Does anyone know if/when there are plans for DirecTV to carry WUAB-HD, and if not what the holdup is? It is the only major Cleveland local that is only offered in SD. I have tried contacting WUAB using the email address on their homepage (info@my43.net) a few times and have gotten no response. When I called DirecTV they game me an unsurprising lack of info.

I got to be honest, is there anything on in HD in that channel? Is there anything worth watching on that channel? 19 Action News at 10:00 is all I've ever seen. Good comedy show and excellent for promo for their real channel 19 news.;)

D* took forever to put the CW on, I think the reason they haven't put WUAB-HD on is because of poor programming and lack of true HD.

I got to be honest, is there anything on in HD in that channel? Is there anything worth watching on that channel? 19 Action News at 10:00 is all I've ever seen. Good comedy show and excellent for promo for their real channel 19 news.;)

D* took forever to put the CW on, I think the reason they haven't put WUAB-HD on is because of poor programming and lack of true HD.

First and foremost, the handful of Cavs games that they show. Beyond that, it would be nice to get WWE Smackdown in HD as well as the news (I know Action News gets its share of criticism around these parts but my wife loves it). It's not like the CW has loads of great HD content either though, so I am kind of surprised that they have one and not the other. Would this be more of a DirecTV issue or a WUAB issue?

OK, I'll just leave it as government screw up. The expiration dates were dumb.

I was actually discussing this with my wife last night and what we couldn't understand is if you hand out a coupon, and it is not used, and you have X amount dollars, wouldn't you still have that money once the coupon expires?

If I write a check but I don't send it that money is still in the bank.

But I'm trying to apply common sense here and that is not something government seems to do.

It does appear they are going to try and use that expired coupon money to re-distribute some. I read that a while ago, but a link that was posted a few up has this quote:

The agency will send out coupons to those on the list only as unredeemed coupons currently in circulation expire.

http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/2009/01/news-feds-start-wait-list-for-dtv.html

Read this little tidbit from OMW:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/01/time-warner-hd.html

Read this little tidbit from OMW:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/01/time-warner-hd.html

I hope this didn't surprise you. It's what I've been saying for some time now.

Yes, it's all our fault! Unfortunately for you, Adelphia is the majority of the new TWNEO.:p:p

All anyone has to do is read back on my posts. When SDV was first mentioned, I knew the old Adelphia systems were not current with available technology and therefore I took the gamble on buying my TiVo S3 because I knew they wouldn't pull it off before a solution for SDV would be available. At that time I had no idea what or how, but I was banking on time. Now we have the tuning adapter and my bet paid off.

I've been saying for years now that the Adelphia and Comcast systems were a big problem. Thank's for the link, it affirms what I have thought all along.;)

The "difference" that would be made is this big event is not happening in the dead of winter. I think you're forgetting that more states than just Ohio up North have winter weather. And as far as signals, I'm sure many are holding out hope they will get stronger. But what if it is the antenna's fault? Do you want to climb on the roof and replace an antenna? How many antenna installers will you find working in the February-March "dead of winter" here? Procrastination will take place regardless of the date, that's not the reason. The reason IS the weather.

Ridiculous. I'll bet the majority of the country has no snow or ice to deal with inbetween now and then, and as I stated they have been talking about this for two frigging years! If you were really stupid enough to wait until now and you have an antenna, too bad, so sad.

Sorry I took so long to respond on this, somehow I missed your reply and you know I always read everything you say, 'dawg!:D;)

It does appear they are going to try and use that expired coupon money to re-distribute some. I read that a while ago, but a link that was posted a few up has this quote:



http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/2009/01/news-feds-start-wait-list-for-dtv.html

Yes, I believe that's been discussed. The question is why did they put an expiration date on it? I could see 2/18, or 3/18 but 3 months after they sent it out? Now they have to double check to see if it's an original request or a duplicate. And you know the government, they can't even do an election with a computer let alone do a federal program with coupons!

Maybe I'll go back to my conspiracy theory.:)

I hope this didn't surprise you. It's what I've been saying for some time now.

Yes, it's all our fault! Unfortunately for you, Adelphia is the majority of the new TWNEO.:p:p

All anyone has to do is read back on my posts. When SDV was first mentioned, I knew the old Adelphia systems were not current with available technology and therefore I took the gamble on buying my TiVo S3 because I knew they wouldn't pull it off before a solution for SDV would be available. At that time I had no idea what or how, but I was banking on time. Now we have the tuning adapter and my bet paid off.

I've been saying for years now that the Adelphia and Comcast systems were a big problem. Thank's for the link, it affirms what I have thought all along.;)

The thing that really cranks me is what Mr. Jasso said. "What we don't want to do is treat our Akron and Cleveland systems differently" Bull f**king s**t!!! The systems ARE different. WE(those of us on the Akron/Canton system) have been customers of TWC for years. If we have an advanced system ready to go, why the hell are they NOT using it? This article shows the utter stupidity of Time Warner Cable. All their competitors have more than 14 HD channels, yet they choose to sit back and piss on EVERYONE just because a few areas need more work. If they wanted to keep their customers, they'd increase the number of channels where they can with SDV and add as many possible in areas without SDV.

Those of us who are on existing TWC systems are entitled to these channels NOW!! Our high bills have paid for this crap and I want it used to its full potential.

The thing that really cranks me is what Mr. Jasso said. "What we don't want to do is treat our Akron and Cleveland systems differently" Bull f**king s**t!!! The systems ARE different. WE(those of us on the Akron/Canton system) have been customers of TWC for years. If we have an advanced system ready to go, why the hell are they NOT using it? This article shows the utter stupidity of Time Warner Cable. All their competitors have more than 14 HD channels, yet they choose to sit back and piss on EVERYONE just because a few areas need more work. If they wanted to keep their customers, they'd increase the number of channels where they can with SDV and add as many possible in areas without SDV.

Those of us who are on existing TWC systems are entitled to these channels NOW!! Our high bills have paid for this crap and I want it used to its full potential.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I told you that you wouldn't get it before we did. Heck I even hoped you would get it just so you would stop complaining.

However what put's this sh*t eating grin I have on my face right now, is the fact that I was right!:p:p:p:p

(clap) (clap) (clap) (clap) :D:D:D:D:D

Congratulations! You were right about not getting any more channels. Heartwarming.

Monk and Psych are on USA tomorrow---the new season starts.

Rescue Me starts in March and Nip/Tuck starts soon as well.

EVERYBODY else gets to watch those shows in HD. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Think I'll be watching those shows?

All signs point to NO!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Think I'll be watching those shows?

All signs point to NO!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

You can still watch them in SD. Live with it. :D

And there are probably very good reasons TWC's thinking is that way, much of it, I presume, having to with the fact that they market all of their Northeast Ohio systems as a group.

And there are probably very good reasons TWC's thinking is that way, much of it, I presume, having to with the fact that they market all of their Northeast Ohio systems as a group.

Last time I checked, AT&T's "U-verse" was starting to pop up in the Akron area and suburbs. I remember discussion about it here and it was not available in some other area that was former Adelphia. THAT is TWC's biggest mistake. Akron and most of its suburbs(Stow, Cuyahoga Falls, Tallmadge, Green, Barberton) and Canton and surrounding areas are existing TWC and have been for years. These are the areas that got the lineup change first last year as well as the Navigator conversion and **should** have SDV deployed and active on STBs.

It just screams poor business standards to piss on your viewers by not using technology in areas that have the appropriate technology. And it's even worse that there is yet another competitor other than D* or E*.
----
EDIT: Plus, we could have had SDV here(in old TWC land) a few years ago, had it been necessary. We've had digital simulcast on below 100 channels since 2006. On top of that, TWC having control over this system since near the beginning and the updates made for digital cable in recent years, it wasn't much of a problem installing SDV, which is already active on the Shopping channels (185-200) as well as 10 or 15 + "duplicate" channels in the 800s / 900s.

The problem here is Time Warner Cable royally f**ked the pooch by investing so much in VOD services. I remember around 2001-2002 they really started going balls out adding VOD services beyond Movies On Demand and HBO On Demand. That was their main priority, that was the way they were trying to "one up" satellite.

And it really bit them in the ass. But in TWC's defense, nobody could have really seen this HD explosion coming. If you go back to January 2007, the number of HD channels we currently have on TWC was about it for HD offerings, on any system. Of course we had even less channels on TWC back then, but there wasn't that much more to be had by anyone. And then came D*'s claim of "100 HD channels", which even I laughed at and called "bulls..t!" on. But they did it, and several other companies were able to at least be competitive with D*.

EDIT: Plus, we could have had SDV here(in old TWC land) a few years ago, had it been necessary. We've had digital simulcast on below 100 channels since 2006.

Extremely doubtful. SDV was just being started at that time, TWC did not make a commitment to a full roll out until mid year 2007.

The problem here is Time Warner Cable royally f**ked the pooch by investing so much in VOD services. I remember around 2001-2002 they really started going balls out adding VOD services beyond Movies On Demand and HBO On Demand. That was their main priority, that was the way they were trying to "one up" satellite.

And it really bit them in the ass. But in TWC's defense, nobody could have really seen this HD explosion coming. If you go back to January 2007, the number of HD channels we currently have on TWC was about it for HD offerings, on any system. Of course we had even less channels on TWC back then, but there wasn't that much more to be had by anyone. And then came D*'s claim of "100 HD channels", which even I laughed at and called "bulls..t!" on. But they did it, and several other companies were able to at least be competitive with D*.

I don't think that SDV is that much different then On Demand. In a sense, I believe it's very similar with the exception that you pick the channel up "live" as opposed to the way On Demand works.

I totally agree with you about D* and the claim of 100 HD channels. I thought, impossible and I'll be a monkey's uncle if they didn't pull it off.

I know how you feel about satellite so there is no relief there. My experience was 180 degrees different then yours.

What angers me about all this is that I believe right now TWC has the ability to add additional HD channels without SDV. They are not out of bandwith, we know this from the Olympic channels that they added. They could put USA and FX on if they wanted to but they choose not to.:mad:

I'd love USA and FX in HD, so I'm angry about that. And they give us these BS channels like Home and Garden and Food Network. Yes, I understand there are some programs people enjoy on those channels but I would take a really good drama or comedy over any of that.

It just screams poor business standards to piss on your viewers by not using technology in areas that have the appropriate technology. And it's even worse that there is yet another competitor other than D* or E*.
----


Here's where you're wrong. You can't give some of the people something that the majority of people in the same area are not capable of doing.

In your case TW's mistake was not calling it TW Akron, or something like that and making TWNEO a completely different thing to work with. But somebody, probably Mr. Fry, decided to make it all one company. With that decision came this problem.

I will tell you right now if I didn't have my two TiVo's I would jump ship now. I understand there is a signal you can get from the Southeast now. If that's the case and I hadn't already invested in TiVo they'd be out here already. Better analog picture. More HD. That's why I tell anyone who comes in here thinking about Sat vs Cable to go Satellite. The unfortunate experience you had and your mom had is not the experience of the majority.

Let me just add one more thing about my satellite experience: I had satellite in Los Angeles with Primestar and it worked great back in 1996. I had cable when I first moved to Northern Kentucky in 1997 and got rid of it within 2 months, went back to Primestar. D* bought out Primestar and around 2001 I got D-TiVo. Now TiVo is coming back to Direct TV. I'd jump on that band wagon in a second. Cable sucks.

Oh and of course, there is one other thing for Sat TV to be angry at Cable Providers about... the whole lobbying Columbus to pass a sales tax on Sat TV, but not Cable TV. Speak about unfair competition. Cable knows it can't run with Sat TV, so they have to spend money in Columbus in order for the State to make cable more cost competitive.

Granted, an argument could be made that the value of Sat TV is much higher and that Cable TV just sucks so bad that it doesn't deserve to be taxed... ;)

nickdawg, you're just whining because YOU happen to be in the original TWC area and YOU think they should make you happy first. :)

The problem is simple: When they make a major HD expansion, they advertise it. They need to let people know, so they don't go looking for competitors. But if they advertise it, they advertise it in the Cleveland based media (TV stations, etc.). If they "lit up" Akron first, they'd be deluged from calls from Cleveland-area former Adelphia subscribers who wouldn't be able to get the new stuff that's, well, being advertised. So, they can't advertise Akron-only services.

The bigger problem is that SDV or no, they're apparently still piecing together the incompatible Adelphia and Comcast systems. They have to do that no matter what they do with SDV or new HD channels.

You can try to ignore these realities, but you do so at your own peril.

In the end, the decision is yours...if you are frustrated by the lack of HD programming on TWC, you have choices. Or, you can wait until they get their act together. But your "Akron first, screw the rest of you" attitude will get nothing in the long run.

Oh and of course, there is one other thing for Sat TV to be angry at Cable Providers about... the whole lobbying Columbus to pass a sales tax on Sat TV, but not Cable TV. Speak about unfair competition. Cable knows it can't run with Sat TV, so they have to spend money in Columbus in order for the State to make cable more cost competitive.

Granted, an argument could be made that the value of Sat TV is much higher and that Cable TV just sucks so bad that it doesn't deserve to be taxed... ;)

The case could also be made of pole and franchise fees paid by the cable companies and not the sat companies

..................
The problem here is Time Warner Cable royally f**ked the pooch by investing so much in VOD services. I remember around 2001-2002 they really started going balls out adding VOD services beyond Movies On Demand and HBO On Demand. That was their main priority, that was the way they were trying to "one up" satellite.................

I love VOD stuff! The more the merrier.

The case could also be made of pole and franchise fees paid by the cable companies and not the sat companies

Franchise fees? Paid to who?

If you're talking about local municipals, Ohio State Legislature changed that about a year ago to make room for AT&T Uverse. I don't know if franchise fees are paid to the state but I doubt it.

Franchise fees? Paid to who?

If you're talking about local municipals, Ohio State Legislature changed that about a year ago to make room for AT&T Uverse. I don't know if franchise fees are paid to the state but I doubt it.

Changed it how? Cities are no longer allowed to require them?

State get's their sales tax and CAT tax and others.

Changed it how? Cities are no longer allowed to require them?

State get's their sales tax and CAT tax and others.

That got change as I said earlier. By removing the right for a local area to franchise a cable company, it allowed AT&T to set up shop for UVerse.

Found a link here (http://www.freedomworks.org/processor/printer.php?issue_id=2845).

That got change as I said earlier. By removing the right for a local area to franchise a cable company, it allowed AT&T to set up shop for UVerse.

Found a link here (http://www.freedomworks.org/processor/printer.php?issue_id=2845).

Thanks. :) Your link proposes exactly that: pay a fee (franchise or other) to the State instead of having to pay and negotiate the same to each municipality.

The case could also be made of pole and franchise fees paid by the cable companies and not the sat companiesCurious argument... Sat company subscribers should be punished for their Sat service not requiring any physical infrastructure in a city or state? Sat company subscribers should be punished for their company of choice not having to encroach so broadly on public right-of-way?

Next we'll hear about a tax on airplane travelers to make up for the highway tolls they aren't paying.

Anyone surprised? Who's the "analog, two channel PCM broadcast being played out of an old set with one mono speaker" now?

January 9, 2009:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-dtv9-2009jan09,0,6537360.story

"On Thursday, President-elect Barack Obama asked Congress to postpone the federally mandated switch to all-digital broadcast television, called DTV, scheduled to take place Feb. 17."

October 11, 2008:
JM is an analog, two channel PCM broadcast being played out of an old set with one mono speaker. Loud an whiney with no depth or feeling. BO is the Dolby Digital 3/2.1 broadcast on an great surround system that you can feel when he talks. The floor shakes, sound that gives you goosebumps from the awsomeness---both in quality and substance.

Anyone surprised? Who's the "analog, two channel PCM broadcast being played out of an old set with one mono speaker" now?I'm assuming John McCain.

January 9, 2009:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-dtv9-2009jan09,0,6537360.story

"On Thursday, President-elect Barack Obama asked Congress to postpone the federally mandated switch to all-digital broadcast television, called DTV, scheduled to take place Feb. 17."All i want to know is if that happened, would that affect when WKYC moves to a decent part of the electromagnetic spectrum? Do the two events need to be concurrent? I'm sadly guessing the answer is yes.

All i want to know is if that happened, would that affect when WKYC moves to a decent part of the electromagnetic spectrum? Do the two events need to be concurrent? I'm sadly guessing the answer is yes.

I heard about it this morning. So we should encourage procrastinating in this country?

God, I'm so tired of hearing about this. Another 6 months or a year of "Get Ready for the Digital Conversion."

I say if they ain't ready make them buy cable or satellite. Better yet get rid of the analog cable altogether since that's causing bandwith reduction.

Who knows about WKYC? I can't bring it in OTA as it is now, not a bit. Not that it really matters to my bird but I think part of his plucking problem may have to do with the return of American Idol. How would you like to be in a cage sitting there watching garbage like that?

I heard about it this morning. So we should encourage procrastinating in this country?

God, I'm so tired of hearing about this. Another 6 months or a year of "Get Ready for the Digital Conversion.".........

Delays, cost overruns, missed target dates, poor implementation, confusion.... sounds like a typical govt program to me. You expected better?

CHANGE IS COMING...........except for OTA TV broadcasts. :D

Delays, cost overruns, missed target dates, poor implementation, confusion.... sounds like a typical govt program to me. You expected better?

CHANGE IS COMING...........except for OTA TV broadcasts. :D

I really don't care. I'm stuck with crummy Time Warner no matter what.

In the end, the decision is yours...if you are frustrated by the lack of HD programming on TWC, you have choices. .

Unfortunately, not all of us have a choice. I would probably go to sat in a heartbeat except for my neighbors huge trees blocking any and all shots of the sky from any place on property or roof. (Well, maybe a few of the trees are on my property.)

BTW: Those of you in Akron should have a better shot at Youngstown than those of us up in Cleveland. I was in Akron (I-77 North between downtown and the SR-21 merge) last week and all the Y-Town FM stations were coming in on my car radio as strong as the Cleveland stations...

...BTW I use a Silver Sensor for my indoor antenna and I get WKBN-DT 24/7 from Parma. Being on high ground helps, as well as aiming the antena through a window facing the transmitter. I also have a rooftop UHF antenna aimed at Youngstown, but the wind as knocked it out of whack (my chimney is too small to support the mast properly). I get the other 2 Youngstown stations from the rooftop when the atmosphere assists the signals. WYTV is supposed to get a major power increase soon so that may help get that station here in the near future.

Are you some kind of spokesperson for WKBN-DT?? I sure wish I could get this signal, but I can't since I'm in the valley. Surprisingly, I don't have any issues receiving WOIO-DT though. My rabbit ears work just fine for that here in Akron.

Unfortunately, not all of us have a choice. I would probably go to sat in a heartbeat except for my neighbors huge trees blocking any and all shots of the sky from any place on property or roof. (Well, maybe a few of the trees are on my property.)

I'm actually in the same boat, as is hookbill. Most people in the area are not, though. nickdawg is on the TWC Akron system, and most of that area is urban/suburban without high trees.

There's also U-verse, though I don't think they get out to Doylestown. I thought Doylestown had its own phone/cable company?

So, I do understand the frustration...I just hate reading nickdawg's strongly worded rants laced with dozens of emoticons to make a point. :D

I strongly suggest everyone here go to this post at Ohio Media Watch and put their $0.02 in on the TWC HD channel situation. I posted a lengthy comment about how there is bandwidth OBVIOUSLY available since THREE channels were added for the Olympics and there's no excuse to NOT have USA, F/X and Scifi in HD, since there is some bandwidth available on all of the NE Ohio systems.

If you want to see these channels, post your input and demand we get them!

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13975530&postID=6464154457754570978

And look Inundated, I did it without "strong language" and tons of Emoticons!!! ;);)

I usually don't agree with nickdawg much, but with the addition of the fact that at least here in legacy TW territory they have simply replaced a few of the analog channels that have moved to digital only packages with color bar test slides or 'this channel has moved' notices (And unless some out of this world technology has been invented to allow modulation of mpeg transport stream packets over a crystal clear viewable analog channel, the following point stands), someone apparently either isn't doing their job or is really dragging their feet.

These 'color bar' and 'this channel has moved' slides are wasting the same bandwidth as the original channels they replaced. Right now I currently see about 4 here like that in addition to about 2 public access channels that are no longer active but still displaying a picture. It's all a HUGE waste and they are complaining about not having enough bandwidth. Could easily fit in a dozen more HD channels with room to spare if they opened these wasted channel positions up for QAM usage.

And don't even get me started on the tv guide channel being duplicated on THREE different analog channels.

I did a quick check of the analog channels, what I found:

*78, 79 and 96 are no longer on at all.

*47 is showing color bars

*66 is showing the "this channel moved" slide, even though VERSUS moved back in October

*16 and 99 are showing "TV Guide channel". Since there is no virtual channel mapping on NTSC, TV guide channel exists on TWO physical channels!!:mad::mad:

*75 is Jewelry Television. Is it necessary to have this channel on analog tier?

*MTV2 and VH1 Classic are on 34 and 68 respectively. Is there any justifiable reason to have this many flavors of MTV/VH1 on the analog tier? And these are recent additions. They weren't there until recently. There is NO reason to add to analog channels.

Going with the "1 NTSC channel = 2 ATSC HD channel" formula that has been discussed before, killing just the "empty" channels and the duplicate of TV Guide channel would be enough for 5 or 6 HD channels.

Also, a look at "Suburban Cleveland 3" Lineup shows that there are three "Access" channels in the 20s range in addition to NEON on 23. So, eliminating those three "Access" channels and leaving just the NEON channel would mean that former Adelphia customers could get the same 6 HD channels TWC people would get.

TO make it simple for cable company people to understand:

Cable System |Channel #|New HD Channels
TWC Legacy|47, 66, 99|6
Adelphia|20, 21, 22|6

If 1 NTSC analog = 2 ATSC HD, then these 3 channels would equal 6 ATSC HD channels.

In addition to those listed channels, on this end of things I also see the following 'empty' channels:

9 (one of the fox stations that got removed. Forget which one or why. Used to be color bars but now dark static.)

12 also has tv guide in addition to 18 and 99 (16 might be the case for you with the public access channels up in the 20s. Ours WERE between 15-17 and all showed the same content.) so technically we have 3 where two could be eliminated.

47 which used to be GAC is dead with the color bars.

66, likewise, has the 'this channel moved' piece with probably the most gaudy font I have seen in ages.

75 is dead here.

78 and 79 are dead signal-wise with static.

96 is running the color bars.

----

Even with the discrepancies and throwing a pessimistic curve on it, we have 3-4 channels that can be opened up for QAM usage. Taking adaptive encoding into account and an average 3:1 ratio for HD channels, that gives us 9-12 channel slots possible. :confused:

Really would be nice to get an honest and concise explanation from the bean counters WHY they are falling behind so bad. There really is no legitimate excuse for it honestly. The capacity is there.

I strongly suggest everyone here go to this post at Ohio Media Watch and put their $0.02 in on the TWC HD channel situation. I posted a lengthy comment about how there is bandwidth OBVIOUSLY available since THREE channels were added for the Olympics and there's no excuse to NOT have USA, F/X and Scifi in HD, since there is some bandwidth available on all of the NE Ohio systems.

If you want to see these channels, post your input and demand we get them!

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13975530&postID=6464154457754570978


And look Inundated, I did it without "strong language" and tons of Emoticons!!! ;);)

I took a look and got as far as "Post Deleted" and thought, "that must be nickdawg - but then I saw right under that your post.:D

Nice argurment nickdawg. Kudos.

I sent the OMW guy an email thanking him for posting that, he responded by saying thank the guy who gave him the long response. He also asked me what channels I be interested in seeing, so I told him FX, USA, SciFi, and SPIKE.

According to OHio Media Watch, WMFD-TV Channel 68 in Mansfield, Ohio has been added on Dish Network's Cleveland area lineup-Using it's digital channel 12..

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/01/snowy-update.html

Scroll down, or read down to the last article..

I did a quick check of the analog channels, what I found:

OK, let's take this apart:


*78, 79 and 96 are no longer on at all.


Presumably, then, no bandwidth is being wasted...whether it is available to reclaim, I couldn't tell you.


*47 is showing color bars


A waste of bandwidth, as those take up the space on analog just as much as if it was a fully-programmed channel.


*66 is showing the "this channel moved" slide, even though VERSUS moved back in October


As above. (Assuming, in both cases, you aren't seeing a QAM channel squeezed down into your digital box at that channel position...I suppose you could only know if you looked on an analog cable hookup.)


*16 and 99 are showing "TV Guide channel". Since there is no virtual channel mapping on NTSC, TV guide channel exists on TWO physical channels!!


Does 16 do anything else? I know a lot of the access channels put up TV Guide Network when there is no local access programming.


*75 is Jewelry Television. Is it necessary to have this channel on analog tier?


Here we start getting into murky waters.

I personally would not mind seeing Jewelry Television and all the shopping channels jettisoned high into the digital numbers where I never see them. (There is actually a neighborhood up there for them.)

But neither of us knows what kind of contract TWC has with any of the shopping channels. They well could be getting a cut of sales from their viewers. The contract may even specify analog placement.


*MTV2 and VH1 Classic are on 34 and 68 respectively. Is there any justifiable reason to have this many flavors of MTV/VH1 on the analog tier? And these are recent additions. They weren't there until recently. There is NO reason to add to analog channels.


I'd agree with you, but we don't know how the contract with MTVNetworks is set up. They may require analog carriage of the lesser flavors of MTV and VH1.

There are folks who could argue that ESPN2 and other ESPN channels don't belong on analog, either.


Also, a look at "Suburban Cleveland 3" Lineup shows that there are three "Access" channels in the 20s range in addition to NEON on 23. So, eliminating those three "Access" channels and leaving just the NEON channel would mean that former Adelphia customers could get the same 6 HD channels TWC people would get.


You can play around with the access channels in your head all you want, but many are mandated by franchise agreements. And due to the way the system is likely set up, they have to mark aside the access channels within a segment of the system...even if they aren't actually being used, just so they can be elsewhere on that same leg of the TWC system.

(i.e., I believe Brecksville has an access channel, but we don't down here in the Akron half of the former Adelphia system, but they have to have the space for the Brecksville access channel set aside here because we otherwise have the same lineup/headend...that last part is just a guess.)

(And yes, I'm aware of the new statewide law, but I believe incumbent cable companies still have to figure some way to accomodate the previous franchise agreements in regard to so-called "PEG" - "Public, Educational, Government" - channels.)

So, getting to "6 new channels" is not as easy as you think it is.

Even so, it's quite possible that if they could launch a couple or three (or whatever) new HD channels, they're actually waiting until the SDV completion to add those AND whatever new channels they would be able to add with SDV's additional bandwidth.

If it's supposedly happening in the next 2-3 months or so, why trickle it out? Again, they have to advertise it, and it's a lot easier to advertise all of 'em at once then to mount a campaign for 2-3 channels in January and another 10 or 15 (or whatever) in March or April.

*78, 79 and 96 are no longer on at all.
Presumably, then, no bandwidth is being wasted...whether it is available to reclaim, I couldn't tell you.

Actually, all these channels are running the color bars and are wasting bandwidth. This is what I assume he was trying to get across.

Actually, all these channels are running the color bars and are wasting bandwidth. This is what I assume he was trying to get across.

Again, I'm on the old Adelphia system with a slightly different lineup. I assumed from his message that he wouldn't have separately mentioned 47 as having color bars, if the other ones he listed above had them as well.

Here in ex-Adelphia land, they dumped 15 entirely when they moved NEON to 23. If I try tuning to it with my analog-set-up Slingbox tuner, nothing shows up. That's what I thought he meant by "not at all".

Well, what do you know...they have color bars on analog 15 now!

This is a new development...15 was totally missing when they turned on 23 for NEON.

Well...assuming they aren't going to put anything on 15 analog, it's a waste either way. And they just scooted SCOLA up from 16 into digital cable land, and added (required/must carry) WDLI/17 on 16.

I've got a bit of a break down myself on how much bandwith analog, digital, and HD take. This is by size of recordings. 1 hour of analog 3.64 gb. 1 hour of digital about 1.50gb. HD uses the most space and it varies but it's around 5.30 to 7.05 gb per 1 hour show.

Those numbers there say alot. Analog takes over twice as much space as digital.

All that wasted bandwith.:mad:

Makes me want to join nickdawg's anti analog campaign.:)

According to OHio Media Watch, WMFD-TV Channel 68 in Mansfield, Ohio has been added on Dish Network's Cleveland area lineup-Using it's digital channel 12..

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/01/snowy-update.html

Scroll down, or read down to the last article..I've been waiting for WMFD to appear on my E* service for some time now. Now that I have it I want to drive down there and have a word with their engineer (I presume they only have a budget for one person and he's probably only part-time).

Their audio sounds like an overmodulated AM station. Since they are the first digital only independent station they need to start improving thier infrastructure. They look like an analog LPTV station who gets digitized at the transmitter (i.e. all analog up to the stick). They are like the first CD's from the 80's "AAD" :p.

I actually like one program they carry: "Tech Closeup".

For those of us clamoring for a true independent station in the Cleveland market, WMFD is it.

They are using their virtural ch 68 OTA and on DirecTV, but Dish chose to put them on their RF channel 12. In a way that is better exposure, seeing how somone will now have to scroll past WMFD on their way from WJW to WOIO.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-uplink-center/160533-uplink-activity-report-1-8-2009-4-12pm-3-changes.html

I've got a bit of a break down myself on how much bandwith analog, digital, and HD take. This is by size of recordings. 1 hour of analog 3.64 gb. 1 hour of digital about 1.50gb. HD uses the most space and it varies but it's around 5.30 to 7.05 gb per 1 hour show.

Those numbers there say alot. Analog takes over twice as much space as digital.

All that wasted bandwith.:mad:

Makes me want to join nickdawg's anti analog campaign.:)

The problem is that the mpeg2 encoders sitting in TW's headends are MUCH more specialized and can squeeze more quality in less bandwidth compared to the more commodity encoders in your Tivo. Add on the fact that the Tivo has to deal with analog noise where TW is getting a good digital signal to begin with from many of it's feeds to encode from.

That's why your analog recordings are using up so much more space. I saw the same situation as well way back on my SA8000 when there were still some analog channels that were not digitally simulcast. Those channels that had to be encoded by the set-top used much more space than some of the channels that were coming in digitally.

There's also U-verse, though I don't think they get out to Doylestown. I thought Doylestown had its own phone/cable company?



Yes, Doylestown Telephone was one of the first companies in Ohio to go all fiber optic. They own Bright.net and Ohio.net ISP's. Unfortunately, their cable company currently lags behind TWNEO and since I have a choice, I go with TW for cable. BTW, that competition makes TW prices lower in Doylestown than in Akron.

Are you some kind of spokesperson for WKBN-DT?? I sure wish I could get this signal, but I can't since I'm in the valley. Surprisingly, I don't have any issues receiving WOIO-DT though. My rabbit ears work just fine for that here in Akron.
No, but you have to admit they have a killer signal: WKBN Coverage Map (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html)

Have you tried an outdoor antenna aimed due east (or a litle bit north of due east from Akron)? They have enough power coupled with height to get a "grade A" signal from Cleveland to Pittsburgh. Now if only the Cleveland stations had such coverage nobody would be complaining! Stations like WOIO are leaning on the cable and satellite carriers to get their signal to the outer reaches of the Cleveland DMA. That's "stinkin' thinkin'"

Well, what do you know...they have color bars on analog 15 now!

This is a new development...15 was totally missing when they turned on 23 for NEON.

Well...assuming they aren't going to put anything on 15 analog, it's a waste either way. And they just scooted SCOLA up from 16 into digital cable land, and added (required/must carry) WDLI/17 on 16.

Yeah. That's exactly what we've been saying (GOD this just does not feel right agreeing with nickdawg. The hell that is northern ohio has frozen over. LOL ;) ). A number of these channels are still running some form of static analog video feed which is still wasting bandwidth. They would have been much better off leaving the channels intact so at least some CONTENT was there. This alone, disbarring the SDV situation and reasoning given on the ohiomedia blog, is one big beef I have with how they are running things in this area. That and the duplicated tv guide channels (which are NOT lumped in with the public access programming at least here. They run 24/7. All 3 of them.).

But all in all, I have at least some faith after the given explanation that once they can get SDV sorted out that we'll start seeing some actual progress. Given that they are trying to keep everything uniform across the whole NEO region, the mixture of hardware and programming and whatnot acquired from the Adelphia and Comcast areas were bound to bring things to a grinding halt and it's obviously gonna take some time to sort it all and make it all uniform. I just hoped they would have been a little more prompt about it up to this point is all.

As far as some of the arguments about the faux-HD channels, let me pose this scenario: As far as I can tell, the Sci-Fi channel has very few native HD programs. The biggest one so far is BSG. Now according to some of the arguments, TW should forego adding Sci-Fi HD till ALL of their programming is HD. Think that is right? I don't. Basically giving you HD channels of those with little HD programming is for future-proofing. As they begin to add more HD content, you can actually watch it rather than waiting till they go 100% HD. In essence, quityerbitchin! And be glad that you get ANY HD programming with the already anemic lineup here. :P

Y
As far as some of the arguments about the faux-HD channels, let me pose this scenario: As far as I can tell, the Sci-Fi channel has very few native HD programs. The biggest one so far is BSG. Now according to some of the arguments, TW should forego adding Sci-Fi HD till ALL of their programming is HD. Think that is right? I don't. Basically giving you HD channels of those with little HD programming is for future-proofing. As they begin to add more HD content, you can actually watch it rather than waiting till they go 100% HD. In essence, quityerbitchin! And be glad that you get ANY HD programming with the already anemic lineup here. :P

SciFi HD does have original programming, and I do believe that is in HD. That's all I watch is their original programming.

I'll be honest: If I could have just one other channel it would be FX. And I really don't care if they ever implement SDV.

SciFi HD does have original programming, and I do believe that is in HD. That's all I watch is their original programming.

Well, unfortunately I don't watch it all that much to care. But you do get my point (I hope). The people complaining about channels with either stretched or pillarboxed programming wanting them gone or replaced with other HD channels need to realise that some people DO watch those channels and offering the HD channels gives them room to grow and add more HD programming over time. Saying that they should wait until every last second of programming is in HD before they offer it is just assinine. We'd be waiting for years at that rate. Not to mention the fact that the content providers would see even less incentive to add HD programming if that came to pass.

To answer those earlier questions:

78, 79, 96 are completely off. There's just "fuzz" on the screen.

16 is TV Guide channel only. Our equivalent of the "Access" channel is 15, which shows Akron Public School info during the day and the down time is filled with cheezy "local" programming or a simulcast of one Music Choice channel.

99 is also TV Guide channel only.

66 is "Versus has moved..." PP slide. It can only be seen w/o a box, so it has to be pure analog. So they're wasting bandwidth to let people without a box know they need a box for this channel, which moved in late October.

47 has been color bars only w/o a box since at least March(around channel change time).

As far as MTV2/VH1 CL all I can think is since other areas used to have these channels in analog, TWC's "NE Ohio blanket system" as they like to call it now, is trying to offer similar lineups. I'm sure MTV Networks wouldn't mind if ALL systems moved MTV2/VH1 CL to digital only. TWC did move one of the country music stations off analog 47 to digital only.

And as far as adding new HD channels, I say why not add some in January or February? If they're truly serious about SDV, give your customers some incentive to stay. Even if it is only 4, 6 or 9 channels. That would still put us over 20 in terms of national cable HD channels. Better than the current 14. It's embarrassing!!!

What they should do is add a few popular ones with lots of HD like USA, F/X and SPIKE TV. Add those channels and advertise it as "the first of many more new HD channels coming soon". Give us some reason to stay with your company. Just give us SOMETHING SOON!!! That was the message in my comment at OMW.

Well, unfortunately I don't watch it all that much to care. But you do get my point (I hope). The people complaining about channels with either stretched or pillarboxed programming wanting them gone or replaced with other HD channels need to realise that some people DO watch those channels and offering the HD channels gives them room to grow and add more HD programming over time. Saying that they should wait until every last second of programming is in HD before they offer it is just assinine. We'd be waiting for years at that rate. Not to mention the fact that the content providers would see even less incentive to add HD programming if that came to pass.

Nope, I don't get your point. Well, actually I understand what you are saying but I disagree.;)

Here's my point: I don't want to have a channel that has nothing but HD if it's something I'm not going to watch. I hear people complain about TNT. Well, I watch TNTHD a good deal and I only watch shows that are in HD and are original programming. Do I watch it as much as the networks? No.

SciFi has shows like Eureka on it that I would love to see in HD with Dolby 5.1. Let's take A&E for another example. Now I do watch one or two shows on that channel but I think it's a waste of HD space. Why? Because they do not offer Dolby 5.1, and for those of us who invested in a sound system that's a big deal.

History Channel I watch sometimes. Food Network, never. Home & Garden never.

I'm not going to watch something just because it's in HD. It's got to be something that I consider quality as well.

Nope, I don't get your point. Well, actually I understand what you are saying but I disagree.;)

Here's my point: I don't want to have a channel that has nothing but HD if it's something I'm not going to watch. I hear people complain about TNT. Well, I watch TNTHD a good deal and I only watch shows that are in HD and are original programming. Do I watch it as much as the networks? No.

SciFi has shows like Eureka on it that I would love to see in HD with Dolby 5.1. Let's take A&E for another example. Now I do watch one or two shows on that channel but I think it's a waste of HD space. Why? Because they do not offer Dolby 5.1, and for those of us who invested in a sound system that's a big deal.

History Channel I watch sometimes. Food Network, never. Home & Garden never.

I'm not going to watch something just because it's in HD. It's got to be something that I consider quality as well.

And the whole point is that you are willing to shun these channels even though they have SOME legit HD programming instead of giving them a chance to make changes and upgrade and whatnot.

There are many reasons why a channel may not have 5.1 audio or actual HD copies of their shows when they were originally shot in HD. Doesn't mean it's all permanent. When it comes to cable networks, HD is still quite in it's infancy. For a number of stations it is still more a novelty-like deal. But give them time to upgrade equipment and bring on more HD content and it's all bound to change for the better. But if you shun them now for not having it all 100% this exact second, what incentive is there to make these changes?

And the whole point is that you are willing to shun these channels even though they have SOME legit HD programming instead of giving them a chance to make changes and upgrade and whatnot.

I don't think we are understanding each other. Exactly what channels are you talking about?

I don't have a problem with any HD channel, I'm just saying that right now since we can't have as many channels as Buffalo, NY, I'm giving my opinion on what I'd like to see. Of course, YMMV.

There are many reasons why a channel may not have 5.1 audio or actual HD copies of their shows when they were originally shot in HD. Doesn't mean it's all permanent. When it comes to cable networks, HD is still quite in it's infancy. For a number of stations it is still more a novelty-like deal. But give them time to upgrade equipment and bring on more HD content and it's all bound to change for the better. But if you shun them now for not having it all 100% this exact second, what incentive is there to make these changes?

Infancy? Hardly.

I remember the infancy, and I'm here to tell you it's come a long, long way baby.:cool: (That's the theme for an old Virginia Slims commercial):D

I've given them plenty of time. I had HD for 3 years now, how about you? Isn't that long enough? I've seen them going from downtime for hours to consistent quality HD. I want Dolby 5.1, and if I don't get it, I don't like it.

What I'm saying is that if A&E was going to get Dolby 5.1 they would have done so by now. I'll bet you 500 cyber bucks you won't see Dolby 5.1 on A&E for years to come.

Nope, I don't get your point. Well, actually I understand what you are saying but I disagree.;)

Here's my point: I don't want to have a channel that has nothing but HD if it's something I'm not going to watch. I hear people complain about TNT. Well, I watch TNTHD a good deal and I only watch shows that are in HD and are original programming. Do I watch it as much as the networks? No.

SciFi has shows like Eureka on it that I would love to see in HD with Dolby 5.1. Let's take A&E for another example. Now I do watch one or two shows on that channel but I think it's a waste of HD space. Why? Because they do not offer Dolby 5.1, and for those of us who invested in a sound system that's a big deal.

History Channel I watch sometimes. Food Network, never. Home & Garden never.

I'm not going to watch something just because it's in HD. It's got to be something that I consider quality as well.

I almost completely agree. I hate TNT, but I'd keep it for the NBA and your shows ;). I'd like it better if they'd show HD shows in HD. Bones on TNT HD is 100% stretch, even though it has been HD from the start. Also, many of the older episodes of Charmed are HD. C'mon TNT, I want hot witches in HD!!!!

TBS can be nuked to hell!!! Along with Jeff Foxworthy and the rest of their garbage original programming. I only watch one show on TBS, Married With Children, and I ALWAYS record it on TBS SD.

A&E and History are crap. 2.0 audio and stretching. I cannot stand History stretching new letterbox programmming. I don't even record on History HD anymore after being burned on too many stretched shows. I don't even watch A&E, other than the occasional CSI: Miami. But I don't need that in HD.

HGTV, I never even watched that in SD. Total waste.

I do watch Food HD, Giada in HD is a must!:cool::D:D Food has more HD programming than HGTV, so it's not a total waste.

Discovery HDT = TOTAL F**KING WASTE!!! I don't want to have a channel that has nothing but HD if it's something I'm not going to watch. Exactly. I really wish this channel would go away and be replaced by a simulcast of the main Discovery channel. I hate these "HD only" channels that show a loop of the same stupid shows. I want to see Dirty Jobs and Mythbusters. DJ is never on this channel and I think Mythbusters was on early in the morning once. This channel is equivalent to the stuff they show on all the TVs at Best Buy so "the screen is filled" all the time and it's bright and flashy.

On the other hand, USA is almost all HD, except for "Wings", early episodes of "Becker", some "L&O" and paid programming at night. All the new shows are HD, NCIS is HD, House is HD, L&O both flavors is HD, Burn Notice, Psych, Monk, In Plain Sight, The Starter Wife = HD, HD, HD, HD and HD! Movies are HD.

Same goes with F/X. All new dramas, except for "The Shield" are HD. "Malcolm in the Middle" is HD. Only the older sitcoms(Spin City, KOTH, That 70s Show) are not HD along with paid programming. Most of the movies are HD and even OAR too!! Plus, USA and F/X do not stretch SD programming.

I don't think we are understanding each other. Exactly what channels are you talking about?

I don't have a problem with any HD channel, I'm just saying that right now since we can't have as many channels as Buffalo, NY, I'm giving my opinion on what I'd like to see. Of course, YMMV.
Sorry. I got caught up in my initial beef which was those who are saying that the likes of TBS, TNT, and A&E should be completely eliminiated in favor of other channels just because they don't have 100% round the clock HD programming.

Infancy? Hardly.

I remember the infancy, and I'm here to tell you it's come a long, long way baby.:cool: (That's the theme for an old Virginia Slims commercial):D

I've given them plenty of time. I had HD for 3 years now, how about you? Isn't that long enough? I've seen them going from downtime for hours to consistent quality HD. I want Dolby 5.1, and if I don't get it, I don't like it.

What I'm saying is that if A&E was going to get Dolby 5.1 they would have done so by now. I'll bet you 500 cyber bucks you won't see Dolby 5.1 on A&E for years to come.

Which channels are you talking about? Surely quite a handful haven't been around 3+ years. And as far as the A&E situation is concerned: How much of their programming, original or not, actually have 5.1 audio to begin with? I'm genuinely curious because as far as I have seen over the years (of course, I don't have a 5.1 system to verify for 100% certain), outside of movies and some fairly recent big rating primetime programming, Dolby 5.1 is fairly rare. As well, unless I am mistaken it is quite another matter to switch the audio from, say, 2.0 PCM to Dolby 5.1 mid-stream and play nice with consumer audio equipment so they either have to go 2.0 all the time or upconvert 2.0 audio to 5.1 before it's distributed (once again, not sure about this one. Someone more techy please correct me on this one).

And the whole point is that you are willing to shun these channels even though they have SOME legit HD programming instead of giving them a chance to make changes and upgrade and whatnot.

There are many reasons why a channel may not have 5.1 audio or actual HD copies of their shows when they were originally shot in HD. Doesn't mean it's all permanent. When it comes to cable networks, HD is still quite in it's infancy. For a number of stations it is still more a novelty-like deal. But give them time to upgrade equipment and bring on more HD content and it's all bound to change for the better. But if you shun them now for not having it all 100% this exact second, what incentive is there to make these changes?

I think the point is since we are currently limited, TWC should be interested in providing "the best quality with mass appeal". Carrying TBS in 2007 after MLB when it was stretched 24/7 was disgusting. They wasted limited bandwidth on a crap channel. Carrying Big Ten HD right now is a mistake. Any game that has appeal in Ohio could be carried on the HD bonus channel. There's no need to show a channel 24/7 in HD when they're showing OLD games in SD with patterned sidebars:mad::mad:. It's bull.

HGTV? In HD? Are they kidding? How much interest is there in that channel? Much of the programming is stretched anyway. Plus, the ratings are nowhere near USA "Cable's #1 Network". Another TWC boner carrying that channel.

History and A&E, if this were a bandwidth unlimited system, they'd be OK. But since we're limited, there's no room for shoddy channels with no 5.1 and stretched pictures. USA, F/X and Spike TV are all OAR on non HD content.

Thing is though that these channels all have SOME true HD content however limited it may be which is the TRUE point of HD channels (You can get 5.1 audio with the SD digital channels on a technical basis. Doesn't require an HD set or box). And we don't know what the business/logistics reasons were for choosing these channels over others. Maybe TWCNEO was just offered more money by TBS, TNT, etal than say USA or FX and they decided to take those in their limited slots? Who knows. Beggars can't be choosers especially around these parts. Like I said, these channels show at least some true HD content however limited it might be. And for stuff like movies on TNT and TBS, it may not always be OAR, but you can hardly tell unless you are real anal about it and the actual PQ barring aspect ratio issues always seems to come out top notch even on real old movies.

Heck, we have STO in HD which still seems to run quite a bit of SD programming and does mostly Browns and Indians events at that and I haven't seen anyone complain about that one being around yet. :p

Thing is though that these channels all have SOME true HD content however limited it may be which is the TRUE point of HD channels (You can get 5.1 audio with the SD digital channels on a technical basis. Doesn't require an HD set or box). And we don't know what the business/logistics reasons were for choosing these channels over others. Maybe TWCNEO was just offered more money by TBS, TNT, etal than say USA or FX and they decided to take those in their limited slots? Who knows. Beggars can't be choosers especially around these parts. Like I said, these channels show at least some true HD content however limited it might be. And for stuff like movies on TNT and TBS, it may not always be OAR, but you can hardly tell unless you are real anal about it and the actual PQ barring aspect ratio issues always seems to come out top notch even on real old movies.

Heck, we have STO in HD which still seems to run quite a bit of SD programming and does mostly Browns and Indians events at that and I haven't seen anyone complain about that one being around yet. :p

A&E doesn't have 5.1 at all. And you're right technically they should be able to do Dolby 5.1 on SD....but they don't.

As far as money goes, I have no idea how it works but FX and USA are in HD on other TW systems. I would (yes, I know) assume that all of TW should be part of that, but who the heck knows?

Not trying to extend my post count here, honestly but isn't the true point that if TWC wanted to, right now, they still could add HD channels. They are not maxed out on bandwith and I'm not saying they should be but come on, throw us a bone with a little meat on it. Like FX!

A&E doesn't have 5.1 at all. And you're right technically they should be able to do Dolby 5.1 on SD....but they don't.

As far as money goes, I have no idea how it works but FX and USA are in HD on other TW systems. I would (yes, I know) assume that all of TW should be part of that, but who the heck knows?

USA HD is 5.1. AFAIK, so is F/X and most other HD channels. History/A&E are unique in NEVER offering any 5.1 audio. And I know their new shows could be. CSI Miami is 5.1.

Not trying to extend my post count here, honestly but isn't the true point that if TWC wanted to, right now, they still could add HD channels. They are not maxed out on bandwith and I'm not saying they should be but come on, throw us a bone with a little meat on it. Like FX!

Exactly!! They could. But as much as they pretend to care, they don't. I'm in shock that OMW was able to get that much out of TWC!

I am very happy with the service and offerings that I receive with TWC. The number of HD channels available
currently are fine. I am willing to wait patiently for the upgrade. Moreover, the analog channels and SD channels that currently exist are more than adequate.

Who the hell posted this tripe on OMW? Someone trying to make Hookbill look bad? The poster's name is "hookworm".

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13975530&postID=6464154457754570978

Not trying to extend my post count here, honestly but isn't the true point that if TWC wanted to, right now, they still could add HD channels. They are not maxed out on bandwith and I'm not saying they should be but come on, throw us a bone with a little meat on it. Like FX!

It would appear that they could throw on one or two channels (my guess) before SDV, but there could be other reasons stopping that - that we don't know about.

My guess is still marketing.

Who the hell posted this tripe on OMW? Someone trying to make Hookbill look bad? The poster's name is "hookworm".

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13975530&postID=6464154457754570978

Take a look again.;)

Not to be a TWC kiss-ass here (believe me, I want more HD channels just as bad as you all do), but who knows why they aren't adding more HD channels? We honestly do not know because Mr. Fry and co never tell us exactly WHY.

~Maybe they are indeed in a bandwidth crunch and silently cut back on HSI/Phone channels during the olympics to fit in USA, FX, etc.?
~Marketing could also be another reason and they are waiting till SDV comes around so they can advertise TONS of added HD channels instead of just a small handful every couple months.

We don't know the real story. But with the posting on OMW, I' slowly starting to lean towards there being a fully legitimate reason behind this and the whole Adelphia/Comcast mess is what is holding it all back currently which is to be expected.

I don't think many realise that the old adage of 'You can't please everyone all of the time' very much comes into play here. I'm not infallible, I miss this myself too sometimes. TWCNEO could leave the legacy/comcast/adelphia areas separated with different lineups, different channel offerings, different set-tops, different firmwares, etc.. Some of us would be happy, many of us wouldn't. It's all a roll of the dice. The brains behind all this at TWCNEO probably just took the most logical and cleanest solution possible when they decided to lump the different headends together and try to make every area identical.

Take a look again.;)

(Cheers & Applause):D:D:D:D:D

Vchat said it much better than I did, so I'll point to his last message and say "what he said", and await the new channels whenever they do show up. :D

Who the hell posted this tripe on OMW? Someone trying to make Hookbill look bad? The poster's name is "hookworm".

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13975530&postID=6464154457754570978

HA! :D:D

The only thing missing from that post (and I suspect the real author is Mrs. Jasso) is: ".....in fact, I feel I am way undercharged for such wonderful services so I'm sending an extra $10 a month when paying my TWC bill..."

USA HD is 5.1. AFAIK, so is F/X and most other HD channels. History/A&E are unique in NEVER offering any 5.1 audio. And I know their new shows could be. CSI Miami is 5.1.


I didn't know History HD was not in Dolby 5.1 because I only watch it in the bedroom where there is not Dolby 5.1.

HA! :D:D

The only thing missing from that post (and I suspect the real author is Mrs. Jasso) is: ".....in fact, I feel I am way undercharged for such wonderful services so I'm sending an extra $10 a month when paying my TWC bill..."

Interesting that the name they took was hookworm. That's kind of what TW does, they are fishing for answers to their HD problems.:D

Some birds (not parrots) eat worms. Upon seeing that I had to post to clear my "good" name.:D:D

Interesting that the name they took was hookworm. That's kind of what TW does, they are fishing for answers to their HD problems.:D

Some birds (not parrots) eat worms. Upon seeing that I had to post to clear my "good" name.:D:D

Maybe they know you are the one who plays the "Fry Card" all the time and want to get back? Sleazy, dirty, underhanded? Remind you of anyone?

TWC of course!!:D:D

I'm with this guy! There's some good points in there about how Feb. 17 is the one that's been advertised, and will probably actually confuse more people. Also the scheduling engineers comment. Come on, we want WKYC on a higher channel soon ;)

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090111/ap_on_hi_te/tec_gadget_show_dtv_transition

I'm with this guy! There's some good points in there about how Feb. 17 is the one that's been advertised, and will probably actually confuse more people. Also the scheduling engineers comment. Come on, we want WKYC on a higher channel soon ;)

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090111/ap_on_hi_te/tec_gadget_show_dtv_transition

Yeah, how hard can it be to remove the expiration? I say go for it!:)

For once in his career, Kevin Martin is right about something!

I remember an old saying about stopped clocks...

- Trip

I emailed the TWC guy Bill Jasso quoted in the OMW blog at <bill.jasso@twcable.com> about what HD channels I want: SciFi, Weather, PBS 45/49, (& BBC World in SD). He replied within an hour saying he appreciated my input, so here's your chance everyone.

I also moaned to him and posted to the OMW blog about the huge analog channel bandwidth waste. While 1 analog channel can carry 1-2 HD channels, it could carry as much as 5-8 SD digital channels. So they could crunch those 60+ analog channels into maybe 10 multiplexes of digital, give everyone a much better SD picture, and free up room for another 50 HD channels ! And still leave 20-odd Basic Analog channels for the Joe sixpacks locked into the 1980s...

No SDV needed, either. And channel/multiplex bandwidth allocation is dynamic - when the content on a digital channel is not full HD, it doesn't have to use the full capacity, there's room for other channels on that multiplex.

They've been doing this most other places for a decade now - why is it so hard for TWC NEO to do this math ?

I emailed the TWC guy Bill Jasso quoted in the OMW blog at <bill.jasso@twcable.com> about what HD channels I want: SciFi, Weather, PBS 45/49, (& BBC World in SD). He replied within an hour saying he appreciated my input, so here's your chance everyone.

I also moaned to him and posted to the OMW blog about the huge analog channel bandwidth waste. While 1 analog channel can carry 1-2 HD channels, it could carry as much as 5-8 SD digital channels. So they could crunch those 60+ analog channels into maybe 10 multiplexes of digital, give everyone a much better SD picture, and free up room for another 50 HD channels ! And still leave 20-odd Basic Analog channels for the Joe sixpacks locked into the 1980s...

No SDV needed, either. And channel/multiplex bandwidth allocation is dynamic - when the content on a digital channel is not full HD, it doesn't have to use the full capacity, there's room for other channels on that multiplex.

They've been doing this most other places for a decade now - why is it so hard for TWC NEO to do this math ?

What did he say? Any more info or was it just the generic form response?

He just thanked me for my input, and said they'd get the technical work done as quickly as they could.

I don't have high hopes, but at least he's making the effort to be seen to be listening.

Smoti, I think you're a bit optimistic about TWC abandoning all but a few analog channels, at least now. There's still a market for the analog service, though it's diminishing by the day.

My gut feeling is that within a year of whenever they manage to do the digital OTA transition, this sort of thing will start happening en masse. It's already been posted that the Clear Picture/Massillon Cable systems will be going 100% digital with cheap analog-to-digital converters for the low-end customers...I haven't checked recently, but I think they were trying to time that with the OTA transition.

Is anyone notice on TW watching HD Channels, ie Golden Globes, 24 that there are slight pauses with a stop in video and momentary no sound, then the program keeps going when watching live tv? Can't figure out why this is happening.

Is anyone notice on TW watching HD Channels, ie Golden Globes, 24 that there are slight pauses with a stop in video and momentary no sound, then the program keeps going when watching live tv? Can't figure out why this is happening.

Watching via QAM and haven't seen any pauses

I wonder if that means my Motorola 6412 is going bad or if it is a problem with our local cable lines. I live in Amherst, OH.

Watching via QAM and haven't seen any pauses

I have little to no optimism they'll get around to making sensible use of their analog spectrum anytime soon, just venting. I just hope that when they get around to offering more HD channels on their vaunted SDV platform they'll pay attention to which ones I want, because you can guarantee we won't get them all...

Keith

I have little to no optimism they'll get around to making sensible use of their analog spectrum anytime soon, just venting. I just hope that when they get around to offering more HD channels on their vaunted SDV platform they'll pay attention to which ones I want, because you can guarantee we won't get them all...

Keith


That's the big question in my book. I have maybe 3 additional HD channels I'm interested in, and quite honestly most of what they offer now I don't watch (like TBS).

But what I like and what you like - that's the issue. As I know from experience on this thread one man's garbage is another man's pie.

That's the big question in my book. I have maybe 3 additional HD channels I'm interested in, and quite honestly most of what they offer now I don't watch (like TBS).

But what I like and what you like - that's the issue. As I know from experience on this thread one man's garbage is another man's pie.

Add Discovery HDT to that list with TBS. I swear all they show on that channel are f**king CAR SHOWS!!! The same damn car shows on a loop. Isn't that why we have a Speed channel? I've been hoping those HD "niche" channels would go away soon. Mojo HD already bit the dust, let HDT be next. I actually like Universal HD now that it is like a "USA 2" channel showing Monk, Psych and Burn Notice.

Oh, and about Monk and Psych, I found them from USA HD thanks to my friend BT. No more analog windowboxed USA SD here anymore!!! Eat it, Time Warner!!! :p:p:p:p

I wonder if that means my Motorola 6412 is going bad or if it is a problem with our local cable lines. I live in Amherst, OH.

Greg FWIW, I didn't see any pauses and I'm in Amherst TWP and was watching Mr. Bauer kicking butt:)

Greg FWIW, I didn't see any pauses and I'm in Amherst TWP and was watching Mr. Bauer kicking butt:)

Maybe we should tell ol' Jack that if TWC isn't providing 50+ HD channels in the next 24 hours, something seriously bad will happen. Yea, that will do the job... :)

(Side note: Sunday's episode was good, but Monday's was...well...really cool. Groups of possible scenarios bouncing around in my head.)

Maybe we should tell ol' Jack that if TWC isn't providing 50+ HD channels in the next 24 hours, something seriously bad will happen. Yea, that will do the job... :)

(Side note: Sunday's episode was good, but Monday's was...well...really cool. Groups of possible scenarios bouncing around in my head.)

Hey...no discussing shows around here. I got as far as Sunday's was good.

I probably won't get to it for a few weeks!

Of course mnowlin you probably recorded it on the TiVo - and FWIW those moto boxes are part of the problem. Eventually they will have to replace those for SDV.

Thanks, luckily it went away last night. I did not like watching Jack being paused every time he said or did something important Sunday night. :) What a great show. Wish it was on every night!

Greg FWIW, I didn't see any pauses and I'm in Amherst TWP and was watching Mr. Bauer kicking butt:)

Thanks, luckily it went away last night. I did not like watching Jack being paused every time he said or did something important Sunday night. :) What a great show. Wish it was on every night!
I recorded Sunday's 2-hrs on my 8300 and it played back fine, even when the recording of last night's 2-hrs started. In fact, I watched all 4 hours last night before CSI Miami and have concluded that's the only way to watch it!

I recorded Sunday's 2-hrs on my 8300 and it played back fine, even when the recording of last night's 2-hrs started. In fact, I watched all 4 hours last night before CSI Miami and have concluded that's the only way to watch it!

SARA or Navigator?

Hookbill: if the motorola boxes are part of the problem, can I exchange mine at TW for a different HD/DVR box that might be better or do I have to wait.


Hey...no discussing shows around here. I got as far as Sunday's was good.

I probably won't get to it for a few weeks!

Of course mnowlin you probably recorded it on the TiVo - and FWIW those moto boxes are part of the problem. Eventually they will have to replace those for SDV.

Hey...no discussing shows around here. I got as far as Sunday's was good.

I probably won't get to it for a few weeks!

And I probably won't see it until I get it from BT. I deleted it last night:o. I turned it on to see the obnoxious FOX bug, and when I stopped it I deleted it. :o:o:o:o

Of course mnowlin you probably recorded it on the TiVo - and FWIW those moto boxes are part of the problem. Eventually they will have to replace those for SDV.

Motorola boxes? I hope they makes those swim with the fishes, just like the Pioneer boxes! :p:p :D:D

Not necessarily. Navigator is a cross-platform software. It's currently running here on both old Pioneer and SA boxes. And the Motorola boxes can run multiple software too. Either whatever firmware Motorola uses or Passport DCT(which is another reason why TWC is f**king stoopid for dumping Passport:mad:)

As long as they can download Navigator to those Moto boxes, they shouldn't be a problem with SDV. Even the old Pioneer boxes can run SDV without problems.

Hookbill: if the motorola boxes are part of the problem, can I exchange mine at TW for a different HD/DVR box that might be better or do I have to wait.

Check with your local TWC office. It's a case of one area has one thing and another area another. Or whatever the office has in stock.

My guess would be they'll either have the same kind of boxes that are refurbished or new ones that would be SA 8300HD. I'm pretty sure TWC is exclusively buying SA boxes for new ones(for consistency across the entire system).

SARA or Navigator?
SARA. I'm in Solon on the same system you're on. No Navigator here yet!
My daughter has Navigator on an 8300SD in northern NY (off the Syracuse system) and it seems to rock. They must have SDV, because they have the full monte of HD lineup. In using it over Christmas, it seems to behave identically to SARA, just a few more features.

Hollywood Reporter, Jan 13, 2009, 12:20 PM ET
TCA -- This will be the final season of "Prison Break."

Fox will shift the show to Fridays this spring for its final run of episodes, taking over for "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" once the sci-fi drama finishes its run.

SARA. I'm in Solon on the same system you're on. No Navigator here yet!
My daughter has Navigator on an 8300SD in northern NY (off the Syracuse system) and it seems to rock. They must have SDV, because they have the full monte of HD lineup. In using it over Christmas, it seems to behave identically to SARA, just a few more features.

It f**king sucks monkey balls!!! At least the OCAP version does.

I recently got one of those HDC boxes for the bedroom. And I'm thankful that it is only in the bedroom. If I had to use that all the time on the main TV, I'd have a f**king fit!! It's slow as hell, the supposedly older 8300HD (no C) runs circles around that new box(that's supposed to have more RAM). The graphics are fugly, the channel banner is larger than a news lower third, but the font is normal size.

Trust me, you're lucky you have SARA. Once they deploy Navigator in other areas this year, you'll be remembering the days of SARA as "the good old days". I've never even seen it in person, and I'd rather have it instead of Navigator. Nothing(other than the Directv interface) could possibly suck more!! :D

Hookbill: if the motorola boxes are part of the problem, can I exchange mine at TW for a different HD/DVR box that might be better or do I have to wait.

Yes, you can. Just tell them it's not working right. They will give you a new box.

SARA. I'm in Solon on the same system you're on. No Navigator here yet!
My daughter has Navigator on an 8300SD in northern NY (off the Syracuse system) and it seems to rock. They must have SDV, because they have the full monte of HD lineup. In using it over Christmas, it seems to behave identically to SARA, just a few more features.

I think there is a problem with changing SARA to Navigator. I don't have anything to support this other then the fact that I have heard of only two people say they have seen SARA change to Navigator anywhere. Only one of them I would consider credible, and he contributes to this thread however I am doubtful that he's right.

Despite what you may think or what nickdawg say's it's my experience and from what I've read in other threads that SARA is not a good software. I've read comments by people who write software on how poor it is. Navigator is worst.

If you want a good DVR that will work with both SDV and TW, there is only one that I can recommend.;)

If you want a good DVR that will work with both SDV and TW, there is only one that I can recommend.;)

Don't say it!!:p:p:p

And "that one" will not entirely work with TWC. VOD, PPV, Interactive TV, Start Over and any other new feature unleashed by TWC in their firmware won't work with tivo.

Also, SARA can be converted to Navigator. In that article, Mr. Jasso said Start Over will be added in NE Ohio once SDV is done. Start Over is part of the Navigator software, it was listed as one of the "Coming Soon" features in the Navigator literature.

Don't say it!!:p:p:p

And "that one" will not entirely work with TWC. VOD, PPV, Interactive TV, Start Over and any other new feature unleashed by TWC in their firmware won't work with tivo.

Also, SARA can be converted to Navigator. In that article, Mr. Jasso said Start Over will be added in NE Ohio once SDV is done. Start Over is part of the Navigator software, it was listed as one of the "Coming Soon" features in the Navigator literature.

Per usual, you are wrong again.

You can order pay per view by phone. You are correct that there is no "on demand" however there is Netflix, Amazon Video On Demand, U Tube, Kids Zone, Rhapsody, Cinema Now (Disney), Nero Liquid TV, Jomon, and Photobucket Pecasa. You can also transfer recordings to your PC if you have a wireless network, or to another TiVo. And there is a whole lot more, like wishlist where you can either set up for an actor, a title, a producer, a director. I could go on but I'll stop there.:p:p

Honestly, Navigator isn't all THAT bad. It might not be as feature complete as the 'Holy Grail' that is Passport, but it's getting there and the interface is clean and useable. And last I remember reading they were beta testing a newer revision out somewhere in Arizona that has the color scheme changed to be much easier on the eyes.

The BIGGEST problem that not only TW but Scientific Atlanta has dug themselves into as well is trying to shoehorn the OCAP edition of Navigator and the OCAP base, which is essentially just an embedded Java virtual machine, onto these HDC boxes that have much less cpu power and ram than their native code counterparts and it really shows. I've witnessed the Native non-OCAP version of Navigator/Mystro on everything from the old SA8000 to the 8000HD and the 8300. All are extremely responsive and just fly. Add in the added eye-candy perk of fade-in/out on each menu and even a subtle volume crossfade on channel changes.

The Tivo is an awesome DVR, don't get me wrong. The thing though is it has an up front couple hundred dollar pricetag on top of the subscription fee. And you don't get the advantage of being able to swap it out without having to pay an arm and a leg in case it croaks.

Mind you if the Tivo became a bit more affordable and a lifetime subscription came down, I'd be all over it in a heartbeat. Since TW has cut down on their PPV offerings, not much premium non-VOD content can be recorded and for the VOD stuff I can get away with a basic set-top with no DVR functionality. But as of right now, TW's own offerings have more bang for the buck when you consider the 'insurance policy' involved.

The BIGGEST problem that not only TW but Scientific Atlanta has dug themselves into as well is trying to shoehorn the OCAP edition of Navigator and the OCAP base, which is essentially just an embedded Java virtual machine, onto these HDC boxes that have much less cpu power and ram than their native code counterparts and it really shows. I've witnessed the Native non-OCAP version of Navigator/Mystro on everything from the old SA8000 to the 8000HD and the 8300. All are extremely responsive and just fly. Add in the added eye-candy perk of fade-in/out on each menu and even a subtle volume crossfade on channel changes.



That's the thing I never can understand, why is the Navigator on non OCAP boxes decent but the version on the OCAP boxes is crap? Is it honestly that hard to change the appearance? I highly doubt the fading menus and non-obnoxiously large channel banner are in any way related to OCAP. If they would:
*reduce the size of the channel banner
*increase UI speed/respone
*maybe add fade effects

Then at least it would be tolerable. But what they currently offer on the OCAP boxes is beyond pathetic. It looks like a not ready for primetime(what am I saying, NOT READY FOR A BETA TEST) product.

And unfortunately the "good"(I threw up a little in my mouth saying that;)) Navigator is vanishing, as OCAP boxes are becoming the minority.

Did I mention, I HATE OCAP!!!! F*** OCAP!!

The people who developed/invented OCAP need to be sent to something worse than Gitmo. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I feel better now! :D

And last I remember reading they were beta testing a newer revision out somewhere in Arizona that has the color scheme changed to be much easier on the eyes.

They're beta-testing a color change? That says a lot about the software's stability... :)

I think back to really old versions of Windows that made you reboot after a desktop background change...

They're beta-testing a color change? That says a lot about the software's stability... :)

I think back to really old versions of Windows that made you reboot after a desktop background change...

Wow, that's what I really wanted! :rolleyes:

I hope they'll have a color scheme that is plain default yellow and pink like the original bare bones version of Passport, none of this shiny, 3D gradient crap they have now. I despise these shiny, flashy UIs that Navigator has---such a hog, like Vista. And I guess that makes tivo a Mac, with the flashy, slick UI! :D

They're beta-testing a color change? That says a lot about the software's stability... :)

I think back to really old versions of Windows that made you reboot after a desktop background change...

Actually, it has a lot of other feature additions/changes and stability improvements/bugfixes. The color scheme change though I pointed out since a lot of people here seem to be really turned off by the current one. I'm not 100% sure if it's JUST the color that's changed or if significant changes to the UI are done like downsizing the info bar and whatnot.

edit: This is the link I got btw with some screenshots of the new interface: http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7095.html?1227215351

Actually, it has a lot of other feature additions/changes and stability improvements/bugfixes.

Hehe - I figured there was more to it than just a color change. Had to poke some fun at what you said, though..

Honestly, Navigator isn't all THAT bad. It might not be as feature complete as the 'Holy Grail' that is Passport, but it's getting there and the interface is clean and useable. And last I remember reading they were beta testing a newer revision out somewhere in Arizona that has the color scheme changed to be much easier on the eyes.

The BIGGEST problem that not only TW but Scientific Atlanta has dug themselves into as well is trying to shoehorn the OCAP edition of Navigator and the OCAP base, which is essentially just an embedded Java virtual machine, onto these HDC boxes that have much less cpu power and ram than their native code counterparts and it really shows. I've witnessed the Native non-OCAP version of Navigator/Mystro on everything from the old SA8000 to the 8000HD and the 8300. All are extremely responsive and just fly. Add in the added eye-candy perk of fade-in/out on each menu and even a subtle volume crossfade on channel changes.

The Tivo is an awesome DVR, don't get me wrong. The thing though is it has an up front couple hundred dollar pricetag on top of the subscription fee. And you don't get the advantage of being able to swap it out without having to pay an arm and a leg in case it croaks.

Mind you if the Tivo became a bit more affordable and a lifetime subscription came down, I'd be all over it in a heartbeat. Since TW has cut down on their PPV offerings, not much premium non-VOD content can be recorded and for the VOD stuff I can get away with a basic set-top with no DVR functionality. But as of right now, TW's own offerings have more bang for the buck when you consider the 'insurance policy' involved.

Well said.

You are absolutely right. TiVo's cost can be tremendous but it has been my experience that if you take care of it by using proper ventilation and such you should not have to replace it for years.

To be on the safe side, I got a 3 year warranty on both of my TiVo's from Circuit City. I have not had to use it.

Yes, it cost much more. You have to be willing to put out money for a better product. It's like a car, certainly you wouldn't compare a Chevy with a BMW. Yet there may be somethings about that Chevy that the BMW does not do (like on demand):).

Actually I'd say if you have no problems with your DVR then unless you want to be extravagant there is no reason to get a TiVo. All those features I mention, the only one I use is Wishlist and Amazon. While I'm on the subject of Amazon, it's a great way to legally purchase a network television show without using BT.

As I have documented many times in the past, I could have lived with SARA and the SA 8300 if it was reliable, but it's my experience that it is not and I went through 3 of them at different times in a 2 year period. Besides partial recordings and just not recording at all, there was the picture issue. I thought all HD programs had that warped look, I thought it was a broadcast issue!:o

And then there is the simple fact that if a program changes dates for a "special" or even moves permanently, SARA does not recognize a 3 way conflict. As a result it will not record anything. I say SARA because I'm not sure if any of the other two software had these problems.

Pleasr don't confuse that with initial programming. SARA can see a 3 way conflict upon adding another show - It's just that it fails if a show you have set to "record all" gets moved and you already have 2 shows on that time slot. I understand Passport allowed priority.

Pleasr don't confuse that with initial programming. SARA can see a 3 way conflict upon adding another show - It's just that it fails if a show you have set to "record all" gets moved and you already have 2 shows on that time slot. I understand Passport allowed priority.

I actually watched this happen on my SA8000HD box, and my mouth gaped when I realize that NONE of the three shows would record!

Same situation you describe...one of the three shows had a special airing in the time slot regularly occupied by the two other shows. A message popped up on screen informing me of the conflict, and no shows recorded at all. This is insanity.

I actually watched this happen on my SA8000HD box, and my mouth gaped when I realize that NONE of the three shows would record!

Same situation you describe...one of the three shows had a special airing in the time slot regularly occupied by the two other shows. A message popped up on screen informing me of the conflict, and no shows recorded at all. This is insanity.

You got a message? I never got one. Must be the newer firmware.

It happened to me on several occasions!

Still I would have put up with that if it just recorded like it was suppose to. I had to baby sit that thing all the time.

With TiVo it's set it and forget it. Maybe Passport and Navigator are different.

You got a message? I never got one. Must be the newer firmware.


I didn't say the message was all that helpful. :D I think it was actually just the standard conflict message, and I didn't find out that it decided to record not three, not two, or not even ONE program until later.

Yipes.

It's one reason I still do most of my recording on the SD TiVo. If there's something I really think will look great in HD, and can't be by the set live, I'll use it, but nothing "mission critical" is on the SA8000HD.

I didn't say the message was all that helpful. :D I think it was actually just the standard conflict message, and I didn't find out that it decided to record not three, not two, or not even ONE program until later.

Yipes.

It's one reason I still do most of my recording on the SD TiVo. If there's something I really think will look great in HD, and can't be by the set live, I'll use it, but nothing "mission critical" is on the SA8000HD.

Maybe I saw that. I don't remember.

Good stuff that SARA is huh?:D:D;)

what area is Mid Ohio ??

TWC-MidOhio HD Lineup (as of 01/14/09):

700 HBO HDTV (Premium)
701 Showtime HD (Premium)
702 Cinemax HD (Premium)
703 Starz HD (Premium)
704 WCMH HD (NBC)
706 WSYX HD (ABC)
707 WOSU HD (PBS)
708 WTTE HD (Fox)
710 WBNS HD (CBS)
713 WWHO HD (CW)
714 CNN HD
715 Fox News Channel HD
717 CNBC HD
722 ESPN News HD
723 ESPNU HD
725 MLB Network HD
740 Travel Channel HD
743 BIO HD
744 Bravo HD
747 FX HD
748 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
749 LifetimeMovieNet HD
750 HD Theater
751 TNT in HD
752 Sports Time Ohio HD
753 FSN Ohio HD
754 Versus HD
755 FSN Ohio HD Alternate
756 SPEED HD
757 Big Ten Network HD
758 The Golf Channel HD
759 TBS in HD
760 USA HD
761 National Geographic HD
762 Discovery Channel HD
763 Science Channel HD
764 Animal Planet HD
765 TLC HD
766 A&E HD
767 History HD
768 HGTV HD
769 Food Network HD
770 Disney HD
771 Disney XD HD
772 ABC Family HD
773 Sci Fi HD
774 Palladia HD
775 MGM HD (Gold pkg)
777 HDNet (Gold pkg)
778 HDNET Movies (Gold pkg)
780 Universal HD (Gold pkg)
785 ESPN-HD
786 ESPN2-HD
795 HD Showcase On Demand
796 Big Ten Network HD On Demand
799 HD Movies On Demand
322 iN Demand Event 1 HD
401 Adult On Demand HD

Sirius-XM Radio are reporting that the Inaugural Celebration, "We Are One" live from Lincoln Center will be shown on HBO this Sunday at 2:30 pm without a subscription!!!!!!!

It so happens I'm signing up myself that day for Big Love so I would have seen it anyway, but I thought I would pass the word.

You know TW would never tell us.:mad:

http://www.hbo.com/events/weareone/

[QUOTE=ErieMarty;15560429]what area is Mid Ohio ??[/quit]

It's in the middle of Ohio.:D:D:D:D:D:D

Hey, you asked!!!!;)

ErieMarty:
"Mid-Ohio" Usually refers to the Mansfield-Ashland area..About 60 miles north of Columbus and due southwest of Cleveland..

401 Adult On Demand HD???? So is that the Babysitter Channel? ;)

I already get adult on demand. It's called my wife!:D

I already get adult on demand. It's called my wife!:D

Hookbill...is that available to all of us ??? lol

Hookbill...is that available to all of us ??? lol

Right now Marty, you can have her. She's laid up with some elective surgery. Very painful, but you can already see the results and she's been out of the hospital for only one day.

I will also give you my cell phone which she rings about every hour for something she needs. You can assist with the draining tubes. You can feed her. You can listen to her cry and moan. You can deal with trying to keep the cats out of the bedroom. You can get up several times during the middle of the night because she pages you (I'm in the guest room).

In essence, she's getting an upgrade but right now the system is down. When the system returns it will be brighter with a sharper firmer picture.
When she recovers, send her back.:D:D

what area is Mid Ohio ??

TWC-MidOhio HD Lineup (as of 01/14/09):

700 HBO HDTV (Premium)
701 Showtime HD (Premium)
702 Cinemax HD (Premium)
703 Starz HD (Premium)
704 WCMH HD (NBC)
706 WSYX HD (ABC)
707 WOSU HD (PBS)
708 WTTE HD (Fox)
710 WBNS HD (CBS)
713 WWHO HD (CW)
714 CNN HD
715 Fox News Channel HD
717 CNBC HD
722 ESPN News HD
723 ESPNU HD
725 MLB Network HD
740 Travel Channel HD
743 BIO HD
744 Bravo HD
747 FX HD
748 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
749 LifetimeMovieNet HD
750 HD Theater
751 TNT in HD
752 Sports Time Ohio HD
753 FSN Ohio HD
754 Versus HD
755 FSN Ohio HD Alternate
756 SPEED HD
757 Big Ten Network HD
758 The Golf Channel HD
759 TBS in HD
760 USA HD
761 National Geographic HD
762 Discovery Channel HD
763 Science Channel HD
764 Animal Planet HD
765 TLC HD
766 A&E HD
767 History HD
768 HGTV HD
769 Food Network HD
770 Disney HD
771 Disney XD HD
772 ABC Family HD
773 Sci Fi HD
774 Palladia HD
775 MGM HD (Gold pkg)
777 HDNet (Gold pkg)
778 HDNET Movies (Gold pkg)
780 Universal HD (Gold pkg)
785 ESPN-HD
786 ESPN2-HD
795 HD Showcase On Demand
796 Big Ten Network HD On Demand
799 HD Movies On Demand
322 iN Demand Event 1 HD
401 Adult On Demand HD

That's at least starting to get closer to what DirecTV has. Hopefully TWC NEO will have that in a couple months.

That's at least starting to get closer to what DirecTV has. Hopefully TWC NEO will have that in a couple months.

I don't want to burst your bubble, but I'm still sticking with the prediction I had all along. Fall, 2009.

It is my experience that whenever Time Warner announces any type of implementation it's usually 6 months beyond what they say. Since Jasso (Kind of rhymes with something else:eek:;)) said possibly March I put another 6 months on it.

And I don't "Mister" anybody from TW. That includes Fry.

Right now Marty, you can have her. She's laid up with some elective surgery. Very painful, but you can already see the results and she's been out of the hospital for only one day.

I will also give you my cell phone which she rings about every hour for something she needs. You can assist with the draining tubes. You can feed her. You can listen to her cry and moan. You can deal with trying to keep the cats out of the bedroom. You can get up several times during the middle of the night because she pages you (I'm in the guest room).If you had Dish Network, their DVR would take care of all of that. Their DVR is that awesome! ;) Word on the street is Obama is using his Dish Network DVR to come up with the Stimulus Bill.

If you had Dish Network, their DVR would take care of all of that. Their DVR is that awesome! ;) Word on the street is Obama is using his Dish Network DVR to come up with the Stimulus Bill.

I got news for you pal. They got sued by TiVo for stealing their designs. And TiVo won. Eventually that DVR will not be so awesome.

401 Adult On Demand HD

I wonder how much HD bandwidth is being wasted on that garbage? But then again of course TWC would want to show televised f**king (and in HD!), since they f**k us every month with the cable bill! :D:D:D

I got news for you pal. They got sued by TiVo for stealing their designs. And TiVo won. Eventually that DVR will not be so awesome.You are just jealous that your DVR can't drill oil wells or make killer Belgian Waffles like Dish Network's can. :D

That said, apparently, there is a February date for a hearing about a new trial over the TIVO patent infringement. Dish Network says their new design isn't infringing.

Sirius-XM Radio are reporting that the Inaugural Celebration, "We Are One" live from Lincoln Center will be shown on HBO this Sunday at 2:30 pm without a subscription!!!!!!!

It so happens I'm signing up myself that day for Big Love so I would have seen it anyway, but I thought I would pass the word.

You know TW would never tell us.:mad:

http://www.hbo.com/events/weareone/


Per Ohio Media Watch...

Time Warner Cable, the dominant provider here in Northeast Ohio, will go one step further.

TWC says it'll simulcast the HBO event down into analog cable land...where the network hasn't been available for some time in any form, even if you pay for it.

The HBO special will air on the company's Northeast Ohio systems on cable channel 23, the home of the TWC "Northeast Ohio Network" (NEON) local programming channel.

A Time Warner press release says the HBO event will air on the Northwest Ohio and Mid-Ohio systems on cable channel 24, and on cable channel 99 in Southwest Ohio...

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

ErieMarty:
"Mid-Ohio" Usually refers to the Mansfield-Ashland area..About 60 miles north of Columbus and due southwest of Cleveland..

For TWC, "Mid-Ohio" is their name for their Columbus based system. I THINK Mansfield/Ashland are actually under TWC NEO, but I'm not sure.


It is my experience that whenever Time Warner announces any type of implementation it's usually 6 months beyond what they say. Since Jasso (Kind of rhymes with something else:eek:;)) said possibly March I put another 6 months on it.

And I don't "Mister" anybody from TW. That includes Fry.

Can we possibly be adult here, and stop dropping bombs and insults against actual people?

I give Bill Jasso credit for coming out and talking about things. You may or may not like TWC or even what he had to say, but that "rhymes with something else" line was uncalled for. Show some class, hook...and you, too, nickdawg.

I used to listen to Bill Jasso when he was a radio news reporter in Akron. From what I've heard, he's a good guy...and doesn't deserve your shots here even if you disagree with his company's offerings or timetable. Don't make it personal.

Can we possibly be adult here, and stop dropping bombs and insults against actual people?

I give Bill Jasso credit for coming out and talking about things. You may or may not like TWC or even what he had to say, but that "rhymes with something else" line was uncalled for. Show some class, hook...and you, too, nickdawg.

I used to listen to Bill Jasso when he was a radio news reporter in Akron. From what I've heard, he's a good guy...and doesn't deserve your shots here even if you disagree with his company's offerings or timetable. Don't make it personal.

I did give Bill credit when I responded on the media board, and I may have made the mistake of calling him Mister on that board.

The comment about his last name was childish and unnecessary, I'll admit to that. But I still stand by my comment of 6 months.

And quit picking on nickdawg, what the heck did he say this time? Anyway it's my job to pick on him.;)

What happened? Did you count on the SA 8000 to record something and it failed again? Please don't take it out on me.

The comment about his last name was childish and unnecessary, I'll admit to that. But I still stand by my comment of 6 months.

And quit picking on nickdawg, what the heck did he say this time? Anyway it's my job to pick on him.;)

What happened? Did you count on the SA 8000 to record something and it failed again? Please don't take it out on me.

I'm not saying your prediction isn't right...I agree that it'll probably be delayed past the March time frame given by Bill Jasso.

I'm just picking on nickdawg on general principle ;) I mentioned him because he's back to his profane, ranting comments again.

Hey, I'm frustrated, too. I'm a TWC subscriber like you are, and I pay the same insane amount of money to have a full HD lineup (plus Roadrunner Turbo, plus other digital outlets). I feel like my money is being wasted right now as far as the HD end of it, and have seriously considered dumping the SA8000HD and just pulling local HD either OTA or via QAM, as my set supports it.

But IMHO, aiming your comments directly at TWC's local spokesman is uncalled for. He likely has nothing to do with his company's timeline, and sure as heck isn't doing the technical work :D Personal attacks are beyond the pale, and I'm not sure I wanna stick around at a place (here) where they're accepted parts of the commentary.

I feel like my money is being wasted right now as far as the HD end of it, and have seriously considered dumping the SA8000HD and just pulling local HD either OTA or via QAM, as my set supports it.Well, after Feb. if WKYC moves back to a viewable part of the spectrum, why wouldn't you pull the local HD's OTA?

But IMHO, aiming your comments directly at TWC's local spokesman is uncalled for. He likely has nothing to do with his company's timeline, and sure as heck isn't doing the technical work :D Personal attacks are beyond the pale, and I'm not sure I wanna stick around at a place (here) where they're accepted parts of the commentary.

Seriously I don't want you to feel that way, but I did say quoted my comments wern't appropriate concerning his name. What the heck did I also say that was wrong?

And nickdawg, knock off the vaguely disguised profanity. It doesn't bother me personally but Inundated has been around this thread longer then anyone and if it upsets him it probably upsets others. Rant away, find, but do it without the $%$% stuff.

Don't get your panties in a bunch!! :D Being here since 2004, you should know how hookbill, I, and others talk here. We have a really funny, sometimes crude, joking banter. That's how we are. But not always. Go look at the item about TWC HD on Ohio Media Watch. Look for the two comments by "NDizzle". I wrote those two comments. No personal attacks. We know when to be professional and when to be funny. This is a time to be funny and loose. Our cable company sucks monkey balls, we all know that. Might as well poke fun at the *******s running it into the ground!

I give Bill Jasso credit for coming out and talking about things. You may or may not like TWC or even what he had to say, but that "rhymes with something else" line was uncalled for. Show some class, hook...and you, too, nickdawg.

I used to listen to Bill Jasso when he was a radio news reporter in Akron. From what I've heard, he's a good guy...and doesn't deserve your shots here even if you disagree with his company's offerings or timetable. Don't make it personal.

I don't usually comment, but Inundated is correct. Bill Jasso has lived and worked in this community for years. I am sure he works with the information he is given and is subject to the laws of suppply and demand.. I bet that TWC is finding that equipment is promised and delayed, installations at headends are more difficult than originally anticipated. As a broadcaster, I find these issues everyday. Vendors say the equipment will be delivered in time for this or that deadline and, ooops, delayed. But when it arrives, it will be bug free---NOT. The commercial gear--broadcast or cable-- is essentially all not-ready-for-beta testing when it arrives at our facilities. Or you may have $420K worth of equipment installed in a rack and can't use it because the manufacturer of a $450 AES embedder won't ship for two more weeks.This DTV is all being invented and improved as we go, daily. Give TWC and the local broadcasters a bit of a break... they are dealing with more issues than you can imagine... and that doesn't include the Feds and attorneys getting involved.

ErieMarty:
"Mid-Ohio" Usually refers to the Mansfield-Ashland area..About 60 miles north of Columbus and due southwest of Cleveland..

While "Mid Ohio" is the name of the company that owns WMFD-DT, judging from the local stations in that list Mid-Ohio is in the Columbus DMA (Mansfield & Ashland are in the Cleveland DMA which is why all satellite subscribers are now getting WMFD in every county in the Cleveland DMA, but not in any Columbus DMA counties (although with cable YMMV).

I don't mind the local broadcasters, but TWC gets no breaks from me. They were stupid, they screed up, now they're getting burned. And they deserve it. It's not like these new channels finally added to other TWC systems just jumped out of the bushes. D* has been carrying many of them since 2007. There's no excuse to not have SDV deployed across the entire market by now. If D* can shoot satellites into space, TWC can do SDV.

Or even easier, cut some of the damn analog channels. There is NO EXCUSE for having 60+ channels on the analog only tier. There were not even that many channels when cable was all analog. And many of the current analog channels existed on digital cable only when it first came out. The only thing that should be on analog is the local channels and a few basic cable channel, maybe a total of 30(including locals).

This is why I have a burning hatred of TWC---they continue to underestimate the importance of HDTV. Sure, 2 or 3 years ago it made sense to push forward with that VOD nonsense, have a larger analog tier and not do SDV, since there were maybe 15 national HD channels available. And sure it made sense to pull the "BS card" at D*'s claim of 100 HD channels, since any claim from a TV provider usually has some strings attached or is pure bull. But there is no excuse to not adapt to current conditions and what your customer base wants. HDTVs have grown almost exponentially over the last few years. Nationally, it is almost at 25%. And once it breaks 25%, I'll bet 50% is not far off. And all these HDTVs are begging for HD content. And plenty of providers serve it up, unfortunately they tend to be providers with other problems that make them worse than TWC:eek:.

This is where TWC is wrong. People paying for two or more boxes, premium services, digital cable, HDTV tier, HD PPV etc are being pissed on in an attempt to appease the unwashed masses, the lowest common denominator. Us paying customers(often times close to $100 or above) don't get USA, F/X, Scifi, Spike in HD since it is more important to TWC to make sure these, essentially freeloaders who pay for the bare bones cheap package get six music channels as well as these channels in analog. With these shoddy business practices, I'm surprised that TWC isn't suffering any more than they currently are.

I've never met a cable company I've liked. I did meet two satellite companies I liked, Primestar and Direct TV, but technically speaking I got my D* from Pegasus (referred to as Pegasucks frequently).

In reflection however I can't think of too many times I called customer service and the times I did call to complain about something it turned out they were right, although at the time I didn't think so.

Cable companies, not a one. Going all the way back to the 80's, I've always had problems with them.

I believe that some of the networks have continued carriage on the analog channels written into their contracts, so dont look for them to go away anytime soon

Well, after Feb. if WKYC moves back to a viewable part of the spectrum, why wouldn't you pull the local HD's OTA?

That's one factor in my decision making.

I do watch some cable channels, but I think I can do without the HD versions. And if I want to record something (save for those), I have a USB HDTV stick I can use on the computer. Or I can record the SD versions on my TiVo in the bedroom.

I believe that some of the networks have continued carriage on the analog channels written into their contracts, so dont look for them to go away anytime soon

Exactly. This is one of the things I'm talking about here - people going on assumptions, ranting about things they don't know.

Seriously I don't want you to feel that way, but I did say quoted my comments wern't appropriate concerning his name. What the heck did I also say that was wrong?


I was just reiterating my concern over your previous comment, just so you know that it's important to me. And since I choose to spend time here and take part in this forum, it makes ME look bad if someone like Bill Jasso comes in here and sees people personally attacking him.

It's just another part of the whole "Internet people with no lives in their basement taking pot shots at people just because they're ticked" thing.

And nickdawg, knock off the vaguely disguised profanity. It doesn't bother me personally but Inundated has been around this thread longer then anyone and if it upsets him it probably upsets others. Rant away, find, but do it without the $%$% stuff.

I'm no prude or anything, but I'm sick of reading the graphic descriptions and crude stuff. If he continues, I'll have to find this forum's ignore feature.

We know when to be professional and when to be funny. This is a time to be funny and loose. Our cable company

...oh, nevermind. You're too crude for me. Fun, loose, sure...but the crude wording and imagery I can do without.

I don't usually comment, but Inundated is correct. Bill Jasso has lived and worked in this community for years.

Indeed, he has. When he was doing radio news in Akron, it was the mid-1970's!

Thank you for making my point for me. Things Happen, and people sitting at home watching their cable TV feed have no idea. Or with the local stations...people on these forums used to complain when a station had to record an HD show in SD.

"I have a DVR in my living room and I can record it, I don't see any reason why they can't!" Umm, local stations can't use a consumer DVR to record, and all of the stations that can do it now spent a pretty penny to do so.

There's no excuse to not have SDV deployed across the entire market by now. If D* can shoot satellites into space, TWC can do SDV.

How in the world are these two related?

And is there a possibility that there IS an "excuse" to do it, they're just not doing it fast enough for you? Are you at the headends? Do you know the process? Can you even name the equipment they use to implement SDV?

Then - you don't know.

Or even easier, cut some of the damn analog channels. There is NO EXCUSE for having 60+ channels on the analog only tier.

I generally agree with you about the need to start clearing out analog channels for more bandwidth for HD/digital/other services. I suspect this will start happening on its own within a year of the OTA digital transition.

Look, I don't think you're wrong about a lot of what you said. I'm one of those "premium" subscribers, with HDTV, digital boxes, Roadrunner Turbo and the works.

I just paid my bill today - it's now up to $165 a month (!!!). I want more value for that money, and as noted, am thinking of dumping all the extras. Just one digital box on the TiVo, an analog downstairs that's feeding the Slingbox, and dumping the DVR/HD service on the HD set, using OTA and/or QAM to deliver the locals.

And I'm thisclose to doing it.

I just don't word my frustration like you do, and your writing style isn't easy to take. IMHO, of course.

Completely agreed all around Inundated. People seem to quickly forget that TWCNEO isn't run by just 2 or 3 people but rather quite a large number of people in numerous departments to keep it all running as a legitimate business and more often than not some sacrifices need to be made to keep it all running smoothly. Not to mention the numerous outside forces that determine how they run things. Like content providers, stockholders, etc.. Did we so quickly forget this mess with Viacom? If TW wanted to, they could have said screw you and cut all Viacom's channels in light of not increasing your rates. But rather than piss off both Viacom AND their own customers, they came to a mutual agreement and kept things running smoothly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is something that I have said before: They cannot please everyone all of the time. They can't add more HD channels without either SDV or cutting out analog channels. If they cut out analog channels, they piss off analog subscribers. They can't do something like FTTH for obvious reasons involving the needed capital for upgrades and their investors/stockholders. So the only option is SDV which IS going to take place, but needs EVERY area in the NEO region to be up to snuff and equal so they can make a clean move to a full hog SDV offering. And even with this, there are going to be a small handful of people that will be upset namely those with cablecard devices that are not compatible with the tuning resolvers. But this group is substantially less than HD proponents and basic analog subscribers who'd be extremely upset if they either continued with a lackluster HD lineup or cut out half the analog lineup for more HD programming.

As Jasso stated in the OMW blog entry, TWCNEO is fully aware of their customer base and is currently well on track to make SDV and these upgrades that'll please the large majority of their customer base. But until they can deploy it, they need to get their plants cleaned up primarily in the previous Comcast and Adelphia regions which WILL take time if you even have a remote amount of knowledge of all the equipment involved all the way from the Satellite content feeds right down to your set.

And I, too, am really apalled at those who have taken direct attacks on the guy. It really takes an idiot to do such a thing. The guy is not involved with doing hands on work on the cable plants, he's not involved in being the ultimate final decider on what upgrades need to be done and when. As far as I know, he's just another PR guy and at least he is being extremely open about what TWCNEO is working on compared to CSR's or other PR types. You should ultimately be complaining, if at all, to TWCNEO as a whole business entity. Not taking a personal stab at any of their employees like many these days love to do. It's one reason why I really loathe those who feel like they should bitch to CSR's about more technical issues in a personal manner when half the time these CSR's are required to follow their scripts or risk getting FIRED. I mean, I've talked to my share of CSR's who have admitted that the scripts are crap and between of myself and them, the call could be cut down to a fraction of the length without the script, but it had to be followed.

Believe me when I say that I am just annoyed as everyone else here about the lackluster quality of TW's services so far. Their phone service is about the only redeeming service that I can praise. But as Jasso has pointed out, TWCNEO /IS/ working on getting the region upgraded and increasing HD offerings for a start. It's just taking a while because we don't have the advantages of other regions like having a uniform cable plant, lack of anal franchise agreements, etc..

I'm willing to give TWCNEO a chance and willing to wait till spring or mid-summer at the very latest. By that time I should have my own income and will jump to DirecTV in a heartbeat should they fail to deliver. But I have faith. They aren't THAT heartless. I mean, you can email Mr. Fry and get **** done in record time. That should certainly say something. The only reason why going through CSR's and local techs usually doesn't do squat is because they certainly can't differentiate between genuine techies, know-it-alls, and just plain tech-illiterate types. And when you have a LARGE customer base, that point is exacerbated tenfold.

For the few that have TiVo here, and for those who don't and wonder why I make such a fuss about it you can see their display at the CES.

They have added a new HD search feature and have changed the way TiVo comes back with it's search. You can even search for HD on YouTube.

nickdawg I know you and I have had some go arounds on this but I don't know if you truly understand the TiVo experience. One of the many things you rant about is lack of technology. Take a look here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xd6f88JIp4).

I'm not saying to everyone go buy a TiVo. I've already said if you're happy then fine, no need to spend extra money and there is no doubt TiVo will cause you to spend some extra money. Just have a look.

And fwiw, in the TiVo Forum people say that the cost of cable cards and TiVo itself will actually reduce the cost of your cable bill and therefore pay for itself. I don't know if that is true.

Completely agreed all around Inundated. People seem to quickly forget that TWCNEO isn't run by just 2 or 3 people but rather quite a large number of people in numerous departments to keep it all running as a legitimate business and more often than not some sacrifices need to be made to keep it all running smoothly. Not to mention the numerous outside forces that determine how they run things. Like content providers, stockholders, etc.. Did we so quickly forget this mess with Viacom? If TW wanted to, they could have said screw you and cut all Viacom's channels in light of not increasing your rates. But rather than piss off both Viacom AND their own customers, they came to a mutual agreement and kept things running smoothly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is something that I have said before: They cannot please everyone all of the time. They can't add more HD channels without either SDV or cutting out analog channels. If they cut out analog channels, they piss off analog subscribers. They can't do something like FTTH for obvious reasons involving the needed capital for upgrades and their investors/stockholders. So the only option is SDV which IS going to take place, but needs EVERY area in the NEO region to be up to snuff and equal so they can make a clean move to a full hog SDV offering. And even with this, there are going to be a small handful of people that will be upset namely those with cablecard devices that are not compatible with the tuning resolvers. But this group is substantially less than HD proponents and basic analog subscribers who'd be extremely upset if they either continued with a lackluster HD lineup or cut out half the analog lineup for more HD programming.

As Jasso stated in the OMW blog entry, TWCNEO is fully aware of their customer base and is currently well on track to make SDV and these upgrades that'll please the large majority of their customer base. But until they can deploy it, they need to get their plants cleaned up primarily in the previous Comcast and Adelphia regions which WILL take time if you even have a remote amount of knowledge of all the equipment involved all the way from the Satellite content feeds right down to your set.

And I, too, am really apalled at those who have taken direct attacks on the guy. It really takes an idiot to do such a thing. The guy is not involved with doing hands on work on the cable plants, he's not involved in being the ultimate final decider on what upgrades need to be done and when. As far as I know, he's just another PR guy and at least he is being extremely open about what TWCNEO is working on compared to CSR's or other PR types. You should ultimately be complaining, if at all, to TWCNEO as a whole business entity. Not taking a personal stab at any of their employees like many these days love to do. It's one reason why I really loathe those who feel like they should bitch to CSR's about more technical issues in a personal manner when half the time these CSR's are required to follow their scripts or risk getting FIRED. I mean, I've talked to my share of CSR's who have admitted that the scripts are crap and between of myself and them, the call could be cut down to a fraction of the length without the script, but it had to be followed.

Believe me when I say that I am just annoyed as everyone else here about the lackluster quality of TW's services so far. Their phone service is about the only redeeming service that I can praise. But as Jasso has pointed out, TWCNEO /IS/ working on getting the region upgraded and increasing HD offerings for a start. It's just taking a while because we don't have the advantages of other regions like having a uniform cable plant, lack of anal franchise agreements, etc..

I'm willing to give TWCNEO a chance and willing to wait till spring or mid-summer at the very latest. By that time I should have my own income and will jump to DirecTV in a heartbeat should they fail to deliver. But I have faith. They aren't THAT heartless. I mean, you can email Mr. Fry and get **** done in record time. That should certainly say something. The only reason why going through CSR's and local techs usually doesn't do squat is because they certainly can't differentiate between genuine techies, know-it-alls, and just plain tech-illiterate types. And when you have a LARGE customer base, that point is exacerbated tenfold.

I hope you're not looping me in the group of people or person that is crying foul on the SDV thing. I personally don't care if it ever gets here. I just don't like cable companies.

My main gripe with TW is the fact that they restrict all digitial channels from copy more then once. That means I cannot send a copy of a digital recorded program to my computer or to another TiVo. I think this is unfair and while I do believe some channels need restriction, I don't think it should be any of the channels they offer in analog. TBS, TNT, ESPN, ESPN2 you can copy freely in analog. Why not HD?

And this is solely the cable company who makes this decision. Other companies don't restrict as much and Verizon doesn't restrict at all.

To end this on somewhat of a happy note I will say that Time Warner Cable is far, far better then Adelphia. Without a doubt the worst of the cable companies I have ever dealt with.

This is why I have a burning hatred of TWC---they continue to underestimate the importance of HDTV.Or maybe they realize that based on the monopoly they have, they don't need to make such a leap to HDTV, because in the end... people will pay for it. You've got the older folks who don't want change and will gladly overpay for analog channels. Or even that the vast majority of households don't even have an HDTV.

One thing is clear, you are overestimating the importance of HDTV. One reason I haven't gotten an HDTV is the lack of programming... still. People with HDTV's seem to have this odd feeling that the world owes them HD programming because they spent a fortune on a TV that can show it. Heck, the 2009 transition isn't even to HD, but "digital".

But there is no excuse to not adapt to current conditions and what your customer base wants.You need to rephrase that comment as to what "you" want. Again, some HDTV owners seem to see HDTV programming as a birthright or something.

HDTVs have grown almost exponentially over the last few years. Nationally, it is almost at 25%. And once it breaks 25%, I'll bet 50% is not far off.You are clued in on this global recession right? If 1 in 4 tvs are HDTV's, that isn't quite a huge mandate from the consumers. And that percentage shouldn't be changing too much as credit gets squeezed and people need to pay cash for these things.

This is where TWC is wrong. People paying for two or more boxes, premium services, digital cable, HDTV tier, HD PPV etc are being pissed on in an attempt to appease the unwashed masses, the lowest common denominator. Us paying customers(often times close to $100 or above) don't get USA, F/X, Scifi, Spike in HD since it is more important to TWC to make sure these, essentially freeloaders who pay for the bare bones cheap package get six music channels as well as these channels in analog. With these shoddy business practices, I'm surprised that TWC isn't suffering any more than they currently are."freeloaders"? Are you kidding me?! They can't afford $100+ a month for cable and you call them "freeloaders"? Speak about being out of touch.

One point, and I'll move on from all this on my end of things.

ALL cable customers want the cable company to serve their own needs.

Some people want cheap analog service. Some are even aboard just to get the locals, because they don't want to mess with an antenna. (This is considered one of the few potential growth areas for cable systems, with the digital transition.)

Some have HD sets, and that population is indeed growing, and they don't give a crap about anything but a wide variety of cable channels in HD format. They're frustrated, because even in nearby systems run by the same company, those customers have a wider selection.

Some don't care about HD at all, and want video on demand.

Some customers want digital phone, even if you're like me and have Vonage, and don't care about TWC's offerings.

Despite the rise in adoption of HD sets, those of us who have them are NOT the majority in 2009. Heck, sales of HD sets were NOT red hot this past holiday shopping season, as NOTHING was flying off the shelves in the collapsing retail sector.

If you wanted an "excuse", TWC could well say that the crummy economy means they won't spend more money to upgrade systems. They haven't said that. It's still a competitive market (satellite, U-verse/FiOS, etc.) and the number of HD set owners - while still not a majority - is high enough that it's an investment in the future to upgrade...even in the worst global recession in our lifetime.

They'll get SDV going, and analog channels will start migrating to digital in larger numbers due to market forces and the changing world of TV in general.

It's just not quick enough for many - including me. Again, I'm frustrated as well, to the point I'm about to jump ship re: paying a lot of extra money to TWC for inadequate (in my view) HD service. Remember, my bill last month was over $160.

But I recognize the reality of the marketplace, the reality of how cable systems run, the reality of what's out there - even if it doesn't mesh with my own needs. If I don't think it does, I'll consider going elsewhere. I'm happy enough with the general service I get from TWC, and am more than happy with Roadrunner (Turbo), so I'm not considering dumping TWC overall...but I am considering scaling back the premium stuff.

Even so, ranting here about it does nothing. Those market realities still exist, whether you choose to ignore them or not. Ranting here isn't going to cause the TWC Great Service Fairy to come down and say "you know what, screw it, we're going to change our plan to make YOU (individual customer who wants HD) happy". The market will drag them there sooner than you think...stuff doesn't happen in that world in days.

Even the DirecTV people complained about that service's HD offerings until the company spent a kazillion dollars - as part of their own, previously set plan - to launch new satellites to provide a lot of HD channels.

Since someone tried to compare that to cable here, you could say that TWC's SDV implementation - along with stuff like moving analog channels up in to digital - is their version of the D* satellite launch. You just can't snap your fingers and get them to "get into gear" to speed up technical plans...no matter how much you gripe here.

And that's what I've been tired about.

Look, hookbill, I like ya. You're a good guy. A bit cranky, but I've never experienced your wrath at a TWC customer service office :D

And though your crude way of making points bothers me, nickdawg...as I said, you make a lot of points I do agree with.

There...a little diplomacy on my part. :)

on the different frustrations of the end user.

My biggest one as a HD TV owner..is that some area get we more HD channels then we do and its not like we are talking some place on the west coast..but Just a few miles south in Ohio..(Mid Ohio)..there options are soo much greater then ours. If we had those channels you wouldn't be seeing many people complaining about the lack of HD channels

again GREAT POST...

Or maybe they realize that based on the monopoly they have, they don't need to make such a leap to HDTV, because in the end... people will pay for it. You've got the older folks who don't want change and will gladly overpay for analog channels.

Totally agree with up to the point I bolded but I'd like you to clarify...what are "older folks" to you?


One thing is clear, you are overestimating the importance of HDTV. One reason I haven't gotten an HDTV is the lack of programming... still. People with HDTV's seem to have this odd feeling that the world owes them HD programming because they spent a fortune on a TV that can show it. Heck, the 2009 transition isn't even to HD, but "digital".

You need to rephrase that comment as to what "you" want. Again, some HDTV owners seem to see HDTV programming as a birthright or something.

You are clued in on this global recession right? If 1 in 4 tvs are HDTV's, that isn't quite a huge mandate from the consumers. And that percentage shouldn't be changing too much as credit gets squeezed and people need to pay cash for these things.

"freeloaders"? Are you kidding me?! They can't afford $100+ a month for cable and you call them "freeloaders"? Speak about being out of touch.

Well said. nickdawg frequently crosses up on this point. My problem with most analog from TW is it plain looks bad. Now I understand that "analog" doesn't mean digital picture is better, but it sure appears that way EXCEPT for locals which for some odd reason they take analog and convert to digital. I say just let them be in analog, but I'm sure they have their reasons for doing this.

I'd like to see TW go ahead and give out boxes to people who have lifeline cable and change everything to digital. Those who are already paying for expanded basic, they can pop for another 10 bucks for the box, if it's that much. Lifeline folks would still be limited to the channels that they pay for, expanded people would become digital customers.

Look, hookbill, I like ya. You're a good guy. A bit cranky, but I've never experienced your wrath at a TWC customer service office :D
:)

I like you too, dude. I don't have a clue as to why I appear cranky, I think I've got an off beat sense of humor. Too many people don't hang around here as long as you and I have, and despite nickdawgs rants I like him too. Matter of fact there is a whole slew of people that are either new or I'm just noticing (like yespage) that I enjoy who contribute to this thread.

As far as that incident at ADELPHIA (not TWC) those people are gone now and the doctors have changed my medication. I don't go off on people in public anymore.

That last part was a bit of my off beat humor.....or was it????:D:D;)

Or maybe they realize that based on the monopoly they have, they don't need to make such a leap to HDTV, because in the end... people will pay for it. You've got the older folks who don't want change and will gladly overpay for analog channels. Or even that the vast majority of households don't even have an HDTV.

You see, I didn't say they need to get HDTVs, just add more HDTV channels. TO do that, all TWC would have to do is cut off ALL analog basic cable except for the 12 or 13 local broadcast. That means the 60+ national networks are gone. If you want locals only, fine. If you want more than locals, GET A DAMN CABLE BOX!!! I don't understand this aversion to cable boxes, other than $$$. BUT, if you're leasing digital cable boxes to almost all of your customers, the price of those boxes could come down, making them more affordable. And if they're more affordable, there won't be a problem getting an extra one for the bedroom or kitchen. And the folks at Scientific Atlanta would be very happy to sell some more 4250s and 8300s!:D

One thing is clear, you are overestimating the importance of HDTV. One reason I haven't gotten an HDTV is the lack of programming... still. People with HDTV's seem to have this odd feeling that the world owes them HD programming because they spent a fortune on a TV that can show it. Heck, the 2009 transition isn't even to HD, but "digital".

One thing is clear, you are underestimating HDTV. Even though the mandate is DIGITAL, the FIVE major Networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, CW, FOX) and PBS all broadcast a high definition network feed and almost(if not all) their affiliates broadcast in HDTV. In two years, the handful of HDTV cable stations that have been constant for 5+ years before that grew exponentially. Just this year, ABC and CBS news invested in HDTV network news coverage for evening news and primetime magazine plus covering the entire convention/election in HDTV. ABC News has an entire lineup of HD news programming, NBC is close behind and CBS is catching up once the Early Show goes HD. Local news stations are also moving to HDTV. It's even being used in the branding. Once NBC Cleveland went HD, WEWS and even bottom feeder WOIO were not far behind. Syndicated HD used to consist of Wheel and Jeopardy. Now there are so many shows, many of which are available, but not here on WOIO or WUAB. Obviously this was all done because this "little HD thing" as you seem to think it, is something. They do owe it to us because money talks, and we all know what walks!;)

You need to rephrase that comment as to what "you" want. Again, some HDTV owners seem to see HDTV programming as a birthright or something.

Hmmm, there seems to be a general consensus here on this forum, the entire national AVS forum, Ohio Media Watch, Tivo Forums,and any other forum you can think of. I'm sure TWC gets hundreds of emails daily about this issue. It's not a "birthright" as you put it so crassly. It's more of this is the way of the future. Digital, whether it be HD or SD, is the future. It's time to stop dragging our heels in technology because a few brain dead morons can't comprehend the message of several millions of ads that have been running since 2007.

You are clued in on this global recession right? If 1 in 4 tvs are HDTV's, that isn't quite a huge mandate from the consumers. And that percentage shouldn't be changing too much as credit gets squeezed and people need to pay cash for these things.

But HDTVs sold in huge numbers this season, and they still do. Local TWC office couldn't even keep HD boxes in stock. Everyone in line when I was there last month was getting a HD box. I don't even think I saw a single SDTV box leave that place. Regardless of whether or not they have an HDTV set, they still have HD DIGITAL CABLE boxes, which means they are watching all the channels in DIGITAL. Analog is only left for TVs without the boxes. Why the hell are we doing that? Make the rest of the customers get boxes.

"freeloaders"? Are you kidding me?! They can't afford $100+ a month for cable and you call them "freeloaders"? Speak about being out of touch.

I have NO, read my lips, NO pity for people who can't pay their cable bill. I have to cut and save like mad every month to pay those blood suckers, but I still pay my "flirting with $100" a month bill. People like you act like cable TV is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE. Nobody NEEDS cable TV. So those of us willing to pay this extra expense every month DESERVE to get our money's worth. Those of us paying for HDTV boxes and digital tier channels should not have our wallets industrial Hoovered by people who spit on us to provide more channels to those who pay almost nothing, and can connect an infinite number of TVs to the analog cable line, thus making them FREELOADERS! If I want Digital/HD on my others, I need a box. A box I pay for. Why should I have a piss poor selection of channels when someone who pays one flat rate for analog gets infinite programming choices on infinite TVs? Analog cable did not have this size lineup back in the days when analog was the only cable out there. There's no need when the nation and the world is going digital to keep having so much available in analog. You cannot justify keeping all the current analog channels available in analog. If you try to argue that, it would be equivalent to arguing that analog OTA should never end, even though it is terribly inefficient and hindering progress.

Totally agree with up to the point I bolded but I'd like you to clarify...what are "older folks" to you?The older people who are afraid of change, or overwhelmed by it. I was telling a local person in my neighborhood about Dish Network having an uber-cheap base package, but they wanted to stick with TWC because it was simpler. New boxes, new wires, new remotes, new channel locations, that can be a bother to some who'd rather stay from change and stick with ole reliable enough.

That last part was a bit of my off beat humor.....or was it????:D:D;)Oh I hate cliff hangers. ;)

My biggest one as a HD TV owner..is that some area get we more HD channels then we do and its not like we are talking some place on the west coast..but Just a few miles south in Ohio..(Mid Ohio)..there options are soo much greater then ours. If we had those channels you wouldn't be seeing many people complaining about the lack of HD channels


But you know what? We're the problem they face. You and I. And hookbill, and nickdawg, and all the rest of us here talking to each other on the Internet on forums like this one.

Without the Internet, how are you, in Erie, going to know that TWC Mid-Ohio has more HD channels? You might have a relative in Columbus, or be visiting and see an ad in the Columbus Dispatch, but other than that...you'd never know.

I thinK TWC and other cable companies, cable and satellite channels and other providers are not at all prepared to deal with this effect.

Look at the mess with SportsTime Ohio and DirecTV blocking STO for non-Cleveland/Akron/Canton/Youngstown/Columbus subscribers back when it first started.

That mess went through the roof because, well, of people getting information online and realizing they COULD have something (STO), but it was being withheld from them arbitrarily by the satellite company.

DirecTV also would rather you not have known that Dish Network distributed STO even in the first year for the entire Indians broadcast territory.


As far as that incident at ADELPHIA (not TWC) those people are gone now and the doctors have changed my medication. I don't go off on people in public anymore.


That's good for both public safety and your own health. :D

And I'm glad TWC could contribute to the peace. I was no fan of Adelphia, either, and despite the current issues (HD, etc.), I'm much happier with them than I was with Adelphia.

You do remember that an Adelphia customer service phone rep insulted me directly? :D Of course, I also had nice, friendly phone chats with another (female) Adelphia rep up in PA...too bad she wasn't down here. ;)

The older people who are afraid of change, or overwhelmed by it. I was telling a local person in my neighborhood about Dish Network having an uber-cheap base package, but they wanted to stick with TWC because it was simpler. New boxes, new wires, new remotes, new channel locations, that can be a bother to some who'd rather stay from change and stick with ole reliable enough.



Hmmmmmm....This is about as politically correct as you can get. You answered the question without mentioning an age group so you didn't offend.

Now I wonder if you're this quick on your feet in person, or if it took a little bit of time to come up with this response.;)

I hope you're not looping me in the group of people or person that is crying foul on the SDV thing. I personally don't care if it ever gets here. I just don't like cable companies.

No, by all means I'm not lumping you in that group. In fact, my intent was not to lash out at those crying foul on SDV but rather pointing out that all the different options TW /COULD/ take aren't all feasible but SDV creates the fewest problems from a PR standpoint.

Rather though, I'm not pointing any fingers, but just talking about 'people' as a whole who tend to go off all half-cocked just because they aren't personally pandered to like royalty.

Yes, TW has some legitimate issues that should be adressed including the copy protection mess you mentioned hookbill. But you'll see this from any company in any region. Just some people seem to get involved with this stuff more than others.


On a lighter note, I've started to realise how even my own mother is beginning to catch the HD bug even though she's really tech-illiterate. I've had to start explaining why some shows are pillarboxed and why we have so few HD channels, etc. :D

I just heard this on Action 19 News.:rolleyes:

Jeff Tancheck just went out there and predicted, get this, 4 to 9 inches of snow. He said NWS hasn't issued any warnings but he has a "feeling" it will be worst. Channel 5 is predicting 2-4 inches.

I give him credit for having some guts, let's see if he's right.

Now this is why they are the king of garbage: Oprah Winfrey on Crack. They "reported" that some dude who is going to die of cancer in 2 years is writing a "tell all" book saying that Oprah was a crackhead in the 80's.

Now what makes this so funny is the very person who is "reporting" this say's, "we don't know if this is true or not."

Huh? Then why the heck are you even reporting this.

Ridiculous.

One thing is clear, you are overestimating the importance of HDTV. One reason I haven't gotten an HDTV is the lack of programming... still.


I'm curious about your "lack of programming" in HD comment. What do you frequently watch in SD that isn't available in HD by one of the available providers?

The only things we watch SD on D* is "Mad Men" on AMC and it should be available in HD by next season; plus, maybe something on the Travel Channel once in a while which is also rumored to be a near term add to their HD channels.

I'm still waiting for the chill index advisory that Tanchek said we all should run away and hide from. The weather programs are really laughable. Ten seconds of weather expanded to 35 minutes of program time. Yes, it's winter and it's cold and it does snow and occasionally there is freezing rain. Tanchek needs to take a few more dumps into Lake Erie.
JJK

I'm still waiting for the chill index advisory that Tanchek said we all should run away and hide from. The weather programs are really laughable. Ten seconds of weather expanded to 35 minutes of program time. Yes, it's winter and it's cold and it does snow and occasionally there is freezing rain. Tanchek needs to take a few more dumps into Lake Erie.
JJK

But he's on a roll! Let's see if he hit's it again tomorrow. He says it will be until Sunday evening that the 4-9 will occur.

I really don't like him but I give credit when due. Sometimes.:)

Well, all I'll say on this sh*tty weather is the weather channel is showing another big clipper headed down this way from up near the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc.. How much it dumps is another story altogether.

they still have HD DIGITAL CABLE boxes, which means they are watching all the channels in DIGITAL. .

Should read: ".....they are watching some channels that originate from a digital signal and some converted into digital from a poor analog signal. "

4 to 9 inches? Maybe if you combine all the possible snow for the weekend and the following week. What a loon!
I'm still waiting for the chill index advisory that Tanchek said we all should run away and hide from. The weather programs are really laughable. Ten seconds of weather expanded to 35 minutes of program time. Yes, it's winter and it's cold and it does snow and occasionally there is freezing rain. Tanchek needs to take a few more dumps into Lake Erie.
JJKNot to defend what is typically garbage Channel 19 news coverage, but we had wind chills colder than 20 below on Friday. That is serious stuff.

You see, I didn't say they need to get HDTVs, just add more HDTV channels. TO do that, all TWC would have to do is cut off ALL analog basic cable except for the 12 or 13 local broadcast. That means the 60+ national networks are gone.
TWC is a business. A Business has a model that dictates the decisions they make. Some day in the future cable will be 100% digital. Just not today. The cost to give out boxes to the majority of analog only subs at this time would be prohibitive. Forcing digital boxes on the analog subs is unacceptable at this point. Why? Because they are still in the MAJORITY! Until the day that digital cable can be as user friendly as the current analog cable system is (i.e. cable ready, no limit on the number of sets hooked up etc.) then we will still have analog cable around.

Put yourself in TWC's shoes. Would you cut off the analog tier that generates ~$50/mo per sub, making all those subs ~$10 lifeline subs? BTW Those analog subs subsidize your digital cable to a degeree. If you wanted 100% pure digital cable today, be prepaired to pay more, a lot more. Be careful what you wish for, it may come true and bite you in the wallet!

4 to 9 inches? Maybe if you combine all the possible snow for the weekend and the following week. What a loon!
Not to defend what is typically garbage Channel 19 news coverage, but we had wind chills colder than 20 below on Friday. That is serious stuff.

I dunno. I heard a few years back some "expert" on the weather who said that wind chill temperatures are not real, that they were made up by television. As I recall what was said basically was the air is what the temperature is, and yes the wind may feel colder to you but the temperature is still the same.

I know I was out in it a bit yesterday and even with long underwear, and heavy coat it was cutting. Thick wool socks weren't much help either.

TWC is a business. A Business has a model that dictates the decisions they make. Some day in the future cable will be 100% digital. Just not today. The cost to give out boxes to the majority of analog only subs at this time would be prohibitive. Forcing digital boxes on the analog subs is unacceptable at this point. Why? Because they are still in the MAJORITY! Until the day that digital cable can be as user friendly as the current analog cable system is (i.e. cable ready, no limit on the number of sets hooked up etc.) then we will still have analog cable around.

Put yourself in TWC's shoes. Would you cut off the analog tier that generates ~$50/mo per sub, making all those subs ~$10 lifeline subs? BTW Those analog subs subsidize your digital cable to a degeree. If you wanted 100% pure digital cable today, be prepaired to pay more, a lot more. Be careful what you wish for, it may come true and bite you in the wallet!

I have to question really what the majority is. I know it isn't digital customers but I doubt it's lifeline either. I'll bet the majority is expanded basic.

If I'm correct I think my idea of offering lifeline only free boxes and then charging digital boxes to the customers who have expanded basic people makes sense. Once they saw the improvement of quality expanded basic people would gladly shell out the 10 bucks a month or so for the box. They would digitally broadcast the channels for existing expanded basic, and eliminate any analog or conversion.

Just a thought.

I have to question really what the majority is. I know it isn't digital customers but I doubt it's lifeline either. I'll bet the majority is expanded basic.

If I'm correct I think my idea of offering lifeline only free boxes and then charging digital boxes to the customers who have expanded basic people makes sense. Once they saw the improvement of quality expanded basic people would gladly shell out the 10 bucks a month or so for the box. They would digitally broadcast the channels for existing expanded basic, and eliminate any analog or conversion.

Just a thought.I believe the analog "expanded basic" subs are the majority. $10/mo per TV would be a deal killer for most expanded basic households. Like I said make digital cable as user friendly as the current "expanded basic" analog before taking away the 60+ analog channels. The current "fix" for people without a digital TV is for the cable company to do the conversion back to analog. That is much cheaper than deploying digital cable boxes systemwide.

BTW I'm one of the rare few not in TWC territory, we have COX at work and if I chose to get cable (over my beloved E*) COX is the only choice. My friends down the street have a choice of TWC or WOW (they have WOW) but on the Parma side of the line no WOW, just COX. Anyway I digress, what I'd like to know is does TWC scramble any analog channels currently or are all 60+ in the clear (like it is on COX)? Traps for lifeline do not count. I mean can an "expanded basic" sub on TWC hook any cable ready analog set and get the full 60+ analog channels without a box of any kind? That is what will be necessary for digital cable before it's accepted by the majority.

I read your horror stories over cable cards and disappearing QAM channels. Those issues have to go away for good to get the majority to buy into digital cable.

flipping through the HD Channels and I found HD Texas Holdem Poker on Fox Ohio in HD channel...

I read your horror stories over cable cards and disappearing QAM channels. Those issues have to go away for good to get the majority to buy into digital cable.

I've had a couple of problems with cable cards, but really the biggest problem I seem to have is TW doesn't want to hit all my cards when they add channels. Take MLB network. They seemed to hit 4 of my cards but didn't hit the S3, and that's the one they usually miss. Untrained CSR's want to put you through the motions before (or if) they will actually help you.

Usually what I do now when they tell me to do something I just say OK and wait for my opportunity to instruct them on what needs to be done. That's usually at the point of "We need to send a tech...". It's really not as bad as it seems.

Or I call my contact at head end.;)

flipping through the HD Channels and I found HD Texas Holdem Poker on Fox Ohio in HD channel...

Yeah, TiVo cheerfully told me about some channel in the 800's that was added. I don't think it was an english channel. However those morons over at Tribune Media can't seem to add data for MLB Network.

Sorry Inundated, it gets me cranky.:D

Yeah, TiVo cheerfully told me about some channel in the 800's that was added. I don't think it was an english channel. However those morons over at Tribune Media can't seem to add data for MLB Network.

Sorry Inundated, it gets me cranky.:D

Yeah, "morons". Like, they have nothing else to do. They're playing solitaire on the computer, and refuse to add MLB Network because they'd have to stop their game.

Uhhh...no. :D

But relax, hookbill...I sent off my missive that worked last time to fix FSN Ohio.

Hi ya'll. I just need to vent. I have been trying to get a M stream cable card installed for three weeks with TWC and STILL haven't gotten it!! 1st time they coded me as a weak signal... I told them I needed a cable card install. Great... So last week I get a call 1.5 hrs into my schedule stating that they don't have any. Today the guy shows up and can't get the M card to work, statement is made that the card wasn't in inventory... so he tries two different s cards and can't get them to work. Now I have wasted my entire day calling to get this straightened out (multiple holds one promised call back with nothing, etc...). The tech that came out today calls and tells me the M card he had was from canton and can't get it to work and they are all out of cable cards. This is just shoddy customer service at it's finest. I have been craving to use my new TivoHD and now have a "call back" set to establish a service call once again. This is all total B.S. and I have e-mailed Steve Fry. If Fios were here I'd be scheduling my switch today.

Thanks for letting me rant.

Hi ya'll. I just need to vent. I have been trying to get a M stream cable card installed for three weeks with TWC and STILL haven't gotten it!! 1st time they coded me as a weak signal... I told them I needed a cable card install. Great... So last week I get a call 1.5 hrs into my schedule stating that they don't have any. Today the guy shows up and can't get the M card to work, statement is made that the card wasn't in inventory... so he tries two different s cards and can't get them to work. Now I have wasted my entire day calling to get this straightened out (multiple holds one promised call back with nothing, etc...). The tech that came out today calls and tells me the M card he had was from canton and can't get it to work and they are all out of cable cards. This is just shoddy customer service at it's finest. I have been craving to use my new TivoHD and now have a "call back" set to establish a service call once again. This is all total B.S. and I have e-mailed Steve Fry. If Fios were here I'd be scheduling my switch today.

Thanks for letting me rant.

There is no reason why 2 S cards will not work. I have two in my S3 and my TiVo HD

The only thing I can tell you is you will have to watch these guys like a hawk. They make mistakes on these installs. All it takes is to misread a letter on the card.

Practice learning the navigation screens on the CC menu. Find out where the emm's are, they need to know that. And YOU handle the remote. Don't let them touch it.

Also pay close attention to when they call in the CC#'s as I said before I caught them making an error. Write down the CC (s) number as well, it will come in handy. I have mine set up in word.

Thanks Hookbill. I will look into this for Next Saturday's install. FWIW, after Two calls to dispatch the tech called back and told me the M card he had was from Canton and that is why it wouldn't work. An entire wasted day for a $20 credit, cauliflower ear from being on hold so darn long (plus the multiple transfers between departments) and another scheduled install. YIPPIE!

Thanks Hookbill. I will look into this for Next Saturday's install. FWIW, after Two calls to dispatch the tech called back and told me the M card he had was from Canton and that is why it wouldn't work. An entire wasted day for a $20 credit, cauliflower ear from being on hold so darn long (plus the multiple transfers between departments) and another scheduled install. YIPPIE!

What? That sounds like a bunch of garbage they are feeding you.

What difference would it make if it was from Canton unless they use Moto software. An SA card is an SA card and a single M card should work.

Sending Fry an email is still a good idea, someone from his office will contact your area manager and you should get some results, but as far as I know M cards in this area are very, very hard to come by if in fact they even have them.

There are other TiVo owners who read this thread. Maybe one of them has an M card. I can't remember.

According to their web page, over 500 stores and something like 34,000 jobs.

Just wanted to post if anybody is looking for deals, they are having a liquidation sale.

http://www.circuitcity.com/closed.html

Yup. Going out next week to see what's still available at our local store. If I can pick up some DDR ram dirt cheap, I'm jumping all over that. Got like 4 computers here all with 512mb of the stuff that are just crawling along.

Recently on OTA 25.1 only---the sound either is not there, (with correct picture for 25.1) is something from another station called WCNX (with the correct picture for 25.1) on alternate #1 in my menu, or is the correct sound. When I receive the WCNX on alternate #1 if I select alternate #2 I get the correct sound, however if I change the channel then return to 25.1 I have to reset the menu to alternate #2 to get the correct sound track. All the other stations have "alternate audio" greyed out in my menu. This problem is only on 25.1 and not 25 analog, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, 25.9. Anybody know what is going on? I did a re-scan but the same thing happens.
JJK

For the few that have TiVo here, and for those who don't and wonder why I make such a fuss about it you can see their display at the CES.

They have added a new HD search feature and have changed the way TiVo comes back with it's search. You can even search for HD on YouTube.

nickdawg I know you and I have had some go arounds on this but I don't know if you truly understand the TiVo experience. One of the many things you rant about is lack of technology. Take a look here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xd6f88JIp4).

I'm not saying to everyone go buy a TiVo. I've already said if you're happy then fine, no need to spend extra money and there is no doubt TiVo will cause you to spend some extra money. Just have a look.

And fwiw, in the TiVo Forum people say that the cost of cable cards and TiVo itself will actually reduce the cost of your cable bill and therefore pay for itself. I don't know if that is true.

So that's what happened to Amy Winehouse! ;) She's shooting ads for Tivo now. And every time I see that Tivo puppet, I think of this (http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/893) video. I was just waiting for him to go apeshit on the Scientific Atlanta booth with a bat! :D:D

So that's what happened to Amy Winehouse! ;) She's shooting ads for Tivo now.

I have actually met Shanan. She's been TiVo's "public face" to subscribers for many years, and in person, she's much better looking than Ms. Winehouse. (And she's not recovering from drug use, to boot!)

Shame on you, nickdawg!

:D

Before hookbill asks, I met her at TC Con '04, I believe it was, in Las Vegas. She's a delightful lady in person.

I have actually met Shanan. She's been TiVo's "public face" to subscribers for many years, and in person, she's much better looking than Ms. Winehouse. (And she's not recovering from drug use, to boot!)

Shame on you, nickdawg!

:D

Before hookbill asks, I met her at TC Con '04, I believe it was, in Las Vegas. She's a delightful lady in person.

I don't even know who the heck Amy Winehouse is, I just thought nickdawg was on Space Mountain again. And nickdawg, the video was fun the first time. Do you pick up what I am putting down? Or as they say today, do you feel me?;):D

I dunno. I heard a few years back some "expert" on the weather who said that wind chill temperatures are not real, that they were made up by television. As I recall what was said basically was the air is what the temperature is, and yes the wind may feel colder to you but the temperature is still the same.
That's basically right. Wind Chill is fiction. TV weather people love it, though, because it lets them announce colder winter temperatures, which creates more drama, which helps draw in viewers and sell advertising.

By the time I was five, I had figured out that you got cold faster when the wind was blowing. The term "wind chill" hadn't been invented yet, but it didn't prevent anyone from understanding that wind would make you cold faster.

Nonetheless, if it's 35 degrees outside, the wind can blow as hard as it likes and water is still not going to freeze.

That's basically right. Wind Chill is fiction. TV weather people love it, though, because it lets them announce colder winter temperatures, which creates more drama, which helps draw in viewers and sell advertising.

By the time I was five, I had figured out that you got cold faster when the wind was blowing. The term "wind chill" hadn't been invented yet, but it didn't prevent anyone from understanding that wind would make you cold faster.

Nonetheless, if it's 35 degrees outside, the wind can blow as hard as it likes and water is still not going to freeze.

Thanks. That's a great way to explain it.

Jim, where have you been, you haven't posted in ages?

Wind chill was used by the Air Force in the Arctic regions and was based on how fast your flesh would freeze. Your body temp is 98.6 and it can maintain body temp pretty well except when it's -40. If there is no exposed skin your good to go for a while anyway. If your hands are exposed in -40 without wind it takes about 5 minutes of exposure for the average person to be in danger of frostbite. If the wind is blowing at 10 knots the time is one minute. Inanimate objects are at air temperature no matter how hard the wind blows. A living live body has to maintain body temp and if the wind is blowing hard enough the body cannot maintain its temperature. When the body temperature reaches about 80 your dead, and just think you have another 120 degrees to go before you reach -40, then your dead by 4 more times. Somebody? has revised the original Air Force chill index and the weather people are beating it to death. These are the things that you do when you have to be outside in -40 weather:
1......no cuts----they freeze first
2......double socks, double pants or "iron pants"
3......waterproof insulated boots
4......parka with fur collar to prevent eye freez-up
5......mittens for gloves---fingered gloves don't work.
6......sun glasses---sun glare on the snow is devastating
7......stay in house untill it warms up

I worked in Greenland, Iceland, NWT Canada, and Alaska for 10 years. I can elaborate on vehicle preparation also. And sled dogs really don't care how cold it is or how hard the wind blows, they just curl up and let it snow over them for protection from the wind and cold. Those dogs are really tough with hugely strong legs and feet and petting them is like petting a wire brush. They just stand around in that -40 weather like it's a walk in the park. There were a couple of times I saw the look in those dogs faces like "HHMMMM, he would make a nice sandwich"
JJK

Wind chill was used by the Air Force in the Arctic regions and was based on how fast your flesh would freeze. Your body temp is 98.6 and it can maintain body temp pretty well except when it's -40. If there is no exposed skin your good to go for a while anyway. If your hands are exposed in -40 without wind it takes about 5 minutes of exposure for the average person to be in danger of frostbite. If the wind is blowing at 10 knots the time is one minute. Inanimate objects are at air temperature no matter how hard the wind blows. A living live body has to maintain body temp and if the wind is blowing hard enough the body cannot maintain its temperature. When the body temperature reaches about 80 your dead, and just think you have another 120 degrees to go before you reach -40, then your dead by 4 more times. Somebody? has revised the original Air Force chill index and the weather people are beating it to death. These are the things that you do when you have to be outside in -40 weather:
1......no cuts----they freeze first
2......double socks, double pants or "iron pants"
3......waterproof insulated boots
4......parka with fur collar to prevent eye freez-up
5......mittens for gloves---fingered gloves don't work.
6......sun glasses---sun glare on the snow is devastating
7......stay in house untill it warms up

I worked in Greenland, Iceland, NWT Canada, and Alaska for 10 years. I can elaborate on vehicle preparation also. And sled dogs really don't care how cold it is or how hard the wind blows, they just curl up and let it snow over them for protection from the wind and cold. Those dogs are really tough with hugely strong legs and feet and petting them is like petting a wire brush. They just stand around in that -40 weather like it's a walk in the park.
JJK

Interesting! So wind plays a factor in super sub temperatures more then wind would effect you at 35 degrees. So are you saying that at lets say 6 degrees and wind blowing at 10-15 mph you would be subject to frost bite quicker then a 0 wind?

That's basically right. Wind Chill is fiction. TV weather people love it, though, because it lets them announce colder winter temperatures, which creates more drama, which helps draw in viewers and sell advertising. Such ignorance. The national weather service notes wind chills as well. Are they do ing it for the advertising bucks? :rolleyes:

By the time I was five, I had figured out that you got cold faster when the wind was blowing. The term "wind chill" hadn't been invented yet, but it didn't prevent anyone from understanding that wind would make you cold faster.

Nonetheless, if it's 35 degrees outside, the wind can blow as hard as it likes and water is still not going to freeze.And tomorrow Jim Gilliland will demonstrate that evolution is false because there are still monkeys. The "wind chill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill)" is a relative scale as to the air's relation with human skin. Please, follow some simple advice, if you are going to assert something, please be sure you know what you are talking about. Or maybe you should start telling us how the "heat index" is fake too and that a heat index of 215 degrees won't boil water.

I don't even know who the heck Amy Winehouse is, I just thought nickdawg was on Space Mountain again. And nickdawg, the video was fun the first time. Do you pick up what I am putting down? Or as they say today, do you feel me?;):D

As near as I can tell, she's a marginally talented pop music singer most known for her alleged drug abuse and a hit song "Rehab".

I couldn't tell you what her voice sounds like, and her music is (thankfully) not part of my life. I also don't know anything about her other than what filters into "mainstream" news reports, but from the pictures I've seen, she's UGLY.

Shanan is no Amy Winehouse, thank goodness.

Such ignorance. The national weather service notes wind chills as well. Are they do ing it for the advertising bucks? :rolleyes:

And tomorrow Jim Gilliland will demonstrate that evolution is false because there are still monkeys. The "wind chill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill)" is a relative scale as to the air's relation with human skin. Please, follow some simple advice, if you are going to assert something, please be sure you know what you are talking about. Or maybe you should start telling us how the "heat index" is fake too and that a heat index of 215 degrees won't boil water.

Dude, calm down.:)

This stuff is all kind of off topic. I mean this is the HDTV local reception thread. Weather itself has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

I started it, so it's my fault. Be kind to Jim, he's been around here for a while.

And doesn't water boil at 212 degrees?:D:D

As I mentioned my wife is recovering from elective surgery. So I set her up in the room with the 28 inch screen and the SA box. It's where she likes to watch TV sometimes.

She's a computer freak so she's got her laptop with her. I showed her how she could watch the programs we watch together usually on the computer using TiVo desktop. She was amazed at the pq on her computer.

I noticed she was watching HGTV in SD so in introduced her to HGTV HD (God, it really is better in HD- wife) and On Demand. She spotted Kitchen Nightmares on BBC so she's a happy camper entertainment wise.

This pleases me because it allowed me to watch the shows that I wasn't allowed to watch since she was upstairs. And it also allows me to dump shows I don't care about after the download, thus saving disk space and allowing me to watch football live.

That is, if she stops paging me every 15 minutes.:mad:

See nickdawg: Best of both worlds, SA and TiVo!;)

Such ignorance. The national weather service notes wind chills as well. Are they do ing it for the advertising bucks? :rolleyes:

And tomorrow Jim Gilliland will demonstrate that evolution is false because there are still monkeys. The "wind chill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill)" is a relative scale as to the air's relation with human skin. Please, follow some simple advice, if you are going to assert something, please be sure you know what you are talking about. Or maybe you should start telling us how the "heat index" is fake too and that a heat index of 215 degrees won't boil water.

Easy there, tiger. We can't let this place descend into chaos at the hands of newbies and almost-never posteds.

There's no room here for all this anarchy and chaos. That's MY job!! :p:p:p

Watch It, Sucka!!!
[IMGhttp://files.blog-city.com/files/J05/141414/p/f/aunt_esther.jpg[/IMG]

Easy there, tiger. We can't let this place descend into chaos at the hands of newbies and almost-never posteds.

Watch It, Sucka!!!
[IMGhttp://files.blog-city.com/files/J05/141414/p/f/aunt_esther.jpg[/IMG]

Not that I want to pick on yespage but I just checked. Water does boil at 212 degrees (http://whatscookingamerica.net/boilpoint.htm).

It's OK yespage, we like you still.

Hey nickdawg, did you copy that off that high quality Navigator HD DVR?:)

I don't even know who the heck Amy Winehouse is, I just thought nickdawg was on Space Mountain again. And nickdawg, the video was fun the first time. Do you pick up what I am putting down? Or as they say today, do you feel me?;):D

I hope not. Isn't that Mrs. Hookbill's job? :p:p:p;)

But anyway, that video confirmed why I won't get a Tivo. Did you hear the part where that suit was talking about that "new advanced search feature"(which I've had since last May on Navigator :p)? He said it only works on the SE and HD boxes. So if you have one of their older series 1 or 2 boxes, you're SOL. Sounds like Tivo takes planned obsolescence to the extreme, I've seen those non-HD Tivos at the local Best Buy when I was there a few months back. How nice, only giving the features to those who spend over $500 for their recorder. Compared to TWC, I get all the features(except DVR) on any STB, new or old. It may be slower on the older boxes, but it is not limited.

Some other issues I have, why the f would shows be sorted "by popularity"? I prefer the SA way, by the alphabet. I don't want shows listed by that, since what Tivo thinks is "popular" may not be to me. Let's say I'm looking for the CBS Evening News or CBS 19 News, I don't want that wench from "The Closer" listed first, since she is supposedly "popular".

Also, I don't like the flashy, pretty graphics. And all the pictures on screen. That must be a beast on the memory. How slow must that run in actual conditions? I disagree with OS that hog memory for the sake of pretty graphics(ala Vista!).

I'm also not "feeling" the online crap. The last thing I want to watch on my 50 inch 1080p TV is compressed to death, squeezed dry Utube videos. Some of those look bad enough on my computer, a 15 inch Dell flat panel. Plus, you trade Free VOD (like your wife likes) in favor of crap like Netflix and Amazon, services you have to pay for on top of the monthly cable and Tivo bills.

It all looks and sounds very nice. I guess that's the result of ad execs and suits who market it. But when you look at cost and practicality, it goes up in smoke. If I never even use VOD(for free), why pay for services? That also goes back to my fundamental gripe with TWC: I WANT LINEAR HD CHANNELS! I want to turn on the TV and see NEW, DIFFERENT programming on channels, not "clips" and a few episodes. I just want to watch "Monk", "Psych", "Burn Notice" and "Rescue Me". But I guess that's not happening here anytime soon:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:!!! But I know I'm in the fast lane to that in HD with the SA box, since I can guarantee that those new channels will be SDV.:D

Hey nickdawg, did you copy that off that high quality Navigator HD DVR?:)

No, but at least it would be digital on Navigator. All those channels under 100 would be coming in analog on Tivo:p:p!

Here we go again!!!

And BTW, thanks for the "heads up" on Ramsay on BBC. I love Kitchen Nightmares and Hell's Kitchen. Too bad they're showing the same American versions I've seen before.

And they're awesome on BBC, he actually says ****!!

OOPS, I guess I can't even say **** here. :o:o

What difference would it make if it was from Canton unless they use Moto software. An SA card is an SA card and a single M card should work.

Cable tv architecture is a complex thing. There could be separate controllers, databases, IP ranges, etc for different areas. Migrating a card across those boundaries might be a little more complex than it seems at first glance.

I just migrated my cell phone from one carrier to another. There's a similar set of complexities involved in this process, whihc can result in a number not being reachable from all areas at first. Or not working in all areas correctly for awhile.

I hope not. Isn't that Mrs. Hookbill's job? :p:p:p;)

But anyway, that video confirmed why I won't get a Tivo. Did you hear the part where that suit was talking about that "new advanced search feature"(which I've had since last May on Navigator :p)? He said it only works on the SE and HD boxes. So if you have one of their older series 1 or 2 boxes, you're SOL. Sounds like Tivo takes planned obsolescence to the extreme, I've seen those non-HD Tivos at the local Best Buy when I was there a few months back. How nice, only giving the features to those who spend over $500 for their recorder. Compared to TWC, I get all the features(except DVR) on any STB, new or old. It may be slower on the older boxes, but it is not limited.

OMG!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

The advanced search feature he was referring to was the ability to go OUTSIDE of your cable system and find HD programming, like at Amazon, Netflix, and YouTube.

Please, don't get a TiVo. It's too complicated for you. You'd never understand it.:rolleyes:

Cable tv architecture is a complex thing. There could be separate controllers, databases, IP ranges, etc for different areas. Migrating a card across those boundaries might be a little more complex than it seems at first glance.

I just migrated my cell phone from one carrier to another. There's a similar set of complexities involved in this process, whihc can result in a number not being reachable from all areas at first. Or not working in all areas correctly for awhile.

It's hard for me to argue something I will admit I don't fully understand. So you may be right. I'm trying to apply common sense to the cable industry.

Now let me find a nice brick wall to bash my head against. I'm still reeling from nickdawg.

Nobody answered my question of why OTA 25.1 is transmitting ""alternate Audio". What is alternate audio supposed to be used for? Sure looks cold outside maybe they are transmitting alternate audio for chill index information.
JJK

OMG!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

The advanced search feature he was referring to was the ability to go OUTSIDE of your cable system and find HD programming, like at Amazon, Netflix, and YouTube.

Please, don't get a TiVo. It's too complicated for you. You'd never understand it.:rolleyes:

HD on Youtube? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

You do know that Youtube is about 320x240 resolution? And HDTV is 1920x1080 or 1280x720? Youtube is not even as good as SD cable or FOX digital widescreen. Bit Torrents are also usually higher.

Besides, I DON'T want any extra crap cluttering my guide. I'm pissed enough because TWC includes VOD $hit in my search results.

I DESPISE seeing crap like "#1MD08/Jonas Bros, #2MD08:Soulja Boy, 01/01 S. Silverman cluttering the Search list. Keep that crap on the VOD channel.

And it's hardly "too complicated" for me. I just don't need that much hassle to watch TV. Basically, I turn it on and watch. That's what a TV is. I'd be scared if the TV ran my life that much. :eek::eek:

Nobody answered my question of why OTA 25.1 is transmitting ""alternate Audio". What is alternate audio supposed to be used for? Sure looks cold outside maybe they are transmitting alternate audio for chill index information.
JJK

It's the secondary audio channel. I'll bet it's Spanish.

HD on Youtube? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

You do know that Youtube is about 320x240 resolution? And HDTV is 1920x1080 or 1280x720? Youtube is not even as good as SD cable or FOX digital widescreen. Bit Torrents are also usually higher.

Besides, I DON'T want any extra crap cluttering my guide. I'm pissed enough because TWC includes VOD $hit in my search results.

I DESPISE seeing crap like "#1MD08/Jonas Bros, #2MD08:Soulja Boy, 01/01 S. Silverman cluttering the Search list. Keep that crap on the VOD channel.

And it's hardly "too complicated" for me. I just don't need that much hassle to watch TV. Basically, I turn it on and watch. That's what a TV is. I'd be scared if the TV ran my life that much. :eek::eek:

Geeze nickdawg, I don't want to insult you but come on you just can't be that.......aw, nevermind.

Why do I bother? If you go to YouTube you can watch it in HD IF your computer, like my Mac, is capable. Look for the HD button.

Edit: Some of it is HD, not all of it.

I've never seen a "HD" anything on Youtube. I watch quite a bit of it, and haven't seen that. And even if it is, I highly doubt it is as good as broadcast or cable HDTV.

I've seen the "HD":rolleyes: Full Episode Player on ABC.com, and it didn't look nowhere near as good as the ABC HD I get through WEWHD. HD, my ---!

Here's another one for you. I was just checking my DVR's to do list. In case you're not aware, Hell's Kitchen returns on 1/29.

I had to reschedule Big Love because of the football game. Go Steelers!

Such ignorance. The "wind chill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill)" is a relative scale as to the air's relation with human skin. Please, follow some simple advice, if you are going to assert something, please be sure you know what you are talking about. (Irrelevant red herrings snipped)
I know exactly how it's defined. It's an arbitrary and imprecise number.

Jim, where have you been, you haven't posted in ages?
I read through here every day. But I don't find the need to comment that often. Maybe I'm just too ignorant. :D;)

(Irrelevant red herrings snipped)
I know exactly how it's defined. It's an arbitrary and imprecise number. Actually, you said it was fiction. Not that it is a relative scale at which is used to help predict how long it will take for exposure to freeze skin. Go out in the cold with a wind chill of -35 degrees and see if your skin freezes in the time it'd take when it is -35 or at the air temperature of -10.

You want to say it is arbitrary and imprecise? Do you realize how much of science is based on similar types of equations?

Actually, you said it was fiction.
So what you're actually objecting to is my use of hyperbole to make a point. That's fine, be my guest. It doesn't change anything. I've already acknowledged the basic principle here - that the wind will cause warmer objects to cool faster. As I observed, most five-year-olds have figured that out. We don't need a pseudo-science term like "wind chill" to help us understand that. But if you really find it useful, that's OK with me.

So what you're actually objecting to is my use of hyperbole to make a point. That's fine, be my guest. It doesn't change anything. I've already acknowledged the basic principle here - that the wind will cause warmer objects to cool faster. As I observed, most five-year-olds have figured that out. We don't need a pseudo-science term like "wind chill" to help us understand that. But if you really find it useful, that's OK with me.
It is used to try and quantify it, not make people aware of the existence of 'wind makes people colder', rather know what threat the wind will be, such as in Northern Minnesota where the wind chill was dropping to as low as 60 below. They set this criteria to help people from dying, such as the homeless. You make it sound as if it is a meteorologist conspiracy to gain ratings.

Might as well complain about the Saffir-Simpson scale for hurricanes being arbitrary too.

Hookbill:
Alternate #1 is most of the time the correct English audio on 25.1 OTA. Sometimes they flop it to alternate $2 but the TV will always default to #1. When they flop it to alternate #2 alternate, #1 changes to WNCX (radio or TV station). The alternate audio on 25.1 should be greyed out as they are on all of the other channels--every one except 25.1. I also assumed that the alternate audio channels were supposed to be Spanish but on 25.1 they are not. Me thinks they know not what they do, but if they do they ain't tellin anybody.
JJK

The problem with the dramativization of the chill index by the weather people is the people think eventually that it is the real air temperature. It seems to be really "chic" to say 60 below rather than 0.
JJK

Trying to steer back on track, has there been any further word on the possible delay of the Digital Transition from February 19th?
The problem with the dramativization of the chill index by the weather people is the people think eventually that it is the real air temperature. It seems to be really "chic" to say 60 below rather than 0.
JJK
If it is on cable or local network, it is probably dramatized, whether it is politics, sports or weather.

Hookbill:
Alternate #1 is most of the time the correct English audio on 25.1 OTA. Sometimes they flop it to alternate $2 but the TV will always default to #1. When they flop it to alternate #2 alternate, #1 changes to WNCX (radio or TV station). The alternate audio on 25.1 should be greyed out as they are on all of the other channels--every one except 25.1. I also assumed that the alternate audio channels were supposed to be Spanish but on 25.1 they are not. Me thinks they know not what they do, but if they do they ain't tellin anybody.
JJK

OK, I just took a guess since no one answered the question.:o

Trying to steer back on track, has there been any further word on the possible delay of the Digital Transition from February 19th?

If it is on cable or local network, it is probably dramatized, whether it is politics, sports or weather.

It seems to me like a go on 2/19. Unless Obama issues an executive order. I think he has bigger fish to fry.

It seems to me like a go on 2/19. Unless Obama issues an executive order. I think he has bigger fish to fry.

Uhh, it's 2/17/09!! ;)

I've heard that the one bill in the House or Senate was rejected. That should end this issue once and for all. With 27 and less days until the transition, it would be foolish to FIGHT on this issue. Thanks to all the REAL issues out there affecting us, I don't think President Obama (:D:D:D) would dare touch this issue ahead of real issues that need attention.

Uhh, it's 2/17/09!! ;)

I've heard that the one bill in the House or Senate was rejected. That should end this issue once and for all. With 27 and less days until the transition, it would be foolish to FIGHT on this issue. Thanks to all the REAL issues out there affecting us, I don't think President Obama (:D:D:D) would dare touch this issue ahead of real issues that need attention.Well, millions of people losing access to television would not be such a small issue. Delaying the transition wouldn't cause much a problem at all.

Well, millions of people losing access to television would not be such a small issue. Delaying the transition wouldn't cause much a problem at all.

Are you kidding!!! There's already morons out there who cannot comprehend what is going to happen on 2/17/09. And now we're going to change the date? After over a year of telling people to be ready by 2/17/09 you do not change the date at the last minute, and definitely not when there are less than 30 days.

It will cause problems, problems to the people who are supposed to take over this bandwidth after the transition dates. Contracts have been made, it's stupid to change everything now. Also, I'm sure the TV stations are not thrilled about having to pay the costs of running TWO stations for another 4 or 5 months.

If you're "losing access to television" now, you have nobody to blame but YOURSELF!! It's not like the DTV transition just jumped out from behind the bushes and surprised us. It was known that this was coming and many had to take action to keep watching TV. If they didn't, honestly: F**K THEM!!!

And some act like it is some kind of unalienable "RIGHT" to watch TV. If you think that, you're sorely mistaken. Nobody is entitled to the right to watch TV. There's no need for the television industry to bend over and pander to morons who are oblivious to what is going on around them. There is no need to slow down progress because idiots will be left behind. Where would we be today if we delayed or stopped new technology or progress in the name of protecting the morons?

Now, I'm one who will almost never defend big business or industry. But in this case, I'm with them. Local broadcast stations have had to pay the bills to essentially operate TWO TV stations for almost ten years in many cases. They had to spend hundreds of thousands just to upgrade to digital transmission technology to broadcast OTA in digital. And on top of that, many also had to upgrade to HD broadcasting and local HD production, in an attempt to keep up with the times. And how much of a government subsidy did stations get for this? None. They had to makes these upgrades in order to comply with the law. So excuse me for not having pity on someone whining about dropping $60 on a converter box. :p:p:p

I'm playing a tiny violin right now...

Here it is. I remember discussing this elsewhere before and saving a list of all the costs that go along with the transition on the broadcast side:

ATSC television transmitter - $950,000

TV broadcast antenna (Price range from side to top mount)Antenna installation - $40,000-200,000

Transmission line cost with installation (1,500 ft) - $85,000

Tower, 1,500 ft, guyed with strobe lights (65 lb wind load -- ?" ice) - $1,800,000

Tower foundation - $200,000

Tower installation - $300,000

Test package, includes RF Analyzer, Transport Stream (TS) Analyzer, DTV Demod., power and A/V monitoring - $120,000

Frequency Reference System - $3,500

Digital or Dual System STL (hot standby w/changeover; 500 ft line, 8 ft antennas) - $150,000

Digital microwave interconnect (500 ft line, 6 ft antennas) - $70,000

STL Tower -- 100 ft, installed - $47,000

XMTR remote control - $25,000-35,000

Line dehydrator system - $3,000

AC Power installation - $25,000-30,000

Regulation & Surge suppression - $35,000

Ducting & forced air system - $10,000-25,000

Installation materials - miscellaneous: wire, strap - $10,000

Equipment racks, complete - $3,500

RF parts (patch panel, elbows) - $7,500-10,000

Directional couplers for power measurement - $7,500-10,000

XMTR Proof-of-Performance - $10,000

RF combiner for N+1 or N-1 - $50,000-75,000

Standby power generator and UPS - $25,000-100,000

That doesn't even include about a $1M investment in master control equipment

Here it is. I remember discussing this elsewhere before and saving a list of all the costs that go along with the transition on the broadcast side:

ATSC television transmitter - $950,000

TV broadcast antenna (Price range from side to top mount)Antenna installation - $40,000-200,000

Transmission line cost with installation (1,500 ft) - $85,000

Tower, 1,500 ft, guyed with strobe lights (65 lb wind load -- ?" ice) - $1,800,000

Tower foundation - $200,000

Tower installation - $300,000

Test package, includes RF Analyzer, Transport Stream (TS) Analyzer, DTV Demod., power and A/V monitoring - $120,000

Frequency Reference System - $3,500

Digital or Dual System STL (hot standby w/changeover; 500 ft line, 8 ft antennas) - $150,000

Digital microwave interconnect (500 ft line, 6 ft antennas) - $70,000

STL Tower -- 100 ft, installed - $47,000

XMTR remote control - $25,000-35,000

Line dehydrator system - $3,000

AC Power installation - $25,000-30,000

Regulation & Surge suppression - $35,000

Ducting & forced air system - $10,000-25,000

Installation materials - miscellaneous: wire, strap - $10,000

Equipment racks, complete - $3,500

RF parts (patch panel, elbows) - $7,500-10,000

Directional couplers for power measurement - $7,500-10,000

XMTR Proof-of-Performance - $10,000

RF combiner for N+1 or N-1 - $50,000-75,000

Standby power generator and UPS - $25,000-100,000

That doesn't even include about a $1M investment in master control equipment

ummm...nickdawg is right.:eek::eek::eek:

The fact that it would cost broadcasters so much, discussed tonight on WJW, probably will kill any idea of extending the deadline.

Unless.......Obama wants to make a big splash at the gate. That decision, IMHO, would not be a good one.

Uhh, it's 2/17/09!! ;)

I've heard that the one bill in the House or Senate was rejected. That should end this issue once and for all. With 27 and less days until the transition, it would be foolish to FIGHT on this issue. Thanks to all the REAL issues out there affecting us, I don't think President Obama (:D:D:D) would dare touch this issue ahead of real issues that need attention.

Wrong on this one. Democrats are going to try it again, starting tomorrow. Also discussed on WJW.

I still don't think it will go through.

Well, millions of people losing access to television would not be such a small issue. Delaying the transition wouldn't cause much a problem at all.

The entire state of Hawaii has already made the switch to digital. This happened on the 15th of January.

I don't know the thinking behind it but for whatever reason, HBO didn't do it in Dolby 5.1.

It was a beautiful spectacle, but I did see several sound drops and pixelation during the event, which I recorded via DVR. Did anyone see it live?

I have a thought... if the government decides to move the transition date to June, then couldn't the broadcasters just abandon their analog channel anyways? This has already occurred with WMFD and WNEO.

I don't know the thinking behind it but for whatever reason, HBO didn't do it in Dolby 5.1.

It was a beautiful spectacle, but I did see several sound drops and pixelation during the event, which I recorded via DVR. Did anyone see it live?

Nope. I canned HBO last month in favor of the HDTV Tier(for UHD), since Bill Maher is off until March.

But just because it wasn't in 5.1 doesn't mean it was not good. If it originated in 2/0, then it's good they kept it that way, rather than using that "fake 5.1".

I have a thought... if the government decides to move the transition date to June, then couldn't the broadcasters just abandon their analog channel anyways? This has already occurred with WMFD and WNEO.

Absolutely. One company already filed with the FCC, and I hear rumors that at least three more are considering it.

- Trip

I have a thought... if the government decides to move the transition date to June, then couldn't the broadcasters just abandon their analog channel anyways? This has already occurred with WMFD and WNEO.

The broadcasters have to file take the analog stations silent early. They just can't say "OK, we're done" and shut off analog, they have to have FCC approval, and a reason for doing so.

Both WMFD and WNEO cited various issues, including weather and availability of tower crews, in asking to transition early.

It doesn't sound like that'd be a hard case to make, frankly. And of course, one whole market and one entire state have already "gone early".

I think some markets should coordinate and do the previously scheduled 2/17/09 transition, even if it gets moved. They could say it would provide the FCC with more datapoints between February and June.

Meanwhile, the TV stations could stop this thing in its tracks, by proclaiming the extra cost to run two transmitters isn't budgeted, and announcing more job layoffs if the transition is moved. More bad job news is not what the new administration wants to walk into!

Absolutely. One company already filed with the FCC, and I hear rumors that at least three more are considering it.

- Trip

Trip, help me out here...which company/station/what are you talking about? :)

And at some point, does it become unnecessary to file with the FCC to take an analog station dark near the transition?

Trip, help me out here...which company/station/what are you talking about? :)

And at some point, does it become unnecessary to file with the FCC to take an analog station dark near the transition?

WVMH is the one that already filed. They own four stations in West Virginia. (WOWK, WVNS, WTRF, WBOY) Three of the four have to flash-cut.

I'm not going to share the three I heard, because I'm not sure that I should. But I'll say they're major owners.

- Trip

WVMH is the one that already filed. They own four stations in West Virginia. (WOWK, WVNS, WTRF, WBOY) Three of the four have to flash-cut.

Here's WTRF's:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101290229&formid=911&fac_num=6869


IN THE EVENT CONGRESS ENACTS LEGISLATION THAT WOULD DELAY THE CURRENT STATUTORY DTV TRANSITION DEADLINE OF FEBRUARY 17, 2009. THIS NOTIFICATION IS BEING FILED MORE THAN 30 DAYS IN ADVANCE OF FEBRUARY 17, 2009, THE DATE ON WHICH ANALOG OPERATION OF WTRF-TV WILL BE TERMINATED.


The application is dated Thursday 1/15.

Nope. I canned HBO last month in favor of the HDTV Tier(for UHD), since Bill Maher is off until March.

But just because it wasn't in 5.1 doesn't mean it was not good. If it originated in 2/0, then it's good they kept it that way, rather than using that "fake 5.1".

You could have watched it anyway. I posted and someone else confirmed that HBO was making it available to everyone.....even analog people.

You could have watched it anyway. I posted and someone else confirmed that HBO was making it available to everyone.....even analog people.

Little puffs of smoke just came out of my ear, hearing about the analog freeloaders!!:mad::mad::mad:

I didn't even check. I don't even look at those channels. Part of the reason why I canceled HBO once Bill Maher's season was over. I was paying for that crap and I never looked at it. At least now I get Monk, Psych, Burn Notice and Becker. Plus I recorded "Good Night and Good Luck" on HD Net Movies the other day.

Now I'm just torn about what to do when Bush*, Bill Maher starts next season. I'll prob. have to dump the HDTV Tier and get HBO again.

*I'm watching Countdown and Freudian slipped "Bush" in my comment. Sooo excited about tomorrow. I can't wait to see that new B.O. model turned on and finally kick that old GWB model to the curb. :D:D

Well, millions of people losing access to television would not be such a small issue. Delaying the transition wouldn't cause much a problem at all.

It means more months of the irritating DTV Transition ads! ;)

It's the same during election time. By election day I'm so FED UP with the barrage of ads for candidates and issues that I really don't care who/what wins! For the love of god........ just STOP BOTHERING ME! :p

Little puffs of smoke just came out of my ear, hearing about the analog freeloaders!!:mad::mad::mad:

I didn't even check. I don't even look at those channels. Part of the reason why I canceled HBO once Bill Maher's season was over. I was paying for that crap and I never looked at it. At least now I get Monk, Psych, Burn Notice and Becker. Plus I recorded "Good Night and Good Luck" on HD Net Movies the other day.

Now I'm just torn about what to do when Bush*, Bill Maher starts next season. I'll prob. have to dump the HDTV Tier and get HBO again.

*I'm watching Countdown and Freudian slipped "Bush" in my comment. Sooo excited about tomorrow. I can't wait to see that new B.O. model turned on and finally kick that old GWB model to the curb. :D:D

I got HBO on Sunday for two words: BIG LOVE. Great show, but after it ends I'll probably dump HBO again, unless HBO comes up with something better then things like "John from Cincinnati."

I'm also looking forward to todays events. I'm getting a new Blackberry Storm!

Oh, that Presidential thing....Yes, that's important too, I'm looking forward to that as well. I wish the GWB model well, but don't let the door smack your behind as you leave.;)

I'm not saying that delaying wouldn't have issues. It is that the reprecussions of delaying the DTV transition may not be anywhere near the truly bad signs we are seeing with the banking system right now... a total collapse. That said, I was just asking if there was any news on the possible delaying of the date. Meanwhile, the TV stations could stop this thing in its tracks, by proclaiming the extra cost to run two transmitters isn't budgeted, and announcing more job layoffs if the transition is moved. More bad job news is not what the new administration wants to walk into!The banking industry is on the verge of collapse. The DTV transition isn't the big pot on the stove.

Little puffs of smoke just came out of my ear, hearing about the analog freeloaders!!:mad::mad::mad:For a guy who is supposedly for Obama, you seem to sound very Republican-esque regarding television. Granted, the world of television and digital signals would be perfect if everyone was as clever as you.

I got HBO on Sunday for two words: BIG LOVE. Great show, but after it ends I'll probably dump HBO again, unless HBO comes up with something better then things like "John from Cincinnati."

I'm also looking forward to todays events. I'm getting a new Blackberry Storm!

Oh, that Presidential thing....Yes, that's important too, I'm looking forward to that as well. I wish the GWB model well, but don't let the door smack your behind as you leave.;)

"Big Love"? (sigh) (facepalm). Isn't that the Mormon show? Glad to see that Mitt Romney landed on his feet after the election. ;):rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D

Recently on OTA 25.1 only---the sound either is not there, (with correct picture for 25.1) is something from another station called WCNX (with the correct picture for 25.1) on alternate #1 in my menu, or is the correct sound. When I receive the WCNX on alternate #1 if I select alternate #2 I get the correct sound, however if I change the channel then return to 25.1 I have to reset the menu to alternate #2 to get the correct sound track. All the other stations have "alternate audio" greyed out in my menu. This problem is only on 25.1 and not 25 analog, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, 25.9. Anybody know what is going on? I did a re-scan but the same thing happens.
JJKWCNX? I bet what you are hearing is WNCX which is the station that ANALOG WVIZ-TV shares a tower with. I went to the FCC website, there is no such call letters on either the TV or FM database.

"Big Love"? (sigh) (facepalm). Isn't that the Mormon show? Glad to see that Mitt Romney landed on his feet after the election. ;):rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D

nickdawg, you are one big trip!

Don't hold back, speak your mind. Got a relative named Archie by any chance?;)

The banking industry is on the verge of collapse. The DTV transition isn't the big pot on the stove.

Well, screw it, then. I'm heading for the hills. No need to worry about anything else when the American economic system won't last through June!

I hope I can learn how to grow my own food.

I will remove the offending big box retailers name
My experience picking up my FCC coupon DTV box sunday
or how not to do marketing

With Circuit City dead you'll find this interesting



So I got to ****** in Montrose yesterday to use my DTV coupon and get a DTV converter box.

As usual met by greeter at door

Told him what I wanted

He said those are at customer service

I asked if they had them displayed

No!

So I walk 10 ft over by customer service

Ask what brands they have

Only have the Apex

So I decide I dont wanna drive around all day looking for the Zenith I really wanted

So it takes like 10 minutes to ring up a simple cash sale with the coupon during which time they are staring at me like I'm some sort
of moron. No opportunity to browse anything in store and a general attitude that I was some low life peon since I wanted an over the air DTV converter

I will remove the offending big box retailers name
My experience picking up my FCC coupon DTV box sunday
or how not to do marketing

With Circuit City dead you'll find this interesting



So I got to ****** in Montrose yesterday to use my DTV coupon and get a DTV converter box.

As usual met by greeter at door

Told him what I wanted

He said those are at customer service

I asked if they had them displayed

No!

So I walk 10 ft over by customer service

Ask what brands they have

Only have the Apex

So I decide I dont wanna drive around all day looking for the Zenith I really wanted

So it takes like 10 minutes to ring up a simple cash sale with the coupon during which time they are staring at me like I'm some sort
of moron. No opportunity to browse anything in store and a general attitude that I was some low life peon since I wanted an over the air DTV converter

Let me guess! Radio Shack?

I wanted a Zenith too but all they had was one brand.

Not RS
one of the big two
wont say which
to me it was significant that their handling meant I spent no time looking at stuff I could buy , just 15 minutes standing at customer service counter

Nothing political just noticing. I've had the TV on all day and the referrence people make about him being a rock star are just so true!

I honestly have not heard screaming like this since The Beatles, in 1964.

Not RS
one of the big two
wont say which
to me it was significant that their handling meant I spent no time looking at stuff I could buy , just 15 minutes standing at customer service counter

Big Two? Well, I would guess Best Buy since they arn't the store they use to be when they first opened.

My second guess is HH Gregg. I gotta be right about one of those.

Why not just tell us? Wasn't it yespage who said that thing about cliff hangers?:)

Wal Mart has greeters. You should have purchased it on line, better selection and prices are comparable or better than retail stores. And you wouldn't have to waste your time checking out at customer service!

nickdawg, you are one big trip!

Do what now? ;)

- Trip

nickdawg, you are one big trip!

Don't hold back, speak your mind. Got a relative named Archie by any chance?;)

OK. I squeeze in a quick rant about why Cleveland TV is a toilet. NBC News ended coverage at 5pm. WKYC went to news, WFMJ went into Oprah. OK. CBS News coverage continues. WKBN kept CBS News coverage. The Black Eye on the Tiffany Network know as WOIO went into local news. Or at least that crap that could easily be shamed by a high school production they pass off as a newscast. FOX also has local news at 5. WEWS continued ABC News coverage, until abruptly ending it at 5:05 PM for Power Of 5 Chief Douche bag Mark Johnson to do the weather report. :mad::mad::mad:

What is so stupid about this is, last time I checked, the Inauguration was in Washington DC, NOT Cleveland. There's a live parade I'm watching on CNN analog right now:(. I don't give a f**king, flying, rat's ASS about where people are watching the Inauguration in Cleveland, what they think about it or any other thing that has to do with Cleveland. I don't care about your "exclusive reporter" live in Washington, I don't care about your fluff pieces, I don't give a flying f**k about your website FOX!!! This is a NATIONAL event and that's what I want to see. It is completely beyond me why these self-absorbed jackasses do not understand that no one cares about them. Nobody cares about Cleveland. Even the people in NE Ohio don't give a s**t.

So, I turned to cable and I am not looking back. It's a damn shame that the only HD coverage of this is from those four channels and that they are also the only choice for those watching OTA DTV.

There's a live parade I'm watching on CNN analog right now.
CNN is in HD on Dish Network, and probably DirecTV too. Heck even the friggin' Weather Channel is in HD! Tell TWC to get with it. Don't blame the locals, they loose a ton of advertizing dollars when the regular programming gets preempted.

BTW: I was at work whre all we have is analog cable. I could see that CNN was using HD cameras by the quality of the crowd shots. Even down-rezzed into SD and analog an HD source improves the ocverall picture quality.

We don't all have Dish Network (shudders) or Directv. :p

As far as I can see, it looks like crap! On ABC it was 16:9 with a small bug. On CNN, there's tow sidebars(since CNN is a 4:3 channel). On top of that, the bottom of the screen is wasted with a box o' useless crap. Plus, the top part of the screen is wasted with a split screen and an obnoxious bug. Just awful.

CNN.com is streaming it LIVE in 16:9 and crap free(other than a LIVE bug and a smaller CNN bug). The online stream looks better than my TV. I'd watch that on my TV screen, but then I couldn't use the computer. (sigh) :(

Michael P 2341:
Actually the radio station was on the bawdy side---so I listened to that while watching the 25.1 video track.
JJK

We don't all have Dish Network (shudders) or Directv. :p

As far as I can see, it looks like crap! On ABC it was 16:9 with a small bug. On CNN, there's tow sidebars(since CNN is a 4:3 channel). On top of that, the bottom of the screen is wasted with a box o' useless crap. Plus, the top part of the screen is wasted with a split screen and an obnoxious bug. Just awful.

CNN.com is streaming it LIVE in 16:9 and crap free(other than a LIVE bug and a smaller CNN bug). The online stream looks better than my TV. I'd watch that on my TV screen, but then I couldn't use the computer. (sigh) :(

I would find it hard to believe that in real life you complain as much as you do here.

Does every comment have to be a rant or a complaint? HD sucks. Networks suck. Life sucks.

I enjoyed the broadcast in crystal clear HD with Katie Courac. She kept her mouth shut and everyone else just screamed.

I finally found something I like: MSNBC in analog. I tolerate it because I LOVE Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews. I have three hours of them ahead of me and analog will be tolerable now.

This was from another mailing list.....

From a friend at NBC:

***********************
There were five HD pool camera feeds, fifteen NBC HD camera feeds, two
switched HD pool feeds, eleven 16x9 SD camera feeds (including three
wireless cams), an SD camera feed from Atlanta, another SD feed from Los
Angeles, and an HD camera on the Plaza in New York.

The whole thing was controlled through Studio 1A in New York with
Washington's Control F as backup. In addition, there were SD feeds for
MSNBC's 'Morning Joe', CNBC, and Telemundo routed to their respective
control rooms.

This was from another mailing list.....

From a friend at NBC:

***********************
There were five HD pool camera feeds, fifteen NBC HD camera feeds, two
switched HD pool feeds, eleven 16x9 SD camera feeds (including three
wireless cams), an SD camera feed from Atlanta, another SD feed from Los
Angeles, and an HD camera on the Plaza in New York.

The whole thing was controlled through Studio 1A in New York with
Washington's Control F as backup. In addition, there were SD feeds for
MSNBC's 'Morning Joe', CNBC, and Telemundo routed to their respective
control rooms.

I was watching NBC's coverage today and the picture quality was absolutely stunning on some of the shots. I'd love to know more of the behind-the-scenes details.

Hello All:

Just a quick update. I now have a "M" cable card installed in my TivoHD and am a happy camper. My e-mail to Steve Fry resulted in being contacted on Sunday to schedule service with a Time Warner tech for a Tuesday evening install. The service I received since my e-mail has been fantastic and I now get to enjoy learning my Tivo HD unit. Once again, thanks to this community I am able to learn and resolve issues that transpire.

Hello All:

Just a quick update. I now have a "M" cable card installed in my TivoHD and am a happy camper. My e-mail to Steve Fry resulted in being contacted on Sunday to schedule service with a Time Warner tech for a Tuesday evening install. The service I received since my e-mail has been fantastic and I now get to enjoy learning my Tivo HD unit. Once again, thanks to this community I am able to learn and resolve issues that transpire.

Glad to hear that! The "Steve Fry Card" as we have come to know it here works well.

And welcome to the TiVolution, if this is your first time. Enjoy.:)

I will remove the offending big box retailers name
My experience picking up my FCC coupon DTV box sunday
or how not to do marketing

......................................
Only have the Apex

So I decide I dont wanna drive around all day looking for the Zenith I really wanted.....................

I was in several BB stores just prior too and just after the first of the year and in each case they had DTV boxes galore. They were just stacked on the floor with big “DTV BOXES HERE” and “GET READY FOR DTV” signs clearly displayed. There were at least two makes offered as the boxes were clearly different, though I really didn’t pay very close attention to such details as I have no need for the converters.

All I can guess is either the BB store you chose is poorly managed or the stock of such boxes is getting thin and such retailers don’t want to acquire much more stock of an item that will not be in high demand in another month. Once everyone who needs such boxes have obtained them there will be very little demand going forward.

Just a guess. :)