Denver, CO - Comcast [Text View] - Page 7

cool_hand_2k

12-28-05, 09:14 PM

I have just setup my new Sony 50A10 and have found that the built in tuner (QAM) can find lots of HD available from my Comcast Extended Basic service.

They were found as follows:
18.1 CBS (HD version of 4)
89.1 ABC (HD version of 7)
89.2 WB (HD version of 2)
90.1 FOX (HD version of 13)
91.1 NBC (HD version of 9)
91.2 PBS (HD version of 6)

I also found 102.10. It had Willy Wonka (new version) on the other night but nothing on today.

My question is about the Avalanche hockey on Altitude (5 or 25 depending if Nuggets are playing at the same time. They always say it is on HD channel 665 or something like that but that must be assuming you have a set top box which I dont. What channels (frequencies) do InHD 1 & 2 come in on?

Are there more channels available in HD. I did the auto scan during the day so I'm not sure I caught them all.

By the way, this set is fantastic! Watched the Broncos on Saturday and the picture quality was amazing. Spent the last year with an older Samsung DLP and the Sony is much nicer in every way except no PIP.

Thanks for the help,
CoolHand

HDJello

12-28-05, 10:33 PM

I have just setup my new Sony 50A10 and have found that the built in tuner (QAM) can find lots of HD available from my Comcast Extended Basic service.

They were found as follows:
18.1 CBS (HD version of 4)
89.1 ABC (HD version of 7)
89.2 WB (HD version of 2)
90.1 FOX (HD version of 13)
91.1 NBC (HD version of 9)
91.2 PBS (HD version of 6)

This is the current compliment of Free HD on Comcast in the Denver Metro area. Folks up north are getting different mappings.

I also found 102.10. It had Willy Wonka (new version) on the other night but nothing on today.

You can pick up various on-demand shows in SD as they are not encrypted. However, there is obviously no schedule for them, and you are at the mercy of whomever ordered them. If they turn them off, fast forward or rewind, or whatever, you see what they see.

My question is about the Avalanche hockey on Altitude (5 or 25 depending if Nuggets are playing at the same time. They always say it is on HD channel 665 or something like that but that must be assuming you have a set top box which I dont. What channels (frequencies) do InHD 1 & 2 come in on?

InHD1 and InHD2 are scrambled, so you won't pick them up without a box or a cable card.

Are there more channels available in HD. I did the auto scan during the day so I'm not sure I caught them all.

There are no additional channels that are not scrambled. If you have a box or cable card (and a subscription), you could potentially get Showtime HD, HBO HD, Starz HD, Cinemax HD, Discovery HD Theatre, and ESPN HD.

cool_hand_2k

12-28-05, 11:30 PM

InHD1 and InHD2 are scrambled, so you won't pick them up without a box or a cable card.

HDJello, thanks for the post. Altitude definately makes it sound like they make their broadcast available (unscrambled) in HD on there channels when the Avs play in Denver (home games only).

Just wishful thinking on my part.

Love this HD stuff! But not going to give Comcast another nickel.

jfh3

12-29-05, 01:28 AM

There are no additional channels that are not scrambled.

Not true, at least in my area. I get 40+ others + various music channels without a box or cablecard.

HDJello

12-29-05, 10:35 AM

Not true, at least in my area. I get 40+ others + various music channels without a box or cablecard.
I meant no additional unscrambled HD channels; sorry for being vague.

cool_hand_2k

12-29-05, 11:18 AM

cool_hand_2k

12-29-05, 11:20 AM

One more quick point .... the digital channels look like crap, their analog sisters look much better. Is there something (settings wise) to make them look better on my Sony 50A10?

Couch Patato

12-29-05, 03:39 PM

One more quick point .... the digital channels look like crap, their analog sisters look much better. Is there something (settings wise) to make them look better on my Sony 50A10?

That's odd. It's the other way around most of the time. Has any one posted a tweeks thread in rear projection?

HDJello

12-29-05, 08:01 PM

I re-ran the auto-scan last night and got 75 analog and 145 digital channels. Some are 'blank' (scrambled) and I'm sure probably 40 or so are music channels. Is there a complete listing available anywhere for a QAM tuner. Does Comcast post this kind of line-up listing? What channels are carring which networks (even pay channels like HBO etc.)?

Back to my original question - What channels are InHD1 & 2?
Comcast does not post this kind of information. They occasionally shift things around and leave the number on the Tuner the same.

That said, in Boulder, InHD1 is currently at 747 MHz, which is 116.x, and InHD2 is currently at 687 MHz, which is 106.x; I do not know how to determine the subchannel number for these stations. ESPN is at 621 MHz, which is on 90.2 (which I know because KDVR-DT is on 90.1, plus there was a time in the early days of Comcast HDTV where all of the channels were not scrambled and it was 90.2 back then).

marciaandpaul

01-01-06, 05:08 PM

rblatchley

01-01-06, 05:54 PM

HDJello

01-01-06, 07:20 PM

I was watching football this morning on FOX-HD and CBS-HD. I decided to see what else was on HD in Longmont using my QAM tuner. I noticed that PBS-HD was broadcasting in 480i. Has anyone else had this problem? Take a look and let me know. Maybe it was just a temporary thing, but usually, even if the digital channels are broadcasting SD shows, my TV tells me it's coming across in 1080i or 720p (with black bars on the sides of course). However, PBS was stretched and my TV said it was receiving a 480i signal. Anyone else notice this?
KRMA-DT only broadcasts the PBS-HD fare for part of the day, and the rest of the time it simulcasts KRMA, in 480i. I don't know the exact hours. At one time it was 6PM-midnight, but they may have broadened that somewhat more recently. Try it in the evenings, when the PBS-HD stuff is on.

Personally, I prefer it when the station passes the 480i stuff through in 480i (not commercials, but regular programs), and lets my equipment do the processing. None of the other stations in Denver do that.

marciaandpaul

01-02-06, 04:04 PM

gregkauf

01-04-06, 01:01 PM

HDJello

01-04-06, 02:49 PM

Hello,

A while back I posted a problem I was having with my Sony TV receiving clear QAM signals from Comcast. I recently purchased a QAM tuner for my PC and it does receive a number of these channels from Comcast. My Sony TV had been able to receive clear QAM channels before Comcast started making changes for HDTV. Sony is of little help on this matter. Does anyone have any thoughts on the possibility that there is a problem with the QAM tuner on my Sony or something Comcast changed that actually is incompatible with my Sony TV? It seems odd that it stopped working about the time Comcast was making changes for HDTV, but it is equally odd that another QAM tuner does receive these channels.

Thanks,

Greg
You may have a problem with your built-in tuner, or possibly somewhere in the cabling to the TV that is only affecting the digital stuff. One of my sets is a Sony 26" LCD with built-in QAM tuner and I have no problems receiving the Comcast channels that are not scrambled (on some occasions the music channels on 119.x go out, but never any of the HD channels). I would think it is unlikely to be a compatibility issue. It might be worth a service call if you cannot figure anything else out.

pezzulca

01-04-06, 05:51 PM

Hello,

A while back I posted a problem I was having with my Sony TV receiving clear QAM signals from Comcast. I recently purchased a QAM tuner for my PC and it does receive a number of these channels from Comcast. My Sony TV had been able to receive clear QAM channels before Comcast started making changes for HDTV. Sony is of little help on this matter. Does anyone have any thoughts on the possibility that there is a problem with the QAM tuner on my Sony or something Comcast changed that actually is incompatible with my Sony TV? It seems odd that it stopped working about the time Comcast was making changes for HDTV, but it is equally odd that another QAM tuner does receive these channels.

Thanks,

Greg

I had the same issue in Parker with comcast and a sony KDF-55XS955. I had satellite (for NFL Sunday ticket) and analogue cable for HD. It worked fine for months than in about October of last year the HD channel started cutting in an out so much it was unwatchable. The Comcast tech said they built out or upgraded from QAM 64 to QAM 256 but they would not troubleshoot my issue unless I used their tunner. I eventually gave up (football is over) and am getting a Motalora 6412 tomorrow.

roller11

01-04-06, 06:55 PM

Update: High Definition Status, Longmont

Over the past 2-3 weeks, I've been in touch with Jim Wilts, Chief Information
Officer for the city of Longmont. Jim is responsible for consulting with various
Longmont utility and service providers, including Comcast. Since he has the ear
of execs at Comcast, I asked him if he would try to get more info than
the "HD coming soon" party line...here is the straight dope: He spoke with a fairly high
up general manger, and was told that Longmont would *hopefully* have
real HD by Dec. 31,2006. Jim's impression is this represents best case.
This means, amongst other things, that Longmont will almost certainly be without Monday night football until at least September 2007, possibly longer.

captainjy

01-04-06, 07:12 PM

We just moved from DirecTV to Comcast and are wondering if there is any chance that Comcast will pick up Universal HD channel? Anyone know of any new HD channels that Comcast is adding this year?

gakon

01-05-06, 12:39 AM

Anyone know of any new HD channels that Comcast is adding this year?I've been hoping that they would add UHD in time for the Olympics but I'm not sure if that channel will show any of the Olympics. NBC's web site lists MSNBC, CNBC, and USA, but not Universal HD. Even if that's not your motivation for adding UHD make sure you call Comcast and tell them you want it. Also, at the bottom of your Comcast statement, there's information about your local franchise authority, which (according to a Comcast CSR) has some say into which channels Comcast carries. Contact them as well.
The only other channel I can see being added is TNT-HD, since many other (but not all) Comcast markets have it. I don't really know what the holdup is (it's not capacity here in Highlands Ranch), and the Comcast CSR's have said they know of no new channels being added. All of the HD locals are already available on Comcast, KTVD won't be broadcasting in HD until spring at least, and don't expect to see any of the HDNet channels on Comcast's lineup.

roller11

01-05-06, 12:49 AM

captainjy

01-05-06, 01:25 AM

I've been hoping that they would add UHD in time for the Olympics but I'm not sure if that channel will show any of the Olympics. NBC's web site lists MSNBC, CNBC, and USA, but not Universal HD. Even if that's not your motivation for adding UHD make sure you call Comcast and tell them you want it. Also, at the bottom of your Comcast statement, there's information about your local franchise authority, which (according to a Comcast CSR) has some say into which channels Comcast carries. Contact them as well.
The only other channel I can see being added is TNT-HD, since many other (but not all) Comcast markets have it. I don't really know what the holdup is (it's not capacity here in Highlands Ranch), and the Comcast CSR's have said they know of no new channels being added. All of the HD locals are already available on Comcast, KTVD won't be broadcasting in HD until spring at least, and don't expect to see any of the HDNet channels on Comcast's lineup.

Although I like the HD channels on Comcast, I am not really impressed with their lineup. I get the feeling that Comcast is not carrying UHD because their competitor, DTV is. Sounds funny, but it just doesn't make sense. I heard from a rep at Comcast that they are going to have 19 channels by the end of 2006, but what they are and when they are coming, I don't know. I am very curious how well DTV's HD will be. I think that we are going to switch to them in the spring when they get HD local channels. In the meantime, I definitely will let Comcast know my thoughts!

HDJello

01-05-06, 01:44 AM

I too found this odd. In the morning, my tuner shows 480i. In the afternoon,
1080i. I don't know exactly when the transistions happen, but at 3 PM, it's 1080i.
Strange.
I think KRMA broadcasts 1080i from 3PM to midnight weekdays; don't know about the weekend. At one point it was just 6PM to midnight, because of some FCC regulation regarding percentage of simulcast with the analog which was later relaxed. There was some discussion of this in the OTA thread a long time ago (like maybe in 2004).

HDJello

01-05-06, 01:48 AM

I've been hoping that they would add UHD in time for the Olympics but I'm not sure if that channel will show any of the Olympics. NBC's web site lists MSNBC, CNBC, and USA, but not Universal HD.
For the Athens Olympics the "dedicated" HD channel was a joke. It ran a single "highlights" loop that was maybe 90 minutes or two hours over and over and only changed it once a day, rather than any useful HD coverage. I hope for the winter games they just simulcast the main coverage, but in HD. Obviously anything on MSNBC, CNBC, and USA are not going to have an HD alternative.

roller11

01-05-06, 09:25 AM

Trying to figure out my problem in Longmont.

I have a Pio 1130, so it's a very recent tuner, digital cable ready, ...
The tuner finds the following digital stations
22.015-.027 music
75.013 Movieplex
78.005 nothing
79.006 Fox
79.007 WB2
79.008 CBS 4
79.009 NBC 9
79.010 ABC 7
79.011 PBS 12
79.012 UPN 20
79.013 PBS 6
80.005 TOON DISNEY
87.001 WB 2 HD
87.002 PBS HD
90.011 ABC 7 Weather/news
90.012 KUSA weather/news
97.003 SPEED
97.015-.032 Music

As you can see, I only seem to be getting HD reception on 2 channels. The C* blokes say get a cable card, but I'm not sure that makes sense. If the HD stations are there, why wouldn't my tuner detect them even if they were decoded **(I meant encoded)** and didn't show a picture?

Can anyone give me their experience with using the TV hooked directly to the C* feed?

TIA
Paul

Bringing the cable directly into my built-in Qam tuner, (JVC 61FH96)
I get 68-1 ABC HD, 68-2 CBS HD, 69-1 FOX HD, 69-2 NBC HD), and
WB HD and PBS HD are same mapping as you. I get various other progs also,
but I can't give you a complete map. Comcast is claiming that Longmont gets
NBC, FOX, ABC, and CBS in HD, so you should get them. Have you called comcast
about this?

marciaandpaul

01-05-06, 11:17 AM

Bringing the cable directly into my built-in Qam tuner, (JVC 61FH96)
I get 68-1 ABC HD, 68-2 CBS HD, 69-1 FOX HD, 69-2 NBC HD), and
WB HD and PBS HD are same mapping as you. I get various other progs also,
but I can't give you a complete map. Comcast is claiming that Longmont gets
NBC, FOX, ABC, and CBS in HD, so you should get them. Have you called comcast
about this?

Yes. So far the only answer I get from them is get a cable card. I'm willing, but it just doesn't make sense to me. ????

Paul

weldon

01-05-06, 12:03 PM

Obviously anything on MSNBC, CNBC, and USA are not going to have an HD alternative.
True, but we could always hope that they use all HD cameras and film with 4:3 safe downconversion on MSNBC, CNBC, and USA. That way we could still get HD widescreen highlights on NBC-HD. Just daydreaming a little. :)

HDJello

01-05-06, 12:29 PM

Yes. So far the only answer I get from them is get a cable card. I'm willing, but it just doesn't make sense to me. ????

Paul
So what happens if you manually enter 68.1, 68.2, 69.1, and 69.2?

My ex had a problem with her current residence (in Boulder) where there was some kind of filter on the cable line that locked out some of the channels, because the previous resident subscribed to cable modem but not cable TV services. Assuming you subscribe to analog cable (I think you said you did a while back) then you shouldn't have this. Does Longmont cable have any analog channels in the 60s and 70s that you can get?

marciaandpaul

01-05-06, 02:18 PM

So what happens if you manually enter 68.1, 68.2, 69.1, and 69.2?

My ex had a problem with her current residence (in Boulder) where there was some kind of filter on the cable line that locked out some of the channels, because the previous resident subscribed to cable modem but not cable TV services. Assuming you subscribe to analog cable (I think you said you did a while back) then you shouldn't have this. Does Longmont cable have any analog channels in the 60s and 70s that you can get?

I get 70 which is MTV2. 72.015-019 show up sometime [they may be someone in the neighborhood getting VOD??]. Just tried 69.2, 69.1, 68.2, 68.1; nothing there [but that may be due to there being nothing there when I do the auto prog of the tuner. not sure if the tuner will switch to some channel that wasn't there during programing.]

What kind of complaint do you think I should lodge with C*?

Paul

HDJello

01-05-06, 10:27 PM

I get 70 which is MTV2. 72.015-019 show up sometime [they may be someone in the neighborhood getting VOD??]. Just tried 69.2, 69.1, 68.2, 68.1; nothing there [but that may be due to there being nothing there when I do the auto prog of the tuner. not sure if the tuner will switch to some channel that wasn't there during programing.]

What kind of complaint do you think I should lodge with C*?

Paul
Probably there is a problem upstream from you on those frequencies. The easiest way to get them to respond would be to order some kind of service, get them to come out and get it to work, and then cancel it after a month. It sucks to have to pay the install charge, but it is probably the only way they will deal with it.

You might get away with a generic "picture and sound" complaint on some of the channels, and once the technician gets out there explain what the channel problems are. They can check signal levels with equipment and figure out what is going on.

jfh3

01-06-06, 09:35 PM

Has anyone successfully gotten C to rent a DVR with only basic service?

I want to downgrade, but the phone rep tells me that I have to return the DVR before they can downgrade or subscribe to a digital package.

Although the rep doesn't mention it, the least expensive digital package is the CableLatino package for $28, so I could in theory have the DVR and HD for $28+$9.95, but I'd rather have basic+DVR, which I think would be $11 (basic)+digital access/box ($6.95)+ DVR/HD ($9.95)

I'd like to keep the DVR until Comcast has the Tivo offering or until the Tivo Series 3 is released, but until I drop DirecTV, I don't want to get much programming from Comcast.

mbuchana

01-08-06, 07:15 PM

Anyone seeing any short freeze/stutters in the video for the Cincinnati/Pittsburgh game on KCNC-DT? I'm watching via Comcast Ft. Collins.

I'm trying to decide if it is a KCNC, Comcast, or my DVR (6412-III) causing the problem. I don't think it is a CBS network-wide problem. It isn't horrible, but it is noticeable enough to be a bit annoying.

Mark

jpco

01-08-06, 10:29 PM

I watched the whole game on my 6412-III (via DVR) and didn't notice any stuttering or freezing.

marciaandpaul

01-13-06, 06:06 PM

HDJello

01-13-06, 07:46 PM

As an interim status to my C* cable problem in Longmont, I had a repair guy out who said that part of my problem was subsatandard connections due to some repairs that a workman had made. He also said that the two HD channels, 87.1, 87.2 were due to OTA pickup on the cable.

After he left I had 69.1 and 69.2, FOX and NBC. 68.1, 68.2 still aren't showing.

I guess the next step is the cable card. :-(

Paul
I don't know what "OTA pickup on the cable" means, but it is not technically possible for it to mean that somehow the cable is picking up the OTA signals accidentally. The frequencies do not match, and the modulation technologies are different. They are there because Comcast is putting them there. For some reason they are not offering them to their subscribers, possibly because they aren't available in all neighborhoods due to system frequency limits.

I guess its good he got FOX and NBC working for you. Why did he give up?

A cable card is not going to help you get CBS and ABC (directly). A cable card will allow you to get scrambled signals without a cable box, but per the previous discussions, Comcast isn't offering any premium HD channels in Longmont yet. Maybe if you order the cable card, they will spend more time repairing the problems keeping you from getting CBS and ABC, and then you can cancel the card once things are working (or keep it if they have premium HD content you want by then).

roller11

01-14-06, 07:44 PM

dave1216

01-14-06, 09:05 PM

gakon

01-14-06, 11:55 PM

1. Standard cable (basic + expanded basic) is 42.99. Digital classic (pretty much required to get all of the HD's) is another 9.95. DVR is another 9.95. There are cheaper ways to get HD, but that's probably the most common combination. Comcast is raising its rates soon.
2. Yes, the Motorola 6412. I do not have an HDMI input on my TV, but I believe the current version (series III) does have HDMI output active.
3. So far, no downrezzing of HD. Of course, Comcast will be behind D* and E* in the number of HD channels once the satellite providers start broadcasting HD locals. E* says it will be adding the locals in March; not sure when D* will start. It's a trade - quality or quantity. Comcast CSR's are providing no information about any new HD in this area.

Your job wouldn't happen to be for a large aerospace company, would it?

dr_mal

01-15-06, 12:03 AM

Comcast is raising its rates soon.
Isn't that pretty much a constant? :p

gakon

01-15-06, 12:07 AM

Yes, the rate increases are pretty standard.
The News had an article about MTV's HD network in the paper today. I was going to write a letter in response. Feel free to comment or correct.

dr_mal

01-15-06, 12:13 AM

I like the letter. Since I'll be switching over to Comcast this year (*), I'm suddenly much more upset at their lack of HD expansion. Especially UniversalHD. I've been watching a lot more of that channel than I expected.

(*) Provided that Series 3 TiVo really does come out this year.

dave1216

01-15-06, 01:23 AM

Your job wouldn't happen to be for a large aerospace company, would it?

Thanks for the info. Yes, I work for Boeing in Huntington Beach, Ca. Boeing and Lockmart are combining their launch rocket businesses. Engineers all move to the Waterton plant. Took a trip out there this summer, and it was very nice. Winters seem pretty cold for a California boy.

Dave

gakon

01-15-06, 10:08 AM

Winters seem pretty cold for a California boy.
Hey, it was in the 60's yesterday, but they're expecting snow tonight. You'll get used to it. See you at work, whenever you get here.

smbruce

01-15-06, 10:51 AM

Since Comcast has finally officially stated that they won't be
upgrading Longmont to HDTV,

I might be missing something, but I live in longmont and I've had HDTV with a Motorola 6412 from comcast for the last two months. I only get four channels (ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX), but it's better than nothing for now.

I think the Comcast website stills says it's not available in my area, but I just called customer service and the guy on the phone said it's available.

David James

01-15-06, 12:42 PM

Since Comcast has finally officially stated that they won't be
upgrading Longmont to HDTV, Do you have a link to the official statement.

roller11

01-15-06, 03:12 PM

I might be missing something, but I live in longmont and I've had HDTV with a Motorola 6412 from comcast for the last two months. I only get four channels (ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX), but it's better than nothing for now.

I think the Comcast website stills says it's not available in my area, but I just called customer service and the guy on the phone said it's available.

I was referring to HD that counts, the 'cable only' channels that
Comcast offers to every other community, but not to Longmont.
The four you mention are meaningless since we already get those
OTA...for free.

roller11

01-15-06, 03:16 PM

Do you have a link to the official statement.

No link. The info comes from a Comcast manager in a conversation on
Jan.3 with
Jim Wilts, the Chief Information Officer for the city of Longmont.
Also discussed was the reason Comcast has decided not to upgrade
Longmont's infrastructure to HD ready status.

b5lurker

01-15-06, 03:36 PM

Since Comcast has finally officially stated that they won't be
upgrading Longmont to HDTV,
this may be of interest. Dishnetwork is now offering a leasing deal for their
942 HD recorder for an intial fee of $300.00 plus $70.00 for
a second dish, plus $5.00 per mo leasing charge. Plus, six months of free HD programming.
Previously, Dish wanted $700.00 up front for the same receiver.
Those Longmont citizens who don't like Comcast's "do without" answer
regarding HDTV now have an alternative that is a little easier to swallow.

If you wait until February when the new 622 receivers are available you should be able to lease one of them for $299. Not sure if there will be an install cost for multiple dishes, probably not if you commit to the new DishHD programming packages for 2 years. Then you don't have to worry about upgrading to new MPEG4 hardware later on. All new HD programming on Dish will be in MPEG4 only, including the Denver locals that will be up on Dish in March. Dish is adding HGTV HD, Food TV HD, Universal HD, and ESPN 2 HD along with 5 more Zoom HD channels, but only in MPEG4.

Steve

roller11

01-15-06, 08:55 PM

If you wait until February when the new 622 receivers are available you should be able to lease one of them for $299. Not sure if there will be an install cost for multiple dishes, probably not if you commit to the new DishHD programming packages for 2 years. Then you don't have to worry about upgrading to new MPEG4 hardware later on. All new HD programming on Dish will be in MPEG4 only, including the Denver locals that will be up on Dish in March. Dish is adding HGTV HD, Food TV HD, Universal HD, and ESPN 2 HD along with 5 more Zoom HD channels, but only in MPEG4.

Steve

Yeah, but the Dish HD's (including the 622) have one HUGE shortcoming: they have only one HD
tuner. Both DirectTV and Comcast have two HD tuners. So with Dish, you
have to decide which of two valuble programs to not see. With
Com and Direct, you see both of them. I can't believe Dish made such
an incredible blunder, it will cosy them dearly.
So Dish has the good programming, but poor hardware. Direct has
good hareware, bad programming.

marciaandpaul

01-15-06, 10:37 PM

I don't know what "OTA pickup on the cable" means, but it is not technically possible for it to mean that somehow the cable is picking up the OTA signals accidentally. The frequencies do not match, and the modulation technologies are different. They are there because Comcast is putting them there. For some reason they are not offering them to their subscribers, possibly because they aren't available in all neighborhoods due to system frequency limits.

I guess its good he got FOX and NBC working for you. Why did he give up?

A cable card is not going to help you get CBS and ABC (directly). A cable card will allow you to get scrambled signals without a cable box, but per the previous discussions, Comcast isn't offering any premium HD channels in Longmont yet. Maybe if you order the cable card, they will spend more time repairing the problems keeping you from getting CBS and ABC, and then you can cancel the card once things are working (or keep it if they have premium HD content you want by then).

I believe the tech's claim about the PBS and WB2 content. The signal is going directly into the TV's receiver, and it has the capability to detect the OTA modulation schemes. These will probably disappear for me when a get the cable card.

He wouldn't pay atttention to the HD reception because he claimed it was illegal for the TV to receive these directly. I don't know if that's true, but I've found it dowsn't pay to argue with these "experts".

Yes, the cable card is the next step because that's the only way that I'll get them to work on the signal level. The signals in the 68.1 to 69.2 region are quite weak [68.x never shows and 69.x comes and goes].

I'll try to keep the list posted on the results.

Paul

HDJello

01-15-06, 11:19 PM

I believe the tech's claim about the PBS and WB2 content. The signal is going directly into the TV's receiver, and it has the capability to detect the OTA modulation schemes. These will probably disappear for me when a get the cable card.

He wouldn't pay atttention to the HD reception because he claimed it was illegal for the TV to receive these directly. I don't know if that's true, but I've found it dowsn't pay to argue with these "experts".

Yes, the cable card is the next step because that's the only way that I'll get them to work on the signal level. The signals in the 68.1 to 69.2 region are quite weak [68.x never shows and 69.x comes and goes].

I'll try to keep the list posted on the results.

Paul
KRMA-DT (PBS) would be on 18.1, and KWGN-DT (WB) would be on 34.1 (before PSIP mapping, which would probably make them show up as 6.1 and 2.1), if you were picking up OTA signals. They are on the cable as 87.1 and 87.2, because Comcast put them there. Others on thsi forum are also getting them with a QAM tuner.

It is not illegal to receive the OTA stations via cable. In fact, FCC regulations REQUIRE that these not be scrambled, which is why you can pick them up. On the otherhand, Comcast probably doesn't have to go out of their way to service your system if that is all you aren't getting.

The cable card would obligate them to further service it (as would a HD cable box), but once they were working, you could take it out of the picture and stop paying for the service. I currently pay the subscription (and have the DVR) because I like the extra channels that are not currently available in Longmont, and because one of my TVs does not have any HD tuner built-in (it is 2.5 years old). But subscribing (at least temporarily) is probably a reasonable next step to get Comcast to fix the problems.

captainjy

01-16-06, 01:28 AM

HDJello

01-16-06, 12:52 PM

I am pretty new to HD and Comcast so I don't know what the problem is. We have Mits 52628 and lately we are seeing a lot of pixelation. Tonight wasn't too bad, but INHD can get really bad some times. When we first got installed, it was clear and clean. Is this most likely a TV issue or a Comcast issue?

Is pixelation common on any provider?
I would expect this to be a Comcast issue. Pixelation is usually a sign of weak signal (though there could be other reasons). The signal could be weak for many reasons, including too far from the last amplifier, too many splices in the cable, too many splitters, low quality splitters, wrong type of cable, and probably other reasons for that too.

Are you using a cable card or a set-top box? Either way, you should probably schedule a service call with Comcast.

I had a problem here where the signals on some of the HD channels were OK at night, but were unwatchable during the day. Turned out that inside the wall was an old splitter that did not adequately pass the higher frequencies where the HD channels I was having problems with were located. He changed out the splitter (at no charge) and I have not had more problems.

I have also read somewhere that sometimes you just have to unplug the motorola set-top box (I have the DVR version) to get it to reset, and then things work OK. This might be the very first step you try, before calling Comcast.

David James

01-16-06, 02:24 PM

No link. The info comes from a Comcast manager in a conversation on
Jan.3 with
Jim Wilts, the Chief Information Officer for the city of Longmont.
Also discussed was the reason Comcast has decided not to upgrade
Longmont's infrastructure to HD ready status.That's what I thought you may have meant. Please don't take offense, but I don't consider your private conversation with the Comcast person an "official" position. Again, I'm not doubting your view of the conversation.

As for Comcast, I'm very disappointed with their "official" position. After all, according to their website, I'm not even getting HDTV :D. I guess I need to add myself to the list of those calling to complain.

roller11

01-16-06, 03:59 PM

That's what I thought you may have meant. Please don't take offense, but I don't consider your private conversation with the Comcast person an "official" position. Again, I'm not doubting your view of the conversation.

As for Comcast, I'm very disappointed with their "official" position. After all, according to their website, I'm not even getting HDTV :D. I guess I need to add myself to the list of those calling to complain.

Right, "official" is the wrong term. "Accurate", "honest" would be more fitting,
as the 'official' position is the one that is meant to deceive.

Mr. Wilts gets to bypass the public relations people, so he can get to the truth,
which is why I contacted him. Since his job is to be part of the
negotiations process, Comcast has to tell him what's really going on
instead of the hand-crafted press release given to the public at large.
Longmont's infrustructure is older than the communties that got upgrades,
so it is more expensive to upgrade the hardware. The extra cost is why Comcast, planned all along to not upgrade the hardware.
Someday, new technology may be invented that will tip the scales, but for
the foreseeable future, it isn't cost effective to offer HD in Longmont.
All we can do is contact C and let them know that there is a price to be paid
for their decision.

For myself, I'm waiting until Feb. 1 to see what Dish will offer. Although they
have superior programming, C has vastly superior hardware.
For example, for the same price per month, I get 4 HD recorders from
Comcast (2x 6412 boxes). vs just one HD recorder from Dish. And that's not to mention the $300.00 one time charge I have to pay to Dish. Half way between
is DirectTV. They offer 2 HD recorders in one box, and more programming than
Comcast, but less than Dish. And the one time fee is $400.

b5lurker

01-16-06, 05:24 PM

Yeah, but the Dish HD's (including the 622) have one HUGE shortcoming: they have only one HD
tuner. Both DirectTV and Comcast have two HD tuners. So with Dish, you
have to decide which of two valuble programs to not see. With
Com and Direct, you see both of them. I can't believe Dish made such
an incredible blunder, it will cosy them dearly.
So Dish has the good programming, but poor hardware. Direct has
good hareware, bad programming.

Not true. I have the 921 receiver and the tuner setup on it is exactly the same as the 942 and 622. 2 Dish tuners and 1 OTA ATSC tuner, you can record up to 2 HD programs at the same time (2 Dish HD, or 1 Dish HD & 1 OTA ATSC).

captainjy

01-16-06, 06:11 PM

I would expect this to be a Comcast issue. Pixelation is usually a sign of weak signal (though there could be other reasons). The signal could be weak for many reasons, including too far from the last amplifier, too many splices in the cable, too many splitters, low quality splitters, wrong type of cable, and probably other reasons for that too.

Are you using a cable card or a set-top box? Either way, you should probably schedule a service call with Comcast.

I had a problem here where the signals on some of the HD channels were OK at night, but were unwatchable during the day. Turned out that inside the wall was an old splitter that did not adequately pass the higher frequencies where the HD channels I was having problems with were located. He changed out the splitter (at no charge) and I have not had more problems.

I have also read somewhere that sometimes you just have to unplug the motorola set-top box (I have the DVR version) to get it to reset, and then things work OK. This might be the very first step you try, before calling Comcast.

HDJELLO,
Thanks for the reply. It was almost an act of God to get this answered. Actually, today I called Comcast and they are coming out on Friday to replace our Phase II unit and do some other checks. I probably should have put off the service call before I read this, but I have been hearing that the Phase III box is better overall, anyhow. Thanks again for your reply!

roller11

01-16-06, 08:23 PM

Not true. I have the 921 receiver and the tuner setup on it is exactly the same as the 942 and 622. 2 Dish tuners and 1 OTA ATSC tuner, you can record up to 2 HD programs at the same time (2 Dish HD, or 1 Dish HD & 1 OTA ATSC).
On your 921,
Have you ever actually recorded two HD 'cable only' progs at the
same time , cable only = Discovery HD and ESPN HD for example?

TheBert

01-17-06, 11:08 AM

On your 921,
Have you ever actually recorded two HD 'cable only' progs at the
same time , cable only = Discovery HD and ESPN HD for example?

Roller, Are you saying that the 921, 942 and 622 can only record 1 HD program at a time? I haven't tried to record two at once but is this the case? The new VIP receivers have two sat tuners and 1 ATSC. I saw earlier you mentioned the 622 had only one HD tuner.

Is the only HD content Comcast offers in Longmont the locals?

BobLikesHDTV

01-17-06, 02:06 PM

I am from Orange County, Ca and my job will be moving to south Denver (Littleton, Castle Rock are my potential new home areas). Seems Comcast is the cable company there. I know I could search the entire thread here, but if someone could help with a few questions, I would appreciate.
1) The price for cable in general seems very expensive. My digital basic package here is $40, yours is more like$55 before adding HDTV and DVRs. Is that right?
2) Do you have a DVR? If so what model? Does it have HDMI output working?
3) Any overall comments about the service? They are not doing any down-rezing of HD are they (if you have been reading about HD-lite on the Direct-TV threads, you will know what I mean)?

Thanks

1. You are right. It is relatively more expensive than many other non-Comcast systems.

2. There is a DVR. It does not work well. Very buggy, based on 60,000 that broke down twice in people's homes and are on their way back to Motorola. Yesterday Comcast announced a deal with Samsung to build the new generation of set-top boxes, but we won't see those until early 2007.

3. Comcast does have HDTV, in certain neighborhoods. It's really hit and miss by neighborhood. They are rebuilding the area, bit-by-bit. And if I were the people in Longmont, I'd talk to the city council or county commissioners about kicking them out of the franchise and getting somebody else to upgrade the system.

I've found the HDTV picture through Comcast is inferior to just using an indoor rabbit ears-UHF combination antenna. I'm using a $20 Zenith Silver Sensor, which is sitting on top of my TV, and the HDTV for almost all local channels is available. At the moment, only the ABC affiliate (KMGH-DT) is not. But as I understand they are moving their transmitter at the moment and should be easily received by those with a straight shot to downtown Denver.

FYI, for your logistical purposes, I live in Littleton, by C-470 and Bowles Ave (if you've had a look at the area, I'm near about 1 mile from the foothills).

If you can avoid Comcast, my suggestion is that you do. I'm dropping them just as soon as Direct or Dish MPEG 4 is available in Denver, along with the local HD channels. This supposedly will be the case by mid year. Comcast, on the other hand, is not giving us all of the available HD channels (ESPN2, National Geographic, Universal-HD, TNT-HD, HDNET 1 or 2) and will likely not give us any of the newer ones set for the beginning of the year (HGTV-HD, MTV-HD, Fox-HD, etc.) because they simply don't have the bandswidth for doing so. And they won't have the bandswidth until the Samsung set-top boxes are available. The first order is for only 200,000, with an option for another 700,000. That's a drop in the bucket for the number of subscribers.

One final comment. There is a big local controversy about where to hang the broadcast antennas for digital TV in Denver. The traditional place for TV and radio antennas is Lookout Mountain in Golden (really the foothills). A second sight was allocated by the Jefferson County commissioners on nearby Mount Morrison. However, a local citizens group has protested and gotten the county to back down. The city of Golden is threatening to annex the area to prevent the building of anymore transmitter towers. 20% of people in the area take their television over-the-air, so it's a real mess, considering analog TV will turn off for good on 2/17/09. That may sound like a long time off, but my experience is the three years will fly by.

For HDTV and digital, the WB and Fox affiliates currently broadcast OTA from Lookout Mountain at half power. They look awesome: crystal clear. All the rest, except for PBS 12, broadcast from downtown's Republic Plaza building, and look pretty good too.

I hope this answers your questions.

P.S., I used to live in Whittier, on the border of LA and Orange Counties.

Welcome to Colorado!

roller11

01-17-06, 07:10 PM

Roller, Are you saying that the 921, 942 and 622 can only record 1 HD program at a time? I haven't tried to record two at once but is this the case? The new VIP receivers have two sat tuners and 1 ATSC. I saw earlier you mentioned the 622 had only one HD tuner.

Is the only HD content Comcast offers in Longmont the locals?

The docs suggest that you can tune only one HD sat channel at a time,
i.e. the best it can do is one SD channel and one HD channel. I'm trying to find out
from people who actually have a 942.

Longmont gets only locals, and not even all of them, only CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX.

gakon

01-17-06, 10:11 PM

I don't want to sound like a Comcast cheerleader, but my experience with them in some areas is a little different:
2. There is a DVR. It does not work well. Very buggy, based on 60,000 that broke down twice in people's homes and are on their way back to Motorola. Yesterday Comcast announced a deal with Samsung to build the new generation of set-top boxes, but we won't see those until early 2007.Buggy is different than failing outright. I did return my first 6412 after a year (trouble accessing recorded content), and returned the first replacement immediately when it would not output via component. But that's the good thing about not buying the equipment. I have experienced some of the 6412's bugs, but, in my experience, they're easy to work around. I may not be "stressing" the DVR as much as some people, but I gave up following the Comcast 6412 thread since so many people were complaining about problems that did not affect me much, or at all. Also, what about the announcement at CES that Panasonic would be providing DVR's to Comcast? That would provide another supplier of DVR's. I have heard that Denver is going to be a test market for these DVR's, but I don't have any confirmed information.
3. Comcast does have HDTV, in certain neighborhoods. It's really hit and miss by neighborhood.This is the first time I've seen someone say that HD availability varied by neighborhood. I believe most of the metro area is built up to support HD. Longmont is a different city, not just a different neighborhood. dave1216 - you can always move to Highlands Ranch like a lot of other transplanted Californians (we moved from San Diego). Comcast provides HD to the entire community, and some of us can even get KMGH OTA.
I've found the HDTV picture through Comcast is inferior to just using an indoor rabbit ears-UHF combination antenna.In my brief experience with OTA, I did not notice any difference in PQ between it and Comcast. Granted that was 2 years ago, but I've seen it mentioned more than once that Comcast does not compress its transmissions of HD channels.
If you can avoid Comcast, my suggestion is that you do. I'm dropping them just as soon as Direct or Dish MPEG 4 is available in Denver, along with the local HD channels. If you're concerned about PQ, how do you reconcile that with the fact that both D* and E* will be using HD Lite, not true HD?
Comcast, on the other hand, is not giving us all of the available HD channels (ESPN2, National Geographic, Universal-HD, TNT-HD, HDNET 1 or 2) and will likely not give us any of the newer ones set for the beginning of the year (HGTV-HD, MTV-HD, Fox-HD, etc.) because they simply don't have the bandswidth for doing so. And they won't have the bandswidth until the Samsung set-top boxes are available.Absolutely no argument with the number of HD channels and the lack of new channels being added. That, coupled with the upcoming price increase does make me think twice about how much I am paying. I really hope that Qwest and Verizon provide HD service to this market (but their penetration would certainly be hit and miss as they start up). I have never heard that bandwidth was constrained by the type of set top boxes. Can you elaborate? Other Comcast markets do have additional HD channels (TNT-HD, some local sports channels - I think in Boston at least) with the 6412. And I don't think these markets have significantly fewer analog or digital channels. I believe it's more of an issue with the infrastructure, not the boxes.

YMMV

HDJello

01-17-06, 10:29 PM

Absolutely no argument with the number of HD channels and the lack of new channels being added. That, coupled with the upcoming price increase does make me think twice about how much I am paying. I really hope that Qwest and Verizon provide HD service to this market (but their penetration would certainly be hit and miss as they start up). I have never heard that bandwidth was constrained by the type of set top boxes. Can you elaborate? Other Comcast markets do have additional HD channels (TNT-HD, some local sports channels - I think in Boston at least) with the 6412. And I don't think these markets have significantly fewer analog or digital channels. I believe it's more of an issue with the infrastructure, not the boxes.

I really don't think there is a significant bandwidth issue either (except in Longmont). There seem to be a modest number of channels available on which to put content, at the very least. I suspect it is a matter of economics. To add more channels they would want to add more HD package tiers so they could charge more for more channels, and whether their systems (delivery, billing, etc.) can handle more pricing tiers is something I don't know.

Over time they will no doubt configure the entire system as digital-only. They already have most of the analog channels up now in Digital also, which I think enables a new box that has only a QAM tuner. At that time, the 70-80 analog channels available could be compressed into the equivalent space of ten channels or less (with a density of 8 SD channels per channel slot), freeing up 60-70 channel slots. With two HD signals per channel slot, that would be enough bandwith for 120-140 additional HD channels, quite an impressive HD offering (though no doubt we will have to get more SD shopping channels along the way :(. The downside of this is that people with cable-ready TV's, VCR's, DVR's, and what not will be put-out (I have a friend in St. Louis with 7 TVs that is going through this now, because Charter is going all Digital very soon, if not already). Eventually all of these devices will be available QAM and cable-card ready.

DP1

01-17-06, 11:25 PM

Yeah I dont see it the same way Bob does either. I've had OTA HD capability since '00 (though I really never use it anymore) and Comcast HD for 2 years.. including 2 6412's for a lil over one year. I've also used DirecTv and Dish for HD in the past.

I got no beefs with Comcast except for maybe the lack of a few HD channels.. although they have some HD channels that the sat co's dont yet offer either to my knowledge, so whatever.

I could still be getting some of the HD channels I'm missing, through E* if I really cared about them. But I'd need to buy a new 8PSK module for my E* receiver which would cost me about 60 bucks. I havent even bothered buying a new one though because even before that module crashed and burned I wasnt bothering to tune to any of those channels anyway. Always was watching something on the Comcast box.. recorded or otherwise. So I just cancelled E*'s HD Pack (which I'd been buying ala carte) and left it at that.

b5lurker

01-17-06, 11:28 PM

On your 921,
Have you ever actually recorded two HD 'cable only' progs at the
same time , cable only = Discovery HD and ESPN HD for example?

Yes, no problems at all. I have actually even recorded 2 HD Dish streams and watched a 3rd prerecorded one. All of them worked perfectly fine, no slow downs or issues with recording quality.

b5lurker

01-17-06, 11:39 PM

The docs suggest that you can tune only one HD sat channel at a time,
i.e. the best it can do is one SD channel and one HD channel. I'm trying to find out
from people who actually have a 942.

Longmont gets only locals, and not even all of them, only CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX.

Roller11,

What docs are you referring to? I knew when I bought my 921 within the first week of them being released (about 3 years ago) that they had the ability to record 2 HD streams and watch a 3rd pre-recorded stream. I'm just curious what kind of misinformation is out there.

LXIX

01-18-06, 12:48 AM

2. There is a DVR. It does not work well. Very buggy, based on 60,000 that broke down twice in people's homes and are on their way back to Motorola. Yesterday Comcast announced a deal with Samsung to build the new generation of set-top boxes, but we won't see those until early 2007.

Check this link http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6297532.html

We should begin to see OCAP DVR boxes in Denver this year! Panasonic will supply at least 250,000 boxes to Comcast (Pana has committed up to 750,000 if Comcast needs them). These Pana boxes are said to have 3 tuners (I was at the CES both when Yoshi Yamada made this statement) and an activated HDMI output.

If I were any of you, I'd put my request in to Comcast today for one of these tuners.

-Matt

gakon

01-18-06, 10:16 AM

I tried to put in my request on Monday, and was denied by the CSR. He had no idea what I was talking about. Any hints?

LXIX

01-18-06, 10:47 AM

I tried to put in my request on Monday, and was denied by the CSR. He had no idea what I was talking about. Any hints?

I wish I could help you. Panasonic has not given a model number, I do know that Yoshi handed over the first receiver to the head guy at Comcast at the CES show in a dog and pony show.

Comcast has stated that they will test the box in Denver (and Philly and another market) this year. I believe that it will begin in March or May.

BobLikesHDTV

01-18-06, 11:21 AM

I don't want to sound like a Comcast cheerleader, but my experience with them in some areas is a little different:
Buggy is different than failing outright. I did return my first 6412 after a year (trouble accessing recorded content), and returned the first replacement immediately when it would not output via component.... YMMV (message truncted)

Where to start.

Apparently there were significant enough failures of the 6412 Phase III boxes that they are/have shipped 60,000 of them back to Motorola from Denver.

This info came to me from the manager in charge of firmware here in Denver. He called me after I contacted them with a question regarding the rumored firmware upgrade from 12.18 to 12.22.

He said they had 60,000 of the Moto boxes in a warehouse ready to ship back to Moto. Each was repaired locally twice after failures in customer's homes. I figure if they're doing that, it's a significant problem. I was a bit incredulous and asked him to repeat the number, that he had said 60,000 and not, say, 6,000. He was emphatic. 60,000.

And now we're hearing they've gone to two new vendors for next generation set-top boxes, Panasonic and Samsung. Between the two, they'll have about 500,000 ready to go in 2007, with subsequent orders for more.

I also got some interesting new information from the manager regarding the firmware upgrade. This is as of 12/21, so things may have changed in the last month.

Comcast rejected the first version, saying it didn't have enough upgrades built in. Here is what we will be getting at some point before mid-2006:

* The Dolby 5.1 playback problem will be fixed.

* The ability to plug an external HD into the USB input

* Limited email capability using the box

* Picture-in-picture

Other general information:

* The price increase is for other markets and not Denver

* The TIVO stuff is still undecided. They don't know if they will make available a new form of middleware, a new TIVO DVR that can be purchased, or both. In any event, it will cost more.

My comments about picture are purely my own. My digital cable pictures look muddy, faded, poor brightness and poor color. It's not my TV or the cabling. I've tried two different HD-digital TVs (Hitachi and Mitsubishi) and both YRB and HDMI cables. The same. And I have just the worst problem with channel 65, whether using the Moto or plugging direct into either a digital or analog TV. I get verticle lines. They say it's bleed-over from a local FM Spanish station and there is nothing they can do about it until a full conversion to digital.

Re your bandswidth comment. The fact is they can only pump so much signal through the fiber optic cable. If they want to put more content into the same space, they must compress and decompress. They already use MPEG2. The Panasonic boxes announced at CES will incorporate that and H.264. So they do compress and want to squeeze it even more. That's fine, as long as there is no loss of signal or resolution. I firmly believe there is both, as witnessed by channels 2 - 99. Everything above that looks okay, except for the movie channels in the 500 range, which also look washed out, faded, poor color and brightness . Try watching IFC or Sundance on a big screen. Only one word for it: muddy. In some other markets they've gotten rid of their PPV channels opting instead to use the OnDemand service for that purpose. The idea is this frees up bandswidth for other things.

Which brings me to the rollout. He advised that the Denver metro area was not fully rebuilt, and that is holding up the full conversion from analog to digital. He said my verticle problems on 65 will go away when they convert to digital. However, I asked him if they are prepared to furnish every subscriber with enough set-top boxes for ever analog TV, VCR and DVD recorder they may have. He said that was another issue. (No kidding!)

About HDTV/ Digital SD OTA versus the box. I wish I had a way to vid-cap the difference between 9.2 OTA (channel 9's all-weather channel) and Comcast 249. It is night-and-day stark. Fox 31's OTA pops, whereas this past weekend it looked grainy while watching the Pittsburg-Indianapolis game via Comcast. We switched to the antenna. Frankly, I'm considering mounting a Winegard PR-9018 antenna on the roof as a backup.

I know my experience does not mean everybody is having problems. But 60,000 defective 6412-III boxes suggests a bit of quality control problem for Moto and Comcast.

Hopefully this was informative and not too long. I'd love for Comcast to improve its service and add HD channels. But after years of this stuff dating back to Jones Intercable, I have my doubts.

Best regards!

BobLikesHDTV

01-18-06, 11:28 AM

I wish I could help you. Panasonic has not given a model number, I do know that Yoshi handed over the first receiver to the head guy at Comcast at the CES show in a dog and pony show.

Comcast has stated that they will test the box in Denver (and Philly and another market) this year. I believe that it will begin in March or May.

I called this morning and asked about it. The CSR said others were calling about it but they had not heard about it. He asked where I got the information, and I said the CES show. He said he would research and get back to me, and if there was a list he'd put me on it.

When and if I hear something new, I will post the info here.

DP1

01-18-06, 01:16 PM

My comments about picture are purely my own. My digital cable pictures look muddy, faded, poor brightness and poor color. It's not my TV or the cabling. I've tried two different HD-digital TVs (Hitachi and Mitsubishi) and both YRB and HDMI cables. The same. And I have just the worst problem with channel 65, whether using the Moto or plugging direct into either a digital or analog TV. I get verticle lines. They say it's bleed-over from a local FM Spanish station and there is nothing they can do about it until a full conversion to digital.

Re your bandswidth comment. The fact is they can only pump so much signal through the fiber optic cable. If they want to put more content into the same space, they must compress and decompress. They already use MPEG2. The Panasonic boxes announced at CES will incorporate that and H.264. So they do compress and want to squeeze it even more. That's fine, as long as there is no loss of signal or resolution. I firmly believe there is both, as witnessed by channels 2 - 99. Everything above that looks okay, except for the movie channels in the 500 range, which also look washed out, faded, poor color and brightness . Try watching IFC or Sundance on a big screen. Only one word for it: muddy. In some other markets they've gotten rid of their PPV channels opting instead to use the OnDemand service for that purpose. The idea is this frees up bandswidth for other things.

Which brings me to the rollout. He advised that the Denver metro area was not fully rebuilt, and that is holding up the full conversion from analog to digital. He said my verticle problems on 65 will go away when they convert to digital. However, I asked him if they are prepared to furnish every subscriber with enough set-top boxes for ever analog TV, VCR and DVD recorder they may have. He said that was another issue. (No kidding!)

About HDTV/ Digital SD OTA versus the box. I wish I had a way to vid-cap the difference between 9.2 OTA (channel 9's all-weather channel) and Comcast 249. It is night-and-day stark. Fox 31's OTA pops, whereas this past weekend it looked grainy while watching the Pittsburg-Indianapolis game via Comcast. We switched to the antenna. Frankly, I'm considering mounting a Winegard PR-9018 antenna on the roof as a backup.

I know my experience does not mean everybody is having problems. But 60,000 defective 6412-III boxes suggests a bit of quality control problem for Moto and Comcast.

Hopefully this was informative and not too long. I'd love for Comcast to improve its service and add HD channels. But after years of this stuff dating back to Jones Intercable, I have my doubts.

Best regards!

Good info there Bob, thanks for taking the time. I had never noticed the diff between 9.2 and 249 because thats a channel I've ever watched for about a total of 20 seconds from either source. But in just now checking it, you're right.. 9.2 is much better. Not sure what Comcast is doin to it. By the same token though, in watching Colorado and Company in HD on 9.1 vs Comcasts 653 I see no difference at all on my 100" screen from any viewing distance.

As far as the Fox reference in regards to football goes, I watched the game via Comcast and the picture looked fine. Nothing made me want to check the OTA version at that particular time so I cant comment on any possible difference.

About channel 65, you're right. It has issues, and in quickly scrolling through a bunch of low numbered SD channels while I was at it, theres more than one that leave something to be desired on PQ..especially on the size screen I use. For me though, here again, the amount of time I ever spend watching those channels is slim and none on anything but a small portable.. cept HGTV once in a while for wifeys sake.

Course back when I was using Dish for all my viewing both SD and the first couple HD channels they offered (I hadnt had cable for 15 years until they rolled out HD), there was no shortage of SD channels that looked rather hideous for one reason or another even on the "small" 55" Mitsu HD set I had at the time. I can only imagine how they'd have looked on the screen size I'm using now. Not to mention Dish has never been notorius for having particularly top shelf equipment of it's own.. although maybe they're getting better at it. I dont know.

In regards to the 6412's I dont doubt theres people have had issues with them. In fact I have 2 of them and the 2nd one I got, months after the first one, I noticed did have some differences connectivity wise so I presume it's a diffferent version. I use that one far less than the first one but if I think about it, while I really dont have many hiccups at all with either one, if I have any at all it's with the 2nd one. So maybe it's part of that bad batch and I'd recognize the problems more if I used it more.

Mind you now that I've had HD in my home for almost 6 years, I dont spend much time obsessing anymore about all the various things that go into it. Be it from a programming, provider, or particular hardware point of view.

I like HD (it's 90% of what I watch) and appreciate what it brings to the table but by now I'm back to looking at it as a whole where it still boils down to "just being tv". As evidenced I suppose by having over 4000 posts in the HDTV forums here over the first 4.5 years discussing all things HD, and less than 50 in the last year. ;)

But anyway, again though, thanks for sharing your observations and communications.

borgdaddy

01-18-06, 03:32 PM

Hey I'm new to the HD world, but was wondering if there is a listing somewhere about which network programs are broadcast in HD?

dr_mal

01-18-06, 03:37 PM

Hey I'm new to the HD world, but was wondering if there is a listing somewhere about which network programs are broadcast in HD?
Welcome!

HDBeat.com (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/01/18/hdtv-listings-for-january-18-2006/) is quite good.

borgdaddy

01-18-06, 03:58 PM

Very cool, thanks for the info.

asuman1179

01-18-06, 04:03 PM

Well it looks like Comcast is going with the Panny for their new cable boxes. They have it as news on hdbeat.

oxothuk

01-18-06, 04:38 PM

Hey I'm new to the HD world, but was wondering if there is a listing somewhere about which network programs are broadcast in HD?Check the HDTV Programming topic for general info. Or you can set up a (free) account at titantv.com to get customized listings.

David James

01-18-06, 04:52 PM

roller11

01-18-06, 06:11 PM

You can file this in the for what it's worth department.

I called Comcast today to ask about the limited HD channels in Longmont. After verifying my address, she asked a "technical manager" about the situation.

She said she was told the other channels will be available in about 2 months. They were doing a "channel split" next week and after a short period, they will open up the other HD channels.

roller11: I know this conflicts with the conversation you had, I don't know what to say. I'm not holding my breath though. I'll call again in a few days, maybe get a different response, maybe not:(

Did you ask her *which* channels? I'm betting their "channel split" is a way to
add WB and PBS to their cable box, something they can do cheaply since
WB and PBS are already on Longmont's cable. This is what she was
calling "other channels". You need to ask specifically
about ESPN HD, Discovery HD, INHD1 and INHD2.

Frazee

01-18-06, 06:30 PM

roller11

01-18-06, 07:01 PM

I just called too, the info I got was that they don't know of anything currently planned, but that they are definitely going to upgrade at "some time". The impression I got was that "we just got some HD here in Longmont" and should be happy with that for now.

That's exactly what I just got. Nobody at Comcast is suggesting that Longmont will have
HD in two months. The only thing that makes sense, the implication of
the officials that have commented, is that the upgrades
cost too much, so Comcast has decided to not do them. That's why
nobody will give a time frame...there isn't one.

I'm going with Dishnetwork when their new box/added channels become
available (Feb. 1, 2006 is the prediction). Nothing will give
me greater pleasure than to call Comcast and cancel my service.

TheBert

01-19-06, 08:24 PM

Just an update for you Comcast guys, FINALLY 7.1 OTA in Longmont 66% on my E*921 and 811 solid lock.

David James

01-19-06, 10:40 PM

Did you ask her *which* channels? I'm betting their "channel split" is a way to
add WB and PBS to their cable box, something they can do cheaply since
WB and PBS are already on Longmont's cable. This is what she was
calling "other channels". You need to ask specifically
about ESPN HD, Discovery HD, INHD1 and INHD2.She mentioned all those (she mentioned INHD, didn't differentiate between 1 & 2).

Maybe I'll call again tomorrow. I talked to "Gretchen".

David James

01-19-06, 10:46 PM

That's exactly what I just got. Nobody at Comcast is suggesting that Longmont will have I have HD in two months.er, I talked to someone who did. Listen friend, I have no idea if she made it up or the person she talked to made it up. I just know what I heard, so lighten up. You don't have a lock on the truth. I'm going with Dishnetwork when their new box/added channels become
available (Feb. 1, 2006 is the prediction). If it wouldn't cost me so much more, I'd join you.

roller11

01-20-06, 11:41 AM

er, I talked to someone who did. Listen friend, I have no idea if she made it up or the person she talked to made it up. I just know what I heard, so lighten up. You don't have a lock on the truth. If it wouldn't cost me so much more, I'd join you.

Nobody's calling you a liar.

Hundreds of calls have been made to Comcast and gotten the same story: no plan,
no schedule for Comcast doing HD in Longmont. You call and their phone rep
says "HD in two months". Not only is this in stark contrast to all other
reports, it's inconsistant with observations and non-actions by Comcast.

Since your post of Jan.18, I've called three times and gotten the same story:
the rep checked with managers, supervisors, technical
specialists and nobody can comment as to why you were given this
incorrect info. Everyone knows about "channels splits", but there isn't
one scheduled for Longmont, and certainly no splits within
the next two weeks or so.

Another observation: Last year, Comcast didn't hesitate to announce their
projected "live" date of Dec.31,2005 for HD in those communities that were
being upgraded. This tells me that if there is a date, Comcast will disclose it.
So if Comcast had an actual funded, signed-off project to
spend the money to implement upgrades in Longmont, they would be shouting about it, not keeping it a secret.

As to Dishnetwork, I don't like paying them $300 up front to get their new box,
but that's a lot better than the $700.00 that they've been charging, especially
with added content that goes along with the new box.

roller11

01-20-06, 11:53 AM

I've seen it mentioned more than once that Comcast does not compress its transmissions of HD channels.
If you're concerned about PQ, how do you reconcile that with the fact that both D* and E* will be using HD Lite, not true HD?

YMMV

I keep reading that the satellite folks don't do "true HD" Where does this
info come from? I've called Dish and they claim their transmission is
1920x1080 for HD. Can anyone provide a link, or some kind of
evidence that satellite is less than full resolution in HD?

mjmbond

01-20-06, 12:33 PM

I keep reading that the satellite folks don't do "true HD" Where does this
info come from? I've called Dish and they claim their transmission is
1920x1080 for HD. Can anyone provide a link, or some kind of
evidence that satellite is less than full resolution in HD?

I believe that the satellite providers generally use a lower bit rate (12mbs) vs. the cable providers (19mbs) for their HD transmissions. (Both providers transmit HD resolutions of 1280x720 & 1920x1080.) A higher bit rate can result in a better (less artifacts) picture.

MiD

HDJello

01-20-06, 01:50 PM

Another observation: Last year, Comcast didn't hesitate to announce their
projected "live" date of Dec.31,2005 for HD in those communities that were
being upgraded. This tells me that if there is a date, Comcast will disclose it.
So if Comcast had an actual funded, signed-off project to
spend the money to implement upgrades in Longmont, they would be shouting about it, not keeping it a secret.

I have found that Comcast in general is not very forthcoming about things HD. The CSRs seem to know little besides how to take orders for new installs and repair services, and have a list of channels offered. I think it was in November when they announced the HD availability in some Northern Colorado communities by December 31 (and beat the date by a couple of weeks). To achieve this date, the project had to have been in the works for months to do the various neighborhood rebuilds they did do in Loveland, Greeley, and Fort Collins. This is an assumption, but the Boulder rebuild took several months, when it was still AT&T Cable. In those days communication was better, IMHO.

When HD first started on Comcast in Denver, they made a big deal about how they were going to have KMGH (which until yesterday was pretty hard to receive OTA), but it actually took several months and an entire season of MNF missed before they actually finalized a carriage agreement. So now news about new channels, etc. seems to be almost after-the-fact.

I think the key question for Longmont is going to be when the current Franchise agreement runs out. If it is relatively soon (next year or two) the city would have negotiation leverage, particularly if they could get get a competitor to possibly run the service instead (I have no idea how likely that would be), to get a rebuild done sooner. Otherwise it might be a while, unfortunately.

gakon

01-20-06, 02:11 PM

I keep reading that the satellite folks don't do "true HD" Where does this info come from? I've called Dish and they claim their transmission is
1920x1080 for HD. Can anyone provide a link, or some kind of
evidence that satellite is less than full resolution in HD?
I don't have evidence, per se, just that there's a lot of discussions about "HD Lite". In the past it has only been an issue for D*, but I have read that E* may also be going that way. I could not find the post that discussed E*, but here are a few other threads.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=630861
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=631261
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=633676
I'm sure there are more out there in the HDTV programming and reception topics.

jpco

01-20-06, 02:17 PM

I keep reading that the satellite folks don't do "true HD" Where does this
info come from? I've called Dish and they claim their transmission is
1920x1080 for HD. Can anyone provide a link, or some kind of
evidence that satellite is less than full resolution in HD?

There have been numerous threads here with this information. Some was via D* Tivo before a firmware upgrade, which allowed analysis of bit rates. In other cases, data was captured to computers. Lately, I think E* has admitted the downrezzing. If you do a search, you'll find real evidence.

And after 2 years with D*, I have seen noticeably improved picture quality with Comcast the past month or so.

dr_mal

01-20-06, 02:22 PM

(Both providers transmit HD resolutions of 1280x720 & 1920x1080.)
Not true. Before D* forced TiVo to roll out a software patch that disabled it, there was a secret code you could punch on your remote to see the resolution the TiVo was receiving. While D* used to do 1920x1080 for HDNet when it was their only HD channel, once they added all the other channels in the HD package, the resolution the HD TiVos were receiving went down to 1280x1080. Once that news erupted on the internet, D* had TiVo disable that secret remote key sequence.

Just another one of the reasons I'm feeling no loyalty to D* any more.

roller11

01-20-06, 02:26 PM

I think it was in November when they announced the HD availability in some Northern Colorado communities by December 31 (and beat the date by a couple of weeks).

No, the CSR's began the "HD available by Dec.31, 2005" predictions in March of 2005.
In late Oct. 2005 they firmed up the date to "by Nov. 30, 2005". For most of
2005, they went out of their way to assure me that I'd have my HD in
2005.

To achieve this date, the project had to have been in the works for months to do the various neighborhood rebuilds they did do in Loveland, Greeley, and Fort Collins.

Exactly right, and so it is with Longmont. If there exists an actual signed off
project for Longmont, Comcast would be working on it now. At a minumum, there
would be a project manager assigned, purchase orders submitted, reqisitions for head-end
equipment, installation schedules, etc.
If Comcast had anything resembling plan, there would a turn-on date for HD in Longmont, and
they would want everyone to know that date so as to discourage them
from commiting to the satellite providers.

I think the key question for Longmont is going to be when the current Franchise agreement runs out. If it is relatively soon (next year or two) the city would have negotiation leverage, particularly if they could get get a competitor to possibly run the service instead (I have no idea how likely that would be), to get a rebuild done sooner. Otherwise it might be a while, unfortunately.

Some would say "a year or two" is 'a while'.

The exec at Comcast told Longmont's chief information officer that Comcast's
plan for Longmont is to go 'all digital'. This will allow C to enter new markets like
VoD, phone service over internet, high definition TV, services we don't have now. The tech for this
is estimated to be feasible in about a year. C doesn't want to spend a bunch
of money now to get 'only' HDTV , then have to spend more money in a year
to go all digital. Better for them to wait when it is more cost effective.
Of course all this comes at the expense of the citizens of Longmont, since there is
no benefit to us to be denied HD for an extra year.
In other words, when we finally do get HD, it won't be any better just because
it is delivered on an all-digital network, it will merely bring us up to the
same level that Denver, Loveland, etc. have had all along, no improvement.
It's a clear cut case of newer doesn't mean better, just cheaper.

roller11

01-20-06, 03:35 PM

There have been numerous threads here with this information. Some was via D* Tivo before a firmware upgrade, which allowed analysis of bit rates. In other cases, data was captured to computers. Lately, I think E* has admitted the downrezzing. If you do a search, you'll find real evidence.

And after 2 years with D*, I have seen noticeably improved picture quality with Comcast the past month or so.

If I lived anywhere except Longmont, I wouldn't be concerned cause I could go with
Comcast which has full 1920x1080. But HD via Comcast in Longmont is over a year away, so that's not an option.

One thing for sure...if Dish really is down rezzing their HD to non-HD, I'll know it as
soon as I tune in "Office" on NBC or "Still Standing" on CBS. These shows are the
pinnacle of PQ, and on my new 1920x1080 JVC TV, I'll see a different between
my current OTA/Comcast setup and Dish if Dish is anything less than 1920x1080.
If Dish is downgraded, then it goes back to Dish under the 72 hour
"buyers remorse" law. That leaves me exactly where I am now, no
HD except the locals, no MNF, no ESPN HD, no Discovery HD.

BTW, I'm assuming that any downrezzing on Dish is occuring now, independant
of the box. I.E. all Dish boxes (811, 921, 942) are afflicted so the new
622 box with MPEG-4 will be no better or worse than their current boxes, is
this correct?

73rian

01-20-06, 04:46 PM

After getting my new Sony HD DVR (DHG-HDD250) setup, I was looking for a list of all the HD and digital channels I could receive without a CableCARD. I currently have Standard service so there are only a few channels I can’t get without it (Discovery HD, INHD, ESPN HD). I will probably pay the $30 fee to have one installed soon, but will be using my DVR for a while without it. I couldn’t find the list anywhere so I took the time to create one last night. Hopefully this will be useful to others. It appears that Comcast is simulcasting nearly all the analog channels in digital so I’m going to reprogram my DVR TV Guide with the digital channels to improve recording quality.

Here’s the list:
Comcastl QAM Station
2 81.1 WB (KWGN)
3 81.3 UPN (KTVD)
4 81.5 CBS (KCNC)
5 83.2 CET
6 81.7 PBS (KRMA)
7 81.6 ABC (KMGH)
8 Municipal Channel
9 81.8 NBC (KUSA)
10 82.6 Telefutura
11 85.4 The Discovery Channel
12 82.8 PBS (KBDI)
13 81.4 FOX
15 83.1 Leased Access
17 82.1 PAX TV
19 KRMT
20 82.2 KDEN
21 84.7 Home Shopping Network
22 Local Access
23 85.2 MTV
24 85.3 USA
25 86.3 Altitude
26 103.8 Fox Sports Rocky Mountain
27 103.10 FX
28 85.7 Nickelodeon
29 83.5 Disney Channel
30 84.1 Animal Planet
31 103.9 Cartoon Network
32 85.6 The Learning Channel
33 103.4 ABC Family
34 103.1 ESPN
35 86.7 ESPN2
36 86.8 History Channel
37 84.3 CNN Headline News
38 84.2 CNN
39 86.9 Home & Garden TV
40 104.5 TNT
41 86.1 A&E
42 104.2 Fox News
43 86.10 Lifetime
44 104.3 Spike TV
45 104.1 The Weather Channel
46 103.7 CNBC
47 103.5 Food Network
48 85.8 Sci-Fi
49 104.6 TBS Superstation
50 82.4 Univision
51 83.4 Azteca America
52 82.7 WGN
53 82.3 KWHD
54 Local Access
55 84.8 QVC
57 84.5 C-SPAN
58 103.2 Hallmark Channel
59 104.10 Fit TV
60 82.5 Telemundo
61 83.8 BRAVO (M-F 5:30pm-4am; Weekends 3:30pm-4am)
61 83.8 Local Access (M-F 4am-5:30pm; Weekends 4am-3:30pm)
62 84.6 C-SPAN 2
64 85.5 AMC
65 103.6 MSNBC
66 85.9 VH-1
67 83.3 Turner Classic Movies
68 86.6 E!
69 84.4 The Golf Channel
70 86.4 Oxygen
71 86.2 Court TV
72 86.5 Comedy Central
73 104.8 Outdoor Life
74 103.3 Travel Channel
75 Galavision
76 85.10 Toon Disney
77 104.9 Speed Channel
78 104.4 TV Land
95 85.1 BET
99 83.10 TV Guide
247 105.9 KMGH (ABC) Digital News
249 112.13 NBC Weather Plus
652 89.1 ABC HD (KMGH-DT)
653 91.1 NBC HD (KUSA-DT)
654 18.1 CBS HD (KCNC-DT)
655 90.1 FOX HD (KDVR-DT)
656 89.2 WB HD (KWGN-DT)
658 91.2 PBS HD (KRMA-DT)
663 Discovery HD Theater
664 iN DEMAND1 HD
665 iN DEMAND2 HD
668 ESPN HD
900-957 87.15 to 87.27 Digital Music
100.21 to 100.28
108.15 to 108.25
119.15 to 119.32

73rian

01-20-06, 04:53 PM

Now a few questions for people with CableCARD experience:

1) Once the CableCARD is installed, when I select channel 2 (WB) for example, will the DVR tune in analog channel 2 or simulcast digital channel 81.1?

2) Will the Comcast assigned channel numbers such as 652 work? What about the QAM numbers such as 89.1 -- will they still work too or just the new ones?

3) Since I shouldn't be getting the music channels with my Standard subscription, will they no longer be accessible once the CableCARD is installed?

4) Is there a fee from Comcast for renting the CableCARD with a Standard subscription? I've been told by the Comcast reps that there's no additional charge for the CableCARD with this subscription plan but I've learned to be skeptical until I see the bill.

Thanks.

jpco

01-20-06, 07:30 PM

BTW, I'm assuming that any downrezzing on Dish is occuring now, independant
of the box. I.E. all Dish boxes (811, 921, 942) are afflicted so the new
622 box with MPEG-4 will be no better or worse than their current boxes, is
this correct?

I was DirecTV, not Dish (E* here), so I'm not sure, but there is a lot of discussion of the MPEG-4 transition in these threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=628298

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=616427

avsdude

01-20-06, 07:48 PM

Now a few questions for people with CableCARD experience:

1) Once the CableCARD is installed, when I select channel 2 (WB) for example, will the DVR tune in analog channel 2 or simulcast digital channel 81.1?

Can't tell for sure but it looks like you get the simulcast digital channel.

2) Will the Comcast assigned channel numbers such as 652 work? What about the QAM numbers such as 89.1 -- will they still work too or just the new ones?

You only get the comcast assigned numbers -- 652.

3) Since I shouldn't be getting the music channels with my Standard subscription, will they no longer be accessible once the CableCARD is installed?

I get them both with and without the cable card w/ the Digital Silver package, so I don't know.

4) Is there a fee from Comcast for renting the CableCARD with a Standard subscription? I've been told by the Comcast reps that there's no additional charge for the CableCARD with this subscription plan but I've learned to be skeptical until I see the bill.
Thanks.

The web site says free but they are charging me $5.00 a month and calling it an HD outlet fee.

mayest

01-20-06, 08:32 PM

Anybody else having this problem?

I suddenly have a series recording set for Dancing with the Stars. I've never watched this program and have no desire to, or to record it. I cannot eliminate the recording, except by scheduling other programs that conflict with the time. I really hope that Comcast isn't forcing recordings now.

Tim

gakon

01-20-06, 11:57 PM

Anybody else having this problem?
I suddenly have a series recording set for Dancing with the Stars. I've never watched this program and have no desire to, or to record it. I cannot eliminate the recording, except by scheduling other programs that conflict with the time. I really hope that Comcast isn't forcing recordings now.No such phantom recording here.

mayest

01-21-06, 01:37 AM

gakon,

Thanks. Must be a fluke on my machine. Probably needs another unplugging. Still, I can imagine this kind of thing in the future. The networks would probably be willing to pay to have their shows automagically recorded on the DVRs.

Your User Name:

01-22-06, 12:35 PM

roller11

01-22-06, 01:58 PM

To those folks who have both Comcast HD and Satellite HD:
How does the PQ of, say, Discovery HD/ESPN HD compare,
Satellite vs Comcast? I'm asking because Comcast doesn't offer
HD programming to Longmont, and I keep reading that D* and E*
don't offer HD on their services, their Discovery HD and ESPN HD
is reported to be 1280x1080 which isn't HD. If these reports are true,
only Comcast offers real HD (1920x1080) so I'd like to hear from folks since
I can't verify any of this.

Lee Smith

01-22-06, 11:13 PM

roller11,

E* only does the VOOM channels at 1280x1080.

The ones you listed, DiscoveryHD and ESPN HD are at 1080I and 720P respectively.

And, to answer your question, I cannot, as I only the get the locals via cable in HD.

BobLikesHDTV

01-23-06, 10:50 AM

6412? I've never had something recorded that I didn't set, but I do have an entry in my recorded programs listing that has no title and a "date recorded" of 12/31/1989. Obviously, the 6412 wasn't even a gleam in its creator's eye at that time. I can't delete it either. If I try the DVR locks up and needs to be reset.

That is bad news. Comcast won't admit it, but it's a virus. And it's beginning to gobble up your 6412's hard drive. In time you may see more than one entry, each of which takes up about 4% of the hard drive. I ended up with three of thse on one drive and talked to a friend who is a computer wonk. He said the HD was being corrupted by a virus of some sort. Comcast CS said there was no known fix and suggested I swap boxes.

So, first call CS and see if they have any new boxes available at your local Comcast office. If so, find out where it is, disconnect your box and swap it out at the office. Then connect it up at home (fairly simple), contact Customer Service, and ask them to authorize the box.

I've had this happen twice. The 6412 boxes are a disaster, frankly, especially the Phase III model. If I were you I'd ask specifically for a Phase II box. They seem the least buggy AND you don't lose your Dolby 5.1 on playback of a program broadcast in it. You do with the Phase III. If they don't have them, word has it a new firmware upgrade is being written specifically for the Phase III box that will correct that and other problems. But I'll believe it when I see it implemented.

The good news is Comcrash has authorized close to 500,000 new DVR and set-top boxes from Panasonic and Samsung for delivery next year, with an option for over a million more if these prove good. The CSRs don't know anything about it, but the announcements were made at CES earlier this month. Motorola is DOA at Comcast.

Panasonic:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060104/nyw185.html?.v=19

Samsung

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6297160.html

Good luck.

BobLikesHDTV

01-23-06, 05:13 PM

captainjy

01-23-06, 08:24 PM

I am kinda chiming in on the D* VS. Comcast topic here. I haven't had D* HD, but we did just leave D* for Comcast because of price. Comcast offered Internet and HD/DVR for a pretty nice price. I just didn't want to spend $300 for their equipment and D* doesn't have local HD channels right now. However, I will say that D* DVR/Tivo service completely destroys Comcast's offering and by far, IMO. I can't stand the Motorola 6412. Before Friday, our unit was just horrible. It was so loud and slow, but Friday Comcast came out and replaced our Phase II with a Phase III and it's been so much quieter and better. The tech who came out was nice enough to give us a free HDMI cable and a free optical audio cable. He told me that the first Motorola and the Phase II were bad, really bad. He said that they had literally thousands of customers return them.

I don't really have a baseline to compare the two for HD, but I will say this, I am very unimpressed with Comcast and their bandwidth limitations, their DVR service and their HD offerings. IMO, the HD offerings are weak. INHD and INHD2 are ok, but nothing great. Discovery is awesome, but who wants to watch it all day long? ESPN is nothing special. HBO is ok, but the only real use for HBO HD is the Sopranos in March. For being the so-called cable giant, I would expect better hardware and better architecture so in the end, it's just better service or what we could truly call Comcastic.

I have been hearing "HD-Lite" in the same sentence as D*. If this is true, that really sucks especially considering that satellite is so wide open in terms of bandwidth. That's enticing to me because more bandwidth usually means better quality. I am sure there are some technical limitations to that statement so correct me if I am wrong. I would really like to go back to D*, but if it is "lite", you can count me out. What about Dish Network? Any word of whether or not they are pumping out "HD-lite?"

Lastly, we watched, what should have been a very close and exciting game yesterday. I guess you could call it the AFC Championship game and just like the game, signal was terrible- pixelated and jerky a lot. Were we the only ones having this problem or did anyone else experience this?

borgdaddy

01-24-06, 09:57 AM

Your User Name:

01-24-06, 10:55 AM

That is bad news. Comcast won't admit it, but it's a virus. And it's beginning to gobble up your 6412's hard drive. In time you may see more than one entry, each of which takes up about 4% of the hard drive. I ended up with three of thse on one drive and talked to a friend who is a computer wonk. He said the HD was being corrupted by a virus of some sort. Comcast CS said there was no known fix and suggested I swap boxes.

So, first call CS and see if they have any new boxes available at your local Comcast office. If so, find out where it is, disconnect your box and swap it out at the office. Then connect it up at home (fairly simple), contact Customer Service, and ask them to authorize the box.

I've had this happen twice. The 6412 boxes are a disaster, frankly, especially the Phase III model. If I were you I'd ask specifically for a Phase II box. They seem the least buggy AND you don't lose your Dolby 5.1 on playback of a program broadcast in it. You do with the Phase III. If they don't have them, word has it a new firmware upgrade is being written specifically for the Phase III box that will correct that and other problems. But I'll believe it when I see it implemented.

The good news is Comcrash has authorized close to 500,000 new DVR and set-top boxes from Panasonic and Samsung for delivery next year, with an option for over a million more if these prove good. The CSRs don't know anything about it, but the announcements were made at CES earlier this month. Motorola is DOA at Comcast.

Panasonic:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060104/nyw185.html?.v=19

Samsung

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6297160.html

Good luck.

Thanks for the info. I've had that one entry for at least 8 months and I haven't noticed any reduction in hard drive space. I don't know if I have a phase II or III. I'll call Comcast and see what I can do.

What happened to the Tivo deal? Did I imagine that? I thought that sometime this year Comcast would be going to Tivo.

dr_mal

01-24-06, 11:18 AM

What happened to the Tivo deal? Did I imagine that? I thought that sometime this year Comcast would be going to Tivo.
From what I understand as of CES:

TiVo is still on track to deliver the TiVo software to Comcast to be rolled out on 6412s sometime this year. There's a rumour going around that they were actually demoing the TiVo software on a 6412 in a private room to Comcast execs. This rumour has not been verified, so take it for what it's worth.

TiVo also showed off, and plans to sell in the second half of this year, a standalone TiVo box with 2 CableCard slots in it. This would enable the TiVo fanatics (like myself) to buy a "real" TiVo box, but have it work with any cable company in the US. PPV and VOD will not work with this box, but it will have all TiVo features known to man including dual tuners, HD, TiVo2Go, HME, etc. It also has the capability to record OTA NTSC and ATSC channels.

Lots of TiVo discussion over at www.tivocommunity.com (sister board to AVS)

wmarkw

01-24-06, 01:56 PM

We’ll I’m a some what frustrated Comcast user. I love their HSI and the fact that the HD is not “lite” yet and the PQ is great. I’m upset with the fact that other markets have the 1.22 firmware upgrade that fixes the DD recording issue and Denver does not. Also the big reason is D* and E* announcing all of the new HD channels arriving soon and NOT one peep out of Comcast. I mean MHD is broadcasting from Vail, CO and you would figure that Denver or any surrounding Colorado markets would be the first to have it, but no, places like OK, GA and even the Bayou are the first to have it. That’s very lame. I’ve called them several times and asked about what’s on tap this year and they have no idea. Also while I’m ranting I was trying to lower my bill and a CSR told me that she thought paying $130+ a month was a great deal and I was lucky to have such great service and that it really should cost me more. WTF! Like they were doing me a favor.

Anyways quick question…how do you tell the bit rates that channels are outputting? Everyone talks about 15-30 mbs or something but how do you tell? I have the 6412 III.

Thanks!

Mark

BobLikesHDTV

01-24-06, 02:42 PM

Thanks for the info. I've had that one entry for at least 8 months and I haven't noticed any reduction in hard drive space. I don't know if I have a phase II or III. I'll call Comcast and see what I can do.

What happened to the Tivo deal? Did I imagine that? I thought that sometime this year Comcast would be going to Tivo.

It will say PHASE III on the front of the box, lower right-hand side. If I remember this right, the PII says something to that effect on the model number label on the back.

Well, I'm off to the local Comcrash office with box #4 in 4 months. The problems this time on Phase III: changing from SD to HD gives me a blank screen on the TV. When checking to see if this does it with a direct connection to my ATSC/QAM tuner, it does not. Not the TV. Also, the box is hanging up and, when it does, stops recording and playing. It will resume playback, but not the recording. So, we missed the last 20 minutes of "24" and "Las Vegas" last night.

If anybody can tell us what happened, it's much appreciated.

For "24", we were at the point where Martha, the president's wife, escaped. For "Las Vegas", they had just figured out Lara Flynn-Boyle's character had swapped out the cash box for a 21 table.

Thanks!

---
2:32 PM Update

Just got back from Comcrash local office with a new 6412. It's not a Phase III. No HDMI hookup. That's a $30 cable shot! Sons a &^#@$.

What in the bloody #*@# is wrong with this lousy, horse-and-buggy company?

Time to get aggressive at franchise renewal time. Maybe a large citizens group can get them to either improve or get out!

roller11

01-24-06, 03:42 PM

We’ll I’m a some what frustrated Comcast user. I love their HSI and the fact that the HD is not “lite” yet and the PQ is great. I’m upset with the fact that other markets have the 1.22 firmware upgrade that fixes the DD recording issue and Denver does not.

Oh boohoo...at least you have HD on Comcast. In Longmont,
Comcast doesn't offer HD *at all*.

Also the big reason is D* and E* announcing all of the new HD channels arriving soon and NOT one peep out of Comcast.

These new channels come at a price, poor PQ. I would rather have Comcast's 4 channels in
HD than the 25 non-HD channels that Dish is calling HD.

I mean MHD is broadcasting from Vail, CO

What's MHD?

Anyways quick question…how do you tell the bit rates that channels are outputting? Everyone talks about 15-30 mbs or something but how do you tell? I have the 6412 III.

Get the CapDVHS freeware that is available on the web. All you need do is
connect from one of the 1394 ports on the 6412 to a PC 1394 port, load the drivers, and it will give a real time readout of the captures bit rate and resolution
and framerate. I've tried it, it works.

BobLikesHDTV

01-24-06, 04:39 PM

Oh boohoo...at least you have HD on Comcast. In Longmont,
Comcast doesn't offer HD *at all*.

These new channels come at a price, poor PQ. I would rather have Comcast's 4 channels in
HD than the 25 non-HD channels that Dish is calling HD.

What's MHD?

Get the CapDVHS freeware that is available on the web. All you need do is
connect from one of the 1394 ports on the 6412 to a PC 1394 port, load the drivers, and it will give a real time readout of the captures bit rate and resolution
and framerate. I've tried it, it works.

Why are you "Boo Hooing" this fellow for telling it straight and telling it right? Why are you angry with him?

If Comcrash isn't giving you good service, start a pressure group and go after whoever in your county gave them the franchise. Drive them crazy at the next council/board meeting. Keep on them and get them to demand that Comcrash update the system now. If not, demand that Comcrash be kicked out in favor of another cable company.

Comcrash doesn't own the franchise. They are given a license by the municipality. That can be taken away. Put the pressure on. Be merciless.

wmarkw

01-24-06, 05:01 PM

Oh boohoo...at least you have HD on Comcast. In Longmont,
Comcast doesn't offer HD *at all*.

These new channels come at a price, poor PQ. I would rather have Comcast's 4 channels in
HD than the 25 non-HD channels that Dish is calling HD.

What's MHD?

Get the CapDVHS freeware that is available on the web. All you need do is
connect from one of the 1394 ports on the 6412 to a PC 1394 port, load the drivers, and it will give a real time readout of the captures bit rate and resolution
and framerate. I've tried it, it works.

Ahh I take no offense. I would be frustrated as hell with Comcast. I’ve read some of your posts and it has to be annoying for sure. But when you do manage to get Comcast you will be more infuriated that there is little HD programming.

MHD is MTV’s new HD channel that I guess is blowing everybody away with the programming and stunning PQ. They have played three of my favorite band’s concerts in HD: Coldplay, Foo Fighters, and Green Day. I’m a big music guy and I would love to see this channel. Of course by the time we get it, there will be nothing but HD reruns of Road Rules and other crap reality.

I will check out your CapDVHS freeware suggestion.

roller11

01-24-06, 05:16 PM

If Comcrash isn't giving you good service, start a pressure group and go after whoever in your county gave them the franchise. Drive them crazy at the next council/board meeting. Keep on them and get them to demand that Comcrash update the system now. If not, demand that Comcrash be kicked out in favor of another cable company.

Comcrash doesn't own the franchise. They are given a license by the municipality. That can be taken away. Put the pressure on. Be merciless.

This is exactly what I've done. Unfortunately, no other providers
are stepping up and offering to take their place. Plus, there are
legal issues, contracts in place that must be honored until their expiration.

DP1

01-24-06, 06:01 PM

The thing is, for about 95% of the country theres no such thing as the perfect HD provider.

E* started out as the leader back in '99-00 but their hardware has always been bush league. Maybe it's finally getting better although I'd doubt it. Then they didnt add any HD for the longest time.. now they're rolling some more out. But they're also messing with resolution on at least some of the channels.

D* has always had top shelf hardware but they dragged their feet so bad in the past in regards to adding new content that it's not even funny. They didnt add Discovery HD for over a year after it was first made available. It took them 2.5 years to add Showtime HD. Maybe they've been doin a little better in adding content more recently, but they too are messing with resolution big time.

Neither of them have Starz! HD or Cinemax HD. Or the InHD's. But Comcast does. Then again Comcast doesnt have the TNT HD's or the HDNets for example. Not to mention Comcast couldnt even spell HDTV until a couple years ago when the sat co's had been offering it for years. Comcasts hardware has some issues but at least one doesnt have to drop hundreds of dollars for the "priviledge" of using it.

Anyway, point being, all one can do is weigh each provider against the other based on where they live and what their needs/wants are. Or, as some people do, even use multiple providers to get the most HD possible. Use E* AND Comcast for example and you can do it without paying for a lot of redundancy in channels since E*'s HD Pack can be bought without having to pay for a ton of SD channels you wouldnt need.

I used to do that.. but thats when there was so very few HD channels to begin with. Now even with Comcast alone, while I wish they had more channels, I have no shortage of things to watch. Theres only so many hours to devote to tv afterall.

BobLikesHDTV

01-24-06, 06:09 PM

This is exactly what I've done. Unfortunately, no other providers
are stepping up and offering to take their place. Plus, there are
legal issues, contracts in place that must be honored until their expiration.

If I may ask, do the contracts that are in place stipulate performance requirements? If so, this may be where pressure can best be applied.

Another thing I did in Denver was ask for credit every time there was a problem. I had a problem they simply wouldn't fix for over a year, and every month I got a $25 credit until somebody auditing the account found it. Then suddenly they got interested in a repair. I had a feeling that would get their attention.

If everybody did that for substandard service, they would cave. Guaranteed. They couldn't afford it.

paintit77

01-24-06, 06:16 PM

I keep reading that the satellite folks don't do "true HD" Where does this
info come from? I've called Dish and they claim their transmission is
1920x1080 for HD. Can anyone provide a link, or some kind of
evidence that satellite is less than full resolution in HD?

D* Only broadcasts in 1220x1080i even ESPN-HD is in that same resolution.
E* is the same except for the original HD channels. All of the new HD channels will be around 1220x1080i with the exception of the 720p channels which will be in their orginal form. When Crapcast begins doing the same, I will be gone.

BobLikesHDTV

01-24-06, 06:18 PM

It appears that Comcast's answer to the problems with the 6412 Phase III box is to issue the 6412 Phase II.

That's fine, except it has no HDMI output.

The DVI works, however, and the picture through it is nothing short of breathtaking on HD. Truly amazing.

The drawback to using DVI is I get no menus with it. If there is a work-around or adjustment I may make to the box to get menus, I would greatly appreciate your advice.

Thanks, all!

roller11

01-24-06, 06:22 PM

If I may ask, do the contracts that are in place stipulate performance requirements? If so, this may be where pressure can best be applied.

No. By contract, Comcast is merely required to provide the same level of service to
all the various neighborhoods in Longmont, they can't discriminate. Of course
in Longmont this means level of non-service.

If everybody did that for substandard service, they would cave. Guaranteed. They couldn't afford it.

No doubt if everyone in Longmont cancelled their subscriptions due to
sub-standard service, Comcast would spend the money to do the necessary upgrades.
Likewise, if every satellite sub cancelled their service with D* and E* until
these providers restored their Voom, etc. channels back to HD, as they were a year ago, then we would once again have HD via satellite.

roller11

01-24-06, 06:37 PM

D* Only broadcasts in 1220x1080i even ESPN-HD is in that same resolution.
E* is the same except for the original HD channels. All of the new HD channels will be around 1220x1080i with the exception of the 720p channels which will be in their orginal form. When Crapcast begins doing the same, I will be gone.

What are you defining as the 'original Dish channels', and what res is that? All channels that are
currently in their lineup, including Voom?

I read all sorts of stuff on the web, yet nobody ever provides a link to
any kind of official company statement as to the res that both E* and D*
are broadcasting. If one calls Dish, Dish pretends that they don't even understand
the question. All they will say is that they broadcast 1080 scan lines,
but that is obviously meaningless.

All I know is that as long as the satellite folks have financial incentive to degrade
the PQ, they will, especially when the public at large doesn't understand
that added channels mean poor PQ. Perhaps when 1920x1080 DVD's
become available the public consciousness will be raised and HD will return.

DP1

01-24-06, 07:20 PM

I read all sorts of stuff on the web, yet nobody ever provides a link to
any kind of official company statement as to the res that both E* and D*
are broadcasting. If one calls Dish, Dish pretends that they don't even understand
the question. All they will say is that they broadcast 1080 scan lines,
but that is obviously meaningless.

You wont get an official company statement in regards to something like that. Just as you wont get one in regards to SD channels other than "100% digital quality".. they forget to add the part about being compressed to beat hell.

But just as with your earlier example as to how to test resolution and bitrates from a Comcast box for example, theres guys who have the means to do it from satellite too one way or another.

It's not like everybody is suggesting they use those resolutions purely based on how they "look".

roller11

01-24-06, 07:59 PM

But just as with your earlier example as to how to test resolution and bitrates from a Comcast box for example, theres guys who have the means to do it from satellite too one way or another.

For res numbers to mean anything they must be verifiable by anyone with the equipment.
The Satellite boxes don't have a 1394 port, so I don't see anyway the res can be
measured, like it can on the Comcast 6412. So all we have is "some guy said" rumors which is worthless.

jpco

01-24-06, 08:40 PM

DP1

01-24-06, 08:58 PM

For res numbers to mean anything they must be verifiable by anyone with the equipment.
The Satellite boxes don't have a 1394 port, so I don't see anyway the res can be
measured, like it can on the Comcast 6412. So all we have is "some guy said" rumors which is worthless.

Didnt I just say guys have the equipment with sat boxes too? Maybe you need to keep reading up on it. Although I cant believe some of those links that were provided earlier werent enough.

As one example, ever heard of a RCA DTC-100? It was the first generation D* HD box. A company called 169time devised a hack that gave that box HD Firewire output back in the day before there were HD PVR's and the like. It was one of the very very few ways to record HD content.

As others have mentioned you could even get some of that info from an HDTivo with a few button presses not long ago.

Guys have the equipment, hacked or otherwise.

But if you dont wanna believe that AVS Forums is full of engineers, people in the know with relationships with the big wigs at some of these companies (like in the case of E* where they admit the Voom channels are lower rez), even hackers with "modified" equipment.... then dont.

Wait for the press releases instead. The ones that say "Let us be your HD provider! While we dont offer full blown HD, it looks far better than you're used to and more than likely if you're not a true a/v enthusiast you wont know the difference! And the good news is, by doing it that way we can offer you many more channels to boot! Sign up today!" ;)

roller11

01-24-06, 10:19 PM

Didnt I just say guys have the equipment with sat boxes too?

As I said, to be meaningful, these 'reported' measures of res must be verifiable,
which means measured on currently available boxes from Dish and DirectTV, none of
which have a 1394 port. In contrast, anyone can take a Comcast 6412 and
measure the res, bitrate, and bandwidth of whatever channel is being tuned.

AVS Forums is full of engineers, people in the know with relationships with the big wigs at some of these companies (like in the case of E* where they admit the Voom channels are lower rez), even hackers with "modified" equipment

More "Some guy said" anecdotes... interesting, but not evidence.
And E* is not admitting that Voom channels aren't in HD.

"Let us be your HD provider! While we dont offer full blown HD...,

You will never see a press release in which Dish or DirectTV admit that they don't offer HD programming.

DP1

01-24-06, 11:17 PM

As I said, to be meaningful, these 'reported' measures of res must be verifiable,
which means measured on currently available boxes from Dish and DirectTV, none of
which have a 1394 port. In contrast, anyone can take a Comcast 6412 and
measure the res, bitrate, and bandwidth of whatever channel is being tuned.

Currently available? Like I said, I can go to 169time.com and buy modified D* or E* HD boxes (or send in ones I already have to be modified) right now with 1394 output. If that doesnt count for anything in your mind because they're not the newest model boxes or because of the fact that they didnt come from the factory with the 1394 port, so be it.

I dont know that those facts would stand in the way of simply reading the output stream for better or worse on the various HD channels. But if you have reason to believe it would, thats fine.

bill-fc

01-24-06, 11:56 PM

captainjy

01-25-06, 04:35 AM

I had D* until summer, and lived with only OTA CBS/Fox in HD until Comcast HD became available here in Nov. The PQ on DISC HD and ESPN appear identical (D* vs Comcast) to me -- excellent. Sorry, no quantitative data. No matter what they promise, ABC, Fox and ESPN can't be better than 720p; that's what they use. Again, good live 720p looks just as good as 1080i here. If you get them in via satellite in 1200+x1080, they are translated with possible PQ loss. Also, Comcast uses QAM 256 -- about 50% compression -- is there some PQ loss there? If there is I don't notice it.

Finally the 6412 I was issued is the model DCT6412/2005, supposedly manufactured 2nd half 2005. It's worked fine over the 2 months I've had it except for the known occasional delays to act on remote button pushes, shut-off if turned on by record request when finished, and the squirrelly tuner switching. I have had problems with VOD (sometimes it doesn't work requiring 6412 off/on, and the free HD movies sound starts to drop out after 10-15 minutes. It isn't worth it to me to even turn it off let alone call Comcast because I've already seen *both!* free HD VOD offerings.

Bill

I am far from a professional and I cannot compare between DTV and Comcast, but Comcast has been very unimpressive as far as I am concerned. The 6412 is a joke. The channels change slow, it can be loud, and the DVR seems to do whatever it wants to at times. The volume seems to go up and down a lot with Comcast's service, too. DTV's Tivo service just blew this Comcast crap away. Besides, my wife says Comcast sucks and she's the Commander-in-Chief around here! :)

I know it's been mentioned here and I probably missed it, but really, where is the proof positive that DTV and Dish are pumping out "HD-Lite?" I don't doubt anyone's accusations or conclusions, but I want to go back to DTV because I not satisified with Comcast.

I think DP1 said something to the effect, "Afterall, it's just a TV." Very true. After all this tweaking, adjusting, and buying the TV, stand, warranty, cables, changing service, buying cables, reading the forums, and so on, I realized that HD is a very sick gimmick that is not quite ready for primetime. Pixelation, compression, tinkering...what happened to just sitting down and watching your favorite show? Life seemed so much easier with a tube TV!

jpco

01-25-06, 08:31 AM

roller11

01-25-06, 10:14 AM

If that doesnt count for anything in your mind because they're not the newest model boxes

I said 'available', not 'newest'...don't misquote me.

I never said it is impossible for anyone on planet Earth to measure
the res of D* or E* given unlimited financial/technical resources. Sure, one can:
1. Buy the company and set policy
2. Obtain a standard, currently available box, pay someone a bunch of money
to do a one-off mod, connect time-domain instrumentation like
a digital scope, or Logic State Analyzer, then, measure the resolution.
3. Obtain a EE degree and design your own box with 1394 out.

Lots of ways to verify these reports.

I'll say this a third time...these 'reports' of downresing are anecdotes. One can't
verify the results with a currently available box from either D* or E*, so these
are merely stories, nothing more. And, no, a specially modified, hand-tweaked, one-off, extra expense box doesn't count.

roller11

01-25-06, 10:57 AM

I had D* until summer, and lived with only OTA CBS/Fox in HD until Comcast HD became available here in Nov. The PQ on DISC HD and ESPN appear identical (D* vs Comcast) to me -- excellent. Sorry, no quantitative data. No matter what they promise, ABC, Fox and ESPN can't be better than 720p; that's what they use. Again, good live 720p looks just as good as 1080i here. If you get them in via satellite in 1200+x1080, they are translated with possible PQ loss. Also, Comcast uses QAM 256 -- about 50% compression -- is there some PQ loss there? If there is I don't notice it.

Finally the 6412 I was issued is the model DCT6412/2005, supposedly manufactured 2nd half 2005. It's worked fine over the 2 months I've had it except for the known occasional delays to act on remote button pushes, shut-off if turned on by record request when finished, and the squirrelly tuner switching. I have had problems with VOD (sometimes it doesn't work requiring 6412 off/on, and the free HD movies sound starts to drop out after 10-15 minutes. It isn't worth it to me to even turn it off let alone call Comcast because I've already seen *both!* free HD VOD offerings.

I traded my E* service for Comcast in Dec. 2005. At first, I was frustrated
with my 6412 cause it is clunky vs the Dish 510 box. Now, I realize it
isn't so bad cause at the end of the day, it has two tuners and I can
watch all previously recorded HD primetime, non-cable programs with superb
PQ. Sure, I wish it was more reliable, but it is FAR better than my Fusion
HDTV tuner card (OTA) which is how I got my HD before C offered the token
4 locals on their system here in Longmont.
To me, PQ is everything, so I'll take an occasional glitch, or slow channel
changing. Heck, I'll even accept a limited number of channels over degraded PQ,
which brings me to E*.
I hear two different rumors:
1. E* currently transmits at least some of their
channels in 1920x1080, and,
2. E* currently transmits all channels in 1280x1080.

The fact that E* won't publicly disclose their resolution strongly
suggests the later is true. But since C* has no cable channels
at all in Longmont, it matters a great deal whether or not Discovery HD is
1920x1080 from E*, or if it is 1280x1080. Another question is
locals: when E* starts providing locals in Longmont, will it be
at 1920x1080 or will the resolution be crippled? I would hate
to trade in superb 1920x1080 Comcast for degraded 1280x1080
E*.

DP1

01-25-06, 12:07 PM

I'll say this a third time...these 'reports' of downresing are anecdotes. One can't
verify the results with a currently available box from either D* or E*, so these
are merely stories, nothing more. And, no, a specially modified, hand-tweaked, one-off, extra expense box doesn't count.

Thats laughable. Doesnt count because *you* dont have one of those boxes to measure it with? I might as well say measuring off a Comcast box doesnt count to me either then simply because *I* dont have the CapDVHS freeware thats needed. Yeah I could get the freeware.. but you could also visit someone who has one of those boxes in their home. Theres more than a few in operation around the country afterall since they've been selling those boxes for years to guys that want to dump satellite HD to D-VHS.

Or just visit a Dish HD sub in general. See what you think. Do the mainstream HD channels look pretty good? Do the Voom channels leave something to be desired.. or not? Visit some with D* for that matter too.

Obviously you're not going to believe anything you read until you see it with your own eyes. I'm sure Charlie Ergen himself could call you and tell you the Voom channels are currently 1280x1080 (while the rest of the HD channels are full resolution.. [DirecTv is the provider where all channels are 1280x1080]) and you still wouldnt believe it. Course your doubt would still have some merit because he's been known to say a lot of things that arent necessarily true anyway. Purposely or otherwise.

I'll assume your question about the HD Locals wasnt really a question but you merely wondering out loud since nobody could possibly give you a satisfactory answer at this point. Mind you even if they are 1920x1080 they still might not "look" as good as what you're currently getting. Time (and your eyes) will tell.

So just order yourself the system. Take a look at the Discovery's and ESPN's. Take a look at the Voom channels. Evaluate the Locals when available and get back to us with the results. Then we could quit dickering about what constitutes proof in regards to resolution and what doesnt. I'm sure the picture you see on your tv would be all the evidence that is needed.

roller11

01-25-06, 01:50 PM

So just order yourself the system. Take a look at the Discovery's and ESPN's. Take a look at the Voom channels. Evaluate the Locals when available and get back to us with the results. Then we could quit dickering about what constitutes proof in regards to resolution and what doesnt. I'm sure the picture you see on your tv would be all the evidence that is needed.

This, of course, has been my intention all along. Problem is,
no HD cable channels are available on Comcast, so I have to wait
until Dish offers the locals to make a comparison, and that could be several
months.

TheBert

01-25-06, 01:58 PM

This, of course, has been my intention all along. Problem is,
no HD cable channels are available on Comcast, so I have to wait
until Dish offers the locals to make a comparison, and that could be several
months.

April 1st according to Charlie Chat eariler tihs month.

John Boy

01-25-06, 02:25 PM

I guess I got a good 6412, but I'm experiencing none of the problems that the previous two posters are. Maybe your boxes are defective.

I'm not in love with the 6412, but it's functional and does everything it's supposed to except play certain DVR recordings in DD. No lag on the remote, no phantom channel changes, no problems with OnDemand audio or video. And the PQ is better (less pixellated) than D*, HD-Lite or no.

Of course, if you're not satisfied, try another provider, but it doesn't sound like the quality you are receiving matches what Comcast is delivering here. Maybe an exchange of the STB is needed.

edit: I never turn to box off as recommended by some other posts on this forum.

I just got Comcast a month ago and the HD 6412 works ok, but it could use more recording space. The only "problem" I have experienced is the delay in changing channels and volume differences on different channels. I like INHD and INHD2, but would really like INHD2 to get rid of there LOGO which stays on all program long :( Like was mentioned before, wish they would get more HD channels ie. TNT hd's and the HD Net's. I had D* before and have their HD receiver, but not their HD DVR, too expensive $500.00 approx. I put D* on "vacation" pricing. I think I read in an earlier
post that you can just get D* HD package only?? If that is right, it was only $10.99 a month so I may go back and get it. Also ..I always turn off the box when not watching, with no problems.

dr_mal

01-25-06, 03:07 PM

I know it's been mentioned here and I probably missed it, but really, where is the proof positive that DTV and Dish are pumping out "HD-Lite?" I don't doubt anyone's accusations or conclusions, but I want to go back to DTV because I not satisified with Comcast.
Fact: When the D* HR10-250s originally shipped, there was a key combination you could press to see the resolution of the currently-tuned channel.
Fact: The D* HD channels used to say 1920x1088 (why 1088 instead of 1080? Beats me. Probably something to do with D*'s encoding)
Fact: The D* HD channels all switched to 1280x1088.
Fact: D* had TiVo roll out a patch that disabled the resolution display.

I've personally witnessed the middle two facts.

Now, could D* have increased the resolution of their HD channels? Sure, they could have. But the fact they're trying to hide the resolution is not a good indicator. Not to mention they've only been adding channels since then, with the same amount of fixed bandwidth available to them. There is no logical basis for D* having gone back to full resolution. No anecdotal evidence, no improvement in detail, nothing.

I remember when I first turned on my D* HD service - HDNet just popped. It was amazing. That clarity doesn't exist on any of my D* HD channels anymore. Sure, that's anecdotal evidence, with the evidence I saw (actual resolutions displayed from the TiVo while it was still available) I'm comfortable stating that D* is committed to HD-Lite. At least until the Spaceway satellites are up and the MPEG-4 conversion is complete. We'll see what happens then.

In the meantime, I'm drawn to Comcast since all the evidence I've heard is that they don't bitstarve/recompress/turn into HD-Lite their HD channels. That and a real TiVo due out this year.

DP1

01-25-06, 03:29 PM

I think I read in an earlier post that you can just get D* HD package only?? If that is right, it was only $10.99 a month so I may go back and get it.

I dont think you can do that with D* unless something has changed (course you could always call and try). You need to sub to Total Choice before you can add their HD Pack. Which brings redundancy in to play.

When I mentioned it earlier I was referring to E* who has always given a person certain ala carte options. It's just that if you didnt sub to an SD package first, you had to pay a $5 monthly "Access fee" on top of the cost of whatever programming you were buying.

John Boy

01-25-06, 04:09 PM

I dont think you can do that with D* unless something has changed (course you could always call and try). You need to sub to Total Choice before you can add their HD Pack. Which brings redundancy in to play.

When I mentioned it earlier I was referring to E* who has always given a person certain ala carte options. It's just that if you didnt sub to an SD package first, you had to pay a $5 monthly "Access fee" on top of the cost of whatever programming you were buying.

Thanks Dan, I am sure now, thinking about it, that you are correct about the total choice and the HD package with D*.

roller11

01-25-06, 04:52 PM

I'm comfortable stating that D* is committed to HD-Lite. At least until the Spaceway satellites are up and the MPEG-4 conversion is complete. We'll see what happens then.

In the meantime, I'm drawn to Comcast since all the evidence I've heard is that they don't bitstarve/recompress/turn into HD-Lite their HD channels. That and a real TiVo due out this year.

When are the Spaceway sats due up?

dr_mal

01-25-06, 04:58 PM

When are the Spaceway sats due up?
My bad.

They're both up.

They've started rolling out local channels in HD to a few of the 12 markets that will be serviced by the first Spaceway satellite. Denver is scheduled to be serviced by the 2nd Spaceway satellite, which is up, but not in position yet.

I *think* that what I've seen in the D* hardware forum of this board indicates Denver locals from D* around June. ish.

roller11

01-25-06, 05:59 PM

My bad.

They're both up.

They've started rolling out local channels in HD to a few of the 12 markets that will be serviced by the first Spaceway satellite. Denver is scheduled to be serviced by the 2nd Spaceway satellite, which is up, but not in position yet.

I *think* that what I've seen in the D* hardware forum of this board indicates Denver locals from D* around June. ish.

I've called D* but they won't give me any info. Are they saying anything about
adding new HD channels, or converting existing ones to mpeg4?
As I see it, there is no chance D* will convert back to real HD until they go
to mpeg4, if then.

gakon

01-25-06, 06:12 PM

Comcast rate increase (http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=03b0b946-0abe-421a-00a1-9eaf7c9627c4&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf)
Not a surprise, but I think there were a few posts that said we wouldn't be seeing a rate increase. I think it would be interesting to see what a la carte pricing would do, since I would really only want the HD channels (not just the locals, but with the DVR) plus standard cable.

captainjy

01-25-06, 06:25 PM

Fact: When the D* HR10-250s originally shipped, there was a key combination you could press to see the resolution of the currently-tuned channel.
Fact: The D* HD channels used to say 1920x1088 (why 1088 instead of 1080? Beats me. Probably something to do with D*'s encoding)
Fact: The D* HD channels all switched to 1280x1088.
Fact: D* had TiVo roll out a patch that disabled the resolution display.

I've personally witnessed the middle two facts.

Now, could D* have increased the resolution of their HD channels? Sure, they could have. But the fact they're trying to hide the resolution is not a good indicator. Not to mention they've only been adding channels since then, with the same amount of fixed bandwidth available to them. There is no logical basis for D* having gone back to full resolution. No anecdotal evidence, no improvement in detail, nothing.

I remember when I first turned on my D* HD service - HDNet just popped. It was amazing. That clarity doesn't exist on any of my D* HD channels anymore. Sure, that's anecdotal evidence, with the evidence I saw (actual resolutions displayed from the TiVo while it was still available) I'm comfortable stating that D* is committed to HD-Lite. At least until the Spaceway satellites are up and the MPEG-4 conversion is complete. We'll see what happens then.

In the meantime, I'm drawn to Comcast since all the evidence I've heard is that they don't bitstarve/recompress/turn into HD-Lite their HD channels. That and a real TiVo due out this year.

Very convincing and unfortunate. I notice you live in Brighton. We are in Thornton/Brighton, just west of the Adams County Fairgrounds. So am I understanding you right that you are still with D*? I know I make a pretty big deal about Comcast, but that aren't THAT bad, however, as I have said before, for being a so-called BIG BOY Cable outfit, they are not very impressive.

What about Dish Network? Are they pumping HD-Lite, too?

What is Spaceway? Never heard of that before. Hey, thanks for your input. I will say this, if Tivo does actually materialize soon, we may stay with Comcast.

dr_mal

01-25-06, 06:41 PM

I've called D* but they won't give me any info. Are they saying anything about
adding new HD channels, or converting existing ones to mpeg4?
As I see it, there is no chance D* will convert back to real HD until they go
to mpeg4, if then.
D* never releases information to CSRs, let alone consumers, until new services are already active.

Best source for D* rumours is the "HDTV Programming" forum here. I'm not aware of any new channel plans or mpeg2-mpeg4 conversion plans for existing channels, but I'm hardly an authoritative voice on that matter.

dr_mal

01-25-06, 06:55 PM

Very convincing and unfortunate. I notice you live in Brighton. We are in Thornton/Brighton, just west of the Adams County Fairgrounds. So am I understanding you right that you are still with D*? I know I make a pretty big deal about Comcast, but that aren't THAT bad, however, as I have said before, for being a so-called BIG BOY Cable outfit, they are not very impressive.
For me, it's all about the TiVo capability. So I'm still with D*. Even way up in Brighton, I can get all (now that KMGH finally moved :D ) the local HD stations, so I don't need to depend on Comcast or HD LiL from the satellite companies for that side of HD. If D* hadn't thrown TiVo to the curb in favour of their proprietary DVR, I'd probably just stick with D* and wait for the MPEG-4 conversion to see if they improve the quality of the non-network HD content.

What about Dish Network? Are they pumping HD-Lite, too?
I have no direct experience or knowledge of Dish Network. I think they have a mix of full resolution and HD-Lite at the moment.

What is Spaceway? Never heard of that before.
D*'s new satellites are Spaceway satellites - not sure if Spaceway is the name of the company that manufactured them, or if it relates to some sort of technology on board. The important bit of Spaceway is that they have the capacity to provide every local HD channel to every market in the US + about 150 national HD channels using the newer MPEG4 format. Currently, all of D*'s content is encoded using MPEG2. Lots more information in the "HDTV Hardware" forum here.

Hey, thanks for your input.
No problem!

I will say this, if Tivo does actually materialize soon, we may stay with Comcast.
And that's kind of where I'm at as well. If I could keep using my current D* HD TiVo forever, I'd probably stick with D*. But since any new channels they add will be MPEG4 (which the current D* HD TiVo cannot decode), I may as well go over to Comcast and get the non-local HD uncompressed. I still intend to use my OTA antenna for local HD - no sense in risking downconversion at the hands of D*, E*, or C*. So at this point, D* has no future growth for me. If/when I move over to C*, I'll at a minimum get the TiVo functionality that D* has blocked for the last two years - folders, HMO/HME, undelete (which was just leaked at engadget.com today)... And if/when C* ever adds new channels, the Series 3 TiVo will be able to tune/record them for me.

captainjy

01-25-06, 07:28 PM

For me, it's all about the TiVo capability. So I'm still with D*. Even way up in Brighton, I can get all (now that KMGH finally moved :D ) the local HD stations, so I don't need to depend on Comcast or HD LiL from the satellite companies for that side of HD. If D* hadn't thrown TiVo to the curb in favour of their proprietary DVR, I'd probably just stick with D* and wait for the MPEG-4 conversion to see if they improve the quality of the non-network HD content.

I have no direct experience or knowledge of Dish Network. I think they have a mix of full resolution and HD-Lite at the moment.

D*'s new satellites are Spaceway satellites - not sure if Spaceway is the name of the company that manufactured them, or if it relates to some sort of technology on board. The important bit of Spaceway is that they have the capacity to provide every local HD channel to every market in the US + about 150 national HD channels using the newer MPEG4 format. Currently, all of D*'s content is encoded using MPEG2. Lots more information in the "HDTV Hardware" forum here.

No problem!

And that's kind of where I'm at as well. If I could keep using my current D* HD TiVo forever, I'd probably stick with D*. But since any new channels they add will be MPEG4 (which the current D* HD TiVo cannot decode), I may as well go over to Comcast and get the non-local HD uncompressed. I still intend to use my OTA antenna for local HD - no sense in risking downconversion at the hands of D*, E*, or C*. So at this point, D* has no future growth for me. If/when I move over to C*, I'll at a minimum get the TiVo functionality that D* has blocked for the last two years - folders, HMO/HME, undelete (which was just leaked at engadget.com today)... And if/when C* ever adds new channels, the Series 3 TiVo will be able to tune/record them for me.

Tivo is just so much better than Comcast's DVR service. I know, I keep pounding that in, but it really is. I hope that Comcast gets Tivo soon. Man, I'll tell you, we had D* for 3 years and I loved them. Had 2 problems, both when there were blizzards. Other than that, service was stellar. Tivo was a bonus. I miss it. I agree, I wish D* would have allowed users access to the Home Networking function. That would have been sweet. Perhaps Comcast will not restrict this. Again, another reason to possibly stay with Comcast if Tivo ever does see the light of day.

My wife is so upset at the loudness of the Phase III unit, the slowness of the channels and the up and down volume problems we have had that she's ready to pay the $300 or whatever the price to go back to D*. Appreciate your input. This Spaceway thing sounds sweet. Thanks again!

dr_mal

01-25-06, 07:35 PM

Sorry for all the not-entirely-related-to-Comcast posts lately. This one actually is specific to Comcast :)

Tivo is just so much better than Comcast's DVR service. I know, I keep pounding that in, but it really is. I hope that Comcast gets Tivo soon. Man, I'll tell you, we had D* for 3 years and I loved them. Had 2 problems, both when there were blizzards. Other than that, service was stellar. Tivo was a bonus. I miss it. I agree, I wish D* would have allowed users access to the Home Networking function. That would have been sweet. Perhaps Comcast will not restrict this. Again, another reason to possibly stay with Comcast if Tivo ever does see the light of day.
Don't forget there will be two TiVo options with Comcast by the end of the year (as long as everything goes according to plan)

* A Motorola 6412 with TiVo software running on it. Low/no upfront hardware cost, but potentially limited feature-wise by Comcast.
* A TiVo Series 3 with CableCard slots. High ($600-$800?) upfront hardware cost, but Comcast would have no control over it. This box will not support VOD or PPV. IMHO, VOD and PPV are irrelevant if you have TiVo, so no biggie for me.

dd2

01-25-06, 10:33 PM

HDJello

01-25-06, 10:47 PM

This box will not support VOD or PPV. IMHO, VOD and PPV are irrelevant if you have TiVo, so no biggie for me.

I'm not sure I agree w.r.t. PPV. Some programming is only available through that venue (though admittedly right now very little of that is HD). Clearly TiVo eliminates the need for VOD.

HDJello

01-25-06, 10:51 PM

Please don't hate me for asking this, but I'm a latecomer and it's a challenge to dig through the jillions of search results to get this specific answer...

Is it possible to tune in the networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, etc...) in HD with a QAM tuner (that I provide) by subscribing to just Comcast Basic service, currently going for $13.44/month? Or is another higher level package required?

Thanks in advance!
Yes. The OTA networks are not scrambled (apparently by FCC directive). In some cases you might have to have Comcast remove trap filters or old splitters. Some tuners have problems with some channels (like a Samsung QAM tuner having problems with KCNC-DT on 18.1). The biggest issue is that if you have problems, Comcast may not be the the most generous in providing service.

dr_mal

01-26-06, 12:19 AM

I'm not sure I agree w.r.t. PPV. Some programming is only available through that venue (though admittedly right now very little of that is HD). Clearly TiVo eliminates the need for VOD.
Fair enough. I guess for me, I usually have such a stockpile of recorded shows, by the time I get around to actually watching something I've recorded from PPV, it's available somewhere else...whether it's HBO, DVD rental, or even NBC or TNT :)

wmarkw

01-26-06, 09:22 AM

I had a weird situation last night. I turned on my dlp to watch American Idol and there was a green pixilation going on across the screen. It was happening on every other HD channel too. I called Comcast and had a tech reset my box and it ended up going away. Has anyone every experience anything like this? Bizarre!

marciaandpaul

01-29-06, 06:18 PM

Yes. The OTA networks are not scrambled (apparently by FCC directive). In some cases you might have to have Comcast remove trap filters or old splitters. Some tuners have problems with some channels (like a Samsung QAM tuner having problems with KCNC-DT on 18.1). The biggest issue is that if you have problems, Comcast may not be the the most generous in providing service.

If you can get them to remove the traps, I'ld like to know. I just tried to get a cable card from them to watch the local HD broadcasts, and the "person" at the window said I'ld have to order the Basic Digital Package to receive those stations.

I think an antenna in the attic may be my answer.

Paul

HDJello

01-29-06, 11:31 PM

If you can get them to remove the traps, I'ld like to know. I just tried to get a cable card from them to watch the local HD broadcasts, and the "person" at the window said I'ld have to order the Basic Digital Package to receive those stations.

I think an antenna in the attic may be my answer.

Paul
You sure are getting the Comcast run-around. Unfortunately the CSRs are poorly trained on what is really available and what the deal is. The person at the "window" is correct, in that you only need the cable card to tune in channels in the digital package. You might be able to "temporarily" rent the HD box to get the local channels, for $5 a month, and then get them to fix it. I do have the Digital package, so they did come out and resolve my problems.

TheBert

01-30-06, 01:23 PM

HDJello

02-02-06, 02:04 PM

BobLikesHDTV

02-03-06, 01:29 PM

We might get some of the Olympics coverage from Universal HD on INHD2. But Comcast probably wont tell us about it :).

Universal HD Coming To Comcast (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=639557)

I sure hope so.

You know, the other day I was surfing the few HD channels we have when I saw on INHD-1 a, you will not believe this, high school basketball game from KANSAS!

High school.

Now, I am no station programmer in real life nor do I play one on TV. But you have to be pretty hard up for programming to do something as inane as that.

They've scraped below the bottom of the barrell at INHD. Now they're digging for China.

I'd rather watch a test pattern.

If there is anybody here from Comcras.. err Comcast, you have to do better than this. Get rid of these two lousy INHD channels and replace them with something else. If Altitude goes HD 24/7, by goodness that is a tremendous gain. Universal-HD, ESPN2-HD (although watching billiards in HD isn't my idea of ecstasy), TNT-HD, HDNET. Anything else. Please!

I'm beggin' ya!

albundyru

02-04-06, 08:01 PM

Strange, but it seems like nobody has posted yet a QAM channel lineup for Denver (ex-"Mile HI cable" area).
Here it is. I hope, some people will find it usefull.
Don't know why, but I can't find Bravo using QAM.

Sorted by channel:

Channel QAM Channel Name

2 81.2 WB
3 81.1 UPN
4 81.6 CBS
5 83.2 CET
6 81.5 KRMA PBS
7 81.4 ABC
9 81.3 NBC
10 82.3 Telefutura
11 85.4 The Discovery Channel
12 82.4 KBDI PBS
13 81.7 FOX
17 82.6 PAX TV
21 84.6 HSN
23 85.6 MTV
24 85.9 USA
25 86.2 Altitude
26 103.5 FSN
27 103.6 FX
28 85.7 Nickelodeon
29 83.3 Disney Channel
30 84.1 Animal Planet
31 103.2 Cartoon Network
32 85.8 TLC
33 103.1 ABC Family
34 103.4 ESPN
35 86.6 ESPN2
36 86.7 History Channel
37 84.5 CNN Headline News
38 84.2 CNN
39 86.8 HGTV
40 104.9 TNT
41 86.1 A&E
42 104.1 Fox News
43 86.9 Lifetime
44 104.6 Spike TV
45 104.8 The Weather Channel
46 103.3 CNBC
47 103.9 Food Network
48 85.5 Sci-Fi
49 104.7 TBS
50 82.1 Univision
51 83.1 Azteca America
52 82.8 WGN
60 82.5 Telemundo
61 BRAVO (M-F 17:30-4:00 S-Su 15:30-4:00)
62 103.7 Hallmark Channel
63 84.3 C-SPAN
64 85.2 AMC
65 103.8 MSNBC
66 85.10 VH1
67 83.7 Turner Classic Movies
68 86.5 E!
69 84.7 The Golf Channel
70 86.10 Oxygen
71 86.4 Court TV
72 86.3 Comedy Central
73 104.5 OLN
74 103.10 Travel Channel
75 83.4 Galavision
76 85.1 Toon Disney
77 84.10 QVC
78 104.10 TV Land
95 85.3 BET
96 84.4 C-SPAN 2
99 83.9 TV Guide
222 104.2 FitTV
247 105.3 KMGH (ABC) Digital News
249 112.17 KUSA (NBC) Weather +
408 104.3 Speed Channel
652 89.1 KMGH (ABC) DT
653 91.1 KUSA (NBC) HD
654 18.1 KCNC (CBS) HD
655 90.1 KDVR (FOX) HD
656 89.2 KWGN (WB) HD
658 91.2 KRMA (PBS) HD

Sorted by QAM channel:

QAM Channel Channel Name

18.1 654 KCNC (CBS) HD
81.1 3 UPN
81.2 2 WB
81.3 9 NBC
81.4 7 ABC
81.5 6 KRMA PBS
81.6 4 CBS
81.7 13 FOX
82.1 50 Univision
82.3 10 Telefutura
82.4 12 KBDI PBS
82.5 60 Telemundo
82.6 17 PAX TV
82.8 52 WGN
83.1 51 Azteca America
83.2 5 CET
83.3 29 Disney Channel
83.4 75 Galavision
83.7 67 Turner Classic Movies
83.9 99 TV Guide
84.1 30 Animal Planet
84.10 77 QVC
84.2 38 CNN
84.3 63 C-SPAN
84.4 96 C-SPAN 2
84.5 37 CNN Headline News
84.6 21 HSN
84.7 69 The Golf Channel
85.10 66 VH1
85.1 76 Toon Disney
85.2 64 AMC
85.3 95 BET
85.4 11 The Discovery Channel
85.5 48 Sci-Fi
85.6 23 MTV
85.7 28 Nickelodeon
85.8 32 TLC
85.9 24 USA
86.1 41 A&E
86.10 70 Oxygen
86.2 25 Altitude
86.3 72 Comedy Central
86.4 71 Court TV
86.5 68 E!
86.6 35 ESPN2
86.7 36 History Channel
86.8 39 HGTV
86.9 43 Lifetime
89.1 652 KMGH (ABC) DT
89.2 656 KWGN (WB) HD
90.1 655 KDVR (FOX) HD
91.1 653 KUSA (NBC) HD
91.2 658 KRMA (PBS) HD
103.1 33 ABC Family
103.10 74 Travel Channel
103.2 31 Cartoon Network
103.3 46 CNBC
103.4 34 ESPN
103.5 26 FSN
103.6 27 FX
103.7 62 Hallmark Channel
103.8 65 MSNBC
103.9 47 Food Network
104.1 42 Fox News
104.10 78 TV Land
104.2 222 FitTV
104.3 408 Speed Channel
104.5 73 OLN
104.6 44 Spike TV
104.7 49 TBS
104.8 45 The Weather Channel
104.9 40 TNT
105.3 247 KMGH (ABC) Digital News
112.17 249 KUSA (NBC) Weather +

EDIT: Added "Univision"

BobLikesHDTV

02-05-06, 10:35 AM

Strange, but it seems like nobody has posted yet a QAM channel lineup for Denver (ex-"Mile HI cable" area).
Here it is. I hope, some people will find it usefull.
Don't know why, but I can't find Univision and Bravo using QAM.

People do. One thing I've noticed is Comcast keeps rechanneling in the 81 range.

I would also suggest that for those with QAM/ATSC, watch the Super Bowl game that way today and not through the Comcast box. You will see a sharper picture. Of course if you have a pair of rabbit ears with a UHF antenna, try connecting the UHF antenna to one of the antenna inputs and then search out the channels. KMGH (Super Bowl channel) is channel 17 and is now booming in all the way into central Jeffco with no problems. I've heard people as far north as Longmont can see if fairly well. It's transmitter antenna is located downtown on the Republic Plaza building, as are several of the others.

Why am I suggesting this? It's the best picture of all. Unreal picture, actually.

Enjoy!

buy4less

02-06-06, 03:55 PM

anyone using Cable Card and having problems getting the TVGuide listings?

I had cablecard installed a few weeks ago, panasonic TH-50PX500U tv. at first, the TVGuide showed the channel lineup but no listings. After a few days of not getting any updates, I tried to re-do the TV Guide setup. Now it is not getting the Channel lineup or the listings.

I called Comcast, and they came over but couldn't do anything. They said it may have to do with Comcast changing the channel from 6 to 81 or 82 for getting the listings. They said to call Panasonic.

Called Panasonic, they say it's not likely to be the channel thing or a firmware upggrade. They are forwarding to TVGuide for them to reveiw it. Any ideas?

captainjy

02-06-06, 05:58 PM

I am guessing it's a bandwidth problem, but it seems like every time we are watching a channel that many other people are probably watching like the Super Bowl and when the AFC Championship game was on, we are seeing a lot of jerkyness, kind of like a slight delay in the broadcast. Is this a 6412 problem or a bandwidth issue?

gakon

02-06-06, 06:47 PM

bkleven

02-06-06, 08:36 PM

For those in Longmont watching Comcast...

Looks like we now have WB2 and KRMA-DT. These are the QAM channels I am getting:

68-1 KMGH-DT (ABC)
68-2 KCNC-DT (CBS)
69-1 KDVR-DT (FOX)
69-2 KUSA-DT (NBC)
87-1 KWGN-DT (WB)
87-2 KRMA-DT (PBS)

There are also several other channels (85-*, 86-*, etc.) that only have -1 and -2 coming in, but showing no picture. Perhaps future HD channels?

The only remaining channel for HD would be KTVD-DT (UPN). This is good news - now I don't have to fiddle with the OTA antenna for a while. I will eventually, but I have some time to get it figured out now, which is good because I don't think I'm going to get any RP stations anyway.

Any Longmont folks with a Comcast box getting these channels now? Presumably the are somewhere in the 600's, close to the other -DT stations.

captainjy

02-06-06, 11:38 PM

I didn't notice any jerkyness in yesterday's game or in the AFC game. You don't say where you are - not all locations have the same bandwidth. If you don't see it on other channels and at other times, then it's probably not a 6412 issue. If you do notice it again, try switching tuners to see if that makes a difference.

Brighton/Thornton. I have only noticed this twice- Superbowl and AFC championship game for the most part. It seems very bandwidth-related.

HDJello

02-06-06, 11:44 PM

Brighton/Thornton. I have only noticed this twice- Superbowl and AFC championship game for the most part. It seems very bandwidth-related.
I didn't have any jerkiness with either of these events here in Boulder. I saw something like that on an SD HBO channel in the 500s a long time back, but never on the OTA stuff. I was pretty pleased with the quality of the broadcast, all-in-all. For yesterday's game I did change the output of the box from 1080i to 720p, and thought the picture was better (I also had the game on my LCD TV in another room, which is native 720p and has a built-in QAM tuner, and no box). In general, I prefer my TV's scaler to the box's scaler any day, and this box doesn't seem to have any kind of "native" setting.

HDNair

02-07-06, 01:46 PM

Anyone heard anything about Comcast possibly picking up any HD broadcasts of Olympic games? I'm really only interested in hockey. I tried to ask Comcast about it via email but I got their usual automated response which answered nothing.

roller11

02-07-06, 02:08 PM

For those in Longmont watching Comcast...

Looks like we now have WB2 and KRMA-DT.

Old news...this has been widely reported since Nov.22.

This is good news -

No, it isn't. WB/PBS are available only if one happens to
have a built in QAM tuner which means you can't record these channels
so it's pretty much worthless.

Any Longmont folks with a Comcast box getting these channels now? Presumably the are somewhere in the 600's, close to the other -DT stations.

No, these channels are not available on any Comcast box, so they can't be recorded. This will continue to be the case until sometime in first half of 2007
when Comcast will upgrade Longmont to HD capable. Until then, no HD for
Longmont. No Sunday night football, no Monday night football, no Discovery HD.

dallasfan

02-07-06, 02:11 PM

HDJello

02-07-06, 02:48 PM

No, it isn't. WB/PBS are available only if one happens to
have a built in QAM tuner which means you can't record these channels
so it's pretty much worthless.

I still wonder why Comcast has WB and PBS on the system but not accessible to the Moto box. Unless some parts of Longmont cannot receive channel 87 and the franchise agreement doesn't permit them to offer it where it does work. I would think, for example, that as Longmont has grown (I have seen much growth in NE and SW Longmont) the newer areas have cable infrastructure that is much more capable than what is available in the older parts of town.

In the meantime, you could actually obtain something like an LG LST-3410A DVR, which has been discontinued by LG but used ones are available (there is one for sale on ebay right now). This is an ATSC/QAM tuner with a PVR, and a firewire output. I don't know much about this unit and do not own one personally. I think there are also PC Cards with QAM tuners that could be used in an HTPC context. There are a few other DVRs out there but they are very expensive. Tivo is rumored to be releasing a cable-card capable DVR sometime this year. At any rate, Comcast is not making it easy for you :(.

No, these channels are not available on any Comcast box, so they can't be recorded. This will continue to be the case until sometime in first half of 2007
when Comcast will upgrade Longmont to HD capable. Until then, no HD for
Longmont. No Sunday night football, no Monday night football, no Discovery HD.
I believe that next year Sunday night football will be on NBC. You might want to start saying something more accurate than "no HD". Hyperbole does not help your cause.

bkleven

02-07-06, 03:01 PM

Old news...this has been widely reported since Nov.22.

Hmm... I don't think 'widely' is the appropriate adjective. I've been reading both Denver forums since sometime this summer, and at most I saw one report of someone picking up PBS or WB via a QAM tuner in Longmont. Doesn't mean other reports didn't happen, but the highly dismissive tone of your comment, given the circumstances, seems a bit unwarranted.

No, it isn't. WB/PBS are available only if one happens to
have a built in QAM tuner which means you can't record these channels
so it's pretty much worthless.

Worthless for you perhaps, but not everyone else. Even though the channels in question cannot be recorded with a Comcast box, that does not eliminate the possiblity of recording them. If I install a QAM tuner in one of my PC's, reformat and install MCE 2005, and hook it up to my network, I can watch these channels through my Xbox360. Hardly worthless to me, or anyone else with an MCE 2005 PC that has a QAM tuner installed.

No, these channels are not available on any Comcast box, so they can't be recorded. This will continue to be the case until sometime in first half of 2007
when Comcast will upgrade Longmont to HD capable. Until then, no HD for
Longmont. No Sunday night football, no Monday night football, no Discovery HD.

For those of you with Comcast boxes, the situation does suck. However, the only HD I will ever care about getting from Comcrap is local stations. I now can get all the stations I care about. If I want ESPN-HD or any other such programming, I'll just get DirecTV. Since HD locals is a big deal to me, and I have big issues with paying for TWO television programming services, I'll probably dump Comcrap and switch to DirecTV once they have HD locals for Denver.

bkleven

02-07-06, 03:09 PM

Checked this morning...still the same old four HD channels. Also, have you noticed that if you look at the Comcast channel lineup for Longmont we are supposedly getting Channes 247 and 249, the Digital Weather channels of ABC 7 and NBC 9 as of 2/1/06. I don't see them on my Comcast DVR, does anyone else?

Unfortunately, the stations are on the system, but apparently not visible by the Comcast box. Seems to be the rule of thumb for Longmont.

The stations are as noted below on my Panny QAM tuner:

90-11 KMGH 24/7 Local News/Weather
90-12 KUSA Weather Plus

Even though this isn't really related, there are several other odd stations that we pick up through QAM even though we are subscribed to Analog Standard Cable. Some examples are MoviePlex, ToonDisney, FitTV and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head.

David James

02-07-06, 03:24 PM

Unfortunately, the stations are on the system, but apparently not visible by the Comcast box. Seems to be the rule of thumb for Longmont.

The stations are as noted below on my Panny QAM tuner:

90-11 KMGH 24/7 Local News/Weather
90-12 KUSA Weather Plus

Even though this isn't really related, there are several other odd stations that we pick up through QAM even though we are subscribed to Analog Standard Cable. Some examples are MoviePlex, ToonDisney, FitTV and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head.We get channel 5 as well. No big deal unless you want to watch the Aves or Nuggets when they play at the same time (they show Altitude 2 on 5 on those occasions)

HDNair

02-07-06, 03:39 PM

I got this response from Comcast about Olympic coverage:

Thank you for contacting us regarding your Comcast cable service.

Universal will be showing HD Olympic coverage on the INHD2 station beginning
February 10th. That is channel 665, the same one Altitude uses for the HD
broadcast of Nuggets and Avalanche games.

Thank you for choosing Comcast.

Sincerely,

Eric
Comcast Customer Support

Chiahead

02-07-06, 04:18 PM

Universal will be showing HD Olympic coverage on the INHD2 station beginning
February 10th. That is channel 665, the same one Altitude uses for the HD
broadcast of Nuggets and Avalanche games.

Anyonbe have any idea what the QAM number is for INHD2 - 665?

I am in PArker, and have the standard cable (no STB) but can pick up everything digitally and the local HDs. I don't know if INHD1 or INHD2 are available for standard cable, or do I have to upgrade to digital cable and HD for those.

roller11

02-07-06, 05:04 PM

Hmm... I don't think 'widely' is the appropriate adjective. I've been reading both Denver forums since sometime this summer, and at most I saw one report of someone picking up PBS or WB via a QAM tuner in Longmont.

What difference does it make whether one or 100 people reported this fact?
All that matters is that it has been common knowledge that PBS/WB have been
available in Longmont since Nov.22, 2005, so you're reporting 2.5 month old news.

Even though the channels in question cannot be recorded with a Comcast box, that does not eliminate the possiblity of recording them.

How so?

For those of you with Comcast boxes, the situation does suck. However, the only HD I will ever care about getting from Comcrap is local stations. I now can get all the stations I care about. If I want ESPN-HD or any other such programming, I'll just get DirecTV.

DirecTV doesn't offer ESPN-HD in hi definition.

Since HD locals is a big deal to me, and I have big issues with paying for TWO television programming services, I'll probably dump Comcrap and switch to DirecTV once they have HD locals for Denver.

I doubt that DirecTV will ever offer locals in HD since they have discovered
the down rezzing genie.
If I were you, I'd look into Dish since they supposedly still offer many
non-local HD channels
in HD format, unlike DirecTV.
If you want locals in HD, then your only choice is OTA or Comcast.

HDJello

02-07-06, 07:24 PM

Anyonbe have any idea what the QAM number is for INHD2 - 665?

I am in PArker, and have the standard cable (no STB) but can pick up everything digitally and the local HDs. I don't know if INHD1 or INHD2 are available for standard cable, or do I have to upgrade to digital cable and HD for those.
I posted this previously at the end of last year. In Boulder, INHD2 is currently at 687 MHz, which is 106.1 or 106.2. I don't know how to determine the subchannel from the Motorola box. As far as I know this channel is always scrambled, but you might as well try once the Olympics start. Or get an HD subscription going with Comcast before then, and be pretty sure it will work.

captainjy

02-07-06, 07:31 PM

Dumb question, what is all this QAM stuff? I see it often and am wondering what it is. How's it work?

bkleven

02-07-06, 08:09 PM

QAM stands for 'Quadrature Amplitude Modulation' Basically, it is the encoding scheme that cable companies have been mandated to standardize upon so a standard Cable-ready HD tuner can be built and sold. There are at least two flavors, but QAM256 is the standard, if I remember correctly.

HDNair

02-08-06, 12:11 AM

I doubt that DirecTV will ever offer locals in HD since they have discovered
the down rezzing genie.
If I were you, I'd look into Dish since they supposedly still offer many
non-local HD channels
in HD format, unlike DirecTV.
If you want locals in HD, then your only choice is OTA or Comcast.

Is there really no chance that DirectTV or Dish will offer locals? I guess I'm not alone in that I'm stuck with Comcast. Right now locals and the Avs and Nuggets games are a big priority too, so I really have only one option, but I would really like more options. I'm not thilled with Comcast's prices for the amount of HD content they offer, and it's a concern that they are limited in the amount of HD content they can offer while they still have to carry analogue signals. On the plus side they require no contracts and they've got a decent deal on an HD DVR (DirectTV requires you to make a $500 purchase after rebate and Dish requires a two year contract, if I'm not mistaken), so it's not a problem to stick with them and then jump when something better comes along. But will something better come along? Whats the progress with Dish or DirectTV picking up the Altitude feeds?

HDNair

02-08-06, 12:35 AM

BTW, has anyone been having audio problems with the free Comcast On Demand HD versions of Close Encounters and Jerry Maguire? When I realized Close Encounters was available in HD, it was one of the first things I wanted to try to watch on my television. When I first tried to view the film the audio kept dropping out, sometimes for as much as two minutes at a time. I called Comcast and they suggested I try a new reciever, and I did (I went to a Comcast payment center and swapped it out myself). The problem was still there, though I never quite got far enough to notice if it was as bad as before. I called Comcast again and they sent a technician out. This time they said I didn't have the latest generation of their HD DVR boxes, the DCT 6412 series, and offered to swap mine for "the latest and greatest" (the technicians words), the series III unit, I believe. I told them to please do that. But the problem is still there, though again I haven't noticed that it ever got as bad as it did with the first box. But it's bad enough. I did watch the Fifth Element in it's entirety, and I did notice some of the same audio glitches but it definitely wasn't as bad as it is with Close Encounters or Jerry Maguire. Has anyone else noticed this? At this point asking Comcast about it would just be a waste. I doubt they'd want to do anything but have me swap boxes again, and after the third one I doubt that's going to do much good. Close Encounters is one of my all time faves, and I'm eager to view the whole thing in HD, but I'm going to be picky about the audio (it's bad enough that the film isn't presented in it's OAR).

Couch Patato

02-08-06, 02:40 AM

Yep, It happened with me to here in lakewood when I watched C.E. I went ahead and watched it with the adio problem. I found out if I paused it & waited for a few seconds it was ok for another few minutes. Also if I reversed some, it would play up to 5 minutes before the audio would break up. Very terible way to watch it but there was nothing else I could do. Calling comcast would not have been any help. I figure it's a bandwidth problem or the PVR just can't keep up with the stream. Who knows for sure.

I didn't try F.E. I figured it would do the same & I have the Super bit DVD so it was not that big of a deal to see it in HD for me.

DP1

02-08-06, 08:32 AM

Is there really no chance that DirectTV or Dish will offer locals?

What he meant was.. in "full blown" HD. DirecTv's HD when it comes to channels that are supposed to be 1920x1080, are being sent out as 1280x1080 instead. No reason to think they wouldnt do the same with the Locals in HD.

Dish, aside from the Voom channels they offer in that same resolution DirecTv uses, does offer everything else in the proper resolution. Although one wouldnt know about the Denver Locals in particular until they're actually made available.

As far as the Close Encounters movie.. I watched it maybe 10 days ago or so on one of my 6412's and other than a momentary dropout here or there it was fine for me.

I watched J.M. quite a long time ago and dont remember any major issue with it either.

I have a question... does anyone in Denver have a 6412 without subscribing to Expanded/Standard cable? I wanted to remove that part of my sub... just go with Basic cable (13.44) and then the 9.95 Digital Classic Pkg on top of that to still get ESPN HD, the InHD's etc.. and they said I cant have (keep) a HD DVR if I do that.. only a standard HD Box. Thats lame since I never watch any of the SD channels at all really. I'd have been able to save a decent chunk of change otherwise.

I used to sub that way before the 6412's came out. When I just had the 6200 HD box. But about the same time as the 6412's came out I upgraded to Digital Silver for one reason or another (and not because it was said I have to, to get the 6412.. I just wanted to at the time).

roller11

02-08-06, 11:15 AM

Is there really no chance that DirectTV or Dish will offer locals?

All we know for sure is that currently, only Dish is offering a major network in
an enhanced format. Whether or not that is HD or ED (CBS from L.A.) I can't say
cause I don't get it. But the word is that all post Jan.31, 2006 channels
from Dish, and all channels from DirecTV are not hi def. Some rumors suggest that
in a year or so, Dish will upgrade to HD when they start transmitting in MPEG4
(currently they are MPEG2 on all their channels). In a couple weeks I'll know about
CBS from L.A. cause I just got a Dish waiver and I'll be observing that Dish
"local" on my new 1920x1080 display which will clearly show the difference
between CBS on Comcast/OTA, vs CBS on Dish if there is a difference.
That will put the rumors to rest once and for all.

I guess I'm not alone in that I'm stuck with Comcast.

I totally agree with your analysis. Comcast offers suberb PQ on their "locals",
the absolute best, even slightly better PQ than OTA. They also have a cheap
dual tuner recorder box for lease, and you can leave them anytime with no penalty. "Dual tuner" means that you get, for all practical purposes, two boxes
instead of one.
On the other hand, Comcast has by far the worst HD offering in terms of quantity.
In low bandwidth areas such as Longmont, we only get *some* of the locals and
zero 'cable channels'. In all other areas, only a token 4 'cable' channels.
The sad state of affairs is that everyone must choose between quantity and
quality.
Comcast = high quality, low quantity, and
satellite = high quantity, low quality

will something better come along?

Services like FIOS and Lightspeed are being rolled out, but it will be 10-15 years
before they have 50% penitration. So yes, something better
will come along...in 15 years.

Satellite has inherient bandwidth limitations so probably once they go
non-HD, as DirecTV did in 2005, they will probably never go back to HD.

DP1

02-08-06, 01:09 PM

All we know for sure is that currently, only Dish is offering a major network in
an enhanced format. Whether or not that is HD or ED (CBS from L.A.) I can't say
cause I don't get it. But the word is that all post Jan.31, 2006 channels
from Dish, and all channels from DirecTV are not hi def.

Where did you get that "word" in regards to Dish? Not saying it's incorrect.. just asking.

What I've read (which were measurements as of the day after they launched) is that the 2 "national" HD channels that were added on Feb. 1, Universal HD (1920x1080) and ESPN2 HD are full resolution. Course the Duece is 720p anyway so thats no surprise.

The new Voom channels arent full bandwidth but thats no surprise either because the ones they already offered werent 1920x1080.

Where it gets tricky is with the NY/LA HD Locals they added. Some of those are full resolution and some of them arent. The LA CBS station you mentioned is one that was listed at the time as being full resolution. But resolution itself isnt all that matters anyhow. It still might not look as good cable and/or OTA.

Now mind you none of this really means anything because hell, they can change any of this on a daily basis for better or worse. They may have changed since I saw the info. Not like theres any law against it.

Whats 1920x1080 today could be 1440x1080 or 1280x1080, tomorrow! ;)

DP1

02-08-06, 01:24 PM

I guess I'm not alone in that I'm stuck with Comcast. Right now locals and the Avs and Nuggets games are a big priority too, so I really have only one option, but I would really like more options. I'm not thilled with Comcast's prices for the amount of HD content they offer, and it's a concern that they are limited in the amount of HD content they can offer while they still have to carry analogue signals.

I'm not dropping Comcast but I'm re-subbing with Dish after not having them for awhile. I dont mind having more than one provider as long as I dont have to pay for stupid amount of redundant programming.

When all Dish offered beyond what Comcast offered in HD.. the 2 HDNets and TNT-HD, I didnt care that much because Comcast was new to me and I was getting unreal upfront pricing and some HD channels that Dish didnt offer. Starz HD, Cinemax HD.. the InHD's, and a cable box with Firewire output for my D-VHS machine. Then my old Dish HD receiver "blew up" and I couldnt keep just buying their HD Pack ala-carte at the time (without buying a new piece for an antiquated receiver) even if I'd have wanted to for those 3 extra channels, I just cancelled it.

Now though the list of things they offer that Comcast doesnt is getting pretty large. The 2 HDNets, TNT, ESPN2, Universal, all the Voom channels (crippled as they may be) and perhaps some new additions like HGTV/Food HD pretty "soon" (at least sooner than Comcast will) etc.

I think just like in the case of Longmont.. although not to as severe a degree, the Denver system is up against a brick wall for the time being too (or we'd already have TNT for example like other markets do).

Thats why I made the post above looking to slash some of my channels/cost from Comcast. To offset the cost of the Dish programming. But still have access to the HD channels/programming Comcast has that Dish doesnt yet. And since one can get all the HD channels from Dish (aside from the premiums like HBO) for 35.00 (without an SD base package), or 50.00 if you want/need some of the standard SD channels too, I consider running both sytems "doable and desireable" again.

I just need to trim Comcast by about $30 a month and I'll be good. I'm sure I can do it one way or the other. Threaten to bail and they'll prolly cut me some slack with some sort of promo. For that matter I could just give back one of my 2 6412's since they're both in the same room anyway and I think that alone would slash like 16.85 from what I'm paying now.

I wont mind paying an extra $5-15 compared to what I'm paying now if need be for all the new/extra HD channels I'll have access to. Even if they aint all pure as the driven snow... heh.

captainjy

02-08-06, 02:27 PM

The buzz lately has been UniversalHD coming to Comcast. It seems that it's popping up in many cities, but haven't heard anything about Denver. Anyone hear anything about it?

HDNair

02-08-06, 03:30 PM

The buzz lately has been UniversalHD coming to Comcast. It seems that it's popping up in many cities, but haven't heard anything about Denver. Anyone hear anything about it?

I called and asked them about this because Battlestar Galactica airs on that channel (basically the only non HD program I make a point about watching). The customer service guy put me on hold and said he was going to ask a supervisor about it, and he came back and said Comcast was actively trying to acquire that channel. I don't put much stock in that though. They apparently are going to air the Universal HD Olympic events on INHD2... if anything that means they've opened a line of communication. I haven't heard great things about the content of the channel though.

roller11

02-08-06, 03:54 PM

Where did you get that "word" in regards to Dish? Not saying it's incorrect.. just asking.

Great question.
Mostly from reading posts in AVSforum. Thing is, the posters will never say where they get their info, so all this is merely rumor.
However, I'm assuming it is true cause:
1. When I call Dish and ask them about their res, they don't deny that
the new channels will be in non-HD. If Dish is encoding their channels
in 1920x1080 they'd be shouting it from the rooftops, not keeping it
a secret as they are doing. Their "no comment" response is telling.
2. The same marketing/bandwidth/economic factors that influenced DirecTV to go
non-HD apply to Dish. So, I figure that either Dish is already non-HD,
or will be soon. Since Dish benefits by downrezzing to non-HD, it is naive to
think that they will continue to offer HD encoding, especially since their
main competitor has already gone to non-HD.

The new Voom channels arent full bandwidth but thats no surprise either because the ones they already offered werent 1920x1080.

I've heard conflicting reports as to the res of pre-feb Voom channels, some
say HD, some say non-HD. Since I watched Voom for 5 months at 1920x1080
in 2004, I think I'll know if they have degraded down to non-HD, especially
judging on my 1920x1080 LCOS TV.

Now mind you none of this really means anything because hell, they can change any of this on a daily basis for better or worse. They may have changed since I saw the info. Not like theres any law against it.

Whats 1920x1080 today could be 1440x1080 or 1280x1080, tomorrow! ;)

This is all good info. Some say that the pre-Feb.1, 2006 Voom channels are
HD (aka 1920x1080). If all post Feb. 2006 are non-HD as you say, then I will
know immediately and not watch them (the attraction of Voom to me is
non-existant if they aren't HD). I should know in a week or two and I'll report
on all Dish channels, putting all rumors to rest. If all Dish channels, including
DiscoveryHD, HD net, Voom are non-HD, then I'll cancel the service immediately
under the 72 hour 'buyers remorse' law and get a full refund.

But as you say, even if sats are HD today, they could well be non-HD tomorrow
since they have financial incentive to degrade their PQ.

By far my priority is the major networks (locals). Since I get all majors
OTA here in Longmont, I need not be concerned as to whether or not they
will be HD when they are launched by Dish in April (I'm assuming they won't
be HD). Therefore, if at least some of the Dish channels are in HD, I'll ditch
Comcast and go with Dish, and get the locals OTA. And who knows, maybe
the rumors will turn out to be true and Dish will go to HD locals in 2007. That would be nice, but not essential.

A bigger question is should I lease the 622 box from Dish, or buy?
Leasing is cheaper initially, but one builds no
equity and is out $300.00 up front. If I buy, I'm out about $650, but I can always
sell on Ebay at near full price later on if I ditch Dish cause something better
came along later. it all comes down to whether I think Dish will be tops for,
say, 18 months, or will Comcast beat them sometime in 2007. My gut tells
me that nobody will equal Dish in the next 18 months, especially in low bandwidth
Longmont, so I'll probably lease.

cjh404

02-08-06, 04:31 PM

All we know for sure is that currently, only Dish is offering a major network in an enhanced format. Whether or not that is HD or ED (CBS from L.A.) I can't saycause I don't get it. But the word is that all post Jan.31, 2006 channels from Dish, and all channels from DirecTV are not hi def. Some rumors suggest thatin a year or so, Dish will upgrade to HD when they start transmitting in MPEG4(currently they are MPEG2 on all their channels). In a couple weeks I'll know aboutCBS from L.A. cause I just got a Dish waiver and I'll be observing that Dish "local" on my new 1920x1080 display which will clearly show the difference
between CBS on Comcast/OTA, vs CBS on Dish if there is a difference.
That will put the rumors to rest once and for all.

Since you used the word enhanced I would say Directv has way more lil HD channels than Dish. directv has 12 markets where dish has 2? Directv is also going to mpeg4 does that mean they are going back to full hd? You don't really know cause anything could happen.

Services like FIOS and Lightspeed are being rolled out, but it will be 10-15 yearsbefore they have 50% penitration. So yes, something better
will come along...in 15 years.

Satellite has inherient bandwidth limitations so probably once they go
non-HD, as DirecTV did in 2005, they will probably never go back to HD.

And we are in qwest land so that isn't much help.

All in all we can only guess on what D* and E* are going to do in the future. If D* doesn't go back to HD i think it will catch up to them as HD gets more popular. For you to say that they won't is kinda ridiculous.

captainjy

02-08-06, 04:33 PM

I called and asked them about this because Battlestar Galactica airs on that channel (basically the only non HD program I make a point about watching). The customer service guy put me on hold and said he was going to ask a supervisor about it, and he came back and said Comcast was actively trying to acquire that channel. I don't put much stock in that though. They apparently are going to air the Universal HD Olympic events on INHD2... if anything that means they've opened a line of communication. I haven't heard great things about the content of the channel though.

I am in the same boat. This is about the only non-HD show that I watch. Apparently Denver doesn't have enough bandwidth to warrant its own channel. I have been hearing that a lot of other cities started getting it- Salt Lake, New Jersey, Nashville, etc. I was really hoping that this would happen in Denver. There are things happening with D* and E*. Comcast seems to be sitting idle while the competition is adding new programming, most likely because of their bandwidth issues? Anyhow, thanks for the reply. Hopefully UHD finally makes it. If not, I think we are going to consider Dish Network in the spring.

cjh404

02-08-06, 04:36 PM

I called and asked them about this because Battlestar Galactica airs on that channel (basically the only non HD program I make a point about watching). The customer service guy put me on hold and said he was going to ask a supervisor about it, and he came back and said Comcast was actively trying to acquire that channel. I don't put much stock in that though. They apparently are going to air the Universal HD Olympic events on INHD2... if anything that means they've opened a line of communication. I haven't heard great things about the content of the channel though.

It looks like here in Denver they are just going to put it on INHD2 and then pull it after the olympics. Other markets are getting it on a new channel. So it looks like it will stay in markets with the bandwidth and get dropped, then possibly re added at a future date, in markets like ours.

captainjy

02-08-06, 05:08 PM

Great question.
Mostly from reading posts in AVSforum. Thing is, the posters will never say where they get their info, so all this is merely rumor.
However, I'm assuming it is true cause:
1. When I call Dish and ask them about their res, they don't deny that
the new channels will be in non-HD. If Dish is encoding their channels
in 1920x1080 they'd be shouting it from the rooftops, not keeping it
a secret as they are doing. Their "no comment" response is telling.
2. The same marketing/bandwidth/economic factors that influenced DirecTV to go
non-HD apply to Dish. So, I figure that either Dish is already non-HD,
or will be soon. Since Dish benefits by downrezzing to non-HD, it is naive to
think that they will continue to offer HD encoding, especially since their
main competitor has already gone to non-HD.

I've heard conflicting reports as to the res of pre-feb Voom channels, some
say HD, some say non-HD. Since I watched Voom for 5 months at 1920x1080
in 2004, I think I'll know if they have degraded down to non-HD, especially
judging on my 1920x1080 LCOS TV.

This is all good info. Some say that the pre-Feb.1, 2006 Voom channels are
HD (aka 1920x1080). If all post Feb. 2006 are non-HD as you say, then I will
know immediately and not watch them (the attraction of Voom to me is
non-existant if they aren't HD). I should know in a week or two and I'll report
on all Dish channels, putting all rumors to rest. If all Dish channels, including
DiscoveryHD, HD net, Voom are non-HD, then I'll cancel the service immediately
under the 72 hour 'buyers remorse' law and get a full refund.

But as you say, even if sats are HD today, they could well be non-HD tomorrow
since they have financial incentive to degrade their PQ.

By far my priority is the major networks (locals). Since I get all majors
OTA here in Longmont, I need not be concerned as to whether or not they
will be HD when they are launched by Dish in April (I'm assuming they won't
be HD). Therefore, if at least some of the Dish channels are in HD, I'll ditch
Comcast and go with Dish, and get the locals OTA. And who knows, maybe
the rumors will turn out to be true and Dish will go to HD locals in 2007. That would be nice, but not essential.

A bigger question is should I lease the 622 box from Dish, or buy?
Leasing is cheaper initially, but one builds no
equity and is out $300.00 up front. If I buy, I'm out about $650, but I can always
sell on Ebay at near full price later on if I ditch Dish cause something better
came along later. it all comes down to whether I think Dish will be tops for,
say, 18 months, or will Comcast beat them sometime in 2007. My gut tells
me that nobody will equal Dish in the next 18 months, especially in low bandwidth
Longmont, so I'll probably lease.

As I have stated many times here, I am not a professional- far from it. Like most of you, I just want to have the best quality experience when watching movies/TV. You have to believe that there are some pretty hefty legal issues involved with D* and E* pushing "HD-Lite" to their customers especially if they are advertising HD. My thinking is that there would be some serious repercussions for these satellite companies if it were proven that they were broadcasting "HD-Lite".

DP1

02-08-06, 06:21 PM

All in all we can only guess on what D* and E* are going to do in the future. If D* doesn't go back to HD i think it will catch up to them as HD gets more popular. For you to say that they won't is kinda ridiculous.

Yeah it's hard to say. Although actually it's pretty easy to make the argument they wont go back unless theres massive pressure from consumers, or somewhere, to do so. The problem is, I'm not so sure there will be.

For one thing, it's not like anything close to the masses have already bought in so they dont have anything to compare it to once they do. For all they know, thats just what it's supposed to look like. Obviously even "HD Lite" looks far better than the overly compressed 4x3 signal of the same channels on the SD side.

For another, a lot of "HD" displays cant resolve all the detail of full HD anyway.

For a third, even those that can arent always setup in a configuration where it even "matters" because the viewing distance is too far to really be able to appreciate all the extra detail. If I glance over at my old 13" portable from 15' away when feeding it a downconverted (480i) HD signal it looks great! ;) Might as well be full blown HD.. how would I know? Same could probably be said, by the less than a/v freaks, watching a 42" HD display from that distance being fed HD Lite.

Unless the people revolt theres no reason to assume it'll change. We even saw that in the SD world where theres no question the PQ could've always been better than it was. But for whatever reasons, like wanting a 200 channel universe, people just seemed to settle for what they got because they thought it was either good enough, or better than whatever they were seeing before if they had switched providers.

Theres no shortage of guys over in the HD programming forum that havent bailed on D* even though they know whats going on. Either it's because they dont truly care or because they'll hold on to the premise that it'll get better. But they're probably the ones that always held out hope the SD channels would get better too before HD finally came into play and gave them a whole new thing to wonder about.

HDNair

02-08-06, 07:09 PM

I am in the same boat. This is about the only non-HD show that I watch. Apparently Denver doesn't have enough bandwidth to warrant its own channel. I have been hearing that a lot of other cities started getting it- Salt Lake, New Jersey, Nashville, etc. I was really hoping that this would happen in Denver. There are things happening with D* and E*. Comcast seems to be sitting idle while the competition is adding new programming, most likely because of their bandwidth issues? Anyhow, thanks for the reply. Hopefully UHD finally makes it. If not, I think we are going to consider Dish Network in the spring.

I don't like to hear that Comcast in the Denver market is sitting idle. I guess the bottom line is they can afford to because they offer the least complicated access to local HD channels and because they're the only provider in town to offer the Altitude feeds in HD (other than Champion Broadband, which has a limited service area).

This is the prewritten response you get if you email Comcast asking about them adding more HD content:

Comcast is committed to deploying HDTV service. We are working to provide as
many high definition channel broadcasters as possible. Here are some of the
factors involved with expanding our high definition lineup:

-the negotiation and contract process required to obtain the rights to carry a
specific high definition broadcast, such as TNT-HD and HD-Net.

-the increased bandwidth resources which are required

-the relatively low number of subscribers (currently only a small minority of
customers have high definition compatible television sets)

We will continue to explore additional HD programming opportunities as more
content providers make plans to offer their programming in HD format.

We appreciate the fact that you took the time to let us know what is important
to you. We hope to expand our high definition channel lineup as fast as we can.
Unfortunately we are unable to provide specific details regarding the launch of
new channels at this time, please keep an eye on your monthly billing statement
as the announcement of any channel additions will appear on those statements.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any more questions.

Thank you for choosing Comcast.

It doesn't sound very comforting. One one hand they say they are committed to deploying HD service, but then they list all the reasons why they probably won't or can't. I love HD, just sucks that the options are so limited.

captainjy

02-08-06, 07:32 PM

I don't like to hear that Comcast in the Denver market is sitting idle. I guess the bottom line is they can afford to because they offer the least complicated access to local HD channels and because they're the only provider in town to offer the Altitude feeds in HD (other than Champion Broadband, which has a limited service area).

This is the prewritten response you get if you email Comcast asking about them adding more HD content:

It doesn't sound very comforting. One one hand they say they are committed to deploying HD service, but then they list all the reasons why they probably won't or can't. I love HD, just sucks that the options are so limited.

What's very frustrating is reading on the HD Programming forum that UHD is popping up everywhere today. On top of that, there still isn't any communication from Comcast on new programming or services. I never get any email from Comcast.

Then there's the other side- you hear that D* is doing HD-Lite and who knows what Dish is doing. Yeah, it isn't not very comforting. Based on the quality that we are getting at our house, it's 50-50. I love them, but I hate them. When it's working good, it's sweet, but when it's laggy and pixelated, it's horrible. Anyhow, good luck to you.

roller11

02-08-06, 07:49 PM

Yeah it's hard to say. Although actually it's pretty easy to make the argument they wont go back unless theres massive pressure from consumers, or somewhere, to do so. The problem is, I'm not so sure there will be.

For one thing, it's not like anything close to the masses have already bought in so they dont have anything to compare it to once they do. For all they know, thats just what it's supposed to look like. Obviously even "HD Lite" looks far better than the overly compressed 4x3 signal of the same channels on the SD side.

For another, a lot of "HD" displays cant resolve all the detail of full HD anyway.

For a third, even those that can arent always setup in a configuration where it even "matters" because the viewing distance is too far to really be able to appreciate all the extra detail. If I glance over at my old 13" portable from 15' away when feeding it a downconverted (480i) HD signal it looks great! ;) Might as well be full blown HD.. how would I know? Same could probably be said, by the less than a/v freaks, watching a 42" HD display from that distance being fed HD Lite.

Yes, yes, and yes...I could not agree more on all points.

Unless the people revolt theres no reason to assume it'll change. We even saw that in the SD world where theres no question the PQ could've always been better than it was. But for whatever reasons, like wanting a 200 channel universe, people just seemed to settle for what they got because they thought it was either good enough, or better than whatever they were seeing before if they had switched providers.

I figure maybe .3 % of all viewers are even aware that there is a inverse correlation
between PQ and number of channels offered in HD, that's 3 out of every thousand
people. To the average person, if a provider calls it's offering HD, they don't question it, it must be HD. And that HD is exactly the same as cable or OTA HD.
The number of people that will make a stink over the difference between
what DirecTV offers (ED at best) vs HD is so tiny, it isn't hurting sales, so it's not worth noting. Clearly,
continue to false advertize HD and deliver ED is best for the Satellite guys.
BTW, for those who never saw Vooms offerings in 2004, Voom made a huge deal
over the fact that they were delivering 1920x1080 HD, and gave this as the
main reason for subscribing. They had an entire channel devoted to promoting the
this fact. I wish that all the providers, Cable Cos and Sats alike who are actually
doing 1920x1080 would do the same, it would raise public awareness of the issue
and this would pressure the non-HD providers, like DirecTV, to upgrade to HD.

Theres no shortage of guys over in the HD programming forum that havent bailed on D* even though they know whats going on. Either it's because they dont truly care or because they'll hold on to the premise that it'll get better.

informed D* people are not switching because:
1. Only D* has NFL Sunday ticket
2. Many have made investments in HD recorders that aren't compatible
with non-D* service.
3. Many are locked into long term contracts with D* and don't want to pay the
penalty for ditching D*.

As I see it, here's the reason's we can hope that Sat will eventually
go back to HD:
1. Ironically, as Sat's degrade their resolution, televisions are doing the
opposite, they are migrating from lo res 1280x720 to hi res 1920x1080.
The television folks can be an ally in raising the public consciousness.
2. Blu Ray... the US is so DVD centric, it will be a big deal when 1920x1080
DVD's become commonplace. This too will raise awareness.
3. The analog shutoff date. That should accelerate the decline of lo res
TV sets which can only be beneficial to the cause.

It's not so much that people like poor PQ, they just don't know any better.
When people in mass are aware that their TV's have 1920x1080 panels,
and that some providers are broadcasting sub standard 1280x1080, then they
will start punishing the poor quality company's and rewarding the 1920x1080 folks. That's when we will see a change. When will that be? I'd say
about eight years from now.

David_Levin

02-08-06, 08:07 PM

I may have missed it in the thread, but Denver HD locals are coming from both Dish and Direct TV. Dish is claiming 1st quarter this year. DirectTV is more like end of year.

Dish must be pushing Denver (market 18), because they are based here. DirectTV's new phased-array spot beam satellites (Spaceway -> 4 birds), will eventually give them a huge amount of local bandwidth (1500 channels - WAY more then Dish). (Only the 1st 2 are launched).

For both Direct and Dish you'll need the new mpeg4 box. Neither has the new PVR out yet, but Dish is a bit ahead here. Probably mid-march for Dish. Both services have the non-pvr out now.

Two downsides with sat vs cable.

1) $$$ outlay. Getting the PVR will set up back $299 and you're still leasing the box.

2) Both services are recompressing HD signals so there is some loss of picture quality.

My big problem with Comcast-Denver is the 12 hour PVR. I'll never get by on that. The Dish and Direct boxes double that to 25 hours. Additionally, the new Dish box is going to support archiving to external USB 2 hard drives.

Also, there's lot's of great sat info at:
www.dbstalk.com (really an avs spin-off)
and www.satelliteguys.us

Much to read on the pro's and cons. You really need to do the research and compare the programming that YOU want (cable is currently a VERY attractive option - maybe cheaper if you also have internet).

If you decide on Dish, have a friend give you a referral. Cost you nothing, and they get a kickback. Or, I'd (of course), be happy to send you a referral:

dlevin31262-tmpreq@yahoo.com

PS to HDnair - you could also consider trying to get locals over the air. Read up here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7084191

David_Levin

02-08-06, 08:20 PM

roller11

02-08-06, 08:30 PM

My big problem with Comcast-Denver is the 12 hour PVR. I'll never get by on that. The Dish and Direct boxes double that to 25 hours.

I'll take 12 hours of Comcast HD over 1000 hours of Satellite non-HD anyday.

DP1

02-08-06, 08:30 PM

As I see it, here's the reason's we can hope that Sat will eventually go back to HD:

1. Ironically, as Sat's degrade their resolution, televisions are doing the
opposite, they are migrating from lo res 1280x720 to hi res 1920x1080.
The television folks can be an ally in raising the public consciousness.
2. Blu Ray... the US is so DVD centric, it will be a big deal when 1920x1080
DVD's become commonplace. This too will raise awareness.
3. The analog shutoff date. That should accelerate the decline of lo res
TV sets which can only be beneficial to the cause.

It's not so much that people like poor PQ, they just don't know any better.
When people in mass are aware that their TV's have 1920x1080 panels,
and that some providers are broadcasting sub standard 1280x1080, then they
will start punishing the poor quality company's and rewarding the 1920x1080 folks. That's when we will see a change. When will that be? I'd say
about eight years from now.

I hope you're right. Again time will tell.

All I can do for now is equate it to the way the SD world was handled by DBS and cable. The DVD tie in you mention makes some sense.. but there again, most everybody and their brother has a DVD player by now and the PQ is always better than what you'd get on a SD movie channel from DBS/cable yet I dont know that those entities feel compelled to up the PQ on any of thier channels because of it.

Which reminds me of the old joke about Dish.

Like 3 or 4 years ago they truly did have a DBS receiver/DVD Player combo on the table. Even previewed it on a Charlie Chat one time. I was tuned in myself that night.

But then it never made it to market afterall. The joke goes that the reason for that was they wised up and realized that once people had them in thier homes and quickly switched from watching a DVD back to DBS they'd have had to assume the box was defective and wanted a replacement because the DBS channels always looked so bad comparatively! :D

It's funny but I bet that reasoning had some truth to it.

HDNair

02-08-06, 09:40 PM

PS to HDnair - you could also consider trying to get locals over the air. Read up here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7084191

Thanks. I'm aware that it's possible to get HD signals OTA for locals, but that may not be an option for me because if I go with a satellite service, my apartment complex only allows a single dish per apartment. Plus, my television doesn't have a built in tuner. Add that to the other issues I mentioned... I want a DVR without having to pay a lot of money up front and I want the Altitude HD feeds... I'm still stuck with Comcast. Just got to hope that they add more content.

David_Levin

02-09-06, 12:09 AM

Plus, my television doesn't have a built in tuner.

It doesn't help with your other concerns, but all the current Sat HD boxes have built-in OTA tuners.

Apartments can be tuff anyway since it's harder to get line of site. And, your right, Comcast is the only solution for Altitude HD.

Friendly with any of your neighbors? Perhaps you could share an antenna.

In any case, there's really nothing wrong with sticking with cable, but it's good to know all your options.

dr_mal

02-09-06, 12:10 PM

My big problem with Comcast-Denver is the 12 hour PVR. I'll never get by on that. The Dish and Direct boxes double that to 25 hours. Additionally, the new Dish box is going to support archiving to external USB 2 hard drives.
The new CableCard TiVo (if/when it comes out in the second half of this year) will have 25 (+?) hour capacity and an external SATA port for easy DIY expansion. Of course, you'll lose the ability to get PPV or VOD from Comcast, and even though they demoed the box at CES last month, the box still might not show up on time.

DP1

02-09-06, 08:41 PM

Universal HD programming is now being shown on the InHD2 channel for anyone keeping score at home.

HDNair

02-09-06, 10:54 PM

Universal HD programming is now being shown on the InHD2 channel for anyone keeping score at home.

Un-f**king-believable. There was one last thing I wanted out of INHD2. That is a clean recording of Baraka. After that I would have been throroughly undisturbed by seeing it go away. I did record the first recent airing, a couple of days ago, but there were at least four obnoxious glitches recorded. The movie was supposed to air twice more over the next few days, and I was pretty confident I could get at least one very clean recording of it. Then just a couple of hours before it's supposed to air again, they pull the damn channel. There aren't even any freekin Olympic games on tonight. Just one more night of INHD2 and I'd be home free. I don't expect many people to understand how pissed off this makes me.

Anyway, I just got off the phone with a Comcast CSR. For the record, Universal HD is replacing INHD2 for the length of the Olympics. After that, back to INHD2. There better be some freekin' bomb ass HD Olympic hockey is all I'm sayin'.

BobLikesHDTV

02-10-06, 01:15 AM

Universal HD on channel 665

As most of you know, as of tonight we have Universal HD in Denver on the INHD2 frequency. Don't know if this is for the time being for the Olympics or not.

Other than the Olympics, Monk and Battlestar Gallactica (the new one, not the old), it's pretty poor programming. Most programs are old Universal Studios shows pre-1985. They must have made special transfers of the shows from 16mm to wide screen. Knightrider. LOL. Although I did like "The Enforcer" with Edward Woodward (a CBS show) and Quantum Leap.

Even so, it's better than 90% of what we get on INHD. The movies are absolutely hideous.

Maybe they'll show "Land of the Giants" or "Night Gallery". I'll never forget the "Night Gallery" directed by Steven Spielberg with the evil marionette puppet.

I suppose they could also show "Sparticus", being a Universal film? Now that I think about it, they have a heck of a film library stretching back to the 1920s, including all of Hitchcock's catalog, Dracula, Frankenstein, King Kong. I'd LOVE to see "North by Northwest" and "The Birds" in High Def. And "The Blues Brothers".

BobLikesHDTV

02-10-06, 01:19 AM

Un-f**king-believable. There was one last thing I wanted out of INHD2. That is a clean recording of Baraka. After that I would have been throroughly undisturbed by seeing it go away. I did record the first recent airing, a couple of days ago, but there were at least four obnoxious glitches recorded. The movie was supposed to air twice more over the next few days, and I was pretty confident I could get at least one very clean recording of it. Then just a couple of hours before it's supposed to air again, they pull the damn channel. There aren't even any freekin Olympic games on tonight. Just one more night of INHD2 and I'd be home free. I don't expect many people to understand how pissed off this makes me.

Anyway, I just got off the phone with a Comcast CSR. For the record, Universal HD is replacing INHD2 for the length of the Olympics. After that, back to INHD2. There better be some freekin' bomb ass HD Olympic hockey is all I'm sayin'.

I feel your pain for the one film. It's too bad they decided to show the Sinatra version of "Oceans 11" about 30 times in three weeks and, of all pieces of garbage, Russ Meyer's "Beneath the Valley of the Dolls" (written by none other than Roger Ebert).

INHD is the greatest waste of bandswidth imaginable, and we pay the equivalent of a dollar per channel per month for it. Last week they showed a high school basketball game from Kansas on INHD 1. Today it was the replay of a women's indoor volleyball game from early 2005. Unforgivable. Comcast can give us a better channel lineup than that by simply showing a test pattern.

HDJello

02-10-06, 09:39 AM

I feel your pain for the one film. It's too bad they decided to show the Sinatra version of "Oceans 11" about 30 times in three weeks and, of all pieces of garbage, Russ Meyer's "Beneath the Valley of the Dolls" (written by none other than Roger Ebert).

INHD is the greatest waste of bandswidth imaginable, and we pay the equivalent of a dollar per channel per month for it. Last week they showed a high school basketball game from Kansas on INHD 1. Today it was the replay of a women's indoor volleyball game from early 2005. Unforgivable. Comcast can give us a better channel lineup than that by simply showing a test pattern.
I'm afraid I don't understand the math here. If you pay $5 to rent the set top box, then should you not amortize this over all of the HD channels? So there are 6 OTA channels, 4 premium channels, and 4 national HD channels (Discovery HD, ESPN-HD, and INHD[12]).

I think Comcast is in the ownership picture for INHD[12] so I wouldn't expect them to go away from the lineup, even though many of us would prefer TNT-HD, UHD, MHD, ESPN2-HD, NG-HD, and probably anything else that came out.

HDNair

02-10-06, 08:13 PM

The guide is still showing the programming information for INHD2. Same for everyone else? They better fix that so I can record the hockey games easily.

gakon

02-11-06, 12:11 AM

Did anyone watching the Olympics see the picture freeze at about 8:40 tonight? I wasn't watching at that time, but came back to see a woman walking with a folded Italian flag, and the picture didn't change. The tuner was playing live, but I was also recording, and got the same thing when I played back the recording.

BTW, a lot is in widescreen, but much of it does not look like HD. The Athens opening ceremonies looked a lot better.

roller11

02-11-06, 01:11 PM

BTW, a lot is in widescreen, but much of it does not look like HD. The Athens opening ceremonies looked a lot better.

Not only was much of the ceremonies in lo def as you say, but
they claimed that
all the venues, indoor and out would be in HD. In fact virtually all of the
outdoor sports will be in lo def, Ski jumping being the sole exception.
They showed a lot of skiing and .5 pipe last night, and it was
obviously low def. Maybe since it was widescreen they thought they
could get away with telling folks it was HD.

captainjy

02-11-06, 06:37 PM

roller11

02-11-06, 10:45 PM

Tonight's (Sat.) Olympic program was totally screwed up, almost the whole thing in hideous lo def.
Was this a KUSA foulup, or NBC?

gakon

02-11-06, 10:54 PM

NBC. Go to the programming thread and find out all about it. It will be hard to refrain from giving the KUSA folks a little bit of abuse on Tuesday night, even if it isn't their fault.

BobLikesHDTV

02-12-06, 10:57 AM

I'm afraid I don't understand the math here. If you pay $5 to rent the set top box, then should you not amortize this over all of the HD channels? So there are 6 OTA channels, 4 premium channels, and 4 national HD channels (Discovery HD, ESPN-HD, and INHD[12]).

I think Comcast is in the ownership picture for INHD[12] so I wouldn't expect them to go away from the lineup, even though many of us would prefer TNT-HD, UHD, MHD, ESPN2-HD, NG-HD, and probably anything else that came out.

I don't know about you, but they charge me $9.95/month for the DVR box plus $5.00/month for HDTV.

Thats $14.95.

The channels I have are:

650 & 651 - Showtime and HBO, which also adds a premium fee
652 - KMGH
653 - KUSA
654 - KCNC
655 - KDVR
656 - KWGN
658 - KRMA (PBS) [another wasted channel, pretty much showing the same stuff for years -- the Mary Cassat program first appeared in 2001]
663 - Discovery HD Theater
664 - iN DEMAND1 HD
665 - iN DEMAND2 HD
668 - ESPN HD

I don't get Stars or Cinemax, so they're not included in my $14.95.

So that's $14.95/month divided by 12 channels = $1.25 per. If I go to $5.00/month for the box as you suggest plus the $5 for the HDTV, that's 83 cents/month for each channel.

Either way it's expensive for garbage, if you ask me. And if ComCrash owns INHD, then they should do a much better job of programming it for a national audience. They are almost to the point of programming public domain films. And considering their profits were down 69% in the last quarter, maybe they should consider dumping the production side of things and simply pay for existing content provided by others. No doubt cheaper.

HDNair

02-12-06, 11:16 AM

I don't know about you, but they charge me $9.95/month for the DVR box plus $5.00/month for HDTV.

Thats $14.95.

Hmmm.... I only have to pay $9.95 for the DVR box. If I opted out of the DVR option I'd have to pay the $5.00 for an HD box. They may have changed their deal since you got on, I'd call them and ask if you can get out of the $5.00 a month.

DP1

02-12-06, 12:14 PM

Yeah I dont think Bob should be paying the extra 5.00 either. If I remember correctly they had it on my bill that way too when I first switched to the DVR. After calling them on it, they removed the extra 5.00 from the bill.

Where I'm getting stung is by having 2 DVR's (especially since they're just in the same room anyway). Not only is it an extra 9.95 for the DVR but then another 6.95 for having a second box in general. Course having that second box always been my own call for just more storage capacity. It was more of a luxury than a necessity.

I've decided to return it though and save the 17.00 a month. I can just go back to dumping stuff to my D-VHS machine instead. Especially like movies where if they just sit around on the drive they take up too much space and theres not as much cause for DVR functions like 30 sec skip on those (or other non commercial interrupted programming).

I'll just keep using the one DVR for the Network HD I watch where a person *is* continually needing to zap commercials.

roller11

02-12-06, 01:54 PM

NBC. Go to the programming thread and find out all about it. It will be hard to refrain from giving the KUSA folks a little bit of abuse on Tuesday night, even if it isn't their fault.

Since Aug. 2003, I've observed that in the Denver area, only
NBC constantly degrades primetime shows to lo def for no apparent
reason. This happens to about 1/3 of NBC HD progs, in whole or part.
I've always wondered if it is a NBC screwup, or KUSA. Recently
I've been polling other cities, and got my answer.
Seattle, Atlanta, Dallas all report no such problems like we
have in Denver with NBC primetime. So it's KUSA ruining
Surface, ER, Law and Order etc, not NBC.

What's special about Tues. night?

HDJello

02-12-06, 02:37 PM

What's special about Tues. night?
KUSA is hosting a Lake Cedar Group Open House at their studios. This is by invitation to some people who signed the petitition at www.hdtvcolorado.com (I did not get an invitiation myself). There was a little discussion of it on the OTA thread, but the most recent posts are mostly about a possible HDnet studio tour in April, so you might have to page back a bit to find it

.

HDJello

02-12-06, 02:46 PM

I don't know about you, but they charge me $9.95/month for the DVR box plus $5.00/month for HDTV.

Thats $14.95.

You should not have to pay the $9.95 DVR charge plus $5.00 for HD; the DVR includes HD. If you have a second HDTV, they charge another $5.00 for that.
So that's $14.95/month divided by 12 channels = $1.25 per. If I go to $5.00/month for the box as you suggest plus the $5 for the HDTV, that's 83 cents/month for each channel.

If you lose the DVR you should pay $5/month only for HDV and the box, so you are down to <42 cents/month. And if you have the DVR, then you have to decide what portion of the $10 is for DVR vs. what portion is for HD. I would suggest $5/HD is the right number, though if you have the DVR and no HDTV, you still have to pay $9.95.

BobLikesHDTV

02-13-06, 11:40 AM

You should not have to pay the $9.95 DVR charge plus $5.00 for HD; the DVR includes HD. If you have a second HDTV, they charge another $5.00 for that.

If you lose the DVR you should pay $5/month only for HDV and the box, so you are down to <42 cents/month. And if you have the DVR, then you have to decide what portion of the $10 is for DVR vs. what portion is for HD. I would suggest $5/HD is the right number, though if you have the DVR and no HDTV, you still have to pay $9.95.

Let's not get lost in the math.

My argument is they are wasting bandswidth and its costing you and me money.

My argument is INHD is wasteful, garbage programming likely stuck into the channel lineup to give subscribers the appearance of an abundance of HD channels when there were not that many available.

My argument is, now that there is an overabundance of HD channels, Comcast should scrap these losers and do a better job of filling out the HD channel lineup.

If they want to use 665 (the INHD2 frequency) as a catch-all for Altitude-HD, OLN-HD, NFL-HD, and special HD broadcasts, I have no problem with that. It's probably a good use of the frequency.

But to have two channels showing things like non-tournament high school basketball games from Kansas, "classic" women's volleyball games from early 2005, old NBA games, and really old Russ Meyers T & A movies from the 60s is a waste of bandswidth on a system that has so little it had to scrap INHD2 for a few weeks just to show us the Olympics coverage from Universal HD. If they really think there is a demand for INHD's stuff, then they should put it on OnDemand and let people access it that way. I think this is niche programming at best and not of interest to a general audience.

How many here would rather have TNT-HD instead of INHD1 or 2 (not including Altitude HD, which is not provided by INHD, but which is broadcast on 665 locally by Comcast)?

We've had Universal HD for the last few days. Although it is riddled with 1970s and 80s TV programs, some good and some bad, it does offer a bit more variety, I think. Is this better than even the best programming you've seen on INHD? Frankly I've only seen three programs worth their salt on INHD, and they were music shows: Music 101: Al Green, the Norah Jones special, and the Peter Gabriel concert. But it looks like they've stopped producing or buying new music programs. How many times can they show "The Who on the Isle of Wight"?

Who here wouldn't enjoy having ESPN2-HD come basketball tournament time, or for Major League Baseball or college baseball and football when it comes around again?

How about the new FOX HD channel, set to debut this year? They will supposedly simulcast sports and regular entertainment programming from Fox, FX, Speed, and their other network channels (24, The Shield, Rescue Me)?

The HD world is about to explode with new channels and programming that sounds pretty good and diverse, and not like the clothes dryer circulating the same programs around and around and around.

Why for goodness sake should we have to live with INHD?

For a company that's bleeding red ink, like Comcast, I'd think they'd begin to look at unloading parts of the business that are costing them money. The expense of broadcasting a high school basketball game from Kansas to the nation, and then repeating it about 10 times over the next two weeks, is hard to justify. By programming such expensive garbage (it ain't cheap to send the production crew there, let alone renting the satellite uplink time) CEO Brian Roberts is shirking his responsibility to shareholders, at the very least, and to subscribers at the most.

If Comcast is the owner of INHD, they should either take programming these two channels seriously or scrap them and move new channels into the lineup that better serve their customers' interest. Heck, I'd be willing to pay an extra $2.00/month for something better.

HDJello

02-13-06, 11:58 AM

If Comcast is the owner of INHD, they should either take programming these two channels seriously or scrap them and move new channels into the lineup that better serve their customers' interest. Heck, I'd be willing to pay an extra $2.00/month for something better.
I'm not trying to be a Comcast advocate here. I agree that much of what is on these channels is not appealing to me, and the programming is repeated early and often. I would much rather have ESPN2, TNT-HD, NG-HD, and I agree there will be more coming that will likely be worthwhile.

INHD and INHD2 are owned and operated by iN DEMAND Networks--the company shareholders are Comcast iN DEMAND Holdings, Inc., Cox Communications Holdings, Inc., and Time Warner Entertainment - Advance/Newhouse Partnership. So Comcast is not the sole owner here. I think when it was created there was very little HD material available. Maybe now the time has come for the owners to scrap these channels and instead carry other programming from other content providers. This is a business decision that I don't get to make.

I chose to subscribe to Comcast primarily because my living situation (string of rentals) has not allowed me to construct the required OTA reception infrastructure needed in the Denver metro area. So far, Comcast has also done a good job of delivering the original bit-rate of the programming, which is not consistently happening from other services available here. I think it is reasonably (not greatly) economical compared to the other options. If something akin to Verizon's FIOS were available here I would probably jump ship in a New York minute. And I would definitely be willing to pay more to get more quality HD content.

John Boy

02-13-06, 01:23 PM

Let's not get lost in the math.

My argument is they are wasting bandswidth and its costing you and me money.

My argument is INHD is wasteful, garbage programming likely stuck into the channel lineup to give subscribers the appearance of an abundance of HD channels when there were not that many available.

My argument is, now that there is an overabundance of HD channels, Comcast should scrap these losers and do a better job of filling out the HD channel lineup.

If they want to use 665 (the INHD2 frequency) as a catch-all for Altitude-HD, OLN-HD, NFL-HD, and special HD broadcasts, I have no problem with that. It's probably a good use of the frequency.

But to have two channels showing things like non-tournament high school basketball games from Kansas, "classic" women's volleyball games from early 2005, old NBA games, and really old Russ Meyers T & A movies from the 60s is a waste of bandswidth on a system that has so little it had to scrap INHD2 for a few weeks just to show us the Olympics coverage from Universal HD. If they really think there is a demand for INHD's stuff, then they should put it on OnDemand and let people access it that way. I think this is niche programming at best and not of interest to a general audience.

How many here would rather have TNT-HD instead of INHD1 or 2 (not including Altitude HD, which is not provided by INHD, but which is broadcast on 665 locally by Comcast)?

We've had Universal HD for the last few days. Although it is riddled with 1970s and 80s TV programs, some good and some bad, it does offer a bit more variety, I think. Is this better than even the best programming you've seen on INHD? Frankly I've only seen three programs worth their salt on INHD, and they were music shows: Music 101: Al Green, the Norah Jones special, and the Peter Gabriel concert. But it looks like they've stopped producing or buying new music programs. How many times can they show "The Who on the Isle of Wight"?

Who here wouldn't enjoy having ESPN2-HD come basketball tournament time, or for Major League Baseball or college baseball and football when it comes around again?

How about the new FOX HD channel, set to debut this year? They will supposedly simulcast sports and regular entertainment programming from Fox, FX, Speed, and their other network channels (24, The Shield, Rescue Me)?

The HD world is about to explode with new channels and programming that sounds pretty good and diverse, and not like the clothes dryer circulating the same programs around and around and around.

Why for goodness sake should we have to live with INHD?

For a company that's bleeding red ink, like Comcast, I'd think they'd begin to look at unloading parts of the business that are costing them money. The expense of broadcasting a high school basketball game from Kansas to the nation, and then repeating it about 10 times over the next two weeks, is hard to justify. By programming such expensive garbage (it ain't cheap to send the production crew there, let alone renting the satellite uplink time) CEO Brian Roberts is shirking his responsibility to shareholders, at the very least, and to subscribers at the most.

If Comcast is the owner of INHD, they should either take programming these two channels seriously or scrap them and move new channels into the lineup that better serve their customers' interest. Heck, I'd be willing to pay an extra $2.00/month for something better.

Here,Here I totally agree. Get some good HD channels or reduce our subs costs. What about HD net also?