Now that so many of us have gotten this TV, I'm repeating an earlier post in order to start a new thread on the use of the Panny.
--------
Got my component cables in 2 days from Blue Jeans Cable (I use long ones) and the picture is very much improved from S-video. That is no surprise.

However, using the Faroudja chip in my Philips dvd963sa to do the progressive scan is much much better than letting the TV do it. Thge picture is far sharper. And that is still with the original factory settings on the dvd player. There are many adjustments possible.

I suppose that one way that Panasonic may have saved money in this set is not to have the best progressive scan chip set available. OTOH Samsung uses a Faroudja.

I'm saving the DVI for an OTA HDTV tuner due next week.
--------

In addition, to respond to a post on the "Availability" thread, as a good start to getting the most PQ, you might want to look into pre-ordering the new Digital Video Essentials disk at Amazon.com. It's a lot cheaper (and presumably more up to date) than the Avia and will be released in the first few days in September.

Originally posted by MLM
Now that so many of us have gotten this TV...

Wait a minute.. I've been away for awhile, but is this the NEW panasonic rpLCD, the one that looks similar to their new plasmas?

Yes Doug, that is the one being talked about here.

Here are user klemsaba's settings on his set using Component 1, AVIA and his Toshiba 3900 DVD player.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?postid=2579479&fullpage=1

Shawn

We need someone to find out the service code to get in to the service menu!

Shawn

Originally posted by MLM
However, using the Faroudja chip in my Philips dvd963sa to do the progressive scan is much much better than letting the TV do it. Thge picture is far sharper. And that is still with the original factory settings on the dvd player. There are many adjustments possible.


How do you disable progressive scanning on the Panny TV? I didn't know that you could do this.

my problem-when I use pip or split, and an analog cable feed direct from the wall, my right side picture is filled with snow. Anyone have a similar problem? Any suggestions?

I am "this" close to buying this TV, but I need to ask a couple of quick questions to those of you who already own it. I saw the tv in BB and thought the black levels were not as good as the Sammy DLP's. I watch a lot of scifi DVD's (lots of dark scenes). Do the black levels bother you?

I am considering purchasing either the Bravo D1 or the Sammy 931 DVD players. (Both have DVI out, but I hear the sammy has trouble with 4:3 material because it stretches it to fill the screen and there's no way to change that setting, so I'm leaning toward the Bravo.) Do any of you have these connected to the panny? Are you happy with the picture via dvi? The reason I ask is that folks with the Samung DLP tv's and a dvi dvd player are ECSTATIC about the picture. I want to know if the new Panny owners feel the same way.

I'd love save the $1000 or more and get the panny, but I don't want to "settle" on the picture quality and wish I'd gone with a Sammy DLP.

Thanks for any comments you can provide!

Originally posted by Master-G
How do you disable progressive scanning on the Panny TV? I didn't know that you could do this.

I'm assuming that if the Panny receives an interlaced signal it converts it to progressive, and that if it receives a progressive signal, it disables its own progressive conversion. Of course the manual says nothing about this.

In any event there is a clear difference when I use the progressive output of my DVD player or not--in both cases using the component output/input. In addition, using the progressive output gives me a few very useful set-up controls not available on the DVD player otherwise.

Anyone with a progressive output DVD player should probably try it both ways.

My set was just deliverd, but it had no manual. :(

I finally found the buttons to get the menu up, but I can't seem to find out how to get the 'Component 3' or 'Video 1' off of the screen; the input message is always there in the upper right corner.

In addition, I'm a bit baffeled by the options in the 'Video' menu, and by the 'Dynamic' option in the picture menu. Could someone with a manual briefly describe them?

(I don't see the manual on-line yet.)

One more thing, were there any 'when you first power on the Tv' precautions in the manual?

Grov

Originally posted by gcbrowni
My set was just deliverd, but it had no manual. :(

The manual should be on the bottom of the TV. Once you lifted it out the box along with the warranty card.

Nope. Under the set was the second place I checked. It's not taped to the back or in the box either. I have a new one coming in 7-10 days, but I'd like to get tid of the source message, at least, before then.

:)

Grov

I am "this" close to buying this TV, but I need to ask a couple of quick questions to those of you who already own it. I saw the tv in BB and thought the black levels were not as good as the Sammy DLP's. I watch a lot of scifi DVD's (lots of dark scenes). Do the black levels bother you?


Get the TV.

I just re-watched Lord of the Rings. The dark scenes are detailed and the bright scenes are vibrant. It's never going to be true black with the current LCD RPTV.

I canceled a DVI player on order, because I was so pleased with the PQ after hooking it up to my Panasonic DVD player (with the cheap component cable that came with the Zenith 520 receiver). I couldn't justify spending another $200 for the first generation DVI players right now. The improvement better be day and night. If I do get a DVI player, it has to have a disc changer.

Originally posted by mlandau
my problem-when I use pip or split, and an analog cable feed direct from the wall, my right side picture is filled with snow. Anyone have a similar problem? Any suggestions?

Mine works fine. Did you try the PIP and see how it looks like? Sounds like the other tuner is bad. This set has dual tuners.

Originally posted by darthemma
I am "this" close to buying this TV, but I need to ask a couple of quick questions to those of you who already own it. I saw the tv in BB and thought the black levels were not as good as the Sammy DLP's. I watch a lot of scifi DVD's (lots of dark scenes). Do the black levels bother you?


So far it seems that you can adjust the set to get all the detail you want in the darker scenes, though on an absolute basis you can't get the blacks as dark as you may want. The Panny has plenty of brightness and contrast to work with.

My DVD player in progressive mode has a "Gamma" control which it says, "allows you to bring out low level detail in dark scenes". But I haven't played with it yet.

Does anyone know about the filters that some Wega owners have put in their monitors?

MLM, for more information, read up in UMR's thread on the GW2's, and also take some time to search through the front projection forums (both under $5k and over $5k) to read up on color correction and other types of filters that people have used to improve black levels. These things DO work. My guess is that they will work rather well with this Panny set, mostly because it seems to have such an overly bright picture out of the box.

Which DVD players are you all using with your set and are you happy with it? I'm debating between a DVI player (but the choices are very limited) or a good progressive scan player.

Originally posted by darthemma
Which DVD players are you all using with your set and are you happy with it? I'm debating between a DVI player (but the choices are very limited) or a good progressive scan player.
My Philips dvd963sa gives me as good quality as anything I've ever seen from a DVD. As I wrote above, and on another thread, the PQ using its progressive output is awesome. But it's an expensive unity that I bought primarily for its audio quality (which doesn't hurt on some of the DVDs with great music). I would have bought it even if did not do video!

To me it's also important to save the DVI input for true HDTV either over the air or by any other means.

If I were you and if HDTV is in your future I would hop to the DVD player part of the forum and gather in the wisdom there for a player with SOTA progressive output.

MLM,

To see what the filters do you should get your hands on the Kodak Color Print Viewing Filter Kit. This kit has a large selection of filters that you can look through. This will help you select the right filter or filters for your set.

Originally posted by darthemma
Which DVD players are you all using with your set and are you happy with it?

I'm using a Panasonic DVD-RP91 with my PT-50LC13 and am very pleased with the PQ. I'm saving my DVI input for D* and won't be buying a DVI-capable DVD player.

Let's see if this works to get into SERVICE MODE...

I am not currently at home, but maybe someone could try this before I get there and let us know if it works. I am quoting this from another post located here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2178806&highlight=PT40LC12#post2178806


Here's one way to check Lamp runtime status --

Enter Service Mode: With the TV powered off (make sure it's off for a few minutes before trying this, or you'll wait for the customary cooldown period before anything happens if you turn the set off and try this stuff immediately), press and hold both the "VOLUME Down" button on the TV itself and the TV/VIDEO key on the remote control simultaneously for about 7 seconds (they say over 5 seconds in the manual). The TV will be turned on and it will have a screen full of status data atop an active TV channel.

Next, press the SWAP/STOP key on the remote for more than 5 seconds.

You should be taken to a screen that has " LAMP/FILTER/IIC" as a selectable entity. Press the Action key to select it and move to the next screen of info.

You'll see a status screen with the number of Service Mode Resets of the Lamp run time (I inadvertently reset my Lamp to 0 hrs after 95 hours of initial operation, and I'll show you how to avoid that in a minute). You'll also see Total Time, which I assume is total TV run time, Lamp Run Time, and Filter Time, all in hours.

You can backchain to the the prior screens with the Recall button on remote.

To exit this service mode entirely, you must turn off the TV.

You can also enter a different service mode menu to control a number of parameters, as I first learned from Doug McDonald at this link >> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...hlight=pt40lc12 when I was trying to learn how to perform service mode color adjustments.

Depress the "Volume Down" button on the set itself while concurrently depressing the "Recall" key on the remote for about seven seconds, and you'll be taken into "Work Mode". At this point, you can press the Action key, and select "Information", where you'll not only see Input mode (as usual) but also Lamp Run Time (but not Filter time or total run time).

You can enter the more advanced service mode menu by pressing and holding the Volume Down button down on the set itself while concurrently depressing the SWAP/STOP key on the remote for more than five seconds. -- This displayed a Factory Adjust menu, with bunch of settings. See Doug's message for more details. (Do not press Vol Down on the set and PIP/PLAY on remote simultaneously, or you'll reset the Lamp time to 0hrs as I did !)

Unfortunately, the service manual does not describe all the tweakable settings in the Factory Adjust menu.......

Nick Stam
PC Mag and ExtremeTech

I imagine this will work, but can someone try it and see. If not, I'll check it out in a few hours when I get home.

Thanks,
-Shawn

how long is the dvi cable that comes with the panny?

Originally posted by darthemma
how long is the dvi cable that comes with the panny?

2 meters.

So far I've checked the 1st procedure above and I can get to the Lamp Screen, but there is no SWAP/STOP button on our remote, so I don't know what to push next...

Also, the 2nd mode works, but I don't know what to push instead of the SWAP/STOP button to get to the other screens...

Shawn

Any body have any luck with discrete IR input selection codes? A post in the original thread told a buyer to get a "decent" remote control - I assume that would be one with macro capabilities. Does the manual (which I haven't been able to find for download) indicate anything about discrete IR codes?

I wondered if folks think it's a good idean to buy the extended warranty for this set? I can get 5 years (including annual cleaning) for $500 at Sears. The extended warranty includes the bulb. Is it a good idea?

There is a SWAP button at the bottom of the remote and STOP button a few rows above. Maybe you can try either of them.

The manual, like any other CE manuals, says absolutly nothing about discrete codes.

Originally posted by darthemma
I wondered if folks think it's a good idean to buy the extended warranty for this set? I can get 5 years (including annual cleaning) for $500 at Sears. The extended warranty includes the bulb. Is it a good idea?

According to the Sears website, the warranty is $399 for 5 years. Are you sure that the warranty includes the bulb? Did a sales associate tell you that is does? Most forumers have said that BB and CC warranties do not cover bulb replacement, not sure about Sears, so this would be a great bonus.

IMO, I would get the warranty if the bulb replacement is not included. If the bulb is included, it would be a no-brainer.

Originally posted by Brodequin
According to the Sears website, the warranty is $399 for 5 years. Are you sure that the warranty includes the bulb? Did a sales associate tell you that is does?

The sales associate confirmed that the warranty does cover the bulb.

Originally posted by Foxbat121
There is a SWAP button at the bottom of the remote and STOP button a few rows above. Maybe you can try either of them....

Thanks, but I already tried both of those, and they didn't work, not when pushed individually or simultaneously.

Shawn

I just bought this tv and hooked it up tonight using RCA composite cables. I have DirectTV and the picture looks horrible. The image is out of focus and blotchy. Especially along the edge of the screen. It kind of looks like the Directv image when its raining. The DVD looks better but still appears a little out of focus. Is it the cables that I'm using. I didn't notice this at all on my 25" CRT TV.

The manual says that condensation could be on the optics and will clear after the power has been on awhile. Any advice would be great.

Thanks,
Steve

Originally posted by tooley222
I just bought this tv and hooked it up tonight using RCA composite cables. I have DirectTV and the picture looks horrible. The image is out of focus and blotchy. Especially along the edge of the screen. It kind of looks like the Directv image when its raining. The DVD looks better but still appears a little out of focus. Is it the cables that I'm using. I didn't notice this at all on my 25" CRT TV.

The manual says that condensation could be on the optics and will clear after the power has been on awhile. Any advice would be great.

Thanks,
Steve

You need to use good component cables, not composite.

Composite will look like crap with almost any tv, you need to use at minimum an S-Video connection (which will be 200% better than composite) or up the scale to component or dvi. The leap from s-video to component will not be as great as he diff you get from going to s-video from composite (imho).

Originally posted by tooley222
I just bought this tv and hooked it up tonight using RCA composite cables. I have DirectTV and the picture looks horrible. The image is out of focus and blotchy. Especially along the edge of the screen. It kind of looks like the Directv image when its raining. The DVD looks better but still appears a little out of focus. Is it the cables that I'm using. I didn't notice this at all on my 25" CRT TV.

The manual says that condensation could be on the optics and will clear after the power has been on awhile. Any advice would be great.

Thanks,
Steve

You definitely need to at least hook up your DTV with a good quality S-Video cable, and use a component cable for your DVD.

You probably didn't notice as much garbage on your 25" TV, because it was only 1/2 as big. When you go with a screen 2x larger, you will see 2x more artifacts/junk, so it is even more important to get some good cables, and definitely don't use composite.

-Shawn

Actually, a 50" tv is about 4x larger than a 25" - ahhh, I do remember geometry class.

Originally posted by darthemma
Actually, a 50" tv is about 4x larger than a 25" - ahhh, I do remember geometry class.

:p

(I was being a bit simple when I typed that, and wasn't thinking geometric thoughts...)

Well, I finally did it! I gave up waiting for the Philips LCOS and went with the PT-50LC13. I got it home and did a preliminary hook up to my older model Dishnet receiver via S-video connection and it doesn't look too bad. Had a couple issues though:

1) The manual doesn't say anything about discrete IR codes - may have to resort to PRONTO IR manipulation utilities to try and find them at random.

2) Color needs more lower level tweaking (Service menu? / AVIA) as the depth just isn't there. One set I saw at CC in Mountain View was nearly indistinguishable from an adjacent plasma (good) but the ones I have seen elsewhere were no where near as good.

3)There were some partial scan line breakup (I now scan line isn't proper but thats the easiest way to visualize it) at the very top of the screen. I went into the vertical position adjust menu and max'd out the slider to right (top) and the problem went away when displaying images edge to edge vertically. But, when using split screen in "normal" mode, the top row of pixels of the smaller image still has the jitters.

Originally posted by vfr700

3)There were some partial scan line breakup (I now scan line isn't proper but thats the easiest way to visualize it) at the very top of the screen. I went into the vertical position adjust menu and max'd out the slider to right (top) and the problem went away when displaying images edge to edge vertically. But, when using split screen in "normal" mode, the top row of pixels of the smaller image still has the jitters.
I saw the demo set at the Mt. View CC displaying DVD input via component and it was doing the same thing but it was both top and bottom.

Originally posted by vfr700
...2) Color needs more lower level tweaking (Service menu? / AVIA) as the depth just isn't there. One set I saw at CC in Mountain View was nearly indistinguishable from an adjacent plasma (good) but the ones I have seen elsewhere were no where near as good....

This is my biggest problem with this set. I would like to see what a service menu adjusted set is capable of.

I connected my DVD Player through component video cables and the picture looks fuzzy. Nowhere near as bad as the Directv Image which I'm using composite cables for, but it doesn't look sharp. My DirecTV receiver only has an S-Video output. I need to hit Target and get one.

I just connected my directv receiver with S video cables and the image still looks very bad. There was no difference between the S video and composite cables. It has the same look when its raining hard and the image isn't coming in clear. The DVD looks a lot better but is still blurry. Could my TV be defective or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Steve

Originally posted by tooley222
I connected my DVD Player through component video cables and the picture looks fuzzy. Nowhere near as bad as the Directv Image which I'm using composite cables for, but it doesn't look sharp. My DirecTV receiver only has an S-Video output. I need to hit Target and get one.

Hmmm, sounds like maybe a defective set, or something is not quite set right. My Dish Network looks good, and DVD's are very clear and have an excellent picture.

Shawn

I just purchased the PT-50LC13 (upgrade from an old 27" tube tv). I believe optimal viewing distance is at least 5-6 from TV but can anyone comment if stting 16 feet from this tv is to far away.

Also, having some trouble finding a decent stand for this tv (Ideally would find one which has some sort of cabinet to hide DVDs, etc). Stand selection seeems further complicated by the fact that middle suround sound speaker will need to be place on a stand shelf as it will not rest on top of the tv.

Sully

Center speaker mounting:
It looks like the set has a mount for a center speaker on the back towards the top in the form of a bump with a hole. This might have been intended for mounting the TV in some manner but might serve as an acceptable mount for a DIY backet maker. My center channel is already mounted on the wall or I would have pursued this concept.

Originally posted by vfr700
Center speaker mounting:
It looks like the set has a mount for a center speaker on the back towards the top in the form of a bump with a hole. This might have been intended for mounting the TV in some manner but might serve as an acceptable mount for a DIY backet maker. My center channel is already mounted on the wall or I would have pursued this concept.

If you had read the manual ;) you would know that hole in the back of the set towards the top is to anchor it to the wall. A safety feature a lot of TV's are getting to keep kids from tipping the set over on top of them.

Shawn

Originally posted by vfr700
Center speaker mounting:
It looks like the set has a mount for a center speaker on the back towards the top in the form of a bump with a hole. This might have been intended for mounting the TV in some manner but might serve as an acceptable mount for a DIY backet maker. My center channel is already mounted on the wall or I would have pursued this concept.

I wouldn't try this concept. The upper back portion of the TV where the big slop is hosts the mirror inside to reflect images from LCD to your screen. If by any chance you deformed the part or damaged the mirror inside, you'll be looking at a useless TV in your house.

Did this thread dry up? Looks like it has been slow for the last few days. I was hoping this one would continue for serviee menu teaks, etc.

The thing I am wrestling with at the moment is the settings for various lighting conditions. It seems like I want to adjust the brightness upon the transition to day to night and vice versa.

Has anyone gotten into the service menu yet?

Thanks,

Originally posted by vfr700
Center speaker mounting:
It looks like the set has a mount for a center speaker on the back towards the top in the form of a bump with a hole. This might have been intended for mounting the TV in some manner but might serve as an acceptable mount for a DIY backet maker. My center channel is already mounted on the wall or I would have pursued this concept.

The hole on the upper rear of the TV is an antenna mount (for rabbit ears), but is listed in the manual as an anchor spot for securing the TV to a wall to keep it from falling forward. I used a rabbit ear antenna, removed the leads/metal expandable rods, and attached chains to the antenna bracket for wall mounting. The antenna bracket plugged into the hole in the back. Here's a picture.

JG,

Very cool - nice clean factory look. Where did you purchase the rabbit ear or what brand are they? I haven't looked at rabbit ears much lately - is it common for them to have a pin for the base?

Has anybody measured the color temperature(s) of these gizmos?

Doug McDonald

To all,

Show us some pictures of your pany setup.

Originally posted by Tweakophyte
Has anyone gotten into the service menu yet?

Thanks,

Check my posts on the previous page of this thread.

Shawn

Thought I'd try again. The earlier post about the service menu was for Panny LC12 sets.

Has anyone successfully gotten to the service menu in the PT-50LC13?

Has anyone discovered the discrete codes, if they exist, especially for input selection?

Yes, I have gotten into the service menu using the procedure I posted, but am missing one button push from getting to the good part.

Originally posted by Feddie
You need to use good component cables, not composite.

Someone please educate me... What's the difference between composite and component???

My set's due to be delivered Monday, and I would hate to hook it up and be disappointed. So, if I need to get good cables ahead of time, I want to know which ones to buy. Recommendations would be good also (preferrably something I can get at CC).

Thanks a ton!

Composite is one connector (color coded yellow), carrying the entire video signal. Component is 3 connectors (usually colored red/green/blue), carrying separate luminance + 2 color difference signals.

The actual cables carrying the signal are the same though, just for component you need 3 of them. The "component cables" are just 3 normal video cables put together and nicely color coded. Don't overspend for these; the ~$18-20 ones by RCA / GE / Recoton are fine for short runs.

Originally posted by Stephen Tu
Composite is one connector (color coded yellow), carrying the entire video signal. Component is 3 connectors (usually colored red/green/blue), carrying separate luminance + 2 color difference signals.

The actual cables carrying the signal are the same though, just for component you need 3 of them. The "component cables" are just 3 normal video cables put together and nicely color coded. Don't overspend for these; the ~$18-20 ones by RCA / GE / Recoton are fine for short runs.

Thanks for the info Stephen!!

Originally posted by vfr700
JG,

Very cool - nice clean factory look. Where did you purchase the rabbit ear or what brand are they? I haven't looked at rabbit ears much lately - is it common for them to have a pin for the base?

Rabbit ears used to be included (15+ years ago) with the set and had a pin to snap in the mounting hole on the back of the set. Looks just like the hole on my new Panny. Nice to have an antenna available when there was a big game on and the cable was out or a game was being shown in a neighboring town that was not on the local cable.

Have you noticed that no matter which input is selected, if you press the channel-up button, the TV will return to its internal tuner input?

With this information it is easy to create a macro on any good (not necessarily expensive) multi-unit remote, like RS or OFA, to make input selection a one button push process. Just program in channel up and then the tv/video buttton for the number of presses needed.

This will do nicely until we find out if the TV has discrete codes.

Here are my settings I am currently using. This cut WAYYY back on the red push, and everything looks MUCH more natural now.

NOTE: These are set up under the "DYNAMIC" setting.

I don't know if using NORMAL or CINEMA would have any different results, so if you try these, please use the DYNAMIC mode.

http://www.ayresweb.com/panasonic/picture%20adjust.jpg

Shawn

Okay, this is slightly off topic, but I'm sure someone here can help. Is composite my only option for hooking up my X Box. If so, what's the picture quality like?

Originally posted by Sixela
Okay, this is slightly off topic, but I'm sure someone here can help. Is composite my only option for hooking up my X Box. If so, what's the picture quality like?

You can get the HD pack and connect via component cables.

Originally posted by Feddie
You can get the HD pack and connect via component cables.

Thanks!

Does anyone know what circuitry is in the 50LC13 for de-interlacing?
Is it better to let the tv do it or the dvd player?
:confused:

I have my panny PT-50LC13 in my bedroom and I have 1 problem with it. The Panny does not have an on off timer. I need to figure out how to get this Awesome TV to come on in the morning and wake me up for work duringthe week? My 8 year old panny could do this why did they leave this feature out? Anyone know of a cheap remote that I could program and put away to perform this function? or maybe even a device that could connect via a USB port to be programed to do this kinda stuff. I hate waking up to my alarm then having to find the remote and turning on the TV.

DN

DN

Is there a noticeable drop in picture quality if using a receiver for switching the video sources rather than hooking to the PT-50LC13 directly? I have a Denon 3803 that up-converts everything to component. I don't have long enough s-video cable to test going to the TV rather then the Denon. So I'd like to know if there is a real noticeable drop in quality (I know that there is a theoretical drop but don't know if when using a quality receiver if it is enough to matter).

The problem I see with using some type of component switcher is you can't have different video settings for each device. DVDs would have a different setting than XBOX. Or SD cable might have a different setting than HD stuff.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but each of my inputs have different video setups. Of course it would work. Don't know about quality drop off though.

Originally posted by arkid
Does anyone know what circuitry is in the 50LC13 for de-interlacing?
Is it better to let the tv do it or the dvd player?
:confused:
All things being equal, it's better to let the DVD player do it.

If you have a quality chip in the DVD player, it's even better.

Originally posted by MLM
All things being equal, it's better to let the DVD player do it.

If you have a quality chip in the DVD player, it's even better.

That's the problem, my DVD doesn't so I was hoping the tv did.

OK, i've done a basic calibration with the Avia test patterns & color filters and the set looks much better than before, not perfect but better. I don't have a digital camera so I used Cruisers picture and added the red lines where my settings are.
Also the picture wasn't centered so I used the grids to put it straight. I'd imagine this is different for every set so I won't even bother posting those.

It worked on mine but don't go crazy if you're not happy with them.

Everything looks good. :)

ooops, forgot to attach the picture. :confused:

p.s. these were done in Cinema mode.

The dvd picture from my Sammy 931 on this set(upconverted to 720p via DVI)is absolutely stunning! I love this set!

Originally posted by arkid
ooops, forgot to attach the picture. :confused:

p.s. these were done in Cinema mode.

I checked these out on my set and everything was very, very dark and hard to see.... The image is bright on your set though?

I saw a PT-50LC13 in a high end store today. They have had it for a couple of days.

There was a purple tint in the ice during a HD hockey clip that didn't show up on the Sony LCD or four Samsung DLP sets. It's probably easy to correct but I was wondering if anyone has seen it on their "home" sets.

Originally posted by arkid
That's the problem, my DVD doesn't so I was hoping the tv did.
The TV does, and theoretically you don't need a progressive (or deinterlacing) DVD player. But you won't be getting the best picture possible. I tried it both ways with my Philips DVD963SA and the PQ was far better when I let the Philips do the deinterlacing. And I haven't even tweeked it yet.

Originally posted by MLM
The TV does, and theoretically you don't need a progressive (or deinterlacing) DVD player. But you won't be getting the best picture possible. I tried it both ways with my Philips DVD963SA and the PQ was far better when I let the Philips do the deinterlacing. And I haven't even tweeked it yet.
Thanks. I'll see if a progressive scan player will make a difference.

Originally posted by folgersnyourcup
I checked these out on my set and everything was very, very dark and hard to see.... The image is bright on your set though?
I did move the brightness up a notch from those settings but it's far from dark. After that minor adjustment it seems really good. If you've been watching your set on Dynamic mode for a while it probably will look dark but if you give it a chance i'm sure it looks more natural.
My room isn't bright at all so maybe that will affect it also.

Hi

I have a quick question, what's included in the box?
My TV should be delivered on Wed 9-10-03


Thanks for your help.

Remote, DVI cable, VGA cable and manual.

Originally posted by htwaits
I saw a PT-50LC13 in a high end store today. They have had it for a couple of days.

There was a purple tint in the ice during a HD hockey clip that didn't show up on the Sony LCD or four Samsung DLP sets. It's probably easy to correct but I was wondering if anyone has seen it on their "home" sets.

No, just find a good price and buy damn TV, and enjoy it like the rest of us who did. :)

Originally posted by Ein
No, just find a good price and buy damn TV, and enjoy it like the rest of us who did. :)
Thank you Ein for taking an interest in my TV shopping but I already have a full time (24/7) adviser. :rolleyes:

For those of us buying the PT-50LC13, you can rest at ease IMHO if you were pondering the Cineos - I saw one yesterday at GGs because I had to know I did the right thing by buying the Panny - the Cineos is ok but it also has its flaws which you can hear about in the other threads. Ignoring any price differences, I still prefer the Panasonics flaws over the other ones out there (new Hitachi, Cineos, RCA DLP, Sammy DLP) but it doesn't seem like any set (or technology) meets all the needs of everybody at this time.

Originally posted by Dee_Seal
I have my panny PT-50LC13 in my bedroom and I have 1 problem with it. The Panny does not have an on off timer. I need to figure out how to get this Awesome TV to come on in the morning and wake me up for work duringthe week? My 8 year old panny could do this why did they leave this feature out? Anyone know of a cheap remote that I could program and put away to perform this function? or maybe even a device that could connect via a USB port to be programed to do this kinda stuff. I hate waking up to my alarm then having to find the remote and turning on the TV.

DN

DN

Hmmmmmm, maybe we could arrange to have some of our members drop by each morning to turn on your tv for ya. What time do you need up?

Originally posted by manpig
Hmmmmmm, maybe we could arrange to have some of our members drop by each morning to turn on your tv for ya. What time do you need up?

5:50 am mon to friday except weekends, vacations, sickdays and holidays.
TV needs to go off by 6:50 am.

Everyone pick a time slot the before the best spots are taken :D

Originally posted by Dee_Seal
5:50 am mon to friday except weekends, vacations, sickdays and holidays.
TV needs to go off by 6:50 am.

Everyone pick a time slot the before the best spots are taken :D

Maybe you could attach a dig pic of yourself at 5:45 am. This might determine whether or not I need to make a 350 mile drive at that time o'day.

Originally posted by manpig
Maybe you could attach a dig pic of yourself at 5:45 am. This might determine whether or not I need to make a 350 mile drive at that time o'day.

The fact that u r considering this in itself is disturbing. all I need is fr you to drive up next to my apartment and hit the power biutton and then drive of

DN

My panny was delivered today. I have to say, so far I'm impressed. The HD cable box also arrived today and it does make a substantial difference in the PQ on even regular cable. The regular pure analog channels look good with only minor pixelation at my viewing distance (about 8 ft.) Showtime looks awesome and the Showtime HD makes me wish it had better movies. When I bought this I really thought that I was going to give up something substantial on PQ with regular TV, I just haven't found that to be the case. Now if I could just find a stand that I liked that would bring it down to eye level.

Originally posted by Dee_Seal
The fact that u r considering this in itself is disturbing. all I need is fr you to drive up next to my apartment and hit the power biutton and then drive of

DN

Dee, don't be too disturbed. I am after all MANPIG. I was just teasing you. Relax.

Originally posted by manpig
Dee, don't be too disturbed. I am after all MANPIG. I was just teasing you. Relax.

what about them radiohack remotes with on of timers anyone use those? This morning again I had to wake up and put on the TV Argggggggggggg.

Anybody using HD Directv via the dvi connection to this tv? I have the panny with a dirctivo (SD). I would LOVE a HD directivo, but they aren't available yet. I am considering getting HD directv and wondered what some of your experiences are with the Panny and which receivers you might recommend.

Originally posted by Dee_Seal
what about them radiohack remotes with on of timers anyone use those? This morning again I had to wake up and put on the TV Argggggggggggg.

Jesus Christ!!!!
Is that the biggest thing you have to worry about each day??? I wish that was at the top of my list of problems.
You need to be looking on the other AVS forum... Audio/Video Servants.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Headers
Now if I could just find a stand that I liked that would bring it down to eye level.

I'm still waiting for my tv to come but my stand is awesome and cheap. I would put the link on but it wont let me since I dont have enough posts. Go to ikea's website and search "tv unit docent". It will be the first item to come up.

Question- I currently use my xbox as my dvd player and I have read that if the tv has a good video processor, it doesnt matter if it's progressive scan as long as it has component outs. If this is true, Ill wait until the dvi dvd players dont have so many bugs to get a new one.

You can read here about DVD players:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=0&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0

That site doesnt answer my question... Has anyone watched movies on xbox with the PT-50LC13? How's it look?

My set was delivered on Monday and I'm very pleased with the picture quality!!! However, I'm having a horrible time trying to incorporate my Tivo into my HD setup. How I wish I could get Direct TV. Problem is my condo association has some kind of agreement with Dish Network making them the exclusive satellite provider. Not to mention the fact that my cable's free every month. All I pay for is premium channels. Hard deal to beat, but I'm banging my head against the wall trying to use my Tivo. Maybe I should just give up on HD and deal with the fact that I'm can only have SD if I want to watch recorded shows - but it's soooooo purty. I think I'm going to have to get a good S-video cable and just go back to my Time Warner DVR - argh!

Unless any of you have any bright ideas....

Does anyone know when those HD Tivo's are due out and if they will have more than one tuner????

ReplayTV (yes, I've considered it) does have progressive output, but still only one tuner. Whoa is me...

Originally posted by Sixela
Does anyone know when those HD Tivo's are due out and if they will have more than one tuner????They are reportedly due out March '04 and will have 4 tuners: 2 ATSC and 2 DirecTV. There's a thread about it here:

HD DirecTiVo info from CEDIA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298628)

Owning the pt-40lc12, it's nice to see some traffic about these panny lcd's since there's got to be some commonality.

I looked far and wide for a stand and found what I needed in a Tech Craft MT400. I got it on Ebay for about $200 and it looks great and matches the TV perfect.

Also, I had gotten into the service mode and tried tweaking to get rid of the purple tinge in the whites and blacks. I was able to finally adjust it out using a black and white image and adjusting the color out of the grey's. Worked perfect.

These tv's need some initial tweaking but the reward is a really nice picture for the price. DVD's and some of Dishnets channels look absolutely gorgeous. SOme of the other channels look like crap, but it's not the tv.

I purchased the 50LC13 a few days ago and have been pretty happy with it.

Have any of you tried to hook a computer up to it yet? I have, and have gotten interesting results:

1) 1024x768 at 60hz does fine, both through the rgb (db15) ports and the dvi port.

2) 1260x720 at 60hz works through both the rgb port and the dvi port, even though the owner's manual says the rgb port only supports 1024x768 max. The problem I am having is that the computer image does not seem to fit the tv screen (taskbar and sides of computer image are cut off - maybe 20 pixels). At first I thought this was an overscan issue, but I get the same "cutoff" even when I do a split screen with regular video so that the smaller computer image is not even close to the edges of the tv. Certainly doesn't seem like optical overscan at least. I have tried this both with a Geforce4 Ti4200 video card (with dvi) and a Geforce2 MX video card (regular rgb out). Both of these had selectable resolutions of 1260x720 under windows XP.

It is interesting to note that when you press the information button with the 1260x720 graphics running into EITHER the rgb or dvi input you get "720P". If you have the graphics running at 1024x768 into the rgb port you get "XGA xx hertz" (where xx can be 60, 70 or 75). I have only been able to get 60hz working at the 1260x720.

Fonts seem easier to read at 1024x768 than 1260x720 for some reason, but if you change the font size this is not much of an issue.

I would like to run 1260x720 if I could only figure out how to get the whole image on the tv screen.

Have any of you had better luck?

flyboy909:

How did you get into the SM of the 40LC12?

Originally posted by ND:YVO4
I purchased the 50LC13 a few days ago and have been pretty happy with it.

Have any of you tried to hook a computer up to it yet? I have, and have gotten interesting results:

1) 1024x768 at 60hz does fine, both through the rgb (db15) ports and the dvi port.

2) 1260x720 at 60hz works through both the rgb port and the dvi port, even though the owner's manual says the rgb port only supports 1024x768 max. The problem I am having is that the computer image does not seem to fit the tv screen (taskbar and sides of computer image are cut off - maybe 20 pixels). At first I thought this was an overscan issue, but I get the same "cutoff" even when I do a split screen with regular video so that the smaller computer image is not even close to the edges of the tv. Certainly doesn't seem like optical overscan at least. I have tried this both with a Geforce4 Ti4200 video card (with dvi) and a Geforce2 MX video card (regular rgb out). Both of these had selectable resolutions of 1260x720 under windows XP.

It is interesting to note that when you press the information button with the 1260x720 graphics running into EITHER the rgb or dvi input you get "720P". If you have the graphics running at 1024x768 into the rgb port you get "XGA xx hertz" (where xx can be 60, 70 or 75). I have only been able to get 60hz working at the 1260x720.

Fonts seem easier to read at 1024x768 than 1260x720 for some reason, but if you change the font size this is not much of an issue.

I would like to run 1260x720 if I could only figure out how to get the whole image on the tv screen.

Have any of you had better luck?


I have the same problem with mine to but using the VGA connection only.
Did you notice any difference between the rgb and DVI connection?

Newmie

nope, no difference using either the dvi or rgb connection, though the dvi connection will not accept all of the resolution types that the rgb will.
The tv identifies both as 720P when 1260x720 is run into either one.

Try pressing split screen while you are running 1260x720 into your vga port and post your results. I am seeing the same amount of cutoff screen even when it has been reduced to the point where optical overscan should not be an issue.

I am wondering now if there really could be a way to get 1260x720 without any cutoff....

Is it 1260x720 or 1280x720?

Ordered the service manual for the PT-50LC13 today. It was pretty cheap, $13.69 including tax and shipping. It is back ordered for 4-6 weeks so unless somebody gets one earlier...

Originally posted by ND:YVO4
Try pressing split screen while you are running 1260x720 into your vga port and post your results. I am seeing the same amount of cutoff screen even when it has been reduced to the point where optical overscan should not be an issue.

I am wondering now if there really could be a way to get 1260x720 without any cutoff....

I didn't do split screen, but I did try aspect button (full, Normal...) and still no luck. I know on my 19 inch monitor if that happens I would just hit the re-image button and it would correct it. But I don't think theres such an option with the PT-50...

I did the XP plus fish tank screen saver and my cat was all over it :) .

Its ok with me as I can still get to my Programs menu and games, movies still look normal. Its more or less an issue with my desk top from what I can tell. I hope to have it hooked up to the internet by this weekend.

Newmie

sorry, 1280x720 (not sure where I got the 1260 from)

Update on the vertical resolution. I created a simple bitmap (in paint, lol) that has 720 lines (360 black and 360 white) with labels at every 100 lines. Putting this bitmap at full screen, I can see line 19 and 696. If I look up under the plastic bezel I can see at least two more lines on the top and bottom, so the plastic bezel on the tv is covering at least some of the pixels. Based on this, I belive I have a viewable vertical resolution of 678 pixels. On the plus side, Every line is visible, and after staring at the screen counting all 678 lines, I did not see one single bad pixel :-)

I have work to do, so am not going to bother measuring the horizontal resolution :-)

Lol, had to do 5 posts before I could put up a url with a link to the bitmap I made to test your vertical resolution. Now that I am a "heavy poster", here it is:

www.skyko.com/panasonic/test720.bmp

give me about 5 min to upload it to my server :-)

ND:YVO4, thanks for running that test. Did you try to do the PIP test with the bitmap? I guess it might be hard to see with the scaling, so you could modify your bitmap to contain a solid color like blue from lines 19 to 696.

Oh, and btw, to make the bitmap full screen, at least in windows picture viewer, put it in a file folder by itself and select "slideshow". This will put just the bitmap on the tv screen, at full size.

just did the bitmap in PiP split screen mode, and although it is hard to tell exactly, it looks like it is cutting off about the same number of pixels top and bottom if you count the 2 pixels that were hidden by the plastic bezel.

So....I can make out all 678 pixels...unless the pixel size changes, I don't see how there can be any more.

This really does not explain the PiP being also cut off unless panasonic knows their vertical resolution is really 678, and thus scales off that.

Anyone feel a bit cheated? :-)

I still love the tv though.


My eyes hurt.


Ok, time to upload that bitmap.

Originally posted by ND:YVO4
This really does not explain the PiP being also cut off unless panasonic knows their vertical resolution is really 678, and thus scales off that.They might be doing that. I've seen some weird things on DVDs and TV when there is zero overscan.

How do I view a Smart Media card in this set. I put several jpg pictures on a SM card and tried to put it in the right card reader slot. The instructions list SM cards under the PC card column but the SM card will not fit in the slot. Is there a PC card holder that will accept Smart Media and other types of cards that you then put in the card reader slot?

Originally posted by WaltW
How do I view a Smart Media card in this set. I put several jpg pictures on a SM card and tried to put it in the right card reader slot. The instructions list SM cards under the PC card column but the SM card will not fit in the slot. Is there a PC card holder that will accept Smart Media and other types of cards that you then put in the card reader slot?

You'll need to buy a Smart Media PC Card adapter in order to use Smart Media with this tv.

I ran the Avia disk, and found the red was pretty hot. Reducing color helps somewhat, but the red is still hotter than green and blue. The normal user menus don't allow adjustment of the colors individually. Does anyone know whether/how this can be done?

Originally posted by WaltW
How do I view a Smart Media card in this set. I put several jpg pictures on a SM card and tried to put it in the right card reader slot. The instructions list SM cards under the PC card column but the SM card will not fit in the slot. Is there a PC card holder that will accept Smart Media and other types of cards that you then put in the card reader slot?

It plays SD card memory directly, or you can put your SM card in a PCMCIA adapter and put it in the other slot.

Shawn

When using the DVI connection for my HD931, it allows you to adjust the Red, Blue, Green colors individually. What's weird is does not have the sharpness adjustment when using the DVI connection.

Ok I now know how to correct the screen shift problem with 1280 x 720 res. So simple too ...

Select TV on the remote while your viewing your desktop, select Position and move your horizontal setting to the right.

And their you have it

newmie

Originally posted by jkv4
... What's weird is does not have the sharpness adjustment when using the DVI connection.

DVI is probably bypassing the circuitry that would add sharpness. This is probably a good thing.

Newmie, does this solve the overscan problem?

mlandau, here's the sequence to get into the service menu of a 40lc12:

There are two different service menus. The first one is called
"factory adjust mode". You enter it from a powered on state by holding down the VOLUME DOWN button on the set itself and the RECALL key on the remote for five seconds. Apparently to get out of this you turn the set off.

To get to the actual service menu, when in the above mode, you hold down
the VOLUME DOWN button on the set itself and the SWAP key on the remote for five seconds. To get out of this mode back to the previous
state you hit RECALL on the remote.

At this point a screen like the user adjust menu appears which has various
submenus. One is called Video Adjust or something similar. That is where I made my tweaks to get rid of red and purple push.

has anyone used this remote, I am seriously considering this to solve the lack of on/off timer issue I am having with this magnificent TV

http://www.pacificneotek.com/

Can anybody share their picture setup using DVI escpecially if you have that AVIA. I dont know how to adjust the Red, Green, Blue and brightness correctly to maximize PQ.

Thanks

Regarding cropping of 1280x720 resolution.. Part of the screen is hidden behind the plastic moulding. Here is a paste from a few of my replies on the ' In home observations ' thread:

"You are right ND:YVO4 ... I just checked and the taskbar in windows is indeed visible behind the plastic moulding/bezel on the front of the set. Its really disappointing that they didn't mount the screen better. Now it makes me wonder if I can ever snap the moulding off without damaging the set so I can see the entire screen."

(And then I posted: )

Removable front facing?

It appears as if there are several screws in the back of the set around the frame. Perhaps the entire grey front face is removable? If this were true I could see the entire screen (1280x720) and perhaps have a replacement front manufactured out of wood or some other material to screw back into place. This way I wouldn't have to damage any part of the unit, and the replacement front could look pretty nice if done properly. I don't use the side speakers anyway.

It would be even nicer if panasonic offered a suitable replacement front in the future sometime. Both pc users and those using full-screen images in the card slot would notice the most, but horizontal clipping is occuring on everyone's dvd's too. Anything full screen is clipped. I'd say 1/2" trim around the whole viewable screen is covered by plastic.

Originally posted by elvn
Regarding cropping of 1280x720 resolution.. Part of the screen is hidden behind the plastic moulding. Here is a paste from a few of my replies on the ' In home observations ' thread:

"You are right ND:YVO4 ... I just checked and the taskbar in windows is indeed visible behind the plastic moulding/bezel on the front of the set. Its really disappointing that they didn't mount the screen better. Now it makes me wonder if I can ever snap the moulding off without damaging the set so I can see the entire screen."

(And then I posted: )

Removable front facing?

It appears as if there are several screws in the back of the set around the frame. Perhaps the entire grey front face is removable? If this were true I could see the entire screen (1280x720) and perhaps have a replacement front manufactured out of wood or some other material to screw back into place. This way I wouldn't have to damage any part of the unit, and the replacement front could look pretty nice if done properly. I don't use the side speakers anyway.

It would be even nicer if panasonic offered a suitable replacement front in the future sometime. Both pc users and those using full-screen images in the card slot would notice the most, but horizontal clipping is occuring on everyone's dvd's too. Anything full screen is clipped. I'd say 1/2" trim around the whole viewable screen is covered by plastic.

Ok I now know how to correct the screen shift problem with 1280 x 720 res. So simple too ...

Select TV on the remote while your viewing your desktop, select Position and move your horizontal setting to the right.

And their you have it

newmie

Oh I would have mentioned the screen position adjustment had I realized that screen shift was your only issue. The issue I have is that the screen is cropped due to the fact that there is around 1/2" border of otherwise viewable screen real-estate that is covered by the plastic border/bezel/moulding .. whatever you want to call it. Moving the image position one way or the other just causes a larger portion of the screen to be 'brushed under the carpet' on the other side.

If you get close to the screen and peer over the edge.. looking down beneath the bezel you will see the windows taskbar displayed in full beneath the plastic. The limits of full screen dvd's are hidden behind the plastic too - so even if you aren't connecting a pc to the tv, you are being cropped and would be able to take an aslant peek under the plastic a bit and see the viewable screen you are missing all around the border.

So the point is that the screen is there and the limits (of the image or desktop or movie frame) are being rendered, it is just that this portion of the screen is covered by plastic.

As I have said, I may attempt removal of the plastic front after I move. There seems to be a number of screws all around the border of the back of the tv that hold it in place. I would have a replacement front face manufactured out of wood or some other material that I could screw back into place using the same screws.

Well, it is certainly an interesting way to deal with overscan (hiding it behind a piece of plastic). I am wondering if that is the only reason panasonic did this, or if perhaps there are horrible artifacts present at the edges of the screen? Maybe the light gets diffracted around the edges of the lcds and this is what they are covering up with the plastic bezel.


If anyone happens to need to take their tv apart and wouldn't mind taking a pic of a full screen image with the cover off, it would be interesting.

The point is that its indeed not overscan, which crops part of the image 'off-screen' where it isn't rendered at all. On this set the extents of the image are actually rendered on screen, but that part of the screen is behind a plastic bezel.

I may take the front of the set off eventually but not until after I move and have a more permanent placement of the set. I'd have to have a replacement front manufactured - I'm not going to leave it wide open.
I wonder how well it is supported within. Hopefully the front plastic is more cosmetic than actual support structure.

I've had the 50LC13 a week , and I have a problem when using the DVI input. I have a Zenith HD520 STB connected via DVI, and can't get it to display a resolution greater than 480p. My STB has a number of resolutions from which to choose. I can't get a picture using 1080i, 720p, or 480i on any SD or HD channel. I do get a picture when the STB is set to 480p, but it has a lot of video noise at the top and bottom of the picture.
Using the STB's Native setting, it is the same: no1080, no720, no 480i, only 480p with the same problem as above. Same story on the Hybrid settings.
The EZ-DVI, in which the STB adjusts its output according to the ability of the display, I only get a picture at 480p as above on SD, I get no picture on HD channels. BTW, I have toggled the rear panel switch on the 520 to the DVI setting, so that's not the problem.
BTW, the component inputs work perfectly. I've also swapped STBs and DVI cables without success.
Am I doing something wrong? Any suggestions? Anyone using a Zenith 520 with the 50LC13 via DVI successfully?
Thanks in advance for your help.

Jeff

There is a "sd/hd" button on you 520's remote. It's below the volume button. Switch between SD and HD on it to see if it will do anything.


I have the same set up as you and have no problem.

Ein,

Switching btw SD and HD on the 520's remote does not solve the problem. Thanks for the input. BTW, how are you connecting the 520 to the 50LC13?

Jeff

DVI, have not tried component other then with a DVD player.

I get picture from all formats. If it's not your 520, then it's the TV.

Don't know if this helps, but I'm using a Samsung T-351 STB with DVI and it works perfectly.

All the TVs I own have overscan. Just like car manufacturers tend to make cars understeer for safety, TV manufacturers tends to make TV overscan a little bit for the same reason. It's better to crop the image on the edge than to show some horrible black bars on screen because not all the video source will show the same exact picture size.

I see dead pixels

from the sign "I see dead people"

found that funny

Originally posted by vfr700
Ordered the service manual for the PT-50LC13 today. It was pretty cheap, $13.69 including tax and shipping. It is back ordered for 4-6 weeks so unless somebody gets one earlier...

Where did you order from? I looked on the Panny USA web site and it was not listed.

Originally posted by Foxbat121
All the TVs I own have overscan. Just like car manufacturers tend to make cars understeer for safety, TV manufacturers tends to make TV overscan a little bit for the same reason. It's better to crop the image on the edge than to show some horrible black bars on screen because not all the video source will show the same exact picture size.

Well, if that's the case, then I won't be getting a HTPC. I don't see why anyone would want to do so if the TV was DESIGNED this way. Maybe I'll reconsider if programs such as Powertools can provide a remedy.

Using the Digital Video Essentials DVD, the overscan on my set is just about at 2 per cent--perhaps a smidgen more. That's not too bad.

I solved the DVI input problem. The problem is with the STB, not the 50LC13. THe 720p picture through DVI looks fantastic. Now I need to exchange the STB for a new one.
Thanks to all who helped.

Jeff

My 50lc13 just got delivered today and I notice something wierd with the screen. When the tv is off or during dark scenes, I notice what appears to be evenly space vertical creases on the screen. It's like when you slightly fold a piece of paper and then unfold it. This is especially noticeable when I was watching the Caves of Morira scene in LOTR with a very small amount of window light reflecting off the screen.

Are these creases along the top and/or bottom or actually through the middle of the screen? Doesn't sound right to me...

I have some very slight 'ripples' along the top and bottom edge of my TV. I have to get right up to the set and look down the edge. If the room lighting is just at the right angle, and I'm reclining at just the right angle, and my recliner is angled just certain way toward the TV, and my eyes are appropriately focused, then I can see it from my chair

:D

I never notice this when a picture is displayed though, only when the TV is turned off.

Sounds like you have you been gazing admiringly at your new toy while it's been at rest :D

ron

Originally posted by MLM
Using the Digital Video Essentials DVD, the overscan on my set is just about at 2 per cent--perhaps a smidgen more. That's not too bad.

Yes, I agree that it is very acceptable for normal TV viewing, but when I connect a PC to it in Windows XP, the far left icons are not visible due to cropping of the screen. This is fine for watching DVDs and such, but totally unacceptable for displaying PC images.

Anything come about your thought of removing the screen border? I would really like to see full 720p on PCs.

Mine will be in house this Friday, and more thoughts on this?



I don't plan on attempting the removal of the set's front with border until I am all set up in my new home so I won't try it until thanksgiving or later. Once I remove it I'll get a better idea of whether a replacement screen is feasible. I'll keep everyone posted in the threads. :)

My feeling is that a replacement screen made out of wood with a hole cut out to the exact *full* screen dimensions would work. I'd have to make it solid (possibily reinforced) and pre-drilled where the same screws could hold it in. Perhaps painted and sealed with non-toxic ' chemically neutral ' latex paint and silicone sealant. I'd just have to be careful of heat issues near the border .. so just now I had another idea to maybe use an attached plastic frame tacked on the limits instead of the main wooden board meeting the screen. That is, making the screen-cutout in the wood oversized, and attaching some plastic boder frame to 'meet' the edge of the screen. For the set's side speakers, I could drill small holes in the sides of the replacement front or build my own speaker covers.

I'll come up with a good replacement if given the time to think about it.. as long as the original plastic front is more cosmetic than support structure it shouldn't be much problem.

Originally posted by Master-G
Yes, I agree that it is very acceptable for normal TV viewing, but when I connect a PC to it in Windows XP, the far left icons are not visible due to cropping of the screen. This is fine for watching DVDs and such, but totally unacceptable for displaying PC images.

When viewing your desktop, select TV on your remote and then select the menu button and then Position and recenter your desktop that way. It worked for and and it remembers that setting so you don't have to do it each time.

Newmie

there is around 1/2" border of otherwise viewable screen real-estate that is covered by the plastic border/bezel/moulding .. whatever you want to call it. Moving the image position one way or the other just causes a larger portion of the screen to be 'brushed under the carpet' on the other side.

I too am very frustrated by the "under the bezel" portions of the screen. As i run off of a PC mostly i was wondering if any of you where familiar with the Powerstrip software? I have it but am not knowledgeable enough yet to determine the appropriate setting. it is my understanding that a custom resolution can be made something to the effect of 1248x698 so that the hidden pixels are not used by the graphics card. Anyone else looking at this option?

Walt,

I ordered the service manual from the national parts center by calling the 800 number on the web. The service manual is not listed online but they do sell it via phone.

By the way, I am typing this using a remote keyboard in an 800x600 pixel window adjacent to my wife's small screen showing "Friends". I already got the "why is your screen bigger than mine?" Somehow I have my doubts about being able to convince her that that is the way the tv works and that I don't have a choice. She just saw what I was typing and flipped me off (for fun).
Time to give her the screen back!

Originally posted by vfr700
She just saw what I was typing and flipped me off (for fun).
Time to give her the screen back!

3 Cheers for VFR's wife who just flipped him off. Tell her to flip off Jeremy Shockey while she is at it....he finally scored.

mahodson, I had initially made an attempt at powerstrip before considering removing the front face of the set. After seeing your suggestion I decided to give it another try with the help of this

Powerstrip Guide for the powerstrip impaired (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/powerstrip.html)

I tried first at your suggested 1248x698 resolution. It worked but the trim still covered half of my taskbar's worth around the entire screen border, including icons on the sides, full screen images, etc. So I tried a few other custom resolutions, working down from the predefined 1280x720 lcd setting that comes with powerstrip. I settled on 1240x694 for now, which still cuts off alittle more than two characters worth of lettering on my icons ( e.g. "_ Documents " instead of "My_Documents" at the upper left of my screen). However I can see 80% of the windows taskbar at this resolution which makes it functional.

I'm going to try to go down one more size if possible for the closest fit I can get. It still bother's me to run full screen image slideshows with cropped heads and legs, etc that occurs even at this resolution. I'll let you know if I get a better fit.

::cursing the bezel cover::
I still have not eliminated the option of removing and replacing the cover someday.. the more screen the better.

I tried a few more custom resolutions.. they were hit and miss but I got a few to work. The one that seems to display the most of the image without being smaller than the screen is 1208x692 resolution. The horizontal fits and the vertical is only about a character shy both on top and on the bottom too.
1240x694 resolution also works, but still crops two and a half to three character's worth (measuring by default icon labels on windows desktop) all around the border of the screen.
1208x692 as compared to 1280x720 seems like I am losing a good amount of viewable screen space. I am still not writing off replacing the front cover sometime.
At least now I can see nearly a full desktop, and I can see the full horizontal limits (and nearly vertical) of dvd's and full-screen slideshows run off my pc.

Thanks again for inspiring me to try powerstip again mahodson. :D

are you not concern with the lamp hour only indicating 2710

its not incrementing

does your service manual have somthing about that?

Originally posted by camsol2002
are you not concern with the lamp hour only indicating 2710

its not incrementing

does your service manual have somthing about that?

How do we know if that has anything to do with lamp hour use?

I need some help on getting 720p through DVI using my computer. Does anyone knows how to do this? Have you done this with your panny?

If so, please help me.


P.S: I'm using a NVIDIA Geforce4 TI 4400 and I have Power Strip 3.43.

Removing the bezel:
Tonight I had the bezel partly off as I want to paint the 1.25 inch wide area black. The front will come off but I wasn't quite ready to attempt it - the wife was watching tv during the process. For those that want to pursue this, it doesn't look like a bad job. First, take out the 3 screws holding each module (left and right, one at a time). The two way speaker drivers are mounted in these. The modules pull out directly backward but remain attached with approx. 4 inches of wire. While holding the speaker module, remove the two screws which are normally hidden by the module which go through the case into the bezel. Push the speaker back in and repeat on the other side. I then took out all the screws on the back near the edges which go into the bezel. I then tipped out the front screen with the bezel to look in side. There are apparently still 4 screws at the bottom which must be long enough to extend through the set from the back and are marked with arrows. That is where I stopped. The screen itself has a border strip around its edges which screw into the back of the bezel. Those screws would have to be removed to separate the screen from the bezel - I may paint the bezel in place rather than take all those screws out.
A few other notes:
It would appear that the insides can be dusted if the time comes with a camel hair optical brush as I did see a couple specks of dust twinkle on the lens - I wouldn't really know where to look on the screen to see if the dust's shadow is visible.
Also, I believe there is some hope in improving the blacks if you want to go through the effort. The inside of the tv could be painted an optically flat black which would tend to absorb light scattered off the rear surface of the screen. Currently, the insides appear to have no optical treatment and have the similar semi-gloss finish if the black plastics case.

This weekend I may remove the front or paint it in place.

All the pictures I see of the set are either on the stand or just show the screen. I have read complaints in this thread the "bottom part" is ugly but I can't seem to get a pic of it. Could someone tell me how far it is from the bottom of the set to the bottom of the screen? I have read posts saying a speaker won't rest on top so I'm wondering if I can put my center channel in front without covering the screen if I get one.

Originally posted by vfr700
This weekend I may remove the front or paint it in place.

Wow! Please, if you can document with tons of pictures! Good luck and thanks!

:)

Originally posted by elvn



Elvn

Not be beat a dead horse but did you try "H Size" ? The H size option shrinks the Horizontal size and then you can use H position to make final left right adjustments. I just cant understand how we have the same TV and same issue with 1280X780 (or whatever it is) and the H size/H position centered my desktop 100% and it doesn't seem to anything for you.

Just trying to help

Newmie

If I remembered correctly, when input in DVI mode, you can only change positions not sizes. And you can not change any picture settings at all with DVI. That is a hint that the digital signal from DVI is passed directly into the display without processing.

Originally posted by Foxbat121
If I remembered correctly, when input in DVI mode, you can only change positions not sizes. And you can not change any picture settings at all with DVI. That is a hint that the digital signal from DVI is passed directly into the display without processing.

That might explain it as I'm using a VGA connection.

Newmie

Newmie, yes thats it - I'm using DVI connection to connect my pc to the tv.. which makes dvds look quite nice. Therefore I can only change the position with onscreen controls.. which just makes me lose more screen on one side than another. Using powerstrip at 1208x692 is much better now. It allows me to see the entire desktop horizontally and only a character shy on top and bottom.

vfr700 YES~! Please Do DOCUMENT your removal and take pics if you can. :D I'm very interested.

When you mentioned the border strip around the edges of the screen, do you mean the strip is outside of the 'rendered but hidden' screen limits that are behind the bezel? How did the normally covered but rendered portion of the screen look to you when you could finally see it? :)

I'm curious concerning removal of the front cover in order to replace it - do you think the screen would stay in place without the front cover? Is it more cosmetic? I mean, did the screen seem to be unstable or that it might fall forward had you removed all the screws? If so - could you back the bottom screws and maybe other screws out just enough to remove the front cover but still keep the screen attached?

If necessary, perhaps you could 'toe' the screws in with tiny woodblocks or a few woodstrips to hold the screws in while working on the inside or measuring the set. Something like that might be necessary if the backed-out screws had no tension once the front is removed. That is, if the screws were just sliding freely in their screw-holes without the front to hold them in. Any thoughts along these lines would be appreciated.

It would make it alot easier to do some measuring and later replace the front cover if I didn't have to worry too much about the screen plopping out and falling onto the floor. ;)

Before anyone bravely attempts to modify the bezel to remedy viewing resolutions not supported by the TV, check out the following IPB.

Thanks Ikubotok. I'm not sure whether that picture is outlining all the screws necessary to remove the screen and its supporting edges rather than the screws only necessary to remove the front bezel though.

As vfr700 mentioned, he removed 3 screws off each speaker module to get at 2 more behind each module connected to the bezel. He then removed the large screws around the frame on the back and indicated that there were 4 screws that were apparently long enough to span the entire set back to front near the bottom, that were screwed through the dark support frame around the screen itself.. marked with arrows.

Hopefully he will provide more details as he goes.. especially regarding if the screen would be in danger of falling forward.

Please note that item #51 in the illustration is a single item. From the outside the "bezel" looks to be removable but I assure you it is an integral item of the whole piece.

If the "bezel" is manually cut out too far, the screw holes for attaching the screen hardware will be compromised.

I would think ordering a replacement piece to hack up would be safer than messing up your original. The p/n is LSGY0165.

Cool thanks :) I had been messing with the idea of manufacturing my own replacement cover and pre-drilling the hole locations in reinforced areas. The replacement I was thinking of would have been made out of wood. However ordering a replacement front cover using the part number you referenced, and cutting the 1/2" bezel trim away with a dremel tool/saw before mounting it might be a much better idea. Thanks again for posting all the info. :)

To help clarify the posted drawing (thats cool - where did it come from? If the service manual, anything about entering the service menu?):

The screen sandwich evident in the drawing will come off with the bezel. That assembly seem quite rigid (Note, I didn't remove the 4 remaining screws to separate the assembly from the tv structure, but removing all the other screws on the back around the edge allowed the bezel/screen assembly to tip far enough out to look inside).

As you can see in the picture, there is a boat load of scews holding the screen sandwich to the bezel. There is no danger of that baby falling out! Once I saw that, the idea of having to remove all those screws plus the screws I had already removed plus the 4 I hadn't, kind of changed my mind about disassembly to paint the bezel. It will be far easier to paint the bezel in place as that is my goal - I haven't crossed the overscan issue yet. (I have a switch that I use to go between the tv and the monitor in my office where the PC is, so I am using 800x600 and 1024x768 - I have no overscan issue but I do have bars on the side due to the resolution being selected.)

Does anyone know if power strip lets you change resolutions on the fly with no reboot? It would be cool to use 1024x768 for my office, through my A/B switch and then be able to select 800x600 if I'm in split screen mode (wife watching TV) or the full 1280x697(whatever) if I get the whole screen.

Anyway, painting is taking place tomorrow without disassembly

Originally posted by Foxbat121
If I remembered correctly, when input in DVI mode, you can only change positions not sizes. And you can not change any picture settings at all with DVI. That is a hint that the digital signal from DVI is passed directly into the display without processing.

When using component, you can't change the size either.

vfr700,
make sure you take pictures as you're doing the mod. I wanna see it.
Thanks!

vfr700 When initially setting the custom resolutions using powerstrip, you need to reboot so powerstrip can test them and add them to the windows registry. Once you find some successful custom resolutions and have rebooted and tested them, you can use the normal windows resolution slider (in Display Settings) to swap between resolutions and hit the apply button just as you ordinarily would. The custom resolutions will appear in the appropriate place on your resolution slider, and you should never have to reboot again to change to those now 'integrated' resolutions.

As I said on page8, the one that seems to display the most of the image without being smaller than the screen is 1208x692 resolution. I still lose a character on top and on the bottom of the screen but its hardly noticeable, and the horizontal fits completely.

I've had my Panny for a few weeks now and I am getting some sideways scrambling of the picture when I change channels.. Going through a Comcast cable box, and the picture eventually settles down and looks fine, but it starting to get annoying.. Anyone had this? Hoping it could be an adjustment before I call CCity.

Thx,
Brian

Painting of the bezel completed - it looks great! When I dig up the kid's digiatal camera, I'll post some pictures.

Thanks for the tips on Power strip. I'll give it a try soon.

Originally posted by btwick
I've had my Panny for a few weeks now and I am getting some sideways scrambling of the picture when I change channels.. Going through a Comcast cable box, and the picture eventually settles down and looks fine, but it starting to get annoying.. Anyone had this? Hoping it could be an adjustment before I call CCity.

Thx,
Brian

I used to get this a lot on my old TVs. It's usually your cable signal not the TV. Some TV may settle down faster than others. You should call your cable company instead of CC.

ey guys,

Considering my tv is coming in later today, I had a couple questions.

1) How should I connect my DVD Player/Receiver? It is an Onkyo Receiver which is also a DVD player. So should I just connect it to TV via Component Cables and audio through Audio Interconnects?

2) I will also be connecting my computer to the TV via VGA. Is quality good enough to read text and type etc? Is it a strain on your eyes? My computer's resolution is 1024x768 - will I be ok with viewing area?

Any furthur tips are greatly appreciated. Thank you

-Kosta

Originally posted by KostaVan
ey guys,

Considering my tv is coming in later today, I had a couple questions.

1) How should I connect my DVD Player/Receiver? It is an Onkyo Receiver which is also a DVD player. So should I just connect it to TV via Component Cables and audio through Audio Interconnects?
-Kosta
Yes, connect it with the component cables. If you can turn the progressive feature off and let the TV do it, try it that way as well as with progressive on. Depending on the quality of the chip in the Onkyo, you may get a better picture one way or another.

As for the audio, I send it to my audio preamp and amp and speakers. You'll get better sound than if you send it to the TV. By far. Your choice.

Mel

I can answer #2, since I just hooked up my laptop to it last night using 1024x768. The quality is great, and it's perfectly readable for me. I don't think it's doing a 1-to-1 pixel mapping, however, so if it's possible to configure your computer to output something closer to the native resolution you might get even better quality. There are some threads talking about it, though I don't have links right now.

Originally posted by MLM If you can turn the progressive feature off and let the TV do it, try it that way as well as with progressive on.
I've got a stupid question that's going to probably make me sound like an idiot: But aren't DVDs 720x480? And if your DVD player sends out a 480i signal, then aren't you only getting half the information of a 480p stream?

Or is it that 480i is coming out at 60fps and the DVD was recorded at <30fps, so that the same amount of actual information is coming out whether or not it's set to progressive? If so, then what's the big deal about progressive scan DVD players if most HDTVs can upconvert themselves? The only difference would be the quality of the conversion, and who's to say that your progressive scan DVD player is better than your TV?

(Okay, so that was like five questions, but they're all related! :D The reason I ask, by the way, is because I have a relatively nice DVD player with component output but not progressive, and I'm trying to figure out if I should replace it with a cheapo modern prog-scan DVD player and expect better quality.)

Are there any images anywhere of the back panel of this unit? I'm about two weeks away from the actual delivery and didn't get a chance to check out that part of the set on the showroom floor.

Originally posted by Chris Beveridge
Are there any images anywhere of the back panel of this unit? I'm about two weeks away from the actual delivery and didn't get a chance to check out that part of the set on the showroom floor.

If I remember, I'll take a picture of mine when I get home and post it here, as others may be interested. I have to go home early to wait for the HD cable installation, so my TV will be pulled out from the wall anyway.

Hey Panny Boys and Girls,

Remember me? Yes it is Manpig the Panny traitor. Question for you current owners. When you display in either stretch mode do you notice a bluriness in the background and if so how profound is it? There is some discussion in the Hitachi LCD thread about this and I don't remember this as being much of a problem with my Panny but I have slept since ownership. I am mainly speaking of OTA, cable, and satellite transmissions.

Originally posted by cobalt
If so, then what's the big deal about progressive scan DVD players if most HDTVs can upconvert themselves? The only difference would be the quality of the conversion, and who's to say that your progressive scan DVD player is better than your TV?
Within one of the Panny threads (could have been this one), there was reference to an article that explained why, all things being equal, it is better to have the line doubler be in the DVD player, rather than in the TV. Also many DVD players have line doublers with more sophistication than the one in the Panny.

But the test is in the PQ. I have tried it both ways with my Philips 963SA and it is clearly better when done at my DVD player. As usual, YMMV.

Originally posted by manpig
Remember me? Yes it is Manpig the Panny traitor.Yeah, but you'll see which side of the force is stronger and rejoin us.

Question for you current owners. When you display in either stretch mode do you notice a bluriness in the background and if so how profound is it?

Do you mean static images or when moving? (And I assume you mean relative to a 4:3 image of the same picture, right?)

My Computer can display the native 1280x720. It shows up blurry on my computer screen but should be perfect on the widescreen. I'll try that once it comes in...hopefully I can read text :)

1280x720 works best for this TV but overscan may cause some trouble for task bars, icons etc.

But aren't DVDs 720x480?
720x480i, interlaced.

Or is it that 480i is coming out at 60fps and the DVD was recorded at <30fps, so that the same amount of actual information is coming out whether or not it's set to progressive?
Basically, yes.

If so, then what's the big deal about progressive scan DVD players if most HDTVs can upconvert themselves? The only difference would be the quality of the conversion, and who's to say that your progressive scan DVD player is better than your TV?

Yes, that's exactly it. In most cases, on film DVDs, with a decent DVD player, progressive out will be a tad sharper. But DVDs sourced from video may well look better with the TV doing the deinterlacing, since many cheap DVD players don't have sophisticated video-mode deinterlacing. Same if a film DVD has bad edits that cause the DVD player to drop into video mode, or have combing artifacts (if the DVD's deinterlacer isn't the best).

If you are using the new DVI output models you also avoid some digital->analog->digital conversions, and many feel the players also scale better than their set does.

Originally posted by cobalt
Yeah, but you'll see which side of the force is stronger and rejoin us.



Do you mean static images or when moving? (And I assume you mean relative to a 4:3 image of the same picture, right?)

May the force be with all of us. I meant mostly moving images. It can occur on a static image but not as evident. And yes, relative to a 4-3 image of the same pic. Where we notice it most is like during a football game when the cameras pan out or show a behind the QB look downfield.

Originally posted by manpig
I meant mostly moving images. It can occur on a static image but not as evident. And yes, relative to a 4-3 image of the same pic.

In the short two days I've had my Panny, the only blurring I've noticed seemed pretty normal, in that I would have likely seen it with my old 32" CRT. But I'll try to take a better look in relation to the 4:3.

Originally posted by Chris Beveridge
Are there any images anywhere of the back panel of this unit? I'm about two weeks away from the actual delivery and didn't get a chance to check out that part of the set on the showroom floor.
Everyone, be proud of me.... I remembered! :cool:

Oh, there's also an RF input a few inches above this panel. You can kind of make it out in the 3/4 view.

Side inputs

Back 3/4 view

Full-on side view

(sorry for the separate messages, but I can't see a way to attach multiple images in one post)

Damn...there really is NO room for a center channel - Where am I going to put my speaker? There is a window behind where the tv is going...it has to go on top...somehow ---

Also, which audio should I use my interconnect to go from TV to Receiver so I get surround sound with basic tv and DVD?

The Audio Out? (3rd column R/L)

What should resolutions be set at for comp VGA connections? I dont want overscan or any of that other BS.

Originally posted by KostaVan
Damn...there really is NO room for a center channel - Where am I going to put my speaker? There is a window behind where the tv is going...it has to go on top...somehow ---
This has been discussed in this thread or elsewhere. Do a search.

Cobalt - many many thanks for taking and posting the pics. It's alleviated some last minute concerns I had since the onecall site lists only one component input and I thought I was losing my mind. This'll be a hugely different wiring job than what I have now - and for the better! I'm excited!

Originally posted by Chris Beveridge
Sorry, duplicate entry.
Check out the edit command just above the right side of messages. There is a delete option.

Everyone must be happy with their sets for now.. the threads are silent. :D

( I know I am. )

Originally posted by MLM
So far it seems that you can adjust the set to get all the detail you want in the darker scenes, though on an absolute basis you can't get the blacks as dark as you may want.
My experience playing with the Panasonic and Digital Video Essentials' "reverse gray ramps" test pattern confirms this. The gray ramps showed all gradations of gray from black to white, but overall black levels were not as dark as a CRT would have been. I actually liked the picture overlal a little better when I turned down the brightness some, causing some loss of shadow detail, but an overall darker picture.

Originally posted by cobalt
Everyone, be proud of me.... I remembered! :cool:
Thanks for the pictures and other feedback cobalt!

I forgot to bring my XBox controller with me when I evaluated TVs, so I was unable to test this...

Are the 3 Component Inputs all identical in capability, and do they all support 480i/480p/1080i/720p? With my Samsung I have to have a switchbox on my Component 1 since it is the only component input to support 480i and 480p. And to play 720p games I have to switch the component cables over to Component 2 or 3.

I'm assuming the Panny doesn't have this problem since I don't see anyone complaining about XBox/PS2!

Thanks!


EDIT: DOH! Component. Component. Component. I really need to learn to say that word now. :-)

Originally posted by RanmaChan

Are the 3 Composite Inputs all identical in capability, and do they all support 480i/480p/1080i/720p? With my Samsung I have to have a switchbox on my Composite 1 since it is the only composite input to support 480i and 480p. And to play 720p games I have to switch the composite cables over to Composite 2 or 3.


I guess you mean Component inputs not composite inputs. All Component inputs support all the resolution you mentioned. Samsung DLP, OTOH, only support 480i and 480p on input 1 because that's the only port wired to DCDi deinterlace chip and this chip does not support any other resolutions. A bit deficiency in design IMHO.

VFR, I'd like to see a pic of the modification you made. Have you had a chance to snap one yet?

I haven't checked back in a while. A search on '50LC13' now returned a plethora of threads. Has anyone had their set ISF calibrated or has anyone obtained the correct service manual from Panasonic?

Originally posted by hoyalawya
I haven't checked back in a while. A search on '50LC13' now returned a plethora of threads. Has anyone had their set ISF calibrated or has anyone obtained the correct service manual from Panasonic?
The manuals are big and cheap. Call the Panny parts Department.

Originally posted by MLM
The manuals are big and cheap. Call the Panny parts Department.

Can somebody please post that dept. phone number and the part numbers for the manuals?

National Parts Center 800-833-9626 between the hours of 9am and 7:30pm EST Monday through Friday.

Originally posted by KostaVan
Damn...there really is NO room for a center channel - Where am I going to put my speaker? There is a window behind where the tv is going...it has to go on top...somehow ---

Also, which audio should I use my interconnect to go from TV to Receiver so I get surround sound with basic tv and DVD?

The Audio Out? (3rd column R/L)

What should resolutions be set at for comp VGA connections? I dont want overscan or any of that other BS.
I used the hole in the back to support a home made shelf. (See picture)

I just looked for this set at Best Buy and the set has been discontinued. Does this mean that the set is going to be replaced already? Or is Best Buy just droping it?

Originally posted by jakethesnake
I used the hole in the back to support a home made shelf. (See picture)

Jake, I did the same thing. I actually bought a set of rabbit ears for $4 and used them to support a shelf made from built-up and glued cardboard, the cardboard was then covered with contact paper to make it prettier. I know it sounds like it isn't pretty, but (If I say so myself) I did such a good job it looks like it is original equipment for the TV: Total cost, $4 for the antenna pus $2 for contact paper (which I already had). By using built-up cardboard, and alternating the direction of the corrugation each build, you end up with a rather strong shelf that weighs next to nothing, allowing the shelf to "concentrate" on holding up the speaker rather than itself.

Everyone, I've figured out how to get into the service menu, the procedures almost like qouted here from the 40LC12:

Originally posted by flyboy909
mlandau, here's the sequence to get into the service menu of a 40lc12:

There are two different service menus. The first one is called
"factory adjust mode". You enter it from a powered on state by holding down the VOLUME DOWN button on the set itself and the RECALL key on the remote for five seconds. Apparently to get out of this you turn the set off.

To get to the actual service menu, when in the above mode, you hold down
the VOLUME DOWN button on the set itself and the SWAP key on the remote for five seconds. To get out of this mode back to the previous
state you hit RECALL on the remote.

At this point a screen like the user adjust menu appears which has various
submenus. One is called Video Adjust or something similar. That is where I made my tweaks to get rid of red and purple push.

The only difference is that, for the second step, you push the MOVE button instead of the SWAP button.

Now one of your smart guys needs to figure out what each setting in the service menu does and post it here.

I posted the orininal Pt40LC12 version of this.

The only things I have ever done is rid it of red push, which is done,
on the older set, by setting the R-Y, B-Y, and G-Y gains all equal
and the other setting for them ... I forget what they are called
and the post with them is currently hidden in the "archive" ... but
it would be "angle" or "tilt" or something like that ... all to 0. When you find the spot it is obvious ... the red is different. Also, I changed one
gamma by one to fix green dark areas. Other than that, I was too
chicken to mess with much, and what I tried never helped anyway.

Doug McDonald

Doug, yes I remember your post, in fact I have it printed here in front of me (luckily I printed it before the archival), but couldn't find it again to qoute you. I had it in front of me when I was trying to get into the menus, I just started trying set volume remote button combos until one worked, what's funny is that the "Move" button was the second one I tried, right after the "Swap" button.

I do remember seeing the angle options in the service menu, perhaps I'll mess with them, I'l post the results.

I have the new digital video essentials DVD and it contains all three (RGB) filters, unlike the old version that only contained the blue.

With what I've done so far, I've gotten the blue perfect, the green just a hair off and the red, well you know about the red.

Oh, by the way. I can't remember if the solution was in this thread or another, but I tried the "extra toolbars" trick to take care of overscan on the DVI connection and it worked great! The picture in DVI is awseome. I can read my MainLobby screens from accross the room now!

Originally posted by jakethesnake
I used the hole in the back to support a home made shelf. (See picture)

Just a caution, the back panel is where the mirror located. If over time, your speaker's weight cause the panel to contour, you may damage the mirror inside which will render your TV useless. It's just my theory. Never opened my TV.

Originally posted by jrfuda
Jake, I did the same thing. I actually bought a set of rabbit ears for $4 and used them to support a shelf made from built-up and glued cardboard, the cardboard was then covered with contact paper to make it prettier. I know it sounds like it isn't pretty, but (If I say so myself) I did such a good job it looks like it is original equipment for the TV: Total cost, $4 for the antenna pus $2 for contact paper (which I already had). By using built-up cardboard, and alternating the direction of the corrugation each build, you end up with a rather strong shelf that weighs next to nothing, allowing the shelf to "concentrate" on holding up the speaker rather than itself.

I did pretty much the same thing you did except I used silver color duct tape instead of contact paper. The duct tape matches the silver color of the TV set. The weight of center speaker is resting mostly on the TV, the home made shelf is just there to make sure the speaker does not tip over.

Several people have mentioned using a 'puter with the overscan and losing taskbars on the edges of the screen.

There is a better way to fix this than hacking up the TV! If you use gnome under Linux, you can make floating taskbars instead of edge-hugging ones. You can position the floating ones anywhere you want, so you can just drag them out of the overscan area.

This seems like the natural solution to the issue, to me. I assume you can do the same thing in KDE as well.

xizor

What about the vertical bar issue when a pc is hooked up through RGB? Has anyone found a fix????

Also, anyone know why vertical lines are part of the matte finish?

Doug, I followed your recommendations and the picture is perfect. The red, blue and green filters with a test pattern are right on.

At first I though I had screwed the TV up though. There's a shift setting for the TV (tuner) inputs. Once I had gotten the RGB right on the component in, it was totally jacked up on the NTSC tuner. All the blues were gone from the picture, everything looked red and green. I thought I had broken something. Further experimentation revealed that the tuner had a color and tint shift that was sent relative to the whatever service menu settings you applied for the other inputs. I adjusted the shifts down to zero at first, but made the signal my cable company puts out too dull (almost B&W). I added a little bit of color shift back in (I think set to 10) and the picture looked great. My other inputs look great with these settings as well.

I had to pump a lot of brightness into the cable picture too, but my cable is really poor quality and the picture's always been dark.

My old TV had only one picture setting that applied to all inputs, so If I had it set for good DVD playback, then regular TV through the tuner looked too dark, so I had to do some compromising. Now with individual picture settings for each input, I can have an awesome picture on every input!

Originally posted by folgersnyourcup
What about the vertical bar issue when a pc is hooked up through RGB? Has anyone found a fix????

Also, anyone know why vertical lines are part of the matte finish?

What is vertical bar issue? I never saw this on my TV. If you send 1280x720x60Hz through VGA, you will achieve perfect 1:1 pixel mapping and perfect/sharp picture of your desktop (with overscan of course). If, however, you try to change the timing through PowerStrip to reduce the overscan, you won't achieve 1:1 pixel mapping anymore. And all kinds of visual defects could happen.

I think that it is time (for me) to start tweaking the set. Does anyone know whether opening up the light bulb housing on this set will void the warranty? I am thinking about placing a filter on the light path to improve the black level (as suggested by umr). Also, does anyone have suggestion on what brand and type of filter to use?

I'm not positive about voiding the warranty by opening up the bulb housing, but I've already done so on my set, and it doesn't look like anyone would ever be able to tell you were in there. When you pop off the front cover of the base of the TV, there are two compartments you can open up. The left gives access to the bulb assembly, while the center one opens up directly in front of the lens. It looks like adding a filter is going to be ridiculously easy to do (much easier than the GWII in umr's tweak guide). The lens assembly is right there, and it looks like there are a set of "guides" above it that could easily support a holder containing the filter, which would allow you to easily remove or change the filter at any time.

I've been wanting to do the same, and from what I've seen so far, the best filter is going to be an Optiflex CC10R or CC20R. Do a Google search on Optflex filter, the second hit gives a great overview. I've been able to find them for less than $20 online, but I'd like to find someplace local so I can return it if I need a different color and/or strength.

Let me know what you decide to do. I've been wanting to tweak this bad boy myself, but I've only now had it for a month. I think my break-in period is over too, so it's time to get busy.

So has anyone else tweaked their set? I'm anxious to hear any opinions and details.

I haven't did the filter thing, but I did all the regular and service menu tweaks with the help of Digital Video Essentials and the picture is great. The black levels are not the best in the world, though.

I'm very happy with the picture from both regular old cable and DVD through component in. I also have my HTPC hooked-up via DVI and the picture is incredibe.

Originally posted by hoyalawya
I think that it is time (for me) to start tweaking the set. Does anyone know whether opening up the light bulb housing on this set will void the warranty? I am thinking about placing a filter on the light path to improve the black level (as suggested by umr). Also, does anyone have suggestion on what brand and type of filter to use? Since the light bulb is user replaceable, why would opening the housing void the warranty? I don't think so.

toddbloc,

Thank you for your reply. I am still out on vacation but will order the CC20R filter once I get home next week. It seems like umr recommended that filter number also. We watched Lara Croft: TCOL before hitting the road on Tuesday night and we thought that the pq of the DVD was awful. All the black seemed grey and the color was kind of washed out. However, the pq of Lord of the Rings: TTT Extended Edition was spectacular, deep black, and almost HD like. My DVD player is the Bravo D1 connected through DVI. Anybody thought the same?

Thanks.

Originally posted by MLM
The manuals are big and cheap. Call the Panny parts Department.

How many service manuals are there? I read somewhere that someone received two manuals. However, after ordering it from panasonic, I have received only one.
Can somebody who has both manuals post the part numbers for them?

toddbloc,

What size of filter do you think we need, 3"x3" or 4"x4"? Also, I did a CC20R search on this forum and it seems that umr recommended gel filter for GWII. The Optiflex is a resin filter (couldn't find one in gel) and it seems like some GWII users are using Kodak Wratten Gel Filter. What is the difference between gel filter and resin filter?

I'm not sure about the size, it depends on how we can mount it. My guess is that the 4x4 would be best (you should be able to cut it smaller if it's too big). The Optiflex filter markets itself as an alternative to traditional gel filters. Supposedly, the Optiflex filters are a bit stiffer and are more scratch resistant. The optical properties are the same as gel filters, so they still sound like the best bet.

Here's a good description from enhancedht.com:

"Color Correcting filters such as these are important to get the best possible from your projector. You must devise your own method of attaching this filter to your projector lens. These are NOT the cheaper flexible "gel" filters. They are made from a flexible hard plastic resin and can be cleaned just like a glass filter. Filter size is 4 inches x 4 inches. Available in CC10, CC20, CC30 and CC40. Available colors are Red, Green, Blue, Magenta, Cyan and Yellow."

Well, I don't know if this post is more a question, declaration or cry for help (maybe all of the above).

I've hunted high and low for discrete codes for the 50LC13. So far all have led to dead-ends.

- Someone, in these forums, posted some code in the 60+ page thread, but those codes are based on the generic HDTV Panny screens (don't work with the 50LC13, I've tried). The codes can also be found
- HERE (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=discrete&br=panasonic&dv=hdtv&fc=)

- There's also HEX Code for the Plasma based Pannys, haven't tried this yet but I believe I've read they don't work either: HERE (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=discrete&br=panasonic&dv=plasmadisplay&fc=)

- RemoteCentral.com, IMO is 1 of (if not THE) the best sites for info on Learning Remotes and using them. THIS (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-discrete/thread.cgi?keywords=1206&highlight=50lc13) thread shows that we may NEVER see a Discrete Code for the 50LC13! :confused:

Yes, there are workarounds for discrete on/off (X10s, plugging into Receiver, et al.), but how do you workaround toggling the inputs? I have a Pronto and with Discrete Codes and its' scripting capability watching TV or DVD or whatever (and all the steps involved) can be scripted to work with a simple click of 1 button (no longer possible without the discretes. :( )

I hope hope hope Discretes will actually be found, but so far it's looking not so good.

I know this is not even close to as good as discrete codes but you can always use the:

1) TV Channel + or - (takes you to RF input)

2) Then send as many TV/Video commands to toggle/rotate through to the input you want.

This works fairly well with my Pioneer 45tx remote (great remote) which only does a crude 5 command macro.

You might want to play with the delay between those Input Select rotating commands. My remote doesn't have that adjustment and sometimes the TV doesn't get all of the TV/Video commands.

Oh yah don't forget about the PC button, I believe you can use that to get quickly to just the RGB and DVI inputs. (Less TV/Video cmds to send.)

With a fancier universal (like your pronto) than my reciever remote I'm sure something can be worked out. But for the price point this TV is in and with the PQ that it has I'm content with using this work around.

it finally arrived yesterday. Plugged it in, and it looks great. Wife is impressed, Kids are impressed. Even the playback from a standard VCR recorded in slow mode looked pretty impressive.
Looked for dead/stuck pixels, could not find any. I think I'll keep it!!
One question, tried to play a DVD via my the RGB port from my computer but it came out blank. Am I missing something? I tipically don't read the manuals unless I get really stuck. In any case, there is a lot of discovering to be done.

I don't understand "blank" for sure... but if I play DVD's or .MOV files on my computer in dual monitor mode (which I don't use now that my PC is a HTPC)... my secondary monitor (TV had to be primary to get it to work on TV and monitor at the same time) always just showed a big grey box. So playing back a DVD or .MOV file full screen, I just had a blank screen.

For me the solution was to go in the other room, or set the monitor back to my primary display. If that is the problem you are having, make sure you don't have two video devices set up, or if you do, make RGB your primary and DVI secondary. (I have both, but if I plug into DVI, it automatically sets that to be the primary. If I hook up both at the same time, it randomly picks DVI to be master, I don't know why.)

If you only have one output, I would make sure you have updated video drivers, and maybe try a few free DVD players for playback.

(I have a Sammy, but I tested my computer on the Panny when deciding if I liked rainbows in dark scenes or matte finish/screendoor on bright scenes best. I had no trouble with the RGB port.)

From time to time I have to restart my computer because the picture does not come in. It has happened only a few time but never stayed that way after I restarted the computer. I know right before the PC screen should come on I get a reg flashing "signal" once that stops flashing if the picture does not come on I know I need to restart the computer.
But I use a RGB connection.
Also make sure your under the right input and note it might take a second or two for the picture to come on.

Hope this helps.

Newmie

There are two issues here:

(1) does your regular PC desktop show up on TV screen at all? If not, you need to configure your video card to output the resolution and refresh rate that the TV can support. The manual has a full list of what resolution and refresh rate the TV supports.

(2) If your PC desktop shows up but video does not, you need to configure you DVD player to out put to the port that TV is connected to.

RammaChan,

You're right on. Thas was exactly my problem.

Originally posted by hoyalawya
toddbloc,

Thank you for your reply. I am still out on vacation but will order the CC20R filter once I get home next week.
Thanks.

Any updates on trying out a filter? I'd be very interested in the results.

Picked up a 50LC13 today at BB. I returned a GW III 42" that I have had about a month. Loved the Sony, sweet picture, nice controls just deceided it was not big enough and the 50" sonys were not avail at BB.

I must say that so far I am very happy with the panny. DTV HD via DVI looks great! Will try a few DVDs tomorrow.

BTW, BB gave me the Sears price match +10 off the Panny AND the $300 gift card!! Sweet!! Actually worked out to be about a $50 upgrade!!!

So far, we love it. I've been reading all the posts in this thread and have come up with a couple of questions.

1. When toggling back and forth from component input and S-Video for SD programming and HD programming (both from the SA3100HD STB - cable), is there any way to iliminate the 2 RGB inputs and the digital video input and the direct tuner? It's also quite slow when doing so. I guess as some one mentioned here, using the channel + or - then one press forward will take you to s- video 1 a lot quicker than 6 presses (3 seconds apart) on the TV/Video button.

2. Is there a simpler way to switch back and forth between HD and digital (SD) and analogue (SD) other than above? Is there a way to tweak the component input to show SD in just as good quality?

3. Is there any secret to getting used to the different stretch modes? Other than the 'JUST' mode (centre 1/3 left alone and the stretching done on the outer 1/3's), I haven't bothered using it. After watching a HD movie, I never want to see another analogue one!

Thanks to everyone here for all the useful info. I need to update my profile.

Wayne
(Ottawa, ON Canada) Rogers Digital Cable with the SA3100HD STB

There is a short-cut, but only allows you to switch between the last 2 sources. It's the R-Type button below the number 7 button.

That helps a lot. I find watching TV, we're switching back and forth constantly so this shortcut solves that problem. I can put up with toggling to watch a DVD and then back for TV viewing.

Thanks again....now any other responses to other questions?

OK, now that it's been mentioned here how to access the different service menue's, where do you find the lamp hours usage? I've found the 2710 figure under the fan menu, but that's not it. When I first get the screen 1 info (V- on set and recall button on remote simultaneously for 5 sec.), then the normal adjust, ...information, nothing other than NTSC. Then into screen 2 (V- and move button), still nothing under all the different option screens. Anyone steer me in the right direction please?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Ein
There is a short-cut, but only allows you to switch between the last 2 sources. It's the R-Type button below the number 7 button.

This is not generic enough though to switch between any two inputs. I switch between S-Video and DVI. So this button does not work for me (it always includes the tuner which I don't use). I had to set up a macro on my remote to send split-screen, then swap, then split-screen again. I wish there were a generic single button to swap between last two inputs.

My apologies as Im sure this is posted somewhere on this HUGE forum... how do I clean the screen on my panny 50lc?

Originally posted by 59wayne
OK, now that it's been mentioned here how to access the different service menue's, where do you find the lamp hours usage? I've found the 2710 figure under the fan menu, but that's not it. When I first get the screen 1 info (V- on set and recall button on remote simultaneously for 5 sec.), then the normal adjust, ...information, nothing other than NTSC. Then into screen 2 (V- and move button), still nothing under all the different option screens. Anyone steer me in the right direction please?

Thanks!

Check out this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=302579

Originally posted by 59wayne
3. Is there any secret to getting used to the different stretch modes? Other than the 'JUST' mode (centre 1/3 left alone and the stretching done on the outer 1/3's), I haven't bothered using it. After watching a HD movie, I never want to see another analogue one!

Why stretch at all? This TV does not have burn-in problem. I find out normal mode works best on SD channels

Thanks foxbat121. I've got 227 hours in 21 days, or an average of 10 hours / day. At that rate, I hope to get about 3 years. Once the newness and novelty wear off, usage will definately decrease (not to mention the
-48 degrees celcius temperature outside right now!) Thanks again.

For anyone else interested, the service menu access is with the TV off, hold the V- on set and TV/Video button on remote simultaneously for about 7 seconds.

I started a thread to get everyones Lamp Usage and Lamp On counts here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3222081#post3222081

Thanks,
Shawn

Has anyone here tried this feature of this TV yet? I have a digital camera that uses compact flash format memory card. The Panny will accept either SD card or PC card. I know I can get the compact flash to PC card adapter, but then I can only view photos taken with the camera and saved on the compact flash card. I cannot upload photos from my PC back onto the compact flash card as far as I can figure out (get a '.....drive is locked, unlock and try again', but no unlock on compact flash). What I'd really like to do is be able to download original jpg's taken with my camera onto a card that would be accepted and read by the TV. This way I could run slide shows of special trips, outings, etc. without having to save them forever on the compact flash card. The manual for the TV says Hard Disk PC cards cannot be read.

What options do I have? I see SD cards have a lock/unlock tab. Is there a way I could get a USB SD card reader that would allow the upload onto them? Is there any such PC card animal that would work, knowing a hard drive PC card won't?

Any ideas, thoughts, experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

You should be able to use the CF card just like any other removeable media. I read and write to CF cards all the time with my digital camera and my card reader.

Save all the photos on your card to your hard drive and then try to format it and see if it fixes it.

Originally posted by 59wayne
...
Any ideas, thoughts, experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I am in the same boat. I am thinking I'll buy a multi-card reader/writer, and one SD card. Put photos I'd like to see on the big screen on the SD card. Or like you mention, get the PCMCIA adapter. Let us know what you decide and how it works.

I bought a CF to PC card adapter and used it on the set. It works. It's kinda slow though but still has been of use a few times. I'm displaying 5 mega pixel pictures and they look pretty good. Lower pixel pictures would probably be faster to display and still look just as good on the set.

Originally posted by AcuraCL
I am thinking I'll buy a multi-card reader/writer, and one SD card. Put photos I'd like to see on the big screen on the SD card. Or like you mention, get the PCMCIA adapter.

You can get a PCMCIA adapter for Type 1 flash cards for about $10. That's a lot cheaper than an SD card you can't use in your camera, and the adapters works fine in the TV.

ceccacci,
Can you give an example (Brand/Model or link to online store, etc..) of a Type 1 flach card PCMCIA adapter that is around $10. I ask because it is getting harder to find PCMCIA adapters for memory cards and the ones I do find are more in the $30-$40 price range.

Thanks.

Amazon has a SanDisk adapter for $8.95 through Office Depot, J&R Music World has 'em for $9.99. I just picked one up locally at a CompUSA for $15 'cause I wanted it that day. Wasn't a SanDisk, don't remember the brand, but it works well.

I'm also using the Sandisk Compact Flash adaptor. You can see them at http://www.sandisk.com/retail_pc_card_adapters.html.

Got mine at Best Buy. It works very well; I just take the CF card out of the camera and put in into the TV.