Yes, I forget about Canada....even down here, WRGB has a 2 fold problem with their boost to 30.2 KW...they have to clear domestic issues with the FCC regarding interference with the other channel 6's and Mr. Lass indicates there hasn't been a clearence from Canada yet either. I thought it was an issue with CJOH 6, but I don't remember for sure.
When I saw the 2002 petition for WVNY to move from 16 to 13, the "not moving anytime soon" thought did flash my mind...oh well, I'll have to deal with two 13's and two 43's.

I feel your pain

I am amazed at how good RF14 "bends" to my location, it is rock solid all the time. RF22 I do receive some of the time but usually very poorly. The rest of the broadcasts from Mansfield are real real spotty. PBS, sometimes, ABC once in awhile, Fox I have seen once. Ironically the PBS repeater on Granpas Knob is probably only 15 miles from me, and broadcasts on RF9, and I have never been able to get any signal lock. I have a fairly large hill East that blocks signals from the Norths East as well as the South East (as do many of us across this State). But my South West exposure is great.

The Canadians have already approved a few allotments on Mount Mansfield:

Channel 3: 822m 4 kW
Channel 33: 815m 47 kW
Channel 44: 840m 49 kW

None of those allotments are particularly amazing, though I would think that if WVNY wanted to move to 44 that might make sense if there's still a 44 antenna up there from WFFF's analog.

- Trip

Actually there was never a WFFF analog transmitter on Mt. Mansfield, despite the FCC records. Their old transmitter was always located with WPTZ's former analog transmitter on Terry Mountain in Peru, NY.

I do think they should move to 44 though. Even a 2kw signal on UHF will be easier to receive than any VHF signal. I had no problem getting WFFF during their 18kw STA at only 30 feet on the tower. According to their predictions it would only reach St. Albans, yet it still pegged the meters in Montreal. If you have line-of-sight and no interference you barely need any power at all.

There should also be some way of combining the same UHF antenna for both 43 and 44. They could then WFFF back on the real channel 44 and start branding WVNY as ABC-43 with no PSIP remaps. It's so stupid to keep calling it ABC-22 when CBS is actually broadcasting on 22. I don't care about remapping as long as they aren't mapping to a channel that becomes used by someone else. That's where they should draw the line. It's not too bad in this case since WCAX can continue re-mapping as "Channel 3", but what would have happened if an all-new station would have launched on channel 22? What would they be able to brand itself as (or re-map to)?

It's not too bad in this case since WCAX can continue re-mapping as "Channel 3", but what would have happened if an all-new station would have launched on channel 22? What would they be able to brand itself as (or re-map to)?

It would map to 13-1.

- Trip

Yes, I forget about Canada....even down here, WRGB has a 2 fold problem with their boost to 30.2 KW...they have to clear domestic issues with the FCC regarding interference with the other channel 6's and Mr. Lass indicates there hasn't been a clearence from Canada yet either. I thought it was an issue with CJOH 6, but I don't remember for sure.


It would likely be CIII's repeater on channel 6 in Ottawa. They plan to keep using channel 6 for DTV post-transition. It is physically blocked by the Adirondacks though, so there's no way the two signals would interfere with each other. The more serious one would be CBMT analog on channel 6 in Montreal, but it is shutting down in August 2011 and won't be used again. Also, I find it amusing to see all this interference protection for stations so far apart (even in the U.S.), yet they allow channel 7 to be used by both WXXA (Fox) in Albany and WABC in New York City. They're only 2 hours apart! How can anyone in Poughkeepsie get a reliable Fox or ABC signal?

Actually there was never a WFFF analog transmitter on Mt. Mansfield, despite the FCC records.

That may be true BUT there WAS a Construction Permit for analog 44 on Mansfield, so therefor, 44 was alloted to Mt Mansfield.

Remember The FCC would have never issued a CP, unless the 44 allotment for Mansfield was approved by the CTRC.

Yeah, there was a CP that was there for 12 years but was never used. Trip's post was about using WFFF using the antenna and transmitter they already had up there, but I was just pointing out that it wasn't there. It would have to be a brand-new installation.

I feel your pain

I am amazed at how good RF14 "bends" to my location, it is rock solid all the time. RF22 I do receive some of the time but usually very poorly. The rest of the broadcasts from Mansfield are real real spotty. PBS, sometimes, ABC once in awhile, Fox I have seen once. Ironically the PBS repeater on Granpas Knob is probably only 15 miles from me, and broadcasts on RF9, and I have never been able to get any signal lock. I have a fairly large hill East that blocks signals from the Norths East as well as the South East (as do many of us across this State). But my South West exposure is great.

PBS RF 9 is probably my strongest station, I usually receive it off the back of the beams when pointed at Albany at about 50%....pointed right at Rutland it's a 98%.

Originally Posted by kb2fzq
Yes, I forget about Canada....even down here, WRGB has a 2 fold problem with their boost to 30.2 KW...they have to clear domestic issues with the FCC regarding interference with the other channel 6's and Mr. Lass indicates there hasn't been a clearence from Canada yet either. I thought it was an issue with CJOH 6, but I don't remember for sure.


It would likely be CIII's repeater on channel 6 in Ottawa. They plan to keep using channel 6 for DTV post-transition. It is physically blocked by the Adirondacks though, so there's no way the two signals would interfere with each other. The more serious one would be CBMT analog on channel 6 in Montreal, but it is shutting down in August 2011 and won't be used again.

Here's a quote from the CBS6Albany forum, from Fred Lass, chief engineer at WRGB, regarding Canadian power approvals:
"Finally, the application to run 30.2 KW has been in the hopper with Canada since we applied for 30.2 KW back in June. The potential interference is to CJOH. CTV has asked the CRTC to shut down CJOH's analog signal on August 31, 2009. Canadian coordination for WCWN's antenna modifications took about 13 months. There's nothing to be gained by questioning the process."
We were apparently having a heated debate at the time regarding the switch from chan 39 to chan 6 and the 30.2 kw power boost.
I checked the CTV website shortly after Fred's comment, where it indicated the CTV GM was not going to renew the CJOH analog license after it expired on Aug. 31, 2009, yet a poster at the WRGB forum indicated that he heard the CJOH audio on 87.7 FM (the channel 6 TV audio in analog) during a tropo duct some time in late September, early October. This might indicate that CJOH is still up, blocking WRGB's attempt to raise power. Their power boost may not occur until 2011, when Canada transitions to digital. And maybe not even then.

Oh, now I see. It's a CJOH repeater in the Desoronto/Kingston area that on analog channel 6. It will vacate channel 6 and operate on UHF channel 49 post-transition though.

Oh, now I see. It's a CJOH repeater in the Desoronto/Kingston area that on analog channel 6. It will vacate channel 6 and operate on UHF channel 49 post-transition though.

Yes, that is what's concerning those that are having problems receiving WRGB 6 down here....initially, the bump to 30.2 kw was supposed to help those with issues, and it was supposed to happen relatively quickly. Even if WRGB makes peace with WEDY (the station WRGB would interfere with at 30.2 KW), they may have to wait until Aug, 31, 2011 to bump power when CJOH vacates chan 6. WRGB has a simulcast running on chan 45-3 (WCWN), so people are not without WRGB programming, but it's only SD. I am trying to find out from the Rochester forum if CJOH is indeed still broadcasting, but I haven't gotten a response yet. According to FCC records, CJOH is still licensed, but that may be misleading as it's probably not accurate being it's Canada. I don't have a problem receiving WRGB, but many still do.

Hey, Before fox 44 upgraded it's newscast to an hour on September 7, 2009, did they used the 10 minute advantage promo in the summer of 2009 before it was lauched on that date? and did they use the same gospely music and same gospely lyrics: "You need 10 minutes, Ooooh You need 10 minutes!" like that that fox 44 and abc 22 is curently doing now, if anyone can help me out this, I'll be glad to.

Remember The FCC would have never issued a CP, unless the 44 allotment for Mansfield was approved by the CTRC.

Just a small correction -- the CRTC does not handle frequency coordination (or any RF technical issues at all.) That's all done by the Spectrum Management Branch of Industry Canada.

If you want to post-transition allotments for American cities near the Canadian border, check out the MOA between Industry Canada and the FCC. It's on the Industry Canada website at:http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/SMBR-005-08-FCC_to_IC_letter_Dec08_e.pdf/$FILE/SMBR-005-08-FCC_to_IC_letter_Dec08_e.pdf

The Canadian post transition plan is at: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/DTV_PLAN_Dec08-e.pdf/$file/DTV_PLAN_Dec08-e.pdf

[QUOTE=foxfan;17645839]Yeah, there was a CP that was there for 12 years but was never used. Trip's post was about using WFFF using the antenna and transmitter they already had up there, but I was just pointing out that it wasn't there. It would have to be a brand-new installation.[/QUOTE

And if it had been there, it would have been torn down by now, like all the other analog TV towers on Mansfield.

But that doesn't preclude combining a new 44 transmitter onto the existing 43 antenna.

I am trying to find out from the Rochester forum if CJOH is indeed still broadcasting, but I haven't gotten a response yet. According to FCC records, CJOH is still licensed, but that may be misleading as it's probably not accurate being it's Canada. I don't have a problem receiving WRGB, but many still do.

The CRTC just ignored CTV's bluff, and renewed CJOH-TV-6 and CJOH-TV-8 untill August 2011. AFAIK, they're both still broadcasting. There is no guarantee, though, that they will make the transtion to digital, as they are not in the 29 core markets that are required to be in digital post 2011. They amy just shut down.

But all this is just idle speculation, and there now appears to be talk in Spectrum Management circles up here of postponing the transition, if for no other reason that it's would be pretty hard for everyone to transition at the same time, given the nuber of flash cuts planned.

The CRTC just ignored CTV's bluff, and renewed CJOH-TV-6 and CJOH-TV-8 untill August 2011. AFAIK, they're both still broadcasting. There is no guarantee, though, that they will make the transtion to digital, as they are not in the 29 core markets that are required to be in digital post 2011. They amy just shut down.

But all this is just idle speculation, and there now appears to be talk in Spectrum Management circles up here of postponing the transition, if for no other reason that it's would be pretty hard for everyone to transition at the same time, given the nuber of flash cuts planned.

Thanks tvlurker...that's what I was looking for.

[QUOTE=foxfan;17645839]And if it had been there, it would have been torn down by now, like all the other analog TV towers on Mansfield.I'm pretty sure the analog towers are still there. I can see them looking out my window. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't come down this summer. Too close to the transition?

I'm pretty sure the analog towers are still there. I can see them looking out my window.

UPDATED:
Here is the status.
WCAX's analog tower is gone.
WETK's analog antenna is gone by the tower still stands.
WVNY's analog tower still stands but will be removed in the Spring/Summer of 2010.

Just a small correction -- the CRTC does not handle frequency coordination (or any RF technical issues at all.) That's all done by the Spectrum Management Branch of Industry Canada.


Thank you for the correction on that one! I can attest I know a lot less about the Canadian allotmet/ruling system than ours here in the USA.

With all the problems people have been posting concerning WVNY-DT, WFFF-DT and a few other stations in the area concerning their channel allotment. Could US residents on this thread e-mail a complaint to the FCC? Up here in Montreal, people are having problems with WVNY using RF13. But, can we really complain to the FCC that Canadian residents can't get the ABC affiliate. Not really. The station is suppose to serve it's US residents. But, it is clear from other posts that even US residents are having problems with US channels.

I personally thing that the best way to get this all straightened out is if US residents e-mail a complaint to the FCC about reception problems. I knew about the RF13 use by WVNY was a problem. But I was surprised that RF43 is also being used by another station in Albany,NY. This explains why WFFF-DT is only pumping out 47kw.

If WFFF-DT wants to re-map as 44, then the FCC should require them to us RF44. I think this whole re-map use is causing some of the problems. It gives the illusion that stations can use any RF channel and re-map to their old analog channel number. But the old analog channel is dead. They need to be forced by the FCC to id as their new channel.

I contacted WVNY after the transition asking that they reconsider returning to the channel 16 allotment originally given by the FCC. At that time even some of the bigest stations (WHDH, Boston for example) were admitting their error in selecting an old RF channel and petitioning the FCC for a return to the original designation. WVNY sent a terse reply saying that they had no intention of changing. Frankly, I can't imagine the FCC mandating a change unless the local station wanted it. I hope I am wrong.

I would agree that a move off VHF would be great as it seems ridiculous that the people caught between these broadcasters, (rf13 and rf43) in my case, are denied both. But I wonder just how much they care as it seems to me that they cover the Burlington/Plattsburgh market off air pretty well, and that is where the vast majority of the population lies. Advertising revenue as well. They seem to be happy lighting up the cable head ends and of course the satellite carriers have them as well.
With that said, as a native Vermonter of 57 years I was raised with 3 and 5 as the only local ch's (22 and 33 came later with a separate uhf converter) and 2,6,10,and 12 from Montreal when we added a roter and a very large antenna. I moved to Central VT and off air was quite bad! 3,5 and 44 were about it, and then poorly. I installed a C band 10 foot dish but had to get waviers for the networks and then only a couple were available. The maintenance, and only one tv made this a problem at times, but when you live in the country, and no cable TV, you make due. I now have Dish network HD, 3 TV's, and all the locals except VT PBS. Off air I get 2 NY PBS's,all the Albany networks including CW most of the time (rf43), and all the associated streams. I get more TV than I ever had in my life including cable. Hard for me to complain to much! Now these off air signals did not come easy,(but what worth having does?) Large,expensive,and kind of complex antenna system.
Are the Vermont locals available on Cable in Montreal? It seems like there used to be more advertising targeting that market than there is now. Is that just me or has anyone else noticed that?

The local market, I think, is all that really motivates the stations....they don't care if I get an advertisement from Barney's Subs, some 91 miles away...they want that hungry guy in downrown Plattsburgh to get the ad. So to expect them to make, what may be a big dollar channel change, to please those outside of the immediate market, would be ludicrious. Nothing will change unless their immediate market is impacted, then and only then will the checkbook come out, complaints and e-mails or not.

Ref. Post #3774

Just a few points.

1 - Most of the Burlington/Plattsburgh channels are available on Montreal Cable. No sub-channels though.

2 - There use to be more Montreal ads on the Burlington/Plattsburgh channels. But that has changed. Not because people north of the border are not watching WCAX,WPTZ,WFFF,WVNY etc. But because of a government policy set by the CRTC (Canada's equivalent to the FCC) called Simsub. What this means is that if a Canadian station runs the same program as a US station at the same time, then the cable and sat companies must place the Canadian stations' signal over the US stations' signal for the duration of the show. Example. If WCAX is running CSI at 8pm. And CFCF is running CSI at 8pm. The cable viewer will see the signal of CFCF on the WCAX signal. Because of this, Canadian advertisers will not be able to get their message even to Canadian viewers if they advertised on WCAX. Many Canadians hate this policy. You have no idea what a mess watching the Super Bowl is up here. We get none of those million dollar ads. Unless of course if you get your signals over the air with an antenna. If you do this, you bypass the simsub rule. And you save on cable and sat subscriptions. So, it's for this reason that I would think that WVNY and WFFF would try their best to get there signals into Montreal over the air. And at the same time, they even help viewers in the US by providing a stronger signal to cover Eastern Vermont, Northern NH, and North Eastern NY.

So, I really think that viewers on both sides of the border would benefit. The stations would benefit because the involvement of the middleman (Cable/Sat) would be cut down. No simsub rules in Canada effecting their ad revenues. But, it would take US residents to complain about weak signals in the US to the FCC for somehing to be done. We up here in Canada have enough problems getting our own CRTC/Industry Canada to even listen to us.

Ref. Post #3774

Just a few points.

1 - Most of the Burlington/Plattsburgh channels are available on Montreal Cable. No sub-channels though.

2 - There use to be more Montreal ads on the Burlington/Plattsburgh channels. But that has changed. Not because people north of the border are not watching WCAX,WPTZ,WFFF,WVNY etc. But because of a government policy set by the CRTC (Canada's equivalent to the FCC) called Simsub. What this means is that if a Canadian station runs the same program as a US station at the same time, then the cable and sat companies must place the Canadian stations' signal over the US stations' signal for the duration of the show. Example. If WCAX is running CSI at 8pm. And CFCF is running CSI at 8pm. The cable viewer will see the signal of CFCF on the WCAX signal. Because of this, Canadian advertisers will not be able to get their message even to Canadian viewers if they advertised on WCAX. Many Canadians hate this policy. You have no idea what a mess watching the Super Bowl is up here. We get none of those million dollar ads. Unless of course if you get your signals over the air with an antenna. If you do this, you bypass the simsub rule. And you save on cable and sat subscriptions. So, it's for this reason that I would think that WVNY and WFFF would try their best to get there signals into Montreal over the air. And at the same time, they even help viewers in the US by providing a stronger signal to cover Eastern Vermont, Northern NH, and North Eastern NY.

So, I really think that viewers on both sides of the border would benefit. The stations would benefit because the involvement of the middleman (Cable/Sat) would be cut down. No simsub rules in Canada effecting their ad revenues. But, it would take US residents to complain about weak signals in the US to the FCC for somehing to be done. We up here in Canada have enough problems getting our own CRTC/Industry Canada to even listen to us.

A few points:

- advertising on American border stations where the target market is in Canada is NOT a tax deductible business expense for a Canadian company
- Canadian viewership on American stations does NOT count towards the American station's ratings, and consequently does not affect their rates. (It does help sell otherwise unsold inventory.)
- Bell TV and Bell-owned VDN Cable (a Montreal cable company servicing apartments and condos, mostly) now carry Boston commercial locals rather than VT-NY commercial locals. (They both still carry VPT and Mountain Lake PBS). Videotron, the dominant cable company in Montreal, still carries WCAX,WPTZ,WVNY, and WFFF.

So even if the OTA penetration rate goes up in Montreal, it's not clear how much of an impact this will have the American stations fortunes.

Also, I'm pretty sure if WFFF set up a sales office in Canada, it would lose the privilege to be carried on Canadian cable. I'm not sure about WVNY, but I'm pretty sure WCAX and WPTZ are grandfathered.

Please don't flame me for not paying attention, but I've gone back through about 35 pages of this thread to find some help. As of now I haven't found what I wanted so I guess I'll pose it as a question. I'm currently subscribed to Comcast with the digital package and HD. I have a DVR box for only one of my televisions, Samsung LN40b550. I have two others that are HD capable with tuners in them. Those two tvs have cable running in to them. One is a 19" Toshiba not sure the model number but it's got built in DVD, the other is a 40" Samsung LN40a550.

I do live on a hill, in Montpelier, and have a pretty straight view of Camel's Hump as well as Mansfield. We are up out of the valley quite a bit on route 12 headed towards Northfield. What I'm experiencing is that I have several broadcasts coming across a channel. For instance, I have two different channel 5s. If I'm just channel surfing I then experience 004, 005, 005, 005-2. I don't understand how that can be, but I'm also experiencing that on a few other locations, maybe channel 33. I do not have any other antennas. And so far I only can confirm this is happening on the Toshiba. I haven't verified this on the other Samsung yet, but will try to soon. Is this Comcast doing this or is this my tv actually picking up OTA without an antenna (can the cable itself function as an antenna?)

Is there a channel list anywhere out there that I can use to help me figure out what all these subchannels are? Or what the real mapping of channels is? Comcast is partially correct, but then I get in to all these other issues like several broadcasts coming in across the same channel. I believe I have at least 3 occurences of that so far as I've been writing down what's what on a pad of paper to figure it out.

Please don't flame me for not paying attention, but I've gone back through about 35 pages of this thread to find some help. As of now I haven't found what I wanted so I guess I'll pose it as a question. I'm currently subscribed to Comcast with the digital package and HD. I have a DVR box for only one of my televisions, Samsung LN40b550. I have two others that are HD capable with tuners in them. Those two tvs have cable running in to them. One is a 19" Toshiba not sure the model number but it's got built in DVD, the other is a 40" Samsung LN40a550.

I do live on a hill, in Montpelier, and have a pretty straight view of Camel's Hump as well as Mansfield. We are up out of the valley quite a bit on route 12 headed towards Northfield. What I'm experiencing is that I have several broadcasts coming across a channel. For instance, I have two different channel 5s. If I'm just channel surfing I then experience 004, 005, 005, 005-2. I don't understand how that can be, but I'm also experiencing that on a few other locations, maybe channel 33. I do not have any other antennas. And so far I only can confirm this is happening on the Toshiba. I haven't verified this on the other Samsung yet, but will try to soon. Is this Comcast doing this or is this my tv actually picking up OTA without an antenna (can the cable itself function as an antenna?)

Is there a channel list anywhere out there that I can use to help me figure out what all these subchannels are? Or what the real mapping of channels is? Comcast is partially correct, but then I get in to all these other issues like several broadcasts coming in across the same channel. I believe I have at least 3 occurences of that so far as I've been writing down what's what on a pad of paper to figure it out.

http://whereishd.com/ type in 05602 and the channels should show up in Local Broadcast

Or

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCGrid.do?method=decideFwdForLineup&zipcode=05602&setMyPreference=false&lineupId=PC:05602

Or

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlistings/ZCGrid.do?method=decideFwdForLineup&zipcode=05602&setMyPreference=false&lineupId=VT44410:X
Alex.

I do live on a hill, in Montpelier, and have a pretty straight view of Camel's Hump as well as Mansfield. We are up out of the valley quite a bit on route 12 headed towards Northfield. What I'm experiencing is that I have several broadcasts coming across a channel. For instance, I have two different channel 5s. If I'm just channel surfing I then experience 004, 005, 005, 005-2. I don't understand how that can be, but I'm also experiencing that on a few other locations, maybe channel 33. I do not have any other antennas. And so far I only can confirm this is happening on the Toshiba. I haven't verified this on the other Samsung yet, but will try to soon. Is this Comcast doing this or is this my tv actually picking up OTA without an antenna (can the cable itself function as an antenna?)My guess is that one of the 005's is an analog version of the channel that Comcast provides for customers with Basic cable and old-fashioned analog TVs. The second 005 is probably the "main" channel 5 in HDTV. 005-2 is probably the channel 5 subchannel that they use as mainly a local weather and news channel.

My HDTV, a 32" Sceptre LCD, provides a little more info when I use the built-in tuner. For example, it will say "5-CATV" for analog channel 5 over cable, "5-TV" for analog channel 5 over-the-air (which no longer exists), or "5.x-DTV" for HDTV channel 5 either over-the-air (ATSC) or over cable (QAM).

I doubt very much you are getting any kind of over-the-air signal if you're connected up to cable. Cable operators have very strict requirements when it comes to "leaks" (if an OTA signal is getting IN to the cable, then it means their signal is getting OUT of the cable, which is an FCC violation).

Come to think of it, one usually has to configure one's HDTV as either hooked to cable, or hooked to antenna right from the get-go. Since OTA HDTV uses an entirely different transmission scheme than cable (ATSC vs. QAM), then it would be impossible for one's HDTV to tune both an ATSC and a QAM signal without re-configuring it and running a channel scan.

http://www.antennaweb.org will give you the information for over the air channels you can receive.

In looking through recent comments there seems to be sporadic reception from Montreal....Anyone have an update on receiving Montreal stations in Chittenden County VT? Thanks all!

I've been checking periodically, but for the past few months I haven't been able to get any strong enough to lock in. I don't expect it to get any better until they move their transmitters to Mt. Royal.

Over the years I've gotten 2.1, 6.1 and 17.1 but I haven't seen anything in quite a while. I did get channel 2.1 marginally one morning in December. When they do come in at our house it's usually between 7AM and 9AM on humid summer mornings. I've only had them in the winter a few times.

Over the years I've gotten 2.1, 6.1 and 17.1 but I haven't seen anything in quite a while. I did get channel 2.1 marginally one morning in December. When they do come in at our house it's usually between 7AM and 9AM on humid summer mornings. I've only had them in the winter a few times.

Do you have an outdoor antenna?

I have noticed, for weeks now, that WPTZ and WCAX are pounding in down here in the "Falls" area lately....I assumed that at the 91 miles distance, the lack of tree leaves may be the cause, or the snow cover may be helping.
I'm curious if anyone else has seen an obvious improvement.
I actually turned the beams north during the last CBS playoff game, as WRGB was taking hits and WCAX was solid....anybody?

"Do you have an outdoor antenna?"

No, it's in the attic aimed at Mt. Mansfield. It picks up Montreal with a side lobe and Plattsburgh from the rear lobe. It picks up 2, 6, 12, 17 and 35 analog from Montreal quite well, so the side lobe just happens to be more or less lined up correctly. It is amplified right at the antenna.

"Do you have an outdoor antenna?"

No, it's in the attic aimed at Mt. Mansfield. It picks up Montreal with a side lobe and Plattsburgh from the rear lobe. It picks up 2, 6, 12, 17 and 35 analog from Montreal quite well, so the side lobe just happens to be more or less lined up correctly. It is amplified right at the antenna.

Thanks and please keep us all informed when you get another hit from a Montreal station. I don't know why I am obsessed by tuning in to one of these--but I am. It reminds me of the hours spent by my dad and me in the 50's trying to tune in WRGB on channel 4 (yes, channel 4).

HDBruce;

What kind of antenna and amplifier do you have? I'm in Jericho with an older radioshack VHF/UHF and only pull the mountain stations. Thanks, Ed

"Do you have an outdoor antenna?"

No, it's in the attic aimed at Mt. Mansfield. It picks up Montreal with a side lobe and Plattsburgh from the rear lobe. It picks up 2, 6, 12, 17 and 35 analog from Montreal quite well, so the side lobe just happens to be more or less lined up correctly. It is amplified right at the antenna.

I'm curious....I was under the impression all the digital stations were on Mansfield....what station are you getting from Plattsburgh?

I'm curious....I was under the impression all the digital stations were on Mansfield....what station are you getting from Plattsburgh?

WCFE probably. It's not on Mansfield.

- Trip

To answer a couple of questions:

The Plattsburgh station is WCFE, ch 57. It drops from mid 70's to mid 40's and becomes unwatchable in the summer when the leaves are out. Remember it is on the rear lobe of my antenna.

The antenna is a $40 radio Shack VHF/UHF model I've had since the 80's; nothing special. The amplifier is a ~$55 Channel Master which I got about 6 years ago. The power supply near the TV doesn't have a model number on it and the amp it self is in the attic and hard to get at. It was rated "excellent for digital" but wasn't anything terribly special.

I would observe again how sensitive the digital signals are to what I believe is multipath. I have a direct line of sight to Mt. Mansfield and get the stations there at 99% on my tuner's signal meters. However, I went up into the attic a couple of springs ago to see if a minor reorientation of the antenna would better align the side reception node for the Montreal stations. I found that even a 5 or 10 degree shift dropped the Mt. Mansfield stations to the 20's and 30's, at which point my tuners give up and announce "no signal". Clearly this isn't a drop off in absolute signal strength but is rather the introduction of multipath from nearby hills. Multipath in the analog days was just a ghost. With a digital signal it apparently decreases the delta between a 1 and a 0 to the point where the tuner can't discriminate and just gives up. Each generation of digital tuner gets better at multipath rejection, but we all have to live with what we bought. Net: small tweaks in antenna orientation may make a big difference if there are hills or structures nearby which can reflect a signal.

HDBruce; Thanks for the info....hoping someday to get the Canadian stations. I agree with the minor adjustments statement; I had to very gently tweak my setup for Fox even though they are on the same mountain.

I, too, look forward to being able to pull in the Montreal stations with my ATSC tuner. But something just occrred to me...

Does ATSC have some kind of "region code" capability like DVDs? It is possible that regulators could enforce some kind of restriction that would prohibit me from watching a Canadian broadcast even though I can receive a usable signal?

No known capability or intent to impose regional restrictions.

A couple of weeks ago I noticed that Fox 44 signal strength had dropped from 98 to 70 with occasional drops below a lockable signal. It lasted for a few days and then returned to the mid 88's. I'm seeing the problem back again this evening while trying to watch the Saints-Vikings game. The signal bobbles between 68 and 73 and then drops way down and the picture breaks up. The other BTV channels are holding at 98, so it appears to be a station problem. All 4 of my tuners are seeing the same situation. We've had to resort to watching the game on channel 12 from Montreal in SD.

Anyone else observing anything? Anyone know what's going on at the station?

Seems ok on cable tonight but have had a lot of trouble with this station.

Signal strength is back up to a rock solid 98 this morning.

Finally someone else is seeing this too...see my posts from October and November...

A couple of weeks ago I noticed that Fox 44 signal strength had dropped from 98 to 70 with occasional drops below a lockable signal. It lasted for a few days and then returned to the mid 88's. I'm seeing the problem back again this evening while trying to watch the Saints-Vikings game. The signal bobbles between 68 and 73 and then drops way down and the picture breaks up. The other BTV channels are holding at 98, so it appears to be a station problem. All 4 of my tuners are seeing the same situation. We've had to resort to watching the game on channel 12 from Montreal in SD.

Anyone else observing anything? Anyone know what's going on at the station?

WPTZ had a similar problem back in October...probably not noticable for you locals, but this DX'er saw it clearly....the same issue as you describe above. Several weeks later, it was fixed...
Yesterday, I lost WPTZ completely, of course it was raining so hard, I couldn't see the apartment across the street, so I'm hoping that was the cause...WCAX, the weakest of the 3 northern stations I get, was a normal 50% SS all day, heavy rain or not. WETK was normal mid 50's. Normally, WPTZ comes in at an 85% SS, so this LOS yesterday kind of scarces me.
Eventually, last evening, it showed, but it was just marginal, just barely holding a lock....I would say it was a problem at my end with the antenna system and rain, but the 2 northern stations that were solid would prove that wrong.
The Albany stations were also normal.
Anyone else see Channel 5.1, 5.2 down on SS?

kb2fzq, I noticed a couple of dropouts during the 5.1 news last night, but that's normal with my Directv DVR (piece of junk since a software release last September) so I didn't check signal strength. I will later today.

However, some folks in Montreal did report 5.1 disappearing. This forum from time to time has postings about the Burlington stations:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=107974&page=108

as does this one:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=53294&page=97

kb2fzq, I noticed a couple of dropouts during the 5.1 news last night, but that's normal with my Directv DVR (piece of junk since a software release last September) so I didn't check signal strength. I will later today.

However, some folks in Montreal did report 5.1 disappearing. This forum from time to time has postings about the Burlington stations:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=107974&page=108

as does this one:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=53294&page=97

Wow, hmmm, so they did have a problem.....
As I said channel 5 is usually an 85% SS down here, to completely loose it didn't seem right, as 3 and 33 remained solid and normal....two middle of the road stations for me....
Yesterday, 5 was back and solid, but only at 72%. Maybe the heavy rain was the last straw for something that was right on the edge of failure....

EDIT:
WPTZ was back to 85% yesterday, 1-27-10

Anyone else notice that WCAX OTA has been having some signal issues and dropouts over the last two days? Usually it's the strongest most reliable signal I receive but yesterday and today it's been around 50-60 with a lot of drops below a lockable signal. Rest of the OTA signals are fine...

I am in Williston also and I've not noticed any problems with WCAX.

As of 4:30 am, Tuesday, 2-2-2010, WRGB is transmitting at 30 KW, up from 11.5 kw.
I mention this for anyone in the lower areas of the North Country or Vermont that might have OTA access to WRGB, RF channel 6.

Is anybody else disappointed in the lack of sub-channels in this market?

The CW is nice, but This.TV really does not interest me. But it must interest others in this market enough to have it.

PBS has a simulcast of 33-1 on 33-2 in SD. WVNY has the same 22-1 simulcasted on 22-2.

I was glad to see at least WPTZ add This.TV and get rid of the additional weather station. 2 weather channels in 1 market was a little much.

Has anybody else contacted WVNY/WFFF, WPTZ, or WCAX abut adding more or different sub-channels? Such as Universal Sports or Untamed Sports? What other options are there for this market that the stations could broadcast?

What about PBS? Is there another PBS program channel that they could broadcast? NASA TV or other educational programs?

Here are some responses that I have had about adding more programming to the area:

"At this time there are no plans for additional programming. Thank you

Don Nahumck, CBTE

Director of Engineering

WFFF/WVNY

Burlington VT
802-660-9333 ext 117
dnahumck@smithmediavt.com"
Vic Vetters <VVetters@smithmediavt.com was in the CC line.

And from Bo at Universal Sports (He responded almost instantly to my email!)
"Ryan,
We greatly appreciate your support of Universal Sports. Please know that
we have reached out to every TV station in the market place and they have
declined the service. Each has given their own reasons as to why, but to
me appears only a lack of vision and willingness to work.
You may contact any station and request the service. I would start with
the local NBC station and work your way from there.

We will be going up in Boston around March 29th which will result in some
cable in NH and Vermont. I will have a more accurate picture closer to
the launch date.
Regards,
Bo" blamotte@universalsports.com

Is it a waste of time to contact the stations? Or are there enough viewers on the forum / in the region that we can all send them emails about sub-channel programming options? There is enough bandwidth for 1 or 2 more sub-channels without affecting the HD XX-1 channel if they put it on XX-2.

I'm not looking for ESPN or Discovery, but the list of options in the CECB offical Sub-Channel thread looks good.

~ryan

It's my understanding that any use of sub channels results in decreased performance on the HD bandwith for the primary channel. There are other folks much more savvy than I who can comment on the actual engineering, but I find it difficult to have the CW religated to a subcarrier in this market. When I inquired about the possibility that they would carry the HD feed in place of the SD one, I was told by the station manager that they were "...working on it." Of course, that was a year ago and you can see how much progress has been made. Personally, I would forgo any extra sub channels to have a pristine picture on the main feed.

The picture quality on Universal Sports is absolutely horrendous from what I've heard. I know that if I ran a TV station, I would not carry it.

- Trip

It's my understanding that any use of sub channels results in decreased performance on the HD bandwith for the primary channel. There are other folks much more savvy than I who can comment on the actual engineering, but I find it difficult to have the CW religated to a subcarrier in this market. When I inquired about the possibility that they would carry the HD feed in place of the SD one, I was told by the station manager that they were "...working on it." Of course, that was a year ago and you can see how much progress has been made. Personally, I would forgo any extra sub channels to have a pristine picture on the main feed.

I was thinking along the lines of utilizing the existing sub-channels. That would not impact any of the existing HD content. Same way WPTZ got rid of Weather+ and went with This.TV.

Too bad there aren't any more companies broadcasting DTV from Mt. Mansfield.

Thanks,

~ryan

WXXA in Albany has Untamed Sports on 23-2 (RF 7)....I don't watch it alot, but occasionally bump into a show of interest. I agree that the stations should all expand to a 4 channel system, with sub-channels, giving the viewer more options, but there are cost issues, and bandwidth issues, and rights issues and I assume technical knowledge issues. It will evolve as it evolves. But I also agree that if branching out to a 4 channels system degrades the primary HD channel, that I would not want to happen.

If the constantly changing price structure from Dish wasn't enough to tick you off, the new HD channels added yesterday are unavailable to us here in the North country--unless you upgrade to a new dish. Cost...$100. Alternative...new insurance policy ($6 per month extra) and a $15 fee per visit. That's a hell of a lot to add my personal favorite, BBC HD. For those interested here's an article on the new additions:

We always welcome new HD channels with open arms, but in the case of these new HD channels from DISH Network there's a catch. These new channels are being delivered on a newer birds located at 72.7 and 129 -- we don't pretend to know what these numbers mean -- so most existing DISH Network customers can't see them. Some of you are lucky enough to have a DISH 1000 which can tune in the new channels, assuming you don't live on the east coast. If you do live on the old coast of the US you need an even newer DISH 1000.4 (pictured above). Bottom line is that all of those stuck in the snowy wonder land can't pass the long snow days with these new channels because even if the UPS truck could make it to your house, you'd have to be pretty hard core to go out on the roof in weather like that.

TRU-TV HD
Fox Soccer Channel HD
Retroplex HD
Indieplex HD
BBC America HD
E! Entertainment Television HD
Hallmark HD
Showtime West HD
Sportsman Channel HD

Yeah it sucks not to get these at the moment but once the FCC approves the move of E6 to the 61.5 slot we should be all set. For me Top Gear in HD is what I'm waiting for!

Well, a dish tech just left my place. Of course, he had no idea about the new channels or what he'd have to do to get them. One thing is certain, unlike the corporate Dish reps who want to simply install a new Dish 1000 antenna to get the 72 orbital slot, this fix will NOT work in Vermont. I finally ended up at what they told me was the executive level of support and they agreed to send out another tech Friday to install a THIRD dish. I refused to pay for the $200 switch and other associated equipment and they finally waved the charges.
I'll let you know how the install goes. I don't know the show "Top Gear" but I'll search it out if this install is effective.

. I don't know the show "Top Gear" but I'll search it out if this install is effective.

TG is on BBCA(Monday nights). We get it now in SD and "soon" in HD! :D For myself, I can wait. Don't really want a third dish even though we are paying for it(price increases). Did you just call DISH to get a tech or did you deal with someone locally(ie; M&R)?

TG is on BBCA(Monday nights). We get it now in SD and "soon" in HD! :D For myself, I can wait. Don't really want a third dish even though we are paying for it(price increases). Did you just call DISH to get a tech or did you deal with someone locally(ie; M&R)?

I did everything through Dish. The technician who came to the house was on the phone with them for about 45 minutes and then handed me the phone as he had to go to another install. Finally, a senior member of some team came back on the phone to tell me that they would install a third dish tomorrow. It should be interesting to see how we'll bury 100 feet of coax under five feet of snow!
I was angered, also, when I just sat down to watch TV tonight only to find that they had cut of all of my HD channels on 61.5.
I know it's only TV but this is really discouraging.

Yeah it sucks not to get these at the moment but once the FCC approves the move of E6 to the 61.5 slot we should be all set. For me Top Gear in HD is what I'm waiting for!

Not so sure thats gonna happen. The word from Scott at the Satellite guys is There will be no hd transfers to E6

"Just FYI.. while no official confirmation the word I am getting is the new HD channels are NOT going to be moved to 61.5 even if Echostar 6 is moved into place."

I have seen a number of posts saying the same thing

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-uplink-center/202702-2-10-2010-2-07pm-uplink-activity-report-97-changes-16.html

I'm a regular follower of SatGuys and have read the threads and the poll...
Too big a market for those of us on 61.5 to not give us the new HD's. I'm in no rush to have my place look like a ground station. I have AEP+Locals+GoldHD/PlatHD and other then BBCA-HD don't feel like I'm missing much. Sometimes channel surfing I feel like the Springsteen song "57 channels and nothings on" :D

I feel the same way! I am not jumping in to anything, but I see a lot of people installing the Eastern Arc Sat configuration, which really is a one dish solution to replace the two dishes that most of us have today. I could do that, and will if no more hd programming comes off 61.5 and yes there is more coming, ESPNU, Epix to name a few. I can't believe that Dish would hang us out to dry, But stranger things have happened.

The Dish saga continues....
Well, I wasted another day at home waiting for the Dish rep to show up. Not only did he not show, but the company called three times looking for him. I hope he's not at the bottom of some ravine clutching an LNB. They say another associate will be here early Saturday AM.
When the first installer showed up he said the they have installed a number of Dish 1000 antennas and remarked that they are completely unreliable. So much for the one dish fix in Vermont. Therefore, I need a third dish and a four antenna switch to boot ($200). Good luck to them if they thiink they're going to pour a concrete slab and run cable to the house (100ft.).
The worst part of all of this is that Dish net shut down my HD feeds from 61.5 and no one seems to know how to get them back! In the words of one of Hollywood's fovorite comediams..."Oh, Ollie, this is another fine mess you've gotten me into!"

I know this would currently be off topic, but for those watching this post and have access to Albany stations, WNYT brought up the RF channel 18 transmitter yesterday, transmitting off of Bald Mountain in Troy, N.Y....that is the location of the old chan 13 analog transmitter. Just an FYI...

The Dish Network Saga ends....
The Dish tech (Prime One) showed up today with a solution for the problem of getting the new HD channels. He used a Dish 500 Plus and an external 4 element switch. I now see the sats at 129 plus 110, 119 and 61.5. Problem solved. You might want to note this if you're going to do an upgrade. It will certainly save time (3 days) and money. I talked Dish into doing this for free.
The BBCA HD signal is pristine. I had read that it was down-resed in some journal but it is not. Fox Soccer Channel is also included in this package.
Hope this helps Dish customers and I apologize for using so much time on this message board over the last few days.

Nothing to apologize for teach1066! The info will help many in the same situation..including me once I start to get frustrated by paying for something I should get! :) You mentioned a 500 Plus. Am I understanding that this is different then the 500 I have pointing at 110/119 and my second dish(single element 300) pointing at 61.5. What I am asking is you still needed three dishes right?

Nothing to apologize for teach1066! The info will help many in the same situation..including me once I start to get frustrated by paying for something I should get! :) You mentioned a 500 Plus. Am I understanding that this is different then the 500 I have pointing at 110/119 and my second dish(single element 300) pointing at 61.5. What I am asking is you still needed three dishes right?
The "Dish 500 Plus" is different from the "Dish 500." The Plus has an elliptical shape and room for three LNB's. Simply, it means you only need two dishes.
There seems to be some urgency at getting the local installers to do the conversion because the 4 position switch needed is in short supply. The installer had done two other similar installs beside mine this week--and I called the day the HD stations were announced. The only downside I see is the fact that the 129 degree sat. has a considerably lower signal strength reading. (129 reads 37, 119 reads 77 and 110 reads 67.) The installer suggested that this is typical for 129 in Vermont. Actually, my 110 and 119 readings are higher with the Dish 500 Plus. Hope this helps.

That is very interesting Teacher1066, thanks! Are you sure it is a 500plus and not a 1000.2? It is my understanding that the 1000.2 is used for 110/119/129 and the 500+ is 110/118.7/119 Of course I may be wrong. Thanks again for all of your input.

The installer was quite emphatic that the Dish 1000 did not really work in Vermont. Apparently the 500 + looks like it (larger and elliptical) but is not in actuality the same thing. I wish I had a more competent background on the engineering side but this is as close to reporting what the installer said that I can muster.
If nothing else, I've learned that the Dish Net has become so large that one division doesn't really have a clue what the other is up to. I couldn't believe how many phone reps we encountered that had no idea that there were new HD channels, that could not pull up explinations on their computer screens and that had the authority to make significant changes. I reached as far as Customer Support from the Executive Offices. (Big doins) That lady assurred me that my problems would magically disappear...but she did not return my phone calls when we really needed her.
I have to admit that the thing that keeps me with Dish (of course their probably all the same) is the 722 receiver. I think that that unit is a remarkable piece of engineering.
Hope this helps....

If it's any consolation, teacher1066, DirecTV phone reps have not a clue either....it must just be the nature of the beast.

Thanks Teacher1066! I am in the same boat as you were, just trying to gather info before I pull the trigger, and you information is very helpful ! I guess I am still hopeful for a 61.5 solution.

Thanks Teacher1066! I am in the same boat as you were, just trying to gather info before I pull the trigger, and you information is very helpful ! I guess I am still hopeful for a 61.5 solution.

The Prime Service associate who did my install was a gentlemen by the name of Bill Johnson. He has now completed three of these and I am sure he could help you. The company is located in Williston but you'll probably have to go through Dish Net to arrange an install. I'd ask for him by name.
My readings with the new dish are far better than ever before. Today I have a 78-79 reading on 119, a 75-77 reading on 110, a 65-67 on 61.5 and a 45-50from 129. Of course, these readings are from the best transponder for each sat. location.
I was so happy that I spent most of this day tearing down my entire system and tearing out sat. stuff from as far back as 1985. Boy this exercise gives you a real appreciation for the tremendous improvement in satellite eqipment there has been over the years. I hope you have as good experience with this changeover as I did....good luck.

Great stuff, Teacher! Thanks!

Lord help us if anyone thinks Prime has a clue.:rolleyes:

There's no big deal or revolutionary new dish setup needed to pull in 72 around here, the only real issue is if you can get someone else to pay for the upgrade or if you're going to pay for it yourself.

All that's needed is a 1000.4 to get 61.5 & 72. If you're mid-state and down, you should get usable signals on 77 also. The problem with using just a 1000.4 is you'll not get the local PBS channels, which are on 110. Also missing will be a good chunk of the PPVs & public access channels. If you can live with out those channels, a 1000.4 dish is all you need.

If you do need any of the aforementioned channels, replace the current dish 500 which is receiving 119/110 with a 1000.4 and re-point the single lnb dish from 61.5 to 110. In the end you'd have a 1000.4 picking up 61/72 with a wing dish bringing in 110. This setup would allow you to feed up to 3 dual tuner receivers. If you need to also keep 119(because MPeg2 equipment won't see 72) or have more than 3 receivers or both, you'll need the DPP44 switch to see all four locations.

So if you can live without PBS(don't most of us get it off-air anyhow?) and some PPV & PI, a 1000.4 should be all you need.

That being said, Dish sent us dealers a memo yesterday saying they're "working on" a solution for paying us to do these upgrades, so customers won't have be subjected to the 1-800 "techs".:rolleyes:

Is anyone here having trouble with WETK 33-1? SiliconDust claims they're transmitting it in 1440x1080i instead of the correct 1920x1080i, which makes some TVs display it improperly.

- Trip

Is anyone here having trouble with WETK 33-1? SiliconDust claims they're transmitting it in 1440x1080i instead of the correct 1920x1080i, which makes some TVs display it improperly.

- Trip

I dropped into 33-1 briefly yesterday just to check signal strength (after rotor repair)....it looked fine to me, at the time it was in HD, a children's show.

Anyone over here having any issues with the DirecTV AM21 OTA tuner?
A guy on the Albany forum can't get WNYT 13-1, but gets 13-2, -4 fine with the AM21.
This is just since WNYT brought their RF18 translator on air, and they are mapping it as 13-1, -2, -3, causing (supposedly) tuners to show two 13-1's, -2's and -3's for anyone in receive range of both transmitters.
My TV is showing 13-3 (radar), 18-3 (HD) and 18-4 (WeatherSD) all dupes of the channel RF13 channels (13-1 HD, 13-2 WeatherSD, 13-4 radar).
Anybody know about this AM21?

As I recall, the AM21 works the same way as the self contained Directv DVRs with OTA capability. That is, it can't scan but gets its physical to logical channel assignments from a database maintained by Tribune Media and downloaded in the data stream from the satellite.. During the digital conversion there were many problems nationwide and we even had our share here in Burlington. At one point when WCAX changed from physical 53 to physical 22, the 3-1 channel remained mapped by Tribune to 53 but the 3-2 channel was remapped correctly to Ch 22. So folks could get the weather but couldn't see the main channel. It was obviously a mapping problem because they are all part of the same 18 meg bit stream and if you get a good signal on the -2 subchannel, you have an equally good signal on the -1 channel. Eventually with some notes to Tribune the mapping was fixed.
I don't know where the translator is located but this could be an interesting situation because for a given zipcode, which is how the database is organized, you would need two remappings.

Check http://www.zap2it.com. If a channel isn't listed or is incorrect, there is a link to have them add it or fix it. This is a Tribune website which comes from the same database that Directv uses.
__________________

With DISH happiness lasts but a week....
Some may recall my saga with getting the new HD channels from Dish by installing a 500 Plus dish. Well, after a three day ordeal all was well for I got the new HD and my signal strength improved beyond expectations. However, I haven't even paid for the install yet and already Dish is sending this note to its dealers:
HD Channels Launched on the 72.7° Orbital Location for Easter Arc customers- The additional channels were launched on the 72.7° orbital location, instead of the 61.5° orbital location, because in the future we plan to migrate core HD content to the 72.7° orbital location for Eastern Arc customers. We are aware that some existing customers will be impacted because of this and we are working to provide these customers with solutions. If you are contacted by an existing customer who is interested in receiving these additional HD channels, we have created a specific phone number for them to call – please advise customers to contact DISH Network directly at 888-701-8965.
HERE WE GO AGAIN.......the thought of dealing with Dish reps who have NO idea what's going on in the company leaves me cold! Dish customers BEWARE......

As I recall, the AM21 works the same way as the self contained Directv DVRs with OTA capability. That is, it can't scan but gets its physical to logical channel assignments from a database maintained by Tribune Media and downloaded in the data stream from the satellite.. During the digital conversion there were many problems nationwide and we even had our share here in Burlington. At one point when WCAX changed from physical 53 to physical 22, the 3-1 channel remained mapped by Tribune to 53 but the 3-2 channel was remapped correctly to Ch 22. So folks could get the weather but couldn't see the main channel. It was obviously a mapping problem because they are all part of the same 18 meg bit stream and if you get a good signal on the -2 subchannel, you have an equally good signal on the -1 channel. Eventually with some notes to Tribune the mapping was fixed.
I don't know where the translator is located but this could be an interesting situation because for a given zipcode, which is how the database is organized, you would need two remappings.

Check http://www.zap2it.com. If a channel isn't listed or is incorrect, there is a link to have them add it or fix it. This is a Tribune website which comes from the same database that Directv uses.


Thanks for the info...the guy apparently got 13-1 in by changing the setup (seven attemps and finally got it in, he says) so he's happy for now.
The 18 translator is in Troy, NY, on Bald Mountain, and the main transmitter, chan 13 (rf 12) is on the Helderberg Mountain range, I think it's considered New Scotland, NY. They are still tweeking the 18 transmitter, only running 10KW, and they are waiting on adapters to fit some new, low loss coax, and then will bump up to 15 KW in a couple of weeks. When I get the 18 signal better, I will be interested in how my TV will handle six 13's (2 HD and 4 subs). And in September, another WNYT translator will go up on West Mountain here in Glens Falls, NY (rf 45, 15 KW)....then I'll see nine 13's...I see a mess coming. That rf 45 translator might be of interest to some of you to the north when it goes on air. WRGB CBS6 (rf 39) also has been granted authority for a West Mt. translator, but they say it wll be some time before that's on air, due to bankruptcy issues.

HD Channels Launched on the 72.7° Orbital Location for Easter Arc customers- The additional channels were launched on the 72.7° orbital location, instead of the 61.5° orbital location, because in the future we plan to migrate core HD content to the 72.7° orbital location for Eastern Arc customers. We are aware that some existing customers will be impacted because of this and we are working to provide these customers with solutions.......
I read Scott's post yesterday on Satguys and my stomach just started churning. :confused: "Some existing customers will be impacted". Gee really..some! :mad: I'm still going to let the dust settle on all this before I act on anything. Yes, it looks like the writng is on the wall: Eastern Arc, but how long for the migration? The folks who read forums on this topic have a heads up, but what about the 99 percent who don't... :(

I called the special support number and was told that I had nothing to worry about. Of course, this came from an employee who was apparently reading a text. So who knows?
Also, after the call I went to my 722 and checked on the sat at 72 degrees. There was a red bar in the signal strength box that read 80%. Perhaps some of the guys with engineering backrounds can tell me if that is a true reading from that sat location and that all it would take to change the red to green would be a signal from Dish. I tend to reside on "cloud nine" with this stuff--always hopeful. This really is a dismal way to handle customers.

You know, I was very seriously thinking of changing to Dish from DirecTV, because DTV is SOOOO expensive, but in light of this conversation you're all having, I think I'll just cool my heels...thanks for the heads up!

You know, I was very seriously thinking of changing to Dish from DirecTV, because DTV is SOOOO expensive, but in light of this conversation you're all having, I think I'll just cool my heels...thanks for the heads up!

With a new installation, you should get everything you need from the start. The best advice is to bypass Dish and work with a local installer. A local will show up on time because they don't schedule 8 installations per day for their installers. And once you go through Dish, only Dish contractors can make any changes. Losing signal because your satellite post shifted due to frost heaves? The local can be there quickly to peak your signal while you may be looking at a week to 10 days via Dish. My original installation 10 years ago and my HD upgrade 2 years ago, both took 3 tries before someone showed up. When I tried to go through a local for the HD upgrade, he told me that he wasn't allowed to because the original install was done by someone else.
Other than that, my Dish service has been great. I will need to schedule a service call to pick up the new satellite, but plan to wait until their contractor is thoroughly familiar with the changes.

With DISH happiness lasts but a week....
Some may recall my saga with getting the new HD channels from Dish by installing a 500 Plus dish. Well, after a three day ordeal all was well for I got the new HD and my signal strength improved beyond expectations. However, I haven't even paid for the install yet and already Dish is sending this note to its dealers:
HD Channels Launched on the 72.7° Orbital Location for Easter Arc customers- The additional channels were launched on the 72.7° orbital location, instead of the 61.5° orbital location, because in the future we plan to migrate core HD content to the 72.7° orbital location for Eastern Arc customers. We are aware that some existing customers will be impacted because of this and we are working to provide these customers with solutions. If you are contacted by an existing customer who is interested in receiving these additional HD channels, we have created a specific phone number for them to call – please advise customers to contact DISH Network directly at 888-701-8965.
HERE WE GO AGAIN.......the thought of dealing with Dish reps who have NO idea what's going on in the company leaves me cold! Dish customers BEWARE......

I'm not sure how this impacts you. I thought you were good to go and this note is just a heads up to the contractors.

Since Sunday, viewers in the Montreal area have been reporting reception problems with WFFF-DT. Me included. People are reporting a lose of signal. While WVNY-DT which most people in Montreal usually have problems with seems to be coming in stronger.

How is the situation down in Vermont. Are people also having problems with WFFF-DT these past two days?

Does anybody know if there are any changes on the WFFF-DT transmitter?

With a new installation, you should get everything you need from the start. The best advice is to bypass Dish and work with a local installer.

This is how I did it when I went with DTV back in 2000. Not to many local installers then but I hit paydirt!. I used them for an upgrade 2 years later and at the start of 2007 when I switched to DISH. Excellent advice.

....Other than that, my Dish service has been great. I will need to schedule a service call to pick up the new satellite, but plan to wait until their contractor is thoroughly familiar with the changes.

Ditto!

Haven't watched ABC (WVNY) recently but did watch 24 on WFFF last night (Monday 2/22) and didn't notice any problems.

I checked signal strengths this morning at 10:40 and except for WFFF they are normal:
WCAX 3.1 98%
WPTZ 5.1 98%
WVNY 22.1 98%
WETK 33.1 98%
WFFF 44.1 92%

WFFF is off a bit, but not down in the 70's and 60's like it was a month ago.

For those interested in the Dish sat changes...this email was sent to retailers over the weekend. It certainly seems as though these changes are more eminent than I had thought. By the way, thanks for the comments on hiring a local installer. For the past ten years I have assumed that Dish only worked through their certified retailers.

"Over the next few months many of the HD programming services currently located at the 61.5 orbital location will be moving to 72.7. These services will begin to be available in the next few weeks and will be simulcast on 61.5 and 72.7 until the full transition, currently scheduled for fall, 2010. There are two options available to continue to receive these services and to assure that you are able to receive the new HD services that have recently launched.

1. Many systems may be able to re-point their 61.5 dish to the 129 orbital position. This may require the addition of (currently) two 8PSK transmodulators and there are plans for additional transponders in the near future.

2. Some systems may be able to transition to a full Eastern Arc configuration utilizing satellites at 72.7, 77 and 61.5 ' W. Please note that this will require that ALL receivers on the system must be MPEG4 (models 522, 625, 381 and 811 are not MPEG4 compatible). We are also planning several additional transponder launches at 72.7 in the near term; additional details to follow in the coming weeks.

Please note that it is not recommended to add 72.7 to existing Western Arc systems that utilize 110 & 119. Due to issues with service duplications on the two configurations, it is recommended that the operator choose either full EA or WA"

"Over the next few months many of the HD programming services currently located at the 61.5 orbital location will be moving to 72.7."Has Dish said exactly which HD services will be moving? I have a Dish500 (110/119) and a 2nd dish pointing at 61.5 feeding a ViP622. I'd like to know what's moving before I go through the effort of trying to figure out a new dish/switch configuration.

What teacher1066 posted is all that's been communicated to commercial dealers like us. The residential only guys haven't even got this much, at least directly from Dish.

As I said before, we've been installing 1000.4 for 61.5/72 & a 2nd dish for 110. We've been "tin foiling" the 77 feed because it doesn't give a usable signal here on the Quebec border, though sometimes it'll show up long enough to get listed in the switch matrix, thus loading a bunch of unwatchable(Acquiring Signal) channels in the guide. Tin foil on the feed stops this from happening.

Maybe they'll come out with a dish just for 61.6/72, but our solution works fine.

Dish reply...
When I emailed Dish for some "guidance" on the transfer of HD to the 72 degree slot, I received this reply:
"Thank you for your email. We appreciate your inquiry and I am happy to assist you. You will not need any new dish or re-alignment since you now have the 129 satellite location. You will be able to access all available HD channels."

I'd be happier if this said "all future HD channel additions"......

Quick question. My father lives in Moretown, VT and I guess Comcast runs that area now. What kind of box is Comcast using in that area for HDTV? I am curious because my wife and I just bought him a new HDTV and wanted to see what box he would get so I would know if I need to order an HDMI cable or not. Thanks :)

In my case at least (Monkton, VT), Comcast provided the HDMI cable when I upgraded to their HD cable box. I would expect their policy to be the same throughout the region.

I was getting signal strength on WFFF of less than 60 a few days ago but back to around 70 now.
As for getting HD from dish the first install was for a 129 with no chance for line of site. After a few days working with tech through on line chat second install was for the 1k4 dish to replace a 300 aimed at 61.5. I was hoping for a third dish pointing at 72.7 but no such luck. I did get new dish (1k4) for 61.5 and 72.7 at no charge but signal strength is very low for 61.5 and may need re-peaking.

Well I recently had the EA with 110 wing dish installed. It was a real adventure with dish and it took two calls from the installer AND I had to take off from work and come home and help him. What I found amazing is the installer was doing this grudgingly as he assured me that I was getting all the channels already! When we were done he was shocked to see the extra channels I was getting. Thanks to all that posted their advice! Antennaman1 was spot on with his analysis of 77 as I am in Northern Rutland Co and do get 77 thou it is weak. I was wondering if someone could give me a rough idea of the signal levels I should expect from this configuration. I am concerned that 61.5 may be low also. It has been fine but the weather has been good.
Teacher1066, how is that 129 been working for you?
Thanks to all

Teacher1066, how is that 129 been working for you?
Thanks to all[/QUOTE]

My experience remains the same as last week. If it's any help to you I've listed the sats I receive with my new dish configeration and list the "hot" transponders.

129: Trans. 21 Signal strength: 57
Trans. 17 signal strength: 45
Trans. 19 signal strength: 46
(There are a number of transponders that have no signal--I suppose they are dead or in some way truned off. I did have a problem keeping this on line when the last snow storm hit with that really heavy wet snow.)

65.1 Trans. 13 signal strength: 73
Trans 9: signal strength: 80
Trans. 5 Signal sttrength: 101 (This seems so high that it puts the rest of the figures in question in my mind but perhaps it is possible. It is far higher a reading on all transponders than I had previously received with the old dish.)

110 Trans. 15 signal strength: 82
Trans. 11 signal strength: 84
(Again these readings are far above those of the last dish I had.)

119 Trans. 1 signal strength: 84
(The rest of the active transponders averaged a signal strength of 79.)

Again, I am pleased with the results of the changes but there is always that cautionary note to be added which, in my experience with Dish over the past 10 years, is that they may change significant numbers of HD to another satellite without seemingly informing their own in-house staff and certainly never alerting their dealers across the country.
In the final analysis, it is afterall "just" TV...but I'll never understand why I am emotionally drawn to it and yell when I lose even one channel. Hope this helps...

Thanks teacher1066!
Here is what I have on the 1k4

65.1
13-56
09-63
05-84

72
06-55
19-54
22-58
32-58

77
02-40
10-41
18-41
22-40

110
15-82
11-79
I have not touched this since the upgrade, curious how this compares with other's
Thanks again

Your signal strength numbers for 72 and others are far above what my installer said they had found on their installs of the 1000.4. This should be great news for folks. He informed me that he had been called back to two accounts to remove the new dish. You should be bullet proof now unless Dish really goes for even more radical sat changes.
Frankly, at this point, I'll be just thrilled if Dish doesn't have to disable all of our DVRs because of the lawsuit with Tivo. Ugh.

It looks like XStreamHD (http://www.xstreamhd.com) has started taking pre-orders. Anyone on this forum thinking about giving it a try?

I can't seem to find any info on what their subscription tiers/rates are. The up-front costs are fairly high ($400-$500) but not unreasonable.

Your signal strength numbers for 72 and others are far above what my installer said they had found on their installs of the 1000.4. This should be great news for folks. He informed me that he had been called back to two accounts to remove the new dish. You should be bullet proof now unless Dish really goes for even more radical sat changes.
Frankly, at this point, I'll be just thrilled if Dish doesn't have to disable all of our DVRs because of the lawsuit with Tivo. Ugh.

It is always something with Dish isn't it! I am hoping I have enough signal to get through most rain fade. The talk is the 500 plus (1000.5) has a larger reflector and thus more gain. Your signals are awesome, on 61.5 especially

That's good info on the new dish. Sadly, I have a 10 foot "C" band dish sitting idly next to the Dish plus. Now that unit rarely was ever affected by snow or rain. I guess those were the "good old days."

That's good info on the new dish. Sadly, I have a 10 foot "C" band dish sitting idly next to the Dish plus. Now that unit rarely was ever affected by snow or rain. I guess those were the "good old days."


That is so funny! I have a 10 foot C-band directly between my 110 dish and my new 1k4. I just fired it up a couple of weeks ago to see if there were any feeds for the Olympics. I was so discouraged with the lack of live coverage on NBC (Alpine skiing mostly). To my amazement the motor worked and it tracked properly! even the polarator motor worked. Of course there is practically nothing available with my receiver, and no Olympics.
But you are right it received through the rain and snow no problem.
Thanks for the memories

Can you stick your EchoStar LNB on the BUD and point it at one of the EchoStar birds and get a wicked signal?

I have often thought that there must be a way to use that 10 foot reflector with a dish lnb. I have never tried it.

Are all the Dish Fans going to Skype the Charlie Chat this Monday? It's my plan. I'm just hoping someone gets through and asks why they still charge the extra $10 for PlatinumHD. I know I know.. folks have been getting the charge dropped via chat/online program change/CSRs but I have been waiting patiently(dumb) for Charlie to fess up.:rolleyes:

Can you stick your EchoStar LNB on the BUD and point it at one of the EchoStar birds and get a wicked signal?
Possibly, it depends how old the dish is. If it's from the '80s and mesh or perforated, the holes would be to large to receive the higher frequencies/smaller wave lengths of today's DBS satellites. If it's a new mesh or perf or even an all metal dish(which I don't remember seeing for 25 yrs) then you'd be good to go.

I still have my BUD(Bug Useful Dish). More than anything I keep it as a reminder to the former customer who sold me his/my house and 30 acres for almost nothing, interest free, because he and his wife liked the attention we gave them when they had questions/problems. Thanks Tony, RIP.

65.1
13-56
09-63
05-84

72
06-55
19-54
22-58
32-58

77
02-40
10-41
18-41
22-40

110
15-82
11-79
I have not touched this since the upgrade, curious how this compares with other's

Here at the office in Newport:

61.5
13-76
09-81
05-103

72
06-61
19-57
22-62
32-58

77
As I've said above, we put aluminum tape over this feed, but when we don't we get a couple of transponders in the 17-20 range.

110

15-80
11-80

One of the big problems with the 1000.4 is the snow and I don't mean so much as when it's falling, but the collecting in the dish, because of the higher look angle it has than a dish pointing to 110/119/129. What you can do to lessen the snow accumulating in the dish is to spray the dish with some Teflon spray. This has been working well for us and our customers.

Thank you AntennaMan1 looks like you have that dialed in! You have better signal on 61.5 than I had with a 500 wing. Would I be wrong in assuming that there is some compromise of 61.5 levels when the dish is setup to squeeze as much as possible at 77? The last thing that my installer did was peak 77.
Thanks again

What you can do to lessen the snow accumulating in the dish is to spray the dish with some Teflon spray. This has been working well for us and our customers.[/QUOTE]

Brilliant....Aubuchon here I come! Sad that Pam doesn't make a spray for that!
By the way, my BUD is an old Channel Master dish designed for cable head ends. When I put it up it was illegal to have a dish.
An acquaintence told me that because of some such foolish thing like "focal length" and increased "noise" you can't put a Dish LNB on the fiberglass unit. True...????

Are all the Dish Fans going to Skype the Charlie Chat this Monday? It's my plan. I'm just hoping someone gets through and asks why they still charge the extra $10 for PlatinumHD. I know I know.. folks have been getting the charge dropped via chat/online program change/CSRs but I have been waiting patiently(dumb) for Charlie to fess up.:rolleyes:
I tried to get the Platinum HD charged dropped via chat and was assured that it is still a separate and valid charge.

I tried to get the Platinum HD charged dropped via chat and was assured that it is still a separate and valid charge.

Thats weird. I called about 3 months ago and they dropped the charges and continued the service. I guess that is really weird! Got the new indie and retro channels too after I got the Eastern Arc dish.

Just went to Dish chat again and the problem is resolved:

Me: I am being charged $10 each for Silver and Platinum HD. There should only be a single $10 HD charge
(03hy) Bryan S. 67Z: You are getting Platinum HD.
(03hy) Bryan S. 67Z: You will receive 11 more additional HD channels with Platinum HD for $10 a month.
(03hy) Bryan S. 67Z: I can remove Platinum HD on your account and offer you Platinum HD for free.
Me: Okay, that works for me.
(03hy) Bryan S. 67Z: Sure, I will remove Platinum HD and add Platinum HD for free.
(03hy) Bryan S. 67Z: You will save $10 a month.
(03hy) Bryan S. 67Z: You will not be charged for Platinum HD from your next bill.

The guy kept pumping comments while I was still steaming about the first couple of responses. I'm glad I don't type as fast as he did.

Now I just need to get the satellite 129 for new HD issue resolved. My last chat about that didn't go any better than my first chat about the Platinum HD charge.

Good for you! Persistence prevails. I had trees, trees, trees blocking 129 but I was prepared to start cutting. AntennaMan1's posts convinced me to give Eastern Arc a try, and so far so good.

OK so now I'm starting to get the itch for the newest batch of HD that I'm already paying for...

So from whats been posted there are a couple of ways to skin this dish cat.:p

Are these the choices:
DISH 500+ to point at 110/119/129 and single for 61.5

Dish 500 to point at 110/119(what I have) and replace single 61.5 with 1000.4 to cover 61.5/72.7 and foil cover 77

Three dishes.. to cover 110/119, 61.5 and 72.7

That cover it for around here? Just how much snow really is 1000.4 going to possibly hold? My dishes are not in a spot that I could perform snow removal very easily... Teflon spray I doubt lasts very long. Am I wrong? Could one of you with a 1000.4 post a picture here? Thanks.

I have been able to use 77 here in Sudbury So I have 61.5,72,77, and 110, as a wing dish. I think if you use 110/119 you will need a switch also. http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4488/img00266.jpg

I have been able to use 77 here in Sudbury So I have 61.5,72,77, and 110, as a wing dish. I think if you use 110/119 you will need a switch also. http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4488/img00266.jpgThanks so much for the picture. The tilt back doesn't seem as bad as I had thought. My dishes are on a 2nd story porch roof with a clear sky picture for 110/119. The wind takes care of much snow buildup. My 61.5 dish gets great meter results as well(ie; the tp's measured in this thread). Guess its time to call MR who installed my dishes both when I was with DirecTV and my changeover to Dish some three years ago. I'll be curious to see what they recommend.

For those who might be interested in the continuing saga between Dish ans TIVO:
News Digest
Dish Network Asks Court to Approve New DVR
TVPredictions.com
Washington, D.C. (March 12, 2010) -- Dish Network is asking a federal court to approve its new DVR software design in the TiVo patent case, Business Week reports.

An appeals court last week upheld a lower court's decision that Dish had violated TiVo's DVR patent. The ruling could force Dish to pay TiVo $300 million in damages. Additionally, Dish could be forced to disable the company's eight million DVRs.

However, Dish is hoping that the court will find that its new DVR software design no longer violates the patent.

Business Week reports that the new design was filed under seal in federal court in Marshall, Texas, where TiVo first won a jury verdict against Dish more than three years ago.

If the court approved Dish's new design, it would apparently allow the satcaster to operate its DVRs without change. However, TiVo would likely appeal the ruling -- and Dish would probably still be liable for past damages.

Business Week reports that TiVo has filed a request with the U.S. Court of Appeals, asking that Dish's DVR service be stopped immediately.

It's a shame when a company that can't stay competitive has to result to lawsuits for money. The intellectual property being contested is simply the idea of recording one program and watching another. How can a software change get around that? To be honest, we were doing that with VCRs anyway. Dish went way beyond that concept with the ability to record up to three programs concurrently. Even the new HD Tivos just announced still don't support satellite. OTOH, maybe Dish just should have just made a licensing deal with Tivo like Direct did, but I'm sure that Dish lawyers probably blessed the direction Dish took. Dish has the best DVRs in the business.

I really think that my Dish 722 is perhaps the best and most innovative piece of gear I've ever owned. To think that Dish would be forced to disable it is frightening. I've read so many conflicting reports about this over the last few years but this seems to indicate that ALL Dish DVRs will be affected--not just the scant few originally reported on the message boards.
Frankly, I don't see why Dish just doesn't buy out TIVO as their corporate value must be down after this last period of time when they had virtually no true innovative upgrades or changes. It will be a sad day if this happens...

Especially when Tivo has not in the past, or now, or even expressed in the future that they plan to enter the satellite TV market. What competition are they trying to squelch? Unless it is that they feel that folks are jumping to satellite because of the superior DVRs. I switched to satellite 11 years ago after becoming totally disgusted with what seemed like almost monthly price increases from cable. The past couple of years I would have been disgusted over the slow acquisition of HD programming.

Especially when Tivo has not in the past, or now, or even expressed in the future that they plan to enter the satellite TV market.

Not true. There was an HD DirecTV TiVo box in years past and they're planning to release a new version this year.

I had forgotten about that which begs the question as to why DirectTV dropped it and began using their own equipment. Looks like customers were only lukewarm about it (2.5 stars out of 5) and it didn't support HD. I'm guessing that DirectTV couldn't afford to wait on Tivo for an HD model. Tivo did just announce 2 new HD DVRs, but neither supports satellite. So they have another coming out this year for DirectTV?

I had forgotten about that which begs the question as to why DirectTV dropped it and began using their own equipment. Looks like customers were only lukewarm about it (2.5 stars out of 5) and it didn't support HD. I'm guessing that DirectTV couldn't afford to wait on Tivo for an HD model. Tivo did just announce 2 new HD DVRs, but neither supports satellite. So they have another coming out this year for DirectTV?

DirecTV and TiVo did have an HD model. It was the HR10-250 and launched in 2004. It was actually the first HD box that TiVo had, well before the Series3 launched.

DirecTV dropped the TiVo agreement because they were bought by Rupert Murdoch and he owned a company that made competing DVR software (NDS). He thought they could do just as well with the NDS DVR software. After a few years of trying, I guess they discovered that wasn't the case since they've signed a new deal with TiVo. I don't think there's been an exact release date announced other than "this year".

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77

DirecTv still plans to keep marketing their own POS DVRs, as well as carrying the aforementioned DirecTvTivo, as a "premium" DVR.

On the Satellite Guys audio show last night Scott G. announced that Dish was already testing the uplink of a group of new HD channels. They included Epix (movie) Fashon, new Discovery Channel HD, Turner Classic Movies HD, and others I can't recall. Let's hope "testing" turns into reality.

Scott posted this last night as well! That guy really seems to have his finger on the pulse!

with the recent launch of new HD channels on the 129 and 72.7 satellite
locations, many customers require a migration to Western Arc.

Customers within the following DMAs are not eligible for the migration
promotion. If the 129 or 72.7 orbital locations are not currently on the
customer's account, we do not have a solution to view these new channels at
this time.

The following DMAs do not qualify for the migration to Western Arc
promotion:

* Anchorage, AK
* Albany, NY
* Bangor, ME
* Binghamton, NY
* Buffalo, NY
* Burlington, VT
* Fairbanks, AK
* Flint, MI
* Honolulu, HI
* Juneau, AK
* Portland-Auburn, ME
* Presque Isle, ME
* Providence, RI
* Puerto Rico
* Rochester, NY
* Syracuse, NY
* Traverse City-Cadillac, MI
* U.S. Virgin Islands
* Utica, NY
* Watertown, NY

This is just the opposite of what a Dish rep said last week. Sometimes I wonder if there is any truth left in this bbusiness. I just saw a Comcast commercial that said that they had 10 times as many HD channels as any satellite provider. I guess that that means they have 200 channels of PPV.

So.. after reading Satguys and the fiasco that upgrading is becoming for those not receving the latest 9 HD's and the fact that Burlington is not one of the locations that qualifies for WA(why would we really) I get off my butt and call..

OK, they have no idea what I am talking about. I explain. They made a call and come back stating that DISH is working on a solution but agree it could be after "Hell freezes over" that we get it. I explain the choices we have talked about here. Agreed that EA is the best choice with probably covering up 77 as its very weak. Then I would need to make a choice of 110 or 119 as a single. They stated I probably would lose some channels with choosing one over the other. Looks like FLAMPHER went with 110 for his situation. I have AEP with all HD and would hate to lose a favorite station. I need to pour over the channel lineups over in the Echostar Knowledge Base web site.

Now the "gotcha". If I go with my local installer I would have to pay for a service call and the 1000.4 dish!:eek: Not sure if these nine are really worth it but I don't see DISH giving me a discount cause I can't get them currently.:mad: I don't think my installer who I have used for 10 years now is trying to rip me off intentionally but rather is caught up in all this crap as well.
What to do. I think I'll wait til next week and call DISH and play CSR roulette. Ugh.

Your thoughts.

Oh I feel you pain! Yep, I have the 110 as a "wing dish". As far as I know the only thing I would lose, if I did not have that, is the locals in SD. The good news for us up here is that they are pulling the national channels off of 77(which is terrible up here) and are actually almost done. (sd stuff but still...).So if you are HD, and can live without VT ETV, or get it off air, probably don't need 110. I think this is accurate but you might be best advised to confirm it with others. The new HD is great, I get the Indie ch and Retro and they have become two of my favorites! I don't get HBO, Showtime etc.. So these are my movie channels .
Good Luck!

Also: This took an on-line chat, and several calls to Dish, asking, and explaining what I needed, and wanted. Then two calls by different techs. Very frustrating at the time! Glad that it is behind me now!

Why you guys are still anguishing over what the "correct" solution to get the additional HD channels is, I don't know. I posted how to get the new channels and what if any channels you'd lose. I thought I had things simplified, but I guess not. It's not a choice between either 119 or 110 as a wing. The wing would be 110, because it has VT PBS & a good chunk of PPV. All our other locals are on 61.5. More than half our customers say they never use PPV, don't care about PBS(or they get it off-air) and would prefer one dish anyhow. If someone has legacy equipment on the account, they can either upgrade it through the DIU program to work with this setup or they'll need to purchase a DPP44 switch because then they'd also need to pick up 119, because the legacy equipment can't see the channels coming from 72.

Because Dish doesn't have a "solution", calling to play CSR roulette should be fun, considering this means there's nothing in the flow charts to deal with our situation. If you think a minimum wage csr or an untrained 1-800 installer can think outside the box to come up with the solution I diagrammed for you over a month ago, I've got a bridge to sell you:rolleyes:.

When Dish says they don't yet have a "solution" what this means is, they haven't yet figured out if the cost of the upgrades is worth the few customers they may lose if they don't do the upgrades for little or nothing. The difference to us as dealers in the cost of a D500/61.5 wing setup compared to the 1000.4/110 wing setup we've been using is $30. Should we get reimbursed the difference? Of course, but because those channels are there on 72, we put up the right configuration to pull them in. Being as we're also DirecTv retailers, we pull in a good chunk of D500s for free from people who switch services, so we're not sweating the $30. Until such time as Dish comes up with this "solution" on their own, it means if you want the extra HD channels you either have to pay to get the job done or spend a few hours on the phone with CSRs clueless to our situation and the untrained 1-800 installers, but isn't the second way costing you more in time and aggravation?

For whomever it was who has had the dealer in Burlington for 10 years, if he doesn't believe what you tell him, have him email us(info@antennaman.tv), we've been selling & installing dishes for 30 years. If you're referring to MR Hoof Trimmer(yes that's what the card he used to hand out for the first couple of years he was hanging dishes for Digital One said), he can try to figure it out on his own.

For those who may have missed it or for whatever reason may have just cast the solution aside:rolleyes:, here's my post from a month ago.

Lord help us if anyone thinks Prime has a clue.:rolleyes:

There's no big deal or revolutionary new dish setup needed to pull in 72 around here, the only real issue is if you can get someone else to pay for the upgrade or if you're going to pay for it yourself.

All that's needed is a 1000.4 to get 61.5 & 72. If you're mid-state and down, you should get usable signals on 77 also. The problem with using just a 1000.4 is you'll not get the local PBS channels, which are on 110. Also missing will be a good chunk of the PPVs & public access channels. If you can live with out those channels, a 1000.4 dish is all you need.

If you do need any of the aforementioned channels, replace the current dish 500 which is receiving 119/110 with a 1000.4 and re-point the single lnb dish from 61.5 to 110. In the end you'd have a 1000.4 picking up 61/72 with a wing dish bringing in 110. This setup would allow you to feed up to 3 dual tuner receivers. If you need to also keep 119(because MPeg2 equipment won't see 72) or have more than 3 receivers or both, you'll need the DPP44 switch to see all four locations.

So if you can live without PBS(don't most of us get it off-air anyhow?) and some PPV & PI, a 1000.4 should be all you need.

That being said, Dish sent us dealers a memo yesterday saying they're "working on" a solution for paying us to do these upgrades, so customers won't have be subjected to the 1-800 "techs".:rolleyes:

OK I can see your an impatient man.

Yes I used MR out of Alburgh. I first called them in 2000 to put in a DirecTV setup for my new 16:9 Toshiba RP setup. Upgrades over the years(3rd lnb to get SHO-HD and 2nd dish to get BTV locals when they were available) and finally in early 2007 I switched over to DISH. They did an excellent job in all cases including fantastic in house wiring. Maybe over time things have changed and they're not what they might have been when I dealt with them. Couldn't tell ya. I may be wrong but I sense some tention. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway if you were to change my setup to what you describe which is pretty much what MR and I discussed about doing what would be the $$ quote I would expect from your outfit? Want to get a feeling if MR is ripping me off or not.

I have a single 622.

We bill a service call rate dependent upon distance traveled(minimum $75). The service call rate covers the travel & the first 15 minutes on site. After the first 15 minutes our rate is $65/hr/tech. Parts are additional.

A slightly different way to do what I diagrammed would be to remove the existing twin LNB from the current D500 and replace it with the DP single or dual that's on your 61.5 dish. Put this LNB in the 110 slot of the Y adapter, then replace the current 61.5 with a 1000.4. This would leave your current D500 intact should dish ever start shuffling slots around in the future and it would eliminate the need for the DPP44 you'd need if you left the twin on the D500.

No one is ripping you off if you agree to the price. We've done $3000 pre-wire jobs where the customer asks,"is that all?" then tip us $200. We've also had people call and complain how bad the untrained 1-800"techs"(these are what gets sent when you deal directly with Dish or DirecTv, a telemarketer or an online retailer. It's not a full service local retailer like ourselves or MR Hoof Trimmer), butchered their install at a previous house, ask us to wire the new one correctly, the whole time bitching about 1-800Dish/Direct, detailing a job as elaborate as the aforementioned $3000 one, then have the nerve to tell us we should do it for free, because Dish said it should be free. Ain't gonna happen. I don't know if they got it for free, but I do know it looks like a giant spider built a web on the side of their new house.

A slightly different way to do what I diagrammed would be to remove the existing twin LNB from the current D500 and replace it with the DP single or dual that's on your 61.5 dish. Put this LNB in the 110 slot of the Y adapter, then replace the current 61.5 with a 1000.4. This would leave your current D500 intact should dish ever start shuffling slots around in the future and it would eliminate the need for the DPP44 you'd need if you left the twin on the D500.
house.

This is what They did for me, except they left a single in the 119 slot also but unhooked.

This is what They did for me, except they left a single in the 119 slot also but unhooked.
What I:D would do if I was only using a single lnb on the D500 is replace the Y bracket, with an "I" bracket. It just makes it look nicer. For some reason I seem to be the only one who knows the "I" bracket exists or at least know where to get them or probably more likely, the only one who cares.:(:D

AntennaMan1,
What is wrong with this solution that Teacher1066 got?
"The Dish tech (Prime One) showed up today with a solution for the problem of getting the new HD channels. He used a Dish 500 Plus and an external 4 element switch. I now see the sats at 129 plus 110, 119 and 61.5. Problem solved. You might want to note this if you're going to do an upgrade."

I've seen some comments that the 1000.4 dish doesn't work that well in northern VT and the 500 Plus gets stronger signals. Your input would be appreciated.

Thanks AntennaMan1 for your information. MR was similar except it was $85 for the first 1/2hr and I beleive the same as yours for succeeding 1/2 hr's. The 1000.4 dish cost $149 as I was quoted. So probably the figure for doing this here will come to about ~ $300 I am guestimating.:o

I too wondered whether it just made sense to make the 500 into a single lnb for 110.

Well..ugh.. Looks like this will be an expensive upgrade if I decide these nine channels are really worth it at this time. Other then BBCA-HD(and that just for TopGear) I really could care less about the others. The additional SHO HD is just that, an additional movie HD channel which my AEP gives me plenty of anyway.

AntennaMan1,
What is wrong with this solution that Teacher1066 got?
"The Dish tech (Prime One) showed up today with a solution for the problem of getting the new HD channels. He used a Dish 500 Plus and an external 4 element switch. I now see the sats at 129 plus 110, 119 and 61.5. Problem solved. You might want to note this if you're going to do an upgrade."

I've seen some comments that the 1000.4 dish doesn't work that well in northern VT and the 500 Plus gets stronger signals. Your input would be appreciated.
Either works fine, it just depends on what you have LOS for. Assuming one already has a 61.5 dish, in all likelihood you can get 72. If you want to compare the two, you could say because of the angle of the dish, you'd collect more snow with 72, but with 129s low angle it has to receive signal though a larger amount of a storm.

I posted further back what we get on 61.5/72 with a 1000.4, I have one at home also, no rain fade yet.

When Dish first put up 129 they said the reason we wouldn't be getting our locals put at this location was because the signal was to low in our area. It didn't take long to compare with other dealers around the country to see that not only didn't we have low signal on 129, we had some of the highest signals from 129. Truth be told they didn't want to say that their 1-800"techs" would be NLOS on most installs because 129 comes in @ 13 degrees. We on the other hand had over 2000 C-band dishes able to see F1 which was at 8 degrees and a few at radio stations seeing F5 @ 5. We only get paid if we get the install done. 1-800 gets paid even to NLOS.

Both work, the only reason to pick one over the other is LOS, it just figures if you already get 61.5, most likely you'll get 72, the same can't be said about 129.

Back on the DISH/Tivo battlefront:

Tech Trader Daily

News, analysis and insights from Barron's Silicon Valley bureau.

March 24, 2010, 9:56 AM ET

TiVo Rallies On DISH Bid

By Eric Savitz
TiVo (TIVO) shares are rallying this morning, apparently on rumors that DISH Network (DISH) might attempt to solve its litigation troubles with the DVR company by simply buying it. Earlier this month, a federal appeals court found DISH in contempt of court in the companies’ ongoing dispute over TiVo’s DVR patents. A lower court found that DISH infringes on TiVo’s patents.

Briefing.com noted the rumor.

TIVO today is up 32 cents, or 2%, to $16.50.

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2010/03/24/tivo-rallies-on-dish-bid-rumor/

Dish 922
Do any of you folks have a Dish 922 yet? I have a few questions before I order one. Thanks.

Dish 922
Do any of you folks have a Dish 922 yet? I have a few questions before I order one. Thanks.This one gets a pass by me til it shakes out a bit.;)

I'm sure you have been following these threads:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-vip-922-support-discussion-forum/

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=178

Fpileggi, I agree...but it's amazing how strong the "call" for new electronic stuff can be--at least for me!
I had been to those sites but had missed an important thread so thanks so much for that tip!

Burlington, VT DMA Transitioning from Western Arc to Eastern Arc Designation

Effective April 21, 2010

April 12, 2010

Dear DISH Network® Retailer,

In order to streamline our business processes and launch more content, DISH Network plans to transition some DMAs from a Western Arc to Eastern Arc designation during the second quarter of 2010. Effective April 21, 2010, the Burlington, Vermont DMA will transition from a Western Arc designation to an Eastern Arc designation.

Burlington, VT DMA Transitioning from Western Arc to Eastern Arc Designation

Effective April 21, 2010

April 12, 2010

Dear DISH Network® Retailer,

In order to streamline our business processes and launch more content, DISH Network plans to transition some DMAs from a Western Arc to Eastern Arc designation during the second quarter of 2010. Effective April 21, 2010, the Burlington, Vermont DMA will transition from a Western Arc designation to an Eastern Arc designation.
Thanks for the update. How does that affect those of us still set up for 110/119/61.5? Should we go ahead and schedule an EA update now or wait until the 21st?
A little research shows that the E6 satellite has been moved to the 61.5 location because 61.5 is having issues. Apparently, it won't be operational until 4-21-2010. End result; I think converting to EA can be done now or later.

RUMOR
It is reported that Dish will add the following HD services next Monday:
Shorts HD
Epix HD
Style HD
Headline News HD
G4 HD
Turner Classic Movies HD
History Channel International HD
Nat Geo Wild HD

Looks like I gotta get off the fence and make a decision about those new HD channels. :D TCM-HD was one of the few HD's that I was waiting for.

teacher1066: Have you made any decision about that 922? I listened to SatGuys broadcast last night and to me it seems that the box is really not ready for primetime.

AntennaMan1: Just to clarify the transition from WA to EA for BTV is because the SD locals still come from a WA bird. Correct? I can't remember the last time I watched the SDs.

If we can get to just one dish instead of two here is a good thing!

I've decided (unfortunately for the first time in my life) that the 922 will not activate my "early adopter" button. The cautionary tale from current users tells me that this is one time to wait before leaping. Also, I would never buy a new unit unless it has both the HDMI and component outputs active at the same time. I can't seem to get a current 922 owner to let me know if this function works as it does on the 722.
I think that I'll be saving my tax rebate for a 3D projector. Wow, talk about Big Brother!
What's next, "Smell o Vision"?

The 3 PBS SD channels for the BTV DMA were uplinked to 61.5 starting last week. Dish just hasn't started activating them from that location yet. There's really no point to also put SD feeds of our locals on EA, because to get the full EA you need an MPeg4 receiver, which is also an HD receiver. The SD locals will be on 110 for quite so time, if not forever. The memo says we are to continue to use 119/110 for new customers wanting only SD & EA for new HD customers.

As for the 922, we haven't ordered any yet, though we have a few customers who'll take them when we think they're ready for primetime. I may have one sent tomorrow when we order some 211s & 722s, just to mess around with or not.

The memo says we are to continue to use 119/110 for new customers wanting only SD & EA for new HD customers.I'm a Dish customer and I have the TurboHD Bronze + Locals package. I have a Dish 500 (110/119) dish and 61.5 dish, and a ViP622 receiver. Will I loose any HD content (I don't care about SD) with the WA->EA switchover, or are we just talking about SD channels and HD channels in the higher tier packages?

I'm a Dish customer and I have the TurboHD Bronze + Locals package. I have a Dish 500 (110/119) dish and 61.5 dish, and a ViP622 receiver. Will I loose any HD content (I don't care about SD) with the WA->EA switchover, or are we just talking about SD channels and HD channels in the higher tier packages?
vttom: Have a look here to see whats on each bird. You can sort too.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?page=sub

I'm a Dish customer and I have the TurboHD Bronze + Locals package. I have a Dish 500 (110/119) dish and 61.5 dish, and a ViP622 receiver. Will I loose any HD content (I don't care about SD) with the WA->EA switchover, or are we just talking about SD channels and HD channels in the higher tier packages?
You are already missing some HD content by not being on EA or WA. And you will be missing more soon I am told.

For those of you who aren't fortunate enough to be paid to watch TV:D, the new Dish HD channels are on.

I got my Dish Network Eastern Arc installed today. The installer from Prime was knowledgeable, competent and did neat job with good signal strength. So now I have a 1000.4 dish for EA and a wing dish for the 110 channels. I asked about the need for the wing dish and he said there are still more than 30 SD channels plus VPT on 110. I wrestled with a Dish CSR via online chat trying to get a free upgrade but that didn't happen. The installer took several pictures of the installation for quality control saying he was glad to do it as it proved he did a good job. He even took pictures of the signal strength screens for each of the three satellites. Dish called a few hours later to check on my satisfaction. Looks like they finally got the message on customer service.

I finally... finally called DISH to get EA!;) The number I called was from the first post in this thread on SatGuys: http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/208638-61-5-hd-core-migrations-update.html .

Talked to a fellow named Eric who knew just what I needed. Best of all the install is set for tomorrow(Sat 4/24)! Hope all goes well. I'll report here! :D

Here is a list of channels that Dish says it has in HD as of today. Good luck with the install.
1. 5StarMAX HD
2. A&E HD
3. ABC Family HD
4. ActionMAX HD
5. Altitude
6. Animal Planet HD
7. BBC America HD
8. BET HD
9. Big Ten Network HD ²
10. Biography HD
11. Bravo HD
12. Cartoon Network (East) HD
13. CBS College Sports HD
14. Centric HD
15. Cinemax (East) HD
16. Cinemax (West) HD
17. CMT HD
18. CNBC HD
19. CNN HD
20. Comedy Central HD
21. Crime & Investigation HD
22. CSN Bay Area
23. CSN California
24. CSN Chicago
25. CSN Mid-Atlantic
26. CSN New England
27. Discovery Channel HD
28. Disney (East) HD
29. Disney XD HD
30. E! Entertainment Television HD
31. Encore (East) HD
32. EPIX 1 HD
33. ESPN HD
34. ESPN2 HD
35. ESPNEWS HD
36. Fashion TV HD
37. Food Network HD
38. Fox Arizona
39. Fox Business Network HD
40. Fox Cincinatti
41. Fox Detroit
42. Fox Florida
43. Fox Mid-West
44. FOX News Channel HD
45. Fox North
46. Fox Northwest
47. Fox Ohio
48. Fox Pittsburgh
49. Fox Rocky Mountain
50. Fox Soccer Channel HD
51. Fox South
52. Fox Southwest
53. Fox West
54. FX HD
55. G4 HD
56. Golf Channel HD
57. Hallmark Channel HD
58. Hallmark Movie Channel HD
59. HBO (East) HD
60. HBO (West) HD
61. HBO Comedy HD
62. HBO Family HD
63. HBO Latino HD
64. HBO Signature HD
65. HBO Zone HD
66. HBO2 (East) HD
67. HD Theater
68. HDNet
69. HDNet Movies
70. HGTV HD
71. History HD
72. History International HD
73. HLN HD
74. IndiePlex HD
75. Lifetime HD
76. Lifetime Movie Network HD
77. LOGO HD
78. MAVTV HD
79. MGM HD
80. msnbc HD
81. MTV HD
82. Nat Geo Wild HD
83. National Geographic Channel HD
84. NBA TV HD
85. New England Sports Network
86. NFL Network HD
87. NHL Network HD
88. Nickelodeon HD
89. Palladia HD
90. Planet Green HD
91. Prime Ticket
92. RetroPlex HD
93. Science Channel HD
94. SHortsHD
95. Showtime (East) HD
96. Showtime (West) HD
97. Showtime Showcase HD
98. Showtime Too HD
99. SPEED HD
100. Spike TV HD
101. Sports South
102. Sportsman Channel HD
103. SportsNet New York
104. SportsTime Ohio
105. Starz (East) HD
106. Starz (West) HD
107. Starz Comedy HD
108. Starz Edge HD
109. Starz Kids and Family HD
110. Style HD
111. Sun Sports
112. Syfy HD
113. TBS HD
114. Tennis Channel HD
115. The Movie Channel (East) HD
116. TLC HD
117. TNT HD
118. Travel Channel HD
119. truTV HD
120. Turner Classic Movies HD
121. Universal HD
122. USA HD
123. Versus HD
124. VH1 HD
125. Weather Channel HD
126. WGN America HD
127. World Fishing Network HD
128. ABC
129. CBS
130. FOX
131. NBC
132. Plus 74 DISH Cinema HD channels

installer from Prime was knowledgeable,

VPT on 110.
Let's quickly debunk these two notions.

Put your 622/722 on the Dish feed for 33 or 49 or 57. Now press the info button twice. Post what the number half way down, on the far left of the solid Info banner is.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Let's quickly debunk these two notions.

Put your 622/722 on the Dish feed for 33 or 49 or 57. Now press the info button twice. Post what the number half way down, on the far left of the solid Info banner is.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
61.5 So I'm guessing there are just some inconsequential SD channels on 110 and I could have been fine on just the 1000.4 as you said a while back. I almost asked him to forget the wing dish, but was afraid there might be something the wife watched on it. A quick check of a bunch of SD channels that I never watch showed they were all on 61.5 or 72, so I guess it would just be a few PPV SD channels on 110 that I wouldn't watch anyway, if even that. :eek:
So if you are an HD customer, you only need the EA dish, folks. AntennaMan1 is the man!

Jeff Rotax of Prime(Williston) showed up 10 minutes after the start of my scheduled install time(12-5). Nice fellow. His original work order showed him leaving my 110/119 in place alongside EA. I told him lets not bother with 110/119. Worry about it afterwards if we needed to. The install took 1 1/2hrs from start to finish. No heart stopping moments on my part except when he first went looking for a signal. ;). Its all there. Not missing a thing that I can see(have AEP/locals/Gold/Plat). I asked him if they are doing many new EAs. He said no, but lots of realigning calls. Good experience. Cost me the $15 but thats OK.;)

Well after three years the HDMI port on my VIP622 gave up the ghost. Called DISH. After countless automated questions to diagnose the problem finally got to a rep. Sending a unit out. Maybe I'll be lucky and its a 722 but really don't care. Here's the good part. Getting the promo for HBO and Shotime free for three months. I already have AEP so the drop in my bill is fine with me! And... I finally mentioned the extra $10 I'm still paying for Platinum and thats now gone too! :D Bummer tho... I'll have to catch Fringe on the internet. :o

You could have used component as a temporary measure, and better HDMI goes out on the 622 than on the TV. I had one of my 2 HDMI ports on my TV fail a year ago, so I ran component to the TV for direct viewing and HDMI to the AVR for home theater as the AVR is connected to the working HDMI port on the TV.

You could have used component as a temporary measure...
Yep thats my plan for Friday. I'll move off my recorded shows from Thursday on forward to my EHD to watch later. Hopefully everything will be back in the cabinet by Monday night.;)

I just came across this article thanks to Digg.

I mention it here because it sounds like it could affect just about all geo-stationary satellites between 133 degrees and 105 degrees West Long. over the next several months or more.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36919374/ns/technology_and_science-space/

Well, after all of the hassle of putting up 4 way switches and redirecting antennas to get 129, spring has burst forth with a neighbor's tree completely blocking the signal. Prime decided to install a Dish 1000.4 which gives me 72 to support the new HD offerings. Sadly, I've also lost some of the extarodinarly high signal levels I had with the other set up and the dish now sits squarely on my roof in full view--they are ugly. I suppose I shouldn't complain for I do have TV.
On a much more important subject however, it seems as though the Dish Net vs TIVO fight is really building. A number of news sources are reporting that Ergan and Dish are ready to again turn off our DVRs. Considering the rumors that abounded last time this issue came to the forefront, I don't know what to believe. Do any of you folks have a definitative information on this? I can't imagine TV without a DVR/receiver like the 722. Thanks for any insight you may have.

Nobody really knows. There is also a debate as to whether the VIP series is included in that as they are not included in the law suit. June 4th is not far away so I guess we will find out then. When asked if he was going to buy Tivo, Charlie said he hadn't thought about it instead of just saying no. Given that the Direct/Tivo project is now delayed until next year, maybe Charlie just doesn't see a future for Tivo. I read that licensing from Tivo would cost us about $2.35/month.

Nobody really knows. There is also a debate as to whether the VIP series is included in that as they are not included in the law suit. June 4th is not far away so I guess we will find out then. When asked if he was going to buy Tivo, Charlie said he hadn't thought about it instead of just saying no. Given that the Direct/Tivo project is now delayed until next year, maybe Charlie just doesn't see a future for Tivo. I read that licensing from Tivo would cost us about $2.35/month.
I'm not going to lose sleep over this. The whole Tivo case is starting to feel like the Circ... IMHO.... As Yogi said "it ain't over til its over." ;)

Well, after all of the hassle of putting up 4 way switches and redirecting antennas to get 129, spring has burst forth with a neighbor's tree completely blocking the signal. Prime decided to install a Dish 1000.4 which gives me 72 to support the new HD offerings. Sadly, I've also lost some of the extarodinarly high signal levels I had with the other set up and the dish now sits squarely on my roof in full view--they are ugly. I suppose I shouldn't complain for I do have TV.
So are you down to one dish now?

What my brain can't reconcile is why 77 is part of the EA. If many NE states like us have a hard time getting any signal at all and very weak at that what kind of strategy would they have to come up with if other then DMA locals are put on that bird? Another wing dish? :eek:

On a good note, EA has been fine here and its just funny to me when I look at all channels either in the guides or online not seeing the SD versions that came from 110. :D

I now only have one dish (1000.4) directed at 65.5 and 72. It is my understanding that Dish migrated the HD channels to this satellite to accomidate those of us in this area of the country.
Although my signal levels for 65.5 are down to 40-50 for most transponders, channel 5 peaks the meter at 95%. Anyone know if this can possibly accurate? Also, my levels for 72 range from 42-55 far from the 80-90 levels I enjoyed from 110 and 119. Also the new dish must also pick up the 77 satellite because when I check the installation and the Systen Info option, 77registers but comes up as a red "X"

I now only have one dish (1000.4) directed at 65.5 and 72. It is my understanding that Dish migrated the HD channels to this satellite to accomidate those of us in this area of the country.
Although my signal levels for 65.5 are down to 40-50 for most transponders, channel 5 peaks the meter at 95%. Anyone know if this can possibly accurate? Also, my levels for 72 range from 42-55 far from the 80-90 levels I enjoyed from 110 and 119. Also the new dish must also pick up the 77 satellite because when I check the installation and the Systen Info option, 77registers but comes up as a red "X"
Ditto here for TP 5 on 61.5. If I remember right this TP pegged out at over 100 with the wing dish. I also mirror your 72.7 numbers. As for 77 once.. once it didn't just go red. My 77 readings for TP's in the low numbers are anywhere between 2 and 28. The installer was actually surprised it was as high as it was when we were tweaking the dish. Thats why I wonder whats the point of this being part of EA.

I now only have one dish (1000.4) directed at 65.5 and 72. It is my understanding that Dish migrated the HD channels to this satellite to accomidate those of us in this area of the country.
Although my signal levels for 65.5 are down to 40-50 for most transponders, channel 5 peaks the meter at 95%. Anyone know if this can possibly accurate? Also, my levels for 72 range from 42-55 far from the 80-90 levels I enjoyed from 110 and 119. Also the new dish must also pick up the 77 satellite because when I check the installation and the Systen Info option, 77registers but comes up as a red "X"

I have had this 1k4 for awhile now. Since they moved national programs from 77 it(VIP 722) will quite often be yellow, or sometimes red w/x after a check switch. I just ignore that as there is nothing on that Sat for me anymore ,or 110 either for that matter, as PBS SD is now on 61.5. I really am quite pleased with the lack of rain fade even though the levels seem to be lower. (It does catch the snow a lot more however) . I am enjoying the latest HD releases also, and I can't believe all of the 110/119/61.5 installs there are everywhere still. They are missing some 20 HD channels now.

and I can't believe all of the 110/119/61.5 installs there are everywhere still. They are missing some 20 HD channels now.That's me. Guess it's time look up the listing of channels I'm supposed to get and compare it with what I actually get to see if a dish re-alignment is in my future.

WASHINGTON, May 14 (Reuters) - An appeals court that specializes in patent lawsuits vacated a Tivo win in a patent battle with Echostar (SATS.O) on Friday, sending Tivo shares down more than 38 percent.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit said that the entire court would participate in an en banc hearing to reconsider its March 4 decision in the case.
On March 4, the Federal Circuit had affirmed its contempt finding against Echostar and Dish (DISH.O) in their long-running patent fight with Tivo, which makes digital video recorders.

This is from the Satellite Guys Dish forum:

If anyone is subscribed to Gold HD but not getting Platinum HD and it's not an option on your Programming page at dish's website, do these few simple steps:


"1. Sign into your online account and click on “Programming” link on the left side of the page.
2. Under HD Programming options uncheck all of your current HD package(s).
3. Click “Review and Order” at the bottom of the page. (Verify all HD Package(s) were removed)
4. Click on the red “Back” button at the bottom of the page. You should see the “HD & Platinum” option.
5. Click on HD & Platinum for $10.
6. Click on “Review and Order” button. (Verify combined “HD & Platinum” package was added.)
7. Click on “Order” button. You should see the Platinum HD channels on your screen in 5-15 minutes.

I just did it and it worked!!! I had Platinum HD within 2 minutes!"

I personally accomplished the same thing via Dish Online Chat when I told the CSR that I didn't want to pay $10 extra for Platinum HD. After a few minutes of argument he offered HD with Platinum for $10 (the same as just the HD package). My bill dropped by $10/month right away.
It is rumored with addition of additional HD channels this week, that Platinum HD will again be an extra $10 starting June 3, but those with the HD plus Platinum package will be grandfathered and not have to pay the extra $10. Most service will increase by $2 on June 3 anyway.

The HD pack is going to $0 with a 2 year commitment and ccap. Think how the one cent Cinemax deal was setup. The Platinum HD will cost $10. So HD & Plat will be $10, as it is now, and if you don't want Plat, you can drop your bill $10.

So far Scott over at Satguys has not seen any documentation for those folks that have AEP(like I do). So I see a scenario where I get a $2 hit for the AT250 part of AEP and another $2 for having more then two prems. Would be nice to keep this second increase this year to a minimum.

So I went looking ay my DishNetwork bill recently and noticed that it's actually gone down. Apparently my TurboHD Bronze package switched over to something called "Dish America". When that happened, my bill dropped by $5. I also noticed the the "Leased Receiver Fee" has gone away and now there's a "DVR Fee". Does this mean that I now own the receiver? It's a Vip622 that I've had for at least 3 yrs in case it matters.

Some interesting possibilities from Dish Net this fall:
Google and DISH Network L.L.C., America's fastest-growing pay-TV provider, today unveiled the launch of Google TV, an open platform that seamlessly integrates multichannel television with rich web media content. This technology brings the full power of the Internet to the television viewing experience.

Google TV merges traditional TV programming with the wide amount of content on the web, allowing viewers unprecedented access, control, and flexibility over all forms of digital content. DISH Network subscribers using Google TV can simultaneously search for content across DISH Network, the Internet and their DVRs. They can overlay online content related to television shows, movies, actors and more; and also hyperlink web content back to multichannel TV.

Anyone else having a problem with ABC (WVNY) whereby there is no sound from the surround speakers? The receiver shows the signal as locked in as DD 5.1. But the two rear surrounds have no sound. Its not the program, I've noticed this on programs absolutely have surround soundtracks (eg the movie Transformers was broadcast last night).

There was nothing from the rear channels on the finale of Lost on Sunday. Lost is usually pretty rich from a surround standpoint, so I'd say there is something wrong.

If you don't have just the rear pair of audio, the originating station has lost one of it's 3 audio pairs to the Dolby encoder.
(Typically TV stations have 3 AES pairs of audio to the dolby encoder.)
PR1= L+R
PR2= C/LFE
PR3= Ls/Rs

2.1 and 17.1 from Montreal are coming in with a strength of 75% and 95% this morning. 6.1 not strong enough to lock.

poked around the last few pages of the thread, but couldn't find any answers to my problem.

i recently set up an extra HDTV with a small directional outdoor antenna (Philips MANT940 UHF Digital and Analog Indoor/Outdoor Antenna) & can pick up all the broadcast stations easily, except WVNY-DT (22.1). i did have it tuned in once briefly before the TV lost it. now i get nothing except a "channel not found" message from the set. i live in the underhill flats area and have a direct line of sight to the towers on mt mansfield less than 7 miles away. am i doing something wrong or missing something? besides wvny that is.

thanks

poked around the last few pages of the thread, but couldn't find any answers to my problem.

i recently set up an extra HDTV with a small directional outdoor antenna (Philips MANT940 UHF Digital and Analog Indoor/Outdoor Antenna) & can pick up all the broadcast stations easily, except WVNY-DT (22.1). i did have it tuned in once briefly before the TV lost it. now i get nothing except a "channel not found" message from the set. i live in the underhill flats area and have a direct line of sight to the towers on mt mansfield less than 7 miles away. am i doing something wrong or missing something? besides wvny that is.

thanks
Your problem is that WVNY is broadcast on Chan 13 which is VHF and your antenna is UHF only. You could add a small VHF only with a UHF/VHF combiner or switch to a UHF/VHF antenna. I have a Channel Master CM2016 (small outdoor UHF/VHF) I don't need. If interested, PM me. I live west of Morrisville.

Your problem is that WVNY is broadcast on Chan 13 which is VHF and your antenna is UHF only. You could add a small VHF only with a UHF/VHF combiner or switch to a UHF/VHF antenna. I have a Channel Master CM2016 (small outdoor UHF/VHF) I don't need. If interested, PM me. I live west of Morrisville.

oy... more equipment...

may be a tough question to answer, but would an indoor antenna cut it? thanks for clearing this up for me.

Possibly, but less likely as it will have to go thru the walls of your house which will cut the signal. The only way to know for sure is to try it, but the CM-2016 VHF/UHF should be a no brainer and used, probably no more than a good indoor antenna.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=CM2016&d=Channel-Master-CM2016-HDTV-VHF-High-Band-and-UHF-Antenna-%28CM2016%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=

oy... more equipment...

may be a tough question to answer, but would an indoor antenna cut it? thanks for clearing this up for me.FWIW... I live in Essex Center with LoS to the Mansfield towers. I have one of these (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=SDV2780&d=Philips-SDV2780-Silver-Sensor-Indoor-UHFHDTV-Digital-TV-Antenna-(SDV2780)-DTV1&c=TV%20Antennas%20-%20Indoor%20Only&sku=609585160361) in an upstairs bedroom pointed straight at the towers and I get everything (including WVNY).

oy... more equipment...

may be a tough question to answer, but would an indoor antenna cut it? thanks for clearing this up for me.
I found this page that addresses the new designs of a few popular antennas. Strangely, most are not as good as what they replaced. The exception is the Antennas Direct Clearstream 2 (replaces DB2) and Clearstream 4 (replaces DB4). The CS2 is sold by Antennas Direct as an outdoor antenna, but has consistently along with the DB2 been ranked as the best indoor antenna. You just need to devise your own stand for it. The real news is although the CS2 is not any better for VHF, the CS4 is a decent VHF performer, and is thought to be a very good medium gain UHF/VHF antenna. If you could put it in a closet or on the wall behind a curtain, it would be my choice for an indoor antenna.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html

2.1, 6.1, 17.1 and 35.1 out of Montreal are all coming in great here in Monkton, VT tonight. Pretty rare to get a lockable signal on those here...Must be weather-related.

Thanks for this report. I am bound and determined to catch one of these signals sooner or later. Please continue to let us know about this.

poked around the last few pages of the thread, but couldn't find any answers to my problem.

i recently set up an extra HDTV with a small directional outdoor antenna (Philips MANT940 UHF Digital and Analog Indoor/Outdoor Antenna) & can pick up all the broadcast stations easily, except WVNY-DT (22.1). i did have it tuned in once briefly before the TV lost it. now i get nothing except a "channel not found" message from the set. i live in the underhill flats area and have a direct line of sight to the towers on mt mansfield less than 7 miles away. am i doing something wrong or missing something? besides wvny that is.

thanks

I'm just down the road in Jericho with LOS to Mansfield. I know I'm a little late in responding (haven't checked into the forum in months) but I went with a Winegard HD1080 when we dropped cable a couple years ago purely for the reason of 22 being on the VHF frequency. It's been working great for us with an attic install. I briefly had it in the cabinet behind the TV (32" LCD) before I moved it to the attic and it worked well there also. It's a little bigger than the DB2 mentioned but could be creatively placed between a couch and the wall.

I also tested the Winegard HD1080, and with LOS and 14 miles from the towers, it worked well mounted on the eave of my house. The Channel Master 2016 wasn't bad either (although lower UHF signal), but didn't get great review on HDTVprimer.

I notice the other day that the huige, old WVNY tower has disappeared from Mansfield's face. Are the other analogue towers coming down this summer? Or have they already?

I was hiking up Mansfield yesterday and its all gone..the towers, all the cabling etc etc..The house where the control stuff was kept at the top of the access road is still there allbeit gutted; the nature center in the front is still intact.

Are the Montreal stations operating at decent power yet? I want to pull them in too....

No but work has started on Mt Royal and should be completed by the end of August 2010, it will allow stations to move their digital transmitter to Mt Royal instead of rooftops.

poked around the last few pages of the thread, but couldn't find any answers to my problem.

i recently set up an extra HDTV with a small directional outdoor antenna (Philips MANT940 UHF Digital and Analog Indoor/Outdoor Antenna) & can pick up all the broadcast stations easily, except WVNY-DT (22.1). i did have it tuned in once briefly before the TV lost it. now i get nothing except a "channel not found" message from the set. i live in the underhill flats area and have a direct line of sight to the towers on mt mansfield less than 7 miles away. am i doing something wrong or missing something? besides wvny that is.

thanks

Aside from the obvious answer given to you regarding a UHF antenna attempting to pick up a VHF station, keep in mind that with all this heat and humidity, tropospheric ducting is running rampant in the northeast...for those in the southern area of the reception range of WVNY RF 13, WNYA RF 13 out of Albany may be interfering with WVNY's RF 13 signal....just a point to consider if WVNY has gone away for you...

Another junk Phillips antenna claiming to be "HDTV", when in fact it's just UHF.
Ticks me off these companies were allowed to get away with this.

Another junk Phillips antenna claiming to be "HDTV", when in fact it's just UHF.
Ticks me off these companies were allowed to get away with this.

Yes, for us in the know, we dodge these people....for some of those new to this project, they get sucked in like a vacuum....I feel sorry for them...

I was wondering if any of you early adopters have seen the 3D channels on Direct? If so, I'd like to hear your reactions. Thanks

I was wondering if any of you early adopters have seen the 3D channels on Direct? If so, I'd like to hear your reactions. Thanks
The reviewers on CNET said that it literally made them ill.

I checked out the Pany 3D set at Best Buy and was surprised by the quality of the effect. Unfortunately the screen image dims by at least a third and the glasses are...how does one say this politely....crap.
I'll pass on this for a few years but would still like to hear reports from others as the technology progresses.

I had checked out the Panny at BB the other day but walked away grumbling because I didn't see any effect at all! When Mr Techo Geek, AKA teacher1066:D appended here about his experience I had to see if I was just doing something wrong. Yup, the glasses weren't turned on or the battery was dead... OK I admit I didn't do much research on this 3D stuff but battery powered?:confused:

Today the experince with the demo running was fun and sure looked better then my 1950's experiences. Yes the demo is going to play to this. Ie; the fish swimming and going down the rapids. They got to lose the glasses before mainstream is going to buy in on this. I wonder if a panel maybe removable or such sitting in front of the actual screen could create the same effect or do we really need something close to our eyes. The cost of the active glasses alone would prevent me from inviting a string of friends over to view some progam.

For sure I will wait on this myself. Fun to see though just like Futurama was at the WF in 1964.

I was at that world fair on Long Island and remember fondly exhibits like "building the highways of tomorrow" exhibit. If only those predictions had come to pass.
I have read in the journals that work is being done on a "no glasses" technology. One this is for sure, however, I've never seen so many companies jump on a technology's concept this early in the game. Of course, none of them seemed to have learned a damn thing from the HD DVD vs Blu-ray battle either....so many systems, so few dollars.

... I've never seen so many companies jump on a technology's concept this early in the game. Of course, none of them seemed to have learned a damn thing from the HD DVD vs Blu-ray battle either....so many systems, so few dollars.
Agree with you there! What I've read is there seems to be two camps of 3D standards being discussed... Ugh another battle. So we wait.

Meanwhile on another topic I'm excited about the new DISH bird going in place at 61.5 by August and replacing E3(I think) . :D

Work has begun on upgrades to the Mt. Royal tower to accomodate digital broadcasting. Rumors are that CBC will start high power digital from the tower this fall, but CTV will just do a flash cut from analog to digital next August when required by the CRTC.

There are two interesting pictures of the work in posts on this page: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=107974&page=119

Thanks for the info. It will be interesting to see if we can pick up the new transmissions. Let us know what you find....

From the Montreal forum today:

"I learned that CBFT DT and CBMT DT will transmit from Mt-Royal this fall at 100KW each !

And after aug 31, 2011, they will transmit full power at 450 Kw

the infos come from the Engineering of CBC MTL"


At even 100KW those of us in VT with some northern exposure should be able to get the CBC this fall. They are currently at much lower power from the top of a building in downtown Montreal, so the increase in elevation and power should do wonders.

Bruce, would you check that I have the correct digital channel numbers for the Montreal stations. thanks

CBFT 2 - 19 - 19
CBMT 6 - 20 - 21
CFTM 10 - 59 - 10
CFCF 12 - 21 - 12
CIVM 17 - 27 - 26
CFTU 29 - 54 - 29
CFJP 35 - 42 - 35
CKMI 46 - 51 - 51
CJNT 62 - 69 - 49



I can never get WVNY here in the Glens Falls area...never...
Yesterday, 10:30 a.m., I turned the beams north and there it was, at 37% SS, solid, not bouncing....weird...
Did WVNY up their power? Or was Mother Nature just giving me an incredible push?

I had some trouble decoding your long string of ID's; not quite enough separators as it showed up in my browser.

The best source to track what's happening is this table: http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/QC.html

It can get pretty confusing. For example, CFCF analog Ch12 is authorized to do some digital testing on Ch21 but likely will just flash cut from analog to digital on Ch12 in August, 2011. Once Ch21 is officially clear, then CBMT (analog CH6) which is currently on low power digital on Ch20 will move to CH21. These moves are similar to WCAX occupying Ch53 until WVNY moved to digital CH13 and then WCAX moved to digital CH22. These post transition, final assignments are indicated by a PT symbol in the table. Note that it may get even more confusing if a delay is permitted by the CRTC because if some stations don't move on schedule, it upsets other reassignments.

I apologize for they way the table was changed when I posted it and do know how much I appreciate your input. As always, when you get new info please post for all of us.
By the way, if any of you folks are interested, I am tossing 5 years back issues of Widescreen Review. I consider it to be a valuable reference tool if you're really into home theatre but I just don't have any room left. Send me a private message if you want them. I am in Williston.

I can never get WVNY here in the Glens Falls area...never...
Yesterday, 10:30 a.m., I turned the beams north and there it was, at 37% SS, solid, not bouncing....weird...
Did WVNY up their power? Or was Mother Nature just giving me an incredible push?

Was WNYA off the air? as they also occupy rf13. I get WVNY sometimes and other times I get WNYA, but never do I get them both at the same time by moving my antenna. Quite often I get neither. (same problem I have with rf 43)
I have heard of no power boost, and have not noticed any change here.

I can never get WVNY here in the Glens Falls area...never...
Yesterday, 10:30 a.m., I turned the beams north and there it was, at 37% SS, solid, not bouncing....weird...
Did WVNY up their power? Or was Mother Nature just giving me an incredible push?

Tropo. There has been some really good "north bound" tropo lately.

Was WNYA off the air? as they also occupy rf13. I get WVNY sometimes and other times I get WNYA, but never do I get them both at the same time by moving my antenna. Quite often I get neither. (same problem I have with rf 43)
I have heard of no power boost, and have not noticed any change here.

That morning, both were visable, both about the same SS...depending on antenna direction, of course....I haven't been able to get WVNY since that morning, so I guess it was just really good tropo...oh well, it was fun while it lasted....RF 43 issues don't exist here, WCWN is just too strong....sometimes the tropo drops SS on WCWN by 10% SS, but is still not an issue...

I had some trouble decoding your long string of ID's; not quite enough separators as it showed up in my browser.

The best source to track what's happening is this table: http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/QC.html

It can get pretty confusing. For example, CFCF analog Ch12 is authorized to do some digital testing on Ch21 but likely will just flash cut from analog to digital on Ch12 in August, 2011. Once Ch21 is officially clear, then CBMT (analog CH6) which is currently on low power digital on Ch20 will move to CH21. These moves are similar to WCAX occupying Ch53 until WVNY moved to digital CH13 and then WCAX moved to digital CH22. These post transition, final assignments are indicated by a PT symbol in the table. Note that it may get even more confusing if a delay is permitted by the CRTC because if some stations don't move on schedule, it upsets other reassignments.

More precisley, the middle numbers are not for "testing" but rather transitional channels.
CFCF never applied to use its transitional allocation on 21, and CFTM, while it did get a license for a transitional operation on UHF, has no intention of using it. Both stations will flash cut August 31 next year to 12 and 10 respectively. In Canada, there is no requirement to actually broadcast digitally during the transtion period. The only rule is that analog broadcasts in mandatory markets must end on August 31 2011.

CBMT is on very low power not because it's a transitional station but because of the moratorium on new transmitters on the Mount Royal tower due to Health Canada Code 6 RF violations. The work to correct the violation is currently underway, and CBMT and CBFT should each be at 100 kW by year end.
Until then, CBMT and CBFT-DT are transmitting from the top of their building.
CFJP broadcasts from the top of a building in east end Montreal, and CIVM broadcasts from the top of the Olympic Stadium mast. Apparently, neither plans to revert to the Mount Royal tower (probably due to the cost -- ertainly for CFJP, which just emerged from bankruptcy protection.)

CKMI will be using the Mount Royal tower next year.

While the CBC has applied for a delay in some other markets, Montreal should be transitioning on time next August 31.


TVl

Thanks...great info. I must admit that I know virtually nothing about the physics of broadcast television, but I find it difficult to imagine getting CFCF on 12 given my problems with WVNY (13) in my back yard. For me it's a shame because I really wanted to see a CTV affiliate.
Indeed, I wish the FCC would force WVNY to go back to channel 16 which, I believe, was their original designation. I don't understand why these guys want to go to the VHF band when it seems to cause so many reception problems. Alas, I suppose most folks get their signals from cable or satellite and I did note that one member of this forum mentioned that VHF signals actually travelled further. I suppose that would open up more of the Montreal market to WVNY.

I've seen a tremendous increase in the signal strength for WCFE in the last few days. i am getting a level of 85-90 off the back of my Terk indoor amplified antenna. It is great as their PBS feed often seems sharper...probably because they don't do as much sub channel broadcasting as WETK or they allow lesser bandwidth on the sub channels. Any one else find this?

I'm seeing it also. In the past WCFE hasn't been watchable at all when the leaves are on the trees. Signal strength is in the 30% - 40% range and frequently doesn't lock. Checked it last week and it's in the 50's and 60's. I successfully recorded a 90 minute show last week with just a couple of minor breakups. So something has changed for the good.

I suppose that would open up more of the Montreal market to WVNY.

Not really -- WVNY went from the easiest American station to get in Montreal (in many areas, an indoor bowtie loop antenna got a watchable signal), to the hardest to get (WVNY only sends1 to 2 kW northwards towards Montreal, and it is subject to FM harmonic interference, adjacent channel interference from channel 12, and co-channel interference from stations in Trois Rivieres and Ottawa. ) By contrast, WCAX, which on channel 3 was the hardest station to get without a rooftop antenna, is now one of the easiest.

Wow, that's interesting and begs the question of why WVNY decided to change their channel designation from the original 16 to 13. At one point in the process, I asked them about this and never got a reply. I know that some of the largest and most influential stations in the country, like WHDH in Boston, actually changed back to the UHF band when they saw what actual practice got them in their switch from the FCC's original designation. I wish WVNY would have a similar "awakening" but I suppose they are OK with what would seem to be a diminished audience. I'll never understand why the FCC, with all of the digital channels available in every market, allowed stations to select to return to the VHF band.

I took the kids up to Stowe for the gondola ride - I captured a couple of shots of the finished product in case anyone is interested in what they actually look like.

I took the kids up to Stowe for the gondola ride - I captured a couple of shots of the finished product in case anyone is interested in what they actually look like.
Wow! Thanks for the pics. The regular OTA folks will chime in for sure. BTW it must of been a beautiful day up at the top.

I took the kids up to Stowe for the gondola ride - I captured a couple of shots of the finished product in case anyone is interested in what they actually look like.

Thanks!

I took the kids up to Stowe for the gondola ride - I captured a couple of shots of the finished product in case anyone is interested in what they actually look like.

Pardon my ignorence, I'm unaware from the Glens Falls area, but what is "the finished product"? A tv transmitter? If so, what channel?

Pardon my ignorence, I'm unaware from the Glens Falls area, but what is "the finished product"? A tv transmitter? If so, what channel?
He's talking about the completion of a very long process to convert the TV transmission facilities on top of Mount Mansfield from NTSC analog to HDTV digital.

The new digital tours went operational a couple of years ago. The old analog towers came down this summer.

Here're a couple of references:

http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/vermont_hd_transmission_facilities/

http://www.fybush.com/site-020814.html

Thank you....

FYI... for Montreal DT stations

Reports bouncing around have CBFT-DT (2.1, rf19), and CBMT-DT (6.1, rf 20) broadcasting from Mount-Royal sometime in December 2010. Both will not be at full power until Sept. 1, 2011

Also, CKMI-TV 46 has applied for a modification in it's DT application. They want to use rf15 for their DT signal. We'll see what happens with that.

For those having some signal drops with their reception, I use the Channel Master 3412. This seems to help me be able to lock on to WFFF-DT (44.1, rf43) here in Montreal. Perhaps it can help some of you as well with some of your reception problems.

great info...thanks

Has anyone else noticed that WPTZ has been transmitting in 5.0 instead of 5.1? Does anyone here have a way to contact the the tech staff and let them know?

Just call the main number and ask for engineering. They may also have a web-contact email.
I know when emails are sent to our station, the chief does get them and passes them on (usually to me) about any issues we have.

I noticed WPTZ has a lot of "ghosting" after 9pm... anyone else notice this and know why?? It was fine during chuck and horrible during the event. Aslo getting alot a grain/noise in my image too on this channel lately.

I just checked my DVR recording of The Event from Dish and didn't notice any problems. I think that Dish gets the signal over the air now not the fiber line they used to have with the locals.
I emailed the engineering department at WPTZ twice and have never had a response. Perhaps they were all in a session learning to count time. They have met the NBC evening news broadcast correctly only ONCE in over two months. Perhaps a small thing but it speaks to the professionalism of the operation. Considering the fact that they are the only major local that has not gone HD with their studio signal one wonders what advantage there is in being owned by Hearst Broadcasting....

No one is having this problem with WPTZ,,, it's like there's lag in the picture when people are moving... happened again with Parenthood tonight.
OTA in Mtl.

Pretty sure that DishNet gets an OTA feed because when I have problems with a local station and switch to OTA, I see the same problem.

Just call the main number and ask for engineering. They may also have a web-contact email.
I know when emails are sent to our station, the chief does get them and passes them on (usually to me) about any issues we have.

I went to their website and sent an email to the "news tips". Told them that I had a news flash and that there was a station in Vermont that was transmitting 5.0 audio when it should be 5.1 and that station was them. Now, I don't know if that message went to the right people, but the audio is now correct.

@ Superman2...
Picture and sound here OTA from Montreal is OK.

Great, so it's me then... but when it happens the other channels are ok

Great, so it's me then... but when it happens the other channels are ok

My Insignia box had an issue that showed up on one channel versus others.
There was no rhyme or reason for it.
So it is very possible you have an issue like that with DTV.

Tonight for the first time two syndicated shows (Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune) were shown in HD. So it appears that the long awaited hardware upgrades have finally arrived and that they can record locally in HD. Jeopardy seemed a bit jerky at times indicating missed frames and perhaps a bandwidth problem or learning curve, but still a big step.

Awesome! Sorry I missed it.

Tonight for the first time two syndicated shows (Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune) were shown in HD. So it appears that the long awaited hardware upgrades have finally arrived and that they can record locally in HD. Jeopardy seemed a bit jerky at times indicating missed frames and perhaps a bandwidth problem or learning curve, but still a big step.

Maybe this means they will get their PSIP information correct as well?
Time change when it occurs
Correct programming data for 5-1 and 5-2.

~ryan

OK I realize most of you are probably smug with the feeling that the current tussle with Fox(not FX and NatGeo) and DISH doesn't affect you because you either receive the signal OTA or don't care either way. I know from what I've read that Smith Media Group owns both ABC and FOX here so we should not be affected by the 11/1 cutoff date if no settlement is reached but what of the future? If when the contract comes up(anybody know when?) and nothing is resolved to anyone's good even OTA could be affected.

Any thoughts?

Starting yesterday (10/24) or maybe the day before, the picture coming out of my DishNetwork ViP622 has a weird aspect-ratio problem....

When viewing an HD channel, instead of getting a proper 16:9 widescreen picture, I'm seeing something that looks like the frame has been cropped to 4:3, and then stretched to fill the screen.

I've double- and triple-checked the aspect-ratio settings on my TV, so I'm positive it's not that. I've also tried cycling the 622's settings between the various aspect ratio settings, and a hard reboot, and nothing I do fixes the problem.

This is happening for every channel, whether from satellite or OTA antenna.

Does anyone else on this forum have this problem or is it just me? I wonder if it's a hardware problem or if Dish rolled out a software change that adversely affected my receiver?

I have no problems like that on my VIP722. There are software "upgrades" going on now however..
My receiver got the upgrade a couple of weeks ago with no aspect ratio problems observed

My wife accidentally did the same a couple of days ago. After fiddling with the TV aspect for a while I finally tried the Format button on the Dish remote and it fixed the problem. Fortunately, I had been watching when the changed happened and it was while she was trying to hit the skip forward button, but pushed Format by accident so I knew it was something she had done.

My wife accidentally did the same a couple of days ago. After fiddling with the TV aspect for a while I finally tried the Format button on the Dish remote and it fixed the problem. Fortunately, I had been watching when the changed happened and it was while she was trying to hit the skip forward button, but pushed Format by accident so I knew it was something she had done.Hmm... My Dish remote doesn't have a Format button. To mess with the resolution and aspect ratio setting you have to go through about 3 layers of menus.

I did figure out last night, however, that if I choose "4x3#2" as the aspect ratio instead of "16x9", then the picture comes out right. It's as if the behaviors associated with "4x3#2" and "16x9" have been accidentally reversed.

For now, I'll just leave it. If/when Echostar figures out what they did wrong, it'll probably mess up the aspect ratio again and I'll have to go back in and change it back to 16x9.

I briefly considered calling Dish's tech support, but I dread the thought of trying to explain to them the subtlety of this problem. Most people just don't get aspect ratio.

I have a VIP622 also and the Format button is the lowest left button.

I have the 622 and the 722 remotes and an old one from one of the first HD receivers and they all have the format button which, SkiSmugs notes, is located on the lowest tier of buttons on the left. After my godson played with my remote, it took me almost a day to figure out what had happened. I think that you might want to go back into the menus and return them to their previous settings and then apply the "format" button.

Hey all,

So I was thinking this year that I might try to pay to upgrade my in-laws DirectTV service to include a DVR. I don`t know if they are still in the middle of a contract but I suspect they might now be month to month. They don`t currently have an HD package and have just one TV in the house (a 27ish -in 720p set I think). I logged onto their DirectTV account on-line it looked like $99 + $12/month for an SD DVR upgrade and then $199+$17/month for HD. Anyone know of a more economical option or offers that I can be looking into? Are older DVRs (that are still supported) available on ebay that could be self installed?

Thanks in advance.

Hi all -

So, looking for suggestions. I've been very very happy with our OTA programming coming off Mt Mansfield and haven't had any real reason to want to try to see if I can get any other stations until now. I just discovered that WCFE has been carrying the TVGOS programming information since June 2009. Apparently we just got enough of a signal the other night for my DVR to recognize it and pick it up for a moment. Of course now I'm interested to see if I can do an easy modification to pull in that signal.

I have an attic install of a Winegard HD-1080 antenna mounted to the inside of the east exterior wall of the attic with no amplifier of any sort. The signal is split 1:2 (passive) at the end of a ~50' run of RG58 coax from the antenna to the basement and then 1:3 (passive) in our entertainment cabinet (into TV, DVR, and AV receiver - probably another 10' of coax in the wall to an outlet, then 5-6' to the 1:3 splitter, then 3' to each component).

I was thinking maybe something very simple like a dipole with 300 ohm wire and feed in into the same transformer that attaches my current antenna to the coax (maybe mounted on the west side of the attic properly aligned). I'm a little worried that the run from there to the TV would then be overly long and wouldn't really improve my situation.

So, if this was your situation, and you only wanted to spend <$50, what would you try?

Thanks in advance

Probably another uhf antenna pointed to the transmitter in NY and a ch 38 Tenna joiner, (I think that's the name). You do not want to start getting Mt Mansfield signals from two sources and add multi-path problems. I imagine in Jericho the signal is pretty high. I know as you get into Pleasant Valley the signal bounces around and hits the same antenna at slightly different times and causes problems . by adding a second antenna. (dipole or whatever) you would be mixing the same freq. at slightly different times and could be a problem. those "joiners" just pass the cut frequency, although they are cheap and would attenuate adjacent channels. I have not used them for years but I have seen them offered as a solution for your problem in other forums. I envy your "problem" You should see the antennas in Sudbury, Vt. I have . Signals from Mt Mansfield are pretty poor except NBC, but I get Albany pretty good and WCFE is perfect, (I have a rotor) .

Do you really have rg58? I think that's 50 ohms, RG59 is 75 ohm tv cable, although it has a lot of loss
Oh, I would avoid twin lead at all costs