Ha! Yes. :)

I love nickdawg and his postings as he has a way with words. I must meet him in person some day.
BTW hook: isn't it your turn to host the Cleveland HDTV AVS-Forum bash this year???

No, I believe it's your turn. Or nickdawgs turn.;)

No, I believe it's your turn. Or nickdawgs turn.;)

.....and here I thought I was in for a nice Tivo demo. :(

.....and here I thought I was in for a nice Tivo demo. :(

Nope. This year it's an awful demo of dysfunctional SDV channels and missed/partial recordings at the Dawg house! ;) :D:D:D

Be sure to stay for game time: SA 8300 tossing contest and SA4250 stomping! :D:D:D:D:D :cool::cool:

Nope. This year it's an awful demo of dysfunctional SDV channels and missed/partial recordings at the Dawg house! ;) :D:D:D

Be sure to stay for game time: SA 8300 tossing contest and SA4250 stomping! :D:D:D:D:D :cool::cool:

Seriously nickdawg. I can understand you being p.o.'d at TW for the problems you're having but you can do something about it and you're choosing not to.

It's not your box, (I can't believe I'm saying that;)) and it's not SDV. It's out on the lines somewhere. And TW should have this fixed for you by now, it's BS that they haven't.

Or maybe you're just looking for an excuse to go to AT&T?

You've got the power. Balls in your court.

Seriously nickdawg. I can understand you being p.o.'d at TW for the problems you're having but you can do something about it and you're choosing not to.



Seriously hookbill...

Today I paid the bill. Asked the CSR at the bill payment center about it. She says there's a note on the account about the problem, and somebody is supposed to come out and work on the pole. It's up to them, whenever the pole person comes out. And even the CSR asked about the boxes, that might be the problem. Of course they're trained with a list of possible issues.

To amend your statement, the ball(s) may be in my 'court', but they still have a tight rope around them. :D

Seriously hookbill...

Today I paid the bill. Asked the CSR at the bill payment center about it. She says there's a note on the account about the problem, and somebody is supposed to come out and work on the pole. It's up to them, whenever the pole person comes out. And even the CSR asked about the boxes, that might be the problem. Of course they're trained with a list of possible issues.

To amend your statement, the ball(s) may be in my 'court', but they still have a tight rope around them. :D

Hey, it's your cable you can do what you want. I wouldn't put up with it. They should at least offer you a 20.00 credit for inconvenience.

I am going to say this as respectfully I can, and I promise that I am not trying to be a jerk in any way; this is just a suggestion, but....
Hookbill and nickdawg, no one here, myself included, is going to say that both of you don't add anything to this board, because you both do. However, have the two of you ever considered contacting each other personally (ie., not on a public forum) to hash out some of your issues? I check in here every day or two just to see if there is any pertinent news, and almost every time I pop in here I have to scroll through pages of what boils down to a one-on-one discussion between you guys. A lot of things you discuss are pertinent items that may interest other members her, but a lot of your discussion is also only applicable to the two of you. I am in no way suggesting that you stop posting here, but is there any way that you could pare down your posts so that people like me who pop in here on a semi-daily basis don't have to scroll through pages of back and forth banter just to catch up?

Hook, I sent you a PM to further discuss since I think you slightly missed my point (possibly my fault) and any further conversation has nothing to do with the board, although I am curious to see if other members here feel as I do.

Cleveland can never have a decent opening day. What a shame. :(

Wow. This place really came to a screeching halt. :eek:

Wow. This place really came to a screeching halt. :eek:

So what happened did they call the Tribe game?

I think they had a crawl on WKYC saying that when the game came back into play, they'd cut over out of NBC programming. So looks like they still plan to continue. Just have to wait on the weather to clear (which according to the radar here, should be very soon.)

So what happened did they call the Tribe game?

IDK. NBC HD is showing Howie Mandell right now. STO HD is showing Bruce Drennan and there's still a "Rain Delay" bug in the top corner. But I doubt any fans are still sitting out there in the rain by now, it's been 5 hours! :D

I even went and looked at their tweeter. There was nothing about the Indians. :sonsufed:

MLBnet is also debuting Sat. Nigh Baseball. First game Dodgers vs Arizona. Its in hd for some viewers.

This is one of the things I was looking forward to. We will get a wider variety of teams. And at the end of the month we will have it in hd on TW.

Looks like the game's back on at approx. 9:20. Works for me. :p

Looks like the game's back on at approx. 9:20. Works for me. :p

Am I the only one hoping it would start raining again, so it gets delayed four more hours? C'mon, I want Baseball at 2AM!! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

Am I the only one hoping it would start raining again, so it gets delayed four more hours? C'mon, I want Baseball at 2AM!! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

I'm about 10 minutes behind on my game which started at 9:30. Unless its a blow out ill be up a while. Don't forget about the free preview when your game ends.

PQ Looks good on dodger game on my little samsung.

I'm about 10 minutes behind on my game which started at 9:30. Unless its a blow out ill be up a while. Don't forget about the free preview when your game ends.

PQ Looks good on dodger game on my little samsung.

10 minutes behind? :confused::confused: On the Indians? Just wait a few minutes hookdog, or read the spoiler about the Indians. :D
You'll be cursing at the TV.

Those MLB channels do look surprisingly good. I wish ALL the SD Digital channels from 2 to infinity and beyond would look that good!

Is that the 'little sammy' from the tuning adapter picture? For a second, I almost thought you had a computer monitor hooked up to it. It looks that small. ;)

Its a 19 inch screen. I like it because it doesn't require any stretching for SD and yes tuner adapter and Tivo.

I have to give a HUGE thumbs up to WKYC for keeping the screen so clean tonight. It seems like the FOX/other network presentations have much more garbage on the screen. WKYC/STO keeps it nice and clean during the game. :)

No I meant no stretching for SD. I would never stretch HD.

No I meant no stretching for SD. I would never stretch HD.

But aren't all HDTVs "no stretching for SD"? They are for me! ;)
-----------------------------------------------
But back to this game, that now ended. This has to be one of the WORST performances I have seen in recent memory. What the ....? Did the team get shitfaced in the locker room during the rain delay? ;) Unbelievable! :mad::mad::mad:

I checked the "gray bar" on my other TV, it looks OK now. They must have fixed it even more during the day. :D
Someone at WEWS might actually be reading this forum! Last night everything was full screen on WEWS when I did the "gray bar" test. Let's hope it stays that way.

One of the best HDTV experiences I've had so far was the baseball game in which a cloud of midges defeating the Yankees' pitchers, thereby helping the Indians win. I don't recall what channel that was on, but the flies and the irritated players were crystal clear.:D

One of the best HDTV experiences I've had so far was the baseball game in which a cloud of midges defeating the Yankees' pitchers, thereby helping the Indians win. I don't recall what channel that was on, but the flies and the irritated players were crystal clear.:D

I'm thinking TBS, that was the first round of the playoffs.

Hook, I sent you a PM to further discuss since I think you slightly missed my point (possibly my fault) and any further conversation has nothing to do with the board, although I am curious to see if other members here feel as I do.

I wouldn't butter up to this guy. I got yelled at by him for asking a relevant question in this forum related to HDTV in the Cleveland Area. :rolleyes:

Your original point is well taken and I'm sure many others that lurk and post in this thread agree with you too. I wasn't going to say anything but after seeing his response to your polite post, I had to chime in.

I personally would like to see the Cleveland area postings be divided into an OTA thread and separate cable company threads as is done with other markets in this AVS section. I mainly come here for any OTA news and it's a real pain to have to wade through all the cable items to perhaps find an OTA tidbit. Can this be done?

Hey Hookbill, did the Adelphia areas start broadcasting in SDV yet? I remember the date was supposed to be Thursday, but I haven't seen anything else about it here.

I personally would like to see the Cleveland area postings be divided into an OTA thread and separate cable company threads as is done with other markets in this AVS section. I mainly come here for any OTA news and it's a real pain to have to wade through all the cable items to perhaps find an OTA tidbit. Can this be done?

I certainly understand how you feel. When OTA talk is going on for an extended period I don't have any interest. But cable seems to be the majority of people who come around hee and right now there is a lot going on.

Anyway I do need OTA folks to do comparisons with. Please feel free to post and post often. Same goes with satellite.

Hey Hookbill, did the Adelphia areas start broadcasting in SDV yet? I remember the date was supposed to be Thursday, but I haven't seen anything else about it here.
I'm not seeing seeing any definitive signs. When I look at diagnostic screen on tuner adapters. PCR pids and video pids are 0,

Maybe one possibility you can check is to jot down the tuned frequency for a certain channel like USA or Discovery and check it day to day and see if it changes at all? Worth a shot. If it does change, it's a definitive that you've been moved to SDV. If not, it's still a guessing/waiting game.

Vxhat I will do that.

Maybe one possibility you can check is to jot down the tuned frequency for a certain channel like USA or Discovery and check it day to day and see if it changes at all? Worth a shot. If it does change, it's a definitive that you've been moved to SDV. If not, it's still a guessing/waiting game.

That's a good idea. Also, if you're seeing numbers like 573.000 MHz, 597.000MHz or 585.000MHz, that means the channel should be SDV, as those are the SDV frequencies I have observed.

I personally would like to see the Cleveland area postings be divided into an OTA thread and separate cable company threads as is done with other markets in this AVS section. I mainly come here for any OTA news and it's a real pain to have to wade through all the cable items to perhaps find an OTA tidbit. Can this be done?

Use the forum search tools:
Search this Thread: OTA

Guys, I took a good hard look today at everything I could.

Maybe I'm missing something but the diagnostic screen on the TiVo Tuner Adapters is just as hard to read as the diagnostic screen on the 4250. If anything it goes to next page after page after page. But it's not the next page on the menu.

On the 4250 to get to the SDV Mini Carousal I scroll through a variety of screens to get there, usually I go backwards through the cable card menu. However with the tuner adapters I actually have a click down menu to bring up the topics. When I go to SDV Mini Carousal it is far more extensive as far as pages of material. At first I thought it simply was going through the next menu item but no, that's not the case.

Frequency isn't changing from channel to channel, either and it's not in the ranges nickdawg mentioned.

I can't tell. All signs are positive that the tuner adapter is hooked up, ready, willing and able to do it's thing. But I'm not a tech and while I can figure out or at least guess something, my best guess is I don't see anything indicating they ever started SDV. I have to base that off of the 4250 screen which hasn't changed at all either.

Maybe that's just the way it is with SARA, remember we are talking two different systems here. But if they started SDV on 4/9 then that's the smoothest transition I've ever seen of anything.

Ed, if you're looking in have you noticed anything in your area on your tuner adapter, or any other TiVo folks have any indicators of SDV? Matter of fact you don't have to be a TiVo user, anybody in ex Adephia SARA land see a difference?

Hooray for service outages.
I called TWC CS and they said they are loading a new thing onto the system and I assumed it was the Enabling of SDV could it be a easter miracle

Hooray for service outages.
I called TWC CS and they said they are loading a new thing onto the system and I assumed it was the Enabling of SDV could it be a easter miracle

No outages in my area, I gotta assume this is exclusive to Erie County. My understanding is they got lots to do over there to catch you guys up.

But then again we are both assuming arn't we?;)

there was a recording on when i called that said it affected areas to the south including mentor but last i checked Erie was north so once again assuming

No signs of SDV on my chunk of ex-Adelphia land yet either.

When Jeanie called me on Thu, I asked her if she knew when SDV would be turned on, and she was kind of vague, saying it would be done in different areas at different times. So more TWC hurry-up-and-wait...

I personally would like to see the Cleveland area postings be divided into an OTA thread and separate cable company threads as is done with other markets in this AVS section. I mainly come here for any OTA news and it's a real pain to have to wade through all the cable items to perhaps find an OTA tidbit. Can this be done?

I certainly understand how you feel. When OTA talk is going on for an extended period I don't have any interest. But cable seems to be the majority of people who come around hee and right now there is a lot going on.

Anyway I do need OTA folks to do comparisons with. Please feel free to post and post often. Same goes with satellite.

Use the forum search tools:
Search this Thread: OTA
rluyster - I get what you're saying. Now might be a good time to start a "Cleveland, OH - OTA" thread, as this has become, first and foremost, a "Cleveland, OH - TWC/Adelphia" thread.

No knock on the TWC gang intended. Good for them that they have used this thread to their advantage. If I ever switch to TWC, I'll be glad that they're here.

toby10, I tried your suggestion regarding searching for "OTA", but it doesn't really work in practice unless every OTA-related post has the word "OTA" in it, which is hardly the case.

IMHO, it's exponentially easier to subscribe to a new OTA thread, than try to pick through the main conversation for OTA tidbits here and there.

rluyster, if you create "Cleveland, OH - OTA", I'll definitely subscribe.

......toby10, I tried your suggestion regarding searching for "OTA", but it doesn't really work in practice unless every OTA-related post has the word "OTA" in it, which is hardly the case.

IMHO, it's exponentially easier to subscribe to a new OTA thread, than try to pick through the main conversation for OTA tidbits here and there.......

Indeed. I wasn't implying it was the perfect solution, only a suggestion based on the reality of using this thread while weeding out the OP's unwanted thread posts. :)

rluyster - I get what you're saying. Now might be a good time to start a "Cleveland, OH - OTA" thread, as this has become, first and foremost, a "Cleveland, OH - TWC/Adelphia" thread.

No knock on the TWC gang intended. Good for them that they have used this thread to their advantage. If I ever switch to TWC, I'll be glad that they're here.

toby10, I tried your suggestion regarding searching for "OTA", but it doesn't really work in practice unless every OTA-related post has the word "OTA" in it, which is hardly the case.

IMHO, it's exponentially easier to subscribe to a new OTA thread, than try to pick through the main conversation for OTA tidbits here and there.

rluyster, if you create "Cleveland, OH - OTA", I'll definitely subscribe.

I don't really want to see OTA people leave. Without a doubt, we hog the thread but as I said in the quote there is just a lot going on right now with the transition to SDV, etc.

If you guys do start another thread I hope you'll at least check in once in a while because we do need your help from time to time. But I certainly understand - all this stuff we talk about would be of no interest to you.

Well the OTA folder would be nice but I believe it is up to the AVS management. They do appear however to have gobs of harddrive space available. Who knows they might just do that for all the threads.
JJK

IDK, I like how things are now. Even though I get a bit bored with OTA talk at times, sometimes it is important to what's happening at TWC, as in the case of the 'black line' on the bottom of the screen. It was nice to have a comparison between cabel, OTA, satellite about that problem.

Hi All. I just got my new antennas hooked up. I am 50 - 60 miles from the cleveland stations and am getting a great signal on all the uhf channels. However, I can't get squat out of the vhf. WKYC (3 - NBC) gets nothing and WOIO (10 - CBS) gets a bit of signal but not enough to view. WKYC moves to UHF in June so I am hoping that fixes that problem. However WOIO is moving from 19 to 10. I can get a snowy analog WOIO signal on 19 now. My43 WUAB is supposedly on the same tower and I get a signal strength of 70 and a great picture on that station. Nothing on WOIO - 10 though. Anybody have some recommendations about how to pull in WOIO - 10? New equipment is ok.

Winegard HD 5030 VHF Antenna
Antennas Direct 91XG UHF
ChannelMaster 7777 Pre-Amp
2 - Perfect Vision PVDP2 Diplexer Dual Satellite Dish TV Antenna Combiners
TIVO HD

Thanks in advance everyone.

Are you south around Canton (my hometown)? If so, back in the '60's we had to throw up the 30 foot tower with an antenna rotor. Afterward we got nearly everything clear, although snow storms would screw up some channels. If you're east or west of Cleveland, probably the same answer will work.

Hooray for service outages.
I called TWC CS and they said they are loading a new thing onto the system and I assumed it was the Enabling of SDV could it be a easter miracle
FYI for you and ErieMarty-- I checked what was now available in HD via QAM on the City TWC system on my father-in-law's set and all of the Cleveland market HD stations that were on there as late as 6-8 weeks ago are now gone. All I could find "in the clear" are 89.1 (WQLN); 89.2 (WSEE); 99.1 (WICU); 99.2 (WFXP); 104.1 (WJET). WICU is on a subchannel of WFXP or WJET..(I can't remember which) so there is no NBC HD available in Erie yet! And Friday night, someone at WSEE was "asleep at the switch" and didn't switch CBS programming to HD until Numbers was about 2/3 done! And none of the Erie locals have any HD studio capability. We tend to forget how far along we are here in the Cleveland market!

FYI for you and ErieMarty-- I checked what was now available in HD via QAM on the City TWC system on my father-in-law's set and all of the Cleveland market HD stations that were on there as late as 6-8 weeks ago are now gone. All I could find "in the clear" are 89.1 (WQLN); 89.2 (WSEE); 99.1 (WICU); 99.2 (WFXP); 104.1 (WJET). WICU is on a subchannel of WFXP or WJET..(I can't remember which) so there is no NBC HD available in Erie yet! And Friday night, someone at WSEE was "asleep at the switch" and didn't switch CBS programming to HD until Numbers was about 2/3 done! And none of the Erie locals have any HD studio capability. We tend to forget how far along we are here in the Cleveland market!

It sure seems like the Erie area gets the TW shaft quite a bit. The good news is SDV won't affect local stations so they should stay clear in QAM but man that is really limiting people at this point.

The no NBC in clear in QAM doesn't make sense. If they are carrying an NBC station it should be available. Then again IIRC my TiVo couldn't find WJW in HD before I got cable cards. Just to clarify that's using strictly OTA cable.

It sure seems like the Erie area gets the TW shaft quite a bit. The good news is SDV won't affect local stations so they should stay clear in QAM but man that is really limiting people at this point.

The no NBC in clear in QAM doesn't make sense. If they are carrying an NBC station it should be available. Then again IIRC my TiVo couldn't find WJW in HD before I got cable cards. Just to clarify that's using strictly OTA cable.

We do get NBC Channel 12 HD in the clear in QAM in Erie - it's on 99.1.

This will come of interest to you, from OMW (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/04/picking-back-up.html):

AS EXPLAINED IN IDEASTREAM'S REQUEST FOR ALTERNATIVE BUILDOUT, WVIZ'S FINAL AUTHORIZED DTV FACILITY IS TO BE LOCATED ON A NEW TOWER TO BE SHARED WITH STATION WKYC-DT. THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT TOWER HAD BEEN UNEXPECTEDLY DELAYED (SEE, STA REQUEST OF WKYC-TV, INC., FCC FILE NO. BDSTA-20081201AWR AND MONTHLY FCC FORM 387 UPDATES FILED BY WKYC-TV, INC.). WHILE COMPLETION OF A FINAL FACILITY TO MEET A FEBRUARY 17, 2009 DEADLINE WAS NOT POSSIBLE, IDEASTREAM UNDERSTANDS FROM WKYC-TV, INC. THAT THE NEW TOWER WILL BE COMPLETED WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE NEW JUNE 12, 2009 DEADLINE.

According to the report the tower probably won't light up until 6/12.

This will come of interest to you, from OMW (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/04/picking-back-up.html):

AS EXPLAINED IN IDEASTREAM'S REQUEST FOR ALTERNATIVE BUILDOUT, WVIZ'S FINAL AUTHORIZED DTV FACILITY IS TO BE LOCATED ON A NEW TOWER TO BE SHARED WITH STATION WKYC-DT. THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT TOWER HAD BEEN UNEXPECTEDLY DELAYED (SEE, STA REQUEST OF WKYC-TV, INC., FCC FILE NO. BDSTA-20081201AWR AND MONTHLY FCC FORM 387 UPDATES FILED BY WKYC-TV, INC.). WHILE COMPLETION OF A FINAL FACILITY TO MEET A FEBRUARY 17, 2009 DEADLINE WAS NOT POSSIBLE, IDEASTREAM UNDERSTANDS FROM WKYC-TV, INC. THAT THE NEW TOWER WILL BE COMPLETED WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE NEW JUNE 12, 2009 DEADLINE.

According to the report the tower probably won't light up until 6/12.

Awesome. Thanks hook. :)

I was just assuming another delay, so this is great news. I have noticed a much more consistent WVIZ OTA signal lately. Might just be coincidental and/or atmospheric, or maybe they are testing some boosted signal strategies for the eventual DTV tower transition, who knows. :confused:

On that same OMW report they show the list of next upcoming channels, but they are indicating that these channels do not require basic digital except one. This is incorrect of course unless you've got QAM in the clear. I have emailed them about this.

On that same OMW report they show the list of next upcoming channels, but they are indicating that these channels do not require basic digital except one. This is incorrect of course unless you've got QAM in the clear. I have emailed them about this.

Why? What's not to understand about that? If you're freeloading out of the 'clear' local channels, you do not get any of the non-broadcast HD channels already. So why would one assume they would be getting the new channels?

Wait, I spoke too soon. Any moment now, a certain Clever Trousers will be here telling me how he's entitled to USA HD. ;)

What "Digital Basic" means is NOT having a box or not. It means you subscribe to the Digital Basic Tier for $5 a month. (Refer to your channel lineup card, they are in red) The Digital Basic Tier includes channels like ESPNU and MLB channel. So it follows that you would have to subscribe to the SD versions to get the HD versions. And the other channels like TLC, Animal, Bravo would require a box to get, since you need a box to get ESPN, TNT, etc.

I'm still pissed they're adding GOLF. Hey Steve-O, when are we getting Paint Drying HD? Or Flies Reproducing HD? :rolleyes:

I see on Ohio Media Watch that WKYC channel 3's tower is finally going up.This will also be the home of channel 25

What "Digital Basic" means is NOT having a box or not. It means you subscribe to the Digital Basic Tier for $5 a month. (Refer to your channel lineup card, they are in red) The Digital Basic Tier includes channels like ESPNU and MLB channel. So it follows that you would have to subscribe to the SD versions to get the HD versions. And the other channels like TLC, Animal, Bravo would require a box to get, since you need a box to get ESPN, TNT, etc.

I'm still pissed they're adding GOLF. Hey Steve-O, when are we getting Paint Drying HD? Or Flies Reproducing HD? :rolleyes:
No your wrong. That may be in your area but over here we have Basic, and EXPANDED Basic which handles all the non digital channels. Remember we have analog channels. So that gives you all the channels in the first 100.

TW itself says that it's "Free HD" is available with digital cable. It doesn't say anything about Expanded Basic which is not digital. Go to the website yourself. http://www.timewarnercable.com/customerservice/clu/clu.ashx

I think it's different in the your area.

No your wrong. That may be in your area but over here we have Basic, and EXPANDED Basic which handles all the non digital channels. Remember we have analog channels. So that gives you all the channels in the first 100.

TW itself says that it's "Free HD" is available with digital cable. It doesn't say anything about Expanded Basic which is not digital. Go to the website yourself. http://www.timewarnercable.com/customerservice/clu/clu.ashx

I think it's different in the your area.

We have the same thing, remember, they standardized the lineups/packages.

Basic, Expanded Basic, Digital, Extra Tiers(Sports, Movie, Choice).

Basic + Expanded Basic covers what used to be under 100 here too.

However, even though TNT, ESPN, FOOD, A&E always used to be EXPANDED BASIC, a box is always required to get those channels in HIGH DEFINITION.

I see on Ohio Media Watch that WKYC channel 3's tower is finally going up.This will also be the home of channel 25
You mean WVIZ will actually be available... this summer... and not in the sense that is was going to be available "this summer" for the past 5 summers?! I can't wait to be able to get WKYC and WVIZ OTA. I might be able to lessen my indoor antenna's profile once the transition occurs. That'd be nice. It is quite the eye sore right now.

I have a question about this free HD thing since you guys brought it up, as I am still toying with the idea of a tivo series 3, if I get that and have the baisc cable (all analog) will I get my locals plus STO and FSN hd through time warner through the tivo (oh and espn)? I know I will need a cable card, but I am really looking to make some cutbacks as two kids is getting a little harder on the budget!

I have a question about this free HD thing since you guys brought it up, as I am still toying with the idea of a tivo series 3, if I get that and have the baisc cable (all analog) will I get my locals plus STO and FSN hd through time warner through the tivo (oh and espn)? I know I will need a cable card, but I am really looking to make some cutbacks as two kids is getting a little harder on the budget!

The only free HD via cable is usually through the use of a QAM tuner which will allow you to see any/all ch's the cable co has put out "in the clear". I believe they are mandated to put locals on clear QAM and this usually involves HD locals.

I don't think you will get any HD ch's for free via cable, Tivo or not, unless you have this QAM tuner, and then only the locals. Check your TV as it may have a QAM tuner (and I don't think any Tivo's include any QAM tuners).

I have a question about this free HD thing since you guys brought it up, as I am still toying with the idea of a tivo series 3, if I get that and have the baisc cable (all analog) will I get my locals plus STO and FSN hd through time warner through the tivo (oh and espn)? I know I will need a cable card, but I am really looking to make some cutbacks as two kids is getting a little harder on the budget!

If you're looking at saving cash TiVo is not the way to go. First, the cable cards are not for analog television. They are for digital only, and as Toby10 points out you would get qam channels only with what you want to purchase. And with that you wouldn't even get guide data for recording making your S3 fairly useless.

The only way to do it would be purchase digital cable, the cable card (s) TiVo service (12.95 per month). Definitely nothing you'd want to buy if you're on a budget, it's really a luxury.

I have a question about this free HD thing since you guys brought it up, as I am still toying with the idea of a tivo series 3, if I get that and have the baisc cable (all analog) will I get my locals plus STO and FSN hd through time warner through the tivo (oh and espn)? I know I will need a cable card, but I am really looking to make some cutbacks as two kids is getting a little harder on the budget!

You'd be better off getting a TWC box. You'll get access to all the new HD channels plus the existing analog channels in digital. For $7.35 a month. No cable card fee, no Tivo service fee. :p

You'd be better off getting a TWC box. You'll get access to all the new HD channels plus the existing analog channels in digital. For $7.35 a month. No cable card fee, no Tivo service fee. :p

But wouldn't he need to buy TWC's basic HD service, in addition to the basic Digital Tier to get anything in HD? Sounds to me like he wants to get basic cable and (somehow) get HD ch's with it.

I'm not on a TWC system, so maybe TWC does it differently, I dunno. But most cable co's insist you have (and pay for) a Digital Tier then pay more for any HD ch's as a "premium". Unless, as I said prior, you have a QAM tuner and just want the locals in HD (with no guide nor program data).

You'd be better off getting a TWC box. You'll get access to all the new HD channels plus the existing analog channels in digital. For $7.35 a month. No cable card fee, no Tivo service fee. :p

In my TWC area (NE Ohio), it's $7.35 for the SA8300HD box, extra for the remote, and $7 MORE per month for the DVR feature.

In my TWC area (NE Ohio), it's $7.35 for the SA8300HD box, extra for the remote, and $7 MORE per month for the DVR feature.

Yeah, nickdawg conveniently left out that part. Cable cards are 5.00 for 2, and with an M Card it's only 2.50 but STILL you have to pay for TiVo service which is higher IF you pay monthly. If the poster could afford it in the long run he would actually save money with TiVo but you would have to take a multi year subscription or lifetime.

And before you post it nickdawg, we all know how you feel about lifetime service and you really don't understand it all that well. However I would say DO NOT purchase lifetime with a TiVo S3.

Edit: With a TiVo S3 the poster would HAVE to purchase two cable cards. Something to think about.

In my TWC area (NE Ohio), it's $7.35 for the SA8300HD box, extra for the remote, and $7 MORE per month for the DVR feature.

No. I was talking about just the box. That's where it starts. IF you want DVR, that costs extra. Still less than Tivo and no equipment to buy.

so really the cheapest would be 85 a month for internet and cable (the deal they are running now) which is fine as my two tvs have qam tuners and that price includes a dvr. looks like tivo might be out :(

so really the cheapest would be 85 a month for internet and cable (the deal they are running now) which is fine as my two tvs have qam tuners and that price includes a dvr. looks like tivo might be out :(
That sounds very cheap to me. For some reason I'm thinking $100.00. I could be wrong.

No. I was talking about just the box. That's where it starts. IF you want DVR, that costs extra. Still less than Tivo and no equipment to buy.

Right, I was mentioning the added cost for DVR because the IMO it doesn't make sense to compare its cost to the Tivo box unless you are including the cost of DVR service, which of course is the heart of the Tivo system.

BTW, TWC originally gave me the SA8300HD box when I got an HD set, and I opted out of the DVR service at that time. But some time last year, they sent me a letter saying that either I had to return the box and get an HD box that didn't have the DVR feature that was turned off and I hadn't been paying for, or else they would start charging me for the DVR service whether or not I wanted it turned on! I had no argument with trading boxes until I found out that (1) the other box had no HDMI connections and (2) they didn't have any of the other boxes to give me. So I did nothing, kept my current box, and they haven't started charging me for the DVR service (which remains turned off).

SA4250 STB has HDMI. I think its a good box.

Ed, if you're looking in have you noticed anything in your area on your tuner adapter, or any other TiVo folks have any indicators of SDV? Matter of fact you don't have to be a TiVo user, anybody in ex Adephia SARA land see a difference?

No, I haven't seen any difference here either. But again, wouldn't know what I was looking for...

That sounds very cheap to me. For some reason I'm thinking $100.00. I could be wrong.

I think I would settle in there with tax, its just hard to pay about 135 for directv and 35 for internet when time warner would bundle them and save me a bit of money.

SA4250 STB has HDMI. I think its a good box.Whatever they "offered me," they told me when I asked that there was no HDMI and that I would have to go on a waiting list for it while they charged me the $7 a month for DVR service that wasn't wanted and wasn't turned on. Then they didn't. I'm standing pat...

I think I would settle in there with tax, its just hard to pay about 135 for directv and 35 for internet when time warner would bundle them and save me a bit of money.

I'm guessing the 135 mo for sat included a lot more ch's than the TWC pkg you are comparing it too.

Whatever they "offered me," they told me when I asked that there was no HDMI and that I would have to go on a waiting list for it while they charged me the $7 a month for DVR service that wasn't wanted and wasn't turned on. Then they didn't. I'm standing pat...

The replacement box they were offering in trade had no HDMI port? Or it had an HDMI port that was not activated?
The Component Video output from either HD box would render the same PQ.
HDMI is certainly convenient (one cable for audio and video) but offers no advantage in audio and video playback in regards to cable, sat, or ota use.

We do get NBC Channel 12 HD in the clear in QAM in Erie - it's on 99.1.
That's what I would have thought. But I never saw any HD programming on 99.1 at my in-laws nor on the digital offerings at the Sheraton Bayfront where they had all the local HD offerings plus ESPN, ESPN2, Discovery, HDNet and Showtime. But no program on WICU-DT ever showed up in HD.

I'm guessing the 135 mo for sat included a lot more ch's than the TWC pkg you are comparing it too.From what I can tell, that includes just about every channel, all movie Premiums, all HD channels, all the fees included. The only channels it doesn't include would be the adult ones and Setanta. And that price is excluding the 12 month rebates, the 3 month rebates, etc...

Thing I've always despised about Time Warner... you haven't a clue what you are actually signing up for and they don't list the taxes and fees. So not only are you in the dark about what channels you'll get, you are also in the dark about the actual cost, both now and after 12 months!

OK, so I darken the door of the Cleveland thread for a good reason.

Time Warner Cable has thrown me a curveball.

They apparently had a major maintenance window last night, and at least some of it was right here on the section of TWC that serves me.

My SA8000HD made it through fine (for the most part), but the system upgrade turned both of my old SD SA3100 boxes into bricks. The boxes say that they're not authorized for service, show four dashes, and TWC reps can't activate them remotely. This, despite numerous reboots (both at their direction, and on my own).

The TWC rep I talked with today sent the "hit" down, which caused the boxes to reboot, but back into the "not authorized" screen.

I'm gonna probably take the boxes in (can you take old Adelphia boxes into legacy TWC centers these days? I don't feel like driving up to Strongsville...). My gut feeling tells me that the 3100 got taken out by the new update.

As I said, the SA8000HD is fine, except for something that is apparently a sign that SDV has come to our part of the ex-Adelphia/TWC universe.

As had been reported by others in SDV land earlier, STOHD is now pixellating to beat the band (much like the video that was posted here). The problem affects no other HD channels (or SD channels), including the new ones added recently. Just STOHD.

I'm wondering if I should also swap out my SA8000HD, which I'm reluctant to do because A) it works otherwise and B) I have some recordings on there I'd like to keep, though I could live without them if I had to do so. (I have no easy way to pull them off.)

From what I remember reading here, I'm pretty sure that the STOHD problem isn't based on the box itself, and I presume it'll be fixed at some point.

I wondered if TWC did something overnight in my former Adelphia area. My SA8300HD came up fine this morning but it started on channel 1 not channel 23 as it normally does.

Well this morning my TW service went into "not authorized" status. So I called and yes apparently there was some sort of system upgrade that happened and the rep said that hits were needed to be sent out to "a lot" of customers this morning. So anyway everything is back up and running except I can't get any of the SDV channels on the TiVo and the tuning adapter's green light is blinking. She set up a service call for later this week, but I hope with some tinkering I can correct it myself.

I did point blank ask her if this has anything to do with SDV being rolled out and she said "no", but I'm sure that doesn't mean anything...

Hook, how are things with you this morning?:rolleyes:

From what I can tell, that includes just about every channel, all movie Premiums, all HD channels, all the fees included. The only channels it doesn't include would be the adult ones and Setanta. And that price is excluding the 12 month rebates, the 3 month rebates, etc...

Thing I've always despised about Time Warner... you haven't a clue what you are actually signing up for and they don't list the taxes and fees. So not only are you in the dark about what channels you'll get, you are also in the dark about the actual cost, both now and after 12 months!

It seems odd there would be such a price difference between sat and cable, assuming they are offering similar ch lineups and/or # of ch's. :confused:

Doesn't TWC offer a simple chart of ch's per pkg? I've never looked for TWC lineups but I know my WOW Cable has a nice, simple, single page layout of what ch's you get per pkg. No confusion or ambiguity as to what you will get for $$$.

Hi All. I just got my new antennas hooked up. I am 50 - 60 miles from the cleveland stations and am getting a great signal on all the uhf channels. However, I can't get squat out of the vhf. WKYC (3 - NBC) gets nothing and WOIO (10 - CBS) gets a bit of signal but not enough to view. WKYC moves to UHF in June so I am hoping that fixes that problem. However WOIO is moving from 19 to 10. I can get a snowy analog WOIO signal on 19 now. My43 WUAB is supposedly on the same tower and I get a signal strength of 70 and a great picture on that station. Nothing on WOIO - 10 though. Anybody have some recommendations about how to pull in WOIO - 10? New equipment is ok.

Winegard HD 5030 VHF Antenna
Antennas Direct 91XG UHF
ChannelMaster 7777 Pre-Amp
2 - Perfect Vision PVDP2 Diplexer Dual Satellite Dish TV Antenna Combiners
TIVO HD

Thanks in advance everyone.

I'd replace the HD 5030 with a Winegard YA-1713 or a Funke psp.1922, preferably a psp.1922. The gentleman that was selling psp.1922s is sold out, but you may find someone who is willing to sell one if you post in the many OTA forums that are currently on the net. The YA-1713 provides higher gain on channels 7-13 than the HD 5030. Make sure you mount the 91XG at least 4' (preferably 5') above the YA-1713. I'd get rid of the diplexer and run a separate RG6 cable from the antenna system to the television(s). You'll also want to ensure that the 7777's built in FM trap is engaged.

WOIO-DT has been broadcasting in digital on channel 10 and will continue to do so after the transition. WOIO-DT has applied to the FCC to increase its power from 3.5 kW ERP to 10.3 kW ERP post transition. It remains to be seen whether it will receive permission to increase its power. I'm 55 miles from WOIO-DT's transmitter and receive it 24/7 with a YA-1713. Keep in mind, however, that I'm on high ground and have a 55' tower. You'll also want to mount your antenna system as high as possible. WJW is moving its digital signal from channel 31 to channel 8 on June 12th. You should receive WKYC-DT when it moves to channel 17. There is too much electrical interference on channel 2 to receive WKYC-DT over 50 miles from the transmitter.

OK, so I darken the door of the Cleveland thread for a good reason.

Time Warner Cable has thrown me a curveball.

They apparently had a major maintenance window last night, and at least some of it was right here on the section of TWC that serves me.

My SA8000HD made it through fine (for the most part), but the system upgrade turned both of my old SD SA3100 boxes into bricks. The boxes say that they're not authorized for service, show four dashes, and TWC reps can't activate them remotely. This, despite numerous reboots (both at their direction, and on my own).

The TWC rep I talked with today sent the "hit" down, which caused the boxes to reboot, but back into the "not authorized" screen.

I'm gonna probably take the boxes in (can you take old Adelphia boxes into legacy TWC centers these days? I don't feel like driving up to Strongsville...). My gut feeling tells me that the 3100 got taken out by the new update.

As I said, the SA8000HD is fine, except for something that is apparently a sign that SDV has come to our part of the ex-Adelphia/TWC universe.

As had been reported by others in SDV land earlier, STOHD is now pixellating to beat the band (much like the video that was posted here). The problem affects no other HD channels (or SD channels), including the new ones added recently. Just STOHD.

I'm wondering if I should also swap out my SA8000HD, which I'm reluctant to do because A) it works otherwise and B) I have some recordings on there I'd like to keep, though I could live without them if I had to do so. (I have no easy way to pull them off.)

From what I remember reading here, I'm pretty sure that the STOHD problem isn't based on the box itself, and I presume it'll be fixed at some point.

Pull up the Diagnostic screen on the 8000HD. Look for the page that has the SDV information and see if anything is activated or there are any numbers. Hookbill has said this screen always says "no" and there are zeros. Also, with STO HD as the tuned channel, find something similar to my "Current Service Info" screen that shows information about the tuned channel to see if the names are different. If it is SDV, it should say something like "STO HD SDV" as the channel name. Also, you can check by frequency. If it's SDV, it should be 573.00MHz, 597.000MHz or 585.000MHz.

About swapping the boxes, in the long run you'll be happier with the newer boxes. If/when the Adelphia areas get Navigator, the ODN (for new HDC boxes) is far superior to the MDN (for old boxes like 8000HD, 3100HD, etc).

The "upgrade" apparently involves VOD. The channel 1 VOD portal is now gone on the sara boxes and the individual VOD channels are now in the 500's (aligning with the rest of Time Warner land). So maybe this didn't have anything to do with SDV...:confused:

It seems odd there would be such a price difference between sat and cable, assuming they are offering similar ch lineups and/or # of ch's. :confused:

Doesn't TWC offer a simple chart of ch's per pkg? I've never looked for TWC lineups but I know my WOW Cable has a nice, simple, single page layout of what ch's you get per pkg. No confusion or ambiguity as to what you will get for $$$.I've never been able to find a chart like that for TWC. They say you'll get over 200 digital channels, but never really expand beyond that, from what I can tell. And your doomed if you try to find out how much it'll be after 12 months pass.

Dish Network and Directv have great online tools to not only choose what you want, but to see exactly how much it'll cost now and once the introductory savings go away.

I can confirm that SDV has come to at least part of the former Adelphia/Cleveland universe, and on a SARA box, no less. And not just because of the pixellation on some HD channels.

Unlike the last time I checked my SA8000HD's diagnostic screen, the three SDV pages are lit up, activated and are no longer filled with zeroes. I'll try to post a screen shot later tonight. But it's quite clear that SDV has made it here, at least in MY portion of the former Adelphia universe.

It may not have made it past here (Bath/Copley/Northampton/western Summit County). I now have the new VOD single channels (500s, etc.). I don't believe other areas got that last night, if the message on the TWC CS line was accurate...it specifically mentioned upgrades in Bath, which is the headend that serves where I am.

As for the SD boxes, I took 'em both back to Midway Plaza, was given one identical SA3100 box in replacement, and the problem probably wasn't the boxes themselves. (I came in with two and left with one on purpose - one box has been sitting unused for about a year here.)

Also, you can check by frequency. If it's SDV, it should be 573.00MHz, 597.000MHz or 585.000MHz.

I did notice one of the screens said 585.000MHz.

The "upgrade" apparently involves VOD. The channel 1 VOD portal is now gone on the sara boxes and the individual VOD channels are now in the 500's (aligning with the rest of Time Warner land). So maybe this didn't have anything to do with SDV...:confused:

Ed, you're in the affected area. I can't remember if have an HD box or not... if you do, can you run through each of the channels and see if you're getting any pixellated or non-working channels in the 400s?

USAHD now doesn't work at all for me...it actually has a new screen saying "Tuning to USAHD", then tells me it failed. Other channels have pixellation, and a few of them work just fine.

The replacement box they were offering in trade had no HDMI port? Or it had an HDMI port that was not activated?
The Component Video output from either HD box would render the same PQ.
HDMI is certainly convenient (one cable for audio and video) but offers no advantage in audio and video playback in regards to cable, sat, or ota use. They told me it had no HDMI port. On my TV, I was getting a less sharp pic from component video input than I was from HDMI. This was true for video signals from my 8300HD and from my Denon 3910 DVD player. PQ is often the same from HDMI and component, but not always--other people have reported this, too.

So once I found out that the replacement they were offering (which they didn't even have in stock) had "no HDMI" (their words), I was not interested. Also, on my end of the cable, "no HDMI" and "HMDI port that was not activated" are equivalent, of course.

Well this morning my TW service went into "not authorized" status. So I called and yes apparently there was some sort of system upgrade that happened and the rep said that hits were needed to be sent out to "a lot" of customers this morning. So anyway everything is back up and running except I can't get any of the SDV channels on the TiVo and the tuning adapter's green light is blinking. She set up a service call for later this week, but I hope with some tinkering I can correct it myself.

I did point blank ask her if this has anything to do with SDV being rolled out and she said "no", but I'm sure that doesn't mean anything...

Hook, how are things with you this morning?:rolleyes:

Nothing changed here. I've been busy doing all kinds of stuff today so I was surprised to see all the action.

Checked 4250 box, no changes still starts on 23. No changes on information on SDV carousel.

No SDV here. Yet.

Ed, you're in the affected area. I can't remember if have an HD box or not... if you do, can you run through each of the channels and see if you're getting any pixellated or non-working channels in the 400s?

USAHD now doesn't work at all for me...it actually has a new screen saying "Tuning to USAHD", then tells me it failed. Other channels have pixellation, and a few of them work just fine.

Ed has a TiVo HD of some sort with tuner adapter.

And it's nice to see you again, sorry you're having problems. I shudder to think about it maybe tonight it will hit me.

Has anyone called customer service and directly asked what the flock is going on?

The Component Video output from either HD box would render the same PQ.
HDMI is certainly convenient (one cable for audio and video) but offers no advantage in audio and video playback in regards to cable, sat, or ota use.

PQ is debatable, I've heard people say HDMI does make a difference and it would seem like having one digital source would work better then 3 component sources.

I can't see the difference but I use HDMI on my TiVo HD converted to DVI.

And just so I'm clear, the HDMI on the SA 4250 does indeed work.

I did notice one of the screens said 585.000MHz.

Was the 585.000MHz channel the one having problems?

Ed, you're in the affected area. I can't remember if have an HD box or not... if you do, can you run through each of the channels and see if you're getting any pixellated or non-working channels in the 400s?

USAHD now doesn't work at all for me...it actually has a new screen saying "Tuning to USAHD", then tells me it failed. Other channels have pixellation, and a few of them work just fine.

It sounds like USA HD is now on SDV. On ODN Navigator, there is something that says "Channel not available" and "Press A to try again". This happens when there is a problem with tuning a SDV channel. Which channels are pixellated? The new HD channels: 443, 449, 456, 469, 476? It almost sounds like you have the same issue I'm seeing.

Nothing changed here. I've been busy doing all kinds of stuff today so I was surprised to see all the action.

Checked 4250 box, no changes still starts on 23. No changes on information on SDV carousel.

No SDV here. Yet.

Did you try rebooting the box? Since it is a "C" box, it might need to be 'helped' along. ;)

Did you try rebooting the box? Since it is a "C" box, it might need to be 'helped' along. ;)

Exactly what I was thinking, the blinking light is an indicator that the tuner adapter is not connected. I would unplug the tuner adapter, plug it back in and see if you get a solid green signal. If not I would try a reboot.

Exactly what I was thinking, the blinking light is an indicator that the tuner adapter is not connected. I would unplug the tuner adapter, plug it back in and see if you get a solid green signal. If not I would try a reboot.

Try to reboot your 4250HDC. Maybe the changes are "waiting" on the line and once it resets and refreshes, the changes will appear.

Ed, you're in the affected area. I can't remember if have an HD box or not... if you do, can you run through each of the channels and see if you're getting any pixellated or non-working channels in the 400s?

USAHD now doesn't work at all for me...it actually has a new screen saying "Tuning to USAHD", then tells me it failed. Other channels have pixellation, and a few of them work just fine.

Yes I'm experiencing heavy pixelization on several channels in the 400's on the 8300HD and like you said others are just fine. The local HD's seem to be fine. On the TiVo box, HD channels 430 and above are blank and some of those have a TiVo message saying channel not available. Here we go again...:rolleyes:

The tuning adapter now has a solid green light though...:confused:

Yes I'm experiencing heavy pixelization on several channels in the 400's on the 8300HD and like you said others are just fine. The local HD's seem to be fine. On the TiVo box, HD channels 430 and above are blank and some of those have a TiVo message saying channel not available. Here we go again...:rolleyes:

The tuning adapter now has a solid green light though...:confused:

Wow, it sounds like SDV has F'ed up the Adelphia areas worse than my TV. :eek:

Yes I'm experiencing heavy pixelization on several channels in the 400's on the 8300HD and like you said others are just fine. The local HD's seem to be fine. On the TiVo box, HD channels 430 and above are blank and some of those have a TiVo message saying channel not available. Here we go again...:rolleyes:

The tuning adapter now has a solid green light though...:confused:

Ed you probably need to have them send you a hit and you'll be fine

Can you give us the numbers of the channels not working in the 400s? If it is happening on an 8300, it's gonna take more than a 'hit' for the cable card, as the cable cards in TWC's own boxes usually behave better. Plus Inundated has a similar problem.

Psssst! You might want to look into 585.000MHz (if you're reading, TWC!)

I'm too tired to argue with you but if there s a major problem I can sum it up in one word: SARA:)

I hope the June 20-something TWC HD additions will include MSNBC HD. Since we're getting CNBC HD on April 29, CNN HD and Fixed Noise HD on May 26, we better be seeing MSNBC HD once it launches in June.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/04/msnbc_to_go_hd_on_june_29.php

I'm too tired to argue with you but if there s a major problem I can sum it up in one word: SARA:)

Uhhhh, no. I'm having a very similar problem to Inundated, and I have Navigator. ;)

I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure the Problem Children HD channels were showing up as 585.0000 on the diagnostic screen.

Ed, I'm glad to hear you are in the same boat...not because I want you to sink :) But you're on the same part of the old Adelphia system that I am. Bath feeds all of western Summit County and far eastern Medina County (Bath/Copley/Northampton, etc.).

I've personally been a customer of this system three times over the years - not long after Cablevision first built it out that far south of Cleveland, in Medina County's Sharon Township,..then when I moved back here in 2003, I had it as the former Adelphia in the Montrose area (Copley Twp. near 18 and 77/21)...and here, now, in the former Northampton Township.

All three areas are fed out of Bath, and always have been. (When I had Adelphia in Montrose, the Weather Channel's local forecasts showed Bath! They actually changed that to Akron somewhere along the way.)

Anyway, I'm glad Ed is reporting the problem. He lives nowhere near me, but he's on the same system, so it would presumably be something they have to fix. And nickdawg, I didn't know you were STILL having the problem.

TWC has to fix SDV. :D

hookbill, you don't have it yet because it sounds like they are doing it node by node, and so far, it sounds like Bath is the only one "lit up" for SDV in the old Adelphia region.

I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure the Problem Children HD channels were showing up as 585.0000 on the diagnostic screen.

Ed, I'm glad to hear you are in the same boat...not because I want you to sink :) But you're on the same part of the old Adelphia system that I am. Bath feeds all of western Summit County and far eastern Medina County (Bath/Copley/Northampton, etc.).

I've personally been a customer of this system three times over the years - not long after Cablevision first built it out that far south of Cleveland, in Medina County's Sharon Township,..then when I moved back here in 2003, I had it as the former Adelphia in the Montrose area (Copley Twp. near 18 and 77/21)...and here, now, in the former Northampton Township.

All three areas are fed out of Bath, and always have been. (When I had Adelphia in Montrose, the Weather Channel's local forecasts showed Bath! They actually changed that to Akron somewhere along the way.)

Anyway, I'm glad Ed is reporting the problem. He lives nowhere near me, but he's on the same system, so it would presumably be something they have to fix. And nickdawg, I didn't know you were STILL having the problem.

TWC has to fix SDV. :D

hookbill, you don't have it yet because it sounds like they are doing it node by node, and so far, it sounds like Bath is the only one "lit up" for SDV in the old Adelphia region.

Well, arn't I lucky. They experimented with you first.:D;)

I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure the Problem Children HD channels were showing up as 585.0000 on the diagnostic screen.

Ed, I'm glad to hear you are in the same boat...not because I want you to sink :) But you're on the same part of the old Adelphia system that I am. Bath feeds all of western Summit County and far eastern Medina County (Bath/Copley/Northampton, etc.).

I've personally been a customer of this system three times over the years - not long after Cablevision first built it out that far south of Cleveland, in Medina County's Sharon Township,..then when I moved back here in 2003, I had it as the former Adelphia in the Montrose area (Copley Twp. near 18 and 77/21)...and here, now, in the former Northampton Township.

All three areas are fed out of Bath, and always have been. (When I had Adelphia in Montrose, the Weather Channel's local forecasts showed Bath! They actually changed that to Akron somewhere along the way.)

Anyway, I'm glad Ed is reporting the problem. He lives nowhere near me, but he's on the same system, so it would presumably be something they have to fix. And nickdawg, I didn't know you were STILL having the problem.

TWC has to fix SDV. :D

hookbill, you don't have it yet because it sounds like they are doing it node by node, and so far, it sounds like Bath is the only one "lit up" for SDV in the old Adelphia region.

I'm glad you're in the same boat too, and not because I want anyone to sink! ;) I flipped through all the channels with the diagnostics screen open and all the problems I observed were on channels that were on 585.000MHz. 573 and 597)the other two I have observed) appear to be working correctly. It sounds like there is more to this(as I originally thought) than just my box or my wiring. Unfortunately, I seem to be the only HDTV on my street(well at least the only one with TWC :(). But I have seen a few more TWC vans in the area lately. One down the street today and one a street over yesterday.

What I'd like to know is why they don't disable 585.000MHz. Do they not observe what is going out over the lines? Could some outside source be causing interference with SDV?

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7632/crimewarnercablesmall.png

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7632/crimewarnercablesmall.png

Very good nickdawg, lmao.

[QUOTE=nickdawg;16268700]What I'd like to know is why they don't disable 585.000MHz. Do they not observe what is going out over the lines? Could some outside source be causing interference with SDV?

I'd almost put money down that the signal is clean coming out of their distribution points, and the signal is degraded by some outside influence. Bad lines, loose grounds, squirrels chewing on coax - take your pick. I suppose TW *could* monitor the QAM error rates on their customers' digital boxes, but that would open up a world of headaches for them... "Plausible deniability"...

As for the interference on 585MHz, I poked around a bit. WYTV (channel 33) in Youngstown is on that same frequency, but they're too far away to be a likely source, and their signal is centered at 587MHz. However......

585.000 / 6 = 97.500 - Hmm, there's a 1000' tower in West Akron pumping out about a zillion watts... Add in the fact that a bad connection or open cable drop in your neighbor's house can affect the entire neighborhood, and...

[QUOTE=nickdawg;16268700]What I'd like to know is why they don't disable 585.000MHz. Do they not observe what is going out over the lines? Could some outside source be causing interference with SDV?

I'd almost put money down that the signal is clean coming out of their distribution points, and the signal is degraded by some outside influence. Bad lines, loose grounds, squirrels chewing on coax - take your pick. I suppose TW *could* monitor the QAM error rates on their customers' digital boxes, but that would open up a world of headaches for them... "Plausible deniability"...

As for the interference on 585MHz, I poked around a bit. WYTV (channel 33) in Youngstown is on that same frequency, but they're too far away to be a likely source, and their signal is centered at 587MHz. However......

585.000 / 6 = 97.500 - Hmm, there's a 1000' tower in West Akron pumping out about a zillion watts... Add in the fact that a bad connection or open cable drop in your neighbor's house can affect the entire neighborhood, and...

You're down in our area, have you seen any issues with any of the SDV channels? We discussed the channel 33 frequency issue here before, and it did seem unlikely here in Summit County, as I have never been able to get 33 OTA. But 97.500 makes sense, that would be strong enough to have an effect on TVs in Akron, Bath, Copley, etc. I know the problem is not in my house, as all my wiring was checked and I tried my box connected directly to the main cable line without any splitters. If it is a connection problem, it would have to be somewhere outside. I'll have to bring that up when the outside line person shows up.

My question is have you tried (anyone with this problem in particular) hooking an analog set up to the line directly and manually tuning to channel 84 in CATV mode (centers on 585mhz) and compare to the other channels to see if the visual static looks any different? Anything at all out of whack to mention, etc..

I know I probably mentioned this thought before, but my brain's shot right now and can't recall if anyone came back with a result.

(Though if the interference is only bad enough to just cause pixelization and not a total dropout, the interference is probably not the cause of some major ingress let alone visible to the naked eye on an analog set.)

We now have our signal diagnostics back (at least those of us with Navigator), what's the downstream and SNR levels look like on the tuner locked into 585? -15 to +15 (0 is perfect usually) with an SNR above 30 (35+ is good, but anything above 30 is 'usually' sufficient for digital services). If the signal displayed by your box is good, the channel problems /ARE/ upstream and out of your control. Something I'd continue to complain to TWC about.

I'd help investigate, but fortunately all the new SDV channels have been perfect lately here in the legacy area. Not even any 'channel unavailable' errors. And I've even repeatedly recorded shows off USA HD, Discovery HD, and Palladia HD, sometimes two at the same time; /WITH AN SA NAVIGATOR BOX!/; not a glitch.

[QUOTE=mnowlin;16269068]You're down in our area, have you seen any issues with any of the SDV channels?

I did see some minor dropouts on my recording of Dirty Jobs on Discovery HD, but can't tell which SDV frequency it was on. I'll try to watch Mythbusters live tomorrow - if there are problems, I can look at the Tivo diag screens and see which frequency it's tuned to.

See, you live in Warren, which is farther away from the location of the 97.500 tower. I found it on Google maps. Over by Copley Road, so if this is the culprit, it makes sense that Inundated and Ed are seeing even worse results(not available, black screens).

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=41.064722,++-81.583056+(WONE-FM+Transmitter)&t=k&iwloc=A&hl=en

Right now I have two problem channels tuned. One tuner has video/audio PID numbers, one just shows zeroes for those items. Both are 585.000MHz (Discovery and Palladia). Palladia worked this morning when I recorded.

QAM Statistics
Freq: 585.000MHz
Ch. Lock: Locked
Tuning Mode: QAM256
Tuner BER (avg) 1.26x10-2
Power Level 4 dBmV
SNR: 35 dB

QAM2 Statistics
Freq: 585.000 MHz
CH lock: Locked
Tuning Mode QAM256
Tuner BER (avg) 1.26x10-2
Power Level 4dBmV
SNR 35dB
-----------------
Now, I compare that to a working SDV channel:
Freq: 597.000MHz
Ch Lock: Locked
Tuning Mode QAM256
Tuner BER (avg) 0
Power Level 4 dBmV
SNR 35 dB

Corrected Bytes 0
Uncorrected Blks 0

On the problem channels, Corrected Bytes/Uncorrected Blks was a constantly changing number.

IIRC, the BER is supposed to be at YYYx10-6 or YYYx10-7. If you're seeing x10-2, that's a huge amount of errors, almost unwatchable.

They told me it had no HDMI port. On my TV, I was getting a less sharp pic from component video input than I was from HDMI. This was true for video signals from my 8300HD and from my Denon 3910 DVD player. PQ is often the same from HDMI and component, but not always--other people have reported this, too.

So once I found out that the replacement they were offering (which they didn't even have in stock) had "no HDMI" (their words), I was not interested. Also, on my end of the cable, "no HDMI" and "HMDI port that was not activated" are equivalent, of course.

Understand. ;)

I have heard that, but it goes both ways. Component can have the sharper/crisper picture over HDMI as well, depending on settings.

Did you calibrate your TV to each input type? i.e. Complete calibration for HDMI then another complete calibration for Component?

Using factory default settings on a TV (tweaked for display purposes for show room floor) can result in such a disparity for the two input types.

Understand. ;)

I have heard that, but it goes both ways. Component can have the sharper/crisper picture over HDMI as well, depending on settings.

Did you calibrate your TV to each input type? i.e. Complete calibration for HDMI then another complete calibration for Component?

Using factory default settings on a TV (tweaked for display purposes for show room floor) can result in such a disparity for the two input types.

I have a point on this too. If you were not suppose to get a better picture then component, then why did they ever come come up with the now antiquated DVI?

DVI was set up to give you a better picture then component. In addition in my manual it has a listing of what gives you a better picture and HDMI is listed as "best."

Now I admit I can't see the difference, but I'm not a videophile and I've never even tried component on my 30LG37. However I'm pretty convinced after thinking it over that HDMI is at least suppose to have a better pq then component, as would DVI.

For the record, no changes over night in my area. I guess they want to deal with the problems they have in the first area of SARA they started with and then hopefully they have it ready to go when it gets to my house.

BTW the reason I said Ed probably just needs a hit delivered to his cards to receive the missing channels is because he now has a solid green light on his tuning adapter. That would indicate to me that if he has them send a hit it should light up the remainder of the channels.

As one who has had cable cards for almost three years now I kind of know what makes them work and what doesn't. Granted I haven't experienced the tuner adapter but common sense tells me, green light, hit to cards will at least get rid of the "channel not available" message he's getting on his TiVo.

Hookbill:
I believe DVI is video only with a separate cable for sound hence, HDMI video with sound.
JJK

Hookbill:
I believe DVI is video only with a separate cable for sound hence, HDMI video with sound.
JJK
I know that. My point is that HDMI was created to bring a digital picture and sound which in theory would be better then component. DVI is picture only created before HDMI.

By the way 585 Mhz is TV analog channel 33, though I would doubt that leakage into the system from that station in Youngstown would cause this problem.

I know that. My point is that HDMI was created to bring a digital picture and sound which in theory would be better then component. DVI is picture only created before HDMI.

HDMI is no better in PQ, it's only real technical advantages are speed (mostly computer usage) and higher bandwidth. The only current need in A/V for HDMI is increased bandwidth for high bitrate multi-channel audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA, SACD, DVD-Audio) and even this is not "required" as you can achieve the same results with a source device and AVR with analog multi-channel Inputs/Outputs. But this workaround is a major PITA requiring 8 analog cable sets just for audio (enter convenience factor :cool:)

In the future there *may* be video enhancements that would also require the extended bandwidth capabilities of HDMI (beyond 1080p resolutions, Deep Color, etc...). But these are not even in use yet and some of the proposed future video enhancements may never come to life.

Beyond the convenience of a single cable for all video and all audio needs there is little else HDMI offers in the current A/V world.
I love HDMI, I use HDMI where applicable, I'm not knocking it. It just isn't needed in a cable/sat/ota environment.

If there is a difference in PQ between HDMI and Component then something is wrong in the video chain. In fact, professional home theatre installers often avoid HDMI where possible as they know there is a far greater likelihood of tech support issues and consumer problems with the many issues HDMI brings to CE devices (incompatibilities, hand shake, flaky connections, etc...)

IIRC, the BER is supposed to be at YYYx10-6 or YYYx10-7. If you're seeing x10-2, that's a huge amount of errors, almost unwatchable.

Yes. The x10-2 is from the channels that are an unwatchable mess or a black screen.

HDMI is no better in PQ, it's only real technical advantages are speed (mostly computer usage) and higher bandwidth. The only current need in A/V for HDMI is increased bandwidth for high bitrate multi-channel audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA, SACD, DVD-Audio) and even this is not "required" as you can achieve the same results with a source device and AVR with analog multi-channel Inputs/Outputs. But this workaround is a major PITA requiring 8 analog cable sets just for audio (enter convenience factor :cool:)

In the future there *may* be video enhancements that would also require the extended bandwidth capabilities of HDMI (beyond 1080p resolutions, Deep Color, etc...). But these are not even in use yet and some of the proposed future video enhancements may never come to life.

Beyond the convenience of a single cable for all video and all audio needs there is little else HDMI offers in the current A/V world.
I love HDMI, I use HDMI where applicable, I'm not knocking it. It just isn't needed in a cable/sat/ota environment.

If there is a difference in PQ between HDMI and Component then something is wrong in the video chain. In fact, professional home theatre installers often avoid HDMI where possible as they know there is a far greater likelihood of tech support issues and consumer problems with the many issues HDMI brings to CE devices (incompatibilities, hand shake, flaky connections, etc...)

I can't see the difference but how can a digital signal not be better then component? It doesn't make sense.

I guess will just have to disagree about this.

I can't see the difference but how can a digital signal not be better then component? It doesn't make sense.

I guess will just have to disagree about this.

You not seeing the difference is exactly my point, few can.

Doing a quick google search, here is a write up explaining the three different HD video connections and why one may render a better PQ than another. As the article explains, it can be dependent on the source device, end point device (TV), or any device or cable in the video chain.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html

If the source, interconnect, and TV are of decent build quality it should not make a difference. Using such good quality devices, calibrated properly, I defy anyone to tell me which TV is using HDMI and which is using Component. ;)

ex: I brought one of my OPPO players (one of the best upconverting DVD players on the market) to a friends who wanted to see the "HDMI difference" on his factory default 50" plasma. His Component connected cable box and DVD player rendered a nice picture. His HDMI port via the OPPO was unwatchable. I didn't do a calibration, and as I suspected the HDMI video processing for his make & model is not well regarded on consumer review sites. It can vary greatly. :)

Anyone catch this? You know things are bad when one of the highest regarded HD TV brands can't keep pace with competitors.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123398482356760019.html

On the upside, one of the major deciding factors to make such an exit is directly related to Pioneer's competitors reducing HD panel prices much deeper and much faster than anticipated. :D

Toby dont forget about HDCP (did I miss that somewhere in what you wrote, if I did I apologize) if you hook up your Box via component then your set will fail when a station runs HDCP (HBO is starting to do this I believe, and the sat companies are using it as well with some of their MRV). So another upside to HDMI is the HDCP factor, and I ASS-U-ME stations will begin using this more in the near future.

I'm guessing the 135 mo for sat included a lot more ch's than the TWC pkg you are comparing it too.

I actually have 8 boxes on my account (yes I know I know thats alot of tvs) but thats a positive with time warner is 5 of the tvs we use have QAM tuners and we use those for Locals and Sports only and really dont need HD on them so I can save on about25 bucks right there, my break down when all is said and done is this

Directv

75.99-Channels (over 200)+HD+DVR
5.99-Protection Plan Fee
12.99-Sports pack
4.99 leased reciever fee (we have 8 recievers so times this by 8.)
7.31 sales tax (stupid state of ohio :) )
plus the 35 a month for internet (att dsl)
_______________
177.20

Time Warner would be

121 plus taxes as I would have 3 boxes (2 HD DVR, and 1 regular HD Box) then plug rest of tvs in and this includes internet.

so really I think the big thing is this, if I needed boxes for all tvs with time warner then I probably wouldnt save, but because I dont need boxes with time warner that is where the savings is coming in.

........
Directv

75.99-Channels (over 200)+HD+DVR
5.99-Protection Plan Fee
12.99-Sports pack
4.99 leased reciever fee (we have 8 recievers so times this by 8.)
7.31 sales tax (stupid state of ohio :) )
plus the 35 a month for internet (att dsl)
_______________
177.20

..............

Yes, now it makes more sense. :) $76 compared to TWC's $85 (guesstimates)

And, yes, HDCP is another issue to throw into the HDMI vs Component mix. I just didn't want the OP to fall into the "you need HDMI" trap that many consumers get wrangled into due to confusion, assumptions it must be better, aggressive Best Buy salesman, or even the CE industry purposefully making HDMI confusing for the average consumer. ;)

HDMI, when it works, is a great tool in the A/V arsenal. When it doesn't work (as it is supposed to) it can become a consumer nightmare of finger pointing and incompatibilities. Luckily all of my HDMI devices play nice together, but I have many friends and relatives who have not been so lucky. :mad:

I actually have 8 boxes on my account (yes I know I know thats alot of tvs) but thats a positive with time warner is 5 of the tvs we use have QAM tuners and we use those for Locals and Sports only and really dont need HD on them so I can save on about25 bucks right there, my break down when all is said and done is thisThat looks about right, if not atypical. 8 boxes would put you over with Directv. I don't even know if you can have eight boxes with Directv, ie... limited by the number of hookups to the dish.

HDMI, when it works, is a great tool in the A/V arsenal. When it doesn't work (as it is supposed to) it can become a consumer nightmare of finger pointing and incompatibilities. Luckily all of my HDMI devices play nice together, but I have many friends and relatives who have not been so lucky. :mad:

Huh. I've never had a problem with it. And that's even with the SA 8300.:D

Yes, now it makes more sense. :) $76 compared to TWC's $85 (guesstimates)

And, yes, HDCP is another issue to throw into the HDMI vs Component mix. I just didn't want the OP to fall into the "you need HDMI" trap that many consumers get wrangled into due to confusion, assumptions it must be better, aggressive Best Buy salesman, or even the CE industry purposefully making HDMI confusing for the average consumer. ;)

HDMI, when it works, is a great tool in the A/V arsenal. When it doesn't work (as it is supposed to) it can become a consumer nightmare of finger pointing and incompatibilities. Luckily all of my HDMI devices play nice together, but I have many friends and relatives who have not been so lucky. :mad:

I actually agree with you, I have a onkyo 606 and my s350 bluray player Sounds amazing with dolby trueHD and DTSMA....now when I am done watching a bluray and want to flip on my directv to check a score or watch news before I go to bed, Hand Shaking issues ALWAYS get me and I dont know why, I have to turn off the onkyo and turn it back on, to get the HR21 to even show up. so yeah HDMI can be VERY finiky, and be a big headache for your average Joe.

That looks about right, if not atypical. 8 boxes would put you over with Directv. I don't even know if you can have eight boxes with Directv, ie... limited by the number of hookups to the dish.

why not the have 8 port switches and 16 port switches, if you want to pay for it, they will let you have it. trust me, I am not doing account stacking or have recievers in cabins, they are all in my home.

I actually agree with you, I have a onkyo 606 and my s350 bluray player Sounds amazing with dolby trueHD and DTSMA....now when I am done watching a bluray and want to flip on my directv to check a score or watch news before I go to bed, Hand Shaking issues ALWAYS get me and I dont know why, I have to turn off the onkyo and turn it back on, to get the HR21 to even show up. so yeah HDMI can be VERY finiky, and be a big headache for your average Joe.

Uh huh. Exactly my point. ;)

Unfortunately, not uncommon. :(

Hi All. I just got my new antennas hooked up. I am 50 - 60 miles from the cleveland stations and am getting a great signal on all the uhf channels. However, I can't get squat out of the vhf. WKYC (3 - NBC) gets nothing and WOIO (10 - CBS) gets a bit of signal but not enough to view. WKYC moves to UHF in June so I am hoping that fixes that problem. However WOIO is moving from 19 to 10. I can get a snowy analog WOIO signal on 19 now. My43 WUAB is supposedly on the same tower and I get a signal strength of 70 and a great picture on that station. Nothing on WOIO - 10 though. Anybody have some recommendations about how to pull in WOIO - 10? New equipment is ok.

Winegard HD 5030 VHF Antenna
Antennas Direct 91XG UHF
ChannelMaster 7777 Pre-Amp
2 - Perfect Vision PVDP2 Diplexer Dual Satellite Dish TV Antenna Combiners
TIVO HD

Thanks in advance everyone.Nope. WUAB has it's own tower at the opposite end of the antenna farm from WOIO. While Raycom has an "LMA" for WUAB the towers for both stations were erected back when they were separate entities. Today, the only tower with multiple TV stations on it is WBNX, which has virtually every LPTV station (35, 53 & 65) farther down the stick. Once it get erected, WKYC and WVIZ will be on the same stick. Today WVIZ is sitting on WKYC's back-up tower, so technically it's not yet sharing the same tower.

Tower-wise: WUAB is next door to WEWS. Both are just north of WJW.
The rest are in a row starting with WKYC on Broadview RD just above Ridgewood DR., with WOIO, WBNX and WQHS behind WKYC and along Ridgewood (btw it's the "Ridgewood Row's" tower lights that illuminate my back yard :D )

This will come of interest to you, from OMW (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/04/picking-back-up.html):

AS EXPLAINED IN IDEASTREAM'S REQUEST FOR ALTERNATIVE BUILDOUT, WVIZ'S FINAL AUTHORIZED DTV FACILITY IS TO BE LOCATED ON A NEW TOWER TO BE SHARED WITH STATION WKYC-DT. THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT TOWER HAD BEEN UNEXPECTEDLY DELAYED (SEE, STA REQUEST OF WKYC-TV, INC., FCC FILE NO. BDSTA-20081201AWR AND MONTHLY FCC FORM 387 UPDATES FILED BY WKYC-TV, INC.). WHILE COMPLETION OF A FINAL FACILITY TO MEET A FEBRUARY 17, 2009 DEADLINE WAS NOT POSSIBLE, IDEASTREAM UNDERSTANDS FROM WKYC-TV, INC. THAT THE NEW TOWER WILL BE COMPLETED WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE NEW JUNE 12, 2009 DEADLINE.

According to the report the tower probably won't light up until 6/12.

After the initial section of the new WKYC/WVIZ tower went up about 2 weeks ago, I saw no further work going on. At the time I had the opportunity to see the new tower daily from the parking lot of my church. I was expecting it to grow taller day by day but that was not the case.

I just noticed that now there is a huge letter "5" bug on screen on WEWHD during Wheel. THaNks, I had no clue what channel I was watching and would be lost without your little flying bug! :rolleyes:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7632/crimewarnercablesmall.png

Very good nickdawg, lmao.

Thanks! :D Notice that I even blew up the little "c" from cable to make the "c" in Crime match in their font. Too bad the image didn't show up in the IMG tags in my signature line. :(

Anyone noticing that it is looking like the WEWS-SD cable feed is now a simulcast of the DT channel? Bugs look different, but not much of a difference in PQ.

Anyone noticing that it is looking like the WEWS-SD cable feed is now a simulcast of the DT channel? Bugs look different, but not much of a difference in PQ.

Yes. The main thing I noticed is the idiots at ABC have their bug in the wrong damn spot. Now channel 5 (according to the bug on a SDTV) is "ab". The bug is all the way in the corner. Even on my HDTV, the "abc" bug is flirting with the right sidebar.

I'm happy to see this. At least TWC is getting closer to "post June 12" way of doing things. I remember some other channels were doing this on TWC a few months back, but I think FOX went back to using the SD network/affiliate feed. I hope WKYC is next. To use the DT channel simulcast for SD would be perfect, finally an end to the horrid letterbox picture! :D:D:D:D:D

You guys need to get a boot up TWC's rear up there in ex-Adelphia land. :p Between of being stuck with the analog OTA feeds for locals on the SD channels and even having 2-99 be fed analog on the STB's, I really feel bad for you.

We're still running the DTV channel feeds here even with the shutoff date moved. In particular, WYFX is centercut (right now Two and a Half Men is on which is a 4:3 program and on my SD set the 'Fox Youngstown' logo is cut off on the bottom right corner. I see the F and half the O in FOX and 'youngs' in youngstown.)

Yes. The main thing I noticed is the idiots at ABC have their bug in the wrong damn spot. Now channel 5 (according to the bug on a SDTV) is "ab". The bug is all the way in the corner. Even on my HDTV, the "abc" bug is flirting with the right sidebar.

I'm happy to see this. At least TWC is getting closer to "post June 12" way of doing things. I remember some other channels were doing this on TWC a few months back, but I think FOX went back to using the SD network/affiliate feed. I hope WKYC is next. To use the DT channel simulcast for SD would be perfect, finally an end to the horrid letterbox picture! :D:D:D:D:D

I noticed that too. WJW looked better that way too, but they went back for some reason...

You guys need to get a boot up TWC's rear up there in ex-Adelphia land. :p Between of being stuck with the analog OTA feeds for locals on the SD channels and even having 2-99 be fed analog on the STB's, I really feel bad for you.

We're still running the DTV channel feeds here even with the shutoff date moved. In particular, WYFX is centercut (right now Two and a Half Men is on which is a 4:3 program and on my SD set the 'Fox Youngstown' logo is cut off on the bottom right corner. I see the F and half the O in FOX and 'youngs' in youngstown.)

Consider yourself lucky to have the Youngstown affiliates. At least your CBS-SD cable picture doesn't have cataracts like WOIO!

You guys need to get a boot up TWC's rear up there in ex-Adelphia land. :p Between of being stuck with the analog OTA feeds for locals on the SD channels and even having 2-99 be fed analog on the STB's, I really feel bad for you.

We're still running the DTV channel feeds here even with the shutoff date moved. In particular, WYFX is centercut (right now Two and a Half Men is on which is a 4:3 program and on my SD set the 'Fox Youngstown' logo is cut off on the bottom right corner. I see the F and half the O in FOX and 'youngs' in youngstown.)

Trust me when I tell you it will be years before we have all digital.

Being to close to low income Cleveland TW is not going to lose all those people still relying on analog basic. So we will continue to have this awful upgraded analog to digital on local SD channel.

That is why I watch just the HD channels except WBNX which is still shown in analog.

Trust me when I tell you it will be years before we have all digital.

Being to close to low income Cleveland TW is not going to lose all those people still relying on analog basic. So we will continue to have this awful upgraded analog to digital on local SD channel.

That is why I watch just the HD channels except WBNX which is still shown in analog.

Hey, we have lots of low income areas around here. Doesn't mean we haven't been able to simulcast channels 2-99 in digital to digital cable customers while keeping analog around for basic customers. Can't see why they haven't been able to do the same for you guys up there.

This is also another reason (though probably a bit of a stretch) that these boxes could fail prematurely and that's because tuning into those analog channels they have to first encode the incoming signal to digital before anything else is done with it.

For a while here we still had the couple public access channels in pure analog even on the STBs and when you'd sit on them for any decent amount of time the box would start throwing off a bit of heat from the general area of one of the larger chips (I assume being the mpeg2 encoder) in addition to recordings using WAY much more hard disk space than they really need to for an SD program. Digital SD channels use much less disk space, less thrashing of the drive, and less stress and heat on the box in general (0 use of the mpeg2 encoder and decoding is much less intensive than encoding.).

As far as channel layouts are concerned, is there really a whole lot of difference between of the legacy areas here and ex-adelphia territory up there? I assume since the major lineup change last year, everything 100+ matches in both areas? What's the channel count on 2-99 look like? If we can keep the amount of analogs we have now, simulcast those, AND have all these digital channels and new HD's thanks to SDV, I can't see how you guys can't get fed digital simulcast versions of your analogs. That's just absolutely draconian here in 2009.

Consider yourself lucky to have the Youngstown affiliates. At least your CBS-SD cable picture doesn't have cataracts like WOIO!

Actually, I feel damn lucky cause we get both Youngstown AND Cleveland affiliates. :D Well, for the big 3 ABC, CBS, and NBC anyway.

2-WEAO/WNEO (No idea which one. tvguide.com says WEAO, coulda swore myself it was WNEO. Same sh*t different transmitter though. *shrug*)
3-WKYC
4-WFMJ
5-WEWS
6-WKBN
7-WYTV
8-WJW
10-WYFX
11-WOIO
14-WBCB

With the same going for the HD simulcasts of those (all except for WBCB which kinda blows. We get no HD WB channel down here.). I actually take a huge advantage of this and record primetime network programming mostly on the cleveland networks since they have the HD equipment and won't cut the shows all the way back down to window-boxed SD every time they need to run a weather crawl or lottery numbers. :D

You guys need to get a boot up TWC's rear up there in ex-Adelphia land. :p Between of being stuck with the analog OTA feeds for locals on the SD channels and even having 2-99 be fed analog on the STB's, I really feel bad for you.

We're still running the DTV channel feeds here even with the shutoff date moved. In particular, WYFX is centercut (right now Two and a Half Men is on which is a 4:3 program and on my SD set the 'Fox Youngstown' logo is cut off on the bottom right corner. I see the F and half the O in FOX and 'youngs' in youngstown.)

When WJW was Digital, the "FOX 8-1 WJW-DT Cleveland" bug on non-network programming looked funny. There was just a big "FOX" and part of "Cleve" showing. And these idiots are still using the damn bug! Even though I complained about 5's bug, at least 5 has their bug in the RIGHT place, which is more than can be said about their network, ABC.

I liked the digital WJW because FOX's stupid analog letterbox was avoided, plus, since the primetime FOX bug is in the right sidebar area, the SD channel had a bug-free primetime presentation. :cool: I get the feeling it is that reason that the digital version of WJW is gone for now. I don't think FOX was too happy with a bug free broadcast. How would people know what they are watching? ;);)

Actually, I feel damn lucky cause we get both Youngstown AND Cleveland affiliates. :D Well, for the big 3 ABC, CBS, and NBC anyway.

2-WEAO/WNEO (No idea which one. tvguide.com says WEAO, coulda swore myself it was WNEO. Same sh*t different transmitter though. *shrug*)
3-WKYC
4-WFMJ
5-WEWS
6-WKBN
7-WYTV
8-WJW
10-WYFX
11-WOIO
14-WBCB

You're lucky!! There are many times I wish I could turn to the Youngstown stations, when Cleveland does something stupid. Plus, with TRASH on our lineup like WDLI, WOAC, WAOH; I'd rather have something worth watching instead of religious infomercial crap. :D

I noticed that too. WJW looked better that way too, but they went back for some reason...

There was a period of "technical difficulties" a few months back when they were changing things. But my real guess is that FOX was pissed since their HD bug isn't visible on SDTVs, like the other networks. It was nice because of the improved PQ and the bug free picture on all programming. You know FOX had to be pissed over that! ;)

Consider yourself lucky to have the Youngstown affiliates. At least your CBS-SD cable picture doesn't have cataracts like WOIO!

WOIO is unwatchable! I don't know if it is analog or DT right now on TWC, but it is hideous. Even analog OTA 19 with old rabbit ears looks better than TWC's "digital" version of SD WOIO. It looks like Vasoline is smeared on the TV screen.

Here, I'll show you what the problem is with ABC's bug. I found an episode of Samantha Who from a few weeks back that had the bug in the correct location. And last week's episode with the bug in the wrong spot.

Here's where the bug should be:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4660/abcrightbug.png

Here's where the bug currently is. It's WRONG:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4497/abcwrongbug.png

About the lines. I borrowed the FOX network bug specifications and the lines that mark various items.

White: DTV Picture Safe area. For HDTVs that have some overscan.
Magenta: CinemaScope Letterbox (2.35:1 movie presentations)
Light Green: 4:3 safe (in the most liberal sense of the term, IMO)

The dark blue lines are my own creation. Based on what I saw on WEWS SD, I judged about where the on-screen items(TV Rating, Network Bug) were with the sidebars, and inserted the blue lines.

The funny thing is even though the bug is in the wrong spot, the ads after commercial breaks are in the right spot. Wouldn't want those ads cut off! ;)

Hey, we have lots of low income areas around here. Doesn't mean we haven't been able to simulcast channels 2-99 in digital to digital cable customers while keeping analog around for basic customers. Can't see why they haven't been able to do the same for you guys up there.

This is also another reason (though probably a bit of a stretch) that these boxes could fail prematurely and that's because tuning into those analog channels they have to first encode the incoming signal to digital before anything else is done with it.

For a while here we still had the couple public access channels in pure analog even on the STBs and when you'd sit on them for any decent amount of time the box would start throwing off a bit of heat from the general area of one of the larger chips (I assume being the mpeg2 encoder) in addition to recordings using WAY much more hard disk space than they really need to for an SD program. Digital SD channels use much less disk space, less thrashing of the drive, and less stress and heat on the box in general (0 use of the mpeg2 encoder and decoding is much less intensive than encoding.).

As far as channel layouts are concerned, is there really a whole lot of difference between of the legacy areas here and ex-adelphia territory up there? I assume since the major lineup change last year, everything 100+ matches in both areas? What's the channel count on 2-99 look like? If we can keep the amount of analogs we have now, simulcast those, AND have all these digital channels and new HD's thanks to SDV, I can't see how you guys can't get fed digital simulcast versions of your analogs. That's just absolutely draconian here in 2009.

The big difference in Legacy according to nickdawg and our area is that all of our channels under 99 are analog except for the upgraded locals that are analog to digital, not simulcast. Unless that has changed as someone else reported, I will check this morning and get back to you.

However I am quite confident that all of the remaining channels are analog in the described range. According to nickdawg legacy TW is 100% digital.

The big difference in Legacy according to nickdawg and our area is that all of our channels under 99 are analog except for the upgraded locals that are analog to digital, not simulcast. Unless that has changed as someone else reported, I will check this morning and get back to you.

However I am quite confident that all of the remaining channels are analog in the described range. According to nickdawg legacy TW is 100% digital.

No, we are FAR from being 100% digital. I still have 3 tv's in this house directly hooked to the cable line without boxes that work. There are too many 'poor' areas around here just the same to force everyone to buy a box to keep their channels. Not for a long while anyhow.

I think what nickdawg was actually referring to by 100% digital is that if you have an STB, 2-99 is digitally simulcast to you instead of analog in addition to everything 100+. Which is exactly what I have been referring to.

Up there in the ex-adelphia area they really should not have any reason to not digitally simulcast 2-99 for you guys too.

No, we are FAR from being 100% digital. I still have 3 tv's in this house directly hooked to the cable line without boxes that work. There are too many 'poor' areas around here just the same to force everyone to buy a box to keep their channels. Not for a long while anyhow.

I think what nickdawg was actually referring to by 100% digital is that if you have an STB, 2-99 is digitally simulcast to you instead of analog in addition to everything 100+. Which is exactly what I have been referring to.

Up there in the ex-adelphia area they really should not have any reason to not digitally simulcast 2-99 for you guys too.

When you say digitally simulcast are you referring to analog to digital conversion or a real digital simulcast?

I think you have real digital simulcast and that's the difference. Our channels with the box are still in analog except for the locals which are upgraded from analog to digital and quit frankly look like crap. WBNX as I said the lone exception, it never was on digital and still isn't to this day (for us).

Now I have a clearer picture of what you're talking about if it is the way I described. And you're right if you can get it why can't we?

To the best of my knowledge still no signs of SDV in my area, and considering all the problems it seemed to have caused in exAdelphia SARA land I'm kind of glad they are delaying it. Hopefully they will fix that before trying it again, but who knows?

Yep You got it. Here in legacy territory, the STB's get channels 2-99 invluding the locals and cable stations all in digital just like you get from the digital package channels up in the 100s, 200s, etc.. This is in addition though to those same channels still being available in analog for tv sets without any boxes.

Digital boxes get them in digital, regular tv's get them in analog. Same channels, same programming, same channel positions.

But it's been well covered that you guys still get them in yucky analog even if you have a box which is really uncalled for these days especially with all these upgrades going on. They need to get you all up to speed.

2-WEAO/WNEO (No idea which one. tvguide.com says WEAO, coulda swore myself it was WNEO. Same sh*t different transmitter though. *shrug*)


Oddly enough, over here in the TWC/ex-Adelphia/Cleveland system, the station is listed on the cable box guide as WNEO, though we're certainly getting WEAO.

I think what happened is that you guys are now getting the WEAO feed sent to you out of TWC's Cleveland/Akron systems (my guess - via the headend in North Canton).

I think 45/49 had to bring in WEAO for you Youngstown market folks back in November, when WNEO shut down its analog, and had no feed in either analog or digital for about a week and change until the new digital 45 went up.

It's probably unchanged, as TWC likely already sent you the Cleveland market stations via pickup here, not there. It's just one more to send over, and as you say, there's no programming difference.


With the same going for the HD simulcasts of those (all except for WBCB which kinda blows. We get no HD WB channel down here.).


I don't think there is an HD version of WBCB. Unlike WKBN and "Fox Youngstown", WFMJ still sends out an SD version via DT 21.2, and I don't think they have a cable-only HD feed for WBCB.

But it's been well covered that you guys still get them in yucky analog even if you have a box which is really uncalled for these days especially with all these upgrades going on. They need to get you all up to speed.

Not only that, the mirrors of the analog channels in the over-100s are actually literally mirrors of the analog channels, even on digital cable boxes! If you tune to 350 for CNN, it's the exact same feed as analog 34.

Sigh.

I think this has been discussed before but I'm not clear. So now on June 12 what is TW going to do? Are they going to give us digital locals at least or are they going to do something really dumb like convert digital to analog and then convert it to digital?

I've got a huge delay in broadcast time between WKYC & STO. STO is at least one full sentence ahead of WKYC.

However I am quite confident that all of the remaining channels are analog in the described range. According to nickdawg legacy TW is 100% digital.

Yes, with a box. I've totally disregarded crappy, old analog broadcasts without a box, even though they are still (UNFORTUNATELY) there. (sigh) :( As far as I'm concerned, and for the AVS HDTV Programming topic, we are 100% digital because all the channels on our HDTV STBs are digital. Our area could use the new, digital only tuner version of the new Sammy DVR.

Also, I think it is a Digital==>Analog conversion. I think they're using a digital source because I have seen on a rare occasion macroblocking on an analog TV set, which had to be from the source.

Yes, with a box. I've totally disregarded crappy, old analog broadcasts without a box, even though they are still (UNFORTUNATELY) there. (sigh) :( As far as I'm concerned, and for the AVS HDTV Programming topic, we are 100% digital because all the channels on our HDTV STBs are digital. Our area could use the new, digital only tuner version of the new Sammy DVR.

Also, I think it is a Digital==>Analog conversion. I think they're using a digital source because I have seen on a rare occasion macroblocking on an analog TV set, which had to be from the source.

Well, then that positively sucks. I hate the conversions, I'd rather just have analog.

Just because it's digital doesn't make it better.

Anyone noticing that it is looking like the WEWS-SD cable feed is now a simulcast of the DT channel? Bugs look different, but not much of a difference in PQ.
It's the same thing on E* (Dish Network). The ABC bug is just "AB".

NBC used to broadcast in letterbox on their analog feed, that makes more sense than just cropping the 16x9 picture for 4X3 screens. It must be standard practice now just to crop instead of a letterbox.

Even WNEO/WEAO is cropped. I compared the SD satellite picture with 49.2. 49.2 looked better (letterbox with the "Western Reserve PBS" logo below the letterbox). The satellite feed has the HD feed cropped with a somewhat cropped "Western Reserve" logo off the true HD feed.

WRPBS goes through all the trouble to send a correct 4x3 SD picture and they don't even use it! Ironically they added the true HD feed to the satellite feed yet, I still have to use an OTA antenna. I don't mind personally since OTA works great here and is integrated in the EPG. I even get guide data for nearly every subchannel! Having OTA also means I get WKBN/WYFX, guide data and all. I presume DirecTV's HD DVR's are similar.

While it looks stupid to get WRPBS on 5 different channels in the EPG, I have a choice: WNEO HD ota, WNEO SD ota, WEAO SD (via satellite, cropped HD feed), WEAO HD ota,and WEAO SD ota. I guess I could delete WNEO ota but my main antenna is aimed at Youngstown (that and the fact that unlike WKBN, WNEO is not received 24/7).

rluyster - I get what you're saying. Now might be a good time to start a "Cleveland, OH - OTA" thread, as this has become, first and foremost, a "Cleveland, OH - TWC/Adelphia" thread.

No knock on the TWC gang intended. Good for them that they have used this thread to their advantage. If I ever switch to TWC, I'll be glad that they're here.

toby10, I tried your suggestion regarding searching for "OTA", but it doesn't really work in practice unless every OTA-related post has the word "OTA" in it, which is hardly the case.

IMHO, it's exponentially easier to subscribe to a new OTA thread, than try to pick through the main conversation for OTA tidbits here and there.

rluyster, if you create "Cleveland, OH - OTA", I'll definitely subscribe.

Sorry to take so long to respond to your comments, I was out of town for a few days. Do you know what the AVS procedure is for creating a new thread? No disrespect towards the cable folks intended but I do think the Cleveland market should have a separate OTA thread like the other larger markets already have.

Sorry to take so long to respond to your comments, I was out of town for a few days. Do you know what the AVS procedure is for creating a new thread? No disrespect towards the cable folks intended but I do think the Cleveland market should have a separate OTA thread like the other larger markets already have.

Go here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=45

Then click Forum Tools > Start New Thread

Go here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=45

Then click Forum Tools > Start New Thread

Thanks for the assistance! A new thread with the title "Cleveland, OH - OTA Digital TV" has been created. Everyone is welcome to participate! :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1139546

It's the same thing on E* (Dish Network). The ABC bug is just "AB".

NBC used to broadcast in letterbox on their analog feed, that makes more sense than just cropping the 16x9 picture for 4X3 screens. It must be standard practice now just to crop instead of a letterbox.

I can't believe ABC hasn't fixed their bug. I think I pay more attention to it than the network does. NBC is still letterbox on TWC, since we are still getting the SD analog version of WKYC. But I'm anxiously awaiting that one going the way of WEWS, so my SDTVs will have a nice 4:3 NBC picture. :D

Anybody else get the email from TW? It says that new on demand will be starting through months of April and May. I'm not able to provide copy at this time.

From wording of the email it would appear its being done with distribution of SDV. I know no big surprise but it does confirm that they will be handling this like the line up change.

Anybody else get the email from TW? It says that new on demand will be starting through months of April and May. I'm not able to provide copy at this time.

From wording of the email it would appear its being done with distribution of SDV. I know no big surprise but it does confirm that they will be handling this like the line up change.

An email? You must have got that since you email TWC and Steve-O so much! ;) TWC doesn't even have my email address! :D

Well, if the channels above 99 are available in real digital in legacy TWC areas, maybe that explains the confused cablecard guy I had a couple of weeks ago. Still no sign of any SDV mucking around in my corner of ex-Adelphia land.

I don't understand this "too poor to have a converter box" thing. DVB-T converter boxes can be had for about the cost of a month's entry-level cable subscription, I can't see why Cable QAM boxes in quantity would be any different. It would be worth TWC absorbing the cost of issuing these to free up all the capacity wasted by the analog channels so they can sell more channels/services. Having to watch analog TV a decade into the 21st century just sucks.

I would expect that after June 12th, TWC are going to have to convert from digital to analog on the below 100 channels - looks like they do this for e.g. Weather Channel and I presume other non-OTA channels already.

An email? You must have got that since you email TWC and Steve-O so much! ;) TWC doesn't even have my email address! :D

If you get your internet somewhere else then they may not. I get my internet from TW and they do have my email. That's how they contact most of their customers.

They just like keeping you in the dark.;)

They just like keeping you in the dark.;)

haha! :D If their internet service is anything like their cable service, I'm not the one 'in the dark'. If you know what I mean...;)

But seriously. I hate this company. Every time I call with a complaint, they tried to sell me their phone or internet service. Are you kidding? I'm calling because one of your services doesn't work and you think I'm going to buy another? That's like making a car that has doors that fall off and trying to sell me another one when I bring it in to be repaired! :rolleyes:

Anybody else get the email from TW? It says that new on demand will be starting through months of April and May. I'm not able to provide copy at this time.

From wording of the email it would appear its being done with distribution of SDV. I know no big surprise but it does confirm that they will be handling this like the line up change.
Yep.. I got the email in Solon....

Nope. No email here. I take it you got it through your provided neo.rr.com accounts? I don't think I've ever given (or been stupid enough to give them) my personal non-RR email address.

Nope. No email here. I take it you got it through your provided neo.rr.com accounts? I don't think I've ever given (or been stupid enough to give them) my personal non-RR email address.


They may have my mail which is my main email but what's stupid about it? They only use it for communicating what's going on. I got my tuner adapters via email.

There may be an ad every once in a while. I never gave it to them they got it from me responding.

They may have my mail which is my main email but what's stupid about it? They only use it for communicating what's going on. I got my tuner adapters via email.

There may be an ad every once in a while. I never gave it to them they got it from me responding.

*shrug* I just don't foresee anything important enough from them to where I'd need to give them my personal address. If anything, I have my gmail account set to retrieve mail from the rr.com account should anything mildly important come in.

Also, on a side note I just got this interesting message:
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4981/3583prelaunch1240026338.th.png (http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3583prelaunch1240026338.png)
Those who currently have RR Lite will be getting a free upgrade to the Standard package from April 20th to April 30th. So a massive speed bump from 768k/128k to roughly 7mbit/512k.

Yeah, and unless I can get it for $19.95 a month, NOT INTERESTED! ;)

well i hope to download as much stuff as possible during that period of time if it includes Erie and its suburbs

Anyone in the Cleveland area using ClearQAM over the Cox cable network for their HD feed? Recently, channel 19 WOIO and channel 43 WUAB have stopped working. When I do a channel scan, they show up. However, there is no audio/video when I tune to those stations or their substations. Anyone know what the story is? I tried rescanning a few times etc, but no luck.

Anyone experiencing audio/resolution issues? My Marantz 5003 is saying there is surround sound but nothing is coming out of my surround speakers. I changed the channel to Paladia and it was full 5.1 surround.

Also, is anyone else less that thrilled with the resolution quality? I recently set up my Mitsubishi 5500 and AVR, and am currently projecting the image on my wall (waiting to buy screen). Something just doesn't seem right with the broadcast. :confused:

Nope. ABC HD on TWC is fine today. It's actually the first time in a long time that WEWS isn't having some kind of 'technical difficulty' as they've had in the past.

I'll bet the resolution problems are due to the fact you're watching it on the wall, instead of a screen.

Anyone experiencing audio/resolution issues? My Marantz 5003 is saying there is surround sound but nothing is coming out of my surround speakers. I changed the channel to Paladia and it was full 5.1 surround.

Also, is anyone else less that thrilled with the resolution quality? I recently set up my Mitsubishi 5500 and AVR, and am currently projecting the image on my wall (waiting to buy screen). Something just doesn't seem right with the broadcast. :confused:

Yes, the picture quality was like it was halfway between HD and SD, I had to turn up the brightness so I could see the darker parts of the picture.

Nope. ABC HD on TWC is fine today. It's actually the first time in a long time that WEWS isn't having some kind of 'technical difficulty' as they've had in the past.

I'll bet the resolution problems are due to the fact you're watching it on the wall, instead of a screen.

Actually , no. The wall has nothing to do with the resolution. Paladia, Discovery, Indians on FOX, all look fine.

Yes, the picture quality was like it was halfway between HD and SD, I had to turn up the brightness so I could see the darker parts of the picture.

Did you notice any surround audio problems?

WEWS is really improving their act lately. Tonight I noticed that there were several high definition channel 5 promo commercials. The "Good Morning Cleveland commercial was full screen 16:9 and a promo for Monday's news and ABC primetime had the cool HD wings with the "big blue 5" and HD. I think WEWS is broadcasting all digital for the DT channel rather than upconverting analog content when HD programming is not available. I've noticed the local commercials no longer have the VBI at the top of the screen and the picture is a bit wider than my 4:3 channel banner.

Did you notice any surround audio problems?

I do not have a surround sound, only Hi-Def TV and two channel stereo.

Did you notice any surround audio problems?

I think it's a broadcast problem. I'm getting no surround on ABC via OTA and WOW Cable. It is being decoded as DD 5.1, but no rear audio.

I think it's a broadcast problem. I'm getting no surround on ABC via OTA and WOW Cable. It is being decoded as DD 5.1, but no rear audio.

I think it is too, and I'm wondering if it's national. I'm still not watching and my rear speakers are charging. Has anyone tried posting thins on http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=34 to see if anyone else is having this problem?

Just to be clear, I'm definitely not telling you to post somewhere else I'm trying to be helpful.:)

I think it's a broadcast problem. I'm getting no surround on ABC via OTA and WOW Cable. It is being decoded as DD 5.1, but no rear audio.

All the local channels are broadcast as "DD 5.1", even when real 5.1 programming is not shown. Some channels(WOIO, WUAB) choose to 'upconvert' to fake surround sound(which sounds like a toilet). Others(WKYC, WBNX and WEWS) pass only L/R sound, even though it is flagged as 3/2.1. According to your time stamp at 1:14, the schedule has a program listed that is not even tagged as HD in my guide. If you were hearing 2 channel only at that time, it was correct.

Is the problem on ABC network programming or local WEWS programming? If it's ABC programming, something is wrong at either WEWS or ABC(probably WEWS). If it's on local programming/syndication, it's not supposed to be surround(unless they're using 'fake' upconvert surround.

EDIT: I just turned on ABC, NBA is on with no surround sound. IMO, I really don't think it's any 'worse' than before.

Last month on a Monday for some reason WOIO had HD with no surround. It was only that day during prime time. I'm a month behind on shows again.

Last month on a Monday for some reason WOIO had HD with no surround. It was only that day during prime time. I'm a month behind on shows again.

I think I remember that. It might have been in March(if you're a month behind). That happens on WOIO sometimes. But if they're broadcasting in color, that alone is a win for WOIO! :rolleyes:

TBS and USA OTA nationally? Well, TBS started out as WTBS then went off the air completely. Why do you suppose they did that? And USA is owned by NBC so I can guarantee that it will stay an exclusive cable network. You could say the same thing about ESPN and you know that will never happen.!
WTBS (FKA WTCG)... off the air?? since when? Still broadcasting OTA on 17, 20-1 DTV last I knew.

See you think of this as a National Network now? Turners old man bought this for Ted in the '70's as a playtoy, was nothing more than what WUAB is. Ted just had the bux to force feed it to the cable industry. IMO it was much better as an Independent station out of Atlanta in the 70's & 80's.


I don't believe any longer that the majority of houses still receive just OTA. I have nothing to support this statement but it seems everybody you run into has either satellite or cable..

So right there bill. I'm one of a few that haven't joined the status-quo, but this will be one household that will be without cable, even if my homeowners association forces the antennas off the roof.

I'm all in favor of OTA people getting all the programming they can get with this technology, but I think "quality" is subject to debate when we look at what this channel offers. The classic movies? Absolutely. Mr. Ed?

Ohhhhhhh Wilber!:)

You don't like Mr Ed? :)

I would much rather watch a pack of indys than the network with garbage infomercials... I miss the days of the late night horror show hosts (that were local, no matter what city I lived in), the romance & nostalga of television is dead, I'll just stick to DVD's.

NBC is still letterbox on TWC, since we are still getting the SD analog version of WKYC. But I'm anxiously awaiting that one going the way of WEWS, so my SDTVs will have a nice 4:3 NBC picture. :D

Looks like I'll get my wish on June 12 or whenever WKYC or NBC quits the analog network feed. Friday Night Lights is on WKYC right now(replay from Indians opening night). 16:9 on WKYC HD, 4:3 on WKYC analog. So I take it nothing is letterbox except network-broadcast programming on the NBC analog feed and the occasional commercial.

There is one program missing from This TV that is seen on virtually every other cable network and OTA station: PAID PROGRAMMING!

Kudos to THIS TV for providing a unique schedule that is 24/7 of ENTERTAINMENT!

Ditto!

But why are the cable networks showing infomercials?? & you're PAYING for this?? (I'm confused here?)

Nope. WUAB has it's own tower at the opposite end of the antenna farm from WOIO. While Raycom has an "LMA" for WUAB the towers for both stations were erected back when they were separate entities. Today, the only tower with multiple TV stations on it is WBNX, which has virtually every LPTV station (35, 53 & 65) farther down the stick. Once it get erected, WKYC and WVIZ will be on the same stick. Today WVIZ is sitting on WKYC's back-up tower, so technically it's not yet sharing the same tower.

Tower-wise: WUAB is next door to WEWS. Both are just north of WJW.
The rest are in a row starting with WKYC on Broadview RD just above Ridgewood DR., with WOIO, WBNX and WQHS behind WKYC and along Ridgewood (btw it's the "Ridgewood Row's" tower lights that illuminate my back yard :D )

What exactly is the Fate of 53, & 65 (35 I do NOT receive at all) after 6/12?

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7632/crimewarnercablesmall.png


Now this is Halarious!!!! :)

If you hate these people that much, why don't you send them a message & get rid of them?

Now this is Halarious!!!! :)

If you hate these people that much, why don't you send them a message & get rid of them?

They're my only option. I've been with D*, hated it. Not into trying E*-seems like it would be more of the same. And OTA, not enough channels for me. Local TV isn't what it once was. Seems almost every weekend there is at least one channel with infomercials all afternoon. At least cable keeps the infomercials on at night! ;)

What exactly is the Fate of 53, & 65 (35 I do NOT receive at all) after 6/12?

I don't think I've ever seen any one of those channels. Except maybe 35, but 29 usually comes in better down here in Akron.

Well, just got the 'free preview' RR upgrade here, a bit earlier than I expected (figured it'd come around 3AM during their usual maintenance windows):
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5764/88080710.th.png (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=88080710.png)

Time to go hog wild for the next 10 days. :D

I'd replace the HD 5030 with a Winegard YA-1713 or a Funke psp.1922, preferably a psp.1922. The gentleman that was selling psp.1922s is sold out, but you may find someone who is willing to sell one if you post in the many OTA forums that are currently on the net. The YA-1713 provides higher gain on channels 7-13 than the HD 5030. Make sure you mount the 91XG at least 4' (preferably 5') above the YA-1713. I'd get rid of the diplexer and run a separate RG6 cable from the antenna system to the television(s). You'll also want to ensure that the 7777's built in FM trap is engaged.

WOIO-DT has been broadcasting in digital on channel 10 and will continue to do so after the transition. WOIO-DT has applied to the FCC to increase its power from 3.5 kW ERP to 10.3 kW ERP post transition. It remains to be seen whether it will receive permission to increase its power. I'm 55 miles from WOIO-DT's transmitter and receive it 24/7 with a YA-1713. Keep in mind, however, that I'm on high ground and have a 55' tower. You'll also want to mount your antenna system as high as possible. WJW is moving its digital signal from channel 31 to channel 8 on June 12th. You should receive WKYC-DT when it moves to channel 17. There is too much electrical interference on channel 2 to receive WKYC-DT over 50 miles from the transmitter.
I installed the YA-1713 this weekend and removed the diplexers as well. Still no luck with woio or wkyc. I guess I just wait now and see if June 12 brings me any good news. I wonder if a letter to the FCC regarding my desire for a new more powerful WOIO would help the cause.

As of today, I am sat free and relying completely on the antenna.

What exactly is the Fate of 53, & 65 (35 I do NOT receive at all) after 6/12?

The digital transition doesn't apply to LPTV stations, so they'll still be there as usual.

(Oops, I see this has been renamed the TWC thread...oh, well, it started here. :D)

Ditto!

But why are the cable networks showing infomercials?? & you're PAYING for this?? (I'm confused here?)

We are paying to receive 200 ch's that we cannot get with an antenna, IOW choice.
You pay for PBS and they also run ads now.

Networks make very little money from subscriptions (cable/sat).
They make their money selling ads and infomercials are 30 minute long ads. Mo money, mo money. :D

Just look at the OTA locals on sat or sun mornings. It's either cartoons or discussions on colon cleanse (with pictures to boot). Enjoy your breakfast. :)

Ditto!

But why are the cable networks showing infomercials?? & you're PAYING for this?? (I'm confused here?)

It's not always the cable network... some of the half hour infomercials are inserted locally, covering the network programming...

WTBS (FKA WTCG)... off the air?? since when? Still broadcasting OTA on 17, 20-1 DTV last I knew.

I think you're talking about "broadcasting" on D* and that probably is true, however I'm referring to the local broadcast. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TBS_(TV_channel)):

TBS is a national cable channel, available throughout the entire United States. Until October 1, 2007, the national TBS feed could not be viewed within its home market of the Atlanta Metropolitan Area, due to the over-the-air presence of WTBS, which carried a nearly identical schedule, plus the required public affairs programming and E/I programming for children.
The operations of WTBS (channel 17) and TBS Superstation were split in October 2007, with the over-the-air channel becoming WPCH-TV, a general-entertainment independent station focused on the Atlanta area only. For the first time, the national TBS feed is available to cable and satellite subscribers within channel 17's viewing area.
Due to a technicality, cable and satellite companies in Canada are only permitted to carry the over-the-air Atlanta station, and therefore most now carry WPCH ("Peachtree TV") instead of the nationwide TBS channel that other American viewers receive.[1] This dated back to prior to the change, when TBS programming was offered to Canadian viewers through WTBS, not the national cable channel. Many cable companies were apparently unaware of the changeover until after it occurred.[2] As a result, should Canadian cable companies wish to air "cable" TBS, it will be several months before the necessary approvals are received

So right there bill. I'm one of a few that haven't joined the status-quo, but this will be one household that will be without cable, even if my homeowners association forces the antennas off the roof.

Howowners associations cannot by law not allow you to have a television antenna on your home. And call me bill again and I'll cyber smack you. ;)

You don't like Mr Ed? :)

Yes, I like Mr. Ed but it's just that I've got other things to watch.:)

I would much rather watch a pack of indys than the network with garbage infomercials... I miss the days of the late night horror show hosts (that were local, no matter what city I lived in), the romance & nostalga of television is dead, I'll just stick to DVD's.

My response is still the same. Right now I have darn near 90 programs on one DVR, and 95% of those are in HD. On my other DVR I have 64 programs about 1/2 are in HD and on top of that I have MLB Extra Innings. So I never see any of that garbage anyway.

In the ex-Adelphia area. Using an SA8300.

I bought one of the 500GB Western Digital 500GB eSata drives from MicroCenter 2 weeks ago (http://*******.com/cf37ea). Has been flawless. I currently have 35 HD recording at 37% capacity, so I'm definitely using the new drive to store. I should be able to get ~90 hours of HD!! Very critical storage now that we have Discovery and SyFy channels.

The only glitch has been that my caller ID has stopped displaying. But if that's the only problem I can live with it.

Hook, I know you had problems with this DVR and adding a drive, but maybe they have the issues worked out.

That's www dot ******* dot com slash cf37ea.

I give up. It keeps getting blocked. "T I N Y U R L"

In the ex-Adelphia area. Using an SA8300.

I bought one of the 500GB Western Digital 500GB eSata drives from MicroCenter 2 weeks ago (http://*******.com/cf37ea). Has been flawless. I currently have 35 HD recording at 37% capacity, so I'm definitely using the new drive to store. I should be able to get ~90 hours of HD!! Very critical storage now that we have Discovery and SyFy channels.

The only glitch has been that my caller ID has stopped displaying. But if that's the only problem I can live with it.

Hook, I know you had problems with this DVR and adding a drive, but maybe they have the issues worked out.

That's www dot ******* dot com slash cf37ea.

I give up. It keeps getting blocked. "T I N Y U R L"

The "issue" I had was shared with many people. At the time the eSATA I bought was built "specifically" to work with SA 8300. The drive worked fine, it's just that the machine failed to record.

As to whether or not it's been fixed you would fine many people who never had a problem in the first place, just like you fine many who did. Even without the eSATA connected I still had recording issues, it just was worst with eSATA connected. Glad it works for you.

I installed the YA-1713 this weekend and removed the diplexers as well. Still no luck with woio or wkyc. I guess I just wait now and see if June 12 brings me any good news. I wonder if a letter to the FCC regarding my desire for a new more powerful WOIO would help the cause.

As of today, I am sat free and relying completely on the antenna.

The YA-1713 will not receive WKYC's digital broadcast unless it is near the transmitter. It is designed to receive channels 7-13. WKYC's digital transmission will remain on channel 2 until the transition is complete and possibly a little longer if WKYC's new tower isn't completed by June 12th. WKYC will move its digital broadcast to channel 17 after WDLI abandons 17 and the new tower is completed. Your 91XG should pick up WKYC then.

Yes, it might help if you write the FCC regarding WOIO's application to increase its power to 10.3 kW.

The DTV.gov site has a nice map service with location of the DTV towers and how to get signals better if anyone has to check it out...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

I just got done reading OMW and I find a reprint of a comment very interesting. It sounds like it comes from someone we know:

I noticed that WEWS has a new on air look for the news. The ugly old "News Channel 5" bug is gone and it has been replaced by a bug that resembles an ABC7 O&O bug(except ours says ABC5). As far as I can tell, they're still calling it "News Channel 5" (unfortunately) when talking about the news shows.

Fess up nickdawg, that's you isn't it?

What exactly is the Fate of 53, & 65 (35 I do NOT receive at all) after 6/12?
I find it hard to believe you can get 53 & 65 but not 35. 35 is the strongest of the 3 (and the highest on the tower too IIRC). I can see the tower from my back door and 65 is very snowy (let it snow, it's only HSC).

Some, if not all the above have applied for DTV channels (one is on 44 IIRC). In any event, those who only have analog equipment will still be able to watch these 3 stations after June 12th, at least for awhile. Ultimately 65 has to move (perhaps they are the one with a ch 44 application) and 53 too. 35 can stay where they are, as that is still in the "core" of TV channels, 53 just missed the cut by one channel (52 is the highest "core" channel).

With a little less than one week until new TWC HD, how's the SDV status? Are you seeing SDV yet in your area? Anybody else still not have SDV? TWC better step on it!! ;)

But seriously how cool is this? I remember a few years back one or two new channels a year was a huge event. And now we get to experience that feeling once a month...with at least seven channels!! :D:D:cool:

With a little less than one week until new TWC HD, how's the SDV status? Are you seeing SDV yet in your area? Anybody else still not have SDV? TWC better step on it!! ;)

But seriously how cool is this? I remember a few years back one or two new channels a year was a huge event. And now we get to experience that feeling once a month...with at least seven channels!! :D:D:cool:

OK, Mr. Negativity here.

SDV: No signs of life. If nobody else reports it we gotta think it's just in Inundated's area out of his head end. I'm thinking maybe they had some problems to deal with and that's slowing things down. However the email I received said we would be switching to the new On Demand throughout the months of April and May and I am ASS U MNING that is running in coherence with SDV. If this is true, does TW now have enough bandwith to support 7 new channels.

Don't forget it said "On or after" again on the last HD announcement so a problem with delivering or activating SDV could push the date back, I believe it was 4/26/09.

And I got to correct you nickdawg Jassoe said it would be 5 a month, not 7. I imagine that number can expand or decrease from time to time.

I really want MLBnet, this week the Dodgers are on Thursay and I'd love to watch the game in HD.

Something has happened today in our area. (Strongsville/N. Royalton/Hinckley) My wife told me over the phone this morning that we are missing a lot of channels. Even normal ones that were not supposed to go SDV were lost on all sets. Will reset the cable cards when I get home to see if anything has changed. We were getting all the new HDTV channels just fine... maybe the SDV demons have come to take them away.

I'm reading some stuff in the TiVo S3 thread about SDV that sounds kind of interesting. They are talking TiVo but I think same rules would apply no matter what STB or DVR you have. Check this out:

I think that you may not understand digital cable. In the bandwidth consumed by a single analog channel, a 38.8 Mbps MPEG Transport Stream is transmitted which can contain 2 or 3 HD channels, up to 10 standard def channels, or some arbitrary combination of high- and standard-def. If reception of one is screwed up then all of them will be screwed up. In my case, the affected band contains two HD channels (Fox and PBS) and a standard-def VOD preview loop--I can't tune any of them through a cable split with the TA.

If you've got interference with reception of a band allocated to switched broadcasts, it could potentially block reception of any of the SDV channels. If you tune an SDV channel, one time it might fall in the affected stream and the next time you tune it the same channel might have been placed in another stream in a band free of interference.
__________________
-- Mike Scott

I'm wondering if this isn't what's going on with some of the SDV issues we have seen.

I'm reading some stuff in the TiVo S3 thread about SDV that sounds kind of interesting. They are talking TiVo but I think same rules would apply no matter what STB or DVR you have. Check this out:

I think that you may not understand digital cable. In the bandwidth consumed by a single analog channel, a 38.8 Mbps MPEG Transport Stream is transmitted which can contain 2 or 3 HD channels, up to 10 standard def channels, or some arbitrary combination of high- and standard-def. If reception of one is screwed up then all of them will be screwed up. In my case, the affected band contains two HD channels (Fox and PBS) and a standard-def VOD preview loop--I can't tune any of them through a cable split with the TA.

If you've got interference with reception of a band allocated to switched broadcasts, it could potentially block reception of any of the SDV channels. If you tune an SDV channel, one time it might fall in the affected stream and the next time you tune it the same channel might have been placed in another stream in a band free of interference.
__________________
-- Mike Scott

I'm wondering if this isn't what's going on with some of the SDV issues we have seen.

Is that you Hook, or just a quote? Because it sounds like I have the same thing Mike Scott has. It seems to be a certain frequency and the channels affected by it vary when tuned.

Is that you Hook, or just a quote? Because it sounds like I have the same thing Mike Scott has. It seems to be a certain frequency and the channels affected by it vary when tuned.

That's Mike Scott and it was because of what you posted I decided to bring it over here.

Yes, it does sound EXACTLY like what you have. And that's not good news for us. Apparently you are right, the technology is not as good as it sounded.

That's Mike Scott and it was because of what you posted I decided to bring it over here.

Yes, it does sound EXACTLY like what you have. And that's not good news for us. Apparently you are right, the technology is not as good as it sounded.

Has your area seen SDV yet?

Since other people in other areas(I assume Mike Scott is not from Ohio) are seeing the same problem, I wonder where the issue lies? Is it in individual lines, taps, nodes? Is there more of an issue with this than TWC is letting us know about?

That's what I've been saying, this technology really sucks so far. I've been busy lately, but I decided I am going to make time this week to walk into TWC and ask about this. Also, my 8300HD is totally fraked beyond belief, so that's a motivator! ;)

Wow, Hookbill admitted I was right! :eek:

Has your area seen SDV yet?

Since other people in other areas(I assume Mike Scott is not from Ohio) are seeing the same problem, I wonder where the issue lies? Is it in individual lines, taps, nodes? Is there more of an issue with this than TWC is letting us know about?

That's what I've been saying, this technology really sucks so far. I've been busy lately, but I decided I am going to make time this week to walk into TWC and ask about this. Also, my 8300HD is totally fraked beyond belief, so that's a motivator! ;)

Wow, Hookbill admitted I was right! :eek:

Mike lives in the San Diego area if I recall correctly. And no, there is no sign of SDV in my area. Thankfully.

The bad channel whatever one it is affects all channels so lets say they have a problem digital channel on the same frequency. That would really screw up the HD channels assigned to SDV within that same frequency.. And that channel will stay on that frequency until it has a shut down which would be when nobody was looking at it or at least a small amount of people. Then the channel would change frequency and deliver it's problems elsewhere. But if it's a popular channel that has the problem then it would stay on that same frequency, thus continuing to affect any other channels that happen to join in.

I hope I haven't over explained but that's what I got out of it.

I think we need to invite Mr. Scott over here to Cleveland-TWC for more info on this. I can only hope the problem will be fixed once more channels appear on SDV. And 7 are coming next week.

I think we need to invite Mr. Scott over here to Cleveland-TWC for more info on this. I can only hope the problem will be fixed once more channels appear on SDV. And 7 are coming next week.

OK, maybe I didn't explain it well. You can look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16319966&postcount=5517) and see what you get out of it.;)

Anyone seen any TWC copy-protection weirdness today ? Still no sign of SDV here, but my Tivo HD refused to record ("not authorized") a program off one of my Digital Tier channels that was previously fine this evening. I'm hoping this is a one-off glitch as it now seems to be able to record the same channel manually, but thought it might be worth a heads-up/comparing notes.

Anyone seen any TWC copy-protection weirdness today ? Still no sign of SDV here, but my Tivo HD refused to record ("not authorized") a program off one of my Digital Tier channels that was previously fine this evening. I'm hoping this is a one-off glitch as it now seems to be able to record the same channel manually, but thought it might be worth a heads-up/comparing notes.
What channel? How can we help without the channel?


Go back to that channel. Messages & settings/account & system info/dvr diag. Find the channel on that screen and look at cc byte. 0x01 is copy freely. 0x02 copy once. 0x03 copy never.

I left a little present in the Tivo thread! ;)

I was gonna post something in regards to this SDV pixelization funny business and this seemingly newfound change of complaint directed towards the technology itself, but the technical side of my brain took over and figured current company would just pass over the post.

But needless to say, you guys have to realize that SDV is still in it's infancy. We are fairly lucky (or unlucky if you see the glass half empty in terms of a lack of bandwidth) that we are the first of a small handful of cableco-agnostic SDV testbeds to get access to this technology. As with any technology that is as new as this, it's gonna have it's bugs. While I'm of the firm stance that SDV itself is not the cause of all the gripe for some here (I still have 0 issues whatsoever in this area with the new SDV offerings. *shrug* Of course, I have also not had a single 'bug' with my Navigator equipment ever since we got upgraded last Spring. This is with both an SA8000 MDN box and the current 8300HDC ODN box.), but indirectly a cause with the combination of equipment that is involved to get this all rolling. And about the only way to get anything done is to keep at jumping on TWC about the problems. Use the Fry card, dig for a tier 3 tech, etc.. So far that has been made aware of in this thread, you have done ample research on your own for all the relevant details to the issue. Make it clearly known to them.



On a completely different note after reading both this thread and the 'Time Warner Cable Navigator' thread on this same forum, either I am having some weird love-hate kind of relationship with TWC or people complaining about all these problems with Navigator, these SA boxes, or signal related issues (such as nickdawg's SDV problems) are just fooling themselves into thinking their setup is perfect and pristine when it's really not.

Here's the gist: Most STB issues are signal related. Between of random box reboots and missed recordings from 'Channel Unavailable' messages and other various tuning issues are all caused by low signal to your box. ie: Low receive SNR, high transmit, out of spec downstream (reaching beyond +15 or -15db with 0db being 'good').

In my situation my signal isn't 'best' by any means, but well within spec all through the given 850mhz of bandwidth. And before I had moved the tv to the opposite side of the room where it is now I had a much shorter line to the box and the signal was even better then. Never had a problem yet, period. I have had the occasional VOD channel issue and not being able to start programming, but that's a result of all the VOD channels being in use, not signal. Same can be said for SDV programming for the identical issue.

My aunt used to have a NASTY cable run in her apartment and had all kinds of issues. All kinds of channels a pixeliating mess, HSI/phone spotty, STB reboots, missed recordings, the whole nine yards. I recently helped her move her entertainment stand and in the process replaced the obscenely long and ancient cable she was using to the box with something short and brand new and that GREATLY improved the signal and so far none of the issues have cropped up like they used to.

Please people. If you have bugs like these: Check your signal on the box from both it's current location and directly off the first split from the pole drop. If it's perfect off the first split, figure out a way to improve it past that point. If it's still bad at that split, complain to Time Warner and explain why and get them to fix it. That simple.

I left a little present in the Tivo thread! ;)

I know. I saw. I didn't say you could post there.;)

Chat SDV has been around for over 2 years and in fact we have been delayed n getting it. Columbus had it before us. Its hardly in it
Infancy.

I know. I saw. I didn't say you could post there.;)

I know. Who would have ever thought I would be posting in the tivo topic? It's crazy!! :cool:;):p

I have had the TA and SDV for two weeks with no abnormal pixelation. It works better than I expected. So far the only problem I have had is sometimes the TA adapter reboots and the TiVo requires a reboot to re-sync. If I don't catch it on time I will miss recordings on SDV channels. It is fairly easy to spot when this happens because the TA will have a constant blinking light. Fortunately, most of the SDV channels tend to repeat the shows so the TiVo will pick it up later. Given the other choice (No TA and not getting any SDV channels) I will take the TA.

I have had the TA and SDV for two weeks with no abnormal pixelation. It works better than I expected. So far the only problem I have had is sometimes the TA adapter reboots and the TiVo requires a reboot to re-sync. If I don't catch it on time I will miss recordings on SDV channels. It is fairly easy to spot when this happens because the TA will have a constant blinking light. Fortunately, most of the SDV channels tend to repeat the shows so the TiVo will pick it up later. Given the other choice (No TA and not getting any SDV channels) I will take the TA.

Have you tried unpluging TA and rebooting that instead of TiVo?

Have you tried unpluging TA and rebooting that instead of TiVo?

I've had the same issue a few times since getting my TA. One the TA goes, the TiVo seems to forget the TA exists until it (TiVo) is rebooted. Haven't tried pulling/inserting the USB cable while everything is working yet - wondering if it will do the same thing...

The TiVo *really* needs a "scan for TA" on the diagnostic screens, not just the "If you had one of these boxes, nifty stuff would happen" screen.

I've found that when rebooting the whole mess due to a goofed-up TA, you have much better luck rebooting the TA first, waiting about 30 seconds, then rebooting the TiVo.

Hopefully a software update will fix some of these issues.

I've had the same issue a few times since getting my TA. One the TA goes, the TiVo seems to forget the TA exists until it (TiVo) is rebooted. Haven't tried pulling/inserting the USB cable while everything is working yet - wondering if it will do the same thing...



From what I've seen I believe it will. Give it a try next time, may cut down on the amount of time it takes to get it going.

No SDV for me yet.

Apparently TW is upset about one city offering internet speed that blows theirs away for same amount of money and are trying to get a law passed to prevent it. Look here (http://digg.com/d1pOme).

Apologies about the off topic. Nods to nickdawg for coming up with the clever slogan.

Wow, just when I thought this SDV thing was a major pain in the ass for me, I see all these comments about Tivo and the "tuning adapters". And the tuning adapters needing to be rebooted and flashing lights and missing recordings because the box isn't working.

Remember how pissed I originally was when TWC was sued over SDV? That opinion has changed. I think TWC should be sued over this garbage. Or at the very least we should get the HDTV tier for free or less since the channels are SDV.

Apparently TW is upset about one city offering internet speed that blows theirs away for same amount of money and are trying to get a law passed to prevent it. Look here (http://digg.com/d1pOme).

Apologies about the off topic. Nods to nickdawg for coming up with the clever slogan.

It's not off topic anymore. This is the Cleveland TWC thread. ;)

Thanks for the article. Another reason why I'm happy my ISP is not TWC. But it is no surprise that the TWC monopoly would try to squash any competitor, as the only qualification for being better than TWC is the company NOT being TWC. I remember reading something that TWC wants to charge based on the amount of bandwidth used. Which sounds like a back door way to limit online TV viewing or BT downloading. AFAIC, they can have their crappy service.

Crime Warner Cable: The Power to Screw You

Remember how pissed I originally was when TWC was sued over SDV? That opinion has changed. I think TWC should be sued over this garbage. Or at the very least we should get the HDTV tier for free or less since the channels are SDV.

Oh, so you are admitting you were wrong.;):p Now you know why everybody was so upset and it's not just TiVo people.

TW got sued because at that time they didn't have the tuner adapters. This is the first I've heard about how they actually work, and yes, I'm concerned but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

I don't look at the TiVo Forum anymore so I have no idea what they are talking about there in regards to SDV. I'll have to peak in and take a look.

It's not off topic anymore. This is the Cleveland TWC thread. ;)


So it is. When did that happen?

Oh, so you are admitting you were wrong.;):p Now you know why everybody was so upset and it's not just TiVo people.

TW got sued because at that time they didn't have the tuner adapters. This is the first I've heard about how they actually work, and yes, I'm concerned but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

I don't look at the TiVo Forum anymore so I have no idea what they are talking about there in regards to SDV. I'll have to peak in and take a look.

"Wrong" is an understatement about this. It was hyped as something that was supposed to be so great and "you can't even tell which channels are SDV". But this faulty, flawed technology is terrible. And even worse for the Tivo people with the extra box.

Also, going by earlier comments, SDV is NOT new. It has been around at least 2 years in some TWC markets plus testing before that.

On another note, I think it is about time for CWC to seriously screw analog-only customers. Give THEM the "new SDV technology". Force THEM to use "tuning adapters" with blinking lights, unavailable messages and breaking up picture. Reclaim that bandwidth wasted on analog and use it for more HD.

No SDV for me yet.

I'm really getting worried. The weekend is approaching and TWC is supposed to be assing those new channels next Wednesday. I get the feeling your SDV experience won't be a good one, since they'll be starting SDV broadcasting a few minutes before the new channels. If there's problems here after all the time they spent on this, I can't imagine how much worse things could be.

I'm really getting worried. The weekend is approaching and TWC is supposed to be assing those new channels next Wednesday. I get the feeling your SDV experience won't be a good one, since they'll be starting SDV broadcasting a few minutes before the new channels. If there's problems here after all the time they spent on this, I can't imagine how much worse things could be.

From the TWC notice:
On or after April 29, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family,

On or after April 29, 2009 the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier: ESPN News and MLB

Today is the 23. That's 6 full days, and even then remember it's on or after. No guarantee on the date.

One more thing we really don't have any idea how much bandwith TW has available really. They could very well add those channels without SDV for all we know.

As an aside. Last night my 8300HD would not receive local HD channels for channel 5 and 19. Just a blank screen , no message or anything.
TWC former ADelphia

As an aside. Last night my 8300HD would not receive local HD channels for channel 5 and 19. Just a blank screen , no message or anything.
TWC former ADelphia

That is not an aside, that is a problem in my book.

Just to let you know I successfully recorded 3 shows last night, 2 on WEWS and 1 on WOIO, so maybe you had some problems at your head end.

SDV should not interfere with local broadcast.

That is not an aside, that is a problem in my book.

Just to let you know I successfully recorded 3 shows last night, 2 on WEWS and 1 on WOIO, so maybe you had some problems at your head end.

SDV should not interfere with local broadcast.

Maybe it is the box? Of course I say this since my SA8300 screwed the pooch and won't even go past the third block on the boot screen. Before that, it missed recordings frequently, more often in the past month than it used to. And it was perfect under Passport and Navigator in the early days.

Maybe it is the box? Of course I say this since my SA8300 screwed the pooch and won't even go past the third block on the boot screen. Before that, it missed recordings frequently, more often in the past month than it used to. And it was perfect under Passport and Navigator in the early days.

Arn't you planning on returning that thing for another? Isn't that the point?

I can't believe you're talking so negatively about the SA 8300. Indeed you have come full circle now on both SDV and the SA 8300.

And then you reveal that it was missing recordings! Hmmm. That sounds familiar.:D

Anyone seen any TWC copy-protection weirdness today ? Still no sign of SDV here, but my Tivo HD refused to record ("not authorized") a program off one of my Digital Tier channels that was previously fine this evening. I'm hoping this is a one-off glitch as it now seems to be able to record the same channel manually, but thought it might be worth a heads-up/comparing notes.

Mercifully this (on 109/BBC) seems to have been a one-off glitch, have not been able to reproduce the problem. Phew.

Channel 5 has a new bug. It must have started some time this week, as it still said "news channel 5" when I watched on Saturday after the game. I like the new bug, it looks very ABC O&O like. And I have a thing for network/O&O branding. Very nice, 5. Good Job!!

Also over at 5, Ted Henry is retiring. Hard to believe, he just announced it out of nowhere yesterday. May 20 is supposed to be his last day.

My thoughts, I hope he takes Duhhhhh-Neeeeta with him. I'd really love to see Kim Gill from the morning show move to the evenings. She's a fantastic anchor not being used to her potential in the morning. And for a guy, I'd like to see WEWS woo Eric Mansfield over to 5. WKYC has really jerked him around lately, dumping the Akron Canton news and now the 7pm show is ruined with Carole Chandler gone. Eric Mansfield and Kimberly Gill would make a great team at 5 and restore professional, serious news. Or, and this is really out there, but hire Tim White. WKYC tossed him aside like yesterday's trash, bring him to WEWS. That, along with a re-branding(I'm thinking "Eyewetness News") would shoot WEWS far out of the basement they're currently in.

Gotta say, this channel keeps impressing me. Just a few back, I was constantly dogging on WEWS with all their technical problems. But they have really 360'ed in the last few weeks. The black line is gone, the HD channel has been glitch free and they have some cool, new graphics and HD commercials. If you look at the ABC/evening news commercials, the sidebars actually say: "WEWS HD" on the right and "TONIGHT" on the left.

Oh yeah, and Abby Hamm is leaving WKYC morning. Can the week get any better? :D

Well, I asked a CSR at the local payment office today during a small jaunt for other reasons if they had the new Samsung boxes in yet. Apparently not. Said they were still being given the SA boxes to hand to customers. (This is something that I -will- trust them on since they'd actually get them in their hands.)

Not that I'm surprised, but crossing my fingers for the 320GB version to hit the area here. HD material just hogs the 140GB or so of 'usable' space on the 8300HDC. :D

Well, I asked a CSR at the local payment office today during a small jaunt for other reasons if they had the new Samsung boxes in yet. Apparently not. Said they were still being given the SA boxes to hand to customers. (This is something that I -will- trust them on since they'd actually get them in their hands.)

Not that I'm surprised, but crossing my fingers for the 320GB version to hit the area here. HD material just hogs the 140GB or so of 'usable' space on the 8300HDC. :D
We still don't have SDV. I think it will be a while before you see that box.

Well, I asked a CSR at the local payment office today during a small jaunt for other reasons if they had the new Samsung boxes in yet. Apparently not. Said they were still being given the SA boxes to hand to customers. (This is something that I -will- trust them on since they'd actually get them in their hands.)

Not that I'm surprised, but crossing my fingers for the 320GB version to hit the area here. HD material just hogs the 140GB or so of 'usable' space on the 8300HDC. :D

Calm down, the Sammy is not as great as we thought it would be. The biggest problem with the 3090 is that all of the graphics are S T R E T C H E D, regardless of how aspect ratio/output formats are set. It's supposed to be capable of 16:9 graphics, but since ODN is not capable of 16:9 graphics, they are stretched for whatever reason. Also, it is really bad with missing recordings. Like the way the SA boxes were before ODN3. The stretched graphics alone are enough for me to NEVER want a Samsung box. It would drive me insane. And the reliability issues make it even more of a no go.

We still don't have SDV. I think it will be a while before you see that box.

And we're supposed to get HD channels next week. Wow, thanks TWC! I think I need to dig up that image again! :D:D

I don't understand how the sound can be so bad on a digital channel. Watching Dodger game it sounds like crap.

I don't understand how the sound can be so bad on a digital channel. Watching Dodger game it sounds like crap.

Which channel? MLB TV?

PQ/SQ can be horrible on digital channels, depending on how the signal is being output from the source or how the channel is encoded. If the channel is packed on with limited bandwidth or on a overcroded QAM, it can suffer.

My favorite example are the three crap channels that are WVIZ multicast. Look at 363, 364 and 365. It's apparent, especially on 365 that the bandwidth is stretched thin. PQ is terrible.

It's like an MP3, digital can be encoded at a low bitrate, and the sound quality is ass.

Which channel? MLB TV?

PQ/SQ can be horrible on digital channels, depending on how the signal is being output from the source or how the channel is encoded. If the channel is packed on with limited bandwidth or on a overcroded QAM, it can suffer.

My favorite example are the three crap channels that are WVIZ multicast. Look at 363, 364 and 365. It's apparent, especially on 365 that the bandwidth is stretched thin. PQ is terrible.

It's like an MP3, digital can be encoded at a low bitrate, and the sound quality is ass.

It was on MLB EXTRA Innings. Dolby Pro Logic II couldn't translate anything into the back speakers sounded like all sound was coming out of front speaker only. I can only describe it as a "tin can" sound.

Calm down, the Sammy is not as great as we thought it would be. The biggest problem with the 3090 is that all of the graphics are S T R E T C H E D, regardless of how aspect ratio/output formats are set. It's supposed to be capable of 16:9 graphics, but since ODN is not capable of 16:9 graphics, they are stretched for whatever reason. Also, it is really bad with missing recordings. Like the way the SA boxes were before ODN3. The stretched graphics alone are enough for me to NEVER want a Samsung box. It would drive me insane. And the reliability issues make it even more of a no go.

Hey. You guys are the ones having all the problems. My box works 100% perfectly. :p The stretched guide is only a minor issue I can deal with in light of the positive aspects of the box.

Which channel? MLB TV?

PQ/SQ can be horrible on digital channels, depending on how the signal is being output from the source or how the channel is encoded. If the channel is packed on with limited bandwidth or on a overcroded QAM, it can suffer.

My favorite example are the three crap channels that are WVIZ multicast. Look at 363, 364 and 365. It's apparent, especially on 365 that the bandwidth is stretched thin. PQ is terrible.

It's like an MP3, digital can be encoded at a low bitrate, and the sound quality is ass.

I doubt it is that, tbh. While it is possible, it is rare especially for the audio to sound like absolute crap unless they are pulling more sh*t on you guys up there in ex-adelphia land (even on the lowliest of digital channels, my experience has been the incoming audio for 2ch audio at the lowest comes in at 160kbps 48khz, 20khz bandpassed per channel, AC3. Which is -roughly- on par to mp3 at the same rate give or take. That will only sound like crap if the source is crap to begin with.)

More than likely it is the source. Probably wherever they are getting their feed from at the game.