Hi all -

So I'm guessing most people will read this and think why should that matter, but since my DTVPal converter relies on the time sent out from the OTA broadcasts, it messes up the timers feature that allow my VCR work with the digital broadcasts.

My plea is for as many members here as possible to contact WFFF/WVNY and ask them to fix it. Right now they are running about 20 minutes behind. I sent one email late last night, but figured if they hear from multiple people, they'd be more likely to correct it.

If your TV can display program information, you would notice this if you displayed the program info any time in the first 20 minutes of any program. If you do that, it will show you the info for the program that just ended instead.

The email for WFFF I used was gm@fox44.net.

Thanks
Andrew

Sent an email, got a response, but it still seems to be a problem.

Yeah, I'm using an older radio shack amplified indoor antenna. Bought it back in 2003 for home. I was never happy with it but I'm glad I didn't throw it out. We're right at the south end of the pond, between So. Shore Dr. and Pond Rd. ABC, CBS, PBS, NBC and Fox all come in on my Zenith DTT901.

Double check all the connections. Did you buy the cable pre-made? Or did you make the connections yourself? Quad shield is 2 layers of foil and braid. Slightly thicker than regular RG6 and slightly more expensive.

With any outdoor antenna, you should be fine without a pre-amp if you're within LOS +- of Mt. Mansfield.

~ryan

I have made all the connections myself. I have cut quite a few since I used to install cable and TV antennas years ago (we used twin lead and tube type amps then). Went over my connections again last night and found the one on my DC injector (for the pre-amp) to be corroded. That pre-amp and injector are only a few months old. I think I might order some RG-11 off the internet. Do you know a good source?

Thanks.

Since I have Dish and Comcast (for internet) I rely on Comcast for my locals in HD. Until today, they have always come over the "raw" cable line and my TV tunes them. All of a sudden there is no trace of any of them! Even after a rescan I come up with nothing.

Has Comcrap once again pulled a fast one by taking these away? Is this a ploy to force subs to rent there cable boxes? What's the deal? Any news is appreciated.

Since I have Dish and Comcast (for internet) I rely on Comcast for my locals in HD. Until today, they have always come over the "raw" cable line and my TV tunes them. All of a sudden there is no trace of any of them! Even after a rescan I come up with nothing.

Has Comcrap once again pulled a fast one by taking these away? Is this a ploy to force subs to rent there cable boxes? What's the deal? Any news is appreciated.

I subscribe to Comcast Basic Cable. Just today all of the local HD stations showed as Not Available. I rescanned to add digital channels and got some of them back. Some such as WCAX (3-1 and 3-2) that showed as Not Available are now working again. Others have moved such as WPTZ channels were on 9-4 and 9-7 and are now on 5-1 and 5-2. And others seem to be gone altogether, such as VPT. I could find any of the VPT HD channels. Sorry I'm not much help.

I subscribe to Comcast Basic Cable. Just today all of the local HD stations showed as Not Available. I rescanned to add digital channels and got some of them back. Some such as WCAX (3-1 and 3-2) that showed as Not Available are now working again. Others have moved such as WPTZ channels were on 9-4 and 9-7 and are now on 5-1 and 5-2. And others seem to be gone altogether, such as VPT. I could find any of the VPT HD channels. Sorry I'm not much help.

You'll find VPT HD at 94.2, Comcast buried it in a sea of SD channels in the high numbers when they shifted things around this week.

You'll also find WNNE-DT at 70.1, although it's seriously open to question whether anyone needs that channel, given the duplication factor with WPTZ.

The thing I find interesting and funny about this is that Comcast's customer service people repeatedly deny that they transmit these HD signals when you inquire about them, they insist that they have nothing to do with it, and they've told me directly that if I'm getting them, it's OTA. I wonder how they'd explain that those "OTA" signals have been moved around?

I just got off the phone with Comcrap customer service and technical support... they are clueless. They don't have a clue that the local digital channels have been either moved or removed and they can't even understand how a QAM tuner receives these. The tech guy quote "if your HD box is receiving them the problem is in your other TV's tuner". Really? I guess all of our tuners broke at exactly the same time.

If anyone knows the real remapping of these or what the plan is, please let us know. Sat service is looking better all the time...

You'll find VPT HD at 94.2, Comcast buried it in a sea of SD channels in the high numbers when they shifted things around this week.

You'll also find WNNE-DT at 70.1, although it's seriously open to question whether anyone needs that channel, given the duplication factor with WPTZ.

The thing I find interesting and funny about this is that Comcast's customer service people repeatedly deny that they transmit these HD signals when you inquire about them, they insist that they have nothing to do with it, and they've told me directly that if I'm getting them, it's OTA. I wonder how they'd explain that those "OTA" signals have been moved around?

If your TV has a ASTC/QAM tuner it will pick up HD locals. FCC laws states that NO cable company can scramble their HD locals to those that subscribe for their cable services. Although the cable company does not advertise this information it is a fact. Google it!

If your TV has a ASTC/QAM tuner it will pick up HD locals. FCC laws states that NO cable company can scramble their HD locals to those that subscribe for their cable services. Although the cable company does not advertise this information it is a fact. Google it!

It's not a question of it they are broadcasting in the clear because of the FCC rule, the issue is that we have been getting all the locals in HD for some time now, but in the last couple of days the frequencies that they previously were transmitted on... changed. Comcast is of not help when you call them. It has become a game of we moved em' try to find them.

Forgot to add... all of the Music Choice channels still are transmitted where they were. When the technical service rep tried to tell me my tuner was not working, he had no answer when I told him I still get all the Music channels...

I don't have an issue with them moving channels because of hardware changes upstream. I do have a problem with them not notifying their customers and more importantly, not telling their own customer service people what they changed.

If your TV has a ASTC/QAM tuner it will pick up HD locals. FCC laws states that NO cable company can scramble their HD locals to those that subscribe for their cable services. Although the cable company does not advertise this information it is a fact. Google it!

No, it is not automatic that a TV with ASTC/QAM tuner will pick up HD locals. Many (most) of us in rural areas like VT/upstate NY need an antenna to get HD locals.

Instead, we are getting the local HDs on a pass-through, unscrambled basis, as you suggested....but Comcast isn't passing through ALL of the locals, Mountain Lake public TV from Plattsburgh isn't passed thru here.

But as I originally pointed out, and pingeye2 also indicated, Comcast's customer service and tech people are clueless about this pass through. They deny it's happening, they insist those signals are OTA....and when you have wholesale moves of the channels as has happened this week, it's abundantly clear these aren't OTA, and it's also clear that Comcast's people are either kept blissfully stupid and unaware, or they are lying to us intentionally.

Suffice to say, all the HD local channels they previously offered are once again available:

WCAX 3.1 and 3.2 (Weather)
WPTZ moved to 5.1, and 5.2 (Weather)
WVNY stays at 22.1
Fox stays at 44.1
WNNE-DT moves to 70.1
VT Public Television moves to 94.2

And ALL of those channels, whether moved or not, require you to re-program your channels in order to get them, the signal encoding has apparently been changed by Comcast in this process.

Last, even though I'm getting 3.1 and 5.1 and they are supposed to be HD, the programming I viewed this afternoon was decidedly SD. It makes me wonder if WCAX and WPTZ simply weren't sending an HD feed today, or whether Comcast is screwing with us and putting an SD feed on the "pass through" HD channels, in order to frustrate us into ordering their stupid HD box/service. WVNY and VT Public TV, OTOH, were both in HD today.

sinothetimes53 has it right. Yes, the channels are all "back", with some being moved from their previous location. I noticed that they have added or updated the station identifiers now as well.

Maybe it's all part of someone in the broadcast room having a good laugh... I can see it now... they know that they have to carry the OTA feeds unscrambled so on some random schedule they change the transmitted frequency and code the display channel the same so everyone has to rescan to get the channels to come back. The guys in the broadcast room are rolling on the floor laughing.

The best one is the commercial they run that basically tells mom and pop that if you have a HD TV and don't get a HD cable box you won't get an HD picture. For those in the know, that's pure Comcrap.

No, it is not automatic that a TV with ASTC/QAM tuner will pick up HD locals. Many (most) of us in rural areas like VT/upstate NY need an antenna to get HD locals.

Instead, we are getting the local HDs on a pass-through, unscrambled basis, as you suggested....but Comcast isn't passing through ALL of the locals, Mountain Lake public TV from Plattsburgh isn't passed thru here.



I'm not sure what you mean by "passthru".
The signals are not being passed through, as the OTA signals are ATSC-modulated.
The cable company receives the OTA signal, either over the air, or via direct connection to the originating station (usually over fibre). It then remodulates the signal using QAM, either directly on the video streeam, or even after recoding the video stream from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4.

The FCC rules don't say the ATSC signal has to be passed through, just that it has to be unencrypted.

I agree though that the cable customer "service" line personnel are as misleading in Vermont as they are up here in Canada. (We don't have any rules forcing cable compnaies to have any unencrypted cable channels. In Ottawa, all I get in ClearQAM are the radio stations, the music channels, two Montreal TV stations in SD (6 & 12), and BET (Black Entertainment Television). (For awhile I was getting A-Channel, CNNHD, HDNET, and A&E HD, but they're gone now)

TVl
Ottawa, ON

I'm not sure what you mean by "passthru".

<<snip>>

The FCC rules don't say the ATSC signal has to be passed through, just that it has to be unencrypted.



Your language is more precise than mine. My use of the term "pass through" simply means we get a signal from Comcast that is unencrypted.

Upon a rescan the "lost" digital channels were found. Also, thanks for the heads up on VPT; I never would have found it at 94.2. Note there appear to be two more PBS feeds at 94.3 and 94.4 that weren't there before.

Another problem I'm hoping someone can answer here: On my Sharp all of the Musicchoice stations show as channel 0; the only way I can tune to any particular one is to scan through all of the channel 0s until I find what I want. I have about 50 or so channel 0! Are these reproduced elsewhere up in the digital numbers? Thanks.

Upon a rescan the "lost" digital channels were found. Also, thanks for the heads up on VPT; I never would have found it at 94.2. Note there appear to be two more PBS feeds at 94.3 and 94.4 that weren't there before.

Another problem I'm hoping someone can answer here: On my Sharp all of the Musicchoice stations show as channel 0; the only way I can tune to any particular one is to scan through all of the channel 0s until I find what I want. I have about 50 or so channel 0! Are these reproduced elsewhere up in the digital numbers? Thanks.

On Panasonic QAM, the music choice channels show up starting at 108-21 and ending at 116-26. However, I wouldn't count on these being available much longer. Note included in the September bill... "Note: Basic Cable Customers receiving Music Choice with a digital box or digital tuner are receiving this in error. On or about 11/11/08, there will no longer be access to these channels without a digital package and a digital box."

Get ready to rescan all the digital channels... more changes coming.

b1gmoose,

Thanks for contacting Fox44, that's better than I made out. I never even got a response.

b1gmoose,

Thanks for contacting Fox44, that's better than I made out. I never even got a response.

The only way I got a response from them was to go directly to the company that owns then. 24 hrs later I had a response.

~ryan

No, it is not automatic that a TV with ASTC/QAM tuner will pick up HD locals. Many (most) of us in rural areas like VT/upstate NY need an antenna to get HD locals.

Instead, we are getting the local HDs on a pass-through, unscrambled basis, as you suggested....but Comcast isn't passing through ALL of the locals, Mountain Lake public TV from Plattsburgh isn't passed thru here.

But as I originally pointed out, and pingeye2 also indicated, Comcast's customer service and tech people are clueless about this pass through. They deny it's happening, they insist those signals are OTA....and when you have wholesale moves of the channels as has happened this week, it's abundantly clear these aren't OTA, and it's also clear that Comcast's people are either kept blissfully stupid and unaware, or they are lying to us intentionally.

Suffice to say, all the HD local channels they previously offered are once again available:

WCAX 3.1 and 3.2 (Weather)
WPTZ moved to 5.1, and 5.2 (Weather)
WVNY stays at 22.1
Fox stays at 44.1
WNNE-DT moves to 70.1
VT Public Television moves to 94.2

And ALL of those channels, whether moved or not, require you to re-program your channels in order to get them, the signal encoding has apparently been changed by Comcast in this process.

Last, even though I'm getting 3.1 and 5.1 and they are supposed to be HD, the programming I viewed this afternoon was decidedly SD. It makes me wonder if WCAX and WPTZ simply weren't sending an HD feed today, or whether Comcast is screwing with us and putting an SD feed on the "pass through" HD channels, in order to frustrate us into ordering their stupid HD box/service. WVNY and VT Public TV, OTOH, were both in HD today.


As I stated, those who subcribe to cable! I never referred to OTA....

Last, even though I'm getting 3.1 and 5.1 and they are supposed to be HD, the programming I viewed this afternoon was decidedly SD. It makes me wonder if WCAX and WPTZ simply weren't sending an HD feed today, or whether Comcast is screwing with us and putting an SD feed on the "pass through" HD channels, in order to frustrate us into ordering their stupid HD box/service. WVNY and VT Public TV, OTOH, were both in HD today.
Digital does not mean HD. Most the of the day time shows are still in SD, while most, but not all, of the prime time shows are HD. To make matters worse, they are still on a learning curve with digital and HD so they switch back to SD for the station ID overlay, or when there is a problem with the digital feed, and they sometimes get the video and audio way out of sync. Hopefully these problems will eventually be resolved after the cutover in February.

As I stated, those who subcribe to cable! I never referred to OTA....

Actually, you did not state that.

Here's what you said:

If your TV has a ASTC/QAM tuner it will pick up HD locals. FCC laws states that NO cable company can scramble their HD locals to those that subscribe for their cable services. Although the cable company does not advertise this information it is a fact. Google it!

The first sentence says unequivocally that if your TV has a ASTC/QAM tuner it will pick up HD locals, period. And that's not necessarily true.

Yes, you went on to discuss cable company practices/regulations, but your first sentence was not accurately stated.

Digital does not mean HD. Most the of the day time shows are still in SD, while most, but not all, of the prime time shows are HD. To make matters worse, they are still on a learning curve with digital and HD so they switch back to SD for the station ID overlay, or when there is a problem with the digital feed, and they sometimes get the video and audio way out of sync. Hopefully these problems will eventually be resolved after the cutover in February.

Excellent points.

The unencrypted signals mostly are HD, but I've found more than a few times that the guy on the board in the control room is often asleep at the wheel, particularly at WPTZ.

Hi all -

So I'm guessing most people will read this and think why should that matter, but since my DTVPal converter relies on the time sent out from the OTA broadcasts, it messes up the timers feature that allow my VCR work with the digital broadcasts.

My plea is for as many members here as possible to contact WFFF/WVNY and ask them to fix it. Right now they are running about 20 minutes behind. I sent one email late last night, but figured if they hear from multiple people, they'd be more likely to correct it.

If your TV can display program information, you would notice this if you displayed the program info any time in the first 20 minutes of any program. If you do that, it will show you the info for the program that just ended instead.

The email for WFFF I used was gm@fox44.net.

Thanks
Andrew


I sent an email this moring requesting that they adjust their time.

If your TV has a ASTC/QAM tuner it will pick up HD locals. FCC laws states that NO cable company can scramble their HD locals to those that subscribe for their cable services. Although the cable company does not advertise this information it is a fact. Google it!

Actually, you did not state that.

Here's what you said:

If your TV has a ASTC/QAM tuner it will pick up HD locals. FCC laws states that NO cable company can scramble their HD locals to those that subscribe for their cable services. Although the cable company does not advertise this information it is a fact. Google it!

The first sentence says unequivocally that if your TV has a ASTC/QAM tuner it will pick up HD locals, period. And that's not necessarily true.

Yes, you went on to discuss cable company practices/regulations, but your first sentence was not accurately stated.

The answer I provided was only on the question of Comcast or any other cable company. Yes, I guess I SHOULD HAVE provided that information in the
1st sentence of my answer..I will endeavor to be more careful in my wording of my answers so you can sleep at night!!!!.Relax it's just TV.

The answer I provided was only on the question of Comcast or any other cable company. Yes, I guess I SHOULD HAVE provided that information in the
1st sentence of my answer..I will endeavor to be more careful in my wording of my answers so you can sleep at night!!!!.Relax it's just TV.

I sleep just fine, my friend.

You are the one who felt especially compelled to complain when I made the simple observation that the mere fact of having an ASTC/QAM tuner would not necessarily deliver HD signals to a viewer.

I sleep just fine, my friend.

You are the one who felt especially compelled to complain when I made the simple observation that the mere fact of having an ASTC/QAM tuner would not necessarily deliver HD signals to a viewer.


Oh, please...complain..simple observation. THE SUBJECT MATTER WAS CABLE..(comcast)..LOOK AT YOUR OWN POST. YOU and only YOU found it necessary to see the wording in the 1st sentence of my reply.....the rest of the message I only added as a sub-content. Look up the word Anal and you will see your photo. Futhermore, you are the one that posted the question that I guess you already knew.....If you need to post here then at the very least provide a topic that you DO NOT know about, instead of just posting..
Review my all post here from the 1st to the last, I do NOT COMPLAIN...only try to provide the tools of what I read ...to try to inform others.....NOT to look for the proper wording to the subject matter,....anyone that is here at this forum has at least the BASIC knowledge of HDTV.... I was here when they 1st starting transmitting off Mt. Mansfield in HD.. you are a 2/2008 member... Go watch your Dish/Directv/Cable/Ota or what ever.......you are a a main reason why others are afraid to post...............EASY TO FIND FAULT...and critize. There is no question that is a DUMB question. SLEEP WELL!

Will there be an entertainment tax for this? :D

I was always appreciative that this form did not degenerate the way the "HD DVD vs Blu-ray" ones did. Let's lift the tone, stay on topic and enjoy one another's expertise and experiences.

I sent an email this moring requesting that they adjust their time.

Hi all,

I got a phone call from Matt at WFFF last night thanking me for the input about the time error. Matt indicated that the time server error has been repaired.

Help! For some reason Dish won't give me my locals because "when they type my zip code into the system it says they are not available." I have a Williston zip code - 05495 and live only 4 miles from Burlington. Are they serious?

I've called 4 times and am told the same thing every time, no explanation other than the computer says I can't have them. Does anyone in Williston have their locals over Dish? Thanks...

Oh, please...complain..simple observation. THE SUBJECT MATTER WAS CABLE..(comcast)..LOOK AT YOUR OWN POST. YOU and only YOU found it necessary to see the wording in the 1st sentence of my reply.....the rest of the message I only added as a sub-content. Look up the word Anal and you will see your photo. Futhermore, you are the one that posted the question that I guess you already knew.....If you need to post here then at the very least provide a topic that you DO NOT know about, instead of just posting..
Review my all post here from the 1st to the last, I do NOT COMPLAIN...only try to provide the tools of what I read ...to try to inform others.....NOT to look for the proper wording to the subject matter,....anyone that is here at this forum has at least the BASIC knowledge of HDTV.... I was here when they 1st starting transmitting off Mt. Mansfield in HD.. you are a 2/2008 member... Go watch your Dish/Directv/Cable/Ota or what ever.......you are a a main reason why others are afraid to post...............EASY TO FIND FAULT...and critize. There is no question that is a DUMB question. SLEEP WELL!

Socrates would be so proud, analytical logic is obviously your strong suit.

Help! For some reason Dish won't give me my locals because "when they type my zip code into the system it says they are not available." I have a Williston zip code - 05495 and live only 4 miles from Burlington. Are they serious?

I've called 4 times and am told the same thing every time, no explanation other than the computer says I can't have them. Does anyone in Williston have their locals over Dish? Thanks...
Hmm... When I put in 05495 I get this..

https://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/customernetqual/processAddress.do?JSESSIONID=JDsC79k1MKdnX6h1Dd2KpSkYQx41njw YXpvQxJNS6vQ3jXWhNkrp!1036949486!NONE

WILLISTON, VT 05495-


Sat Oct 25 17:35:28 MDT 2008



LOCAL NETWORK PACKAGE

Congratulations! This address is eligible for the:
Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY Local Network Package

Please note: Only channels denoted by "HD" are in high definition. Those without this notation are only available in standard definition.

If you do not see HD local channels currently available in your area, you may still be able to receive them via a high definition off-air antenna.

Local channels currently available in this package:
Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY Locals Package - $5.99 per month
Station Local Channel Number Dish Channel Number
BURLINGTON ABC-WVNY 22 8935
BURLINGTON CBS-WCAX 3 8936
BURLINGTON FOX-WFFF 44 8938
BURLINGTON NBC-WPTZ 5 8937
BURLINGTON NBC-WNNE 31 8943
BURLINGTON PBS-WETK 33 8941
Burlington PBS-WLED 49 8944
BURLINGTON PBS-WCFE 57 8942
BURLINGTON ABC - WVNY IN HD 22 5160
BURLINGTON CBS - WCAX IN HD 3 5161
BURLINGTON FOX - WFFF IN HD 44 5163
BURLINGTON NBC - WPTZ IN HD 5 5162

About the only thing I can think of is that you don't have a wing dish pointing at 61.5 where the BTV HD locals are. You need one.

I've had the local Dish channels for over a year. I am thinking that you may indeed not have a dish pointing at 61.5. Dish Net installed mine for free. If you are a new customer, they also have the eastern arc option available.

I've had the local Dish channels for over a year. I am thinking that you may indeed not have a dish pointing at 61.5. Dish Net installed mine for free. If you are a new customer, they also have the eastern arc option available.I don't think it has anything to do with the 61.5 dish. Here in Essex, I had SD locals from DishNetwork for years with just the Dish500. I had to get a 61.5 dish when I added the HD package.

So, it sounds to me like a clerical error in their database. They should escalate to a higher level of support and be emphatic that they do indeed qualify for the BTV locals. From a revenue perspective, it's actually in Dish's best interest to fix it.

I don't think it has anything to do with the 61.5 dish. Here in Essex, I had SD locals from DishNetwork for years with just the Dish500. I had to get a 61.5 dish when I added the HD package.

So, it sounds to me like a clerical error in their database. They should escalate to a higher level of support and be emphatic that they do indeed qualify for the BTV locals. From a revenue perspective, it's actually in Dish's best interest to fix it.
Your right about that VTTOM. I just had the HD(on 61.5) local channels in mind not the SD's. Never watch the SD's anymore.

Hi all,

I got a phone call from Matt at WFFF last night thanking me for the input about the time error. Matt indicated that the time server error has been repaired.

Thanks to all who requested they look into it. I also traded a couple emails with Matt Friday and noticed it was fixed when I checked around 8:00pm. My DVTPal is happier now.

For what it's worth I also pestered him about program info on the 44.2 CW feed via PSIP (specifically lack thereof). He said he'd look into that as well.

I have to say, on the entire digital transition issue, from what I can tell, VPT has really done a great job. They are offering excellent additional programming on their (3!) subchannels and I have very little to complain about with the HD channel. They also provide the best programming info via PSIP (ok at least the farthest out info, i.e. more than ~48 hrs worth) that my DTVPal can take advantage of.

The WCAXtra and WPTZ-WX broadcasts are nice for local forecasts, but other than that, I can't say they offer all that much. I also liked WFFF before, when they squeezed the CW programming into primetime so there was more content that we like to watch. At least now we can get the CW programming (vs anyone still only on analog).

Thanks again to other members to inquired about the time issue.

Andrew

I currently have Turbo HD off of the Eastern Arc.

Yes, I argued that Dish's very own website says that I can get the locals. I was on the phone with them late Saturday afternoon for almost an hour before their final answer was that the Dish website information was an error. They even had me tune to the channel that says "Congratulations, you are watching 61.5." (or something like that)

I spoke with two supervisors and two "technical" folks whose only canned answer, over and over, was "your address is not eligible to receive these locals." I have called seven times now and have gotten nowhere. So frustrating. All they are doing is typing my address into a computer and reading the response.

Anyone here with an 05495 zip with Dish and Burlington locals?

Thanks to all who requested they look into it. I also traded a couple emails with Matt Friday and noticed it was fixed when I checked around 8:00pm. My DVTPal is happier now.

For what it's worth I also pestered him about program info on the 44.2 CW feed via PSIP (specifically lack thereof). He said he'd look into that as well.

I have to say, on the entire digital transition issue, from what I can tell, VPT has really done a great job. They are offering excellent additional programming on their (3!) subchannels and I have very little to complain about with the HD channel. They also provide the best programming info via PSIP (ok at least the farthest out info, i.e. more than ~48 hrs worth) that my DTVPal can take advantage of.

The WCAXtra and WPTZ-WX broadcasts are nice for local forecasts, but other than that, I can't say they offer all that much. I also liked WFFF before, when they squeezed the CW programming into primetime so there was more content that we like to watch. At least now we can get the CW programming (vs anyone still only on analog).

Thanks again to other members to inquired about the time issue.

Andrew

VPT was also the first local channel with HD. I hooked an antenna up to my HDTV about a week after they went online with it and my jaw hit the floor when I checked that strange 33.1 channel and saw wall to wall HD. They've done a great job since with almost no issues relative to the rest of them. Kudos to VPT!!!

VPT was also the first local channel with HD.

Are excluding the Plattsburgh stations from your list of locals? MountainLake PBS has been broadcasting digital, including the PBS HD channel since September 2004. WETK went digital in September 2006. WCAX were up and running 4 weeks later and the others shortly thereafter.

This is from a Montreal perspective. WETK (33) was actually the last of the vPT channels to go digital. Other VPT stations, not receivable in Montreal, were broadcasting digital before 2006, with the first going on-line in 2003.

I guess you are excluding the Plattsburgh stations from your list of locals. MountainLake PBS has been broadcasting digital, including the PBS HD channel since September 2004. VPT went digital in September 2006. WCAX were up and running 4 weeks later and the others shortly thereafter.
Excluded only because I don't receive MtnLake so I didn't know about it. Wow! Two years ahead of VPT.

Excluded only because I don't receive MtnLake so I didn't know about it. Wow! Two years ahead of VPT.

See the 2nd paragraph of my previous post. I was adding it while you were composing yours. WETK was delayed because of its involvement in the Mt, Mansfield project, but was still up and running before any of the commercial stations.

I am in Willsboro NY and have a TIVOHD with SD cable analog channels and HD OTA reception (with a simple 3' indoor antenna). I am having audio issues that I think may be in the OTA broadcast. Right now on WCAX 3.1 'Big Bang' is coming in at 1/4 volume. Commercials are normal volume. LAst week we recorded 'Boston Legal' and it had a similar problem..... but then full sound switched in sometime into the show. Is anyone else having issues like this? Tivo indicated only one audio track available. ?????

I am in Willsboro NY and have a TIVOHD with SD cable analog channels and HD OTA reception (with a simple 3' indoor antenna). I am having audio issues that I think may be in the OTA broadcast. Right now on WCAX 3.1 'Big Bang' is coming in at 1/4 volume. Commercials are normal volume. LAst week we recorded 'Boston Legal' and it had a similar problem..... but then full sound switched in sometime into the show. Is anyone else having issues like this? Tivo indicated only one audio track available. ?????
I am ready to scream when it comes to this problem. Certainly WVNY has had this problem for well over a year now. It often shows up on "Boston Legal." I've repeatdly emailed them and apparently they now consider me a pest and don't even bother to reply. Unfortunately, they also are in bed with WFFF and now the problem appears on both channels.
WPTZ is simply a disgrace with its outmoded technology. Not only do they evidence this loss of center channel problem but their SD to HD switching is dismal--leaving a viewer to wonder if there is actually an engineer on duty. "The Today Show" switching is often so bad that I wonder if they even have a clock in the control room. It is laughable to see Channel 5 miss the network cut-away cues. Indeed, one morning they missed every one--especially the weather cues. I don't expect any changes here as Hearst-Argyle has stated last week that they are dropping many of their plans to update their small market stations blaming the current economic conditions. I emailed them about this and they failed to reply, also. Perhaps the General Mannager is really busy creating his Editorials and manic complaints to notice what is going on under his nose. If he actually watched the channel 5 programming he'd also notice that the current decision to do a station ID (required by law) at the end of a program truly interrupts the most important part--often the most dramatic part--of a show as the HD drops out to an SD inserted "logo" to identify the station. This visual and audio clash is disturbing at best. Of course, it gives the station an extra ten seconds to sell, sell, sell at the regular station break time.
WCAX has traditionally been the technology leader and their current problems with the "loss of center channel" doesn't bode well either. No engineer on duty even noticed that there was a problem throughout last evenings programming. How sad. The fact that it also affected the commercials might bode well for us. Certainly all of the commercial advertizers have the right to demand a "make good" for their lost viewership. Since there is precious little time to alot for this in the station's schedule, it might wake them up to the need to get something done. Hopefully, money talks.
All in all, it is a shame that the FCC does not seemingly have the clout, nor the willingness, to insist that stations maintain a true "broadcast quality" signal. Yet another indication of dereglation gone amuck.
Do us all a favor and email these guys constantly when there is a problem.

Right on, bro! You nailed it!

Just curious where you read this. I would like to read it as well.

"Hearst-Argyle has stated last week that they are dropping many of their plans to update their small market stations blaming the current economic conditions"

"Hearst-Argyle has stated last week that they are dropping many of their plans to update their small market stations blaming the current economic conditions"
I hope this doesn't include our market...:( Before Dish offered the HD locals I use to flip between FNC and WPTZ between 6 and 7. Someone here called looking at WPTZ news as viewing through a dirty fishbowl because of its poor focused picture. I endured. I thought for years WCAX news style was just a snooze. When the HD channels came up I thought great, WPTZ will be so much better. So much for that..:rolleyes: I'm back to WCAX.

Wow, When I lived in Vermont I had comcast HD and I guess the network issues were buffered by the other HD content I had on comcast. Now the only HD I have is OTA. And yes, loosing parts of audio is certainly a problem. 'Loss of center channel' makes sense..... My TIVO hooks up the the TV via HDMI and my audio is simply through the TV (2 speakers). IF this problem continues I will complain. Maybe when analog broadcasting is dropped more attention will be paid to digital broadcast quality. The station identification thing is something I think I can live with though.

I currently have Turbo HD off of the Eastern Arc.

Yes, I argued that Dish's very own website says that I can get the locals. I was on the phone with them late Saturday afternoon for almost an hour before their final answer was that the Dish website information was an error. They even had me tune to the channel that says "Congratulations, you are watching 61.5." (or something like that)

I spoke with two supervisors and two "technical" folks whose only canned answer, over and over, was "your address is not eligible to receive these locals." I have called seven times now and have gotten nowhere. So frustrating. All they are doing is typing my address into a computer and reading the response.

Anyone here with an 05495 zip with Dish and Burlington locals?Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. If you can't sign up for the BTV-area locals, maybe they'll let you sign up for "distant network" affiliates, like NYC. This might help you circumvent a lot of these quality problems we've been talking about.

Since you are a new sub with EA did you go through E* directly or use a local installer? For sure a local would not even think twice that Williston would not qualify. Regardless send an email to ceo@dishnetwork.com and explain your situation and the fact that the CSR's are the problem.

So I've been reading a bit on here about the local stations. I get some of them in Passumpsic. And yes, it does appear the engineers are on happy hour at most times.

I do have a question though. My Wife noticed this last night on WCAX during Entertainment Tonight.

We have a Zenith DTT900 and a SDTV that can do 16:9 mode. So We usually keep it in 16:9 mode and set the DTT900 to 16:9 mode. Most programming is fine like this, and commercials are just postage stamps.

But ET in HD is plastered all over their programming and my Wife didn't think it was accurate. Given the guide claimed it was a 16:9 program, it was a postage stamp size picture. So she had to set the tv to 4:3 mode and the DTT900 to 4:3 mode.

Given HD isn't an issue because we're using a SDTV, but it would be nice if we didn't have to switch from 16:9 to 4:3 mode or hit the zoom button.

Any ideas? Should ET have been broadcast in 16:9 mode and the station engineer was at happy hour?

Also noticed that WCAX news is in 16:9 mode but WPTZ does 4:3 mode for their news. Any ideas when they'll get with the program?

We've only been watching digital TV for a couple weeks now, so we're just getting used to it and I'm just learning some of the quirks about it.

~ryan

So given my recent experience of getting help from the audience here to fix the timer issues on the WFFF/WVNY broadcasts, I'll suggest that more input from more individuals to our local stations would be a good thing.

Does anyone have a list of local (responsive) contacts? I'm willing to try to keep track of the various issues I experience and report them to see if it helps improve performance. I know I've been frustrated on occasion when the main audio drops out on WVNY HD programming and I've had to turn on the closed captioning to continue to watch the show.

For what it's worth, the one contact I have.

WFFF/WVNY - Matt Servis, Director of Engineering mservis@smithmediavt.com

Also, when I first had questions on reception with VPT, I did get a response from them when I emailed the engineering@vpt.org address (Rob, I think, but I didn't save the email.)

Anyway, I'm willing to pitch in and see if it helps.

As an aside, does anyone see benefit in starting a side forum to post issues to ? Maybe with some prodding, we could convince contacts from the local stations to monitor said proposed list (vs getting emails from a bunch of us every week).

Andrew

Does anyone have a list of local (responsive) contacts?

<<snip>>

Also, when I first had questions on reception with VPT, I did get a response from them when I emailed the engineering@vpt.org address (Rob, I think, but I didn't save the email.)

VPT has a new Chief Engineer, Joe Tymecki. He's a local guy, grew up in Essex Junction, I knew him years ago, a really smart and nice guy. He used to be a DJ in the late 80s on WXXX-FM (95 Triple X) using the name "Joe Taylor".

While I can't confirm this address, I'd suspect his VPT address is jtymecki@vpt.org

A few years ago I traded emails with Ted Tuffner (not sure of the spelling), the chief engineer at WCAX. But I just visited the Contact Us section of WCAX's web page and I don't see his name. I wonder if he retired? Then again, there's no generic email address for engineering, either, so maybe he's just hiding. :)

Correction. The name's Ted Teffner.

Oh, hey. While Googling Ted Teffner, I found the following:

http://broadcastengineering.com/be-excellence-awards/wcax_manned_transmission_powers_northeastern_us

What I thought was pretty cool was the fact that they man a desk 24x7x365 atop Mt. Mansfield. I wonder how they get up and down in the winter?

Just curious where you read this. I would like to read it as well.

"Hearst-Argyle has stated last week that they are dropping many of their plans to update their small market stations blaming the current economic conditions"
I have found the info on the following siites:
http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/10/15/daily.18/
and the story was also carried by: contentagenda.com
BroadcastingCable.com

What I thought was pretty cool was the fact that they man a desk 24x7x365 atop Mt. Mansfield. I wonder how they get up and down in the winter?

They use the ski lift to get up and they ski down.:)

I have some maybe good news for D* subscribers. After seeing WCWN in the guide I thought it was ridiculous we may get ION before the CW and MyNetworkTv. So I just got around to emailing Directv asking them to add the CW and My39 and this was their response...

Thank you for writing.

Because of bandwidth constraints, we do not currently carry MyNetwork TV in the Burlington, VT - Plattsburgh, NY area. We're looking at possibilities for making one available to you in the future, but we can't provide MyNetwork TV feed in your area at this time.

I have forwarded your request to DIRECTV management.

Meanwhile, you may be able to get this local channel for free by installing an off-air antenna. An electronics store can recommend an antenna for you.

About CW's availability in your area, I have forwarded your email for special handling. A specialist will respond as soon as an agent is available (likely within 24 hours). For immediate assistance, please call us at 1-800-531-5000.

Thanks again for writing and for giving us the chance to respond to your concerns.

I wasn't really excepting them to add My39, nor do I really care but watching an occasional Springer is a guilty pleasure, but I'm thrilled at her response about the CW. Directv usually denies, denies, denies until something is going to happen. I really hope we can get the CW added. Any other D* subs should e-mail about this too, I'll let you know what the "specialist" says.

Anybody know what was up with WFFF last night? Terminator was broadcast in SD in its entirety. Whatever it was got fixed a few minutes into Prison Break.

I have emailed WPTZ numerous times about their seemingly inept switching and other technical problems. Today, I finally got this response:
Good morning,
I spoke to our Master Control supervisor this morning about the timing issues you spoke of in your e-mail. Sometimes our NBC programming comes out of the NBC Burbank Studio instead of New York. When this happens there is a 4 second delay in the analog / SD timing versus the HD feed timing. We have to switch our programming using the SD timing which makes us look very sloppy on the HD feed. NBC is working on a solution to fix their timing issue.
bh
Bill Harp
Director of Engineering
WPTZ / WNNE
(518)-561-5555 x567
Unfortunately, he did not address my other concern so I replied:
I read an article last week that said that smaller market Hearst stations will not be getting the HD build because of the economic downturn. Since it was a quote from a Hearst executive, I assume that we will continue to see you drop out of HD every time there is a station ID. This itself is a real problem from my point of view because you often do this at approximately 59 minutes after the hour. This jars viewers as the volume is increased and dialogue is lost. Of course, this is the usually the point in a drama series where the writer is summing up the plot. Indeed, it is often the most important part of the drama!
I can appreciate how difficult this transition is for your staff but I think that it's time for Hearst to step up to the proverbial plate and return WPTZ to its former professional production standards.

It is a shame that we are now five years into the transition, and almost all of the local stations are doing more poorly technically then they were when they first signed on.

It is a shame that we are now five years into the transition, and almost all of the local stations are doing more poorly technically then they were when they first signed on.

Thanks for taking the time to take WPTZ to task for this stuff. I've tried to do the same thing, and they've never even had the courtesy to respond.

Once upon a time the worst station in the market was the old TV 22, which during the 80s under the ownership of one Philip Lombardo of Bronxville NY essentially sold off the existing 2nd rate equipment upon acquiring the place, and replaced it with 3rd rate equipment and stashed the cash from the equipment sales. Anyone who worked there (and yes, I was one) knows TV 22was the proverbial broadcast "toilet".

WPTZ appears to be striving to reach those low standards these days, sad to say.

I have emailed WPTZ numerous times about ...
Bill Harp
Director of Engineering
WPTZ / WNNE
(518)-561-5555 x567...

Care to pass on that email address? I used the feeback form on their website and rec'd no response. I wanted to bug them about the fact their PSIP time is an hour ahead. I think they messed up when we left DST but I didn't catch it until last week.

The address is: wharp@hearst.com.
He still has not responded to any of my important questions. WPTZ actually did get better about connecting to the network feeds for a few days but they have fallen back into their sloppy, "who cares about the HD crowd", ways.

So I've been trying to work it out with WVNY about their digital reception at my house.

They keep telling me it is my antenna that is the problem. Not them. However, I have no problems receiving WPTZ, WFFF, WETK, and WCAX from the same location.

I have gone through my house and found any and every (hopefully) source of interference and taken care of it with filters where needed.

Even moving a TV and the CECB out side to the antenna such that the pre-amp run was less than 30' from the top of the mast to the bottom, I still could not get anything. I've had 1 day where I could decode the PSIP info, but nothing else.

Is anybody else having serious issues with receiving WVNY-DT on UHF 13 when they receive all other signals from Mt. Mansfield just fine?

Please email mservis@smithmediavt.com as he has been my contact there, but I have not heard back from him in about 10 days, not even a hey we're still looking into it. I've also emailed scarpenter@abc22.com about it.

Here is what I'm using for reception:

2x 91XG's at 31'
1x Funke PSP.1922 at 25'
All connections are done with RG11 coax.
Pico Macom UVSJ and a Pico Macom VHF-Hi/Lo splitter/joiner
CM7777 pre-amp and RG11 to the house, 95' +-


Installed last night but have not had a chance to see if it's working as I got called out to work was my new Research Communications Pre-amp and 7/8" hardline. Just as I finished putting the antenna mast back up, I had to go to work. *argh*

So who else has serious problems less than 3 months away from the conversion?

I will not have a digital ABC in my neck of the woods after Feb. Very disappointing.

~ryan

Is anybody else having serious issues with receiving WVNY-DT on UHF 13 when they receive all other signals from Mt. Mansfield just fine?


Isn't WVNY VHF?

Channel 13 is VHF so you need a VHF capable antenna. If you've got room, I would go with a high-VHF antenna and combine to what you have now. Or replace one of you 91XGs with something like a Winegard HD7694P or another one of their 769 series (designed to pick up channels 7-69).

Channel 13 is VHF so you need a VHF capable antenna. If you've got room, I would go with a high-VHF antenna and combine to what you have now.

He knows that. That's why he's using a http://www.funke.nl/subcategorie.php?type=sub&id=49 Funke 1922 VHF high band antenna. 14dB on VHF-High is pretty good.

But what we don't know is where exactly he is located.
b1gmoose, where are you?

He knows that. That's why he's using a http://www.funke.nl/subcategorie.php?type=sub&id=49 Funke 1922 VHF high band antenna. 14dB on VHF-High is pretty good.

But what we don't know is where exactly he is located.
b1gmoose, where are you?
I missed that as I wasn't aware of that brand. Maybe he could try moving it up a couple of feet. He has a pretty serious set up. I wonder if WVNY is operating at full strength yet? They are difficult to get and I hope they realize that and address it.

I wonder if WVNY is operating at full strength yet?

AFAIK, yes. But bear in mind that WVNY's 10kW is not in every direction. Towards the north, it's throwing a kW or so. And it appears that the peak of Mt Mansfield creates a shadow to the north, at least according to TVFool. (The towers are on the 'nose', not the peak of Mt Mansfield)

That's why I asked where he was.

Hi Guys. Yes, I've got a VHF-Hi antenna. I did have the Winegard YA1713, it just couldn't do it.

I bought the Funke PSP.1922 from midwest Dxer. I bought 2 of them just in case, but also to have one as a spare.

I only have 2 acres to deal with. My mast is 30' so that puts the 91XG's at 31'. Have to have at least 3.5' of distance between the VHF and UHF antennas.

I have a VHF Hi/Lo splitter/joiner installed to keep the FM out and VHF-Lo stuff from getting into the pre-amp. It's got a terminator on the unused port.

I tested it tonight with the new 7/8" hardline and RC 9254 VHF/UHF pre-amp. I was able to watch WVNY for about 30 minutes tonight and then nothing :-/.

WFFF and WVNY will not change power output after the transition.

"<mservis@smithmediavt.com>
> wrote:
>> WFFF and WVNY post transition power levels will not change.
>>
>> We are at our current limits for DTV power.
>>
>> CW is the only digital subchannel we plan to offer.
>>
>> Please let us know if we can be of further help in assisting with
your
>> reception.
>>
>>
>>
>> Matt Servis
>>
>>
>>
>> Director of Engineering
>>
>> WFFF"
They also have no plans for a sub-channel on WVNY 22-2 at all.

I'm located in Passumpsic, a couple miles south of St. Johnsbury.

Here are my TV fool charts.

As you notice, according to TVFool, WVNY should be easier to receive compared to WFFF. But it's the other way around for me. Kinda odd, maybe the FCC database has some bad info/record and TVFool made the calculations based on that.

I do have a severe multipath problem. As in, my antennas point to 155 degrees instead of 300 to get stuff off of Mt. Mansfield.

Butt, I can still receive it. I've moved my antennas all over my 1/4 acre yard. I can't get too close to the road because of powerlines and I can't get too close to the house because of a metal roof and aluminum siding.

WVTB is a strong station on both analog UHF 20 and digital UFH 18. I have a tin-lee notch filter for UHF 18. I thought that WVTB might be overloading the CM7777 pre-amp, but it didn't make too much of an improvement. However, since I get PBS off of Mt. Mansfield and from NH, I didn't need another 4 channels of VT PBS and it allows me to pull in Ch 18 from other directions.

It passes all signals from 5-484 Mhz. and has 30 db attenuation on UHF 18 and passes from 510-800 Mhz. The attenuation on 20 and 21 when looking at the graph in the PDF is maybe 10-15 db, not much when compared to the antenna/preamp gain.

When my antennas are pointed at 41 degrees with the notch filter, I can still receive WVTB. Very strong signal and very strong antenna setup.

As far as analog reception, if you look at the chart, WMTW on VHF Ch 8 at -46.5 db NM and -126.8 pwr db, I am able to receive. It's a little snowy, but by no means unwatchable. As far as digital reception, I'm able to receive as low as WVTA-DT on UHF 24 at -24.4 db NM and -115.3 pwr db.

~ryan

Oh, hey. While Googling Ted Teffner, I found the following:

http://broadcastengineering.com/be-excellence-awards/wcax_manned_transmission_powers_northeastern_us

What I thought was pretty cool was the fact that they man a desk 24x7x365 atop Mt. Mansfield. I wonder how they get up and down in the winter?

The use snowmobiles in the winter. I have the phonenumber for the engineer on duty 24x7 at the Mountain. I won't post it publicly as I got it from my caller ID.

And they are one, if not the last manned mountain top station in the world.

~ryan

Hi Guys. Yes, I've got a VHF-Hi antenna. I did have the Winegard YA1713, it just couldn't do it.

I bought the Funke PSP.1922 from midwest Dxer. I bought 2 of them just in case, but also to have one as a spare.

I only have 2 acres to deal with. My mast is 30' so that puts the 91XG's at 31'. Have to have at least 3.5' of distance between the VHF and UHF antennas.

I have a VHF Hi/Lo splitter/joiner installed to keep the FM out and VHF-Lo stuff from getting into the pre-amp. It's got a terminator on the unused port.

I tested it tonight with the new 7/8" hardline and RC 9254 VHF/UHF pre-amp. I was able to watch WVNY for about 30 minutes tonight and then nothing :-/.

WFFF and WVNY will not change power output after the transition.

"<mservis@smithmediavt.com>
> wrote:
>> WFFF and WVNY post transition power levels will not change.
>>
>> We are at our current limits for DTV power.
>>
>> CW is the only digital subchannel we plan to offer.
>>
>> Please let us know if we can be of further help in assisting with
your
>> reception.
>>
>>
>>
>> Matt Servis
>>
>>
>>
>> Director of Engineering
>>
>> WFFF"
They also have no plans for a sub-channel on WVNY 22-2 at all.

I'm located in Passumpsic, a couple miles south of St. Johnsbury.

Here are my TV fool charts.

As you notice, according to TVFool, WVNY should be easier to receive compared to WFFF. But it's the other way around for me. Kinda odd, maybe the FCC database has some bad info/record and TVFool made the calculations based on that.

I do have a severe multipath problem. As in, my antennas point to 155 degrees instead of 300 to get stuff off of Mt. Mansfield.

Butt, I can still receive it. I've moved my antennas all over my 1/4 acre yard. I can't get too close to the road because of powerlines and I can't get too close to the house because of a metal roof and aluminum siding.

WVTB is a strong station on both analog UHF 20 and digital UFH 18. I have a tin-lee notch filter for UHF 18. I thought that WVTB might be overloading the CM7777 pre-amp, but it didn't make too much of an improvement. However, since I get PBS off of Mt. Mansfield and from NH, I didn't need another 4 channels of VT PBS and it allows me to pull in Ch 18 from other directions.

It passes all signals from 5-484 Mhz. and has 30 db attenuation on UHF 18 and passes from 510-800 Mhz. The attenuation on 20 and 21 when looking at the graph in the PDF is maybe 10-15 db, not much when compared to the antenna/preamp gain.

When my antennas are pointed at 41 degrees with the notch filter, I can still receive WVTB. Very strong signal and very strong antenna setup.

As far as analog reception, if you look at the chart, WMTW on VHF Ch 8 at -46.5 db NM and -126.8 pwr db, I am able to receive. It's a little snowy, but by no means unwatchable. As far as digital reception, I'm able to receive as low as WVTA-DT on UHF 24 at -24.4 db NM and -115.3 pwr db.

~ryan

My first guess was that the Longley-Rice model that the FCC and TVFool uses over-estimates the ability of VHF-High to refract over mountain ridges into valleys, but then you say WMTW-TV analog 8 comes in watchable, so I'm stumped. (If you look at the two station profiles for 13 and 43, you can see how much better 13 is predicted to refract into each valley.)

Did you use exact coordinates for the TVFool data (as opposed to an address)?

By the way, after channel 18 shuts off, you may want to remove your ch.18 notch filter, so that you could have a chance (on a good tropo day) at CBMT-DT 20 and CBFT-DT 19 once they move to Mount Royal next summer.

TVl
Ottawa

My first guess was that the Longley-Rice model that the FCC and TVFool uses over-estimates the ability of VHF-High to refract over mountain ridges into valleys, but then you say WMTW-TV analog 8 comes in watchable, so I'm stumped. (If you look at the two station profiles for 13 and 43, you can see how much better 13 is predicted to refract into each valley.)

Did you use exact coordinates for the TVFool data (as opposed to an address)?

By the way, after channel 18 shuts off, you may want to remove your ch.18 notch filter, so that you could have a chance (on a good tropo day) at CBMT-DT 20 and CBFT-DT 19 once they move to Mount Royal next summer.

TVl
Ottawa

I used the exact cooridnates for TVFool and the street address. Differences are 0.1db in all areas.

UHF 20 will be the one shut off in Feb, UHF 18 will still be there, so I'll keep the filter in place.

WMTW is watchable, however, it's far from perfect. A fair ammount of snow, but far less snow than I had growing up on WCAX on Ch 3 20 years ago.

I'm beginning to think in my experience, VHF-Lo goes through everything perfectly fine on it's own. And the dogma is that UHF is affected by terrain and leaves significantly. I would almost say the upper portion of VHF-Hi acts more like UHF than it does VHF.

With a pair of modified rabbit ears for a 1/2 wavelength on VHF Ch 3 at 40', I can watch WCAX on Ch 3 almost perfectly clear. Compared to what I need for a high gain antenna to receive anything off of Mt. Mansfield for digital. Even the analog stations aren't perfect, but they are more wathable than WMTW.

Analog UHF 20 when my antennas are pointed at is is probably the best analog picture I've seen in my life. It's almost as clear as digital. I'll have to take a comparison picture. I'm jelous of the people who've lived close enough to transmitters all their lives to have a clear signal like that.

It'll be nice to get everything tuned for some Canadian channels. My wife and kids love it. All I watch is hockey, but they watch the rest of the stuff on 7 and 9. I can only watch 11 as it's in english.

I'm still trying to figure out what the final channel assignments will be for Montreal/Sherbrooke. That way I can get my antenna spacing optimized for the stations I want.

After 2009 I'll be interested in:

UHF 14, 22, 32, and 43 for the US markets. I have no idea what they will be after 2011 in Canada. :-/. For VHF I do have 2 of the Funke PSP.1922's. I'm only using 1, I may make a horizontal stack after I beef up my tower a bit. Right now the only digital station on VHF I'm worried about is Ch 13.

CHLT is on 7, and may be assigned 60 for digital.
CKSH is on 9 and is assigned 55 for digital.
CKMI is on 11 and is assigned 41 for digital.

I don't want 300 antennas on my house. :-/

Just found a current listing. Looks like a ton of stations are in AL mode, and very few are operation in Sherbrooke :-/.

http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/QC.html


~ryan

It'll be nice to get everything tuned for some Canadian channels. My wife and kids love it. All I watch is hockey, but they watch the rest of the stuff on 7 and 9. I can only watch 11 as it's in english.

I'm still trying to figure out what the final channel assignments will be for Montreal/Sherbrooke. That way I can get my antenna spacing optimized for the stations I want.

After 2009 I'll be interested in:

UHF 14, 22, 32, and 43 for the US markets. I have no idea what they will be after 2011 in Canada. :-/. For VHF I do have 2 of the Funke PSP.1922's. I'm only using 1, I may make a horizontal stack after I beef up my tower a bit. Right now the only digital station on VHF I'm worried about is Ch 13.

CHLT is on 7, and may be assigned 60 for digital.
CKSH is on 9 and is assigned 55 for digital.
CKMI is on 11 and is assigned 41 for digital.

I don't want 300 antennas on my house. :-/

Just found a current listing. Looks like a ton of stations are in AL mode, and very few are operation in Sherbrooke

~ryan
The AL allocations you see in stampeder's list are based on Industry Canada's digital transtiion plan. Industry Canada's post-transition plan has yet to be published, but the priority for allocations is apparently 7-13 then 14-51. VHF-Lo is not planned to be used, except for a few isolated rural 5s and 6s. So my educated guess for Sherbrooke is that 7,9,11,24, and 30 will stay where they are. The SRC has bought 9 from TQS, and already has plans to upgrade it to digital in 2011. The only question will be the CBC repeater in Sherbrooke (it's not on Mount Orford, so I don't know if you can get it). Will it get upgraded to digital, or shut down?

Another hope would be that the vermont broadcasters would set up single frequency networks ( I think the FCC calls them DTS) to cover the valleys in vermont shaded from Mount Mansfield. Perhaps they could come to a deal with VPT to lease space on their towers? DTS relays within a station's nominal coverage area do not require a competitive license application, just a modification to the existing license for the main station.

For the past few days, the digital signal we receive from WPTZ has dropped from a strength of around 90 down to the 40s and actually bounces between 35 and 55. WVNY, typically our weakest is 80 and the rest are in the high 80s. Is anyone else experiencing problems with WPTZ?

I haven't seen this on here yet but apparently plans have been in place for a couple months now for New Hampshire Public Television to move WLED from Littleton to Mt. Washington. Hopefully this is approved by the FCC and it won't be long until we see TV again from Mt. Washington.

I haven't seen this on here yet but apparently plans have been in place for a couple months now for New Hampshire Public Television to move WLED from Littleton to Mt. Washington. Hopefully this is approved by the FCC and it won't be long until we see TV again from Mt. Washington.

That would be cool. Maybe then some ABC affiliate like WMUR or WVNY can broadcast from up there and cover most of northern New England and a large portion of Quebec.

~ryan

When WMTW used to broadcast from Mt Washington (before the fire, I'm guessing about 10 years ago), their signal was the clearest, most reliable signal in northern New England - many could get it with only rabbit ears. I'm guessing any commercial station that would relocate there would have a big edge on the competition.

So I'm still having problems receiving WVNY. I've been able to watch it for 30 minutes. Granted, I have a unique situation, but with the equipment that I have, I shouldn't have any problems receiving WVNY.

I contacted the FCC DTV help number and talked with them. They advised me to file a complaint because I do fall within their service area for the digital signal.

Should I go this route? Who else has considered filing a complaint?

~ryan

For the past few days, the digital signal we receive from WPTZ has dropped from a strength of around 90 down to the 40s and actually bounces between 35 and 55. WVNY, typically our weakest is 80 and the rest are in the high 80s. Is anyone else experiencing problems with WPTZ?

WPTZ seems fine for me. Back in Oct they had a week or 2 where there was limited signal as they were operating on backup equipment because an amplifier blew.


I'll look and see if I can find the contact info for a WPTZ station engineer.

~ryan

When WMTW used to broadcast from Mt Washington (before the fire, I'm guessing about 10 years ago), their signal was the clearest, most reliable signal in northern New England - many could get it with only rabbit ears. I'm guessing any commercial station that would relocate there would have a big edge on the competition.

Have you ever driven US-2 or US-302 or any side roads in Vermont and NH. All you see are UHF bow-tie antennas and Ch-8 Yagi antennas. All over the place.

The biggest area I have seen them is on Rt 2 in Lunenburg, VT and US-5 from Fairle to Bradford. Tons of Ch 8 and CH 3 yagi's and a 4-bay bow-tie above it.

That would be sweet. I'll contact WMTW and see if they have any future plans for transmitting digital from Mt. Washington. I bet the signal would reach Montreal and would make the world over there happy because 99.9% of the viewers can't receive WVNY.

Maybe others can contact WMTW and see about plans for Mt. Washington digital TV. If they got enough requests or interest, they might consider it. Then we can all abandon ship on WVNY.

~ryan

That would be sweet. I'll contact WMTW and see if they have any future plans for transmitting digital from Mt. Washington. I bet the signal would reach Montreal and would make the world over there happy because 99.9% of the viewers can't receive WVNY.
~ryan

Montreal is located half-way between channel 8 transmitters in Lancaster, ON, and Trois Rivieres, QC. When WMTW was on Montreal cable, the cable companies had their channel 8 head-ends on tall buildings in "sweet spots"on the side of the Mount Royal. Getting any kind of WMTW-DT channel 8 reception in a normal residence would be much more difficult than getting WVNY on 13.

HearstArgyle probably dropped a bundle on the Mt Baldwin tower so that they could better cover their core market of Portland. Getting them back into the Burlington-Plattsburg DMA is going to be a tough sell. Too bad, it would have been much better for the Northern New England coverage.

Now a Fox station from the top of Mount Washington, that might fly...

How about some experimental VHF low stations -- say 5 and 6 from the top of the rock pile iwth 10 kW each.

With Respect to WVNY, they're probably better off than had they gone with the origial allocation on channel 16, since they would still have to protect ch 16 in Trois Rivieres, without the benefit of increased valley coverage that a VHF channel offers. Not as good as had they reverted to 22, but I'm not sure what the thinking or the economics was there. Quality wise, we're better off with WCAX on 22 with a wide coverage, than WVNY with spotty coverage.

Just rambling... we don't get any American commercial stations OTA reliably up here in Ottawa....

This really is an era which questions if the local stations have simply fired half of their engineering staffs. Last night WPTZ carried the evening newscast again without the center channel audio. Wouldn't you think that somebody would be within hearing distance and flip the switch to SD which fixes the problem.
Today, I taped the Obama speech at noon on WVNY because ABC has done so well in the ratings and I wanted to see why. Instead of getting the "promise of a better future", I got a the ABC New York feed with bars and tone and test audio. Apparently the switching at Channel 22 and 44 has been religated to the janitor--and even he now probably has responsibility to switch them at the same time. I see nothing good that's come of the FCC's deregulation of TV and radio stations ownership rules. I am actually so old that I can remember a time when there was actually pride in the delivered signal.
Perhaps some of you that are desperately trying to get a signal from the Burlington locals aren't missing that much after all.

Tonight, all of the signals from Mt. Mansfield are fluctuating wildly at my location. I think it might be caused by the approaching storm. Anyone else experiencing this?
:confused:

This really is an era which questions if the local stations have simply fired half of their engineering staffs. Last night WPTZ carried the evening newscast again without the center channel audio. Wouldn't you think that somebody would be within hearing distance and flip the switch to SD which fixes the problem.
Today, I taped the Obama speech at noon on WVNY because ABC has done so well in the ratings and I wanted to see why. Instead of getting the "promise of a better future", I got a the ABC New York feed with bars and tone and test audio. Apparently the switching at Channel 22 and 44 has been religated to the janitor--and even he now probably has responsibility to switch them at the same time. I see nothing good that's come of the FCC's deregulation of TV and radio stations ownership rules. I am actually so old that I can remember a time when there was actually pride in the delivered signal.
Perhaps some of you that are desperately trying to get a signal from the Burlington locals aren't missing that much after all.


Some very good points. OTA is not a money maker. That's why Disney moved Monday Night Football from ABC to ESPN. It's all about subscribers.

I'm trying desperately to get ABC to make the wifey happy. Gotta have desperate housewives and I like watching lost.

:-( In the next year or 2 I'll move to a mountain top that is more friendly for OTA :-) Then I'll have some serious DX'ing that I can pull in with the equipment I have :-).

~ryan

So I've pretty much given up on WVNY ABC-22 on VHF-13.

I can receive it about 80% of the time during the day and about 50% of the time at night. When I have a lock, it doesn't drop out much.

I've tried it with my Zenith and it gets the signal better than the Samsung DTB-H260F. But the PQ is so drastic in difference, even my wife prefers the Samsung. And we have just a SDTV with component TV inputs.

As a re-cap, the equipment I have:

2x 91XG's UHF Yagi at 36" space. A CM Jointenna for them.
1x Funke PSP.1922 VHF-Hi yagi
Research Communications UHF/VHF Preamp (exchange rate is good right now, $186 shipped for everything).
PicoMacom UVSJ from antennas to pre-amp.
CM 9521A rotator
95' +- 7/8" (875 series) T10 semiflex hardline w/ F-connectors.
30' of RG11 from the basement to the TV.
Zenith DTT900/901 CECB's
Samsung DTB-H260F
Sharp SDTV 27" made in 2004.

Overall, we're pretty happy with the selection we get. Next project will be pulling in some Canadian digitals. I'll have to look and see which ones in Sherbrooke are online already.

Total channels received including Subs: 24. Without multiple PBS's we get 12. Rather amazing I can pickup almost all of VT's PBS translators and a couple of NH's translators.

We have about 30 analog stations we can receive, so we'll be watching a LP ABC repeater from NH when we can't get a digital lock on WVNY after the conversion.

I'm about 95% happy with digital TV in VT. My 5% of unhappiness results from my physical location and WVNY's poor customer service and signal quality.

I can't wait until after Feb. That'll clear up some CCI in the areas and maybe the preamp will be able to pickup digital stations better when there is less power going to it from analog stations that are being shut off.

~ryan

To everyone in the Montreal region who wants to test channel 13 (WVNY) without the possible interference of channel 12 on Mt-Royal:

there will be a shut down of the cfcf 12 transmitter overnight Sunday, November 30, 2:30AM to 6 PM.

We will be able to see if channel 12 is really interfering with ABC 13 like they(ABC) are always saying when we call or email to complaint.

Please post your results here monday.

Next project will be pulling in some Canadian digitals. I'll have to look and see which ones in Sherbrooke are online already.


Nothing right now digital in Sherbrooke, and not likely anytime before 2011.
By the end of next year you *may* be able to get CBC from Montreal.
Do you ever get 17 or 35 analog from Montreal? If so, you may have an occasional chance at 19 and 20 when CBC English and French move to Mount Royal next year.

Nothing right now digital in Sherbrooke, and not likely anytime before 2011.
By the end of next year you *may* be able to get CBC from Montreal.
Do you ever get 17 or 35 analog from Montreal? If so, you may have an occasional chance at 19 and 20 when CBC English and French move to Mount Royal next year.

I'll give it a try tonight. I'll have to get the azimuth from Passumpsic, VT to where the towers are located in Montreal, as it doesn't show up on my tvfool report.

It's been a busy November for me and a bad Deer season, so we'll see if my luck changes get the analog stations and the deer and I'll have a very happy holiday season :-)

~ryan

To everyone in the Montreal region who wants to test channel 13 (WVNY) without the possible interference of channel 12 on Mt-Royal:

there will be a shut down of the cfcf 12 transmitter overnight Sunday, November 30, 2:30AM to 6 PM.

We will be able to see if channel 12 is really interfering with ABC 13 like they(ABC) are always saying when we call or email to complaint.

Please post your results here monday.

This will be interesting. Maybe we should set up a poll for those that received WVNY during the Ch 12 shutdown.

How likely do you think it will not come in and WVNY will get reports about it, that they will do anything about it? If they don't, what actions can we take as consumers? I'm not in the Montreal region, but if you can't receive it when Ch 12 is off-line, then it's WVNY. Can the FCC force them to fix any of their problems if enough people complain?

~ryan

I'll give it a try tonight. I'll have to get the azimuth from Passumpsic, VT

I did an analog Signal locator from whatever TVFool uses for generic Passumpsic, VT, and it shows channel 6 at 331 magnetic. However, the NM is -37.8 dB for channel 6 and -31.7 dB for channel 2. None of the other Montreal channels show up, so I wouldn't expect much. I think you'll have to settle for Sherbrooke analog (300degrees Magenetic) in the short term.

This will be interesting. Maybe we should set up a poll for those that received WVNY during the Ch 12 shutdown.

How likely do you think it will not come in and WVNY will get reports about it, that they will do anything about it? If they don't, what actions can we take as consumers? I'm not in the Montreal region, but if you can't receive it when Ch 12 is off-line, then it's WVNY. Can the FCC force them to fix any of their problems if enough people complain?

~ryan

As out-of-market Canadians, we would have no standing to complain about lack of WVNY reception. However, you (b1gmoose), as someone within the Burlington-Plattsburg market who previously received channel 22 analog and now no longer gets a reliable signal on channel 13 digital should be able to complain to the FCC.

Basically, the government made a pile of money auctioning off the spectrum above channel 51, and deprived you of an existing service in the process.

I did an analog Signal locator from whatever TVFool uses for generic Passumpsic, VT, and it shows channel 6 at 331 magnetic. However, the NM is -37.8 dB for channel 6 and -31.7 dB for channel 2. None of the other Montreal channels show up, so I wouldn't expect much. I think you'll have to settle for Sherbrooke analog (300degrees Magenetic) in the short term.

I just found a TVFool chart that Andy did up for me a month or so ago when trying to locate a signal I was receiving from WMTW on VHF 8.

It's -46.5 on the NM. So I could possibly receive something from montreal in the 330 +- degree range.

CBFT looks like it is 110 miles away and -40.5 db NM, but I don't have a Ch 2 antenna. I can take a set of rabbit ears and a HLSJ and put it out at the antenna.

CBMT on 6, I'm not sure if I've received that on the PSP.1922 or if I was hearing FM audio. I didn't have a picture, but I did have sound.

We'll see what we get. It's gonna be bad for weather for the next couple of days, but I'll keep my eyes open on a clear night to see what happens.

~ryan


Edit:

CBFT on VHF 2 is 110.078 miles at 316.16 degrees true north. My declination is -15.6 degrees, so that'd put it at 332 degrees+- magnetic N.

I do have my PSP.1922 angled up to 7.5 degrees, so I might be able to get something from Mt. Royal. I'll take a look.

Unless I'm wrong, I am receiving Global on Ch 11. The best signal comes in at 006 degrees N., but I don't see any global stations in that direction on Ch 11 in Sherbrooke. Any ideas? I don't think it's CBVT at 171.5 miles, but it could be. And that's supposedly at 24 degrees, but the signal drops out, but then again, I'm pointed more towards powerlines at 24 degrees.

~ryan


1 more edit. It looks like CBMT on VHF 6 will be broadcasting on UHF 20. Right now that air-space is taken (hogged up) by WVTB on UHF 20. Once that's offline in Feb, I might have a chance at getting CBMT in digital.

~ryan

Very interesting idea. I don't know how to set one up though :o



This will be interesting. Maybe we should set up a poll for those that received WVNY during the Ch 12 shutdown.
~ryan

BTW, I also receive Global in english on Ch 11. Not sure where it's coming from.

Mount Orford, same as French stations 7, 9, 24, and 30.
It's nominally a relay of CKMI Quebec City, but the studios are actually in Montreal. (We have fictional "City-of-license" rimshot deals in Canada, too)

Mount Orford, same as French stations 7, 9, 24, and 30.
It's nominally a relay of CKMI Quebec City, but the studios are actually in Montreal. (We have fictional "City-of-license" rimshot deals in Canada, too)

So TV fool must be wrong, it's calling CKMI Ch 41. I'll have to send him an email. I wondered why I couldn't get 41 when I got everything else from Mt. Orford.

~ryan

So TV fool must be wrong, it's calling CKMI Ch 41. I'll have to send him an email. I wondered why I couldn't get 41 when I got everything else from Mt. Orford.


Not really. Channel 41 is the digital allocation. Channel 11 is the analog station currently operating. It probably doesn't appear in the FCC database. Sure, let him know, and he can get the parameters from the IC database, and assume an omni antenna.

Andy has always said that integrating the Industry Canada database was not high on his list of priorities (and besides, I don't think the IC database includes the antenna patterns, just the max and average ERP values.)

I thought that some of you might be interested in this web page which lists the current HD stations available in your zip code area. It also shows the channel lineups of satellite and cable companies. http://whereishd.com/news/

My wife and I watched the American Music Awards (AMA) on WVNY/ABC Sunday night. I noticed a lot of popping and crackling in the audio. I'm wondering if it was a problem with my reception or an upstream problem.

Did anyone else watch it? If so, did you notice any issues with the audio?

It actually sounded to me like interference with the wireless mic's on stage rather than anything to do with the broadcast itself. But still, I'm curious.

I watched it from WVNY-DT OTA using my DishNetwork ViP622 receiver.

So I've pretty much given up on WVNY ABC-22 on VHF-13.

I can receive it about 80% of the time during the day and about 50% of the time at night. ...

~ryan

For what it's worth, I'm sitting 7 miles west of Mt Mansfield with near perfect LOS to the transmitters, and I've noticed as well that I get dropouts on WVNY's signal at night. I noticed it last night and sort of blamed the weather, but it happened again tonight. I'm using an attic install on a Winegard HD-1080 (no amp/pre-amp), split 1:2, then again 1:3 on a total run of ~60' of mostly RG59. Admittedly with better cable and fewer splits I'm sure I could clean it up (and my converter box holds the signal just fine), but it does seem that the signal shouldn't degrade so much at night (and I have no problems with any of the other locals from Mt Mansfield).

Still happy to be pocketing the ~$20/month that used to go to Comcast. Helped me justify my pre-order on the DTVPal DVR. I'm hoping I can drop one of the splits once that arrives and I don't need to feed a signal to the converter box/VCR.

WVNY has also been dropping out here in Chazy NY.
Normally WVNY has a signal strength of 9 out of 10 bars
on my TV but lately will drop below 3 and I lose lock, it
will stay below 3 and sometimes 0 for minutes or hours
. I blamed the weather but after what I've been reading here
I wonder if the problem is on the mountain or the frequency
being VHF? The other channels (UHF) are rock solid 9-10 bars.

The equipment here is:

Winegard HD 7080P at 30' no pre-amp
35' of solid copper core RG-6 coax freq swept to 3ghz.
61" Panasonic LCD HDTV

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/11/21/comcast-adds-fx-hd-fox-news-hd-in-new-hampshire-and-massachuse/

Also added to Comcast in the Montpelier area. :)

To everyone in the Montreal region who wants to test channel 13 (WVNY) without the possible interference of channel 12 on Mt-Royal:

there will be a shut down of the cfcf 12 transmitter overnight Sunday, November 30, 2:30AM to 6 PM.

We will be able to see if channel 12 is really interfering with ABC 13 like they(ABC) are always saying when we call or email to complaint.

Please post your results here monday.

So did anybody receive WVNY during the CFCF Ch 12 shutdown?

~ryan

Apparently, CFCF did not shut down. I'm waiting for a confirmation from their director of operation.

Wish we could already be in 2011!!! The transition era would be over already!!!!

Apparently, CFCF did not shut down. I'm waiting for a confirmation from their director of operation.

Wish we could already be in 2011!!! The transition era would be over already!!!!

That sucks. I was looking forward to news that it is WVNY that is the problem.

2011 would be nice. By then I'll have moved to a new piece of land on top of a hill out in Avery's Gore in Essex County, VT. Nice place with no residents for 17 square miles. :-) Lots of quiet space an no local governance/zoning. Just have to follow state laws.

~ryan

Apparently, CFCF did not shut down. I'm waiting for a confirmation from their director of operation.



Did you check on the right night? The shutdown was scheduled for Sunday morning at 2:30 am, so you needed to stay up late on Saturday night to try the test. If you waited until Sunday night/Monday morning, as I did, then you were 24 hours late.

Well, it's here. For “Boston Legal” fans...this is it...the end. The show's finale is tonight. However, it’s a show that's been plagued by inept engineering at WVNY since its inception. Missing audio channels, drops from HD to SD and other such technical glitches have marred over half of the transmissions of this comic classic.
I am seriously thinking of mounting a picketing march if they screw up tonight's last episode! I've sent appeals to the broadcaster that they use an engineer tonight who doesn't have a hearing disorder…but I remain suspicious that Channel 22 even has engineers! Let us pray!

Last night's episode was flawless. HD all the way through and all 6 channels working! Nice change.

Yes...it was great. I even got this note from WVNY:
We are a couple months in on having received and installed a new switcher. I am assured by our engineers that the old problems are a thing of the past!
Happy viewing tonight!
~Sara

Yes...it was great. I even got this note from WVNY:
We are a couple months in on having received and installed a new switcher. I am assured by our engineers that the old problems are a thing of the past!
Happy viewing tonight!
~Sara

Happy viewing for those of us that get a watchable signal! They still have to resolve some other problems.


I'm able to watch it 85% of the time. I've done some more fine tuning, but still, it's not perfect, but better than nothing.

~ryan

Well you DirecTV subs got a nice Christmas present today! PBS-HD added. I can't confirm its both 33 and 57 but D's site does show 57-HD in their locals lookup! Congrats! :)

I heard for the first time this morning while watching the local morning news on WCAX that they're planning an experimental shutdown of their analog transmission. I didn't catch the date or time.

I'm guessing they're doing this to gauge how many calls they'll get from perturbed viewers come February?

You'll find VPT HD at 94.2, Comcast buried it in a sea of SD channels in the high numbers when they shifted things around this week.

I'm QAM capable as of this morning with my new TV, dumping my old samsung stb. So trying to pickup the DT from comcast basic ($18 lowest level). Pretty pleased so far, but a bit sad to not find PBS HD yet...

Wondering if this 94.2 is still working for people? I am getting nothing... Will try again primetime, or maybe 33-3 (see below) will go HD at primetime.

Thanks for any info.

If anyone's interested... Middlebury comcast, I'm getting:
3-1 WCAX HD (CBS)
3-2 WCAX WE (Weather)
5-1 WPTZ HD (NBC)
5-2 WPTZ WE (Weather)
22-1 WVNY (ABC)
33-3 WETK CR (PBS/Mtn Lake, but not HD. Not sure what CR means. Nothing on 33-1, or 33-2)
44-1 WFFF HD (FOX)
44-2 WFFF SD
70-1 WNNE HD (NBC)
81-XX (A bunch of apparent duplicates of the above stations in SD)
112-5 "FSC" Fox Soccer Channel ? Not HD though.
118-9 Some sport talk stuff... NHL radio? Not sure.
119-3 Terrible quality religious channel "The WOrld Network"

A sprinkling of 3-4 music channels.

I heard for the first time this morning while watching the local morning news on WCAX that they're planning an experimental shutdown of their analog transmission. I didn't catch the date or time.

I'm guessing they're doing this to gauge how many calls they'll get from perturbed viewers come February?

The test will be done by all stations @7:58 pm Dec 16th.

Some DirecTV news...

WCFE is now broadcasting their digital channel, no word on WETK yet, their 33-2 subchannel is still in place.

WLED is listed as a test channel for the market so we may be seeing it soon. WNNE is also listed as a test channel but I see no reason for them to light it up because sans a 5 minute news segment at 11 and different commercials it is no different from WPTZ.

WMUR is also listed as a test station for the Boston market. Hopefully those of us who live in New Hampshire may see it soon.

And hopefully we'll see some programming on WCWF soon. It amazes me we could get 3 PBS's, 2 NBC's, 2 ABC's (for some of us), and ION in HD before our CW. I saw something on Fox 44 telling people to call/email DirecTV to get them to add the CW. Hopefully enough people will call in for them to add it.

Has anyone else found audio drop outs on the Burlington PBS station's HD feed. The same signal from WCFE does not exhibit the problem for me.

I saw something on Fox 44 telling people to call/email DirecTV to get them to add the CW. Hopefully enough people will call in for them to add it.
Given the speed D added PBS-HD for the Burlington market compared to other larger locations you might just get it!:) I'm with E* and have no such illusions given the inability to deliver anything of value since early summer..
The only brightspot... so far was the latest sat launch yesterday went well but its for the western markets. Anyway, congrats!:D

Wondering if this 94.2 is still working for people? I am getting nothing... .

I'm still getting it.

You might try re-programming your channels, it's possible that Comcast's occasional tweaking of channels has put the signal out of synch with your TV.

I'm still getting it.

You might try re-programming your channels, it's possible that Comcast's occasional tweaking of channels has put the signal out of synch with your TV.

Hmm... that's really odd. I just tried the reprogram, and also manually entering those numbers - but still nothing. I actually called VPT too, and they said the same thing as you are seeing (94-2). I get everything else.... what the heck? I wonder if it could have something to do with those filters they put on for the internet lines?

Thanks for checking though.

I'm QAM capable as of this morning with my new TV, dumping my old samsung stb. So trying to pickup the DT from comcast basic ($18 lowest level). Pretty pleased so far, but a bit sad to not find PBS HD yet...

Wondering if this 94.2 is still working for people? I am getting nothing... Will try again primetime, or maybe 33-3 (see below) will go HD at primetime.

Thanks for any info.

If anyone's interested... Middlebury comcast, I'm getting:
3-1 WCAX HD (CBS)
3-2 WCAX WE (Weather)
5-1 WPTZ HD (NBC)
5-2 WPTZ WE (Weather)
22-1 WVNY (ABC)
33-3 WETK CR (PBS/Mtn Lake, but not HD. Not sure what CR means. Nothing on 33-1, or 33-2)
44-1 WFFF HD (FOX)
44-2 WFFF SD
70-1 WNNE HD (NBC)
81-XX (A bunch of apparent duplicates of the above stations in SD)
112-5 "FSC" Fox Soccer Channel ? Not HD though.
118-9 Some sport talk stuff... NHL radio? Not sure.
119-3 Terrible quality religious channel "The WOrld Network"

A sprinkling of 3-4 music channels.


33-3 is VPT, not Mtn Lake PBS. CR=Create TV which MLPBS does not carry at all. Instead MLPBS carries ThinkBright TV which is a cooperative effort among the PBS stations in NY State. Create TV is always SD and consists of old PBS shows.

The sub-channels that VPT and MLPBS actually broadcast are:

VPT (WETK)

33.1 PBS HD channel
33.2 SD Simulcast of VPT's channel 33 analogue programming
33.3 VPT-Create (SD)
33.4 PBS World (SD)

MLPBS (WCFE)

57.1 PBS HD channel (same as 33.1, but MLPBS had it 2 years before WETK)
57.2 SD Simulcast of MLPBS's channel 57 analogue programming
57.3 ThinkBright TV (SD)

So it appears that Middlebury Comcast is not carrying any MLPBS sub-channels in its basic package and is missing some VPT sub-channels. Note that all digital channels, including the HD ones, are sub-channels by definition.

I am looking at tgetting rid of Comcast. I was looking at the Turbo HD that Dishnetwork offers. Is anyone here using it? ALso are you having problems getting local HD channels? And is there anyway to get NESN hd with this package?

Thanks
Shawn

VPT (WETK)

33.1 PBS HD channel
33.2 SD Simulcast of VPT's channel 33 analogue programming
33.3 VPT-Create (SD)
33.4 PBS World (SD)

MLPBS (WCFE)

57.1 PBS HD channel (same as 33.1, but MLPBS had it 2 years before WETK)
57.2 SD Simulcast of MLPBS's channel 57 analogue programming
57.3 ThinkBright TV (SD)

So it appears that Middlebury Comcast is not carrying any MLPBS sub-channels in its basic package and is missing some VPT sub-channels. Note that all digital channels, including the HD ones, are sub-channels by definition.

That's good info Brian. I had my logo's confused with VPT and MLPBS...

But now I'm even MORE frustrated! Because now I realize I am getting both analog VPT and MLPBS (6 and 14 respectively), as well as SD simulcast versions (the -2's apparently), which Comcast has mapped to 81-4 and 81-7 respectively. But no HD/DT channels for either!!! Not at 57-xx, 94-xx, 33-xx.... nada! (except the still present 33-3).

I'm sure comcast could give a crap about slobs like me with $18/month cable. The bummer is that I'd trade 2 or 3 other networks for PBS!

I am looking at tgetting rid of Comcast. I was looking at the Turbo HD that Dishnetwork offers. Is anyone here using it? ALso are you having problems getting local HD channels? And is there anyway to get NESN hd with this package?

Thanks
Shawn
I have DishNet with HD and am very happy with it. I would be happy with the HD only package but it is not an option for current customers. I believe I have NESN-HD so it should be available with one of the tiers. I have the HD locals for CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX, but not VPT. Fortunately I can get them all with an antenna which give me the option to record 3 channels simultaneously with the DishNet DVR (one on each of the two tuners and one from the antenna.)
The main recommendation I have is to find a local dealer for the installation. Every installation I've had by calling Dish directly has taken 3 tries for someone to show up. I wish I had used Jost Electronics in nearby Morrisville instead as they would have been there when they said. Once you get an installation done by a sub-contractor, you can't change to anyone else for service.

I am looking at tgetting rid of Comcast. I was looking at the Turbo HD that Dishnetwork offers. Is anyone here using it? ALso are you having problems getting local HD channels? And is there anyway to get NESN hd with this package?


Aside from PBS in HD, locals are available in HD from both Dish and DirecTV (primary subchannels only for DirecTV, don't know about Dish), as is NESN-HD.

PBS in HD is coming, but could be quite a wait.

The main recommendation I have is to find a local dealer for the installation. Every installation I've had by calling Dish directly has taken 3 tries for someone to show up. I wish I had used Jost Electronics in nearby Morrisville instead as they would have been there when they said. Once you get an installation done by a sub-contractor, you can't change to anyone else for service.Interesting... I've only had to call DISH for installations 2ce in the 10+ years I've had DISH (once to get my first SD DVR, and a 2nd time when I went to the HD DVR - the initial installation was DIY from a self-install package I bought at Costco). Both times guys from local satellite outfits are the ones who showed up. They were on-time the first time and did a bang-up job.

BTW - I also get NESN-HD. You get it if you order the locals pkg + HD.

The main recommendation I have is to find a local dealer for the installation. Every installation I've had by calling Dish directly has taken 3 tries for someone to show up.
I echo Ski's reccomendation to use a local installer. Even though I am in Burlington I went with M.R. Satelite out of Alburg(Burlington is still a local market to them) back in 2000 when I went DirecTv. When I changed to Dish in 2007 I called them again. Excellent service.

I have AEP plan with all the HD's. Yes NESN-HD is part of my package. If you are a new sub and wait til most likely February you probably be set up with the EA(Eastern Arc) sat dish. Currently EA is only in select markets. Again a call to a local installer can confirm that rather then CSR roulette... The 1000.4 dish will receive its signals from 3 sat's. This will eliminate the need for a wing dish pointing at 61.5 where our locals and lots of other HD channels come from.

Anyone else notice that Comcast has placed a NH Public Television SD feed on Channel 0 (yes, channel zero)? I can't imagine why anyone would need/want it in northwestern Vermont, when we get Mountain Lake and VPT.

BTW, I called WPTZ on Sunday to complain about their failure (again) to send an HD feed due to their master control operator being asleep at the wheel. Suffice to say, the master control operator who answered the phone expected it was another employee, since Master Control is not normally accessible to viewers (I figured it out by process of elimination)..and when I asked my question, she seemed startled, and asked "Is this a viewer?". When I replied yes, she began to get very surly and sarcastic with me, treating me as if I was devoid of any knowledge of broadcasting. I asked her where the NBC feed was coming from so that I could call them to check on the status of the HD feed, and she said, very smart-alecky, in slow-motion voice, "It.Comes.From.The.Satellite.Dish.Next.To.The.Building".

I suggested that she needed to lose the attitude or I would have a chat directly with Mr. Sands, the general manager, the next morning. Apparently the fact that I knew the name of the GM perhaps made her realize that being rude to viewers who called wasn't such a great idea if the boss was going to find out. Needless to say, customer service is not alive and well at WPTZ.

Has anyone else noticed that the "HD" news on WFFF and WVNY has been shown in letterboxed 4:3 SD since at least a week ago? I've noticed it 3-4 times through D* and OTA and haven't seen it in HD in a while now. Nothing looks better than windowboxed HD news transmitted in 4:3 480i.

Well, the big test by local TV stations to make sure that us common folks are ready for the HD transition has proven one thing: The only people that are not ready...are the local TV stations! Can't at least one of them afford a switcher that will allow them to super material on the screen and not drop the HD to SD?

Can't at least one of them afford a switcher that will allow them to super material on the screen and not drop the HD to SD?I happened to notice the other morning that WCAX can overlay the sports crawl in wide-screen, but they need to go 4:3 for the school closing overlay. So i guess it depends on what they consier more-important. :) Also. anytime I've seen WPTZ do any kind of overlay, they have to drop to 4:3 SD and it looks terrible. Half the time they forget to switch back when the overlay is done until the next commercial break. I really would like to spend an evening in the master-control and see just what is it that makes this so hard to get right. My guess is that it's not hard, but it involves some manual effort - so there's the element of human error.

Also. anytime I've seen WPTZ do any kind of overlay, they have to drop to 4:3 SD and it looks terrible. Half the time they forget to switch back when the overlay is done until the next commercial break. I really would like to spend an evening in the master-control and see just what is it that makes this so hard to get right. My guess is that it's not hard, but it involves some manual effort - so there's the element of human error.

If you've ever been in a local television station master control room, the first thing that becomes apparent is the the Master Control operator usually is required to do a whole bunch of off-air tasks in addition to running the board for the on-air program.

The second thing you'd notice is that the Master Control operator is usually some low-paid schlub who does not give a damn about things like switching back promptly from SD to HD after a station ID at, let's say, 7PM. After all, there's a pizza to consume, too, for dinner. Get it while it's hot, and who cares if Brian Williams ends the Nightly News in SD, and with a garbled audio feed to boot?

WPTZ is hardly alone in this TV market with such personnel, though they do seem lately to be reaching bottom of the barrel performance not seen since WVNY-TV 22 circa 1986.

BTW, I called WPTZ on Sunday to complain about their failure (again) to send an HD feed due to their master control operator being asleep at the wheel. Suffice to say, the master control operator who answered the phone expected it was another employee, since Master Control is not normally accessible to viewers (I figured it out by process of elimination)..and when I asked my question, she seemed startled, and asked "Is this a viewer?". When I replied yes, she began to get very surly and sarcastic with me, treating me as if I was devoid of any knowledge of broadcasting. I asked her where the NBC feed was coming from so that I could call them to check on the status of the HD feed, and she said, very smart-alecky, in slow-motion voice, "It.Comes.From.The.Satellite.Dish.Next.To.The.Building".

I suggested that she needed to lose the attitude or I would have a chat directly with Mr. Sands, the general manager, the next morning. Apparently the fact that I knew the name of the GM perhaps made her realize that being rude to viewers who called wasn't such a great idea if the boss was going to find out. Needless to say, customer service is not alive and well at WPTZ.


Haha. I also called in to Master Control a couple years ago. It was around midnight when Leno was on and there was no sound. I called WPTZ not really expecting anyone to answer, but when the options came there was one like "if you have a breaking news story, press 5". Someone picks up "newsroom" and I just asked to be transfered to master control. A few seconds after they switched from HD to SD but at least I had sound. It's just unfortunate that no one is doing any quality control or monitoring, which I thought was the first item in a master control operator's job description.

There are people who take pride in their work, regardless of the size of their paycheck.

Then there are people who don't give a **** about their job performance, especially if they perceive that they aren't being paid to their satisfaction.

There are plenty of people who started their TV careers in Master Control who cared enough to excel, and in turn, their careers advanced well beyond Master Control.

And there are people who work in Master Control who will always be able to afford only pizza for dinner, precisely because they justify their lack of effort and lack of professionalism to a paycheck they perceive as too small. "If you pay me more, I'll work harder" is the attitude.

But life doesn't work that way, exguitarplayer.

I submit that the surly Master Control type I encountered on the phone at WPTZ likely fits the latter category.

Does anyone else have a problem with audio dropouts on Vermont Public Television's HD feed from Burlington? It is intermitent. I've contacted them but with the typical no reply....

Does anyone else have a problem with audio dropouts on Vermont Public Television's HD feed from Burlington? It is intermitent. I've contacted them but with the typical no reply....

Yup. It happens during Motorweek every single week without fail.

Does anyone else have a problem with audio dropouts on Vermont Public Television's HD feed from Burlington? It is intermitent. I've contacted them but with the typical no reply....
Yes, I've had the dropouts too. I've had to record the holiday season concerts from Ch 57 in New York because of the dropouts. I did do an experiment and record the Mormon Tabernacle Choir from both sources; clean from NY, audio blips from VT. I haven't taken the time to determine if it only affects my DirectTV DVR or is heard live also, but recorded I get clean sound from New York and burps from Vermont. (Everything discussed here is OTA via antenna, not via DirecTV). Too bad, VPT has been excellent for a long time and their picture quality (IMHO) is slightly crisper than NY.

Hi All,

I was able to receive 2-1 (20-1 CBC in French) and 35-1 (42-2 TQS in French) today. The signals were marginal with dropouts, but they were there. I have not made any changes to my antenna recently. I wonder if the broadcasters are improving things or can I credit the weather?

James

I've had CBC 2.1 and 6.1 from time to time here in Essex, but it seems to be related to atmospherics. The good news is that next summer the tower on Mount Royal will be modified to accommodate digital transmitters. The work is scheduled for completion by September. The CBC will be moving both channels there as will some of the other stations. Unfortunately CTV (Ch 12) hasn't announced any plans for digital transmission until the required Canadian cutover in 2011. Details can be followed here: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=51210&page=44

Hopefully with the increase in transmitter height and I suppose an increase in power, those of us who currently can get a decent analog signal from Montreal will be able to enjoy some good digital pictures. I especially like the Canadian Olympics coverage, which has more sport and less fluff than NBC.

Does anyone else have a problem with audio dropouts on Vermont Public Television's HD feed from Burlington? It is intermitent. I've contacted them but with the typical no reply....

This seems to have started back in October, I thought it was my setup and have usually been watching 57.1 instead. I think they backed off a little on the audio level, but it still cuts out with higher sound levels. This is the only channel I have experienced this problem with. Tuner is a Zenith DTT-900 with the audio fix -- 4/08. At some point I will try hooking up a different receiver to see if the problem still exists.

Unfortunately CTV (Ch 12) hasn't announced any plans for digital transmission until the required Canadian cutover in 2011. Details can be followed here: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=51210&page=44

Hopefully with the increase in transmitter height and I suppose an increase in power, those of us who currently can get a decent analog signal from Montreal will be able to enjoy some good digital pictures. I especially like the Canadian Olympics coverage, which has more sport and less fluff than NBC.

Sadly CTV is the Olympic broadcaster in Canada from 2010 on. Unless CFCF begins broadcasting in digital in the next 12 months, we are all SOL for the Vancouver Winter games. In any event CTV coverage will be no better than NBC so we might as well watch NBC.

Why aren't shows like Jeopardy, wheel of Fortune, Oprah, dr Phil, Ellen, and Regis and Kelly being brodcast in HD? Sorry if this has been posted already but I didnt have time to go through 113 pages, Thanks

Who airs those shows in Burlington/Plattsburgh? Oprah and Dr. Phil air in HD here in Hartford/New Haven on WFSB-DT (CBS) of Hartford. They also air ET in HD as well.

WCAX Channel 3 airs Ellen and Dr Phil. WPTZ Channel 5 airs Oprah, Regis and Kelly, Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune. WCAX Channel 3 also airs ET. I get my locals through Dish Network.

Why aren't shows like Jeopardy, wheel of Fortune, Oprah, dr Phil, Ellen, and Regis and Kelly being brodcast in HD? Sorry if this has been posted already but I didnt have time to go through 113 pages, Thanks

These shows are known as "syndicators" in the industry. They, unlike network programming, are up-linked via satellite to local TV stations daily. They are then videotaped by the local and broadcast at their locally scheduled time. The problem is, however, that no local Burlington market station seems to have either the HD recording facilities nor the switching devices needed to modulate the HD signal to their transmitters at this stage.
As an aside, I have a former student who is the lead photojournalist at CNN in Washington. She notes that Sony and Pannasonic are over a year behind their proposed schedules in delivering HD products to that news organization. Couple that with the problems that are plaguing the first generation HD broadcast products and you can understand why local stations are probably skeptical about buying equipment that they'll have to replace soon.

I had a lot of problems watching the BCS championship last night as the fox signal was bouncing from 75 to 59 on my Vip622.
The other stations were maybe a tad lower but stable. VPT was 91%.
Anyone else sees this before? I usually don't watch fox at night very much but when I do, I normally don't lose the picture.

I had a lot of problems watching the BCS championship last night as the fox signal was bouncing from 75 to 59 on my Vip622.
The other stations were maybe a tad lower but stable. VPT was 91%.
Anyone else sees this before? I usually don't watch fox at night very much but when I do, I normally don't lose the picture.

I didn't notice any change. My 722 hits 90-100 signal strength all the time from Fox OTA here in Williston. I'll check again tonight and compare that with the Dish feed of their signal also.

Industry Canada has released the "final" post-transition (After Aug 31, 2011) channel assignments. In the list below, the first number is the current NTSC channel, the second number is the transition period digital channel and the last number is the post-transition channel number.

CBFT 2 - 19 - 19
CBMT 6 - 20 - 21
CFTM 10 - 59 - 10
CFCF 12 - 21 - 12
CIVM 17 - 27 - 26
CFTU 29 - 54 - 29
CFJP 35 - 42 - 35
CKMI 46 - 51 - 51
CJNT 62 - 69 - 49

So, only channels CFTM and CFCF will be broadcasting on VHF.

I just wanna say what's up with Comcast's CBSHD and NBCHD channels? I have to turn up the volume to listening levels when I'm watching a football game, but when a commercial comes on it's so much louder than the game I have to fumble for the mute button. Also, why do they have to switch to standard definition from HD with the stations info scrolling across the screen? When they do that, the volume is so dam loud. I've also noticed on more than one occasion they do it at the worst time during a key play or something. The worst is when they switch to SD durting Late Night with Conan Obrien. It can take them forever to switch back HD. Why not just keep it on HD all the time? No one has to answer my questions I'm just venting. :mad:/end

I just wanna say what's up with Comcast's CBSHD and NBCHD channels?FWIW - It's not ComCast, it's the local stations themselves. WPTZ (ch5) is the worst, but they all do it to some extent. The volume thing is a fairly well-know phenomenon where they crank up the volume of the commercials so you "notice" them.

As for dropping into SD... That's because it looks like none of the local stations have bothered to buy equipment capable of inserting the "station identification" required by the FCC onto an HD signal, so they have to drop into SD to do the overlay.

Hopefully they'll be motivited to get their acts together by the impending analog->DTV switch-over next month.

Actually, I think that the problem rests often times with the advertising concept of "local avails" which simply means that local stations and cable companies have equipment that allows them to automatically insert commercials into standard programming. TV shows have embeded electronic cues that will trigger the automatic electronic insertion of a commercial into the local outlet's programming. Syndicated shows are sold to local stations with the understanding that the local station will have a prescribed number of these "local availibilities." The local station can then sell that commercial time locally so that, for example, a Shaws' Market can advertise in the middle of popular shows like Entertainment Tonight. The cues trigger the local stations computers to cut away from the show, insert the commercial, and return to the show.
The problem, of course, is that the audio levels really never match. Anyone who decides that their commercial deserves a "louder" volume can affect that control. Now add that to the fact that both local stations and cable companies seem to have fired many of their engineers for the sake of automation, and that the FCC has relaxed their rules (deregulation rears its ugly head again) on broadcast quality and we're placed into a world of audio garbage. This also affects the satellite providers for exactly the same reasons and technology. Indeed, the volume increase on inserted commercials by Dish Network is so bad that I've started using my DVR for everything--even the news. It is really a shame because I simply do not stop for commercials anymore. If there are others out there like me, it would seem that the sponsors have defeated their vision of wanting to stand out from the normal volume of the show. Whether this volume change happens intentionally or not is really meaningless as the outcome is the same.
Dolby Labs is working on a fix for this but I assume it will use some sort of compression scheme and its been my experience that compression always leads to loss in audio dynamics.
The Lord giveth...and the Lord taketh away!

I hope the new Prez does not delay the cutover date.

I am anxious to see if eliminating co-channel interference from the channel 33 and 44 analog signals affects my digital signal quality. I have alot of multipath at my location and the 33 and 44 analog signals are very strong and completely unwatchable.

Actually, that reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask....

For those DTV channels which are not currently broadcasting on their final DTV frequency assignment, when will they switch? On the Feb. cut-over date, or some time thereafter?

Just wondering because I'll need to repeat my channel scan if/when they change frequencies.

WCAX is the only station changing frequencies in the Burlington market. They have has said they will lower power shortly before 2/17, change frequencies on some of their equipment and then come back up on CH22 as soon as it is vacated, returning to full power shortly thereafter. Of course with Congress debating a possible last minute delay of the death of analog, all bets could be off.

Actually, that reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask....

For those DTV channels which are not currently broadcasting on their final DTV frequency assignment, when will they switch? On the Feb. cut-over date, or some time thereafter?

Just wondering because I'll need to repeat my channel scan if/when they change frequencies.

Under the legislation that set the analogue cutoff date, the reduction of the RF spectrum used by TV broadcasting to channels 2 to 51 (excluding channel 37) takes effect at the Midnight (12:00 am) on February 18, 2009. So legally WCAX must be off channel 53 by that time, unless Congress complies with Obama's request to delay the deadline. Also WVNY must be off channel 22 by 11:59:59 pm on Feb 17, but I doubt they'll leave it to that late in the day. Run your scan on Feb 18 and you should be ok.

I get the cheapest package from Comcast - about $19. It is not digital - their cheapest digital packages start at $50 or so. I do have a DVD recorder with digital tuner, so I have found the extra channels - WCAX HD and weather, VPT create, etc. Here's my question. If I were to get a HD television, but stick with the cheap non-digital Comcast package, would the picture on the HD channels look better? What I'm asking is, is Comcast actually providing me with HD channels (is that even possible when I am not buying Comcast's digital package)? Or is Comcast simply providing the alternative aspect ratios? (I had noticed SNL getting chopped so I'm glad to get these extra channels).

Thanks.
Cathy

What I'm asking is, is Comcast actually providing me with HD channels (is that even possible when I am not buying Comcast's digital package)?The answer is yes. The digital stations your tuner is picking up with its QAM tuner are the result of the cable head-end receiving the over-the-air HDTV transmissions from the local affiliates and then re-broadcasting them digitally over cable "in the clear". The FCC has mandated that they do so without requiring customers to buy a digital package. However, as a lot of people on this forum have noted, they (the cable company) like to move around the channel assignments every so often, so if you find all of a sudden that a channel has disappeared, repeat your channel scan to find them again.

The digital stations your tuner is picking up with its QAM tuner are the result of the cable head-end receiving the over-the-air HDTV transmissions from the local affiliates and then re-broadcasting them digitally over cable "in the clear". The FCC has mandated that they do so without requiring customers to buy a digital package. However, as a lot of people on this forum have noted, they (the cable company) like to move around the channel assignments every so often, so if you find all of a sudden that a channel has disappeared, repeat your channel scan to find them again.

And yet when you quiz Comcast at their office in South Burlington, they will absolutely deny that they have any role whatsoever in bringing those channels to subscribers. They INSIST when I quizzed them on repeated occasions that the only reason I get those channels is because I am receiving them Over The Air thru my QAM tuner....that they are NOT being carried on the Comcast cable. All of which made the recent move of VT Public Television's HD signal from 21.3 to 94.2 that much more hilarious.

The answer is yes. The digital stations your tuner is picking up with its QAM tuner are the result of the cable head-end receiving the over-the-air HDTV transmissions from the local affiliates and then re-broadcasting them digitally over cable "in the clear". The FCC has mandated that they do so without requiring customers to buy a digital package. However, as a lot of people on this forum have noted, they (the cable company) like to move around the channel assignments every so often, so if you find all of a sudden that a channel has disappeared, repeat your channel scan to find them again.

Thanks for the info! I'm so excited. We're going to Circuit City tonight to see if they have a good deal on a small HDTV. I was excited when my friend in Underhill got excellent reception over the air, but then we, in Hinesburg, got very little, and I was disappointed. Now I'm excited again. We don't need hundreds of channels, but it'll be cool to get the basics in HD. Plus, my tuner found the WCAX and WPTZ weather channels, NECN (yay - a news channel!), and a couple extra public TV stations. (Oh, and a god channel - we'll block that one).

Cathy

Don't get suckered in to believing like so many do, that the Circuit City "liquidators" are offering good deals. Most times what they do is simply mark everything UP to MSRP, then markdown X% to give the illusion of great savings. The thing is, CC was most times originally selling for the same or less than the "liquidator" is now. For example, CC had a TV selling for $2199. The "liquidator" marks it UP to the MSRP of $2999, then advertises it at 25% off. What's that great price? $2249. $50 MORE than CC had been selling it for.:eek: Yet still, you'd think they were giving TVs away, the way people buy things at these "sales".:rolleyes: Tread carefully.

yet still, you'd think they were giving tvs away, the way people buy things at these "sales".:rolleyes: Tread carefully.
+1

Don't get suckered in to believing like so many do, that the Circuit City "liquidators" are offering good deals. Most times what they do is simply mark everything UP to MSRP, then markdown X% to give the illusion of great savings. The thing is, CC was most times originally selling for the same or less than the "liquidator" is now. For example, CC had a TV selling for $2199. The "liquidator" marks it UP to the MSRP of $2999, then advertises it at 25% off. What's that great price? $2249. $50 MORE than CC had been selling it for.:eek: Yet still, you'd think they were giving TVs away, the way people buy things at these "sales".:rolleyes: Tread carefully.I have to say, Costco is the place to beat these days when it comes to HDTV purchases. They have very good prices, a no-questions asked 90-day return policy, and extend all warranties to 2 years at no additional cost. The warranty extension alone is worth the cost of the annual membership.

Thanks for all your help, guys. We did get a new 22" HDTV (we don't want a bigger one - our old 4:3 tube tv was 19" and we were happy with that size). The channels we are getting from our basic "analog" Comcast package ARE HD! Very cool. Although I hate "Lost", we couldn't help staring at the water and palm trees...

So now, one last question, regarding our DVD player/recorder. We have the Cable TV cable going into the DVD player, then we have composite cables (I think - red green blue) going to the tv, and also a coax cable going to the tv so that we don't have to have the dvd player (and stereo, where we have the dvd sound going) turned on just to watch tv.

With the DVD player on, I went into the DVD player set-up to tell it we now have widescreen. It gives me 4 options:
4:3 interlaced - 480i
4:3 progressive - 480p
widescreen interlaced - 480i
widescreen progressive - 480p

but the new tv is 720p. So what's up with that? Do we have an inferior DVD player (there is no way we're buying a new one anytime soon), or is this normal?

2nd question - we hooked up the coax from dvd to tv so we don't have to turn anything else on to watch tv. But we also felt the HD channels look best viewed this way, with the dvd off (just passing through the coax signal), using the tv tuner to change channels, than with the dvd player on, using the dvd player to change channels. The dvd player does have a digital tuner (can tune in 3-1 for instance), so is this just our imagination, or is the dvd player degrading the picture for some reason?

Cathy

The red-green-blue video cables are component (the single yellow is composite) and will allow you to use progressive scan yielding a better picture. Set the DVD player to widescreen progressive 480p. Your TV should upscale to 720p and you should be pleased with the picture from widescreen movies.
There are upscaling DVD players available that will output 720p, but I really doubt you could see any difference. Even a Blu-ray player wouldn't make much of a difference on a 720p small screen.

Although there is a scarcity of ATSC tuners available for those who bought HDTV "Ready" monitors, there is a solution that adds DVD recording capability and that is the Panasonic DMR ...
Further research finds that the ATSC tuner does not pass an HD signal, just 480p in 16x9, so this is not a perfect solution.

This forum is so useful! So it wasn't my imagination that the picture wasn't really HD using the DVD recorder's (a Panasonic DMR) ATSC tuner! So much to learn.... Good thing I got a TV with the right tuners instead of relying on the DVD recorder.

Cathy

I think you touched on one of the most confusing aspects of the HDTV transition. A lot of people have simply swapped out their SD TV for HDTVs, but have not changed how the components are connected (this is possible because HDTVs have the inferior Composite Video and S-Video inputs for backward-compatibility reasons) and wondered why the picture wasn't much better than before. To get a truly HD picture from an outboard source you need to go with either component video connections or HDMI.

There is a similar thing going on with the audio portion, by the way. If you simply hook up the Red+White RCA connections to your TV or home theater receiver, you're only getting 2-channel stereo, or Dolby Pro Logic at best. To get the true 5.1 channel Surround Sound experience you need to use either the HDMI, digital coax, or digital optical (aka TOSlink) output directly into your mulit-channel home theater receiver.

...To get a truly HD picture from an outboard source you need to go with either component video connections or HDMI.

I disagree (but maybe I just don't know what you mean by outboard). I'm receiving the signal originally on coax. Plugging the coax directly into the tv eliminates the chance of any other device compressing the signal. So, component or HMDI isn't necessarily necessary. And, in fact, using component cables from the DVD recorder DIDN'T help, because the DVD recorder won't pass along the HD signal (except on coax), no matter what cables I use.

Of course, if I want to record anything, the coax has to go into the DVD recorder. But luckily the coax pass-through on the DVD recorder passes through the original signal - only when the DVD recorder is off, I think... (maybe when it's on, too - gotta test it) so we leave the recorder off when watching tv. In summary, coax from wall to DVD-R, coax from DVD-R to tv in order to get HD (this acts like the DVD-R isn't even there, same as plugging coax straight to tv), then component from DVD-R to tv for watching DVDs.

Hi guys, sorry for posting so much recently. I have one more question. We got a 22" tv - I know that's small, but our old tv was 19" and we thought that was fine. The problem I'm having is that when I tell the tv to display a HD channel at 16:9, I get slight letterboxing, which annoys me, and also means the image isn't as tall as we were getting for the sd version of the channels on our 19" 4:3 tv. The bars annoy me. I've discovered that although the tv box says 16:9, it also says the resolution is 1680x1050 which is NOT 16:9, it is 16:10. I feel this is false advertising. The problem is (and I know you'll say "I told you so"), I did buy it at Circuit City, so I can't return it at all. But it's not what the box advertised! I want my 16:9 HD channels to fill the screen fully (or not be stretched vertically when it does - which is one option on the tv). So now I'm bummed. From my research, it seems like the 22" tvs are all 1680x1050 = 16:10, and all the 26" ones are 1366x768 = 16:9. Seems weird that the smaller tvs have higher resolution but I think it's because they can also be used with a computer, and computer widescreen is 16:10.

Any ideas? Seems like I screwed myself and it's my own fault for buying from Circuit City with no return policy. I could challenge the charge on my credit card... it was false advertising. I'm not sure what the credit card company would do since Circuit City won't take returns, and told me that when I bought it.

On the other hand, I can't find a 22" that is 16:9 (some say they are, but if you look at the pixel resolution, they are all 1680x1050 = 16:10), and if we move up to a 26"... I think we can only afford a lesser brand name (the 22" is an LG. The only 26" we can afford would be Insignia, which actually got decent reviews on Consumer Reports... but still, we had been thinking 26" is bigger than what we want...)

Cathy

Cathy

Cathy,
Have you tried the TV's different aspect ratios? Usually a button on the remote.

Hi guys, sorry for posting so much recently. I have one more question. We got a 22" tv - I know that's small, but our old tv was 19" and we thought that was fine.OK. Just for fun, what's the math say?

Let x = the horizontal dimension of the screen
Let y = the vertical dimension of the screen
Let d = the diagonal measurement of the screen
Let a = the aspect ratio

According to Pythagoras, d^2 = x^2 + y^2

We also know that y = x * a

Therefore, if we know d and a we can figure out x and y

So, for the following screen sizes and aspect ratios we get:
d=19, a=4:3, x=15.2, y=11.4
d=22, a=16:9, x=19.2, y=10.8

So, it looks like the vertical dimension of the 22in widescreen TV is only slightly less than the vertical dimension of the 4:3 TV, meaning a pillarboxed 4:3 picture on the new widescreen HDTV will be slightly smaller than a fullscreen 4:3 picture on the old SDTV it's replacing.

Then again, I'm using the 22in and 19in specs directly, and we know those are only approximations, so the actual comparison between the 2 TVs may vary somewhat from the theoretical.

I've discovered that although the tv box says 16:9, it also says the resolution is 1680x1050 which is NOT 16:9, it is 16:10.I wonder if the TV has a mode which allows you to fill the screen vertically and chop off the left and right edges rather than preserve the 16:9 aspect ratio with letterboxing?

From my research, it seems like the 22" tvs are all 1680x1050 = 16:10FYI - I found that the Vizio 22in has a true 16:9 aspect ratio (1920x1080):

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11325659

Thanks for everyone's input. With respect to vttom playing with the numbers, yes, IF it was a 22" 16:9, then the height of the programs would be about the same. But since it is a 22" 16:10, and thus I get letterboxing on HD programming, the image (not including the letterboxing) is more like a 21" diagonal. Whatever. It's slightly less.

Well, I think I'm sticking with what I've got. One reason is that I found the setting where it will switch the aspect ratio depending on whether it's a HD or SD channel. Thus, there is no distortion on either. The HD has slight letterboxing, and the SD has windowboxing (black bars on sides). So the taller screen (16:10) ends up being a decent compromise (the SD channels would be smaller on a 16:9). I was thinking we only had 2 SDs - ESPN and NECN (New England Cable News), but the 2 SD PBS stations are sometimes different than the PBS HD, so that's two more.

However, when an HD channel shows something that didn't happen to be taped in HD (like our local news), or an SD channel does it's own letterboxing to show a wider image (like nature shows), then I get borders all around (windowboxed letterbox, or letterboxed windowboxed). There is no setting on this tv to then slightly zoom in without distortion (as vttom asked)

Also... I watched a yoga DVD and was thrilled with the quality... It filled the screen on my old 4:3, and it fills the screen on this 16:10, so I'm not sure if it's being squished or what (doesn't seem particularly squished), but in any case, I liked it. Finally, I had thought the box said 16:9 which is a blatant lie, but it doesn't say anything. Maybe the price & info placard at Circuit City said 16:9 - I thought SOMETHING said that. But at least the box didn't lie, so I don't feel so angry anymore.

I do feel like on the 22" HDTVs, they should make more of a point of emphasizing this, so you know there will be letterboxing on 16:9. I stopped by Best Buy today and most of their 22" do say 16:9 on the box. The LG (what I got) doesn't say anything.

Thanks for listening. It's good to have this forum to vent & ask questions.

Cathy

Senate OKs 4-month delay to digital TV changeover

By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer – 35 mins ago

WASHINGTON – People who have not gotten their TV sets ready for the changeover to digital signals could earn a four-month reprieve under a bill making its way through Congress.
The Senate voted Monday to delay until June 12 the deadline for the changeover from analog to digital television broadcasting. People still getting their pictures through old-fashioned antennas otherwise would face a Feb. 17 cutoff.
Comparable legislation is being readied in the House, and the Obama administration has called for a delay amid mounting concerns that too many Americans who rely on over-the-air broadcast signals won't be ready.
It's estimated that more than 6.5 million U.S. households are still not prepared for the upcoming transition

T...
However, when an HD channel shows something that didn't happen to be taped in HD (like our local news), or an SD channel does it's own letterboxing to show a wider image (like nature shows), then I get borders all around (windowboxed letterbox, or letterboxed windowboxed). There is no setting on this tv to then slightly zoom in without distortion (as vttom asked)...
Cathy

I've heard this commonly referred to as "postage stamp."

I have to say that I'm very surprised that your new TV doesn't have a "Zoom" aspect option that magnifies the image to fill the screen keeping everything in original proportion. I use this one for such broadcasts, admittedly it sometimes trims a small amount at the top and bottom. I will note that on such SD broadcasts it sometimes magnifies how poor the picture quality looks after you've gotten used to the HD signals.

With the DTV delay almost imminent I wonder how things will shake up around here. The only station in our DMA currently slated to sign off on February 17th is WLED. WCAX would seem like the most likely ones to switch, but with WVNY on 22 that doesn't seem likely. WPTZ could always abandon 5 for 14 but I don't know how likely that is. The Vermont PBS's and Mountain Lake could go all digital as well. I figure when WVNY and WFFF switch, they'll do it at the same time and I don't know how friendly they'd be to WCAX. Does anyone think WCAX would stop broadcasting on channel 3, go exclusively to 53 and then switch to 22 when WVNY leaves it?

I have to believe that none of the stations will sign off their analogue signals on Feb. 17, if Congress authorizes an extension.

Why would they? February is ratings month, and signing off unilaterally while your competition stays on the air is simply asking for trouble.

Why shoot yourself in the foot, why take the chance that a couple of ratings homes are OTA analogue, and those homes don't yet have a converter box?

Sure, the chances of that happening are small, but it doesn't take much to skew the ratings in a way that will hurt a station's financial bottom line.

Not this year. Sweeps month was moved to March.

- Trip

One issue about delaying the cutover was stations complaining about the cost of running both analog and digital broadcasts, so some may stop the analog broadcast just for the cost savings.

It didn't take a crystal ball to see this coming... Congress's new mantra: "Leave no analog TV behind" ;)

Not this year. Sweeps month was moved to March.

- Trip

I didn't know that.

Makes sense, though. No station sales manager would want a sweeps month during the first week or two of the transition, just too many variables.

Went to watch the noon news and WCAX HD was just a black screen. Same issue on the HD versions of Ch's 5 22 and 44. No acquiring signal msg or not authorized msg. Just a blank screen. Good signal on TP 13 on sat 61.5. Other HD channels on this sat just fine. Just a E* problem or are DirecTv's HD's locals coming through? Guess its time to call Dish...

I can see the towers 14 miles away at my house and a couple of times I couldn't get a signal on any of the locals OTA, but DishNet still had the feed. I guess there was a power failure on Mt Mansfield, because an hour later everything was back up.

I can see the towers 14 miles away at my house and a couple of times I couldn't get a signal on any of the locals OTA, but DishNet still had the feed. I guess there was a power failure on Mt Mansfield, because an hour later everything was back up.
Just got off the phone with DISH. After a few button pushes the automated response stated that they were aware of the problem. So I'll just have to be patient. ;)

House rejects DTV delay, keeps Feb. switchover

Posted by Stephanie Condon

The national transition to digital television remains on track for a scheduled date of February 17, after the U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday rejected a proposal to delay the switchover.

The House vote of 258 to 168 failed to meet the two-thirds threshold required to pass the measure under the rules the Democratic leadership put in place for Wednesday's debate. The vote comes just two days after the Senate unanimously approved pushing back the transition to June 12. President Obama's advisers have also advocated delaying the transition.

Republicans opposed the delay, saying pushing back the date would create confusion for consumers and burden television stations that would have to continue broadcasting both analog and digital signals.

Proponents of the delay have warned that millions of consumers will be left without television service if the transition is not postponed.

Nielsen reports that more than 6.5 million U.S. households are still not prepared for the transition. Moreover, millions of consumers are still waiting for coupons for digital converter boxes from the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, which ran through the $1.3 billion allocated for the coupons. A Senate panel on Tuesday approved an additional $650 million for the coupon program as part of its so-called "stimulus" package.

John Rockefeller, the Democratic chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, said in a statement after the vote that he was "deeply disappointed" and claimed that the Bush administration "grossly mismanaged" the program.

WPTZ should be ashamed of themselves.

They have the Super Bowl once every 3 years, and yet they still have to drop to SD to do their station ID super, to do their Lottery numbers crawl. At the very time when you should be putting your best foot forward, showcasing your station, they are telling the world how bush league and not ready for prime time they are.

They even did a news promo on their new "Project Economy" series, and it was in SD. Heritage Toyota pays big bucks for a local spot at halftime, and it's a crappy SD look (admittedly, not WPTZ's fault)

What a joke.

Definitely annoying. My friends, who aren't used to HD, asked why the HD went away during those times.

WPTZ should be ashamed of themselves.

They have the Super Bowl once every 3 years, and yet they still have to drop to SD to do their station ID super, to do their Lottery numbers crawl. At the very time when you should be putting your best foot forward, showcasing your station, they are telling the world how bush league and not ready for prime time they are.

They even did a news promo on their new "Project Economy" series, and it was in SD. Heritage Toyota pays big bucks for a local spot at halftime, and it's a crappy SD look (admittedly, not WPTZ's fault)

What a joke.

Even if they can't do HD when they do these local inserts, you'd think they'd be able to keep it widescreen.

For instance, feed the graphics overlay machine an SD signal which is anamorphic widescreen (rather than 4:3), do your overlay, switch that into the HD feed and set the widescreen bit. Sure, the graphics will come out stretched horizontally, but at least the image behind it will stay widescreen.

It seems like they do this all the time. I find it very annoying when they do this. Do they really need to switch the feed from HD to SD to show their station names on the bottom of the screen?

Last week as I was watching Knight Rider, (I know its not a popular show, but I watch it anyway) they must of switched the feed from HD to SD almost every 5-10 minutes. Lottery numbers, breaking news crawl about the digital transition, the station names and locations. It sucks because watching this on the receiver, it switches the audio from 5.1 to 2.0 all the time when they do this. I don't see the other local network station doing this.




WPTZ should be ashamed of themselves.

They have the Super Bowl once every 3 years, and yet they still have to drop to SD to do their station ID super, to do their Lottery numbers crawl. At the very time when you should be putting your best foot forward, showcasing your station, they are telling the world how bush league and not ready for prime time they are.

They even did a news promo on their new "Project Economy" series, and it was in SD. Heritage Toyota pays big bucks for a local spot at halftime, and it's a crappy SD look (admittedly, not WPTZ's fault)

What a joke.

I've heard this commonly referred to as "postage stamp."

I have to say that I'm very surprised that your new TV doesn't have a "Zoom" aspect option that magnifies the image to fill the screen keeping everything in original proportion. I use this one for such broadcasts, admittedly it sometimes trims a small amount at the top and bottom. I will note that on such SD broadcasts it sometimes magnifies how poor the picture quality looks after you've gotten used to the HD signals.

Yes, it is odd, but the zoom setting slightly stretches the image vertically (doesn't maintain aspect ratio). It isn't a lot, so I have used it on occasion. It's almost as if the math for the zoom setting is assuming the tv is 16:9 when it is really 16:10. It's an LG, by the way.

Heads-up! WCAX has filed notice that all Burlington-Plattsburgh stations will shut off analog on February 17th, regardless of whether Congress decides to delay the transition.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=726648

Haha! Take that, Sanders, Leahy, and Welch!

Get ready for even more confusion for folks:
House Approves DTV Delay LegislationBy Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 2/4/2009 1:16:00 PM
Washington — The House of Representatives approved legislation Wednesday, 264-158, to delay the analog cutoff TV date 115 days to June 12, 2009.
The measure, which was identical to a bill passed unanimously by the Senate for a second time, will now be sent to President Obama, who is expected to sign it into law.

Heads-up! WCAX has filed notice that all Burlington-Plattsburgh stations will shut off analog on February 17th, regardless of whether Congress decides to delay the transition.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=726648

Haha! Take that, Sanders, Leahy, and Welch!

WooHoo! I hope Fox 44 and VPT do the same!:D

WooHoo! I hope Fox 44 and VPT do the same!:D

They already filed to say so.

- Trip

Heads-up! WCAX has filed notice that all Burlington-Plattsburgh stations will shut off analog on February 17th, regardless of whether Congress decides to delay the transition.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=726648

Haha! Take that, Sanders, Leahy, and Welch!

LOL!

I'm so glad Congress is taking care of such urgent matters.

:eek:

Any word on WPTZ?

Any word on WPTZ?

They plan to start nightlighting on February 18, then the analog goes away completely in March.

- Trip

Anybody from Starkesboro, Vermont? How is your DTV coverage from Mt. Mansfield?

What is nightlighting?

They plan to start nightlighting on February 18, then the analog goes away completely in March.

- Trip

Nightlighting is keeping an analog transmitter on for one month but showing just a slate saying the transition has happened and what do / where to call to get help.

I think they should only allow WCAX to nightlight, as that analog signal actually comes from the location of the digital transmitters.

The problem with WPTZ is that their analog transmitter is in New York, and they'll be telling their analog viewers in the North Country to get converter boxes to receive WPTZ. This would be misleading since most of them won't be able to get it anymore even with the converter boxes because of the Adirondacks blocking the signals from Vermont.

Hopefully this will lead to a new NBC affiliate in the Watertown/North Country area to go with WWNY (CBS), WWTI (ABC) and WNYF (Fox).

Of course those who have installed UHF or UHF-high VHF antennas will not see the night lighting on ch 3. OTH, they are the ones who are probably digital ready anyway.

I believe the deal with the Mt. Mansfield DTV transition was that the analog towers had to come down after the transition was complete. Does anyone know if they've already scheduled that work for this summer?

I see Mt. Mansfield everyday on my way to work, and WVNY's analog tower is very noticeable. I'm looking forward to seeing the mountain without that appendage.

Heads-up! WCAX has filed notice that all Burlington-Plattsburgh stations will shut off analog on February 17th, regardless of whether Congress decides to delay the transition.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=726648

Haha! Take that, Sanders, Leahy, and Welch!

That notice only states that WCAX, WPTZ and WVNY will go ahead with their plans to terminate their analogue services (except for "nightlighting") on Feb 17. No mention is made, or implied, for the other stations: viz: WETK, WCFE or WFFF.

However, there is a list at www.rabbitears.info, based on FCC info, that states that all of the Mt. Mansfield stations will terminate analogue on Feb 17. However, WCFE is not listed. It is possible that WCFE will continue to broadcast analogue for a while because of the high percentage of their viewers that are antenna-only viewers. I am trying to find out directly from WCFE.

Things would be a lot simpler if each one of the Plattsburgh-Burlington stations were to update their web sites to indicate whether or not they will delay their analogue shutdowns to June or go ahead with their previously announced plans for Feb 17. Their failure to do so has caused far too much confusion.

Last week as I was watching Knight Rider, (I know its not a popular show, but I watch it anyway) they must of switched the feed from HD to SD almost every 5-10 minutes. Lottery numbers, breaking news crawl about the digital transition, the station names and locations. It sucks because watching this on the receiver, it switches the audio from 5.1 to 2.0 all the time when they do this. I don't see the other local network station doing this.

That's been annoying the crap out of me on Knight Rider too, station ID, Vermont lottery, New York lottery, ugh, we get about 10 minutes of actual HD feed.

It's especially bad this time of year when they have school closings displayed in the mornings.

That notice only states that WCAX, WPTZ and WVNY will go ahead with their plans to terminate their analogue services (except for "nightlighting") on Feb 17. No mention is made, or implied, for the other stations: viz: WETK, WCFE or WFFF.

However, there is a list at www.rabbitears.info, based on FCC info, that states that all of the Mt. Mansfield stations will terminate analogue on Feb 17. However, WCFE is not listed. It is possible that WCFE will continue to broadcast analogue for a while because of the high percentage of their viewers that are antenna-only viewers. I am trying to find out directly from WCFE.WCAX, WPTZ, WFFF, WETK, and WVNY are all members of a consortium since they are all co-located atop Mt. Mansfield. The chief engineer for WCAX, Ted Tefner, is also chief engineer for the consortium. So, they all pretty much work in lock-step WRT the DTV transition.

Furthermore, in order to secure permits to build new towers and transmitter on Mt. Mansfield, they had to promise to dismantle the existing analog towers and transmitters after the transition. They're probably obliged to stick with the original time-line or risk fines or something.

WCFE, on the other hand, transmits both its analog and digital signals from the other side of the lake and therefore it is independent of the other Burlington/Plattsburgh region affiliates. I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to go with the analog extension.

WCAX, WPTZ, WFFF, WETK, and WVNY are all members of a consortium since they are all co-located atop Mt. Mansfield. The chief engineer for WCAX, Ted Tefner, is also chief engineer for the consortium. So, they all pretty much work in lock-step WRT the DTV transition.


I was questioning the interpretation of the WCAX filing with the FCC. It does not even imply that all of the stations will shut down their analogue on Feb 17, so it cannot be cited to support the conclusion. Part is factual, but the rest is mere speculation.

Your post is also speculation. It may very well be true, but it is still speculation. Furthermore WFFF's and WPTZ's analogue facilities are on Terry Mountain, so they can act independently of the others without causing problems for the others, if they see fit. As for the dismantling of the old torwers on Mt. Mansfield, I believe that is scheduled to start at the end of June after the bird nesting season, but I could be wrong.

WFFF is now broadcasting scrolling messages that relate specifically to WFFF stating that they will shut down analogue service on Feb 17. Prior to today their messages have always been about analogue TV in general rather than station-specific.

That still leaves WETK and WCFE. I have yet to see anything on-air for either station that indicates they will not delay. I have emailed them both, but have not yet received a response. I suspect WETK will go along with the other Mt. Mansfield stations, but WCFE is another matter.

WCFE has a higher percentage of antenna-only viewers than the other stations, a fact that was hammered home to them when their tower collapsed on April 18, 2007. They need to weigh the extra operating cost associated with delay against the fee-paying audience they will lose, keeping in mind how much that tower collapse strained their purse strings (the insurance only covered about half the cost of erecting a new tower in 2007). But now I am speculating.

As Sgt. Joe Friday used to say: "I just want the facts, maam, nothing but the facts".

Peter Martin, the CEO of WCAX, said, in a news story last night, that all the local stations have agreed to maintain the original cut off date. I can only assume that "local" refers to WCFE also if its designation is in the Burlington, VT market area.
I am going to be working with a friend who does "Meals on Wheels" to try to find folks who are not ready for the change-over and help them through this difficult time. I think that those of us who are savvy with the technology involved should try to find some way to help the folks in our community. I feel guilty that I applied for two coupons at the very start of the process when I really don't need any. Any ideas on how we could help the elderly and house-bound would be appreciated.

There has been a lot of miscommunication, misunderstanding and mismanagement with this project. A lot of folks who applied for the coupons early couldn't find converter boxes before they expired, already had digital TVs or cable/satellite, or bought digital TVs after getting the coupons. Also, there was no income limit and everyone likes free stuff, so the higher income folks got their coupons too.
This left the technically or physically challenged, the confused and the "do I eat or buy a converter box" folks not ready for the cut over. I think that even another delay won't change that much. I would like to see some organization at the local level to help out those who need it. But who pays for converter boxes and antennas for those who can't?

The Broadcasting & Cable story on the main DTV transition thread mentions northern Vermont as one of the few markets who will be first to shut off analog. :)

Kind of ironic, eh, that the last market to turn ON digital will be the first to turn off analog! We managed to get it done with a two year transition (fall 2006 to winter 2009) while the rest of the country is having trouble getting it done with a seven year transition (spring 2002 to spring 2009).

Perhaps folks who have contacts with local churches and other charitable organizations might be able to raise some money for their elderly or disabled member's converter boxes. I'll wait to see how the "Meals on Wheels" initiative works out and report back. Perhaps others, like myself, who have picked up boxes might be willing to donate them to more needy people.
I will never forget the look on the face of a disabled Nam vet after we installed a "C" band dish for him. It was as though we had opened the world for him. There will be some elderly folks who will be distraught after the cut off if their major contact with the outside world disappears. Let's hope we can help at least some of them.
If Washington can't get this right, I fear to imagine what the "stimulus package" will look like.

The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill
President Obama wants to hear what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

I posted this on a Canadian forum about our market which FraserR from WCAX responds to from time to time. For general information for those of you using Directv receivers to watch WCAX OTA:

FraserR, is there a plan for someone at the station to contact Tribune Media Services (zap2it) and notify them of the physical channel switch on the 18th?

Although a bit obscure, unless this is done no one using a DirecTV HR20-100/700 receiver to watch/DVR Ch 3 over the air (not via satellilte uplink/downlink) will be able to receive it. This is because the Directv units do not permit a scan but rather rely on physical channel information sent down from the guide maintained by Tribune Media. As other stations around the country have switched frequencies, this has been a major problem taking weeks to get resolved with lots of finger pointing between the stations, Tribune Media and Directv. I have lots of shows queued up to record and would hate to miss them after the 17th. (I'm not sure if this affects Dish receivers also or if they do permit a scan).

The Dishnet receivers can be rescanned.

The Dishnet receivers can be rescanned.Or you don't even have to scan. I'm planning to manually punch in ch22 as a DTV frequency so I'll ready to go as soon as it powers up (although I'm sure I'll have to do something else to tell the reciever that virtual channel 3 has moved frequencies from ch53 to ch22 to get the EPG to do the right thing).

I'm glad the Dish receivers do permit a rescan/direct tune. It will make the switch easy to do even if the EPG data doesn't follow for a while. With my unit I can't record the Montreal channels - 2.1, 6.1 and 17.1 just don't exist. There is a trick which involves finding a second zip code which does have those channels but I haven't bothered yet as reception is hit and miss until they move the towers to Mt. Royal in September.

BREAKING NEWS... it seems WFFF-TV has missed the deadline to file their analog shut-off request. It was supposed to be file its request by end of day February 9th, but it looks like it was only filed on February 10th! As a result, the list of stations just released by the FCC has WFFF listed as the ONLY station in Burlington-Plattsburgh to remain in analog after February 17th.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...A-09-221A5.pdf

BREAKING NEWS... it seems WFFF-TV has missed the deadline to file their analog shut-off request. It was supposed to be file its request by end of day February 9th, but it looks like it was only filed on February 10th! As a result, the list of stations just released by the FCC has WFFF listed as the ONLY station in Burlington-Plattsburgh to remain in analog after February 17th.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...A-09-221A5.pdf

WFFF didn't miss the deadline, they just filed the wrong form. From reading it, they are currently only licensed digitally and operate analog under STA (I didn't know this). As such, the FCC's electronic system wouldn't let them file the correct form.

I think they'll still be killing analog on February 17.

- Trip

This was posted from FraserR, WCAX tech, on a Canadian forum:

"The transition has begun. A little before 9 am Tuesday morning, 10 Feb, we reduced the WCAX OTA ch 53 to about 10 % power, and the WPTZ signal is also at reduced power. We have begun to remove the ch 53 specific pieces. Soon a transmitter guy will retune our system to ch 22 for the 17 FEB date.

HD bruce, I passed along the note about MEDIA services, thank you, they were not on the call list yet."

For those of you interested, this comes from the Montreal, Plattsburgh, Burlington forum on Digital Home in Canada. It is focused on reception in and around Montreal but has quite a bit of chatter about the Burlington stations. It can be found at: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=51210&page=65

Does this mean we will have trouble receiving the digital broadcast for a week because of reduced power?

WFFF didn't miss the deadline, they just filed the wrong form. From reading it, they are currently only licensed digitally and operate analog under STA (I didn't know this). As such, the FCC's electronic system wouldn't let them file the correct form.

I think they'll still be killing analog on February 17.

- Trip

I think so, to. If you dig deeper into the FCC's CBDS database, under 'station status', you'll see that there is a Silrnt authority approved effective Feb 17. The wierd part is that the service is DT (ie digital), not TV (ie analog).

I think so, to. If you dig deeper into the FCC's CBDS database, under 'station status', you'll see that there is a Silrnt authority approved effective Feb 17. The wierd part is that the service is DT (ie digital), not TV (ie analog).

Right, that's what I was saying. It's strange and I wonder how it came about. If I had the time I'd dig into it, but I don't so I'll go on wondering until my workload lightens. :)

- Trip

This was posted from FraserR, WCAX tech, on a Canadian forum:

"The transition has begun. A little before 9 am Tuesday morning, 10 Feb, we reduced the WCAX OTA ch 53 to about 10 % power, and the WPTZ signal is also at reduced power. We have begun to remove the ch 53 specific pieces. Soon a transmitter guy will retune our system to ch 22 for the 17 FEB date.
What's the reason for cutting back the power on ch53? Is it because they're going to have people in the vicinity retuning the transmitter?

As I understand it, they are taking about 1/2 of the transmitter electronics offline to convert to Ch22. Once the cutover is made, that set of electronics will be used while the other half is modified for Ch22, then they will come up to full power.

At the same time there are "tuning" adjustments that have to be made to the physical structure of the antenna itself. The later is the reason that WPTZ has lowered its power--so as not to fry the technicians working on the physical changes.

At the same time there are "tuning" adjustments that have to be made to the physical structure of the antenna itself. The later is the reason that WPTZ has lowered its power--so as not to fry the technicians working on the physical changes.Wow. They have work crews on top of Mt. Mansfield in February? That's got to be some bone-chilling, scary-a** work on a snow- and ice-covered tower.

The signal level for WCAX-DT at my location increased when they are reporting that they have reduced power output to 10%.

WCFE and WETK approved, WCAX, WPTZ and WVNY DENIED! Unsure about WFFF.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A2.pdf

Stations have until tomorrow to re-apply, and must accept a bunch of extra conditions (one will have to nightlight for 60 days instead of 30... likely WCAX, nightlight slate must have educational info, voice-over for the blind, etc).

I don't really care about WPTZ and WFFF shutting off (although it would be in the better public interest for people to become used to where the new transmitters are), but if they deny WVNY we're all screwed!

WCFE and WETK approved, WCAX, WPTZ and WVNY DENIED! Unsure about WFFF.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-7A2.pdf

Stations have until tomorrow to re-apply, and must accept a bunch of extra conditions (one will have to nightlight for 60 days instead of 30... likely WCAX, nightlight slate must have educational info, voice-over for the blind, etc).

I don't really care about WPTZ and WFFF shutting off (although it would be in the better public interest for people to become used to where the new transmitters are), but if they deny WVNY we're all screwed!Seems to me the local stations shouldn't have too much trouble meeting the FCCs additional requirements.

Just saw this...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29127098/

If Hawaii can get away with an early transition because of nesting season, maybe VT can, too.

Geeze, talk about DTV drama! Does anyone have a further update? I really appreciate the insight some have on the engineering problems. I don't understand how WCAX moves if WVNY is still on channel 22.
My signal strength for WPTZ has fallen by almost 30% while the others remain virtually unchanged.

Geeze, talk about DTV drama! Does anyone have a further update? I really appreciate the insight some have on the engineering problems. I don't understand how WCAX moves if WVNY is still on channel 22.
My signal strength for WPTZ has fallen by almost 30% while the others remain virtually unchanged.Speaking of that, I can't get WVNY-DT worth a darn lately. They must have all dialed back their power in preparation for the switchover.

This was posted by FraseR (WCAX tech) at 12:04PM today on the Canadian forum. It strongly suggests that the FCC conditions will be met (or ignored).


"The stage is set, all the players are in place, the show will go on. It has to go on, our system is beyond the point of no return.

At this time all the conditions are being met to allow the 17 Feb transition to occur. The banners, informational spots and such are part of that.

Overnight 17 Feb 09, ch 22 will shut off thier analog, ch 3 analog and ch 5 analog will start to broadcast night life service info, for 60 days. 5.1 will already be back up to full power. 3.1 will come up on it's new OTA ch (remember to rescan), at 1/2 power (which will deliver more signal than OTA 53 did at full power). Finally, a week later the 3.1 signal will be up to it's full power (by 1 MAR.). The exact time for shutoff is not easy to predict, but if you start recording just before midnight, with a long tape you might catch it.

Yagi (post 982) WFFF is still at full power.

It is interesting that more moisture in the air seems to be helping some of you get more signal.

Things are hopping around here, between the work and the phone calls, there is never a dull moment."

if you start recording just before midnight, with a long tape you might catch it.

People still use tapes? :eek:

Well, if you want a souvenir recording of the analog shut-off to be truly a relic of the analog days might as well use tape... :)

Oh and it's official now that the transition has been approved for Tuesday: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-245A2.pdf

This would seem to leave WETK staying analog although they indicate that they'll follow their friends on Mt Mansfield to digital on the 17th. Frankly, I can't wait for all of this change-talk to end once and for all. It's like not having to hear a phrase like "president-elect" anymore.
Now let's hope that the local broadcasters finally put aside some bucks for logo inserters that don't drop the HD signal to SD.

Now let's hope that the local broadcasters finally put aside some bucks for logo inserters that don't drop the HD signal to SD.

I noticed last week that WCAX is now able to insert station ID's and crawls without dropping into SD. Let's hope the rest of the stations follow close behind.

Well, if you want a souvenir recording of the analog shut-off to be truly a relic of the analog days might as well use tape... :)

Yeah, and if you want to make a phone call, you might as well use a rotary dial phone. :D

Yes, it's very nice to see WCAX do a direct insert of the crawl into a HD show without dropping back to a SD picture. I admire them for continuing to invest; they are truly a quality operation. Perhaps this is the piece of equipment which will also permit them to record and air syndicated shows in HD. It was mentioned a few months ago that it was on order. (Maybe if we took up a collection for WPTZ....)

I used to work for WCAX back in the 60's and they were always intent on providing the best possible signal produced by the best possible equipment. The original owner, Red Martin, was an engineer of remarkable accomplishments. It was said that he had a good deal to do with the development of the Norton bombsight...the apparatus which certainly helped America during WWII.
Interestingly enough, they are, I believe, the only family-owned local television station left in the country. Even though they have had to lay off people for the first time in their history, there continues to be a dedication to excellence at Channel 3 that is found nowhere else in our market. Other broadcasters might beat them in the market with technical innovation (color, HD, etc.) but WCAX always waited for proven technology and implemented it with grace and style. In contrast with that, WPTZ ( owned by the powerhouse Hearst-Argyle conglomerate) seems incapable of getting corporate to even recognize that they exist--much less spend some cash here. The signal company ownership of both WFFF and WVNY only begs the question of "does competition help spread excellence?" Not so much in their case to my mind.
I can remember with great interest talking to the engineers at the WCAX tower during the winter months. At times they would be trapped by the weather for days up on the mountain. I can't imagine what a difficult time it has been to change out antenna parts considering the temperatures here the past few weeks. I think that the engineers for all of the stations deserve applause. May the change-over go smoothly....

Does anyone know WPTZ long term plans? Are they going to keep the digtal tower on Mt Mansfield or will they move it to NY to replace the analog tower?

So it looks like the big four in Burlinton did get the OK from the FCC the second time around. It wil be interesting few days until everything gets worked out. Too bad because now that Ch 3 is at reduced power I get it great, was a little iffy before. I just hope that once they are on 22 it will be just as good as 5 and 44 for me.

WPTZ will stay on Mansfield for sure. It would really be annoying for everyone in the Champlain Valley to have to turn their antennas just to watch NBC.

To serve the North Country and points west, I think it would be great if they could all have directional translators pointing west from Lyon Mountain where WCFE is. They would then reach all the way to Ottawa.

Does anyone think that once the transition is complete the stations will change "names" (ie. WCAX 22)?

Does anyone think that once the transition is complete the stations will change "names" (ie. WCAX 22)?

No. Stations are required to put their analog channel numbers on the receivers, so you find WCAX at 3-1. No reason to change the branding.

- Trip

Unfortunately stations are so used to their "branding" by channel numbers that they'll continue to use PSIP for as long as they can.

Where it bothers me is when a station re-maps to a channel that is now being used by someone else (WVNY). I would prefer if they start identifying themselves as ABC-13 since there will be someone else on 22. I still don't know how this will affect some older tuners in which you can manually enter the physical channel directly and it will automatically tune and memorize the channel. Will pressing 22 make 22.1 show up or will it re-map to 3.1?

On another issue, how are the warning scrolls today on the different stations today? Unfortunately I'm in an area where I can only monitor WCFE today, but so far their scroll hasn't been great... just small yellow text with no background and written in a way that doesn't really convey the urgency as it should. All stuff about "converting to digital" but nothing explicit as "THIS SIGNAL WILL BE SHUTTING-OFF PERMANENTLY AT MIDNIGHT TONIGHT!"

Can PSIP remapping be reviewed at some point? I think there should be exceptions made for stations with an old analog channel number that is out of core (WCFE-57 in Plattsburgh, WWJ-62 in Detroit, etc) and for stations whose previous allocation has been abandoned and taken over by another station (WVNY).

99.9% of people do not care where a station is physically, as long as they can find it. Nothing's changing on the PSIP front. Even if the FCC changes the rules, WCAX isn't going to want to give up the 3-1 mapping because people have been identifying "channel 3" with WCAX for something like 50 years.

- Trip

I don't mind WCAX staying as "Channel 3", I just don't like WVNY continuing to call itself "ABC 22".

I can't wait to see the frontpage of the BFP in the next few days. Any bets they will show some poor soul sitting on the couch with their remote looking at a blank screen. I feel for them but I'm glad this is coming to an end. :o

Only 5 minutes, I'm flipping through the analogs awaiting midnight :)

It looks like only Vermont PBS got the message it's no longer February 17th

Mountain Lake PBS shut down at 11:59:56, no announcements or anything... just cut-off the guest on Charlie Rose. Psssssshhhhhhhhh...

So are the others still on the air? I have a timer set for WVNY until 12:15. They better shut down before then!

WVNY had a nice sign off at 12:06 with an announcement after Nightline ended. WCAX and WNNE are still on. I don't get WPTZ or WFFF so I have no idea about those. I'm guessing channel 3 will go to night lighting at 12:36.

So far....

WCFE: off at 11:59:56 PM
WETK and WVTA: DTV Info tape at 12:00 AM
WVNY: off at 12:06 AM
WCAX Channel 53: off at 12:37 AM
WPTZ and WNNE: DTV Info Tape at 12:37 AM
WFFF: Unknown
WCAX-DT expected to return on 22 at 1:35 AM
WCAX on channel 3 will likely go off then
WVTB is still showing normal programming

It's ironic that the only way one can watch The Late Late Show now is via WCAX's analog channel.

WCAX-DT on channel 22 came on at 1:41 am. Very strong signal.

WCAX analogue was still on, showin King of Queens when I turned off my TV at 1:57 am.

P.S. to habscolts: The Late Late Show is also on Channel 62 (E!) in Montreal.