sidebars, that's not too bad. But when it is windowboxed, I can't stand it.

I can't wait until February. Once network analog feeds go away, we'll always have either 16x9 on network programming or 4x3 on non-HD stuff. Plus the SD local channels will be 4x3 also. NBC will look a hell of a lot better on my SDTV. :D

And the worst part is this season we get bars on FOUR sides!! I would watch PB if it were 4:3 with sidebars, that's not too bad. But when it is windowboxed, I can't stand it.

I can't wait until February. Once network analog feeds go away, we'll always have either 16x9 on network programming or 4x3 on non-HD stuff. Plus the SD local channels will be 4x3 also. NBC will look a hell of a lot better on my SDTV. :D

No, I didn't see that. Just bars on the side.

Probably need to change a setting in your DVR, or so you call it.:D

No, I didn't see that. Just bars on the side.

Probably need to change a setting in your DVR, or so you call it.:D

Huh? I know that FOX changed their SDTV feed this year. I'll have to look at PB tomorrow to see if it is the same. Maybe FOX8 is being kind and over-riding FOX's letterboxing.

My thinking is to wait and see after the transition. I'm not too bad now with getting the stations from Toledo analog. The digital ones are up about 50% of the time. I'm just not certain the preamp will help to make the digital stations come in closer to 100% of of time.

The preamp recommended will add a gain of about 18db, then taking off 50 ft of RG6, and a splitter is probably a loss of about 13db, leaving me with a gain of about 5db. The gain on my antenna is about 7db.

The two stations WTOL is at 5.2 currently, and WUPW is at -6.6.

WTOL comes in digital quite frequently, while WUPW comes in digital once in awhile.

Both are great on analog.

Sorry to bore everyone with the details, but it gives a better picture.
Out in Sheffield Lake, you should be fine with a preamp, since you are plenty far enough from the towers in Parma. I would make sure, however, that the preamp has an FM notch filter built-in, since a close-by FM transmitter could possibly cause problems. This is pretty standard for most higher-quality preamps. RG-6 is specified at 7 dB loss per 100-ft at 400 MHz, so should be less than 10 dB at 600 MHz (the highest high-power TV channel) and drop down to 3 dB at 174 MHz. On average for digital stations around channel 30, your 50-ft length should result in no more than 5 dB of loss, plus another 7 dB or so for a 4-way splitter, or 12 dB total loss. So your figures are pretty good. To preserve the noise figure of the LNA, you really want about 10 dB of gain over cable/distribution loss, but 5-6 dB gain won't degrade it too much, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Along with the power changes you mentioned, there are also going to be frequency and antenna system changes, some of which might very well not happen until the spring or later. In any case, out where you are, there will probably be more dB variation due to path and multipath losses than differences in ERP levels adjusted for frequency. I believe the preamp would be a safe bet now as well as later. Plus, it might help you get some good TV DX!

Ron J.

Out in Sheffield Lake, you should be fine with a preamp, since you are plenty far enough from the towers in Parma. I would make sure, however, that the preamp has an FM notch filter built-in, since a close-by FM transmitter could possibly cause problems. This is pretty standard for most higher-quality preamps. RG-6 is specified at 7 dB loss per 100-ft at 400 MHz, so should be less than 10 dB at 600 MHz (the highest high-power TV channel) and drop down to 3 dB at 174 MHz. On average for digital stations around channel 30, your 50-ft length should result in no more than 5 dB of loss, plus another 7 dB or so for a 4-way splitter, or 12 dB total loss. So your figures are pretty good. To preserve the noise figure of the LNA, you really want about 10 dB of gain over cable/distribution loss, but 5-6 dB gain won't degrade it too much, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Along with the power changes you mentioned, there are also going to be frequency and antenna system changes, some of which might very well not happen until the spring or later. In any case, out where you are, there will probably be more dB variation due to path and multipath losses than differences in ERP levels adjusted for frequency. I believe the preamp would be a safe bet now as well as later. Plus, it might help you get some good TV DX!

Ron J.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Just to let you know, currently there is no splitter, just an female to female connector to connect the cable coming into the attic to the cable going down the wall. The cable down the wall goes straight to the TV.

I most certainly will have a FM trap on the amp. I use a seperate homemade antenna in the attic for FM, so there is not need for the antenna to get FM signals.

I think it may be preamp time.

One of the common problems I've seen with QAM tuner implementations is that many units won't differentiate between encrypted and clear-qam channels, throwing all of therm into the list of available channels. Then the user has to manually visit each channel, check to see if there's a picture there, and delete the ones that produce a blank screen. This can be very time consuming.

My LCD's QAM tuner is like this. It takes something close to 45 minutes (!) to scan QAM channels, and only those properly labeled by TWC (generally, the locals) are easy to find.

You then have to go through all the Music Choice channels, and figure out what's left that isn't scrambled.

I can't help but believe that the cable companies want it this way, to keep QAM confusing and time consuming, so you'll just give up and buy digital cable.

You guys are all lucky that you can get the music channels with TW's QAM. No musice here in Canton. :(

You guys are all lucky that you can get the music channels with TW's QAM. No musice here in Canton. :(

I don't really care one way or the other - I wish TWC would label them properly, though, so I can quickly choose or avoid them!

I can't help but believe that the cable companies want it this way, to keep QAM confusing and time consuming, so you'll just give up and buy digital cable.

You are joking, arn't you? I mean do you really expect the cable company to miss out on the oppertunity of selling a box?:rolleyes:

You are joking, arn't you? I mean do you really expect the cable company to miss out on the oppertunity of selling a box?:rolleyes:

It's a pain in the ass and I honestly hope it fades away over the years. Clear QAM channels and analog channels are the cinder block tied to cable's feet. Analog wastes tons of bandwidth that could be used on HDTV or other services. Enter SDV. Ahhh, but(and I mean a BIG Oprah butt!) channels on SDV cannot be in clear QAM. The only GOOD solution would be to adopt a policy like satellite. Every TV needs a box and most(if not all) channels are put on SDV. I've been reading for years about Interactive TV services. When I had D* several years back, we had interactive tv. You could get local weather info on the Weather Channel and other channels sent along additional data. Navigator is set up for Enhanced TV services like Start Over, but the Enhanced menu is currently only used for HDTV channels.

This is why cable sucks. They have to follow an entirely different set of rules. Satellite companies are playing basketball and TWC shows up in football gear, ready to play football. Cable has to make sure every cheapwad can watch a lineup of some 60 channels without a box, cable has to act as an "analog OTA surrogate" for people who won't get a new TV, even thought the damn government is giving TWO coupons for OTA converters. Cable has to follow "must carry" laws and certain channels have to be "in the clear". I know what channels they are, Passport used to identify the HDTV local channels as "Clear To Air" while others were called "subscription". Cable has to make their system compatible with every POS company where some moron decided he can "build a better mousetrap" and put a cablecard slot on it.

Cable would have to bend over backwards to make their system accommodate my microwave oven(if I could put a QAM tuner or cablecard slot on it):D:D

Directv tells you to use their box or hit the bricks.

For once I agree with Directv.

I just don't believe that if FOX was still O&O this would have happened.
The deal for FOX 8 to carry the ESPN games was made before the station sold. I believe they even carried an ESPN game last season on FOX 8 when they were very much still owned by FOX. Bottom line, being an O&O is no guarantee that the main network feed will be preempted.

The deal for FOX 8 to carry the ESPN games was made before the station sold. I believe they even carried an ESPN game last season on FOX 8 when they were very much still owned by FOX. Bottom line, being an O&O is no guarantee that the main network feed will be preempted.

I guarantee they did NOT carry any games last year. The only other channel to carry them was WKYC pre games. Did they do a Sunday night game? That would have been on NBC. And they were not on Monday night football.

They were expected to do well this year hence the prime spotlight games.

If the deal was made prior to the new owners taking control, which MAY have happened it was part of the deal to sell. Network O&O do not pull there shows for other events.

And I'm not sure you're right about this in the first place. What evidence can you show me that the deal was made before the buy?

It's not my DVR. PB is up right now, bars on all four sides. Looks like s..t. I'd rather watch my BT version instead.

I am convinced WJW would have made this decision even if the network still owned it.

It would have been a more difficult decision, since it would indeed impact a network show like "Prison Break", but they'd have made it. WJW likely made a ton of money by selling local spots during the Browns game...it's virtually a license to print money in this town, no matter what the team is doing.

My gut tells me that FOX would mostly be concerned about pre-empting not something like "Prison Break", but something like "American Idol".

nickdawg you were right. FOX's broadcast on the HD channels are letterboxed. I caught it tonight as Prison Break was coming on.

You are joking, arn't you? I mean do you really expect the cable company to miss out on the oppertunity of selling a box?:rolleyes:

Read my message again. That's exactly what I was saying - that cable companies are happy with keeping QAM confusing, so that customers would just give up and get a digital cable box.

I'm happy too! :D:D:D

And hookbill is right. In all the years of FOX, WJW rarely canceled regular programming. And if they did, it was low rent programming, not a big show like Prison Break.

Is Prison Break really that big???

From my experience, it seems that there isn't likely an way for the QAM tuner to know what is and is not available. It would be more up to the cable compnay to not have "scrambled" channels out there, BUT, that may require a LOT of work on their part which they are NOT willing to do.

Decent tuning software can and does detect encrypted channels. Encrypted programs are often marked as such (in TSReader). And my Samsung LCD TV filters out channels it detects as scrambled without me ever taking any action.

Also, tuning software can mark anything it can't decode as unencrypted or unavailable.

Can any1 tell me why Armstrong here in Medina is not show the cavs/pistons in HD?
Its advertised on cavs.com but I'm not getting the feed. This happened on sat. vs the jazz. It was advertised as being show in hd but all i get is a blank screen.

I'm seriously thinking about changing to directv.

Is Prison Break really that big???

They haven't broken out yet!?!

Can any1 tell me why Armstrong here in Medina is not show the cavs/pistons in HD?

I can't speak for Armstrong or why it isn't showing it, but we're getting it here on TWC (Cleveland system) in HD on 436.

I'm getting the game fine on channel 436. Finally, one of those two worthless channels(436,437) has some programming on it. I thought FSN was supposed to have a 24/7 broadcast on their HD channel this year.

Is Prison Break really that big???

It goes way beyond breaking out of a prison. They did that a long time ago. Matter of fact they have broken out of two prisons.

There is a lot of intrigue based around the idea that a "company" is trying or is really running the United States. Also watching the characters develop has been real interesting. Some of the one's you hated are starting to show a decent side while others are still just as evil as ever.

Great show, catch up with it on DVD if you can.

I'm getting the game fine on channel 436. Finally, one of those two worthless channels(436,437) has some programming on it. I thought FSN was supposed to have a 24/7 broadcast on their HD channel this year.

I'm not sure when that'll eventually happen, but it's supposed to happen. I thought it would be by now, too.

I'm guessing that 437 is an FSNHD overflow channel, for (example, just a guess) when the Cavaliers and Blue Jackets play at the same time.


Great show, catch up with it on DVD if you can.

I'm sure it is...I was just wondering how important "Prison Break" is in the FOX universe, re: its preemption on FOX 8.

WOW has (finally) added WVIZ-HD on channel 205. It is available via QAM.

I'm sure it is...I was just wondering how important "Prison Break" is in the FOX universe, re: its preemption on FOX 8.

That question has been answered. Apparently the powers at this time feel football was more important. I'm telling you that if FOX was still O&O that would not have happened.

That question has been answered. Apparently the powers at this time feel football was more important. I'm telling you that if FOX was still O&O that would not have happened.

I meant the importance of "Prison Break" in the network's mind...not the affiliate.

My only contention is that FOX 8 as an O&O may have had a more difficult time making the decision to pre-empt "Prison Break", but probably would have made the move anyway.

Do you have any idea how much money the station makes off of selling local commercial time on a Browns game? :D Even when the team is not heading for the playoffs, the numbers for those games are through the roof.

My own personal thought is that FOX 8, under network ownership, would have passed on the game if it would have preempted "American Idol". As popular as it may be, "Prison Break" is no "Idol"...really, nothing on TV is, as far as ratings power.

I also allow that the new owners would potentially more aggressively go after the MNF Browns games. I just can't say, in my own head, that FOX would have instantly said no as an owner of WJW. My gut feeling is that WJW would still be in the bidding, but Local TV was probably more willing to compete against the other stations for the games than FOX would have been.

WOW has (finally) added WVIZ-HD on channel 205. It is available via QAM.

About friggin time! :p

ajstan, are you experiencing some serious issues with the WOW analogs? My guess is that they are attempting to update their equipment for SDV and it isn't going well. Some days the analogs are very good, next day they are unwatchable (PBS and WEWS have a black screen sometimes).

Digital's seem unaffected, from what I can tell.

Just wondering how wide spread this is. Thanks :)

About friggin time! :p

ajstan, are you experiencing some serious issues with the WOW analogs? My guess is that they are attempting to update their equipment for SDV and it isn't going well. Some days the analogs are very good, next day they are unwatchable (PBS and WEWS have a black screen sometimes).

Digital's seem unaffected, from what I can tell.

Just wondering how wide spread this is. Thanks :)
The analogs have been looking worse to me as well. Glad you posted, as I had been thinking that it was just me being overly critical after getting used to the HD stations.:)

While marginally better when tuning via the cable box vs. the TV, IIRC it used to look a whole lot better. Also, the PQ variance between TVs and tuners is significant.

I meant the importance of "Prison Break" in the network's mind...not the affiliate.

My only contention is that FOX 8 as an O&O may have had a more difficult time making the decision to pre-empt "Prison Break", but probably would have made the move anyway.

Do you have any idea how much money the station makes off of selling local commercial time on a Browns game? :D Even when the team is not heading for the playoffs, the numbers for those games are through the roof.

My own personal thought is that FOX 8, under network ownership, would have passed on the game if it would have preempted "American Idol". As popular as it may be, "Prison Break" is no "Idol"...really, nothing on TV is, as far as ratings power.

I also allow that the new owners would potentially more aggressively go after the MNF Browns games. I just can't say, in my own head, that FOX would have instantly said no as an owner of WJW. My gut feeling is that WJW would still be in the bidding, but Local TV was probably more willing to compete against the other stations for the games than FOX would have been.

No way, it wouldn't happen. Having lived in Los Angeles where all the network stations are O&O (excluding CW and My13) I can tell you the networks never remove their programs for local events.

And it's not that Los Angeles has more local stations on VHF. They just don't do it. Period. That's where local non owned Network channels make changes. And that's why this happened.

WCBS in New York has carried Yankees games before.

- Trip

No way, it wouldn't happen. Having lived in Los Angeles where all the network stations are O&O (excluding CW and My13) I can tell you the networks never remove their programs for local events.

Cleveland is not Los Angeles.

And it's not that Los Angeles has more local stations on VHF. They just don't do it. Period. That's where local non owned Network channels make changes. And that's why this happened.

The situation is impossible to compare for one very good reason - Los Angeles has no NFL team, and hasn't had one in decades now.

And most of the time, even when the Rams and Raiders were there, they weren't popular enough to be compared to the Browns in Cleveland.

WCBS in New York has carried Yankees games before.

I'm pretty sure WCBS/2 is the pre-season flagship for the New York Giants.

I would also not be surprised to see that the station has carried Giants ESPN/NFL Network games, though I'd have to research that.

Cleveland is not Los Angeles.



The situation is impossible to compare for one very good reason - Los Angeles has no NFL team, and hasn't had one in decades now.

And most of the time, even when the Rams and Raiders were there, they weren't popular enough to be compared to the Browns in Cleveland.

Point one. You are wrong. Rams and Raiders left in 1995. That is not "decades."

Point two. Valid. Now show me at least one other time that FOX, when it was O&O ever preempted there regular programming for local sports.

Google is your friend. I'll be patient and wait.

I'm pretty sure WCBS/2 is the pre-season flagship for the New York Giants.

I would also not be surprised to see that the station has carried Giants ESPN/NFL Network games, though I'd have to research that.

"I'm pretty sure" and "I would not be surprised" doesn't prove anything. Get the info and show me, don't play guessing games. Because I'm "pretty sure" that you are wrong. And since you are the one making the statements I'll leave it to you to prove otherwise.

what's...

nevermind.

(Slowly walking backwards toward door)

http://www.prnwire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-05-2001/0001608838&EDATE=

There's a press release for WCBS in New York (#1 market, O&O) airing Yankees games.

And here's a post from 2006, before Local TV existed, noting that WJW will air a Browns game on December 7, 2006, a Thursday.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/12/much-ado-about-few-things.html

- Trip

OK, I'll take some points, and accede some to hookbill.

I stumbled onto a list of local carriers of ESPN/NFL Network games this year, on the same forum where that guy creates the user-drawn maps of NFL TV coverage on Sundays:

http://the506.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1220930356

If this user-created list is correct, the only two-now-former FOX O&Os carrying games in the 2008 season are WJW and KDVR in Denver, both now under Local TV's ownership. (WXIN in Indy is not an O&O, of course, ditto with KSWB in SD.)

WWOR/9 "My9", which I believe is co-owned with WNYW/5, the FOX O&O in NYC, carries a few games, but I don't see any other stations that are actually FOX O&Os here. The "My9" carriage is an easy choice for FOX, since they own both stations (and program both networks). In Cleveland, though "My 43" WUAB took the MLB NLCS the last time WJW carried a prime-time Browns game, it's not owned by the network.

In summary, from that list, it doesn't appear as though FOX makes a conscious effort to go after these rights in its O&O markets, at least in 2008, if they didn't make the deals for WJW and KDVR before the sale. (One note: Tribune has a wide-reaching deal to carry prime-time local NFL games in many markets. That would preclude FOX from doing so, in many markets where they own the affiliate.)

It does appear CBS does go after many of these games in their O&O markets, though Thursday night's Pittsburgh Steelers' game with the Cincinnati Bungles, er, Bengals was pushed to sister WPCW/19 "Pittsburgh's CW".

However, despite all the above, Trip's link proves that WJW did air at least one prime-time Browns game in 2006, while it was clearly an O&O. :)

I think my final point is that though FOX may have not run all these games, or actively win the rights to them on a regular basis for a (now former) O&O like WJW, that would prove they would have no problem picking one up if they could make money off of it.

The analogs have been looking worse to me as well. Glad you posted, as I had been thinking that it was just me being overly critical after getting used to the HD stations.:)

While marginally better when tuning via the cable box vs. the TV, IIRC it used to look a whole lot better. Also, the PQ variance between TVs and tuners is significant.

Well it sounds like you are noticing some minor picture degradation. My local analogs are simply not watchable at times. Multipath looking images, audio background noise, extremely grainy picture. The analogs beyond the locals seem to get progressively better the higher up the ch #'s, going from grainy but watchable to almost digital quality.

Then, couple hours later, all of the analogs are crystal clear........but for how long???? :confused:

http://www.prnwire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-05-2001/0001608838&EDATE=

There's a press release for WCBS in New York (#1 market, O&O) airing Yankees games.

I'll go along with this as being a notable exception. However we don't know what days they broadcast those games on.

In other words if they broadcast 20 games and they were all day games then that would not interfere with "prime time" broadcast. They may have done Sunday games, and also since this is baseball we are talking about nights when the network frequently runs re-runs. And back in the 90's and earlier there was not as much "new" programming as there is today, like Big Brother.

In this situation I would consider a network giving a nod for a Yankee broadcast, but during prime time in May I don't think so. And almost all opening games are day games.

And here's a post from 2006, before Local TV existed, noting that WJW will air a Browns game on December 7, 2006, a Thursday.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/12/much-ado-about-few-things.html

- Trip

Friday nights FOX really doesn't have a schedule. Usually they will throw in a movie or a rerun. Sorry, no credit for that one.:)

Wow, Melissa Mack has been at FOX for two years already? How time flies!

I'll go along with this as being a notable exception. However we don't know what days they broadcast those games on.

In other words if they broadcast 20 games and they were all day games then that would not interfere with "prime time" broadcast. They may have done Sunday games, and also since this is baseball we are talking about nights when the network frequently runs re-runs. And back in the 90's and earlier there was not as much "new" programming as there is today, like Big Brother.

This was 2002-2004. I cannot locate a schedule of which 20 games they picked up at this time.

Friday nights FOX really doesn't have a schedule. Usually they will throw in a movie or a rerun. Sorry, no credit for that one.:)

Did you miss where I said December 7, 2006 was a Thursday? While I don't know the schedule of that particular Thursday, this is the day of the week that "The OC" would air, and as I recall that show was rather popular.

- Trip

This was 2002-2004. I cannot locate a schedule of which 20 games they picked up at this time.



Did you miss where I said December 7, 2006 was a Thursday? While I don't know the schedule of that particular Thursday, this is the day of the week that "The OC" would air, and as I recall that show was rather popular.

- Trip

I've already commented on your first point, I know you can't find the dates. My point is unless it interfered with prime time schedule it wouldn't matter. Since baseball is primarily played after the May sweeps we don't know when those 20 games were scheduled so it really doesn't dispute my theory. Now if they showed Yankee games on a Saturday or Sunday then you would have a valid point. But we just don't know.

On your second comment I went and looked up the date and I thought it was Friday, you were correct it was on a Thursday. But again look at the date. Usually after November sweeps networks will go to reruns or other things and as far as The OC goes, it seemed to have a loud voice of supporters but the ratings were never that great. I could see FOX allowing The Browns on local television at that time.

My main point is this: In a area where the shows are new and in prime time like with Prison Break and Terminator and the station is O&O this situation wouldn't have happened.

My main point is this: In a area where the shows are new and in prime time like with Prison Break and Terminator and the station is O&O this situation wouldn't have happened.

Wasn't your original point that a network O&O would *not* pre-empt its shows for a Monday/Thursday night NFL game? :D

Ah, well. We're at a stalemate. You win!

I noticed recently that WTRF in Wheeling/Steubenville broadcasts CBS programming on digital 32-1, FOX on 32-2 and ABC on 32-3. Talk about a monopoly. It got me to thinking, however, as to why OTA stations don't use their sub-channels to broadcast other interesting networks rather than useless weather and promo channels. Why couldn't FOX-8 for instance arrange to broadcast the Fox News Network on 8-2 or WEWS broadcast ESPN on 5-2 (both are affiliated with Disney and ABC) ? I suppose the economics might not be there for the cable networks but it sure could raise the advertising revenues for the local stations (not to mention OTA antenna sales).

Anyone out there have any thoughts on this ?

Yes. Not enough bandwidth.
JJK

I noticed recently that WTRF in Wheeling/Steubenville broadcasts CBS programming on digital 32-1, FOX on 32-2 and ABC on 32-3. Talk about a monopoly. It got me to thinking, however, as to why OTA stations don't use their sub-channels to broadcast other interesting networks rather than useless weather and promo channels. Why couldn't FOX-8 for instance arrange to broadcast the Fox News Network on 8-2 or WEWS broadcast ESPN on 5-2 (both are affiliated with Disney and ABC) ? I suppose the economics might not be there for the cable networks but it sure could raise the advertising revenues for the local stations (not to mention OTA antenna sales).

Anyone out there have any thoughts on this ?

For one....it usually significantly lowers the picture quality of HD on the primary channel when too much other "stuff" is added on subchannels. I personally would like to see all subchannel usage banned on stations that carry HD programming or at least at the same time as HD is being broadcast.

Why couldn't FOX-8 for instance arrange to broadcast the Fox News Network on 8-2 or WEWS broadcast ESPN on 5-2 (both are affiliated with Disney and ABC) ? I suppose the economics might not be there for the cable networks but it sure could raise the advertising revenues for the local stations (not to mention OTA antenna sales).

Anyone out there have any thoughts on this ?

Won't happen. Cable channels receive a fee per subscriber to cable services, and making them available over the air would lead to a decrease or loss in such fees.

Ad revenue from the extra viewers would definitely not make up that difference. Especially not in this economy, but also not in a strong economy.

I calculated it for Fox News in another thread; Fox News supposedly gets 75 cents per subscriber--if I did the math right, that's roughly $62 million. I don't know if that 75 cents is monthly or not, as I'm not too familiar with it, but either way it's a pretty penny.

(3,000th post :D)

- Trip

I went to check disk space on my TiVo HD this evening. I couldn't connect, so I went upstairs and sure enough it had crashed.:eek:

I rebooted doing it the proper way, start eSata first wait about 20 seconds then start TiVo. It failed giving me an error message.

I tried again and apparently this was all because of an upgrade I got last night. It worked this time and besides being able to stream from Netflix apparently I can now order a pizza from Dominoes from my TiVo.

There is a whole bunch more, and I know most of you guys arn't interested but for the few that do have TiVo's it went from 9.4 to 11.0.P3, which means All kinds of new stuff to stream and free downloads.

Pretty cool, but a little scary with the reboot. I think this is basically a handshaking issue my DVI and TV seem to have, but I'm past that now so it should work fine.

I have Cox standard analog cable, will I have to upgrade to digital cable in Feb. or can I continue with analog?

Eventually will be going to hdtv (just bought a projector). Can I purchase a digital cable box or boxes instead of renting them monthly from Cox Cable?

I went to check disk space on my TiVo HD this evening. I couldn't connect, so I went upstairs and sure enough it had crashed.:eek:

I rebooted doing it the proper way, start eSata first wait about 20 seconds then start TiVo. It failed giving me an error message.

I tried again and apparently this was all because of an upgrade I got last night. It worked this time and besides being able to stream from Netflix apparently I can now order a pizza from Dominoes from my TiVo.

There is a whole bunch more, and I know most of you guys arn't interested but for the few that do have TiVo's it went from 9.4 to 11.0.P3, which means All kinds of new stuff to stream and free downloads.

Pretty cool, but a little scary with the reboot. I think this is basically a handshaking issue my DVI and TV seem to have, but I'm past that now so it should work fine.

What was that? Did I just hear that Tivo crashed? :confused::confused::confused: :) And rebooted? :confused: Sounds like Tivo is taking a lesson from Navigator!! :rolleyes:;):p:p:p

I have Cox standard analog cable, will I have to upgrade to digital cable in Feb. or can I continue with analog?

Eventually will be going to hdtv (just bought a projector). Can I purchase a digital cable box or boxes instead of renting them monthly from Cox Cable?

You'd have to check with the company to make sure, but cable and satellite companies will still be sending their signals to viewers the same way after 2/17/09. Since analog cable is not over-the-air TV, it can still exist. Although if you do get an HDTV, it is definitely worth it to get a digital/HDTV cable box. HD programming looks much better than regular programming plus your provider might even send all the standard channels in digital, like TWC does. The SD digital channels look worlds better than regular analog(in most cases).

You'd have to check with the company to make sure, but cable and satellite companies will still be sending their signals to viewers the same way after 2/17/09. Since analog cable is not over-the-air TV, it can still exist. Although if you do get an HDTV, it is definitely worth it to get a digital/HDTV cable box. HD programming looks much better than regular programming plus your provider might even send all the standard channels in digital, like TWC does. The SD digital channels look worlds better than regular analog(in most cases).

No question it looks much better. I pick up a few OTA channels on a tv card in my pc right now and it's great. It's just that I have 5 televisions and to upgrade to digital tv and then have to get the hdtv boxes is a big increase in price. Analog basic cable is bad enough.:(

What was that? Did I just hear that Tivo crashed? :confused::confused::confused: :) And rebooted? :confused: Sounds like Tivo is taking a lesson from Navigator!! :rolleyes:;):p:p:p

Well, yeah but I can order pizza now! Try doing that with navigator!:p

No seriously there are some huge updates on this version. But I am seeing other people having problems with the upgrade. One person says it wiped out his library, but I'll bet he has an eSATA and didn't go about doing a proper reboot.

TiVo is generally pretty bulletproof when it comes to software and crashes. My old S2 has only taken a dump once, I think, but it quickly recovered with a reboot. And I've had the thing for years!

I think hookbill's (and similar) problems are related to the eSATA external drives, if anything. Just a guess.

I got my S2 software update, and though us non-HD TiVo types can't do the Netflix streaming or other new stuff (YouTube on TiVo, etc.), we CAN order pizza. Or, what passes for it (Dominos). ;)

I have Cox standard analog cable, will I have to upgrade to digital cable in Feb. or can I continue with analog?


Just to knock down this off the top - the February "digital TV transition" does not affect cable TV, or satellite TV. It only affects over-the-air TV you pick up with an antenna or rabbit ears (3/5/8/19/etc.).

At least one cable system is taking advantage of the awareness of the date to dump all analog cable. Massillon Cable and Clear Picture down in Wooster (both owned by the same company).

They're going to basically give low-end digital boxes to their analog subscribers. They are only doing that so they can clear out the analog bandwidth to offer more HD and other services. It is not connected with the 2/17/09 date that local over-air stations have to shut off their analog signals.

Cox, Time Warner, WOW, Comcast and other major companies are generally going to keep offering analog cable for now. Even the local over-air digital only stations will be downconverted at the cable end for analog subscribers.

Well, yeah but I can order pizza now! Try doing that with navigator!:p



I can order pizza too!! It's called a phone!! :p:p:p:p:p

Seriously, I cannot stand this kind of technology. Jay Leno even made a "how fat are we getting" joke about this last week. This stuff is ridiculous. I saw a TWC commercial where their phone service puts who's calling on your TV screen when the phone rings. And I saw another one from AT&T's Advanced TV where you can view your computer on TV. I swear we are getting very close to having the creepy computer controlled houses of science fiction. Beware!! Tivo's out to get you!!

No question it looks much better. I pick up a few OTA channels on a tv card in my pc right now and it's great. It's just that I have 5 televisions and to upgrade to digital tv and then have to get the hdtv boxes is a big increase in price. Analog basic cable is bad enough.:(

The regular TV's don't matter so much, but you definitely need a box for any TV that is HD. Analog picture is unwatchable on a high resolution TV.

No seriously there are some huge updates on this version. But I am seeing other people having problems with the upgrade. One person says it wiped out his library, but I'll bet he has an eSATA and didn't go about doing a proper reboot.

Crap - sure hope this update doesn't cause any problems for me. I've been out of town the last two weeks, and have a boatload of recorded shows to catch up on...

I can order pizza too!! It's called a phone!! :p:p:p:p:p


Reminds me of Scotty in Star Trek IV - "Keyboard. How quaint."

Crap - sure hope this update doesn't cause any problems for me. I've been out of town the last two weeks, and have a boatload of recorded shows to catch up on...

Your chances of getting this update are slim. They will pull the big switch at another date. I haven't looked this morning but my S3 didn't have it yesterday.

is anyone able to get those 2 channels by using your QAM on your HD TV..

I get the other cleveland HD Channels but those 2 I lost about 2 weeks ago..just curious if anyone is getting them or did they move them to another channel location

thanks

TiVo is generally pretty bulletproof when it comes to software and crashes. My old S2 has only taken a dump once, I think, but it quickly recovered with a reboot. And I've had the thing for years!

I think hookbill's (and similar) problems are related to the eSATA external drives, if anything. Just a guess.

I got my S2 software update, and though us non-HD TiVo types can't do the Netflix streaming or other new stuff (YouTube on TiVo, etc.), we CAN order pizza. Or, what passes for it (Dominos). ;)

If you take a trip to the TCF and read some of the post over in the S3 thread, which includes the TiVo HD you would get the impression that TiVo does nothing but cause problems. One guy said it made his big toe ache.:D

Seriously there are so many morons over there it isn't even funny and I'm glad I don't post over there anymore. One person started a thread about the last update causing his Tivo to "copy protect everything he downloads." The idiot had no idea that cable companies do that, not TiVo.

I'm glad you can order your "so called" pizza (I agree).

nickdawg the pizza thing is just another way of integrating technology. Personally I'm kind of with you on this, but I do like to order food off the internet.

Does anyone remember the movie with Jodi Foster being a computer geek and she ordered a pizza on her computer? It was during the 90's, don't remember the name but I thought "what a cool idea!" and for the past few years now many restaurants have that.

But don't worry nickdawg, with that navigator technology being what it is it will probably never invade your house.;)

I'm glad you can order your "so called" pizza (I agree).

nickdawg the pizza thing is just another way of integrating technology. Personally I'm kind of with you on this, but I do like to order food off the internet.


The key to this new TiVo/Domino's thing is not ordering (so-called) pizza on the TiVo per se. You have to go into menu options to do it, and that's rather silly when you consider that you can just hit the laptop or desktop (or call! :D). (I like Internet ordering, because I get to see everything I put in is correct, and I don't have to talk to some high school kid on the phone.)

The key to this new partnership is that Domino's will have a direct hook to ordering during their TV commercials. The little "Press Thumbs Up" icon will show up on your TiVo during any Domino's commercial, and that'll let you order automatically.

Of course, TiVo owners are very adept at avoiding commercials, so we'll see how that works out for them.

:D

I saw a TWC commercial where their phone service puts who's calling on your TV screen when the phone rings.
No big deal, my Dish Network receivers (both standard and DVR) has been doing that since at least 1999. Since youhave to keep a phone line connected to a satellite receiver it ws a no-brainer to add a caller ID app to the software.

The key to this new TiVo/Domino's thing is not ordering (so-called) pizza on the TiVo per se. You have to go into menu options to do it, and that's rather silly when you consider that you can just hit the laptop or desktop (or call! :D). (I like Internet ordering, because I get to see everything I put in is correct, and I don't have to talk to some high school kid on the phone.).......

Although I'd sooner eat yellow snow than Dominos, I like the idea. It's another small step forward with two way integration. Not everyone is going to have a PC fired up all the time so this could be handy. Also, I'm guessing, this new service would include current pricing and selections that may not be on the 2 year old paper menu I have (somewhere) in my kitchen drawer. :D

Like you I avoid unintelligent human contact whenever possible! Pay at the pump is my favorite invention of all time! We have a local pizza place, carry out only, good pizza, idiot employees. Every single time we call there to place an order the person who answered the phone *ALWAYS* has to say: "hold on, let me get a pen". Now wouldn't you presume, answering the phone at a carry out pizza place, that it is more than likely the person calling *may* want to order a pizza? Therefore requiring a pen when the phone is answered??? :p:p:p

No big deal, my Dish Network receivers (both standard and DVR) has been doing that since at least 1999. Since youhave to keep a phone line connected to a satellite receiver it ws a no-brainer to add a caller ID app to the software.

Yeah, I think on screen Caller ID is pretty standard with VOIP service.
It's been part of my WOW cable bundle for years.

Like you I avoid unintelligent human contact whenever possible! Pay at the pump is my favorite invention of all time!


Me, too.

Online ordering also means I order more often, avoiding that phone contact. I also don't have to spell out my address - it's already saved in the system.

And I might even get something from Domino's just to have fun with this new system! :D Then, of course, I'll be reminded of the fact that Domino's food is basically marginally edible, and never do it again.

As far as caller ID goes - I know Time Warner offers it with their own bundled Digital Phone. I have Vonage, so I do without TV caller ID. And I use my cell phone more, anyway. My father presumably has TV caller ID with his DirecTV boxes, but he also uses his cell phone more often.

A long time ago, we would go to the Pizza Hut at Springfield Lake (SE of Akron) for lunch. When we walked in our beverages and meals would be on the table. The waitress (Susie B. Good) saw us in the parking lot and knew what we always ordered.

Hey, I am over in Willoughby, and my channels are having a "wave" effect. Like I am currently watching the OSU/Michigan game, and I have these 2" tinted red lines rolling every 2" from the bottom of my tv to the top.

At first I thought it might be the tv, but my ps3 doesn't do it to my tv, and not all my dvr'd show seem to do it either.

I noticed it the other day on certain channels, but now it looks like most channels are doing it (haven't found one yet that doesn't cause it).

Is anyone else having any issues with their channels?

Edit: I have TWC (sadly), and run everything through a onkyo tx-sr606.

Edit #2: There is also a terribly annoying like audible sound coming out of my speakers when watching cable.

I have these 2" tinted red lines rolling every 2" from the bottom of my tv to the top.

Hummmm??

Hummmm??

Imagine like every 2" vertically there is a 2" segment that extends from one edge of the screen to the other. This 2" by 36" segment "rolls" from the bottom of the screen to the top. It is as if that area is being covered by the red lens of a pair of 3-D glasses (though not quite that intensely red).

Imagine like every 2" vertically there is a 2" segment that extends from one edge of the screen to the other. This 2" by 36" segment "rolls" from the bottom of the screen to the top. It is as if that area is being covered by the red lens of a pair of 3-D glasses (though not quite that intensely red).

This sounds like one of two things:

1) Hum bars. Try lifting the ground on the TV set with a ground adaptor plug and see if it goes away. If it does, you've got a ground loop somewhere.

2) Low line voltage. If the AC line drops below ~100v, it can cause electronic devices to dip below their regulation threshold, causing the peaks of the ac waveform to show up in the picture. This is easily confirmed with a vom.

This sounds like one of two things:

1) Hum bars. Try lifting the ground on the TV set with a ground adaptor plug and see if it goes away. If it does, you've got a ground loop somewhere.

2) Low line voltage. If the AC line drops below ~100v, it can cause electronic devices to dip below their regulation threshold, causing the peaks of the ac waveform to show up in the picture. This is easily confirmed with a vom.

Ok, but like I said I only get the lines while watching cable, and wouldn't in both those above instances be issues with the TV?

Because, I have no issues playing 360 or ps3. And like I said, some dvr'd shows don't have the bars. That's why I didn't know if it was unique to my current cable experience, or if other people in the area saw the same thing.

Ok, but like I said I only get the lines while watching cable, and wouldn't in both those above instances be issues with the TV?

Because, I have no issues playing 360 or ps3. And like I said, some dvr'd shows don't have the bars. That's why I didn't know if it was unique to my current cable experience, or if other people in the area saw the same thing.

Sounds like bad cable box or bad cable signal.
Ray

Sounds like bad cable box or bad cable signal.
Ray

Yea, well I am moving next sunday, so it really isn't worth getting worked up about. Just didn't know if I was alone or not. Seems it is currently gone.

A long time ago, we would go to the Pizza Hut at Springfield Lake (SE of Akron) for lunch. When we walked in our beverages and meals would be on the table. The waitress (Susie B. Good) saw us in the parking lot and knew what we always ordered.

I have the same relationship with a local pizza/chicken place, where I always order the same (4 pieces of fried chicken, two breasts, two legs and jojos).

Though I do have to wait for them to cook it.

:D

Is anyone over here getting the new WNEO-DT during the day/night today? The signal that was hitting my converter box went away this afternoon...

Is anyone over here getting the new WNEO-DT during the day/night today? The signal that was hitting my converter box went away this afternoon...

They've been posting extended messages constantly on the channels over the past week or so to warn that they will be working on it. I don't remember the details, but that is probably what it is. Might be down for a few days.

They've been posting extended messages constantly on the channels over the past week or so to warn that they will be working on it. I don't remember the details, but that is probably what it is. Might be down for a few days.

Oh, I know they've been working on it. They had the new signal up Thursday night, and off and on again Friday - someone here said they were at 1/4 power. I was wondering if they finally had it back up for good.

pjb16:
You have a power supply problem with either the tv or another unit causing a huge ground loop. Isolate the plugs (no ground) of everything you have plugged in one at a time.
The isolation will elimnate most of the problem but the unit causing the problem will eventually fail.
JJK

The regular TV's don't matter so much, but you definitely need a box for any TV that is HD. Analog picture is unwatchable on a high resolution TV.

Lets see, 2 hdtv's, 1 hd projector, and 1 pc with tv card. Cox will probably get me for about $5 per box and about another $10 for the upgrade to digital cable, thats $30 more per month on top of an already inflated cost. I better sell a lot more security systems next year!!

Ok, but like I said I only get the lines while watching cable, and wouldn't in both those above instances be issues with the TV?

I've seen instances where the cable drop had some AC on it referenced to ground... using a balun type device would isolate the grounds... best to get Larry the cable guy out to fix it...

"divide and conquer"

I apologize if this has been posted already. I usually just skim through here, and I admit I could have missed it. But I got a kick out of this video. (http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3055145550053317998SLGqzb)

It's humorous, but unfortunately, there's a lot of truth behind it.

Ok, but like I said I only get the lines while watching cable, and wouldn't in both those above instances be issues with the TV?

Because, I have no issues playing 360 or ps3. And like I said, some dvr'd shows don't have the bars. That's why I didn't know if it was unique to my current cable experience, or if other people in the area saw the same thing.

Check the cable grounding block at the entrance to the home. Did the ground wire loosen up?

I apologize if this has been posted already. I usually just skim through here, and I admit I could have missed it. But I got a kick out of this video. (http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3055145550053317998SLGqzb)

It's humorous, but unfortunately, there's a lot of truth behind it.

I like when she puts the remote control in the microwave!

http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/99c33f1e38b00d8153c0c75f55cbf7acd0a22055/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/c5297670-9b3e-012b-54e4-f2564a5a5424/oldtv_large.jpg

Check the cable grounding block at the entrance to the home. Did the ground wire loosen up?

It is possible. I am in an apartment, and it could have been loosened from the weather or someone just being back there or what have you.

Way back when it was announced the Internet was being opened up for commercial purposes, my (now) business partner and I were in his living room discussing the change. One of us said something like "yea, next thing you'll see is pizzahut.com".

We're still kicking ourselves over this......

(Now that I think of it, damn, was that a long time ago.)

Way back when it was announced the Internet was being opened up for commercial purposes, my (now) business partner and I were in his living room discussing the change. One of us said something like "yea, next thing you'll see is pizzahut.com".

We're still kicking ourselves over this......

(Now that I think of it, damn, was that a long time ago.)

Around 1992 I was thinking that people who bought cell phones were crazy. And some people were even buying a computer for their home! Now that had to be insane, I mean I work with a computer all day long why in the world would I ever want one at home?

In 1995 my girlfriend got a cell phone. I had no need for one but hey, she got one and I got a great deal working for the County of Los Angeles. 25.00 and 5 free minutes!:rolleyes: A little while later she bought a Mac and another buddy of mine was having so much fun with his it started to peak my interest. So I bought one too.

At that time I had no idea what amazing things were going to come out of this. A few years back I worked at Hughes Aircraft, which was bought out by General Motors and we began to hear abouit this crazy idea of putting these smaller satellite dishes on peoples houses. That of course was the beginning of Direct TV, but at the time it just sounded strange. After all we had cable.

We were told at the time it was meant for people who lived in rural areas where there was no cable.

When I look back over my life, yes, I've seen a great deal of change. But the funny part about it is nothing really changed the way I thought it would let's say around 1970. Heck we just got to the moon and I was sure by 2000 we'd be George Jettson flying around. Public phones would all be picture phones and people would have them in their houses. CD's?? DVD's?? never a thought. This rather odd thing called a microwave began to come around in the early 80's but you had to shell out some bucks for one of those.

Now that was a bit of what i was thinking, instant meals and such. But what's happened over the last 20 years is truly remarkable, but in some ways so wastefull. When we had that gas crisis in the 70's I was certain that the internal combustion engine would be replaced. I mean .50 a gallon, come on!

And everyone drove economy cars, then Reagan came, the wall came down something I never thought would happen and on top of that the Soviet Union went away. The second most powerful nation in the world!

But we stopped going to the moon. We forgot about the gas. We were preaching green back then and look, it's happening again.

I wonder in another 30 years if we will forget again and still be driving cars with gas and go back to the way we were before. We should have done something about this a long time ago.

But we do have the internet, High Definition Television with Dolby 5.1! And yes you can order a pizza from your television.:D;)

......And everyone drove economy cars, then Reagan came, the wall came down something I never thought would happen and on top of that the Soviet Union went away. The second most powerful nation in the world!........


I'll forgo the flying cars for 100% digital cable. :cool:

As for the Soviets, unfortunately, the Bear only went into hibernation and is waking. I think over the next few years the Bear's claws are going to recapture some of it's lost eastern real estate, it's going to get very ugly.

I searched the FCC database and noticed a couple Cleveland channels that are expanding their coverage area beyond their current LP analog signal. These are WCDN-LP which is a Daystar affiliate planning on using digital channel 7. WXOX-LP (HSN) is listed as using digital channel 44. Check out their contour maps. Akron is included...

WXOX... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1235639.html
WCDN... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1182451.html

When WVPX eventually gets their act together, I'm assuming they will have 4 of the typical sub-channels. I don't know why they haven't just decided to ditch the analog already.

23.1 WVPX (ION)
23.2 WVPX (QUBO)
23.3 WVPX (ION LIFE)
23.4 WVPX (WORSHIP)

Has anyone heard anything new about the WVIZ-DT problem? It would be nice to receive their signal OTA in Akron.

Has anyone heard anything new about the WVIZ-DT problem? It would be nice to receive their signal OTA in Akron.

The "problem" is as it has been...WVIZ-DT is not yet operating from a new tower at WKYC, which will hold both WKYC-DT and WVIZ-DT antennas.

Supposedly, they're hoping to start testing it sometime in the next month. Check the FCC filings under the transition reports for WVIZ.

Right now, they're on their second temporary antenna, 10KW off of an auxiliary tower at WKYC's site.

But we do have the internet, High Definition Television with Dolby 5.1! And yes you can order a pizza from your television.:D;)

I'll trade the HDTV for a car that runs on NO gas!!! Gas prices aren't going to stay down forever. ;)

Lately I've had problems recording shows late at night. I usually try to record the "Married With Children" episodes on TBS, channel 202, in the early morning hours(5, 6 AM). Many times I've found that my show did not record. Instead I get an odd message in the Recording Log section of the DVR menu saying "The settop was unable to record this program". It's very strange and I wonder if it has anything to do with SDV. Are they working on the channels at night and things are getting messed up? I know the box didn't reboot then because it is outputting PCM audio since an EAS test last week(and DD audio is restored after a reboot).

I'm watching George Lopez on WBNX SD channel and it is apparent that this supposedly "SD digital" channel is NOT digital. There is fuzz and lines in the picture and it is a bit jumpy(and the 'digitized' picture blurs and blocks when the fuzz happens.

C'mon cable!! Time to follow the lead of satellite, who is already starting to center cut the HD channels for the SD feed. TWC, give your customers better picture quality!!

Lately I've had problems recording shows late at night. I usually try to record the "Married With Children" episodes on TBS, channel 202, in the early morning hours(5, 6 AM). Many times I've found that my show did not record. Instead I get an odd message in the Recording Log section of the DVR menu saying "The settop was unable to record this program". It's very strange and I wonder if it has anything to do with SDV. Are they working on the channels at night and things are getting messed up? I know the box didn't reboot then because it is outputting PCM audio since an EAS test last week(and DD audio is restored after a reboot).

That kind of stuff happened to me all the time with my SA 8300.

Instead I get an odd message in the Recording Log section of the DVR menu saying "The settop was unable to record this program". It's very strange and I wonder if it has anything to do with SDV.

That message was probably the number one reason I got a Tivo. The infuriating bit was that recordings failed even if I was watching the show live, which contradicts with what the TW tech told me - "that message will appear if an available tuner can't locate the right signal". Appears that when a recording kicks off, one job handles tuning in the signal, and another job does the actual recording. A little birdie told me that the recording job waits a certain amount of time to allow the tuning job to finish. If it times out, the recording is aborted and the message is logged.

Very well could be related to SDV, but I was getting this over a year ago on broadcast channels. (Distinctly remember Heroes not recording one night.)

That message was probably the number one reason I got a Tivo. The infuriating bit was that recordings failed even if I was watching the show live, which contradicts with what the TW tech told me - "that message will appear if an available tuner can't locate the right signal". Appears that when a recording kicks off, one job handles tuning in the signal, and another job does the actual recording. A little birdie told me that the recording job waits a certain amount of time to allow the tuning job to finish. If it times out, the recording is aborted and the message is logged.

Very well could be related to SDV, but I was getting this over a year ago on broadcast channels. (Distinctly remember Heroes not recording one night.)


Me too. Even though it was an inferior machine and was difficult to set up programming I would have tolerated it if it would just record like it was suppose to.

nickdawg the more I think about it I doubt SDV testing would be the cause. If they were testing SDV wouldn't they make it available to those machines that are SDV capable? It doesn't make sense.

I think you may be experiencing for the first time just how ticky tacky SA software is, and perhaps the Passport software was their best. Good luck with that thing, and with the economy being in bad shape you can always start looking for a TiVo HD on e-Bay.:)

Lately I've had problems recording shows late at night. I usually try to record the "Married With Children" episodes on TBS, channel 202, in the early morning hours(5, 6 AM). Many times I've found that my show did not record. Instead I get an odd message in the Recording Log section of the DVR menu saying "The settop was unable to record this program". It's very strange and I wonder if it has anything to do with SDV. Are they working on the channels at night and things are getting messed up? I know the box didn't reboot then because it is outputting PCM audio since an EAS test last week(and DD audio is restored after a reboot).

nickdawg, I'm not sure what type DVR you have but with my Dish 722 there is a general system setting for when to check for updates and download the latest 9 day program guide. I believe it defaults to 3 or 4 am. I have not run into any issues with my few late night/early morning recordings but you may want to check.
You would think that the update would have a lower priority to a scheduled recording but you never know.

nickdawg, I'm not sure what type DVR you have but with my Dish 722 there is a general system setting for when to check for updates and download the latest 9 day program guide. I believe it defaults to 3 or 4 am. I have not run into any issues with my few late night/early morning recordings but you may want to check.
You would think that the update would have a lower priority to a scheduled recording but you never know.

TW usually does this late night/early morning. It could be an update, check your Diagnostic screen, nickdawg.

Hehe - ran into another SA recording "oops" tonight..

My SA8300 complained in the logs that "this program can not be recorded due to an unresolved conflict". There were three shows scheduled - one from 8-9, one from 8-10, and one from 9-10 that was replayed 10-11. Instead of just rescheduling the 9-10 show to 10-11, the box happily decided not to record *any* of the shows.

Fortunately, the Tivo was smart enough to figure out things and record the shows as desired, keeping my wife happy.

Hehe - ran into another SA recording "oops" tonight..

My SA8300 complained in the logs that "this program can not be recorded due to an unresolved conflict". There were three shows scheduled - one from 8-9, one from 8-10, and one from 9-10 that was replayed 10-11. Instead of just rescheduling the 9-10 show to 10-11, the box happily decided not to record *any* of the shows.

Fortunately, the Tivo was smart enough to figure out things and record the shows as desired, keeping my wife happy.

:):):)----nuff said

Hehe - ran into another SA recording "oops" tonight..


I had that happen on my SA8000, and I saw it actually happening. It *really* doesn't like three shows scheduled at around the same time, and is not smart enough to pick up an alternate airing.

I had that happen on my SA8000, and I saw it actually happening. It *really* doesn't like three shows scheduled at around the same time, and is not smart enough to pick up an alternate airing.

Yes, that's what happens if a show gets moved to a different time slot. SA 8300, at least with SARA has no preference capabilities and since 3 shows are there it just doesn't record anything.

I swear, stupidity is fast-spreading virus in Cleveland TV these days. Today as I was flipping through the channels I saw a HIDEOUS sight on WVIZ analog, what appears to be some bastardized letterbox picture. I noticed that WVIZ DT has flipped the switch to a simulcast SD channel(like WNEO). Except instead of taking the CORRECT approach and center cutting for SD downconversion, they are sending down a letterbox cartoon in what looks like a double-letterbox format(the horizontal bars from the show + horizontal bars to bastardize it to fit 4:3 AND skinny bars on the sides<left over from the 4:3 image on the HD channel>).

And yes, this is WVIZ doing this. I checked the OTA analog version and it looks the same as it does on TWC, thankfully. I can only hope TWC has more sense in downconverting and will send down 4:3 center cut versions once they begin downconverting for the SD channel in house(like satellite).

And then I looked at WNEO-DT. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Now, instead of horizontal stretching SD programming, it appears they are "trying"(and I use that word loosely) to "blow up" the windowboxed picture to fit the screen. Except their attempt is an epic FAIL!!! Now there are skinny black bars around the edge of the screen and the picture looks like crap. That's what happens when you attempt to "expand" windowboxed material to fit 16:9, the PQ gets significantly worse.

I used to try that with channels like USA and F/X that show letterboxed content. I ended up finding it better to just watch it with bars on all four sides.

Now, my plea to ANY PBS donors here: DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO EITHER OF THESE STATIONS UNTIL THEY LEARN HOW TO PROPERLY BROADCAST HDTV!!

EDIT:

I guess that SD/HD simulcast was some kind of a dress rehearsal. Now DT is back to the normal national HD feed. The SD channel is showing normal 4:3 picture again. Only odd thing is it looks like the blanking lines are on the left side of the screen(rather than on top). I can't see it on the OTA TV(due to overscan) but on cable with sidebars from the box, it is obvious.

Well well... I kind of like your agrument (Nick) to a certain extent, but since WNEO/WVIZ, etc etc are going digital or have already switched to digital, if you dislike how broadcasters are sending their programs down, I guess you can switch between xx.1 (so called HD channel) and xx.2 (SD channel).

I mean, if you like to watch programs with horizontally challenged screen size (People with BIG long faces/body...ewwww), then I guess you can stick to xx.1, which is the so-called HD or you can just use the remote and switch it to xx.2 which is 4:3. Isn't that easy? I don't know abou you, but I would prefer to watch zoomed people rather than long faces/body.

So since there are so many types of televisions and formats around, which should broadcasters use, according to your professional comments... stretch it, zoom it, pictured it, or ...? I am no biggie or expert, but I only have a 4:3 TV set at my house, so I can't complain too much.

good day :)

I hate "stretchovision".(stretching a 4 x 3 aspect to 16 x 9)
I hate "zoomovision" (Zooming in on a 2.35 x 1 aspect making it 16 x 9.)
I hate "shrinkovision" (shrinking a 4 x 3 aspect to skinny people)
I hate "aspectovision" (showing a 544 x 480 aspect tall and skinny)
I hate "inbetweenovision" (commercials cut midway between 4 x 3 and 16 x 9 on purpose which show incorrectly no matter what you have selected. This was to reduce the aspect distortion approximately in half regardless of what your set was set for to apease idiots who want to view full screen because they paid for full screen)
JJK

Don't you mean "FOOL screen"?:D

Now, my plea to ANY PBS donors here: DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO EITHER OF THESE STATIONS UNTIL THEY LEARN HOW TO PROPERLY BROADCAST HDTV!!

Now, now. As much as I hate to interrupt a good rant, relax. Have you tried asking either WVIZ or 45/49 about this?

The latter even has a toll-free number and E-Mail address for its "DTV Help Desk".

http://westernreservepublicmedia.org/dtv4pbs/index.htm

It won't cost you a dime, and will take less time to E-Mail than it takes to rant here.

Now, now. As much as I hate to interrupt a good rant, relax. Have you tried asking either WVIZ or 45/49 about this?

The latter even has a toll-free number and E-Mail address for its "DTV Help Desk".

http://westernreservepublicmedia.org/dtv4pbs/index.htm

It won't cost you a dime, and will take less time to E-Mail than it takes to rant here.

Hey, it's Thanksgiving. A time for ranting and raving.

nickdawg lives in the bizzarro world.:D

For the last couple of days TiVo is telling me that FOX SPORTS OHIO HD has been found. I looked there a coupled of days ago and there it was, FOX SPORTS OHIO HD. Nice blue screen with the words FOX SPORTS OHIO on it.:rolleyes:

I hate "stretchovision".(stretching a 4 x 3 aspect to 16 x 9)
I hate "zoomovision" (Zooming in on a 2.35 x 1 aspect making it 16 x 9.)
I hate "shrinkovision" (shrinking a 4 x 3 aspect to skinny people)
I hate "aspectovision" (showing a 544 x 480 aspect tall and skinny)
I hate "inbetweenovision" (commercials cut midway between 4 x 3 and 16 x 9 on purpose which show incorrectly no matter what you have selected. This was to reduce the aspect distortion approximately in half regardless of what your set was set for to apease idiots who want to view full screen because they paid for full screen)
JJK

There is one NTSC format.

There are eighteen different ATSC formats.

This is going to take awhile to sort out. ;)

For the last couple of days TiVo is telling me that FOX SPORTS OHIO HD has been found. I looked there a coupled of days ago and there it was, FOX SPORTS OHIO HD. Nice blue screen with the words FOX SPORTS OHIO on it.:rolleyes:

TWC is telling me I have TWO channels of FSN Ohio. Two in SD and two in HD. I guess one must be an overflow channel if two events are on. And the one SD channel(310) USED to show a pristine, clear digital simulcast of 309(awful analog upconvert) until TWC decided to kill 310.

And I'm still waiting on that promise of 24/7 programming on FSN HD. I'd really like to see more HD events or at least a SD upconversion of the main channel, that has decent picture. I've had to suffer through another season of some Zips games looking like crap on that awful digitized analog channel.

Hey, it's Thanksgiving. A time for ranting and raving.

nickdawg lives in the bizzarro world.:D

Look, I understand a little of his rant. We're not used to receptive local TV stations when it comes to technical issues like that.

But the good folks at 45/49 have always been receptive to input. Heck, even their now-former station manager used to post from time to time RIGHT HERE on AVS Forum!

Not only do they have that DTV Help Desk (one would think, the perfect place for nickdawg to get his question answered), they have been out there tripping all over themselves getting the word out from libraries to newspapers to local blogs.