I'm a bit apprehensive about feedback because I've been ignored before(by a certain CBS TV station, ahem). And I've also had useful feedback. I've contacted WKYC about the HD syndication earlier in the season and got a timely, friendly response.

Too many times it seems the people running the stations either don't know, or care, about what they are doing. TBS is the least helpful. There was an email thing going on earlier in the year about their ads and stretching, TBS seemed to send a stock response.

For the last couple of days TiVo is telling me that FOX SPORTS OHIO HD has been found. I looked there a coupled of days ago and there it was, FOX SPORTS OHIO HD. Nice blue screen with the words FOX SPORTS OHIO on it.:rolleyes:

ONLY time you get a picture is when the Cavs are playing and the game is in HD..other then that..you get the wonderfull blue screen

ONLY time you get a picture is when the Cavs are playing and the game is in HD..other then that..you get the wonderfull blue screen

WOW!!!! What a great way to use bandwith!:rolleyes:

Way to go TW. And thanks for nothing.

I'm a bit apprehensive about feedback because I've been ignored before(by a certain CBS TV station, ahem). And I've also had useful feedback. I've contacted WKYC about the HD syndication earlier in the season and got a timely, friendly response.

Too many times it seems the people running the stations either don't know, or care, about what they are doing. TBS is the least helpful. There was an email thing going on earlier in the year about their ads and stretching, TBS seemed to send a stock response.

Now I find this real hard to believe. Somebody actually ignoring you? How can that happen, you're the loudest voice in the room?:)

I'm a bit apprehensive about feedback because I've been ignored before(by a certain CBS TV station, ahem). And I've also had useful feedback. I've contacted WKYC about the HD syndication earlier in the season and got a timely, friendly response.

As I said, I can understand your reticence to contact the public stations - given examples you've shown here.

But as I said, 45/49's people have even been IN THIS VERY THREAD, and they have a toll-free number and E-Mail address just begging for questions about the DTV transition.

You can rant all you want, and implore people to withhold their money from pledging to public TV because they "aren't doing it right" (in a time period that is very obviously a transition time period, with the changes from the 24/7 PBS HD feed for both local stations), or...you can drop them a quick note expressing your feelings.

I realize you get more out of the ranting, but it doesn't give you any more power over what they do.

WOW!!!! What a great way to use bandwith!:rolleyes:

Way to go TW. And thanks for nothing.

The "HD Sports" or "FSN Ohio HD" blue screens take a very minimum of bandwidth, I'd assume...my guess is that it's negligible, and if it went away, there wouldn't be any more room to add any other channel.

ONLY time you get a picture is when the Cavs are playing and the game is in HD..other then that..you get the wonderfull blue screen

WOW!!!! What a great way to use bandwith!:rolleyes:

Way to go TW. And thanks for nothing.
It's my understanding that FSN makes the schedule, not the carrier. Same scenario for WOW, except our screen reads, "HD SPORTS" instead of "FOX SPORTS OHIO" when there's no programming.

See link on this page for programming schedule:
http://msn.foxsports.com/regional/ohio

It's my understanding that FSN makes the schedule, not the carrier. Same scenario for WOW, except our screen reads, "HD SPORTS" instead of "FOX SPORTS OHIO" when there's no programming.

See link on this page for programming schedule:
http://msn.foxsports.com/regional/ohio

It's Thanksgiving so I apologize for not being grateful. I suppose this is great for the majority of you and I understand Cleveland fans, you're very loyal to your team and I give you credit for that. But I did say "thanks a lot TW.":D

If I were a Cav's fan no way I can watch it anyway. Right now my S3 is 2/3 full with 750gb and my TiVo HD is almost 1/2 full with 700gb. For my birthday my wife gave me a brand new Mac Leopard, 24" screen and 1TB hard drive. I have 48 shows transferred on to that!

I haven't mentioned the Mac up until now because I was over in the TiVo Forum under the ID of RckStrang. I set up the account around July 3rd and only posted 47 times since then. I logged on the other day and saw that I was kicked out for "multiple identities" and I could only come back if I joined the TCF Club. :confused::confused: A few people over here in the AVS forum knew what I was doing (not in this thread) I didn't tell the name but it would have been easy to figure it out. I don't think those few dropped a dime on me but it doesn't matter I got the info I needed and if I need anymore help I can always go back, they can't really keep me out.

Anyway I got lots of stuff to watch, I'm at least a month behind!

I think I figured out the problem. TWC added new channels in the 830s-840s that are SDV mirror channels of the sports tier channels. Only a few come in(the ones included with digital tier). I have see the Outdoor channel(I'm just as surprised as the next guy that we get an outdoor channel) and a few shopping channels are up there, all in SDV. My latenight recordings have been working fine this week. I'm thinking their working on the system may have bugged things up a bit.

Anyway I got lots of stuff to watch, I'm at least a month behind!

What, do you try to watch *EVERY* show on TV??? :confused::confused:

I'm trying to find a good DTV tuner I can use to pick up OTA signals. About 5 years ago, I purchased the HDV420, and now I noticed that it doesn't have sensitivity as good as even those cheap $50 tuners you can now get with your coupons.

Does anyone know about how the tuners have improved over the past few years? I have an HDTV with built-in tuner that was purchased years ago, but it still cannot perform as well as even this really cheap new tuner. It's not as sensitive, and that's my main issue. Signals always seems to cut away many times on the older tuners, but not with the newer one.

Can anyone help me to find a quality tuner that's got nice sensitivity and offers HDTV? Do the newer built-in tuners perform any better?

What, do you try to watch *EVERY* show on TV??? :confused::confused:

lol. No not hardly. It's just that if I'm lucky I might be able to watch 3 one hour shows. Usually just 2. But on I do record 5 shows on Monday, 4 on Sunday, 5 on Tuesday, I think 4 on Wednesday and 7 on Thursday. Friday I record 3.

And I record every Judge Judy and Peoples Court. I would record more court shows but hey, there is only so much time to watch.

You would be surprised from this point on how fast I catch up. Generally speaking the networks go into reruns in December, shows like Smallville and Supernatural don't come back until February.

However Medium and Lost will start up. And I think there is another one I want to record soon. I've got the Starter Wife I haven't even looked at.

I have over 40 season passes.

I'm trying to find a good DTV tuner I can use to pick up OTA signals. About 5 years ago, I purchased the HDV420, and now I noticed that it doesn't have sensitivity as good as even those cheap $50 tuners you can now get with your coupons.

Does anyone know about how the tuners have improved over the past few years? I have an HDTV with built-in tuner that was purchased years ago, but it still cannot perform as well as even this really cheap new tuner. It's not as sensitive, and that's my main issue. Signals always seems to cut away many times on the older tuners, but not with the newer one.

Can anyone help me to find a quality tuner that's got nice sensitivity and offers HDTV? Do the newer built-in tuners perform any better?

DTV tuners have progressed like any other technology. I believe DTV tuners are now on the 6th generation of tuner technology.

However, unless I'm not understanding your post, I think you may be confusing DTV tuner types. If your goal is to receive OTA HD for display on your HDTV in HD resolution and digital audio then the coupon boxes are not what you are looking for. The $50 coupon boxes are converters (converting HD-DTV to analog audio and analog 480 video) and will not output HD resolutions nor digital audio. There are very few "true" HD-DTV STB tuner boxes (outputting HD resolutions and digital audio) on the market and none would be even close to $50. You can expect to pay 3 times that for a "true" HD-DTV STB tuner.

I have gone through 3 external tuners, one MRD-200 (failed) and two Samsung T-165's (one instantly burned up). I have found IMHO that the tuners built into the new HDTV's (LCD SONY XBR6, XBR2) have much greater sensitiviy/performance than the external tuners. There is also the problem of overscan with the external tuners which is around 10% compared to the 2.5% LCD default and "full pixel" for 1080i broadcasts OTA. The Samsung's also had a 4 x 3 aspect problem which slightly distorted the image. (a circle was made to look oval) My MY-HD 120 computer tuner is close in performance to the Sony's but do not have the sensitivity and channel selection speed. My Sony TV's will pick up 67.1 whereas the MY-HD 120 will not. I do not know if the Sony tuners will handle 1080P but the external inputs will. I got fed up with the external tuners and gave them to my guru buddy.
JJK

I have gone through 3 external tuners, one MRD-200 (failed) and two Samsung T-165's (one instantly burned up). I have found IMHO that the tuners built into the new HDTV's (LCD SONY XBR6, XBR2) have much greater sensitiviy/performance than the external tuners. There is also the problem of overscan with the external tuners which is around 10% compared to the 2.5% LCD default and "full pixel" for 1080i broadcasts OTA. The Samsung's also had a 4 x 3 aspect problem which slightly distorted the image. (a circle was made to look oval) My MY-HD 120 computer tuner is close in performance to the Sony's but do not have the sensitivity and channel selection speed. My Sony TV's will pick up 67.1 whereas the MY-HD 120 will not. I do not know if the Sony tuners will handle 1080P but the external inputs will. I got fed up with the external tuners and gave them to my guru buddy.
JJK

The problem you describe on the Samsung should have been able to be handled by doing a zoom. I have a small 19" Samsung and it does not have that feature, but most HD televisions do. On my 37"LCD HD it has a selection called "just scan" where it is suppose to figure it out for you but sometimes it doesn't get it right.

On my old Sony CRT HD you could set it so that when you wern't on a HD channel you would revert to whatever your standard setting was. I believe I chose a setting that allowed you to have 4:3 shows in 16:9 but didn't stretch too much. However that oval circle you describe was exactly what I saw in that setting.

The only way to avoid that would be using the 4:3 settings with panels.

So I decided to just go out and purchase a Sanyo 42" HDTV today, and I'm very impressed with the built-in ATSC tuner. I use it to pick up OTA signals with my antenna, and the performance is much much better than the older model tuners. There is a huge difference between this tuner and the older one I have in my 26" Phillips HDTV, which is a few years old now. There is absolutely no break-ups in the picture. The old one couldn't even lock onto a signal.

DTV tuners have progressed like any other technology. I believe DTV tuners are now on the 6th generation of tuner technology.

However, unless I'm not understanding your post, I think you may be confusing DTV tuner types. If your goal is to receive OTA HD for display on your HDTV in HD resolution and digital audio then the coupon boxes are not what you are looking for. The $50 coupon boxes are converters (converting HD-DTV to analog audio and analog 480 video) and will not output HD resolutions nor digital audio. There are very few "true" HD-DTV STB tuner boxes (outputting HD resolutions and digital audio) on the market and none would be even close to $50. You can expect to pay 3 times that for a "true" HD-DTV STB tuner.

This is what pisses me off about the coupon program. It's also further misinforming viewers about OTA HDTV. What they're seeing is HD downconverted to SD. The best of the worst boxes have an S-Video output. Yippee!! That would be sweet if it were 1995!:rolleyes:

Instead, I think we should have boxes that will "grow" with the consumer's needs. It outputs true HD and downconvert. But no, the cheap government doesn't want to increase the value of the coupons and the manufactures are greedy and mark up the "good" boxes to ridiculous prices.

This is what pisses me off about the coupon program. It's also further misinforming viewers about OTA HDTV. What they're seeing is HD downconverted to SD. The best of the worst boxes have an S-Video output. Yippee!! That would be sweet if it were 1995!:rolleyes:

Instead, I think we should have boxes that will "grow" with the consumer's needs. It outputs true HD and downconvert. But no, the cheap government doesn't want to increase the value of the coupons and the manufactures are greedy and mark up the "good" boxes to ridiculous prices.

I agree with you about your comments Nick. However, I have one of these downconversion boxes that I've had it for about 2 years. The box downconverts HD to 480i, and it is a very nice clean picture. It does not look crappy at all, and it is useing the composite connection :eek:.
This is coming form a guy who is used to watching Blu-ray on an 8 ft wide screen, so...

So I bought this new 42" Sanyo HDTV today. I rescanned my cable channels on AT&T U-Verse, and I receive a lot more channels. This includes all the HD channels, and all the movie channels. Does anyone know what the deal is with this? I don't pay for any HD content or for any movie channels. Is it the tv?

So I bought this new 42" Sanyo HDTV today. I rescanned my cable channels on AT&T U-Verse, and I receive a lot more channels. This includes all the HD channels, and all the movie channels. Does anyone know what the deal is with this? I don't pay for any HD content or for any movie channels. Is it the tv?

Maybe it's some kind of holiday free/promo deal.
Are you not useing a cable box from AT&T? If not, then you may be picking up extra QAM channels. Did your old tv have an ATSC and/or a QAM tuner in it also?
If your old tv also has tuners built in, and this new tv picks up more channels, then I may well be buying a new Sanyo tv soon :D.

Maybe it's some kind of holiday free/promo deal.
Are you not useing a cable box from AT&T? If not, then you may be picking up extra QAM channels. Did your old tv have an ATSC and/or a QAM tuner in it also?
If your old tv also has tuners built in, and this new tv picks up more channels, then I may well be buying a new Sanyo tv soon :D.

It looks like AT&T U-Verse is offering the 400 channel package for this weekend.

I agree with you about your comments Nick. However, I have one of these downconversion boxes that I've had it for about 2 years. The box downconverts HD to 480i, and it is a very nice clean picture. It does not look crappy at all, and it is useing the composite connection :eek:.
This is coming form a guy who is used to watching Blu-ray on an 8 ft wide screen, so...

I'm not doubting that the picture is any worse on downconvert, but my problem is that these boxes "pigeon hole" people who have them. If they ever decide to upgrade their equipment, the box is worthless. There should be more options with it so it won't be a waste in a few years when TVs are replaced.

I'm not doubting that the picture is any worse on downconvert, but my problem is that these boxes "pigeon hole" people who have them. If they ever decide to upgrade their equipment, the box is worthless. There should be more options with it so it won't be a waste in a few years when TVs are replaced.

Umm, nickdawg...

The federal government's coupon program isn't meant to provide low-cost HDTV tuners to HD set owners.

It's meant to provide inexpensive DIGITAL TV RECEPTION to those who only have analog tuners.

When's the last time you could buy a true HDTV set that only had analog tuners? 2003?

Nowhere has the federal government or any of those providing information on its behalf (local TV stations, etc.) claimed that the coupon program was meant to provide HDTV. It's the *DIGITAL TV TRANSITION*, not the HDTV Transition.

If you spent the bucks on a true HD set and don't have a digital tuner built in, it's your problem.

This is what pisses me off about the coupon program. It's also further misinforming viewers about OTA HDTV. What they're seeing is HD downconverted to SD. The best of the worst boxes have an S-Video output. Yippee!! That would be sweet if it were 1995!:rolleyes:

Instead, I think we should have boxes that will "grow" with the consumer's needs. It outputs true HD and downconvert. But no, the cheap government doesn't want to increase the value of the coupons and the manufactures are greedy and mark up the "good" boxes to ridiculous prices.


Yes but that defeats the entire purpose of the govt. issuing coupons (subsidizing the cost) in the first place. The coupon program is to help those that have analog TV's and utilize the public airwaves. If they have an HDTV then there is little need for a STB tuner for HD content.

If we are going to go down that road then the coupons could be used towards the purchase of a $5,000 HDTV. Hardly what the program was intended for. ;)

Umm, nickdawg...

The federal government's coupon program isn't meant to provide low-cost HDTV tuners to HD set owners.

It's meant to provide inexpensive DIGITAL TV RECEPTION to those who only have analog tuners.

When's the last time you could buy a true HDTV set that only had analog tuners? 2003?

Nowhere has the federal government or any of those providing information on its behalf (local TV stations, etc.) claimed that the coupon program was meant to provide HDTV. It's the *DIGITAL TV TRANSITION*, not the HDTV Transition.

If you spent the bucks on a true HD set and don't have a digital tuner built in, it's your problem.


This response, and the way you said it came across to me as absolutely hilarious!:D;)

I needed a laugh. Thanks!

This response, and the way you said it came across to me as absolutely hilarious!:D;)

I needed a laugh. Thanks!

How? I didn't think it was 'hilarious' at all.

I have a two year old HDTV with one ATSC tuner. It's awful. Right now I can't pick anything up at all. But I hear about these new tuner boxes being able to pick up stations with a regular indoor antenna. I have an old house with a roof antenna and I tried rabbit ears. NOTHING.

I guess I'm gonna have to take a crappy SD only output box as backup if the cable goes out. I won't be laughing next March when the cable goes out and I have NO TV.

I guess I'm gonna have to take a crappy SD only output box as backup if the cable goes out. I won't be laughing next March when the cable goes out and I have NO TV.

Look, this whole coupon thing isn't meant to help people who buy HDTVs. It's meant to help those who are losing their TV OTA because the government mandated that analog signals shut off entirely.

It's not meant to protect you from bad ATSC tuners in your HDTV.

You think I'm kidding?

Are you really serious about this? :D

Repeat after me, nickdawg...and repeat slowly, so the words will sink in:

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

Once again,

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

It's not meant to protect you from bad ATSC tuners in your HDTV.


Follow-up - from dtv2009.gov:

The intent of the program is to allow consumers to continue to view TV over-the-air on the same TV they used prior to the transition, not to enable upgrades in technology.

Repeat after me, nickdawg...and repeat slowly, so the words will sink in:

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

Once again,

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

Why try?

Repeat after me, nickdawg...and repeat slowly, so the words will sink in:

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

Once again,

THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.

No f**king s**t!!!!

It's a transition from ANALOG to DIGITAL. NTSC to ATSC. 720p and 1080i are just as much ATSC formats as 480i/480p. Why is this a big deal? Does it honestly cost that much more to put at least a component output on the box? Even most cheap Walmart DVD players are component capable and have an AC-3 digital audio output.

^^Analog TVs are only 480p capable. They try to make the boxes as "idiot proof" as possible. Too confusing for a lot of people to have the option of 720/1080 in the box. All kinds of people would need customer support to figure out why their tv won't work because they have the box set to output 1080.

^^Analog TVs are only 480p capable. They try to make the boxes as "idiot proof" as possible. Too confusing for a lot of people to have the option of 720/1080 in the box. All kinds of people would need customer support to figure out why their tv won't work because they have the box set to output 1080.

Yeah, that and anything beyond 480 would fall into the "technology upgrade" qualification which is forbidden (and for good reason ;)).

Besides, how many SD TV's have component input? I'd bet very few.

^^Analog TVs are only 480p capable. They try to make the boxes as "idiot proof" as possible. Too confusing for a lot of people to have the option of 720/1080 in the box. All kinds of people would need customer support to figure out why their tv won't work because they have the box set to output 1080.

Don't you mean "only 480i capable"?

No f**king s**t!!!!

It's a transition from ANALOG to DIGITAL. NTSC to ATSC. 720p and 1080i are just as much ATSC formats as 480i/480p. Why is this a big deal? Does it honestly cost that much more to put at least a component output on the box? Even most cheap Walmart DVD players are component capable and have an AC-3 digital audio output.

You two want me to stop the car and turn around? Because I will!!!:p

Yeah, that and anything beyond 480 would fall into the "technology upgrade" qualification which is forbidden (and for good reason ;)).

Besides, how many SD TV's have component input? I'd bet very few.

When my mom got a new TV back in 2005, of course I went with her. This was back when CRTs still ruled the TV department, so that is what we got. She decided to get a 32 inc Sharp TV and it has a component input. It is a 4x3 SDTV, but it does have the option for component input. I didn't really know that much about HDTV and inputs back then, so it wasn't a feature I looked for. But, especially if someone got a new TV in the last, I'll say three years or so, they may have a component input. Even scaled to 480i and 4x3 cut, that picture would be FAR better than analog OTA or even the SD digital cable she has now.

I'm surprised to see an opposition to "technology upgrade". Isn't that what this site is supposed to be about? Upgrading and better technology. I'd never say that blocking a technology upgrade is 'good'. AFAIC, "we" are in part paying for the converter boxes in this transition. And as someone who is partially finding this(we all are, unless you don't work) I want quality equipment. Why not make the coupons worth a little more so the consumer can get a better box?

But it is a GOVERNMENT program so the stupidity doesn't surprise me. I'd much rather have MY tax money go to help pay for a good HDTV converter than have 700 billion + wasted on Wall Street or now some jackasses want 25 billion + wasted on the auto makers.

Did anybody check to see if the Treasury Department had any "TARP" forms available for the Analog/Digital TV conversion?
JJK

AFAIC, "we" are in part paying for the converter boxes in this transition. And as someone who is partially finding this(we all are, unless you don't work)

Unless you bought some 700 MHz auctioned spectrum, none of your dollars are going toward the coupon program.

- Trip

How? I didn't think it was 'hilarious' at all.

I have a two year old HDTV with one ATSC tuner. It's awful. Right now I can't pick anything up at all. But I hear about these new tuner boxes being able to pick up stations with a regular indoor antenna. I have an old house with a roof antenna and I tried rabbit ears. NOTHING.

I guess I'm gonna have to take a crappy SD only output box as backup if the cable goes out. I won't be laughing next March when the cable goes out and I have NO TV.

I've only been glancing at the conversations you've been having. My first thought was it was just funny. It still is.

The "crappy SD" is so far superior from the analog you'll be able to survive a cable outage if necessary. Quite honestly I don't know how often you have cable outages in your area but I can only recall a couple and both were during the day.

And if you can't get anything from a roof top antenna don't expect to get much from rabbit ears. You may have to actually get up on your roof and point your antenna in a different direction for the old style antennas.

And that's what's going to really get people p.o.'d when the change comes. What once was a "snowy but kind of watchable picture" will be nothing. If you live in the outskirts of Cleveland you probably won't get a picture.

I once had a conversation with a cable tech about what's happened to picture signals in the early 90's. Why was it that when I lived in Hawthorne California as a kid I could get signals no problem and now I needed cable. He said basically too much interference with other signals, like microwave, satellite and such. Now we got digital wireless phones and everything else going on. No wonder you can't get an analog signal.

If I was a space alien I would have no problem finding this planet with all of the RF floating around.
JJK

You two want me to stop the car and turn around? Because I will!!!:p

Nah, I already abandoned the car. If he doesn't wanna listen, who am I to argue? :D

If I was a space alien I would have no problem finding this planet with all of the RF floating around.
JJK

That's interesting. How would you know what a space alien would think UNLESS you ARE a space alien.:D

I have no idea what RF means. Rat Fink? Royal Flush?

anyone else hearing crackling in the audio on WEWS ABC? trying to watch this football game and its terrible. TWC HD and OTA both giving me the same problem

anyone else hearing crackling in the audio on WEWS ABC? trying to watch this football game and its terrible. TWC HD and OTA both giving me the same problem

Yes, I'm also hearing it on the WEWS HD feed via TWC.

I'm not hearing it at all.

WEWS is known to have s..tty digital audio though.

If I was a space alien I would have no problem finding this planet with all of the RF floating around.
JJK

Hehe... Watched a show last night where they mentioned research done by SETI (of all other groups!) suggests that RF leaving our rock dissipates and gets scrambled into the noise enough to be unrecognizable around two light-years out from here.

I wonder how small we really are in the universe.... E=MC2 be damned - there's a lot going on that we really don't understand...

When my mom got a new TV back in 2005, of course I went with her. This was back when CRTs still ruled the TV department, so that is what we got. She decided to get a 32 inc Sharp TV and it has a component input. It is a 4x3 SDTV, but it does have the option for component input. I didn't really know that much about HDTV and inputs back then, so it wasn't a feature I looked for. But, especially if someone got a new TV in the last, I'll say three years or so, they may have a component input. Even scaled to 480i and 4x3 cut, that picture would be FAR better than analog OTA or even the SD digital cable she has now.

I'm surprised to see an opposition to "technology upgrade". Isn't that what this site is supposed to be about? Upgrading and better technology. I'd never say that blocking a technology upgrade is 'good'. AFAIC, "we" are in part paying for the converter boxes in this transition. And as someone who is partially finding this(we all are, unless you don't work) I want quality equipment. Why not make the coupons worth a little more so the consumer can get a better box?

But it is a GOVERNMENT program so the stupidity doesn't surprise me. I'd much rather have MY tax money go to help pay for a good HDTV converter than have 700 billion + wasted on Wall Street or now some jackasses want 25 billion + wasted on the auto makers.

Hey, I'm on your side. I wish a $50 STB existed with HD output, coupon or not. I have and use an HD output STB for OTA and QAM. But these run 3x that price for a decent one. Due to a very small market demand for such boxes there are very few mfr's of them and very few model #'s to choose from. This small selection of STB's is going to get even smaller as Samsung is discontinuing one of the more popular STB's with no current plans to replace it.

Where you and I part company is in what the govt should be subsidising for consumer electronics and keeping the setup and operation of these boxes as simple as possible. There are few times I agree with the govt's running of programs (stupidly, as you say ;)) but I completely agree with the limitations of the DTV Coupon program. The program's limitations make it so the consumer will have on Feb 17th exactly what they had on Feb 16th. Basic, simple, OTA reception of local TV broadcasts.

As for Component on analog TV's, I've owned 4 tubes and I've helped no less than 20 friends and family with their analog TV's over the past two years (antenna's, added equipment, setup issues, converter boxes, etc..). Out of the 50+ sets I saw a total of two sets had Component inputs. It's a very small segment of the analog market.

I'm not opposed to "technology upgrades" at all. I *am* opposed to our govt. subsidizing it. You can get govt cheese for free or you can buy your own cheese at the store, it's your choice. :D

If you don't like this govt program, just wait till you see what's coming. :eek:

RF---short for: weather radars, military radars, satellites, microwaves, police radios, fire radios, cb radios, ham operators, 60khz clock sync transmissions, wireless computers, wireless speakers, cell phones, am/fm radio, television, a/g radio transmissions, NASA transmissions, wireless ocean buoys, wireless labtops, wireless emergency traffic controls, NFL wireless helmets, etc.
JJK

some NEW HD channels added to our TW lineup in NE OHIO..

I know the answer is probably NO !!!!!...but since its Chrismtmas I thought I would put it on my Christmas list hoping Santa would give me some new HD Channel options..

some NEW HD channels added to our TW lineup in NE OHIO..

I know the answer is probably NO !!!!!...but since its Chrismtmas I thought I would put it on my Christmas list hoping Santa would give me some new HD Channel options..

.......have you been naughty or nice????

I think I been Nice...not so sure about Time Warner Cable...

The program's limitations make it so the consumer will have on Feb 17th exactly what they had on Feb 16th. Basic, simple, OTA reception of local TV broadcasts.
Good point, toby10.

To paraphrase a statement someone else made a little over a month ago:

"No HD OTA channels for the cheap asses who don't want to spring for a STB that's only $7 more a month."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14905860&highlight=cheap%20asses#post14905860

Assuming the set top box will be used for 3 years, $7/month x 36 months comes out to $252, more than enough for a decent STB you can keep.;)

RF---short for: weather radars, military radars, satellites, microwaves, police radios, fire radios, cb radios, ham operators, 60khz clock sync transmissions, wireless computers, wireless speakers, cell phones, am/fm radio, television, a/g radio transmissions, NASA transmissions, wireless ocean buoys, wireless labtops, wireless emergency traffic controls, NFL wireless helmets, etc.
JJK

Now you've got me thinking... add bluetooh headsets, RFID, keyfob car locks, pacemakers, numerous other medical devices, wireless point-of-sale terminals, garage door openers... it gets pretty soupy in terms of RF.

Now you've got me thinking... add bluetooh headsets, RFID, keyfob car locks, pacemakers, numerous other medical devices, wireless point-of-sale terminals, garage door openers... it gets pretty soupy in terms of RF.

And all of that is in 2008! When I had that conversation it was around 1992. So if analog was bad then, just imagine what it is like now.

Apparently I have caught up to the time when they started opening up the rear speakers, and it sounds like crap.

nickdawg was right, this is faux Dolby. I can do the same thing by making all my speakers go. It was better off the way before, without the Dolby 5.1.

I tried to bypass it by putting my TiVo S3 to Dolby to PCM and then selected Dolby Pro Logic II. Now I don't know how or why but doing that caused the exact same thing as having it in Dolby 5.1.

I could try some of the other "effects" like Cinema and stuff but I didn't want to waste all night fooling with it.

I'm watching shows from around Halloween. Does it improve later or is it like this all the time?

Apparently I have caught up to the time when they started opening up the rear speakers, and it sounds like crap.

nickdawg was right, this is faux Dolby. I can do the same thing by making all my speakers go. It was better off the way before, without the Dolby 5.1.

I tried to bypass it by putting my TiVo S3 to Dolby to PCM and then selected Dolby Pro Logic II. Now I don't know how or why but doing that caused the exact same thing as having it in Dolby 5.1.

I could try some of the other "effects" like Cinema and stuff but I didn't want to waste all night fooling with it.

I'm watching shows from around Halloween. Does it improve later or is it like this all the time?

I don't know. I've had everything in PCM for the last almost three weeks(thanks to a TWC/Navigator EAS test). What I noticed on WBNX is only network programming had surround sound, local inserted programming still is in WKYC mode(front L R only).

That's what Pro Logic II does. It takes a 2 channel source and stimulates surround sound. PCM actually does sound better. I watched "The Incredibles" on NBC Thursday and it sounded fantastic in PCM. Even "The Office" sounded better on NBC HD. It's a good way to fix the affiliate's f**k ups.

some NEW HD channels added to our TW lineup in NE OHIO..

I know the answer is probably NO !!!!!...but since its Chrismtmas I thought I would put it on my Christmas list hoping Santa would give me some new HD Channel options..

I know Cox here is adding about 10 more Hd channels on December 9th...im pumped :)

I know Cox here is adding about 10 more Hd channels on December 9th...im pumped :)

how many HD channels does that give you...(not counting Locals)..

what new ones are you getting...

at least someone is getting something for christmas

ONLY time you get a picture is when the Cavs are playing and the game is in HD..other then that..you get the wonderfull blue screenWell, it should be for more than just the Cavs. On E* I get College Football games in HD on FS Ohio (BTW: they dropped "Net" from their name). Even STO had some recent HD content: 2 High School playoff games.

With satellite whenever there is no HD content we get screen saying "check back often to see if your favorite team is playing in HD". That screen is "mirrored" as in no waste of bandwidth (one screen mirrored to every RSN not currently showing HD content). Perhaps that blue screen on cable is done in a similar fashon.

Hehe... Watched a show last night where they mentioned research done by SETI (of all other groups!) suggests that RF leaving our rock dissipates and gets scrambled into the noise enough to be unrecognizable around two light-years out from here.

I wonder how small we really are in the universe.... E=MC2 be damned - there's a lot going on that we really don't understand...
:( My hope was that all our old RF was still intact out there waiting for a super fast space ship to catch up with all those classic live TV broadcasts from the 50's and record them and send them back here :D

This is what pisses me off about the coupon program. It's also further misinforming viewers about OTA HDTV. What they're seeing is HD downconverted to SD. The best of the worst boxes have an S-Video output. Yippee!! That would be sweet if it were 1995!:rolleyes:

Instead, I think we should have boxes that will "grow" with the consumer's needs. It outputs true HD and downconvert. But no, the cheap government doesn't want to increase the value of the coupons and the manufactures are greedy and mark up the "good" boxes to ridiculous prices.There is no need for the STB to "grow". When the consumer buys a new TV it will already have a built-in ATSC tuner that probably would run rings around the cheap converter boxes they sell today. Those boxes are temporary stop-gap measures for those who for whatever reason does not want to upgrade to an HDTV today.

I just noticed that MGM HD is on channel 473 on TWC in Mentor. There is some army WWII movie on I'm not familiar with. There is an MGM HD logo on the bottom of ther screen. There is no guide info.
Is this new or did I miss something?

Ray

This is new. MOJO was dropped in lieu of this efective 12/1/08

AlsoTWC boxes in old Adelphia areas will have Navigator software added in May 09. They now have SARA. Transition was delayed

AlsoTWC boxes in old Adelphia areas will have Navigator software added in May 09. They now have SARA. Transition was delayed

Yeah, right. May 09.:rolleyes:

If someone told you May, I'd look for it in November.

Didn't you know that TW was going to SDV on October 20th? Oh, that didn't happen either did it?

This is new. MOJO was dropped in lieu of this efective 12/1/08

Is this on the upper tier like MOJO? Because if it is, I'm glad I decided to drop it.

Another waste of disk space.

Yeah, right. May 09.:rolleyes:

If someone told you May, I'd look for it in November.

Didn't you know that TW was going to SDV on October 20th? Oh, that didn't happen either did it?

SDV is up and running. I have a few "test" channels in the 800s. Nothing special, just shopping and some sports tier channels.

To the OP of this, you made my week!! I'm so happy to hear the Adelphia people will finally be getting Navigator!!! HAHA!!!:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p See what it's like to have a sucky OS!!!

Is this on the upper tier like MOJO? Because if it is, I'm glad I decided to drop it.

Another waste of disk space.

I'm happy they added MGM HD. At least it is nothing I would want to watch. Now if TWC added USA HD today, I'd be in line turning in my boxes and canceling. :mad:

SDV is up and running. I have a few "test" channels in the 800s. Nothing special, just shopping and some sports tier channels.

nickdawg, can you give me a couple of those channel numbers? I definitely can't see on my TiVo but I do see some duplicate channels like Discovery International.

To the OP of this, you made my week!! I'm so happy to hear the Adelphia people will finally be getting Navigator!!! HAHA!!!:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p See what it's like to have a sucky OS!!!

It shouldn't be hard for them to deal with. They've had crap for years now, it's just most don't realize it. Up until Navigator came out SARA was the worst of the two from what I read. And my own personal experience is well documented.

I'm happy they added MGM HD. At least it is nothing I would want to watch. Now if TWC added USA HD today, I'd be in line turning in my boxes and canceling. :mad:

Why would you be glad that they are wasting bandwith space? Pay money for old war movies? This is just insane.

And I personally would welcome the return of USAHD. I record many of their shows now.

Why would you be glad that they are wasting bandwith space? Pay money for old war movies? This is just insane.

And I personally would welcome the return of USAHD. I record many of their shows now.

That was the point, if TWC added USAHD in the HDTV Tier, I would be pi**ed and cancel. We both know that TWC won't drop the "money tier" any time soon(unless HDNET goes under and Universal HD goes dark). So if they are going to add anything for a charge, let it be something stupid. Maybe they'll lose subscribers and start giving us four more channels for free?;)

That was the point, if TWC added USAHD in the HDTV Tier, I would be pi**ed and cancel. We both know that TWC won't drop the "money tier" any time soon(unless HDNET goes under and Universal HD goes dark). So if they are going to add anything for a charge, let it be something stupid. Maybe they'll lose subscribers and start giving us four more channels for free?;)

Gee thanks for your response nickdawg. Now how about answering the other part of my post. I asked you what channels you were getting in the 800's that you believe are SDV?

If you're at work of course I understand.

MY point of adding the additional tier is that it still a waste of space.

Actually, I just checked my box and rebooted it and in fact TWC seems to be getting on the ball with SDV. Channels 818-849 seem to be all SDV at this point but all but a couple seem to be disabled with the 'call customer service' banner. Channels up in the top of that list like 848 and 849 are enabled and working and mostly infomercial shopping channels. Checking in with the diag screen while tuning these channels they are showing up as valid SDV channels and tuning properly. The only thing is currently these channels do not show in the guide yet (at least on my box) but they are tunable.

Another thing I noticed is they have added a minor but sorely missed feature from Passport into navigator which is is you enter a non-existant channel number, it'll go ahead and tune to the next available channel in numerical order (or move to that channel if in the guide) rather than going 'wuuuuh?' and flashing question marks at you.

Also, seems they've been busy adding additional on demand channels and programming here and there. One of which is their Photoshow channel that touts being able to create your own slideshows with animations, music, etc. through a program provided through RR.com with your HSI service, upload it to their server, and then you can pull it up on the OD channel or give info to friends and family so they can watch it (dunno if it's cross-region capable or not.)

Gee thanks for your response nickdawg. Now how about answering the other part of my post. I asked you what channels you were getting in the 800's that you believe are SDV?

If you're at work of course I understand.

MY point of adding the additional tier is that it still a waste of space.

I couldn't agree more! I LOVED Mojo...seriously good channel believe it or not. Great shows like Three Sheets, Pressure Cook with Ralph Pagano and Getting Abroad. Funny & informative stuff and great looking shows. Now they replace the only thing that made the HD tier worth anything with a tired channel like MGM-HD! It makes HDnet Movies look good!! ha! I mean, where's Travel Channel HD? That would have been the logical replacement for MOJO as it has very similar shows. I know they offer that in other markets so they have the agreement. Even Animal Planet HD would be better. In my eyes they couldn't have picked a worse channel...very disapointing.

As of now that extra HD Tier is 99% worthless in my opinion. I'm sure somebody out there likes it, but I gotta tell ya....Yuck! I checked Dish Network out and if it wasn't more expensive by a good margin to get the functionality I have now (ie full function HD-DVR on three HDTV's, SD on 4 others)...I'd be switching. Unless TWC launches Buffalo's lineup here, if Dish ever makes their HD-DVR's cheaper or have two set functionality in HD, I'm switching.

Another thing I noticed is they have added a minor but sorely missed feature from Passport into navigator which is is you enter a non-existant channel number, it'll go ahead and tune to the next available channel in numerical order (or move to that channel if in the guide) rather than going 'wuuuuh?' and flashing question marks at you.



Yeah, those channels are "hidden" on my TV too. The only way I found these was using the title search for "Human Wrecking Balls" on G4 and along with 329, another 8XX channel came up, but the SDV version is not turned on yet.

My TV doesn't do that. If I enter "409" the guide stays on the current chanel and doesn't do anything. I would expect it to go to "410" since it would be the next channel.

Yeah, those channels are "hidden" on my TV too. The only way I found these was using the title search for "Human Wrecking Balls" on G4 and along with 329, another 8XX channel came up, but the SDV version is not turned on yet.

My TV doesn't do that. If I enter "409" the guide stays on the current chanel and doesn't do anything. I would expect it to go to "410" since it would be the next channel.

Sounds wonderful!:rolleyes: Glad I have TiVo!:)

how many HD channels does that give you...(not counting Locals)..

what new ones are you getting...

at least someone is getting something for christmas

Right now we have
-all the locals
-nat geo hd
-universal hd
-nfl network hd
-fsn hd but only for cavs and blue jackets games
-palladia hd
-tbs hd
-tlc hd
-history channel hd
-A&E hd
-Espn HD
-Espn2 HD
-Big 10 HD
-Usa hd
-The weather channel Hd
-Hd Theatre
-Cnbc hd
-Discovery hd
-Tnt hd
-Lifetime hd
-cnn hd
-food network hd
-hgtv hd
-travel channel hd
-sportstime ohio hd

Were getting on december 9th Mtv hd, Amc hd, Nickelodeon hd, Spike hd, VH1 hd, Animal Planet hd, Hallmark movie channel hd, Sci-Fi hd, CMT hd, Bravo hd, Science channel hd, planet green hd, and Lifetime movie network hd.

Confucious say: "Too many channels make for sore thumb and blinky eyeballs."
JJK

Yeah, those channels are "hidden" on my TV too. The only way I found these was using the title search for "Human Wrecking Balls" on G4 and along with 329, another 8XX channel came up, but the SDV version is not turned on yet.

My TV doesn't do that. If I enter "409" the guide stays on the current chanel and doesn't do anything. I would expect it to go to "410" since it would be the next channel.

Hrm. May either have been a fluke or my imagination. *shrug* I always found the feature invaluable though especially with the large list of channels and not knowing specific channel positions for 99% of it. I can just punch in an arbitrary channel number close to what I'm looking for and get to the general location in the guide rather than jamming the page up/dn buttons repeatedly for minutes.

Though I still await for them to add the C button 'title search' functionality where you highlight a program in the guide, hit 'C', and it goes to the title search list on that program so you can see additional showtimes rather than manually entering the show name every time.

Los Angeles just conducted a 2:00 DTV test. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG3k9Mkly_A) is how it looked...

Los Angeles just conducted a 2:00 DTV test. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG3k9Mkly_A) is how it looked...

Only problem with that is if Cleveland did that today, anybody with Time Warner SDTV would also see that message. TWC is still taking SD locals from the analog feed, not the HDTV feed, as satellite does. I'm not sure how the cable setup is in LA, but the cable viewers have a chance at seeing that message as well under current conditions.

Only problem with that is if Cleveland did that today, anybody with Time Warner SDTV would also see that message. TWC is still taking SD locals from the analog feed, not the HDTV feed, as satellite does. I'm not sure how the cable setup is in LA, but the cable viewers have a chance at seeing that message as well under current conditions.

Actually, that's something you'd have to take up with the stations themselves since, AFAIK, TWC's retrieving the channel feeds through fiber or other direct means for all but a few of the smaller stations. Logically those stations should be making it so the message doesn't air over the direct feed since they know it's going out to cable customers. And it's not all that difficult either. Just a case of putting the box generating the test pattern screen farthest up the line right before the transmitting equipment thus bypassing the direct feed.

Then again, when has logic or common sense ever played a role in anything here in Northern Ohio? :D

Then again, when has logic or common sense ever played a role in anything here in Northern Ohio? :D

I believe I have tried to state that many times, but the very simplicity of expressing that never seems to come to me.:o

I have the list of the channels I get in the 830s/840s attached. This psycho text box editor for the forum kept screwing with my formatting, so it's attached. I don't know why it insists on making my channel abbreviations all lower case. I HATE that!!:mad::mad:

Just to be thorough, I took the liberty of editing your list and further added more channels that are labeled as SDV here that were not in your list. Most seem to be spanish language clones of traditional programming.

I just had to laugh! :D

Last night I saw another DTV.gov commercial extolling the usual DTV benefits (better PQ and SQ....etc...) but now they added a new *benefit* that I had not seen on these commercials of "....and you'll get more FREE channels".

Wait till the new DTV coupon people see just what these extra free ch's actually are! LOL

"WOW Martha, look at all of these extra, free, crappy looking, weather ch's and stretcho-vision (my favorite nickdawg term ;)) programming we now get!"


:D:cool::eek:

I just had to laugh! :D

Last night I saw another DTV.gov commercial extolling the usual DTV benefits (better PQ and SQ....etc...) but now they added a new *benefit* that I had not seen on these commercials of "....and you'll get more FREE channels".

Wait till the new DTV coupon people see just what these extra free ch's actually are! LOL

"WOW Martha, look at all of these extra, free, crappy looking, weather ch's and stretcho-vision (my favorite nickdawg term ;)) programming we now get!"

:D:cool::eek:

The funny part about it is most people will not even notice it.

I don't think people are that educated about HD. Have you heard some of the questions they have coming into FOX News at 6?

The funny part about it is most people will not even notice it.

I don't think people are that educated about HD. Have you heard some of the questions they have coming into FOX News at 6?

LOL.....no, but I can just imagine. :D

"Where do I place my DTV coupon box so the satellite can see it?"

OK, a question on behalf of a relative of mine with DirecTV...are there any reputable satellite install guys who work in the Akron area!

Thanks!

I just had to laugh! :D

Last night I saw another DTV.gov commercial extolling the usual DTV benefits (better PQ and SQ....etc...) but now they added a new *benefit* that I had not seen on these commercials of "....and you'll get more FREE channels".

Wait till the new DTV coupon people see just what these extra free ch's actually are! LOL

"WOW Martha, look at all of these extra, free, crappy looking, weather ch's and stretcho-vision (my favorite nickdawg term ;)) programming we now get!"


:D:cool::eek:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/154428/hd_or_standard_def_one_in_five_hdtv_owners_dont_know_the_dif ference.html

Many viewers can't even tell the difference. SHHHH! Don't let TWC hear that or else they might try to add more "HD" by just stretching the SDTV channels. :D:D;)

Just to be thorough, I took the liberty of editing your list and further added more channels that are labeled as SDV here that were not in your list. Most seem to be spanish language clones of traditional programming.

I took a look at the entire channel range via my TiVo HD last night and while I can't say I definitely saw every channel you had on the list I saw the vast majority of them.

I don't think some of those channels I get, I just get the lower tier digital as my espanol es muy paquito, and G2 and all that other garbage is pretty much a waste of space. Some I did get however, but they were one's that I pay for (including G2).

Now if that's suppose to be SDV, I shouldn't be able to get them off my TiVo. So I'm confused as to what you are seeing. I think you may see them listed on your diagnostic as SDV but they arn't truly using them as such.

And if you didn't figure out what i said in Spanish was I speak very little. But when you're from L.A. somehow you pick up some of it.:)

Well, considering these channels only showed up just recently, I doubt they are putting them into full use just yet. But they do show up as SDV through the diag screen and even the channel labels are all suffixed with SDV (ie: 'TDC ESP SDV' for example.). Though on my system they all display the classic 'not subscribed. call customer service' banner aside from 848 and 849.

For all we know, with the whole tuning resolver mess and the class action suit fiasco elsewhere, NEO may be temporarily holding off till either situation clears up (just a hunch).

I took a look at the entire channel range via my TiVo HD last night and while I can't say I definitely saw every channel you had on the list I saw the vast majority of them.

I don't think some of those channels I get, I just get the lower tier digital as my espanol es muy paquito, and G2 and all that other garbage is pretty much a waste of space. Some I did get however, but they were one's that I pay for (including G2).

Now if that's suppose to be SDV, I shouldn't be able to get them off my TiVo. So I'm confused as to what you are seeing. I think you may see them listed on your diagnostic as SDV but they arn't truly using them as such.

And if you didn't figure out what i said in Spanish was I speak very little. But when you're from L.A. somehow you pick up some of it.:)

Did you try to watch those channels in the 800s? Example: Outdoor channel on 840, NOT 330?

The regular versions of those channels in the normal location are NOT SDV yet(the diagnostic screen only shows the 800s channels as SDV). As I typed and uploaded that list, I watched paid programs on channel SAH and I noticed that the picture froze several times. Plus the PQ is a little less than the normal non-SDV channel. I guess SDV is only up there since it is not quite ready for primetime yet.

I'm watching "Yanni Voices" on WEAO 49.1 OTA tonight and it looks like they've done a weird SD zoom thing - the PQ is SD quality, and is zoomed to almost fill the 16:9 frame, but there are thin black borders all around, top/bottom/right/left. Other PBS stations around the country indicate this program should be in HD.

The mighty Yanni PBS fundraising machine is back from from the dead! :D

I'm watching "Yanni Voices" on WEAO 49.1 OTA tonight and it looks like they've done a weird SD zoom thing - the PQ is SD quality, and is zoomed to almost fill the 16:9 frame, but there are thin black borders all around, top/left/right/left. Other PBS stations around the country indicate this program should be in HD.

The mighty Yanni PBS fundraising machine is back from from the dead! :D

Sadly, I think this is the new norm for WNEO-DT. The other day I caught part of the News Hour show. It was partially windowboxed on WNEO and SD quality. On WVIZ-DT it was full 16x9 and HD quality. I"m not sure why they would do that. Makes absolutely no sense that a LIVE program(on both SD and HD at same time) would not get HD.

Stupidity reigns at WNEO. Like I said before, if you donated in the past or plan on doing so, DON'T. Don't help fund someone who cannot properly broadcast in high definition.

I see your "720p sucks" signature. Funny thing is WNEO broadcasts natively in 720p(on TWC, not sure about OTA and WEAO). Before they started showing SD upconvert s..t, it actually didn't look that bad, relative to other channels. But now it looks like they're showing 480i upconvert content, I could live with that since the major networks do it. But what makes the picture truly awful is the "zoom-o-vision" where letterbox programming is Blown Up to fit the screen. I despise that. Even with my own cable box, I watch letterboxed programming(USA, F/X, Discovery) in windowbox mode(bars on all sides) because the SD PQ gets degraded when it is expanded.

..............
The mighty Yanni PBS fundraising machine is back from from the dead! :D

Oh.............joy. :rolleyes:

Funny thing is WNEO broadcasts natively in 720p(on TWC, not sure about OTA and WEAO).

I had not noticed that before. Yep, it's 720p OTA on 49-1. That's bad news - means only one thing - they are cheating a little more bandwidth out of the main HD channel to make room for future subchannels.... Ugh.

Did you try to watch those channels in the 800s? Example: Outdoor channel on 840, NOT 330?



Yes. That's what I said in my post.

I took a look at the entire channel range via my TiVo HD last night

I had not noticed that before. Yep, it's 720p OTA on 49-1. That's bad news - means only one thing - they are cheating a little more bandwidth out of the main HD channel to make room for future subchannels.... Ugh.

I don't know, that's debatable. Many people prefer 720p to 1080i.

When I had a 1080i set I often felt 720p looked better, now I have a 720p set but My TiVo's are set to convert 1080i to 720p and 480i to 480p. I had to do this with one of my sets due to an issue with hdmi to dvi handshaking on one of my sets, and because the other set changes channels quicker with this set up.

That is a TiVo thing.

Well, more bad news for WOIO-DT.

Canada is currently working on their post-transition allocation table, and it's coming in bit by bit on the FCC site. They're going alphabetically by province and then by city, and just yesterday got through London.

Yes, you guessed it, after the 2011 transition in Canada, CFPL-DT will return to 10, unless they request a different channel specifically.

Sorry folks, not sure what to tell you yet.

- Trip

Well, more bad news for WOIO-DT.

Canada is currently working on their post-transition allocation table, and it's coming in bit by bit on the FCC site. They're going alphabetically by province and then by city, and just yesterday got through London.

Yes, you guessed it, after the 2011 transition in Canada, CFPL-DT will return to 10, unless they request a different channel specifically.

Sorry folks, not sure what to tell you yet.

- Trip


I do. OTA may have to go cable or satellite if they want CBS.

Well, more bad news for WOIO-DT.

Canada is currently working on their post-transition allocation table, and it's coming in bit by bit on the FCC site. They're going alphabetically by province and then by city, and just yesterday got through London.

Yes, you guessed it, after the 2011 transition in Canada, CFPL-DT will return to 10, unless they request a different channel specifically.

Sorry folks, not sure what to tell you yet.

- Trip

HeyTrip... where are you getting the info about Canadian allocations?

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=on&city=london&call=&arn=2008120&serv=DT&type=8&list=2&size=9

There's a link to the London ON allocations. Adjust the "state" and "city" fields accordingly, blank out "city" and just modify "state" to see all allocations in a given province, or blank them both and just put something in for "call" to see a specific station.

- Trip

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=on&city=london&call=&arn=2008120&serv=DT&type=8&list=2&size=9

There's a link to the London ON allocations. Adjust the "state" and "city" fields accordingly, blank out "city" and just modify "state" to see all allocations in a given province, or blank them both and just put something in for "call" to see a specific station.

- TripWhat burns me up is the fact that WOIO ws able to push WBNS off ch 10, even though that station had that channel for DECADES before WOIO was on the air! Ch 10 does not belong in Cleveland! If WOIO wanted to bo on a hi-VHF channel they should have picked another channel. CFPL-TV came in like a local TV station on the U.S. side of Lake Erie since I was a kid in the 60's. I even remember TV personalities and street names in London from viewing CFPL. Putting WOIO on ch 10 had to be the dumbest thing Raycom ever did.

Fortunately for some in the Cleveland DMA we can pick up WKBN-DT out of Youngstown. Now THAT's a signal! It covers from downtown Cleveland to downtown Pittsburgh! Unfortunately some inside the coverage map cannot get the signal due to terrain obstructions (and those are the people who need an alternate CBS the most - Lake County, along the shore of Lake Erie close to London Ontario signals).

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=on&city=london&call=&arn=2008120&serv=DT&type=8&list=2&size=9

There's a link to the London ON allocations. Adjust the "state" and "city" fields accordingly, blank out "city" and just modify "state" to see all allocations in a given province, or blank them both and just put something in for "call" to see a specific station.

- Trip

Thanks. Congrats on the new license!

Stupidity reigns at WNEO. Like I said before, if you donated in the past or plan on doing so, DON'T. Don't help fund someone who cannot properly broadcast in high definition.


Yep, because it'll always be like this, and it can't possibly be a temporary technical problem, and they'll never change it, no matter what...they just want to frustrate HD viewers. It's their mission to tick people off!

nickdawg, I've got a deal for you.

Send your complaint above - copy and paste it if need be - to WNEO/WEAO in E-Mail. Give 'em a few days to respond. If they don't, or if their response isn't satisfactory, I promise to stop calling you out on this.

Here, I'll make it easy for you:

http://westernreservepublicmedia.org/reach.htm

There are E-Mail links (I'm guessing the one for "Programming Questions" would be appropriate), phone numbers and even a mailing address on that page. They couldn't make it easier for you to reach them if they drove to your house and knocked on your door.

Do it. Share what they say, please.

Your above statement is about as ridiculous as calling for an advertiser boycott of channel 19, and we KNOW they have problems that they are not addressing.

Repeating an earlier question:


OK, a question on behalf of a relative of mine with DirecTV...are there any reputable satellite install guys who work in the Akron area?


We're looking specifically for one who can do an equipment upgrade for an existing customer.

And I'm looking at why I used an exclamation point instead of a question mark in the original message. I blame sleep. :D

I have a question which may be silly....but currently the Cleveland stations are on virtual stations, and their real digital stations, like CH 3 is on 17, but 3.1/2 virtual.

Once the transition occurs, will my TV display channel 3, as channel 17, or will there still be the 3.1/2 stations?

I have a question which may be silly....but currently the Cleveland stations are on virtual stations, and their real digital stations, like CH 3 is on 17, but 3.1/2 virtual.

Once the transition occurs, will my TV display channel 3, as channel 17, or will there still be the 3.1/2 stations?

It will say "3.1".... they will continue to labeled by their major channel... stations spent a fortune branding their stations as "Newschannel 5" or "Fox 8"... they didn't want to have to start over with "Newschannel 15"... actually "Fox 8" wouldn't have a problem. You get the idea. PSIP data.

Repeating an earlier question:



We're looking specifically for one who can do an equipment upgrade for an existing customer.

And I'm looking at why I used an exclamation point instead of a question mark in the original message. I blame sleep. :D

From what I've been reading about early market shutoffs and even here, if someone knew how to install antennas, they could make a fortune in the next year or so. DTV requires an outside antenna in many cases.

Can't help you with your sat dish query... sorry. If you find someone, please share.

It will say "3.1".... they will continue to labeled by their major channel... stations spent a fortune branding their stations as "Newschannel 5" or "Fox 8"... they didn't want to have to start over with "Newschannel 15"... actually "Fox 8" wouldn't have a problem. You get the idea. PSIP data.

The DTV transition would be the perfect time for "19 Action News" to totally change their image and rebrand, possibly using their new home on channel 10. Channel 19: 1986-2009. Perfect time to move on and change since that Action News format has been so successful!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The DTV transition would be the perfect time for "19 Action News" to totally change their image and rebrand, possibly using their new home on channel 10. Channel 19: 1986-2009. Perfect time to move on and change since that Action News format has been so successful!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

How can you not love Action News with the screaming weather man.....I just waiting for him to stroke out on tv...........

DIGITAL TV SOFT TEST: We've been railing about this for so long, we're wondering if they did it just to shut us up.

The Ohio Association of Broadcasters has lined up TV stations statewide for an analog shutoff "soft test", on December 17th from 7:30-7:35 PM, two months before the "real thing". Stations will air a five minute interruption alerting analog viewers that they need to take action before February 17th to avoid losing their signal.

Cincinnati Enquirer TV/radio guru John Kiesewetter has more in his blog. (We can't get the link to work in Firefox 3.0, so either use Internet Explorer or another browser if you're in the same boat...or use the "Blogs and Forums" > "Entertainment Blogs" menu to get to Kiese on that junk-laden, piece of crap website.)

We're just guessing here, but it could look similar to this video (YouTube) from the Washington DC market. We've seen the exact same video airing in at least one other market, and we believe it's probably being given to local TV stations by the NAB or some other trade group to use in this testing.

But viewers in Ohio's TV markets will also be directed to a local phone bank if they have any questions about the transition.

In Cleveland, we hear the phone bank will be hosted at ideaStream PBS affiliate WVIZ/25...an oddity, when you consider that WVIZ's temporary digital signal can be seen (without cable) by roughly a few thousand lucky souls in southern Cuyahoga County...

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2008/12/wrapping-up-decembers-first-week.html

Looks like December 17th will be the day we will have a CONFIRMED answer of whether or not TWC needs to upgrade their SDTV local channels(which are still the ANALOG feeds from the affiliates).

Well it sounds like you are noticing some minor picture degradation. My local analogs are simply not watchable at times. Multipath looking images, audio background noise, extremely grainy picture. The analogs beyond the locals seem to get progressively better the higher up the ch #'s, going from grainy but watchable to almost digital quality.

Then, couple hours later, all of the analogs are crystal clear........but for how long???? :confused:
Hey toby - I wanted to let you know that I had a tech out to my house today and it looks like the cable coming from the box into my house was kinked/cracked. After repairing the faulty cable, the channels are all notably sharper and my Internet download speed is over 8,000 kbps (before the fix it topped out at around 6,000 kbps).

You may want to have WOW out to diagnose. What you describe sounds like it could be caused by a degenerative cable.

Geez, I can't wait----Channel 19.1234567584932263547162534 NEWS!
JJK

How can you not love Action News with the screaming weather man.....I just waiting for him to stroke out on tv...........

Jeff T. is the only weather person in Cleveland that reads the computer outputs and gives storm warning 2 or 3 days before the other rip and read people get to it.

Any D* people trying to watch the Cavs game tonight?

The FSN-OH HD game only channel (660-1) isn't showing the game in HD. It's only available on channel 660 in lowly SD. What the heck is going on???

Any D* people trying to watch the Cavs game tonight?

The FSN-OH HD game only channel (660-1) isn't showing the game in HD. It's only available on channel 660 in lowly SD. What the heck is going on???

Nevermind, according to the link below, 65 of the Cavs 70 games being broadcast by FSN are scheduled to be in HD. Evidently tonight is 1 of the 5 times it's not scheduled to be in HD....

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5894594

The DTV transition would be the perfect time for "19 Action News" to totally change their image and rebrand, possibly using their new home on channel 10. Channel 19: 1986-2009. Perfect time to move on and change since that Action News format has been so successful!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Look, sure there set is atrocious to look at but come on, their news itself is by far at least good for a laugh.

I watch FOX 8 all the time and I just don't know what they consider to be news. I'd say that 20% of their newscast is really news and the rest is fluff pieces and promotion of American Idol.

And their morning show? Why oh why in the world do they need two girls? The evening broadcast really irritates me when they do their top ten cout down and somebody writes about a story they wrote, like the deer with the pumpkin stuck on his head and they just read his question. What did happen? Answer the guy, you think he just wants it read on the show not to be answered?

All local news suck. They all just suck in different ways.

I watch FOX 8 all the time and I just don't know what they consider to be news. I'd say that 20% of their newscast is really news and the rest is fluff pieces and promotion of American Idol.


All local news suck. They all just suck in different ways.

hahahaha :p:p:p:p

You watch FOX and you're making fun of 19? :confused::confused::confused: FOX is just as bad(sometimes even worse) than 19. Both are flashy, tabloid crap with obnoxious graphics and people. Both use extreme sensationalism(19's "Are the browns for sale?" ; 8's "Is Elvis alive?"). Plus FOX is, well FOX!! Plus I despise their global warming denier evening meteorologist. FOX is also responsible for almost every thing over the last ten years that has soiled the profession of journalism.

Although occasionally I will turn on "The O'LIElly Factor" when I need a good laugh!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

hahahaha :p:p:p:p

You watch FOX and you're making fun of 19? :confused::confused::confused: FOX is just as bad(sometimes even worse) than 19. Both are flashy, tabloid crap with obnoxious graphics and people. Both use extreme sensationalism(19's "Are the browns for sale?" ; 8's "Is Elvis alive?"). Plus FOX is, well FOX!! Plus I despise their global warming denier evening meteorologist. FOX is also responsible for almost every thing over the last ten years that has soiled the profession of journalism.

Although occasionally I will turn on "The O'LIElly Factor" when I need a good laugh!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

The only reason I watch FOX is because it's the only local news on in the morning. Yes, I can put on channel 3 and the Today show and probably get just what I need from there local breaks but my wife likes things to stay the same and she would start saying "Who are these people in my house (it would take her a day or two to notice)?:rolleyes:

I like channel 3 on the weekends. And the FOX news channel with their conservative outlook was very laughable, specially over the last years. Even they stopped trying to defend Bush.:D

Nickdawg:
I receive OTA 25, 25.1 solid as a rock. 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, are solid but there is a lot of pixelation on fades, movement, and the quality is generally in the "fair to poor" range. 25.9 is ok but I never listen to it.
JJK

Nickdawg:
I receive OTA 25, 25.1 solid as a rock. 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, are solid but there is a lot of pixelation on fades, movement, and the quality is generally in the "fair to poor" range. 25.9 is ok but I never listen to it.
JJK

You must have one hell of a big antenna to get 25.1 "solid as a rock".
I'm probably 5 miles closer than Twinsburg and I have an amplified, omni-directional, outdoor antenna, above my chimney, two story house. Result is that 25.1 is not even available 70% of the time, remaining 30% when I get a *glimmer* of a signal it's continuous audio & video drops. :(

Granted, my antenna is on the smaller side as a 23" platter/saucer shape.

hahahaha :p:p:p:p

You watch FOX and you're making fun of 19? :confused::confused::confused: FOX is just as bad(sometimes even worse) than 19. Both are flashy, tabloid crap with obnoxious graphics and people. Both use extreme sensationalism(19's "Are the browns for sale?" ; 8's "Is Elvis alive?"). Plus FOX is, well FOX!! Plus I despise their global warming denier evening meteorologist. FOX is also responsible for almost every thing over the last ten years that has soiled the profession of journalism.

Although occasionally I will turn on "The O'LIElly Factor" when I need a good laugh!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:DWell, if you despise "global warming denier" meteorologists, you better move to another DMA. Meteorologists from ALL 4 Cleveland stations agree that global warming is B.S.. All four were intervied on WTAM's Bob Frantz show after the PD published an article about the meteorologists consensus regarding the Al Gorian lie.

Also compairing broadcast FOX to FOX News Channel is illogical. I have NEVER heard anything on FOX 8 News that compairs to FNC - ever!

Any D* people trying to watch the Cavs game tonight?

The FSN-OH HD game only channel (660-1) isn't showing the game in HD. It's only available on channel 660 in lowly SD. What the heck is going on???

I was about to post the same thing since the game was SD only on Dish Network as well. What I don't understand is the Q is equiped with HD cameras and switching already, why not go 100% HD? I could understand an away game at an arena without HD, but not any game at the Q. BTW on one of the "ALT." channels the game was in HD but unavailable to my receiver (It probably was the Pacer's RSN coverage).

Well, if you despise "global warming denier" meteorologists, you better move to another DMA. Meteorologists from ALL 4 Cleveland stations agree that global warming is B.S.. All four were intervied on WTAM's Bob Frantz show after the PD published an article about the meteorologists consensus regarding the Al Gorian lie.

Also compairing broadcast FOX to FOX News Channel is illogical. I have NEVER heard anything on FOX 8 News that compairs to FNC - ever!

Really it is unfair to associate FOX 8 News with FNC. FNC deals with real news and FOX 8 is a mixture of news and God knows what.

I won't debate the global warming issue with you here, but holding Cleveland meteorologist as some kind of authority on it does not impress me nor does it give any credence to the idea of if global warming is indeed an issue or not.

Cleveland TV meteorologists haven't a clue as to how the Earths climate functions. They report weather conditions and that's it. "Weather" and "Climate" are two different functional categorys, the first thing you learn when you are a scientist.
JJK

Toby 10:
My antenna is a DC-9000, 177" long VHF/UHF, 30 ft RG6 lead in with 2 splitters and no amplifiers. I tried three different amplifiers and the results were poor. It is fixed in direction between channel 25 analog and 23 analog. 49.1 is pretty solid but does give problems at times. 67.1 is the weakest and gives problems about 50% of the time. The antenna is about 3 ft. above the chimney and aiming through a huge amount of trees. I am located about 3/4 of the way up a hill.
JJK

My antenna is a DC-9000, 177" long VHF/UHF

Is this a typo? A 15-foot antenna? If so, you should be able to pick up LPTV signals from Mars.... :)

(Sorry - I'm in a nit-picking mode right now.)

mike

Is this a typo? A 15-foot antenna? If so, you should be able to pick up LPTV signals from Mars.... :)

(Sorry - I'm in a nit-picking mode right now.)

mike

Based on his ability to get 25.1 as a solid signal, from that distance, it wouldn't surprise me a bit. :cool:

Based on his ability to get 25.1 as a solid signal, from that distance, it wouldn't surprise me a bit. :cool:

Well, if he is in Cuyahoga Falls then that is still pretty amazing IMHO. That's a pretty good distance from Cleveland and WVIZ's transmitting problems are well documented.

I'm no expert on OTA but I do know that's a heck of a job to pull that channel in all the way from Cuyahoga Falls.

Well, if he is in Cuyahoga Falls then that is still pretty amazing IMHO. That's a pretty good distance from Cleveland and WVIZ's transmitting problems are well documented.

I'm no expert on OTA but I do know that's a heck of a job to pull that channel in all the way from Cuyahoga Falls.

His profile says Twinsburg, Cuyahoga Falls would be even further.

His profile says Twinsburg, Cuyahoga Falls would be even further.

My bad, I was looking at mnowlins post, a little confusion.

Yes I'd say being in Twinsburg would be a bit more beneficial. I think where I live in Bainbridge Twp with the hills and trees around me I'd need a 15 foot antenna just to pick up any channels. Hence cable.....

Hookbill:
I used to live in Spring Valley in 1957 before they built the bridge and you had to go down Crackel/Haskins road the back way to get home. At that time I had a Heathkit TV with another huge antenna (VHF) with RG-8 50 ohm cable and 20db of pad to keep the tv from overloading. The antenna was just at the peak of the roof on the ranch style house. There were also tons of trees that we paid extra for when we bought the house for $13,000.00 (no garage) and they all eventually died. I later rented an apartment in Chagrin Falls and hung that huge antenna from the living room ceiling.
PS: If you lived at Beacon Hill you would have an un-obstructed shot OTA to all the stations.
JJK

Hookbill:
I used to live in Spring Valley in 1957 before they built the bridge and you had to go down Crackel/Haskins road the back way to get home. At that time I had a Heathkit TV with another huge antenna (VHF) with RG-8 50 ohm cable and 20db of pad to keep the tv from overloading. The antenna was just at the peak of the roof on the ranch style house. There were also tons of trees that we paid extra for when we bought the house for $13,000.00 (no garage) and they all eventually died. I later rented an apartment in Chagrin Falls and hung that huge antenna from the living room ceiling.
JJK

If you can remember 1957 then you're probably older then I am.:) The earliest memories I have go back to around that time when I was 4 and my Dad took me to the Los Angeles Coliseum to see the Dodgers. We parked the car somewhere and took a trolly to the Coliseum. My dad brought in a bottle of booze with him into the ball park.......if you could call that thing a ball park. It was at that time he told me, "son, you will be a Dodger fan.";)

I wouldn't have any idea about antenna's or anything else.

Has anyone else noticed an increase in signal strength on WVIZ OTA this weekend? The meter on my STB had been around 41-45 (out of 100, other locals are at 95), but this weekend, it's been around 78-82.

Yes, WOIO, I know you have a stupid post-game show...and you have to take the game out of HD to tell us with an onscreen crawl at the start of the second half.

Do it again, and I won't watch the stupid post-game show!

Wait...the Browns stink so bad, I might stop watching the game before the post-game show even starts. :D

Yes, WOIO, I know you have a stupid post-game show...and you have to take the game out of HD to tell us with an onscreen crawl at the start of the second half.

Do it again, and I won't watch the stupid post-game show!

Wait...the Browns stink so bad, I might stop watching the game before the post-game show even starts. :D


I use to be able to pick this HD channel up after doing a QAM scan .but its no longer on 19.1..any idea where they moved it to

Has anyone else noticed an increase in signal strength on WVIZ OTA this weekend? The meter on my STB had been around 41-45 (out of 100, other locals are at 95), but this weekend, it's been around 78-82.

Nope. No better here.

I use to be able to pick this HD channel up after doing a QAM scan .but its no longer on 19.1..any idea where they moved it to

You've asked this question a few dozen times before, eh? :D

I'm not going to answer, because A) I don't know the answer and B) no one else here or in the Erie thread apparently does, either.

But just a general point of information.

QAM channels, especially those from out of your local market, come and go sometimes like the wind. Even the locals occasionally get moved around, since TWC and other cable companies are not advertising those channels at all (they want you to get a box).

So, if you have an unusual QAM channel, like Cleveland affiliates in Erie, you have it until it goes away, and it may or may not ever come back. It's a side effect, not provided on purpose. (If it was, they'd map it to a channel on a digital cable box.)

You can ask this question over, and over, and over again...and you're probably not going to get an answer. But that's just a general guideline.

You've asked this question a few dozen times before, eh? :D

I'm not going to answer, because A) I don't know the answer and B) no one else here or in the Erie thread apparently does, either.

But just a general point of information.

QAM channels, especially those from out of your local market, come and go sometimes like the wind. Even the locals occasionally get moved around, since TWC and other cable companies are not advertising those channels at all (they want you to get a box).

So, if you have an unusual QAM channel, like Cleveland affiliates in Erie, you have it until it goes away, and it may or may not ever come back. It's a side effect, not provided on purpose. (If it was, they'd map it to a channel on a digital cable box.)

You can ask this question over, and over, and over again...and you're probably not going to get an answer. But that's just a general guideline.

I know..just frustrated I was able to get channel 19.1...in Erie and ever since the browns NFL Network game .channels 19.1 and 43.1 are gone..

just thought someone on this side might know where it ended up or what happened to it..

Even though the browns suck...I still want to watch them when the game isn't on in Erie

You can ask this question over, and over, and over again...and you're probably not going to get an answer. But that's just a general guideline.

In ErieMarty's case he is persistent in asking questions that nobody can answer.

Don't take offense ErieMarty, it's OK. I noticed the other day you asked (again) if anybody knew of any new HD channels.;). I was almost tempted to say why yes, on December 25 we will have FX, USA, and SPIKE in HD and say I had a new contact but that would be cruel and unusual punishment, I just couldn't do it to you.:)

WOW, was Hookbill right a few weeks back about how awful the sound is on WBNX. I had PCM-only sound for the last three weeks(my box rebooted this week). Now I'm watching "Drew Carey" and I'm getting WKYC style sound(claims to be 3/2.1 but only L/R work) and the bass channel is oppressive. I had to change my settings just for this to be watchable. Now I'm usually a guy who likes bass, especially in my music, but the lows are too much on WBNX. It's drowning out the dialogue.

I know..just frustrated I was able to get channel 19.1...in Erie and ever since the browns NFL Network game .channels 19.1 and 43.1 are gone..

just thought someone on this side might know where it ended up or what happened to it..

Even though the browns suck...I still want to watch them when the game isn't on in Erie

Marty, asking the question a half-dozen times or so in each thread isn't going to make anyone answer it quicker. :) I'm maybe a bit oversensitive to your repeated questions because I do also read the Erie thread.

And you nailed it with your last sentence: "when the game isn't on in Erie". The QAM channels, as I said, are incidental. The channels the cable companies want you to watch are on the box (or analog cable).

You only get Cleveland channels on QAM up there at all because the city system, I believe it is, is on the same network as the Akron/Canton systems. In theory, they should probably be filtering out all of the Cleveland market channels on QAM if they aren't offering them either on digital cable (box) or analog.

You should feel fortunate that you were able to get 19 on QAM *OUT OF MARKET* for as long as you did, and if it comes back, cross all your fingers and toes that it stays along.

Out of market stations on QAM are an ACCIDENT, not something TWC delivers on purpose.

I had to change my settings just for this to be watchable. Now I'm usually a guy who likes bass, especially in my music, but the lows are too much on WBNX. It's drowning out the dialogue.

You should organize a boycott of WBNX's advertisers, since They Don't Know How To Do Digital Audio. so they shouldn't be supported.

:D

You should organize a boycott of WBNX's advertisers, since They Don't Know How To Do Digital Audio. so they shouldn't be supported.

:D

What doesn't make sense is if you download a CW show from bit torrent in 720p, and yes I know people say it isn't true HD, it does light up Dolby and sounds exactly like Dolby 5.1 should.

It's almost like they have somebody doing the sound engineering who has no idea how to do it.

It sounded slightly better on the last Smallville I watched. I actually heard a door slam out of my right rear speaker all by itself. But it still not right.

What doesn't make sense is if you download a CW show from bit torrent in 720p, and yes I know people say it isn't true HD, it does light up Dolby and sounds exactly like Dolby 5.1 should.

It's almost like they have somebody doing the sound engineering who has no idea how to do it.

It sounded slightly better on the last Smallville I watched. I actually heard a door slam out of my right rear speaker all by itself. But it still not right.


How are you getting 5.1 sound? Did you burn it to DVD before watching it? I only get stereo sound out of my computer.

How are you getting 5.1 sound? Did you burn it to DVD before watching it? I only get stereo sound out of my computer.

I'll venture a guess - he transferred the BT to his TiVo...

What doesn't make sense is if you download a CW show from bit torrent in 720p, and yes I know people say it isn't true HD, it does light up Dolby and sounds exactly like Dolby 5.1 should.

From what I've learned, people who transcode 1-hour 6GB recorded files down to the standard 350MB BT format generally focus on the video part of the stream, leaving the audio portion as-is. I haven't done the math, but I suspect that there's not much to be gained (relatively) in converting 5.1 down to 2-channel for BT downloads.

I'll venture a guess - he transferred the BT to his TiVo...

That's correct. With either PyTiVo or TiVo Desktop Plus via PC this is possible. I have a formula to do it with my Mac but I haven't tried it yet.

Just another thing TiVo can do that those other DVR's can't.

From what I've learned, people who transcode 1-hour 6GB recorded files down to the standard 350MB BT format generally focus on the video part of the stream, leaving the audio portion as-is. I haven't done the math, but I suspect that there's not much to be gained (relatively) in converting 5.1 down to 2-channel for BT downloads.

I see more and more offerings now of 720p network shows, and more people are leeching and seeding them. They run about 6GB or so which is right around what a regular HD show is for an hour.

And you are correct about the audio on those 350 mb shows they are in stereo but if you load it directly to your TiVo you will still get a 16:9 picture.

When I had the SA 8300 I had to download it to my computer, then I used a program to change the .avi file to DVD format and burn to DVD. I'd say about 5% of the time the audio would be way out of synch. I have the Prison Break and Sara Conner Chronicles downloaded somewhere. Maybe if I get a chance today I'll get the formula out for setting those up for transfer off the mac. If I can't I'll send them back to my old PC and just turn on PyTiVo again and do it that way.

Yes, WOIO, I know you have a stupid post-game show...and you have to take the game out of HD to tell us with an onscreen crawl at the start of the second half.

Do it again, and I won't watch the stupid post-game show!

Wait...the Browns stink so bad, I might stop watching the game before the post-game show even starts. :D

ha! I came to post this very same thing! They've done this all season. How is it possible that every other station in the world has the ability to show a scroller over an HD feed yet WOIO can't seem to do it without switching to SD! So lame, but then again it seems they were always behind the times such as not having DD5.1 while everyone else had it.

Yes, WOIO, I know you have a stupid post-game show...and you have to take the game out of HD to tell us with an onscreen crawl at the start of the second half.

Do it again, and I won't watch the stupid post-game show!

Wait...the Browns stink so bad, I might stop watching the game before the post-game show even starts. :DShucks, I missed that event. I watch the Browns games on WKBN-DT :p to you WOIO!

Toby 10:
My antenna is a DC-9000, 177" long VHF/UHF, 30 ft RG6 lead in with 2 splitters and no amplifiers. I tried three different amplifiers and the results were poor. It is fixed in direction between channel 25 analog and 23 analog. 49.1 is pretty solid but does give problems at times. 67.1 is the weakest and gives problems about 50% of the time. The antenna is about 3 ft. above the chimney and aiming through a huge amount of trees. I am located about 3/4 of the way up a hill.
JJK
I hate to tell you this but your antenna is aimed at no-man's land. 25 analog is in North Roaylton, 23 is in West Akron. No other stations from either Cleveland or Akron are located in that direction. Aiming in that direction would give you the same lousy reception on all the local stations. (wait a minute you are probably aimed at Mansfield so WMFD-DT on ch 12 might come in if the atmosphere is just right)

Shucks, I missed that event. I watch the Browns games on WKBN-DT :p to you WOIO!

Holding my indoor Philips amplified antenna and pointing it out the office window here, in just the right direction, is getting me WKBN-DT fairly regularly these days.

Of course, it's winter, the tall trees in that general direction near my property have thinned out, and the position requires me to hold my arm twisted up in the air. :D

I'm still contemplating trying for an outdoor antenna on the deck of my condo, though I won't even need that for all the Cleveland locals once 3 scoots to 17 digitally, and whenever 25/26 goes full power.

I'd basically be spending the money on the antenna in the hope of getting at least one Youngstown station (WKBN) regularly.

I hate to tell you this but your antenna is aimed at no-man's land. 25 analog is in North Roaylton, 23 is in West Akron. No other stations from either Cleveland or Akron are located in that direction. Aiming in that direction would give you the same lousy reception on all the local stations. (wait a minute you are probably aimed at Mansfield so WMFD-DT on ch 12 might come in if the atmosphere is just right)

If he's aiming at 23, that's pretty much the same, nearly exact location of 49/50. 23 is off Wadsworth Road near Romig/V. Odom/Wooster Rd. north of Rolling Acres, and 49 is not that terribly far away off Cleveland-Massillon Road in Copley.

WDLI-DT is right there just down the hill from WVPX.

Holding my indoor Philips amplified antenna and pointing it out the office window here, in just the right direction, is getting me WKBN-DT fairly regularly these days.

Of course, it's winter, the tall trees in that general direction near my property have thinned out, and the position requires me to hold my arm twisted up in the air. :D

I'm still contemplating trying for an outdoor antenna on the deck of my condo, though I won't even need that for all the Cleveland locals once 3 scoots to 17 digitally, and whenever 25/26 goes full power.

I'd basically be spending the money on the antenna in the hope of getting at least one Youngstown station (WKBN) regularly.



If he's aiming at 23, that's pretty much the same, nearly exact location of 49/50. 23 is off Wadsworth Road near Romig/V. Odom/Wooster Rd. north of Rolling Acres, and 49 is not that terribly far away off Cleveland-Massillon Road in Copley.

WDLI-DT is right there just down the hill from WVPX.

1.) WKBN-DT has a mamoth coverage area. You don't need the leaves to fall off the trees to get it. I get it 24/7 365 days/year from the shadow of the Cleveland towers! You don't even need an amplified antenna. All you need is a good outdoor antenna aimed roughtly due East (depending on your location maybe a little bit N or S of due east). They have the tallest tower and plenty of power!

Here is their coverage area: WKBN-DT from Downtown Cleveland to Downtown Pittsburgh! (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html)

The only areas inside the circle to not get WKBN-DT are blocked by nearby terrain (especially Lake County who needs an alternate CBS the most due to CFPL in London Ontario).

2.) Reread the original post I quoted from, he's aiming between WVPX and WVIZ from Twinsburg. That's a hole big enough to swallow Medina. The nearest TV station in that direction is WMFD-DT on ch 12 - and that signal would never reach Twinsburg anyway. While antennas have, for lack of a technical term, a "fudge factor", the distance between the Cleveland and Akron tower sites from a location roughly half-way between and to the East, is far too wide to split the difference.

1.) WKBN-DT has a mamoth coverage area. You don't need the leaves to fall off the trees to get it.

Well, now, pretty much, I do. The trees are close enough that they cause a problem.


The only areas inside the circle to not get WKBN-DT are blocked by nearby terrain (especially Lake County who needs an alternate CBS the most due to CFPL in London Ontario).


I think there are possibly other terrain issues between here (former Northampton Twp. near Cuy. Falls) and Youngstown, no?

I just want to be able to "set and forget" some sort of outdoor antenna on the deck, and be assured of getting WKBN-DT all (or nearly all) the time. I'm not going to spend the money if I get WKBN less than 20% of the time.


2.) Reread the original post I quoted from, he's aiming between WVPX and WVIZ from Twinsburg. That's a hole big enough to swallow Medina.


Yeah, I saw that...and I was basically suggesting that he aim AT WVPX, and maybe nudge just a little bit (a very small nudge) to try to improve WEAO-DT.

Michael P 2341:
Sometimes I have a communication problem. I miss-stated. I should have said the antenna is aimed just a tad off 25 so that 23 would be steady but a bit blurry. If I aimed the antenna directly at 25 channel 23 would almost dis-appear. This translated to about 1/2" of rotation. I have no idea where 23 is located nor 49. Occasionally Toledo 11 and 13 will boom in with some ducting. And while this happens if you do a rescan the digital channels from Toledo will screw up the digitals located here and you have to wait for the Toledo channels to weaken to do a rescan to set things right again.
JJK

hey nickdawg, I'd like to hear from you on a follow up on the issue about missed recordings. Still having any troubles there?

hey nickdawg, I'd like to hear from you on a follow up on the issue about missed recordings. Still having any troubles there?

Is it safe to come out yet? :ph34r: :ph34r:

All my recordings have been OK lately. I record Becker and Married with Children in the early hours and they've been fine the past few weeks. Only once last Sunday it didn't work when I recorded Mw/C and Good Morning America. I'm not sure what the problem was, but I guess it fixed itself. ANd the Dolby audio is back :( after the box finally rebooted. And it went a whole THREE WEEKS with no reboot!! That's unhead of with Navigator!:D

SDV is also still there. I discovered some new channels in the 860s. They're all shopping channels and I tried watching them the other day. All I can say is SDV is a big turd dragon!!! Some of the channels have blank screens or say "This Channel Is Currently Unavailable", "Please Try Again Later". WTF? Is that going to happen once SDV goes live on the regular lineup? Will I have to put up with "unavailable channels"? That's bulls...! And what about when they start putting HD on SDV. Sorry, you don't get to watch the Indians on STO HD, SDV is currently on a beach in the Bahamas. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

I just want to be able to "set and forget" some sort of outdoor antenna on the deck, and be assured of getting WKBN-DT all (or nearly all) the time.

250' tower????? :)

All I can say is SDV is a big turd dragon!!! Some of the channels have blank screens or say "This Channel Is Currently Unavailable", "Please Try Again Later". WTF? Is that going to happen once SDV goes live on the regular lineup? Will I have to put up with "unavailable channels"? That's bulls...! And what about when they start putting HD on SDV. Sorry, you don't get to watch the Indians on STO HD, SDV is currently on a beach in the Bahamas. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Current TWC implementation issues aside (and there are many, including their choice of using the SA8300 boxes), this will always be a potential issue with SDV. The only way to avoid this would be for TWC to have one SDV slot available for every SDV channel available in a given distribution area. Any less than this would mean that if SDV traffic is heavy in that area, somebody's going to get a "channel unavailable" message. If they do make enough slots available, it pretty much destroys any bandwidth savings, making SDV pointless in the first place.

Edit: There is a situation where this wouldn't be true: if TWC had more SDV channels available than the total number of tuners in the area, and they allocated one SDV slot for each tuner. VERY unlikely.

...Big Turd Dragon... :DLOL:D

Current TWC implementation issues aside (and there are many, including their choice of using the SA8300 boxes), this will always be a potential issue with SDV. The only way to avoid this would be for TWC to have one SDV slot available for every SDV channel available in a given distribution area. Any less than this would mean that if SDV traffic is heavy in that area, somebody's going to get a "channel unavailable" message. If they do make enough slots available, it pretty much destroys any bandwidth savings, making SDV pointless in the first place.

Edit: There is a situation where this wouldn't be true: if TWC had more SDV channels available than the total number of tuners in the area, and they allocated one SDV slot for each tuner. VERY unlikely.

Well here's the thing: Currently they have not actually 'activated' SDV in terms of what the large majority of the public is going to be using. In addition, until they actually get it 100% up, they have to keep the traditional channels up which ultimately cuts down on what SDV QAM slots they have available to use.

Once they get SDV completely up and running to the point that it is pushed out to every single box and the traditional channel numbers are pulling from SDV frequencies on channels they have actually pooled into the SDV lineup, I'm pretty sure these supposed 'problems' will be negated.

Fact is right now we are essentially seeing and using what one could consider a 'beta' or 'alpha' version while TWC irons out all the kinks. It's just a side effect that those of us savvy enough can actually get in on it at this stage.

All in all, the whole idea for SDV's major bandwidth savings is taking the nearly dead channels such as all these infomercial channels for example and putting them into the SDV lineup where they can ultimately cut them out of the aggregated bandwidth usage 99% of the time when they aren't being watched. More commonly watched channels like the premium movie channels and your locals will remain on the traditional system because there would be virtually no gain there moving them to SDV.

Considering we are talking about TWC, I'm surprised that they didn't beta or alpha test SDV live on the regular channels(I know STO HD is supposed to be SDV one day). They tested navigator on the unsuspecting public(and the OCAP version isn't even fit to be an alpha test!).

'Big Turd Dragon'===I knew that would get some attention!! :D:D

Is it safe to come out yet? :ph34r: :ph34r:

All my recordings have been OK lately. I record Becker and Married with Children in the early hours and they've been fine the past few weeks. Only once last Sunday it didn't work when I recorded Mw/C and Good Morning America. I'm not sure what the problem was, but I guess it fixed itself. ANd the Dolby audio is back :( after the box finally rebooted. And it went a whole THREE WEEKS with no reboot!! That's unhead of with Navigator!:D

SDV is also still there. I discovered some new channels in the 860s. They're all shopping channels and I tried watching them the other day. All I can say is SDV is a big turd dragon!!! Some of the channels have blank screens or say "This Channel Is Currently Unavailable", "Please Try Again Later". WTF? Is that going to happen once SDV goes live on the regular lineup? Will I have to put up with "unavailable channels"? That's bulls...! And what about when they start putting HD on SDV. Sorry, you don't get to watch the Indians on STO HD, SDV is currently on a beach in the Bahamas. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Just like when your DVR gets an update it reboots. TiVo does too.

However since I've gotten the new update on my HD TiVo I've seen some issues. The way TiVo does it is they have a bunch of people who volunteer to be beta testers and they test them on their machines before release. Then when they release it they do "small" release initially and two or three weeks later they throw "the big switch."

I don't know why but I've been turning up on that "small" release group and I've never liked that. This time I got it on my HD TiVo. It caused it to crash and it took 2 additional reboots before it fixed correctly. It worked from that point on.

Saturday they threw "the big switch" and my S3 got the update. No problems, it went smooth as silk. But that also put me at alert because after they do the "small" update and throw the "big switch" they then send the update again out to the other TiVos that got the "small" update. You can see this in the serial # of the TiVo in the System Information screen, the first update has a letter on it.

So sure enough on Sunday morning I saw my HD TiVo had crashed and it took two reboots to get it going (again). Everything appeared to be fine until yesterday when I went to move "Hero's" from the HD TiVo to the S3. The S3 was taking forever to load the shows on the menu. I thought perhaps a poor network connection on my wireless network but no, it was the HD TiVo slower then a snail. After playing around with it again a bit and seeing it was slow in every area it crashed and rebooted itself.

As of right now all appers OK.

Point is and I say this for nickdawgs benefit that even TiVo's DVR's do crash and need reboot despite what Inundated says I've seen it happen to my D-TiVos as well.

They are machines, not perfect. But they don't miss recordings.;)

Point is and I say this for nickdawgs benefit that even TiVo's DVR's do crash and need reboot despite what Inundated says I've seen it happen to my D-TiVos as well.

They are machines, not perfect. But they don't miss recordings.;)

I've had my S2 standalone now for years, and I don't believe it has EVER crashed, per se. It's rebooted, but I'm pretty sure all of those were as a result of software updates overnight.

The S2 SA is solid as a rock. I can't speak for the DTiVos, and the S3/HDs.

I've had my S2 standalone now for years, and I don't believe it has EVER crashed, per se. It's rebooted, but I'm pretty sure all of those were as a result of software updates overnight.

The S2 SA is solid as a rock. I can't speak for the DTiVos, and the S3/HDs.

Sometimes I bring this on myself, not being patient when it says "please wait" and confusing the heck out of the TiVo. But not in the last couple of incidents.

But TiVo is so smart it usually fixes itself. I'll bet I don't see this problem again - until next update. I think part of the problem the the rebooting after update on the TiVo HD is that the television is off and TiVo gets confused about the hdmi cord. It's attatched to a HDMI to DVI adapter and we started having problems with this about 3 updates or so ago.

Saturday they threw "the big switch" and my S3 got the update. No problems, it went smooth as silk. But that also put me at alert because after they do the "small" update and throw the "big switch" they then send the update again out to the other TiVos that got the "small" update. You can see this in the serial # of the TiVo in the System Information screen, the first update has a letter on it.

Hmmm... This news has me concerned because I still haven't received the 11.xxx update on my THD. I've been anxious to try out the new Netflix stuff that comes with the update. I guess I'll give it another night before I have to give them a call.

I think part of the problem the the rebooting after update on the TiVo HD is that the television is off and TiVo gets confused about the hdmi cord. It's attatched to a HDMI to DVI adapter and we started having problems with this about 3 updates or so ago.

I'd blame this one on the HDMI, and/or TiVo's implementation of it.

Not a problem with my SD TiVo S2 standalone, which uses good old fashioned S-video... which has no copy protection bits. :D

Hmmm... This news has me concerned because I still haven't received the 11.xxx update on my THD. I've been anxious to try out the new Netflix stuff that comes with the update. I guess I'll give it another night before I have to give them a call.

Just try to force a call. Calling them won't help, you'll get it when they want to give it to you. It's a roll of the dice, no rhyme or reason for it.

I'd blame this one on the HDMI, and/or TiVo's implementation of it.

Not a problem with my SD TiVo S2 standalone, which uses good old fashioned S-video... which has no copy protection bits. :D

I'm thrilled for you.:rolleyes:

I'm thrilled for you.:rolleyes:

Well, I can still record HD in two places: on my SA8000HD (admittedly, a POS), or on my computer with my ATSC USB tuner. I can even record it on my laptop, and display it on the HD set in the living room with a VGA cable.

But I stay with the S2 by default for my day-to-day stuff. It works, it's a TiVo, and most of what I record is not even in HD. I don't watch much current prime time, and for example, other shows I record (Daily Show/Colbert as examples) are not available in HD.

The only show I have even followed in prime time, CBS' "The Amazing Race", is also still in SD. If it ever flips to HD, like "Survivor" did, I can use either the DVR or the computer to record it.

Well, I can still record HD in two places: on my SA8000HD (admittedly, a POS), or on my computer with my ATSC USB tuner. I can even record it on my laptop, and display it on the HD set in the living room with a VGA cable.

But I stay with the S2 by default for my day-to-day stuff. It works, it's a TiVo, and most of what I record is not even in HD. I don't watch much current prime time, and for example, other shows I record (Daily Show/Colbert as examples) are not available in HD.

The only show I have even followed in prime time, CBS' "The Amazing Race", is also still in SD. If it ever flips to HD, like "Survivor" did, I can use either the DVR or the computer to record it.

There is no restrictions on HD local shows, as I'm sure your well aware of. And I record "The Amazing Race" on HD anyway for Dolby 5.1, which it does have even though it is SD. And it's not that faux Dolby.

And I really don't record that much stuff on regular digital except for TNTHD. So I'm not that restricted.

There is no restrictions on HD local shows, as I'm sure your well aware of. And I record "The Amazing Race" on HD anyway for Dolby 5.1, which it does have even though it is SD. And it's not that faux Dolby.

Yeah, but I'm using two speakers on the side of my HDTV...I don't have a HT audio setup. :D I do have "TAR" recording on the SA8000HD, though, in addition to the TiVo.

For the moment, I can't really afford even a discounted TiVo HD, so I plug along with my setup as described. If I *really* want something in HD, I can still record it.

Point is and I say this for nickdawgs benefit that even TiVo's DVR's do crash and need reboot despite what Inundated says I've seen it happen to my D-TiVos as well.

They are machines, not perfect. But they don't miss recordings.;)

Only difference is Navigator reboots for non-update reasons. Sometimes it just gets "stuck" and forces a reboot. With the OCAP version of Navigator that happened almost every day(multiple times on bad days). Then when I had Passport again, no reboots and errors were minimal.

So far with Navigator, we've had two updates. I can tell because the box in the bedroom clicks when it turns off and it was displaying a series of numbers and letters on the front display. When it did update, it must have been a background software update since I couldn't see any differences and no new features were added. Probably something to do with SDV.

Wow, thanks for sharing. I was very dubious of the claims that "Tivo is 100% perfect". They're all machines, they're all basically computers. Eventually a computer needs a reboot, especially if it's running Windows. ;)

Watching "According to Jim" on channel 5 HD there is some kind of "rumbling" noise in the bass. It's not part of the show, sounds like a problem. I remember reading about problems like this before. The normal channel on 5 sounds fine.

Also, I first noticed it during the early news at 5, the picture is out of focus. If you have a TV with little overscan you can see a black stripe at the bottom of the screen. The picture is pushed too far UP.

^Hasn't it been that way for like a year or so? ...or did they fix it and now it's back. I remember it was a problem when I was watching Lost last season.

^Hasn't it been that way for like a year or so? ...or did they fix it and now it's back. I remember it was a problem when I was watching Lost last season.

Which one? Channel 5 has soooo many problems? I know the black line was on last season too. Then they fixed it. You used to be able to see the blanking on all SD upconvert shows. Now, the picture is pushed up so fat, you can't see the blanking lines anymore.

Oh, I was referring to the the picture being shifted upward, thus causing the black bar at the bottom of the screen. It wasn't an SD upconvert when I saw it last year. It was during the airing of an HD show. I'm sure it was on many other shows too, I just don't watch enough to remember what they were. Just happened to remember seeing it on Lost.

Oh, I was referring to the the picture being shifted upward, thus causing the black bar at the bottom of the screen. It wasn't an SD upconvert when I saw it last year. It was during the airing of an HD show. I'm sure it was on many other shows too, I just don't watch enough to remember what they were. Just happened to remember seeing it on Lost.

It's on everything(SD and HD). What is on the SD upconverts is the blanking lines(white crap at the top of the screen). Since the picture is shifted up, it's cut off. I don't know why NETWORK HD shows(like Lost) are also shifted up. I saw that bar on Jim and Eli Stone tonight. It's also on during network and local commercials.

I'm done with that crap. I'm watching regular channel 5 right now. It's SD, but a HELL of a lot better than the HD channel. I'm now dreading when the SD channel is a mirror of the HD channel, as the problems will be on BOTH channels then. :eek:

^ I just don't understand how it could not be fixed in as long as a year or so :rolleyes:. Maybe they just don't get enough complaints on it.

^ I just don't understand how it could not be fixed in as long as a year or so :rolleyes:. Maybe they just don't get enough complaints on it.

It was fixed until today. Last night's "Boston Legal" looked fine. Today it's not fine. I think it was fixed some time over the summer since the end of Lost looked OK. I remember the season finale was the first episode of "Lost" I watched in HD that season. Before that, it was really bad. There was almost half a letterbox bar at the bottom of the screen.

^Hasn't it been that way for like a year or so? ...or did they fix it and now it's back. I remember it was a problem when I was watching Lost last season.

It comes and goes on 5. Wife noticed it first on one of her shows last season and we both noticed it on Lost last season. She was quick to notice it tonight...hopefully they fix it again soon. We watched the Desperate Housewives recording from Sunday and it didn't have the problem.

It's on everything(SD and HD). What is on the SD upconverts is the blanking lines(white crap at the top of the screen). Since the picture is shifted up, it's cut off. I don't know why NETWORK HD shows(like Lost) are also shifted up. I saw that bar on Jim and Eli Stone tonight. It's also on during network and local commercials........

I saw this ch 5 HD overscan at top of screen yesterday via WOW cable as well. Definitely coming from the source.

BTW: I had a WOW tech here yesterday and I asked him if WOW uses (or will in the future) SDV. He had no clue what I was asking and seemed quite interested in my explaining what it was. Maybe he just doesn't know or maybe it is not part of their future plans. Anyone know?

This might explain why TWC offers more HD ch's than does WOW. :(

Oh, I was referring to the the picture being shifted upward, thus causing the black bar at the bottom of the screen. It wasn't an SD upconvert when I saw it last year. It was during the airing of an HD show. I'm sure it was on many other shows too, I just don't watch enough to remember what they were. Just happened to remember seeing it on Lost.

It's been that way for a long time (probably over 2 years) on many of the HD shows and sports on WEWS ABC. I think I posted about it quite a while ago initially thinking it was a problem on my end. I know I saw it a few weeks ago so it's still there. Not sure if it went away for a while. No clue why they can't fix it.

FWIW I got a respose from WBNX head engineer. Heres: what he said:

I'm sorry for the delay but Engineering has double checked to make sure that we transmitting and receiving the Dolby Digital 5.1 over the air. This is the same signal that Time Warner should be using to re-broadcast. If you are still having problems during the CW programs that transmit in Dolby 5.1 please let us know. You may also need to contact Time Warner to make certain that they are passing the signal thru and not losing it in some conversion process.

Thanks for your patience and feed back.


Best regards, Don Richardson: Chief
Engineer

So I responded by directing him to this forum and nickdawg's last comment about how bad the sound was.

So he's trying to say, "everything fine here, maybe TW?" I think they need to take an actual listen, it's awful.

Think TWC gonna expand their HDTV offerings once TV moves to digital in Feb. 09? Their HDTV offerings are pretty lame right now.

When a svc tech was at our house to replace a bad box he mentioned w/ the bandwidth freed up by the move to all digital broadcasts TWC would be able to expand their HDTV channel lineups. I dunno the tech of whether that is possible/true.

I can't get Dish or DirectTv 'cuz of all the trees in our neighborhood/yard and FIOS ain't in our area.

Think TWC gonna expand their HDTV offerings once TV moves to digital in Feb. 09? Their HDTV offerings are pretty lame right now.

When a svc tech was at our house to replace a bad box he mentioned w/ the bandwidth freed up by the move to all digital broadcasts TWC would be able to expand their HDTV channel lineups. I dunno the tech of whether that is possible/true.

I can't get Dish or DirectTv 'cuz of all the trees in our neighborhood/yard and FIOS ain't in our area.

Here's a news flash for you. If you are in the Cleveland area you will never see FIOS. The reason for that is because Verizon would have to be a phone company in our area and we have either AT&T or Windstream. And if you're thinking about AT&T's U-Verse if you're in AT&T land you will need to call them to find out about availability.

Now as far as TW and trees, I hear you brother. I'm in the same boat. And no, I don't think the "digital deadline" will have any effect on TW HD offerings.

I don't know how long you've looked at this thread but TW will eventually initiate SDV (switched digital video) and when they do that we will probably see more channels, but from what I've seen around the country of areas of TW that have had it for sometime it is no where near the offerings of the Sat's.

If you don't know about SDV, Google is your friend or check out Wikipedia.

In several areas like NY and CA and several other states, TWC has over 45 HD channels not including locals, pay-HD (such as HBO) and local sport nets. Rochester's lineup is astounding. They have very close to as many as Dish Network's Turbo HD Platinum (their highest) which has around 45 or so as well. So by comparison to other TWC areas, Cleveland's HD lineup is pathetic. Not sure why they can offer so many in other states but not Cleveland. Even Columbus has a great HD lineup compared to Cleveland. I really do hope that when the SDV kicks in, they up our HD package substantially. Just to make everyone more irritated, here is rochester's Time Warner HD lineup. This would be great:

Included in Digital Tier
1000 -- Pay-Per-View HD^
1001 -- HD On Demand^
1007 -- WUHF HD (ch. 7; FOX)***
1008 -- WROC HD (ch. 8; CBS)
1010 -- WHEC HD (ch. 10; NBC)
1011 -- WXXI HD (ch. 11; PBS)
1012 -- Lifetime Movie Net HD^
1013 -- WHAM HD (ch. 13; ABC)
1015 -- Palladia HD^
1016 -- CW HD (ch. 16 CW WHAM)
1018 -- Disney Channel HD
1019 -- Toon Disney HD
1020 -- CNN HD^
1021 -- Fox News Channel HD^
1022 -- Fox Business Network HD^
1023 -- The Learning Channel HD^
1024 -- Science Channel HD^
1025 -- Hallmark Movie Channel HD^
1030 -- Discovery HD Theater
1031 -- ABC Family HD
1032 -- Cartoon HD^
1033 -- TNT HD
1035 -- Crime & Investigation HD^
1036 -- Discovery HD^
1037 -- A&E HD^
1038 -- Biography HD^
1039 -- ESPNU HD^
1040 -- The Travel Channel HD^
1041 -- ESPN News HD^
1042 -- The Outdoor Channel HD^
1043 -- MSG HD^
1044 -- NHL HD^****
1045 -- Food Network HD
1046 -- SportsNet NY HD
1047 -- YES HD
1048 -- VERSUS/ Golf HD
1049 -- TBS HD^
1052 -- ESPN HD
1053 -- ESPN2 HD
1055 -- National Geographic HD^
1056 -- HGTV HD^
1057 -- Planet Green HD^
1059 -- Tennis HD****^
1060 -- HBO HD**
1061 -- Showtime HD**
1062 -- Starz HD**^
1063 -- History Channel HD^
1064 -- Cinemax HD**^
1065 -- Speed HD^
1067 -- FX HD^
1068 -- Animal Planet HD^
1091 -- HD Showcase On Demand^

Included in HD Tier
1050 -- HD Net
1051 -- HD Net Movies
1054 -- Universal HD^
1069 -- MGM HD^

In several areas like NY and CA and several other states, TWC has over 45 HD channels not including locals, pay-HD (such as HBO) and local sport nets. Rochester's lineup is astounding. They have very close to as many as Dish Network's Turbo HD Platinum (their highest) which has around 45 or so as well. So by comparison to other TWC areas, Cleveland's HD lineup is pathetic. Not sure why they can offer so many in other states but not Cleveland. Even Columbus has a great HD lineup compared to Cleveland. I really do hope that when the SDV kicks in, they up our HD package substantially. Just to make everyone more irritated, here is rochester's Time Warner HD lineup. This would be great:

Included in Digital Tier
1000 -- Pay-Per-View HD^
1001 -- HD On Demand^
1007 -- WUHF HD (ch. 7; FOX)***
1008 -- WROC HD (ch. 8; CBS)
1010 -- WHEC HD (ch. 10; NBC)
1011 -- WXXI HD (ch. 11; PBS)
1012 -- Lifetime Movie Net HD^
1013 -- WHAM HD (ch. 13; ABC)
1015 -- Palladia HD^
1016 -- CW HD (ch. 16 CW WHAM)
1018 -- Disney Channel HD
1019 -- Toon Disney HD
1020 -- CNN HD^
1021 -- Fox News Channel HD^
1022 -- Fox Business Network HD^
1023 -- The Learning Channel HD^
1024 -- Science Channel HD^
1025 -- Hallmark Movie Channel HD^
1030 -- Discovery HD Theater
1031 -- ABC Family HD
1032 -- Cartoon HD^
1033 -- TNT HD
1035 -- Crime & Investigation HD^
1036 -- Discovery HD^
1037 -- A&E HD^
1038 -- Biography HD^
1039 -- ESPNU HD^
1040 -- The Travel Channel HD^
1041 -- ESPN News HD^
1042 -- The Outdoor Channel HD^
1043 -- MSG HD^
1044 -- NHL HD^****
1045 -- Food Network HD
1046 -- SportsNet NY HD
1047 -- YES HD
1048 -- VERSUS/ Golf HD
1049 -- TBS HD^
1052 -- ESPN HD
1053 -- ESPN2 HD
1055 -- National Geographic HD^
1056 -- HGTV HD^
1057 -- Planet Green HD^
1059 -- Tennis HD****^
1060 -- HBO HD**
1061 -- Showtime HD**
1062 -- Starz HD**^
1063 -- History Channel HD^
1064 -- Cinemax HD**^
1065 -- Speed HD^
1067 -- FX HD^
1068 -- Animal Planet HD^
1091 -- HD Showcase On Demand^

Included in HD Tier
1050 -- HD Net
1051 -- HD Net Movies
1054 -- Universal HD^
1069 -- MGM HD^

How you view this is up to the individual. And this is pretty typical to what I've seen in other places where SDV is used.

I'll first point out that 4 of the channels on their digital HD tier are premium.

Im impressed to see FX HD. This is the first TW lineup I've seen it added on HD.


Palladia HD I assume is in Espanol.

I'm not certain but I'm willing to bet that in order for you to get any of the sports HD channels, outside of ESPN in HD you will need to purchase their sports tier. Coming soon to Cleveland.:rolleyes:

Crime and Investigation HD? Sounds like reruns of Law & Orders and CSI.

I could use Versus. I'm praying to God our economy gets better. But I don't need to do that in HD.

Tennis might be interesting. Some nice eye candy.;) But again, sports tier.

A&E HD. Thats another good one.

Lifetime Movie Net. 'nuff said.:eek:

ABC Family, perhaps.

No USA in HD.:mad:

4 cartoon networks in HD? Four? Do kids see the difference in HD? Do they care? Are the cartoons in HD?

Now is the competition offering anything better? No, not really just more.

Finally it has to get here. SDV, that is. And last I heard that was starting October 20th, 2008.:D

Wow, I don't care. The only channels I'd like are CNN and F/X HD. Unless USA and SPIKETV HD were added, my HD viewing wouldn't increase. Discovery and National Geographic could be nice, as long as they don't stretch. And if any of those channels stretch picture they'll be added to my IGNORE list, just like channels 441-448. Although to be fair, Discovery HDT doesn't stretch, it's just a stupid channel.

The problem is at the BOTTOM of the screen, NOT the top. I saw the top mentioned in a few posts above. As of this writing, I still see the black line at the bottom of the screen. They were doing this last year around this time and then it was fixed. But now it's back. But I'm not surprised since it's fro channel 5. They always have some problem. Either it is this, or the picture is completely blacked out or SD upconvert is green-tinted and horizontally scrolling or the digital audio is screwed up. You get the picture. WEWS must have bought all their HD equipment on the clearance shelf at Radio Shack(aka Rat Shack).

I'm surprised the channel 5 shill hasn't made an appearance yet to defend this. Last time I commented about 5 moving programming around there was one comment in defense of it. Hmmmm.

How you view this is up to the individual. And this is pretty typical to what I've seen in other places where SDV is used.

I'll first point out that 4 of the channels on their digital HD tier are premium.

Im impressed to see FX HD. This is the first TW lineup I've seen it added on HD.


Palladia HD I assume is in Espanol.

I'm not certain but I'm willing to bet that in order for you to get any of the sports HD channels, outside of ESPN in HD you will need to purchase their sports tier. Coming soon to Cleveland.:rolleyes:

Crime and Investigation HD? Sounds like reruns of Law & Orders and CSI.

I could use Versus. I'm praying to God our economy gets better. But I don't need to do that in HD.

Tennis might be interesting. Some nice eye candy.;) But again, sports tier.

A&E HD. Thats another good one.

Lifetime Movie Net. 'nuff said.:eek:

ABC Family, perhaps.

No USA in HD.:mad:

4 cartoon networks in HD? Four? Do kids see the difference in HD? Do they care? Are the cartoons in HD?

Now is the competition offering anything better? No, not really just more.

Finally it has to get here. SDV, that is. And last I heard that was starting October 20th, 2008.:D

Agreed it's up to each individual as to how important it is. For me, the more HD channels the better and this lineup is very similar to what Dish is offering. I'm sure some of the channels are worthless, but I'd still like the options to find a few good shows in HD. Dish really doesn't have that much more compared to that lineup, plus theirs is in 4 pay tiers and this is all included in the base tier according to the TWC website. Excluding channels such as HBO and any locals, the count is still around 45. It's possible some of the sports HD would be in a separate pay tier, however on their website for Rochester, they list the pay tiers and they list only the HD-tier being pay and the rest of the HD is listed as 'free HD tier' (aside from HBO, Showtime etc...). I guess the important thing is that TWC does have a competative HD lineup to Dish in many states so I'm hoping that when SDV is in full swing, we'll get a similar lineup. As of now, it's not so great.

nickdawg - they are adding SpikeTV-HD and USA-HD in NY this month. :(

Here's a news flash for you. If you are in the Cleveland area you will never see FIOS. The reason for that is because Verizon would have to be a phone company in our area and we have either AT&T or Windstream.

There is Verizon service around here - the old GTE area of Medina County.

I have heard no indication, though, that the area will ever get FiOS.

There is Verizon service around here - the old GTE area of Medina County.

I have heard no indication, though, that the area will ever get FiOS.

I've heard many more indications that Verizon is looking to sell their less densely populated Mid-West areas to a smaller phone company. I think it's a safe bet that this area will be WAY down the list of areas to run FiOS to. There's just not enough ROI in this area versus many other areas of the country (both because of density and demographics).

I've heard many more indications that Verizon is looking to sell their less densely populated Mid-West areas to a smaller phone company. I think it's a safe bet that this area will be WAY down the list of areas to run FiOS to. There's just not enough ROI in this area versus many other areas of the country (both because of density and demographics).

Pardon my ignorance: What is ROI?

Pardon my ignorance: What is ROI?

Return On Investment

Return On Investment

Heck, I'd jump ship in a heartbeat to get FIOS over TW.

I noticed a couple of days ago that Armstrong in Medina split the shared channel of Golf HD / Versus HD into their own dedicated channels. And now tonight there are 3 new ones showing up, although no guide data exists yet. We can add to the list Weather HD, Disney HD, and Hallmark HD.

Quote from hookbill:

"Palladia HD I assume is in Espanol"

"Palladia HD" is the new name for MTV Networks' "MHD". They made the switch several months ago. :)

You know what they say about the word "assume." :D

- Trip

I've heard many more indications that Verizon is looking to sell their less densely populated Mid-West areas to a smaller phone company. I think it's a safe bet that this area will be WAY down the list of areas to run FiOS to. There's just not enough ROI in this area versus many other areas of the country (both because of density and demographics).

Correct. I think Medina County would likely never see FiOS even if Verizon hung onto that system. They're never getting a larger base in the Cleveland market, given that AT&T is the incumbent carrier in the largest part of the market (give or take Windstream out east).

I used to live not far from you, and I remember that the old GTE could barely get a dial tone out!

Channel 5 is fixed.

No more black line
at the bottom of the screen.

I never liked the way channel 5.1 broadcasts HD, it doesn't look as sharp as the others, like they put a soft filter on everything to reduce the sharpness. They also have it just a tad on the bright side. Some of the HD shots on other channels are still cheating using plain old widescreen. And with the depression things probably won't change much.
JJK

Cox Cleveland just added a bunch of HD channels. Well they are labeled HD some have no HD content. Now have 43 HD channels on the first tier and 6 on the second tier.

I never liked the way channel 5.1 broadcasts HD, it doesn't look as sharp as the others, like they put a soft filter on everything to reduce the sharpness. They also have it just a tad on the bright side. Some of the HD shots on other channels are still cheating using plain old widescreen. And with the depression things probably won't change much.
JJK

I beg to differ. One of the best looking shows in HD is LOST. Boston Legal was also extremely sharp and good looking in HD.

Soft filter? How do you know this? You work there or know someone who does?

They broadcast what ABC feeds them, and I've seen their news, it appears fine to me (don't start nickdawg, I'm talking picture here not content).

Since you are in this thread and post regularly I'll take it that you know about calibration and such so I imagine you've done that. If you haven't then you should.

Edit: Depression? Are you in a bread line?

When it get's that bad, that's a depression. Hard times, bad recession, yes. But we are not in a depression.

Cox Cleveland just added a bunch of HD channels. Well they are labeled HD some have no HD content. Now have 43 HD channels on the first tier and 6 on the second tier.

That happens a great deal with these so called "HD" channels.

They broadcast what ABC feeds them, and I've seen their news, it appears fine to me (don't start nickdawg, I'm talking picture here not content).



Hey, I like channel 5. The only news I really hate and cant stand is 8(and 19 sometimes). Channel 5 has the BEST morning show in Cleveland.

All I know is what I see OTA. 3.1, 19.1, 25.1, 49.1, are razor sharp. (1080i) 8.1 is second. (720P) 43.1, 55.1 third, (1080i) and 5.1 (720P) last in quality except on live network broadcasts, then it is ok. Live local broadcasts 5.1 is almost just plain very good widescreen. These are viewed on Sony LCD-46XBR2 1080P, LCD-37XBR6 1080P, and Sharp 32GP1U 1080p. Some new films zoomed from 2.35 x 1 to 16 x 9 show an increase in film grain whereas if broadcast correctly in 2.35 x 1 with top/bottom bars the grain is imperseptable. When I say "soft filter" I mean very slightly soft, not a lot soft. I assume this is how the engineer wants it to look. I don't like "soft" when billions have been spent trying to get a larger, sharper, better color, and noise free performance. One jerko engineer can set you back 500 years. I have read threads from other forums that some jerks think HDTV is too sharp.
JJK

Here's a news flash for you. If you are in the Cleveland area you will never see FIOS. The reason for that is because Verizon would have to be a phone company in our area and we have either AT&T or Windstream. And if you're thinking about AT&T's U-Verse if you're in AT&T land you will need to call them to find out about availability.

Now as far as TW and trees, I hear you brother. I'm in the same boat. And no, I don't think the "digital deadline" will have any effect on TW HD offerings.

I don't know how long you've looked at this thread but TW will eventually initiate SDV (switched digital video) and when they do that we will probably see more channels, but from what I've seen around the country of areas of TW that have had it for sometime it is no where near the offerings of the Sat's.

If you don't know about SDV, Google is your friend or check out Wikipedia.

Thanks for the info; didn't think about the "no Verizion" thing, just figr'd no FIOS was another joyful part of living in Lake County and being lashed to the mule that is TWC.

Although we don't get it here yet either, any opinions on AT&T Uverse? They are close to our area and would think eventually they would get out here. Looks like they have a pretty good HDTV lineup.

Thanks for the info; didn't think about the "no Verizion" thing, just figr'd no FIOS was another joyful part of living in Lake County and being lashed to the mule that is TWC.

Although we don't get it here yet either, any opinions on AT&T Uverse? They are close to our area and would think eventually they would get out here. Looks like they have a pretty good HDTV lineup.

ATT Uverse is in Lake County. My friend lives around the corner from me in Tam-O-Rac apartments. They made hiim take his Dish down earlier this year and he was forced to move to either TWC or ATT which just installed new boxes in the development. He chose ATT. I have seen ATT and the pcture quality is sub-par IMO. Add that to limited to recording only one HD channel at a time too.

Just a week ago an ATT rep was going door to door down my street (I'm in Mentor around the corner from my friend in Willoughy at Tam-O Rac). He was asking if I wanted to switch to ATT. I told him I had seen their service and I was not impressed.

Ray

ATT Uverse is in Lake County. My friend lives around the corner from me in Tam-O-Rac apartments. They made hiim take his Dish down earlier this year and he was forced to move to either TWC or ATT which just installed new boxes in the development. He chose ATT. I have seen ATT and the pcture quality is sub-par IMO. Add that to limited to recording only one HD channel at a time too.

Just a week ago an ATT rep was going door to door down my street (I'm in Mentor around the corner from my friend in Willoughy at Tam-O Rac). He was asking if I wanted to switch to ATT. I told him I had seen their service and I was not impressed.

Ray

Who made him take down his dish? He has a legal right to have that dish if he even rents.

ATT Uverse is in Lake County. My friend lives around the corner from me in Tam-O-Rac apartments. They made hiim take his Dish down earlier this year and he was forced to move to either TWC or ATT which just installed new boxes in the development. He chose ATT. I have seen ATT and the pcture quality is sub-par IMO. Add that to limited to recording only one HD channel at a time too.

Just a week ago an ATT rep was going door to door down my street (I'm in Mentor around the corner from my friend in Willoughy at Tam-O Rac). He was asking if I wanted to switch to ATT. I told him I had seen their service and I was not impressed.

Ray

Good to know; I'm in Kirtland and I guess I'll just hang w/ TWC even if AT&T reaches our neighborhood someday. Recording only 1 HD channel at a time? That's sure not the impression the give in their advertisements.

Who made him take down his dish? He has a legal right to have that dish if he even rents.

Hook,

I informed him of all that but he was actually glad to remove it since the ATT service is less that the Dish Network was. Dish Network let him out of the contract too which surprized me. He drives a truck and is away most of the time so I go and empty his mail box twice a week. I somtimes stop and sample one of his beers and turn on the TV and watch if I have time. The HD is not bad just a bit soft compared to TWC. I find TWC has a soft picture too compared to OTA.

Ray

Hook,

I informed him of all that but he was actually glad to remove it since the ATT service is less that the Dish Network was. Dish Network let him out of the contract too which surprized me. He drives a truck and is away most of the time so I go and empty his mail box twice a week. I somtimes stop and sample one of his beers and turn on the TV and watch if I have time. The HD is not bad just a bit soft compared to TWC. I find TWC has a soft picture too compared to OTA.

Ray

Same with WOW Cable's HD ch's, OTA is just a bit sharper and more crisp in detail. I'd bet this is true comparing most cable providers vs OTA.
May be due in part to less compression with OTA.

I don't know diddly about sat dishes nor FCC laws but I always thought the FCC protection law was restricted to antennas to receive OTA broadcasts of public airwaves. I'd always assumed sat signals and dishes were outside of this protection of the law, but I dunno.

May be due in part to less compression with OTA.

Exactly my thought.

I don't know diddly about sat dishes nor FCC laws but I always thought the FCC protection law was restricted to antennas to receive OTA broadcasts of public airwaves. I'd always assumed sat signals and dishes were outside of this protection of the law, but I dunno.

A while back they passed a law saying that landlords and such could not prevent you from putting a dish on the roof or other areas so you could get satellite if you desired. It's been that way for a few years now.

Today at 8 on WEWS. "Wifeswap" will be seen later tonight(at 1:05). Then the next message is "the following is a paid commercial program, the products, services or opinions on this program are not endorsed by WEWS". It's a paid program for Billy Graham, IN PRIMETIME!!! Thanks for the ho, ho, ho, F**K YOU to the viewers!! Seems like WEWS is trying to compete with WOIO for the title of worst. :mad:

I see why they ran the "not endorsed by us". They don't want to be held responsible or associated with the religious propaganda served up by these loons.

Well some people hate Wifeswap, and some people really love Bill Graham. Personally, I don't care for either one. :):rolleyes:

Well some people hate Wifeswap, and some people really love Bill Graham. Personally, I don't care for either one. :):rolleyes:

I like Wifeswap. It's an interesting social experiment to see how people react in different situations. At least that's how I justify watching it! ;)

I don't like con men. That's who interrupted my show tonight. ;)

I like Wifeswap. It's an interesting social experiment to see how people react in different situations. At least that's how I justify watching it! ;)

I don't like con men. That's who interrupted my show tonight. ;)

I'm not watching anything called "Wifeswap." The mere title of the show IMHO shows how our values in this country have degenerated.

And I'm not religious, nor am I a conservative. I agree with nickdawg that interrupting regular scheduled programming for Billy Graham is ridiculous even for such garbage as "Wifeswap." However I think out of all the evangelist that have come and gone, Dr. Graham has never done anything to warrant a suspicion of being a con man.

I can't say that about any other televised ministry that I've ever seen. The rest I would probably call con men. Just not Billy Graham.

I'm not watching anything called "Wifeswap." The mere title of the show IMHO shows how our values in this country have degenerated.

And I'm not religious, nor am I a conservative. I agree with nickdawg that interrupting regular scheduled programming for Billy Graham is ridiculous even for such garbage as "Wifeswap." However I think out of all the evangelist that have come and gone, Dr. Graham has never done anything to warrant a suspicion of being a con man.

I can't say that about any other televised ministry that I've ever seen. The rest I would probably call con men. Just not Billy Graham.

ditto.... on every word in your post. :)
(although, let's please refrain from the religous talk... it's against forum rules, and I for one like that rule :))
...but ya, BG is a really stand up guy, doing what he believes in.

I'm not watching anything called "Wifeswap." The mere title of the show IMHO shows how our values in this country have degenerated.

And I'm not religious, nor am I a conservative. I agree with nickdawg that interrupting regular scheduled programming for Billy Graham is ridiculous even for such garbage as "Wifeswap." However I think out of all the evangelist that have come and gone, Dr. Graham has never done anything to warrant a suspicion of being a con man.

I can't say that about any other televised ministry that I've ever seen. The rest I would probably call con men. Just not Billy Graham.

You totally misunderstood the show. It's not a "fooling around" type of thing. In fact, it's the opposite. Almost every time the person cannot stand the other family. They don't even want to talk to them, let alone anything "denigrating".

And old Billy wasn't even on this show(at least the part I watched). There were some young people talking and singing and religious talk. It's these young people and the "mega churches" that have ruined things. Plus there was an on-screen phone number "For a Relationship with Jesus, call: ###". Yeah, I'll bet "Jesus" will ask for a credit card number first. :D

They won't ask for a credit card :rolleyes:...

The main issue I have with most of those type of reality shows, is that they take hundreds of hours of video tape and edit it down to 45 minutes. What is left is a pot of confruntational crap that is intended to to entertain people who lust after this type of stuff. Not to mention the fact, that they pair up couples that are HIGHLY likely to not get along.

...........And old Billy wasn't even on this show(at least the part I watched). There were some young people talking and singing and religious talk. It's these young people and the "mega churches" that have ruined things. Plus there was an on-screen phone number "For a Relationship with Jesus, call: ###". Yeah, I'll bet "Jesus" will ask for a credit card number first. :D

Well let's have a big AMEN that at least it wasn't Tammy Fay Baker in primetime.........and in HD!
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! :eek:

.....The main issue I have with most of those type of reality shows, is that they take hundreds of hours of video tape and edit it down to 45 minutes. What is left is a pot of confruntational crap that is intended to to entertain people who lust after this type of stuff. Not to mention the fact, that they pair up couples that are HIGHLY likely to not get along.

That's exactly what makes reality shows popular and bearable! Take out the boring stuff and just show us the fireworks. Gordon Ramsey would be quite a bore if he liked the food and personnel at the restaurants he visited. :)

Now, if they would do the same thing with baseball, edit out the 3 hours of snoring and just show the five minutes the ball was actually "in play", I might just watch. ;)

Cox Cleveland just added a bunch of HD channels. Well they are labeled HD some have no HD content. Now have 43 HD channels on the first tier and 6 on the second tier.

WOW Cable seems to be lagging in the HD content category. :(

Tier 1 = 21 HD ch's, including locals (55 WBNX not offered in HD)
Tier 2 = 5 HD ch's (NFL, HDNet, etc..)

Plus, obviously, the HD premiums (HBO, SHO, Starz, MAX) if you subscribe to them.

ditto.... on every word in your post. :)
(although, let's please refrain from the religous talk... it's against forum rules, and I for one like that rule :))
...but ya, BG is a really stand up guy, doing what he believes in.

Well, thanks for agreeing but I really wasn't talking religion. I was talking about television programming and 'dawgs comment on BG. I am definitely not a preacher!;)

They won't ask for a credit card :rolleyes:...

The main issue I have with most of those type of reality shows, is that they take hundreds of hours of video tape and edit it down to 45 minutes. What is left is a pot of confruntational crap that is intended to to entertain people who lust after this type of stuff. Not to mention the fact, that they pair up couples that are HIGHLY likely to not get along.

You know I think I have seen "Wifeswap" and I stopped watching it and nickdawg is right about the content. However the title IMHO is inappropriate and deliberate to drag viewers who want to see some kind of semi perverted type show.

A more appropriate name would be something along the lines of "A New Family" or "Changing Houses" but neither of those would have the grap that Wifeswap has.

However you slice and dice it reality shows are cheaper then regular shows and you can plan on seeing more of them. NBC last year in it's desperation said they were going to do many more reality shows, now they want to move Jay Leno, who I do not find funny into prime time somehow.

Good Luck NBC. How about some creative thinking?

However you slice and dice it reality shows are cheaper then regular shows and you can plan on seeing more of them. NBC last year in it's desperation said they were going to do many more reality shows, now they want to move Jay Leno, who I do not find funny into prime time somehow.

Good Luck NBC. How about some creative thinking?

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek:

I love the Jay Leno show!! But I agree about NBC. They are pathetic. First they take the star of their best late night show and dump him, now they beg him to come back in prime time. NBC should be lucky that Jay Leno agreed to to do their stupid show. I was really looking forward to Jay going to ABC and annihilating NBC. Even though I don't like Conan as much, I feel bad for him too. He's also been f**ked by NBC. Instead of being the star on the Tonight Show, now he will still be second to Jay Leno. On top of that, his show is gonna get killed in the ratings. Say hello to first place, Mr Letterman!! Right now Craig Ferguson beats Conan. Which he should, because Ferguson is much, much better.

I love Conan. I try to catch his show when I can. He is hilarious IMO.
So he is now doing TTN? I knew that was in the future, but I didn't know it was coming right now.
So what is Leno doing now? I am so confused because I don't know what is going on. :o.

I love Conan. I try to catch his show when I can. He is hilarious IMO.
So he is now doing TTN? I knew that was in the future, but I didn't know it was coming right now.
So what is Leno doing now? I am so confused because I don't know what is going on. :o.

Jay Leno---10:00pm
Local News---11:00pm
Conan's Tonight Show---11:35
Late Night with Jimmy Fallon(not a joke, it's real:eek:)---12:35
Last Call with Carson Daly---1:35
Repeats of the various shows---2:05-4:00

Jay Leno---10:00pm
Local News---11:00pm
Conan's Tonight Show---11:35
Late Night with Jimmy Fallon(not a joke, it's real:eek:)---12:35
Last Call with Carson Daly---1:35
Repeats of the various shows---2:05-4:00

Mind you this change isn't happening till the Fall 2009 season. Hasn't happened yet.

Mind you this change isn't happening till the Fall 2009 season. Hasn't happened yet.

Oooohhhh, ok then. The way it was worded I thought I missed something.
Looking forward to Conan taking over TTN. What the heck is Leno going to be doing for a show??? What kind of show is it?

One of the reasons I read for Leno moving into prime time, and it really makes sense is that people don't stay up so late anymore, and that this season there has not been even 1 new hit show from 10:00 pm to 11:00 pm. This is true despite CBS's claim that "The Eleventh Hour is the number 1 new show on Thursday night."

Perhaps it's number 1, but not because of good ratings. It's just beating another show.

This to me is a sad story, because that means a show I find terrific called "Life on Mars" on ABC will probably get the ax.

And the reason people don't stay up as late? Baby boomers. We still have the largest numbers and since we are all getting older we all hit the sack around 10:00 pm.

But I think there is another question that needs to be answered: Just how truly accurate are the so called ratings system? Since I usually go to bed at 10:00 pm that does not mean I'm not recording shows. And I know many people who record Letterman and Leno.

Letterman: Funny. Leno: I don't think so. That's for nickdawgs benefit and because, well you know, I don't really want him and I to agree to much. Spoils the fun.;)

Once again, the morons at WJW are dropping FOX network programming for the Clowns. What is this, the third time? This kind of thing NEVER happened under FOX management. Only time network programming was ever dropped was for that one Thursday game on NFL network. And Thursday is an off day for FOX anyway. Big time programming like PB, House, etc was NEVER dumped. And sports programming(remember MLB?) was never even talked about being dumped. Now stupidity reigns at WJW. That's what happens when you go from network ownership to a piss poor crap company fighting with Raycom for title of "worst". Hey WJW: Here's to seeing your employees on the unemployment line and your station showing more paid programming than WUAB!!!

I'll be watching Prison Break through BT again, as I have been the last few weeks! :D:p

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek:

I love the Jay Leno show!! But I agree about NBC. They are pathetic. First they take the star of their best late night show and dump him, now they beg him to come back in prime time. NBC should be lucky that Jay Leno agreed to to do their stupid show. I was really looking forward to Jay going to ABC and annihilating NBC. Even though I don't like Conan as much, I feel bad for him too. He's also been f**ked by NBC. Instead of being the star on the Tonight Show, now he will still be second to Jay Leno. On top of that, his show is gonna get killed in the ratings. Say hello to first place, Mr Letterman!! Right now Craig Ferguson beats Conan. Which he should, because Ferguson is much, much better.

This is Leno's doing, NBC isn't forcing anything. Leno said years ago he would do TTS for 20 years only. 20 years is coming up. :)

So, actually, it's a (rare) smart move by NBC to keep Leno in the lineup....somewhere.

Once again, the morons at WJW are dropping FOX network programming for the Clowns. What is this, the third time? This kind of thing NEVER happened under FOX management. Only time network programming was ever dropped was for that one Thursday game on NFL network. And Thursday is an off day for FOX anyway. Big time programming like PB, House, etc was NEVER dumped. And sports programming(remember MLB?) was never even talked about being dumped. Now stupidity reigns at WJW. That's what happens when you go from network ownership to a piss poor crap company fighting with Raycom for title of "worst". Hey WJW: Here's to seeing your employees on the unemployment line and your station showing more paid programming than WUAB!!!

I'll be watching Prison Break through BT again, as I have been the last few weeks! :D:p

Aw crap, not again! Well, there's more bad news.

I've been reading that FOX is thinking about dumping Prison Break. And knowing FOX if they do it won't be with a resolved ending. That will really suck after watching over a 3 year span.

I haven't herd anything about Terminator.

If the ratings are in the toilet, which is usually the reason a network will dump a show then that is probably why FOX 8 is showing the Browns. But I still think this is a local new ownership decision. Since it's on ESPN which is owned by ABC and even uses their theme music there is no way FOX would promote another network.

I watch the Terninator all the time. The girl android fascinates me. The ramifications are infinite.
JJK

I watch the Terninator all the time. The girl android fascinates me. The ramifications are infinite.
JJK

You're trying to say she's hot?;):D

Remember I'm about a month behind on viewing so I just caught an episode where she pulled off shirt and she was in a tank top with a pink bra. Then she crawls in bed with John, and if he's 16 I'm 50.

Now she still had all her clothes on but she is just all so sexy. And way to young for me, but it's good for the eyes.:)

I downloaded the episodes that they had last time in 720p but I'm having trouble setting my Mac up to transmit them to my TiVo.

However I still have my PC right next to me so I'll just grab them over there and move them from my PC.

Aw crap, not again! Well, there's more bad news.

I've been reading that FOX is thinking about dumping Prison Break. And knowing FOX if they do it won't be with a resolved ending. That will really suck after watching over a 3 year span.

I haven't herd anything about Terminator.

If the ratings are in the toilet, which is usually the reason a network will dump a show then that is probably why FOX 8 is showing the Browns. But I still think this is a local new ownership decision. Since it's on ESPN which is owned by ABC and even uses their theme music there is no way FOX would promote another network.

I hope Prison Break ends soon. I want the story resolved at the end of the season. The show is starting to get crazy and they're jumping the shark. But knowing FOX, they will decide to suddenly can it and we'll never see the end. FOX is the worst with canceling shows.

AFAIK, Prison Break is still doing fine in the ratings. And ratings, really? They way things are going, I wouldn't even want to preempt Matlock reruns for the Browns. Definitely NOT FOX primetime(or any other network). I know this change has to be because of the owners. I doubt FOX would let one of their stations dump FOX programming for their COMPETITOR'S programming. And I doubt FTS would allow dumping MLB to another station(owned by a different company).

I'm not going to argue this whole MNF thing again...feel free to believe what you want about why things happen, with no information to back it up. :D

The other thing that facinates me about the Terminator is the machines can take bullets, bombs, fires, etc. How can a processor withstand heat of 1700 degrees? How can the robotic eye withstand a bullet? How can a moveable joint withstand the heat, bullets, bombs, etc. without jamming up? One bullet through the right eye would and should totally disable the processor unless it has the capability to rebuild itself and re-program itself. It is basically rediculous but the girl android is Hot.
JJK

I'm not going to argue this whole MNF thing again...feel free to believe what you want about why things happen, with no information to back it up. :D

Naw, you're right. I agree that despite how bad the Browns are, this is a football town baby and make no mistake about it good are bad Cleveland area fans are loyal to the Browns. I respect this town for that. Too bad they don't give the Tribe nearly the same amount of support. And the Tribe could probably beat the Browns in a football game.:D

The other thing that facinates me about the Terminator is the machines can take bullets, bombs, fires, etc. How can a processor withstand heat of 1700 degrees? How can the robotic eye withstand a bullet? How can a moveable joint withstand the heat, bullets, bombs, etc. without jamming up? One bullet through the right eye would and should totally disable the processor unless it has the capability to rebuild itself and re-program itself. It is basically rediculous but the girl android is Hot.
JJK

I hate to say it but you can say the same thing about any SciFi show. Take Star Trek for example. All that nonsense about communicators that flip open, and talking live to someone on a big screen. Food that cooks up in minutes. Robots, Androids.

Yep, I agree. Ridiculous!;)

I'm not going to argue this whole MNF thing again...feel free to believe what you want about why things happen, with no information to back it up. :D

Naw, you're right. I agree that despite how bad the Browns are, this is a football town baby and make no mistake about it good are bad Cleveland area fans are loyal to the Browns. I respect this town for that. Too bad they don't give the Tribe nearly the same amount of support. And the Tribe could probably beat the Browns in a football game.:D

FOXY BROWNS: While watching the Browns lose to the World Champion New York Football Giants in last night's pre-season contest, we found out the local TV disposition of some of the team's national games.

The game on ESPN's "Monday Night Football" was aired locally by Local TV-owned FOX affiliate WJW/8 "FOX 8" in Cleveland.

NFL rules require all non-broadcast games to be offered to TV stations in the two teams' home markets...and that's a Big Deal this year because the Browns have five prime-time games in 2008, four of them airing on ESPN or the NFL Network. (The fifth is an NBC "Sunday Night Football" contest that'll air locally on NBC affiliate WKYC/3.)

Right at the end of the WJW-produced "Kickoff Countdown", FOX 8's Tony Rizzo announced that all of the ESPN "Monday Night Football" games involving the Browns will air on WJW.

A quick check of the Browns' website schedule shows that'll include the October 13th regular season contest with the very same Giants at Cleveland Browns Stadium, along with two road games - November 17th at Buffalo, and December 15th at Philadelphia.

Rizzo didn't mention a regular season FOX contest that WJW gets anyway, due to its network affiliation: the team's opener on September 7th against the Dallas Cowboys. With the FOX-favorite Cowboys and a 4:15 PM (ET) start, that's likely to be seen by most of the country.

With the ESPN games on FOX 8, and the September 14th "Sunday Night Football" Browns/Steelers game on WKYC via its NBC affiliation, that leaves one prime-time Browns game unaccounted for - the Thursday night, November 6th home game against the Denver Broncos, which will be aired nationally on the NFL Network.

We'd assume that if WJW picked up the rights to that game, they'd have trumpeted it on Sunday night along with listing the ESPN contests. So, either someone else bought the local rights to that game, or the local carrier hasn't been announced yet. (Or, we've missed it if it has been.)

The game WILL be aired by one of the local network affiliates, due to the aforementioned NFL rules.

And Browns fans can be thankful for those rules, because there's still no deal in sight between NFL Network and the dominant local cable provider, Time Warner Cable. The NFL Network folks won't be able to use the game as leverage, since those rules mean it WILL air in the Cleveland TV market on an over-air station.

The two remaining Browns pre-season contests will air on WKYC, as part of the station's rights deal with the local NFL team.

WKYC's Jim Donovan will return to doing TV play-by-play for those two games.

Donovan was heard back at his perch as the Radio Voice of the Browns on Sunday night on the Browns Radio Network, hubbed at Clear Channel rock WMMS/100.7, and also heard Sunday night on talk WTAM/1100, which carries the team's games when there's no conflict with the Cleveland Indians...

Difference is the Browns had several primetime games this season. In the past, when there was one ESPN game, it's been on WEWS or WKYC.

It's up for bid. WJW as a FOX O&O didn't bid on ESPN games in the past. WJW as a (whatever the hell they are) owned is bidding on ESPN games.

Difference is the Browns had several primetime games this season. In the past, when there was one ESPN game, it's been on WEWS or WKYC.

It's up for bid. WJW as a FOX O&O didn't bid on ESPN games in the past. WJW as a (whatever the hell they are) owned is bidding on ESPN games.

Hey, look on the bright side. Since they played so poorly this year they won't schedule them on any other prime time nights next year.

In baseball of course the network dictates what game will be played on Saturday. Too bad the the NFL can't and they have this rule that they have to be on television.

Hey, look on the bright side. Since they played so poorly this year they won't schedule them on any other prime time nights next year.

In baseball of course the network dictates what game will be played on Saturday. Too bad the the NFL can't and they have this rule that they have to be on television.

I find it absurd that CABLE games have to be shown on broadcast TV. First off, how many people even get antenna TV anymore? And second, what's the point of putting it on cable if it's gonna be shown on broadcast TV anyway? It's about time more people get cable.

I find it absurd that CABLE games have to be shown on broadcast TV. First off, how many people even get antenna TV anymore? And second, what's the point of putting it on cable if it's gonna be shown on broadcast TV anyway? It's about time more people get cable.

Anywhere from 5% to 30%, depending on which market you're in.

And by the way, I need that $70+/month for other things, thanks. =)

- Trip

Anywhere from 5% to 30%, depending on which market you're in.

And by the way, I need that $70+/month for other things, thanks. =)

- Trip

Exactly. Why should everyone shell out an extra $1000 a year just because Nick says so :rolleyes:.
Hey Nick, why don't you just get Dish Network and Direct TV and TW cable and a massive OTA antenna. That way you'd never miss anything. :p
Oh, is that not practical? Well it makes about as much sense as you wishing that extra expense on all of the elderly people out there who live on a fixed income.;)

Exactly. Why should everyone shell out an extra $1000 a year just because Nick says so :rolleyes:.
Hey Nick, why don't you just get Dish Network and Direct TV and TW cable and a massive OTA antenna. That way you'd never miss anything. :p
Oh, is that not practical? Well it makes about as much sense as you wishing that extra expense on all of the elderly people out there who live on a fixed income.;)

Umm, my comments were about the NFL. If you want to see the games, GET CABLE. No, not cable, DirecTV. They have the best NFL package. But programming from cable should not get priority over network programming. They made the CHOICE to not get cable/satellite, now they have to live with NOT getting to watch the ESPN games. Too bad!!

Hey, look on the bright side. Since they played so poorly this year they won't schedule them on any other prime time nights next year.

The problem, and our argument about it here, solves itself. Next year, the Browns will likely not be on primetime at all - and even their 1 PM CBS/FOX games will be seen by roughly half the audience their 1 PM games saw this year.

:D

A certain person here won't have to rant about local stations picking up the rights to "CABLE" games, because there won't be any for the Browns.