My earliest experiments with gray screens left something to desire. Although blacks and shadow detail were enhanced, whites were crushed and colors were sometimes overly muted. The trade off had me rushing back to flat matte white.
Enter "Mist gray". Here is a color that seems to bring forth the best of white and gray. Blacks are enhanced, there's more shadow detail, colors remain vivid or sometimes just slightly muted, and whites don't have that dull dingy appearance. This may be a near perfect balance for my Z1. But, I have yet to tell you the best part. The 'screen door effect' typical of LCD projectors is hugely deminished. Or, put another way, I had no problem increasing from an 80" image to a 100" image. This particular color did a great job masking the SDE.
I'm still experimenting, so more details later.

UPDATE:
Two years and eight months later, S-I-L-V-E-R replaces good ol' Misty Evening. Still a wonderful one-can, one shot solution, however.

Go Here for shortcut:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7612239&&#post7612239

I think we need more information that just the words "Mist gray" even if you are going to provide more details later, such as "who makes 'Mist gray' and where did you get it?"

CMRA, I agree with Gray Davis......MORE INFO PLEASE!!! You certainly got my attention. Now I simply MUST have more details on this discovery!!
Waiting.......waiting........waiting!!!

...here are some details. Mind you, I'm still testing. Anyway, here are the particulars:
Glidden Evermore Paint
"Misty Evening"
It's a flat latex for exterior Masonry and Stucco
It is widely available at Home Depot and most likely any retailer who deals with Glidden.

After more testing I'll post my findings.

Here's an idea...

Since your only dealing with paint, would it be possible to paint half the screen the standard matte white and the other half mist grey, then have screenshots taken to compare the two?..

Good job CMRA.. you results interest me since I am a Z1 owner without a screen...

Interesting, I am considering ditching my old direct view elephant and using my HT1000 as a replacement, and getting a 16x9 PJ for the larger screen. Projecting say a 60" diagonal superbright image on a dark silver paint (we do not have a dark silver hipower yet) to use during daylight hours. My only query, I have heard people state that silver and not grey was the way to go (I'll probably just run my own test).

What do you think, CMRA? Good luck with your test.

I too have read the results on silver. I have only experimented with silver fabric an the results were 'unwatchable'. My silver experiment did nothing to enhance black level detail, produced sparklies, enhanced the screen door effect, and magnified DVD artifacts. I obviously tested the 'wrong' silver.
Flat white matte is the easiest to work with and color correct for. However, it's this new gray finish I'm most excited about. I do have to adjust for the loss of color saturation and whites are slightly compressed. This new gray has four significant advantages: Reduces visable artifacts, deminishes the screen door effect, enhances the blacks and controls the amount of light reflected into my room and back on to the screen.
In the white vs gray vs silver war, so far it's the gray that delivers the most satisfying viewing experience for me. Other projectors in other environments may produce completely different results.
When viewing 2.35 to 1 dvds the 100" vs 80" screen at 12 feet does indeed have impact.

Those following this thread may be please to know my testing continues. Tonight I viewed 'Gladiator' for the umpteenth time. Never has it looked so good. At only 12 feet away on my 100 inch screen I had to work at detecting the screen door effect. On my white screen 16 feet would be the minimum viewing distance. More later.

CMRA,

Have you tried any filters on your Z1? and if so, how did it/they compare to the grey screen? I am using a Neutral Density and an FL-D filter, but wonder if a grey screen would be better for me than the ND filter, especially for screendoor. I'm limited to an 82" screen from 13 feet back only because of screendoor.

Thanks,
Bricktop

Filters? No. I read where others have used CC filters, but with the Z1's ample adjustments I see no need. I can only speak for this discovery, and as far as screen door effect goes, misty evening gray is very much in the right direction. Could there be better? Perhaps. The cost of gray sceeens being what they are, this is bargain city. One thing is certain, I am enjoying a wonderful 100" picture at 12'.

Originally posted by dr_mark2001
Interesting, I am considering ditching my old direct view elephant and using my HT1000 as a replacement, and getting a 16x9 PJ for the larger screen. Projecting say a 60" diagonal superbright image on a dark silver paint (we do not have a dark silver hipower yet) to use during daylight hours. My only query, I have heard people state that silver and not grey was the way to go (I'll probably just run my own test).

What do you think, CMRA? Good luck with your test.

CMRA thinks with the right projector and setup, silver may be the best way to go. I have only tried one silver solution and immediately dismissed it as doable. Then again, I have an LCD projector. I have read many positive reviews and comments and even seen some screen shots of Vutec's offering. I'm sure I'd like it too and could adjust my projector to make it look great. However, I read it also costs upwards of $58.00 a square foot! Right now, I'm getting an image that bests any cinema I've been to in recent memory. In the not to distant future when my 'busy' friend finds the time to truck it over I'll have another 'silver' screen to try. I'll post my experience.

In the next two days I will go head to head with another silver solution. Hopefully it will better my last silver attempt. As usual, I'll post my findings.

Given the CEDIA results, I may just get a HS-20 or LT240K and blast away on a 50-60" diagonal grey screen for a direct view replacement. Is this Misty Evening a dark or light grey, what does it look like in the daytime?

Thanks and good luck.

Misty evening is a lighter shade of grey. Sample color swatches are available at home depot and other distributors of Glidden paints. I have tried darker greys and they crush the whites too much. ( I suppose with a high lumen light canon like the Nec 240 that won't be an issue). By the way, it is very inexpensive and retouches well. My touch-up goes unnoticed. It looks light grey in daylight.

Looks as though silver is coming in spades. I'll have three new silver solutions to test before the evening is through. Keep posted.

Well, two of the four silver fabrics went under the scope today. Of the two, the lighter one produced the more flattering picture. In fact, it had as much snap as the misty evening paint. Blacks were acceptable. The darker silver, disappointed greatly..a real tosser because it really crushed the whites. However, both bested my first silver attemp. The lighter silver fabric actually competed favorably with the misty evening except for one area. It dramatically enhanced the screen door pattern. I would imagine members with very high resolution projectors such as those who own DILAs would find immediate favor with the material. For now, for me and LCD, misty evening grey is the best answer. Two more silvers coming.

CMRA,

What material is the screen made of?

Here's an enhancement that totally took me by surprise. On some dvds, in some scenes, there is a visably enhanced 3d effect. In particular, I played 'Chicken Run'. Another was 'Nighmare Before Christmas'. This may be unique to 'claymation' type dvds and it was only apparent in some scenes. A nice bonus nonetheless. Has me thinking. I read something similar about screen goo coupled with a modified X1 awhile back.

I'm painting my screen tomorow and I'm having a guy who paints cars do it with latex paint, but he needs to know what color code to go with. Need expert help asap. I live in europe but other color code will probably be fine

Thanks in advance

I also went to Home Depot looking for grey paint to use for a screen with my Epson S1 LCD projector. I settled on a CIL flat paint - Touch of Grey. I remember seeing the Misty one, but can't remember how it compared to Touch of Grey.

I am very happy with the results. I projected half of my image on the newly painted grey screen, and half on my Pure White Satin wall to do a comparison. The whites are muted slightly, the colours are richer, screendoor is visibly reduced, and the blacks are beautiful and deep (relatively speaking). For a very dark room like my HT, the small sacrifice in whites is worth it.

I do not have a source code and the home depot code would be useless ( I would think) in Europe. Have your paint retailer cross reference "Glidden Misty Evening". They should be able to formulate a close match.

Fellow members,
Looks as though there will be a delay on the two remaining silver fabric screens for testing. I'll keep all informed.

Can I paint a Parkland Plastics screen with this Misty gray paint, CMRA?

The real question should be: will paint bond to the surface of Parkland Plastics? I don't have a definitive answer for you. Latex paints will cover some plastics but will peel very easily. If I were to try that route I'd pretreat the surface first with a good white primer such as Kilz after scuff sanding the surface. A better approach would be to acquire a sheet of Luan or hardboard (basically pegboard without the holes), prime that then paint it. Both can be purchased at your local hardware store for under $10.00 (usually).

Thanks a lot, CMRA! I think I might try your mist gray idea.

The next silver fabric is here. Actually, it's sitting in my truck awaiting an elevator ride to my testing room. Stay tuned.

What's with the silver fabric? Are you backing away from misty gray? I thought that was the best so far.

Hi everyone,

I too just picked up some Misty Evening paint from HD after reading this post. It is a very light shade of gray.

I am going to use this on my screen that i will start to build tommorow using blackout cloth.

I do have one question though, should i primer the cloth with white primer first or can i just go ahead and paint it? I will be using a foam roller to apply the paint. Is this a good roller to use?

Thanks

Perhaps you can put aside a piece of the blackout cloth unpainted, and then take some screenshots with it over the Grey screen for a comparison?

Hmmmm...
Painting on BO cloth? If painting works then priming and painting will work that much better. Primer sets up paint to give it a smooth, even finish. I have found Kilz 2 an excellent primer when painting with latex. It's cheap enough to try both ways and determine which results you prefer.

Originally posted by Gray Davis
What's with the silver fabric? Are you backing away from misty gray? I thought that was the best so far.

Gray,

No. Currently Misty Evening is my standard by choice. However, it is not beyond me to experiment further. That's how I discovered Misty Evening.

change in plans,

I went back to HD to get screen materials and ended up buying a sheet of the Do-Able material that was mentioned in another post here. I am going to paint this with Misty Evening and see how it turns out.

splatee:

Talk about a night-ow! Looks like you have been up all night.

I painted my BO cloth screen with Lowe's Valspar Gray Plank flat interior. Sort of a medium/light gray recommended by Ron P who frequenlty posts here and over on Home Theater Forum. We both have the PT-L200 PJ. I rolled it on with a cotton 3/16" roller on the shiny side without primer. Rolling over the framed part of the screen, the paint went on very well, covering easily. The unsupported parts were un-satisfying to paint - the cloth just pushes away from you. Not a big deal as it is not that big an area. One quart was just enough to put on two coats on ab 54x94" screen.

The Gray Plank seemed darker than I was expecting. Almost thought the girl got the mix wrong. Wonder how the Misty Evening would compare?

Ran Avia last night. Interestingly the PJ was pretty close out of the box. Reduced both contrast and brightness just a little. Increased tint towards green just a touch. Felt kind of silly staring at the screen with the included little pieces of green, blue, and red filter over my eyes. Worked well, though.

(christer W.) (Ran Avia last night. Interestingly the PJ was pretty close out of the box. Reduced both contrast and brightness just a little. Increased tint towards green just a touch. Felt kind of silly staring at the screen with the included little pieces of green, blue, and red filter over my eyes. Worked well, though)

I too also have a L200u and ran the Avia dvd last night and it was also pretty close.

I just got done painting my screen and it is drying now. I did see a few roller marks but they may dissappear when dry. If it dosen't work out i will just cover the Do-able board with blackout cloth.

Originally posted by splatee
I too also have a L200u and ran the Avia dvd last night and it was also pretty close.

I just got done painting my screen and it is drying now. I did see a few roller marks but they may dissappear when dry. If it dosen't work out i will just cover the Do-able board with blackout cloth.

CMRA asks: Did you prime your Do-able prior to painting? Also, did you use the flip side and preserve your finished side?

(CMRA) (CMRA asks: Did you prime your Do-able prior to painting? Also, did you use the flip side and preserve your finished side?)

I did not prime, i painted the finished side and have to say i am very pleased with the results :) . Half way through i realized maybe i should have painted the other side, but it was to late LOL. I did see some roller marks after painting but after the paint dried they were gone, it turned out great. All i have to do now is mask it with sometype of black felt or something.

I ran Avia again to adjust for any changes due to the gray screen. My black levels went up without affecting the whites and my colors are still vibrant.

I played scenes from the LORTT, and Phantom Menace to check for detail in the dark scenes and was very happy with the results. Also played Monsters Inc and the colors were great.

assuming your 'misty' turned out like mine, have you noticed a more "3D" looking 'Monsters Inc'? Also, have you noticed any difference with the screen door effect? Mine (on my Z1) was reduced enough I was able to go from an 80" screen to a 100" screen.

I only ran Monsters Inc for a few minutes but i did notice that the colors were richer looking. Actually on all the movies that i tested they all seemed to have richer colors & more detail.

I especially liked the scene from the Phantom Menace where Obi-Wan was chasing Jango Fett through the asteroid field, it showed very good detail.

As far as Screen Door Effect, i have not seen any. I sit far enough away not to see it. But if i get close enough i see it.

I am going to take some screen shots when i get a chance.

So, how did the next silver fabric fare? About the same as the last. It would appear silver fabric is the enemy of LCD technology. While the grey masks 'screen door effect' the silver accentuates it. So much so, that when watching via HTPC, not only were the gridlines noticibly visible there was an apparent graininess in a side by side comparison. Silver faired much better using the stand alone dvd prog scan dvd player. Gray, to answer your question, for my set up, the 'misty' is demonstatively better. Silver may be the 'choice' of DLP and CRT fans but not this LCD owner. I don't hold any great expectations for the last silver test.

Speaking of Monsters, today I replayed it and 'Antz' on my 'Misty Evening' screen. Never, and I mean Never have they looked this good before. I know I would offend the Firehawk fans if I told them a DIY screen could look as good or better than theirs. So I won't. Only those following this thread need to know.

I treated a beige wall with Kill2 primer and then painted with Misty Evening (I trimmed with molding painted flat black). The screen size is aprroximately 92" diagonal. I am projecting with a SE 20HD. My previous screen was a 119" Grayhawk. In all respects, I am happier with my painted screen than the GrayHawk. It may be the reduced screen size, but everyone has commented on the improvement. No screen door, and colors are perfect. A friend who is in the process of building a theater commented on how he will not buy a screen now, but will paint as well! I could not be more pleased with this DIY screen. Thanks for the advice with the color!

Your observations confirm mine. Who would have thought paint could compete with state of the art screen technology? Have you noticed, as I have, the '3D' like image you get with some DVDs when you project onto 'Misty'? Animated titles really benefit from this paint.

CMRA:
Both the Misty Gray and Kill2 Primer can be found at Home Depot? I think I may have to try wah twrighthenry did once I buy my projector....

I'm glad that everyone else who is trying this paint is having good results like i have and the others also.

I am now going to go and mask off the top and bottom of my screen and hang some black fabric on the wall to finish off the screen. This should also help in picture quality by cutting back on the amount of reflection bouncing off the wall.

I've skimmed through this thread and was wondering if anyone has done a direct comparison between the Misty and the Valspar?

I'm very happy with the Valspar compared to my Da Lite matte white, silver and unpainted Blackout cloth screen's.


Peace Out~:D

Home Depot is where I got everything to fabricate this screen. Remember now, this solution works for LCD pjs. I have yet to see how CRT and DLP pjs look on it. Perhaps we'll hear about those results too in time.

Misty Evening grey is more akin to High Contrast Cinema Vision than anything else I can think of. It is a lighter shade of grey. Reading through this thread you'll find my experiences with matte white, silver, and darker greys. How does it compete with Valspar? Wish I had an answer for you. Perhaps in time someone will compare the two side by side.

I haven't gotten to watch many DVD's since I painted the screen. During the Patriots-Eagles game, however, a friend remarked how 3d the announcers looked. I honestly couldn't be happier. For the price, this screen can't be beat.

I hope you have Ice Age and Chicken Run in your DVD collection. In some of the scenes the animation seems to pop right off the screen. In reality, it's lighting and depth of field control.

I really want to try this.
I have the Z1 projecting onto a 100" screen made from blackout cloth.

Can I just roll this on? I'm really worried about roll lines.

CMRA,

Thanks, I'll pick up a quart and give it a test myself within the next couple of weeks. Is there any special mix design, or is it a standard off the shelf color?


Peace Out~:D

Does there seem to be a consensus on the surface to paint Misty Evening? I had looked for the DOable board- is it not available on the East coast as is the rumor. I just got an Epson TW100 and had planned on an HCCV screen, but this sure has my interest. What is the thought on painted blackout fabric? Sounds like a major breakthrough here based on the results. Was ready to plunk down many dinero for a Cinema Contour HCCV screen. Problem with the doable is you can only have a 48" tall screen, correct?

Jeff

The paint flows very evenly, however I highly recommend two coats of a high quality latex primer on your substrate prior to painting such as Kilz 2. Then two coats of Misty Evening. Make sure you allow each coat to dry before addding the next coat. Rolling with a short knap roller works best.
At your local Glidden retailer or Home Depot they will have to mix it for you.

Since Misty Evening is paint you won't be limited to 4'x8' Do-able panels. I have read on this forum about 5'x10' panels. In fact, some adventurous member said he painted his wall with excellent results. Best wishes.

I did two coats when I painted on my Valspar gray, I did not prime before hand. I also used a short nap roller. The two coats worked perfectly and I cannot see any roller marks.

I plan on picking up a single yard of blackout fabric, painting it and then hanging it over half my Valspar screen. This will give me a side-by-side to compare the two colors. I did this same thing with a silver paint I compared to the Valspar.


Peace Out~:D

I too was going to hang a piece of blackout cloth that i have over half the screen to compare, but my dvd player just died :( .

I was able to take some screen shots though.

Ghost in the Shell. I think this is just from projecting on the wall.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/8592573c/bc/pics/__hr_ghost_in_the_shell01.jpg?bcSh4Z_APmgTkUx5

Monsters Inc. These are on the Misty.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/8592573c/bc/pics/__hr_mnstr_inc_02.jpg?bcSh4Z_A65ZGpHuR

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/8592573c/bc/pics/__hr_mnstr_inc1.jpg?bcSh4Z_AeEais7YY

The shots may be a little out of focus from freezing the frame.

Also i still have a little more tweaking to do with the color settings, i am having a hard time deciding between cinema1 & cinema2 mode.

Hee Hee. You guys are doing what I did over 2 1/2 years ago. I painted over blackout material with a gray that matched the grayhawk and it worked fine. Don't you just love making your own screen and having guests who can't tell a difference from the screen that costs a grand?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=133271#post133271

Originally posted by splatee
I was able to take some screen shots though. Not sure why but I can't get to the screenshots through those links.

CMRA,

Where did you get silver material? I have a dlp and looking to get some gain from it. Did any of your experiments yield much of a gain, compare to plain white??

Thanks,

Scott

scottyb,
I acquired the silver fabric samples free of charge, hence, I know not their origin, that is, the manufacturer. However, talking to the person who donated the material, I have been informed it is the same silver material used in the manufacture of spring action collapsible auto sunshades. A quick and easy test for you might as close as your local auto parts store. In fact, you may have something similar in your vehicle right now. Worth a try. I'd be interested in your results.

has anyone had experience with the Misty Grey with the sharp dt-200 dlp projector..

also, when picking out a color to paint a wall, what are some key things to look for?
thanks

Joe,
From what CMRA says ...give the Grey a try and if you don't like it return it. Home depot is great at returns....From reading many posts...the grayish colors seems to bring out the blacks better....and give a sharper image overall. This may not be true for all projectors though.
I had a demo of a Sharp Z90U(same as the DT200 except for throw distance) and I had the picture just thrown on the white wall in our basement and I thought it looked great just on the wall. I am sure with tweakinng and other colors it may even look better. Your best bet is to find maybe 3 different colors and paint your wall 3 stripes 30" wide and do a comparison. That is what I will do once I decide on a projector which looks like it will be the Sanyo Z1.

Went to home depot today and got a quart of misty evening. Is it my imagination or does the paint chart have a bluish tint to it? I didn't notice it after I had painted my strip, but the chart sure has a blue tint to it compared to some of the other samples.

Yeah I noticed that on the sample strip as well... I even held that tiny thing up to my wall and thought it gave the colors a bit of a bluish cast... so you're saying the real paint doesn't have this tint? I haven't bought any of the paint yet.

I am not going to paint a wall as the finished basement is wall papered. Does it seem a better solution to paint blackout material, or the Do-able board? I have not seen either of these materials and understand the doable is only on the west coast. Anyone know the answer to that??

Jeff

Does anyone know the UPC code for this product at Home Depot? My HD has never heard of it; the on line store has no idea. Is there any other source for this product? Thanks

Jeff

Thanks for teh advice cburbs. if you don't mind me asking, when you demoed the Z90U what did you think of the picture quality and how big of an image did you throw. I am seriously considering buying one of these puppies, but I am hesitant about the 800 x 600. Just to give you an idea of what i will be setting up I have an 13*15 living room... will be throwing it roughly 14feet to a wall and i have found that the image is supposed to be about 100" diagonal. the room has little to no ambient light. I will be playing video games (x box), dvd's, and watching movies. in your opinion, how did you feel about the picture clarity and look
thanks

After watching a few things on my sample I can tell it has a blue tint to it. Very slight, but it's there none the less. It improves blacks and does enhance some colors, but I don't like what it does to the skin tones. I did like the screen better than the nd filter I was using. I did all of my observations with the nd filter off.
I picked up more samples and noticed one called "tears of joy" it looks more like a neutral gray, I may give that a try.

Yes indeed, misty evening DOES have a slight blue tint to it. That very well may be why it stands out from the other greys. It may also be why it masks SDE so well. And, like other greys, it does a good job of enhancing blacks and shadow details.
Will it work as well on your setup as it does on mine? My pj is a Sanyo Z1 LCD. I pesonally have tried other greys, and silver fabrics for that matter. Every grey other than the 'Misty' crushed the whites. The darker the grey the more dingy the whites looked.
With my setup I can get flesh tones spot on, but I have to work at it. The Z1 is not plug and play perfect. It can however be outright stunning if you are willing to put some effort into it.
To sum up 'Misty Evening' ( assuming you project via a Z1 or perhaps a similar LCD pj): If you like enhanced blacks and more shawdow detail, if you like reduced 'screen door effect', if you like better reflection control than white matte offers, and if you like a more 3D looking image this too is a solution for you. I have yet to find its equal.

CMRA, just out of curiosity, what effort did you put into your Z1 to make flesh tones spot on?

I tried a Kodak Gray card (15 percent gray) and it did improve blacks, but it also darkened everything else as well. Isn't that the trade off with gray? Blacks improve but everything else suffers...

The secret is out Sorry :)

I project with a Panasonic l300u.

Since raising the color temperature gives a blue cast to everything and makes the white's whiter. Maybe the blue tint in the paint is what's keeping the white's white?

Just a thought.

I haven't tried any other gray paints yet, so I don't have anything to compare it to other than the plain blackout cloth. I'd really like to try and do the ddog mixture, but I have my doubts on whether I could pull that off.

CMRA, I hope you didn't take offense to my post. I was just surprised when I realized it had a blue tint. I had always assumed it was just a light neutral gray.

I too noticed the blue tint on the color chart at HD when i was buying it. I thought it couldn't be right. After painting my Do-able board it was initially a little dark and had a slight blue tint. Now that it has been 6 days since i painted it it has lightened up and now looks to be just a few shades darker than white. It is a real lite shade of gray.

I have not had the chance to watch anything on it yet to see how it looks since my dvd player died, i am in the process of trying to decide on a new one hehe.

Getting the flesh tones right. First thing to do is toss that 18% grey card from Kodak. I have one and it's way too small and way too to dark. You'll crush ALL your whites. Can you imagine going to a cinema and viewing a movie on something that dark?
Trust your eyes. Calibration and diagnostic discs can be helpful and often get you close but are no match to a trained eye. They certainly are not capable of dealing with every projector-screen-room combo out there.
Play each DVD, go to several bright daylight scenes on each one. Start with contrast and gamma adjustments. After you have adjusted for brilliance and got the 'snap', adjust for color saturation. Fine tune with tint, and red-green-blue adjustments. Finally, write down your adjustments on a 3x5 card and store it with the DVD. (You'll notice every DVD will have its own best settings). When you wish to view the DVD again adjust your Z1 accordingly and enjoy.

I wonder how well this Glidden 'misty evening' would work with my Infocus X1?

Thanks for the detailed response, CMRA!

Originally posted by James W. Johnson
I wonder how well this Glidden 'misty evening' would work with my Infocus X1?

I'd love to know also. It's a dirt cheap solution. How about giving it a try and report your results to all the forum members? You'd be the first and your contribution would be greatly appreciated.

Am also curious how this will work with my TW100 Epson. Unfortunately cannot seem to find the DOable board which sounds like a great surface to paint. Would love to try it versus the money for an HCCV.

Jeff

Your Epson should be a solid match as it also is LCD. Any hardboard, luan, or wall will do if properly primed before hand.

CMRA & others,

This thread has convinced me to try the "misty evening" paint, even though I was skeptical about it due to the blue tint. In any case it's only paint, and if I don't like it, I'll paint over it.

I'm now at a point where I can start getting everything set up in the theater room. I will be using a sheet of drywall as the screen, just attaching it to the existing wall. Right now, I'm planning on priming & painting the entire 4x8 sheet of drywall, then cutting it to size while leaving room for a border.

Ken

Originally posted by CMRA
I'd love to know also. It's a dirt cheap solution. How about giving it a try and report your results to all the forum members? You'd be the first and your contribution would be greatly appreciated.


You got it, I will buy some today and paint it on my 72" DIY screen that is currently an eggshell white.

I'll post my results this weekend or so as well as provide some pics.

What is the smallest container of this paint that I can purchase? Home Depot carries it correct?

Originally posted by James W. Johnson
You got it, I will buy some today and paint it on my 72" DIY screen that is currently an eggshell white.

I'll post my results this weekend or so as well as provide some pics.

What is the smallest container of this paint that I can purchase? Home Depot carries it correct?

A quart, I believe. Make sure you prime your surface first to insure a smooth even finish. HDepot...of course. Best wishes.

A quart is what i used and it was just enough, i did 3 coats on a 6' x 4' Do-able board. I painted the finished side but did'nt prime it. I am very happy with the results.

Can someone post the paint code off the top of the can? My HD could not help with just the name of the paint.


Peace Out~:D

This may not be an accurate comparison since I was using settings for a matte white screen and did not make adjustments for the misty grey screen.. Contrast and Brightness was set a little higher than normal(35) so that the grey side would not appear too dark..Overall the difference didn't seem too dramatic..The grey had increased dark levels and "muted" bright white scenes, The matte white side had added more detail and color..

Sanyo PLV-Z1
HTPC 1:1 Pixelmapping
Contrast/Brightness 35
Red/Blue/Green 32
Sharpness 8
Gamma 8


http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/Screen1.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/Shot1.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/Shot2.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/Shot3.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/Shot4.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/Shot5.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/Shot6.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/Shot7.jpg

Ouch glad I saw this before I went to Home depot tonight, I was going to pick up a can of the Misty evening. It seems to darken the light sceens too much for my liking

Excellent. Now all you have to do is adjust your settings to compensate going from white to grey. Ideally, post your favorite DVDs and I'll give you my settings (assuming I have the same ones in my library).
My adjustment method is prior posted on this same thread in a post to Gray Davis. Also, were you able to compare the SDE?

Screen Door was definately minimized, however screendoor wasn't never too much of a problem on the matte white IMHO.. I will calibrate the grey side to AVIA and take some more shots.. My dvd collection can be found here (http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=pdquickk)

I'm on it. And thanks for all your effort. BTW, you mentioned you were viewing via HTPC with 1:1 pixel mapping. Would you mind sharing your setup/equipment information with fellow forum readers?

My HTPC consists of pretty much the basics AMD XP 1800,Radeon 9000 Pro,MyHD MDP-100,FlyVideo 2000,XCapture,PowerDVD 2.55, Logitch Z-360 5.1 Surround Sound,prolly some other stuff I forgot about in there..

But anyway, it seemed to me the biggest difference between the matte white and misty grey was brightness levels between the two..the color levels were pretty darn close to each other, so I decided to do some multiple shots of the same scene while varying the brightness levels on the Z1..heres what I came up with...

http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/22.JPG
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/23.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/24.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/25.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/28.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/29.jpg

Great effort, taking the pics and going through the hassle of uploading and posting them is not simple nor all that quick. The best way to compare! Thank you for ALL your efforts on behalf of all the forum members!

Chris

Can't tell you which side is better. They are just different.
Which means I guess I won't try it.

You can't tell black levels looking at screen shots on an lcd computer monitor.

My only concern would be black levels and screen door.

Originally posted by BreakStuff
Screen Door was definately minimized, however screendoor wasn't never too much of a problem on the matte white IMHO.. I will calibrate the grey side to AVIA and take some more shots.. My dvd collection can be found here (http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=pdquickk)


Can you try some Gladiator screenshots when you calibrate to the grey side?
thanks

Breakstuff,

Very nice. How did you achieve 1:1 pixel mapping? PowerStrip? An updated driver for your ATI 9000?
Now for the goods. Currently I have My Panny S55 playing DVDs on my Z1. It's prog scan component.
For Gladiator try these settings on your Z1. ( Service menu setttings set at default, by the way)

Cont=49
Bright=28
Color=40
Tint=32
Red=31
Green=28
Blue=36
Sharp=8
Gamma=14
off
on

Z1 set at 480p
Panny in cinema 2 mode

They also work favorably for Men in Black II.

Please remember my DVD source is a stand alone DVD player. Will these settings work favorably with HTPC via RGB? Give 'em a try.
My experience favors stand alone players for film based transfers and HTPC for video transfers like Monsters Inc. and Toy Story.

Also, your screen shots look especially fine. My efforts tend to produce stills that are too contrasty and unsuitable for comparitive purposes. Would you elaborate on your camera and settings so that others may also post their results. TIA

I don't know whether it is my monitor or something else, but for me Ultra-white screen looks as a clear winner in all but one screenshot (the one with screendoor). :confused:

Originally posted by Stasulos
I don't know whether it is my monitor or something else, but for me Ultra-white screen looks as a clear winner in all but one screenshot (the one with screendoor). :confused:

What did you expect? He has his projector set up for that. When he adjusts for the grey the white screen will look the lessor. Any surface change demands adjusting for it. The Z1, in particular, produces a rather marginal image out of the box but downright gorgeous when optimized. You wouldn't believe to image it produced last night with HBO-HDTV. Utterly smoked ANY plasma or RPTV I've seen.

Well I painted my 6' wide screen with the Misty Evening yesterday and my initial run in was good but after coming back here and seeing the above comparo I quickly questioned myself.
Honestly my opinion is of little use to you guys because I have not had my projector long enough to be experimenting with screens yet but I'll give it to you anyways.

I have had my DIY screen for several years and it has was coated with several coats of primer and them several coats of Behr Ultra white in Eggshell just like the guy above has.
The screen has been out of commision for around a year because my last XGA LCD unit failed and I could not afford another at the time, it needed some touch up anyways so it was an easy decision to paint it with the experimental color.

I put around 6-8 hours on the X1 and the Behr Ultra white eggshell and I have around 3-4 hours on the Misty Evening. I painted the Misty Evening directly over the eggshell white because the white serves as a fine primer.

The first DVD I popped in after the paint dried was Gladiator since this film has a plethora of dark yet beautiful scenes...it seemed richer and more detailed and this was with using the projectors "Theater" preset.

This happened before I saw the above comparo...after going back and watching some other various material including some Direct TV I then felt
like I wanted the Ultra White punch back BUT I kept on watching and made a few minor adjustments and kept a careful eye on the colors and whites and they seemed extrememly natural and quite punchy.
The only way I can be sure is to paint half of my screen in the Ultra Pure white again.

Looking at that first pic with just the screen colors, that Misty Evening is quite dark, darker than the Valspar gray I used. Re-calibration is a must. From the Misty screen shots, things look a little too blue. My 200u does not offer me the option to adjust individual RGB color controls using the component inputs so I'd be unable to back off on the blue color.

I'd love to see some re-calibrated shots. So far, I still prefer my Valspar screen color as that blue tint is not there.

Thanks for all your effort Breakstuff!


Peace Out~:D

Thanks for the input. I have been so curious how DLP projectors faired with Misty Evening. Does the paint help mask the SDE with DLP the way it does with LCD? Are the blacks enhanced? Do you see any more shadow detail in the dark regions? Can you now project a bigger image? Does it do anything for the so called 'rainbows'? TIA

I am going to be posting some screenshots with my X1 on the Misty Evening screen, I dont feel like painting part of the screen white again plus I dont want to buy any paint unless I decided to paint over the Misty Evening.
How about if I go out and buy a piece of shiny poster board to tape to the screen? Any other ideas to make a decent comparison?

Took some shots at your settings CMRA and I must say that there has to be a dramatic difference between your setup and mine.On my setup the image was blue and bright and just plain annoying, I am certain your image is much more prettier and doesn't resemble my image..

http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/62.jpg


I hate to say it but I am much more pleased with the matte white side than the Misty Evening. My screening wall used to be a paint color called "Behr Sparrow", and that Sparrow grey closely resembles the Misty Evening. I pretty much knew what to expect.. I'm sure the Misty would improve with calibration,but would still lack the bright,punchy colors that I prefer... but again, everyones setup is different so results may vary..

My Misty Evening was mixed with Lamp Black and Thalo Green and 5, 1 repectively. Are your guy's mix the same as mine?

I agree that the Misty Evening in the picture a few posts up is a little on the dark side, mine was the same way when i first painted it on my screen. I thought that this couldn't be right. After a couple of days though it lightened up and now appears a light gray with the slightest hint of blue.

I have not watched anything on it now since last Saturday night. I just got a new dvd player so i am going to put it through its paces this weekend :)

Oh and I almost forgot , I used Glidden exterior Satin which is more glossy then interior eggshell but less glossy than interior Satin.

Originally posted by James W. Johnson

How about if I go out and buy a piece of shiny poster board to tape to the screen? Any other ideas to make a decent comparison?

Shiny = "hot spots". Since your'e going through the trouble, pick up a sheet of white matte fiber board also known as Do-Able at your local Home Depot. It's cheap, easy to work with, does not hot spot, and makes a great white screen. You'll find it next to the pegboards.

Just for comparison I'm going to sample 'Gladiator' on my HTPC. I'll share my findings.

THIS EXPLAINS ALOT.

Having an HTPC equipped with an ATI 9000 and Power Player DVDxp with those settings did indeed provide a rather deplorable viewing experience. However, I did work with it awhile and got a much better image. But it was never quite satisfactory.
Next I tried WinDVD 4.0 with a Zoomplayer overlay for color control. Much better. In fact I was able to get the image very close to the Panny S55's. In both cases I had to cut the sharpness to 'zero' or the SDE became objectionable. I'm glad I underwent this exercise because I was never able to adjust my HTPC to this level of satisfaction before on film based material.
I conclude, after you get your projector, after you match your screen, you still have to overcome the associated equipment hurdle. The three simply are inseperable.

Well CMRA, When you were away playing with your HTPC, I thought I would try something new for a change..Today I visited my local HD store and purchased some more paint, I bought some aluminum paint,glaze coating, and mixed it with some leftover Behr Ultra Pure White (40/40/20 Just like that other thread specify's :p)... Applied it on a peice of Lexan cause thats all I had and wasn't ready to paint my walls silver yet.. Hung up the lexan on my screen and took some more pictures..This is what I got...


http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/001a.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/001.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/002.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/003.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/004.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/005.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/006.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/007.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/008.jpg


To make a long story short, I'm gonna keep my wall Behr Ultra Pure white,I'm quite happy with it..I'm gonna take that aluminum paint I mixed and paint the wheel covers on my car,and then I'm gonna sit back and enjoy my HT along with my shiny wheelcovers!

This is what I once mentioned about someone considering the HTPC route..I think the same applies to alot of people here trying to find success with different color/material combinations for a DIY screen..

"Sure HTPC(DIY Screens) has it advantages.. but its a long and frustrating road to achieve what may or may not be a better picture quality to the average user.. I choose the HTPC(DIY Screen) route because I love to tinker and get the most out what I have.. Is the effort involved worth the results?.. to me, yes.. to other average users?, probably not..

Kinda reminds me of the days I used to spend overclocking computers..

I could increase bus speed, voltages, install RAID setups, cooling, tweaking video cards and the end result would be a 2% gain here,4% gain there, another 1% gain somewhere else.. Was it all worth it?.. prolly not, I don't O/C pc's anymore cause I don't need the hassle involved... All in all, it wouldn't be a significant difference, but there would be an improvement..

Same is true with HTPC (and DIY screens)..

If the image looks good now, then let it be.."

BreakStuff

I believe you have made a wonderful and beneficial contribution to the members of this forum. I for one am pleased with your results. After your postings I'm inclined to rehang my white matte screen if only to see how it fairs with my new HTPC adjustments.
In my further testing I did notice a certain graininess to DVDs played through my HDTV setup that was not noticible with the Panny. Perhaps this is a limitation of a software decoder. It was quite good otherwise with my new adjustments.
I am still curious how you got those screen shots. My always come out more contrasty than what appears on my screen. Perhaps you can share this knowledge too?
For the time being, Misty Evening works for me the way Behr Ultra white works for you. And, that, I believe is exactly the way it should be. There are no perfect solutions and there must always be room for individual preferences.

Thanks for the good words CMRA,

Its the people like you that appreciate the effort that makes it worthwhile.. :)

As for the screenshots, nothing fancy just a Olympus D-490Z digital camera @ the lowest setting, tripod mounted and re-sized w/ Photoshop.. plain and simple..

Heres an interesting set of pics..

Shot #1 is the white/misty screen at my settings..

Shot #2 is the same with CMRA's settings..

http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/74.jpg
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pdquickk/75.jpg

Breakstuff, those are incredibly good pictures, how did you do it?

And let me thank you as well, I appreciate the pics alot..i'll probably
end up going back to Behr Ultra White as well. Your white screen certainly looks excellent, I too would leave it white. BTW is your Behr Ultra White a flat or eggshell or?

I have had a chance to rework 'Gladiator' through my HTPC. This image is close to my Panny S55.
Setup: HTPC, ATI Radeon 9000 Pro, WinDVD 4.0, Zoomplayer Color Overlay, 'Misty Evening' screen.

Z1 settings:

Cont=50
Brite=23
Red=28
Green=28
Blue=31
Sharp=0
Gamma=13

Zoomplayer Overlay settings:

Brite=737.5
Cont=12104.1
Gamma=321.3
Hue=76.92
Saturation=13405.6

The Zoomplayer overlay really helps alot. It is freely available via an internet download. It's still not the pristine image I get with my Panny on film based DVDs but is close enough color wise.

Painting a screen will save me some money to spend on a better DVD player. I went to Home Depot today (Central Florida) and the do not have the paint card (#NC 50) on display. They can (as well as any Home Depot) mix the paint from the product ID. The ID for Misty Evening from the Glidden website is 30BG 64/036. Make sure you specify the finish you want, CMRA recommends flat.

I am going to be painting the 6x7' area between built in book shelves and them "frame" it out with balck paint after the projector is in the correct place.

Man I can't wait.

...to the forum. I've done alot of testing with Misty Evening over the past few weeks. I can't describe in words how pleased I am with the results. However, you have to work with it. Don't expect to run your pj with factory default settings and get great results. Even a well calibrated pj, that is one set up for another surface, won't do the job either. BUT, once you get your pj optimized, your are in for a real treat. Best wishes.

I know CMRA found the particular blue/gray shade of "Misty Evening" good for minimizing SDE.

Given I have been experimenting with a 107" wide image, and using my basement HT wall for that (moving from my DaLite Matte 1 gain 96" wide screen) I thought I'd try a neutral gray for my BenQ 8700 DLP. Screen door is not an issue for me, but contrast or black level is, despite the rated 1800:1 or so its been actually in the Secrets of Home Theater review. It's rated lumens is 1000 though it was actually rated at 597 in the review - like most other HD2s when calibrated the actual lumen count drops.

So, at HD today I had some Behr "Sterling" (780E-3) mixed using Ultra white flat enamel. I'd estimate the mixture as about 10-12% gray, I figured I could more easily darken the shade if I had to. By the way there's a shade darker choice called "Silver Screen" that I was tempted to use just based on the name, but I'd guess it's closer to maybe 14% gray.

The results are very good, so far, although I have yet to put on the second coat and roller marks were just visible after three hours of drying (I'm going to have to bone up a bit on my roller technique, and perhaps flat enamel does not spread as well as some other types of paint).

I don't see a meaningful loss in brightness or dingy appearance at all to white/brights. Just as important, blacks are incrementally improved, colors are nicely saturated, and what was really surprizing to me was the improvement in the shadow detail and picture depth, or "3D" if you will. I can't make out any color tilt with the neutral gray - the BenQ is really accurate in its color balance. My brightness settings on the pj are up a couple of notches from their previously very low (and too low with some black crushing at times) settings to compensate for the gray and I think this actually helps out by getting out of the black crushing range in the electronics.

I was kind of skeptical about the whole gray screen thing, but this has me convinced. Now it's on to learning more about good roller technique for that second coat in the morning.

Thanks to all for the posts and info.

I painted my screen Behr Ultra white again yesterday and watched
'Solaris', I immediately felt like I was missing something....Am I already missing the Misty Evening screen? I saw 'Anger Management' the previous night on the Misty Evening screen and throughout the film the colors and
whites were bold and beautiful, I never felt like they were subdued at all and the blacks were excellent!
I did not paint half of my screen like I had planned because I was concerned that I would have trouble getting it uniform again if I did this. Today I am going to paint a piece of cardboard in the Misty Evening and tape it to the white screen...hopfully its enough to demermine which screen I prefer.

I would love to take some comparison pics but I cannot get any decent pics out of my Sony 3.0 Megapixel camera...can comebody tell me how to take screenshot pics? Its entirely possible that my camera is just not good enough for the task.

...I rehung my white matte screen. Yes, when I adjusted my PJ it looked very good. But, I too, noticed something missing. The blacks were not as deep for starters. Sometimes the colors (Moulin Rouge) were just too saturated- over the top if you will. Also on brite scenes ( Snow in Ice Age ) the whites became overpowering to the point of washing out the scene. I suspect it was reflected light falling back on to the screen. Of course, the SDE became more noticible.
Yeah, the grey so far remains my screen champion.

Looks as though screenshots must be resized to 640x640 or less to post. I'm working on it. My earlier attempt was denied. Please stand by.

James,

For screenshots:

Tripod is a must
No flash
Camera set to automatic exposure usually works.

Originally posted by christer W.
James,

For screenshots:

Tripod is a must
No flash
Camera set to automatic exposure usually works.


Thanks, I already figured it out though...these were taken yesterday
on my repainted white screen....I will not be using the Grey color.

Overall the grey helps the black level and shadow detail a great deal
but IMO at too high of an expense of color/white loss. Interestingly
it seems only larger patches of white/color took a loss while small
patches of color/white actually improved. The grey works good but
I cannot justify making a permanent change with it..I gotta have my
white/color punch.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bentvalve/misc.htm


BTW.......
CMRA, thanks for the thread!.. the more I experiement , the more happy I will be in the end with whatever I end up with.
I have some swatches of some Da-Lite material on the way next.

small sections of white looking better on the grey speaks to the overall better range the grey has. Your mind doesn't really see it as white, but it just seems whiter since the darks are so much darker and more detailed thorughout the range.

Large sections of white looking bad means it's not quite the right paint for you - it's just illuminating the screen so you can see that it's grey.

I'm still experimenting, but am finding a dusting of silver (I'm using the Behr) into wet glaze to be a rather magical (and miserable) combination. Requires a spraygun you have good control of.

You might try a lighter shade of the grey, or a mix with silver, or a combination of those.

C

BreakStuff-

I actually liked some of the screenshots of the silver mix better. What were your opinions of it, and why did you prefer the plain white better?

All this makes me appreciate Breakstuff's effort even more. Enclosed is unretouched screenshot on my Misty Evening screen. I did have to resize it to post. It is a little more contrasty than it actually looks like on the screen. The slight orange cast I attribute to my Panny S55 as it does the same when I play this disc on my direct view CRT. If you take a moment to capture this image and enlarge it you will notice how well Misty Grey handles SDE. Also, notice the rich blacks without the highlights being crushed.

Here is another pix. This time I used a tripod set up left of the PJ. ( note the irregular shape) Also it was sourced from my HTPC rather than my Panny this time. You be the judge.

CMRA

that pic of Monsters Inc is awesome. I have had similar results but that pic has much more of a 3D like effect. Now i know what you were talking about in the earlier posts of this thread.

I just bought a new dvd player and i still need to play around with the settings, right now my picture seems to be lacking the punch that it had before with the other dvd player. They are almost identical with the Faroudja processor but i think i have narrowed down to the component cable i am using now. It is a 12' cheapy cable that i bought with the dvd player, i am going to throw my shorter cable i was using before with the old player and see what happens.

Thanks for posting that pic.

I mostly like the screen-shoots of misty evening but seemed just a tad to dull for my tastses so I picked up a quart of Cloud nine, to give that a try. It is the color just below misty evening and looks just a bit brighter. I have not had a chance to apply it but will post my results. I do not have the can with me at work but the mix was similar to Misty Evening which is

COLORANT OZ 48 96
THALO GREEN 0 3 1
THALO BLUE 0 7 0
BROWN OXIDE 0 11 1


but it did not have any of the blue and about 1/4 less of the brown

pestario

I also saw the Cloud nine and was thinking about trying it also but went with the Misty Evening. Once it fully dried it lightened up a little and looks great, i really havent had any problems with it looking to dark.

Good luck with the Cloudnine

Yeah I figured worst case it wouldnt work and I could paint over it and only be out $7.50

Hopefully Ill get to try it in the next few days

OK, I'm a ddog rev1 fan, but for $7.50, I've got to give this a try. I've bought the paint and will report later...

OK, the eameres report on my brief comparison between ddog 1.0 and misty evening. Please bear in mind I'm NOT a professional painter, so my ddog screen (applied to a sheetrock wall) has definite imperfections due to my spray technique (or lack thereof).

I gave one half of 1'x4' piece of pre-primed drywall 2 coats of misty evening (hereafter referred to as ME) and the other half with flat Behr Ultra white, and let it dry. Although non-ideal, for conveniece sake the paint was applied with a foam brush. Then I fired up a bunch of test DVDs, including shrek, final fantasy, and some test DVD's containing all sorts of imagery designed by a large consumer electronics manufacturer that shall remain nameless. I also watched some HD content from my cable system.

One more caveat, desiring a little more gain, I used eggshell ME rather than flat. The ME is quite impressive, especially considering it's $7.50 a quart! OK, now the results (these were verified by Mrs. eameres). The black of the ME were on par with the ddog mixture, and both of them outclassed the ultra white. The ME however fared better at the bright end of the range, not quite in the range of the white, but better than the ddog mix. I think there was also a certain warmth in the colors, especially greens and reds, to the ME sample that the ddog mix was lacking. TO me it seemed most obvious in flesh tones.

So... since there are imprefections in my screen (the wall) and I can't experiment with my sprayer in my nearly finished room, I've decided to carefully foam roller over the ddog with ME for the time being (I'm convinced the ME will roll nicely).

Now, neither the ddog or ME has the punch of the silverstar, but I think the SS still washes out blacks a bit. Time permitting, I'll be building a framed muslin screen and will be experimenting with the DDog formula further, because the SS has convinced me there is something to be said for silver! Maybe a ME screen with silver "fogged" on top...

Eric.

I actually liked some of the screenshots of the silver mix better. What were your opinions of it, and why did you prefer the plain white better?

Chriš -

The silver image looked very nice, bright colors and black levels...however the paint itself was tricky to work with. I used a roller to apply the paint and roller marks were visible along with paint uniformity issues. You would definately need to be patient and paint the silver as smooth and evenly as possible since the bright image enhances all the imperfections on the screen.

I would have experimented with the silver more if I had a seperate screen, but right now my screen is my wall and I didn't think one big silver wall would be too appealing to guest's.. :p

Thought I'd post this screenshot on this thread also. Can't let one eye have all the attention.

Originally posted by eameres
OK, I'm a ddog rev1 fan, but for $7.50, I've got to give this a try. I've bought the paint and will report later...

I was hoping someone would step up and give us a comparison with ddog 1.0. I'm very interested, but I'm tied up for the next couple weeks and can't do the comparison myself. Please share your results.

Thanks,
-Zag

Fall a few posts behind and look what happens...
eameres, thanks for the report.

Like Breakstuff mentions, I think the silver holds a lot of promise, but it will require a lot of experimenting and practice for me to get it right. Because of it's simplicity of application, I'll be using ME as an interim solution. Right now my main priority is to have something without any noticable imperfections (i.e. blotches), even if that means postponing silver for a while.

E (for one) is waiting on the edge of this seat for the results of ddogs latest experiments.

Eric.

ps: NEWS FLASH, I picked up a quart of Krylon silver metallic at Walmart on my way to work this AM, I just couldn't resist. Will post results later...

Also noticed a "hammered metallic" spray finish that looks interesting, but it's a gloss finish, maybe with a satin clear coat on top ?.?.?... Since that's a spary, I'll leave it until I construct a screen for experimenting later.

Well tonight I shoulfd get the ceilng max past the point were I can put my projector up without it getting in the way. That will then allow me to tape off the screen area and paint it. If I get that far I will try to post a pic of how Cloud Nine(Tad lighter than Misty).

I found a convenient place to pick up some valspar (McKloskey) pewter metallic on my way home tonight. I'm in an experimenting mood. I have a hunch the pewter will be a bit closer to the firehawk than the silver metallic. I've been itching to try that one.

jeesh thats like 5 different paints I want to buy and try now :)

Who makes Valspar?

Behr actually has a grey color entitled "Silver Screen" that might be promising if anyone needs another test paint.

Valspar is a brand. It is carried by Lowe's. I used the Gray Plank. Looks very good.

I have a question that is causing me some confusion. The gist of this thread is that we are all looking for a gray colored screen to improve blacks. Better colors are a by product. Some find that a given color is too dark, or that without using a gray color, the whites are too strong and so forth.

I painted on the Gray Plank from Valspar. It seemed pretty dark to me as I was painting it, but the images from my PJ were excellent. I then ran Avia. Even with the relativelly dark screen, I still had to back off the contrast and brightness. I didn't have Avia before the gray paint, so I can't compare the settings. It makes sense that the brightness and contrast would have been needed to be turned down even more than with the Gray Plank.

So if you calibrate correctly with Avia, shouldn't the colors look the same regardless of the screen color?

SDE is minimized with the gray finish, no doubt. That makes sense as the grid is essentially grya/black so the gray finish is going to absorb it better than a matte white surface.

It is all so confusing. I think I will just look at the movie and not the screen.

James Johnson wrote:

My Misty Evening was mixed with Lamp Black and Thalo Green and 5, 1 repectively. Are your guy's mix the same as mine?


This was the same mixture for the paint I bought as well. Anyone else here have a different mix?

CMRA,

I might be asking a question that you've already answered, but regarding your recent screen shots, are those reflective of an AVIA calibration?

Looking at those shots, the colors seem overly vibrant with a blue tint. Not sure if you've calibrated and were able to back off on the blue color to off-set the blue tint in the paint color.

I was planning on trying this ME, but from the look of those screen shots, I'm a little hesitant, due to overall blue tint.

Who makes Valspar?

It's a Lowe's paint, Valspar Gray Plank Interior Flat (code: 101-21.5, 107-1, 116-1).

I used this on my screen and am extremely happy with the results. Here's an old screen shot I took way back, even before AVIA when I first got the PJ and did an eyeball calibration.

It's not a great screen shot and it's been significantly reduced, so PQ is poor.

http://home.earthlink.net/~peregrinefalcon/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/satine2.jpg



Peace Out~:D

Well, the krylon silver metallic was a failure, hotspotted like mad. Interesting but way too shiny a finish.

The valspar pewter was also a faillure, way too dark and sparkly. (at $22 a quart, fortunately I can return it!)

I also picked up some valspar silver metallic glaze for the heck of it. I did a extremely thin wash of that on top of the misty evening. I'm not sure if it was just the difference in the sheen (maybe starting to head towards satin), but it did seem to gain some oomph in the whites and bright colors, not nearly silverstar oomph, but definitely a step in that direction. I'm going to do a larger sample. One problem, is tha it does seem to accentuate the blue a bit. Maybe I need a base with a little less blue than Misty Evening?

I'll probably stop by Home depot again tomorrow, maybe I'll see what "silver screen" looks like...

Eric.

PS, NEWS FLASH!!! : Silver is just not happening for me without spraying. I love the added brightness, but there's way to much unwanted texture.

eameres -

Did the metallic glaze darken the shade of the ME?

You may want to use a brighter "base" color than the ME, perhaps Ultra White or a light shade of grey...

I think that eventually if we keep working together we will find success or at least find a solution that will suit a majority of us "paint happy" screen people...

I do believe the success will come from combining multiple paint colors and not going to come from one single shade of store bought paint.. Aluminum paint seems to be the favorable paint choice of everyone trying to find the perfect shade for their DIY screen, so its a good bet that some kind of aluminum paint is going to be in the final product.. the question is how much and what to mix it with...

I am familiar with the "ddogs" formula and I know he put forth alot of effort, I however feel there is an easier answer to the 40/40/20 formula. The ddoggies mix seems to be more paint sprayer friendly since there is alot of people having a hard time applying the paint evenly.. what we need is a paint "roller" friendly formula..

Before you sprayer people flame me . consider that I also own some high end automotive paint sprayers (gravity feed) as well as airbrushes (siphon feed) I think we need to steer away from the stuff that nobody can afford and look more towards paint rollers, there easy and cheap..

Hey, and checkout my toolbox and PC I use at work.. I painted
this (http://www.coolcasegallery.net/ccg/viewcase.php?cid=00796) (caution:slow site) not too long ago, however I used a sprayer and not a roller.. :p

eameres -

From what I've read, painting silver with a roller w/o leaving marks is going to be quite difficult.. You need to mix the silver with another "base" color so the silver can be applied easier..

Doggies mixture is 40% silver/ 40% glaze/ 20% white..

So... I'm thinking if we are using a grey shade we could cut back the aluminum for easy application.. maybe a 70% white/grey 30% aluminum??

Breakstuff... I hear you loud and clear. And this is NOT a flame, but I am strongly suspecting that the bestest of the best DIY screens are going to have to be sprayed - and not with a Wagner. So, IF (a big IF) that's true, I am thinking some good advice on how and what to rent beg borrow or steal would be in order... no ? Meanwhile on a separate path, the "prfect" rolled painted screen is a worthy goal in it's own right. I don;t wnt to leave anyone out, but don't want to mislead anyone. Simply put ya can't do with a roller what ya can with a paint gun (and not just talking fogging silver into a wet on wet base of glaze). Maybe in the end we'll have regional painters to whom you bring your screen and for a 6 pack or something they'll shoot it. Lots of folks here have painting ability <g>. ANyway, Thanks for your post.

Chris

Glacier991 -

No disrespect taken..

I am not that concerned about finding the "perfect" screen since myself and others like me are just using just a plain wall as a viewing screen... how good could it get?

I think its more of finding the "right" color combination(s) that give the best or most favorable results to the regular DIY type of person..

And what ever works best for us "wall screen" people might even work better for the people using a seperate screen material that could also be painted.

I also think the formula could be "rolled" on with better than satisfactory results.. ; )

Before calling it a night, I mixed some of the krylon silver into the misty evening and painted some samples. The krylon is much glossier than the misty evening, so I'm not sure if the added brightness I'm getting is from the silver, or just the finish. I went with the krylon over adding the valspar silver glaze, since the valspar seems to overaccentuate blue a little.

I think what we need is a gray/silver metallic that is an eggshell finish (that's what the silverstar example appears like). All the paint manufacturers seem to assume if you want metallic, you want gloss.

Well, I think eventually I'll be upgrading my spray equipment from the Wagner Fine Coat (the $475+ Wagner SoftSpray 2600/2900 seem to be regarded fairly highly)

Eric.

Some of you have inquired about ME. Now showing in person...

Hmmnn, they mixed mine up with just regular interior latex (eggshell, not flat). I wonder how the interior/exterior stucco/masonry angle affects things...

Originally posted by eameres
Hmmnn, they mixed mine up with just regular interior latex (eggshell, not flat). I wonder how the interior/exterior stucco/masonry angle affects things...

Just so there is no confusion see the attached photo. Now everbody can be on the same page.

Has anyone looked at the silver colors Glidden makes....go to the URL and then slide the ruler all the way to the right. There seems to be some good silver colors..... http://www.glidden.com/NUSGLI/colors/selector.htm

Unfortunately (in my opinion) those "silvers" to me are really just mroe shades of gray. I'm stalking a sprayless silverstar! I've got a few different pots on the stove right now, I'll report my results if they turn out encouraging. I'll give you one hint... behr's venetian plaster top coat... (jeez, now I'm starting to sound like dDog and CMRA!)

Eric.

From the Behr site,

"Apply using a straight-edged, flexible steel trowel or wall scraper. Round corners with sandpaper to reduce edge marks."

Woaa! What the @#$%& ! :)

The other info can be found here (http://www.behr.com/behrx/act/view/products_detail?prodGroupId=22&catName=Faux%2FDecorative+Finishes&catId=61#312)

Originally posted by cburbs
Has anyone looked at the silver colors Glidden makes....go to the URL and then slide the ruler all the way to the right. There seems to be some good silver colors..... http://www.glidden.com/NUSGLI/colors/selector.htm

I tried their 'chromium'. I like the color. It resulted in typical grey fashion when used as a screen finish. That is, much improved blacks and more shadow detail but also crushed whites and duller colors. Ended up painting my storage room with it. But I like the color!

I just got my first HT pj yesterday, a HS10. I have a large, blank, smooth new wall painted several years ago with a Sherwin William eggshell off-white somethingorother paint. The out-of-the-box experience was pretty good. But, of course, I know it can be better with pj tweaking and a better screen surface. Reading this great thread today (and looking at Stewart and Da-Lite prices) has convinced me to try painting my wall.

I live in the middle of nowhere with no Home Depot or Lowe's nearby (try 75 miles - *SOB*). I do have Sears, Sherwin Williams, PPG and True Value close by. Not knowing much about paint.................if I take the Misty Evening Glidden formula just posted by CMRA can any good paint shop duplicate it? I assume that the best pure white flat latex is the starting point? Does anyone else have any experience with the HS10 and these kind of painted surfaces?

Thanks for all of the great info, all of you!

BTW, the new HS10 picture will also improve when the Bravo D1 DVD player with DVI output arrives soon!

John in Northern NY

Originally posted by eameres
I think what we need is a gray/silver metallic that is an eggshell finish (that's what the silverstar example appears like). All the paint manufacturers seem to assume if you want metallic, you want gloss.

Eric.

Any chance in taking a picture (close-up) of the silverstar swatch next to a grey or white swatch and posting it? BTW, do you know the current cost per sq. ft. price of the silverstar? Please post.

The silverstar is the priciest of the screens I've seen, you can contact the AVScience guys for a current price, but sit down when you read their response.

I don't have a picture handy, but the more experimenting and comparing I do, the more I admire the Silverstar. It is an amazing screen. A typical gray screens (including the professional ones) are not in the same ballpark. My hand keeps slowly inching toward the checkbook, but it would wind up being a large check.

I am still convinced that with the right spray equpiment and formula, you should be able to come up with something with some of the characteristics that make the SS so appealing. A white base with a light silver coating (like a proper ddog screen) show promise. Since I don't have a new sprayer yet. I'm experimenting w/ rollers and other temporary solutions.

If you botch a ddog screen (like I'm now convinced I did) it becomes a pretty good gray screen, comparable to the Misty Evening.

The silver coating is really the trick...

If you cannot afford a silver star, or afford the time, effort and frustration of experimenting (a lot!), you should avoid getting a screen sample of Silverstar, it will drive you nuts otherwise (as it has me) It's just THAT good (in my humble opinion).

Eric.

CMRA,

Here are 3 photos from Tryg's Screen Material Review. The first is a white unity gain screen from DaLite. DaMat 1.0
http://home.comcast.net/~stevexl5/3_DaMat.jpg

The second photo is the SilverStar.
http://home.comcast.net/~stevexl5/23_VSS.jpg

The third is the FireHawk.
http://home.comcast.net/~stevexl5/10_FH.jpg

I just got a new HS10. I have been running standard DVD input with S-Video connectors for several days (a Bravo D1 is on order) and playing around with paint on a very smooth drywall. Throw is about 13' and I am getting a 94" wide image. Ambient light is controlled pretty well in our cellar HT. The FP is now on a table but will be ceiling mounted eventually.

I have been reading all about the HCCV, SS, Paint issues and now am evaluating a 1/2 flat white paint and 1/2 Misty Evening "ripoff" wall . I hve no Glidden dealer nearby. I painted the entire wall with a True Value thick, rubbery, block filler flat white paint that contains crystalline silica. Then I put a grey paint over 1/2 of the flat white. I tried to emulate the Misty Evening by mixing (to a quart of True Value bright white flat ceiling) six Black Lamp and 1 Thalo Green. With LOTRTT being the standard, so far, my family likes the white better. Blacks are great, screendoor is improved and saturation is better with the grey paint but there is no punch to the image like we get with the white. But the color accuracy and saturation with the white is lacking. I guess we have concluded we prefer the "bright TV"-type picture like some others have alluded to. Bottom-line, I don't think any paint-on-drywall makes us happy so far and I will probably be buying a screen in the future.

Any suggestions or critiques on the paint? I plan to do nothing until I evaluate the images on the 1/2 grey - 1/2 white wall with the better DVD images from the BRAVO D1 with DVI-D input. More info and observations here from LCD users would help!

This is a great thread on a great forum! Thanks for all of the help!

John in Northern NY

Did you adjust your HS10 to compensate for the grey? If you don't your images will come out like Breakstuffs'.

Oops. Thanks for the reminder. I am still learning about all of this. After reading your post I just bid on the AVIA DVD and book on eBay. I am not drawing any conclusions until I get the Bravo D1 running AND calibrate. I am leaving the 1/2 and 1/2 screen up for awhile!

John in Northern NY

Well, I finally got to playing with the Behr silver fogged into the glaze today. I was spraying with an HVLP gun onto Doable board.

This is NOT an easy task. I didn't remember to bring strainers with me, and the gun plugged on me a couple times. I also should have thinned the glaze more and applied less... the silver had a strong tendency to mottle in it. In frustration I took the screen outside to wash it off with the garden hose. In the sun, I could definitely see that there is possibilities in such a screen however. So, weekend after next I'll bring strainers and try again. I think this has real potential but OMG what a royal PITA. I am wondering if it is humanly possible to get it right.

Chris

This thread needs a little spice. Here's a new screenshot. There's more where this came from on my other 'screen' thread. ( Z1 on Misty Evening )

here is a shot using Cloud nine, 1 lighter than Misty Evening, my digital camera isnt so good

another cloud nine shot

Originally posted by pestario
here is a shot using Cloud nine, 1 lighter than Misty Evening, my digital camera isnt so good

Something does seem amiss. What camera are you using? Have you tried different settings? How much better are your actual viewing results? Maybe someone with a similar camera can help.

Following this thread for a few weeks and it was perfectly timed for our newly upgraded theater. Had a 78" DaLite permwall 1.1 or 1.2 in our dedicated room, but I wanted more! Upgraded to the Epson TW100 and so I was pretty sure a gray screen would do the trick for the added contrast I wanted. Enter CMRA and Misty Evening.

I looked, but as others have mentioned, the East Coast HDs and Lowe's don't carry Parkland materials, so I improvised and got a sheet of some glossy white coated hardboard with the intention of painting the ME on the glossy side. Also made a 1x4 frame to solidify the whole thing. I scuffed the glossy white surface and, following CMRA's advice, I primed it with Kilz2 before coating with 3 coats of ME. I used the groovy foam roller since I figured it would give few nap issues - and because I couldn't find any fine nap cotton rollers at the HD.

Upon mounting we watched a few movies and I eventually got around to calibrating with Avia. One word: WOW! As CMRA keeps mentioning to folks, you must perform this calibration before you can get meaningful info from the comparison. My suggestion: watch a few scenes from a well-filmed and transfered movie (Attack of the clones, Lotr, Gladiator) and get to know them with your current screen. Even take pics if that will help. Then try the new one (ME, or your favorite silver concoction, etc) and recalibrate with Avia before any viewing. Then revisit those favorite scenes and take more pics in the same conditions.

My settings from the old screen to the new ME screen were dramatically different and I was unimpressed with the ME until I did it. It wasn't bad, but it was pretty dull. After calibration, the contrast was improved enough that I'm sold. The colors aren't changed dramatically and I notice none of the white issues others have mentioned. I should point out that I'm running a Bravo D1 player with the DVI output (there's no other way to run this thing as the component output is pretty poor) and the ME screen does convey a slight 3D effect as CMRA said at the beginning of the thread.

I watched a few more scenes in Attack of the Clones and Toy Story 2 last night and the picture is outstanding. The Matrix and Se7en will be other standards to test the improved contrast (I don't own Moulin Rouge). Maybe by this weekend I'll get those notched off the list. I also have to buy Monsters, Inc and Shrek to see more of the 3D effect. I'll try to post some screen shots from my watching, both from movies and HDTV.

Concensus thus far from me and the wife: better than the Dalite and the contrast alone is worth the $65 invested. Now I have to work on a masking system...:)

What da-lite material were you using? I like ME, but don't you feel you've given up some gain?

Don't know what the material was - got it used on eBay from a guy who had no clue and no documentation. Best I can figure it was pretty standard, basic material with a gain of around 1.1 or 1.2.

The ME reduced the overall light level, but I calibrated and the light output became very similar to the Dalite screen. In fact, one of the only differences I could detect (outside the improved contrast level) was a slight decrease in red color (using the red color filter). The TW100 had perfect color out of the box (using the Dalite), but with the ME, the Red level is slightly reduced - maybe -5%.

I could play around to "correct" that, but it will have to wait until I see Moulin Rouge again. In the meantime, I haven't noticed it in real-life viewing. The picture really pops off the screen now, with vibrant colors and now deeper blacks.

BTW, screen now is around 94", so even going that much bigger the picture improved. That much more impressive, I think.

Scoob-

I have the TW100 myself and have yet to set it up. Am very curious about the DIY stuff. Also mulling getting raw HCCV material from Dalite (about $4.50 SF) and making a DIY frame. Now the Siverstar tease comes along at a price that is in a different world. Don't mind making a mistake with a DIY ME screen, but a SS bumble would be painful. Am following your posts with keen interest.

Jeff

An appropriate followup to scoob5555..............

I am still waiting on my AVIA disk to arrive but I have learned to tweak my new HS10 with the 1/2 flat white and 1/2 "ripoff" Misty Evening drywall (see my earlier post.) Then my BRAVO D1 and DVI cable arrived today. WOW! Both sides of the screen improved dramatically and all artifacts are gone, including those on the mountains during the opening scene slow pan shots of NZ from LOTRTT. But the grey/ME side, after further tweaking including maximum contrast, just blows us away. If a rich uncle appears some day I may seriously consider the SS screen (or if a GREAT Powerbuy comes along) but until then................tomorrow I paint the entire wall with two more coats of grey! And the AVIA disk should arrive too!

John in Northern NY

p.s. L-COM has better deals on DVI-D cables. Unless you need longer than 15'.

Even with the same projector, screen, projected image size, the room or environment, and condition of the lamp/bulb would play a part in a projected difference between two people's observed results. Also, the capture process would play a part in this, too.

Here are some pics with my calibrated TW100 on the new 94" Misty Evening DIY screen. I'll post 4 or 5 of them with samples from HDTV, Gladiator, and LOTR. One per post as I can't figure out how to do more than one either. I'll work on the size as I go.

LOTR pic

Gladiator pic to compare to CMRA's and BreakStuff's.

More Gladiator.

Jscopus,

I agree with you about taking the chance on DIY before delving too deep in the money trap of the big-time screens. $65 total for my new screen and the above results show (me at least) that it is worth it and wasn't a waste. Of course what works for me may not work for you, but it's worth the shot. And if you don't like the ME, you can simply stretch the Dalite material over the frame you built for the ME screen. So it works well no matter what.

Hope this helps.

Scoob-

Great stuff. Am sheepish to say those are the first pics I have seen from the TW100. Never was able to demo it- bought it on a recommendation/ProgCentral review and amazing connection/deal in Japan for $2100. Just turned it on to make sure it worked. Am pretty juiced seeing these pics. I may simply buy the HCCV material and make a frame. Figure that will run about $150. Just need to find the post with the best directions for a sturdy frame.

Jeff

If I were you, since you're leaning toward the Dalite material, I'd build the frame and mount the material. I'd also buy a 4x8 sheet of something at your local HD or Lowe's and a quart of Kilz2 primer and a quart of the Misty Evening. It will cost you maybe another $30. Don't worry about mounting the painted board until after you've evaluated it (don't forget to use Avia, Video Essentials, or the new Sound & Vision DVD to calibrate each surface).

You could be the test subject for comparing the two surfaces here since I haven't been able to find a direct comparison between the two. It would take a little time and effort for the painting, but it would also give you lots of experience calibrating the TW100. Since there are so many tweaking options on it, (to paraphrase Martha) 'this is a very good thing.' And you can help future generations of DIYers with this $100 decision.

FYI, as it has been said often before, these pics can look too dark depending on your monitor's settings. At work my pics are much darker than at home simply because of the fluorescent lighting. I assure you that on-screen, the images are bright and have sufficient contrast to make me happy.

And the direct comparison between my Gladiator1 shot and CMRA's and BreakStuff's shows either that I must like a darker picture overall or our digital cameras are very different, but the contrast level using ME does improve matters. And I maintain that Avia calibration looks perfect on my screen.

Just goes to show that a number of factors affect the screen shots posted anywhere online, unless all pics are taken by the same camera under identical conditions. In other words, use them for informal comparisons, but don't bet the farm on them.

Scoob:

Very good point about the differences in digital snapshots. I have a Canon S20 PowerShot 3.3 and have not been able to get good enough screen shots to post here.

And I also agree with you about the ME. I finally got my AVIA disk yesterday (Bravo D1 DVD with DVI-D arrived the day before) and watched Gladiator last night (on SONY HS10) with ME drywall. Astounding, just as good as your snapshots show. I am painting the rest of my cellar HT today with ME (actually, a True Value ripoff mixture) just to mute some of the reflective light I am getting from the screen (current walls are white.) For $15-60/sq.ft. I think the SS or Firehawk or HCCV screens are going to wait a long time! I have spent a total of $35 on this "screen"!

John in Northern NY

How about trying the Canon EOS Digital Rebel? Its suppose to be more SLR than digicam.

CMRA....

When you say you have to calibrate your pj to match it with the misty paint... what type of changes are you exactly making?

Contrast
Brightness
Color
Tint
RGB gains/bias
etc...

I'm not asking so much which parameters you're changing, but how you are changing them. I just want to get an idea of what level of calibration is required.

I am not CMRA but I am sure your changes will depend upon your projector, ambient ,etc.

For a new HS10 and misty paint, on smooth drywall, very dark ambient, 100" diagonal, from the factory defaults, with the AVIA disk:

Contrast - up to MAX
Brightness - down about 20%
Color - up 4%
Hue - to green 2%
Sharpness - up about 15%

Hope this helps. Yes, the Brightness going down surprised me. A second coat of Misty is going on today and these figures may change with that. Like I said, with different pj's and ambient this will all change.

John in Northern NY

John,

I have an HS10 as well, can you translate that into exact settings rather than %'s?

Thanks,

Eric.

It seems like it's simple user level adjustments which at least warrants a try. I'll wait and see if CMRA is calibrating using any different parameters.

John...

Are you making these adjustments by eye. If by test disk.. which patterns are you using. Maxing out the contrast on your hs10 can't be good. You're more than likely crushing your whites big time.

The calibration is done using the Avia or similar DVD disc. The settings for just about everything are included on the disc with instructions on what parameter you're changing and how to find it on your display device. The idea is to get as close to NTSC standard color as possible with appropriate brightness and contrast levels.

The magnitude of the changes depends on all of the things actionweber mentions and will vary between each device and with each person's preferences/capabilities. The differences between my old Dalite and the new ME screen were surprising to me - and I love to tweak. My white level and black levels both needed to be changed dramatically to attain the calibrated picture I desired.

The best solution is to get one of these calibration discs and watch it, taking notes on some of the tips given. Then run through the settings and manipulate your display device to try to match the standard. You may not agree with all of the new settings, but you can always change them to match with your desired picture. The discs help you focus on how changing this parameter might affect others and they give you the necessary patterns to measure against.

John,

I chose the route of painting a deep blue throughtout the rest of our dedicated theater to enhance the perceived contrast and dull any reflective light. More details on the My Home Theater section of projectorcentral.com Note the slightly different picture of the LOTR ring posted there from my earlier post here. Part of the difference is the one on pjcentral is from about 2 seconds later than the one posted here (just as the flame engulfs the ring). The other big difference is the screen. ME simply rocks!

While the room looks like a cave during the day, the amount of ambient light is down significantly. And the whole point is for it to look like a cave. :D

Anyhoo, I can recommend a darker color for the remainder of the room's surfaces

Scoob

Eameres:

Sure, but let me get a second coat on and recalibrate first. One or two more days. I can already see a slight difference in color after the first coat dried for a few days.

I used %'s because he did NOT have an HS10. BTW, I am finding the misty paint great for reducing reflective light from the screen and other small ambient sources. I had a bright white plastic-over-fiberglass hung ceiling with 2x4 panels and white grid. Painted the misty over the panels and grid and VOILA! Reflective light gone! And the wife is much happier than if I had used the flat black I threatened to use!

pocoloco:

See scoob's response. Heis right-on. My initial calibration was done exactly to all the NTSC standards on the AVIA disk. I plan to recalibrate to the same standards after a second coat is very dry. Then I will use it for a week and tweak to our preferences. The only thing it looks like I may do is mute the blue a little. The THALO GREEN pigment in ME, which is actually a blue-green, definitely enhances the blue tints. But I will wait for more paint and one week's brain adjustment!

John in Northern NY

I'm still very new to this, but its great to read through all these alternative colors / methods.

Thanks everyone for the hard work!
-Andrew

Eameres:

My "Misty Evening" paint was a gallon of True Value EZ-Kare flat ceiling, bright white with 24 B (Lamp Black) and 4 D (Thalo Green) pigments. After a second coat on drywall and AVIA calibration (via a Bravo DVD player with DVI-D output) in a very dark room my HS10 (33 hours on the lamp) settings are:

Contrast - MAX
Brightness - 32
Color - 52
Hue - 51
Sharpness - 46

Personal preference settings for movies are:

Black Level Adj. - Off
Color Temp - Low
Cinema Black - On

Hope this helps.

John in Northern NY

Eameres:

After a second coat of my Misty Evening paint (1 gal. True Value EZ-Kare flat ceiling, bright white with 24-B and 4-D pigment) and AVIA calibration in a very dark room, my HS10 settings (with 33 hours on the lamp) are:

Contrast - MAX
Brightness - 32
Color - 52
Hue - 51
Sharpness - 46

My personal preferences for movies are:

BLack Level Adj - Off
Color Temp - Low
Cinema Black - On

Hope this helps.

John in Northern NY

OOps - sorry for the double post. My screen froze on the first one and I didn't think it worked. DOH.

Originally posted by pocoloco
CMRA....

When you say you have to calibrate your pj to match it with the misty paint... what type of changes are you exactly making?

Contrast
Brightness
Color
Tint
RGB gains/bias
etc...

I'm not asking so much which parameters you're changing, but how you are changing them. I just want to get an idea of what level of calibration is required.

I wish I had a effective answer for you. Different PJs, environments, and source hardware will dramatically effect your outcome. As was witnessed earlier by readers of this thread my 'settings' produced wretched results on Breakstuff's setup. That aside, boosting the contrast and gamma while reducing the brightness is almost mandatory going from white to grey. Color adjustments I leave up to you.
Just know, when it looks right, it is right. Practice makes perfect. Learn to trust your eyes.

Has anyone tried to project on a blind??

I'm not sure this is the correct word, we call these "stores" in French, I'm refering to the things that are on a roll, that you pull down to block the light in a room. They have of a plastic feeling to them, the color are often a pale gray and they occult light. To the touch they sure seem like commercial screens.

Its while I was going around to see different projectors, that I checked the screens and was impress as to how much they look and feel like "blinds".

There's many stores around selling these, and they can cut them to size.

Indeed, many people use similar material. If you search on 'Blackout' material (referred to as BO in many posts) you'll probably find hundreds of hits in this forum.

I believe much of what is sold on eBay as screen material is actually BO. Lots of folks, including people on this thread, paint over the BO with Misty Evening and other concoctions for better viewing results.

So you're not too far off base here.;)

Originally posted by pocoloco
It seems like it's simple user level adjustments which at least warrants a try. I'll wait and see if CMRA is calibrating using any different parameters.



Since everybody's setup is different I find it futile to give my settings out. Mine are even adjusted on a per DVD basis. One universal measure when going from white to grey is to adjust for luminance. For this you'll need to boost the contrast and gamma, and reduce your brightness.

In the meantime, how about a troublesome screenshot? Some have complained about the blue. Heck, what blue. What about the yellow? Same screen, same settings. "Talk to me Harry!"

CMRA, give me the time of this shot, and I'll snap a shot off the same DVD, but I can't go through all of Moulin Rouge to find the same frame!

I'm just trying to be helpful.

John:

Isn't having the contrast maxed out all the way not good for the picture quality? I'm not sure why you didn't lower the contrast and raise the brightness more.

Jimmy

Let me field that one. Too much brightness simply washes out the picture. Your blacks suffer greatly. Increase contrast and gamma and avoid the wash out.

CMRA is exactly right. Those settings I gave out were after AVIA calibration to NTSC standards. Within the other operating parameters I listed. I use that setting for DVD movies with "normal" levels of black and bright. But, I have programmed two other settings into my USER buttons on the HS10. One is set with Cinema Black off and higher brightness settings for viewing analog TV (ugh - I don't get much HDTV up here.) The other is set for darker-than-normal DVD movies. It too has CB off but no brightness adjustment. The point is that EVERYTHING CHANGES! It all depends upon your own operating parameters, ambient conditions and personal preferences. That is the beauty of digital projectors, whether they are LCD or DLP. Start out with calibration and tweak from there to whatever looks great for you!

John in Northern NY

Hi,

I´m from Portugal, and here we don't have any glidden paint retailer, so i went to their site and i discover the color code for Misty evening.

That will be. 30BG 64/036.

But, there is a problem. Here in Europe, the color codes are regulated by NCS (Natural colour system) and so i ask if any of you can tell me ao can i make the correspondence between colour codes.

Vinny

Hello Vinny,

Talvez posso ajudar?

An easier route would be to try to acquire some "Faux Finish" Silver Metallic Glaze and mix it gradually into a Pure White Flat. Roll each mix onto 3 or 4 peices (.4m x .4m) of Plywood or Gypsium Wallboard and shoot an image onto all of them as they sit side to side and touching. You'll zone into what's best pretty quickly.

A boa Sorte! Conte-me de seus resultados.

Maurice



< Oh yeah....Portuguese provided by http://www.freetranslation.com >

I will do that !

Obrigado.

I post my results ASAP.

Originally posted by vinnypt
Hi,

I´m from Portugal, and here we don't have any glidden paint retailer, so i went to their site and i discover the color code for Misty evening.

That will be. 30BG 64/036.

But, there is a problem. Here in Europe, the color codes are regulated by NCS (Natural colour system) and so i ask if any of you can tell me ao can i make the correspondence between colour codes.

Vinny

Earlier in this thread there is a screenshot of the paint label. The codes are printed on the label.

I have already seen it.

But, there are no NCS code.
In Europe we don't have any correspondence to that codes.

I have sent an email to glidden and they answer that they dont have any code correspondence to NCS.

Originally posted by vinnypt
I have already seen it.

But, there are no NCS code.
In Europe we don't have any correspondence to that codes.

I have sent an email to glidden and they answer that they dont have any code correspondence to NCS.

Since Glidden responds via eMail perhaps they could send you a color swatch. If so, take the color swatch to your local paint retailer and have them computer match the shade.

I looked through this thread, so I'm hoping I didn't miss it... is there an exact color code I should give them or should I just ask for Misty Evening?

-MP

See page 8 of the thread for a picture of the base and color code. Will be giving this a whirl myself as I plan to also make a HCCV DIY screen.

Jeff

Originally posted by Jscopus
See page 8 of the thread for a picture of the base and color code. Will be giving this a whirl myself as I plan to also make a HCCV DIY screen.

Jeff

I for one would be most interested in your direct comparison results with HCCV. I await your findings with great anticipation. CMRA

Is there a way to use a material screen (like BO cloth) and paint it? Or should I just try and get a solid backing like Doright or Polywall? I don't have a sprayer, so would have to roll it on. My problem is getting a solid screen that is big enough. I know the Parkland is, but the other stuff sadly isn't at 48 inches.

-MP

Originally posted by madpoet
Is there a way to use a material screen (like BO cloth) and paint it?

You can paint BO cloth, you just need to put a couple coats of primer on first. It's also a little harder to roll than on something like MDF or parkland, but it's possible.

Would you recommend painting it before stretching it over the frame or after? I would hate for the wetness of the paint to loosen the fabric once it is already stretched.

-MP

Originally posted by eameres
CMRA, give me the time of this shot, and I'll snap a shot off the same DVD, but I can't go through all of Moulin Rouge to find the same frame!

I'm just trying to be helpful.

It's been so long I'm confused myself. If your talking about the 'Satine and Christian' back lit stage shot, it's either in the last chapter or the one before it, obviously at the end of the movie. When I find time for more testing I'll make sure to write down the h-m-s for future reference. BTW, I should have a new 'silver' screen to compare against sometime this month.

Originally posted by madpoet
Is there a way to use a material screen (like BO cloth) and paint it? Or should I just try and get a solid backing like Doright or Polywall? I don't have a sprayer, so would have to roll it on. My problem is getting a solid screen that is big enough. I know the Parkland is, but the other stuff sadly isn't at 48 inches.

-MP

How big do you want to go?

Gator-board comes in 60"x96" sizes and is recommended by Ken from Goo Systems for use with goo paint.

Originally posted by CMRA
Too much brightness simply washes out the picture. Your blacks suffer greatly. Increase contrast and gamma and avoid the wash out.

And increasing contrast and gamma clips whites in the same way that increasing brightness clips blacks.

All the screenshots are great people but why doesn't anyone ever post screenshots of SMPTE color bars, greyscale patterns, etc? Could be a lot more useful in making judgements than yet another picture of Nicole Kidman's face.

Originally posted by dpadair
All the screenshots are great people but why doesn't anyone ever post screenshots of SMPTE color bars, greyscale patterns, etc? Could be a lot more useful in making judgements than yet another picture of Nicole Kidman's face.

Well, for starters, she looks alot better. Next, we adjust for fleshtones. (When you get the fleshtones right...) Lastly, I don't know if there is a camera made that can capture the entire greyscale. It would just prove the limitations of our equipment. On the other hand, I/we would certainly welcome your screenshots. For everyone's benefit, please post yours.

Truthfully, although I love the movie, for those who haven't seen Moulin Rouge, you have to bear in mind that it has some very creative lighting and cinematography.

It's a great test, but make sure you are familiar with it. If you haven't seen it on your own screen, I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions based on a screen shot.

Just so I don't seem anti-CMRA or anti-ME, for the record, as of right now, Misty Evening is my favorite one step, roll it on screen paint. I congratulate CMRA on a great find!

Eric.

CMRA, how did you pick Misty Evening and how many other grays did you try before that?

Originally posted by christer W.
So if you calibrate correctly with Avia, shouldn't the colors look the same regardless of the screen color?

If a screen is colored in any way it will be impossible to achieve perfect colors. But that may still be ok.

Hi,

Today a have painted my screens with 4 vertical bars, each one of a diferent grey.

Tomorrow, i will test the sreen with my Infocus SP4800 and I'll post the results and the best key of grey in NCS Code.

Vinny

Originally posted by vinnypt
Hi,

Today a have painted my screens with 4 vertical bars, each one of a diferent grey.

Tomorrow, i will test the sreen with my Infocus SP4800 and I'll post the results and the best key of grey in NCS Code.

Vinny

This sounds good. However, after you adjust your projector for one shade of gray won't the other three suffer? Observe this image captured from Vutec's website. Viewed as is, who would want anything but, right? But, seriously, what white screen have you ever seen that looks like the one on the left? If the projector was adjusted for the white, what then would the silver look like? You get the point.

That image is 100% accurate. Compared to matte white, the silverstar has gain like you would not believe.

I thought we were trying to discount the need for such extravagantly priced screens, ALL of which exhibit one specific serious drawback or another. ALL must have the PJs color corrected, some extensively. Some have severly reduced viewing angles. Others are designed to increase contrast, but reduce the light coming off the screen.. And ALL are hyped to the extreame by companies whose only concern is not to bring the minions an affordable solution, but to justify the customer spending a considerable amount just to view thier image.

Cumon......, straight up, for many years, the mantra of all screen MFGs was, "If they'll spend big for a Projector, then they'll spend big for the screen." Here's the truth of it; I've personally SEEN the R&D depts. where two different High End Screen Mfgs experiment on new screen surfaces. Without elaborating, It should be easy enough to ascertain from my previous posts here and elseware on the forum where the idea for using a wall to test paint componds came from.

Monkey see, monkey do..., that's the ticket.

Funny thing is, both incidents took place back in the mid 90's when there were no affordable PJs, and funnier still, I distinctly recall the head chief Guru of R&D of ____ state to me that the cost of the screens was reflected (...bad pun.) more by the overhead of the company itself that the screens Mfg cost, or the cost of distribution. I didn't really give a Rat's anus then because I couldn't justify trying to sell PJ based HTs to my Clients, who were in the "Mid Fi" range, and more than happy to have a 56" Pioneer RPTV. I was at both locals as part of a three state Engineer's Tour, the food was good, the Hotels first rate, and all the joints had air condidtioning.

It was only just under two years ago, more than 6 years later, when I suddenly had the opportunity to place a 20HD in a home in Memphis that I glanced at this Forum's HT Builder forum and read a post about a Grey Hawk screen being the bucoup chioce for the 20HD light cannon. I requested a sample of the screen material, and when I had it in my hand, everything in the past came back and I knew I could mimic that same company's R&D wizards. So I got some Grey paint .....and went on from there.

CRMA, your so right. The Vutec Image is skewed to sell screens. It DOES NOT tell an accurate story. It Hypes thier product. You'll see no mention of the detrimental aspects of ownership of such a screen.

eameres, the Vutec Silverstar may have gain out the kazoo, but to say that it represents a truthfull representation is stretching it intolerably thin. Buy one if you must, or at least go see one in person and report your findings to us all, but don't advocate the belief that if they put it on thier Website, it must be true. (...whose "Enhanced Grey" was that? I wonder?)

I distribute and sell a 'affordable' product that represents an advantage to a vastly wider market than all the Screen Mfgs put together, yet NEVER have I made more than the slightest mention of it on this or any Forum in respect for the Rules Of The Game". To assist others. Period.

Now let's get back to finding ways to have our cake and eat it too.

Originally posted by dpadair
If a screen is colored in any way it will be impossible to achieve perfect colors. But that may still be ok.

Oh wow!

I guess we all might as well give it up!
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :p

Originally posted by MississippiMan
I thought we were trying to discount the need for such extravagantly priced screens, ALL of which exhibit one specific serious drawback or another. ALL must have the PJs color corrected, some extensively.

DIY painted screens have drawbacks and need color correction too (unless you have a white screen I suppose).

I have yet to read a plethora of posts that say this formula or that formula beats a $$$$ commercial screen. A few people have said that but if it were generally true a lot more would.

$$$$ screens exist for the same reason that $10,000 PJs exist. PEOPLE WILL BUY THEM. Even if you told them that they MIGHT be able to do better by mixing paint, building a frame, buying fabric, mounting it and spraying it how many people that can afford $5000 or more for a PJ are going to do that when they can just buy a $1000 screen?

That being said, my HVLP unit arrives on Thursday :)

CMRA, why did you go with the masonry/stucco paint instead of a regular wall paint?

MississippiMan, you are so right about why most of us are on this thread. Everything related to HT was new to me a few months ago. I spent $2300 on a new SONY HS10 after researching on other threads and am very happy with that decision. But I, for one, had no desire to spend as much on a screen as my pj. I am absolutely THRILLED with my picture quality after spending $35 on a True Value ripoff of CMRA's Misty Evening paint. HDTV and movies from my Bravo D1 are simply breathtaking after calibration and tweaking to the light grey drywall surface. Try it - you'll like it. And all you are out is a few bucks and a few hours if you decide later to spend thousands on those other screens.

John in Northern NY

Actonweber,

Well.........,

I was a little intense there. But I know wherein I speak.

dpadair, you said:

:quote: Even if you told them that they MIGHT be able to do better by mixing paint, building a frame, buying fabric, mounting it and spraying it how many people that can afford $5000 or more for a PJ are going to do that when they can just buy a $1000 screen? :unquote

.......and to that I say;
"One whole hellacious lot more of 'em if they only DID know."

You speculate on that. I deal with about 10 to 15 souls a month who each have more cash and a willingness to spend it than common sense should allow. That they hooked up with me, or to me through one of my Dealers may be pure chance, but since I am who I am and proffer what I know to whomever, I can only think of 2 or 3 individuals out of about 60+ in the last year who kept to thier previous mindthink and didn't accept sage advice that saved then big bucks. I mean BIG bucks.

The rich aren't rich because they like to spend, it's because they MAKE money, and don't waste it. Excepting a few who live to spend money, my 26 years at knocking heads with rich & poor alike has show that virtually everybody likes a good deal, and after they do find out about one, they'll settle for nothing less.

At CEDIA this year, the Show Floors were full of every imaginable overpriced toy. Everybody was sure about thier product being able to sustain ridiculously high profits because the Rich have always equated cost with quality and ease of acquistion with luxury before........ But there was an undercurrent there as strong as the Mississippi. (...forgive me.)

Mfg. Reps were aghast at how far prices had fallen. Forward thinking companies were introducing products that flew in the face of the CEDIA ideal, "Make 'Em Pay The Maximum For EVERYTHING" Gosh..., some geegaws were even simple, straightforward, and (gasp) inexpensive. The best of which were naturally....PROJECTORS! (...just you all wait!) A leeeetle teeny tiny 2100 lumen 2 Chip DLP wonder about 3" high, 7" deep, and 10" wide. 2.8 lbs. Price? $1700.00 wholesale. $2600.00 street. Just to start out with, no less.

ALL the most popular products were low priced versions of past high priced products. You could almost see it starting to make sense.

But most telling was a seminar given by that icon of Hype and Undue Expense, Monster Cable. There, in front of God & Everybody, the Rep admitted that across the entire industry, sales of expensive Hi Fi equipment, and hence connectors and wire, were severly depressed because of one major genre. Can you believe it...., Home Theaters In A Box! Yes, it seems that lowly idea has made such great inroads into Monster Products Dealer's customer base that Monster itself was feeling the pinch. And it was leaving a bleeding welt of loss of cash flow. So what was thier response? What was thier solution? Just more of the old mindthink. Sell 'em on Quality! Sell 'em on Service! Justify the expense! Then......., Sell 'em on our New Power Supplies! And for God's sake...Sell some more Wire and Cables!

Really, I kid you not!

My three accompanying Dealers and I fell out......, then went to thier refreshment suite and drank up all thier beer.

So don't ever doubt that Man's basic instinct isn't to conserve. When food was plentiful and the Cave's larder well stocked, Cro Mangon Man didn't waste energy or risk life & limb chasing Mammoths. Wealthy Neandrathals of today have already have seen thier caches raided by Corporate America, and so they are more than willing to spend less to get what they still find acceptable. They need only be retrained to be efficent, and to be presented with a viable alterative.

End point: The Rich shop the internet too for bargins, nickle & dime Contractors to death, and expect everything for almost nothing...if they can get it. Just like us poor folk have always done. :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

Originally posted by dpadair
DIY painted screens have drawbacks and need color correction too (unless you have a white screen I suppose).


I never said that "most" didn't, but fur shur DIY screens don't cost $1000 +

The DIY screen I'm showing seems to be about the best I've ever created.
(...."created sounds a little insidious, doesn't it? Muwah ha ha!)

With no adjustment on any value excepting keystone, it's got the best color balance, contrast qualities, and viewing angle I've ever seen...on any screen. Yeah, I know..., strong words and what many might see as dubious claims, but soon tests will be made and then........we'll see.

Until then......., The Devil in me makes me do it!

Originally posted by MississippiMan


The DIY screen I'm showing seems to be about the best I've ever created.
(...."created sounds a little insidious, doesn't it? Muwah ha ha!)

With no adjustment on any value excepting keystone, it's got the best color balance, contrast qualities, and viewing angle I've ever seen...on any screen. Yeah, I know..., strong words and what many might see as dubious claims, but soon tests will be made and then........we'll see.

Until then......., The Devil in me makes me do it!

This, I believe, is what the forum is all about: The open exchange of ideas and product towards a better more enjoyable home theater. Please don't stop the screenshots. In fact, how about some from the more popular titles such as Monsters, Fifth Element, Toy Story, Gladiator, etc for comparison purposes?

Okey Dokey..,

I've got about 9 hours at the show and all of the above.

Be careful what you ask for. By the time I'm through, my number of post might be 40 or 50 posts higher!

John (Actonweber):

I also have the Bravo D1 and Sony HS10 projector and so far I've been using an off white wall with good results.


Did you just paint your wall with the Gray color or is there more to it? Also, my HS10 is calibrated with the SMART III system. Would that make a difference in what color paint I would use?

Thanks. Jimmy

Wow, where are you guys getting hardboard at sizes greater than 4x8??

And how are you getting it home?? :D

I'm going to have to settle for a sheet of 4x8 and cut it down to 4x5.6 for a maximum sized 76-80" 4:3 screen. :(

Picked up the Killz2 and ME and a roller for $19 at Home Depot a few minutes ago. Will be picking up the hardboard and WALKING IT HOME from DoIt Center a few blocks away. :o

Next thing to figure out is how I'm going to hang the hardboard from my ceiling in a "quick remove" fashion as it'll hang down in front of the 27" TV center. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by dpadair
CMRA, how did you pick Misty Evening and how many other grays did you try before that?

Very ancient Chinese gambling secret...I took a chance. I was also in the process of upgrading my utility room so I had a ready made use for the leftover paint. Hence, the masonary base.

Originally posted by CZ Eddie


Next thing to figure out is how I'm going to hang the hardboard from my ceiling in a "quick remove" fashion as it'll hang down in front of the 27" TV center. :rolleyes:

A few hinges and a little imagination should do the trick. Make sure you anchor into the ceiling beams/studs.

There's many a way to skin the screen 'out-of the-way' cat. I mentioned hinges before but didn't elaborate. One really neat feature by hinging a screen is not having to find a place to put it when you take it down. You simply swing it up out of the way when not in use. We hang our projectors from the ceiling to keep them out of the way, why not the screen too?

Originally posted by MississippiMan
Okey Dokey..,

I've got about 9 hours at the show and all of the above.

Be careful what you ask for. By the time I'm through, my number of post might be 40 or 50 posts higher!

The shootout begins? C'mon team 'silverstar', join in!!!

Finally, my long awaited 'silver' screen should arrive this week. It will go head to head against ME. It's also a commercial 'Torus' design. Can $2.00 worth of paint compete with it?

What screen is this you are waiting on, CMRA?

CMRA,
Got the MR copy, but left for the show before receiving your email. I'm going to the site today to shoot your specific pics.

But while there amongst the crowd, I had the nerve to jump about and take some shots that seemed good ones.

BANG........!

I don't like this guy.

Gawd, they sing awful. Only the NK Eye candy makes it worth watching.

Click....click...click.

Empty, but it was worth it.

Hopefully, you'll approve of one or two of 'em. after I post the other pic you posted, we can compare one on one.

THEN..I might start tweaking the PJ a tad.

Somebody's viewing the above posted pics. How about a comment, pro or con?

Since the PJ is set on factory defalt, I'd entertain suggestions, if any. Gamma adj.? Reds or Greens? Perhaps a shotgun?:D

Gotta go run several leads, hopefully, I'll return with both the duplicate Pics and to some replies / or comments.

Also, coming VERY soon. Pics taken with 50-HD on standard "Old Chrome" Grey w/ flat white mixed, and 20-HD w/same. If possible, I also intend to try both on the SMG w/UPW -F screen being utilized with the pics posted here. Should provide a wide range of PJ attributes as opposed to the screen's display properties. All this will take some manipulation on my part to accomplish it before Wenesday Eve, but I'm a gonna try.

..having fun.

Originally posted by MississippiMan
Also, coming VERY soon. Pics taken with 50-HD on standard "Old Chrome" Grey w/ flat white mixed, and 20-HD w/same. If possible, I also intend to try both on the SMG w/UPW -F screen being utilized with the pics posted here. Should provide a wide range of PJ attributes as opposed to the screen's display properties. All this will take some manipulation on my part to accomplish it before Wenesday Eve, but I'm a gonna try.

..having fun.

You have my vote. Keep 'em coming. And do label which setup please. BTW, your screenshot captures look spot on. What camera are you using?

Just arrived home to find my own Red Head waiting.


I'm using a Toshiba M81 4.2 Megapixel (2400 x 1800 pixels )

All my earlier shots were at the resolution above. This apparently was causing the camera to over compensate when gathering light for such a high res image. Simply lowering the res. to 1200 x 800 made all the difference in the world. I have it set on Auto Focus / Auto Exposure w/no Flash. After each shot, the image in the viewfinder is so accurate, I can safely make the decision to delete any sub par pic.

I'm thinking of reducing the res to 800 x 600 and reshooting ole Helmut Head again. That seems to be the biggest chalange at present.

As for your approval....., well, Awwwrighty then!

Coming from a fellow believer with a paint scheme that is as good (...or better even!) as any I've seen or worked with, that's a plaudit thats both welcome and appreciated!

Honestly, IMO your shots have the edge because of your shapness of image. I've said that before and it still holds true. But for how long? Don't rest on your laurels CMRA because there is more to come, and the output of PJs (..at least 4 different Models) I expect to install (10-11) over just the nest 60 days or so will all, of course, be throughly documented on AVS.

Teaser.

The HT I started today is slated to be a 7.1 system w/ 26 Drivers (transducers) total.

Room Demensions are 13' x 20' 120" SMG "Painted On" WallScreen on 13' wall. It's a Bonus Room above a Garage w/ 4.8" Knee walls


Right & Left Fronts w/ 4 'ducers each. (8 ohms total)
Center w/ 6 'ducers (5.3 ohms total) Located "In Wall" directly behind the screen for perfect vocal imaging.
Right & Left Rears w/4 'ducers each. (8 ohms total)
Right & Left Center Rears w/2 'ducers each. (4 ohms total)

12 Aura Pro Tactiles located "In Floor", 4 to each row of Seating (3 rows)
Back Row is to be situated on top of an 8" Riser platform (13' x 4.5')
Center Row is to be situated on top of an 4" Riser platform (13' x 4.5')
Front Row recieves Tactiles applied directly to Floor Decking.
All Tactiles situated just in front of Chair's leading edge.
Each 4 Tactile array presents a 4 ohm load to a 150 Watt Mono Block Amp (Audio Source)

Amp will be a SONY 5000 ES w/ Video Upconversion (S-VHS - Composite) to Component. 150 w/channel x 7 @ 8 ohms 4 ohm capability on all channels

DVD is to be the newest Samsung w/DVI out, HDCP Compatiblity, SACD

PJ will be a Studio Experience 50-HD 1280 x 780 16:9 1000 lumens, 1700:1 Contrast Ratio
4 Quadrent Keystone (...set it to the far right of screen, get a perfectly square Image.) Motorized Lens Shift.

Front & Rear Sub Woofers will be BIC's 10" 250 watt Down Firing w/Port

Unified Remote to be decided later

Total price installed?

$9879.00

(Risers not included)

Gotta go to 7:30 Pm & 9:30 Pm sales calls, both for HT's woth PJs. Both are leads from my Home Show HT display.

Once again...thanks CMRA


All in a days work. And night's. And day's. etc.

Damn...looks as though I have to repost!

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