Ok cool. Thanks. I am gonna swing by tomorrow and swap out my 3510 with an 8000HD. And ill swap my 8000 with a normal 3250 (no hi-def - second bedroom) and hook my replayTV up to that. Hopefully the stock will be good. :)

i picked one up last night at 23rd street - they had a bunch of them. my only complaint is not being easily able to switch to SD mode - i have my plasma hooked up to it and have the coax going to my bedroom tv. to switch i have to press and hold the channel up button and press and release the volumn up button - very messy and when you switch back it undoes the streaching on the SD channels, so those horrible grey bars come back. but its pretty awsoms to be able to recorde high def shows!!!!!

SHK718, this may seem like an obvious question, but why don't you just get a second cable box? I'm sure you have a valid reason, but I had to ask anyway :-)

Mantus (or anyone else with the SA8000HD), is the remote for this different than on the SA8000 SD DVR?

Thanks

Drew

The remotes the same. I returned my SA 8000 including the remote, but they told me to take the remote. Don't even bother to take it to the TWC place.

Hope this helps...JL

Originally posted by drew138
SHK718, this may seem like an obvious question, but why don't you just get a second cable box? I'm sure you have a valid reason, but I had to ask anyway :-)

Mantus (or anyone else with the SA8000HD), is the remote for this different than on the SA8000 SD DVR?

Thanks

Drew


I feel i pay Time Warner a ton of money (i think its $140/mo) I have every pay channel and Road Runner - I don't want to give them any more money for a second box I feel they should give me for free.

The Remote is the same.

I hate TWC with a growing passion. Just got back from 23rd St with my new 8000HD only to discover that they left out the power cable! Argh! I have to turn around now and go all the way back!

In other words, make sure that everything is in the box before you leave...

my HD channels have a green tint and flicker. I guess I should reboot the box. Man, I hope it's not my TV.

After a long phone call to TWC to get the HD-DVR I was told to go to 23rd St. and pick it up. I went there and took a number. Waitied 1 hour(!!!) only to be told they didn't have one in stock. I'm so pissed I think I'll be switching back to DirecTV. TWC really does have the WORST customer service and support I've ever seen.

Originally posted by LawrenceB
After a long phone call to TWC to get the HD-DVR I was told to go to 23rd St. and pick it up. I went there and took a number. Waitied 1 hour(!!!) only to be told they didn't have one in stock. I'm so pissed I think I'll be switching back to DirecTV. TWC really does have the WORST customer service and support I've ever seen.


i agree their customer service dept is clueless - someone there told me i could go to 23rd st to exchange my sd dvr for the hd dvr - luckily i found out you couldn't before i went there. i'm in a co-op and have no other options - amaizing i live in the largest city in the world and don't have options. i can choose cell phone companies i can choose long distance and local but i can't choose cable. :mad:

Geeze, I was gone for a week, out of touch. The first thing I do whenever I get back is turn on the TV and check to see if we got any new HD channels. Ha! Next thing I do is check out this thread. MEEEEENKAYA!

I just caught up on all of the pages I’ve missed. This thread has turned into a page turner. Wow, and to think, a couple of weeks ago we were worried that it was fading away.

Well, I got my old HD box sitting in my car, after work I’m heading over to Kissena Blvd., I got my confirmation number. Ha, we’ll see what happens. Can’t wait. After reading all of the horror stories, I don’t know what to expect. Hopefully I’ll be doing some time shifting this weekend.

Has anyone picked one up in Queens yet? Phil?


Thanks,

Larry

Sorry Guys, been in crisis mode at work since Tuesday and haven't had time to get to post. I will work my thoughts and comparisons over the weekend as I have in house One (1) Pio 3510HD, One (1) SA8000HD, and One (1) SA8000.

Larry, If you have any trouble at the Kissena Blvd., Flushing location ask to see Natasha on the 2nd floor, she should be able to help you. Good Luck.

Thanks but, er, what is Kissena? I live in Manhattan and went to the 23rd St. Store.

I'll be really curious to hear about the quality of the SA8000HD compared to the old Pioneer box.

Kissena, Jamaica, etc. are payment centers in Queens. From what I've seen on this thread, many people who live in Manhattan are going to the 23rd Street office which appears to be very busy - one hour waits. I would try to get to a Queens office because of short waits and plenty of product.

I discovered on Tuesday that the SA 8000HD was available and was told by CS that I couldn't do a swap/self install because I didn't have HD, just DTV. I arranged to swap the SA 8000 DVR for a self install HD STB with the intent of doing another swap for the self install SA 8000HD. When I got to the Jamaica TWC office (Tuesday/5:15 PM) I was the next person on line. The rep asked if I had an HDTV and saw I was swapping a DVR and without even looking up my work order number told me to keep the power cord and remote "because they are the same." That surprised me because I was expecting a plain old HD STB, but instead she handed me a SA 8000HD! I signed the paperwork, thanked the nice lady and went home a very happy TWC customer.

BTW, I have decided to use the "720p" Output Format only. The PQ is best for both HD and SD on the Mitsu WD-52525 DLP using that setting. I wish I could get the TWC CableCARD to work consistently, but that's another story.

Regards...JL

Comedy of errors?

Well, you'll never guess what happened... TW brought the wrong box for the SECOND TIME. The first time (see above), they removed my Pio HD box and replaced it with the non-HD DVR box. On the makeup appointment today, they removed the DVR and replaced it with...the 3250HD. The receipt says they installed the 8000HD. What idiots.

Surprising, when I called to complain tonight, I got the same rep I had a few nights back. Had to laugh. TW won't do installs next week (due to the convention), so my appointment is two weeks away. Might have been easier to head to 23rd Street after all. I do think the 3250 is a bit nicer than the old Pio box.

Ok... went to Woodside this morning... gave them a Pioneer 3510 and I got an 8000HD in return. There was no line and I was in and out in 5 minutes.

I just wished all was well. The PQ on my plasma is subpar next to the 3510 (both hooked up via component). I am also getting plenty of audio dropouts when using the coaxial audio out (similar to the way the old SA hi-def boxes worked).

Are there any tricks to prevent the audio dropouts from happening? Does this happen to anyone else? This never happened to my 3510.

Also... I can't seem to get the svideo port on the SA8000HD to work connected to my plasma. Is there anything I need to set on the cable box to enable the Svideo port?

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Ok... went to Woodside this morning... gave them a Pioneer 3510 and I got an 8000HD in return. There was no line and I was in and out in 5 minutes.

I just wished all was well. The PQ on my plasma is subpar next to the 3510 (both hooked up via component). I am also getting plenty of audio dropouts when using the coaxial audio out (similar to the way the old SA hi-def boxes worked).

Are there any tricks to prevent the audio dropouts from happening? Does this happen to anyone else? This never happened to my 3510.

Also... I can't seem to get the svideo port on the SA8000HD to work connected to my plasma. Is there anything I need to set on the cable box to enable the Svideo port?

I've hooked up my 8000HD to my HK receiver via coax and haven't had any audio dropouts. As noted in earlier postings and the SA installation booklet, the 8000HD's SVideo output is disabled unless the DVR is downshifted to SD mode.

Interesting. I get a lot of audio dropouts with my Sony Receiver. I never got a single dropout with the Pio 3510. This is not good. Plus I am one of those guys that noticed a DECREASE in PQ watching stretched SD compared to the Pio3510.

If I decide to return this back to TW... I hope I can get the 3510 back. :(

I'm seeing what is definitely lower PQ with the 8000HD as compared to the 3100HD (yeah, I was too lazy to ever swap it out.) I'd say the HD channels look more like FOX ED or even a DVD than they did before... Anyone else notice this? Hopefully it's a software or header problem that needs to be worked out?

Originally posted by sir_captain
I'm seeing what is definitely lower PQ with the 8000HD as compared to the 3100HD (yeah, I was too lazy to ever swap it out.) I'd say the HD channels look more like FOX ED or even a DVD than they did before... Anyone else notice this? Hopefully it's a software or header problem that needs to be worked out?
I've seen a few comments that 8000HD HD quality is poor, but not a lot of them considering how many new units are now being used. But don't plan on swapping my 3100HD until this is cleared up. Assume those dissatified are talking about direct HD output, not DVR output.

You might get what reads like a dramatic drop in picture quality if your 8000HD was set up to output only 480p instead of 1080i. If TWC's Discovery HD Theater was delivering 'wow-effect' 1080i on your set with the 3100HD and you're getting such dismal images now maybe the setup menu isn't correct for your display.

I'm interested in eliminating the well-known 'fog effect' from my 3100HD (for YPbPr outputs), but have another source of good crisp HD (RCN Cable), so I'm using my 3100HD from TWC mostly for its excellent-quality, fog-free S-video output of SD channels. -- John

Yes, I'm getting plenty-o audio dropouts with my SA 8000 HD connected to my Onkyo reciever via digital optical cable. I got some with the SA 3250 box, but this is ridiculous!

I'm hoping they will upgrade the firmware and give us DVI soon.

Has anyone explored diagnostic mode with the SA HD DVR and made any improvements? what options does it allow for?

Two basic questions, as I have no manual.
1) Will my dvr record if I turn the system off? Is it smart enough to turn itself on to record, or should I just leave it on when I go on vacation to make sure it records?
2) If I do not select 480i or 1080i, will the box record in the smallest amount of space when recording sd? I would imagine if I record 704, it would take up the same amount of space regardless if the broadcast is in HDTV based on how 704 is transmitted, but if I record channel 4 will the sa8000 hd know to record sd? I imagine that the space on the drive will fill quickly if the system cannot distinguish sd recording from hd recording.
Thanks if anyone knows.
On a different note, does time warner charge 8.95 extra for each DVR, or is the charge per household. I ask as I am thinking of getting an sa 8000 for the other room. I already pay a second box charge, and wonder if I would also get dinged for the monthly dvr charges.

I just recorded Underworld in high - def - when i watched it - the picture was georgous!!! same as my pio box and no audio droupouts. some other high def cannels though, i've experienced quite a few droupouts. so i think the audio droupouts may depend on what we're watching and has something to do with the transmission not the box - but i have no idea

Originally posted by Mattdoc
Two basic questions, as I have no manual.
1) Will my dvr record if I turn the system off? Is it smart enough to turn itself on to record, or should I just leave it on when I go on vacation to make sure it records?
2) If I do not select 480i or 1080i, will the box record in the smallest amount of space when recording sd? I would imagine if I record 704, it would take up the same amount of space regardless if the broadcast is in HDTV based on how 704 is transmitted, but if I record channel 4 will the sa8000 hd know to record sd? I imagine that the space on the drive will fill quickly if the system cannot distinguish sd recording from hd recording.
Thanks if anyone knows.
On a different note, does time warner charge 8.95 extra for each DVR, or is the charge per household. I ask as I am thinking of getting an sa 8000 for the other room. I already pay a second box charge, and wonder if I would also get dinged for the monthly dvr charges.

anything on ch 704 is high def. If the show is not in high def, it is upconverted to high def, so if u record it, it will be recording in high def.

Hi All,

Can anyone confirm that there are getting Dolby Digital output from their 8000HD? I watched Underworld last night and my AV unit tells me when it is receiving Dolby Digital -- and it wasn't.

Since I have been using this box, I have not see it once. I am sure with my old 3100HD box I used to see it all the time on the High Def channels.

L

I definitely get Full Dolby 5.1 digital with my Sony Receiver and 8000HD. Too bad the audio drops out frequently for me on some programs.

While I never thought that using the S-Video output of the Pioneer STB for viewing SD yielded any PQ improvement with my Samsung "HLN" DLP, I did use that output for recording live broadcasts with my DVD recorder. Now, with the SA8000HD, that option's gone. On the HLNs, the two component inputs that accept HD signals will not accept 480i (and the component input that accepts 480i and 480p will not accept 720p and 1080i). The 8000HD's S-Video output can only be used if the TV is downshifted to SD mode. When I do that, the resulting 480i signal produces an "unsupported mode" error message on the TV screen. So, short of yanking the component cables from the HD inputs and connecting them to the 480i input, the S-Video output from the 8000HD is useless.

This could change, I suppose, if and when the DVI port and the "Archive to VCR" output are activated, but given SA's history of including ports that are never activated, I'm not holding my breath.

sorry to disappoint you but Metro channel's spectrum has been taken over by CNNFN which used to be channel shared with YES. YES is fulltime on Channel 80, CNNFN part time on Channel 64 and CSPAN has moved to Channel 70.

Time to get RCN for some real HDTV

Originally posted by jmp_nyc
So now that Metro has been moved out of analog spectrum, when are we getting another HD channel? When I spoke with Bob Watson a couple of months ago, he told me that there were several channels (INHD1/2, TNT-HD) that were ready to go from a contractual standpoint, but were just waiting on spectrum. It's been a week since the spectrum was released, yet there seems to be no word about adding channels. I take that to mean that things weren't quite as ready to go as Watson indicated.

Since there's no longer any question about when some bandwidth will be available, does anyone want to guess what channel(s) we'll get and when? I was particularly annoyed last week when I was in Circuit City on 86th between 2nd & 3rd (TWC territory) and saw a sign advertizing TWC's HD service, listing the channels available. Among them were FSN, TNT-HD, and INHD. Unfortunately, the fine print underneath mentioned that not all services are available in all areas. That said, it's time for us to get more channels...
-JMP

Thanks Timewaster,
I figured that if I tape 704, regardless of the broadcast it will record and take up hidef space. I am curious about what happens if I tape channel 4 itself. Will the machine know to record in low-def.
And in season mode, lets say I want to tape all first run episdoes of 'er'. Will it by default tape hi-def, low def, or both? or in season mode does it count the hi def channel as a different show (er, and er HD.) I set the dvr to tape all first run episdoes of "Father of the Pride" but it did not recognize that the show is on both this coming tues and thurs, so I set it manually for Thurs. Shouldn't season mode recognize this? or is it just by day and time slot, and unable to find the same show in a different slot?
and is season mode SD, HD or both? Thanks
---Matt

are you using optical or coaxial?

Originally posted by DjPiLL
I definitely get Full Dolby 5.1 digital with my Sony Receiver and 8000HD. Too bad the audio drops out frequently for me on some programs.

Went to 23rd location and discovered no HD -DVR boxes. The key is to ask the guard BEFORE you stand in line. He was able to call and verify the number of HD boxes the 2nd time. In addition, he said the HD DVRs are delivered every night and you are more likely to get one at 8am.

Picture quality is OK. Before moving to Manhattan, I had Tivo on DirectTV. The TW DVR software is like using an Apple IIe instead of the TIVO Pentium. No rating programs, no suggested recordings, difficult to find shows by title search (hey - TW - try using the entire alphabet in your menu.) Got a new HD channel - ABC news - I am so excited!!! Who needs ESPNHD when you have 24/7 of Peter Jennings?

The entire trade-in process took about 10 minutes yesterday at the Flushing location.
I agree with most. SD PQ is definitely decreased. I only use component cables for video, so the set top box stretches the picture for SD. Jury is still out on the HD PQ. Sometimes I think PQ is the same with 8000HD. Sometimes I notice a decrease in PQ for Hidef broadcast. This worries me.
I use coax dig cable to connect to Sony receiver. I experience a lot of audio drop outs, but only right after I tune into a channel. Since I tend to channel surf a lot, this is a problem.

Hey guys, I'm getting a Toshiba 30" WS from Amazon in a week or so and I'm wondering how I should go about trading in my old DTV box for a HD DTV box. Is there a better HD cable box then the others that I should ask for? Will it include any connectors? I don't plan on getting DVR.

Also I want to be all setup for when the new tv arrives, so can I go get the HD box now and make it work on my regular old 27"? Or should I just wait until the new one arrives?

Thanks.

len:

Congratulations on your new HDTV. I would recommend the Scientific Altanta 3250 box -- but I don't know why you don't want the DVR. Timeshifting is an incredible feature, and I don't believe the DVR box (SA 8000 HD) costs more than the regular HD box.

TWC does include component cables, but you should definitely look into getting higher quality component/DVI/HDMI cables depending on your TV's inputs.

You could go trade in your old box and pick up the new HD box anytime, and you'll be all set up. All they have to do is make sure your cable box is addressable on the network and thats it. However, it won't work on your 27 inch analog TV from what I understand. Just go trade it in just before your new set arrives.

does anyone know whether it is possible to change the aspect ratio of the program guide on the 8000HD box?

Seems like a waste of space presenting it *only* in 4:3

L

Originally posted by Rock the Mullet
len:

Congratulations on your new HDTV. I would recommend the Scientific Altanta 3250 box -- but I don't know why you don't want the DVR. Timeshifting is an incredible feature, and I don't believe the DVR box (SA 8000 HD) costs more than the regular HD box.

TWC does include component cables, but you should definitely look into getting higher quality component/DVI/HDMI cables depending on your TV's inputs.

You could go trade in your old box and pick up the new HD box anytime, and you'll be all set up. All they have to do is make sure your cable box is addressable on the network and thats it. However, it won't work on your 27 inch analog TV from what I understand. Just go trade it in just before your new set arrives.


There is no extra charge for a regular HD box; there is an extra charge ($8.95/month, I believe) for a DVR.

There should be no reason why you couldn't use the analog outputs on a TWC HD box with you current TV until your new set arrives. You should check on TWC's current policy on self-installation of a HD box; at one time, it required a service call to verify the presence of a HDTV.

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced visual glitches in both SD & HD programming, sometimes but not always accompanied by audio drop-outs, since installing a new HD DVR box. I've recorded a few hours of HD content, and have found them to contain multiple instances of pixilated lines appearing momentarily. This occurs regardless of channel recorded, and I have seen it on SD channels as well as HD. However, when I recorded a show both on the DVR and off the same feed with my TiVo, I found both recordings to contain the same anomalies at the same times, so I know it isn't just a product of the DVR's recording process. Should I consider getting my new 8000HD replaced, or maybe its just receiving a corrupted signal from the company? Any advice appreciated.

Jen

Originally posted by jennydee
Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced visual glitches in both SD & HD programming, sometimes but not always accompanied by audio drop-outs, since installing a new HD DVR box. I've recorded a few hours of HD content, and have found them to contain multiple instances of pixilated lines appearing momentarily. This occurs regardless of channel recorded, and I have seen it on SD channels as well as HD. However, when I recorded a show both on the DVR and off the same feed with my TiVo, I found both recordings to contain the same anomalies at the same times, so I know it isn't just a product of the DVR's recording process. Should I consider getting my new 8000HD replaced, or maybe its just receiving a corrupted signal from the company? Any advice appreciated.

Jen


I have the same exact issues. But I am waiting it out to see if it improves or not.

I have a Sony Receiver and using Coax Digital. I thought Optical audio was not an option on the 8000HD.

There's an optical out on the far left (as you look at the back of the box)

L


Originally posted by DjPiLL
I have the same exact issues. But I am waiting it out to see if it improves or not.

I have a Sony Receiver and using Coax Digital. I thought Optical audio was not an option on the 8000HD.

Originally posted by vadalus
There's an optical out on the far left (as you look at the back of the box)

L


Hmmmm.... I will have to take a look for this. Maybe the optical out will help my dropout issues. I doubt it... but I guess it never hurts to try.

Originally posted by Mattdoc
Thanks Timewaster,
I figured that if I tape 704, regardless of the broadcast it will record and take up hidef space. I am curious about what happens if I tape channel 4 itself. Will the machine know to record in low-def.
And in season mode, lets say I want to tape all first run episdoes of 'er'. Will it by default tape hi-def, low def, or both? or in season mode does it count the hi def channel as a different show (er, and er HD.) I set the dvr to tape all first run episdoes of "Father of the Pride" but it did not recognize that the show is on both this coming tues and thurs, so I set it manually for Thurs. Shouldn't season mode recognize this? or is it just by day and time slot, and unable to find the same show in a different slot?
and is season mode SD, HD or both? Thanks
---Matt

I don't have the DVR yet. but If you record ch4, it should record in SDTV. With the season mode, if you pick ch 704 ER, then it should record the high-def one, if you choose ch4 ER in your season mode, then it should record sdtv. So depending on which channel you choose in your season mode, it will record either the HD or SD version. Since I don't have the DVR yet, Maybe someone else on this forum can confirm.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
Hmmmm.... I will have to take a look for this. Maybe the optical out will help my dropout issues. I doubt it... but I guess it never hurts to try.

I'm using the optical audio out with my Sony receiver, and I still experience some audio dropouts, though these seem to coincide with visual glitches as well.

Jen

The state of TWC-NYC in College Point, Queens, NY…

Setup/Equipment

Livingroom:
Pioneer 3510HD connected via DVI to an NEC 61XM2/S 61” Plasma Display and Coaxial Digital Audio Output to a Rotel RSP-1068 SSP. Former Box used was a SA3100HD via component.

Bedroom:
SA8000HD connected via Component Video to a Samsung LTN-226W 22” LCD Display using analog audio hookup. Former Boxes Used SA3100HD via component and Pioneer 3510HD via DVI.

Basement:
SA8000 connected via Composite Video to a Panasonic 20” CRT. Formerly connected to the NEC 61” Plasma in a dual box setup.

Overall the Pioneer 3510HD is the best box I have used to date for both HD & SD. There are no annoying audio dropouts or picture anomalies as there were with the SA3100HD and DVI works. HD via DVI vs. Component is not a night and day difference; however, it is better, cleaner, and overall an outstanding picture. SD is well, SD. Some channels look very good, and some not. Overall SD quality is acceptable; the problem is I find myself watching less and less SD. I am not a good source for SD info as I accept it for what it is, not very good.

The box is not without its problems though. DVI and the box are flaky with the NEC as it does not always synch to the correct signal on initial startup and locks into 720 x 480. The 3510HD is autosensing on the DVI port and reads the EDID data from the DVI input on the display and sends whatever signal the display is capable of receiving (480p, 720p, & 1080i). The NEC is capable of receiving all signals. This is very annoying and requires a shutdown of the display and box to fix the problem. This happens about 85% of the time on initial startup. The other problem with the box is that it shuts down and reboots when switching inputs and it loses DVI signal. If I switch to component to watch a DVD the box will crash and reboot itself. This problem did not exist on the Samsung LCD when using the 3510HD DVI because the Samsung only accepts its NR 720 via DVI. So, some of this problem can be attributed to the way the NEC sends out the EDID information.

Originally I had the SA8000 DVR as a second box in the living room, but found that I hardly used it because of the logistics of having two boxes in the same location using the same remote codes, having to switch inputs to watch something, and quickly losing interest in anything SD. I was able to directly compare the SA8000 to the 3510HD for SD. The SA8000 was hooked up via S-Video and the 3510 via both Component and then DVI. No competition, the 3510HD produced a better picture for SD via both Component and DVI. My feeling is that none of them were great, but overall the 3510HD was better so I stopped using the SA8000 all together and decided to put it in the basement as an extra box and use it to record non-critical items, mostly used by my wife. Our computers and desk are in the basement area with the TV so it comes in handy down there.

Up until last week, I had a second 3510HD in the bedroom feeding the Samsung 22” LCD Display. Originally I had it hooked up via component until the DVI problem was fixed several months ago. With the Samsung, brightness and color are better via component, but the signal is cleaner via DVI. I still flip back and forth which image looks better Component or DVI. Component allowed for NR pass through so whatever was 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i was accepted and processed that way and DVI only allows 720p so the box was converting everything to 720p. I used the DVI input as going back and forth between the two was a toss up.

With all the hoopla last week, I got caught up and traded in the 3510HD for the SA8000HD. I almost wish I hadn’t. The 3510HD was/is that good. The SA8000HD via component is not very good, both SD and HD. HD is acceptable, but I feel like I am back to the old SA3100 with frequent dropouts and picture anomalies etc. SD is not great via component, very noisy. I did not even try S-Video or running in SD mode as I have no interest in jumping through hoops to switch inputs to go between SD & HD etc. Recording so far has been acceptable and there do not seem to be any dropouts during recording. Hopefully the software will be worked on, the DVI activated and the box will improve. If not, at some point in the future I hope there is a replacement. I would never consider putting this in my main viewing environment.

TWC-NYC, what can I say. I hate it, but the alternatives are not so great either. With Fox finally going to 720p, having all the major networks including PBS (locals) in HD sans UPN & WB can not be duplicated without going OTA. From what I have been reading in the OTA thread there is no guarantee of receiving all those channels and forget about PBS (13) and UPN without standing on your head and doing tricks. If the signal and reception were reliable OTA and I could duplicate what I have and add UPN and WB, then I might possibly give Voom a try, but reading those threads some of the installation stories are nightmares.

The most frustrating thing is knowing that the programming is available and not having it. I hope things change soon.

Originally posted by timewaster
I don't have the DVR yet. but If you record ch4, it should record in SDTV. With the season mode, if you pick ch 704 ER, then it should record the high-def one, if you choose ch4 ER in your season mode, then it should record sdtv. So depending on which channel you choose in your season mode, it will record either the HD or SD version. Since I don't have the DVR yet, Maybe someone else on this forum can confirm.


from what i've read - its a 160g hard drive allowing for 20 hours of HD, or ~80 of SD

also - we've got it made here in the good 'ol USA - in toronto they are apparently changing $800 (not sure if thats Canadian dollars - but either way big bucks or even bigger bucks)

as far as the issue mentioned earlier that while a show is recording you can't select "play from beginning" last night i went to the list menu - selected a show that was recording (6 feet under) and it started playing it from the beginning (i just hit the play button - not the select button).

Has anyone noticed whether or not the Passport Echo software in NYC on the 8000HD supports this "Search" feature (see link below). On my 8000SD we just had a "Title" option - hit the "C" button - when browsing using the IPG. This feature is totally useless - you can select the first letter of the show you are looking for but then have to sit there and scroll through hundreds, often thousands of shows to find the one you are looking for. The Search function seems much more like Tivo's interface which would be a huge improvement in the functionality of the 8000HD.

Going to check to see if my 8000HD has Search or Title later - if it has Title, then maybe Search will be enabled when they roll out the upgrade to enabled DVI - wishful thinking :)

Here is the link (go to "Title or Keyword Search" in the lower left):

http://www.pioneerbroadband.com/passportecho/passportecho.asp#

Nope, we have the "C" button labeled as Title rather than Search as well.

Jen

That's what I figured. Oh well. At least the feature exists in some version of the software. This was by far my biggest gripe w/ the software on the SD DVR, having used Tivo for a few years previously.

Whoever thought that watching TV would be so complicated?

I picked up my HD DVR box on Friday from the Kissena location in less time than it took for me to find a parking spot. That's the good news.

I never experienced any time shifting device before, so my initial judgement was clouded by the 'wow" factor. This feature is truly amazing and convient.

Now that the initial thrill of that has subsided, I can discuss the performance more clearly.

Audio drop outs are continuos and intolerable. As Phil said, I agree, this new box is not as good as the Pioneer 3510 HD and the dropouts are reminiscent of the old SA 3100 HD. I rarely experienced drop outs with the Pioneer box. Now I feel like my HT experience is regressing.

I am also seeing, as Jen described, video anomalies. I notice what looks like a hair line crack in the same spot going from side to side on the screen, about 30 % from the top. It appears on a regular basis, lasting for less than a second. It occurs every couple of minutes. It’s absolutely irritating.

I can only get a picture with the YpBpPr connections. Forget about zooming or stretching SD through the SA 8000HD. The SD image is not viewable when this is attempted. However, the fogging that John was talking about, that I also experienced while viewing SD via the YpbPr connections, is no longer apparent. If you watch SD, through this hook up, it looks good, however, you have to watch it in 4X3 mode. Previously, with the Pioneer, I was able to view SD via the S video connections. With this set up I had a fine, fog free, 16X9 image, thanks to the "auto frame" feature on my panny. This is something that I will miss. My TV handled the "stretching" or "zooming" with no apparent visual loss. This feature does not work with the component hook up.

I do enjoy the SA 8000 HD’s PIP, now I have three pictures, along with the panny’s OTA hook up. That’s an amusing capability.

By the way, I called TWC to complain about the S video not functioning properly. They said that there must be something wrong with my SA 8000 HD. They set up a free service call to replace the box with a new one. I’m looking forward to what happens when they swap them out later this week. This should be an entertaining house call.

My verdict is still out. On one side of the scale I have the intriguing time shifting capabilities and on the other side, annoying audio drop outs, along with video glitches, and no decent 16X9 SD picture. I’ll see what happens with the service rep. (Ha!) this week.

Larry

Hi Larry,

Just to clarify, the S-Video output will only function if you switch the DVR into SD mode, as opposed to HD mode. This is accomplished by holding the Channel + button (on the box), then pressing the Volume - button (also on the box) and releasing both. After a moment, either HD or SD should appear on the box's display. You can repeat this action to switch from one mode to the other. At present, I am not aware of any SA8000HD boxes that can utilize both component and s-video outputs at the same time (the way the 3250HDs did), unless you have something playing in the PIP window, which will also pass data to the s-video feed regardless of what mode the DVR is in.

Also, as for the visual glitches I see with my box, they are not confined to one place on the screen, but occur in various location, sometimes as just silvery or black pixilated blocks, sometimes as a silvery or black line.

Jen

Larry --

The 8000HD does feature both zooming and stretching of a 4:3 picture to fill the 6:9 screen through the VIDEO SOURCE button on the remote, which, when pressed repeatedly, will cycle through those modes as well as sidebar.

Jen, thanks this is helpful, I’ll fiddle with that SD / HD mode tonight just out of curiosity but it doesn’t sound convenient. I guess that is what Phil meant by "jumping through hoops". Isn’t it funny though that the TWC rep doesn’t know this and they offered to swap out my box?

Mantus, thanks for that information but maybe I wasn’t clear in my post. I understand and have tried what you said. The problem is that by utilizing the VIDEO SOURCE button, it greatly reduces the picture quality in either zoom or stretch. I didn’t have this problem before with my previous Pioneer box utilizing my TV’s "auto screen" mode on S Video. This picture now looks as bad as SD did via component on the Pioneer box.

However, the artifacts are lesser with this new box via component and in 4X3.


Thanks,

Larry

Larry,

I find that what I've been mostly doing is leaving the box in SD mode so that my TiVo can have control to record any suggestions. The DVR will record HD programming in HD for later playback while in SD mode. I find I only put the box in HD mode for playing back recorded shows anyway, since I've become so spoiled by TiVo's time-shifting ability that I hardly ever watch "live" TV anyway. As for switching, having to get off the sofa & press some buttons on the box isn't so convenient, but its better than having to unplug actual cables to switch between outputs :-P

Jen

I was just going to ask if anybody actually called TWC about these problems? Maybe ill call them and have them bring in another box to see if my problems go away. ha ha yea right

It may not be too inconvenient to have to switch modes but it's completely unnecessary - very poor design. I don't understand why every other HD box allows you to output S-Video and either Component or DVI at the same time, but this box doesn't. I can understand not letting you send component and dvi at the same time - digital piracy concerns - but S-Video?

On top of that, the box doesn't pass native 480i through component, which it should do, but deinterlaces it and passes 480p. So you are forced to use the box's crappy deinterlacer with component (with DVI, it makes sense, but not with component). This slows channel changes and degrades PQ.

I will likely still keep this box and will just have to train myself to get used to the SD PQ. HD looks decent and I plan to keep my SA3250 at least until DVI is activated on the 8000HD. But SD is what I'm really struggling with.

Originally posted by LL3HD
...I guess that is what Phil meant by "jumping through hoops".

What it boils down to for me is convenience. I do not want to switch inputs when going from HD to SD and back. It is a compromise at best. You have to decide what is important to you.

Originally posted by EricScott
On top of that, the box doesn't pass native 480i through component, which it should do, but deinterlaces it and passes 480p.

What make you say this? 480i is selectable as an output when using component and my display confirms 480i in when on an SD channel. Nothing is broadcast in 480p, just unselect it in the output options and leave 480i, 720p, and 1080i and the box will pass through what it receives via component.

Originally posted by pciav
What make you say this? 480i is selectable as an output when using component and my display confirms 480i in when on an SD channel. Nothing is broadcast in 480p, just unselect it in the output options and leave 480i, 720p, and 1080i and the box will pass through what it receives via component.

Interesting. Didn't think of unselecting 480p :) I currently have all four formats selected. I thought I read somewhere that the box won't output 480i over component, but I could be completely wrong. What I do know is that with my current configuration, all SD channels come through as 480p on my Samsung. HD comes through as 720p or 1080i. Nothing comes through as 480i. Will give it a shot later. Maybe that will improve my SD viewing experience.

Now if you can come up with a way to get rid of the gray pillar bars, I'll be set. BTW, I tried what others had suggested earlier - using Stretch 4:3 on the STB and setting my TV to 4:3. It does work but the picture isn't great and all of the menus / IPG, etc are squeezed and distorted. So not a good option for me.

Let's just hope this is an imminent software upgrade. Scrolling through 100's of shows beginning with the letter A is retarded.

Also, anyone know anything about a 16:9 program guide? That would be nice.

L

Originally posted by EricScott
Has anyone noticed whether or not the Passport Echo software in NYC on the 8000HD supports this "Search" feature (see link below). On my 8000SD we just had a "Title" option - hit the "C" button - when browsing using the IPG. This feature is totally useless - you can select the first letter of the show you are looking for but then have to sit there and scroll through hundreds, often thousands of shows to find the one you are looking for. The Search function seems much more like Tivo's interface which would be a huge improvement in the functionality of the 8000HD.

Going to check to see if my 8000HD has Search or Title later - if it has Title, then maybe Search will be enabled when they roll out the upgrade to enabled DVI - wishful thinking :)

Here is the link (go to "Title or Keyword Search" in the lower left):

http://www.pioneerbroadband.com/passportecho/passportecho.asp#

i recently traded "up" my HD box for the 8000HD; i now have both the 8000 and the 8000HD connected simultaneously. i was originally planning on returning the 8000 once the HD-DVR was available, but now i'm thinking of keeping both. :)

way i figure it, i now have the best of both worlds... the non-HD 8000 is used for all my SD viewing, in my living room and bedroom (using a simple 2.4ghz av transmitter and ir repeater). it only outputs 4:3 480i, but thats ok, because my panny plasma has a pretty good "justified" non-linear stretch mode. When i want to watch HD, i switch my panel to it's component input, and use the 8000HD. i end up with twice the recording capacity, and i can now record 4 (Gasp!!!) shows at once... 2 of them in HD. i'm paying an extra 9$ a month for the priveledge, but i think its worth it, so far. now, if only there was a way to network the two together for a shared "now playing" list... and if only there was enough high quality HD broadcasts!

pciav,

So I tried unselecting 480p as a supported Output Format (have 480i, 720p and 1080i selected) - with the box in HD mode, my Samsung DLP (720p NR) shows all SD channels in 720p. It shows 720p HD channels in 720p and 1080i HD channels in 1080i. I cannot get the box to output 480i over component. That being said, SD channels in 720p do look a lot better than in 480p - saves one step of processing.

What type of TV are you using that lets you send 480i over component from the 8000HD? I have one of the newer Samsung models (the HLP5063) with component inputs that support all 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i so that's not the issue (as Manatus mentioned earlier, the HLN Samsungs had two different component inputs which accepted some resolutions but not all).

Anyone else able to pass 480i over component from the 8000HD? If so please post your setup.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric,

Is you Samsung capable of receiving 480i over component? Some models have SD and HD component inputs??? As stated previously, I have an NEC 61XM2/S 61" Plasma and a Samsung LTN-226W 22" 1280 x 720 LCD. Both accept 480i via component. On the NEC there is a menu option for de-interlacing that only appears when a 480i signal is input. I will double check again later when I get home.

Try unslecting everything but 480i and see what happens.

Originally posted by comport
i recently traded "up" my HD box for the 8000HD; i now have both the 8000 and the 8000HD connected simultaneously. i was originally planning on returning the 8000 once the HD-DVR was available, but now i'm thinking of keeping both. :)

way i figure it, i now have the best of both worlds... the non-HD 8000 is used for all my SD viewing, in my living room and bedroom (using a simple 2.4ghz av transmitter and ir repeater). it only outputs 4:3 480i, but thats ok, because my panny plasma has a pretty good "justified" non-linear stretch mode. When i want to watch HD, i switch my panel to it's component input, and use the 8000HD. i end up with twice the recording capacity, and i can now record 4 (Gasp!!!) shows at once... 2 of them in HD. i'm paying an extra 9$ a month for the priveledge, but i think its worth it, so far. now, if only there was a way to network the two together for a shared "now playing" list... and if only there was enough high quality HD broadcasts!

what 2.4ghz av transmitter are you using?

Hi all - I've read loads of posts but managed to miss something - and I've got a problem...

1) using the 8000HD, how does one select the output? I can switch between HD / SD (figured that one out). But where do you select 480i / 480p / 720 / 1080 - etc?

2) the BIG problem. I've got everything hooked up right, I know I do...Brand New Panasonic HDTV (32"...yeah I know - not 16:9 nor particularly fancy, but it's what I could afford and what fit in my furniture)...component from the HD box to the TV, component in from the DVD to the TV (which works very nicely). Also have the coax from the HD box to the TV, and RCA audio out from the HD box to the TV (for now). I can get the TV to work from the Coax - and I get all the channels...albeit with a slightly distorted picture. BUT when I swith it to use the component video input from the HD box I get an ugly grey with a purple tinge screen with loads of dots. The signal looks clearer (behind all the interference) but no matter what, I can't get it to work. Does anyone know what the heck this newbie is doing wrong? Audio is working via RCA stereo outputs and via coax (although seems to be mono on that). Help?

>>>>EDIT<<<< oh - and I've got a Time Warner Techy coming on Wed. but I really don't want to wait! *Thanks*

If you are getting video out of the Coaxial cable hookup, then your 8000HD is in SD mode. When in SD mode, the Green portion of the component cable is turned into the SD composite signal, which results in the monochrome image with dots. Also when in SD mode, your Settings menu will not have options for Aspect Ratio or Resolution. I recommend trying again to switch the box to HD mode by holding the Channel + button (on box) and pressing the Volume - button (on box) until you see HD on the box's display. Currently you cannot get video on both component and s-video/composite/coaxial at the same time, without using the cable box's PIP function.

Jen

ok - I tried that - and the box reverted back to SD by itself - I got a nice clean HD component vid signal for a second...and then wham, it went right back to SD output. This made me think I got it right, but the box was seeing something that was faking it out.

SO....I tried removing the coax from the TV...then I did the cycle through again...I think I actually hit the channel down button too by accident and....EUREKA!!

So - who wants to help me with the right output settings? 1080i and 480p only. right? or...do I want 480i, too? (32" 4:3 box supports 1080i and 480 only - no 720)

EDIT / ADDITIONAL COMMENTS - WOW! HD looks really nice -regular TV looks all grainy now ...guess that's what you get. One weird thing - and I noticed this when I first plugged in the box - no sound. It took about 2 hours before the sounds showed up last time. I hope not this time.

EDIT 2 - no sound = reboot.

Originally posted by pciav
What make you say this? 480i is selectable as an output when using component and my display confirms 480i in when on an SD channel. Nothing is broadcast in 480p, just unselect it in the output options and leave 480i, 720p, and 1080i and the box will pass through what it receives via component.

As mentioned above, my Samsung's component inputs accept 480i.

I tried the following combinations in the output formats option:

1) 480i only - displays 480i for all channels
2) 480i and 720p - all channels (including SD) came in at 720p
3) 480i and 1080i - all channels (including SD) came in at 1080i
4) 480i, 720p and 1080i - all channels (other than 1080i HD channels) come in at 720p and the 1080i HD channels come in at 1080i.
5) 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i - SD @ 480p; 720p HD @ 720p; 1080i HD @ 1080i

#4 appears to be the best solution for my display - I prefer SD in 720p to 480p.

So to summarize:

- 480i + anything else, results in the box outputting whatever else you choose

- for SD the box appears to default to the lowest resolution progressive scan output format you choose (480p over 720p and 720p over 1080i) if multiple formats are selected. Not sure if this would vary on a 1080i NR set.

- for HD, assuming both 720p and 1080i are chosen, the box passes through each channel as is.

Very weird. Not sure why 480i is being totally bypassed here.

Eric,

Just tried 480i & 1080i = all 1080i for me, too.

Originally posted by Manatus
There is no extra charge for a regular HD box; there is an extra charge ($8.95/month, I believe) for a DVR.

There should be no reason why you couldn't use the analog outputs on a TWC HD box with you current TV until your new set arrives. You should check on TWC's current policy on self-installation of a HD box; at one time, it required a service call to verify the presence of a HDTV.

Thanks for the input Manatus and Rock The Mullet. And There is a $9 charge for DVR which I'm not willing to pay (I just got rid of 4 premiums, which I may regret come the New Sorprano/Curb season). Does everybody agree that the SA 3250 box is the best to ask for? How about the Pioneer box, I've read some good things.

Originally posted by Manatus
There is no extra charge for a regular HD box; there is an extra charge ($8.95/month, I believe) for a DVR.

There should be no reason why you couldn't use the analog outputs on a TWC HD box with you current TV until your new set arrives. You should check on TWC's current policy on self-installation of a HD box; at one time, it required a service call to verify the presence of a HDTV.

Hmm..the TWC people told me that there was no additional charge. Apparently it was all BS. I don't really care about 9 beans - I'm so happy to have the DVR it doesn't matter much to me. Then again, different strokes for different folks.

And again, I asked the TWC rep if the SA 3250 HD box would work with my analog Sony Wega and she said no. Who knows? You can try it out, but risk it not working. Or just go and swap boxes the day before your set will arrive, like I did.

Originally posted by Rock the Mullet

And again, I asked the TWC rep if the SA 3250 HD box would work with my analog Sony Wega and she said no. Who knows? You can try it out, but risk it not working. Or just go and swap boxes the day before your set will arrive, like I did.

Well I have a 3250HD hooked up to an old JVC 20" TV in the bedroom. Works great and small footprint easily fits on top of the TV.

As long as it can put out a 480i signal why wouldn't it work?

But why would you want to use an HD box on an SD TV?

Hi All,

As an ex-tivo user I am having some real issues with the 8000HD. Can someone help me out here.. it's driving me nuts.

When I am watching a channel and a scheduled recording starts on the other channel, the box SWITCHES channels, even though there are two receivers (i am not recording two shows at once)... Even more annoying.. after the recorded show has finished (and I am still watching the other channel) it switches over AGAIN.. grrrr

If you ask it record all shows it records multiple instances of the same show, it should know not to do that. (this is distinct from repeats). I end up we 6 episodes of West Wing repeats half of which are the same episode.

When you record all shows on all channels but only want to keep one (like the latest episode of BBC news, don't care which channel just want the latest one) it gets confused if the same show is on multiple channels at the same time and keeps all the recordings.

Is this NOT annoying anyone else...? Have I been so spoiled by tivo..? should I not expect better for a product released 4 years later.

L

P.S. And don't even talk to me about the program searching

Originally posted by rgrossman
As long as it can put out a 480i signal why wouldn't it work?

But why would you want to use an HD box on an SD TV?

Only because I asked if I could change out the box now so I'm "all ready" when the new tv arrives. Maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. :D

Originally posted by vadalus
Hi All,

As an ex-tivo user I am having some real issues with the 8000HD. Can someone help me out here.. it's driving me nuts.

When I am watching a channel and a scheduled recording starts on the other channel, the box SWITCHES channels, even though there are two receivers (i am not recording two shows at once)...


How with the Tivo are you able to watch one show live... and record another show live at the same time?

Originally posted by vadalus
Hi All,

As an ex-tivo user I am having some real issues with the 8000HD. Can someone help me out here.. it's driving me nuts.

When I am watching a channel and a scheduled recording starts on the other channel, the box SWITCHES channels, even though there are two receivers (i am not recording two shows at once)... Even more annoying.. after the recorded show has finished (and I am still watching the other channel) it switches over AGAIN.. grrrr

If you ask it record all shows it records multiple instances of the same show, it should know not to do that. (this is distinct from repeats). I end up we 6 episodes of West Wing repeats half of which are the same episode.

When you record all shows on all channels but only want to keep one (like the latest episode of BBC news, don't care which channel just want the latest one) it gets confused if the same show is on multiple channels at the same time and keeps all the recordings.

Is this NOT annoying anyone else...? Have I been so spoiled by tivo..? should I not expect better for a product released 4 years later.

L

P.S. And don't even talk to me about the program searching


after you set up the show to record - select the "list" button - then select the show you set up to be recorded - you will see a "recording options" button - in there you can select "1st run only" and many other options.

First run only would not record *any* West Wings as all the shows are repeats. First Run refers to to whether the show has been aired before.

Originally posted by shk718
after you set up the show to record - select the "list" button - then select the show you set up to be recorded - you will see a "recording options" button - in there you can select "1st run only" and many other options.

You cannot, unless you have a Direct TV Tivo. Being able to record two channels is a major benefit over a regular TIVO: which is why the strange behaviour is particularly annoying--I almost managed to "sell" the 8000HD to my wife (over TIVO)--it changing channel all the time is making it a hard sell

:)


Originally posted by DjPiLL
How with the Tivo are you able to watch one show live... and record another show live at the same time?

I think I'll eventually get the 8000HD when DVI is activated. However my Pioneer box has been acting up lately. Video, over DVI, drop outs randomly. It was a daily event, sometimes a few time a day. It stopped for a week, then started back up again this past weekend, but hasn't happened since sunday. I think I will swap it out for a 3250HD and have that hold me over until the DVI on the 8000HD is activated.

Vadalus, I'm with you.

Hopefully Tivo will be announcing an HD model that doesn't require DirecTV sometime soon. (I was talking to a Tivo rep the other day about something else, and asked about HD. He said that in meetings when reps ask about that, the management folks have started getting very quiet, as opposed to before when they would just say no.) With any luck, there will be a cablecard ready HDTivo on the market in time for the holiday shopping season. (In my dream world, it has slots for two cablecards, for a pair of tuners.) As soon as such a thing is on the market, it's replacing my 8000HD.

What was particularly annoying for me was that I called TWC with some support questions for the 8000HD, and the rep was trying to convince me that the interface is better than Tivo. I suppose that's true if "better" is a euphamism for "under the complete control of the cable company."
-JMP

It seems really stupid that it would change the channel on you if the other tuner is not recording something. I guess one thing you can do is record the current show you're watching, then it shouldn't switch channels on you.
I don't have the DVR, but logically this might work.

If and when Tivo releases a cable card HD stand alone tivo, it will definitely have two tuners. The only reason the existing stand alones don't have two tuners is b/c it's really impractical to have the Tivo connected to two separate cable boxes with two sets of IR blasters, etc - imagine how complicated Guided Setup would be for the average user.

As a long time Tivo user (and huge fan of the product - I think I've personally convinced 20 people to buy one), the Explorer DVR definitely takes some getting used to. I don't think anyone would argue that the software isn't up to par with Tivo. That being said, the hardware features of the Explorer are far better than the stand alone Tivo - two tuners, records dolby digital, no analog to digital conversion on digital channels resulting in dramatically better PQ, etc. For those of us with HD displays, stand alone Tivo usually looks horrible, so the PQ difference matters quite a bit.

If you look at one of my earlier posts (from yesterday in this thread) you will see a link to the Passport site where they show the newest version of the software, which includes a dramatically improved Search by Title interface - very similar to Tivo actually. The current interface where you select the first letter and scroll for hours until you find the show is utterly useless.

The two tuner functionality has definitely not been perfected in the Explorer. If you hit the "Swap" button (for PIP) on the remote, usually this will let you swap between tuners, although it doesn't always seem to work. The box by default seems to want to always use the first (active) tuner for recordings. I don't think it understands that you are watching something on the active tuner (duh) and that is should use the other tuner for recordings - definitely a design flaw. But still way better to have two tuners than 1 tuner.

If you follow some of the other Explorer threads, you will see the software has actually come a long way. You used to not be able to play a show that was recording from the beginning, if say you got home in the middle of it. Now that's a major problem.

The 8000HD definitely has its issues - I'm debating myself whether or not to keep it - not because of the DVR features/interface but b/c of the PQ relative to my existing setup (one 3250HD for HD and one 8000SD DVR for SD), the gray pillar bars which I hate and the audio dropouts. It's not for everyone but if you are patient I expect the product to improve quite a bit in the coming months.

The reason why the box switches channels when a recorded program starts... is because it feels that if you took the time out to record it... you place this as hi-priority and it will change the channel figuring you will want to watch it.

I like this behavior. If you want to avoid this... just record the show you are currently watching.

er.. riiight,

not quite sure whether that makes sense to me.. why would I record it if I wanted to watch it live...? Anyway, pressing record as you say should sort it out, I just then have to delete the show when I am done.






Originally posted by DjPiLL
The reason why the box switches channels when a recorded program starts... is because it feels that if you took the time out to record it... you place this as hi-priority and it will change the channel figuring you will want to watch it.

I like this behavior. If you want to avoid this... just record the show you are currently watching.

Spent some time using the 8000HD last night (first time I've spent more than a few minutes using it) and definitely noticed a few issues.

1) Pixelation - During both live and recorded shows, on both SD and HD, I periodically see these bands of blocky pixels (maybe two inches thick of varying lengths) come across the screen. Usually only lasts a second and they appear in different places each time. When I noticed them during live TV, I rewound to see if they were still there and they were - suggesting that this behavior is actually recorded - either in the buffer (for live TV) or as part of a scheduled recording. Pretty annoying but not a huge deal.

2) Audio Dropouts - This is a well documented and apparently widespread problem with the 8000HD. Usually I just get audio dropouts when switching channels - it takes a second or two for the audio to pop in after the video comes in (coupled with the video lag when changing, it takes a few seconds to totally change channels). When I switch from a DD5.1 to a DPL II channel (and sometimes vice versa), I often hear a loud pop (a clipping sound) when the audio comes in, which is not very pleasant. However, last night I also noticed a fair number of audio dropouts while watching a show (I wasn't pausing, rewinding, etc, just watching). The audio would kick out and come back fairly quickly. When this happened, I rewound to see if it was part of the recording and it was NOT present. I experience the dropouts on SD as well as HD channels and on live as well as recorded shows. I currently have the box hooked up to my Onkyo 600 receiver via optical and may attempt to switch to coax at some point. Anyone know if the dropouts are more widespread with one type of connection vs. another?

3) Output Formats - As mentioned in a previous post (from last night), I currently have the "Output Formats" option on my box set to 480i, 720p and 1080i, hooked up via component to my Samsung HLP. This prevents SD channels from being output at 480p. Instead all SD comes through as 720p - I cannot get them to come through as 480i, unless I unselect all other output format options (480i only) and then HD comes through as 480i. HD channels come through as either 720p or 1080i with my current setup, depending on the NR of each channel, which is good. I find that the SD PQ at 720p is far better than at 480p, and generally have been more pleased with SD viewing at this setting. I still hate the gray pillar bars but that's another story.

I went into the diagnostic screen and had the following settings:

ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.5.062
OS Version: PowerTV 6.4.9.1sp

In an earlier post on the 8000HD thread (read a while back and can't seem to find it), another user (TW in Cinci I believe) reported having the EXACT (there are a number of other settings that matched exactly) same version of the software but was subsequently upgraded to Passport Echo 1.5.075. Not sure what the improvements were exactly but at least we know there is a newer version of the software out there.

Also was able to see how much free/used space I had on the drive in the diagnostic screen. It listed 150.6 GB (total), 99.5 GB (used) or 66% full. I had recorded exactly 14 hrs of HD material and zero SD, which implies 21hrs of HD storage capacity. Not sure if the used space included some room for the buffer, which was an SD channel at the time.

I still haven't decided what to do with this box. SD PQ is definitely acceptable at 720p over component and HD PQ looks pretty decent. However the gray pillar bars and the constant audio dropouts and video pixelation are definitely annoying. I don't think I will be happy keeping this as my only HD box and still have to determine if it replaces the 8000SD DVR for SD.

Sorry for the longwinded post.

are there any audio dropouts with the HD DVR if you use the analog audio outputs?

Haven't tried the analog outputs.

I have my 8000HD in SD mode hooked up to my TiVo with the analog sound out & s-video, and I just had an audio dropout unaccompanied by any video glitching (though I do see video glitching through the s-video out from time to time, since getting this cable box).

Jen

Yes, there are. It seems to get dim and then kick back in to full audio...it's very strange.

I also get the occasional 'ripple' pixelation bar on the screen via component - it's on recordings, too. I recall the same thing happening when TW first went digital...so I guess I've learned to live with it.

Frankly, after a day or so with this box, the 480p on SD is pretty lacking. I know it can do better - just open up the guide and the windowed video looks gorgeous. My TV can't handle 720p ... so I'm not sure what I'll do about it....except learn to live with it (Again)...I might go out and pick up some better cables and see if that helps. Also - TW keeps saying DVI is activitaed on the box...go figure.

Don't waste your money on expensive cables. As long as your current cables are well shielded and you aren't getting interference you won't see more than a 5% improvement no matter how much you spend.

They told me DVI was activated when I picked it up - they don't know what they are talking about. The box has a DVI out, which is where I think they get confused. You would think it its there it would work - which I guess is a rational assumption, but clearly TW's reps aren't that familiar with TW's service :)

If you TV supports 1080i, then try that. If you save one step of processing, it will look better than 480p. With 480p the box deinterlaces the signal and then the TV scales it - not ideal.

The thing that bugs me if I leave 480p unselected is that it forces my cable box to do the "pillar boxes" on SD content, instead of my TV, which is much better. For example, I have my DVR hooked to the TV via component cables, and I believe I set the cable box to a 4:3 aspect and letterboxed 16:9 (this seems to have no effect on my 16:9 set receiving properly sized HD content, but it ensures that my TV, not the cable box, will set the display size of a 4:3 image). Then, I set my cable box to pass 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions. With this arrangement, the HD content is properly widescreen, and the SD content is scaled by my TV and I don't have to look at grey pillar bars. However, when i disable 480p, my set defaults to its 16:9 setting, forcing the cable box's 4:3 sizing and grey pillar boxes. My set only defaults to 16:9 if it is receiving a 720p or 1080i setting, which leads me to believe the box's component cables are NOT passing a 480i signal for SD programming. This is just based on my observations, however, and I'm not making any definitive statement here.

Jen

Originally posted by jennydee
The thing that bugs me if I leave 480p unselected is that it forces my cable box to do the "pillar boxes" on SD content, instead of my TV, which is much better. For example, I have my DVR hooked to the TV via component cables, and I believe I set the cable box to a 4:3 aspect and letterboxed 16:9 (this seems to have no effect on my 16:9 set receiving properly sized HD content, but it ensures that my TV, not the cable box, will set the display size of a 4:3 image). Then, I set my cable box to pass 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions. With this arrangement, the HD content is properly widescreen, and the SD content is scaled by my TV and I don't have to look at grey pillar bars. However, when i disable 480p, my set defaults to its 16:9 setting, forcing the cable box's 4:3 sizing and grey pillar boxes. My set only defaults to 16:9 if it is receiving a 720p or 1080i setting, which leads me to believe the box's component cables are NOT passing a 480i signal for SD programming. This is just based on my observations, however, and I'm not making any definitive statement here.

Jen

Yes - pretty sure the box isn't passing 480i (unless it is the only format selected - see my post from yesterday on the previous page). But what you said about setting the box to 4:3 instead of 16:9 - never thought to do that. If it eliminates the gray pillar boxes (which everyone knows are my biggest issue) it may be worth it to watch 480p vs. 720p SD.

So you have it set to 4:3 and Letterboxed 16:9 but acutally watch 4:3 with pillar boxes (created by the TV not the box) as opposed to stretched, correct? Sounds like a plan.

Sorry, it took me so long on the 480i issue, but I double checked with several settings on my NEC Plasma where I can see the signal being received and you are correct. 480i is not passed via component unless it is the only resolution set.

The 4:3 trick and 16:9 Letterbox does work. You may have to play with which 16:9 setting works best, it should be letterbox, but I found when experimenting that on some 4:3 channels the squeeze mode made for a better non-linear stretch when using the displays stretch mode. Again, this goes backt o inconveniences and should not be's. If this is your only HD box, this is a hard box to live with.

How often does these audio dropout/video pixelation occurs?
Let say I'm watching TV for 2 hrs, how often would they occur?

Originally posted by timewaster
How often does these audio dropout/video pixelation occurs?
Let say I'm watching TV for 2 hrs, how often would they occur?

Excluding the channel changes and the occasional dropouts when pausing or rewinding - just regular dropouts while watching live tv - I would say audio dropouts could easily happen 5 times (maybe more, maybe less) in 2 hours. Each time it only drops out for maybe a second. Pixelation is more frequent. I would say 10 times over 2 hours maybe.

Quick question for anyone who watched/recorded CSI:Miami on 702 last night. Was it broadcast in 4:3 or 16:9? When I recorded CSI last Thursday, it played back as 16:9, and last week's CSI:Miami on my 3250HD was 16:9, but last night's episode is playing back in 4:3 with grey pillar bars (yuck!). I just tested my other HD channels, and I am getting a 16:9 feed from all channels that aren't currently showing 4:3 content. Just wondering if anyone else is seeing the same thing.

Jen

Originally posted by jennydee
Quick question for anyone who watched/recorded CSI:Miami on 702 last night. Was it broadcast in 4:3 or 16:9? When I recorded CSI last Thursday, it played back as 16:9, and last week's CSI:Miami on my 3250HD was 16:9, but last night's episode is playing back in 4:3 with grey pillar bars (yuck!). I just tested my other HD channels, and I am getting a 16:9 feed from all channels that aren't currently showing 4:3 content. Just wondering if anyone else is seeing the same thing.

Jen

CSI was broadcast as 4:3 last evening. After the program started, I switched from TWC to my OTA receiver, and both were 4:3. Someone asleep at the switch, perhaps.

Thanks! Good to know it wasn't a configuration issue on my end :-)

Jen

Originally posted by jennydee
The thing that bugs me if I leave 480p unselected is that it forces my cable box to do the "pillar boxes" on SD content, instead of my TV, which is much better. For example, I have my DVR hooked to the TV via component cables, and I believe I set the cable box to a 4:3 aspect and letterboxed 16:9 (this seems to have no effect on my 16:9 set receiving properly sized HD content, but it ensures that my TV, not the cable box, will set the display size of a 4:3 image). Then, I set my cable box to pass 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions. With this arrangement, the HD content is properly widescreen, and the SD content is scaled by my TV and I don't have to look at grey pillar bars. However, when i disable 480p, my set defaults to its 16:9 setting, forcing the cable box's 4:3 sizing and grey pillar boxes. My set only defaults to 16:9 if it is receiving a 720p or 1080i setting, which leads me to believe the box's component cables are NOT passing a 480i signal for SD programming. This is just based on my observations, however, and I'm not making any definitive statement here.

Jen

Jen,

Tried the 4:3 / Letterbox method and as far as I can tell this does exactly the same thing as selecting 16:9 / Stretch as your aspect ratio. In both cases widescreen comes in fine and to get pillar bars (reverse the stretching) on 4:3 channels you need to put your TV in 4:3 mode.

16:9 / Stetch, however, allows you to unselect 480p (so all SD is output at 720p), whereas 4:3 / Letterbox only works if 480p is selected.

In either case, you need to deal with the fact that the IPG and menus are all condensed, b/c they were 4:3 to start with and the TV is effectively squeezing them by making the image 4:3 again - annoying, but not as annoying as the gray pillar bars.

On my Samsung there is no auto sizing mode - I have to put the TV in either 4:3 or Wide, so when I change from a SD channel to an HD channel I need to change the Picture Size on the Samsung - pretty easy to due, a button on the remote toggles through the options.

So I guess 16:9 / Stretch is a decent temporary solution - it elimates the gray pillar bars with the added inconvenience of the squeezed menus/IPG and having to change the Pic Size on my Samsung when going from SD to HD.

Anyone notice any PQ loss (from stretching and squeezing vs. leaving the 4:3 picture alone) or additional channel changing time (for all of the processing) by leaving the set in this mode?

I'm glad 16:9/stretch is a decent workaround for you Eric :-)

Unfortunately, due to my set's inability to "squeeze" 720p feeds down to 4:3, I have to make due with the 4:3/letterbox solution. Guess that's just one more difference between the Sony & Samsung sets, huh?

Jen

Geez, I come back from a week vacation and this forum is ALL LIT UP! Let me give you my own little story and see if people think it's worth it for me to get the 8000HD DVR.

I currently have the Pio 3510, component for HD and S-vid for SD. I also have the 8000SD DVR via S-vid. I get audio dropouts and/or pixelation on the 3510 (moreso on HD than SD) maybe once or twice every 10 minutes or so when it is at its worst and they sometimes come in bunches. It's not terrible, but definitely noticeable. Otherwise the 3510 is great for SD and HD. The picture on the SD DVR is horrid, but I only use it for recording, which is a minority of my viewing.

Trying to summarize the 8000HD experience here so far:

SD picture: most say better (maybe because of switch from DVI)
HD picture: most say worse, one says equal
Gray bars: not too popular
Menus: not as good as Tivo
SD connection: no simultaneous S-vid and component
Watching while recording: can you not go back to the beginning of a show?
Dropouts/Pixelation: yes
Channel change/remote lag: delay as long or longer than 8000SD

Gray bars I can live with and I'm used to the 8000SD menus (never had Tivo so I don't know what I'm missing). If the SD connection is component, then I won't be able to use the "Just" mode on my panasonic plasma for filling the screen. If I want to stretch, I'll have to use the stretch or zoom from the cable box, which I find inferior. The delayed channel change/lag in response to remote commands on the 8000SD drives me nuts; not a problem for me on the pio.

So, a switch for me has these benefits: (1) one box instead of two, (2) savings of $9/month and (3) ability to record HD content.

These drawbacks : (1) inferior HD picture, (2) no use of Panasonic Just mode (SD), (3) as long or longer delay on changing channels and (4) some wierd quirk where you can't watch a program from the beginning during the recording (?).

And this wildcard: dropouts/pixelation

I think only one person chimed in on the channel change delay. Any other input?

You guys have been providing great information and I'd appreciate any advice on my particular quandry.

Thanks.

This thread is great. I was going to rush down to 23rd Street and pick up the HD DVR box. Now I am going to wait awhile and see what everyone thinks about the PQ and about dropouts. I have the Pioneer 3510 box and have been happy with the PQ for both HD and SD via component. I have had very few dropouts, which is terrific considering that I was plagued with them on the SA box. I would love to be able to record HD so that I can timeshift but I don't want to sacrifice PQ or endure dropouts.

Please keep posting your observations since the feedback is very worthwhile.

Has anyone had their 8000HD crash and reboot on them while watching a scheduled recording from the beginning before it is done recording? This has happened to me a handful of times so far. It seems to mostly happen when fast forwarding.

Hi - I'm new to the forum and wanted to thank you guys for all the posts - it's clued me on to a few things. Currently I have the SA3100 box but it sounds like I'm losing out on PQ. I have a Sony with DVI input on the back that is currently not being used. I run the SA3100 using the component cords TWC provided to me. I have Tivo and due to the posts, I'm not interested in checking out the 8000 HD DVR until they've worked out the bugs. So here are my questions -

What benefits would I see from upgrading from the SA3100 to either the SA3250 or the Pioneer box? And which of those two boxes is better?

thanks,

Larry: I would recommend the Pioneer box. I had many dropouts while using the SA3100 which disappeared when I switched to the Pio box. In addition, with the Pio box, you can stay on one input and use component cables to watch both HD and SD. (If I recall correctly, with the 3100, I had to switch inputs to watch HD.)

Originally posted by larrykroger
What benefits would I see from upgrading from the SA3100 to either the SA3250 or the Pioneer box? And which of those two boxes is better?

A-Bing the 3100HD with a converter not plagued with a faint white image fog for YPbPr outputs, as I've done with RCN Motorola converters, reveals definite advantages for some displays. RCN's images are crisper (no contrast-spoiling fog) and more 3D like with the darker blacks. Might take a larger higher-contrast screen--plus a comparison converter--to reveal the fog. I use a 64-inch CRT RPTV. Not everyone has been bothered by it. No one has mentioned fog problems with the converters you mention, but others who have used them can outline their pros/cons better than I. So I've been using RCN for its larger HDTV lineup and TWC and its 3100HD for great digitally delivered SD S-video (RCN's SD is heavily analog), awaiting both a de-bugging of the 8000HD and TWC's addition of new channels so I can drop my RCN subscription.. -- John

Well I recorded my first HD show today on the 8000HD. Recorded Father of the Pride on NBC and just got finished watching it. There were next to no audio dropouts... but I did notice a decent amount of pixelation.

Picture looked real good though (the computer animation probably helped this). My dolby digital light didnt come on though on my Sony Receiver. Was this show in 5.1 or just 2.0?

sickman, you left out 1 thing - the tv guide have been reported to be significantly faster on the DVR than on the Pio 3510. I have the Pio and the tv guide is slow as hell

Hey all:

Just got my high-def box (SA-3250HD) from TWC and been watching for a few days. This is my first real HD experience, though I am no newbie when it comes to home theater.

I'm looking for some real basic info re: TWCNYC like when are new HD channels to be added (if at all), what's the best way to search for HD schedules in advance, that sort of thing. I've read the first 5 and last dozen or so pages of this thread, but I'm clearly coming into the middle of things. Hope there's a few links that you know of to help me.

As far as the box goes, my chief complaint right now is the horrible lip-sync issues that I'm having with broadcast TV (2, 4, 7 etc). These are similar to those I experienced years ago with the original roll-out of digital cable - mostly confined to the lower channels' digital sound. There is serious video lag.

I've got the video output with component cables, and the audio uses either digital coax or RCA (analog) to my receiver. The analog exhibits little or no lip sync issues, and the digital seems fine on higer channels, especially 100 and above. Is this problem common, and is it a funtion of the box? Does this indicate that I should swap out the box?

Also, is the DVI output active on this model? I've read some posts, and I think it is, but before I go through the trouble of getting a DVI->HDMI cable to work with my TV I thought I'd ask the knowledgable people.

Have not yet played around with the ouptput options (480i/720p/1080i) and have them all turned on now as my TV (Sony XBR960) can seemingly adapt to them all. Other's experience would be nice to hear, though I'll most likely try them out for myself anyway.

Thanks!

Originally posted by timewaster
sickman, you left out 1 thing - the tv guide have been reported to be significantly faster on the DVR than on the Pio 3510. I have the Pio and the tv guide is slow as hell When you say "tv guide", do you mean the menu you use to see what's on? The menus are pretty quick on my pio. It's a little slower when I'm on an HD channel than on an SD channel, but it doesn't bother me that much. Not compared to the slow channel changing on the 8000SD DVR.

Doug,

DVI is definitely active on the 3250. In my opinion the picture quality is signficantly better over DVI. DVI may also help your lip sync issues since there will be no digital to analog conversions from the box to your TV - the more processing you do to the video the more likely you are to get an AV sync issue.

However, I can say that I have never experienced an AV sync issue through either component or DVI on any of my HD boxes (I have rarely used component though) - I have used the Pioneer 3510, the SA 3250 and now the SA 8000HD (this one uses component). Not sure what would cause the sync issue. Do you notice it on other inputs on the TV - say DVD. Lots of people experience AV sync issues with gaming systems - usually if they are connected with composite or s-video.

I, too, recordeed Father of the Pride HD signal - and saw serious pixelation...have a TW tech coming today - who wants to bet that he'll say I need to rewire the joint?

I discovered a weird quirk on the 8000 HD. When I use the remote to change the channel and press the new channel number buttons, I then have to press the select button too. On my Pioneer all I had to do was enter the numbers of the channel and a second or so later the channel would appear. Anyone else notice this? Having to press the select button stinks.

Also, just to update my thoughts on the 8000HD after a few days of use.

The Pioneer box was superior for me, over all. Hardly any audio dropouts compared with the 8000 HD and the PQ was far superior in SD.

The PQ on SD with the 8000 HD is horrendous compared to the Pioneer. The zoom or stretch mode only enhances the artifacts to an unacceptable point.

Switching from HD mode to SD mode is not easy and provides no better PQ. However, in SD mode the picture size can be altered in my TV, which is a good thing. The screen modes in my panny, Just, Auto, Zoom, etc, are enabled but it is still a sub par SD picture compared to the Pioneer.

And playing with the 16:9 versus the 4:3 in the 8000 HD and then using its screen adjustments is still inferior to the TV’s screen adjustments on the Pioneer box in S Video

The only positive is the ability to record or time shift in HD.

I don’ know what to do. I would hate to set up the Pioneer box along side the 8000 HD in order to watch SD. This is not the way I want to go.

And, I have the service call tomorrow for a direct swap out of this 8000 HD box because of my complaints regarding the S video not working (Ha!). I know that they are not going to succeed tomorrow and give me a new 8000 HD with working component and S video connections but I’m hoping that a new box will perform better. This stinks because I’m sure that the new box will be just as crappy and I’ll lose the several hours of HD stuff that I already recorded.


Larry

I've recently started to get serious Lip Synch problems on my PIO HD box in the past 60 days. I'm talking a full 1-2 seconds synch gap. It's very annoying. I've noticed it mostly on NY1 and it's happening with more frequency. I don't think it's the input, but I'm not sure. I believe it is the box because I don't have any synch issues on my SA8000 SD DVR in the other room. I'm using DVI. I find that the problem is resolved by power cycling the box.

Overall, I really like the Pio Box, but it does have some quirks. My IPG is very sensitive (too responsive), which seems to be unusual given that others say it is slower? It also has some audio issues as well on HD channels. Last night I got sucked into some PBS HD show on the Dead Sea and every minute or two the audio would 'pop' and the sound level would drop a few decibles and then the sound slowly increase for about a minute or two and then repeat. I've noticed this happen on occasion.

I'll going to wait on the DVR until we get a new HD channel of substance or the DVR get's active, even though I'm dying to get it.

Drew

Originally posted by LL3HD
I discovered a weird quirk on the 8000 HD. When I use the remote to change the channel and press the new channel number buttons, I then have to press the select button too. On my Pioneer all I had to do was enter the numbers of the channel and a second or so later the channel would appear. Anyone else notice this? Having to press the select button stinks.


Noticed the same thing this morning. I'm pretty sure you didn't need to do this before - as in yesterday. Don't know what happened.

BTW, in the other 8000HD thread, someone (TW Albany I believe) reported an active DVI, although it doesn't appear to be working too well. Seems like he has SARA as well.

So I finally came to a conclusion about which box to keep - I'm going to keep the 8000HD and return my 8000SD (I will also keep my SA3250).

Thanks to the advice of jennydee and pciav, I played around with the aspect ratio settings to try to eliminate the dreaded (for me anyway) gray pillar bars. I found that if I leave the box in 16:9 / Stretch mode and leave my Samsung DLP in 4:3 (as opposed to Wide), then I have a pretty clear SD image with black, NOT gray pillar bars. As mentioned above, the only real annoyance is that all of the menus and the IPG look squeezed - not a big deal - much easier to have to deal with this every now and then as opposed to looking at the gray bars all day long. Also I now need to flip my Samsung into Wide (simple toggle button on the remote) when I am watching a HD channel.

I now feel that SD looks as good, if not slightly better than it did on my 8000SD. Yes I have audio dropout and yes I have pixelation, but the fact that I can timeshift HD (or record a hell of a lot more SD) is enough of a plus to me to mitigate these issues. And hopefully over time as the software improves, so will these issues.

I will still keep my 3250HD because the HD PQ is superb and I don't want to sacrifice that for any live viewing I will do - especially sports and what not.

Of course today, there is added annoyance of having to press select after entering a channel number to change channels (see above) but hopefully that is just a temporary glitch.

Once DVI support is made available, I'm sure I will have another annoying few days of trying to decide whether I prefer DVI to Component, but I guess that's a high class problem :)

Originally posted by drew138
I've recently started to get serious Lip Synch problems on my PIO HD box in the past 60 days. I'm talking a full 1-2 seconds synch gap. It's very annoying. I've noticed it mostly on NY1 and it's happening with more frequency. I don't think it's the input, but I'm not sure. I believe it is the box because I don't have any synch issues on my SA8000 SD DVR in the other room. I'm using DVI. I find that the problem is resolved by power cycling the box.

Overall, I really like the Pio Box, but it does have some quirks. My IPG is very sensitive (too responsive), which seems to be unusual given that others say it is slower? It also has some audio issues as well on HD channels. Last night I got sucked into some PBS HD show on the Dead Sea and every minute or two the audio would 'pop' and the sound level would drop a few decibles and then the sound slowly increase for about a minute or two and then repeat. I've noticed this happen on occasion.

I'll going to wait on the DVR until we get a new HD channel of substance or the DVR get's active, even though I'm dying to get it.

Drew

Drew,
I've encountered the exact same problem with PBS with my Pio box. The audio problem you've described only happens on PBS, so I'm guessing its a problem with PBS. For those of you with a non-pioneer box, do you experience the same things with PBS? It happens quite frequently.

Originally posted by EricScott
I will still keep my 3250HD because the HD PQ is superb and I don't want to sacrifice that for any live viewing I will do - especially sports and what not. So the HD PQ is so bad on the 8000HD that it's worth it to you to keep 2 boxes? That's a pretty rough statement about the 8000HD.

Originally posted by Sickman
So the HD PQ is so bad on the 8000HD that it's worth it to you to keep 2 boxes? That's a pretty rough statement about the 8000HD.

The HD PQ is not bad at all on the 8000HD. But after getting used to the superb HD quality over DVI on the SA 3250 and the Pioneer 3510 before that, I don't think I could be completely content using a component connection on the 8000HD. This may all change once DVI on the 8000HD is enabled, but for the time being I'm keeping my 3250.

Obviously my goal was to replace my two existing boxes with the HD DVR but given the tradeoffs I'm already making for SD, I couldn't do it for HD as well.

If the 8000HD was your first HD box and you didn't have any basis of comparison you would be more than satisfied with the HD PQ.

Another consideration is that last time I wanted to add an HD box about 2 months ago (I had one HD box and the SD DVR at the time and wanted a 2nd HD box), I had to schedule an installation visit - they would not let me pick up an additional HD STB at 23rd St. So I really want to avoid doing that again, if I change my mind at all.

For some reason I no longer need to hit Enter when changing channels on my 8000HD. I did unplug my box to rewire some things so maybe the reboot fixed it.

Also, wanted to report that I am now using coaxial digital audio instead of optical and I seem to be having less audio dropouts - esp. when going from DD5.1 channels to DPLII (DD2.0) channels - with optical I would always get this loud popping sound that rarely occurs with coaxial.

Originally posted by EricScott
For some reason I no longer need to hit Enter when changing channels on my 8000HD. I did unplug my box to rewire some things so maybe the reboot fixed it.

Also, wanted to report that I am now using coaxial digital audio instead of optical and I seem to be having less audio dropouts - esp. when going from DD5.1 channels to DPLII (DD2.0) channels - with optical I would always get this loud popping sound that rarely occurs with coaxial.

FWIW: I never had the "enter key problem" and haven't rebooted my 8000HD since I installed it a week ago. I'm using coax audio with this thing and haven't heard any dropouts (except just after changing channels).

OK, how about this. If I am watching something that I recorded a while back and a program that is *currently* being recorded, finishes.. it switches over to that channel.... why?

Jeez, this is baaad.


Originally posted by vadalus
er.. riiight,

not quite sure whether that makes sense to me.. why would I record it if I wanted to watch it live...? Anyway, pressing record as you say should sort it out, I just then have to delete the show when I am done.

Originally posted by EricScott
I found that if I leave the box in 16:9 / Stretch mode and leave my Samsung DLP in 4:3 (as opposed to Wide), then I have a pretty clear SD image with black, NOT gray pillar bars.




Why doesn't this work for me? I have a Samsung too, 30 inch. I'm very sure I tried that and I'll try again when I get home. This is what I did - I went into the cable box settings, chose 16:9, stretch 4:3 picture, then exited. Go to the Samsung menu and select 4:3.

That's obvious I guess. Should I put the Samsung in 4:3 before going to the cable settings, after, or does it matter? Is there another setting, perhaps in the service menu, that I need to change?

Originally posted by mabrym
Why doesn't this work for me? I have a Samsung too, 30 inch. I'm very sure I tried that and I'll try again when I get home. This is what I did - I went into the cable box settings, chose 16:9, stretch 4:3 picture, then exited. Go to the Samsung menu and select 4:3.

That's obvious I guess. Should I put the Samsung in 4:3 before going to the cable settings, after, or does it matter? Is there another setting, perhaps in the service menu, that I need to change?

Is your TV a 16:9 display? If it is, this should work - doesn't matter if you put the Samsung in 4:3 before or after. Think about it this way, once you set up the cable box all 4:3 material will be stretched. The 4:3 on your TV simply squeezes it back to regular size and puts the black bars on the sides. For widescreen material you need to leave the tv in wide or its squeezed too.

Yes, no more pressing select button while changing channels for me too. This was corrected after re- booting.


However, I didn’t initiate the re- boot. It occurred on its own. It seems that while utilizing the P-I-P feature and changing the "small picture" channels with the little + and - buttons, it tends to freeze up and crash. This happened three times last night. I just have to remember to swap the pictures first before changing the channels.

Funny, I’ m experimenting with the opposite of what Mantus and Eric just did- I disconnected my coax and connected the optical to test the audio, since I had tremendous audio dropouts with the coax.

By the way, had the TW service call this morning to swap out the SA 8000 HD because of the S Video not functioning. I know, I know- it’s not working for whatever reason but hey, I’ll go along with it, they set up the call and insisted that the S Video was supposed to be functioning, so what the heck, come on over. The service rep. climbed up his ladder along side the telephone pole, tested everything, changed some connectors and cables, disconnected everything on my system, re connected everything... and finally concluded that the S Video does not work.

Well Duhhhh!

Oh well, at least he didn’t swap out the box, so I still have all of my recorded stuff …and… he claimed he fixed some problems. We’ll see..



Larry

Originally posted by LL3HD
It seems that while utilizing the P-I-P feature and changing the "small picture" channels with the little + and - buttons, it tends to freeze up and crash. This happened three times last night. I just have to remember to swap the pictures first before changing the channels.

Is there a way to enter channel numbers for the small display directly when in PIP mode?

Originally posted by wzpgsr
Is there a way to enter channel numbers for the small display directly when in PIP mode?

Not that I have discovered.


Larry

Originally posted by vadalus
OK, how about this. If I am watching something that I recorded a while back and a program that is *currently* being recorded, finishes.. it switches over to that channel.... why?

Jeez, this is baaad.

I've found that when I'm watching pre-recorded content and recording something live, and it finishes (as you describe above), it flashes "Recorded" - it looks like its changing the channel, but it does not actually change it.

I think the box is just trying to say "Hey man, I finished recording this show for you - watch it whenever you want."

At least, that's my box.

I'm Pro-DVR (previous box was the Pioneer). HD quality is reduced and pillar bars are annoying, but overall I like the little box. It's come through for me on some big TV nights already, when I was out. And, its seemed to have figured out how to properly *only keep the most recent episode* of Sportscenter (which it used to mess up all the time). It's not going back. Let's just get that DVI port running already!

Originally posted by EricScott
Is your TV a 16:9 display? If it is, this should work - doesn't matter if you put the Samsung in 4:3 before or after. Think about it this way, once you set up the cable box all 4:3 material will be stretched. The 4:3 on your TV simply squeezes it back to regular size and puts the black bars on the sides. For widescreen material you need to leave the tv in wide or its squeezed too.

Well, it doesn't work for me. On the DVR I'm using component video, of course, and my TV won't allow me to change sizes in component mode. On the other cable box I have, using composite, the TV puts in grey bars.

This sucks! I can't stand them, but I can't stand a stretched picture for anything other than sports.

Chalk this up as another annoyance (it has to be a bug) in the 8000HD Passport software. When you are watching a recorded show and switch to Live TV (something I do quite often; pause and then go to Live TV) and then you try to go back to the recorded show, it keeps starting at the beginning!!! So annoying. My 8000SD definitely did NOT do this. I've already watched like 15 mins ahead in a few shows b/c it started over and I did the 15 min skip too far.

Sure hope this is fixed in the next software release (boy this list is getting longer).

Mike,

Out of curiosity, what brand of TV are you using? I find that my Sony also won't let me change from its "Full" setting when it receives a signal of 720p or 1080i over the component cable from the cable box. What I do is make sure 480p is also enabled in the DVR's settings, and then select a set aspect ratio of 4:3 with 16:9 letterboxed. Even though my TV is a 16:9 set, I find that with these DVR settings, the 720p & 1080i content comes through as widescreen, but the set uses its own 4:3 mode for SD channels over the component inputs (being sent to the set in 480p), rather than having to deal with the grey pillars.

Jen

It's a Samsung 30 inch widescreen. It only accepts 480p and 1080i. Those are the settings in the DVR. I do get black bars when watching 4:3 on the HD channels, usually commercials. I've even tried setting the TV to 4:3.

On my second cable box, a Pioneer which used to be used for HD until I got the HD DVR, I did get black bars through component video. On all channels, not just HD. I'm not using component on that one now because it is connected to the TiVo, an older model which doesn't accept it. It used to be connected directly to the TV as well as TiVo (component to TV, composite to TiVo) but I can't do that anymore because the TV only has 2 component inputs, and one is being used for the DVD.

I could get a splitter and connect that 2nd box to 2nd component input, but even if I did I would not be able to pause or rewind live TV. And besides that, the picture is not as good as what I'm getting through the DVR. SD looks quite good, actually. If I could just get rid of the grey bars I would be perfectly happy with the TV and the DVR, but I don't see how I can.

Just saw on the weather channel ticker, TNT HD will be added on 10/8. Three other channels will also be added, non HD ofcourse.

Originally posted by DND
Just saw on the weather channel ticker, TNT HD will be added on 10/8. Three other channels will also be added, non HD ofcourse.
Flipped on the weather channel and saw 2 other scrolls about a bunch of channel moves and deletions from service, including YES being removed from channel 143 and only available on channel 80 eff. 10/8. Looks like TWC is making big changes, maybe part of the plan to add HD content.

Yeah, baby, yeah!

Maybe soon my grey bars won't be so much of a problem. I'll just become a snob - if it ain't in HD I ain't watching it!

I just paused with the Replaytv and it reads:
"Effective 10/8, Black Family Chl, Ch152 & Goodlife TV Ch 153 added to DTV.
WNBC Weather Ch 731 will be added for all digital customers. TNT HD CH.710 launches for HDTV customers"

The good news is we'll have a new HD channel the bad is WNBC weather would multi-cast the HDTV channel and reduce the bandwidth.

once again just saw a ticker for new channels. new starz (246), a few cinemax channels.

meteor maybe you could try the replaytv thing again..

Originally posted by Meteor

The good news is we'll have a new HD channel the bad is WNBC weather would multi-cast the HDTV channel and reduce the bandwidth.

Actually, that would further reduce the bandwidth. WNBC-DT has been multi-casting for quite some time. TWCNYC just hasn't carried Channel 4.2 (a sleep-inducing rebroadcast of stale news).

for those of you who are replaytv/tivo challenged ;)

"New channels effective 10/8: STARZ Kids, WMAX, @MAX, Five Star Max, and Outer Max.

CSTV is added to Sports package.

Bangladesh and German TV launch as Premium Foreign language channels."

So, the audio dropouts... For me it seems worse on shows I record. For example I recorded Aliens Resurection (I know it's the worst one) and when I played it back the audio kept dropping out. I tested with the optical as well as the coax connection. With the coax connection though the dropputs prodcue a cracking sound during the dropout.

For what it's worth, I don't notice as many dropouts in DD 5.1 shows as a do in Dolby Pro Logic II shows, like Aliens Resurection.

Adam

US Open looks great in HD on CBS. But I've noticed a ton of audio dropouts and video stuttering/pixelation on my 8000HD. Anyone else noticing a significant amount of dropouts?

Yes, tons of audio dropouts and pixilation. This is over coax, no reason to think the optical output would be differerent.

Well shiver me timbers. I go away for 3 weeks and you guys get to have all the fun beta testing my next box ;) Thanks to all who discovered the release of this thing, and have been patiently (?) working through the issues. I'm mid-renovation and so don't need to pull the trigger for a couple months if not more. Hopefully the software will be upgraded to resolve the main issues and the DVI port will be turned on.

Cool about TNT too. Thanks everyone.

TM

Just curious - does anyone know what TNT HD is really going to bring us in terms of good HD content? Maybe a few movies here and there, some upconverted syndication, but anything of real substance?

Was studying TNT's schedule seeing what HD was lined up this week--assuming it kicks in with HD at 8 pm; I'll believe it in 16 minutes. Seems like endless 30-minute law program reruns for a while, with an HD movie at the end of the week. Wish they'd had TNT-HD up and running a few weeks earlier when it carried the PGA Championship match weekdays. -- John

yeah, I'm not expecting much for TNT HD, but you never know.

Anyone care to speculate as to when we may possibly get Starz HD, or...even HD NET?

If you’re a basketball fan, TNT HD will be great.:)

I have not followed any of the tnt-hd threads. I just checked the official site but am a little unsure about what they show. Are those shows true hd? Or are they stretched and upconverted?

I am looking forward to the basketball season, although I would have preferred inHD, so we could have watched the Knicks.

New title, huh?

Noticed this weekend that on my 8000HD, when a scheduled recording starts on a channel other than the one you are watching live, the box does NOT switch you to the channel it begins recording. I know many people reported this a major inconvenience. Not sure if this is a permanent fix or if I just got lucky a few times.

Anyone else notice major audio / video dropouts during (gasp!) the North Shore last night on Fox Widescreen? It was unwatchable on both my 3250HD and my 8000HD.

Yes, there were major audio dropouts on North Shore. I guess I wasn't the only one experiencing them.

Was the North Shore in 720p or 480p? It looked pretty damn good. Wasn't aware that Fox was broadcasting 720p yet but football season starts in less than a week (thank God) so who knows.

Hey they changed my title! :) I guess they changed them all...

TM

i'm assuming if we ever get inHD1 and 2, HDNet, and HDNet Movies that they are gonna make up some sort of "premium HD package" right.

besides TNT-HD are there any other freebie HD channels that we may get? how about the WB?

Maybe ESPN-HD?

I live on Staten Island and I was one of the first SI HD subscribers. TWC leased me an SA-3100HD box. Awful device!

I recently purchased a stand alone TIVO. I intended to attach it to the 3100HD's Super Video port and record the HD shows at 480I.

It turns out that the 3100HD does not down convert and no image is outputted from the SV connection when the box is tuned to an HD channel.

I understand that later SA boxes will down convert and output the image on the SV connector. When I inquired about swapping the 3100HD for a later box I got the following response from TWC Customer Service

"Thank you for your recent message to Time Warner Cable.

Currently we do not have a box that will convert the signal for recording purposes. We are currently in the process of launching our HD-DVR converters and should be available to you soon.

If you have any additional questions or need future assistance please contact us at support@twcnyc.com or call our 24 hour Customer Support XPRESSLINE at 212-674-9100 or 718-358-0900.

Sincerely,

Time Warner Cable
Customer Support"

Is this correct? I was under the impression that the 3100HD is obsolete and no longer distributed and that the current box will accomplish what I want.

What's the best approach to getting my box exchanged?

Originally posted by Richard Smith
I live on Staten Island...What's the best approach to getting my box exchanged?


Move.

Sorry, I'm originally from SI so I feel like I'm entitled to tease you about it ;) No harm intended :D

TM

The TWC Pioneer HD box will output a standard (NTSC 480i) signal from HD channels but it will be "squeezed" for 16:9. Why do you want this?

Originally posted by LawrenceB
The TWC Pioneer HD box will output a standard (NTSC 480i) signal from HD channels but it will be "squeezed" for 16:9. Why do you want this?
To record of course. Any widescreen TV can unsqueeze the picture on playback.

But you can get the same channels already in SD and record them just fine, no?

Speaking from my own personal experience....once I started timeshifting shows (a few years ago with my first stand alone Tivo and later the TW SD DVR), I pretty much stopped watching live TV. That was of course until I got my first HDTV about 4 months ago. Once I started watching HD, I didn't want to watch SD, which meant I was forced to watch live TV again. So when the HD DVR was made available and I could have my cake and eat it too - watch HD when I want, it was a must have.

I was also hoping the HD DVR would be good enough to replace both of my existing cable boxes - my HD box and my SD DVR. Unfortunately with the HD DVR, I had to make some comprimises in HD quality and to a lesser extent SD viewability (gray bars, etc). However, I ultimately concluded that I would hang onto my regular HD box for a little while longer, at least until DVI is enabled and return my SD DVR.

I think a lot of people would agree, there is a lot of a value to an HD DVR.

Originally posted by LawrenceB
But you can get the same channels already in SD and record them just fine, no?
At lower quality and not in widescreen. Not at all ideal for movies.

A NEW HD CHANNEL

Bob Watson, in response to an e-mail of mine told me they "announced" that TNT-HD will be added to NYC TWC's offerings on October 8!!! He also said they were still planning to add an HD "package" by the end of this year. Unfortunately he said still no deal with Disney for the two HD ESPN networks, but that he would love to add them to the HD Package as soon as there is a deal.

TNT-HD

Sorry for the old news. I'm out of NYC at the moment and didn't see the earlier posts or the WC scroll.

TNT-HD??? Not to be a pain but that's probably the HD chhannel I'd want the least. I mean how much time do you spend watching SD TNT?

So what about ESPN or MSG??? "Still negotiating" = Cheap!

For those of you in Staten Island interested in the HD-DVR, I called today and they said they won't have them until next week.

The reason I bought the TIVO (see above) is because the SOB's at TWC told me last Tuesday that they had [lenty of the HDTV DVR's in their SI office ready to go. They even gave me a transaction number so I could swap for the new box with no problem!

On Saturday when I showed up with my old 3100HP at their Richmond Avenue office the counter people advised me that the TWC customer service people did not know what they were talking about and that their head-end (on SI )was not set-up for the HD-DVR box. When pressed they were vague about when everything would be ready to go. At that point besides myself with anger I vowed NEVER to deal with these useless morons again.

Planning to buy to Direct-TV TIVO I then spent the afternoon in my backyard trying to find a place where I could mount a Direct-Tv dish. Alas, I can't get a line on the satellite!

In frustration I went to CC to buy something to replace my Replay DVR which has had a recent disc crash. They had a good deal on the 40 hour TIVO and I bought it.

If TWC was to offer their box and programming for nothing I would tell them to get lost!

Seems like many people are having the same experience with TWC. They sell you a HD-DVR on the phone and tell you to go pick it up. Then the folks at the store don't know what you're talking about and don't have any in stock. You have just wasted your time. It's really amazing they can run such a terrible operation.

Originally posted by Richard Smith
In frustration I went to CC to buy something to replace my Replay DVR which has had a recent disc crash. They had a good deal on the 40 hour TIVO and I bought it.! I feel your pain. They still can't get me enough signal to run both my HD box w/o glitches and my cable modem. They'll be here for the fifth time sometime when I can be home for an appointment.

I am fortunate enough to live in an area where the HD DVR is supported, so I have no use for my old Replay. I think I have the 3000 (?), but would have to look when I got home. Last time I tried to use it, it wouldn't work, but if you have more experiece with them you might have more luck. I'd be willing to let you have it for cheap (far less than the CC Tivo box you bought), if you're willing to deal with the hassle of getting it and it potentially not working.

Anyway, thought I'd offer--let me know via post or PM.

dpc

Revisiting the grey vs. black bars question, since I get black through SD pictures on HD channels (Scientific Atlanta box), and grey on everything else, and since my other cable box (Pioneer) showed black bars on everything, it seems the cable box determines the color. A Samsung rep said the TV would show grey.

Is there any chance we will ever get a Pioneer DVR?

Originally posted by perrycampf
I feel your pain. They still can't get me enough signal to run both my HD box w/o glitches and my cable modem. They'll be here for the fifth time sometime when I can be home for an appointment.


It sounds like you're having problems similar to the ones I faced. After over a year of trying to get TWC to acknowledge that the problems I experienced were not so isolated, I've got the direct number to someone in their Public Affairs office.

Call (718) 670-6626 and you'll reach Ed Urbanowski, who is a senior person in Public Affairs. Tell him about your five service appointments for what should be a routine install. Expect him to provide solutions to problems, and demand them if he resists. (Don't worry, he'll resist.)

One of the things he promised me was in the works was a way for a person who's having a recurrant problem with install (like you're having) to be able to consistently reach the same human when calling, so you don't end up explaining your story from the beginning each time.

I hope this is of some help.
-JMP

Mabrym,

When you are watching non-HD content on an HD channel, the bars that you see are sent by the broadcaster - they are sending you a widescreen image, which consists of the 4:3 image plus their side bars. So in that case the broadcaster determines the bar color. I'm pretty sure CBS HD uses gray and most others use black.

For non-HD channels, the STB determines the side bar color. As you noted, the 8000HD puts gray bars on everything. The Pioneer 3510 used black bars.

So it's really a combination of the STB (for SD channels) and the broadcasters (for HD channels) determining the side bar color. For example on my Pioneer, I saw black bars for every single channel, except when watching 4:3 content on CBS HD. On my 8000HD I see gray bars on every single channel, except when watching 4:3 content on HD channels other than CBS HD (i.e. NBC HD, ABC HD, Fox HD).

What kind of Samsung do you have? A DLP or a plasma? My DLP definitely creates black bars. I would imagine that it's possible that Samsung plasmas create gray bars, although I have no idea if that is in fact the case.

In the meantime, until we get an option to set the sidebar color through the menus on the 8000HD (likely to never happen w/ Passport although you can do it with SARA), the "stetch/squeeze" method, described earlier in this thread is a pretty good fix on my Samsung with black bars. Set the aspect raio on the 8000HD to "16:9 / Stetch" and then set your Samsung to 4:3 while watching 4:3 content that you want to squeeze back to normal or to Wide while watching widescreen content.

I doubt we will ever see a Pioneer DVR. Pioneer appears to be exiting the STB hardware business and focusing on their Passport Echo software. In fact their website, which you used to be able to access at Pionner Electronics has moved and now only shows software features. Plus TWC is now giving out SA 3250 HDs and SDs as their standard boxes. When I was at the 23rd st. office last week there were piles up to the ceiling of those boxes. So I don't think you will ever see a Pionner box from TWCNYC again.

My Samsung does not allow me to adjust picture size using component video. What if I were also to connect the SC box with S-Video, coaxial, or composite video? I think I read here that s-video won't work, will the latter two?

Is it possible that the SC box can be hacked?

Originally posted by mabrym
My Samsung does not allow me to adjust picture size using component video. What if I were also to connect the SC box with S-Video, coaxial, or composite video? I think I read here that s-video won't work, will the latter two?


Nope. If the box is in "HD Mode" only component works. If it is in "SD Mode" everything but component works (excluding DVI of course). In order to switch modes you have to hit a few buttons on the box itself - can't even do it from the remote.

So you pretty much have to get used to SD viewing with Component.

What kind of Samsung do you have that puts in gray bars and won't let you adjust the picture size using component?

On my HLP5063, if you feed the TV 480i over component you can select "Wide", "Panorama", "Zoom 1", "Zoom 2" or 4:3". If you feed it 480p, 720p or 1080i you can select "Wide" or "4:3". The 8000HD does not output 480i while in "HD Mode" so you are left with the 2nd set of options.

It's the TXN3750WHF, or maybe it's 3057. If I'm watching component and try to adjust it says "not available." The cable box is set for 1080i and 480p. Yesterday I also added 480i but I see that doesn't matter. 720p is not supported.

Quick question...does the 8000HD DVR have a HDMI DVI connector in the back or a regular DVI? Thanks!

I don't think DVI is active right now on the 8000HD.

Originally posted by DjPiLL
I don't think DVI is active right now on the 8000HD.

I am preparing to buy a plasma and wanted to know what the 8K HD DVR box has before committing to it.

Thanks.

The 8000HD has a DVI port but as DjPill pointed out, it is not currently working. TWC claims that they plan to activate it at some point.

DVI vs. HDMI shouldn't matter much since HDMI is backward compatible with DVI. You simply get a DVI to HDMI cable and the video will work fine without any loss in PQ. The audio obviously won't transfer but you will most likely run that direct to you AV Receiver anyway.

TIME WARNER CALBE AND ESPN REACHED A DEAL FOR TWC TO CARRY ESPNHD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Check out this thread (scroll down): ESPNHD-TWC Discussion. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=416911&perpage=20&pagenumber=8)

It's already appearing on some TWC affiliates. I'm emailing Bob Watson to see how soon we can expect it in NYC.

This is huge news.

Nothing on the Ch 72 crawl.

Originally posted by jergans
I'm emailing Bob Watson to see how soon we can expect it in NYC.


My personal over/under is Q3 2005 ;)

TM

Hopefully they'll give us ESPN instead of TNT.

this is the worst news ever. Now there is another really good channel that we will not have. :(

Exactly what has to happen in order to be able to add INHD 1&2, HDNET & HDNET Movies, & ESPN-HD? TNT-HD is just not acceptable. This is getting extremely frustrating. HD-Pack $9.95 a month, no problem.

I'm sure TW will ensure that ESPN HD arrives just after football season ends...

In my last correspondence with Bob Watson last week he stated it is "realistic" that we will see an HD tier "with or without ESPN-HD" around Nov1 of THIS YEAR. I assume that would be INHD1&2 HD Net and Movies and ESPN HD.

They will get the HD tier on line as soon as possible. If there is one thing that TWCNYC has demonstrated is that when it comes to making decisions, decisions that generates revenue happen much quicker than decisions that do not.

Jets game is not in HD? Checked the IPG and looks like the Giants game won't be either?

I thought pretty much all of the CBS games were supposed to be HD.

VERY disappointed.

Giants game is listed as HD in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=391168

hopefully, the ipg is wrong.

Optimum output res for projector?

At my office I have the NEC LT 240k projector, which has a native resolution of 1024x768. The HD signal from my cable box (the old Pioneer) doesn't pop like it should...

Question: should I output the signal from the box at 1080i or 720p? The image at 720p appears to be a bit better, at least for the SD Jets game... Any thoughts appreciated.

Originally posted by EricScott
Jets game is not in HD? Checked the IPG and looks like the Giants game won't be either?

I thought pretty much all of the CBS games were supposed to be HD.

VERY disappointed.
My guess they are using most of the HD resources covering Tennis in Flushing. Giants game on Fox would be in HD.

Fox HD is broadcast at 720p, right?

The Giants game looks good so far...

Just switched over to Fox for the Giants game. Watched last few minutes of the Washington Tampa Bay game. Audio dropouts are all over the place. As of late I am noticing more and more dropouts on both SD and HD. The audio dropouts on Fox 705 so far are making this almost unwatchable. I am disgusted with TWC.

Tons of dropouts but it looks good. Decided to run the audio through my TV so at least I don't get any clipping through my speakers.

I'm glad to hear that I wasn't the only person with audio dropouts. It is sounding better though now that they have switched over to the game, but it was really bad in the studio.

Originally posted by EricScott
Tons of dropouts but it looks good.

Ditto here (with the SA8000HD). After I switched over to OTA Fox-HD, the dropouts vanished, showing that, in this instance, at least, the problem lies with TWCNYC and/or the DVR.

Very strange: Watching Giants game on Fox-HD (705) has audio drop outs using SA 8000HD-DVR, but SA CC using the same signal on ths same TV has no problems.

BTW, what is the OTA channel number for Fox HD? I can't seem to pick it up in Queens.

TIA & Regards....JL

I actually experienced dropouts on both my SA 3250HD and my SA8000HD DVR - I kept switching between the two and they were equally bad. Decided to just watch with audio through my TV. Sound still goes away but at least it doesn't "pop". Also it's been much better since early in the game.

The HD feed does look really good though.

I have found 705 to be one of the worst offenders for dropouts. Was watching the North Shore last week and it was also unwatchable - not sure if that was 720p or 480p.

Anyone else watch any of the US Open finals - you had to watch quickly as Federer whipped Hewitt - but when they were showing a shot facing the player and the stands on the near side of the court (in other words a reverse shot on the lower part of the court) the blue wall looked very pixellated. Wonder if they had one SD camera in there. Otherwise it looked great.

I too had many dropouts on 705, but when I switched to the tennis on 702 it also had more dropouts than normal. Between TWC's dropouts and the HD-DVR, it definately was annoying. Especially when hosting guests.

I am very optimistic about the new HD tier coming to NYC now that ESPN is on board. I think they will move quickly to get us inHD1&2, HD-Net, HD-Net Movies, and ESPN for an extra $10 a month. I know I will pay it the first day it becomes available.

Did I miss something? Has TWC reached an agreement with ESPN-HD?

Originally posted by LisaM
Did I miss something? Has TWC reached an agreement with ESPN-HD?

YES!!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444992

hopefully, NYC can free up some bandwidth.

Thanks...that is great news. Now, of course, TWCNYC has to find a way to put it on the air.

Exhanged my Pio HD box last Thurs. for the 8000HD. Haven't got the program guide to work, even after 1 hr on the phone with TWC support. So I will go back to 23rd st tomorrow for a new box. Anyone else experience this? I have noticed a drop in quality both video and audio versus the Pio box.

The only positive point regarding the SA 8000 HD DVR is the recording capabilities. With this not functioning properly, What the heck good is it??

I have experienced the extremely annoying problem of not getting an entire show recorded. This has happened several times over the last few days.

One show started exactly on the top of the hour. I selected the record button for the show. It stopped recording about 45 minutes into the show with the final 15 minutes not recorded. The show was rebroadcast again later on in the night, or early morning. I set it up again and the next day I watched it and it was exactly the same situation. The taping ended exactly at the same spot.

This also happened with a different half hour show, cutting off the last few minutes.

This is extremely irritating!

Anyone else having these problems? Do I have to manually record shows? I could understand if the show was a sporting event with unusual run times but these were regular time slot shows. No unusual start time or end time

Not to mention, all of the other crappy characteristics of this STB:

-poor audio (drop outs, no analog capabilities as a back up)
-terrible SD (vs. The Pioneer)
-non working S Video (for improved SD and enabling use of the TV's aspect ratio controls)
-less than stellar HD pictures compared to the Pioneer (much more artifacts with the SA)


Larry

new to this thread but it has been very helpful already. a couple quick questions for you guys:

- does anyone get audio "punch" or "freeze" sounds when they are changing channels within HD? i do not have a problem within SD channels, but I probably hear the sound (which is rather loud and sharp) 75% of the time when swtiching between HD channels, or switching between HD and SD.
- are only certain programs or channels in 16:9 format? i think discovery and showtime are consistently in widescreen, and ABC seems to consistently be in 4:3, while the others are program specific. do peoeple have the same experience as I?

thanks.

Originally posted by LL3HD
The only positive point regarding the SA 8000 HD DVR is the recording capabilities. With this not functioning properly, What the heck good is it??

I have experienced the extremely annoying problem of not getting an entire show recorded. This has happened several times over the last few days.

One show started exactly on the top of the hour. I selected the record button for the show. It stopped recording about 45 minutes into the show with the final 15 minutes not recorded. The show was rebroadcast again later on in the night, or early morning. I set it up again and the next day I watched it and it was exactly the same situation. The taping ended exactly at the same spot.

This also happened with a different half hour show, cutting off the last few minutes.

This is extremely irritating!

Anyone else having these problems? Do I have to manually record shows? I could understand if the show was a sporting event with unusual run times but these were regular time slot shows. No unusual start time or end time

Not to mention, all of the other crappy characteristics of this STB:

-poor audio (drop outs, no analog capabilities as a back up)
-terrible SD (vs. The Pioneer)
-non working S Video (for improved SD and enabling use of the TV's aspect ratio controls)
-less than stellar HD pictures compared to the Pioneer (much more artifacts with the SA)


Larry

Recording has worked perfectly for me. No problem with a recording stopping early. I did have that problem every now and again with Tivo.

I find the SD picture to be noticably better than what I'd been receiving on the Pioneer 3510HD box. I think that the HD picture may be a tad softer than I received on the Pioneer box, but I'm not 100% certain. In any event, the ability to record in HD far outweighs the possibility of a slightly softer picture.

The DVR is certainly MUCH more prone to drop outs than the Pioneer box. This is mostly a problem on CBSHD, but it pops up now and again on all of the HD stations. Hopefully a firmware update can fix the drop out problem.

I just switched out my Pioneer 3510HD for an SA 800HD after waiting over an hour at 23rd St. So far, so good.

Got it home, hooked it up - and no picture. The problem is that my plasma screen is actually getting fixed right now so the connection is by S-VHS through my hopefully soon to be redundant TiVo and to an old CRT. TiVo seems to think it is connected, and I can hear audio. I read elsewhere that the 8000HD doesn't auto switch from HD to SD? Obviously I am playing with it right now and will try cutting out TiVo etc. but could some kind person give me a button step-by-step into how to get it to display SD, wiothout the benefit of being able to see the screen? The weird thing is not even being able to see the guide, let alone the channels. But I guess I'm back in SA land and away from pioneer now so logic and good design are memories...!

Thanks.

Alex

from Jen's post,

...to switch the DVR into SD mode, as opposed to HD mode. This is accomplished by holding the Channel + button (on the box), then pressing the Volume - button (also on the box) and releasing both. After a moment, either HD or SD should appear on the box's display. You can repeat this action to switch from one mode to the other....

Originally posted by jlee121212
- are only certain programs or channels in 16:9 format? i think discovery and showtime are consistently in widescreen, and ABC seems to consistently be in 4:3, while the others are program specific. do peoeple have the same experience as I?

thanks.

The channels that feature HD content (701-713) always broadcast a picture that's 16:9 and 720p or 1080i even when airing a 4:3 program (when black or gray sidebars are added to the picture to fill out the space not occupied by the central image and the 480i format is upconverted to 720p or 1080i).

Originally posted by LL3HD
from Jen's post,

...to switch the DVR into SD mode, as opposed to HD mode. This is accomplished by holding the Channel + button (on the box), then pressing the Volume - button (also on the box) and releasing both. After a moment, either HD or SD should appear on the box's display. You can repeat this action to switch from one mode to the other....

THANK YOU!

I have the instruction manual which is going on about holding Guide and Info, which was achieving nothing. Appreciate it, thanks again.

Originally posted by alexjohnson
THANK YOU!

I have the instruction manual which is going on about holding Guide and Info, which was achieving nothing. Appreciate it, thanks again.

The instruction manual that TW gives you is based on Scientific Atlanta's SARA software. Our boxes have Pioneer Passport software which is completely different.

Originally posted by EricScott
The instruction manual that TW gives you is based on Scientific Atlanta's SARA software. Our boxes have Pioneer Passport software which is completely different.

Very useful! (That feature makes me think of the committee meeting where someone was chewing their pen and came up with this great idea.) So is there a downloadable guide to how the software works? I'm playing with the Series Manager right now - is that it?

Originally posted by alexjohnson
So is there a downloadable guide to how the software works? I'm playing with the Series Manager right now - is that it?

No and No.

thanks manatus,

but, i guess it would be too much to ask that all the programs shown on channe;s 701-713 would actually be filmed in 16:9. it is just frustrating watching a college football game on ABC HD on my new plasma in 4:3 with grey bars on the side.

I actually have one of their knucklehead technicians coming out to my house to try to resolve the 8000HD "issues".

I know they ain't going to do much... but I would at least want this problem documented in their system so when I want to bitch about other things... I have more firepower to give them.

Besides... maybe if they realize they are wasting enough technician manhours... they will actually DO something to fix this across the board.

With NBC-HD and Fox-HD launching or coming shortly to DirectTV, the available 250GB HD Tivo, I am starting to seriously think about going back to Satellite and giving DirectTV a shot unless TWC makes some changes soon.

Tonight's problem is pixilation streaks. Is anybody else having this problem? At least the audio seems better than yesterday. i have the 8000HD.

Originally posted by Manatus
No and No.

Would you be able to refer me to a FAQ? Thanks.

Originally posted by alexjohnson
Would you be able to refer me to a FAQ? Thanks.

As far as I know, neither SA nor TWC has created one for the Passport version of the 8000HD. This thread and the mega-8000HD thread (HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=352604)) are the best sources of information.

Has anyone gotten any indication from TW when we might actually see ESPN-HD?

On a whim, I tried calling this evening, knowing I was likely to get some bs answer about it coming "eventually." Instead, the phone drones are still telling people that the negotiations are ongoing, and that no agreement has yet been reached. They tell people that no Time Warner Cable system has ESPN-HD. When I inform them that an agreement has been reached and that several TWC systems had the channel within hours of the agreement being reached on Friday, they repeat the party line they gave before.

While I might be willing to forgive TWC-NYC for not having the channel ready to go the instant an agreement was reached, not getting current information to their CSRs is just making me want to do business with them even less.

That said, can someone explain the rationale for the city continuing to allow TWC to maintain a monopoly in their franchise area? It was one thing in 1965 when the franchises were first created to encourage cable wiring, but that time is long gone. The market is developed enough that TWC needs real competition...
-JMP

Latest problem / quirk with my 8000HD - if I have PIP on and swap between channels, it temporarily brings up live TV in the main window and then immediately goes back to the beginning of the buffer for that channel. If I swap back, it does the same thing to the original channel. So you have to hit Live each time to get back to real time.

I guess this is less annoying than things starting live when you wish they started at the beginning, but annoying nonetheless.

I wish there was an easy way to compile a list of all of the problems that people are having w/ these boxes.

Originally posted by jmp_nyc
Has anyone gotten any indication from TW when we might actually see ESPN-HD?

On a whim, I tried calling this evening, knowing I was likely to get some bs answer about it coming "eventually." Instead, the phone drones are still telling people that the negotiations are ongoing, and that no agreement has yet been reached. They tell people that no Time Warner Cable system has ESPN-HD. When I inform them that an agreement has been reached and that several TWC systems had the channel within hours of the agreement being reached on Friday, they repeat the party line they gave before.

While I might be willing to forgive TWC-NYC for not having the channel ready to go the instant an agreement was reached, not getting current information to their CSRs is just making me want to do business with them even less.

-JMP

It's not just the CSRs. Here's a copy of an email from Bob Watson himself that was posted in the TWCNYC Yahoo group earlier today:

From: Watson, Robert [mailto:bob.watson@t...]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:21 PM
To: David Schamis
Subject: RE: [ HDTV in the NYC Area ] Only TNT

In the past week we made changes in our analog signal distribution to
free up some bandwidth. We have just begun to reconfigure some of this
analog bandwidth for digital purposes. This will allow us to add new SD
and HD channels beginning in October and continuing later in the year.
Before YE INHD 1 & 2, including the NBA HD games, HD Net and Movies
should be on the system. At present, ESPN is still not willing to
finalize a contract for ESPN HD. We hope to have it with the INHD and HD
Net content, but can't say for sure until the agreement is done.

Sorry for the wait, but there wasn't an bandwidth to make HD additions,
that is changing. When the ESPN deal is done we will announce an EPSN HD availability date.

[Emphasis added]

Originally posted by Manatus
It's not just the CSRs. Here's a copy of an email from Bob Watson himself that was posted in the TWCNYC Yahoo group earlier today:

From: Watson, Robert [mailto:bob.watson@t...]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 1:21 PM
To: David Schamis
Subject: RE: [ HDTV in the NYC Area ] Only TNT

In the past week we made changes in our analog signal distribution to
free up some bandwidth. We have just begun to reconfigure some of this
analog bandwidth for digital purposes. This will allow us to add new SD
and HD channels beginning in October and continuing later in the year.
Before YE INHD 1 & 2, including the NBA HD games, HD Net and Movies
should be on the system. At present, ESPN is still not willing to
finalize a contract for ESPN HD. We hope to have it with the INHD and HD
Net content, but can't say for sure until the agreement is done.

Sorry for the wait, but there wasn't an bandwidth to make HD additions,
that is changing. When the ESPN deal is done we will announce an EPSN HD availability date.

[Emphasis added]

I'd give Bob the benefit of the doubt on this one. I think that the agreement wasn't reached until later on Friday afternoon, so at the moment he sent his email, I think he may have been correct. I have an email into him asking when we can expect to see ESPN-HD added. I encourage everyone to email him asking the same question until we have an answer.

Looks like they just pushed down a new version. All of my boxes are rebooting.

did anyone try to watch LAX in HD - there was background music but no sound. And Las Vegas wasn't watchable in HD the sound cuts were every other minute - i've never seen the HD this bad. someone should email this Bob guy about these problems.

Lets hope Bob has some good news soon, like, adding ESPN-HD instead of TNT-HD in October, then adding TNT-HD when the rest of the channels come online by the end of the year. OK, OK, don't all chuckle at once.

Originally posted by shk718
did anyone try to watch LAX in HD - there was background music but no sound. And Las Vegas wasn't watchable in HD the sound cuts were every other minute - i've never seen the HD this bad. someone should email this Bob guy about these problems.


Yes, I also had this problem, it was very weird, I actually thought it was part of the show. Finally after about 5 minutes of background music I switched over to the SD channel and realized that there was dialog going on.

Originally posted by rgrossman
Looks like they just pushed down a new version. All of my boxes are rebooting.

My 8000HD received the update around 2:30 this morning. The VERSIONS screen now shows Passport Echo 1.5.151 (formerly 1.5.062) and Power TV 6.4.10.1sp (formerly 6.4.9.1sp). There's also now a VERSION2 screen with lots of other software version information that I don't remember seeing before (which isn't to say that it wasn't there).

Oh goody. Supposedly 151 has the problem where it won't let you start watching a program that is currently recording from the beginning if it exceeds the buffer size (i.e. is longer than an hour). You have to start watching from where the buffer begins until the recording is over.

Curious if our boxes have this problem.

can someone tell me if its possible to manual recording on the 8000HD? i.e. always record ch 4 7 - 7:30 PM no matter what is showing?

My Pio 3510 also rebooted last night. Pissed me off because my tivo recorded 1 hr of blank Howard Sterns.
Anybody know what the new version of the software has?
Does the DVI now work on the 8000HD?

Well at least they are attempting to fix things. Anyone test S-Video to see if thats working on the 8000HD now?

Originally posted by timewaster
can someone tell me if its possible to manual recording on the 8000HD? i.e. always record ch 4 7 - 7:30 PM no matter what is showing?


Not sure if this will work, but you can try setting up a series recording for the show that is usually on from 7-7:30 (for example) and in the recording options, there is a choice for "All Showings" or "7:00 Only" (this obviously changes based on what the starting time for the currently selected recording is). If you select "7:00 Only" and a different show airs during that time, my guess is the box would still record it. Not sure if the Title takes priority over the fixed timeslot. Wouldn't be surprised if the fixed timeslot takes priority - probably simpler to implement.


My Pio 3510 also rebooted last night. Pissed me off because my tivo recorded 1 hr of blank Howard Sterns.


My Pioneer 3510 used to reboot every single night - part of the reason I swapped it for the 3250HD.


Anybody know what the new version of the software has?
Does the DVI now work on the 8000HD?

Pretty sure DVI won't work. Others in the 8000HD thread have reported having 151 and DVI wasn't activated. But who knows.

My Pio 3510 also rebooted last night. Something system-wide must be going on. After reading all of the posts about the issues with the HD DVR, I am really glad that I have held off swapping out the Pio box for it. I really want to be able to timeshift HD but the rest of my family would not be able to deal with the headaches.

Originally posted by EricScott
Oh goody.

A fitting beginning for this thread's 100th page.

Originally posted by Manatus
My 8000HD received the update around 2:30 this morning. The VERSIONS screen now shows Passport Echo 1.5.151 (formerly 1.5.062) and Power TV 6.4.10.1sp (formerly 6.4.9.1sp). There's also now a VERSION2 screen with lots of other software version information that I don't remember seeing before (which isn't to say that it wasn't there). Is the Title search function on the Series Manager active now?

Manatus,

Just reread your post and it appears you had a different version of the software than I did. You had 1.5.062, whereas I had 1.5.075. Hopefully I was upgraded today to 1.5.151. I guess this explains why different people have been experiencing different problems.

Originally posted by EricScott
Manatus,

Just reread your post and it appears you had a different version of the software than I did. You had 1.5.062, whereas I had 1.5.075. Hopefully I was upgraded today to 1.5.151. I guess this explains why different people have been experiencing different problems.

Is there a way I can tell if my SA 8000HD was updated or rebooted by TWC-NYC?

TIA....JL

Originally posted by SRFast
Is there a way I can tell if my SA 8000HD was updated or rebooted by TWC-NYC?

TIA....JL

You need to put the box in Diagnostics mode. To do that, press the box's + and Exit buttons simultaneously until "dIAG" appears on the box's screen; release the buttons and repeat the procedure. The Diagnostics menus will then appear on the TV. To leave Diagnostics, enter any channel's number on the remote.

Originally posted by EricScott
Not sure if this will work, but you can try setting up a series recording for the show that is usually on from 7-7:30 (for example) and in the recording options, there is a choice for "All Showings" or "7:00 Only" (this obviously changes based on what the starting time for the currently selected recording is). If you select "7:00 Only" and a different show airs during that time, my guess is the box would still record it. Not sure if the Title takes priority over the fixed timeslot. Wouldn't be surprised if the fixed timeslot takes priority - probably simpler to implement.





Can you specify both the day and time when you do this, or only the time?

timewaster,

Don't remember off hand. IIRC, your choices are:

1) "All Showings"
2) "Thursday 7:00PM" (Originally selected time; pretty sure this is day specific)

Check out p.6 of the attached file for a list of options:


Unfortunately I have no idea which options take priority over others.

Given that we just got a software update, this may all change anyway.

I have to choose between TW cable or Dishnet in my building. How would you compare the PQ of the 2 for

- HD channels
- SD channels

I will be viewing these on a 42 inch Fuji EDTV plasma. One thing in favor of TW is that I will be able to rent a DVR from them versus I will have to buy a Tivo for the Dishnet receiver (due to limitations in my apt building Dishnet setup. I cant have any Dishnet DVRs until they upgrade the wiring which could be months or a year)


Thanks for any help.

Same questions as above but compare to VOOM service.

So I got the Passport v.151 download. As far as I can tell, the only difference (and don't laugh) is that the IPG has a little "TV Guide" logo in the bottom left. I remember when Tivo rolled out a software update that did the exact same thing.

Still do not have "Search" functionality in the IPG, just the crappy old "Title" search if you hit "C".

My PIP swapping issue appears to have fixed itself - stays at live TV rather than going to the beginning of the buffer.

Haven't recorded anything that exceeds the buffer size to see if you can watch it from the beginning while recording.

Anyone know how to get rid of those annoying gray bars on SD broadcasts on the SA800-HD box?

L

Originally posted by LawrenceB
Anyone know how to get rid of those annoying gray bars on SD broadcasts on the SA800-HD box?

L

The workaround that I use is to set the 8000HD's Aspect Ratio option to "16:9" and "Stetch 4:3", which stretches 4:3 content, and then set your TV to 4:3 mode while watching SD channels. Most TVs will insert black bars. So effectively you are stretching and then shrinking the picture. Haven't noticed any PQ degredation. The only annoyance is that all of the menus and the IPG look squeezed. Also on my TV I need to switch from 4:3 to Wide when going to a widescreen channel.

Obviously this all depends on your TV's picture mode capabilities.

I have a Samsung HLP5063.

That works but what a pain. I channel surf and going though all those menus (TV and SA8000) isn't worth it.

Originally posted by LawrenceB
That works but what a pain. I channel surf and going though all those menus (TV and SA8000) isn't worth it.

You only need to change the settig on the box once. Then on your TV you just need to change picture mode when going for SD to HD. Since the HD channels tend to be grouped together, this should be conducive to channel surfing.

On my TV, if you pass anything other than 480i over component, the only picture size options are 4:3 and Wide, so the Picture Size button on my remote just toggles between the two.

Not a perfect solution but way better than dealing w/ the gray bars. I was going to return the box b/c of the gray bars but someone pointed out this tip and I am quite pleased with it.

Wow, I had no idea the SA 8000HD was available from TWC now--when I got my HDTV a month ago, it didn't seem to be, and I was under the impression it wouldn't be out for a few more months until I impulsively decided to swing by this forum this AM and see if there was any news. Holy cow! I hardly watch any HDTV on my set because I'm so addicted to timeshifting, but now I'll finally be able to get the most out of my set! I just made an appointment for them to bring by the 8000HD on Saturday (I can't do a self-install since I don't have an HD box already), which is the same day my set is getting an ISF calibration. Woo hoo!

This is a quote from an article on cnet news - this is why we're not getting much HD content - there aren't very many of us:

"As of June 30, Time Warner Cable had 10.9 million cable subscribers, of whom 4.6 million were receiving digital service. By contrast, just 328,000 subscribed to HD programming. The company offers customers new set-tops at no additional charge upon request, but it is not aggressively marketing the service."



http://news.com.com/Tuning+up+for+HDTV/2100-1041_3-5366749.html?tag=nefd.lede

Raspberries! Doesn't bode well for adding lots more channels in the near future (vs say more VOD or "other" stuff...).

OTOH, if they just added a little more and *charged* for it, it might *begin* to get some real attention from TWC...

TM

Interesting data in the article.

300 thousand of us? That’s actually great news. It seems like just yesterday when we were an exclusive few. More important to reiterate, we are growing exponentially.

If TWC would get their act together- forge ahead, full throttle into HD, take a risk and dump all analog service, free up bandwidth, they would certainly be rewarded with massive profits.



Larry