does anyone know if Sharp's AQUOS GDx line, the ones WITH the tuner and built-in CableCard ability (which SHOULD mean it can decode 5.1..) can accept (and then output) the 8300's HDMI 5.1?

thanks and sorry if this is recurring question, i looked back pretty far.

Originally posted by jcc
Hey what happened to HD-TNT? Did they move it to another channel?:confused:

The last channel I have for it was 87-2. That stopped working about 4 days ago.


It's gone for me as well. I still have Discovery HD on 87.1 though. Maybe TWC got around to scrambling the channel. If you find it somewhere else, please post it. Or - if you find anything else that's good. :)

I almost always watch Disc HD using my tv tuner since I don't have to use the 8000HD. If anyone out there has a built in ATSC tuner I recommend using it - the PQ is exceptional.

Originally posted by pdroth
It's gone for me as well. I still have Discovery HD on 87.1 though. Maybe TWC got around to scrambling the channel. If you find it somewhere else, please post it. Or - if you find anything else that's good. :)

I almost always watch Disc HD using my tv tuner since I don't have to use the 8000HD. If anyone out there has a built in ATSC tuner I recommend using it - the PQ is exceptional.

87.2?>!!

What are you guys using, the Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico? TWC HD channels are 701-725.

:confused:

Originally posted by Rieper
87.2?>!!

What are you guys using, the Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico? TWC HD channels are 701-725.

:confused:
I think they are connecting the cable line direct to their HDTV's ATSC tuner, without using a cable box.

I have an HD monitor, not an HDTV, so I cant do that. I dont quite know what they are talking about with the 87.1 or 87.2 either. I guess thats how an ATSC tuner receives its channels?

For someone with an HD monitor, is it worth it to get a set top ATSC tuner? I see walmart even sells them now, for around $200.00. If I got one of those, I could hook it up to my cable feed and receive the HDTV channels without using my cable box?

Originally posted by Rieper
87.2?>!!

What are you guys using, the Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico? TWC HD channels are 701-725.

:confused:

Since I have a built-in tuner, if I split the cable and send a line directly to the TV I can pick up all of the non-scrambled analog AND digital channels.

For example 1.2 is the HD feed of CBS, 1.4 is NBC, and so on. Oddly, I can map 1.9 which is the HD of Channel 9, but it is always SD and not yet mapped on the cable box.

The nice thing about it is that changing channels is fast, and it allows me to really do 3 things at once - record 2 shows on the 8000 (hopefully 8300 by this afternoon) and watch a 3rd non-scrambled channel through the TV.

Originally posted by svolman
I swapped the box in brooklyn: took one HD & one SD. The rep looked pissed and told me not to "tell my friends".

I think going the trouble ticket route is smart, as she claimed TW does not want to swap "working" boxes. Went to the Queens Center yesterday and swapped my last 8000SD for a 8300SD. I had done 1 HD & 1 SD last week. No problems both times. They did not even say anything, but I did go home and told all my friends..:D

Finally got my 8300 today at Queens Center. No questions asked except "You want the 8300, right?" Yes please.

I'm using HDMI-HDMI connection and the PQ is superb. Channel change speed is much improved as well. But the big thing for me is the new search function - what a big improvement!

One question though - I thought the 8300 had a Passthrough feature if you are using HDMI? Is this only on SARA models?

Originally posted by John Mason
While my 8300HD now seems to match the wow factor of the RCN converter, the differing cable systems complicates comparisons. Mentioned in another post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5162828#post5162828) today a hope that next week's HDNet patterns might generate some comparisons. -- John So, what's the eta for your measurements? I stuck with the pio box all through everybody's 8000HD trials and tribulations because I was more concerned with pq than DVR. I'd be keen to see what you come up with and how it compares not only to the 8000HD but to the pioneer as well. Your efforts are most appreciated.

I agree with Sickman. I am eagerly awaiting your measurements. While I love the functionality of the HD dvr, I believe that my Pioneer 3510 had overall better PQ than does my 8300. Curious to see if your findings confirm this.

Originally posted by pdroth

One question though - I thought the 8300 had a Passthrough feature if you are using HDMI? Is this only on SARA models?

Yes.

Originally posted by LisaM
I agree with Sickman. I am eagerly awaiting your measurements. While I love the functionality of the HD dvr, I believe that my Pioneer 3510 had overall better PQ than does my 8300. Curious to see if your findings confirm this. How big a gap do you perceive between the Pioneer 3510 PQ and the 8300?

Hope there wasn't a misunderstanding about these tests. While I plan on checking my 8300HD, my post and sublink just above suggested others with Pioneer and 8300HDs converters make measurements, too. Don't have a Pioneer myself. With a Pioneer or any non-DVR converter you've got the last 4 minutes of HDNet's Tuesday* 6 am ET 10-minute patterns to scan the numbered central vertical wedges, figure where B&W lines just merge together, multiply that number by 100, then multiply that by 1.78 to determine the full 16:9 horizontal resolution. WIth my former 8000HD, this was 5 X 100 X1.78 = only 890 lines. It's 1290 lines with the 8300HD. With my former RCN Cable 6208 DVR it was 1335 lines. (Here's an image (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6664456&&#post6664456) of the HDNet resolution-wedge pattern, which runs in minutes 6--10 of the patterns. -- John
EDIT: *Update: On 7/7/07 it was Saturdays at 6:30 am ET; check schedule at HD.Net using 'test' as a title search word.

I picked up mine at the Queens Center mall today.

I am using the component out to connect to a RPTV and the picture quality definately seems better then the 8000 for both HD and SD content. Even if it's slight it's definately worth it for the better overall operation of the 8300. Switching between HD and SD no longer stutters and takes 10 seconds. I just picked up a HDMI -> DVI conterter so that I can use the DVI input on my TV. Only reason I am doing this is becase my TV lets me calibrate the DVI input differently then the component input.

Also, while I was picking up the box today, the guy that helped me tried to get me to sign up for Starz. I asked him if they were going to add Starz HD. He said yes, within the next week or so. I am guessing that was a complete lie, and he was just trying to sell me on the channels.

Regards,

Adam

It's still on 87.2 but encrypted. Do not be surprised if in the near future Discovery HD will be encrypted as well and both channels moving to HDXtra


Originally posted by pdroth
It's gone for me as well. I still have Discovery HD on 87.1 though. Maybe TWC got around to scrambling the channel. If you find it somewhere else, please post it. Or - if you find anything else that's good. :)

I almost always watch Disc HD using my tv tuner since I don't have to use the 8000HD. If anyone out there has a built in ATSC tuner I recommend using it - the PQ is exceptional.

Another nugget from the insider. Thanks for the info though it's bad news as I take it. Hey insider, you guys working on a fix for the 5.1/HDMI problem?

Phil, Manatus, et al,
Thanks for the info re: the menu structure, default output resolutions, etc. I'll take the plunge and see what happens.

Thanks,
TM

Sickman, on the Pioneer 3510, DiscoveryHD looked absolutely gorgeous. It really had the "wow" effect - crystal clear and smooth as glass. On the 8300, I see some video noise in the background even from 8 feet away, which is distracting to me. Furthermore, with the 3510, the most minute facial features were noticible. I don't see the same acuity with the 8300.

(Caveat: I know that these are not technical terms and that this is not based on anything scientific but only on my eyesight and recollection of the 3510.)

Originally posted by LisaM
Sickman, on the Pioneer 3510, DiscoveryHD looked absolutely gorgeous. It really had the "wow" effect - crystal clear and smooth as glass. On the 8300, I see some video noise in the background even from 8 feet away, which is distracting to me. Furthermore, with the 3510, the most minute facial features were noticible. I don't see the same acuity with the 8300.

(Caveat: I know that these are not technical terms and that this is not based on anything scientific but only on my eyesight and recollection of the 3510.)

As a previous owner of a Pio3510 for over 1 yr, I seem to be in the minority opinion that my new 8300HD via HDMV>DVI has BETTER PQ than my old PIO box (also used DVI). I have a Samsung HLN Series 43" DLP, and over the last several days, I am getting that WOW factor even more than with my old Pio box.

Just picked up my new 8300HD in Brooklyn this weekend (thanks for the heads up), and I have a question.

Is there a way to stretch the guide across the screen when I press the "GUIDE" button? I have a new plasma, and I'm a bit paranoid about burn-in, and it seems I use the guide an awful lot.

I'm connected HDMI>HDMI.

Thanks,
Nosoapradio

Originally posted by LisaM
Sickman, on the Pioneer 3510, DiscoveryHD looked absolutely gorgeous. It really had the "wow" effect - crystal clear and smooth as glass. On the 8300, I see some video noise in the background even from 8 feet away, which is distracting to me. Furthermore, with the 3510, the most minute facial features were noticeable. I don't see the same acuity with the 8300.

(Caveat: I know that these are not technical terms and that this is not based on anything scientific but only on my eyesight and recollection of the 3510.)

I'm seeing this as well, being a former Pioneer 3510 user. However, I'm not really sure what it means. There are two explanations I can think of:

1. The 3510 "smeared out" the video noise through some kind of noise reduction, and the 8300HD is giving us the un-adultered picture.

2. The 8300HD is adding extra noise to the signal before passing it on to the television (re-sampling?).

The perceived PQ could also depend of display technology, for example 8-bit plasmas would have a bigger problem with the 8300HD and the extra noise. A display with noise reduction functionality may be able to deliver a smoother image (not necessary more correct, though).

I'm looking forward to the test pattern on Tuesday to see what that tells us.

If someone has a set with a HD tuner (that can pick up cable channels), it would be interesting to get a comparison between what the 8300HD sends out and what a native tuner would. That should be able to determine what we are dealing with.

Does anyone with a regular explorer 8000 SD have the output to VCR feature? Apparently, we have the latest versions of Passport Echo there is in NYC, but we still dont have the OUtput to VCR feature.

Even though my 8000SD has been working good the past few months, I might consider getting the 8300SD just to get that feature. It really annoys me that alot of the features of these boxes are disabled by TWC.

Also, whats the deal with the web browsing capabilities of these boxes? According to SA, they have Web Browsing capability, and it also says that the front USB ports are for USB keyboards, but I have never heard of anyone who has web browsing on an explorer set top, or any cable STB for that matter. Is that just a rumor, or is it a feature SA hasnt quite ironed all the bugs out of yet?

Lastly, if anyone on Staten Island has any updates on 8300 availability, please post here. Thanks!

Carl: I wonder if it is box dependent. A few people earlier in the thread mentioned a "haze" effect. Perhaps it is as simple as a few bad boxes?

I'm pretty sure that the ouptut to VCR feature is only available on SARA based systems. I've had an 8000SD, 8000HD, and 8300HD (all with Passport) and none of these seem to have this feature. You can use PIP to output to the VCR, but that's a poor tool at best since it has an inactivity timer of 20-30 minutes.

Also, I don't think TWCNY is disabling any features. It's just that the Passport developers and the SARA developers have chosen slightly different feature sets to implement. Based on discussions in other forums, I'm quite happy that we in the TWCNYC area have Passport as it seems to include a better (for me) feature set than SARA.

-barry

Originally posted by Goanna
Does anyone with a regular explorer 8000 SD have the output to VCR feature? Apparently, we have the latest versions of Passport Echo there is in NYC, but we still dont have the OUtput to VCR feature.

Even though my 8000SD has been working good the past few months, I might consider getting the 8300SD just to get that feature. It really annoys me that alot of the features of these boxes are disabled by TWC.

Originally posted by margoba
I'm pretty sure that the ouptut to VCR feature is only available on SARA based systems. I've had an 8000SD, 8000HD, and 8300HD (all with Passport) and none of these seem to have this feature. You can use PIP to output to the VCR, but that's a poor tool at best since it has an inactivity timer of 20-30 minutes.

Also, I don't think TWCNY is disabling any features. It's just that the Passport developers and the SARA developers have chosen slightly different feature sets to implement. Based on discussions in other forums, I'm quite happy that we in the TWCNYC area have Passport as it seems to include a better (for me) feature set than SARA.

-barry

I thought the 8300HD with passport DOES have the output to VCR feature?

Also, They do change some features. For instance, the version of passport we have running should have activated the DVI port on the 8000HD, but in NYC time warner is not activating the DVI. Meanwhile, other states have had working DVI for months.

I thought the 8300HD with passport DOES have the output to VCR feature?
Also, They do change some features. For instance, the version of passport we have running should have activated the DVI port on the 8000HD, but in NYC time warner is not activating the DVI. Meanwhile, other states have had working DVI for months.

The 8300HD will output constantly through the VCR OUT and S-VIDEO OUT ports the video signal, and audio through RCA jacks. It does not, however, have a feature that says "Record to VCR" that will eliminate any possible interference from the operating system (such as a band at the bottom indicating a new program recording, etc). I remember TiVo's Record to VCR that would give tiny, unobtrusive warnings onscreen if you tried to do something to disturb the VCR recording (but you couldn't, say, view a different program while outputting to VCR).

I'm not sure what the SARA "Record to VCR" does (having Passport, myself). What people would like to ASSUME is that it outputs the desired recording to the RCA/S-Video jacks and leaves the main (component or HDMI) display alone so you can watch a different program yet (and, presumably, record up to 2 additional programs simultaneously). It is my suspicion that this is not happening with ANY gear known to us at this time; thus, the 8300/8300HD has the functionality of "Record to VCR" with only minor possible glitches in the process.

As to the DVI port, I am not aware of ANYONE in the country (and I belong to a group that hears from all over the US and Canada on 8000/8300 issues) that has a working DVI port on an 8000/8000HD. Perhaps someone will find me wrong on that issue but I don't think so. Anyway, I hope this helps.

Having had an 8300HD since Monday afternoon, I can say that it is MILES ahead of the 8000; I think I can remember 1 or 2 pixellation incidents and NO audio dropouts. I just bought a DVD-R (Saturday) because finally I have a box I can trust to make a decent record, through the S-Video port, of items I want to archive. Advice: Don't bother with an expensive DVD-R - I got a Panasonic for less than $225; with the DVR you're wasting your money if you buy one with a built-in HD (unless you have a videocam or some other need for same...)

Jay Gould

I am pretty sure I have read here on avsforum that people have received an update which activated the DVI port. I think it was TWC texas that first did it. Maybe I am wrong though, or maybe if I am not, they might be using SARA and not Passport.

Interesting to hear more about 8300HD versus Pioneer 3510HD quality from users of both. Especially mention of "image haze." I turned in my SA3100HD last week, notorious for its contrast- and resolution-spoiling faint white haze, after getting a 8300HD that lets me switch between SD and HD without walking to the converter. But if the 3510 is significantly 'crisper' than the 8300HD I'd considering renting the 3510 just for its HD fidelity and use the 8300HD mostly for its DVR feature.

Again, if anyone with a 3510 can tune in HDNet at 8 am Tuesday, as detailed here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424)(with a test pattern image), you can measure the maximum horizontal resolution. With my former SA3100HD, this was about 1290 lines, compared to only 890 lines with my former fuzzy-image 8000HD, but 1335 lines with my DCT6208 DVR from RCN Cable. It would help, with any readings posts, to mention an estimate (or fixed-pixel limit) of the display used. It would be super to hear from someone with one of the 1080p fixed-pixel displays, which easily resolves maximum 1920X1080 test patten details, because that would establish the maximum resolution TWC/HDNet is delivering. Capturing the 10-minute HDNet patterns on disc/tape is best, of course, because you can freeze frame images instead of being rushed while using them. -- John

Re. an earlier question on whether HDMI-HDMI on Aquos GDxx series -- which is 5.1 capable -- keeps 5.1 enabled, the answer, based on my experience, is NO.

Given this, I've taken this thread's advice and connected the TV using a HDMI-DVI cable, then taken optical out from 8300 into my receiver. This appears to be the only viable option -- other than the component picture route.

damn. thanks bondtrader.
does anyone have an HDMI receiver? whats the point of HDMI anyway if it can't talk to 5.1 enabled hardware?

I know we're waiting for the test image tomorrow to get a better scientific answer to this, but I can clearly see a lower PQ on the new 8300. Right now I have a Pioneer, an 8000 and an 8300 (using everything but the 8300 on SD right now).

While the 8300 does seem to be an improvement over the 8000, there is a haze on most of the broadcasts as well as snow in large white images. It is a bit disappointing as the Pioneer had the best image thus far. To the trained eye, it is night and day between the Pioneer and 8300.

Unfortunately, the Pioneer seems to shut off by itself all the time, so it rendered my Tivo useless and now I am stuck using the 8300 for DVR functions.

Originally posted by joshsaul
While the 8300 does seem to be an improvement over the 8000, there is a haze on most of the broadcasts as well as snow in large white images. It is a bit disappointing as the Pioneer had the best image thus far. To the trained eye, it is night and day between the Pioneer and 8300.
That seems like the consensus (with Kwokpot dissenting), but is very disconcerting. I definitely value PQ over DVR ability, but DVR is nice. I don't know what to do.

I don't either...one solution may be to have the 3510 on one input for main viewing and the 8300 on a second input just for the dvr capabilities. However, that will mean an additional box charge each month, which I am not thrilled about.

Originally posted by Sickman
That seems like the consensus (with Kwokpot dissenting), but is very disconcerting. I definitely value PQ over DVR ability, but DVR is nice. I don't know what to do.

I guess the good ol saying - "ignorance is bliss" does not necessarily apply here. For those of you who skipped the 8000HD and went straight from the Pioneer 3510 to the 8300 it seems like you are disappointed with PQ. Having "suffered" with the PQ and numerous flaws of the 8000HD (I waited on line for 2 hours the day it came out mind you), the 8300HD is a vast improvement. To me the PQ is great. Better than my 8000HD by a long shot and I would say as good or better than my 3250HD (which was connected via DVI). I used to have the 3510 but the random shutdowns, guide crashes and other issues led me to return it for the 3250. It's been a while so I can't remember what the PQ was like on that box. Add in the DVR features and I'm a happy camper. With my 3510, I rarely watched HD anyway since I was never home to see the shows I like to watch. I used to watch Discovery HD a lot and that's about it (didn't have the HD Tier then).

Everything is relative I guess. I love the 8300 - have literally had maybe three or four audio stutters (no clipping like the 8000HD did all the time), no video dropouts and no reboots in almost 2 weeks of use.

When did 2 channel become a dirty word?

Just got my HDMI cable today, we'll have to give it a test tonight.

Dave

Originally posted by LisaM
I don't either...one solution may be to have the 3510 on one input for main viewing and the 8300 on a second input just for the dvr capabilities. However, that will mean an additional box charge each month, which I am not thrilled about. That's what I do now with the Pioneer HD box and the SD DVR. My intent was to get the 8300 and use the money I saved on the second box to order the HD Tier.

I am wondering if the output from the 8300's "Cable Out" is decoded. If I connected the 8300 to a TV with a built in ATSC tuner, what would happen?

Just curious....JL

Originally posted by EricScott
I guess the good ol saying - "ignorance is bliss" does not necessarily apply here. For those of you who skipped the 8000HD and went straight from the Pioneer 3510 to the 8300 it seems like you are disappointed with PQ. Having "suffered" with the PQ and numerous flaws of the 8000HD (I waited on line for 2 hours the day it came out mind you), the 8300HD is a vast improvement. To me the PQ is great. Better than my 8000HD by a long shot and I would say as good or better than my 3250HD (which was connected via DVI). I used to have the 3510 but the random shutdowns, guide crashes and other issues led me to return it for the 3250. It's been a while so I can't remember what the PQ was like on that box. Add in the DVR features and I'm a happy camper. With my 3510, I rarely watched HD anyway since I was never home to see the shows I like to watch. I used to watch Discovery HD a lot and that's about it (didn't have the HD Tier then).

Everything is relative I guess. I love the 8300 - have literally had maybe three or four audio stutters (no clipping like the 8000HD did all the time), no video dropouts and no reboots in almost 2 weeks of use.


I agree with Eric but in my case, I think ignorance is bliss.

I still have the pio box. I’ll never get rid of it. It always was my favorite for HD PQ-- until the 8300 came out. Now with the 8300, in my view, it gives me back the wow factor. Currently, I have the pio box hooked up to a SD TV. I see no reason to have a SD box. Same charge as a HD box. I think of it as an emergency HD back up, more so when I had the 8000. Also, sometimes when I’m in the room with that SDTV, I can still peruse the HD channels.

I refuse to do a side by side test of the two regarding the PQ. First, I don’t have the time, second, I’m pretty confident from my visual recollection that the 8300 is as good if not better than the pio. If I do a test and I’m wrong, I’ll be more upset than Lisa is now. Ignorance is a good thing, sometimes. But I really do believe that this 8300 has the best PQ—for HD and SD.

This might seem elementary but if I had doubts regarding the PQ on my 8300, I’d re check all the connections. Do the tighten up. Eliminate or replace any splitters. Check the actual cable for any breaks. Lastly, I’d schedule a service call to verify proper incoming signal and strength. If this does not help, I’d swap it out. Hopefully this will put the wow back into your sights.

Larry: I have a service call scheduled for tomorrow. I asked TWC to have the tech bring another 8300 box (I know - faint chance) to see if perhaps my issue is box-dependent. I will definitely report back. I have my fingers crossed that the second 8300 will be better than the one I currently have.

Originally posted by LL3HD

I still have the pio box. I’ll never get rid of it. It always was my favorite for HD PQ-- until the 8300 came out. Now with the 8300, in my view, it gives me back the wow factor. Currently, I have the pio box hooked up to a SD TV. I see no reason to have a SD box. Same charge as a HD box. I think of it as an emergency HD back up, more so when I had the 8000. Also, sometimes when I’m in the room with that SDTV, I can still peruse the HD channels.



I used the same strategy until I got the 8300 as well. I had a 3250HD in the bedroom (connected to an regular TV), a 2nd 3250HD in the living room and an 8000HD in the living room (previously a 8000SD b/c I need a DVR). When the 8000HD came out, I unhooked the 3250 in the bedroom, swapped it for the 8000HD and temporarily moved the 8000SD into the bedroom. My hope was to eliminate the two boxes in the living room - save some money and not have to deal w/ annoying IR conflicts. Of course the 8000HD did not allow me to do that (the PQ was disappointing and the box was very unstable) so I ultimately brought my 8000SD back and got another 3250HD (back to more or less my original setup with an 8000HD in place of the 8000SD).

When the 8300HD came out two weeks ago I went through the exact same process. Except this time, after 3 days of playing around with the 8300, I was pleased with the box's stability and PQ enough to return my 8000HD (for nothing) and move my 3250 from the living room into the bedroom. Now I have 2 boxes for 2 rooms like a normal person :)

To each his own. DVR functionality is extremely important to me. I will always have an HD DVR. The reality is that 90% of what I watch is timeshifted HD - HD that I wouldn't be able to watch if I had to make sure I was on my couch at 8pm every night of the week. The real question for me is whether I will spend the extra $10 a month for a backup HD box to have "improved" PQ. Currently with the 8300HD I don't feel that I have to. But that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by dacaplan
When did 2 channel become a dirty word?

Just got my HDMI cable today, we'll have to give it a test tonight.

Dave

since i paid for this receiver and 5 speakers! please give it a try and let us know.

Originally posted by Sickman
That seems like the consensus (with Kwokpot dissenting), but is very disconcerting. I definitely value PQ over DVR ability, but DVR is nice. I don't know what to do.

I'm sorry that others seem to have lower PQ with the 8300; fortunately, I am not seeing any video noise in the picture.

In fact, I am EXTREMELY PLEASED/no, AMAZED with the HD recording quality of last nights Grammy Awards. I had seen about half of the show live, and when it was finished, I watched portions of the first half, especically the opening acts. The recording was indistinguishable from the live broadcast.

I know the dreaded 'haze' all to well. A llittle over a yr ago, when I bought my Sammy DLP, I switched from RCN to TWC.

In my bedroom, where I have a Sony 27" Trinitron CRT, the haze was immediately apparent. A SA Explorer 2000 is connected to that set. I was very pleased with RCN at the time, but at that point, our building had not been upgraded with fiber for HD service (which RCN has now upgraded), so we had no choice but to switch to TWC.

Anyway, I seem to have some contrarian opinions with some of the other posters here; when the Pio 3250 had finally activated the DVI port early last yr, I thought the PQ via DVI was better than via Component; the poster 'Manatus' had thought otherwise, even with a similar display. So it seems par for the course my opinions are not always consistent with others.

I also just switched out a HDMI>DVI Adapter from a $30 one from Monster Cables to an under $10 one from an online store. I am looking VERY hard, but cannot see any differrrence in the PQ, so the Monster Adapter is going back to Best Buy! ( I also bought a HDMI>DVI cable from the same online retailer at a great price!)

I went from a Pio 3510 to the 8000HD and recently to the 8300HD.
Its been a while since I've seen the 3510, but I am very happy with the PQ of the 8300HD.

Originally posted by kwokpot

Anyway, I seem to have some contrarian opinions with some of the other posters here; when the Pio 3250 had finally activated the DVI port early last yr, I thought the PQ via DVI was better than via Component; the poster 'Manatus' had thought otherwise, even with a similar display. So it seems par for the course my opinions are not always consistent with others.



Not to speak for Manatus but I believe he later discovered that he had a problem with the DVI input on his DLP, which degraded PQ - so maybe you are not a contrarian :)

Just wondering...any news on availability of the HD8300 on Staten Island?
(:::crossing fingers:::) :)

Originally posted by EricScott
Not to speak for Manatus but I believe he later discovered that he had a problem with the DVI input on his DLP, which degraded PQ - so maybe you are not a contrarian :)

I'm glad to speak for myself. After I found that the Pioneer 3510 delivered much worse PQ via DVI than component with my Samsung DLP, I had the display ISF-calibrated. The calibrator found that the Sammy's DVI light output was 75% less than it was through its component inputs. After that discovery, just before the warranty expired, Samsung replaced the display's entire "light engine." If there was any improvement, though, it was marginal.

I don't think that my visual memory of the great PQ that I experienced with the Pio box before last August (when I switched to the SA8000HD) is reliable enough to permit any valid comparisons with that of the SA8300HD. I do know that I am delighted with the quality of this newest box and its output. I'm viewing it via component, after finding that, as I expected with my display, HDMI --> DVI produces an inferior (washed-out) picture.

But, hey, I skipped last year's appointment with my eye doc and can barely see my toes at this point. My cat, though, loves lying atop the 8300 -- it's warm but not too hot.

Originally posted by Manatus
...I'm viewing it via component, after finding that, as I expected with my display, HDMI --> DVI produces an inferior (washed-out) picture.


I suspect the reason for this is a mismatch of black level. I would like official confirmation of this from SA, Pioneer etc., but when using the DVI out on these boxes I believe they are outputting PC Levels 0-255 for black instead of Video Levels 16-234. Carl, care to confirm this since you are a Calibrator?

To make a long story short, I've been through an ISF calibration in the last month and since then have had some problems. I have a Lumagen Vision Pro HDP Video Processor and a NEC 61XM2/S 61" Plasma. After completing the calibration assuming video levels as the output for the cable box, it showed extreme noise and posturization. At the suggestion of Lumagen's tech support, they suggested I change the input level on the processor to PC level in lieu of video level and most of the problems were solved. I have the calibrator scheduled for a re-visit the end of this week to go over everything and confirm the PC level settings and make the necessary adjustments. I will comment after this is completed.

If you have the ability to change the setting for your DVI input between PC and Video Levels (ie. STB Vs PC, Normal Vs. Enhanced, Whatever it may be labeled) give it a try and see if the washed out picture improves. You will notice and immediate improvment in blacks from washed out gray to black and you will have to re-calibrate.

As far as the 3510 Vs. the 8300, for me the jury is still out as I am waiting for the calibration adjustment as right now component out is slightly better than HDMI/DVI. Pure speculation, but to me, there is something going on with TWC. I think they are compressing the signal as only recently there are a rash of reports of excess noise and artifacts present.

Had my first 8300 crash tonight. Was watching CSI:Miami recorded on the DVR, when it froze up ... could fast forward, but the show was a jumbled mess. Had to unplug it twice to get it to properly reboot, but once it was back I was able to finish the program. A bit disconcerting.

Originally posted by pciav
I suspect the reason for this is a mismatch of black level. I would like official confirmation of this from SA, Pioneer etc., but when using the DVI out on these boxes I believe they are outputting PC Levels 0-255 for black instead of Video Levels 16-234. Carl, care to confirm this since you are a Calibrator?

To make a long story short, I've been through an ISF calibration in the last month and since then have had some problems. I have a Lumagen Vision Pro HDP Video Processor and a NEC 61XM2/S 61" Plasma. After completing the calibration assuming video levels as the output for the cable box, it showed extreme noise and posturization. At the suggestion of Lumagen's tech support, they suggested I change the input level on the processor to PC level in lieu of video level and most of the problems were solved. I have the calibrator scheduled for a re-visit the end of this week to go over everything and confirm the PC level settings and make the necessary adjustments. I will comment after this is completed.

If you have the ability to change the setting for your DVI input between PC and Video Levels (ie. STB Vs PC, Normal Vs. Enhanced, Whatever it may be labeled) give it a try and see if the washed out picture improves. You will notice and immediate improvment in blacks from washed out gray to black and you will have to re-calibrate.

As far as the 3510 Vs. the 8300, for me the jury is still out as I am waiting for the calibration adjustment as right now component out is slightly better than HDMI/DVI. Pure speculation, but to me, there is something going on with TWC. I think they are compressing the signal as only recently there are a rash of reports of excess noise and artifacts present.

Black level mismatch is why we have brightness controls on our television sets!

I had to set black level (brightness) very differently between my DVD player and the 8300HD, both connected via DVI, to achieve an accurate picture for both sources.

The two normal used references for black are 0 IRE (some DVD players and computers) and 7.5 IRE (NTSC) corresponding to 0 and 16 decimal on a 8-bit scale.

I haven't had a chance to scope out the signal on the 8300HD yet to determine what is uses, but I had to set brightness a lot lower than I expected to get good blacks.

The only way to do this right is to use test patterns coming out of the actual source device. I used the INHD contrast pattern. This is the one with 0-10-20-30-etc-100% circles. I set brightness to eliminate all noise in the 0% part (making it truly black), still seeing all the other circles clearly from 10% to 100%. This way I achieved zero problems with haze and the picture was not washed out.

I still see crawling dots in brighter parts, but that's not a level problem. Overall, I'm very pleased with the picture of the 8300HD after living with the 8000HD for too long.

Am I a sick person if I'm looking forward to the HDnet resolution wedges tomorrow morning instead of mid-east peace? :-)

Originally posted by csundbom
Black level mismatch is why we have brightness controls on our television sets!

I had to set black level (brightness) very differently between my DVD player and the 8300HD, both connected via DVI, to achieve an accurate picture for both sources.

The two normal used references for black are 0 IRE (some DVD players and computers) and 7.5 IRE (NTSC) corresponding to 0 and 16 decimal on a 8-bit scale.

I haven't had a chance to scope out the signal on the 8300HD yet to determine what is uses, but I had to set brightness a lot lower than I expected to get good blacks.

The only way to do this right is to use test patterns coming out of the actual source device. I used the INHD contrast pattern. This is the one with 0-10-20-30-etc-100% circles. I set brightness to eliminate all noise in the 0% part (making it truly black), still seeing all the other circles clearly from 10% to 100%. This way I achieved zero problems with haze and the picture was not washed out.

I still see crawling dots in brighter parts, but that's not a level problem. Overall, I'm very pleased with the picture of the 8300HD after living with the 8000HD for too long.

Am I a sick person if I'm looking forward to the HDnet resolution wedges tomorrow morning instead of mid-east peace? :-)

I'm seeing merging of the lines at the 7.2 mark, which would give a horizontal resolution of 1280 lines. This hold true for both HDMI and Component inputs with 0% overscan. Please keep in mind that my set only has 1366 horizontal pixels, so this number may be display-limited instead of box-limited.

John, correct me if I didn't do this right.

Measured about 1290 lines of horizontal resolution from my SA8300HD with today's HDNet test-pattern resolution wedges. That's the same reading obtained with my former SA3100HD, but much better than my former SA8000HD (a fuzzy 890 lines). And I get about 1335 lines with a DCT6208 recording from RCN Cable. It's a judgment call determining when the grayish/black area of converging B&W lines is no longer resolvable. Suspect some with fixed-pixel displays, or grapics-grade projectors, can resolve more than my 9"-CRT RPTV (Philips 64PH9905), which needs optics cleaning and probably beam focusing. Still, HDNet's promotional lead-ins to today's test patterns, like Maxa's Smart Travels, look remarkably crisp and clear. My year-2000 set doesn't have HDMI/DVI. Read in another thread that CableCards, which bypass converters with newer displays, can sometimes match HDMI/DVI resolution improvements. -- John

EDIT: "I'm seeing merging of the lines at the 7.2 mark, which would give a horizontal resolution of 1280 lines. This hold true for both HDMI and Component inputs with 0% overscan. Please keep in mind that my set only has 1366 horizontal pixels, so this number may be display-limited instead of box-limited.

John, correct me if I didn't do this right."

I'd say that's a resolution match: 1290 lines here.

Originally posted by csundbom
Black level mismatch is why we have brightness controls on our television sets!

Carl, agreed however; if a STB box is outputting PC Levels of 0-255 and the Display is expecting Video Levels of 16-235 and there is no adjustment in either device to match levels, the way I understand it, there is no way to fully compensate as you are not re-mapping the levels, merely compromising either crushing blacks or whites. I found this thread useful in trying to understand this Go to Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606)

Originally posted by csundbom
I had to set black level (brightness) very differently between my DVD player and the 8300HD, both connected via DVI, to achieve an accurate picture for both sources.

The two normal used references for black are 0 IRE (some DVD players and computers) and 7.5 IRE (NTSC) corresponding to 0 and 16 decimal on an 8-bit scale.

I haven't had a chance to scope out the signal on the 8300HD yet to determine what is uses, but I had the set brightness a lot lower than I expected to get good blacks.

My experience is similar to yours regarding the STB and the DVD Player. The black levels differ significantly. The link above clears up some of the confusion related to 0 & 7.5 IRE and their relationship to Digital Values. Can you expand on anything here that may help us understand this better?

Originally posted by csundbom
The only way to do this right is to use test patterns coming out of the actual source device. I used the INHD contrast pattern. This is the one with 0-10-20-30-etc-100% circles. I set brightness to eliminate all noise in the 0% part (making it truly black), still seeing all the other circles clearly from 10% to 100%. This way I achieved zero problems with haze and the picture was not washed out.

I still see crawling dots in brighter parts, but that's not a level problem. Overall, I'm very pleased with the picture of the 8300HD after living with the 8000HD for too long.

The Circular Contrast Pattern showing gray level steps from 00 to 100 seems to work OK however; I noticed that the previous pattern for setting black level which is the 4 circles seems flawed as setting the level according to their recommended instructions of raising brightness until the outer (4th) ring is just visible sets the black level way too low. Using the contrast pattern with all 10 steps visible produces much better results.

The crawling dots, posturization, mosquito noise, mpeg artifacts… many have reported seeing as of late I still believe is a result of higher compression ratios to the signal. It is not present in all broadcasts or channels. For instance the Grammy’s telecast the other night was completely noise free. Without a way to measure bit rates and/or actual resolution, it remains just a guess.

Carl, thanks for the input. It is nice to have someone who is exposed to a wide range of displays and signal sources offering up some explanations. I am very interested if you actually do scope the 8300 and determine exactly what levels it is outputting.

Phil,

Am I understanding you correctly that you believe that the 8300's HDMI output is passing PC RGB (0-255)? Or were you referring to your old Pioneer over DVI?

A few things that seem strange about this as it relates to the 8300:

1) If it has an HDMI out, then by defintion, doesn't it have to pass Video RGB (16-235)? I thought HDMI was designed to video spec and always passed Video RGB? DVI on the other hand (depending on the device) could force you to only pass PC RGB, which could cause problems if your display expects Video RGB.

2) When I run the InHD test patterns, I agree that using the first pattern with the 4 circles results in a very low setting for Brightness but the fact that you can see the outermost circle means that the the 8300 passes BTB doesn't it? If it passes BTB then it must be Video RGB.

3) I took a quick look at the HDNet pattern this morning and if you turn up your brightness enough and look at the black boxes at the bottom, the box all the way on the right shows a "9" inside - this means the 8300 passes BTB I believe.

So I would be pretty surprised if the 8300 is passing PC RGB instead of Video. That being said, I think the InHD test pattern may be flawed as I ended up setting my Brightness and Contrast dramatically lower than for any other source (digital or analog) to my display. Part of this may be the box but I plan to recalibrate with HDNet later and see what the results would be. It's too bad b/c I like the format of the InHD tests better than the HDNet tests.

Anyone else have any thoughts/comments?

Eric

Originally posted by EricScott
Phil,

Am I understanding you correctly that you believe that the 8300's HDMI output is passing PC RGB (0-255)? Or were you referring to your old Pioneer over DVI?

Eric, That is exactly what I am saying and seem to be able to confirm via the input level selection on my Lumagen VisionPro HDP Video Processor. When using Video Level as the input source black is gray and washed out. When using PC Level input, the blacks are black and all steps of a gray ramp test are visible from 0 to 100.

The link I provided above to the Go to Guide will explain the rest of your questions a lot better than I can. I can only scratch the surface as I understand what I am reading and the concepts, but lack the technical expertise to fully convey it. The introduction of the Video Processor into my system and the new level of flexibility and adjustment I am able to achieve has introduced a whole new level of items that I need to understand more fully than I did in the past and I am learning a lot and that is why I deferred to Carl for some input as he is ISF certified.

DVI is Digital RGB but can be YCbCr also according to spec, but according to everything I have read, that never happens. HDMI is capable of both Digital RGB and YCbCr and depending on how the equipment is designed is dependent on how it works. What the 8300 puts out when going HDMI to HDMI is not known at this time. It could be RGB or YCbCr.

Didn't try adjusting my set with the INHD test patterns, but they looked "off" during recording, suggesting a need for considerable adjustment. Tried the same thing as Eric this morning, adjusting brightness/contrast while HDNet's initial pluge pattern was recording. It also required too much tweaking to make the higher-numbered pluge blocks legible for numbers. Perhaps it's considered wrong by those into calibrating strictly from patterns, but I prefer to set my controls to the most 'natural' images in 1080i/480p. That seems to be about 50%, which is just what they were set at ~5 years ago when I first turned my RPTV on. -- John

Quick questions for TWC 3250HD and 8300HD box users.

Is HDCP enabled on these boxes now? Anyone experienced any DVI monitors stopped working with these boxes recently?

Anyone able to record with JVC D-VHS decks HD channels other than HBO-HD (701) and SHO-HD (703) with either 3250HD or 8300HD boxes through firewire outs?

Thanks!

Paul

Has anyone successfully used Dolby 5.1 with an HDMI-HDMI connection? The reason I ask is that I don't believe I've read a case where it was successful. I believed my TV could process DD but I'm only getting 2ch audio. I wonder if TWC will even look to fix this...

Phil,

Thanks for the link - I will read through that post later when I have a chance.

But the simple fact remains that PC RGB does not pass blacker than black data (you can't go below 0 or above 255), but the test patterns (both InHD and HDNet) suggest that I can see blacker than black (unless I am just not using the test patterns properly). If you can see blacker than black, then you are dealing with Video RGB - I'm pretty sure about this.

I know the HDMI technology can handle both PC and Video RGB as well as YCbCr BUT, AFAIK, all devices with an HDMI output are designed to video spec (to output Video RGB or YCbCr; not PC RGB) as HDMI is designed to be a video technology, whereas DVI was originally designed for PCs and later adapted for use with video monitors.

Everything I know about all of these issues I learned from these forums (especially Bob Parisseau's incredibly useful posts). I am by no means an expert and I haven't had a chance to read the post that you linked so please correct me if I am wrong about any of this.

Originally posted by John Mason
Measured about 1290 lines of horizontal resolution from my SA8300HD with today's HDNet test-pattern resolution wedges. That's the same reading obtained with my former SA3100HD, but much better than my former SA8000HD (a fuzzy 890 lines). And I get about 1335 lines with a DCT6208 recording from RCN Cable. Thanks for doing the work for the rest of us. We have 2 readings at 1280/1290. Some related questions:

Does that resolution test alone account for the improvement people see in the 8300 from the 8000?

Does anyone know what resolution the Pioneer box was producing (I don't think I've seen it reported)?

Am I correct that if resolution is the determining factor here, the 8300 is likely to be either equal or damn close to whatever the Pioneer produces?

An affirmative answer to the last question will send me to 23rd St. to swap my Pio for an 8300.

Reply to two messages immediately above:

Originally posted by Paul Chiu
Anyone able to record with JVC D-VHS decks HD channels other than HBO-HD (701) and SHO-HD (703) with either 3250HD or 8300HD boxes through firewire outs?

Question: FIREWIRE OUTS? 8300HD? TWC/NYC? Where'd you get the 8300HD box with these outs? I know SciAtl makes such a box but I've seen NO other indication of TW releasing such an animal on New York's streets...

Originally posted by kristcnj
Has anyone successfully used Dolby 5.1 with an HDMI-HDMI connection? The reason I ask is that I don't believe I've read a case where it was successful. I believed my TV could process DD but I'm only getting 2ch audio. I wonder if TWC will even look to fix this...

I don't believe it's TWC's problem, at least not directly. Passport is still Pioneer's product (although with Pioneer allegedly getting out of the STB business I understand from somewhere that TW is going to take over development of the product, eventually). There are clearly fixes and upgrades needed (for instance, a "Copy to VCR" function for both 8000 and 8300 that will enable the 8000 ports and ensure a "clean" copy without banners appearing or channel changes allowed, and the setup option routine for this DD issue...it must be VERY annoying to have a state-of-the art HDMI-equipped monitor and have us DVI-equipped, i.e. holders of older and/or cheaper equipment, able to access what you can't!!)

The problem with the third-party-provider model where we rent the box and software from TW and only THEY can talk to the SW developer is that we have to trust TW, Pioneer AND, presumably, SciAtl which has to provide Pioneer with the developer "hooks" into the PowerTV O/S to write said routines, to be both competent and caring. I don't know about you, but I get the picture of the three of them pointing fingers at each other leaving us completely out of the loop. The problem with finger-pointing, of course, is a) while they're doing it, nothing is getting done because fixing the problem requires both hands and b) the offenders never seem to realize that three of the fingers on the pointing hands are pointing back squarely at THEMSELVES (yeah, I know it's corny but MAYBE if someone involved reads this it'll help break the pattern).

We - the guys paying the bills for all this, are generally NOT in the loop.

Jay Gould

Amen my brotha, amen...

Originally posted by Sickman
Does that resolution test alone account for the improvement people see in the 8300 from the 8000?

Does anyone know what resolution the Pioneer box was producing (I don't think I've seen it reported)?

Am I correct that if resolution is the determining factor here, the 8300 is likely to be either equal or damn close to whatever the Pioneer produces?

Not the slightest doubt that it's mostly resolution between the 8300HD and 8000HD.

I'd like to hear from Pioneer users, too, since if it's significantly (nice vague term) better than the 8300HD, I'd probably add a Pioneer for HD viewing and use the 8300HD mostly for DVRing. Whether the 8300HD has a slight 'haze' or other subtle image defects likely requires more time and opinions from others. I may try an A-B comparison for image fogging one of these days using the 8300HD and RCN Cable's DCT6208. With no formal A-B comparisons so far, they seem fairly close, despite the 6208's slightly better resolution (1335 versus 1290). And since they're so close, that might only be something like rate-shaping being used by TWC and not RCN, or slightly more assigned bandwidth from RCN. -- John

I just stopped in at Richmond Ave. in Staten Island and they still don't have any 8300HDs.

Eric,

No need for corrections, I am just reporting what my observations are about my particular equipment so far. That link above contains a lot of information and there are some other links in there related to some info that Stacey Spears and Don Musil observed and posted.

There is nothing evident in the INHD test patterns that indicate there is any below black information encoded there. 00 in the circular pattern represents black not btb as far as I know.

I should know more on this subject after Cliff Plavin, from Progressive Labs, returns on Friday to do the calibration adjustments.

Originally posted by QMAN71
I just stopped in at Richmond Ave. in Staten Island and they still don't have any 8300HDs.

I called them last night before closing, and they told me they did get the regular 8300's in (not HD), so I am guessing the HD's will be coming in real soon.

I will be calling every day until I get a yes :D.

Originally posted by Goanna
I called them last night before closing, and they told me they did get the regular 8300's in (not HD), so I am guessing the HD's will be coming in real soon.

I will be calling every day until I get a yes :D.

Based upon the reports from the rest of the city, we truly are the forgotten borough (at least as Time Warner is concerned).

A CSR at the TWC office in Palisades Park, NJ told me that they now have 8300s in stock.

Is it possible to record Hi Def from any of the Time Warner Hi Def DVR boxes via Firewire ? As I understand it, there is a federal law that requires that all US cable companies provide a Hi Def box with an active firewire output to any customer who requests such, yet, it seems that TWC has no such box. All cable companies were required to comply with this federal law as of April, 2004 ! I tried to search this thread for any info, but this thread is difficult to search due to its length. I called TWC and I plan to explore this further with them, but, I imagine, many of you have already tried. Another question is if Hi Def DVRs with firewire output are not available now, then, does anyone know when they might become available ?

Andy

Originally posted by Calisto
Is it possible to record Hi Def from any of the Time Warner Hi Def DVR boxes via Firewire ? As I understand it, there is a federal law that requires that all US cable companies provide a Hi Def box with an active firewire output to any customer who requests such, yet, it seems that TWC has no such box. All cable companies were required to comply with this federal law as of April, 2004 ! I tried to search this thread for any info, but this thread is difficult to search due to its length. I called TWC and I plan to explore this further with them, but, I imagine, many of you have already tried. Another question is if Hi Def DVRs with firewire output are not available now, then, does anyone know when they might become available ?

Andy

This subject has been discussed earlier in this thread and elsewhere. TWCNYC will provide a SA3250HD STB with a working firewire output to any customer who requests one and can demonstrate a need to have one (such as ownership of a D-VHS recorder).

Originally posted by pciav
Eric,

No need for corrections, I am just reporting what my observations are about my particular equipment so far. That link above contains a lot of information and there are some other links in there related to some info that Stacey Spears and Don Musil observed and posted.

There is nothing evident in the INHD test patterns that indicate there is any below black information encoded there. 00 in the circular pattern represents black not btb as far as I know.

I should know more on this subject after Cliff Plavin, from Progressive Labs, returns on Friday to do the calibration adjustments.

Sounds good. Would definitely like to hear what a professional thinks.

I thought in the InHD test pattern - the first one (with the 4 circles, not the one with 10), that the outermost circle is BTB. Maybe it's not.

And for the HDNet pattern, if you can see the "10" in the bottom right black box on the first pattern, I thought that was BTB as well.

Can someone who knows specifics about these test patterns confirm either of the above statements?

This is true for firewire enabled TV sets, but TWC is not making all channels recordable with the firewire enabled D-VHS recorders. Only HBO-HD (701) and SHO-HD (703) are coded to be recorded once with the JVC D-VHS recorders in 1920x1080. All the other HD channels cannot be recorded at all. This is strange, as the networks; CBS, NBC, and ABC should have no issues with having their HD programs recorded "once".

Paul


Originally posted by Manatus
This subject has been discussed earlier in this thread and elsewhere. TWCNYC will provide a SA3250HD STB with a working firewire output to any customer who requests one and can demonstrate a need to have one (such as ownership of a D-VHS recorder).

Thanks for the info. I have a DVHS deck too (a JVC) and its a crime that we can only record two channels of Hi Def (HBO & Showtime). Does anyone know of any other Hi Def channels that can be recorded via Firewire besides HBO & Showtime ? I would have thought that Hi Def PBS content could be copied. at least once.

This is an on going issue, running for nearly a year. The simple answer is that only HBO and SHO are sending out the copy once signal, so after we record a 1920x1080 HD movie onto D-VHS, that copy cannot be duplicated, either to another D-VHS or to computer.

The problem is that the other channels are not sending out the copy once signal. When the D-VHS with copy protection reads the non-signal material, it does not know what to make of it and render the copying function inactive.

I have tried calling the TWC people to have them send out the same copy once carrier beep on all the other HD channels, but no one knows how. Unbelievable!

Paul




Originally posted by Calisto
Thanks for the info. I have a DVHS deck too (a JVC) and its a crime that we can only record two channels of Hi Def (HBO & Showtime). Does anyone know of any other Hi Def channels that can be recorded via Firewire besides HBO & Showtime ? I would have thought that Hi Def PBS content could be copied. at least once.

Thanks again for the great info.

Paul, how did you get a firewire outputted DVR ? I just called TWC twice and both times they told me that they were simply not available (only to family and friends of TWC employees as beta testers.) I then asked if I could have a beta tester's box and the rep, simply said, she doesn't think so. Reminds me of the commercial where the customer rep guy says 'no' to every request. I even mentioned the federal law, but, again, she said ~ no.

How can I get TWC to give me a firewire box ????

Who you called?

Originally posted by Calisto
Thanks again for the great info.

Paul, how did you get a firewire outputted DVR ? I just called TWC twice and both times they told me that they were simply not available (only to family and friends of TWC employees as beta testers.) I then asked if I could have a beta tester's box and the rep, simply said, she doesn't think so. Reminds me of the commercial where the customer rep guy says 'no' to every request. I even mentioned the federal law, but, again, she said ~ no.

How can I get TWC to give me a firewire box ????

I called Time Warner customer service and spoke to their reps. After being told that they do not have any firewire DVRs, I asked to speak to a supervisor and I am awaiting a call back.

Originally posted by pciav
Carl, agreed however; if a STB box is outputting PC Levels of 0-255 and the Display is expecting Video Levels of 16-235 and there is no adjustment in either device to match levels, the way I understand it, there is no way to fully compensate as you are not re-mapping the levels, merely compromising either crushing blacks or whites. I found this thread useful in trying to understand this Go to Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606)

If I understand you correctly, your concern is that the box re-samples the 16-235 range to 0-255 and discards BTB and WTW information? If it does, it would be a design flaw in my opinion. I can't confirm or deny that this is the case, unless we know for sure that the test patterns contain this information, so we can look for it.

Originally posted by pciav
Using the contrast pattern with all 10 steps visible produces much better results.

Agreed, that's what I use.

Originally posted by pciav
Carl, thanks for the input. It is nice to have someone who is exposed to a wide range of displays and signal sources offering up some explanations. I am very interested if you actually do scope the 8300 and determine exactly what levels it is outputting.

I can't scope out the DVI port, but I can find out what it sends out component. Maybe I find some time in the weekend to play around with it and determine if black is 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE. Either way, it shouldn't cause any problems, unless you have shared settings on your TV for brightness and contrast between inputs.

So I guess the real question is - do the InHD and/or HDNet test patterns contain blacker than black information. If they do, then the 8300 is passing Video RGB over HDMI.

Originally posted by csundbom
If I understand you correctly, your concern is that the box re-samples the 16-235 range to 0-255 and discards BTB and WTW information? If it does, it would be a design flaw in my opinion. I can't confirm or deny that this is the case, unless we know for sure that the test patterns contain this information, so we can look for it.

I do not know if any re-sampling is taking place, but I do believe the at least the Pioneer 3510HD is outputting PC Levels of 0-255. The 8300 may be different with HDMI, but for HDMI to DVI, I also believe it is outputting 0-255 instead of 16-235. This is based upon my conversation with Lumagen and what my own eyes can confirm. When we calibrated the display, we assumed STB 16-235 output. Cliff Plavin used an Accupel Signal Generator and we calibrated across the board for the DVI input 480p, 720p, & 1080i. When returning to the actual signal from first the Pioneer 3510HD and now the 8300, the result was not as expected. Black levels were too high and the picture extremely posturized. Subsequent conversations with Lumagen had me adjust the input level on the DVI input to PC level from video and the results were as previously described, blacks, black and no more washed out gray overexposed noisy picture.

As a result of the above, Cliff is returning this week with a Sencore 403 with updated firmware so we can calibrate the DVI input at PC levels Vs. Video Levels.

Originally posted by csundbom
I can't scope out the DVI port, but I can find out what it sends out component. Maybe I find some time in the weekend to play around with it and determine if black is 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE. Either way, it shouldn't cause any problems, unless you have shared settings on your TV for brightness and contrast between inputs.

When we did the component input we did it at 0 IRE and the results were as expected, great. Right now due to my calibration issues the component out into the processor is superior to either the DVI out of the 3510 or 8300. From some experimenting I did with the DVI signal using the INHD test patterns on another memory channel of the processor, the DVI input should be what it is supposed to be after the re-calibration is done.

Carl, since we can’t scope the DVI port, how do we measure or determine what it is outputting. Again, I am only reporting my experience with my equipment. As you say, whether the component outputs 0 or 7.5 IRE that is easily correctable via proper calibration, but outputting PC to a Display expecting Video Levels or vice versa is a whole other story.

Originally posted by pciav
I do not know if any re-sampling is taking place, but I do believe the at least the Pioneer 3510HD is outputting PC Levels of 0-255.

You mean 0 representing black and 255 white? 16 would then be grayish and 235 whiteish? This means that the box must be mapping 16 to 0 and 235 to 255 on the DVI-port, since that's what's in the source material (16 and 235). This means having to make up a bunch up values to fill in gaps in the range between 0 and 255, and the box would no longer be capable of BTB or WTW reproduction, since values below 0 or over 255 are not allowed. You would also get banding problems.

The box is capable of outputting 0-255 over DVI, that's completely normal and required to reproduce BTB and WTW. What the values mean are a different story. Is 16 black and 235 white (video) or 0 black and 255 white (PC, thereby losing head and toeroom. Bad Thing)?

I think I have identified a source of BTB in the INHD pattern, which would indicate that the box is using 16 to represent black, assuming my logic holds water. On the first pattern (four rings used to set brightness) there is some BTB garbage (created by the MPEG encoder I would think, maybe edge enhancement) visible outside the fourth ring. If you increase brightness until the background becomes grayish, you will clearly see a BTB "halo" around the fourth ring.

I'm very interested to see what Cliff has to say. He is very knowledgeable (after all, he designed my probe and color analyzer) and I'm sure he can reach a better conclusion that I can.

I had a service call tonight to see if my issues with the 8300HD box are "box-dependent". I can now report that the PQ on the second box is identical to the PQ on the first 8300HD box.

My solution was to move a Pioneer 3510 box from my bedroom into my main living room as my main box and to use the 8300HD solely for recording HD. I am not thrilled about having to pay for a second box but at least I can stop obsessing about it. The tech and I were able to see a clear difference between the 3510 and the 8300HD.

Thanks for the input Carl. I will definitely report back after Cliff returns with what we find out.

Lisa,

thanks for the update. were you using DVI in both instances or different outputs/inputs on the seperate boxes/TVs?

I sadly missed my Pioneer 3510 as the PQ was quite simply outstanding, especially since it was a step up from the SA3100, but the DVR features are too compelling. I haven't picked up my 8300, but I'm hoping for a better PQ over my current 8000.

Drew

As a side note, I wish I could swap the Hard Drives on the 8000 and 8300 so I wouldn't lose all of my saved programs. Oh well.

Drew: I used components in both instances.

Phil thanks for more detail on your setup and what you and Cliff have discovered to date. But it just doesn't make sense that a STB with an HDMI out would force the Studio RGB conversion to PC RGB just b/c you use an adapter. If the Pioneer output PC RGB over DVI, that would make sense to me. But I was under the impression that any device (STB, DVD, etc) that has an HDMI output would by default output Studio RGB. Why would it then convert to PC RGB just b/c you are using a DVI converter. Doesn't make sense. Of course it doesn't make sense to not have an option to disable digital audio over HDMI so who knows :)

I created a new post in the HD recorders forum to see if anyone could confirm whether either the InHD or the HDNet test patterns actually contained BTB data. Haven't gotten any responses.

Originally posted by LisaM
Drew: I used components in both instances.

That makes me feel better. I find that the PQ over HDMI is much better than over Component so not sure the results would be the same if you were doing a DVI to HDMI comparison.

Yes, it seems people reporting an inferior HD PQ are using component connections ( the SD PQ is much better though).

I have another problem with the 8300. Most of the time when I switched from a SD channel to a HD one, my old Pio plasma will suddenly filled with skewed lines and have to turn off and on to reset the picture. Quite annoying.

I just ordered a DVI/HDMI cable so that I can make that comparison. Will report back as soon as the cable arrives.

Leegeousa, the only time that I have skewed lines when moving from SD to HD is when I have the box enabled for anything other than 1080i. Even in that circumstance, however, I never have to turn it off to reset the picture.

LisaM, I have the box to output 420p, 720p and 1080i. I have to turn the TV off and on, not the box. Turning the box on and off doesn't solve the problem. Since my Pio does not have the DVI/HDMI connection, I do not have this option.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I never have to turn either the box or the tv off to reset the picture. If I have the box enabled for 480i and 1080i, I get the skewed lines when changing from SD to HD but they go away after a few seconds and the picture clears. The skewed lines annoyed me so my solution (while likely not technically correct) was to only allow 1080i.

I have that too, I think it takes a second for the TV to fit the 720p 480p to the screen. It's annoying when surfing, so I also only allow 1080i and let the box do the conversion...

Well, here we are again, HDMI-->DVI a nightmare. After jury-rigging a DVI cable with an HDMI adapter and getting no picture from 8300HD --> Tosh 42HDX83, I ordered a (mercifully $15) cable from TigerDirect and TADA!! NO PICTURE! This time the box continues to send sound to my A/V receiver and the indicator, at times, indicates that it thinks it's putting out 1080i, but the TV is blank. When I had the Pioneer box (pre-8000), my original DVI-DVI cable worked fine. I assume I'm dead in the water...TW doesn't support HDMI; Toshiba assumes that there may be a chip incompatibility between the SciAtl box and their set; the ONLY possibility I can think of that would rule that out is that I may have a 8300HD with a defective HDMI port or chip (doubting that the DVI connection on the TV somehow wore out in the past 4 months or so...) I'm loath to replace the 8300 because I have so much programming on it already (boy, that new search function unearths programs I had NO idea were available).

I'm just writing in, in case someone has solved a similar problem or has a brainstorm that might help. Just to be complete in my post...I have tried various sequences of turning on equipment, including ensuring that the Toshiba input is set to the DVI before activating the 8300, and cold-rebooting (unplugging) the 8300 prior to trying to connect. Nothing works.

Jay Gould

All - Looking for a little help. I just purchased a Sony KV30HS420, which I have hooked up to the Scientific Atlantic 8000HD using component cables. While the HD signal is coming in, it appears to be a little gritty & snowy, not the crisp brightness I expected from HD. Is this a result of the box? The signal strength? The TV? How do I begin to debug this?

Thanks for your help...

ljaygould:

For what its worth, I've had no difficulty using both the HDMI-DVI and HDMI-HDMI connections on my TV with the 8300.

The only problem I've had relates to suppression of DD 5.1 audio when using the HDMI-HDMI connection. There has not been an issue with picture.

Perhaps you could verify that the DVI input on your TV is still OK (which it likely is) by connecting your DVD player to that port and verifying picture. You could also check the cable by connecting the HDMI out on the DVD box into the DVI in on the TV. Once these are verified, the only remaining element is the HDMI port on the 8300 -- which might have been defective to start with, or became damaged (somehow) when used with the HDMI adapter.

Its most likely the 8300.

Regards.

Jay,

Did your set ever worked with DVI in the past? Could this be a HDCP issue?

Paul

Originally posted by mutell
How do I begin to debug this?

Thanks for your help...

Don't waste your time on the 8000HD. Swap it for an 8300HD. PQ is vastly improved over the 8000HD on both component and HDMI (which works as opposed to the deactivated DVI on the 8000). The box is also much more stable and responsive.

If you still have PQ over component, I would post back but if you having issues with two boxes on the same tv, it's either a problem with your cables or a problem with your display.

Originally posted by EricScott
Don't waste your time on the 8000HD. Swap it for an 8300HD. PQ is vastly improved over the 8000HD on both component and HDMI (which works as opposed to the deactivated DVI on the 8000). The box is also much more stable and responsive.


Thanks much for the response - should I be able to just go to the Time Warner center in Manhattan and ask for an 8300? Also - I heard that HDMI disables 5.1 sound - will 5.1 still work as long as I'm running via the coax or optical out directly to my stereo receiver?

I have the exact same TV and the answer is it depends on your connection. HDMI has a very good picture but disables 5.1. Component probably looks great too and allows 5.1 to carry. Since there are only two component inputs, I have to use the HDMI as I have two other devices that need component. Thus I'm awaiting a fix for this 5.1 issue. Any updates?

If you can, use component until that's fixed...

Originally posted by kristcnj
I have the exact same TV and the answer is it depends on your connection. HDMI has a very good picture but disables 5.1. Component probably looks great too and allows 5.1 to carry. Since there are only two component inputs, I have to use the HDMI as I have two other devices that need component. Thus I'm awaiting a fix for this 5.1 issue. Any updates?

If you can, use component until that's fixed...

HDMI disables 5.1 even if you run the audio directly to your stereo receiver?

Originally posted by mutell
Thanks much for the response - should I be able to just go to the Time Warner center in Manhattan and ask for an 8300? Also - I heard that HDMI disables 5.1 sound - will 5.1 still work as long as I'm running via the coax or optical out directly to my stereo receiver?

Yes - you can swap any HD box (regular or the 8000HD) for the 8300HD at 23rd St.

If you are running HDMI from the 8300 to an HDMI input on your TV, you most likely will lose 5.1 audio from all digital outputs (including optical & coax) and will get 2 Ch audio only. Technically if your display can process 5.1 audio (usually it can if you have a built in HD tuner and/or a digital audio out on your TV), then you should get 5.1 from all outputs using HDMI. However, I haven't heard of anyone doing this successfully.

Note that if you have a DVI input on your display then using an HDMI - DVI hybrid cable works great. You get the same video that you would get over HDMI and the 5.1 audio works fine through optical and coax.

If you use component, 5.1 audio will work fine over optical and coax.

Only HDMI...

Thanks to all who responded.

I don't have a DVD with a DVI or HDMI out. Are there a lot of these on the market now?

The DVI worked fine when I used it with the Pioneer box; I would be happily using that Pio box with TiVo if good old TW didn't REPEATEDLY and without notice reboot the Pio box giving me many satisfying hours of pure black, silent TiVo output. Had TiVo bothered to write a handling instruction for this common occurrance (i.e. "if no I/O for more than 30 seconds, send ON instruction through IR; after 30 seconds and then again after 1 minute, re-send channel information" should be easy with TiVo interface but they don't bother), I would likely have stayed, but instead I got the 8000HD, replacing it ASAP with 8300HD. So, as of last October or so, the DVI connection on the TV worked fine.

Jay Gould

Originally posted by EricScott
Yes - you can swap any HD box (regular or the 8000HD) for the 8300HD at 23rd St.

If you are running HDMI from the 8300 to an HDMI input on your TV, you most likely will lose 5.1 audio from all digital outputs (including optical & coax) and will get 2 Ch audio only. Technically if your display can process 5.1 audio (usually it can if you have a built in HD tuner and/or a digital audio out on your TV), then you should get 5.1 from all outputs using HDMI. However, I haven't heard of anyone doing this successfully.

Note that if you have a DVI input on your display then using an HDMI - DVI hybrid cable works great. You get the same video that you would get over HDMI and the 5.1 audio works fine through optical and coax.

If you use component, 5.1 audio will work fine over optical and coax.

Eric:
I hope you are correct. I just got a HDMI-->HDMI cable and will be connecting it this weekend. I will connect the SA 8300HD to a Mits WD-52525 and it has an internal HD tuner, supports CableCARD and has an digital audio coax output jack. I currently have the 8300HD connected to the Mits via video component cables and the 8300 audio is connected to a Bose 3-2-1 AVR via a optical cable. I want to replace the video component cables with the HDMI cable and retain the optical audio cable & DD 2.0/5.1 audio. BTW, I have turned off the Mits' internal speakers and outputting the internal tuner & CC audio to the Bose via the digital coax cable.

I will keep you advised.

Regards....JL

Good luck. Like I said, even though your setup should work, I don't think anyone has reported 5.1 audio passing through the optical out when using HDMI to HDMI (even if the TV supports 5.1). Maybe you'll be the first.

I'm the new, happy owner of a 42WD7UY. Have TW NYC cable, and just got the 8300HD DVR.

I bought the DVI blade, rather than the HDMI blade, because I read here about the 8300HD issue where if you output HDMI to HDMI, and your system does not process surround sound, then the digital audio out from the 8300HD (which feeds my surround receiver) is disabled. receiver.

Anyway, I bought the DVI blade and installed it. I then bought an HDMI to DVI adaptor to use with the standard DVI cable that came with the blade. Plugging it into the the 8300HD, though, I had a problem. No signal seemed to come from the 8300HD. Finally I saw a message apparently send from the 8300HD that my television DVI port is not HDCP compliant. The panasonic DVI blade is supposed to be compliant.

Any thoughts on what issue is? I've tried resetting TV and box. Could it be I need a single cable that is HDMI on one end rather than DVI on another, rather than using adaptor? Thoughts?

Originally posted by arlodevl
I'm the new, happy owner of a 42WD7UY. Have TW NYC cable, and just got the 8300HD DVR.

I bought the DVI blade, rather than the HDMI blade, because I read here about the 8300HD issue where if you output HDMI to HDMI, and your system does not process surround sound, then the digital audio out from the 8300HD (which feeds my surround receiver) is disabled. receiver.

Anyway, I bought the DVI blade and installed it. I then bought an HDMI to DVI adaptor to use with the standard DVI cable that came with the blade. Plugging it into the the 8300HD, though, I had a problem. No signal seemed to come from the 8300HD. Finally I saw a message apparently send from the 8300HD that my television DVI port is not HDCP compliant. The panasonic DVI blade is supposed to be compliant.

Any thoughts on what issue is? I've tried resetting TV and box. Could it be I need a single cable that is HDMI on one end rather than DVI on
another, rather than using adaptor? Thoughts?

I'm running the same cable (that came with the blade) and a HDMI->DVI adapter into my TH-50PHD6U successfully with the 8300HD. I believe the blades are identical between the 6 and 7 series, and they do support HDCP.

I am, however, having timing problems when my set powers on. I suspect the cable box is trying to hand-shake, but the plasma is not ready yet. The box gives up, and you get the "not supported message". The way I got around this is the following sequence:

1. Turn on the TV (with remote).
2. Wait until it comes up, make sure DVI input is selected.
3. When you see the message about HDCP not being supported (sometimes just a black screen with gray sidebars), hit the power-button on the cable remote.
4. This seems to force a handshake in my setup, and a second or two later everything is working.

I've put this sequence into a remote macro, and it never failed so far.

Best of luck.

Originally posted by Calisto
Thanks again for the great info.

Paul, how did you get a firewire outputted DVR ? I just called TWC twice and both times they told me that they were simply not available (only to family and friends of TWC employees as beta testers.) I then asked if I could have a beta tester's box and the rep, simply said, she doesn't think so. Reminds me of the commercial where the customer rep guy says 'no' to every request. I even mentioned the federal law, but, again, she said ~ no.

How can I get TWC to give me a firewire box ????

TWC doesn't have any DVRs with firewire. The only firewire box they offer is the 3250Hd which you can connect to your 30K. You can't get those at the regular customer service number. They don't even know what firewire is. You have to call Bob Watson's office at (212) 598-7363 to request one.

Is the difference in PQ significant? Is it worth the price tag of the HDMI cable? Thanks!

Word on the street is it depends on your display, if you have a tube, probably not much difference. If you have a digital display, it benefits from the digital source...

Update on Black Level Output

Cliff Plavin is definitely coming tomorrow and I will have definite results after he leaves. I believe we found the problem and some of it results from the day we did the calibration. Cliff was testing some interface software that day and the output of the Accupel Signal Generator may not have been set correctly. This would explain the difference I am seeing and the way we set things up. I am fairly confident at this point the box is acting as it should and outputting Video Levels (16-235) allowing BTB and WTW.

I will update after we are done tomorrow and hopefully put this question to bed.

Originally posted by pciav
Update on Black Level Output

Cliff Plavin is definitely coming tomorrow and I will have definite results after he leaves. I believe we found the problem and some of it results from the day we did the calibration. Cliff was testing some interface software that day and the output of the Accupel Signal Generator may not have been set correctly. This would explain the difference I am seeing and the way we set things up. I am fairly confident at this point the box is acting as it should and outputting Video Levels (16-235) allowing BTB and WTW.

I will update after we are done tomorrow and hopefully put this question to bed.

Excellent news. Look forward to the definitive answer.

I haven't seen what HDMI looks like... but I am running component and the PQ is pretty damm good on my plasma. Huge improvement over the 8000HD.

Is anyone else experienceing this w/ the 8300HD?:

When i press pause on any channel, or after watching and stopping a recorded show, my box defaults back to the SAME 4 seconds of NY1 news, from 7:22 when it was 38 degrees out!?! WTF?!

I rebooted, unplugged, restarted and still this same 4 seconds of NY1 is showing up on my screen. When I change channels and come back it goes away, but if i press pause again, it comes back, and i have to change channels to get rid of it.

It seems like someones messing w/ me.....and i'm not being paranoid!

also, did anyone have problems w/ the apprentice last nite, skipping etc?

BigBlueBong,

You may have a bad box. Definitely don't have the NY1 problem on mine and watched the Apprentice without any problems last night. Although I'm pretty sure I recorded the Apprentice on 4 instead of 704 (to save space since it isn't HD anyway) so maybe other people on 704 had problems.

Excellent News!!!

I got the 8300 on Monday in NJ and have been playing with the display settings ever since. For the first few days I was not impressed, however, last night's Cavs-TWolves game look AMAZING over HDMI. I've heard this before in posts, but it almost seems like HDMI calibrates itself over a few days time and renders a dramatically better picture than the day you first hook it up...

Here's the best news of all: Dolby Digital 5.1 output during the game!!!

Yesterday before the game, I was playing with the sound settings and one of the options is "fixed vs. variable" on my Sony Wega CRT KV-30HS420. Well, I set it to "fixed" and then set the TV speakers to "off" and the game came in 5.1 to my receiver via digital coax.

Now, I finally have a complete home theater sytem...

Originally posted by EricScott
BigBlueBong,

You may have a bad box. Definitely don't have the NY1 problem on mine and watched the Apprentice without any problems last night. Although I'm pretty sure I recorded the Apprentice on 4 instead of 704 (to save space since it isn't HD anyway) so maybe other people on 704 had problems.

can't believe i have to go get a new box again! just got the stupid thing! and i just had the cable guy come and rewire my apt! so i shouldn't have skipping and i shouldn't have box issues! freakin TWC!!!

and yeah, apprentice on 704 was a waste, looked better on reg. 4, same w/ survivor.

ok, now that i've calmed down.....it's been confirmed that they have the 8300hd in brooklyn right?!

i have over 20 hours of tv on the box and more to record over the weekend! and i'm not even gonna be here! this is why the dvr's suck...can't take anything off them. where's my home network option promised by SA?

Anybody know the recent status of 8300s at 23rd St. I plan on going tomorrow a.m. and if they're not there, I'd like to save the trip.

Customer "service" gave me a work order #, but said that TWC doesn't "officially" have the 8300 yet, although he acknowledged that he knew customers were getting them. FWIW, he was perfectly polite, if not all that helpful.

BigBlue: There ARE options for getting the data off the box: I just bought a DVD recorder for that...yes, I know the PQ isn't as good as the HD image, AND you have to take the time to record each prog to DVD (no "batch" Record to VCR but that's ok because TiVo doesn't have one either).

Sickman: I can't believe they're still giving out that story - my brother called CS last week (he's on 80th St.) because he just moved upstairs in his building and 701 and 703 (SHO/HBO HD) aren't working on his 8000HD; they agreed to send a tech this Tuesday WITH an 8300HD (in addition to whatever the wiring issue is)...so the techs are WELL aware that the 8300 is available. Dealing with cable companies is like a visit to Wonderland, isn't it?

Jay Gould

Originally posted by ljaygould
BigBlue: There ARE options for getting the data off the box: I just bought a DVD recorder for that...yes, I know the PQ isn't as good as the HD image, AND you have to take the time to record each prog to DVD (no "batch" Record to VCR but that's ok because TiVo doesn't have one either).

Sickman: I can't believe they're still giving out that story - my brother called CS last week (he's on 80th St.) because he just moved upstairs in his building and 701 and 703 (SHO/HBO HD) aren't working on his 8000HD; they agreed to send a tech this Tuesday WITH an 8300HD (in addition to whatever the wiring issue is)...so the techs are WELL aware that the 8300 is available. Dealing with cable companies is like a visit to Wonderland, isn't it?

Jay Gould

Just to add fuel to the fire--

When I arrived at 23rd St. last weekend, I asked the customer service rep at the door if they had 8300HDs in stock. She told me "yes, we have plenty." After waiting for an hour and half, my number finally got called, and, of course, the customer rep behind the desk told me they were all out of 8300s. I asked him to check, and after a few minutes of back and forth he finally agreed. Then, like magic he appeared with an 8300, and said "I guess we do have some."

It seems as though they go out of their way to make things difficult.

Quick update to put this issue to bed. Cliff Plavin came today and we completed the re-calibration and I am happy to say the 8300 is putting out proper Video Black Levels and not PC Levels.

After calibration today, things look great. The issue of the 3510 Vs. 8300, I would have to say the 8300 is every bit as good if not better than the 3510.

Originally posted by pciav
Quick update to put this issue to bed. Cliff Plavin came today and we completed the re-calibration and I am happy to say the 8300 is putting out proper Video Black Levels and not PC Levels.

After calibration today, things look great. The issue of the 3510 Vs. 8300, I would have to say the 8300 is every bit as good if not better than the 3510.

Thanks for the update and clearing everything up.

I am happy to report that Dolby Digital audio output is possible with the SA 8300HD DVR using a HDMI-->HDMI connection. I have the 8300 connected to a Mits WD-52525 DLP TV using a HDMI+HDMI cable for video and the 8300 audio is sent to a Bose 3-2-1 using an optical audio cable. When I go to channel PBS-HD/713, the 8300HD displays "1080i/HDTV" and there is an "audio" indicator. The Bose displays "Dolby Digital 5.1." BTW, when using the HDMI cable, the internal TV audio (speakers) is disabled and defaults to "OFF." The 8300HD PQ is now close to the CC PQ.

This might be a coincidence, but after connecting the 8300HD via the HDMI cable, I am able to get channels 226,227,228 & 705 on the CableCARD. I had lost access to these channels a few weeks ago. They were always accessible on the 8300HD, but now I have them on both.

Regards....JL

Originally posted by SRFast
I am happy to report that Dolby Digital audio output is possible with the SA 8300HD DVR using a HDMI-->HDMI connection. I have the 8300 connected to a Mits WD-52525 DLP TV using a HDMI+HDMI cable for video and the 8300 audio is sent to a Bose 3-2-1 using an optical audio cable. When I go to channel PBS-HD/713, the 8300HD displays "1080i/HDTV" and there is an "audio" indicator. The Bose displays "Dolby Digital 5.1." BTW, when using the HDMI cable, the internal TV audio (speakers) is disabled and defaults to "OFF." The 8300HD PQ is now close to the CC PQ.

This might be a coincidence, but after connecting the 8300HD via the HDMI cable, I am able to get channels 226,227,228 & 705 on the CableCARD. I had lost access to these channels a few weeks ago. They were always accessible on the 8300HD, but now I have them on both.

Regards....JL

I'm going to turn off my Panasonic TH-42PWD7UY plasma speakers, and check if my home theater receiver accepts 5.1 audio via optical cable from the 8300HD as you suggest.

Thanks for the tip.

A quick question: is UHD coming any time soon to TWC?

ok, is HDMI supposed to be softer than component? because i have to push my sharpness up considerably to match the sharpness of the analog connection. what gives?

Originally posted by illdefined
ok, is HDMI supposed to be softer than component? because i have to push my sharpness up considerably to match the sharpness of the analog connection. what gives?

Sharpness is normally a function of your television set, not of the cable box. Component and DVI connections should have no need for a sharpness control in the first place, but it all depends on how the manufacturer choose to implement it. I suspect your set has a higher default sharpness on component (probably to compensate for crappy component cables, and hi-frequency loss) than on HDMI.

You will need test patterns to be able to set sharpness correctly, the goal being to eliminate false outlines without softening the picture. There is normally a spot on the sharpness control where the picture is delivered without any artifacts, but it's hard to figure out where without any reference.

thanks Carl.
yeah i was very surprised to see HDMI noticeably softer than component on my Sharp LCD. i figured i wouldn't have to tweak a thing with a fixed pixel display and a digital connection; not the case at all. i had to up the Sharpness (to this point never used) just to match the clarity of component, especially on the menus.

don't suppose anyone's figured a way to get dolby 5.1 through the HDMI on this Sharp GD series. it has a tuner and SHOULD decode it just fine...

Picked up my 8300 at 23rd St. today and then picked up an overpriced HDMI-DVI adapter down the street at Best Buy (I know I could save some money with an inexpensive HDMI-DVI cable online, but I'm impatient). I have it hooked up via HDMI-DVI to my Panny 50PHD6UY plasma and the audio through my receiver (which is passing 5.1 no prob). I also have the S-Vid hooked up. I have a few issues/questions I could use some help with. I used to have the Pioneer HD box hooked up via component and none of the following issues were present.

First, on ESPN-HD (725), FOX-HD (705) and ABC-HD (707) I'm getting a one-inch wide vertical strip of static on the right side of the screen and it looks like the whole picture has been moved to the left about that one inch. In other words, the ESPN sidebar on the left side is narrower than the one on the right, the picture lookes moved over to the left about one inch and the sidebar on the right has the inch of static to the right of it. All other channels look ok. This leads me to believe it is a problem with 720p. Whether it is an issue with my display or the 8300, I don't know.

Second, I'm confused about aspect ratios. I generally prefer to watch SD with sidebars/without stretching. If I set the 8300 to widescreen tv and 4:3 with sidebars, the picture is narrowed when I set the tv aspect ratio to "normal". It looks like it has sidebars within sidebars and the picture looks smushed in from the sides and stretched vertically. If I set the 8300 to stretch, things look all right. I think I may have inadvertently stumbled on the method for eliminating the 8300's grey sidebars (I forgot who the proponent of this method was). I guess that works ok, but the guide still gets the smushed-in treatment, which is annoying. Also, does this stretch-compress process degrade pq as the signal gets processed twice (stretched by the 8300 and compressed back by the Panny)?

Third, I get the "Your HDTV does not support HDCP . . ." message when I power on. BTW, the message is also compressed within the double sidebar thing mentioned in my second question. This is fixed by pressing power again on the 8300. I know somebody else here reported this. Is there a fix other than pressing power again? It will be pretty annoying to press power twice all the time (and it will be especially confusing to the GF).

Finally, every once in a while, the box has trouble producing an HD signal. The screen flickers and jumps and splits down the middle and all the colors don't come in (looks like a negative image, but with bizarre combinations of colors). Also, it will sometimes kick for a second to a blank screen within sidebars and then back to the psychadelia. A couple times, it seemed to give up and go to NY1 (which is my power on channel, if that means anything). What's up with that? I don't think I've seen anyone else mention this problem yet.

I've only had the box for a couple hours and this seems like more issues than I should have. Hopefully some of you fine forum members can help me knock down some of these. Yes, I've rebooted; several times.

Thanks.

Edit: also, plugging in the HDMI disables component, right? I think it did, but I'm not sure if I checked this after I realized I had the double-power-button issue.

Originally posted by Sickman

First, on ESPN-HD (725), FOX-HD (705) and ABC-HD (707) I'm getting a one-inch wide vertical strip of static on the right side of the screen and it looks like the whole picture has been moved to the left about that one inch. In other words, the ESPN sidebar on the left side is narrower than the one on the right, the picture lookes moved over to the left about one inch and the sidebar on the right has the inch of static to the right of it. All other channels look ok. This leads me to believe it is a problem with 720p. Whether it is an issue with my display or the 8300, I don't know.

That's an unusual problem. I definitely don't have that on my 8300. My display has a NR of 720p and if you pass it 720p there is an additional picture mode called "Expand" which provides 1:1 pixel mapping (virtually no overscan). Even if I set my display to Expand I don't see this. Could be a bad box.


Second, I'm confused about aspect ratios. I generally prefer to watch SD with sidebars/without stretching. If I set the 8300 to widescreen tv and 4:3 with sidebars, the picture is narrowed when I set the tv aspect ratio to "normal". It looks like it has sidebars within sidebars and the picture looks smushed in from the sides and stretched vertically. If I set the 8300 to stretch, things look all right. I think I may have inadvertently stumbled on the method for eliminating the 8300's grey sidebars (I forgot who the proponent of this method was). I guess that works ok, but the guide still gets the smushed-in treatment, which is annoying. Also, does this stretch-compress process degrade pq as the signal gets processed twice (stretched by the 8300 and compressed back by the Panny)?


I'm actually probably the person you are referring to. I'm a big fan of the Stretch/Shrink method (as I like to call it). Yes the menus and IPG are squeezed but I have NOT noticed any PQ degredation. Of course this also depends on how good your display's 4:3 mode is. What is really nice about the 8300 is that you can have a separate 4:3 setting for SD vs. HD channels so when you change, the box handles each properly (the 8000HD def didn't do this, not sure about the Pioneer).


Third, I get the "Your HDTV does not support HDCP . . ." message when I power on. BTW, the message is also compressed within the double sidebar thing mentioned in my second question. This is fixed by pressing power again on the 8300. I know somebody else here reported this. Is there a fix other than pressing power again? It will be pretty annoying to press power twice all the time (and it will be especially confusing to the GF).


Can't really help you on this one. Depending on your display, it could be looking to constantly handshake. So if you turn off the display or even switch to a different input, it may through off the HDCP check. I fortunately don't have to deal with this. I'm sure others can chime in here.


Finally, every once in a while, the box has trouble producing an HD signal. The screen flickers and jumps and splits down the middle and all the colors don't come in (looks like a negative image, but with bizarre combinations of colors). Also, it will sometimes kick for a second to a blank screen within sidebars and then back to the psychadelia. A couple times, it seemed to give up and go to NY1 (which is my power on channel, if that means anything). What's up with that? I don't think I've seen anyone else mention this problem yet.


Have never experienced this behavior in 3+ weeks of use. Once again, could be related to your display or you could have a lemon box.


Edit: also, plugging in the HDMI disables component, right? I think it did, but I'm not sure if I checked this after I realized I had the double-power-button issue.

Actually no. You can run component and HDMI at the same time.

Originally posted by Sickman

First, on ESPN-HD (725), FOX-HD (705) and ABC-HD (707) I'm getting a one-inch wide vertical strip of static on the right side of the screen and it looks like the whole picture has been moved to the left about that one inch. In other words, the ESPN sidebar on the left side is narrower than the one on the right, the picture lookes moved over to the left about one inch and the sidebar on the right has the inch of static to the right of it. All other



Interesting. When I use the HDMI-DVI cable, I have a one inch vertical strip (no static, just a black strip) on the right on the 1080i channels-all others (720p, 480p) are fine-and using component, all resolutions are fine. On my set, I can move the image over-but then the non 1080i channels have the one inch strip on the left! I just use component-to my eyes, it looks better anyway. The HDMI-DVI seems to have a "haze" on it.

Originally posted by Sickman
First, on ESPN-HD (725), FOX-HD (705) and ABC-HD (707) I'm getting a one-inch wide vertical strip of static on the right side of the screen and it looks like the whole picture has been moved to the left about that one inch.

It's because the Panny remembers horizontal/vertical position and size by scanrate. Just press "Picture Pos/Size" and line it up. It shouldn't affect any other 1080i or 480p channels.

Originally posted by Sickman If I set the 8300 to stretch, things look all right. I think I may have inadvertently stumbled on the method for eliminating the 8300's grey sidebars (I forgot who the proponent of this method was). I guess that works ok, but the guide still gets the smushed-in treatment, which is annoying. Also, does this stretch-compress process degrade pq as the signal gets processed twice (stretched by the 8300 and compressed back by the Panny)?

This what I do, and I set the Panny to "Just". Works fine, but no sidebars of course. Picture looks fine, not much PQ loss.

Originally posted by Sickman Third, I get the "Your HDTV does not support HDCP . . ." message when I power on. BTW, the message is also compressed within the double sidebar thing mentioned in my second question. This is fixed by pressing power again on the 8300. I know somebody else here reported this. Is there a fix other than pressing power again? It will be pretty annoying to press power twice all the time (and it will be especially confusing to the GF).

Finally, every once in a while, the box has trouble producing an HD signal. The screen flickers and jumps and splits down the middle and all the colors don't come in (looks like a negative image, but with bizarre combinations of colors). Also, it will sometimes kick for a second to a blank screen within sidebars and then back to the psychadelia. A couple times, it seemed to give up and go to NY1 (which is my power on channel, if that means anything). What's up with that? I don't think I've seen anyone else mention this problem yet.

I have the same problem, changing to another channel normally clears it up. It doesn't happen often enough to annoy me.

Originally posted by Sickman Edit: also, plugging in the HDMI disables component, right? I think it did, but I'm not sure if I checked this after I realized I had the double-power-button issue.

Nope, Component and HDMI work at the same time, if you did the "double power" trick.

Originally posted by csundbom
It's because the Panny remembers horizontal/vertical position and size by scanrate. Just press "Picture Pos/Size" and line it up. It shouldn't affect any other 1080i or 480p channels. BINGO! Dude, thanks. Follow up question -- it looks like there is more picture than fits on my screen. That is, after I move right to the first line where the static disappears on the right, I can still move further to the right for a while before the static appears on the left side. Does this mean I'm not seeing some of the picture? Should I be using the picture size adjustment to squeeze it to fit?

I have the same problem, changing to another channel normally clears it up. It doesn't happen often enough to annoy me. I don't know; we may have different threshholds for what is "often enough". If it keeps up I might have to try another box.

Thanks for the responses.

Originally posted by Sickman
Does this mean I'm not seeing some of the picture? Should I be using the picture size adjustment to squeeze it to fit?


Yes, it does. On HD channels, you can get away with almost no overscan. I would shrink the vertical and horizontal size until you get the digital noise around the entire picture. Then expand it just until the noise is off the screen on all sides, and add 2-3 clicks for good measure. You should do this on a 1080i channel as well. This way you will get the whole picture, and better resolution as well.

Picked up my 8300 today also at 23rd Street. Promptly went to Best Buy and bought the $30 DVI-HDMI plug. Got home, hooked up the HDMI-DVI cable to my old DVI-DVI cable used with the Pioneer HD box. I also hooked up the digital audio out as well as the two-channel analog outputs to my TV since I don't always use the stereo.

The first thing I noticed is that the standard analog RCA audio out jacks do not work with the HDMI-DVI cable hooked up. I haven't searched the thread, but this is the first I've heard of this happening. The Digital Audio cable is active, as reported, with HDMI-DVI. Does anyone know of a fix for this? No way the wife is going to turn on the receiver everytime she watches TV.

The second thing I noticed is that the HD channels had a blur/fog that was very noticible, at least on my set over the HDMI-DVI cable. The resolution was clearly better, but the PQ was not quite right.

The third thing I noticed was the same issues that Sickman is reporting about the porportion of the side bars on ESPNHD being way out of wack. Left side way thinner than the right side.

The fourth thing I noticed is that this box allows you to stretch and zoom an HD channel. For instance, if I have the TV set to stretch 4:3 channels, it also stretches the 16:9 channels. This only occurs when you change the aspect ration while on a HD channel. If you switch between two channels, the proper 16:9 image is restored. Just odd that the box will do anything to the 16:9 HDTV image.

The fifth thing I noticed is that the 4:3 image sidebares are grey but the picture is also boarded by two black strips. The left strip is about a third thinner than the strip on the right.? This is really annoying. I never did mind the grey bars like othes did, but these black "boarders" are driving me nuts.

I quickly jumped online to see what others were experiencing, and I decieded to hook up the Component cables that i was using with the 8000HD. This solved all of my issues. The image fog went away, 2 channel analog audio workes, and the image on the screen was properly centered. The only thing not fixed are those crazy boarders on the 4:3 image of SD channels.

FWIW, I have a 2 year old RCA Scenium HDTV Monitor. The TV doesn't allow you to do anything to the image over DVI or Component so I am stuck with the grey bars. I'm sure the DVI input needs some sort of calibration, but the component image looks great so it looks like I'm returning the HDMI-DVI connector.

I'll use the DVI input on my set for my MacMini when it gets here.

I'll be re-reading the thread now that I have the box to see if any of these mysteries can be solved.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, good riddence to the 8000HD. This box is so much nicer looking and the features/performance are way improved. TWC 23rd street was a little over an hour wait at 2:30 and the guy I dealt with was nice.

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
...The first thing I noticed is that the standard analog RCA audio out jacks do not work with the HDMI-DVI cable hooked up.

The second thing I noticed is that the HD channels had a blur/fog that was very noticible, at least on my set over the HDMI-DVI cable. The resolution was clearly better, but the PQ was not quite right...

I have my second 8300 in the bedroom hooked up HDMI to DVI on a Panasonic 37" Plasma and I am using the analog audio out without problem. There are several sets of jacks, double check and make sure you are using the correct set for output.

For the HDMI out, there is a significant difference in calibration needed vs. the component output. It will depend on your display also. The end result is worth it. The component out is very good and there is not a world of differences between the two; however, there is definitley a lower noise floor with the digital out.

Originally posted by pciav
I have my second 8300 in the bedroom hooked up HDMI to DVI on a Panasonic 37" Plasma and I am using the analog audio out without problem. There are several sets of jacks, double check and make sure you are using the correct set for output.

For the HDMI out, there is a significant difference in calibration needed vs. the component output. It will depend on your display also. The end result is worth it. The component out is very good and there is not a world of differences between the two; however, there is definitley a lower noise floor with the digital out.

Phil,

Thanks for the response. It turns out I am an idiot. ;) My set has different analog inputs for different video inputs. I didn't change the analog inputs from Component to DVI on my HDTV when I switched from the 8000 to 8300HD, which explains why it worked over component and not DVI. At least now I know that I can get it to work.

Regarding the DVI calibration, my monitor has no manual controls on the verticle / horizontal or other tweaks other than the basic brighness. There is probably a system menu in there for technichans.

Any calibrators in the area want to let me know how to access the tech menu's on a RCA d40w135d or want to PM me with a calibration price/offer.

Thanks

Drew

Posted a few questions about using a DVD recorder with the 8300HD here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5208341#post5208341

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

has anyone found a service menu for the 8300? or the holy grail for us LCD owners: how to change the grey bars to BLACK??

thnx

I apologize if this has already been discussed (I read old posts, and did some searches, but of course may have missed salient posts) but I'm going a bit crazy trying to figure out why some 8300HD functions that I see discussed in other threads and on the Scientific Atanta web site (user manual can be accessed) do not appear to be implemented on the TW NYC boxes.

For example, I've seen references to choosing an "output" mode of "pass-through," which sends the signal directly to TV, how it is received (widescreen, not widescreen, 1081i, 720p etc). I've also seen references to an audio output setting which you can use to address the 5.1 over HDMI issue that has been discussed. I've heard people talk about different versions of the software? Is that the issue? Are we losing out on functions with TWC NYC? A way to upgrade software? Thoughts? Insights? Thanks

The SA boxes come with one of two completely different operating systems: SARA (written by Scientific Atlanta) and one by Pioneer. TWC-NYC uses the one by Pioneer, so any reference to the operating system on the SA website is likely to be wrong.

Just to confuse things though, TWCNYC has distributed manuals for the SARA software. They're useless.

arlodevl,

While there are some setup features that Passport lacks that SARA has, the overall interface and DVR features of Passport are far superior IMHO. So don't be discouraged, we actually have the better software.

While there is no explicit "pass through" option, you can effectively do pass through on the 8300 (except for 480i) by enabling all of the output formats in the settings menus. 480i will be converted to 480p over component and HDMI but 720p and 1080i will pass as is.

The lack of the HDMI audio option is troublesome. The only way around it is to use and HDMI/DVI audio cable, which obviously only works if your TV has a DVI input. Otherwise you can use component if you want 5.1. The only way you won't get 5.1 is if you are using HDMI to HDMI on a display that can't decode 5.1 (most can't).

Originally posted by kristcnj
Excellent News!!!

I got the 8300 on Monday in NJ and have been playing with the display settings ever since. For the first few days I was not impressed, however, last night's Cavs-TWolves game look AMAZING over HDMI. I've heard this before in posts, but it almost seems like HDMI calibrates itself over a few days time and renders a dramatically better picture than the day you first hook it up...

Here's the best news of all: Dolby Digital 5.1 output during the game!!!

Yesterday before the game, I was playing with the sound settings and one of the options is "fixed vs. variable" on my Sony Wega CRT KV-30HS420. Well, I set it to "fixed" and then set the TV speakers to "off" and the game came in 5.1 to my receiver via digital coax.

Now, I finally have a complete home theater sytem...

Hey, that's good news for others on this board. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same. My Panasonic TH-42PWD7UY plasma does not have the "turn off speakers" option most consumer displays have. So I have to live with outputting 2-channel stereo and have my receiver use Dolby Pro Logic II instead. Better than nothing, I guess...

By the way, I am using HDMI-to-HDMI. When I use component I get 5.1 audio from the 8300HD like everyone else.

I have gotten the 8300 and reception seems much better. I have enabled 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions. However, my Sony KLV-26HG2 has a native resolution of 1280 x 768. Would I be better off disabling the 1080i resolution and trying to force the signal into 720p which is closer to the 768 native res? I am using HDMI => DVI for cable input.

Has anyone (I see that Drew had the same problem) been able to solve the haze/fog problem with 8300HD when used with HDMI to plasma display? Switching to component to solve the problem doesn't really solve the problem, it just avoids it.

Some have reported that the HDMI signal seems to get better over a few days. Of course, others will suggest that this is not true and these folks are just fooling themselves.

In addition, I heard from someone that if I turn to channel 999 then I can check the signal strength of the TWC signal coming into the box. I continue to wonder whether my haze/fog issue is somehow related to a weak signal. One thing I notice (that I find somewhat odd) is that I manipulate the physical cable that it impacts the picture, i.e. it seems much too sensitive considering that the cable connection to the back of the 8300HD is very secure.

Originally posted by jmbnyc
Has anyone (I see that Drew had the same problem) been able to solve the haze/fog problem with 8300HD when used with HDMI to plasma display? Switching to component to solve the problem doesn't really solve the problem, it just avoids it.

Some have reported that the HDMI signal seems to get better over a few days. Of course, others will suggest that this is not true and these folks are just fooling themselves.

In addition, I heard from someone that if I turn to channel 999 then I can check the signal strength of the TWC signal coming into the box. I continue to wonder whether my haze/fog issue is somehow related to a weak signal. One thing I notice (that I find somewhat odd) is that I manipulate the physical cable that it impacts the picture, i.e. it seems much too sensitive considering that the cable connection to the back of the 8300HD is very secure.

I have a plasma (Panny) and I have no problems with haze or fog from the 8300HD running HDMI. Since we are talking about a digital signal, manipulating the cable wouldn't change the bits to produce more/less fog or haze. To me it looks like you have some kind of interference, or a ground loop. Try to isolate your plasma set from ground (break of the pin, or get a three->two prong adapter) and see if it makes a difference. I saw this exact problem at a client house a couple of weeks ago, but he was running Component. Turned out to be a ground problem.

Also, since the default brightness is so much higher on HDMI, you have to crank it down a fair bit to get a good picture without any washout. I suggest you utilize the INHD/HDNet test patterns to get it tweaked right.

Originally posted by csundbom

Also, since the default brightness is so much higher on HDMI, you have to crank it down a fair bit to get a good picture without any washout. I suggest you utilize the INHD/HDNet test patterns to get it tweaked right.

All inputs on my Sammy DLP were ISF-calibrated last year. Using those test patterns after installing the 8300HD, I had to turn down brightness from 66 to 30 (on a scale of 0-100) when using HDMI -->DVI. No major adjustment needed for component.

Originally posted by csundbom
I have a plasma (Panny) and I have no problems with haze or fog from the 8300HD running HDMI. Since we are talking about a digital signal, manipulating the cable wouldn't change the bits to produce more/less fog or haze. To me it looks like you have some kind of interference, or a ground loop. Try to isolate your plasma set from ground (break of the pin, or get a three->two prong adapter) and see if it makes a difference. I saw this exact problem at a client house a couple of weeks ago, but he was running Component. Turned out to be a ground problem.


Carl,

I agree on cable manipulation and digital signal which is why I said it was odd and a symptom of something wrong. Not sure what you mean by get a three->two prong adapater - what adapter are you talking about.

Can you point me to a link (or info) on how to do the calibration (I have seen some info posted here, but figured you may have a handy link).

Originally posted by jmbnyc
Carl,

I agree on cable manipulation and digital signal which is why I said it was odd and a symptom of something wrong. Not sure what you mean by get a three->two prong adapater - what adapter are you talking about.

Can you point me to a link (or info) on how to do the calibration (I have seen some info posted here, but figured you may have a handy link).

For the A/C power plug on the plasma. You can pick it up in any hardware store for a buck or two. A common problem is that the ground levels between the cable and power systems are different, causing interference of all kinds.

To do a quick black level calibration on a plasma without test patterns, find a channel showing a movie in letterbox format. Turn down brightness until all "noise" in the black bars disappear and no pixels are lit up. This should get you in the ballpark.

The test patterns on HDNet/INHD are pretty simple to use, there is a voiceover telling you what to do. For the HDNet one (tomorrow, Tuesday, at 8AM), turn down brightness until you can no longer see the "10" in the darkest box, then turn it back up until the 10 is just visible.

Originally posted by csundbom
For the A/C power plug on the plasma. You can pick it up in any hardware store for a buck or two. A common problem is that the ground levels between the cable and power systems are different, causing interference of all kinds.

To do a quick black level calibration on a plasma without test patterns, find a channel showing a movie in letterbox format. Turn down brightness until all "noise" in the black bars disappear and no pixels are lit up. This should get you in the ballpark.

The test patterns on HDNet/INHD are pretty simple to use, there is a voiceover telling you what to do. For the HDNet one (tomorrow, Tuesday, at 8AM), turn down brightness until you can no longer see the "10" in the darkest box, then turn it back up until the 10 is just visible.

Carl,
So let me make sure that I fully understand your suggestion. You are saying that I take the AC power cord on the plasma (3 prong), put a three to two prong adapter on it and then plug that into my monster power strip. The rationale here is that it eliminates the ground level delta given that the AC power cord for the cable is of the two prong variety.

Is it possible to record HDNet at 8am using the DVR?

Originally posted by jmbnyc
Carl,
So let me make sure that I fully understand your suggestion. You are saying that I take the AC power cord on the plasma (3 prong), put a three to two prong adapter on it and then plug that into my monster power strip. The rationale here is that it eliminates the ground level delta given that the AC power cord for the cable is of the two prong variety.

Is it possible to record HDNet at 8am using the DVR?

Yes and Yes. You can also try to isolate the ground at the wall outlet with the same method, if isolating the plasma doesn't do the trick. Also, the ground problem would not be with the cable boxes power plug, but with the actual cable coax ground.

Originally posted by csundbom
Yes and Yes. You can also try to isolate the ground at the wall outlet with the same method, if isolating the plasma doesn't do the trick. Also, the ground problem would not be with the cable boxes power plug, but with the actual cable coax ground.

Got it. The cable coax ground was my first thought. In this run, I have exactly one splice. Perhaps I have a less than good splitter. Any suggestions for a good quality splitter to use?

On the issue of HDMI and DD 5.1, I've come upon a recent article asserting that NO current A/V equipment is sending or receiving anything but 2-channel audio via HDMI. It's HERE (http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html).

Originally posted by Manatus
On the issue of HDMI and DD 5.1, I've come upon a recent article asserting that NO current A/V equipment is sending or receiving anything but 2-channel audio via HDMI. It's HERE (http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback45.html).

if this is true, then SOMEONE on avsforum should know this for SURE. anybody??

My Sony (Wega XBR 960) has the same variable/fixed on/off speaker options as kristcnj's, so I'd hoped I could get my 8300 to output 5.1 with HDMI by configuring the set set that way...but no dice, not even after rebooting the box and turning the TV on and off :(

URGENT UPDATE FROM SA for DVR owners! ;)

I signed up for updates from SA on their website and got this in my e-mail today. Spread the word. LOL

---------------------------------------------------
Dear DVR Subscriber,

It has just been brought to our attention that the providers of the program information in your interactive program guide have labeled tonight's and tomorrow's episodes of "American Idol" as re-runs when, in fact, they are first run episodes. So, if you've set up your DVR to record first-run only episodes of American Idol, it will not be recorded tonight or tomorrow night.

To ensure that these episodes are recorded, you will need to manually schedule each of them again by time or by program name for tonight and tomorrow night.

If you have any friends or neighbors who are not members of the Explorer eClub, you might want to let them know about this.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Sincerely,

Scientific-Atlanta
----------------------------------------------

RE HDMI and 5.1...

I am receiving 5.1 using HDMI. As previously noted, my sony Wega has a setting for Fixed/Variable. Set it to fixed, then set the TV's speakers to off. Keep in mind you obviously still need to run the digital audio cable to the receiver, coax or optical...

There's no telling how long the DVR takes to handshake with the TV on the "speakers off" setting. I changed the setting and shut everthing off in the morning, then came back that evening and it was running as it's supposed to. Andrewj, you should try this... I think the problem is people are looking for an immediate 5.1 output and changing it back once that's not the immediate result. Try fixed/off and give it time...

Re. the HDMI issue.

While I have failed to make the 5.1 work by connecting the 8300 to my Sharp aquos 45GD6U on HDMI, I have been succesful in making the HDMI-HDMI connection of my DVD player and the same aquos work just fine -- with full 5.1 sound.

This implies the problem is not in the HDMI per se, it has to do with the handshaking between the TV and the 8300 (as kristcnj notes).

Anyways, as long as the HDMI-DVI link works, my impression is the result (both video & audio) is identical to kristcnj's set-up.

Originally posted by kristcnj
I think the problem is people are looking for an immediate 5.1 output and changing it back once that's not the immediate result. Try fixed/off and give it time... [/B]

we wouldn't have trouble getting 5.1 out of the dedicated audio cable, if HDMI did what it's supposed to, and gave us full digital video and sound from that ONE cable. it's not even working for TVs that can decode Dolby Digital internally.

thanks Bondtrader, thats a relief.
out of curiosity, what HDMI DVD player you have and how's it look on your Sharp?

to illdefined:

I have the Denon 2910 purchased recently -- and it looks alright on the Sharp. This is my first dvd player (?!!) and it appears to me as fine value at its price range.

In addn. to the video playback, its serves as a terrific audio CD player as well (an imp. reason why I picked this one).

Anyone know if the HD8300 is available on Staten Island?

I called the richmond avenue customer service center last week and was told that they have 8300SD in stock but no 8300HD yet. I dont know if I should believe them though. Half the time, they are completely clueless.

Here's TWC's response to my inquiry regarding the 5.1 audio issue. From their response, it seems they can look into the future -- but there's no telling how far they can see (that is, when the problem will be resolved). At least they appear to be aware that it needs to be addressed. I was afraid they would deny that 8300s were available.

Thank you for your recent message to Time Warner Cable.

In reference to your inquiry we are aware that the SA8300 software does
not allow 5.1 audio to be sent out. As we look into the future we
expect that an update from Scientific Atlanta should be available.

Please refer to our website @ www.twcnyc.com for any future plans,
services and news updates.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause.

If you have any further questions please contact us at
support@twcnyc.com or call our 24 hour Customer Support XPRESSLINE at
212-674-9100 or 718-358-0900.

Sincerely,

Time Warner Cable
Customer Support

Originally posted by franhan
I have gotten the 8300 and reception seems much better. I have enabled 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions. However, my Sony KLV-26HG2 has a native resolution of 1280 x 768. Would I be better off disabling the 1080i resolution and trying to force the signal into 720p which is closer to the 768 native res? I am using HDMI => DVI for cable input.
You're best off letting the box pass through any resolutions your TV will accept. The TV will probably do a better job of scaling than the box will.

Anyone here able to get one on Staten Island yet? I know they got the 8300SD's in, but last time I checked, no HD's yet.

Questions about the SA 8300HD.

1) Has anybody gotten the HDMI connection to work with a Sony KD-34XBR960? There seems to be a lot of difficulty in getting the 'handshaking' to work, and I'm wondering if anybody's tried with this TV yet.
2) Can I use the HDMI as a single connection and pass 480i/480p/720p/1080i to my TV? I like the ability to not change inputs when going from HD to SD, and my TV allows me aspect ration control using a single input now (component). I'm still investigating whether I have aspect ratio control with HDMI.

If anybody knows about this, any help would be much appreciated.

Doug_L:

I have the exact same TV and have had absolutely no problems whatsoever using the HDMI. You may have a bad cable, bad 8300, or worse - a bad input on the Sony.

One thing though - the 8300 will not pass 480i over HDMI. The "passthrough" option is not available on our boxes, only SARA boxes. You will have still retain control of the picture size. What I did was set the 8300 to 4:3 Standard and 16:9 Letterbox, which eliminates the gray bars on SD channels. If a 4:3 channel is displayed, it will have black bars on sides and setting the picture mode to Full fills the screen.

If you have any other questions, feel free to send me a PM.

I am trying to connect the 8300HD via HDMI to a sharp Aquos 37". I configured the sharp for the HDMI input, and just get a black screen. Is there a trick to getting HDMI to work on the 8300?

Thanks

Originally posted by jedwards
I am trying to connect the 8300HD via HDMI to a sharp Aquos 37". I configured the sharp for the HDMI input, and just get a black screen. Is there a trick to getting HDMI to work on the 8300?

Thanks

Don't know which Sharp you have, but I have the Aquos LC-37G4U, and HDMI works fine. I just ran a cable from the 8300 to the Sharp, and set the input to INPUT 4, and it worked. No configuration was necessary.

That being said, I'm not thrilled with the result. I find the colors muted and dull compared to component input. Probably just needs adjusting, but I haven't gotten around to fiddling yet.

-barry

I have the same sharp. I just tried again and it worked this time. don't know what was different about the first 10 times....

regarding the color - go into the HDMI setup menu and set the Dynamic range to "out of range" color is much better.

Thanks for your response, at least I knew it should work.

Glad to hear it's working. Sometimes I think these electronic things are 90% science and 10% voodoo. Thanks for the dynamic range tip; I'll go try it in just a few minutes.

-barry

Originally posted by jedwards
I am trying to connect the 8300HD via HDMI to a sharp Aquos 37". I configured the sharp for the HDMI input, and just get a black screen. Is there a trick to getting HDMI to work on the 8300?

Thanks

I recommend you check the earlier posts in this thread. I remember someone else having a similar problem. I connected the 8300HD to a Mits DLP via HDMI/HDMI and it worked with no problem. The 8300HD's HDMI port is always active so there no need/way to configure it.

Hope this helps....JL

I have a Sharp Aquos 45, and have had problems with HDMI. I've found (and this is disturbingly low-tech) that in order to get the handshake to happen I need to lift the already-plugged in HDMI cable at the back of the tv. Seems like the Aquos plug is a bit more open than spec and when I lift it it makes all the connections. Only need to do it once and then it's fine. Very strange.

Anyone else having pixelation and audio dropouts with the 8300?

I am using a Fusion card to get HD, and I can no longer get TNT which used to be on 87.2 (Fusion channel #). Anyone have a Fusion card that can tell me where TNT went?

87.2 is gone - well, it's encrypted now.

Originally posted by drew138
Anyone else having pixelation and audio dropouts with the 8300?

yeah man.....i'm gonna try and get a new box today, i've already had the service guy come out twice to check all my lines....things are better, but they still happen...i'm seriously considering satellite, if i didn't have to put up $500 bucks for what time warner is giving me for free........

Originally posted by drew138
Anyone else having pixelation and audio dropouts with the 8300?

Very rarely get pixelation/audio dropout. Compared to the 8000HD, the 8300HD has been great to me, so far.

Now that I've had my 8300 for a few weeks, I have had some issues with it, albeit they are minor compared to the performance of the 8000:

- Some blacking out of the picture when changing channels. If I hit Info button twice then Exit the picture comes back to normal.

- After watching a recorded show and erasing the program, the screen will show snow for a few seconds then the picture will return. This isn't consistent behavior, but it always seems to happen after watching a recorded show.

- Occasionally I will have an audio dropout of a fraction of a second. It is nowhere near as bad as the 8000 was - maybe at worst one or two per hour.



On the plus side:

- Channel changing is much better.

- PQ is better. Hardly any pixelation issues.

- New search by Title/Keyword is a huge improvement.

- HDMI works great for me. (I don't have 5.1 receiver though) I can now use the 3 HD inputs available on my set thanks to the 8300.

Some have said their Pioneer HD converters provide better images than than the SA8300HD. Some measurements from this Tuesday's 8 am HDNet test patterns would help confirm that.

Using this technique (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424) I found my 8300HD has 45% higher maximum horizontal resolution than my former 8000HD (1290 vs. 890 lines). But my RCN Cable converter (DTC6208) is better yet (1335 lines maximum). -- John

P.S. It would also be interesting to learn how much more resolution HDMI inputs deliver compared to YPbPr, number-wise, instead of just adjective-wise.

Yeah, I noticed the "snow" after stopping a program on an HD channel. This was when I was hooked up w/ DVI/HDMI. There's no snow w/ component. In case you were wondering........

pdroth 87.2 is gone - well, it's encrypted now.

Thanks

Originally posted by BigBlueBong
Yeah, I noticed the "snow" after stopping a program on an HD channel. This was when I was hooked up w/ DVI/HDMI. There's no snow w/ component. In case you were wondering........

I guess that's another bug with HDMI. Big question is if it will ever get fixed - TWC still doesn't acknowledge these boxes are in deployment yet.

HAHA, that's not really a big question, I'm sure they won't be addressed.

My big questions are:
1. Do we have a HD VOD channel, either PPV or free?
2. Is ESPN really going to put the Yankees-Sox opening day game on the Deuce? Will TWC get the Deuce by then? Not having that game in HD will make me drop a deuce!

Anyone having issues with HBO OD (200) on their 8300HD?

Over the past week and a half or so, every time I try to access HBO OD, the center (4:3) portion of the screen blacks out, the edges of the screen have the gray sidebars and the audio stays tuned to the channel I was previously watching. I cannot access 200 at all.

Haven't tried in a few days. Meant to post this last week but just thought of it now.

Ha!

Watching the Oscars last night and my box decided to crash towards the end of the telecast, just before Best Director. The box re booted just in time for Best Picture. I had to laugh. I guess I’ve been numbed by the old 8000 and its constant crashing.

The good news was, that the box didn’t crash when Sidney Lumet’s daughters were filling my wide screen. :D

Originally posted by LL3HD
The good news was, that the box didn’t crash when Sidney Lumet’s daughters were filling my wide screen. :D


Daughters?!? I thought they were the hired help... ;)

TM

TM:

I'm PMing you a Mac-related question.

Sorry for the off-topic post...

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Daughters?!? I thought they were the hired help... ;)

TM

That makes two of us.

Does anyone know what happened to the channel that broadcast images from many of the DOT cameras in the NYC area? It was on during the rush hours. Can’t seem to find it anymore. I thought it was in the 70’s. Is it still on?

With these snowy days lately, it’s helpful to get a quick view of driving conditions. I’m aware of the multitude of sources on line for these images but I am interested in what happened to the one that was on TW.

Also, any word on more HD channels? I would like to see the other premium channels in our HD line up—Starz, TMC, CMAX. I personally prefer to have these rather than, or before, we get Pay HD on Demand.

BTW - my HBO OD seems to be working fine now on the 8300HD.

This one was one of my "favorites" and it's DISAPPEARED!!! What a loss...even though I can get the cams over the 'Net it was good to get'em by pressing the Favorites button. I'd love to hear what happened.

Jay Gould

Originally posted by LL3HD
Also, any word on more HD channels? I would like to see the other premium channels in our HD line up—Starz, TMC, CMAX. I personally prefer to have these rather than, or before, we get Pay HD on Demand.
Wouldn't mind seeing these on TWC myself. Puzzling that TW can't get its [Edit] own Cinemax HD into the TWC NYC system. At the moment I'm keeping RCN Cable, besides TWC, just to get Starz! and CMax in HD. (The RCN DVR converter, which puts out ~1335 lines versus my TWC 8300HD's 1290 lines, is another factor for viewing network HD via RCN. Looks like the max resolution of TWC's Pioneer converter remains a mystery--unless someone tested it with HDNet's 8 am test patterns today.)

For TWC to find the needed space after dropping ~10 analog channels for its latest HD add-ons, here's a new summary (http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2005/0305/03a.htm) of all the techniques available to cable companies to maximize bandwidth use. -- John

I'm guessing that TWC is hanging on to the analogs for as long as possibly since there are probably thousands of basic cable customers who don't require a converter. These customers are likely very low maintenance (no 8000's to go bad) and the income generated is very reliable. Trying to get these customers to go digital and pay for a converter will not be an easy task.

The funny thing is that new non-HD channels that few people have ever heard of are added quite freely, while the mainstream premium HD channels that all of us want are left out in the cold.

I can think of about 40 channels that I have NEVER watched (or even heard of) that I would gladly give up for more HD if the problem is bandwidth.

John,

Are these vertical lines? If so, that's a lot of missing lines. Shouldn't we get 1920 in 1080i ?



Originally posted by John Mason
Wouldn't mind seeing these on TWC myself. Puzzling that TW can't get it's own Cinemax HD into the TWC NYC system. At the moment I'm keeping RCN Cable, besides TWC, just to get Starz! and CMax in HD. (The RCN DVR converter, which puts out ~1335 lines versus my TWC 8300HD's 1290 lines, is another factor for viewing network HD via RCN. Looks like the max resolution of TWC's Pioneer converter remains a mystery--unless someone tested it with HDNet's 8 am test patterns today.)
-- John

Originally posted by pdroth
I'm guessing that TWC is hanging on to the analogs for as long as possibly since there are probably thousands of basic cable customers who don't require a converter. These customers are likely very low maintenance (no 8000's to go bad) and the income generated is very reliable. Trying to get these customers to go digital and pay for a converter will not be an easy task.

The funny thing is that new non-HD channels that few people have ever heard of are added quite freely, while the mainstream premium HD channels that all of us want are left out in the cold.

I can think of about 40 channels that I have NEVER watched (or even heard of) that I would gladly give up for more HD if the problem is bandwidth.

As I stated in my earlier posts, we lose the DOT City Cam channel, which was a positive service to this community. A good use of bandwidth.

God forbid, they eliminate one of these so called community service channels. The ones that pacify the peoples of other nations, other cultures. Fine, you want to keep these stations, keep ‘em, but serve the needs of this city first.

Different people have different needs. There is no reason why every channel has to be of interest to everyone, or even to a majority of the people. Community service and public access channels do serve the needs of the people of this city.

Originally posted by LL3HD
Also, any word on more HD channels? I would like to see the other premium channels in our HD line up—Starz, TMC, CMAX. I personally prefer to have these rather than, or before, we get Pay HD on Demand. [/B]

Agreed. I think this is the minimum they could do for us -- give us the HD premiums that we already subscribe to. Since I've gone HD, I've cancelled TMC & Cinemax as I lost patience in watching any pan & scanned movies, and only keep Starz! around because Starz Cinema shows widescreen (though in SD) movies.

Come on Time Warner, get with the program.....

As stated above -- the least they could do is give us their own Cinemax (TW owns HBO & Cinemax) in HD!

(Obviously they've got some licensing issues with Starz!, since it's the only premuim channel they don't offer a VOD channel for -- and it's not for lack of Starz! providing that option -- check out the Starz website for the listings)....

Originally posted by Paul Chiu
John,

Are these vertical lines? If so, that's a lot of missing lines. Shouldn't we get 1920 in 1080i ?
Yes, vertical converging lines on a resolution wedge, representing horizontal resolution. (See this post (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2118466#post2118466) for HD resolution details.) Gary Merson measured (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5232916#post5232916) about 1770 lines, via HDNet onDirecTV, a few years back. Someone else here registered 1280 lines with a 1366-max fixed-pixel display a few weeks back.

Not that great, is it? John !


Originally posted by John Mason
Yes, vertical converging lines on a resolution wedge, representing horizontal resolution. (See this post (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2118466#post2118466) for HD resolution details.) Gary Merson measured (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5232916#post5232916) about 1770 lines, via HDNet onDirecTV, a few years back. Someone else here registered 1280 lines with a 1366-max fixed-pixel display a few weeks back.

I just bought a projector with a dvi-d port. I want to hook up my 8300HD to it. I have a dvi-d cable. Can someone tell me what adapter I need to plug it into the hdmi port on the 8300HD? Perhaps give me a link or tell me where I can buy it in the city.
Much appreciated.
Jason

Regarding the very thin black bars on 4:3 - on my Samsung I only get these through component. On composite there are no black lines, but the grey bars are wider than on component. This makes me wonder if the cable box is inserting black bars, but they are being overwritten by the TV's grey bars. If the cable box inserts 2 inch wide bars in black, and the TV puts in grey bars 1.75 inches wide that would explain it.

But why does the width of the bars differ from component to composite, and more importantly what can be done about it? I went into the service menu and adjusted horizontal width, but that just stretched everything including the bars.

Originally posted by jasonDono
I just bought a projector with a dvi-d port. I want to hook up my 8300HD to it. I have a dvi-d cable. Can someone tell me what adapter I need to plug it into the hdmi port on the 8300HD? Perhaps give me a link or tell me where I can buy it in the city.
Much appreciated.
Jason

Many have reported buying their HDMI-DVI adapters at Best Buy on 23rd Street in Manhattan.

Or you can try online: www.ramelectronics.net

I am using this cable (scroll to bottom of the linked page) from Ram Electronics and am very happy with it (fairly thin, good quality, gold connectors). It's more expensive than an adapter but still less than $50 shipped. The only issue with using an adapter is that it can add weight to the cable, which can cause the HDMI side to come loose.


http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI-hdmi_cables.html

I noticed last night that when I tuned to ch. 708 it now says "This channel is a subscription service. Call the following number to subscribe: 718-xxx-xxxx"

Is everybody else seeing this?

I guess any new developments with this channel are a good thing, right? At least they're doing SOMETHING with it. :-)

Any news on the HD8300 ever coming to Staten Island?

Scott: I just turned on the tv and see the same notice on Channel 708. No indication, however, what type of programming one would be subscribing for.

Originally posted by scott_bernstein
I noticed last night that when I tuned to ch. 708 it now says "This channel is a subscription service. Call the following number to subscribe: 718-xxx-xxxx"

Is everybody else seeing this?

I guess any new developments with this channel are a good thing, right? At least they're doing SOMETHING with it. :-)

I check channel 708 daily-- a llittle neurotically :) and I didn’t see that message. What I did see, which was different, was a black screen,. The same type of black out screen that I see on INHD when the Knicks are scheduled.

What you saw last night sounds to me like the arrival of HD on demand channel. I hope not. I prefer to see any available bandwidth go to the other premium channels in HD first.

It’s all about the bottom line. With a pay HD channel, TW will probably increase revenue immediately. They will not see a spike with Starz, CMAX, or TMC, in HD,— most of us pay for it already.

We, the customers, we come second, if that.

Sorry about this beforehand.

I don't have time to read through this entire thread. Has anyone succeeded in attaching a hard drive to the 8300? I'd like to do this, to store high-def material, but I'm not going to purchase a drive just to find it doesn't work.

Originally posted by scott_bernstein
I noticed last night that when I tuned to ch. 708 it now says "This channel is a subscription service. Call the following number to subscribe: 718-xxx-xxxx"

Is everybody else seeing this?

I guess any new developments with this channel are a good thing, right? At least they're doing SOMETHING with it. :-)

Naturally, as soon as I saw this I called TWCNY. Apparently they're going to offer "movies and original programming" on 708, but it will be included with the ESPN-HDNET-INHD package, so if you already have this, you should get whatever is on 708 whenever they decide to put something on 708.

I have to order TWC if voom goes down.

Do they deliver the 8300 for new installs?

Anything I should know before ordering?

I see that the digital package comes with a SD box...can I have that one HD as well in addition to the 8300?

Thanks.

MAB,
Just ask for the 8300HD DVR. Make sure they don't try to foist the earlier poor-resolution 8000HD DVR on you. You'll need to request the extra HD tier (2INHDs, 2HDNets, ESPN-HD) if you want it. Details at twcnyc.com. I see from today's NYTimes there's still a glimmer of hope for VOOM. -- John

Does anyone know if there are any 8300s available at 23rd St today? What kind of wait am I am looking at this afternoon?

Originally posted by John Mason
MAB,
Just ask for the 8300HD DVR. Make sure they don't try to foist the earlier poor-resolution 8000HD DVR on you. You'll need to request the extra HD tier (2INHDs, 2HDNets, ESPN-HD) if you want it. Details at twcnyc.com. I see from today's NYTimes there's still a glimmer of hope for VOOM. -- John I have VOOM and TWC.. VOOM'S HD lineup is great. The only thing for me is still DVR. :D I am really want them to keep going...

Originally posted by MAB
I have to order TWC if voom goes down.

Do they deliver the 8300 for new installs?

Anything I should know before ordering?

I see that the digital package comes with a SD box...can I have that one HD as well in addition to the 8300?

Thanks. I had them installed just in case also.. the HD-DVR works pretty good.. Just make sure like all have said that you get an 8300 I also had the SD8300 an that works well also. The only bad thing is you are gonna wish they had more HD channels..

Originally posted by gregeas
Does anyone know if there are any 8300s available at 23rd St today? What kind of wait am I am looking at this afternoon?

I know my answer is a little late, but I went yesterday at 11:30, and got mine in about 40 minutes. They have huge stacks of them.

Another interaction with TW, another blood pressure spike.

So I took the afternoon off and went to 23rd St with my old Pioneer HD box. The line was about an hour, but thankfully they did have plenty of 8300 HD boxes. I get home, unpack everything, and NO REMOTE!

So I call TW, and they say I have to pay $20 to have one sent via snail mail, or I can go back up there and get one for free. Thanks! So I talk to a manager, and he waives the fee, but I still have to wait a week for the remote. As it stands, I have to scan through 700 channels to get to hi-def. And of course the DVR functions can't be accessed without the remote.

PS: Last time I dealt with TW, they removed my working HD box and installed a SD box while I wasn't here. The next trip, they brought another SD box. On the third try they got it right (I switched the 8000HD back to the Pioneer). This time I took matters into my own hands, and look what happened.

Does the remote for the 8000HD work with the 8300? If so, I can grab the one from my office, which isn't being used right now.

Originally posted by gregeas
Does the remote for the 8000HD work with the 8300? If so, I can grab the one from my office, which isn't being used right now.

They're identical.

Thanks... I'll go get it now.

As usual, I have to go through the annoying voice operated TWC call in number, only to go through 3 sets of "domestic" representatives that knows nothing about HDTV, let alone our mysterious channel 708.

After 22 minutes on my cell phone and 4 different clue-less reps, I gave up.

I will not call again unless it's the Playboy-HD channel....

Naturally, as soon as I saw this I called TWCNY. Apparently they're going to offer "movies and original programming" on 708, but it will be included with the ESPN-HDNET-INHD package, so if you already have this, you should get whatever is on 708 whenever they decide to put something on 708.

I have the HD package and I get a message saying it's a subscription service.

Originally posted by Paul Chiu
As usual, I have to go through the annoying voice operated TWC call in number, only to go through 3 sets of "domestic" representatives that knows nothing about HDTV, let alone our mysterious channel 708.

After 22 minutes on my cell phone and 4 different clue-less reps, I gave up.

I will not call again unless it's the Playboy-HD channel.... Hey I'm for that.. I got it already on VOOM.. Sometimes just a little to clear and detailed a picture for me..

I called about 708 and the lady on the phone said it should be working. Sent a "signal" to my box but still seeing the subscription thing, Had me unplug it same thing. So she set an appointmant for a tech to come out Wednesday. That seems totally strange!! But I let her make the appointment anyways.

Originally posted by Mobert
I have the HD package and I get a message saying it's a subscription service.

They do not seem to have 708 turned on yet.
I was told 2 days ago that they did not have programming on it yet, but will in the near future. The program guide should show what's on when something is finally on-right now all it says is "HD Specials".

Does anyone else have a "subscribe to WNBC HDTV" message on 704? Pretty hilarious. Imagine having to pay for NBC HDTV. The new HD Local Tier - only $9.95 per month.

Never mind - it's gone.

Nope I only seem to get that on 708

HD Special-ly irritating !

Originally posted by bigd86
....... all it says is "HD Specials".

Thanks for all replies.

We will see where voom goes and make a decision.

I picked up the HD8300 yesterday from 23rd st. When I got home I fired it up and went through all the channels and realized that my on demand channels weren't working. I kept scrolling through the channels and realized that I was now receiving all the premium movie channels--showtime, tmc, starz, etc. I am signed up for the "dbest" service and am used to getting four of those channels and the on demand for them, but now I am getting all of them, minus the on demand. Also, I went to the nba package and college basketball package and was receiving those as well. Has anybody else experienced this "problem" or know why this was happening? Thanks.

Originally posted by ilike4
I picked up the HD8300 yesterday from 23rd st. When I got home I fired it up and went through all the channels and realized that my on demand channels weren't working. I kept scrolling through the channels and realized that I was now receiving all the premium movie channels--showtime, tmc, starz, etc. I am signed up for the "dbest" service and am used to getting four of those channels and the on demand for them, but now I am getting all of them, minus the on demand. Also, I went to the nba package and college basketball package and was receiving those as well. Has anybody else experienced this "problem" or know why this was happening? Thanks.

That's what happens when you 'activate' a new STB, whether DVR or not. Usually, it takes about 24 hrs for the box to be programmed with the channel package that you have paid for.

When I got my 8300 last month, it took 24 hrs to lose the freebie channels - I made sure I recorded a couple of HD premium channel movies before I 'lost' them.

When I originally got the Pio HD STB, it took about 5 days to 'lose' the premium channels.


Trust me, you will 'lose' them!

I figured it was something like that. I was able to enjoy a couple of basketball games last night, so that was nice.

The same thing happened to me yesterday. I called them and they "sent a signal" to my new box. Then she had me do a hard boot (pull the plug and count to 10), and everything was restored to normal.

Looks like we are losing FSNY and MSG once again.

http://www.twcnyc.com

F-ing cablevision up to their bullshyt again. This time I have a feeling it will be down for good as they are actually REPLACING these channels with NBATV and CSTV.

Maybe they will come back on... but I am really getting sick of this crap.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I NEED TO SEE MY KNICK GAMES!!!! THIS IS TOTAL ********!!!

I guess getting the Yankees in HD is not on the horizon...

TWCNYC Ch 708 will have some select NBA games in HD for NBA League Pass Subscribers in March. These are in addition to the NBA HD games on INHD.
Ch 708 is a Specials channel for HD content. Programming on the channel is usually available to all customers with HD boxes. However, the program provider usually dictates the distribution. In this case, the right to receive the games is limited to NBA League Pass subscribers.

With respect to obtaining 8300HD boxes from TWCNYC, the only requirements are you must have DTV and pay the monthly DVR service fee of $8.95.

There is no "if you buy this, you will definitely get the 8300HD" deal.

The majority of HD DVRs being supplied are 8300HD, but some 8010HD (a.ka. 8000HD) boxes are in the pipeline too.

If you purchase the HD Xtra package for $8.95 and DVR service the combined price is $15, or a savings of $2.90.

Wow! Is this the actual legendary BW??
You mean to tell me that this essential thread has finally been taken off of the "pay me no mind" list. At last we have an ear. ?..
This is good.
Thanks.
Hang in there with us. It should be beneficial for all.
Or, is this just a, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, coincidence?
:D

8300HD-DVR Pickup?

I just called and a CSR told me that Queens Center is not an equipment pickup place and I had to go to Kissena Blvd. Is that true? Has anyone picked up and 8300 at Queens Center?

If it's really you, Mr Watson. Please give us Playboy-HD or make inDemand channels 301 and 302 in 1080i. This is New York "big blue" city, right?

Finally glad that someone who understands HDTV from TWC is represented here. Maybe our wait is over!

Paul



Originally posted by MAB2005
8300HD-DVR Pickup?

I just called and a CSR told me that Queens Center is not an equipment pickup place and I had to go to Kissena Blvd. Is that true? Has anyone picked up and 8300 at Queens Center?

Originally posted by MAB2005
8300HD-DVR Pickup?

I just called and a CSR told me that Queens Center is not an equipment pickup place and I had to go to Kissena Blvd. Is that true? Has anyone picked up and 8300 at Queens Center? Just go to teh Queens Center you can get either the SD8300 and the HD 8300. I did 2 weeks ago. BTW the Kissena Blvd location does not exist anymore. Great information they gave you ha..

Mr. Watson, while there are larger issues at play on this, what are the odds of seeing ESPN 2 HD or YES HD (or even MSG HD but...)in time for baseball season. I know the latter isn't launched but might you have some inside information?

Hello Mr. Watson,

Thanks for the information and your participation here. If you couldn't tell by the 200 pages of posts (and counting) you are MOST welcome here!!! :):):) I'm guessing/hoping you or a staff member monitors this thread - and we're happy for it.

I'm sure the list of HD channels we all want added is long, as is the list of things we'd liked fixed/enabled on the 8300HD. That said, please don't let our ranting chase you away! :)

TM

WB-11 in HDTV would be a nice addition. Especially considering the MSG/FSNY is not helping things.

STILL no 8300HD on Staten Island. I was at the service center tonight and saw a guy getting an 8300 and before I got too excited I realized that it was the SD version. Maybe that's a sign that the 8300HD will be coming shortly.

MLB season is just few weeks away. Any updates on the possible YES HD? If there's a one.....

Bob

Thanks so much for your post. By this single act, you've told us all that you read this thread. That means alot to us. It was this thread and your office (I hope yolanda is well) that turned me on to HD on TWC (and halted my attempts to get DirectTV installed in my coop). Hopefully this thread is as helpful to you as its been to us.

Best regards

MSG officially off

Yup it sure is. This is totally unacceptable! I pay my damn bill, I'm a HUGE Knicks fan, I should NOT be bared from watching what I pay for

Was anyone else's cable modem basiclly dead last night around 10:30 PM? I couldn't d/l yahoo homepage; tried several re-boots and re-starts?

Everything was find this AM; Just curious if I was the only person in Soho, West Village with this problem?

Thanks

Drew

Perhaps Bob Watson could let us know if the 708 specials channel will be used for this year's Masters golf tournament? In previous years USA Network's weekday HD golf coverage (Thursday, Friday) was available on 708 and CBS took over on the weekends. (A current related thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5294130#post5294130)).-- John