No news. Not even a sniff of a rumor. I think there's been more demand for MSG-HD and ESPN-HD. TWC does what it wants, when it wants.

But what I don't understand is why if TW is part of the INHD consortium
they wouldn't push it along faster. The fact that MSG-HD is a division
of Cablevision ( a competitor of TW ) and ESPN-HD (Disney...not a freind of TW) gives a lot of headwind for all those sports fans that have been clamoring for TW to add it to their hd roster.

Kingston

I'm not sure what you mean by the "INHD consortium." Don't read too much into the fact that there's a TW logo on the INHD website--there's no corporate connection, I'm almost certain.

All it means, I think, is that INHD has a some sort of deal with TW. But the local TW systems are very independent--different channel line-ups, even different hardware.

Rich,

"iN DEMAND Networks' shareholders are Comcast iN DEMAND Holdings, Cox Communications, Inc and Time Warner Entertainment. "

http://www.indemand.com

Kingston

Ah--I didn't catch the relationship between INHD and iN DEMAND. It's not explicit on the INHD site.

But regardless of that, it remains that the local TWC systems are quite independent--even more than the networks' O&O stations, it seems.

http://www3.twcnyc.com/NASApp/CS/ContentServer?pagename=twcnyc/dtv&mysect=dtv/hdtv

New channels on the website.

6. When will Time Warner Cable have HD-DVR boxes available?
First quarter, 2004
Very interesting...

Also interesting, they now mention the Pioneer box on their website.

8:30 AM and Discovery is looking beautiful. The sports channels aren't turned on yet...Rep put it in the computer but nothing came up. She said picture will come some time this afternoon. (Also said there's a rumor ESPN-HD coming soon--We'll see!)

Re: the HD/DVR box (SA 8000HD):
I talked to Scientific Atlanta and they told me (after some pestering) that the boxes were shipping already.
I then talked to a very nice tech @ TWC who said they should be available in early January...

This is all VERY good news. I checked 706 at 12:01 last night and it wasnt on yet...BelB I'm glad you're getting a picture this morning...and a nice one from the sounds of it! I agree with Rich that the mention of the Pioneer box (which specifically calls out the DVI output) is also very good news - it'll be tough for CSRs to deny its existence since we can now point them to their own website! Can't wait for more channels and the 8000HD...

Hey, anyone know if the 8000HD will have a DVI out?

TM

Originally posted by BelB64
8:30 AM and Discovery is looking beautiful. The sports channels aren't turned on yet...Rep put it in the computer but nothing came up. She said picture will come some time this afternoon. (Also said there's a rumor ESPN-HD coming soon--We'll see!)

I really really hope the ESPNHD rumor is right. Their programming is starting to pick up: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/espnHDStory?id=1663915

TM, DVI is "optional." TWC can get boxes with or without. Specs:

http://www.sciatl.com/customers/source/4004400.pdf

Hmm interesting, thanks. MAN I hope they don't get into a situation where they have *both* in the field...that would make it even harder to get the right one when they eventually deploy them...

Anyway, the PQ on 706 was very nice, though the show (a eral life profile of a couple meeting and getting married) was painful.

TM

I think I'll be watching Discovery HD more often. Tuned in about 7:30 this morning and was showing something about sink holes. very nice PQ.

I have the Pioneer box and tried hooking it up to the DVI input on my Sammy 507 but unfortunately no luck...the message on the screen said to hook the box up to an HD monitor, which it was. I think there's something that still needs to happen to the Voyager box to make the DVI output live.
k

Pioneer has been working on the incompatibility with the Sammys for a while--which is why I'm not terribly upset about getting an SA3100HD last Saturday.

I was told by the tech's that the DVI outputs are not all operational on the Pioneers.

That sounds a bit fishy, unless they're distributing boxes with different firmware. As I understand it there's a DVI incompatibility between the Pioneer boxes and Sammys, or maybe between the boxes and all 720p native displays.

whoa ... insects never looked ... uhm ... better.

the compatablity issue is between the sammy and the pioneer. Pioneer is aware and has fixed the firmware but it must go through the the whole testing process and then delivery. It will take time. All TWCNYC boxes have DVI active.

- JB

It's not just the Sammys. I have the exact same problem with my Philips Rear-projection set. It tells me that I don't have an HDTV monitor, when I clearly do.

Perhaps when Pioneer fixes the problem for the Samsungs, it may work for the Philips too.

Anyone else have a Philips TV?

it isnt just the sammies...it is true digital displays in general. people have had problems hooking it up to comp monitors as well, but they know. Furthermore, they are ACTUALLY fixing it. Good support on pioneer's end. Hands up to them. SA would not even give (have to be nice on this forum) two hoots about a problem like this. They would blame it on the display manufactuer. This turns out to be a common prob with digital displays since it sends one less "id" or something to the stb. There is an amazing thread about this where somebody worked with pio about the prob. I will look for it and post it here. I would look now but it is 520 and I am drunk as a skunk :)

- JB


EDIT -
Here is the thread regarding the Pioneer+sammy issue.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=289334

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Hey, anyone know if the 8000HD will have a DVI out?That's unclear from its spec sheet (see attachment). Page 3 indicates that the DVI port is optional, but page 4 lists the available models, all of which include DVI. It doesn't much matter to me, since I prefer component so I can video-switch, but thought I'd pass this along.

I hope they give us the 160Gb version...

--dpc

I then talked to a very nice tech @ TWC who said they should be available in early January...

Was this a TWC NYC Rep?

Drew

Pretty sweet deal at www.timewarnercable.com for $500.00 rebate and 6 mo free service when you purchase a Pio HD Set and get TW Cable!

http://www.timewarnercable.com/dispatcher/products;jsessionid=0000AVEE1XSL15H3IYXIFS0Z0UY:-1?category=11336&expand=Y&rootCategory=10050

I have the Time Warner Pioneer set-top-box with a new Hitachi 57S700. The DVI output on the Pioneer will only go out at 480p. The component out doesn't have that problem, it does 720p and 1080i.

As soon as you plug the DVI cable into the Pioneer STB, the menu option on the STB for display format goes away!!!

What good is a $100 cable that doesn't do HD. Time Warner support in KC has been horrible. The csr's don't even know what a DVI output is, and their supervisor has been dodging me.

Originally posted by drew138
Was this a TWC NYC Rep? Yup. Tech support at TWC NYC told me early January on the SA8000HD.

dpc

Polk Thug -
First off. Return the DVI Cable if you can. It is a digital signal. a decent $20 cable will look the same. Secondly. You must set what output formats before connecting dvi, then turn the box off, disconnect ALL other video output cables, connect dvi only and turn the box on. It will then transmit every resolution you mentioned. It worked fine for me transmitting 1080i and 480p.

- JB

It toook 2 weeks but I received a response from MSG Network regarding MSG HD. Lets flood TWC with requests.

Time Warner will choose to carry MSG in HD if the consumer demand is high enough. We suggest you call Time Warner and put in a request that they carry MSG.

Thank you,
MSG Network PR

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 2:30 PM
To: 'msgnetpr@msgnetwork.com'
Subject: MSG HD

Do you ever plan to make your high definition broadcasts available to those of us who have HD televisions and do not live in Cablevision areas of the city? My area is serviced by Time Warner Cable but I would be more than willing to pay an additional monthly fee to see the home Knicks and Rangers games in HD if they were available. I also subscribe to Direct TV and have been hoping MSG HD might become available there or possibly through the new Voom satellite service.

Thank you.

maybe we should all start calling in once a day to request MSG-HD? at the very least they would get sick of us wasting their time with the daily request. i think it is a total joke that we still don't have it years later.

p.s. is it only the Knicks/Rangers home games (at MSG) that are broadcast in HD?

isn't it painful enough to watch these teams in SD?

yeah, be thankful you're not a season ticket holder. maybe twc will have it in HD by the time either of them get back in the playoffs.

for me, as an NHL fan, i would give up most of the other HD stations if twc would carry MSG and HDNET. personally i think that hockey is the programming that most benefits from HD.

Hey I was just looking a few days ahead in my calendar and see that I have "Check to see if TMC is in HD" down for Dec. 1. I have no recollection of entering that, or what if anything I heard or read. Ring a bell?

TM

There definitly seems to be a problem with the 480p on the 3510HD in nyc. The only way i can get 480p to show is if it is the only format selected. I confirm that 24 on fox is being sent in 480p through the DIAG screen but if i have 1080i and 480i selected in addition to 480p, 24 will default to 480i instead of the correct 480p or even 1080i.

Also, i have a 4x3 samsung. The only time the correct letterbox format appears when i switch to an HDTV channel is if i only have 480p selected. If 1080i is selected the hdtv channel appears fullscreen, i have to manually switch my tv to widescreen.

any help on this subject would be appreciated

Absolutely no fox shows are broadcast in 480P on TWC NYC. You can even call them to verify this. The best they do is widescreen. It will upscale to 480P if the native 480i is not selected. There is no problem with the box.

- JB

Originally posted by mrkaos
Absolutely no fox shows are broadcast in 480P on TWC NYC. You can even call them to verify this. The best they do is widescreen. It will upscale to 480P if the native 480i is not selected. There is no problem with the box.

- JB

Are you sure about this. On the diag screen it says Video Source 480p. All normal channels say it Video Source 480i, HDTV shows 1080i, and ABC shows 720p Also i always knew that fox didnt broadcast in true hdtv but instead edtv or something like that which is 480p.

Also, do you have an explanation for the second part of my post abut the screen sizes?

thx

I dont have the sammy so I dont know about the screen size issue. I did have the 27 inch hd sammy for a while and I always had to hit a button to correct for widescreen no matter what format.

Fox does broadcast certain shows in progressive edtv, just not over twcnyc for some reason.

-JB

Gerry, Which diag screen are you referring to?

I concur, Fox channel 705 is broadcast at 480i and not 480p. I have all outputs enabled on the 3510HD and my display has never reported receiving 480p signal from Fox only 480i ABC automatically switches to 720p and all others switch and correctly report 1080i. You can force 480p by selecting it as the only output as you suggested, but make sure that looks better than 480i. It all depends on the deinterlacer in your display. For me, the deinterlacer in my display is much better than that of the 3510HD so 480i for Fox looks much better than forcing 480p.

Originally posted by pciav

I concur, Fox channel 705 is broadcast at 480i and not 480p.

I can actually tune in to 705 on my SA8000 SD box, and I get a picture-tall, but it goes to accurate AR when I set that TV set to 16:9!!

The picture is jerky and pixilated, but it is there, unlike 701, 702, etc. where all I get on the 8000 is audio.

Originally posted by mrkaos
Absolutely no fox shows are broadcast in 480P on TWC NYC. You can even call them to verify this. The best they do is widescreen.
Since Fox does broadcast its EDTV shows in 480p OTA, who's deinterlacing it to 480i? Fox before it's delivered? Is TWC deinterlacing the signal, probably fiber or cable-delivered to TWC's head end? (Wouldn't attempt asking TWC myself, since I know I'll get different answers from everyone. Heck, two Fox engineers at different stations recently filled ~2 pages of back-and-forth in the programming forum contesting Fox's basic format!)

Anyway, outlined my reasons (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2974495#post2974495) earlier today why I think NYC's TWC is cablecasting Fox's primetime EDTV (plus football, etc.) in 480p. -- John

OTA isnt everywhere 480p either. Some places in upstate new york get it widescreen, but 480i as well. My tv always says it is 480i, then I use the STB's DCDi to upscale it to 480p. either way, it still looks pretty crappy compared to every other channel's hd. channel 714 is the same.

- JB

I hold the "Select and <>" keys on the box for 10 seconds. "diag" should appear. After that you tune to 705 and press the buttons again and go to "hardware" and it will tell you the video source is 480p, at least on shows like 24. If you go to a basic station it will report 480i, if ABC-HD it will say 720p, etc.

This is what makes me think that some people are mistaken. I think some primetime shows on FOX are indeed 480p, the box reports it.

This is theory since I dont have the source code but :

/Open Theory

Any thing that is widescreen is PROBABLY reported by the box to be at least 480p (programmer's lazyness). It shortens code which can lower price. This is just so it knows to make it widescreen. Just like many tv's make everything 1080i widescreen even though it might not be. Easily corrected, but rarely implemented.

/End Theory

Check with your actual device connected to the other end of the box. It will always say 480i (even in widescreen) on your tv unless you have it set to upconvert. This makes the most logical sense (i programmed for several years). Bottom line is that the end image you are getting, at least in manhattan, is 480i. Sucks, but next year they are going to 720p so this is all moot.

- JB

Not sure, but it seems much of this TWC/Fox 480i-vs-480p(?) controversy arose about the time TWC started distributing non-3100HD converters--in however many flavors are available now. They all seem to have various output options the 3100HD doesn't (1080i YPbPr out only). With 480p distribution for its EDTV shows, Fox has the opportunity to use a quality high-end professional deinterlace unit just once for all TWC subscribers. With 480i distribution--seen by tuning to channel 714, PBS Kids--they'd be relying on a wide range of deinterlace quality, or the poor quality that results from upconverting 480i (DTV or SDTV) to 1080i with the widely used 3100HD. That, in addition to the points (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2974495#post2974495) raised elsewhere today, still leads me to think we're getting 480p for Fox EDTV shows via TWC. If someone knows that TWC's distribution hardware, perhaps from Cisco, can't handle 480p, perhaps there's some online literature pointing out this inability for the hardware. Yes, as often mentioned in the programming forum, Fox's main 480i feed to its stations is converted to 480p, 720p, and 1080i by some of them. -- John

I've tried any number of times to tell employess of TWC to carry the MSG signal and not one of them has said they have a way to tally user feedback on the subject. So who are we suposed to call to complain to(er, beg)? What's it going to take to make a difference? Does anyone know the right person to talk to??? Hell, most TWC employees don't even know what HDTV means...

Larry

I am looking to buy the new Mits Diamond 65 inch set and would likely go to PC Richards. I have never bought anything from them before. Does anyone have any feedback - positive or negative - before I make a decision?

Thanks in advance.......

Lisa: P.C. Richards is a very reputable store. I've purchased many items there over the years. I would suggest you research the price first...In my experience they've always matched price without hassle, within reason.

I just got my GWIII and my TWC HD digital cable box. The HDTV channels are amazing but the SD channels are a bit choppy. Anyway to fix that? Also, I can't change the size of the screen when I'm viewing the SD channels. It stays in the normal view. Not that I'd want to stretch the picture but I cant. Isnt there anything Im doing wrong? Also, did anybody else notice you cant click info or the guide while on the HDTV channels. Is there a reason for this?

To shadyridr:

do you have the pioneer or scientific atlanta hd cable box?

Originally posted by droxse
To shadyridr:

do you have the pioneer or scientific atlanta hd cable box?

Scientific Atlantic.

You cannot stretch the picture if you are using the component jacks on the 3100HD. You need to use either composite or S-Video.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
You cannot stretch the picture if you are using the component jacks on the 3100HD. You need to use either composite or S-Video.
So, if HD content comes out in 4:3 format, there is no way to stretch it -- unless you view it via S-Video? But can you view HD content in S-Video?

Also, does the Pioneer STB have the same shortcoming?

Many thanks.

As far as I know... you cannot stretch anything in the 701-714 channel range cause it requires the component inputs on the 3100HD. Everything else... you can only stretch with composite or s-video inputs.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
As far as I know... you cannot stretch anything in the 701-714 channel range cause it requires the component inputs on the 3100HD. Everything else... you can only stretch with composite or s-video inputs.
I'm glad you clarified this. One reviewer of the Panasonic TH-42PWD6UY wrote that "you can't stretch HDTV signal to full screen if it isn't in widescreen format." Now I can see that it's a limitation of the STB, not of the TV set.
Are there many HD programs that are shown in 4:3 format on TWC in NYC? Or is it exceptional?
Also, does anyone know if the Pioneer STB has this same limitation?

no..your tv cannont stretch any hdtv..almost no tv can. The stb has many limitatations. First, everything coming over componant is upgraded to 1080i (hdtv) so you cant stretch anything that comes over that. You must attach a seperate cable for sd or get the pioneer box.

There are no hd programs at 4:3..HD is fundamentally 16:9...what you are seeing is a digital upconvert of the show with black side bars added. Not true HD.

Just because the channel says ABC HD or what not, doesnt mean every show on it is in hd. You will know when you see an hd show.

- JB

1. No HD shows are shown in 4:3. There are digital stations (such as WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, etc.) that broadcast some shows in 4:3 because those programs are not broadcast in HD. Examples: David Letterman, 20/20, Dateline, Friends.

2. You cannot stretch those shows (if you're watching them on the 7xx station). Using Letterman as an example, here's why:

When WCBS-DT broadcasts the show, they broadcast it AS A 16:9 image! The gray side panels are being broadcast by WCBS-DT as part of the picture itself. Neither your tv nor the set top box knows the real picture is only 4:3.

I hope that makes sense. If you want to stretch the picture, watch on 2, 4, 5 or 7, not 702, 704, 705 or 707.

3. You cannot view an HD program in high definition using S-Video. You may see a picture, but it won't be in HD.

Originally posted by jergans
3. You cannot view an HD program in high definition using S-Video. You may see a picture, but it won't be in HD.
I don't have a HD set yet, but I'm curious to know: if you try watching (or recording) a HD program using S-Video, what will the image be like? as good as it would be with a non-HD program on a DTV (non-HD) channel? or less good? Thank you.

I am swapping my current digital box for an HDTV box tomorrow (in theory) at the payment center on 23rd street. I will try to get the Pioneer and report back on availabilty.

On the off chance I DO get the Pioneer, is there anywhere in Manhattan I can buy a reasonably priced DVI cable? I've only seen the $100 Monster cable.

Originally posted by Maurice2
I don't have a HD set yet, but I'm curious to know: if you try watching (or recording) a HD program using S-Video, what will the image be like? as good as it would be with a non-HD program on a DTV (non-HD) channel? or less good? Thank you.

It doesn't look good. The only time I've "watched" like this is if I'm on a 7xx channel, then switch over to watch something on Tivo (connected to the Pioneer box via S-Video). The picture is distorted, usually too tall and thin. If, for example, I'm watching Monday Night Football on 707 and someone wants to see what just happened, if switch over to Tivo and view the replay that way, it's almost unwatchable.

When I record something on Tivo, I use the non-digital station. That is, I use 4 rather than 704 when Tivoing West Wing.

If you're going to watch anything in HD, you need to use component or DVI.

fryKing - DVI is purely digital, the "quality" of the cable does not have any effect. Hence, it does not make any sense to spend $100 for a DVI cable. Just get the cheapest one available online - for instance, at pacific cable or blue jeans cable.

I realize that as a digital cable, anything decent will do, that's why I'm asking. I'd rather pick one up locally than have to wait for shipping, and I don't want to order one until I'm sure I can get the Pioneer box.

Also, I assume I want DVI-D not DVI-A?

I bought a non-Monster DVI-D cable at J and R on Park Row. $20.00.
1st floor in the store that has the PC/Laptops (I think).
I've used it on the Pioneer box...it works fine.

Many films (and programs like The Sopranos) are shown on SD channels in their original widescreen format: on a 4:3 TV a black border across the top and bottom of the screen appears. The Sundance channel (101) and IFC (81) often show such films.

My question is: do such films on SD channels on an EDTV or HDTV set (16:9) still show the black borders of do they fill up the screen?

Thank you.

they still show their borders because they are broadcast 4:3 letterbox. You can set your tv to zoom mode and this will eliminate the borders, but a small amount of the pic will be cut off and it will be slightly blurry. Watch sopranos in hd (except the joey pants up the you know what scene....that never ever needs to be seen in hd..i am scarred from it).

- JB

Originally posted by mrkaos
they still show their borders because they are broadcast 4:3 letterbox. You can set your tv to zoom mode and this will eliminate the borders, but a small amount of the pic will be cut off and it will be slightly blurry.- JB
Assuming one does set the tv to zoom mode and eliminate the borders, would you say that these movies are still "very watchable"?
I am quite curious about that because on my 4:3 set I obviously cannot eliminate the borders and have been looking forward to watching these movies in full screen once I get my EDTV set.
Thanks.

Maurice2, you really need to read this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328207) about "Where did those black bars come from?" This also explains why some movies (those with an aspect ratio greater than 1.85:1) will have bars on the top and bottom even if you watch them on a widescreen TV. (For example, the two LOTR DVDs)

If you're watching a letterboxed movie on IFC (a 4:3 channel), getting a 16:9 television isn't going to magically make the picture fill up the screen. Even if you zoom it, you're still going to have bars on the top and bottom. The zoom will fill up the horizontal area on your screen, but will not eliminate the bars on the top and bottom.

The movies are definitely "watchable" but I personally NEVER zoom or stretch 4:3 content (I have a DLP, so burn-in isn't an issue). I'd rather watch a picture that isn't distorted.

Your questions are not specific to TWCNYC. I'm thinking that you'll find more information in the other forums on this site. Plus, it won't sidetrack this thread from the TWCNYC specific issues.

jergens, it' depends on your set's zoom. Some get rid of all black bars. As far as finding more info elsewhere, you are probably correct.

- JB

fyi: I asked for the Pioneer box at the payment center on 23rd st in Manhattan, and the guy knew what I was talking about, but they didn't have any. I figure I'll wait a few months and try again.

Now, we need to get ESPN HD and MSG HD..I say we have a rally in front of corporate HQ. :)

they just didnt want to give you one fryking. I was there on sat and they brought one out and said they have over 150+ there. For some reason, they don't want to give them out. Say something like you need the DVI support or built in stretch modes.

- jb

really fryking, what can we do to let them know there are many of us New Yorkers who want ESPM/MSG HD? someone we can email, call.. lets do it...;-)

Trust me, they know about the desire for ESPNHD. I'm not saying a petition won't work, but this is a national TWC issue, not one unique to TWCNYC. I'm quite certain that every TWC affiliate and the TWC national office have received an incredible volume of correspondence and phone calls requesting the station.

Why don't we have it? Either ESPN is being unreasonable with their requests or TWC is being unreasonable in not carrying the station.

I'm incredibly frustrated because I can't get a dish or RCN in my apartment. I've emailed and called TWCNYC (and national) frequently. They are working on it and I'm sure they'll work something out. Due to my complete lack of options (since going without cable isn't realistic for me), my only choice is to be patient.

I get MSG-HD via Cablevision and I must say I am totally Unimpressed.
I have yet to see anything in widescreen or 720p. Just totally awfull.
You aint missing anything!
Kingston

And as far as ESPN-HD ....dont hold your breath, because TW and Disney are fighting each other all the time...The bitterness between the two is Legendary...
Kingston

hey kingston,

what would you say MSG HD compares to? FOX SD460?

Kingston, have you watched a Rangers/Knicks home game? supposedly they are all broadcast in HD on MSG-HD.

Come on NYC!
---------
From Multichannel.com

Time Warner Cable is now offering Scientific-Atlanta Inc.’s "Explorer 8000HD" set-top, which includes an HDTV tuner and digital-video-recorder, in its Green Bay, Wis., division.

The MSO has more than 150,000 subscribers in that region.

S-A said it has shipped over 500,000 Explorer 8000 boxes to date.

As I read multichannel.com, I am reading a lot about how Cable Co's are looking to stave off churn from DBS companies by deploying HDTV rapidly. Does anyone else think that the lack of HDTV channels and deals in NYC stem from the fact that most customers can't really have a DBS due to apartments and difficulty in installing a dish?

Just curious,

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
As I read multichannel.com, I am reading a lot about how Cable Co's are looking to stave off churn from DBS companies by deploying HDTV rapidly. Does anyone else think that the lack of HDTV channels and deals in NYC stem from the fact that most customers can't really have a DBS due to apartments and difficulty in installing a dish?

Just curious,

Drew

Don't think so. It's just a TWC issue. Does TWCNYC have significantly fewer HD stations than other TWC areas? Do any TWC areas have StarzHD or HDNet or CinemaxHD? I know that a few have INHD, but I think most TWC subscribers are in the same boat no matter where they are located.

Originally posted by drew138
Come on NYC!
---------
From Multichannel.com

Time Warner Cable is now offering Scientific-Atlanta Inc.’s "Explorer 8000HD" set-top, which includes an HDTV tuner and digital-video-recorder, in its Green Bay, Wis., division.

The MSO has more than 150,000 subscribers in that region.

S-A said it has shipped over 500,000 Explorer 8000 boxes to date.


Giddyup.. That's the one I'm waiting for!

TM

I'm not impressed. TWC brought me the wrong box (3100 instead of pioneer), even though I specified I wanted the 3510 on the order. I have another appointment next week. Yes, I know this has happened to many others.

I can't use any stretch modes with the 3100 through component. Does anyone know if it's different for DVI?

On another matter, not much worth watching is in HD. The networks broadcast very little in HD and I don't watch that much network tv anyway. So far, all the sports I've seen are
4x3, except for the SEC title game Sat night, which was beautiful and only made me want more. ABC did the OU/KState game in 4x3. Discovery and PBS are beautiful to behold, but their shows just aren't doing it for me. HBO and SHO are nice, but that's not a lot of programming.

Hey does anyone know if the 3510HD box will work on a Pioneer Plasma 503CMX (5002 card) using DVI?

i believe (not sure) that there are no stretch modes via dvi. with plasma this may be an issue for you. I would check in the plasma forum for more details as this is not just a twcnyc issue.

- JB

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Hey does anyone know if the 3510HD box will work on a Pioneer Plasma 503CMX (5002 card) using DVI?

No it does not. The DVI port on the 5002 can not handle video resolution (480p, 720p, or 1080i). It will only recognize and process PC signals.

Originally posted by Sickman
I'm not impressed. TWC brought me the wrong box (3100 instead of pioneer), even though I specified I wanted the 3510 on the order. I have another appointment next week. Yes, I know this has happened to many others. FYI, the way I got my Pioneer 3510 was by going into the TWC customer service center on 23rd St. (just off 5th Ave.) and asking very nicely for one (and claiming I needed DVI). They were ready to give me one, but it turns out that they couldn't (since I live in Brooklyn, and there are apparently different batches of boxes), but the nice lady typed precisely what I wanted into the order screen for a service call, and the TWC tech showed up with the Pioneer at my door.

Hope this helps...

dpc

Bah! Oh well... cause I just successfully got my hands on a Pioneer HD box as well. =(

Hrmmmmgh.

Originally posted by jergans
Don't think so. It's just a TWC issue. Does TWCNYC have significantly fewer HD stations than other TWC areas? Do any TWC areas have StarzHD or HDNet or CinemaxHD? I know that a few have INHD, but I think most TWC subscribers are in the same boat no matter where they are located. Not really. Looks like TWC is more aggressively rolling out HD offering in markets where DBS is more of a threat:

"Fox Sports Net plunged into the HDTV business last week with Time Warner Cable, launching high-definition programming across six networks that will cover 96 games over the next several months.

The rollout marked FSN's first foray into HDTV production for any of its regional sports networks. And it marks the largest mass deployment of regional HD content in the cable industry.

The Fox Sports Net regionals producing HDTV content: Fox Sports Net North, Fox Sports Net South, Fox Sports Net Southwest, Fox Sports Net West, West 2 and Sunshine Network.

The content will be seen on Time Warner systems serving Houston, San Antonio, Austin and Waco, Texas; Los Angeles, San Diego and Desert Cities, Calif.; Milwaukee and Green Bay, Wis.; Greensboro and Raleigh-Durham N.C.; Hawaii; Memphis; Minneapolis; and South Carolina."
(from multichannel.com)

dpc

Does anyone know if the BCS bowl games will be broadcast widescreen and HD?

Originally posted by Sickman
On another matter, not much worth watching is in HD. The networks broadcast very little in HD


Umm, not sure which networks you're watching, but the big 3 broadcast *more* of their primetime schedule in HD than not. In fact, CBS is close to 100% from 8-11pm. I know you said you don't watch much network TV, but your statement was not accurate IMO.

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Umm, not sure which networks you're watching, but the big 3 broadcast *more* of their primetime schedule in HD than not. In fact, CBS is close to 100% from 8-11pm. I know you said you don't watch much network TV, but your statement was not accurate IMO.

TM I only got it Saturday, and it is true I don't watch much prime time network television anyway, but Saturday night's ABC football game was not HD and Sunday's NFL football (Fox and CBS), Simpsons and 60 minutes were not HD. Am I doing something wrong or missing something here? I thought HD meant it had to fill the screen. When I see bars on the side, I interpret that as non-HD. Am I wrong there?

Well... of course I tried the DVI port on the 5002 and the Pioneer... and I got the connect this to a HDTV set message. Blah.

But I did try out my SA8000 DVR and the two-tuner capability is SWEET. Now I am in anticipation for the SA8000HD. Does anyone know if the hi-def TWC DVR have the two tuner capability as well?

Also would the SA Hi-Def box work with DVI with the 5002? Assuming this STB box is only a few months away... i might just live with a component switcher for the time being.

I think I read that 2-tuners are standard in the 8000HD, (just as they are in the SD model). You can check out the Scientific Altanta website.

I live in midtown Manhattan.
The TWC cable coming out of the wall has already been split to accomodate an SDTV set and RoadRunner.
I am about to get a second TV (ED), which means, I think, that the cable connected to the SDTV set will have to be split to accomodate it.

Should I expect impeccable reception from both TVs, or will the quality of the reception be impaired by the splitting of the cable? (If so, is there anything that can be done to offset it?)

Thank you.

Originally posted by Sickman
I only got it Saturday, and it is true I don't watch much prime time network television anyway, but Saturday night's ABC football game was not HD and Sunday's NFL football (Fox and CBS), Simpsons and 60 minutes were not HD. Am I doing something wrong or missing something here? I thought HD meant it had to fill the screen. When I see bars on the side, I interpret that as non-HD. Am I wrong there?


Two things. First, you are correct: 'Real' HD will fill a 16x9 screen from left to right (it may not from top to bottom if the AR is wider than 16x9). The 701-713 channel slots will show SD programming (along with the usual 4x3 AR) upconverted if there is no HD version...which in some cases (NBC) results in noticeably higher PQ than 'normal' SD, but still obviously inferior to HD.

Second, as for football, it seems that only 1 game/day/network is in HD. May have to do with how many HD trucks are out there...can anyone who knows more about this chime in?

TM

Maurice, I've got 3 regular boxes, an HD box, a PVR and a Cable modem hooked up to mine, with no problems. If you have the same strength signal coming in from the street you should be fine.

Originally posted by anthonymoody

Second, as for football, it seems that only 1 game/day/network is in HD. May have to do with how many HD trucks are out there...can anyone who knows more about this chime in?

TM uh, that's not going to be very cool on January 1 when each network will carry multiple bowl games or during early round NFL playoff weekends. Is there a resource to find out in advance which games will be HD?

Monday night football is always in HD and most nbc (might be cbs) games are. I don't know why this weekend it wasnt. Also espn games are HD we just don't get them. I doubt the networks are sharing "trucks".

- JB

CBS is HD on one NFL game a week(whichever one Greg Gumball and Phil Simms are doing). Because of how poor the Jets and Giants are doing, we seldom get the #1 game here in NYC.

Originally posted by Sickman
uh, that's not going to be very cool on January 1 when each network will carry multiple bowl games or during early round NFL playoff weekends. Is there a resource to find out in advance which games will be HD?

ABC hasn't broadcast a single college game in HD this season. No announcement yet on the BCS games.

I think ESPN and ABC share trucks, so it's possible that both ABC playoff games will be in HD. All the Fox games will be in Fox Digital Widescreen. I'm not sure if all CBS playoff games will be in HD, but at least one each weekend will be. CBS has at least two trucks, since they did an SEC game and an NFL game in HD each week, so it's certainly possible for them to broadcast all of the AFC playoff games in HD.

Take a look at this forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?daysprune=30&forumid=34) for HDTV programming info.

Originally posted by jergans
ABC hasn't broadcast a single college game in HD this season. No announcement yet on the BCS games.

I think ESPN and ABC share trucks, so it's possible that both ABC playoff games will be in HD. All the Fox games will be in Fox Digital Widescreen. I'm not sure if all CBS playoff games will be in HD, but at least one each weekend will be. CBS has at least two trucks, since they did an SEC game and an NFL game in HD each week, so it's certainly possible for them to broadcast all of the AFC playoff games in HD.

WTF? Ok, I'm new to this HD thing and maybe I haven't searched the forum properly, but this sounds like there are only 5 or 6 HD trucks in the whole damn country? That just sounds crazy to me. What are the networks doing with all their money? Paying the Friends? C'mon, buy some more HD trucks for what really matters!

What's Fox Digital Widescreen?

I'm really gonna flip if the Rose Bowl isn't HD. I mean, who wants to watch Michigan spank the Trojan crybabys in standared definition?

Don't mean to rant or take this out on you fine people here at the AVS Forum, but this is very disappointing, and I would wager I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Originally posted by Sickman
WTF? Ok, I'm new to this HD thing and maybe I haven't searched the forum properly, but this sounds like there are only 5 or 6 HD trucks in the whole damn country? That just sounds crazy to me. What are the networks doing with all their money? Paying the Friends? C'mon, buy some more HD trucks for what really matters!

What's Fox Digital Widescreen?

I'm really gonna flip if the Rose Bowl isn't HD. I mean, who wants to watch Michigan spank the Trojan crybabys in standared definition?

Don't mean to rant or take this out on you fine people here at the AVS Forum, but this is very disappointing, and I would wager I'm not the only one who feels this way.

You're not the only one who feels that way, but things are getting better. Eventually the networks will have the resources to broadcast every NFL game in HD, but it takes time and money to acquire the necessary resources. If you were under the impression that every sporting event was broadcast in HD, you were seriously mistaken. You should have done more research prior to investing in an HD set if this is a major issue.

If you were a shareholder of Disney, would you want them to spend a boatload of money on HD equipment for ABC and ESPN? How about if I told you that at present there are NO NIELSEN RATINGS FOR HD OR DIGITAL STATIONS? So, ABC/CBS/NBC/Fox is investing its money and it doesn't even know if it's helping ratings.

I love HD and I LOVE sports, but I've learned to be patient. We're early adopters and things aren't perfect right now. But I'm much happier watching 2 games in HD a week, plus one in FOX Widescreen (FOX does not broadcast in high definition. It broadcasts up to 480p. HD is either 720P or 1080i. Fox will broadcast in HD beginning next fall) than I would be if I had to watch everything in SD.

Plus, nearly every non-news (60 minutes, 20/20, etc) prime time show is broadcast in HD. I'm happy with the networks.

I'm PISSED at TWC. More networks are being added all the time (ESPNHD, StarzHD, INHD, CinemaxHD, etc) and TWC gives us an incredibly poor selection of HD channels.

Originally posted by jergans
If you were under the impression that every sporting event was broadcast in HD, you were seriously mistaken. You should have done more research prior to investing in an HD set if this is a major issue.
No, I knew it wouldn't be every sporting event, but I guess I kinda thought NFL football was a big deal and would get some first class technological attention.

If you were a shareholder of Disney, would you want them to spend a boatload of money on HD equipment for ABC and ESPN? I don't claim to know the cost of one of these trucks, but Disney spent $151 million on capital expenditures for their Media Networks division in 2002 (down from $207 million in 2001); over $1billion each year for the company as a whole. How much would, say, 5-10 of those trucks set them back? A rounding error, probably. Also, I think there'd be some return on that investment. For example, on Saturday night I primarily watched LSU blow out Georgia (yawn) on CBS because it was HD. I was much more interested in seeing undefeated OU get beat on ABC, but it was SD.

Sickman, this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=336095) over in the programming forum is exactly on point with what we've been discussing here.

I believe they do share trucks b/c they don't own them...3rd parties generally do, and they're leased for productions - especially in these still relatively early days.

I recall reading that the total fleet in the country recently went up, I think from 6 to 12 to 15 or something like that (I guess these numbers are out of date by now...but I do recall being surprised at how *low* the number was!). Also, don't forget that I believe it takes >1 truck to fully cover a game. That said, hang out in the HDTV programming forum...there are guys there who know a heck of a lot more about this than I do!!!

TM

Originally posted by jergans
Sickman, this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=336095) over in the programming forum is exactly on point with what we've been discussing here. Thanks. I knew I couldn't be alone, although some of those forums have now degenerated into a BCS debate.

I am on my second Pioneer 3510 box and am still having a problem. Curious as to whether anyone else is experiencing the same thing. At least 3-4 times per week, my box loses both the data guide and some channels. I have to reboot in order to bring back both. The first box was replaced about 2 weeks ago. That box had gotten so bad that I was rebooting 10-20 times per week. The new box is better but I am still losing channels, etc... Is anyone else experiencing this problem? TWC has tested my signal strength and says it is fine. The picture quality is good, too...

What do you mean by "losing channels"?

Hi,

I'm ordering TWC and need to know what box to ask for.There are quite a few mentioned in earlier posts and not sure which is which..

I would hate to have the tech come with the wrong box,thanks so much.

I have a Mitsubishi HDTV 65" model 65809 with component inputs for HD and Digital.

I live in Brooklyn NY 11209 which is BayRidge.

Thanks so much:)

Debra

PS: I will be ordering the HD package or whatever it's called.

"Losing channels" means that, when I move from 704 to 705, all I get is a blank screen. Sometimes I can get the channel back by going to 706 and then going back to 705. More often, I can't tune in 705 until I reboot the box.

FWIW I had to reboot my 3100HD a couple weeks ago b/c it'd lost all the program guide info. However, all the channels tuned in fine during this...

TM

Originally posted by LisaM
"Losing channels" means that, when I move from 704 to 705, all I get is a blank screen. Sometimes I can get the channel back by going to 706 and then going back to 705. More often, I can't tune in 705 until I reboot the box.

Strange. I have the Pioneer 3510, and have had it for as long as TWC has offered it, and I have never encountered this particular problem.
Sounds like a bad box, even though I believe you said this is not your first one:(

Little help? I got the Pioneer 3510 HD box yesterday to replace the SA3100 TWCNYC brought me last week. I tried to use the DVI out to my Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY plasma with the DVI blade. No joy. I get the following message on Input 1 on my plasma:

"Please connect the set-top to an HDTV set. See the operating instructions."

Now, we know that this is an HDTV set, so why the message and no DVI signal? The 3510 works fine through component. Presumably, the box is sending some kind of signal becuase the message is displayed. Similarly, the plasma must be reading something because the message shows up.

I've tried shutting everything down and rebooting, etc. I haven't called TWC yet (which I'll do tomorrow, but I'm not optimistic).

The TWC tech said the DVI-out on the box is disabled and he had seen this message before. He didn't seem to know how the problem had been resolved in these prior experiences. When I ordered the box, TWC said it was DVI enabled.

I'm baffled. I specifically wanted the 3510 to use the DVI. Does anyone else have a pioneer 3510 hooked up through DVI to a Panasonic commercial plasma? Anyone else have this problem on a Panasonic or any other set?

Little help? I got the Pioneer 3510 HD box yesterday to replace the SA3100 TWCNYC brought me last week. I tried to use the DVI out to my Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY plasma with the DVI blade. No joy. I get the following message on Input 1 on my plasma:

"Please connect the set-top to an HDTV set. See the operating instructions."

Now, we know that this is an HDTV set, so why the message and no DVI signal? The 3510 works fine through component. Presumably, the box is sending some kind of signal becuase the message is displayed. Similarly, the plasma must be reading something because the message shows up.

I've tried shutting everything down and rebooting, etc. I haven't called TWC yet (which I'll do tomorrow, but I'm not optimistic).

The TWC tech said the DVI-out on the box is disabled and he had seen this message before. He didn't seem to know how the problem had been resolved in these prior experiences. When I ordered the box, TWC said it was DVI enabled.

I'm baffled. I specifically wanted the 3510 to use the DVI. Does anyone else have a pioneer 3510 hooked up through DVI to a Panasonic commercial plasma? Anyone else have this problem on a Panasonic or any other set?

Yes, I had the exact same problem on my Philips 60PP9502 rear projection set.

No idea what the problem is though, but some HDTVs just aren't working with the 3510's DVI connection.

Originally posted by MikeNY718
Yes, I had the exact same problem on my Philips 60PP9502 rear projection set.

No idea what the problem is though, but some HDTVs just aren't working with the 3510's DVI connection. Did you find a solution? I only have one component input and really need the DVI to avoid having to switch through my receiver (don't want to buy 2 extra component cables).

the problem (which has been discussed in the RPTV forum) with the DVI is being resolved by pioneer. Supposedly they already have the code written and it is in the testing phase. It may or may not work depending on the display currently. If you search in the RPTV forum you will find a large thread regarding this and I believe I posted a link to it already in this thread. I will double check later when I have more time and edit this post.

- JB

Sickman:

I am in the same boat. Got the Pioneer box to use DVI and its a no-go. I have a Pioneer 503CMX and I was told DVI does not work on the 5002 video card for my plasma. I think it works with the aurora card... however the aurora card does not pass the signal through DVI natively... so it kinda defeats the benefit of DVI.

I am still glad I got the Pioneer box though... i hear its a much better box anyways.

Oh... and good luck dealing with Time Warner. They will just say they dont support DVI. Its not in any of their documentation.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Sickman:

Oh... and good luck dealing with Time Warner. They will just say they dont support DVI. Its not in any of their documentation.

Not quite correct. TWCNYC's web site does refer to the 3510's DVI output feature. It is not disabled, but it is incompatible with many but not all DVI-equipped TVs. The 3510's DVI incompatibility problem has been thoroughly aired in several threads, especially Error message when connecting, etc. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=289334).

Is the 3510 the latest box for HDTV's with only component imputs?

I have a 3510 hooked up to a Fujitsu plasma. When the cable (TWC)company first came out the dvi didn't work and they were going to sent another tech out. I began fooling around and found a menu item on the plasma dispay that needed to be set to accept the DVI input in place of one of the RGB inputs. All began working.

Originally posted by Blue Rain
Is the 3510 the latest box for HDTV's with only component imputs?

The box has DVI, Component, and Composite video outs. No coax.

Finally, a answer!

Thankyou so much MrKaos!

Blue

Right now I have 2 cable boxes hooked up to my TV, SA8000 for DVR and SA3100HD for HD. Im sick of having to use 2 boxes and not being able to record HD material. I have heard that the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD has been released by TW in Minnesota. Anyone heard anything about when the 8000HD will be coming to NYC.

Officially it's 1st Quarter, 2004. Someone reported that a CSR said the first week of 2004, but I suspect that s/he was mistaken or mis-heard.

Not a lot of new news to report around here lately since we all got Discovery HD, so I thought I would add that TWC in CA is adding INHD and, get this, HDNET this month! This is the first I've heard of any TWC division adding HDNET.

Here is the thread....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328620

Very interesting. Looks like it's time for us to start our Petition!

Drew

Upon further research, it looks like this is a corporate deal. Now I am psyched!

http://www.hd.net/2003-prarchive/2003-12-16-01.html

---------------------------
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contacts:
Time Warner Cable HDNet
Keith Cocozza Mark Cuban
keith.cocozza@twcable.com mark@hd.net
203-351-2039

Time Warner Cable Adds HDNet And HDNet Movies To High-Def Lineup

Bolsters Robust High Definition Offering and Helps to Create New HD Destination Tier for Time Warner Cable Customers

STAMFORD, CT, December 16, 2003 -- Time Warner Cable today announced a carriage agreement with HDNet and HDNet Movies for inclusion in its high definition programming line up. The two channels will accompany iN DEMAND's two INHD channels on a high definition destination tier, available to Time Warner Cable HD customers at an incremental retail cost.

Time Warner Cable will continue to deliver its robust HD basic lineup at no additional charge, which includes high definition programming from ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, WB, UPN, HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater and select Fox Sports regional sports networks.

"HDNet's collection of live, original and licensed high definition programming is a perfect addition to our burgeoning HD offering," said Chuck Ellis, executive vice president and chief marketing officer for Time Warner Cable. "Creating a premium HDTV tier is the next logical step as we continue to deliver on our promise to provide customers with the best in choice, value and control available for high definition programming."

Launched in September of 2001, HDNet became the world's first national television network broadcasting all of its programming in spectacular 1080i high definition. HDNet produces and televises more original high definition than any other domestic network. Original HDNet series include "HDNet World Report," "Across America," "HDNet Concert Series," "True Music," the "NHL on HDNet," the "MLS on HDNet," and "Higher Definition."

"With more original programming shot in HD than any other network, and with more movies premiering in HD (and in their Original Aspect Ratio) than any other network, we're excited to be partnering with Time Warner Cable, to bring HDNet and HDNet Movies to their HD customers," said Mark Cuban, president and co-founder of HDNet.

Time Warner Cable is growing its high-definition programming line-up by expanding the number of value-added HD channels that have standard definition counterparts already being offered, and by adding new premium high-definition services. Time Warner Cable is not charging additional fees for its value-added HD programming. It will offer premium HD services in a destination tier at an incremental retail cost. Currently, Time Warner Cable carries more high definition programming than any other cable operator.

Time Warner Cable currently makes high-definition television capable set-top boxes available to 98 percent of its customer base. Time Warner Cable owns and manages cable systems serving 10.9 million subscribers in 27 states, which include some of the most technologically advanced, best-clustered cable systems in the country with more than 75% of the Company's customers in systems of 300,000 subscribers or more. Utilizing a fully upgraded advanced cable network and a steadfast commitment to providing consumers with choice, value and world-class customer service, Time Warner Cable is an industry leader in delivering advanced products and services such as video on demand, high definition television, high-speed data, wireless home networking and digital video recorders. Time Warner Cable is a subsidiary of Time Warner Inc.

HDNet, (www.hd.net), the leader in high definition broadcasting, produces and televises more hours of original HDTV sports, entertainment and news programming each week than any other network. Original HDNet series include the groundbreaking HDNet World Report, Across America, True Music, HDNet Concert Series, Bikini Destinations, Get Out, and Higher Definition - Celebrity Interviews. Licensed programming includes series from Paramount, Warner Brothers and Sony. HDNet Movies broadcasts 24/7 full-length feature films from Warner Bros, New Line, Paramount, MGM, Buena Vista, Lions Gate, Artisan and Sony Pictures Television. HDNet Movies also features movies produced and finished in true 1080i high-definition. Live HDNet sports productions include National Hockey League games, Major League Soccer games, The HDNet Horse Racing Challenge, CART auto racing, Boxing Explosion, and college football and basketball games. Co-founded by Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks, and General Manager Philip Garvin, the HDNet networks are also available on Charter Communications, Insight Communications, DIRECTV, DISH Network, and several NCTC cable affiliate companies.

This would really be great. I saw HDNet at my parents' home in Florida and the sports broadcasts are really great.

Interesting that CA has The WB and we still do not.

Hopefully, HDNet will be the first of several new channels added....soon.

I'm really starting to hate TWC-NYC... Why are we so behind?

This has nothing to do with high def but it might be a DISASTER for twc-nyc sports fans. There is a scroll running on the weather channel that says basically tht cablevision has denied a TWC-NYC request to renew MSG and FSNY and the contract expires Jan. 1/2004. It also said if it's not resolved the stations would disappear from the cable lineup and we would all get a $2 amonth reimbursement. That would mean no Knicks, Rangers and Mets for everyone in Manhattan except for RCN and satellite customers. This HAS to be a bluff. I don't see how those sports franchises could allow this.

Oh come on we're not that far behind. Of all the ones they carry overall:
"ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, WB, UPN, HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater and select Fox Sports regional sports networks. "

...the only ones we don't have yet are WB, UPN and the Fox stuff. And now InHD of course. Clearly the glass is at least half full, especially since WB and UPN show so little HD.

My biggest question is this: they say we'll get these "at an incremental retail cost."

Any thoughts? Don't get me wrong, this is great news, and a great find Drew, thanks! But I wonder how much they'll start to charge us as they add more?

TM

BelB64: That sounds a lot like what happened to Cablevision and the YES Network, which precluded a lot of NYC viewers from watching the Yankees for a year.

Anthony,

TWC is a joke. How do other TWC's around the country have things that we do not? Why are Austin, Texas and Kansas City ahead of NYC when it comes to HD? It just doesn't make sense. You get Fox in HD? I don't. I get channel 705 in whopping 480i WS format, not even 480p. What about INHD, HDNET, WB, UPN, Starz, Cinemax, TMC, ESPN, MSG, & FSNY? INHD is the biggest joke of all since TWC is an investor in the company. I for one would gladly pay to have all the content available. The glass is half full, but it should be overflowing here in NY.

I just got something in the mail about TWC NYC increasing my massive monthly bill by $5.00/month. I don't know what to do since I will want the HD PVR as soon as it's available and I will want the new HD movie tier. I will need another job to afford all this technology.
I wonder if other TWCs around the country are also in the process of increasing rates...

They increase at this time every year. Why do you think they added Discovery HD recently and several other channels (non-hd). "It's our money at work" right? All a big scam, but as far as cable goes, I have seen sooooooooo much worst.

- JB

I will be the first to say... if TWC ceases broadcast of FoxSports and MSG... I am officially done with them and ill give RCN a call.

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Oh come on we're not that far behind. Of all the ones they carry overall:
"ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, WB, UPN, HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater and select Fox Sports regional sports networks. "

...the only ones we don't have yet are WB, UPN and the Fox stuff. And now InHD of course. Clearly the glass is at least half full, especially since WB and UPN show so little HD.

My biggest question is this: they say we'll get these "at an incremental retail cost."

Any thoughts? Don't get me wrong, this is great news, and a great find Drew, thanks! But I wonder how much they'll start to charge us as they add more?

TM

I disagree. TWCNYC's HD offerings are among the skimpiest of any TWC affiliate (some affiliates may have the same number of stations as we do, but I doubt any have fewer and plenty have more).

The worst part of it is that HDTV does not seem to be a priority at all with TWCNYC. Today it took me 25 minutes before I was connected with someone who I was told "might" know something about an announcement regarding an HD Tier. Actually, "connected" is the incorrect word. I left a message for a woman in public affairs who then left me a message saying, that "it must have been a Time Warner Cable corporate announcement and that TWCNYC didn't have any information at this point."

I understand the way corporations work and that it takes time for information to trickle out. But Time Warner Cable is headquartered in Stamford, Conn, a stone's throw from NYC. And Time Warner is headquartered here. Why do TWC affiliates in San Diego and Cincinatti have these channels added weeks or months before we do? Why are they able to speak to competent customer service reps, when we have to waste the better part of an hour being transferred from operator to operator before speaking to someone who knows something about HDTV? Can you remember a single example of TWCNYC being the "first" at ANYTHING? I mean, TWC Hawaii had the PVR (non-HD model) in March of this year. We had to wait until August or September.

I've said this before: We're paying upwards of $100 a month to TWCNYC for cable (and internet) service. We deserve competent help and an HD lineup that matches that of other TWC affiliates.

What jergans said...Ditto.

got notice today, TW rates increase FEB 1, 04, I hope they expand the HDTV programing.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
I will be the first to say... if TWC ceases broadcast of FoxSports and MSG... I am officially done with them and ill give RCN a call. Anyone know what HD box RCN uses? DVI? DVR?

Rcn.com, in its HDTV section spells out their latest hardware. I have RCN's Motorola 5100 (non DVR & DVI) with the 4-channel HD tier plus NBC, ABC, PBS, Fox (480i/p). Some NYC areas can get a new Motorola DVR/converter now, but not sure if it has active DVI. (Search for the recent local RCN thread title, where someone has a brief review of the RCN DVR/converter.) If TWC kicks in all those announced new channels one of these years, I'd drop the RCN tier and add TWC's HD tier to my current 'it's all here' subscription, which now duplicates all but three RCN HD channels (2 HDNets, ESPN-HD). -- John

Biggest drawback for me right now on RCN is the lack of CBS-HD. Anyone that uses RCN have any idea when they are releasing this?

I originally thought Los Angeles was behind NYC in programming. This is our current lineup.

Discovery HD Theater
KCBS (Broadcast)
KABC (Broadcast)
KNBC (Broadcast)
KCET (Broadcast)
KTTV (Broadcast)

HBO HDTV
Showtime HDTV

HDTV Plus

For just $9.95 per month (plus the small monthly fee for equipment) HDTV fans will enjoy INHD and INHD2. Plus, additional channels like HDNet and HDNet Movies will be added soon.

INHD
INHD2
HDNet
HDNet Movies

Actually, the biggest drawback to RCN is that financially they're in disastrous shape and could go away in the blink of an eye. They are literally hemoraging cash and about to run out. They'll obviously file chapter for protection but the prospects are bleak at best. Check the financials, and the stock. I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole personally.

And for those who continue to carp about TWCNYC being slower on the HD channel uptake than other TWC outlets, I say you need to do some research.

First...
"How do other TWC's around the country have things that we do not? Why are Austin, Texas and Kansas City ahead of NYC when it comes to HD? It just doesn't make sense. You get Fox in HD? I don't."

They get the channels first b/c they do NOT have massive channel additions (and duplication) for spanish, chinese and japanese language broadcasts and dubs as we do, which suck up bandwidth here and makes adding *any* channel a bigger strain. Have you checked your 500, 800 and 900 tier channels lately? Count how many there are that are not in english. You'll be surprised. And no, the vast majority of those channels are NOT in markets like San Antonio. A quick look at the channel guide on the TWC SA website shows you that. They have about 11 dedicated foreign language channels not counting HBO-L (Austin has 10, LA has 34), a fraction of what we have, which is 66 based on rough count. And don't think those channels don't eat bandwidth here.

It's a benefit of living in the largest melting pot on earth. The consequence is that bandwidth here is far more constrained than elsewhere and it makes adding *any* channel, HD or otherwise, difficult. Don't like it? Move. Or cancel your service. Or call and complain.

Further, NO ONE gets Fox in HD, b/c they have not started HD broadcasts yet and wont until next year. It's the Fox *Sports* channels you're talking about. And have you looked at the stuff they're showing?

I reiterate. Look at the *entire* list of HD channels available in the entire TWC system. InHD and HDNet represent a minority of HD programming. And they're coming here, trust me. How you can not see the glass as half full is beyond me.

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Actually, the biggest drawback to RCN is that financially they're in disastrous shape and could go away in the blink of an eye. They are literally hemoraging cash and about to run out. They'll obviously file chapter for protection but the prospects are bleak at best. Check the financials, and the stock. I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole personally.

And for those who continue to carp about TWCNYC being slower on the HD channel uptake than other TWC outlets, I say you need to do some research.

First...
"How do other TWC's around the country have things that we do not? Why are Austin, Texas and Kansas City ahead of NYC when it comes to HD? It just doesn't make sense. You get Fox in HD? I don't."

They get the channels first b/c they do NOT have massive channel additions (and duplication) for spanish, chinese and japanese language broadcasts and dubs as we do, which suck up bandwidth here and makes adding *any* channel a bigger strain. Have you checked your 500, 800 and 900 tier channels lately? Count how many there are that are not in english. You'll be surprised. And no, the vast majority of those channels are NOT in markets like San Antonio. A quick look at the channel guide on the TWC SA website shows you that. They have about 11 dedicated foreign language channels not counting HBO-L (Austin has 10, LA has 34), a fraction of what we have, which is 66 based on rough count. And don't think those channels don't eat bandwidth here.

It's a benefit of living in the largest melting pot on earth. The consequence is that bandwidth here is far more constrained than elsewhere and it makes adding *any* channel, HD or otherwise, difficult. Don't like it? Move. Or cancel your service. Or call and complain.

Further, NO ONE gets Fox in HD, b/c they have not started HD broadcasts yet and wont until next year. It's the Fox *Sports* channels you're talking about. And have you looked at the stuff they're showing?

I reiterate. Look at the *entire* list of HD channels available in the entire TWC system. InHD and HDNet represent a minority of HD programming. And they're coming here, trust me. How you can not see the glass as half full is beyond me.

TM

You're missing the main point of my argument. I can be incredibly patient. And I'm aware of the bandwidth issues.

What I can't stand is that no one at TWCNYC knows anything about HDTV programming. Did you know that I wrote the President of Time Warner Cable (about a variety of issues, not all HD related, though some were) because TWCNYC was completeley non-responsive? He personally had someone from TWCNYC call me. The woman was VERY responsive about my billing and installation issues, but she said, "I don't know anything about HD programming and I'm not sure who does."

Look, someone is responsible for programming decisions at TWCNYC. I'm not demanding to speak with that person. But when your corporate office issues a press release announcing the addition of certain stations, I think I'm justified in expecting at least one person I speak with to at least be aware of the damn release! If the first CS rep that answers doesn't known about it, fine. But when I call the public affairs department and they don't know, I think they just don't give a s**t.

TWCNYC's pathetic (no, that's not too strong a word) customer service runs up and down the chain. I'll share some stories:

1. Twice I wasted Saturday's waiting for a DVR box to be delivered. Worse, I was billed for two months of DVR service when I didn't have the box. WORSE, when I called billing, they said they would take off the past months charges, but would not take it off for the upcoming month because, "I could pickup a box myself and if I chose not to, they'd adjust the bill at the end of the month." Of course, I'd have to keep calling to rectify that problem.

2. When the guy came to hook up my HD box, he told me that S-video provided a better HD picture than component. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It's not possible to receive an HD signal with S-Video!!! Can you imagine if I didn't know what I was doing? Do you know how many friends I have who have their HD boxes connected to their HD sets with S-video? THEY THINK THEY'RE WATCHING HDTV!!!

3. How many of us specifically requested (and promised) a Pioneer box and were delivered an SA box?

Do you see my point? I know people bitch about the customer service woes of cell phone companies, land line companies, satellite companies and more. But TWCNYC has been the worst by far. I know that mistakes happen. I can excuse them. But when someone I'm paying $100 a month to continues to make ridiculous errors with me, when I can't speak to a knowledgeable CS representative, I'm convinced that TWCNYC just doesn't care. They don't care about their customers in general (hey, no one in NYC can get satellite anyway, not many can get RCN, so why should they care?), why would they possibly care about the small number of HD subscribers.

Originally posted by anthonymoody
...They get the channels first b/c they do NOT have massive channel additions (and duplication) for spanish, chinese and japanese language broadcasts and dubs as we do, which suck up bandwidth here and makes adding *any* channel a bigger strain. Have you checked your 500, 800 and 900 tier channels lately? Count how many there are that are not in english. You'll be surprised...

I am not surprised and well aware of it and to tell you the truth, sick and tired of it. Don't even want to get started or go there.

Originally posted by anthonymoody
...It's a benefit of living in the largest melting pot on earth. The consequence is that bandwidth here is far more constrained than elsewhere and it makes adding *any* channel, HD or otherwise, difficult. Don't like it? Move. Or cancel your service. Or call and complain....

I do not see it as a benefit but as a hindrance. I have cancelled my service with TWC in the past and would not hesitate to do it again as soon as there is a worthwhile alternative. As stated before, I would not have a problem paying more for the content. I already give them $140+ a month (two HD Boxes, one PVR, and RR). I have called to complain, but like jergans can not believe the incompetence and lack of customer service skills.

Originally posted by anthonymoody
...
Further, NO ONE gets Fox in HD, b/c they have not started HD broadcasts yet and wont until next year. It's the Fox *Sports* channels you're talking about. And have you looked at the stuff they're showing?

I reiterate. Look at the *entire* list of HD channels available in the entire TWC system. InHD and HDNet represent a minority of HD programming. And they're coming here, trust me. How you can not see the glass as half full is beyond me.....

Anthony, sorry but I was being sarcastic regarding Fox. You listed them under HD... Fox Sports NY is a different story. I already said I see the glass as half full, but feel it should be overflowing.

A lot of controversey here on the board re: TWCNYC.

You should remember that TWCNYC is split between upper and lower manhattan and that it is one of the largest systems in the country. The billing systems that support the operations are old and antiquated, and don't have the flexibility to handel simple, let alone, complex billing issues like adding an HD Teir. All of this means lot's of cooridination and to some extent politics since adding a channel means adding a channel on upper and lower manhattan. Plus they try to cooridiante SI and other subscribers in the 5 bouroughs. Smaller systems have much more flexibility. Austin, KC are Comcast joint ventures and have a whole differenct set of processes, even though they are both "operated" by TWC.

Drew

PS: This is not an excuse for not having reps' be briefed on major Press Releases related to the future of digital television!

On another topic, I surprised that the Cablevision news isn't causing more of a stir. I would hope that the real issue is the cost of adding the MSG HD channel to the TWCNYC systems. There is also a lot of rumors going around that TWC will buy Cablevision in the near term and TWC probably doesn't want to do to much to help an acquisition target improve revenues that will in turn make the target more expensive to purchase. It's like paying $150.00 for a Car CD Changer so that you can have the Dealer charge you $500 for it when you buy the car. Bad analogy, oh well.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect that this issue to get resolved easily or quickly. Remember when ABC was pulled from the TWCNYC systems a few years ago?

Lastly, and new contract that is signed without the HD versions of these channels would be insane! I can't tell you how I hate to have that "Available in High Definition" logo appear accross the screen. Especially since the digital broadcast of MSG is already so terrible.

Come on TWC, get it together on this one!

Drew

Sorry for so many posts, but I'm trying to keep them on discrete topics.

Has anyone actually purchased/subscribed to the new Teir of service that was touted recently? Is there a new HD challenl that shows up on the program guide? Are people happy with it? Is this the Teir that is being refererred to in the MSG/Fox Sports Net arguments?

Drew

Hello forum! I have been lurking around for a couple of months, and now a registered member!

UWS of Manhattan here, and expecting BOTH a Sat. delivery of my new Sammy HLN467 & TWC conversion to digital cable!!! Can't wait, but have some basic questions I hope someone can answer.

I currently have SD Analog Cable with RCN (Microwave building reception - we have not upgraded to RCN Digital) About 3 yrs ago I completely renovated my apt., and had the cable wires buried in the walls and ceiling of my apt to all rooms where I have TV ( 4 TVs going here) Not thinking way ahead, I utilized RG59 coaxial cable in the walls, with a small access panel where the main RCN cable comes into the apt, where it goes into a good quality splitter and more RG59 cable to the other rooms in the ceiling. Although I can I have the option of Sat. receiption, I am choosing TWC Digital ( TWC is running special deals as we speak)

Question - can I still utilize the RG59 coaxial cables in my ceiling/walls for my new TWC digital recieption? Can TWC just hook into my splitter? Or do they have to re-wire my WHOLE apt with RG6 and/or fiber optic cable? I don't quite understand, nor have I read anything that plainly explains what type of cabling is used to transmit the signal.

If TWC dows have to re-wire, will their NYC installers crawl around ceiling crawl spaces to hide wiring? I am willing to pay extra for professional installation if required. I just HATE to have wiring stapled all over my walls, when I went through the trouble of hiding everything 3 yrs ago!

Can someone asnwer my questions? I know I will have many more coming up!

Anthony

Hello forum! I have been lurking around for a couple of months, and now a registered member!

UWS of Manhattan here, and expecting BOTH a Sat. delivery of my new Sammy HLN467 & TWC conversion to digital cable!!! Can't wait, but have some basic questions I hope someone can answer.

I currently have SD Analog Cable with RCN (Microwave building reception - we have not upgraded to RCN Digital) About 3 yrs ago I completely renovated my apt., and had the cable wires buried in the walls and ceiling of my apt to all rooms where I have TV ( 4 TVs going here) Not thinking way ahead, I utilized RG59 coaxial cable in the walls, with a small access panel where the main RCN cable comes into the apt, where it goes into a good quality splitter and more RG59 cable to the other rooms in the ceiling. Although I can I have the option of Sat. receiption, I am choosing TWC Digital ( TWC is running special deals as we speak)

Question - can I still utilize the RG59 coaxial cables in my ceiling/walls for my new TWC digital recieption? Can TWC just hook into my splitter? Or do they have to re-wire my WHOLE apt with RG6 and/or fiber optic cable? I don't quite understand, nor have I read anything that plainly explains what type of cabling is used to transmit the signal.

If TWC dows have to re-wire, will their NYC installers crawl around ceiling crawl spaces to hide wiring? I am willing to pay extra for professional installation if required. I just HATE to have wiring stapled all over my walls, when I went through the trouble of hiding everything 3 yrs ago!

Can someone asnwer my questions? I know I will have many more coming up!

Anthony

if TWC ceases broadcasts of MSG on Jan 1 they will be ceasing my account as well. on a brighter note, i agree with drew138 in that any new contract must include the transmission rights to MSG-HD in addition to the basic MSG channel. as a Rangers season ticket holder and life long fan i am hoping they work this all out in the next two weeks...or i'll be saving a bunch of $$$ and listening to a lot of Rangers road games over NHL radio.

Confirmation of 1Q 2004 for the SA 8000HD (or some HD-DVR):
http://www3.twcnyc.com/NASApp/CS/ContentServer?pagename=twcnyc/dtv&mysect=dtv/hdtvtechnical#faq6

Apologies for the cross-post to those that read the Yahoo group...

dpc

kwokpot, hard to say on the RG59. My digital cable worked fine, but when I upgraded to HDTV, I had to replace my coax cables to get a clear signal on the HDTV channels. If all the cable runs are clean and have good splices and connectors, I would think you would be fine in the apartment.

I can assure you that you do not want TWC to rewire you apartment. They will not crawl through ceiling spaces, they will staple cable to you walls and they will doing so while dragging mud in off the streets. The last guy here had a staple stuck in his timberland boots and scratched the he!! out of my hardwood floors. Many, if not the majority, of these installers are contractors, and not TWC employees. Not that this makes much of a difference anyway. These guys all have a set number of appointments and they try to get in and out fast. Some of them are very nice, but rare.

My recommendation would be to have the guy hook up TWC cable into your splitter and see if your cable/splitter/connections work in the apartment. If not, have him spool off 20-50 ft of coax and just run it direct to your TV from the main line to see if that works. You want to at least make sure you have a good signal coming into the apartment. If so, say goodbye to the installer and call a private wiring company to rewire the apartment.

Good luck

Drew

Originally posted by kwokpot

Question - can I still utilize the RG59 coaxial cables in my ceiling/walls for my new TWC digital recieption? Can TWC just hook into my splitter? Or do they have to re-wire my WHOLE apt with RG6 and/or fiber optic cable?

If TWC dows have to re-wire, will their NYC installers crawl around ceiling crawl spaces to hide wiring? I am willing to pay extra for professional installation if required. I just HATE to have wiring stapled all over my walls, when I went through the trouble of hiding everything 3 yrs ago!



Anthony -- I second Drew's comments and add that the cabling in my apartment, a mixture of RG59 and RG6, most of it installed 25 years ago by TWC's predecessor, Manhattan Cable TV, did not require any changes when I upgraded to DTV a few years ago and when I added HDTV earlier this year.

With your new Sammy TV, be sure that TWC is installing one of its HDTV set-top boxes (the SA 3100HD or the Pioneer 3510HD), not its standard DTV box. You're probably better off with the Pio box since it, and not the SA model, can be configured to output a 720p signal that matches the Sammy's native resolution and has a DVI output jack (that, however, is not yet compatible with the Sammy DLP sets).

Thanks to both Drew138 and Manatus for your help. Some more questions.

Are the digital coaxial outputs on both the SA & Pioneer STB's active?

Where, if at all used by TWC, are Digital fiber optic cables used within the setup?

Originally posted by kwokpot
Thanks to both Drew138 and Manatus for your help. Some more questions.

Are the digital coaxial outputs on both the SA & Pioneer STB's active?

Where, if at all used by TWC, are Digital fiber optic cables used within the setup?

I'm not sure what you mean by "digital coaxial outputs." If you're referring to audio, both boxes have active digital audio jacks. Both boxes use component jacks to output SD/HD video and S-Video jacks to output SD. TWCNYC's web site has connection diagrams for both boxes. TWC does not use any fiber optic cables within customers' residences.

Originally posted by Manatus
I'm not sure what you mean by "digital coaxial outputs." If you're referring to audio, both boxes have active digital audio jacks. Both boxes use component jacks to output SD and HD video and SVideo jacks to output SD. TWCNYC's web site has connection diagrams for both boxes. TWC does not use any fiber optic cables within customer's residences.



Thanks again, Manatus, you answered my questions exactly. I did download the STB's guides, but none of them refered to the digital audio out jacks, so I wasn't sure if they were active.

I'm also also more releived about the cabling issues. I'm pretty knowledgable about AV stuff, but I never really got a clear understanding of the cabling issues.

Originally posted by jergans
...What I can't stand is that no one at TWCNYC knows anything about HDTV programming.


Maybe if you tried Bob Watson's office like some of the rest of us you'd get an answer that satisfies you. Do a search...


TM

Originally posted by pciav
I am not surprised and well aware of it and to tell you the truth, sick and tired of it. Don't even want to get started or go there.


Like I said, if NYC is not to your liking, moving is always an option for you. There are plenty of places where all the people are just like you. Maybe those places even get more HD than we do. Have fun.

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Like I said, if NYC is not to your liking, moving is always an option for you. There are plenty of places where all the people are just like you. Maybe those places even get more HD than we do. Have fun.

TM

Born and raised here and will move when I am damn ready to. Who are you to decide what is good for me. What exactly do mean by "all the people are just like you" You do not even know me and I would watch my words if I were you. Did I attack you personally, don't think so. Geez. Happy Holidays.

Originally posted by BelB64
This has nothing to do with high def but it might be a DISASTER for twc-nyc sports fans. There is a scroll running on the weather channel that says basically tht cablevision has denied a TWC-NYC request to renew MSG and FSNY and the contract expires Jan. 1/2004. It also said if it's not resolved the stations would disappear from the cable lineup and we would all get a $2 amonth reimbursement. That would mean no Knicks, Rangers and Mets for everyone in Manhattan except for RCN and satellite customers. This HAS to be a bluff. I don't see how those sports franchises could allow this.


I doubt it is a bluff when it comes to Cablevision. Remember they did not carry an entire season of Yankees games because they couldn't reach an agreement with the YES network. Just as Dolan has destroyed the Knicks and Rangers he seeks to do the same to the fans that pay the freight.

the problem is Cablevision is trying to get TWC to carry their Metro Channels which TWC wants to dump. So Cablevision is trying to package all the channels together. all i know is they have 11 days to work this all out.

Is this situation documented anywhere in the news or on the web? This forum is the first place I am hearing this. Does anyone have a real link to this story?

Originally posted by Manatus
Anthony -- I second Drew's comments and add that the cabling in my apartment, a mixture of RG59 and RG6, most of it installed 25 years ago by TWC's predecessor, Manhattan Cable TV, did not require any changes when I upgraded to DTV a few years ago and when I added HDTV earlier this year.

With your new Sammy TV, be sure that TWC is installing one of its HDTV set-top boxes (the SA 3100HD or the Pioneer 3510HD), not its standard DTV box. You're probably better off with the Pio box since it, and not the SA model, can be configured to output a 720p signal that matches the Sammy's native resolution and has a DVI output jack (that, however, is not yet compatible with the Sammy DLP sets).


So, I've just spent the last 9 hrs playing with my new Sammy 437 with TWC HD DTV.

Overall, I'm VERY ,VERY happy with the set!! The Newtwork HD stations look fanatastic, as did football on CBS. I had a nice Panny 32" SDTV previously in my home theater, so I must admit ithe 43" does take a bit getting used too, since my couch is only about 6.5' away from the set. Watched Pirates of the Carribean and overall the movie looked great.

I would say that colorful, birght sences are indeed birght, sharp and colorfull; dark scenes OTOH, are a bit muddy, but I understand that's how DLP's are.

Watched selected scenes from a Superbit version of THE FIFTH ELEMENT;
THAT movie looked FANTASTIC in EVERY scene on the Sammy!!!!

Anyway, some immediate questions i need some help on:

1) TWCNYC gave me a SA HD STB ; the installer said he didn't have any Pioneers to give me. I have connected via component 2 on the Sammy, and utilized the coax digital audio out on the STB to my receiver. The problem is that I'm not getting all my cable stations, I get all the netowrk stations, all the HD stations, but not all the rest, even though my other TV's using SA's nonHD STB's are receiving all the stations, so it's not the cable. Can the HD STB be defective? I tried all the STB re-sets, but no use. I have called for service, but wonder if that truely is the problem?

2)To compound the problem, some of the cable stations I do get I don't get sound through the digital connection, but when I use the RCA outs, the sound comes back (HSN is a station I can't get audio through digital out)
Is that normal? Shouldn't I be able to get audio for ALL channels through the digital out from the HD STB?

Tell me my 2 problems are with the cable box and NOT input/output issues!

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Is this situation documented anywhere in the news or on the web? This forum is the first place I am hearing this. Does anyone have a real link to this story?

Newsday (http://www.newsday.com/business/printedition/ny-bzfeud193590540dec19,0,6997503.story?coll=ny-business-print)


From twcnyc.com

"Our contract to carry the MSG Channel and Fox Sports NY, which are both owned by Cablevision, expires at the end of this year. We've been negotiating in good faith to try to keep both channels on Time Warner Cable, but Cablevision has made unreasonable financial demands - demands that would result in a further price increase to our customers.

The increasing cost for sports programming is a major part of our rates, so we are working to minimize future increases for our customers. While we continue to work toward a resolution, we've offered to keep carrying these channels under our current contract terms. But Cablevision has said "no" again. This means that Cablevision is threatening to take MSG Channel and Fox Sports NY away from our customers as of January 1, when our current contract expires.

If Cablevision carries out this threat to take these channels away, Time Warner Cable will voluntarily offer a rebate of $2.00 per month to minimize any inconvenience.

We will continue to keep you informed."

Well two things...

The problem with not getting the sound on all of your cable channels using the digital output on the SA box.. is because not all cable channels broadcast digital audio. The channels that don't broadcast Dolby 5.1 or 2.0... will not come out on the coax output. What I did was... on my receiver I have my cable connected to DVD-IN (only cause thats the only input on my receiver with a coax-in). But I also have a DVD-IN thats standard composite RCA. I ran a line from the SA to that input as well. My receiver when DVD is selected will first check the coax digital input to see if there is a signal. If for some reason there isnt, it automatically switches to the composite RCA input... which corrects this problem.

I am going to check out that link from Newsday. I make no joke about it, if Time Warner loses those two channels... im off to RCN. There is no way im missing the Mets (even if they do suck) and the rest of the Rangers (who do suck). :D

Hey.... I just thought of something.... does anyone have any email addresses to any of the big-wigs at Time Warner. I'd like to send them an email.

Pretty much I would say... this is their opportunity. They should pay Cablevision extra to carry these channels... pass a small fee onto TWC subscribers for these two channels... but give them to us in HI-DEF!!!

I heard that both of these channels look kickass in Hi-Def.

Hey Phil,

You made this comment:
"I am not surprised and well aware of it and to tell you the truth, sick and tired of it. Don't even want to get started or go there. "

...directly in response to my suggesting that you count the number of non-english language channels TWCNYC carries. Since those channels are there for 1 reason and 1 reason only (the extremely high number of non-english speaking folks here), and you reacted so strongly to my bringing it up...so strongly in fact that you said you didn't "even want to get started or go there" ...that it suggests to me that you have a real problem with these channels and by inference the people the channels serve. It seems laughable to think that your anger at this situation could be caused by the channels alone. Are you THAT pissed about lacking a couple HD stations that those non-english language channels steam you so much that you don't "even want to get started or go there"? Seems even more doubtful since you didn't even seem to realize this was a reason TWCNYC was more bandwidth constrained than other TWC systems until I brought it up.

If you have no problem with the people served by these channels, please tell us what could *possibly* get you so steamed about these channels that you "Don't even want to get started or go there"

TM

Regarding many foreign-language NYCTWC channels. A while back, using my 3100HD diagnostic mode, I noticed one foreign-language channel was using the exact same cable-slot frequency as the English-language version. Seems like (haven't investigated further) that NYCTWC was simply remapping (different channel number) the English-language channel (video only), substituting Spanish audio. Since audio requires only a tiny amount of bandwidth compared to video, this technique wouldn't consume much cable bandwidth. Tuning a Spanish-language channel would tune the English-language video but with Spanish audio. Here's one approach to using diagnostic mode (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2434409#post2434409) if anyone wants to check frequencies. -- John

Anthony,

You are making an awful lot of assumptions and again I suggest you back off the personal attack approach. That being said, we have always had friendly exchanges in the past and would like to continue that way. I've made no defamatory statements towards any one person or any group of people and do not have a problem with "the people served by these channels"; however, I do have a problem with TWC-NYC's handling of the implementation of new and available HD channels that are readily available in other markets and if there excuse is because of bandwidth constraint, then the amount of foreign language channels needs to be addressed. I understand the need for them, but not at the sacrifice of mainstream available programing which should be given precedence. Even though HD owners are in the extreme minority, I would expect that here in NY we make up a good portion of that minority and that the revenue per capita is greater than elsewhere in the country and that we would have available to us at least what is available any place else in the country.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Hey.... I just thought of something.... does anyone have any email addresses to any of the big-wigs at Time Warner. I'd like to send them an email.

Pretty much I would say... this is their opportunity. They should pay Cablevision extra to carry these channels... pass a small fee onto TWC subscribers for these two channels... but give them to us in HI-DEF!!!

I heard that both of these channels look kickass in Hi-Def.


i agree. i'd certainly be willing to let my already astronomical cable bill climb yet a bit higher to get those 2 channels in HD. no doubt this is the time they need to secure them as part of any new contract. you would have to assume the TW big-wigs are aware of this.

Here's the email address for the president of Time Warner Cable (NOT TWCNYC): glenn.britt@twcable.com

You should also cc his assistant: Tami.Wagner-Nast@twcable.com

I've emailed them before and did get a response.

I would also ask why TWCNYC is often the last (or close to last) to receive new TWC high definition offerings. Many many other TWC affiliates already have InHD and HDNet. We don't nor do any representatives know anything about the stations.

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Maybe if you tried Bob Watson's office like some of the rest of us you'd get an answer that satisfies you. Do a search...


TM

Don't be a jackass. For one, I've spoken with the president of Time Warner cable. He put me in touch with people at TWCNYC who supposedly are the "authority" on HD issues. None of them know anything. It's not that the answers are unsatisfactory. I'm not getting ANY answers. Have you?

Also, for $130 a month, I think we should have some semblance of service. I've invested many many hours researching who to call and I've spent too much energy emailing and speaking to those people. I shouldn't have to do that. Especially now that TWCNYC is running a commercial seemingly every 15 minutes touting the advantages of HDTV. You'd think that if they're running those ads, the people answering the phones would know what was going on.

Originally posted by pciav
Anthony,

You are making an awful lot of assumptions and again I suggest you back off the personal attack approach. That being said, we have always had friendly exchanges in the past and would like to continue that way. I've made no defamatory statements towards any one person or any group of people and do not have a problem with "the people served by these channels"; however, I do have a problem with TWC-NYC's handling of the implementation of new and available HD channels that are readily available in other markets and if there excuse is because of bandwidth constraint, then the amount of foreign language channels needs to be addressed. I understand the need for them, but not at the sacrifice of mainstream available programing which should be given precedence. Even though HD owners are in the extreme minority, I would expect that here in NY we make up a good portion of that minority and that the revenue per capita is greater than elsewhere in the country and that we would have available to us at least what is available any place else in the country.


Phil,
Agreed re: civil exchange. Couple things though:

1) If you think the number of people served by foreign language channels and the number of HD customers is anything other than a 1000x difference (or higher) than I think you're mistaken. No way no way no way that we are a more important block of customers. Waaaayyy to small.

2) re: revenue per capita...I disagree, or more accurately, I'd say that any small differences in higher rates here in NYC are more than swamped by much higher costs faced in this market for everything from 'installers' to real estate

TM

Originally posted by jergans
Don't be a jackass. For one, I've spoken with the president of Time Warner cable. He put me in touch with people at TWCNYC who supposedly are the "authority" on HD issues. None of them know anything. It's not that the answers are unsatisfactory. I'm not getting ANY answers. Have you?

Also, for $130 a month, I think we should have some semblance of service. I've invested many many hours researching who to call and I've spent too much energy emailing and speaking to those people. I shouldn't have to do that. Especially now that TWCNYC is running a commercial seemingly every 15 minutes touting the advantages of HDTV. You'd think that if they're running those ads, the people answering the phones would know what was going on.


Jerkins,

It's rather sweet that you think the President of Time Warner would know much specific information about any facet of the business, especially something as niche-y as HD, including who exactly is in charge of it. I guess you haven't had much experience with large corporations. Did you used to call Steve Case when your AOL dial up number was busy? Don't get me wrong, contacting "the top" can be a great way to get *problems* resolved, but not to get specific information. Oh, and yes, to your question, I HAVE gotten answers.

As I suggested, perhaps if you contacted Bob Watson's office, which is helpful both via phone and via email, you will get answers that satisfy you and service that satisfies you. You can do a search in this forum for his phone number and email address. He's very helpful, really. For the record, his office is the one that was initially responsible for all HD deployment in NYC, including the original beta test of which I was a part. I believe his responsibilities have broadened, but he still knows a ton about what's going on in HD, having been in charge of it and all...

Oh, and btw, stop citing $130/month. That's not what you spend for cable. Road Runner is considered a separate revenue stream internally by TWC, so you should really only be pissed at spending $80/month and getting bad service ;)

TM

Phil/TM, glad to see a little bit of peace making on the board. :)

As mentioned in earlier posts, doing anything in TWC NYC takes longer to coordinate due to the sheer size of the market and the infrastructure issues faced by the division. That said, I would think that TWCNYC is among the more profitable markets due the sheer density of people. Where else can you generate 100 per sub, per month in a building with 800 apartments that takes up a 1/4 block of real estate. It makes me sick to think of the $$$ NYC generates for TWC.

I was surprised that no one responded to John Mason's excellent observation on the multi lingual broadcast's on TWCNYC only changing the audio. Great observation and I think it shows that TWCNYC is trying to conserve/optimize bandwidth at all costs.

However, there are a bunch of channels that I don't have access to on my "It's all here" package that are dedicated to highly targeted foreign language audiences. I think the subscription to these channels is something like 13.95 a month. Considering you can subscribe to Pl@yboy for 9.95 a month, I'm sure TWCNYC makes a ton of money off these channels! As soon as we all will pay $14.00 a month for ESPN-HD is the day we'll get it added to the system overnight. Since that isn't likely to happen, we'll just have to wait until the lawyers and engineers get it sorted.

Does anyone know if you can actually use the AVSFORUM to start a petition? I'd like to know how many people actually watch this board, and if we could use it to leverage our collective voice?

When it's all said and done, it is crazy that there isn't more information or more of a push to get the most complete lineup of HD channels online ASAP.

Drew

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Jerkins,

It's rather sweet that you think the President of Time Warner would know much specific information about any facet of the business, especially something as niche-y as HD, including who exactly is in charge of it. I guess you haven't had much experience with large corporations. Did you used to call Steve Case when your AOL dial up number was busy? Don't get me wrong, contacting "the top" can be a great way to get *problems* resolved, but not to get specific information. Oh, and yes, to your question, I HAVE gotten answers.

As I suggested, perhaps if you contacted Bob Watson's office, which is helpful both via phone and via email, you will get answers that satisfy you and service that satisfies you. You can do a search in this forum for his phone number and email address. He's very helpful, really. For the record, his office is the one that was initially responsible for all HD deployment in NYC, including the original beta test of which I was a part. I believe his responsibilities have broadened, but he still knows a ton about what's going on in HD, having been in charge of it and all...

Oh, and btw, stop citing $130/month. That's not what you spend for cable. Road Runner is considered a separate revenue stream internally by TWC, so you should really only be pissed at spending $80/month and getting bad service ;)

TM

Moody:

Another tasteful reply (particularly your witty "jerk" play on my screen name)! And if you'd read my response, you'd notice I emailed the President of TIME WARNER CABLE, not Time Warner. There's an enormous difference and yes, I do expect the president of TWC to have some knowledge of HD.

I have EXTENSIVE experience with large corporations and while I would never consider emailing or phoning the president of a corporation (or subsidiary), when I don't receive responses anywhere else, I figured it was worth a shot. And I was honestly quite surprised when I received a response, especially when the response came within 60 minutes of me sending the email! (Plus, I really think things are rotten at TWCNYC, outside of anything related to high definition. The more attention we can bring to that issue, the better off we are as consumers.)

And I did email Bob Watson's office last week. I haven't heard back.

But anyway YOU'RE MISSING MY POINT!!!! Regardless of what I pay for cable, shouldn't they have trained operators to answer simple questions? I'm not asking, "When are you getting ESPNHD" because that's a national issue and no one is going to give that information. I'm not asking about StarzHD or any other stations that TWC isn't currently carrying (or announced plans to carry). I know how contentions negotiations can be, and I've never blamed TWC for failing to carry stations that I'd like to see. It takes two to tango (or tangle) and blaming TWC rather than ESPN (or TWCNYC rather than Cablevision with respect to FSNY and MSG) doesn't do any good.

I truly only ask for information that TWCNYC should have at their fingertips. Is it unreasonable to expect that when you pay for a continuing service, that people should be able to answer your questions with respect to that service? Honestly, am I being unreasonable? You seem to think so, and I'd like to know why.

I (and others) have had a number of experiences with TWCNYC that are inexcusable: Being charged for months for services we don't receive, wasting Saturdays while the technicians (who are independent contractors, but still represent TWCNYC) bring the wrong box or never show up, technicians not knowing how to hook up an HD box...

Am I wrong for being upset about this? Do you think that if TWCNYC faced real competition customer service would be such a low priority?

You're clearly entitled to your own opinion. I'd like to know your thoughts on these issues.

Jerkans,

I know you emailed the President of TWC and not TW. My leaving it out in my post was simply an oversight, not a misunderstanding. But you actually prove my point. You said:

"I would never consider emailing or phoning the president of a corporation (or subsidiary), when I don't receive responses anywhere else". Really? Why not? You say you have "EXTENSIVE" experience with large corporations. You should know, in case no one told you, that writing, calling and emailing the President or CEO of an organization can be an extremely effective means of getting your problems solved, often the most effective. I've sent legitimate gripe letters to AT&T, Handspring, American Airlines CEOs among others. In return I got: $400 forgiven from my wireless bill (AT&T), a free PDA replacement overnighted to me (Handspring), and $500 in travel vouchers (American Airlines). These were all conveyed to me in writing by someone "from the the office of the CEO." You should not be at all surprised that you got a response.

As for the President of TWC NYC to know specifics about HD, including who to direct you to, I don't think so. There aren't many of us customers (no matter how you slice it), and if you count the *incremental* revenue they get from us as HD customers, as opposed to if we were non-HD customers, you realize only one answer: HD is a minimal part of TWC NYC right now.

Maybe we're arguing semantics over getting *information* vs. getting service or problems/solved. But it seems to me that you're complaining about both. You cite getting overcharged, receiving the wrong box, having a no-show appointment, technicians not knowing how to hook up the HD box...yet none of these things have the least bit to do with when TWCNYC is going to add more HD stations.

I'm surprised you haven't heard back from Bob, he's usually very responsive. I wonder what tone you used in your email. If it was confrontational (I'm not suggesting this was the case) he may have simply deleted it as flame bait. I just sent him one to ask about the channels, I'll let you know what he says.

As an experiment, I just tried the TWC HD Hotline twice. The first person told me straight out she had no information on when additional HD channels were going to be added. The second person told me, without hesitation, that he'd heard rumblings about InHD 1&2 coming "soon". I asked him if Q1 was a reasonable guess, he said yes. Next, he referred me to someone in the programming department at 212-598-7312. I left a voicemail for this person (it's a direct line), and I'll report back when/if they call back.

I am of the opinion that the glass is very much half full, and am not remotely surprised that NYC is generally late in getting HD channels added by TWC. Given the size of the market and the technical issues associated with rolling out service to over a million people at the same time, the bandwidth constraints, the relative lesser profitability of the NYC market (sorry Drew, I believe the density issue is swamped by costs here), and the antiquated systems cobbled together from the Manhattan Cable buy out, and it doesn't surprise me at all.

Further, as for customer service knowing simple answers to FAQs, you're absolutely right, they should know more. But knowing when channels come on line is probably not something they would or even should know. Why? Because for the most part the reason they are not on line is b/c either contractual issues are still being worked out, or technical issues are being sorted out. As you may know, those can be essentially impossible issues to predict, especially on the contract side (all regional systems negotiate their own side agreements to national agreements). What could they possibly tell you, other than that they're working on a contract or working on technical issues. Either answer is completely open ended. If they made a guestimate, you'd probably be more angry if that date came and went w/o the channel than if they said they didn't know.

TM

Anthony,

I'll buy things take more time in NY because of the size of rollout and can believe the infrastructure problems, but how do you explain AD-HOC HD programing that we had for while last year on channel 708 (NBA, Tennis etc.) It seems that if needed they can add stuff at will. ESPN-HD, HDNET, MSGHD, and FSNYHD, I can understand there being contract problems, but why is INHD such a problem when TWC has a vested interest in the company? (Stating now, I could be wrong about TWC's relationship with INHD...) Movie channels such as Starz already have an agreement with TWC, why not add the HD service? Is it bandwidth? Doesn't make sense when they can add specials it seems whenever they want. Is it contractual? Seems kind of strange when we get 5, 6, 7 however many regular Starz channels we get. I understand where you are coming from and still agree with you that the glass is definitely half full and not empty, but some things just don't add up.

AM:

1. You're right, I have issues with BOTH the lack of information and the lack of service from TWCNYC. I personally think they reflect a near-complete failure of TWCNYC's customer service. Just my opinion.

2. It might make sense that the CSRs wouldn't know when specific channels are being added. BUT, the press release specifically announced a "premium HD Tier." This is a billing-related issue which is why I think it's reasonable to expect someone to have an answer. Plus, when an entity's parent corporation issues a press release, it's reasonable to expect that the CSR's are at least briefed on the information contained in that release so they know what to say when customer's call. Instead, I had a CSR tell me that I was mistaken and that no one from Time Warner ever said any such thing.

3. I'd much rather hear a CRS tell me, "We're working on technical issues, but we'll have the stations added soon" than to act like they'd never heard of the stations before.

My personal view is that a lot of people think it's not worth complaining about cable service (HD or SD) because we don't have a choice in service. TWCNYC will give us what they want, so why waste the energy complaining? I think it's worth complaining because:

A. We're paying money for a service. If the service is subpar, let them know!

B. Many issues are issues of incompetence: bringing the wrong box, CSRs not knowing basic information, etc. There's really no excuse for this stuff.

C. If we keep complaining, especially to the "big shots" at TWC (not TWCNYC), maybe we'll see some positive change. It's possible that the few of us on this board are the only ones hassleing the people at TWC's national office with our problems. But if there are others, it can't make those people happy to hear so many complaints about the competence of the TWCNYC employees.

The glass might be half full with respect to TWCNYC's offerings, but as far as service goes, I think the glass is almost completely empty. Just my $.02.

Please do let me know if you hear back from Bob Watson. Perhaps he's away for the holidays. My email to him was quite cordial, basically saying I was excited to read the recent press release about the addition of new HD stations and asking him for timing info w/r/t TWCNYC. I did say that I had a very difficult time finding anyone at TWCNYC who knew much of anything about HD and asked if he knew of someone specific to ask for when I called with questions.

Originally posted by pciav
Anthony,

I'll buy things take more time in NY because of the size of rollout and can believe the infrastructure problems, but how do you explain AD-HOC HD programing that we had for while last year on channel 708 (NBA, Tennis etc.) It seems that if needed they can add stuff at will.

--perhaps a test? perhaps easier to jam some extra programming into the pipe on a temporary basis? especially since there were no billing or other issues to coordinate...

ESPN-HD, HDNET, MSGHD, and FSNYHD, I can understand there being contract problems, but why is INHD such a problem when TWC has a vested interest in the company? (Stating now, I could be wrong about TWC's relationship with INHD...)

--if they do own a piece, given chinese wall structures generally set up in situations like this to avoid any possibility of collusion or preferential treatment, you can guarantee that TWC (and each local market) has to negotiate a deal with InHD just like everyone else. that's why I think someone will ultimately get into trouble with the way the various cable owned sports networks have been used as political footballs b/t cable cos.

Movie channels such as Starz already have an agreement with TWC, why not add the HD service? Is it bandwidth? Doesn't make sense when they can add specials it seems whenever they want. Is it contractual? Seems kind of strange when we get 5, 6, 7 however many regular Starz channels we get.

--perhaps. or perhaps starz is asking separate, different terms for their HD channels, requiring a separate side agreement.

I understand where you are coming from and still agree with you that the glass is definitely half full and not empty, but some things just don't add up.


TM

Jergans,

It's funny, as I was reading your post, I kept thinking back to the many times I've learned that quite often, front line employees are the last to know...just about anything. Should they be? Of course not. But across industries, when it comes to anything from M&A to layoffs to strategic developments and partnerships, to new business relationships, to whatever, quite often the troops hear about it in the press release...which is often pointed out to them by someone outside the company.

It is the very rare, efficient, well structured company with a top notch and organized corporate communications staff that ensures that information disseminates to the proper people at the proper time, including employees - especially those who deal directly with customers. Unfortunately, it's the fear of some kind of liability which fosters an atmosphere of fear, whereby the best way to make sure that no information gets out too soon or to the wrong place is to simply let nothing out at all.

Take reg FD (the 'fair disclosure' law) which is supposed to prevent assymetrical information dissemination. Or, looked at in reverse, it's supposed to guarantee that everyone hears the same thing at the same time. The result is that in general the flow of information from public companies is *far* less - orders of magnitude less - than prior to reg FD. One result is that public company performance is much harder to estimate. Wall Street analysts have gotten far less accurate with their earnings estimates as a result, adding volatility to the market, particularly during earnings season. Reg FD may have leveled the playing field for the little guy, but at what cost?

Anyway, a long way of saying that none of this surprises me. I hear your frustration. I guess I'm just numb to it and don't expect better given my experience. Perhaps that's a sad and defeatist statement, but I'm fairly certain that we'll get more HD channels when they flip the switch, and not sooner.

TM

Hey, no Reg FD references in this thread! I'm a corporate lawyer. I deal enough with that at work. I come to this site to get away from that stuff for a few minutes a day...

And I do recognize that TWCNYC does some things quickly. Its announcement that the the SA HD DVR box will be available "in the first quarter of 2004" certainly was a pleasant surprise. I'm anxiously looking forward to the first post on this thread from the person who receives the box.

The full text of his reply is below. A couple notes:

1. I didn't ask about ESPNHD in my email to him. I only asked about INHD and HDNet. Obviously he read my mind, though, because I'd LOVE to get ESPNHD.

2. The bad news is obviously the fact that they're out of bandwidth. Note he said they hope to resolve it "next year." That could be 12 months from now. There are a lot of HD stations online now (those referenced above plus CinemaxHD, StarzHD) and others coming online soon (Turner, Bravo, etc). It would stink if we have to wait a considerable period of time to receive those stations. I have to be patient though, since I have no other cable/satellite options.

Even though this isn't the best news, I'm thrilled I got a response that contained some useful information.

-------------------------

From: Watson, Robert [mailto:bob.watson@twcable.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 4:52 PM
To: ____________
Subject: RE: HDNet and INHD


We hope to carry as much HD programming as our resources allow, and
recently added Discovery HD. Time Warner Cable has agreements allowing
it to distribute INHD 1 & 2 and HD Net and HD Movies, however in our NYC
area systems we are currently out of available bandwidth to carry these
services. We expect to resolve our bandwidth issues next year and plan
to add the services when the bandwidth becomes available. Time Warner
Cable's corporate programming department is also negotiating with ESPN
to for rights to carry ESPNHD. Which we ultimately plan to add.
In the interim, I hope you are happy with the HD service you are
receiving at no additional charge, including local broadcasters such as
ABC, NBC, CBS and channel 13 in HD and the digital feeds from Fox, WNJN
and Kids Thirteen.

Thanks for your feedback.
Happy Holidays,
Bob Watson
VP Programming & New Business Development
Time Warner Cable of NY & NJ.

I'm happy that Bob responded to your email and that he mentioned the negotiations regarding ESPN-HD. Since it appears that TWC is the only major cable company which doesn't yet have the rights to carry ESPN-HD, it is only a matter of time until that is resolved. It still amazes me that NYC is not the showcase for HD throughout the country.

Out of curiosity, how does TWC solve its bandwidth problems?

Well, looks like Bob got to all his email at the same time! I got my response today too...*exactly* the same as yours, word for word! I agree that while it may not be great news (if it's in the 12 month horizon...) at least it's something:

We hope to carry as much HD programming as our resources allow, and recently added Discovery HD. Time Warner Cable has agreements allowing it to distribute INHD 1 & 2 and HD Net and HD Movies, however in our NYC area systems we are currently out of available bandwidth to carry these services. We expect to resolve our bandwidth issues next year and plan to add the services when the bandwidth becomes available. Time Warner Cable's corporate programming department is also negotiating with ESPN to for rights to carry ESPNHD, which we ultimately plan to add.

In the interim, I hope you are happy with the HD service you are receiving at no additional charge, including local broadcasters such as ABC, NBC, CBS and channel 13 in HD and the digital feeds from Fox, WNJN and Kids Thirteen.



Thanks for your feedback.
Happy Holidays,
Bob Watson
VP Programming & New Business Development
Time Warner Cable of NY & NJ.

Out of Bandwidth????

I have seen so many quotes before about how they have virtually unlimited bandwidth. Now a VP is telling us they are out?

What do they do to fix this? Dig up the streets? Buy a new Cisco router? If this is true, this is big news.

Moving just THREE of the least popular networks from analog to digital would provide enough bandwidth to add 36 standard-definition digital channels or 6 HD channels.

The problem is that many networks negotiate to be on analog in order to reach a larger customer base. When they start fazing out analog (and they will), there will be plenty of bandwidth to go around. Just think what percentage of their bandwidth is occupied by the 90 (that's right, NINETY) analog signals they carry.

Everyone with more than Basic service needs a box anyway, and the digital box rental costs the same as analog. In fact, it doesn't cost much more for Time Warner to buy digital boxes than analog ones anymore anyway. An all (or mostly) digital conversion would solve everyone's problems.

Well, that half full glass just had a big gulp taken out of it and it needs some refilling...:D Goods news is next year is only a week away, so lets hope they get on this quick. According to that email we could be watching INHD 1 & 2, plus HDNET and HDNET Movies right now. Damn foreign language channels...only kidding...well not really ;)

Merry Christmas to all.

Great forum...lively debates

I was wondering if someone can give me a quick overview of what I'm walking into when I will move to NYC from Charlotte, NC in early Feb. On my Pioneer 3510 with TWC Charlotte, we have CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX (480p), PBS, UNCTV, HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater, INHD 1 & 2.

Thanks

Originally posted by DJ Frustration
Great forum...lively debates

I was wondering if someone can give me a quick overview of what I'm walking into when I will move to NYC from Charlotte, NC in early Feb. On my Pioneer 3510 with TWC Charlotte, we have CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX (480p), PBS, UNCTV, HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater, INHD 1 & 2.

Thanks

At the moment, the true-HD channels carried on TWCNYC are ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, HBO, SHO and Discovery HD Theater. On the bright side, perhaps you'll find some aspects of life here that compensate for the comparative shallowness of HD coverage. As you may or may not know, TWCNYC does not yet completely monopolize the NYC cable market, and depending upon what borough, neighborhood and even building one lives in, a couple of other cable companies are players.

And, if you get tired of watching television, there's usually something else going on in town to entertain you.

Welcome (a bit early) to the Big Apple!

Unfortunately I was just told by a VP of public affairs at TWC-NYC that we won't get the tier of HDNET Movies HDNET INHD1 & INHD2 until the fall of 2004. She was accurate when she told me about Discovery HD so I believe she is right about this.

Belb64: Did she say anything about ESPN-HD?

If true, that stinks.

But, we wanted answers and we got them. I don't like the timing, but unless my co-op board decides to wire RCN, I can't switch even if I wanted to.

Originally posted by BelB64
Unfortunately I was just told by a VP of public affairs at TWC-NYC that we won't get the tier of HDNET Movies HDNET INHD1 & INHD2 until the fall of 2004. She was accurate when she told me about Discovery HD so I believe she is right about this.

Bah... this sucks. Well I am glad I have RCN as an alternative then. I just wished RCN carried CBS-HD. Maybe ill call them now and get a quote as to how much they could cost in comparison to Time Warner.

Ill post my findings here.

Well I just called RCN... and this is what I could get...

$111/month
Basic 93 channels + 43 digital channels
HBO
Full Hi-Def Tier with a hi-def box
Mach3 Cable Modem
Basic cable in 2nd room Free
(This package would be $96/mo for the first six months)


Right now with Time Warner I get
$130/mo (approximately)
Basic + Digital channels
HBO / Showtime / Cinemax / Movie Channel
1 Hi-Def Box
1 DVR Box
Roadrunner


Its like... with RCN I gain ESPN-HD, HDnet, HDnetMovies... but with Time Warner I get CBS-HD, the DVR box, and the other premium channels.

However, if Time Warner drops MSG and Fox Sports... then those would be channels gained by RCN. And it also seems like RCN is gonna get the HD-DVR box quicker than Time Warner since they are already rolling it out in parts of Manhattan.

Blah... decisions... decisions.

Regarding ESPN-HD she said they're still negotiating on a national level so there is no way to speculate on the local level as yet

rcn now has a hi-def dvr stb -- motorola 6240 I think
I have it and its suppose to be dvi enabled although mine has yet to work.
So far its a fun toy...

has anyone emailed Bob Watson about whether TWC is negotiating with Cablevision regarding adding the HD feeds of MSG and FSNY? even if they claim they don't have the bandwidth to transmit them at the moment they would obviously be foolish not to purchase the rights to them now as part of any new MSG/FSNY/METRO deal.

Originally posted by MikeNY718
Moving just THREE of the least popular networks from analog to digital would provide enough bandwidth to add 36 standard-definition digital channels or 6 HD channels.

The problem is that many networks negotiate to be on analog in order to reach a larger customer base.


You can't overstate the enormity of this issue. I was on the inside of a negotiation b/t TWC and a cable network that was added w/in the last few years, and the major sticking point was getting on the analog spectrum. It wound up almost being a deal breaker and the network had to make *major* concessions in order to get the analog slot.

I can't say for certain that every network that currently has an analog slot has it written in so ironclad fashion in their contract with TWC, but I *can* tell you that there is no way in hell TWC will ever move this particular network into digital. If they did they'd incur a prohibitively material penalty. In fact, the language states that even if subs somehow *increased* with a move to a digital slot (which will never happen...it would never be better than an even swap), it requires the network's approval, which they have no particular incentive to give. Would you trade a 'low' channel number for a high one? Not likely.

TM

I can't say for certain that every network that currently has an analog slot has it written in so ironclad fashion in their contract with TWC, but I *can* tell you that there is no way in hell TWC will ever move this particular network into digital. If they did they'd incur a prohibitively material penalty. In fact, the language states that even if subs somehow *increased* with a move to a digital slot (which will never happen...it would never be better than an even swap), it requires the network's approval, which they have no particular incentive to give. Would you trade a 'low' channel number for a high one? Not likely.

Once again, as with most issues, the "bandwidth" problem TWC speaks of is really more of a political one than a technical one...

Actually I'd say it's more of a legal one (if what I said is true of other cable networks as well). At the end of the day, they are bandwidth constrained. They don't have enough digital spectrum to just add more HD channels willy nilly. [I like saying willy nilly]. The pipe as it stands has little room around the edges. The question of why doesn't change that reality unfortunately :(

TM

UPDATE:

Ok... I just called TWC-NYC and the CSR I spoke to said that Cablevision and Time Warner came to an agreement regarding MSG/FOXSports so the channels will not be removed.

I called because I went on twcnyc.com and saw the notice was taken off. The CSR I spoke to said Time Warner will make a public announcement regarding this sometime in early January. I did ask if these would ever go Hi-Def and I got the usual answer, "Well... the more people that order hi-def boxes... will determine if we add more hi-def channels". Blah.

Well at least I don't have to switch to RCN (for now). I thought you would all like to know this.

Here's the announcement on NY1:

http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicintid=1&contentintid=36000

thanks for the updates. i guess i won't be cancelling my TWC subscription after all. sure wish they could add MSG-HD though...maybe next year. :(

Originally posted by broadwayblue
sure wish they could add MSG-HD though...maybe next year. :(
if we're lucky.

I find the main problem is people who won't upgrade to digital cable. Analog signals take up a hell of a lot more bandwidth. I have a friend who is like that and doesn't even have a remote for his box. He actually gets up to change the channel accross the room. He just refuses to upgrade yet comes over all the time and watches ondemand and HD at my place. Funny thing is that every time he complains there aren't enough hd channels, I tell him about this and he still won't upgrade his cable! People are just complacent with their service and don''t see the "greater good." Until TWCNYC puts more pressure by removing more and more analog channels, we arent going to see a large increase in HD unless the come up with some new method of squeezing more in.

- JB

I don't know if I buy this bandwith excuse. How was TWC able to give us INHD 1 in Staten Island for almost a month on channel 708 after it launched before it mysteriously vanished without explanation. What ..they had bandwith to carry the channel and then suddenly did not?

Did they add DiscoveryHD on Staten Island since then?

ok, here's a good one for you.

I used to have an HD box (SA3100HD) and a regular digital box (hooked up to ReplayTV) all on one television.

When the DVR came out, I got rid of both boxes and just had 1 box - the DVR.

I just called up to see if I can go pick up a new HD box. The rep told me this: I cannot pick up the box, it must be installed, b/c I am not trading it with the DVR, but adding it in additon to.

That will cost $30 for install.

Also, my DVR will go up from $7 to $9, b/c I got it on special, and as soon as you make any service changes, they take specials away.

And, the HD box will be an additional $7 for the box, which I expected.

So, it looks like I am not going to do this. Because of their backwards policy, they will not be getting more money from me.

Doesn't this seem like a dumb policy?

Also, the rep said they expect the HD DVR first quarter - same as usual. Hopefully, it will be nearer to Jan, as it looks like I won't have HD until I get the HD DVR and trade it in for my regualr DVR.

Man, I leave this place for a week and two pages of comments go up! Terrible news on the HDNET and INHD channels being pushed off until the fall, that certainly is 'next year" per Bob Watson's scripted e-mail.

MSG and Fox would be nice, but the whole cablevision thing makes me think that those channels wont be added anytime soon.

The whole analog cable channel thing is a major debacle for the cable companies. The cost to support these channels is huge, but it's still the majority of subscribers (and thiefs who don't pay for, but receive analog cable).

I also don't believe the bandwith issues, but I guess it's better than "we have no information".

Can't wait for the HD DVR. I'm sure it will be March 31st since that is still technically the 1st quarter. :)

Drew

Can I use the component & DVI output on the pio 3510 at the same time? I have two sets, a fuji plasma and an older rptv. I'd like to feed the dvi output of the 3510 to the fuji, and the component output to the rptv.

I've read in some thread somewhere that when you use dvi, the component output is limited to a low res signal. Is that true?

I currently have a 3100HD. Seems most people prefer the 3510. Any downside to swapping the 3100HD for the 3510HD? I think I read somewhere that the sd output from the svideo is worse on the 3510. Is that true?

Thx

Actually, when you use the DVI output, the component output becomes completely disabled. You can only use one or the other.

What purpose that serves, I have no idea.

Thanks mike. I suppose the purpose is to annoy me :). If I physically disconnect the dvi, does the component magically get enabled? Or do I need to go through menus.

Have you tried the svideo output on std def channels? How is it compared to the 3100?

Once you disconnect the DVI, the component becomes enabled again. You may have to reset the box (I don't remember), but there are no menus that you have to mess around with.

As for the 3100HD, I don't know... I never had one. But even on S-Video, I find the Pioneer to be as good as my old 2100 SD box.

according to this article time warner only has 25,000 high def customers in the nyc area (i'm not sure when the article was written)

http://www.nynewsday.com/business/ny-hdyv1130,0,1995671.story?coll=nyc-business-short-navigation

We need more than that to get them to give us more high def channels.

Originally posted by shk718
according to this article time warner only has 25,000 high def customers in the nyc area (i'm not sure when the article was written)

http://www.nynewsday.com/business/ny-hdyv1130,0,1995671.story?coll=nyc-business-short-navigation

We need more than that to get them to give us more high def channels. 25,000 x $100 per month = $2.5 million a month or $30 million a year. Without getting into TWC's cost structure, that sounds like a revenue source worth keeping happy. And it ain't shrinking!

My sister-in-law just got her Pioneer HD box (not sure which one). They (TWC) hooked it up to her HDTV with a std RCA cable (the yellow one) for video and the red and white audio cables. Should they have given her component cables or a DVI cable? She is getting video on the HD channels, I haven't been to her apartment to see what it looks like but she says it appears to be HD. She's in Manhattan. I live in CT and Cablevision gives you component cables when the install the SA4200HD box.

you definately need componant cables. Call TWCNYC. She is not getting HD. This seems to be a common problem as the TWC reps don't know what they are doing a lot of the time with HD. BTW - There is only 1 pioneer HD box for twcnyc.

- JB

It is disgraceful that TWCNYC charges to install an HD box and many of the techs do not know that you MUST use component cables to view high definition. I wonder how many TWCNYC subscribers don't realize that their TV isn't hooked up correctly. I bet it's quite a few as this isn't an isolated incident. As I've previously posted, it happened to me and a couple of friends.

Originally posted by lmitch55
. Should they have given her component cables or a DVI cable? She is getting video on the HD channels, I haven't been to her apartment to see what it looks like but she says it appears to be HD. She's in Manhattan. I live in CT and Cablevision gives you component cables when the install the SA4200HD box.


Your sister will need either component cables or a DVI cable to view HD signals in HD (the Pioneer box outputs only 480i when other cables are used). And I would be astounded to hear that TWCNYC will supply either of those. DVI is probably the better choice, but the Pioneer box's DVI output is incompatible with a number of HDTVs with DVI inputs. She should just buy a good quality but not overpriced set of component cables at her favorite retailer and, if she's feeding the box's audio to a receiver (instead of the TV) a digital audio cable if she wants to be able to enjoy DD 5.1.

Since your sister thinks that what she's seeing now looks like what she imagines HD might look like, just have her view Channels 706 or 713 after she's properly hooked up.

twcnyc will provide componant. They are actually of good quallity supposedly.

- JB

Originally posted by mrkaos
twcnyc will provide componant. They are actually of good quallity supposedly.

- JB

If so, JB, I stand corrected (I also sit corrected). TWCNYC has installed two SA3100HDs and two Pioneer 3510HDs in my apartment (at different times), and none of the "installers" came with any cables, component, DVI, or otherwise.

One question: because my TV has a DVI input should I use the DVI output? I'm not able to get DVI to work with either of my two fuji plasmas. I get the dreaded "connect your cable to an HDTV" message. The component signal looks fine.

If so, JB, I stand corrected (I also sit corrected I can verify that when you pick up a 3510 from the 23rd st office, you get a (fairly decent) set of component cables.

25,000 x $100 per month = $2.5 million $100/month for hi-def? I haven't been charged anything extra yet (though I suspect that will change now that I swapped my 3100 for a 3510).

Is the IR port on the 3510 an IR INPUT port, or an OUTPUT port?

I've been hearing that the IN-HD 1 & 2 along with ESPN-HD and others, when they come in the fall, will be a separate tier that will cost extra ( $9 + ).
Does anybody know?

Work Permit -- I also get the dreaded message. I figure about $100/month total as a rough average guesstimate for people with HD. If you want, use $75. I think my point is about 3/4 as strong in that case.

sickman

I get it. You mean your TOTAL bill. Thats true, one approach to servicing your customers is to make them happy.

I think Time Warner uses another approach. They figure I'll pay $100/month no matter how many hi-def channels they provide. As long as I don't switch to direct-tv (not practical when you live in a manhatten apartment), they could care less how happy I am.

I like your approach.

very true...although i think you meant to say that "they couldn't care less."

Originally posted by work permit
sickman

I get it. You mean your TOTAL bill. Thats true, one approach to servicing your customers is to make them happy.

I think Time Warner uses another approach. They figure I'll pay $100/month no matter how many hi-def channels they provide. As long as I don't switch to direct-tv (not practical when you live in a manhatten apartment), they could care less how happy I am.

I like your approach.


You hit the nail on the head. TWCNYC knows that no matter what I am going to pay for the full package. I may sit a whine about the lack of HD, but I have really two choices. Either I go OTA (not pratical) or I get TWCNYC. My building has a deal with them and we get a substantial discount, but on the flipside, I couldn't switch to RCN if I wanted to. This works for me since I pay about 30% less for my bill each month (very large building). However, it just goes to show that they really don't give a squat since I am locked in. I don't blame them. If you ran the company, would you raise your expenses with no additional profit? I think not.

- JB

I just hooked up HD at my parents' home in Florida using Directv and an OTA antenna. I believe that we paid approximately $10/month extra for a tier of ESPN-HD, HDNET, HDNET Movies and DiscoveryHD. SHO-HD and HBO-HD were included with their original package.

You hit the nail on the head. TWCNYC knows that no matter what I am going to pay for the full package. I may sit a whine about the lack of HD, but I have really two choices. Either I go OTA (not pratical) or I get TWCNYC. My building has a deal with them and we get a substantial discount, but on the flipside, I couldn't switch to RCN if I wanted to. This works for me since I pay about 30% less for my bill each month (very large building). However, it just goes to show that they really don't give a squat since I am locked in. I don't blame them. If you ran the company, would you raise your expenses with no additional profit? I think not.

mrkaos: What is your building's rate? I'm also in a big building (600+ units) and we get a special "bulk service charge" rate of $24.77, this is added to the Dbest package @ $73 which brings my bill to around $113. Just wondering if TWC is practicing selective rates ...

For everything including cable modem and all the movie channels I pay about $98. We also have a 100% subscription rate to at least basic cable (it is required by our coop).

- JB

Hi--

I am looking for some help. I just got the Pioneer 3510 stb and I am wondering how to access the set-up menu.

I can get to the grey screen menus, but I want the box to pass everything through natively. Not sure how to do this. Also, when I hit "bypass" on the remote, it gives me the option to adjust how I want to watch a 16:9 image, but I am using a 16:9 set. Does any one know how to change this setting?

Thanks,
Lewis

After pressing 'Settings' and then 'A', scroll down to 'Input Formats'. Each format you select (1080i, 720p, etc), will then be passed thru in it's native format. The non-selected ones will be upconverted to 1080i. I have all formats selected except for 480i which does not display correctly using TWCNYC.

Thanks...

I tried that and have a couple of problems. It seems that my box is displaying everything OK except 480p, not 480i. I want my TV to scale 480i, not my box given that I believe my TV probably has a better scaler than stb.

Also, in order to use the stretch modes on my TV rather than my box, I have to leave the box aspect ratio set to 4:3 rather than 16:9. When I change to 16:9 in the box settings, the picture looks worse.

How are you configured?

I have my box set up for a widescreen TV, and 4:3 with black bars (not stretched or zoomed).

Strange you have the problem with 480p, as I said it's a 480i problem for me.

I only use the Pioneer box for HD content though, and I use the SA PVR box for all my SD viewing.

Just watched the NFL playoffs on ABC in HD. This is the way sports should be on TV.

You tv probably does not have a better scaler than the pioneer box. The pio uses the farouja (sp) chipset, which is generally known as the best in the market (kudos to twc for changing from SA due to this - someone high in twc - not twcnyc - said this was his personal reason and choice). The strech may not be better though.

- JB

Originally posted by Sickman
25,000 x $100 per month = $2.5 million a month or $30 million a year. Without getting into TWC's cost structure, that sounds like a revenue source worth keeping happy. And it ain't shrinking!


Well, even if you count your entire bill (as in your example), since TW's overall trailing 12 month revenue is about $42 billion, I can assure you that the $30mm or so we represent is getting very little attention. Further, as has been pointed out, with the exception of a few of us at the margin who switch and/or cancel outright, at the end of the day we're all still TWC customers, and in any case the incremental revenues generated by HD in NYC is exactly $0. (Actually, I guess it's a few $ a month for the HD box, so it's not exactly $0).

All of this is to say that given the realities here, I'm quite pleased with the HD I have. When you think about the relative insignificance of this business (today), it's really a pleasant surprise that we have what we have. That will all change over the next year or two of course, as paid HD tiers come online.

And btw for whomever asked about TWC Staten Island, their existing plant is completely separate from that of the rest of the city - a completely different legacy system, so bandwidth comparisons will not be equivalent.

TM

To all TWC subscribers in NYC:

I just received the following information from the Technical Director/Lead On-Line Editor at WPIX-TV.

WPIX is in negotiations with Time Warner concerning carriage of the WPIX-DT signal.

This was pass on to me along with other information that I posted in the NYC metro OTA thread.

I am not a TWC subscriber but he told me to pass it along to you...

I tried that and have a couple of problems. It seems that my box is displaying everything OK except 480p, not 480i. I want my TV to scale 480i, not my box given that I believe my TV probably has a better scaler than stb.

Also, in order to use the stretch modes on my TV rather than my box, I have to leave the box aspect ratio set to 4:3 rather than 16:9. When I change to 16:9 in the box settings, the picture looks worse.

How are you configured?

I am having a similar problem. My new widescreen set was delivered today. If I indicate that I have a 16:9 widescreen set, most of my stretch modes are disabled - including the one which makes my SD look the most acceptable. By indicating 4:3, I can use Stretch Plus to stretch the SD picture so that it is palatable. Any thoughts???

I haven't yet seen the effect on a HD picture of leaving the setting on 4:3. Will report back later after I test it.

Originally posted by LisaM
Will report back later after I test it.
Please do.

I didn't see any effects on the HD picture by leaving the setting on 4:3. Perhaps someone else can make the same test.

I just recently picked up the Time Warner NYC High Definition Box after purchasing a Sony Hi Definition tv this weekend.

I'm absolutely thrilled with the hi def channels. They look phenomenal! However, I'm having problems with the non hi-def channels (which, as you all know, number in the hundreds on TW NYC).

The quality of the non-high definition channels is poor. The picture is cropped at the top and bottom and on the left and right sides. I called TW and they said that these channels are "trying" to broadcast in high definition, which is why they do not look right. They said I need to set up another connection to the auxiliary hook up on the back of my tv, so I can watch the non-high definition channels. Is this correct? What is the best way to do this? What connections do I use? Is it the "Video Out" connection on the back of the hi def-box to the "Auxiliary" connection on the back of the tv?

How does everyone else handle this?

use s-video for standard def and component or dvi for hd

Originally posted by bofnyc
The quality of the non-high definition channels is poor. The picture is cropped at the top and bottom and on the left and right sides. I called TW and they said that these channels are "trying" to broadcast in high definition, which is why they do not look right. They said I need to set up another connection to the auxiliary hook up on the back of my tv, so I can watch the non-high definition channels. Is this correct? What is the best way to do this? What connections do I use? Is it the "Video Out" connection on the back of the hi def-box to the "Auxiliary" connection on the back of the tv?

How does everyone else handle this?

The first response to your inquiry was certainly correct but necessarily generic because you don't specify which of the two possible TWCNYC HD boxes you're using, which Sony HDTV you have (and what its available inputs are) and whether you're viewing SD materials in a "normal" or altered (i.e., "stretched," "panoramic," or "zoom") mode.

The TWCNYC explanation that you cite is nonsense. The quality of SD materials varies enormously from channel to channel; viewing low-quality signals on a huge HDTV merely reveals defects that aren't visible on a relatively small SDTV. Depending upon what equipment you have, SD may look better when displayed via S-Video rather than component or DVI. The "cropping" effect you describe, however, is probably caused by using one of your TV's altered display modes. In my own setup (a 50" Samsung DLP HDTV connected to the Pioneer 3510HD STB), the S-Video alternative doesn't produce a more pleasing picture compared to component, possibly because the component imputs have been ISF-calibrated and the S-Videos have not.

Originally posted by Manatus
In my own setup (a Samsung DLP HDTV connected to the Pioneer 3510HD STB), the S-Video alternative doesn't produce a more pleasing picture compared to component.

Agreed. I really do not notice any difference between S-Video and Component on standard def on my 50" plasma. With the 3510HD... the ability to stretch component SD does it for me to never use S-Video.

FWIW on my set up (3100, Marantz S2 PJ, 110" screen), SD quality is noticeably better with s-video than with component...the most obvious difference is that via component my SD channels take on a dark tint.

TM