Belmont's gonna be in HDTV today on NBC at 5:30. Go Smarty Jones!

Hi,

When the TW channels aren't broadcasting their prime content in 1080i or 720p, what are they broadcasting in? For example now that the hockey game is over on 707, there are black bars on the side if the news.

Also, what does the Pioneer box do with a 720p signal (707 for example) Does it upconvert it to 1080i, or is it my TV doing it?

Thanks

Adam

Originally posted by almazza
Hi,

When the TW channels aren't broadcasting their prime content in 1080i or 720p, what are they broadcasting in? For example now that the hockey game is over on 707, there are black bars on the side if the news.

Also, what does the Pioneer box do with a 720p signal (707 for example) Does it upconvert it to 1080i, or is it my TV doing it?

Thanks

Adam

Adam --

The signals broadcast by the HDTV stations carried by TWC are always either 720p or 1080i, even when the resolution or aspect-ratio of a program isn't HD or 16:9. The black (or gray) sidebars become a part of the picture when the content is a standard-definition 5:4 program. There are also many programs that have a 16:9 aspect-ratio but are SD not HD, including many movies and, for now, much that's on Ch. 705. Put differently, broadcasters don't down-shift their signals when the content isn't HD or wide-screen.

The Pioneer 3510HD box does with signals whatever the user configures it to do (so long as its component outputs are being used). By pressing the SETTINGS button on the remote control (and then entering the MORE SETTINGS and OUTPUT FORMATS menus), the user can specify which output format(s) (s)he wants it to deliver from among the four possibilities (480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i). Those options aren't available when the DVI output is being used. The conversion from one format to another is called "scaling." Almost all HDTVs have the ability to scale any of the possible formats to their native resolution. Some users prefer to let the TV do the scaling; others want the cable box to do it. My own HDTV, for example, has a native resolution of 720p and will convert any non-720p signal to that resolution. I prefer to have all scaling done by my Pioneer box, however (and have configured it to output only a 720p signal) because my TV's manufacturer recommends having all format-conversions done at that level before the incoming digital signal is converted to analog for transmission over the component output.

Thanks for the info. I'm using the DVI output, any idea what it'll output for that? I'm guessing 1080i, because I have a Panasonic 47WX53, which to my understanding, can't convert an incoming 720p to it's native 1080i.

Thanks

Adam

Cablevision announced today that they added ESPN HD and ESPN Deportes (spanish espn) to their line up.

Beat to the punch again!

Drew

That's swell...

...well at least we have ABC HD.. Ha! they can't say that.
NBA championship in HD.. look at us.

I'm hoping you guys can help me out:

Do any of you have a problem when using the guide with the Pioneer 3510 (using component) on channels 707 and (now) 705?

In the past, when I used the guide on 707, occasionally the box would freak out. Basically, half the screen would turn yellow, the other half gray. I'd have to reset the box to fix this problem. The other day, this started with 705.

My thought was this: FOX and ABC broadcast in 720p, the guide must be in something else, causing the box to fritz out from time to time.

I have a Sammy DLP, so yesterday I set the box to only output 720p, assuming that would fix the problem. Previously I had the box sending 480p, 720p and 1080i. Unfortunately, that hasn't solved the problem. Actually, I've had the box fritz out on 704 and 706 today, which did not happen before I adjusted the outputs.

Has anyone else had this problem? Or do I have a flaky box?

On another note, what's the CURRENT view on DVI quality? A few months ago people thought there wasn't much of a difference between DVI and component. I know TWC and Pioneer have pushed some software updates in recent months. Has this improved quality through DVI?

Thanks!

Originally posted by jergans
I'm hoping you guys can help me out:

Do any of you have a problem when using the guide with the Pioneer 3510 (using component) on channels 707 and (now) 705?

In the past, when I used the guide on 707, occasionally the box would freak out. Basically, half the screen would turn yellow, the other half gray. I'd have to reset the box to fix this problem. The other day, this started with 705.

My thought was this: FOX and ABC broadcast in 720p, the guide must be in something else, causing the box to fritz out from time to time.

I have a Sammy DLP, so yesterday I set the box to only output 720p, assuming that would fix the problem. Previously I had the box sending 480p, 720p and 1080i. Unfortunately, that hasn't solved the problem. Actually, I've had the box fritz out on 704 and 706 today, which did not happen before I adjusted the outputs.

Has anyone else had this problem? Or do I have a flaky box?

On another note, what's the CURRENT view on DVI quality? A few months ago people thought there wasn't much of a difference between DVI and component. I know TWC and Pioneer have pushed some software updates in recent months. Has this improved quality through DVI?

Thanks!

Jergans --

I, too, have a Sammy DLP and a 3510 and haven't seen that problem (my 3510, following a Sammy recommendation, is set to output only 720p). Over the weekend, though, I did occasionally see a different glitch for the first time (perhaps related to the same hypothetical software patch you suspected): When changing to Ch. 704, the screen would split into three parts, each having the same size and position as the three main boxes in the guide. The top two boxes would have identical copies of the upper half of the broadcast image; the wider lower box showed a single, greatly distorted version of the lower part of the image. The problem would go away if I tuned to another channel and came back to 704.

Since I was one of the first to get a 3510 and also to diss its DVI output quality, I'll add a short update. Back then, I suspected that my problem might be due to my having had the Sammy's DVI output calibrated for my DVD player, resulting in a great DVD picture but a less than optimal one from the 3510. After doing some tweaking of the DVI output myself through the TV's service menu, I've achieved a pretty good result, using the 3510, which is now connected via DVI. I find the picture to be noticeably sharper than what I see using component. I'm having the TV professionally recalibrated next month to tune the DVI output more finely for TV watching and the component outputs more finely for the DVD player.

Finally, I have OTA in addition to cable (my apartment has full views of all three midtown HD antenna masts), and, when viewing broadcast HD, I often switch over to OTA, which, to my eyes, is slightly preferable to the output of the 3510. I'm using my OTA receiver's DVI output, at 720p, (leading to a DVI switcher). For now, there's not much OTA DTV that isn't duplicated by TWCNYC (just WPIX-HD and the multicasted SD subchannels of the other stations), but the variety should improve if and when the infamous ESB "combiner" becomes operational.

jergans,

You are not alone. I have the exact same problem. It crashes the 3510 in the manner you described whenever you access the guide AND the box is currently outputting 720p. Setting the box to convert 1080i to 720p by disabling 1080i as an available format will aggravate this problem and cause a crash on all HD channels. Potential workaround would be to disable 720p, and have the box convert 705 and 707 to 1080i, not sure if that would affect PQ though.

I've resigned myself to live with this until the 8000HD is available in Manhattan.

Thanks!

I have the same yellow/grey problem. Just don't hit guide when watching 707!

Originally posted by jergans
I'm hoping you guys can help me out:

Do any of you have a problem when using the guide with the Pioneer 3510 (using component) on channels 707 and (now) 705?

In the past, when I used the guide on 707, occasionally the box would freak out. Basically, half the screen would turn yellow, the other half gray. I'd have to reset the box to fix this problem. The other day, this started with 705.

My thought was this: FOX and ABC broadcast in 720p, the guide must be in something else, causing the box to fritz out from time to time.

I have a Sammy DLP, so yesterday I set the box to only output 720p, assuming that would fix the problem. Previously I had the box sending 480p, 720p and 1080i. Unfortunately, that hasn't solved the problem. Actually, I've had the box fritz out on 704 and 706 today, which did not happen before I adjusted the outputs.

Has anyone else had this problem? Or do I have a flaky box?

On another note, what's the CURRENT view on DVI quality? A few months ago people thought there wasn't much of a difference between DVI and component. I know TWC and Pioneer have pushed some software updates in recent months. Has this improved quality through DVI?

Thanks!

I also have a Sammy DLP and I'm having the same problem, but it happens with all the HD channels for me. It's gotten to the point that I don't use the guide or info buttons when I'm on an HD channel. I'll change to a non-HD one first and then press the button. Otherwise I have to unplug the cable box to reset it. I've also had the '3 split screen' problem Manatus described.

I assume you are using component since you are changing the output formats, I'm using DVI. This is my 2nd Pio 3510 and they've both had the same problem. I actually returned the first one for a different reason, it would reboot at random which is a real pain when using TiVo. Unfortunately my 2nd box still has the reboot at random problem also.

I'm starting to think the Sammy doesn't play well with this box.

I have the Pioneer 3510 connected to my GWIII via DVI, and began experiencing the HD channel guide problem after I exchanged cable boxes for a different reason this past weekend.

Originally posted by vlapietra
I also have a Sammy DLP and I'm having the same problem, but it happens with all the HD channels for me. It's gotten to the point that I don't use the guide or info buttons when I'm on an HD channel. I'll change to a non-HD one first and then press the button. Otherwise I have to unplug the cable box to reset it. I've also had the '3 split screen' problem Manatus described.

I assume you are using component since you are changing the output formats, I'm using DVI. This is my 2nd Pio 3510 and they've both had the same problem. I actually returned the first one for a different reason, it would reboot at random which is a real pain when using TiVo. Unfortunately my 2nd box still has the reboot at random problem also.

I'm starting to think the Sammy doesn't play well with this box.

This is a box problem, not a Sammy problem.

Originally posted by jergans
This is a box problem, not a Sammy problem.
Definitely. I have it likewise with the 3510. Very annoying. My TV is a Panasonic TH-42PWD6UY. I hope this problem is resolved with the next box.

Originally posted by Manatus
Jergans --

I, too, have a Sammy DLP and a 3510 and haven't seen that problem (my 3510, following a Sammy recommendation, is set to output only 720p). Over the weekend, though, I did occasionally see a different glitch for the first time (perhaps related to the same hypothetical software patch you suspected): When changing to Ch. 704, the screen would split into three parts, each having the same size and position as the three main boxes in the guide. The top two boxes would have identical copies of the upper half of the broadcast image; the wider lower box showed a single, greatly distorted version of the lower part of the image. The problem would go away if I tuned to another channel and came back to 704.

Since I was one of the first to get a 3510 and also to diss its DVI output quality, I'll add a short update. Back then, I suspected that my problem might be due to my having had the Sammy's DVI output calibrated for my DVD player, resulting in a great DVD picture but a less than optimal one from the 3510. After doing some tweaking of the DVI output myself through the TV's service menu, I've achieved a pretty good result, using the 3510, which is now connected via DVI. I find the picture to be noticeably sharper than what I see using component. I'm having the TV professionally recalibrated next month to tune the DVI output more finely for TV watching and the component outputs more finely for the DVD player.


Manatus: 1st of all I'm glad you FINALLY are seeing better PQ with DVI on your Sammy than with components - I was one of the earlier posters who from the start saw better PQ on my Sammy via DVI than with components - and you seemed not to believe so. In fact, over the months I think the PQ was IMPROVED over DVI.

Second, your glitch with the guide and the screens dividing into 3 screens has occured intermittently for me ever since the begining when hooking up via DVI. It doesn't happen all the time, just occasionally.

I also use DVI and love the PQ. No issues with the program guide.

Speaking of the program guide, I noticed this slide on a recent CFO presentation the following :

http://www.timewarner.com/mh_060404/pace/slide9.html

just to tourture us in NYC with the HDNET channel lineup.

Drew

Hate to side track from the HD discussion, but I don't have TechTV anymore. Can anyone shed some light on this? Could it be caused by the recent merger between TechTV and G4TV???

I noticed the same thing today also, the channel was available after the merger but for some reason was taken off but I have no idea why either.

Originally posted by cap_167
I noticed the same thing today also, the channel was available after the merger but for some reason was taken off but I have no idea why either.

Same here. They even went through the trouble to update the art for the channel banner, and rename the channel in the guide. You wouldn't think they would do that if they weren't planning on carrying the new channel.

At any rate, I imagine that comcast inherited whatever distribution contract techtv had with time warner. I just checked their channel lineup on their website, it's definately gone..

Anyone not at work want to call them up and get the story? I'll be pretty upset if they removed it permanently, that is one of about 12 channels I watch with any regularity at all.

Looks like they may have dropped it entirely.

http://forums.g4tv.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=160456&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=1

Happened to catch a crawler on the weather channel saying TWC had dropped techTV and replaced it with the current game channel. TWC here seems to put most of its operational news as crawlers on 72 (S. Manhattan). Immediately tuned to that game channel (105), where they were just wrapping up a review--and still identifying themselves as techTV. (BTW, as an aside, a completely unlisted 'secret' channel can be seen by entering 78 (S. Manhattan). It's the United Nations channel, and it's still weird TWC lists all the Manhattan Neighborhood Network and required city channels and not the U.N.) -- John

OMG, I am soooooo pissed that G4TechTV is gone. I think I'll be looking at alternatives...

No 105 in Northern Manhattan (or 78).

If G4/TechTV is gone then we've got big problems. I love that channel! Who are the people that make these idiotic decisions at Time Warner NYC.

Seriously, between the lack of HD channels and recent channel decisions, this story is ripe for media coverage!!!!!!!!!

Hi all,

This thread is great. I have a Panny TH-50PHD6UY and I have the Pio HD box from TWCNYC. The box is crappy and I have had to have 3 appointments (next one this saturday) to have it replaced. It reboots on its own and is all aroudn unreliable. My question is what output format should I set my box to all 4 (480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i) or just leave it the way it is at 720p and 1080i. ALso my display, when connected through component video to a source autmoatically goes to 16:9 and will not allow a change of aspect ratio, anyone else have that problem. Finally, a friend of mine has a fujitsu and he can stretch 4:3 HD programming on his display (ABC HD< NBC HD etc). I don't sem to be able any clues?
Thanks.

I wrote the following letter to David Pogue, Technology Journalist at the Times. He wrote a recent article on Voom's service and seemed like the proper contact to share our thoughts. Here is a link to his Voom article http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/03/technology/circuits/03stat.html and here is the text of the email I sent him:

David,

As an avid fan of HDTV, I enjoyed your recent article about Voom's service (even though there were some corrections). As a frequent poster to the AVS Forum for High Definition @ Time Warner Cable NYC, I must share with you that there is a huge audience of dissatisfied TWCNYC HD subscribers. Our major complaints are as follows:
* Few customer service reps who are able to answer even the most rudimentary HD-related questions
* The lack of an HD-DVR, which was originally promised (on the TWCNYC website) in the first quarter of 2004
* The slimmest menu of HD programming choices of any TWC affiliate.

We've tried contacting Time Warner associates, but continue to receive the runaround. In your opinion, is there any merit in doing a story on the high price of Time Warner Cable in NYC (one of the biggest markets/cities in the world) compared to the terrible performance subscribers receive? If you're interested in reading more about our feedback, please visit the following forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=297592

Thanks and good luck,

Ethan Shapiro

Originally posted by cap_167
I noticed the same thing today also, the channel was available after the merger but for some reason was taken off but I have no idea why either.

Indeed! Yesterday I thought it was just that one in 1,000 times TiVo zaps the channel changes incorrectly, but no - Time Warner Cable in New York City has pulled G4TechTV. They have no plans to bring it back. If you care, you can write to:

Robert watson
Vice-President Programming: New Business and Development
Time Warner Cable
120 E 23rd St Fl 9
New York NY 10010

I certainly will though at this point I don't know whether Comcast jacked up the charge or caprice on that part of TWC that their "competitor" (like we have a choice) now controls the channel. I have DirecTV in my building and this brings me closer to the tipping point - as I have LOS to the ESB it's only the cost of the HDTivo that's keeping me with TWC now that we have no new HD channels till year end (not even having all the broadcast networks is maddening), more delays on the SA-8000HD, and now the loss of one of my favourite channels.

Found this on the G4 forums,

Thank for your support fellow TWCNYC Subscribers.
I just got off the phone with g4's receptionist. According to what she knows thus far...
They found out about it last night. It is a glitch in Time Warner's systm. No estimated time when it will be fixed but they are working on it.
Keep calling the G4TECHTV VIEWER HOTLINE @ (800) 839-7880 and leave messages. keep Posting to the forum!
Keep the updates coming!
We won't give up until it is back, Keep up the good fight!


TWC says they dropped the channel, a G4 receptionist says its a glitch?? :confused:

Please check out Cablevisions HDTV channel lineup (http://www.io.tv/index.jhtml?pageType=hdtv_channels) and then you will agree with me that TWC stands for The Worst and Crappiest...It is unbelieveable that TWCNYC has the slimmest and crappiest HDTV lineup of everyone. I am not allowed to put a dsih in my baclony otherwise I would had Voom a long time ago. And cablevision foes not serve my area so Iam screwed. Sucks...How can cablevision have all teh premium channels and sposrt channels in HD and all we have is 3 crappy broadcasters, two premium and no sports...Sucks. I wish we could start a petition or something.

This has been discussed to death in this thread previously. To summarize:

1) TWCNYC is not in competition with Cablevision, or any other cable system.

2) What Cablevision, or any other cable system, including any other TWC system, is doing, has little if any relevence to what TWCNYC can or wants to do.

3) TWCNYC has reached the limit of its bandwidth. It has no room for any more HD channels on its system. The bandwidth cannot be increased in the near future.

4) TWCNYC is working on reassigning some of its current bandwidth to HD, apparently by converting at least some of its analog channels to digital, which uses far less space. They have indicated this will be done by the end of the year (though some people are skeptical of this).

If you want, you can look at my previous posts in this thread for my theories on why Cablevision is different. You can also look at other people's posts about petitions, etc., and my responses as to why I think it's a waste of time and energy.

:D LOL,

Rich, how did I know that you’d chime in with your granite supposition.


Ethan,
Great letter to David Pogue. I enjoy reading his weekly column. He has the ability to connect with the teckno-geeks along with the flashing 12 o’clock average Joe. He also seems to be an approachable writer. Hopefully this will start some chatter.


Larry

[QUOTE]Originally posted by smitf7
I am not allowed to put a dsih in my baclony otherwise I would had Voom a long time ago.
[QUOTE]

I believe there was a federal law passed that allows you to place a dish up depsite the objections of a co-op board, housing association, or landlord.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Note that are a few restrictions permitted, i.e, you may not be able to install on a fire escape (is that your "balcony"?), but you may be legally entitled to install the dish.

Good luck.

I'm new to NYC and currently have TW but I'm going to switch to RCN because they have HD DVR and ESPN HD & HD NET. Curious why others haven't.

A lot of people have no choice. You're either wired for one or the other. And that's that. TW has a monopoly on my neighborhood and many others.

I have TWC. I don't have an HDTV TV. Is there a way to hook up my cable box to my computer so that I can watch HDTV on it. My monitor supports HDTV resolutions, but my regular TV does not. I looked on the other forums, but they talk about capture cards, which I would like to avoid since I have the TWC box. Or maybe I could just output to the computer monitor directly? What do you think?

All,

I got frustrated yesterday and sent a complaint to the Dept. of Information Technology & Telecom of NYC and got the following response. I'm posting my reply to their email from a few minutes ago...


Mr. Fields,

Thank You. I'm glad to see that the City of New York values email communication and I appreciate the response. However, I moved to NYC about 3 months ago from Charlotte, NC and I can verify that TWCNYC has the least HDTV channels of all the TWC affiliates. I would love for you to take a look at the AVS Forum specific to Time Warner NYC HDTV. You should be able to read about the HD community's frustration and compare TWC NYC to other affiliates. The forum is located at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=297592

Feel free to post any information that would be helpful to the community.

Thanks,

Ethan
----- Original Message -----
From: Fields, Marvin
To:
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 3:44 PM
Subject: Cable TV programming


Dear Mr. Shapiro:

We are responding to your comments regarding the HDTV channels provided by Time Warner Cable (TW) in New York City. Perhaps you were misinformed; TW systems have been upgraded to state-of-the-art Hybrid Fiber Coax (HFC) 862Mhz bandwidth technology. TW officials have stated that they have more HDTV channels in New York than other TW systems. They indicate that they continue to negotiate with programmers to add more HDTV channels. For your information neither the City, State nor Federal government has regularity authority regarding programming carriage.

Thank you for using NYC.gov the City’s official web site.

Sincerely,

Marvin Fields

Executive Director, Franchise Administration
Department of Information Technology & Telecommunications
75 Park Place 9th Fl
New York, NY 10007
212-788-6490

From: ( )
Subject: DOITT Cable Complaint cable.0610010022

Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by
() on Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 01:00:22
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This form resides at
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doitt/html/consumer/consumer_cable_service_form.shtml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
fname: ethan
lname:
address:
aptnum:
city: new york
state: ny
zip: 10016
phone:
company: twc
Email:
programming: y
upgrade: y
other: y
comments: Time Warner New York City lags far behind all other affiliates of Time Warner throughout the United States. Time Warner makes bandwidth excuses for this shortage of High Definition channels but something needs to be done.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good idea to write to the Franchise Authority. Interesting response. I think it was pretty clear in their response that they were telling you that they couldn't help.

Cablevision is a big believer in HDTV and are probably on the forefront of HD channels. They are also the backers of Voom (HD DBS).

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
Good idea to write to the Franchise Authority. Interesting response. I think it was pretty clear in their response that they were telling you that they couldn't help.

I've found that it can be productive to file a complaint with the NYC DOITT when dealing with some TWCNYC problems (like the 6 weeks it took to get it to activate the MAC address of a cable modem that I'd bought). Complaints are automatically passed on to TWCNYC, and the company does pay attention to them. But I'm afraid that baying at the moon is a more rewarding activity than complaining to the agency about something, like content, over which it has no jurisdiction.

For anyone wanting it, here's a link to the agency's on-line complaint area: DoITT Cable Complaints (http://www.nyc.gov/html/doitt/html/cable.html)

TW officials have stated that they have more HDTV channels in New York than other TW systems

Can you say Bull$@#&

Marvin recently replied...

I'll take a look at the site. I believe that tw in ny would attempt to have the largest amount of hdtv channels because of the market itself. That's where more hdtv sets are sold. There is definately a differance in programing costs here vs other rural locations. Hdtv is getting there but slowly.

Regards
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

I think he "assumed" that TWCNYC had the most out of all affiliates without actually knowing that they didn't. To be honest, if I hadn't read the forums prior to moving to NYC I would have assumed that NYC had the best lineup too.

Well if he "assumed" that NY's system would have the most HDTV programming, I can not understand why he said that "TW officials have STATED that they have more HDTV channels in New York than other TW systems"

He also said Perhaps you were misinformed... Seems he was misinformed or was just misinforming you without knowing any facts what so ever.

New York does have the most HDTV channels if you take the small number of channels offered by Time Warner, and then multiply it by the large number of HDTV sets here. Sadly, we as individual TV owners have the least of all other Time Warner consumers...
Maybe they will soon correct this error ;).

Our Road Runner is out since Saturaday, so is the VOD. Called TWC twice, they don't know when the service will be back (totally unacceptable). Anybody out there has more information?

Hey all you TWC-NYC complainers--It could be worse. You could have DirecTV or Dish. There HD offerings are truly the worst. No NBC, No ABC, No Fox. HDNet and HD Movies are pretty worthless, except if you watch hockey or you like cheesy local Dallas rock bands. And one thing that TWC-NYC has over Cablevision, the popular SD channels look much better. Cablevision still uses analog feeds of most channels below 100. That means CNN, TNT, MTV, ESPN, VH1, TBS, USA, ComedyC, and many more. I recently moved from NYC to Rockland County (Cablevision) and even with the increased amount of HD programming, I still watch about 60% SD and 40% HD. Analog SD channels on my projector and flat screen displays is basically unwatchable. So I am currently a DirecTV subscriber, but as soon as Cablevision goes all digital I will switch.

Also, interesting to note: the most advanced TWC division is in Hawaii. Why? Because they have a smaller customer base, and their customers are laid back. It's easier for them to implement upgrades and changes to their system. Sounds funny but it's true. NYC is a huge market and very vocal about problems they have. (As witnessed on this forum.) But before I get flamed, I agree that they need to get on the ball. And as far as CV and Comcast not being competition. It's true, except that all these guys know each other. And when they go to conferences they definitely compare notes and want to be the leader. Over all it's good for their bottom line. If they can say they have the best this or that and they are rolling out "blah, blah, blah" before anyone else. It is a huge marketing boost and encourages investment.

Originally posted by shadowbox
And one thing that TWC-NYC has over Cablevision, the popular SD channels look much better. Cablevision still uses analog feeds of most channels below 100.

Interesting. The same applies to RCN, at least in S .Manhattan. I never watch RCN's <100 analog channels--instead, mostly its 3 'extra' HD channels, 2 HDNets and ESPN-HD--and find TWC's digital 1-100 SDs fairly good quality, depending on the video source. -- John

They have allocated analog channels 81-93 for removal and reclaim the bandwith for HDTV, VOIP, VOD. Analog Starz! on Channel 92 will be the first to go then the "Metrochoice" channels. This will take several months as a large installed base of CFT2200 STB in Manhattan and Pioneer 9000 STB in Queens and Brooklyn have to be swapped for Digital STB. Estimated completion is Q3 or Q404

interesting information twcinsider. if you truly are a TWC insider it will be nice to have you with us. maybe you or someone else can remind me (i'm pretty sure it was posted somewhere in this thread) but how many HD channels could they add if they were to allocate all the bandwidth held by those 13 channels?

I believe the ratio is about 2 HD channels/analog channel, so that would mean 26 new HD channels.

This is now the third time we're hearing chatter that this is in the works, so I am inclined to believe it. It seems they're gradually notifying handfuls of customers at a time, hence why some people are starting to get notices, and others have heard nothing.

About the HD though, I doubt we'll see 26 new channels. Maybe a few, with the rest of the bandwidth going to VOD and other services.

Yes, it's nice to have twcinsider aboard. Hope not too many of those potential ~26 channel slots get permanently allocated to cable telephone and video-on-demand use. There's a long--and growing--list of HD channels that could be added.

BTW, twcinsider, if there's a 'large base' being upgraded to digital converters, any estimate on how much larger the base is of 1-80-only customers remaining (for eliminating all analog)?

Regarding cable phone service, now at some TWC and other MSO locations, does anyone know if this cable phone service avoids some of the outrageous taxes now on telephone bills? Anyone with Vonage or other cable phone service compare taxes with conventional service? Thanks. -- John

does anyone know if this cable phone service avoids some of the outrageous taxes now on telephone bills? Anyone with Vonage or other cable phone service compare taxes with conventional service? Thanks. -- John

I do know someone with Vonage and pays $24.99 flat from what he told me. It doesn't have the taxes and other small charges like phones services. Hopefully it stays that way. Would be nice if TWCNYC could offer VOIP.

Interesting, I wonder if with the new laws saying you can "keep" your phone number (this may be only with cell phones not sure) if you could get VOIP and keep your current home phone number.

With Vonage you are able to keep your phone number, however not all numbers are transferable. Supposedly it takes time for numbers to become transferable.

With Vonage there's an option for keeping your number (see its website). Before dropping RCN's phone service recently (due to taxes) and switching to Verizon/AT&T, I investigated Vonage and believe they had a ~$20 or less basic package. (A bit removed from HDTV, I guess, except it's apparently soon going to compete with how much new HD TWC NYC gives us.) If Vonage and MSOs aren't adding all those telephone-use taxes I can imagine the briefcases of lobbyist money flowing into Congress to change the tax law. -- John

"With Vonage there's an option for keeping your number (see its website)."

Yes, but apparently not all numbers can be transfered like my own number for instance.

I believe VOIP carriers are exempt from charges, but many larger companies choose to collect and remit the taxes to be safe since there is some ambiguity.

Here is a link to TWC-NC site about taxes and other FAQ's re: digitalphone.

http://www.twc-nc.com/digital_phone/faq.cfm#What%20kind%20of%20taxes%20will%20I%20be%20charged

TWC has publicly stated that all markets will offer VOIP by the end of 2004. I'm sure the bandwidth re-allocation will partially be consumed by VOIP, however, I would suspect that more HDTV channels are coming this way to-wards year end. I would think that the installation of DigitalPhone in NYC apt's would be a major challenge so I wouldn't be surprised if they choose to roll it out in some odd manner so that they can say to wall street that they deployed it in NYC, but not bear the full burden on dealing with all of the logistical issues with rolling out the service in nyc.

I think the % of analog customers is still approaching 40-50% of all subscribers. The re-claiming of this bandwidth is some long, long, long time away. There may be some options to slowly decrease the channels offered on the analog tier. Perhaps twcinsider could provide some insight. I know that an engineering conference earlier this year was looking at options at deploying d/a converters, but that is still a nightmare.

Also, I agree with mikeny that twcinsider appears to have clear, non-conflicting information about the plans to reclaim the analog spectrum above ch. 80. Welcome and thanks for passing this information along.

Drew

Check out this article.

It’s not specifically TWC related but it’s of interest. It’s about the new splicing system that Fox will utilize for the "coming soon" Fox HD.
It’s relevant to the current talk on this thread regarding bandwidth.

Courtesy of the HD Library web site.

http://www.tvweek.com/technology/061404foxhd.html


Larry

I guess the top brass at TWC, and others in the industry don't think HDTV is a real revenue/profit booster. Article below.

Drew


HDTV: They’re Not in It for the Money


By Linda Moss -- Multichannel News, 6/16/2004 5:48:00 PM

New York -- Several top MSO, programming and ad-agency officials said Wednesday that they view HDTV as a cost of doing business, and not a potential profit center.

“Specific profitability is lost in the long term,” Time Warner Cable executive vice president of programming Fred Dressler said during a Cable & Telecommunications Association for Marketing panel on HDTV here.

“Everybody in the beginning was looking at a way to profit from this thing … There really isn’t a revenue stream there,” he added.

His fellow panelist, Dennis Quinn, executive VP of business development for Turner Broadcasting System Inc., referring to Turner Network Television, said that a if programmer is a top-four cable network and holds important sports rights like the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing and the National Basketball Association, its viewers expect HDTV programming.

“It is the price of being a leader long-term,” he added.

On the agency side, panelist Tim Hanlon, senior VP of Starcom Mediavest Group, told CTAM attendees that producing HDTV programming is not that much more costly than standard-definition fare. “It’s a cost of doing business going forward,” he added.

Ironically, the CTAM panel was entitled, “Leveraging HDTV: Putting Profit in the Picture.”

Of course, a little press never hurts. I've extracted out the best quote in the article; but the entire article is also presented below. Although I'd say we're looking for more that just 4 additional HD channels......

This is a pretty major development as this was published in a major Cable Industry publication; cover story.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com

Drew

Quote:
"Some systems are already feeling crunched, particularly in markets with a large number of broadcast stations. HD cable subscribers in Manhattan, for example, are frustrated that Time Warner Cable doesn't have room for four HD channels in New York City (including Time Warner-owned TNT HD), the biggest market in the country. Cable networks say they're facing similar problems in other markets heavy with broadcast stations that have gone HD. "

Entire Article:
Cable Operators; Still No Space 85 Billion Dollars Later
500 channels and there's too much going on. But a secret squad of techies is working on the fix.

By John M. Higgins and Ken Kerschbaumer -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/14/2004

After spending $85 billion rebuilding systems to deliver the vaunted "500-channel" universe, the largest cable companies in the U.S. confront an improbable dilemma: Systems are running out of space.

In addition to high-speed Internet services, movies-on-demand, and new digital networks, cable operators are squeezing in the biggest bandwidth hog: HDTV channels.

The specter of a cable system too choked for space to add services has already jolted the industry's power players into creating a secret organization to avoid a crisis.

Code-named NGNA, for "Next Generation Network Architecture," the project involves the three titans of the industry—Time Warner, Comcast, and Cox—that together reach almost 38 million subscribers.

Created last summer, the group has quietly marshaled outside engineers to completely rethink the technology to create more capacity.

So secretive is the NGNA project that many executives in the industry and on Wall Street know little or nothing of it. "What the hell is NGNA?" asked the president of another cable operator, echoing the words of two senior Wall Street analysts.

Nonetheless, NGNA is a red-hot topic among cable-technology suppliers, who say that the changes the group is seeking could transform cable systems in the same way that the use of fiber optics did. The hybrid fiber/coax architecture proved to be reliable and flexible and allowed cable operators to offer many services they hadn't originally envisioned.

Industry executives familiar with NGNA are bound by non-disclosure agreements and would not detail discussions for the record. What they describe privately is an effort in which increasing capacity is just part of the mission. Operators are fundamentally rethinking dozens of critical functions at a cable system and mulling everything from new encrypting strategies to set-top boxes that can be dramatically upgraded by simply uploading software.

Even the most fundamental aspects of how cable operators deliver TV signals could be changed—all in an effort to squeeze more space out of the wires they own. Instead of offering hundreds of channels at once, cable operators might conceivably offer "switched video," treating every channel the way systems treat VOD movies; sending one digital packet at a time.

Executives at the three companies acknowledge the NGNA project—first disclosed by CED magazine—but decline to offer details. The executives say only that the effort will ride on existing fiber and that the group's plan does not call for tearing up the system and replacing trunks, as the fiber upgrades did.

"We're not going to rebuild our plant; we don't think we need to," says Dallas Clement, a senior vice president at Cox Communications. "We think there are lots of levers, lots of creative ideas out there that can continue to make our plant very competitive and very relevant."

At the moment, plain old analog channels take up the most space. Two-thirds of the capacity of most cable systems is sucked up by transmitting 80 or so basic, pay, and pay-per-view channels as analog signals. One answer NGNA is pondering: If every customer were given a digital cable box—an expensive proposition for cable companies—all the channels could be digitally compressed into a tenth of the space. That would essentially triple the amount of space available for other services.

While the 500-channel proclamation has been widely derided over the years, the cable industry has delivered on that promise, and much more. From a single wire snaking into the home, cable subscribers can get Web radio, cheap telephone service, and The Sopranos on-demand.

The problem—as cable operators have come to recognize—is that TV's digital future requires far more bandwidth than first envisioned. Many of the 500 channels, for example, will command far more space when they transition to high-definition TV. The sharp picture quality requires more data, which takes up more space. And some major markets have more than a dozen broadcast stations, which are all going digital.

Some systems are already feeling crunched, particularly in markets with a large number of broadcast stations. HD cable subscribers in Manhattan, for example, are frustrated that Time Warner Cable doesn't have room for four HD channels in New York City (including Time Warner-owned TNT HD), the biggest market in the country. Cable networks say they're facing similar problems in other markets heavy with broadcast stations that have gone HD.

Still, operators have lots of ways to cope with the capacity problem in the short term, such as "reclaiming" analog channel slots. For example, to reclaim analog slots used by pay channels, a system could give only those subscribers digital boxes, then compress them digitally to free up space.

"Bandwidth is not an inhibitor at this point," says Mark Cuban, the billionaire founder of HD-programming startup HDNet. "In about five years, it could be a huge issue."

But the search for a long-term solution prompted the creation of NGNA. The effort emerged last year among top engineers at the three cable companies, which together reach two-thirds of the nation's cable subscribers. After much discussion with peers in the telecom and computer industry, they moved to galvanize a campaign to marshal their ideas.

What equipment companies find remarkable is that the cable operators are inviting so many of them in at the beginning of the process. Typically, cable operators tell vendors, " 'Here's the architecture we want. Bid on it,'" says an executive with one company involved in the NGNA process. "Here, it's 'What do you think our network should be?'"

In March, the companies invited executives from 60 vendors to Phoenix. More than 100 people sat in a Hyatt Regency ballroom for five hours as cable executives on stage detailed how they see the future network. Much of the discussion centered on a device that's key to cable's future, dubbed the "outlet digital adapter."

The device would allow cable operators to take their systems completely digital cheaply. Right now, digital boxes, at around $130 apiece, are too expensive to install in every subscriber's home. Executives say a new digital adapter that will display digital signals on ordinary TV sets could be simple and cheap, $35-$50.

The NGNA process has changed the minds of many engineers already. Initially, some cable operators thought that the low-end digital adapter would be pretty dumb. Operators now see it as smart enough for a remote control and an on-screen menu, letting subscribers use VOD systems. Comcast, in particular, wants to offer some free on-demand programming to every customer.

Committees of engineers are collaborating on various sections of a major report due out sometime this summer. "It would be great to see it in July," says one cable executive involved in the project. "I'd be disappointed to see it in early September."

Some elements of the plan could start appearing as early as two years from now, while the most sweeping affects could take five to seven years.

One senior industry engineer notes that cable operators primarily envisioned fiber in the late 1980s as a way to improve cable's reliability; the design unexpectedly enabled many new products that are driving the industry today.

"Every time you advance the technology," says the engineer, "you find that the benefits are broader than what you thought."[COLOR=sandybrown]

Originally posted by drew138
I guess the top brass at TWC, and others in the industry don't think HDTV is a real revenue/profit booster.

From the start HDTV has been driven by the TV manufacturers, who are the only ones making money off of it.

The only way the broadcasters signed on was that they were given new broadcast spectrum, and the right to multicast on it. Maybe someday they'll have to give back their old slots. For the content producers, the networks, and the cable companies it was mostly just an added expense, with little if any extra revenue to cover it.

Agreed.

Originally posted by drew138

I guess the top brass at TWC, and others in the industry don't think HDTV is a real revenue/profit booster.

*They won't necessarily profit from the HD feed itself. But, they COULD profit from the value proposition that having a full suite of HD channels brings to the consumer - a la cablevision. Problem is, at least in NYC, there's very little competition. For example, I'd bet many of us (or at least, myself) would switch over to RCN if we could, solely for their superior HD lineup.

I would switch to RCN in a heartbeat. Funny, I thought I was moving to the best city in the world when I got here from Charlotte. Who would have known that TWC would be so late to the game with HD.

Originally posted by DJ Frustration
I would switch to RCN in a heartbeat. Funny, I thought I was moving to the best city in the world when I got here from Charlotte. Who would have known that TWC would be so late to the game with HD.
You did move to the best city in the world. It just doesn't have the best HD lineup! :cool:

Couple things...

1) I definitely agree that the likelihood of getting 26 HD channels added is nil. My guess/hope is 6-8.

2) SeaChange Intl (Nasd: SEAC - disclaimer I own this stock) which supplies most of the back end infrastructure for most of the VOD systems deployed by the largest cable companies, just announced an HD capable upgrade to their product line. In the announcement it wasn't clear what, if anything, needed to be done by carriers to allow for the upgrade (i.e. would they have to buy/deploy new hardware or if it could be upgraded remotely via software), but in any case I take this as really good news.

3) FWIW my uncle got the Cablevision phone service in Westchester and he pulled the plug (literally) and went back to Verizon b/c the service was abysmal. Said it felt like running Windoze 3.1 on his phones :) Got a dial tone only about 50% of the time (really)...YMMV of course.

4) WELCOME TWCinsider...if you are really a TWCinsider :) And thanks for the info...please keep it coming.

TM

Originally posted by anthonymoody
SeaChange Intl (Nasd: SEAC - disclaimer I own this stock) which supplies most of the back end infrastructure for most of the VOD systems deployed by the largest cable companies, just announced an HD capable upgrade to their product line. In the announcement it wasn't clear what, if anything, needed to be done by carriers to allow for the upgrade (i.e. would they have to buy/deploy new hardware or if it could be upgraded remotely via software), but in any case I take this as really good news.

[/B]

Well, if TWCNYC introduces some kind of HD-VOD service soon, that'll make for a tough choice should Tivo introduce a CableCARD compatible DVR. If you use a CableCARD box rather than the TWCNYC box, you lose VOD, right? Of course, neither HD-VOD nor a CableCARD HDTivo exist...

TM, isn't it time to change your signature? Jeter's hitting .420 in June with an OBP of .490. All he needed to get well was a few visits from the O's and their "pitchers."

jergans,
Yeah to my knowledge v1.0 cablecard is one-way, so no VOD. Supposedly v2.0 (which likely wont appear on the market for a bit...) will be bidirectional and allow VOD and other interactive capabilities.

As for my signature...yeah someone else mentioned that to me too. Thing is, I made that my signature the day before he started hitting (really!). Prior to that, I'd made my signature something like "Ok Yankees fans, is it time to panic yet?" when they were 8 - 11. So maybe now I should make it something like "Should we be worried about Brown's back?" or "How come Giambi is hitting .250 again?" :)

TM

Is it just me or is channel 705 not working for everyone else. For some it didn't want to show any picture today; the screen was black. Anyone else have this problem?

Yes, I saw the same problem. Had to use channel 005...

Originally posted by cap_167
Is it just me or is channel 705 not working for everyone else. For some it didn't want to show any picture today; the screen was black. Anyone else have this problem?

This isn't a TWCNYC problem: WNYW-DT has been on and off the air (mainly off) for the past several days.

Hey Manatus I just noticed your location. I'm in the WV too...just off Abingdon Square...you?

TM

Gah! The digital cable is freaking out so bad. We're not going to be able to watch the stupid second part of Salems Lot. What gives? TWC is really ticking me off!


ETA: Wheee!! never mind. I just took a splitter off the line and it works fine.

Now, ask me what I think of not getting TNT in HD :mad:

Fox 705 was still blank/black screen last night. I was hoping to catch The Casino in widescreen. I read an article that Mark Burnett decided to tape the reality show in HD, but ironically couldn't show it in HD on fox until they make the switch.

Is everyone having the 705 Fox black out?

Thanks

Drew

UWS here, and yes, 705 was blacked out last night. 706 was blacked out for me too over the weekend, until it came back yesterday - but it was unwatchable due to breakups and pixelation.

705 was blacked out again last night. 706 has been fine every evening.

Wow, just discovered this forum after spending some time on the AVS CRT and DVD forums. Now that I got my two HDTVs and my zenith dvd player, it's time to move to this forum which will cater to my HD needs being a TWC customer in NYC.

So far, I've learned that tonight I'm going to make a second video connection from my pioneer 3510HD to my new Toshiba 34hFX83 via S-Video to see if I can get improved standard cable reception on my non-HD channels. I may do the same with my second HD connection in the bedroom with my new Zenith C27V36.

I also learned why I cannot adjust the scaling or output -- I use a DVI cable. So, I ordered yet another component cable from Ram Electronics and will try that out, for comparison and for control of the scaling.

Third, I learned that TWC HD programming is weak relative to other cable companies, and that RCN's is better. Interesting. I do fortunately have the choice of switching within my coop. As a matter of fact, I have switched twice already: From TWC to RCN back to TWC. I switched to RCN when they were babes because they were much cheaper, then I switched back to TWC cos RCN's cable modem is slooooooooooow and I wanted the same provider for both cable and internet. Now, perrrrrrrhaps I want TWC for internet and RCN for cable? It'll cost me though, that I know. I think I'll try waiting TWC out a bit for this new HD-DVR box and additional HD programming. I've not had this stuff for but a month now and do not have the same level of suffering as the rest of the more experienced HDTV-TWCNYC users here.

Thanks everyone for the active forum that is "so close to home".

Living and working in NYC,
- walkman

Make sure you come back with the results of the S-video test.

And the no adjustments over DVI thing is really annoying. I'm using component because of it.

Interesting about the adjustments and the DVI. I currently use DVI, and don't really know what you're talking about. Can someone point me to the thread or explain to me what I'm missing?

Originally posted by walkman666
Wow, just discovered this forum after spending some time on the AVS CRT and DVD forums. Now that I got my two HDTVs and my zenith dvd player, it's time to move to this forum which will cater to my HD needs being a TWC customer in NYC.

So far, I've learned that tonight I'm going to make a second video connection from my pioneer 3510HD to my new Toshiba 34hFX83 via S-Video to see if I can get improved standard cable reception on my non-HD channels. I may do the same with my second HD connection in the bedroom with my new Zenith C27V36.

I also learned why I cannot adjust the scaling or output -- I use a DVI cable. So, I ordered yet another component cable from Ram Electronics and will try that out, for comparison and for control of the scaling.

Third, I learned that TWC HD programming is weak relative to other cable companies, and that RCN's is better. Interesting. I do fortunately have the choice of switching within my coop. As a matter of fact, I have switched twice already: From TWC to RCN back to TWC. I switched to RCN when they were babes because they were much cheaper, then I switched back to TWC cos RCN's cable modem is slooooooooooow and I wanted the same provider for both cable and internet. Now, perrrrrrrhaps I want TWC for internet and RCN for cable? It'll cost me though, that I know. I think I'll try waiting TWC out a bit for this new HD-DVR box and additional HD programming. I've not had this stuff for but a month now and do not have the same level of suffering as the rest of the more experienced HDTV-TWCNYC users here.

Thanks everyone for the active forum that is "so close to home".

Living and working in NYC,
- walkman

Having been an RCN customer for 3+ years before recently moving and switching to Time Warner I would say don't go back. RCN has a few additional channels which are nice (ESPN, HDNet, etc), but you have to pay for them - still I would obviously do it. However, given how crappy I found their customer service (you would call to ask them to bring a certain type of box and they would mysteriously have no record of any conversation) and the fact that the company is now bankrupt I would guess that the likelihood of getting new innovative products/services is slim to none. Their HD DVR is the perfect example. Their first DVR just happened to be an HD DVR - sounds great, right? Unfortunately the UI was horrible and everytime I tried to record something in HD it would lock up - I'd try to rewind and it wouldn't stop - you would have to unplug the box. So what's the point? I can't see things getting better.

That being said, it's pretty insane that we don't get ESPN HD on Time Warner. I understand ESPN is expensive, blah, blah but c'mon - HD was made for sports and what better channel to watch it in than ESPN.

Thanks EricScott, that's all I needed to read to confirm that I did not want to go back to RCN. My experience with their cable modem and service was poor, and you have reinforced my lack of confidence.

cinemagotham, nice to read you again. I remember your moniker from the dvb-318 thread, right? I'll let you know what I see.

randymac88: I read on this very thread, and with the great links here for key manuals for the Pioneer Voyager 3510HD that I could not find anywhere (except in this thread, thanks all!) that adjusting the scaling (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) is only do-able if you use a component video connection in lieu of a DVI connection. The DVI connection, and correct me if I'm wrong all, is auto set for 1080i , and the rest will be up to your TV. Again folks, please correct me I'm wrong on the scaling features/connections for the voyager 3510HD.

cheers, - walkman

I don't remember what the problem was with DVI from the 3510 but it prevented me from using Zoom which I find valuable when watching pillarboxed 4:3 material on an HD channel. I use the component for the cable and DVI for the 318 (yup, that's me!)

However, the idea of going S-video for non-HD CADTV intrigues me. I'm really fed up with the soft look of the non-HD channels. I realize that this is probably a TV issue and not a cable issue, but anything that would improve it would be great! Watching Angel or Salem's Lot in Blur-O-Vision (tm) because TWCNYC can't be bothered to get WB or TNT in HD is a drag, especially for $100 smackeroos a month.

Originally posted by walkman666
Thanks EricScott, that's all I needed to read to confirm that I did not want to go back to RCN. My experience with their cable modem and service was poor, and you have reinforced my lack of confidence.


Actually RCN's cable modem has dramatically improved and is now really fast - they claim to offer 5mbps download speeds - but previously I agree it was painfully slow.


randymac88: I read on this very thread, and with the great links here for key manuals for the Pioneer Voyager 3510HD that I could not find anywhere (except in this thread, thanks all!) that adjusting the scaling (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) is only do-able if you use a component video connection in lieu of a DVI connection. The DVI connection, and correct me if I'm wrong all, is auto set for 1080i , and the rest will be up to your TV. Again folks, please correct me I'm wrong on the scaling features/connections for the voyager 3510HD.

cheers, - walkman

No - the DVI connection should pass through the native resolution of each channel - so ABC will be 720p, NBC will be 1080i. Then your set handles the scaling to its native resolution.

I actually spent a fair amount of time the past few days doing some side by side comparisons with two Pioneer 3510's on my new Samsung HLP. I had one box hooked up via DVI and the 2nd box hooked up with component (I tried setting the output format to 720p only to match the native resolution of my set and also tried outputting all of the formats). The results really varied by channel but overall I liked the DVI the best. On the 720p channels, DVI looked incredible. On the 1080i channels it was more of a toss up with Component winning on HBO and Showtime (more vibrant colors) and DVI winning on CBS, NBC and Discovery. It was really tough deciding which was best and I will probably have some other people give me 2nd opinions but I can assure you that DVI outputs the native resolution of each channel (my Samsung displays the signal that is being input).

Originally posted by walkman666
So far, I've learned that tonight I'm going to make a second video connection from my pioneer 3510HD to my new Toshiba 34hFX83 via S-Video to see if I can get improved standard cable reception on my non-HD channels. I may do the same with my second HD connection in the bedroom with my new Zenith C27V36.

I also learned why I cannot adjust the scaling or output -- I use a DVI cable. So, I ordered yet another component cable from Ram Electronics and will try that out, for comparison and for control of the scaling.

With your setup -- two analogue TVs, I suspect that you're going to be best-off avoiding the use of DVI connections to your two STBs, for all sources, but especially analogue SD channels (which will have to go through two harmful format conversions --from analogue to digital and back to analogue if you're using DVI). I'd suggest using component for HD and, perhaps, S-Video for SD.

Thanks Cinemagotham, EricScott and Manatus. Your input is appreciated.

Cinemagotham: I read it elsewhere in this long thread -- some folks found noticeable improvements using the S-Video (or even composite video, hard to believe) on their standard cable channels over/above DVI. So, what the heck, I have an S-Video cable in a box at home, I'll plug it in and see what happens. I may not get to it tonight -- Primus at Radio City beckons.

EricScott: Very cool information you provide with your side by side test, and it's interesting to read that RCN has improved their cable modem rates. If they were not an unviable company (bankrupt?) and did not have the reported problems you state about their HD-recorders, I'd then contemplate making the switch back.

Manatus: I am confused, you say I have two analogue sets. What does that mean? I thought both of my HDTV monitors were digital TVs. Is that not correct? I understand your point about conversions, but -- and I'll admit I'm no technical expert here -- do not understand why those conversions apply to me. Is it because my TVs are CRTs that they are analogue? And if so, why do these two TVs even have DVI connections if they were detract from the image?

Again, these questions are for me to understand (and not to challenge). I seek knowledge.

- walkman

Originally posted by walkman666
Manatus: I am confused, you say I have two analogue sets. What does that mean? I thought both of my HDTV monitors were digital TVs. Is that not correct? I understand your point about conversions, but -- and I'll admit I'm no technical expert here -- do not understand why those conversions apply to me. Is it because my TVs are CRTs that they are analogue? And if so, why do these two TVs even have DVI connections if they were detract from the image?

Walkman --

I majored in English Lit. not Electrical Engineering, but it's my understanding --always subject to correction-- that all CRT TVs are analogue devices -- that's the nature of the beast.

Thanks Manatus. I'm not sure post #1337 is applicable/accurate to me, so I'll take your input and consider going component on both of my new HDTV monitors. I don't think these sets are analogue, the literature all over their manuals, etc. says "digital." Check this link to see the definition of a digital TV (it has nothing to do with the tube):

Digital TVs Defined (http://www.ce.org/about_cea/cea_initiatives/viewInitiativesOverview.asp?title=Transition%20to%20Digital% 20Television&name=269)

Now, I have to admit, I do know more than I what I have led on: my dad was a TV repairman for 25 years. I grew up with TVs everywhere, all over the place, but alas, I did not inherit his mechanical aptitude nor his inclination to want to create, destroy or fix televisions or other apparati. I just learned, through repeated watching of working, broken and "testers" to sit there and watch the darn things. Still, I know enough to be dangerous, and am good at connecting the wires, D'OH!.

Given this, are there still implications for making DVI vs. component connections using the Pioneer Voyager 3510HD and CRT-based HDTV monitors (such as the two I have)?

thx, - walkman

Originally posted by walkman666
Thanks Manatus. I'm not sure post #1337 is applicable/accurate to me, so I'll take your input and consider going component on both of my new HDTV monitors. I don't think these sets are analogue, the literature all over their manuals, etc. says "digital." Check this link to see the definition of a digital TV (it has nothing to do with the tube):

Digital TVs Defined (http://www.ce.org/about_cea/cea_initiatives/viewInitiativesOverview.asp?title=Transition%20to%20Digital% 20Television&name=269)

Now, I have to admit, I do know more than I what I have led on: my dad was a TV repairman for 25 years. I grew up with TVs everywhere, all over the place, but alas, I did not inherit his mechanical aptitude nor his inclination to want to create, destroy or fix televisions or other apparati. I just learned, through repeated watching of working, broken and "testers" to sit there and watch the darn things. Still, I know enough to be dangerous, and am good at connecting the wires, D'OH!.

Given this, are there still implications for making DVI vs. component connections using the Pioneer Voyager 3510HD and CRT-based HDTV monitors (such as the two I have)?

thx, - walkman

I won't belabor the point, Walkman, but CRTs are inherently analogue devices, even when they can accept digital signals and, for advertising purposes, are called "digital televisions." As a respondent in another forum fielding a similar question put it, "DVI will not necessarily bring you better picture quality than component video (analogue connection). Your TV is a CRT-based RPTV that is analogue in it's final stage, so the digital signal does get converted back to analogue, unlike pixel based TVs like LCD, DLP, Plasma, etc." Or, as another authority puts it, "DVI may provide a superior picture when viewed on a fixed pixel display (like LCD, DLP, Plasma, LCoS) since these are digital displays, so the signal remains digital "all the way". CRT-based TVs are analogue, therefore a superior picture is less likely on HD inputs since the D/A conversion must take place somewhere in the chain."

Got it, Manatus. Makes good technical sense. I stand corrected.

thx, - walkman

Cinemagotham. I did in fact get the opportunity to test the S-Video connection on standard cable channels vs. DVI last night. What I found was compelling: Basically, the DVI is a better choice for the High Def channels because I can calibrate settings (color, brightness, etc) and save them for that input separately from any other input. And the picture looks stunning to me. However, these calibration settings for the HD channels on the DVI input do not result in a great picture on the standard channels.

So, using the S-Video as a different input, I calibrated different settings for the standard cable channels and found those settings with the S-Video connection to be superior in pic quality to the DVI-based settings I had calibrated for the HD channels.

My Toshiba allows me to have unique settings for each of the 7 inputs. I realize not all TV sets allow unique settings for each input. So for me, with my Tosh 34HFX83, it makes sense to have two separate lines running from my Pioneer Voyager 3510HD to my television:

1. S-Video, with unique calibration for standard channels
2. DVI, with unique calibration for HD channels

I'll thus use the S-Video input for standard channel viewing and the DVI input for HD channel viewing. [If, of course, there was a way to have separate calibrations within the same input (i.e. "DVI-1" with unique calibrated settings for HD channels and "DVI-2" with unique and different calibrated settings for standard channels), I would do that, but that is not the case.]

I will also try using a component connection instead of the DVI connection as an A-B test to see which I prefer (and to see if having control over the output aspect ratio is value-added...).

- walkman

TWC NYC HDTV Thought of the Day...

Out of a total of 18+ commonly available HDTV channels TWC NYC only has 8. Wow, TWC NYC is the best!!!! Check out the daily HD Channel Lineup of other broadcasters at http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/broad.html

well the good news is they should have room for the missing 10 channels and then some by the end of the year if the rumors are true.

And it will take them 12-14 months after they become available for it to be available for NYC, the slowest market in all of Time Warner Kingdom.

OT, but need some sympathy. I have had an awful experience with TW trying to get cable installed. Took me almost 2 months to get it done. Their system said my apartment did not exist. I must have had 4 appointments to get it done. I asked for a Pioneer HD Box, they installed a SA 3250.

They installed an ancient Toshiba 1100 cable modem. Cable modem seems really slow compared to RCN's service.

And the DVR (SA 8000) is not ready for prime time. Anyone else have problems with the DVR? Seems you can't bypass the recording function. I'm getting a lot of digital artifacts and the picture freezes for a couple of seconds every now and then.

Anyone see the reference to the AVS forum in last Wednesday's New York Times Circuits section? I believe there was some mention of our frustration with HDTV. I wonder if it was a result of me emailing David Pogue a few weeks ago...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/technology/circuits/24hdtv.html

DJ Frustration; you may have missed it, but I had a post about a week ago referencing a front page article in "Broadcasting and Cable" about the bandwidth issues where there was an outright reference to our frustration in the NYC market with the lack of HDTV channels.

Here is the link. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3946076&highlight=Broadcasting#post3946076

It's a great read; and I do think that you're letter had some impact. Thanks

Drew

I currently run the sony hd200 directv box...and now considering switching to timewarner cable.

apparently, i can't get their HD box AND the dvr capability....i have to either get just the cable/dvr or just the cable/dvr box.

my question is can i get their cable/dvr box and use my hd200 to view hd programming?

if not, i'd have to go for their cable/hd box option...and ditch the dvr option.

in addition, the TWC person mentioned that i'd have to get a DVI cable to connect to the tv if i run the cable/hd box. can anyone tell me which DVI cable i need?

any experiences you can share would be greatly appreciated!
- Mitchell

Hey yoomit. It seems you have some accurate and some inaccurate information. I recently went to TWC cable HD from TWC DVR, because, it's true, it's an either/or situation with TWC-NYC right now. You can either have a DVR (Tivo-like) box or you can have a DVR type box -- but you can't have both. TWC says they expect a combined DVR-HD set-top box in "late summer"...Regarding combining a TWC DVR cable box and your existing directTV HD-box, I plain don't know.

I had the DVR and miss it, but would rather have the gorgeous pic from the sparse number of HD channels TWC offers.

Regarding cable connections: One can use either a DVI cable or a component cable to connect the HD cable box (at least the Pioneer 3510HD box I have, and many others here have, too) to your TV. I have tried both connections -- this is 100% fact. What is false is that you must use a DVI cable. It's important for you to note what and how many HD connections you have on your TV. So, that'll be your guide.

If you go with a DVI cable, you can get one at computer stores or audio/video shopos, but make sure it's a DVI-D cable, not a DVI-I cable. I got mine from Ramelectronics.net, makers of good, affordable cables.

- walkman

Do what I did and get both boxes. The DVR is only SD.

walkman, thanks for the info.

and just to reconfirm...i CANNOT connect the cable/DVR box to my SAT-HD200 to view HD programming?

basically, if i go TWC, ONLY their equipment will work for HD...correct?

- Mitchell

Originally posted by yoomit
and just to reconfirm...i CANNOT connect the cable/DVR box to my SAT-HD200 to view HD programming?

basically, if i go TWC, ONLY their equipment will work for HD...correct?

- Mitchell

Mitchell --

It's not clear what you're trying to do here. The only DVR currently offered by TWCNYC is the Scientific Atlanta 8000, and it's not a HD device. If you want to have both a DVR (for SD) and to subscribe to TWC's HD services, you'll need to have and pay for both the 8000 and one of the three HD set-top boxes currently offered by TWCNYC (except in Staten Island). You haven't said why you would want to connect any of the TWC equipment to your Direct TV box.

yoomit, the sony hd200 is only for DirectTV and will not work with TWC. Only equipment from TWCNYC will decode the signal (HD or Digital SD) from TWCNYC.

You need to tell TWC that you have both an HD and non-HD set, but you can have the TWC installation person bring both the HD box and the SD-DVR. They will not "let" you hook them up to the same TV but if you have another TV, or even a friggin microwave that looks like a TV, just tell the installer that you will hook it up on your own.

The issue with the above option is that you would need to switch input sources to switch between the HD and SD boxes. The other issues is that the same remote codes control both boxes. This issue alone has kept me from using this option as I don't have the patience. Plus, I do have the DVR on my bedroom set; just not on my HD set until sometime later in the 4th quarter ;)

Good luck, Drew

Originally posted by drew138
yoomit, the sony hd200 is only for DirectTV and will not work with TWC. Only equipment from TWCNYC will decode the signal (HD or Digital SD) from TWCNYC.

You need to tell TWC that you have both an HD and non-HD set, but you can have the TWC installation person bring both the HD box and the SD-DVR. They will not "let" you hook them up to the same TV but if you have another TV, or even a friggin microwave that looks like a TV, just tell the installer that you will hook it up on your own.

The issue with the above option is that you would need to switch input sources to switch between the HD and SD boxes. The other issues is that the same remote codes control both boxes. This issue alone has kept me from using this option as I don't have the patience. Plus, I do have the DVR on my bedroom set; just not on my HD set until sometime later in the 4th quarter ;)

Good luck, Drew

I actually have the SA8000 DVR and a Pioneer HD3510 HD box both hooked up to the same HDTV (Samsung HLP). The IR conflicts are definitely annoying but not impossible to deal with. I am almost always only watching one source at a time (except when I use PIP) so even if both boxes change channels it's not a big deal - esp. since the DVR has two tuners so recordings won't get messed up if you change the channel (if it's recording something on each tuner, it prompts you if you try to change channels - so you are covered there as well). The only annoyance is if you need to go into the menus to set various options (really just for the HD box) - I've found that the settings on the other box will be changed - so I just get up real close or use the controls on the box in the rare event I need to make any menu changes.

Also I have noticed both of my boxes (in particular the Pioneer) shut off automatically. The DVR reboots every now and then - probably more often that it did before - but I can't imagine this being related to having the two boxes near each other or attached to the same TV. My Pioneer is hooked up to my Samsung via DVI so I thought maybe the Samsung sent a signal to the box when I shut the TV down down to shut down the box - but it doesn't happen all the time and is not predictable.

Originally posted by EricScott
Also I have noticed both of my boxes (in particular the Pioneer) shut off automatically. The DVR reboots every now and then - probably more often that it did before - but I can't imagine this being related to having the two boxes near each other or attached to the same TV. My Pioneer is hooked up to my Samsung via DVI so I thought maybe the Samsung sent a signal to the box when I shut it down to shut down the box - but it doesn't happen all the time and is not predictable.
I've been having the same reboot problem with the Pio 3510HD and my Samsung via DVI since the first day I got it (very annoying when TiVo tapes 10 hours of blank screen).
It is very random, but I do think it has something to do with using the DVI on the 3510. I've gotten it to reboot by switching the TV input from DVI to Component, and even by just unplugging the DVI cable from the back of the box.
Considering the Pio has some other problems via DVI (guide locking up box on 720p HD stations) I'm thinking there are still some bugs in the DVI output.

Originally posted by vlapietra
I've been having the same reboot problem with the Pio 3510HD and my Samsung via DVI since the first day I got it (very annoying when TiVo tapes 10 hours of blank screen).
It is very random, but I do think it has something to do with using the DVI on the 3510. I've gotten it to reboot by switching the TV input from DVI to Component, and even by just unplugging the DVI cable from the back of the box.
Considering the Pio has some other problems via DVI (guide locking up box on 720p HD stations) I'm thinking there are still some bugs in the DVI output.

Interesting. I actually have to 3510's - one is currently hooked up to the Samsung and the other is hooked up to a regular SD TV in the bedroom via composite cables. The one hooked up via DVI is the only one that reboots and I have tried swapping the boxes and each exhibited the same behavior when connected via DVI to the Samsung.

Don't understand the part about getting it reboot by switching the TV input from DVI to Component - are you saying that simply switching off of the DVI input while watching TV causes reboots? Haven't noticed this on mine. Usually the box turns off after I have shut down my Samsung. Most of the time I don't even notice until I go to turn the Samsung on (the next day usually) and see the "No Signal" message. I've even tried setting the Pioneer's power-on timer but that doesn't seem to work consistently.

Have you tried hooking the box up to the Sammy via component? I did briefly to do a side by side comparison to determine if I like the PQ of DVI or Component (outputting 720p only vs. all formats) better - ultimately decided on DVI. But I hadn't left the box connected long enough to notice any reboot behavior. Just out of curiousity, have you done any side-by-side tests? Have you always used DVI?

Any idea why my DVR would reboot more often? That one I'm guessing has nothing to do with the Sammy - it's hooked up directly via S-Video.

Curious to know a little more about what's been happening ot your equipment - lots of questions, sorry.

Originally posted by EricScott
Interesting. I actually have to 3510's - one is currently hooked up to the Samsung and the other is hooked up to a regular SD TV in the bedroom via composite cables. The one hooked up via DVI is the only one that reboots and I have tried swapping the boxes and each exhibited the same behavior when connected via DVI to the Samsung.
I had my first 3510 swapped out after a week b/c of the rebooting problem but the new one I got has the same problem.
Don't understand the part about getting it reboot by switching the TV input from DVI to Component - are you saying that simply switching off of the DVI input while watching TV causes reboots? Haven't noticed this on mine. Usually the box turns off after I have shut down my Samsung. Most of the time I don't even notice until I go to turn the Samsung on (the next day usually) and see the "No Signal" message. I've even tried setting the Pioneer's power-on timer but that doesn't seem to work consistently.
I also usually have the problem after I turn the Samsung off. About 20-30 seconds later the 3510 will reboot. Sometimes. I think it is caused by the 3510 losing it's DVI connection with the TV. I believe that is why it sometimes happens when I switch from DVI to Component on my TV (maybe the Samsung deactivates the DVI somehow?).
Have you tried hooking the box up to the Sammy via component? I did briefly to do a side by side comparison to determine if I like the PQ of DVI or Component (outputting 720p only vs. all formats) better - ultimately decided on DVI. But I hadn't left the box connected long enough to notice any reboot behavior. Just out of curiousity, have you done any side-by-side tests? Have you always used DVI?
Like you I've always used DVI since I did a PQ comparison between it and Component. The last time I used Component was to isolate the box lock-up problem when using the guide on 720p stations via DVI. I actually both a DVI switchbox so I could use both the 3510 and my Bravo D1 without switching the cables. So I'm kind of hesitant to use Component instead, but I might be forced to. :(
Any idea why my DVR would reboot more often? That one I'm guessing has nothing to do with the Sammy - it's hooked up directly via S-Video.

Curious to know a little more about what's been happening ot your equipment - lots of questions, sorry.
Sorry, I haven't tried out the DVR yet so I'm not sure what the problem might be with that one. I'm actually happy to respond to all the questions. I've posted a couple of times in this thread about my reboot problems but no one else seems to have had the problem. I felt alone in the wilderness! :)

Originally posted by vlapietra

I also usually have the problem after I turn the Samsung off. About 20-30 seconds later the 3510 will reboot. Sometimes. I think it is caused by the 3510 losing it's DVI connection with the TV. I believe that is why it sometimes happens when I switch from DVI to Component on my TV (maybe the Samsung deactivates the DVI somehow?).


When your box "reboots" does it turn back on? My box doesn't even turn back on - it just stays off. So when I turn on the Samsung and switch to DVI, I get "No Signal"



Like you I've always used DVI since I did a PQ comparison between it and Component. The last time I used Component was to isolate the box lock-up problem when using the guide on 720p stations via DVI.

So you did do a side by side comparison b/t Component and DVI? I found that HBO and Showtime looked better (brighter colors) via Component but the others seemed crisper via DVI - but not by much. It was a tough call - did you have a similar experience?

Haven't noticed the guid problems on ABC - guess I'll look out for that one. I find the guide is so slow to pop up on HD channels anyway that I rarely use it.

Originally posted by EricScott
When your box "reboots" does it turn back on? My box doesn't even turn back on - it just stays off. So when I turn on the Samsung and switch to DVI, I get "No Signal"
No, it stays off. That's why it is such a big hassle with the TiVo. Nothing but blank screen gets recorded until I notice it.
So you did do a side by side comparison b/t Component and DVI? I found that HBO and Showtime looked better (brighter colors) via Component but the others seemed crisper via DVI.
I didn't do a side-by-side since the 3510 doesn't output Component and DVI at the same time. Best I could do is look at one and then the other, but I thought the picture was sharper via DVI.
Haven't noticed the guid problems on ABC - guess I'll look out for that one. I find the guide is so slow to pop up on HD channels anyway that I rarely use it.
It also happens when I press the Info button (just to find out what I'm actually watching :)). If you set the 3510 to convert everything to 1080i the problem goes away, but that option is only available with Component.

I'm assuming the rebooting is only a problem with the Samsung as no one else seems to be experiencing it.

Originally posted by vlapietra
No, it stays off. That's why it is such a big hassle with the TiVo. Nothing but blank screen gets recorded until I notice it.

I haven't hooked my Tivo up to this box yet for just this reason. I primarily use the DVR anyway but I miss my Tivo for some of the advanced features. The DVR can also be pretty unreliable - it conveniently reboots at like 9pm in the middle of a show and then starts a new recording when it's finished.



I'm assuming the rebooting is only a problem with the Samsung as no one else seems to be experiencing it.

That must be it - otherwise there would be more comments you would think.

I've been trying to get a SA3250 in place of my other Pioneer to see if I have better luck with that one. Also it has an optical audio out instead of only a coax out and I'm out of coax in's on my receiver - right now I am using one of those radio shack coax to optical digital audio converters on the DVR, which doesn't work so great - I have to use composite audio cables as well or I get dropouts. (I used it with the Pioneer and the audio would just not come in pretty much every other time I changed the channel). But I've been unsuccessful - they apparently refuse to give you one if you don't have a firewire in to plug into.

i have an HLN 437 connected to the Pio box via DVI , and yes, the Pio box resets itself randomly - I have not been able to see a pattern of cause and effect. Glad it's not just me with this issue.

Finally, I' ve been having blocking/picture breakup on Ch 706 - Discover HD. Haven't called TWCNYC yet - is it just me, or are others having a problem with this station too? UWS here.

Alright. So that's a grand total of 3 now. :)
Any other Sammy DLP / Pio 3510 DVI users out there? I'd be really interested in hearing if anyone else has this setup but does not have the reboot problem.

Originally posted by vlapietra
Alright. So that's a grand total of 3 now. :)
Any other Sammy DLP / Pio 3510 DVI users out there? I'd be really interested in hearing if anyone else has this setup but does not have the reboot problem.

I actually called Samsung about this problem yesterday and the CSR I spoke to said he had personally handled at least one other call describing the same problem - he didn't recall if it was with a Pioneer STB but the customer was complaining about the box rebooting. He put me on hold and checked with one of his colleagues who had apparently never heard of the problem. Anyway, he said he would check with the head DLP technician and took my name, number and email address. I explained that others experienced the rebooting problem when changing inputs as well. I also pointed out that this appeared to affect HLNs as well as HLPs.

Maybe if we get enough responses in this thread, coupled with a response from Samsung, we can convince TWC to give us SA 3250's instead. I'd be curious to know if anyone here has a Samsung DLP hooked up to a SA 3250 via DVI - if so, are you experiencing rebooting problems?

Eric

fwiw; i use the pio on a rca via dvi and have no re-boot issues. good luck with your quest! Have you guys tried a forum search on Pio HD boxes, DVI, Samsung? I'm sure it's not local to twcnyc.

Drew

This isn't a complaint about TWC but rather a rant about NBC and their pathetic HD coverage. It is unfathomable how NBC can carry the US Open (golf) and Wimbledon (both in the past month) in SD only. I can maybe understand the US Open - I'd imagine the logistics involved in broadcasting a golf tourney in HD are complicated (although CBS seems to manage), but Wimbledon? I mean put a damn camera on center court - that's all I'm asking!! It's really frustrating b/c NBC Sports gets a good share of the best events yet their technology is inferior. I hope they prove me wrong with the Olympics. And I couldn't be happier that they no longer broadcast NFL games.

Sorry for the rant - just very frustrated.

Originally posted by EricScott
This isn't a complaint about TWC but rather a rant about NBC and their pathetic HD coverage. It is unfathomable how NBC can carry the US Open (golf) and Wimbledon (both in the past month) in SD only. I can maybe understand the US Open - I'd imagine the logistics involved in broadcasting a golf tourney in HD are complicated (although CBS seems to manage), but Wimbledon? I mean put a damn camera on center court - that's all I'm asking!! It's really frustrating b/c NBC Sports gets a good share of the best events yet their technology is inferior. I hope they prove me wrong with the Olympics. And I couldn't be happier that they no longer broadcast NFL games.

Sorry for the rant - just very frustrated.

You should look at the HDTV Programming area for discussion on this topic.

But (to my knowledge) NBC doesn't use its own equipment for Wimbeldon broadcasts. It uses the BBC's feed. Until the BBC goes to HD broadcasting of Wimbledon, don't count on seeing it in HD.

Same goes for ABC's coverage of the British Open golf next month.

FYI: A summary of how cable companies are trying to squeeze new HD channels and other services into inefficiently used bandwidth:
http://www.cabledatacomnews.com/jul04/jul04-5.html
--John

I need to get a cable amp for my setup. I have TWC-NYC. I've narrowed down the choice to an Electroline 1 port amp or a Motorola signal booster amp. Anyone have a preference or recommendation?

I called TWC-NYC yesterday to get an update on the HD-DVR. The rep said that the latest info they have is late Fall, probably November. Ugh...

Does anyone else experience a thin row of blurry lines on the top border of channel 705 (Fox Widescreen)? I also notice this on ABC HD when non-HD content is being aired, but for HD shows it's fine. I have a Samsung DLP (720p native resolution) and a Pioneer 3510HD STB hooked up via DVI. All the 1080i channels display fine.

Thanks,
Eric

I see what looks like a vertical line of static down the left-side on ch. 705 when they are broadcasting a 4:3 signal, but not on top.

Originally posted by vlapietra
I see what looks like a vertical line of static down the left-side on ch. 705 when they are broadcasting a 4:3 signal, but not on top.

Static is probably a better description of what I'm seeing as well - it's a thin line across the top of the screen (I think I see it on 480i and 480p shows - def. 480p though). Fox Widescreen doesn't go all the way to the edge of my set anyway so you see the static and above it is a thin black border. And as I mentioned see the same thing on ABC HD with SD content only.

Sounds like the overscan on the TV needs to be adjusted in 480p. You can confirm this by feeding the TV a 480p signal from a DVD player, you should see the same problem.

Originally posted by vlapietra
Sounds like the overscan on the TV needs to be adjusted in 480p. You can confirm this by feeding the TV a 480p signal from a DVD player, you should see the same problem.

That's what I thought but when I turn my DVD to progressive (usually I leave PS off) I don't have the same problem.

Probably covered in earlier posts, but here's a recent summary (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HDTV-in-NYC/message/7031), from an excellent source, of potential 4thQ HDTV adds to TWC's lineup. -- John

Nice read. I hope WPIX-HD is coming back during that time too. I need my METS fix! OTA sucks.

John, thanks for the post, but I don't think it offers any new information. Bob Watson has been claiming that he's been working on deals since February and has yet to deliver. When I visit my brother in Stamford, CT and see how many channels his Comcast lineup has I get sick to my stomach at how much we pay for TWC NYC cable and their terrible HD offering.

At this point, I ignore all communication promising HD-DVR in 3Q, 4Q 2004 and any additional content in 4Q 2004 and beyond. I'll believe these TWC spin-masters when I see the channels on my own TV. As far as I'm concerned Bob Watson is useless.

Who knows...I may have moved to a satellite capable building by then.

Originally posted by tvuser1
I need to get a cable amp for my setup. I have TWC-NYC. I've narrowed down the choice to an Electroline 1 port amp or a Motorola signal booster amp. Anyone have a preference or recommendation?

If you call TWCNYC for service, they will supply a signal booster (Motorola) for no charge. It's the same one they sell at CC. Just tell them you're having picture quality problems. That's how I got my sig booster

What PQ problems would it solve? I have occassional pixellation (much better since I removed a splitter) and general softness on non-HD channels. Would it improve that?

Anyone else experiencing odd behavior with the SA3250HD and DVI ? It seems that the menu and setup options have been disabled on the box. Specifically, holding down the select button while the box is on doesn't do anything and holding down guide and info buttons while the box is off does nothing as well. Additionally, if i turn on the box and it was set to a non hd channel, i get grey bars on the top and bottom of my screen (i have a 4:3 set) and the hd content is cropped on the sides. It also looks as if it's downconverted. If i turn on the box and it was set to a HD channel, everything gets upconverted to 1080i.

anyone know what's going on?

thanks.

Anyone else see the blue fuzz around Clemens during tonight's All Star game? All the other cameras seemed ok

Adam

Originally posted by jaw79
Anyone else experiencing odd behavior with the SA3250HD and DVI ? It seems that the menu and setup options have been disabled on the box.
With another converter for RCN Cable I found that accessing the setup menu is tricky. Holding down one button too long made the converter cycle through the menu setup option so fast it seemed inactive. But a quick tap of the front-panel menu-select button locked in the menu screen. Also, with my RPTV, since YPbPr wouldn't work for SD with the converter's preset 480i (only 480p), I had to connect a video-out cable and set up the menu in an AUX (video in) mode. -- John

5 days and no TWCNYC postings. I guess the perpetual lack of news or information pertaining to Time Warner Cable High Definition services has finally beaten us down. I hope this thread doesn't get deleted so that we can start posting again in the 4th quarter. For what it's worth, we're now officially in the 3rd quarter and still no DVR ;).

Anyone get a cablecard in NYC?

Drew

Sometimes I wish my fiance would start to work for Time Warner so I can get some free cable. She works for Cablevision currently in their call center.

Problem with this is... right when she makes the switch... I will eventually buy a house out in Long Island and i'll be kicking myself. :D

At least Cablevision has some nice HD offerings. :D

I noticed about a week ago, in The New York Times TV listings, that they added in their symbols, HD.

Now, for example, we can see that TNT is showing their "Limited" series, The Grid in HD.

That’s nice.:p



Larry

HD DVR - I spoke to Time Warner about a problem with PPV and asked about an HD DVR. The repair guy claimed that the new box would rolling out by late July, early August. He may have been lying; however, it was good news.

I used to have Tivo and the TWC regular DVR is like going from an Acura to a Pinto.

Originally posted by Digetydog
HD DVR - I spoke to Time Warner about a problem with PPV and asked about an HD DVR. The repair guy claimed that the new box would rolling out by late July, early August. He may have been lying; however, it was good news.

I used to have Tivo and the TWC regular DVR is like going from an Acura to a Pinto.

Not that it surprises me in the least that we would get drastically different answers, but I just called TW and was told that the HD DVR will be out in LATE FALL - that's Oct. / November. So much for Q3.

Just completed install of 3250HD. TWNYC tech had no idea what DVI was, but the connection works fine.

Can anyone suggest any out-of-the-box tweaks I should do?

HD channels seem fine, regular channels - noisy as always.

Set-up: Panasonic 42PHD6, Denon 3805 via coax digital, 3250HD via DVI.

Thanks.

Originally posted by jaw79
Anyone else experiencing odd behavior with the SA3250HD and DVI ? It seems that the menu and setup options have been disabled on the box. Specifically, holding down the select button while the box is on doesn't do anything and holding down guide and info buttons while the box is off does nothing as well. Additionally, if i turn on the box and it was set to a non hd channel, i get grey bars on the top and bottom of my screen (i have a 4:3 set) and the hd content is cropped on the sides. It also looks as if it's downconverted. If i turn on the box and it was set to a HD channel, everything gets upconverted to 1080i.

anyone know what's going on?

thanks.

I just got off the phone with twc tech support regarding the 3250hd. According to them, the DVI on the box shouldn't even work and is no offically supported by twc. Also, the setting/setup menu on the stb is definitely disabled, so there's no going into the thing to fix it. There are also no planned software updated until the 8000hd comes out which, according to the tech, is late christmas.

Late Christmas; as in 2005? ;)

Good luck getting an installation appointment on Dec 25th!

Drew

Originally posted by jaw79
I just got off the phone with twc tech support regarding the 3250hd. According to them, the DVI on the box shouldn't even work and is no offically supported by twc. Also, the setting/setup menu on the stb is definitely disabled, so there's no going into the thing to fix it. There are also no planned software updated until the 8000hd comes out which, according to the tech, is late christmas.


The rep definitely does not know what he/she is talking about (surprised????). I use the 3250 with DVI and don't experience any problems. In fact, I was under the impression that the DVI was the WHOLE REASON that they even support and distribure the 3250 - otherwise its the the old HD box (forget the name)...

Well, DVI obviously works, just not in any way useful. With the setup menu disabled, you can't use pass-thru, upconvert1, or upconvert2. unfortunate. I guess it's back to component for me.

Has anyone noticed that BRAVO channel is now Anamorphic? Meaning, I have to set it to FULL on my television to see it properly? FULL is what my Television automatically switches to in order to watch HD programming, and I also have to set it to FULL it watch Anamorphic DVDs. I was watching some Poker Championship last night, and it wasn't looking right, it was squished, and viola, I set it to FULL and then it looks correct. Is something happening? I know BRAVO has an HD channel, is this the beginning? Or perhaps since they can't send the actual HD stream due to bandwidth, they are at least giving us the correct aspect ratio? Anyone notice this with any of the other channels that we don't have in HD like TNT etc...?

Someone please confirm this, or at least that it will happen soon. While of course I would like to get Bravo and TNT and everything else in HD, if I could just get it in widescreen that would be great. I don't get a bad picture in SD. What I really would love is to get those channels and movie channels like Turner and AMC in widescreen. Is this likely to happen soon? Does in take any extra bandwidth to broadcast in widescreen? Most channels have letterboxing already.

Damn, it's gone now! No more bravo in anamorphic widescreen. I wonder if they were testing something? Strange... very strange. Did anyone else notice this?

well, i noticed that all my channels were wide-screen around 2 AM last night. Then I realized quickly that my box was set to zoom mode. I am the only one who uses my TV and I know I did not change it. I set it back.

seems like twc nyc put up another channel in the 700's - this time its 730 - ABC News Now.....

Yep, thats a great use of the bandwidth they don't have <heavy sarcasm>

Oh...and it's not HD (unless maybe someone else is getting this in HD - wouldn't surprise me).

Paul

Someone should call their bluff in an email to Bob "spin" Watson.

As usual, a remarkably secretive new channel addition (730, ABC News Now). Thanks for the post, penone. Can't tune WABC-DT's weak OTA signal (UHF 45) even though it's <10 blocks from me. Can anyone tune ABC News Now as a OTA subchannel? 730 looks fairly fuzzy for H/DTV. -- John

Originally posted by John Mason
As usual, a remarkably secretive new channel addition (730, ABC News Now). Thanks for the post, penone. Can't tune WABC-DT's weak OTA signal (UHF 45) even though it's <10 blocks from me. Can anyone tune ABC News Now as a OTA subchannel? 730 looks fairly fuzzy for H/DTV. -- John

I'm about 1.4 miles from the Conde Nast Building but have an unobstructed view of its antenna and am receiving Ch. 7-2 (ABC News Now) OTA quitely clearly. Incidentally, I believe that all of the NYC network broadcast stations except Ch. 2 are multicasting in their respective digital spaces but until TWCNYC added 7-2 yesterday as cable channel 730, the only subchannel carried by TWCNYC was 13-2 (cable channel 714). I, for one, consider the arrival of 730 to be good news, and the insignificant bandwidth that it's using says nothing about TWCNYC's overall bandwidth constraints.

This, BTW, is what today's NY Times has to say about the new channel:

For those few who were able and willing to watch Peter Jennings's gavel-to-gavel coverage on ABC's digital channel, the difference was stark. Despite some glaring digital glitches, his suave, steady commentary, mixing generous excerpts from speeches with interviews conducted live from the convention floor, was far more watchable.

Unlike his colleagues, Mr. Jennings actually seemed to be covering a convention. This, however, was a last hurrah: after ABC refused to give the news division more than an hour of prime-time coverage, Mr. Jennings went out on a phantom limb: he insisted on providing old-fashioned convention coverage that was seen by almost nobody. ("ABC News Now" is tucked so high up in the digital cable universe that finding it was a little like seeking Platform 9¾ for the Hogwarts Express.)

A press release issued by TWC yesterday may be of interest to you loyal fans. These are the first two paragraphs:

Time Warner Cable today announced plans to introduce a new option for its Internet, high-speed data customers—Road Runner Premium, which is up to twice as fast as its popular Road Runner core service. Most of Time Warner Cable’s 31 operating divisions will begin offering this new option to Road Runner customers beginning next month.

Road Runner Premium will offer speeds of up to 6 mega-bits per second (Mbps) downstream and 512 kilo-bits per second (kbps) upstream. This compares to the core Road Runner service, which offers speeds of up to 3Mbps downstream and 384kbps upstream. Road Runner is already one of the fastest high-speed Internet connections available through cable and is up to twice as fast as the DSL standard package in most areas.

The full text can be found HERE. (http://www.timewarnercable.com/InvestorRelations/PressReleases/TWCPressReleaseDetail.ashx?PRID=156&MarketID=0) I wonder what, if any, additional burden this development will place upon available HD bandwidth.

Good question!

I wonder what the bottom price will be for this. I'm already paying $120 for road runner, cable, hbo/max/sho/starz plus alllllll those hd channels.

But 6 mbps..............that is sweet!

My thoughts...

When I lived in Charlotte and before they capped the download and upload limits in 2000, I used to get 5Mbps downstream and 768kbps upstream. TWC has had the ability to increase their standard speed levels for a long time now.

Why would I pay an extra $25 for something they should be giving us for our already high price of $49.95? Seems to me that Cable would get an even bigger advantage if they bumped their speeds to 4x DSL's limit of 1.5Mbps. What consumer will notice the difference in an already fast connection of 3Mbps v. 6Mbps? The only offering that will attract subscriber acceptance will have to parallel the move from dial-up to cable/dsl. I don't see this being the catalyst.

The 512 kbps upload is speed is what I am most interested in.

I noticed an interesting problem on my Samsung HLP connected to my Pioneer 3510 via DVI, which I had read about earlier but hadn't been affected by until now.

First a little background - apparently on the Samsung HLPs, there are different picture size options for the DVI input depending on whether the set receives a 1080i signal or a 720p signal. For 1080i, the options are Wide and 4:3 (I have it set to Wide). However for 720p, the options are Wide-PC, Wide-TV, Expand and 4:3 . I had always set the picture mode on a 1080i or SD channel to Wide and never thought to check the setting on a 720p channel. Also I had noticed that on ABC HD or Fox Wide, when a non-HD program was being broadcast (so all the time on Fox) there was some overscan interference on the top of the screen - just on these two channels and it didn't occur during HD broadcasts. Low and behold, when I looked at the picture size setting while on ABC HD it was set to Wide-PC. So I switched it to Wide-TV and the overscan went away, which I was pretty excited about - esp. since I plan to watch quite a bit of Fox during football season.

However, last night I noticed a new problem while watching ABC HD. If I hit the guide or info button the box goes nuts and displays some crazy looking image on the screen. I tried powering the box off a few times (probably didn't wait long enough) and eventually just unplugged it to reset it. Works fine now, but I seem to remember people commenting that they couldn't use the guide on ABC-HD. Not sure what would cause this problem but I was definitely able to use the guide before I switched from Wide-PC to Wide-TV. In any event using the guide on those channels is not important enough to me to switch the setting back, just thought it would be interesting to report this.

Eric

I (and others) have had problems with the box freaking out when using the guide on ABCHD and FOXsoontobetrealHD, the two stations that broadcast in 720p. It didn't happen all the time, but it happened often enough.

I was using component when I had the problem. I don't think I've used the guide on ABCHD or FOX since I've switched to DVI.

Anyway, I think it's a box problem rather than a TV problem. Unless I learn of a fix, I'm not using the guide on those two stations.

Meanwhile did anyone notice the scroll on the bottom of the screen during the Met-Expo game this afternoon on FSN? It said Time Warner Cable has turned down their deal and are threatening to pull FSN and MSG on Sunday. What a drag. If they ever work this out I'm sure MSG-HD and FSN-HD will be added to Time Warners' list of HD stations when the bandwidth issue is worked out. As a matter of fact Bob Watson had said that INHD would carry the HD feeds of Met games once the deal is done.

Interesting about the Road Runner Premium. Personally I have no interest until a (legal) means of permanently downloading HD films comes along.

I wonder if there's any chance that they'll price it where regular RR is now, and drop the price of regular RR to match DSL? Wishful thinking I guess...

As for the bandwidth - AFAIC, if it hurts HD, it's a bad idea.

TM

When I had RCN, cable modem service was at 5Mb/s. It was a lot faster than my service through TW, but you never know if that's just due to more traffic through TW. I do a lot of work from home and log in to my company's network and the difference is significant. I will try it out when it's available.

awesome thread. another AVS member pointed me to this thread.

First of all, I want to comment on the whole analog thing. I have been
using an analog box for over 10 yrs and have not yet upgraded because digital cable
actually costs more (about 7-8 bucks more). There was really no incentive to switch since
the PQ is exactly the same. I know this because I borrowed a digital box and did a A/B compare
on them. This is why lots of people have not switched to digital.
I have a few friends who have been forced to switch to digital. TWCNYC threaten them and told
them they would not have any service if they did not. But I know lots of people who are still
continuing to use analog because they do not want to pay more.
It will be a very long time before they switched everyone to digital.



Anyway, now that I have picked up a plasma (Sony KE37X910), I am finally looking to switch to
an HD cable box and have some questions...

1. If I go to the TimeWarner store (23rd st.) and request specifically for the Pioneer 3510,
will I have any problems geting it?

2. I plan to hook up either component or DVI from the cable box to my plasma AND hook up the
box to my SD tivo via s-video. Would there be any problems with that? Does the Pioneer 3510 have
s-video out?

3. If my cable box is tuned to an HD channel, will my tivo record still be able to record, but in
480? If yes, will it keep the widescreen aspect ratio?

4. I find it worrying reading about the Pioneer 3510 reseting on its own. This would really screw
me up since I rely on my tivo alot. Some people think it might because they are using DVI, if so,
has anyone tried switching to component to see if that resolved the problem? Has anyone have any
reset problems when using component?

Originally posted by timewaster
1. If I go to the TimeWarner store (23rd st.) and request specifically for the Pioneer 3510,
will I have any problems geting it?

No problem. That is how I got mine.
2. I plan to hook up either component or DVI from the cable box to my plasma AND hook up the
box to my SD tivo via s-video. Would there be any problems with that? Does the Pioneer 3510 have
s-video out?
Once again, no problem. This is the way I have mine hooked up.
3. If my cable box is tuned to an HD channel, will my tivo record still be able to record, but in
480? If yes, will it keep the widescreen aspect ratio?

It will still record, but you will lose the aspect ratio (as well as PQ :))
4. I find it worrying reading about the Pioneer 3510 reseting on its own. This would really screw
me up since I rely on my tivo alot. Some people think it might because they are using DVI, if so,
has anyone tried switching to component to see if that resolved the problem? Has anyone have any
reset problems when using component?
I have the reset problem, but I am connected via DVI. I did some quick testing with component and couldn't reproduce the problem. But I went back to DVI b/c I don't have any quality component cables right now. Granted, I didn't test it a whole lot.

Originally posted by timewaster

1. If I go to the TimeWarner store (23rd st.) and request specifically for the Pioneer 3510,
will I have any problems geting it?



You may have to schedule an appointment to have the box initially installed. I know that Time Warner insisted on sending someone over to hook a box up to an additional tv in my house (already have 2 boxes hooked up elsewhere), so if you are getting your first box they will probably have to come out. You can go into the 23rd st. store to switch an existing box for a different box but I don't think they let you just walk out with a box without bringing one in (at least not for HD - since it is "harder" to connect). I could be wrong but that's my experience.

However I did manage to waive the installation fee on the additional box as I explained that I did not need help hooking it up and was being inconvenienced by having to meet the technician.

I have a new plasma coming today, and I'm weighing the HD options. Right now I'm pretty addicted to the DVR. Do I wait for the HDDVR or do I go HD now?

Originally posted by stencil
I have a new plasma coming today, and I'm weighing the HD options. Right now I'm pretty addicted to the DVR. Do I wait for the HDDVR or do I go HD now?

Don't hold your breath for the HD-DVR. I was in the same boat back in January when I went HD. Do I wait for the HD-DVR (promised 1rst quarter) or do I just get the HD box now and hold onto the DVR as well. I have had 2 boxes now for 7 months.

Okay, I realize this is more of a programming issue than a hardware, but it's TWCNYC.

Unfortunately, I was born a Mets fan. Can't live and breathe without them. So now apparently contract talks are a mess between Cablevision and TWC over MSG and FSNY, and we're going to lose them. No more Mets during the week (unless you - gasp - go to Flushing). WTF!!! Get yer s@%* together!

Regardless, bandwidth issues aside, does anyone know if they've been including the HD brethren of these two channels in the contractual discussions? I would love to believe that they would be including MSG HD and FSNY HD in the new service package, but it would just be *so* TWC to NOT include them for unknown reasons. Thoughts?

i'm pretty sure that MSG and FSNY were both mentioned by TWC as future HD channels in their lineup when bandwidth permits.

If WCBS-DT still has its new subchannel, wonder if that's reduced the 1080i bitrate being delivered to TWC? Throught CBS pipes the HD to TWC via fiber or cable. Problems is, according to a Fox TV engineer (foxeng) recently, once a station begins multicasting it requires a separate encoder (~$40K) to pipe the original full (non-multicast) HDTV bitrate separately to cable head ends. He indicated broadcasters or cable firms didn't want to make the investments. -- John

Originally posted by EricScott
You may have to schedule an appointment to have the box initially installed. I know that Time Warner insisted on sending someone over to hook a box up to an additional tv in my house (already have 2 boxes hooked up elsewhere), so if you are getting your first box they will probably have to come out. You can go into the 23rd st. store to switch an existing box for a different box but I don't think they let you just walk out with a box without bringing one in (at least not for HD - since it is "harder" to connect). I could be wrong but that's my experience.

However I did manage to waive the installation fee on the additional box as I explained that I did not need help hooking it up and was being inconvenienced by having to meet the technician.

I'm planning to trade in my old analog box for an HD box, so I'm not going in empty handed. Do I need to show any proof that I have an HDTV in order to get an HD box?

You shouldn't need to show any proof. To save time you should call first, and they will check if they have the box you want at the center you are going to, and get a lot of the paperwork out of the way for you on the phone. I did this and then exchanged my box at the TWC center in Flushing.

Adam

Adam,

Somewhere in this thread were reports from people saying that they'd been told on the phone that the box they wanted was not in stock, but upon showing up they magically appeared...

TM

PS - with all the thread action you'd think we'd gotten some new HD channels ;)

I'd bring a reciept or a manual for the HDTV.

So they finally did it and pulled the plug on MSG and FSN.
I hope Bloomberg gets involved since he's a Met fan.

TWCNYC is gonna get a nasty phone call from me later on today. I think it may be time to finally switch to RCN. More HD channels. I wonder if they have the HD-DVR in Queens now.

Just picked up a 3250HD at the 23rd st. office - they have no more Pioneer boxes at all.

MSG, Fox Sports and the Metro Channel, all analog channels? Maybe that is what Bob Watson was refering to in his message about more bandwidth becoming available.

Seriously, how childish are these guys.....

http://www3.twcnyc.com/NASApp/CS/ContentServer?pagename=twcnyc/aboutus&mysect=aboutus/cablevision

Maybe we'll get some more HD channels during this temporary outage. ;)

Drew

Oh if only RCN had a Hi-Def DVR. I would have switched yesterday.

I'm also disappointed with the TWC-NYC's HD line-up, lack of a HD-DVR STB and now the lack of MSG, Metro Sports and Fox Sports. I sent them the following email, and here is the reply (which appears form-letter-ish):

EMAIL SENT:
Hi, I have voice a concern I have over the programming provided by TWC-NYC. My concerns are three-fold:

1. TWC-NYC has a very slim HDTV listings, compared to local RCN and compared to TWC services elsewhere in the nation. Enough about insufficient bandwidth and 3Q04/4Q04 expectations -- deliver. Otherwise, I move to RCN. How a bankrupt competitor can have better programming boggles my mind. I want to stay with TWC-NYC, please help retain your customers by providing at least comparable (and maybe even superior?) High Definition programming as your local rivals.

2. TWC-NYC is very slow in making available an HD-DVR combined cable box. Other regions have this STB. Again, TWC-NYC is behind the competition. This is no way to win new customers or retain customers. If market share and customer satisfaction are important, you'll deliver on these products soon.

3. TWC-NYC has recently been unable to figure out a way to continue to provide 3 networks to their customers: MSG, Metro and Fox Sports. Instead, TWC-NYC has blamed the problem on Cablevision. In my view, it takes two to tango, and this is both TWC's and Cablevision's fault. However, TWC is my cable provider, not Cablevision, so I look to those who sell me my service to figure out a way to work this out for their customers. Instead, I see blame everywhere, here, on my TV, and in the newspapers. Blame and $2 per month is not going to give me my knicks and rangers games. Figure it out. Take the high road, negotiate a deal. This is big business. Where I work (JPMorgan Chase), your excuses would be laudable.

I appreciate not only a reply, but actually some delivery of the products and services that your competition delivers.

thank you

E-MAIL REPLY FROM TWC-NYC:

Thank you for your recent inquiry about MSG, Fox Sports NY and Metro
Channels. We'd like to take a moment to respond to your concern
regarding our recent programming changes.

Time Warner Cable did not voluntarily remove MSG, Fox Sports and Metro
Channels from its lineup. These networks are owned by Cablevision, and
our current contract to carry these networks expired July 31st.

We offered to keep carrying those channels under the current terms
until a new contract was agreed upon. However, Cablevision prohibited us
from carrying these channels as of midnight, Saturday, July 31st.
Despite our ongoing efforts to discuss several counterproposals,
Cablevision has been resistant. We've presented ideas to try to find a
middle ground to keep customer rates unchanged, but unfortunately,
Cablevision continues to demand unreasonable rates without regard for New York
sports fans.
We are doing everything we can to resolve this issue. We don't believe
our customers should be punished with high rates because Cablevision is
continuing to demand unreasonable rates.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. We will offer our
customers a rebate of $2 per month until the dispute is settled.
Customers will see a full credit on their bill when the issue has been
resolved.

Please note that most weekend games featuring the METS can be seen on
Channel 11. In fact, about one third of the remaining games can be seen
on either Channel 11 or Channel 5. Visit www.wpix.com for more
information.

Please stay tuned to our Weather Channel (channel 72) or TV Guide
Channel (channel 51) for the latest messages which will appear periodically
as a crawl on the bottom of the screen.

We're rooting for you and hope to resolve this issue soon. Thanks for
your patience and understanding.

We are making a continuous effort to bring additional HDTV channels to
our customers.

Time Warner Cable is currently negotiating a contract with ESPN HD
however at this time we cannot provide any further information.

The new HD DVR converter is tentatively scheduled for release in late
2004.

Please refer to our website @ www.twcnyc.com for any future plans,
services and news updates.

If you have any further questions, please contact us at
support@twcnyc.com or call our 24 hour Customer Support XPRESSLINE at
212-674-9100 or 718-358-0900.


Sincerely,

Time Warner Cable of New York and New Jersey
Customer Support

- walkman

More boilerplate. *yawn*

Originally posted by stencil
Just picked up a 3250HD at the 23rd st. office - they have no more Pioneer boxes at all.

How is the 3250HD compared to the Pioneer?
Does it have all the same features as the Pioneer?

Is there any way to make our feelings felt higher than the TWCNYC office? I feel that this office gets special treatment with the national office because its NYC.

TWC Charlotte has deployed HD-DVR. Check out feedback here...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128876&perpage=20&pagenumber=61

Way to be so cutting edge TWCNYC!! You guys absolutely suck.

Frustration:

The SA8000HD DVR has been available in some other TWC areas since the first of this year (Charlotte is one of them). The first generation of these boxes used SA firmware, which is not compatible with TWCNYC's Pioneer environment. The first SA8000HDs with Pioneer firmware are now being distributed in some other TWC areas. The lack of Pioneer-compatible boxes was one of the reasons for the box's delayed introduction here. As I recall it, another was the need for TWCNYC to make some system hardware upgrades.

You'll find an exhaustive -- nauseatingly exhaustive-- discussion of TWC and the SA8000HD HERE. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352604) To put it mildly, this thing is not trouble-free.

Nice job walkman. But did you mean laughable? Not laudable...

TM

I spoke with Bob Watson on the phone a couple of months ago, and among other things he told me that there were a few HD channels (INHD1/2, TNT-HD) that were ready to go on the air from a contractual standpoint, and that the only thing standing in the way was the lack of bandwidth. I specifically asked him if they were in the process of removing analog channels (either outright or switching them to digital), and he said yes.

I'm tempted to drop him an e-mail telling him that I expect either those HD channels added or the return of FSNY/MSG by close of business today. As long as those channels are off the air, I don't want to hear bandwidth excuses...
-JMP

Thanks Manatus. I've read it and know about the problems. I got frustrated when I stumbled on the Charlotte forum (where I used to live until this Feb.) and discovered that they already have the SA 8000's.

Combine the lack of HD-DVR and removal of FSNY/MSG and you get pretty ticked off customers. Seriously, isn't there anything this community can do?

I think it's pretty safe to say that the removal of FSNY, MSG and Metro have exactly zero to do with removing analog channels for the purposes of freeing up bandwidth for HD.

TM

I'm not suggesting that FSN, MSG, and Metro were taken off the air for the purpose of removing analog channels to free up bandwidth, but now that they're off the air, the bandwidth should be available.

Personally, I don't see any reason for these channels to take up analog bandwidth anyway. As a Mets fan with an HDTV, I'd rather see them switched to digital, in the process freeing up the space to carry the HD versions of MSG and FSN, not to mention a few other HD channels.

If one of TWC's non-negotiable points is that they want these channels changed to digital anyway, then there's no reason to hold the bandwidth for them...
-JMP

The whole thing is laudable if you ask me...

Thanks anthonymoody, yes, I meant laughable. I gotta get my vocabulary checked. And more/better HD service!

- walkman

JMP,

If you believe public statements from TWC about the removal of these channels, then they're endeavoring to get them back up and running. As a result, I wouldn't expect them to replace them with anything, let alone more HD. Presumably, at *some* point (months?) if and when it seems 100% over and done with - i.e. there's no way those channels are coming back, then sure, maybe they turn their sights to adding other content, HD included. But if I'm a bettin man I don't think it gets that far.

TM

Yeah. wait till the Knick season starts.
Then they will really get alot of noise from their customers.

Exactly. There's some precedent for an extended outage (see: YES on Cablevision), but my guess is that's not what will happen here. We'll see!

TM

OK, I no longer want the SA 8000 HD DVR.

I want this instead; http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/archives/000406.php

it's pioneer so it should work on our network, right!!!

Drew

Dual FW outputs. WOW. Nice spot Drew.

Me want.

TM

hello everyone -

I am planning to upgrade to HDTV with TWC in NYC.

Can you tell me which is the best cable box? Pioneer or SA?

Also, whoever owns a plasma display - does the DVI connection work with one or both of those boxes?

Thanks!

greetings

here's a question--does TWC scramble their HD locals? LG has 2 STBswith QAM tuners & OTA ATSC. models LST-3100 & 3510(this also has a 1080i DVD player). if the locals are clear you should get them with this box. i recall that one of the HT mags tested a hi-end Mitsu HDTV with a QAM tuner & they got networks in HD with a direct cable feed. and this was in NYC. your thoughts?

jim

Mullet, you'll want the Pioneer box as it has the DVI active. The older SA boxes do not have DVI. I'm not sure if TWCNYC is using any other boxes for HD right now. I've heard that they are using some other box with a firewire output but I don't know if that box has DVI. Just make sure you tell them that you need a DVI connection.

HDntheCity, i am pretty sure the HD locals are not scrambled. If you have an HDTV with a QAM tuner you should be able to pick the HD locals with no problem. I remember reading a review of the RCA DLP with a QAM tuner and the reviewer noted that it picked up all the HD channels direct from the cable (i.e., no box). I noted at the time that the reviewed was in NYC.

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
Mullet, you'll want the Pioneer box as it has the DVI active. The older SA boxes do not have DVI. I'm not sure if TWCNYC is using any other boxes for HD right now. I've heard that they are using some other box with a firewire output but I don't know if that box has DVI. Just make sure you tell them that you need a DVI connection.

Some other forum member has metioned he was given the SA 3250 recently. Anyone have any experience with this box? Does it have any problems? Is it any good?

HDntheCity, i am pretty sure the HD locals are not scrambled. If you have an HDTV with a QAM tuner you should be able to pick the HD locals with no problem. I remember reading a review of the RCA DLP with a QAM tuner and the reviewer noted that it picked up all the HD channels direct from the cable (i.e., no box). I noted at the time that the reviewed was in NYC.

I had the same question. Does anybody know which channels to tune in to pick up the local HDTV TWCNYC channels? My plasma has a built in HDTV tuner and I live in manhattan. I tried searching thru all the channels once and did not find any HDTV channels.
Drew

Originally posted by drew138
Mullet, you'll want the Pioneer box as it has the DVI active. The older SA boxes do not have DVI. I'm not sure if TWCNYC is using any other boxes for HD right now. I've heard that they are using some other box with a firewire output but I don't know if that box has DVI. Just make sure you tell them that you need a DVI connection.

Drew

The box with the firewire out is the SA 3250. It also has a DVI out and is supposed to be "better" than the Pioneer in terms of output options, etc. However in order to get this box you need to have a firewire in of some sort - either on your TV or on D-VHS or they won't leave the box with you. Although, someone did report that they got the 3250 from one of the TWC stores and that they were out of the Pioneer, so who knows, maybe now you can just walk into TWC and get the 3250.

I have been pleased with my Pioneer 3510, other than the fact that it constantly turns itself off when connected via DVI to my Samsung HLP - have yet to figure out a consistent pattern/behavior but I do believe this is related to the box/tv handshake as I have another 3510 hooked up to a regular 480i tv and it never shuts off.

Does anyone know if tonight's Redskins/Broncos pre-season game on ABC is going to be in HD? Checked their site and it shows "ETV" - I sure hope so. I've been chomping at the bit since I got my Samsung a couple of months ago to watch some HD sports!!

Supposed to be in HD. Check out the HD programming forum.

So I guess the SA3250HD is the best box to get from TWC in NYC ? Is it that much better than the Pioneer ?

If you have a 16:9 television, then yes, the SA3250 is great.

If you have a 4:3 tv, then be warned that the setttings menu has been disabled by twc and you won't be able to get passthru, upconvert1, or upcovert2. I've noticed that it will default to whatever output it is receiving when the box is turned on. So if you turn the box on and the channel is HD, then all content, SD and HD, will be upconverted to 1080i. If you turn the box on and the channel is SD, then SD content is displayed in SD and HD content get munged into this half-backed-quasi cropped aspect ratio and I'm not sure if it's 720p or 1080i.

I have a 16:9. I ordered both the Pioneer and the SA3250, one for each of my two TV's. The guy from TWC told me they weren't sure which box they would bring. Hopefully they bring me one of each as I want to try them out and see which was best. I'll put the best on my DLP thats coming in and the other on my Sony 65WV600. Both have to be an improvement on the SA3100HD boxes that I have.

Has anyone been able to confirm that if you have an HD tuner, you can just plug in the cable to receive the local HD channels?
i.e. - HD local channels from TWCNYC are not scrambled.
If so, please list the channel number that you tuned to.

Jaw: I have the 3250 with a 16x9 television, so I haven't seen what you're talking about.

However, I have noticed a couple strange behavioral things with the aspect ratio occasionally bugging out. An especially annoying thing is that it assumes all HD channels are 16x9, so it throw up BLACK sidecolumns to fill the screen. Not that big of a deal, but with a new set, burn-in becomes a concern for me.

What if you don't have an HD tuner in your set? Is there any way I'll ever get the local stations in HD through the cable box?

Be careful about the DVI if you have a plasma. Check out the plasma forum on this site. There are certain models of plasma that are incompatible with the DVI port on the 3510. I know my Pioneer 503CMX with a 5002 interface card will not work with the cable box through DVI. I think it has to do with the plasma being 720p native or something along those lines. I have to use component.

Check with the plasma guys to be sure though.

I just checked out the RCN website again. They are adding more service to their network. Chicago is now getting VoIP capability. They are upgrading everyone that has Megamodem Mach5 to Mach7 and anyone that had Mach3 to Mach5. And they also said in their press releases that DVR will be available in EVERY RCN market come Oct 1st.

Thats pretty sad that a near bankrupt company is kicking Time Warner's ass.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
I just checked out the RCN website again. They are adding more service to their network.
I was surprised when RCN tossed in Cinemax HD along with the anticipated Starz! HD a few months back. Neither run that much original 1080i, but it's nice to have it available. Now if TWC or RCN would also splice in TNT-HD by this Thursday for the PGA championship golf match, which CBS HD will handle this weekend. -- John

You will not get the HD locals on TWC if you have an HDTV Tuner. Your HDTV must have a QAM Tuner. This is what the Cable TV companies use to encode their signal.

See this link: http://www.dlptvshowcase.com/dlptv/rca_dlp_tv.html and you will see in the third row of the table a description of the ATSC Tuner with QAM.

If you have an HDTV and an HDTV converter from TWC, and a digital cable package, you will get the HD locals at no additional charge.

Drew

PS: I can't believe that RCN has all of those channels. I guess the good news is that we're closing in on the 4th quarter where all of our TWC HDTV dream will come true! ;)

Thanks for the input guys. I'll let you know how it goes next week!

thanx for the reply drew.
i have read that the LG 3100 is being discontinued & should be dropping in price. so far i've found it for less than $300. could be a way to finally get WNET-HD!!! this box's ATSC tuner is supposewd to be exceptional so WPIX-HD might be gotten too!!
one (actually several) words of caution about TWC's signal-neglected infrastructure.
my RoadRunner "self install" turned into 3 visits by 3 different techs to at last get a signal the modem could lock!!! to their credit TWC got it to work & didn't charge me but it makes me wonder about the quality of their cable signal. anyone out there have similar experiences?
also i seem to have inadvertently caused some confusion re digital tuners.
ATSC--over the air tuner. QAM--digital cable tuner. the LG box i mentioned has both. i should again emphasize that an outboard or built in QAM tuner will only tune UNscrambled cable channels. with one you could get HD locals without a cable box but NOT DiscoveryHD(which is why i originally asked if TWC scrambles their HD locals-& i hope they don't get any ideas now!!). thanx to all, this thread gives excellent info.

jim

I can confirm that the LG 3100A will receive the following UNSCRAMBLED HDTV channels on TWC:

103-2 FOX
104-1 NBC
104-2 ABC
105-1 CBS
105-2 PBS
129-35 Discovery-HD

Originally posted by oprig
I can confirm that the LG 3100A will receive the following UNSCRAMBLED HDTV channels on TWC:

103-2 FOX
104-1 NBC
104-2 ABC
105-1 CBS
105-2 PBS
129-35 Discovery-HD

Cool. I didnt know this.
Where can I pick one of these up?
Do they sell them at a B&M store?

Originally posted by HDntheCity
my RoadRunner "self install" turned into 3 visits by 3 different techs to at last get a signal the modem could lock!!! to their credit TWC got it to work & didn't charge me but it makes me wonder about the quality of their cable signal. anyone out there have similar experiences?


When I moved into my apartment in March 2003, TWC came to do the installation. I was getting 1 HDTV box, 2 DTV boxes, and 1 cable modem. It took 8 service calls over the course of a month to get everything working, including a complete rerun of every inch of cable in the apartment, as well as being in the unfortunate position of being the one who discovered the problems with the bad batch of 3100s. Other hilights of the 8 service calls were the two guys who identified that a rerun needed to be done, but said their union wouldn't allow it, followed by the guy who was supposed to do the rerun but wouldn't because he showed up at the end of his shift, followed by TWC sending the same two guys who wouldn't do a rerun. That is, it wasn't until the third appointment after they identified that a rerun should be done that they actually reran a single inch of cable.

I still have signal strength problems every so often, and I'm in a building where TWC did a complete upgrade of the wiring within the building. I'd hate to imagine what it was like before.

I'm in the process of trying to convince my building to let the exclusivity deal with TWC lapse, and allow DirecTV to install a dish on the roof to be shared by whoever wants in. I'm not hopeful, but it's probably my best chance of being able to get ESPN-HD, MSG, or FSNY...
-JMP

Originally posted by jmp_nyc
I'm in the process of trying to convince my building to let the exclusivity deal with TWC lapse, and allow DirecTV to install a dish on the roof to be shared by whoever wants in. I'm not hopeful, but it's probably my best chance of being able to get ESPN-HD, MSG, or FSNY...

Classic multiple-visits bungling with TWC. Recently RCN's customer service had to send a tech around just to confirm I wasn't getting guide-page information for some new HD premium channels. He called the NYC head end, which customer service could have done just as well. Over a month later there's still no guide-page info for these channels, despite cold converter reboots.

Thought of pushing for satellite distribution from time to time in my building, too. Of course, just when you've convinced management to spend tens of thousands, TWC would likely announce upgrades that match D* and E* satellite HD coverage. Wouldn't mind having VOOM instead of other DBS services, though. I've phoned them a few times, but haven't gotten anything positive on multiple-dwelling programs yet. Looks like it will be a while before TWC, RCN, or Cablevision approach VOOM's HD lineup. -- John

Originally posted by timewaster
Cool. I didnt know this.
Where can I pick one of these up?
Do they sell them at a B&M store?

I did see LG 3100A at J&R a long while ago -- however comments have been made in other forums that this box is discontinued and that a replacement is coming soon.

I'd imagine that any HDTV tuner that could tune unscrambled QAM channels would pick up the HDTV locals on TWCNYC -- anyone using a different (i.e. non LG 3100A) tuner able to confirm this?

Maybe we should start sending Bob Watson early christmas cards to remind him that the 4th quarter is almost upon us :D

TM

again thanx for the replies everyone.
the LG 3100a is still on j&r's website with on instore rebate offer. swing by & check it out. timewaster if you're mainly interested in the QAM tuner why wait for the new model? as i understand it only the OTA tuner section is getting an upgrade & the price on the 3100 will only go down.
i appreciate how lucky i am to have such a cool landlord-he let me put a D* dish on the roof just for me. one of my neighbors has E*.
now ANOTHER loaded ?--any word(rumor) that TWC could be adding WPIX-DT? the WB is going to be offering much more HD this fall so it seems like a logical move(ok i know i'm talking about TWC but still...). if TWC DOES add WB-HD & i still have OTA issues that 3100 is gonna be looking better & better. thanx to all.

jim

I think this was alluded to earlier in this thread, but I just wanted to confirm that you can now walk into TWC's 23rd st. office and pick up a Sci. Atlanta 3250 HD. I just swapped one of my Pioneer 3510's for it (figure I will decide which one I prefer and use the other on my SD TV).

The 3250 has a bunch of output options - DVI and Component video (also S-Video, composite and coax); coaxial AND optical digital audio (which is really nice b/c I've been using this annoying coax to optical converter since I ran out of coax in's on my receiver).

My box, however, did not have firewire in's or out's on the back (but I don't need firewire). On the front of the box there is a single USB connector.

Originally posted by EricScott
I think this was alluded to earlier in this thread, but I just wanted to confirm that you can now walk into TWC's 23rd st. office and pick up a Sci. Atlanta 3250 HD. I just swapped one of my Pioneer 3510's for it (figure I will decide which one I prefer and use the other on my SD TV).

The 3250 has a bunch of output options - DVI and Component video (also S-Video, composite and coax); coaxial AND optical digital audio (which is really nice b/c I've been using this annoying coax to optical converter since I ran out of coax in's on my receiver).

My box, however, did not have firewire in's or out's on the back (but I don't need firewire). On the front of the box there is a single USB connector.

How is the 3250 compared to the pioneer?
Does it have all the features of the pioneer - i.e. setting the aspect ratio, setting it to upconvert etc.
How is the upconversion. I remember reading that the pioneer has a very good scaler (farjouma ). Does the 3250 use the same chip?

Originally posted by timewaster
How is the 3250 compared to the pioneer?
Does it have all the features of the pioneer - i.e. setting the aspect ratio, setting it to upconvert etc.
How is the upconversion. I remember reading that the pioneer has a very good scaler (farjouma ). Does the 3250 use the same chip?

Picked it up on the way to work this morning. Plan to fiddle with it later and will post a review. It appears that the 3250 has more options with respect to aspect ratios etc than the Pioneer. For my Pioneer I was using DVI so it automatically output each channel as is (except 480i was deinterlaced to 480p of course) so not sure I will be able to compare upconversion. I let my Samsung handle that.

Also, thought the Faroudja chip was for 3:2 pulldown for film? I know my Samsung has it but it only works for 480i DVD content. Not sure if the Pioneer has it or if the SA has it.

I assume you're going to be using DVI from the SA3250. I'd be interested to know if this swaps solves the rebooting problem we have with the Pio box. That alone would be enough for me to make the switch.

Originally posted by vlapietra
I assume you're going to be using DVI from the SA3250. I'd be interested to know if this swaps solves the rebooting problem we have with the Pio box. That alone would be enough for me to make the switch.

That is the primary reason for the switch. In addition the optical digital output is a plus for me. I don't really care too much about the output options since I just leave everything as is through DVI and let the Sammy do the work (who knows maybe 720p only on the SA will look better, but I doubt it).

Vlapietra, I will definitely let you know about the reboot problem. It may take a while to diagnose, b/c as you know the problem is pretty sporadic.

Another plus to the SA 3250 is the much smaller footprint - the box is really small (probably half the size of the pioneer).

When using the DVI connection on the 3250, is it possible to change the output from 1080i to say 720p? It seems that it always converts the signal to 1080i regardless of the format that the station is broadcast in.

Originally posted by PedroBlanco
When using the DVI connection on the 3250, is it possible to change the output from 1080i to say 720p? It seems that it always converts the signal to 1080i regardless of the format that the station is broadcast in.

I will let you know. In looking at the little setup guide they provide, it is unclear which options are disabled when using DVI (at the front of the guide, they say if you are using DVI a number of the options don't apply). On my Pioneer, you could not have the box output 720p on a 1080i channel (and vice versa) - the TV would have to make the conversion.

In case anyone was wondering what the USB port was on the front of the SA boxes....

http://www.sciatl.com/products/customers/prod_sub_IR-Extender.htm

Does anyone know if these work on the SA3250?

I would love to get the unsightly cablebox out of view.


Drew

Another reason why I don't want the SA HD8000 DVR

http://www.sciatl.com/customers/Source/7004920.pdf

;-)

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
Another reason why I don't want the SA HD8000 DVR

http://www.sciatl.com/customers/Source/7004920.pdf

;-)

Drew

Yeah that's sick! Don't hold your breath. I think we will see 40 or 50 HD channels b/f we see that badboy (in other words, never)

Well I got two SA3250HD boxes early today. I was told that they had to bring them and install them. The guy who came said he had to first determine my need for the boxes by making sure I had HD ready TV's, that all, not a firewire connection. As a matter of fact they don't even support the firewire connection.

The boxes are an improvement. I had the SA3100HD. The cable guy told me that these are much better than the Pioneer boxes and he has these on his personal setup at home. He said that TWC has an aggreement with Pioneer and the SA3250's are in short supply. Anyway the HD is much improved no more green vail over my HD. The regular channels were improved a little too. The only bad thing is changing channels which is quite a bit slower than with the 3100HD. I may just put my regular channels on S-Video and use another input for my HD channels. I think the slowness comes from the box fighting the TV my 65WV600 for aspect ratio control, because on the component inputs my TV locks in full, but the box tries to have it do otherwise.

I have all this going into my component input. Should I get a DVI cable and connect the box up with that ? Will DVI improve things even more on my Sony 65WV600 ?

Originally posted by Mixdoctor

I have all this going into my component input. Should I get a DVI cable and connect the box up with that ? Will DVI improve things even more on my Sony 65WV600 ?

Not that familiar with the sony models - is that a CRT or an LCD RPTV? If it's an LCD or any other fixed pixel display for that matter DVI should offer an improvement - the entire path with be digital - no D/A and A/D conversions. If your display is a CRT then it will need to do a D/A conversion anyway so the results may not be any different.

I picked up my 3250 today (traded in a pioneer) - haven't tried it out yet (still at work) - but wasn't told anything about having someone come over and install it. Did you trade in 2 3100's for 2 3250's or did you go from 1 to 2 boxes - if you did it would make sense that they would need to come over.

Originally posted by EricScott
I will let you know. In looking at the little setup guide they provide, it is unclear which options are disabled when using DVI (at the front of the guide, they say if you are using DVI a number of the options don't apply). On my Pioneer, you could not have the box output 720p on a 1080i channel (and vice versa) - the TV would have to make the conversion.

I noticed the same thing about the Pioneer. Let me know if you figure anything out.

Originally posted by EricScott
Not that familiar with the sony models - is that a CRT or an LCD RPTV? If it's an LCD or any other fixed pixel display for that matter DVI should offer an improvement - the entire path with be digital - no D/A and A/D conversions. If your display is a CRT then it will need to do a D/A conversion anyway so the results may not be any different.

I picked up my 3250 today (traded in a pioneer) - haven't tried it out yet (still at work) - but wasn't told anything about having someone come over and install it. Did you trade in 2 3100's for 2 3250's or did you go from 1 to 2 boxes - if you did it would make sense that they would need to come over.

The 65WV600 is a CRT RP. What improvement a DVI connection will make I don't know.

I went from two 3100HD's to two 3250HD's. I haven't hooked up the 3250 that will go to my Pioneer 533HD (CRT) that TV doesn't have a DVI connection so my only option is to use component.

Anyone else use the 3250 ? Do you think it's slow changing channels ?

As of 6pm tonight, MSG and Fox Sports New York are back on the air in their old places, as Time Warner and Cablevision reached a tentative agreement to return them to the air.

In a related development of interest to those reading this thread, Metro was moved from channel 70 (analog) to channel 150 (digital). Now, I'm sure that Cablevision wouldn't want this channel moved from analog space unless they're getting something in return. Anyone want to speculate what they're getting? Could it be to make room for MSG-HD and FSNY-HD? Is it Q4 yet?
-JMP

Ok, so I just got home and hooked up my SA 3250 to my Samsung HLP via DVI. The setup guide that Time Warner gave me said I should do two things with to the box before using it:

1) With the box on, hit the hold the Select key until the message light blinks and then set the various output formats that your tv can support.

2) With the box off (and TV on), hold Guide anf Info on the box to run the setup wizard.

For whatever reason, neither of these procedures works at all for me. When I hold Select in #1, the message indicator never blinks and when I try #2, nothing happens (figure out why - see post below - this box has Pioneer Passport software instead of SA SARA software)

However if I turn on the box and my DLP everything looks great. I can access some basic options (same as my Pioneer) through the menus - hit Settings, then A for "More Settings" and can set the "Aspect Ratio" item to "16:9" and "4:3 Sidebar" (or Zoom or Stretch - I prefer Sidebar)

All the channels look great so there isn't necessarily something wrong but I wonder why I can't access the setup menus. I figured that maybe if DVI is connected these menus are totally bypassed but someone else with a SA4200 seemed to be able to access them.

Is there a certain sequence I need to follow when hooking up DVI to the box and the DLP? Should either one be on, while connecting? The way I hooked it up, was to simply unhook the DVI (already connected to the DLP) from the Pioneer and hook it into the SA3250. Both the TV and STB were off.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric

I spent a number of hours last night playing around with the SA3250HD and overall was very pleased with the box (I will explain more below). The one thing that was really annoying and I still haven't figured out yet, is how to get Pass Through mode to work over DVI (this is how I had my Pioneer 3510 configured). The geniuses at Time Warner were nice enough to give me a handy SA3250 HD setup instruction guide. What they neglected to tell you (or more likely haven't realized themselves) is that none of these instructions work b/c the TWC box is running Pioneer Passport software, while the instructions were created by SA for their SARA software. So the recommended setup procedures such as holding the Select button on the box or holding Guide and Info on the STB together, don't do anything.

The software and menus on this box looked completely identical to my Pioneer 3510. The options can only be accessed by hitting Settings and then A for More Settings. If you are using DVI, the only relevant option is the Aspect Ratio (TV Type and Picture Settings) - which I set to 16:9 and PillarBox (I hate stretch mode). If you are using Component, you have the additional option of telling the box what Output Formats your TV supports. By default the box was set to 1080i only.

Before I realized all of this (see clueless post above) I just plugged in DVI, set up the Aspect Ratio options and the picture looked really good. When I hit the Info button my Samsung HLP (which tells you the resolution the set is receiving for the selected source, among other things), I noticed that all channels were at 1080i (including SD channels). I couldn't' figure out how to change this - ideally I wanted Pass Through so each channel passes its native resolution to the Sammy or at least 720p only since that's the native resolution of my set. The only way to do this was to unhook DVI, hook up component and set the Output Format options (not available with DVI). First I tried setting this to 480p, 720p and 1080i (knowing 480i isn't compatible w/ DVI). When I unhooked component and hooked up DVI, now every channel was coming in at 480p (obviously unacceptable). To tell you the truth the HD channels still looked damn good and I didn't do a whole lot of comparing b/c I knew I wouldn't be happy with 480p on HD channels (actually thought that maybe my TV's resolution info was just wrong). So then I rehooked component up and set the output format to 720p only. Hooked DVI back up and now every channel is coming through in 720p, which is somewhat acceptable since my Samsung doesn't have to do any additional scaling/processing. However, still can't figure out how to do Pass Through.

I called Time Warner two separate times. Spoke to two people, neither of whom knew what DVI even was, they both put me on hold and came back and said - Time Warner doesn't support DVI - terrific. I explained that all I wanted to do was access the setup menus that let me do Pass Through since the instructions they gave me were wrong, but to no avail.

So that's how I left it for the time being - if anyone knows how to get pass through to work on this box, I'd appreciate hearing how. Overall I think the picture quality is pretty amazing. Discovery HD looked great (on 720p mode). Only other thing I watched on a 1080i channel was Leno, which for some reason wasn't coming in as Widescreen - hoping it won't do this from now on or worse for anything on NBC with the Olympics coming up.

Here are the other observations regarding the SA3250 (in no particular order):

1) The Guide DOESN'T crash on 720p channels and is much faster on HD channels than it was on the Pioneer - little to no difference between the speed of the guide on HD vs. SD channels. This could have to do with the fact that the Guide only displays in a 4:3 window - doesn't fill the screen like the Pioneer does. Not a big deal if it works faster and doesn't crash.

2) The pillar box is gray on all channels (not just CBS HD). Not sure if I like this, as the bezel on my TV is black and with the lights off you could watch a 4:3 program w/o even noticing the pillar box. But not a big deal so far.

3) Channel changing appears quicker - not very noticeable though.

4) After one night the box has NOT REBOOTED - if this continues, it will be a big plus over the Pioneer.

5) The optical output is huge for me. I have two cable boxes in my living room (thanks to TW's speedy rollout of the HD DVR :) ). Both previously only had coax digital audio outs and my receiver only has one coax in. So I had to get this annoying converter for my SD DVR that would take few seconds to kick the audio in to full volume when you switched channels or unpaused. Now I only need 1 coaxial in on my receiver and everything works much better.

6) The box is much smaller (probably half the size of the Pioneer)

7) Overall I think the picture is probably a little sharper with better colors than the Pioneer - side by side comparison are obviously difficult though.

I still have a Pioneer in my bedroom and if I can't get pass through to work or if the SA3250 decides to start rebooting, I may switch back to it, but for the time being I'm fairly pleased with this box.

Sorry for the extremely long winded post.

Eric, what is Pass Through ? Having come directly from the 3100HD, I am not sure what that is. For me changing channels was slower, except when I used DVI, it was faster, but not as fast as my 3100HD.

The picture difference was more noticeable on my Pioneer 533. Some really good channels almost look HD in their clarity. The colors too are much better. The 3250HD is definitely a better box than the 3100 and it seems according to your review it is probably better than the Pioneer also.

All in all, a great review EricScott !

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
Eric, what is Pass Through ? Having come directly from the 3100HD, I am not sure what that is. For me changing channels was slower, except when I used DVI, it was faster, but not as fast as my 3100HD.

The picture difference was more noticeable on my Pioneer 533. Some really good channels almost look HD in their clarity. The colors too are much better. The 3250HD is definitely a better box than the 3100 and it seems according to your review it is probably better than the Pioneer also.

All in all, a great review EricScott !

Pass Through simply means that the STB doesn't do any scaling. Whatever resolution a channel is, is passed, as is to the TV. The one exception is 480i is deinterlaced and converted to 480p if you are using DVI. But 720p comes in as 720p and 1080i comes in as 1080i. You would prefer this mode if the scaler on your TV was better than the scaler in the box, which for most good tv's is likely the case.

Another poster in one of the other forums who has the SA4200 (very similar to the 3250) on Cablevision (they use the SARA software I guess) thought Pass Through looked better on his Samsung than 720p only.

not to get off topic but G4TechTV is back on same channel 105.

Originally posted by cap_167
not to get off topic but G4TechTV is back on same channel 105.

Cool ! But I am not sure it will be as good as TechTV.

Originally posted by EricScott
Pass Through simply means that the STB doesn't do any scaling. Whatever resolution a channel is, is passed, as is to the TV. The one exception is 480i is deinterlaced and converted to 480p if you are using DVI. But 720p comes in as 720p and 1080i comes in as 1080i. You would prefer this mode if the scaler on your TV was better than the scaler in the box, which for most good tv's is likely the case.

Another poster in one of the other forums who has the SA4200 (very similar to the 3250) on Cablevision (they use the SARA software I guess) thought Pass Through looked better on his Samsung than 720p only.

For me it's not important now but when I get my Kirk it will become more important. I have a feeling this will be the best box we see from TWC in a long time....a year even. I heard the 8000HD DVR box sucks. I might have a hard time getting the DVR box if it's a step backwards.

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
For me it's not important now but when I get my Kirk it will become more important. I have a feeling this will be the best box we see from TWC in a long time....a year even. I heard the 8000HD DVR box sucks. I might have a hard time getting the DVR box if it's a step backwards.

I think I read in a massive 3250 thread in the HDTV Hardware forum that when TWC NYC rolls out the HD DVR that they will officially support DVI for other boxes as well and may update the software. I agree though that this box is probably as good as it gets for a while.

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
For me it's not important now but when I get my Kirk it will become more important. I have a feeling this will be the best box we see from TWC in a long time....a year even. I heard the 8000HD DVR box sucks. I might have a hard time getting the DVR box if it's a step backwards.

The 8000HD DVR that is out now runs SARA software, not Pioneer Passport. The 8000 SARA is terrible compared to Passport. I actually think the 8000 Passport is very good - I sold my ReplayTV when I got it. I believe that the 8000HD Passport will be very good when we get it. It definately sucks waiting a year, but hopefully it will be worth it.

So Eric,

From your post, it sounds like you can still get pass-thru with the 3250 by using component out instead of DVI.
Is this correct?
I plan on switching to an HD box tomorrow.
I hope I can get this box.

Originally posted by timewaster
So Eric,

From your post, it sounds like you can still get pass-thru with the 3250 by using component out instead of DVI.
Is this correct?
I plan on switching to an HD box tomorrow.
I hope I can get this box.

Yes - Pass Through works over component and you can select all 4 formats (including 480i) - assuming of course your TV supports it.

However, I will caution you that I received a PM a few minutes ago answering some questions I had about this box and was told that for some reason these boxes tend to just reset your output format settings randomly when you use component. So one day you will turn it on and it will only be outputting 1080i or something like that.

Just something to think about. This person also confirmed that you cannot do Pass Through over DVI and seemed to think the Pioneer was superior over DVI. So I may switch back.

Anyone notice that if you go to Pioneer Electronics' site, they no longer list their cable boxes. And if you go to Pioneer's Passport site, the pages for the STBs do not load. I had read that Pioneer was getting out of the OEM STB business but surprised that you can't access their site anymore. Guess we won't be getitng the 4000HD DVR in NYC.

Eric, see if you can do a side by side comparison and tell me which has the better DVI port. Does the Pioneer have more aspect ratio control than the 3250HD ?

Eric, I did notice that too. The whole site seems to be a bit kludeged up right now. As of last fall they were still advertising and marketing boxes, but who knows.....

Drew

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
Eric, see if you can do a side by side comparison and tell me which has the better DVI port. Does the Pioneer have more aspect ratio control than the 3250HD ?

I will fiddle with both boxes more this weekend but AFAIK, you can't really say one box has better aspect ratio control than the other - the options they each provide are different:

The Pioneer automatically Passes Through the output format of each station (except 480i, which is deinterlaced to 480p) over DVI. I do not believe it is possible to have the Pioneer output a Fixed aspect ratio (although it may be possible, by hooking up component to access the Output Format option and telling the box that your TV can only receive a single output format, say 720p).

The SA3250 does not let you do Pass Through and basically forces you to pick an output format. I chose 720p as this matches the native resolution of my set.

So the options appear to be different. Personally I would prefer to do Pass Through over DVI (and would certainly like to have the option to do either) but I watched a few different channels last night - CBS (CSI), NBC (ER), Discovery and Channel 13 - all 1080i channels and they all looked really good on the SA3250. The color just seems better on this box than the Pioneer (although I'm going off of memory here).

So I'm pretty pleased so far w/ the 3250 and will likely keep it. The true test will be this weekend - PGA Champ. on CBS and Olympics on NBC. If the box performs well on those 1080i channels, I think it's a keeper.

One thing that really annoys me is the gray pillar bars. With the lights out, you can clearly see the bars, whereas on the Pioneer with the black bars, they just blended into the black bezel of my Sammy - could barely notice them.

One interesting observation - on my Pioneer, the only channel with gray pillar bars was CBS HD. On the SA3250, the only channel with black pillar bars is CBS HD - go figure. My guess is that the box just reverses whatever the channel broadcasts (gray becomes black and vice versa).

Oh and - 2 days and counting - no random reboots.

I have a 3250 and it allows passthrough over component.

Originally posted by EricScott
One thing that really annoys me is the gray pillar bars. With the lights out, you can clearly see the bars, whereas on the Pioneer with the black bars, they just blended into the black bezel of my Sammy - could barely notice them.

One interesting observation - on my Pioneer, the only channel with gray pillar bars was CBS HD. On the SA3250, the only channel with black pillar bars is CBS HD - go figure. My guess is that the box just reverses whatever the channel broadcasts (gray becomes black and vice versa).


The gray pillars alone would keep me from replacing my Pioneer box with the SA3250. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the color could be toggled between black and gray but can't find that information in any of the online SA manuals for the box. It has been my understanding that pillars appearing on a HD channel when broadcasting 4:3 programs are an integral part of the picture, not something that's added or that could be altered by a STB (unlike the pillars that are added by the box when a SD channel is being viewed).

there too much activity on this list for no HD-DVR or new channel announcements.

We should start another thread titled "the Official TWC NYC thread of broing stuff that has been repeated 100 times over the last 70 pages"