Originally posted by Maurice2
Eric, thanks a lot for this info. I didn't know about the 720p factor. I've now tried the guide on all HD channels except 705, 707 and 725 and it works fine.

Learned that one the hard way :)

has anyone noticed that sometimes the tv guide shows info for only up to 2 days?
For example, last night, the guide would only go up to Sat.
Usually it would say "loading", but it did not and just had "No Data".
This seems to happen occasionally.

Originally posted by timewaster
has anyone noticed that sometimes the tv guide shows info for only up to 2 days?
For example, last night, the guide would only go up to Sat.
Usually it would say "loading", but it did not and just had "No Data".
This seems to happen occasionally.

By default I think the guide only has 2 days or so. You have to manually page ahead further to get more. Weird that it says "loading" and then "No Data" if only 3 days ahead or so - haven't had that problem. What has been happening which is strange is the guide seems to forget that you paged ahead after some period of time and then only shows a few days in advance again. Clearest way to see this is if you go to your Scheduled Recordings list, it tracks the guide. So if the guide goes out 2 days your SR list will only go out two days. If you page ahead for more guide data, the SR list goes ahead further, but than randomly seems to reset itself to two days or so.

No apparent pattern. Possibly the box is rebooting and powering back on and I don't even notice. Seems to happen overnight most of the time.

Since I have to bitch about something when it comes to monstrocities like TWC, cell phone companies, and big tobacco, I have to target my energies on a new area now that TWC has given me most of the channels I want.

Can a brotha get a box with an active digital video output???

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely ecstatic that I have a respectable HD tier and bikini destinations will undoubtedly keep us all warm at night, but if I have to get my @$$ up and switch component cables to watch a DVD one more time, I think I'll freak out on Bob Watson.

My HDTV has two component inputs and an HDMI port, which sits there just as lonely as all of you before Bikini Destinations arrived on the scene. I am not going less than 480p on either my xbox or DVD player, so all three must share two TV inputs. This aggravates me greatly.

Can we get a POA (that's "plan of action" to the layman) on either the DVI activation or the 8300 availability date? Is that too much ask? I burn enough calories raising my CAB (that's "carbonated alcoholic beverage" to the layman) every six seconds without having to get out of my seat and mess with the wiring of my system. What if I spill my CAB? Yikes!

TWCNY offers the Pio 3510 and the SA 3250. Both have active DVI outputs that you can use with a DVI->HDMI cable.

Or just buy a cheap component switcher.... like the one MadCatz makes for the Xbox. I think its $20 buks or something along those lines.

BTW, we're talking HD DVR here (SA8000HD)... I'd still have to get up to switch it. Besides, I would like to have my cable box run through the uncompressed digital input to ensure the highest possible quality picture.

Originally posted by EricScott
By default I think the guide only has 2 days or so. You have to manually page ahead further to get more. Weird that it says "loading" and then "No Data" if only 3 days ahead or so - haven't had that problem. What has been happening which is strange is the guide seems to forget that you paged ahead after some period of time and then only shows a few days in advance again. Clearest way to see this is if you go to your Scheduled Recordings list, it tracks the guide. So if the guide goes out 2 days your SR list will only go out two days. If you page ahead for more guide data, the SR list goes ahead further, but than randomly seems to reset itself to two days or so.

No apparent pattern. Possibly the box is rebooting and powering back on and I don't even notice. Seems to happen overnight most of the time.


I did manually page ahead and did not get the usual "loading" msg, everything on the guide says "no data".
My scheduled recording did not pick up anything past 2 days, except for manual recordings.
This lead me to believe that sometimes the guide holds only 2 days worth of data, which is incorrect.
We've been promised 7 days worth of data. Its annoying because I am a previous Tivo user who is used to 2 weeks worth of info.

When in doubt, re-boot.

That’s my slogan.

And, if at first, you don’t re-boot, don’t worry, it’ll crash anyway and re-boot for you.

Have a nice weekend.

Larry

:D

LL3HD, do you work for TWC customer service; that's their solution for everything too. ;) I swear if you call them and tell them you have a problem with your bill they will tell you to unplug and re-boot your box.

I'm all for complaining to get better service and products; and an active DVI connection would be great, but can't you play DVD's on your XBOX?

Drew

the soon to be available 8300 has an HDMI input, correct?

the guide never worked on the pioneer 3510 box on a 720P channel. Youd think they would fix that already

But I have to say as a P.S. that the picture quality on the Pioneer 3510 is awesome!!!...and hardly ever have drop out problems at all

With all the talk about the SA and the Pioneer, I wa wondering if anyone is using the Pace 550 HD box? I had the original SA and it died, so they gave me the Pace. I liked it so much I went and returned my bedroom box for the Pace. I'm running the main systen through a calibrated Panny 47wx49 and the picture is tremendous. I'll still put an ISF calibrated CRT based RPTV against any plasma or LCD, at least for the near future.

Anyone want to take bets on the Knicks game being on inHD tonight?

BTW - I have been enjoying inHD, inHD2, and HDNet very much. They seem like 3 more Discovery's with a little different variety. I especially love the HD graphics and surround sound.

HDNet Movies does not really have much, although I did record The Terminator and have The Professional set up as well.

ESPN has been a let down, although I didn't expect much. I knew that most stuff would be SD. Its just that when I see the commercials for an event in HD, I always thought "why don't we have that?" Now we do, so I am happy.

As far as the 8300 - I am excited although I don't think it will come soon. While HDMI does nothing for me, the faster proccessor will be cool. I thought the 8300 was supposed to have networking abilities; being able to share music, video and pictures around the house. Again that would not do anything for me in my studio apt, but still is cool. So far I have not heard anything about these though.

All of those additional features will certainly be cool, though none so cool as the feature where the box actually works ;)

TM

This may be a stupid question, but is it possible for HD to be sent as 4:3? Last night I flipped on ESPN HD and the Lakers Spurs game was coming in as 4:3 and loooked really good for an SD broadcast. So good that I thought maybe it was HD. Is this possible?

Just tapped the "day" button on my 8000HD remote and set a GUIDE recording for HDNet's Tuesday 8 am 1080i series of test patterns (10 minutes long.) A number of threads in other forums outline how to use them.

Eric,
Recall a few threads about 1080i delivery of some old 4:3 movies in HD, sans 16:9 ratio, so think it's possible (and done). Suspect you spotted a 720p upconvert of a 4:3 game, though. Both 720p and 1080i upconverts (by stations or networks) of 480i, I find, can look very good at times. -- John

thanks John - very useful.

garysi,

I have the Pace 550 and feel that it is superb. Everything about it is perfect, including the often desired simultaneous output from component and S-Video. However, from what I have read here, this STB may only be available from Staten Island Cable.

Cynthia

John, thanks for the heads up on the HDNET test pattern. I searched the web and couldn't find a good source of information on how to use these patterns. If you've found a good source, pleas post a link. I continue to look.

Thanks

Drew

Drew,
The posts on HDNet test pattern use appeared this year, perhaps both hardware and programming forums, or others at AVS. One was very detailed. Maintain a big file of useful posts but don't recall logging any of these. -- John

Edit: A search under (hdnet AND patterns) 1 year back shows 13 hits.

None of the HD channels added since October 2004 have been added to the CC's channel guide. Because they don't appear in the guide, they don't "exist" and cannot be accessed by the tuner. This is very annoying because I can get these channels on the SA 8000HD, but not on the SA CC. Do any other TWC-NYC CC users have tis problem? TWC cannot explain why I am not getting the new channels because they insist they've done everything correctly. Any ideas?

I am curious to know how many TWC-NYC subscribers use the CC. From the lack of responses I've received from earlier postings regarding CC, I get the feeling I am the only person in NYC using it.

TIA....JL

Originally posted by EricScott
This may be a stupid question, but is it possible for HD to be sent as 4:3? Last night I flipped on ESPN HD and the Lakers Spurs game was coming in as 4:3 and loooked really good for an SD broadcast. So good that I thought maybe it was HD. Is this possible?

It's doubtful that ESPN had an HD truck available for that game (there are a limited number of trucks available in the country and most are currently tasked to football - Thursday & Saturday college, Sunday & Monday NFL). There are many digital trucks available around the country and many arenas (Staples Center and MSG) have their own control rooms.

What you saw was the difference between a digital path to HD broadcast and an analog path to HD broadcast. The truck at the game was probably digital; the feed was back-hauled in digital form on fiber-optic lines to Bristol; ESPN's Bristol complex is SD (serial digital) and HD with no analog, so they just pushed it out to ESPN HD; the cable company receives digital and send it to you digital.

ESPN is a great example of SD/HD path integration. Picture quality of their own footage is very good no matter what format it came in (lower quality footage is either from their archive or from another network). Fox is also a better example. ABC is the worst - watch college football on Saturday or golf and you'll see a definitive analog signal degradation (my guess is that it occurs at the network level in New York - commercial insertion is still probably analog). CBS has always believed in an analog world with SD and HD islands - commercials are analog and the Dolby flags are constantly flipping from Dolby Digital in program to Dolby PL in commercials, studio segments, and promos. NBC can't decide what to do - NASCAR seems to be 480P widescreen.

If you really want to see a good comparison during a show, watch NFL Primetime on ESPN. CBS hi-lights come in to Bristol as 1080i or 480i; Fox hi-lights come into Bristol as 720P. All 480i footage is up-resed to 720P and the 1080i is cross-converted to 720P. You can see the difference between the 480i and 720P footage easily, but the 1080i and 720P are much harder to discern.

Originally posted by ghostman
If you really want to see a good comparison during a show, watch NFL Primetime on ESPN. CBS hi-lights come in to Bristol as 1080i or 480i; Fox hi-lights come into Bristol as 720P. All 480i footage is up-resed to 720P and the 1080i is cross-converted to 720P. You can see the difference between the 480i and 720P footage easily, but the 1080i and 720P are much harder to discern.

ghostman

thanks for the info - very interesting. have primetime cued up to record. totally psyched to see PT in HD (or pseudo HD at times).

Jut watched NFL PT and your description was very accurate - Fox came in at 720p and looked great. CBS was either really nice at 1080i (Jets/Bills) or not so great at 480i (most other CBS games). Everything in the ESPN studio looked amazing.

hey everyone, just been reading this thread for the past hour! just found these great forums.

I just hooked up my hd8000 components and everything was good, but sometimes i'll notice background grid or one kind of standoutish (thats a new word:) ) in the left 3/4 of the screen, and for some reason, its all i can stare at now!

I don't have the problem with dvds and have tested on all other component inputs and it still seems to be there, this thing may just be some sort of descrambler line or something, all i can figure. Its not anything wrong with my tv, i was relieved to discover when i hooked my dvd player up with the same components.

Should I get DVI cables? I think that might help it, but dammit, i want HDTV, not HD-just ignore some of the inperfections in the background TV!

Not a huge deal, well, dammit, actually it is, i'm a bit compulsive and obsessive about this kind of thing haha, hope someone can help.

You can check yours to see if you have anything, when u turn the channel and it goes black , you can see the pic start to generate in a kind of grid, see if you have anything.

Thanks guys, glad to be here.

I am having a lot of audio dropouts and pixelization during Cold Case (CBS). It's almost unwatchable. Tried pausing for a few seconds then watching from the buffer. This does not really help.
It seems a little better while watching Deparate Housewives (ABC).
Anyone else having the same problems tonight?

Also found Cold Case to be pretty bad. Jet game earlier today was too. Sounds like CBS is having issues.

Ever since I had my cablebox switched (8000HD)... it has improved my picture. Less pixelation and less audio dropouts. The jury is still out on it though... ive only had the new box for a week and I haven't recorded as much stuff as I used to.

Originally posted by ghostman

ESPN is a great example of SD/HD path integration. Picture quality of their own footage is very good no matter what format it came in (lower quality footage is either from their archive or from another network). Fox is also a better example. ABC is the worst - watch college football on Saturday or golf and you'll see a definitive analog signal degradation (my guess is that it occurs at the network level in New York - commercial insertion is still probably analog).
Watching WABC-DT's upconverted-720p golf coverage Sunday I was starting to conclude something like this, too. Either that or exceptionally poor 'truck' coverage technically. Really nasty video. Coca Cola's logo (a sponsor) was virtually obscured on the periodic score graphics, and white on black lettering of the scores nearly filled in from black 'spillover'. Also, a large amount of edge enhancement on most images really messed up most golf shots. Normally, weekend H/DTV coverage (upconverted) by networks is much better than USA/ESPN/Golf Channel SD weekday golf coverage--usually making most EE vanish. (Virtually all the ads Sunday lacked this bad signal degradation problem.)

Couldn't picture where analog(?!) ABC coverage would creep in, though. Anyone know? -- John

I looked back but can't find it - who's the person here using a cablecard? You'd mentioned a name at TWC - would you please post it (or PM me) b/c I'd like to speak with them. I'm looking hard at the 500GB Sony cc DVR box since I can now also use a roof antenna for OTA...I'd likely keep a TWC HD box (probably one of the better ones with DVI out) but use the Sony for my timeshifting.

But I need to make sure that TWC is working (hard) at getting their cc's to recognize all the HD channels...

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
I looked back but can't find it - who's the person here using a cablecard? You'd mentioned a name at TWC - would you please post it (or PM me) b/c I'd like to speak with them. I'm looking hard at the 500GB Sony cc DVR box since I can now also use a roof antenna for OTA...I'd likely keep a TWC HD box (probably one of the better ones with DVI out) but use the Sony for my timeshifting.

But I need to make sure that TWC is working (hard) at getting their cc's to recognize all the HD channels...

TM

I am using a TWC-NYC SA CC and it is full of problems. The latest problem is documented on page 124 of this thread. If you are referring to Ed Urbanowski of TWC, he wasn't much help when I called him on 11/04 regarding my CC problems. No call back yet and at this point, I don't expect one. He may be very helpful when it comes to STB's, but he knows very little about CC. He took my info, but when he said "Your CC may not be capable oif getting HD channels", I knew I was in trouble. Get the CC, but don't give up the HD STB.

Hope this helps....JL

Does anyone know if the 8000HD's "VCR Archive" jacks work?

TIA...JL

They only work when you turn PIP on. Go figure...

Thanks JL. Hard to justify spending $1000 bux on the Sony cc DVR (or any other one for that matter) when the TWC cc situation is so fubar. It seems to make the 8000HD situation seem well attended in contrast!

TM

A recorded HDNet test pattern comparison, via TWC and a 8000HD, versus the DCT6208 HD DVR via RCN Cable:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467880

Suspect the live HDNet pattern via TWC/8000HD won't look much better next week, but live vs. recorded is needed. -- John

That reduced resolution finding on the 8000HD in that other forum is quite astonishing. 1335 on RCN to 890 on Time Warner is a big drop. Probably an explanation for everyone's feedback on how "blurry" the 8000HD is.

That's enfuriating. Almost nullifies having a HDTV. One would have to assume the DVI's uncompressed output would help (as wuold the next gen 8300).

In response to someone's earlier post about playing DVDs on the XBOX, the console only plays movies in 480i regardless of connection type.

Just got a call from the TWC-NYC CableCARD programmer. She told me TWC has upgraded the SA CC firmware and asked me if I wanted to participate in testing it before rolling it out. She needed to recruit two (2) CC subscribers in Queens, NY, each with a different HDTV for the test. I have a Mits and she said that was good. She told me she would pass my account info to the next level. I am anxious to test the new SA CC firm/software because I want it to succeed. I will keep you appraised of the progress of this exercise.

Regards.....JL

Cool JL, please do, and good luck with the test :)

TM

Does anybody know how much TWC charges for an additional HD STB (non-dvr)? I have the SA8000HD and I'm contemplating getting a non-dvr STB w/ active DVI for live viewing because I'm not all that happy with the softness of the 8000HD.
TIA

Originally posted by QMAN71
Does anybody know how much TWC charges for an additional HD STB (non-dvr)? I have the SA8000HD and I'm contemplating getting a non-dvr STB w/ active DVI for live viewing because I'm not all that happy with the softness of the 8000HD.
TIA

$6.75 (pplus $.22 for the remote), but you also have to pay a $2.00 digital programming duplication charge.

I'm getting annoying static in the left audio channel on Comedy Central. I've noticed it 2 nights in a row now. I have not noticed it on any other channel (though I haven't checked them all). Also, I have 2 boxes, Pio HD box and SD DVR box, and it's happening on both of them. I would try rebooting, but as it is happening on 2 different boxes, I don't see how that would help. Any suggestions? I'd hate to give up the Daily Show.

Originally posted by Sickman
I'm getting annoying static in the left audio channel on Comedy Central. I've noticed it 2 nights in a row now. I have not noticed it on any other channel (though I haven't checked them all). Also, I have 2 boxes, Pio HD box and SD DVR box, and it's happening on both of them. I would try rebooting, but as it is happening on 2 different boxes, I don't see how that would help. Any suggestions? I'd hate to give up the Daily Show.

I have this problem, too. It seems that it is not a box problem, but a signal one.

Originally posted by bigd86
I have this problem, too. It seems that it is not a box problem, but a signal one.

Same here, in the West Village. In fact I don't think I hear it during commercial breaks, only during the programs, if that's possible.

Not even sure who to complain to -- the last time I tried to complain to TWC's repair people about sound problems on one channel it was a huge exercise in frustration -- they wanted to blame it on everything but their signal (trying to blame it on my stereo, the broadcasting network, etc.)

Maybe we can call Comedy Central and complain to them? Maybe they'll get someone to contact the appropriate people at TWC?

Originally posted by scott_bernstein
the last time I tried to complain to TWC's repair people about sound problems on one channel it was a huge exercise in frustration -- they wanted to blame it on everything but their signal (trying to blame it on my stereo, the broadcasting network, etc.) So you've seen this before? How did you resolve it?

Last night it seemed less severe, but still there.

Just a note for those who were looking to get the pioneer box for DVI. Seems Time warner is no longer giving them. Out. I got mine a few weeks back, and my brothers SA box wasnt working right so he wanted to get it exchanged for the Pioneer. The cable guy came and said as of last week they no longer use the Pioneer box's. No DVI for anyone that dosnt already have the non DVR pio box on TWC in nyc

capt

Originally posted by CaptDS9E
Just a note for those who were looking to get the pioneer box for DVI. Seems Time warner is no longer giving them. Out. I got mine a few weeks back, and my brothers SA box wasnt working right so he wanted to get it exchanged for the Pioneer. The cable guy came and said as of last week they no longer use the Pioneer box's. No DVI for anyone that dosnt already have the non DVR pio box on TWC in nyc

capt

DVI works on the SA3250.

Mysteriously, the coax digital output on my 8000HD stopped working the other day. I'm getting my audio via the optical out now, but I'd really prefer to use the coax if at all possible because of the number of optical devices competing for a limited number of inputs on my receiver. Short of getting TWCNYC to swap out the box (which I'd rather not do until I can replace it with an 8300HD), are there any home troubleshooting suggestions you guys can offer? I've confirmed that the problem is not with the receiver, BTW--my DVD player is using a coax input with no hassles at all.

Hi everyone,

I have an appointment scheduled for the installation of a new HD service/box in 2 weeks here in Staten Island.

I understand that TWC no longer supplies the Pioneer with DVI output. However it seems that people have 2 versions of the SA box, one with DVI and one without.

Is it just the luck of the draw in getting a box with a DVI connection?

I know, if I get the DVR I'll be guaranteed to get the connector, but I'm not ready to commit that extra $$$ for that service on top of everything else right now.

Any suggestions on how to increase the chance of getting an SA 3250 with DVI?

Thanks all!
-Pete

Originally posted by peter_moy13
Hi everyone,

I have an appointment scheduled for the installation of a new HD service/box in 2 weeks here in Staten Island.

I understand that TWC no longer supplies the Pioneer with DVI output. However it seems that people have 2 versions of the SA box, one with DVI and one without.

Is it just the luck of the draw in getting a box with a DVI connection?

I know, if I get the DVR I'll be guaranteed to get the connector, but I'm not ready to commit that extra $$$ for that service on top of everything else right now.

Any suggestions on how to increase the chance of getting an SA 3250 with DVI?

Thanks all!
-Pete

(1) TWC-Staten Island is a somewhat stand-alone system within TWCNYC. STBs used in the other boroughs are not necessarily available there (and vice versa).

(2) That someone says that some TWCNYC truck driver told him that the Pioneer HD STB is no longer available doesn't mean that it isn't.

(3) There are 2 SA HD STBs used in the other 4 boroughs: the 3100HD (which lacks a DVI output) and the 3250HD (all of which, I believe, have working DVI outputs).

(4) No DVR supplied by TWCNYC has a working DVI output.

(5) The best way to get what one wants is to go to a TWCNYC service center and negotiate, not to gamble on what a driver happens to have on his truck when he shows up.

On Staten Island we have the Pace 550 box which has active DVI. See if you can get that box since most people with it (including me at one time until I got the DVR) have been quite happy with it.

QMAN71 & Manatus,

Thanks for the info and suggestions! At this point I'm inclined to wait for the luck of the draw. I'm hopeful that once I have a HD box in hand, it'll be easier to exchange/upgrade (I'm on analog service right now) by going to the service center.

I'll have enough stuff to deal with a new TV, digital cable, HD, etc...

-Pete

Is twcnyc ever going to enable the dvi on hd dvr or are we SOL?

Originally posted by neo0285
Is twcnyc ever going to enable the dvi on hd dvr or are we SOL?

good question. some areas (outside of NYC) are now getting the 8300, which has a working HDMI connection. hopefully it will be available here soon.

I know it's kind of late in the thread for a new introduction, here goes:

A week ago, I purchased a Samsung TXP3264 32" HDTV Monitor (480i, 480p, 1080i). Although I loved the image quality of my RCA Component DVD player and MadCatz Universal Component Cable for Xbox/PS2, my composite SA8000 DVR just wasn't cutting it. Maybe it was because I had only experienced TV from a coax line run passed through my VCR, but the image was now very grainy and aliased.

I finally found the time to hit my local TWC office on Kissena Blvd, and in ten minutes walked out with a brand new 8000HD. Excited, I broke out the Monster Component and Audio cables I had purchased along with the TV and wired it all together. Dreams of crystal clear pictures danced as the new box cycled on. Imagine my surprise (horror) at seeing a picture quality worse than anything my old clunker had ever shown. Every standard channel shows horrible compression artifacting, blurry text, and severe banding.

I quickly checked the "700s", the HD channels I heard so much about. Perfect! They were everything I had hoped for, and more. DiscoveryHD looks amazing, with clear colors and fine details. The movie channels looked like my DVD player -- not perfect, but fine enough. I toggled between 701 and 201, the HBO channels, and marvled at the difference.

Is this accurate? Is SD really supposed to look this bad? I tried changing the advanced settings to allow all the resolutions, no luck. I changed from 16:9 to 4:3, and the side bars were distracting and made my wife throw the remote at me!

I've read the 128 pages of this thread, without much hope for any change. I thought if TWC activated the DVI connection it might imrove, but from what I hear that might make the SD picture worse! Do I need to resign myself to the fact that I need to stop wearing my glasses to tolerate basic cable? Please, any suggestions (short of using two cable boxes) would be appreciated!

Hello all...I was just wondering if anyone has an updated list of all the HD ch's that can be picked up with a QAM receiver with TWC. Thanks

Originally posted by Alzheimers
Is SD really supposed to look this bad?
SD with both my old 3100HD and new 8000HD looks quite good. You should be viewing TWC's digital channels (1 on up) unless you select the analog duplicates with a direct cable connection or VCR passthrough.

The problem with a 8000HD, as this thread and several in the HD recorders forum point out, is that viewing H/DTV channels (701 up) plus S-video or video out isn't possible without walking to the 8000HD and switching from HD to SD mode.

You should check that 480i, 480p, and 1080i are enabled in the setup mode (press GUIDE + INFO). Depending on your monitor input functions and your connections, that will let the 8000HD deliver 480p, or 480i (deinterlaced by your monitor, which may do a better job), and 1080i for 720p/1080i sources. For my CRT RPTV I've disabled the 480i 8000HD mode only because my set loses sync completely with 480i YPbPr inputs. (I've kept my 3100HD for S-video into my RPTV.)

SD channel quality, I've found, depends greatly on the source. Premium movie channels or live local news look exceptionally good at times, while sometimes live golf or other sports is poor quality--often becoming excellent when networks finish delivery of a game on the weekends via the H/DTV channels with lots more bandwidth and bits/second available.

Supposedly the newer 8300HD is on the way here (few months?) and will solve the dual HD/SD operation nuttiness.

In sum, SD and HD should both be free of artifacts, via video out, S-video, and YPbPr. Analog can vary greatly because it's susceptible to noise and distortions from neighborhood or building amplifiers. One block might have crisp NTSC (analog) and the adjacent block poor quality. -- John

PS. If you want to see if the 8000HD's reported slight 1080i fuzziness problem is apparent on your 32" monitor, set your recorder to capture HDNet's test patterns at 8 am Tuesday, as outlined here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4648637#post4648637), and ideally view it live once.

Yesterday, ESPH HD and the HDNet channels turned into a digital mess on my 8000 box. I let TW know and they hadn't heard anything about it from others. The problem is still there. Is this a sign my box is starting to go, or are others having this issue in queens? Thanks

no problem for me in queens with those channels on my 8000

John,

I've experimented and tried just 1080i, just 480p, just 480i, and a combination of 480i, 480p and 1080i through the Component cables. I haven't tried switching to SD mode and hooking up the Svideo or composite yet, but I had hoped that with a digital connection the signal would look better. Is my alternative really to have a second box dedicated to SD? The poor quality on the digital connection is hard to explain -- it really looks like poorly coded low-bitrate MPEG1, with heavy artifacting around text, boxing, and banding (a fog image, for instance, looks like three colors -- very 8-bit). Would downgrading the connection essentially "fuzz" out these problems, or is there an alternative? ie, would a service call really do anything?

The HD channels, like HDNet and DiscoveryHD look amazing. I wish every channel looked half as good!

(2) That someone says that some TWCNYC truck driver told him that the Pioneer HD STB is no longer available doesn't mean that it isn't.


Actually we asked for the Pioneer box just like I did when i got mine. The guy who installed the new box wasnt wrong. TW dosnt do the pioneer box's anymore as i called and asked them. They stopped using them a week ago. Thats what the customer rep said. Also the installer found the reason my brother other box wasnt working right. There was a bad line which the guy who brought the first box didnt bother to look at and ran the new line

capt

Is there anyway...because Im already paying for Directv and VOOM and high speed internet through twc...that you could sub to just the basic pack and the new Hd pack? Whats the lowest pack you could have with a HD receiver? the ch that Im missing is INHD 1 and 2...now that TW has added them I feel like Im missing something.

Originally posted by dguild
Yesterday, ESPH HD and the HDNet channels turned into a digital mess on my 8000 box. I let TW know and they hadn't heard anything about it from others. The problem is still there. Is this a sign my box is starting to go, or are others having this issue in queens? Thanks

I've had this problem several times since those channels went online--the InHD channles always seem to be ok. So I don't know what the deal is, but you're not the only one--I'm in Manhattan.

Note: for the most part, they've been fine, but when they crap out, they're totally unwatchable.

Just to tell you guys something from my observations. I just switched to TW from Voom simply for the reason of the dvr, my wife wanted one and there was no discussion. I was happy with Voom. I had i conected through dvi and now that i have the 8000 connected through component, i can notice a significant PQ drop from Voom to TW. I blame the lack of DVI, for most of the difference, because the DVI really shines on the sammy DLP. Needless to say, i am really satisfied with TW and the 8000 but i really hope they activate the dvi or they release the 8300, so i can experience ultimate hdtv experience.

Originally posted by Alzheimers
I haven't tried switching to SD mode and hooking up the Svideo or composite yet, but I had hoped that with a digital connection the signal would look better. Is my alternative really to have a second box dedicated to SD? The poor quality on the digital connection is hard to explain -- it really looks like poorly coded low-bitrate MPEG1, with heavy artifacting around text, boxing, and banding (a fog image, for instance, looks like three colors -- very 8-bit). Would downgrading the connection essentially "fuzz" out these problems, or is there an alternative? ie, would a service call really do anything?

The HD channels, like HDNet and DiscoveryHD look amazing. I wish every channel looked half as good!
Piping digital cable SD into YPbPr really varies in quality between sets and how each processes signals. TWC's digital SD channels definitely shouldn't appear that bad. They're fine here, subject to the source quality I mentioned. You don't need a 2nd converter but switching from HD mode to SD mode with the 8000HD is a pain--unless, perhaps, the converter is next to you for the manual switchover, or someone's devised a reasonable workaround.

I generally don't use YPbPr SD inputs into my CRT RPTV because they don't look so hot, other than DVDs, although not as bad as you're getting. But feeding a 480i TWC channel to my RPTV as S-video or composite and letting it deinterlace and stretch it to 16:9 results in good images--at times remarkably good, although higher bit rates or analog available from sources such as C-band would no doubt look better.

The 3-color problem implies miscovergence and suggest you check with a built-in user test pattern or one from a test DVD such as Avia or another source. The set's three electron beams must be converged to create single-color or white cross-hatch or other patterns over the nearly the full screen; (edges are tough to converge perfectly). On my set, HD can be perfectly converged but either some SD inputs to the HD component section, or the entirely separate SD section (non component) can appear misconverged. Can't recall if you mentioned what NTSC analog signals look like with a direct cable hookup to your set's SD tuner, or a CABLE OUT from the 8000HD. If that's messed up, too, it may be a cable input problem of some type for TWC to fix. -- John

why isn't MNF in full screen HD?? Damn abc and their black bars, it was full 16:9 the past 3 weeks, but when my eagles are on ?NOOOOO wtf is up

Yeah what's up with MNF in 4:3???

ah, minor glitch i'm sure, but dammit, i look forward to seeing Al and John when it busts out in HD on the open lol, i look forward to it.


GO TO!

Just an update on my story -- I've called TWC, they're sending someone out tomorrow to check the line. I've also had some more time to play with the setup; I hooked up some composite cables to the vcr archive jacks as well as a line from the COAX-out to the VCR which then connects to the TV via coax. I then had the following combinations simultaneously:

Cable-->(coax)VCR-->(coax)TV
Cable-->(composite)TV
Cable-->(component)TV

I switched the main (HD) channel to 707 (ABC) and the PIP to channel 7 and switched between inputs to compare the difference. I decided to use channel 7 because Jeopardy was on, and one of my main complaints was about the way text looked on the screen in SD. The difference between HD and SD was remarkable, but there was no appreciable difference between the composite and the Coax line connection. I then switched the main channel to 7 and tried to compare the Component-SD Quality to the composite image. To be honest, it looked about the same.

To sum up: the analog output of SD channels from the SA8000HD looked nearly identical to the image quality of the component SD output.

Finally, I was playing with the stretch/zoom functions of my system and found one more interesting item which should have been pretty obvious. The set I have has a 4:3 glass to accomidate standard TV signal and changes to a 16:9 image with bars on the top and bottom to display HD. At a 16:9 ratio, the SA8000HD shrinks the SD image so that there are bars on the sides of the screen...BUT it doesn't fill the screen with a 4:3 ratio either! In order to make the SD signal full-screen I use the 16:9 ratio with the Stretch option on the cable box to fill the horizontal, then use the "Standard" option on the TV to stretch the widescreen image to fill the vertical. The more I try to make the SD signal fit full-screen on the set, the worse the picture looks. I get no such quality loss (a little distortion, yes; noise, no) at all when stretching the HD signal to fit the screen. But even with the cable box set to a 4:3 ratio and the TV set to a standard image, the picture is still not as good as it seemed to be on my old standard TV.

Im in NYC manhattan and just purchased a new samsung dlp (4674) and the installer reccomends using s video for SD and component for Hd. i would appreicate any user expereince. Basically this seems a bit counter intuitive ergonimically but f it helps improve SD quality by dumbing it down I will go this way . Thanks all

Im in NYC manhattan and just purchased a new samsung dlp (4674) and the installer reccomends using s video for SD and component for Hd. i would appreicate any user expereince. Basically this seems a bit counter intuitive ergonimically but f it helps improve SD quality by dumbing it down I will go this way . Thanks all

Im in NYC manhattan and just purchased a new samsung dlp (4674) and the installer reccomends using s video for SD and component for Hd. i would appreicate any user expereince. Basically this seems a bit counter intuitive ergonimically but f it helps improve SD quality by dumbing it down I will go this way . Thanks all

Originally posted by kbuzz
Im in NYC manhattan and just purchased a new samsung dlp (4674) and the installer reccomends using s video for SD and component for Hd. i would appreicate any user expereince. Basically this seems a bit counter intuitive ergonimically but f it helps improve SD quality by dumbing it down I will go this way . Thanks all

S-Video tends to hide some of the imperfections in analog signals that component would show. However your hookup possibilities really depend on the cable box you choose.

If you want an HD DVR, the 8000HD is your only option and it does not let you run component and S-Video at the same time. Also the DVI out isn't working yet so your only option on this box is component. I use it on my Sammy HLP5063 and SD looks really good - as good as it did on other boxes with S-Video; HD looks really good.

If you don't care about the DVR then get the SA 3250HD - this has a working DVI output (with noticeably better picture for HD channels) and you can use S-Video at the same time (SD over DVI doesn't look great). For this box (which I also have) you should use DVI for HD and S-Video for SD. DVI will provide noticeably better PQ for HD channels but SD doesn't look great over DVI, which is where the S-Video comes in. Also using S-Video gives you more picture size options on the Samsung for SD (if you use DVI you only have Wide and 4:3 - no zoom options; if you use S-Video you have two zoom options).

Once you decide what box to get it will be easier to address your questions.

I called up TWC today and asked them if I could sub to the basic pack for 19.99 and add on the HD pack .....I just want the locals and the HD ch's...they said NO!!! Anyway I was disappointed with this....trying to cut some costs...but it looks like Im going back to TWC from VOOM.

Check this flick out…

Chronos

I recorded this show recently, finally watched it the other night. Amazing! It’s on again tonight and 11/26 on INHD2. It’s a visually stunning, mind blowing, time lapse, IMAX movie that works within the confines of a home theatre, even though it’s probably more spectacular on an Imax screen.

http://www.inhd.com/products/viewProduct.jsp?prodId=14979



Larry

Is there some trick to getting switched from analog to DTV with TWC?

My apt was finally wired for DTV last week (i.e. they put a central cable box in my hall closet) Then I was told to call TWC to get the receivers etc hooked up.

Well I have been calling every day since then and they were stuck in paperwork and kept saying my apt is not DTV ready. Today it finally showed up as ready on their screens but they told me I have to call a special "Changover dept number"
Well no one picks up at this number. You leave a message and keep waiting.
I am getting very frustrated. Do you know how to escalate this? I have heard of a Bob Watson on this board. Do you know if emailing him will help and how do I do that?

Thanks for listening to my rant.

Did anyone have Monday Night Football in HD last night? I was in Dallas for the game and recorded it on the DVR and now I'm watching it and it isn't in HD?

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
Did anyone have Monday Night Football in HD last night? I was in Dallas for the game and recorded it on the DVR and now I'm watching it and it isn't in HD?

Drew
They switched to HD after the first commercial break into the game I believe.

Anyone have issues recording Rebel Billionaire on 705 last night? I'm not even talking about the constant aspect ratio changes. A few minutes into the show, the audio seemed to jump forward a few minutes and was totally out of sync with the video (which froze I believe for a few seconds). Then all of a sudden they were back in sync but I had clearly missed a few minutes of what happened. Tried rewinding and replaying and the exact same thing happened. Then I noticed the recording ended at 8:57 (not sure if the show in fact ended there or if I was somehow cut short by 3 minutes) but I was able to see the ending of the show.

Very weird.

Eric

Thank you for replying to my post. AT this time i do not want to use a dvr. My retailer (harvey elect) supplied me with a basic hd box SA xxx??? There is no dvi and no dual audio outputs-this raises two interrelated issues-

1)Swap the box for a new one if available and addresss dvi and/or s video
2) Aspect ratio-control on tv or on the cable box

Firstly, there seems to be a benefit on the lower grade basic HD box because by not using dvi for HD and S video for SD one can simply change channels from HD to sd without changing inputs- a very unWAF principal.
However, with this box SD looks fine on my sharp but of course there are the black bars. According to the installer even the basic Box should adjust aspect ration for zoom, strech etc. He reccomends that i should upgrade the box continue to use component for both SD and HD and change aspect ratio on on the box.

Is this correct- is this the easiest way? Wont the PQ be better using a DVI.

Secondly, as regards aspect ratio should this be controlled via the set top box or the tv. Thanks again in advnace for all comments etc.

kbuzz,

I've never tried component for either SD or HD on my 3250HD - always used DVI for HD and S-Video for SD, so I can't comment on whether the 3250HD would give you better PQ over component than your current box (my guess is it's a SA3100HD). What I can tell you is that the 3250HD puts out an amazing picture on HD channels over DVI and will look sick on your 74 series. To be honest I barely use the 3250HD for SD channels since I have my other STB so I can't even remember if SD channels look really bad over DVI. If they don't, then that solves your WAF issue - just use DVI.

A few points on aspect ratio. On the Samsung if you feed it anything other than 480i, which you will be doing if you use DVI since DVI can't pass 480i (in other words SD is converted from 480i to 480p, which is why people often complain about the PQ of SD channles over DVI), the only picture size options are 4:3 (which inserts black sidebars) and Wide, which is obviously widescreen. If you pass the Samsung a 480i signal, which you would be doing over component (for SD channels) or over S-Video (for all channels) then the Samsung also has two Zoom options and a Panorama option, which stretches the sides but not the middle of the picture to fill the screen. I personally don't like any of these but some people do.

The 3250HD also has a few aspect ratio options - you can choose to either stretch (horizontally) 4:3 material, zoom 4:3 material or present 4:3 material as is with sidebars. One of the issues with the 3250HD is that it inserts gray sidebars, which can be quite annoying to look at, esp at night. So what I do for 4:3 material is I have the STB stretch all 4:3 so that it appears as widescreen, and then I have the Samsung shrink it back to normal (using the 4:3 picture mode setting) for SD channels. There is a no noticeable PQ impact and then you have the black bars that the Samsung inserts. For HD I leave the Samsung on Wide and it looks really good.

So to answer your question, I think with the 3250HD you should leave the AR on the box alone (stetch 4:3) and simply use the Picture Size button on your Sammy remote to toggle between 4:3 (for SD) and Wide (for HD) - the only two choices if using DVI.

If you use the dual hookup method with DVI and S-Video (assuming you don't like the PQ of SD over DVI) then you have the added inconvenience of changing inputs to watch SD vs. HD and when watching S-Video you have more picture size options to toggle through (5 in total). However, in my opinion, it's worth the hastle for the improved PQ of the 3250, especially if you have the HD2+ chip.

I experienced a strange problem Tuesday (11/16) night and want to know if it was isolated to my connection/TV/CableCARD. At approx. 21:30, all the HD channels (701-725) appeared in SD 4:3 format, including the sidebars. After 15-20 minutes, the HD wide-screen format (where applicable) was restored, but the channel information still had them as "SD 4:3". I powered the set off/on to see if this would change but it didn't help. I eventually reset (rebooted) the set and everything was normal. BTW, the SA 8000HD appeared to work fine when I checked it at 21:45. Anyone else experience this situation?

TIA....JL

I did a search and didn't find this posted already, so I thought I would pass this along FYI: http://www.newsday.com/business/local/newyork/ny-bzdvr164043633nov16,0,957857.story

Regards.....JL

Originally posted by SRFast
I did a search and didn't find this posted already, so I thought I would pass this along FYI: http://www.newsday.com/business/local/newyork/ny-bzdvr164043633nov16,0,957857.story

Regards.....JL

Interesting - article seem to describe SD versions of the 8000 and 8300 though - wonder if CV has rolled out the 8300HD.

Never mind - reread and they do mention the 8300HD. I think CV is on SARA though which sucks compared to Passport.

I take it no one knows or has heard anything regarding when the 8300HD will be released for TWC. HDMI would be huge for me...

Originally posted by SRFast
I did a search and didn't find this posted already, so I thought I would pass this along FYI: http://www.newsday.com/business/local/newyork/ny-bzdvr164043633nov16,0,957857.story

Regards.....JL


Cool, JL.
Always good to know what our neighbors are up to--
but the article was a little confusing.

"…Time Warner Cable… in the metro area, … had 709,000 DVR subscribers as of Sept. 30… the Scientific-Atlanta 8000 box, which stores up to 35 hours of standard-definition programming on a hard drive."

I thought that our box was approximately 90 hours of SD and 25 hours of HD. What’s up with that?

And then the writer goes on to say,

"The Scientific-Atlanta 8300 offered by Cablevision stores up to 110 hours."

No indication of SD in this sentence, though I’m sure that it must be SD.

Oh well.
Good for them, now where’s our 8300 HD?


Larry

Originally posted by LL3HD
Cool, JL.

"…Time Warner Cable… in the metro area, … had 709,000 DVR subscribers as of Sept. 30… the Scientific-Atlanta 8000 box, which stores up to 35 hours of standard-definition programming on a hard drive."

I thought that our box was approximately 90 hours of SD and 25 hours of HD. What’s up with that?


That's why I was confused above as well. The 35 hrs refers to the 8000SD. The 8000HD holds much more. They do mention somewhere that the 8300 would come in an HD version as well.

But I agree - good for them - where is ours

Has anyone called TWCNYC to add the new HDXtra tier? It's free until December 1, but they are charging for it after that date.

I called a few minutes ago, asking that the tier be added to my services effective December 1. The woman said, "Well it's free now, why do you want to add it?"

When I explained that I wanted to take care of adding it to my account now, so I was sure of having it continue, uninterrupted, I was told that she couldn't add it to my account because, "We don't have the codes yet. We should get them by December 1st. You can add it after the free preview expires."

This seems like an absurd answer. I could order the NBA package during the free preview week. Shouldn't they have the codes for the HD Tier by now? Has anyone successfully added it?

They Newsday ad said Cablevision ordered 40,000 8300 boxes... in both regular and hi-definition versions.

Originally posted by jergans
... "We don't have the codes yet. We should get them by December 1st. You can add it after the free preview expires."

This seems like an absurd answer. I could order the NBA package during the free preview week. Shouldn't they have the codes for the HD Tier by now? Has anyone successfully added it?


Ha! That’s a classic example of TWC’s fine customer service.

By the way, the NBA package, is that HD? I was watching last nights game on ESPN HD and it was SD. To make matters worse, they have that long banner on the scoring bench advertising the NBA in HD.

Larry

Originally posted by LL3HD
Ha! That’s a classic example of TWC’s fine customer service.

By the way, the NBA package, is that HD? I was watching last nights game on ESPN HD and it was SD. To make matters worse, they have that long banner on the scoring bench advertising the NBA in HD.

Larry

The NBA package is not in HD. ESPN doesn't do NBA games in HD until much later in the season (I think anyway). All of the TNT games are in HD and INHD shows some of the NBA-TV games in HD.

Hi,

I'm about to buy a plasma and step up to HDTV. Can someone tell me what output connections are on the back of the current Time Warner HD Cable Box(es)? Sorry if this is a newbie question, but I'm trying to figure out how to best connect my home theater, and Time Warner Customer Service doesn't know a damn thing! :-(

I was told there's Component and DVI, but what about HDMI, S-Video, and CableCard?

How about the audio? Does it come in 5.1 channel format? Is it Optical, Coaxial, 5.1 analog? Or is it just a red/white stereo output?

Lastly, I was told there's currently 2 HD cable boxes available - one with DVR, and one without DVR. Are the connections on the back the same for the 2 boxes?

Thanks a lot,
Rich

hi jet

i don't get my HD from TWC(just have direct cable hook-up now) but based on prior experience & info from this thread heres a basic overview:

as of now only Pioneer & the SA 3250HD cable boxes have working DVI output. the Pioneer box is apparently no longer available.

i have never run across a TWC cable box with optical digital output-only coax

CableCard IS available but seems a bit bug-ridden at this time. does your plasma have the cablecard slot?

if you want a DVR many subs are waiting the arrival of the SA8300HD, which supposedly has HDMI. BTW 5.1 analog outputs are used for DVD-audio/SACD.

it may be worth the effort to go to a service center & get an HD box yourself, if possible.

anyone with more accurate or detailed info/advice jump right in. Good luck jet!
jim

Originally posted by jet190rs
Hi,

I'm about to buy a plasma and step up to HDTV. Can someone tell me what output connections are on the back of the current Time Warner HD Cable Box(es)? Sorry if this is a newbie question, but I'm trying to figure out how to best connect my home theater, and Time Warner Customer Service doesn't know a damn thing! :-(

I was told there's Component and DVI, but what about HDMI, S-Video, and CableCard?

How about the audio? Does it come in 5.1 channel format? Is it Optical, Coaxial, 5.1 analog? Or is it just a red/white stereo output?

Lastly, I was told there's currently 2 HD cable boxes available - one with DVR, and one without DVR. Are the connections on the back the same for the 2 boxes?

Thanks a lot,
Rich

Rich --

TWCNYC (except in Staten Island) has used 3 HD STBs during the past year or so: the Scientific Atlanta 3100HD, the Pioneer 3510HD, and the SA 3250HD. The SA 3100HD may or may not still be available. It has a pretty decent output (except for tendency to cast a vague fog over pictures) but its only HD output is Component and its only output format is 1080i. The Pioneer is a great box that is no longer being made by Pioneer and may or may not still be available from TWCNYC. It outputs HD via either Component or DVI and can output all possible video output formats. The SA3250HD is probably still available, has an excellent reputation, and has a working DVI output (as well as Component) and choice of all possible video output formats. All three boxes have digital audio (DD 5.1), either coax or optical (but, if my memory's ok, not both). No STB from TWCNYC has an HDMI output.

TWCNYC is currently offering the SA8000HD DVR. It's a nice and addictive toy but probably not what I'd want as my first HD STB (though it's what I'm now using) because it slightly degrades the resolution of HD programs and is extremely buggy. It does not have a working DVI output and probably never will. It outputs all possible video formats and has both coax and optical audio out jacks. The SA8300HD DVR, already in use by some other TWC franchises, is reported to overcome many of the 8000's limitations. It has a working HDMI output. No one here really knows when, if ever, TWCNYC, will offer it.

No TWCNYC STB has an HDMI output. There are, apparently, a couple of TWC customers somewhere in the outer boroughs experimenting with Cable Cards supplied by TWCNYC and experiencing major problems with them. Bear in mind that the current generation of Cable Cards, even when they work, are one-way, meaning no VOD, etc.

If I were you, I'd go for a SA3250HD STB and enjoy it before venturing elsewhere. It can output a SD signal via S-Video or Composite, which the 8000HD DVR can't without being manually reconfigured, and that's a very important factor for many.

Of course, you should also look at today's NY Times article about the folly of buying a plasma.

Good luck!

Originally posted by Manatus
Of course, you should also look at today's NY Times article about the folly of buying a plasma.

Good luck!


I just read this article.... they say buy LCD over Plasma. The big problem with LCD (that even the article admits)... is you can't get LCD in a large size. The largest "reasonably priced" LCD you can get is that 46" Samsung LCD for about $6200. You can get 50" Plasma for $1000 less. Plus with Plasma you can go larger than 50" if need be.

But thats a whole different arguement. :D If you want to debate LCD vs. Plasma... check out the flat panel forum here on AVS.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
You can get 50" Plasma for $1000 less. Plus with Plasma you can go larger than 50" if need be.

Umm, I was trying to be a little provocative, and I guess I was. One point of the article, though, is that there's no 1080p plasma available today, at any price.

anybody having problems in brooklyn, just lost all my hd channels

right in the middle of the professional... 9:50pm

Originally posted by shigaloo
anybody having problems in brooklyn, just lost all my hd channels

right in the middle of the professional... 9:50pm

I lost a lot of channels too, HD and SD. I just missed the last segment (boardroom) of the apprentice. :(

Originally posted by Manatus
Umm, I was trying to be a little provocative, and I guess I was. One point of the article, though, is that there's no 1080p plasma available today, at any price.


True... just like there isn't any 1080p broadcasts out either. Yea yea... i know they will be out soon.

I actually own a 50" plasma. There is no way I would want to downgrade in size just to have 1080p functionality. I want to go UP in size in the future... not down.

But if you are looking in the 42" range... then yeah you can consider LCDs.

seems to be back. so annoying, tho.

anybody hear about the latest dispute between TW and Cablevision?
They are threatening to remove Knick games on TWC by next week, just like what they did with the Mets.

Watching a currently recording show from the beginning - I think I read on this forum that you could only watch the last half hour, is that true. I was watching the VaTech game last night and started about 45 minutes late and could not seem to start from the beginning. I also had problems fast-forwarding for a while, the "cursor" just bounced back and forth but nothing happened.

Any tips on what not to do? I don't want to ever start to watch a game from the beginning (a half-hour delayed I mean)and suddenly be "live".

Yes-Cablevision has said if there is no agreement with twc of nyc by November 24th they will pull both MSG and FSNY until there is one

Originally posted by BelB64
Yes-Cablevision has said if there is no agreement with twc of nyc by November 24th they will pull both MSG and FSNY until there is one


I just saw this report on the news. WTF is up with this? Didn't they just come to an agreement? Now they want more cash again?

Both of these companies really piss me off.

May have something to do with the west side stadium thing

P/O ny'ers and hold msg and fsny hostage??? ;)

My theory is twc wants the hdtv rights to the channels for nothing and cablevision is being greedy.

Paul

I recently got my Samsung 4674 from Harvey's and requested a Pioneer box from TWCNYC. First I was told that they were not available, but when I went down to pick it up myself (in Flushing), the had one for me.
After 1 day, I had a major problem. HD had no picture and blue striped line down the center of the screen. S-Video and AV inputs worked fine. Both component inputs on the Samsung gave the same result (I was not using DVI at the time).

...Didn't know where the problem was...STB or TV!

Then I connected my DVD player to the compenent inputs for the TV...and no signal.... So I called Samsung for support.

They said "call Harvey's" and try for a new set.

To make a long story short, Harvey's agreed....

Then I went back and tried a few more diags and found that component output was not "on" for my DVD player and the problem was the Pioneer STB. Rebooting it fixed the problem temporarily, by it kept coming back.

I went back to the TWC office and they swapped out the box for another Pioneer 3510 and it works fine.

One of the points I am making is that TWCNYC (at least in Flushing office) has plenty (read: more than one) Pioneer 3510.


Eric

Originally posted by EricScott
kbuzz,

I've never tried component for either SD or HD on my 3250HD - always used DVI for HD and S-Video for SD, so I can't comment on whether the 3250HD would give you better PQ over component than your current box (my guess is it's a SA3100HD). What I can tell you is that the 3250HD puts out an amazing picture on HD channels over DVI and will look sick on your 74 series. To be honest I barely use the 3250HD for SD channels since I have my other STB so I can't even remember if SD channels look really bad over DVI. If they don't, then that solves your WAF issue - just use DVI.

A few points on aspect ratio. On the Samsung if you feed it anything other than 480i, which you will be doing if you use DVI since DVI can't pass 480i (in other words SD is converted from 480i to 480p, which is why people often complain about the PQ of SD channles over DVI), the only picture size options are 4:3 (which inserts black sidebars) and Wide, which is obviously widescreen. If you pass the Samsung a 480i signal, which you would be doing over component (for SD channels) or over S-Video (for all channels) then the Samsung also has two Zoom options and a Panorama option, which stretches the sides but not the middle of the picture to fill the screen. I personally don't like any of these but some people do.

The 3250HD also has a few aspect ratio options - you can choose to either stretch (horizontally) 4:3 material, zoom 4:3 material or present 4:3 material as is with sidebars. One of the issues with the 3250HD is that it inserts gray sidebars, which can be quite annoying to look at, esp at night. So what I do for 4:3 material is I have the STB stretch all 4:3 so that it appears as widescreen, and then I have the Samsung shrink it back to normal (using the 4:3 picture mode setting) for SD channels. There is a no noticeable PQ impact and then you have the black bars that the Samsung inserts. For HD I leave the Samsung on Wide and it looks really good.

So to answer your question, I think with the 3250HD you should leave the AR on the box alone (stetch 4:3) and simply use the Picture Size button on your Sammy remote to toggle between 4:3 (for SD) and Wide (for HD) - the only two choices if using DVI.

If you use the dual hookup method with DVI and S-Video (assuming you don't like the PQ of SD over DVI) then you have the added inconvenience of changing inputs to watch SD vs. HD and when watching S-Video you have more picture size options to toggle through (5 in total). However, in my opinion, it's worth the hastle for the improved PQ of the 3250, especially if you have the HD2+ chip.





thank you . that was incredibly useful, but i have a couple more questions about a similar problem. I have a panasonic DLP and a SA3250 box. right now we have the TV hooked up to the Cable box via the three PrPbY lines iinto component. ) and no S video. I will go and add an S video connection between the cable box and the TV. (what is the DVI connection by the way--how does that work?) the question is whether that will give me the ability to change aspect ratio for individual channels while channel surfiing via use of the TV remote control. When I called Panasonic to ask about why the aspect ratio control on the TV remote did not work, they told me that any time I had a HD feed, the aspect ratio control on the TV remote would not work, and that applied whether or not individual channels were coming through as SD or HD. Basically, what I would like to do is to watch all SD programming in 4:3, except when something is letterboxed, when I would like to use the TV remote to change aspect ratio to zoom or just formatfor just that channel.

Right now, I am unable to do that, and any time I find a SD channel in letterbox I have to change the defaults on all cable output using the cable remote. That's a little unwieldy. Will adding a S video connection change that, and allow the TV remote to perform the AR change? From a response to a similar question, I learned that part of the problem might be that I cannot change aspect ratio on anything other 480i. Is that true, and if so, should I change the output format on the TV to something lower by using the remote for the SA3250 (I don't seem to able to select multiple output formats, and the default is set at 1080i). Perhaps that will change with an S video connection as well. I will try that, but in the meantime, any assistance on how to deal with this issue would be greatly apprceciated

Thanks very much.

sammysamosa,

I really can't give you a good answer since I don't have a Panasonic DLP. Each TV handles aspect ratio control different. My guess, however, is that you have the cable box set to output 1080i for all channels over component. When the Panasonic gets a 1080i signal over component there are no AR options. If you were to pass the Panasonic a 480i signal over component or S-Video (note - S-Video only passes 480i) then I bet you will have more AR controls on the Panasonic.

If you are using component on the 3250, you should be able to set the output formats. For your DLP I would choose 480i and either 1080i or 720p. Even though the NR on my DLP is 720p, I choose 1080i instead b/c more HD channels are 1080i NR so these are passed as is. For 720p channels there are actually dual conversions - the 3250 scales 720p to 1080i and the TV scales 1080i to 720p - not ideal but again this only affects a few channels.

IIRC correctly the Panny DLP doesn't have a DVI input - just HDMI. HDMI and DVI are both digital connections, which theoretically should provide the best possible picture quality since an unaltered digital signal is passed to the digital display and no digital/analog and analog/digital conversions take place (over component they do). HDMI is a newer version of DVI, which also passes 5.1 audio (DVI passes video only) and is fully backwards compatible with DVI. You can get a DVI to HDMI cable to use the 3250 with your DLP. Typically SD looks crappier over DVI or HDMI than it would over Component, which is why many people run S-Video in parallel with DVI/HDMI.

EricScott - Thanks for the info on setup. You suggestions are spot-on. I am using the 3510 DVI connection and S-Video all in the modes you suggested. One quesiton though...should I allow 1080i output from the Pioneer or should I change that to 720p only? Which unit can convert 1080i to 720p better, the STB or the Samsung 4674?


Eric

Originally posted by emauss
EricScott - Thanks for the info on setup. You suggestions are spot-on. I am using the 3510 DVI connection and S-Video all in the modes you suggested. One quesiton though...should I allow 1080i output from the Pioneer or should I change that to 720p only? Which unit can convert 1080i to 720p better, the STB or the Samsung 4674?


Eric

The Samsung will do a better job than the STB at scaling the image. If you are using DVI you ideally want to have the STB do no converting at all. On the 3250HD this isn't entirely possible since you have to choose either 720p or 1080i (you can't choose both). On the Pioneer I believe (haven't had this box for a while) that you can choose both 720p and 1080i and the box will pass both as is to the Samsung. The only resolution you cannot pass over DVI to the Samsung is 480i - this is why all SD is converted to 480p (I believe) and why many people don't like SD PQ over DVI. That's where the S-Video connection comes in - you get 480i over S-Video and get 720p or 1080i over DVI.

BTW - the Pioneer technically is a superior box to the 3250 except for two really big annoyances, which ultimately drove me to switch:

1) Rebooting - I found that when I connected with DVI to my Samsung that when I turned my Samsung off, the Pioneer would most of time end up powering down afterwards. So the next day when I wanted to watch something I had to power on the Pioneer first.

2) Problems with the Guide on 720p Channels - If you try accessing the guide on 720p channels (705, 707, 725) the box goes crazy - these pink and white vertical lines appear on the screen and the box freezes. Only way to fix it is to unplug the Pioneer and then replug and let it reboot (simply powering down doesn't work).

The 3250 doesn't have either of these problems but unfortunately makes you choose 720p or 1080i (not both) and it inserts gray sidebars for 4:3 material which I don't like. No such thing as the perfect box.

Glad I can be helpful.

EricScott - You said...

"1) Rebooting - I found that when I connected with DVI to my Samsung that when I turned my Samsung off, the Pioneer would most of time end up powering down afterwards. So the next day when I wanted to watch something I had to power on the Pioneer first.

2) Problems with the Guide on 720p Channels - If you try accessing the guide on 720p channels (705, 707, 725) the box goes crazy - these pink and white vertical lines appear on the screen and the box freezes. Only way to fix it is to unplug the Pioneer and then replug and let it reboot (simply powering down doesn't work)."

I do not have any of these problems. The Guide is very slow in opening when using the DVI, and the "info" button, when pressed, creates an interesting right to left opening window as the info for the individual item appears (very slowly!). The box has 2004 firmware...the diags menu shows an OS date of May 5 2004 and a driver date of May 18, 2004.

If you haven't seen the diags menu, it is very interesting. For anyone interested, it is accessable by holding the "source" and "diamond" buttons until "diag6" appears, then press the "diamond" again. Then use the down arrows for a ton of information..including network address, server address, PPVs, and a host of other things you and I would not normally see.

Eric

Originally posted by emauss
EricScott - You said...

I do not have any of these problems. The Guide is very slow in opening when using the DVI, and the "info" button, when pressed, creates an interesting right to left opening window as the info for the individual item appears (very slowly!). The box has 2004 firmware...the diags menu shows an OS date of May 5 2004 and a driver date of May 18, 2004.

Eric

Well if you don't have the above mentioned problems then the Pioneer is as good as it gets right now. Are you sure you don't have the 720p problem? The IPG works fine (as you said slowly) on every channel other than 720p channels. Not that you should intentionally freeze your box, but it wouldn't surprise me if you have the problem.

The rebooting was the really annoying issue for me. The 720p IPG issue is clearly avoidable - just don't check the guide on those channels.

Originally posted by EricScott
Well if you don't have the above mentioned problems then the Pioneer is as good as it gets right now. Are you sure you don't have the 720p problem? The IPG works fine (as you said slowly) on every channel other than 720p channels. Not that you should intentionally freeze your box, but it wouldn't surprise me if you have the problem.

The rebooting was the really annoying issue for me. The 720p IPG issue is clearly avoidable - just don't check the guide on those channels.



I am not sure, now that you mention it. Which channels in particular are we speaking of? Any who says that one should not try to debug a situation by finding a fully repeatable problem?



Never mind. I found them with the info button on the TV and yes, one of them does freeze the set...
Eric

EricScott - Well, I found an answer (that I am sure others have found in the past). I do not allow 720p to be output by the box (I guess similar to what you get form the SA unit). The box will up-convert and the Sammy will down-convert. Double conversion, but....not flakey Guide screens at 720P.

Eric

EricScott -
Well...it did work for a a time or two...then it went back to n.g. output and I had to reboot the box. I am planning at this point to wait for the SA8300 to be available and just go to that.

(e)

Originally posted by emauss
2) Problems with the Guide on 720p Channels - If you try accessing the guide on 720p channels (705, 707, 725) the box goes crazy - these pink and white vertical lines appear on the screen and the box freezes. Only way to fix it is to unplug the Pioneer and then replug and let it reboot (simply powering down doesn't work).
No need to unplug the Pioneer STB.
The following has worked for me when I have inadvertently tried to access the Guide on a 720p channel:

Turn off TV and STB.
Press and hold Power button on STB until word BOOT appears on STB. Let go.
When correct time appears on STB, restart TV and STB. The word PASSPORT will appear on TV screen together with small blinking lights. Wait till these disappear and a regular TV image appears. You will now be on channel 1. Tune to the channel you wish to watch.

Originally posted by Maurice2
No need to unplug the Pioneer STB.
The following has worked for me when I have inadvertently tried to access the Guide on a 720p channel:

Turn off TV and STB.
Press and hold Power button on STB until word BOOT appears on the STB. Let go.


That is a warm re-boot. Comparable to pressing the "reset" button on a PC.

...and, unfortunetly it takes almost as much time as a cold re-boot (unplugging).

Anyone getting picture drop-outs on the Falcons/Giants game? Picture goes black for a few seconds?

Originally posted by mabrym
Anyone getting picture drop-outs on the Falcons/Giants game? Picture goes black for a few seconds?

Yes - very annoying. Getting them on both my 3250 and my 8000HD. Joe Buck even made a comment about it. Seems to have improved in the last few minutes. Too bad Toomer can't catch the freakin ball.

Does anyone else notice that the Knicks game on 721 (INHD) is so incredibly low on volume its pretty much unwatchable?

Now I get no picture. Is there a backout of this channel?

Bob Watson said that we would get Knicks HD games on inHD, so that is why we did not need MSG HD. Instead of getting that, we don't even get the game when it actually should be on.

Now TWC and Cablevision are negotiating again. Didn't they just do that 6 months ago?

Hey dkan:

Can you verify that you are having the same problem with this channel? I am getting no picture and my receiver is wigging out.

TWC cust service is insisting they can get a picture and its just a problem with my set.

I too do not get a signal on 721. I'm in Queens.

There is just a gray screen. No way is it picture problems. The game is clearly blacked out in New York.

Ok... well more BS lies from Time Warner. I have a service call set up for this Saturday. Maybe i'll just let them come out and waste their time and I wont be home... just like they wasted 2hrs of my time today on the phone with these idiots... just to have them tell me I have a problem with my box and its NOT blacked out. Grrrrr.

Thanks for the info guys.

I was so looking forward to the Knicks game last night on 721. What a crime!

I noticed the screen was gray. I assumed it was my stupid SA 8000 HD DVR (yes this one, my second one, is acting up again just as the previous one did). I called customer service and they assured me that there was no black out on 721. She said she was watching the game on 721—it must be your box. Good old TW, always on top of the situation.

What a coincidence, moments after the game-- the picture came back. This really is despicable! We can’t get MSG HD and the one time the Knicks are broadcast in HD – we get a gray screen. This is infuriating!

Regarding this second crappy SA 8000 HD DVR, I have a scheduled appointment this Wednesday afternoon. I scheduled this last week at the first sign of it acting up. And I called three times over the last 5 days to reconfirm this appointment to remind these inept fools to bring a new box. I’d bet the farm that the techy will not have a replacement box.

I think I’ll swap it out myself tomorrow morning and keep the appointment anyway. I can’t take the chance of having TW screw up my Thanksgiving and leave me with a malfunctioning box that re boots at will. It’s bad enough that I had recordings on the DVR that I was planning on entertaining with on Thanksgiving.

HD was supposed to be fun. We should be enjoying this. Instead we pay good money for incompetence and frustrations. Is it me?? Has anyone else exchanged their HD DVR? Are others having problems with—random crashing causing re-booting, freeze ups, PIP not working right, the ‘list’ menu screen informing to retry, etc etc.??? Anybody?

Just for the record -- the DVR is at no more than half its capacity. My cable was thoroughly checked out at two previous service calls.



Larry

Originally posted by LL3HD
Are others having problems with—random crashing causing re-booting, freeze ups, PIP not working right, the ‘list’ menu screen informing to retry, etc etc.??? Anybody?

Haven't used the 8000HD's DVR section that heavily. But discovered recently that when I couldn't get GUIDE menus to display at all, that pressing the TV button on my remote seemed to fix the problem. I've had pause and back or fast forward screw up a few recorded programs

TWC, though, seems to be pulling, in effect, a near-720p downrezzing with the 8000HD--akin to what DirecTV's doing with its customers. (You'd think cable companies would want to use their potential bandwidth advantage to enhance resolution compared to DBS.) That's due to the 'fuzziness' of 8000HD (live or recorded) images that actually shrinks resolvable detail to ~890 lines on my CRT RPTV ( posted last week (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4664241#post4664241)).

By contrast, slightly 'foggy' images from my 3100HD measure about 1290 lines of resolvable horizontal detail, and HDNet's test pattern via RCN Cable on their DCT6208 HD DVR measures ~1335 lines. Someone in the HD recorders forum (an engineer in Vegas) attributes this low-rez 8000Hd problem to the wrong drivers (firmware) for the video-output section, and wrote that cable systems with other than SA hardware, such as Staten Island's Pace 550 boxes, can't distribute system-wide firmware to fix the problem. -- John

Originally posted by jergans
Has anyone called TWCNYC to add the new HDXtra tier?...

In case you haven't already gotten an answer from TWC - I was quoted $8.95 per month to add the new HD channels. Billing should start in Dec...

Anyone else hear anything new on the 8300? I am hoping for early January...

Originally posted by ebrigham
In case you haven't already gotten an answer from TWC - I was quoted $8.95 per month to add the new HD channels. Billing should start in Dec...

Anyone else hear anything new on the 8300? I am hoping for early January...


You can get both the HD DVR and Hi-Def Plus for $15 total. When I was on the phone with the CSR supervisor yesterday... I had her add this to my package... effective December 1st.

Lets see if it gets put on there.

Originally posted by ebrigham
Anyone else hear anything new on the 8300? I am hoping for early January...

I happened to be on the phone with a TWCNYC CSR Saturday evening about a problem unrelated to HDTV. When he brought up my account information on his computer and noticed that I had an 8000HD DVR, he told me that he was getting one himself today and asked me what I thought of it. After I finished my brief rant, I mentioned that TWCNYC will probably be getting an improved model --the 8300HD-- at some point. He told me that he'd never heard of it. As far as I know, no TWC system outside NYC is yet using 8300s with the Passport OS, and if history is a good predictor, I wouldn't expect any to show up here for several months, at least, after they appear elsewhere.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
You can get both the HD DVR and Hi-Def Plus for $15 total. When I was on the phone with the CSR supervisor yesterday... I had her add this to my package... effective December 1st.

Lets see if it gets put on there.

Oh yeah. I should mention my price was not for the package deal. I am still waiting for the 8300 before I get the HD DVR.

Originally posted by Manatus
I happened to be on the phone with a TWCNYC CSR Saturday evening about a problem unrelated to HDTV. When he brought up my account information on his computer and noticed that I had an 8000HD DVR, he told me that he was getting one himself today and asked me what I thought of it. After I finished my brief rant, I mentioned that TWCNYC will probably be getting an improved model --the 8300HD-- at some point. He told me that he'd never heard of it. As far as I know, no TWC system outside NYC is yet using 8300s with the Passport OS, and if history is a good predictor, I wouldn't expect any to show up here for several months, at least, after they appear elsewhere.

Thanks for the update. I won't get my hopes up then...

I'll be honest... after they swapped out my 8000HD box with one of the "newer model" 8000HDs... my issues definitely decreased. I still get some pixelation and audio dropouts... but its not nearly as bad as my prior box.

The jury is still out though. Yeah I want an 8300HD as well... but the ability to record HD content is reason enough for me to deal with the interim BS.

Originally posted by LL3HD
I was so looking forward to the Knicks game last night on 721. What a crime!

I noticed the screen was gray. I assumed it was my stupid SA 8000 HD DVR (yes this one, my second one, is acting up again just as the previous one did). I called customer service and they assured me that there was no black out on 721. She said she was watching the game on 721—it must be your box. Good old TW, always on top of the situation.

What a coincidence, moments after the game-- the picture came back. This really is despicable! We can’t get MSG HD and the one time the Knicks are broadcast in HD – we get a gray screen. This is infuriating!

Regarding this second crappy SA 8000 HD DVR, I have a scheduled appointment this Wednesday afternoon. I scheduled this last week at the first sign of it acting up. And I called three times over the last 5 days to reconfirm this appointment to remind these inept fools to bring a new box. I’d bet the farm that the techy will not have a replacement box.

I think I’ll swap it out myself tomorrow morning and keep the appointment anyway. I can’t take the chance of having TW screw up my Thanksgiving and leave me with a malfunctioning box that re boots at will. It’s bad enough that I had recordings on the DVR that I was planning on entertaining with on Thanksgiving.

HD was supposed to be fun. We should be enjoying this. Instead we pay good money for incompetence and frustrations. Is it me?? Has anyone else exchanged their HD DVR? Are others having problems with—random crashing causing re-booting, freeze ups, PIP not working right, the ‘list’ menu screen informing to retry, etc etc.??? Anybody?

Just for the record -- the DVR is at no more than half its capacity. My cable was thoroughly checked out at two previous service calls.



Larry


you are not alone.
Many people including me have reported numerous annonying problems with the 8000HD

I've decided to ditch the 8000HD, which took TW three appointments to install, and replace it with the old Pioneer box or the newer SA one. The PQ of the 8000HD is a big step down, and I'm sick of the endless bugs. I also think the box is ugly as hell, which wouldn't matter as much if it worked.

Does anyone else have the problem of the 8000HD displaying a partial image and outputting audio even when it is turned off?

HD was supposed to be fun. We should be enjoying this. Instead we pay good money for incompetence and frustrations. Is it me?? Has anyone else exchanged their HD DVR? Are others having problems with—random crashing causing re-booting, freeze ups, PIP not working right, the ‘list’ menu screen informing to retry, etc etc.??? Anybody?

i'm in the market to get a hdtv ( plasma most likely ) but been holding off for the reasons like the ones listed above. I love my regular DVR, but it concerns me that HD DVR seems so buggy.

very much a newb question: but can't we use non TWC DVRs ? ReplayTV has an HD model and many people are building HTPC with DVR functionality -- and there are a few other ones, no ? Or are we stuck with the DVR device that TWC gives us ?

And if other TWC markets are using the new and improved 8300 series, can't we just buy that model and use it here in new york ?

thanks.

does anyone know if TWC's SA 3250HD boxes have a pass-thru input? on the SA website it shows this as an optional feature & mentions this input can be used with another device. the loop-thru has component HD video & digital audio inputs. what i'm thinking of is upgrading to TWC HD service(can bundle it with RoadRunner at no added cost) & this input would mean i wouldn't need an outboard Video switcher. my display only has 2 component inputs(used now for D* & my DVD player) & no DVI. FYI this box can also be ordered with Firewire(IEEE) outputs but i'm seriously doubting TWC uses these. thanks for the help!

jim

Originally posted by HDntheCity
does anyone know if TWC's SA 3250HD boxes have a pass-thru input? on the SA website it shows this as an optional feature & mentions this input can be used with another device. the loop-thru has component HD video & digital audio inputs. what i'm thinking of is upgrading to TWC HD service(can bundle it with RoadRunner at no added cost) & this input would mean i wouldn't need an outboard Video switcher. my display only has 2 component inputs(used now for D* & my DVD player) & no DVI. FYI this box can also be ordered with Firewire(IEEE) outputs but i'm seriously doubting TWC uses these. thanks for the help!

jim

My 3250HD does not have a pass through - it doesn't have any A/V inputs for that matter. TWC does have 3250HD's with firewire but you need to specially request one and apparently need to have a firewire device to hook it to or the installer won't leave the box. Not sure if hte firewire 3250's have pass through.

thanks Eric!!

from what i saw on the SA website the pass-thru inputs & Firewire inputs look like an either/or feature-you can have one but not both. if you're interested go to scientificatlanta.com (sorry-STILL don't how to post links ) & follow links to their product catalog. there are good pics of the back panels. there're pdf files-you'll need Acrobat reader. but when i make the upgrade i'll ask for an SA 3250HD with pass-thru & see what happens. can always get that $10 R Shack switcher. BTW if you can get the box with Firewire outputs will it work with a D-VHS deck? thanks again.

jim

Originally posted by HDntheCity
thanks Eric!!

from what i saw on the SA website the pass-thru inputs & Firewire inputs look like an either/or feature-you can have one but not both. if you're interested go to scientificatlanta.com (sorry-STILL don't how to post links ) & follow links to their product catalog. there are good pics of the back panels. there're pdf files-you'll need Acrobat reader. but when i make the upgrade i'll ask for an SA 3250HD with pass-thru & see what happens. can always get that $10 R Shack switcher. BTW if you can get the box with Firewire outputs will it work with a D-VHS deck? thanks again.

jim

Yes. There is a huge 3250 thread somewhere where numerous people are successfully using the 3250 with a D-VHS unit.

thanks again. don't have a D-VHS deck but i was curious.

jim

Originally posted by HDntheCity
thanks again. don't have a D-VHS deck but i was curious.

jim

You have a PM.

Anyone try to trade in an HD box for the 8000HD lately at 23rd st? I'll need to do so soon and was wondering if they still have them lying around...

I'm still using the 3100HD if you can believe it :)

TM

Can someone please answer these questions about STB's before I go buy a plasma?

So far I've been hearing that the SA 8000 DVR boxes are buggy, so I should just ask for a SA 3250 if I don't need DVR right?

I might get a Panasonic TH-42PD25U plasma, which can't accept a 720p signal (except from a computer vga input). Is this gonna be a problem? I read that with the SA 3250 you have to choose whether to output 720p or 1080i? What exactly does this mean? NBC/CBS output 1080i and ABC/ESPN output 720p or something like that right? Since the Panasonic can't accept 720p, do I just make the STB output 1080i all the time? Even when I watch ESPN's 720p signal???

I heard watching SD channels over DVI is bad, so some people connect both DVI for HD and S-Video for SD at same time. If I do that I can still connect my own DVR or DVD recorder to the S-video and record the SD channels right? Since component is better than S-video, how come you guys don't use DVI for HD and component for SD?

Finally, the other plasma I've considering is the Samsung SP-P4251. Picture quality aside, does anyone have any feedback on the Samsung vs Panasonic when connected to the SA 3250? Specifically, how the two plasmas handle aspect ratios?

Thanks a lot,
Rich

SA3100HD questions

Hello all,

TWC installed a new SA3100HD this morning for my new TV and I'm just amazed at the HD pictures. I just had a few quick questions for those in the know here:

1. There seems to be no way to change the HD component output between 720p or 1080i, correct? I assume it runs 1080i by default.

2. When using the component outputs for SD channels, is there any way to have the STB stretch the picture and remove the sidebars? My display cannot stretch HD signals is seems, so right now I jump over to the s-video input to stretch the SD signals.

Thanks in advance for the help.
-Pete

Rich,

I have the Panasonic commercial plasma and I'm not able to use any of the of stretch modes on the display to fill the screen when using the component inputs of a Scientific Atlanta 3100HD box.

I think this box is a pretty basic one. If you live in Manhatten, you may get the more advanced 3250 box that may have more options.

-Pete

Alright, looks like I answered my own question after some research...

The SA3100HD is an ancient box that needs to be upgraded. Does anyone on Staten Island know if they still have Pace 550's available for exhange at the Richmond Ave. service center?

The presence of bars with SD material is not that big a deal, I can switch to the s-video input, but if there is a better alternative w/o going the DVR route. Damn, here I have the box and HD for less than 12 hrs and I'm looking to upgrade already!

Thanks!
-Pete

Originally posted by jet190rs
Can someone please answer these questions about STB's before I go buy a plasma?

So far I've been hearing that the SA 8000 DVR boxes are buggy, so I should just ask for a SA 3250 if I don't need DVR right?

I might get a Panasonic TH-42PD25U plasma, which can't accept a 720p signal (except from a computer vga input). Is this gonna be a problem? I read that with the SA 3250 you have to choose whether to output 720p or 1080i? What exactly does this mean? NBC/CBS output 1080i and ABC/ESPN output 720p or something like that right? Since the Panasonic can't accept 720p, do I just make the STB output 1080i all the time? Even when I watch ESPN's 720p signal???

I heard watching SD channels over DVI is bad, so some people connect both DVI for HD and S-Video for SD at same time. If I do that I can still connect my own DVR or DVD recorder to the S-video and record the SD channels right? Since component is better than S-video, how come you guys don't use DVI for HD and component for SD?

Finally, the other plasma I've considering is the Samsung SP-P4251. Picture quality aside, does anyone have any feedback on the Samsung vs Panasonic when connected to the SA 3250? Specifically, how the two plasmas handle aspect ratios?

Thanks a lot,
Rich

(1) Obviously, you shouldn't get a DVR, instead of a regular HD STB, unless you want one for its additional -- and in my view, compelling -- features. I don't know how successful you're going to be asking TWCNYC for a specific box but guess that if you do want one, you're going to be more successful if you go to one of the service centers instead of depending on what some guy brings you on his truck. The SA box isn't your only option -- the Pioneer 3510HD is an excellent piece of equipment and is, apparently, still available (at the service centers, at least).

(2) Having a TV that doesn't accept a 720p signal is a limitation but not necessarily a major problem. I haven't used a SA3250, but I'm pretty sure that it allows the user to configure it to output all possible signal formats, not just "720p or 1080i." The STB will convert all signals that it receives to the specified output format(s). Since every format conversion degrades the signal, having a STB upscale a 720p signal to 1080i (because a particular plasma can't handle 720p) only to have the TV rescale it to 768p (a plasma's native resolution) is an especially bad idea.

(3) SD programs look bad on all HDTVs. The question is how bad. I'd suggest a little skepticism about claims that using non-HD connections for SD yields better PQ. In my experience (I have a Sammy DLP HDTV) it doesn't, but every viewer's eyes and equipment are unique. In fact, TWCNYC's SD channels are a mix of both analog and digital signals of widely-varying quality. Some will look good on a HDTV; other won't.

What equipment you can and can't connect to a TWCNYC STB depends on the features and limitations of the STB. The Pioneer HD STB, for example, automatically disables the Component outputs whenever a cable is connected to the DVI output (presumably to prevent the box from outputting a HD signal over two outputs), and I suspect that the SA box has the same constraint.

(4) I'd suggest that you spend some time in the Display Devices/Plasma fora to gather opinions about the relative merits of the two Panny and Sammy TVs that you're considering getting.

(5) Finally (though you haven't posed this question), do you really want to spend mega $$$ on a 768p plasma TV when non-plasma 1080p sets are now appearing in the marketplace? Just a thought.

Good luck!

Originally posted by peter_moy13
Alright, looks like I answered my own question after some research...

The SA3100HD is an ancient box that needs to be upgraded. Does anyone on Staten Island know if they still have Pace 550's available for exhange at the Richmond Ave. service center?

The presence of bars with SD material is not that big a deal, I can switch to the s-video input, but if there is a better alternative w/o going the DVR route. Damn, here I have the box and HD for less than 12 hrs and I'm looking to upgrade already!

Thanks!
-Pete
I was at the Richmond Ave. service center on Friday and they had the Pace boxes in stock. I highly recommend the upgrade as the Pace 550 is far superior to the SA3100HD.

SInce I've installed my Pioneer STB, the pagedown function (in S-Video SD) will very often yield one "extra" page-down after I release the button. This happens on all three of my remotes.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks QMAN71,

Do you think it'll be as simple as walking in there with my current box and exchanging it? Any additional fees involved?

-Pete

On the Pioneer, there are inputs for video and audio. The only manual I was given was for the SA box which describes the use of the pass-through. When I tried this with the Pioneer it did not work at all. Anyone have any experience with this?.....or know where I can get a *real* manual for the Pioneer? (PDF preferred). TW says that the manual is not available....just the installation guide.

Originally posted by peter_moy13
Thanks QMAN71,

Do you think it'll be as simple as walking in there with my current box and exchanging it? Any additional fees involved?

-Pete

In Queens, I just brought back my Pioneer and said I was having problems with it. They asked if I wanted the same one, and I said "sure". I could have changed for the SA at no charge.

Dunno if this helps, but.......

Anyone know if TWC and Cablevision reached a deal for MSG yet? If so does it include MSGHD being added to our lineup?

Originally posted by Manatus

(2) Having a TV that doesn't accept a 720p signal is a limitation but not necessarily a major problem. I haven't used a SA3250, but I'm pretty sure that it allows the user to configure it to output all possible signal formats, not just "720p or 1080i." The STB will convert all signals that it receives to the specified output format(s). Since every format conversion degrades the signal, having a STB upscale a 720p signal to 1080i (because a particular plasma can't handle 720p) only to have the TV rescale it to 768p (a plasma's native resolution) is an especially bad idea.



Actually if you are using DVI on the SA3250, and you select both 720p and 1080i as supported formats, the box only outputs one of them - I think it's 1080i, but I can't remember (this is different from the Pioneer which lets you pass both 720p and 1080i over DVI). Over component, I'm pretty sure you can select both and it does a true pass through.

Jet190rs - if your display won't be able to accept 720p then this added benefit of the Pioneer is moot for you - you will output 1080i over DVI on both boxes. However, the Pioneer does have the benefit of using black side bars for 4:3 channels as opposed to the gray ones on the 3250. As mentioned earlier, the downside to the Pioneer is that many people have reported random rebooting of the STB when connecting the Pioneer with DVI. Also if you try to use the IPG or get channel info on a 720p output channel the box goes haywire and needs to be unplugged to reboot - again this won't affect you since you won't be outputting 720p. So the Pioneer and the SA3250 should be more or less identical to you (sidebars vs. rebooting) - only other consideration is the smaller footprint of the 3250 (not a big deal).

Originally posted by peter_moy13
Thanks QMAN71,

Do you think it'll be as simple as walking in there with my current box and exchanging it? Any additional fees involved?

-Pete
I've swapped out boxes a few times before, no questions asked. And no additional fees.

Originally posted by vinnyv07
Hello all...I was just wondering if anyone has an updated list of all the HD ch's that can be picked up with a QAM receiver with TWC. Thanks

I'll post an update when I get home...

Minor problem with the SA8000. When I'm done fast forwarding I press Exit to get rid of the time thingy. Almost every time I do it goes away for a split second and pops back up. How I can I get rid of it only pressing Exit once?

Originally posted by jet190rs
I might get a Panasonic TH-42PD25U plasma, which can't accept a 720p signal (except from a computer vga input). Is this gonna be a problem?
You might want to check and confirm that your Panasonic is cabable of displaying HD. That may be the ED unit if I read my codes correctly.

Yes I'm getting the 42" EDTV plasma, with native resolution of 480.

What I'm concerned about is the fact that Panasonic consumer plasmas (no matter what size/resolution) cannot accept a 720p signal.

So basically you're telling me that I'll just make the cable box send 1080i all the time?


Rich

Originally posted by jet190rs
Yes I'm getting the 42" EDTV plasma, with native resolution of 480.

What I'm concerned about is the fact that Panasonic consumer plasmas (no matter what size/resolution) cannot accept a 720p signal.

So basically you're telling me that I'll just make the cable box send 1080i all the time?


Rich

Yes if you're using the cable box.

I have a direct hook-up and It accepts both formats. Works great! And all for only $12 a month!

Originally posted by jet190rs
Yes I'm getting the 42" EDTV plasma, with native resolution of 480.



In that case, why do you wish to use a HDTV STB box with it instead of a SD Digital box? While a HDTV box would give you access to a very few channels not available with a SD box, feeding an EDTV a 1080i signal (instead of one in 480i or 480p) is guaranteed to degrade PQ. And while one or more HDTV boxes available from TWCNYC could rescale a 480i signal to 480p (your set's native resolution), it's likely that the TV has a better scaler than any of the boxes.

Because SD digital cable looks like crap and the HD cable box is no additional charge. Why would I stick with SD cable box when I have an EDTV plasma?

Look, I'm a little lost on this whole resolution scaling performed by the cable box. All I know is, CBS and NBC broadcast in 1080i while Fox and ESPN broadcast in 720p. So ideally, a HDTV set should be able to show both resolutions so that when I watch NBC in HD my TV shows all 1080 interlaced lines and when I watch ESPN in HD my TV shows all 720 progessive lines. So I assume the cable box just passes through whatever the channels are broadcasting, whether its 1080i or 720p.

Too bad I can't afford a TV that does that (if there are any). So I'm getting an EDTV plasma that scales whatever signal it receives to 480p. Typically the EDTV plasmas on the market can accept all resolutions (480i/p, 720p or 1080i). For example, if I get a Samsung EDTV plasma, I assume I wouldn't even care what the cable box sends because it can accept anything and will convert it to 480p. The weird thing about all Panasonic consumer plasmas (which are supposed to be one of the best and most popular plasmas) is that they cannot accept 720p.

Basically my confusion is that I assume the cable box should send 1080i when I watch NBC HD. But as soon as I change the channel to ESPN HD, it should send 720p. And as soon as I switch channels to MTV SD, the cable box should send 480i. So the cable box should not scale anything. From what I've been reading though, it doesn't sound like the cable box works this way and that the cable box has to be set to send one resolution so you have to make a decision on which resolution you want. It cannot switch automatically?

If my plasma can't accept 720p, then its an easy decision, I'll make the cable box send 1080i when I watch HDTV and my plasma converts it to 480p.

So what am I missing?

Thanks,
Rich

[i]

So what am I missing?
[/B]

What you're missing, I guess, is that the highest resolution your TV can display is 480 (p), and that feeding it a HD signal will actually decrease its picture quality. The best possible signal to use is 480i from a standard digital box. Putting jet fuel instead of gasoline in a lawn mower doesn't make it run any better. Of course, you could take what you're spending on that EDTV plasma and buy a HDTV for a lot less if you opted for another display technology.

Originally posted by Manatus
What you're missing, I guess, is that the highest resolution your TV can display is 480 (p), and that feeding it a HD signal will actually decrease its picture quality. The best possible signal to use is 480i from a standard digital box. Putting jet fuel instead of gasoline in a lawn mower doesn't make it run any better. Of course, you could take what you're spending on that EDTV plasma and buy a HDTV for a lot less if you opted for another display technology.

Completely disagree. Feeding a 1080i signal will look amazing. It will look much better than SD. Many people have ED plasmas and HD looks incredible on it.

Manatus - saying that a 480i signal will look better is just plain wrong.

Originally posted by Manatus
What you're missing, I guess, is that the highest resolution your TV can display is 480 (p), and that feeding it a HD signal will actually decrease its picture quality. The best possible signal to use is 480i from a standard digital box. Putting jet fuel instead of gasoline in a lawn mower doesn't make it run any better. Of course, you could take what you're spending on that EDTV plasma and buy a HDTV for a lot less if you opted for another display technology.

I have the same plasma and it looks amazing with HD material. In fact at 9 feet away you won't be able to tell the difference AT ALL between a true HD plasma and an ED plasma. I say, save yourself the $1500.

jet190rs: If you really want to use your cable box I would suggest using a splitter to directly hook up a separate cable to antenna "a". You will then be able to receive both 720p and 1080i because the built in HD tuner can display both. When you want to watch HD, just tune to antenna "a".

The Channels are as follows:

1-4 NBC (use to be 104-1)
1-5 Fox (use to be 103-2)
104-2 ABC
105-1 CBS
105-2 PBS
105-3 PBS Kids
93-2 INHD2
93-1 INHD
87-2 TNT
87-1 Discovery
86-3 ESPN
86-2 HD Net
86-1 HD Net


That's all the channels I've been able to find so far, anyone else have any to add???

Sorry, I disagree with you Manatus. I was at Harvey and Stereo Exchange in Manhattan comparing 42" EDTV and 42" HDTV Fujitsu plasmas side by side. Both stores have a TWC HD feed so I was watching Discovery channel HD connected through component inputs and I was very hard presssed to tell the difference between the 2 plasmas. So I'm pretty confident in my choice of an EDTV plasma at this point.

Originally posted by jcc
I have the same plasma and it looks amazing with HD material. In fact at 9 feet away you won't be able to tell the difference AT ALL between a true HD plasma and an ED plasma. I say, save yourself the $1500.

jet190rs: If you really want to use your cable box I would suggest using a splitter to directly hook up a separate cable to antenna "a". You will then be able to receive both 720p and 1080i because the built in HD tuner can display both. When you want to watch HD, just tune to antenna "a".

The Channels are as follows:

1-4 NBC (use to be 104-1)
1-5 Fox (use to be 103-2)
104-2 ABC
105-1 CBS
105-2 PBS
105-3 PBS Kids
93-2 INHD2
93-1 INHD
87-2 TNT
87-1 Discovery
86-3 ESPN
86-2 HD Net
86-1 HD Net


That's all the channels I've been able to find so far, anyone else have any to add???

The new HD tier channels are currently being transmitted "in the clear"/unencrypted, but will this be the case after the free trial period ends in December? I doubt it, so the list of "free" HD channels listed above can be misleading.

Happy Holidays.....JL

Clearly EDTV display formats can't resolve finer HDTV details. There's lots of back and forth on this is various forums. A good explanation of what folks are seeing when HD is fed onto EDTV displays, IMO, is in Mark Schubin's recent Videography article (http://www.uemedia.net/CPC/videography/article_10488.shtml), most concisely in the final paragraphs. The downscaling of HD for EDTV resolutions improves the contrast of details that can be resolved on EDTVs (steepening the modulation-transfer-function curve, or providing more square area under the curve). He writes:
HDTV cameras offer a higher curve than do their standard-definition counterparts. The added sharpness provided by the higher curve is visible to viewers of an HDTV screen of almost any size at almost any viewing distance. It’s also visible on a standard definition TV set. It’s visible even on a set fed from a VHS recording.
But if you want both this added 'sharpness' and the resolvable detail (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2118466#post2118466) possible with HDTV you need a HD display, and must be close enough to resolve the finer HD details. (And just to NYC-TWC-ize this: Suspect this 'sharpness' effect helps mask the very poor levels of resolvable detail being delivered by 8000HD converters. Using the HDNet 1080i test patterns, my 8000HD only provides about 890 lines (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4664241#post4664241) maximum, while my 3100HD delivers about 1290 lines of resolvable horizontal detail, and a RCN Cable converter ~1335 lines.) -- John

Originally posted by SRFast
The new HD tier channels are currently being transmitted "in the clear"/unencrypted, but will this be the case after the free trial period ends in December? I doubt it, so the list of "free" HD channels listed above can be misleading.

Happy Holidays.....JL

You're probably right, however, I will still have abc,cbs,nbc,pbs,tnt, and discovery. That's enough for me for now. Especially when I pay only $12 a month for cable service. How much do you pay?

Originally posted by John Mason
Clearly EDTV display formats can't resolve finer HDTV details. There's lots of back and forth on this is various forums. A good explanation of what folks are seeing when HD is fed onto EDTV displays, IMO, is in Mark Schubin's recent Videography article (http://www.uemedia.net/CPC/videography/article_10488.shtml), most concisely in the final paragraphs. The downscaling of HD for EDTV resolutions improves the contrast of details that can be resolved on EDTVs (steepening the modulation-transfer-function curve, or providing more square area under the curve). He writes:

But if you want both this added 'sharpness' and the resolvable detail (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2118466#post2118466) possible with HDTV you need a HD display, and must be close enough to resolve the finer HD details. (And just to NYC-TWC-ize this: Suspect this 'sharpness' effect helps mask the very poor levels of resolvable detail being delivered by 8000HD converters. Using the HDNet 1080i test patterns, my 8000HD only provides about 890 lines (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4664241#post4664241) maximum, while my 3100HD delivers about 1290 lines of resolvable horizontal detail, and a RCN Cable converter ~1335 lines.) -- John

Thanks for the technical explaination John but you still haven't answered my main point which is how many of us can SEE the difference from 8 feet away?

There are audiophiles who'll spend $10,000 on a pair of speaker cables and can give you all sorts of mumble jumbo reasons as to why it's better but 99.9999% of the people on this planet including myself will NOT be able to tell the difference between those cables and a "reasonably" priced $500 speaker cable. So what my point?

ED = HD plasma at 8 to 9 plus feet away....

Wow. I bought my speakers for less than you bought your reasonably priced cables.
JCC let me ask you... Were the $500 ones platinum? The $10k rolled on the belly of virgins?:D

Anyone notice that when you change channels it doesn't take as long for the picture to come up?

It seems alot faster now as oppose to before where as it took a few seconds.

I have the DVR cable box.

BR

Originally posted by jcc
Thanks for the technical explaination John but you still haven't answered my main point which is how many of us can SEE the difference from 8 feet away?
Downscaling HDTV to SD enhances the contrast , needed to see all detail, so what remains appears sharper even from a distance, as Schubin points out in the linked article.

Edit: Saying that you can sit far enough back from a HDTV display so that images look like those from an EDTV display seems obvious. Guess we begin understanding how detail diminishes with distance as infants. But the basic advantage of HDTV is being able to sit closer to a display, enjoying a wider, more-realistic, more-detailed image without noticing scan/row lines. -- John

Originally posted by jcc
You're probably right, however, I will still have abc,cbs,nbc,pbs,tnt, and discovery. That's enough for me for now. Especially when I pay only $12 a month for cable service. How much do you pay?

jcc: I can assure you I pay a lot more for cable service than you do and just like you, I get what I pay for. ;)

Regards.....JL

Hello to all. I have my plasma arriving tomorrow and will be swapping out my box for a new one. I was wondering if anyone can help me regarding what I have read;

1) I live in Chelsea, does one favor the 23 or 28th street shop, presumably the closest two to me.

2) What is the most reliable hd dvr box they are currently offering? I have heard nightmare stories regarding the sa8000. Are they any others they offer? is the pioneer 3250 hd available?

3) I have been told but want to make sure that the dvi blade is not enabled as yet. This is still the case, yes?

I appreciate your help. Thanks.

Dino in NYC

Originally posted by dizwip
Hello to all. I have my plasma arriving tomorrow and will be swapping out my box for a new one. I was wondering if anyone can help me regarding what I have read;

1) I live in Chelsea, does one favor the 23 or 28th street shop, presumably the closest two to me.

2) What is the most reliable hd dvr box they are currently offering? I have heard nightmare stories regarding the sa8000. Are they any others they offer? is the pioneer 3250 hd available?

3) I have been told but want to make sure that the dvi blade is not enabled as yet. This is still the case, yes?

I appreciate your help. Thanks.

Big Dave in NYC

Big Dave --

As far as I know, there is no TWCNYC 28th Street "shop" -- only the East 23rd Street madhouse.

TWCNYC has several HD STBs but only one HD-DVR, the SA8000HD, which has its problems, none of which, I think, are bad enough to give anyone not already mentally-unsettled nightmares.

I have no idea what a "dvi blade" is. Two of TWCNYC's HD STBs (the SA3250HD and the Pioneer 3510HD) have working DVI outputs. The DVI port on the SA8000HD DVR is not now enabled.

Good luck . . .

Big Dave,

The 3250HD is from Scientific Atlanta. The Pioneer 3510HD was made 3 years ago and is an older model. Both the 3250HD and 3510HD offers a DVI output option. To get one, you need to specify this to your TWC representative.

I have had the 3250HD since May of this year and it also has an active firewire output (1394 or firebus, as some call it). You will need a HDTV with DVI inputs for the setup to work. The 3250HD also has working component outputs as well as S-Video. So the 3250HD is pretty comprehensive and has worked for me for 7 months.

With the firwire output, I can record in 1080i with the JVC D-VHS recorders. The tapes are far better than any DVD; however great the DVD is. This is not an over generalization.

Sometimes, the combination of the HDTV, the 3250HD, and the D-VHS recorders need to be powered down, rebooted, and reset for certain digital errors to be cleared. I don't know why this is, but as soon as you see horizontal motion artifacts, digital pops on the HDTV, it's time to reset everything.

This is a problem with the 3250HD setup. But this is it. Compared with the 8000HD, the 3250HD is more robust, to answer your question.

Paul




Originally posted by dizwip
Hello to all. I have my plasma arriving tomorrow and will be swapping out my box for a new one. I was wondering if anyone can help me regarding what I have read;

1) I live in Chelsea, does one favor the 23 or 28th street shop, presumably the closest two to me.

2) What is the most reliable hd dvr box they are currently offering? I have heard nightmare stories regarding the sa8000. Are they any others they offer? is the pioneer 3250 hd available?

3) I have been told but want to make sure that the dvi blade is not enabled as yet. This is still the case, yes?

I appreciate your help. Thanks.

Big Dave in NYC

Thanks QMAN71!,

I exchanged my 3-day old SA 3100HD box for the Pace550 box today at the Richmond Ave. service center. I can't believe how crowded that place gets even at 3PM!

I'm very happy with the box and all the additional connectors and setup options available (1080i, 720p, etc). The most useful feature so far is the ability to show the channel guide while viewing a HD channel.

According to the service guy, the DVI connector should be enabled on this box. Unfortunately I don't have the hardware I need to use this yet on the display end.

The exchange was very easy to do and I was in and out in 15 minutes (13 of which was waiting on line).

So if any of you are in Staten Island and would like a more full featured box w/o going to a DVR, this is definitely a must do upgrade.

-Pete
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by peter_moy13
Alright, looks like I answered my own question after some research...

The SA3100HD is an ancient box that needs to be upgraded. Does anyone on Staten Island know if they still have Pace 550's available for exhange at the Richmond Ave. service center?

The presence of bars with SD material is not that big a deal, I can switch to the s-video input, but if there is a better alternative w/o going the DVR route. Damn, here I have the box and HD for less than 12 hrs and I'm looking to upgrade already!

Thanks!
-Pete
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I was at the Richmond Ave. service center on Friday and they had the Pace boxes in stock. I highly recommend the upgrade as the Pace 550 is far superior to the SA3100HD.

I just bought one of those 27" Hi-Def LCD TVs today.

I actually have a TWC rep coming out tomorrow to check out my 8000HD issues.

What are the odds I can offer him some cash (maybe a $20 perhaps) to run a new cable line into one of my bedrooms that doesn't currently have cable? If he does this... then I can do a self-install and pick up an additional Hi-Def box. :)

If he doesn't do this tomorrow.... i have to wait like two weeks for a saturday appointment. Blah.

peter_moy13,
The DVI is active on the Pace 550, I'm currently using it with my TV (and hopefully soon with a Sanyo Z2 projector I plan on purchasing).

Q

While this may be true, I think there is a significant difference between HDTV and audiophile "snobbery" in that increased TV resoultion can be measured, analyzed and observed (if everything is set up right ant the distance is small enough). In the audio business, although higher bandwidths and dynamic ranges are an issue, much of the attention is to "physical effects" that cannot be measured or properly explained by anyone with a physics education - they are only to be observed by those "in the know"

with regards
K

(and more than slightly jealous of the progress you US guys have on HDTV content)

Originally posted by jcc
Thanks for the technical explaination John but you still haven't answered my main point which is how many of us can SEE the difference from 8 feet away?

There are audiophiles who'll spend $10,000 on a pair of speaker cables and can give you all sorts of mumble jumbo reasons as to why it's better but 99.9999% of the people on this planet including myself will NOT be able to tell the difference between those cables and a "reasonably" priced $500 speaker cable. So what my point?

ED = HD plasma at 8 to 9 plus feet away....

Is my SA3250 messed up because all the channels including HD channels output only 720 x 480 on every channel while using my DVI connection on my samsung HLN4365W1. Also for some reason whenever I have DVI plugged in, the component cables does not work, the tv displays looking for signal.

Just a quick note for everyone.

I was able to sucessfully pick up a Pioneer 3510HD at the Woodside location today to install cable in an additional room in my apartment. I already had HD-DVR plus RR so this is a no-charge self install for me.

So whoever said in the past that TWC was no longer handing out Pioneer boxes... might just have to get the right "rep" at the location to give you one.

I simply asked nicely for one... praising that I had one previously and it is FAR superior in quality over anything SA offers. Got one no problem.

It's either or on the DVI / Component Video. But firewire is active all the time.

There is a way to have the 3250HD scale to fill screen for you. Go to "settings" on your TWC remote.

Paul


Originally posted by cap_167
Is my SA3250 messed up because all the channels including HD channels output only 720 x 480 on every channel while using my DVI connection on my samsung HLN4365W1. Also for some reason whenever I have DVI plugged in, the component cables does not work, the tv displays looking for signal.

Anyone know if there's a HD UPN channel? If so, what channel is it on? Thanks!

Originally posted by DjPiLL
I simply asked nicely for one... praising that I had one previously and it is FAR superior in quality over anything SA offers. Got one no problem.


Go figure the 3510HD I just picked up locks up on me whenever I go to the channel guide while I am watching a Hi-Def program using DVI. I think it has to do with the cable box trying to display the Hi-Def show in the little window.

Either that or its some sort of incompatibility with my new LCD. I am just gonna swap it for the 3250HD on Monday so I avoid any issues.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Go figure the 3510HD I just picked up locks up on me whenever I go to the channel guide while I am watching a Hi-Def program using DVI. I think it has to do with the cable box trying to display the Hi-Def show in the little window.

I, too have a 3510. It only "locks up" on HD channels that output in 720p. Take a look and see if you are set to output *only* 720p That just might be the problem.

I a a little conflicted now as to whether I should keep the Pioneer or switch to the SA.

I guess what I really am waiting for is the 8300!!!

(e)

Just got the SA8000 and am very happy to finally have a DVR, especially an HD one. However, the installer did not leave me any kind of instruction manual and I have a few questions. Is there a manual online?

My Qs are:-

1) How do you switch bet S-video and Component output? Rt now all I have is component. I want to see if the SD channels look better via S-video.

2) How do you view future recordings?

thanks

It appears INHD (721) and INHD2 (722) are off the air. I haven't been able to get a signal since I turned the set on at 05:45 AM Sunday morning. All the other channels are OK. I checked both the CC and SA 8100HD and neither work, so it is not a hardware problem. Anyone else?

With the HD tier free preview coming to an end, I wonder how many subscribers will sign up for the service. I haven't decided yet.

Regards....JL

Originally posted by ensyed
Just got the SA8000 and am very happy to finally have a DVR, especially an HD one. However, the installer did not leave me any kind of instruction manual and I have a few questions. Is there a manual online?

My Qs are:-

1) How do you switch bet S-video and Component output? Rt now all I have is component. I want to see if the SD channels look better via S-video.

2) How do you view future recordings?

thanks

AFAIK, there are no on-line manuals for the 8000HD running the Passport Echo operating system (which is what's used by TWCNYC). If I understand your second question, just press the LIST key on the remote and then the blue "B" key. All video outputs on the 8000HD except component are disabled unless the box is downshifted to "SD-Mode." Instructions about how to do that can be found in the main 8000HD-Passport thread: HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=453804).

Originally posted by SRFast
It appears INHD (721) and INHD2 (722) are off the air. I haven't been able to get a signal since I turned the set on at 05:45 AM Sunday morning. All the other channels are OK. I checked both the CC and SA 8100HD and neither work, so it is not a hardware problem. Anyone else?

See:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=34
--John

Originally posted by jcc
Anyone know if there's a HD UPN channel? If so, what channel is it on? Thanks!

no UPN digital broadcast at this time. unless you count the Fox OTA subchannel(5.2). WWOR appears to have a dig. ch. assigned(38) but i think we'll have to wait for the combiner. i remember seeing on this thread that TWC has test chs. for WB & UPN HD but no telling when they'll be active.


jim

Originally posted by SRFast
It appears INHD (721) and INHD2 (722) are off the air. I haven't been able to get a signal since I turned the set on at 05:45 AM Sunday morning. All the other channels are OK. I checked both the CC and SA 8100HD and neither work, so it is not a hardware problem. Anyone else?

With the HD tier free preview coming to an end, I wonder how many subscribers will sign up for the service. I haven't decided yet.

Regards....JL

I have the same problem here in North Jersey{Cablevision}..no InHD signal..what is going on?? as of 12:48pm , Sunday.

Originally posted by emauss
I, too have a 3510. It only "locks up" on HD channels that output in 720p. Take a look and see if you are set to output *only* 720p That just might be the problem.

I a a little conflicted now as to whether I should keep the Pioneer or switch to the SA.

I guess what I really am waiting for is the 8300!!!

(e)


Where do I check this? Is there a special menu where I get this setting? I dont see it in the normal passport menu like the 8000HD has.

Originally posted by HDntheCity
no UPN digital broadcast at this time. unless you count the Fox OTA subchannel(5.2). WWOR appears to have a dig. ch. assigned(38) but i think we'll have to wait for the combiner. i remember seeing on this thread that TWC has test chs. for WB & UPN HD but no telling when they'll be active.
jim


Thanks.

I have Fox HD but I just couldn't find UPN and I don't know why they would omit this particular channel when they have all other OTA channels.

The Fox HD is 1-5 by the way if you're looking. That's through the HD tuner on my plasma NOT the cable box.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Where do I check this? Is there a special menu where I get this setting? I dont see it in the normal passport menu like the 8000HD has.

If you are using DVI on the 3510, the Output Format option in the settings menu is not available (if you are using component, it is). It's annoying, but the workaround is to unhook DVI temporarily, hook up component and then hit "Settings" and "A" for "More Settings". Look for the output format option. The 3510 can pass all resolutions (other than 480i) over DVI. So you are probably best off choosing 480p, 720p and 1080i. Then unhook component and rehook DVI. As Eric pointed out, the freezing issue only happens on 720p channels.

Originally posted by jcc
Thanks.

I have Fox HD but I just couldn't find UPN and I don't know why they would omit this particular channel when they have all other OTA channels.

The Fox HD is 1-5 by the way if you're looking. That's through the HD tuner on my plasma NOT the cable box.

I think you probably mean 5-1 for Fox-HD OTA. 5.2 (UPN-SD) isn't the only DTV SD channel not carried by TWCNYC. My antenna also pulls in 7-2 (WABC), 31-1 (WPXN), 41-1 (WXTV) and 68-1 (WFUT). And, of course, TWCNYC is still not carrying WPIX-HD (11-1 and 11-2).

Originally posted by Manatus
I think you probably mean 5-1 for Fox-HD OTA. 5.2 (UPN-SD) isn't the only DTV SD channel not carried by TWCNYC. My antenna also pulls in 7-2 (WABC), 31-1 (WPXN), 41-1 (WXTV) and 68-1 (WFUT). And, of course, TWCNYC is still not carrying WPIX-HD (11-1 and 11-2).

Humm...weird! I plug the TWC cable directly into my plasma's built in HD tuner and the channel line up on mine is:

1-4 NBC (use to be 104-1)
1-5 Fox (use to be 103-2)
104-2 ABC
105-1 CBS
105-2 PBS
105-3 PBS Kids
93-2 INHD2
93-1 INHD
87-2 TNT
87-1 Discovery
86-3 ESPN
86-2 HD Net
86-1 HD Net

That didn't work. The box still locks up. I'll just swap it for a 3250HD. That box doesn't suffer these issues right?

Originally posted by John Mason
See:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=34
--John

John:
Thanks for the response, but which of the threads on the attached link explains the INHD/2 problem?

Regards....JL

Originally posted by DjPiLL
That didn't work. The box still locks up. I'll just swap it for a 3250HD. That box doesn't suffer these issues right?

My 3250 hasn't experienced any lockups over DVI. It does have annoying gray sidebars though.

Originally posted by jcc
Humm...weird! I plug the TWC cable directly into my plasma's built in HD tuner and the channel line up on mine is:

1-4 NBC (use to be 104-1)
1-5 Fox (use to be 103-2)
104-2 ABC
105-1 CBS
105-2 PBS
105-3 PBS Kids
93-2 INHD2
93-1 INHD
87-2 TNT
87-1 Discovery
86-3 ESPN
86-2 HD Net
86-1 HD Net

Not "weird" at all. My reference to "my antenna" should be read literally:

http://tinypic.com/oz91z

Originally posted by jcc
Humm...weird! I plug the TWC cable directly into my plasma's built in HD tuner and the channel line up on mine is:

1-4 NBC (use to be 104-1)
1-5 Fox (use to be 103-2)
104-2 ABC
105-1 CBS
105-2 PBS
105-3 PBS Kids
93-2 INHD2
93-1 INHD
87-2 TNT
87-1 Discovery
86-3 ESPN
86-2 HD Net
86-1 HD Net

These are the channel #s picked up by your ATSC tuner from the TWC feed. They WILL NOT match any of the OTA HD channels listed by Manatus or TWC HD STB converters or CC (channels 701-725). This is one of the quirks you deal with when you connnect a cable feed directly to a built in tuner.

Regards....JL

Originally posted by Manatus
Not "weird" at all. My reference to "my antenna" should be read literally:

http://tinypic.com/oz91z

oh right, I thought this was a TWC thread...:p

Originally posted by EricScott
My 3250 hasn't experienced any lockups over DVI. It does have annoying gray sidebars though.


I heard about the annoying grey sidebars. When do you see these? Under what circumstances?

I hate sidebars with a passion.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
I heard about the annoying grey sidebars. When do you see these? Under what circumstances?

I hate sidebars with a passion.

If you have the box set to 4:3 Sidebar mode (i.e. - not stretch and not zoom), it inserts gray sidebars for all 4:3 channels. HD channels are unaffected since 4:3 shows on HD channels have the sidebars inserted by the broadcaster.

So the only difference is you get grey sidebars instead of black ones?

On this Pioneer box... I am able to tune into the 700 series channels using just the basic composite video port. Are you able to do this on the 3250HD? I don't think this is possible on the older 3100HD.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
So the only difference is you get grey sidebars instead of black ones?

On this Pioneer box... I am able to tune into the 700 series channels using just the basic composite video port. Are you able to do this on the 3250HD? I don't think this is possible on the older 3100HD.

Yes - you can access all channels on the 3250 with composite. I have a 3250HD in the bedroom that is hooked up with composite. The small footprint is really nice - fits right on top of my TV.

The other "negative" of the 3250 vs. the Pioneer is that you cannot pass 720p and 1080i at the same time over DVI. You have to choose one or the other in the Output Format setting. The Pioneer lets you choose both formats so you can pass all HD channels as is to your display.

Other than that and the gray bars - no negatives that I've discovered.

So just to clarify... black bars are just "open space" right? Not something thats inserted by the cable box? The grey ones are inserted by the cable box right?

I guess... my question being... when I have it hooked up via composite... I have it run into my LCD TV that has PIP enabled.

Right now when I put the cable picture into a PIP... it comes out nice... no side bars or anything (even for the HD channels - unless they are grey sidebars).

I am thinking if I go with the 3250HD... i will get grey sidebars on all my channels that aren't HD. Not sure.

I just purchased an HDTV and am planning to swap my old cable box for an HD one ASAP.

I called TWC and was told that the only available HD DVR is the 8000, but I'm confused by posts here and elsewhere about whether the 8300 is actually available in Manhattan.

If it is, do you need to do anything special to get one, or can I just bring my old box to 23rd St. for a swap?

If not, is there any definitive information on when it will be available? The numerous negative posts about the 8000 have left me worried that I'm asking for trouble with that box (but I need the HD DVR function).

Thanks.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
So just to clarify... black bars are just "open space" right? Not something thats inserted by the cable box? The grey ones are inserted by the cable box right?

I guess... my question being... when I have it hooked up via composite... I have it run into my LCD TV that has PIP enabled.

Right now when I put the cable picture into a PIP... it comes out nice... no side bars or anything (even for the HD channels - unless they are grey sidebars).

I am thinking if I go with the 3250HD... i will get grey sidebars on all my channels that aren't HD. Not sure.

The gray bars that the 3250 inserts should be the exact same as the black bars the Pioneer inserts (other than the color of course). The cable box literally inserts the sidebars when you are watching 4:3 channels and you have the box set to "4:3 Sidebar" in the Aspect Ratio section of the Options on the box. If you hate sidebars, I would imagine you have the box set to Stretch 4:3, in which case youw ill never see any sidebars on 4:3 channels over component or DVI (don't know how it will appear over composite - see PIP discussion below). HD channels are not affected by these settings b/c by definition they are 16:9 and any bars you see are actually inserted by the broadcaster.

Can't comment on how the PIP will look b/c that's more a function of the TV than anything else. For example, I run S-Video (in addition to DVI) out of the 3250 to my Samsung DLP for PIP as well. Basically the 3250 in my living room serves two purposes - 1) HQ HD over DVI; 2) Better more user friendly PIP control over S-Video. I also have an 8000HD in the living room connected via component for most normal viewing. The Samsung shows PIP in a 16:9 window and no matter how I have the STB set, it inserts gray bars somewhere - either the sides or the top and bottom. For example I mostly use PIP for sports. So I tune both my 3250 and my 8000HD to HD sports programming (tough to tune one box and not the other since they are both in the same room). The 8000HD comes in the main window over component, while the 3250 comes in the PIP window over S-Video. That HD channel on the 3250 has gray bars on the top and bottom IIRC. Not sure how it looks on 4:3 channels b/c frankly I've never tried it.

All TVs handle PIP differently though. Can't imagine that the Pioneer vs. the 3250 would be any different in this regard though. They have identical setup options/menus. I know this sounds confusing but the only way to really know for sure is to try it out.

Originally posted by NYC2004
I just purchased an HDTV and am planning to swap my old cable box for an HD one ASAP.

I called TWC and was told that the only available HD DVR is the 8000, but I'm confused by posts here and elsewhere about whether the 8300 is actually available in Manhattan.

If it is, do you need to do anything special to get one, or can I just bring my old box to 23rd St. for a swap?

If not, is there any definitive information on when it will be available? The numerous negative posts about the 8000 have left me worried that I'm asking for trouble with that box (but I need the HD DVR function).

Thanks.

Only the 8000HD is now available, and anything you hear about if and when the 8300HD will be offered here is just guesswork. I've had my 8000HD since the week they were first available and have had no serious problems with it (except for the audio break-up and pixelation problems that have now largely disappeared, and, of course, its degraded resolution).

Just officially signed up for HDXtra. Initially I forgot to mention that I had an HD DVR and should get the combo deal of $15 / month. Realized as soon as I hung up and called back - apparently they automatically took care of this. Still can't hurt to verify when you call, but if you already have an HD DVR, the incremental cost is just over $6 / mo for the extra HD channels - not too bad.

Can someone explain the story with FOX on TWC? According to the TWC website, Fox is provided in widescreen but not HD.

But I've seen posts from people talking about watching sports on FOX in HD. Was this OTA?

If it's not available yet in HD, any word on when? Why aren't all local channels that have at least some HD programming carried by TWC? Is this a bandwith issue?

Thanks.

Originally posted by NYC2004
Can someone explain the story with FOX on TWC? According to the TWC website, Fox is provided in widescreen but not HD.

But I've seen posts from people talking about watching sports on FOX in HD. Was this OTA?

If it's not available yet in HD, any word on when? Why aren't all local channels that have at least some HD programming carried by TWC? Is this a bandwith issue?

Thanks.

Fox-HD has been carried by TWCNYC since earlier this year. The web site is almost never updated and can't be relied upon as a source of accurate information. I believe that the only local station with HD content not carried by TWCNYC is WPIX (though it was last year). Probably more a question of the lack of a contractual agreement than bandwidth.

Originally posted by Manatus
Fox-HD has been carried by TWCNYC since earlier this year. The web site is almost never updated and can't be relied upon as a source of accurate information. I believe that the only local station with HD content not carried by TWCNYC is WPIX (though it was last year). Probably more a question of the lack of a contractual agreement than bandwidth.

Don't forget UPN 9 which is also NOT carried by TWC. I've been dying to see Enterprise in HD but sadly, no signal.:(

Originally posted by jcc
Don't forget UPN 9 which is also NOT carried by TWC. I've been dying to see Enterprise in HD but sadly, no signal.:(

I've never watched UPN 9, but I didn't think it was broadcasting in HD. On my OTA receiver, at least, it comes in as an SD (but DD 5.1) signal on Channel 5.2.

Originally posted by jcc
Thanks for the technical explaination John but you still haven't answered my main point which is how many of us can SEE the difference from 8 feet away?

There are audiophiles who'll spend $10,000 on a pair of speaker cables and can give you all sorts of mumble jumbo reasons as to why it's better but 99.9999% of the people on this planet including myself will NOT be able to tell the difference between those cables and a "reasonably" priced $500 speaker cable. So what my point?

ED = HD plasma at 8 to 9 plus feet away.... NOT EVEN CLOSE, ED=ED, HD=HD, that's why ED panels cost HALF the price of HD panels, there is a reason for that, and you CAN tell the difference, even at 10 feet, so please spare us with this nonsense.

Originally posted by Manatus
I've never watched UPN 9, but I didn't think it was broadcasting in HD. On my OTA receiver, at least, it comes in as an SD (but DD 5.1) signal on Channel 5.2.

Manatus, or whoever else uses both,

What’s your opinion regarding OTA compared with TW?
How does the picture quality and audio compare?
Any drop outs?
Does the weather make a difference on reception?
Is it user friendly?
On a station by station comparison, is one better than the other?

TIA,

Larry

I'm in Forest Hills, a few miles from you.

OTA is great if:
1) You have a good LOS to the transmitters
2) A good antenna
3) Weather has little to do with it if 1 & 2 are good

TW is great of:
1) You want premium HDTV channels like HBO and SHO
2) Have bad LOS with transmitters
3) Can't get your antenna to receive HDTV
4) You want to record HDTV with a PC or a D-VHS recorder


I've had TW HDTV since 1999 and can't complain. OTA gets me CBS, ABC, and NBC. I am on the top floor of a 7 storied bldg and have direct LOS with the top of the Empire State building, but reception off OTA is limited to these 3 for HD.

Paul





Originally posted by LL3HD
Manatus, or whoever else uses both,

What’s your opinion regarding OTA compared with TW?
How does the picture quality and audio compare?
Any drop outs?
Does the weather make a difference on reception?
Is it user friendly?
On a station by station comparison, is one better than the other?

TIA,

Larry

PLEASE HELP ME WITH MY 8000HD

Ok guys, two things happened:
1) I'm about a week away from finishing my renovation which will include a HT
2) My 3100HD just died a horrible death

So I went to 23rd Street and quickly swapped out the 3100HD for an 8000HD.

Here's where the fun begins. The TV I'm using for now (a widescreen Samsung LCD RPTV) is an ED, not HD set [note that the display in my HT will be an HD projector]. The Samsung has S, composite, and component inputs. However the component input can accept 480p only. So my intent - until my theater is ready - was to use the box in SD mode with either S or composite, or even component if I could get the 8000HD to output only 480p.

So I follow the instructions to set the box to SD mode. Using the S connection, I get no picture whatsoever on the S input of the TV. Pushing the Guide and Info buttons results in nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

Using the composite connection, I get some kind of digital video noise on screen - a black background with green floating blocks. Again, pushing the Guide and Info buttons does nothing. No change to what's on the screen. And for the record I tried both the VCR archival output as well as the Y output from component and neither works.

Oh - also, I unplugged everything (i.e. hard reboot) in between each time I tried this with the various inputs. I also had the TV on and the 8000HD off as instructed.

Am I missing something? Is my box DOA? Do you have to press the buttons and hold them for a long time? Am I not pressing them simultaneously enough?

Please advise and thanks in advance.

TM

Originally posted by LL3HD
Manatus, or whoever else uses both,

What’s your opinion regarding OTA compared with TW?
How does the picture quality and audio compare?
Any drop outs?
Does the weather make a difference on reception?
Is it user friendly?
On a station by station comparison, is one better than the other?

TIA,

Larry

When TWCNYC is at its best, there's no great difference. Now that I'm using the 8000HD DVR, with its slightly degraded PQ, I often switch over to OTA when it's convenient to do so. I've never seen any weather-related problems, but I have a big advantage over many in that I'm about 1.5 miles from all three major HD transmission masts and have a full view of all of them from my windows. User friendly? I suppose so unless one values on-screen program guides, which most stations don't broadcast. Personally, it was useful to have OTA available when TWCNYC goofed and disconnected my cable for a week last year. My own situation could change when the HD stations relocate to the "Freedom Tower." I didn't have a view of the former WTC-1 antenna (and that's the main reason that I got cable in the first place 20-plus years ago), but the FT will probably be tall enough to overcome that problem.

im trying to figure out which of these twnyc hd boxes work the best?

the additional HD channels one month free promotion ends tonight at 12:00pm, just got off the phone with them and added the additional chanels for $8.95, the complete HD package is now costing me $15 a month, could be better, but not bad.

Let me ask this in a simpler way:

Has anyone successfully set up an 8000HD in SD mode connected to an SD set?

Thanks,
TM

What does the other $6.05 get you ?



Originally posted by cybertec
the additional HD channels one month free promotion ends tonight at 12:00pm, just got off the phone with them and added the additional chanels for $8.95, the complete HD package is now costing me $15 a month, could be better, but not bad.

The $15 includes the HD DVR and the HD channel package, less than the stand alone prices combined.

Now, can anyone answer my question? :)

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody

Now, can anyone answer my question? :)

TM

I'll try. Do make sure that you're pressing the correct buttons on the box to shift it to SD-mode. If you are, you'll see the LED display on the box cycling between "hD" and "sD." Just release the buttons when you reach the desired mode. The 8000HD defaults to HD-mode whenever it's turned off and then back on. I've never downshifted the box to connect it to a SD TV, but I have done so many times to copy programs over to my DVD recorder, using the S-Video output.

Since your ED TV can accept a 480p signal over component, why don't you just leave the 8000 in HD-mode and configure it to output only 480p (SETTINGS -> MORE SETTINGS -> OUTPUT FORMATS)?

Thanks Manatus. To your first point, the thing is that when I press both buttons, nothing happens. The time is displayed on the 8000HD, and nothing (S video) or digital noise (composite) is shown on screen. To your second point, when I connect the box in component, it must be defaulting to 1080i (or something other than 480p) b/c the picture is essentially all screwed up (tough to describe but looks like an old set with the horizontal control all facacta) and so I can't read anything that may or may not be showing up on screen.

I do have audio though. So...any way you could walk me through the exact button presses to get through the process you outlined "(SETTINGS -> MORE SETTINGS -> OUTPUT FORMATS)" so that I output only 480p? I'd be extremely greatful and as a fellow denizen of the West Village especially so :)

TM

TM, I've heard that there is some odd ball requirement that in order to get SD to work you need to have PiP turned on or something like that????? Might try a search and see if you can find the specific comment or note..

Here is the blind man's walkthrough to outputting "480p only" on the SA8000HD.

Settings --> A --> Down Arrow --> Down Arrow --> Down Arrow --> Right Arrow --> Select --> Up Arrow --> Up Arrow --> Select --> Left Arrow --> Exit


The best way to make sure that everything works as planned is to turn the box off, wait one second, then turn on the box. Be sure to wait a full second between each key press since the remote and box are slow to react to eachother and quick key presses are often not registered.

This set up assumes that your box is default set to 1080i output. The first "select" enables 480p, and the second "select" turns off 1080i output.

Good luck!

Drew

Originally posted by Paul Chiu
What does the other $6.05 get you ? the previous HD channels, what do you think, they where for free.

What previous HD channels? Are you referring to TNT-HD and Discover-HD? I think those are still free.

As for the $6.05, didn't someone here already said it's for the DVR package?



Originally posted by cybertec
the previous HD channels, what do you think, they where for free.

The new HD tier includes the 2 InHD, 2 HDNet, and ESPN channels. The other HD channels are still free.
If you add these channels, its $8.95. If you add the DVR its $8.95. If you add both its $15.00 (Hence 6.05)

Drew you ROCK thank you. I'm off to try this now...

Thanks!
TM


SUCCESS!! Thanks so much Drew. You da man. Interestingly, I can't get the aspect ratio right for SD channels. AR controls on the set are disabled (apparently) through the component input. The AR control on the cable box doesn't seem to pass through what I'm telling it to. I tell it I have a widescreen set and all the choices from there look the same - stretched left to right.

However, if I tell it I have a 4:3 set (which I don't) then tell it to compress the image, the HD channels look correct :) I'll keep fiddling with it but for now I'm happy - thanks again!

TM, glad it helped. Long ago with Pio box I tried to output "720p only" to my 1080i set and my set wasn't very happy. It took me about 30 minutes of trying to blindly re-enable 1080i. Eventualyl I got it, but I could sympathize with your plight.

Don't konw if it will help, but the # button on the remote also does some AR tweeking as well.

Drew

Has anyone else decided to not subscribe to the HD tier? I'm actually at the threshold where adding another 6.00 to my bill is getting crazy. It's not the money, its the principle.

Originally posted by cybertec
NOT EVEN CLOSE, ED=ED, HD=HD, that's why ED panels cost HALF the price of HD panels, there is a reason for that, and you CAN tell the difference, even at 10 feet, so please spare us with this nonsense.

You don't have to take MY word for it. Just take a stroll down to the Plasma and LCD Flat panel discussion forum and learn for yourself. Beyond 8-9 feet, you can't tell the difference between an ED and a HD PLASMA.

Originally posted by drew138
TM, glad it helped. Long ago with Pio box I tried to output "720p only" to my 1080i set and my set wasn't very happy. It took me about 30 minutes of trying to blindly re-enable 1080i. Eventualyl I got it, but I could sympathize with your plight.

Don't konw if it will help, but the # button on the remote also does some AR tweeking as well.

Drew


I hear you! And the # button thing I just discovered which is really helpful. I still can't get it to display 4:3 images properly on my set - whether I tell the 8000HD I have a 4:3 or 16:9 set it still stretches (or stretches *and* zooms them) but HD pictures look great and in the proper ARs. Most of what I watch and record is in the HD channels anyway so...

Thanks again!
TM

Originally posted by drew138
Has anyone else decided to not subscribe to the HD tier? I'm actually at the threshold where adding another 6.00 to my bill is getting crazy. It's not the money, its the principle.

I wouldn't mind paying, for something actually worth the money. IMHO, InHD wasn't worth paying for, and while ESPN-HD was nice it's not playing anything I' want to watch now anyway.

If they added FSN-HD and MSG-HD and Hockey starts back up, I'd be all over that. Or, failing that, giving us another 10-20 channels in HD. Otherwise, it's just not worth it.

Originally posted by drew138
Has anyone else decided to not subscribe to the HD tier? I'm actually at the threshold where adding another 6.00 to my bill is getting crazy. It's not the money, its the principle.

I'm only subscribing to their basic service which is the OTA channels plus Discovery and TNT. The best part is that I only pay $12 a month! I just can't see myself spending the dough you guys are paying for something that I hardly watch. I mean, most of the shows that I watch are on the OTA networks anyhow. Some of you are spending $80-$110/month. You could put that money into a nice flat screen!

I had the opportunity to screen the new tier for a couple of weeks now and I don't think they're worth $8. That's just me.

I subscribe to Netflix and I get any movie that I want without b/s which beats HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc by a mile!

Originally posted by jcc
You don't have to take MY word for it. Just take a stroll down to the Plasma and LCD Flat panel discussion forum and learn for yourself. Beyond 8-9 feet, you can't tell the difference between an ED and a HD PLASMA.


Jcc, the issue is not as cut and dried as you've laid it out. Making gross statements about viewing distance (eg 8-9 feet) is meaningless without the proper context, i.e. what size set you are talking about. Whether you measure in picture heights or picture widths, there has to be some caveat made.

I can assure you that 8-9 feet from my front projected image (110" diagonal) even a person with poor vision can tell the difference b/t an HD and ED projector.

More specifically, I would phrase the pertinent question as such: at the practical (and likely) viewing distance for a given screen size, can you tell the difference? In my experience the answer is unequivocally yes. Why? Because with the HD set you're likely to sit closer if the room set up allows for it.

In fact I just went through this exact exercise with my uncle. We had two plasmas - both 42" - one ED and one HD (they were NECs for the record).

In the living room the viewing distance was pretty much fixed by existing furniture layout. At the fixed distance in this particular room, he found the difference in ED and HD sets negligible watching HD channels with the cablevision HD box (he's in Westchester). I could see a difference but I'm 1/2 his age with excellent vision.

In the other room - his office - the viewing distance was very flexible. As a result, he was able to get his desk seat much closer to the 42" set and as a result even with his 'old' eyes he could easily see the difference when watching HD channels through each.

He chose the ED set for the living room and the HD for the office. This may seem like it goes against conventional wisdom which would otherwise state that the larger the set the easier it is to tell the difference. This is true as long as all else is held the same. And that's exactly the point I'm making. You didn't hold all else the same - in particular relative viewing distance which probably contributes as much to perceptions of PQ as much as anything else.

The difference is there. If you don't want to (or don't choose to) sit close enough to see the difference in normal viewing, that's your choice. And btw I have no axe to grind as I own an HD projector and an ED rear projector.

TM

It is pretty sickening what we pay for cable. I was actually doing the math this morning. My bill is approx. $150 a month for cable and Internet (this is b/f the extra $6 for HD xTRA). That equates to $1800 a year - when you think of it like that, it's pretty upsetting. Unfortunately I don't have any other options. I can't put up a dish in my building. I get basically no channels if I just plug into the coax jack in my wall thanks to TW scrambling virtually all of their channels. And I don't have good LOS for a HD antenna to work. So I'm pretty much stuck with TW. And I of course want the DVR and want the premiums, hence the $150 bill.

When I think about spending an extra $6 for the HD Tier, it's pretty insignificant when I consider how much I spend on stupid things like cabs to and from work, etc which are astronomical since the fare hike.

Originally posted by anthonymoody

The difference is there. If you don't want to (or don't choose to) sit close enough to see the difference in normal viewing, that's your choice. And btw I have no axe to grind as I own an HD projector and an ED rear projector.

TM

I was talking about PLASMAs which I believe I said many times, NOT any other type of displays, ok? That out of the way, I also said that viewing distance is the deciding factor which is EXACTLY what you stated above. Thus, once again, ED=HD Plasmas beyond 8-9 feet.

Yes there will be people with eyes like hawks that CAN spot the difference just like there are people who can hear dog whistles and thus be able to HEAR the difference between a $10,000 speaker cable and a $500 speaker cable but for the "normal" people on this planet, it's impossible.

Generalizations are exactly that, they fit a general population. For get about the people in the left and right extremes of the curve.

For some reason I don't think people are reading what I'm writing....

Originally posted by EricScott
It is pretty sickening what we pay for cable.... it's pretty upsetting. Unfortunately I don't have any other options. I can't put up a dish in my building ... I'm pretty much stuck with TW. And I of course want the DVR and want the premiums, hence the $150 bill.



The pricing is insane and the rates will probably be even higher in the new year. It kills me to be paying these rates for cable. It’s gut wrenching. I will not stand for it anymore!…

…However, with that said, I subscribed to the new HD tier. Go figure. I do find these channels entertaining. And --with the DVR, when it’s functioning properly, I now have plenty of HD viewing available. Though I still want more HD!-- PIX, MSG, Starz, Cmax, TMC, Bravo, UPN…

I don’t see what choices there are. EricScott mentions that his options are hampered by the fact that he can’t put a dish up at his residence. What advantage will a dish provide me with? Voom? No YES network. Unfortunately, or, fortunately, TW has a decent channel line up. As one small example, I could not survive without the Music Channels.


Larry

Originally posted by jcc
I'm only subscribing to their basic service which is the OTA channels plus Discovery and TNT. The best part is that I only pay $12 a month! I just can't see myself spending the dough you guys are paying for something that I hardly watch. I mean, most of the shows that I watch are on the OTA networks anyhow. Some of you are spending $80-$110/month. You could put that money into a nice flat screen!

I had the opportunity to screen the new tier for a couple of weeks now and I don't think they're worth $8. That's just me.

I subscribe to Netflix and I get any movie that I want without b/s which beats HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc by a mile!


You pay 12 bucks and then rent DVD’s from net flix?? To borrow an expression that should ring a bell JCC-- that’s stone knives and bear skins.

I can not watch a movie on a DVD when it could be viewed in HD on one of the premium channels. The sound might be better on a DVD but there is no comparison with the HD picture. Maybe you’re sitting too far from your ED. :D

No offense, but you will not win the ED = HD argument, no matter what rational (or irrational argument) you use and I really am not trying to get into an argument with you, I respect your opinion.


Larry

Originally posted by jcc
I was talking about PLASMAs which I believe I said many times, NOT any other type of displays, ok? That out of the way, I also said that viewing distance is the deciding factor which is EXACTLY what you stated above. Thus, once again, ED=HD Plasmas beyond 8-9 feet.

Yes there will be people with eyes like hawks that CAN spot the difference just like there are people who can hear dog whistles and thus be able to HEAR the difference between a $10,000 speaker cable and a $500 speaker cable but for the "normal" people on this planet, it's impossible.

Generalizations are exactly that, they fit a general population. For get about the people in the left and right extremes of the curve.

For some reason I don't think people are reading what I'm writing....


Jcc,

At the end of the day I guess we have to agree to disagree. I believe the heart of the bell curve lies firmly in the camp that can tell the difference at normal viewing distances. I've experienced this countless times myself and many times with others, including with plasmas.

Perhaps you've not experienced either type of plasma (particuarly the HD ones) at their post-calibration best. Over driven, over bright, white crushed displays can hide an awful lot of good stuff.

TM

Qucik Question.

Im new to the HD scene. TWC gave me a SA3250. I was wondering how if it is possible to know the output (480, 720, etc) and adjust it. TWC rep said the setup procedure in the manuel is not programed yet for the unit. Is this true. I have a sammy 4663. When watching HD channels it says its in 1080, some channels are in 720. Is there any thread or post that deals with setup with these boxes and/or improving picture quality on SD.