Okay, boys and girls, I added another 6 feet to my mast, moved my DB4 to the top of it and now I get WVNY mapped to 22-1 at about 55%. I suspect that means that I will lose it during inclement weather. I get WCAX at 80%, VPT-HD (32-7) and WFFF at 98%. So the question is whether to install the Winegard high band VHF that should arrive Tuesday or return it. I need some inclement weather to help me decide and that could be this evening. To those for whom I expressed doubt that they were receiving VHF stations over the UHF DB4, you have been vindicated. Height is everything. For $10, I could get another mast section from Radio Shack and move the DB4 from 10 feet to 16 feet off the roof.

Ok so I just went to the mall to get my haircut and of course I couldn't help stopping into Radioshack to see what they had for antennas. I bought the Philips Silver Sensor a couple months ago at Circuit City. Long story short the Silver Sensor just got boxed back up and has been instantly replaced with the Radio Shack "Cat. 15-892" (I think that's the model number anyway - only thing I could find on the box). Anyway for the same price as the silver sensor (49.99) this thing so far blows the sensor away. It has an internal rotating multi-directional antenna, a backlit LCD display, adustable gain (up to 22db), a fricken remote, and the ability to save directional settings. Are you kidding me? Anyway, with the gain on level one, I now receive all channels crystal-clear, where before with the sensor I was having to move it around a bit if I changed channels. And one more thing - I haven't even messed with moving the direction of the antenna yet.

Side Note: My wife did say "What the hell is that thing?" In case you haven't seen it yet, it looks like a thin black flying saucer on a stand. Kind of funny looking - but kind of retro though.

Thanks for the info Scott, I think I will follow your lead and try the RS one instead of the silver sensor.

Okay, boys and girls, I added another 6 feet to my mast, moved my DB4 to the top of it and now I get WVNY mapped to 22-1 at about 55%. I suspect that means that I will lose it during inclement weather. I get WCAX at 80%, VPT-HD (32-7) and WFFF at 98%. So the question is whether to install the Winegard high band VHF that should arrive Tuesday or return it. I need some inclement weather to help me decide and that could be this evening. To those for whom I expressed doubt that they were receiving VHF stations over the UHF DB4, you have been vindicated. Height is everything. For $10, I could get another mast section from Radio Shack and move the DB4 from 10 feet to 16 feet off the roof.

I Can't believe this you are only 10,5 miles from Mount Mansfield and you are having trouble getting the signal. :confused:

I Can't believe this you are only 10,5 miles from Mount Mansfield and you are having trouble getting the signal. :confused:
13.5 miles actually and at 1100 feet with direct LOS to the towers, but I'm having trouble getting a VHF signal with a UHF antenna. The high band VHF antenna I ordered should do the trick, but we shouldn't have to go through this to get one station in HD. The DB4 was originally only a couple of feet off the roof so there may have been some reflection issues that prevented reception of chan 13, but still the signal is low enough that I will lose it every time it rains or snows, so I'll install the VHF antenna for a stable signal.

If CFCF was causing interference problems, you wouldn't have been able to view CKTM, and if WVNY's signal was strong enough, it should have canceled out CKTM.

WVNY is too weak! When the (bleep) are they going to admit it???


To complete what you say about WVNY, I have a powerful VHF antenna WADE Delhi Log periodic VIP-306SR at 62 feet’s High. It is well installed, I was an electronics technician.

When I oriented my antenna to three Rivers my reception of CKTM channel 13 is good with a little bit of snow.

When my antenna is oriented to Burlington, on analog channel 13, I only have snow no interference from CFCF and no signal from CKTM.

When I switch to Digital 13 or scan digital channels, I have no signal at all on channel 13.

It is evident that they not reach Repentigny with there signal.

WVNY has 10KW power and it is not oriented to Montreal, WCAX channel 3 has 38KW power with uniform directional pattern and there is a little bit of snow in the picture in Repentigny. Lower VHF channels are better for long distance reception than higher VHF channel.

I believe that the engineers at WVNY did know that they would not reach Montreal with that temporary transmitter. In the mean time, they didn’t have the choice to use channel 13 and they wait 2009 transition to use there analog channel 22 for digital transmission.

Am I the only one who's ripped that the NFL games on both WCAX & WFFF are in SD?

Am I the only one who's ripped that the NFL games on both WCAX & WFFF are in SD?

I'm on Adelphia, so I don't get WFFF HD anyway, but I am really disappointed that the Giants game on CBS is not being broadcast in HD.

In the Cowboys/Redskins we had the halftime show in HD but the game isn't. They even showed a shot of the Redskins stadium in HD but then it was back to the SD for the start of the 3rd quarter.

Now it's back in HD for the 4th quarter, weird...

I believe that the engineers at WVNY did know that they would not reach Montreal with that temporary transmitter. In the mean time, they didn’t have the choice to use channel 13 and they wait 2009 transition to use there analog channel 22 for digital transmission.

Except they negociated with WCAX to let them use ch. 22 after the transition. (WCAX did not have the option to stay on 53, since in the US, channels above 51 will be allocated to non-broadcast use after 2009)

According to the FCC database, WVNY elected to stay on 13:

In the First Channel Election - Licensee/Permittee makes the following channel election from its currently assigned NTSC/DTV channels: 13

Who knows -- maybe they'll find another channel.
Economically, I'm not sure it will affect them much, as long as Videotron continues to carry them.

I think its ironic that the station that made cable less necessary will now only be visible on cable in Montreal -- and that's only if Videotron plays ball.

(Between 1959 and 1968, the only way to get ABC in Montreal was to subscribe to Cable TV or National Cablevision to get channel 8 from the top of Mount Washington. There were only a few places on Mount Royal that could pick up WMTW without too much interference from CJSS-TV 8 in Lancaster (now CJOH-TV8). Because many people could pick up 22 over the air, and because 22 could provide a cleaner picture than a sometimes snowy and always "venetian-blinded" WMTW, cable started picking up both channels. Later on, when Videotron was afraid that new copyright rules would force it to pay for the WMTW signal, it dropped WMTW, and transferred its grandfathered ability to carry two American networks on a Basic service to PBS. )

TVl

Now it's back in HD for the 4th quarter, weird...

Did anyone experience dropouts on WFFF during the Cowboys-Redskins game today (Sunday)? I had a lot of audio dropouts and occasional video blocking. The signal was rock steady at 80%, even when the droputs occured, so it's hard to believe it was a signal problem. No dropouts on any of the other Mansfield stations. Hadn't noticed dropouts on WFFF before, but I don't watch Fox all that much except for football.

I also noticed the game started in HD, went SD, then went back to HD. I was wondering if maybe the dropouts were at the WFFF end and the techs were playing around trying to fix it.

DG

Perhaps a coincidence but had trouble watching it on Dish.
BTW does anyone get the guide data on their OTA channels using a 622?

I am in Pointe-Claire, and I cannot get WFFF at all.
I get WCAX(53) at 77% and WETK(32) at 77% also.
I can receive WCFE(38) at 69% if I turn my antenna slightly.

Is WFFF broadcasting that low? It seems that everyone that is receiving WCAX receives WFFF.

I do not have a pre-amp but have a 20db distribution amp before my tuner which increasing the percentage a little but I do not receive WFFF.

Any ideas?

WFFF is currently broadcasting at low power from a temporary antenna since it wasn't able to complete its main one in time. They are expected to stay this way until the spring, when they'll be able to complete their full power one. I don't have any problems picking it up on the south shore.

At least we know that their signal is going to get better. In WVNY's case, they are already at "full power" and have no plans to improve it.

BTW does anyone get the guide data on their OTA channels using a 622?I've got the Dish ViP622. I'm getting EPG data for 003-1, 033-1, 044-1, and 057-1. Everything else just says "Digital Programming".

So it appears to be a PBS problem-the only one I get(off Burke Mtn)

If I can't get hi-def signals without a major antenna my new 46" TV is going back to costco and I'll wait till dish carries local HD, a long wait I'm sure. :( Oh well

I've got the Dish ViP622. I'm getting EPG data for 003-1, 033-1, 044-1, and 057-1. Everything else just says "Digital Programming".
It's a known Dish "issue". They aren't using the PSID info for the 00 & 01 subcarrier's info, they just map the info from the satellite local channel to the 00 & 01 subcarriers. Hence because Dish doesn't carry any of the subchannels, they have no info to map to the other subchannels and you just get "Digital Service". If you don't subscribe to satellite locals, you get "Digital Service" even on the 00 & 01 subs. Of course people bitch about this, but really Dish doesn't care if they incorporate PSID info, because they don't make any money on the feature and they'd rather you subscribe to their over compressed watered down HD or SD locals, when or if they ever carry them in your area.

Hey guys, I have been lurking for months and decided to jump in now, anyway, I have the dish 622 and I live in the Burlington area, I was receiving the OTA locals with signal strengths all in the 80's-90's and at about 4 this afternoon everything dropped out and the have not come back, I was wondering if the mount Mansfield facility was pulled off line for some reason, thanks a lot, in advance

Hey guys, I have been lurking for months and decided to jump in now, anyway, I have the dish 622 and I live in the Burlington area, I was receiving the OTA locals with signal strengths all in the 80's-90's and at about 4 this afternoon everything dropped out and the have not come back, I was wondering if the mount Mansfield facility was pulled off line for some reason, thanks a lot, in advanceI doubt very much all of the stations would go offline simultaneously. I suggest you "reboot" your 622 by holding down the power button on the front panel for about 5 seconds (until the front light flash and you hear the fan).

I doubt very much all of the stations would go offline simultaneously. I suggest you "reboot" your 622 by holding down the power button on the front panel for about 5 seconds (until the front light flash and you hear the fan).

Thanks for the info, but I already tried it, I have one of those radio shack antennas, see the top of this page, is it possible it went bad?

Oh, wasn't your terrific VHF signal supposed to bend beyond terrain obstructions and reach everywhere where UHF won't, WVNY??? :rolleyes:



It would help if they were running more power toward the North. See the antenna plot here:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=71724&rotate=0.00&p0=0.145&p10=0.170&p20=0.180&p30=0.160&p40=0.145&p50=0.200&p60=0.324&p70=0.475&p80=0.625&p90=0.763&p100=0.873&p110=0.945&p120=0.985&p130=1.000&p140=0.990&p150=0.970&p160=0.945&p170=0.925&p180=0.915&p190=0.905&p200=0.905&p210=0.905&p220=0.920&p230=0.935&p240=0.955&p250=0.980&p260=0.995&p270=0.998&p280=0.975&p290=0.920&p300=0.831&p310=0.710&p320=0.565&p330=0.411&p340=0.267&p350=0.165&p360=0.145&

They probably won't be able to because the morons that previously owned this station chose a channel that was already being used by an analog station only 135 miles away to the north/northeast.

I am in Pointe-Claire, and I cannot get WFFF at all.
I get WCAX(53) at 77% and WETK(32) at 77% also.
I can receive WCFE(38) at 69% if I turn my antenna slightly.

Is WFFF broadcasting that low? It seems that everyone that is receiving WCAX receives WFFF.

I do not have a pre-amp but have a 20db distribution amp before my tuner which increasing the percentage a little but I do not receive WFFF.

Any ideas?


This amplifier give you noting, you amplify the signal after he reach the noise level and you amplify the noise to.

At UHF there are a big lost in the coax cable from your antenna.

On channel 44 (650Mhz) the lost is around 16db for 20 meters of RG 59 cable. As an example16 db lost, is signal divided by 40 ( 13db for 10 meters of cable, is signal divided by 20 ).

In UHF at 70 miles from the transmitter, it is very important to put a low noise preamplifier at the antenna, before the lost of signal, and use RG6 cable if you have a long cable run. If you are close to Mont Royal use a low noise amplifier with less than 20 db of gain an with an high input like 90 000 microvolt.

Thanks ABCFan.
When I am in the States, I will pick up a pre-amp.
I cannot find them locally.
I am using RG-6 and my cable run is short at about 25 feet.

I tried a 30db pre-amp at my Longueuil location, and while it did allow me to go slightly above the "cliff" last night when there was some mild tropo, I just have a pixelated mess this morning. :mad:

I'm talking about WVNY of course, since all the others are in the 80s and 90s.

WPTZ is supposed to get the new part installed today and come online in HD. If anyone gets it, please post. Would love to see "Heroes" in HD tonight! Actually, I would like to see WPTZ with a clear picture period. Even on DishNet, it looks like I'm watching it through a screen door, even on my SD sets.
Thanks!

Actually, I would like to see WPTZ with a clear picture period. Even on DishNet, it looks like I'm watching it through a screen door, even on my SD sets.Ditto. Of all the locals, I've been wanting WPTZ the most, since the PQ for this station OTA and over satellite stinks.

From Joe at WPTZ today:
Major failure in transmitter. Factory reps in
Wednesday morning to try rebuild!

Ouch. I hope they'll be able to at least launch a temporary low-power broadcast so that we can get something until the spring in the event that they won't get the full power one fixed in time.

Hope it doesn't affect their sister station, WNNE-DT from Ascutney. I've been watching "Heros" there since it started and the HD quality is among the best I've ever seen.

So I got to thinking that it would be really handy to have a way to catalog what kind of HDTV reception people are getting. Even better, if it could be on a map.

Well, I got to playing around with Google Earth and put together a KMZ file. Follow the link below, then right click on the file "vttom.kmz" and choose Save Target As... Once it's on your harddrive, you can double-click it to open it inside Google Earth):

http://mysite.verizon.net/avs.vttom/downloads/

All it contains is a bunch of push-pins for some of the cities/towns that I remember being mentioned in this forum. If you click on "Essex", which is where I live, you find I've filled in details about my antenna, my HDTV receiver, and the signals I can receive.

If people like this, and want to post here or PM me their details, I'd be happy to update the kml file.

I lost VNY sometime between Sunday PM and today @ 5. Is there anyone having simial problems today? (I'm in Essex)

I had the PENN STATE game in HD on Saturday and golf (SD) SUNDAY now tonight *poof*

I think they (@VNY) really got this one wrong!!

I lost VNY sometime between Sunday PM and today @ 5.I checked WVNY-DT last night around 8:00, and everything looked OK to me.

I checked WVNY-DT last night around 8:00, and everything looked OK to me.



Thanks, I guess I'll just keep trying.

I'm only able to barely lock WVNY at night with an outdoor antenna and a preamp. It's too weak during the day.

What to do???

I'm only able to barely lock WVNY at night with an outdoor antenna and a preamp. It's too weak during the day.

What to do???

Perhaps find out how WVNY is doing with their field surveys (if they're doing any on the Canadian side -- I expect thay have to). I would expect that they can't do anything for you in Longueil per se, since you're outside of the 41 dBu contours, because you're not 'supposed' to be able to get the signal. However, if it's true that the signal is not easily receivable between the US border and A-10, an area that's supposed to be within the 41 dBu contour that is meant to replicate ch. 22's Grade B contour, then whatever they can do to fix *that* problem should help you, too.

Maybe an email to WVNY operations is in order...

I live in Jericho, VT and use DishNetwork to provide both a standard and high definition signal. My signal from the dish is fed through a VIP622 to my 55" hd ready tv. Last week I added an indoor OTA antenna to pick up locals in HD. The antenna is an Audiovox TV5 amplified antenna. I am able to get a signal for WCAX, WVNY and WFFF. The signal on each of these channels is between 60 and 66 on the dish digital signal meter. I do have signal dropouts at times on each of these channels even though the signal strength appears to be be very steady. Can anyone shed any light on these dropouts? In addition, does anyone know if WETK (33) is broadcasting in HD from Mt Mansfield. Also,, when is WPTZ going to start their HD broadcasts?
Thanks

I live in Jericho, VT and use DishNetwork to provide both a standard and high definition signal. My signal from the dish is fed through a VIP622 to my 55" hd ready tv. Last week I added an indoor OTA antenna to pick up locals in HD. The antenna is an Audiovox TV5 amplified antenna. I am able to get a signal for WCAX, WVNY and WFFF. The signal on each of these channels is between 60 and 66 on the dish digital signal meter. I do have signal dropouts at times on each of these channels even though the signal strength appears to be be very steady. Can anyone shed any light on these dropouts? In addition, does anyone know if WETK (33) is broadcasting in HD from Mt Mansfield. Also,, when is WPTZ going to start their HD broadcasts?
ThanksJericho is really close to the mountain. Based on proximity, I'd think you would max out the signal meter without breaking a sweat.

Here are a few things to consider:
How "deep" inside your house is the antenna? Ideally, you should have only 1 wall between your antenna and the towers.
Is the antenna pointing in the right direction? All the HDTV towers are atop Mt. Mansfield, which is roughly East of Jericho.
Are you using good cabling? If you're going farther than a few feet from your antenna to the receiver, you should be using the more-expensive RG-6, not RG-59.
How high up is the antenna? The higher the better.


Something I've done that helps a lot with debugging the antenna setup is to plug the antenna into a (non-HD) analog set and tune to channel 33, then experiment with pointing and positioning the antenna to get the best picture possible with the least amount of ghosting. After that, leave the antenna where it is and plug it into your HDTV set.

If you absolutely cannot do anything to improve the signal, then I suggest you return the Audiovox TV5 and get one of these: http://www.zenith.com/sub_prod/product_Display.asp?cat=&id=131

I got mine at CircuitCity in Williston for $25. I get 100% signal from my ViP622 on all the HD stations from my house in Essex.

BTW, the HD stations which are currently on-air are: WCAX-DT (Ch5), WVNY (Ch22), WETK (Ch33) and WFFF (Ch44).

The last hold-out is WPTZ-DT. They seem to be stuck in a rut of bad luck with their transmitter electronics, with one component failure after another.

Jericho is really close to the mountain. Based on proximity, I'd think you would max out the signal meter without breaking a sweat.

Here are a few things to consider:
How "deep" inside your house is the antenna? Ideally, you should have only 1 wall between your antenna and the towers.
Is the antenna pointing in the right direction? All the HDTV towers are atop Mt. Mansfield, which is roughly East of Jericho.
Are you using good cabling? If you're going farther than a few feet from your antenna to the receiver, you should be using the more-expensive RG-6, not RG-59.
How high up is the antenna

Thanks for your reply. A couple more points about my situation.

I am not line of sight to Mt mansfield. I have a small hill between me and the mountain.
The antenna is sitting on top of my VIP622. There is only one wall to the outer world.
I will consider trying a different indoor antenna. I can return the TV5.
I am still curious how you can go from a solid 65 stength signal to 0 signal...

Thanks again

I am still curious how you can go from a solid 65 stength signal to 0 signal...My understanding is that HD receivers are very sensitive to "multipath" signals. So, being as close to the mountain as you are, and behind a hill, it could be you are getting lots of high-energy reflections from directions other than the tower. From the looks of it, the TV5 does not appear to be very directional. If I were you, I'd look for something more directional. Also, I don't think you should need an amplifier. You should be able to get plenty of signal without one. In fact, can you try your existing antenna without the amplifier? If so, what effect does it have?

Digital broadcasts have a steep "cliff", meaning that it doesn't take much perterbation of the signal before you "fall off the edge" and go from having a perfectly acceptable signal to having an unusable one.

I live in Jericho, VT and use DishNetwork to provide both a standard and high definition signal. My signal from the dish is fed through a VIP622 to my 55" hd ready tv. Last week I added an indoor OTA antenna to pick up locals in HD. The antenna is an Audiovox TV5 amplified antenna. I am able to get a signal for WCAX, WVNY and WFFF. The signal on each of these channels is between 60 and 66 on the dish digital signal meter. I do have signal dropouts at times on each of these channels even though the signal strength appears to be be very steady. Can anyone shed any light on these dropouts? In addition, does anyone know if WETK (33) is broadcasting in HD from Mt Mansfield. Also,, when is WPTZ going to start their HD broadcasts?
Thanks
I get 55% on WVNY and also experience a little audio dropout, so your signals are only a little stronger than that. I get the other stations at 80-99% and don't have the problem. If the Zenith Silver Sensor doesn't improve things from on top of your receiver, try moving it to a window that faces the transmitters. Getting more height (attic or 2nd floor) should also help. If you have the option, a small outside antenna (DB2 or DB4 from Antennas Direct) is less noticable than your satellite dish and should bring in a much stronger signal. I mounted my DB4 on an eave with a wall mount and a 6' mast from Radio Shack with good results. Even though it is a UHF antenna, I still get Chan 13 at 55%. I am adding a small high-band VHF antenna to improve that signal.

In addition, does anyone know if WETK (33) is broadcasting in HD from Mt Mansfield.

WETK is sending SD on 33.1 and HD on 33.5. Not all programs are HD, though. Check the grid on titantv - http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/ttv.aspx?siteid=52946

I have been lurking for the past 3-4months and was wondering if there was any update as to when Adelphia/Comcast is going to get it together and broadcast all the local channels in HD? If they don't get around to it really damn soon I plan to drop them, go to verizon DSL, get an OTA antenna and HD tuner off ebay and then move to dish and save a bunch of money. Only reason I haven't is I keep hearing it's coming soon and it's easier to not do anything if it will be here in a week or so. but, it is totally pissing me off how GD long this whole HD thing has been taking in VT. I've had to watch the Patriots in the Superbowl twice over the past 3 years since I got my HDTV in crappy SD which has totally sucked (being a Patriot fan!). And for most of the Pats games for the rest of the season, they will be on Fox SD and not CBS HD. The real kicker is the only channels I watch are the HD ones with the only exception being the Patriots which I've actually taken to listening on Sirius rather than deal with the CD degraded signal and local commercials. Sorry for intruding on the whole OTA discussion... Thanks for any info. Also, anyone have a Burlington Adelphia # to call and complain?

I have a number for the local call center at my office - I can get it tomorrow and post it.

Just FYI, I was in the office today exchanging my HD DVR (the DVR functionality kept saying "Not authorized" regardless of what signals they sent it - they blamed it on a Comcast equipment changeover). I asked about local channels, and they basically said "We have no idea, it's up to Comcast, hopefully it will be soon". Doesn't inspire confidence, but I can be patient - I heard through the grapevine that the VoD options from Comcast will include a LOT more HD content than what we currently have, so hopefully that will tide us over until they get the locals. I too would give my left arm to be able to watch the Pats in HD; watching them in SD on NBC Sunday made me want to cry.

Did WCAX just drop their power? It used to be >80% for me, but now it's arround 60% .. sometimes dipping down to 55% (with a skipping picture).. ch 33 is still 100% at 32dB

Edit: It's back to 80%, it dropped down to 50% for ~15 min, then slowly came back over the hour. Is that weather related?

Hey board_jay -
That's actually exactly what I just did - quit cable cold turkey now that I'm up an running with the few OTA channels. I haven't started satellite yet though and have opted to save some $ instead. I'm not sure how I'll make by though without NESN, ESPN, and HBO. We'll see how it goes. If I can't take it I'll just start cable back up probably and request an introductory/promotional rate for as long as possible.

Hey cableguy (asking nicely) - any updates for us HD dorks out here. My Dad had a great premontion on Sunday - he said, "I bet they'll add the HD locals right when they move the branding to Comcast as a cherry on top". He could be right....

Did WCAX just drop their power? It used to be >80% for me, but now it's arround 60% .. sometimes dipping down to 55% (with a skipping picture).. ch 33 is still 100% at 32dB

Edit: It's back to 80%, it dropped down to 50% for ~15 min, then slowly came back over the hour. Is that weather related?
I'm seeing WCAX around 71% this evening when it has been at 88%. Everything else is the same.

With my DB4 UHF antenna, I was getting WVNY (13) at 55%. This evening I put up a Winegard YA-6713 small high-band VHF antenna and now I get WVNY at 88%

Hey board_jay -
That's actually exactly what I just did - quit cable cold turkey now that I'm up an running with the few OTA channels. I haven't started satellite yet though and have opted to save some $ instead. I'm not sure how I'll make by though without NESN, ESPN, and HBO. We'll see how it goes. If I can't take it I'll just start cable back up probably and request an introductory/promotional rate for as long as possible.

Hey cableguy (asking nicely) - any updates for us HD dorks out here. My Dad had a great premontion on Sunday - he said, "I bet they'll add the HD locals right when they move the branding to Comcast as a cherry on top". He could be right....

Hi Scott,

Well, I can tell you that we re-brand to Comcast Thursday the 9th.. I talked to one of the engineering team about the HD channels yesterday, and no, sadly they wont be ready Thursday as far as he knows, but I was ASSURED that it would be very soon.

As for quitting cable, shame on you! :) I know everyone thinks its expensive and a rip off, but it takes a lot of money to run a cable company! You should go to basic service with an HD box and just pay the extra $7.95 for the HD a la carte package to keep all your HD channels. You would be able to have NESNHD and both ESPNHDs that way in addition to the a la carte HDs we carry like the inHDs, HDNet and so on (not premiums of course).

On another note, Comcast VOD is going to be about 300% more than Adelphia's was (A LOT more FREE stuff), but that doesn't switch over until the 29th when we re-provision all the set tops.

Sounded too much like a cable guy in this post, sorry! But, I will be staying on top of the HD situation and I will let you all know as soon as I know anything. Sorry again for the rant..

Well, Sunday night's game was painfull in a few different ways. Not only was SD horrible ghosting crap, but that's about how well the Pats played :) Yeah, that's what I heard when I went there about a month ago to get a remote to replace one that stopped working. I keep looking how much money I give them every month and how poor a value it is for what I get. Comcast better be a hell of a lot more HD channels, VoIP bundled and less $$$ than I am paying now or I'm done with them. I won't even add the fact that every other month I am calling them about some billing problem they had or an issue with my internet dropping out... So, I am giving them 2 weeks and after that they lose.

What did they give you for a reason about your internet? If you give me your info in a PM, I will look into it for you.

In fact if any of you have any issues, feel free to PM me and I will look into it for you and help as much as I can.

Can you tell me the reason why WCAX transmit the same programs in HD and in SD at the same time?

To receive this SD signal or HD signal you need a digital tv with an ATSC tuner.

I think, all digital tv with an ATSC tuner can operate on HD signal and convert it to his native picture format, so you don’t need the SD signal who is some time horrible with many artefacts.

When you have a good reception of an NTSC signal the picture quality is often better than these SD signals, the picture is sharper and with no digital artefact.

I think, a person with a digital tv, will tune the HD signal and ignore the SD if the program is the same.

If WCAX had no SD signal, he could use all is bandwidth for his HD signal and increase the quality of his HD signal.

Hello All!

The engineering department at Vermont Public Television has responded to a query concerning OTA reception using the LC37d90u's built-in receiver.

Apparently there is a software glitch at the station that caused problems on our Sharp receivers. They are working on a solution and expect the problem to be resolved by Friday (November 10, 2006).

Thank you VPT!

gene levine

BTW - The problem manifests itself by frequent (several per minute :) ) interruptions in reception using error message 203: No Broadcast Now.

Can you tell me the reason why WCAX transmit the same programs in HD and in SD at the same time?

To receive this SD signal or HD signal you need a digital tv with an ATSC tuner.
You actually don't need a digital TV at all. My parents are using a normal 4:3 30" CRT tv, with a Samsung SIR-TS160 as an ATSC tuner. They're also far enough away from Vermont that Analog 3 has some snow.

Whenever WCAX plays a 4:3 show with black bars on the side, you basically get a full black border when you stick that on a 4:3 TV (The tuner doesn't know the difference, it's STILL a widescreen picture coming in). The option to switch over to the SD signal is perfect for that setup, and looks suprisingly good on a CRT. (With no snow compared to the analog broadcast)

I was in Brattleboro yesterday and can tell you that their cable office by the "Brattleboro Reformer" building and Hannaford Shopping Plaza (on US 5/VT 9) is now signed as Comcast. I also bought the "Burlington Free Press" and looked at their TV page. Can anybody answer these questions:

1- Is WWBI-TV channel 27 a low-power station? (I think they were UPN or PAX at one time.)
2- IS WGMU-CA (MY) channel 39 ever going to be in HD?
3- When WFFF-TV (FOX/CW) channel 44 airs the CW programming on a secondary basis at 10 PM, is it in HD?

Can you tell me the reason why WCAX transmit the same programs in HD and in SD at the same time?
Starting in March, all TVs have to be manufactured with ATSC tuners in them. A lot of those are going to be SD sets (I've seen some at Walmart), so they broadcast the SD picture for those TVs. Why would anyone buy one of those? Because you can get a 27" 4:3 that receives digital signals for less than $300.

You should go to basic service with an HD box and just pay the extra $7.95 for the HD a la carte package to keep all your HD channels. You would be able to have NESNHD and both ESPNHDs that way in addition to the a la carte HDs we carry like the inHDs, HDNet and so on (not premiums of course).

I have the basic service and pay for the hdbox and dvr service. It's about 37 bucks per month plus internet(another 43 bucks.) So I pay about 80 bucks. Right now I get 3 HD channels, CBS, PBS and NESN.

If I pay an extra 8 bucks I can get all the extra HD channels?(minus premiums) That would be great and probally worth the extra 8 bucks.

I'd try and get them OTA but I have a big hill behind my house so I don't think I'll be able to get them. So right now I'm stuck with cable.

Starting in March, all TVs have to be manufactured with ATSC tuners in them. A lot of those are going to be SD sets (I've seen some at Walmart), so they broadcast the SD picture for those TVs. Why would anyone buy one of those? Because you can get a 27" 4:3 that receives digital signals for less than $300.

These TVs will ALL have zoom features.

These TVs will ALL have zoom features.
Please explain. :)

I have the basic service and pay for the hdbox and dvr service. It's about 37 bucks per month plus internet(another 43 bucks.) So I pay about 80 bucks. Right now I get 3 HD channels, CBS, PBS and NESN.

If I pay an extra 8 bucks I can get all the extra HD channels?(minus premiums) That would be great and probally worth the extra 8 bucks.

I'd try and get them OTA but I have a big hill behind my house so I don't think I'll be able to get them. So right now I'm stuck with cable.

jbilodeau,

Yes you can, just call and tell the CAE that you want the HD a la carte package.

board_jay,

And when I say re-provision the set tops, that DOES NOT mean you need to go in to the office and trade them in. We will do it all from our end, so no worries there. Also, they may have said soon for almost three years with the HD channels, but you need to understand, for the last three years Adelphia was in bankruptcy and had virtually no money to spend on non-critical business ventures. The studios werent prepared to give us an HD feed either, so its not all Adelphia's fault. On a good note, Comcast has DEEP pockets and likes to be at the forefront of anything to do with cable, so I can tell you that things will be much different now.

If you want me to look into your modem, just let me know. It sounds like a real pain in the ass, thats why I am offering. If not, oh well, I am just trying to help.

Please explain. :)

What foxfan means is that all (new) TVs that are 4:3 are required to be able to display a 16:9 broadcast - either letterbox it or crop it, your choice - so there's no point in sending an SD broadcast on subchannel 1 and an HD broadcast on subchannel 2 if it's the same show on both. TVs and set-top tuners have to have a method of converting it to make it fit whatever format your screen is.

This doesn't apply to (for example) PBS, they're sending different content on 33.1 and 33.5 - but if other channels are sending the same thing twice, they ought to save bandwidth and just send one fantastic HD broadcast.

Please explain. :)I suspect what foxfan means is that 4:3 TV's with ATSC tuner will have a feature that allows you to crop a 16:9 picture down to a 4:3 aspect ratio. On DVD players, this feature is called "zoom". Therefore, it seems like a waste of bandwidth to provide both 16:9 and 4:3 presentations of the same programming when the 16:9 -> 4:3 crop can be done at the receiving end.

I suspect what foxfan means is that 4:3 TV's with ATSC tuner will have a feature that allows you to crop a 16:9 picture down to a 4:3 aspect ratio. On DVD players, this feature is called "zoom". Therefore, it seems like a waste of bandwidth to provide both 16:9 and 4:3 presentations of the same programming when the 16:9 -> 4:3 crop can be done at the receiving end.
Thanks for the explanation, guys. I guess the question is whether not broadcasting the SD version actually gives back bandwidth that can be used to better the HD broadcast. Could be that each sub-channel has its own bandwidth that cannot be combined with other sub-channels.

I guess the question is whether not broadcasting the SD version actually gives back bandwidth that can be used to better the HD broadcast. Could be that each sub-channel has its own bandwidth that cannot be combined with other sub-channels.

You get about 18 mbps per NTSC channel, I believe, and every SD channel takes away about 3 mbps from the full HD potential. In short, you can do one full-quality HD broadcast, or one slightly-less-good HD (15 mbps) + one SD (3mbps), and so forth up to six SD + no HD.

That's why there is some concern about VPT, because they keep saying they're going to do 5 channels - PBS, PBS Kids, two others, and then PBS HD - but they'll have to cut down the HD bandwidth so much that it will probably look lousy.

You may want to skim the hdtvprimer pages - specifically, search this page for "bandwidth":

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html

The rest of the hdtvprimer pages are worth a glance to get a head start on some of your questions. A lot of it is way over my head - things get covered like exactly how multipath interference can be canceled out by having two antennas - but it's nice to get a feel for the basics.

I don't know if it's going to happen today or not, but they are testing at WPTZ.
Very strong signal in Montreal, even if we can't lock to it yet. This is no VNY sighal.
That's for sure.!!!!

That's why there is some concern about VPT, because they keep saying they're going to do 5 channels - PBS, PBS Kids, two others, and then PBS HD - but they'll have to cut down the HD bandwidth so much that it will probably look lousy.As it is, VPT-1, which is a simulcast of their NTSC Ch33 broadcast, looks much worse than the SD Ch33 feed I get from DishNetwork or with an NTSC OTA tuner.

I'm a little frustrated with VPT. The point of HD was to make the "regular" programming look better. What they've done is made the "regular" programming no different (worse, IMHO), and then added a bunch of "new" programming which is HD.

Then again, if you tune to VPT-HD, you know that whatever is on will be in HD. You can't say the same for the other networks.

Just ran a scan here in Williston...don't see PTZ (ch 14) yet. I also just noticed that PBS 33-5 isn't up right now either.

Thought I'd have a little fun. I took the WVNY field strength plot from an earlier post to this thread and overlayed it on top of a map from mapquest. Looks like they're not sending quite enough power towards Montreal. And the Northeast Kingdom of VT is S.O.L.

By the way. This is NOT a coverage map. It's a field strength plot normalized to a scale of 0 to 1 which is superimposed over a map which is just big enough to include Montreal and Stowe at the center.

For instance, if you follow the "spokes" on either side of Montreal down to the red line, you see that they're directing ~1/2 as much power in that direction as they are toward Burlington. Poor Newport is only getting ~1/8 as much.

[This is my first attempt at an attachment. Crossing my fingers that it's gonna work.]

Good Job Tom, it looks like folks in one third of the map are out of luck.

90% in Montreal
5.1 WPTZ-DT
5.2 Weather Plus

I'm getting PTZ! I'm getting a very low signal, and it's a pixelated mess, but I'm getting it. I direct tuned to 14 but was "remapped" to 5 (like with VNY 13 to 22)...

I'll try to change directions of and antenna and see if that helps.

now content is gone again - signal is still there though and is still low.

Nice...getting a strong and steady signal now from PTZ.

I also noticed that PBS VPT 33-5 is still down...

now content is gone again - signal is still there though and is still low.

Both channels back up Now to fix the antenna from the last wind storm, signal is 15 points lower then cax might be a Temp Fix until weather is better on the Mt.

(from the WX Office)
ON MOUNT MANSFIELD...YESTERDAYS HIGH TEMPERATURE WAS 40 DEGREES AND THE LOW
WAS 33 DEGREES. THERE WAS A TRACE OF RAINFALL AND A TRACE OF SNOWFALL. AT
THE STAKE 17 INCHES OF SNOW REMAINS.

Wonderfull working conditions! :p

WPTZ ON THE AIR !!!!

Fantastic!!

I am new to the OTA antenna thing and am in the process of learning what I need to get the Burlington Locals, Antenna ETC.

I went to Antenna Web and typed in my address and looks Like I am 17 Miles from the Mansfield Trans.

My Question is I am off 104 North of 104a and looks Like Some hills may be in the way of Mansfield. I was wondering how this is going to effect my getting a signal and was wondering if anybody else in this area can help me with your experiances.

I want to be sure it will work before I buy antenna.

Also any suggestions on antenna's to use from here.

Thanks

I'm not getting Fox in Essex. Anyone else? Nice to see the 2 PTZ channels up!

getting wptz in shoreham but it is not a great pic. the signal on my hr10-250 is bouncing around from 60 to 80. wptz is important for sunday night football

I am now getting VPT-HD on 33-1 instead of 32-7 like I was yesterday. The neat thing is that my TV automatically picked up both the new WPTZ signals and the new VPT-HD signal.

The wait is over!

All 5 major U.S. networks, free, in HD, with no sim-subs!

TAKE THAT, CRTC! :D

(Now if only WVNY would do something about their crappy signal and WPTZ would put "Montreal" in the Weather Plus service (since it has a higher population than all of the currently mentioned cities combined), I'll be happy. :rolleyes:

HEY! WCAX just interrupted Jericho for their local ads! :mad:

OK. It's back now, but they f***ed up my recording! :mad:

Thanks everyone for such great information. I live in Waterbury Village with Blush Hill between Mt. Mansfield and me and I was able to get an antenna up and working. WFFF seems to be not coming in now. It doesn't say no signal just no video or audio. My TV does not have any strength meter on it (VIZIO). Is anyone else having problems? I am getting all the other stations clearly and I was getting WFFF yesterday.

Thanks everyone for such great information. I live in Waterbury Village with Blush Hill between Mt. Mansfield and me and I was able to get an antenna up and working. WFFF seems to be not coming in now. It doesn't say no signal just no video or audio. My TV does not have any strength meter on it (VIZIO). Is anyone else having problems? I am getting all the other stations clearly and I was getting WFFF yesterday.
They moved. Run your channel scan and you should pick up the new location.

I was flipping through the channels tonight between 9:00 and 10:00 and noticed that VPT-2, -3, and -4 were no longer blank. They were all showing variants of the same show that was on VPT-1 and VPT-5.

What a waste of bandwidth!!!

Can someone with a receiver that tells you the bitrate reply with a run-down of the bitrate allocation across the 5 sub-channels?

I'm pretty sure that it's just a mistake and that it's actually the same channel being mapped at more than one "location".

Well, my wife saw me about to try and hook up an old pair of rabbit ears to the TV, and taking pity on me, she got out one of my Birthday presents a day early - she had gone and gotten me a Philips indoor amplified antenna (MANT510).

So I hooked it up to the UHF/VHF input on my TV, looked up the direction on Antennaweb, took my best guess on the bearings (no compass in the house, but I looked at the picture Antennaweb drew for me), and started a digital scan...

Nothing. I turned the antenna a bit, and started another scan. Nothing. And then once more, turned it another 20 degrees or so. Eventually, I had it facing almost opposite of where it should be, and WCAX and WETK were found - 1 HD station of each, and 1 digital SD station of each. No other stations. Bummer.

I have since been playing around with the antenna constantly, and I absolutely cannot find a signal. I have played with the built-in amp, setting it from off to full power, and it does no good - I can, at best, get CBS and PBS, but nothing else. I wasn't planning on being able to get WVNY with it, but I was assuming I could at least get WPTZ and WFFF.

Anyone have any suggestions? Should I return it for another antenna? I hate to hurt my wife's feelings, but I'd rather have an antenna that works if this one isn't going to do the job.

Thanks,
Will

That's what I hate with TVs and tuners that don't allow users to manually add a channel. I hate doing a scan as there is no way of adjusting the antenna until the channel is found in that situation.

Also, anyone know why DirecTV still doesn't have the digital listings for the Burlington local stations? My HTL-HDs don't pick up PSIP data and gets the listings from the dish (no subscription required with D* unlike E*). Currently only WCFE has listings.

Also, anyone know why DirecTV still doesn't have the digital listings for the Burlington local stations? My HTL-HDs don't pick up PSIP data and gets the listings from the dish (no subscription required with D* unlike E*). Currently only WCFE has listings.I didn't have any EPG data at first from DishNetwork, either. I posted as much to a forum on DBSTalk, and someone there advised me to send Dish an email explaining the situation. Within a couple of days of sending them a note, the data appeared in the EPG. Seems to me they're not too clued into when the locals go HD, so they don't bother to add the EPG data until someone lets them know it's missing.

I suspect DirecTV operates the same way.

It looks like WPTZ forgot to "flip the switch" tonight. Leno is in SD. :(

Is it the same down on WNNE? Also, I've been noticing lip sync issues and there is no PSIP guide data being sent.

They moved. Run your channel scan and you should pick up the new location.


Well it looks like I don't get it anymore. I had problems with the signal before so I guess back on the roof I go to try to get the signal again. Does anyone know if WFFF is at full power?

It looks like WPTZ forgot to "flip the switch" tonight. Leno is in SD. :(

I hope it doesnt happen tonight because Borat is on Leno and you know what happens to him if he fails... : "If it not success, I will be execute" ;) :p :D

Last week, i ask you guys in the Montreal region that i was going to send your letters to the station friday. Well, right now i have a total of 5 letters!!! It won't make a big impression at all with that.

Are you getting the station now?

I'll still send what i have, but it would be better if we can get more .........

WPTZ has not updated their website. Wonder if they are waiting for their new news set to be completed?

Well it looks like I don't get it anymore. I had problems with the signal before so I guess back on the roof I go to try to get the signal again. Does anyone know if WFFF is at full power?If they moved, they couldn't have moved far. I can't imagine having to repoint the antenna to get them back if you're getting the other stations OK.

WPTZ has not updated their website. Wonder if they are waiting for their new news set to be completed?

Will it be in HD? :D
...or at least in 16:9 widescreen? :rolleyes:

I'm surprised that so far, I've only gotten 2 responses to my suggestion from this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8831518&&#post8831518, and only 1 of them had the information.

To whet your appetites, I've attached a screen shot from Google Earth showing that by simply clicking on a push-pin, you get some really useful reception information.

This would take a lot of guess-work out of choosing an antenna for people who are new to the idea of OTA reception.

But the data only gets in there if I put it there, and I can only put it there if people PM it to me. So....

They moved. Run your channel scan and you should pick up the new location.

I take it you mean the transmitter frequency and not the antenna? They were 43, any idea what they are now?

I take it you mean the transmitter frequency and not the antenna? They were 43, any idea what they are now?
Sorry, I meant VPT-HD has moved from 32 to 33, not FOX which is still 43

VPT is still physically on 32. It has just been re-mapped to 33 because you have done another scan.

must say i am dissapointed with wptz and wfff and the reception i am getting. must say pbs and cbs are abc are much better. the nbc and fox stations sometimes do not even come in. oh well i guess we cant have everything

must say i am dissapointed with wptz and wfff and the reception i am getting. must say pbs and cbs are abc are much better. the nbc and fox stations sometimes do not even come in. oh well i guess we cant have everything


I put foil on the top of my rabbit ears after fighting for a week now. No problem getting anything.

I put foil on the top of my rabbit ears after fighting for a week now. No problem getting anything.Dude. This one needs a picture to go along with it. Care to post one?

Dude. This one needs a picture to go along with it. Care to post one?


Maybe when I get home. Feels just like the 80's again. Rabbit ears with balls of tin foil on them....WE HAVE COME SO FAR!!!

I just now stumbled on this article...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/01/30/ota-hd-demystified/

It hits all the main topics and is short and sweet. I also like the added point of not only determining which station you can receive, but filtering that list based on which ones you'd actually watch.

The last sentence of the last paragraph is also very well-put...

But remember the amplifier is used to overcome attenuation from passive devices and the length of the cable, not antenna problems.

I just now stumbled on this article...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/01/30/ota-hd-demystified/

It hits all the main topics and is short and sweet. I also like the added point of not only determing which station you can receiver, but filtering that list based on which ones you'd actually watch.

The last sentence of the last paragraph is also very well-put...

Nice article Tom - thanks.

I just tried to add the HD a'la cart package to my adelphia/comcast service but was not able to. Here is what happened,

First I called yesterday and asked to add it and the guy I had said no problem but in order for them to add or change your service they needed to switch me over to the Comcast billing. So I said ok. Then the guy said I was all set. A few hours later I called back to say it has not been added yet. So now the guy I talked to said in order to get the HD channels(besides the broascast ones, CAX,VPT,NESN) I needed to get the standard package(adelphia classic...). But this has a price tag of 52 bucks. 35 more than what I'm paying.

I ended up calling them 5 times with everyone telling me different things. Finally I got somone who understood what I wanted and to summarize Comcast will not allow the HD a'la cart deal. You need the Standard package to get them all.

I also was told all adelphia subscribers will be "grandfathered" with their currect plans. So if you subscribe to the HD a'la cart deal, do not change your plan(move to comcast billing) or you will lose your deal on HD channels.

What a crock.

I just tried to add the HD a'la cart package to my adelphia/comcast service but was not able to. Here is what happened,

First I called yesterday and asked to add it and the guy I had said no problem but in order for them to add or change your service they needed to switch me over to the Comcast billing. So I said ok. Then the guy said I was all set. A few hours later I called back to say it has not been added yet. So now the guy I talked to said in order to get the HD channels(besides the broascast ones, CAX,VPT,NESN) I needed to get the standard package(adelphia classic...). But this has a price tag of 52 bucks. 35 more than what I'm paying.

I ended up calling them 5 times with everyone telling me different things. Finally I got somone who understood what I wanted and to summarize Comcast will not allow the HD a'la cart deal. You need the Standard package to get them all.

I also was told all adelphia subscribers will be "grandfathered" with their currect plans. So if you subscribe to the HD a'la cart deal, do not change your plan(move to comcast billing) or you will lose your deal on HD channels.

What a crock.

I will see what I can do because I believe the cable company cant deny you anything after you have purchased the basic cable package.

So everyone knows, you are all on Comcast billing now. Everyone got switched on monday, whom ever you talked to is full of sh*t. I will see what I can do for you. Just PM me with your phone number, name on the account and address and I will get this straightened out for you.

JBil,

Actually, the deal is even sweeter with Comcast packaging.. PM me and I will call you to set it all up, I should be able to do it for you right over the phone. I think you will be happy with what Comcast will offer..

Call a full service LOCAL satellite dealer, get set up with the DishBronze package @ $49.99/mo, receive 30 HD & 60+ SD channels, get said package for only $29.99 a month for 10 months and 3 free months of the movie pack of your choice, including it's HD feed, use your rabbit ears with tin foil balls or amplified coat hangers to receive the networks at no extra charge in full bandwth HD. Upgrade to DishSilver to add NESN-HD when it becomes available(it's being broadcast, it's just not being made available to paying customers yet :confused: ). Enjoy.:)

Call a full service LOCAL satellite dealer, get set up with the DishBronze package @ $49.99/mo, receive 30 HD & 60+ SD channels, get said package for only $29.99 a month for 10 months and 3 free months of the movie pack of your choice, including it's HD feed, use your rabbit ears with tin foil balls or amplified coat hangers to receive the networks at no extra charge in full bandwth HD. Upgrade to DishSilver to add NESN-HD when it becomes available(it's being broadcast, it's just not being made available to paying customers yet :confused: ). Enjoy.:)

There ya go JBil.. They are more compressed than we are, and don't have VOD, but its cheap and you would get more channels.

I love you cable guys who tow the party line on VOD, despite it being totally wrong. Funny how one of my installers who worked for Adelphia in Burlington and Utah was such a loyal cable bullsh*ter, especially when it came to preceived rainfade. He had his own Dish for 2 1/2 years then one night he called in a panic because it went out for about 3 minutes in a storm. "What happened? Did your's go out? Why?" "Don't you remember buddy, rainfade, when you were the cable guy you said they went out all the time, remember?" He had the thing 2 1/2 years before he ever saw what he had been led to believe was one of the major evils of satellite tv.

Of course if satellite is so bad, why does cable use it for their source for most channels? I guess it must be that the good dish is one that's connected to your house through miles and miles of cable and passed through innumerable taps and splitters? Eh? :D

Must have been the weather. I am getting WFFF now but not clearly. I think I have to work on repositioning since when I was working on it before the signal would cut out every time I walked in front of the antenna. That did not happen with the other channels. I might even need a pre-amp.

I love you cable guys who tow the party line on VOD, despite it being totally wrong. Funny how one of my installers who worked for Adelphia in Burlington and Utah was such a loyal cable bullsh*ter, especially when it came to preceived rainfade. He had his own Dish for 2 1/2 years then one night he called in a panic because it went out for about 3 minutes in a storm. "What happened? Did your's go out? Why?" "Don't you remember buddy, rainfade, when you were the cable guy you said they went out all the time, remember?" He had the thing 2 1/2 years before he ever saw what he had been led to believe was one of the major evils of satellite tv.

Of course if satellite is so bad, why does cable use it for their source for most channels? I guess it must be that the good dish is one that's connected to your house through miles and miles of cable and passed through innumerable taps and splitters? Eh? :D

I have no problem with the Dish, and the rainfade problem is slowly going away, but no matter what you say, your compression is terrible. Look at our digital locals compared to yours and you will see what I mean.

You cant deny we have more interactive services including VOD and the dish internet is WAY over priced and slow as hell. "I love you cable guys who tow the party line on VOD, despite it being totally wrong.." Well, whats so wrong about it? You say its wrong with no supporting statements and rant about rainfade.. That doesn't prove a lot.

About using satellite for cable.. I am not saying that the technology is bad, I am saying the way the dish companies utilize it is bad. Anyone with a brain knows that using satellite is a more cost effective way to get signals from one place to many simultaneously so I am not sure why you think that was a dig on cable.

I wont even go into the kind of crap I have seen all over houses to which you refer to as a professional install.. Sad really.

If anyone is a bullshi**er, its the sat companies trying to make people believe you provide a superior service to cable. You want to continue this argument, PM me, I dont want to flood the forum with this crap.

I love you cable guys who tow the party line on VOD, despite it being totally wrong. Funny how one of my installers who worked for Adelphia in Burlington and Utah was such a loyal cable bullsh*ter, especially when it came to preceived rainfade. He had his own Dish for 2 1/2 years then one night he called in a panic because it went out for about 3 minutes in a storm. "What happened? Did your's go out? Why?" "Don't you remember buddy, rainfade, when you were the cable guy you said they went out all the time, remember?" He had the thing 2 1/2 years before he ever saw what he had been led to believe was one of the major evils of satellite tv.

Of course if satellite is so bad, why does cable use it for their source for most channels? I guess it must be that the good dish is one that's connected to your house through miles and miles of cable and passed through innumerable taps and splitters? Eh? :D

In my experience, service from Satellite providers is absolutely atrocious. I have spent more wasted vacation days sitting around waiting for installers who never show than I want to think about. And the sat companies refuse to do anything about it, because the installers are local contractors. When I moved to my current home, I scheduled Dish to transfer service - and they didn't show, 3 times in a row. This is after similar hijinks took place at the old residence for the initial install. I finally got myself transferred through 4 or 5 different layers of phone support, management and call centers until I got their corporate office, where I bullied them into letting me cancel my service without paying their ridiculous $200 (or whatever it is) "early cancellation fee".

I called Adelphia (this was a few years ago), and haven't looked back. They were a bit constrained on phone support during bankruptcy, but any time I have needed something (new box, new wallport run, HD box and service set up) they have shown up on time, and done a good job. I know that people from both sides of the aisle have similar horror stories, but in my experience, I would choose cable over D* any day of the week.

OK, Cableguy has informed me the hd a'la cart deal will be back when they reprovision at the end of the month, and it will even be cheaper!

I for one looked at satellite but as I work from home, I need super fast internet, and cable kills dsl and sat. in that department.

I also like VOD and I hear comcast will have upwards of 100 hours of HD content and a few more HD channels.

must say i am dissapointed with wptz and wfff and the reception i am getting. must say pbs and cbs are abc are much better. the nbc and fox stations sometimes do not even come in. oh well i guess we cant have everything

WPTZ is very weak here in West Central NH. I get WCAX 90%, WETK 100%, WFFF 75%, and WVNY 80%. WPTZ is there, but registers 0% most of the time. Every now and then it pops up to 30%, 40% or 60%. Very rarely the picture will lock for a couple of seconds. Oddly, my tuner downloads the EPG info OK.

A friend who is couple of miles east of me gets WPTZ at 75%. He said the test signal was 100%. He's about 500 ft higher than me, and has better antennas/pre-amps.

I figure either WPTZ is still running relatively low power, or they've optimized their pattern towards Plattsburg and we're in a null. The latter would make sense, as we have access to the WNNE NBC HD signal off Mt. Ascutney (though it requires that we rotate the antenna.)

Does anyone know WPTZ's current power level and/or antenna pattern?

DG

Call a full service LOCAL satellite dealer,
This doesn't mean calling 1-800-Dish or DirecTv, it doesn't mean signing up online, it doesn't mean giving all your personal info to a telemarketer. All of them will swear to their dying breath they are local. Of course they are lying. I fully agree with all the bad things and a ton more you guys say you've experienced, but I'll also bet you called 1-800 or got telemarketed or.......

If those "local contracters", (from Williston?) had a clue what they were doing, they'd have their own business(we get anywhere from $370 to $700 depending on what configuration is requested), they get in the range of $25-$60 for a complete install. Not that you guys care or should, just a little behind the scenes info.

So who's going to do a better job? A $40 hack sent by 1-800, who you'll in all likelihood never see ever again that has to slam in 10 a day to survive or a full service LOCAL satellite dealer who's a longtime business owner in the community who supports the local economy and charities, and you'll probably see in church or at the store or at your kids ball games?

VOD dodge? All 500 series and beyond by Dish have been software upgraded to include VOD.

HSI, I tell people all the time if you can get a cable modem, take it, but we also have a ton of people who get HSI from cable and video from Dish, nothing wrong with that, the price saving for the satellite video more than make up for the slight bump in the HSI cost. Almost all of our customers have everything on credit card auto pay, so a single bill comes in for everything in the house, not just HSI and video.

Back on topic, I just hooked up a Voom box on my bedroom HD ready tv and all Mt. mansfield channels are coming in 95+. What happened to 5.2, NBC Weather Plus?

VOD dodge? All 500 series and beyond by Dish have been software upgraded to include VOD.


How many hours of VOD content do you currently carry? How much extra equipment do you need to purchase/rent to provide the return path back to the content provider? All the VOD hardware/software may be on your boxes, but customers don't care of its capable, they care if it works or not.

You still havent said why VOD is bad.. I am curious as to why you said that. I am so sick of the Dish vs. Cable argument to be honest. There are good points on both sides, so I dont want you to think I am bashing you personally. No hard feelings AntennaMan?

I didn't know I said VOD was bad. If I did it was because of bad typing, but I don't think I did.

As an aside, PM me if you pickup any dishes and want a few bucks for them instead of landfilling them. You're not the cable company and I'm not Dish or Direct, it's all a "flip" game now, maybe us little guys can help each other make a few bucks. Heck if you landfill them, they still come up our way anyhow. ;)

I'm going to send the letters this afternoon. Keep them comming...




Last week, i ask you guys in the Montreal region that i was going to send your letters to the station friday. Well, right now i have a total of 5 letters!!! It won't make a big impression at all with that.

Are you getting the station now?

I'll still send what i have, but it would be better if we can get more .........

If those "local contracters", (from Williston?) had a clue what they were doing, they'd have their own business(we get anywhere from $370 to $700 depending on what configuration is requested), they get in the range of $25-$60 for a complete install. Not that you guys care or should, just a little behind the scenes info.

So who's going to do a better job? A $40 hack sent by 1-800, who you'll in all likelihood never see ever again that has to slam in 10 a day to survive or a full service LOCAL satellite dealer who's a longtime business owner in the community who supports the local economy and charities, and you'll probably see in church or at the store or at your kids ball games?

Just wondering if you're referring to Alvin or John from the "Williston" office, I've had them 3 times down here in Bradford and they've done a fine job. I was like the 2nd Dish HD install they'd ever done (about 2 1/2 years ago) and Alvin admitted it and still did a good job. You are right about how Dish chisels their installers though.

I have no problem with the Dish, and the rainfade problem is slowly going away, but no matter what you say, your compression is terrible. Look at our digital locals compared to yours and you will see what I mean.


Do you know or can you find out if there's any chance Adelphia / Comcast will extend their coverage into the Bradford, Vt area at all? I believe they come out of East Barre along Rt-25 for a ways but not as far as Bradford. I think they're also just across the river in NH.

I currently have Dish's Everything package and Charter Cable's 5meg HS internet + basic cable. Apparently there is no way I'm going to get the Burlington digital channels OTA and Charter says "they have no plans for doing HD", so unless some other cable company comes into this area, we're out of luck for the HD networks.

Got this frow WPTZ this am .

Must be they don't know they have a problem


We are transmitting in HD (but at low power). There are still a LOT of
programs that are produced in SD. It will take a few years for all of them
to convers. Check out prime time. Alsmoe ALL NBC shows are produced in HD
now.

Joe Krone
Operationa Manager

Got this frow WPTZ this am .

Must be they don't know they have a problemHmmm.... I sent them a message via their "Feedback 5" web page last night explaining that I tuned into a couple of shows which claimed to be broadcast in HD, but they were coming through in SD. I hope their answer is a little better than the above.

BTW - Does anyone on this board have an email address for anyone in engineering at WPTZ? Their feedback webpage lets you choose a department but, naturally, engineering is not in the list.

Edit: I just tried emailing engineering@wptz.com and engineering@thechamplainchannel.com. Maybe I'll get lucky.

I had sent a query to the programming address on the WPTZ website, mentioning that it was really an engineering question, and Joe Krone the Operations manager replied.

TVl

I noticed last night that both WPTZ and WVNY had the issue with programs in SD when it should have been HD. CAX looked fine tho.

They could have also aired Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune in HD but they're too cheap to get HD recorders to time-shift syndicated programming.

Also, anyone notice that there's something wrong the the picture size? The SD closed captioning code is visible at the top of the picture...

I had sent a query to the programming address on the WPTZ website, mentioning that it was really an engineering question, and Joe Krone the Operations manager replied.

TVlAnd his answer was???

[By the way, I assume we're all talking about the same issue - the fact that NBC's HD programming is coming through in SD - right? Also, I'm seeing a white flickering line at the top of my screen (it looks to me like the closed captioning data on scan line 21).]

I noticed last night that both WPTZ and WVNY had the issue with programs in SD when it should have been HD. CAX looked fine tho.

They must be short on Master Control Operators since they obviously forget to "flip the switch". Those of you in Plattsburgh (WPTZ) or Colchester (WVNY) should apply. :p

At least we'll never have that issue with Fox since their HD splicer system is automated.

And his answer was???

[By the way, I assume we're all talking about the same issue - the fact that NBC's HD programming is coming through in SD - right? Also, I'm seeing a white flickering line at the top of my screen (it looks to me like the closed captioning data on scan line 21).]

No, I was asking about plans post-2009 for replacing WPTZ's analog coverage that will be lost west of Malone NY. He was understandably preoccuppied with the Mt Mansfield work :-)

Only CBC-HD and PBS-HD are available here in Ottawa. OMNI-1 and OMNI-2 (Rogers multi-cultural channels) are probably coming soon. Some people can get the Watertown stations (CBS-HD/FOX-SD and ABC-HD/CW-SD). There is no NBC analog or digital OTA in the North Country between Watertown and Potsdam. (and in two year's time, between Watertown and Malone). No chance for Mt Mansfield digital stations here, even via tropo skip, since 14, 32, and 43 are all analog stations here transmiting from a tower directly between me and Mount Mansfield. 22 is digital from Camp Fortune. 53 might be possible for a couple of years.
Ottawans gave up on OTA years ago when cable started. In the seventies, the cable companies brought in WPTZ via microwave from a remote headend near Ingleside on the St Lawrence River west of Massena. After a couple of decades of Rochester stations via microwave, we now get Detroit via fiber.


TVl

It would be nice if new full power stations would be set-up near Norwood, NY. That way viewers in Ottawa would be able to get them all the networks. Either that or have the new stations go up on Lyon Mountain (WCFE reaches Ottawa) with directional antennas pointing west only.

WPTZ is very weak here in West Central NH. I get WCAX 90%, WETK 100%, WFFF 75%, and WVNY 80%. WPTZ is there, but registers 0% most of the time. Every now and then it pops up to 30%, 40% or 60%. Very rarely the picture will lock for a couple of seconds. Oddly, my tuner downloads the EPG info OK.

A friend who is couple of miles east of me gets WPTZ at 75%. He said the test signal was 100%. He's about 500 ft higher than me, and has better antennas/pre-amps.

I figure either WPTZ is still running relatively low power, or they've optimized their pattern towards Plattsburg and we're in a null. The latter would make sense, as we have access to the WNNE NBC HD signal off Mt. Ascutney (though it requires that we rotate the antenna.)

Does anyone know WPTZ's current power level and/or antenna pattern?

DG

Here's what I got from WPTZ's engineer yesterday when I inquired:

"Yup...got it on the air about 4PM yesterday. The transmitter is still in
the test mode running about 1,000 watts. They are stepping that up to the
28,000 watts we are licensed for VERY slowly. If you dont see it, dont give
up as an increase on 28 times will really streatch out the signals reach.
So far Montreal, Burlington and Willsboro NY all report a very solid signal
even at the lower power lever!"

And his answer was???

[By the way, I assume we're all talking about the same issue - the fact that NBC's HD programming is coming through in SD - right? Also, I'm seeing a white flickering line at the top of my screen (it looks to me like the closed captioning data on scan line 21).]

I can't lock WPTZ long enough to be sure, but it looks like they're transmitting SD source material in HD. In other words, what they're pulling off the NBC satellite feed is SD material in 4x3 format, and they're retransmitting it at the bitrate and resolution of HD. You see this on all the HD channels when they retransmit 4x3 SD material. If you have a 4x3 set capable of HD (which I do), you see a smaller 4x3 box within the screen dimensions. Basically, they're line doubling the SD material so it appears to have similar resolution to true 16x9 HD material, albeit much smaller than its original format.

My point is that the operations people probably think they're transmitting in HD because they are, in fact, transmitting in HD! The problem is with their receiver. It's not clear whether WPTZ only has an SD receiver, or they haven't configured their HD receiver properly.

NBC has tons of satellite distribution feeds. I can receive the normal SD feeds through my 10' C-band/Ku-band dish using an MPEG format receiver. They also have feeds in 4x3 format using 4:2:2 color information, which is a high-density bitstream producing beautiful resolution and colors. I can get those feeds using special cards and software in my PC. But I can't receive the HD feeds because they're transmitted using 8PSK format, which is a licensed format that's very expensive and only available in commercial satellite receivers. If WPTZ doesn't have an 8PSK receiver, then they can't get the NBC HD network feed.

I'd be surprised if WPTZ didn't have the right equipment because their sister station, WNNE, is currently transmitting NBC HD source material from Mt. Ascutney. I would think the same engineering staff services both stations and they would know all this, but maybe not. But there may be hope -- As I recall, WNNE went through a period of transmitting SD material in HD before they "flipped the switch". Even now they sometimes accidentally flip to SD for a while (like WFFF did in the 3rd quarter of the NFL game on Sunday.)

As for the white line at the top of the picture, I see that on all the 4x3 material broadcast by WNNE. It doesn't show up in the 16x9 material. It's very annoying.
I'm virtually certain this anomaly originates with the NBC feed. I see it on the 4x3 satellite feeds, too. The receiver in my PC shows it, while the stand-alone MPEG receiver does not. I think it's a formatting issue in which the receiver needs to suppress the top scan line. My PC software isn't programmed to do that, but my stand-alone receiver is. Evidently, the SD receivers being used by WNNE and WPTZ aren't programmed to deal with it.

Let's hope WPTZ gets all this figured out soon. I sure hope they get to high power soon, because I can't lock them now!

DG

Well, my experience so far is that WCAX really has their act together WRT HD programming compared to everyone else. I've watched NUMB3RS on WCAX two weeks in a row now, and they do a very clean switch between the HD network feed, SD commercials, and HD local news inserts. My only complaint, and this is probably my receiver and not them, is that when they come back from a commercial in 4:3 SD, and it switches to 16:9 HD, I get a short dropout of the audio 1-2 seconds after the switchover.

The CC line at the top WPTZ's video signal isn't an NBC issue, since it shows up on syndicated programming as well.

However, I'm happy that I'm getting such a stable signal with WPTZ broadcasting at only 1kw! Too bad WVNY isn't as strong...

My only complaint, and this is probably my receiver and not them, is that when they come back from a commercial in 4:3 SD, and it switches to 16:9 HD, I get a short dropout of the audio 1-2 seconds after the switchover.

I get the same thing, it's most likely from the change in audio format, the sd stuff is in DD 2.0 and the HD stuff is in DD 3/2.1 (or 2/3.1). So for me I get a one to 2 second drop while my pre/pro is changing formats. I have an outlaw 950 pre/pro and this happens with any change in the audio stream,(I use digital coax). I used to have a onkyo that was very fast with changing audio streams, If I still had it I bet I would hardly notice a change.

On this subject, I wish programs kept from any dialogue for 3-4 seconds so people with this issue don't miss any important audio.

They would probally need expensive equipment to allow them to keep the DD 3/2.1 signal all the time and be able to send the source material in the appropriate channels. So people will never get this dropout.

At least that's what my problem is, maybe yours is the same.

I don't know anyone had notice or even care since Fox has been on air for a while now and no one has said anything, but I think WFFF also has the same problem with their CW programing at night, which is suppose to be in HD, but is broadcast in SD instead.

It would be nice if new full power stations would be set-up near Norwood, NY. That way viewers in Ottawa would be able to get them all the networks. Either that or have the new stations go up on Lyon Mountain (WCFE reaches Ottawa) with directional antennas pointing west only.

Personally, I don't think it will ever happen.
Three points:
- Mount Mansfield Grade B contours / 41 dBu contours come close to or include parts of the Montreal Metropolitan area. The Grade B Contour for WNPI-TV with 661 kW ERP barely crosses the border. Height and grandfathered power restrictions favour Burlington market access to Montreal over North Country access to Ottawa
- Burlington/Plattsburgh market stations' access to Montreal cable is grandfathered
- Ottawa has 14 local OTA channels, 10 of them in English. Most American shows including Letterman, Tonight Show, etc are available locally. This is not the same as Montreal.

What you may not know is that one reason the CRTC granted the consortium of Ottawa/Hull cable companies permission to bring in Rochester Network affiliates via microwave from a remote headend in Deseronto was that WWNY-TV Watertown had opened a sales office on Sparks Street, and was planning a repeater in Massena. WWNY was considered 'greedy', and consequently lost access to Ottawa cable altogether. (Not having a reliable ABC signal at the time was also a factor, and NBC reception from Ingleside was poor)

Any new stations on the American side of the border would not be automatically carried by cable -- no cable , no market. The number of people in Ottawa who would invest in long-range OTA equipment to receive cross-border stations is negligible. Depending on how the WPTZ signal would be augmented for the North Country, it may be able to be carried in Ottawa because WPTZ existed before 1968, and was actually carried by Ottawa cable until the late seventies.

So this leaves the the North Country market, and Cornwall and Brockville. Not much to build a business case on....

I don't know anyone had notice or even care since Fox has been on air for a while now and no one has said anything, but I think WFFF also has the same problem with their CW programing at night, which is suppose to be in HD, but is broadcast in SD instead.

WFFF won't be able to show CW programming in HD because AFAIK, they don't have any equipment record HD material to air at a later time. Also, there is a format issue because WFFF and Fox send their content in 720p, while the CW sends it in 1080i.

Also, is it just me or is WPTZ off the air?

No WPTZ signal here either.

No WPTZ signal here either.Let's hope it's because they're fiddling with the HD settings and not another equipment failure.

Let's hope it's because they're fiddling with the HD settings and not another equipment failure.


WPTZ on here in Essex

I'm only getting a signal of 15% in St. Hubert (no lock). When I look at the meter, it's strangely bursting all over the place on channel 14. Not sure if there's interference, multipath, or if it's WPTZ's transmitter acting up...

I'm going to send the letters this afternoon. Keep them comming...

I am in Repentigny Quebec, I do receive all Burlington stations perfectly except WVNY DT channel 13, No signal at all on WVNY DT channel 13.

WPTZ on here in Essex

Looks like somebody flipped the power switch to high. WPTZ is now at 70% here. It was barely over 0% for the last few days. Still nowhere near as strong as WCAX and WETK, but about on par with WFFF and WVNY. Definitely servicable. Yippeee - five networks in digital!

Not sure if they're in true HD yet. Will have to wait until some HD programming comes on.

DG

Yep. WPTZ seems to be back up (I'm not sure if it's full-power though). They still haven't fixed the problems with the PSIP data not being sent and the CC line at the top of the picture. I don't think they've sent any HD through yet either.

I thought that with WNNE being on the air for a good while now they would have been able to have a decent feed inside their control room...

To all of those in the Montreal area, has anyone tried making a homemade filter to block out channel 12 to see if that would raise channel 13's signal?

I found this site that says that if you attach your antenna line to a splitter and have a dangling wire of a certain length on one output, you can short out an interfering frequency. For channel 12, the length (using RG-6 cable) would be between 27.57cm and 26.79cm, starting at the longest one and cutting it gradually until you get best results. Don't cut too much because then you'd start reducing channel 13.
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/interference/solutions/index.htm

Has anyone here tried it yet to see if it helps get WVNY-DT 13?

Tried this for channel 2 and 6 - 10 years ago. It works great for me. I didn't had the time to make one for channel 12 yet. I made a custum metal box so a can add 3 wire on it. Right now, like i said i have 2 and 6. I might remove them to put 10 and 12 in there. It's raining today, maybe i'll do that before football!!


Also, why is WPTZ picture so washed out? It is really blend compare to WCAX and WFFF. I can't compare to WVNY this morning, BECAUSE I DON'T GET IT!!!!!! :rolleyes:



To all of those in the Montreal area, has anyone tried making a homemade filter to block out channel 12 to see if that would raise channel 13's signal?

I found this site that says that if you attach your antenna line to a splitter and have a dangling wire of a certain length on one output, you can short out an interfering frequency. For channel 12, the length (using RG-6 cable) would be between 27.57cm and 26.79cm, starting at the longest one and cutting it gradually until you get best results. Don't cut too much because then you'd start reducing channel 13.
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/interference/solutions/index.htm

Has anyone here tried it yet to see if it helps get WVNY-DT 13?

Also, why is WPTZ picture so washed out? It is really blend compare to WCAX and WFFF.Dunno... Looks to me like they're still broadcasting a letterboxed, upscaled SD picture.

Yeah. Even worse. It looks like they're broadcasting WPTZ on NTSC channel 5, then they're picking it up again over-the-air, encoding it, and then resending it digitally on channel 14! :p

FOXFAN:
I did the 10 and 12 trap, tuned it the best i could and it does help on 13. Not by much, but now it's locking. I'll play with it a little more later.

wptz stinks, cant even get it and when i do it has not any program in hd. was hoping sunday night football was going to be had for once. oh well, lets hope they get with the program like abc and cbs.....

It's great to finally watch an NFL game on Fox in HD! (Especially after the Pats loss). :confused:

I jsut lost reception from PTZ while watching the game...happen to anyone else? Was getting a perfect picture and signal earlier - Now it's a pixelated mess regardless of the direction and level amplication of my antenna. I guess it's going to take a bit for them to get this right...

I've got a VHF antenna with direct line of site at 13.5 miles and I am only getting WPTZ at 43% right now so it seems they have some sort of problem. I get VPT-HD and FOX-HD at 98% and WCAX ranges from 55-80%. I wonder why PTZ and CAX vary so much in their signal strength.

PTZ is back up...looks good again...

I'm getting WPTZ fine here, but not on all my tuners. I guess it might be PSIP problem...

I've got a VHF antenna with direct line of site at 13.5 miles and I am only getting WPTZ at 43% right now so it seems they have some sort of problem. I get VPT-HD and FOX-HD at 98% and WCAX ranges from 55-80%. I wonder why PTZ and CAX vary so much in their signal strength.

You need a UHF antenna WPTZ is on channel 14.

Hi people
After lots of moving around, I finaly realised that my uhf/vhf cheap antenna won't cut it. I can either get cbs/nbc/fox/pbs but no src/cbc and then there' abc. Long story short, I can only get either one of the three at any given time.
I went ahead and bought a philips mant902 vhv/uhf antenna. Hopefuly I can get everything at the same time.
Has anybody used them? I'll try it without an amp, see how it goes.
Also , montreal and vermont stations are on the same line but oposite directions, at 180degrees. I'm hoping the new antenna will pick both locations at the same time..Also the antenna seems to be getting the job done for VHV and abc.
We'll see, I'll keep you posted.
but if somebody has used or is using this antenna, please let me know.

thanks.

WPTZ is carrying the Today show this morning in beautiful HD! 5.2 still is blank, but perhaps that will come back also. Power level still seems low.

WPTZ works on my computer ATSC card. But does'nt on my tuners???

I think FOXFAN says it might me a PSIP problem....
The weird things is that it came back on sunday to go away again on the tuners...

Any ideas?

You need a UHF antenna WPTZ is on channel 14.
Right, got it confused with WVNY. I have a DB4 UHF antenna and still a weak and variable signal for PTZ.

WPTZ is carrying the Today show this morning in beautiful HD!That's good news!! Now I'm caught wondering if I should change the timer on my receiver to record Studio 60 tonight from the OTA tuner instead of from the DishNetwork feed. Up 'til now, WPTZ-DT's signal has been inferior to what I'm getting from Dish.

VTTOM, I'd be careful. I saw what looked like a pretty awkward switch-flip back to very poor resolution local commercials a few seconds after the end of the Today Show. I suspect this operation is no where as slick as the Fox splicer and that we may have problems for a while getting the switch thrown to HD. Folks in other cities complained about that quite a bit with the NBC affiliates during their start up months. We'll keep our fingers crossed.

HDBruce, thanks for the tip. I'll plan to watch some of Heroes (from 9-10) and use that experience to decide at the last minute what broadcast of Studio 60 to record.

I jsut lost reception from PTZ while watching the game...happen to anyone else? Was getting a perfect picture and signal earlier - Now it's a pixelated mess regardless of the direction and level amplication of my antenna. I guess it's going to take a bit for them to get this right...

Got the same problem last night. I enjoyed the first half of the game last night and then basically nothing for the second half - gave up and switched over to the analog signal - bummer.

Got the same problem last night. I enjoyed the first half of the game last night and then basically nothing for the second half - gave up and switched over to the analog signal - bummer.


Are you inferring the game was in HD?

I had to give up on WPTZ last night I din not think they could get their act together on a Sunday night.

Nascar in SD VERY FRUSTRATING!!

Too bad the last two stations who signed on have been so disappointing. WVNY is broadcasting on a lousy VHF channel allocation at a low power which many can't get, and WPTZ has a crappy, soft, poorly encoded (out-of-sync, CC code showing) non-HD feed internally. :(

At least the two networks I watch most (FOX and CBS) have good affiliates in the Burlington-Plattsburgh-Montreal area!

[QUOTE=foxfan]Too bad the last two stations who signed on have been so disappointing. WVNY is broadcasting on a lousy VHF channel allocation at a low power which many can't get, and WPTZ has a crappy, soft, poorly encoded (out-of-sync, CC code showing) non-HD feed internally. :(

At least the two networks I watch most (FOX and CBS) have good affiliates in the Burlington-Plattsburgh-Montreal area![/QUOTE

What is really to bad is that no one at PTZ will listen. and their news is still in SD a waste of a new set if you ask me. :(

Anyone else notice yet that the sound is off on PTZ HD? It looks like the sound is slightly behind the action on the screen...

Anyone else getting bad audio on WCAX during the HD shows tonight? The commercials have no problem.

Yes I'm getting "staticky" sound on CAX as well...

Anyone else notice yet that the sound is off on PTZ HD? It looks like the sound is slightly behind the action on the screen...

Yeah. That's what I meant by "out of sync".

Right, got it confused with WVNY. I have a DB4 UHF antenna and still a weak and variable signal for PTZ.

You are in Vermont and you are only 13,5 miles from Mont Mansfield.

Your Antenna is powerful because it is 4 Antenna in parallel and the signal from each antenna add to the signal of the others antenna. When you put 2 antenna in parallel you double the signal of your first antenna. If you add to more antenna you double the signal again.

That rule is true if the signal of from each antenna is in phase. If the signal from each antenna is out of phase, the signal subtract and with 2 antenna you may have less signal than with a single antenna.

All the different tv channels has different waves length, if your antenna is not properly align, the signal from one channel may add but the signal from the other channels may subtract.

How to correct your problem? Since all antenna are one over the other, this antenna is very selective vertically, It is not a problem if you are very far from the transmitter. If from your place you have to look at 15 degrees inclination to see the transmitters antennas, so you have to incline vertically your antenna by 15 degrees so that all signals are in phase and add together. In other word, this antenna has to be align horizontally and vertically, and his vertical alignment is more critical than his horizontal alignment.

I am Canadian French, excuse my English if it is not perfect. Good look.

I believe that the engineers at WVNY did know that they would not reach Montreal with that temporary transmitter. In the mean time, they didn’t have the choice to use channel 13 and they wait 2009 transition to use there analog channel 22 for digital transmission.

WVNY is on 13 because they asked for a channel reassignment after being assigned channel 16 by the FCC. They will not switch their digital broadcasts to channel 22 in 2009. They are slated to remain on 13 by their own choice. WCAX will move to 22 from 53 in 2009 because WVNY opted not to .

Yeah. That's what I meant by "out of sync".

Yes. I noticed the sound problem on WPTZ. Looks to me like the sound is slightly ahead of the picture, but it's just a millisecond or less. It's not happening on their sister station, WNNE-HD. Sound is in sync there.

DG

That's why there is some concern about VPT, because they keep saying they're going to do 5 channels - PBS, PBS Kids, two others, and then PBS HD - but they'll have to cut down the HD bandwidth so much that it will probably look lousy.


If the 5 sub channels plan is ever implemented, VPT will not be broadcasting on all 5 at the same time. The plan is/was to broadcast 4 SD programs from 7 am to 8 pm on weekdays and broadcast 1 SD program plus the PBS HD channel the rest of the week. This is the same strategy that many PBS stations had planned to adopt.

However this plan seems to have been shelved for the foreseeable future. If you rerun your tuner's set up, you'll see that VPT has changed their VCT (virtual channel table) in the PSIP to include only 2 sub-channels. 33.1 is now the PBS HD channel and 33.2 is a 480i SD digital version of their regular NTSC programs. The change was made last week.

BTW, the schedules for WETK-HD and WCFE-HD are identical. The only difference is the station's logos on the screen.

WVNY is on 13 because they asked for a channel reassignment after being assigned channel 16 by the FCC. They will not switch their digital broadcasts to channel 22 in 2009. They are slated to remain on 13 by their own choice. WCAX will move to 22 from 53 in 2009 because WVNY opted not to .

Yeah. They made that choice without even knowing how far their signal will be going. I'm not even able to get a stable signal from WVNY-13 right now despite having purchased an antenna specifically for that channel and using a 30db amp as well!

They better hurry up and change their mind before someone else in the region decides to take channel 33 or channel 44 post-transition...

I am Canadian French, excuse my English if it is not perfect.Tres bien! Your English is a whole lot better than my French. :)

WPTZ went from 43% on Sunday night to 78% last night, so they've tweaked something. Heroes sure looked good in HD.
And WCAX fixed the scratchy sound later in the evening.

I'm not even able to get a stable signal from WVNY-13 right now despite having purchased an antenna specifically for that channel and using a 30db amp as well!Thinking back to the photo of you ch13 antenna, I'm wondering if you tried either of the following...

1) Move the antenna forward, so that the attachment point between the boom and the pole is at the back of the antenna, behind all of the elements (instead of going up through the middle like it is now).

2) Rotate the boom 90 degrees so that the elements are perpendicular to the ground. Grabbing at straws here, but was thinking along the lines of differences in signal strength WRT polarization.

Thinking back to the photo of you ch13 antenna, I'm wondering if you tried either of the following...

1) Move the antenna forward, so that the attachment point between the boom and the pole is at the back of the antenna, behind all of the elements (instead of going up through the middle like it is now).

2) Rotate the boom 90 degrees so that the elements are perpendicular to the ground. Grabbing at straws here, but was thinking along the lines of differences in signal strength WRT polarization.

3) Bite the bullet and spend 80 bucks on a real ch.12 notch filter.

Hi all... I spoke to 2 different people at Comcast / Adelphia in S. Burlington and both said the same thing... They have NO INTENTION of retransmitting the HD signals of any local channel but WCAX until sometime next year. I guess those of us planning on using Comcast / Adelphia now need to get over the air. Sadly I don't have a tuner in my HDTV. Anyway, I thought I'd pass the along.

Are you inferring the game was in HD?

I had to give up on WPTZ last night I din not think they could get their act together on a Sunday night.

Nascar in SD VERY FRUSTRATING!!


Yes, the game was in HD until the second half. They must of had trouble at some point Sunday night. At halftime, I switched to other programing for a bit, went and grabbed a beer and snack, and when I turned the channel back to the game - POOF! - the HD signal was basically gone. There was still a very faint signal - but nothing more than a pixelated mess to watch so I gave up and watched the game in analog OTA instead. I would have normaly been a bit upset, but with the Jets victory over the Patriots (earlier in the day) who could care :) J!E!T!S! Jets! Jets! Jets!

Yeah. They made that choice without even knowing how far their signal will be going. I'm not even able to get a stable signal from WVNY-13 right now despite having purchased an antenna specifically for that channel and using a 30db amp as well!

They better hurry up and change their mind before someone else in the region decides to take channel 33 or channel 44 post-transition...

I think you are in Longueuil Quebec, You are closer than I to the VHF Transmitters in Montreal.

A Few years ago I did try a few preamp on my VHF Antenna and with most of them there was overload. I had to use a VHF preamp with a high input to solve the problem. The 30db preamp have less than 30 000 micro volt maximum input signal and they overload when the input signal is to high.
To solve the problem, I had to use separate UHF and VHF preamp and take care of maximum input signal. I did find Jerrold Preamps with 200 000 micro volts input with 20db gain who work very well without any overload here in Repentigny. Winegard AP 3700 has 17db gain on VHF and 110 000 micro volt input, there 29db gain preamp has only 29 000 microvolt maximum input signal and Channel master preamp overload even more.
If the signal to noise ratio at antenna terminal is not good it gave you noting to add a Preamp. The preamp is use to compensate the lost in your antenna cable.

About WVNY they could increase they power without making interference in CKTM channel 13 territory. May be they will increase there power after they finish the tests with there transmitter?

I've been lurking for a while and now that you folks are confirming lots of HD OTA in the Burlingon area, I have a question... Any idea where (or if) these channels sit on cable?

That is, our HDTV is capable of pulling HD off cable without a cable box (we don't have one), and we receive WCAX on 113-4 and VPT on 113-2. We used to get an NBC channel from Boston in HD on 113-3 but that's long gone.

Adelphia used to send SD of pay TV that our television could tune in on the higher channels like 102-XX and up. That was fun, but they stopped doing it eventually.

I've been lurking for a while and now that you folks are confirming lots of HD OTA in the Burlingon area, I have a question... Any idea where (or if) these channels sit on cable?

That is, our HDTV is capable of pulling HD off cable without a cable box (we don't have one), and we receive WCAX on 113-4 and VPT on 113-2. We used to get an NBC channel from Boston in HD on 113-3 but that's long gone.

Adelphia used to send SD of pay TV that our television could tune in on the higher channels like 102-XX and up. That was fun, but they stopped doing it eventually.

Comdelphia does not currently offer any other local channels in HD. The latest I heard is several posts behind this one, stating that Comcast has said they will not offer any other local channels in HD until at least next year.

Here is the response I got from WPTZ when I asked if their news was going to be broadcast in 16x9 like WCAX

[/QUOTE]Think about this for a minute... if you were trying to market your product
to reach the largest amount of people possible, would you use a high-end
high-dollar transportation media when it can only reach about 1% of your
target market?

It would be bad business for us to throw everything at HDTV when we would
alienate the other 99% of the market that will only switch when they are
forced to by the FCC imposed NTSC shutdown date.

Let's say for sake of argument that there are 1 Million people in our
coverage area from the Connecticut River Valley to the St. Lawrence
Valley. Statistics say that the first year we will only get from 1-10%
viewership on HDTV channel. In White River Junction, where we have been
broadcasting in HDTV for a year and a half, we still only have about 30%
penetration. AND THAT IS A SOMEWHAT AFFLUENT AREA!!! We are hoping to
reach 80% across the board by February 2009 when the Federal Gov't will
force us to dump analog.

The kicker is, advertisers won't buy time on the HDTV channels until we
reach a certain penetration level and it becomes worth their money to
purchase time and eyeballs.

You can go ahead and watch WCAX 16X9 broadcasts and know that their goals
and motivating factors are a bit different than ours. They have spent a
good deal of cash on all this equipment that will go away in 3 years, and
they aren't really giving you true, native HD. Don't get me wrong, I
respect and admire our brothers at WCAX (particularly Mr. Teffner), but I
don't have that kind of cash available to me, so I have to be smart about
how I allocate what we do get.

We believe that waiting for the viewership to catch up with the technology
is the smarter approach than saying "I was first".
Also we give the technology a couple of years to develop and prices to
come down on certain types of items (like monitors).


-Andrew

ALombard@hearst.com

Here is the response I got from WPTZ when I asked if their news was going to be broadcast in 16x9 like WCAX

Think about this for a minute... if you were trying to market your product
to reach the largest amount of people possible, would you use a high-end
high-dollar transportation media when it can only reach about 1% of your
target market?

It would be bad business for us to throw everything at HDTV when we would
alienate the other 99% of the market that will only switch when they are
forced to by the FCC imposed NTSC shutdown date.

Let's say for sake of argument that there are 1 Million people in our
coverage area from the Connecticut River Valley to the St. Lawrence
Valley. Statistics say that the first year we will only get from 1-10%
viewership on HDTV channel. In White River Junction, where we have been
broadcasting in HDTV for a year and a half, we still only have about 30%
penetration. AND THAT IS A SOMEWHAT AFFLUENT AREA!!! We are hoping to
reach 80% across the board by February 2009 when the Federal Gov't will
force us to dump analog.

The kicker is, advertisers won't buy time on the HDTV channels until we
reach a certain penetration level and it becomes worth their money to
purchase time and eyeballs.

You can go ahead and watch WCAX 16X9 broadcasts and know that their goals
and motivating factors are a bit different than ours. They have spent a
good deal of cash on all this equipment that will go away in 3 years, and
they aren't really giving you true, native HD. Don't get me wrong, I
respect and admire our brothers at WCAX (particularly Mr. Teffner), but I
don't have that kind of cash available to me, so I have to be smart about
how I allocate what we do get.

We believe that waiting for the viewership to catch up with the technology
is the smarter approach than saying "I was first".
Also we give the technology a couple of years to develop and prices to
come down on certain types of items (like monitors).

-Andrew

ALombard@hearst.com

Personally I think that's a good response. Certainly more complete and honest than most.

It may not be what people want to hear but at least he appears to be trying to give a straight answer that relates to their position while not trying to run down the competition.

I wish more of them were as forthcoming. Does anyone know if he works at WPTZ or is higher up the H-A chain of command?

Has anyone received a response from WPTZ yet regarding the sync problems and the annoying CC line at the top of the picture?

Anyone have audio dropouts on the Burlington and Plattsburgh PBS HD stations?

Using OTA rooftop antenna w/signal strength around 70%, they happen about once every minute or two, lasting a fraction of a second. I'd like to know what's the likely cause/cure.

Doesn't seem to happen on WFFF HD.

Earlier this week I asked Montreal cable supplier Videotron when they would switch US channels from Buffalo to Mount Mansfield and area.

Reading all the troubles you guys are experiencing, I sent another message to Videotron today giving them a link to this thread... and saying that it could be premature to make the switch at this time.

Anyone else getting bad audio on WCAX during the HD shows tonight? The commercials have no problem.

Yes! I was away for a couple of days, but my wife said the HD stuff was fine for the game on Sunday, but when she went to watch HD programming on Monday night, the multi-channel 5.1 Dolby Digital audio was all static.

All SD programming with 2-channel audio is perfectly fine.

All other stations multi-channel 5.1 Dolby Digital audio is fine. Is anybody that is watching HD content on CAX getting the mutli-channel audio without static?

WCAX had a lot of trouble with the HD feed last night and repeatedly dropped back to SD. The audio was either very scratchy or dropped out completely. At least they were monitoring it and took corrective action.

Anybody here watching PBS HD and having audio dropouts????

WCAX had a lot of trouble with the HD feed last night and repeatedly dropped back to SD. The audio was either very scratchy or dropped out completely. At least they were monitoring it and took corrective action.

They weren't monitoring it when I called it in last night. They weren't aware of the problem. I also called Wed night, same problem.

They weren't monitoring it when I called it in last night. They weren't aware of the problem. I also called Wed night, same problem.
Thanks for staying on top of it. If it weren't local long distance, I would have called WCAX myself. I'm surprised they don't monitor the broadcasts; maybe because analog never gave them any problems. I guess we jinxed it when we said that WCAX really had their HD act together. :-)

Sorry for going slightly off-topic, but I'm looking for advice I can trust...

I've been shopping around for an entry-level, 32in., high-def LCD display (ATSC tuner optional). I've more-or-less settled on the Syntax Olevia 332H, because it seems to strike a good balance between specs, features, and price.

I've done some shopping around, and have found a really good price, but it's at an online retailer I've never heard of before: thenerds.net. Their asking price is approx. $550 (http://thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=OLEVIA332H&sSearchSession=) plus $25 shipping. The next best price I've found is $125 more ($699 w/ free shipping) from TigerDirect.

Has anyone heard of thenerds.net or, better yet, done business with them?

A quick Google search of "thenerds.net" didn't turn up any horror stories.

-Tom

Sorry for going slightly off-topic, but I'm looking for advice I can trust...

I've been shopping around for an entry-level, 32in., high-def LCD display (ATSC tuner optional). I've more-or-less settled on the Syntax Olevia 332H, because it seems to strike a good balance between specs, features, and price.

I've done some shopping around, and have found a really good price, but it's at an online retailer I've never heard of before: thenerds.net. Their asking price is approx. $550 (http://thenerds.net/index.php?page=productpage&pn=OLEVIA332H&sSearchSession=) plus $25 shipping. The next best price I've found is $125 more ($699 w/ free shipping) from TigerDirect.

-Tom
From Nov 20-27, C**tco.com (big discount chain in Colchester) has a new Sceptre 32" LCD with ASTC for under $600 including shipping.
The Sceptre X32GV-KOMODO LCD monitor features 1366 x 768 resolution and a 1200:1 contrast ratio and HDMI video inputs, the Sceptre X32GV-KOMODO offers everything you need for excellent TV viewing anywhere in your home.

Features:

Screen Size: 31.51" viewable wide color LCD TV
Resolution 1366 x 768
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 Wide Screen
Brightness: 500 cd/m2
Contrast ratio: 1200:1
Response Time: 8 ms
Viewing Angle: 170 L/R, 170 u/d
3D Comb filter
Progressive scan
V-Chip Parental control
4 Preset Picture Modes
Digital Dynamic Noise reduction
Built-in Speakers: 8w + 8w (stereo)
5 Preset Sound Modes
Auto Volume Level Adjustment
Multi- Channel Television Sound
SPDIF Audio output
Built-in NTSC, ATSC & QAM Tuner
Support HDTV 1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i

Dimensions:

31.5” W x 9.5" D x 23.5" H (w/ stand)
31.5” W x 9.5" D x 21.6250" H (w/o stand)
Weight: 37.5 lbs


Inputs/ Outputs:

* ATSC/NTSC/Clear QAM Input
* Component Input X 2
* S-Video 4-pin DIN & Audio (R/L) input X 2
* Composite Input X 2
* Composite Out X 1
* VGA (15pin), HDMI (HDCP)
* SPDIF Out

I found this review of the Sceptre 37in. LCD HDTV from a year ago...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_4/sceptre-37-inch-lcd-hdtv-11-2005-part-1.html

It was very favorable. I wonder how much of this analysis is applicable to the 32in. model?

Definitely worth serious consideration. I'm just looking for something to replace the 10yr old 27in. CRT in the living room. For "serious" watching, we use the projector in the basement home threater. :)

Thanks for the tip!

Thanks for staying on top of it. If it weren't local long distance, I would have called WCAX myself. I'm surprised they don't monitor the broadcasts; maybe because analog never gave them any problems. I guess we jinxed it when we said that WCAX really had their HD act together. :-)

Y&R was only shown in SD today too. I hope they fix their problem before Jericho tonight!!!

Rats! :mad:

I guess it must have been premature to cut-off my satellite service... :(

Rats! :mad:

I guess it must have been premature to cut-off my satellite service... :(

WCAX has been a mess all week. CSI: Miami, The Unit, Two and a Half Men, etc. have all been broadcast partially in HD (with audio issues), and then converted to SD (apparently to fix the audio issues). They are still completely hosed from what I can tell; the OTA and Comcast-provided HD feeds of WCAX are showing in SD right now. I'm hoping they get their sh** together by 10:00 for CSI: NY, but I am not hopeful.

Ah well. I was falling behind on my reading, anyway. Guess I'll pick up a good book tonight.

Antennacraft U1000 review

Thought I would share this with everyone.

After waaaaaay too much time looking for UHF antennas I just purchased the Antennacraft U-1000 from Stark Electronics in Worcester, Mass. Do a Google search and they will show up on top. Great web site and tons of info and reference material. I ordered on Monday and it was at my door on Tuesday at 9:30 AM here in Georgia, VT. Awesome service!

The antenna has a relatively small footprint at 20 x 35 and about 4 inches deep. It's a 4 bay design and is constructed well. I can't see wind or snow ice loading being a real issue with this antenna. Snap the elements in place, attach the front array to the reflector with 2 wing nuts and washers, fasten the included 300-75 ohm weatherproof balun with the wing nuts and you are ready to install in your favorite location.

I cut about a 20 foot piece of RG-6, screwed on some connectors, hooked one end to my LG LST-3510A, strung the coax out the window, attached the antenna and leaned it against one of the deck posts facing east towards Mansfield. The deck was wet and rain quickly soaked the antenna. Did a quick scan and I had Fox, VPT, Mtn Lake, CAX and VNY. No earth ground at that point in time. Not bad for $22.95 plus $7.99 shipping!

One of the reasons I chose this antenna were the specs indicating good reception into the higher VHF range and it proved itself well. I have a 19 mile shot to Mansfield through Georgia Mountain. Warplane on VPT was awesome tonight! Now if CAX can get their act together and PTZ would fix the Kung Fu audio sync problem life could be grand!

Antennacraft U1000 review

One of the reasons I chose this antenna were the specs indicating good reception into the higher VHF range and it proved itself well. I have a 19 mile shot to Mansfield through Georgia Mountain. Warplane on VPT was awesome tonight! Now if CAX can get their act together and PTZ would fix the Kung Fu audio sync problem life could be grand!
Thanks for the review. Where did you find specs on its VHF capability? Everything I found just showed UHF performance. The CM 4228 is the only UHF antenna that I've seen good upper VHF specs on.

Did a quick scan and I had Fox, VPT, Mtn Lake, CAX and VNY.Once you settle into a more permanent install, send me a PM with the signal readings from your receiver (typically 0-100%). I'll add them to my annotated Google Earth map. (located here http://mysite.verizon.net/avs.vttom/downloads/).

WCAX has been a mess all week. CSI: Miami, The Unit, Two and a Half Men, etc. have all been broadcast partially in HD (with audio issues), and then converted to SD (apparently to fix the audio issues). They are still completely hosed from what I can tell; the OTA and Comcast-provided HD feeds of WCAX are showing in SD right now. I'm hoping they get their sh** together by 10:00 for CSI: NY, but I am not hopeful.

Ah well. I was falling behind on my reading, anyway. Guess I'll pick up a good book tonight.

Why hope? Why not just pick up the phone and call them?

I've called them the last three nights reporting problems, and it seems that I'm the the only one calling because they weren't aware of any problems.

People, if you're not happy with the service please call and report the problem. That's the only possible way of getting it fixed. Flood them with calls. WCAX 658-6300. When you get the recording hit 8, this will connect you to the transmitter.

Sorry for going slightly off-topic, but I'm looking for advice I can trust...

I've been shopping around for an entry-level, 32in., high-def LCD display (ATSC tuner optional). I've more-or-less settled on the Syntax Olevia 332H, because it seems to strike a good balance between specs, features, and price.


-Tom

Wait till Black Friday and get a equal deal at a brick and morter. (where you can return it if theres something wrong). also buy has it for 525

WCAX 658-6300. When you get the recording hit 8, this will connect you to the transmitter.

The transmitter or master control?

Thanks for the review. Where did you find specs on its VHF capability? Everything I found just showed UHF performance. The CM 4228 is the only UHF antenna that I've seen good upper VHF specs on.


You may have caught me! I looked at so many specs/antennas I may have been thinking of the 4228 when I wrote this! The4228 was my second choice but I liked the straight forward simple design of the U1000 and specs seemed to work. Also, the Solidsignal web store wanted almost $30 to ship a $45 4228 antenna. At the price of the U1000 I can buy 2 of them an gang them back to back and get the east/west directionality I need for the less $. I'll look through my bookmarks for what I've found on the U1000. For now channel 13 does not seem to present an issue for this antenna so far.

[QUOTE=dtschlack]Why hope? Why not just pick up the phone and call them?

I've called them the last three nights reporting problems, and it seems that I'm the the only one calling because they weren't aware of any problems.

People, if you're not happy with the service please call and report the problem. That's the only possible way of getting it fixed. Flood them with calls. WCAX 658-6300. When you get the recording hit 8, this will connect you to the transmitter.[/QUOTE

I agree. CALL!!!! These folks run a 24 hour operation just like a datacenter. Someone should not be sleeping at the wheel there! Where is the quality control? Customer driven? If I just spent kind of money these businesses did to comply with federal regs and gain advertising bucks you bet I would want to know quality issues! And if you are not happy you have the right to complain to the FCC ( the FCC awards licenses to those parties deemed most able to serve “the public interest, convenience and necessity.”)

I even find it difficult to believe someone cannot adjust audio on CAX during the local news broadcast and commercial transitions. Seems someone at the oldest TV station in VT can't read an audio VU meter or set mic levels! And, yes, I have called to tell them.

Given what you folks know about the signal quality, should I spend/waste money on an indoor antenna in an attempt to get HD over the air? I'm out near Colchester Point. If there weren't trees, I could probably see Mt. Mansfield.

I wish I had known that this forum existed a year ago! I thought I was the only one begging the locals to do HD.
I think that we should take a moment to see beyond the technical glitches that plague the broadcasters at this point in the transition. I think that we can all applaude the fact that the stations have agreed to co-locate saving us many other reception problems. The fact that they are even up on the mountain with signals is really a tribute to planning and adaption to some of the worst terrain possible on which to place a transmitter. Yes, it is disappointing to hear the audio "crack and sputter" on WCAX while the network pictures are supurb. It is difficult to watch WPTZ's data stream on the VBI actually affect the picture--and what a pain it is to keep WVNY's signal strong enough to be watchable. All in all, I've had a great time in watching this transition and digital marvel actually take place. Indeed, it is even happening years before the original estimates. Call WCAX? Certainly...they can only benefit from the input. Complain to the FCC? I don't think so. In the big picture, this is a marvelous start to digital broadcasting in Vermont.
I use a Terk indoor antenna hooked to a Dish Network 622. I live in Williston and have very few real reception problems. Traditionally, the majority of broadcasters achieve a 75% signal level for me.

In response to all the problems that local stations are facing, I must say kudos to the Fox Network for their distribution system that has led WFFF to be problem free (except for the first three nights) over the past few weeks that it has been on the air. :D

Too bad the other networks don't have this...

As a previous slogan used to say: So many networks, JUST ONE FOX!

I also commend WFFF for going the extra mile to install a temporary antenna to allow us to get Fox-HD until the spring when the main one will have to be completed.

[QUOTE=TimComolli]
Tim, Do you have a straight shot at the Mountain, I have the Terk as well and I achieve 90+ on 2 stations, mid 80's on 2 others and mid 70's on VNY and CFE on the other side of the pond of course.
Do you have the amplified version of Terk? mine is not and I have a long run (i'm surprise I get anything at all with the hill in between.
I had to move the antenna to the attic to get these results, otherwise I was close to 0%.

woohoo! CSI is in full screen!

[QUOTE=dtschlack]Why hope? Why not just pick up the phone and call them?

When Adelphia first picked up CAX the direct HD feed there were similar problems. I was actually on the phone with CAX and Adelphia engineers as they were resolving audio issues in real time. At one point they thought their issues resolved but it went from no audio to spanish audio. ;) They were always switching between HD and SD broadcasting. If I remember right it took about a month or two for things to settle down and now they are very reliable.

The first time I saw CSI in a HD format my thoughts were "This is awesome, those special effects look fake!" HD does magnify any defects in special effects or any other content so much more than SD.

Well at least this year I get to watch the Super Bowl in HD. I really have a hard time watching football in SD.... I feel its not worth my time. I would rather go out and cycle over the notch road or app gap and get my own HD views. I My wife thinks I am spoiled.

[QUOTE=TimComolli]
Tim, Do you have a straight shot at the Mountain, I have the Terk as well and I achieve 90+ on 2 stations, mid 80's on 2 others and mid 70's on VNY and CFE on the other side of the pond of course.
Do you have the amplified version of Terk? mine is not and I have a long run (i'm surprise I get anything at all with the hill in between.
I had to move the antenna to the attic to get these results, otherwise I was close to 0%.
Actually I have a number of hills in the way to the mountain. I did spend an hour pointing the antenna in all possible directions and configurations. Boy, it was like being transported back to the 1950s! Finally, I came upon a set-up that gave a quality picture on all (except WCFE). I do have the amp version of the Terk but I think that I'll opt for something better to be sure I get signal numbers like yours. If I have learned one thing throughout this process, however, it is that I will never again eat anything while watching CSI in HD!

"You can go ahead and watch WCAX 16X9 broadcasts and know that their goals
and motivating factors are a bit different than ours. They have spent a
good deal of cash on all this equipment that will go away in 3 years, and
they aren't really giving you true, native HD."

The above quote is from WPTZ and reflects the difference between a commercial station owned by a large conglomerate and a local station that remains family owned. Too bad Channel 5 doesn't understand that media has more of a responsibility to the general public than simply making a profit. Also, the history of changes in electronic media in America are started by pioneers who take a risk and begin broadcasting without an audience to receive the new signal. Basically it comes down to, "if you build it, they will come."

Channel 5 was the first in the area to broadcast in color and the first to broadcast in stereo...both to very small audiences that were able to receive a color picture or stereo sound, but, over time, more and more color sets were purchased and the same held true for stereo TVs. WPTZ has led the way to upgrading the TV signal in the Burlington/Plattsburgh market, that is until HDTV came along. It looks like Hearst is calling the shots back in company headquarters.

A final question, what does he mean when he writes that WCAX isn't broadcasting their local news in "true, native HD?" Their picture looks pretty good to me.

WCAX news looks like 16x9 SD. It is certainly not HD but it's a step in the right direction.

WCAX news looks like 16x9 SD. It is certainly not HD but it's a step in the right direction.
If I remember correctly, they are broadcasting in 480i-widescreen format (or at least filming in 480i-widescreen and upsampling to 1080i before broadcasting).

As everyone says, it's a step in the right direction. At least they are getting used to filming and doing things in the 16x9 aspect ratio - that way instead of reconfiguring their set or the way they do things, if they want to go to true HD, all they have to do is upgrade the equipment.

Tripper, I think you're confusing the large conglomerates with the medium station groups (which Hearst would belong to, along with Sinclair, Tribune, and others) who hide behind the NAB and constantly pick fights with the networks. It's the medium groups like these that I despise!

If our local stations would have actually been owned by the "big conglomerates" (eg. Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC) then we probably would have had our HD years ago. The real conglomerates would have been able to afford better lawyers to crush these Vermont environmentalists! :D If not, you would have been granted automatic waivers to watch your networks from NYC (as they would have been owned by the same company).

This is why I've always argued that the national ownership cap (of 39%) should be lifted COMPLETELY!

"You can go ahead and watch WCAX 16X9 broadcasts and know that their goals
and motivating factors are a bit different than ours. They have spent a
good deal of cash on all this equipment that will go away in 3 years, and
they aren't really giving you true, native HD."



That's all very nice to read, but it doesn't change the fact that, notwithstanding some technical difficulties and inconsistent power levels, WCAX has done a far better job than WPTZ in bringing HD to the "north country".

WCAX's local news programs are slick presentations making good use of the full screen while WPTZ's look like sloppily upconverted analogue. The images of WPTZ's relay of many non-HD network and syndicated programs are dreadful (poor colour, fuzzy images, etc) compared to WCAX's. And what about the continuing lip sync problems. Sure the speed of sound is a lot lower than the speed of light but at normal viewing distances it shouldn't be noticeable. They seem to get it fixed and then it crops up again.

On the plus side is WPTZ's steady power output and excellent signal-to-noise ratio; but come on WPTZ, try making your product look good.

WPTZ seems to be in the same boat as CFCF in Montreal. Once technology leaders (e.g. colour and stereo), both now are being held back by the carpet baggers of the TV industry.

And what about the continuing lip sync problems. Sure the speed of sound is a lot lower than the speed of light but at normal viewing distances it shouldn't be noticeable.

The speed of light and sound doesn't matter in this instance, what you receive is a digitally modulated bit stream (8VSB).

Newbie in Montpelier here...
Anyone have an antenna suggestion for down here? I've checked out the Google Earth file and taken it all into consideration, but still am stumped.
Experiences or suggestions?

The speed of light and sound doesn't matter in this instance, what you receive is a digitally modulated bit stream (8VSB).

Good grief! The comment was not intended to be taken literally, or seriously. I was being facetious. Sorry, I forgot to add a "laugh track" (smilies).

Is anyone using an omni-directional UHF-only antenna? I'd like to probably get one in the spring (since the UHF channels are already coming in so well) but it needs to be UHF-only so that I can combine a VHF antenna (damn you WVNY) to it.

Here are the apps for their Burlington and St. Albans transmitters (the latter already has a CP):
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=167563
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=48411

They'll operate on channel 49 in Burlington and 41 in St. Albans.

I think the 30kw channel 41 signal might reach Montreal (we're already getting WFFF at 18kw)...

If it does I hope WVNY will apply for a translator in St. Albans as well...

Here are the apps for their Burlington and St. Albans transmitters (the latter already has a CP):

They'll operate on channel 49 in Burlington and 41 in St. Albans.

I think the 30kw channel 41 signal might reach Montreal (we're already getting WFFF at 18kw)...

If it does I hope WVNY will apply for a translator in St. Albans as well...

How does the ERP of these stations compare with that of WWBI? I get WWBI easily but it's closer to my location. WWBI is 47 miles from my house at a bearing of 168.0 . The St. Albans site is 58 miles at a bearing of 140.7. (The channel 49 site is 83 miles at a bearing of 158.2 which is a little further from me than Mount Mansfield).

Almost forgot to ask: what sort of program content can we expect?

WWBI is apparently around 44kw. How's your signal on WGMU analog (channel 52) night now?

For programming, WGMU is a "My Network TV" affiliate, a Fox-owned new network that shows the same two prime-time soaps every night of the week. I don't care much for the "network" programming, but WGMU does have a lot of big syndication shows that currently aren't being carried by the other stations in the market, such as "Geraldo", "South Park", and "Jerry Springer". I can't receive it well in analog, but I have a feeling that we might be pleasantly surprised by the digital signal...

On another topic, anyone seen the promos for this Sunday's "The Simpsons"? Apparently they go on a family vacation "so outrageous that it can only happen in VERMONT!" :eek: We can't miss that one! Wouldn't it be nice if we see them hike Mt. Mansfield??? :D

Newbie in Montpelier here...
Anyone have an antenna suggestion for down here? I've checked out the Google Earth file and taken it all into consideration, but still am stumped.
Experiences or suggestions?
According to antennaweb.org, you will need a fringe VHF/UHF antenna with a pre-amp. You should go to that site yourself as it defaults to the center of town which is pretty much in a hole. If you do it, you can give it the exact address which may change the outcome. Once you get the results, you can go to antennasdirect.com and select your antenna, or go to one of the sites that sells Channel Master or Winegard.

WWBI is apparently around 44kw. How's your signal on WGMU analog (channel 52) night now?


I get nothing on analogue 52. In the 50's or higher, the only analogue channels I receive are 57 (WCFE) and 62 (CH Montreal).

Something seems to be going on with WWBI. After showing nothing but Daystar programs for the last few months, it has reverted to infomercials and "i" (formerly PaxTV) programs for the last 2 days.

As for the WGMU St Alban's translator on 41, I'll keep an eye out for it.

Has anyone else seen a markedly large decrease on the power output of WFFF in the last few days? The station CEO says there is nothing wrong but I have a level thats dropped 25% while the others have remained the same.
Also, whoever sent me a personal message--its been lost somehow in the digital screwup storm! Please resend. Thanks.

Has anyone else seen a markedly large decrease on the power output of WFFF in the last few days? The station CEO says there is nothing wrong but I have a level thats dropped 25% while the others have remained the same.
Also, whoever sent me a personal message--its been lost somehow in the digital screwup storm! Please resend. Thanks.

Yes, at last check Wfff is down to 74% from 97% and WPTZ is down to 60% from 91% at 6:40 this morning. All else here in Chazy is in the upper 90's, normal! I don't believe it's my setup if all else is normal. The PQ is still good :confused:

Has anyone notified WPTZ that the sound sync is off on their HD channel? It's been that way for days. Very annoying. Sound sync is fine on their sister station, WNNE-HD.

DG

You mean the weather news, yes that's on 5.2. There is also a 5.1 that has normal programing if you call that "normal".
Good luck

NBC 5.1 and 5.2 are , PBS 5.1 and 57.2 are not.
Antennaweb has it all wrong, it should be the same as cbs,abc,fox,nbc and VPT,
If you are getting 5.2 you should be getting 5.1.
What are you using for equipment to tune in the HD locals, you might want to retune
also you must know that nbc is actually on channel 14 remapped to 5

Hmmm, so I can get all other channels except nada for a signal on NBC HD. In looking at antennaweb.org it says that the compass orientation should be 289 degrees for NBC and then 109 degrees for CBS, ABC, FOX, and PBC 33. These are all 80-90% signal and my UHF/VHF antennas are pointed in that direction using the A-neutronics AV-891. The very strange thing is that PBS 57.1 has an orientation of 303 degrees which is close to the 289 degrees for NBC HD and that comes in at around 70% signal. So what's up with NBC? And why wouldn't NBC 5.1 and PBS 57.1 also have the same compass orientation of 109 degrees since that's the orientation for me towards Mt. Mansfield and I thought that all of the locals were broadcasting from that location? Seems that maybe NBC 5.1 HD and PBS 57.1 HD are NOT broadcasting from Mansfield? Thanks!


WPTZ-DT broadcasts from Mt Mansfield, along with fox, cbs, abc, and vermont etv.
Antennaweb.org has it wrong -- I sent them an email about it last week, and they said they were going to look into it.

WCFE broadcasts from Lyon Mountain, northwest of plattsburg. Only the analog transmitters for WPTZ and WFFF are on Terry Mountain, south of Plattsburg.

O.k., so I am using a USDigital HDTV tuner. Bought it at Walmart for $129 so I know it's not the best, but still should work since everything else works. I have 90% signal on NBC 5.2, but it does not pick up/show 5.1. I have tired auto rescanning, but no luck. When I goto the "add a channel" option to do it manually, when I try to add channel 5, it finds nothing. But when I add channel 14, it gives great signal, claims that 2 channels were found. When I try to go to ch 14 using the remote, it shows nothing, but again shows something on ch 5.2. So is there a problem with how it is intpreting the ch 14 to ch 5 mapping? Anyone else have an idea? Thanks!

If WPTZ's VCT (Virtual Channel Table, part of the PSIP info) is set up correctly then channels 5.1 and 5.2 should be added to your channel list, but the 14.x channels should not be added. Their VCT was oriignally set up correctly. Perhaps WPTZ messed up their VCT when they were doing some PSIP changes. Try tuning directly to 14.4 to get NBC HD and 14.7 with your remote to get the Weather.

Antennaweb.org has it wrong -- I sent them an email about it last week, and they said they were going to look into it.


They have been informed numerous times about errors and have done nothing.

Any idea how I tune to the sub channel? I can't figure out how to enter the "." I just bought a different tuner off ebay which should be here in a week so that will also let me see if there's something about the way WPTZ is set-up that this tuner doesn't like. But still, there's got to be something wrong on WPTZ's part since the tuner gets everything else good. Nice to see that Pats destroy GB and then the Colts losing to Dallas!! :)

There should be a key on the remote for the ".". Some tuners use a "-" rather than a ".", but the key should be there. Did you not get a manual with the tuner? I can see getting a second hand tuner off eBay that lacks a manual, but not at Walmart.

Found out what the issue is on WPTZ-DT not showing up. They have it located on Mt Terry with the analog transmitter, so it doesn't appear to most of us because the signal would be too weak to receive. I got it by forcing an antenna height of 2000 feet and it showed up at 55 miles in the wrong direction instead of 13.5 miles at the same azimuth as the others. I've been in touch with antennaweb and they will verify the info I gave them and, hopefully, correct the database.

A friend just gave me an old rooftop antenna which I just put in my attic. When I say put I mean laid across the pool table! Did a quick scan this morning and now get 2 NBC channels, 2 VPt channels and 2 NY PBS channels. I'm using the built in tuner to my Vizio, it doesnt show signal strengths but does pause for 20-30seconds while trying to lock on to the other channels, and wonder about its ability. Which stations usually come in stronger? I'll try to play with antenna some more tonight.

Any idea how I tune to the sub channel? I can't figure out how to enter the "."

Try entering the channel with leading zeroes. Like 0052 if you're trying to get 5.2. My TV knows what I'm trying to do in that case.

Also, if your remote has something like menu navigation buttons with up/down/left/right, try entering 5 + right arrow + 2 and see what happens. That also works for me.

Found out what the issue is on WPTZ-DT not showing up. They have it located on Mt Terry with the analog transmitter, so it doesn't appear to most of us because the signal would be too weak to receive. I got it by forcing an antenna height of 2000 feet and it showed up at 55 miles in the wrong direction instead of 13.5 miles at the same azimuth as the others. I've been in touch with antennaweb and they will verify the info I gave them and, hopefully, correct the database.

Antennaweb is wrong. WPTZ's digital transmitters are on Mount Mansfield where they were always intended to be located. The new digital facilities on Mount Mansfield have been a joint effort of WCAX, WPTZ, WVNY, WFFF, WETK and VPR.

The Terry Mountain facilities of both WPTZ and WFFF will be removed after February 2009.

Good grief! The comment was not intended to be taken literally, or seriously. I was being facetious. Sorry, I forgot to add a "laugh track" (smilies).

HAHAHA Sorry about that.. You never know with people north of the border! :) (KIDDING of course)

Yes. 5.1 is on the air broadcasting normally.

o.k., so I was able to use the right arrow and enter 5+1 for WPTZ 5.1, but Nada, nothing. Can someone tell me if 5.1 is even on the air? Thanks for the tip.

5.1 is definitely on the air. I was watching it tonight. It has also been on the air every time I have tried to tune it in since November 8.

Now that you know how to enter the digital channel numbers with your remote, try 14.4 and 14.7 as suggested above. WPTZ is actually broadcasting its digital streams on channel 14.

5.1 is not a real channel; it is simply a label. That is why it is called a virtual channel. The only real signal actually being broadcast on channel 5 is WPTZ's analogue signal. 5.1 can only be tuned in with your remote if the information in WPTZ's PSIP stream correctly identifies it at the time you run your channel setup. Apparently there were errors in the PSIP info when you ran your setup.

board_jay,
Could you just try exchanging the tuner you have, tell them it is deffective, and it sounds like it it is.
Good luck

Yes. 5.1 and 5.2 are all part of the same datastream transmitting on physical channel 14 from Mt. Mansfield. If your tuner has 5.2, it has 5.1 at the same strength but somehow doesn't know what to do with it.

I have trouble with WCAX tonight for the first time ever!!! It is resetting my samsung T-165. But it works on my other 2 tuners? Any idea what happen?