Denver, CO - Comcast [Text View] - Page 8

haganah

02-13-06, 04:01 PM

Brian can you get all that with just the plain (analog) cable subscription? The QAM/ATSC still picks up all the digital channels (minus HBO)?

I have basic in Boulder for free in our apartment complex. I was hoping to get a QAM and get all the programming.

Thanks

After getting my new Sony HD DVR (DHG-HDD250) setup, I was looking for a list of all the HD and digital channels I could receive without a CableCARD. I currently have Standard service so there are only a few channels I can’t get without it (Discovery HD, INHD, ESPN HD). I will probably pay the $30 fee to have one installed soon, but will be using my DVR for a while without it. I couldn’t find the list anywhere so I took the time to create one last night. Hopefully this will be useful to others. It appears that Comcast is simulcasting nearly all the analog channels in digital so I’m going to reprogram my DVR TV Guide with the digital channels to improve recording quality.

Here’s the list:
Comcastl QAM Station
2 81.1 WB (KWGN)
3 81.3 UPN (KTVD)
4 81.5 CBS (KCNC)
5 83.2 CET
6 81.7 PBS (KRMA)
7 81.6 ABC (KMGH)
8 Municipal Channel
9 81.8 NBC (KUSA)
10 82.6 Telefutura
11 85.4 The Discovery Channel
12 82.8 PBS (KBDI)
13 81.4 FOX
15 83.1 Leased Access
17 82.1 PAX TV
19 KRMT
20 82.2 KDEN
21 84.7 Home Shopping Network
22 Local Access
23 85.2 MTV
24 85.3 USA
25 86.3 Altitude
26 103.8 Fox Sports Rocky Mountain
27 103.10 FX
28 85.7 Nickelodeon
29 83.5 Disney Channel
30 84.1 Animal Planet
31 103.9 Cartoon Network
32 85.6 The Learning Channel
33 103.4 ABC Family
34 103.1 ESPN
35 86.7 ESPN2
36 86.8 History Channel
37 84.3 CNN Headline News
38 84.2 CNN
39 86.9 Home & Garden TV
40 104.5 TNT
41 86.1 A&E
42 104.2 Fox News
43 86.10 Lifetime
44 104.3 Spike TV
45 104.1 The Weather Channel
46 103.7 CNBC
47 103.5 Food Network
48 85.8 Sci-Fi
49 104.6 TBS Superstation
50 82.4 Univision
51 83.4 Azteca America
52 82.7 WGN
53 82.3 KWHD
54 Local Access
55 84.8 QVC
57 84.5 C-SPAN
58 103.2 Hallmark Channel
59 104.10 Fit TV
60 82.5 Telemundo
61 83.8 BRAVO (M-F 5:30pm-4am; Weekends 3:30pm-4am)
61 83.8 Local Access (M-F 4am-5:30pm; Weekends 4am-3:30pm)
62 84.6 C-SPAN 2
64 85.5 AMC
65 103.6 MSNBC
66 85.9 VH-1
67 83.3 Turner Classic Movies
68 86.6 E!
69 84.4 The Golf Channel
70 86.4 Oxygen
71 86.2 Court TV
72 86.5 Comedy Central
73 104.8 Outdoor Life
74 103.3 Travel Channel
75 Galavision
76 85.10 Toon Disney
77 104.9 Speed Channel
78 104.4 TV Land
95 85.1 BET
99 83.10 TV Guide
247 105.9 KMGH (ABC) Digital News
249 112.13 NBC Weather Plus
652 89.1 ABC HD (KMGH-DT)
653 91.1 NBC HD (KUSA-DT)
654 18.1 CBS HD (KCNC-DT)
655 90.1 FOX HD (KDVR-DT)
656 89.2 WB HD (KWGN-DT)
658 91.2 PBS HD (KRMA-DT)
663 Discovery HD Theater
664 iN DEMAND1 HD
665 iN DEMAND2 HD
668 ESPN HD
900-957 87.15 to 87.27 Digital Music
100.21 to 100.28
108.15 to 108.25
119.15 to 119.32

Chiahead

02-13-06, 05:58 PM

Brian can you get all that with just the plain (analog) cable subscription? The QAM/ATSC still picks up all the digital channels (minus HBO)?

I have basic in Boulder for free in our apartment complex. I was hoping to get a QAM and get all the programming.

Thanks

I have basic cable (not digital, no STB) and I can pick all these up except ESPH HD, Discovery HD, INHD1 and INHD2. Your location may make the channels a little different though. I am in Parker, and they don't all line up correctly, but I do get all the channels.

BobLikesHDTV

02-14-06, 09:42 AM

HDNair

02-14-06, 03:09 PM

We've had Universal HD for the last few days. Although it is riddled with 1970s and 80s TV programs, some good and some bad, it does offer a bit more variety, I think. Is this better than even the best programming you've seen on INHD? Frankly I've only seen three programs worth their salt on INHD, and they were music shows: Music 101: Al Green, the Norah Jones special, and the Peter Gabriel concert. But it looks like they've stopped producing or buying new music programs. How many times can they show "The Who on the Isle of Wight"?

I generally agree strongly with your overall sentiment, that the bandwidth should be used for better programming, but I can't agree that UHD would be a better use of the bandwidth than INHD2. They've got exactly one regular bit of programming worth watching on that channel... six month old repeats of Battlestar Galactica. That's pretty good, but the most of the rest of the programming is every bit as exasperrating as anything on INHD2. I'm not a huge fan of most IMAX films, but there's no question it makes for better HD programming than 80s television programs.

roller11

02-14-06, 04:32 PM

KUSA Not Broadcasting Olympics in Dolby 5.1

This morning I sent the following email to KUSA. Would you please help and do the same. Thanks!

--
Dear KUSA,

For the last few days despite NBC’s informing its viewers that sound for the Olympics is in Dolby 5.1, for some reason KUSA is not carrying the games that way.

KUSA sometimes broadcasts programs in Dolby 5.1. Would you please explain why the station has decided not to carry the Olympic games this way?

If possible, please reconsider and, indeed, take advantage of the great sound we are experiencing on Universal HD and allow us to listen in Dolby 5.1 on KUSA.

Thank you.

Worse, on opening night of the Olympics, NBC did a promo informing that
all skiing, luge, 5. pipe, all sliding sports would be in hi definition, what
an outrages lie!! Instead, we get only the blurred images of lo def, only the
ski jumping and womens moguls have been in hi def. (of the outside events). Of course this isn't KUSA fault, but KUSA is BY FAR the worst affiliate
in the entire US, what with their constant degrading of NBC primetime
to lo def with those hideous gray pillar bars. What else would
you expect from them?
All in all, with the majority of NBC primary coverage in lo def, NBC has done a poor job of bringing us the olympics.

David_Levin

02-14-06, 05:15 PM

The new CableCard TiVo (if/when it comes out in the second half of this year) will have 25 (+?) hour capacity and an external SATA port for easy DIY expansion. Of course, you'll lose the ability to get PPV or VOD from Comcast, and even though they demoed the box at CES last month, the box still might not show up on time.

I agree that this looks like a great piece of hardware. But, by the time we add up the box + tivo fee + 2x cable card rentals we'd probably be able to rent 3-5 Comcast PVRs for less money (and, I'm not sure how much longer TiVo will be in business).

gakon

02-14-06, 06:05 PM

Of course this isn't KUSA fault, but KUSA is BY FAR the worst affiliate in the entire US, what with their constant degrading of NBC primetime
to lo def with those hideous gray pillar bars. What else would
you expect from them?I had meant to reply to one of your earlier posts, but forgot. You mentioned it was KUSA's fault that some shows were switching back and forth between SD and HD. While I can't comment on all of them, some (Las Vegas and Surface) have had this problem on a national level, and some of these switches were discussed on the threads for these TV shows. Of course, I'm not going to say ALL (or even most) of the switches were at the national level, but they did occur. As evidenced by Saturday's fiasco, NBC has the hardest time dealing with weather for their HD transmissions.

DP1

02-14-06, 06:28 PM

I generally agree strongly with your overall sentiment, that the bandwidth should be used for better programming, but I can't agree that UHD would be a better use of the bandwidth than INHD2. They've got exactly one regular bit of programming worth watching on that channel... six month old repeats of Battlestar Galactica. That's pretty good, but the most of the rest of the programming is every bit as exasperrating as anything on INHD2. I'm not a huge fan of most IMAX films, but there's no question it makes for better HD programming than 80s television programs.

Just goes to show that theres no accounting for taste. Theres no shortage of DBS subs that wish they had the InHD's that Comcast has to go along with their HDNets for example that Comcast doesnt have. Or the HD movie channels that Comcast offers that DBS doesnt.

The only way it'll end up being a perfect world is when all the providers offer all the HD channels, not unlike they currently do for the most part with SD channels.

I just got a Dish Mpeg4 HD receiver for cheap and added TNT HD, 2 HDNets, ESPN2 HD, Universal HD, and the 15 Voom channels for whatever any of them are worth. Presumably they might offer some other new HD channels before Comcast Denver does, too.

After slashing some programming/hardware from Comcast that I didnt really need, I'll only be paying about $2 more a month than I was already paying to Comcast alone. But now I'll still have one HD DVR from Comcast as well as access to the InHD's and the 2 HD movie channels that DBS doesnt have yet (Starz HD and Cinemax HD) if I so choose.

But if a person refuses to or otherwise cant have more than one provider, they just have to pick the one that best suits their needs. Technically I have 3 providers because I'm grandfathered in with DirecTv too for the NFL-ST package with no other base subscripition. Whatever works.

Since the day I started watching the purty pictures of HD in my home 6 years ago you couldnt get all the HD channels/programming available by only using any one provider/source. The same still holds true today. And will continue to hold true for some time to come it would seem.

David James

02-14-06, 07:08 PM

After slashing some programming/hardware from Comcast that I didnt really need, I'll only be paying about $2 more a month than I was already paying to Comcast alone. But now I'll still have one HD DVR from Comcast as well as access to the InHD's and the 2 HD movie channels that DBS doesnt have yet (Starz HD and Cinemax HD) if I so choose.
If you don't mind sharing, what is your set up now, what are getting, from whom and for how much.

BobLikesHDTV

02-14-06, 07:26 PM

BobLikesHDTV

02-14-06, 07:30 PM

I figured out today that between Comcast's cable and Internet service, I pay almost $2000 a year.

How much C-band HDTV can somebody buy for about $1200 a year?

DP1

02-14-06, 08:34 PM

Hi Dan,

How is the HD-lite on D*'s MPEG 4 receiver? Or is that just another rumor that proves inaccurate?

Well I got E*'s not D*'s. I belive all 1080i channels are compromised on DirecTv resolution wise, not all of them are on Dish. The Voom channels leave something to be desired PQ wise although they're not as bad as I thought they might be (which prolly explains why all the D* subs havent bailed in full force if all of their 1920x1080 stuff is 1280x1080).

I'm not gonna rant over it. I knew going in the Voom channels werent all they could be. From what I've watched so far it kinda depends on the content. Some of it looks pretty darn good even if it is 1280x1080. Other stuff you can tell it's not really up to snuff.

But the 2 HDNets, TNT HD, ESPN's etc.. all look great which makes sense since to hear tell they're not really bein messed with.

I just wanted access to some new channels since I think it might be a while before Comcast adds them. The receiver only cost me 49.00 and I still had the dishes. Mind you it's not a DVR but I didnt feel like laying out even 2 or 3 hundred upfront. especially with E*'s track record on hardware.

Plus the type of viewing I'll be doing with that box doesnt make a DVR near as mandatory.. at least for me. Live sports or channels with a lot of repetition.. HDNets, Vooms, etc ... are not things I tend to use a DVR with. It's for commercial ridden stuff and/or programming thats more or less one and done (save re-run season), like Network programming where I tend to use it. And still can.. with Comcast.

As you've pointed out with the InHD's, the repitition can be so brutal on some of these channels that if you dont get a chance to sit down and watch it whenever it might be airing for the 30th time, you aint tryin very hard. ;)

roller11

02-15-06, 01:02 AM

Well I got E*'s not D*'s. I belive all 1080i channels are compromised on DirecTv resolution wise, not all of them are on Dish. The Voom channels leave something to be desired PQ wise although they're not as bad as I thought they might be (which prolly explains why all the D* subs havent bailed in full force if all of their 1920x1080 stuff is 1280x1080).

I'm not gonna rant over it. I knew going in the Voom channels werent all they could be. From what I've watched so far it kinda depends on the content. Some of it looks pretty darn good even if it is 1280x1080. Other stuff you can tell it's not really up to snuff.

But the 2 HDNets, TNT HD, ESPN's etc.. all look great which makes sense since to hear tell they're not really bein messed with.

I just wanted access to some new channels since I think it might be a while before Comcast adds them. The receiver only cost me 49.00 and I still had the dishes. Mind you it's not a DVR but I didnt feel like laying out even 2 or 3 hundred upfront. especially with E*'s track record on hardware.

Plus the type of viewing I'll be doing with that box doesnt make a DVR near as mandatory.. at least for me. Live sports or channels with a lot of repetition.. HDNets, Vooms, etc ... are not things I tend to use a DVR with. It's for commercial ridden stuff and/or programming thats more or less one and done (save re-run season), like Network programming where I tend to use it. And still can.. with Comcast.

As you've pointed out with the InHD's, the repitition can be so brutal on some of these channels that if you dont get a chance to sit down and watch it whenever it might be airing for the 30th time, you aint tryin very hard. ;)

Are all Voom channels sub- HD, or just the ones since Feb.1?

HDNair

02-15-06, 01:32 AM

Just goes to show that theres no accounting for taste.

True enough. I can understand why people are frustrated by the repition of the INHD programming. You've had HDTV for six years, I've had it for less than six weeks, so I haven't had time to become frustrated. I've been looking at UHD's schedule and they do have a few decent movies here and there, and perhaps there is less repetition. After I get a clean recording of "Baraka" and as long as they continue to preempt the programming to show the Altitude HD feeds, I wouldn't have a complaint if INHD2 was replaced by UHD.

But their decision to expend so much of their programming to air older television shows bothers me quite a bit. These shows were never meant to be shown on 16:9 HDTVs. I'm pretty good at trying to understand POV's I don't agree with and playing devil's advocate, but this is one I can't understand one bit. And this is coming from a guy who loved Knight Rider as a kid and Quantam Leap as a teenager. Considering that HDTV is still very much a niche market, I can't see how there would be very many people who would spend thousands of dollars on a HDTV who would be eager to try out their new toy watching an old television show. But watching an IMAX film, non-live sporting events, etc., yes, I can see that, though it's not something I'd necessarily want to see. The Russ Meyer film is pretty hard to figure out though.

DP1

02-15-06, 09:27 AM

True enough. I can understand why people are frustrated by the repition of the INHD programming. You've had HDTV for six years, I've had it for less than six weeks, so I haven't had time to become frustrated. I've been looking at UHD's schedule and they do have a few decent movies here and there, and perhaps there is less repetition. After I get a clean recording of "Baraka" and as long as they continue to preempt the programming to show the Altitude HD feeds, I wouldn't have a complaint if INHD2 was replaced by UHD.

But their decision to expend so much of their programming to air older television shows bothers me quite a bit. These shows were never meant to be shown on 16:9 HDTVs. I'm pretty good at trying to understand POV's I don't agree with and playing devil's advocate, but this is one I can't understand one bit. And this is coming from a guy who loved Knight Rider as a kid and Quantam Leap as a teenager. Considering that HDTV is still very much a niche market, I can't see how there would be very many people who would spend thousands of dollars on a HDTV who would be eager to try out their new toy watching an old television show. But watching an IMAX film, non-live sporting events, etc., yes, I can see that, though it's not something I'd necessarily want to see. The Russ Meyer film is pretty hard to figure out though.

I hear ya. And dont get me wrong.. I wasnt even saying which channel I'd prefer. I was just commenting as a 3rd party on your exchange with Bob. And other exchanges like it where one person likes X channel and another prefers Y.

In general I agree with you. I'd much rather have some stunning nature type shows than old re-runs of tv series. Like with TNT HD.. I dont care to watch any of the old Judging Amy's or NYPD Blues... none of their daytime fare. But when they have the NBA or Nascar in HD it's nice to have. Unless of course one doesnt care a lick about those 2 things.

Or HDNet.. in general, cool station. But whats up with having Hogans Heroes or Thats Life for example?

Thats why like I say, until all providers offer "all" the channels, the discussions about which ones are more worthy or deserving in an either/or scenario will rage on.

DP1

02-15-06, 09:37 AM

Are all Voom channels sub- HD, or just the ones since Feb.1?

I think they all are. But I'm not going to say it as a matter of *fact* because I personally dont have a means to measure it. Can just go by what I read from those who do.

All I can go by is what I see. And like I said, some of the channels/programming look pretty good, and some are lacking.

Wifey was watching some of that Ultra channel.. runway models. Not a lot of movement.. just a fixed camera.. plenty of detail.. looked pretty good... no complaints (well except the gals are too skinny ;) ) Same with some of the stuff on the Treasure channel or whatever it's called.

But like on Equator where theres nature flyovers or quicker pans, it suffers some. Saw a couple Smart Travels episodes on there. While they didnt look "bad" they didnt look as good as I've seen them in the past on HDNet for example.

BobLikesHDTV

02-15-06, 10:35 AM

KUSA Not Broadcasting Olympics in Dolby 5.1.

As a follow-up to my email to KUSA regarding this issue, this morning I received the following reply from Don Perez:

Thank you for your note. We did initially, but found issues with the NBC feed and were getting number complaints from viewers regarding the quality of the audio. We are monitoring the situation and expect to go back once we are more confidant of the feed. Again, thank you

BobLikesHDTV

02-15-06, 11:03 AM

I hear ya. And dont get me wrong.. I wasnt even saying which channel I'd prefer. I was just commenting as a 3rd party on your exchange with Bob. And other exchanges like it where one person likes X channel and another prefers Y.

Please don't get me wrong, either. I'm saying on most days any other channel is a better choice than INHD. And they don't have enough content for one channel let alone two. Frankly, I can think of a few test patterns that, if rendered in HD, would be more entertaining than most of the programs on INHD. :p

roller11

02-15-06, 11:57 AM

I think they all are. But I'm not going to say it as a matter of *fact* because I personally dont have a means to measure it. Can just go by what I read from those who do.

All I can go by is what I see. And like I said, some of the channels/programming look pretty good, and some are lacking.

Wifey was watching some of that Ultra channel.. runway models. Not a lot of movement.. just a fixed camera.. plenty of detail.. looked pretty good... no complaints (well except the gals are too skinny ;) ) Same with some of the stuff on the Treasure channel or whatever it's called.

But like on Equator where theres nature flyovers or quicker pans, it suffers some. Saw a couple Smart Travels episodes on there. While they didnt look "bad" they didnt look as good as I've seen them in the past on HDNet for example.

While expected, this is still extremely bad/disappointing news.
We had Voom for 4 months in 2004, and enjoyed it greatly because
of the 1920x1080 WOW factor. I cancelled just in time to get a full refund.
The most important channel to me is the Equator HD channel, so the worst case is
if this channel in particular poor.
Now I must decide if I want to cancel my Dish 622 order immediately since
you've verified that the Voom channels aren't in HD. On the other hand, I have 72
hours after the install to cancel and get a full refund, so I may just go ahead.
problem is, Comcast doesn't offer HD in my city, so I can't do a definitive
side-by-side of Discovery HD Comcast vs Dishnetwork.

One more thing...is your TV a 1280x720 display or 1920x1080?

DP1

02-15-06, 12:48 PM

While expected, this is still extremely bad/disappointing news.
We had Voom for 4 months in 2004, and enjoyed it greatly because
of the 1920x1080 WOW factor. I cancelled just in time to get a full refund.
The most important channel to me is the Equator HD channel, so the worst case is
if this channel in particular poor.
Now I must decide if I want to cancel my Dish 622 order immediately since
you've verified that the Voom channels aren't in HD. On the other hand, I have 72
hours after the install to cancel and get a full refund, so I may just go ahead.
problem is, Comcast doesn't offer HD in my city, so I can't do a definitive
side-by-side of Discovery HD Comcast vs Dishnetwork.

One more thing...is your TV a 1280x720 display or 1920x1080?

I wouldnt worry about Discovery or ESPN (it's 720p anyway).. at least at this point. I'd be worried about the Voom channels and perhaps the Locals whenever they get around to adding them.

As far as displays I have 3 diff ones to experiment with but none of them can fully resolve a 1920x1080 signal. A 1080i CRT RP set but it only has 7" guns so it cant do it (I think with CRT's you need 9" guns). And 2 projectors.. one 1280x720p and one thats XGA. But naturally that doesnt preclude me from seeing any difference between a show on the Voom channels and they same show on HDNet for example. Course that part of the overall problem here. The vast majority of "HD" displays in consumers hands at this point cant resolve it either.

Even watching Smart Travels on Voom through most any "HD" display is gonna blow the uninitiated away compared to watching it the way they always used to. In 4x3 SD on an analog channel. Obviously the DBS co's are playing off that to certain degrees right now. Just like they always did with SD. On a 27" set their SD looks fine to most people. Start blowing it up and it doesnt. But most people have 27" SD sets as opposed to appreciably larger ones.

Anyway, for someone like yourself based on what you've said..whether it's just in principle and/or because you do have a set that can truly resolve 1920x1080i I must conclude theres no way you'd be happy with what you'd see on the Voom channels at this moment. Wouldnt be as worried about the more "mainstream" channels like the HDNets, TNT, Uni, Disc, ESPN's etc. But whats to say they wont jack with those too come tomorrow?

roller11

02-15-06, 01:28 PM

As far as displays I have 3 diff ones to experiment with but none of them can fully resolve a 1920x1080 signal. A 1080i CRT RP set but it only has 7" guns so it cant do it (I think with CRT's you need 9" guns). And 2 projectors.. one 1280x720p and one thats XGA. But naturally that doesnt preclude me from seeing any difference between a show on the Voom channels and they same show on HDNet for example. Course that part of the overall problem here. The vast majority of "HD" displays in consumers hands at this point cant resolve it either.

So, your comments are based on a display that minimizes the degradation,
so the magnitude of the problem is even worse.

Even watching Smart Travels on Voom through most any "HD" display is gonna blow the uninitiated away compared to watching it the way they always used to.

See, that's the thing, my starting point is 1920x1080, that's the only way
I've ever watched Smart Travels. ST in SD would be too ugly to tolerate.
As much as my wife and I like this show, give me ST in standard 1920x1080,
or not at all.

Anyway, for someone like yourself based on what you've said..whether it's just in principle and/or because you do have a set that can truly resolve 1920x1080i

Both. I just got a JVC 1920x1080 LCOS set and now my older 1280x720
Sammy DLP looks ho-hum. As to principle, it bothers me to reward
Dish for screwing their subs by advertizing HD and delivering non-HD.

I don't know how many years it will take, but I imagine it will require an act
of congress to put an end to this type of consumer abuse, the DBS folks
aren't going to stop on their own.

DP1

02-15-06, 03:01 PM

See, that's the thing, my starting point is 1920x1080, that's the only way
I've ever watched Smart Travels. ST in SD would be too ugly to tolerate.
As much as my wife and I like this show, give me ST in standard 1920x1080,
or not at all.

I just got a JVC 1920x1080 LCOS set and now my older 1280x720
Sammy DLP looks ho-hum.

Does that mean if *all* providers decided that 1280x1080 was "good enough" to send out "HD" signals at , you'd just stop watching tv altogether? ;)

I also presume you're not fond of ABC/ESPN/Fox's decision to use 720p as their HD broadcast standard?

I've never got too caught up in the numbers game. Either something "looks good" to me or it doesnt within the realm of the display I'm using. Theres too many variables to just break it down into resolution numbers. Although sure, maybe one should leave the resolution unmolested no matter what and then just work from that.

Then again they could keep the resolution numbers up but drop the bitrate down so much that it'd look crappy regardless (is that the definition of over compression). Which is probably the biggest reason they've gone to some of these resolutions anyway. Theres only so many bits per transponder to go around and to cram more channels in thus skimping on bit rate they figure the picture as whole is better that way. Skimp on resolution which far less people would notice compared to skimping on bit rate for a given resolution where actual artifacts would become far more noticeable on any display.

I saw that a lot on a Canadian DBS provider I've used to get the HD Networks from Boston and Seattle back when the Denver CBS/NBC werent even on the air digitally yet. At first it was good but then as they started adding more HD channels it got worse. Oh they werent messing with the resolution. But they werent using 8psk or Mpeg4 of course and each transponder had like say 38-40 M/bps to go around. When there was only 2 HD channels per transponder it was fine. Or even 2 of those and a couple SD channels mixed in. But then in some cases they started going to 3 HD channels per transponder and well, yeah. Suffice it to say, PQ suffered. Not so much in more or less static imagery because the resolution was there.. but as a whole when you factor in every other kind of imagery.

roller11

02-15-06, 08:35 PM

Does that mean if *all* providers decided that 1280x1080 was "good enough" to send out "HD" signals at , you'd just stop watching tv altogether? ;)

I would continue to watch whichever programs would not be degraded by going to 1280x1080, i.e. I would still watch all of FOX and ABC progs,
I would stop watching CBS, WB, PBS and NBC .

I also presume you're not fond of ABC/ESPN/Fox's decision to use 720p as their HD broadcast standard?

That is an understatement. However, ABC/FOX has always been 1280x720,
so I accept that res from them even though their programs would look
much better in full resolution HD. What I won't accept is a program
establishing a standard, then crippling the PQ, such as the way Voom channels
are now crippled.

I've never got too caught up in the numbers game. Either something "looks good" to me or it doesnt within the realm of the display I'm using. Theres too many variables to just break it down into resolution numbers. Although sure, maybe one should leave the resolution unmolested no matter what and then just work from that.

Granted there is a lot more to it than numbers. For example, 2.5 Men and NCIS
have extremely poor PQ, Yes Dear and Still Standing look fantastic. All are
1920x1080 but the differences in PQ are night and day. But all other things equal,
a higher res looks better than a lower res.

Then again they could keep the resolution numbers up but drop the bitrate down so much that it'd look crappy regardless (is that the definition of over compression). Which is probably the biggest reason they've gone to some of these resolutions anyway. Theres only so many bits per transponder to go around and to cram more channels in thus skimping on bit rate they figure the picture as whole is better that way. Skimp on resolution which far less people would notice compared to skimping on bit rate for a given resolution where actual artifacts would become far more noticeable on any display.

Yes, of course the DBS folks take "more channels" as the given, and
then work the 'motion artifacts vs resolution' tradeoff. Quite possibly
they make the right tradeoff by hurting the res to benefit motion.
My gripe is that they can give us both hi res and good motion by
increasing the bitrate per channel, but they choose not to do that.
I understand that they are really choosing to increase corporate profits
at the expense of the viewers, and that's understandable. Hell, if
I was an exec and had the choice of building a $28 million estate in Malibu, or,
giving the subs full PQ, no doubt I'd go for Malibu estate, who can blame them?
But they should be accountable for their false advertizing. If my neighborhood
dairy started mixing a half gallon of water into each gallon of milk, they
would not be allowed to call it "milk" any more. Yet the DBS guys are allowed
to advertize their sub-HD offerings as "HD".

xiaoyu

02-16-06, 03:58 PM

I lost my recording of HD test pattern from INHD2, due to exchange my box. Can someone tell me the schedule in montain time? Thanks.

Xiaoyu,

gakon

02-16-06, 04:51 PM

InHD2 is being preempted during the Olympics. Universal HD is being shown in its place. The UHD schedule is here (http://www.universalhd.com/Schedule/daily.bravo?start_date=&end_date=). There is a pull-down for the time zone.

intake

02-17-06, 12:51 AM

HDJello

02-17-06, 02:15 PM

Is anyone in the Evergreen area able to receive QAM local channels with a basic subscription? My current set isn't picking up anything, but I don't know if it is the set (Samsung TX-P2675WH w/ upgraded firmware), a block on the line, or if Comcast doesn't push QAM out in my neighborhood.

Any ideas?
I do not believe that set has a QAM tuner to begin with; it just has ATSC and NTSC. So you would need to acquire a QAM tuner, or pay $5/mo. to Comcast for the non-DVR box.

intake

02-17-06, 08:30 PM

It does, or was supposed to once the firmware was updated to fix a manufacturing bug.

In any case, I picked up a Sony KDF-E50A10 which DOES have a QAM tuner, and I still don't get any digital channels. I'll just have to call Comcast, but judging on the relatively poor quality of the basic cable signal, my guess is that HD is not offered back where I live. :(

gakon

02-17-06, 09:15 PM

I'll just have to call Comcast, but judging on the relatively poor quality of the basic cable signal, my guess is that HD is not offered back where I live. :(Comcast's web site can also identify whether you can get HD in your area or not. I doubt it's 100% accurate, but neither are the CSR's. localizer (http://www.comcast.com/Localization/Localize.ashx?*********Home&LinkID=18&NoAuto=1)

den-mitsu

02-17-06, 09:46 PM

Upgraded to a Mitsu WD-62827 - the one with the built in HD-DVR and CableCard - and opted to upgrade to Comcast's Digital service. Great - I can kill a bunch of birds with one big rock - get rid of my Reply (or at least relegate it to saving reruns of non HD shows) out of the AV rack, integrated channel listings, bright shiny new DLP, etc, etc, etc.

After FINALLY getting a CableCard installed (don't ask why, but it took 3 service calls to get someone with a card in their hand out to the house!!) I'm having problems getting the TVGOS to load.

Here's the litany of things that I've tried:
1) Set up TVGOS to load to the CableCard input - no download of programming info or even the clock in the TVGOS screens

2) Split the cable and fed the other cable to the 2nd input. Activated the port and set it up for TVGOS. Next morning, programming had downloaded just fine for the analog channels. However, flipping over to the CableCard input shows no downloads.

3) Thinking something got whacked when doing all the gyrations to get the CableCard installed and the mucking that I'd done to date to get it to work, I did a factory reset on the box and reset everything to a) get the time from the local PBS (probably the same as the TVGOS data) and for the CableCard input to download the TVGOS data. So far, I haven't even gotten the time downloaded from the VBI of PBS (KRMA).

Does anyone in the Denver area (north metro - Westminster rebuild to be exact) have TVGOS up and running with a CableCard install? The above testing leads me to believe I either have a flaky CC or that the VBI data is getting stripped/dropped by Comcast (I can hardly wait to try and prove that!!)

Any thoughts/comments appreciated (or maybe tell me it was a bad week to stop sniffing glue...).

CEB II

02-18-06, 10:57 PM

HDJello

02-18-06, 11:04 PM

I'm trying to sort out Comcasts prices. If I order, say the Digital Gold package, and I want HDTV and an HD-DVR, are these last two additive. That is, do I get charged $5 for HDTV and another $9.95 for the HD-DVR?
The $9.95 is supposed to include the DVR and HD services. That is certainly true on my bill, which lists Dvr/hdtv for $9.95 and no other cable charges beyond the package (and the various taxes, fees, and so forth). Apparantly BobLikesHDTV was getting clipped for the additional $5, which would appear to be wrong. If you have a second HDTV they charge you another $5, for either a box or a cable card.

captainjy

02-23-06, 04:25 AM

Just goes to show that theres no accounting for taste. Theres no shortage of DBS subs that wish they had the InHD's that Comcast has to go along with their HDNets for example that Comcast doesnt have. Or the HD movie channels that Comcast offers that DBS doesnt.

The only way it'll end up being a perfect world is when all the providers offer all the HD channels, not unlike they currently do for the most part with SD channels.

I just got a Dish Mpeg4 HD receiver for cheap and added TNT HD, 2 HDNets, ESPN2 HD, Universal HD, and the 15 Voom channels for whatever any of them are worth. Presumably they might offer some other new HD channels before Comcast Denver does, too.

After slashing some programming/hardware from Comcast that I didnt really need, I'll only be paying about $2 more a month than I was already paying to Comcast alone. But now I'll still have one HD DVR from Comcast as well as access to the InHD's and the 2 HD movie channels that DBS doesnt have yet (Starz HD and Cinemax HD) if I so choose.

But if a person refuses to or otherwise cant have more than one provider, they just have to pick the one that best suits their needs. Technically I have 3 providers because I'm grandfathered in with DirecTv too for the NFL-ST package with no other base subscripition. Whatever works.

Since the day I started watching the purty pictures of HD in my home 6 years ago you couldnt get all the HD channels/programming available by only using any one provider/source. The same still holds true today. And will continue to hold true for some time to come it would seem.

Damn Dan, you must watch a LOT of TV! I can barely keep up with just one provider!!!

I know you touched on this recently and though we got a very sweet deal from Comcast ($85/mo for Internet and HD/HBO and DVR service), we are seriously considering going to Dish Network or back to DirecTV. I really miss satellite and Tivo, but we primarily moved to Comcast for the local HD channels so we wouldn't have to mess with OTA antennae. Bottom line is that I am not very impressed with Comcast's HD offering and by the sound of it, we may not be very impressed with the "lite" HD from either D* or E*. Would you recommend Dish Network? We have a Mits 52628 and would like to obviously try getting optimal PQ, but if we are only talking slight differences overall for the main channels, I think I would make the sacrifice. Is E* and D* getting local HD this spring?

There are many great things about Comcast, but I am just not happy with quality of service we have been getting, the lack of HD channels and the laggy hardware they provide. Our 6412 is clunky at best. Comcast's HD lineup is somewhat weak IMO. As others have stated, INHD is ridiculous. Just too much pointless programming to keep me coming back. Sure, it's nice watching the AVS or The Nuggets from time to time, but overall, very disappointing.

DP1

02-23-06, 09:23 AM

Damn Dan, you must watch a LOT of TV! I can barely keep up with just one provider!!!

I know you touched on this recently and though we got a very sweet deal from Comcast ($85/mo for Internet and HD/HBO and DVR service), we are seriously considering going to Dish Network or back to DirecTV. I really miss satellite and Tivo, but we primarily moved to Comcast for the local HD channels so we wouldn't have to mess with OTA antennae. Bottom line is that I am not very impressed with Comcast's HD offering and by the sound of it, we may not be very impressed with the "lite" HD from either D* or E*. Would you recommend Dish Network? We have a Mits 52628 and would like to obviously try getting optimal PQ, but if we are only talking slight differences overall for the main channels, I think I would make the sacrifice. Is E* and D* getting local HD this spring?

There are many great things about Comcast, but I am just not happy with quality of service we have been getting, the lack of HD channels and the laggy hardware they provide. Our 6412 is clunky at best. Comcast's HD lineup is somewhat weak IMO. As others have stated, INHD is ridiculous. Just too much pointless programming to keep me coming back. Sure, it's nice watching the AVS or The Nuggets from time to time, but overall, very disappointing.

It's not that I watch a lot of TV, it's just that I want the most choice within reason. In the SD world they all offer about the same channels but that hasnt been so in the HD world.

I had been with Dish (both SD and HD) for a long time until Comcast finally rolled out HD. When they first did, a little over 2 years ago, it was a killer deal because all the HD channels they offered (basically the same ones they still have today) were in free preview mode for months. Including the premium movie channel HD versions. So for like 20 bucks a month (13.44 for Basic cable, 6.75 for the HD box), for months on end you got all their HD. To NOT take advantage of that would have been foolish in my book.

Then a year later you get get an HD DVR with nothing upfront.. that was great too. But that brings us to today where they cant even find room to add TNT-HD and Universal HD on a full time basis. Not that those are incredible channels but it shows that they need to do something about capacity because Comcast in other areas is offering those channels.. so it's not like a contractual situation.

Thats why I've decided to go back with Dish. Would I recommend them? Oh I dont know. From a pure channel line-up I would.. unless one is hung up on the InHD's or Starz!, Cinemax HD. Dish should have the HD Locals up soon.. they're already linking them up to the satellites.. just a matter of making them available to subs.

Biggest prob with Dish is the hardware. Especially when they first roll it out. Usually tends to have a number of bugs that need to be ironed out over time. I've never had a beef with the 6412 but I'm not a "power user" either. I just pick certain things out of the guide to record. Dont set up "season pass" type deals for example even though I obviously watch certain things on a weekly basis. And of course PQ has always been good.

Dish just rolled out a new HD DVR this month.. while the guys using it seem to like it overall, there are the bug reports coming in. Maybe they'll be smoothed out soon enough.. maybe they wont.. time will tell. Course you'd need to drop 299.00 out upfront for their HD DVR to find out for yourself.

Dont really have any comments on D*. We've never really seen eye to eye and I dont think I'd ever use them as my primary provider. Although simply getting NFL-ST from them on an ala-carte basis has always worked out fine.

dr_mal

02-23-06, 11:37 AM

There are many great things about Comcast, but I am just not happy with quality of service we have been getting, the lack of HD channels and the laggy hardware they provide. Our 6412 is clunky at best. Comcast's HD lineup is somewhat weak IMO. As others have stated, INHD is ridiculous. Just too much pointless programming to keep me coming back. Sure, it's nice watching the AVS or The Nuggets from time to time, but overall, very disappointing.
I feel like the official TiVo pimp, but here I go again:

Keep in mind that Comcast will be rolling out TiVo software to the 6412s supposedly some time this year.

Also TiVo will be rolling out a standalone HD TiVo with CableCard slots again, supposedly some time this year.

So if their DVR is your biggest complaint, there's relief on the way.

captainjy

02-23-06, 03:59 PM

It's not that I watch a lot of TV, it's just that I want the most choice within reason. In the SD world they all offer about the same channels but that hasnt been so in the HD world.

I had been with Dish (both SD and HD) for a long time until Comcast finally rolled out HD. When they first did, a little over 2 years ago, it was a killer deal because all the HD channels they offered (basically the same ones they still have today) were in free preview mode for months. Including the premium movie channel HD versions. So for like 20 bucks a month (13.44 for Basic cable, 6.75 for the HD box), for months on end you got all their HD. To NOT take advantage of that would have been foolish in my book.

Then a year later you get get an HD DVR with nothing upfront.. that was great too. But that brings us to today where they cant even find room to add TNT-HD and Universal HD on a full time basis. Not that those are incredible channels but it shows that they need to do something about capacity because Comcast in other areas is offering those channels.. so it's not like a contractual situation.

Thats why I've decided to go back with Dish. Would I recommend them? Oh I dont know. From a pure channel line-up I would.. unless one is hung up on the InHD's or Starz!, Cinemax HD. Dish should have the HD Locals up soon.. they're already linking them up to the satellites.. just a matter of making them available to subs.

Biggest prob with Dish is the hardware. Especially when they first roll it out. Usually tends to have a number of bugs that need to be ironed out over time. I've never had a beef with the 6412 but I'm not a "power user" either. I just pick certain things out of the guide to record. Dont set up "season pass" type deals for example even though I obviously watch certain things on a weekly basis. And of course PQ has always been good.

Dish just rolled out a new HD DVR this month.. while the guys using it seem to like it overall, there are the bug reports coming in. Maybe they'll be smoothed out soon enough.. maybe they wont.. time will tell. Course you'd need to drop 299.00 out upfront for their HD DVR to find out for yourself.

Dont really have any comments on D*. We've never really seen eye to eye and I dont think I'd ever use them as my primary provider. Although simply getting NFL-ST from them on an ala-carte basis has always worked out fine.

Dan, thanks! That answers some questions. We originally left Comcast for Dish and I really liked Dish, but then I discovered Tivo and that changed things for us. I missed the speed of changing channels and Dish's guide, but Tivo was it for me! We were with D* for about 2 years and we just got a new HDTV at the end of last year, but no HD local channels. Now we are missing Tivo and just unhappy with lag and the quality of programming with Comcast. I am very unimpressed with their guide and DVR. Very archaic, IMO. I would like to see Comcast get some quality HD channels. I know it's been drilled in here, but both INHD channels, completely my opinion, are lousy. Very mundane, uninsteresting material.

Anyhow, appreciate the input. Hopefully Tivo will be coming to Comcast soon!

Your User Name:

02-24-06, 02:35 PM

roller11

02-24-06, 06:56 PM

Anyhow, appreciate the input. Hopefully Tivo will be coming to Comcast soon!

Why not go ahead and order the DISh 622 and find out for yourself?
Remember, there's the 72 hour 'buyers remorse' period so your $299.99
isn't at risk.

There's no way I would pay E* $300.00 up front
and be stuck with their box even if it turns out the "no HD" rumors are true,
so I'm leaning heavily on that 72 hour evaluation period.
Anyhow, I received my 622 box yesterday, so now I'm waiting for the
installer to come by and make it fully functional, I'm scheduled for
a MArch 4 hookup.
the first thing I'm going to do after activation is
go through all 25 HD content channels and make a conclusive determination
of which are in HD and which are in ED. I can do this cause I have a full resolution
1920x1080 TV set. I get CBS from both OTA and Comcast, and now I'll get CBS from
L.A. through Dish cause I got a waiver. If, for example, the L.A.
feed is inferior 1280x1080, I'll know it the second I tune in
"How I Met Your Mother" on Monday night, this prog represents the pinnacle
in PQ, so it is a good test. Ditto Letterman.

Likewise, I get Smart Travels OTA on PBS, a strictly top quality 1920x1080
source. I'll watch S.T. on both HDNET and Equator HD on Dish, and compare
to OTA. If there is a difference, I'll spot it and then we will all know that
Equator HD isn't HD. If the PQ is identical then that proves that Equator
HD is full res HD.
I'll be posting my results in this forum MArch 4 in the PM, so check back
if you want to know whether or not the "no HD on Dish" rumors are true.
As to the major networks, that will have to wait. Dish will be adding
them around Apr.1, and at this time we don't know if they will be in HD or not.

So pending my MAr.4 experiment, I may or may not be swapping my current
Comcast service for Dish. Here in Longmont, we don't get any cable HD channels,
only CBS,NBC, FOX, ABC in HD. If I go with Dish, I'll give up Comcast and go back
to recording these channels OTA like I did from Aug.2003 until
Dec.2005, before I had Comcast. This is very inconvenient relative to
recording them on the C* box, so Dish must show me that this inconvenience
is worth it.

DP1

02-24-06, 07:14 PM

Well again, you dont really have to go to all that trouble. It's well documented (at least as far as I'm concerned) that the Voom channels are 1280x1080i. And they by in large look it too. It's just a bit more obvious on some than others depending on the content. Just like how even on true 1920x1080i channels some content doesnt exactly show it off.

I mean no offense but I dont think anybody has any more reason to believe your conclusions any more than they believe those who can actually measure the bit rate and resolution regardless of what a channel or program simply "looks like".

But hey maybe you'll get lucky and they'll look flat wonderful on your display regardless of the numbers. ;)

On your OTA channels do you have any that are pretty marginal up there or do they all come in pretty good at your place? The reason I ask is it seems that from early reports one of the biggest problems the 622 is having in regards to crashes and or reboots is being tuned to OTA channels where the signal strength is somewhat borderline.

Course that wont be quite as big of problem once they're offering the HD Locals.. unless the PQ is somewhat compromised or when you still have cause to wanna record the OTA channels due to programming conflicts or whatever.

roller11

02-25-06, 01:55 AM

It's well documented (at least as far as I'm concerned) that the Voom channels are 1280x1080i.

I have yet to see any documentation of the res that Dish is encoding
their channels. That is, any measurement, any
admission by Dish that they are delivering their HD content in non-HD.
Dish simply is replying "no comment" to the question of res.
Seems obvious to me that if they were encoding content at 1920x1080,
they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

We have instead reports of relatively poor PQ from people such as yourself.
So far, I've seen four reports and they are all in agreement: Dish, like
DirectV, appears to be in non-HD. When one understands the great financial
incentive the Satellite folks have to offer poor PQ, it seems a dead certainty that
they are doing just that. My only question is why did it take them so long
to uncork the down-rezzing genie?

On your OTA channels do you have any that are pretty marginal up there or do they all come in pretty good at your place? The reason I ask is it seems that from early reports one of the biggest problems the 622 is having in regards to crashes and or reboots is being tuned to OTA channels where the signal strength is somewhat borderline.

NBC, FOX, ABC, PBS, WB are all strong. CBS is the weakest, but it
is above 55 strength about 99% of the time. Maybe two days a year I'll see
CBS strength be borderline, so it isn't a problem (CBS is almost always
above 60%).

Course that wont be quite as big of problem once they're offering the HD Locals.. unless the PQ is somewhat compromised or when you still have cause to wanna record the OTA channels due to programming conflicts or whatever.

I have two computers that are setup as HD recorders for OTA HD, plus the cable/OTA
port on 622. Plus, I have a waiver for CBS in L.A.
As to the soon to be offered locals, I have resigned myself to CBS/NBC
being degraded by 33%, but FOX and ABC may well not be degraded at
all since they originate at 1280x720. So I'll probably record ABC/FOX
on TV1 and TV2 and use my computers for NBC/CBS so as to get everything
in full quality.

BobLikesHDTV

02-26-06, 10:30 AM

I would like to see TNT come to Comcast HD for the NBA content, but other than that, there's not much I'm longing for in HD that isn't already there. I watch a few shows like 24, Lost and West Wing in HD, HBO and ESPN. With Altitude games pre-empting INHD2, I can't think of anything else I'd need. I'd like to see more HD InDemand stuff, but I can't think of any channels I really desire in HD.

You know what I'd like from Comcast? I'd like to get every satellite and local HD channel that exists and all the rest to come and then let me decide which I will and will not watch.

INHD is almost unwatchable. They don't have enough content for one channel let alone two. The real "winner" channel that is coming is Fox-HD (not like the local Fox affiliate). Sports and a combination of HD programs from all the Fox network channels (Fox Sports Net, FX, etc... shows like "The Shield", "Rescue Me", local baseball and soforth). That will be worth having as will TNT-HD. They have some pretty good first-run movies and series (I enjoy "The Closer", for example).

But I'd rather them give me all of it and let me decide what to watch. But no. We need 8 religious and 10 shopping channels to go with the porn PPV. They could just as easily pipe the porn PPV through OnDemand. And of course we need 50 channels of music, of which people maybe listen to 10 consistently... country, rock, hip hop, adult alternative, alternative, classic rock, oldies rock, jazz, Disney Radio and big band. I'm willing to put money on it.

All I ask for is choice.

Your User Name:

02-28-06, 11:36 AM

Yeah, I hear you. But at the end of the day, there is nothing right now that I'm sitting at home wishing was in HD. My frustration stems more from decisions by ESPN, for example, to not broadcast some of the games shown on ESPN-HD in HD, not the channels that Comcast offers.

Frazee

03-02-06, 12:35 PM

Has Dish started broadcasting locals in HD yet? The last I heard from a CSR was that it was supposed to go live 3-2.

DP1

03-02-06, 12:52 PM

Has Dish started broadcasting locals in HD yet? The last I heard from a CSR was that it was supposed to go live 3-2.

Apparently so.. but of the Big 4 Networks they're otherwise offering in general, KUSA is missing at the moment over a dispute over carriage with Gannet. Not just KUSA but their other affiliates around the country too.

On a Comcast related note, I'm reading where the newest software for the Comcast DVR boxes around the country is disabling the 30 sec skip feature.

Dont think we have that version here yet (10.10).. although I havent used the DVR for a couple days.. kinda sucks they've done that though. Course I'm not sure everyone was using that feature anyway because with many of the remotes they gave out it didnt have that option to begin with.. but if you're using a universal remote with certain codes you were able to have that function.

HDNair

03-02-06, 07:10 PM

captainjy

03-02-06, 08:08 PM

Well, I sent an email to Comcast telling them that I'll switch to Dish if they don't add more HD channels to their lineup soon, which may not be entirely true just yet, but it doesn't hurt to put pressure on them. I'd suggest others take a minute to do the same... it may not do much good, but like I said, it wouldn't hurt.

Switching to Dish is something I'll have to strongly consider now. Their HD options puts Comcast to shame. I only have a 32" LCD so I'm not going to be bothered as much by HD Lite as people with larger televisions. And from what I understand they're not doing it as much as Directv anyway. I'll have to do some research though since they do require an up front financial commitment on DVRs and probably a contract.

None the less, I hope this puts some heat on Comcast at the very least. I get the feeling it won't, but anything that might is a good thing. They still have a monopoly on the Altitude HD feeds (other than Champion Broadband which isn't available in my area). But the overwhelming superiority of Dish's HD options might outweigh that, now that they've got locals. Plus, there's probably a much better chance that Dish will pick up the Altitude HD feed than Comcast coming close to matching Dish's HD lineup.

You know what, I agree. We have only been with Comcast now for about 2 and half months and quite frankly, I am a little surprised how little they have done. I know that 2.5 months is not a lot of time, but they haven't announced anything at all other than a Panasonic and Samsung DVR which, according to popular belief, won't even see the light of day. Tivo for Comcast sounds great, but the reality is that the Tivo software is going to be on a very quirky 6412 unit. Price is really all that Comcast has to offer. We got Internet and HD/DVR/HBO for $85 a month on a promotion, but other than that, there HD lineup, IMO, is terrible. As many here have mentioned, INHD just plain sucks. So I think that when D* and E* start offering local HD, we are leaving. We may even go to Qwest for Internet.

Frazee

03-03-06, 08:52 AM

I switched from Dish to C* when they offered locals in HD, but only getting 4 channels in HD on C* compared to what Dish offers means I'm switching back as soon as channel 9 goes live. I wouldn't mind staying with C*, but when the only thing they offer about expanding their service is "that it's planned", well I plan to retire "someday" too. The only good experience I've had with C* is their internet service.

acex2

03-03-06, 10:44 AM

With my Comcast Basic Package I was getting all the local HD channels with great quality through my new JVC TV built in tuners, now CBS has a signal of 35-40, (not watchable).
All the other locals HD channels are fine.
Whats the deal here, did something change?
CBS is on digital channel 18-1.
Has anybody else seen this issue. I've noticed this for 2 weeks or so.

Chiahead

03-03-06, 01:28 PM

HDNair

03-04-06, 06:11 PM

Has anyone heard anything about FiOS becoming available in the Denver area, or is that just a pipe dream for the near future?

dr_mal

03-05-06, 12:33 AM

Pipe dream. Unless Verizon were to suddenly buy Qwest.

BobLikesHDTV

03-05-06, 11:16 AM

Has anyone heard anything about FiOS becoming available in the Denver area, or is that just a pipe dream for the near future?

Qwest Choice TV is now available in parts of Lone Tree and Highlands Ranch. If they are able to do this for a rate comparable to Comcast, with HDTV and a superior SD picture, they will clean Comcast's clock.

http://www.qwest.com/residential/products/tv/index.html
http://www.qwest.com/residential/products/tv/features.html

From their web site:

Qwest Choice™ TV Services

Features
Qwest Choice TV is the latest in high-quality home entertainment, offering more value than any cable service. You have more channels, more service, more extras. Three TVs and more than 200 digital channels—all for the price of analog cable. Plus save more when you bundle all your Qwest services.

Innovative Phone Features
Only with Qwest Choice TV, can you integrate popular calling features such as Caller ID and Voice Mail so you can see who's calling while watching TV.*

Full Channel Line Up
Experience 100% digital television programming with sharper pictures and CD-quality sound. Choose from over 200 all-digital channels including your favorite premium movie channels such as HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, STARZ! and more. Plus, enjoy instant access to current box office hits with 66 Pay-Per-View channels right from your remote control.

Pay-Per-View
Watch the latest box-office hits, national and regional sports and special events in the comfort of your own home with exclusive Pay-Per-View movies starting at just $3.99. Forget about buying tickets and paying late fees. With Qwest Choice TV you'll enjoy the convenience and choice of programming.

Availability
Qwest Choice TV is currently available in sections of Highlands Ranch and the City of Lone Tree, located south of Denver and in parts of the Phoenix Metro area.

Installation
Qwest provides professional standard installation for up to three televisions connected to existing cable TV outlets. Standard installation includes wiring the Qwest Digital Gateway box on the existing phone line as well as connecting your VCR or DVD player at one primary viewing location.

More About Qwest Choice TV:
+ Allows for viewing on three TVs with three remotes (at no additional charge)

+ Customizable program guide for convenient program scheduling and recording

+ Full suite of parental controls to have more supervision over what children watch

Professional installation
No converter box necessary; one Residential Gateway at your main TV viewing location will support three TVs

*Integrated calling features require separately available subscription to Qwest Caller ID and/or Voice Mail.

HDJello

03-05-06, 12:45 PM

Qwest Choice TV is now available in parts of Lone Tree and Highlands Ranch. If they are able to do this for a rate comparable to Comcast, with HDTV and a superior SD picture, they will clean Comcast's clock.

I wish they would be able to do this, but I'm not too optimistic. There is currently no HD in the lineup, and they haven't expanded their coverage area beyond Lone Tree and Highlands Rach in a long time.

I'm not too optimistic of Qwest being acquired by AT&T (formergly SBC, which has lightspeed) or Verizon (which has FIOS) on the near-term either. I think the drawback there is that the "territory" covers a lot of rural areas and not so much urban/suburban areas, and the latter is the higher profit areas that would make an acquisition attractive.

I hope I'm wrong in one of these areas. I think cable could more than adquately meet the challenge of providing quality and quantity HD, but I'm not so sure they will, at least until there is some better competition in this regard.

weldon

03-06-06, 01:18 AM

Now that AT&T is making a play for BellSouth, I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon were to go after Qwest. Maybe Nacchio's exit would help this as well. But...

even if Verizon does buy/merge with Qwest, I wouldn't expect to see FIOS offered in this area anytime soon.

BobLikesHDTV

03-06-06, 10:11 AM

I wish they would be able to do this, but I'm not too optimistic. There is currently no HD in the lineup, and they haven't expanded their coverage area beyond Lone Tree and Highlands Rach in a long time.

I'm not too optimistic of Qwest being acquired by AT&T (formergly SBC, which has lightspeed) or Verizon (which has FIOS) on the near-term either.

The person asked and I gave an answer. Maybe he/she is in Highlands Ranch or Lone Tree. The profile doesn't say.

There is not a chance that AT&T will be allowed to buy Qwest, and I rather doubt they'll be allowed to buy BellSouth, a deal which was announced the other day.

There is a standing federal court order (the AT&T breakup), and I don't see the Courts reversing themselves on this. Monopoly is still in nobody's interest but the shareholders.

cjh404

03-06-06, 04:28 PM

BobLikesHDTV

03-07-06, 01:53 PM

How would it be a monopoly? Things are a lot different than they were in 1984. The cable co's can now offer internet and voice. There is also competition from cell phone providers. And bellsouth and at&t are not in the same service areas. I just don't see how you would consider it to be a monopoly. I mean if at&t were to merge with comcast or time warner then there would be some monopolistic concerns, but bellsouth and at&t is a whole different animal that will most likely get approved.
I don't think at&t or verizon will go after qwest. Qwest has a lot of problems and I don't think it would be worth it to go after them. I think they will either stay by themselves or slowly be sold off piece by piece.

They will control roughly 1/3 of all landline service in the country. The court said in 1984 that they could not do that. If they didn't see it as a way to generate more revenue than they could as two separate companies, they wouldn't be doing it.

The question is, other than by eliminating 10,000 employees, how can they generate more revenue by doing this if they don't begin to monopolize markets.

There is also a type of business arrangement called monopolistic competition, in which only a few large players exist in a market and they, in effect, begin to set common prices and practices.

My question is, with SBC and AT&T being major innovators of technology, how does this merger impact the hardware that other providers may use, like Comcast? That, too, can have monopolistic effects.

ADent

03-07-06, 04:28 PM

I switched from Dish to C* when they offered locals in HD, but only getting 4 channels in HD on C* compared to what Dish offers means I'm switching back as soon as channel 9 goes live.

Reportedly KUSA-HD is live on Dish Network as of 3/3.

GutBomb

03-12-06, 03:17 PM

any idea why the avs game on InHD2 is a black screen with no audio? I live in lafayette

cooky

03-12-06, 03:27 PM

Got the same problem with the avs game. The other hd channels seem to be working fine and the pregame show came through on InHD2 till about 5 minutes till 1. Someone probly bumped the blackout switch.

GutBomb

03-12-06, 03:30 PM

I just called comcast and their tech support number had a short recording saying that the problems with the avs game are currently being repaired. no indication as to what it is

GutBomb

03-12-06, 04:04 PM

it's now active on InHD2 (channel 665)

JKM

03-12-06, 11:00 PM

I was assured by Comcast CSR last week that the Iowa & Acoma Comcast office had a "whole warehouse" of these replacement boxes and that I could swap there.

They've been wrong more than right on most such issues. Anyone else replace their box with this new one?

Issues? Experience with the Panasonic box?

thanks.

borgdaddy

03-14-06, 09:42 AM

So does anybody know if Comcast has these new boxes or not?

rmht

03-15-06, 12:48 AM

So does anybody know if Comcast has these new boxes or not?

Comcast is replacing defective 6412's with a new Motorola box described to me as an "all digital"??? from a CSR. After replacing one last week my feeling was PQ on SD was better. I am replacing my theater 6412 as it is locking up more and more. Curious to see the song and dance I will get as what the replacement will be. Have not heard of Pany boxes being an option but will ask specifically tomorrow.

wmarkw

03-15-06, 10:34 AM

So it appears that we will not be getting the first two games tomorrow in HD. Not a Comcast issue but I guess a Regional complaint. We get the OK game in JAX which is not broadcasting HD from that site and then the mid-morning game from Salt Lake UT which is also a non HD site. We do get to see AF vs ILL in HD.

Benzyl

03-15-06, 10:54 AM

Comcast is replacing defective 6412's with a new Motorola box described to me as an "all digital"??? from a CSR. After replacing one last week my feeling was PQ on SD was better. I am replacing my theater 6412 as it is locking up more and more. Curious to see the song and dance I will get as what the replacement will be. Have not heard of Pany boxes being an option but will ask specifically tomorrow.

The scoop is these are Motorola 3412 boxes, the are basically identical to 6412 except they do not have an analog tuner and the capability to encode analog signals on the DVR. Some parts of the city have been "upgraded" to have all the analog channels copied on digital channels ( Digitally Simulcast ). I expect that eventually most analog channels will be moved to digital to make more space for on-demand,HDTV,internet.

Here is a link on AVS for the 3412
Official Comcast 3412 & 3416 STB Discussion (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=604142)

The Pros:
All digital, so no recompress on the DVR
Same features as the 6412 (dual tuner etc...)

The Cons:
Technically an older box then the 6412 Series III
Haven't seen the quality of the new digital copies of the analog channels

I live near Downtown Littleton and I know we do not have the new Head-end Equipment around here for the 3412, but some parts of the city do.

Benzyl

bratboy

03-15-06, 11:31 AM

Well as far as boxes go I can put up with my phase II for now. Their slow and hinky but so far, as a rule, they have worked okay for me. The remote stalling is an annoyance but from what Ive seen/heard the replacements dont really offer improvement in that area.

Sadly at this point I hate to say it, since I hate sports, but sure wish the olympics were still going on so we had UHD. While Inhd2 was replaced with UHD I watched that channel more than I've watched inhd2 over the last yr. Was nice to see shows like Monk. Now were back to crappy Inhd2 which so dang rarely has a good movie, seems their big thing is the occational Imax titles & sports. I mean lets be honest Just how many friggin Sports themed HD channels do we really need right now? You have inhd which I NEVER watch, Inhd2 which is pretty sports oriented as well & ESPNHD. Heck I'd rather have NGHD even over the Inhd's.

gakon

03-15-06, 02:13 PM

John Boy

03-15-06, 03:00 PM

gakon

03-15-06, 03:54 PM

Dish has the old VOOM channels, which is how they have so many. You will not see HDNet on Comcast. You certainly can email them, but you'll get a canned response. Calling customer service might be more helpful, if you get a CSR willing to document your complaint (some aren't so helpful). Another option is to call the franchise authority listed at the bottom of your cable bill, and tell them that Comcast isn't giving you what you think you should be getting, especially since they've raised their rates.

wmarkw

03-15-06, 04:53 PM

For those who care, CBS will be showing games on standard CBS 4 and then the HD games on your respected HD carrier. This is good news for NCAA fans. Below is the HD line up. The SD game tomorrow morning is the regional game from JAX, OK vs Wisc-Milwk.
I called and talked to their programming manager and needless to say she is very competent and up to date on all aspects of HD programming. She also stated that all games are being shot in HD but broadcasted in either HD or SD. CBS Denver is also giving us the UCLA/Belmont game which would not be shown in our region and the normal programming will flip to Dr. Phil at that time. She called the necessary people at cbs sports and asked if she could broadcast the game, they said yes, and then asked if she can show it in HD and they said please do! I thought that was nice. Anyways…….
CBS4 KCNC-DT March Madness Schedule

The following are the TV listings on CBS4 KCNC-DT for the opening rounds of the NCAA men's basketball tournament games (these high-def games may be different from those on CBS4):

THURSDAY 3/16
10:20a -- Game 1 Wichita State vs Seton Hall
12:40p -- Game 2 Marquette vs Alabama
2:55p -- Game 3 UCLA vs Belmont
5:25p -- Game 4 Illinois vs Air Force
7:45p -- Game 5 Washington vs Utah State

FRIDAY 3/17
10:25a -- Game 1 Iowa vs Northwestern State
12:45p -- Game 2 West Virginia vs Southern Illinois
5:10p -- Game 3 Pittsburgh vs Kent State
7:30p -- Game 4 Kansas vs Bradley

DP1

03-15-06, 06:24 PM

If you want a little more HD, and you're not currently getting HBO, Comcast has a 3 month special going that provides the Digital Silver package for 49.99/month (vs. 76.99). This price includes HBO (and Encore, but that's not in HD). It's actually cheaper than the Digital Classic by itself. The special is valid for existing customers. I upgraded so that I could see the new episodes of the Sopranos. There is no obligation after that 3 months is over. If you're currently subscribed to Digital Classic to get HD, this is a great deal.

Another way to do it is call em and tell em you're fixin to bail and see what they can do. Thats what I did because I re-subbed with E* after a couple years and so I wanted to trim as much from Comcast as I could for the moment since I still want both providers for at least a lil while.

I used to sub to Digital Silver (plus the DVR). Now though they knocked 22.50 off the 42.49 standard cable (making it 19.99), for 6 months. Then I pay 9.95 for Digital Classic and they had a deal on HBO where you could get it for 9.99 a month for a year instead of the usual 15.99 a month. Found the HBO thing out when I switched from Cinemax to HBO for the Sopranos season.

So now, even with the 9.95 DVR fee I'm only paying 49.88 plus tax. I had been paying about 100.00 a month before. Digital Silver plus 2 DVR boxes. Turned one of the DVR boxes back in and that alone of course saved 16.90 (9.95+6.95 additional outlet) a month.

So that 50.00 I'm saving goes towards E*'s HD Bronze package which is 49.99 a month.

roller11

03-15-06, 06:40 PM

DP1

03-15-06, 06:45 PM

25 channels with HD content, but they aren't in HD.

How'd that 622 install go for ya, dude? That was 10 days ago and you said you'd be giving a report on what you were seeing.

captainjy

03-17-06, 02:33 PM

25 channels with HD content, but they aren't in HD.

Just wondering too how your install went? Judging by the comment, it would seem that it didn't go over too well.

GutBomb

03-18-06, 12:06 AM

Just wondering too how your install went? Judging by the comment, it would seem that it didn't go over too well.
he is just complaining that the 1080i channels are shown in a lower resolution ( 1280x1080 - still higher than 720p)

it's a typical complaint and he wouldn't even notice a picture difference if he had not been told by someone else that the resolution is lower. the picture still looks great. (alhtough he'll swear he can tell a difference)

N123

03-18-06, 05:59 PM

GutBomb

03-18-06, 08:36 PM

do you have a DCT6412 III (it will have the III on the front if you do)

if you don't, next time you exchange it, try to get the III. it has fa fewer problems than the previous revisions.

LXIX

03-18-06, 11:51 PM

25 channels with HD content, but they aren't in HD.

I am curious what brand, make and model TV do you have? You have been on the warpath about "HD-LIGHT" for as long as I can remember and I would like to know what display you own.

I think that many on this forum should be made aware of the fact that their TV may not be able to resolve anywhere near the 1920 pixels per line that you are asking DirecTV to provide.

Compression may be a compromise in PQ but there are 2 choices that D* and E* offer. E* delivers full 1080x1920 resolution (visit Sat guys or DBS talk) but it is at less than 12Mbps. This gives a noisy HD image. D* offers a cleaner signal but it is at a lower resolution that many HDTVs cannot resolve anyway.

Finally, it is possible that a display may introduce many image problems that are far worse than what E* and D* introduce. The resolution reduction that you talk about is limited to 1080i broadcasts (720p stays at 1280 pixels per line). A large majority of displays will only accept the first field (540 odd lines) and throw away the second field. This yields only half of what E* and D* can deliver anyway. I cannot blame E* and D* at looking toward compression when display manufacturers cheep-out and only gather half an HD broadcast.

So, lets see if your display is worthy of the lofty standards that you set for your video provider.

-Matt

BobLikesHDTV

03-19-06, 11:19 AM

Hello all,

Is anyone else having the following problem with the Motorola 6412?:

I have several active series recordings. When I look at the guide or the "scheduled recordings", I'll see the usual up to two shows set to record at a given time.

However, even though the guide and the "scheduled recordings" menu confirm that a particular show is going to be recorded (solid red-dot), the show is not recorded.

. . . furthermore, the guide will show that a program is being recorded, and the DVR will even be tuned to the correct channel, yet not be recording the program. In this case, I have to cancel the recording, and then reactivate the recording manually.

This is a major problem for me--I've already exchanged my Motorola 6412 twice, and the problem persists?

Any thoughts?,
Thanks,
N123

Try looking for a conflict with another program.

It may not even be at the same time as the program you want to record. Many shows on the cable channels (FX, USA) are repeated several times throughout a week. I've noticed that even if you set up a series recording for a program like Monk, to record only the Friday broadcast designating that it only record "new" and save only "One Program", it will still record every broadcast of Monk every time the "new" episode is shown throughout the week . It will not save only One Program. It will save them all.

They did a great job with the software over there at Comcrash.

My suggestion is that you cancel the series recording and then try to set it up again. The box will then tell you where the conflict is. If there is a conflict at some other time throughout the week, it will prevent you from recording it as a series. You will have to set it up to record on a week by week basis, like we do with several programs.

I've even done this and had it tell me there is no conflict, but it will still not make a series recording. So, we just cancel the series recording and go week by week and set it up to record.

Yes, it sucks.

captainjy

03-20-06, 04:18 AM

he is just complaining that the 1080i channels are shown in a lower resolution ( 1280x1080 - still higher than 720p)

it's a typical complaint and he wouldn't even notice a picture difference if he had not been told by someone else that the resolution is lower. the picture still looks great. (alhtough he'll swear he can tell a difference)

It's pretty typical for most of us to this. I am a net admin and if I tell people that the mail server got upgraded, immediately someone will say that mail seems to be running funky.

I am curious about Dish Network because we are wanting to make a switch from Comcast.

dr_mal

03-20-06, 09:37 AM

roller11

03-20-06, 09:45 AM

I am curious what brand, make and model TV do you have? You have been on the warpath about "HD-LIGHT" for as long as I can remember and I would like to know what display you own.

I think that many on this forum should be made aware of the fact that their TV may not be able to resolve anywhere near the 1920 pixels per line that you are asking DirecTV to provide.

Even on a 1280x720 set, there is a clear difference between CBS/NBC and
ABC/FOX (1920x1080 vs 1280x720).

Compression may be a compromise in PQ but there are 2 choices that D* and E* offer. E* delivers full 1080x1920 resolution (visit Sat guys or DBS talk) but it is at less than 12Mbps.

Incorrect, the locals are less than 1920x1080 on E*, i.e. they are not HD.
The other channels may or may not be 1920x1080, I have no way to tell.

Finally, it is possible that a display may introduce many image problems that are far worse than what E* and D* introduce. The resolution reduction that you talk about is limited to 1080i broadcasts (720p stays at 1280 pixels per line). A large majority of displays will only accept the first field (540 odd lines) and throw away the second field.

Incorrect, no displays 'throw away' one field making it a 1920x540 display.

This yields only half of what E* and D* can deliver anyway. I cannot blame E* and D* at looking toward compression when display manufacturers cheep-out and only gather half an HD broadcast.

Exactly the opposite is true, displays are migrating to 1920x1080, and have never
been 1920x540 as you claim.

So, lets see if your display is worthy of the lofty standards that you set for your video provider.

It goes without saying that my comments are based on a display that fully resolves a
HD image (i.e. 1920x1080). Namely, a 1920x1080 JVC LCOS set, also
my 1920x1200 Dell monitor.

roller11

03-20-06, 09:48 AM

To anyone who believes Dishnetwork's fraudulent claim
of 'locals in HD', check this out:
Saturday I had my Dish 622 installed. Naturally, the first
thing I did was to confirm/deny the rumors that the local digital
stations are not in HD.
Saturday Night Live: immediately, I saw that the actors faces
were soft, blurred. Darrel Hammonds suite had vetical lines that
were visibly stairstepped, jagged. Switch over to Comcast/OTA,
the same lines were crisp and bright and not jagged.
Cold CAse: For those who need more than a subjective impression,
check out the CBS eye decal on the screen. On the Comcast/OTA
side, the circles were thin and bright, distinct, perfectly smooth.
On the 622, they were dull and thick, and worse, they were aliased,
aka 'jagged', 'stairstepped'. There is only one cause of these
stairstepped curves, low resolution.
Interestingly, the CBS affiliate in L.A., KCBS HD ( I got a waiver)
was every bit as good as Comcast/OTA so at least one channel
on Dish is still in HD.
I don't know what resolution these digital locals are, but it is somewhere
between SD and HD, Certainly
not 1920x1080.

VOOM channels had a different type of degradation, they had
heavy motion artifacts, especially Equator HD. I watched
hundreds of hours of VOOM in 2004 and it's a damn shame what
Dishnetwork has done to these great channels. Dish has obviously
stolen bandwidth from these bit-starved channels to save
the cost of providing sufficient bandwidth via another satellite.

Today I called Dish and cancelled my service. I did this
despite the fact that I'm in a low bandwidth Comcast area
and Comcast has no HD here except a token 4 major networks.
So I'm without ESPN HD, Discovery HD, ESPN2 HD, etc. and will be
for at least one more year (the over/under for HD in Longmont
is March 30, 2007).

roller11

03-20-06, 09:57 AM

How'd that 622 install go for ya, dude? That was 10 days ago and you said you'd be giving a report on what you were seeing.

It was delayed because the installer didn't have the right video switch.
(I got a waiver for CBS L.A. which means I need to pick up 4 satellite
locations.)

Man, were you ever spot-on about Dish quality, especially about the obvious
degradation on equator hd. I couldn't agree more with your analysis.

DP1

03-20-06, 10:56 AM

It was delayed because the installer didn't have the right video switch.
(I got a waiver for CBS L.A. which means I need to pick up 4 satellite
locations.)

I hear ya. I've had a 622 about a week now.. after using the new non DVR 211 for about a month. When I got the 622 authorized I also went ahead and subbed to the HD Locals just to check them out. Theres no question they're a littlet bit softer than the OTA versions. But thats not to be confused (at least in my mind) with the masses who've never seen OTA, or wouldnt have super critical eyes, thinking they dont look wonderful if that was their first look at Local/Network HD signals. Again, sooooo much of it has to do with ones display anyway.. not only the resolution capabilities but the distance one sits from it.

I sit 11' from a 100" diaganol 16x9 screen. Hell the large setting PIP window from the second tuner at that size is prolly as big as some peoples main display sitting at that same distance.

As far as the V* channels, it's well documented that they're 1280x1080. Now it's been said that it has to do with the link between E* and V*. Perhaps thats true, but the question is well it ever be resolved or will E* just figure that they're good enough as is. Even so, I have no qualms about watching those channels (some look better than others depending on the channels and/or the particular content).. I just write it off as a "shame".

Now the mainstream channels like the 2 HDNets, Uni-HD, Disc HD, 2 ESPN's etc, which are still at full resolution look great to my eyes.

For me the bottomline is I'll just keep my options open and not proclaim anyone the clear cut champion for years to come. I have no "brand" loyalty to any of these people.

At the moment, while it's a "shame" that not all of E*'s HD channels look as good as they could look, it's also a "shame" that Comcast doesnt offer enough HD channels to begin with. To my way of thinking anway.

In general I feel Comcast has done me right over the 2 years I decided to use them as my main provider. Now to me based on what I'm looking for they've become secondary and we'll see what another year or 2 brings.

LXIX

03-20-06, 11:06 AM

Incorrect, the locals are less than 1920x1080 on E*, i.e. they are not HD.
The other channels may or may not be 1920x1080, I have no way to tell.

If you cannot tell what the resolution is from the national channels, how do you know what the resolution is from the locals? Are you A/B comparing their broadcast to your ATSC tuners? Do you have some software/a receiver that can tell you the resolution?

Incorrect, no displays 'throw away' one field making it a 1920x540 display.

I beg to differ. There are many CRT displays that are 540p as opposed to 1080i. In addition, there are many displays that claim 1080p resolution (many DLP TV's) but they will not capture the first field of 540, buffer it then capture the second field to create a progressive 1080 image. They merely capture the first field, scale it to 1080 and repeat it 2 times to create 1 frame. You can say that this isn't true, but Home Theater Magazine just did an article about this and tested many displays. Many of their top advertisers failed to capture a both fields of data. But I guess that they are incorrect as well.

Exactly the opposite is true, displays are migrating to 1920x1080, and have never
been 1920x540 as you claim.

Migrating is the operative word. These displays represent an insignificant percentage of the current displays in operation. I am simply saying that the vast majority of displays in homes today cannot resolve a full 1080x1920 signal. If a broadcaster needs to compromise their signal in order to add additional channels, I would rather they cut res. and not introduce motion artifacts.

It goes without saying that my comments are based on a display that fully resolves a
HD image (i.e. 1920x1080). Namely, a 1920x1080 JVC LCOS set, also
my 1920x1200 Dell monitor.

I am a big fan of LCoS/HD-ILA/SXRD displays and am glad that you have purchased a JVC. I have no way of knowing if your display can accept and properly I/P convert the image. In the Home Theater Mag article they did not test a JVC 1080p display. They did test 702p/768p displays and they would accept a 1080i signal and properly I/P convert the image. I would assume that the JVC 1080p displays are no different.

-Matt

LXIX

03-20-06, 11:24 AM

Hey, I'm not roller's biggest fan, but I do know that when I first got HD from D* (2001) it really popped. The quality was amazing. Over the last few years, it's been gradually slipping towards what I can only call DVD quality. I know my 7" CRT guns can't do a full 1920x1080, but I know what I see. OTA CBS *still* pops so it's not my eyes.

Me, I'm looking forward to switching to Comcast and getting full bandwidth HDTV again. I wouldn't expect the Comcasters to be down on someone for promoting full HD quality, since Comcast (and the non-multicasting OTA stations *cough*KUSA, I'm talking to you*cough*) is the only place to get full HD quality. :confused:

I in no way intended to question what you see on your TV Dr_Mal, you and Ernie Sanetella are 2 of the contributors to the AVSForum that I respect the most. I am simply questioning what Roller11 states, to make sure that HE is actually seeing what he is saying. Many contributors to this forum spout off at the mouth about problems that they have never really seen. Now that Roller11 has answered me, I have no reason to question what he sees.

As to what you are seeing on your display. I am not an expert when it comes to converting/compressing an MPEG2 image but I have to imagine that aside from reductions in resolution and the introduction of artifacts it may be possible to reduce the greyscale/ compress the contrast of the image to save space.

I would argue that the reason so many of you see a difference in image quality from D* and E* is because they significantly reduce greyscale. This would make all colors look less saturated and they might loose their "pop."

I look at lots of LCD displays that produce 1080pX1920 and have compared them to plasma displays that produce only 720x1080 and 480xi854 resolution. The plasma picture seems to pop more than the LCD. The contrast and greyscale of plasma always impress me more than the added resolution of the LCD. Just my opinion.

-Matt

captainjy

03-20-06, 04:56 PM

DP1

03-20-06, 06:22 PM

Roller,
Thanks for the input. What a bummer! I was really hoping to hear better news. So either way, we are screwed- you stay with Comcast and watch Discovery HD with a few local channels in between or go to E*, get 25 lite HD channels.

Well lets not exaggerate by saying all 25 HD are Lite.. While the V* channels are 1280x1080 and 2 of the Locals (CBS/NBC) are like 1440x1080i (so say those that have the equip to measure it), the rest of the channels arent HD lite.

HDNet, HDNet Movies, TNT-HD, Universal HD, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, Discovery HD, HBO, Showtime etc are still full resolution on E*.

roller11

03-21-06, 12:43 AM

If you cannot tell what the resolution is from the national channels, how do you know what the resolution is from the locals?

As i said in my post, i don't have the res values, but i observe that locals
are less than 1920x1080.

Are you A/B comparing their broadcast to your ATSC tuners?

did you read my post? my whole point was that i did an A/B comparison
of Comcast/ OTA/ Dish. To be fair to Dish, I used the HDMI port for
Dish, component cables for Comcast.

Migrating is the operative word. These displays represent an insignificant percentage of the current displays in operation. I am simply saying that the vast majority of displays in homes today cannot resolve a full 1080x1920 signal.

This has nothing to do with the issue. Dish poor P/Q is what it is whether the
number is 1 or 1 million full res sets.

If a broadcaster needs to compromise their signal in order to add additional channels, I would rather they cut res. and not introduce motion artifacts.

why should we have to choose which bad thing we will tolerate?
VOOM had both full res and no artifacts.

I am a big fan of LCoS/HD-ILA/SXRD displays and am glad that you have purchased a JVC. I have no way of knowing if your display can accept and properly I/P convert the image.

You don't get it. i didn't test the Dish in a vacuum, I side-by-side tested it
against Comcast and OTA. so the implementation details of the TV are
irrelevent since all three used the same display.

In the Home Theater Mag article they did not test a JVC 1080p display. They did test 702p/768p displays and they would accept a 1080i signal and properly I/P convert the image. I would assume that the JVC 1080p displays are no different.

Yes, of course the JVC deinterlaces and converts 1080 i to 1080p, as
do All displays, your strange "some sets thow away half the fields' statement
not withstanding.

LXIX

03-21-06, 08:04 AM

As i said in my post, i don't have the res values, but i observe that locals
are less than 1920x1080.

So, am I to assume that you waited for an SMPTE resolution chart from the broadcaster in order to conduct your resolution evaluation or did you simply look at 2 HD broadcasts and say "Dish sure looks different than the over-the-air and cable broadcast?"

You are seeing a difference but you cannot say with any certainty that it is a resolution reduction. It may be a reduction in greyscale or some other compression artifact.

did you read my post? my whole point was that i did an A/B comparison
of Comcast/ OTA/ Dish. To be fair to Dish, I used the HDMI port for
Dish, component cables for Comcast.

I did read your post. I merely asked how you came to your resolution figures. By the way, this evaluation criteria proves to me that this was not a true A/B comparison. You may prefer the way that the JVC processes the signal vs. the unprocessed signal over HDMI. It may also be an issue were the 1080i output from the dish box originated as a 720p signal. If this is the case, then you may prefer the way that the JVC upconverts 720p content.

I am not saying that your evaluation is flawed or that you are foolish for what you saw. I am merely trying to find out were the difference are coming from.

This has nothing to do with the issue. Dish poor P/Q is what it is whether the
number is 1 or 1 million full res sets.

why should we have to choose which bad thing we will tolerate?
VOOM had both full res and no artifacts.

I hate to break it to you, but even Comcast is sacrificing PQ for their customers. It may not be the HD channels but their NTSC originated content is sure below "broadcast quality!" I would happily take the quality of a DISH TNT, NBC, HBO or any other NTSC originated program over what Comcast gives. So please make sure that you state ALL the facts when you choose to bash a down resed service.

You don't get it. i didn't test the Dish in a vacuum, I side-by-side tested it
against Comcast and OTA. so the implementation details of the TV are
irrelevent since all three used the same display.

Um.... Okay??

Yes, of course the JVC deinterlaces and converts 1080 i to 1080p, as
do All displays, your strange "some sets thow away half the fields' statement
not withstanding.

You can try to belittle me by calling this "mine." But the facts are all I am concerned about. Did you bother to read the Home Theater Magazine article? Uh, probably not because it isn't in the AVSFORUM, your only resource for information. Since you need the info to be from THIS site, here is a link to "Tested and Failed: throwing away half the resolution." This was in the plasma and LCD forum.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=608670

At this point, I am finished with you. As always, you have decided to take a tone that is belittling to attempt to bully me and others into your way of thinking.

-Matt

roller11

03-21-06, 12:17 PM

You are seeing a difference but you cannot say with any certainty that it is a resolution reduction. It may be a reduction in greyscale or some other compression artifact.

No, I *can* say that it is resolution reduction, not greyscale reduction.
The proof of this is in my post, try reading it.

I merely asked how you came to your resolution figures.

More proof that you didn't read my post.
If you had read my post, you would see that I did not site any resolution figures.

By the way, this evaluation criteria proves to me that this was not a true A/B comparison.

No, it *was* an A/B test. The only variable I worked was the provider variable.
Obviously, all other factors were the same.

You may prefer the way that the JVC processes the signal vs. the unprocessed signal over HDMI. It may also be an issue were the 1080i output from the dish box originated as a 720p signal. If this is the case, then you may prefer the way that the JVC upconverts 720p content.

None of this applies to my test methodology.

So please make sure that you state ALL the facts when you choose to bash a down resed service.

Why are you so hyper-defensive about Dish? Do you stand to gain if they
flourish? They SHOULD be bashed
when they mislead the public by claiming that they offer "locals in
HD". Do you think your local dairy could get away with adding 1/2 gallon
of water to each gallon of milk and then advertize it as "whole milk"?

As to your 'some guy said' evidence about sets "throw away half the fields" : of course it's possible
that somebody somewhere tested a set and found that half the fields
were missing. But this would be a manufacturing defect, not a design
blunder. NO tv is designed to eliminate half the fields which is what you implied.

roller11

03-21-06, 12:34 PM

Roller,
Thanks for the input. What a bummer! I was really hoping to hear better news. So either way, we are screwed- you stay with Comcast and watch Discovery HD with a few local channels in between or go to E*, get 25 lite HD channels. This is discouraging. I just wish that Comcast would add a couple more quality HD channels. I don't know about everyone else, but the 6412 unit is garbage and we often experience a problem where the sound kind of pops and there's a flash of pixelation on the screen. Anyhow, thanks again for the report. Wish it would have worked out better. I suppose the D* has the same issues?

After more testing , an update: I just compared "Desperate Housewives"
Comcast vs Dish. Again, a substantial degradation in PQ on the Dish side.
This is interesting because the program is broadcast in 1280x720 format.
So either the res of the locals is less than 1280 horizontal pixels (like 1024x1080,
for example), or, Dish is degraded for other reasons. Also, I watched "King of Queens" on KCBS L.A. on Dish. Again, it looked pretty bad despite the fact that
Coldcase looked good on Sunday night.

Finally, I just found another interesting fact: Contrary to what Dish says,
their boxes DO NOT have QAM tuning capability. So if you want to use the
"cable/8VSB" port to tune/record Comcast so you can downgrade
to their cheap service and still get HD channels, forget it, that won't work.

gakon

03-21-06, 02:02 PM

After more testing , an update: I just compared "Desperate Housewives" Comcast vs Dish. Again, a substantial degradation in PQ on the Dish sideIt appears that you are doing this via the DVR's. Is it possible that your Dish DVR has some setting that can improve (or reduce) the quality? I'm pretty sure the 6412 does not, but I remember an old TiVo had the capability to record shows at a lower rate or with less resolution, to take up less space.

This is interesting because the program is broadcast in 1280x720 format. So either the res of the locals is less than 1280 horizontal pixels (like 1024x1080, for example), or, Dish is degraded for other reasons. I don't understand this. Well, I understand the part about fewer horizontal pixels, but how would you expect to have more vertical pixels (1080, vs 576, which would give the correct aspect for 1024 vertical pixels)?

roller11

03-22-06, 09:00 AM

It appears that you are doing this via the DVR's. Is it possible that your Dish DVR has some setting that can improve (or reduce) the quality?

No, there is no adjustment at all except for the usual aspect ratio correction. Any visual changes must be done at the TV set.

I don't understand this. Well, I understand the part about fewer horizontal pixels, but how would you expect to have more vertical pixels (1080, vs 576, which would give the correct aspect for 1024 vertical pixels)?

The vertical lines must be fixed at 1080 to give the proper sync timing, so
Dish has no option of degrading in the Y direction. But there is no lower limit
in the x direction, they could go down to 1x1080...to save bandwidth. Better to
degrade res than spend money putting up another satellite.

One bad design aspect about the 622 box...there is no mute or volume
control on the box, so you can't mute the sound or change volume. This is a serious
design blunder and the only box I know with this defect.

gakon

03-22-06, 10:28 AM

The vertical lines must be fixed at 1080 to give the proper sync timing, so Dish has no option of degrading in the Y direction. But there is no lower limit in the x direction, they could go down to 1x1080...to save bandwidth. Better to
degrade res than spend money putting up another satellite. So how does DISH fill the 1080 pixels with information from a 720p source? Could their upconvert be part of the problem? And Echostar XI is on the way next year. No word on XII yet, but they're averaging a little less than 1 per year.
One bad design aspect about the 622 box...there is no mute or volume control on the box, so you can't mute the sound or change volume. This is a serious design blunder and the only box I know with this defect.Yeah, but for those of us who turn off our 6412's, the "mute" feature can be a little annoying. I know Comcast tells us to leave the box on, but I have trouble leaving it on all the time, since it never stops buffering. That has got to eat into the life of the hard drive. As far as the 622, I assume you don't mean an actual mute button on the box itself, correct? Does the 622's remote allow you to just control the TV's volume, like the 6412's remote?

milehighmike

03-22-06, 05:15 PM

By Roller 11:
Finally, I just found another interesting fact: Contrary to what Dish says,
their boxes DO NOT have QAM tuning capability. So if you want to use the
"cable/8VSB" port to tune/record Comcast so you can downgrade
to their cheap service and still get HD channels, forget it, that won't work.

To the best of my knowledge, E* does not make this claim. Why would E* provide a box that would allow reception of its competitor - Comcast - via QAM? Please provide your cite for this statement.

HDNair

03-22-06, 06:42 PM

Would it help to start e-mailing Comcast about their lack of HD channels? INHD and INHD2 is a joke. What do we have 5 non-premium channels. Would really like to get ESPN2HD and HDNET like I had with D*. I understand that Dish has a lot more HD avaiable , 25 ??

It would probably only help if lots of people did it. I did it and I was insulted by the response. Not that the tone of the response was insulting, but it was obvious that the CSR who replied either didn't bother to read what I had to say, didn't care what I had to say, or was too stupid to understand what I had to say. I'm still sticking with Comcast for now... maybe through the end of the NHL season. But I'm also thinking about switching to Dish in the summer. I only have a 32" television so I don't think I'd be bothered by "HD lite"... I would assume the PQ is still markedly better than DVDs. And Dish offers simply offers better content (HDNet Movies is what I'm really after). Crap in eye popping 1920x1080 resolution is still crap.

roller11

03-22-06, 07:03 PM

So how does DISH fill the 1080 pixels with information from a 720p source? Could their upconvert be part of the problem?

I assume they upconvert. The upconvert is scaled, so it shouldn't be the problem.
Consider that 720P channels on Comcast look great even though Comcast is
upconverting just as is E*.

And Echostar XI is on the way next year. No word on XII yet, but they're averaging a little less than 1 per year.

E* has added Sats all along, and yet their PQ/res/bandwidth has degraded, so I
doubt if these Sats will mean better PQ.

As far as the 622, I assume you don't mean an actual mute button on the box itself, correct?

Right, I'm refering to the remote.

Does the 622's remote allow you to just control the TV's volume, like the 6412's remote?

Yes, one can control the TV's volume with the 622 remote. But if you are using
a seperate sound amp, the TV's speaker will always be off anyway so that doesn't help anything. I just can't understand how there can be such a design blunder
(not being able to control the volume),
especially since all other E* boxes have volume control/mute. Mute/volume should be standard, a given on any box.

roller11

03-22-06, 07:12 PM

By Roller 11:

To the best of my knowledge, E* does not make this claim. Why would E* provide a box that would allow reception of its competitor - Comcast - via QAM? Please provide your cite for this statement.

page 108 of the owners manual:

If you want to receive channels from an off-air antenna or cable in addition to
your satellite receiver programming, ...

also, :
The 8vsb TV antenna/Cable port (622 on rear panel) can be used to receive and view programming on the TV from an off-air antenna or cable service.

HDJello

03-22-06, 10:00 PM

Consider that 720P channels on Comcast look great even though Comcast is
upconverting just as is E*.

Comcast does not upconvert 720p. The 720p signals get sent through as 720p, and the 1080i signals get sent through at 1080i. On my second TV I just have the cable going into the TV, and the set reports 720p on KMGH-DT and KDVR-DT, and 1080i and KCNC-DT, KWGN-DT, KUSA-DT, and KRMA-DT.

Now the Moto box does not have a pass-through setting, so it will either output 1080i or 720p; that setting is not in the standard end-user menus though. Mine is normally set to 1080i (the "native" mode of my living room set) but the upconvert isn't that great. For the super bowl, I changed the setting to 720p and let the TV do the upconvert and the picture was noticably better.

HDJello

03-22-06, 10:02 PM

page 108 of the owners manual:

If you want to receive channels from an off-air antenna or cable in addition to
your satellite receiver programming, ...

also, :
The 8vsb TV antenna/Cable port (622 on rear panel) can be used to receive and view programming on the TV from an off-air antenna or cable service.
It probably can receive NTSC on cable frequencies, but not QAM.

Frazee

03-23-06, 08:58 AM

Frazee

03-23-06, 09:14 AM

It would probably only help if lots of people did it. I did it and I was insulted by the response. Not that the tone of the response was insulting, but it was obvious that the CSR who replied either didn't bother to read what I had to say, didn't care what I had to say, or was too stupid to understand what I had to say. I'm still sticking with Comcast for now... maybe through the end of the NHL season. But I'm also thinking about switching to Dish in the summer. I only have a 32" television so I don't think I'd be bothered by "HD lite"... I would assume the PQ is still markedly better than DVDs. And Dish offers simply offers better content (HDNet Movies is what I'm really after). Crap in eye popping 1920x1080 resolution is still crap.

I have called and emailed, and all I've received is their token canned prepared response that has nothing to to with the question asked. What sticks in my craw is that what I'm paying for, others can receive many more HD channels, all I'm getting are the 4 token locals.

Lately the PQ and audio have been bad, lots of pixelation and no sound for several seconds.

roller11

03-23-06, 10:27 AM

Comcast does not upconvert 720p. The 720p signals get sent through as 720p, and the 1080i signals get sent through at 1080i. On my second TV I just have the cable going into the TV, and the set reports 720p on KMGH-DT and KDVR-DT, and 1080i and KCNC-DT, KWGN-DT, KUSA-DT, and KRMA-DT.

Yes, of course this is correct. I use CapsDVHS which gives a readout of whichever
clear station is being recorded, including res, vsync rate, bitrate...it verifies
your statement. Perhaps this is one cause of Satellite being so inferior to
Cable.

roller11

03-23-06, 10:35 AM

I have called and emailed, and all I've received is their token canned prepared response that has nothing to to with the question asked. What sticks in my craw is that what I'm paying for, others can receive many more HD channels, all I'm getting are the 4 token locals.

And it will continue to be that way for at least another year, maybe longer. BTW,
I read an article on the www about "the bandwidth crunch" and a C* exec was quoted saying that only one percent of C* subs are in a 'low bandwidth' area.
So Longmont is in the bottom one percent of C* footprint.

Lately the PQ and audio have been bad, lots of pixelation and no sound for several seconds.

Here, the PQ has been as good as always, and since we live in the same neighborhood, we should be getting the same thing. If you are having problems, I would look into the possibility that there is something wrong with your box.

roller11

03-23-06, 10:39 AM

FYI: from Dish CSR:

The resolution of the channel depends on what resolution they are being provided to us in. Most are 720p, especially the locals. The only thing that changes when we get them is that we compress them to MPEG4 so that we can fit more channels in our bandwidth. This has nothing to do with the resolution as the receiver simply decompresses the signal. The 211 and the 622 both support 480i/720p/1080i.

LOL! This only proves what we already know...the CSRs are trained to reguritate the
company line. For one thing, the MPEG 4 Codecs are not available on the transmission end, so all channels are currently MPEG2, not 4. Not to mention the
fact that DISh PQ is visibly inferior to Comcast and OTA.

milehighmike

03-23-06, 11:01 AM

Roller11:

You need to re-read page 108 of your user manual:

If you want to receive channels from an off-air antenna or cable in addition to your satellite receiver programming, connect the off-air antenna/cable into your TV distribution
equipment.
• The 8VSB TV Antenna/Cable In on your receiver's back panel can be used to receive
and view programming on the nearby TV from an off-air antenna or cable service.
• Connect a VHF/UHF off-air antenna to the 8VSB TV Antenna/Cable port. Peel off the
black sticker and affix it to the cable close to where it connects to the back of the
receiver. The stickers are inside the front cover of this guide.

Please note that the port is referred to as an 8VSB port. Also please note the term "off-air" in the phrase "off-air antenna/cable". It would have been more lengthy, but the phrase could have been written "off-air antenna/off-air cable". There is not one single reference to QAM in the 622 Manual.

Frazee

03-23-06, 12:36 PM

Here, the PQ has been as good as always, and since we live in the same neighborhood, we should be getting the same thing. If you are having problems, I would look into the possibility that there is something wrong with your box.

Thought about that, and I'm already on my third box.....

dr_mal

03-23-06, 01:15 PM

Most are 720p, especially the locals.
Huh? AFAIK, only Disney (ABC/ESPN) and Fox do 720p. All other HD channels are 1080i. I wouldn't trust that CSR too far when basics like original channel resolution appear to be foreign concepts.

uzziah

03-23-06, 02:56 PM

i live in boulder and have comcast basic. what sort of qam tuner, or what have you can i use to get hdtv (and sdtv as well if possible) on my infocus 4805?

pvr functionality would also be nice

roller11

03-23-06, 04:12 PM

Roller11:

You need to re-read page 108 of your user manual:
Please note that the port is referred to as an 8VSB port.

No, it's referred to as a "8vsb/cable" port" Says so right on the connector on the
rear panel, and in the manual.

Also please note the term "off-air" in the phrase "off-air antenna/cable". It would have been more lengthy, but the phrase could have been written "off-air antenna/off-air cable".

By definition, there's no such thing as "off-air cable".
The manual specifically says "cable provider". That doesn't mean "free OTA".

There is not one single reference to QAM in the 622 Manual.

Doesn't need to. To mention "QAM" would be redundant since cable is QAM.
Just like if you are talking 'digital OTA' there's no need to add 8VSB

roller11

03-23-06, 04:15 PM

Thought about that, and I'm already on my third box.....

Perhaps you should call C* about this, maybe it's a bad cable or connector in your
yard. I watch hours of C* every night and I have seen no degradation as of
Mar. 23.. so it isn't a universal problem.

milehighmike

03-23-06, 04:40 PM

LXIX

03-23-06, 08:05 PM

Roller11,

The "cable" referred to is for something like a CATV system for an apartment complex. The port is not labeled 8VSB/QAM. And no, cable does not equate to QAM.

Go to the spec sheet for the DiV 622 DVR on E*'s web site. It clearly states the port is

You are so argumentative, but you are also so wrong!

Mike, you are correct about QAM. I have a Samsung second generation HDTV tuner that is compatible with 3 or four different cable systems, but isn't a QAM tuner. There is no reason that a cable provider couldn't simply re-modulate an ATSC signal on their cable service.

Keep in mind that things like facts cannot get in the way of a Roller11 post.

gakon

03-23-06, 10:08 PM

Keep in mind that things like facts cannot get in the way of a Roller11 post.Yeah, but statements like this aren't productive either. IMO, roller11's been a lot more reasonable than in some of our earlier exchanges. Still argumentative, but we all know that. I think you guys have presented your facts and that's about the best you can do.

roller11

03-24-06, 03:31 PM

Roller11,

The "cable" referred to is for something like a CATV system for an apartment complex. The port is not labeled 8VSB/QAM. And no, cable does not equate to QAM.

OK, fair enough. Still, there is the language "cable provider" which would be assumed to be a Comcast/Cox etc., not "Peachtree apartments video distribution
cable ". So on a technicality, the docs are merely misleading.

You are so argumentative, but you are also so wrong!

On this issue, it could go either way. What other discussion have I been "wrong" about?

roller11

03-24-06, 03:37 PM

Keep in mind that things like facts cannot get in the way of a Roller11 post.

Oh, like the "fact" that many HDTV sets are really 1920x540 resolution because
they are designed to throw away half the fields?
BTW, I read the mag article you referenced. No where in that article was there
any statement that even suggested that some HD displays are designed
to eliminate half the scan lines of a frame as per your claim. 1080i/p means
1080 scanlines per frame, not 540 lines.

roller11

03-24-06, 03:49 PM

Contrary to the Docs, Dish 622 receiver records three progs at once, check it out:

I tried recording
KCNC digital via the OTA port, (NCAA basketball)
KCNC digital from sat on 6331 (NCAA basketball)
Ultra HD from sat
...all at the same time. In addition, I played back a pre recorded prog while these
three were recording. Of course only two of these three progs are in HD, but I would bet that
it could do three HD progs, like if I had substituted, say, KCBS L.A. for KCNC channel
6331.

Of course MileHiMike will probably came back and say "the manual clearly states that
the 622 can record three programs at once, while playing back a prerecorded prog."
And I''ll say "where"? and he'll say something like "the manual meant three
although it said two, just a matter of wording"

milehighmike

03-24-06, 04:29 PM

Roller11,

Please don't push anyone's buttons. The purpose of this thread is not to be confrontational. It's here to exchange ideas, facts, etc. I believe I was correct regarding the QAM issue, you acknowledged it, I agree the wording in the Dish documentation could be made more clear, etc. If you did what you did per you last post, I'll take your word for it.

roller11

03-25-06, 04:53 PM

I believe I was correct regarding the QAM issue, you acknowledged it, I agree the wording in the Dish documentation could be made more clear, etc. If you did what you did per you last post, I'll take your word for it.

Agreed. It hadn't occured to me that "cable" could be mean a video distribution network.
Sorry about that last post, I should have reported my "3 vs 2 recordings at the same time" finding and let it go at that. No sense in faning the flames for no reason.

boxer7890

03-28-06, 04:21 PM

Does anyone have the QAM channel listings for Comcast in the Brighton area? I don't have digital service with comcast, just the standard package. The list posted by 73rian is not acurate for me. (although the network stations are correct)

If not, I'll have to create a list myself.
Thanks

mayest

03-28-06, 07:27 PM

HDJello

03-29-06, 05:17 PM

I got a letter today saying that I have to upgrade to a digital box to ensure that I will still receive premium channels "like HBO and Cinemax." In my case, that isnt true since I only have 1 TV and a 6412. However, it makes me wonder if HBO will finally be available on a digital tier only. If so, that would free up a little bandwidth, right? Maybe we will be getting another HD channel soon.

There was no deadline given, but it appears that they are trying to get everybody to upgrade to digital.
This could be good news. On my system in Boulder, there are two premium channels in analog, HBO (14) and Cinemax (16), and the two channels are also in the digital range as well, per the guide. So if they relegated these to digital-only, they could add 4 HD channels in that capacity. I wouldn't mind seeing TNT-HD, NG-HD, ESPN2-HD, and UHD, for example.

Why do I fear we would instead get more religious, shopping, and other SD channels instead?

cjh404

03-30-06, 09:15 PM

BobLikesHDTV

03-31-06, 10:26 AM

Also since one of the OTA stations that comcast carries on basic cable changed to Telemundo, which they already carry they can also get rid of one of those. If you tune to 20 and 60 you will see they are the same channel.

Comcast seems to move pretty slow when it comes to adding/removing channels...

On the cable box, 6 and 80 are the same, too.

Just like with the satellite companies, they will have to go to MPEG4 compression to squeeze more programming into the pipeline. As I understand it based on chats with some Comcast personnel, this will take a complete change in equipment at the head end in each community and the exchange of the cable boxes we now have, which use MPEG2 compression. Earlier in the year, Comcast placed orders with Panasonic and another company (can't recall which-- Sharp or Samsung maybe) to build a new generation of boxes that incorporate MPEG4, and a small number of those boxes will be available next year some time. The Panasonics will be a 3-tuner DVRs.

The one thing I hope Comcast doesn't do is go to HD-lite, like the satellilte companies did (1280 x 1080 rather than the full 1980 x 1080). If they do, remember that if you have an HDTV with an HD tuner, you can receive these broadcasts over-the-air in full HD. A rabbit ears antenna works pretty well, even though most of Denver's stations broadcast in HD/digital from Republic Plaza downtown at very low power. Only 2 and 31 broadcast in HD from Lookout Mountain, and they are not at full power either. Their signals, however, boom in.

It's my opinion we will not see new HD offerings through Comcast until at least 2008. It's more important to them to add services that generate cash (internet and phone service) than to increase or use more bandswidth for the existing TV subscribers. As it is, they are losing market share to satellite all over the place. It's hard to justify major changes if the sales numbers are not there.

The real problem for Comcast and its viewers comes on 2/17/09, when all customers will need a digital set-top box to watch any television, unless the customers have TVs with ATSC tuners (digital). On that day, analog broadcast TV goes away and full digital comes in. It looks like a long time in the future, just under three years, but that will fly. And I'm not sure Comcast is up to supplying that many set-top boxes that actually work consistently. The number of subscribers that will need them for every TV and VCR/DVD-R in the house is huge. Millions, probably. That's going to cost them a fortune for new boxes. It's also may be a nice opportunity for those who invest in Matsushita, the parent of Panasonic.

I think what angers me most is Comcast was thorouoghly unprepared for HDTV. They didn't prepare for the increased need for bandswidth. Their Motorola cable boxes, and especially the 6412 DVRs, are just lousy machines. They should have used a bit of imagination and looked into the future a bit and said, many channels will go HDTV, both local and satellite, so what do we do to prepare for it?

And now we're left pondering which channels we'd rather have if they ever add more.

Here are some new channels supposed to debut in HD this year:
Food Network HD, Fox HD (will incorporate HD programs from FX, Fox and Fox Sports), National Geographic HD (which has already started up), and HGTV-HD.

I'd love to see Stan Kronke change Altitude to a full-HD network (Avalanche, Nuggets). They actually have some great local programming there, especially for local musicians. I'd love to see all of the Rockies games in HD, even though it will be painful to watch their incompetence in such clarity. I'd love Comcast Channel's music programming to be in HD and nice stereo sound. I'd LOVE to see the FX programs The Shield, Rescue Me, and the new program, Thief, in HD. I'd love to see BBC America in HD, when it's available.

Each of us could make a list as long as our arms about what we want in HD and what we don't want. The point is, Comcast is not capable of delivering it and, the truth is, neither are the satellite companies. If I were a broadcaster, I'd look twice at converting to HD transmission capability until there is a way to deliver the programming to viewers in HD. This will hamstring the development of HD. And that's a shame, because, when done right, is nothing short of stunning to look at and listen to.

dr_mal

03-31-06, 11:09 AM

The real problem for Comcast and its viewers comes on 2/17/09, when all customers will need a digital set-top box to watch any television, unless the customers have TVs with ATSC tuners (digital). On that day, analog broadcast TV goes away and full digital comes in.
Bzzzt. Wrong. On 2/17/09, analog OTA goes away. Anyone dependent on cable or satellite for 100% of their viewing is not impacted at all. Cable and satellite can continue to broadcast crapvision - I mean standard def - as long as they're making money doing it. Idealistically, I hope market forces start to demand HD, but I doubt that's going to happen.

[edit: Sorry if that came off too snarky. Didn't sleep too well last night]

mayest

03-31-06, 04:35 PM

I got a letter today saying that I have to upgrade to a digital box to ensure that I will still receive premium channels "like HBO and Cinemax." In my case, that isnt true since I only have 1 TV and a 6412. However, it makes me wonder if HBO will finally be available on a digital tier only. If so, that would free up a little bandwidth, right? Maybe we will be getting another HD channel soon.

There was no deadline given, but it appears that they are trying to get everybody to upgrade to digital.

Here's an update: I just got an automated phone call from Comcast. It said that their records showed that I have one or more premium services and at least one "digital device" (I presume the 6412). Therefore, on or before April 25th I would need to get a digital converter for each of the other outlets in my house where I wish to receive programming (not sure if they said it was these premium services, or any programming) at those outlets. These digital converters are free of charge.

So, it seems that some switch will be happening on April 25. I guess HBO and Cinemax are going to be digital only.

Couch Patato

03-31-06, 07:58 PM

Has anyone that does NOT subscribe to any premium channels been able to get them during FREE week ends? HBO was free a few weeks ago & I could not get it.

Showtime is supposed to be free this weekend I think?

I have a 6412 by the way.

roller11

03-31-06, 08:44 PM

The one thing I hope Comcast doesn't do is go to HD-lite, like the satellilte companies did (1280 x 1080 rather than the full 1980 x 1080). If they do, remember that if you have an HDTV with an HD tuner, you can receive these broadcasts over-the-air in full HD.
How does a TV with a ATSC tuner help, you can't record.

BobLikesHDTV

04-01-06, 09:35 AM

Bzzzt. Wrong. On 2/17/09, analog OTA goes away. Anyone dependent on cable or satellite for 100% of their viewing is not impacted at all. Cable and satellite can continue to broadcast crapvision - I mean standard def - as long as they're making money doing it. Idealistically, I hope market forces start to demand HD, but I doubt that's going to happen.

[edit: Sorry if that came off too snarky. Didn't sleep too well last night]

And I suppose nobody receives the local OTA channels via Comcast cable TV?

So you're saying we don't and will not get channels 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 31, et al via Comcast?

Are you saying that Comcast will take in the signals digitally and then reconvert them to analog? If so, I'd appreciate a source at Comcast for this corporate decision so I can update my information with something authoritative.

See, I don't understand why they would refab their system for digital cable, at such a tremendous expense, if they intended to continue operating in analog forever.

As it is, the local channels are being taken in via analog and reformatted for digital. They transmit the local channels three different ways: via analog on 2, 4, 6, etc.; via digital (81.1, 81.2-- the numbers may be off, as I don't have my self-made chart with me); and via digital high def (652, 653, etc..). I can't see them doing it the other way around after 2/17/09. It just doesn't make sense financially, especially when you can get an extra $5/month/box from a subscriber.

And no, I don't think you were snarky. No problem there. I'm just trying to think in three dimensions while applying a bit of logic.

Did you see Marv Rockford's editorial in the Post on Friday? A very interesting card is revealed in this poker game with Golden.

BobLikesHDTV

04-01-06, 10:00 AM

How does a TV with a ATSC tuner help, you can't record.

True. I can't record this way. But it allowed me to watch the March Madness tourney in PIP, with the High def picture (channel 18.1) on one side and the KCNC digital channel (18.8 or analog 4) on the other.

For most of the tourney, KCNC was broadcasting two different games at the same time.

The images are a lot cleaner and in some cases wider on ATSC rather than through the cable box.

I have figured a way to get a wider image from the cable box, though. When I play the box via an IEEE 1394 cable, I get about a 40% wider image that is significantly clearer.

Going ATSC also helps another way. Because of where I live, less than a mile from Mt Morrison near the foothills, my cable box picks up interference (lines going NNE to SSW across the screen) from a Spanish language FM station. On the cable box/DVR this happens between channels 65 (MSNBC) and 99. Comcast says they can't fix this. However, when I watch these broadcasts with the ATSC tuner, those lines are gone. So I watch those channels via the ATSC tuner and never record them. It also suggests the shielding in the 6412 box, regardless of whether it's Phases I, II or III, is no better than what one would get from the average plastic drinking straw.

And it is astounding how slow the signal flows through the cable box relative to the straight coax-ATSC tuner. I was counting a seven second delay during the March Madness tourney. Factoring the speed of light, that's the equivalent of the signal being transmitted from the Moon if it were five times its present distance from Earth.

BobLikesHDTV

04-01-06, 10:10 AM

Here's an update: I just got an automated phone call from Comcast. It said that their records showed that I have one or more premium services and at least one "digital device" (I presume the 6412). Therefore, on or before April 25th I would need to get a digital converter for each of the other outlets in my house where I wish to receive programming (not sure if they said it was these premium services, or any programming) at those outlets. These digital converters are free of charge.

So, it seems that some switch will be happening on April 25. I guess HBO and Cinemax are going to be digital only.

Dr. Mal. See what I mean? The conversion to full digital begins!

DP1

04-01-06, 11:03 AM

But at first your premise was that they'd *have* to supply every home and every tv with a box when you said:

The real problem for Comcast and its viewers comes on 2/17/09, when all customers will need a digital set-top box to watch any television, unless the customers have TVs with ATSC tuners (digital). On that day, analog broadcast TV goes away and full digital comes in. It looks like a long time in the future, just under three years, but that will fly. And I'm not sure Comcast is up to supplying that many set-top boxes that actually work consistently. The number of subscribers that will need them for every TV and VCR/DVD-R in the house is huge. Millions, probably. That's going to cost them a fortune for new boxes.

On one hand you're suggesting they'll have to do it but may not have the ability to properly implement it.. and on the other hand you're saying they'll want to because of the $5 box/month they can charge.

dr_mal was just pointing out that converting the local digitals back to analog is no big deal if thats what they'd need to do for a while for whatever reason.

No different than anybody who has a cable/sat HD box at this time without an HDTV yet that just watches via s-video output for example. In that instance the box itself rather than the provider is the thing doing the digital/analog conversion. But the provider could do it just as well from their end if need be.

Point being, it's rather cut and dry... when that day comes, 2/17/09, either every sub will already have a STB for all the tv's in their home that needs one, or they wont. And if any appreciable number yet dont, you can bet Comcast (or any cable co) will still be sending them local channels one way or the other since they get paid for doing it.

The REAL problem is for all the OTA only households when that day comes because in those cases they arent paying anyone anything for TV.. they just expect it to work when they turn their sets on. Who's going to be providing all those converter boxes and at what price to those households remains the question.

HDNair

04-01-06, 04:01 PM

Anyone know what is going to happen with the NFL Network once the new season starts? I was talking to a friend who is a basic cable subscriber with Comcast and he mentioned that he would upgrade to digital if he had to to get the NFL games. I wonder what the demand will be among basic cable customers... the Bronco games will be carried by a local affiliate but the rest of the games will only be on the NFL Network. Since I'm an HD subscriber, I'm obviously hoping Comcast keeps NFL network on digital and it helps convert more of their customers to digital. But I'm sure that will piss off some basic cable customers.

dr_mal

04-02-06, 12:34 AM

And I suppose nobody receives the local OTA channels via Comcast cable TV?

So you're saying we don't and will not get channels 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 31, et al via Comcast?

Are you saying that Comcast will take in the signals digitally and then reconvert them to analog? If so, I'd appreciate a source at Comcast for this corporate decision so I can update my information with something authoritative.

Couple of things. From what I've learned at the station tours the last few years, Comcast (as well as D* and E*) don't depend on OTA reception for the standard def versions of the local channels. They've all got fiber links to the Comcast headend. When the stations stop sending NTSC signals to the tower, there's absolutely nothing stopping them from sending those same NTSC signals over their existing fiber connection to Comcast.

Also, every HD set top box I've seen has had the ability to take an HD channel and output it to a SD TV either through RF (Coax), Composite, and/or S-Video.

Finally, sure if Comcast wanted to, they could take the HD local channels and downconvert to SD if they didn't want to depend on the above two options. But you're right - we have no evidence that that is something Comcast is considering.

The Lostknight

04-02-06, 03:27 AM

BobLikesHDTV

04-02-06, 02:57 PM

But at first your premise was that they'd *have* to supply every home and every tv with a box when you said:

On one hand you're suggesting they'll have to do it but may not have the ability to properly implement it.. and on the other hand you're saying they'll want to because of the $5 box/month they can charge.

dr_mal was just pointing out that converting the local digitals back to analog is no big deal if thats what they'd need to do for a while for whatever reason.

No different than anybody who has a cable/sat HD box at this time without an HDTV yet that just watches via s-video output for example. In that instance the box itself rather than the provider is the thing doing the digital/analog conversion. But the provider could do it just as well from their end if need be.

Point being, it's rather cut and dry... when that day comes, 2/17/09, either every sub will already have a STB for all the tv's in their home that needs one, or they wont. And if any appreciable number yet dont, you can bet Comcast (or any cable co) will still be sending them local channels one way or the other since they get paid for doing it.

The REAL problem is for all the OTA only households when that day comes because in those cases they arent paying anyone anything for TV.. they just expect it to work when they turn their sets on. Who's going to be providing all those converter boxes and at what price to those households remains the question.

When I wrote, I said I was applying some 3-D thinking and logic. That does not involve a psychic ability to get every detail right.

What I wrote was essentially correct. Come 2/17/09, we will live in an all-digital world where local programming is concerned. Comcast's digital conversion and the period from now to 2/17/09 ---IS--- the adjustment period for Comcast and OTA households alike.

Based on the remarks posted by Mayest, I surmise Comcast is now moving to convert everybody to digital STBs, and so I feel confident that the analog broadcasts coming via Comcast will also end on 2/17/09 or shortly after. The conversion is now on in earnest. And I'm delighted to see they they are not charging for additional STBs.

Besides, I'm sure Comcast would LOVE to reclaim the bandswidth to generate revenue some other way, hopefully by expanding HDTV.

I'd also love to see them re-channel so HD KWGN is channel 2, HD KCNC is channel 4, etc. I also hope this prompts other broadcasters, like A&E and its various network channels, to convert their signals to all digital so we get the cleanest pictures possible.

It would also be nice to get FX and Sci Fi in stereo. I found quite by accident that the I can get Sci Fi in stereo is by plugging the coax directly into my TV that has an ATSC tuner (channel 85-8). FX broadcasts in stereo, but in my part of Denver it is not carried that way by Comcast. I've been told by a Comcast tech who was talking to the head end while in my home that they rechannel these channels for mono due to bandswidth constraints.

Here's an update: I just got an automated
phone call from Comcast. It said that their records showed
that I have one or more premium services and at least one
"digital device" (I presume the 6412). Therefore, on or before
April 25th I would need to get a digital converter for each
of the other outlets in my house where I wish to receive
programming (not sure if they said it was these premium
services, or any programming) at those outlets. These digital
converters are free of charge.

So, it seems that some switch will be happening on April
25. I guess HBO and Cinemax are going to be digital
only.

BobLikesHDTV

04-02-06, 03:04 PM

Couple of things. From what I've learned at the station tours the last few years, Comcast (as well as D* and E*) don't depend on OTA reception for the standard def versions of the local channels. They've all got fiber links to the Comcast headend. When the stations stop sending NTSC signals to the tower, there's absolutely nothing stopping them from sending those same NTSC signals over their existing fiber connection to Comcast.

Also, every HD set top box I've seen has had the ability to take an HD channel and output it to a SD TV either through RF (Coax), Composite, and/or S-Video.

Finally, sure if Comcast wanted to, they could take the HD local channels and downconvert to SD if they didn't want to depend on the above two options. But you're right - we have no evidence that that is something Comcast is considering.

Thanks for the comments, Dr Mal. You're right about the RF output on the STBs. I forgot about that. However, I don't see the buget efficacy for the local stations to continue to stream in NTSC via the fiber links when they stop broadcasting that way. If I were the station manager, it's one more expense (maintenance and such) that I would want to do away with in time.

BobLikesHDTV

04-03-06, 04:14 PM

HDNair

04-03-06, 05:51 PM

UPN 20 announced on its web site today that programming is now available on Comcast HD channel 657. It did not say programming was in HD, however.

The picture looks quite clear for the Rockies game, which is a nice change of pace.

http://www.upn20.tv/

It's true! I can't believe it, a new HD channel from Comcast! I had gotten the idea that Comcast couldn't add anything due to bandwidth restrictions. Granted it's one that will probably have very little actual HD content, maybe that's why they could add it. I guess I would have preferred they add something I would watch more, but hopefully this is a sign that they actually have more flexibility than I thought.

dr_mal

04-03-06, 06:06 PM

It's true! I can't believe it, a new HD channel from Comcast! I had gotten the idea that Comcast couldn't add anything due to bandwidth restrictions. Granted it's one that will probably have very little actual HD content, maybe that's why they could add it. I guess I would have preferred they add something I would watch more, but hopefully this is a sign that they actually have more flexibility than I thought.
Actually, zero HD content for now. The issue is that until Gannett completes their purchase of UPN20, UPN20 isn't going to buy the equipment needed to timeshift the network HD content.

My understanding is that Comcast isn't corrupting the HD content on local channels, so if they have the bandwidth to handle UPN's digital channel right now, nothing will have to change on Comcast's side when UPN20 finally gets some HD content to air. Of course, by the time the Gannett purchase is done, UPN will be no more, so who knows if we'll ever see any actual HD on KTVD...

HDNair

04-03-06, 06:33 PM

Actually, zero HD content for now. The issue is that until Gannett completes their purchase of UPN20, UPN20 isn't going to buy the equipment needed to timeshift the network HD content.

My understanding is that Comcast isn't corrupting the HD content on local channels, so if they have the bandwidth to handle UPN's digital channel right now, nothing will have to change on Comcast's side when UPN20 finally gets some HD content to air. Of course, by the time the Gannett purchase is done, UPN will be no more, so who knows if we'll ever see any actual HD on KTVD...

Okay. Guess this news doesn't amount to much if you don't watch anything on UPN 20 as of now...

dd2

04-04-06, 08:18 AM

Does anyone know the QAM tuning equivalent for UPN on Comcast channel 657?

HDJello

04-04-06, 11:36 AM

Does anyone know the QAM tuning equivalent for UPN on Comcast channel 657?
In Boulder it is on 117.1.

BobLikesHDTV

04-04-06, 12:04 PM

Of course, by the time the Gannett purchase is done, UPN will be no more, so who knows if we'll ever see any actual HD on KTVD...

There are some syndicated programs now available in HD Some of them are already on KDTV (Raymond, King of Queens). And no doubt there will be more as the years, both first-run and repeats. And I truly hope they broadcast Rockies games in HD in the future. Even on the digital channel yesterday, the game looked blurred and the picture had waves running through it (think heat waves coming off the pavement on a hot day).

dr_mal

04-04-06, 12:23 PM

There are some syndicated programs now available in HD Some of them are already on KDTV (Raymond, King of Queens). And no doubt there will be more as the years, both first-run and repeats. And I truly hope they broadcast Rockies games in HD in the future. Even on the digital channel yesterday, the game looked blurred and the picture had waves running through it (think heat waves coming off the pavement on a hot day).
Are they available in HD in syndication? I thought only Seinfeld (and Wheel and Jeopardy this fall) were syndicated in HD?

(Then again, TNT-HD seems to have HD copies of their recent syndicated shows, so who knows)

BobLikesHDTV

04-05-06, 10:07 AM

Is anybody else suddenly having extreme problems with the 6412?

I have a phase II. On Monday at about 7:53 PM my box did a hard re-boot all on its own. Since then programs that were set as series recordings, that still SHOW as series recordings, are not recording. We've almost missed whole nights of shows had we not been looking for the red leds on the front of the box.

The same thing happened about three weeks ago and then settled down.

What is going on at Comcast!! Another lame software update that's screwing up everything? Enough! Test your software before uploading it. And then upload it in the middle of the night, not with seven minutes left in a prime time programming hour.

Frankly if it wasn't for HD-lite, Altitude, Sundance Channel and having to buy the HD-DVR, I'd be a satellite customer by now.

Anybody know when the Panasonic DVRs will be available thorugh Comcrash?

Also over the last few weeks they've deprived us of being able to see most channels by plugging the coax cable directly into the back of the TV with an ATSC/QAM setup. Just great. Now I have to watch MSNBC with lines running through it.

This is the most slap-dash, lousy, second-rate service imaginable.

captainjy

04-06-06, 06:55 PM

albundyru

04-06-06, 09:12 PM

Is anyone else out there accessing the cable via a seperate tuner? All of a sudden it appears (at least here) that about 1/2 of the comcast channels suddenly went encrypted. This is a bit painful since I just not got my myth box actually up and reading thoose channels.

Same here. Using QAM tuner and all the expanded SD channels (CNN, TNT, all the Discovery channels) are not there any more. :mad: :mad: :mad: Analog channels are not affected. I am in Denver (ex-MileHI cable) area.

Has anybody called Customer Service to find out?

albundyru

04-06-06, 10:20 PM

Same here. Using QAM tuner and all the expanded SD channels (CNN, TNT, all the Discovery channels) are not there any more. :mad: :mad: :mad: Analog channels are not affected. I am in Denver (ex-MileHI cable) area.

Has anybody called Customer Service to find out?

Oh well, I called them and also used their "chat" online. Nobody there seems to know anything besides "reset your cable connection".
Here is a copy of my online chat session (slightly edited for privacy).
Any advice?

LiveAssist Transcript

chat id : 9bbe45ca-1583-47c8-a473-xxxxxxx
Problem : Cable TV/General Inquiry
Janet > Thank you for contacting Comcast Cable support, my name is Janet. How may I assist you with your cable TV question today?
Cust. > Hi, Janet. Are you familiar with what QAM tuners do?
Janet > no
Cust. > OK, is there anybody there who knows about them?
Janet > I will check with the floor coach
Janet > still checking
Janet > what specifically do you want to know?
Cust. > Several days ago half of my SD channels went away.
Janet > would you like to have a link sent to you where you can find the QAM info?
Janet > do you mean your HD channels?
Cust. > QAM tuner allows people to get digital channels without using set top boxes.
Cust. > No, HD channels are fine
Cust. > SD channels are digital standard definition channels
Janet > QAM should not affect the channels or make them disappear
Cust. > That's very true. Sounds like Comcast people changed something
Janet > could be we are always changing the channel lineups
Janet > reset the cable box and see what happens
Janet > To reset the cable converter box, unplug the converter from the electrical outlet. Let sit for 60 seconds, then plug it back in.
Cust. > I do not have converter box. I am using QAM tuner in my TV instead. That's why I asked in the beginning if you know what QAM tuners do.
Janet > are you talking about a cable card?
Cust. > Nope, but a cable card will plug into a QAM tuner in a TV.
Cust. > Here is some info about QAM - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation
Janet > what is your apt number Cust.
Cust. > XXX. Why?
Janet > you don't have a digital package so you can't pickup the digital signals that are now scrambled
Janet > if you want to get the digital channels then you have to subsribe to a digital package.
Janet > and get a digital box or a cable card
Cust. > I am paying for expanded cable. It shouldn't be scrambled
Janet > the digital channels are scrambled
Janet > and you have to subscribe or not receive them
Cust. > The digital channels were not scrambled until a few days ago. Comcast was broadcasting all of them in both, analog and digital (SD)
Cust. > By the way, I am subscribing to all of them
Janet > yes and we encrypted them so you will only receive the channels you are paying for now.
Janet > no
Janet > you should be able to get channels 2-99 and that is all
Cust. > Not quite so - there are also digital standard definition channels which are the same as channels 2-99, but half of them disappeared a few days ago.
Cust. > I am not talking about Comcast "Digital Cable" which is just a brand name and not an actual digital anything.
Cust. > The channels that I'm talking about are the channels like CNN, Discovery, History Channel, etc. which were broadcasted in digital form. Same channels in analog are still fine.
Janet > The Denver area is now all digital format
Janet > and those are the digital channels that you have to have a digital package to get
Cust. > Please read my previous message. I am talking about TNT, CNN, Travel Channel, etc.
Cust. > Janet, has there been a change in Comcast channel lineup (frequencies) in Denver in the past week?
Janet > not that I know of
Janet > you might want to reset the connection
Janet > If you do not have a converter box, reset your cable connection by doing the following: 1. Turn off the TV 2. Unplug the cable connection from the TV 3. Let sit for 30 seconds 4. Reconnect cable to TV. 5. Turn on the TV
Cust. > It's already been done.
Cust. > By the way, it's usually a pretty bad idea to imply that a customer is a thief.
Janet > Analyst has closed chat and left the room

HDNair

04-07-06, 06:04 PM

Freaking Comcast. They don't even take the time to announce anything. What, do they expect that everyone is going to just discover this crap online? Where are the announcements, newsletters, emails? Comcast is a joke.

I just got a message on my box this morning announcing the addition of "UPN-HD" (even though according to a dr_mal there is no actual HD content on the channel). It was a few days after I had noticed the channel was there. There seems to be a few days late with all there announcements. Like when UHD replaced INHD2 for the Olympics... we'd had UHD on 665 for days before there was a message on my box about it.

gnasty_gnork

04-07-06, 07:10 PM

For those in Longmont watching Comcast...

Looks like we now have WB2 and KRMA-DT. These are the QAM channels I am getting:

68-1 KMGH-DT (ABC)
68-2 KCNC-DT (CBS)
69-1 KDVR-DT (FOX)
69-2 KUSA-DT (NBC)
87-1 KWGN-DT (WB)
87-2 KRMA-DT (PBS)

I just bought a TV with a QAM tuner and I pick up all the channels above except 68-1 (ABC) and 68-2 (CBS). Are others in Longmont still receiving those channels using a QAM tuner?

rblatchley

04-08-06, 03:16 AM

I just bought a TV with a QAM tuner and I pick up all the channels above except 68-1 (ABC) and 68-2 (CBS). Are others in Longmont still receiving those channels using a QAM tuner?

I was receiving all of those channels as of last Sunday night. Haven't checked since then, but I assume they're all working correctly.

GutBomb

04-08-06, 02:18 PM

my cable box got messages that KTVD is now available in HD on channel 657 but 657 doesn't come in, and it doesn;t show up in the guide. on either of my 6412's.

I am in lafayette. Anyone else have the same problems?

Couch Patato

04-08-06, 04:14 PM

Anyone else NOT get the Rockies game yesterday on INHD1? It was listed on the guide but it was just blank. Nothing, not even a " The channl/program is not available" message.

edit4ever

04-08-06, 09:40 PM

UPN20 is found on QAM 117.1 in the Denver cable lineup --- I just rescanned my channels since Comcast has decided to scramble most of the digital "basic" channels. Actually what I've determined is they are passing the digital copies of the basic tier but have now scrambled the standard channels. If you do go to the channel lineup on comcast.com you can see what the difference is. There is a new tier called enhanced cable... it seems that this is the digital version of the standard package... I wonder if you could order this and add a cable card so a stand alone qam tuner could receive these channels?? At least we will always get the local HD channels through QAM.

HDNair

04-09-06, 03:38 AM

Anyone else NOT get the Rockies game yesterday on INHD1? It was listed on the guide but it was just blank. Nothing, not even a " The channl/program is not available" message.

I'd guess it's the same situation with the NBATV HD feeds on INHD. When NBATV airs games they'll pick up the local broadcasts of one of the teams, probably the home team. When INHD has the NBATV games in HD, they are picking up the same camera angles and commentary from a local station and adding a 5.1 sound mix and a different score display with the NBATV logo, etc. A couple of times they've been scheduled to air Nuggets games when they're on the road, and those games have been blacked out. I've called Comcast about it and of course, their CSR's maintain their proud standard of complete and utter cluelessness. All I can do is make an educated guess: Since the game is also airing on Altitude, Comcast is contractually obligated to blackout the NBATV feed from the other team's station, in addition to the INHD feed, so people in the Denver area have to watch the game on Altitude. Of course, that means HD customers have to settle for watching the game in crap-o-vision since Altitude usually only airs home games in HD. Really pissed me off once when I invited friends over to watch a Nuggets game scheduled to air on INHD. When NBATV airs the Altitude HD feed for home games, it's not blacked out and you'll have the same game with the same commentators on INHD1 and 2 with a different logo and sound mix.

captainjy

04-12-06, 01:40 AM

UserNameTaken

04-12-06, 11:04 AM

Hello everyone. We have had Comcast since December and are on our third DVR- 2 6412's and now a 3412 (whatever model it is). Since we have been with Comcast, we are constantly seeing a stuttering, slow motion effect where whatever show we are watching is moving at slower motion, but the sound is in sync. My wife is enraged over this and wants to go back to DirecTV and just pay for the HD equipment. Personally, I would prefer to stay with Comcast because of higher HD resolution and the price we are getting, but I have to admit, this is getting old. We have called Comcast on numerous occassions. Any ideas what is causing this and what we can do?
I believe that the 6412 can get into a "state" where it cannot play HD material at the full frame rate, with the result being that things look "jerky". I've correlated this to when the unit is reacquiring guide data - after it has been power-cycled, for instance.

The 6412/3412 is a disgrace, and it's hard to imagine that it's in the hands of so many customers.

We're tempted to go back to DirecTV as well, and as soon as all local stations are available through Dish or DirecTV, I imagine we'll do so unless Comcast comes up with a better STB.

mayest

04-12-06, 02:07 PM

Captainjy,

I haven't had the problems you described, but I've had plenty of others (phantom series recordings, strangely named and dated shows, etc). All of my problems, so far, have been solved by unplugging the unit for a minute or so. That necessitates redownloading the guide, so it is a pain.

Have you had Comcast out to check your signal strength? I've had a couple of problems with the line on the next street over that caused a lot of stuttering. Once they repaired the line I haven't had anymore problems.

Tim

DP1

04-12-06, 03:10 PM

captainjy

04-13-06, 12:28 AM

Well I've been lucky where I've never really had any probs with the signal or the 6412.. havent been using it much lately though now that I'm with Dish again..

But anyway, cap'n, yeah, with that kind of an issue I'd be bailing in a hurry too if they couldnt resolve it.

Tim's prolly on the right track with something being wrong with the incoming signal at your place.

It's pretty frustrating, especially with the wife on me about it daily. It's nice having an $85 bill for HD Cable and Internet, but there comes a point when it's just not worth it. We have had Comcast out 3 times and each time they said signal looked great. The techs acknowledge the slow motion problem, but never provide anything more. I seem to notice this mainly during popular shows like the Superbowl and other local sporting shows like an Avs or Nuggets game. Anyhow, thanks for the replies guys!

Couch Patato

04-13-06, 02:35 AM

I would check the signal strength first. Others have had this problem & it was the signal stength. Here's how to do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412#How_To_Check_Your_Incoming_Signal_Strength

Others with low signal strength have had some chanels work just fine while other don't show at all. Just the message saying this chanel will be availible shortly & then it never is.

Have you searched this problem on the 6412 I-guid thread? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=464986&page=1&pp=30

UserNameTaken

04-13-06, 10:38 AM

It's pretty frustrating, especially with the wife on me about it daily. It's nice having an $85 bill for HD Cable and Internet, but there comes a point when it's just not worth it. We have had Comcast out 3 times and each time they said signal looked great. The techs acknowledge the slow motion problem, but never provide anything more. I seem to notice this mainly during popular shows like the Superbowl and other local sporting shows like an Avs or Nuggets game. Anyhow, thanks for the replies guys!
On the 6412 thread, others (as well as myself) have noted the can't-keep-up-the-frame-rate problem, and some agree with me that it may be related to guide data update.

Your User Name:

04-13-06, 06:18 PM

My 6412 just froze up on me and I got it replaced, but it is a slightly different box. I'm wondering if anyone knows what I have and whether it will likely be better or worse for me. The biggest initial difference I noticed was that this box doesn't have DVI outputs as my previous 6412 did. Instead I had to hook it up via HDMI. I haven't had a chance to check it out very much, but hopefully someone knows what I've got or, at least, how I might find out what I have if this doesn't ring a bell.

Couch Patato

04-13-06, 07:40 PM

It's probably a phase III 6412. It will not have DVI. Only HDMI insted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6412

sfm

04-13-06, 08:02 PM

Hello everyone. We have had Comcast since December and are on our third DVR- 2 6412's and now a 3412 (whatever model it is). Since we have been with Comcast, we are constantly seeing a stuttering, slow motion effect where whatever show we are watching is moving at slower motion, but the sound is in sync. My wife is enraged over this and wants to go back to DirecTV and just pay for the HD equipment. Personally, I would prefer to stay with Comcast because of higher HD resolution and the price we are getting, but I have to admit, this is getting old. We have called Comcast on numerous occassions. Any ideas what is causing this and what we can do?
captainjy,

I have observed this same behavior with the 6412 phase III box we picked up a couple of months ago here in Westminster. Turning off the box or unplugging it did not work... what finally fixed it for this box was swapping the tuner (using the remote)... that seemed to get it out of this mode and it has worked fine since. Note: we normally do not ever swap the tuners, so can't say if doing this frequently also may re-introduce the problem.

wmarkw

04-14-06, 09:50 AM

Is denver still running firmware 12.18??? I noticed that the current version is 12.31. It would be nice to even have 12.22 which fixes the 5.1 issued over HDMI. Does anyone know how and who to bitch to so we can get this fixed??

wmarkw

04-14-06, 10:13 AM

BobLikesHDTV

04-14-06, 10:29 AM

It's pretty frustrating, especially with the wife on me about it daily. It's nice having an $85 bill for HD Cable and Internet, but there comes a point when it's just not worth it. We have had Comcast out 3 times and each time they said signal looked great. The techs acknowledge the slow motion problem, but never provide anything more. I seem to notice this mainly during popular shows like the Superbowl and other local sporting shows like an Avs or Nuggets game. Anyhow, thanks for the replies guys!

This is a known issue with the 6412 Phase III box.

Ask them for a phase II box. The problem goes away with this.

There is no other fix except by going to D* or E*.

BobLikesHDTV

04-15-06, 11:22 AM

Well a quick update to myself I guess….Just got off the phone w/ Comcast and after several re-routings of my call nobody knows what “firmware” means and kept on insisting I’m talking about HSI. I did get to one lady who knows one guy in their department that should be able to help me out and I’m supposed to get a call back. I mean this is crap and I told her straight out that their CS is incompetent which all she said was sorry that they’re not trained on those issues. I’ll post again once I found something out.

Then they're full of beans. Before Christmas, I called and asked the same question. I think I spoke to Kathy, who was a supervisor in the call center here in Denver. She knew what I was talking about and ran me through the process to recycle the box, which I don't remember. If the firmware was not up-to-date this would make it so. It gave me the same firmware.

An hour later I got a call from a manager whose job was to work with the software side of things. He said they had received the Phase III's new firmware but were not happy with its performance. They wanted other things put into it Some of it involved activating things like the USB cable, to allow customers to plug in an external hard drive and increase storage capacity.

He said they would be testing it when available, hoped to be this spring, and will then roll out.

Keep in mind first thing next year Panasonic is supposed to deliver 250,000 triple tuner DVRs-- a next generation device that combines MPEG 4 compression technology, the ability to record three programs at once, and even email.

Keeping my fingers crossed I can grab one the minute I hear it's available.

Story about the boxes: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10714083/from/RL.3/

mayest

04-15-06, 03:14 PM

Keep in mind first thing next year Panasonic is supposed to deliver 250,000 triple tuner DVRs-- a next generation device that combines MPEG 4 compression technology, the ability to record three programs at once, and even email.

Keeping my fingers crossed I can grab one the minute I hear it's available.

Story about the boxes: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10714083/from/RL.3/
Triple tuners? That would be sweet. I often run into a problem recording if I have a program set to start a minute or two early. I think having three tuners would solve that.

Are you sure it will have three tuners? The story you linked to didn't say anything about the number of tuners.

HDNair

04-15-06, 08:12 PM

Triple tuners? That would be sweet. I often run into a problem recording if I have a program set to start a minute or two early. I think having three tuners would solve that.

Are you sure it will have three tuners? The story you linked to didn't say anything about the number of tuners.

Here's more info about the boxes:

This mentions the triple tuner:http://blog.itvt.com/my_weblog/2006/01/comcast_in_ocap.html

This mentions Denver will be one of the first markets to get them:
http://blog.itvt.com/my_weblog/2006/01/leading_cable_e.html

The avforum thread on the boxes (mentions a fall release... not too far away!): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640348&page=2&pp=30

mayest

04-16-06, 12:56 AM

Thanks for the links HDNair. If I read the OpenCable page correctly, one of the things that OCAP means is that we can buy our own boxes, right? I guess Comcast could decide whether or not to allow that, but it would be nice to be able to have a selection and maybe some expansion choices.

Tim

Your User Name:

04-17-06, 12:20 PM

Did anyone get a stuttering effect for the last 10 minutes or so of the Sopranos last night on HBO-HD? I just last week had to exchange my box and I'm worried that the problem is related to these Phase III nightmares. I had a Phase II and had minimal problems before it went kaput.

GutBomb

04-17-06, 11:50 PM

i got no such effect on my 6412/III

HDJello

04-28-06, 11:58 AM

With the onset of warmer weather, I have had an issue with the Digital channels (SD and HD) on the higher frequencies are not stable during the day. When things cool down at night, it works better. It was particularly bad last Saturday when almost no digital channel at all would lock (except for 654, which is on analog channel 18), so I scheduled a service call. Unfortunately for me, that call was for Tuesday, and we had snow and cold. So now I have them scheduled to come back next Monday, but with another patch of cold moving into town, I don't know if it will be warm enough. Comcast CSRs have suggested switching the box (according to the tech that was there on Tuesday, I have a 6412 Phase I but I didn't even know there was such a thing, and had always thought it was a 6412 Phase II) but effects of inadequate signal happen on my second TV which has no box; just a QAM tuner, so I don't see how this can be happening. Comcast CSRs have said this is not something they have ever heard of before, but I'm guessing the heat may cause some connections to be less tight, if the fittings expand. It could be something else too, I suppose.

Here's hoping for warm (enough) weather on Monday.

Benzyl

04-28-06, 02:20 PM

HDJello-
Here is the issue for you. Cable wires (like all metal wire transmission systems) are more efficient in colder conditions. The colder the wire the more signal you will get on your box. With HD and higher frequency communication, the range of "valid" signal is narrow. The low signal level is not very far from the high signal level, so when you had your cable installed and they checked your signal you were on the lowish side in the winter, but you are under the low level in warmer weather. The easiest solution is to ask Comcast to test your signal strength (better if it is warm) and have them get a line tech to boost the signal. The problem you may have is that when it gets cold you will have a "too hot" signal. This can damage your cable box and cause other issues. the simple fix for a too hot signal is to buy some cable splitters (make sure they have the correct frequency cut-offs) and put those on your lines during the winter. Splitters reduce your signal strength, so your hot signal will be safe.

As more and more people get HD, this problem will become more common.

Benzyl

HDJello

04-29-06, 05:04 PM

Thanks Benzyl. I live in a rental condo, so I'm not sure what they might do as it could potentially impact other subscribers in the building. But I had it installed late last summer, and it was working OK then. Some other tech might have cranked it down in the winter sometime, and who knows what they might find. Based on current weather forecasts, I might need to move my appointment to Tuesday.

HDJello

05-01-06, 03:46 PM

Comcast was out today and was able to boost the signal such that it is now working on all channels. Hopefully I'm good to go for the whole summer.

One thing the tech said was this building (circa 1985) was wired with RG59 coax, which tends to attenuate the high frequencies more than lower. More of a problem would have required running a new feed to my apartment, which probably isn't going to happen any time soon. So fortunately for me the gain tweak seems to be adequate. But this is a potential area that more and more customers may have to deal with as well.

roller11

05-02-06, 04:35 PM

Did anyone catch the "No HD for Longmont" article in the Times Call today?
20 citizens attended a meeting and asked Comcast exec why Comcast is denying
Longmont HD service. The exec replied with the usual "no comment" and Jim Wall, chief tech officer
for Longmont is accepting this and will no doubt reward comcast with an extension
of their contract, meaning we're stuck with no HD for the forseeable future.
Comcast sugar coated the bleak outlook by pointing out that Comcast will
in 6 months provide Longmont with a "new" service...telephone communication.
Seems to me that Longmont has had telephpnes for what, the last 100 years?
Longmont will have no Moday night football for the entire 2006 season now that
MNF is no longer available OTA.

RandyL712

05-02-06, 10:07 PM

Just got my QAM tuner (in my plasma) hooked up, and I love it. Thanks for the great info.

waltzonice

05-04-06, 03:39 PM

Oh well, I called them and also used their "chat" online. Nobody there seems to know anything besides "reset your cable connection".
Here is a copy of my online chat session (slightly edited for privacy).
Any advice?

LiveAssist Transcript (...deleted transcript...)

albundyru -- did you ever resolve your issue with comcast? I've just purchased my first HDTV (Toshiba 50HP95 with CableCARD). I'd like to know the cheapest comcast service to get that includes the HD local channels. Also, will I need the cableCARD -- I think that's $5 per month.

Thanks in advance!

Justins123

05-04-06, 07:13 PM

For those of you in Denver with PIII 6412s, what firmware version do you have?

Thanks!

Benzyl

05-04-06, 07:48 PM

I noticed a slight change earlier today and the firmware was 12.30. I checked around 5:40 and it is now 12.31. I think both 12.30 and 12.31 are both newer then what I had a month ago, but I don't know what I had then.

Benzyl

ColoThistle

05-04-06, 10:47 PM

My III is now 12.31. Last I checked (about a week or two ago), it was still 12.18.

gakon

05-04-06, 11:22 PM

Yeah, I saw a difference in the menu tonight. It seems like they pushed it within the last day, maybe even this evening.

Couch Patato

05-05-06, 12:36 AM

I got my download this morning & 1:30a.m.

It contains the new TV guid menue which is not much different from i-guid.

I don't like how they changed the menue where before you could go strait to the DVR list with the puch of one button. Now you have to go through two pages to get to the list. Very disappointing.:(

However, to get to my favorites guid list I only have to push two buttons now insted of three.

Also the new download didn't fix the dreaded remote delay problem so I really can see that the new firmware makes a damn bit of diff.

KenG

05-05-06, 10:20 AM

I don't like how they changed the menue where before you could go strait to the DVR list with the puch of one button. Now you have to go through two pages to get to the list. Very disappointing.:(

Agreed, not sure how that constitutes an "enhancement". I did see they've posted a list of "improvements" on www.comcast.com/guideupdates

Curiously, it also says "Mute button on DVR fixed"...

Ken

HDNair

05-05-06, 11:40 AM

FYI, tonight's Avs game in Anaheim is on the guide on INHD2! Good move by Altitude since they don't have the rights to games 3 and 4.

Benzyl

05-05-06, 12:04 PM

Agreed, not sure how that constitutes an "enhancement". I did see they've posted a list of "improvements" on www.comcast.com/guideupdates

Curiously, it also says "Mute button on DVR fixed"...

Ken

When you were recording something and tried to turn off the DVR a menu pops up and indicates it is the DVR is currently recording, "do you really want to turn off the DVR". When this happens the cable box mute would turn on. Since many people have programmed the remote controls volume controls to work on thier receivers or TV volume , hitting the mute button did not remove mute from the DVR. You had to unprogram the remote to use the cable box volume control and unmute the box. People with turn on / turn off macros hit this problem quite a bit, since you didn't always know when the DVR was recording. This happened to me a few times, I am glad it is fixed.

Benzyl

wmarkw

05-05-06, 12:29 PM

Well this is certainly good news that we have the latest firmware update. I called about two weeks ago and really bitched at them that we had several annoying bugs more noticeably the HDMI DD issue.

I noticed when I went to my dvr to watch CSI the menu popped up like another poster said and you had to go a couple of pages before you found your dvr recordings. However, I have been used to switching to component to watch my dvr recordings because the lack of dolby digital so I didn’t check if the HDMI issue has been resolved. It should be though…..

BobLikesHDTV

05-05-06, 07:30 PM

Couch Patato

05-05-06, 08:44 PM

Yea I know I just got through writing what the changes are & it really is not any diff.

It's easier for some things now & harder for others.

If the mute problem is fixed that's fine but I does not help me. I don't ever turn my box off.

weldon

05-05-06, 11:54 PM

I noticed a new screensaver today, which could be a welcome addition for some people. I'm annoyed at how "dvr" doesn't take you to the list of programs anymore, but I can live with it.

Couch Patato

05-06-06, 12:32 AM

Yep, with those who can get burn in it would be a nice addition.

mayest

05-06-06, 02:29 PM

Interesting that I don't hear many complaints about the firmware/software update. I hate it. Maybe I don't have it set up correctly on my phase 2 (I think, it has DVI, but not HDMI). Here are my problems:

1) The queing of remote commands is much worse than ever, especially in menus. In the guide it almost always seems to ignore the remote commands, and for a longer time than before.

2) The guide doesn't cover the whole 4:3 area of the screen. There is a small area at the right side that isn't covered. I tried changing the positioning, but that seems to only move the flip bar (I think that's what they call it). It does not change the position of the guide itself.

3) I no longer get a small window in the upper right corner that shows the entire screen. Instead, the program is displayed behind the guide. The window is still there, but it just shows whatever part of the program is in that area.

I think I'll try the "unplug it for 30 seconds" routine and see if that helps.

Tim

Couch Patato

05-06-06, 07:16 PM

mayest

05-07-06, 01:32 PM

As far as the screen postion, there is now a new screen position adjustment found on the first page of the setup guide.
Have you tryed that?

I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure that's the thing that I tried to use to move the guide. It didn't work for the guide, but it did move the flip bar.

I unplugged the 6412 yesterday, and it helped some with remote command queing, but it didn't change anything else.

I may have to call Comcast for this. Has there been any news on when the new DVRs are coming out?

Tim

Your User Name:

05-08-06, 10:24 AM

What does Comcast charge for a second DVR box? Also, the second TV is not HD. Is there a DVR that is cheaper than the 6412 or other HD boxes?

HDJello

05-08-06, 11:20 AM

What does Comcast charge for a second DVR box? Also, the second TV is not HD. Is there a DVR that is cheaper than the 6412 or other HD boxes?
That is currently the only DVR (although press releases of deals with Panasonic and Samsung that may be available). The cost for a second one in Boulder is 6.75 for a second digital outlet plus 9.95 for the DVR, which includes HD for free. I checked this recently because I wanted to add an HD box to my second TV (which is HD) thinking it would be $5.00 more, but it ended up being $11.95 more so for now I haven't done it, and am living with the built-in QAM tuner on the local OTA stuff for now.

I don't quite understand the 6.75 + 9.95 stuff. I hope when (if?) they go all digital that some of this would be reduced, because lots of people have multiple TVs connected to analog now without paying extra charges.

LXIX

05-08-06, 11:41 AM

I don't quite understand the 6.75 + 9.95 stuff. I hope when (if?) they go all digital that some of this would be reduced, because lots of people have multiple TVs connected to analog now without paying extra charges.

ROTLFMAO. :D That may be the funniest thing ever posted on the AVSForum. A Cable/Satellite provider REDUCING a charge? They might combine the 2 and charge only 1 fee.

HDJello

05-08-06, 11:50 AM

ROTLFMAO. :D That may be the funniest thing ever posted on the AVSForum. A Cable/Satellite provider REDUCING a charge? They might combine the 2 and charge only 1 fee.
Glad to amuse your morning!

Realistically speaking, it is possible they will have a "dirt cheap" QAM tuner available for customers with SD sets, along the lines of the "dirt cheap" ATSC tuner promised for the OTA conversion, when they do remove all analog signals from their system.

mayest

05-08-06, 12:42 PM

I noticed that the pic in the upper right corner now does not have a smooth stream when on an HD channel. It's a tad stop motion now.

I don't know what to think about your problem with the pic window. Sounds like something is screwed up there.

As far as the screen postion, there is now a new screen position adjustment found on the first page of the setup guide.
Have you tryed that?

Thanks. I checked the screen position thing again and got it fixed. To me, this seems odd. What I wanted to do was move the guide to the right, so that is what I had originally tried with the screen position. It turns out that I had to move the "screen" to the left to get everything aligned. I'm not sure what that moves. Is it the guide, or the TV picture? I didn't check closely enough to know, but I suspect it moves the TV picture, not the guide.

This also fixed the small window in the upper right corner, so all is back to normal.

Your User Name:

05-08-06, 02:15 PM

That is currently the only DVR (although press releases of deals with Panasonic and Samsung that may be available). The cost for a second one in Boulder is 6.75 for a second digital outlet plus 9.95 for the DVR, which includes HD for free. I checked this recently because I wanted to add an HD box to my second TV (which is HD) thinking it would be $5.00 more, but it ended up being $11.95 more so for now I haven't done it, and am living with the built-in QAM tuner on the local OTA stuff for now.

I don't quite understand the 6.75 + 9.95 stuff. I hope when (if?) they go all digital that some of this would be reduced, because lots of people have multiple TVs connected to analog now without paying extra charges.

Okay, let be sure I understand. The 6412 will not work with the regular cable connection I have for the second TV. So in order to get DVR service on that TV, I must first upgrade my connection (for $9.95 -- is that a one time fee?) and then pay an additional monthly charge of $6.75 for the 6412?

HDJello

05-08-06, 02:19 PM

Okay, let be sure I understand. The 6412 will not work with the regular cable connection I have for the second TV. So in order to get DVR service on that TV, I must first upgrade my connection (for $9.95 -- is that a one time fee?) and then pay an additional monthly charge of $6.75 for the 6412?
No, the box should work with your existing connection. You could physically move the one you have to be sure. But you must pay a $6.75 charge per month for the "privilege" of having a second digital box (or it may be a base rental fee if you just got the cheapest non-HD one they have) and then also pay $9.95 per month for the second DVR, which is I guess is a delta cost. As LXIX suggested, it could in theory be combined into a single rental fee rather than two.

Couch Patato

05-08-06, 03:07 PM

Thanks. I checked the screen position thing again and got it fixed. To me, this seems odd. What I wanted to do was move the guide to the right, so that is what I had originally tried with the screen position. It turns out that I had to move the "screen" to the left to get everything aligned. I'm not sure what that moves. Is it the guide, or the TV picture? I didn't check closely enough to know, but I suspect it moves the TV picture, not the guide.

This also fixed the small window in the upper right corner, so all is back to normal.

Glad you got it fixed & glad I could help.:)

Your User Name:

05-08-06, 03:10 PM

No, the box should work with your existing connection. You could physically move the one you have to be sure. But you must pay a $6.75 charge per month for the "privilege" of having a second digital box (or it may be a base rental fee if you just got the cheapest non-HD one they have) and then also pay $9.95 per month for the second DVR, which is I guess is a delta cost. As LXIX suggested, it could in theory be combined into a single rental fee rather than two.

Yikes. Sure enough I called and they quoted me an additional $17/month to my bill. Thanks, but no thanks. :(

colofan

05-09-06, 03:35 PM

I have searched this thread and I can't seem to find any info if Comcast pass the tvgos guide or not for QAM tuners to use. Help anyone?

airberger

05-11-06, 12:59 PM

colofan,

Not sure what tvgos is, so I'm not sure if I'm answering your question or not. My TV has TV Guide built in and a QAM tuner. The TVGuide imports guide information for all analog channels but not for any digital channels, SD or HD. I'm in Boulder, don't know if that makes a difference.

colofan

05-11-06, 03:00 PM

Chiahead

05-11-06, 03:36 PM

Hi airberger,

well tvgos stands for TV Guide on Screen and yes I am looking for the host channel on the cable system to the clock will get set and I can receive guide infromation. I have had a DVR for over two weeks now and I can't even get the clock set yet. I live in the loveland area.

I use PBS to get the clock set on my TV, and I have TVGOS available on my TV, but have never gotten the information. I am in Parker.

ColoThistle

05-14-06, 04:13 PM

gakon

05-14-06, 06:59 PM

I had a 6412 III that never output via component from the time I picked it up. I could not check the HDMI port, as my TV has a DVI input and I don't have an adapter, but it did output via S-video. It may be a little more unusual to have an output fail after working fine for a while, but anything is possible. The only problem is that if you have something stored that you wanted to keep, unless you download it to a PC you can no longer keep it.
Let us know what this "LS" box is.

BobLikesHDTV

05-15-06, 10:55 AM

My 6412 III stopped showing video out of the HDMI port (it works with component cables). Did anyone else have this happen? Comcast told me to take it in and replace it with the new "LS" box, which I've not heard of before. The video worked fine on Friday night and just today developed this glitch.

My IEEE 1394 cable stopped working properly over the last week on my Phase II.

I also noticed with the software upgrade of the last few weeks, that, when I set up a series recording for New, First Run, rather than record each new, first run episode of a program, it will WRITE OVER the same, earlier recording.

Example:
Last night there were two new, first run West Wings. The first one recorded fine. When the second one came on, it WROTE OVER the first one.

Why does ComCrash make things so difficult?

Your User Name:

05-15-06, 11:19 AM

My IEEE 1394 cable stopped working properly over the last week on my Phase II.

I also noticed with the software upgrade of the last few weeks, that, when I set up a series recording for New, First Run, rather than record each new, first run episode of a program, it will WRITE OVER the same, earlier recording.

Example:
Last night there were two new, first run West Wings. The first one recorded fine. When the second one came on, it WROTE OVER the first one.

Why does ComCrash make things so difficult?
I thought the first West Wing last night was the pilot. There was only one hour of new content last night, right?

ColoThistle

05-15-06, 11:39 AM

I think they have done some sort of security upgrade. I have an Infocus 5000. When I first got it, it worked fine through the DVI port. Then it stopped working (just like now), but gave me an HDCP error message. After switching boxes several times and getting this PIII, I upgraded the firmware on the Infocus to ver 10. The problem went away. Now, I have the same issue, without the HDCP warning. If you turn the PIII off and then back on, it shows the picture for a second, then it goes black, as if it is being blocked for some reason. But, of course, Comcast tech support doesn't know anything about this.

weldon

05-15-06, 06:56 PM

I also noticed with the software upgrade of the last few weeks, that, when I set up a series recording for New, First Run, rather than record each new, first run episode of a program, it will WRITE OVER the same, earlier recording.

Example:
Last night there were two new, first run West Wings. The first one recorded fine. When the second one came on, it WROTE OVER the first one.

Why does ComCrash make things so difficult?
How is your series recording setup? My box recorded both episodes just fine, but I have my series set up to save 5 episodes. You don't have it set to only save 1 episode, do you?

ColoThistle

05-15-06, 11:15 PM

Update: I talked to Infocus and they confirmed that it was an HDCP problem and (even though I had already tried this) I should turn off both the box and the projector and the HDCP codes should sync up. Sure enough, when I tried this tonight, it finally worked. Apparently there are some newer HDCP codes that aren't in older equipment and when the box tries to sync a newer code it sees the projector as non-HDCP compliant.

BobLikesHDTV

05-16-06, 12:30 PM

I thought the first West Wing last night was the pilot. There was only one hour of new content last night, right?

It was listed as NEW on the program guide. It recorded and we began to watch it about 7:30 PM. Then the cable box suddenly rebooted on its own at about 7:55PM. I decided we should watch the 8PM version live, just in case the box crashed and didn't record it. Unfortunately, it simply wrote over the 7-8 rerun of the first episode with the 8-9 new show.

Can't wait for the Panasonic. Can't wait. Next year. It's coming.

BobLikesHDTV

05-16-06, 12:34 PM

How is your series recording setup? My box recorded both episodes just fine, but I have my series set up to save 5 episodes. You don't have it set to only save 1 episode, do you?

Good idea. The only problem with that is the dozen or so times a week they run the same new program on FX, HBO, and soforth. I'm assuming the same new episode records about 5 times?

mayest

05-16-06, 01:25 PM

Good idea. The only problem with that is the dozen or so times a week they run the same new program on FX, HBO, and soforth. I'm assuming the same new episode records about 5 times?

Yup, that's one of the things that really bothers me. I seem to have the most problems with Showtime. The guide always seems to think that repeats of new shows are new so they get recorded too. One of the many nice features of TiVo is that it recognizes that you have previously recorded something so it won't re-record it.

Couch Patato

05-16-06, 03:58 PM

I have had my box set for series recording for The 4400 & The Dead Zone since last spring. It recorded evey new ep. through the summer. Once the reruns started it has not recorded ONE SINGLE rerun.

Now, we'll see if it records the new eps here pretty soon.

Your User Name:

05-16-06, 04:55 PM

It was listed as NEW on the program guide. It recorded and we began to watch it about 7:30 PM. Then the cable box suddenly rebooted on its own at about 7:55PM. I decided we should watch the 8PM version live, just in case the box crashed and didn't record it. Unfortunately, it simply wrote over the 7-8 rerun of the first episode with the 8-9 new show.
That's interesting. Mine never had the 7:00-8:00 episode listed as new. There was a retrospective that was listed as a new episode a couple of weeks ago, but I guess that was replaced by the pilot and, when it was, my guide only had the last episode, "Tomorrow," listed as a new episode. Seems strange that two different boxes on the same system would get different guide info.

weldon

05-16-06, 07:38 PM

Good idea. The only problem with that is the dozen or so times a week they run the same new program on FX, HBO, and soforth. I'm assuming the same new episode records about 5 times?
I suppose that might happen. But honestly, why not just deal with it? I'd rather be sure to have the episodes I want and take the minute or two to delete dupes. I know TiVo is better (I had a DirecTiVo for a few years - and loved it), but still, the 6412 is pretty capable. It records what I want, when I want and I haven't had any issues with it.

In any case, you didn't answer my question - why do you think the 6412 deleted the first episode? Was it because you set it to record only one episode? or was there some other problem? Was the original recording lost when the box rebooted? Was it there when the second episode began? I've seen problems like the 1989 recording when I've lost power at home. In that case, a recording was lost because the index was screwed up from the power outage. Maybe that's what happened to you?

wmarkw

05-23-06, 09:40 AM

So will the Denver market get ESPN2HD on June 1? Looks like the eastern market will. Hopefully they will let us have that and TNTHD in time for the NBA playoffs to go to ABC......

raidbuck

05-23-06, 10:26 AM

So will the Denver market get ESPN2HD on June 1? Looks like the eastern market will. Hopefully they will let us have that and TNTHD in time for the NBA playoffs to go to ABC......

Go to the Comcast website and put in your zip code and then check the channel lineup. It is listed with a box in my zip, 21014, saying coming June 1, 2006.

Baltimore City is also supposed to get NFLHD on July 1st, but it isn't listed for my zip code. You might check that as well.

Rich N.

gakon

05-23-06, 10:30 AM

So will the Denver market get ESPN2HD on June 1? Looks like the eastern market will. Hopefully they will let us have that and TNTHD in time for the NBA playoffs to go to ABC......I would not hold my breath. They didn't give us TNT last year, why would they do it this year?

colofan

05-23-06, 10:55 AM

I have a sony dvr that receives QAM but it uses TVGOS for guide and time information. I called comcast and in loveland they said to tune to channel 8 to get the guide data. Well it has been a couple of weeks now and still no clock or guide. Does anyone here know how this works on comcast in colorado? I turned back in the mot 6412 it just doesn't work very well at least for me.....Assistance anyone? Links?

dd2

05-31-06, 12:43 AM

FX used to be on QAM 103.6 on Comcast. That is now showing up as encrypted. Does anyone know if FX was moved to a different QAM channel, or did Comcast start encrypting it?

Thanks much!

GutBomb

06-01-06, 06:26 PM

last night my 3412 (for the 2nd time) lost all channels above #628. They do not show up in the guide or anything. So I called to get them to fix it. they sent a reboot signal they called an "init" to it the first time and that fixed it) Well, this time it didn't. Once it came back up HDMI didn't work anymore. they sent an init to both of my boxes "just in case" (CSR logic). Anyway, since then neither box works with HDMI anymore. I can hook it up via component cables just fine, but no HDMI. I'm pretty upset because my TV has only 1 component and 1 HDMI and component is being occupied by my xbox. The error I get is a HDCP non-compliance error, even though I know A) My TV is compliant, and B) It worked up until 6:50 PM yesterday when they sent the inits. I was told to go to a payment center and exchange my box. well, I did. same problem.

I tried my 6412 on my tv with the same HDMI cable and got the same problem as well (i never knew if this one worked before, but the 3412 certainly did)

Is trying a different HDMI cable worthwhile? if so I'll have to order one.

Has anyone else seen this problem or a workaround?

HDJello

06-01-06, 10:23 PM

Has anyone else seen this problem or a workaround?
There was a post a page or two back about someone with a projector having a similar problem. It required resetting the box and the projector in a certain way in a certain order. Not clear it would apply to you.

wmarkw

06-08-06, 12:26 PM

So will Denver area get ESPN2HD that is rumored to start airing tonight or tomorrow in time for the World Cup? Not sure how Denver’s Bandwidth is and since we don’t have TNT-HD that means we’re screwed? I know the ESPN2HD has been a hot rumor for the last month but according to some posts in the HD Programming threads a Comcast insider confirmed roll out is imminent. Just wondering what our chances are?

Mark

gakon

06-08-06, 05:18 PM

Just wondering what our chances are?Slim and none. I have never heard what the real constaint is for the area. CSR's will never explicitly state that it's a capacity issue. Comcast made a big deal a couple of years ago when they "upgraded" all of their equipment, but I think that was to go to a common system for the metro area (Aurora was different than most other areas, IIRC) and to provide the capability for On Demand. But they had the bandwidth to add KTVD a while ago (the Comcast web site says 6/1/06, but it was available well before then). Maybe it's because they aren't broadcasting in HD. But we don't have TNT, and we weren't able to keep Universal after the Olympics, so I think it's unlikely we'll see ESPN2. I hope I'm wrong, but I also would prefer other channels over this one, since I don't think they broadcast that much in HD yet.

weldon

06-08-06, 07:17 PM

Has anyone been successful in scheduling a series recording for the World Cup games? They all show up in the guide as "world cup soccer" and you can see multiple times in the program info, but I can only schedule individual programs to be recorded, not a series.

HDNair

06-08-06, 10:03 PM

Slim and none. I have never heard what the real constaint is for the area. CSR's will never explicitly state that it's a capacity issue. Comcast made a big deal a couple of years ago when they "upgraded" all of their equipment, but I think that was to go to a common system for the metro area (Aurora was different than most other areas, IIRC) and to provide the capability for On Demand. But they had the bandwidth to add KTVD a while ago (the Comcast web site says 6/1/06, but it was available well before then). Maybe it's because they aren't broadcasting in HD. But we don't have TNT, and we weren't able to keep Universal after the Olympics, so I think it's unlikely we'll see ESPN2. I hope I'm wrong, but I also would prefer other channels over this one, since I don't think they broadcast that much in HD yet.

I wouldn't mind if we got ESPN2 for a month in place on INHD2 ala what happened with the Olympics... but I'd agree that if they were to permanantly add a channel, ESPN2 would be low on my wish list. Of course, I'm convinced Comcast won't be adding anything in this area until they start losing a significant number of customers. They'd lose me if E* offered a reasonable deal on their DVR.

BobLikesHDTV

06-09-06, 01:35 AM

I wouldn't mind if we got ESPN2 for a month in place on INHD2 ala what happened with the Olympics... but I'd agree that if they were to permanantly add a channel, ESPN2 would be low on my wish list. Of course, I'm convinced Comcast won't be adding anything in this area until they start losing a significant number of customers. They'd lose me if E* offered a reasonable deal on their DVR.

E* only broadcasts at 2/3ds HD.

It's commonly called HD-lite.

Supposedly next year Comcast rolls out the Panasonic (a 3-tuner DVR) and Samsung (set-top, no DVR) boxes that will use Mpeg-4 compression. This should allow them to transmit all the HD available. Not saying they will. But at that point they can, if bandswidth is the issue.

Haven't heard anything more about a delivery date since reading the news out of the CES show in Las Vegas, this past January.

http://www.cmcsk.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=147565&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=800562&highlight=

Here's an article about the specs, from AVS Forum this past Feb...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640348

BobLikesHDTV

06-09-06, 01:45 AM

You may or may not find the article at the following link interesting. I did. I wish the writer would have gotten Comcast CEO Roberts on the record.

Apparently cable companies stand to lose tons of market share if they don't act quickly to increase HD.

Wish they would tell that to Comcast Denver.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/hidef.html

GutBomb

06-09-06, 08:51 AM

E* only broadcasts at 2/3ds HD.

It's commonly called HD-lite.

on 1080i channels they do this. they get rid of some of the horizontal resolution to compress the image. it's not reall noticable until someone tells you what's happening. it still looks incredibly clear compared to SD. and they only do it to some channels. they don't do it at all on 720p channels like fox, espn, espn2, abc. also the 2 HDNet channels are full 1080i, while the voom channels are downrezzed HD-Lite, but seriously, the only reason you and 90% of the others know it's downrezzed is because you read it somewhere. you can't see the difference.

HDNair

06-09-06, 09:31 AM

E* only broadcasts at 2/3ds HD.

It's commonly called HD-lite.
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I've read about that. First off, I'm doing HD on a budget... I only have a 32" display. I can understand people with a display twice the size might see the difference but I seriously doubt it makes a bit of difference on my display. Secondly, content matters. There's no getting around that. Garbage in eye popping 1080i is still garbage. A great film in HD Lite is still a great film. I've looked at the schedules of HDNet Movies and it absolutely, brutally destroys the content of any channel Comcast offers, including the premium channels. And according to GutBomb that channel isn't HD Lite anyway.

HDJello

06-09-06, 10:27 AM

on 1080i channels they do this. they get rid of some of the horizontal resolution to compress the image. it's not reall noticable until someone tells you what's happening. it still looks incredibly clear compared to SD. and they only do it to some channels. they don't do it at all on 720p channels like fox, espn, espn2, abc. also the 2 HDNet channels are full 1080i, while the voom channels are downrezzed HD-Lite, but seriously, the only reason you and 90% of the others know it's downrezzed is because you read it somewhere. you can't see the difference.
I have heard that the HD LIL 1080i stations are somewhat downrezzed, but to 1080x1440 or so rather than 1080x1280 done with the voom channels. Pretty much D* is doing 1080x1280 on all the 1080i channels. There are rumors of some excess compression on the 720p channels also, but I haven't seen the hard numbers.

I think that one's ability to "see the difference" depends a lot on the set that is being used. For example, one of my sets is native 720p resolution, and is only 26", so it would be difficult to see it. My other set is native 1080i resolution, but still only has 1400 or so horizontal pixels per line, so I probably couldn't really notice it there either. But if you have a 1080p native set (is roller11 still lurking?) that can display full or nearly full 1920 horizontal pixes, then you are much more likely to notice something. It really depends on how well the set can deal with it. My guess is subsequent generation 1080p sets will do a better job of dealing with this, given the materials that are available from the suppliers.

I think the bigger issue with the HDlite is the significantly reduced bit-rate, which can cause large-scale artifacts which you would notice on almost any set. In general E* is supposedly better at this than D*. Comcast seems to be delivering sufficient bit rates on all of the channels that this happens much less frequently.

squidboy

06-09-06, 11:16 AM

I think the bigger issue with the HDlite is the significantly reduced bit-rate, which can cause large-scale artifacts which you would notice on almost any set. In general E* is supposedly better at this than D*. Comcast seems to be delivering sufficient bit rates on all of the channels that this happens much less frequently.

I have D* and the bit starving is definately noticeable. A few weeks ago, DirecTV had a free preview of their top level package, which includes all the premium channels. I watched a few movies on HBO HD and Showtime HD. Macroblocking was very obvious and annoying. In some cases, it was bad enough that I wished I had just put in a DVD instead of watching HD mush.

I haven't seen E* or Comcast HD, but it can't be any worse than this.

jpco

06-09-06, 12:50 PM

I switched from D* to Comcast in December and the difference in quality, mainly compression artifacts, is noticeable. The HD is much more crisp and the SD, digital and analog, are much more watchable. This is on a direct-view 34" screen at 7 ft viewing distance. I don't believe I would be able to see downrezzed effects on my set, but the overcompression is obvious.

I know many on these boards still refute this, but D*'s quality does not even come close to that of Comcast (in this area) to my eyes.

patrickjherbert

06-09-06, 06:23 PM

After a year and a half away with Dish, I am getting Comcast reinstalled a week from tomorrow. We decided to do a bundle of phone, internet and cable. I've been reading nothing but horror stories about the Mororola STB that they use for the HD-DVR, though that seems to have cooled off the last month or two in this forum.

Are any of you still experiencing major malfunctions with the Motorola 6412? I'm making a wild guess that is what they will be bringing out.

And if anyone would like to comment on dumping Dish for Comcast, I'd love to hear it before the fact. They sure seem to have a boatload more HD content on Dish, but it was going to cost me a small fortune to buy a couple of HD-DVRs (without the DVRs I was faced with a mutiny on my own damn ship, even from the dog.) Over the long haul Comcast will cost me more, but I also really missed cable internet (hint: stay away from Earthlink DSL.)

Anyway, football season will be here before we know it, and with my total inability to get Fox 31 OTA in HD (which is another LONG story that my wife would love to tell you,) and Monday Night Football going to ESPN, I figured it was time to make the change.

Thanks!

jpco

06-09-06, 06:59 PM

My Motorola 6412 has been pretty solid. Before the latest software update, I'd have to reboot once or twice a week to get digital audio out of it. Now, the only problem is once in a while when pausing a recording, there is no audio on restarting it. Pressing stop and then play again takes care of the problem.

Overall, I've been very impressed with the picture quality and have found the DVR to be acceptable, although a larger drive would be preferable. I don't see how the satellite companies are getting $300 for the privilege of leasing their DVRs when cable isn't charging any upfront money.

Roxpert

06-09-06, 10:55 PM

I went through the conversion from E* to the Comcast triple play last month, and I'm thrilled with the savings and the product.

When I got my Panasonic 50 inch Plasma, I called E* to get the best deal possible on an HD DVR. Not only do they ask for $300 upfront and $12/mo of DVR/leasing fees, my monthly bill would have risen by $30 per month, from $56 to $86 for the HD tier.

Comcast, on the other hand, won me back with an unbelievable deal. Not only are their no upfront or monthly DVR charges, but my monthly package is $39.95 per month, including HBO, plus $10 per month for HD. The internet service is actually packaged in at an extra $30, and voice service is $29.95 per month the first three months, and $39.95 after.

All in all, the difference between my staying with Qwest and The Dish Network versus doing it all through Comcast was huge. My total savings the first year is about $800. No contracts, so if I wanted to go back to E* for HD after my savings are realized in a year, I could easily do it, though I doubt I will.

The Comcast HD tier does need to be beefed up, but the VOD service makes up for it. I counted 338 FREE VOD movies available, and they are rotating it all the time. Many HD movies available on VOD for free, with quite a few for free.

Today, I think E* lowered the price for the HD DVR to $199, but you'd still save many hundreds by bundling with Comcast.

I have the Motorola 3412 HD DVR, and everything is in digital on that box (no analog). It works fine.