Then it must not be authorized yet. Under Authorized, it says "Yes" here and the various fields are filled in with numbers.

Does it say anything about a Frequency? Here it says "SDB Frequency 573.000 MHz".

Also, just today I noticed that all the channels from 319-330 are SDV with the exception of Versus and the new MLB channel. These are all the channels that cost extra in the "Digital Sports Tier". Looks like SDV is in full swing here. Now if only it moves to your area too!! C'mon TWC!! Don't let us down(like usual!!) :(

Geeze, nickdawg. What part of "no" and "0" did you not understand?:D;)

I remember the authorization part, I'll double check it in a bit but I really don't recall even seeing a yes there. I went through the entire thing searching for anything that I felt showed any life at all. I couldn't find any.

I did see some of the channels you mentioned a while back in the 900's but they appeared to be mirror channels, not SDV. I see nothing these days. And those channels I saw in the 900's were also available on my DVR's which you are well aware does not have SDV.

I don't think they have done squat around here and there is only 1 reason: They need to figure out what to do about SARA. Apparently they can't run Navigator and SARA at the same time and they can't convert SARA to Navigator.

I'd really like to see the box converted so I can see Navigator in action. Of course I only have an STB not a DVR so I wouldn't be doing any DVR comparisons.

I'd prefer the ZO-6 Corvette with all options for grocery shopping and doing cicle burnouts around the turn-around. And I like a pot full of Mr. Chicken legs.
JJK

Mr. Chicken is pretty good! I'd take the vette as well, heck yes!

But my wife would make me sell it. Insurance on that thing would be through the roof and I get a speeding ticket about once every 5 years. Even at 56 I'd still be up on the freeway doing 130 mph in that baby.

FWIW, my driving record is clean I beat my last ticket! :)

nickdawg, I forgot to mention if I didn't mention in my post after that guy in ex comcast area wrote, I think he's a TiVo owner. Anyway he said a lead tech told him that. Well, a lead tech told me in early in early 2007 that the channel change was going to happen in May. We all know how that worked out.:rolleyes:

nickdawg: glass is 1/2 full, buys into anything TW tells him.

hookbill: doesn't believe a word TW (or any cable company) say's until he sees it.

Every media outlet that talks about it still says the 17th. That's very close to being 17 days away. To delay it now would show absolute stupidity.

I'll have to get a list of names who voted in favor of this, so I know who NOT to vote for next time! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Well then welcome to the Republican Party, nickdawg!

Who would have known that all your ranting about GWB, FNC and other lefty targets was simply a matter of, "The nickdawg doth protest too much, methinks.":)

Well then welcome to the Republican Party, nickdawg!

Who would have known that all your ranting about GWB, FNC and other lefty targets was simply a matter of, "The nickdawg doth protest too much, methinks.":)

"Nickdawg: deep down inside you know he's right!" ;)

I notice that TWC added WVIZ Create on channel 365 today. If you ever wonder why I hate subchannels with such a passion, check out this channel. Right now there is no audio(probably a TWC mistake). But the picture is atrocious. Unwatchable.
==========================================================
I found this over on the main HDTV forum about Seinfeld in HD syndication. It looks like WJW might be TV station number three in Cleveland to offer HD recording/playback on syndicated shows.

WVIZ-DT has been having audio issues off and on (see the post a few pages back where somone was hearing WNCX insted of WVIZ's main channel audio). I experienced no audio on 25.1 the other day myself. Create and Ohio Channel did have audio then. This is from the OTA signal.

OK WEWS is one I know has syndicated HD, who is the second station?

Just to satisfy my own curiosity I went and attempted to hunt down a couple of the things nickdawg talked about. In regards to "frequency" there were many places it was located at but the bottom line on the MAIN SDV screen is shows 0. It shows 0 cable card channels. It shows that SDV is not active, however it is ready to activate, to activate call 877...........the TW CS #.

It would appear that it is perfectly capable of receiving SDV, but there is nothing going on and according to the history, there never has been.

In regards to the WVIZ subchannel, I saw that on my DVR as well. If the sound is dead usually that's a broadcast issue. It could be your cable cards as well, try changing channels if you are using a cable card box. That seems to work for me on the rare occasions it happens, and it has never been a problem with a recording.

The majority of you probably arn't interested but I did finally get guide data for MLB Network. Apparently the fine folks at the now farmed out TiVo customer service thought I said 362, not 326. Anyway 2 days after I called them back it was added on. Oddly enough I only got a message on one box about it, though it was added on both boxes guides.

Oh and I hope everything is back to normal now.:)
Yes, the tech came (on schedule!) yesterday afternoon and determined that the problem was from the tap outside, so he called the lineman. He arrived later in the afternoon and discovered a loose connector a few houses up the street (all underground utilities here, so he had to dig out a few ground boxes! I had pity on the tech and used my snowblower to open up the one in our tree lawn before he came... he was sure thankful!)

By 5 p.m. my RoadRunner service was up and running and my VOIP phone rang and all the TV stuff looked OK.... BUT.... after our company left last night I went to watch a program from the DVR and got the "Not Authorized" message. I then checked and found the HD+ tier was also missing. So I called CS and was on the phone for an hour with the first dufus who, after discovering that all the extras from my account had been wiped, wanted to send out a technician! Tuesday! After going round-and-round with him and finally getting cut off, I called again and this time got a nice lady who didn't understand how my account got FUBAR'd but added everything back using the TWC codes (instead of the old Adelphia ones) and cut my bill by about $10 in the process. It took her a little over a half hour to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, but when she was finished everything was back to normal and all my wife's recordings were still there.

I'm curious........ what's the difference on how they show non-HD recorded shows now and the future "enhancement"?

I assumed we were already getting SD shows upconverted to digital/HD now?

Thanks. :)

To show true HD(like WKYC and WEWS) they need different recording equipment, bigger hard drives:D, and different reception equipment to receive the HD feed of the show off the satellite.

The difference is huge. What you are watching right now is the SD analog channel, just upconverted to 720p/1080i. But shows like Seinfeld, 2.5 Men, Raymond and most current syndicated comedies dramas are available in HD. With the proper equipment, we would be watching these shows in HD, not SD upconvert.

OK WEWS is one I know has syndicated HD, who is the second station?

WKYC---Dr. Phil, Entertainment Tonight

Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy is also in HD. I believe Who Wants to be a Millionaire on WOIO is in HD as well.

Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy is also in HD. I believe Who Wants to be a Millionaire on WOIO is in HD as well.

:confused::confused::confused:

Last time I checked, nothing outside CBS network programming on WOIO is HD.

Wheel and Jeopardy have been HD on WEWS since fall 2006, that was the known channel. #2 is WKYC this year. WVIZ might actually be #3, since I've seen PBS HD programming in HD outside of primetime. Plus some promotional commercials are HD on WVIZ.

:confused::confused::confused:

Last time I checked, nothing outside CBS network programming on WOIO is HD.

Wheel and Jeopardy have been HD on WEWS since fall 2006, that was the known channel. #2 is WKYC this year. WVIZ might actually be #3, since I've seen PBS HD programming in HD outside of primetime. Plus some promotional commercials are HD on WVIZ.

I said "I think." That means I'm not sure. I checked and you're right it isn't in HD. I wasn't sure.

I don't see any syndicated programs that indicate HD. Their news however is in HD and I see some soaps that are listed in the daytime as HD. They are in fact part of CBS programming.

I said "I think." That means I'm not sure. I checked and you're right it isn't in HD. I wasn't sure.

I don't see any syndicated programs that indicate HD. Their news however is in HD and I see some soaps that are listed in the daytime as HD. They are in fact part of CBS programming.

According to Titan TV, King of Queens tonight at 11:35 and 12:05 is listed as HD. Also, the program guide has shown the WUAB syndication airings of 2.5 Men as HDTV. They are not.

"The Young and the Restless" has been HD for years. The first and only HD soap. I've always wondered why none of the others have picked up on that.

I just watched the 3D previews OTA tonight on 3.1 news and they were balls-ass outstanding although the glasses darkened the picture somewhat but your eyes adjusted. I like it but if they could only get rid of the glasses.
JJK

I just watched the 3D previews OTA tonight on 3.1 news and they were balls-ass outstanding although the glasses darkened the picture somewhat but your eyes adjusted. I like it but if they could only get rid of the glasses.
JJK

Where do you get the glasses?

What glasses? :confused:

I just watched the 3D previews OTA tonight on 3.1 news

the depth of this scene was impressive especially when you'd move your head
but couldn't watch an entire movie with those glasses on!

http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/c83ca0c5b22cf4c24b91e15bdd1ea80ceebc8274/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/ec585990-d238-012b-32d1-fc7b1eb61620/3dcapture_large.jpg

Where do you get the glasses?

customer service desk at K-Mart...

customer service desk at K-Mart...

Thanks!:)

Thanks!:)

Giant Eagle also has them. Look for the Sobe water display.

To show true HD(like WKYC and WEWS) they need different recording equipment, bigger hard drives:D, and different reception equipment to receive the HD feed of the show off the satellite.

The difference is huge. What you are watching right now is the SD analog channel, just upconverted to 720p/1080i. But shows like Seinfeld, 2.5 Men, Raymond and most current syndicated comedies dramas are available in HD. With the proper equipment, we would be watching these shows in HD, not SD upconvert.

But wouldn't that require that the show was filmed in HD? If not filmed in HD then it's all upconverted 480 to 720/1080, no?

Or am I not understanding this (quite possible)? ;)

But wouldn't that require that the show was filmed in HD? If not filmed in HD then it's all upconverted 480 to 720/1080, no?

Or am I not understanding this (quite possible)? ;)

I'm not the most scientific mind on this board but think of how we use to record music. We did it on tape, then when CD's came out they transfered the tapes do digital sound. Now they even have a way to wipe them clean so you don't hear the tape hiss.

I think it works the same way with HD, i.e., I saw "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" in HD on HDnet Movies, where I guarantee everything is in HD. No way was it filmed in HD.

Now did it look as good as something new? No. Just like the old CD's that were recorded off of tape it had flaws in it, but no doubt it was HD.

Giant Eagle also has them. Look for the Sobe water display.

Tanglewood square has a Kmart Jr and a Giant Eagle. I'm heading out now.

Thanks again, both of you.

I'm not the most scientific mind on this board but think of how we use to record music. We did it on tape, then when CD's came out they transfered the tapes do digital sound. Now they even have a way to wipe them clean so you don't hear the tape hiss.

I think it works the same way with HD, i.e., I saw "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" in HD on HDnet Movies, where I guarantee everything is in HD. No way was it filmed in HD.

Now did it look as good as something new? No. Just like the old CD's that were recorded off of tape it had flaws in it, but no doubt it was HD.

So they are re-mastering them in some way, not just upconverting them.

I think it works the same way with HD, i.e., I saw "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" in HD on HDnet Movies, where I guarantee everything is in HD. No way was it filmed in HD.

Now did it look as good as something new? No. Just like the old CD's that were recorded off of tape it had flaws in it, but no doubt it was HD.
Movies in that era were shot on film. Film has its flaws, but resolution isn't one of them. Old movies can look great in HD without any fancy processing. The resolution of the original film is still "better" than 1920x1080. So, in a sense, it was filmed in HD. :) (I put "better" in quotes because it's not a perfect comparison. Film is not digital, and the two have very different characteristics.)

Got my glasses at Giant Eagle in Twinsburg.
JJK

Jim Gilliland:
Very true. However it depends on what format they used to create the HD weather it was 90mm, 35mm, 16mm, Super 8. If they used 16 mm or Super 8 you will get a preponderance of film grain.
JJK

Jim Gilliland:
Very true. However it depends on what format they used to create the HD weather it was 90mm, 35mm, 16mm, Super 8. If they used 16 mm or Super 8 you will get a preponderance of film grain.
JJK

I don't think Cuckoo's Nest was filmed in 16 mm or Super 8, but 2 things I remember: 1. Seeing what looked to me as grain, and 2. Dolby 5.1 sound light was on but nothing out of rear speakers.

I usually don't do this but what does the weather have to do with it???? :)

hookbill:
What I should have explained is there were an awful lot of 35mm films reduced and copied to 16mm for projector viewing in the old days. I have seen some DVD's (that I purchased from Best Buy) that were atrocious with faded colors and huge noise components---"Sound of Music" being one of them, viewed on a 1080P tv with and upconvert player. I just assumed somebody in Tiawan made the copy for Best Buy.
Well if the weather is real cold the film does a lot of quivering. Don't believe that because I'm just funnin.
JJK

hookbill:
What I should have explained is there were an awful lot of 35mm films reduced and copied to 16mm for projector viewing in the old days. I have seen some DVD's (that I purchased from Best Buy) that were atrocious with faded colors and huge noise components---"Sound of Music" being one of them, viewed on a 1080P tv with and upconvert player. I just assumed somebody in Tiawan made the copy for Best Buy.
Well if the weather is real cold the film does a lot of quivering. Don't believe that because I'm just funnin.
JJK

Back in the old days of syndication distribution, it seemed that everyone was distributing their shows via horrible 16mm prints. I can't tell you the number of times I've changed the channel because I couldn't stand to watch those blurry, washed-out 16mm copies. It's so much cheaper to distribute contant digitally now, but coming up with a decent digital copy of an old classis means locating a good 35mm original and paying to have it cleaned up and re-transferred. In the end I think it's worth it though.

Hate to burst your bubble on this one, but even though they are over 100 they are just mirror copies of the analog channel. They are not digital. And they don't take additional bandwith.

I wonder how many others think that those mirror channels are digital?

Oh and I hope everything is back to normal now.:)

You are/were having a low signal condition and you need to contact service ( maybe got some water into your connection)

Back in the old days of syndication distribution, it seemed that everyone was distributing their shows via horrible 16mm prints. I can't tell you the number of times I've changed the channel because I couldn't stand to watch those blurry, washed-out 16mm copies. It's so much cheaper to distribute contant digitally now, but coming up with a decent digital copy of an old classis means locating a good 35mm original and paying to have it cleaned up and re-transferred. In the end I think it's worth it though.

and a lot of the old shows were done live and 'filmed' by kinescope which involved filming off a monitor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinescope

and a lot of the old shows were done live and 'filmed' by kinescope which involved filming off a monitor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinescope

That would be real old shows like The Honeymooners. In the 60's I believe everything was video taped.

But wouldn't that require that the show was filmed in HD? If not filmed in HD then it's all upconverted 480 to 720/1080, no?

Or am I not understanding this (quite possible)? ;)

Seinfeld was filmed in HD. Not actually HD, but it was filmed on 35mm. Film has a higher resolution than HD, so old movies or shows that were filmed can be shown in HD, and they look pretty good in most cases.

With Seinfeld, we will also be getting it in 16x9, because of the way it was filmed. When it was shown in the 90s, there wasn't a NBC HD, so the only versions shown on TV were 4:3 cut. With the new released HD episodes, the sides of the picture were "opened" to reveal more of the left and right of the scene, but some of the top and bottom were cut as a result. Of course that's open to debate over what the original aspect ratio is.

ME, I like the HD episodes on TBS and I hope they show up on WJW soon. I don't mind the cutting of the top and bottom, since the result is a full 16:9 picture.

Hi Hook - just saw this the other day and couldn't help but think you'd appreciate it. :)

I have to confess that I'm guily of owning #1 & #2 (Blackberry and Bluetooth headset).

You'll enjoy #3:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28039226/?pg=4#Tech_JerkGadgets

OK, need to duck in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . :D

TiVo

This is really only a problem if you must go on and on and on about it. And we know you must.

TiVo undoubtedly improves your ability to watch TV. It liberates you from the tyranny of network schedules. It lets you rewind live TV. It even goes out and finds new shows you'll like. So, go on with your bad self and enjoy your TV-watching, but for God's sake, please stop yapping about it in everyone's ears.

Here's why: It's TV. Which is to say, it's just not that important. It's not a hobby, it's not self-improving and it's not going to cure cancer. Practice won't make you better at it, and no matter how good your gadgets, the difference between seeing who's dancing with the stars now and you know, not, is ... hold on ... carry the one ... oh look at that: Not a big deal at all.

Cool if: You enjoy it quietly at home.

Not cool if: You talk about it like it's the product of successful stem-cell research.

Hi Hook - just saw this the other day and couldn't help but think you'd appreciate it. :)

I have to confess that I'm guily of owning #1 & #2 (Blackberry and Bluetooth headset).

You'll enjoy #3:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28039226/?pg=4#Tech_JerkGadgets

OK, need to duck in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . :D

TiVo

This is really only a problem if you must go on and on and on about it. And we know you must.

TiVo undoubtedly improves your ability to watch TV. It liberates you from the tyranny of network schedules. It lets you rewind live TV. It even goes out and finds new shows you'll like. So, go on with your bad self and enjoy your TV-watching, but for God's sake, please stop yapping about it in everyone's ears.

Here's why: It's TV. Which is to say, it's just not that important. It's not a hobby, it's not self-improving and it's not going to cure cancer. Practice won't make you better at it, and no matter how good your gadgets, the difference between seeing who's dancing with the stars now and you know, not, is ... hold on ... carry the one ... oh look at that: Not a big deal at all.

Cool if: You enjoy it quietly at home.

Not cool if: You talk about it like it's the product of successful stem-cell research.

Not surprising.:)

I also have a Blackberry and a Bluetooth headset. Anybody want to make something out of it?:D;)

I know the game hasn't started yet, but I can't tell you how impressed I am with the broadcast so far. Picture is crystal clear perfect, and it's 1080i and I have a 720p native set with my DVR set to convert to 720p.

That's how you talk about it, without talking about it.;)

TiVo

This is really only a problem if you must go on and on and on about it. And we know you must.

TiVo undoubtedly improves your ability to watch TV. It liberates you from the tyranny of network schedules. It lets you rewind live TV. It even goes out and finds new shows you'll like. So, go on with your bad self and enjoy your TV-watching, but for God's sake, please stop yapping about it in everyone's ears.

Here's why: It's TV. Which is to say, it's just not that important. It's not a hobby, it's not self-improving and it's not going to cure cancer. Practice won't make you better at it, and no matter how good your gadgets, the difference between seeing who's dancing with the stars now and you know, not, is ... hold on ... carry the one ... oh look at that: Not a big deal at all.

Cool if: You enjoy it quietly at home.

Not cool if: You talk about it like it's the product of successful stem-cell research.

I totally agree!!! :D:D:D:D IT'S JUST TV FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!! If the TV ever ran my life that much, I'd be scared. I'd probably just throw it out at that point! :p:p:p:p I turn it on and watch TV. Let's just leave it at that, OK? ;)

I got my gov't coupons request in just before they ran out too. Just got them last week, and picked up the Insignia NS-DXA1-APT, which from what I've read, is exactly the same as the Zenith 901DTT that everyone has talked up, just different branding on the outside obviously.

Yep, the Insignia APT model is indeed the Zenith DTT901 in different name.

The pre-APT Insignia is the 900.

I have one of each, and swear by them, as do most TV engineers. I have yet to see one TV station with video explaining converter boxes that doesn't have a Zenith/Insignia box in the video.

I totally agree!!! :D:D:D:D IT'S JUST TV FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!! If the TV ever ran my life that much, I'd be scared. I'd probably just throw it out at that point! :p:p:p:p I turn it on and watch TV. Let's just leave it at that, OK? ;)

One of the beauties of TiVo is that for the most part, it runs off by itself simplifying your TV life. I get what I want with very little fuss or muss, and I have Auto Record Wish Lists (ARWLs) that I set up 3 years ago still picking up shows without my intervention today.

Of course, I am on TiVo Community Forum, have been since 2003, and have met hundreds of TCF members over those 5-plus years.

But I can't remember the last time I posted a message actually about my TiVo box. :D

I don't know if I get that channel or not. When's the next Cavs game? I'll give it a look.

Also you will notice we still don't have guide data for channel 326! Inundated and I both sent emails to Tribune Media, and I have a new case number.


Since you wrote this, they finally got MLB on 326, and other stuff that's changed.

As far as FS Ohio/426 is concerned, I get it on my 8000HD, but it's still the HD Bonus channel in real life...until whenever FS converts the local arm of it to 24/7 HD/upconvert.

Whenever that is.

I don't know if my own TiVo has it, since it's an SD S2 standalone, and I blocked out all the 400-series HD channels so it doesn't go off and try to record something it can't get.

One of the beauties of TiVo is that for the most part, it runs off by itself simplifying your TV life. I get what I want with very little fuss or muss, and I have Auto Record Wish Lists (ARWLs) that I set up 3 years ago still picking up shows without my intervention today.

Of course, I am on TiVo Community Forum, have been since 2003, and have met hundreds of TCF members over those 5-plus years.

But I can't remember the last time I posted a message actually about my TiVo box. :D

My TV life is simple. I turn on the TV and watch. End of story. I guess some people like Hookbill-(didn't you say that you always see weather warnings late because you record stuff?). See, I don't record anything unless I have to. IF I'm not home or if two shows are on at the same time, then I record. Any other time I watch the shows live as they happen. What can I say, I like watching shows as they air. Like the Office and 30 Rock and ER on Thursdays. It's no fun recording it and watching it some other time. ER and the Office are not as fun on Saturday afternoon:p:p:p:p:p

To each his own. I enjoy time shifting, that way I see many more hours of television that I would not be able to see. That's why I'm a month behind on television, but eventually I will catch up.

I have whole series of programs recorded and stored that I haven't even looked at like "The Starter Wife" and "Legend of the Seeker." I'll save those for Summer instead of watching some dumb reality show.

As far as the article goes, that's one person's opinion and they are entitled to it. I know there is no reason for me to go on and on about it and quite honestly I don't think I do unless I'm defending it against an inferior product.

That's my one person's opinion. And those of us who have one think it isn't just television.

I'll stop here as to go on further would be launching off on another rant.

Without a DVR, it'd be much harder to catch all the classics on TCM. January was Jack Lemmon month, and I got to record a ton of Jack Lemmon movies.

To each his own. I enjoy time shifting, that way I see many more hours of television that I would not be able to see. That's why I'm a month behind on television, but eventually I will catch up.

I have whole series of programs recorded and stored that I haven't even looked at like "The Starter Wife" and "Legend of the Seeker." I'll save those for Summer instead of watching some dumb reality show.

As far as the article goes, that's one person's opinion and they are entitled to it. I know there is no reason for me to go on and on about it and quite honestly I don't think I do unless I'm defending it against an inferior product.

That's my one person's opinion. And those of us who have one think it isn't just television.

I'll stop here as to go on further would be launching off on another rant.

It's not TV, It's HBO. errr, umm, I mean Tivo. :p:D:D

Well, that's out of my system, back to normal conversation. For me, the DVR is for shows I wouldn't get to see otherwise. Not for "time shifting". I used to do that for shows I watch on cable, but since I stopped watching USA, I have more free time. I still have series recordings for "In Plain Sight", "Burn Notice", "Monk" and "Psych" on USA HD. I'll start watching those again once USA HD returns. ;)

And "The Starter Wife", seriously? :confused: C'mon. Save the time and disk space, that chick show blows!! The flat chested redhead isn't as funny as she was in "Will & Grace". I've checked that show out on Universal HD, not worthy of watching weekly.

"Legend of the Seeker", never even cared to find out what it was. I strongly hope you didn't record that on WBNX HD. It is not HD, at least here in Cleveland.

It's not TV, It's HBO. errr, umm, I mean Tivo. :p:D:D

Well, that's out of my system, back to normal conversation. For me, the DVR is for shows I wouldn't get to see otherwise. Not for "time shifting". I used to do that for shows I watch on cable, but since I stopped watching USA, I have more free time. I still have series recordings for "In Plain Sight", "Burn Notice", "Monk" and "Psych" on USA HD. I'll start watching those again once USA HD returns. ;)

And "The Starter Wife", seriously? :confused: C'mon. Save the time and disk space, that chick show blows!! The flat chested redhead isn't as funny as she was in "Will & Grace". I've checked that show out on Universal HD, not worthy of watching weekly.

"Legend of the Seeker", never even cared to find out what it was. I strongly hope you didn't record that on WBNX HD. It is not HD, at least here in Cleveland.

The very fact that you use your DVR in such limited capacity not only explains why you have such negative feelings, it also reinforces my point about lack of reliability of the SA 8300.

Now I got that out of my system. As far as televisions shows if I don't like it I will delete it. I'm just stating what I use my DVR for. And in regards to diskspace unlike you I'm not limited to just 20 hours of HD recording time, so I have plenty of room to do whatever I choose.:p:p:p

Quick stupid local question: Anyone have a QAM lineup available for Time warner NEO, especially the akron area? Watching the game last night with poor reception cutting in and out is enough to make me change over from ATSC, I might only get the same channels, but atleast I can count on them!

Quick stupid local question: Anyone have a QAM lineup available for Time warner NEO, especially the akron area? Watching the game last night with poor reception cutting in and out is enough to make me change over from ATSC, I might only get the same channels, but atleast I can count on them!

It's not a stupid question. I assume you want to change from OTA to cable?

If you do your television should be able to map out the local HD's for you, however TW is noted for moving their HD channels around on their QAM so there is no set list of channels. You would have to rescan from time to time.

Heres the lineup I have in Canton. (May Change at any moment and may not be the same as Akron)

3-1 WKYC
3-2 Weather Plus
5-1 WEWS
8-1 WJW
19-1 WOIO
19-2 Weather Now
43-1 WUAB
49-1 WEAO

78-1 WVIZ
78-2 Ohio Channel (WVIZ)
78-3 WBNX
78-4 WVIZ World
78-5 WVIZ Create

94-29 North Canton City Schools Channel 11
94-31 New Franklin/Manchester/Coventry Community Billboard (Akron Area)
94-32 Green Community Channel
94-33 Lake Local Schools

106-3 Discovery Channel
112-6 Starz! Comedy
112-7 MLB Network
112-9 Big Ten Network

122-315 On Demand Promos
123-14 WIVM-52 Canton
125-7 History Channel Spanish
125-14 Catholic Familyland

Heres the lineup I have in Canton. (May Change at any moment and may not be the same as Akron)

3-1 WKYC
3-2 Weather Plus
5-1 WEWS
8-1 WJW
19-1 WOIO
19-2 Weather Now
43-1 WUAB
49-1 WEAO

78-1 WVIZ
78-2 Ohio Channel (WVIZ)
78-3 WBNX
78-4 WVIZ World
78-5 WVIZ Create

94-29 North Canton City Schools Channel 11
94-31 New Franklin/Manchester/Coventry Community Billboard (Akron Area)
94-32 Green Community Channel
94-33 Lake Local Schools

106-3 Discovery Channel
112-6 Starz! Comedy
112-7 MLB Network
112-9 Big Ten Network

122-315 On Demand Promos
123-14 WIVM-52 Canton
125-7 History Channel Spanish
125-14 Catholic Familyland

Well, thats better than I expected. All those are in HD? And if I read online correctly, all you need is "Basic" cable to get these? After missing half the game last night to my poor signal I get cut outs on 3.1 all the time, I am willing to pay for basic cable to get those in well.

Thanks for taking the time to list those!

Well, thats better than I expected. All those are in HD? And if I read online correctly, all you need is "Basic" cable to get these? After missing half the game last night to my poor signal I get cut outs on 3.1 all the time, I am willing to pay for basic cable to get those in well.

Thanks for taking the time to list those!

No problem..i don't know that the cable channels will be arouind forever..I have a digital set,(Not HD) but I think the locals are in HD with their major programming..

A while back, I was getting 9 Steubenville, 13 Toledo and 17 Fox Youngstown on QAM but those are gone..

Well, thats better than I expected. All those are in HD? And if I read online correctly, all you need is "Basic" cable to get these? After missing half the game last night to my poor signal I get cut outs on 3.1 all the time, I am willing to pay for basic cable to get those in well.

Thanks for taking the time to list those!

That list will not be permanent. I'm surprised to see STARS, I doubt it will be there long.

As far as HD goes, no they are not all HD. TW doesn't offer most of those channels in HD. Best I can tell is locals only unless Big Ten is in there, and I kind of doubt that.

That list will not be permanent. I'm surprised to see STARS, I doubt it will be there long.

As far as HD goes, no they are not all HD. TW doesn't offer most of those channels in HD. Best I can tell is locals only unless Big Ten is in there, and I kind of doubt that.

Starz has been around the last 3-4 days at least..I was surprised to see MLB and Big Ten..but as you said..Don't expect them to be around forever..

The very fact that you use your DVR in such limited capacity not only explains why you have such negative feelings, it also reinforces my point about lack of reliability of the SA 8300.

No, the SA 8300 is reliable enough. That's not a problem. See, I could go out and spend hundreds on a Tivo(and all the other services that go along with it) and my recording schedule wouldn't change. Only difference is there might be more crap recording (that has to be deleted) because of that "search and record" feature Innundated mentioned yesterday.

Now I got that out of my system. As far as televisions shows if I don't like it I will delete it. I'm just stating what I use my DVR for. And in regards to diskspace unlike you I'm not limited to just 20 hours of HD recording time, so I have plenty of room to do whatever I choose.:p:p:p

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

No, the SA 8300 is reliable enough. That's not a problem. See, I could go out and spend hundreds on a Tivo(and all the other services that go along with it) and my recording schedule wouldn't change. Only difference is there might be more crap recording (that has to be deleted) because of that "search and record" feature Innundated mentioned yesterday.



:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p


nickdawg, you are hilarious!!!!:D

nickdawg, you are hilarious!!!!:D

No, I'm right! :p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

78-5 WVIZ Create



Are you getting any audio on WVIZ Create? This channel just showed up last week. Before that, it was another digital simulcast of Channel 8, and it had audio. Then WVIZ started and there is no audio. I'm trying to figure out if it is TWC's local problem or WVIZ's problem. Thanks.

Well, thats better than I expected. All those are in HD? And if I read online correctly, all you need is "Basic" cable to get these? After missing half the game last night to my poor signal I get cut outs on 3.1 all the time, I am willing to pay for basic cable to get those in well.

Thanks for taking the time to list those!
Unless I'm mistaken, WKYC will be moving to 17, which should be much easier to receive OTA than WKYC's awful location of 2 on the VHF band. If that is the case, you may just want to wait a tad bit longer for the move, if that happens on the Feb. 17 date. Worst case... wait to June, if I'm not mistaken... (that's an opening for someone else to correct me if I'm wrong ;)).

It is this transition that has kept me from getting a better antenna... the higher likelihood of being able to get WKYC when it moves to its permanent frequency.

Unless I'm mistaken, WKYC will be moving to 17, which should be much easier to receive OTA than WKYC's awful location of 2 on the VHF band. If that is the case, you may just want to wait a tad bit longer for the move, if that happens on the Feb. 17 date. Worst case... wait to June, if I'm not mistaken... (that's an opening for someone else to correct me if I'm wrong ;)).

It is this transition that has kept me from getting a better antenna... the higher likelihood of being able to get WKYC when it moves to its permanent frequency.

Thats interesting, I did not know that. So Just a couple weeks, and things may sort themselves out? I guess I could postpone the cable till then and try it. I have to call in the morning and cancel I scheduled for a friday hookup. Thanks for the info, the QAM sounded a bit dodgy, with channels moving around and changing all the time, ATSC is so close if I could only get 3 in better!

Thats interesting, I did not know that. So Just a couple weeks, and things may sort themselves out? I guess I could postpone the cable till then and try it. I have to call in the morning and cancel I scheduled for a friday hookup. Thanks for the info, the QAM sounded a bit dodgy, with channels moving around and changing all the time, ATSC is so close if I could only get 3 in better!

......but it may not happen till June 12th either. Also, couldn't the move to 17 be predicated upon ch 3 finishing and equipping it's new tower?
IOW: Couldn't they continue with their not-so-great freq as 3.1 after the analog shutoff and not move to 17 till much later in the year (or later)?

......but it may not happen till June 12th either. Also, couldn't the move to 17 be predicated upon ch 3 finishing and equipping it's new tower?
IOW: Couldn't they continue with their not-so-great freq as 3.1 after the analog shutoff and not move to 17 till much later in the year (or later)?Good question. I haven't got the slightest clue.

Thats interesting, I did not know that. So Just a couple weeks, and things may sort themselves out? I guess I could postpone the cable till then and try it. I have to call in the morning and cancel I scheduled for a friday hookup. Thanks for the info, the QAM sounded a bit dodgy, with channels moving around and changing all the time, ATSC is so close if I could only get 3 in better!

As of now, it's happening 2/17/09. That's 15 days.

Otherwise, I'd get an HDTV cable box. Far superior to QAM. There's a set, unchanging lineup-no tricks. Also, you'll all kinds of great features like an interactive program guide, all the local HD channels plus several cable channels. And once SDV starts, there will be even more HDTV channels. Totally worth it.

......but it may not happen till June 12th either. Also, couldn't the move to 17 be predicated upon ch 3 finishing and equipping it's new tower?

That's correct, although I don't think they'll wait until June 12th unless they have to in order to avoid interfering with someone else.

That's correct, although I don't think they'll wait until June 12th unless they have to in order to avoid interfering with someone else.
If that is the case, then, in my opinion, it would be worth waiting for the transition instead of going the cable route. Gone this far waiting... what is another half to five months. I just hope that Fox doesn't become hard to get with their moronic decision to go VHF on us.

Fox: Gee... everyone else will be UHF, so lets go VHF so it'll be harder for people to get us with an indoor antenna. :rolleyes:

Fox: Gee... everyone else will be UHF, so lets go VHF so it'll be harder for people to get us with an indoor antenna. :rolleyes:

I have been told previously in this forum that FOX 8 is planning on boosting their signal to make sure it's still accessible when they switch to VHS.

I just hope that Fox doesn't become hard to get with their moronic decision to go VHF on us.

Fox: Gee... everyone else will be UHF, so lets go VHF so it'll be harder for people to get us with an indoor antenna. :rolleyes:

It's not moronic if you are the one paying the electric bill. The higher the frequency the higher the power needed to cover the same area. The savings are significant. I talked to their engineer shortly after they came online with their digital signal and he knew way back then that they were going to go back to channel 8 after the transition. He was astounded as to how much extra power was required to broadcast on channel 31.

I have been told previously in this forum that FOX 8 is planning on boosting their signal to make sure it's still accessible when they switch to VHS.Holy gosh! VHS!!! :eek: Has anyone told nickdawg about them going entirely to analog videocassette?

I kid, I kid... :D

It's not moronic if you are the one paying the electric bill. The higher the frequency the higher the power needed to cover the same area. The savings are significant. I talked to their engineer shortly after they came online with their digital signal and he knew way back then that they were going to go back to channel 8 after the transition. He was astounded as to how much extra power was required to broadcast on channel 31.Well, I guess that makes me the moron then. *sigh*

Nice fact to know though, regarding the electricity cost and the frequency.

Hello:
My wife was watching a DVR on the TWC SA 8240HDC..A Blue screen comes up that says to the effect that "Explorer is now downloading an important update:Please do not touch anything."..Just wondering what it might be..The receiver is now rebooting..On front of the receiver there is the letter r and 3-number/letter combinations..as in r399a r399b, etc..

Hello:
My wife was watching a DVR on the TWC SA 8240HDC..A Blue screen comes up that says to the effect that "Explorer is now downloading an important update:Please do not touch anything."..Just wondering what it might be..The receiver is now rebooting..On front of the receiver there is the letter r and 3-number/letter combinations..as in r399a r399b, etc..

It just means exactly that....You got an update. Now you'll have to see if anything is different.

It may be a big thing or it may be something you won't even notice. That particular DVR is noted for having some shall we say, issues.

The update is done..No apparent changes that I see as yet..

I don't know why people say the 8300HDC has issues. Yeah, if you are coming from a Tivo environment then sure. TONS of issues, slow as ****, and more features missing than you can count. Personally I have never had any problems with it. Aside from the expected slowness which I can deal with, haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. Heck, even the conflict resolution works as I expect it to which, as I recall, was one of the past nags around here. I have a ton of shows recorded on thursday night and Burn Notice always seems to get the shaft on the 10PM recording but it'll just find the next airing of that specific episode and record the 1AM airing. Granted, there's no priority delegation to say which series recordings should definitely be recorded first in a conflict but that's a feature that is to be added in a future update once we get the revisions they are testing out in Arizona/San Jose.

But I digress. hookbill is correct. It's just what it says: An update. Though I'm surprised they are giving you a display that it is doing so. I have yet to see one here and usually it just does the updates and reboots without warning (albeit, most in the wee hours of the morning like 3AM).

I have been told previously in this forum that FOX 8 is planning on boosting their signal to make sure it's still accessible when they switch to VHS.

Holy gosh! VHS!!! :eek: Has anyone told nickdawg about them going entirely to analog videocassette?

I kid, I kid... :D


I wouldn't be surprised FOX wants to be an analog videocassette. FOX always wants to be "different". Doesn't bother me, I don't watch FOX that much anyway. :D:D

Well, I guess that makes me the moron then. *sigh*

Nice fact to know though, regarding the electricity cost and the frequency.

Nope. It still makes them the morons. Every other station in the northeast Hoio markets are going to UHF, except for WOIO. WKYC had to fight to get off VHF. WJW is stupid for going back to VHF 8. Maybe somebody should tell them about PSIP if they're desperate to not have to paint over all their lovely new "FOX 8" logos on their garish set. :p:p:p

WOIO is on 10, and they must be loving it. Today at OMW, I read again that WOIO "is broadcasting at the maximum power allowed by the FCC" on channel 10 because of the Canadian interference. So they're VHF and get to operate as a lower power channel. That must make Raycheap happy.

I don't know why people say the 8300HDC has issues. Yeah, if you are coming from a Tivo environment then sure. TONS of issues, slow as ****, and more features missing than you can count.

I went from a Passport 8300HD to the 8300HDC. Worst piece of **** I ever had the displeasure of using. I only had it about a month and a half before chaining it to my bumper and returning it to TWC, where I was able to get an older 830HD with Passport. Even the version of Navigator they gave us on the 8300HD last May is far superior to the HDC boxes.

You could be coming from a VCR tape environment and you'll think the 8300HDC has issues!! :p :D:D

Right now I have an 8300HD with MDN (Mystro Digital navigator for non OCAP boxes) and a 4250HDC with ODN (OCAP Digital navigator for OCAP boxes). The newer 4250 box is a piece of crap compared to the 8300. It's like a crude, archaic, ugly product that is still in a beta test.

I checked the 4250 box and it is still on. So I don't think there was any kind of "upgrade".

I don't know why people say the 8300HDC has issues. Yeah, if you are coming from a Tivo environment then sure. TONS of issues, slow as ****, and more features missing than you can count. Personally I have never had any problems with it. Aside from the expected slowness which I can deal with, haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. Heck, even the conflict resolution works as I expect it to which, as I recall, was one of the past nags around here. I have a ton of shows recorded on thursday night and Burn Notice always seems to get the shaft on the 10PM recording but it'll just find the next airing of that specific episode and record the 1AM airing. Granted, there's no priority delegation to say which series recordings should definitely be recorded first in a conflict but that's a feature that is to be added in a future update once we get the revisions they are testing out in Arizona/San Jose.



You know when nickdawg and I agree, it's got to be a problem.:D

I think the reason I notice the problems more then others is the amount of recording I do. I record on average anywhere from 3 to 8 programs a night using two DVR's now. Back then I recorded average 3 to 6. I would regularly have partial recordings at least twice a week and missed recordings if the DVR skipped a couple of weeks. And it wasn't just one DVR. I went through 3 of them.

If the SA 8300 did what it was suppose to do, I honestly would not have bought a TiVo. I could live with it.

And fwiw I will be upfront and tell you that the SA 8300 is actually faster then TiVo, at least as far as the guide goes. Everything else however is light years behind of course.

Right now I have an 8300HD with MDN (Mystro Digital navigator for non OCAP boxes) and a 4250HDC with ODN (OCAP Digital navigator for OCAP boxes). The newer 4250 box is a piece of crap compared to the 8300. It's like a crude, archaic, ugly product that is still in a beta test.



nickdawg, what kind of software do you have on that 4250 box? Mine has SARA and I think it's not bad at all.

WJW is stupid for going back to VHF 8.

Somebody tell me why it will be a bad thing for WJW to go back to channel 8. Let's just take a look at the numbers... WJW has an application to use 30 kW of power. WOIO-DT is only using 3.5 kW at this time. Maybe that's why people have such difficulty receiving WOIO-DT. Their power is limited for certain reasons. It looks like WJW going back to channel 8 will be a good thing. Also, the higher VHF channels are not susceptible to interference as much as the lower ones.

Somebody tell me why it will be a bad thing for WJW to go back to channel 8. Let's just take a look at the numbers... WJW has an application to use 30 kW of power. WOIO-DT is only using 3.5 kW at this time. Maybe that's why people have such difficulty receiving WOIO-DT. Their power is limited for certain reasons. It looks like WJW going back to channel 8 will be a good thing. Also, the higher VHF channels are not susceptible to interference as much as the lower ones.

Ummmm.....isn't VHF the lower ones????? 2-13 VHF After that UHF.

If that is the case, then, in my opinion, it would be worth waiting for the transition instead of going the cable route. Gone this far waiting... what is another half to five months. I just hope that Fox doesn't become hard to get with their moronic decision to go VHF on us.

Fox: Gee... everyone else will be UHF, so lets go VHF so it'll be harder for people to get us with an indoor antenna. :rolleyes:Unlike WOIO, WJW FOX 8 will have a superior VHF Hi-band signal. There is no Canadian ch 8 just across the lake to muck-up the signal. WJW has been on 8 in analog since 1955 with no interference problems. That's because no nearby stations are on ch 8. There is no comparison between the two stations situations. Ch 10, which is what WOIO is stubbornly holdig onto, belongs in Columbus. To this day I cannot understand how they were able to muscle it away from WBNS. The spacing between London Ontario and Columbus was pefect. Now we have WOIO short-spaced. They may have been able to bump WBNS but I doubt the Canadians are gonna bow to Raycom.

BTW don't "blame FOX". This station is owned by Local TV LLC, not FOX/New World Media. If it was such a bad decision the Local TV LLC could have petitioned the FCC to stay on rf 31.

Ummmm.....isn't VHF the lower ones????? 2-13 VHF After that UHF.

Actually there are 2 different VHF bands. Low band is 2-6, then the FM radio band happens, as well as some non-broadcast freqencies (avation band) that are also used on cable (cable channels 14-22), then finally the High band 7-13. The only reason more broadcasters did not go digital on high band is becuse there are only 7 channels available and (except for poor WBNS) the stations that had those frequencies originally get the option to go back to their legacy frequency.

You watch, WJW-DT on rf ch 8 will have the best coverage of any Cleveland market station! Right now their analog is watchable in parts of Western PA!

nickdawg, what kind of software do you have on that 4250 box? Mine has SARA and I think it's not bad at all.

OCAP Digital Navigator. It's the same thing as the DVR boxes, just without the DVR functions.

SEE, that's why I always say I wish TWC would go with SARA for the entire area, rather than Navigator. Compare your worst day with SARA to my best day with Navigator. I guarantee even SARA's worst problem is better than a relatively stable Navigator.

Surprisingly, even the awful 4250 box handles SDV well. At least that works. I can't wait to see how StartOver will work.

No, I can't wait until your 4250 gets OCAP digital navigator. Have fun!! :evilsmiley: :evilmiley:

BTW don't "blame FOX". This station is owned by Local TV LLC, not FOX/New World Media. If it was such a bad decision the Local TV LLC could have petitioned the FCC to stay on rf 31.

Actually the decision to move to channel 8 was one that FOX made, not the new owners.

Actually the decision to move to channel 8 was one that FOX made, not the new owners.

But they could have petitioned to stay on UHF, as they did in Salt Lake City.

- Trip

Well gee, I thought that all the analog channels had to be freed up so now there will be exceptions? Sounds like the debate between tubes, vinyl, solid state, and CD's.
JJK

I have a gut feeling that the 30KW DT 8 facility will do fine for WJW, for all of the reasons stated by others here...minimal to no interference problems, and a much higher power level than WOIO's digital facility even after that station maximizes.

And still no HD Seinfeld on WJW...

I get the feeling that place has FAIL written all over it! :D

Well gee, I thought that all the analog channels had to be freed up so now there will be exceptions? Sounds like the debate between tubes, vinyl, solid state, and CD's.
JJK

Only analog broadcasts are being done away with, which has no direct relation to the channel/frequency it's transmitted on. Even if a station chooses to stay on the same frequency when switching to digital (not realistic), their signal would take up a notably smaller chunk of the RF spectrum compared to the analog requirements, freeing up a chunk of RF that can be assigned to other purposes.

SEE, that's why I always say I wish TWC would go with SARA for the entire area, rather than Navigator. Compare your worst day with SARA to my best day with Navigator. I guarantee even SARA's worst problem is better than a relatively stable Navigator.

I think that's the whole thing in a nutshell. SARA works well as a receiver, it just makes crummy software for a DVR.

Surprisingly, even the awful 4250 box handles SDV well. At least that works. I can't wait to see how StartOver will work.

How can you say that when all you are seeing is a bunch of numbers on a diagnostic screen? Until you see it actually in use, you really don't have any idea.

If it's the 800 channels that you are looking at, that doesn't mean diddly.

No, I can't wait until your 4250 gets OCAP digital navigator. Have fun!! :evilsmiley: :evilmiley:

Since that box is attached to a television my WIFE uses I could give a flying you know what. Anyway, it still appears that changing SARA to Navigator isn't all that easy so I still won't see that happen until they activate SDV around September or November. It sure as heck isn't going to happen this month. Or next.:p:p:p

I found an interesting article on why some stations would be forced to delay their digital switch and others would be able to move on. You can read it here (http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/02/03/analysis:-will-house-pass-dtv-extension%3F).

The article points out that interference with other existing channels would delay some stations from converting if the delay goes through, while others like WJW would not be affected if they move to their current spot on channel 8.

I was wondering if anyone knows when TWC will be rolling out some decent HD content here in the NEO area? It's seems like we've all been waiting forever to be treated like the rest of the civilized world. I had initally been told by somone I know in facilities management at TWC that it would be in February or March but the last time I emailed him he was mum on the subject. I'd switch to U-verse but I'm 160' too far and I don't know anyone who has DirecTV to judge if I want to commit to a 2 year contract for a technology I'm not familiar with. So I continue to wait like the rest of TWC customers in the Cleveland, Akron area.

I was wondering if anyone knows when TWC will be rolling out some decent HD content here in the NEO area? It's seems like we've all been waiting forever to be treated like the rest of the civilized world. I had initally been told by somone I know in facilities management at TWC that it would be in February or March but the last time I emailed him he was mum on the subject. I'd switch to U-verse but I'm 160' too far and I don't know anyone who has DirecTV to judge if I want to commit to a 2 year contract for a technology I'm not familiar with. So I continue to wait like the rest of TWC customers in the Cleveland, Akron area.

If you read even a few pages back you will see this is frequently discussed here.

The problem with TWC delivering the amount of HD that D* offers is they have not implemented SDV (Switched Digital Video), and until they get everybody on board on the same system (Navigator) they cannot implement it.

Now that's not to say they couldn't throw us a bone. We know they still have bandwith available, they are choosing not to give us even a couple of HD channels.

Run a google on TWC and Columbus and you will see what's to come. But it's not going to happen until exAdelphia an exComcast people can be put on board with the original TWC system, and that's a big problem.

We've heard March, but I think personally that is highly doubtful. I would guess in the Fall sometime. I too have a contact at TW in headend and she won't say much other then "they are working on it."

Well gee, I thought that all the analog channels had to be freed up so now there will be exceptions? Sounds like the debate between tubes, vinyl, solid state, and CD's.
JJK
The channels that have to be "freed up" are 52-69 since they have been allocated/auctioned off for other services including Public Safety.

I saw where this had been discussed but I was hoping someone might actually know something concrete. I spoke to a technician in Canton this morning and he rattled off a list of HD channels that are to be added by April 1st from a memo he had but the memo also said that date may be postponed. I guess the April 1st date should have been my first clue....

I saw where this had been discussed but I was hoping someone might actually know something concrete. I spoke to a technician in Canton this morning and he rattled off a list of HD channels that are to be added by April 1st from a memo he had but the memo also said that date may be postponed. I guess the April 1st date should have been my first clue....

ROFLOL:):)

Welcome to the forum. It's my experience that whatever date they tell you, it's usually 6 months later.

We had one guy back in the old Adelphia days who use to tip us off about a month ahead of time, but he hasn't been around in a long, long time.

If you call CSR they will probably say April. Then in April they will say May, etc. But it is pretty impressive that the tech read off a memo.

The article points out that interference with other existing channels would delay some stations from converting if the delay goes through, while others like WJW would not be affected if they move to their current spot on channel 8.

And according to Trip's list at RabbitEars, WJW now intends to do just that on February 17th.

http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php


Ohio

Cleveland
WJW- DT FOX 08 31 08 STA 02/17/09 Local TV

Thanks for the greeting. I spent a long time lurking to gain info on my HDTV and A/V receiever purchases and have found this site invaluable. Anyway, when he was reading off the HD channels I was getting pretty excited as I've been waiting along with everyone else for quite some time for TWC to show the same love they show other parts of Ohio and the U.S. I actually told him to stop reading as I couldn't take it! Every channel I was waiting for was on the list and April,isn't that far away. Of course now the prospect of having to wait until fall is extremely depressing....

The reason TV stations want to be on VHF is the trasmitters are more efficient so it saves them money on electricity.

The reason TV stations want to be on VHF is the trasmitters are more efficient so it saves them money on electricity.

And if you have the opportunity to visit even one analog TV facility, you'll know why.

The UHF sites have massive banks of transmitter cabinets, even digitally. The VHF sites have a transmitter cabinet about the size of a large refrigerator, and there's even less expense involved because the VHF transmitter rooms don't need the massive cooling that the UHF rooms do.

Again, I suspect WJW will end up fine on 8, particularly when it goes 30KW maximized.

ROFLOL:):)

Welcome to the forum. It's my experience that whatever date they tell you, it's usually 6 months later.

We had one guy back in the old Adelphia days who use to tip us off about a month ahead of time, but he hasn't been around in a long, long time.

If you call CSR they will probably say April. Then in April they will say May, etc. But it is pretty impressive that the tech read off a memo.

Bull ----!!! I'm pulling the bullsh!t card. (note to self, make a cool new graphic!). Submitted for evidence, TWC NE Ohio stated last year that on or around March 4, 2008 a change would occur in the lineups in an attempt to "standardize" them. Also, at the time HGTV, FOOD, A&E, History, STO HD, WBNX HD would be added to the lineup. Well, that change came here on March 18, 2008. I call that "around March 4". It was a few weeks late, NOT 6 months. You're always so negative.

New Member Guy, you gotta take what hookbill says with a grain of salt, he's very negative with TWC. I choose to see the glass half full. He's just a Tivo salesman :p!!!

And April 1st, at least there's a documented date. That's more info than I had yesterday. It also sounds like a logical date. From the national thread, I've seen that these changes/additions often happen around the first of the month.

New HD channels are coming in a month and a half, or New HD channels are coming in eight months. Think what you want, the choice is yours! :D;)

Bull ----!!! I'm pulling the bullsh!t card. (note to self, make a cool new graphic!). Submitted for evidence, TWC NE Ohio stated last year that on or around March 4, 2008 a change would occur in the lineups in an attempt to "standardize" them. Also, at the time HGTV, FOOD, A&E, History, STO HD, WBNX HD would be added to the lineup. Well, that change came here on March 18, 2008. I call that "around March 4". It was a few weeks late, NOT 6 months. You're always so negative.

New Member Guy, you gotta take what hookbill says with a grain of salt, he's very negative with TWC. I choose to see the glass half full. He's just a Tivo salesman :p!!!

And April 1st, at least there's a documented date. That's more info than I had yesterday. It also sounds like a logical date. From the national thread, I've seen that these changes/additions often happen around the first of the month.

New HD channels are coming in a month and a half, or New HD channels are coming in eight months. Think what you want, the choice is yours! :D;)

If anybody has to be taken with a grain of salt it's you. And you need a reality check.

The only time I ever saw TW do anything even close to schedule was the line up change, and even then we didn't get it when they said we would.

And I'm not just negative towards TW, it's all cable companies! They all suck.

I'll bet that list the tech read off was Columbus. :)

Gee, I didn't mean to start anything! The tech I spoke with was in Canton, part of the NEO area and some of the channels he mentioned are already provided by TWC in Columbus. I have to say though that TWC have earned their reputation for both poor service and customer support. When I first got their HD service I went through 3 DVRs in the first month until I got one that actually worked correctly and before that my Road Runner service would go from 5MB/sec in the daytime to .8MB/sec in the evening because they didn't have the infrastructure to support the users. It's the 21st century and they still have one foot back in the 90s. Even as the new guy I'll side with hookbill on this one and say I take the April 1st date with a huge grain of salt (but I hope I'm wrong!)

Gee, I didn't mean to start anything! The tech I spoke with was in Canton, part of the NEO area and some of the channels he mentioned are already provided by TWC in Columbus. I have to say though that TWC have earned their reputation for both poor service and customer support. When I first got their HD service I went through 3 DVRs in the first month until I got one that actually worked correctly and before that my Road Runner service would go from 5MB/sec in the daytime to .8MB/sec in the evening because they didn't have the infrastructure to support the users. It's the 21st century and they still have one foot back in the 90s. Even as the new guy I'll side with hookbill on this one and say I take the April 1st date with a huge grain of salt (but I hope I'm wrong!)

You didn't start anything. nickdawg and I go around all the time.

It's laughable that he calls me the negative one. If anything he's more negative then anyone else here, but he's like a kid who won't stop believing in Santa Clause.

Anyway nickdawg, I was watching the 1/14 episode of Leverage on TNT HD last night. About 1/2 way through it went to commercial and came back in letterbox! Dolby 5.1 still running, I set my aspect at zoom 2 and it made it watchable but come on.

Needless to say it ruined the episode, I went into a nickdawg like tirade about ruining HD and spoiled it for my wife.

I checked the next episode, it's all in HD.

And if you have the opportunity to visit even one analog TV facility, you'll know why.

The UHF sites have massive banks of transmitter cabinets, even digitally. The VHF sites have a transmitter cabinet about the size of a large refrigerator, and there's even less expense involved because the VHF transmitter rooms don't need the massive cooling that the UHF rooms do.

Again, I suspect WJW will end up fine on 8, particularly when it goes 30KW maximized.With all this said, why is almost everyone else in the UHF band. I'm assuming stations are aware of the electricity benefit of the VHF band. The only benefit UHF seems to have, from my layman research is it is easier to receive, in general.

With all this said, why is almost everyone else in the UHF band. I'm assuming stations are aware of the electricity benefit of the VHF band. The only benefit UHF seems to have, from my layman research is it is easier to receive, in general.

Because there's not room for everyone in the VHF band.

2-6 are nearly impossible to receive, as I'm sure everyone here will agree with, so nobody wants to be there except the exceptionally dumb.

So that leaves 7-13:

7 WJBK/WTRF
8 WJW
9 WTOV/CBET
10 WOIO/CFPL
11 WPCW/WTOL
12 WMFD/WICU
13 WQED/WTVG

In fact, channel 13 is the "fullest" channel in the US after the transition.

- Trip

Because there's not room for everyone in the VHF band.

2-6 are nearly impossible to receive, as I'm sure everyone here will agree with, so nobody wants to be there except the exceptionally dumb.

So that leaves 7-13:

7 WJBK/WTRF
8 WJW
9 WTOV/CBET
10 WOIO/CFPL
11 WPCW/WTOL
12 WMFD/WICU
13 WQED/WTVG

In fact, channel 13 is the "fullest" channel in the US after the transition.

- TripThanks for the info. Answers that.

Hmm... then maybe they should put the UHF frequencies into the VHF spectrum to allow greater capacity then. :p



Yes, I am joking.

If anybody has to be taken with a grain of salt it's you. And you need a reality check.

The only time I ever saw TW do anything even close to schedule was the line up change, and even then we didn't get it when they said we would.

And I'm not just negative towards TW, it's all cable companies! They all suck.

I'll bet that list the tech read off was Columbus. :)

No, at that time when I was all "Yippee, I can't wait for March 4" you were like "It's not coming on march 4, it's just more empty talk from the evil cable company. They all suck you know!!". And it came two weeks late. So what. I'm not gonna be pissed if USA and F/X show up on April 15 or 22 instead of the 1st.

You didn't start anything. nickdawg and I go around all the time.

It's laughable that he calls me the negative one. If anything he's more negative then anyone else here, but he's like a kid who won't stop believing in Santa Clause.

Anyway nickdawg, I was watching the 1/14 episode of Leverage on TNT HD last night. About 1/2 way through it went to commercial and came back in letterbox! Dolby 5.1 still running, I set my aspect at zoom 2 and it made it watchable but come on.

Needless to say it ruined the episode, I went into a nickdawg like tirade about ruining HD and spoiled it for my wife.

I checked the next episode, it's all in HD.

Wait. :confused::confused::confused: Stretched letterbox or bars on all four sides letterbox? That would be odd that TNT screwed up like that.

Wait. :confused::confused::confused: Stretched letterbox or bars on all four sides letterbox? That would be odd that TNT screwed up like that.

Stretched letterbox (bars on top). It amazed me. How in the heck can they call that HD?

As I was displaying my outrage my wife told me I just didn't notice it at the start. But I'm sure I would have noticed.

If I get a chance I'll pull it out of the trash and check out the beginning. I can't believe it would go 1/2 a show without me noticing.

So that leaves 7-13:

7 WJBK/WTRF
8 WJW


Which brings me the opportunity to ask you, Trip...with WJW filing to transition early, is 8 basically wide open for them in the post-transition world? I don't recall anyone even remotely near this region moving to digital 8...

Is WWCP staying on 8? That's far enough away, I presume.

With all this said, why is almost everyone else in the UHF band. I'm assuming stations are aware of the electricity benefit of the VHF band. The only benefit UHF seems to have, from my layman research is it is easier to receive, in general.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion locally until after WJW lights up 30KW on DT 8...WOIO's current DT 10 signal isn't really a fair example.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion locally until after WJW lights up 30KW on DT 8...WOIO's current DT 10 signal isn't really a fair example.Well, UHF is technically easier to receive on a small antenna, which was my point. If WJW has a strong signal, then it may just be fine in the end. I can receive WOIO just fine, though it keeps me from getting WKYC, so as long as WJW is strong enough, I guess it'll be fine.

Sadly my experience and knowledge is based on my experience, which unfortunately lacking. That is why I ask the questions.

Well, UHF is technically easier to receive on a small antenna, which was my point. If WJW has a strong signal, then it may just be fine in the end. I can receive WOIO just fine, though it keeps me from getting WKYC, so as long as WJW is strong enough, I guess it'll be fine.

Sadly my experience and knowledge is based on my experience, which unfortunately lacking. That is why I ask the questions.

No, you have some very valid points. The biggest problem with VHF is mostly at the low end, where WKYC is at both analog 3 and DT 2...you do need a large antenna for good reception, much larger than a typical indoor antenna.

It's not as bad up at high-VHF channels like 8 and 10. Many UHF antennas can pick up high-VHF with little difficulty.

As predicted:

WASHINGTON, Feb 4 (Reuters) - A bill to delay the nationwide switch to digital television signals by about four months passed in the U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday.

The U.S. Senate passed the bill seeking a delay late last month, and President Barack Obama said he intends to sign it.

Efforts to delay the transition date to June 12 from Feb 17 have been fueled by concern that 20 million mostly poor, elderly and rural households are not ready for the congressionally mandated switch. (Reporting by Kim Dixon; editing by Leslie Gevirtz)
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUSWBT01057520090204

As predicted:

WASHINGTON, Feb 4 (Reuters) - A bill to delay the nationwide switch to digital television signals by about four months passed in the U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday...........

That was a real nail biter. Who knew?? :rolleyes:

Interesting caller on the radio today saying she got her mother a DTV Coupon box, when they did the *test* shutoff she had NO to tv signal. Then got her a new antenna per BB salesman, second *test* shutoff still no tv signal.

Here is my question regarding the DTV Coupon boxes (I don't have one and don't need one): If these DTV converters are made to receive digital then convert to analog then why does this woman need a *test* shutoff to test if it works as expected?? Or are these DTV converters dual tuner boxes that receive both analog and digital simultaneously and was (apparently) having no issue receiving the analog signal? :confused:

That was a real nail biter. Who knew?? :rolleyes:

Interesting caller on the radio today saying she got her mother a DTV Coupon box, when they did the *test* shutoff she had NO to tv signal. Then got her a new antenna per BB salesman, second *test* shutoff still no tv signal.

Here is my question regarding the DTV Coupon boxes (I don't have one and don't need one): If these DTV converters are made to receive digital then convert to analog then why does this woman need a *test* shutoff to test if it works as expected?? Or are these DTV converters dual tuner boxes that receive both analog and digital simultaneously and was (apparently) having no issue receiving the analog signal? :confused:

They only convert digital to analog. She either has a bad box, a bad location, or she has stupid people around her who can't figure out how to hook it up.

As much as we all gripe about cable tv co's (and there is plenty to gripe about) I must say that I wish the local ch's would take a lesson from WOW cable on the PROPER way to do weather warnings!

A simple and NOT constant crawl at the top of the screen saying:
"Severe weather warning, turn to ch 15 for more details"
THAT'S IT! No friggin maps, radar images, continuous crawls, no altering the original picture size or format, etc...

Then, for shits & giggles, I turn to ch 15 to see a simple message:
"The Natl Weather Service has issued a winter storm advisory for Cuyahoga and Lorain Counties effective until ........ blah-blah-blah....."

THIS is how you do it! ;) Use those crappy sub-channels for THIS purpose of weather advisories and leave your main broadcasts ALONE with a simple, non-obtrusive referral to your sub-channel for further details (assuming you even care to change the channel, which I don't). :cool:

They only convert digital to analog. She either has a bad box, a bad location, or she has stupid people around her who can't figure out how to hook it up.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. Why put an analog tuner into a new box when analog is going to be gone in six months..........9 months......3 years.........whenever (which is the entire reason for needing the box in the first place). :D

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. Why put an analog tuner into a new box when analog is going to be gone in six months..........9 months......3 years.........whenever (which is the entire reason for needing the box in the first place). :D

No you got it wrong. It converts the digital signal to analog, and it does a darn good job of it. Reception can be tricky, but if you get a decent signal your picture improves 100%.:)

As much as we all gripe about cable tv co's (and there is plenty to gripe about) I must say that I wish the local ch's would take a lesson from WOW cable on the PROPER way to do weather warnings!

A simple and NOT constant crawl at the top of the screen saying:
"Severe weather warning, turn to ch 15 for more details"
THAT'S IT! No friggin maps, radar images, continuous crawls, no altering the original picture size or format, etc...

Then, for shits & giggles, I turn to ch 15 to see a simple message:
"The Natl Weather Service has issued a winter storm advisory for Cuyahoga and Lorain Counties effective until ........ blah-blah-blah....."

THIS is how you do it! ;) Use those crappy sub-channels for THIS purpose of weather advisories and leave your main broadcasts ALONE with a simple, non-obtrusive referral to your sub-channel for further details (assuming you even care to change the channel, which I don't). :cool:

I don't understand what you're saying. The crawl is generated from the station - cable just relays the signal to you - so how can that be?

If what you say is true then that's a WOW thing, TW doesn't do that.

Is WWCP staying on 8? That's far enough away, I presume.

Yes and yes. I can't think of much else on 8 to interfere with WJW outside of WLIO-DT in Lima.

Well, UHF is technically easier to receive on a small antenna, which was my point. If WJW has a strong signal, then it may just be fine in the end. I can receive WOIO just fine, though it keeps me from getting WKYC, so as long as WJW is strong enough, I guess it'll be fine.

Sadly my experience and knowledge is based on my experience, which unfortunately lacking. That is why I ask the questions.

No, you have some very valid points. The biggest problem with VHF is mostly at the low end, where WKYC is at both analog 3 and DT 2...you do need a large antenna for good reception, much larger than a typical indoor antenna.

It's not as bad up at high-VHF channels like 8 and 10. Many UHF antennas can pick up high-VHF with little difficulty.

"Little difficulty" is a relative term. At distances, UHFs are easier to get with indoor antennas, though closer in the difference is probably hard to catch as long as a station has enough power and is engineered well. I'm fighting with an upper VHF station at 0.1 kW (much weaker than WOIO-DT for you guys!) and I can't get any indoor antenna to receive anything out of it.

- Trip

Chees and Applause to WJW for sticking with the date. Here's hoping others will follow.

Chees and Applause to WJW for sticking with the date. Here's hoping others will follow.




I wish everyone would follow them.:)

Interesting caller on the radio today saying she got her mother a DTV Coupon box, when they did the *test* shutoff she had NO to tv signal. Then got her a new antenna per BB salesman, second *test* shutoff still no tv signal.


Two things: I wonder if the radio caller's mother did scan for channels before the test started.

And I wonder where that woman is.

OK, maybe, just maybe this has something to do with SDV testing. I don't know.

Around January 15 I recorded an episode of "Gangland" on History HD. This is a copy protected channel that only allows me to copy once so I cannot transfer to my computer or my other DVR. Yet I had full capability for unlimited transfer on this one episode only.

I don't understand how this could have happened. The copy once is given to the channel, not to an individual show. I think.

I posted this in the TiVo thread as well. Maybe they were testing something and that caused the copy protection to miss?

Any of you braniacs got an idea?

Two things: I wonder if the radio caller's mother did scan for channels before the test started.

And I wonder where that woman is.

You should have seen the freak show on WOIO Action News last week. People complaining about DTV. The dumb woman with the aluminum foil on the TV top rabbit ears. Wow, I wonder why DTV signals aren't strong enough with a rigged piece of crap? GET A REAL ANTENNA!!! And then look at the Austin Powers style throwback guy. I swear that piece could have been filmed in the 1980. I would think that, if it wasn't for the modern converter box. :D:D:D

http://www.woio.com/global/story.asp?s=9742313

You should have seen the freak show on WOIO Action News last week. People complaining about DTV. The dumb woman with the aluminum foil on the TV top rabbit ears. Wow, I wonder why DTV signals aren't strong enough with a rigged piece of crap? GET A REAL ANTENNA!!!

Gotta love the broken-up pictures of CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric.

Her show airs on...WOIO, which has one of the worst digital signals in the market.

For that piece to be anywhere near accurate, they'd have to come on and say "the reason that picture is breaking up is because OUR OWN SIGNAL BITES!"

:D

Gotta love the broken-up pictures of CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric.

Her show airs on...WOIO, which has one of the worst digital signals in the market.

For that piece to be anywhere near accurate, they'd have to come on and say "the reason that picture is breaking up is because OUR OWN SIGNAL BITES!"

:D

Yeah, I thought that. If people here who have quality antenna equipment and read the sites about positioning can't get a decent WOIO, how are rabbit ears with aluminum foil supposed to get that weak signal?

What would be funnier is if one of those people could get WKBN-DT. And they flip over to WKBN. Look, a newscast that's not like a comedy sketch! :D:D:D

Advertise live on WOIO: Watch WKBN!! :D:D:D

TWC's DVR did something hook bill would brag that Tivo can do. It changed a series recording when a channel changed. Right now there are no more SDV test channels in the 800s. All the channels that were on that list to go SDV, are. With the exception of a few foreign language services in the 850s.

One of the channels I have a series recording on is G4. I like the series "Human Wrecking Balls" so I recorded the entire series, to watch at my convenience. What is now on channel 329 is G4 SDV that used to be in the 800s. And when the channel changed, so did the recording. I was surprised, because first I saw an older unwatched episode that says G4 - 65535. 65535 is the default number that appears when a channel is "removed". But even though the old, non SDV G4 is gone, the recording picked up again where it left off, using the new SDV version.

SEE, the SDV transition is closer and closer. I have a feeling those channels listed for Canton on April 1, will be here sometime around April 1. If they can put the crap we already have through in SDV, what's stopping them from putting new crap through in SDV??

TWC's DVR did something hookbill would brag that Tivo can do. It changed a series recording when a channel changed.

Wow, that's just so, high tech!:rolleyes:

A series 1 TiVo could do that.:p

No you got it wrong. It converts the digital signal to analog, and it does a darn good job of it. Reception can be tricky, but if you get a decent signal your picture improves 100%.:)

Ummm.....how did I get it wrong? I said "why put an analog tuner in the DTV converter box".

I don't understand what you're saying. The crawl is generated from the station - cable just relays the signal to you - so how can that be?

If what you say is true then that's a WOW thing, TW doesn't do that.

It was a cable station, not a local station over cable. So the crawl had to come from the cable co.
It may be patched in from the Natl. Weather Service, I dunno.

There is one "catch" to this that may not go over well in your house hook: ch 15 is a shopping channel, the very simplistic text regarding the weather alert was over a blank gray background screen. But you could still hear the audio of the woman selling jewelry. :)

Two things: I wonder if the radio caller's mother did scan for channels before the test started.

And I wonder where that woman is.

Yeah, or they may have needed to switch to that input on the tv as well, who knows. She never said where she was calling from.

It was a cable station, not a local station over cable. So the crawl had to come from the cable co.

So how is that good? You got enough of that garbage from regular stations?

TW very rarely does that. Only in extreme instances have I seen a crawl like that. And I've even seen it once when I was watching a recording.

Ummm.....how did I get it wrong? I said "why put an analog tuner in the DTV converter box".

What we have here is a failure of communication.;)

I read you saying "Why put an analog tuner in a Digital Conversion Box?" If that's what you are asking, then the answer is obvious: to convert the digital signal so the analog television can receive it.

If that's not what you are saying, and I repeated it almost verbatim from your post then what are you saying?

Many people still have analog television. I have one. Heck, those things were built to last! And those are the folks who need the box.

Which they should have had right now unless they already got such bad reception they can't get a channel now.:D Heck, the message is scrawled across the screen. It's crazy.

So how is that good? You got enough of that garbage from regular stations?

TW very rarely does that. Only in extreme instances have I seen a crawl like that. And I've even seen it once when I was watching a recording.

You are missing the point. :p

It's better than filling the half the screen with crawls, radar maps, weather maps, maps of affected counties, school closings, etc... like the locals do. Instead it just refers you to another ch should you care enuff to bother reading the full weather alert. ;)

You are missing the point. :p

It's better than filling the half the screen with crawls, radar maps, weather maps, maps of affected counties, school closings, etc... like the locals do. Instead it just refers you to another ch should you care enuff to bother reading the full weather alert. ;)

Toby10 you and I are having some big time communications issues.

My point is that they shouldn't have a crawl at all on the cable channels. None. Nadda. Leave that for the networks.

What we have here is a failure of communication.;)

I read you saying "Why put an analog tuner in a Digital Conversion Box?" If that's what you are asking, then the answer is obvious: to convert the digital signal so the analog television can receive it.

If that's not what you are saying, and I repeated it almost verbatim from your post then what are you saying?

Many people still have analog television. I have one. Heck, those things were built to last! And those are the folks who need the box.

Which they should have had right now unless they already got such bad reception they can't get a channel now.:D Heck, the message is scrawled across the screen. It's crazy.

Yes, we are failing to communicate. :p

My original question was "do they have analog tuners in these DTV converter boxes" to receive analog OTA, you said no (which is what I had suspected myself).

So my response to your answer was "why put an analog tuner in a DTV box". What was implied in my answer was: yes, I agree, why do it

I don't think you need a analog tuner to convert to analog. :confused:

what channels are you talking about for April 1st...

Yes, we are failing to communicate. :p

My original question was "do they have analog tuners in these DTV converter boxes" to receive analog OTA, you said no (which is what I had suspected myself).

So my response to your answer was "why put an analog tuner in a DTV box". What was implied in my answer was: yes, I agree, why do it

I don't think you need a analog tuner to convert to analog. :confused:

No, of course not. No wonder we were so confused.;)

Toby10 you and I are having some big time communications issues.

My point is that they shouldn't have a crawl at all on the cable channels. None. Nadda. Leave that for the networks.

You asked what was good about it. It would be "good" if the locals copied the idea of a simplified warning, refering to another ch for details. ;)

This was the entire point of the original post. :)

You asked what was good about it. It would be "good" if the locals copied the idea of a simplified warning, refering to another ch for details. ;)

Well, I'm glad we cleared up all this confusion. And quit sticking your tongue out at me or I'll send nickdawg over to bite it off!!!:D:D:D

As of 7:40, WJW is down OTA and on cable. Anybody else see this?

My original question was "do they have analog tuners in these DTV converter boxes" to receive analog OTA, you said no (which is what I had suspected myself).

Actually, there are boxes out there that do this. I believe the feature is aptly called 'Analog passthrough' or something to that effect. Search wikipedia for the article that lists the box and compares by features. Should have it listed.

But they are out there. I don't know what actual reason was cooked up by the govt/box mfr's to add the feature in this first place though. I do know that having this in there pre-transition is only adding to the confusion for the tech-illiterate crowd (which is like ALL of the people this retarded CECB program is focused on).

Well, I'm glad we cleared up all this confusion. And quit sticking your tongue out at me or I'll send nickdawg over to bite it off!!!:D:D:D

:D:p:D

BTW: you guys sure made a mess of things while I was gone! Who ordered all this snow?? Good lord!

Yeah ch 8 is down. OTA is a blank screen, WOW cable is a frozen screen.

Here's the link btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

And I stand corrected. Looks like the prime focus of the analog passthrough feature is for the low power stations and translators that will continue to run analog broadcasts after this first transition. It also helps with the small subset of tv's that have FM radio tuning capability.

The 'analog passthrough' feature actually passes the analog RF signal directly through to the tv so there is not actual analog tuner in the box. So essentially if you have one hooked up to your set and you do a scan on the tv, you get the channel 3 or 4 from the box and all the rest of the OTA analog channels. Rather than the box tuning to the analog channels itself. My only curiosity is if that analog signal is going straight through to the tv untouched or if it's going through any circuitry to help retain the signal strength, quality, etc..

The reason TV stations want to be on VHF is the trasmitters are more efficient so it saves them money on electricity.
And this is because signal propagation is much more efficient on the High-VHF channels. There is less loss and the signals tend to bend more with the curvature of the earth and around obstructions. [Ever notice how sunsets are typically red? Red is the lowest frequency (highest wavelength) light color and survives the earth's curvature longer than the higher frequency (lower wavelength) colors like green and blue.]

Here's the link btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

And I stand corrected. Looks like the prime focus of the analog passthrough feature is for the low power stations and translators that will continue to run analog broadcasts after this first transition. It also helps with the small subset of tv's that have FM radio tuning capability.

The 'analog passthrough' feature actually passes the analog RF signal directly through to the tv so there is not actual analog tuner in the box. So essentially if you have one hooked up to your set and you do a scan on the tv, you get the channel 3 or 4 from the box and all the rest of the OTA analog channels. Rather than the box tuning to the analog channels itself. My only curiosity is if that analog signal is going straight through to the tv untouched or if it's going through any circuitry to help retain the signal strength, quality, etc..

Yes, passthrough I can understand to simplify setup. My Digital HD OTA/QAM box does this and only "tunes in" digital signals.

K2rj:
That is not true. Higher frequencies go straight, very low frequencies bend ala the ham band. Ducting is the only atmospheric condition that will bend UHF frequencies around the Earth and that happens rarely, maybe twice a year. In Tropspheric Scatter systems
(Raleghies? Distribution) (350 to 1000 megs) most of the UHF signal travels into space while a very small portion is reflected back to Earth 100 to 500 miles away. Tropo systems require Parametric amplifier front ends (noise figure 1.8 db with 10meg bandwidth) and huge parabolic antennas with very high power transmitters aimed a few degrees above the 40 mile horizon point of the Earth. Receiver sensitivites are aproximately -106 dbm for 20 db quieting, roughly about 20 db better than your tv set.
This is why satellite tv systems use narowly focused requencies in the 2 gig range because they go straight into that little teeny weeny parabolic antenna. Higher frequencies also love to be blocked by clouds, rain, and snow as in weather radars and gun and missile control radars. The latter radars have special circuits to eliminate that however.
The higher frequencies require the use of coaxial hard line or waveguide to handle the power levels efficiently and this stuff is expensive. Coaxial Styroflex can handle lower powers but is also expensive. All this stuff is gold flashed internally with teflon spacers and the db loss per hundred feet at 1000 megs is something like .3 db. Even your tv front ends have to be better at the higher frequencies and they are. Styroflex would be a great lead-in for your tv if you could afford it---effectively zero signal loss. At these frequencies another issue prevails in the form of cosmic noise. That's why astronomers use ruby front ends in those huge antennas. So the higher the frequency the less it bends and the more expense is required to handle it.
JJK

Hey everyone... Not sure if this is off topic or has been covered before, but I figured it seems like a great majority of you have been in the trenches and have been dealing with TWC for a while.

I read a Wall Street Journal article about negotiating down your cable/phone bills. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123248760842899491.html)

Has anyone ever tried this with TWC around here? I mean I think between some of the competition out there like Dish, Direct TV, uVerse offering more HD/better pricing that TWC might be willing to do SOMETHING to retain customers.

Just curious if anyone has tried and if so like did it work. Maybe some helpful tips for talking points to the robot CSRs?

Hey everyone... Not sure if this is off topic or has been covered before, but I figured it seems like a great majority of you have been in the trenches and have been dealing with TWC for a while.

I read a Wall Street Journal article about negotiating down your cable/phone bills. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123248760842899491.html)

Has anyone ever tried this with TWC around here? I mean I think between some of the competition out there like Dish, Direct TV, uVerse offering more HD/better pricing that TWC might be willing to do SOMETHING to retain customers.

Just curious if anyone has tried and if so like did it work. Maybe some helpful tips for talking points to the robot CSRs?

I tried it a while back and didn't get anywhere. I tried to get the starting rate for year. I threatened them with D* and they didn't blink.

Let us know if that works out for you. In these times it might work.

I did with Directv. Told them DishNetwork was offering a really good deal and that I needed something to stay with Directv. I wasn't rude or anything, pretty much said I liked Directv, but Dish Network looked like a better offer. The lady said she couldn't do anything and I politely asked if I could speak with someone that could.

Went up a level to another Representative. Told her the same stuff and set my terms, got a free DVR upgrade (with no DVR free for 6 months), another $5 a month credit for 6 months. Ultimately, I did leave Directv some time later because Dish Network offered a bit more plus SOCCER!!! for $10 less a month. But it was nice to be able to get the discount.

The key is be polite, make a good case and set reasonable terms. I can't speak of Time Warner, I had them for 2 months before I went to Sat. That is how much I didn't like Time Warner.

As of 7:40, WJW is down OTA and on cable. Anybody else see this?

I turned on WJW-DT this morning, and I got no picture from the OTA digital signal. So I turned to channel 3.

I use to be able to get the Cleveland Local channels in HD..when I did a QAM of the cable line directly into my TV in Erie Pa..

but as of Last night they were all GONE..(unless they moved them to another location)..

I really liked to watch channel 3.1 news at 7pm and then ET Tonight in HD as our local station in Erie doesn't give us a HD Feed of the show..plus our ABC Station isn't available in HD on Time Warner so I would switch over to the cleveland station to watch an ABC Show in HD

Did they moves the cleveland channels to another spot or did the finally block them in Erie ???

Did they moves the cleveland channels to another spot or did the finally block them in Erie ???Damn Time Warner? Isn't it against the law for them to even make it available to you being in Erie?

Feel free to put blame from that on someone, but that isn't Time Warner's fault.

Damn Time Warner? Isn't it against the law for them to even make it available to you being in Erie?



I'm not certain about that. I think if there is no agreement with the locals in the area they certainly would go to another area to provide coverage.

More then likely in this case they are just fixing up another one of Adelphia's messes they left them. Probably necessary so they can get the SDV going. It's starting on April 1 you know.:rolleyes:

Happy April Fools (early) nickdawg!

K2rj:
That is not true.... <snip>
JJK
Yes it is true. You can believe what you want and try to support it with a potpourri of unrelated technical facts but it doesn't change the fact that all waves can bend around obstructions and the lower the frequency, the more they can bend. That's why VHF & UHF propagation modelling programs use a 4/3 earth radius to compensate for this bending.

Free-space loss is also less for lower frequencies. A 10 mile path at channel 8 (183 MHz) has about 101 dB loss. At channel 31 this same path exhibits over 110 dB loss, which means 10 dB more ERP (10 x the power) is required for the same signal level. This doesn't take into account higher scattering or foilage (both leaf and needle) losses that plague the higher channels and can easily add another 10 dB of loss. Of course, higher-gain antennas are smaller and easier to come by at the higher frequencies, but they can't add power, they only compress the beam (like the lens on a flashlight.) And, if the beam is compressed too much, you wind up losing signal strength closer-in to the tower, so there's only so much you can do with the antenna.

Ummm.....how did I get it wrong? I said "why put an analog tuner in the DTV converter box".

I think I figured it out. There is no analog tuner in a DTV converter box. But there is an analog tuner in the TV. Maybe this person was confused and continued using the TV tuner, rather than the converter tuner?

I could see someone who never had cable not understanding the whole "put the TV on channel 4 and leave it there", like with cable boxes.

what channels are you talking about for April 1st...


I saw where this had been discussed but I was hoping someone might actually know something concrete. I spoke to a technician in Canton this morning and he rattled off a list of HD channels that are to be added by April 1st from a memo he had but the memo also said that date may be postponed. I guess the April 1st date should have been my first clue....

There's (supposedly) a list of channels that are supposed to be added on April 1. He didn't say which ones.

It makes sense. SDV is fully running on almost all the channels that were listed as channels transitioning to SDV.

It's also been said that the former Comcast area is supposed to launch SDV in mid to late February. Mr. Jasso said the whole project is supposed to be completed in March.

Then we're in April. TWC usually starts in Canton. They did with the last project.

Then we're in April. TWC usually starts in Canton. They did with the last project.

On this statement I'm pulling the bs card! One incident and they "usually" do it this way?

I don't think so. Judging by the TW person's statement on OMW the SDV is going to go out to everyone, not you first and us a month later.

On this statement I'm pulling the bs card! One incident and they "usually" do it this way?

I don't think so. Judging by the TW person's statement on OMW the SDV is going to go out to everyone, not you first and us a month later.

He said it was going to be done for everyone in March. Just because SDV is finished, doesn't mean everyone is getting all the channels on the EXACT same date. Someone's always first. Last time it was Canton. If the memo said Canton, I assume they're working the same way again.

Judging by my TV, SDV is here, and coming to your area a month later. :p

As of 7:40, WJW is down OTA and on cable. Anybody else see this?

It must have been serious, because I noticed TWC is using the analog OTA feed for WJW SDTV again :mad::mad::mad::(. I flipped over to "Judge Judy" on channel 8 and I noticed that ugly, clear "FOX8" bug is in the corner of the screen again. Plus the picture looks like shite, the from HD downconversion picture looked much better.

Hey TWC jackasses, WJW-SD is going off the air next week, CHANGE IT BACK!!!

He said it was going to be done for everyone in March. Just because SDV is finished, doesn't mean everyone is getting all the channels on the EXACT same date. Someone's always first. Last time it was Canton. If the memo said Canton, I assume they're working the same way again.

Judging by my TV, SDV is here, and coming to your area a month later. :p

I don't have to tell you what that means.:p

And I don't believe you have SDV. Proove it! Just because you see something on your diagnostic screen does not mean it's active SDV.

I don't have to tell you what that means.:p

And I don't believe you have SDV. Proove it! Just because you see something on your diagnostic screen does not mean it's active SDV.

And just how am I supposed to prove it? I have. The diagnostic screen says the channels are SDV. The channel name has SDV in it. "G4 SDV", "SPORTS1 SDV", etc. The channel's frequency is the same as the SDV frequency listed on the SDV page.

That's the thing, there's no difference between SDV and non SDV channels. And especially once they start adding HD channels, you'll never be able to tell by appearance what's SDV and what's not.

And just how am I supposed to prove it?

Buy a TiVo and let me know if you can't get any channels. Then you will know if you have SDV.

You have 7 days from the time you plug it in and 30 days to return it. Cable cards are at your cost.

That's how you prove it. In the meantime I am very, very skeptical, I don't care what you see on your screen.

Buy a TiVo and let me know if you can't get any channels. Then you will know if you have SDV.

You have 7 days from the time you plug it in and 30 days to return it. Cable cards are at your cost.

That's how you prove it. In the meantime I am very, very skeptical, I don't care what you see on your screen.

You should try out for Last Comic Standing next year. You're good. :D:D:D

Damn Time Warner? Isn't it against the law for them to even make it available to you being in Erie?

Feel free to put blame from that on someone, but that isn't Time Warner's fault.

Yes..I am upset I am not getting the Cleveland HD channels in Erie anymore..but I knew I was ONLY getting them because of the QAM on my HD TV..not because I was suppose to get them through my Cable box....

its sorta like Signing up for HBO and them forgetting to add it to you bill and some months later they figure it out and start to bill you for it...and you say..Damn I don't get it free anymore...

Yespage is, as we say in the online world, a troll. Take it with a grain of salt. I remember a few posts back he/she blew up over something I said. There's just some people who like to fight over everything.

But if you're not getting those channels through a box, then you're not supposed to get them. Considering the mess made by combining all these cable systems(especially ones of lesser quality:p) I'm not surprised channels are out of order.

I think I figured it out. There is no analog tuner in a DTV converter box. But there is an analog tuner in the TV. Maybe this person was confused and continued using the TV tuner, rather than the converter tuner?

I could see someone who never had cable not understanding the whole "put the TV on channel 4 and leave it there", like with cable boxes.

Yeah, that could very well be. ;)

Yespage is, as we say in the online world, a troll. Take it with a grain of salt. I remember a few posts back he/she blew up over something I said. There's just some people who like to fight over everything.



Pretty harsh, nickdawg!:(

I noticed that at the end of their newscast they are still asking if you are ready for the digital transition in February (no date). Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

It must have been serious, because I noticed TWC is using the analog OTA feed for WJW SDTV again :mad::mad::mad::(. I flipped over to "Judge Judy" on channel 8 and I noticed that ugly, clear "FOX8" bug is in the corner of the screen again. Plus the picture looks like shite, the from HD downconversion picture looked much better.

Hey TWC jackasses, WJW-SD is going off the air next week, CHANGE IT BACK!!!
Fine, you get a green screen insted of WJW programming. In case you havn't read the above posts, WJW-DT is down! At least the analog was still there as a back-up.

BTW: this is a fine time to bring up the following issue that has been in my thoughts ever since WJW announced that they were going to shutoff analog on Feb. 17th anyway. Not only is the analog going away, but the current digital signal is also going away (rf 31 is being replaced on rf ch 8). They better start running a "time to rescan soon" promo. Also I wonder if they will run a barker channel on rf 31 alerting viewers to rescan to ch 8 for a time. They will loose a lot of viewers without this warning message. I also wonder if all the carriers (cable and satellite) are ready for the flip to DT on rf 8?

I hope WKYC is paying close attention to how this goes for WJW, since they too will have to have a mass-rescan when they finally get their new tower up and running.

Fine, you get a green screen insted of WJW programming. In case you havn't read the above posts, WJW-DT is down! At least the analog was still there as a back-up.

WJW-DT is on again.

That's the thing, there's no going back once the analog channel is gone. It's time to get ready for the future. WOIO is also the ugly analog feed again, because there were problems with TWC's distribution a few weeks back. They need to get their s**t together, not crawl back to analog.

WKYC and WEWS too. Time to start using the digital sources!!

I noticed that at the end of their newscast they are still asking if you are ready for the digital transition in February (no date). Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

Our attorneys have told us to continue with the required announcements until the President signs the Bill and the FCC gives a little clearer guidelines. (I am not at WEWS but I think most stations have the same orders)

I noticed that at the end of their newscast they are still asking if you are ready for the digital transition in February (no date). Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

I'm watching WEWS SD through TWC on channel 5(which is the analog version) and during Jeopardy! there is no "circle 5" bug on the screen and after the first commercial break there were no Lotto numbers or the crawl about Oprah. The lotto numbers and the crawl were shown on WEWS-HD, but not WEWS SD. It looks like WEWS is starting to abandon the analog SD channel in favor of the HD channel. That's not the behavior I'd expect out of someone who is going to keep this running for another four months, as a majority of cable/satellite viewers are SDTV viewers.

Right now, same thing happened to the Ten-O numbers. Only on HD.

HA! I'm gonna stop watching WEWS HD now!! :D:D

We can't rule out an equipment failure as the cause of this. I would be surprised if they started dismantling their analog plant while it was still on the air.

We can't rule out an equipment failure as the cause of this. I would be surprised if they started dismantling their analog plant while it was still on the air.
You know this morning WJW analog was down for a brief time too. So what you say makes sense.

We can't rule out an equipment failure as the cause of this. I would be surprised if they started dismantling their analog plant while it was still on the air.

The news cut-in during the end credits of Jeopardy was still there, with a 5 bug in the lower right corner. If there was a failure, that would be missing too.

The news cut-in during the end credits of Jeopardy was still there, with a 5 bug in the lower right corner. If there was a failure, that would be missing too.

unless the problem is in MCO and the cut in went through the control room

Fox-8 just announced on the 10pm newscast that they're makikng the switch on June 12th. This seems to disagree with their FCC filing (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=726666). Now I'm puzzled.

The FCC changed the rules today and purposely made it a lot more painful for stations to kill analog. Some stations are backpedaling and not bothering, thus I now have to basically throw away my big list of stations killing analog...

- Trip

The FCC changed the rules today and purposely made it a lot more painful for stations to kill analog. Some stations are backpedaling and not bothering, thus I now have to basically throw away my big list of stations killing analog...

- Trip

This transition will never happen, will it? First they move the date, now they're making it harder to shut off.

Then I find this beauty quote at OMW from Jay Rockefeller:

"While broadcasters are still permitted to move forward on February 17, and some will do so, I hope that many will think of the needs of their customers and carefully weigh their options. This bill gives them an opportunity to stay the course through to June 12 until more help can be put in place."

I hope Senator Jay Rockefeller gets his ass kicked out next election. :mad::mad::mad:

BASTARD

On 5 News at 11, the sports score bar also only appeared on screen on the HD channel, not the SD channel. The regular bug/lower third banners appeared during the show.

The FCC changed the rules today and purposely made it a lot more painful for stations to kill analog. Some stations are backpedaling and not bothering, thus I now have to basically throw away my big list of stations killing analog...

- TripDude... sorry about that becoming a waste of time. Looks like you put a ton of effort into that thing. Oh well... at least you still have your health.

This transition will never happen, will it? First they move the date, now they're making it harder to shut off. The transition is happening. Only 6.5 to 12 million people are without the resources to get digital right now. We are almost there.

I hope Senator Jay Rockefeller gets his ass kicked out next election. :mad::mad::mad:

BASTARDWow. Republicans are obstructing a stimulus package that will help give money to states to get people back to work and you are pissing about a digital transition delay as if the delay is preventing you from receiving digital OTA HD signals.

Wow. Republicans are obstructing a stimulus package that will help give money to states to get people back to work and you are pissing about a digital transition delay as if the delay is preventing you from receiving digital OTA HD signals.

There are many parts of the country where that's true. See Chicago (CBS), Philadelphia (PBS), San Diego (CBS), etc.

- Trip

I just wonder if the decision to delay by WJW had anything to do with that outage yesterday. Maybe they decided to rethink it for a few months.

Wow. Republicans are obstructing a stimulus package that will help give money to states to get people back to work and you are pissing about a digital transition delay as if the delay is preventing you from receiving digital OTA HD signals.

If it is true that delay in transmitting will cost broadcasters money (I'm sure it will) and if what I heard is true about the FCC having to cover these costs then I have to agree (gulp) with nickdawg. It seems like just for a handful of people to make this exception is so unnecessary. And will the FCC have to cover the cost to the wireless providers that have to hold off on additional services? Qualcomm was ready to jump on a huge project on February 17.

Look, I'm not usually for business but if it cost my tax dollars for basically a very small amount of people then I think it was the wrong decision.

The APEX box doesnt have an an analog tuner. Just analog pass-through. Turn the box off and the analog signal works fine.
I'd say these boxes are designed mostly for people that are going to hook them in series with their normal antenna to an older tv that doesnt have S video or component inputs.
They are not designed to be HD boxes.

There are many parts of the country where that's true. See Chicago (CBS), Philadelphia (PBS), San Diego (CBS), etc.

- Trip

If it is true that delay in transmitting will cost broadcasters money (I'm sure it will) and if what I heard is true about the FCC having to cover these costs then I have to agree (gulp) with nickdawg. It seems like just for a handful of people to make this exception is so unnecessary. And will the FCC have to cover the cost to the wireless providers that have to hold off on additional services? Qualcomm was ready to jump on a huge project on February 17.

Look, I'm not usually for business but if it cost my tax dollars for basically a very small amount of people then I think it was the wrong decision.Let me put it another way. I don't give a bloody hell if we've made the digital transition and then I lose my job because states no longer have any money to get public infrastructure jobs started. We are amidst possibly the worst economic crisis ever, and people are bitching about the digital OTA transition being delayed.

The priorities here seem terribly out of touch.

Let me interrupt our usual petty bickering :) to bring up a fairly esoteric problem that I've been having.

I use my computer with HDTV card as a DVR. I capture the shows I want to watch, then watch them later. Recently, I've begun using my PlayStation3 as my playback device. It's a nice setup. But I've got one problem: Lost.

When I record ABC's Lost, the PS3 refuses to play it. It will play every other transport stream file from every other network, but it won't play Lost. I've recorded it using T/W's QAM signal and also using the straight OTA signal, but neither results in a playable file.

Just in case, I asked another PS3 owner to capture the same show using his system. His recording plays perfectly. Same hardware and software from end to end, but with one BIG difference. He is in another city. Different ABC affiliate. In fact, he has access to two ABC stations where he lives, and both of them (Baltimore/Washington) produce Lost recordings that work correctly.

So it appears that something about our local WEWS broadcast is causing the problem. I have no idea what might be different between the Cleveland station and others, but something is causing our local ABC streams to fail on my PS3.

BTW, I've already engaged in a fairly thorough discussion of this issue in forums for the PS3 and also for my MyHD card. So now I thought it might be worthwhile to explore it with other local viewers.

Any other local people using a PS3 to play back HDTV transport streams?

Let me interrupt our usual petty bickering :) to bring up a fairly esoteric problem that I've been having.

I use my computer with HDTV card as a DVR. I capture the shows I want to watch, then watch them later. Recently, I've begun using my PlayStation3 as my playback device. It's a nice setup. But I've got one problem: Lost.

When I record ABC's Lost, the PS3 refuses to play it. It will play every other transport stream file from every other network, but it won't play Lost. I've recorded it using T/W's QAM signal and also using the straight OTA signal, but neither results in a playable file.

Just in case, I asked another PS3 owner to capture the same show using his system. His recording plays perfectly. Same hardware and software from end to end, but with one BIG difference. He is in another city. Different ABC affiliate. In fact, he has access to two ABC stations where he lives, and both of them (Baltimore/Washington) produce Lost recordings that work correctly.

So it appears that something about our local WEWS broadcast is causing the problem. I have no idea what might be different between the Cleveland station and others, but something is causing our local ABC streams to fail on my PS3.

BTW, I've already engaged in a fairly thorough discussion of this issue in forums for the PS3 and also for my MyHD card. So now I thought it might be worthwhile to explore it with other local viewers.

Any other local people using a PS3 to play back HDTV transport streams?

Jim can you play it on your PC? I don't have any problems recording or transfering Lost so I really don't know what the problem is but my guess is something in the Computer to Playstation IF you are able to play it on the computer.

Very strange, I'll say that much.

What kind of file ending does your recording have?

Let me put it another way. I don't give a bloody hell if we've made the digital transition and then I lose my job because states no longer have any money to get public infrastructure jobs started. We are amidst possibly the worst economic crisis ever, and people are bitching about the digital OTA transition being delayed.

The priorities here seem terribly out of touch.

Bitching about the DTV delay in an HD / DTV forum seems appropriate to me.

I understand your concerns about the economy and your job future, but there are numerous political blogs and forums for such rantings. I, personally, don't mind such mentions in here. But his commenting/opinion about the DTV delay is FAR more on topic than your comments about republicans and stimulus spending. :)

The "priority" for people coming to this forum is for DTV discussions, not political/economic discussion.

The "priority" for people coming to this forum is for DTV discussions, not political/economic discussion.

The name of the thread is Cleveland, OH - HDTV so technically speaking we are suppose to focus on HD. However having said that and since digital and HD are so linked together, you are absolutely right.

Other appropriate topics are SDV, Cable, Satellite, and any conversation about my parrots.:D;)

The name of the thread is Cleveland, OH - HDTV so technically speaking we are suppose to focus on HD. However having said that and since digital and HD are so linked together, you are absolutely right.

Other appropriate topics are SDV, Cable, Satellite, and any conversation about my parrots.:D;)

Hey, I *love* the parrot updates! ;)

(note: no tongue)

That's exactly my point---why the flying f**kity f**k is Congress/the House wasting all this time trying to delay the DTV transition? They spent about three weeks or more on this. It was one of their first priorities, in a time when there are much more serious issues, like the economy. Digital TV should go ahead as planned to take a serious weight off broadcast TV, so they can avoid layoffs/firings and maybe even hire new people---create jobs.

Let me put it another way. I don't give a bloody hell if we've made the digital transition and then I lose my job because states no longer have any money to get public infrastructure jobs started. We are amidst possibly the worst economic crisis ever, and people are bitching about the digital OTA transition being delayed.

The priorities here seem terribly out of touch.

OK, let ME put it another way.

One of the reasons I'M frustrated about this is that Congress is actually wasting time by dealing with this at all. They've spent considerable time in the past month or so grandstanding on this, trying to make it appear that they're Doing Something to fix a big problem. They're only delaying it.

Shortly after this delay was approved by the Senate, but before the House finally weighed in, you couldn't go through a news feed without being bombarded by the "old people will lose their companionshiip from TV and will die a horrible, lonely death" stories...with a twinge of "old people will try to get up on the snowy roof to fix the antenna and will fall to their death" theme mixed in.

The New York Times alone ran a story a day for two days in this theme. The AP followed along. (We learned that the Meals on Wheels program in Houston was helping elderly people there. Let's hope they brought along some food!)

Oddly enough, that recent Nielsen study apparently says that older people are more prepared for the transition than younger people. Huh?

Now that the date is June 12, and seems firmly set, we just moved along the problems to June. Then, we'll have to put up with stories about people losing TV for one reason or another, and the old people fixing the antenna on the roof will not slip off the snow, but they'll risk being hit by lightning.

Those of us who have even a remote interest in the technical/operations side of TV - well, we know that this has been drilled into peoples' heads for well over a year, and has been proposed since 2005. Congress should have passed a quick bill fixing the coupon program, made it possible for people to buy boxes immediately with future $40 rebate, and moved on.

I understand nickdawg's frustration with Sen. Rockefeller. He's been providing loaded quotes with little facts behind them ("America is not ready!") as a politician hoping to curry favor with voting blocks.

But all Congress is doing, basically, is moving the "how do we deal with it" question to June. The coupon program funding problems are still NOT FIXED.

The new law, when signed, will make some changes...but the money to fund them won't come in until the overall stimulus bill is passed. Right now, they're fighting about the size of that plan, and it isn't getting passed today.

How does THAT help people waiting for those coupons? How long will it take to get the money going to clear that list? I've heard it could be as late as April. Now, we're back to as little as 30-60 days until the new date, assuming the coupons aren't going out by Pony Express.

Are we going to sit here in June and hear calls for the date to be moved again? October? Next year?

Look, as a viewer, I don't personally care. My regular TVs are all connected to cable. I have a couple of OTA sets with converter boxes (kitchen, etc.), but they're mostly for light viewing/hobby. I have no urgent need to get WKYC or WVIZ in my kitchen.

But this is ridiculous. The analog signals MUST be shut off at some point - the government has already taken the money from the commercial interests in auction, for one. Whether you think the new commercial ventures are great or not, doesn't matter...they have bought the rights to use the spectrum, and have the right to take it over.

Get it over with, and fix the problems afterward.

And like you, I realize that the current economy should be priority 1, 2, 3, 3a, 4, 5, etc. for Congress. They should not be wasting time trying to curry favor, presumably, with older voters by making it look like they're saving them from TV Death.

Jim can you play it on your PC? I don't have any problems recording or transfering Lost so I really don't know what the problem is but my guess is something in the Computer to Playstation IF you are able to play it on the computer.

Very strange, I'll say that much.

What kind of file ending does your recording have?

I wonder if he could run the recording through something like VideoReDo, rewrite it, and have that recording play on his PS3. Maybe that'd strip some of the WEWS-introduced problems.

Jim can you play it on your PC? I don't have any problems recording or transfering Lost so I really don't know what the problem is but my guess is something in the Computer to Playstation IF you are able to play it on the computer.

Very strange, I'll say that much.

What kind of file ending does your recording have?

I wonder if he could run the recording through something like VideoReDo, rewrite it, and have that recording play on his PS3. Maybe that'd strip some of the WEWS-introduced problems.

The recordings play fine on my PC. And, yes, it is certainly possible to convert the recording into one that the PS3 will play using software. But that defeats the purpose, which is ease-of-use. There should be no need for an extra step.

The transport stream is encoded in MPEG2 and AC3. It's 1280x720x59.94 at about 17Mbps.

The problem is between WEWS and the PlayStation3. WEWS streams play fine everywhere except the PS3. But the PS3 plays streams from all other networks without difficulty. And it plays streams from other ABC affiliates without difficulty. So the problem is linked solely to the intersection between WEWS and the PS3.

Anybody else here using a PS3?

The recordings play fine on my PC. And, yes, it is certainly possible to convert the recording into one that the PS3 will play using software. But that defeats the purpose, which is ease-of-use. There should be no need for an extra step.

I'm not suggesting that doing the conversion would be your final solution...it might, though, provide another data point. (And, if it works, it could allow you to watch the show on the PS3 until you figured out the solution.)

I'm wondering if a simple rewrite of the stream as an MPEG2 stream would work, or if there's something else in there (presumably inserted on WEWS) that would cause this. Remember my own problems with my old USB HDTV tuner and WJW locking it up on changes from national to local breaks? This would appear to be similar, though I can't be of a lot of help since I don't have a PS3...

Let me interrupt our usual petty bickering :) to bring up a fairly esoteric problem that I've been having.

.............................
BTW, I've already engaged in a fairly thorough discussion of this issue in forums for the PS3 and also for my MyHD card. So now I thought it might be worthwhile to explore it with other local viewers.

Any other local people using a PS3 to play back HDTV transport streams?

I don't use my PS3 to play back recorded TV shows, but I do use it for a number of other video formats. The PS3 can be picky about certain video playback and transcoding. Because of this my PS3 uses three different media sharing/transcoding packages (WMP11, Tversity, ps3mediaserver) depending on the video file type being selected.

Do your recorded shows need to be transcoded after it leaves your MyHD card? Or is this distributed in a native format the PS3 can handle on it's own?

I have *NO* experience with PC video tuning/recording cards or interconnects. :(

Do your recorded shows need to be transcoded after it leaves your MyHD card? Or is this distributed in a native format the PS3 can handle on it's own?

I have *NO* experience with PC video tuning/recording cards or interconnects. :(

What video formats are supported on the PS3?

It sounds like Jim is just feeding it a standard MPEG2 format, which most of these cards record natively. Both of mine do.

Maybe I can record a snippet of something on WEWS that Jim is having trouble with, and see if his PS3 chokes on that. If it does, that'd eliminate the MyHD card as a source of the problem, as I don't have one of those.

It could be an encoder setting on their end. I've heard in the Cincinnati thread about some software not handling one or two of the local stations because of a flag in the video feed. I wish I could remember the details, but Nitewatchman had a good analysis.

Maybe it's a similar problem?

- Trip

Unfortunately when it comes to the OTA transport streams, this data is the equivalent of dirty/raw data and the format of such varies between stations. Normally it should not cause problems but as Inundated mentioned, WJW seems to be a major offender. Just for confirmation, check out the Firewire/Cable STB recording thread on this forum and see how many posts there are talking about how the transport streams are corrupted or otherwise wreaking havoc on the recording/playback programs.

VideoRedo would probably be your best bet and wouldn't add that much of a step to the process. The only alternative is to try and convince WJW that something on their end is buggered and that would be a lost cause right away.

Edit: Forgot the OP is dealing with WEWS. All the same though...

Answering my own question:

http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/video/filetypes.html


The following types of files can be played under (Video).

* Memory Stick Video Format
* - MPEG-4 SP (AAC LC)
* - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile （AAC LC）
* - MPEG-2 TS（H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, AAC LC）
* MP4 file format
* - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile (AAC LC)
* MPEG-1 (MPEG Audio Layer 2)
* MPEG-2 PS (MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AAC LC, AC3(Dolby Digital), LPCM)
* MPEG-2 TS（MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AC3（Dolby Digital）, AAC LC）
* MPEG-2 TS（H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, AAC LC）
* AVI
* - Motion JPEG (Linear PCM)
* - Motion JPEG (μ-Law)
* AVCHD （.m2ts / .mts）
* DivX
* WMV
* - VC-1（WMA Standard V2）


Sounds pretty extensive.

Jim, could you set your MyHD to directly record in one of the other formats? I don't know what it supports. I think I can set my own USB HD stick to record in different formats besides MPEG2.

What video formats are supported on the PS3?

It sounds like Jim is just feeding it a standard MPEG2 format, which most of these cards record natively. Both of mine do.

Maybe I can record a snippet of something on WEWS that Jim is having trouble with, and see if his PS3 chokes on that. If it does, that'd eliminate the MyHD card as a source of the problem, as I don't have one of those.

MPEG2 should be no problem for a PS3. I'm wondering if the MyHD card might be transcoding it to something else (wild guess).

He might want to try taking a WEWS recording (or a portion there of) and drop it into his shared video folder and let a server program like Tversity or ps3mediaserver take a run at transcoding it, just for testing purposes.

Jim, could you set your MyHD to directly record in one of the other formats? I don't know what it supports. I think I can set my own USB HD stick to record in different formats besides MPEG2.

The problem comes in that the OTA stream is in mpeg2 originally and is what these cards rely on to keep reliance on extra hardware or cpu power low. This in comparison to older NTSC cards that were either software based and relied solely on the cpu to encode the video or extra mpeg2 encoder chips on the card to do the job.

If he was to choose a different format (other than an mpeg2 based format), it would put a load on the cpu to transcode and would probably create more problems than it's worth.

NOW a possible solution: Check to see if the card is capable of giving you a straight mpeg (*.mpeg *.mpg) file rather than a transport stream (*.ts). If it can do that, it should strip all the extra crap data and just give you the video and audio which should appease the PS3. If not, use VideoRedo. It essentially will do the same thing. No transcoding. Just strips the garbage data.

Vchat, you're correct...even on my dual-core laptop, setting the USB HDTV capture software to record directly into other formats overwhelms the computer. I tried recording directly to MP4, and the thing locked up.

OK, I'm kinda in over my head here, and Jim has already gone through this in the AVS Forum thread dedicated to his MyHD card:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493691&page=184

And I noticed this from him:


I captured four shows tonight: CSI, CBS News, Heroes, and Jeopardy. The two CBS shows and the NBC show played perfectly. The NBC show came in at around 13.5mbps, while the two CBS shows came in at 16.3 (News) and 16.75 (CSI). Jeopardy (again ABC) used the highest data rate at 17.3mbps, slightly less than Lost did last week. And it was the only program of the four that did NOT play correctly.


We may have stumbled onto a data point here.

"Jeopardy" is not an ABC show. It's syndicated (King World), and recorded/played back by WEWS in HD.

So, wherever the problem is, it is not likely at the ABC network level, since that isn't a network show. I suspect if Jim records the local news on 5, it'll have the same problem on his PS3. So, we're back to WEWS.

I can record a snippet of WEWS HD, small enough to send, and see if Jim has trouble with it on his PS3 end. I can record off of both OTA and TWC QAM.

It could be an encoder setting on their end. I've heard in the Cincinnati thread about some software not handling one or two of the local stations because of a flag in the video feed. I wish I could remember the details, but Nitewatchman had a good analysis.

Maybe it's a similar problem?


Well, if it's off of their ABC affiliate, it could well be the SAME problem - as Scripps owns both WEWS and Cincinnati ABC affiliate WCPO. And since groups tend to buy similar equipment and run stations in a similar way...

Well, if it's off of their ABC affiliate, it could well be the SAME problem - as Scripps owns both WEWS and Cincinnati ABC affiliate WCPO. And since groups tend to buy similar equipment and run stations in a similar way...

I don't remember. I want to say it was the Hearst-owned NBC station down there, but I don't remember for sure which one it was. Dig through the thread 2-3 months ago and you'll probably find it.

- Trip

Well, if it's off of their ABC affiliate, it could well be the SAME problem - as Scripps owns both WEWS and Cincinnati ABC affiliate WCPO. And since groups tend to buy similar equipment and run stations in a similar way...

Dorothy Fuldhiem put a *curse* on WEWS. :D

I don't remember. I want to say it was the Hearst-owned NBC station down there, but I don't remember for sure which one it was. Dig through the thread 2-3 months ago and you'll probably find it.


I did, and it was indeed WLWT, not WCPO.

Nice try, though!

I wonder if Nitewatchman would have any more help/input for Jim's situation.

OK, let ME put it another way.

One of the reasons I'M frustrated about this is that Congress is actually wasting time by dealing with this at all. They've spent considerable time in the past month or so grandstanding on this, trying to make it appear that they're Doing Something to fix a big problem. They're only delaying it.
...
I'll be pragmatic here. You are right on your points.

I'll be pragmatic here. You are right on your points.

And for me, life goes on. I watch almost everything via cable, including all the major HD local network affiliates. I have the digital OTA converter box (one down here in the office), and can watch most of the OTA digital stations.

Despite the fact I wanted the switch to happen on time, when they told everyone it was going to happen, when they pummeled it into our heads for a year, when even my non-technology literate father knows about it... it looks to be June 12th for most people now, and if Fox 8 isn't switching early, I don't think anyone else here will.

It affects me none. But there's nothing that says I can't gripe about it (and the ridiculous "We're Doing Something" grandstanding in Congress) on a forum dedicated to HDTV. I'm not going out there and talking to people about this on the streets...when I shut down this computer, it's not an issue to me.

I did, and it was indeed WLWT, not WCPO.

Nice try, though!

I wonder if Nitewatchman would have any more help/input for Jim's situation.

Could it not still be the same issue, or is it only on 1080i stations?

- Trip

Honestly: The only way it affects those of us who have Cable HDTV as an option is for those low-budget stations who still don't do local programming or syndicated programming in native HD. And unfortunately that /IS/ a pet peeve of mine. As retarded as it sounds, sometimes I wish I lived in Cleveland so I could use WKYC as my regular local news source.

If they could have just gotten this damn transition over with this month, all of these stations could have cut back on expenses keeping those analog transmitters going and be that much closer to affording the equipment needed to begin running native HD programming.

But other than that, no, I could care less on the matter. All the 'DTV transition' ads and crawls are merely a minor annoyance and even if the economy were to take a complete dump tomorrow and we had to switch back to broadcast tv, I have an HD set with a digital tuner anyway.

Other appropriate topics are SDV, Cable, Satellite, and any conversation about my parrots.:D;)

Your parrots are on topic, because they watch digital TV and downconverted HDTV on a CECB. :D

Could it not still be the same issue, or is it only on 1080i stations?


No, WEWS is 720p (ABC), and WLWT is 1080i (NBC).

Jim's earlier messages say he was having no problem with the local 1080i stations.

No, WEWS is 720p (ABC), and WLWT is 1080i (NBC).

Jim's earlier messages say he was having no problem with the local 1080i stations.

No, you're missing my question. I know they're different resolutions, I'm saying is the flag in question specific to 1080i, or could that also be the problem with WEWS's 720p.

- Trip

No, you're missing my question. I know they're different resolutions, I'm saying is the flag in question specific to 1080i, or could that also be the problem with WEWS's 720p.


That, I don't know. I wonder if Nitewatchman or someone else could do more of that flag analysis to help answer that question.

Wow. Thank you ALL. I'm amazed at the amount of discussion regarding my little problem with "Lost". A lot of questions have come up - I'll try to comment and/or answer some of them. The MyHD card captures into a transport stream format. That format, like most video formats, is an envelope that can contain any number of different kinds of encoding. In my case, the encoding is MPEG2 video with AC3 audio (aka Dolby Digital). That is probably the most common format in use, and the PS3 supports it directly.

The actual files produced by the MyHD system are assigned a *.tp filename, but they can be renamed as *.ts or *.m2ts without any impact. The PS3 will (or should anyway) play any of them.

It is quite possible to translate these files into a format that WILL play. That can be done through transcoding (ala PSM or TVersity), or through standalone software like TsMuxer or VideoReDo. In fact, even a simple recreation of the file using TsMuxer without any recoding will also allow the video to play. Same exact MPG2 data, same exact AC3 audio, no recoding at all, just recreating the basic TS envelope allows it to work.

I don't think that the MyHD is the issue, but I certainly welcome Inundated's offer of a capture from his HD card. Keep in mind that you'd probably just want to capture a few seconds of signal. These files get big in a hurry. And 5-10 seconds is plenty to see whether or not it works.

Trip's point about an encoder setting is quite interesting. I know that the WEWS engineer visits here occasionally, perhaps he'll spot this thread on his next visit.

And unfortunately, the problem isn't quite as clear cut as I've presented it. Here's another wrinkle. I have four episodes of Lost on my hard drive at the moment. The first three of them exhibit the behavior that I've described here. The most recent one, though, is different. It plays perfectly - as long as you don't mind silence. The video is flawless, but the PS3 sees no audio whatsoever in the stream.

All four of them play perfectly on all of my various PC players (MyHD, Windows Media, Zoom Player, Media Player Classic, VLC). All four of them have identical A/V parameters:

General
ID : 1
Complete name : G:\DriveD\Lost\Lost-090204-2100.tp
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 7.24 GiB
Duration : 1h 1mn
Overall bit rate : 16.7 Mbps

Video
ID : 81 (0x51)
Menu ID : 5 (0x5)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 1h 1mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 15.7 Mbps
Nominal bit rate : 38.8 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Standard : Component
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.284

Audio
ID : 84 (0x54)
Menu ID : 5 (0x5)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Video delay : -558ms
Language : English

I'm going to try to capture a bunch of WEWS programs over the next few days just to see which ones work and which ones fail. Maybe a few more data points will help.

Well, like I already stated: Transport streams especially from OTA and QAM sources are the equivalent of raw/dirty data and may or may not play nice with certain applications depending on how resilient they are. The video and audio data probably is not the issue, but rather the header/PSIP/metadata that is included in the transport stream. Unless you are willing to fight with WEWS/WJW to fix it, a program like VideoRedo that is designed to leave the video and audio data untouched but strip/fix said extraneous data will do the job with minimal fuss. Or if the MyHD software has an option of producing a 'Program Stream' (classic .mpeg or .mpg files), that should solve all the problems right away.

And in the case of the transport stream container: Yes, it can contain any multitude of video and audio formats. But in the case of OTA, it is strictly MPEG2 video and AC3 audio to keep it compliant with the limited decoders in current ATSC tuners. They COULD do PCM audio, but that results in much higher bitrates, no capability for surround audio, and with subchannels it is wasted bandwidth.

Your parrots are on topic, because they watch digital TV and downconverted HDTV on a CECB. :D

Did you know that parrot behaviorist and vets recommend an HD television for birds,because of their acute vision. They actually see more detail in the HD picture then we do! Now how they know this, I have no idea but that's what they say.

President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Interesting find! Though, I don't see the part where the president "won't sign until he hears" what we have to say.

He doesn't have much time, of course.

I don't think that the MyHD is the issue, but I certainly welcome Inundated's offer of a capture from his HD card. Keep in mind that you'd probably just want to capture a few seconds of signal. These files get big in a hurry. And 5-10 seconds is plenty to see whether or not it works.


OK, I'll set up the USB tuner and dip into WEWS' stream a few times - during locally-run HD programming, during upconverted programming, and during whatever ABC runs in HD tonight. That'll give you three data points on my end.

It certainly can't hurt!


Trip's point about an encoder setting is quite interesting. I know that the WEWS engineer visits here occasionally, perhaps he'll spot this thread on his next visit.


My gut feeling is that Trip's onto something here. I don't remember a WEWS engineering type visiting, though.

Interesting find! Though, I don't see the part where the president "won't sign until he hears" what we have to say.

He doesn't have much time, of course.

The president part was in this article
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173712-White_House_Seeks_Comment_on_Delay_Bill.php

Interesting find! Though, I don't see the part where the president "won't sign until he hears" what we have to say.

He doesn't have much time, of course.

Regardless, I submitted my comments.

On a side note, I absolutely LOVE how they updated the whitehouse.gov site. It's actually worth checking out now! :eek:

President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

I think this is just a BS "we care and we want to hear from you" marketing ploy. BO has already expressed support for the delay.
That and collect more emails for DNC campaign spam!

But, to be on the safe side, I did as I do every November: I voted six times. :D

President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Oh I have something to say. Something that would get me tossed into gitmo, so I'll refrain!! :D:D:D

I don't think the president is a fan of my **style** of writing as the people here are. ;) :cool::cool::cool:

The recordings play fine on my PC. And, yes, it is certainly possible to convert the recording into one that the PS3 will play using software. But that defeats the purpose, which is ease-of-use. There should be no need for an extra step.

The transport stream is encoded in MPEG2 and AC3. It's 1280x720x59.94 at about 17Mbps.

The problem is between WEWS and the PlayStation3. WEWS streams play fine everywhere except the PS3. But the PS3 plays streams from all other networks without difficulty. And it plays streams from other ABC affiliates without difficulty. So the problem is linked solely to the intersection between WEWS and the PS3.

Anybody else here using a PS3?


Jim... is it just "Lost" or all WEWS programming? Does local originated programming play? Syndicated?

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused:

I think I'll ask the obvious question here, why are you watching TV shows on a PS3? Why not watch TV on TV? ;)

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused:

I think I'll ask the obvious question here, why are you watching TV shows on a PS3? Why not watch TV on TV? ;)

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Maybe because the PS3 is connected to a tv and he would rather watch the shows time-shifted? *shrug*

Maybe because the PS3 is connected to a tv and he would rather watch the shows time-shifted? *shrug*

That's why we have DVRs. They time shift shows without all the hassle.

I swear, technology is getting more absurd every day. Just watch it, one day there will be a microwave oven capable of recording and playing back TV shows. Or an oven with internet access. Or a refrigerator with a built in phone. Or a toilet paper holder with wifi. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

From that B&C article:


President Barack Obama, as part of his pledge of openness and transparency, said he would give the public five days to comment on bills before he signed them.


So it sounds like this isn't "President Obama wants more comment on the DTV Delay Bill", but just part of the standard procedure in the Obama White House. Besides, the Obama transition team came up with this in the first place, so they're not likely to delay him signing it for any reason other than a general delay as quoted above.

The faulty wording our poster here picked up on is in the headline, not in the article.

Using a PS3 as a "media center" is entirely within its mission, by the way. It is not just a game machine.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused:

I think I'll ask the obvious question here, why are you watching TV shows on a PS3? Why not watch TV on TV? ;)

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

His computer is his DVR. The PS3 is networked to his computer. ;)

Jim... is it just "Lost" or all WEWS programming? Does local originated programming play? Syndicated?Good question. As was reported earlier, I had trouble with a recording of Jeopardy, but I haven't tested a lot of other shows. I'm doing that now - I've got eight shows scheduled to capture this evening. Local News, Network news, primetime shows (HD and non-HD), late night shows. I'll report tomorrow on what works and what doesn't.

And, yes, I use my PS3 as the playback device for the programs captured by my computer. Isn't that what everyone uses their PS3 for? I've heard you can play games with it, but that really doesn't interest me. The main purpose of a PS3 is to play audio/video media - BluRay discs, upsampled DVDs, captured TV shows, music library playlists, other audio/video downloaded or streamed from the internet, digital photo slide shows, etc.

Oh I have something to say. Something that would get me tossed into gitmo, so I'll refrain!! :D:D:D

I don't think the president is a fan of my **style** of writing as the people here are. ;) :cool::cool::cool:

Let me ask the obvious: Who say's you have fans?

You're a legend in you own mind.:p:p:p

Good question. As was reported earlier, I had trouble with a recording of Jeopardy, but I haven't tested a lot of other shows. I'm doing that now - I've got eight shows scheduled to capture this evening. Local News, Network news, primetime shows (HD and non-HD), late night shows. I'll report tomorrow on what works and what doesn't.

I don't think I'm gonna make it to my laptop upstairs in time for the 6 PM news (and I have to rescan my USB HDTV stick because I've been out of town), but I'll get WNT, Jeopardy, some prime time and part of the 11 PM news, Nightline and Kimmel.

BTW, I invited Nitewatchman into the thread...he says he'll try to get over here.

You can change the "TP ending to "MPG" on the MY-HD 120 card captures as I do to plop it into the Sony Vegas editor. Although I haven't captured anything in months and I don't know if all the different apps will play it. The PS-3 is supposed to play anything including streams.
JJK

Hi, everyone -- Probably can't be of much help for Jim's problem -- FWIW, My best guess though after reading through some of the posts involved is that I suspect vchat is on the right track -- Here's some thoughts though, again FWIW :


It could be an encoder setting on their end. I've heard in the Cincinnati thread about some software not handling one or two of the local stations because of a flag in the video feed. I wish I could remember the details, but Nitewatchman had a good analysis.


Oh, That was just a dumb thing on my part as I didn't realize they were/are sending Telecine("Pulldown") flags, and at the time I was using a demuxer(and some editing software), developed mostly for use in Europe where they don't generally use Telecine flags, and which I also didn't realize didn't support those flags. It also wasn't an issue for playback or decoding. I think somewhere In the Cincinnati thread I went into some of a bit of what that actually means in some detail.

I probably wasn't too clear in some of those posts in Cincy thread(my fault), but in Summary --- WLWT and some other stations sending the telecine flags in area weren't/aren't doing anything "wrong", that's perfectly normal and is supported by MPEG2 ... although oddly enough some decoders which work fine with it for 1080i or 480i, however apparently don't support it properly when the telecine flags are utilized by a station sending 720p -- what happens when that's an issue is that those decoders "drop" frames) ... And I also don't think the specific issue involved would be involved for Jim's issue ...

----------------------------------------------------


Unfortunately when it comes to the OTA transport streams, this data is the equivalent of dirty/raw data and the format of such varies between stations....



Well, like I already stated: Transport streams especially from OTA and QAM sources are the equivalent of raw/dirty data and may or may not play nice with certain applications depending on how resilient they are. The video and audio data probably is not the issue, but rather the header/PSIP/metadata that is included in the transport stream.


I'd bet Vchat is on the right track, and I'm thinking along those same lines regarding the most likely issue involved.

I don't know, but for the most part I also doubt it is because there is really anything that is necessarily "wrong" with WEWS's TS, or PSIP/etc ...

I know nothing about the PS3 and any oddities it might have regarding demuxing ATSC compliant MPEG2 Transport streams and any oddities that might be involved regarding properly identifying and decoding the Elementary MPEG2 Video/AC3 audio streams :

But I do know certian demuxers and other software tools I've used seem to run into certian "oddities" with certian stations transport streams, and not others, whearas other software that do the same things have no problems, and I can also find, in these cases nothing actually "wrong" with the TS's or what the stations are doing ----- Especially regarding one demuxer and one particular station in my area's anudio stream(even if there are NO errors found with various "error checking" software in the TS or the AC3 Stream), or in other cases when there are certian errors in the stream involved, such as can sometimes occur due to continuity/TEI errors because of "reception issues", or for other reasons on the "station end", such as say, a corrupted packet in a AC3 audio stream here or there, or video/audio timestamp gaps/etc ....


It is quite possible to translate these files into a format that WILL play. That can be done through transcoding (ala PSM or TVersity), or through standalone software like TsMuxer or VideoReDo. In fact, even a simple recreation of the file using TsMuxer without any recoding will also allow the video to play. Same exact MPG2 data, same exact AC3 audio, no recoding at all, just recreating the basic TS envelope allows it to work.


Given TSmuxer works ...What happens if you run MPEG2repair on it ?

I don't know/didn't investigate whether your cap card or software used for the cap is stripping stuff out of the TS you aren't "using"(such as null packets, PSIP, streams for subchannels/etc) ....

But, Maybe try running a cap from WEWS that won't play/won't play properly on the PS3 through MPEG2repair -- Which will strip out everything from the TS except the PAT/PMT and elementary Video/audio streams you want, the PIDs will be renumbered as well - otherwise I think the TS pretty much stays as WEWS would send it except for any errors repaired.

Then see if the file processed with MPEG2repair will play properly on the PS3, and also maybe attach the MPEG2repair error log invloved to a post here, as it might be interesting to see what's in there error wise(if anything) ....

If you don't have it, you can get MPEG2repair here (just scroll a bit to find it) :

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/digitaltv-dvb-hdtv


The problem is between WEWS and the PlayStation3. WEWS streams play fine everywhere except the PS3.


Probably very unlikely te following is involved, but only other possibility I can think of at present might involve the following --- Only reason I'm even bringing it up is because of what you're experiencing, and because I think a lot of hardware/software for HTPC would probably just ignore broadcast flag "issues'(MCE would be an exception to that, and I also thought perhaps hardware such as PS3 might be an exception as well). and, I don't know, and I haven't actually tested this, but running it through TsMuxer might just "strip out" the "broadcast flag" stuff :

At first after reading through the posts involved with your issue, I wondered if maybe there was some sort of possibility implementation by WEWS of the ATSC redistrubtion control descriptor (the infamous "broadcast flag") might be involved ... But, I looked at the TSreader caps of WEWS on Trip's site, and I didn't see any sign of that in their streams, at least at the time the caps were taken, as it is possible it doesn't have to be sent all the time ... If it were there, It would probably most likely show up in the PMT ... For example, you'll see it via the "fox splicer" from Fox affiliates when Fox programming is running in the PMT for the program stream involved like this :

Descriptor: ATSC Redistribution Control Descriptor

If that were an issue, though I'd expect others (such as using MCE) might be having some issues ...

Also, I'd be surprised if the RC descriptor was in WEWS stream, since it isn't in the TSreader caps on rabbitears, and since WCPO here (scripps+ABC affiliate as mentioned) doesn't have it in their stream either ....

Probably very unlikely this is involved, but only other(again very unlikely I'd think) possibility I can think of at present might involve the following --- Only reason I'm even bringing it up is because of what you're experiencing, and because I think a lot of hardware/software for HTPC would probably just ignore broadcast flag "issues'(MCE would be an exception to that, and I also thought perhaps hardware such as PS3 might be an exception as well). and, I don't know, and I haven't actually tested this, but running it through TsMuxer might just "strip out" the "broadcast flag" stuff :

But to get this out of the way just in case it might be a "possible issue" involved : At first after reading through the posts involved with your issue, I wondered if maybe there was some sort of possibility implementation by WEWS of the ATSC redistrubtion control descriptor (the infamous "broadcast flag") might be involved ... But, I looked at the TSreader caps of WEWS on Trip's site, and I didn't see any sign of that in their streams, at least at the time the caps were taken, as it is possible it doesn't have to be sent all the time ... If it were there, It would probably most likely show up in the PMT ... For example, you'll see it via the "fox splicer" from Fox affiliates when Fox programming is running in the PMT for the program stream involved like this :



I'd like to be clear on what you mean by an "infamous broadcast flag." The only type of flags I've ever heard of are the one's that cable companies use to keep you from duplicating a broadcast, i.e. 0x02 which would limit you to copy once and you would not be able to do any transfer.

This type of flag however cannot be implemented on a local channel. By law, locals have to be "copy freely."

I'm probably way off base on what you're talking about which is why I'm asking for clarification.

Actually hookbill, ATSC has had a copy flag feature for a while much similar to the one used by cableco's. And in some cases, some stations have used it or still are using it. But that's as far as my knowledge goes on the subject. But I do remember there being a fiasco with NBC regarding this copy flag a while back.

Edit : vchat Re: ^ Yeah, It's "turned off"(copy freely as it should be), currently, but as I noted earlier, it's there from Fox's encoder via any station using the feed from the splicer, currently, during Fox programming. And, several other stations down here using Flexicoders(including one PBS station and 2 CBS affiliates, and that might be partly a "CBS" thing as well as a "Flexicoder" thing) which as I recall had to be updated to support the Broadcast flag when they thought they'd be able to use it for "copy once" status have the RC descriptor in their streams in the case of the flexicoder stations here It shows up in their PMTs via TSReader as "ATSC redistribution Control Descriptor:ff "...

I'd like to be clear on what you mean by an "infamous broadcast flag." The only type of flags I've ever heard of are the one's that cable companies use to keep you from duplicating a broadcast, i.e. 0x02 which would limit you to copy once and you would not be able to do any transfer.

This type of flag however cannot be implemented on a local channel. By law, locals have to be "copy freely."


This why I almost didn't post about "that part" ;) --- Just kidding!

You're not off base, regarding the current law as it applies to "copy freely" and broadcasters signals, but nevertheless The RC descriptior can still be present and cause issues in some cases -- Here's several links with some info :

A lot of info and posts about RC descriptor in this thread(there was a particular one of interest I know I had read on this thread posted by Ron/Dr1394, but I couldn't dig that particular one up) :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=9767673&postcount=3600

Microsoft confirms Windows adheres to broadcast flag :

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9946780-7.html

NBC, Microsoft raise the Broadcast flag :

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/61974

Microsoft and NBC enforce the Nonexistant Broadcast Flag, WTF? (http://www.boingboing.net/2008/05/16/microsoft-and-nbc-en.html)

NBC - Vista Copy-Protection snafu reminds us why DRM stinks ( http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2008/05/nbc-vista-copy-protection-snafu-reminds-us-why-drm-stinks.ars)

I must be living in a cave! How I never heard about any of this amazes me. Thanks for the links and info.

I have all the captures I mentioned, ready to send up to Jim, if I can figure out how. I haven't looked at how big they are, for one, and I'm tired, and going to bed shortly I hope.

I'll check back tomorrow.

Nitewatchman, thanks for joining us in here and for helping out. Those TSReader caps of the locals here were all done by me, for Trip's site, and I don't THINK I took them in network programming hours. I seem to recall I did most of 'em on my laptop during the day. I don't know if that means anything or not. :D

The outlying stations were done in a car on a road trip (WMFD, WGGN, etc.), as were all of the Youngstown stations.

I was flipping through the channels, some late night TV viewing and I noticed that HD Net Movies on channel 472 is missing. Did I miss something from TWC? Or the network? Are we losing another HD Tier channel? I hope not cuz I hate the idea of paying $6.95 a month for only three channels.

You can change the "TP ending to "MPG" on the MY-HD 120 card captures as I do to plop it into the Sony Vegas editor. Although I haven't captured anything in months and I don't know if all the different apps will play it. The PS-3 is supposed to play anything including streams.
JJK

There are numerous audio and video formats that the PS3 will not play natively, requiring server transcoding.

I was flipping through the channels, some late night TV viewing and I noticed that HD Net Movies on channel 472 is missing. Did I miss something from TWC? Or the network? Are we losing another HD Tier channel? I hope not cuz I hate the idea of paying $6.95 a month for only three channels.

Probably just an outage. I don't see TW dropping one without dropping the other. I'll bet it's up today.

Oh and I'm still getting Universal HD and you are correct it's suppose to be part of the package so I don't know why I'm slipping through the cracks. I'll bet it has to do with cable cards.

I must be living in a cave!
That doesn't come as news to any of us! :D

Thanks for all the ideas, folks. I did all the captures but I haven't been able to test them yet. At the moment, my 5yo is watching her Animaniacs DVD, so I know better than to interrupt that! But I'll get to test the captures later today. In addition, I'll try some of the experiments that NiteWatchman describes and post the results.

Inundated, I'm not sure what the best way would be to send me any clips. But there's definitely no need to send anything big. Thanks for the help.

The FCC changed the rules today and purposely made it a lot more painful for stations to kill analog. Some stations are backpedaling and not bothering, thus I now have to basically throw away my big list of stations killing analog...

- Trip

I'm confused. The bill states specifically:
SEC. 4. IMPLEMENTATION.

(a) Permissive Early Termination Under Existing Requirements- Nothing in this Act is intended to prevent a licensee of a television broadcast station from terminating the broadcasting of such station's analog television signal (and continuing to broadcast exclusively in the digital television service) prior to the date established by law under section 3002(b) of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 for termination of all licenses for full-power television stations in the analog television service (as amended by section 2 of this Act) so long as such prior termination is conducted in accordance with the Federal Communications Commission's requirements in effect on the date of enactment of this Act, including the flexible procedures established in the Matter of Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television (FCC 07-228, MB Docket No. 07-91, released December 31, 2007).

What is the FCC doing to make it "painful" for the stations to shut off analog "early" (formerly known as "on time")?

I'm confused. The bill states specifically:


What is the FCC doing to make it "painful" for the stations to shut off analog "early" (formerly known as "on time")?

so long as such prior termination is conducted in accordance with the Federal Communications Commission's requirements in effect on the date of enactment of this Act, including the flexible procedures established in the Matter of Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television (FCC 07-228, MB Docket No. 07-91, released December 31, 2007).

Trip will probably give you a solid answer, but I'll bet it lays somewhere in here. This looks like a big loop hole to me.