Originally posted by Manatus
The gray pillars alone would keep me from replacing my Pioneer box with the SA3250. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the color could be toggled between black and gray but can't find that information in any of the online SA manuals for the box. It has been my understanding that pillars appearing on a HD channel when broadcasting 4:3 programs are an integral part of the picture, not something that's added or that could be altered by a STB (unlike the pillars that are added by the box when a SD channel is being viewed).

I'm pretty sure toggling of the pillar color is only available with the SARA software. Checked the menus and didn't see any such option on Passport. It appears that SARA offers quite a few extra options - in particular control over some of the audio features.

But yes, the pillars are annoying and may cause me to go back to the Pioneer. If I had a plasma, I guess they would be useful. But I don't so I want to get rid of them.

The TitanTV.com website says that the Olympics will be broadcast on the FOX channel (705) in HD tonight starting at 9 PM. Is this true?

Originally posted by dkan24
there too much activity on this list for no HD-DVR or new channel announcements.


So I guess you are suggesting that no on e posts anyting until November/December? :)

I know I have been posting quite a bit to this thread lately but given that the 3250's are now readily available, I think this is somewhat significant - agreed not as significant as if/when the HD DVR.

Also, does anyone know if the Jet game tonight on CBS will be broadcast in HD ???

The SA3250 does not let you do Pass Through and basically forces you to pick an output format. I chose 720p as this matches the native resolution of my set.

Actually, the 3250 lets you pick more than one format. I selected 480p, 720p, AND 1080i, and the box just sends me whatever the channel is broadcasting.

Originally posted by stencil
Actually, the 3250 lets you pick more than one format. I selected 480p, 720p, AND 1080i, and the box just sends me whatever the channel is broadcasting.

Are you using component or DVI - I'm guessing component??

Over component, the 3250 will defintely pass all supported resolutions (set in Output Formats option only avail w/ component) as is.

For DVI, I have been unable to figure out how to do this. If I select 480p, 720p and 1080i as supported formats (which I have to do w/ component temporarily connected; DVI temporarily disconnected), when I hook up DVI everything comes in at 480p - obviously not aceptable for HD.

If you are using DVI and are able to Pass Through the formats, I would love to know how you did it.

Originally posted by EricScott
So I guess you are suggesting that no on e posts anyting until November/December? :)

I know I have been posting quite a bit to this thread lately but given that the 3250's are now readily available, I think this is somewhat significant - agreed not as significant as if/when the HD DVR.

I am just posting my frustration, that is all.

If the 3250 had firewire, I would pick it up. But since you must make an appointment and have a firewire enabled TV, I can not get one. I want one just to play around with recording to PC.

Originally posted by EricScott
Are you using component or DVI - I'm guessing component??

You are correct. I'm using component. Curious - is the picture that better over DVI to forego the passthrough?

Originally posted by stencil
You are correct. I'm using component. Curious - is the picture that better over DVI to forego the passthrough?

I personally think the PQ over DVI (even at 720p only) is really good. If you have a fixed pixel display going all digital should yield better PQ. Would prefer Pass Through over DVI but Fixed 720p is pretty damn good. I haven't done a ton of side by side compisons with the 3250 but on my Pioneer I did a side by side test and preferred DVI.

Originally posted by Maurice2
The TitanTV.com website says that the Olympics will be broadcast on the FOX channel (705) in HD tonight starting at 9 PM. Is this true?

Highly doubtful. It's not on the TWCNYC Guide, and NBC owns the Olympics, not Fox.

The real question is, what will come over 704 at 8:00 p.m.?

I just checked the WNBC website. They say they will have 4 hours of HDTV coverage starting at 9:00 pm. Then they repeat it continually until 4:00 am. Sunday.

Originally posted by rgrossman
Highly doubtful. It's not on the TWCNYC Guide, and NBC owns the Olympics, not Fox.

The real question is, what will come over 704 at 8:00 p.m.?

According to this, at 8pm there is supposed to be some sort of HD highlight show of the Salt Lake Games. Opening Ceremonies at 9pm.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4183490#post4183490

Thanks for all the 411 on the DVI outputs guys, will make picking the box for my next set up easier (unless the 8000Hd is out by then...)

TM

Hey, Why arent the opening games in HD. They are rebroadcasting old footage from prior years!?

Never mind, it seems fixed now.

Drew

I just got my JVC plasma and hooked it up to my SA 3250 box.
I never realized just how terrible SD would look on this ...ugh!
HD looks amazing though... :)


My big problem is this: On many channels (most notably ABC HD) I've noticed that the audio is not completely in sync with the video..it appears that the video lags the audio signal by about a quarter second. Have any of you experienced this, and is there a solution?


My setup:
I have an optical cable from the SA box to my AV Reciever (Onkyo).
I have component cables from the SA box to my media reciever, and then that is connected by a proprietary digital cable to the TV.

I finally made the switch from analog to an HD digital box yesterday.
The women was about to give me a SA, but I specifically ask for the Pioneer. She managed to find one and said I was lucky since they usually don't have the Pioneer.

Hooked it up and the HD channels are magnifcent. especially discover HD.

DVI on this pioneer is useless for me. whenever I shut off my tv, the box would just reset and shutdown almost immediately so I had to switch to component. (I have a Sony plasma)

I'm a bit confused about setting up passthru. If I want passthru they I should select all output formats (480i, 480p,720p,1080i). Is this correct?

I'm disappointed with NBC. I guess they are only broadcasting the opening and closing ceremony in HD and running the opening ceremony in a loop.

when watching the olympics, there is an occassional stutter. the picture just feezes for about 1-2 secs before continuing. anybody else experience this?

Originally posted by timewaster
I'm a bit confused about setting up passthru. If I want passthru they I should select all output formats (480i, 480p,720p,1080i). Is this correct?

I'm disappointed with NBC. I guess they are only broadcasting the opening and closing ceremony in HD and running the opening ceremony in a loop.


To achieve passthrough, you should select every format that's supported by the TV input that you're using. However, though it's become somewhat fashionable around here to speak of passthrough as being beneficial, for most component connections, it's a dubious setup, at best. My TV's manufacturer, Samsung, for example, recommends always configuring a STB to output only the TV's single native resolution, so that scaling is done in the STB before the signal undergoes D/A conversion and three-way color separation for transmission over the component output.

NBC's HD Olympics coverage is very limited, but it's not that limited. You'll find the schedule and a discussion HERE. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=432732&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)

1 analog channel has been dropped. Metro channel which was temporarily dropped along with MSG and Fox Sports has moved to DTV channel 150. I'm told that we would have liked to slowly transitioned MSG and Fox Sports to DTV's sports tier which was one of the sticking points to contract negotiations. That would have stabalized rates for standard service tier and free up two more channels for use for HDTV or other services. Those 2 channels may still me lumped with YES Network at some point to create an analog sports tier

Originally posted by dkan24
I am just posting my frustration, that is all.

If the 3250 had firewire, I would pick it up. But since you must make an appointment and have a firewire enabled TV, I can not get one. I want one just to play around with recording to PC.

You don't need a firewire enabled TV just one with HD. The cable guy just checked to see if my TV's were HD capable and then left me with two 3250HD boxes. Hell my Pioneer HD533 doesn't even have a DVI connector let alone firewire.


EricScott - The lack of pass through made me switch back to component from DVI on my Sony 65WV600. I'll see how it works on my Kirk when that comes in. How is your 3250 doing now ?

Originally posted by Mixdoctor

EricScott - The lack of pass through made me switch back to component from DVI on my Sony 65WV600. I'll see how it works on my Kirk when that comes in. How is your 3250 doing now ?

So far I've been really happy with it on 720p Fixed. Watched the PGA yesterday and it looked awesome. Will watch the Olympics today but so far so good.

I have no rebooting issues on my 3510 Pioneer. It also lets me record my 700 tier channels on my ReplayTV in hi-def (downgraded to 480P - but still widescreen - the SA3100 wouldn't let me do this).

Is there any reason to upgrade to the SA3250 for me?

Anyone else notice the poor picture quality during the men's gymnastics on 704 last night. It seemed to be heavily compressed b/c the picture really broke up during fast motion. Very pixelated.
Looked great when people were standing still, though! :)

Originally posted by DjPiLL
I have no rebooting issues on my 3510 Pioneer. It also lets me record my 700 tier channels on my ReplayTV in hi-def (downgraded to 480P - but still widescreen - the SA3100 wouldn't let me do this).

Is there any reason to upgrade to the SA3250 for me?

If your Pioneer doesn't reboot (are you using DVI or Component?) then I wouldn't bother switching.

That being said, I have been very happy with my 3250 - I do think the PQ is slightly better (esp. the color) than the Pioneer - although it's really tough to say for sure as side by side comparisons are impossible. It annoys me that I can't do Pass Through over DVI but the fact that the box doesn't shut down all the time is a major plus. I did try to compare 1080i Fixed vs. 720p Fixed on 1080i channels yesterday (NBC and CBS for the Olympics and PGA) and really thought the quality was comparable, suggesting that Pass Through wouldn't provide any meaningful improvement over 720p fixed for HD channels. Can't speak to SD channels since I watch them on a different box.

If your Pioneer works, I would stick with it. But if you were getting a new box today, I would say go w/ the 3250.

Originally posted by vlapietra
Anyone else notice the poor picture quality during the men's gymnastics on 704 last night. It seemed to be heavily compressed b/c the picture really broke up during fast motion. Very pixelated.
Looked great when people were standing still, though! :)

Yes - also during the Men's diving (amazing what you will watch just b/c it's in HD) :)

Thanks for the update twcinsider. Wish you'd post more :-)

Any update on how the transition of channels 81-93 is going?

Drew

Originally posted by dkan24
The 8000HD DVR that is out now runs SARA software, not Pioneer Passport. The 8000 SARA is terrible compared to Passport. I actually think the 8000 Passport is very good - I sold my ReplayTV when I got it. I believe that the 8000HD Passport will be very good when we get it. It definately sucks waiting a year, but hopefully it will be worth it.


Well... TWC better have something planned soon as far as a Hi-Def DVR goes. RCN launches their DVR service nationwide starting October 1st.

http://www.rcn.com/investor/pr.php?id=211

I was watching some of the pga over the weekend and noticed that some shots were clearly not HD and others were. Is it common for CBS to mix HD and non-HD material for their sporting events?

Originally posted by timewaster
I was watching some of the pga over the weekend and noticed that some shots were clearly not HD and others were. Is it common for CBS to mix HD and non-HD material for their sporting events?


This was done with the Basketball too. I think it was just more noticeable with the Golf since it was an outdoor event.

Originally posted by timewaster
I was watching some of the pga over the weekend and noticed that some shots were clearly not HD and others were. Is it common for CBS to mix HD and non-HD material for their sporting events?

For golf - yes. Supposedly the Masters was similiar although with a higher % of HD. It's really difficult to have every single camera over such a huge course be in HD.

For about an hour I was really upset and considered returning my TV :) Obviously there was a huge contrast b/t the SD and HD, which made the selected HD shots even more enjoyable.

I would expect football to be all HD though.

Originally posted by EricScott
For golf - yes. Supposedly the Masters was similiar although with a higher % of HD. It's really difficult to have every single camera over such a huge course be in HD.

For about an hour I was really upset and considered returning my TV :) Obviously there was a huge contrast b/t the SD and HD, which made the selected HD shots even more enjoyable.

I would expect football to be all HD though.

cool.
That doesn't really bother me since I'm not much of a golf fan.
Football though, would be important to me.
Anybody have a list of the football games CBS will broadcast in HD?
Fox released their list of HD broadcast games. Did CBS do something similar?
When is the next pre-season game to be broadcast in HD (fox,abc, cbs)?

Originally posted by timewaster
cool.
That doesn't really bother me since I'm not much of a golf fan.
Football though, would be important to me.
Anybody have a list of the football games CBS will broadcast in HD?
Fox released their list of HD broadcast games. Did CBS do something similar?
When is the next pre-season game to be broadcast in HD (fox,abc, cbs)?

Check the HDTV Programming forum. There are all sorts of stickies at the top about NFL programming. Haven't read through them much.

Were the CBS preseason games in HD? I know the Hall of Fame Game last Monday on ABC, was. Fox, AFAIK isn't broadcasting HD yet.

As posted by Ken H. in the HDTV forum......

2004 NFL In HDTV!
- ABC Monday Night Football - 17 games, Wild Card Playoffs

- The NFL On CBS - 51 games, AFC Playoffs, AFC Championship

- ESPN HD Sunday Night Football - 17 games

- NFL On FOX - 97 games, NFC Playoffs, NFC Championship, 2005 Super Bowl

- NFL Sunday Ticket - 100 games, some of which will be blacked out in local areas in favor of local stations HD carriage (as FOX did last year). This may be subject to change due to the addition of the CBS games.

- The actual number of HD games on FOX, CBS and thus NFL ST, is considered relatively accurate, but subject to change. The numbers on ABC & ESPN HD are pretty firm.


__________________

Originally posted by Manatus
To achieve passthrough, you should select every format that's supported by the TV input that you're using. However, though it's become somewhat fashionable around here to speak of passthrough as being beneficial, for most component connections, it's a dubious setup, at best. My TV's manufacturer, Samsung, for example, recommends always configuring a STB to output only the TV's single native resolution, so that scaling is done in the STB before the signal undergoes D/A conversion and three-way color separation for transmission over the component output.


passthru mode may be dubious with your set but it certainly isn't with mine. I don't want the cable box converting 720p to 1080i so my TV has to deinterlace the image and then rescale it to its non-standard resolution. Nor do I want the cable box to de-interlace 1080i signals (I doubt it does this well) and throw away pixels my TV's scaler could use. Anyone else with a fixed pixel display that does not match the 720p or 1080p resolution would be in the same position (that describes all plasma owners, most LCD flat panel owners and all Grand Wega owners).

The scaler in Scientific Atlanta boxes is pretty crappy (I am sure the de-interlacer is too) so I suspect that even those with a 720p DLP (or 1080p flat panel) would be better off with passthru.

Originally posted by ADGrant
passthru mode may be dubious with your set but it certainly isn't with mine. I don't want the cable box converting 720p to 1080i so my TV has to deinterlace the image and then rescale it to its non-standard resolution. Nor do I want the cable box to de-interlace 1080i signals (I doubt it does this well) and throw away pixels my TV's scaler could use. Anyone else with a fixed pixel display that does not match the 720p or 1080p resolution would be in the same position (that describes all plasma owners, most LCD flat panel owners and all Grand Wega owners).

The scaler in Scientific Atlanta boxes is pretty crappy (I am sure the de-interlacer is too) so I suspect that even those with a 720p DLP (or 1080p flat panel) would be better off with passthru.

Agreed but as stated above you can't get the 3250 to do Pass Through. So far the results on 720p only for my Samsung DLP have been quite good.

While watching NBC HD (Olympics) and CBS HD (PGA Champ) yesterday I flipped between 720p Fixed (what I currently have my box set at) and 1080i Fixed. 1080i Fixed on a 1080i channel would be the equivalent of what I would get with Pass Through (assuming I could activate it). I didn't really notice any difference between the two. Since I don't watch SD through this box and 720p Fixed is obviously great for 720p channels, I am pretty satisified with the box as is. Would still probably prefer Pass Through but what are you gonna do?

I have a pioneer box and a Panasonic plasma. DVI does not work for me, as I described here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3056889#post3056889). I have since resigned myself to using component. Does anybody know if the SA3250 solves this DVI issue? If not, is there any other reason I would want to make this switch (I don't have a "bad" shutdown problem)?

Originally posted by Sickman
I have a pioneer box and a Panasonic plasma. DVI does not work for me, as I described here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3056889#post3056889). I have since resigned myself to using component. Does anybody know if the SA3250 solves this DVI issue? If not, is there any other reason I would want to make this switch (I don't have a "bad" shutdown problem)?

When was the last time that you tried using the 3510's DVI output? The problem that you described in the thread to which you posted a link was resolved quite some time ago. If you have experienced the problem recently, perhaps there's something wrong with your particular 3510.

I gave it a quick try a few weeks ago and no luck. Maybe I'll give it another shot. How do you know it was resolved?

Originally posted by Sickman
I gave it a quick try a few weeks ago and no luck. Maybe I'll give it another shot. How do you know it was resolved?

Pioneer developed and TWCNYC distributed a software patch early this year that resolved the problem that produced the "please connect a HDTV" error message. That whole issue was discussed extensively in this thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=289334) It's possible, of course, that what you're experiencing is a different incompatibility that's generating the same error message.

Anyone else experiencing video lag (video lagging audio by a milisecond or two) on certain channels? - mainly Discovery HD, PBS HD, ABC HD, Fox.

I've hooked up my SA 3250 box via component and DVI and still the same delay.

Any thoughts?

The only video lag I've ever noticed is in on Fox (705) during most of their prime-time lineup. Whenever I'm flipping channels and land on Quintuplets(?) the lag is so pronounced it seems like they have the audio for the wrong episode playing. Waaaaaay more than just a few milliseconds.

I picked up my Pioneer last friday and still have all the pay channels (hbo, showtime, cinemax, tmc). I'm guessing this is just temporary.
Anybody know how long this will last?

Audio / Video Lag. Yes, I've noticed on my Pioneer box that in the last few weeks the box can fall out of synch with the audio / video stream. This has happened on HD and SD channels. I was watching NY1 last week and I swear the audio was full 1 second behind the video. I powered down and powered up the box and the A/V was back in synch. This is a recent development? I generally never turn the cable box off, but I now power cycle it every other day since it only take a second.

Any one else noticing something similar?

Thanks

Drew

Originally posted by twcinsider
1 analog channel has been dropped. Metro channel which was temporarily dropped along with MSG and Fox Sports has moved to DTV channel 150. I'm told that we would have liked to slowly transitioned MSG and Fox Sports to DTV's sports tier which was one of the sticking points to contract negotiations. That would have stabalized rates for standard service tier and free up two more channels for use for HDTV or other services. Those 2 channels may still me lumped with YES Network at some point to create an analog sports tier

So now that Metro has been moved out of analog spectrum, when are we getting another HD channel? When I spoke with Bob Watson a couple of months ago, he told me that there were several channels (INHD1/2, TNT-HD) that were ready to go from a contractual standpoint, but were just waiting on spectrum. It's been a week since the spectrum was released, yet there seems to be no word about adding channels. I take that to mean that things weren't quite as ready to go as Watson indicated.

Since there's no longer any question about when some bandwidth will be available, does anyone want to guess what channel(s) we'll get and when? I was particularly annoyed last week when I was in Circuit City on 86th between 2nd & 3rd (TWC territory) and saw a sign advertizing TWC's HD service, listing the channels available. Among them were FSN, TNT-HD, and INHD. Unfortunately, the fine print underneath mentioned that not all services are available in all areas. That said, it's time for us to get more channels...
-JMP

I"ve been able to figure out that CBS and NBC broadcasts their HD signal as 1080i and ABC and FOX (in the future) are broadcasting in 720p.

Does anybody know what format HBOHD, SHOHD, Discover, and channel 713 broadcast in?

Also, I noticed that StarWare Ep II on HBOHD did not have black bars, but my dvd does. Does HBO do some kind of conversion on their movies?

HBOHD, SHOHD, Discover and Channel 13 are broadcast in 1080i.

Originally posted by DJ Frustration
HBOHD, SHOHD, Discover and Channel 13 are broadcast in 1080i.

ahh, that explains why ABC doesn't look as good as the other channels.
the native resolution on my plasma is 1080i

Originally posted by timewaster
ahh, that explains why ABC doesn't look as good as the other channels.
the native resolution on my plasma is 1080i

What plasma has a native resolution of 1080i?

Originally posted by bigd86
What plasma has a native resolution of 1080i?


I think you are referring to 1080p... and no plasma is native 1080p. I think there are 1080i plasmas though.

Despite powering down my SA 3250 box and then on again, the video lag is still there for most of the HD channels. ARGH! Its really frustrating since I just spent a ton of money on this plasma and I'd like everything to be perfect.

Now do I have to go out and buy a $1000 receiver just to get an audio delay function?

Does Time Warner know about these issues? Can anything be tweaked on the box?

Originally posted by bigd86
What plasma has a native resolution of 1080i?

I have a Sony KE37X910.
Its an Alis panel. Aren't all Alis panels 1080i?
I believe its native resolution is 1080i, but I could be wrong.

Anyone catch the Giants/Panthers pre-season game on FOX?
I was surprised to find it in HD. THere was an argument going on in another thread where most people said it definititely would NOT be in HD.
Looks like they were wrong.
Looking forward to football season!

Correction... people are saying the game was in 480p upconverted.
but it looked damn good to me.

Originally posted by timewaster
Also, I noticed that StarWare Ep II on HBOHD did not have black bars, but my dvd does. Does HBO do some kind of conversion on their movies?
HBO crops all of their movies to a 16:9 aspect ratio, so they completely fill a wide screen TV w/o black bars. For more info/ranting on this then anyone could ever possibly want just do a search for 'OAR HBO' in this forum.

I'm trying to get a free flat screen TV from this site (http://users.erols.com/busker/ipodflatscreen/) (either a 27" Wega or an LCD) for the bedroom (HD is in the living room) but am not sure how DTV will work just plugging straight into the TV. Obviously HD channels won't come through but will I get anything? I know the channel numbers will likely be all crazy but I don't feel like getting another cable box...

Forgive me if this is a total noob question. My first HDTV arrived today (a Sony-KV-34XBR960--and yes, it rocks), and I have a TWC non-HD cable box (the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000). I put a splitter on the cable from the wall in order to run a cable to the box and one to the cable input on the TV, which lets me watch the unencrypted HD channels (WNBC, WNET, etc). The TV's manual says I can watch encrypted HD channels by runnning a cable from the box to the TV's antenna input, which certainly allows me to watch whatever SD channels I select on the cable box...but when I attempt to select an HD channel on the cable box--even the unencrypted ones--I get bupkis. Do I need an HD cable box to get an HD signal on a cable running from the box to the antenna input?

The Olympics on WNBC look fantastic, though certainly there are times where I'm getting what look like compression artifacts. I can only assume this is TWC's fault and not that of the TV. I'm looking forward to seeing what the games look like when the antenna I ordered from Amazon arrives next week (when I connnected an FM antenna to the input, the only HD channel the TV could find was WCBS).

Is anyone having trouble with Video On Demand in Brooklyn? It appears that both of my STB's can't obtain an IP address. I have to wait a week for an appointment...

Originally posted by andrewjnyc
Forgive me if this is a total noob question. My first HDTV arrived today (a Sony-KV-34XBR960--and yes, it rocks), and I have a TWC non-HD cable box (the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000). I put a splitter on the cable from the wall in order to run a cable to the box and one to the cable input on the TV, which lets me watch the unencrypted HD channels (WNBC, WNET, etc). The TV's manual says I can watch encrypted HD channels by runnning a cable from the box to the TV's antenna input, which certainly allows me to watch whatever SD channels I select on the cable box...but when I attempt to select an HD channel on the cable box--even the unencrypted ones--I get bupkis. Do I need an HD cable box to get an HD signal on a cable running from the box to the antenna input?


Even with an HD box, that wouldn't work. You can get HD only over the component connections (or DVI if the box and the TV have one).

And for SD, you would be much better off using the S-Video connection on your present box.

Unencrypted HD channels? If you are tuning your TV to 4 and 13 for WNBC and WNET, you're not getting HD. That's still SD. Their HD channels are 704 and 713.

Originally posted by andrewjnyc
Do I need an HD cable box to get an HD signal on a cable running from the box to the antenna input?

You need to trade your SA8000 for a HD STB (there's no extra charge for doing so). Even then, no STB will deliver a HD signal when connected to a TV's antenna input. The only inputs that will support that are component, DVI/HDMI, and VGA. Grab your 8000 and head for your nearest TWCNYC office for a trade-in (I'm not sure what you are seeing with your present set-up, but I very much doubt that it's HD).

BTW, I have a HD receiver as well as a HD STB, and it's very unlikely that you're going to receive any OTA HD channel -- except, possibly, WPIX-- that's not duplicated on TWCNYC. That will probably change when the long-delayed Empire State Building antenna "combiner" goes into service. The most jaw-dropping HD pictures these days available to NYCers without satellite dishes are on Discovery HD, and you will need a TWC HD box to view that channel.

Originally posted by Manatus
You need to trade your SA8000 for a HD STB (there's no extra charge for doing so). Even then, no STB will deliver a HD signal when connected to a TV's antenna input. The only inputs that will support that are component, DVI/HDMI, and VGA. Grab your 8000 and head for your nearest TWCNYC office for a trade-in (I'm not sure what you are seeing with your present set-up, but I very much doubt that it's HD).

Well, what I do for a living pretty much requires me to have a DVR...so I probably won't trade in my SA8000 until the SA8000HD becomes available and, until then, I'll make do with OTA HDTV. TWC's small lineup means I'll only be missing Discovery, HBO and Showtime. I only hooked up the cable box to the antenna input as an experiment (since the manual lists it as a valid setup option, though that appears not to be the case). The HD picture I'm getting by splitting the cable before the box and running a line into the set's cable input is terrific, though the digital artifacts that are popping up on WNBC from time to time have me hoping that the image I'll get when my antenna arrives next week will be even better.

Originally posted by andrewjnyc
Well, what I do for a living pretty much requires me to have a DVR...so I probably won't trade in my SA8000 until the SA8000HD becomes available and, until then, I'll make do with OTA HDTV. TWC's small lineup means I'll only be missing Discovery, HBO and Showtime. I only hooked up the cable box to the antenna input as an experiment (since the manual lists it as a valid setup option, though that appears not to be the case). The HD picture I'm getting by splitting the cable before the box and running a line into the set's cable input is terrific, though the digital artifacts that are popping up on WNBC from time to time have me hoping that the image I'll get when my antenna arrives next week will be even better.

You may want to consider getting a HD box in addition to your SA 8000. That's what I have. There are some annoying issues with IR conflicts but I am almost never watching both boxes at the same time and if you are recording something on the DVR and it won't let you change channels if it will mean cancelling the recording (at least not without your approval).

The digital artifacts on NBC HD are a widespread problem that many people have complained about. NBC's HD feed is just not up to par.

I noticed during the women's 7000 meter (or whatever number of meters) qualifying race that the red on some of the shirts was so full of artifacts it appeared to be on fire. Pretty crazy.

Originally posted by bigd86
What plasma has a native resolution of 1080i? my Philips 42FD9954 has native 1080i.

Originally posted by Sickman
I have a pioneer box and a Panasonic plasma. DVI does not work for me, as I described here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3056889#post3056889). I have since resigned myself to using component. Does anybody know if the SA3250 solves this DVI issue? If not, is there any other reason I would want to make this switch (I don't have a "bad" shutdown problem)? call them up and ask if they have the new Pace box with DVI input, it also has 2 component inputs, here in S.I, NY we have the Pace HDTV Box, they switched it from the Scientific Atlanta HD box.

Originally posted by Rock the Mullet
hello everyone -

I am planning to upgrade to HDTV with TWC in NYC.

Can you tell me which is the best cable box? Pioneer or SA?

Also, whoever owns a plasma display - does the DVI connection work with one or both of those boxes?

Thanks! here in S.I,N.Y we just got the new Pace HD box with DVI and duall component inputs, the DVI works just fine, they changed the box from the SA-HD box which was crap.

Originally posted by cybertec
here in S.I,N.Y we just got the new Pace HD box with DVI and duall component inputs, the DVI works just fine, they changed the box from the SA-HD box which was crap.

Cybertec --

TWC-Staten Island is a stand-alone part of TWCNYC; it's a physically-separate system. There have been no reports here of any Pace box being available to non-SI TWCNYC customers.

cybertec

What is the model number of your Pace STB? Is it a DC-550? I am on Staten Island and plan to subscribe to SI Cable soon.

Thanks,
Cynthia

Those PACE boxes are great for the most part. Like Cynthia, I'd like to know the model # too.

Someone mentioned issues with VOD yesterday. It is VERY common that on rainy days you will have trouble getting VOD to work. It has nothing of course with the actual weather, it's just that the VOD can only support a limited # of feeds and everyone wants to watch VOD on rainy days. I'm sure if you try it today it will work no problem.

Drew

Originally posted by CynKennard
cybertec

What is the model number of your Pace STB? Is it a DC-550? I am on Staten Island and plan to subscribe to SI Cable soon.

Thanks,
Cynthia Cynthia, they only have one, here is the model number anyways, PACE-DC550P.

I need some input. I just got my Samsung Kirk DLP. I hooked it up to my SA3250HD box with both component and DVI. Beleive it or not I liked the component better. The DVI connection looks pixelated and blotchy. I have it set to 720p, my sets native resolution. I have a $19.95 DVI cable could that be the cause ? Should I switch to the Pioneer box that does pass through ? Is there a firmware upgrade that will make the 3250 look better with DVI ?

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
I need some input. I just got my Samsung Kirk DLP. I hooked it up to my SA3250HD box with both component and DVI. Beleive it or not I liked the component better. The DVI connection looks pixelated and blotchy. I have it set to 720p, my sets native resolution. I have a $19.95 DVI cable could that be the cause ? Should I switch to the Pioneer box that does pass through ? Is there a firmware upgrade that will make the 3250 look better with DVI ?

I had the Pioneer 3510 running pass through over DVI on my HLP5063 for almost two months and just switched to the 3250 using DVI - I like the 3250 better.

By any chance, are you watching the Olympics? There have been a ton of complaints about NBC's HD feed from Athens - very pixelated.

I have tried setting the 3250HD to 720p and 1080i fixed and think I prefer 1080i fixed slightly. Since most channels are 1080i (abc and fox are the only TWC NYC HD channels that aren't) I think it's probably the better setting.

The quality of your DVI cable shouldn't really matter much.

I would use Discovery HD as you standard for making quality comparisons - I think DVI looks far superior to Component on both the Pioneer and the 3250.

Originally posted by EricScott
I had the Pioneer 3510 running pass through over DVI on my HLP5063 for almost two months and just switched to the 3250 using DVI - I like the 3250 better.

By any chance, are you watching the Olympics? There have been a ton of complaints about NBC's HD feed from Athens - very pixelated.

I have tried setting the 3250HD to 720p and 1080i fixed and think I prefer 1080i fixed slightly. Since most channels are 1080i (abc and fox are the only TWC NYC HD channels that aren't) I think it's probably the better setting.

The quality of your DVI cable shouldn't really matter much.

I would use Discovery HD as you standard for making quality comparisons - I think DVI looks far superior to Component on both the Pioneer and the 3250.

The Olympics looked pretty good. Some motion artifacts and pixelated, but I think that's NBC.

I am mostly talking about my non HD channels. My HD channels look good with either DVI or component, but my non HD channels look kinda bad with DVI, better with component. Is this unusual ? What can I do to get my DVI looking better ?

Originally posted by Mixdoctor
The Olympics looked pretty good. Some motion artifacts and pixelated, but I think that's NBC.

I am mostly talking about my non HD channels. My HD channels look good with either DVI or component, but my non HD channels look kinda bad with DVI, better with component. Is this unusual ? What can I do to get my DVI looking better ?

SD over DVI definitely isn't great on the 3250 (or the Pioneer for that matter). Many people run a separate S-Video cable (in addition to DVI) for SD channels. Requires switching to a different input on the TV when you watch SD channels but should yield much better results. Also gives you more picture size options (DVI only gives you 4:3 and Wide; S-Video gives you Zoom 1, Zoom 2, Panorama, 4:3 and Wide), which come in most handy for SD.

I primarily watch SD via a separate SA 8000 DVR (not HD). This is connected to my HLP via S-Video and SD looks really good (much better than on the 3250 connected via DVI only).

Originally posted by andrewjnyc
... so I probably won't trade in my SA8000 until the SA8000HD becomes available ... According to the TWC CS person with whom I spoke last night, the SA 8000HD is available as of August 20th. They're coming to my apartment this morning (I already had the appointment scheduled to fix a modem problem), and are supposed to bring the new HD DVR box. I'll report if that actually occurs. Also, the CS rep said that the boxes are available at any billing center to swap. Can anyone confirm this information?

dpc

Originally posted by perrycampf
According to the TWC CS person with whom I spoke last night, the SA 8000HD is available as of August 20th. They're coming to my apartment this morning (I already had the appointment scheduled to fix a modem problem), and are supposed to bring the new HD DVR box. I'll report if that actually occurs. Also, the CS rep said that the boxes are available at any billing center to swap. Can anyone confirm this information?

dpc

All I know is that I went to the 23rd St. office about a week and half ago and they didn't have them and had no idea when they were coming in.

I sure hope you are right though.

Eric

I just spoke to a rep also and they claim that they are available as of Friday 8/20 and can be picked up at any TWC service center.

On the phone right now with them - told the same thing. The boxes just became available. However, in order to walk in to one of their retail locations to pick one up you need to drop off an HD box - they will not give you an HD DVR unless you give them an HD box. They will need to come over and install it for you at a charge of $25 or something like that.

If you call the main # they will provide you with a confirmation # to hold a box for you for pickup - although they apparently have plenty.

Also, supposedly the boxes can record 20 hrs of HD or 90 hrs of SD - not bad.

Just confirmed with customer service the same thing. You can walk into any customer service center and drop off an HD Box and pick up an SA8000HD DVR. I will be going after work.

Originally posted by EricScott
On the phone right now with them - told the same thing. The boxes just became available. However, in order to walk in to one of their retail locations to pick one up you need to drop off an HD box - they will not give you an HD DVR unless you give them an HD box. They will need to come over and install it for you at a charge of $25 or something like that.

Eric --

Does this mean that there is or isn't a self-install option? If these boxes really are available, that would solve the problem of not wanting to awaken at 4:00 am next Monday to watch the Olympics closing ceremonies.

Yes, they claim that there is a self install option only if you currently have an HD box.

Originally posted by EricScott
On the phone right now with them - told the same thing. The boxes just became available. However, in order to walk in to one of their retail locations to pick one up you need to drop off an HD box - they will not give you an HD DVR unless you give them an HD box. They will need to come over and install it for you at a charge of $25 or something like that.
Dang! I just walked in and swapped my Pio 3510 for an SA 3250 on saturday. If only I had known.
Anyway, thanks for the help with the 3250 EricScott, my reboot problems are a thing of the past. I also wound up setting the box to 1080i despite my 720p native TV. It just looks a bit better to me.
On what I hope is an unrelated note, one of the first programs I switched on after getting the 3250 was on 713 about the 'Dead Sea'. It looked beyond horrible, incredibly pixelated and grainy. My other channels looked fine, as did subsequent shows on PBS. Anyone else notice poor quality on this show?

Originally posted by vlapietra
Dang! I just walked in and swapped my Pio 3510 for an SA 3250 on saturday. If only I had known.
Anyway, thanks for the help with the 3250 EricScott, my reboot problems are a thing of the past. I also wound up setting the box to 1080i despite my 720p native TV. It just looks a bit better to me.
On what I hope is an unrelated note, one of the first programs I switched on after getting the 3250 was on 713 about the 'Dead Sea'. It looked beyond horrible, incredibly pixelated and grainy. My other channels looked fine, as did subsequent shows on PBS. Anyone else notice poor quality on this show?

I know - I figured you would be the first to have one given that you said you were going this weekend. I plan to swap my Pioneer for this bad boy later today or early tomorrow. I will keep the 3250 since I think I prefer it over the Pioneer and it will ultimately go much nicer in the bedroom due to the smaller footprint.

Just when I thought I had figured out the 3250, along comes another box to play with. I'm sure this one will have tons of issues but what the hell.

Vinny - aside from the reboot problem, do you think the 3250 has better PQ than the Pioneer? I agree that 1080i fixed is preferable to 720p on the Samsung btw.

My decision to switch to the SA8000HD will largely depend on whether its DVI port has been activated and the poor PQ reported by many users of the box with the SARA software has been improved in the Passport version.

Originally posted by Manatus
My decision to switch to the SA8000HD will largely depend on whether its DVI port has been activated and the poor PQ reported by many users of the box with the SARA software has been improved in the Passport version.

Agreed. I will let you know as soon as I get it if the DVI is active. I'm guessing it will work like the 3250 - no pass through, but fixed mode will work.

I am not getting rid of my SD 8000 DVR or my SA 3250 until this box proves to be reliable.

Has anyone tried a CableCard from TWCNYC? It looks like you can get them now...

http://www3.twcnyc.com/NASApp/CS/ContentServer?pagename=twcnyc/dtv&mysect=dtv/cablecard

Originally posted by EricScott
Vinny - aside from the reboot problem, do you think the 3250 has better PQ than the Pioneer? I agree that 1080i fixed is preferable to 720p on the Samsung btw.
Actually, I think I preferred the PQ on the 3510 a little more than the 3250. This is tough to judge b/c I never actually had both boxes at the same time. It's kind of tought to put my finger on, the PQ from the 3250 almost seems overly sharp to me. The 3510 felt a tad smoother and cleaner. But it might be due to me having it set to 1080i. But the pros (no reboots, actually being able to use the Guide) more than outweigh that.

I'll be waiting on your review of the HD-DVR, the same way I waited on the 3250 review! I might be double dipping at the 23rd st office this week. :)

Originally posted by vlapietra
It's kind of tought to put my finger on, the PQ from the 3250 almost seems overly sharp to me. The 3510 felt a tad smoother and cleaner. But it might be due to me having it set to 1080i. But the pros (no reboots, actually being able to use the Guide) more than outweigh that.


Interesting. You have the HLN, right? I have the HD3 HLP, which already "suffers" from a softer picture (I actually prefer the softer picture but many have been ranting about how it's not true HD, etc), so maybe that's why I seem to prefer the 3250. Although as you said, it's tough to decide without having them side by side.


I'll be waiting on your review of the HD-DVR, the same way I waited on the 3250 review! I might be double dipping at the 23rd st office this week. :)

Unfortunately I'm not going to have much time to play with the new box - going away for a week or so on Weds. but assuming I get it tomorrow, I will try to post initial impressions - at least on whether or not DVI works.

I have a feeling this box is going to be pretty unstable - but let's hope I'm wrong.

In reading through some of the 8000HD threads in the HDTV Hardware forum (and most of these appear to be SARA specific), it looks like the 8000HD doesn't let you output HD through DVI and SD through S-Video at the same time. You have to change the output format to 480i and then the S-Video will work, but DVI won't. If changing the output format is as hard to do on the 8000hd as it is on the 3250 (unhooking DVI, hooking up component, yada yada) this box will likely not be very useful.

SD over DVI is supposedly terrible and I was hoping to use S-Video to watch SD. I was hoping to just switch the input on my TV when watching an SD channel and I'd be all set (like on my 3250). But it appears that this is unlikely.

In the SARA software, changing the output resolution is really easy so it's not a big problem, but who knows what you have to do with Passport.

Should be interesting.

It should probably be Passport software. I am leaving for the 23rd st office soon, so we will all know soon enough!

Does the 8000HD allow you to record 2 shows at the same time?

On an unrelated note, 1080i broadcasts looks much better than 720p for me. CBS,HBO,Discover has a much better picture than ABC. I'm thinking its because my plasma has a native res of 1080i. For those of you who have 720p, does ABC look better than CBS and HBO?

Originally posted by timewaster
Does the 8000HD allow you to record 2 shows at the same time?

On an unrelated note, 1080i broadcasts looks much better than 720p for me. CBS,HBO,Discover has a much better picture than ABC. I'm thinking its because my plasma has a native res of 1080i. For those of you who have 720p, does ABC look better than CBS and HBO?

Your TV does not have a native res of 1080i. Its native res is 1024x1024. BTW the i in 1080i means interlaced, plasma technology is inherently progressive. Therefore no plasma will ever have a native res of 1080i.

FYI...not looking promising....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4241773#post4241773

Originally posted by timewaster
Does the 8000HD allow you to record 2 shows at the same time?


Yes. Just like the 8000 DVR the 8000HD has two tuners, so you can record two shows at the same time while watching a third pre-recorded show.


On an unrelated note, 1080i broadcasts looks much better than 720p for me. CBS,HBO,Discover has a much better picture than ABC. I'm thinking its because my plasma has a native res of 1080i. For those of you who have 720p, does ABC look better than CBS and HBO?

On my 720p Samsung DLP, ABC HD looks incredible (if I am outputting 720p from the box - see below) - better than CBS and NBC. Discovery (1080i) looks damn good though.

Given that ABC (and Fox one day) are the only 720p channels that TWC NYC offers, I actually have my SA3250 set to output 1080i only since my TV does a better job scaling the picture of the 1080i channels than the box does (Pass Through is not an option on this box). For 720p channels there are actually two conversions - 1) the STB scales 720p to 1080i; 2) the TV scales 1080i to 720p. Not ideal, and with this setup ABC HD definitely does not look better than CBS and NBC.

Wow, and its only the 3rd Quarter...... I'm hoping we get a confirmed 8000HD TWCNYC sighting before the end of the day so I can go and make the switch. Maybe you'll see me there, I'll be the guy in line with the Pio HD box under his arm with the hugh smile :)

Please post the report ASAP. Active DVI would be great.

Drew

I have it!

First impressions:

1. It is Passport sw like we thought
2. The guide and info bar are just 4x3 unlike the Pio 3510.
3. The pip is 4x3 as well and actually stretches and distorts HD if it is in the pip window.
4. The rep told me it has a 160GB hard drive. I don't know how to check it. I have set up about 10 hours of recording already! - including Attack of The Clones on at 8 on HBO - great show off movie.
5. The sw seems exactly the same as the 8000. You can set up first-run only and all that other stuff.
6. Overall , I am extremely happy. I have been waiting for this day for a year now. To top it off, my new speakers arrived today as well - Rocket Tykes.

Originally posted by dkan24
First impressions:

4. The rep told me it has a 160GB hard drive. I don't know how to check it. I have set up about 10 hours of recording already! - including Attack of The Clones on at 8 on HBO - great show off movie.


Congrats dkan -

160gb is consistent w/ the 20 hours of HD capacity I was quoted over the phone.

Does DVI work?

Can you output S-Video and Component (or DVI) simulteaneously?

Originally posted by dkan24
First impressions:

1. It is Passport sw like we thought
2. The guide and info bar are just 4x3 unlike the Pio 3510.
3. The pip is 4x3 as well and actually stretches and distorts HD if it is in the pip window.
4. The rep told me it has a 160GB hard drive. I don't know how to check it. I have set up about 10 hours of recording already! - including Attack of The Clones on at 8 on HBO - great show off movie.
5. The sw seems exactly the same as the 8000. You can set up first-run only and all that other stuff.
6. Overall , I am extremely happy. I have been waiting for this day for a year now. To top it off, my new speakers arrived today as well - Rocket Tykes.

Have you tried the DVI port?

Originally posted by dkan24
First impressions:

1. It is Passport sw like we thought
2. The guide and info bar are just 4x3 unlike the Pio 3510.
3. The pip is 4x3 as well and actually stretches and distorts HD if it is in the pip window.
4. The rep told me it has a 160GB hard drive. I don't know how to check it. I have set up about 10 hours of recording already! - including Attack of The Clones on at 8 on HBO - great show off movie.
5. The sw seems exactly the same as the 8000. You can set up first-run only and all that other stuff.
6. Overall , I am extremely happy. I have been waiting for this day for a year now. To top it off, my new speakers arrived today as well - Rocket Tykes.

And the status of the DVI port?

Talking to a technician at TWC-NYC now. According to his supervisor, the dvi port is indeed active on the SA800HD. I'm skeptical, but I'm going to take what he says as the truth (risky). I've double-checked with him, too, but this is the claim. I currently have both an s-video and a dvi hook up with my pioneer 3510hd, and use the s-video for basic cable channels and the dvi for hd channels, switching with the input selector on my television.

I am arranging an in-home install -- if the technician hooks up the new SA800HD box and the DVI is inactive -- or the simultaneous s-video/dvi ports cannot be hooked up at the same time, I'll tell him nevermind.

- walkman

UNBELIEVABLE!!! I'm tempted to skip out from work right now to go home, grab my box and head down to 23rd street...

Dkan, you just walked in there and there were no problems?

Originally posted by walkman666
Talking to a technician at TWC-NYC now. According to his supervisor, the dvi port is indeed active on the SA800HD. I'm skeptical, but I'm going to take what he says as the truth (risky). I've double-checked with him, too, but this is the claim. I currently have both an s-video and a dvi hook up with my pioneer 3510hd, and use the s-video for basic cable channels and the dvi for hd channels, switching with the input selector on my television.

I am arranging an in-home install -- if the technician hooks up the new SA800HD box and the DVI is inactive -- or the simultaneous s-video/dvi ports cannot be hooked up at the same time, I'll tell him nevermind.

- walkman

Wow - good to hear. I remember reading a while back that TWC NYC would officially support DVI on all of its boxes once the HD DVR was released. Of course we thought that would be december.

If the S-Vid and DVI work at the same time I'll be one happy camper. If not then this box will not be an effective replacement of the two boxes I currently have.

I can't test the DVI - my Panny projector does not have HDCP :(

The s-video does not work. I set it up for all output formats, and all I get is a gray screen on s-vid.

The box is a lot faster than my 8000. But my sister has an 8000 that was always a lot faster than mine, so maybe I just had a really slow one.

Another thing - I did not see a 1394 output on it. Looks like I'll be requesting a new box in a year!

Originally posted by jergans
UNBELIEVABLE!!! I'm tempted to skip out from work right now to go home, grab my box and head down to 23rd street...

Dkan, you just walked in there and there were no problems?

Walked in and was out in an hour. My hands were shaking, I was so nervous/excited! I have been waiting for this day for a year now! :)

Originally posted by dkan24
I can't test the DVI - my Panny projector does not have HDCP :(

The s-video does not work. I set it up for all output formats, and all I get is a gray screen on s-vid.

The box is a lot faster than my 8000. But my sister has an 8000 that was always a lot faster than mine, so maybe I just had a really slow one.

Another thing - I did not see a 1394 output on it. Looks like I'll be requesting a new box in a year!

Is there an easy way to switch the output format in the main Settings menu (without going to "More Settings"). I believe if you flip it to 480i only, then S-Video will work.

Why do I get the feeling that the line at 6pm is going to be way longer than an hour long :)

Walked in one hour ago to get my 8000HD and the wait was 1 hour. However, it seemed most of the people were there for other reasons. I asked the rep how many HD DVRs they had and she said plenty.

Hooked it up at home and seems to work great. Recorded an HD show and playback was quite impressive. I am using component connections and have yet to try DVI or the svid. However, why would you want to hook it up through svid when you can just use component for everything. I think the picture looks quite good through it - although dvi could be that much better...

Ill post more as i use it....

Friday 2-6pm Aug 27 appointment for me. $25 installation. Works for me. I merely don't want to have to give up anything -- the DVI and the simultaneous S-Video/DVI output, but the karma here would indicate that a trade-off is not unlikely. I will continue to track this thread and see what others who physically have this box say (and surely hope that it's positive!).

User's Guide, FYI (which does show a firewire port):

SA8000HD User's Guide (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/getting_started/4001025B.pdf)

- walkman

Originally posted by walkman666

User's Guide, FYI (which does show a firewire port):

SA8000HD User's Guide (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/getting_started/4001025B.pdf)

- walkman

Note that this guide - just like all of the SA guides out there - is for SARA software. Our boxes have Passport. So on pg. 9 at the bottom, where it describes how to choose the screen type, this will most likely not work.

For the 8000HD, can you get passthru via component out?

Also, is the TVGuide faster on the 8000HD. The guide is slow as hell on my Pioneer 3510 and I find it very painful to use. I usually wind up using the guide on my tivo. Any tivo owners out there? I find that the tivo software is by far, much better than the TW software. I really wish tivo would make a standalone HDTivo.

Originally posted by timewaster
For the 8000HD, can you get passthru via component out?

Also, is the TVGuide faster on the 8000HD. The guide is slow as hell on my Pioneer 3510 and I find it very painful to use. I usually wind up using the guide on my tivo. Any tivo owners out there? I find that the tivo software is by far, much better than the TW software. I really wish tivo would make a standalone HDTivo.

The guide on the SA3250 is significantly faster than the Pioneer 3510 - esp. on HD channels. It doesn't fill the whole screen on HD channels (just a 4:3 screen) and it appears that the 8000HD does the same thing.

Wow, it looks like my initial 8000 HD post set off a firestorm. Glad to hear that the CS rep was right. Turns out that the tech who came today thought it wasn't going to be out for a couple months (just had a meeting last week saying that). Does anyone know if folks living in Brooklyn or Queens can exchange their box at 23rd St.? I seem to recall having some trouble last time I did it because I was told I was on a different "head" or something like that. Will the SA 8000HD I pick up at 23rd St. work in Brooklyn?

dpc

Great news. Not that I care at this point; but has anyone a clue what the additional fee for the HD-DVR is? I think the SD-DVR is about 8.95 a month? See you there tonight in line!

Drew

$8.95 per month on top of whatever fees you are currenlty paying for whatever STB is correct. I inquired when making my appt. $25 installation on top of that for the lazy one's (or the one's who do not have that kinda time).

Any real confirmation yet on the activation of the DVI port?

Oh, dhy8386: I use svid and dvi because I find that the svid connection for the regular shows is better than the dvi connection, but of course, the dvi connection is better than the svid connection for hd shows. Or, perhaps I would have to make major adjustments in contrast, color, etc. hopping from regular & hd shows between the dvi input. Either way, that is why I use both svid and dvi connections, and not only 1 connection for all channels. If on the other hand, the SA8000HD component connections are as good as dvi for hd channels, and also as good as svid for regular channels, then I would do that, too (although the way my tv is currently connected, I really don't want to have to move the wall unit againt to get to the back of the tv -- I thought I was done with that!).

- walkman

The people at TWCNYC (phone) tell me that you need a work order before you can go to the location. Unfortunately, currently their systems give them an error message if they put in the request. Any insights?

Michael: Interesting. The woman this morning told me that while she couldn't create a work order for me, I *should* just go in with my HD box to replace. What's the story here? I don't want to wait in line in the morning and show up late for work for no reason at all.

Originally posted by stencil
Michael: Interesting. The woman this morning told me that while she couldn't create a work order for me, I *should* just go in with my HD box to replace. What's the story here? I don't want to wait in line in the morning and show up late for work for no reason at all.

Same for me as well. Although I was going to pick it up, the rep was going to make the changes on the computer and give me a confirmation code. But the computer was down.

I used s-vid through my PC as a scaler for SD. It looked a lot better than component on my Pio 3150. I will report back on how SD looks through component after I watch it a little more.

for everyone with time warner nyc , i have the sa 3250hd box so why can`t you people out there get one ? also i talked to the vp of programming for time warner reguarding the future of additional hd programming and what i got from was that there won`t be any future channels in the near future including espn which he says was in possible carraige agreement but talked about a bandwidth problem which i know nothing about so in total we get nothing coming , crapy hd boxs , and another large rate increase again most likely within 3-4 months , do i sound pissed ???????? my opinion we got about another 4-5 years before we have say 15-20 hd channels but right now we discovery to look forward to (WWWWWOOOOO) ej - out

Just put in my order. Will probably pick up the SA HD DVR box sometime tomorrow. I have my fingers crossed with respect to the DVI port!

Rock: So are the computers back up? You got a work order?

TWC never ceases to amaze.

Well the good news is you don't need a work order to go pick up an HD DVR. The bad news is they are out of stock and my work order was completely useless.

After waiting for the better part of an hour (took off work early so I would get there in plenty of time) I find out they are out of HD DVRs. I told the woman I had a confirmation # that was supposed to "guarantee" me one - at least that is what I was told on the phone.

She said - the people on the phone have no idea what kind of stock the offices carry and the confirmation # means nothing. Brilliant.

She also had no idea when they would get more in. Supposedly they only had 15 today.

Pretty pissed to say that least that I wasted my afternoon dealing with this crap.

I felt like I was in that seinfeld episode where he is trying to rent a car and they don't have one for him - "you guys are really good at taking the reservation, just not keeping the reservation - and that really is the most important part".

Eric: Thanks for saving my morning. No inventory control, I guess. Great. So I guess the rest of us just wait for the system to be...working...

:mad: $%&^*^ &%^*$%^ I HATE TWC!

Here's my tale: Forget about it in Queens for now, I do not know about Brooklyn. I left work a little early today after talking to customer service to confirm I could pick a box up at the Kissena Blvd., Flushing or Woodside location. The customer service rep I spoke to Eddie confirmed all I had to do was bring in my old box and exchange it for the new one.

I arrived at Kissena Blvd. at 4:20 walked into the first floor area, a rep approached me and asked if I was making a box exchange. With a big smile on my face I said, yes, I am here to pick up the newly available SA8000HD. With a blank stare only a TWC Employee can give, she said that we do not have a HD DVR and it won't be available until the end of the year. I told her I read about Manhattan and 23rd Street and I called customer service. She had me wait while she went to talk to someone on the phone. She came back and sent me to the 2nd floor customer service area. I waited a few minutes and then was greeted by the rudest customer service idiot I ever had the pleasure to speak to. Two CSR windows with six clueless TWC employees behind the glass with not one of them having a clue!

Not to rant too long, they emphatically stated we do not have it, we do not know when we are getting it, we are only supposed to get 10 when we get them, come back in a month maybe. I laughed and asked to see a supervisor and if they could please check the other locations, take my name, put me on a list, something. There wasn't a supervisor available, wouldn't take my name, nothing. It felt like that new Capital One David Spade commercial, NO, NO, NO! The best line was, that when you call customer service (718, 212 etc.) 358-0900 you are talking to someone in Canada and they really do not know what is going on, I said no sh*t, took my 3510HD box and left.

I got in my car and immediately called the customer service number and got a very nice rep by the name of Donna on the phone. I politely explained my situation to her and in the course of our conversation I asked her if she was in Canada, she said yes, so I proceeded to tell her that the local CSR here said that the Canadian CSR's were basically stupid. I explained to her, it was the other way around. Donna suggested I call Woodside at a different customer service number (718) 888-4000, well when you call that number it directs you to call (xxx) 358-0900 for customer service and to hold for administrative issues. I held and the person who answered was kind enough to transfer me to someone at the Woodside office by the name of Don. Don had no idea what I was talking about, but was nice enough to take my number and said he call me back. I wasn't expecting a call, but five minutes later Don called and said there are no boxes in Queens yet and you can't go to Manhattan to pick one up as it will not work with the Queens head end. He said to check back in a week and gave me his number to call him back next week.

I wouldn't have minded if they were just out of the box. I would understand. If you call Customer Service they will confirm that the box is available in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and Mount Vernon, but it is not. They would not take my name, put me on a list, offer me an appointment, nothing. I am sick of TWC and as much I don't want to deal with an OTA antenna for locals, it is time to start looking at Voom. If I am going to be aggravated, I might as well be aggravated and at least have content to be aggravated about.

Sorry for the long rant, but I've had enough of Time Warner's crap. I hope Anthony doesn't tell me to move again...:D

Jealous in Queens. Keep the reports coming.

Very bad news indeed. Why am I not surprised.... You went to the 23rd St location, right?

So, I guess the best thing to do is to pay the extra $25 and make an appointment. But then the rep might show up with the SD version...

Is there a way to call the 23rd St office?

Originally posted by michaelpatriceh
Very bad news indeed. Why am I not surprised.... You went to the 23rd St location, right?

So, I guess the best thing to do is to pay the extra $25 and make an appointment. But then the rep might show up with the SD version...

Is there a way to call the 23rd St office?

Yes I went to the 23rd st. office. Not sure if you can call them directly. AFAIK, the numbers on their website are always the main TWC #.

Originally posted by esj
for everyone with time warner nyc , i have the sa 3250hd box so why can`t you people out there get one ? also i talked to the vp of programming for time warner reguarding the future of additional hd programming and what i got from was that there won`t be any future channels in the near future including espn which he says was in possible carraige agreement but talked about a bandwidth problem which i know nothing about so in total we get nothing coming , crapy hd boxs , and another large rate increase again most likely within 3-4 months , do i sound pissed ???????? my opinion we got about another 4-5 years before we have say 15-20 hd channels but right now we discovery to look forward to (WWWWWOOOOO) ej - out

Except that just last week they moved the Metro channel out of analog spectrum and switched it to a digital channel, which should free up the bandwidth for at least one or two HD channels.

Not to mention that when I spoke with that very same VP a couple of months ago, he told me that there were a few HD channels under contract, and that the only thing standing between them and subscribers was the lack of bandwidth. The fact that he's still spouting that line after Metro moved means that he has absolutely no interest in being honest with those who are able to reach him.
-JMP

I arrived at TWC-23rd St. at 5:53 pm, waited about 45 minutes only to be told that they'd run out of the HD DVRs. The CSR told me that a fresh supply would arrive tomorrow morning. Right.

Later: I called TWC to set up an appointment to have a technician come and install the DVR. After I mentioned this afternoon's misadventure, the CSR offered to waive the $25 installation fee. I now have an appointment for Thursday. What do you think the chances are that the cable guy will show up with the HD version of the 8000?

Originally posted by Manatus
I arrived at TWC-23rd St. at 5:53 pm, waited about 45 minutes only to be told that they'd run out of the HD DVRs. The CSR told me that a fresh supply would arrive tomorrow morning. Right.

Later: I called TWC to set up an appointment to have a technician come and install the DVR. After I mentioned this afternoon's misadventure, the CSR offered to waive the $25 installation fee. I now have an appointment for Thursday. What do you think the chances are that the cable guy will show up with the HD version of the 8000?

I was probably leaving right as you were arriving. I got the second-to-last box. I was actually going to post from the 23d street center that there were only two left, but all of the computers were occupied.

Hopefully everyone has luck with the in-home installation.

Originally posted by Manatus
I arrived at TWC-23rd St. at 5:53 pm, waited about 45 minutes only to be told that they'd run out of the HD DVRs. The CSR told me that a fresh supply would arrive tomorrow morning. Right.

Later: I called TWC to set up an appointment to have a technician come and install the DVR. After I mentioned this afternoon's misadventure, the CSR offered to waive the $25 installation fee. I now have an appointment for Thursday. What do you think the chances are that the cable guy will show up with the HD version of the 8000?

Well that's exactly when I was there too - I guess we just missed it. If I weren't going away Weds for a week I would definitely do the home installation. Nuts to that - have them leave it with your doorman or drop it off somehow - why should you have to be home.

Pretty pissed.

Originally posted by jergans
I was probably leaving right as you were arriving. I got the second-to-last box. I was actually going to post from the 23d street center that there were only two left, but all of the computers were occupied.

Hopefully everyone has luck with the in-home installation.

So does DVI work? Dying to know. I won't even sweat it anymore if it doesn't.

So I called CS again and they told me that the activation codes aren't working, which is why they're not handing them out, and they're waiting for that to get going. Said they'd be calling me when ready in a day or so.

After a few more hours of watching, here is what I have found:

1. HD breaks up a lot more than with a normal box. Every now and then there is a line of digi-noise that goes across the top.

2. If you are watching live, it has more of a chance of breaking up - video and audio. If I rewind a second or two, it is fixed.

3. I cannot get s-vid to work and the box puts gray bars around the sides for 4x3. I prefer black bars b/c I have a projector with no screen, so the black looks like the wall.

4. The screensaver is different from the 8000. It is a gray screen with a small 4x3 image bouncing around.

Originally posted by dkan24
After a few more hours of watching, here is what I have found:

1. HD breaks up a lot more than with a normal box. Every now and then there is a line of digi-noise that goes across the top.


What exactly do you mean by "breaks up" - is the image not clear? are there a/v sync issues?

I don't think S-Video works on this box as long as you are in "HD Mode". As far as I can tell it seems like if you have 720p or 1080i selected as supported output formats, the box is in HD mode and S-Video is deactivated. If you manually switch the output format to 480i (and possibly 480p) I think the S-Video should work.

The Rams/Chiefs game looks fantastic on ABC, and so does Attack of the Clones on HBO.

Originally posted by EricScott
What exactly do you mean by "breaks up" - is the image not clear? are there a/v sync issues?




I get a line across the top about 1/5 the way down of some macro-blocking. It lasts for only a second or two. It has happened a good amount of times. Anyone else see this?

Can any of the other 14 people with the HD-DVR confirm what dkan24 is seeing; Is DVI working; and how is the on-screen response to the remote control commands. My current SA8000 is slow slow I have to wait 2 seconds for it to respond to my remote commands. My Pio HD box is too sensitive!

For those that got the box, congrat's and please continue posting first impressions.

And as far as metro choice being moved from Analog to Digital; I'm sure that the plan was always to phase in new HD channels when the time is right. There are complex contracts and payments with adding channels. Bob W. indicated that we wouldn't see anything until the 4th Q, I believe that the HD-DVR was suggested as late 4Q, so I'm inclined to be patient and give them the benefit of the doubt. not like I have a coice, but hey, the fact that 15 people have the HD DVR is as least a step in the right direction.

Oh, and I still want the Pio HD DVR box that I posted a week or so ago, but I guess I'll take the HD8000 when a new shippment comes in....

Drew

Ok, after reading all the posts I figured what the hell, I will give TWC a call @ 718.358.0900 and ask if they have the DVR available. The woman told me that they are available and I just need to take my current box down and exchange it. I told her that other people were getting this same information but when they showed up they were told that there were none available. I asked her to verify the model number of the box just to make sure that we were on the same page and talking about the same thing. She said it's the SA8010HD DVR and that they just became available yesterday. Hmmmmm, what should I do ??? I'm thinking about calling back 3 more times just to triple check. Maybe they can pull one out of the back and read the model number right off the box as proof that they do have them.

Jim,

Read my post above (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4243318#post4243318). When you call (718) 358-0900 you are talking to someone in Canada. Even if they can pull a box and read something off of it, it doesn't matter because it is not anywhere near here.

If you walk into Kissena Blvd. today and obtain a unit, please let me know as it would not surprise me after yesterday's debacle.

So being my impatient self, I got to 23rd st. really early today and watched them unload exactly 20 HD DVRs out of the truck (they also unloaded about 50 SD DVRs, despite the fact that there are stacks of them in the office - brilliant!) - so you better hurry if you want one.

Got the first one and brought it home real quick to test out DVI. And unfortunately, I couldn't get DVI to work on my Samsung DLP . With this TV I have gotten DVI to work on both the Pioneer 3510HD and the SA 3250 HD without any problems. I get audio but when the DVI cable is connected I get a blue screen on the Sammy and a message that says "No Signal". If I unplug the cable the msg on the Sammy changes to "Check Signal Cable" so the TV is clearly recognizing the connection, just not displaying anything.

If I hook up component, video works fine.

I will play around with it more later and hope others can chime in on this, but it appears DVI isn't working. Also haven't even tried hooking up S-Video to see how the whole component/s-video interaction works.

BTW - optical audio works, although I am already hearing dropouts, where the audio on HBO HD will go from 5.1 to DPLII on my receiver every frew seconds - pretty annoying.

That's all for now - off to work. I should be on for a good part of the day if people have other questions. Although I've literally spent 10 mins playing w/ this box, so not sure how helpful I can be.

One other thing to note - I set the output formats on the TV to 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i since my TV can handle all of them. On SD channels, the box is passing a 480p signal over component (not 480i). On HD channels, it is doing Pass Through - NBC was 1080i, ABC was 720p.

Before I waste my time I will call back and ask them how I can be sure they have the boxes since the person I am talking to is in Canada. There has to be a way to speak to someone who is physically located in the Kissena office.

Happy to confirm that the boxes are back at 23rd St. Picked mine up this morning. There are another 15 or so left. Better hurry...

Eric/Michael, you guys are pretty impressive with your dedication on picking these up. I'm sure the 15 will be gone by the time I get back into the city from work.......

Too bad about DVI; I'm assuming that there isn't some sort of menu option to enable this feature. I wonder why it would be disabled?

I'm curious to know how the PQ on the DVR'd HDTV signals come through on playback? I get a fair amount of pixelation when watching HDTV channels and I'm curious if the DVR picks those up or is better able to process them from the recording???

Thanks!

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
Too bad about DVI; I'm assuming that there isn't some sort of menu option to enable this feature. I wonder why it would be disabled?


The menus looked like a combination of the SD DVR menus and those on the other HD boxes (3250, 3510, etc). The only options I could find for outputs are:

1) Aspect Ratio (includes TV Type and Picture Settings - i.e. zoom, stretch, sidebar)

2) Output Format - where you can select the formats your tv supports - as mentioned above, i selected all four, yet SD appears to be output at 480p.


I'm curious to know how the PQ on the DVR'd HDTV signals come through on playback? I get a fair amount of pixelation when watching HDTV channels and I'm curious if the DVR picks those up or is better able to process them from the recording???

Thanks!

Drew

I set up a quick recording for the Olympics this afternoon to test out the quality (no good movies on HBO). Probably won't be the best test since we all know the NBC HD Olypmics feed is pretty pixelated.

Actually, I'm curious to see if the DVR'd version of the NBC Olympics broadcast is actually not pixelated. I've always assumed that the live feed has a difficult time being decoded by the HD boxes in real time, however, with the DVR'd recording I'm hoping that the full signal is recored and played back without the pixelation???? Just a theroy.

Can anyone comment on how the HD8000 stretch mode of SD channels compares with that of the Pio or the SA 3250?

Lastly (for now) someone said that TWC told them this was the SA HD8010 model number? Not that it matters much, but what is the model number on the actual box? 8000or 8010.

Thanks

Drew

Originally posted by drew138
Lastly (for now) someone said that TWC told them this was the SA HD8010 model number? Not that it matters much, but what is the model number on the actual box? 8000or 8010.

Thanks

Drew

I read in one of the other threads that apparently all 8000HDs are in fact 8010's. The SD boxes are 8000's. Don't think it matters at all.

Now that I think of it, I didn't take a good look, but I don't recall seeing firewire outs on this box.

Gah, that's annoying. The people on the phone told me that they would call me to pick it up, and that I shouldn't bother going down to the service center. How hard would it be for them to get this straight?

Greetings all. Is it official? Is the the HD DVR available for TWCNYC customers? I was speaking to a foreman who came to my house to install a CableCARD on 8/14 and he said they were delayed because of SW problems.

TIA....JL

The last email I'd received from Bob Watson at the end of May indicated a "late summer" release for the HD-DVR. So, he was right on the money with that call.

I emailed him yesterday, just to tell him that I'd picked mine up and that he was right on targer with his prediction. I also mentioned that he'd said that additional HD stations should be added in the fourth quarter and I asked if he had a status update.

Here's his reply: "Still 4Q on the additional HD channels. We hope to have them out earlier rather than later in 4Q."

I'm following up by asking which stations are likely to be added. I assume the two HDNets and INHD stations as well as TNT-HD, since those seem to be carried by other TWC affiliates.

I'm also going to ask about ESPN-HD. I don't expect a response on that issue since it's a national TWC-Disney issue, rather than a local TWCNYC issue.

I'll keep you posted.

Originally posted by SRFast
Greetings all. Is it official? Is the the HD DVR available for TWCNYC customers? I was speaking to a foreman who came to my house to install a CableCARD on 8/14 and he said they were delayed because of SW problems.

TIA....JL

A number of people, including myself, have them. So I guess it is official. The real question is, is it ready for primetime or are there going to be a million glitches to deal with?

Thanks Eric. What connections work with this box? My SA-8000 is connected via S-Video to my HDTV. Will this still work? If not, what is the recommended setup to maximize PQ? What cables will I need to get?

BTW, I just got off the phone with TWCNYC CS and was told that I would need to have a tech install the HD DVR. Is this the case?

TIA....JL

Tomorrow I'm trading my Pioneer HD box for the 8000HD. I'm a bit nervous about the swap: the Pioneer box looks great with my ED Panasonic plasma (I use composite out for SD programming, and component for HD). SD programming is much better than I thought it would be with this setup, and HD is nearly perfect.

I don't want to sacrifice PQ if the 8000HD has as many problems as I've read about. Anyone out there regret swapping? Should I go ahead with it? I do like the idea of recording select HD movies from HBO and Showtime, plus upcoming NFL games...

Originally posted by gregeas
Tomorrow I'm trading my Pioneer HD box for the 8000HD. I'm a bit nervous about the swap: the Pioneer box looks great with my ED Panasonic plasma (I use composite out for SD programming, and component for HD). SD programming is much better than I thought it would be with this setup.

I don't want to sacrifice PQ if the 8000HD has as many problems as I've read about. Anyone out there regret swapping? So I go ahead with it? I do like the idea of recording HD movies from HBO and Showtime, plus upcoming NFL games...

One factor to be weighed before swapping a Pioneer STB for the HD-DVR is the apparent decision by TWC to discontinue its use of Pioneer boxes (possibly because Pioneer is exiting that line of business) and the question of what HD-STB would be available if the DVR doesn't work out. I, for one, doubt that I'd be happy with the SA3250, with its gray-only sidebars and dumbed-down menu of viewer options.

Originally posted by gregeas
Tomorrow I'm trading my Pioneer HD box for the 8000HD. I'm a bit nervous about the swap: the Pioneer box looks great with my ED Panasonic plasma (I use composite out for SD programming, and component for HD). SD programming is much better than I thought it would be with this setup, and HD is nearly perfect.

I don't want to sacrifice PQ if the 8000HD has as many problems as I've read about. Anyone out there regret swapping? Should I go ahead with it? I do like the idea of recording select HD movies from HBO and Showtime, plus upcoming NFL games...

Just curious, did you get a work order or are you just going to show up in the morning?

Originally posted by SRFast
Thanks Eric. What connections work with this box? My SA-8000 is connected via S-Video to my HDTV. Will this still work? If not, what is the recommended setup to maximize PQ? What cables will I need to get?

BTW, I just got off the phone with TWCNYC CS and was told that I would need to have a tech install the HD DVR. Is this the case?

TIA....JL

SRFast

Haven't had much time to fidget with the box. What I do know is this - Component video works; DVI doesn't. Optical audio works; don't know about coaxial audio. Haven't tried S-Video.

From what I have read on some of these massive 8000HD threads is that the box can either be in SD mode (480i) or HD mode (480p, 720p, 1080i) but not both (like the 3250). If you are in HD mode, S-Video will NOT work - looks like only Component will. It remains to be seen if the SD PQ is decent over component (hopefully comparable to S-Video on the SD8000). For me, this is the big question as I still watch a good amount of SD. I have an SD8000, which provides excellent PQ over S-Video and I was hoping the 8000HD would totally replace it. I may still keep my 3250HD for super crisp HD if I am unhappy with the HD quality that this box provides over Component.

As I said, I haven't hooked up S-Video yet, but with Component hooked up, I set the Output format options to 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i but noticed that SD channels, which should be 480i, are actually output at 480p. This seems consistent with the SD vs. HD mode the box has to be in.

As far as cables go - the box I received included a set of component cables as well as standard rca audio cables. They are probably not the best quality so if you are going to use Component, you may want to get a better set of component cables.

As far as the tech install goes, you can only do a self install if you trade in an existing HD box. If all you have is a SD DVR, they will most likely need to install the HD DVR for you. If you already have an HD box, just bring it in and swap it for the HD DVR and you are all set.

Originally posted by stencil
Just curious, did you get a work order or are you just going to show up in the morning?

Don't worry about the work order. They are useless if you are doing a self install b/c the people on 23rd st. know nothing about them. It's first come first serve in terms of trade ins there - the work order is irrelevant, as I found out yesterday afternoon.

I'm super busy right now, so I'm paying $25 to have TW drop off the box at my apt tomorrow. Not much of a price difference compared to taking a taxi to 23rd St and back.

Just returned from the 23rd St. location. I traded in the good old Pio for the HD DVR. I got number 13 of the 20 delivered this morning, so as of about 11:25am, there were seven left. Just enough to make you want to go down on your lunch break, but just few enough so that the last one goes to the guy before you in line. Ugh!

Anyway, I had a work order. She didn't even look at it - she had it all on her computer, and pulled my account using the serial number on my old HD box.

Good luck to all! Hopefully this thing works....

So from what I can tell, they are getting anywhere from 20-25 HD DVRs per day? Is this correct? If someone goes in tomorrow morning to pick one up, can you post whether or not they had new inventory?

Currently, I'm using the 3100HD, and feeding the component out to my projector, and the s-video to my SDTV--this arrangement works beautifully. Based on the 8000HD's manual, it seems that this won't work anymore--can anyone think of any workarounds other than getting 2 boxes?

Originally posted by DJ Frustration
So from what I can tell, they are getting anywhere from 20-25 HD DVRs per day? Is this correct? If someone goes in tomorrow morning to pick one up, can you post whether or not they had new inventory?

Seems to be about right. The only reason I knew exactly how many they had is because I stood there watching them unload the truck in the morning - there were exactly 20.

Their inventory control is horrible (as you would expect). Clearly they have a lot of these boxes somewhere yet the fill 3/4 of their delivery van w/ SD DVRs and cable modems - both of which are piled almost to the ceiling of the office. Don't understand why they don't bring 100 of the HD DVRs to the office - being out of stock is a bad thing, not a good thing - not sure they understand that.

has anyone confirmed whether or not the 8000HD is available from the queens service center (the one near the BQE)?

few more observations/answers:

1. The model number on the front does say 8000HD (not 8010)

2. There are no 1394 outputs

3. Coaxial digital works very well. Just like the old boxes, it always outputs Dolby Digital - 2.0 when it is not 5.1.

4. s-vid does not work if you have any HD formats turned on. I have not tried turning off HD to see if s-vid will work. Anyone confirm this yet?

5. I think SD over component looks better than it did on the 3150. SD over component was unwatchable on the 3150, it is very much watchable on the 8000HD. Not as good as s-vid on the 3150 (but I was using a scaler with that)

I have the SA 8000 and a tech visit is required if I want to upgrade to the SA-8000HD. I was willing to pay the $25, but could not get an appointment to fit my schedule so I decided to replace the SA 8000 with the self install HD STB. I will pick it up tonight and use it for a few days. I will contact TWCNYC later this week and arrange to swap the HD STB for the SA 8000HD on Saturday morning. I decided to take this upgrade path because it allows me to do the self install option. The payment centers are open to 19:00 weeknights and part of the day on Saturday which is more convenient for me.

Regards....JL

Originally posted by dkan24
few more observations/answers:

5. I think SD over component looks better than it did on the 3150. SD over component was unwatchable on the 3150, it is very much watchable on the 8000HD. Not as good as s-vid on the 3150 (but I was using a scaler with that)

dkan24

Just a little confused about which box you are comparing ti the 8000HD: the Pioneer 3510HD, the Scientific Atlanta 3250HD or the Scientific Atlanta 3100HD? Wasn't aware of a 3150HD.

I was able to get the 8000hd, and unfortunately there was no manual in the box. I am going back to 23rd to try and pick it up.
If they do not have any I had a question...is it possible to set up stretch modes for the non-hd channels, and have the HD channels broadcast in their correct ratios? It seems odd that if I want everything to fit my tv stretched to 16x9 with out gray sidelines, that I am also forced to zoom in on HD. I would like to stretch just channels 1-699 say, and watch 701-713 in their natural ratios. Or must I re-change my aspect ratios, depending on the channel?
I want to thank those in this forum who made me aware the DVR was out. On an aside, I went to yahoo yellow pages, and looked up time warner. Call 212-598-7200. If you ask about the HD DVR you will be transfered to a manager. I was, she told me how many boxes were left (at that time 12) and when I said I could be there in an hour, she said she would hold it for me. Not 100% sure she did, but when I got there, 8 were left, so there was no problem. Good luck in getting one. I am excited to experiment later.

So, it seems that DVI is not active, contrary to what I was told over the phone by a technician ('s supervisor). Bummer. What I would like to know, from those using the new SA8000HD box is whether:

1.) the HD pic quality (in component) of the SA8000HD is equal to or greater than your previous non-DVR HD box (please specify previous HD box)?

2.) the pic quality over component for SD channels is equal to or greater than the picture you had with your old box (please specify what connection you used for SD reception; e.g. s-video, component, dvi).

3.) you feel that the advantages of having HD-DVR capability on the new box outweigh any percveived disadvantages of the new box (if you have found any disadvantages)? In other words, is it a net "gain" to have made this trade to the new SA8000HD?

thx, - walkman

For the all the experts: I have a boat load of high quality RCA cables sitting around and would like to use these instead of the cables included in the HD STB carton. Assuming I connect the cables correctly, can I use my cables? I assume I am getting the Pioneer STB that does not support S-Video. Correct?

TIA....JL

Originally posted by Mattdoc
I was able to get the 8000hd, and unfortunately there was no manual in the box. I am going back to 23rd to try and pick it up.


The manual that comes w/ the 8000HD is useless - all of the instructions are for the SARA software and our boxes use Passport software. Not sure about your stretch mode question. Personally I prefer to do stretching (which I rarely do anyway) through my TV. That way if I leave my Samsung in "Wide", 4:3 gets stretched and 16:9 comes in as is.

Originally posted by walkman666
So, it seems that DVI is not active, contrary to what I was told over the phone by a technician ('s supervisor). Bummer. What I would like to know, from those using the new SA8000HD box is whether:

1.) the HD pic quality (in component) of the SA8000HD is equal to or greater than your previous non-DVR HD box (please specify previous HD box)?

2.) the pic quality over component for SD channels is equal to or greater than the picture you had with your old box (please specify what connection you used for SD reception; e.g. s-video, component, dvi).

3.) you feel that the advantages of having HD-DVR capability on the new box outweigh any percveived disadvantages of the new box (if you have found any disadvantages)? In other words, is it a net "gain" to have made this trade to the new SA8000HD?

thx, - walkman

This is exactly what I will try to figure out - may take a little bit of time though. However, for the time being (until DVI is active) I will settle for the 8000HD being a suitable replacement for my 8000SD DVR - in other words, acceptable SD viewing and recording; then the HD recording capabilities would simply be a bonus to my previous setup. I will likely hold onto my 3250HD box since I don't think I will ever be satisfied w/ HD over component on the 8000HD after seeing how crystal clear the HD on my 3250 over DVI is.

Eric,
I too like to stretch through my tv, a Toshiba 57inch rear projector. Sadly my tv locks in anything greater than 480i. I used to stretch either RCA or S-Video, but since both are inactive on the 8000hd when I use component cables, I am stuck with watching whatever is broadcast in the cable box's stretch modes. I may be able to stretch recordings though, using the "vcr dump" port. I have that hooked up, but it does not seem to broadcast live over it.
Thanks,
Matt

Has anyone been able to confirm that you get 20hrs of HD on it?
I remeber reading that it takes 20gigs to store 1 hr of HD. 160Gigs => 8 hrs of HD. But I'm not totally sure.

Originally posted by walkman666
So, it seems that DVI is not active, contrary to what I was told over the phone by a technician ('s supervisor). Bummer. What I would like to know, from those using the new SA8000HD box is whether:

1.) the HD pic quality (in component) of the SA8000HD is equal to or greater than your previous non-DVR HD box (please specify previous HD box)?

2.) the pic quality over component for SD channels is equal to or greater than the picture you had with your old box (please specify what connection you used for SD reception; e.g. s-video, component, dvi).

3.) you feel that the advantages of having HD-DVR capability on the new box outweigh any percveived disadvantages of the new box (if you have found any disadvantages)? In other words, is it a net "gain" to have made this trade to the new SA8000HD?

thx, - walkman

1.) the HD pic quality (in component) of the SA8000HD is equal to or greater than your previous non-DVR HD box (please specify previous HD box)?

I had the Pioneer 3510HD and I have a Sammy 467hln DLP. The HD quality is close. I think the 720p (ABC) quality is nearly identical. The 1080i quality may be a bit softer, but not too much. Of course, this is based only on flipping channels last night (Monday night football for 720p, Attack of the Clones for 1080i).

2.) the pic quality over component for SD channels is equal to or greater than the picture you had with your old box (please specify what connection you used for SD reception; e.g. s-video, component, dvi).

I used component for SD with the Pioneer box and use component with the HD-DVR. I think the SD quality is BETTER with the SA8000HD. Watching the Olympics (non-HD) and other SD channels, the quality seemed better than what I got out of the Pioneer. I don't think SD looks great on a Sammy DLP period, but it looks better out of the SA8000HD.

(For the record, I used the S-video out of the Pioneer for Tivo. I'd also tested DVI. In all cases, I didn't notice much of an improvement in SD quality over using component. There was some improvement, but nothing immense).

3.) you feel that the advantages of having HD-DVR capability on the new box outweigh any percveived disadvantages of the new box (if you have found any disadvantages)? In other words, is it a net "gain" to have made this trade to the new SA8000HD?

This is it for me. I rarely get out of work before 8 pm, and I often work past 10. I love HD, but I hated the "see it live or miss it in HD" factor that I had to deal with before today. The SA8000HD is not perfect. But for me it's a HUGE thing to be able to timeshift HD content. Plus, the dual tuner is very convenient.

I understand the concerns people have about the box, but the ability to finally record/timeshift HD content is such a huge advantage, I don't see how people can pass up this box (unless they have an HD-VHS recorder). There's no other choice at this time. When/if Tivo comes out with a cablecard compatible HD-DVR, I'd be willing to pay for it. But until that happens, I'm happy with the SA8000HD.

Originally posted by jergans

I had the Pioneer 3510HD and I have a Sammy 467hln DLP. The HD quality is close. I think the 720p (ABC) quality is nearly identical. The 1080i quality may be a bit softer, but not too much. Of course, this is based only on flipping channels last night (Monday night football for 720p, Attack of the Clones for 1080i).


I'm assuming you were comparing component on the 8000HD to component on the 3510? How would you say component on the 8000HD compares to DVI on the 3510 (assuming you used this)? For those of us who prefer DVI to component, this allows us to compare the best available connections on each box.

On my Samsung HLP5063 I have always used DVI (on my Pioneer 3510 and my SA 3250) - I personally preferred it to Component. I know that many people prefer component to dvi, however.

I agree - the day they release a cablecard HD Tivo, I am done. As a Tivo lover for years with RCN (since they didn't have a DVR alternative), it pains me that I barely use my SA Tivo since I switched to Time Warner - it's not even connected to any sort of cable; I just use it for Home Media Option). The Sci Atlanta DVR's hardware is just far superior to Tivo for those who care about quality audio and video, making the software shortcomings more than manageable (in general I have been very pleased with the SA DVR's software, other than the ability to search for shows by title - so tedious!!!).

jergans, thanks mucho for answering my questions so clearly. This is the type of data I am seeking. Very helpful. I know it's early days yet, so it might take time for other folks to answer.

For me, I don't see myself doing a lot of recording, either HD or SD, but I want the capability when I need it. I usually watch what is on, or go with on-demand options, but this is a tool/toy that is obviously worth having if there are no noticeable trade-offs. So, while the HD recording advantages are not so powerful based on my viewing habits and preferences, I would like a recorder, without sacrificing pic quality. If that is the case here with the SA800HD (over my current, Pioneer 3510HD, the same one you, jergans, had), then I'm going to make the switch.

thx again, - walkman

Got my SA 8000 HD hooked up earlier. Everything is ok, but no DVI.

ARGH!!!

Otherwise, everything seems to be on par with the SA 3250 I just returned.

What kind of component cables are people using for these DVRs? I currently am just using the cables it came with, which seem decent, but I'm sure aren't great. Any recommendations for a reasonable component cable. I have found Acoustic Research to be decent.

Originally posted by EricScott
What kind of component cables are people using for these DVRs? I currently am just using the cables it came with, which seem decent, but I'm sure aren't great. Any recommendations for a reasonable component cable. I have found Acoustic Research to be decent.

Back before I switched from component to DVI, I was having a problem with electrical interference and ordered a pair of well-made and -shielded component cables from Blue Jeans Cable (LINK (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/component/index.htm) ). The cables were fairly priced and the company a pleasure to deal with.

Originally posted by EricScott
I'm assuming you were comparing component on the 8000HD to component on the 3510? How would you say component on the 8000HD compares to DVI on the 3510 (assuming you used this)? For those of us who prefer DVI to component, this allows us to compare the best available connections on each box.

On my Samsung HLP5063 I have always used DVI (on my Pioneer 3510 and my SA 3250) - I personally preferred it to Component. I know that many people prefer component to dvi, however.

I agree - the day they release a cablecard HD Tivo, I am done. As a Tivo lover for years with RCN (since they didn't have a DVR alternative), it pains me that I barely use my SA Tivo since I switched to Time Warner - it's not even connected to any sort of cable; I just use it for Home Media Option). The Sci Atlanta DVR's hardware is just far superior to Tivo for those who care about quality audio and video, making the software shortcomings more than manageable (in general I have been very pleased with the SA DVR's software, other than the ability to search for shows by title - so tedious!!!).

I didn't notice a huge improvement (or any improvement 99% of the time) over DVI with the Pioneer box, so I decided to stick with component (I use DVI with my DVD player). So I don't think I'm much help there.

I use component cables from pacificcable.com. very cheap and will give probably same results as a monster cable.

oh, i just called TWC and they "say" that the DVI port on the SA 8000 HD will be enabled soon...once they get all the kinks worked out...so we'll just see, I guess.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that component could be the best single output solution for the 8000HD boxes. Given that you can't output S-Video and DVI at the same time and the fact that SD over DVI tends to look pretty bad, component may be a good compromise. Who knows. I'll obviously try DVI if and when they enable it, but if the SD quality is anything like it was on the 3510 or 3250 I don't think I will be able to use that as my sole SD output.

Has anyone on Staten Island called to see if the HD-DVR is available on SI? I tried calling but was on perpetual hold so I gave up.

Does anybody know if there are any left at the 23rd street office and what time they open in the morning? I've been trying ot call them, but of course the line is busy and the one time I got through the machine hung up on me 3 minutes into their menu system.

Thanks,
Jason

I use component cables for my dvd players from RAM Electronics. They are well made, and are about $30-$40 depending on length. I tried pacificcable, but found them to be junk. Upon connection, one end of the RCA plug fell off and the cable would not work. Very cheaply made compared to RAMelectronics.net.

RAM Electronics component video cables (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/comp-video.html#av)

- walkman

Originally posted by jasonDono
Does anybody know if there are any left at the 23rd street office and what time they open in the morning? I've been trying ot call them, but of course the line is busy and the one time I got through the machine hung up on me 3 minutes into their menu system.

Thanks,
Jason

They open at 8am. It seems that they are getting about 15-20 new boxes each day. If you get there early I'm sure you'll get one.

I just got a call from a Customer Service Rep. in Queens. Kissena Blvd., Flushing has 8, well 7, because they are holding one for me. Apparently the guy from Woodside I spoke to yesterday passed the info along and I just got a call. I will make it over there before 7.

Since the DVI is not activated, I will leave well enough alone and leave the 3510 in place in the living room connected to my NEC 61XM2/S Plasma for the time being and replace my second 3510 in the bedroom with the SA8000HD. I will try it with my Samsun LTN-226W LCD and let you know how it goes.

While I was on the phone I asked if I could trade my SA8000 SD-DVR instead and they said no. HD for HD only right now.

FYI, my wife just picked up the HD DVR at the service center in Brooklyn (5th Ave. & 27th St.). She said there was no one in there (at 6:30) and that they had plenty of boxes.

dpc

Does the HD PRV do PiP? How so with HD?

Drew

I went to the TWC payment center to swap an SA 8000 DVR for a HD STB box and lucked out. The CS rep saw that I had the SA 8000 and gave me the SA 8000HD even though it is against their policy. TWC only allows self install for exisiting HD STB users, but they gave me the SA 8000HD anyway. I really appreciated it because it save me a trip back to TWC to swap the HD STB for the SA 8000HD (see my earlier post). I was out of there in 10 minutes which added to the joy.

I've set up the box, but when I switch from an HD channel to a non HD channel, the transition is not smooth. Is there any setting to resolve this?

Will replacing the provided composite video cable with better cables improve the PQ?

TIA...JL

Originally posted by EricScott
I agree - the day they release a cablecard HD Tivo, I am done. As a Tivo lover for years with RCN (since they didn't have a DVR alternative), it pains me that I barely use my SA Tivo since I switched to Time Warner - it's not even connected to any sort of cable; I just use it for Home Media Option). The Sci Atlanta DVR's hardware is just far superior to Tivo for those who care about quality audio and video, making the software shortcomings more than manageable (in general I have been very pleased with the SA DVR's software, other than the ability to search for shows by title - so tedious!!!).

For those of us who are already Tivo users but have never used one of the cable-box based DVRs, can anyone give a description of the interface? As a Tivo user, which missing features are going to drive me completely nuts?

Also, the SA site doesn't seem to list the specs for the 8000. Can anyone who's gotten the box tell me what the physical size of the box is? I'm trying to figure out whether or not I'll have to do some significant rearranging of components in order to make it fit...
-JMP

The transition from HD to SD is not smooth b/c it is changing output formats - 1080i to 480i. Any time you switch, it gives a gray screen and takes longer.

I found a bug as well - when you hit swap on PIP it takes you back to the beginning of the session for that channel, instead of taking you to where it should be.

The PIP is a 4x3 box that only goes within the 4x3 part of the screen. If you have an HD show in the PIP, then it is distorted instead of letterboxed.

That bug was discovered in other forums.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4182023#post4182023

TWC is definitely aware of it and the word is that they are releasing a software patch to fix it (at least they are in Charlotte, we'll see about NYC)

good to know that it is being worked on. Hopefully we will get that fix too. It does not do that on the 8000.

I just picked up the SA 8000HD and have a question regarding the aspect ratio setting. The default setting is 1080i with additional settings of 720p, 480i and 480p. Is there a need to change this setting? My HDTV supports all the settings. I do not watch DVDs, just the TWC broadcast stuff, so is there a benefit/reason for selecting the "480" settings? BTW, if I choose just one setting, which is perferable, 180i or 720p? FYI: I own a Mitsu WD-52525 DLP set.

TIA.....JL

Originally posted by SRFast
I just picked up the SA 8000HD and have a question regarding the aspect ratio setting. The default setting is 1080i with additional settings of 720p, 480i and 480p. Is there a need to change this setting? My HDTV supports all the settings. I do not watch DVDs, just the TWC broadcast stuff, so is there a benefit/reason for selecting the "480" settings? BTW, if I choose just one setting, which is perferable, 180i or 720p? FYI: I own a Mitsu WD-52525 DLP set.

TIA.....JL

This all depends on whether the box or your DLP does a better job scaling the image. I would be willing to bet that your Mitsu does a far better job than the STB (I know my Sammy DLP does), so you will want to select 480p, 720p and 1080i and let the Mistu scale it to 720p (it's native resolution). 480i is irrelevant as far as I can tell b/c the S-Video is disabled while using Component and all SD programs are actually sent as 480p to the TV.

It's hard to say which one you should pick if you could only choose one. Since most HD channels are 1080i, that would probably look best. But then all SD is scaled to 1080i, which will likely look like crap. It all depends on your viewing habits/personal preferences.

I think your best bet is to select all 3 and let the Mitsu do the heavy lifting.

Had some time to play with the HD DVR last night and here are my initial thoughts (btw - was anyone else's internet connection down last night?):

SD:
1) Quality over component is definitely not as good as it was over S-Video on my 8000SD DVR but not too bad - definitely watchable.

2) Gray pillar boxes on every channel are driving me crazy - this really may be the deal breaker for me. I watch a fair amount of SD and my DLP has a black bezel. I hate stretch modes so when watching a 4:3 SD program on my 8000SD it had nice black pillar boxes that just blended into the bezel. These stupid gray pillar boxes are really noticeable and distracting. I know why they are gray - less burn in for plasma owners - but I don't own a plasma. I didn't buy one specifically b/c I was worried about burn in. There should be a way to change the color of the pillar boxes (in SARA there is an option)

HD:
1) Overall HD quality is pretty decent. Definitely not as crisp or vibrant as my SA3250 over DVI but pretty good.

2) Time shifting HD works fine - the image is not distorted in any way.

General:
1) Changing channels is definitely choppy b/c the box has to adjust the aspect ratio of each channel. Takes signficantly longer than on either the 8000SD or the 3250HD.

2) The audio takes a while to kick in and is also pretty choppy. When DD5.1 comes in, there is an initial popping sound which is pretty annoying.

3) The interface is identical, as far as I can tell, to the 8000SD and is fairly responsive - the guide comes up quickly, is easy to navigate, etc (not any better or worse than my 8000SD or 3250HD).

Conclusion:
I don't have one yet. Each of my previous boxes was better at their respective jobs than this one is. SD looked better and channel changing was smoother on the 8000SD. HD looked crisper and overall was just better on the 3250HD. I think I've decided for sure that I am going to keep the 3250HD in addition to one of the DVRs - once you've seen how good that HD looks, it's tough to settle for the HD that this box outputs. The only question is whehter or not to keep the SD DVR or this HD DVR. And honestly the gray pillar box issue may seal the deal for me. It is incredibly annoying. I theoretically could keep the HD DVR and watch SD over S-Video on the 3250HD but that box has gray pillar boxes as well. Never really cared b/c I wasn't using it for SD before. For those of you with Pioneer HD boxes that watch a fair amount of SD (Pioneer does the black pillar boxes), I would seriously think twice before trading those in for one of these. As Manatus pointed out earlier - you may not be able to get them back if you trade them in (like I did).

Overall I am somewhat disappointed but hopeful that the product will improve. I am definitely going to test this box more extensively when I return from vacation next week.

Great review EricScott. Thanks very much. From what I read in your post #1696, this box has some drawbacks in picture quality compared to what you had in the past. For my needs, that's a problem, as I am not likely going to use a recorder too frequently. I may hold off for now.

thx, walkman

Originally posted by SRFast
I just picked up the SA 8000HD and have a question regarding the aspect ratio setting. The default setting is 1080i with additional settings of 720p, 480i and 480p. Is there a need to change this setting? My HDTV supports all the settings. I do not watch DVDs, just the TWC broadcast stuff, so is there a benefit/reason for selecting the "480" settings? BTW, if I choose just one setting, which is perferable, 180i or 720p? FYI: I own a Mitsu WD-52525 DLP set.

TIA.....JL

Which settings work best with your equipment and viewing habits is something that's best determined by you after experimenting with all the variables. Your TV's "native resolution" is 720p (meaning that at some point along the signal path, all other formats must be converted --"scaled"-- to 720p). There is a widely-held view that HDTVs have better scalers than do set-top boxes (though this may just reflect pride of ownership of a very expensive TV and a prejudice that any equipment provided by a loathed cable company is probably junk).

This is what the manufacturer (Samsung) of my own 720p DLP TV has to say on this subject: "Samsung has always maintained that the best picture quality can be realized only when the format selection and scaling is performed prior to conversion to analog component video. This is why Samsung’s HD Receivers have always been designed to select a display format that matches the HDTV monitor’s format. Separately, the Samsung line of HD receivers can be set up to render SD channels in either wide, panorama or native 4:3 picture formats prior to the being sent to the TV. This is the ideal solution because the conversion is performed prior to analog conversion when using Component Video and functionally, it addresses the DVI connection too." (Full text here (http://www.digiupdate.com/P001_Interview_Steve_Panosian_HLNW1.html)).

That reasoning would lead to configuring the 8000HD to output only 720p. Those who disagree with that view would probably prefer to put the DVR in "pass-through" mode (i.e., 480i, 720p and 1080i). The one thing that most would probably agree about is that leaving the DVR in its default 1080i-only mode is not a good choice.

Hm. Install appointment this afternoon for the 8000HD is this afternoon. Having some second thoughts: the output of my Pioneer box to my ED plasma is pretty good for both HD and SD. No complaints.

Will I regret losing the Pioneer box?

gregeas, I feel the way you do (concerned about giving up quality). I think the move to the new box is predicated on the need for the recorder. If you think you'll be using the recorder a lot, then the advantages are clear. If, like me, you'd use the recorder once in a while, then I'm considering waiting until I "hear" (i.e. read, through this most useful forum), that it's a win-win situation.

- walkman

Originally posted by gregeas
Will I regret losing the Pioneer box?

Wouldn't it be nice if TWCNYC could be persuaded to let us have those boxes back if the 8000HD disappoints? While I'd probably be willing to revert from DVI to component until the 8000's DVI is activated, those gray side-bars are another matter. If the only replacement for a Pioneer is the SA3250HD (also with gray side-bars), I'm going to be reluctant to try out the DVR.

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I have to admit that I'm loving my PIO box and the PQ is great through DVI.

My HDTV doesn't allow me to perform any "stretch" features when viewing through either the DVI or Component HD connections, therefore, it is critical that the 8000HD will stretch the SD channels. The Pio box does this reasonably well. My older SA3100 forced me to switch between a SD connection and an HD connection since I (unlike Eric) dislike watching SD with pillar bars.

Question: Does the SA8000HD allow the user to stretch the SD channels like the Pio box does?

I'm thinking about holding out on the HD-DVR until the DVI is active and the first software fix is issues. I'm not sure that I can hold out.

Drew

And yes, my Internet connection was down last night and required my cable modem to be power cycled twice before I was able to get a working signal. They may have sent down a new software upgrade to the cable modem.????

I set up my new HD DVR last night and had some similar concerns to Eric, but the overall benefit of timeshifting and skipping commercials, and dual-tuner design, IMHO makes the HD DVR a significant upgrade:

My previous box was the Pioneer 3150HD...

-PQ: SD channels are a significant upgrade in picture quality from the Pioneer. Much much better on my set. HD is definitely a noticeable drop in quality, but still looks better than SD. I'm hoping that this will improve once the DVI becomes active and I can use that port, but overall this is a disappointment.

-Guide: Much better than on Pioneer. Significantly smoother changing channels, particularly going from SD to HD or vice versa. Also, much smoother when going in to the guide on an HD channel.

Re: Eric, the Grey Pillar bars - I had the same problem, and was also concerned about burn-in. What worked for me was to set the aspect ratio to 16:9, and put it in "stretch" mode on the box. Also make sure that you've got 480i/480p outputs enabled.

So, when my Sony is in 'full' wide mode (tuned to an SD channel), the image fills the entire screen but is stretched, per the box. No pillar bars. However I can adjust the wide mode so that it is in "wide zoom" and it's all good with me. Or, if I put the Sony into "Normal" mode, it squishes the stretched image, making it look correct, and gives me black pillar bars. Hope that helps.

All in all, despite the loss in picture quality on HD (which I'm hoping will be at least helped by a move to DVI), the box is *well worth it* given the dramatic upgrade and control it gives you over just watching normal TV.

And yes, my Internet was down last night too. Hoping it'll be back by now.

Good post #1703 randymac. More data to consider the move. Your post indicates that there are some advantages in pic quality (the upgrade in std def channels), but also some disadvantages in pic quality (HD). On the one hand, I watch mostly SD, but I just bought an HDTV to be able to enjoy the fabulous HD quality. If that's a downgrade, then that seems to defeat the purpose. If, as you say, the HD pic may be improved with the activation of the DVI port, then fine, but that would have to also come without the sacrifice of a decrement in quality in SD if the S-video port cannot be simultaneously used (because I use both, S-Video for SD and DVI for HD on my Pioneer 3510, as that seems to optimize pic quality for both std and high def channels).

We both had (have) the same old box, Pioneer 3510, but what connections (s-vid, component, dvi) did you use in the past for standard def and high def channels? -- as a basis for comparison with your review of your current upgrade in SD quality/downgrade in HD quality.

My internet was spotty last night, but when I pulled the power plug and waited 10 seconds, it was back up (7-11pm).

thx again, - walkman

I was using DVI for both HD and SD. I found that it delivered superior quality over S-Video (which caused significant push in red, green colors), and I needed my component outputs for DVD player and XBOX.

So yes, my comparison is somewhat flawed. But, given that DVI is not active and could potentially be inactive for a while, I can only consider what I can actually get for the comparison, whether on DVI or component.

That said, I'm also going to pick up some higher-quality cables. I'm using TWC's old component cables that came with the Pioneer (which seem to be better quality than the crap that came with the HD DVR), but I think I may benefit from an upgrade in this department as well. I'll let you know how it turns out.

The component cables TWC provides are crap. When I upgraded, it made a huge difference.

Thanks again, randymac88. That's helpful information. So, basically, you were DVI all the way on the old and are now Component all the way on the new. No flaws in your comparison -- you use what is available to you (us) which is more of an accurate comparison (it's not an experimental research design for publication!). Cool, thanks. I'd be going component all the way around as well, then, given the lack of DVI and S-Video. Sooo, actually, your comparison, for me, is exactly what I was looking for:

you compared the old Pioneer 3510, which is what I have, using DVI for HD (which is what I have) to component on the new SA800HD. The only difference in our set-up's is that I am using S-Video for SD on your old Pioneer 3510, and you used DVI (I have that option, but find the S-Video to be superior, interesting...).

As I stated earlier, I would strongly suggest component cables from Ram Electronics.net (local guys in NJ, too).

- walkman

Originally posted by Manatus
Which settings work best with your equipment and viewing habits is something that's best determined by you after experimenting with all the variables. Your TV's "native resolution" is 720p (meaning that at some point along the signal path, all other formats must be converted --"scaled"-- to 720p). There is a widely-held view that HDTVs have better scalers than do set-top boxes (though this may just reflect pride of ownership of a very expensive TV and a prejudice that any equipment provided by a loathed cable company is probably junk).

This is what the manufacturer (Samsung) of my own 720p DLP TV has to say on this subject: "Samsung has always maintained that the best picture quality can be realized only when the format selection and scaling is performed prior to conversion to analog component video. This is why Samsung’s HD Receivers have always been designed to select a display format that matches the HDTV monitor’s format. Separately, the Samsung line of HD receivers can be set up to render SD channels in either wide, panorama or native 4:3 picture formats prior to the being sent to the TV. This is the ideal solution because the conversion is performed prior to analog conversion when using Component Video and functionally, it addresses the DVI connection too." (Full text here (http://www.digiupdate.com/P001_Interview_Steve_Panosian_HLNW1.html)).

That reasoning would lead to configuring the 8000HD to output only 720p. Those who disagree with that view would probably prefer to put the DVR in "pass-through" mode (i.e., 480i, 720p and 1080i). The one thing that most would probably agree about is that leaving the DVR in its default 1080i-only mode is not a good choice.

The scaler in my Sony Grand Wega II is signifiantly better than the scaler in my Scientific Atlanta cable box. It is harder to tell with the de-interlacer. However the Samsungs use the Faroudja DCDi de-interlacer which is probably the best available in a TV right now. I doubt the SA boxes can do better.

I would suggest passthru mode when using an SA cable box with any decent HD fixed pixel display. If that is not possible, you might want to use 1080i since most TWC HD channels are 1080i (except ABC, and soon Fox) and all the SD channels are 480i. The two 720p channels will be scaled to 1080 and interlaced of course (which is unfortunate) but the DCDi chip should have no problem de-interlacing content that was progressive to begin with.

Installed my SA8000HD last night. SD via component of SA8000HD is significantly better than SD via DVI on Pio 3510. I don't see much of a difference for HD.

Two questions:

1. HBO on demand does not work anymore - it tells me to call a number to subscribe. Channel 1000 on demand is working though. Anyone having the same problem?

2. Now that my Tivo is gone, I don't need to have the cable box on all the time. Are there discrete power on/off codes available somewhere for my universal remote (MX 700)? Or is toggle the only option?

Got my 8000HD yesterday from the 23rd street office! Works as advertised. I'm very impressed with the SD picture over component, looks better than 8000SD with S-video hook-up on my 50" Panny plasma, which is a pleasant surprise. Lot less crawling dots and interference. HD seems a little softer than on the Pio 3150, but still very good.

I had the same problem with the On-Demand premiums not working. I called customer support and hit the "re-authorize your box" option, which cleared it up.

Opposite of you, I'm actually getting Showtime HD for free now. Not sure how long that will last, but I'm recording everything good from there I can while I've got it (ha ha ha - another benefit for the DVR).

Originally posted by EricScott
The manual that comes w/ the 8000HD is useless - all of the instructions are for the SARA software and our boxes use Passport software.Does anyone have any idea where to find a manual for the Passport software? Specifically, I'm wondering if there's a way to record by keyword (ala Tivo/Replay), e.g., record everything with "poker" or "soccer" in the description. Thanks.

dpc

Originally posted by michaelpatriceh
Installed my SA8000HD last night. SD via component of SA8000HD is significantly better than SD via DVI on Pio 3510. I don't see much of a difference for HD.

Two questions:

1. HBO on demand does not work anymore - it tells me to call a number to subscribe. Channel 1000 on demand is working though. Anyone having the same problem?

2. Now that my Tivo is gone, I don't need to have the cable box on all the time. Are there discrete power on/off codes available somewhere for my universal remote (MX 700)? Or is toggle the only option?

michael,
what features of tivo do you miss the most when switching to this?
The most annoying thing I find with the TW TVGuide is that there doesn't appear to be a way to look at the program listing for another day/time without constantly scrolling until you reach the day/time you're interested in. Also is there a way to filter out channels from the the tvguide? They're like 200 channels and they're only a few channels that I watch. If you want to see what is showing at a particular time you have to scroll thru all the channels - very annoying. Any way around these problems?

Originally posted by csundbom
Got my 8000HD yesterday from the 23rd street office! Works as advertised. I'm very impressed with the SD picture over component, looks better than 8000SD with S-video hook-up on my 50" Panny plasma, which is a pleasant surprise. Lot less crawling dots and interference. HD seems a little softer than on the Pio 3150, but still very good.



Very interesting. I noticed the exact opposite - that SD was markedly better over S-Video on my 8000SD than Component on 8000HD.

Originally posted by walkman666

you compared the old Pioneer 3510, which is what I have, using DVI for HD (which is what I have) to component on the new SA800HD. The only difference in our set-up's is that I am using S-Video for SD on your old Pioneer 3510, and you used DVI (I have that option, but find the S-Video to be superior, interesting...).

- walkman

Same analysis I'm doing. Less concerned at this point about DVI vs. Component on HD b/c hopefully DVI will work at some point. More concerned about the SD comparison. It's a downgrade currently with component but I suspect it will be even worse if and when DVI is enabled and you can only use that (I suspect you won't be able to use DVI and component at the same time).

What to do. If it wasn't for the gray pillar bars I would almost definitely keep it. Still unsure. Going to require a lot more experimenting.

But not for another week or so - off on vacation for a bit.

Originally posted by randymac88
Re: Eric, the Grey Pillar bars - I had the same problem, and was also concerned about burn-in. What worked for me was to set the aspect ratio to 16:9, and put it in "stretch" mode on the box. Also make sure that you've got 480i/480p outputs enabled.

So, when my Sony is in 'full' wide mode (tuned to an SD channel), the image fills the entire screen but is stretched, per the box. No pillar bars. However I can adjust the wide mode so that it is in "wide zoom" and it's all good with me. Or, if I put the Sony into "Normal" mode, it squishes the stretched image, making it look correct, and gives me black pillar bars. Hope that helps.


Randy,

Thanks for the suggestion - will give it a try. Not sure if I have those options on the my Samsung. With Component, the only Picture size options I have are "Wide" and "4:3" - I don't think 4:3 with a stretched image will insert black pillar bars, but who knows. Also seems like a lot of scaling/processing.

I just wish you had the option to alter the banner color like in the SARA software - would totally solve my problem.

Thanks EricScott. It appears that there is a range of results in the assessment of improvement/decrements on SD and HD picture quality of folks who have traded to the SA8000HD, mostly regarding SD. You claim SD pic quality to have declined whereas three others (randymac88, michaelpatriceh, and csundbom) have said it has improved. Some differences might be related to the previous HD box used (SA vs. Pioneer), displays (TV sets), some to subjective individual differences in perception, some to the cables used (I doubt this), and maybe some other factors...?

I dunno. My guess is that once DVI is enabled, HD picture quality on the new SA8000HD will be pretty comparable to the non-DVR HD boxes, but it's the SD picture quality that seems to be most uncertain. Some say it's improved, some say it's worse. I doubt one will be able to use both DVI and component, and currently, based on this thread the HD Hardware Forum, folks with this box cannot use DVI/Component and S-Video simultaneously, so that seems to suggest (at least for now), that component/(DVI in the future) will be the connection on which to judge SD pic quality.

The plot thickens. - walkman

Originally posted by walkman666
Thanks EricScott. It appears that there is a range of results in the assessment of improvement/decrements on SD and HD picture quality of folks who have traded to the SA8000HD, mostly regarding SD. You claim SD pic quality to have declined whereas three others (randymac88, michaelpatriceh, and csundbom) have said it has improved. Some differences might be related to the previous HD box used (SA vs. Pioneer), displays (TV sets), some to subjective individual differences in perception, some to the cables used (I doubt this), and maybe some other factors...?



Agreed, but 2 of the three who said SD pq improved on the 8000HD were using DVI before - so that's to expected. Csundbom was the only one using S-Video, which is our basis for comparison. Really just trying to figure out if what I have now is better than what I had.

It should definitely be interesting to see what we all decide. The way I look at it, I didn't lose anything (except my Pioneer box) by making the switch. If I return the 8000HD, I will keep what I currently have which works great for me. If I keep it, I may need to make other compromises but get the added benefit of timeshifting HD.

Also curious about the true storage capacity of this box. Others have reported that if you have say 12 hours of HD on the box and set a 6 hour recording that some of your original content goes away. If I have an HD DVR, I will obviously be recording my favorite network shows in HD, so storage could be an issue. I set up about 13 hours of HD recording for the next few days while I'm away - hopefully it will all be ther ewhen I return.

Hey Eric,

I think you got my point, but just to make sure I'm clear - essentially, when using "stretch" on the SA box, the box is actually not inserting any pillar bars at all. What you're doing is setting the box to 'stretch', but then setting your TV at "4:3", effectively compressing the stretched image back down to normal. The pillar bars are black because that's what your Samsung is putting in, not the box.

Originally posted by randymac88
Hey Eric,

I think you got my point, but just to make sure I'm clear - essentially, when using "stretch" on the SA box, the box is actually not inserting any pillar bars at all. What you're doing is setting the box to 'stretch', but then setting your TV at "4:3", effectively compressing the stretched image back down to normal. The pillar bars are black because that's what your Samsung is putting in, not the box.

Randy,

Makes sense - I guess I never tried 4:3 mode on a widescreen image (effectively what stretch on the cable box does) so I wouldn't know how the Samsung would handle it. But sounds like it should work.

Only issue is, if my Samsung is set to 4:3 for a true widescreen - HD channel, then what happens. Since I can only use component I can only store one picture size for it - would have to keep switching b/t wide and 4:3 I guess. Yet another advantage of wiring S-V and DVI or component in parallel - you have separte picture size / picture settings options.

Good observation about the SD comparisons, EricScott. And, csundbom had the old SA800SD, and you had (I have) the old Pioneer 3510. Dang! I want to read what another former Pioneer 3510 user, who watched SD using S-Video, perceives the diff in pic quality to be using the new SA8000HD using component. That would be 100% apples to apples for me (and it's always about me, right? Aaaar aaar).

- walkman

Originally posted by walkman666
Good observation about the SD comparisons, EricScott. And, csundbom had the old SA800SD, and you had (I have) the old Pioneer 3510. Dang! I want to read what another former Pioneer 3510 user, who watched SD using S-Video, perceives the diff in pic quality to be using the new SA8000HD using component. That would be 100% apples to apples for me (and it's always about me, right? Aaaar aaar).

- walkman

Actually for SD I was using the 8000SD DVR as well. So csundbom and I had the same setup - even more confusing :)

FWIW, I was using component with the Pio 3510 or 3150 (can't remember which) before and am now using component with the SA 8000HD. I notice a considerable improvement in SD pic quality with the 8000HD. I do think HD looks "softer," as someone else noted, with the new box. Would replacing the TWC component cable with Monster Cable or an equivalent really make a difference?

dpc

Thanks again EricScott, you varmint ;-)

perrycampf: Good info, you kept the connections "constant" between old and new which provides some very useful additional "data".

The cable debate is long and intense and varies considerably. I do subscribe to the theory that better cables make a difference, to a point. I think the clear advantages of better cables comes when comparing the bottom of the line junk you get free with purchased equipment (such as what comes with the box you got from TWC) vs. a good, decent cable you buy from an eletronics outfit. Folks in these boards recommend bluejeans cable as good cables that are reasonably priced. I have also seen recommendations for PacificCable (which I tried, and had a negative experience; connector fell off), and Ram Electronics (which I also tried and have since used for a DVI cable and 2 component cables -- these are very strudy, reasonably priced, good quality cables).

- walkman

Hey Walkman,

For what its worth - I had set up my old Pioneer with an S-Vid connection in another port for SD, but I never watched it because it was terrible on my set - worse than the SD picture quality using DVI (which is really saying something).

So from that perspective, the upgrade from S-Video/Pio3510 to Component/8000HD on my set was even more dramatic. However my experience does not seem to be the same as others on the list (most seem to have said the S-Vid SD was better than DVI SD).

Thanks randymac88. Looks like there's quite a bit of variability on that SD pic quality, even with equivalent connections (S-Video) and boxes (Pioneer 3510). Bizarre! I really appreciate your information on this.

Ultimately, if I kinda tally the votes, it so far appears that the SD pic quality is improved with the new SA8000HD and the HD pic quality is either marginally softer or equivalent. The pillar box issue is also noted. I am likely going to make this swap, and roll the dice. It's not critical either way, so for a blabbermouth like me who cannot seem to get enough data to make a decision, I really could be fine off without the HD-DVR, too. I like my toys though! (and to have it, when I really want it!).

thx, - walkman

Hi All,

I have been using the 8000HD box (in NYC) for a couple of days now. Does anyone know how to get into the DIAGNOSTIC mode? I believe the instructions which come with the unit are for the SARAH software not the PASSPORT software.

Specifically I would like to know whether it is possible to change the screen size (not the aspect ratio stuff in the regular settings) so that the channel guide/program info is in 16:9 NOT 4:3. Seems like it would be nice to utilize that extra space....

Many Thanks

EricScott,

To clarify the SD PQ improvement I'm seeing...

The main issue I was having with S-video was poor de-interlacing by the Panny. On network news channels (CNN etc) I used to see a lot of flicker in/around the bugs/graphics/ticker parts. With the 8000HD doing the de-interlacing and sending 480p to the plasma, this problem disappeared.

Apart from this particular issue, the SD PQ is very close to the 8000SD. I'm very picky/sensitive (had everything ISF calibrated, spent months messing around trying to optimize things etc) when it comes to PQ, and after the box switch I "adjusted" (meaning not being bothered by the changed picture) in a matter of hours. When I switched from 2000 to 8000 I took forever to get used to it.

I don't think you will be disappointed, but as always YMMV.

Originally posted by vadalus
Hi All,

I have been using the 8000HD box (in NYC) for a couple of days now. Does anyone know how to get into the DIAGNOSTIC mode? I believe the instructions which come with the unit are for the SARAH software not the PASSPORT software.

Specifically I would like to know whether it is possible to change the screen size (not the aspect ratio stuff in the regular settings) so that the channel guide/program info is in 16:9 NOT 4:3. Seems like it would be nice to utilize that extra space....

Many Thanks From the TWC 8000 HD thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4231139#post4231139): "My software is Pioneer Passport ... To go to the Diagnostic screen......on the box hold down the large "+" button in the center and the "Exit" button at the same time until "diag" comes up on the remote readout. Let go and with the remote put in channel 611 and you will get the diagnositc screen."

dpc

I picked up one at the Brooklyn office this morning. They had seven left.

I have a question. Is there any way to watch something that is recording, starting from the beginning? This was a feature that I loved about my Replaytv. This afternoon, I was testing the unit and I set it to record Seabisquit. I got home about an hour into it and wanted to watch it from the beginning. It only gave me the option of starting live and would only let me rewind about a half hour. Is there something wrong with my box or is this the best that can be done?

Thanks.
Jason

jasonDono,

Hit List and then find the recording. Even though it may still be recording, if you access it through the List of Recordings menu, you should be able to watch it from the beginning.

Originally posted by jasonDono
I picked up one at the Brooklyn office this morning. They had seven left.

I have a question. Is there any way to watch something that is recording, starting from the beginning? This was a feature that I loved about my Replaytv. This afternoon, I was testing the unit and I set it to record Seabisquit. I got home about an hour into it and wanted to watch it from the beginning. It only gave me the option of starting live and would only let me rewind about a half hour. Is there something wrong with my box or is this the best that can be done?

Thanks.
Jason

Hit List then go to the program and choose "Play from beginning".

Originally posted by dkan24
Hit List then go to the program and choose "Play from beginning".

That option is not available. Only "Play" is available while the program is recording.

Originally posted by jasonDono
That option is not available. Only "Play" is available while the program is recording. Apparently there is no way to watch a show from the beginning while it's recoding. It looks like this is a known issue that will (hopefully) be corrected in future firmware upgrades: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3980569#post3980569

As a side note, the TWC SA 8000 HD thread (as linked herein) is a good resource (I've found); since most of the country has has this box longer than us, they've already explored many of the issues folks are raising here (grey bars, aspect ratio, etc.). The downside is that some of the answers over there apply to SARA and not Passport, so take them with a grain of salt when applying to NYC.

dpc

Hi all,

Picked up my 8000HD box today, and a bit disappointed that absolutely none of the SD outputs function when the box is in HD mode. The VCR archive outputs seem to be completely disabled, at least from what the instruction booklet says, and the coaxial & s-video outputs are also useless. Is this correct? I hadn't realized that I would be making my TiVo completely worthless, as I had intended to continue using it for SD recording. Not sure if giving up the ability to connect to an external device is what I wanted to accomplish here, so any info is appreciated.

Jen

Originally posted by jennydee
Hi all,

Picked up my 8000HD box today, and a bit disappointed that absolutely none of the SD outputs function when the box is in HD mode. The VCR archive outputs seem to be completely disabled, at least from what the instruction booklet says, and the coaxial & s-video outputs are also useless. Is this correct? I hadn't realized that I would be making my TiVo completely worthless, as I had intended to continue using it for SD recording. Not sure if giving up the ability to connect to an external device is what I wanted to accomplish here, so any info is appreciated.

Jen There doesn't seem to be a great answer, but these posts might help:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4223271#post4223271

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4224505#post4224505

dpc

I have had the Pio 3510HD box since March and still cannot get the DVI connection to work. I had them swap it out with another Pio and still no luck. I know my plasma and DVI cable are ok since I was able to view my PC on it. I remember there was supposed to be some kind of firmware patch for the Pio boxes but never got confirmation. I also wonder if this has anything to do with my location in the city (upper west side).

So the question is, do I swap out my Pio for an SA box? The TWC rep said that they are phasing out the SA's? I never believe a word they say so I wondered if anyone here had heard.

HI All,

OK so I managed to find the diag option on my 8000HD on channel 611 as advised. However there is no aspect control for the channel banner or guide here. Does anyone know of any way of setting this?

Many Thanks

DUMB AND DUMBER!

So guess what TW did? They came and removed my fully functioning Pioneer box and replaced it with the non-HD DVR box (SA 8000). This after I stated at least three times that I wanted the HD DVR box. So now I have no HD on my plasma.

Unsurprisingly, when I called TW, the rep insisted that they did install the HD box. Um, sorry, no. AND they couldn't remove the $25 charge; I have to call back later for that. What service! Any bets that they screw up on Friday again?

Ok, here's what I'm trying now...

Switched the box to SD mode, and recording part of something on HBOHD right now to see if when I switch back into HD mode, its actually been recorded in HD. Any thoughts on whether I should expect that to work? If so, I'd be more than happy to leave the box in SD mode so the TiVo can record things, and just switch back to HD to watch stuff I've recorded on the HD channels...a sloppy workaround, but better than none at all.

Jen

Originally posted by gregeas
DUMB AND DUMBER!

So guess what TW did? They came and removed my fully functioning Pioneer box and replaced it with the non-HD DVR box (SA 8000). This after I stated at least three times that I wanted the HD DVR box. So now I have no HD on my plasma.

Unsurprisingly, when I called TW, the rep insisted that they did install the HD box. Um, sorry, no. AND they couldn't remove the $25 charge; I have to call back later for that. What service! Any bets that they screw up on Friday again?

That's why I plan to make sure that they've delivered the correct DVR tomorrow before they leave with my Pioneer.

I would never take that bet. TWC, quite frankly, is the worst run company on the planet when it comes to customer service and competent support. They will absolutely screw it up again....and again....and again.

Well, just felt I should report that my experiment earlier was somewhat of a success. I can switch the box into SD mode, and have a feed the TiVo connected via s-video & stereo audio cable, while the DVR records an HD channel in full 5.1 surround sound (via optical cable to receiver) to be played back when I change the box back to HD mode. Certainly not an ideal situation, but I have another place I can relocate the TiVo to in a few months, so I'll probably phase it out entirely from this setup at that point. At least its not too much of a pain to switch the box between modes, though it would be nice if you could accomplish that through the remote.

Jen

Could you use your AVR Receiver (assuming that you have one) to switch the inputs being used from the Cable Box or do you physically have to unplug the HD cables to enable the S-Video feed from the cable box??

Drew

I found on another thread (forget where for the moment) that, while the HDDVR is on, you hold the Channel + button and then press and release the Volume - button (both buttons being on the DVR, not the remote). This switches between HD & SD output, and it's the only way so far I've found of enabling the s-video output. You can easily switch back & forth between modes, but it does require pressing buttons on the actual box, so its not something you're gonna want to do every 5-10 minutes. No unplugging of any cables is required.

Jen

Anyone with a Samsung DLP and a Scientific Atlanta box ? Is there a code to set up the Samsung remote to control the SA box ? There is no code listed in the Samsung manual for Scientific Atlanta at all. Has anyone made the Samsung remote control their SA box ?

Saw a post earlier about how to put the SA HD DVR in diagnostic mode.

What can you do in diagnostic mode? and has anyone made any improvements?

I was just down at 23rd Street and got my SA8000HD, trading in my old 3100HD. (After all I went through to get that box, it was hard to let it go.)

For those who are thinking of going, as of today they're delivering 40 units a day rather than 10. Of course, my experience before going was typical TWC customer service.

I called (212) 358-0900 to reserve a box, even though I knew the odds of this working (or being needed) were slim. The woman I spoke with was very nice, and said that she couldn't do it for me, but that I should call the billing center to reserve the box. I asked what number I should call, and she told me (212) 358-0900. She was extremely confused when I told her that I had reached her by calling that very number. She said she would look into it. After 10 minutes on hold, I had a confirmation number.

I'm still playing around with the box, but I must say that the interface is really disappointing compared to Tivo. In my mind, this is really a stop-gap measure until a cablecard HDTivo is on the market. (I've got a Tivo connected to a second (non-HD) box, so I can use my tv's PIP. As a Met fan married to a Yankee fan, it's great when both teams are playing.)

Using component inputs, the SD looks better than it did with the 3100. The HD looks fine right now, but there's a bit of glare in the room at this hour. I'll be able to give a better report at night.

One thing I have noticed is that sometimes when I change channels, the whole screen goes grey and just stays that way. Changing to a different channel fixes the problem...
-JMP

Originally posted by jmp_nyc

Using component inputs, the SD looks better than it did with the 3100. The HD looks fine right now, but there's a bit of glare in the room at this hour. I'll be able to give a better report at night.

Thanks for the post. Yes, I'd appreciate your views comparing HD between the two converters. Someone said earlier they thought the 8000HD was softer. That's going the wrong direction, so suspect I'll await more opinions before swapping my 3100HD. Do I understand correctly from other posts you can't use S-video and YPbPb out simultaneously?!

My 3100HD has always had an annoying but faint white fog that spoils contrast and masks the finest details; SA has apparently eliminated that. Swapping isn't a big priority here since I'm shelling out for a second cable subscription from RCN, which provides a fogless HD DVR, but which has only one HD tuner (can't record and watch a different channel). -- John

Hey John, I was wondering when you were going to surface on this topic. I can't believe that you're still using the SA31000HD. At this point, I don't think anyone has been able to perform a side by side comparison on the SA8000HD with any other box. In my experience, my eyes tend adjust quickly to whatever picture I'm watching. My guess is that after a week of use and experience with the box that most people will be very pleased with the results/performance of the HD-DVR. Earlier reports were that HD via Component was better on the SA8000HD than on the SA 3250 Component. So, in summary, we've had a lot of mixed perceptions that I attribute to the wide array of before/after connections and HDTV Display devices.

I'm using the Pio via DVI and I am very happy with the PQ on both SD and HD channels. I let the box do the stretching on SD channels and it seems to work fine. I've decided that I'm going to wait a few weeks to see if they release a software update to enable the DVI. Although I may break down and make the trip over to 23rd st. At this point, I'm hesistant to give up the Pio box for fear that it will be gone forever.

Drew

Hey guys... I wanna get one of these boxes.

I absolutely DESPISE grey side bars. In fact... i don't like sidebars period. I stretch everything, I own a Pioneer plasma.

I currently have a 3510. My SD channels are stretched I believe from changing it on the cable box itself. I heard people here saying SD channels come with grey side bars on this 8000HD.

Can you change the options on the 8000HD so you don't have any side bars? I think you can from reading above... but I want to be certain before I go down tomorrow to swap out two boxes.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Can you change the options on the 8000HD so you don't have any side bars?

Yes. The options for SD are sidebars, zoom and stretch. There's a button on the remote (confusingly labeled "Video Source") that toggles among the 3 modes.