i have a directv system is there any way to get hd locals in vt? do the off air antennas work here? if anyone know fill me in

Dt33b; It depends where you live in VT. If you live near/in Castleton the DNS waiver method seems like it should work. However if you are closer to BTV (by the Directv website) then you are not eligible for SD national locals and therefore (!) HD national feeds from Directv.

I tried waivers and all 4 BTV stations declined.

There are a few HD OTA stations going; Near/above BTV is Mountain lake PBS in northern NY, eastern VT has WNNE NBC as well as a PBS station on Ascutney, and a few others deep in New Hampshire.

I hear the construction on Mansfield goes well and so they hopefully will have all 5 networks OTA off the mountain by this time next year.

Here is the link to the Directv waiver site. Good luck.

http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp

Just happened to notice this on VPT's website (http://www.vpt.org)...


VPT High Definition Programs Coming to Adelphia

November 30, 2005

Vermont Public Television and Adelphia Communications announced today that Adelphia Cable will add VPT high definition (HD) starting Dec. 1.

Adelphia will preview Vermont Public Television's high definition programming to all HD customers from Dec. 1 to 13, and will officially launch the channel Dec. 14. VPT HD will be available on Adelphia channel 733. VPT's standard definition programming will continue to be carried on Adelphia's Basic level of service.

VPT HD will offer a wide variety of PBS programming 24 hours a day. Highlights of the December schedule (see VPT's Digital Programming Guide) will include a Christmas concert with Renee Fleming, the reunion concert of the rock group Cream and beautifully photographed nature specials about Niagara Falls and Kilimanjaro.

VPT HD will be available on Adelphia throughout Vermont and in Lebanon, Littleton and Plymouth, N.H., markets and will be available to Adelphia customers at any level of service, if their home is HD-ready. Adelphia customers must have a high definition TV set and Adelphia's HD or HD/DVR combo converter box ($8.95 per month).

High definition programming provides clear, movie-quality images and Dolby 5.1 digital surround sound.

Vermont Public Television was the first station in Vermont with over-the-air digital broadcasting, beginning in 2003 on its Windsor channel. VPT launched its Rutland channel this year and will begin service from St. Johnsbury in spring 2006. In fall 2006, VPT's Burlington channel and the other northern Vermont TV channels will begin digital service over the air.

Adelphia is able to offer VPT's digital and HD programming now because it has a direct fiber optic connection to VPT.

Vermont Public Television's president, John King, said, "VPT was proud to provide the first digital broadcasts in HD to Vermont. Now, Adelphia will take this new service and deliver it to its cable viewers throughout the state."

"We are pleased to partner with VPT to provide such high-quality HD programming to our subscribers in Vermont and New Hampshire," said John Hauenstein, director of marketing for Adelphia. "This is just another step in improving our HD product, which includes favorites such as NESN HD and Discovery HD Theater."

VPT HD schedule information is available at VPT's Digital Programming Guide. More information about Adelphia's HD offerings is available at Adelphia New England.

What's the point of VPT announcing this? We can already get PBS-HD from WCFE.

so i applied for the waiver to recieve the ny an la hd networks from directv and struck out on all of them. what a bummer. my question is how can they do that when there are no hd stations available yet. i want to challence it somehow. seems quite ufair as i was looking forward to watching the superbow in hd this year!

You'll be able to challege it when the new digital white area law goes into effect in 2007. Of course, the Burlington stations will finally be on the air by then, so it's just going to be useless!

Really hope ABC will be OTA before the World Cup in June

June 2007, maybe!!!!

Otherwise, forget it!! Never gonna happen. Not before fall 2006 at the earliest.

Anyone see the front-page article in the Freep regarding VPT's HD feed on Adelphia? The article makes absolutely no mention of the fact that VPT went DTV OTA in 2003. Nor do they mention anything about the locals' plans to transmit DTV OTA from Mansfield next year.

Can anyone tell me - out of the following stations channel 3, 5 and 22 which if any broadcast in HD ...?

Thanks,

Sorry; none. Perhaps next fall when the towers are complete on mansfield then OTA from the locals will become available. Obviously CBS and PBS will lead since they already feed their signals "locally" to Adelphia.

Of course they also forgot to mention Mountain lake PBS in upper state NY has been broadcasting Hd for ~1.5 years..thats about 40 miles from Burlington; with a reasonable antenna you can get their HD signal now.

I'm located in Fairfax - I just moved up here from MA in April (wondering if that was a good move) ...

Anyway, I applied for waivers with Directv three times - turned down everytime -

BUT - what I didn't know until now was even if I was fortunate enough to pull a signal with an OTA antenna these bastards aren't even broadcasting in HD anyway, huh, what's up with that!!!!

Why the F$CK do they care about granting me a waiver when they aren't offering the service I'm looking for in the first place - absurd - to say the least.

I was told by a Directv CS rep to call each station individually and plead my case so would anyone know how I can get the phone numbers for channels 3, 5 and 22 or at the very least the alphanumeric designations of each and I will look them up accordingly - I am REALLY pissed... THANKS !

Cbs Wcax 3
Nbc Wptz 5
Abc Wvny 22
Fox Wfff 44
Pbs Wetk 33
Pbs Wcfe 57

I think (and please, someone correct me if I'm wrong) the flaw with the whole waiver process is that the waivers do not have an expiration date. So, the locals are worried that if they grant you a waiver now, and you start watching e.g. WNBC-HD out of NYC, that you won't come back to them once they do start broadcasting in HD.

It would be more fair, IMHO, if the locals could grant a waiver that expires on such-and-such a date (a point in time at which they expect to be broadcasting HD) after which the waiver is revoked and you have to go back to watching them.

Well - I'm not sure anyone knows the answer but I'll ask anyway...

Does anyone have any information direct or otherwise about any suits being brought against the local stations here in Vermont in the recent past or present regarding denial of DNS waivers or HD programing in general???

I am a retired high level Law Enforcement officer and my wife is a retired attorney. We would love to bring a suit against these stations for restricting our ability to receive HD TV programming - We have all the time in the world to do something like this and would actually make a project out of it - and in the meantime would make sure every viable newspaper in the area gets the story (if they would be willing to listen).

So if anyone knows about any past actions I'd love to hear of the outcome if any. If anyone knows about any present actions I would need to know about those as well.

In closing - anyone that may want to be included in this (as a harmed party) can email or PM me and I will get back to you ASAP.

It wasn't until I recently found out that these stations do not offer HD broadcast OTA - that completly drove me over the edge...

I have no idea how this will shake out and whether these bastards have some type of insulation from actions like what I'm proposing (FCC rules whatever) - so any insight from anyone will help to speed or slow the process accordingly...

My overall sense is these denials are directly related to the relationship these stations have with the cable industry specifically Adelphia soon to be ComCast.

Thanks... opinions are welcome

Random thoughts:

- Out of curiosity, what kind of compensation are you looking for?
- By the time such an action would ever make it to trial, or the negotiating table, they're all going to be broadcasting in HD OTA anyway (scheduled to be OTA in less than a year from now).
- The switch to HD was delayed due to permitting issues and threats of legal actions by environmental groups for the Mt. Mansfield towers. Do you really want to re-hash that all over again?

Random thoughts:

- Out of curiosity, what kind of compensation are you looking for?
- By the time such an action would ever make it to trial, or the negotiating table, they're all going to be broadcasting in HD OTA anyway (scheduled to be OTA in less than a year from now).
- The switch to HD was delayed due to permitting issues and threats of legal actions by environmental groups for the Mt. Mansfield towers. Do you really want to re-hash that all over again?

Compensation ='s waivers and hopefully that can be had with STRONG negotiations after a filing...

Dude give it up. Directv is a service which you pay for, they don't have to give you anything. YOU can simply cancel and find another service if your not happy. Or "move" to an address that has DNS like NYC or Washington DC (upper).

BTW anyone have any news on TQS? Its late 2005 now no ?

TQS got an extension until late 2006!!!!

TQS got an extension until late 2006!!!!

ahh damn no softporn in HD :(

I've finally gotten an HD capture card (PCHDtv HD-3000) running in a Linux box I have set up. (This box also runs Mythtv, an opensource Tivo alternative, it's very cool).

Much to my surprise, Adelphia seems to be pushing quite a few digital channels over the line as well as regular cable. I'm not sure if that has to do with the broadband that's coming down as well, but I'll find out fairly soon when I shut that off ($45 a month for BB? come on.) Note: I don't subscribe to the digital package, just basic cable (up to ch. 77)

Anyway, I've mapped out the frequencies & PIDs for most of these channels, including WCAX, NBC (from somewhere, but not sure where). If people are interested, I'll be glad to post them. A straight scan came up with 307 hits, with about 60 of them being valid streams, including some 40-odd music choice channels. In the meantime, I'm trying to get the silly computer to play HDTV at a reasonable framerate, and will have more info as I have time to work with it.

I would be interested in the frequency and PID info that you have. I am presently working on the same setup that you have.

You'll be able to challege it when the new digital white area law goes into effect in 2007. Of course, the Burlington stations will finally be on the air by then, so it's just going to be useless!
I thought digital signal testing would go into effect for Vt this Spring (first 100 dmas).
As for a specific digital white area, I think the FCC just recently stated that "it wasn't necessary" and the existing L/R method was "just fine", so the only thing that will change, is being able to appeal any determination via a signal test.

I thought digital signal testing would go into effect for Vt this Spring (first 100 dmas).They can't test until they have towers up. That's not gonna happen until the end of the 2006 summer construction season, not the beginning.

To all the folks in the burlington areas
I was playing around over the holidays with my HDTV TV and my old antenna in the attic (I live in a condo) and was able to pull in WCFE 57.1 in HDTV. It is not the same programming as the analog 57 but a beautiful picture. It's a start.

They can't test until they have towers up. That's not gonna happen until the end of the 2006 summer construction season, not the beginning.

Of course you can test before the towers go up - you just wouldn't get a very good signal :D

Seriously though, your sat company schedules a test; it obviously doesn't show a grade "B" (or any other) signal; the television station has to pay for the test and you get HD DNS without needing a waiver.

The affiliate would be further $$ ahead granting the waiver because they're guarenteed the sat company has to drop your national feed once the afilliate can provide a decent digital signal to your antenna.

To all the folks in the burlington areas
I was playing around over the holidays with my HDTV TV and my old antenna in the attic (I live in a condo) and was able to pull in WCFE 57.1 in HDTV. It is not the same programming as the analog 57 but a beautiful picture. It's a start.


The digital version of the analog feed of channel 57 is at 57.2 (remap 38)

For programming info on PBS-HD 57.1 or 38-3 use http://www.mountainlake.org/prog/sched.shtm

Just noticed that if I select Audio 2 on CBC HD the sound during commercial breaks is muted :)

Received this from WNNE-DT:

Hi Walt,
Olympics and daytona will be HD not upconverted. We now have the NBC HD IRD
in and running.
Should be 5.1 surround also.
I massaged the PAT in PSIP so was wondering if you saw any changes , hoping
it will take care of some of the STB and dish ird issues.

Roger


The reference to the PSIP is in regards to our conversation about not being able to get any EPG data for their channel on my Dish 942.

How does the EPG guide data work? I assume it's not the same for Dish, D*, etc. So I guess I'm just wondering if whatever they did will also work for D*, BEV or any other receivers that can pick up OTA.

How does the EPG guide data work? I assume it's not the same for Dish, D*, etc. So I guess I'm just wondering if whatever they did will also work for D*, BEV or any other receivers that can pick up OTA.

EPG info is embedded in the PSIP data stream so tuners, among other things, can display program guide information. The FCC mandates rules that govern how stations transmit the PSIP data.

Dish network chooses to make it so that guide information DOES NOT get to the OTA tuner on their 942 receivers.

They will however mirror the afilliate's guide information to those OTA channels ONLY IF you subscribe to Dish's locals package, which IMHO is nothing short of extortion.

I've been busy for a while and haven't been paying attention, but attached is the channels.conf file I have so far.

I'm scanning using a PCHDtv-3000, and viewing using an ATI card. I'm looking into an NVidia, which should solve my viewing problems.

I haven't gone through the MC channels.. If you get a chance, update the file as you can scan.

Too bad I couldn't find ABC on the Hi-Def... Would be nice to have that for the big game.

You couldn't find it because there is no ABC-HD here yet :(

Hey all, hailing from Northfield, VT and am just getting into this HD thing. Anyway, I have Directv and do get the local networks with them--SD of course. But--i was on their site and checked the DNS availability and I qualify for all HD networks except CBS which shows a grade B. So, does that mean I don't need a waiver (other than CBS which i won't get) and will be able to get these locals in HD?? I find it wierd because I can get them from the regular service so based on this am i automatically excluded from the DNS offerrings? And if so, why would it show that I am elligible. Also, from my location there is no way I am ever going to get OTA signals. Thanks
JUC

It should mean that you can get the Directv national feeds except for CBS...if you have the HD box of course and pay the small monthly fee...with no waiver. There are presently no HD local BTV feeds...except on cable.

While you are probably correct in stating you cannot get the OTA CBS SD signal their mapping excludes you from getting HD..even though there is presently no HD OTA off mansfield. If you do put an antenna up you might get HD NBC and PBS off asctutney however.

Hi There Juc,

I lurked here for awhile in the fall while I was getting my own setup together. Thought I'd post since I can concur with vermonter.

I live dead north of you in Middlesex. I'm currently getting the NY feeds from directv for ABC, NBC and FOX. Like you, I supposedly get a grade A or B signal from WCAX, so no luck on CBS. I would like to pick up a digital antena and see if I can get PBS digital from Ascutney - PBS junkie that I am.

A bit off topic - I came back to the board after watching the Olympics in HD from my WNBC-NY feed. Picture was great, when they actually showed content. The commercial saturation of the games was so absurd that I have been considering the HD DVR. However, with the MPEG4 software changover I've just read about, it seems like I should wait on that one. I'll just wait until later to time shift (pun intended)

Walt (not WaltinVT...but a different Walt in VT)

Hello,

I have just moved to Vermont (Monkton) and would like to know what I can expect in OTA HDTV. I moved from Minneapolis where I had 10 OTA channels. From reading the posts above it appears that it will be 2007 before the VT stations will be in OTA HD. Is this still on schedule?

The towers are still set to go up this spring/summer so the transmitters could be operational this fall. They've been apparently working on the broadcast center's interior during the winter.

I'm just praying this damn winter will finish soon so they can begin their work ASAP. I would be so mad if we have to wait yet ANOTHER year for the work to be completed.

Hey, I just got an idea, when the transmitters are scheduled to be lit up, how about we all arrange a get together on Mt. Mansfield with the station engineers to celebrate!

Monkton is pretty. I myself got fed up with the high cost of satellite/cable. My plan is to "Tivo" the OTA feeds off Mansfield using a MyHD computer card on an old computer. That way I pay nothing to the cable or satellite companies and still can timeshift anything.

For now I get one HD OTA channel; its Mountain Lake PBS from northern NY. I too eagerly await the tower competion on Mansfield.

Have been lurking here for awhile and found it quite informative-thanks to all. Am waiting until Dish and/or DTV have more HD content (or there is more OTA HD) to purchase an HD set. In that regard,I recently visited George at the Superstore in Williston (who I regard as the most competent authority locally)to inquire about local programming and some other issues. Specifically,I am in quite a "black hole"here in Hinesburg as far as local reception. He contends that the new Mansfield antennas due to be completed in the fall will have greater strength and coverage due to height and ,therefore,POSSIBLY allow me to receive local OTA HD. Any comments would be appreciated.

Welcome Pig Farmer.

Can you comment on how your reception currently is for analog channels 3, 22, and 33? These are the three currently coming from Mansfield and should predetermine whether you will be able to receive the digitals.

Virtually non existant via my OTA antenna on rooftop. WPTZ in PLB,however,is very strong. I am a current Dish subscriber and I suspect they will be rather slow to offer HD locals despite their new MPEG4 satellite capacity. Once again,George says he would suspect sometime in early 2007 for Dish and/or DTV local HD broadcasts as we are their #60 market.

Well if you can't get 22, you may be SOL.

Probably the best option for you would be to "move" to NY.

Welcome Pig Farmer.

Can you comment on how your reception currently is for analog channels 3, 22, and 33? These are the three currently coming from Mansfield and should predetermine whether you will be able to receive the digitals.

There is supposed to be digital signal testing available by the end of next month (APril 30th) for the top 100 DMAs, so even though qualification for being "served" or "unserved" for digital will still be based on analog reception, using the same prediction model (Longley-Rice method), at least there should be an "appeal" process in place to dispute erroneous predictions.

As to whether DBS companies will embrace digital signal testing - who knows.

Virtually non existant via my OTA antenna on rooftop. WPTZ in PLB,however,is very strong. I am a current Dish subscriber and I suspect they will be rather slow to offer HD locals despite their new MPEG4 satellite capacity. Once again,George says he would suspect sometime in early 2007 for Dish and/or DTV local HD broadcasts as we are their #60 market.

The order that Dish is launching HD LiLs is NOT by DMA size. In fact Burlington IS in the list of 50 that Dish announced might be available sometime this year. I think Dish currently has HD LiLs in 12 cities and plans on doing 5 or 6 more every month.

A senior official at Dish told me that which dmas get HD LiLs first will depend a lot on negoiations between Dish and the respective afilliates plus Echostar 10.

waltinvt- All very interesting-thanks for the info. If local HD via Dish will depend to ANY extent upon negotiations between affiliates and Echostar,I suspect it'll be a long time before we see it. Although I must say that yesterday's press release from Echostar concerning new HD Lils at least gives the appearance that they are using DMA size as their criteria for determining launch dates.

waltinvt- All very interesting-thanks for the info. If local HD via Dish will depend to ANY extent upon negotiations between affiliates and Echostar,I suspect it'll be a long time before we see it. Although I must say that yesterday's press release from Echostar concerning new HD Lils at least gives the appearance that they are using DMA size as their criteria for determining launch dates.

I would think it's in the best interest of the Vermont afilliates to be included in Dish's HD LiLs and the sooner the better.

Since they are not and will not be transmitting digital OTA for quite a while and even when they do, their signal will probably not be available to many throughout the dma, having that signal available by satellite gives them FAR more exposure than they might otherwise get. Plus they potentially gain back viewers that were previously allowed to get distant signals.

As for DMA size being the criteria, I don't think that's as much a factor as one would think. It's more how much $$ Dish will "net" with a particular DMA and I think that's why Dish's list of 50 doesn't follow DMA size.

Keep in mind, that Dish doesn't directly pick up any additional $$ for launching HD locals. If you're an HD sub, have the regular locals package and a MPEG4 capable receiver, they will add HD LiLs to the package with no price increase. Where they do pick up the money is getting new subscribers to the locals and HD packages plus upgrading to the new MPEG4 receivers.

Each DMA has a certain amount of cost associated with both aquiring the afilliates and making satellite space available for the respective stations. That's weighed against the potential revenue that might be gained in that DMA to determine if it's worth it.

I'm guessing that if Vt afilliates can provide Dish with the uplinks and they're fairly reasonable to get contracts with, they'll show up on Dish sooner rather than later.

certainly hope you are correct. BTW-there is a critique of the new DISH MPEG4 receiver/"TIVO" unit on CNET as of today.

Hi all,
Been lurking for a while and decided to join, I just got an HDTV so I guess I make up the 9th vermonter that has it. :)

My TV found 3, OTA broadcasts in Burlington, I'm currently debating if I should go with Adelphia, DirectTV or Dish for the most/best HD channels. Any suggestions ?

Welcome.

What 3 OTA stations are you picking up in Burlington? WCFE, CBFT, and CBMT, or are there more that I don't know about?

I have been lurking...I joined....yadda yadda yadda :) Seems to be happening alot lately eh?

Are people getting CBC OTA? Aren't they btoadcasting off their building? I assume it is on channel 19.1, am I wrong about this? I hope so, I could use some curling in HD.

CBC is in fact broadcasting from their building. They are broadcasting on channel 20 (which remaps as 6.1).

Channel 19 is the CBC's francophone counterpart SRC (which remaps as 2.1).

Both are low-powered and at a low elevation, so I don't know how far it can reach.

Was wondering if anyone here has a television with a QAM tuner and Adelphia cable. If so, what stations are you able to pick up with a direct connection (no cable box)?

I was thinking about making the plunge to HD (although it is extremely limited here in VT) and being able to get some "extras" would certainly sway my momentum.

Thanks

Many of the standard cable channels are shown in unencrypted QAM. The HD stations that I could tune that were in the clear were PBS (21.2), CBS (21.4), and Boston NBC (71.1). The channel mappings are what were given to me by my tuner, so those may differ for you.

Thanks for the reply. I have read on other messages about people being able to get INHD and other premium HD channels (and all digital channels) through the basic cable line and was hopeful for Adelphia. Looks like no?

...that we'll have to wait a whole additional year if they don't finish the attenas this summer. I mean how many projects of this magnitude finish on time. Let's just hope they finish them...

Anyway I noticed that some of you are getting 'waivers' from DirecTV/Dish since that allow you to get National network feeds.

Does anyone know if the Adelphia offers this?

One more thing...I like foxfan's idea of a celebration. Better yet? I think we should go up there the first day of work this spring and offer our help on the project. I'm serious. I can't wait another year of no World Series and everything else on NBC, ABC, and Fox.

Hi all,
Been lurking for a while and decided to join, I just got an HDTV so I guess I make up the 9th vermonter that has it. :)

My TV found 3, OTA broadcasts in Burlington, I'm currently debating if I should go with Adelphia, DirectTV or Dish for the most/best HD channels. Any suggestions ?

Which 3 OTA were they?

I don't think it will take another year (fingers crossed). They were very conservative at scheduling the construction over two years instead of one, so I'm pretty confident that it will get done this year.

As for the celebration on the Mt. Mansfield summit, there isn't really a first day of work scheduled for this spring, since it has been an ongoing. I hear they have even worked through the winter at setting up all the interior stuff in the new mountaintop building. That's why I think it would be best to call during the summer, asking them when they expect to be finished and to be contacted at that time so we can all make it to Mt. Mansfield when they turn on the power! It would be good to have Montreal newspapers there as well so that I can come with signs saying "Take that, CRTC! Screw you, CTV! F-you, Canwest Global (The Gazette won't like that last one)"

I have line-of-sight to the summit of Mt. Mansfield from a 2nd-story bedroom window. I can clearly see the existing towers with binoculars. I'd like to rig up a web-cam to watch for when the towers are, um, erected. But it would need a telephoto lens. Any ideas on how to do this on the cheap? (the telephoto part, that is, I can manage it from the USB port in)

Hmm... Maybe I just answered my own question. I've got an old 8mm Sony HandyCam kicking around with 30x zoom (15x optical, 2x digital). I've give that a try and see how it does.

Stay tuned...

that would be phenomenal if you got that up and running...I bet if you took some stills along the way that showed the progress the Free Press would buy them from you...seriously...especially becuase it would show how the attenas will look from a distance compared to the current antennas...

I know I for one would check this out from time to time...

I've been out here a lot and I love reading your updates and banter. I've learned a bit of technical jargon from you guys along the way too. I just started a Newsgroup for VT HD discussions and news updates and I was hoping to get some of you to check it out and post some big news if and when you hear it. I like hearing about anything with HD and A/V in general so post away if you have something cool to share.

The group is called HighDefDetails (set up through Yahoo)

Shouldn't we also be getting Universal HD and TNT HD through Adelphia...gosh I can't stand them...

I just looked at the Dish Network and they have over 25 HD channels for less then Adelphia's pittance...

I agree. I moved here from Ohio (Time Warner country) last fall and was warned about Adelphia from my brother who works in the cable business. I really didn't appreciate all of the HD offerings back in Akron. Even if you didn't have a HD set, there were still quite a few channels carried in duplicate in digital (all of the networks for instance).

Oh, and I paid about $25 less per month for significantly more channels and faster internet service than I have from Adelphia.


Here, OTA I'm stuck with only TWO HD!!!!

You're lucky you get two; I only get one in Jericho (Mountian Lake PBS).....Vttom; where are you? I can see the mountain and the towers too.....here's to hoping!

While some of you in the North Western part of the state can look forward to all 3 nets in digital OTA this Fall, most of us (basically anyone on the East side of a hill) will not see those channels.

What's needed is a similar coalition at this end of the state. If Fox, ABC & CBS would join the NBC / PBS facilities on Mt Ascutney, then between the two mountains, most of the state might finally get digital OTA.

As some of you probably know, Dish has included the Burlington DMA in it's list of 50 possible DMAs that they might launch HD LiLs in this year. They're supposedly "working" out some technical difficulties that will allow them to launch the remaining 3 HD DNS too. As to when, who knows but they tell me it is being worked on.

You're lucky you get two; I only get one in Jericho (Mountian Lake PBS).....Vttom; where are you? I can see the mountain and the towers too.....here's to hoping!Essex

I hope i'm mistaking, but WFFF has filed a new construction permit and reduced they're ERP to 47. A look at they're new coutour Map show that Montreal is now excluded.


Can anyone prove me wrong, please.....
I want to catch this channel!!!

thanks

Yipikyer, I have also noticed this change of ERP for WFFF's Construction Permit.

I am still optomistic, however that we will be able to receive this in Montreal, given that WCFE's digital signal was easily receivable on the south shore with only 7.5kw. Keep in mind that the service contour map of WFFF only shows the contour at 41db, even though it is possible to get a lock with much less than that.

Thanks Foxfan, Hope you're right!!!! I'm in Greenfield Park, just next to Charles-Lemoyne Hospital.

BTW, WCFE is at 100 kW not 7.5

WCFE is now at 100kw, but when they started they were only at 7.5, and were receivable anyway.

I am more concerned about WVNY-DT13 at 4.5kw (next to CFCF-TV 12 at 325kw)!

am i missing something on WVNY? Since when they came sown from 10 to 4.5 kW?

I just copied that from the FCC site:

WVNY VT BURLINGTON USA (Digital)

Licensee: LAMBERT BROADCASTING OF BURLINGTON, LLC
Service Designation: DT Digital television station
Channel: 13 210 - 216 MHz Modification of Construction Permit
File No.: BMPCDT-20060221ACX Facility ID number: 11259
CDBS Application ID No.: 1115630

44° 31' 33.00" N Latitude Site in Canadian Border Zone
72° 48' 57.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization: Horizontal (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 10. kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 831. meters HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 1253. meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 30. meters AGL

TV Zone: 2

Directional Antenna ID No.: 71724 Pattern Rotation: 0.00

Oh, I see it's back up to 10. It was 4.5 the last time I had checked.

On another issue, can anyone in VT see if the snow has melted on Mansfield?

Oh, I see it's back up to 10. It was 4.5 the last time I had checked.

On another issue, can anyone in VT see if the snow has melted on Mansfield?

No it hasn't melted.

Here's one for you all with Adelphia:

I get pixelation/blocky scenes on all the HD channels when there is any kind of motion/action at all, especially noticeable in dark scenes, but generally annoying overall. Even the station logo (INHD, HDNet for example) gets REALLY pixelated. Any tips on how to fix this?

I've tried all combinations of settings with no improvement. My current settings are Auto DVI on the 3250HD box.

Rusted Root on HDNet looks terrible, with a lot of "static" like on a poorly received analog station.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Unfortunately Mansfield is still stark white - looks nice actually. Not good news for a possible early start on the new towers though...

Just a quick answer to your pixelation from Adelphia...
I get this too, and so does my dad. These are compression articfacts. Adelphia compresses the hell out of their feed to save bandwidth and maximize the number of channels they can sell to us. Quanity over quality - unfortunately Adelphia HD is NOT true HD because of this.

I've sent a number of emails asking adelphia about this but have never had a response. You'll want to get an over the air tuner when they turn on the new attenas and only then will you get a pure HD picture...

Thanks Scott. I'm just down the road from you in St. George. Unfortunately, I'm on the backside of Mt. Pritchard. If my poor radio reception from home (no 103.3 or 104.7) is any indication, I may have have a hard time pulling in OTA.

I have Adelphia and am not seeing pixellation as badly as you guys are. One thing that I did was add a bidirectional amp into the line, then adjusted the gain by checking the diagnostic screen on my SA8300HD.

Mttpalmer; whats the other HD channel besides WCFE Mountain lake PBS you get OTA? Thanks.

This is a copy of the email i received from WETK this morning:



Most of the work done over the winter was interior at the WCAX building.
Tower work and other outdoor construction resumes in June after the
nesting period of the Bicknell's thrushes that live on Mt. Mansfield, and
we're still looking at late fall for a launch.

What??? We have to wait longer because of (bleep)ing BIRDS??? That's Vermont (Quebec is the same) for you!

This sucks. They said they were ahead of schedule last year, but they're still not pushing for an earlier on-air testing date! The broadcast season starts in SEPTEMBER, NOT DECEMBER. Are they going to be up by November sweeps at least?

Okay now I'm officially worried...I envisioned the construction team up there ready and waiting to install the antennas the first second possible when the snow is melted and they could access the site.

And now this Bicknell Thrush news...what a red-tape circus this has been. I bet a year from now you'll find families of Bicknell Thrushes happily nesting in and around the antenna site. Thanks over-zealous environmentalists!

This is just more crap, on top the Circ. Highway, the Lowes Building delays to name just a few. Now a &*#@ing bird.

We need to revolution in Vermont, people need to speak.

STOP DONATING and SUPPORTING ALL the Envirenmental Groups, I did.
They won't get a dime from me until they change, when they come to my door (or call for their causes,) I send them packing, they wish they never came.

I've lived in Vt almost 40 years and the way it's changed in those years is unbelievable. People either move up here or buy vacation homes because they like it up here but the first thing they want to do is change something!

If the minority "activists" up here get their way, only the queers & deers will be left.

Mttpalmer; whats the other HD channel besides WCFE Mountain lake PBS you get OTA? Thanks.

I can't actually get any! I am literally on the side of Mt. Pritchard facing Shelburne (away from Mansfield) and have trouble pulling certain radio stations also. I was under the impression that (most) people in Burlington area could get CBS OTA also.

I can't actually get any! I am literally on the side of Mt. Pritchard facing Shelburne (away from Mansfield) and have trouble pulling certain radio stations also. I was under the impression that (most) people in Burlington area could get CBS OTA also.

Mttpalmer, You must have a straight shot to NY state in that case. Shouldn't you get WCFE HD? (until they move to Mt Mansfield). I live in Shelburne and I get a beautiful HD picture from WCFE HD with an attic antenna.
I feel for you, I lived in St-George and it was bad.

Just FYI, WCFE will NOT move to Mansfield. There will be a PBS station on Mansfield (WETK) but it won't be exactly the same. They have almost the same programming but I have noticed VPT tends to use 3 or 4 sub-channels, so the PBS-HD feed they carry mustn't be that great...

What channels will be broadcasted from Mt Mansfield?
Anyone have the scoop when we will get ABC, NBC, FOX in HD?
Probally right after they build Target and Lowes, right ;)
Also did they ever resolve the blinking light on top of the tower question?

Yes, the blinking light problem was solved by making three towers that are only about 150 feet tall. Blinking lights are only required on structures above 200 feet.

From Mansfield:
WVNY-DT (ABC) 13
WPTZ-DT (NBC) 14
WETK-DT (PBS) 32
WFFF-DT (FOX) 43
WCAX-DT (CBS) 53, later 22

Foxfan; Any change in Montreal/Canadian HD OTA broadcasts? Thanks.

I have updated(not so much) my first post. If any of you know air dates that i don't, tell me , i'll update it ASAP.


Montreal

*CBFT-DT 19 (SRC) on the air
*CBMT-DT 20 (CBC) on the air
* CFCF-DT 21 (CTV) Did not applied yet for license, No news
* CIVM-DT 27 (TQC) Got license, No news
*CFJP-DT 42 (TQS) Got license, Target date: Late 2006
* CKMI-DT 51 (Global) Did not applied yet for license, No news
*CFTM-DT 59 (TVA) Got license, no more news
* CJTN-DT 69 (CH)Did not applied yet for license, No news

Not much. TVA (CFTM-DT) has recently been granted approval to have a temporary digital transmitter installed on their building broadcasting low-power on channel 59, which I seriously doubt will reach Vermont. They have indicated that they intend to switch back to full power channel 10 after the transition.

TQS (CFJP-DT 42), which Vermonters probably know as THE broadcaster for soft porn at night (take that, FCC lol) has had its permit for almost two years but has just been sitting on it.

Province-run Tele-Quebec (CIVM-DT) has applied and obtained its permit as well, but I'm wondering what's going to happen with that signal. They will be broadcasting digitally on channel 27, even though there is already an analog (low-power) station on this channel in Plattsburgh. It'll be fun to see how reception will work out for both these stations.

As for the English Canadian channels, other than CBC which is already on the air, there is not much to talk about. They have given no indication of their intentions to broadcast digitally in Montreal, and most of their programming (outside of news) consists of just repeating stuff we'll already be getting from Mt. Mansfield anyway, so no one cares about them.

Mttpalmer, You must have a straight shot to NY state in that case. Shouldn't you get WCFE HD? (until they move to Mt Mansfield). I live in Shelburne and I get a beautiful HD picture from WCFE HD with an attic antenna.
I feel for you, I lived in St-George and it was bad.

With rabbit ears, I ran a scan and the tuner found NO digital stations, only analog. If you have any tips I'm all ears.

Anyone know when CBC will move to Mount Royal ?

Mttpalmer, rabbit-ears are primarily designed for VHF-only. For UHF, you would need to attach that little "loop" thingy.

For Rednight, there probably won't be any digital stations on Mt. Royal for anytime soon. The tower is full! They'll have to either remove the old analog transmitters (for which there is no plan to do so yet in Canada) or build a new tower (which wouldn't go over well with the environmentalists here either).

Yes, the blinking light problem was solved by making three towers that are only about 150 feet tall. Blinking lights are only required on structures above 200 feet.

From Mansfield:
WVNY-DT (ABC) 13
WPTZ-DT (NBC) 14
WETK-DT (PBS) 32
WFFF-DT (FOX) 43
WCAX-DT (CBS) 53, later 22

Bumping the thread but also curious about the 50 foot reduction in tower height and how much that could potentially reduce signal penetration across Vt.

Is it likely that anyone with a decent antenna & amp that COULD NOT receive the analog signals WOULD have much chance of receiving the digital signals?

I always wondered why they could not have gone 199 fts, if 200 fts required lights.

Also any reason why WVNY is the only VHF station, this would require us folks to get VHF/UHF antenna rather than UHF only.

PS: It is June, and I was wondering if the bird has finished its bussiness so the construction could start? Any folks close to the site noticed any activities picking up?

[QUOTE]Also any reason why WVNY is the only VHF station, this would require us folks to get VHF/UHF antenna rather than UHF only.[QUOTE]

There are several digital channels in the high end of VHF (10-13) in New England and across the country. There should be little trouble picking up digital 13 w/a UHF only antenna.

PS: It is June, and I was wondering if the bird has finished its bussiness so the construction could start? Any folks close to the site noticed any activities picking up?

I just asked via email WETK yesterday. Waiting for a reply.......
Post his answer ASAP

Here is the WETK answer:

Now that it's June, work has resumed on Mt. Mansfield, mostly at the WCAX
site. Towers go up later in the summer.

I'm pretty sure I recall from the status meeting I attended some two years ago that the tower design was always ~150 feet. That was to negate the 200 foot light issue (Govenor Dean had set a rule of no lights on Mansfield). So I think these heights are part of the original design.

As long as they're functioning before the next NFL season that would be nice.

Are any of you guys close on the border between US/Canada? Just curious as to what I could get for OTA channels if I were to buy an antenna.

Are any of you guys close on the border between US/Canada? Just curious as to what I could get for OTA channels if I were to buy an antenna.

Read the first post
Currently only PBS is available if you live close to the boarder, CBC / SRC are boardcasting off a building in MTL so there's almost no chance of getting them outside a 20km radius.

ABC, CBS, Fox/WB, NBC are coming soon end of summer/fall.

Thanks for the info TheRedknight!! I'll have to keep checking back for updates.

Are any of you guys close on the border between US/Canada? Just curious as to what I could get for OTA channels if I were to buy an antenna.


I live in Chazy NY about 10 miles south of Canada. I have Radioshacks big VU-190 antenna and Channel Master 25 db gain amp. I recieve all the analog Canadian channels crystal clear but no hint of a digital signal at all ! WCFE HD is wonderfully
clear. We'll just have to wait for the Mt. Mansfield digital.

Unibunny I'm real close to you - I work in Rouses Point and live just across the border 10 minutes, so I should be able to receive the channels you get. Thanks for the info!!

I have noticed that some stations run low power tests for months to get the bugs out. Since the Mansfield towers are new this may be the case for our area which would really tick some people off. I was wondering if anybody has any info on this?
TIA Unibunny

I have noticed that some stations run low power tests for months to get the bugs out. Since the Mansfield towers are new this may be the case for our area which would really tick some people off. I was wondering if anybody has any info on this?
TIA Unibunny

Don't know if this is any indication but when WNNE-DT went up last year on Mt Ascutney, they didn't have to test all that long. As I remember, they did have a few encoder issues but that were the fault of the WPTZ station. Anyway, they were transmitting a great looking signal pretty quick once they had the equipment set up.

Since WPTZ has been at it a while now, they should be able to flip the switch before any of the others? :)

Interesting constuction perspective w/photos in the link below:

http://www.fybush.com/featuredsite.html

If one can not currently receive a very good signal from any of the analog stations off of Mt Mansfield now, would have any chance of getting the digital signals when they go live this Fall?

I'm near the Connecticut River (Bradford) at about 800 feet but don't have a clear view to the West or North. I have is a decent UHF antenna, rotor and amp but no longer any VHF.

When I did have the VHF, I do remember getting a kind of snowy picture from WCAX but it was worse than cable.

If one can not currently receive a very good signal from any of the analog stations off of Mt Mansfield now, would have any chance of getting the digital signals when they go live this Fall?

I'm near the Connecticut River (Bradford) at about 800 feet but don't have a clear view to the West or North. I have is a decent UHF antenna, rotor and amp but no longer any VHF.

When I did have the VHF, I do remember getting a kind of snowy picture from WCAX but it was worse than cable.


Walt, I will not pretend to understand radiated power and tower heights, but the attached clearly shows the DT signal for Ch. 3 to be significantly stronger than the analog. However if you look at the contour map of each there is no appreciable difference. Maybe someone else can shed some light.

I also looked at Ch. 31 and note the reverse, a stronger analog signal than digital and that is definitely true for me as I could receive a good picture on analog but cannot watch digital as signal strength is too weak so there are many dropouts.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=46728

Walt, I will not pretend to understand radiated power and tower heights, but the attached clearly shows the DT signal for Ch. 3 to be significantly stronger than the analog. However if you look at the contour map of each there is no appreciable difference. Maybe someone else can shed some light.

I also looked at Ch. 31 and note the reverse, a stronger analog signal than digital and that is definitely true for me as I could receive a good picture on analog but cannot watch digital as signal strength is too weak so there are many dropouts.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=46728I don't begin to understand the technicalities involved either.

I'm just real tired of it being so hard to get HD up here and hope we're finally getting closer. We're been years behind the rest of the country and it's gone on long enough.

It wouldn't be so bad if the people involved would give straight answers. The only person that has always told me like it was, good or bad, was the engineer at WNNE durning their transition to digital last year. Roger always answered my emails and returned my phone calls. He's a great asset to Hearst Argyle and I imagine he'll move up the ladder quickly. I can't say as much for his boss at WPTZ.

Now I have the opposite as you for WNNE reception. I never received a very clear signal from their analog (31) station but have always gotton a great, rock solid signal from their digital (25). I also get a good signal from the VTPBS digital (24) on Mt Ascutney.

I wish someone could get a straight answer regarding whether Dish Network will have these Burlington digital signals this year. They were listed in the original group of 50 DMAs that Dish planned to launch sometime this year but I haven't been able to find out anything since. In order for Dish to add the digital feeds to the locals package, these affiliates would have to give Dish retransmission consent, which means they have to know something about this, yet none of them seem to be talking.

Walt; I get Northern NY Mountain lake PBS pretty good via digital but the analog feed is snowy. However not all digital receivers are the same; my very old Sammy STB works OK; the MYHD 100 was worse, the MYHD120 I just picked up better (similar to the Sammy) and a Directv HD Sony HD300 receiver I had was the best.....YMMV.

Walt; I get Northern NY Mountain lake PBS pretty good via digital but the analog feed is snowy. However not all digital receivers are the same; my very old Sammy STB works OK; the MYHD 100 was worse, the MYHD120 I just picked up better (similar to the Sammy) and a Directv HD Sony HD300 receiver I had was the best.....YMMV.

I agree. Although I've not tried any digital receivers other than Dish Networks, I have used their 811, 942 and 622 and found all of them different.

Channels 24 & 25 from Mt Ascutney I receive well on all 3 units with signals avg in 80s to 90s but for fringe stations like WMUR-DT (59) in Manchester,NH, I actually locked on it a couple of times with the 811 when the signal went over 65% but most of the time it would read 49 to 55% and wouldn't lock. Similar with a couple Boston stations. However none of those stations will even wiggle the meter on either the 942 or 622. It's like they don't exist.

Good News and Bad News
Good - They have gotten the antenna and transmitter installed at the Burke Mtn VPT site. It is broadcasting on 20-1 only right now while it is still in testing. I get a good digital signal while the analog is snowy. Walt you may get this station in Bradford.

Bad - I talked to the engineer a couple weeks ago and the last I heard there were problems with the tower anchor bolts on Mount Mansfield. They didn't stretch as much as they were supposed too when they torqued on them. They were going to try to break them free of any possible source of binding in the rocks below by over stressing them. I may see him in the next couple of days I'll post what I find out.

Steve

Hey, Steve.

Were the problems with anchor bolts on Mansfield related only to VPT's tower? They better be! Delays with WETK don't bother me that much because I already have WCFE coming in strong, but God forbid anything going wrong with the other two towers for the main networks. I NEED THEM FOR SEPTEMBER!

I might be going down to VT in middle-late August to check on their progress (I'm hoping to see towers). On a related note, is anyone else interested in the idea I floated earlier (about having a mountain-top party when the work will be completed)?

Good News and Bad News
Good - They have gotten the antenna and transmitter installed at the Burke Mtn VPT site. It is broadcasting on 20-1 only right now while it is still in testing. I get a good digital signal while the analog is snowy. Walt you may get this station in Bradford.

Bad - I talked to the engineer a couple weeks ago and the last I heard there were problems with the tower anchor bolts on Mount Mansfield. They didn't stretch as much as they were supposed too when they torqued on them. They were going to try to break them free of any possible source of binding in the rocks below by over stressing them. I may see him in the next couple of days I'll post what I find out.

Steve


Where these anchors bolts cast into concrete footings (usually hooked on the bottom or fastened to steel plates at the embedded end) or where they adhesive type (straight ends that fit into drilled holes filled with epoxy adhesive)?

The adhesive type could actually be drilled into the mountain ledge?

Either way, I don't understand what you mean by "didn't stretch" unless it's that the tensile strength of the bolt didn't meet specs and thus couldn't stand the applied torque.

Somethimes the term "stretch" is used as slang when discribing the inability to fix a situation where the anchors were set too deep and didn't allow enough protrusion to accomodate the tower base plate plus the appropiate washers and nuts: "we couldn't stretch them enough"....

In any event, there's a tremendious amount of tensil stress on tower anchors, so it's critical they meet specs for material grade AND be installed correctly.

The key here is what type of anchor configuration they used and what the EOR (engineer of record) will and won't allow for repair possibilities. This could conceivably cause a long delay or could be a one day fix - depending on the circumstances.

For instance if the EOR allowed extensions to be welded to the anchors, that might not be too bad. If on the other hand the anchors have to be replaced and they were cast into concrete footings, we could be talking a major delay.

Has any of this hit the media yet?

Walt and Foxfan,
I don't know the answers to either of your questions but will try to find out. I need them for football season too. Hope all is well will post back anything new.
Steve

P.S.
The way he explained it to me, and he said it was complicated, was that when they tested the tower anchor bolts they didn't "stretch" the required two inches or whatever. They were only about a fourth of what they should have been. Now this guy was a VPT engineer so it may have only applied to the tower that he cared about.
And yes a party to celebrate OTA HDTV in Vermont when they get them up would be fun. Do you know if there is a road to drive up there? Might be a fun motorcycle ride.
Steve

As stated on the FCC web site:

Are they ever gonna broadcast????????

- REASONS FOR REQUIRING AN EXTENSION OF TIME TO CONSTRUCT

AS NOTED IN WVNY-DT'S PENDING FORM 337 APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO CONSTRUCT, BEPCDT-20050802ADU, WHICH IS INCORPORATED BY REFERENCE, DUE TO THE VERY SHORT CONSTRUCTION SEASON AT THE MT. MANSFIELD SITE (WITHOUT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION ANY UNFORESEEN FURTHER DELAYS) AND STRICT ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS ATTACHED TO THE LOCAL PERMITS, LAMBERT BROADCASTING OF BURLINGTON, LLC ('LAMBERT') ANTICIPATES THAT IT CANNOT COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION OF WVNY-DT BEFORE MID-NOVEMBER 2006. LAMBERT IS SUBMITTING THIS APPLICATION TO REFERENCE ITS MODIFIED CONSTRUCTION PERMIT BMPCDT-20060221ACX, WHICH WAS ISSUED MARCH 13, 2006 FOR A SIX-MONTH TERM ENDING SEPTEMBER 13, 2006.

ATTACHED HERETO FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF THE COMMISSION IS A COPY OF THE LETTER DATED JUNE 23, 2005, WHICH WAS FILED TO SEEK WAIVER OF THE JULY 1, 2005 REPLICATION AND MAXIMIZATION DEADLINE. THAT LETTER FULLY EXPLAINS THE PROTRACTED REGULATORY DELAYS THAT LAMBERT AND OTHER BURLINGTON STATION LICENSEES EXPERIENCED IN GETTING AUTHORIZATION TO CONSTRUCT DTV FACILITIES AT MT. MANSFIELD, AND LAYS OUT THE SCHEDULE FOR COMPLETING CONSTRUCTION, WHICH IS PROCEEDING AS ANTICIPATED. FOR EXAMPLE, LAMBERT AND THE OTHER BROADCASTERS CONSTRUCTING THE SITE HAVE LAID BUILDING AND TOWER FOUNDATIONS, CONSTRUCTED THE BUILDINGS, AND ORDERED ALL NECESSARY EQUIPMENT. IT IS ANTICIPATED THAT WVNY'S ANTENNA WILL ARRIVE NEXT WEEK, AND THAT THE TRANSMITTER WILL ARRIVE IN EARLY SEPTEMBER.

THE STRICT LAND USE REQUIREMENTS ON MT. MANSFIELD AND UNAVOIDABLY SHORT CONSTRUCTION PERIOD ARE OUTSIDE OF LAMBERTS CONTROL. ACCORDINGLY, LAMBERT REQUESTS EXTENSION OF ITS CURRENT SEPTEMBER 13, 2006, CONSTRUCTION DEADLINE IN ORDER TO CONTINUE AND COMPLETE ITS DTV BUILD-OUT EFFORTS.

Ah common this sucks !!!

I agree TheRedknight - football season is coming up fast too........and NBC, ABC, and CBS just denied my waivers to received the feeds from the New York / L.A. feeds. This really sucks!!

Ah common this sucks !!!


This is disgusting totally a friggen joke. 2007 before northern vermont gets any real DTV. oh and btw guys I talked to the PBS Engineer and the 20-1 is live but its just a simulcast of thier analog feed. They are wating for mansfield to go live cause once that does they will get their HD and other simulcast channels via microwave from mansfield to populate the burke mtn tower. Also I dont think that walt will get st j its very low power right now only 23KW or so. Unless you have a clean line of site Idont think your goign to get anything off it.

just wondering does anyone have the new 5 lnb dish from directv? if so is there any more hd channels available with it? getting frustrated with the whole hd situation in vt.

just wondering does anyone have the new 5 lnb dish from directv? if so is there any more hd channels available with it? getting frustrated with the whole hd situation in vt.

Directv is making promises for local into local HD nothing else

I talked to the VPT engineer again yesterday and he told me that they were supposed to deliver the steel for the commercial towers yesterday. They would be doing some assembly and then the helicopter would start installing them on the 8th of Aug. (22nd for the VPT tower using a crane.) The issue with the foundations was indeed only for the VPT tower and it required them to jackhammer into the base to repair a coupling.

P.S. jmcgee_jr you're right, I forgot to mention that it was just a rebroadcast of the analog feed for testing.

This is disgusting totally a friggen joke. 2007 before northern vermont gets any real DTV. oh and btw guys I talked to the PBS Engineer and the 20-1 is live but its just a simulcast of thier analog feed. They are wating for mansfield to go live cause once that does they will get their HD and other simulcast channels via microwave from mansfield to populate the burke mtn tower. Also I dont think that walt will get st j its very low power right now only 23KW or so. Unless you have a clean line of site Idont think your goign to get anything off it.

Are you upset Jim? ;)

Are you upset Jim? ;)
LOL yeah welll you know my situation. I dropped 140 bucks on that samsung 451 and then I dropped another 50 for the CM 4228 and then poles were about 7 bucks each I got 2 of them then spent another 60 on the Radio Shack Rotor. And Coax. And I also got a CM 7777 Pre amp. Put it all up on my roof. Victorian style my guestamate is im about 50+ feet up in the air. Im up on the hill in groton about 850ft about sea level and with that setup I can only get about 2 bars from the littleton PBS I know they are only broadcasting low power right now and I can only get 1 bar for ST J PBS. I moved here from phoenix where I got every channel OTA without a preamp nicely GOD I miss those days :). I just would be happy to get one channel in HD like PBS I really enjoyed thier programming in AZ. That and maybe some G-Men this fall in HD. Oh well lifes not always fair is it :)


I just for giggles ran my TOPO 5 Software and drew line of site to ST J and Littleton and Mansfield. From me to littleton there is only about 1 little mtn that btw us nothing huge I think its like 1600ft up and littleton is on the 1200ft antenna and im at 800 so there is a chance there I wont get it. PBS out of ST J looks a bit better. Nothing to much higher then me and they are broadcasting from about 2300ft up some hills btw us around 1500-1700ft and nothing really close. Now Manny is where it gets hairy for me. Going over the Groton heights mtns in the national forest is about 1600 feet up Im at 850 remember. Then just before mansfield is hogback mountain south of stowe its 3000ft up to the top or so and then a bit farther away is mansfield showing at 3500ft to the top and thats waht the FCC is showing that they are 1260 meters above sea level so thats about 4100 feet up so I dont know who or what is right there. So basically looks like didigtal from mansfield for me is going to be a no go ST J is a probobly and Littleton is a maybe. Time for me to put the house up for sale. Since charter wont get any HD anytime soon. And I wont settle for the HD lite that dish offers.

I got news from WCAX this week that they should be assembling the towers about now and raising them by chopper on the 8th of August. Transmitters in September and October...

Unfortunately, we probably won't be able to go when the work will be completed since the toll road up the mountain closes the 15th of October.

I am not holding my breath they will be broadcasting this anytime. Seems like someone farts wrong up there and they get put back on the schedual. Were already one year behind.

<snip>.... So basically looks like didigtal from mansfield for me is going to be a no go ST J is a probobly and Littleton is a maybe. Time for me to put the house up for sale. Since charter wont get any HD anytime soon. And I wont settle for the HD lite that dish offers.

You may actually be the first person to sell their house because of no HD signal. :D

I got news from WCAX this week that they should be assembling the towers about now and raising them by chopper on the 8th of August. Transmitters in September and October...

Unfortunately, we probably won't be able to go when the work will be completed since the toll road up the mountain closes the 15th of October.

I assume you're referring to the "party" and not a "no go" on completion this Fall (even if the road closes)?

Don't want poor McGee to sell his house on a missunderstanding :D

I got news from WCAX this week that they should be assembling the towers about now and raising them by chopper on the 8th of August. Transmitters in September and October...

Unfortunately, we probably won't be able to go when the work will be completed since the toll road up the mountain closes the 15th of October.


Too bad, i was planning this trip with the family......

When you talked to the WCAX engineer, did he told you that all the transmitters need to be online at the same time? Are we able to get some channels before october?

I assume you're referring to the "party" and not a "no go" on completion this Fall (even if the road closes)?

Don't want poor McGee to sell his house on a missunderstanding :D
LOL yeah the wife wasnt too happy when I came home today told her we need to sell the house cause we wont be getting any HD soon she said if we sell this houe thats not the only thing I wont be getting anytime soon. So man does that Analog cable from charter look great :eek:

Sort of OT - I hiked Lyon Mountain today (PBS HD tower{can be seen from the fire tower}) what a beautiful view from the peak of Chazy Lake to the north and other mountains to the south. Apparently the Montreal sky line can be seen on a clear day, unfortunately it was cloudly. Mount Mansfield is next. :)

The WCAX contact said that stations are free to sign on whenever they're ready (although they probably have to turn down the power when the others are up there). I don't think we'll see something before October.

I'll probably be going to Mt. Mansfield at the end of August to check out the new towers. Apparently you can also see the Montreal skyline from there, but it has to be on a clear and dry day...

On a related note, is anyone close enough to get some pictures of the helicopters flying up the towers starting August 8th?

On a related note, is anyone close enough to get some pictures of the helicopters flying up the towers starting August 8th?I've got line-of-sight to the peak of Mansfield from my house. If I can manage to find my tripod, I'll try to take some video on the 8th (my video camera has much higher zoom than my still camera).

Unfortunately, I'd be shooting through something like 30 miles of summer haze, so a decent shot is not likely.

Looks like the weather will cooperate Aug 8th for tower raising!
Sunny and upper 70's. Got my fingers crossed....... :D

Woooohooo we shall see....I am still hoping cause looks like mansfield is going to be my last resort for OTA HD. According to VT PBS ST J is full power right now and I cant get them. And so is Littleton for NH PBS and I cant pull them in either. And theres no chance in hell from the southern part of the state cause of mtns right behind me. Ugh......

Ok a personal update guys. I added antoher 6ft mast to my already 6ft then rotor then antoher 6ft mast so I am now 6ft rotor then 12ft up. I still cant get enough of a signal to pull in PBS from littleton or ST J. I have a good picture of 33 and 22 has a severe ghost to it 44 I can pick it up enough to watch. I cant check any VHF channels cause I have UHF only antenna. So What do you guys think when mansfield goes live will I get OTA DTV or not LOL. I have one last card up my sleeve. My uncle has a really long yagi style UHF antenna classified as Super Deep Fringe. Mine is only fringe. So when I can get up to whitefeild to get it I will give it shot has to be soon snow is goign to start falling LOL.

If you're getting a good picture on 22 and 33, you'll certainly be fine.

The only mystery right now is how WVNY's signal will behave on channel 13 with only 10kw... (I don't know yet if my UHF one will pick it up alone or if I'll need to add my channel 13 cut yagi to get it.

So, we're the 8th now! Any activity?

So, we're the 8th now! Any activity?Before I left for work this morning the peak was socked-in by clouds. Don't know if they cleared up enough to allow the tower to be, ummm, erected or not. I'll let you all know if I can see any new towers when I get home from work.

I am glad to see I am not the only one unhappy about the HD situation in VT. Most people don't seem to know, or care, we're about the last place to get it. All the posts seem to be concerned with OTA reception, I was wondering if anyone had any info on when the Worlds Worst Cable Company would start carrying the channels. Will it be day and date with the OTA? Or, like channel 3, will it start earlier? I have emailed all the GM's, but didn't get much useful info other than “they are excited the opportunity that HD brings... Blah Blah Blah".

If this info is given in an earlier post, my apologies, I looked before I asked, but I could have missed it...

Thanks...

Any updates about the work on August 8th - I'm getting antsy :o ;)

Hi everyone, I live in Morrisville, next to Stowe, and drive past the mountain each day to work.
No activity noted this morning or last night. Am keeping my eyes open for any sign of life at the top of the mountain.
I too am anxious for OTA - have my Samsung ST-415 hooked up and ready to go (although the CFO is annoyed that I have yet another box/gadget for the TV and Stereo).

I am glad to see I am not the only one unhappy about the HD situation in VT. Most people don't seem to know, or care, we're about the last place to get it. All the posts seem to be concerned with OTA reception, I was wondering if anyone had any info on when the Worlds Worst Cable Company would start carrying the channels. Will it be day and date with the OTA? Or, like channel 3, will it start earlier? I have emailed all the GM's, but didn't get much useful info other than “they are excited the opportunity that HD brings... Blah Blah Blah".

If this info is given in an earlier post, my apologies, I looked before I asked, but I could have missed it...

Thanks...
I am assuming your talking about charter. I have been in contact with the plant manager and said HD is really far out cause right now the headend in Danville which feeds most of VT's charter cable customers is fed via analog sat links. They have no fiber ran to get HD. Thats what he told me said it will be 2008 the earliest.

I am assuming your talking about charter. I have been in contact with the plant manager and said HD is really far out cause right now the headend in Danville which feeds most of VT's charter cable customers is fed via analog sat links. They have no fiber ran to get HD. Thats what he told me said it will be 2008 the earliest.


Thanks, but I was talking about Adelphia... I should have been more specific. That's too bad about Charter... sounds like Adelphia is only the second worst cable company in the world.

Thanks, but I was talking about Adelphia... I should have been more specific. That's too bad about Charter... sounds like Adelphia is only the second worst cable company in the world.

At some point Adelphia is supposed to be switching over to Comcast. Unfortunately, the employees have absolutely no clue what's going on. One CSR even told me that we were definitely switching to Time Warner.

One CSR even told me that we were definitely switching to Time Warner.WEll, they are, for a very short period of time, aren't they? After which TW will re-sell it to Comcast.

As for Mt. Mansfield... I've been taking a look at the peak over the last couple of days. Got out my binoculars yesterday, in fact. I can't make out any new towers, just the pre-existing ones.

I guess that I should probably give them a week before calling back. I'm planning on going down there at the end of the month, AND THERE BETTER BE TOWERS WHEN I ARRIVE!

Do any of your guys have Direc**? Just wondering if anyone was granted the HD feeds - only FOX gave me there HD feed from NYC. ABC, CBS, and NBC denied my waivers for HD feeds. It ticks me off cause I'd love to get the NFL games on NBC & CBS in HD this season. That's one of the biggest reasons I upgraded all of my equipment!! :( :(

18 months ago I asked for HD waivers and was denied...including FOX.

It was true last time I checked that if you lived in certain parts of the state (castleton) the Directv website stated you were eligible for the national feeds based on DNS.

Last time I looked at mansfield two days ago I did not see anything..I'll look again tonight.

I sent an email to WCAX asking about the DTV tower install. Here's the response I got...

The new towers have been delayed. The new date is 21 August. There will be 3 new towers set with a Helicopter.

Howard S. Holden
Transmitter Supervisor
WCAX TV

I sent an email to WCAX asking about the DTV tower install. Here's the response I got...


And on aug 21 it will be delayed yet again....

Tabarnac! I need those stations up for the November sweeps!

Be prepared to wait quite a while even after the towers are up. There will undoubtedly be glitches with encoders, etc with some or all of the stations depending how experienced their engineers are.

I know WCAX & WPTZ do have HD broadcast experience but not sure about the ABC & FOX affiliates.

WPTZ's (NBC) sister station, WNNE-DT has a great signal from Mt Ascutney but it took them quite a few months after they had the towers up to get it together. I expect the experience gained from that will help WPTZ.

WCAX has had an HD feed to Adelphia for a while now but they could still encounter transmitter problems when they actually try to broadcast.

Does anyone know the status of all the broadcast equipment & facilities for the respective affiliates - in other words, what still has to be done after the towers are installed before they can start testing?

WCAX and WPTZ are all ready and just need a transmitter. WFFF will likely be given a splicer from Fox. I don't know about WVNY but I was told by them they plan on broadcasting HD this fall.

WCAX and WPTZ are all ready and just need a transmitter. WFFF will likely be given a splicer from Fox. I don't know about WVNY but I was told by them they plan on broadcasting HD this fall.

I guess the big question (for a lot of us) is whether their future digital signals will reach out any further than their current analog signals. It's always been a problem for many of us in the Connecticut river valley area of VT & NH to get a watchable picture from the Burlington stations, so it will be interesting to see if digital shows up at all.

I think the only way there would ever be decent coverage throughout VT & NH is if the other 3 networks would do the same as WPTZ and put up towers on Mt Ascutney too.

The Burlington stations will also need to either have repeaters to serve the western part of the Adirondacks, or the networks will have to find people willing to start brand-new affiliate stations in that "white" area between Burlington, VT and Watertown, NY. It would also be nice if they would install their transmitters with the intention of reaching Ottawa.

The Burlington stations will also need to either have repeaters to serve the western part of the Adirondacks, or the networks will have to find people willing to start brand-new affiliate stations in that "white" area between Burlington, VT and Watertown, NY. It would also be nice if they would install their transmitters with the intention of reaching Ottawa.

That brings up a question I've never seen answered: Are there any "repeaters" for digital signals yet or plans to do so?

I know they've had repeaters for analog signals for quite a while now but they're actually a hindrance in one sense because they technically prevent a person that's in a digital "white" area from qualifying for HD DNS via satellite because there's an analog signal available.

A perfect example is WMUR (channel 9 in Manchester NH). No way I get any ABC OTA where I am but because they have a repeater in White River, VT, I can't qualify for ABC's HD DNS with Direct TV.

Hello,

I live in Montreal (near Jacques Cartier bridge) and I am waiting for Mount Mansfield to broadcast HDTV and to install an antenna on the roof of our building (3 floors). I chose 2 models of antenna (both looks similar) and I would like to know if you think it worth it to install that kind of antenna. I actually have an antenna in my attics, a 4 bay type Delhi, to get the 2 channels in Montreal. Thanks. Tangara.

Delhi, Super Flying Arrow SFA-1483S

Channelmaster Diamond Yagi 3023/4248

I have the SFA, but keep in mind that these are UHF antennas, and that WVNY-DT (ABC) will unfortunately be broadcasting permanently on channel 13, which is VHF. I don't know yet if a UHF antenna by itself will be able to pick it up...

Thanks Foxfan, you seem to be pretty active on this forum, pretty good!

So, if I understand, you have a good HDTV reception with your actual SFA antenna. I wonder if that antenna would be as good as it is now when the broadcast will come from Mount Mansfield. Or, do the broadcast power for those five channels is supposed to be as strong as it is now on the HDTV we receive in Montreal from the Burlington- Plattsburgh area? Good advice on VHF, have you any antenna to recommend in that case (UHF+VHF). Thanks again.

There are some single-channel "cut" antennas available from Raybel in eastern Montreal. I got a single-channel 13 yagi antenna to add to my UHF one (unless my SFA pulls it in on its own).

Signals from Mt. Mansfield are super-easy to receive in Montreal. Look how well 22 analog comes in...

So tomorrow is supposed to be the big day for both towers right? I am not holding my breath hehehe

Don't jinx it!

Folks, I also got this email response from WCAX...

Tom: Your grapvine source was right, at one time. However, schedules do slip. Right now it looks like the week of 21 Aug but that might, much to my discomfort, slip to 28 Aug.

Cheers

Theodore J. Teffner
V.P. - Engineering
WCAX-TV

Tom, what was your initial question?

Also, WTF is holding them up? Weather? Rental choppers over-booked?

Tom, what was your initial question?I can't seem to find a copy of the sent message, but it was to the effect "I heard through the grapevine that your new DTV tower was scheduled to be installed Aug. 8th. It's now the 10th and I can't tell if it's there or not. Did the installation take place as planned"?

I got 2 reponses, the entirety of which I posted above.

I live about 1.5 miles from Mt Mansfeild still no sign of activity

wtf are they doing up there? Smoking with the environmentalists???

Never saw such a band of amateurs.

It's probably the damn weather. Even though it's nice down there right now, there is always this "chance of thunderstorms" hanging over them today, so they probably don't want to risk getting zapped while putting up the new towers...

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/cities/usa/Pages/USVT0233.htm

It should be nice tomorrow, rain for Thursday, nice on Friday, but "chance of thunderstorms" again on Saturday.

Damn it! There's always something!

My wife climbed around the top of Mt. Mansfield today (Tuesday, Aug 22) and reported back that there was no sign of any towers being erected. Just wanted to confirm what others have been reporting today... Hang in there...we will get HDTV in northern Vermont some day. :rolleyes:

Can anyone tell me why WCAX went from 801 kW erp to 628, as stated on the FCC site? I understand that it will still be easily receivable, but still like to know the expication...

To ERP appears to have been lowered to compensate for the changed antenna elevation (which will be 6 meters higher than before).

Also, it will be lowered again when they move to channel 22 in 2009 (to around 400kw I think).

Got thisfrom WETK this morning!!

Tower construction is expected the week of Sept. 6. Transmitter and
antenna work the week of Sept. 25. We hope to get a signal on the air in
October, so it's getting excitingly close. You're on my list of people to
alert when I know we're up and running. We expect WCAX and WPTZ to launch
about the same time.

September 6th? I wanted to go down on the 4th to see the towers :(
I'll probably be working on weekends after...

Forgive me if this has been discussed before - Once HD antenna are up on Mansfield does this automatically disqualify one for Directv HD reception for CBS,NBC,etc. HD programming in the 'local' market? I'm not sure if the local signal will fly thru Georgia Mtn once it is up.
Thanks!

September 6th? I wanted to go down on the 4th to see the towers :(
I'll probably be working on weekends after...


That is for the WETK tower. Hopefully, the 2 other ones will be up by then....
I don't have contact with the other broadcasters...Anyone does???

You should be able to get directv HD local feeds even with OTA. I have heard rumblings that they are slated to happen soon but do not know when.

You cannot get HD national feeds from Directiv w/o waivers...unless you live near Castleton which is in a white area. Also recently in this thread I thoight someone did successfully obtain a waiver from one of the local affiliates. I know they all blackballed me 2 years ago.

One note; Directv is still broadcasting "HD-lite" which is compressed HD..while the OTA signals will be (should be) true HD....side channels notwithstanding.

Yeah well once manny goes live it will be my last chance for REAL HD. I cant pull littleton or st j. And nothing from the southern part of the state either. I can pull in 22 33 good and 44 pretty good with my setup so I am hoping diigtal will be good for me.

You should be able to get directv HD local feeds even with OTA. I have heard rumblings that they are slated to happen soon but do not know when.

You cannot get HD national feeds from Directiv w/o waivers...unless you live near Castleton which is in a white area. Also recently in this thread I thoight someone did successfully obtain a waiver from one of the local affiliates. I know they all blackballed me 2 years ago.

One note; Directv is still broadcasting "HD-lite" which is compressed HD..while the OTA signals will be (should be) true HD....side channels notwithstanding.

Both "E" & "D" are doing HD-Lite now and it doesn't look like it will be going away anytime soon. HD OTA is so much better than either sat provider from what those that can get both are saying.

As for the delays and minor setbacks that are now happening on the mountain, this is exactly what I went through when WNNE-DT was in it's final stages. It's twice as frustrating because you think it's coming any minute and it keeps moving back by a few weeks, then a few days, etc.

Apparently there are a lot of little glitches that can happen that they don't know about until they start testing, so be prepared for more setbacks - it's part of the learning curve.

My hnuch, is that WPTZ should beat WCAX online only because they've already been through a lot of this with WNNE. If they're smart enough to put Rosendahl in charge, they may even be ready sooner.

With WNNE, I think there were encoder problems weren't there? There shouldn't be any problems with WPTZ and WCAX because they already have their HD signal internally... all they need is a transmitter and they're done!

With WNNE, I think there were encoder problems weren't there? There shouldn't be any problems with WPTZ and WCAX because they already have their HD signal internally... all they need is a transmitter and they're done!
You're probably / hopefully right. I think there were also coordination issues between WNNE & WPTZ too which shouldn't be a factor now.

Personally, I seriously doubt I'll receive any of the Burlington stations where I am, as I have the same problems with signal reception as many others over this side of the state.

I'd love to see Mt Ascutney get the other 3 networks. The upper Connecticut River Valley on both NH & VT sides has always been a signal problem and for many of us, Mt Ascutney is the only option left since the WMTW facilities burnt down on Mt Washington.

You're probably / hopefully right. I think there were also coordination issues between WNNE & WPTZ too which shouldn't be a factor now.

Personally, I seriously doubt I'll receive any of the Burlington stations where I am, as I have the same problems with signal reception as many others over this side of the state.

I'd love to see Mt Ascutney get the other 3 networks. The upper Connecticut River Valley on both NH & VT sides has always been a signal problem and for many of us, Mt Ascutney is the only option left since the WMTW facilities burnt down on Mt Washington.

I would love to see alot of channels rebroadcast via MT washington everyone can hear from that big boy :)

It's happening this week (WCAX/WPTZ and WVNY/WFFF towers going up)! Look out for a big chopper bringing stuff up starting tomorrow.

WETK is on their own and they'll be later.

It's happening this week (WCAX/WPTZ and WVNY/WFFF towers going up)! Look out for a big chopper bringing stuff up starting tomorrow.

WETK is on their own and they'll be later.


Yess sir!!!!

Is anyone taking pictures of this historical moment???

Is anyone taking pictures of this historical moment???FYI - The top of Manny today is socked-in by low clouds. Been like that for days.

Has anyone seen/heard anything in the area? It should have started today...

I havent heard no seen anything yet.

I keep watching this post for the big moment (tower installation).
My wife and I justed booked a stay in Stowe for Wednesday and Thursday.
I will bring my camera and watched for a chopper.

I justed changed my antenna for a CM4228 and crossed my finger.

lots of helicopter activety today!

Excellent news!!!!

Detailed description? Any photos??? :D

starting a little after 9 when the fog lifted and continuing till about 11 several large white and red helicopters made a number of flights from the stowe side to the to of mt Manfield. Through my Binoculars I was able to see one supending above the current towers what looked very much part of a tv tower. He then lowered it behind the ridge. It would have made a great photo but my binocular camera battery was dead. It was too far to see what the helicopter was lifting with a regular camera. I have gotten a new battery and if I see any more action will take pictures. It has gotten a little windy here near the mountain so maybe that is why there is a break in the action.

Well I just got some bad news. The antennas were mounted and before getting them secure a gust of wind toppled them over.....



Nah just kidding :)

Grrr. Don't do that!

There's a story about the prep work on the WCAX website currently. Good to see them talking about it publicly. (I'd link to the story, but it won't let me until I've made 5 posts. Sorry.)

It says they still expect to broadcast HD by early October:
Read on"Despite delays from weather and the challenges of a small, hard-to-get-to construction site, Teffner says the project is running on schedule. He expects this station to be broadcasting its digital signal by the first week in October. He adds, "When people see it, they'll want to buy it."
Hopefully he is right

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=5347410&nav=menu183_1

Here's a link to the story (incl. video):

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=5347410

I was surprised to see that they're assembling the towers by lifting what look like 10ft sections into place 1 by 1. I'd assumed they were going to lift a fully-assembled tower into place all at once.

am i going to have to get a special anntenna to get the hd signal? right now i have a uhf/vhf anntenna on my house and can pick up the pbs hd channel perfect. problem is i hook it up to my d* hd dvr with tivo receiver and the channel comes up on the guide but the when i go to the channel there is no picture in only says searching for pic. any help would be great..

Saw the helicopter overtop Mansfield at 400PM when I got home...tower looks great. I'm ~ 10 miles line of sight away.

dt33b; I would think not. If you can get PBS HD now with the antenna I would expect you have a shot at mansfield..of course location and line of sight depending. I'm ~ 45 miles from Mountain lake PBS in northern NY and I have a $40 radioshack VHF/UHF antenna in my attic and I get the signal.

I'd go to antennaweb.org and try and see what that tells you. It will give you distance from each station

Good luck.

There was a story on WPTZ tonight regarding the Mansfield antenna install. I was also surprised to see such short sections in the story. Maybe we have a structural engineer that can explain? My guess is there is no room for guy wires like WDEV radio and WCAX TV style in South Burlington.

Time frame for broadcast was stated as early/mid October.

Wow thats amazing I really would like tosee CBS HD like I used ot have in AZ.

people asked me yesterday to post a picture. There is something wrong with my binocular camera but this I took from my house today with a regular camera. The HDTV tower is the one on the left. the tower is now by far the tallest there. Amazing how fast this is going also amazing how the helicopter can position these pieces just right.

Tomtre,
Thanks for the picture. Living that close all you need to do is hang a piece of wire off your tv! I'm happy that theres some progress on Mansfield, lets hope for no other delays. :)

Yeah Def thanks for the pics....I hope that the digital will make it out here in groton

I wonder if this excerpt from Thurston's article is an indication that the HD LiLs will be available on "E" and / or "D" this Fall too?

"A suped-up signal is already available through Adelphia cable, but come this fall, customers of other cable companies, satellite providers, and people who receive our programming by antenna will see HDTV."

You know walt I was thinking the same thing. And we all know the other cable companies (charter) wont be getting any HD....so time to start thinking about getting dish back again....they been calling me with some great offers. $50 bucks for the VIP622...with a 18month contract.

Thanks for the updates and picture - this is awesome!!!!!!!! Crossing fingers for no problems!!!

I justed came back from Stowe. My wife and I stay at Stowehof's where we had a nice view at Mt-Mansfield from the pool side.
I keep watching the montain top while reading my paper..... I saw the chopper.
I took some pictures and jump on my motorcycle to go closer.
The tollroad going to the top didn't allow motorcycle to go up (only car).
I moved to the gondola area and took a shoot.

I was going back to the hotel and ...... by luck found the chopper landing spot with all the equipment beeing lifted to the top. (part of supporting structure and antenna in 3 section). I meet and shatted with those folks and took more pictures.

Let me try to post some. First group will be some view from the hotel and gondola.

Check the tower on the left side of the picture (between #2 and #19).
You will noticed that a section was add. 30 minute between those 2 pictures.

Stay tuned. I will post the most interesting on my next posts.

I can only post 3 pictures on a post.

Now picture from the chopper landing area.

Wow thanks for the pics...so how many more sections does there appear to be left? Not that it matters not like when the tower is up the antennas will be up and ready..I really do hope that first week in OCT they are testing. Im sure it will be low power so I wont be able to pick it up but heres to hoping.......

You can see a structure section being lifted. Lot of winds under the chopper. I had to moved my bike away from the area to avoid free sand-blast paint job.

You can see the antenna in 3 sections. 2 on the ground (top and bottom) and the mid section on the truck. Lots of pipings and antennas (all passive device).

Those folks are from "Pylon" ( I am not sure 100% with the chopper noise !!!???)
They were very nice with me and let me took pictures without problems.
One guy showed me the antenna propagation pattern (engineered by Manual which was on site). I saw a lob going East and West and another bigger going South but.... nothing North (tuff luck for Canadians folks). I hope this will not prevent Montreal to received a good signal !!!????

A big thanks to those guys.

Note: I just forgot to ask for a ride to the top while they installed the tower. I should have asked but now to late. I was too exited. Probable answer to expect would have be NO but I should have try ...... Dam-me.

No more pics. My antenna is ready. Stay-tune.

Anyone know the exact height of this new antenna?

Andrec, for the antenna patterns. It depends which one you look at. WCAX and WFFF have an almost omni-directional pattern. WVNY and WPTZ have to use a more directional pattern that reduces their signal towards the north-east (especially WVNY since there is already a channel 13 in Trois-Rivieres). However, both have told me that they do intend on reaching Montreal (the west/northwest lobe looks strong enough). Remember that we're lucky in the Montreal area since we all have a direct line-of-sight to Mt. Mansfield, so their power levels shouldn't have too much of an effect. Also, the contour maps show the contour at 41db, even though the minimum for a "lock" is only 15db.

Those folks are from "Pylon" ( I am not sure 100% with the chopper noise !!!???)
They were very nice with me and let me took pictures without problems.
One guy showed me the antenna propagation pattern (engineered by Manual which was on site). I saw a lob going East and West and another bigger going South but.... nothing North (tuff luck for Canadians folks). I hope this will not prevent Montreal to received a good signal !!!????

A big thanks to those guys.

Note: I just forgot to ask for a ride to the top while they installed the tower. I should have asked but now to late. I was too exited. Probable answer to expect would have be NO but I should have try ...... Dam-me.

No more pics. My antenna is ready. Stay-tune.

And a big thanks to you Andrec for the great pics.

Those folks are from "Pylon" ( I am not sure 100% with the chopper noise !!!???)
They were very nice with me and let me took pictures without problems.
One guy showed me the antenna propagation pattern (engineered by Manual which was on site). I saw a lob going East and West and another bigger going South but.... nothing North (tuff luck for Canadians folks). I hope this will not prevent Montreal to received a good signal !!!????

A big thanks to those guys.

Note: I just forgot to ask for a ride to the top while they installed the tower. I should have asked but now to late. I was too exited. Probable answer to expect would have be NO but I should have try ...... Dam-me.

No more pics. My antenna is ready. Stay-tune.

Yes, thank you for the pics, really amazing!! My set up is ready for lauch!!!

Heck, I've been ready more than a year ago! Only problem is that my tower collapsed during the winter and now I'm using a tower that's less than half the size (should still be ok to receive digital), but it's not complete yet. I'm waiting to see if my UHF-only antenna will manage to pick up WVNY or if I'll have to add my single-channel 13 antenna to receive it.

Heck, I've been ready more than a year ago! Only problem is that my tower collapsed during the winter and now I'm using a tower that's less than half the size (should still be ok to receive digital), but it's not complete yet. I'm waiting to see if my UHF-only antenna will manage to pick up WVNY or if I'll have to add my single-channel 13 antenna to receive it.

We'll see in a month or so.

I have vhf/uhf antenna plus one for channel 13. I also have a Q trap for the big antenna to kill channel 12. If it's not enough, i'll plug in the 13 only. I just can't wait (...another 10 years...) for CFCF to turn off it's channel 12 and be Digital only on 21. Then, i just hope not to go this round again with CBS on channel 22 in 2009!!!!

Otherwise, i'll just kill CFCF signal. I never watch it anyway

One thing is for sure is that i won't have any simsub on the u.s nets!!! About time!!!

I have the feeling that when CFCF turns off its analog, it will move its digital channel back to 12 (as CFTM is planning on doing with channel 10). Digital stations don't really affect neighboring channels anyway.

Nevertheless, I just hope that WVNY will be up soon enough that it will allow us to make the necessary adjustments to receive it (change antennas, install traps, etc) before the arrival of cold weather and snow.

Nevertheless, I just hope that WVNY will be up soon enough that it will allow us to make the necessary adjustments to receive it (change antennas, install traps, etc) before the arrival of cold weather and snow.

Hopefully, we'll know before 10 feet of snow comes down!!! Climbing a 40 feet tower at -20 is no fun!!!!!!

Hopefully, we'll know before 10 feet of snow comes down!!! Climbing a 40 feet tower at -20 is no fun!!!!!!


Ahh its all good as long as you dont stick your tongue on it :)......heres a couple pics of my setup

Sorry they are slanted cant upload them when vertical cause syas they are too big....

Ahh its all good as long as you dont stick your tongue on it :)......


I'll keep that in mind!!!!! lol

check this out....

http://www.wcax.com/Global/SearchResults.asp?qu=hdtv

JMcgee, I see you're also using just a UHF antenna. Are you going to get a single-channel 13 antenna if WVNY doesn't come in with it, or is there another ABC affiliate from NH that you can receive there?

Nope I am hoping that I will be able to pick up 13 relativly well with it alot of people seem to have some good luck with these radio shack brands. I also have a CM 4228 I can use but I get better results from the RADIO Shack Antenna. I cant pull anything from NH or VT right now but what is off mansfield. I can only get a few bars of PBS out of littleton and the same with PBS off Burke. So Mansfield is going to be my last ditch effort. I might be moving to ST J to be closer to my work but I will be renting unlike my house I have in Groton now. So I will hopefully be able to check there as well.

Anyone with any updates at all?

Not an update but just an observation.

With all the hype about Dish probably going to loose their distants license any time now, I said the heck with it and added my Vt locals back to my programming. I did it online, and as yet haven't lost my dns but expect to anytime. I wanted it to happen on my terms instead of all of a sudden sitting down to watch "House" or "Lost" only to find I had no networks at all.

Anyway, within 5 minutes of going online, my locals were on my 622 and within 2 minutes of that I was reminded of why I "chose" DNS over LiLs last year. 3 out of 4 of the Burlington network stations were broadcasting friggen "paid programming, info-mercials" instead of regular network programming!

I swear the Burlington stations are the epitome of why most viewers would rather have distant nets than their locals.

Also, these stations were on Dish's list of possible HD LiLs for this year but I hear that's been scrapped. It wouldn't surprise me that this is due to these stations having too high an opinion of themselves and trying to get Dish to pay a lot more than they're worth. These affiliates need to wake up or they may be looking at hard times that even the NAB can't protect them from.

Hey walt a update on the Vermont HD from charter possibly. I jsut realized that sometime in the last 3-4 weeks we have been upgraded from 64 QAM to 256 which is a good inkling they are going to be deploying HD. And IRRC cable providers give locals in HD for free if you have a box that can dicipher QAM then you can pull em for free cause you have locals already from charter right like 2-21?

Hey walt a update on the Vermont HD from charter possibly. I jsut realized that sometime in the last 3-4 weeks we have been upgraded from 64 QAM to 256 which is a good inkling they are going to be deploying HD. And IRRC cable providers give locals in HD for free if you have a box that can dicipher QAM then you can pull em for free cause you have locals already from charter right like 2-21?

I may have to take my 811 out of mothballs as I think it recognized some flavor of Qam. I may have disconnected it before that upgrade came though.

Well I just talked with Danville and they said they said there is absolutly no plan for Charter in this area to be going HD anytime soon.

My source said that the person at Charter that was "pushing" for HD is no longer there and things kind of fizzled when he left. I honestly can't understand how they expect to stay in business.

I talked with the Adelphia guy in Barre last year and he said although they did have a fair HD selection, they couldn't / wouldn't come into Charter's territory.

Well that friggen blows....I hate charter...so much. I am wondering why they did the QAM upgrade then its not like we had so many channels that we needed the added bandwith or something....whatever. Looks like itll be time to call up Dish and switch back...

i am trying to use my d* hr10-250 hd with tivo receiver to pick up ota local networks in hd. i am trying to prepare for the hopeful near future of cbs nbc ect. going hd. i know that pbs is in hd so i am trying to get that through the receiver. i can get the pbs stations 28.1,28.2,28.5 when i hook my rooftop anntenna straight to my hd ready tv. when i hook the cable to the dish receiver it says the signal for those stations are not strong enough. someone suggested an amplifier. what kind or what is it i would need to get? is it something that is indoors or does it go on the roof? any help would be great

I live in Burlington and am about to purchase an HDTV. Are any OTA HD channels currently available here? Thanks.

I live in Burlington and am about to purchase an HDTV. Are any OTA HD channels currently available here? Thanks.Go back and look at the first post in this thread. I think the info there still applies (except for the fact the VPT is now also available in HD over Adelphia cable).

As you can see in the more-recent posts, the network affiliates have been hard at work installing new towers in just the last few weeks, and claim that they will be OTA from Mount Mansfield in October.

My jaded opinion is: I'll believe it when I see it.

Well I've had some emails from WPTZ and they're saying the "target date is still Oct-15th for on the air. Look for testing on channel 14 sometime before that. :)

In other news:

I asked about sporting events:
"WPTZ & WNNE run the SAME programs. That means whatever NBC picks for
sports shows. we BOTH air at the same time."

I asked about multicasting:
"WNNE-DT is single stream now, WPTZ-DT will start with a single stream.
Before the end of the year we expect to add a second (same) program stream
that will be a full time weather channel (mix of national & local)"

In response to my asking about PQ of satellite LiLs:
"DishNet and DirecTV have both been having problems with signal quality.
Remember, they send our local signal out to their Rocky Mountains up link
site before customers see it. Thats a LOT of fiber and equipment that can
screw up!"

When I asked about their digital feeds being included in HD LiLs anytime soon:
"Local HDTV carriage by either company is totally up to them. The issue
in front of the FCC is if they will be COMPELLED to carry the main channel
only or EVERYTHING each station offers (vatiable bit streaming or fixed).
We're all waiting for the answer to this one!"

That's it for now. I also want to thank WPTZ for being so responsive and forthcoming with this information.

Has anybody received word from WVNY or WFFF? I watch more ABC and FOX than I do CBS and NBC.

Wow this is really sounding great...I have my Samsung TIR-451 hooked up to my Radio Shack x74 antenna and CM7777 preamp....Like I said before I can get 33 ok with a little ghosting..and 22 good with just a bit of ghosting. and 44 I get watchable no ghosting just a bit of snow. I cant test channel 3 cause of UHF only. I really hope I can get thse guys with my setup I just dont think I could bear living in my house when manny is done if I cant get any HD :)

[QUOTE=waltinvt]Well I've had some emails from WPTZ and they're saying the "target date is still Oct-15th for on the air. Look for testing on channel 14 sometime before that. :)

In other news:

I asked about sporting events:
"WPTZ & WNNE run the SAME programs. That means whatever NBC picks for
sports shows. we BOTH air at the same time."

I asked about multicasting:
"WNNE-DT is single stream now, WPTZ-DT will start with a single stream.
Before the end of the year we expect to add a second (same) program stream
that will be a full time weather channel (mix of national & local)"
QUOTE]

So do they plan on multicasting on WNNE? I hope not since it will surely ruin the HD, like most other NBC's out there.

It's a shame that there is probably no chance in hell that I'll get these stations down here(Claremont NH). I'd really like to get a non satellite CBS.

jmcgee_jr,
Sounds like a nice system. I live in Chazy NY and so far I have a Radio Shack Vu190 and a VOOM HD Sat box. If you find a VOOM reciever that was not disabled when Voom went belly up you'll have a nice OTA HD receiver. I picked one up on Ebay for $40.
My antenna points north and WCFE 57 is south of me. Analog 57 is almost un watchable (Snowy and ghosty) but when I turn on the Voom box the HD 57 is almost perfectly clear , I did on occasion get some pixalization. When I swing the antenna around no problems, I was impressed how well HD worked with a poor signal though! Sounds like you'll have no trouble with HD with your current setup. Good luck to all .

[QUOTE=Coach Gibbs
So do they plan on multicasting on WNNE? I hope not since it will surely ruin the HD, like most other NBC's out there.

It's a shame that there is probably no chance in hell that I'll get these stations down here(Claremont NH). I'd really like to get a non satellite CBS.[/QUOTE]

Yes both WNNE-DT & WPTZ-DT plan to add a 2nd stream - the NBC weather grid which many NBCs are doing. It's a mix of national & local weather.

I'm not sure we need to get too worked up about multicasting just yet - at least not with them only adding a 2nd channel. VtPbs (24) from Mt Ascutney has been multicasting off & on and I haven't noticed any difference. It's still a whole lot better than the HD coming from Dish & DirectTv.

I do have emails in to WCAX, WVNY & WFFF and will post what I can when I can. Although historically none of those stations have been as responsive and forthcoming as WNNE & WPTZ but we'll see.

Living in PHX I can tell you that I could not tell any differences when DTV channels were simulcasting. The PBS signal was actually 4 channels in PHX First was HD ver then SD Ver then PBS Kids and then some other PBS latino or somehting. THey all looked great. Same wtih Fox and NBC all looked great even though simulcasting 1-3 channels.

Yes both WNNE-DT & WPTZ-DT plan to add a 2nd stream - the NBC weather grid which many NBCs are doing. It's a mix of national & local weather.

I'm not sure we need to get too worked up about multicasting just yet - at least not with them only adding a 2nd channel. VtPbs (24) from Mt Ascutney has been multicasting off & on and I haven't noticed any difference. It's still a whole lot better than the HD coming from Dish & DirectTv.

I do have emails in to WCAX, WVNY & WFFF and will post what I can when I can. Although historically none of those stations have been as responsive and forthcoming as WNNE & WPTZ but we'll see.


Well that's a shame. I'm sure the PQ during sports will suffer from it.

Living in PHX I can tell you that I could not tell any differences when DTV channels were simulcasting. The PBS signal was actually 4 channels in PHX First was HD ver then SD Ver then PBS Kids and then some other PBS latino or somehting. THey all looked great. Same wtih Fox and NBC all looked great even though simulcasting 1-3 channels.

Well you seem to be in minority when it comes to this. I can't see how a football game or another program with a lot of action will not suffer from the reduced bandwidth. I'll never see the Burlington stations so I don't care much what they do, but I was hoping WNNE would leave things alone.