Umm, my comments were about the NFL. If you want to see the games, GET CABLE. No, not cable, DirecTV. They have the best NFL package. But programming from cable should not get priority over network programming. They made the CHOICE to not get cable/satellite, now they have to live with NOT getting to watch the ESPN games. Too bad!!

Again, I side with you on "get cable". ;) But that's my desire, not what is practicle. :(

Obviously the local networks make decent $$$$ airing these games or else they wouldn't fight over (bid on) them. Another reason the OTA broadcasts of such games may be quite popular is that many people have basic cable with no HD ch's and want to see the games in HD via OTA.

If we want to rant about real "duplicity" in broadcasts lets talk about the lunacy of showing the election coverage, State of the Union address, and DNC/RNC convention coverage on EVERY damn network and cable news ch. Talk about unnecessary duplicity!!!!

Yes, I know these are popular, people prefer particular ch's and hosts over others, and the public airwaves dictates the networks carry two of the three. Again, the locals, the networks, and the cable news ch's get ratings boosts from such coverage (maybe not the State of the Union, I dunno).

I "care" about all of them. I just choose not to watch such drivel play-by-play coverage. The summation shows that evening or the following day are adequate for my interests.

Thank god for cable giving me dozens of alternatives to watch in place of such nonsense! :D

The problem, and our argument about it here, solves itself. Next year, the Browns will likely not be on primetime at all - and even their 1 PM CBS/FOX games will be seen by roughly half the audience their 1 PM games saw this year.

:D

A certain person here won't have to rant about local stations picking up the rights to "CABLE" games, because there won't be any for the Browns.

hmmm...Is that certain person me or nickdawg?:)

If we want to rant about real "duplicity" in broadcasts lets talk about the lunacy of showing the election coverage, State of the Union address, and DNC/RNC convention coverage on EVERY damn network and cable news ch. Talk about unnecessary duplicity!!!!

Wait a minute. Without these interruptions I would have even more to record!;) I need these breaks so I can knock some shows out without recording on a 4 to 2 or 3 watched basis.:D

Wait a minute. Without these interruptions I would have even more to record!;) I need these breaks so I can knock some shows out without recording on a 4 to 2 or 3 watched basis.:D

Good point! :D

Wait a minute. Without these interruptions I would have even more to record!;) I need these breaks so I can knock some shows out without recording on a 4 to 2 or 3 watched basis.:D

That's also where I almost want SDTV!!! I've noticed ever since I started recording "Supernatural" in HD this season, I can't keep as many episodes. I used to keep about 3 or so, then I'd watch them at one time. This year had about 5, and now time to watch all 5, so I had to delete since I was almost at 100%. :( That's the only upside of not having all those HD cable channels, my USA and F/X recordings would be impossible. I don't have anything on USA or F/X now, but over the summer I had "In Plain Sight", which I watched in threes and "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia" from F/X, which I have three left. Plus "Rescue Me" starts sometime in early 2009, and F/X always loves to put their shows on against something I watch on Network TV and then the replays are always at 11:30(when it's Leno time). I suppose this is the part where I should thank Time Warner for making it easier and efficient for recording. ;)

That's also where I almost want SDTV!!! I've noticed ever since I started recording "Supernatural" in HD this season, I can't keep as many episodes. I used to keep about 3 or so, then I'd watch them at one time. This year had about 5, and now time to watch all 5, so I had to delete since I was almost at 100%. :( That's the only upside of not having all those HD cable channels, my USA and F/X recordings would be impossible. I don't have anything on USA or F/X now, but over the summer I had "In Plain Sight", which I watched in threes and "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia" from F/X, which I have three left. Plus "Rescue Me" starts sometime in early 2009, and F/X always loves to put their shows on against something I watch on Network TV and then the replays are always at 11:30(when it's Leno time). I suppose this is the part where I should thank Time Warner for making it easier and efficient for recording. ;)

Why don't you get an eSATA for that thing? I had one on my SA8300 that was designed just for that machine. 350gb more space.

It did cause my SA8300 to do partial recordings, but hey that was me.

I'm at a pretty good spot right now with both of my DVR's. And I still have like 47 shows on my computer to transfer over. Really disk space is not a problem, it's just a matter of transfer from either one TiVo to the other or to my Mac with it's 1tb hard drive. As I approach 11/16, I'm right around 11/13 I'll be moving some stuff off my computer to my S3.

Let's see. You have no disk space. You can't transfer. You can't download from the internet. You want to record SD because of disk space problems.

Well, at least your machine does record when you want it to. But to have to delete Supernatural? No way, I'd be running out to buy a TiVo.

Hey FWIW you may want to check out the Moxi HD DVR (http://moxi.com/moxi/experience_features.jsp). 800.00 and lifetime service, 500 gb hard drive. They've been talking a bit about it on the TiVo thread. I don't know much about it.

All night long my Cockatoo has been screaming. And if you ever heard a Cockatoo scream, it's loud, even with the door shut.

So at 10:00 pm I go in to turn off his television and I see why he's screaming. The poor bird is being tortured by having to watch the Browns! And I know he was looking forward to Terminator and Prison Break.

I turn off the television and he stops screaming. Guys, there is a message here. Even my Cockatoo who does have the intelligence of a three year old human can see this team stinks.

But wait! It's almost half time and I gotta set up the tivo for some transfers. Philly is down by the goal line. Time is running out and....The Browns make an interception! Amazing! Flag on the play. The guy stiff arms Westbrooke and HE MAY GO ALL THE WAY!

Nope...tackled or knocked out of bounds. They prevented a score true, but they are still getting whooped.:p

Then I look and I see, why FOX isn't even delivering this mess in Dolby 5.1. I mean if you want to torture the poor people at least give them Dolby. ESPN did. Why no Dolby 5.1 on FOX's broadcast?

El cheapo new owners.

So at 10:00 pm I go in to turn off his television and I see why he's screaming. The poor bird is being tortured by having to watch the Browns! And I know he was looking forward to Terminator and Prison Break.


Gee, you think we should call the SPCA out there in Geauga County?

:D

BTW, I did happen to notice on the local news tonight that they're playing the preempted Terminator at 7 PM tomorrow, and Prison Break at 11 PM. I'm assuming they can't replay them in HD, but I think your bird is on a converter box, no? ;)

As for not having Dolby 5.1 on the ESPN simulcast, I have no idea. I'm a 2.0 kinda guy. (Actually, I'm mostly an AM radio kinda guy, so I've never bought fancy sound equipment.) I'm still surprised the locals are now regularly broadcasting the HD version of the ESPN/NFL Network/etc. feeds of these prime time games.

Again, just wait for 2009. The Browns will barely be on network TV period, let alone preempting your precious FOX shows. :D

Reminder, Wednesday at 7:31 pm analog TV will shut off to run a message about being ready for DTV. I'm anxiously awaiting this to see how TWC will work out. Right now I'm watching Jay Leno and WKYC ran a crawl about DTV. It is obvious that TWC is still using the analog feed of WKYC. On WKYC HD 403, the font on the crawl is different and it is missing the tiny "3" logos. On WKYC 3 the text is different on the crawl. Plus, NBC programming is still shown in letterbox as it is on the NBC network analog feed. If it were taken from the HD channel, programming would be 4x3 with the bug in the lower left corner.

WEWS has a local bug on the SD versions of Wheel, Jeopardy and Oprah. The local 5 bug was present on those shows today. There's also an "ABC5" bug that appears on network programming on SD channel.

WJW has a "FOX8" bug on shows like Seinfeld that's only on the SD channel.

WOIO has the time and temperature on the SD newscast only. It's not present on the HD feed.

WBNX looks horrible. There is no way that is SD downconverted from HD. It has to be an OTA capture.

WVIZ/WNEO are obviously SD feeds since WVIZ DT is still national PBS HD and the other subs carry other programming. WNEO DT is simulcast and there used to be a 45.2 that was SD digital but the picture is terrible on WNEO analog and shows are still normal letterbox, whereas they are "zoom-o-vision" on the HD channel. This would appear 4x3 on the SD channel(with the sides cut off).

WUAB, WQHS, WOAC, WDLI = who cares, WUAB has HD, the other 3 have DT channels

WVPX will be left out of this due to not having a HD/digital channel on the air yet.

And yes, I'll say it.

I WATCH WAAAYY TOO MUCH TV!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

All night long my Cockatoo has been screaming. And if you ever heard a Cockatoo scream, it's loud, even with the door shut.

So at 10:00 pm I go in to turn off his television and I see why he's screaming. The poor bird is being tortured by having to watch the Browns! And I know he was looking forward to Terminator and Prison Break.

I turn off the television and he stops screaming. Guys, there is a message here. Even my Cockatoo who does have the intelligence of a three year old human can see this team stinks.



Gee I would have figured the bird would be into Baretta :)

This to me is a sad story, because that means a show I find terrific called "Life on Mars" on ABC will probably get the ax.
"Life on Mars" is the only primetime network program that will go out of my way to watch. While I have not watched it from the beginning, the first episode I did watch got me hooked! I'm into time-travel themes (thanks to the "Back to the Future" trilogy). I'm also into forensic crime solving (thanks to CSI mainly Miami, although I watch mainly the late night reruns). But what really got me hooked is the music soundtrack! They play songs I haven't heard since my senior year in high school (which happens to be the year "Life on Mars" is situated). Even the title of the show is a reference to a classic David Bowie song off Ziggy Stardust.

"Life on Mars" comes back in January. If you haven't already checked it out, give it a shot. If you are a 50+ Baby Boomer you just might love this show too.

"Life on Mars" is the only primetime network program that will go out of my way to watch. While I have not watched it from the beginning, the first episode I did watch got me hooked! I'm into time-travel themes (thanks to the "Back to the Future" trilogy). I'm also into forensic crime solving (thanks to CSI mainly Miami, although I watch mainly the late night reruns). But what really got me hooked is the music soundtrack! They play songs I haven't heard since my senior year in high school (which happens to be the year "Life on Mars" is situated). Even the title of the show is a reference to a classic David Bowie song off Ziggy Stardust.

"Life on Mars" comes back in January. If you haven't already checked it out, give it a shot. If you are a 50+ Baby Boomer you just might love this show too.

You and I seem to have identical taste in programming. Don't you wonder why the so called "Classic Rock" stations don't play it? Yeah, some of it's pop but there is so much music FM doesn't play. It's why I got XM, now Sirius-XM. "Deep Tracks" plays music like that and with the merger they went with Sirius "Classic Vinyl" for their Classic Rock station and I like that one better then the XM one. Matter of fact there is a disk jockey I know personally from Los Angeles named Dusty Street (her real name) on that channel. Well worth the money.

This may have been discuissed in the past and I apologize for repetition. Direct TV channel 19 keeps having numerous break ups on both of my HR recveivers. 19-1 OTA on the HR20-700 is better. All other DTV channels are fine. Is there a problem with 19 on the satellite?

It's been rock solid in Twinsburg.
JJK

WHY, WHY, WHY do they keep serving this crap up? All of their recorded syndicated HD Programming has this problem. It was on during Oprah, Wheel and Jeopardy today. Plus it was on during CSI:NY and Boston Legal last weekend. It's insulting that the SD upconvert commercials sound fine, ABC network programming sounds fine. Throw back to SD for Wheel and Jeopardy. Is anybody monitoring what goes out? :mad::mad::mad:

I'm so sick of these "are you ready for DTV" commercials on 5. They're obviously NOT ready, they can't properly broadcast in HD. It's gonna be really fun after 2/17 when there is no more analog feed to fall back on when there's a problem. Maybe then it will finally be fixed when 5 is caught with their pants down in front of the entire NE Ohio audience.

I'm so sick of these "are you ready for DTV" commercials on 5. They're obviously NOT ready, they can't properly broadcast in HD. It's gonna be really fun after 2/17 when there is no more analog feed to fall back on when there's a problem. Maybe then it will finally be fixed when 5 is caught with their pants down in front of the entire NE Ohio audience.

Why do you constantly loop digital with HD? It's not the same thing.

nickdawg I don't know what problems you are talking about but just let me say this: since I first started watching HD, I guess it's been at least 3 years if not more, broadcast quality has improved tremendously. I can tell you about channels going down for hours at a time. You hardly see that at all anymore.

Since I don't turn on my back speakers during the day I can't confirm what you are hearing or seeing. My back speakers are wireless, hence I only use them when I'm sitting down watching television which I don't do in the afternoon or morning. I will try it this afternoon and see if I see anything. But you really should check with OTA and see if they are having problems first.

Why do you constantly loop digital with HD? It's not the same thing.

nickdawg I don't know what problems you are talking about but just let me say this: since I first started watching HD, I guess it's been at least 3 years if not more, broadcast quality has improved tremendously. I can tell you about channels going down for hours at a time. You hardly see that at all anymore.

Since I don't turn on my back speakers during the day I can't confirm what you are hearing or seeing. My back speakers are wireless, hence I only use them when I'm sitting down watching television which I don't do in the afternoon or morning. I will try it this afternoon and see if I see anything. But you really should check with OTA and see if they are having problems first.

Ch 5 had (may still) some audio issue including OTA. It was a background hissing/crackling. As nick said, it came and went with different source material. ex: present on one commercial, but not on the next.

Why do you constantly loop digital with HD? It's not the same thing.

nickdawg I don't know what problems you are talking about but just let me say this: since I first started watching HD, I guess it's been at least 3 years if not more, broadcast quality has improved tremendously. I can tell you about channels going down for hours at a time. You hardly see that at all anymore.

Since I don't turn on my back speakers during the day I can't confirm what you are hearing or seeing. My back speakers are wireless, hence I only use them when I'm sitting down watching television which I don't do in the afternoon or morning. I will try it this afternoon and see if I see anything. But you really should check with OTA and see if they are having problems first.
You don't need DD 5.1 to hear the noise on ch 5. It can be heard everywhere except the analog feed. It was one of those episodes that led to my realization that Dish Network was already downrezzing the Cleveland HD locals on their SD feeds. I could hear the same problem on digital OTA, satellite HD and satellite SD while the OTA analog's audio was clean.

It appears to me that the master controls of not just TV 5 but all our locals are not paying as much attention to the quality of the digital signals as they should.

I wish the powers that be in local broadcasting would take the time to read this forum.

...............
I wish the powers that be in local broadcasting would take the time to read this forum.

Or just turn on a friggin TV in their studio/offices of the same feed we are getting.

Yeah, the Ch. 5 audio garbage I was hearing was digital OTA but fed as simple 2 ch audio to the TV speakers. DD would just take 2 speaker garbage and make it 5 speaker garbage. :)

"Life on Mars" is the only primetime network program that will go out of my way to watch. While I have not watched it from the beginning, the first episode I did watch got me hooked! I'm into time-travel themes (thanks to the "Back to the Future" trilogy). I'm also into forensic crime solving (thanks to CSI mainly Miami, although I watch mainly the late night reruns). But what really got me hooked is the music soundtrack! They play songs I haven't heard since my senior year in high school (which happens to be the year "Life on Mars" is situated). Even the title of the show is a reference to a classic David Bowie song off Ziggy Stardust.

"Life on Mars" comes back in January. If you haven't already checked it out, give it a shot. If you are a 50+ Baby Boomer you just might love this show too.

Agreed 100%. I hope it doesn't go the same way as 'Journeyman' which was an actor strike casualty. I loved that show and it got dumped just as it was getting great.

As for all these audio and HD problems that people are having here, I rarely have issues with my Time Warner here in Twinsburg. Once in a while something happens, but it's not a constant thing like it seems to be for some. Could be different equipment that people have. I had a Yamaha rx-v1200 receiver that for some reason would totally botch some CBS shows (many of them actually) where I'd get the same mono sound from all my speakers. No matter what I did, that one channel was messed up. I'd put my Sony receiver on and poof, normal surround (no DD for WOIO at that point). the Yamaha was perfect for everything else.

Why do you constantly loop digital with HD? It's not the same thing.



Because, on February 17, 2009, all stations will be broadcasting DIGITAL only.

For channel 5, their DIGITAL channel is a HDTV channel. This channel broadcasts most syndicated programming in HD(where the problems are). Once the analog feed shuts off, there will be no analog network feed to throw to and probably not an analog Wheel of Fortune or CSI. I don't think they'll record the SD versions once the SD channel goes away. This means every TV, regardless of HD, cable, satellite, OTA will see the same DIGITAL feed. Even though some will see it in SD and some in HD, the audio is the same. One of the satellite guys here confirmed that with me(since D* and E* are using the digital channel for SDTV, the audio problem was present on both 5 SD and HD). I had OK audio on 5 analog since it was the station's analog feed at the time.

Or just turn on a friggin TV in their studio/offices of the same feed we are getting.

Yeah, the Ch. 5 audio garbage I was hearing was digital OTA but fed as simple 2 ch audio to the TV speakers. DD would just take 2 speaker garbage and make it 5 speaker garbage. :)

Yeah, I was watching in PCM with Pro Logic II. Cable box messes up after EAS tests---long story. The only thing coming out of the back was fuzz. So I turned it to AFD-2 channel only and then the fuzz came out the front!!! So I'm assuming even if you used just the TV speakers, this would be a problem.

Because, on February 17, 2009, all stations will be broadcasting DIGITAL only.

For channel 5, their DIGITAL channel is a HDTV channel. This channel broadcasts most syndicated programming in HD(where the problems are). Once the analog feed shuts off, there will be no analog network feed to throw to and probably not an analog Wheel of Fortune or CSI. I don't think they'll record the SD versions once the SD channel goes away. This means every TV, regardless of HD, cable, satellite, OTA will see the same DIGITAL feed. Even though some will see it in SD and some in HD, the audio is the same. One of the satellite guys here confirmed that with me(since D* and E* are using the digital channel for SDTV, the audio problem was present on both 5 SD and HD). I had OK audio on 5 analog since it was the station's analog feed at the time.

Nick I know you know the technologies, but I think what Hook is saying is that it's a digital conversion, not HDTV. Channel 5 will be an all digital channel, not all HDTV channel. It's mixing up two totally different technolgies. Digital doesn't = HD. You can have digital SD so going all digital has nothing to do with recording SD vs. HDTV versions. I know you know this already but they are digital channels that show HDTV, not HDTV channels that sometimes show SD. A digital channel can broadcast only SD if they want for years to come. Film can be almost any resolution you want, including HD resolutions and it isn't digital...it's film. HD standard refers to resolution really while digital doesn't specifiy resolution. I suppose if some day every program is recorded with HD cameras or transfered to HD they could be considered HDTV channels yet still, it wouldn't have much to do with analog vs. digital. Again, I know you know all this stuff so don't get irritated that I explained it. :)

The fact that there won't be an analog version of the channels anymore to fall back to if the digital audio is screwed up (or worse, the video) is certainly true and could be an issue for those having audio / video problems (or digi channels having issues).

Well, pretty much what I expected (and stated previously) would happen happened: All but one of the local stations (that one is WKBN, but they seem to be having some technical issues with this test so I'll spare them the flack) are properly feeding TWC a direct feed rather than TWC pulling their analog OTA signal for distribution.

Went back and forth between of OTA analog and digital, through the cable box on the digital simulcast SD channels, and the analog SD channels on cable through a standard cable ready tv connected directly. Only the analog OTA channels displayed the shut-off notices. cable continued to run normal programming.

Seems to me like everyone has things sorted out at TWC and the local stations in preparation for February.

(mind you, I only have access to 21, 27, and 33 here OTA but if the low-budget stations of WFMJ and WYTV can do it right, I'm sure the likes of WJW and WKYC and others up there in Cleveland are more than capable. Regardless, all but WKBN on the cable lineup 2-11 displayed normal programming as they should)

nickdawg:
It's those funny green things that they carry around in their wallets. Formula: Less bandwidth (choke it down with propriatory codec)=more money There probably is a control on the "choke" and as it is turned up the nice new green things proliferate. Hell, 90% of the people are watching stretchovision with 20/100 vision anyway.
JJK

Well, pretty much what I expected (and stated previously) would happen happened: All but one of the local stations (that one is WKBN, but they seem to be having some technical issues with this test so I'll spare them the flack) are properly feeding TWC a direct feed rather than TWC pulling their analog OTA signal for distribution.

Went back and forth between of OTA analog and digital, through the cable box on the digital simulcast SD channels, and the analog SD channels on cable through a standard cable ready tv connected directly. Only the analog OTA channels displayed the shut-off notices. cable continued to run normal programming.

Seems to me like everyone has things sorted out at TWC and the local stations in preparation for February.

Only WKYC and WEWS are direct feeds. WOIO, WJW and the others are transfers from digital. It's obvious on WJW since I'm watching OTA analog and there's a bug on screen. It is not on cable. Plus on TWC I saw a disembodied "FOX8" bug with the WJW Digital text under it, on the SD channel.

nickdawg:
It's those funny green things that they carry around in their wallets. Formula: Less bandwidth (choke it down with propriatory codec)=more money There probably is a control on the "choke" and as it is turned up the nice new green things proliferate. Hell, 90% of the people are watching stretchovision with 20/100 vision anyway.
JJK

Agreed. In addition I'll add that there has really been no incentive up till this DTV transition mess for them to utilize anything but SD feeds for the SD channels. With this transition and stations that have the budget for full HD facilities (ie: WKYC), they can cut out the SD pipeline completely and feed one single feed for everyone and TWC can make easily just centercut or downconvert (w/letterboxing) to SD for those customers.

On a sidenote, it's one thing I have been advocating for ages so far: At least for digital cable customers, we should just cut out all SD channels for those that have HD equivalents running the same programming and just run the HD feed alone to cut on bandwidth use. The idea is that all current HD set-tops are perfectly capable of downconverting on their own and feeding an SD television through composite, s-video, or even RF coax and often does a damn fine job at it FWIW. Replace all SD boxes in the field with HD boxes and be done with it. It's not like TW's charging any more or less for the HD boxes or programming.

I missed all but the last minute of the "soft test" because I was engrossed in something recorded on my TiVo, and panicked at 7:35 and went to the live tuner. I was all ready for this and everything!

From what I gathered from quickly tuning around for that minute...on my TWC (Cleveland system) digital cable, the only place I could find the test video was on WVPX (23, cable 10). That makes sense, since I doubt they have a fiber feed to TWC, and they have only one program stream right now - analog.

WVIZ on TWC Cleveland digital cable was uninterrupted, as was 3/5/8/19/43, that I could see. 55 also appeared to be uninterrupted, though I don't know if they're doing a fiber feed (unlikely, with their studios in Cuyahoga Falls?) or a digital OTA downconversion.

I'm assuming WVIZ is a fiber feed, since WVIZ-DT, as far as I know, is still not pumping out their regular programming on any subchannel.

Only WKYC and WEWS are direct feeds. WOIO, WJW and the others are transfers from digital. It's obvious on WJW since I'm watching OTA analog and there's a bug on screen. It is not on cable. Plus on TWC I saw a disembodied "FOX8" bug with the WJW Digital text under it, on the SD channel.

Direct feed or digital OTA signal, it works. Originally you were complaining that most of these stations were supposedly being fed to TWC through the analog OTA transmissions or a similar method which is obviously not the case as seen earlier.

about my Frustration with TW and there lack of HD Channels..

I found this on another site and couldn't believe what the people in the KC area get as far as HD channel...the person who posted it.kept saying... we are getting close to what Dish/Direct give their customers..I love TW...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/CLU/TWCCLUs.ashx?CLUID=271&Zip=&Image1.x=36&Image1.y=7

I am saying...WTF....

Apparently, WVIZ will not finish their new tower in time for the transition. If I'm reading this filing correctly, they've now asked the FCC for permission to move their 10 kW signal up to a higher spot on the main WKYC tower, rather than the short tower they're on now. This will help the signal somewhat, who knows how much.

They're currently at 396' and they want to go up to 770' on the taller tower.

- Trip

On a sidenote, it's one thing I have been advocating for ages so far: At least for digital cable customers, we should just cut out all SD channels for those that have HD equivalents running the same programming and just run the HD feed alone to cut on bandwidth use. The idea is that all current HD set-tops are perfectly capable of downconverting on their own and feeding an SD television through composite, s-video, or even RF coax and often does a damn fine job at it FWIW. Replace all SD boxes in the field with HD boxes and be done with it. It's not like TW's charging any more or less for the HD boxes or programming.

Mostly agree, however this would be a monumental task for TW. They would have to switch out tens or hundreds of thousand boxes before they could switch to all-HD feeds. That itself could take at least a year or two, and that's assuming that everything went smoothly.

about my Frustration with TW and there lack of HD Channels..

I found this on another site and couldn't believe what the people in the KC area get as far as HD channel...the person who posted it.kept saying... we are getting close to what Dish/Direct give their customers..I love TW...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/CLU/TWCCLUs.ashx?CLUID=271&Zip=&Image1.x=36&Image1.y=7

I am saying...WTF....

Your link is just the general TWC "enter your zip to see what we offer in your area".

How many TWC Tier One HD ch's are offered in KC vs your area? I'm sure there are many factors behind what is offered in which region including infrastructure and competition. I don't know what the other TWC competitors in this region offer, but I know my WOW Cable has fewer HD ch's than does TWC. I suppose if their regional cable competitors are not offering much more, then they have no real incentive to out do them.

EDIT: Ironically I got a WOW email about 30 minutes after posting this. They are adding three more HD ch's (ESPN 2, Disney, ABC Family) sometime this month. But this still only brings WOW's Tier 1 HD package to 24 ch's including locals.

For those of you with DirecTV, they added WVIZ-DT yesterday.

Apparently, WVIZ will not finish their new tower in time for the transition. If I'm reading this filing correctly, they've now asked the FCC for permission to move their 10 kW signal up to a higher spot on the main WKYC tower, rather than the short tower they're on now. This will help the signal somewhat, who knows how much.

They're currently at 396' and they want to go up to 770' on the taller tower.

- Trip

So, if I understand the continuing soap opera of VIZ digital operations......

Currently VIZ and KYC share the same tower, VIZ is duct taped at a low level on that tower.

Now VIZ wants to move up higher on existing tower.

Future plans are for VIZ to share KYC's new tower (not completed yet), both VIZ and KYC are delayed going to the new tower.

Am I close? :confused:

In regards to the digital testing, I didn't even think about it. Like Inundated, I was watching a recording.

You don't need DD 5.1 to hear the noise on ch 5. It can be heard everywhere except the analog feed. It was one of those episodes that led to my realization that Dish Network was already downrezzing the Cleveland HD locals on their SD feeds. I could hear the same problem on digital OTA, satellite HD and satellite SD while the OTA analog's audio was clean.

It appears to me that the master controls of not just TV 5 but all our locals are not paying as much attention to the quality of the digital signals as they should.

I wish the powers that be in local broadcasting would take the time to read this forum.


Whatever you guys are hearing in the present, I'm not hearing it on ABC shows that I watch, and I think nickdawg pointed out that on network shows you don't hear it.

What I don't understand is why oh why is the sound so bad on WBNX. That's the worst channel on television. First there was no sound out of the back speakers, then they finally light up but it's signal is distributed more like a surround sound. However every once in a while you do hear a distinct rear channel sound.

So what I tried to do was switch to PCM and Dolby Pro Logic II. Guess what happened? It sounded EXACTLY like the Dolby 5.1 broadcast. And before anyone ask yes, I'm sure I turned Dolby off and set it to Dolby to PCM.

So, if I understand the continuing soap opera of VIZ digital operations......

Currently VIZ and KYC share the same tower, VIZ is duct taped at a low level on that tower.

Now VIZ wants to move up higher on existing tower.

Future plans are for VIZ to share KYC's new tower (not completed yet), both VIZ and KYC are delayed going to the new tower.

Am I close? :confused:

Close. My understanding is that WVIZ-DT is currently on a separate, shorter tower on WKYC's site. WVIZ wants to put that antenna near the top of the existing tower that holds WKYC-3/DT-2.

Otherwise, correct.

- Trip

Ironically I got a WOW email about 30 minutes after posting this. They are adding three more HD ch's (ESPN 2, Disney, ABC Family) sometime this month. But this still only brings WOW's Tier 1 HD package to 24 ch's including locals.
The three new channels are live today. True that WOW's HD offerings may be lighter than others, but for me, the price/service ratio is acceptable. A few months ago, I looked at switching to TWC, but for me, a comparable cable/DVR/Internet package (with the exception of more included HD) would have been ~$30-$40 more per month.

The three new channels are live today. True that WOW's HD offerings may be lighter than others, but for me, the price/service ratio is acceptable. A few months ago, I looked at switching to TWC, but for me, a comparable cable/DVR/Internet package (with the exception of more included HD) would have been ~$30-$40 more per month.

Yup, about the same calculated savings for me when I priced WOW vs TWC. :)

Close. My understanding is that WVIZ-DT is currently on a separate, shorter tower on WKYC's site. WVIZ wants to put that antenna near the top of the existing tower that holds WKYC-3/DT-2.

Otherwise, correct.

- Trip

Ohio Media Watch (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/) says WVIZ-DT is currently on "WKYC radar tower".

The three new channels are live today. True that WOW's HD offerings may be lighter than others, but for me, the price/service ratio is acceptable. A few months ago, I looked at switching to TWC, but for me, a comparable cable/DVR/Internet package (with the exception of more included HD) would have been ~$30-$40 more per month.

Never come to TW. Stay where you are at.:)

Whatever you guys are hearing in the present, I'm not hearing it on ABC shows that I watch, and I think nickdawg pointed out that on network shows you don't hear it.

What I don't understand is why oh why is the sound so bad on WBNX. That's the worst channel on television. First there was no sound out of the back speakers, then they finally light up but it's signal is distributed more like a surround sound. However every once in a while you do hear a distinct rear channel sound.

So what I tried to do was switch to PCM and Dolby Pro Logic II. Guess what happened? It sounded EXACTLY like the Dolby 5.1 broadcast. And before anyone ask yes, I'm sure I turned Dolby off and set it to Dolby to PCM.

I don't understand. Are you saying WBNX sounds bad because it is in surround sound? I remember you were complaining about the same thing I was: WBNX was identified as 5.1 but was only 2 channel. What's wrong now?

I'll have to keep the episode of "Supernatural" tonight so I can listen for the problem.

Ohio Media Watch (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/) says WVIZ-DT is currently on "WKYC radar tower".

Close, but it's not the doppler tower. WKYC has a short back-up tower with the same bat-wing antennas they use for analog ch 3 as the tall tower. I see something hanging off the side of that back-up tower.

I get a real good view of WKYC every time I go to church. Anyone interested in getting a close-up view of the WKYC tower site can pull into St. Columbkille's parking lot. If you don't like being on private property, there is a city street between St. Columbkille and WKYC called Rustic Lane. I never tried going down that street since the view is near perfect form the church lot.

I don't understand. Are you saying WBNX sounds bad because it is in surround sound? I remember you were complaining about the same thing I was: WBNX was identified as 5.1 but was only 2 channel. What's wrong now?

I'll have to keep the episode of "Supernatural" tonight so I can listen for the problem.

What I said was that at first they were broadcasting a 5.1 signal but there was no sound coming out of the rear speakers. Then you said that the back speakers were working and yes, they are, but it doesn't sound like Dolby 5.1. It sounds more like they have equal signals going to the side and back speakers.

Once in a while you will hear a solitary sound out of the back speakers but that's about it. I don't know how your system works, but my rear speakers are wireless and the device that broadcast to the wireless signal will flash when a stronger signal is received, like cheering in a football game or somthing crashing behind you. That type of thing. What I see matches up with what I hear and the light is constantly flashing with every word they say. That's not the way it's suppose to work. Matter of fact the signal is so strong that I have to dial it down to -7 to keep the rear speakers from overloading. The only other network to do that is some CBS shows. Some networks I can actually add a little to the rear speakers.

Unless they have fixed it that's what I hear as of around 11/17.

For those of you with DirecTV, they added WVIZ-DT yesterday.

Yep! WVIZ 25 is now in HD!!! Horray!

And so is Newshour!

Yep! WVIZ 25 is now in HD!!! Horray!

And so is Newshour!

Yep, caught the end of the Newshour on VIZ and it looks great in HD on D*. I guess WVIZ got their analog and digital schedules in sync now?

... but sigh ... as I flip over to channel 49 for the NewsHour at 7pm, there's no audio ... and now a white screen with a message that the channel is temporarily unavailable ... it says "no need to call us" -- who? WEAO or DirecTV ?

Yep, caught the end of the Newshour on VIZ and it looks great in HD on D*. I guess WVIZ got their analog and digital schedules in sync now?

... but sigh ... as I flip over to channel 49 for the NewsHour at 7pm, there's no audio ... and now a white screen with a message that the channel is temporarily unavailable ... it says "no need to call us" -- who? WEAO or DirecTV ?

That's interesting. My money is it's Direct TV, I've seen HD channels go down and I would call it a light gray screen, not white but YMMV. I've never seen a message like that however.

That's interesting. My money is it's Direct TV, I've seen HD channels go down and I would call it a light gray screen, not white but YMMV. I've never seen a message like that however.

49.1 and 49.2 are coming in here as usual, no problem, OTA.

That's interesting. My money is it's Direct TV, I've seen HD channels go down and I would call it a light gray screen, not white but YMMV. I've never seen a message like that however.

It just came back at 7:12pm. There was a faint swirl logo in the background of the white screen that actually looks more like the new Western Reserve PBS logo to me. ... or it could have been the DirecTV swirly "D" logo ... hard to tell. I sorta doubt D* would have been that quick to notice an audio problem on an Akron PBS station and put up a banner :D

Once the transition happens & they shutdown the analog towers are they going to increase the power/boost the signals of the Cleveland stations? I live in an apartment in shaker and get most of the analog channels in clear but I only get 5&8 digitally.

What I said was that at first they were broadcasting a 5.1 signal but there was no sound coming out of the rear speakers. Then you said that the back speakers were working and yes, they are, but it doesn't sound like Dolby 5.1. It sounds more like they have equal signals going to the side and back speakers..........

Yeah, it's still the same for WBNX. I checked it last night OTA, though at 7 pm not primetime. Coming in as DD 5.1 but only the front L/R have sound. C/SR/SL are silent.

This means they are sending a false (empty) signal to C/SR/SL. The signal is there, it's just a signal of silence. There are instances of similar false signals from other CE sources and devices doing the same thing but these are recognized as improper encoding/decoding and are usually corrected.

Yeah, it's still the same for WBNX. I checked it last night OTA, though at 7 pm not primetime. Coming in as DD 5.1 but only the front L/R have sound. C/SR/SL are silent.

This means they are sending a false (empty) signal to C/SR/SL. The signal is there, it's just a signal of silence. There are instances of similar false signals from other CE sources and devices doing the same thing but these are recognized as improper encoding/decoding and are usually corrected.

Primetime is different. You will hear sound through all speakers. It's just that it is more of a surround sound instead of Dolby 5.1. You hear talking through all side speakers.

Once the transition happens & they shutdown the analog towers are they going to increase the power/boost the signals of the Cleveland stations? I live in an apartment in shaker and get most of the analog channels in clear but I only get 5&8 digitally.

What you see now is what you get. That is the problem that many people are going to discover if they haven't already. You will need to purchase a different antenna, perhaps one that rotates or put one in your cellar.

www.antennaweb.org.

What you see now is what you get. That is the problem that many people are going to discover if they haven't already. You will need to purchase a different antenna, perhaps one that rotates or put one in your cellar.

www.antennaweb.org.

That's not exactly true. Some stations still are not at their full power yet and may not be till around the transition date. WYTV over here certainly isn't at their final transmission power rate yet. And last I checked, neither was WNEO in Akron. And WKYC I thought was going to bump theirs after they moved off of digital 2?

Maybe Inundated can recall the one website I am thinking of here cause I'm drawing a blank, but there's one that'll map out all the stations in your viewing area and tell you the Tx power and estimated signal strength in dBm from your location both current and at transition time based on current filings with the FCC.

To the original quoted poster: If you can and it's not difficult or out of your budget, get a new antenna if you don't have one or have one and it's VHF rated or just plain old.

Personally though, I'd wait around and see how things improve come february. Many stations around here are still scrambling to get their transmission locations, channel licenses, transmitting power, etc. all finalized before February. By then, some channels will improve, some may deteriorate. It's hard to tell.

To the original quoted poster: If you can and it's not difficult or out of your budget, get a new antenna if you don't have one or have one and it's VHF rated or just plain old.

Personally though, I'd wait around and see how things improve come february. Many stations around here are still scrambling to get their transmission locations, channel licenses, transmitting power, etc. all finalized before February. By then, some channels will improve, some may deteriorate. It's hard to tell.

Or you can get basic cable and you won't have to go through that.

That's not exactly true. Some stations still are not at their full power yet and may not be till around the transition date. WYTV over here certainly isn't at their final transmission power rate yet. And last I checked, neither was WNEO in Akron. And WKYC I thought was going to bump theirs after they moved off of digital 2?

Maybe Inundated can recall the one website I am thinking of here cause I'm drawing a blank, but there's one that'll map out all the stations in your viewing area and tell you the Tx power and estimated signal strength in dBm from your location both current and at transition time based on current filings with the FCC.

To the original quoted poster: If you can and it's not difficult or out of your budget, get a new antenna if you don't have one or have one and it's VHF rated or just plain old.

Personally though, I'd wait around and see how things improve come february. Many stations around here are still scrambling to get their transmission locations, channel licenses, transmitting power, etc. all finalized before February. By then, some channels will improve, some may deteriorate. It's hard to tell.

Also don't forget that WKYC-DT (3.1) which is now on physical channel 2 will be moving to physical channel 17. This should improve things for most. Channel WJW-DT (8.1) which is now on a physical channel in the 30's will be moving back to physical channel 8. WVIZ-DT is scheduled to be improving its antenna heighth and power sometime in the spring now, so that should come back eventually. WOIO-DT (19.1) is on physical channel 10 and must protect a channel 10 in London, Ontario, so I wouldn't put much hope in that improving without a better antenna on your part.

Ron J.

The antenna I am using for a digital signal is a terk indoor antenna. I could try a different one, but I use regular old rabbit ears for analog and it comes in fine. I am betting alot of other people will see something similar when the transition occurs. It's good to hear wkyc is building a new antenna, I wish CBS would make an effort.

The antenna I am using for a digital signal is a terk indoor antenna. I could try a different one, but I use regular old rabbit ears for analog and it comes in fine. I am betting alot of other people will see something similar when the transition occurs. It's good to hear wkyc is building a new antenna, I wish CBS would make an effort.

Your Terk should work for analogs as well. For that matter, your old rabbit ears should work with Digital/HD ch's.

The antenna I am using for a digital signal is a terk indoor antenna. I could try a different one, but I use regular old rabbit ears for analog and it comes in fine. I am betting alot of other people will see something similar when the transition occurs. It's good to hear wkyc is building a new antenna, I wish CBS would make an effort.

Go for WKBN DT. You're really not missing much by not having WOIO, other than CBS, which you can get through WKBN. Plus WKBN's DT-2 channel has a FOX station on it, if you have any trouble getting WJW once they mov back to the VHF side.

Once the transition happens & they shutdown the analog towers are they going to increase the power/boost the signals of the Cleveland stations? I live in an apartment in shaker and get most of the analog channels in clear but I only get 5&8 digitally.

Reception problems at this time can be due to a variety of issues. As was previously mentioned on this thread, WKYC-DT is currently using the worst channel to broadcast on digitally. WOIO-DT may be plagued with reception issues for years to come, but I wouldn't give up on it. I have my antenna perfectly positioned indoors, and I receive WOIO-DT no problem here in Akron. I would recommend the pointy Silver Sensor directional antenna for UHF signals, but it won't work on WJW and WOIO after February. You'll need a VHF antenna for those.

Another important issue is the actual tuner itself, and I'm surprised that I don't hear many people mention this on here. In the past couple years, ATSC (digital) tuners have improved. They are more capable of handling multipath (or ghosting) problems. I just purchased a new tuner, and hooked the same antenna up to it and my old tuner. The performance is so much better that there is just no comparison. I receive all channels that I can possibly receive without having to move the antenna around, and no break-ups in picture either.

Wow, pretty quiet around here today.

OK so what do you call 40 guys sitting around a television watching the Superbowl?'









The Cleveland Browns:D

OK, I'll be truthful. I got that out of Readers Digest and the real answer, appropriately is The Detroit Lions.

See - Things could be worst.;)

Wow, pretty quiet around here today.

OK so what do you call 40 guys sitting around a television watching the Superbowl?'









The Cleveland Browns:D

OK, I'll be truthful. I got that out of Readers Digest and the real answer, appropriately is The Detroit Lions.

See - Things could be worst.;)

Nah. Right about now I'd say we should be asking if we can "import" the Lions to Cleveland. We'd have a better shot that way!! :p:p:p:p:p

Also good news, no more worrying about FOX dumping our shows for the Clowns in primetime.

I can't wait to laugh my ass off at all the people going to the game in the freezing weather tomorrow.

Picture of Bill Parcells in the paper this morning----He is one bad dude.
JJK

I've noticed this as well. Seems that the audio drops out and the picture pixelates or smears about 1 time every 45 to 90 seconds. Anybody seeing this problem OTR or on another provider? I'm trying to determine if this is a problem with WOIO or DirecTV.

Thanks


This may have been discuissed in the past and I apologize for repetition. Direct TV channel 19 keeps having numerous break ups on both of my HR recveivers. 19-1 OTA on the HR20-700 is better. All other DTV channels are fine. Is there a problem with 19 on the satellite?

Count me in as well. Every minute or 2 (although it is not that consistent) the picture will break up and the sound will skip for a second or so, and then correct itself. It is the same effect as when the weather is bad and the signal starts to go. This is only on WOIO-HD on my 2 DirecTV receivers.

I've noticed this as well. Seems that the audio drops out and the picture pixelates or smears about 1 time every 45 to 90 seconds. Anybody seeing this problem OTR or on another provider? I'm trying to determine if this is a problem with WOIO or DirecTV.

Thanks

Also having breakups on WOIO-HD via D*. I've seen this same problem on other CBS games earlier in the season.

One of the pregame shows called this the "Toilet Bowl" :D

I have also gotten the WOIO-DT breakups, via TWC 404.

Not a big deal, but noticeable.

The way the Browns are playing, perhaps the picture should break up more often. :D

The way the Browns are playing, perhaps the picture should break up more often. :D

DING DING DING.....We have a winner!;)

DING DING DING.....We have a winner!;)

At this point, I'm more than willing to see them put Josh Cribbs in at quarterback. Give Ken Dorsey the rest of his career off.

Heck, at this point, I'm willing to see Cribbs replace Romeo as coach.

:D

I just took a look at the NFL Standings. There are plenty of teams with records worst then Cleveland including my Raiders and Cincinnati.

Right now they just don't have anybody to play. Not really their fault, that's the only reason Cincinnati is winning.

But even when the Browns had "people to play", they stunk compared to 2007.

Derek Anderson turned into his old self. Braylon Edwards has three TD receptions all year, and more dropped passes than anyone in the league. Jamal Lewis hasn't had a game over 100 yards all year, and looks spent. This is not just about injuries. The last two are playing in today's game.

Oh, and Dorsey threw another pick. The team has nothing to lose to put Cribbs or ANYONE else in there! :D

But even when the Browns had "people to play", they stunk compared to 2007.

Derek Anderson turned into his old self. Braylon Edwards has three TD receptions all year, and more dropped passes than anyone in the league. Jamal Lewis hasn't had a game over 100 yards all year, and looks spent. This is not just about injuries. The last two are playing in today's game.

Oh, and Dorsey threw another pick. The team has nothing to lose to put Cribbs or ANYONE else in there! :D

Well, you got your wish and you've seen the results. Change quarterback, another interception. Gradcowski isn't any better.

I honestly think that they have no idea of how to play football. Who is that commentating? He seems to know what's going on more then Romeo.

This game stinks. The telecast stinks. Both of these teams stink. When they pan the stadium you see more empty seats then fans. What a waste of good air time.

This game stinks. The telecast stinks. Both of these teams stink. When they pan the stadium you see more empty seats then fans. What a waste of good air time.

It was so bad, I would have called WOIO demanding Steelers/Titans - if I didn't know the NFL rules force us to watch this horrible game.

OK, who's left that they can try at QB... :D I didn't actually "wish" for Bruce What's-His-Name, only suggesting that they sure couldn't do any worse than they have with Dorsey. It turned out not worse, but the same. ;)

I really REALLY like Romeo... but it's time to go. We need a no_holds_barred tough guy in the coaching position now that will whip these guys into shape. They are outright PITIFUL. They are talented and capable, but just don't have any "drive" or "incentive". SOmeone needs to light a fire under their butts and wake thaem up. Romeo is just too nice, and nice guys finish last.

In something actually close to being on topic here...

It looks like TWC's Cleveland system is indeed now feeding the cable channel 4 analog/SD feed from the center-cut HD feed...I'm assuming OTA.

The cable channel 4 feed did the very same audio stutter and changed slightly when WOIO ran that stupid "watch our 5th quarter!" show crawl during the CBS postgame show just now. The "drop to SD" made the cable channel 4 picture look less sharp.

In something actually close to being on topic here...

It looks like TWC's Cleveland system is indeed now feeding the cable channel 4 analog/SD feed from the center-cut HD feed...I'm assuming OTA.

The cable channel 4 feed did the very same audio stutter and changed slightly when WOIO ran that stupid "watch our 5th quarter!" show crawl during the CBS postgame show just now. The "drop to SD" made the cable channel 4 picture look less sharp.

I saw that during the game. It went to SD and I thought, wow, not only is this game bad they decided so many people switched channels, will go to SD.

Then the sound went out right after the last game they showed. And now the sound is out on FOX. What the heck is going on today?

OK. I just changed channels real quick and the sound was back. So either it's the cable, it's a matter of chance, or it's my TiVo S3.

Anybody else notice the sound disappear on FOX or WOIO?

I have sound on FOX and WOIO. Maybe your Tivo is the one at fault? :p:p:p:p
http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/images/071207_bush_santa.jpg

I have sound on FOX and WOIO. Maybe your Tivo is the one at fault? :p:p:p:p
http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/images/071207_bush_santa.jpg

I've noticed that I don't have sound sometimes when I first turn on the television. I've just changed channels and didn't think anything of it until it happened twice today.

But no problem with any recordings, as far as I know. I actually don't think it's TiVo, but very likely something to do with the cable cards. Whenever anything does go wrong that's usually the culprit.

I've noticed that I don't have sound sometimes when I first turn on the television. I've just changed channels and didn't think anything of it until it happened twice today.

But no problem with any recordings, as far as I know. I actually don't think it's TiVo, but very likely something to do with the cable cards. Whenever anything does go wrong that's usually the culprit.

Exactly the reason why I stick with cable company equipment. Cable cards are crap. That OCAP cable card box from the cable company was bad enough. I'd never actually spend money on something that will perform like that.

I'd really like to see cable cards abolished. Addressable settop boxes with built in conditional access have worked the best. It's been the system for the past 30+ years. What they need to come out with is a Tivo box issued by TWC that requires no cable car, but has the features of Tivo.

Of course I'd still want my SA8300HD with SARA! :D:D

Exactly the reason why I stick with cable company equipment. Cable cards are crap. That OCAP cable card box from the cable company was bad enough. I'd never actually spend money on something that will perform like that.

I'd really like to see cable cards abolished. Addressable settop boxes with built in conditional access have worked the best. It's been the system for the past 30+ years. What they need to come out with is a Tivo box issued by TWC that requires no cable car, but has the features of Tivo.

Of course I'd still want my SA8300HD with SARA! :D:D

Cable cards are not going away, and they will be used with tru2way.

And if you were a Comcast customer, TiVo has a contract with them to provide TiVo service. Now how much TiVo service they provide, I don't know but it does have the interface. There is another cable company involved too but I don't remember their name. In addition TiVo just reached an agreement to provide D* customers once again with TiVo because their customers did not like the DVR that they were forced to switch to (another Murdock idea).:rolleyes:

Anyway I'm not convinced that it wasn't either broadcast problems or a TW problem. It didn't go on for a long time and it could have been a coincidence that it came back after I changed channels. In any case you don't want SARA, despite what you think it's pretty bad. You were fortunate to have Passport. And unfortunately what they stuck you with is worst.

You are correct about cable cards being a pia but you got to remember that what works well in one area may not work well in another. Even within the old Adelphia area people had different problems with SARA or had no problem at all. And the reason, I believe, is because Adelphia bought all these mom & pop cable companies that all ran different equipment and never bothered to synchronize them to one system. Hence the development of the cable card which all new DVR's have.

So if I were you and you don't want a cable card, make sure you keep your DVR well ventilated and dust free, because when the hard drive goes, and it will, you will have to get one of those awful cable card boxes.:eek::p;)

You are correct about cable cards being a pia but you got to remember that what works well in one area may not work well in another. Even within the old Adelphia area people had different problems with SARA or had no problem at all. And the reason, I believe, is because Adelphia bought all these mom & pop cable companies that all ran different equipment and never bothered to synchronize them to one system. Hence the development of the cable card which all new DVR's have.

I've never read anything positive about OCAP boxes, SARA or Navigator. ;) And that's probably why the channel change and the navigator transition is taking longer in the Adelphia areas. They have many more smaller systems to work with. I get the feeling that's gonna interfere with SDV as well. :mad::mad: Oh well, at least my area has Navigator and SDV. Once more channels are moved to SDV, we're ready for the HD channels to start lighting up! :p:p

So if I were you and you don't want a cable card, make sure you keep your DVR well ventilated and dust free, because when the hard drive goes, and it will, you will have to get one of those awful cable card boxes.:eek::p;)

If the hard drive fails, I'll just have a 8300HD cable box with no DVR. On Navigator, DVR is a setting that can be disabled. When it first downloaded, I had what was like a non-DVR box and had to call to activate it. So as long as nothing else is affected, I'll just be without a DVR. :(

I saw that during the game. It went to SD and I thought, wow, not only is this game bad they decided so many people switched channels, will go to SD.

But...I had the game recorded on my TiVo*, in SD off of cable channel 4, and it did the same thing. The SD picture got worse, believe it or not, because of WOIO doing the down/upconverting (CBS SD picture upconverted to 1080i during the time they were running the crawl, also downconverted to SD off of the center cut and reencoded to SD digital on 4 via the cable box picking up the SD QAM feed).

Oh, and I saw a handful of the same dropouts we saw on the HD side.

I'm assuming if WOIO was fed by fiber, they'd have an SD fiber feed (existing for some time), with no need to center cut an HD feed.

I'm wondering if even the stations that do fiber will eventually go this route, since the cable companies would be the only source of their analog output after 2/17/09.


* - No, I'm not stupid enough to set this game up to record, as bad as the Browns are. My TiVo has two ARWLs (auto-record wish lists) that pick up every Browns game automatically...set up last year, when the team didn't stink up the stadium.

IMO, WOIO-SD analog here in Akron on TWC still looks like crap. It seems more blurry than the others, and the color is off too. WKYC and WEWS both look good and WJW looks better since they went to the center cut HD feed.

IMO, WOIO-SD analog here in Akron on TWC still looks like crap. It seems more blurry than the others, and the color is off too. WKYC and WEWS both look good and WJW looks better since they went to the center cut HD feed.

WOIO is suffering since SD programming on WOIO DT looks like crap. Remember the Browns in SD in 2007? WOIO's SD programming looked worse on 404 than on the regular channel.

WJW and WBNX are fantastic. The ghosting and interference lines on WBNX are gone. You can actually read on-screen text. WJW used to have a green shadow on SD, now it is clear and the colors look right.

WKYC looks like crap. They are a fiber feed(which is understandable as WKYC DT is impossible to get OTA). I get a hazy looking picture. Black screens are not black. They look greenish-gray and fuzzy. Looks like "digitized" analog.

WEWS looks about the same, since it is still the SD feed. I really wish they would start taking WEWS SD from the HD channel, as ABC HD has no on-screen clutter like ABC SD has.

And yes. ALL stations will be downconverting HD starting in February. Even the stations fed by fiber feed, cable/satellite will be using those to feed SD, as some are now. Once analog OTA stations go away, there will be no need for networks to send separate SD and HD feeds(as NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX)currently do. That's why we've seen the network bugs move on HD channels and networks like CBS now put the same advertising crap on their HD channel too.

WOIO SD is completely off right now on TWC. HD is working fine but SD is just a blank screen. Maybe(hopefully) they are fixing it since the PQ was less than stellar before. Looked blurry and dark.

This isn't specifically about the NEO DTV market, but as we approach the X-Mas shopping, post X-Mas shopping and the DTV conversion coming up, I suspect many more in our area might be poking around this forum. I'm sure we all know friends, family, neighbors who are in the market for HDTV's so you might want to share this video with them. ;)

This is a CBC TV reporter investigating the "high end" HDMI cables people are snatching up at the retailers. The unwitting consumers get robbed buying a $260 HDMI "premium" cable that performs just as well as a $12 HDMI cable. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIf8HLZK6a8

The report narrows in on the HDMI cable hype and price gouging aspect, but it's really a general report on the fact that the retailers make very minimal markups on the main item (HDTV in this case) and that the REAL profit (robbery in my opinion) is on the "extras" like cables, extended warranties, mounts, etc...

I've never read anything positive about OCAP boxes, SARA or Navigator. ;) And that's probably why the channel change and the navigator transition is taking longer in the Adelphia areas. They have many more smaller systems to work with. I get the feeling that's gonna interfere with SDV as well. :mad::mad: Oh well, at least my area has Navigator and SDV. Once more channels are moved to SDV, we're ready for the HD channels to start lighting up! :p:p

I thought I read that SARA had a spot for SDV so it was ready to go. Well, at least it was suppose to be. Lord knows if it actually is.



If the hard drive fails, I'll just have a 8300HD cable box with no DVR. On Navigator, DVR is a setting that can be disabled. When it first downloaded, I had what was like a non-DVR box and had to call to activate it. So as long as nothing else is affected, I'll just be without a DVR. :(

You can get a set top box that works just fine. At least mine does. Even with cable cards in it. And you would save money, you wouldn't pay for DVR or DVR service.

This isn't specifically about the NEO DTV market, but as we approach the X-Mas shopping, post X-Mas shopping and the DTV conversion coming up, I suspect many more in our area might be poking around this forum. I'm sure we all know friends, family, neighbors who are in the market for HDTV's so you might want to share this video with them. ;)

This is a CBC TV reporter investigating the "high end" HDMI cables people are snatching up at the retailers. The unwitting consumers get robbed buying a $260 HDMI "premium" cable that performs just as well as a $12 HDMI cable. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIf8HLZK6a8

The report narrows in on the HDMI cable hype and price gouging aspect, but it's really a general report on the fact that the retailers make very minimal markups on the main item (HDTV in this case) and that the REAL profit (robbery in my opinion) is on the "extras" like cables, extended warranties, mounts, etc...

They pulled that on me when I got my first HDTV, my CRT Sony Wega. The sales person said you needed Monster Cables because, "don't you want the best picture and sound available." Like a sap I bought it and then like that afternoon or evening I read a post somewhere in the AVS Forum about Monster Cables. I placed my order through mono cable and when they arrived I went back to Best Buy and got my refund. Total cost of cables from Mono was like 15.00. Best Buy, 200.00.

They pulled that on me when I got my first HDTV, my CRT Sony Wega. The sales person said you needed Monster Cables because, "don't you want the best picture and sound available." Like a sap I bought it and then like that afternoon or evening I read a post somewhere in the AVS Forum about Monster Cables. I placed my order through mono cable and when they arrived I went back to Best Buy and got my refund. Total cost of cables from Mono was like 15.00. Best Buy, 200.00.

uh huh ;):D:cool:

My brothers kid worked for Best Buy and he got an employee discount, but when it came to high end televisions there wasn't much discount. They are marked as cheap as they can go, and they make it up with those cable.

One day I was looking for a digital optical cable and I was in Target. They had 1 Monster Cable, clearance for 15.00. I bought that.;)

My brothers kid worked for Best Buy and he got an employee discount, but when it came to high end televisions there wasn't much discount. They are marked as cheap as they can go, and they make it up with those cable.

One day I was looking for a digital optical cable and I was in Target. They had 1 Monster Cable, clearance for 15.00. I bought that.;)

Yeah, that's true with most of the hardware devices (tv's, stereos, dvd players, computers) where the markup is so little that retailer employees can often get a better deal online compared to their employee discount.

It's actually quite funny that people will spend HOURS researching the price on the main item to save $200, then overpay $300 on the overpriced accessories. In most cases, paying full retail for the main item but buying the accessories online like at a Monoprice source (like you, one of my favorites) would actually net more savings to the average consumer. Combining both ways is really the way to go. ;)

http://www.monoprice.com

Etch the name into your brain, and don't ever buy cables at you local B&M ripoff store.
There's even a link at the top of every page here on AVS for your convenience. ;)

Go for WKBN DT. You're really not missing much by not having WOIO, other than CBS, which you can get through WKBN. Plus WKBN's DT-2 channel has a FOX station on it, if you have any trouble getting WJW once they mov back to the VHF side.
I second that endorsement for WKBN-DT! The only thing you will miss are an occasional Browns game over the Steelers, as was the case yesterday. You can't blame WKBN for going with the Steelers yesterday. That matchup was more interesting than our game anyway.

BTW: I got to see both via PIP. Having WKBN-DT (w/WYFX on 27-2) + WOIO + WJW = the poor man's Sunday Ticket :D

http://www.monoprice.com

Etch the name into your brain, and don't ever buy cables at you local B&M ripoff store.
There's even a link at the top of every page here on AVS for your convenience. ;)

Or use the link convieniently provided above by our AVSforum.
Ray

I second that endorsement for WKBN-DT! The only thing you will miss are an occasional Browns game over the Steelers, as was the case yesterday. You can't blame WKBN for going with the Steelers yesterday. That matchup was more interesting than our game anyway.

BTW: I got to see both via PIP. Having WKBN-DT (w/WYFX on 27-2) + WOIO + WJW = the poor man's Sunday Ticket :D

Hey, three is better than one! Plus, Sunday ticket is ridiculously expensive!

You can get a set top box that works just fine. At least mine does. Even with cable cards in it. And you would save money, you wouldn't pay for DVR or DVR service.

The non-DVR boxes with Navigator are worse than the DVR boxes. I have one, even though it doesn't use the cable cards, it still is bad. The UI is slower than the DVR(although it is an old Pioneer box) and features like "pressing B to search for programs" do not work since it takes forever for the list to load and your program gets blacked out while it loads the data.

And even though the Navigator on the 8300HD is decent(I just threw up in my mouth!), the Navigator used on the cable card boxes is an entirely different animal. The OCAP boxes use ODN=OCAP Digital Navigator. There are minor differences in the appearance of the UI, plus it is extremely slow and full of bugs. The 8300HD runs circles around the HDC, and the HDC is supposed to be newer and have more memory. BUT, the ODN also has additional software for OCAP.

It seems like the version of SARA they're using for non-DVR boxes is better than Navigator. Which would make sense since the box is SA, the operating system is SA. They're sticking with compatible products. Plus, I have much more faith in an actual product than I would in some third party loaded diaper from a company like TWC. Many of the problems you have mentioned with the SARA DVR are similar to what happened with Passport in the early days. Over the years, through updates, it developed into a stable, reliable DVR. My guess is it is not SARA that is the problem, but the cable company. Since it was a company composed of small, mickey mouse operations, and the fact the bosses went to prison, it's no surprise customers were neglected.

The non-DVR boxes with Navigator are worse than the DVR boxes. I have one, even though it doesn't use the cable cards, it still is bad. The UI is slower than the DVR(although it is an old Pioneer box) and features like "pressing B to search for programs" do not work since it takes forever for the list to load and your program gets blacked out while it loads the data.

And even though the Navigator on the 8300HD is decent(I just threw up in my mouth!), the Navigator used on the cable card boxes is an entirely different animal. The OCAP boxes use ODN=OCAP Digital Navigator. There are minor differences in the appearance of the UI, plus it is extremely slow and full of bugs. The 8300HD runs circles around the HDC, and the HDC is supposed to be newer and have more memory. BUT, the ODN also has additional software for OCAP.

It seems like the version of SARA they're using for non-DVR boxes is better than Navigator. Which would make sense since the box is SA, the operating system is SA. They're sticking with compatible products. Plus, I have much more faith in an actual product than I would in some third party loaded diaper from a company like TWC. Many of the problems you have mentioned with the SARA DVR are similar to what happened with Passport in the early days. Over the years, through updates, it developed into a stable, reliable DVR. My guess is it is not SARA that is the problem, but the cable company. Since it was a company composed of small, mickey mouse operations, and the fact the bosses went to prison, it's no surprise customers were neglected.

Oh nickdawg, by your own admission you say you have an old pioneer box and I'm not talking about that. SARA seems to work fine for HD with the new boxes, I think SA 5600. SARA worked fine when I had the DVR watching something live. It just was a piece of crap at recording.

Who knows what the "problem" was? All I know is that as a DVR it sucked.

Any more word on SDV for NE Ohio? I am part of the old Adelphia system out of Strongsville, and I have recently picked up my 3rd TV with a cable-card. (LT-52149) Since tru2ways sets are not yet out, I wanted to get an idea on when to expect SDV in my area. I fully expect EVERYONE to show tru2ways sets at CES in January.

I, like everyone else, enjoy new HD stations, but will not move to a cable box with extra wires and power plugs. Until tru2way is available, I will make due with whatever non SDV channels are available. For the most part I don't watch all the stations that are available now on my bronze digital pack.

What is more likely now that analog TV is going away soon; removing or pairing back the existing analog stations to get more bandwidth, or moving to SDV?

Hey, three is better than one! Plus, Sunday ticket is ridiculously expensive!
It's actually four different stations! It was better in previous seasons, this year the Youngstown stations were mostly in lockstep with the Cleveland stations up until this last Sunday.

At the very least, whenever the Browns play at home and the opposite network (usually FOX) has the doubleheder, WJW would not be able to show a competing game, but WYFX via WKBN-DT 27-2 would carry a competing game. Another senerio would be if FOX did not have the doubleheader but the big national game is on at the same time as a home Browns game, WJW would have to show a game after (or before in the case of a Browns 4 PM start) the timeslot of the Browns game. WYFX may have a competing game which would create a quasi-doubleheader for FOX on a week when CBS had the real doulble header.

This year the bye week and the weeks when the Browns were on primetime national games there were no differences betwen Cleveland & Youngstown stations. In years past there could be up to 4 unique games.

Hey, three is better than one! Plus, Sunday ticket is ridiculously expensive!

Hey, we all must pay the gods! :) ... & their talents don't come cheap either. ;)

Go for WKBN DT. You're really not missing much by not having WOIO, other than CBS, which you can get through WKBN. Plus WKBN's DT-2 channel has a FOX station on it, if you have any trouble getting WJW once they mov back to the VHF side.


It would be nice to have that choice, I don't even get a heartbeat of a signal fome any of the Y-town stations even though they claim to be covering up here.

Ditto with PBS 45/49

Apparently, WVIZ will not finish their new tower in time for the transition. If I'm reading this filing correctly, they've now asked the FCC for permission to move their 10 kW signal up to a higher spot on the main WKYC tower, rather than the short tower they're on now. This will help the signal somewhat, who knows how much.

They're currently at 396' and they want to go up to 770' on the taller tower.

- Trip

Thank you again for the info Trip, so the 12/19 date is now meaningless?

Hey, we all must pay the gods! :) ... & their talents don't come cheap either. ;)

When I had D-TiVo back in Northern KY I requested permission to receive the L.A. and New York hook ups. At that time they still wern't broadcasting locals and Cincinnati locals would just say OK, no problem. Then they got the locals and I still got to keep my New York and L.A. stations.

Since L.A. has no football teams I could always count on seeing the Raiders on KCBS and of course whatever was on FOX. Then there were the Giants and Jets and if one of those teams wern't playing I would get whomever they were showing. And after the locals started being shown I got Cincinnati as well.

Now that was cool, and all it cost was $10.00 a month.

Thank you again for the info Trip, so the 12/19 date is now meaningless?

Yes. There were "unforseen delays" such that it won't be done until after the transition date which means WKYC-DT 17 won't be ready by then either.

- Trip

That's not exactly true. Some stations still are not at their full power yet and may not be till around the transition date. WYTV over here certainly isn't at their final transmission power rate yet. And last I checked, neither was WNEO in Akron. And WKYC I thought was going to bump theirs after they moved off of digital 2?

Maybe Inundated can recall the one website I am thinking of here cause I'm drawing a blank, but there's one that'll map out all the stations in your viewing area and tell you the Tx power and estimated signal strength in dBm from your location both current and at transition time based on current filings with the FCC.

To the original quoted poster: If you can and it's not difficult or out of your budget, get a new antenna if you don't have one or have one and it's VHF rated or just plain old.

Personally though, I'd wait around and see how things improve come february. Many stations around here are still scrambling to get their transmission locations, channel licenses, transmitting power, etc. all finalized before February. By then, some channels will improve, some may deteriorate. It's hard to tell.


So there is hope yet? I've noticed some of the newer permits will levitate more of a better signal to the west & slightly degrade the signal to the east. Actually Northern Ashtabula & eastern Lake counties do not have full coverage from all of the networks.

Unsure if the Weather will play an effect on what will happen in February either, I'mm sure many will wait for the wx to break in the spring for final placements.

I was picking up 68-1 & 68-2 (Physical channel 12) a few weeks back for an evening, claims to be Americas first all digital independent station?

Any updates on weather or not any subs will be added?? I'm surprised 43-2 hasn't gone dark to save power.

WMFD-DT boosted power not too long ago, and yes, they had to drop their analog signal to replace the antenna with a digital channel 12 one in order to be able to boost power as they did. (That was a horrid sentence)

43-2 being on or off doesn't really affect the power bill one way or another. 19.393 Mbps has to be transmitted one way or another.

- Trip

WMFD just seemed to be a one time shot, though it's nice to have a choice at times :) (Most of you seem to get much more OTA than I do) Up here NE of the city seems to be neglected by the home market. Speaking of which I haven't had much trouble at all lately with 3 & 19, but 5 which I never had a problem with occasionally pixelizes now.

On a second thought, I DO have WICU 12 out of Erie that competes on 12.

Yes. There were "unforseen delays" such that it won't be done until after the transition date which means WKYC-DT 17 won't be ready by then either.

- Trip

So it really isn't necessary for WKYC to vacate 2 on 2/17?

43-2 being on or off doesn't really affect the power bill one way or another. 19.393 Mbps has to be transmitted one way or another.

But isn't the signal somewhat degraded on 43.1 then?

When I had D-TiVo back in Northern KY I requested permission to receive the L.A. and New York hook ups. At that time they still wern't broadcasting locals and Cincinnati locals would just say OK, no problem. Then they got the locals and I still got to keep my New York and L.A. stations.

Since L.A. has no football teams I could always count on seeing the Raiders on KCBS and of course whatever was on FOX. Then there were the Giants and Jets and if one of those teams wern't playing I would get whomever they were showing. And after the locals started being shown I got Cincinnati as well.

Now that was cool, and all it cost was $10.00 a month.

I wish I could get NY/LA locals. Cleveland TV is horrendous. There's a HUGE drop between markets 1, 2, even 3 and 17(where Cleveland is). I've seen some things, things that belong on +50, +100 markets. Mostly on channel 19. And now channel 3 is starting to suck more than an industrial Hoover in the news department. Single anchor formats, more cuts.

It would be nice to have that choice, I don't even get a heartbeat of a signal from any of the Y-town stations even though they claim to be covering up here.

Ditto with PBS 45/49
What you need is a 40' tower to get your antenna over the terrain obstruction that is between you and Y'town. WKBN-DT's signal does reach out your way, it just gets mangled by the high ground along the southern border of Lake County.

If you lived on that high ground you'd be all set.

I wish I could get NY/LA locals. Cleveland TV is horrendous. There's a HUGE drop between markets 1, 2, even 3 and 17(where Cleveland is). I've seen some things, things that belong on +50, +100 markets. Mostly on channel 19. And now channel 3 is starting to suck more than an industrial Hoover in the news department. Single anchor formats, more cuts.

The main thing with the super markets is there are many more channels OTA, even prior HD. In L.A. and N.Y. just in VHF there is 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13. Back in the old days, or as they say today "the day" all that crap you see on local TV went to the non network stations. Now technically speaking there really isn't any "non network" station in L.A. with the exception of channel 9, but that is now owned by CBS. And with more local OTA you get coverage of sports teams without cable like Lakers, Angels, Dodgers, and Clippers though they also appear on prime ticket as well. So no preempt of regular network programs, unless it's on those mickey mouse networks like CW and My.

With a large Latino population L.A. will always have televised OTA of baseball.

Plus it would be cool to see other Hispanic programming outlets, like channel 61. I'll bet LA doesn't have TWO channels that broadcast nothing but Paid Programming OTA(23 and 67). I'd always like to see something else come here, maybe another Spanish or the Retro TV Network. 67 is a complete waste, should sing off if no other network is shown, and 23 is in the same boat. That PAX/ION/whatever channel sucks too.

So it really isn't necessary for WKYC to vacate 2 on 2/17?

They've received an STA to remain on channel 2 until the new tower is finished. Not sure how long that'll be, but you know they're just itching to get it on the air.

But isn't the signal somewhat degraded on 43.1 then?

Of course, but the way you phrased it, it sounded like you thought that keeping 43-2 cost them extra money, which it really doesn't.

- Trip

But isn't the signal somewhat degraded on 43.1 then?


Of course, but the way you phrased it, it sounded like you thought that keeping 43-2 cost them extra money, which it really doesn't.

- Trip

It does degrade the signal on 43-1, since MNTV doesn't use the FOX splicer system and the picture is not "pre-degraded" as FOX is. But 43-1 is still nowhere near as bad as 19-1. I still say that weather subchannel should go away or move to 43, since it seems there is no plan to replace "the Tube" channel.

According to TWC, WKYC Weather Plus will no longer be carried on 12/31, so I assume that is when WP officially shuts down. I really hope WKYC reclaims that bandwidth for 3-1 and doesn't keep a ghost channel running like WUAB.

Any more word on SDV for NE Ohio? I am part of the old Adelphia system out of Strongsville, and I have recently picked up my 3rd TV with a cable-card. (LT-52149) Since tru2ways sets are not yet out, I wanted to get an idea on when to expect SDV in my area. I fully expect EVERYONE to show tru2ways sets at CES in January.

I heard from a TWC Rep that SDV would be January and new HD channels in February, but then who believes a TWC Rep?

I heard from a TWC Rep that SDV would be January and new HD channels in February, but then who believes a TWC Rep?

Interesting. They already have SDV on the shopping channel tier, 185-XXX. I guess it is good news to hear more HD channels in February. They were right about it when they said channels were coming in March. And they did come in March.

I also remember a service tech saying they were adding Scifi HD. This was in (early)2007.

The only trouble I have is with 67.1, 49.1 which fluctuate a bit. All the rest are in fat city including the 17.1 series.
JJK

What you need is a 40' tower to get your antenna over the terrain obstruction that is between you and Y'town. WKBN-DT's signal does reach out your way, it just gets mangled by the high ground along the southern border of Lake County.

If you lived on that high ground you'd be all set.

Since I'm in a condo impossible for a tower but I get the point I'm below the 'ridge'. I do know someone in Kirtland using an Omni amplified by RS, that is having somewhat more difficulty than me, they are getting everything I am less 55 Digital.

I don't know where the threshold is, My primary antenna is on a 2 story structure on a peak with about a 3-4 foot mast. I also have an attic setup for backup, though my analog especially from Canada & Toledo seems better through my attic antenna, although pointed at the farm, go figure.

I've also added a 15 db small set amp which may or may not be helping at least with the locals, I haven't figured that out yet. I do know this set amp helps with 23 analog on the outdoor antenna, & with the UHF analog on my attic antenna.

One of Erie's Channels is suppose to make it as far west as Mentor, time will tell.

It does degrade the signal on 43-1, since MNTV doesn't use the FOX splicer system and the picture is not "pre-degraded" as FOX is. But 43-1 is still nowhere near as bad as 19-1. I still say that weather subchannel should go away or move to 43, since it seems there is no plan to replace "the Tube" channel.

19 & 43 are related, might make sense.

According to TWC, WKYC Weather Plus will no longer be carried on 12/31, so I assume that is when WP officially shuts down. I really hope WKYC reclaims that bandwidth for 3-1 and doesn't keep a ghost channel running like WUAB.

I'll miss 3's wx+ (especially whatshername ;) ), no plans to move it elsewhere, or revive it on another sub? Was this NBC's decision or WKYC's? DTV really isn't even up & running & they are allready canceling these nice creature comforts like this & the Tube.

The weather subs on 11.2 & 68.2 were very degraded.

Plus it would be cool to see other Hispanic programming outlets, like channel 61. I'll bet LA doesn't have TWO channels that broadcast nothing but Paid Programming OTA(23 and 67). I'd always like to see something else come here, maybe another Spanish or the Retro TV Network. 67 is a complete waste, should sing off if no other network is shown, and 23 is in the same boat. That PAX/ION/whatever channel sucks too.


23??? I thought it was 32? I think the days of independents are gone due to the intervention of cable superstations.... I miss those stations with old movies, & syndicated cartoons... what happened to Johnny Socco & Ultraman?:(

I'll miss 3's wx+ (especially whatshername ;) ), no plans to move it elsewhere, or revive it on another sub? Was this NBC's decision or WKYC's? DTV really isn't even up & running & they are allready canceling these nice creature comforts like this & the Tube.

The weather subs on 11.2 & 68.2 were very degraded.

NBC is dumping the service after purchasing the Weather Channel on cable. I had mixed feelings. I like Weather Plus because the weather is always on. On the cable channel, they show commercials and other crap. Whenever I turn on TWC, the local weather usually isn't on.

But I will be even happier if WKYC broadcasts at full HD bandwidth.

NBC is dumping the service after purchasing the Weather Channel on cable. I had mixed feelings. I like Weather Plus because the weather is always on. On the cable channel, they show commercials and other crap. Whenever I turn on TWC, the local weather usually isn't on.

But I will be even happier if WKYC broadcasts at full HD bandwidth.

Ditto on that, every time I check the Weather Channel (when I'm somewhere with cable) nothing but commercials.... even though WX+ showed commercials at times on an inset, at least it wasn't an annoyance.

Figures cable would be involved. :(

I was really hoping that TWC on cable would pick up the same type of graphics system. Right now it looks like they frame all the shots on TWC to leave enough room on the bottom for the local conditions banner. It would be better to to have the "L-bar" style graphic like Weather Plus OTA. They could run local conditions all the time on the bottom and put national stuff on the left side.

...............
According to TWC, WKYC Weather Plus will no longer be carried on 12/31, so I assume that is when WP officially shuts down. I really hope WKYC reclaims that bandwidth for 3-1 and doesn't keep a ghost channel running like WUAB.

Thank god! What a waste of air wave. If we're lucky 19-2 will follow. :D

I heard from a TWC Rep that SDV would be January and new HD channels in February, but then who believes a TWC Rep?

Plenty of people. But it's encouraging that the rep even knew what SDV was!;)

Interesting. They already have SDV on the shopping channel tier, 185-XXX. I guess it is good news to hear more HD channels in February. They were right about it when they said channels were coming in March. And they did come in March.

I also remember a service tech saying they were adding Scifi HD. This was in (early)2007.

Being Akron your on the original TW buildouts? Here in Adelphia land I still get the shopping channgels (185-xxx) with my cable card, so no SDV here.

Yesterday afternoon I experienced another loss of sound on WOIO HD. Using the channel up feature on my remote, I attempted to get the next HD channel only to get a gray screen!

I kept channel up to a couple of other screens that should be HD then I got ESPN Espanol. Um, I don't pay for that level of service just basic digital. Then I punched in manually 404 and there it was. When I pushed the info key the other tuner was on WKYC. The picture and sound were both there.

Scary with the timing, I'm sure my contact at TW is off for the holidays.

Being Akron your on the original TW buildouts? Here in Adelphia land I still get the shopping channgels (185-xxx) with my cable card, so no SDV here.

He's looking at channels in the 900's. I think if you go up there and punch in the channel you will see it too. I do with my TiVo which is not SDV.

nickdawg I know you want to be optimistic but TW reps really don't have any idea of what is going to come on in the next couple of months. My TW head end person says there is not time date set for anything, simply that they are "working" on it. I asked her two weeks ago.

I was really hoping that TWC on cable would pick up the same type of graphics system. Right now it looks like they frame all the shots on TWC to leave enough room on the bottom for the local conditions banner. It would be better to to have the "L-bar" style graphic like Weather Plus OTA. They could run local conditions all the time on the bottom and put national stuff on the left side.

So you get a WX forecast on your cable?

Nice, but I still can't justify $40-50+ a month for this.

I guess we are living in the age where it's assumed that everyone has Cable, A cell ect.

No more freebees I guess :(

Thank god! What a waste of air wave. If we're lucky 19-2 will follow. :D


You didn't like this feature?? I liked 3's a bit better than the one on 19.

I'll now return you to chat on cable & other pay services.... ;)

Everyone have a good holiday! :)

You didn't like this feature?? I liked 3's a bit better than the one on 19.

I'll now return you to chat on cable & other pay services.... ;)

Everyone have a good holiday! :)

Nah, with all the other weather outlets available it just seems silly to me. Weather Ch (is that on basic cable?), Weather.com, buy a weather radio for $10, newspaper, phone weather, psychic neighbors.

If there is anything of importance (and even then 90% of the warnings are pointless) it will be plastered over all the locals with the silly weather warnings. Now, a *proper* use of a local weather sub-ch: put a SMALL little dot on the main ch indicating some sort of weather warning/alert, then (for those who give a hoot) they can turn to that weather sub-ch and watch the radar images and warnings for Huron County to their hearts content!

I live in NEO, I expect it to snow, I don't need a bunch of silly warnings telling me ................................... it's going to snow. :D

Nah, with all the other weather outlets available it just seems silly to me. Weather Ch (is that on basic cable?), Weather.com, buy a weather radio for $10, newspaper, phone weather, psychic neighbors.

If there is anything of importance (and even then 90% of the warnings are pointless) it will be plastered over all the locals with the silly weather warnings. Now, a *proper* use of a local weather sub-ch: put a SMALL little dot on the main ch indicating some sort of weather warning/alert, then (for those who give a hoot) they can turn to that weather sub-ch and watch the radar images and warnings for Huron County to their hearts content!

I live in NEO, I expect it to snow, I don't need a bunch of silly warnings telling me ................................... it's going to snow. :D

Most of the time I watched Weather Now on the internet anyway. It is nice to have the local people tell us about the weather. Being a Southern California guy with only a few years experience here in Cleveland, it's a good way to keep me paranoid about going on to the roads. I mean it's a good way to keep me informed about the roads.:D

I did live in Northern Kentucky for 7 years before moving here. In my county, 4 inches on the ground and a Snow Emergency was declared. I asked Geauga County about how come I never hear about Snow Emergencies, and was told we don't have them!:eek:

I live in Southside Virginia. They've closed schools on a dusting, on flurries starting as buses start to roll, and even on the threat of snow.

I have a friend in Cleveland and she tells me how she'd go to school in all this snow, seemed so unusual! But that's the difference in what you're used to, what the local geography is like, and what your Department of Transportation can do I guess. :D

- Trip

^Ya, it's all bout how "equiped" the road dept is in your area. In somewhere like VA, if they don't get hit with ice and snow often enough, then it doesn't make sense to have a road crew and all that eqipment dedicated to winter weather. It's easier to just call the schools and businesses down for a day or two.

I grew up in North Carolina as a kid, and I remember if we saw a few snow flakes falling we'd start yelling NO SCHOOL!!! Yet here in NE Ohio, the buses just plow through it.

Hookbill, they DO have emergency advisories here sometimes when the weather gets too bad. I remember serveral years ago, they banned ALL vehihicles OFF the road. If you were caught driving during the ban, you were ticketed unless you have an awefully good excuse to be out.
Of course that was down here in STARK, not sure if they ever do that near Cleveland.

[QUOTE=Smarty-pants;15374113..............
Hookbill, they DO have emergency advisories here sometimes when the weather gets too bad. I remember serveral years ago, they banned ALL vehihicles OFF the road. If you were caught driving during the ban, you were ticketed unless you have an awefully good excuse to be out.
Of course that was down here in STARK, not sure if they ever do that near Cleveland.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Geauga County (where hook lives and where I grew up, and where I'm headed this evening) is a little different. A snow fall that would close the Shaker Schools is just another day for Geauga County. ;)

My dad was our "official school closing headquarters" long before FOX 8 got the title. He always said the same thing after a heavy snow and us kids were questioning if school was closed: "Get your butts down to the bus stop! If the bus doesn't show, then you know there is no school. Now MOVE IT!!!" :D

^^Ya that's a good one. Then when the kids come back when the bus doesn't show, just tell them..." stay outside and play for a few hours since your already bundled up".
I'm sure today that would be considered child abuse :rolleyes::D.

^^Ya that's a good one. Then when the kids come back when the bus doesn't show, just tell them..." stay outside and play for a few hours since your already bundled up".
I'm sure today that would be considered child abuse :rolleyes::D.

HA! LOL :D

Yup, and AMAZINGLY, we survived it ALL without 24 hour weather crap and no TV screen covering radar maps and other such nonsense to interrupt viewing (when we could actually get a signal).

I did live one year in Lowell Massachusetts when I was 16 years old. I only recall one school closing and to give you an idea, Lowell is just a few miles from the New Hampshire border.

That's why I'm so amazed at all the closings here. Of course that was in 1969.

As far as Geauga County goes it's the Sheriff who decides on "snow emergencies" and I talked to his assistant and he has never called one.

I'd like to get into the "we survived it" thing but we've already gone way off topic.

I lived and worked in Geauga county for 10 years and the drivers from there do not screw around, they just boogie. In the summertime if you were driving at 60 mph you would most likely be tailgated. One dude on 306 would pass me every morning going to work with my vehicle at 70mph and his at an estimated 120 mph in a hemi pickup truck. Every day. Of course it's impossible now with all the lights. Yes, the old days.
JJK

Merry Christmas everyone.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm on 11/20. Tonight I watched Smallville recorded from that date.

It appears that WBNX has dropped it's "surround sound," that I was hearing but unfortunately there is nothing going to the back speakers again.

Now in this case it's a good thing, because what they had for the last 3 or 4 weeks was horrible. While this is still not what it should be, it's much better then what it was.

So now I hear what Toby10 was talking about 4 pages back. 3 speakers in the front, nothing in the back except the commercials. Amazingly they seem to come in perfect Dolby 5.1.

That really confuses me. Why would the commercials come in good but not the actual show?

On second thought I could be wrong about the commercials. Since I usually use the 30 second skip and tick I don't really watch them but sometimes I will land on one and during one of those times I did notice the back speakers came on. If it was real Dolby, I don't know. I just assumed it was.

Same to you, nothing says it better than below.

Now that it's official, Merry Christmas LBP style! Have a good one.

<<< Click Here >>>> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPBgKPfKdbY&fmt=18)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/oddbodyAS2/LBP/mclbp.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPBgKPfKdbY&fmt=18)

I lived and worked in Geauga county for 10 years and the drivers from there do not screw around, they just boogie. In the summertime if you were driving at 60 mph you would most likely be tailgated. One dude on 306 would pass me every morning going to work with my vehicle at 70mph and his at an estimated 120 mph in a hemi pickup truck. Every day. Of course it's impossible now with all the lights. Yes, the old days.
JJK

I know this is all off topic but this just hits home! I never understood the mentality of Geauga county driving. On a nice clear day everyone seems to drive below the speed limits, turn on the bad weather rain/snow with low visibility & everyone wants to prove their driving skills by tailgating & driving like neandrathallic maniacs. I dated a woman in Rock Creek, so I had to pass through Geauga on 528 & 166 (she was originally from Thompson/Montville herself) & I asked her why she always drove so fast especially in low visibility situations, she proudly snapped she 'knew the roads' there.... needless to say one dark morning a deer jumped in front of her causing her to flip over.

Passing someone in Geauga County is sort of like challenging them to a drag race too at times, they'll intentionally speed up to see if you'll back down!

Nah, with all the other weather outlets available it just seems silly to me. Weather Ch (is that on basic cable?), Weather.com, buy a weather radio for $10, newspaper, phone weather, psychic neighbors.

If there is anything of importance (and even then 90% of the warnings are pointless) it will be plastered over all the locals with the silly weather warnings. Now, a *proper* use of a local weather sub-ch: put a SMALL little dot on the main ch indicating some sort of weather warning/alert, then (for those who give a hoot) they can turn to that weather sub-ch and watch the radar images and warnings for Huron County to their hearts content!

I live in NEO, I expect it to snow, I don't need a bunch of silly warnings telling me ................................... it's going to snow. :D


Sh!# we are indeed having a 'White Christmas' here I was looking forward to one dry day without the slop & mess associated with the snow, along with the corrosives they use that I'm allergic to.

I guess I can appreciate your thoughts on this, since you are shelling out big bucks for premiums why have the redundency?

Phone weather is gone, I have a WX radio & was once part of the SKYwarn program, but not having cable I would miss these 2 subs. I agree that would be a good use for subs instead of breaking into regular programing, along with pre empting regular broadcast for a football game ect. I still think Cleveland should keep at least one good OTA weather sub.

I see most of you have access to a secondary OTA market too, I would likely be able to pick up Erie as my secondary if they weren't running their milliwatt transmitters there that barely make it into Ohio. :(

Sh!# we are indeed having a 'White Christmas' here I was looking forward to one dry day without the slop & mess associated with the snow, along with the corrosives they use that I'm allergic to.

I still think Cleveland should keep at least one good OTA weather sub.



Hey, you still do. 19.2:D

It's running continuously today, as I'm sure many of you are aware. So like I probably do every year, I give it a look and I think the quality doesn't look good and all the commercials. I believe I skipped last year.

So I got my old DVD out and I really don't know when I looked at it last but it kind of reminds me of CD's when they first came out of old albums. Basically they were just the tapes of the albums themselves so you could hear hissing and such. I have all the original albums of The Beatles on CD when they first came out and some of them are in mono.

Anyway I watched the whole DVD. The sound came in as Dolby 1.0! Huh? I never noticed that. And it was being broadcast through the middle speaker and wolfer only, and the only way I could get the other speakers working was by putting my amplifer on one of those Cinema type settings.

I don't know what TBS is showing exactly but whatever they have is probably better then my DVD. My back speakers didn't light up at all, and the picture looked kind of washed out. Now on my DVD the picture was a bit crisper, however like the old CD's I mentioned you could see little bits of "film" glitches, you know those black spots, here and there.

Maybe next Christmas I'll see if they have a newer version of it.

Late last night until about noon today WUAB was running their own cheesy version of the Yule Log. A picture of a fireplace with seasonal music in the background. And it was in HD!! Now why can WUAB play a damn fireplace in HD, but not programs like "Two and a half men", "Without a Trace" and "Cold Case" and "The King of Queens" over on the WOIO side. :mad:

Late last night until about noon today WUAB was running their own cheesy version of the Yule Log. A picture of a fireplace with seasonal music in the background. And it was in HD!! Now why can WUAB play a damn fireplace in HD, but not programs like "Two and a half men", "Without a Trace" and "Cold Case" and "The King of Queens" over on the WOIO side. :mad:

And Merry Christmas to you too nickdawg!:):):)

And Merry Christmas to you too nickdawg!:):):)

What, a guy can't have a Christmas rant?? :confused::confused: :D:D:D:D

I was just really upset that the original 1960s WPIX Yule Log was nowhere to be seen last night. There was some new POS on WGN, you can read about it on the main HDTV forum here.

OK, so tonight I watch Supernatural, which followed Smallville. Dolby 5.1, to perfection. Unbelievable. During the THEN and Now I saw those back speakers light up. I thought, well let's see here. All through the show, fantastic sound with all that strange stuff going on.

A big thumbs up. And I finally cleared up 11/20 today.:)

It's running continuously today, as I'm sure many of you are aware. So like I probably do every year, I give it a look and I think the quality doesn't look good and all the commercials. I believe I skipped last year.

So I got my old DVD out and I really don't know when I looked at it last but it kind of reminds me of CD's when they first came out of old albums. Basically they were just the tapes of the albums themselves so you could hear hissing and such. I have all the original albums of The Beatles on CD when they first came out and some of them are in mono.

Anyway I watched the whole DVD. The sound came in as Dolby 1.0! Huh? I never noticed that. And it was being broadcast through the middle speaker and wolfer only, and the only way I could get the other speakers working was by putting my amplifer on one of those Cinema type settings.

I don't know what TBS is showing exactly but whatever they have is probably better then my DVD. My back speakers didn't light up at all, and the picture looked kind of washed out. Now on my DVD the picture was a bit crisper, however like the old CD's I mentioned you could see little bits of "film" glitches, you know those black spots, here and there.

Maybe next Christmas I'll see if they have a newer version of it.

Hook, it is a modern movie made to look old. From film grain and even the ORIGINAL mono soundtrack too. It really was made to look old, so what you see is probably as good as it's ever going to get.
Blu-ray and HD DVD versions do have a sharper/crispier picture, but it will almost always have that washed out look, and the mono track will probably never be upgraded.
If you have to have some type of "surroundness", most receiver's have a DSP called ALL CHANNEL STEREO or something similar to that. So you could force the mono track into something like that, and then the sound should come out of all speakers... it just won't be true surround sound.

MeRRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! :)

Hook, it is a modern movie made to look old. From film grain and even the ORIGINAL mono soundtrack too. It really was made to look old, so what you see is probably as good as it's ever going to get.
Blu-ray and HD DVD versions do have a sharper/crispier picture, but it will almost always have that washed out look, and the mono track will probably never be upgraded.
If you have to have some type of "surroundness", most receiver's have a DSP called ALL CHANNEL STEREO or something similar to that. So you could force the mono track into something like that, and then the sound should come out of all speakers... it just won't be true surround sound.

MeRRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! :)

I think the TBS airing was in surround sound. They probably used their stupid fake surround most HD stations use on all programming.

I don't think you can turn 1.0 into surround. 3/2.21 and 1/0 are usually forced, regardless of Pro Logic settings. I've tried to modify the WBNX/WKYC 3/2.1 mess into surround and it would only pass what is sent from the source.

Now if you set it to PCM, then you can use stereo surround upconvert. Or just use regular L/R (white/red) baseband cables.

After about a week of the P.I.T.A. Pioneer STB on my bedroom TV, I've decided to dump it. The UI/program guide have always been slow. But now it is painfully slow and the IPG doesn't work. It's always "Loading". Yet the SA box in the living room is perfect. I've decided to dump this POS and getting another SD box as replacement is like buying a new VCR or record player: pointless. So I'd like to know what is available in non-DVR HD boxes. The last one I had was a few years back. It was the SA 3100HD. It was an OK box, but I assume it would perform about as well as the Pioneer one with running MDN. The latest one I've seen is the SA 4250HD. Anyone have one? Is it really bad? Or is it a step up over a SDTV box?

........I guess I can appreciate your thoughts on this, since you are shelling out big bucks for premiums why have the redundency? ...............(

eh....This doesn't bother me. The Weather Ch is one of many ch's I have available to me that I don't use. I do gladly pay a premium for a better selection of digital and HD ch's as well as movie ch's. Part of that premium is greater choice of ch's, many of which I choose not to watch. :)

Interrupting my viewing to inform me of a thunderstorm in Lodi, THAT bothers me! :p

After about a week of the P.I.T.A. Pioneer STB on my bedroom TV, I've decided to dump it. The UI/program guide have always been slow. But now it is painfully slow and the IPG doesn't work. It's always "Loading". Yet the SA box in the living room is perfect. I've decided to dump this POS and getting another SD box as replacement is like buying a new VCR or record player: pointless. So I'd like to know what is available in non-DVR HD boxes. The last one I had was a few years back. It was the SA 3100HD. It was an OK box, but I assume it would perform about as well as the Pioneer one with running MDN. The latest one I've seen is the SA 4250HD. Anyone have one? Is it really bad? Or is it a step up over a SDTV box?

I stand corrected the other box in my house is a SA4250HDC and to the best of my knowledge the box in my house it works just fine.

I say "to the best of my knowledge" because the only time I ever have looked at it was when I set it up. My wife uses this television and she watches nothing but shopping channels, but from what she says she has no problems.

When I did look at it HD looked great on a 27" LG HD television, and functions appeared tobe fine. I just asked her and she said the guide loads fine.

I don't know if they have "SD" boxes anymore, I think they all are HD capable. Remember, HD comes with digital service.

I see what nickdawg is complaining about during daytime television. The black line on the tv during non-HD shows. However this is non existent on a OTA digital broadcast via 5.1.

Now why we get this on HD via cable, I don't know. It does show to me however that their digital broadcast is just fine, OTA and as I pointed out to nickdawg HD and OTA are not the same.

How does this channel appear to anyone who owns a HD set and receives via OTA? Do you get the black line at the top of the screen?

BTW I don't think it's a big deal and worth complaining about. I'm just curious.

I see what nickdawg is complaining about during daytime television. The black line on the tv during non-HD shows. However this is non existent on a OTA digital broadcast via 5.1.

Now why we get this on HD via cable, I don't know. It does show to me however that their digital broadcast is just fine, OTA and as I pointed out to nickdawg HD and OTA are not the same.

How does this channel appear to anyone who owns a HD set and receives via OTA? Do you get the black line at the top of the screen?

BTW I don't think it's a big deal and worth complaining about. I'm just curious.

WEWS is sent by fiber feed. I remember discussion of it here before, TWC had other problems with it earlier this year. The other fiber feed is WKYC, for obvious reasons. I can understand why WKYC is, but not WEWS. I get the feeling we would have better results if WEWS was an OTA. Plus we'd have a beautiful SD version fed from HD right now, like the other channels.

I think it's a big deal. The line is OBVIOUS at the bottom of the screen. It looked ridiculous. :eek:

eh....This doesn't bother me. The Weather Ch is one of many ch's I have available to me that I don't use. I do gladly pay a premium for a better selection of digital and HD ch's as well as movie ch's. Part of that premium is greater choice of ch's, many of which I choose not to watch. :)

Interrupting my viewing to inform me of a thunderstorm in Lodi, THAT bothers me! :p

And they still cut in. WOIO and WKYC still cut in regular programming with weather info. Both still run weather crawls on the main channel. Since they do that, I'd rather see both channels go away and that bandwidth reclaimed by the "-1" channel, the way it should be. At least the big three(NBC, ABC, CBS) SHOULD be required to give their HD channels full bandwidth, no having 2 or 3 channels.

I think it's a big deal. The line is OBVIOUS at the bottom of the screen. It looked ridiculous. :eek:

Hmmmm....I thought that's what you said in your previous post.

Mine however, is on the top!:confused:

Interesting, huh?

Hmmmm....I thought that's what you said in your previous post.

Mine however, is on the top!:confused:

Interesting, huh?

Pictures? I've never seen a line on top on WEWS. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Oddly enough, I stumbled onto another "Yule Log" channel on Christmas Day...believe it or not, Time Warner Cable's own "NEON" (23).

As befitting its status in the TV world, it looked like the fire was just videotaped by one of their camera people. Maybe they threw a log or two in a fireplace somewhere on the set of "More Sports and Les Levine"? :D

Oddly enough, I stumbled onto another "Yule Log" channel on Christmas Day...believe it or not, Time Warner Cable's own "NEON" (23).

As befitting its status in the TV world, it looked like the fire was just videotaped by one of their camera people. Maybe they threw a log or two in a fireplace somewhere on the set of "More Sports and Les Levine"? :D

Sounds awful. The one on WUAB looked generic too. And it had a "McCafe" logo in the corner the whole time. Even the fact is was HD couldn't save it.

WGN showed an awful new Yule Log. The only place to see the original one was on WPIX. At least that one wasn't messed with.

Oddly enough, I stumbled onto another "Yule Log" channel on Christmas Day...believe it or not, Time Warner Cable's own "NEON" (23).

As befitting its status in the TV world, it looked like the fire was just videotaped by one of their camera people. Maybe they threw a log or two in a fireplace somewhere on the set of "More Sports and Les Levine"? :D

C'mon guys! The Yule log is on every year on the old Adelphia channel, why wouldn't it be on TW's?

Pictures? I've never seen a line on top on WEWS. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

I'll see what I can do. I'm not good with the camera but the wife is. All I know is how to use the cell camera.

Can you give me some instructions for uploading a picture here? I'll see if I can send it tomorrow. But it's on the top, I swear.

C'mon guys! The Yule log is on every year on the old Adelphia channel, why wouldn't it be on TW's?

Man I had tons of holiday eats yesterday, and I just got done dropping a couple "yule logs" a few minutes ago. I don't think I'd ever enjoy watching it on tv though. What kind of sick stuff are you guys into? :eek::confused::p:D:D:D.

I'll see what I can do. I'm not good with the camera but the wife is. All I know is how to use the cell camera.

Can you give me some instructions for uploading a picture here? I'll see if I can send it tomorrow. But it's on the top, I swear.

When you want to post the picture, click on "Go Advanced" under the message box. Scroll down and it says Attach Files, there's a button "Manage Attachments". Click that and follow the instructions there. There's file size limits.

channel 326.....the new MLB Network...

Guess it isn't available on basic cable...since 300 series is digital..

http://mlb.mlb.com/network/

plus not available as of today on the Dish Network.

channel 326.....the new MLB Network...

Guess it isn't available on basic cable...since 300 series is digital..

http://mlb.mlb.com/network/

plus not available as of today on the Dish Network.

Good. At this point, NOTHING should be added to analog cable. If TWC actually adds a channel to analog now, as transitions to digital begin with three years to that 2012 deadline, they are dumber than I thought.

And, they better NOT add the HD version of this channel(if one exists). I'm already pissed enough with the Big Ten HD channel. That's a waste of bandwidth. Whenever a game with mass interest in Ohio is shown, it should be on one of the HD bonus channels. There's no need to offer a niche channel like BTN HD full time, when other networks like USA, F/X, and CNN are not available yet.

what will happen to the Basic (analog) channels ???

will Basic cable start with the 100 Series of the digital lineup..or what ??

MLB network is suppose to be offered in HD..will Time Warner pick it up ??..who knows..I think the last HD Channel they gave us was Big Ten Network...(not counting MGM because that replaced MOJO that went under)

what will happen to the Basic (analog) channels ???

will Basic cable start with the 100 Series of the digital lineup..or what ??

MLB network is suppose to be offered in HD..will Time Warner pick it up ??..who knows..I think the last HD Channel they gave us was Big Ten Network...(not counting MGM because that replaced MOJO that went under)

Unfortunately, TWC of NE Ohio will continue to operate the same. Nothing is changing. All cable TVs will still work on 2/17/09. All satellite TVs will work on 2/17/09. Cable/Satellite will be downconverting the SD local channels from the HD versions and national cable networks are not required to change distribution methods.

Unrelated to the OTA transition, cable companies have the option of going to an all digital system where all customers are required to have a settop box on their TVs. This would free up tons of bandwidth to add more HD channels. Unfortunately, there isn't much interest in this at the moment. Probably because of the cost involved with buying TONS more boxes for all the customers.

Since Cable is not Over The Air, they can continue broadcasting in analog until their deadline, which is supposed to be sometime in 2012.

Good. At this point, NOTHING should be added to analog cable. If TWC actually adds a channel to analog now, as transitions to digital begin with three years to that 2012 deadline, they are dumber than I thought.

And, they better NOT add the HD version of this channel(if one exists). I'm already pissed enough with the Big Ten HD channel. That's a waste of bandwidth. Whenever a game with mass interest in Ohio is shown, it should be on one of the HD bonus channels. There's no need to offer a niche channel like BTN HD full time, when other networks like USA, F/X, and CNN are not available yet.

Are you out of your ever lovin' friggin mind? (ansewer: yes, this in nickdawg):) Of course this should be in HD!

WTF, nickdawg, you want CNN instead of MLB? Why? Most of their footage shots will still be shown in SD which means you have sidebars.

I'm thrilled they've added this channel and I want it in HD. I like baseball. But this may be a tease, I hear "sports tier" coming and an extra 5 bucks.

I thought they already have one for $5.00 extra per month...

Can't remember what extra you get with it...

MLB Network is nice to have..but when it comes time to watch baseball I am going to be tuned into STO in HD for my Indians...

but I would bet if you asked the end TW User if they would rather have NFL or MLB Network..

NFL would win 3-1...

I thought they already have one for $5.00 extra per month...

Can't remember what extra you get with it...

MLB Network is nice to have..but when it comes time to watch baseball I am going to be tuned into STO in HD for my Indians...

but I would bet if you asked the end TW User if they would rather have NFL or MLB Network..

NFL would win 3-1...

So, over in the Erie area they already are hitting you up, huh Marty? They haven't done that to us yet, but I suspect it's coming.

The problem with NFL Network and TW is that TW insists on having it on their Sports Tier, and NFL has said No No No!

I took a look at the schedule. I saw on one date they will televising "Dodger Blue" a history of great Dodger teams. I looked for something for the Tribe but all I could find was game 7 of the 2007 ALCS.

And I know how much you guys all want to relive that moment!:rolleyes:

Going, going, gone? I wonder.

I thought this was suppose to replace MLB Extra Innings, and that MLB would be showing their own games. However now I'm not to sure.

First, last season MLB Extra Innings was charging a whopping 199.00 for the season. That's up from 3 years ago when I paid 128.00 and I believe I paid 139.00 two years ago. I decided not to purchase in advance but if I saw that 199.00 price tag, no way would I have done it anyways.

So I find it real hard to believe that MLB channel will not be more a less another sports channel like ESPN but just for baseball. Oh they may show a game or so live, and maybe ESPN is out of the picture for all I know but I don't think they are going to give up that cash cow they have with InDemand.

I took a look at InDemand's Web page and it shows a banner saying "check with us next season."

At 199.00 and this economy, lots of luck InDemand.

NFL has the Ticket for its sunday games out of your market and same with MLB with its Extra Innings...

incase I moved to Florida I could get the MLB Extra Innings to keep up with the Indians..

the Ticket and Extra Innings I don't think are tied into either the NFL or MLB Network.

PS..as far as the Extra Cost for Extra Innings..I wonder how much the NFL Ticket has gone up in the last 5 years..I know if you want the GAMES in HD..you have to pay an extra $100 per season on the Ticket...

PS..as far as the Extra Cost for Extra Innings..I wonder how much the NFL Ticket has gone up in the last 5 years..I know if you want the GAMES in HD..you have to pay an extra $100 per season on the Ticket...

WoW. What a Major League rip off!

the best part is that he is a Detroit Lions fan and he spent the extra $100 to watch it in HD This year..

Nice investment...

lol

Take it from the top, nickdawg.127746

Take it from the top, nickdawg.127746

Yup. That's what I was talking about a while ago in here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15260740&postcount=15682

It is present on WOW HD ch 5 as well. Not present on WOW analog ch 5 nor OTA. Must be their HD feed to all cable co's that is screwy?

Yup. That's what I was talking about a while ago in here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15260740&postcount=15682

It is present on WOW HD ch 5 as well. Not present on WOW analog ch 5 nor OTA. Must be their HD feed to all cable co's that is screwy?

LOL!!! So are you saying you have the line on the top too? nickdawg says it's on the bottom.

The question is, is it there on HD OTA? I can see on the regular OTA digital feed it's not there, but I'm wondering if it's there watching an HD capable television on channel on 5.1.

As far as nickdawg, it just fits in that he might see it differently then us! He lives in the nickdawg bizzarro world.:D;)

Where are the OTA people when you need them?

LOL!!! So are you saying you have the line on the top too? nickdawg says it's on the bottom.

The question is, is it there on HD OTA? I can see on the regular OTA digital feed it's not there, but I'm wondering if it's there watching an HD capable television on channel on 5.1.

As far as nickdawg, it just fits in that he might see it differently then us! He lives in the nickdawg bizzarro world.:D;)

Where are the OTA people when you need them?

I think you and I are talking about a different issue than is nickdawg.
No, as I said, it is not on OTA HD. Only the cable feed that I can see.
For me OTA is only HD, I suppose I should have clarified. :)

I think you and I are talking about a different issue than is nickdawg.
No, as I said, it is not on OTA HD. Only the cable feed that I can see.
For me OTA is only HD, I suppose I should have clarified. :)

No, I'm not talking about a different issue, and thanks you answered my question in more then one way.

Nickdawg is saying that the line you and I see is on top of the screen is on the bottom of the screen on WEWS. Same channel, different location. He requested an upload of a picture, I guess he found it hard to believe.

Your response clarifies that this "defect" appears not only on TW but also on WOW. I'm sure that they don't share the same feed. You also clarified that OTA HD does not have this issue.

I've always questioned as to how cable actually receives it's picture on local television. However I now think it has to be a direct fiber feed, or else everyone would see this defect. The question to me is why use a direct fiber feed? Isn't that expensive?

And then there is the "conversion" issue. Can you send an analog feed via fiber? If not then why does TW, in my area, convert the locals from analog to digital. Wouldn't they have to convert them to analog? Why reconvert again to digital?

It seems to me the logical thing would be they simply receive an analog signal OTA and convert it to digital. But that still doesn't explain the line on WEWS HD.

I'd send an email about it but I'm sure it would follow with "We'd like to send a tech out.":rolleyes:

I've always questioned as to how cable actually receives it's picture on local television. However I now think it has to be a direct fiber feed, or else everyone would see this defect. The question to me is why use a direct fiber feed? Isn't that expensive?

A direct fiber feed benefits both the broadcaster and the cable operator. If the station's transmitter or STL goes down and they're knocked off the air, they still have a signal on cable. This saves the broadscaster from losing a lot of ad revenue, and it keeps the phones quiet at the cable company. It also saves the broadscaster from the occasional vagaries of RF propagation issues. Everybody wins. :)

A direct fiber feed benefits both the broadcaster and the cable operator. If the station's transmitter or STL goes down and they're knocked off the air, they still have a signal on cable. This saves the broadscaster from losing a lot of ad revenue, and it keeps the phones quiet at the cable company. It also saves the broadscaster from the occasional vagaries of RF propagation issues. Everybody wins. :)

Makes sense. Thanks.

So getting back to the WEWS HD "black line" on SD I guess since two cable companies are experiencing the same thing it must be something in the transmission on those fiber lines. I don't believe two cable companies can use the same cable. Assuming that the cable has to split somewhere you can only come to one conclusion:

nickdawg is right!:eek:

But I still don't think it's worth complaining about.:p;)

Hi Folks,
New to this site. Hope you can help me. I have a mother-in-law who lives near Massillon/Dalton area in an assisted living home. She is worried about not being able to get digital reception in her room since the home has no cable or satellite available. She receives all analog stations with rabbit ears now. My wife and I live in Arizona and would like to buy her a new digital TV and rabbit ears if there is any chance of her getting reception there. The horror stories I've been reading on this post about the Cleveland broadcasting worries us. Any help would be appreciated. Great site by the way.

Hi Folks,
New to this site. Hope you can help me. I have a mother-in-law who lives near Massillon/Dalton area in an assisted living home. She is worried about not being able to get digital reception in her room since the home has no cable or satellite available. She receives all analog stations with rabbit ears now. My wife and I live in Arizona and would like to buy her a new digital TV and rabbit ears if there is any chance of her getting reception there. The horror stories I've been reading on this post about the Cleveland broadcasting worries us. Any help would be appreciated. Great site by the way.

Rabbit ears???... no.
You'll need to get a good small antenna that can pick up digital signals over the air. ...and hopfully she'll have a window or back door that is open to the north/northeast/northwest. Otherwise, she may be SOL :(.
What kind of assisted living home doesn't have cable?:eek:
I know they rake you over the coals on the pricing, but I thought they all had it.

Rabbit ears???... no.
You'll need to get a good small antenna that can pick up digital signals over the air. ...and hopfully she'll have a window or back door that is open to the north/northeast/northwest. Otherwise, she may be SOL :(.
What kind of assisted living home doesn't have cable?:eek:
I know they rake you over the coals on the pricing, but I thought they all had it.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Probably your right.

There are some good indoor antennas, but as Smarty-pants points out you will need a little luck. Take a look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=546066). It can give you some detail.

I'm not as far away from Cleveland as she is and I can barely get a signal with an indoor antenna. However I do not have a window facing towards Cleveland so that is part of the problem. Also terrain.

And I agree about cable. What nursing home doesn't have it? Basic lifeline isn't that expensive.

OK, I know we've kind of ran this to death by now, but I saw something else today.

The line on WEWS goes away if I put my television aspect ration on either a stretch or "by program." I also have "Just Scan" when I'm on an HD channel, and I see the line there and set to 16x9.

So maybe it isn't WEWS fault. the "by program" setting reduces the size of the picture just a bit, and that gets rid of that annoying line. So if you're seeing it, try fooling with your televisions aspect ratio. YMMV

Take it from the top, nickdawg.127746

I have that too. As far as I can remember, that's always been on top of the screen on analog upconvert programming. What I thought you meant was the black line from the bottom of the screen was on top. These are two different things.

The line at the top of the screen is only on analog upconvert programming, not HD.

The line at the bottom of the screen is solid black and on during HD and non HD programming.

Are you out of your ever lovin' friggin mind? (ansewer: yes, this in nickdawg):) Of course this should be in HD!

WTF, nickdawg, you want CNN instead of MLB? Why? Most of their footage shots will still be shown in SD which means you have sidebars.

I'm thrilled they've added this channel and I want it in HD. I like baseball. But this may be a tease, I hear "sports tier" coming and an extra 5 bucks.

If they are going to put MLB in the sports tier, then there better NOT be a HD version. If TWC is adding pay HDTV channels, they're out of their minds. That's the last thing we need. It's a niche channel. Channels like USA and F/X should be added first, since they have mass appeal.

It's as bad as Big Ten HD. The other day flipping through channels, rather than seeing what was on USA HD and F/X HD, instead I got to see old games on BTN HD, with stupid patterned sidebars on the sides!!! We have two "HD Bonus" channels now. Any new game with Ohio could be shown there.

If they are going to put MLB in the sports tier, then there better NOT be a HD version. If TWC is adding pay HDTV channels, they're out of their minds. That's the last thing we need. It's a niche channel. Channels like USA and F/X should be added first, since they have mass appeal.

It's as bad as Big Ten HD. The other day flipping through channels, rather than seeing what was on USA HD and F/X HD, instead I got to see old games on BTN HD, with stupid patterned sidebars on the sides!!! We have two "HD Bonus" channels now. Any new game with Ohio could be shown there.

But wouldn't you like to see the replay of game 7 in the ACLS against Boston in HD?:p:p:p

In regards to a black line at the bottom in HD, nope, I don't see that.

Take it from the top, nickdawg.127746

This is something very specific.

This is the analog "Vertical Blanking Interval" line making it to the digital signal. Somewhere in the encoding/upconvert of the WEWS analog signal to digital, they haven't stripped out the line (which you'd see on the original analog if you mess with the vertical hold. Or horizontal...I always forget which is which).

I believe a TV station can strip this line out, which really shouldn't be there on the digital side. Since overscan on many sets is set to clip it, not everyone sees it. (It also doesn't appear when the upconversion from SD/analog is done by the network, since they have no need for the VBI line.)

This is something very specific.

This is the analog "Vertical Blanking Interval" line making it to the digital signal. Somewhere in the encoding/upconvert of the WEWS analog signal to digital, they haven't stripped out the line (which you'd see on the original analog if you mess with the vertical hold. Or horizontal...I always forget which is which).'

My first thought was vertical, because that's kind of common sense. But when I select the "set by program" feature it actually slightly shrinks the HD telecast, can't be more the a 1/32 of and inch on both sides, if that much and that seems to go to the top of the picture. Like it transfers it.

The two settings on my television that I have for like an "automatic scan" are Just Scan and set by program. However Just Scan only is available when you are on a HD channel, where as Set To Program is always available. You would think they would do the same thing but there is a difference. When you set to Just Scan and you go back to aspect on a SD channel it defaults to 16:9. Set to program however does not change, hence when you change WEWS it somehow adjusts ever so slightly to remove that line.

My old Sony had a default you could set so that whenever you were not receiving HD it would go to that setting. Basically the LG works the same way, it defaults to your last setting but the Sony would allow you to select something called "Wide Scan" that put a stretch on the picture but didn't add panels to the non HD shows and didn't make the appearance of people seem fat. You could notice however like on CNN that you would just see the top of the news scroll.

[QUOTE=Inundated;15393576]This is something very specific.

This is the analog "Vertical Blanking Interval" line making it to the digital signal. Somewhere in the encoding/upconvert of the WEWS analog signal to digital, they haven't stripped out the line.

I agree. I see what looks line line 21 closed-caption data in that photo, as well as possibly the network clock signal and maybe a line of some other test signal.

I agree. I see what looks line line 21 closed-caption data in that photo, as well as possibly the network clock signal and maybe a line of some other test signal.

All good information, but my point is you don't have to look at it. There should be some way to get it of on your aspect settings.

Any thoughts as to why this only happens on WEWS?

What's up with the quote? It seems like AVS is having an issue. For some reason the above post had my name as the quoted person, when I edited I had to remove my name.

I think you and I are talking about a different issue than is nickdawg.
No, as I said, it is not on OTA HD. Only the cable feed that I can see.
For me OTA is only HD, I suppose I should have clarified. :)

Makes sense. Thanks.

So getting back to the WEWS HD "black line" on SD I guess since two cable companies are experiencing the same thing it must be something in the transmission on those fiber lines. I don't believe two cable companies can use the same cable.

They may not be using the same cable but my guess is somewhere in transmission chain at Ch. 5 is a Dist. Amp that feeds the fiber transmitters and engineering needs to do a little tweeking to that piece of eqipment is to mask the verticle at the top.
the overscan area was never much of a concern until the newer monitors and flat screens starting coming out. bet they don't even see it in most of their monitors

They may not be using the same cable but my guess is somewhere in transmission chain at Ch. 5 is a Dist. Amp that feeds the fiber transmitters and engineering needs to do a little tweeking to that piece of eqipment is to mask the verticle at the top.
the overscan area was never much of a concern until the newer monitors and flat screens starting coming out. bet they don't even see it in most of their monitors

Yeah, they may not know. I never see it myself either as I use Full mode (accurate stretch) the few times I watch WEWS HD when they are broadcasting an upscaled analog show. Only in 4:3 or Anamorphic with sidebars do I see it. Sidebars annoy me. ;)

All good information, but my point is you don't have to look at it. There should be some way to get it of on your aspect settings.

Any thoughts as to why this only happens on WEWS?

It could be tweaked out at the tv set with the right amount of vertical overscan and centering. This might be reachable from the set's service menu.

I'm guessing the station is feeding this from a point in their distribution system that's downstream from the line-21 insertion gear. I don't know why this is; I can only speculate based on what everyone is seeing.

This is something very specific.

This is the analog "Vertical Blanking Interval" line making it to the digital signal. Somewhere in the encoding/upconvert of the WEWS analog signal to digital, they haven't stripped out the line (which you'd see on the original analog if you mess with the vertical hold. Or horizontal...I always forget which is which).

I believe a TV station can strip this line out, which really shouldn't be there on the digital side. Since overscan on many sets is set to clip it, not everyone sees it. (It also doesn't appear when the upconversion from SD/analog is done by the network, since they have no need for the VBI line.)

Took the words out of my mouth. :D That's why I was so confused over what Hookbill was seeing. I never associated the blanking lines with an error. The black line at the bottom of the screen was an error. This is just normal operation.

All good information, but my point is you don't have to look at it. There should be some way to get it of on your aspect settings.

Any thoughts as to why this only happens on WEWS?

I've seen it on other channels too. I've seen it on SD news video on NBC and CBS as well as on a few cable networks and syndicated programming on local stations WUAB and WBNX and WKYC. WEWS is the only time I've seen it always on SD. It's on and off on the other stations.

It never bothered me. I actually think it's pretty cool. We get to see all of the picture that is there, including the data line. Cool. :cool:

Yeah, they may not know. I never see it myself either as I use Full mode (accurate stretch) the few times I watch WEWS HD when they are broadcasting an upscaled analog show. Only in 4:3 or Anamorphic with sidebars do I see it. Sidebars annoy me. ;)

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I could never watch stretch. Disfigured heads and oval basketballs annoy me. ;) I prefer to keep everything they way it is. If it's 4:3, it stays 4:3. If it's 16:9, it stays 16:9. It it's 4:3 and letterbox, it stays windowboxed. I can't stand stretch-o-vision or zoom-o-vision or whatever.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I could never watch stretch. Disfigured heads and oval basketballs annoy me. ;) I prefer to keep everything they way it is. If it's 4:3, it stays 4:3. If it's 16:9, it stays 16:9. It it's 4:3 and letterbox, it stays windowboxed. I can't stand stretch-o-vision or zoom-o-vision or whatever.

I'm kind of wondering about that Toby. I"ve never been able to stretch an HD channel broadcasting a SD program. I can get rid of that line as I said earlier, and for some reason I can pick the 4:3 option but that's it.

With my old Sony Wega I couldn't change anything. I got the bars and that was that.

As far as stretching goes, I understand where your coming from nickdawg on that but I do stretch SD digital or analog channels and on my LG I use Stretch 2. Unless you've got something scrolling on the bottom (like CNN) you can't see the difference.

I'm guessing the station is feeding this from a point in their distribution system that's downstream from the line-21 insertion gear. I don't know why this is; I can only speculate based on what everyone is seeing.

Back in the stone age, time base correctors had a vertical phasing adjustment
that when misadjusted would give a similar effect... pushing the vcr's vertical
interval down into the active picture area...

I'm kind of wondering about that Toby. I"ve never been able to stretch an HD channel broadcasting a SD program. I can get rid of that line as I said earlier, and for some reason I can pick the 4:3 option but that's it.

With my old Sony Wega I couldn't change anything. I got the bars and that was that.

As far as stretching goes, I understand where your coming from nickdawg on that but I do stretch SD digital or analog channels and on my LG I use Stretch 2. Unless you've got something scrolling on the bottom (like CNN) you can't see the difference.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Are you pulling my leg on this one? Are you joking? The difference is plain as day. It's wrong. The low quality picture from cable suffers severely from stretching or zooming. Any picture suffers, but the bandwidth starved are the worst. Plus, people look out of shape. Circles look oval, actresses look fat. Not a pretty picture.

I have two ways to stretch. One is through the TV itself, called "WIDE". This is the most horrific thing I've ever seen in my life. It's also the default setting on the TV out of the box. "WIDE" appears to be a non-linear stretch method, like the one used by networks such as TNT and TBS. You know, when things on the sides appear larger and things in the center are smaller or normal size.

The other is "stretch" provided by the cable box. This setting is not as bad as "wide" from the TV, but it's not good either. Objects don't look as distorted, but they still don't look right. I prefer OAR. And the nice thing about Navigator is it won't let you permanently stretch the picture. If you push the "#" button on one channel, it goes back to sidebar when you change the channel.

I have another question for you? What do you do to letterbox programming, like USA or F/X? Do you leave the picture expanded with the bars on top and bottom:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:? Or do you use "zoom-o-vision"?:eek:

It never bothered me. I actually think it's pretty cool. We get to see all of the picture that is there, including the data line. Cool.

Way Cool!
http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/1bd5f756791cf6ce34a239ac9eac5a942b3719c7/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/c6fc4bb0-b6c2-012b-47f5-f489bdbf5158/vi2_large.jpg

Nick, a lot of the newer televisions do some nice things that can fill the screen of a 16:9 HDTV with a 4:3 picture.
The best features that do it usually incorperate a combination of zooming AND stretching at the same time. When done properly, or with "quality", most people can not tell it much different from the OAR.
Although like I said, it does incorperate SOME zooming, so a small portion of the top and bottom of the picture is cut off.
If you have a display that does not incorperate automatic overscan of the picture, then it can be very beneficial to use it because after it is done, your display is showing what it normally would if your tv DID have overscan, only now it is filling the entire 16:9 frame.
Also, like I said already too, the newer TVs (or newer technology if you will), can better acomplishing filling the screen WITHOUT degrading the picture.
Like with the newer Oppo dvd players... They can take a letterbox non-anamorphic dvd and make it fill the screen without any degradation to the quality of the picture. Likewise, so can the newer stretch/fill modes in HDTVs do the same.

Way Cool!
http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/1bd5f756791cf6ce34a239ac9eac5a942b3719c7/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/c6fc4bb0-b6c2-012b-47f5-f489bdbf5158/vi2_large.jpg

Yep, I see cc data, network clock, a line of multiburst and a line of color bars in there. Sometimes a station will even wind up passing VITC timecode from a tape machine directly to air. As wd8kct said, it's sometimes a vertical phase issue on a TBC. These days most on-air playout is from servers though, and these things usually show up in dubs from tape to digital.

A long time ago, ABC used to have a round-robin network between New York, Chicago and Washington, and they'd use VITS to indicate which portions of the circuit were in the on-air loop. They'd do this by modifying the (normally red) modulated 20T burst in the VITS with a different color. Thus by looking at the pulse-cross display, you'd sometimes see a red, green and blue 20T pulse, all stacked up vertically. It was kind of cool to get this little peek behind the scenes in their network's infrastructure.

eh....This doesn't bother me. The Weather Ch is one of many ch's I have available to me that I don't use. I do gladly pay a premium for a better selection of digital and HD ch's as well as movie ch's. Part of that premium is greater choice of ch's, many of which I choose not to watch. :)

Interrupting my viewing to inform me of a thunderstorm in Lodi, THAT bothers me! :p

Like Bruce Maliniowsky was great for pre-empting network programming when he was at 19 (all but 2 minutes of some season finale).

I still really like WX+ & often just leave it on as background noise, I hope they integrate something similar to this instead of dead air like 43.

THe GF's father recently purchased a Toshiba 1080P 42", the cable company isisted they needed a box for HD.

I was over there the other day, & the picture they were recieving was GOD AWFUL!!! Without messing anything up, I looked how the box was hooked up. The cable goes into the RF in of the box, & comes out & to the antenna on the set, in addition it looks like they are using the RGB component out to go to the composite input of the set too. They were watching on "Cable CH 4", I'm imagining through the RF out of the box. Switching over to component yielded a slightly better picture, but still very unacceptable, there was data lines above the picture plus the pictures were very grainy, even in supposive HD. The box is made by Scientific Atlanta (unsure of the model #), & has a green display.

I'm still unsure just Why TWC insisted they need the box since they have a QAM tuner. Is this the aggravation one pays for with cable? I was afraid to reset or bypass the box since they may charge them, also I was told they would also charge to make any adjustments on a service call. Is this normally the way TWC operates? & does this seemed hooked up correctly? The aspect ratio also seems to be all over the board with each channel, the larger I make the picture the worse it gets. I think this was installed wrong from the word go.

It makes me appreciate even more a good OTA signal, a shame I live in a RF hole out here & lack of channels from my home market.

I still really like WX+ & often just leave it on as background noise, I hope they integrate something similar to this instead of dead air like 43.

I hope they eliminate the channel completely and return the wasted bandwidth to the main HD channel. There's no need to keep a "this channel ended" card running, since cable is dumping the channel on January 1 and nobody can get WKYC OTA anyway.

I HATE subchannels with a passion and I hope WOIO follows by killing 19-2. They're useless. If the weather is bad enough, they cu in on the main channel anyway. Any other time, there's TWC on cable or four TV station websites. WOIO's channel is especially worthless since part of the time is just commercials, the weather info is taken off the screen. And when it is shown, it's the same outdated info. At least WKYC used to have new national content inserted.

THe GF's father recently purchased a Toshiba 1080P 42", the cable company isisted they needed a box for HD.

I was over there the other day, & the picture they were recieving was GOD AWFUL!!! Without messing anything up, I looked how the box was hooked up. The cable goes into the RF in of the box, & comes out & to the antenna on the set, in addition it looks like they are using the RGB component out to go to the composite input of the set too. They were watching on "Cable CH 4", I'm imagining through the RF out of the box. Switching over to component yielded a slightly better picture, but still very unacceptable, there was data lines above the picture plus the pictures were very grainy, even in supposive HD. The box is made by Scientific Atlanta (unsure of the model #), & has a green display.

I'm still unsure just Why TWC insisted they need the box since they have a QAM tuner. Is this the aggravation one pays for with cable? I was afraid to reset or bypass the box since they may charge them, also I was told they would also charge to make any adjustments on a service call. Is this normally the way TWC operates? & does this seemed hooked up correctly? The aspect ratio also seems to be all over the board with each channel, the larger I make the picture the worse it gets. I think this was installed wrong from the word go.

It makes me appreciate even more a good OTA signal, a shame I live in a RF hole out here & lack of channels from my home market.

It sounds like that box is set up wrong. I have a Scientific Atlanta STB connected via Component and it is fine. What you need to check is Output Resolution. They usually come from the manufacturer or cableco set to 480i as default. That explains why the PQ is bad on HD. You're watching high(720/1080) resolution downscaled to 480i on a high resolution display.

Most cable techs are clueless about their products and what they are doing. The particular one probably didn't understand what they installed and did it as if it were a typical SDTV install. When I had a new box installed on a service call, the one idiot was checking the RF connection and set my TV to channel 4, even after connecting component cables I already had from TWC. I had to change it myself.

TWC insisted on the STB because QAM tuners suck. You don't get all the HD channels as well as other cable features(On Demand, PPV, Guide) plus the channels move around alot and it is a PITA in general.

There's no need to keep a "this channel ended" card running, since cable is dumping the channel on January 1 and nobody can get WKYC OTA anyway.

I'm actually having very little trouble with 3.1 & 3.2 lately... that wasn't the case a few months back they must be doing something....only on windy days I occasionally have trouble... Why would wind have an effect on a signal?

I HATE subchannels with a passion and I hope WOIO follows by killing 19-2. They're useless. If the weather is bad enough, they cu in on the main channel anyway. Any other time, there's TWC on cable or four TV station websites. WOIO's channel is especially worthless since part of the time is just commercials, the weather info is taken off the screen. And when it is shown, it's the same outdated info. At least WKYC used to have new national content inserted.

Reason I prefered WX+ to 19, plus they use the L bar on NBC, & both of these provide clear pictures even at the 480i, now the wx sub on 68-2 was really degraded video & audio.

It sounds like that box is set up wrong. I have a Scientific Atlanta STB connected via Component and it is fine. What you need to check is Output Resolution. They usually come from the manufacturer or cableco set to 480i as default. That explains why the PQ is bad on HD. You're watching high(720/1080) resolution downscaled to 480i on a high resolution display.

The box had beacons indicating 720p & 480i, the 480i I indicator was lit on analog, even when the 720p indicator is lit you are still converting this back to analog via the RF connection aren't you defeating the whole HD purpose watching this via CH4?

Most cable techs are clueless about their products and what they are doing. .

I figured that :)

The particular one probably didn't understand what they installed and did it as if it were a typical SDTV install. When I had a new box installed on a service call, the one idiot was checking the RF connection and set my TV to channel 4, even after connecting component cables I already had from TWC. I had to change it myself.

TWC insisted on the STB because QAM tuners suck. You don't get all the HD channels as well as other cable features(On Demand, PPV, Guide) plus the channels move around alot and it is a PITA in general.

So you are saying the conversion to RF CH 4 is useless, & to use the RGB Component?? This still didn't explain why the RGB was only slightly better than the the RF. Would this loop they are creating be causing some type of feedback?? Even the STB converter on my 32" Sony gives me a lot better picture :), & I know that's in 480i

The box had beacons indicating 720p & 480i, the 480i I indicator was lit on analog, even when the 720p indicator is lit you are still converting this back to analog via the RF connection aren't you defeating the whole HD purpose watching this via CH4?

Yes. RF is only 480i, so regardless of what the box is set to output, you're still getting 480i. Even on a SDTV, I can see a huge difference between S-Video and RF.

I figured that :)



So you are saying the conversion to RF CH 4 is useless, & to use the RGB Component?? This still didn't explain why the RGB was only slightly better than the the RF. Would this loop they are creating be causing some type of feedback?? Even the STB converter on my 32" Sony gives me a lot better picture :), & I know that's in 480i

You can still have it connected on RF 4, it may be useful if there's also a VCR connected, since VCRs are not component capable. I have Component RGB and the RF 4 cables connected to my box, along with Digital Audio Coax. and the L/R baseband cables. Everything works fine. The only thing I can think of is a wiring problem. Since you said analog, I assume that area still has analog basic cable channels, and those are open to problems with signal. My TVs used to look terrible in analog, but once a new line was ran from the street to the Splitter, PQ improved drastically.

..................
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I could never watch stretch. Disfigured heads and oval basketballs annoy me. ;) I prefer to keep everything they way it is. If it's 4:3, it stays 4:3. If it's 16:9, it stays 16:9. It it's 4:3 and letterbox, it stays windowboxed. I can't stand stretch-o-vision or zoom-o-vision or whatever.

I agree, if your stretch is inaccurate. Luckily my two panels have very good and accurate "Full" aspect modes, especially the main TV. As I've said before, how NEC is able to get such incredible accuracy in Full mode I dunno, but it's one of the things they are known for.

I'm kind of wondering about that Toby. I"ve never been able to stretch an HD channel broadcasting a SD program. I can get rid of that line as I said earlier, and for some reason I can pick the 4:3 option but that's it.

With my old Sony Wega I couldn't change anything. I got the bars and that was that.

As far as stretching goes, I understand where your coming from nickdawg on that but I do stretch SD digital or analog channels and on my LG I use Stretch 2. Unless you've got something scrolling on the bottom (like CNN) you can't see the difference.

Different TV's offer different aspect ratio features and is often related to the input being used. Some allow you to change the aspect on any feed, some don't allow any aspect changes on particular feeds. With some, like my Panny, the RG6 Coax input doesn't allow aspect changes on HD broadcasts, Changing the input to say Component and that same HD feed now allows aspect changes.

To further complicate things, how many different aspect ratio choices can also be dependent on the source feed. On some feeds I have 6 aspect choices, while on other feeds I have only three aspect choices.

Sounds like you also have an accurate Full mode as well. ;)

A few things to check, adding to nickdawgs suggestions:

- use the Component video output from the STB (three cables for video, red-green-blue) NOT the yellow cable
- set video output on STB to Through, not fixed or upconvert. Their new TV will upconvert far better than the SA STB
- check aspect ratio and zoom on the TV
- may need to calibrate the TV on this input to get the best PQ

Cable co's will, rightfully so, push (encourage) their pay services and discourage their free services like QAM. As nickdawg has suggested, QAM is quite limited and quirky so I doubt your folks would like using it anyway. QAM PQ is excellent, same PQ as is offered via the pay SD/Digital/HD feeds from the cable co., assuming you can find your selected ch this week. :)

Like I always say engineers spend billions on camera lenses to reduce linearity distortion below 1% and end users blow it clean to hell in 10 seconds.
JJK

I wonder why TW Columbus has more HD channels than us now? We always were similar to them before and they had similar mergers as the Cleveland market in. Very frustrating. Here is TW Columbus HD list and sorry if this has already been posted.

Channel Channel Name

700 HBO HDTV



701 Showtime HD



702 Cinemax HD



703 Starz HD



704 WCMH HD Columbus, OH (NBC)



706 WSYX HD Columbus, Ohio (ABC)



710 WBNS HD Columbus, Ohio (CBS)



714 CNN HD



715 Fox News Channel HD



722 ESPN News HD



728 WTTE HD Columbus, OH (Fox)



734 WOSU HD Columbus, OH (PBS)



740 Travel Channel HD



743 BIO HD



746 WWHO 46 HD Columbus, Ohio (CW)



747 FX HD



748 Hallmark Movie Channel HD



749 LMNHD



750 HD Theater



751 TNT in HD



752 Sports Time Ohio HD



753 FSN Ohio HD



754 Versus HD



757 Big Ten Network HD



758 The Golf Channel HD



759 TBS in HD



760 USA HD



761 National Geographic HD



762 Discovery Channel HD



763 Science Channel HD



764 Animal Planet HD



765 TLC HD



766 A&E HD



767 History HD



768 HGTV HD



769 Food Network HD



770 Disney HD



772 ABC Family HD



774 Palladia HD



775 MGM HD



777 HDNet



778 HDNET Movies



780 Universal HD



785 ESPN-HD



786 ESPN2-HD



795 HD Showcase On Demand



796 Big Ten Network HD On Demand



799 HD Movies On Demand

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Are you pulling my leg on this one? Are you joking? The difference is plain as day. It's wrong. The low quality picture from cable suffers severely from stretching or zooming. Any picture suffers, but the bandwidth starved are the worst. Plus, people look out of shape. Circles look oval, actresses look fat. Not a pretty picture.

I have two ways to stretch. One is through the TV itself, called "WIDE". This is the most horrific thing I've ever seen in my life. It's also the default setting on the TV out of the box. "WIDE" appears to be a non-linear stretch method, like the one used by networks such as TNT and TBS. You know, when things on the sides appear larger and things in the center are smaller or normal size.

The other is "stretch" provided by the cable box. This setting is not as bad as "wide" from the TV, but it's not good either. Objects don't look as distorted, but they still don't look right. I prefer OAR. And the nice thing about Navigator is it won't let you permanently stretch the picture. If you push the "#" button on one channel, it goes back to sidebar when you change the channel.

I have another question for you? What do you do to letterbox programming, like USA or F/X? Do you leave the picture expanded with the bars on top and bottom:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:? Or do you use "zoom-o-vision"?:eek:


I think this question has been answered by the others. As I said I understand where you're coming from, that's the way it was on my Sony. Kind of. But this "stectch 2" on my LG makes it hardly noticeable.

You can still have it connected on RF 4, it may be useful if there's also a VCR connected, since VCRs are not component capable. I have Component RGB and the RF 4 cables connected to my box, along with Digital Audio Coax. and the L/R baseband cables. Everything works fine. The only thing I can think of is a wiring problem. Since you said analog, I assume that area still has analog basic cable channels, and those are open to problems with signal. My TVs used to look terrible in analog, but once a new line was ran from the street to the Splitter, PQ improved drastically.

Just want to touch on a couple of other things, nickdawg didn't mention.

It might be wiring but more then likely I would guess it's signal related. Have TW (or whomever) come out and check his signal all the way out to the box or poll, whatever he has in his area. I needed a signal booster which TW provided at no charge.

He does not need the box for HD local. However for any cable digital channels he will need it. If he only wants locals then TW is feeding him a line of garbage. Elimination of the box and digital service will limit his selections, but if he isn't using them why pay for it?

It sounds like the tech that did the install didn't take a good look at the channels. Try removing the box and go directly into the television. Run the cable search and see what you come up with. If the picture is still bad, have them come out and check the signal.

I wonder why TW Columbus has more HD channels than us now? We always were similar to them before and they had similar mergers as the Cleveland market in. Very frustrating. Here is TW Columbus HD list and sorry if this has already been posted.

I believe that Columbus has SDV (switched digital video) which allows for more bandwith therefore more HD. If you search around in this thread you will see several examples of other cities that have like 50+ HD channels.

We will be getting SDV someday. The general thinking is that due to the fact TW picked up Adelphia and Comcast both getting all these systems on the same page is an issue. Adelphia never bothered to do it when they bought out the mom and pop cable channels, so in essence you really are dealing with about 7 different cable companies.

I know - what is funny is I lived in Columbus for the last 10 years and then moved to Amherst, OH. In Columbus, we had Adelphia cable, which TW purchased, so they have always had the same issues that TW Cleveland had. It just makes me wonder why they moved so much faster and Cleveland still seems like it is in the stone age.

I believe that Columbus has SDV (switched digital video) which allows for more bandwith therefore more HD. If you search around in this thread you will see several examples of other cities that have like 50+ HD channels.

We will be getting SDV someday. The general thinking is that due to the fact TW picked up Adelphia and Comcast both getting all these systems on the same page is an issue. Adelphia never bothered to do it when they bought out the mom and pop cable channels, so in essence you really are dealing with about 7 different cable companies.

I know - what is funny is I lived in Columbus for the last 10 years and then moved to Amherst, OH. In Columbus, we had Adelphia cable, which TW purchased, so they have always had the same issues that TW Cleveland had. It just makes me wonder why they moved so much faster and Cleveland still seems like it is in the stone age.

I already answered that. Not only did TW purchase Adelphia, it also purchased Comcast.

Now I don't know the history of Adelphia and the Columbus area but over here it was really a bunch of cable companies under one name. First they had to get the line ups the same. Now they have one problem I know for certain and another that I'm kind of sure about but not completely.

The first issue that I'm sure about is the Comcast people. They wern't even using the same equipment and I don't think to this day they can use "On Demand" channels. At least the last I heard they couldn't. They are using Motorola boxes and everyone else uses Scientific Atlanta. Now I don't have any idea how big the old Comcast area is but either they got to get new boxes or they will have to figure out a way to make them work with their system.

Next issue that I think is a problem is the majority of ex Adelphia people using DVR's are using SARA software. SARA itself should be able to handle SDV - but it might not. Generally SARA is regarded as inferior software. The old Time Warner people were switched to the Navigtor software from Passport. It could be that they cannot run a system with two different softwares. So why not just change SARA to Navigator? Good question. I don't know the answer but I speculate that they can't do it, or have not figured it out.

I've heard of two cases of SARA being changed to Navigator, one of them came from Cathode Kid, who is a respected and knowledgeable person in this thread. But until I hear more I'm thinking they can't do it.

And the final answer is, this is Cleveland. Larger then Columbus but you have politicians in that area. Hence a better lineup in HD.

And even the lineup you pointed out is pretty pathetic to places like Austin, Texas, and I believe Buffalo, New York has a pretty large lineup. Somewhere in Eastern New York anyway.

And even the lineup you pointed out is pretty pathetic to places like Austin, Texas, and I believe Buffalo, New York has a pretty large lineup. Somewhere in Eastern New York anyway.

The TWC Buffalo area system is the former Adelphia system there. It looks like they must have SDV, here's their HD llneup:

------------

702 WGRZ NBC HD
703 WNED PBS HD
704 WIVB CBS HD
706 WUTV FOX HD
707 WKBW ABC HD
708 MyTV Buffalo HD
709 WNLO - CW23 HD
715 HGTV HD
716 Food Network HD
719 Fox Business Network
720 Fox News HD
721 CNN HD
723 TBS in HD
724 TNT HD
725 ESPNU HD
726 ESPN-HD
727 ESPN2 HD
728 ESPN News HD
729 NHL Network HD
730 MSG HD
731 SportsNet NY HD
732 Tennis Channel HD
733 Outdoor Channel HD
734 National Geographic HD
735 Travel Channel HD
736 TLC HD
737 Science Channel HD
738 Discovery Channel HD
739 Animal Planet HD
740 Discovery HD Theater
741 Planet Green HD
742 A&E HD
743 BIO HD
744 History in HD
747 Cartoon Network HD
748 Toon Disney HD
749 ABC Family HD
750 Disney HD
751 Lifetime Movie Network HD
753 MGM HD
757 FX HD
760 Palladia
769 SPEED HD
770 YES HD
771 Versus HD
772 Golf Channel HD
773 NHL Center Ice/MLB Extra Innings HD
774 NBA League Pass HD
780 HBO HD
781 Showtime HD
782 Starz HD
783 Cinemax HD
789 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
790 Universal HD
791 HD Net
792 HDNET Movies
795 Adult On Demand - HD
797 HD Movies On Demand
798 HD Pay Per View Events
799 Free HD On Demand

I saw an item on the news crawl of 19 Action News at 5 saying some viewers in Wadsworth and Conneaut might be losing CBS and My Network TV programming in the coming days due to a dispute with the cable provider.

Ahh, how lucky they are!! ;););)

I saw an item on the news crawl of 19 Action News at 5 saying some viewers in Wadsworth and Conneaut might be losing CBS and My Network TV programming in the coming days due to a dispute with the cable provider.

Ahh, how lucky they are!! ;););)

When TW first took over 2 years ago I saw a blip saying that FOX HD may not return in the Plain Dealer. Of course that didn't happen, and I don't know if it's still around but the blog on the Ohio Media said don't pay any mind to it. Doesn't mean anything. They have to notify the public by law, just in case it doesn't work out.

do you(or anyone) think we will ever think we will see a HD lineup like that in NE Ohio...

If we did I would go out and buy another HD TV....

yep, 2012

do you(or anyone) think we will ever think we will see a HD lineup like that in NE Ohio...



Yes, it's called DirecTV :D

yep, 2012

WOW..that soon....lol

Yes, it's called DirecTV :D

My Problem is I am from Erie Pa..but get the same TW Channels that you do in NE Ohio...and Direct doesn't carry ANY of the Erie local Channel..Standard or in HD..while Dish just carries Standard..

do you(or anyone) think we will ever think we will see a HD lineup like that in NE Ohio...

If we did I would go out and buy another HD TV....

It will happen, but it's not going to be this year. Consider the Columbus line up. That's pretty sparse compared to Buffalo.

To the best of my knowledge only 4, maybe 5 cities have that type of line up. So what I'm trying to say as politely as I can, TWNEO customers are probably on the bottom of the toting poll. I stated all the reasons previously.

Yes, it's called DirecTV :D

Yep, this is true!;)

I would take 1/2 of that right now...

I called TW on Sunday about a problem I was having on my Regular TV and I asked about anything on new HD channels being added...I said if you look at Buffalo or even Dayton ..they have 20 or 30 more HD channels then us...he was suprised by that..but said..each area is run separate...and does what is best for them....he said he heard about new channels coming after the first of the year..but didn't know when or which channels they might be

I would take 1/2 of that right now...

I called TW on Sunday about a problem I was having on my Regular TV and I asked about anything on new HD channels being added...I said if you look at Buffalo or even Dayton ..they have 20 or 30 more HD channels then us...he was suprised by that..but said..each area is run separate...and does what is best for them....he said he heard about new channels coming after the first of the year..but didn't know when or which channels they might be

Marty: They also mailed out something to people saying SDV is going to start on October 20, 2008. We're past that.

I really wouldn't be surprised if they throw us a bone. But don't expect a lot of meat on it.:)

And never forget hooks #1 rule: never believe anything a CSR from TW tells you.

Did you know that they actually try to get you off the phone asap? That's not their fault, but they get timed on their calls so they give you a default answer. If you would have called in September they would have said November.

When TW first took over 2 years ago I saw a blip saying that FOX HD may not return in the Plain Dealer. Of course that didn't happen, and I don't know if it's still around but the blog on the Ohio Media said don't pay any mind to it. Doesn't mean anything. They have to notify the public by law, just in case it doesn't work out.

Only time they talk about it on air is when it is serious. According to twcneo.com, WKYC and WBNX are also "up for contract" soon, yet neither one has said anything on the news about it. I think this cable system in question may actually lose WOIO/WUAB. Although, it's really not much of a loss. No more 19 Inaction Nudes and no more sh*tty CBS primetime programming, assassinated with snipes!! :D:D:D:D

It will happen, but it's not going to be this year. Consider the Columbus line up. That's pretty sparse compared to Buffalo.

To the best of my knowledge only 4, maybe 5 cities have that type of line up. So what I'm trying to say as politely as I can, TWNEO customers are probably on the bottom of the toting poll. I stated all the reasons previously.

The shopping tier is already passed in SDV. If you tune to those channels in diagnostic mode, the channel name has "SDV" in it and it even says about the channel "(DVR SDB)". There's also several test channels up in the 800s of the sports tier, that must be up next. Plus, they're probably working behind the scenes in other areas to get SDV and Navigator up and running. I remember seeing a February listed here as new channels coming. Sounds reasonable, since that's how they announced the March change last year. And it came in March, only two weeks late!!:p:p:p:p:p

Remember, this is not sh*tty backwoods Adelphia Cable anymore. This is Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio. This is millions of customers. This is a big ass market with AT&T's Advanced TV as a direct competitor as well as both sats. We're more important than you think. I remember the channel change and those additional channels being called as "bullsh*t". I remember calling "bullsh*t" on deploying SDV. All we can do is wait and see. I'm gonna be going to TWC in the coming days to swap that box, I'll ask about HD and see what I get.

Marty: They also mailed out something to people saying SDV is going to start on October 20, 2008. We're past that.

I really wouldn't be surprised if they throw us a bone. But don't expect a lot of meat on it.:)



I don't care about getting the 50+ channel Texas/South Carolina lineups. I'd be happy with a Dayton style lineup that contains CNN, USA, F/X and SCIFI. I was a bunch of a crap on that list I wouldn't even watch in "Ultra Super Duper Special 3D HDTV". :D:D And I don't care where they add the new channels, even if it is just on the system that already has Navigator and SDV deployed. That's cool with me! :cool:

Only time they talk about it on air is when it is serious. According to twcneo.com, WKYC and WBNX are also "up for contract" soon, yet neither one has said anything on the news about it. I think this cable system in question may actually lose WOIO/WUAB. Although, it's really not much of a loss. No more 19 Inaction Nudes and no more sh*tty CBS primetime programming, assassinated with snipes!! :D:D:D:D

Say want you want about channel 19, I record more CBS shows then anything else.



The shopping tier is already passed in SDV. If you tune to those channels in diagnostic mode, the channel name has "SDV" in it and it even says about the channel "(DVR SDB)". There's also several test channels up in the 800s of the sports tier, that must be up next. Plus, they're probably working behind the scenes in other areas to get SDV and Navigator up and running. I remember seeing a February listed here as new channels coming. Sounds reasonable, since that's how they announced the March change last year. And it came in March, only two weeks late!!:p:p:p:p:p

There must be something wrong with your memory.:eek: If you're referring to the lineup change that did not happen everywhere for everybody. For some of us it took a while. My contact it head end said they were working on it. Funny how you don't mention the letters for October 20th. Does that skip your mind?:rolleyes:

Remember, this is not sh*tty backwoods Adelphia Cable anymore. This is Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio. This is millions of customers. This is a big ass market with AT&T's Advanced TV as a direct competitor as well as both sats. We're more important than you think. I remember the channel change and those additional channels being called as "bullsh*t". I remember calling "bullsh*t" on deploying SDV. All we can do is wait and see. I'm gonna be going to TWC in the coming days to swap that box, I'll ask about HD and see what I get.

Heh Heh. And you will swallow it hook, line and sinker! Here's the rub nickdawg. It's not the cable company, it's the area we live in that's a "backwoods" area. Trust me when I tell you that most of the nation looks down on Cleveland in general. That's not to say you and I live in bad neighborhoods or even in Cleveland but the rep still comes with the territory.

I don't understand what you mean about the shopping channels. If they are in SDV, why do I still get them on my TiVo? If the testing is finish, why isn't it active? Probably because it's only in your area.

Inundated, do you see anything about shopping channels and SDV on your SA 8000?

Say want you want about channel 19, I record more CBS shows then anything else.

I like the Monday comedies, CSI:NY/Miami and Ghost Whisperer. I'd like them even better through WKBN!! ;):D:D:D:D

There must be something wrong with your memory.:eek: If you're referring to the lineup change that did not happen everywhere for everybody. For some of us it took a while. My contact it head end said they were working on it. Funny how you don't mention the letters for October 20th. Does that skip your mind?:rolleyes:

My box said SDV was enabled the week of October 20. Even though channels were not passed yet, it was active that week, as promised. As for the lineup change, I assume this will happen the same way. First the Canton/South area gets it, then Akron, then northern parts and Cleveland and its suburbs.

I don't understand what you mean about the shopping channels. If they are in SDV, why do I still get them on my TiVo? If the testing is finish, why isn't it active? Probably because it's only in your area.

Inundated, do you see anything about shopping channels and SDV on your SA 8000?

That's because your headend is still sending them through in regular digital. It's not one blanket system, so channels can be non-SDV or even not digital in one area. but different elsewhere.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

NBC Weather Plus Ends It's Broadcast

As we mentioned in early fall, NBC is pulling the curtain down on NBC Weather Plus this week as the channel shuts down. However, there is some good news for Weather Plus trekkies in that WKYC will continue a local version of the channel featuring a local "L" bar for your area temperatures and forecast conditions. However, this service will now be mainly seen on just our digital subchannel 3.2 instead of on your local cable company channels which will not carry the channel after this week. This feed will also be available on wkyc.com on the main weather page.

Great. Bandwidth will still be ROBBED from the HD main channel so the four people who get WKYC OTA can have a weather channel. But it won't be on cable. WHY THE F**K NOT!!!! WOIO's piece of sh*t channel is on cable, why not WKYC? What a f**king waste of bandwidth to have something for OTA only.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The first issue that I'm sure about is the Comcast people. They wern't even using the same equipment and I don't think to this day they can use "On Demand" channels. At least the last I heard they couldn't. They are using Motorola boxes and everyone else uses Scientific Atlanta. Now I don't have any idea how big the old Comcast area is but either they got to get new boxes or they will have to figure out a way to make them work with their system.


My parents are in Mentor. Ex-Comcast now TWC area. They have always had a Scientific Atlanta box (just went from SD->HD in the last few days) since they opted to go to "Digital Cable" when switching to TWC. They have On-Demand channels. The only difference I can see is the logical channel numbering on their system.

So who uses the Motorola boxes? The other day, I saw a TWC commercial and I swear I was a Motorola STB by a TV in the ad. That got me thinking(and scared). What if they start using Motorola boxes here? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek:

The horror!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Luckily, I think the different boxes are part of the problem with the network. Hopefully, the Motorola people will be assimilated into a Scientific Atlanta system. I like the Scientific Atlanta boxes better. :D

The next thing that needs to go are the Pioneer boxes. The only thing the BD-V1000s/BD-V3500HDs are good for is restoring reefs for undersea life. Plus they'd be swimming with the fishes, where they belong! ;)

My parents are in Mentor. Ex-Comcast now TWC area. They have always had a Scientific Atlanta box (just went from SD->HD in the last few days) since they opted to go to "Digital Cable" when switching to TWC. They have On-Demand channels. The only difference I can see is the logical channel numbering on their system.

Well, that would make sense. TW is not going to hand out Moto boxes. My point is that there are still a great deal of people with Moto boxes out there.

Now if they got digital cable when it was Comcast and they got an SA box, you'd have a point.

So who uses the Motorola boxes? The other day, I saw a TWC commercial and I swear I was a Motorola STB by a TV in the ad. That got me thinking(and scared). What if they start using Motorola boxes here? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek:

The horror!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Luckily, I think the different boxes are part of the problem with the network. Hopefully, the Motorola people will be assimilated into a Scientific Atlanta system. I like the Scientific Atlanta boxes better. :D

The next thing that needs to go are the Pioneer boxes. The only thing the BD-V1000s/BD-V3500HDs are good for is restoring reefs for undersea life. Plus they'd be swimming with the fishes, where they belong! ;)

Oh, that will be easy. "You will be assimilated.":p

And I'm going to take this Ford transmission and put it on this Chevy.:rolleyes:

Great. Bandwidth will still be ROBBED from the HD main channel so the four people who get WKYC OTA can have a weather channel. But it won't be on cable. WHY THE F**K NOT!!!! WOIO's piece of sh*t channel is on cable, why not WKYC? What a f**king waste of bandwidth to have something for OTA only.

Did you really expect it to go away? Really? The question was never "will the WX+ subchannel go away," the question was "what will it be replaced with?"

A good number of stations are recycling the WX+ equipment and doing local weather. Some are doing other things like This TV or Mexicanal.

That said, it being dropped from cable is stupid. Wonder why that's happening.

- Trip

Did you really expect it to go away? Really? The question was never "will the WX+ subchannel go away," the question was "what will it be replaced with?"

A good number of stations are recycling the WX+ equipment and doing local weather. Some are doing other things like This TV or Mexicanal.*

That said, it being dropped from cable is stupid. Wonder why that's happening.

- Trip

It was a question. "What will happen to 3-2?" One of the possibilities was "go away". What's the point of keeping the channel running without a national feed on it? That makes it as bad as 19-2. Or even better, why not run paid programs on it all day!!! ;):p:p:p:p:p The bottom line is: SUBCHANNELS ARE EVIL. They should not be allowed on ANY affiliate of the five major networks(NBC, ABC, CBS, CW, FOX). CBS is smart in not allowing its O&O stations to have any subchannels. The only stations in Cleveland that should be eligible to have subchannels are: 61, 67, 17 and the to-be-launched 23. It is absolutely wrong that CBS and NBC degrade their HD picture.

Applause to WEWS, WBNX and WJW for resisting the urge to follow the sheep and ruin their HD signals.

*I guess we dodged a bullet there. The only thing MORE useless than a local weather channel would be those services you listed.:eek:

I'm anxiously waiting for This TV to launch in my area. It looks like a great service, I can't wait.

- Trip

I'm anxiously waiting for This TV to launch in my area. It looks like a great service, I can't wait.

- Trip

As long as it is attached to 23, 61 or 67. OK. ;):D:D:D:D:D:D:D

It was a question. "What will happen to 3-2?" One of the possibilities was "go away". What's the point of keeping the channel running without a national feed on it? That makes it as bad as 19-2. Or even better, why not run paid programs on it all day!!! ;):p:p:p:p:p The bottom line is: SUBCHANNELS ARE EVIL. They should not be allowed on ANY affiliate of the five major networks(NBC, ABC, CBS, CW, FOX). CBS is smart in not allowing its O&O stations to have any subchannels. The only stations in Cleveland that should be eligible to have subchannels are: 61, 67, 17 and the to-be-launched 23. It is absolutely wrong that CBS and NBC degrade their HD picture.

Applause to WEWS, WBNX and WJW for resisting the urge to follow the sheep and ruin their HD signals.

*I guess we dodged a bullet there. The only thing MORE useless than a local weather channel would be those services you listed.:eek:

Wow. I'm sorry, but that is totally ass-backwards thinking. How much bandwidth do you really think is necessary to give a good HD picture? And how much bandwidth do you think the 480i subchannels use? You get roughly ~18mbps to work with on the channel as a whole. decent quality SD channels on cable use around 2mbps. 2mbps is peanuts for a 720p or 1080i signal especially when it's already using upwards of 15mbps. I dare you to actually say you can SEE a difference between say a 1080i picture at 15mbps and 18mbps.

Fact is subchannels are one of the few added features of this digital transition that actually make it worthwhile for consumers. Especially for those who simulcast REAL content on those subchannels. Good example is WFMJ. They run WBCB on 21-2 which otherwise is only available on cable and was never broadcasted OTA in analog. And WKBN with it's high power transmitter runs WYFX as a subchannel in SD which otherwise is hard to get on analog anywhere outside of youngstown due to it's LP status.

But I do agree that stuff like these weather subchannels are getting really out of hand. Nearly every broadcaster has them and more often than not there are more than one of them running in a single market.

But subchannels are far from 'useless' and I dare you to give me an honest comparison in a true blind test that you can tell the difference in an HD picture with a few extra mbits added on to an already high bandwidth signal.

Did you really expect it to go away? Really? The question was never "will the WX+ subchannel go away," the question was "what will it be replaced with?"

A good number of stations are recycling the WX+ equipment and doing local weather. Some are doing other things like This TV or Mexicanal.

That said, it being dropped from cable is stupid. Wonder why that's happening.

- Trip

the original quote came from the blog on WKYC's website, but the required legal notice that TW posted end of November ( required 30 days notice)
just notes that 'WKYC Weather Plus is ceasing operations on 12/31/08.'

Dont know if the blogger for the station has been told something different or was just assuming, but heck if they can keep the screen up for the music channel on 43 long after it went dark, seems strange they would pull it that quickly. Maybe Gannett should have figured out what they wanted to do before now. ( not like they didn't know it was happening)