It was HHGregg

Anyone else in the NE Ohio area having issues with your DirecTV signal?

For 3 days now, I haven't been able to access any of the MPEG4 or HD stations. Only some of the SD channels come in.

I've never had an issue like this with D*, but all the snow and frigid temperatures seem to have wrecked havock on my satellite.

Here's a photo my wife found. Seems appropriate with the conversations around here lately.:)

Glad to hear that! The "Steve Fry Card" as we have come to know it here works well.

And welcome to the TiVolution, if this is your first time. Enjoy.:)

Oh crap!! They're a cult, trying to take over the world. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

And I think I know who the leader is:

HER (http://celebpulp.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/amy_winehouse2.jpg)

:D

Anyone else in the NE Ohio area having issues with your DirecTV signal?

For 3 days now, I haven't been able to access any of the MPEG4 or HD stations. Only some of the SD channels come in.

I've never had an issue like this with D*, but all the snow and frigid temperatures seem to have wrecked havock on my satellite.

Mine has been fine. I've been enjoying their fabulous exclusive coverage of the Australian Open tennis tournament. They have seven HD channels of coverage. The first channel is a split screen that shows six different matches at once. You can use the directional arrows on your remote and select which of the six you want to hear the audio. Below each match is listed who is playing and the current score. If you hit the select button it takes you to the dedicated HD channel for that match. They also have a button programmed on the remote that brings up a menu that allows you to look at things like the draws, the schedule of matches for the day by court, and scores of all completed matches. And the best part - no extra charge for all this. Pretty cool.

Oh crap!! They're a cult, trying to take over the world. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

And I think I know who the leader is:

HER (http://celebpulp.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/amy_winehouse2.jpg)

:D

Sigh. Do I have to defend Shanan *again*??? :D

As for the Steve Fry card, I hope the TWCNEO boss is tracking all this, and using the information to improve service/responsiveness to customers who don't know his direct E-Mail address...

Sigh. Do I have to defend Shanan *again*??? :D

As for the Steve Fry card, I hope the TWCNEO boss is tracking all this, and using the information to improve service/responsiveness to customers who don't know his direct E-Mail address...

I really don't think overall that the techs are bad. They just arn't well trained with cable cards and it seems that if you're a TiVo owner that you have to yell to get noticed.

There really isn't any reason for me to use the Fry card anymore. I have a direct contact at headend, and I also have the phone number and name of the manager of the Concord office if I have an issue where I need a tech to come out. I've never used that, just my headend contact. And I try not to bug her too much. Basically if customer service misses after two calls, then she's my "go to person".

It was HHGregg

Understandable. I've never felt all that comfortable there. I can vouch for Best Buy having stacks of Converter Boxes. According to bestbuy.com, They have Apex, Insignia, and a Samsung HDTV Converter ($180)

I've been in that con artist place exactly one time about 10 years ago and I haven't gone back since.

I was purchasing a 100 DVD carousel player (waste of money). They used car sales tatics. I ended up at Best Buy.

Anyone else in the NE Ohio area having issues with your DirecTV signal?

For 3 days now, I haven't been able to access any of the MPEG4 or HD stations. Only some of the SD channels come in.

I've never had an issue like this with D*, but all the snow and frigid temperatures seem to have wrecked havock on my satellite.
We've had some issues - when the temps were near their lows we started to lose certain HD stations: CNBC, NickHD & Cartoon Network HD were the ones I defiinitely noticed. They came back and then went out again over the last couple days. Most of the other HD fare has been working both MPEG2 and MPEG4 stuff so I was presuming it was one satellite (or part of one) that was flaking - likely due to the snow/ice or just the cold.

We decided to wait until it warms up tomorrow to see if reception returns on the problematic channels...

I really don't think overall that the techs are bad. They just arn't well trained with cable cards and it seems that if you're a TiVo owner that you have to yell to get noticed.


I'm just noting that all sorts of questions/problems seem to get resolved by contacting Mr. Fry's office directly, but I'm hoping he's compiling information so people don't have to go to such lengths to get things done right in the normal system.

OK, those with OTA tuners...are you also missing WUAB-DT? I'm getting no signal at all, and have for the past day or two. I normally get a easily lockable OTA signal.

It's present on TWC 6, though I haven't checked HD 406.

I guess I don't watch the channel enough to notice that it's gone!

Getting it just fine here.
JJK

OK, those with OTA tuners...are you also missing WUAB-DT? I'm getting no signal at all, and have for the past day or two. I normally get a easily lockable OTA signal.

It's present on TWC 6, though I haven't checked HD 406.

I guess I don't watch the channel enough to notice that it's gone!
As of 1:30pm today, WUAB-DT (and the "Tube" message on 43-2) are coming in at full strength.

It was HHGregg

Oh gawd, I HATE HH Gregg. Oh how I wish that place would bite the dust like Dirty Sh*tty (aka Circuit City) just did. HH Gregg is far worse than CC. One opened up a few years back in my area (Akron) by the mall. It's a crap hole. I was once in there looking for a cheap, small flat screen(desperately wanting to replace the CRT in my kitchen). Anyway, total car salesman ripoff clip joint! The commercials say they have "the best trained sales associates", THEY LIED!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad: This assbasket tells me that for $XX more I can get a bigger TV. I don't want a 27 or 32 inch TV, it's going in the kitchen in the corner. I want the (I think) 20 inch screen. But they're conveniently out of those. Then he has the nerve to say they are going to be getting a shipment of 1000, no that's not a typo, that is what he said, of the cheap TVs. Like I am supposed to believe a rat hole store will be getting 1000 of ONE model of unit. There's a stack limit on those boxes to prevent damage, so 1000 crates would fill the warehouse, with ONE product!!

Long story short, never went back, never will. For now, I'll either suffer through analog cable or get a OTA converter from a legitimate retailer.

Who knows, since our economy is in the toilet, maybe there will be some good sales and I'll find an affordable small flatscreen. Then I could justify ordering a third HDTV cable box to power that new TV. :D:D

I never did talk to the salesmen that much..(Belden Village Store)..The place didnt "feel" right for some reason..I did get half off on the GE Superradio AM/FM (The long-distance portable one)..The only thing I ever bought there..

I've purchased several items at HHGregg at good prices with no problems. The trick there, as it is with Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack etc., is to do your own prior research, know what you want when you get there, buy it and quickly exit. The sales staff, with a few exceptions, at all these stores are poorly trained and will only confuse or irritate you. It's a sad commentary but the truth, I'm afraid.

I've purchased several items at HHGregg at good prices with no problems. The trick there, as it is with Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack etc., is to do your own prior research, know what you want when you get there, buy it and quickly exit. The sales staff, with a few exceptions, at all these stores are poorly trained and will only confuse or irritate you. It's a sad commentary but the truth, I'm afraid.

Good point, rluyster..I usually try to do my own research before buying anything..

Yeah, that's the thing. They advertise this one cheap TV. Once you get there and don't find it, asking someone where it is turns into a sales pitch to get something even more expensive. And they have the most annoying people. You really can't even "browse" and look at features without someone bugging you. "leave me alone!" I (and all of us here) probably know more about HDTVs than what is written in a sales pitch manual. :D

I'm just noting that all sorts of questions/problems seem to get resolved by contacting Mr. Fry's office directly, but I'm hoping he's compiling information so people don't have to go to such lengths to get things done right in the normal system.

Inundated, I don't have to tell you that when you see someone post there probably is 20 people with the same problem. Out of that more then likely most of them get resolved.

Rarely do you go into any electronics forum without seeing a mountain of complaints. Except in the Mac Forum. Happy people there. I don't post much.:D;)

MAC people are different. They expect a MAC to last ten years, even if it is 40 generations behind and you can't get the new stuff to work.
JJK

MAC :rolleyes:

(facepalm)

MAC people are different. They expect a MAC to last ten years, even if it is 40 generations behind and you can't get the new stuff to work.
JJK

You obviously have not looked into Macs. What you say use to be so, but is no longer. My Mac can run anything Windows can run, because not only do I have Leopard 10.6 for my operating system, I also have Vista installed.

I use Windows to run 2 programs: TiVo playlist, and Microsoft Money 07. That's it. I use either Mac's programs or 3rd party software (like Firefox) for everything else. And the only reason I use Firefox is that it has a little "house" on the toolbar to the home page. Safari, on Mac, is just as good if not faster then Firefox. Safari doesn't perform as well on PC.

On my PC all my music was on iTunes.

I'm not saying Mac is better, but I don't have to buy all kinds of software or install it to keep it secure. My Windows runs with my Mac through a program called Parallel which allows me to run Windows at the same time as Mac.

I got the best of both worlds.:)

I've had very good service in the past at two locally owned stores here in the Cleveland area that have often been willing to match or beat prices at BB and the other big-box stores on TV's and appliances--B&B Appliance and Snow Bros. You should check out similar places in your area!

BTW, I'm not a salesperson and have never worked for any appliance or big-box store. I'm just saying that sometimes there are good alternatives to buying bigbox or online.

This will come as a surprise. I like Circuit City much, much better then Best Buy.

Probably the main reason is location, and with CC closing I will lose not only my closest Box store. Now I will have to drive at least 10 miles to get to one.:mad:

The internet is there. And another idea is Target. They have good stuff in there at reasonable prices.

That's probably where I will start buying stuff from. And if they don't have it's www.etc.

I never did talk to the salesmen that much..(Belden Village Store)..The place didnt "feel" right for some reason..I did get half off on the GE Superradio AM/FM (The long-distance portable one)..The only thing I ever bought there..

Which chain are you talking about again? I need to get another one of those...

Some of you guys have been complaining that TWCNEO is too slow to migrate channels from analog to digital.

It was announced today that they have been fined big time for doing just that.

tiny url dot com http://*******.com/bzcapc
http://*******.com/bzcapc

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — The Federal Communications Commission is fining nine cable TV operators for attempting to thwart its investigation of a practice in which analog channels were transferred to a more expensive digital tier, leaving some customers without access.

In a letter to Congressional leaders Monday, on his last full day in office, FCC Chairman Kevin Martin said cable operators had exhibited "contempt" for the commission by not providing full information about their practices, as ordered.

"The cable operators' refusal to provide the commission full information has delayed our investigation and inhibited our ability to examine allegations" stemming from nearly 600 complaints, he told the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.

The cable operators receiving fines were Comcast Corp., Time Warner Cable Inc., Cox Communications Inc., Charter Communications Inc., Cablevision Systems Corp., Bright House Networks, Harron Communications LP, Midcontinent Communications Inc. and Suddenlink Communications Inc.

The fines range from $7,500 to $25,000 — totaling about $500,000 — and some companies also were told to issue refunds to customers within 90 days for failing to give a 30-day notice about the channel changes.

In October, the FCC asked 13 cable operators to provide more information on their practice of migrating channels to digital. The agency was concerned that customers who subscribe to less expensive tiers of analog service, such as basic cable, will have access to fewer channels because some have been moved to the digital lineup, even as those subscribers' bills continued to rise.

Cable companies want to move analog channels to digital to free up bandwidth so they have more room to add high-definition channels and other content. It is not related to the national switch to digital broadcasting....

I've had very good service in the past at two locally owned stores here in the Cleveland area that have often been willing to match or beat prices at BB and the other big-box stores on TV's and appliances--B&B Appliance and Snow Bros. You should check out similar places in your area!


I'm wondering if there's an Akron area equivalent of B&B that has a similar reputation. I've heard good things about 'em, but I might not want to hoof it up to Middleburg Heights.

This will come as a surprise. I like Circuit City much, much better then Best Buy.

Probably the main reason is location, and with CC closing I will lose not only my closest Box store. Now I will have to drive at least 10 miles to get to one.:mad:

Your CC was one of those nice, fancy new ones.

Hookbill:
Well I was funnin a little bit but according to my MAC friends Bootcamp might run your Vista stuff a little faster than Parallels.
JJK

Where can I get the free 3D glasses for viewing the 3D commercials during the Super Bowl? I don't see them in the grocery stores.

Where can I get the free 3D glasses for viewing the 3D commercials during the Super Bowl? I don't see them in the grocery stores.

Which system are they using? Red/blue anaglyph, polarized, or Pulfrich (one eye darker than the other)? I have spare Pulfrich glasses but it's not likely that they're using Pulfrich this time.

**EDIT** It's the color anaglyph (http://www.studiodaily.com/blog/?p=816) system, this time using blue/amber lenses. Look for the glasses in retail outlets that carry Sobe water. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNK3vdyYdGw)

It's the color anaglyph (http://www.studiodaily.com/blog/?p=816) system, this time using blue/amber lenses. Look for the glasses in retail outlets that carry Sobe water. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNK3vdyYdGw)

and make a stop in the aspirin section on your way out<g>.

and make a stop in the aspirin section on your way out<g>.

Indeed. I've never been a fan of the color anaglyph system, but it's one of the few techniques that can survive the limitations of the NTSC system. It will probably have a little more depth on an HD screen, and the effect will probably be more noticeable on LCDs and plasmas than rear-projection sets.

Hookbill:
Well I was funnin a little bit but according to my MAC friends Bootcamp might run your Vista stuff a little faster than Parallels.
JJK

ROFLOL.:D

Thanks, but bootcamp comes with Mac. To run Windows, you gotta reboot. It doesn't work simultaneously.

There's another product out there. Perhaps that is what they were talking about, but if you seen how it works, you'd understand.

That's probably VMWare Fusion... similar to parallels. Both good programs if you want to run your OS's simultaneously.

Which chain are you talking about again? I need to get another one of those...


HH Gregg..The one I got was a couple of years ago, basically open box..Was $44.95..I got it for $21.95

That's probably VMWare Fusion... similar to parallels. Both good programs if you want to run your OS's simultaneously.

Yep, that's the stuff. Definitely not boot camp.

FWIW the way boot camp works is it takes a partition of your hard drive and runs Windows on it. The problem with that is it removes available disk space that can be used for Mac virtual memory, it also needs to be reboot to access. Parallel and VMWare Fusion do not require this. I keep mine running in cohesive mode and I actually have a Windows bar at the bottom of the computer, just above the Mac Deck. And no reboot required, it allows you to run Mac programs with your windows, i.e. I'll balance my check booth with I.E. explorer and Money, but I'll used the Adobe Reader as the source for downloading the actual statements.

HH Gregg..The one I got was a couple of years ago, basically open box..Was $44.95..I got it for $21.95

Oh. So much for going out and looking for such a deal today! :D

I have one downstairs, but it's a bit flaky after years of use. If I had any skill doing so, I could probably clean it out and fix some of the quirks.

I've had very good service in the past at two locally owned stores here in the Cleveland area that have often been willing to match or beat prices at BB and the other big-box stores on TV's and appliances--B&B Appliance and Snow Bros. You should check out similar places in your area!

BTW, I'm not a salesperson and have never worked for any appliance or big-box store. I'm just saying that sometimes there are good alternatives to buying bigbox or online.

+1 for both B&B and Snow. Such small operators can't carry the number of brands and variety like the CC's and BB's, but the sales people are much better informed at these local co's.

HH Gregg has also never carried the variety and product line depth like CC's and BB's either, which explains why the OP found only one model DTV box available. ;)

Those of you with HBO On Demand and Showtime On Demand, do you get that free if you subscribe to the regular HBO and Showtime services? In Erie County, they are trying to get us to pay extra for the On Demand service??

Those of you with HBO On Demand and Showtime On Demand, do you get that free if you subscribe to the regular HBO and Showtime services? In Erie County, they are trying to get us to pay extra for the On Demand service??

On WOW Cable the VOD's are included per subscription to each premium ch. Numerous other general VOD's are included in the digital tier pkgs. I dunno about TWC.

Those of you with HBO On Demand and Showtime On Demand, do you get that free if you subscribe to the regular HBO and Showtime services? In Erie County, they are trying to get us to pay extra for the On Demand service??

On TWCNEO, yes they are free if you subscribe to the pay version of each of these. If you don't, there are other On Demand programs that are free (e.g., BBC America, A&E, Nat Geographic), and also including a small amount of HD material.

On TWCNEO, yes they are free if you subscribe to the pay version of each of these. If you don't, there are other On Demand programs that are free (e.g., BBC America, A&E, Nat Geographic), and also including a small amount of HD material.

Ok, thanks. They FINALLY did our realignment this week, and I guess they got the HBO and Showtime OD's wrong. I'll have to call them.

Hookbill:
Well I was funnin a little bit but according to my MAC friends Bootcamp might run your Vista stuff a little faster than Parallels.
JJK

Re Read your post. I didn't get it the first time.

I did use bootcamp originally, but I can't say as to whether or not it was faster.

The big difference is Parallel runs a virtual machine as opposed to bootcamp which as I mentioned earlier uses a partition of the disk drive designated for Windows and runs a real Vista.

Sorry for laughing. But rebooting anything is always slower and for two programs it just isn't worth it.

Anybody with a steerable antenna able to pick up WNEO-DT in Salem now at higher power?

Where can I get the free 3D glasses for viewing the 3D commercials during the Super Bowl? I don't see them in the grocery stores.

I got mine yesterday at the new Giant Eagle behind Parmatown (Day Drive). They had a box full of them in the beverage isle.

Anybody with a steerable antenna able to pick up WNEO-DT in Salem now at higher power?

This doesn't answer your question but I've noted that I can now receive them with a good signal on a bedroom TV's indoor antenna that couldn't lock them in before. I've always received a strong signal on the outdoor antenna.

Anybody with a steerable antenna able to pick up WNEO-DT in Salem now at higher power?

I don't have an outdoor antenna. But I was able to lock onto the signal in Akron with an indoor Silver Sensor pointed toward Salem. Before the power increase, I wasn't able to get any picture. This is quite a surprise, because I'm near the bottom of the Cuyahoga Valley and yet I still was able to get a picture.

My Sony HD TV will not pick up 89.1 (our local PBS) when I scan QAM channels. I can view the channel if I enter it, but the TV won't let me add it individually. I have to scan to add any channels, and then it doesn't show 89.1. Any ideas how to get 89.1 added?

I don't have an outdoor antenna. But I was able to lock onto the signal in Akron with an indoor Silver Sensor pointed toward Salem. Before the power increase, I wasn't able to get any picture. This is quite a surprise, because I'm near the bottom of the Cuyahoga Valley and yet I still was able to get a picture.
Wow! That is pretty impressive. I'll try and see if I can get a likewise performance, but being at the bottom of the valley, I'd guess it'd be near impossible for the signal to get to my home.

I just ran an update scan on my one digital ota box. I picked up some new stuff, looks like some religious channel 17.1.2.3.4 and WUAB is now coming in good, but I still can't get a strong signal from WOIO or WKYC. That's using a Phillips indoor antenna with an east facing window.

My Sony HD TV will not pick up 89.1 (our local PBS) when I scan QAM channels. I can view the channel if I enter it, but the TV won't let me add it individually. I have to scan to add any channels, and then it doesn't show 89.1. Any ideas how to get 89.1 added?

A couple of possibilities come to mind -

Low RF level on that frequency. The set might be having trouble locking to it. Are there any splitters you can eliminate to bring up the level?

Firmware glitches - I've heard of a "missing channels" issue with Sony. Make sure your set is running the latest version of firmware.

I heard on Fox News tonight that the transfer from analog to digital now is most likely to be delayed. A bi-partisan measure has been made to delay the transfer until June. The payment for the cost to broadcasters is going to be covered by the FCC.

That means you and I guys! I don't know about you but I don't like paying for some stupid person's procrastination.

I heard on Fox News tonight that the transfer from analog to digital now is most likely to be delayed. A bi-partisan measure has been made to delay the transfer until June. The payment for the cost to broadcasters is going to be covered by the FCC.

That means you and I guys! I don't know about you but I don't like paying for some stupid person's procrastination.

FOX? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

When I hear it elsewhere, I'll believe it!

For those of you wondering about the weather subchannel during superbowl, this from WKYC engineering:


The WeatherPlus channel will remain at it's current bandwidth during the Super Bowl broadcast. It is only using about 2 to 3 Mbits of the available 19.3 Mbits.

The WeatherPlus channel will remain at it's current bandwidth during the Super Bowl broadcast. It is only using about 2 to 3 Mbits of the available 19.3 Mbits.

"only" using 2 to 3 Mbits. :rolleyes:

That, paired with NBC's generally awful HD PQ (remember the Olympics?) means I'm not expecting a good show.

And WTF? Since when did NBC get the Super Bowl? Are they trying to pretend they are a real network now? ;) What, is the CW going to show the Super Bowl next year? :D

I was really hoping this was ABC's year. ABC has the best PQ of all the local stations. CBS is worst, FOX is next with their pre-starved HD, then WKYC's NBC.

NBC replaced their network distribution system back in November and many viewers in many markets reported improved PQ. It should not be like the Olympics (which were so bad I could tell it on a converter box on a 13" TV!).

- Trip

The NFL rotates the SB to their group of broadcasters. 2010 is CBS, 2011 is Fox, 2012 is NBC again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_broadcasters

Personally my ratings for football on my 50" 1080p plasma are:

1 - CBS via DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket 1080i
2 - CBS
3 - NBC, NFL Network
4 - three way tie for the 720p toilet between Fox, ABC, ESPN

Sorry, that main 50 yard line long shot of a football game looks like crap in 720p (unless you have a smaller 720p TV and sit far away enough, then it's not as bad)

NBC replaced their network distribution system back in November and many viewers in many markets reported improved PQ. It should not be like the Olympics (which were so bad I could tell it on a converter box on a 13" TV!).

- Trip

That's good news. I remember hearing something about a new system on the Olympics threads. That's pretty bad if you can even see it on a NTSC TV. Usually "flaws" can be hidden a bit on the conversion.

But here on TWC digital cable box, many times digital SD channel 3 looked better than HD channel 403. It's weird, the network SD feed actually looked better. Even on other programming, sometimes the NBC network analog feed looks better. Plus, this is going to be the last Super Bowl with ANY separate network analog feed. NBC better get their stuff in order!! :D

The NFL rotates the SB to their group of broadcasters. 2010 is CBS, 2011 is Fox, 2012 is NBC again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_broadcasters

Personally my ratings for football on my 50" 1080p plasma are:

1 - CBS via DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket 1080i
2 - CBS
3 - NBC, NFL Network
4 - three way tie for the 720p toilet between Fox, ABC, ESPN

Sorry, that main 50 yard line long shot of a football game looks like crap in 720p (unless you have a smaller 720p TV and sit far away enough, then it's not as bad)

I was thinking this was the ABC year. Since CBS was in 07, FOX in 08. Looks like ABC is out of it for awhile.

I've never seen D* HD, but I'd guess that would have to be better than a local affiliate, especially one with subchannels. But I have to disagree in HORROR at CBS as #2. While CBS network may look nice, if your source is WOIO, it is as Gordon Ramsay says, "sh*t". I've even seen blocking and blurring on non-sports programming(like CSI Miami). And WOIO's analog upconvert programming looks bad too. It's even visible on SD channel 4 now that TWC has been using digital/HD feeds as a source for WOIO.

OTOH, I love ABC. I even found they had the best presentation on Inauguration day coverage. Plus, primetime and sports programming looks good as well.

FOX is the toilet. The line between HD and "FOX Digital Widescreen" is blurred there often.

That's good news. I remember hearing something about a new system on the Olympics threads. That's pretty bad if you can even see it on a NTSC TV. Usually "flaws" can be hidden a bit on the conversion.

Yes, it was that bad. Especially the graphics, that NBC Olympics logo that'd wipe across the screen, that'd pixelate every time it ran. It was awful.

Hopefully they've fixed it now, I haven't had reason to watch any network programming on NBC since to know.

- Trip

I was thinking this was the ABC year. Since CBS was in 07, FOX in 08. Looks like ABC is out of it for awhile.

I've never seen D* HD, but I'd guess that would have to be better than a local affiliate, especially one with subchannels. But I have to disagree in HORROR at CBS as #2. While CBS network may look nice, if your source is WOIO, it is as Gordon Ramsay says, "sh*t". I've even seen blocking and blurring on non-sports programming(like CSI Miami). And WOIO's analog upconvert programming looks bad too. It's even visible on SD channel 4 now that TWC has been using digital/HD feeds as a source for WOIO.

OTOH, I love ABC. I even found they had the best presentation on Inauguration day coverage. Plus, primetime and sports programming looks good as well.

FOX is the toilet. The line between HD and "FOX Digital Widescreen" is blurred there often.

I'll confirm the macroblocking and pixelation you see on WOIO. I've seen it too. However compared to what it looks like on our digital WOIO it's beautiful.

nickdawg, one of the things about SA machines is they are poor at recording, something I never realized it until I got my DVR. The pixelation I see on WOIO has definitely increased but I wonder if you and I see the same amount because what I see is very quick and not that annoying.

What about your HD television. Is it 720p native? If so that could be why ABC appears so far superior to you then NBC, which is 1080i.

I still don't understand what you talk about when you mention your digital locals. I have no idea if they are truly digital or analog upgrade. To be honest with you the amount of ranting you've been doing lately has come to appoint where I'm thinking "all this guy does now is complain," and that my friend is not much fun. I can't see where you draw your lines.'

I still enjoy your posting from time to time but come on, maybe you can stop all this constant whining. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall you b##ching and moaning on every post.

And just to let you know, I wasn't clear on my source for the television transition. That was WJW Fox 8 I heard it from and I don't know if you like any of them, I believe you take shots at them all.

And in that case you may be justified.;)

On the subject of the recording quality with the SA boxes, you have to realise that the MPEG2 encoder chips in these boxes are nowhere near as high as quality as say a properly configured software encoder running non-realtime or a 4/5 figure professional live encoder at the headend or the distribution facilities of any of the big name networks. Not to mention that really none of these encoders fare well when you have tons of analog noise and interference introduced from the lengths of coax between your node and your set-top. This noise also introduces the ability for macroblocking and compression artifacts as the encoder begins to waste data on the noise rather than the actual picture.

From the way it sounds, all of you guys up in the cleveland area and the old Adelphia and Comcast systems, you still get fed analog channels on positions 2-99 and the set-top has to do all the legwork to encode that to mpeg2 and store on the drive. I honestly am not surprised if you have quality problems if you are being fed analog feeds still. Here in the legacy area, we get fed digital feeds all across the board including 2-99 and while there's the occasional MINOR artifacting, it's crystal clear. The only way I know for sure I'm watching cable is because the image processor in my tv does a lousy scaling job compared to dvd's. There's a noticable difference in the PQ after being upscaled.

Wow! That is pretty impressive. I'll try and see if I can get a likewise performance, but being at the bottom of the valley, I'd guess it'd be near impossible for the signal to get to my home.

I'm actually up a bit from Andrew, and I haven't locked WNEO-DT yet since it went full power. I AM getting the same kind of "not quite lockable" signal out of it that I get out of WKBN-DT. The Youngstown market signals may be bouncing down to Andrew off of something. :D

To be fair, I really haven't tried hard to get WNEO, considering that I could get WEAO-DT with a paperclip antenna. :D

I just ran an update scan on my one digital ota box. I picked up some new stuff, looks like some religious channel 17.1.2.3.4 and WUAB is now coming in good, but I still can't get a strong signal from WOIO or WKYC. That's using a Phillips indoor antenna with an east facing window.

I'm still having occasional WUAB problems, for whatever reason. It bounces in and out like no other local station, even with the antenna pointed in the right direction for the others.

17.1-5 is WDLI-DT Canton, a TBN (religious) station as you suspect. It was owned by Jim Bakker's PTL Club back in day, right after it threw in the towel on secular independent programming. "DLI" stands for the former primary owner after Bakker/PTL, David Livingston International (DL was another televangelist - I think TBN bought all of his stations).

Despite being licensed to Canton, WDLI's digital stick is just up the hill from Rolling Acres Mall in the Akron area. The other Canton-licensed DT, WOAC/67's digital side, is in Brimfield in Portage County, off I-76 and Rt. 43, across 43 from WNIR Radio.

I heard on Fox News tonight that the transfer from analog to digital now is most likely to be delayed. A bi-partisan measure has been made to delay the transfer until June. The payment for the cost to broadcasters is going to be covered by the FCC.

I'm getting too lazy to find a story I saw earlier, but it appears that is the case, and that they're going to vote next week. It sounds like one change may be made, that stations will be able to shut down analog on February 17th voluntarily.

How this all happens, in practice, remains to be seen. Will some markets "band together" and stick with the 17th? Remember, we've had one full market (Wilmington, NC) and one state (Hawaii) do it, not to mention the stations going off early analog already around here.

I was thinking this was the ABC year. Since CBS was in 07, FOX in 08. Looks like ABC is out of it for awhile.

IIRC, ABC is now out of the Super Bowl rotation entirely, when they moved "Monday Night Football" to ESPN. I don't think they get a "turn" even though they owned by the same company as ESPN, and donkeys and porcine creatures will soar airborne before the NFL lets the Super Bowl run on cable, even a station as widely distributed as ESPN...

I'll confirm the macroblocking and pixelation you see on WOIO. I've seen it too. However compared to what it looks like on our digital WOIO it's beautiful.

nickdawg, one of the things about SA machines is they are poor at recording, something I never realized it until I got my DVR. The pixelation I see on WOIO has definitely increased but I wonder if you and I see the same amount because what I see is very quick and not that annoying.

What about your HD television. Is it 720p native? If so that could be why ABC appears so far superior to you then NBC, which is 1080i.

I still don't understand what you talk about when you mention your digital locals. I have no idea if they are truly digital or analog upgrade. To be honest with you the amount of ranting you've been doing lately has come to appoint where I'm thinking "all this guy does now is complain," and that my friend is not much fun. I can't see where you draw your lines.'

I still enjoy your posting from time to time but come on, maybe you can stop all this constant whining. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall you b##ching and moaning on every post.

And just to let you know, I wasn't clear on my source for the television transition. That was WJW Fox 8 I heard it from and I don't know if you like any of them, I believe you take shots at them all.

And in that case you may be justified.;)

It's not pointless ranting, some of the channels are really messed up. I was watching WOIO SDTV the other night(around Action news at 6/Katie Couric) and the audio was dropping out and the picture freezing. Then it went to flashing screen and plain yellow screen(never seen that before). I thought maybe it was the 4250HD box (I thought of hook and SA :p). I check a TV with no box, same thing on analog. 404 WOIO HD is fine. Same with 19 through analog OTA. So whatever kind of conversion TWC is doing to make HDTV digital SD or analog, something is wrong with their encoding, which may also explain the poor PQ and the darkness of the picture. And it's only WOIO. WJW, WBNX, WNEO, WVIZ, WUAB, WDLI are all taken from digital OTA sources and they all work fine. Something's gotta be wrong between TWC's head end and our TVs.

Unless different areas of the same TWC system are compressing channels more or less, the pixelation should be the same, since it is all coming from the same source. I see the same thing, it is quick, but enough to be annoying. Although nowhere near as bad as the Olympics broadcast. Rabbit Ears is right about the Olympic logo. It was cringeworthy.

What do you mean by "digital WOIO"? SDTV? Because that channel looks far worse than WOIO HD.

On the subject of the recording quality with the SA boxes, you have to realise that the MPEG2 encoder chips in these boxes are nowhere near as high as quality as say a properly configured software encoder running non-realtime or a 4/5 figure professional live encoder at the headend or the distribution facilities of any of the big name networks. Not to mention that really none of these encoders fare well when you have tons of analog noise and interference introduced from the lengths of coax between your node and your set-top. This noise also introduces the ability for macroblocking and compression artifacts as the encoder begins to waste data on the noise rather than the actual picture.

Excellent point!!!:)


From the way it sounds, all of you guys up in the cleveland area and the old Adelphia and Comcast systems, you still get fed analog channels on positions 2-99 and the set-top has to do all the legwork to encode that to mpeg2 and store on the drive. I honestly am not surprised if you have quality problems if you are being fed analog feeds still. Here in the legacy area, we get fed digital feeds all across the board including 2-99 and while there's the occasional MINOR artifacting, it's crystal clear. The only way I know for sure I'm watching cable is because the image processor in my tv does a lousy scaling job compared to dvd's. There's a noticable difference in the PQ after being upscaled.

Actually if that were true I'd probably wouldn't gripe as much. The problem is that when we were Adelphia for some reason still unknown to me they took channels WOIO, WKYC, WEWS, and WJW and converted them to digital. So what we see here is digital but not true digital like what you see. We see analog converted to digital on those stations. The rest are as you say, still analog.

At one time we could still see the analog versions of these channels on 803, 804, 805, and 808 but then they did the lineup change so that option is out.

However your post is crystal clear and I thank you for that. I never could figure out what exactly you guys had down there and I am very, very jealous! Maybe I should write Mr. Fry and yell "Foul" but then they would put you guys on analog and everyone in the legacy area would hate me!:eek:;)

It's not pointless ranting, some of the channels are really messed up. I was watching WOIO SDTV the other night(around Action news at 6/Katie Couric) and the audio was dropping out and the picture freezing. Then it went to flashing screen and plain yellow screen(never seen that before). I thought maybe it was the 4250HD box (I thought of hook and SA :p). I check a TV with no box, same thing on analog. 404 WOIO HD is fine. Same with 19 through analog OTA. So whatever kind of conversion TWC is doing to make HDTV digital SD or analog, something is wrong with their encoding, which may also explain the poor PQ and the darkness of the picture. And it's only WOIO. WJW, WBNX, WNEO, WVIZ, WUAB, WDLI are all taken from digital OTA sources and they all work fine. Something's gotta be wrong between TWC's head end and our TVs.

Unless different areas of the same TWC system are compressing channels more or less, the pixelation should be the same, since it is all coming from the same source. I see the same thing, it is quick, but enough to be annoying. Although nowhere near as bad as the Olympics broadcast. Rabbit Ears is right about the Olympic logo. It was cringeworthy.

What do you mean by "digital WOIO"? SDTV? Because that channel looks far worse than WOIO HD.

OK, not pointlesss but confusing. And as far as different pixelation, read the post from Vchat, he hits the nail on the head.

Also he clearly explained to me what you had in the legacy area. You actually had said the same thing at one time however with all the different post you've made it got murky as to what you really had in legacy land.

I heard on Fox News tonight that the transfer from analog to digital now is most likely to be delayed. A bi-partisan measure has been made to delay the transfer until June. The payment for the cost to broadcasters is going to be covered by the FCC.

That means you and I guys! I don't know about you but I don't like paying for some stupid person's procrastination.

Ooooooooooooh JOY. :rolleyes:

I'm still having occasional WUAB problems, for whatever reason. It bounces in and out like no other local station, even with the antenna pointed in the right direction for the others.
I find WUAB to have a very strong signal, so it could be a strong main signal and a strong multipath signal cancelling each other out. You may want to try rotating your antenna away from the tower (30-45 degrees or so) to see if the main signal locks in better.

[QUOTE=nickdawg;15637493]It's not pointless ranting, some of the channels are really messed up....... Something's gotta be wrong between TWC's head end and our TVs.
QUOTE]

nickdawg,
Perhaps that B&W 13" Emerson is not performing up to your specs! :D (btw-you've yet to reveal to hookbill what you're viewing your OTA digital signal on) Oh yeah, and while we're at it....we're supposed to be the experts when it comes to understanding local digital broadcast signals :cool:
so:
HD(1080i, 720p) programming is sent via a station's DIGITAL signal. It's up to your set/converter box to spit out it's native display (1080i, 720p /[16x9] or
480p, 480i /[4x3] ). Thus, there is NO WOIO-HD. There is only WOIO-DT.

I find WUAB to have a very strong signal, so it could be a strong main signal and a strong multipath signal cancelling each other out. You may want to try rotating your antenna away from the tower (30-45 degrees or so) to see if the main signal locks in better.

I only have indoor antennas, and I've moved them around six ways to Sunday. I can't find a "sweet spot" that doesn't drop out significantly with WUAB, either upstairs or downstairs.

The thing is...this has only been in the past couple of weeks or so. Until then, I got WUAB just as easily as all the other Parma antenna farm stations. It's always been one of my strongest signals. It was difficult to STOP receiving it. Until now.

Maybe this is atmospheric. Or maybe they're doing some work on or near the WUAB tower? I'd say that, but I seem to be the only one having trouble with it, and if I remember right, WUAB has no transition-related work needed. If I watched the channel for any period of time, and had no cable, I'd be upset...but for now, it's just "huh, why is it suddenly so hard to get?"

Every other local station that I normally receive is fine. I can't get WKYC or WVIZ, but neither can most people until they get that tower up.

The problem is that when we were Adelphia for some reason still unknown to me they took channels WOIO, WKYC, WEWS, and WJW and converted them to digital. So what we see here is digital but not true digital like what you see. We see analog converted to digital on those stations. The rest are as you say, still analog.

That's really odd but I guess it's another case where they just haven't gotten around to updating their systems up there with more pertinent tasks on their todo list at the moment.

I honestly don't know exactly how we are receiving our locals here either but I'd assume it's either fiber fed or downconverted from the OTA DT transmitters as I haven't once seen any telltale signs of analog origin over the years.

By any chance do the duplicate channels in the 100+ area do analog too or do they do digital? Ever since they did the channel lineup redo, I believe every single one of the 2-99 channels including locals are now duplicated in the 100+ area. Here though they are simply the same QAM/PID as the 2-99 positions but I am really curious if they do those in digital in your area or if the box just grabs the analog channel on those higher positions as well?

I say give it a little time. As has been seen, TW seems to be trying to get the different headends including Comcast/Adelphia territory up to speed and matching the legacy areas in order to accomodate SDV for starters. Cross your fingers and they may have you guys switched to a 100% digital system around the time they get SDV rolling.

P.S. If I can, I'll attempt to get some clips recorded from the 8300HDC on the SD locals for comparison this evening.

I honestly don't know exactly how we are receiving our locals here either but I'd assume it's either fiber fed or downconverted from the OTA DT transmitters as I haven't once seen any telltale signs of analog origin over the years.

WEWS and WKYC are fiber feeds, as they are still using the analog feeds on cable. I did a comparison, the same bugs/graphics are on WEWS/WKYC OTA analog and on cable. Plus, they were immune from the DTV tests. It is obvious that WEWS is still sending an analog SD feed to TWC since a digital/HD downconversion would mean a clean screen on ABC programming(since ABC does not put ads/crap on their HD network feed). Also, it is easy to tell that WKYC is still sending an analog feed to TWC since NBC programming is still shown in letterbox. If it were taken from the digital feed, all programming would be 4:3 on the SD channel(which is why every station's bug has migrated towards the 'middle' of the screen).

WJW is taken from the DT OTA feed. On FOX programming, the "FOX" bug is missing, since FOX does not put a network bug on any network programming on the digital feed. Only the analog, which you can still see on OTA analog. Plus, on shows like "House", you can see part of that "FOX HD" bug that appears after commercial breaks. Except on a CRT you only see the "FO" part of it. I like it because I record the cartoons on WJW SDTV and now I get a 100% bug free picture.

WOIO is easy to tell that a digital OTA feed is being used, since WOIO HD Does not have the time/temperature bug over the "19 Action News" bug. The time is only seen on the analog channel. If you're not seeing the time over the 19 news bug, then TWC is using digital OTA.

WUAB is also a digital OTA capture. On "Two and a Half Men" you can see the vertical blanking lines on the top of the screen on WUAB HD. If you look closely on channel 6, on a TV that doesn't have much overscan, you can also see the the white flickering. It is not present on the analog version of the channel.

WBNX is obvious, the picture has drastically improved. Before, you could tell it was a very bad analog OTA source, since there was ghosting and lines in the picture.

WNEO, since channel 49 OTA shows 16:9 programming letterbox. On WNEO HD, letterbox programming is "Expanded" to almost fit the screen and you can see the same skinny black bars at the top/bottom on WNEO SD on TWC.



By any chance do the duplicate channels in the 100+ area do analog too or do they do digital? Ever since they did the channel lineup redo, I believe every single one of the 2-99 channels including locals are now duplicated in the 100+ area. Here though they are simply the same QAM/PID as the 2-99 positions but I am really curious if they do those in digital in your area or if the box just grabs the analog channel on those higher positions as well?

I assume it is done the same way. If TWC had these channels available in Digital, they would be used on the under 100 positions as well. But if they are only available in analog, then the analog channels are mapped to the over 100 locations.

I say give it a little time. As has been seen, TW seems to be trying to get the different headends including Comcast/Adelphia territory up to speed and matching the legacy areas in order to accomodate SDV for starters. Cross your fingers and they may have you guys switched to a 100% digital system around the time they get SDV rolling.

P.S. If I can, I'll attempt to get some clips recorded from the 8300HDC on the SD locals for comparison this evening.

My guess is that making the analog channels digital is at the bottom of the priority list. Right now, their main concern is SDV. Digital versions of the under 100 channels are not necessary for SDV, since everything converted to SDV already exists in digital.

And good news about SDV, there are even more SDV channels enabled here. I saw a message about a "free preview" of the NBA subscription channels this week. So as I was checking those out, I decided to look at the diagnostics screen and almost all of the NBA pay channels are SDV. Also, all of the NHL channels and all of the ESPN PPV channels in the 700s are SDV. This is great news, since TWC must be serious about SDV to make the over $100 sports pay channels SDV. Sure, they are less watched channels, but TWC would be hearing alot of screaming from subscribers if these channels did not work. I'll start working on another "list" of deployed SDV channels. The shopping channels in the 180s are also SDV.

It is inexcusable that we are not seeing new HD channels yet.

That's really odd but I guess it's another case where they just haven't gotten around to updating their systems up there with more pertinent tasks on their todo list at the moment.

At the time WBNX was not digital, nor was it in HD so Adelphia did not include them on the "converted digital" upgrade. Just thought I would mention that, because when TW did include WBNX on their HD list they never offered the digital version (wisely, I might add) of that channel.

I'm quite sure of what I speak as far as the transmission of these channels to us. How TW get's their broadcast, I have no idea. Most people seem to be very confident it comes in through a direct feed of some sort.

By any chance do the duplicate channels in the 100+ area do analog too or do they do digital? Ever since they did the channel lineup redo, I believe every single one of the 2-99 channels including locals are now duplicated in the 100+ area. Here though they are simply the same QAM/PID as the 2-99 positions but I am really curious if they do those in digital in your area or if the box just grabs the analog channel on those higher positions as well?

As nickdawg stated in the post above and I can confirm, they are mirror transmissions of the analog feed. No channel in the analog line up is digitally simulcast except the channels I mentioned in my previous post, and that wouldn't be a simulcast any longer.

I say give it a little time. As has been seen, TW seems to be trying to get the different headends including Comcast/Adelphia territory up to speed and matching the legacy areas in order to accomodate SDV for starters. Cross your fingers and they may have you guys switched to a 100% digital system around the time they get SDV rolling.

As much as I would like to see that, I'm skeptical. Let's face it, the original TW area is much smaller then the old Adelphia plus Comcast area. And I don't have any idea what the ex Comcast people are getting (except perhaps the shaft:))

P.S. If I can, I'll attempt to get some clips recorded from the 8300HDC on the SD locals for comparison this evening.

It's odd that nickdawg complains so much about WOIO SD in digital. I see it as a horrible channel to watch via analog, which is why I always thought he had it wrong. He has told us in the past however that he get's a Dolby 2.0 signal so it has to be digital or else he would get what I see which is PCM 48 on my sound system.

It is obvious that WEWS is still sending an analog SD feed to TWC since a digital/HD downconversion would mean a clean screen on ABC programming(since ABC does not put ads/crap on their HD network feed). Also, it is easy to tell that WKYC is still sending an analog feed to TWC since NBC programming is still shown in letterbox. If it were taken from the digital feed, all programming would be 4:3 on the SD channel(which is why every station's bug has migrated towards the 'middle' of the screen).

Honestly this all means nothing to the subject at hand. First off, there's nothing to say whether cable or sat providers MUST distribute either letterboxed or centercut programming in SD lineups regardless of the moved station bugs. And like has been stated, we really have no idea how the channel feeds are getting to TW. Could either be the OTA DT broadcasts and TW is choosing whether to centercut or letterbox them, could be fiber fed and the stations are sending out separate HD and SD feeds tailored for distribution, who knows.

As much as I would like to see that, I'm skeptical. Let's face it, the original TW area is much smaller then the old Adelphia plus Comcast area. And I don't have any idea what the ex Comcast people are getting (except perhaps the shaft:))

Thinking about it from all angles, it'd be pretty backwards thinking and stupid to continue to keep you guys behind the curve for all eternity when they're eventually at some point going to go 100% digital, are pushing digital services constantly, and the rest of their NEO footprint has had this perfected 100% digital (on the set-tops anyways) system going for a number of years now. We all know TWCNEO is pretty lackluster these days, but I doubt they're stupid.

Anyways, got some screencaps and a video up here:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1864/ss1sw4.th.png (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss1sw4.png)
WFMJ

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3717/ss7cl5.th.png (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss7cl5.png)
WOIO

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6121/ss2nq1.th.png (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss2nq1.png)
WEWS

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6956/ss3uj5.th.png (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss3uj5.png)
WKBN

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2135/ss4rq3.th.png (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss4rq3.png)
WYTV

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7918/ss6os7.th.png (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss6os7.png)
WYFX

(Video currently uploading)

On an additional note here: During the process of getting these screencaps, the box has been hooked up through probably the worst wiring job ever consisting of probably 4 cascaded splitters and some old RG59 in spots. It's bad enough that the connection directly to my analog tv tuner in the PC here has a ****-ton of noise and channels 2-13 are the worst out of all of them to the point of even being noticable on my SD CRT TV which does a good job of hiding the noise on other channels.

Some of the channels wouldn't even come in in this setup including WKYC (ch3-cable) and most of the basic non-locals. All of which indicates it is coming in digitally since at least with analog I would be getting a picture, but the noise would be horrendous.

Honestly this all means nothing to the subject at hand. First off, there's nothing to say whether cable or sat providers MUST distribute either letterboxed or centercut programming in SD lineups regardless of the moved station bugs. And like has been stated, we really have no idea how the channel feeds are getting to TW. Could either be the OTA DT broadcasts and TW is choosing whether to centercut or letterbox them, could be fiber fed and the stations are sending out separate HD and SD feeds tailored for distribution, who knows.


Yes it does. If a cable/satellite provider is passing a downconversion of a HDTV source, it would be shown in 4:3. That screencap of WFMJ was letterbox and so is WKYC. So obviously TWC is being fed a separate SD and HD feed from the source. With both WEWS and WKYC, the feed on TWC stayed EXACTLY the same on the DTV test day. The only difference was that through OTA the DTV test message was visible. Once the DTV test ended, WKYC and WEWS remained on the air through TWC uninterrupted. There was even a special informational crawl about the DTV transition running on WKYC SD only. It was on OTA and through TWC. It was not on HD.

Yes it does. If a cable/satellite provider is passing a downconversion of a HDTV source, it would be shown in 4:3. That screencap of WFMJ was letterbox and so is WKYC. So obviously TWC is being fed a separate SD and HD feed from the source. With both WEWS and WKYC, the feed on TWC stayed EXACTLY the same on the DTV test day. The only difference was that through OTA the DTV test message was visible. Once the DTV test ended, WKYC and WEWS remained on the air through TWC uninterrupted. There was even a special informational crawl about the DTV transition running on WKYC SD only. It was on OTA and through TWC. It was not on HD.

Well, yeah. THAT bit is obvious. But from all the complaining and bickering going on, it's sounded like you guys were just getting the worst end of the deal and having the Analog OTA stuff fed to your headends and either distributed directly to you or encoded to mpeg2 THEN distributed (the latter is obviously not the case currently.)

Well, yeah. THAT bit is obvious. But from all the complaining and bickering going on, it's sounded like you guys were just getting the worst end of the deal and having the Analog OTA stuff fed to your headends and either distributed directly to you or encoded to mpeg2 THEN distributed.

We are getting analog fed to the head end on WKYC and WEWS. You can tell just by watching that the PQ on WKYC is significantly less than on WJW. On WKYC, if you're watching "3" on a HDTV, you can notice that the letterbox bars on NBC programming appears to be a whitish/gray color, unlike the black bars on the left and right of the screen. Also, WEWS is victim to the same thing(where dark scenes look hazy and dirty gray). I have no doubt it has something to do with the fact that changing an analog source to digital somehow messes with the picture. I'm watching WJW SDTV right now and it is absolutely beautiful. I chose SD over HD, since the stupid affiliate bug(in the lower right corner) is entirely cut off the screen. A "flip back and forth" comparison shows that the PQ is about the same, both are very clear and colors look "right", especially on the news at 10.

However, with WKYC/WEWS, there is a night and day difference between 5 and 405, even on SD programming. Shows like "Wife Swap" and "Jimmy Kimmel" that are SD only look better on WEWHD than on WEWS standard definition.

Aside from TWC discussion, I made another nice discovery today. It appears that WVIZ has the ability to record/timeshift HDTV programming in HD resolutions. I recorded this week's episode of "Nature" today. On WVIZ at 8:30 AM, it was in 16:9 HDTV. At 4:00 PM on WNEO it was SDTV letterbox, expanded to almost fill the 16:9 screen. Plus it looked awful(as any stretched/zoomed program looks).

Attached is a list of the current channels. There are about forty live channels and almost twenty "test channels".

Attached is a list of the current channels. There are about forty live channels and almost twenty "test channels".

When you talk about 40 channels, that sounds impressive but what you have to keep in mind is these are all digital channels. Now if you have 40 analog channels, hey, that's saving bandwith.

40 digital channels really isn't that much, and it certainly doesn't mean, and not that you said this, it will be replaced by 40 HD channels.

Guys, I'm telling you that your neighbors to the North are holding you back. Had TWC not acquired Adelphia and Comcast you probably would have that big HD line up. But the reality is until we all get on one page, all this testing and what you see is just speculation. Exciting, for sure, but no one knows where exactly this is going. We do know that eventually we will all have SDV and we do now know it isn't going to be legacy area first.

I think the point when we can really start to get excited is if you see they are testing some new HD channels. Then we will know it's close.

I'm still saying fall this year. I'm willing to put 100.00 virtual bucks on this. Any takers?;):D

I'm still saying fall this year. I'm willing to put 100.00 virtual bucks on this. Any takers?;):D

NO! March it is. Maybe new HD channels in April. :D:D:D

You're missing the big picture. Since November(when SDV first was activated here), this is what has happened. In the article, Jasso said they are working on upgrading other areas. My guess is that this will be coming to an area near you soon. I assume they are working behind the scenes right now.

And for the record, I think the direction TWC is taking is total BULL F**KING S**T. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: Now that I've got that off my chest, what pisses me off is that if they can pass this crap through in SDV, that means that the bandwidth is open and endless. If you can put MUN2 through in SDV, you can put USA HD through in SDV.

NO! March it is. Maybe new HD channels in April. :D:D:D

You're missing the big picture. Since November(when SDV first was activated here), this is what has happened. In the article, Jasso said they are working on upgrading other areas. My guess is that this will be coming to an area near you soon. I assume they are working behind the scenes right now.



nickdawg, it will not happen in March. Now I'm not going to jump on Jasso, call him a liar or anything like that, I believe his intentions are good. He threw something out there, but realistically I don't see how they are going to do it by March.

So we're on for the 100.00 virtual bet?;) If at anytime in March activation SDV goes on everywhere, because that's what Mr. Jasso said, I will humbly come in here and say "nickdawg is smart. I am dumb. I now pay him 100.00 virtual. I should never doubt nickdawg."

Now if it happens between now and Sept. 21, neither of us wins. If it happens during the fall, before 12/22 I win.

And if doesn't happen by then, we all lose!:mad::mad::mad:

Now if it happens between now and Sept. 21, neither of us wins. If it happens during the fall, before 12/22 I win.

And if doesn't happen by then, we all lose!:mad::mad::mad:

Correction: if it doesn't happen before Sept. 21, WE ALL LOSE!!

Actually, we all lose if it doesn't happen by March or April.

Oh what the hell, we've already lost a LONG time ago. We're the biggest losers of all. WE suck. We never even had a chance to begin with.

To keep things true to the stinking hellhole known as Cleveland *who is also responsible for this cable mess now*.

THERE'S ALWAYS NEXT YEAR!! :D:D

to keep things true to the stinking hellhole known as cleveland *who is also responsible for this cable mess now*.

there's always next year!! :d:d

roflmao:):):):):):)

I tried using the big grin but it didn't work!

FWIW SDV is showing a big ZERO over here on diagnostic screen. So if they are working in the background they are way, way behind.

The Miami Herold International Edition:

- Probably postpone shutoff to June 12, 2009
- Stations can voluntarily shut off analog anytime on/after Feb 17

Interesting article about the problems of delaying for broadcasters. Like ch X waiting for ch Y to move to ch Z so ch X can take over the slot of ch Y, etc.. An ABC affiliate in VA said some transmitters can take $20,000 per month in electricity to run. WOW! I had no idea it would take that much juice. :eek::eek::eek:

The Miami Herold International Edition:

- Probably postpone shutoff to June 12, 2009
- Stations can voluntarily shut off analog anytime on/after Feb 17

Interesting article about the problems of delaying for broadcasters. Like ch X waiting for ch Y to move to ch Z so ch X can take over the slot of ch Y, etc.. An ABC affiliate in VA said some transmitters can take $20,000 per month in electricity to run. WOW! I had no idea it would take that much juice. :eek::eek::eek:

Thank you. Where the heck is the link?;)

Thank you. Where the heck is the link?;)

Hey hook. :)

I'd guess they have a web presence, but I honestly don't know. Try the regular Miami Herald site, it was in yesterdays (saturday) international issue. The International Edition is usually stripped out and stripped down articles from the main paper then regionalized for the distribution area. We are always in the Caribbean for most of January and print media is quite limited, mostly just local papers. The local papers are much more entertaining to read, but void of any *real* news. :p

EDIT: here is the link: http://www.miamiherald.com/business/technology/story/869740.html

Hey hook. :)

I'd guess they have a web presence, but I honestly don't know. Try the regular Miami Herald site, it was in yesterdays (saturday) international issue. The International Edition is usually stripped out and stripped down articles from the main paper then regionalized for the distribution area. We are always in the Caribbean for most of January and print media is quite limited, mostly just local papers. The local papers are much more entertaining to read, but void of any *real* news. :p

EDIT: here is the link: http://www.miamiherald.com/business/technology/story/869740.html

There you go. Good toby10. Now whenever nickdawg gets up and reads this the cursing and swearing will begin!!!!:D

There you go. Good toby10. Now whenever nickdawg gets up and reads this the cursing and swearing will begin!!!!:D

HA! :eek::cool::eek:

I found this (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gFQTV6u7aQ_ujqqX5bFP5QPRIVgAD95SJ1K09) article from the Associated Press about the possible delay. I noticed it did not mention how it would be paid for, and it did mention that stations would have the right to go digital earlier then the June date if they so choose.

Isn't 45/49 in the process of adding HDTV record equipment?

And I believe Mr. Jasso estimated a mid-March-ish date for the SDV work to be done, not necessarily for the new HD channels (though I presume that'd come fairly quickly after SDV was in place).

Isn't 45/49 in the process of adding HDTV record equipment?

And I believe Mr. Jasso estimated a mid-March-ish date for the SDV work to be done, not necessarily for the new HD channels (though I presume that'd come fairly quickly after SDV was in place).

Clever. Notice how Inundated avoided the word assume?:)

Clever. Notice how Inundated avoided the word assume?:)

It likely depends on what else is in the hopper after SDV frees up the bandwidth. And will they implement SDV on SARA on the old Adelphia system, or will they convert to Navigator? And does SARA support "StartOver"? And what other uses would they have for the freed up bandwidth?

All questions I don't know. My PRESUMPTION is that HD channels are high on the list, but Mr. Jasso didn't give that tentative "mid-March" time frame for HD channel additions, only for the SDV work that would pave the way for the upgrade.

The Miami Herold International Edition:

- Probably postpone shutoff to June 12, 2009
- Stations can voluntarily shut off analog anytime on/after Feb 17

Interesting article about the problems of delaying for broadcasters. Like ch X waiting for ch Y to move to ch Z so ch X can take over the slot of ch Y, etc.. An ABC affiliate in VA said some transmitters can take $20,000 per month in electricity to run. WOW! I had no idea it would take that much juice. :eek::eek::eek:

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to call a big BULL on that one!! A bill about this already came up about a week ago. Either the House or Senate shot it down. If they shot it down once, I get the feeling it will happen again. Even the government is not this F**KING STUPID!! To move the date when we're 25 days away from it?

Also, there is not enough support for moving it. Broadcast TV stations do not want it moved. Even the NAB doesn't want it moved. IF they did, it would have been moved by now. The networks are not pushing for it to be moved either. The only people who care are little, nothing BS groups. The bill might come up again, and it will probably be shot down again. Nothing short of a Presidential order will change this, and that's unlikely. With all the trouble he faces now, TV is the last thing on anyone's mind.

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to call a big BULL on that one!! A bill about this already came up about a week ago. Either the House or Senate shot it down. If they shot it down once, I get the feeling it will happen again. Even the government is not this F**KING STUPID!! To move the date when we're 25 days away from it?

Also, there is not enough support for moving it. Broadcast TV stations do not want it moved. Even the NAB doesn't want it moved. IF they did, it would have been moved by now. The networks are not pushing for it to be moved either. The only people who care are little, nothing BS groups. The bill might come up again, and it will probably be shot down again. Nothing short of a Presidential order will change this, and that's unlikely. With all the trouble he faces now, TV is the last thing on anyone's mind.

Completely agree with you. I'm just telling you what was in the article. ;)
The article claims they are voting on it this coming week. Perhaps a BO push? :eek:

As I said, print media is few and far between down here.

It likely depends on what else is in the hopper after SDV frees up the bandwidth. And will they implement SDV on SARA on the old Adelphia system, or will they convert to Navigator? And does SARA support "StartOver"? And what other uses would they have for the freed up bandwidth?

All questions I don't know. My PRESUMPTION is that HD channels are high on the list, but Mr. Jasso didn't give that tentative "mid-March" time frame for HD channel additions, only for the SDV work that would pave the way for the upgrade.

If they're adding "Start Over", then they will have to add Navigator in all the areas without it. Now the fact that SARA is SDV compliant opens a new can of worms. Since Passport wasn't SDV capable, they had to roll out Navigator on the entire Passport system before they could begin work on SDV. The Navigator change here took from the end of March to the beginning of May(when my SA 8300HD was finally hit :(:(:().

But since SDV works with SARA, they can probably get SDV going and even add new channels, then start rolling out Navigator and Start Over area by area. The reason why I say this can be done is Jasso said nothing about Navigator in the original article. If they needed to roll out Navigator first, it would take longer than March and honestly, I don't think even TWC wants to wait on this. They have to be getting their asses kicked big time because of the lack of HD channels.

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to call a big BULL on that one!! A bill about this already came up about a week ago. Either the House or Senate shot it down. If they shot it down once, I get the feeling it will happen again. Even the government is not this F**KING STUPID!! To move the date when we're 25 days away from it?

Also, there is not enough support for moving it. Broadcast TV stations do not want it moved. Even the NAB doesn't want it moved. IF they did, it would have been moved by now. The networks are not pushing for it to be moved either. The only people who care are little, nothing BS groups. The bill might come up again, and it will probably be shot down again. Nothing short of a Presidential order will change this, and that's unlikely. With all the trouble he faces now, TV is the last thing on anyone's mind.

Is the AP article I gave a link to bull as well?

Believe it, it's going to happen and you and I are paying for it. Look at the article in my previous post: It says that the delay will allow broadcasters to go ahead if they want to and transmit digital only.

Is the AP article I gave a link to bull as well?

Believe it, it's going to happen and you and I are paying for it. Look at the article in my previous post: It says that the delay will allow broadcasters to go ahead if they want to and transmit digital only.

If by some freak of nature this horse dung happens, I'd expect to see almost every station in Cleveland(and everywhere else for that matter) go dark on 2/17/09. I don't think there are many takers to stay on longer than that. Even WKYC's Directors Cut blog said they are opposed to staying on until June.

Maybe only WOIO would stay on, since they cater to the *cough cough demographic that would be affected the most by the DTV transition. ;):D

Is the AP article I gave a link to bull as well?

Believe it, it's going to happen and you and I are paying for it. Look at the article in my previous post: It says that the delay will allow broadcasters to go ahead if they want to and transmit digital only.
Honestly, a staggered transition is probably best as it isn't an all or nothing deal. Once stations start disappearing, people will start asking questions and acting on the digital transition.

That said, will this delay WKYC's move to 17? And why in the bloody heck is WJW moving onto the VHF part of the spectrum?

Honestly, a staggered transition is probably best as it isn't an all or nothing deal. Once stations start disappearing, people will start asking questions and acting on the digital transition.

That said, will this delay WKYC's move to 17? And why in the bloody heck is WJW moving onto the VHF part of the spectrum?

WJW is moving so they can keep their channel 8 position.

Ultimately it won't be you, me, or the broadcasters who decide who will broadcast and who won't broadcast analog. It will be the people who pay, the advertisers.

As usual, it boils down to dollars and cents. If the figures in the Cleveland area are true and something like a 1/3 of the people are not prepared for the transition then you can bet that they will tell the broadcasters they will pull their money if they shut down. And since the broadcasters, according to the way I understand this bill is written, would be reimbursed by the FCC then it makes sense that they will not convert. They will lose revenue if they do. And making money is the name of the game.

As usual, it boils down to dollars and cents. If the figures in the Cleveland area are true and something like a 1/3 of the people are not prepared for the transition then you can bet that they will tell the broadcasters they will pull their money if they shut down. And since the broadcasters, according to the way I understand this bill is written, would be reimbursed by the FCC then it makes sense that they will not convert. They will lose revenue if they do. And making money is the name of the game.

You're making a lot of assumptions there. For one, I haven't yet seen that "something like a 1/3 of the people" in this market aren't prepared. The most recent figure I saw was something like just under 6 percent, around the national average. (5.9 percent in Cleveland/Akron/Canton, if I remember right.)

Ah, here we go, thanks to Mr. Macek over at 3 (http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/2009/01/news-nielsen-says-more-than-65-million.html)...


More than 6.5 million U.S. households -- or 5.7 percent of all homes -- are not ready for the upcoming transition to all-digital broadcasting and would be unable to receive any television programming at all if the transition occurred today, the Nielsen Company reported Thursday.

That translates into 5.7 percent of all U.S. households. In the Cleveland-Akron-Canton area in Ohio, Nielsen says 5.91 percent of households are not ready.


The "they'll tell broadcasters they will pull their money" line is basically a fantasy scenario you are creating in your own mind. Advertisers are already pulling money, because of the down economy. This probably isn't even on their radar.

What COULD happen - if there's a demonstrated significant loss of viewers post-transition, the stations may have to charge less (less reach). But they're doing so already, trying to keep advertisers (that haven't gone out of business!) aboard.

And if we make what I believe is a reasonable assumption: that of the around 6 percent not ready, a large chunk are viewers that are not desirable for advertisers, anyway...the poor, the elderly, and other groups that aren't really targeted by advertisers...then that drops that factor down a few notches.

The kids and young adults? The digital transition won't be a big deal. Those who are still watching over air are doing it digitally, and the rest are on cable/satellite. Many of 'em are watching online, via Hulu, the networks' sites and the like. Or, via iTunes or downloading from not-so-legal sites online for free.

THIS is a MUCH bigger problem than whether 6 percent of over-air viewers just can't figure out this digital thing.

You're making a lot of assumptions there. For one, I haven't yet seen that "something like a 1/3 of the people" in this market aren't prepared. The most recent figure I saw was something like just under 6 percent, around the national average. (5.9 percent in Cleveland/Akron/Canton, if I remember right.)

Ah, here we go, thanks to Mr. Macek over at 3 (http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/2009/01/news-nielsen-says-more-than-65-million.html)...



The "they'll tell broadcasters they will pull their money" line is basically a fantasy scenario you are creating in your own mind. Advertisers are already pulling money, because of the down economy. This probably isn't even on their radar.

What COULD happen - if there's a demonstrated significant loss of viewers post-transition, the stations may have to charge less (less reach). But they're doing so already, trying to keep advertisers (that haven't gone out of business!) aboard.

And if we make what I believe is a reasonable assumption: that of the around 6 percent not ready, a large chunk are viewers that are not desirable for advertisers, anyway...the poor, the elderly, and other groups that aren't really targeted by advertisers...then that drops that factor down a few notches.

The kids and young adults? The digital transition won't be a big deal. Those who are still watching over air are doing it digitally, and the rest are on cable/satellite. Many of 'em are watching online, via Hulu, the networks' sites and the like. Or, via iTunes or downloading from not-so-legal sites online for free.

THIS is a MUCH bigger problem than whether 6 percent of over-air viewers just can't figure out this digital thing.

Hardly a fantasy, and quite frankly Inundated I'm a bit insulted by your post.

I might be mistaken, what I thought I heard was what I said. Now if I'm mistaken and apparently I am I apologize.

I'm not hoping that analog sticks around, I want it to go away as well. But advertisers do very well dictate what a broadcaster does or does not do. Think of the politically incorrect situations that have happened in the past. Now this is not a politically correct issue, nor is it even to the degree I thought it was so more then likely you're correct in this circumstance nothing will happen. The notion that I'm "fantasizing" all this however is simply not so.

We will see shortly, won't we?

The "they'll tell broadcasters they will pull their money" line is basically a fantasy scenario you are creating in your own mind. Advertisers are already pulling money, because of the down economy. This probably isn't even on their radar.

What COULD happen - if there's a demonstrated significant loss of viewers post-transition, the stations may have to charge less (less reach). But they're doing so already, trying to keep advertisers (that haven't gone out of business!) aboard.

And if we make what I believe is a reasonable assumption: that of the around 6 percent not ready, a large chunk are viewers that are not desirable for advertisers, anyway...the poor, the elderly, and other groups that aren't really targeted by advertisers...then that drops that factor down a few notches.

I'll second that it is a fantasy. The advertisers do not care. The advertisers haven't said a word about DTV either way. What is known is that the NAB is not in favor of delaying the date. Also, one Cleveland TV station (WKYC) has said they are opposed to delaying the date. I'm sure the others have similar feelings(especially the ones who have been broadcasting two channels for almost ten years).

The NAB doesn't support this, the broadcasters themselves do not support it. That is why I am doubtful that the date will even change. The only people who support it are bottom feeding lobbyists who swayed congress to bring it to a vote, which failed once.

DTV is coming, whether you like it or not. And if it is only 5%, then f**k 'em!! No way in HELL should we delay this for 5% of people who are MORONS and are not ready.

Delaying this is the WORST possible move, because nothing will be fixed by delay. The same idiots who are not ready now will not be ready then. If people think they can wait until the 16th to get ready for DTV, they'll then be thinking they can wait until June 10th.

If you think the advertisers care about these people, you're wrong. If this 5% is so oblivious to the 1,000,000 commercials + news stories + banners/crawls on screen + half hour specials dedicated to this transition, do you really think they are paying attention to the other ads on TV? Or the shows? Nope. They're just a lost cause...and proof that Darwin was right!!:D:D

I'll second that it is a fantasy. The advertisers do not care. The advertisers haven't said a word about DTV either way.

I'll third that. In fact I was reading something a couple of weeks back about some VP at Didney saying that only about 1/3 of the commercials that have been submitted have been in HD. So it would appear that the advertsing community will start coming over to HD in their good sweet time.

I think the 6% number high anyway but I have'nt been able to find what Neilsen based that number on

If you think the advertisers care about these people, you're wrong. If this 5% is so oblivious to the 1,000,000 commercials + news stories + banners/crawls on screen + half hour specials dedicated to this transition, do you really think they are paying attention to the other ads on TV? Or the shows? Nope. They're just a lost cause...and proof that Darwin was right!!:D:D

Let me be clear: I don't think advertisers give a squat about people. I do think they care about whether or not their advertising is effective.

You guys are making it seem like I'm champion the cause to delay digital. I'm not, I want it to go through just as you do. I'm just looking at it from another angle, that's all.

Do I think it will get delayed? Oh, hell yes! Government always screws up a good thing.

WUAB is also a digital OTA capture. On "Two and a Half Men" you can see the vertical blanking lines on the top of the screen on WUAB HD. If you look closely on channel 6, on a TV that doesn't have much overscan, you can also see the the white flickering. It is not present on the analog version of the channel.
I see VBI lines on virtually all the local stations watching OTA whenever there is SD 4 X 3 content. There are exceptions: WKBN-DT during the newscasts do not display the VBI lines. This is using the OTA tuner on a Dish Network ViP 622, S-video output to a 27" Trinitron. I even see small amounts of VBI lines on the top left hand side of "16 X 9 SD" that FOX 8 uses for some shots during the newscasts. I may not have a true HDTV but I can still tell the difference between true HD and SD (the SD is not as sharp as the HD even after downconverting).

Anybody with a steerable antenna able to pick up WNEO-DT in Salem now at higher power?
I tried scanning ch 45 last night and got a lock using an indoor Silver Sensor from Parma! Now if only WFMJ & WYTV would get on taller towers I'd have a complete set of alternitive network affilliate stations for the times whent he Cleveland locals decide to dump their network prime time schedule for Matlock :p

WOW, WNEO's coverage map is almost as good as WKBN's: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1274459.html

Hardly a fantasy, and quite frankly Inundated I'm a bit insulted by your post.

I might be mistaken, what I thought I heard was what I said. Now if I'm mistaken and apparently I am I apologize.

OK, I was a bit strong coming back to you on that, and I apologize.

My "fantasy" assessment is based on what we all do here all the time...including myself. We speculate, with very little factual information, based on what we believe to be an accurate assumption. (i.e. "advertisers will not want to lose viewers, so they'll pull ads, makes sense to me")

I haven't read of any major advertiser, ad buyer or anyone in the ad community that appears the least bit concerned about the DTV transition. I can't see it's on their radar. If there are trade articles or other reports saying so, I'd love to hear about them...I just haven't seen 'em myself.

Now, let's go back in the other direction, and meet you closer to your original "1/3 aren't ready" statement.

The Nielsen report estimating just under 6 percent not ready? That means people who are not ready in any shape or form - at the transition date, if they haven't done anything, they get nothing on their analog TVs. No converter box. No digital tuner. (A windfall for LPTVers like 29/35/52? :D)

I'm willing to submit that the "OTA viewers who could have problems, even if they have a digital box or tuner" figure could be closer to your original figure, though I think over 30 percent is still high.

These people could lose one or more channels (keeping others) due to signal/antenna issues, or lose more if they're in a fringe reception area... the edges of the market we've talked about here before.

But I still think that's a lower number than one third.

We're walking into uncharted territory here, be it in February or June.

And apologies again. This trying to reconstruct private discussions based on our own assumptions thing...well, I do it here, too. None of us is immune.

Trip was right..."This TV" is coming to WUAB/43:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162773-This_TV_Clears_60_.php


With certain stations from Tribune, Raycom and Sunbeam signing up to air This TV, the digital entertainment channel has raised its clearance level to over 60% of the country. The new additions include Tribune’s KTLA Los Angeles, WPHL Philadelphia, WDCW Washington, WTIC and WTXX Hartford and WGNO/WNOL New Orleans; Sunbeam’s WHDH Boston; and 15 Raycom outlets, including WUAB Cleveland and WMC Memphis.

I had no idea how badly this idea of changing the deadline would affect everyone else. In an attempt to find more news on this issue I discovered that wireless companies are going to be affected. Primarily it will be AT&T, Verizon and Quaalcom (sp?). Also PBS is claiming it will take a beating to the tune of 22 million.

Quaalcom is firmly against the delay as they had a green light to start a major project, AT&T and Verizon are OK with it, grudgingly.

In addition to costing companies money, the delay would also stall plans from emergency departments to use those airwaves.

My question is: What the heck would phone companies be doing with analog airways? Isn't everything digital?

WEAO 49 on DirecTV is now showing an SD center cut of the 16:9 HD signal on 49-1. So the graphics and stuff on the left and right side are getting cut off. Grrrr.... Previously DirecTV was picking up 49-2 and the HD content was properly letterboxed in the 4:3 SD window.

This is probably my fault - The other day I complained to both DirecTV and WEAO about DirecTV picking up the SD subchannel 49-2 instead of the HD subchannel 49-1, and apparently this is how they "fixed" it. WEAO is saying that DirecTV needs to launch a new satellite in 2010 before D* can carry the HD signal. Very odd considering we have no problem with WVIZ in HD. Aaaargh.

My question is: What the heck would phone companies be doing with analog airways? Isn't everything digital?

They'll be using those frequencies for new, advanced digital services such as higher bandwidth service for mobile devices. There's nothing to prevent them from using a frequency that was formerly occupied by an analog carrier with a new digital carrier.

OTA 49.1 seems to be altenating full 16 x 9 with something like 15 x 8. OTA 25.1 is broadcasting alternate sound on alternate #1 then sometimes alternate #2. It shows up on my display and 25.1 is the only channel doing this. The problem is my TV defaults to alternate sound #1 and if they are transmitting on alternate #2 I get no sound unless I manually change the menu to alternate #2. I think this is caused by global warming and the huge black hole in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. (magnetic influxation of the reverse flow carrier traveling through a Boise-Einstein Concentrate)
JJK

Trip was right..."This TV" is coming to WUAB/43:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162773-This_TV_Clears_60_.php

I'm not as crazy as I look! :D

- Trip

My question is: What the heck would phone companies be doing with analog airways? Isn't everything digital?The frequencies are neither analog or digital, they are just frequencies that are being repurposed from broadcast TV to other services.

Since they were sold to the highest bidder (with the exeption of the safety/homeland security users) I guess the winning bidders can put whatever they want over the air as long as that signal does not interfere with other authorized users. BTW just because they are telco's does not automatically mean they will be analog.

Do I think it will get delayed? Oh, hell yes! Government always screws up a good thing.Just to put things in perspective... the Federal Government is not canceling digital OTA, nor delaying its debut. The Federal Government has had ads on television for 6 to 12 months to let people know this is happening.

I think people may be a tad bit hard on the Federal Government with this one. It is a bit hard to synchronize the actions of 300 million people, a ton of which are either too busy or too ignorant (or a combination of the two) to deal with the unparalleled transition.

WEAO 49 on DirecTV is now showing an SD center cut of the 16:9 HD signal on 49-1. So the graphics and stuff on the left and right side are getting cut off. Grrrr.... Previously DirecTV was picking up 49-2 and the HD content was properly letterboxed in the 4:3 SD window.I can confirm that Dish Network is like that as well with regards to the PBS station.

I think people may be a tad bit hard on the Federal Government with this one. It is a bit hard to synchronize the actions of 300 million people, a ton of which are either too busy or too ignorant (or a combination of the two) to deal with the unparalleled transition.

Honestly I don't think anyone is really blaming the government for this (well, outside of some like nickdawg who tend to bitch about anything and everything. :rolleyes:), rather they are indeed placing the blame on the chunk of the public who are either ignorant to the whole thing or just plain lazy.

I really do not think this bill will pass. Or in the very least I certainly hope it won't. With all the advertising done so far about this transition and the major choreographed cooperation needing to take place between of all the different broadcasters between themselves and the FCC, it's really going to create more problems if it's postponed and most of the problems are going to be behind the scenes.

Just to put things in perspective... the Federal Government is not canceling digital OTA, nor delaying its debut. The Federal Government has had ads on television for 6 to 12 months to let people know this is happening.


Not only the government but also broadcasters have spent all kinds of money on this.

But if you truly want to put it in "perspective" then google it. There is a bi-partisan plan in the Senate. If it passes, and most of the articles I read feel it will, it's got to clear the House. Obama will sign it, that we know for sure.

The House of Representatives have not acted because of the existing action of the Senate. Otherwise it appears there would have been a move there.

Again I do not want to see this go through, but I can't ignore what I'm reading. And I consider the Associated Press to be a very reliable source. I've seen other's but not one I can say is as reliable.

Well today the Senate has approved the bill proposing the delay. This might actually happen.

Extra, Extra, read all about it from The Los Angeles Times:

Hold onto your rabbit ears: People unprepared for the nation's digital TV transition may get a four-month reprieve.

The Senate today voted unanimously to delay the transition to all-digital broadcasts, originally scheduled for Feb. 17, until June 12. If the measure passes the House, homes that get TV the old-fashioned way -- over the air -- will have extra time to get ready.

A delay would give the Obama administration the extra time it has been requesting to whip the converter-box program into shape. The program gave $40 coupons for the special converter boxes needed to make digital signals work with their analog TV sets, but it ran out of money early this month, and the waiting list has been growing. Reuters says:

Many lawmakers worry that an estimated 20 million mostly poor, elderly and rural households are not ready for the switch, which requires owners of older television sets receiving over-the-air signals to buy a converter box or subscribe to cable or satellite TV.

The intention of the digital-TV transition is to deliver clearer over-the-air pictures and free up valuable spectrum for public safety officials' communication systems. Critics of a delay say the nation has received ample warning about the transition and that the nation should flip the switch already, as Hawaii and Wilmington, N.C., have.

It's hard not to laugh about this all when you watch the spoof public service announcement, above, from the "Talkshow With Spike Feresten." But it's also hard not to think about the trouble that grannies all over the country may face as they try to make sense of this whole mess.

-- Chris Gaither

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/01/digital-tv-dela.html

WEAO 49 on DirecTV is now showing an SD center cut of the 16:9 HD signal on 49-1. So the graphics and stuff on the left and right side are getting cut off. Grrrr.... Previously DirecTV was picking up 49-2 and the HD content was properly letterboxed in the 4:3 SD window.



That's normal operation with the DTV transition coming. WNEO and WVIZ on TWC are already like that. The other stations are not affected by this since the major networks are keeping everything "protected" for 4:3 on the HD channels.

If anything is cut off, it is the fault of PBS or whoever makes the show. They should have their "stuff" together by now and position their graphics so the text on screen is not cut off.

I really hate this centercut garbage. There are still shows that have information outside of the 4:3 section that's being missed. Letterboxing has always worked, why not use it? Jesus h. christ people...

Not only that, but considering the anemic HD offerings around here, I'd rather see those channels we only get in SD keep the letterboxed aspect for those shows that are in that native format so that at least when I watch it on my 16:9 screen, I can set the box to zoom mode and return the picture to it's native 16:9 aspect. Not have this ugly stretch-o crap or pillarboxed garbage.

This is one reason I at least prefer having USA without an HD copy because all of their shows (or at least most of them. Have yet to see one contrary to the fact) are letterboxed. I can record/watch shows on there and while not in HD, I can switch the box to zoom mode and have the 16:9 picture at least.

I guess I've just never paid attention before or have always watched the HD recordings, but I watched House on Fox earlier on my SD set and noticed the ugly centercut crap they're doing and I REALLY wish they could switch to letterboxing or something. It's one reason why I love watching the reruns on USA as they keep the original aspect.

I mean, the whole reason for going from 4:3 to 16:9 is the extra picture info. I would think showing a letterboxed picture and keeping that extra bit of picture rather than cutting it out altogether would be more preferrable.

*sigh* Surrounded by idiots/pedantic jackasses/old farts

edit: I understand this is mostly moot considering the OTA locals are the only case where this takes place with the transition and at least TWCNEO is smart enough to offer all of them in HD. But who's to say if something like this won't start with the cable networks at some point? Probably not soon, but eventually I could see it happening too.

Two words for why the cropping instead of letterboxing:

Postage stamp.

Until AFD is implemented, things will be cropped to prevent that.

- Trip

I mean, the whole reason for going from 4:3 to 16:9 is the extra picture info. I would think showing a letterboxed picture and keeping that extra bit of picture rather than cutting it out altogether would be more preferrable.

(snip)

I 100% disagree. I like full frame 4:3. If I''m not going to get a full screen 16:9 picture, I want at least bars on two sides only. Four is unacceptable. The reason why I stopped watching USA is I am forced to watch a widescreen picture inside a widescreen TV, with a black frame. Bull crap!! I also like full frame 4:3 on my old TV sets. This transition makes me happy. Yes hookbill, I'm finally happy with TWC :p :D:D

As far as broadcast TV, it is all 4:3 safe. This means that whether a 4:3 version is coming from the network or a cable/satellite company, nothing important is cut off. SDTV viewers will still see the same 4:3 picture on 3, 5, 8 and 19 that they have seen before. AFAIK, none of the current primetime offerings are composed for 16:9, so nothing of importance is lost anyway. And the only broadcast network to letterbox is NBC, who this season moved their bug so it will still be seen on 4:3 sets.

Rabbit ears is right. Cable/satellite would be stupid to pass it through in letterbox, since most of the content on these channels is 4:3, it would be postage stamp. I have a HDTV box connected to a SDTV in my bedroom, and I can confirm that looks horrible. Postage stamp/letterbox on 4:3 sets is bad, bad, bad! :mad:

Until AFD is implemented, things will be cropped to prevent that.

Well then why the hell are we not doing that NOW? It's certainly available as far as I know. Back when I was staying with a friend of mine for a while in North Carolina and he had gotten a new 4:3 CRT with a digital tuner, one of the local stations must have been actively broadcasting the AFD code as daytime 4:3 shows were filling the screen on an otherwise 16:9 1080i broadcast and primetime programming was in it's 16:9 lettboxed format, all without changing the picture format on the set.

I swear, the US is falling behind more and more every day. 'least in the UK they have had DVB for ages now not to mention REAL cd quality digital terrestrial radio. Here in the US we are stuck with the old standby FM radio and some hackish digital standard cooked up by corporate beancounters and a digital tv transition that's being postponed even more than it should have been originally. :mad:

I 100% disagree. I like full frame 4:3. If I''m not going to get a full screen 16:9 picture, I want at least bars on two sides only. Four is unacceptable. The reason why I stopped watching USA is I am forced to watch a widescreen picture inside a widescreen TV, with a black frame. Bull crap!! I also like full frame 4:3 on my old TV sets. This transition makes me happy. Yes hookbill, I'm finally happy with TWC :p :D:D

As far as broadcast TV, it is all 4:3 safe. This means that whether a 4:3 version is coming from the network or a cable/satellite company, nothing important is cut off. SDTV viewers will still see the same 4:3 picture on 3, 5, 8 and 19 that they have seen before. AFAIK, none of the current primetime offerings are composed for 16:9, so nothing of importance is lost anyway. And the only broadcast network to letterbox is NBC, who this season moved their bug so it will still be seen on 4:3 sets.

Rabbit ears is right. Cable/satellite would be stupid to pass it through in letterbox, since most of the content on these channels is 4:3, it would be postage stamp. I have a HDTV box connected to a SDTV in my bedroom, and I can confirm that looks horrible. Postage stamp/letterbox on 4:3 sets is bad, bad, bad! :mad:

Dude. If you have a 16:9 capable set, switch it to zoom mode and you no longer have the postage stamp effect. It's what I have been complaining about all this time so far.

I really don't understand you sometimes nickdawg. First you complain about the lack of HD offerings and programming and picture quality then next you complain about letterboxing on old 4:3 SD sets.

Like Trip in VA stated, this is where we need the AFD bit and we need it now. And it's certainly available. Just idiot programmers and broadcasters are dragging their feet on it. I'd rather the stuff that has been FILMED in 16:9 (regardless of whether it has been composed for it or not. It was filmed in that aspect so there must be a reason for it or else they could have just filmed it in 4:3 in the first place.) displayed in 16:9 even if it means letterboxing it for 4:3 viewers.

One reason why I like NBC a lot IS because they letterbox their programming.

I swear, the US is falling behind more and more every day. 'least in the UK they have had DVB for ages now not to mention REAL cd quality digital terrestrial radio. Here in the US we are stuck with the old standby FM radio and some hackish digital standard cooked up by corporate beancounters and a digital tv transition that's being postponed even more than it should have been originally. :mad:

So dramatic. :D

As it is now, only NBC as a network has shown any interest in AFD. The others do not care one way or the other. And I have to agree with them, because it involves implementation of hardware on the affiliate as well as the cableco/satcaster. And on top of everything that has already been done, all the money spent, I do not think any network should force this on anyone. Affiliates shouldn't have to spend money on something that will be obsolete in a few years. There is nothing wrong with 4:3 on SDTV. That's the way it's been for 50+ years, no need to spend money changing something that will be vanishing in the near future. And especially in the case of TWC, I'm just happy a picture comes from them to my screen. Forget about any other nonsense in between to get messed up. ;)

So dramatic. :D

Dramatic, but true. This country is chock full of drama. Just turn on Fox News or MSNBC for a few hours. ;)

Um, I think Fox as a network has either just implemented AFD (via the splicer) or will be implementing it soon. PBS is also hard at work on it. I think ABC is the only network to explicitly reject AFD.

- Trip

Dude. If you have a 16:9 capable set, switch it to zoom mode and you no longer have the postage stamp effect. It's what I have been complaining about all this time so far.

The result of doing that is horrendous. I've tried it. It is equivalent to horizontally stretching the picture to fill the screen. The picture is degraded and does not look as good as when it is left alone. I either avoid this kind of programming or just watch it as is, pretending I have a smaller TV! :cool::cool:

I really don't understand you sometimes nickdawg. First you complain about the lack of HD offerings and programming and picture quality then next you complain about letterboxing on old 4:3 SD sets.

Digital (not equal to) HDTV. How programs are shown on SDTV has nothing to do with HD offerings. ABC, CBS, FOX, CW, MNTV, + cable networks have HDTV channels and show 4:3 on their 4:3 channels. Or, if you want to save bandwidth, just make the bugs 4:3 safe and chop off the sides. It's the perfect solution.


Like Trip in VA stated, this is where we need the AFD bit and we need it now. And it's certainly available. Just idiot programmers and broadcasters are dragging their feet on it. I'd rather the stuff that has been FILMED in 16:9 (regardless of whether it has been composed for it or not. It was filmed in that aspect so there must be a reason for it or else they could have just filmed it in 4:3 in the first place.) displayed in 16:9 even if it means letterboxing it for 4:3 viewers.

That means nothing. ER was filmed in 16:9 since the start, showed in 4:3 for most of its run. Law & Order, the original, filmed in 16:9 since 1996, also 4:3 until very recently. Seinfeld, filmed in 16:9, shown in 4:3. Only now being shown in 16:9(that is still 4:3 safe). Everybody Loves Raymond, King Of Queens, Becker, CSI(all), Without A Trace, Cold Case, any new program on ABC, CBS, FOX and even NBC---all filmed/shot in 16:9, but still shown in 4:3. The main reason for doing this is to be future-proof, when 16:9 sets are the majority and 16:9 originated sources are the norm.

One reason why I like NBC a lot IS because they letterbox their programming.

That was my biggest turn off of NBC, other than the crappy programming lately. :D:D I only started watching NBC again when I got the HDTV in 2006. Between 2004-2006 I watched more ABC, CBS and FOX.

Um, I think Fox as a network has either just implemented AFD (via the splicer) or will be implementing it soon. PBS is also hard at work on it. I think ABC is the only network to explicitly reject AFD.

- Trip

Yes, of course. I remembered it was someone else. I believe CBS is also opposed to it(and Les Moonves is even against letterboxing:D). All I have to say is, look at the ratings. Even "more of the picture" cannot rescue crap shows. And "seeing less" isn't a deterrent to good shows.

And if FOX is doing AFD at the source, doesn't mean the end user is guaranteed to see it. I was at my mom's house earlier, and FOX was on. SD FOX on channel 8. It was a beautiful 4:3 picture, and there was no bug to be seen at all!!! I'm jealous!! On the HDTV channel, we get that ugly affiliate bug in the far right corner(which explains its absence on SDTV).

Also note that in all these years, not ONE network has attempted a massive rollout of letterboxing on a sporting event, especially major events. I think they're aware of what the audience wants and know where the "boundaries" are.

I think this is caused by global warming and the huge black hole in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. (magnetic influxation of the reverse flow carrier traveling through a Boise-Einstein Concentrate)
JJK

AHH yes.....could this also explain TWC's lack of HD programming???:D

when they already show up in other locations..

isn't it taking up bandwith that could be used for more important things...

Like more Music channels..lol..

I really hate this centercut garbage. There are still shows that have information outside of the 4:3 section that's being missed. Letterboxing has always worked, why not use it? Jesus h. christ people...I agree, but some people prefer 4:3. I know, I know... that is an abomination to film in 16:9, but still remains true. I much rather watch something in widescreen on my CRT than in full screen. But they wouldn't sell 4:3 DVD's unless people wanted it. Poorer sight, think a full 4:3 screen is much better than using almost just half the screen, etc... are reasons why 4:3 survives still. Sometimes it is hard to get people to change their minds.

What would be nice is to be offered the choice, if that is even possible, like my HD receiver does, with normal, zoom and some funky other option. That can't be too hard to do. You can send the 16:9 and the viewer on whatever can "choose" whether to zoom to 4:3 or stay at the 16:9. Make it a default option on the Sat or Cable Receiver.

Not only the government but also broadcasters have spent all kinds of money on this.Oh boo bloody hoo for the broadcasters. The broadcasters dragged their heals on this the entire time and needed the Federal Government to force them into this digital transition to begin with.

Yes hookbill, I'm finally happy with TWC :p :D:D



I'm confident that won't last long.:D;)

Oh boo bloody hoo for the broadcasters. The broadcasters dragged their heals on this the entire time and needed the Federal Government to force them into this digital transition to begin with.

I was talking about the advertising dollars. Broadcasters spent a great deal of money themselves. I know of 2 times that FOX 8 put on a 1/2 hour show during the 6:00 news explaining all the details and answering the questions. They have had people answering calls live on tv to answer questions.

All a mute point now, it's full steam ahead with the delay. With a unanimous vote in the Senate, it will fly through the house and Obama will sign.:mad:

I'll bet 1000.00 cyber bucks that when June rolls around the percentage of people ready will be about the same. All this delay will do is cause confusion.

I'll bet 1000.00 cyber bucks that when June rolls around the percentage of people ready will be about the same. All this delay will do is cause confusion.
If the delay isn't forcing broadcasters to keep the analog on, this delay may very well help to get people to get the boxes for their tvs, as their channels will stop being on the air. They'll say "WTF?!?" and write angry letters, find out what is what and finally act on it. A wholesale switch was probably a bad idea from the beginning. Get enough channels off the air and people will start acting.

The delay will allow additional funding to the digital converter box program. Right now, it is probably the elderly and the poor that are behind the curve (those not too well represented on the Internet). This will get their attention better and with the funding back in the program, we'll be able to make progress. So I see your $1,000 cyber bucks and raise it by a dozen cyber donuts. ;)

when they already show up in other locations..

isn't it taking up bandwith that could be used for more important things...

Like more Music channels..lol..
No additional bandwidth is taken up by having the channels in the 800's. The 800's are the actual channels, they "map down" to other channel numbers for convenience. This is also true for satellite. For example the local channels on my Dish Network DVR show up on 3, 5 & 8, but they are actually on 8510, 8511 etc. (the SD versions) and 5200, 5201 etc. for HD. The only duplication is the SD & HD versions.

The locals map down to the 3.00, 3.01 format, ironocally both the SD and HD show up as .00, with the OTA versions showing up as .01, .02 etc.

I really am sick of these stations running constant weather crawlers during entertainment shows.
WKYC seems to be proud that they can put three lines of information on the bottom of the screen along with a radar map that is useless. They take up 25-30% of the screen and who the hell can read lines lines of info and pay attention to the show being broadcast at the same time?
If the damn weather alerts are so important, just pull the show off the air and hit us with weather stuff. Not sure what good 3-2 is if the need to disrupt 3 and 3-1 with this stuff.
No wonder more and more people are watching the cable networks.

The closed-captioning standard has always included a full-screen text mode. It would be interesting if they could combine this signalling channel with something resembling the EAS alert system, so a viewer could choose whether to have weather alerts pop up on their screen as a digital overlay. This would enable viewers to see the alerts without having them embedded into their video on their DVR. Having said that, the captioning system provides a fairly low-bandwidth pipe so it wouldn't lend itself well to detailed radar images, but it could allow the viewer to tune to a designated subchannel to get more details if desired.

At least the Cleveland TV people kept it clean tonight. We didn't have Power of 5 Head Douchebag Mark Johnson interrupt Scrubs, although that damn map was irritating enough. :mad:

At least you guys in cleveland have well budgeted stations who can do the weather crawls and maps without cutting back to a postage stamped SD feed. All of the Y-town stations here don't have the equipment to overlay their own graphics on the HD feeds so when they have to run that stuff, they cut back to SD either pillarboxed or postage stamped.

This especially irks me on WFMJ as they like to do that during primetime shows willy-nilly. But it's understandable from a budget standpoint. But it's one reason why I've moved all my NBC recordings to WKYC instead. Even with the crawls and weather warnings, it stays in HD and I don't lose nearly as much of the picture as I do on WFMJ when they cut over to the overlaid graphics.

At least you guys in cleveland have well budgeted stations who can do the weather crawls and maps without cutting back to a postage stamped SD feed. All of the Y-town stations here don't have the equipment to overlay their own graphics on the HD feeds so when they have to run that stuff, they cut back to SD either pillarboxed or postage stamped.

This especially irks me on WFMJ as they like to do that during primetime shows willy-nilly. But it's understandable from a budget standpoint. But it's one reason why I've moved all my NBC recordings to WKYC instead. Even with the crawls and weather warnings, it stays in HD and I don't lose nearly as much of the picture as I do on WFMJ when they cut over to the overlaid graphics.

OPPOSITE DAY!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D;):D:D:D

I was just about to say I wish I could get WYTV-DT for ABC. I've seen WFMJ and WKBN and I'd rather have that in SDTV than what we have in HDTV. WKYC runs a three line crawl at the bottom of the screen. WEWS wastes a good portion of the screen with blue background and small text at the bottom. WJW cannot even overlay on HD(because of the FOX splicer system). I compared a few weeks back, WFML had a small banner when WKYC had three lines of scrolling eyesores.

I just turned on 21 analog OTA, the school closing banner is in the bottom letterbox bar of NBC. If WFMJ-DT is showing it windowboxed, just use the "zoom-o-vision" setting you mentioned yesterday. Then you'd have a completely clean 16:9 picture.

I just turned on 21 analog OTA, the school closing banner is in the bottom letterbox bar of NBC. If WFMJ-DT is showing it windowboxed, just use the "zoom-o-vision" setting you mentioned yesterday. Then you'd have a completely clean 16:9 picture.

But it's just the 480i letterboxed picture upsampled and fed to the 1080i DT broadcast. WKYC and other cleveland stations keep the HD network feed intact but just overlay the crawls. There's a big difference. I can live with the crawls especially on WKYC since very little if any of the active picture is lost. What I don't like is being dropped back to an SD picture for this stuff which I already know well enough about.

But it's just the 480i letterboxed picture upsampled and fed to the 1080i DT broadcast. WKYC and other cleveland stations keep the HD network feed intact but just overlay the crawls. There's a big difference.

I'd rather have 480i widescreen* with the school closing banner cut off than 1080i HD with crap visible on the screen. Try the zoom mode on WFMJ. From visualizing it, the school closing banner should not be visible in zoom mode.

*(I'll admit that zooming looks decent on HD channels)

The closed-captioning standard has always included a full-screen text mode. It would be interesting if they could combine this signalling channel with something resembling the EAS alert system, so a viewer could choose whether to have weather alerts pop up on their screen as a digital overlay. This would enable viewers to see the alerts without having them embedded into their video on their DVR. Having said that, the captioning system provides a fairly low-bandwidth pipe so it wouldn't lend itself well to detailed radar images, but it could allow the viewer to tune to a designated subchannel to get more details if desired.

Oh, heck yes. That would be such a good solution, and it would also stop at least 50% of the complaining!!!!;)

I'd rather have 480i widescreen* with the school closing banner cut off than 1080i HD with crap visible on the screen. Try the zoom mode on WFMJ. From visualizing it, the school closing banner should not be visible in zoom mode.

*(I'll admit that zooming looks decent on HD channels)

I can't zoom HD channels. It's just not possible.

I can't zoom HD channels. It's just not possible.

Wow, another limitation of Tivo!! :p:p:p:p:p

Oh, heck yes. That would be such a good solution, and it would also stop at least 50% of the complaining!!!!;)

Well, you'd still have the stations doing their own thing, but what TWC has set up in our area at least for those with their SA/Motorola DVR's is this: Anytime an EAS message is broadcast, TW sends the text and audio directly to all the boxes and they run the text crawl and cut in the audio just like most stations do already but it happens on every channel and recordings and isn't recorded as part of the shows running that time.

Though it seems TW's only doing occasional tests so far with that setup. I have yet to see them run a legitimate EAS message.

But if all cable providers could follow suit with this and the OTA stations can cut their own weather alerts (FAT chance), this would be a much more bearable basis.

Only other possible thing is either run those alerts/crawls on an SD subchannel (ie: WBCB for WFMJ and leave the 1080i network programming alone) or possibly run a second audio feed on the primary channel.

The only problem I see with that idea is "analog freeloaders" on basic cable. You need Digital converter box to get the subchannels of local affiliates. WKYC-2, WOIO-2, WUAB-2, and all subsequent subchannels of WVIZ and WNEO are carried on Digital Cable onle, somewhere in the 300s. (they used to be in the 700s). Once the DTV transition is complete, 100% of households with OTA will be able to get subchannels, since they have digital TVs or converter boxes.

However, I see this "public service/safety" issue a good way to push for an all-digital system on cable, and requiring everyone to have a digital cable box. This way local affiliates can pass weather information as an overlay banner from the converter box or digital TV on OTA and send the same information to cable/satellite and have the cable/satellite boxes run it in the style of EAS tests.

They could always do the second audio track thing too just looping the EAS messages. Analog broadcasts are capable of low quality secondary audio as are most tv's. Check out 'SAP'.

But again, this'd still require cooperation with the broadcasters. Else they could continue to run the crawls/maps regardless of what TWC is doing.

I guarantee that even if TWC did this, Mark Johnson would still rear his ugly little head on my TV screen.

So, how do you get WKYC and WFMJ? That would be like a dream come true for me to be able to get both channels. If I did get the Y'town locals, I don't think I'd ever watch the Cleveland stations. WKBN beats WOIO. WYTV beats WEWS.

Cable of course. WKYC is definitely way too far to grab with their meager Tx Power and I'm just on the fringe of WFMJ as it is. At least on the Cable side we get both the Youngstown and Cleveland markets to choose from without that mess.

I really am sick of these stations running constant weather crawlers during entertainment shows.
WKYC seems to be proud that they can put three lines of information on the bottom of the screen along with a radar map that is useless. They take up 25-30% of the screen and who the hell can read lines lines of info and pay attention to the show being broadcast at the same time?
If the damn weather alerts are so important, just pull the show off the air and hit us with weather stuff. Not sure what good 3-2 is if the need to disrupt 3 and 3-1 with this stuff.
No wonder more and more people are watching the cable networks.

Agree, I agree. :D

As I've said before:
- put a SMALL weather warning symbol on the screen, referring people to another source (like their so precious and perceived important sub ch's)
- if being warned that there is snow on the way in NEO in January (big shocker :eek:) then get a friggin $10 weather radio

Wow, another limitation of Tivo!! :p:p:p:p:p

TiVo does allow you to zoom, my television prevents it! At least my big television does.

So does my small HD TV. I'll have to look again, I think that's the way it works. I'll also look at my SA box and get back to you.

IIRC I could do it on my Sony but it looked awful so I never did. In fact, that maybe the case now

Though it seems TW's only doing occasional tests so far with that setup. I have yet to see them run a legitimate EAS message.



It's been a while but while I was watching recordings I saw a current alert come on the television. I think it temporarily stopped the recording, or at least blocked it so I had to see the warning.

Like I said that was sometime ago.

Wow, another limitation of Tivo!! :p:p:p:p:p

In a sense you're kind of right. But not exactly.

TiVo offers more ways to change your aspect then SA, but you cannot change the aspect on HD unless you have it set for 4:3 mode. That's using TiVo only. TiVo has a smart mode where it will adjust for either 4:3 or 16:9 but I do not like bars so I will set it for 16:9. If I need to stretch HD, and I never do I'll put up with side bars on that I can do it with my television.

I'd hardly call it a limitation, the theory being "why stretch HD?" which for the life of me I don't know why you would. But to each his own.

I haven't figured out why OTA 49.1 sometimes broadcasts 15 x 8 instead of 16 x 9. I don't like the weather crawls telling me it's going to snow or get cold. I don't like seeing a 2.35 x 1 movie in 16 x 9 loosing half the picture and amplifying the film grain. Sometimes it is 4 x 3 even worse. I don't like some of the crawls scrunching the image into short fat people. I do like watching the Orange County Choppers total honesty, talents, and Senior ass chewing everybody to get to work and Mikee chopping down the door to Senior's office. (pure comedy) Their building is full of the best equipment money can buy. The best show on TV with no writers, no directors, and incorporating something new called "brutal honesty".
JJK

I noticed that Time Warner redesigned their webpage to the 21st century. There was an HD section that says "More HD Channels Are Coming Soon
More crystal-clear entertainment is coming your way. We’re adding more and more HD channels all the time. "

...It would be nice to know when "soon" means.


Here's the link:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/learn/cable/hdtv.html

I noticed that Time Warner redesigned their webpage to the 21st century. There was an HD section that says "More HD Channels Are Coming Soon
More crystal-clear entertainment is coming your way. We’re adding more and more HD channels all the time. "

...It would be nice to know when "soon" means.


Here's the link:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/learn/cable/hdtv.html

Interesting! I just looked yesterday and the old site was up.

However I did not see the part where it said "More to come." I'll look around a bit more.

Edit: Found it. As you said "We're adding more channels all the time." Well, that's an out and outright lie. When is the last time they added an HD channel? Wasn't it the fall, Big Ten HD? I don't recall any others since then and we are close to February. That was September. 5 months hardly qualifies as "all the time."

I really am sick of these stations running constant weather crawlers during entertainment shows.
WKYC seems to be proud that they can put three lines of information on the bottom of the screen along with a radar map that is useless. They take up 25-30% of the screen and who the hell can read lines lines of info and pay attention to the show being broadcast at the same time?
If the damn weather alerts are so important, just pull the show off the air and hit us with weather stuff. Not sure what good 3-2 is if the need to disrupt 3 and 3-1 with this stuff.
No wonder more and more people are watching the cable networks.

What ever happened to the days when the stations would only place the letter "W" on the screen during bad weather?

Has anyone else lost the MGMHD channel here on TWC? I lost this channel about 3 weeks ago and thought it was just a temporary thing. I'm on the old Mentor Comcast system. I just left an E-mail to TWC service and I tried a phone call but the CSR wanted to know the channel # and I am not in fromt of my TV. I explained that TWC only has about ten HD channels and he should be able to find it fairly easy. I was told to call back when I'm at home. The phone call was every bit as "helpfull" as I expected. Hopefully an E-mail reply will shed some light or my friends here on the Cleveland forum will at least let me know if this is just a Mentor thing or all of TWC Ohio.

Ray

Has anyone else lost the MGMHD channel here on TWC? I lost this channel about 3 weeks ago and thought it was just a temporary thing. I'm on the old Mentor Comcast system. I just left an E-mail to TWC service and I tried a phone call but the CSR wanted to know the channel # and I am not in fromt of my TV. I explained that TWC only has about ten HD channels and he should be able to find it fairly easy. I was told to call back when I'm at home. The phone call was every bit as "helpfull" as I expected. Hopefully an E-mail reply will shed some light or my friends here on the Cleveland forum will at least let me know if this is just a Mentor thing or all of TWC Ohio.

Ray

Heh heh. This one time I gotta side with the CSR. How the heck can he tell you if it's on your screen if you're not home to look at it.:)

Sorry I can't help you, I dumped that "special" tier a while back. If it's not something I watch, why pay for it?

What ever happened to the days when the stations would only place the letter "W" on the screen during bad weather?

Since I watch 85% of television through recordings I can't tell you how aggravating it is to have those warnings come up. Totally useless to me now that they are 3 to 4 weeks old!

Growing up in Southern California I never saw this stuff until I moved to Northern Kentucky in 1997. I lived in New Jersey for 1 year in 1981 and I don't remember seeing anything at all about weather warnings on television during prime time. And I also lived 1 school year in 1969 in Lowell, Massachusetts and the only time school closed was when we had a storm like we are having today, and weather warnings? You gotta be kidding!;)

WKYC.com reports that the House of Representatives once again have defeated the bill to delay the digital transition..


http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=106025&catid=33

WKYC.com reports that the House of Representatives once again have defeated the bill to delay the digital transition..


http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=106025&catid=33

Great news!!!! I find it hard to believe but it is an AP article. I had to believe with a unanimous vote in the Senate it had to pass, specially with a Democratic majority. Too bad the article didn't have more details.

Great news!!!! I find it hard to believe but it is an AP article. I had to believe with a unanimous vote in the Senate it had to pass, specially with a Democratic majority. Too bad the article didn't have more details.

I think the bill needed a two-thirds majority to pass.

I think the bill needed a two-thirds majority to pass.

No, that only applies to an override of a veto.

No, that only applies to an override of a veto.
For some reason this needs a 2/3 majority. I'm quite politically savvy, but am baffled as to why the Democrats needed a 2/3 majority for passage. My favorite quote from this article (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090128/ap_on_hi_te/tec_digital_tv_transition_6):
"We could do nothing worse than to delay this transition date," Barton said. "The bill is a solution looking for a problem that exists mostly in the mind of the Obama administration."...and approximately 6.5 million Americans according to The Nielsen Co.

I won't lose sleep over this, but seeing that receiver program is bankrupt and it won't be possible to get coupons to those who need them, millions will be without OTA programming for probably a couple plus months. Granted, losing the signal will make people leap to action to remedy their lack of TV and that will help move this forward, but the Federal Government will need to be able to move funds out very quickly, of course, while making sure they aren't being duped out of billions like the Bush Admin always seemed to manage to do.

Overall, this will hurt the Republicans seeing that people not having TV are going to be grumpy and ask why the TV was turned off. When it is told to them the Republicans squashed the delay, they'll focus disdain that direction and honestly, the Republicans can't afford any bad will against their already battered party.

No, that only applies to an override of a veto.

You are incorrect. Here is the detailed result of the vote: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-41

You are incorrect. Here is the detailed result of the vote: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-41

No, you're incorrect. I don't know why this bill needed 2/3 majority, but I present to you the Constitution of The United States:

Section 7. All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.

Every order, resolution, or vote to which the concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the same shall take effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill.

That trumps your article.;)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section7

In a sense you're kind of right. But not exactly.

TiVo offers more ways to change your aspect then SA, but you cannot change the aspect on HD unless you have it set for 4:3 mode. That's using TiVo only. TiVo has a smart mode where it will adjust for either 4:3 or 16:9 but I do not like bars so I will set it for 16:9. If I need to stretch HD, and I never do I'll put up with side bars on that I can do it with my television.

I'd hardly call it a limitation, the theory being "why stretch HD?" which for the life of me I don't know why you would. But to each his own.

I don't stretch HD. I DO NOT stretch ANY program. What I was talking about is using the "zoom" setting since WFMJ goes back to SD to run the school closing banner. Since NBC's analog feed is letterbox, it would be windowboxed on HD channel. So I said why not just "blow up" the picture to 16:9 and cut off the weather banner?

And I'm still pissed at Tivo, it sounds like they are aiding and abetting and helping people watch their HDTVs the wrong way. On my new 4250HDC box, you cannot stretch or zoom any channel(I love that box!) and on the 8300HD you can stretch or zoom with the # button, but you cannot stretch all the SD channels, it goes back to OAR with bars when you change channels.

For some reason this needs a 2/3 majority. I'm quite politically savvy, but am baffled as to why the Democrats needed a 2/3 majority for passage. My favorite quote from this article (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090128/ap_on_hi_te/tec_digital_tv_transition_6):
...and approximately 6.5 million Americans according to The Nielsen Co.

<snip>

Overall, this will hurt the Republicans seeing that people not having TV are going to be grumpy and ask why the TV was turned off. When it is told to them the Republicans squashed the delay, they'll focus disdain that direction and honestly, the Republicans can't afford any bad will against their already battered party.
Dems can pass this on their own with a floor vote. This was just a game by the Democrat House leadership knowing that the Republicans would take the responsible position.

"Gene Kimmelman, vice president for federal policy at the Consumers Union, which has been lobbying for a delay, said he hopes House Democrats bring the bill up again for a regular floor vote, which would only require majority support to pass. Wednesday's vote took place under a special procedure that required two-thirds support for passage.

Of course, the MSM will portray this as a Republican negative, not an abdication of responsibility by the Dems (see lead for your Yahoo article and WKYC link from Tim Lones as proof).

I don't stretch HD. I DO NOT stretch ANY program. What I was talking about is using the "zoom" setting since WFMJ goes back to SD to run the school closing banner. Since NBC's analog feed is letterbox, it would be windowboxed on HD channel. So I said why not just "blow up" the picture to 16:9 and cut off the weather banner?

And I'm still pissed at Tivo, it sounds like they are aiding and abetting and helping people watch their HDTVs the wrong way. On my new 4250HDC box, you cannot stretch or zoom any channel(I love that box!) and on the 8300HD you can stretch or zoom with the # button, but you cannot stretch all the SD channels, it goes back to OAR with bars when you change channels.

First, I didn't say you did stretch it which is why I worded it the way I did. Once again you read the post incorrectly.

Second, I'm not going to engage you on this. We've been asked several times to stop the bickering on this and I admit I have plugged TiVo a couple of times but I've tried to refer to it as "my DVR" so there would not be a debate. On my post concerning stretching all I said was I couldn't stretch HD. Which is true, I can't but you had to jump in with the TiVo stuff again. I'm not going there.

"Gene Kimmelman, vice president for federal policy at the Consumers Union, which has been lobbying for a delay, said he hopes House Democrats bring the bill up again for a regular floor vote, which would only require majority support to pass. Wednesday's vote took place under a special procedure that required two-thirds support for passage.



Thank's ajstan, I was looking for something that explained the 2/3 thing. Ordinarily just a majority is needed to pass.

I know my Constitution.;)

I noticed that Time Warner redesigned their webpage to the 21st century. There was an HD section that says "More HD Channels Are Coming Soon
More crystal-clear entertainment is coming your way. We’re adding more and more HD channels all the time. "

...It would be nice to know when "soon" means.


Here's the link:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/learn/cable/hdtv.html

Also note that the graphics on the Start Over tab are the Navigator graphics, which means sometime this year Cleveland is also getting Navigator for Start Over to work. I can't believe the site changed, I was just there yesterday and it was the old, outdated one.

"soon" Must mean very soon, since TWC never used to have anything listed about adding more channels or Start Over. Also, there must be another Navigator conversion coming, since I see nothing about the SARA guide on that site.

Has anyone else lost the MGMHD channel here on TWC? I lost this channel about 3 weeks ago and thought it was just a temporary thing. I'm on the old Mentor Comcast system. I just left an E-mail to TWC service and I tried a phone call but the CSR wanted to know the channel # and I am not in fromt of my TV. I explained that TWC only has about ten HD channels and he should be able to find it fairly easy. I was told to call back when I'm at home. The phone call was every bit as "helpfull" as I expected. Hopefully an E-mail reply will shed some light or my friends here on the Cleveland forum will at least let me know if this is just a Mentor thing or all of TWC Ohio.

Ray

Do you have a Tivo or cable card device? It might be that area changed that channel to SDV. Or TWC made a mistake and removed it. MGMHD and the other 3 channels are coming in on my TV.

Interesting! I just looked yesterday and the old site was up.

However I did not see the part where it said "More to come." I'll look around a bit more.

Edit: Found it. As you said "We're adding more channels all the time." Well, that's an out and outright lie. When is the last time they added an HD channel? Wasn't it the fall, Big Ten HD? I don't recall any others since then and we are close to February. That was September. 5 months hardly qualifies as "all the time."

Now, now, don't anger the HD gods who control the adding of HD channels!! :D:D Those new channels will be coming soon enough, I know it. Especially since they are now being so open on their new site.

For what it's worth the local lead tech told me that Time Warner is aiming for late February with SDV in our area. They are currently testing the TiVo SDV adapters in Akron and getting the servers ready for them.

Channel 436 doesn't come in for me and hasn't since the last TiVo 11.0 update, which is why I was talking to him in the first place. It sounds like North Ridgeville and Mentor TiVo customers are having the same problem that we had with the 9.4 summer update last year with lost channels.

For what it's worth the local lead tech told me that Time Warner is aiming for late February with SDV in our area. They are currently testing the TiVo SDV adapters in Akron and getting the servers ready for them.

Channel 436 doesn't come in for me and hasn't since the last TiVo 11.0 update, which is why I was talking to him in the first place. It sounds like North Ridgeville and Mentor TiVo customers are having the same problem that we had with the 9.4 summer update last year with lost channels.

Are you "legacy TWC", former Adelphia or former Comcast?

Also, I have to find the address, but twcneo.com has had a page where you can order "tuning adapters".

Akron already has several SDV channels live. The shopping tier and most of the NBA/NHL/ESPN sports packages in the 700s. My guess is that's what they're talking about for late February in your area. That's the biggest thing with SDV, once that works, they can start adding other new channels.

I'm in the old Comcast area.

I'm already registered for the TiVo SD adapter. I'm the one that brought it to the attention of this forum about the SDV adapter registration actually.

Oh yeah, that was so long ago I must have forgotten about it! :D

But here's the link again, in case anyone new is interested:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/cable/dvrhddvr/dtaform.html

Also, TWC has a nice new Q&A page about HDTV, SDV, Digital Cable, etc.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/site.faqs/Cable#HDTV+Cable+Service
If they're getting ready to go with SDV in the Comcast area, they must be almost ready to have SDV across the entire system. I'm in shock, I've never seen TWC work this fast or be this open. They must be in trouble with their lack of HD.

For what it's worth the local lead tech told me that Time Warner is aiming for late February with SDV in our area. They are currently testing the TiVo SDV adapters in Akron and getting the servers ready for them.

Channel 436 doesn't come in for me and hasn't since the last TiVo 11.0 update, which is why I was talking to him in the first place. It sounds like North Ridgeville and Mentor TiVo customers are having the same problem that we had with the 9.4 summer update last year with lost channels.

I don't know if I get that channel or not. When's the next Cavs game? I'll give it a look.

Also you will notice we still don't have guide data for channel 326! Inundated and I both sent emails to Tribune Media, and I have a new case number.

If I get it I'll let you know. I'll pm you with some further info.

Oh yeah, that was so long ago I must have forgotten about it! :D

But here's the link again, in case anyone new is interested:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/cable/dvrhddvr/dtaform.html

Also, TWC has a nice new Q&A page about HDTV, SDV, Digital Cable, etc.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/site.faqs/Cable#HDTV+Cable+Service
If they're getting ready to go with SDV in the Comcast area, they must be almost ready to have SDV across the entire system. I'm in shock, I've never seen TWC work this fast or be this open. They must be in trouble with their lack of HD.

I already got on the list, but I need two. Maybe I should request another one?;)

Thanks nickdawg for posting that.

I already got on the list, but I need two. Maybe I should request another one?;)

Thanks nickdawg for posting that.

So we know SDV is live in Akron(which also includes the legacy TWC area with Navigator), former Comcast is on the way to having SDV(February as mentioned earlier). Now all we need to know is Cleveland/Adelphia. That's the last piece of the puzzle. Once that's ready to go, new channels are coming.

Maybe I'll win the "cyber bet" after all!! :cool::cool::cool:

So we know SDV is live in Akron(which also includes the legacy TWC area with Navigator), former Comcast is on the way to having SDV(February as mentioned earlier). Now all we need to know is Cleveland/Adelphia. That's the last piece of the puzzle. Once that's ready to go, new channels are coming.

Maybe I'll win the "cyber bet" after all!! :cool::cool::cool:

OK. And maybe the Easter bunny will bring your SDV in a big basket! Yeah that will happen.

OK. And maybe the Easter bunny will bring your SDV in a big basket! Yeah that will happen.

The Easter Bunny will be bringing me (and you) USA HD, F/X HD, SCIFI HD and many others!!

I'm sad now. I just watched my episode of Psych for the week on UHD. Too bad I had to suffer through a damn promo for Monk and Psych---on USA!!:eek::eek:

:mad::mad::mad:

Does anyone know if these switching boxes (sdv) will work with a TV that has a cablecard?

Does anyone know if these switching boxes (sdv) will work with a TV that has a cablecard?
No unfortunately you will have to get digital service and a box.

Does anyone know if these switching boxes (sdv) will work with a TV that has a cablecard?

No, only Tivos. But fortunately you will need a digital cable box, which opens the door to many great new services. You'll get an interactive program guide, a channel banner that tells you what show is on and what channel you're tuned to, access to many free Video on Demand services and many new services in the future, such as Start Over, where you can watch shows in their entirety without having to record it.

You'll really be amazed by what you'll get for $7 a month for a digital cable box:D. A much better experience than just a cable card and an awful TV set tuner:(.

Also, you do not have to get "digital service". Only a digital box. The Digital Tier channels(in red on your channel lineup card) are an extra $5, but you're not forced to pay for them if you don't want them.

No, only Tivos. But fortunately you will need a digital cable box, which opens the door to many great new services. You'll get an interactive program guide, a channel banner that tells you what show is on and what channel you're tuned to, access to many free Video on Demand services and many new services in the future, such as Start Over, where you can watch shows in their entirety without having to record it.

You'll really be amazed by what you'll get for $7 a month for a digital cable box:D. A much better experience than just a cable card and an awful TV set tuner:(.

Also, you do not have to get "digital service". Only a digital box. The Digital Tier channels(in red on your channel lineup card) are an extra $5, but you're not forced to pay for them if you don't want them.

We agree a bit on this, but as usual you like to play devil's advocate. I think that the service and the converter box is indeed a deal, however the amount of technology that you claim it has is based on your limited knowledge of what is truly out there.

Suffice to say however, nickdawg is (gulp) right.:p;)

I have to go to the doctor now, once again I have serious headaches from banging my head against the wall. Not just you nickdawg, I got someone else who is getting under my skin.

We agree a bit on this, but as usual you like to play devil's advocate. I think that the service and the converter box is indeed a deal, however the amount of technology that you claim it has is based on your limited knowledge of what is truly out there.



What? "Limited Knowledge"? Even though I may be clueless about Tivo, I do know that the technology in a digital cable box is far superior to a crappy TV tuner, with a cable card.

What? "Limited Knowledge"? Even though I may be clueless about Tivo, I do know that the technology in a digital cable box is far superior to a crappy TV tuner, with a cable card.

Thank you for proving my point.

Thank you for proving my point.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused:
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused:

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused:
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Of course you are.

I'll explain it to you later. Using blackberrry now
.

No unfortunately you will have to get digital service and a box.

Thanks for your answer.

No, only Tivos. But fortunately you will need a digital cable box, which opens the door to many great new services. You'll get an interactive program guide, a channel banner that tells you what show is on and what channel you're tuned to, access to many free Video on Demand services and many new services in the future, such as Start Over, where you can watch shows in their entirety without having to record it.

You'll really be amazed by what you'll get for $7 a month for a digital cable box:D. A much better experience than just a cable card and an awful TV set tuner:(.

Also, you do not have to get "digital service". Only a digital box. The Digital Tier channels(in red on your channel lineup card) are an extra $5, but you're not forced to pay for them if you don't want them.

Thanks for your answer also.

You'll really be amazed by what you'll get for $7 a month for a digital cable box:D. A much better experience than just a cable card and an awful TV set tuner:(.

TV set tuners are hardly awful!



Also, you do not have to get "digital service". Only a digital box. The Digital Tier channels(in red on your channel lineup card) are an extra $5, but you're not forced to pay for them if you don't want them.

You gotta read the fine print, nickdawg.;)

To receive all services, Digital Cable service, a remote control and lease of a Digital set-top box are required. Some services are not available to CableCARD customers. Not all equipment supports all services. All services may not be available in all areas. HD Services require the use of an HD box and television. Subject to change without notice. Some restrictions apply.

If he has cable cards then he is already receiving a charge for digital service. He would then have to pay for the box. But there is a charge for digital service, you don't just pay for the box.

I put my request in for an HD converter coupon on the Sunday the program ran out of money and they began to create a wait list. Yesturday I recieved my coupon in the mail so I must have just got in under the wire. Now I need to see whay kind of box to get.

I still have not heard if anyone else has lost the MGMHD movie channel (473) on TWC. Any other TWC customers out there with the HD tier???


Ray

I picked up one of the Zenith 900 DTT boxes early on in the process..Very good tuner. They have since come out with an improved box that has analog pass through (The ability to watch low power stations after the conversion)..I know the RCA boxes are at WalMart..

My understanding is that Zenith gives the most bang for your buck.

My understanding is that Zenith gives the most bang for your buck.

Hook,

I think I heard that Zenith is the way to go too. I will probably spend some time at the OTA HD forum before I make a decision. I know they had started a thread that rated the boxes when the coupons first came out.

Ray

I misspoke..The Zenith is the one I have..Zenith I've heard nothing but good about..

The Zenith 901 is the one that has the analog pass-through. In every other way it's the same as a 900. I'm surprised that there are still 900's on the market. I got my 901 late Spring '08. I like it, it's easy to set-up and has the ability to have the broadcaster's set your view (now if only some of them start using that feature at their end).

Has anyone else noticed that WEWS has started the horrible practice of running promo graphics on top of a program (just like TBS)? I've seen it on both syndicated and ABC programs, and no it's definitly from WEWS not ABC.

There must be some financial incentive for WEWS to invest in the equipment to run these annoying and distracting promo's. I doubt a single viewer finds these popups informative.

Has anyone else noticed that WEWS has started the horrible practice of running promo graphics on top of a program (just like TBS)? I've seen it on both syndicated and ABC programs, and no it's definitly from WEWS not ABC.

There must be some financial incentive for WEWS to invest in the equipment to run these annoying and distracting promo's. I doubt a single viewer finds these popups informative.

I've had it on WEWS for a while now, with the news but I can't say I've actually been watching. I just took a look and all I noticed is that it's in SD.

Has anyone else noticed that WEWS has started the horrible practice of running promo graphics on top of a program (just like TBS)? I've seen it on both syndicated and ABC programs, and no it's definitly from WEWS not ABC.

There must be some financial incentive for WEWS to invest in the equipment to run these annoying and distracting promo's. I doubt a single viewer finds these popups informative.

Those animated pop-ups are called snipes in the biz, and I find them annoying also. The manufacturers of graphics hardware now market the ability to do these snipes in their product brochures (http://www.evertz.com/products/HD9725LG).

Those animated pop-ups are called snipes in the biz, and I find them annoying also. The manufacturers of graphics hardware now market the ability to do these snipes in their product brochures (http://www.evertz.com/products/HD9725LG).

That's the most horrendous thing I've ever seen.

16 logos can be keyed simultaneously?? :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Like a nightmare...;)

Has anyone else noticed that WEWS has started the horrible practice of running promo graphics on top of a program (just like TBS)? I've seen it on both syndicated and ABC programs, and no it's definitly from WEWS not ABC.

There must be some financial incentive for WEWS to invest in the equipment to run these annoying and distracting promo's. I doubt a single viewer finds these popups informative.

I'll have to find the address, but if they're running it on ABC programming, you can complain to the network. ABC is supposed to be very opposed to on screen clutter(notice ABC HD is crap free) and they even don't like affiliates cluttering the screen. Maybe WEWS will get in trouble!! :D

..... looks like it will pass next week. :(

..... looks like it will pass next week. :(
Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/29/AR2009012904496.html?wprss=rss_technology)

The Senate passed the bill again and set it up to win by a mere majority in the House. Passage seems imminent.

Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/29/AR2009012904496.html?wprss=rss_technology)

The Senate passed the bill again and set it up to win by a mere majority in the House. Passage seems imminent.

Yes, I heard about this the same day I read the link that it failed!

This will cause confusion amongst the vast majority of the country affecting many millions more then the 5 million that would have been affected the last time. Not to mention what it will cost tax payers if broadcasters are forced to keep analog on. I haven't read the link yet so I don't know how detailed the info is.:(

Something happened to my cable signal Wednesday overnight which caused me to lose my RoadRunner connection, made my analog channels snowy and ghosty and caused me to lose some digital channels entirely. While stepping through the lineup (on my SA8300) last night, I noticed that stations on the digital tier (ch 100 and up) that were duplicated on the analog tier were actually in analog on the digital tier! For example, Fox News, which is on 352 as well as 38 actually had the analog signal mapped to 352. It would be interesting to know if this is just happening in the former Adelphia area (I believe I'm on the same system that Hookbill is on) or elsewhere too. I guess it kind of shocked me....

While stepping through the lineup (on my SA8300) last night, I noticed that stations on the digital tier (ch 100 and up) that were duplicated on the analog tier were actually in analog on the digital tier! For example, Fox News, which is on 352 as well as 38 actually had the analog signal mapped to 352. It would be interesting to know if this is just happening in the former Adelphia area (I believe I'm on the same system that Hookbill is on) or elsewhere too. I guess it kind of shocked me....

Hate to burst your bubble on this one, but even though they are over 100 they are just mirror copies of the analog channel. They are not digital. And they don't take additional bandwith.

I wonder how many others think that those mirror channels are digital?

Oh and I hope everything is back to normal now.:)

Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/29/AR2009012904496.html?wprss=rss_technology)

The Senate passed the bill again and set it up to win by a mere majority in the House. Passage seems imminent.

Yes, it was the House vote I was referring too. Tracking shows it as a slam dunk. As the Cleveland/NEO market is usually the follower and late adopter of most anything, I'd guess most of the broadcasters in our market will wait till (or closer to) the June 12th date to shut down their analogs. :(

Hopefully I underestimate our market, but I doubt it. :eek:

^^NOT GOING TO PASS!!

This is a Friday. Once the weekend is over, we'll be in February, with about 15 days to go. No way the date will be changed that close to the actual date.

I have HD tier and still have mgmhd as of last night.
The APEX DTV box is junk but all HHGREGG carries.

^^NOT GOING TO PASS!!

This is a Friday. Once the weekend is over, we'll be in February, with about 15 days to go. No way the date will be changed that close to the actual date.

nickdawg, I'm totally on your side on this one on how you feel, but I gotta be honest even the day the second vote didn't go through they were saying they were going to try it again.

With only a majority vote needed, it's not going to fail. What surprises me is Congress knows this yet Republican house members voted against it despite what their Republican members in the Senate voted on.

Once again, it's going to happen. Unfortunately.

^^NOT GOING TO PASS!!

This is a Friday. Once the weekend is over, we'll be in February, with about 15 days to go. No way the date will be changed that close to the actual date.Well, unless the Democrats have 70ish members impeached from the House, it seems terribly unlikely that this won't pass a simple majority vote.

Well, unless the Democrats have 70ish members impeached from the House, it seems terribly unlikely that this won't pass a simple majority vote.


Heh heh.:)

That's exactly what happens in nickdawg's world.;) It's located in the Great State of Denial!!:D

I have HD tier and still have mgmhd as of last night.
The APEX DTV box is junk but all HHGREGG carries.

My MGM HD mysteriously reappeared yesturday. I think they may have read my Wenesday's E-mail and realized they somehow accidentally blocked this channel from my box. I have not recieved a reply to my e-mail so I am only assuming they read it and reactted accordingly.


Oh. I also believe its a mistake to push this digital conversion out again. When I bought my first HD set it was originally suppose to convert over by the end of 2005. Come on already!

Ray

Oh. I also believe its a mistake to push this digital conversion out again. When I bought my first HD set it was originally suppose to convert over by the end of 2005. Come on already!

Ray

Was it 2005? I thought it was 2007.

Doesn't matter, first time it was pushed out by the broadcasters. This time it's being pushed out by maybe 7 million people, which is a shame considering the vast majority is ready and so are the broadcasters.

Does anyone know for sure if the clause to allow broadcasters to decide if they want to broadcast in digital only is in this bill?

Here is a question, would it be possible to force stations that are moving frequencies to meet the deadline and then optionally extend the deadline for the remaining stations? This way transitions can be made that will stop other stations from being prevented from switching.

Obviously, too late for this to be the option regarding the legislation.

^^NOT GOING TO PASS!!

This is a Friday. Once the weekend is over, we'll be in February, with about 15 days to go. No way the date will be changed that close to the actual date.

Wanna bet? :cool:

Sadly it looks like it will pass. :mad:

Here is a question, would it be possible to force stations that are moving frequencies to meet the deadline and then optionally extend the deadline for the remaining stations? This way transitions can be made that will stop other stations from being prevented from switching.

Obviously, too late for this to be the option regarding the legislation.

That would make too much sense. ;):D

[QUOTE=hookbill;15693722]Was it 2005? I thought it was 2007.
QUOTE]

Hook,

I'm not sure when exactly it was but it was at least a few years back. Either way I dont understand this need to push it back again. Perhaps it will stimilate the economy in some strange way.

Ray

[QUOTE=hookbill;15693722]Was it 2005? I thought it was 2007.
QUOTE]

Hook,

I'm not sure when exactly it was but it was at least a few years back. Either way I dont understand this need to push it back again. Perhaps it will stimilate the economy in some strange way.

Ray

How about a govt program to purchase 6.5 million 42" flat panel HDTV's for these needy people?

THAT'S a stimulus! :D

[QUOTE=Rbuchina;15694405]

How about a govt program to purchase 6.5 million 42" flat panel HDTV's for these needy people?

THAT'S a stimulus! :D

Not with my money you don't!:D

Geeze can you imagine if they did something like that. Instead of "A chicken in every pot" (FDR, for those who don't know) it would be "A flat screen in every living room!":eek:

[QUOTE=hookbill;15693722]Was it 2005? I thought it was 2007.
QUOTE]

Hook,

I'm not sure when exactly it was but it was at least a few years back. Either way I dont understand this need to push it back again. Perhaps it will stimilate the economy in some strange way.

Ray

If the FCC has to pay for the cost how does that stimulate the economy?

Details, I want details!!!!

I'm going to google now.

I got my gov't coupons request in just before they ran out too. Just got them last week, and picked up the Insignia NS-DXA1-APT, which from what I've read, is exactly the same as the Zenith 901DTT that everyone has talked up, just different branding on the outside obviously. Haven't tested it yet, but I will soon. I chose Bestbuy because I had reward $ to use, and I don't like radioshack (I think the only place the Zenith box is sold now that CC is closed).

If the FCC has to pay for the cost how does that stimulate the economy?

Details, I want details!!!!

I'm going to google now.

This might just be crazy talk, but if the FCC, or the gov't, or whomever is going to cover the cost for the broadcasters to keep analog up until June, shouldn't they just put that money into the coupon program to satisfy the millions on the waitlist?!?! :confused::confused::confused: Then it may bring the number "unprepared" down to a reasonable level to NOT delay it. :rolleyes:

This might just be crazy talk, but if the FCC, or the gov't, or whomever is going to cover the cost for the broadcasters to keep analog up until June, shouldn't they just put that money into the coupon program to satisfy the millions on the waitlist?!?! :confused::confused::confused: Then it may bring the number "unprepared" down to a reasonable level to NOT delay it. :rolleyes:

Nope, that wouldn't work. The morons who let their coupons expire or didn't apply until the last minute would still procrastinate, and further since they don't look at the news (obviously) they would be even more confused.

I can't find anything except the Post Article yespage posted, and that didn't even pop up in google.

This might just be crazy talk, but if the FCC, or the gov't, or whomever is going to cover the cost for the broadcasters to keep analog up until June, shouldn't they just put that money into the coupon program to satisfy the millions on the waitlist?!?! :confused::confused::confused: Then it may bring the number "unprepared" down to a reasonable level to NOT delay it. :rolleyes:

Cuz you are not thinking like govt. Why do one when you can do both? :rolleyes:

Here is a question, would it be possible to force stations that are moving frequencies to meet the deadline and then optionally extend the deadline for the remaining stations? This way transitions can be made that will stop other stations from being prevented from switching.

Obviously, too late for this to be the option regarding the legislation.

I think this is a pretty good idea.

I also think that if this is delayed, it will still cause more confusion. The people/companies that bought the old analog space will be itching to start using it, and as TV stations drop off analog, these companies may start using the airwaves... this could cause interference for others, etc. It's just easier for everyone to drop analog at the same time... say Feb. 17. :D

I found another article here (http://uk.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUKN2932967920090130). This article clearly states that stations can independently go ahead with the digital transition.

Here's a partial:

The bill is essentially the same that previously passed the Senate, but with a few minor modifications from the House.

Senate Commerce Committee Chairman John Rockefeller, a West Virginia Democrat, and Texas Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison worked out the compromise bill.

Hutchison said the delay was voluntary and television stations could go ahead if they wished with digital transmission on Feb. 17 as scheduled and drop analog transmission.

The measure now goes back to the House.

[QUOTE=Rbuchina;15694405]

How about a govt program to purchase 6.5 million 42" flat panel HDTV's for these needy people?

THAT'S a stimulus! :D

How about a government program to purchase 6.5 million turds. That way these people can smoke them in hell.

I'll even be willing to buy the 6.5 million turds myself!! :D:D:D:D:D

Wanna bet? :cool:

Sadly it looks like it will pass. :mad:

Every media outlet that talks about it still says the 17th. That's very close to being 17 days away. To delay it now would show absolute stupidity.

I'll have to get a list of names who voted in favor of this, so I know who NOT to vote for next time! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

..............
Hutchison said the delay was voluntary and television stations could go ahead if they wished with digital transmission on Feb. 17 as scheduled and drop analog transmission.

The measure now goes back to the House.

Yeah. None of the delay bills suggested otherwise. The question is "will they" voluntarily shut off long before June 12.

[QUOTE=toby10;15694467]

How about a government program to purchase 6.5 million turds. That way these people can smoke them in hell.

I'll even be willing to buy the 6.5 million turds myself!! :D:D:D:D:D

HA! :cool:;):D

Every media outlet that talks about it still says the 17th. That's very close to being 17 days away. To delay it now would show absolute stupidity.

I'll have to get a list of names who voted in favor of this, so I know who NOT to vote for next time! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Better yet, boycott the stations that DON'T flip the switch on Feb 17th. ;)

Exactly how much does 6.5 million turd cost?;)

[QUOTE=hookbill;15694587][QUOTE=toby10;15694467]

"A chicken in every pot" (FDR, for those who don't know)

Actually it was Herbert Hoover who first used this slogan in his 1928 presidential campaign, not FDR.

[QUOTE=hookbill;15694587]
"A chicken in every pot" (FDR, for those who don't know)

Actually it was Herbert Hoover who first used this slogan in his 1928 presidential campaign, not FDR.

After researching I found several sources that confirmed this. He (Hoover) said a "chicken in every pot and a car in every garage."

I was always under the impression that FDR said this. Hoover was beat in the election against Roosevelt, and for some reason they named a dam after him. I think. That's Hoover, not Roosevelt.:confused::confused:

So I guess it's "a 42" flat screen in every house and a BMW in every garage?"

Hey berenga, post correctly so you can get credit for catching my many mistakes.;)

I'd prefer the ZO-6 Corvette with all options for grocery shopping and doing cicle burnouts around the turn-around. And I like a pot full of Mr. Chicken legs.
JJK

I took a look at the SDV diagnostic screen on the SA 4250. There is no apparent activity there at all. I went through several pages and all I saw is zeros.

EDIT: Fixed Suv to SDV. Crackberry error.

I took a look at the SUV diagnostic screen on the SA 4250. There is no apparent activity there at all. I went through several pages and all I saw is zeros.

Is there any category on one of the pages like "SDV Status" that says "SDV Enabled" or "SDV Not Enabled"?

When SDV was first enabled here, it just said "SDV Enabled" and everything else was zeros until they assigned a SDV frequency and started putting channels on SDV.

The ex-Comcast guy said a few pages back(if you can find it in all this OTA speculation) that SDV is supposed to go live in former Comcast sometime in February.

I notice that TWC added WVIZ Create on channel 365 today. If you ever wonder why I hate subchannels with such a passion, check out this channel. Right now there is no audio(probably a TWC mistake). But the picture is atrocious. Unwatchable.

I e-mailed WJW, the Chief Engineer of WJW responded on 1/29 with the following:

"We hope to have the equipment in place to transmit Seinfeld in HD sometime next week."

So it looks like if all goes well WJW will be showing Seinfeld in HD very soon.

I found this over on the main HDTV forum about Seinfeld in HD syndication. It looks like WJW might be TV station number three in Cleveland to offer HD recording/playback on syndicated shows.

Is there any category on one of the pages like "SDV Status" that says "SDV Enabled" or "SDV Not Enabled"?

When SDV was first enabled here, it just said "SDV Enabled" and everything else was zeros until they assigned a SDV frequency and started putting channels on SDV.

The ex-Comcast guy said a few pages back(if you can find it in all this OTA speculation) that SDV is supposed to go live in former Comcast sometime in February.


I only saw two things: either zero or no. Make that 3 I saw a few offs too.

I only saw two things: either zero or no. Make that 3 I saw a few offs too.

Then it must not be authorized yet. Under Authorized, it says "Yes" here and the various fields are filled in with numbers.

Does it say anything about a Frequency? Here it says "SDB Frequency 573.000 MHz".

Also, just today I noticed that all the channels from 319-330 are SDV with the exception of Versus and the new MLB channel. These are all the channels that cost extra in the "Digital Sports Tier". Looks like SDV is in full swing here. Now if only it moves to your area too!! C'mon TWC!! Don't let us down(like usual!!) :(

........I found this over on the main HDTV forum about Seinfeld in HD syndication. It looks like WJW might be TV station number three in Cleveland to offer HD recording/playback on syndicated shows.

I'm curious........ what's the difference on how they show non-HD recorded shows now and the future "enhancement"?

I assumed we were already getting SD shows upconverted to digital/HD now?

Thanks. :)