Jergens - thanks for the tip...rushed home after work with a renewed sense of purpose and vigor on the HDTV project.

Composite in --> Composite out:

No video. No audio. Still do get the TiVo menu though - nice blue color, and friendly "pop" when I press a button on the remote. Fantastic.

As much as I DON'T think its a hardware issue, it might be a hardware issue.

Originally posted by randymac88
Was hoping perhaps someone on this thread has come across a similar problem, and at the very least, I think offers a puzzle to the group to noodle around on. I sincerely apologize if I'm posting in the wrong area...but I'm a TWC NYC subscriber, and I think the problem may have to do with TiVo and its interaction with the Pioneer 3510.

I'm trying to hook up my TiVo Series 2 box to my new HD set, and have been having huge problems. Note: I'm NOT trying to pass the HD signal through TiVo...rather just go around it.

Anyway, so I've got the 3510's DVI-out going into the TV set to carry the HD signals (Video 7 on the TV). Then I've got the 3510's s-video out (and audio cables) going out to the TiVo, and then TiVo to the TV through composite cables (Video 1). I get no TV signal...but I do get TiVo's on-screen menus. As such, I know that there is a signal going from TiVo to the TV, just not the video signal.

Now, just for kicks, I connected the s-video out directly into video 1 (not through TiVo), and I DID get a video signal. So I know that the 3510 is definitely sending both the HD signal through the DVI, and well as the analog signal through the s-video.

The bottom line: Somewhere inside my Tivo, the video signal is getting lost, and it's either the 3510's fault, or TiVo's fault. Has anyone else experienced this problem??

Unfortunately not... I also have an S2 TiVo and a Pioneer 3510HD with a similar set-up (I use component out not DVI, and I use S-VHS into and out of the TiVo) and it works like a charm - in fact I can TiVo down-converted HD content anamorphically, which isn't HD (obviously) but much better than you might think for time-shifting.

I guess you have tried everything, but have you tried connecting both the DVI and the S-VHS to your TV, and then switching between video sources on your TV? To me what sounds most likely is that somehow the S-VHS port is getting bypassed when you have a DVI connection plugged in as clearly your TiVo is capable of putting something out as you see its OS, but apologies if you've checked for that.

One other thought - are you sure you have configured TiVo to be looking for an S-VHS cable? It isn't auto-sensing. You need to go to Tivo Messages & Setup / Settings / TiVo DVR Setup / Cable-Satellite Box / Connection to TiVo DVR and follow the instructions. Good luck.

Originally posted by alexjohnson
Unfortunately not... I also have an S2 TiVo and a Pioneer 3510HD with a similar set-up (I use component out not DVI, and I use S-VHS into and out of the TiVo) and it works like a charm - in fact I can TiVo down-converted HD content anamorphically, which isn't HD (obviously) but much better than you might think for time-shifting.

I guess you have tried everything, but have you tried connecting both the DVI and the S-VHS to your TV, and then switching between video sources on your TV? To me what sounds most likely is that somehow the S-VHS port is getting bypassed when you have a DVI connection plugged in as clearly your TiVo is capable of putting something out as you see its OS, but apologies if you've checked for that.

One other thought - are you sure you have configured TiVo to be looking for an S-VHS cable? It isn't auto-sensing. You need to go to Tivo Messages & Setup / Settings / TiVo DVR Setup / Cable-Satellite Box / Connection to TiVo DVR and follow the instructions. Good luck.

I misread the post the first time. It's possible that when the DVI output is used all other outputs on the box are disabled (I forget whether this is the case with the Pioneer box, but some devices with DVI out work that way). Just to test if there's a problem with Tivo, I'd suggest just unhooking the DVI from the back of your box (maybe resetting the box as well) and then checking to see whether you get anything.

Yes, I believe that is the case with the 3510. When I use DVI my component is disabled.

Thanks guys. Initially I thought that was the case - the DVI disabled all other outputs from the box. To test it, I hooked the composite out directly into the TV - a separate video input and not through Tivo - with the DVI connected, and I DID get a video signal through it. Then I tried through the s-video, and I did get a video signal again. So I know that the composite and s-video outputs DO work when the DVI is enabled...just not the component outputs.

So basically, the video signal is getting to Tivo, it's just not getting from Tivo to the TV.

Thanks again for all of your help-

Did anyone with a Pio HD STB experience a box reset around 7:757pm tonight? My box shut itself off, and I had to reboot. When it came back, the problems I was experiencing with the Pio box DVI and my Sammy DLP when activating the channel guide on a HD channel has been fixed, and the channel guide activates without 1st going blank and then a snow screen for about 2-3 secs.

VOD not working for 8 days!

I tried to call but couldn't get thru with the VOD choice via the phone. I finally get thru on the 6th day

Tech tells me to do a soft boot and hard boot and nothing.He thens tells me to go to channel 996 and see if there's a IP address .

No IP address shows up on my box.

He said they will be working on it and should be back up and running in 30 hours.

Well i waited 48 hours and still no VOD. I call again tonight and they make me go thru the same thing all over again but this time they also reset my box and uplug it and nothing.

I'm put on hold and we get disconnected!!!

I call back and on hold again and i go thru the same thing all over again. Softboot/hardboot and reset and VOD still not working because i have no IP address.

I'm informed that a tech will be out on the 28th of FEb!!!!!!!!

I'm a new subscriber and only have this account for 25 days and they want me to wait till the 28th!!!! Are they crazy!!!!!

I spent almost a total of 3 hours on the phone tonight and it's still not working!

What am i to do?

Has anyone had this problem and how was it fix?

There's no outage in my area. I have the 3510 box which has work until this VOD trouble.

Thanks for listening to my rant:)


BR

Try a few more reboots. My VOD goes down all the time - it sucks. I don't really watch it that much though since I have the DVR.

Is VOD really a problem with the Pioneer 3510HD?
Please post your experience so we can assess how widespread this problem is.

have never had a problem. A few hours here and there, but it was the same with the non hd box.

- jb

The problem for me has been the same with every box I have had - Pio, DVR, and 3100. Happened at my old address as well.

I would doubt that it is unique to the Pio box. It is more likely the signal strength.

Are you using any splitters? Cable modem?

No spiltters and no cable modem.

It worked fine until 8 days ago.

It's a straight run from the cable box in the hallway to my apt which is about 25 ft tops.

I tried rebooting numerous times and nada.

BR

i have splitters and cable modem. probably over 200 ft of cable in the apt alone split 4 times plus cable modem. No real probs. I live in the UWS of manhattan.

- jb

Sorry if this has been asked before. I'm awaiting the delivery of my first EDTV, which should (knock on wood) arrive in about 6 weeks or so. I was hoping to have the rest of my home theater setup complete before the TV arrives, including the Pioneer HD box and all related cables.

So my question is, will the Pioneer box work with an old-school Sharp 27" CRT set? I know I won't be able to get the HD channels, but will the rest of the digital cable channels work?

pace1313 - yes, just hook up s-video, composite, or rf and you will get all the channels minus HD.

TWC may not let you keep the box if you don't have an HD set. Let us know what happens.

Originally posted by dkan24
pace1313 - yes, just hook up s-video, composite, or rf and you will get all the channels minus HD.

TWC may not let you keep the box if you don't have an HD set. Let us know what happens.

My TWCNYC installer arrived TWO HOURS before my HDTV set and he wouldn't leave the box. I had to wait a week for another appointment.

Originally posted by dkan24
Just went to the RCN website to check:

Congratulations! RCN provides service to your area!

Your Address:
*** W 5*
new york, NY 10019

The following services are available to the address shown above:


Dialup Internet

Would you like to sign up for RCN service now?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dkan24 - try calling them. I went to their website and did the same thing, and I got the same message, but when I called it was a whole different story - right now I'm using an RCN high speed cable modem and I have a working RCN HD box. Of course it's the Motorola 6200 instead of the 6208, and the won't let me swap it, I have to make an appointment.

Is anyone getting the All-Star game in HD?

Sloper- Just curious as to your experience with RCN - good or bad? I'm frustrated that I don't get ESPN HD and might actually enjoy moving my business away from TWC. Not to mention the HD DVR box.

RCN may not be around much longer. I do network engineering for cable companies (unfortunately not TWCNYC or RCN-NYC otherwise we might have some more HD Channels). All my work is travel to elsewhere in the US, but I am privy to some info regarding cable providers because of this. Although this is nothing new, I would very leary of RCN in general since they are in finnacial trouble. At least wait a month or so before switching since there may be some major annoucements.

- JB

Originally posted by mrkaos
RCN may not be around much longer. I do network engineering for cable companies (unfortunately not TWCNYC or RCN-NYC otherwise we might have some more HD Channels). All my work is travel to elsewhere in the US, but I am privy to some info regarding cable providers because of this. Although this is nothing new, I would very leary of RCN in general since they are in finnacial trouble. At least wait a month or so before switching since there may be some major annoucements.

- JB

As a shareholder or VC, you might care. As a subscriber why should you care? And even if RCN does simply go down the tubes, it is very unlikely that their creditors will simply write off the value of all the cabling and installed base, given that those revenues would be the only way they would have any hope of extracting any value at all from the assets. They would look to sustain those revenues for as long as possible until a buyer could be found. I have no knowledge or opinion about RCN, but I do think that if they're the right service provider for you, you should pick them. Some of my friends have them, and are very happy.

true..as an end user, it isnt as big of a deal, but I wouldnt want to change and adjust to a new provider with different channel number and interface if they might change in a very short time. Like I said. Wait a bit since there is probably going to be a big annoucement within the next 30 days.

- jb

Yeah...there are some practical issues here that some would rather not deal with...reprogramming your universal remote, your TiVo, your online bill payment set up, etc. Sure, this is one time stuff, but if you have to do it twice in rapid succession it could get annoying. More annoying still when the time comes to switch back to TWC and you have to fight all over again to get the 3510 :D

Anyway, it's only a matter of time before RCN files chapter. As for their creditors, based on the existing RCN debt load, even if TWC pays 'top $' for the existing subs, creditors will be quite stung.

As for customers, I guess the choice is yours. To me it's not worth the hassle.

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Yeah...there are some practical issues here that some would rather not deal with...reprogramming your universal remote, your TiVo, your online bill payment set up, etc. Sure, this is one time stuff, but if you have to do it twice in rapid succession it could get annoying. More annoying still when the time comes to switch back to TWC and you have to fight all over again to get the 3510 :D

Anyway, it's only a matter of time before RCN files chapter. As for their creditors, based on the existing RCN debt load, even if TWC pays 'top $' for the existing subs, creditors will be quite stung.

As for customers, I guess the choice is yours. To me it's not worth the hassle.

TM

To each his own, but my point was even if RCN did file for bankruptcy, it's very unlikely that you would be left without cable service. If TWC bought the assets or even the shell of the company - which seems less likely as I doubt what the City will have had in mind in granting a second franchise - then you would not expect new cable boxes to be deployed until the next generation, if then. TWC (or Comcast, or Cox) wouldn't just replace expensive HD cable boxes for the sake of standardisation alone. I would still suggest that if RCN meets your needs right now, there is no reason to listen to any FUD.

Hey, I thought this was the TWC thread, not the RCN thread ;)

Adelphia went bankrupt and service was not disrupted for customers. Ch. 11 only really hurts investors and creditors of the company. The only customer downside is that roll out of new services/products/channels is sometimes very slowed due to the fact that companies are hesitant to start a contract with a going concern unless they get some upfront payment. Note: RCN NYC already has more channels and the DVR so this doesen't seem to be an issue either if you currently have RCN as an option, which I do BTW.

Personally, I wouldn't switch from TWC as I really like NY1 (owned and managed by TWC and not available on RCN) and eventually the programming and the DVR will come. In the long run, TWC NYC will remain competitive and give us what we want. We're the customers and we're always right!

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
Hey, I thought this was the TWC thread, not the RCN thread ;)

Adelphia went bankrupt and service was not disrupted for customers. Ch. 11 only really hurts investors and creditors of the company. The only customer downside is that roll out of new services/products/channels is sometimes very slowed due to the fact that companies are hesitant to start a contract with a going concern unless they get some upfront payment. Note: RCN NYC already has more channels and the DVR so this doesen't seem to be an issue either if you currently have RCN as an option, which I do BTW.

Personally, I wouldn't switch from TWC as I really like NY1 (owned and managed by TWC and not available on RCN) and eventually the programming and the DVR will come. In the long run, TWC NYC will remain competitive and give us what we want. We're the customers and we're always right!

Drew

Agreed! I actually like TWC... They seem to do a good job at a cost comparable to DirecTV (the other option in my building), and I don't need to use an aerial to pick up my local channels in HD... When HDTiVo comes along I'll reassess, though even that doesn't get over the problem of my local channels, which I watch much more than even HBO. Give me the SA-8000HD, WPIX-DT and WWOR-DT, and don't bundle stuff I want with American sports that I don't, and I'll never leave! (Well, until the next great technology or channel comes along, obviously! :D )

I called RCN and confirmed that it was not available in my building.

That 5 mbs cable modem looks pretty sweet though! (Let's start hounding TWC for that after we get our DVR, MSG, CH11, Starz, ESPN, HDNET, Playboy...)

Originally posted by mrkaos
true..as an end user, it isnt as big of a deal, but I wouldnt want to change and adjust to a new provider with different channel number and interface if they might change in a very short time. Like I said. Wait a bit since there is probably going to be a big annoucement within the next 30 days.
- jb
The 30-day tease is intriguing, although today I made an appointment, 1 week off, to have my RCN 5100 converter exchanged with a DCT6208 HD DVR converter. TWC's delay with the SA8000HD DVR until this fall was too long. I have both cable services and was planning on the 8000HD DVR to cure the contrast-spoiling faint image fog from my TWC 3100HD converter. Looks like I'll also have to visit TWC and swap for a Pioneer HD converter. (BTW, hope to drop RCN's phone service ASAP, since their "oops" billing techniques and frequent threats to drop phone service following oops billing finally became too much.)

Any further hints on what might occur with RCN?

More directly on thread topic, does anyone have any idea how TWC is planning to bump up its capacity for more HD channels? Perhaps someone familiar with Cisco networking might have a clue. ;-) I offered three speculative fixes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3355113#post3355113) recently. -- John

The holding company for RCN's operations is currently working on a restructuring package for its debt. They most likely will do a prepackaged bankruptcy, with the debt holders reducing their principal in exchange for the equity in the company. Current equity gets wiped out (including me; should have sold when it traded at $75). However, the operating companies, which for the most part are not liabile for the debt, are not going to be filing. Bottom line, no service disruptions are likely, although I question how willing the company will be to make capital expenditures to maintain and enhance their services until the restructuring is complete. Hopefully it will happen quickly.

Originally posted by John Mason

More directly on thread topic, does anyone have any idea how TWC is planning to bump up its capacity for more HD channels? Perhaps someone familiar with Cisco networking might have a clue. ;-) I offered three speculative fixes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3355113#post3355113) recently. -- John


I am a cisco engineer and I do know some about cable distro systems, but I no nothing about TWCNYC's system. I have never worked with them so I have no insight as to their problems. I would love to help them in any way I can.

Someone mentioned something about RCN 5mbps cable modem. Unless this is new, their cable service IMO has been significantly lower speed that TWCNYC, which is ~3mbps.

- JB

Originally posted by randymac88
Sloper- Just curious as to your experience with RCN - good or bad? I'm frustrated that I don't get ESPN HD and might actually enjoy moving my business away from TWC. Not to mention the HD DVR box.

No complaints thus far, although I justed moved into the city so I never had TWC to compare to. Also, my HDTV won't be arriving until next week, so I can't say anything about the HD service. But the cable modem is awesome.

If you owned RCN at $75, ouch. The article below couldn't be any clearer. It appears that Ch 11 is eminent and the debt holders are looking to play nice. Could be a nice opportunity to reduce debt (at the expense of shareholders and creditors) and come out of Ch 11 looking like a real fighter. The ironic revenue from the new Time Warner facility in NYC should be a nice addition to the bottom line.

Drew


RCN Restructuring Talks Continue


By Mike Farrell -- Multichannel News, 2/17/2004 5:11:00 PM

Troubled cable overbuilder RCN Corp. said late Saturday that it was in negotiations to restructure its debt, adding that any agreement would likely take place through a Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization.

RCN said it would not make interest payments on its 10.125% senior notes. That decision could trigger defaults on all of its debt -- about $1.1 billion in bond obligations and $520 million in bank facilities.

However, the Princeton, N.J.-based overbuilder said it has reached a forbearance agreement with its lenders and bondholders, which agreed not to declare an event of default until at least March 1.

The interest payment on the 10.125% notes was due Jan. 15 and, at that time, RCN said it was negotiating with bondholders concerning payment -- a move many observers saw as a tactic to get bondholders to accept a debt-for-equity swap. The 30-day grace period to make the $10.3 million interest payment expired Feb. 13.

To help move the restructuring process along, the MSO last week named John Dubel -- who led a restructuring at WorldCom Inc. -- president and chief operating officer.

In a prepared statement, RCN said it hoped the continuing negotiations would lead to "a successful consensual financial-restructuring plan in the near term." However, later in its statement, the company said it "expects any financial restructuring to be implemented through reorganization under Chapter 11."

That Chapter 11 filing would be at the holding-company level -- RCN?s market operating subsidiaries would not be part of the bankruptcy filing, according to the statement.

RCN has set up a Web site (rcntomorrow.com) to provide updates to the restructuring process.

"We expect to emerge from any consensual restructuring as a stronger, more viable and more competitive company, positioned for long-term success," RCN chairman and CEO David McCourt said in a prepared statement

RCN shares fell 39% (31 cents each) to 49 cents per share Tuesday.

jergans, was there ever a reply from TWC to your note from 2-10?

Found this on another site.... BOY... TIME WARNER CABLE FREAKING SUCKS COMPARED TO CABLEVISION...!!!!!!!!!!!!



Cablevision Adds New York's WNBC and Bravo HD+ to Its Expansive High-
Definition Programming Slate

iO Digital Cable Customers Now Have Access To Thirteen
Channels In
High-Definition, Including Popular Local Broadcast Stations, Sports
And Movie
Networks

BETHPAGE, N.Y., Feb. 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Cablevision
Systems
Corporation (NYSE: CVC) today announced the addition of WNBC New
York and
Bravo HD+ to its expansive high-definition programming slate, which
is
available to iO: Interactive Optimum(R) digital cable customers at no
additional cost. iO customers now have access to 13 channels in
high-definition, including WCBS-TV New York, Thirteen HD (PBS), WNYW-
5 (FOX),
MSG Network, Fox Sports Net New York, HBO, SHOWTIME, Cinemax HD,
STARZ! HD,
The Movie Channel HD, iN DEMAND'S INHD and the industry's only high-
definition
video on demand offering, featuring new release movies and unique
titles
originally seen in IMAX(R) theaters.
"The availability of high-definition programming continues to be
a
defining element of our iO: Interactive Optimum digital cable
service," said
Kristin Dolan, Cablevision's senior vice president of digital and
video
product management. "WNBC and Bravo HD+ are excellent additions to
a slate of
high-definition programming that is already among the industry's most
comprehensive. iO features more high-definition programming than
DirecTV or
Dish, which is in keeping with the superior value, content and
technology that
iO represents."
"Cablevision has been an industry leader in launching new
technologies,
including high-definition television, VOD and voice," said Henry
Ahn, Vice
President, Affiliate Sales, NBC Cable Networks. "We are thrilled
that they
have added NBC's high-definition content to their line-up. These
launches
will bring some of the most popular shows on television, including
The West
Wing, ER and Law and Order, to audiences on a whole new level."
WNBC is the flagship television station of the NBC Network and
broadcasts
throughout the greater New York metropolitan area. Digital viewers
of WNBC
can enjoy the full schedule of NBC's high definition programming,
which
includes much of the network's prime time line-up and The Tonight
Show With
Jay Leno.
Bravo HD+ is a division of Bravo, an NBC Cable Network.
Launched in third
quarter 2003, Bravo HD+ offers contemporary arts and popular
entertainment
programming in 100% 1080i HD, 24/7. Programming includes the most-
honored
series in television history, The West Wing and the 2002 Winter
Olympic Games.
Performing arts and entertainment content includes Cirque du
Soleil: Varekai;
Music in High Places, featuring top recording artists performing at
the most
ancient sites on earth; All Access, featuring Grammy Award-winning
rock stars
such as Sting, Sheryl Crow and Dave Matthews; and Cinderella's
Ballet.
For iO customers with high-definition television sets,
Cablevision offers
HD-capable converter boxes at no additional cost over the standard
box rental
fee. High-definition feeds of premium networks are available to all
customers
who subscribe to the standard-definition version of the networks.
Cablevision provides cable service to nearly 3 million customers
in the
New York metropolitan area. Currently, more than 900,000, or 30%,
of these
cable customers are iO digital cable customers -- up from just 6.5%
digital
penetration at the end of 2002. iO offers customers access to more
than 200
channels, including 50 premium movie channels, 45 channels of
commercial-free
digital music, more than 700 titles available on demand, an
interactive
programming guide, 13 channels of high-definition programming and
other
benefits.

About Cablevision
Cablevision Systems Corporation is one of the nation's leading
entertainment and telecommunications companies. Its cable television
operations serve 3 million households in the New York metropolitan
area. The
company's advanced telecommunications offerings include its iO:
Interactive
Optimum digital television offering, Optimum Online high-speed
Internet
service, Optimum Voice digital voice-over-cable service, and its
Lightpath
integrated business communications services. Cablevision's Rainbow
Media
Holdings LLC operates several successful programming businesses,
including
AMC, IFC (The Independent Film Channel), and other national and
regional
networks. Rainbow also is a 50 percent partner in Fox Sports Net. In
2003,
Cablevision's Rainbow DBS launched its VOOM satellite service, the
first
service to offer a comprehensive array of high-definition (HD)
television
programming. In addition to its telecommunications and programming
businesses,
Cablevision is the controlling owner of Madison Square Garden and
its sports
teams, the New York Knicks, Rangers and Liberty. The company also
operates New
York's famed Radio City Music Hall, and owns and operates Clearview
Cinemas.






And no extra charge for the set top box or the channels (provided you already pay for the premium channels) Jesus. Makes me want to move.

Sigh.

TIME WARNER... YOU NEED TO GET WITH THE TIMES.

-excandide

!@&^%*!! Sorry, can't say what I really want to say. !!@%^&*!

Not all that surprising. As deals are made for programming to be shown on Voom, then it is logical that they will be added to cablevision as long there is available "bandwidth".

You know you’re living in the bizarro world
when we start wishing that we had Cablevision.

How did that happen??? From my experiences, they have always been deservedly loathed by all-- since the dawn of cable.

Well I guess now they’re getting new and fitting respect.

And what about us?
We can’t even get a timely answer to a great (Jergans) letter

Cablevision does have the fastest cable modem in the country sometimes I see 6-7 Mbps. My parents have it.

I was at my grandma's the other day, she lives in Brooklyn. She didn't even have cable until 7 years ago (when they gave her "wireless" cable) from Cablevision. Now she has double the HD channels as me. Thats just wrong :)

We ned to get some serious answers from a tech at TWC about the bandwidth problem. I understand that the Pioneer SW HD DVR has not been released anywhere in the country. But the lack of InHD, HDNet and to a lesser degree MSG, and Fox Sports is very frustrating. When can we expect these channels? We need answers. Did Bob Watson ever respond?

Just adding fuel to the fire...got my new bill and it is $7 and change more than last month with the rate hikes. I have the it's all here package including roadrunner, (2) 3510HD boxes and (1) SA8000DVR, bill went up from $148 to $155. I wouldn't mind so much if we were getting all the HD channels were are supposed to be getting...

Originally posted by pciav
I wouldn't mind so much if we were getting all the HD channels were are supposed to be getting...

"Supposed to"??? According to whom?

Originally posted by rgrossman
"Supposed to"??? According to whom?

By my own accord and the agreements in place and availability throughout the country on TWC- ie WB, UPN, INHD, HDNET. I'm not asking for what they do not have agreements signed for already, just what is in place right now. Take a look at these links:

TWCKC (http://www.twckc.com/services/HDTV/)

TWCLA (http://www.accesstimewarner.com/cable/hdtv/)

I'll buy KC is smaller market, but what about LA?? They seem to have enough bandwidth and I'm sure they have almost as many foreign language channels (http://www.accesstimewarner.com/cable/digitalcable/digitalcable.cfm?section=internationalprogramming) as we have also. The other thing that irks me is that TWCNYC website is pathetic compared to other parts of the country. I'm sorry, but we are getting screwed. :mad:

Originally posted by Excandide

And no extra charge for the set top box or the channels (provided you already pay for the premium channels) Jesus. Makes me want to move.

Sigh.

TIME WARNER... YOU NEED TO GET WITH THE TIMES.

-excandide
I not sure what you are talking about, but TWCNYC does not charge extra for their HD STB over their standard Digital STB

My bad about the box charge... Looking over the bill it is the same price as a normal box. But I see that I started a fire here in the forum. Who Knew We Would All Be Jealous Of Cablevision One Day?

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
DID WE EVER GET A RESPONSE FOR THE LETTER TO TIME WARNER?
I'm very interested. Can someone send him the cablevision article? So they can see?

Sigh

Originally posted by drew138
John, I have to be honest, the Pioneer HD box is a lateral move at best. It's nice that the box can stretch the SD pictures, but the S-Video and Video feeds of SD pictures is not as good as the SA3100. As a result, I no longer use my TV's stretch mode, which I like better than the Pio HD stretch mode. The box is also a lot more jittery than the SA3100. It takes a little longer to change channels and the programming guide operates with a slight delay that I find annoying. The overall PQ is a bit nicer and the DVI connection is nice too. Overall, considering the effort I expended into getting the Pioneer, I wouldn't do it again. The SA worked with few operating flaws. The Pio is a better box, but it has operating flaws (i.e., jittery menu, stretch mode no good, HD/SD channel switching causes black screens..)

Anyone know if they've fixed apparent problems with the Pioneer HD converter from this autumn '03 post? Watch a lot of S-video stretched to 16:9 by my RPTV with my 3100HD, so I'd hate to encounter all these glitches with a switch to the Pioneer. My 3100HD, as I outlined in the 2nd post in this thread, has an objectionable image fog that spoils contrast and diminishes higher-resolution detail. (As outlined elsewhere, got my RCN 6208 DVR HD converter/recorder yesterday and it works fine.) -- John

John - does the DVR have active firewire and/ or DVI?

I am a cablevision customer in Connecticut and it is funny to see some people wishing they were cablevision customers. Until September/0ctober of last year we did not have any HD here in CT. Then for another month or so we only had two channels WCBS and Thirteen. Things have really improved in a short time. However TWC in NYC had HD years ago and we still do not have WNBC.

Can anyone make a list of HD channels available from twcny as of today?

I just learned that my building will be wired by tw soon.

HBO-HD, CBS-HD, SHO-HD, NBC-HD, FOX-ED, Discovery-HD, ABC-HD, PBS-HD (Channels 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, & 713)

OK, great. Thanks!

Which box should I ask for? The 8000HD?

8000HD doesn't exist yet in NY. I have the Pioneer 3510HD and for the most part am happy with it. There are some others floating around, Pace?? SA??

There is an SA box too, but forum consensus and IMO, the pio is the right box to have. The reasons have been stated here a million times, but just the fact that you can stretch over component and use the guide while watching HD (albiet a little slow when in HD) make it worth it alone.

- JB

Originally posted by dkan24
John - does the DVR have active firewire and/ or DVI?
RCN's DCT6208 converter/DVR does have DVI-D and firewire ports. But, since I have no way to use them yet, I haven't checked to see if they're activated. The unit does have the latest 7.07 firmware update. If firewire is active, perhaps an upcoming HD DVD player/recorder would be preferable for archiving 6208-captured HD rather than JVC's glitch-plagued 30k/40k VCRs. (I rarely watch recordings, though, with such a torrent of cable programming available 24/7.)

With the Pioneer box, assume then that no one's having problems with the S-video out (assuming I used my RPTV for 16:9 stretching)? -- John

Originally posted by John Mason
..With the Pioneer box, assume then that no one's having problems with the S-video out (assuming I used my RPTV for 16:9 stretching)? -- John

John,

I'm assuming that your RPTV doesn't accept 480i via component that is why you want to use the S-Video? When I first got the 3510HD, I tried the S-Video and noticed no real difference from the SA3100 as far as S-Video quality goes; however, PQ via component for 480i is for the most part far superior to the S-Video feed. I'm jealous of your HD-PVR... :)

Thanks for the 3510HD experience re S-video, Phil. My RPTV goes ape (complete sync loss) with 480i into YPbPr. My 3100HD's upconverted 1080i of all 480i--old story--looks fuzzy and washed out. And my set won't stretch 480p fed into YPrPb, but, if it's an option, 480p stretched by the 3510 might work out.

Currently, 480p into YPbPr from RCN stretched by its 5100 or 6208 doesn't look so hot, mostly I suspect because my Basic channels are analog and have a bit of noise. TWC's digital versions of any analog SD are usually better. (Some higher RCN channels, aside from HD, are digital and suspect now I'll drop most/all of TWC's, since they couldn't organize a HD DVR delivery, and switch to RCN's premiums, VOD, digital SD, etc. ) -- John

When you enable all outputs (480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i) on the Pioneer 3510HD box, does it output signals at whatever resolution they are coming in -- and the TV upconverts them or downconverts them to its native resolution (i.e. 480p in the case of an EDTV set)?
Is this how it works?
I have a Panny TH-42PWD6UY and subscribe to TWCNYC.
Is enabling all outputs on the Pioneer STB the best thing to do with this TV?

Thank you.

Originally posted by Maurice2
When you enable all outputs (480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i) on the Pioneer 3510HD box, does it output signals at whatever resolution they are coming in -- and the TV upconverts them or downconverts them to its native resolution (i.e. 480p in the case of an EDTV set)?
Is this how it works?
I have a Panny TH-42PWD6UY and subscribe to TWCNYC.
Is enabling all outputs on the Pioneer STB the best thing to do with this TV?

Thank you.

Yes, you have it correct. It outputs whatever format it is broadcast in natively. On your Panny 6UY, I do not think it accepts 720p, I could be wrong and have the consumer model mixed up - check your documentation or a quick check in the Plasma threads. If that is the case, only enable 480i, 480p, and 1080i.

Originally posted by pciav
On your Panny 6UY, I do not think it accepts 720p
Yes it does. The consumer model does not. Thanks for corroborating what I thought.

9:25pm here in Manhattan - anyone else having problems with ch. 704, WNBC-HD? No picture - blank screen here

Upper West Side - no picture at 9:30

Regarding WNBC-DT, have they stopped optically zooming 4:3 non-HD to about 15:9 (thin black sidebars)? Haven't seen the zoomed images for a while. -- John

Noticed that too. I also noticed that the PQ in these instances now seems inferior. i.e. when they were zooming to 14-15:9 the PQ seemed quite nice considering it wasn't HD. Now at 4:3 it looks much less pleasing.

TM

Hi All, I recently got a 42" Fujitsu HD set and went to 23rd street to swap out my box, what I got in return is the Scientific Atlanta 3100HD box...

When I am on the HD channels, if the programs are not broadcast in widescreen, I only can watch them with bars on the side in 4:3... is this normal to anyones knowledge?

Also, with all thats being written about the PIO box, whats the big difference between the two (besides the DVI output)?

I, like everyone, would like to get the best quality possible with the most options and just need to know if I should go switch out my box again.

Incidentally, the woman at Time Warner asked if I had a TV that supported 1080i, I said I did and she gave me the SCI ATL box...

thanks for all of your continous help and great reading.

Close to swapping my long-used 3100HD for a Pioneer. Yes, sidebars for upconverted but non-HD programs is normal for the 3100HD, which upconverts its YPbPr outputs to 1080i. The Pioneer, as I understand it, lets you stretch YPbPr outputs with other than 1080i only, and has the advantage, from reports, of not putting a faint white fog over images that spoils contrast and therefor diminishes higher-rez details. There are mixed reports on this 3100HD fog, which may require larger displays and A-B comparisons with non-3100HD sources to notice, such as CBS HD via an OTA tuner versus the 3100HD. I don't have the fog with the 5100/6208 converters used for my 2nd RCN cable subscription (or a CBS-OTA-tuner comparison) -- John

Regarding the Pioneer v. SCI box, I was given the SCI box during my installation last month and immediately went to trade it for the Pioneer. The big gotcha about the SCI box is that it has no aspect ratio control for non-HD content. The box upconverts everything to 1080i and shows sidebars for non-HD content. Being that I began to notice a burn-in while being lazy about switching inputs the SCI box is a no no for me. The Pioneer box is much better and would recommend it in a hearbeat.

Excellent, thanks for the quick feedback... How does that pic look when stretched? I am assuming better than the regular broadcast...

Don't even notice the difference anymore...the box has a good algorithm for stretching.

Originally posted by debaser
Hi All, I recently got a 42" Fujitsu HD set and went to 23rd street to swap out my box, what I got in return is the Scientific Atlanta 3100HD box...

When I am on the HD channels, if the programs are not broadcast in widescreen, I only can watch them with bars on the side in 4:3... is this normal to anyones knowledge?


Just a note: If you're watching a 4:3 broadcast on an HD station, you cannot get rid of the black bars using either box. The reason is that even though the content is only 4:3, the signal being sent out by the station is 16:9. The black bars are put there by the station itself.

That is, the black bars are part of the picture itself. Since the "picture" is 16:9, there's nothing to stretch.

Originally posted by jergans
Just a note: If you're watching a 4:3 broadcast on an HD station, you cannot get rid of the black bars using either box. The reason is that even though the content is only 4:3, the signal being sent out by the station is 16:9. The black bars are put there by the station itself.

That is, the black bars are part of the picture itself. Since the "picture" is 16:9, there's nothing to stretch.

As reluctant as I am to question the letter-writing guru :), are you sure? I was under the impression the Scientific-Atlanta box did that but the Pioneer 3510HD did not - though the answer is the same; you are stuck with an unzoomable 4:3 picture. CBS does broadcasts 4:3 in 16:9 by adding grey bars, which I hate even more as they're much more obvious, though it is supposed to prevent plasma burn-in. Speaking of which, can you manually adjust the picture size? That's what I do on my plasma screen - I switch 4:3 to "wide" (a stretch mode that keeps the centre in proportion) and fill up the rest of the screen to +25. I know people feel pretty passionately about this - personally I would rather have minor peripheral distortion than black or grey bars. YMMV.

Thansk again, but I think we are discussin two different things here... I know that the black bars will still be there deending on the broadcast, but what I am concerned about is the ability to get rid of, by stretching the (usually grey) bars on the SIDES of the picture... My SCI ATL box does not allow me to do this now, but I understand that the PIO box does.

What ever became of the controversy surrounding the Panasonic 42PWD6UY not being compatible with the DVI output of the Pio 3510 HD box? Was this settled? I couldn't tell from reading past posts.

Originally posted by debaser
Thansk again, but I think we are discussin two different things here... I know that the black bars will still be there deending on the broadcast, but what I am concerned about is the ability to get rid of, by stretching the (usually grey) bars on the SIDES of the picture... My SCI ATL box does not allow me to do this now, but I understand that the PIO box does.

No, we understand. With the S-A box you are stuck with vertical bars that (I think) the box adds to any 4:3 image on any channel you watch through the component connection. The Pio box has built-in stretch modes that are fairly basic, but do not add these vertical bars on SD channels. So, you can watch the WB11 using your component connections, and the picture will fill the screen (if it is set properly). You can then apply your TV's smarter modes to improve the ratios.

What the Pio box will not do is allow you to watch 4:3 content on a HD channel without those bars - in other words if you want to watch Friends on 704, it will have black bars. You will need to adjust the screen size manually, as I described above. This sucks but it gives you the sharpest picture.

The Pioneer box also does one other cool thing - it downconverts HD content to SD if you watch through S-VHS. You can TiVo (or video record) HD content and TiVo certainkly does a fantastic job with it. One last reason to get the Pio box is that the S-A is very prone to pixelation.

Originally posted by alexjohnson
One last reason to get the Pio box is that the S-A is very prone to pixelation.

I would also add that the S-A boxes that I had were very prone to video and audio dropouts, sometimes to the point that a show was unwatchable. I have had very few dropouts with the Pioneer box.

Right now I have the SA HD box, but with a Panasonic plasma arriving next week, it sounds like I should switch to get stretch mode and avoid burn-in. To repeat from above, is there a compatability issue with the Panasonics?

Also, I've heard that there might be an advantage to watching SD stations via S-video instead of component. Is this the case?

I'm having problems with dropouts with my S-A 3100HD box. I had a cable guy come by yesterday and we tried the Pioneer box. One thing I noticed right away is that using the component video (RGB) connection, watching regular DTV (non-HD) the images were stretched on my 16x9 TV. My S-A box would convert the regular channels to standard 4x3 with grey bars on the left/right of the 4x3 image. The Pioneer just takes the 4x3 image and stretches it across the 16x9 screen.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I'm having really bad dropouts with my S-A box, but I do not want stretched images that the Pioneer box shows with regular DTV.

I ended up keeping my S-A box. Does anyone have any advice?

You can turn off the stretch mode I believe in the Pio box.

Drew

alexjohnson: Thanks so much for the great explanation... I am confident now that with tweaking between the PIO box and my tv I can get the picture I want.

I'm getting a Zenith C32V37 delivered tomorrow (Saturday) and was planning to hit the Brooklyn TW office to swap out my cable box for DTV HD (right now I only have standard cable)

Here are a few questions:

Will the box have a digital audio out? My receiver has optical and coax.

Should I go DVI to the TV? Will the box support it?

Is there a particular box I should ask for or will they just give me whatever?

I'm going to go with the DTValue package since I don't like HBO et al. and really only want the main HD channels. The website shows the following channels in HD with that package:
Ch. 702 CBS
Ch. 704 NBC
Ch. 706 Discovery HD Theater
Ch. 707 ABC
Ch. 713 Thirteen

Is that right? Is there no WB at this point? Anyone going OTA for that?

Thanks in advance!

PBS "Concert for George"

Did anyone watch this last night on TWCNY channel 713???
Did anyone have audio problems?

I experienced audio problems that have me dazed and confused.
The parts of the concert with music sounded perfect. In between some of the songs they had interviews and rehearsals. When they segued from the performances to the interviews, the audio for the interview was not there. It was like they didn’t bring the microphones up. The only audio heard was a wild track of ambient room sounds. When the concert started up again, the full sound kicked in again. I never encountered this before. I switched over to the SD channel 13, picture in picture and that audio was fine, no missing tracks. Since the SD and the HD are not in synch-- I couldn’t watch the show on HD and listen in SD. I checked around the other threads and can’t seem to find anyone with similar problems.. maybe no one else watched it yesterday in NY.??

Curious.. if anyone has an answer, I appreciate it.

Thanks,
Larry

Originally posted by cinemagotham
I'm going to go with the DTValue package since I don't like HBO et al. and really only want the main HD channels. The website shows the following channels in HD with that package:
Ch. 702 CBS
Ch. 704 NBC
Ch. 706 Discovery HD Theater
Ch. 707 ABC
Ch. 713 Thirteen

Is that right? Is there no WB at this point? Anyone going OTA for that?

Thanks in advance!

You also get Fox Widescreen (ch. 705)... but its not true hi-def. No WB right now on TWC.

I am considering an OTA solution for WB-HD to get the Mets games in Hi-Def... but my plasma has no hi-def tuner so an OTA solution will be a little expensive for something I am not sure will work. I am in Queens in a 6 story building.

How can they not have WB? They're Warner Brothers!

What about digital audio out from the cable box. Anyone know about this?

Originally posted by cinemagotham
How can they not have WB? They're Warner Brothers!

What about digital audio out from the cable box. Anyone know about this?

Its funny cause they actually had WB-HD on ch. 711 for a few weeks at one point... then they took it off. So they can put it on. But the reason for it not being on either is due to not reaching a contractual agreement with WPIX... or its because of "bandwidth issues" because since then they have added Discovery-HD.

Sucks hardcore IMO.

EDIT: Oh and the coaxial digital audio out on the STB works without any issues.

Cool (about the audio, not the WB).

Anyone have a TV with a built in QAF cable receiver? The Zenith I'm getting has that. I'm wondering what results just plugging the cable into the TV will get. It should receive any unscrambled HD channels. Anyone know which ones those are?

Originally posted by LL3HD
PBS "Concert for George"

Did anyone watch this last night on TWCNY channel 713???
Did anyone have audio problems?

I experienced audio problems that have me dazed and confused.
The parts of the concert with music sounded perfect. In between some of the songs they had interviews and rehearsals. When they segued from the performances to the interviews, the audio for the interview was not there. It was like they didn?t bring the microphones up. The only audio heard was a wild track of ambient room sounds. When the concert started up again, the full sound kicked in again. I never encountered this before. I switched over to the SD channel 13, picture in picture and that audio was fine, no missing tracks. Since the SD and the HD are not in synch-- I couldn?t watch the show on HD and listen in SD. I checked around the other threads and can?t seem to find anyone with similar problems.. maybe no one else watched it yesterday in NY.??

Curious.. if anyone has an answer, I appreciate it.

Thanks,
Larry

I had the same problem, which I mentioned on the Concert for George thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374259
I was surprised that only one other person mentioned that they also had this problem. I guess that it was local to TWCNY. As for why, I personally have no idea! It was really bizarre, though.

Thanks Bigd86,
there were some interesting responses on that link. It was very frustrating to think ‘is it me??’ - that no one else was experiencing the same strange audio mishap.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
I'm getting a Zenith C32V37 delivered tomorrow (Saturday) and was planning to hit the Brooklyn TW office to swap out my cable box for DTV HD (right now I only have standard cable)

Here are a few questions:

Will the box have a digital audio out? My receiver has optical and coax.

Should I go DVI to the TV? Will the box support it?

Is there a particular box I should ask for or will they just give me whatever?

I'm going to go with the DTValue package since I don't like HBO et al. and really only want the main HD channels. The website shows the following channels in HD with that package:
Ch. 702 CBS
Ch. 704 NBC
Ch. 706 Discovery HD Theater
Ch. 707 ABC
Ch. 713 Thirteen

Is that right? Is there no WB at this point? Anyone going OTA for that?

Thanks in advance!

Because your new TV (a 4:3, not a 16:9 model) is not a true HDTV, this response to your inquiry is necessarily somewhat general.

Go for and insist upon getting the Pioneer STB, and don't let TWCNYC stick you with one of their outmoded Scientific Atlanta boxes. The Pio box has user options for configuring a 4:3 monitor to handle 16:9 content that the SA box doesn't.

The SA box doesn't have a DVI output; the Pio box does, but, even with monitors a lot larger than yours, almost no one reports that a DVI connection with the Pio box yields better PQ than component.

Both the SA and Pio have digital audio output jacks; neither has optical outs.

Your channel inventory is accurate, except for SHO and Ch. 714, a Channel 13 SD sub-channel devoted exclusively to childrens' stuff. TWCNYC doesn't now carry WB; I'm in lower Manhattan and can usually view it OTA.

If you want to experience some "WOW!" --even on a 32" monitor-- tune to Channel 706.

Good luck --

Thanks for the info! (except the crack about it not being true HD. You're wrong! It is! ;) )

Only if it squeezes the raster vertically...

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Only if it squeezes the raster vertically...

To the best of my knowledge it does. In 16:9 it's basically the equivalent of a 30" 16:9 HDTV.

Special 16:9/4:3 aspect-ratio correction lets you view feature-length movies in either their original widescreen format (16:9) or in regular TV format (4:3), with no loss of resolution--the set devotes all available lines to the letterboxed image, wasting none on the black bars above and below.

Cool.

BTW my SA box is on the verge of dying. Requires frequent resets (including the unplug it variety) to function properly - especially for On Demand stuff. If I weren't moving soon I'd replace it with the Pio. Instead I'll wait until after the move...

TM

Has anyone had any experience with this converter? I went to switch my SA to a Pioneer but was informed that Staten Island is the only boro in TWC that doesn't use Pio's. Is this true or was I getting snowed? I ended up taking the Pace home thinking I could set scaling but found out later that the function isn't yet enabled.

I dont know if it is true...but we get snowed in SI all of the time. It wouldnt suprise me in the least.

I've had the Pioneer box for less than 24 hours now, I swapped it out from the SA 3100HD. I can report dropouts aren't as severe as they were with the SA. With the SA, the image would go black and the sound would cut out quite frequently. Now with the Pioneer, the image will pixelate very slightly and sometimes the sound will cut out briefly. Still not 100%, but far better than the SA.

Pioneer 3510HD.
Does the display always have to show the time -- and not the channel you are watching?
As it is, I have to press "Guide" on the remote to find out.
Is this a flaw in the STB? I mean, it's nice to know what time it is, but I'd much rather know which channel I am watching -- or tuning to.

You can go into the Settings and set the Clock Settings to Show Channel Always.

Thanks LisaM. I'll do that next time I turn the TV on.

Are we in the second half of 2004 yet?

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Are we in the second half of 2004 yet?
Soon.

so we should expect the HD-DVR, HD-Net, InHD, MSG, Starz, Cinemax, and FSNY soon?

Soon as in "Late 2004" as the TWCNYC website says.

On a different note, by April 1, all cable providers are required to provide a set top box with an active firewire output (if the customer requestes it). See this link (http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2004/0104/01b.htm) (under "1394 inputs by request) for details.

Does anyone have any clue about how TWCNYC plans to comply with this? The article I linked to mentioned a Pioneer HD DVR Voyager 4000. I'm not getting my hopes up that the box will be available anytime soon, but TWCNYC is required to provide a box with an active firewire output by April 1. Do any of TWCNYC's current boxes fit the bill?

This is why we need a tech contact inside TWCNYC!

BTW, here's some info (http://www.pioneerdigital.com/products/voyager4000.asp) on the Pioneer HD-DVR.

Nice link there, Jergans.

A few things confused me:

"S-A believes this has to do with the fact the DVI digital input is finding better traction in the consumer marketplace, in part because it combines audio and video inputs in one plug."

Since when? Isn't that HDMI that has video and audio? That has no traction yet. And doesn't 1394 have audio too?

“It’s also smaller and a little easier for the consumer to handle than 1394, which has little screws in it and is kind of a big plug,” Van Orden adds. “So DVI is really taking over as the connection for display devices and so forth.”

Clearly he has confused the two. This is from Bob Van Orden, S-A’s vice president of product strategy and management for subscriber networks.

"But other box makers disagree. Pioneer Digital Technologies’ HD-DVR Voyager 4000, set to start shipping in February or March, will come standard with 1394 Firewire inputs. “From Pioneer’s perspective, we are behind 1394,” says Haig Krakirian, Pioneer’s VP of software engineering."

They mention 1394 inputs. I would imagine they are 2-way, or at least outputs. Hopefully, we will see this Voyager 4000, as the SA-8000HD seems to have many problems.

Originally posted by dkan24
Nice link there, Jergans.

A few things confused me:

"S-A believes this has to do with the fact the DVI digital input is finding better traction in the consumer marketplace, in part because it combines audio and video inputs in one plug."

Since when? Isn't that HDMI that has video and audio? That has no traction yet. And doesn't 1394 have audio too?

“It’s also smaller and a little easier for the consumer to handle than 1394, which has little screws in it and is kind of a big plug,” Van Orden adds. “So DVI is really taking over as the connection for display devices and so forth.”

Clearly he has confused the two. This is from Bob Van Orden, S-A’s vice president of product strategy and management for subscriber networks.

"But other box makers disagree. Pioneer Digital Technologies’ HD-DVR Voyager 4000, set to start shipping in February or March, will come standard with 1394 Firewire inputs. “From Pioneer’s perspective, we are behind 1394,” says Haig Krakirian, Pioneer’s VP of software engineering."

They mention 1394 inputs. I would imagine they are 2-way, or at least outputs. Hopefully, we will see this Voyager 4000, as the SA-8000HD seems to have many problems.

You're right. Some of the info in that link is bizarre (or wrong). The author had to have used "input" when he meant "output." Why would you need a cable box with a firewire input?

Originally posted by jergans
You're right. Some of the info in that link is bizarre (or wrong). The author had to have used "input" when he meant "output." Why would you need a cable box with a firewire input?

In an ideal world, pass-through. Though I agree it's probably a mistake.

Actually, aren't they all 2-way unless otherwise engineered?

TM

Does anyone know anything in depth about the firewire "requirement"? Is it a real requirement? If a cable company does not comply, what happens? I'd love to call TWCNYC to ask what their plans are, but I don't have half an hour (minimum) to waste on the phone while they find someone who even knows what firewire is.

All, I am moving to Murray Hill next week.

Can you guys tell me what HD Set top box I should request from TWC? Also is there an HD DVR available yet or should I stick with my two replays?

Pioneer 3510HD.

No HD DVR yet available.

What kind of reception does TW DTV give with the Pio box? Does it break up and pixelate all the time? My current standard cable looks crummy and the shound is scratchy but at least it doesn't freak out every few minutes. What can I expect?

I had a lot of audio and video breakups on HD with the SA box and some pixelation on the digital channels. Have had very few problems with the Pio box on either HD or regular cable.

Originally posted by TAGLIA
Soon as in "Late 2004" as the TWCNYC website says.


Well I really hope that TWC comes through and provides at least ESPNHD and INHD because I am getting really sick of seeing all the commercials and advertisements for those channels when I can't get them !!

Jim.

I think the input/output may be for daisy chain-ing the components together. Founds this link on another thread that shows a good illustration of Firewire i/o issues: http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/networking.html

Drew

What format is the digital audio output on the Pioneer 3510HD box.?

I'm guessing its dependant upon the channel you're watching. Some channels may be PCM, other may be AC-3. What I'm really wondering is how can you tell the Pioneer 3510 to downmix digital and output strictly PCM?

I meant what type of plug: optical, coax...

Does the Pioneer 3510HD output via DVI yet? If not, does anyone know when TW will turn this on?

My Panasonic plasma arrives tomorrow...

the Pioneer has coax and DVI outputs. i haven't tried coax yet, and the DVI i'm not capable.

I'm sorry. I'm not asking this in a clear way: What type of plug of digital audio output does the Pioneer box offer? I know that it has DVI and coax out for video. DVI does not, to my knowledge, output audio. So if you wanted to go DVI out (which I might) what is your audio option?

Thanks!

sorry for the confusion, there is a digital audio out using RCA connectors.

Originally posted by james1969
sorry for the confusion, there is a digital audio out using RCA connectors.

Hmm... Do any HD channels broadcast in 5.1 or any formats like that? It's not a deal breaker, just curious.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
Hmm... Do any HD channels broadcast in 5.1 or any formats like that? It's not a deal breaker, just curious.

ABCHD, CBSHD (live events only at this point), HBOHD, SHOHD, DiscoveryHD and PBSHD broadcast in 5.1 at least some of the time.

FOX broadcasts in 5.1, but we do not receive it in NYC. Once FOX moves to HD in the fall, the NYC Fox affiliate will begin passing the 5.1 mix.

Some of the non-HD movie channels broadcast 5.1 as well.

What output do you use for the 5.1 audio?

Originally posted by gregeas
Does the Pioneer 3510HD output via DVI yet? If not, does anyone know when TW will turn this on?

My Panasonic plasma arrives tomorrow...

Yes, it has DVI and TWCNYC has already enabled it.

I am using the DVI on the PIO 3510HD and it works however the channels flicker as I change them. Possible going through some sort of synch or maybe this is due to the copy protection. I have yet to receive an answer on why it does that. Anyway, I don't see much difference in picture quality between DVI and component.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
What type of plug of digital audio output does the Pioneer box offer?
Coaxial.

Originally posted by dkan24
so we should expect the HD-DVR, HD-Net, InHD, MSG, Starz, Cinemax, and FSNY soon?

where did you see a reference to MSG-HD? it's long overdue!

Originally posted by broadwayblue
where did you see a reference to MSG-HD? it's long overdue!


Not happening. At least not as long as MSG is run by Cablevision. I think you would have more of a chance to get MSG-HD on RCN over TWC.

Anyone else having a problem with the Pio HD box in lower Manhattan? All week my program guide was showing "no data". I performed a soft boot by holding the power button, and then did a hard boot by disconnecting the power and cable signal for 30 minutes. When I re-boot the converter, it goes through the normal boot cycle, but now I only get a bunch of crappy analog channels. It automatically goes to channel 21 and only a small set of channels even come in. No digital, or HD channels. TWC is sending someone out next Saturday. Thanks, not!

Any help or thoughts are appreciated.

Interesting developments seem to be coming down the pipeline for cable subscribers. There's a new technology called CableCARD. Sony has released DVRs capable of replacing your existing cable box. Its capable of DTV and HDTV recording. Check out this link:

http://www.beststuff.com/article.php3?story_id=6344

I'm wondering if Time Warner will support this CableCARD technology.

Originally posted by drew138
Anyone else having a problem with the Pio HD box in lower Manhattan? All week my program guide was showing "no data". I performed a soft boot by holding the power button, and then did a hard boot by disconnecting the power and cable signal for 30 minutes. When I re-boot the converter, it goes through the normal boot cycle, but now I only get a bunch of crappy analog channels. It automatically goes to channel 21 and only a small set of channels even come in. No digital, or HD channels. TWC is sending someone out next Saturday. Thanks, not!

Any help or thoughts are appreciated.

Drew --

I'm also in lower Manhattan and haven't had that program guide problem with my 3510HD. I have, however, often seen the rebooting problem you describe, when the box enters a parallel universe centered on Ch. 21. When it's entering that mode, the progress bar on the reboot screen stalls for a time after completing the first 2 dots before finishing. When that happens, I just reboot it again and, with luck, the progress bar doesn't stall and the reboot's successful.

BTW, I don't think that the reboot glitch is particular to the 3510. I recently experienced a 6-day complete TWC outage (both TV and cable modem). The tech who finally showed up and fixed the problem watched my SA SD-box reboot, and as soon as the third dot lit up, said "you're good." In the past, that box has also entered Ch. 21-land. The underlying problem turned out to be that the genius TWC tech who was supposed to shut off a neighbor's service when she moved had disconnected my line instead.

Just swapped out the analog box for the Pioneer (HD channels look amazing, others look okay, not great) and I specified that I don't want premiums. Yet I'm getting HBOHD etc...

Which of these options is most likely:
1) There's a promotion for the first few days that you get DV (unlikely)
2) the guy hooked me up with extra channels
3) my bill will be bigger than I wanted

When I first went from analog to digital (non-HD) box, I mysteriously had all of the premium channels. Within a day or so, all but the one I subscribed to disappeared. Chances are that this is what has happened to you.

Originally posted by garysi
Has anyone had any experience with this converter? I went to switch my SA to a Pioneer but was informed that Staten Island is the only boro in TWC that doesn't use Pio's. Is this true or was I getting snowed? I ended up taking the Pace home thinking I could set scaling but found out later that the function isn't yet enabled. I live in SI and use the SA with my HD Plasma and everything runs smooth for me, I don't see why people are having problems with this box.

Wow, "Eight Crazy Nights" in HD. I won't lose any sleep if the premiums dissappear.

By the way, how good does Discovery HD Theater look? I'm watching documentaries about any random subject just because it's soooo pretty.

Any news on upcoming TWCNYC HD content additions? I believe someone wrote a letter to TWCNYC's president a few weeks ago...any updates?

I asked the guy at the TW office in Brooklyn if they're getting WB in HD and he just shook his head. That's crazy! It's the same company!

WPIX is not the same company as TWCNYC. WPIX is owned and operated by Tribune out of Chicago. WPIX is an affiliate in the WB network. There is no other connection.

For WPIX HD to go on any cable, the two companies must work out deals under the must-carry-local laws. In other words, there has to be a monetary agreement.

Ah, thanks for the schoolin'. Still, they should work it out. Shame to miss the final season of Angel in HD.

The Tribune company owns 25% of the WB.

Gary Press

Ah, the conspiracy runs deep I see! ;)

Originally posted by Manatus
Drew --

I'm also in lower Manhattan and haven't had that program guide problem with my 3510HD. I have, however, often seen the rebooting problem you describe, when the box enters a parallel universe centered on Ch. 21. When it's entering that mode, the progress bar on the reboot screen stalls for a time after completing the first 2 dots before finishing. When that happens, I just reboot it again and, with luck, the progress bar doesn't stall and the reboot's successful.

BTW, I don't think that the reboot glitch is particular to the 3510. I recently experienced a 6-day complete TWC outage (both TV and cable modem). The tech who finally showed up and fixed the problem watched my SA SD-box reboot, and as soon as the third dot lit up, said "you're good." In the past, that box has also entered Ch. 21-land. The underlying problem turned out to be that the genius TWC tech who was supposed to shut off a neighbor's service when she moved had disconnected my line instead.


Thanks Mantus. I'll keep trying with the re-boot, however, I'm on my 18th time and no luck. The TV in the other room is working fine. I like your parallel universe centered on 21 quote. It's driving me nuts! I'm sure the tech will come out on Saturday next week only to hit the re-boot sequence only to have it work fine. Your diagnosis BTW is 100% accurate. The boot sequence doesn't go past the two balls. Thanks again for consoling and validating my frustration.

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
I'm sure the tech will come out on Saturday next week only to hit the re-boot sequence only to have it work fine.

Perhaps, but if your 3510 does need to be replaced, I kinda doubt that the cable guy is going to have a spare on his truck. Why not exchange your current box for another one at TWC's swell new 23rd Street walk-in facility, if you have the time, where, while you're waiting for your number to be called, you can enjoy TWC's HD-demo -- on what looks like about a 42" flat panel display tuned to Ch. 713, suspended from the ceiling about 25 feet above the floor. Bring binoculars.

You manhattan folk are so funny. The TWC walk-in center is like being in a mock-up set of the DMV in someone's garage. Still, there's no line (or there wasn't saturday) and you're in and out in 5 minutes.

Originally posted by DJ Frustration
Any news on upcoming TWCNYC HD content additions? I believe someone wrote a letter to TWCNYC's president a few weeks ago...any updates?

I did indeed write a letter. Unfortunately, I never heard back.

Originally posted by jergans
I did indeed write a letter. Unfortunately, I never heard back.

That's funny... Not that you never heard back but that I just read your letter not one minute ago while doing a search for HDNET in this thread. I'm telling people that I just got HD cooking and they're like "Did you check out HDNET? etc..." and I'm going "HDWhat?" TWCNYC seems to have a very slim selection of HD channels which, when you consider the crummy quality of their non-HD programming on an HD set, is pretty sad. I'm sure more stuff is on the way but they always seem to be slow as hell, whether it's rolling out DTV, cable modem, whatever. What's the deal?

Oh, I know. Frankly, for the most part they're in my good books because getting cable modem finally got me completely out of business with Verizon, simply the worst company on the planet. More HD channels would be nice but I'd take a 13" b&w TV over going back to giving Verizon any of my business any day.

That said, they'll surely be adding more channels at some point in the (not so?) distant future.

Originally posted by andrello
The deal is that they're a monopoly, and for this reason couldn't care less about what their customers want or feel.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3159375#post3159375

Look, I have a ton of issues with TWCNYC, but the problem you reference in your link is a problem with Columbia, not TWCNYC. TWCNYC would LOVE to upgrade your building to digital cable. They'd make more money because they'd be able to sell you more services!

If you want change, contact the people responsible for making the decisions in your building. TWCNYC cannot come rewire your entire building without permission from the landlord.

I complete agree jergens. He almost sounds like a student in the dorms. He should be happy he has cable at all if he is a student. Most people goto college in podunk usa and don't have squat much less HD in a college owned building. That is laughable.

- JB

For those using the DVI output from their cable box:

- What kind of DVI cable do you use? I've been told to get DVI-D, which only runs the digital signal
- Will that send all the DTV channels or only the HD ones? Aren't ALL channels on DTV digital? Someone in another forum told me that only the HD channels go through the DVI-D cable. That would stink.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
For those using the DVI output from their cable box:

- What kind of DVI cable do you use? I've been told to get DVI-D, which only runs the digital signal
- Will that send all the DTV channels or only the HD ones? Aren't ALL channels on DTV digital? Someone in another forum told me that only the HD channels go through the DVI-D cable. That would stink.

You need a DVI-D cable. It can handle all signals received by your STB, HD and SD and even those stations (mainly below Ch. 100) which are analog (even after you subscribe to DTV); the STB contains an analog ----> digital converter.

:D Thanks!

Originally posted by cinemagotham
For those using the DVI output from their cable box:

- What kind of DVI cable do you use? I've been told to get DVI-D, which only runs the digital signal
- Will that send all the DTV channels or only the HD ones? Aren't ALL channels on DTV digital? Someone in another forum told me that only the HD channels go through the DVI-D cable. That would stink.

From Widescreen Review issue # 69 Feb. 2003 :

The DVI standard actually allows the
transmission of analog RGB and sync signals
as well as digital video signals. When
this option is used, usually to eliminate the
separate connector that would otherwise be
required, the DVI connector includes a
ground blade with 4 pins surrounding it in
addition to the normal 24 pins. Connectors with these extra pins are
called DVI-I while those without are called
DVI-D. (DVI can also be used to transmit
only analog signals, but this is not common.)

Anyway......... As Manatus said, you need a DVI-D cable.

By the way, has anyone noticed much difference between DVI and component ? I cannot see much difference between the two, component looks just as good.

Thanks..

Originally posted by jheart
By the way, has anyone noticed much difference between DVI and component ? I cannot see much difference between the two, component looks just as good.

Thanks..

I can see a huge difference; both my 3510HD and OTA HD tuner produce vastly worse pictures when I use a DVI connection. In my case, that difference may be caused by my having had my TV's DVI input professionally calibrated to produce a stunning picture from my DVD player during the long months I was waiting for Pioneer/TWC to activate the 3510's DVI port.

Hmmm... I was mainly going to use DVI to free up a component input but maybe I'll hold off or maybe I'll use the component switching on my receiver...

I just sent the following email regarding firewire support to TWCNYC via the email on their website. I know that Diana from TWC South Carolina is looking into the issue over in the HDTV Recorder forum, but it'll be interesting to see whether I get any kind of knowledgable reply:

FCC regulations effective April 1, 2004(47 CFR part 76 section 76.640(b)(4)(i)), require, upon request of a customer, replacement of any leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional IEEE 1394 (firewire) interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394 (firewire) interface or upgrade the customer's set-top box by download or other means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 (firewire) interface is functional.

I would like such a box on April 1, 2004, as is my right and as TWCNYC is obliged to provide on that date. TWCNYC does not currently offer a high definition box with active firewire/IEEE 1394 interface.

Please let me know whether TWCNYC will comply with this requirement on that date.

Here is a link to the FCC's adopting release:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-225A1.pdf

gee jergans...of all the things to stir TWCNYC's pot about. Do you really care about having firewire now? Firewire users are even a small percentage of the small percentage of HD owners. It really isnt an issue. Let them work on more channels/HD VoD etc..

- JB

Well, I ordered the DVI-D cable from Pacific Custom Cable ($25 there versus $100 for a Monster cable at B&H!) Manatus claims the image is worse with DVI but I'm gambling on it. I'm not crazy about my non-HD image right now and would like to see it all digital. Anyone else care to weigh in on DVI from the Pioneer box in New York? I'm in Brooklyn specifically.

Originally posted by mrkaos
gee jergans...of all the things to stir TWCNYC's pot about. Do you really care about having firewire now? Firewire users are even a small percentage of the small percentage of HD owners. It really isnt an issue. Let them work on more channels/HD VoD etc..

- JB

Do I care specifically about firewire? No.

BUT, this is an FCC mandate that TWC specifically agreed to (see the Memorandum of Understanding between the FCC and many large cable operators). It was not imposed on them by the FCC unknowingly. They should comply, right?

I cannot do anything to force TWCNYC to upgrade their infastructure so that they have the capacity necessary to add HD stations. I care much more about increased HD programming than firewire. I'd love to do something to get more programming in the immediate future, but I cannot.

As consumers, though, we could do something about TWCNYC's refusal to comply with this FCC mandate. We can call the FCC persons named in the various rules releases on this matter and let them know about TWCNYC's non-compliance.

Here's my hope: The Pioneer HD-DVR has a firewire port on it. TWCNYC is supposedly getting these boxes at some point. If we demand a box with firewire, I hope that this will cause them to begin rolling out the HD-DVR's earlier than planned.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
Well, I ordered the DVI-D cable from Pacific Custom Cable ($25 there versus $100 for a Monster cable at B&H!) Manatus claims the image is worse with DVI but I'm gambling on it. I'm not crazy about my non-HD image right now and would like to see it all digital. Anyone else care to weigh in on DVI from the Pioneer box in New York? I'm in Brooklyn specifically.

I moved to DVI from component on the Pioneer box recently. I also bought the $25 PCC DVI-D cable, my component cable was a much more expensive item from Better Cables.

I find the DVI-D output to be noticeably better than component, although locking onto channels takes longer.

For the record, I use many cables from Better Cables and I find all of them to be excellent (including their component cable). In this case I think the improvement comes from the all digital path.

Finally decided to take the plunge and get digital cable (had analog, since I used cable as a backup to satellite and mainl for PIP).

Everything went up without a hitch - except for the digital audio connection. I disconnected my DVD player's working coax audio connection, and hooked up the Pioneer HD receiver. Now - all I get is noise, the same noise I get if I try hooking it up to any of the analog audio outputs (tried to see if I had them reversed, or was reading them wrong).

I'm guessing the box is fried, or I'm missing a setup somewhere. Did anyone else have this problem? I think I need to call TW and arrange to swap boxes....

Originally posted by blazeby
I find the DVI-D output to be noticeably better than component
Is it only with HD channels or with SD as well? Or only with SD?

Does the current Pioneer HD box (3510) look *worse* on normal SD cable channels than my non-HD SA3100? I have a new HDTV-ready plasma but would hate to sacrifice quality on the channels I'll be watching 90% of the time just to receive (and not even be able to Tivo in HD) the handful of HD channels now available from TWC. Any info would be much appreciated!

Originally posted by blazeby
I moved to DVI from component on the Pioneer box recently.
I find the DVI-D output to be noticeably better than component
I think the improvement comes from the all digital path.
Since other people have stated that they saw little if any improvement with DVI, I am wondering whether this *noticeable* improvement may be due to the fact that your settings on component were not optimum.

I am raising this issue because I am seriously thinking of upgrading to DVI (with my Panny 42PWD6 and at a cost of $200. for the DVI board), but right now I am not sufficiently convinced that it will lead to a *noticeable* improvement.
We need more opinions.

I don't know what extra gear you need for the panny but pacific custom cables has a very inexpensive DVI-D cable. I've got one on the way so I can't say how the DVI looks, but it's inexpensive at least. http://www.pacificcustomcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=DVIDL-3

Originally posted by abr88
Does the current Pioneer HD box (3510) look *worse* on normal SD cable channels than my non-HD SA3100?
It partly depends on your TV.
I have a 27" Sony Wega with SA3100 in bedroom, and a Panny 42" PWD6UY with Pioneer 3510HD in living room.
SD looks at least as good (and on many channels even better) on the Panny -- with a composite connection (component is not as clear).

Originally posted by Maurice2
I am seriously thinking of upgrading to DVI (with my Panny 42PWD6 and at a cost of $200

I think that you'll find that because DVI cables carry a digital signal that isn't subject to electrical interference (unlike, for example, component cables), there's absolutely no reason to pay a bundle for a set; get the cheapest ones that you can find.

Just got the Pio 3510 box. Is it normal for the thing to get hot? I have it in a cabinet with a receiver and DVD player, and it seems to give off the most heat. Will I need a fan in there or will turning it off be enough?

I've been having a lot of trouble with my Pio 3510HD rebooting a lot.
At first I thought it was happening randomly, but now I think it might be related to me switching video inputs on the TV!
I switch between DVI and Component inputs on my Samsung DLP depending on whether I'm watching TiVo or something in Hi-Def and I can reproduce the problem, albeit sporadically, by switching to Component.

Has anyone else seen this type of problem?
Maybe a bad box, or just bad luck?
Thanks

This isn't a TWCNYC specific question, but if anyone happens to be around an HD set when the NCAA tourney games start this afternoon, can you please post whether WCBS-DT is broadcasting the HD feed, or whether they're just showing the same game as is on the analog feed.

Some CBS O&O stations are showing one game on the HD station and a different game on the analog station today. No one seems to know what WCBS is going to do.

Thanks!

Originally posted by abr88
Does the current Pioneer HD box (3510) look *worse* on normal SD cable channels than my non-HD SA3100? I have a new HDTV-ready plasma but would hate to sacrifice quality on the channels I'll be watching 90% of the time just to receive (and not even be able to Tivo in HD) the handful of HD channels now available from TWC. Any info would be much appreciated!

The picture is basically the same all around regardless of the box, with the exception of a slight HD 'fog/haze' noted by some on the SA3100HD. The only difference with the Pioneer box is that the box, and not the TV, stretches the SD image. You will notice a slight difference in the actual SD image since your TV most likely has a different stretched images, but I the large majority of people adjust to the Pio box stretch mode.

Drew

Originally posted by jergans
This isn't a TWCNYC specific question, but if anyone happens to be around an HD set when the NCAA tourney games start this afternoon, can you please post whether WCBS-DT is broadcasting the HD feed, or whether they're just showing the same game as is on the analog feed.

Some CBS O&O stations are showing one game on the HD station and a different game on the analog station today. No one seems to know what WCBS is going to do.

Thanks!

Jergans --

At 12:50 this afternoon Ch. 2 was carrying Utah vs. BC, and Ch. 702 was showing SC vs. Mem (in true HD).

Originally posted by drew138
The picture is basically the same all around regardless of the box, with the exception of a slight HD 'fog/haze' noted by some on the SA3100HD. The only difference with the Pioneer box is that the box, and not the TV, stretches the SD image. You will notice a slight difference in the actual SD image since your TV most likely has a different stretched images, but I the large majority of people adjust to the Pio box stretch mode.

Drew
Drew: But I don't *have* to stretch a 4:3 SD picture on the Pioneer if I don't want to, right? The option to just view it 4:3 standard aspect is available, right?

Well, I got a response from TWCNYC on my firewire question. Looks like people will have the option of getting the SA 3250 box if they want. Here's a link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=346428&highlight=3250) to a discussion of the box over in the hardware forum. I haven't actually read the thread, so I don't know anything about the box.

Here's the text of the email (nice to see the reference to the SA8000HD):
-----------------------------------------------
Thank you for your recent message to Time Warner Cable.

We're sorry for the delay taken to respond to your inquiry.

In reference to your inquiry, we expect that as of April 1, 2004, the Scientific Atlanta 3250 will be available to customers, upon request, with the firewire (IEEE 1394b) output, in compliance with the applicable FCC ruling. The firewire output should be available in other converters, including the SA 8000HD, later this year.

Thank you for your patience while we research this matter.

Sincerely,

Customer Support
Time Warner Cable of NYC

I wish someone would summarize the advantages of the SA3250 box over the Pioneer 3510HD. For those of us who have no use for the firewire output (yet), are there enough advantages (especially regarding PQ) to justify switching from the Pioneer to the SA3250? I certainly would not want to switch unless I was sure that the PQ would be at least as good as with the Pioneer (for SD as well as for HD).

It is sad that this thread has turned in to a forum about TWC's equipment while Cablevision's IO has left them in the HD programming dust. Cablevision now has 14 HD channels available including Bravo HD, Starz HD, INHD, The Movie Channel HD, Cinemax HD, and IN Demand HD. We have been stuck with the 5 networks HBO, Showtime and Discovery HD for months, and there is not even a hint of when or if we will get additional HD channels. We will never see MSG HD and FOX Sports HD and I'm tired of hearing about bandwith problems from one of largest Cable operators in the country. It's a disgrace that their NYC operation is far behind the rest of the counttry and their local competitor. Unfortunatley the only option is moving or I would dump them in a heartbeat for Cablevision. C'mon Time Warner...get off your HD asses and give us competitive HD programming so we can discuss something other than where to attach a DVI or firewire cable on your damn set top boxes!!

Originally posted by beatles6
It is sad that this thread has turned in to a forum about TWC's equipment
This is the Official TWC NYC thread . This is exactly where we should be talking about TWC's equipment.

Cablevision is not TWC's "local competitor." They are not competing for anything. They have mutually exclusive franchises.

And TWCNYC is certainly not competing with other TWC systems, except in trying to generate the most profit for TWC.

The TWCNYC bandwidth is what it is--it's probably not going to change for many years. TWCNYC will use the existing bandwidth in whatever way it thinks will maximize profits. The demand for HD service is still too small to justify deleting other services that a lot more people want, and are paying for.

Originally posted by rgrossman
This is the Official TWC NYC thread . This is exactly where we should be talking about TWC's equipment.

Cablevision is not TWC's "local competitor." They are not competing for anything. They have mutually exclusive franchises.

And TWCNYC is certainly not competing with other TWC systems, except in trying to generate the most profit for TWC.

The TWCNYC bandwidth is what it is--it's probably not going to change for many years. TWCNYC will use the existing bandwidth in whatever way it thinks will maximize profits. The demand for HD service is still too small to justify deleting other services that a lot more people want, and are paying for.


You missed my point and are taking my post way to personally unless you work for TWC. My statement was not intended to imply that this this is not the proper forum to discuss TWC equipment but rather to voice my frustration with their HD programming. I fully understand that Cablevision is not their local "competitor" which is actually part of the problem. If TWC did have to compete for local customers the bandwith issue would not take years to be resolved.

I never said TWC was competing with other TWC systems but once again it is frustrating to know that their systems in smaller markets have more HD programming then NYC.

Is the demand for HD service only small for TWC customers? Why does Cablevision think the demand is high enough to provide 14 HD channels for their customers and to run televsion ads that they now offer more HD programming then Direct TV at no additional charge. When I was sufing through the channels last week at a Cablevision subscriber's home the non HD channels were identical to those on TWC. Maybe you can be more specific... what are theses TWC services that alot more people want and are paying for that would have to be deleted to provide more HD programming?

Is the SA 3250 an HD box? If so, then I wonder if we can hook firewire up to a D-VHS machine and start recording in a week.

(of course I don't have a D-VHS, but hopefully a PC will work!)

Beatles6, I don't work for TWC. I'm just trying to explain why I think TWC has made the decisions it has.

First of all, does anyone know Cablevision's total bandwidth as compared to TWCNYC's? Don't assume it's the same. They may have more to start with.

Competiton wouldn't solve all bandwidth problems that quickly--it is a huge, very expensive process to run cables under all the streets, and even if TWC wanted to invest the money it would still take years. (I'm not going to bother going into the myriad factors that would affect infrastructure investment decisions in competitive versus monopoly environments, other than to point out that in a competitive environment you might actually get less, not more--the risks are higher.)

How much of the bandwidth is used for internet access, as opposed to Cablevision? I wouldn't be surprised if it's significantly more. TWC has many premium foreign language channels. How many does Cablevision have? I think this is a significant revenue source for TWCNYC, that it would not want to give up.

Cablevision has a different set of customers than TWC, besides, obviously, a different set of decision-makers. I am not surprised that they have decided on a different strategy regarding HD.

It may seem like I'm taking your comments personally, but I'm tired of posts like yours that imply TWCNYC is just "sitting on its ass" (to paraphrase you) and ignoring the demand for HD. I am quite confident that TWCNYC will do what it thinks will maximize its profits. Right now, that doesn't include a lot of HD.

Originally posted by dkan24
Is the SA 3250 an HD box? If so, then I wonder if we can hook firewire up to a D-VHS machine and start recording in a week.

(of course I don't have a D-VHS, but hopefully a PC will work!)

Nope. The output is copy protected, and D-VHS recorders will not copy protected firewire output.

Originally posted by bigd86
Nope. The output is copy protected, and D-VHS recorders will not copy protected firewire output.

And you know this because you already have a 3250 with working firewire?

Cablevision doesn not even protect PPV, let alone HBO, or any of the networks. Lets not be so sure untill we see it in action.

I would imagine we will be able to copy everything but PPV. But getting drivers for the PC may be the hard part.

We'll know in a few weeks (probably a few months the way TWCNYC works)

Originally posted by rgrossman


How much of the bandwidth is used for internet access, as opposed to Cablevision? I wouldn't be surprised if it's significantly more.



Cablevision offers Optimum Online high speed internet service which is comparable to Roadrunner.

TWCNY was the leader for years and offered services like Roadrunner, Digital Cable, VOD and HD long before Cablevision. Cablevision's customers wanted to run them out of town and were switching to Direct TV when they refused to carry Yankee games for an entire season. All your points make sense but do not ease the frustration of watching Cablevision add service while TWC makes excuses.

Not true at all. Optimum Online has been around as long as RoadRunner. Cablevision had VOD long before (over a year) TWC. They also have had a few HD channels (MSG, FSNY, HBO, SHO) as long as TWC.

People were switching to DirecTV over the YES network fiasco. Supposedly, it was not as large a group as was rumored.

Originally posted by dkan24
Cablevision doesn not even protect PPV, let alone HBO, or any of the networks.

So what you are saying is that, apparently (since I do not personally know this as a fact) Cablevision supplies HD boxes with active firewire ports that are not copy protected, and thus can be copied by any D-VHS deck.
People can actively tape anything they want to in HD.
And the wonderfully litigious content providers are ignorant of this or just don't care?
Please tell me this is really so. I have Cablevision on the Island (no HD yet), but this would be a great excuse to upgrade, pick up a D-VHS deck off of EBay, and tape away!

My TV has a built in QAM tuner and I just did a cursory test. It appears that the image for standard DTV channels (non-HD) is WAY better going directly into the TV than it is coming component out of the Pioneer box. Is that the experience others are having? Weird. I've got DVI on the way so I'm eager to test that too.

Yes, and yes. Go get yourself one of the old Sony boxes that is not HD. It has active firewire ports. Do a search on Cablevision or just go to the HD recorders section.

Originally posted by beatles6
Cablevision offers Optimum Online high speed internet service which is comparable to Roadrunner.


But how many people are using it, and how much bandwidth do they use?

Unlike cable TV service, internet service (and VOD) use more bandwidth as more people use it.

Originally posted by abr88
Drew: But I don't *have* to stretch a 4:3 SD picture on the Pioneer if I don't want to, right? The option to just view it 4:3 standard aspect is available, right?

You are correct. There is an option in the setting menu to select the output format of non-16:9 pictures. 4:3 is an option.

Drew

FYI: My pio box was fixed today at 1:59 PM by the installer for my 10:00 to 2:00 appt. Turns out there was a bad signal coming off my splitter. 5 minute fix. Once the pio box got past the 2 balls on the reboot screen, I knew I was golden. Thanks. Only a week to fix.

I asked the installer about the HD DVR and he said that it was supposed to be out 4th quarter and that all he knows is that it is delayed indefintiley. I also asked him about the new SA HD Box with Firewire, he said he had heard about it, but hadn't seen it yet....

Watching the Flyers/Rangers game on ABC in SD. :-(

Drew

A note: My cable was acting weird: Black picture but normal sound on most stations, normal pic and sound on a few, subscription image on premiums (which is normal for me) and for many non-premiums (weird). I unplugged the cable box and plugged it back in and now it's fine. Is that how you guys are rebooting your PIO boxes?

Originally posted by dkan24
Yes, and yes. Go get yourself one of the old Sony boxes that is not HD. It has active firewire ports. Do a search on Cablevision or just go to the HD recorders section.

Was that in response to my question about the fuzzy quality of images coming out of the Pioneer box? If it's not HD then I (obviously) won't get HD channels. Even tho TWCNYC's HD offerings are slim I still wanna get them on my HDTV. What should I do?

Originally posted by cinemagotham
Was that in response to my question about the fuzzy quality of images coming out of the Pioneer box? If it's not HD then I (obviously) won't get HD channels. Even tho TWCNYC's HD offerings are slim I still wanna get them on my HDTV. What should I do?

That was in response to Cablevision having boxes available that have active firewire ports that allow you to record HD.

TWCNYC has stated that the 3250 will have active firewire ports. Is this for the HD or SD version? Anyone know.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
My TV has a built in QAM tuner and I just did a cursory test. It appears that the image for standard DTV channels (non-HD) is WAY better going directly into the TV than it is coming component out of the Pioneer box. Is that the experience others are having? Weird. I've got DVI on the way so I'm eager to test that too.

Wait... how does this work? How are you able to bypass the cable box? Are the DTV signals not encrypted at all? How does your TV's QAM tuner know what you subscribe to and what you don't? If that's the case, couldn't you subscribe to only basic cable and still get the digital channels on your TV? That would be like not scrambling analog channels.

Is TWC really doing this??

I'm not certain but I believe the TV is picking up a weird assortment of analog, digital and HD channels. It's only getting unscrambled channels and the station numbers are totally different. Would I be getting any digital channels even if I only subscribed to basic? I don't know. I ran the auto-scan on the TV when I first got it before I signed up for DTV and it didn't get any digital channels but then again the TV was fresh out of the box and I don't recall if I tried all the different types of autoscan.

This TV has a built in QAM cable tuner and a built in HD receiver, so all you have to do is plug an HD antenna right into it and get OTA HD channels. Pretty damn cool. And it costs a hell of a lot less than Sony.

I think it's the analog local stations that look a lot cleaner than ther digital counterparts. I found a digital NY1 further up the dial and it's fuzzy like the version coming out of the box. That makes me think DVI isn't going to help. I guess a fancy scaler would but who wants to spend money on that?

By the way, I think TWCNYC's bandwidth argument is nonsense. They are lazy sods and if they wanted to get it together they could.

Originally posted by cinemagotham


By the way, I think TWCNYC's bandwidth argument is nonsense. They are lazy sods and if they wanted to get it together they could.

Any "lazy sod" that passed up a significant revenue source would be out of a job real fast.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
Would I be getting any digital channels even if I only subscribed to basic?

....This TV has a built in QAM cable tuner and a built in HD receiver, so all you have to do is plug an HD antenna right into it and get OTA HD channels.

I think it's the analog local stations that look a lot cleaner than ther digital counterparts.

....By the way, I think TWCNYC's bandwidth argument is nonsense. They are lazy sods and if they wanted to get it together they could.
TWC NYC delivers analog and digital signals. There are about 100 analog channels with perhaps 30 not sync-scrambled (no converter needed). Most of the analog channels were duplicated in digital format a few years back. (Channels 31, 21, 25, last I checked, were still only analog.) Some digitals are encrypted, requiring a subscription. TVs with QAM tuners can pick up unencrypted digitals. Generally I find that digital channels have better fidelity than the analog source, although the opposite is true at times if the source is poor quality. Composite analog is ~440X480 resolution, while SD digital can be ~720X480 (possible with this fiber/satellite delivery to TWC headends).

TWC out of bandwidth? Each analog channel needs a 6-MHz-wide cable slot (frequency). So that's 600-MHz bandwidth out of TWC's 860-plus-MHz total. Non-H/DTV digital channels each get <5 million bits per second (Mbps) out of the ~40 Mbps available in each 6-MHz slot with 256 QAM (most digital channels; a few here are 64 QAM). That's about 8 SD channels for each 6-MHz slot. H/DTV channels use ~19 Mbps per slot, or about 2 channels/slot. To calculate how much of the remaining bandwidth SD channels occupy (~860 - ~600 = ~260 MHz), count all the special sports tiers, subscription foreign-language channels, etc. and divide by 8.

The bandwidth requirement of the huge Spanish-language block of channels is uncertain IMO. Using the diagnostic mode (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1921765#post1921765) with my 3100HD converter I noticed the Spanish Discovery Science channel has the same frequency as the English version. So, unless TWC is putting both channels on the same frequency (2 of 8/slot), it appears the Spanish version could just be remapped video, requiring no additional bandwidth, with the audio, needing little spectrum, changed. Perhaps a really energetic subscriber will enter all the channels/frequencies on a spreadsheet data base and sort it on the frequencies to help determine what's going on. ;) TWC here has been using rate shaping (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2658975#post2658975) and statistical multiplexing to maximize bandwidth use.

Seems that's just a starting point for bandwidth use, though. Video-on-demand (VOD) delivers streaming video from TWC disk servers to local cable hubs or optical-fiber nodes, (not to each NYC subscriber when you order VOD). But for peak VOD demand periods, how much spectrum must be reserved? How much spectrum is being used for broadband Internet, both private and businesses? How much spectrum is being set aside for upcoming cable telephone use? That ~260-MHz block of non-analog available spectrum seems fairly limited.

One method of freeing up bandwidth, eliminating the analog block and using digital-to-analog converters (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3355113#post3355113) for subscribers requiring analog, might be too costly--even with low-cost converters--if too many subscribers need analog. These special converters, BTW, are smaller than regular cable boxes. Whether TWC is planning this converter approach, or other techniques (link above), it's puzzling why one of the largest cable systems apparently couldn't plan for HD's current rapid expansion. -- John

Originally Posted by John Mason:
One method of freeing up bandwidth, eliminating the analog block and using digital-to-analog converters for subscribers requiring analog, might be too costly--even with low-cost converters--if too many subscribers need analog.
___

Once again John M, another thought provoking informative post. It appears that this digital to analog converter idea is the answer to the bandwidth problem. It has to be cost effective in the long run for TWC. The future by law is Digital. TWC has to get more persuasive with its customers to convert from analog to digital. This converter makes sense for the holdouts. TWC has to look forward, get rid of analog already!
___

Originally posted by beatles6:
C'mon Time Warner...get off your HD asses and give us competitive HD programming…
___

Great and concise posts, can’t understand how anyone can misconstrue your point.
___

Originally posted by rgrossman:
The demand for HD service is still too small to justify deleting other services that a lot more people want, and are paying for.
___

How can one make a statement like this? What is it based on? Sales of HD televisions were better than ever in the last two quarters in the tri state area, also, supply could not keep up with the demand nation wide. I don’t buy into the lame argument that HD customers don’t carry the same cash weight than others. This is the type of logic that will cause TWC big bucks in the long run and the exact reason why Cablevision is experiencing a public relations 180 turnaround. Cablevision’s respect for their ever growing HD base is something that TWC should take notice. Cablevision obviously sees the potential cash cow that HD is becoming.

___

Originally posted by rgrossman:
TWC has many premium foreign language channels. How many does Cablevision have? I think this is a significant revenue source for TWCNYC, that it would not want to give up.
___

How can one judge the value of the revenue without comparing the real numbers??? I think it’s more of a "nice" community service fulfillment, rather than some enormous earnings producer that’s stifling the HD customer.
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Originally posted by rgrossman:
Cablevision has a different set of customers than TWC, besides, obviously, a different set of decision-makers. I am not surprised that they have decided on a different strategy regarding HD.
___

Well I believe that’s the point, TWC has to change gears and get a move on already.
___

Originally posted by rgrossman:
It may seem like I'm taking your comments personally, but I'm tired of posts like yours that imply TWCNYC is just "sitting on its ass" (to paraphrase you) and ignoring the demand for HD. I am quite confident that TWCNYC will do what it thinks will maximize its profits. Right now, that doesn't include a lot of HD.
___

Well quite frankly I’m sick of the illogical "defense" for TWC. What would inspire "confidence that they will maximize their profits"????
Perhaps their thinking is wrong.

We can’t even get responses from them-- individually or from a "group" query -- see *jergens letter* from several weeks ago.

Larry

Has anybody noticed a slight PQ deterioration on SD channels when switching from the SA 3100 (non-HD) to the Pioneer 3510? (I have a 32" Hitachi plasma.)
It was enough to make me restore the 3100 -- SD can't afford one hairsbreadth of deterioration, at least via TWC NYC.

Originally posted by LL3HD

Originally posted by rgrossman:
The demand for HD service is still too small to justify deleting other services that a lot more people want, and are paying for.
___

How can one make a statement like this? What is it based on? Sales of HD televisions were better than ever in the last two quarters in the tri state area, also, supply could not keep up with the demand nation wide. I don’t buy into the lame argument that HD customers don’t carry the same cash weight than others. This is the type of logic that will cause TWC big bucks in the long run and the exact reason why Cablevision is experiencing a public relations 180 turnaround. Cablevision’s respect for their ever growing HD base is something that TWC should take notice. Cablevision obviously sees the potential cash cow that HD is becoming.

I won't argue that the sales of HD-capable sets isn't growing--anything that starts small and gets bigger is growing. But it's still quite small in relation to the total number of households. And I think you would be surprised at how many of these HD-capable sets are not being used for HD at all. The general public's knowledge of HD is quite small, even among the people who are buying these sets--a lot just hook up their big, new, widescreen TV's to their new, progressive scan DVD players and are happy. Some even think they've got HD. The rest are clueless.

The people on this forum are enthusiasts, or at least are people looking for info on which to base a buying decision. Don't go by us. Ask 10 random people about HD and 7 will say they've never even heard of it, and 2 others will have incorrect information about it.

As for TWC losing big bucks in the long run, I doubt that very much. There is just no practical alternative for a large part of their customer base. When they can make more money on HD, they'll push it.

___

Originally posted by rgrossman:
TWC has many premium foreign language channels. How many does Cablevision have? I think this is a significant revenue source for TWCNYC, that it would not want to give up.
___

How can one judge the value of the revenue without comparing the real numbers??? I think it’s more of a "nice" community service fulfillment, rather than some enormous earnings producer that’s stifling the HD customer.

30% of the NYC population is foreign-born. Serving them is hardly "a 'nice' community service fulfillment." That's the cash cow TWC is milking. HD is much more expensive to distribute (both is terms of dollar cost and bandwidth) than premium SD channels.

The percentage of households with HD-capable sets is nowhere near 30%. I'd be surprised if it were half that. I think TWC is quite happy to let Cablevision and the other big HD providers spend the money to educate the public about HDTV. When the public demand (not the enthusiasts' demand) is sufficient, then they'll cash in.

I agree with Rich on this point. I'm sure Rich also wants more HD programing, but has settled in on the point that the competitive options for HD in NYC are fairly limited. I would argue that HD customers are probably the most valuable in terms of profit/margin per subscriber by a 3-4x factor due to the demographic of an HD Sub. If there was a more compelling competitive alternative to HD in NYC, I'm sure this would weight heavily on the decision to roll out a broader line up of HD content.

Of course, you could always pony up 2-40 Million to move into the new Time Warner complex on Columbus so that you can subscribe to RCN and get their broad line up of High Def programming. ;)

Drew

I agree that this is a business decision but Comcast also serves a broad range of diverse New York customers and they have a lot more HD. RCN at least has HDNet. Maybe NY1 is a huge bandwidth drain! It's that damn Domenic Carter!

Speaking on NY1, they just moved into a major new, high tech, space over in Chelsea. I was surprised they didn't take the opportunity to upgrade to HD at the time. Not that I want to see Pat Keirnan in HD, but still...

Drew

:cool:
or worse yet...
How about that George Wipple character.. could you imagine those eye brows in HD?.. too much to visualize:D
maybe too little bandwidth is a good thing!

Yeah, but think of "In The Papers" in HD! You could actually read the articles right of the screen! How sweet would that be.

OTOH, Shelly Goldberg in HD might be too much to bear.

Originally posted by drew138
Speaking on NY1, they just moved into a major new, high tech, space over in Chelsea. I was surprised they didn't take the opportunity to upgrade to HD at the time. Not that I want to see Pat Keirnan in HD, but still...

Drew

Have you seen the new facilities? I work in that building and I haven't seen it. The Food Network is also building new digs right upstairs from my office (which has been a construction nightmare, but that's OT). Maybe they'll upgrade to HD! Pasta primavera in stunning 1080i -- I'd probably eat a lot more...

Are they/did they take some space off Oxygen's hands?

TM

Haven't seen the new facilities, but I know there was about a $20M renovation to the new space and it's supposedly pretty state of the art, minus HD studios :-(. Good call on the "In the Papers" comment. That would be pretty nice.

Drew

Originally posted by LL3HD
:cool:
or worse yet...
How about that George Wipple character.. could you imagine those eye brows in HD?.. too much to visualize:D
maybe too little bandwidth is a good thing!

Ah, something LL3HD and I can agree on! I'd like to use some hedgeclippers on those eyebrows.:D

I haven't seen the new facilities but the one time I shopped in Chelsea market (bought some fish) I saw Susan Jhun heading in. I'm an NY1 junkie and am more excited to see one of their newscasters than I would be to see a real celebrity. How silly.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
Just swapped out the analog box for the Pioneer (HD channels look amazing, others look okay, not great) and I specified that I don't want premiums. Yet I'm getting HBOHD etc...

Which of these options is most likely:
1) There's a promotion for the first few days that you get DV (unlikely)
2) the guy hooked me up with extra channels
3) my bill will be bigger than I wanted

I forgot to post an update but my free premiums lasted a little over a week. They're gone now. I miss the Sopranos but other than that I coulnd't care less. I'd rather have more regular channels in HD (and I REALLY want the WB!)

http://www.ny1.com/Content/images/live/34/67337.gif

:)

TOO FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!

My wife works at NY1, I go there all the time to see her in her office. They moved to Chelsea market about 2 years ago. They got all new equipment when they moved in. The facility is awesome. At one point it was the largets newsroom in the world. I think the new CNN office in NY is bigger though. However nothing at NY1 is HD. Everything there is digital, but it is standard digital. They do have some pretty cool equipment though. From what the higher ups at NY1 have said, they will not be going to HD anytime in the foreseeable future.
Therefore I am sad to report there will be no HD "in the papers"

Thanks for the update on NY1 HD. You can let them know via your wife that all 5 of us really want it. ;)

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Are they/did they take some space off Oxygen's hands?

TM

As far as I know, they're only taking the 6th Floor. Oxygen is mostly on the 7th and 8th floors, as well as some of the 3rd I believe.

I have a beef with Oxygen though. Their abuse of the elevator led to the building having to rig it so that you can no longer travel between floors. So if I need to go from the 5th floor to the 6th, I have to go down to the 1st Floor and back up.

Potential newbie question, sorry if this has been asked and answered, but....

I just got my ED television and Pioneer HD box on Tuesday and was semi-distressed last night to discover that the HD feed of the basketball games on channel 702 had the grey bars on the sides of the screen. Is there any way to stretch that channel to full-screen, or is that just the way CBS is broadcasting all the games?

The games last night were not broadcast in HD, so CBS broadcast them with the gray bars are the side. You can't stretch the image b/c the gray bars are part of the image.

CBS is not feeding the games in HD. You can switch the viewing mode on your TV to "stretch" or "expand" if you have that feature which you should if you just bought the TV.

Originally posted by pace1313
I just got my ED television and Pioneer HD box on Tuesday and was semi-distressed last night to discover that the HD feed of the basketball games on channel 702 had the grey bars on the sides of the screen. Is there any way to stretch that channel to full-screen, or is that just the way CBS is broadcasting all the games?

CBS is broadcasting some of the games in HD (1080i, 16:9) and others in SD (480i, 4:3). The signal on Ch. 702 is always 1080i, 16:9, and when the underlying content is SD, it is upconverted by the network to 1080i, and the sidebars are added as part of the picture. "Stretching" such a picture would stretch but not remove the sidebars.

Since you have an ED-, not a HDTV, and I and most others here have no experience with such equipment, you're probably not going to find a definitive answer to your question here. I'd suggest that you experiment with whatever picture-shaping features your TV has as they interact with the aspect-altering modes of the Pioneer box itself (which is not intended for use with an EDTV). For all I know, as far as the basketball games broadcast in SD go, you may be better off watching Ch. 2, not 702, and letting your TV upconvert the signal to 480p if it has that capability, if only because image quality can only suffer by being upconverted by CBS from 480i to 1080p and then downconverted by the Pio box or your TV to your TV's 480p native resolution.

Most HD/ED monitors will not allow you to change the aspect ratio of signals broadcast in HD. Even though the game was SD, you still cannot stretch it on the HD feed (i.e., Ch 702). The answer to your question would have been to just tune to channel '02' which is the SD equivalent of the feed. This is not an HD feed, and therefore can be stretched. The Pio box will allow you to stretch these channels in the settings menu. or you coud switch to a non-HD input (S-Video, Coax,etc.) and let you TV stretch the channel. Most people let the Pio box do the stretching.

Drew

I'd just like to chime in and say...

....shame, shame on you CBS for not broadcasting the true 1080i HD signal for the sweet 16...why not? A few of the top-tier first and second round games were HD, why not the sweet 16? Are they going to screw us for the final four and finals, too????

Thanks for all the info! I actually did a little homework on my own and found the article below (which is probably already somewhere on this vast site). It looks like two of tonight's games and one of Sunday's games are in HD, as well as the Final Four. Of course, the night I'm having people over to watch (Saturday) I'm stuck with grey bars.

HARRIS CORPORATION AND CBS TEAM UP TO BROADCAST NCAA MEN'S BASKETBALL FINAL FOUR AND CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES IN HDTV

12 NCAA Basketball Games To Be Broadcast In HDTV and 5.1 Surround Sound

NEW YORK, March 16, 2004 - Harris Corporation (NYSE: HRS) and CBS Television announced today an agreement in which Harris will sponsor High Definition Television coverage of the 2004 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship, including the Final Four and Championship games.

Coverage will include 12 High Definition games starting with first and second-round action from Kansas City, Mo., on Friday, March 19 (four games) and Sunday, March 21 (two games), as well as regional semi-final and final action from St. Louis, Mo., on Friday, March 26 (two games) and Sunday, March 28 (one game). The first eight games will be regionalized broadcasts, while the St. Louis Regional final, the two national semi-final games and the National Championship Game will be national broadcasts.

The telecasts, which will be presented live by CBS Sports, will be "unified" productions produced in HDTV's highest definition format, 1080i, and downconverted for the CBS Television Network's analog broadcast coverage. This production technique also produces a better quality analog picture. Whether watching in widescreen HD or traditional 4x3 analog, viewers will see the same camera angles, replays and graphics and will hear the same play by play.

Once again, the High Definition NCAA Basketball Tournament games will be broadcast in 5.1 channels of CD quality surround sound. The addition of surround sound audio to the broadcast, coupled with the clarity of 1080 lines of picture resolution, will bring the stadium experience to the viewer's home.

"There is nothing like March Madness, and there is nothing like March Madness in HD and 5.1 surround sound on CBS," said Sean McManus, President, CBS Sports. "HD is the next best thing to being in the arena, and we are very pleased to be partnering with Harris who has done so much to make CBS HD the industry leader. This is the fifth consecutive year we have broadcast the Final Four in HDTV, re-affirming CBS's leadership in HD Sports broadcasting."

"We are extremely pleased to once again be able to sponsor one of the premiere sporting events in United States in HDTV," said Bruce Allan, president and general manager of Harris Corporation, Broadcast Communications Division. "But we are even prouder to be providing the enabling technology for digital television so that CBS can broadcast in HDTV."

CBS Sports' coverage of the 2004 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship Final Four and Championship games will be broadcast live Saturday, April 3 (6:00-11:00 PM, ET) and Monday, April 5 (9:00-11:30 PM, ET) from San Antonio, Texas.

Originally posted by randymac88
I'd just like to chime in and say...

....shame, shame on you CBS for not broadcasting the true 1080i HD signal for the sweet 16...why not? A few of the top-tier first and second round games were HD, why not the sweet 16? Are they going to screw us for the final four and finals, too????

Do some research before you make a ridiculous post like this. There's been a thread on this topic in the programming forum for almost two months:

Link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=372855)

Um, sorry to have apparently "pissed you off" jergens. Being new to this place, this is the only forum that I follow and perhaps I'm just not a knowledgeable as you on your content threads.

I did my research and read the press release before I posted. I think that, regardless of sponsorship arrangements or whatever, CBS still should be broadcasting the tourney in HD - or at least the later rounds.

Besides, I don't feel like my commentary on the availability of CBS' HD programming (or lack thereof) is ridiculous...or at least any MORE ridiculous than the multiple posts about the *eyebrows of the NY1 hosts*. You didn't seem to have an opinion about that.

The problem with CBS and the NCAAs seems to be is that there is still a very limited number of HD broadcast setups--cameras, control trucks etc. They just don't have enough to have them in all the different cities at the same time. This year it's just St. Louis and San Antonio.

Originally posted by randymac88
Um, sorry to have apparently "pissed you off" jergens. Being new to this place, this is the only forum that I follow and perhaps I'm just not a knowledgeable as you on your content threads.

I did my research and read the press release before I posted. I think that, regardless of sponsorship arrangements or whatever, CBS still should be broadcasting the tourney in HD - or at least the later rounds.

Besides, I don't feel like my commentary on the availability of CBS' HD programming (or lack thereof) is ridiculous...or at least any MORE ridiculous than the multiple posts about the *eyebrows of the NY1 hosts*. You didn't seem to have an opinion about that.

As rgrossman said, they don't have enough HD equipment to broadcast every game.

I called your post "ridiculous" because of the following:

(1) rather than asking, "Is CBS broadcasting games in HD this weekend", you "shamed" CBS for not doing something (broadcasting games in HD) that they are, in fact, doing;

(2) you ignored facts posted in mulitple places on this site, the web, and cbs.com that, yes, sweet 16, elite 8, final four and the national championship games are going to be broadcast in HD; and

(3) you asked whether CBS was going to "screw us" on the Final Four and National Championship game.

Now I love HD and I LOVE college hoops, but explain to me how CBS could "screw" any of us out of something we're not paying for?

In any event, questions regarding NATIONAL programming are typically posted in the HDTV programming forum. Matters of local interest (reception issues, questions about area cable service, etc.) are typically posted in this forum.

And, for the record, George Whipple's eyebrows, while tragic, are most definitely a LOCAL concern. :D

1) I "shamed" them for not doing something that they didn't do. That's deliver true HD broadcasts of the sweet 16 rounds - specifically St. Joes, UCONN, Pitt, Syracuse games last night. Not enough trucks? Get more trucks. That's what i'm saying.

2) I didn't ignore facts. I pointed them out. See above.

3) Re: Screwing. No Jergens, you're right. They're not "screwing" anybody. Letting our hopes down? Yes.

Not paying for? I pay a hefty cable bill every month that CBS gets a piece of (albeit a small piece) I'm sure. But what's more, there's a whole lot of ads that I watch, must be at least 60 or 70 *per game* (not including in-game sponsorship) that CBS pulls in tens of millions of dollars for. I pay them every time I watch a commercial (that I can't skip because TWCNY doesn't offer a HD DVR box like RCN does - there...it's a local post). With all of the revenue/profits, I know that they can easily afford two more trucks. Let's go.

CBS doesn't get a dime from your cable bill. Cable companies are required to retransmit all local broadcast stations (the FCC's "must-carry" rule). The only exception is when a station decides to waive the rule, in exchange for a fee. This is what WNJN (Ch. 50) did with TWCNYC.

Originally posted by randymac88
1) I "shamed" them for not doing something that they didn't do. That's deliver true HD broadcasts of the sweet 16 rounds - specifically St. Joes, UCONN, Pitt, Syracuse games last night. Not enough trucks? Get more trucks. That's what i'm saying.

2) I didn't ignore facts. I pointed them out. See above.

3) Re: Screwing. No Jergens, you're right. They're not "screwing" anybody. Letting our hopes down? Yes.

Not paying for? I pay a hefty cable bill every month that CBS gets a piece of (albeit a small piece) I'm sure. But what's more, there's a whole lot of ads that I watch, must be at least 60 or 70 *per game* (not including in-game sponsorship) that CBS pulls in tens of millions of dollars for. I pay them every time I watch a commercial (that I can't skip because TWCNY doesn't offer a HD DVR box like RCN does - there...it's a local post). With all of the revenue/profits, I know that they can easily afford two more trucks. Let's go.

They receive no additional advertising revenue for HD broadcasts. There are no Neilsen ratings for HD broadcasts, so they don't know how many (or few) people are watching. So, they're getting nothing much other than goodwill out of broadcasting the games in HD, and incurring (I assume) a fairly large expense as a result of broadcasing the games in HD.

I'm not saying we should bow down and thank the almighty CBS for giving us the games in HD. But CBS is a leader (IMHO) in HD sports broadcasting (every PGA tour event in 2004 from the Masters on that CBS carries will be in HD!!!). I tend to think they are moving as quickly as they can.

Honestly, check out the thread in the HDTV Progamming area. These issues are discussed at length.

Can the Pioneer box output both DVI and component at the same time? I want to A/B them for a real comparison. The DVI looks a little soft to me compare to the component I've been using.

Also, for those with 4:3 HDTVs, what settings do you use in the Pioneer box for correct aspect ratio detection by the TV? For component I had 16:9 TV with squeeze for 4:3 (I think) since my TV does the 16:9 squeeze for max resolution. That setting doesn't seem to be working right through DVI-D,, however.

Originally posted by cinemagotham
Can the Pioneer box output both DVI and component at the same time? I want to A/B them for a real comparison. The DVI looks a little soft to me compare to the component I've been using.

Also, for those with 4:3 HDTVs, what settings do you use in the Pioneer box for correct aspect ratio detection by the TV? For component I had 16:9 TV with squeeze for 4:3 (I think) since my TV does the 16:9 squeeze for max resolution. That setting doesn't seem to be working right through DVI-D,, however.

As for your first question: the component output from the Pio box is automatically disabled whenever a cable is attached to the DVI port, even if the other end of the cable isn't connected to anything. It's a copy-protection feature.

As for your second question: if my memory still serves me correctly from when I was still using the Pio's DVI, the box's aspect controls are disabled when it's outputting via DVI.

Originally posted by Manatus
As for your first question: the component output from the Pio box is automatically disabled whenever a cable is attached to the DVI port, even if the other end of the cable isn't connected to anything. It's a copy-protection feature.

As for your second question: if my memory still serves me correctly from when I was still using the Pio's DVI, the box's aspect controls are disabled when it's outputting via DVI.

I don't like either of those answers! ;)

The first I can live with but the second is screwed up! I have box set to 4:3 tv with letterbox 16:9 but for HD channels I'm not sure if the TV knows to do the 16:9 squeeze! If by using DVI I'm actually getting lower resolution I'll be sad! Maybe I'll save the DVI input for a DVI DVD player and go component for cable... Any thoughts?

Has anyone heard of a timetable for the rollout of the 8000HD in the TWCNYC market?

Originally posted by orbeyonde
Has anyone heard of a timetable for the rollout of the 8000HD in the TWCNYC market?

TWCNYC has not announced a date for the rollout of any HD-DVR other than "late 2004," after an earlier prediction of "first quarter 2004." I, for one, know of no reason to believe that any TWCNYC-supplied HD-DVR is going to be the SA 8000HD and, based upon the reported experiences of many in territories where TWC has rolled that one out, I hope that TWCNYC can come up with a better alternative.

PS: There's a "delete" button that's available to anyone who, probably like you, has accidentally posted the same message four times in a row in quick succession.

One additional point. It's been reported in many threads here (sorry, too lazy to search for links now) that the release of the 8000HD in markets that use Pioneer software - like NYC - will be later than those that use SA software. IOW, all the markets that currently have the 8000HD happen to use the SA software. While that's a shame for us on the one hand, on the other hand I understand that the Pioneer software is considered superior though why I do not know.

TM

Originally posted by Manatus
I, for one, know of no reason to believe that any TWCNYC-supplied HD-DVR is going to be the SA 8000HD

I can think of one or two reasons to believe it, though it's still just a guess:

1) The only DVR TWCNYC has supplied so far is the SA8000.

2) Perhaps the delay in releasing an HD-DVR is that they are waiting for the Pioneer software for the SA8000HD.

Originally posted by anthonymoody
I understand that the Pioneer software is considered superior though why I do not know.

TM

It appears Pioneer debugs their software a lot more than SA does before releasing it. On the Yahoo SA8000 group a good majority of the complaints is about the SARA boxes.

Originally posted by rgrossman
I can think of one or two reasons to believe it, though it's still just a guess:

1) The only DVR TWCNYC has supplied so far is the SA8000.

2) Perhaps the delay in releasing an HD-DVR is that they are waiting for the Pioneer software for the SA8000HD.

And in the email I received back from TWCNYC regarding the firewire issue (here's the post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3549584#post3549584)), they specifically mentioned the SA8000HD.

I was hoping they'd roll out the Pioneer HD DVR box instead. I suppose anything's possible until TWCNYC actually deploys an HD-DVR. By that time maybe Tivo will have released an HD-capable cablecard version of their DVR.

Back to the Pioneer box and DVI output: Does anyone have this set up with a 4:3 HDTV? What settings are you using? I'm afraid that the settings I used with component (16:9 TV, squeeze for 4:3) will not work correctly over DVI. That's been my experience so far. Anyone?

Can anyone remind me what the rules are re: Cablecard availability?

I'm keenly eyeing Sony's upcoming cablecard capable HD DVRs...just in case TWC takes too long with the 8000HD. But I can't recall if cablecards are something that cable co's *must* make available (and if so, by a certain date), or if it's at their option.

Anyone?
Thanks,
TM

Hi,

I'm new around here and new to HDTV. I am in Staten Island, and have a Pace box connected via component to a Toshiba 57H83. I am using the digital audio out on the Pace to a surround reciever.

Has anyone else noticed that the audio on NBC HD is out of sync with the video at times? I thought it might be my setup, but all the other channels are fine. We were watching Crossing Jordan tonight and it was like a bad chinese dubbed film at times. I noticed it on ER this week too.

Is it just me?


Thanks

Originally posted by anthonymoody
Can anyone remind me what the rules are re: Cablecard availability?

I'm keenly eyeing Sony's upcoming cablecard capable HD DVRs...just in case TWC takes too long with the 8000HD. But I can't recall if cablecards are something that cable co's *must* make available (and if so, by a certain date), or if it's at their option.

Anyone?
Thanks,
TM

I can't find an official FCC release, but this article (http://www.twice.com/article/CA373577.html?display=Video%2FHome+Satellite) mentions that on July 1, 2004, cable providers must provide a cablecard to customers who request one.

I don't know that there will be a single cablecard-ready box available by that time, though. Like you, I've been eyeing that Sony DVR. Thus far, they haven't mentioned that it will have Tivo's software, have they? I know Sony licensed Tivo's software in the past (I have a Sony/Tivo DVR).

I have the Pio 3510 and am having an aspect ratio problem with DVI. Someone in another thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3593324#post3593324) suggested I try to swap for the Pioneer BD-v3500. Anyone know anything about hat? Is it available from TWCNYC? What's the story?

Jergans,
THanks for the link. As to the Sony, to my knowledge they haven't said it'll be a TiVo. Hopefully it will be - I too have a Sony branded TiVo and love the software interface (even my wife does :))

TM

Reader's Guide To FCC Plug & Play Verbiage


By Leslie Ellis -- Multichannel News, 10/20/2003

A time-consuming truth about how to interpret regulatory language is the need to really read it, beginning to end, to best absorb the cadence and gestalt of the situation.

The same is true of technical specifications.

Reading, versus skimming, is like learning a foreign language by physically moving into a house that speaks only that language, versus learning a foreign language from cracking a textbook on alternating Tuesday evenings.

There's no shortage of "foreign language" in the Federal Communication Commission's recent Report and Order on plug-and-play devices, especially for those of us who aren't neck-deep in the situation — or who are knee-deep in several other pressing matters.

Only 85 Pages
This week's translations thus aim to serve as a sort of "reader's guide" to the more frequent terms seasoning the 85-page FCC proceeding. (This isn't so bad, as page counts go. The Digital Video Broadcast/Multimedia Home Platform, or "DVB-MHP" specification, is a stout 1,153 pages.)

First, a bit of context. The FCC ruling exists to mesh two complicated current events: The "digital transition," and a 1996 Congressional mandate to make things like set-tops available at stores. Essentially, it covers everything to do with keeping premium digital video channels safe from theft and copyrighted material safe from unauthorized duplication, in a world where set-tops don't only come from service providers. No easy feat.

The Easy Terms
One acronym appears over and over in the ruling: "MVPD." It's an easy one: Multichannel Video Programming Distributors," like cable and direct-broadcast satellite companies.

Another fairly easy one: "Unidirectional" digital cable receivers. "Uni" means single. One. Unicycle: One wheel. Unidirectional: One-way, from the signal collection point (headend) to the receiver (home).

("Unidirectional" gets you smart points if you're talking to an engineer. "One-way" gets you gratitude points if you're talking to anyone else.)

It follows that the "bi-" in "bidirectional" digital cable receivers means "two" or "both." Two ways: From headend to home, and back.

It's not so easy after that. Take "downresolution," for instance, which people tend to shorten and use as a verb: "Down-rez." To down-rez is to remove parts of a TV picture's information, which lessens its resolution. It's like trying to uncook a stew, remove a few ingredients, and still call it a stew.

More specifically, think of what it would take to reduce a HDTV picture into a standard-definition TV picture (equivalent to today's digital-cable services.) That's downresolution.

"Down-rez" usually swirls around discussions about copyright protection over analog connectors on digital TVs and set-tops. The thinking: If the quality of the picture is lessened, it's perhaps not as tempting to would-be thieves.

As for consumers who already own digital TVs with an analog spigot, "down-rez" means they'd at least have a picture, rather than a blank screen, if a copyright holder (studio) were to restrict its wares (hit movies) over an analog connector.

Like its position on selectable output controls (translated on Oct. 6), cable's stance is to abstain from down-resolution — as long as the DBS providers abstain, too.

The FCC said no to downresolution for broadcast, over-the-air programming. For movies or other types of digital video content, though, it wants more information about how best to proceed.

In the meantime, if cable or DBS providers want to do any down-rezing, they need to notify the FCC a month before they do it.

Multi-Stream PODS
Despite the work of cable's marketers to replace the creepy-sounding "POD" (for "point-of-deployment module") with "CableCARD," the FCC ruling nonetheless teems with PODs. And there's a new POD in the game: The "Multistream POD."

A "multistream POD" is all about the number of tuners in consumer devices. Think of digital video recorders, or DVRs. They started out with a single tuner, meaning that customers were prevented from watching one channel, while recording another. Adding a second tuner corrects that — but what if both tuners are parked on premium channels?

Right now, CableCARDs can handle one encrypted program at a time. The need to do more than one gave life to "multistream POD." Essentially, it's a CableCARD that can decrypt two or more digital video streams at a time. It's on the to-do list for the two-way portion of the cable/consumer electronics negotiations, which continue at a concentrated pace.

The 85-page FCC ruling also includes a "Second Further Notice of Proposed Rulemaking," which roughly means "more stuff that needs reflection before rules can be developed."

More on that next time.

Thanks Drew! That's what I'm *really* waiting for - the 2-way POD stuff. I've really come to enjoy VOD, and I'd rather not give it up (though I still might for the 1st gen Sony)..

TM

Firewire question.
If Time Warner activates the Firewire port on their box, will I be able to hook the cable box to my computer and record HD? In essence I can build my own PVR, not wait till the end of time for a SA-8000 HDPVR, and save what I record. Or could they block that ability, and only allow recording of non hi def material?

Who exactly do you have to call in TWC NYC to get an HD box with firewire per the April 1 FCC mandate? Not even the TWC HDTV hotline (718-670-0265) seems to know what's going on. I've already e-mailed the relevant FCC documentation to two people and have yet to hear back from them.

Anybody have Bob Watson's phone number and e-mail address?

Bob Watson's email: Bob.watson@twcable.com

Phone: 212-598-7363

Keep in mind he's a programming guy and probably won't have an answer to your question. He should be able to put you in touch with a knowledgable tech person, though.

If you speak to him, ask when the bandwidth issues will be resolved so we can get INHD and HDNet!

The firewire ports on cable boxes, TVs, etc are not compatible with computers. It is a proprietary signal with a copy protection scheme. It was never meant to connect to a computer and might short out the firewire card in your computer if you try to use it.

The television industry adopted the firewire cables, connectors, ports and chips because it offered a 400 Mb pipe with already made and readily available components (ie cheap) that offered small interconnects (smaller than DVI), maintained a digital signal, and offered easy expansion (loop though capabilities).