430-431 and others still out

The "brickyard's" just beginning......looks freaking [not] great on SD

At 10:45 am on ESPNHD we have a gray screen. This is not an SDV channel, of course. Maybe it's spreading, who knows.

I get gray screen about once a month on all my channels, but I still have sound. I have to reboot the box to get rid of it.

Message on TW CSR says if you're calling about a black or a blue screen on a HD or digital channel they are aware....

How about a grey screen, that's what I got. This has got to mean they are having more SDV problems.

I get gray screen about once a month on all my channels, but I still have sound. I have to reboot the box to get rid of it.

That would be a good suggestion if I was just getting it on one box, but remember I have two TiVo's and a SA 8300. There is a black screen on the SA 8300, and just how often am I expected to reboot this damn thing.;)

Grey screen on TiVo = black screen on SA 8300.

This is in line with what the message said at TW and it isn't just ESPN. There is a whole bunch of channels out right now. Matter of fact the only thing working for sure right now is SDV.:eek::eek:

grey screen, that's what I got.

ditto on the grey


Been sporadic on the 400's all week. Lots of pixel'ing
and freezing.

I tell you as bad as service has been this week TiVo or not if I had a direct line of sight I'd be over on Direct TV. How can this be possible that this poor quality of service continues? I don't care if they have to purchase all new equipment this is just so sorry.

I haven't done a Dear Steve Fry letter in some time. Maybe I should.

How can this be possible that this poor quality of service continues?

Honestly, i've had 99.99% [cable/net/phone] up time the past 7-8 years. A couple hiccups during the swap-over.....but nothing nearly as bad as the past week.

Our pole run on Ceder Rd's all new, as is the CMT's and everything else from pole to house.


HOOK - what's the PQ you're getting currently on 301 please ? Mine's simply horrible

Honestly, i've had 99.99% [cable/net/phone] up time the past 7-8 years. A couple hiccups during the swap-over.....but nothing nearly as bad as the past week.

Our pole run on Ceder Rd's all new as is the CMT's and everything else from pole to house.

I get my internet and television from them. Prior to this television issue that we are experiencing I went through a good two week period of internet problems out of nowheres. They came out and laid out a new cable for me for my internet and television. That seemed to solve my internet problem.

Since last Wednesday however on the television side I've seen numerous problems. I don't know how bad it was in your area but around here we had a total loss of all SDV channels, including MLB Extra Innings that I subscribe to. Sure I got a 4 day refund, but that's only because I bitch and complain. I can just imagine the number of people who just took it silently and hoped it would get fixed. Everybody in my area should get a 4 day refund.

And with today I guess you can make that a 5 day refund. TW has just been awful as of late. And the majority of the problems has to do with SDV.

I'm hoping to watch a game at 4:00 pm. Notice I said hoping because who knows if I'll even have a picture? We shouldn't have to feel like that we should have confidence in the service.

My bro-n-law lives in the sub-division across the street from Church of Holy Angels. He's got the same issue as you with Baseball [premium]

Seriously tho...... this is truly the 1st time wev'e had HD problems. Watching old school cable just sux azz.......horrible

Don't know all the channels this is affecting but I see in the HD range TBS, ESPN, ESPN2, HGTV. Looks like MLB Extra Innings is fine.

Discovery HD and TLC HD were unavailable earlier today which ruined my chance of watching Cronkite Remembers in its entirety

Discovery HD and TLC HD were unavailable earlier today which ruined my chance of watching Cronkite Remembers in its entirety

That's interesting. They are both SDV. Just checked TLC is available. Did you get the channel not available meaaage?

At 10:45 am on ESPNHD we have a gray screen. This is not an SDV channel, of course. Maybe it's spreading, who knows.

Oh My God!!! Is the SDV virus spreading to ESPNHD now? One thing I remember from when I thought SDV was a good thing is that heavily viewed channels usually are not put on SDV. That's why I assumed regular ESPN would never be on SDV and I didn't expect USA to be SDV either. I was worried there wouldn't be enough "slots" but it seems you could be the only TV on the node and there still won't be a slot. This system is flawed and I think TWC is in a worse place now than they were a year ago.

I'd call Carl Monday. :D:D:D

That's interesting. They are both SDV. Just checked TLC is available. Did you get the channel not available meaaage?

They eventually showed up again after a good 20 minutes of channel not available message

Oh My God!!! Is the SDV virus spreading to ESPNHD now? One thing I remember from when I thought SDV was a good thing is that heavily viewed channels usually are not put on SDV. That's why I assumed regular ESPN would never be on SDV and I didn't expect USA to be SDV either. I was worried there wouldn't be enough "slots" but it seems you could be the only TV on the node and there still won't be a slot. This system is flawed and I think TWC is in a worse place now than they were a year ago.

I'd call Carl Monday. :D:D:D

Just so there is no misunderstanding neither ESPN or ESPN2 HD are now on SDV. According to the letter I received they will not be going to SDV, at least not on August 18. ESPN U, ESPN Classic, and ESPNews are going SDV.

TW epic FAIL Sunday continues. Seems they managed to have everything working for prime time but all the channels that were down earlier are down again.

I tried flipping to some various SDV channels about an hour or so ago but no dice.

In my area all locals and SDV HD and digital channels are working. If you're having issues with SDV you should call it in. Just hoping it comes back won't solve your problem.

After some careful indoor antenna tricks, I was finally able to get more than a heartbeat out of WKBN DT. I doesn't always work strong and reliable, but I have been able to see picture and sound on it. I cannot believe it. WKBN is like a network O&O compared to WOIO. Their news isn't HD but they have HD syndication of ET and CSI:NY, which is the same as the Cleveland stations. But the very fact that WKBN can show syndicated HD and and the Cleveland CBS cannot is pathetic. The newscast is 100% better quality than WOIO, even though it is not HD. The graphics are far superior to WOIO. And the programming is better. WOIO has infomercials all night on weekends and even at 7-8pm on Saturday. WKBN does not. WOIO looks like a backwoods station somewhere in a 150-200+ market, not the number 15 market. The talent stinks. You'd think a bigger market has better talent, that's not true at WOIO. I wish that shitstain pathetic excuse of a TV station would just throw in the towel and sign off forever. Let WUAB's DT channel become a repeater for WKBN.

Getting back on topic, trials and tribulations continue for TW. As of this writing the HD channels are intermittent at best. I'm going to send a not to OMW and see if he's got anything on this.

I called TWC this morning as well and they had no idea there was a problem.:rolleyes: She rebooted the box and sent an addressable hit out to my SA 8300 which caused it to temporarily lose SDV channels, but they came right back on.

Well all has been ok here so far since my last posting, knock on wood.

I think sometime tonight I should go through and make a list of current SDV channels. Cause I don't think anyone even knows the FULL list other than TWC techs.

Well all has been ok here so far since my last posting, knock on wood.

I think sometime tonight I should go through and make a list of current SDV channels. Cause I don't think anyone even knows the FULL list other than TWC techs.

Well, when I got up at 7:00 am the same HD channels were down. SDV channels, SD and HD appeared to be working. No message on CSR line so I let call through. The "helpful" CSR was happy to work with my SA 8300 but said, "I can't do nothin' about those cable card things." I said yes you can and told her I would step her through it. She then sent a hit out the the SA 8300 and it rebooted. After reboot the SDV channels were gone along with the regular HD channels that there was a problem with.

Rather then have her deal with my TiVo's I called my contact at TW and she sent a hit out to the SA 8300. When she did it the SA 8300 started downloading firmware for some reason. 10 minutes later everything was back on.

I told her about the problems over the weekend and she was totally unaware of any issues at all. I said well, there was a message on the CSR line saying there were issues so unless my imaginations gone wild something had to have been wrong.

Anyway since that time everything has been working. Hope it stays that way.

Although I'm still going through the list here, I did notice one strange but welcomed oddity: USAHD is apparently out of the SDV pool here and into normal broadcast. I flipped between STOHD, Discovery HD, and USA HD with the diag panel up and USAHD always goes back to 'NON SDV' status.

I'll have a full list of SDV channels here once I can go through the whole channel lineup and see what's what.

Although I'm still going through the list here, I did notice one strange but welcomed oddity: USAHD is apparently out of the SDV pool here and into normal broadcast. I flipped between STOHD, Discovery HD, and USA HD with the diag panel up and USAHD always goes back to 'NON SDV' status.

I'll have a full list of SDV channels here once I can go through the whole channel lineup and see what's what.

Let me take a look at that channel as well for my part of the world. I'm not sure where to look on the diagnostic page but hopefully I'll find it.

Vchat20 can you tell me what diagnostic screen to look at and what specifically I'm looking for. I'm lost. I checked out the SDV area but I haven't a clue at what to look for.

Well on the ODN boxes it's under the Navigator diagnostic which you get from holding the select button on the remote til the mail light flashes then hit the down arrow button and it's under Page 8. At the bottom it has 'Primary Tuner State' and 'Secondary Tuner State'. Both of those will switch between 'Inactive' (If you do not subscribe to that channel), 'NON SDV' (Obvious), and 'SDV' (again, obvious) as you change the channels.

For MDN I dunno how to find that out but I assume it's in a very similar location. The page on my ODN box has the title 'Switch Digital Video' if it helps any.

Also, I just finished compiling a list of SDV channels I have found here. Dunno if it's the same across our region (though I'd assume it would be).
185 - SAH
186 - CRNST
187 - ONTV4U
190 - FRONT
191 - CSHPad
192 - TVSS
193 - LIQUID
212 - LRW
223 - CHILL
227 - LOGO
329 - G4
330 - TOC
375 - CCTV9
391 - TBN
432 - ESNWH
434 - ESPNUHD
438 - MLBHD
439 - GLF HD
440 - VSHD
449 - DSCHD
450 - TLCHD
451 - SCIHD
452 - APLHD
453 - NGCHD
454 - TRAVHD
456 - DSNHD
460 - FAMHD
463 - LMNHD
464 - AMCHD
466 - BRVHD
469 - PALHD
476 - SYFHD
478 - FXHD
480 - SPDHD
483 - CNNHD
485 - FNCHD
486 - CNBCH
868 - SHOPP

I noticed that STOHD also disappeared from the SDV pool in addition to USAHD. Maybe they are finally listening to common sense and putting more constantly viewed channels back into normal broadcast?

I think STO is still SDV. I couldn't find what you were looking at but last week when I had all my problems with SDV STO was one of the channels I frequently went to check. I think USA is still SDV too for the same reason, unless there were changes made as recent as last week.

Further I don't see STO as a full time not a SDV channel. USA perhaps. But then again we are not on the same system so it's hard for me to say.

My diagnostic screen has 3 screens concerning SDV and I couldn't see any changes even when tuning to a known SDV channel like TLC.

Tivo has a diagnostic for the tuner adapter and it has the same 3 SDV screens, it also list SARA so I doubt I could see anything over there. I can't really observe a change as I would have to get out of the diagnostic screen to change channels.

That is the same thing that made me wonder too is I had the same issues as you guys last week and both STO and USA HD channels constantly popped up with the 'This channel unavailable' message. But I have it on good authority that this diag page with the specific 'NON SDV' and 'SDV' status messages is about as accurate as you can get.

Two possible explanations come to mind: 1) With the sudden onslaught of last weeks issues, they are coming around and putting some of the more regularly watched channels that are in SDV back into regular broadcast to bypass any future SDV-triggered issues. Or 2) They have somehow found a way to selectively switch channels between regular broadcast and SDV depending on system activity? (this is probably quite a stretch and unlikely, but who knows)

Maybe someone else with an ODN box (nickdawg?) can come in and confirm this on those two channels?

When I tune in a SDV channel there is a unique event that happens. First a long pause before the picture pops us followed with picture and sound then a 1 second sound drop off. And I'm still seeing that on USA. This is all via TiVo and tuner adapter.

Hook, ESPN HD also does the split-second-sound-drop-out on my TiVo and it is not on SDV.

Also, here is how to get to the diagnostic menu for checking SDV vs. Non-SDV channels: (For a TiVo S3 in North Canton anyways, I hope it is the same for you legacy Adelphia and TiVo HD folks.)

TiVo Central
Messages & Settings
Account & System Information
Tuning Adapter
Tuning Adapter Diagnostics
SDV Session Info

It is divided into Session 1 and Session 2 (1 per tuner). Under each session is Name-Status. If it states "Ready" and 2 lines down (Type) it states "switched" then it is SDV.

Non SDV channels have status of "Idle" and type is "Broadcast."

USA HD is also non-SDV in my area.

When I try to access my OnDemand channels, I get a message that they are unavailable, and the screen displays:
Error 1207
8618

Can anybody translate that?

I should also add a note about my list above: That does not include premium channels since I am not subscribed to them. This includes stuff like the movie channels, subscription sports channels, and others. If anyone is subscribed and wants to add to that list, go ahead.

When I try to access my OnDemand channels, I get a message that they are unavailable, and the screen displays:
Error 1207
8618

Can anybody translate that?

Sure.

"Something's busted."

:)

Sure.

"Something's busted."

:)

No, that's Error 666<g>.

Well, nearly everything was busted--most of the HD channels weren't working, none of the on demand channels were available, and TWC had a recorded message on their tech line saying "hang up if that's why you're calling; we're working on it."

Hook, ESPN HD also does the split-second-sound-drop-out on my TiVo and it is not on SDV.

Also, here is how to get to the diagnostic menu for checking SDV vs. Non-SDV channels: (For a TiVo S3 in North Canton anyways, I hope it is the same for you legacy Adelphia and TiVo HD folks.)

TiVo Central
Messages & Settings
Account & System Information
Tuning Adapter
Tuning Adapter Diagnostics
SDV Session Info

It is divided into Session 1 and Session 2 (1 per tuner). Under each session is Name-Status. If it states "Ready" and 2 lines down (Type) it states "switched" then it is SDV.

Non SDV channels have status of "Idle" and type is "Broadcast."

USA HD is also non-SDV in my area.


Well that made things a little easier to understand on our version of the SDV Screen, and I did check USA HD in my area and it is not in SDV. This should please nickdawg.

Also to give credit where it is do to Vchat20 and his extensive compiling of SDV channels he is correct that STO is no longer listed as SDV. IMHO a couple of good moves TW made with their shaky technology.

I do have two Premium channels both should have all channels remaining on regular broadcast until August 18. At that time HBO channels Signature East, Family East, Comedy East and Latino will be moving to SDV. Cinemax has Cinemax East, More MAX East, Action MAX East, Thriller East, Outer MAX East @Max, and W MAX going SDV. Showtime has Too East, Extreme East, Beyond East, and Family East. TMC East. Starz has, East, Edge East, in Black, Kids and Family, Cinema East, and Comedy. All these channels will be SDV per letter I received on 8/18.

All these channels will be SDV per letter I received on 8/18.

Well, Hook, there ya go... Play around with the time-space continuum by bringing in a letter from the future, and it stops all posting until we catch up to 8/18...

:)

Hello? Is this place open? Haven't seen "Cleveland TWC" anywhere near the top of the general listings lately. What happened? Lots of people quit TWC? Or are you like me and now realize that page after page of rants here are worth nothing more than the entertainment factor? I've finally come to accept that TWC problems will never be fixed so I'm not barking anymore. Plus I enjoy CECB and OTA. Now if they would abolish VHF for ATSC, I'd e a much happier person. But I can't complain too much as I have two indoor antennas set up in my house that almost max out the signal strength bar on WOIO and WJW. UHF would be nice to avoid the hiccups whenever a truck goes by, plane flies over or the weather is funky.

Do you know nick that USAHD is now off SDV? :D

What's this about USA HD? I'll have to check it out...

For shits and giggles I decided to check the diagnostic screen. I see:

1827
USAHD SDV USAHD

1790
SPPPV SDV STOHD

Apparently here they are still SDV? :confused: Who knows. USA could be broadcasting in 3D ED XD smell-o-vision and I wouldn't have known. Haven't watched that channel in at least three weeks. :p

Check your 'switched digital' diag page (page 9 on ODN I think?) and stare at the tuner status entries at the bottom. Should be reading NON SDV. Unless you're little corner of the world is still bass-ackwards.

I checked that page you listed. USA HD is listed as "NON SDV". STOHD is also "NON SDV". Cool, whatever...:rolleyes:

Basically it took TWC four months to do what they should've done in the first place. The next thing that should happen is to move Discovery HDT, HGTV and Big Ten Network INTO SDV and move F/X, CNN, regular Discovery and MSNBC(when it is added) out of SDV. It's idiotic to have put such popular networks on SDV in the first place. Of course this is all a band aid covering the bullet hole. What really needs to be done is KILL some more ANALOG channels. There's no reason to have VH1 Classic, Lifetime Movies, WE and Oxygen, Jewelry TV, Soap Opera on ANALOG when popular networks like F/X and CNN are unwatchable on ASSDV. And what's even worse is the idea of putting PAY channels like HBO on this miserable failure technology. If any more of the HBO channels, the East ones go SDV, I'm canceling HBO. I refuse to pay $12/month for programming that works when it wants to.

Of course the USA thing is now a moot point to me. I could care less. I haven't watched In Plain Sight in four weeks(and I have not missed it either!). Didn't even look at Burn Notice or the other new shows that premiered.

did I miss them.. were we not told we are going to be getting 4 or 5 new HD channels every month until the end of the year..

Or was this just a tease to keep people on TW Cable..

I appreciate what they already added this year. Alot more options then what we had at the start of the year.

Did they run out of HD channels to be added. I know there is Weather channel in HD not sure what others dish/direct have that we don't yet.

Plus what ever happened to Fox Ohio/Sports..going to 24/7 HD...wasn't that suppose to take place earlier this year.

Not that I watch much Fox Ohio when its not Cavs season, just curious

I checked that page you listed. USA HD is listed as "NON SDV". STOHD is also "NON SDV". Cool, whatever...:rolleyes:

Basically it took TWC four months to do what they should've done in the first place. The next thing that should happen is to move Discovery HDT, HGTV and Big Ten Network INTO SDV and move F/X, CNN, regular Discovery and MSNBC(when it is added) out of SDV. It's idiotic to have put such popular networks on SDV in the first place. Of course this is all a band aid covering the bullet hole. What really needs to be done is KILL some more ANALOG channels. There's no reason to have VH1 Classic, Lifetime Movies, WE and Oxygen, Jewelry TV, Soap Opera on ANALOG when popular networks like F/X and CNN are unwatchable on ASSDV. And what's even worse is the idea of putting PAY channels like HBO on this miserable failure technology. If any more of the HBO channels, the East ones go SDV, I'm canceling HBO. I refuse to pay $12/month for programming that works when it wants to.

Of course the USA thing is now a moot point to me. I could care less. I haven't watched In Plain Sight in four weeks(and I have not missed it either!). Didn't even look at Burn Notice or the other new shows that premiered.


FWIW nickdawg I actually pulled In Plain Sight off my Season Pass list. Whatever it had last year it does not have this year.

I can almost guarantee they won't put anymore HBO channels on SDV. I was surprised that they did but quite honestly the only channel I look at on HBO is HBO HD.

Recommendation: Best show of the Summer goes out to SyFy. Warehouse 13 is a great show if you haven't checked it out, you ought to. You do have that On Demand stuff right? Maybe you can take a look there.

We've already discussed the analog situation. That dog is dead no sense in continuing to kick it.

I'm not feeling any anger at SDV right now. Don't know what they've done but pixelation problems seem to be over and when did that problem with it going down occur? It seems like a couple weeks ago was it only last week?

did I miss them.. were we not told we are going to be getting 4 or 5 new HD channels every month until the end of the year..

I answered that for you at the start of the month. You asked the same question.


Did they run out of HD channels to be added. I know there is Weather channel in HD not sure what others dish/direct have that we don't yet.

There are a lot more HD channels available. At least 60 probably more.

Plus what ever happened to Fox Ohio/Sports..going to 24/7 HD...wasn't that suppose to take place earlier this year.
Not that I watch much Fox Ohio when its not Cavs season, just curious

Let me ask you a question. Do you read the forum on a regular basis, because by the questions you ask these have all pretty much been talked about at one time or another?

One more time: No channels in July were added for HD. There is no word on FOX Ohio going 24 hours HD and since the Reds play on that channel and they black it out when Reds are playing it could never really be 24 hours. Maybe for you folks in Erie they don't black out but they do in my area.

Also I published a list off of a letter of channels that will be going SDV on 8/18. You have to think the reason they are putting more channels on SDV is because they are planning more HD channels My list had has a total of 69 channels moving to SDV. When they start adding these channels and what they will be is anybody's guess but the best way to find out what they might be adding is to go to http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/ and check under Program Notices.

Some of the channels that are on my list are actually being moved out of the analog channel list. It seems that TW is making an effort to reduce the amount of analog channels available. From the notices page:

From time to time, we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned: RFT TV, Military History Channel and Crime & Investigation Network may be added to the Digital Choice Package on or after August 15, 2009. Daystar will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.

And then Military History Channel and Crime & Investigation Network are being move to SDV on the 18th.

They are slowly but surely reducing the amount of available analog channels.

You mean you actually get those channels on analog up there? oO Talk about wasting gobs of bandwidth on niche demographic channels. At least here 99% of our analog channels are regularly viewed to some extent. Unless I am reading the wording of that notice wrong.

You mean you actually get those channels on analog up there? oO Talk about wasting gobs of bandwidth on niche demographic channels. At least here 99% of our analog channels are regularly viewed to some extent. Unless I am reading the wording of that notice wrong.

My bad. I don't even see Crime and Information, I thought that was Court TV and Military History Channel already has been moved to digital.

I don't watch either of those channels. And in my area I'm not sure we even get C & I Network. I don't see it on the list. Apparently they are moving from Digital basic to digital choice. Oh well, I don't watch them like I said.

Sorry. Lemme rephrase. I meant channels like Military History and 'Crime & Investigation Network'. Are those actually in analog up there or am I just mis-reading?

Sorry. Lemme rephrase. I meant channels like Military History and 'Crime & Investigation Network'. Are those actually in analog up there or am I just mis-reading?

No, I was wrong in thinking they were analog channels. They are not.

Has anyone taken a look at TW's guide? It's actually up to date. Now I'm curious for you people in Elyria and Mentor, does your guide show the new HD channels? I'll bet it doesn't and that's how they get away with charging you the same price as the rest of us.

Speaking about price we never have received any notice about the cable bill going up 5.00 as many of you have reported and to the best of my knowledge the bill is still the same.

A strange thing happen this afternoon. At 3:30 this afternoon my Time Warner box rebooted and 15 minutes later it did it again. Does anybody have any idea what is going on?

A strange thing happen this afternoon. At 3:30 this afternoon my Time Warner box rebooted and 15 minutes later it did it again. Does anybody have any idea what is going on?

Doubt it was anything. Firmware upgrades usually will reboot in the early morning like 3am. it wouldn't require a second reboot.

Do you have a DVR or just a box? if its just a box and it happens again get a new box. If its a DVR and it happens again move your recorded stuff and get a new DVR.

Not a firmware upgrade. Those happen overnight. Besides, why would TWC upgrade their firmware? ;) They "think like we think" and apparently we want outdated firmware. :rolleyes:

Their crappy box just resets itself sometimes. That's just the way it is.

So how unstable is TWC, really? I'm moving to a new home in Pepper Pike, and AT&T can't provide better than "up to 0.7 mbps" Internet access at this location (no Uverse either), which isn't fast enough to use my work's VPN. I've been a happy subscriber to DirecTV since running away from Adelpia to get HD in early 2004, and would move with DirecTV if I could get at least 1.5 mbps Internet access and phone from AT&T at the new house. However, it appears TWC is my only Internet option, which has me looking at the TWC bundle of digital cable, Internet (up to 7 mbps) and phone. However, my Adelphia experience was so bad, I'm afraid to take a step backwards to TWC HD from the quite good DirecTV HD. In exchange for good Internet, I could live with fewer HD channels with the promise of more to come, but not with HD channels that keep turning on and off. I guess I could live with a clunky DVR, but not with a DVR that selectively chooses when and when not to record.

Many of the regular posters here complaint about TWC, but that also means that the regular posters remain subscribers to TWC for their own reasons. Putting aside those few who can't get line-of-sight to a satellite, can you say that TWC cable with HD, plus Internet and phone is worth it? Or should I keep DirecTV and pirate my neighbor's Roadrunner for Internet access (yes, there is an unsecured wireless connection)?

Also, the new house has a TWC cable install that was poorly done and looks like it might have been done more than once. Wiring is dangling freely from gutters and goes through a basement window with a rag stuffed in the window to stop the breeze. Plus the main TV area has two cables coming through the wall about six feet from the floor and two other cables coming through the wall about 2 feet from the floor. From the outside, these look like two separate runs (classic high road/low road - one across roof, the other close to ground). If I subscribe to TWC, should I pull out all the existing cabling so that I get new runs with the install?

So how unstable is TWC, really? I'm moving to a new home in Pepper Pike, and AT&T can't provide better than "up to 0.7 mbps" Internet access at this location (no Uverse either), which isn't fast enough to use my work's VPN. I've been a happy subscriber to DirecTV since running away from Adelpia to get HD in early 2004, and would move with DirecTV if I could get at least 1.5 mbps Internet access and phone from AT&T at the new house. However, it appears TWC is my only Internet option, which has me looking at the TWC bundle of digital cable, Internet (up to 7 mbps) and phone. However, my Adelphia experience was so bad, I'm afraid to take a step backwards to TWC HD from the quite good DirecTV HD. In exchange for good Internet, I could live with fewer HD channels with the promise of more to come, but not with HD channels that keep turning on and off. I guess I could live with a clunky DVR, but not with a DVR that selectively chooses when and when not to record.

Many of the regular posters here complaint about TWC, but that also means that the regular posters remain subscribers to TWC for their own reasons. Putting aside those few who can't get line-of-sight to a satellite, can you say that TWC cable with HD, plus Internet and phone is worth it? Or should I keep DirecTV and pirate my neighbor's Roadrunner for Internet access (yes, there is an unsecured wireless connection)?

Also, the new house has a TWC cable install that was poorly done and looks like it might have been done more than once. Wiring is dangling freely from gutters and goes through a basement window with a rag stuffed in the window to stop the breeze. Plus the main TV area has two cables coming through the wall about six feet from the floor and two other cables coming through the wall about 2 feet from the floor. From the outside, these look like two separate runs (classic high road/low road - one across roof, the other close to ground). If I subscribe to TWC, should I pull out all the existing cabling so that I get new runs with the install?

Put it this way. At this point despite the fact that I've spent 1200.00 in TiVo equipment for cable TiVo, I would probably switch to D* if I had a clean line of sight. I wouldn't say I would do it in a heartbeat but I'd give it serious consideration.

Their DVR is totally unreliable if you record heavily like I do. If you use it occasionally it's OK. We have one in the house now.

I really like TW's internet, I don't think the phone company can beat it. YMMV. I did have some recent problems but TW laid new cable all the way out to the street for me and fine tuned the equipment downstairs.

I don't know what they will do about your wiring if you tear it down outside. They will only do a basic install anything beyond that cost extra.

Don't steal cable. It's illegal and unfair for the rest of us to have to pay for your service. And you will seriously piss of nickdawg.:D;)

Don't expect to see anything different if you are in an ex Adelphia area. Nothing has changed that much other then the fact that TW tries to market you more then anybody else.

I have heard that AT&T U-Verse only allows you to receive one HD channel at a time. I don't know if that has changed but it use to be you could only record one HD channel at a time. Just something you may want to think about.

So how unstable is TWC, really?

I have line of site and I could probably go to Directv but I'm wary of the commitment. I record quite a bit during the winter and I can honestly say I've never had a recording fail. But it's true that once in a while (usually during the day, though) the sdv channels will put up the message "not available, try again". Remember though that none of the locals are sdv so you shouldn't have any problems with them. HDTV quality is pretty good.

Having said all that, if you like directv, why not keep it for tv and get TWC for roadrunner only. You could get VOIP phone from Viatalk www.viatalk.com for $200 for two years and it includes two lines.
:)

So how unstable is TWC, really?

Very. If you have a HDTV set and want to watch HDTV programming, I'd consider getting TWC's internet service only. Get D* for programming. Trust me, I'm one who usually hates satellite. That's how bad TWC is. At least with satellite you only see reception problems in severe weather. With TWC, you can be hit with the "Channel Not Available" message at any time. Even during recordings.

Also, don't fall for TWC's phone service scam. If you want to be able to properly call 911 and have a working phone in a power outage, TWC is not the company to provide that.

Also, don't fall for TWC's phone service scam. If you want to be able to properly call 911 and have a working phone in a power outage, TWC is not the company to provide that.

Really? Well, I don't know how TW does it but Vonage does provide full e911 service. They have for a couple of years now.

And I'll bet TW does. Why do I think that? I'm not certain but I believe that e 911 is required now. Vonage charges us about .95 a month I believe for the additional required service. My total bill is around 21.00 a month, but I am limited to only 450 outgoing calls. This does not include outgoing 800 number calls. Incoming calls are free. Long distance is free. Unlimited calling comes in around 27.00 a month or so.

What you have to look out for on TW's phone service is the rate is an introductory rate and it will go up on you as will all your cable services. Adelphia use to offer a year, I don't know what TW offers now.

TW will also tell you that you can get caller ID on your television and you can but what they don't tell you is they will charge you for caller ID.

Charging for caller id? That's new. Unless they are hiding it under some other fee, I have never seen a charge for the caller ID service on our bill. All those extra 'value services' come free with your service: http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/phone/callingfeatures.html

As far as 911 and power outages: 911 service does work and very well. They have the advantage of having your billing address on file to provide to the 911 calling center and moving your modem to another premises usually is not gonna happen unless you have another very good reason for it and even then you won't be able to take it very far (I kinda doubt I'd be able to move mine to, say, Canton and have it work without reprovisioning it and that would take changing the billing address and junk completely) and if you do have a need for it, you'll take 911 service into account if smart enough.

Power outages: I will give you that. But really how often do we get them around here when they are not man-made outages and short lived? Most areas have the plant on a battery/genset backup. The modems all have capabilities for addon backup batteries and even if TW doesn't supply them in your area, most are available on ebay with the right search terms. And if that doesn't tickle your fancy, a basic UPS will do the job and even have an added bonus of keeping a cordless phone system going in an outage.

Don't knock TWC's phone service until you have tried it yourself for longer than a week. It may not be as cost effective as a true VoIP service, but it's much cheaper than POTS and it Just Works(tm).

I'm not sure TWC should even try to give us even more new HD channels since they can't keep the one they've already given us working. For the last three days I've had at least 4-8 different HD channels with the dreaded not available message and many times it was when I really wanted to watch something. granted, they sometimes would pop back in 10 or 15 minutes later (sometimes not) but I would have to keep changing channels to check which pretty much sucks. It really sucks when I get my 98.00 bill and have to write a check not knowing if I can turn on my tv and get the channels I'm supposed to have ALL THE TIME!

The last time I saw their pricing they charged for caller ID. That may have change.

You mean they dont forward your call if there is a power outage? UPS doesn't last that long on my computer and we had a 5 hour blackout recently and I've seen them last for days.

The modem is not a huge power consumer compared to a computer and will last a lot longer on a UPS. May not be whole days, but I'd wager an estimate of close to 24 hours depending on the size of the backup battery.

Selective forwarding: This is why you get a google voice number and have calls ring both your home and cell numbers and choose which one to pick up. ;) Both my mom and myself do this and it works flawlessly. And as a bonus, I have 'visual voicemail' (transcribed messages) SMS'd to my cell and accessible online with the original message. Works with any landline/VoIP/cell carriers. And with the addition of a free Gizmo account, I have free in-US incoming and outgoing calls with any SIP capable device through my google voice number.
-Vonage's selective forwarding is more a bonus feature than anything on top of the focus of providing a dialtone. Not everyone is going to be using it as a deal maker/breaker when shopping for phone service.

I'm not sure TWC should even try to give us even more new HD channels since they can't keep the one they've already given us working. For the last three days I've had at least 4-8 different HD channels with the dreaded not available message and many times it was when I really wanted to watch something. granted, they sometimes would pop back in 10 or 15 minutes later (sometimes not) but I would have to keep changing channels to check which pretty much sucks. It really sucks when I get my 98.00 bill and have to write a check not knowing if I can turn on my tv and get the channels I'm supposed to have ALL THE TIME!
You really should complain about this. There's probably a problem at the hub. When I got that I complained. Now I admit I do have a different number to call but still they should fix it.

Also, where exactly do you live that you have day+ long power outages with no severe weather in sight? oO I know we have had some storms here lately, but they haven't been THAT bad. I can just imagine your area being strung up with old crochety overheard aluminum electrical lines and poles from circa 1900. ;)

The modem is not a huge power consumer compared to a computer and will last a lot longer on a UPS. May not be whole days, but I'd wager an estimate of close to 24 hours depending on the size of the backup battery.

Selective forwarding: This is why you get a google voice number and have calls ring both your home and cell numbers and choose which one to pick up. ;) Both my mom and myself do this and it works flawlessly. And as a bonus, I have 'visual voicemail' (transcribed messages) SMS'd to my cell and accessible online with the original message. Works with any landline/VoIP/cell carriers. And with the addition of a free Gizmo account, I have free in-US incoming and outgoing calls with any SIP capable device through my google voice number.
-Vonage's selective forwarding is more a bonus feature than anything on top of the focus of providing a dialtone. Not everyone is going to be using it as a deal maker/breaker when shopping for phone service.

I have google voice and why not? I use it to make calls from my blackberry and SMS but I don't use the forwarding. If I'm not home it can go to voice mail. Truth is I never even come close to 450 calls last month however I had 200 of my 250 text.

Like I said earlier: Don't knock it til you have tried it for yourself. In our house it was used merely to get away from Embarq/Sprint and it has done that job very well. VoIP would be an option if we weren't stuck on the Lite HSI package.

Also, where exactly do you live that you have day+ long power outages with no severe weather in sight? oO I know we have had some storms here lately, but they haven't been THAT bad. I can just imagine your area being strung up with old crochety overheard aluminum electrical lines and poles from circa 1900. ;)
Bainbridge is very rural I have nothing but woods in my back yard. When we first moved here I May 2004 we had a 4 day outage in the Spring and a 3 day outage in early Spring 2005, That's when we bought our natural gas powered generator. Since then we've had no longer outages then 5 or 6 hours.

Don't knock TWC's phone service until you have tried it yourself for longer than a week. It may not be as cost effective as a true VoIP service, but it's much cheaper than POTS and it Just Works(tm).

Ehhh, no. I don't even want to try it for one day. I like my phone service and I'm not screwing with it. The phone is the only thing that works reliably. A call to 911 takes me TO 911, not some call center crap. I don't care how well they claim it works, it does not work as well as a regular telephone line. As I have said before this whole VOIP system is retarded. It's reinventing something that did not need to be reinvented and in turn making it worse. The phone system has been the same for close to 100 years, give or take a few minor changes and I see no need to change it now. And I refuse to change.

The last time I saw their pricing they charged for caller ID. That may have change.


I wouldn't be surprised if they did charge. Usually those kind of things are extras. That's how it is on AT&T, I think. I don't have caller ID so I don't really know.

We've been down this road before and I don't intend to go down it again but Voyage does connect you with the "real" 911,
Geese nickdawg the phone company does not own 911. They don't even bring that up in there commercials because its not true.

And you are right, phone company does charge for caller id. Vonage doesn't and I believe Vchat20 if he says TW doesn't. The phone company is a dinosaur and it will probably have to change the way they deliver service or they will be extinct.

Heck as tight as you are and ket me tell you bro you squeak I can't see why you can't embrace this technology.

Here's an excerpt from our past bill:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2162/bill.th.gif (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/bill.gif/)
As far as the phone service is concerned it is the original standard unlimited local/long distance package, all the basic extras like caller id, call forwarding, 3-way, etc.. There's no charges on there relating to phone other than the main cost of service and the fees.

The link I posted a little ways up on the matter clearly displays what extra phone services are completely free and automatically included as well as what costs extra. Caller ID on TV just requires the digital phone service and any STB and cable package that TWC offers. And most of the time the feature is set up automatically (if not, call up a CSR and it'll be fixed in moments).

Also nick: 911 service, by law, is supposed to go direct to the 911 call center (the same call center you will reach on a copper POTS line) for your physical location (though some services rely on convoluted means to determine this. true VoIP services like vonage go by the billing address the same as Time Warner's system but they warn you ahead of time if you decide to move your ATA to another residence). /NO/ company routes 911 calls to an IVR or non-emergency call center before reaching the real 911 call center. If they did, the FCC would be on them in seconds.

So how unstable is TWC, really? I'm moving to a new home in Pepper Pike, and AT&T can't provide better than "up to 0.7 mbps" Internet access at this location (no Uverse either), which isn't fast enough to use my work's VPN. I've been a happy subscriber to DirecTV since running away from Adelpia to get HD in early 2004, and would move with DirecTV if I could get at least 1.5 mbps Internet access and phone from AT&T at the new house. However, it appears TWC is my only Internet option, which has me looking at the TWC bundle of digital cable, Internet (up to 7 mbps) and phone. However, my Adelphia experience was so bad, I'm afraid to take a step backwards to TWC HD from the quite good DirecTV HD. In exchange for good Internet, I could live with fewer HD channels with the promise of more to come, but not with HD channels that keep turning on and off. I guess I could live with a clunky DVR, but not with a DVR that selectively chooses when and when not to record.

Many of the regular posters here complaint about TWC, but that also means that the regular posters remain subscribers to TWC for their own reasons. Putting aside those few who can't get line-of-sight to a satellite, can you say that TWC cable with HD, plus Internet and phone is worth it? Or should I keep DirecTV and pirate my neighbor's Roadrunner for Internet access (yes, there is an unsecured wireless connection)?

Also, the new house has a TWC cable install that was poorly done and looks like it might have been done more than once. Wiring is dangling freely from gutters and goes through a basement window with a rag stuffed in the window to stop the breeze. Plus the main TV area has two cables coming through the wall about six feet from the floor and two other cables coming through the wall about 2 feet from the floor. From the outside, these look like two separate runs (classic high road/low road - one across roof, the other close to ground). If I subscribe to TWC, should I pull out all the existing cabling so that I get new runs with the install?
I live in Solon, have been with TW (before that it was Adelphia) in the area for nearly 5 years since I moved back here, and I would have to give TW a thumbs up for both cable TV and Roadrunner internet. I have the SA8300HD and have not had the recording reliability problems that Hook has reported in the past. (I believe he will tell you that the majority of those problems were due to his use of an external hard drive on his old 8300HD for which the support was "not ready for prime time".)

We record 2-4 HD programs per day, often record 2 while watching one and have no issues. The WAF (wife acceptance factor) is very high!

I get my VOIP phone service from ViaTalk and it works very well on Roadrunner. I have the cable modem, router, VOIP interface and 5.8 GHz wireless phone base on a UPS and the local cable plant seems to have adequate battery backup to handle all but one power outage we've had over the past 5 years.

Is TWC better than Dish or Direct TV? I don't know. I have too many trees to the south to even consider trying it now.

Hope this helps!

Ron J.

You save a lot of money by taking the Road Runner light. If I was to do that instead of using Vonage and Road Runner turbo or whatever they call it my bill would be about the same as yours with Vonage. But we use the high speed for other things like my wife's second life so we really need the turbo internet speed.

I live in Solon, have been with TW (before that it was Adelphia) in the area for nearly 5 years since I moved back here, and I would have to give TW a thumbs up for both cable TV and Roadrunner internet. I have the SA8300HD and have not had the recording reliability problems that Hook has reported in the past. (I believe he will tell you that the majority of those problems were due to his use of an external hard drive on his old 8300HD for which the support was "not ready for prime time".)

We record 2-4 HD programs per day, often record 2 while watching one and have no issues. The WAF (wife acceptance factor) is very high!

I get my VOIP phone service from ViaTalk and it works very well on Roadrunner. I have the cable modem, router, VOIP interface and 5.8 GHz wireless phone base on a UPS and the local cable plant seems to have adequate battery backup to handle all but one power outage we've had over the past 5 years.

Is TWC better than Dish or Direct TV? I don't know. I have too many trees to the south to even consider trying it now.

Hope this helps!

Ron J.

If I'm watching 3 shows minimum a night and recording 4-6 then I would consider that to be a ball park of what I was doing. I record even more today.

At this ration you will quickly run out of room on the measly 20 hour disk that's provided with their DVR so you almost have to have an eSATA. Now I don't know what happened to that thing but on the box it said it was made specially for the SA 8300. It was 250 gb and I needed that extra space.

To this day if you purchase an eSATA for the SA 8300 you still will not get support from TW because that is not a feature that is "offered" of the DVR it's simply available. Heck, to be honest I can probably get more support from TW for my TiVo then you could for that eSATA.

My point is you might be recording a bit more then average but you wouldn't be able to record at the pace I do without eSATA. But that alone does not give the SA 8300 a fail. It has failed on it's own without the eSATA attached, just not as frequently. However as you said there is no doubt that it was much wort when adding eSATA.

Thanks to all for the comments on TWC. My statement about pirating from the neighbor was in jest, although I have considered offering to sub-lease Internet access from the neighbor. There might, however, be a TWC contract term prohibiting resale.

I have a good TWC question. Are you allowed to have a cable card? Let's say someone wants to save money on their cable bill and they really don't care about losing whatever is in the SDV pool. Would they be allowed to have a cable card now that this area has been infected by SDV or is TWC essentially "banned" from selling cable cards now? I looked at the recent price list and I see TWC still has cable card listed as $3, so I wonder if they are still giving them out.

I have a good TWC question. Are you allowed to have a cable card? Let's say someone wants to save money on their cable bill and they really don't care about losing whatever is in the SDV pool. Would they be allowed to have a cable card now that this area has been infected by SDV or is TWC essentially "banned" from selling cable cards now? I looked at the recent price list and I see TWC still has cable card listed as $3, so I wonder if they are still giving them out.
Absolutely you can have cable card. You will have to pay a 28 dollar install fee to get one. You can't just pick one up at TW office.

Absolutely you can have cable card. You will have to pay a 28 dollar install fee to get one. You can't just pick one up at TW office.

Yikes!! :eek::eek::eek: $28 just to stick a fncking credit card into a fncking slot! I'd happily insert my foot into TWC for free.:p

I think I'll just cancel my cable box and watch whatever is left in the analog tier(CNN, USA, whatever) are in there anyway, that's all that matters. Plus I can use my antenna to still watch real HD on the broadcast networks through OTA, which is what I watch 90% of the time anyway. Plus the added benefit of knowing that analog will ALWAYS work, unlike ASSDV.

I think I'll just cancel my cable box and watch whatever is left in the analog tier

Sorry, but the Nickdawg Rules for TW Subscribers explicitly require you to have that ugly box. Using analog only is expressly prohibited.

(Sorry, couldn't resist....)

although I have considered offering to sub-lease Internet access from the neighbor. There might, however, be a TWC contract term prohibiting resale.

That's definitely a no-no. From http://help.twcable.com/html/twc_sub_agreement.html


(iii) If I receive HSD Service, I agree not to use the HSD Service for operation as an Internet service provider, for the hosting of websites (other than as expressly permitted as part of the HSD Service) or for any enterprise purpose whether or not the enterprise is directed toward making a profit. I agree that, among other things, my use of any form of transmitter or wide area network that enables persons or entities outside the location identified in the Work Order to use my Services, whether or not a fee is sought, will constitute an enterprise purpose. Furthermore, if I use a wireless network within my residence, I will limit wireless access to the HSD Service (by establishing and using a secure password or similar means) to the members of my household.

Yikes!! :eek::eek::eek: $28 just to stick a fncking credit card into a fncking slot! I'd happily insert my foot into TWC for free.:p

I think I'll just cancel my cable box and watch whatever is left in the analog tier(CNN, USA, whatever) are in there anyway, that's all that matters. Plus I can use my antenna to still watch real HD on the broadcast networks through OTA, which is what I watch 90% of the time anyway. Plus the added benefit of knowing that analog will ALWAYS work, unlike ASSDV.

No, not for just sticking it in the slot. They also have to place a call to have someone set up service for that card number.:)

Outside of the constant pixelation on any channel, everything is working just fine now.:rolleyes: I'm a happy customer, let me poor some more of this Irish whisky in my coffee.;)

You recommending satellite to somebody is the biggest turn around you've made since you admitted you were jealous of TiVo. Now I know you're not going to get a TiVo but seriously reconsider D*. Hey, you get a better DVR better picture, better customer service. And D* is supposed to be laying out some kind of deal to return to TiVo so you could potentially have the best of everything. I'd jump if I were you.

Well I have already made my decision that once I have the extra $1000 or so to build a Windows 7 based HTPC ($600 for the main hardware and OTA/analog tuners with the right haggling and another $400 for the cablecard tuners) I'm gonna go that route and dump Time Warner's crap. ATI's supposed to be releasing new firmware for their cablecard tuners that relaxes their DRM to bring it in line with Tivo's CCI limitations and also adding support for the SDV tuning adapters. As a bonus, I can use as many or as few tuners as I want as long as they fit in the machine. USB tuners would be endless (Want to watch/record all the OTA channels simultaneously? Cool. I can add 6, 7, or 8 OTA tuners in addition to 2, 3, 4, etc.. cablecard tuners if I want to go nuts)

Positive side to this is that I can literally go to any provider if I want and even do HD on satellite through Hauppage's HD-PVR. No subscription fees for the guide data. And to be quite honest I do think it is ahead of Tivo in the feature/usability/speed department at the cost of a hiked entry price. If you wanna do the cablecard thing, all the tuners you are gonna find run $180 at the absolute cheapest and usually upwards of $200-$250 a pop and this is on top of building a capable machine with a decent amount of storage and then the OS. But it does have its advantages nevertheless.

I mean, I like Navigator when it comes to being stuck with a low cost DVR from the cable company. If you don't expect the world out of it, it works great. But I am overdue for replacing it. Sadly the lack of a job around here these days is making this quite a challenge.

Anyways, </rant> :)

I should add that it has even gotten to a point that my mom has noticed some of the annoying bugs in Navigator and she's not even tech literate and pays close attention to the workings of these things. Granted they aren't show-stopping bugs, but annoyances nonetheless. Notably one is when you are scrolling through the guide, the title/description data in the top left of the screen does not update and shows the previous channel you had the cursor on until you go left or right staying on that program (I have only played with the bug on hour+ long shows. Dunno about half hour shows.)

Yikes!! :eek::eek::eek: $28 just to stick a fncking credit card into a fncking slot! I'd happily insert my foot into TWC for free.:p



I have yet to have to pay for a cable card install; TW has never got it right the first time out yet. Twice they "forgot" to bring a card out, and another time they messed up my calibrated 52 inch Mitsubishi set by re-setting it to defaults. Each time I got a credit for the install. I have 3 cable cards total.

In the mail TW offered a “de-featured” cable box for 1 year, at the same cost as a cable card for current cable card subscribers. I thought this would be a good time to see what I was missing with all these new SDV HD channels. When I was recently having a repair done due to channel lineups being lost on my cable card sets. I asked for one of these “special” boxes to be brought out so that I could test it with my current TV’s and see how they integrated into my setup.

After hooking up the set to the cable box to my Mitsubishi 52 LCD HDMI port, I immediately noticed that the picture didn’t look as sharp and the colors were much more washed out. I tried to do some basic calibration, but switching between the box and the cable card showed that the built in TV tuner was far superior in processing the picture for this TV than the cable box.

The next thing I noticed was the switching time to change channels. It was now much slower than using the TV’s internal tuner by 2-3 seconds.

I then decided to test the box on another set, this time my SONY 40 inch LCD. While the picture wasn’t as bad as what I noticed on the 52 inch screen, it still didn’t look as good as the internal tuner. I left the box on this TV for a couple of weeks to check out how the new SDV HD channels looked.

SDV in my area as of a month ago (Medina County) was a complete failure. When it didn't say "unavailable", it just pixilated a froze up. Some of my cable card channels were "lost" because of a head-end configuration screwup that caused some channles (non-SDV) to be un-provisisioned. It took them about a week to get it worked out including many phone calls and truck rolls.

When my first bill came in with the new box, they were charging me full price for the cable box, plus added an extra digital tear $5 line item that wasn't on my bill before. It was supposed to be the lower price of a cable card, but my bill was now $30 more than it was before. Needless to say we called, and they said we received the wrong box and it had to be swapped out for a new one at a TW office. We then took the box to the TW location 10 miles away to get it swapped out. They guy there said it was the correct box, that it was an error in the billing system and he would "fix" it. At this point we had spend 4+ hour on the phone trying to get the billing worked out, and now a wasted 1 hour trip to the TW office to swap a box that didn't need to be swapped. I told them to keep the box and to bring my bill back to what it was pre-cable box.

The last time I brought up my use of cable cards everyone here was so pro TW and that SDV was going to be the savior of HD video. I will keep my lower priced cable cards and skip this SDV "upgrade" for now.

I have yet to have to pay for a cable card install; TW has never got it right the first time out yet. Twice they "forgot" to bring a card out, and another time they messed up my calibrated 52 inch Mitsubishi set by re-setting it to defaults. Each time I got a credit for the install. I have 3 cable cards total.

In the mail TW offered a “de-featured” cable box for 1 year, at the same cost as a cable card for current cable card subscribers. I thought this would be a good time to see what I was missing with all these new SDV HD channels. When I was recently having a repair done due to channel lineups being lost on my cable card sets. I asked for one of these “special” boxes to be brought out so that I could test it with my current TV’s and see how they integrated into my setup.

After hooking up the set to the cable box to my Mitsubishi 52 LCD HDMI port, I immediately noticed that the picture didn’t look as sharp and the colors were much more washed out. I tried to do some basic calibration, but switching between the box and the cable card showed that the built in TV tuner was far superior in processing the picture for this TV than the cable box.

The next thing I noticed was the switching time to change channels. It was now much slower than using the TV’s internal tuner by 2-3 seconds.

I then decided to test the box on another set, this time my SONY 40 inch LCD. While the picture wasn’t as bad as what I noticed on the 52 inch screen, it still didn’t look as good as the internal tuner. I left the box on this TV for a couple of weeks to check out how the new SDV HD channels looked.

SDV in my area as of a month ago (Medina County) was a complete failure. When it didn't say "unavailable", it just pixilated a froze up. Some of my cable card channels were "lost" because of a head-end configuration screwup that caused some channles (non-SDV) to be un-provisisioned. It took them about a week to get it worked out including many phone calls and truck rolls.

When my first bill came in with the new box, they were charging me full price for the cable box, plus added an extra digital tear $5 line item that wasn't on my bill before. It was supposed to be the lower price of a cable card, but my bill was now $30 more than it was before. Needless to say we called, and they said we received the wrong box and it had to be swapped out for a new one at a TW office. We then took the box to the TW location 10 miles away to get it swapped out. They guy there said it was the correct box, that it was an error in the billing system and he would "fix" it. At this point we had spend 4+ hour on the phone trying to get the billing worked out, and now a wasted 1 hour trip to the TW office to swap a box that didn't need to be swapped. I told them to keep the box and to bring my bill back to what it was pre-cable box.

The last time I brought up my use of cable cards everyone here was so pro TW and that SDV was going to be the savior of HD video. I will keep my lower priced cable cards and skip this SDV "upgrade" for now.

That was a story and a half. It seems that whenever a TW tech support person can't figure out the problem they say "wrong box." I think I wrote about the guy looking for 1080p once and the CSR told him he needed to upgrade his box. Funny. Not that it happened to you, just funny.

One downside to your decision to going back to cable cards is you are going to lose a tremendous amount of digital channels come 8/18. Hopefully they are channels you don't care about but I think you should be aware. You should have got a letter in the mail from TW. Even premium channels from HBO, Showtime, Starz, The Movie Channel and Cinemax will be affected this time out.

As far as SDV goes I'm not seeing people complaining about it on the TiVo threads. I've asked specifically about this and people seem happy with it so that leads me to believe that this problem is more or less exclusive to our area. Lucky us.:rolleyes:;)

well more failure on TWC
ESPN and ESPN2 HD are black
same with ABC Family HD and maybe more

well more failure on TWC
ESPN and ESPN2 HD are black
same with ABC Family HD and maybe more

Yep same over here. It's another massive SDV FAIL!!!!:mad:

Message is up on TW customer service that they are having a digital channel outage and they are aware of their FAILed service.:rolleyes:

I honestly don't care. I plugged the cable line into my TV to see if it works. The picture is fuzzy and analog, but it worked far better than SDV did. Haven't seen a "channel not available" message once. :p I'll probably get rid of my cable box and get nothing to replace it. Cable card isn't worth it just to get what I can without the box anyway. Since almost all of the digital channels are going SDV, they wouldn't work anyway.

Just for the record since people do look to see what we have to say about TW that particular outage was cleared up rather quickly. It lasted maybe an hour.

Good the outage ended. Now, let the outrage continue. ;):p

I don't but I found out about this link through a friend. There's a page called Time Warner Blows and it's rants about TWC's sh!tty service. If we have any Twitterers here they can add the horror stories from NE Hoio.

https://twitter.com/TimeWarnerBlows

nickdawg, we really could have done without that profile picture. I took you off ignore some time ago, don't tempt me to put you back on! :D

nickdawg, we really could have done without that profile picture. I took you off ignore some time ago, don't tempt me to put you back on! :D

x1 That's a bit much nickdawg, I almost said something about it myself.

That was a s-h-i-t-t-y thing to post. But I thought it was cute. :)

Take this for what it is worth...

I had a truck roll for my cable service in North Ridgeville over a week ago because my TiVoHD will not receive channel 435. Anyways, Mr. Cable Guy says that our area will not get anymore Hi-Def channels until December. The reason is because they have to do the Motorola STB swap out, and they cannot make SA STB's fast enough to replace them all in the field. If this is true than I'll be switching to DirecTV after summer is over.

And yet another SDV outage last night and this morning in NEO.

And yet another SDV outage last night and this morning in NEO.

I haven't looked yet, but I will. Bummer when it happens on the week ends.

Maybe it was a brief outage but everything is working on my side of town.:)

I live in Youngstown/Warren area. All of them standard and HD are unavailable, press A to try again. So sick of this!!!!!

Not sure what you mean by "standard" and HD channels, but I can tell you I'm not experiencing any problems in Bainbridge. I would suggest you call customer service and make them aware you are having problems because just mentioning it here isn't going to get it fixed.

I do sympathize it does happen far to often. Customer service may make you do the reset dance but until they get enough calls it won't be considered an "issue" so that's why it's imperative that you call them.

By standard I mean Digital channels that are SDV on the digital tier but not HD. We did the box reset, got credit, and tech scheduled. Worthless as that will be.

By standard I mean Digital channels that are SDV on the digital tier but not HD. We did the box reset, got credit, and tech scheduled. Worthless as that will be.

Might not be worthless. You could have a signal problem, could be a problem at the hub. You gotta start somewhere.

Hey I'm not defending TW by the way I fully understand your frustration. Good luck. I just checked customer service line no mention of outages at this point.

It's not a signal problem, it's all fine. In fact they now have a message up running with customer service. None of this is new. It happens very frequently. SDV is simply unreliable with TW. When it works it fine, which is far and in between. It will be wortless to send a tech. They need to send it to network level two or three support. This is bullshit service!

I was watching something I had recorded on USA last night. Don't quite remember what the show was now but it was so full of pixelation and sound drop offs it was hardly watchable. Hate to admit it but analog would have been better.

SDV sucks.

Edit: This was recorded when USA was still SDV.

It's not a signal problem, it's all fine. In fact they now have a message up running with customer service. None of this is new. It happens very frequently. SDV is simply unreliable with TW. When it works it fine, which is far and in between. It will be wortless to send a tech. They need to send it to network level two or three support. This is bullshit service!

I just checked customer service. No message when I called.

Yep, I tend to agree with you. All this cash in HD flat panels and poor service. I am investigating a Direct TV switch. My service was so bad last month TW gave me a $55 credit!

Yep, I tend to agree with you. All this cash in HD flat panels and poor service. I am investigating a Direct TV switch. My service was so bad last month TW gave me a $55 credit!

All the effen credit in the world doesn't make a difference. What we want is service. I don't mind paying so long as I get what I pay for.

Yeah, if you got one of their pathetic DVR's go for Direct TV. I would if I could.

I couldn't agree with you more. Well I don;t know how TW can keep this scam going. Most people are dropping a "Franklin" plus per month. When people see the very poor level of service for this kind of coin, it's just plain common sense to say bye bye. I am not saying a dish service will be the end all be all, but my god it can't be any worse! I am in a pretty good position for satellite, so I will call for a site survey next week. I won;t boot them completely, I'll keep there roadrunner, since that is pretty solid.

All the effen credit in the world doesn't make a difference. What we want is service. I don't mind paying so long as I get what I pay for.

Yeah, if you got one of their pathetic DVR's go for Direct TV. I would if I could.

If I were you, I'd be getting estimates from tree removal companies. From how you describe your TV viewing, you sound like the perfect person for D*, especially if they had a Tivo option. I feel really bad for Tivo people and their problems with TWC. To spend that much money on a box only to not have it work because of the incompetence of an overpriced subscription TV service.

If I were you, I'd be getting estimates from tree removal companies. From how you describe your TV viewing, you sound like the perfect person for D*, especially if they had a Tivo option. I feel really bad for Tivo people and their problems with TWC. To spend that much money on a box only to not have it work because of the incompetence of an overpriced subscription TV service.

But it's so inconsistent, that's what I don't understand, i.e. I can put it on MLBnet and get perfect picture with no problems at all. Now the problem I mentioned with USA is the first time I've seen anything that bad, usually it's not perfect but it's quite watchable.

As far as trees go, I've got a wife nickdawg and I discussed that with her one time. I lost. That was before I bought my TiVo's. Had I have won I would have D*.

As far as trees go, I've got a wife nickdawg and I discussed that with her one time. I lost. That was before I bought my TiVo's. Had I have won I would have D*.

Tell her you'd save money by going to D*. And you wouldn't be wasting money on crappy service that doesn't work. Plus I hear D* has QVC HD. Shopping in HD, and money saved on cable to spend!! ;);)

Inconsistentcy perpetuated by stupid technical support robots. More than 24 hours have passed and still no channels, no explanation. Diagnostics show there is no SDV server entry. DON'T THEY HAVE NETWORK ENGINEERS or are they dumb as rock to.

They must have done something here. Today I decided to turn on CNN HD instead of watching CNN analog, and CNN HD actually worked. There wasn't a top and bottom of the hour picture breakup. Interesting...

But it's so inconsistent, that's what I don't understand, i.e. I can put it on MLBnet and get perfect picture with no problems at all. Now the problem I mentioned with USA is the first time I've seen anything that bad, usually it's not perfect but it's quite watchable

It has to do with which frequency the channel is on. There are several frequencies used by the SDV pool channels. The thing I've noticed is if you tune to various channels with the diagnostic screen up, all the channels that have issues at a particular time are on the same frequency. And channels on another frequency have no problems at all. MLB channel must be on a solid working frequency and USA was on a frequency that has problems.

Here, my original problem with totally unwatchable programming and then the breakup every half hour lasting a minute was on channels that used 585.000MHz.

This is why SDV is such a giant turd dragon. And yes I blame the technology as a whole. With regular linear channels, like non-SDV channels, the problem was isolated to one or two channels on that frequency(usually HD are two per QAM) and it could be corrected easily and quickly because it is always on the same channels. But with SDV, frequencies change often, depending on when channels are tuned, so the problem jumps around to different channels and it's harder to find the problem.

Interesting.. page 9 of SDV diagnostics shows Carousel Freq. as 585:256,573:256
Mini Carousel has not been read. SDV Filter Timeout

Interesting.. page 9 of SDV diagnostics shows Carousel Freq. as 585:256,573:256
Mini Carousel has not been read. SDV Filter Timeout
On the first SDV page there is a line that has Service GP:. It should have some numbers there. Mine says 34107. This is while I'm tuned to an SDV channel.

When I talk to my contact at TW she always has me checks this. Now I have no idea what the significance is about this area but think the number shows if you are properly connected. Check that and see if you have the same numbers as I do.

Now at this point we hope that Cathode Kid will come by and explain this area. Maybe he can advise you as what you need to do.

But with SDV, frequencies change often, depending on when channels are tuned, so the problem jumps around to different channels and it's harder to find the problem.

Maybe we need to start an organized campaign to report SDV problems to TW in terms of "I can't receive SDV channels on 585.000 MHz"... The CSRs would originally give dumb looks while drool is wiped from their faces, but if enough calls like this are elevated to 2nd-tier support, maybe TW will take notice...

My service group is 37157. I truely think it does have to do with not being able recieve a frequencie. When the carousel group changes frequency and it hits the one I can't recieve, it prohibits connection to the SDV server and takes everything out. No surely I couldn't possibly be the only SOB in my node with this problem? By the time I wait out a techie coming to house, the freq. will be wheeled to another and the problem will disapear. The carousel freq used was 573. prior to what I posted above.
Speaking with support this A.M. this was elevated to level 2 engineering. The visit scheduled for this Thursday is with an engineer. Hopefully they will be able resolve this issue.

My service group is 37157. I truely think it does have to do with not being able recieve a frequencie. When the carousel group changes frequency and it hits the one I can't recieve, it prohibits connection to the SDV server and takes everything out. No surely I couldn't possibly be the only SOB in my node with this problem? By the time I wait out a techie coming to house, the freq. will be wheeled to another and the problem will disapear. The carousel freq used was 573. prior to what I posted above.
Speaking with support this A.M. this was elevated to level 2 engineering. The visit scheduled for this Thursday is with an engineer. Hopefully they will be able resolve this issue.

Yeah but they are not coming out until Thursday? What if the problem resolves itself on Wednesday and Friday you're back in the same boat?

I've never heard of them sending an engineer out though so that might be why it's taking so long. Whatever the case is good luck. Check back here too from time to time to see if Cathode Kid has an answer for you. He knows the workings of TW pretty well, better then most of us do. Maybe he can speak on what's going on.

I only can share what they tell me. Most likely this will need to go to a network level 3 specialist. It's beyond first line techs, and line level engineers. It all depends on where those SDV servers are deployed, some are at the hub. However, regardless anyone with any common sense will see that the boxes need and SDV server IP address to function. Thats there job to figure out why it's not getting it. Secondly, I am ever so curious if those problem is specifically related to me or the entire service group.

I only can share what they tell me. Most likely this will need to go to a network level 3 specialist. It's beyond first line techs, and line level engineers. It all depends on where those SDV servers are deployed, some are at the hub. However, regardless anyone with any common sense will see that the boxes need and SDV server IP address to function. Thats there job to figure out why it's not getting it. Secondly, I am ever so curious if those problem is specifically related to me or the entire service group.

Yep, that's where my problem was too. At the hub only I wasn't as smart as you. What you are saying is accurate it needs an IP address or it definitely won't function. I would think if it is at the hub that other people would be affected too, correct? They fixed mine and gave me 4 days credit. Make sure they credit you for all those days you're out besides the credit they already gave you.

Sucks that you have to wait so long.

One would logically assume if its a hub/router issue the entire group would be effected, and either people don't call it in, or they don't have digital cable. If it is specific to me, then it could be either a pole tap, or some other hardware malfunction attenuating that specific frequency prohibiting connection. I have also noticed the LSCP server is unreachable also, which indicates to me at least a network issue at the hub or beyond. I believe the lSCP protocol is used for tear down and setup of SDV streams. These issues don't require a 4 day wait, but rather a network level III at a console looking the network. They should be able to tell in an instant if it's a malfunction edge router. Sometimes I think they don't even know! LOL

Maybe we need to start an organized campaign to report SDV problems to TW in terms of "I can't receive SDV channels on 585.000 MHz"...

Didn't someone in here determine that 585.000 was getting interference from one of the Akron FM stations? 97.5 or 94.9, I think, some sort of harmonic thing.

Didn't someone in here determine that 585.000 was getting interference from one of the Akron FM stations? 97.5 or 94.9, I think, some sort of harmonic thing.

That would be me, and I'm still very suspicious this might be part of the problem. 585.000 is the sixth harmonic of 97.5 WONE. Given the high power of their signal and the strong possibility that multiple bad connections, unterminated drops, or just crappy runs exist in any given area, it wouldn't take much to introduce interference from the radio station into the cable network. There's not a whole lot of error correction headroom on digital signals, and HD is much pickier about signal quality. Add the fact that 585 MHz seems to be at the top of the pick-list for SDV, and stuff starts breaking.

I would think that the SDV equipment allows TW to specify what frequencies are selected in what order, and I'd hope that some TW engineer would recognize the potential problems with the 97.5/585.0 "thing", but who knows...

Now I'm no radio engineer, but I know a fair amount of RF theory... It's possible I'm completely wrong on this, but I'd love to hear what one of TW's RF engineers has to say about this.

That would be me, and I'm still very suspicious this might be part of the problem. 585.000 is the sixth harmonic of 97.5 WONE. Given the high power of their signal and the strong possibility that multiple bad connections, unterminated drops, or just crappy runs exist in any given area, it wouldn't take much to introduce interference from the radio station into the cable network. There's not a whole lot of error correction headroom on digital signals, and HD is much pickier about signal quality. Add the fact that 585 MHz seems to be at the top of the pick-list for SDV, and stuff starts breaking.

I would think that the SDV equipment allows TW to specify what frequencies are selected in what order, and I'd hope that some TW engineer would recognize the potential problems with the 97.5/585.0 "thing", but who knows...

Now I'm no radio engineer, but I know a fair amount of RF theory... It's possible I'm completely wrong on this, but I'd love to hear what one of TW's RF engineers has to say about this.

You know you guys are talking way over my head. This doesn't make sense to me but I'm going to take you at your word and accept that somehow an OTA radio station can affect cable SDV.

The person who does understand and ciukd explain if TW knows about it I've asked for a couple of times. CK where are you and no I don't mean Clark Kent?

Well as an update I get from work today and viola! Cable TV once again. I checked the diagnostics and freq. 585 is still listed as the carousel frequency. I guess my theory about that didn't hold. I am still having the engineer out Thursday, but really this seems more and more like a hub/router issue that needed reset. Of course there is no way in hell I will every know with direct access to engineering. This has happened before, and I am certain it will happen again. What I will do since I have a long paper trail is get a direct contact # to a field supervisor if reocuurs (it will). At this pace we can play this game forever without real resolution.

I have to say though, and this may or may not be a good thing, is that with the recent problems the CSR's seem to have gotten a little more intelligent. Either that or I have been extremely lucky. The past couple times I have had to call in for an issue they've been fairly on the ball and aware of things rather than sending me through the whole 'reboot/replace the box' two-step.

This is another reason I advocate still calling CSR's to report this stuff. May be like pulling teeth sometimes, but if it's a more widespread outage it helps get them more aware of how far the outage covers and escalate it further as needed til it's all fixed.

That would be great if the CSR's are local. There not! Your routed to a call center, sometimes offshore, and sometimes to a sub-contracted group hired by TW. It's nearly impossible here to get a local rep. I argued Sunday when I called. The rep couldn't seem to understand why my channel line up didn't match what she had. Guess what, she was in another state and would have NO CLUE of any local problem. What a screwed up system. I am sure there are directs but you as a consumer will never know them.

You must not be going through the right system. Every time I have called I get a local person and have even asked. Call the main 877 line and enter your billing number when asked and it should direct you to the right place.

Today affirms my position against TW's internet and phone. I've had no cable since 3PM. Luckily I now have a good OTA setup, which I've had reliable, stable picture on WKYC and WEWS all day. WOIO was breaking up during the heaviest weather, which was no surprise.

Time Warner: The Power of YOU*












*Except in severe weather.

You must not be going through the right system. Every time I have called I get a local person and have even asked. Call the main 877 line and enter your billing number when asked and it should direct you to the right place.

I've called the 877 line and got routed to out of country people. I know this because when I explain what's going on and say I need a card hit they say just a minute I need to transfer you to customer service. Whoa, isn't this customer service? Yes, but we can't send you a hit. And the accent is unmistakeable, you know you are calling out of country.

Also I've been told by TW reps that they are in different call centers. They may still know what's happening in the area, that doesn't mean they are local. They were when it was Adelphia and at the start of TW.

Yes thats 1-877-772-2253. If your in the Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown area, there call centers my friend. It's cost saving big business. It's cheaper to farm it out to call centers paying min. wage, than pay someone $17 bucks an hour and benefits to robotically answer field calls. I know people that work for such a group that handles TW calls. There scripted, given the ole two step reboot, and set up a tech. If you call in the day, don't select tech support on the phone que, select option 3, get a rep, they will transfer you to someone locally. The time you call is everything. If your calling for RoadRunner, it's routed to Akron which has the the ability escalate matters very quickly.

Well as an update I get from work today and viola! Cable TV once again. I checked the diagnostics and freq. 585 is still listed as the carousel frequency. I guess my theory about that didn't hold. I am still having the engineer out Thursday, but really this seems more and more like a hub/router issue that needed reset. Of course there is no way in hell I will every know with direct access to engineering. This has happened before, and I am certain it will happen again. What I will do since I have a long paper trail is get a direct contact # to a field supervisor if reocuurs (it will). At this pace we can play this game forever without real resolution.

Just a word of warning if your problem is now resolved TW will cancel your appointment without any warning to you. That happened to me with a service call for my internet where they found an area outage same day I called.

I strongly suggest calling the 877 number. You should get a message informing you that you have an appointment. If you don't and you still want them to come out, speak to them.

One other thing and you probably know this already but if you continue to get the run around it's steve.fry@twcable.com. I guarantee you'll get a manager call that way.

Yes thats 1-877-772-2253. If your in the Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown area, there call centers my friend. It's cost saving big business. It's cheaper to farm it out to call centers paying min. wage, than pay someone $17 bucks an hour and benefits to robotically answer field calls. I know people that work for such a group that handles TW calls. There scripted, given the ole two step reboot, and set up a tech. If you call in the day, don't select tech support on the phone que, select option 3, get a rep, they will transfer you to someone locally. The time you call is everything. If your calling for RoadRunner, it's routed to Akron which has the the ability escalate matters very quickly.

Ha ha, they don't get paid no 17.00 an hour. More like 10.00 an hour but you're still correct, it's cheaper to farm it out. Still when you call in you may very well get an actual TW rep it just kind of depends.

95% of the time when I am forced to call Time Warner I get an actual Time Warner rep. the other 5% of the time was when my internet was out and I was talking to god knows who

I've never had to talk to an "out of the country" representative. Usually it's just some moron at the local TWC call center.

You might like this:

Cable TV Consumer Hotline available

Staff takes complaints about service, quality, pricing

By Betty Lin-Fisher
Beacon Journal business writer

Published on Sunday, Aug 09, 2009

Last month, fellow columnist Bob Dyer and I wrote separately about issues we'd had with Time Warner Cable. We heard from many of you who had your own pricing and service issues with the cable company.

We also heard from the state's Department of Commerce, which in 2007 established a Cable TV ConsumerHotline .

I either forgot that they had such a hot line or never heard about it, so let me explain what it is.

Teri Finfrock, who oversees the department's video service authorization section that runs the hot line, said her staff is taking comments regarding cable TV service.

A 2007 state law made the department the one-stop shop for cable TV franchises and also for AT&T's U-Verse service. In addition to having the power to authorize those service agreements, the department can take customer complaints.

However, the department does not have authority over satellite TV companies. For those problems, you need to call the Ohio Attorney General's office at 800-282-0515.

If you're having any type of problem with your cable or U-Verse service, you can call the hot line at 800-686-7826. If you'd rather write your complaint, you can get a complaint form at http://com.ohio.gov and look under the middle column for ''Cable TV Consumer Hotline.''

The folks you'll reach work at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which does not regulate cable companies, but does regulate utilities such as traditional telephone, natural gas and electricity companies.

Finfrock said that because her staff is small — three people — it worked well to have the PUCO take the phone calls, sort through them based on jurisdiction and then pass them on to her staff. Her office will return calls the next day.

For example, if a caller is having a problem with the phone service on a cable television line, that would be the jurisdiction of the PUCO.

Time Warner's digital phone service is not a traditional land-line service, but the company has agreed to operate under the state's telephone rules.

Similarly, if you're having issues with AT&T's U-verse, you can call the hot line for television issues and the PUCO would handle phone issues with AT&T.

Finfrock said the folks who answer the call will know whether they can address the problem immediately or if it needs to be forwarded to her cable hot-line staff. If, for instance, you have an Internet or phone problem but it has to do with the pricing or service of your cable, then her group will handle it.

PUCO Investigation and Audit Division Chief Lisa Colosimo, said it makes sense for her staff to take the calls.

''There was a lot of synergy for us to do it. We get cable calls all the time anyway,'' she said.

If you're having a problem, you should always first try to re
solve the issue with the company yourself, Finfrock said.

If it becomes necessary for the hot-line folks to get involved, they'll send the complaint to the company and it's considered an ''escalated complaint and handled by someone at the company with the authority to address the issues,'' she said.

''We see our role as being a facilitator of communications,'' she said.

Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said any customer issues are handled by the customer-service group.

''Similar to when customers contact our customer-service department via phone or the Internet, customer-service issues submitted to us from the Ohio Department of Commerce go to our customer-service group for resolution. It's a very similar process,'' he said.

Since 2007, the hot line has taken 3,900 complaints. It does not break down complaints by company.

Finfrock said the hot line is ready to take complaints regarding pricing, service quality and customer service. Sometimes, people just call to vent and Finfrock said her staff has to ask if there's something specific they can resolve.

The department does not have authority over normal rate increases, so they can't take a complaint if you're upset that your yearly bill is going up, Finfrock said. However, Finfrock said the hot line could have helped in my instance, in which I was told by one cable representative that my renewal price would go up and could not be negotiated, but when I called to cancel I was offered a lower price. The hot line might have helped — although at that point, I was mentally ready to cancel.

Dyer's issue was billing, and the hot line could have helped, too.

Here are the things under law that the cable and U-verse folks have to provide:

• Restore cable service within 72 hours after the customer reports a problem unless the problem was caused by a natural disaster.

• Credit the customer's account for a service interruption (depending on the cause and duration).

• Provide 30 days advance written notice before removing a channel.

• Provide 30 days advance written notice before a rate increase.

• Provide 10 days written notice before disconnecting service.

Finfrock said the hot line can help determine whether you're due credits based on other circumstances, too, such as not having an understanding of prior practices of the company.

The department also has the ability to issue an administrative penalty if the operator violates any regulations and fails to resolve the problem.
Betty Lin-Fisher can be reached at
330-996-3724 or blinfisher@
thebeaconjournal.com.

Last month, fellow columnist Bob Dyer and I wrote separately about issues we'd had with Time Warner Cable. We heard from many of you who had your own pricing and service issues with the cable company.

We also heard from the state's Department of Commerce, which in 2007 established a Cable TV ConsumerHotline .

I either forgot that they had such a hot line or never heard about it, so let me explain what it is.

Teri Finfrock, who oversees the department's video service authorization section that runs the hot line, said her staff is taking comments regarding cable TV service.

A 2007 state law made the department the one-stop shop for cable TV franchises and also for AT&T's U-Verse service. In addition to having the power to authorize those service agreements, the department can take customer complaints.

However, the department does not have authority over satellite TV companies. For those problems, you need to call the Ohio Attorney General's office at 800-282-0515.

If you're having any type of problem with your cable or U-Verse service, you can call the hot line at 800-686-7826. If you'd rather write your complaint, you can get a complaint form at http://com.ohio.gov and look under the middle column for ''Cable TV Consumer Hotline.''

The folks you'll reach work at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which does not regulate cable companies, but does regulate utilities such as traditional telephone, natural gas and electricity companies.

Finfrock said that because her staff is small — three people — it worked well to have the PUCO take the phone calls, sort through them based on jurisdiction and then pass them on to her staff. Her office will return calls the next day.

For example, if a caller is having a problem with the phone service on a cable television line, that would be the jurisdiction of the PUCO.

Time Warner's digital phone service is not a traditional land-line service, but the company has agreed to operate under the state's telephone rules.

Similarly, if you're having issues with AT&T's U-verse, you can call the hot line for television issues and the PUCO would handle phone issues with AT&T.

Finfrock said the folks who answer the call will know whether they can address the problem immediately or if it needs to be forwarded to her cable hot-line staff. If, for instance, you have an Internet or phone problem but it has to do with the pricing or service of your cable, then her group will handle it.

PUCO Investigation and Audit Division Chief Lisa Colosimo, said it makes sense for her staff to take the calls.

''There was a lot of synergy for us to do it. We get cable calls all the time anyway,'' she said.

If you're having a problem, you should always first try to re
solve the issue with the company yourself, Finfrock said.

If it becomes necessary for the hot-line folks to get involved, they'll send the complaint to the company and it's considered an ''escalated complaint and handled by someone at the company with the authority to address the issues,'' she said.

''We see our role as being a facilitator of communications,'' she said.

Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said any customer issues are handled by the customer-service group.

''Similar to when customers contact our customer-service department via phone or the Internet, customer-service issues submitted to us from the Ohio Department of Commerce go to our customer-service group for resolution. It's a very similar process,'' he said.

Since 2007, the hot line has taken 3,900 complaints. It does not break down complaints by company.

Finfrock said the hot line is ready to take complaints regarding pricing, service quality and customer service. Sometimes, people just call to vent and Finfrock said her staff has to ask if there's something specific they can resolve.

The department does not have authority over normal rate increases, so they can't take a complaint if you're upset that your yearly bill is going up, Finfrock said. However, Finfrock said the hot line could have helped in my instance, in which I was told by one cable representative that my renewal price would go up and could not be negotiated, but when I called to cancel I was offered a lower price. The hot line might have helped — although at that point, I was mentally ready to cancel.

Dyer's issue was billing, and the hot line could have helped, too.

Here are the things under law that the cable and U-verse folks have to provide:

• Restore cable service within 72 hours after the customer reports a problem unless the problem was caused by a natural disaster.

• Credit the customer's account for a service interruption (depending on the cause and duration).

• Provide 30 days advance written notice before removing a channel.

• Provide 30 days advance written notice before a rate increase.

• Provide 10 days written notice before disconnecting service.

Finfrock said the hot line can help determine whether you're due credits based on other circumstances, too, such as not having an understanding of prior practices of the company.

The department also has the ability to issue an administrative penalty if the operator violates any regulations and fails to resolve the problem.
Betty Lin-Fisher can be reached at
330-996-3724 or blinfisher@
thebeaconjournal.com.

You know you guys are talking way over my head. This doesn't make sense to me but I'm going to take you at your word and accept that somehow an OTA radio station can affect cable SDV.

The person who does understand and ciukd explain if TW knows about it I've asked for a couple of times. CK where are you and no I don't mean Clark Kent?

The 6th harmonic of WONE will land around that frequency, but the 6th harmonic of any frequency is going to be way, way down in power level from the fundamental frequency. This would have to be some really bad ingress for this to cause interference, but if it is, it's usually easy to fix once the source of the ingress is located. Harmonics are simply multiples of the original frequency. A transmitter will put out it's main frequency, and it will also spit out harmonics of the fundamentak frequency at a level that decreases with each successive harmonic frequency.

A "carousel" is the controller's list of boxes that it has to send instructions to. The carousel will contain a list of all of the boxes in it's scope, and it rolls through the entire list one by one, and when it's done with the list, it starts over again. A mini-carousel is a "short list" of boxes that need immediate hits that can't wait for their turn to come around on the main carousel. After a box has aged off the short list, it goes back on the regular carousel. Both are sent on the same frequency, and that frequency stays put.

Does that help?

Oh and BTW, I bear absolutely no resemblance to Clark Kent! ;)

This would have to be some really bad ingress for this to cause interference, but if it is, it's usually easy to fix once the source of the ingress is located.

They had a terrible time with FMs getting into analog channels 95-97 in the midband... ham radio and pagers would trash channels 18-19... where you have ingress you should also have egress... I used to be able to listen to ESPN on my ham radio the Akron system was so leaky... according to their ads, with most of the system now fiber, that would narrow it down to somewhere after optical to RF conversion...

BTW last check the program guide clock on WVIZ was right on the money... for a time they were gaining a few minutes a day... -Ed

http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/58ef0ffeadff364a66c77d4fb5e447f89875640f/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/ded91f10-6847-012c-ae08-fee29120417d/v2/thumbnail_large

Now that was hilarious!

BTW last check the program guide clock on WVIZ was right on the money... for a time they were gaining a few minutes a day... -Ed

Thanks. It should be referenced to a NIST source now. Gotta love those Cesium fountain clocks (http://tf.nist.gov/cesium/fountain.htm). :)

They had a terrible time with FMs getting into analog channels 95-97 in the midband... ham radio and pagers would trash channels 18-19... where you have ingress you should also have egress...

On more than one occasion I've gone into someone's house to run a new cable drop or something, only to find that somebody plugged the coax running up to what's left of an old outdoor TV antenna into their cable splitter. One guy told me he thought it would help improve his cable reception...

Gotta love those Cesium fountain clocks (http://tf.nist.gov/cesium/fountain.htm). :)

I need to question the sanity of the guys who designed that thing. (Thanks for the link - very interesting.) If some dude started talking to me about bouncing around cesium atoms with lasers to build a better stopwatch, I'd suggest he be confined for observation... :)

I think 585.000MHz is totally FUBAR ans should no longer be used. I just tuned into FOX News and had a Try Again message. I pulled up the diagnostics screen and noticed that the channel was on 585.000MHz. Then I pressed A and the picture appeared. I checked the frequency again and it "jumped" to 567.000MHz. It seems like the entire 585 band is dead. I tried flipping through channels in the area where the SDV channels are. They all were 567 or 573. Looks like my pressing A temporarily dismissed 585, until it comes up again. I have to wonder what would happen if this were a recording starting. I think that's where missed recordings come from.

Every single problem I have ever had is on 585.000MHz.

585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz
585.000MHz

(just in case a TWC troll is reading this topic, I want them to get that through their thick, caveman skulls!:p)

They had a terrible time with FMs getting into analog channels 95-97 in the midband... ham radio and pagers would trash channels 18-19... where you have ingress you should also have egress... I used to be able to listen to ESPN on my ham radio the Akron system was so leaky... according to their ads, with most of the system now fiber, that would narrow it down to somewhere after optical to RF conversion...

BTW last check the program guide clock on WVIZ was right on the money... for a time they were gaining a few minutes a day... -Ed

http://drop.io/download/public/ou06xyoypre6io94nexv/58ef0ffeadff364a66c77d4fb5e447f89875640f/5b07b910-3a50-012b-948a-0012799407ec/ded91f10-6847-012c-ae08-fee29120417d/v2/thumbnail_large

http://lawofhollywoodland.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/governor-arnold-schwarzenegger.jpg
Dat vuss a goot vunn!!!:D:D:D

I Don't understand if 585 MHz is used for SDV then what was FOX 8 doing on there? It should be assigned a permanent frequency, it's not an SDV channel.

And just to clear things up were you tuning WJW, or WJW HD?

I think he was talking about the Fox News Network HD channel, not the local Fox affiliate. ;)

You might like this:

Cable TV Consumer Hotline available

Staff takes complaints about service, quality, pricing

By Betty Lin-Fisher
Beacon Journal business writer

Published on Sunday, Aug 09, 2009

Last month, fellow columnist Bob Dyer and I wrote separately about issues we'd had with Time Warner Cable. We heard from many of you who had your own pricing and service issues with the cable company.

We also heard from the state's Department of Commerce, which in 2007 established a Cable TV ConsumerHotline .

I either forgot that they had such a hot line or never heard about it, so let me explain what it is.

Teri Finfrock, who oversees the department's video service authorization section that runs the hot line, said her staff is taking comments regarding cable TV service.

A 2007 state law made the department the one-stop shop for cable TV franchises and also for AT&T's U-Verse service. In addition to having the power to authorize those service agreements, the department can take customer complaints.

However, the department does not have authority over satellite TV companies. For those problems, you need to call the Ohio Attorney General's office at 800-282-0515.

If you're having any type of problem with your cable or U-Verse service, you can call the hot line at 800-686-7826. If you'd rather write your complaint, you can get a complaint form at http://com.ohio.gov and look under the middle column for ''Cable TV Consumer Hotline.''

The folks you'll reach work at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which does not regulate cable companies, but does regulate utilities such as traditional telephone, natural gas and electricity companies.

Finfrock said that because her staff is small — three people — it worked well to have the PUCO take the phone calls, sort through them based on jurisdiction and then pass them on to her staff. Her office will return calls the next day.

For example, if a caller is having a problem with the phone service on a cable television line, that would be the jurisdiction of the PUCO.

Time Warner's digital phone service is not a traditional land-line service, but the company has agreed to operate under the state's telephone rules.

Similarly, if you're having issues with AT&T's U-verse, you can call the hot line for television issues and the PUCO would handle phone issues with AT&T.

Finfrock said the folks who answer the call will know whether they can address the problem immediately or if it needs to be forwarded to her cable hot-line staff. If, for instance, you have an Internet or phone problem but it has to do with the pricing or service of your cable, then her group will handle it.

PUCO Investigation and Audit Division Chief Lisa Colosimo, said it makes sense for her staff to take the calls.

''There was a lot of synergy for us to do it. We get cable calls all the time anyway,'' she said.

If you're having a problem, you should always first try to re
solve the issue with the company yourself, Finfrock said.

If it becomes necessary for the hot-line folks to get involved, they'll send the complaint to the company and it's considered an ''escalated complaint and handled by someone at the company with the authority to address the issues,'' she said.

''We see our role as being a facilitator of communications,'' she said.

Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said any customer issues are handled by the customer-service group.

''Similar to when customers contact our customer-service department via phone or the Internet, customer-service issues submitted to us from the Ohio Department of Commerce go to our customer-service group for resolution. It's a very similar process,'' he said.

Since 2007, the hot line has taken 3,900 complaints. It does not break down complaints by company.

Finfrock said the hot line is ready to take complaints regarding pricing, service quality and customer service. Sometimes, people just call to vent and Finfrock said her staff has to ask if there's something specific they can resolve.

The department does not have authority over normal rate increases, so they can't take a complaint if you're upset that your yearly bill is going up, Finfrock said. However, Finfrock said the hot line could have helped in my instance, in which I was told by one cable representative that my renewal price would go up and could not be negotiated, but when I called to cancel I was offered a lower price. The hot line might have helped — although at that point, I was mentally ready to cancel.

Dyer's issue was billing, and the hot line could have helped, too.

Here are the things under law that the cable and U-verse folks have to provide:

• Restore cable service within 72 hours after the customer reports a problem unless the problem was caused by a natural disaster.

• Credit the customer's account for a service interruption (depending on the cause and duration).

• Provide 30 days advance written notice before removing a channel.

• Provide 30 days advance written notice before a rate increase.

• Provide 10 days written notice before disconnecting service.

Finfrock said the hot line can help determine whether you're due credits based on other circumstances, too, such as not having an understanding of prior practices of the company.

The department also has the ability to issue an administrative penalty if the operator violates any regulations and fails to resolve the problem.
Betty Lin-Fisher can be reached at
330-996-3724 or blinfisher@
thebeaconjournal.com.

Last month, fellow columnist Bob Dyer and I wrote separately about issues we'd had with Time Warner Cable. We heard from many of you who had your own pricing and service issues with the cable company.

We also heard from the state's Department of Commerce, which in 2007 established a Cable TV ConsumerHotline .

I either forgot that they had such a hot line or never heard about it, so let me explain what it is.

Teri Finfrock, who oversees the department's video service authorization section that runs the hot line, said her staff is taking comments regarding cable TV service.

A 2007 state law made the department the one-stop shop for cable TV franchises and also for AT&T's U-Verse service. In addition to having the power to authorize those service agreements, the department can take customer complaints.

However, the department does not have authority over satellite TV companies. For those problems, you need to call the Ohio Attorney General's office at 800-282-0515.

If you're having any type of problem with your cable or U-Verse service, you can call the hot line at 800-686-7826. If you'd rather write your complaint, you can get a complaint form at http://com.ohio.gov and look under the middle column for ''Cable TV Consumer Hotline.''

The folks you'll reach work at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which does not regulate cable companies, but does regulate utilities such as traditional telephone, natural gas and electricity companies.

Finfrock said that because her staff is small — three people — it worked well to have the PUCO take the phone calls, sort through them based on jurisdiction and then pass them on to her staff. Her office will return calls the next day.

For example, if a caller is having a problem with the phone service on a cable television line, that would be the jurisdiction of the PUCO.

Time Warner's digital phone service is not a traditional land-line service, but the company has agreed to operate under the state's telephone rules.

Similarly, if you're having issues with AT&T's U-verse, you can call the hot line for television issues and the PUCO would handle phone issues with AT&T.

Finfrock said the folks who answer the call will know whether they can address the problem immediately or if it needs to be forwarded to her cable hot-line staff. If, for instance, you have an Internet or phone problem but it has to do with the pricing or service of your cable, then her group will handle it.

PUCO Investigation and Audit Division Chief Lisa Colosimo, said it makes sense for her staff to take the calls.

''There was a lot of synergy for us to do it. We get cable calls all the time anyway,'' she said.

If you're having a problem, you should always first try to re
solve the issue with the company yourself, Finfrock said.

If it becomes necessary for the hot-line folks to get involved, they'll send the complaint to the company and it's considered an ''escalated complaint and handled by someone at the company with the authority to address the issues,'' she said.

''We see our role as being a facilitator of communications,'' she said.

Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said any customer issues are handled by the customer-service group.

''Similar to when customers contact our customer-service department via phone or the Internet, customer-service issues submitted to us from the Ohio Department of Commerce go to our customer-service group for resolution. It's a very similar process,'' he said.

Since 2007, the hot line has taken 3,900 complaints. It does not break down complaints by company.

Finfrock said the hot line is ready to take complaints regarding pricing, service quality and customer service. Sometimes, people just call to vent and Finfrock said her staff has to ask if there's something specific they can resolve.

The department does not have authority over normal rate increases, so they can't take a complaint if you're upset that your yearly bill is going up, Finfrock said. However, Finfrock said the hot line could have helped in my instance, in which I was told by one cable representative that my renewal price would go up and could not be negotiated, but when I called to cancel I was offered a lower price. The hot line might have helped — although at that point, I was mentally ready to cancel.

Dyer's issue was billing, and the hot line could have helped, too.

Here are the things under law that the cable and U-verse folks have to provide:

• Restore cable service within 72 hours after the customer reports a problem unless the problem was caused by a natural disaster.

• Credit the customer's account for a service interruption (depending on the cause and duration).

• Provide 30 days advance written notice before removing a channel.

• Provide 30 days advance written notice before a rate increase.

• Provide 10 days written notice before disconnecting service.

Finfrock said the hot line can help determine whether you're due credits based on other circumstances, too, such as not having an understanding of prior practices of the company.

The department also has the ability to issue an administrative penalty if the operator violates any regulations and fails to resolve the problem.
Betty Lin-Fisher can be reached at
330-996-3724 or blinfisher@
thebeaconjournal.com.

I don't know. After reading through this mess which seems to have repeated information in it a couple of times I've come to the conclusions the A. The actual people who handle this are extremely understaff and B. TW is going to handle it the same way as if the customer called it in himself.

I suppose I would have to try it to see if it actually works, but I still think when your back is against the wall and you are entirely pissed off there is nothing better then an email to Mr. Fry. 2 times I've done that and got complete satisfaction.

I think he was talking about the Fox News Network HD channel, not the local Fox affiliate. ;)

Oh, OK that makes more sense. Well, not really nickdawg has some strong feelings about what he calls Faux News.:D

Speaking about FOX 8 News OMW reported recently that there is no longer a Sky Fox, they've been fired so that's one less HD helicopter in the area. Matter of fact the only helicopter in the area is, (gulp) WOIO. Nothing better then having Rick Able up there talking about what idiots people are on the ground.:rolleyes:

Also has anyone taken a look at WJW's web page? My goodness they have completely stripped down that highly developed My FOX Cleveland page to nothing more then another channels web page. Make no mistake about it these new owners are cheap with a capital C.

I think he was talking about the Fox News Network HD channel, not the local Fox affiliate. ;)

Oh, OK that makes more sense. Well, not really nickdawg has some strong feelings about what he calls Faux News.:D

Yep, it was FNC. I read a topic on HDTV Programming about the show at 3AM premiering in HD and I wanted to see it.

Plus sometimes I like to turn that channel on for a laugh. It should be branded as a comedy channel. That's how I felt when I watched 'Glen Beck' last weekend. ;) So crazy it's funny.

Speaking about FOX 8 News OMW reported recently that there is no longer a Sky Fox, they've been fired so that's one less HD helicopter in the area. Matter of fact the only helicopter in the area is, (gulp) WOIO. Nothing better then having Rick Able up there talking about what idiots people are on the ground.:rolleyes:

Oh great, the screaming hilljack wearing the prison suit is the only air traffic reporter left. I had no clue they still had a chopper, whenever I turn on that channel they have the reporter in studio.

Also has anyone taken a look at WJW's web page? My goodness they have completely stripped down that highly developed My FOX Cleveland page to nothing more then another channels web page. Make no mistake about it these new owners are cheap with a capital C.

That's what happens when you go from network O&O to a company called Local TV LLC.:rolleyes: Another wannabe RayCHEAP. Somedays I feel like we have three Raycheap stations in town: Raycom's own WOIO, Local TV's WJW and Gannett's WKYC.

A "carousel" is the controller's list of boxes that it has to send instructions to. The carousel will contain a list of all of the boxes in it's scope, and it rolls through the entire list one by one, and when it's done with the list, it starts over again. A mini-carousel is a "short list" of boxes that need immediate hits that can't wait for their turn to come around on the main carousel. After a box has aged off the short list, it goes back on the regular carousel. Both are sent on the same frequency, and that frequency stays put.

Does that help?

Oh and BTW, I bear absolutely no resemblance to Clark Kent! ;)

Thanks Cathode for the information. Rumor has it your the expert so perhaps you can shed some light.

From time to time both of my SA STB's lose there SDV server IP address. Nothing, and no amount of rebooting will restore it. It will go days on end in that state and that ultimately you can't watch any of the channel on SDV. is also coupled with the error "Section Filter Timeout". (Thought this was related to DAVIC and MPEG 2) which usually means the software has stopped filtering. Is it a result of lack of SDV server registration or a software error?

Regardless this looks like a network routing issue.

Your thoughts Cathode?

Thanks Cathode for the information. Rumor has it your the expert so perhaps you can shed some light.

From time to time both of my SA STB's lose there SDV server IP address. Nothing, and no amount of rebooting will restore it. It will go days on end in that state and that ultimately you can't watch any of the channel on SDV. is also coupled with the error "Section Filter Timeout". (Thought this was related to DAVIC and MPEG 2) which usually means the software has stopped filtering. Is it a result of lack of SDV server registration or a software error?

Regardless this looks like a network routing issue.

Your thoughts Cathode?

Infoman,

what are your upstream and downstream RF levels? Go to page 1 of the diags and note the FDC and RDC levels. Also look for the BFS QAM level (I forget what page that's on). If they're within acceptable limits the level will show in white. Yellow means marginal and an orangey-red means out of tolerance. The BFS QAM is where the carousel lives, and the other ones are lower bandwidth signalling channels.

Ok, service is about a month old and the PQ is terrible. Everything seems to have a ring around it...if there are letters on the screen you will often be able to see it 3x. We have the basic cable package, no HD. One LCD, one plasma...both looked fine at our old place (cox cable), and OTA HD looked great on both. DVD's look great on both...

CSR said we probably need to upgrade to an HD package and mentioned that we could try getting the HD box. We have the Explorer 8000 now, would the Explorer 8000HD make any difference? Installer said either was fine since we weren't getting an HD package.

If your sets are HD capable I do not know why you haven't went for the HD service already. TWC doesn't charge anything extra for the HD tier or the HD box if you already subscribe to a digital package. May or may not fix the original issue, but the PQ WILL improve FWIW. The SD channels on an HD set do look absolutely horrid but I don't know what you mean precisely by seeing rings around everything.

I would stay away from the Explorer 8000 series boxes though. They are well known to be fairly low grade in the PQ department. Though if you swap for an HD box you should be getting a new 8300HDC depending on your area.

Ok, service is about a month old and the PQ is terrible. Everything seems to have a ring around it...if there are letters on the screen you will often be able to see it 3x. We have the basic cable package, no HD. One LCD, one plasma...both looked fine at our old place (cox cable), and OTA HD looked great on both. DVD's look great on both...

CSR said we probably need to upgrade to an HD package and mentioned that we could try getting the HD box. We have the Explorer 8000 now, would the Explorer 8000HD make any difference? Installer said either was fine since we weren't getting an HD package.

Considering TW doesn't charge extra for non-premium HD channels, I'd definitely go with an HD box. You're watching standard-def on an HD set, which is kind of like watching a baseball game from three miles away with a pair of binoculars with lots of fog in the area.

Don't trust the installer - they know how to hook things up, not what the various packages provide. An HD box should give you access to the HD versions of any available channels you currently receive.

Ok, service is about a month old and the PQ is terrible. Everything seems to have a ring around it...if there are letters on the screen you will often be able to see it 3x. We have the basic cable package, no HD. One LCD, one plasma...both looked fine at our old place (cox cable), and OTA HD looked great on both. DVD's look great on both...

CSR said we probably need to upgrade to an HD package and mentioned that we could try getting the HD box. We have the Explorer 8000 now, would the Explorer 8000HD make any difference? Installer said either was fine since we weren't getting an HD package.

The rings/seeing letters 3x sounds like ghosting, which means you might have a loose wire or bare wire causing interference/ That's a problem because the signal going into your TV is analog from the cable without the box. Fixing that should improve the picture, but the analog SD picture still won't be the same as having the HDTV channels.

If you already subscribe to Basic Service + Expanded Basic, adding a cable box will give you the corresponding HD equivalent of any channel in Expanded Basic. If you get USA and CNN on your current level of service, adding a HDTV box will give you USA HD and CNN HD. There is no additional charge for HDTV channels, unless you want the HDTV Tier(470-473), a premium service like HBO or an extra tier like the Digital Tier, which includes channels like National Geographic, Versus and ESPNU/ESPN News.

A new 8300HDC box will make a world of difference. I've found that the older boxes do not perform as well as the newer boxes. Especially the 8000 series. Most of those are at least four years or five years old. The newer boxes have a faster UI and have the benefit of not being refurbished.

If you decide to get the HD box, have someone come out for a service call. Just adding a HD box won't make the ghosting problems on the analog channels go away. Not everything that is on the analog tier(under 100) is carried in HD, so you'll still be watching many of those channels. have the installer check the line to the TV, any splitters in the house and the drop where the line comes in. If the line is damaged, the connectors are loose or there are little metal "fuzzies" by the connectors on the end of the line, there could be ingress. When analog OTA was still on, I remember some of the channels having problems when I had a bad wire. Even with the problems fixed, channels 70 and 74 still had ghosting issues.

The problem you describe definitely sounds like something is wrong. If I were to flip though my channels now, there are none that have rings around the picture and text is not ghosted.

Infoman,

what are your upstream and downstream RF levels? Go to page 1 of the diags and note the FDC and RDC levels. Also look for the BFS QAM level (I forget what page that's on). If they're within acceptable limits the level will show in white. Yellow means marginal and an orangey-red means out of tolerance. The BFS QAM is where the carousel lives, and the other ones are lower bandwidth signalling channels.

It's on Page 3 of the 8240HDC:
FDC
Freq: 75.00Mhz
Davic: Ready
Level +2db
S/N 34db

RDC
Freq. 23.00Mhz
Power 40db
Delay 0 secs

Not sure what BFS QAM is. This looks like the tuned channel.
Page 4
Status Locked
Freq 771.000Mhz
qam 256
lEVEL 13db
S/N 35db
Secs 1954
Corr Bytes 9
Uncor Bytes 0
EQ Gain 1

These were obtained in the diags menu. Hold power till off/on blinks and hit power one more time. To get to the SDV diags hold select till mail icon blinks, hit chan down x 2. There is nothing in any of these diagnostic pages that report the tuning frequency of the table or BFS QAM freq, only the carousol frequency which is 585:256 and last frequency used 573:256. The screens and I guess this depends on the firmware is quite different than the legacy 8300 boxes. I am in Mahoning/Trumbull county so are division and what hardware and firmware being used may be different. No when it doesn't work this is what you get:

SDV authorized: true
SDV Server registration : state pending
SDV service group ID 0
SDV last initialization time: not available
SDV server ip and port : not avaliable

If your sets are HD capable I do not know why you haven't went for the HD service already. TWC doesn't charge anything extra for the HD tier or the HD box if you already subscribe to a digital package. May or may not fix the original issue, but the PQ WILL improve FWIW. The SD channels on an HD set do look absolutely horrid but I don't know what you mean precisely by seeing rings around everything.

I would stay away from the Explorer 8000 series boxes though. They are well known to be fairly low grade in the PQ department. Though if you swap for an HD box you should be getting a new 8300HDC depending on your area.

Thanks for the help guys.

I swapped out the 2 SD boxes and got an 8300HDC and a 4250HDC. Not having the sluggish menu anymore is great. SD channels still have ghosting and look to have the same PQ, maybe a tad better. If I compare channel 3 to 403 the ghosting appears to be about the same. It is most noticeable long the edges of the picture, where the black bars are, or when the picture is a light color. The separation between the picture and black area is not very clean. Are these channels of lesser quality than the other HD channels or is this PQ about as good as they will get?

Now if I go to channel 451 (SciHD) it looks great and no ghosting at all.

It's amazing how big of a difference there is between my Samsung 42" B450 Plasma and the Vizio 32" VW32l LCD. I have never really compared them until today when setting up the new box and anything with motion on the LCD introduces a lot of noise/artifacts.

When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?

.........
When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?

Try setting the box to PASSTHROUGH as well, allowing your TV to process (upscale/deinterlace) the picture to it's native resolution.
This may not be any better, just depends. But your TV's should have much better video processing than in these cheap cable boxes.

Using PASSTHROUGH on my two plasmas makes a noticeable PQ improvement, particularly on SD content, than the cable boxes.

Thanks for the help guys.


When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?

It doesn't make a difference. Your TV will convert to 720p anyway.

I have an SA 8300 and I don't see any ghosting at all on my 28" LCD. On my other two HD televisions I have TiVo's and quite honestly pq wise it looks good to me considering that the SA 8300 is generally considered an inferior box in general.

BTW I also had an SA 8000 and really despite what others say the only difference is the SA 8300 has a HDMI output. And it's smaller.:)

When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?

Either one of those should be fine. Just don't use 480i or 480p. Both of those formats look awful on a high resolution display. Check what output formats are enabled in the Settings menu. Sometimes the boxes come from TWC set to 480i as a default. If the box is outputting 480i on the SD channels that might be why the PQ is bad on those channels.

It's on Page 3 of the 8240HDC:
FDC
Freq: 75.00Mhz
Davic: Ready
Level +2db
S/N 34db

RDC
Freq. 23.00Mhz
Power 40db
Delay 0 secs

Not sure what BFS QAM is. This looks like the tuned channel.
Page 4
Status Locked
Freq 771.000Mhz
qam 256
lEVEL 13db
S/N 35db
Secs 1954
Corr Bytes 9
Uncor Bytes 0
EQ Gain 1

(snippage)

SDV authorized: true
SDV Server registration : state pending
SDV service group ID 0
SDV last initialization time: not available
SDV server ip and port : not avaliable

Thanks, Infoman. Your FDC and RDC (forward and Return Data Carriers) look ok, but what stands out to me is that a QAM that's sitting way at the top edge of the band is coming in a little hot at +13dbmv. Industry specs call for a range of +15 to -12dbmv for 256 qams. Do you happen to have a 2-way splitter sitting around the house? If you insert that in the path you'll intruduce about 3.2db of attenuation, which will bring that 771mhz carrier down to +9.8dbmv, a little closer to the middle of the range. See if that improves things, including the corrected bytes.

Also try holding down the yellow A key on your remote for a little more than 10 seconds. This forces the box to reacquire it's service group. Then check the diags to see if you have a real number in the service group.

Good luck and let us know how you make out! :)

When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?

If you don't notice any difference, then it doesn't matter. In any case, 720p plasma sets actually convert whatever signal you send to them into their real native resolution, which is actually 768 horizontal rows of pixels, NOT 720. So whatever resolution you set your cable box to, it gets converted yet again in the plasma TV's circuitry. http://www.*******************.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-highdefinition.html

P.S. I have a Toshiba 42" plasma ("720p") and I notice no difference on HD or SD signals when my cable box is set to 720p versus 1080i.

Thanks Cathode. It's hot because there on an Antronix FRA1-1510 drop amp. I did split it and the channel levels decreased. I still am convinced this problem is at network level and nothing related to signal as I have stated. Generally when a client cannot obtain an IP address from a server over a private ethernet network as TW SDV is, 172.29.244.48:23000 it certainly becomes network administrators problem. The HD stations and analog cable always worked, but not the SDV. And to be frank, unless this gets to a level III engineer it will never be resolved in the field. I am not a cable expert, but I am well experienced in network topology. I keep you posted of there findings.

Thanks Cathode. It's hot because there on an Antronix FRA1-1510 drop amp. I did split it and the channel levels decreased. I still am convinced this problem is at network level and nothing related to signal as I have stated. Generally when a client cannot obtain an IP address from a server over a private ethernet network as TW SDV is, 172.29.244.48:23000 it certainly becomes network administrators problem. The HD stations and analog cable always worked, but not the SDV. And to be frank, unless this gets to a level III engineer it will never be resolved in the field. I am not a cable expert, but I am well experienced in network topology. I keep you posted of there findings.

Ah, that explains the 'warm' signals - thanks.

One of the first rules of thumb in these situations is to qualify both the forward and return path. In the case of an RF based network, the integrity of the carriers is a Layer 1 issue just like it is in ethernet topologies. If the hub can't hear the return signal, the box will never register with the SDV server and thus you'll never get an IP. I believe the upstream modulation profile is QPSK, which is a lot more rugged (although slower) than QAM, but even so it's still susceptible to ingress.

I hear you about network issues, Infoman - I'm only looking to rule out all items that you might have some control over.

CK

Thanks for the help guys.

I swapped out the 2 SD boxes and got an 8300HDC and a 4250HDC. Not having the sluggish menu anymore is great. SD channels still have ghosting and look to have the same PQ, maybe a tad better. If I compare channel 3 to 403 the ghosting appears to be about the same. It is most noticeable long the edges of the picture, where the black bars are, or when the picture is a light color. The separation between the picture and black area is not very clean. Are these channels of lesser quality than the other HD channels or is this PQ about as good as they will get?

Now if I go to channel 451 (SciHD) it looks great and no ghosting at all.


One thing hasn't been asked yet that I see notably missing: When you swapped out the boxes for HD models, did you add either HDMI or component video cables between the box and your sets, and did you tell the sets to use the different input? When you said 3 and 403 look about the same, that sets off an alarm in my head.

One thing hasn't been asked yet that I see notably missing: When you swapped out the boxes for HD models, did you add either HDMI or component video cables between the box and your sets, and did you tell the sets to use the different input? When you said 3 and 403 look about the same, that sets off an alarm in my head.

I will bet he's on component but that really shouldn't make a difference. The only true advantage that HDMI has over component is the ability to carry picture and sound with a single wire.
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I also want to thank everybody who felt the need to confirm what I had said about the tv converting the signal.:rolleyes: apparently one answer was not sufficient.

If you want to add 480i or 480p try it, its what works best for you.

All HDTV convert whatever the hd signal is to their native format. This is not exclusive to plasma.

It doesn't make a difference. Your TV will convert to 720p anyway.

Your first statement I agree with. Your second one isn't exactly correct with respect to the OP's plasma set, because all so-called 720p plasma sets have 765 lines horizontally, not 720. So these sets will convert even 720p signals. How well that works will depend on the plasma set. (I don't know anything about the OP's LCD set, so my comments don't apply to that TV).

Using PASSTHROUGH on my two plasmas makes a noticeable PQ improvement, particularly on SD content, than the cable boxes.

The only downside to this may be the delay in displaying a picture when you go to a cable channel that is transmitting at a different resolution than the last channel you viewed.

The only downside to this may be the delay in displaying a picture when you go to a cable channel that is transmitting at a different resolution than the last channel you viewed.

Very true. :)

But everyone gets so caught up in the "everything must be upconverted prior to reaching the TV" and it's really quite silly.

These cheap, old, recycled cable boxes have no better video processing (upscaling, deinterlacing, etc..) than a $40 WalMart upconverting DVD player. If such a lowly video processor does a better (or equal) job as your HDTV than you have either a very old or a very cheap HDTV. ;)

I'll trust the Panny-Sony-Samsung (pick your brand) video processing over Scientific Atlanta's or Motorola's any day for overall PQ at any input resolution. :D

Very true. :)

But everyone gets so caught up in the "everything must be upconverted prior to reaching the TV" and it's really quite silly.

These cheap, old, recycled cable boxes have no better video processing (upscaling, deinterlacing, etc..) than a $40 WalMart upconverting DVD player. If such a lowly video processor does a better (or equal) job as your HDTV than you have either a very old or a very cheap HDTV. ;)

I'll trust the Panny-Sony-Samsung (pick your brand) video processing over Scientific Atlanta's or Motorola's any day for overall PQ at any input resolution. :D

Wiser words, IMHO, have never been spoken.;)

Oh you forgot TiVo.:)

Wiser words, IMHO, have never been spoken.;)

Oh you forgot TiVo.:)

Ha! :)

I have no personal experience with Tivo but I've only heard good things about it's build quality.

I will bet he's on component but that really shouldn't make a difference. The only true advantage that HDMI has over component is the ability to carry picture and sound with a single wire.
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I also want to thank everybody who felt the need to confirm what I had said about the tv converting the signal.:rolleyes: apparently one answer was not sufficient.

If you want to add 480i or 480p try it, its what works best for you.

All HDTV convert whatever the hd signal is to their native format. This is not exclusive to plasma.
If he's seeing ghosting on 403, I'm beginning to wonder if his box is connected to his TV via coax cable! That used to be the "standard" way installers would hook them up.

If he's seeing ghosting on 403, I'm beginning to wonder if his box is connected to his TV via coax cable! That used to be the "standard" way installers would hook them up.

Yikes, that would definitely explain it.

He said he had an SA 8000, and to the best of my knowledge that didn't come in a HD and SD model. Presuming he had SD television and DVR previously they would have hooked it up with a coax cable.

Guess we won't know unless he pops back in here.

Actually, the SA8000 DOES have an HD model. My aunt has one on her HD LCD. Though I don't know whether it's the default setup or not but that is the one I found the first time I came over after it was installed that it was locked at 480i. But it is an HD box and looks identical to the SD 8000 aside from having the expected addition of Component and, in this case, DVI ports.

To the tv scaling discussion above: pbarach is true to a point on one thing: 99.999% of 720p sets are not native 720p but rather usually something like 1366x768 or 1024x768 (non-square pixels) in resolution so they are slightly higher than 720p. It really is a huge debate that will never be won by any other side. It just depends on your taste. Personally I have mine set to output all resolutions to my '720p' set (Panny TH-42PX80U, 1024x768 native. Internal image processor scales everything up to 1080p first and then brings it down to 1024x768). But for some people the channel change delays may be a bit of an annoyance.

My advice is to try both ways and see what you prefer best both in channel change delay, PQ, and so-on and then choose for yourself.

Actually, the SA8000 DOES have an HD model. My aunt has one on her HD LCD. Though I don't know whether it's the default setup or not but that is the one I found the first time I came over after it was installed that it was locked at 480i. But it is an HD box and looks identical to the SD 8000 aside from having the expected addition of Component and, in this case, DVI ports.

OK I think we have a communication problem. I was saying that I didn't think there was a SD version of the SA 8000. I've never seen it and common sense tells me that the model number would have been different. Apparently you have actually seen a SD version?

My advice is to try both ways and see what you prefer best both in channel change delay, PQ, and so-on and then choose for yourself.

My point exactly. Whatever works best for you.;)

OK I think we have a communication problem. I was saying that I didn't think there was a SD version of the SA 8000. I've never seen it and common sense tells me that the model number would have been different. Apparently you have actually seen a SD version?

Ahh. My bad. And yes, there's both SD and HD versions. Model numbers just like the other Explorer models. ie: SA8000 for SD and SA8000HD for HD. We used to have the SD model for some years here before we switched to HD over a year ago and swapped it out for the SA8300HD. And my Aunt has the 8000HD model. Both are identical cosmetically and run MDN as legacy hardware. Only difference I know of is the HD model has added Component, DVI, and Firewire ports and the obligatory storage upgrade to 160GB while the SD version has the common 80GB.

Ahh. My bad. And yes, there's both SD and HD versions. Model numbers just like the other Explorer models. ie: SA8000 for SD and SA8000HD for HD. We used to have the SD model for some years here before we switched to HD over a year ago and swapped it out for the SA8300HD. And my Aunt has the 8000HD model. Both are identical cosmetically and run MDN as legacy hardware. Only difference I know of is the HD model has added Component, DVI, and Firewire ports and the obligatory storage upgrade to 160GB while the SD version has the common 80GB.

Well if they sent him home with a SA 8300 and didn't give him component cables and he turned in a SA 8000 that would make perfect sense in explaining his ghosting problems. Drone behind the counter probably didn't even realize the SA 8000 was not a HD model.

That is certainly a possibility. Especially if it is the MDN 8300HD (I don't know if they are still sending out the 8300HDC's new in box these days or have those dwindled down to sending out returns? The new in box ones always come stock with a decent length and thick set of component cables in the box). Really an easy check for him though if he reads this: Check what the cables are between the box and his tv and where they are connected and also check the display resolution panel in navigator and see what options are checked. Report back and we can get a better idea. :)

I knew it would eventually come to an end. After being happy that 585MHz wasn't being used, it returned last night. I had a "channel not available" channel, so I checked the frequency. It was 585.000MHz. I pressed A, hoping the entire 585 frequency would be dismissed again. That didn't happen. I had picture on a 585.000MHz channel. It was close to the half hour so I decided to stay and watch. The picture breaking up every half hour doesn't happen anymore. Now I have frequent blackouts. I blacked out during CNN today several times. About 30 seconds of frozen screen, then the picture came back. It's so damn annoying.

RE: Video Cables: When you pick up a HD box at TWC, they give you the component video cables. They don't say what you are supposed to do with them, but they do give them to you.

nick: You should fully realise by now when it comes to CSR's that none of this is absolute. ;) For all we know the CSR at the counter just went '*hands box* GET OUT I HAVE A QUOTA TO REACH! NEXT!'. Give the boy a chance to respond to our inquiries then we can sort out the cause for his issues. Because certainly he should not be seeing any ghosting on 403 unless he has something set up wrong like feeding his tv via coax (even using composite, S-Video, or Component would be hard to get ghosting from)

nick: You should fully realise by now when it comes to CSR's that none of this is absolute. ;) For all we know the CSR at the counter just went '*hands box* GET OUT I HAVE A QUOTA TO REACH! NEXT!'. Give the boy a chance to respond to our inquiries then we can sort out the cause for his issues. Because certainly he should not be seeing any ghosting on 403 unless he has something set up wrong like feeding his tv via coax (even using composite, S-Video, or Component would be hard to get ghosting from)

That's what else they do. They give you a RF cable too. So I could see someone using that. Even one of the times a TWC tech installed a box on my TV, he connected the component cables then proceeded to set my TV to channel 4. If I were to put my TV on channel 4 right now the SD and HD channels would look the same because it all looks like crap.

I'll bet the person in question has their TV on channel 4, that's why there is ghosting and bad PQ.

Ah, that explains the 'warm' signals - thanks.

One of the first rules of thumb in these situations is to qualify both the forward and return path. In the case of an RF based network, the integrity of the carriers is a Layer 1 issue just like it is in ethernet topologies. If the hub can't hear the return signal, the box will never register with the SDV server and thus you'll never get an IP. I believe the upstream modulation profile is QPSK, which is a lot more rugged (although slower) than QAM, but even so it's still susceptible to ingress.

I hear you about network issues, Infoman - I'm only looking to rule out all items that you might have some control over.

CK

Well here is the update after the tech guy came. There is nothing wrong with the amp, wiring, signal strength, splitters or other. Confirmed it is indeed a network issue which he will write up and send up the ladder. Now I will take that with a grain of salt.

What is percurious about this SDV setup from what I was told is the fact your neighbor may have service but you may not. From what was explained it's related to the service group which is assigned and thats not by node or neighborhood. You could be part of the same SDV group as someone living miles away if that makes any sense. For that matter my second box could work and the other not!

Can someone confirm this? It certainly would generate a lot of uneeded services calls in multiple areas during failure, one would assume.
But I suppose its no different than any other networking arrangement where there is multiple clients, a gateway, an assigned group and a server. I also would assume the network is monitored in realtime to diagnose and repair these types of bothersome quirks. The problem is no one knows about them and they are not fixed in a timely fashion.

Well here is the update after the tech guy came. There is nothing wrong with the amp, wiring, signal strength, splitters or other. Confirmed it is indeed a network issue which he will write up and send up the ladder. Now I will take that with a grain of salt.

What is percurious about this SDV setup from what I was told is the fact your neighbor may have service but you may not. From what was explained it's related to the service group which is assigned and thats not by node or neighborhood. You could be part of the same SDV group as someone living miles away if that makes any sense. For that matter my second box could work and the other not!

Can someone confirm this? It certainly would generate a lot of uneeded services calls in multiple areas during failure, one would assume.
But I suppose its no different than any other networking arrangement where there is multiple clients, a gateway, an assigned group and a server. I also would assume the network is monitored in realtime to diagnose and repair these types of bothersome quirks. The problem is no one knows about them and they are not fixed in a timely fashion.

Infoman, have you tried the trick with the "A" key yet? This could reveal something useful whether it works or not.

RE: Video Cables: When you pick up a HD box at TWC, they give you the component video cables. They don't say what you are supposed to do with them, but they do give them to you.

Nickdawg and Vchat20:

When I turned in my STB for the SA 8300 I only received the box. Nothing else was discussed or offered. It was pulled off a shelf with a bunch if SA8000 HD which at first I was told was all they had but she "found" one.

Now I think they do have them in the box but they are distributing them only to certain areas such as the old Comcast area. So I think its entirely possible that the OP did not get component cables.

F TWC and their stupid HD channels. I recorded a movie on F/X HD tonight and out of the three hours(8-11pm), I had a 2:35 recorded program. The end of the 2:35 was the end of the movie. That means the picture must have been freezing during the recording and those parts are subtracted.

So thank you very much TWC!! That's why I have a DVR: so I can record stuff and watch shows with part of the content missing. Too bad I didn't know about this before the same show aired at 11pm, SO I COULD HAVE TAPED IT ON THE ANALOG CHANNEL OF F/X!! Instead I have a jacked up movie. So much for having these movie channels in HD.

Yes, but there is no indication it works on the 8240. After pressing for 15secs and releasing it simply displays the access menu. Don't know if it works or not. Next time it goes goofy I'll try it. From my end there is truely nothing more I can do. My assumption is there are problems with there system, and at this rate there going to lose more customers than keep them!

F TWC and their stupid HD channels. I recorded a movie on F/X HD tonight and out of the three hours(8-11pm), I had a 2:35 recorded program. The end of the 2:35 was the end of the movie. That means the picture must have been freezing during the recording and those parts are subtracted.


Possible but I doubt it. I'll bet it just stopped recording on you and that's why you have a partial.

Certainly with the troubles we've experienced with SDV one might think that but more then likely the pieces missing are on the back end. And I think you are experiencing what I've been saying since day one: That the SA 8300 is an unreliable pos and does partial recordings.

Just because you never experienced it before doesn't mean you're not experiencing it now. If you still got it take a look, I'll bet the last 25 minutes is missing.

Yes, but there is no indication it works on the 8240. After pressing for 15secs and releasing it simply displays the access menu. Don't know if it works or not. Next time it goes goofy I'll try it. From my end there is truely nothing more I can do. My assumption is there are problems with there system, and at this rate there going to lose more customers than keep them!
8240? What the heck are you talking about? No such DVR unless that's the new one from Samsung.

It should be displaying IIRC a service group number, it forces to connect. If it's not doing that something is definitely wrong.

I'll let CK come back and take it from there. They had me do the push the A key thing once also and I didn't see anything happen but I believe it did show service group number.

The 8240 is essentially the 8300HDC just the more specific model number. Don't ask me why on the semantics, just the way it is. 8240 and 8300HDC are interchangeable.

Using PASSTHROUGH on my two plasmas makes a noticeable PQ improvement, particularly on SD content, than the cable boxes.

No noticeable PQ improvement, nor did it slow down channel changing. Will have to play with it a little more though.

If he's seeing ghosting on 403, I'm beginning to wonder if his box is connected to his TV via coax cable! That used to be the "standard" way installers would hook them up.

The installer did originally make a custom fit coax for each HDTV. I tried tightening them, using a new cable, jiggling cable..etc., because I remembered from the old days that I had to jiggle every now and again to get a good signal.

When I swapped out boxes I specifically asked for the 8300HDC with HDMI, and for component cables, because I don't have any extra HDMI's laying around currently. She supplied me with two new sets of components. So I'm running components for now until I find a good deal on some HDMI's.

Both boxes are used and abused...scratches, dings, dents, etc...lol. Remotes looked brand new.

The rep started of kinda mean, but I got her to warm up a little. I was the only person in there so it seemed like I was bugging her at first. She also gave me instructions on how to set the format on the boxes.

The 480s have been unchecked, so I only have 1080i and 720p as an option in the menu now. Have been playing back and fourth to see if I can notice any difference...nothing yet.

That's what else they do. They give you a RF cable too. So I could see someone using that. Even one of the times a TWC tech installed a box on my TV, he connected the component cables then proceeded to set my TV to channel 4. If I were to put my TV on channel 4 right now the SD and HD channels would look the same because it all looks like crap.

I'll bet the person in question has their TV on channel 4, that's why there is ghosting and bad PQ.

TV is set to "component" source...If I change to channel 4 I get snow.

So I'm running components for now until I find a good deal on some HDMI's.

For all your cable needs it's www.monoprice.com. You won't find better prices for HDMI cables.

However having said that I will say again that I doubt you will see much if any difference between HDMI and component. It does reduce the amount of cables you need to use though.

I can't believe they actually hooked up a HD television with coaxial cable!

Possible but I doubt it. I'll bet it just stopped recording on you and that's why you have a partial.

Certainly with the troubles we've experienced with SDV one might think that but more then likely the pieces missing are on the back end. And I think you are experiencing what I've been saying since day one: That the SA 8300 is an unreliable pos and does partial recordings.

Just because you never experienced it before doesn't mean you're not experiencing it now. If you still got it take a look, I'll bet the last 25 minutes is missing.

No. I looked at the end, at 2:34 the credits and the network advertising crap started. The film ended 25 minutes early with blank space left on the bar. I've seen partial recordings before, like you described. Those cut off right in the middle of the show. This is definitely something different. Something related to the evil SDV.

8240? What the heck are you talking about? No such DVR unless that's the new one from Samsung.

It should be displaying IIRC a service group number, it forces to connect. If it's not doing that something is definitely wrong.

I'll let CK come back and take it from there. They had me do the push the A key thing once also and I didn't see anything happen but I believe it did show service group number.

The Explorer 8240HDC with separable M-Card and is a current product being distributed by TW. The 8300HDC is the same except it has the front panel aux video connections.

As far as displaying IIRC (don't know what that is) the diagnostic screens with the firmware it is running (and it is current) are different than the legacy 8300HD version of the box. The holding "A" key down with current firmware in this division doesn't work. Diagnostics are obtained by pressing and holding the power key till the on/off blinks, then another push. This is true even with the legacy 8300HD boxes running TW software. This is the way our division is here and it is NEO. As far as service group, whats listed currently 37515 in both the Diagnostic Menu and the SDV menu. (Accessed by holding select on the remote, then channel down twice.)

I have already concluded something is wrong. The SDV manager component is what is responsible for managing the service group and sending along the IP address of the server. It also manages users leaving or tuning to another station, carousel slots, bandwidth reallocation, etc. With that said it remains a network level problem with either hardware malfunction or mis-configured parameters. Not knowing TW network topology I couldn't tell you if there are several servers, or a centralized main somewhere. It's truely IPTV in a nutshell.

For all your cable needs it's www.monoprice.com. You won't find better prices for HDMI cables.

However having said that I will say again that I doubt you will see much if any difference between HDMI and component. It does reduce the amount of cables you need to use though.

I can't believe they actually hooked up a HD television with coaxial cable!

Thanks for reminding me of monoprice...

Yea, after thinking about it for awhile I kinda figured coax was wrong. I called in and inquired as to why they didn't give us HD boxes and who I should bill the 19.99 installation charge to since I have to uninstall the SD boxes and re-install the HD boxes. The guy on the phone chuckled and opened a ticket for a manager of some sort to call back. He said I would get a call in 24hrs...no call as of yet...48 hours later.

Thanks for reminding of monoprice...

Yea, after thinking about it for awhile I kinda figured coax was wrong. I called in and inquired as to why they didn't give us HD boxes and who I should bill the 19.99 installation charge to since I have to uninstall the SD boxes and re-install the HD boxes. The guy on the phone chuckled and opened a ticket for a manager of some sort to call back. He said I would get a call in 24hrs...no call as of yet...48 hours later.

Two things you can do. You can email them and probably get a better response, VChat20 has the email address, I don't but you can also get it at the TW Site. Or if you're really pissed off and tired of getting jerked around you can email www.steve.fry@twcable.com. That's the President of TW NEO and I guarantee you will get a call back from a manager.

There shouldn't be any need for a call back really, the CSR rightfully should have refund your install charge. What idiots.

No. I looked at the end, at 2:34 the credits and the network advertising crap started. The film ended 25 minutes early with blank space left on the bar. I've seen partial recordings before, like you described. Those cut off right in the middle of the show. This is definitely something different. Something related to the evil SDV.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The last part of the show didn't get recorded and that's how all my partials were with the SA 8300.

You probably are right and it's SDV. I've had two shows on my TiVo do partial recordings, both on USA and I was stunned because, well,l I have a TiVo and that crap just doesn't happen.;)

I can't recall when those shows were recorded but it was probably in June. I have not had any partials since.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The last part of the show didn't get recorded and that's how all my partials were with the SA 8300.

You probably are right and it's SDV. I've had two shows on my TiVo do partial recordings, both on USA and I was stunned because, well,l I have a TiVo and that crap just doesn't happen.;)

I can't recall when those shows were recorded but it was probably in June. I have not had any partials since.

One possible cause of incomplete recordings is the STB is polling. If there is no activity from the remote control for a predetermined amount time, and the box is polled, it will release the SDV channel back into the pool freeing up that bandwidth. Splat!!! goes the recording! You can check in the diagnostics the next time/date the box will be polled. Apparently there isn't a workaround, or more like the developers were not smart enough to distinquish between a DVR recording or just holding a channel. As an example some folks leave the STB box on all the time which would tie up a slot. If 100 users did it, you would soon see "channel not available" If it's tuned to an SDV channel for a long period of time; lets say overnight. The next time the TV is turned on you will get a floating blue TW box on the screen with the time. You have officially been polled. This obviously is something that will need attention, since the purpose of a DVR is unattended recording.

Actually, recordings should be bypassing the 'idle timeout' on SDV from what has been posted over in the Navigator thread. The box will report back to the SDV server as channels are tuned exactly what it is being tuned for be it live viewing, unattended recordings, etc..

I think it would be a MAJOR oversight even for TWC to leave that bug in there for the box to rescind the channel during a recording just because the box went idle.

It wouldn't be the first oversight! What I have personally noticed is when the STB power is "off" it will complete a lengthy recording. If it is on, it gets polled and the recording chokes. IMHO this is a software glitch. I guess the next question is: What is the idle timeout set to?

One possible cause of incomplete recordings is the STB is polling. If there is no activity from the remote control for a predetermined amount time, and the box is polled, it will release the SDV channel back into the pool freeing up that bandwidth. Splat!!! goes the recording! You can check in the diagnostics the next time/date the box will be polled. Apparently there isn't a workaround, or more like the developers were not smart enough to distinquish between a DVR recording or just holding a channel. As an example some folks leave the STB box on all the time which would tie up a slot. If 100 users did it, you would soon see "channel not available" If it's tuned to an SDV channel for a long period of time; lets say overnight. The next time the TV is turned on you will get a floating blue TW box on the screen with the time. You have officially been polled. This obviously is something that will need attention, since the purpose of a DVR is unattended recording.

Just in case you are not aware, TiVos don't have an off switch and therefore if you do leave it on a SDV channel it will constantly be on.

I even leave it on MLB extra innings when games are not being shown and it doesn't get this blue screen you describe. I have seen it go to a grey screen and I know that SDV does that because a channel up and a channel down brings it right back. But that very rarely happens. The fact that it doesn't happen very often makes me wonder how this SDV stuff really works.

Sometimes and mostly on CNN HD I see the "are you still watching" message. But I don't see that often.

Your correct hookbill, but now where talking two different pieces of hardware and software. Is that TIVO using a tuning adapter? They may just got it right with TA. I just checked, my next poll time is 11:36PM tonight. I set up a recording for 11:30PM and will check to see if it's working correctly leaving the STB powered.

Your correct hookbill, but now where talking two different pieces of hardware and software. Is that TIVO using a tuning adapter? They may just got it right with TA. I just checked, my next poll time is 11:36PM tonight. I set up a recording for 11:30PM and will check to see if it's working correctly leaving the STB powered.

Yes got to have T.A. or no SDV. What's interesting about the T.A. Is it has the exact same diagnostic menu as the SA 8300. I have no idea how that works with TiVo in regards to "checking in" with a SDV channel. The tuner adapter stays on constantly as well.

Thats pretty interested, but I know little about the TA. I have TW's DVR and it has been a while since a recording has choked. Anyway that 11:36PM time I quoted is GMT so that moves my test back to 8:30PM EST. Interesting I checked my other HD box, an Explorer 4250HDC and it lists the exact same poll time. It appears that polling time frame is set at the SDV manager and may not be related to remote inactivity. Switching channels has no effect of change to the poll time. (unless there is some invisiable watchdog timer) Whats odd is it would have no idea if your really watching or not. It may just a random event to clear channels if there is no user intravention with the pop up. When recording it should be programmed with some sort of flag indicating recorded content. Only the developer knows for sure....

I kind of thought it might be on some kind of a polling device. Remember when I said I caught those messages on CNN HD? I noticed that they were about the same time of day, I would say around 4:00 pm.

Looks like SDV isn't as sophisticated as I thought. Well I guess we all realize that now.

Yes, but there is no indication it works on the 8240. After pressing for 15secs and releasing it simply displays the access menu. Don't know if it works or not. Next time it goes goofy I'll try it. From my end there is truely nothing more I can do. My assumption is there are problems with there system, and at this rate there going to lose more customers than keep them!

The way to determine whether it's successful is to go to the SDV diags pages and see if there's a number (other than 0) in the Service Group field.

Seems to always have the 37515 in that field which may be appropriate for my region, and hub ID.

Just in case you are not aware, TiVos don't have an off switch and therefore if you do leave it on a SDV channel it will constantly be on.

I even leave it on MLB extra innings when games are not being shown and it doesn't get this blue screen you describe. I have seen it go to a grey screen and I know that SDV does that because a channel up and a channel down brings it right back. But that very rarely happens. The fact that it doesn't happen very often makes me wonder how this SDV stuff really works.

Sometimes and mostly on CNN HD I see the "are you still watching" message. But I don't see that often.

Tito doesn't have an on/off switch? Seriously? Even the lowest grade cable STB does. That must be bad for the hard drive. SA recommends turning off the box when the TV is turned off to cut down on hard drive wear.

Tito doesn't have an on/off switch? Seriously? Even the lowest grade cable STB does. That must be bad for the hard drive. SA recommends turning off the box when the TV is turned off to cut down on hard drive wear.

I thought this had been discussed before but maybe I'm thinking of the TiVo S3 thread. Anyway the hard drives made in today DVRs do not need to shut down in fact they are built to be on 24/7. I know I read somewhere that on the SA 8300 the hard drive will slow down in early morning hours if left on. This is not necessary nor beneficial with TiVo.

Now I know you're thinking that can't be right but trust me its the way it works. Perhaps Vchat20 or someone else can be more specific as to how this works. I can't provide any specific details. Strand because I could have sworn I read that in this thread.

Well I can tell you the Western Digital Drive in the 8300 is nothing special. WD1600AAJB retails for 50 bucks. Its no different than any other drive WD makes and they all have a MTBF rate. 24/7 might get ya 3 years before it poofs. What is reason there is no power switch?

Well I can tell you the Western Digital Drive in the 8300 is nothing special. WD1600AAJB retails for 50 bucks. Its no different than any other drive WD makes and they all have a MTBF rate. 24/7 might get ya 3 years before it poofs. What is reason there is no power switch?

TiVo does have a stand by mode but it is my understanding that hard drive activity continues. When you take it off stand by the timer bar will still have an hour of recorded programming. I've never tried it myself so I'm going on other peoples info. TiVo has never had a true off switch. As far as the hard drive goes I don't believe there is anything special about it. I've had my S3 for 3 years next month and its working fine. The only thing I do to help it out is elevate the unit so it stays cool. The air vents are on the bottom of the unit.

I know that I read the explanation for hard drive wear either in this thread or another.

That must be bad for the hard drive. SA recommends turning off the box when the TV is turned off to cut down on hard drive wear.

Actually, SA recommends turning off the box because saying "just leave it on" would tick off the environmentalist wackos. (Nothing wrong with being an environmentalist, but some take it a bit too far...)

After years of experience with hundreds of hard drives, most running 24/7, some on/off for business hours, I've had WAY fewer problems with drives that run 24/7.

Interesting... I'm gonna keep shutting off the box, in case that "3 year hard drive" is true. Just to let my feelings about Tito be known(since I usually hold back ;)) I think there should be a power off button. I think it would suck to pay so much for a box, only to have it fail in a few years. At least with TWC the entire box can be replaced. Only downside is you might get a refurbished box or one of those sh-tty new Samsung boxes. Doesn't bother me much because I could do just fine with a box that doesn't record. I recorded a movie on Thursday and that was the first thing I recorded in a month. Don't plan on recording anything again soon based on my experience with that recording. Sick of dealing with partial recordings.

There's little to no difference between Tivo's suspend feature and hitting the power button on an SA box, other than the power button is a little easier than going through the steps on the Tivo remote. Both power down a chunk (not all) of the internal electronics and stop the hard drive, and both power up the drive under various conditions - recording shows, receiving software or program guide updates, etc.

I leave my SA8300 and Tivo on all the time. The Tivo is so quiet, it's hard to tell when the drive stop/start (both internal and external). I often hear the SA HD stop/start on a regular basis - not sure what the pattern is...

Actually, SA recommends turning off the box because saying "just leave it on" would tick off the environmentalist wackos. (Nothing wrong with being an environmentalist, but some take it a bit too far...)

After years of experience with hundreds of hard drives, most running 24/7, some on/off for business hours, I've had WAY fewer problems with drives that run 24/7.

I have to agree with this completely. Anyone giving any bunk like this about drives dying a short death from continuous use needs to really examine use cycles outside worst case scenario 'guesses'. I even have drives here that have been in semi-24/7 use that are nearly a decade old and are still going strong. And some of those have been fairly well abused.

You also have to remember that these drives in every one of these DVR's whether it be Tivo's, SA's, Motorolas, or Samsungs, are all made to be run in a DVR environment so they are made to handle 24/7 use for years in a rough CE-focused environment. Here's the excerpt of one of Western Digital's DVR focused disks:
Long-Term Reliability - With a MTBF of 1 million hours, these drives are designed to last in high temperature always-on streaming digital audio/video environments such as PVR/DVR, DVR recorders and surveillance video recorders.
Quiet - Noise levels have been minimized to less than one sone* - virtually below the threshold of human hearing.
Low Power Consumption - WD AV drives deliver best-in-class low power consumption for reduced system power requirements and increased reliability.
Note: 3.3V SATA power is not available in this product
Compatible - Tested for compatibility in a broad range of AV products including set top boxes, DVD recorders, and mainstream surveillance systems.
SilkStream - Optimized for smooth, continuous digital video playback of up to twelve simultaneous HD streams**. SilkStream is compatible with the ATA streaming command set so CE customers can use standard streaming management and error recovery options.
IntelliSeek - Calculates optimum seek speeds to lower power consumption, noise and vibration. View demo >
Ramp Load - Parks the recording heads off the disk surface during spin up, spin down and when the drive is off. This ensures the recording head never touches the disk surface resulting in improved long term reliability due to less head wear, and improved non-operational shock tolerance.
Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL) - The drive arm frequently sweeps across the disk to reduce uneven wear on the drive surface common to audio video streaming applications.
* A sone is a subjective unit of loudness as perceived by a person with normal hearing.
** Assumes Host Transfer Block size of 2 MB per stream.
I want to emphasize the always-on reference at the top there too.

The only case where I would expect a drive to fail in a short amount of time if it is intentionally abused in a physical fashion (not giving the DVR enough airflow causing operating temps to skyrocket, drop-kicking it, dragging it behind your car *ahem* hookdawg ;) )

I have only really had three of many, MANY drives fail me over the years. One was a circa '00 IBM Deskstar and destined to fail on it's own but lasted MUCH longer than I expected it to under continuous use, another was a circa '96 Quantum drive that probably failed more due to being in extended storage of a number of years and brought back into service, and then a 120GB 2.5" Seagate which was mostly due to heat in a poorly designed laptop (operating temps regularly hitting 60C+ and running nearly 24/7 for probably near a year of service). Beyond those cases, I have nearly a dozen here of various vintages that are still kicking with no sign of any impending death and running on a near 24/7 basis. And these are just your standard off-the-shelf desktop use drives.

To be quite honest, I'd expect MORE wear out of letting the box regularly spin down the drive when it goes into sleep mode over just letting it run constantly.

(I would have used the Maxtor Quickview drives for reference since they are actually the primary choice of drives for these SA boxes, but I can no longer find the product page on the Maxtor site for them.)

I have to agree with this completely. Anyone giving any bunk like this about drives dying a short death from continuous use needs to really examine use cycles outside worst case scenario 'guesses'. I even have drives here that have been in semi-24/7 use that are nearly a decade old and are still going strong. And some of those have been fairly well abused.

You also have to remember that these drives in every one of these DVR's whether it be Tivo's, SA's, Motorolas, or Samsungs, are all made to be run in a DVR environment so they are made to handle 24/7 use for years in a rough CE-focused environment. Here's the excerpt of one of Western Digital's DVR focused disks:

I want to emphasize the always-on reference at the top there too.

The only case where I would expect a drive to fail in a short amount of time if it is intentionally abused in a physical fashion (not giving the DVR enough airflow causing operating temps to skyrocket, drop-kicking it, dragging it behind your car *ahem* hookdawg ;) )

I have only really had three of many, MANY drives fail me over the years. One was a circa '00 IBM Deskstar and destined to fail on it's own but lasted MUCH longer than I expected it to under continuous use, another was a circa '96 Quantum drive that probably failed more due to being in extended storage of a number of years and brought back into service, and then a 120GB 2.5" Seagate which was mostly due to heat in a poorly designed laptop (operating temps regularly hitting 60C+ and running nearly 24/7 for probably near a year of service). Beyond those cases, I have nearly a dozen here of various vintages that are still kicking with no sign of any impending death and running on a near 24/7 basis. And these are just your standard off-the-shelf desktop use drives.

To be quite honest, I'd expect MORE wear out of letting the box regularly spin down the drive when it goes into sleep mode over just letting it run constantly.

(I would have used the Maxtor Quickview drives for reference since they are actually the primary choice of drives for these SA boxes, but I can no longer find the product page on the Maxtor site for them.)

In theory they should last a long time. 1 million hours is more of a marketing gimmick than reality. (You do the math) In DVR's and similar devices you can expect 3 - 5 years.
TW's DVR's boxes come back in droves. 1 - 2 years tops, and most with failed disk. Just ask any TW insider. And Tivo is no different. The HD technology has become better but not that good. The biggest killer of drives is heat, not constant operation. Heat drys out the bearings prematurely. I have never had a data drive fail in 20 years, but I have had 3 of them go over the years in the DVR.

In theory they should last a long time. 1 million hours is more of a marketing gimmick than reality. (You do the math) In DVR's and similar devices you can expect 3 - 5 years.
TW's DVR's boxes come back in droves. 1 - 2 years tops, and most with failed disk. Just ask any TW insider. And Tivo is no different. The HD technology has become better but not that good. The biggest killer of drives is heat, not constant operation. Heat drys out the bearings prematurely. I have never had a data drive fail in 20 years, but I have had 3 of them go over the years in the DVR.


You say TiVo is no different? I think you should look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469) and get back to me on that.;)

You say TiVo is no different? I think you should look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469) and get back to me on that.;)

Perhaps I should clarify. In terms of hard drive reliability there is zero difference. I have seen Tivo HD failure at the 1 and 3 year point. Beyond that point consumers replace the entire unit usually attributed to technology change.

As far as the feature set, flexibility and stability, Tivo is far superior to any cable company branded service. Lets not forget DVR was born to directly compete with TIVO technology as was Mystro, and the cable companies are winning!

In the end you really have to run the numbers and determine what works best for you. Is it more economical to just pay the monthly cable rental fee, which covers all failures at 100% or invest in TIVO, pay a monthly or upfront lifetime fee which does not cover failure. With an expected lifespan of 5 years which is typical before you'll replace the Tivo, replace a drive or two, or the technology changes it may not be worth the cost and effort. It's cheaper to use the cable co. dvr box. Enter SDV and now your paying another $5 month for a tuning adapter, and that cost is likely to increase over time. The cable co's are going to get there share one way or another!

In the end you really have to run the numbers and determine what works best for you. Is it more economical to just pay the monthly cable rental fee, which covers all failures at 100% or invest in TIVO, pay a monthly or upfront lifetime fee which does not cover failure. With an expected lifespan of 5 years which is typical before you'll replace the Tivo, replace a drive or two, or the technology changes it may not be worth the cost and effort. It's cheaper to use the cable co. dvr box. Enter SDV and now your paying another $5 month for a tuning adapter, and that cost is likely to increase over time. The cable co's are going to get there share one way or another!

Well, when you start talking about comparative cost it's like asking me would I prefer to drive a Chevy or a Lexus. Both will get me from point A to point B, well possibly I don't have that much faith in the SA 8300 but for the sake of this post lets say it does. I chose TiVo for reliability and for the high tech aspect of it. For me cost was not the issue. And if cost is an issue then bottom line is you need to look at the SA 8300.

And not to nit pick but that 5.00 charge for tuning adapter is non existent the tuner adapter is free. We do pay 3 to 6.00 for cable cards however we don't pay for the DVR so that's kind of break even.

Well, when you start talking about comparative cost it's like asking me would I prefer to drive a Chevy or a Lexus. Both will get me from point A to point B, well possibly I don't have that much faith in the SA 8300 but for the sake of this post lets say it does. I chose TiVo for reliability and for the high tech aspect of it. For me cost was not the issue. And if cost is an issue then bottom line is you need to look at the SA 8300.

And not to nit pick but that 5.00 charge for tuning adapter is non existent the tuner adapter is free. We do pay 3 to 6.00 for cable cards however we don't pay for the DVR so that's kind of break even.

I agree you with 100% It's all about what you want and how much your willing to pay for it. As for the tuning adapter your fortunate. In some TW markets they are not and will not be supported! It is something that is not required by the FCC, so your at there mercy. Apologies for my error, the tuning adapter is free, it was cable card customers that had the option of a free adapter for 6 months then a $5 month fee in NEO. Essentially you are paying a premium for a DVR (Tivo), the hardware cost, and the monthly subscription so your not making a fair comparison. Its a streach to call it break even.

I agree you with 100% It's all about what you want and how much your willing to pay for it. As for the tuning adapter your fortunate. In some TW markets they are not and will not be supported! It is something that is not required by the FCC, so your at there mercy. Apologies for my error, the tuning adapter is free, it was cable card customers that had the option of a free adapter for 6 months then a $5 month fee in NEO.

No apologies necessary. It's my understanding however that while there is no requirement for a cable company to provide a tuner adapter there is an agreement with all cable companies and TiVo on the ability to get a tuner adapter. If the area has SDV you should be able to get a tuner adapter. Now as to whether or not you pay for it, that I don't know and I wouldn't be surprised if indeed we are charged for it further on down the line.

Found a link that goes into some details for you.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-05/sdv-tuning-adapters-in-the-flesh/

Edit: That must be a Moto on top of that TiVo box because mine is much larger. Or it was just a prototype of some sort.

How does this Tivo thing integrate with the cable? It appears you could eliminate the digital set top box altogether, would that be correct? Thats a $7 or $8 charge every month. This may be more cost effective than I orginally thought.

How does this Tivo thing integrate with the cable? It appears you could eliminate the digital set top box altogether, would that be correct? Thats a $7 or $8 charge every month. This may be more cost effective than I orginally thought.

Correct, the TiVo is the STB. It's also capable of OTA and can do both at the same time.

I have read on other threads where people have figured out that it's actually a cost saving over renting a cable box in the long run. It takes a couple of years but you should get your money back in savings overall. And with the new m cards there is only a need for a single cable card, not two like what I currently have so you save an additional 3 bucks on the cable card.

Just an FYI I have a S3 and a TiVo HD. That's 4 cable cards for me. The S3 can only use the S card the TiVo HD can use either S or M.

I also have an SA 8300. My wife records big brother on it, I rarely even look at it.

Is the M-Card a dual tuner? Meaning can you record an HD content source and watch another even though both may be SDV?

Is the M-Card a dual tuner? Meaning can you record an HD content source and watch another even though both may be SDV?

Correct. M card is a dual tuner and yes you can watch one show while recording one or two shows just like with the SA 8300.

TiVo goes way beyond just cable. It works with the internet as well, you can access YouTube, stream HD movies from Netflix and Amazon Unbox. You can play mp3's from your computer using the wireless network in your home. It's really a total package of technology.

Seems like I've peeked your curiosity a bit.:cool: I'll admit I'm quite a fanboy of TiVo but there is a reason why I like it so much. Take your searches for example. With TW's boxes you have to know what day the show is on just to do a simple search. TiVo you just type in the shows name and you set up your recordings. It also has a wishlist which can be used several ways like if you want to record films by a certain director, it can find those for you...even if they arn't available at the time you're searching.

Those are two of my favorite features.

This will require further investigation. I love toys.

I'm personally a fan of a WMC HTPC myself for various reasons. One being that it goes even beyond Tivo's feature-set. Taking your own analogy hookbill: Cable STV would be a Chevy, Tivo a Lexus, and WMC and Rolls Royce (albeit the upkeep and maintenance probably not that of a RR, but as someone who supports and uses the stuff on a daily basis it's a no-brainer). Of course the entry price proportionally goes up with each option.

Cable STB is only gonna cost you the monthly fee like $10-$15 combines for both the box and DVR service.
Tivo's gonna run you roughly ~$300 give or take depending on the model and retailer plus the guide subscription fee and cablecard fees.
WMC for a full featured box with Cablecard support is probably gonna run you over $1000 easy for OEM built (have to for cablecard functionality unfortunately if you want to be legit. No DIY without hacking involved) and no subscription fee outside the cablecards.

To each their own though. The price is usually the primary deciding factor and what you can afford.

To be perfectly honest Vchat I know absolutely nothing about the technology that you're talking about. I was under the impression that you were recording television through some type of fire wire. I know you have the same copy protection issues I have, but again I was under the impression that the copy protection was prohibiting you from copying period.

For the benefit of infoman1 I should explain that all digital channels except locals are restricted to copy once on Time Warner. This unfairly limits our abilities, but there is nothing we can do about it. So while you can record it on a TiVo and I imagine on the device Vchat20 is talking about you cannot move it to another area like to a PC for storage/transfer purposes. Analog channels are not affected of course.

Being as I know you are indeed a knowledgeable person when it comes to cable television devices I'll accept that there could very well be something beyond TiVo and actually I'm glad there is. That just forces TiVo to keep getting better.;)

Just so I can educate myself further is there a link you can provide me with so I can kind of look at the features of WMC HTPC? Not buying of course, just window shopping.:D

Bill, cable card is free from TW? I think my rate card lists at $3.10, and are they available?

Bill, cable card is free from TW? I think my rate card lists at $3.10, and are they available?

I'll let the Bill thing slide...see my signature.;)

I thought it was 3 dollars even, I pay 6.00 for two cards. If it list 3.10 however that's what it is for a card. You do have to pay for the card they are not free.

Actually hookbill, WMC (Windows Media Center) acts just like a Tivo and if using the right hardware with cablecard support is identical. Although right now ATI's cablecard tuners have all channels DRM'd regardless of CCI flag setting, a new firmware update due out soon is supposed to bring that back in line (in addition to adding much awaited SDV tuning adapter support) so it's just the same situation as Tivo's as far as copying programs to and from. And it is no more difficult to transfer shows to other devices than a Tivo is as long as the copy protection suffices (and you can use multiple analog and OTA tuners just the same. In fact as many as you want depending on how many tuners you can cram in the box or usb ports).

This is much different from the firewire setup which I really don't fuss with much these days unless I have a particular recorded program I am interested in copying over. The channels keep going back and forth and I don't know which ones will be available to copy from one week to the next. The only really reliable ones are the locals and even then the crappy SA box is so bogged down with the OCAP/Navi mess that the recordings come off with a buttload of dropouts anyway.

I really would love to go into the finer details of the capabilities of such a setup, but this isn't the right thread. ;) A good google search though should turn up a number of good websites.

Yes Windows Media Center. I have one running XP and as you're aware its pretty much useless. Wife bought it a few years back for me because of the media center. I had no idea what to do with it at that time.

IIRC Vista was suppose to pave the way and Windows 7 is suppose to perfect it. At least I understand what you're talking about now.

Yeah. XP MCE was extremely limited. Can't even do ClearQAM (dunno about ATSC. I think support was added in an update?) without a major hack. And the feature-set is quite limited. Vista's improves that drastically though and Windows 7 even moreso. QAM, Cablecard, OTA ATSC, analog cable, soon-to-be native Dish Network tuning support. Up to 4 tuners of each (probably more with a small hack if memory serves). And the UI is 900 miles ahead of anything else and extremely intuitive.

I actually tested W7 dualbooted on my desktop with a basic analog cable tuner and run at 1080p on my 42" Panny and utilizing the remote control for it, it all made me realize how far ahead it is of all other DVR solutions. And what features it doesn't have can usually easily be added with 3rd party addons which feel just as much a native part of the system as the stock functionality. One such addition is integrated Bluray and HD-DVD playback through a Cyberlink product which drops right into the media center interface.

I recommend this review and the embedded videos: http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/07/27/windows-7-media-center-review/

Sorry :-( You can get a refurb from Tivo for 199.00. The first year of savings from the TW STB and DVR pays for the box @ 199.00 There after it's a cost savings of $95.00 a year with the cost of the cable card and Tivo subscription figured in. Not withstanding any drive or hardware failure your ahead of the game. I already have a Netflix streaming account with my Blu Ray. Does it happen to support Pandora?

No it doesn't support Pandora at least not yet. Besides Amazon there is also Disney. They constantly add things to TiVo. They also provide access to things like The Onion and other freebies. Podcast is available as well.

And I totally agree on a refurb. That would be a good way to go. TiVo does test every refurb it ships out.

I don't remember the name off hand but I have extended warranties on both machines for 3 years that cost 50 bucks each. I got mine through the now defunct Circuit City but the warranties are still good and supported by H H Gregg. I felt the warranties were a bargain at the time and made me feel better about my purchase.

One other advantage of a media center system I noticed this evening after doing a quick scan of ClearQAM stations on my set is that due to the ability to install and use any combination of tuners and direct integration of the HDHomerun QAM tuners into MCE, I can add in some of the channels we have access to down here but can't reach OTA (WUAB and it's subchannel(s), Cleveland's CW station in HD, WJW, WEWS, WOIO, and WKYC with their subchannels, WVIZ and theirs, RTV, This.TV, and one or two others which aren't available on TWC's lineup here but in the QAMs) and slip them right into the guide with the right data and not be a complete kludge. And then set each tuner with recording priorities (for example with WKYC I could make the two ClearQAM tuners top priority, two cablecard tuners lower priority, and should I get my antenna fixed up and be able to pull in more cleveland stations, set WKYC on those tuners as lowest priority. )

Anyways, apologize for the rantage. I'm done for real now. ;)

I had a 1 minute recording of the 7/28 recording of SyFy's Warehouse 13, Bit again by SDV bug.

Well that's what BT is for. Thanks TW.

I had a 1 minute recording of the 7/28 recording of SyFy's Warehouse 13, Bit again by SDV bug.

Well that's what BT is for. Thanks TW.

Was this on a Tivo? That sounds alot like what happens with Navigator on SDC channels.

On tivo. I never had a partial recording until SDV showed up. Its the fourth partial I've had all on SDV channels.

Just a reminder tomorrow is the day that the massive switch of digital channels to SDV occurs. Will we see more HD channels added in September?

Just a reminder tomorrow is the day that the massive switch of digital channels to SDV occurs. Will we see more HD channels added in September?

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused:

What's switching to who?

Good go hook, don't scare the poor boy. ;)

I still don't know what crazy operation they are running in your areas. Other than the few complete SDV system dropouts we have had and Navigator's stupid back-to-back recordings bug, I haven't had any showstoppers with SDV. Granted, ever since they took the smart route and pulled USAHD out of SDV, I haven't had much on SDV to record these days (In fact the majority of the recording is my mom's soap operas on the local channels and past that it is Psych and Monk. Though the Science Channel has had some intriguing shows on lately that I am recording so I'd have to watch those.)

To update what I wrote earlier:

I haven't had any major issues since the random freezing last Thursday. On Friday the channels started working OK again and it's been that way over the weekend. The only channels on SDV I watch are CNN and Faux. Can't say how the others are working, but those two work fine.

Still, whenever I hear that channels are being added to ASSDV I never greet that with excitement. The only thing I can say is they better add more HD channels in September. That big bag of mashed up jackass from TWC said we were going to get at least 5 new channels a month. We got nothing at all in July and it looks like August is going to be the same.

---------------

I noticed some new channels in the lineup tonight. RFD, Crime and Investigation and Military History. All three of these channels say "To receive this channel, call customer care". How nice, they add new channels, not HD channels, and you can't even watch the damn channels!! Thanks TWC!!

The only thing I can say is they better add more HD channels in September. That big bag of mashed up jackass from TWC said we were going to get at least 5 new channels a month. We got nothing at all in July and it looks like August is going to be the same.

Don't tell me you actually trust what a PR guy said more than 30 seconds ago... If so, that may drop you down a few notches on my list... :)

Don't tell me you actually trust what a PR guy said more than 30 seconds ago... If so, that may drop you down a few notches on my list... :)

Oh no. I don't trust that prick farther than I can throw him. But I am still insulted that they would lie to our faces about this. They lied to Ohio Media Watch and to all the people of NE Ohio. I knew the "100 channels by the end of the year" claim was BS. They need to stop making promises they cannot keep.

I may be playing devils advocate here, but I wouldn't go shooting the messenger here. Gotta remember that Mr. Jasso is just a PR person at Time Warner and from the way his posts on OMW sound he is just another HD-loving consumer like the rest of us. Knowing how corporations like TWC work, he was probably given promises by the higher ups about the major HD additions and they pulled out these past couple months for whatever reason leaving him and the rest of us hanging.

More than anything I'd start chewing out TWC as a larger whole for the incompetent headend techs (Buggy SDV, leaky plants, etc.), horrible business decisions based on zero technical merit (Navigator), and the lack of any modern services. And do keep them very well aware that Dish and DirecTV are very viable alternatives for 99% of the populous (Even for those of you with obstructions, I am sure with enough ingenuity a solution can be made. One such possibility is finding another location on the property that is not obstructed or moving it to a higher elevation like a roof).

More than anything I'd start chewing out TWC as a larger whole for the incompetent headend techs (Buggy SDV, leaky plants, etc.), horrible business decisions based on zero technical merit (Navigator), and the lack of any modern services. And do keep them very well aware that Dish and DirecTV are very viable alternatives for 99% of the populous (Even for those of you with obstructions, I am sure with enough ingenuity a solution can be made. One such possibility is finding another location on the property that is not obstructed or moving it to a higher elevation like a roof).

That I absolutely agree with. Especially the Navigator and SDV parts. I'll never understand why they did Navigator. All of the areas with successful SDV have had it for the past few years and are SARA areas. You'd think they would want to continue the success of something that works, rather than doing one huge beta test on the general public. There's no reason why TW NEO couldn't have started using SARA on the HDC boxes and eventually 'converted' the others and had a unified system with the former Adelphia areas. I know certain people, a little birdie;);), doesn't share my love of SARA, but it's not like it would be a downgrade. Compared to Passport, anything is a downgrade. Navigator was a huge downgrade as well.