------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Channels status:
Burlington, Plattsburg (Mt Mansfield)

* WVNY-DT 13 (ABC) on-air (hard to get)
* WPTZ-DT 14 (NBC) on-air
* WCAX-DT 22 (CBS) on-air
* WETK-DT 32 VPT (PBS) on-air
* WFFF-DT 43 (Fox 44.1, the CW on sub-channel 44.2) on-air
* WCFE-DT 38 - Mountain Lake (PBS) on-air

Montreal

*CBFT-DT 19 (SRC) on-air May change their antenna on Mt-Royal summer 2010
*CBMT-DT 20 (CBC) on-air May change their antenna on Mt-Royal summer 2010
* CFCF-DT 21 (CTV) No license yet. May change their antenna on Mt-Royal summer 2010(May flash cut to digital in 2011 on channel 12)
* CIVM-DT 27 (TQC) on-air
*CFJP-DT 42 (V) on-air
* CKMI-DT 51 (Global) Did not applied yet for license, No news
*CFTU-DT 54 (Canal Savoir) Did not applied yet for license, No news
*CFTM-DT 59 (TVA) Got license. May change their antenna on Mt-Royal summer 2010 (May flash cut to digital in 2011 on channel 10)
* CJNT-DT 69 (CH)Did not applied yet for license, No news



Updates:
TV stations in the Burlington market to collocate facilities on Mount Mansfield. Work began June 20, 2005 and is expected to be completed in 2006.

Major activities include:
Summer 2005:
Site preparation and excavations for WCAX building expansion; installation of tower foundations at the WCAX and VPT sites. Building expansion at the WCAX site; new pads for generators and oil containment facilities at the WCAX site.

Winter 2005-2006:
Completion of interior construction of the WCAX building expansion. VPT work to prepare for the installation of its new transmitter.

Summer 2006:
Installation of three new monopole towers, transmission lines, oil containment facilities. New transmitters and antennas installed for all broadcasters.

Summer 2009:
Five old towers removed and dismantled, leaving three monopole towers on Mt. Mansfield.
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My original post:
Does anyone knows when burlington networks will be digital?

thanks

Unfortunately it will still be a while for the Burlington-Plattsburgh area to have HDTV. It's a long story and it pi$$es me off probably a lot more than you. Here's how it goes.

The stations have all agreed that the best thing to do would be to have all the transmitters at the same place so that people wouldn't have to rotate their antenna when they change channels (as is the case now with some stations on the VT side (WCAX, WVNY, WETK) and some on the NY side (WPTZ, WFFF, WCFE). The site that was agreed upon as the best was the top of Mount Mansfield, VT since it is the highest mountain in the state and would give the best reach.

Annoyingly, stupid environmental fanatics backed by the state have been trying to prevent them from building the required new facilities/transmitters on the mountain because it will have an impact on the scenery and birds will get stuck in the towers and a bunch of other nonsense. Because of this, we are about a year and a half past the deadline to have DTV and we still have nothing.

This summer (2003), I spoke with Peter Martin, the General Manager for CBS affiliate WCAX Burlington (the most anxious station to go digital) to ask him what was going on. He told me that they seemed to have gotten most of the problems out of the way. Only a few minor negotiations remained but the green light should shortly be here. However, it is too late to start constructing now since it takes a long time and they wouldn't be able to finish it by the time the winter arrives. We then have to wait for construction to begin in the spring of 2004. If everything goes well, they would be setting-up stuff during the winter and hopefully testing in the spring of 2005 to (fingers-crossed) be ON THE AIR in digital (channel 53) by Fall 2005! There doesn't seem to be any way to be on before that :(. This is just for WCAX though. I'm not too sure about other stations...

I also recently spoke to the manager of WVNY about their digital plans, which included their request to broadcast on channel 13 (VHF band), which I object to. They claim that their signal will be able to reach more in the VHF than the UHF. I'm a bit skeptical about this. I live on the south shore of Montreal and find that current analog signals on the UHF band (22, 33, 44, 57) are coming in very well, especially 22 which transmits from Mt. Mansfield. However, it is almost impossible to pull in the stations in VHF (3, 5) from where I'm at. One possibility is that 3 and 5 use low-powered transmitters that don't properly reach into Quebec. I hope that I won't have problems getting WVNY-DT on channel 13. I also find it annoying since I wanted to get a strong UHF only antenna so that I wouldn't get interference from strong Montreal VHF stations such as 12. (Note: All other digital stations will be UHF). I don't care about Canadian networks! Anyhow, the WVNY manager told me that it will probably be three years (Fall 2006)!!! before they're on digital. He called WCAX's plans "unrealistic" and "overly optimistic". I hope it's not the case since that would leave only a few months before it would be time to shut down analog. I doubt that 85% of viewers will get DTV tuners in such little time...

To answer your question once again, it appears the earliest will be the fall of 2005. However, there could be some interesting testing going on in the winter or spring of 2005.

It's a real shame that we will be the last people getting OTA digital TV in the country because of moronic Vermont environmentalists.

Originally posted by foxfan
I also recently spoke to the manager of WVNY about their digital plans, which included their request to broadcast on channel 13 (VHF band), which I object to. They claim that their signal will be able to reach more in the VHF than the UHF. I'm a bit skeptical about this. I live on the south shore of Montreal and find that current analog signals on the UHF band (22, 33, 44, 57) are coming in very well, especially 22 which transmits from Mt. Mansfield. However, it is almost impossible to pull in the stations in VHF (3, 5) from where I'm at. One possibility is that 3 and 5 use low-powered transmitters that don't properly reach into Quebec.

What type of antenna are you using? At my parents old place in Ste-Marceline-de-Kildare (about 30 minutes north of Joliette and way north of you) we pulled in 3 & 5 crystal clear. Its been a while but I seem to remember them using a trap (i believe that is what its called) when switching between channels 5 & 6.

For now, I just use an amplified indoor antenna (VHF uses the rabbit ears). I want to put up an outdoor antenna on a tower to get U.S. nets properly. Hopefully the digitals will be coming in strong...

That "trap" was probably to reduce cross-channeling when using an amplifier. If they would try to boost channel 5, they would end up boosting channel 6 so strong that it would cross-over into where channel 5 should be. You probably need one of those when you're trying to boost a weak signal without over-boosting one that's already strong.

Anyone have any new info on this topic?

Sure would appreciate any updated info on Vermont / NH digital stations, especially Fox & ABC

Walt

Walt,

You may have to search on New Hampshire as well though it is possible that there are just not many folks in your area that come to AVS yet. I see there is a thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2290197#post2290197) on NH PBS but not sure if that will help you much. You might have to become one of the first here to try. Have you found out how far you are from your towers yet?

Originally posted by bdenman
Walt,

You may have to search on New Hampshire as well though it is possible that there are just not many folks in your area that come to AVS yet. I see there is a thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2290197#post2290197) on NH PBS but not sure if that will help you much. You might have to become one of the first here to try. Have you found out how far you are from your towers yet?

Bruce,

Hey, I just realized I'm getting help from you everywhere :-), thanks.

When I do that online signal location test thing (can't remember exactly the url) it only lists 2 as Digital right now, one is NH PBS (WLED-DT @ 48.1), 30 miles away in Littleton, NH and the other VT PBS (WVTB-DT @ 18), 40 miles away in St. Johnsbuty, Vt. (awaiting FCC permit).

Only networks listed are analog stations W38CB, 38 is ABC about 23 miles away in Littleton and WNNE, 31 is NBC about 43 miles. There's No Fox listed at all, so I guess the nearest one is still Fox44 in Burlington, Vt., which I assume is similar distance to WCAX (CBS) which is listed as 50 miles away. Anything in that direction is blocked by a hill in back of my house but the other listed above I may have a shot at. As for Fox, it doesn't look good as near as I can see.
Again, thanks for all your help,
Walt

Originally posted by waltinvt
Bruce,

Hey, I just realized I'm getting help from you everywhere :-), thanks.

When I do that online signal location test thing (can't remember exactly the url) it only lists 2 as Digital right now, one is NH PBS (WLED-DT @ 48.1), 30 miles away in Littleton, NH and the other VT PBS (WVTB-DT @ 18), 40 miles away in St. Johnsbuty, Vt. (awaiting FCC permit).

Only networks listed are analog stations W38CB, 38 is ABC about 23 miles away in Littleton and WNNE, 31 is NBC about 43 miles. There's No Fox listed at all, so I guess the nearest one is still Fox44 in Burlington, Vt., which I assume is similar distance to WCAX (CBS) which is listed as 50 miles away. Anything in that direction is blocked by a hill in back of my house but the other listed above I may have a shot at. As for Fox, it doesn't look good as near as I can see.
Again, thanks for all your help,
Walt

What kind of reception do you currently have from the Mt. Mansfield channels (3, 22, and 33)?

WCAX (CBS), WFFF (Fox), WVNY (ABC), WPTZ (NBC), WETK (PBS Vermont) digital stations will all be located on Mt. Mansfield. As I mentioned before the delays were caused by environmentalists that didn't want the new towers. To get their approval, they had to agree to share the same building and tower at the transmitter site, meaning that they will all be constructing together. The problem now is that WFFF and WETK's applications are being held by Industry Canada because they didn't specify "directional antenna" in their applications. This means that they can't construct this summer as planned and therefore (according to the manager of WCAX) the earliest they can be on the air is summer 2006!

However, WCFE (Mountain Lake PBS) in Plattsburgh will be starting on air testing THIS WEEK on channel 38 from Lyon Mountain, NY.

Originally posted by foxfan
What kind of reception do you currently have from the Mt. Mansfield channels (3, 22, and 33)?

Bruce,

I can't get any of them OTA. I get them all as part of my Dish locals and I also get them on my Charter basic cable.

If look on a map of Vt & NH, I'm in Bradford, Vt which is about 30 miles North of White River Juc, about 500 feet East of I-91. I'm at about 600 feet elevation but on the East side of a hill, so anything West of me is blocked.

I have a great view East into NH and decent views South and North-East.

I appreciate your interrest in helping me out here but I think my only hope for Fox HD is if it gets on Dish Network or Charter Cable, which doesn't sound likely. I'd switch to Direct TV but I'm in a Pegasus area and I've heard that they don't do any HD right now.

Walt

Originally posted by waltinvt
Bruce,

I can't get any of them OTA. I get them all as part of my Dish locals and I also get them on my Charter basic cable.

If look on a map of Vt & NH, I'm in Bradford, Vt which is about 30 miles North of White River Juc, about 500 feet East of I-91. I'm at about 600 feet elevation but on the East side of a hill, so anything West of me is blocked.

I have a great view East into NH and decent views South and North-East.

I appreciate your interrest in helping me out here but I think my only hope for Fox HD is if it gets on Dish Network or Charter Cable, which doesn't sound likely. I'd switch to Direct TV but I'm in a Pegasus area and I've heard that they don't do any HD right now.

Walt

Ouch? A few more thoughts.... If your not in a "white" area it appears you may be stuck for OTA HD from any of the major broadcasters. Perhaps you can contact your nearest station to see if you fall with their DMA or in an area without service (and/or check with Dish or Pegaus on that fact too). It might not hurt to check again with Pegasus to see if they don't carry the same or most of the HD offerings that DirecTV does (they are a reseller of DirecTV programming with their own packages and pricing). Though it won't give you the commerical broadcasters, you really might want to check into VOOM and see if their HD offerings appeal to you. Last, do check in with your Charter cable company to see if they have plans for HD in the near future.

Originally posted by waltinvt
Bruce,

I can't get any of them OTA. I get them all as part of my Dish locals and I also get them on my Charter basic cable.

If look on a map of Vt & NH, I'm in Bradford, Vt which is about 30 miles North of White River Juc, about 500 feet East of I-91. I'm at about 600 feet elevation but on the East side of a hill, so anything West of me is blocked.

I have a great view East into NH and decent views South and North-East.

I appreciate your interrest in helping me out here but I think my only hope for Fox HD is if it gets on Dish Network or Charter Cable, which doesn't sound likely. I'd switch to Direct TV but I'm in a Pegasus area and I've heard that they don't do any HD right now.

Walt

What is a Pegasus area?

For Fox-HD, you would have a lot more luck with DirecTV since it is now owned by Fox. They are slated to add that feed to their HD-lineup. However, you have to be in an area where no reception is possible or be in a Fox owned and operated market (in which you would likely have it OTA).

Sorry you can't get Mt. Mansfield. That's where all the HD will be. Would you clear the hill with a tower? If not, what about Albany NY, Springfield MA?

Originally posted by foxfan
What is a Pegasus area?

For Fox-HD, you would have a lot more luck with DirecTV since it is now owned by Fox. They are slated to add that feed to their HD-lineup. However, you have to be in an area where no reception is possible or be in a Fox owned and operated market (in which you would likely have it OTA).

Sorry you can't get Mt. Mansfield. That's where all the HD will be. Would you clear the hill with a tower? If not, what about Albany NY, Springfield MA?

Quoting from the Pegasus (http://www.pegsattv.com) web site: "Pegasus Satellite Television is your source for DIRECTV®. Headquartered in Marlborough, Massachusetts, Pegasus provides DIRECTV programming to rural areas in 41 states nationwide. "

If you live in a Pegasus area then you have to get your DirecTV from them (they have a contract with DirecTV to be the sole source of DirecTV in their areas). They use the same hardware and satellites as DirecTV but offer different packages of hardware, programming and pricing. And they have their own customer service operation too. From what I understand, if you want DirecTV, you are better off if you are not in a Pegasus area.

Pegasus offers the same channels/packages as DirecTV, only some are slightly more expensive ($1 or 2).

Originally posted by bdenman
Quoting from the Pegasus (http://www.pegsattv.com) web site: "Pegasus Satellite Television is your source for DIRECTV®. Headquartered in Marlborough, Massachusetts, Pegasus provides DIRECTV programming to rural areas in 41 states nationwide. "

If you live in a Pegasus area then you have to get your DirecTV from them (they have a contract with DirecTV to be the sole source of DirecTV in their areas). They use the same hardware and satellites as DirecTV but offer different packages of hardware, programming and pricing. And they have their own customer service operation too. From what I understand, if you want DirecTV, you are better off if you are not in a Pegasus area.

I probably should actually talk to a Pegasus rep but it's my understanding that Direct / Pegasus DOES NOT have the Vermont locals yet, so even if I qualify to get their Fox HD feed, that qould be the trade-off.

As for Voom, I tried their site a while ago and they wern't available for zip 05033.

Side thought: I wonder what the possibility is of having a combination of Dish & Pegasus programming ? I didn't have to sign any programming commitment contract with Dish, so I have some flexability there. Drop my HD package with Dish & maybe I could sell my 811 to cover the cost of a Direct HD receiver. Keep Dish for locals & Superstations, have Direct for HD and either keep my Dish "Everything Pak" or switch to the Direct equivalent, depending on who offers the better deal. Wishful thinking probably..........but the $120 a month I spend now should be able to buy me something better than I have. Now I'm starting to ramble on.
Hey, thanks for all your feedback.
Walt

If you live near White River JCT you should know that the PBS station on Mt Ascutney has been broadcasting HD for some time now.

Yes its amazing that Chittenden county folks like me (8 miles from Mt Mansfield) in the most populated area of the state are behind central VT for HD.

Finally Directv locals (SD) off satellite are (still) awaiting the launch of the next Directv satellite to provide this service...maybe a few months, maybe more. Dish already has (SD) locals on sat. The ploy to see if you qualify for Dish/Directv HD (CBS, etc) is dicey from what I have read....good luck.

PS Maybe I'll try the Platsburgh PBS HD signal in a few weeks too.

Well, no body has posted in here for a month. So I'd like to see if anything has changed.

Just a little background. I live in White River Junction, VT (05001), and have pretty much no OTA reception of any channels. WNNE (WPTZ) SAYS they have a tower just 15 miles south from me that operates on channel 31, yet I can't pick it up with rabbit ears, or the old directional that is on top of the house we just bought.

I currently have Adelphia basic, and am looking to get the heck away from it. It is horrible. The PQ is just attrocious.

I too am waiting for the Burlington locals to go up on D*. Believe it or not, I live 70 miles from Burlington, yet I am in their DMA. The new satellite is up, but they are still working on getting it operational, and the 72.4 bird they are trying to lease from Canada is still in the approval process at the FCC. So we're talking months before we see those locals.

So, here is my delimna: Do you think that if I were to put up the biggest/baddest directional antenna I would be able to pick up the Boston/Manchester, NH local DTV signals?

WRJ is about 90 miles NNW from Boston/Manchester. I seem some of these antennas that say they pull from 120 miles away.

If cost were not an issue, do you think I should try this? Cost really isn't an issue, but I'd like to spend less than $1,000,000 on this thing :)

Let me know your thoughts.

Casey

Originally posted by caseyathompson
Well, no body has posted in here for a month. So I'd like to see if anything has changed.

Just a little background. I live in White River Junction, VT (05001), and have pretty much no OTA reception of any channels. WNNE (WPTZ) SAYS they have a tower just 15 miles south from me that operates on channel 31, yet I can't pick it up with rabbit ears, or the old directional that is on top of the house we just bought.

I currently have Adelphia basic, and am looking to get the heck away from it. It is horrible. The PQ is just attrocious.

I too am waiting for the Burlington locals to go up on D*. Believe it or not, I live 70 miles from Burlington, yet I am in their DMA. The new satellite is up, but they are still working on getting it operational, and the 72.4 bird they are trying to lease from Canada is still in the approval process at the FCC. So we're talking months before we see those locals.

So, here is my delimna: Do you think that if I were to put up the biggest/baddest directional antenna I would be able to pick up the Boston/Manchester, NH local DTV signals?

WRJ is about 90 miles NNW from Boston/Manchester. I seem some of these antennas that say they pull from 120 miles away.

If cost were not an issue, do you think I should try this? Cost really isn't an issue, but I'd like to spend less than $1,000,000 on this thing :)

Let me know your thoughts.

Casey

Hi Casey,

I used to monitor this thread but haven't for a while. I live in Bradford, Vt, about 25 miles North of you, on I-91.

I have Dish Network and they've had the Vermont locals for a while now. They come through very clear but it's still SD and I don't think any of them will be offering any HD anytime soon. We did just get TNT in HD yesterday and it looks great.

I had talked to the station engineer for WMTW a few months ago and they we're suppossed to be starting to send a digital signal this Summer. WNNE did say they will go digital (from Mt Ascutney) but not sure when.

I think for us Fox & UPN will be the problems. I also get CBS HD with Dish Network (shhhhhhhhhhh - not sure how).

How'd you make out with that $ 1 m anntenna ? :-)
WaltinVt

Originally posted by waltinvt
Hi Casey,

I used to monitor this thread but haven't for a while. I live in Bradford, Vt, about 25 miles North of you, on I-91.

I have Dish Network and they've had the Vermont locals for a while now. They come through very clear but it's still SD and I don't think any of them will be offering any HD anytime soon. We did just get TNT in HD yesterday and it looks great.

I had talked to the station engineer for WMTW a few months ago and they we're suppossed to be starting to send a digital signal this Summer. WNNE did say they will go digital (from Mt Ascutney) but not sure when.

I think for us Fox & UPN will be the problems. I also get CBS HD with Dish Network (shhhhhhhhhhh - not sure how).

How'd you make out with that $ 1 m anntenna ? :-)
WaltinVt

WEll, I went to the local RatShack and picked up one of their Big UHF/VHF antennas for $45 plus their pre amp. I can get WNNE in perfectly clear (well a clear as analog can be) and went with DirecTV.

We qualified for Distants ABC/CBS/FOX and get WNNE of antenna for now.

I spoke with someone at WNNE (sorry can't remember his name) and he claims that they have all the equipment in and should be live with HD by the end of the summer/early fall.

When that happens, I'll be getting an HD Tivo and life will be grand again. I'm just happy to be getting rid of Adelphia.

I had also tried Dish, but could not get over the horrible PQ of the locals (Adelphia was better IMO) and having come from a Tivo, I could not get used to their 522.

So, I am happy, my wife is happy... life is back to normal for us :)

Casey

All northern Vermont High Def enthusiasts....new news!

Tonight the Mount Mansfield Transmitter relocation committee presented their plans for the HD needed digital upgrades to members of the Underhill Planning Board. The committee is comprised of folks from several of the local broadcasters; it seems to be headed by WCAX (CBS) people; from what I could discern the station engineer and manager were present. A reporter was also attending aand I expect components herein will be published soon in the Burlington Free Press. However I also stayed after the meeting and asked several questions. In summary:

1. The transmitter & facilities rebuild plans have been moving slowly forward for years. Finally there seems to be agreement with the state and towns and they expect a sucessful act 250 permitting process starting in about 1 month with granting hopefully in early 2005. They would then rebuild the Mansfield facilities starting in summer 2005; they would not be complete until the fall of 2006 due to the short season (the mountain is only "open" from about may to october for heavy traffic).

2. The rebuild actually will enable transmitter facilities for ALL regional broadcasters incl NBC and Fox. One stop shopping in essence.

3. The final mountaintop will have 3 towers and will be asthetically improved as compared to current. Tower max height is 165' under the 200' FAA "you must now add a red light" criteria. Apparently Howard Dean mandated that Mansfield would never have lights on top. Note that during the transition when both analog and DTV are being broadcast there will be twice the towers....

4. The WCAX folks revealed that they have been building their studio infrastructure to be HD ready by this fall. While they do not yet have HD cameras they will shoot news etc in 16:9 widescreen and manage commericals as well. The other broadcasters are apparently far behind and have not done much to start down the HD path. The WCAX activity is important because....

5. They also mentioned that Adelphia has approached them to run their CBS HD feed (and all the above 16:9 stuff) this FALL to supply local cable. In other words Adelphia is concerned that the imminent Directv Burlington local add will further erode their market share (currently about 55% down from 63)..and so the notion is to add something that satellite would NOT have..namely local CBS HD. Finally they mentioned that there were some isssues to close but they had installed the links to run the signals over to Adelphia...

6. Unfortunately it would not appear that NBC FOX or ABC would be as close to doing this due to their further behind status. Apparently Vermont PBS is on Adelphia now (I have not tried; I pull Mountain Lake PBS off northern NY OTA right now).

7. In polling WCAX on the impending satellite attempt to broadcast white area HD CBS, NBC, CBS they were against this due to the encroachement on their turf.

There were other minor points; in close they felt they would be sucessful with this timeline...but as evident from this timeline Vermont is in a race for DEAD LAST state to enable HD.

Keep the faith!

From the Burlington FreePress: 8/26/04

Mount Mansfield tower plan outlined

cc9.2;By Eve Thorsen
Correspondent

Plans for new communication towers atop Mount Mansfield will eventually mean less intrusive structures against the skyline than exist now. That was the message members of the Mount Mansfield Co-Location Association brought to Underhill residents this week.

The association outlined the final plans for WCAX, Vermont ETV and WVNY to add towers for digital telecommunications.

Three towers send analog signals for television broadcasts from the mountain's summit: a 300-foot WVNY tower and two towers less than 200 feet high belonging to WCAX and Vermont ETV. The WCAX tower went up in 1954; ETV in 1967; and WVNY in 1968.

The plan calls for three new narrow towers about 165 feet high that would be clustered and visually aligned. The old towers would remain until December 2006 or until 85 percent of Vermont households have digital television sets, whichever is later, then they would be removed.

Digital broadcast towers are needed for the new wave of televisions, which offer high-definition images.

"This project has taken a very long time in terms of negotiations. The deadline to be on air was May 2002 so we're way late," said Peter Martin, a member of the association who made Tuesday's presentation. Martin is general manager of WCAX.

The association was formed in the early 1980s when television and radio companies began discussing new communication towers at the summit of Mount Mansfield.

Members include representatives of broadcast companies such as Vermont ETV and WCAX and the University of Vermont, one of the area's major landowners, and members of state departments including the Agency of Natural Resources.

The proposal was greeted with approval by the few Underhill residents who attended the meeting.

"I think it's going to be a big improvement," said Betty Moore, who has lived in the town since 1967. "They've worked very hard to keep the towers short and to make minimal impact."

That sentiment was echoed by Will Simonelli, who moved to Underhill five years ago.

"I was concerned it was going to be one large tower," he said. "I think they did a very good job with this proposal."

The plan for new towers became controversial in the late 1990s, when concerns surfaced that plants and animals would be disrupted and that any new development could degrade Mount Mansfield's scenic skyline.

Residents on Tuesday were pleased to see that the new plan consolidates the communications towers in one small area. Landscape architect Terry Boyle, who has been working on the project, presented a series of digital images that showed a much clearer skyline once the old towers are removed.

Martin said the association is applying for a state land-use permit under Act 250 and hopes to have that permit in place by January. Act 250 is the state development-control law.

The project to build the new towers would take two construction seasons.

In the first year, builders would work on the foundation for the towers and for an expanded WCAX building that would hold the new transmitting equipment for the television stations.

The following year the towers and transmission lines would be put in place so digital broadcasts could begin in the late summer of 2006.

I posted this info a few days before the Burlington Free Press article in the thread "Northern Vermont High Def Update" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438387&highlight=vermont.)

I hope I did that right

I was at the meeting; there were several additional details regarding HD in Burlington I was able to discern in questioning the folks present.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vermonter
[B]All northern Vermont High Def enthusiasts....new news!

This sounds like good news for the future. Maybe the Luddites here can finally be satisfied. My question now would be what about the approval that is required from "Industry Canada." An ETV engineer told me a while ago that they were the big hold up.

Steve

This sounds like good news for the future. Maybe the Luddites here can finally be satisfied. My question now would be what about the approval that is required from "Industry Canada." An ETV engineer told me a while ago that they were the big hold up.

Steve

Originally posted by indy2vt
From the Burlington FreePress: 8/26/04

Mount Mansfield tower plan outlined

cc9.2;By Eve Thorsen
Correspondent

Plans for new communication towers atop Mount Mansfield will, <snip.....> so digital broadcasts could begin in the late summer of 2006.

Per this:
"NAB: 99.7 Percent of U.S. Households Reached by Digital Television Signals from 1,292 Local DTV Station"
(ATSC Forum)
http://www.atscforum.org/pr/PR-040825-NABBrazil.pdf

Apparently Burlington is currently part of the .3% of the nation that doesn't do digital yet and they're talking "late summer of 2006" (if things stay on track) ?!

If there ever was a more compelling example of the need for new SHVIA regulations, I don't know what it would be.

Arn't these the same stations that deny waivers and don't want you to receive a digital signal from anywhere else ? They don't plan to broadcast in digital until over 2 years after 97% of the rest of the country and yet they (under the wings of the NAB) don't want you to have any other alternative to receive that signal.

I think all 6 of us HDTV owners in Vermont should start a protest.

WaltinVt

Not sure what that means...the Canadians hold cards here? That issue was not mentioned in either the meeting or in my Q & A after. Sorry if I seem ignorant....thanks.

Walt;

It was CLEAR that WCAX opposed waivers or the current legislation in congress to allow satellite to broadcast HD national feeds into areas such as ours.

Frankly I agree and am considering how I can obtain these feeds..hence I am watching carefully the upcoming HD national feed data from Directv.

Guys,
I think that most broadcast TV stations would love to be able to get out their signal to all of us woodchucks out here in the hinterlands. Most of us can't get cable anyway.
I am pretty sure that the second message in this thread dated 09-23-03 from foxfan is true. The biggest problem is the Enviro-Gov 501(c)(3) opposition. We can't do anything in Vermont without kissing the Conservation Law Foundation's ass first.

Steve

One of the versions of the new SHVIA legislation (ref Ensign Bill) should be going to the senate floor soon and it contains some new stuff about digital white areas that could help areas like ours get HDTV from satellite.

The NAB and local broadcast affilliates are lobbying full force against it, so if enough voters don't get on the horn and make some noise, it will probably get defeated or at least watered down.

http://www.digitaltransitioncoalition.org/digital/


WaltinVt

Originally posted by husker_pick
Guys,
I am pretty sure that the second message in this thread dated 09-23-03 from foxfan is true.


Pretty much, except the time-frame is now a year behind the date I originally posted. Construction will only begin in summer of 2005 and be completed in summer of 2006.

I just wish SOMETHING could be done to have the construction completed in one summer instead of two. El Niño maybe???

Originally posted by foxfan
Pretty much, except the time-frame is now a year behind the date I originally posted. Construction will only begin in summer of 2005 and be completed in summer of 2006.

I just wish SOMETHING could be done to have the construction completed in one summer instead of two. El Niño maybe???

Nothing speeds up production more than competition - in any enterprise.

The coalition of the "un-willing" in Burlington has temporarily narrowed the threat of competition by virtue of "combining" their efforts. If just one of the network affiliate up there was ready or even close to being ready to transmit in full power digital, you can bet the '06 ETA would be as unacceptable to the rest of them as it to us.

The unexpected fly in their molasses is the possibility that congress may decide to let satellite provide HD distant nets to anyone not able to get digital locally. This is why those local affiliates pay big money to the NAB and the NAB pays big money to lobby congress against any legislation that will benefit satellite viewers.

WaltinVt

Good point. Keep in mind though that there IS an HD affiliate in the market (WCFE-DT 38). The only problem is that PBS isn't exactly BIG competition...

During the meeting I attended the engineer described the complexity of performing construction on top of Mansfield; they are restricted in the amount of area they can disturb due to the rare alpine species in the area; they must use special considerations when moving the rock and other materials (i.e., build slides to carry the rock etc), and the mountain road is only open to heavy construction from May to October.

Regarding WCFE: I only get a weak signal due to the presumably low power they are using..heck they just expanded their broadcast time to most of the day a few weeks ago.

Originally posted by vermonter
During the meeting I attended the engineer described the complexity of performing construction on top of Mansfield; they are restricted in the amount of area they can disturb due to the rare alpine species in the area; they must use special considerations when moving the rock and other materials (i.e., build slides to carry the rock etc), and the mountain road is only open to heavy construction from May to October.

Regarding WCFE: I only get a weak signal due to the presumably low power they are using..heck they just expanded their broadcast time to most of the day a few weeks ago.

I'm not sure if PBS comes under all the same rules as commerical networks but I believe the FCC has recently imposed new mandates that will force stations to increase transmission power this year.

WaltinVt

Hey WaltinVT...you have a PM. Thanks.

Originally posted by vermonter
Not sure what that means...the Canadians hold cards here? That issue was not mentioned in either the meeting or in my Q & A after. Sorry if I seem ignorant....thanks.

Yup... anytime a signal crosses (or has potential too) the Canadian border, IC gets involved. They're just protecting their "space" too.

Casey

I emailed WCAX about their HD station and this is the reply I got back:

The agreement is completed and signed. We are currently feeding a HD signal to Adelphia on a test basis. Our hope -- both Adelphia and us -- is that we'll be on cable systems late this week, most likely Friday. That is, however, subject to any technical kinks that might develop on either their end or ours.

We will be feeding the full CBS HDTV service. Our news and other local programming, but not syndicated programs like "Everyone Loves Raymond", will be in 16 x 9 format. All locally originated programming, regardless of format, will be upconverted to run on HDTV sets.

so once again the locals and adelphia are teaming up to preserve their monopoly. Boy am I glad I don't deal with either of them anymore. I finally got rid of my cable modem for DSL and get my HD networks from D*.

For years the locals and Adelphia have teamed up to keep us from getting programming from any other source.

Are you in Vermont and if so do you get CBS-HD, ABC-HD, NBC-HD and Fox-HD with DirectTV?

You really can't blame Adelphia and CBS for this one. Blame the environmentalist who wouldn't let them build the new Digital tower on Mt. Mansfield.

Yes I live in vermont. Currently D* only has NBC and CBS HD, fox is on the way soon.

Threads Merged

I don't agree. I already have to pay adelphia ~ $17 just for analog; its 12 channels of garbage. Some channels are very bad.

To watch HD I then need to rent a digital cable box at $7.95 MORE a month..so I have to spend $ 25 a month for 13 channels? Note renting the box gives me nothing more..everything else is part of the digital packages which cost even more.

I think setting up Directv is far cheaper in the end...and and you can get more if you "move" to the right address.

So the plan is to move and get out rabbit ears and dump adelphia. It would be better if we had OTA but 2 years is two years.

WaltInVT,

Who is the gentleman you spoke with at WNNE? I haven't heard anything recently and I seem to be missing his contact info.

If I can track him down, I'll give him a call and see what the status is.

Last I spoke to him, it should be about this time frame.

Strange that WNNE may be the first "Network" DTV broadcaster in VT and it's not even located near a large population base.

Casey

Originally posted by caseyathompson
WaltInVT,

Who is the gentleman you spoke with at WNNE? I haven't heard anything recently and I seem to be missing his contact info.

If I can track him down, I'll give him a call and see what the status is.

Last I spoke to him, it should be about this time frame.

Strange that WNNE may be the first "Network" DTV broadcaster in VT and it's not even located near a large population base.

Casey

Casey,
Sorry took so long to reply - just noticed your post. The guy is:

Roger E. Rosendahl
Supervising engineer
WPTZ/WNNE TV
WNNE

His E-mail Address: rosendahl@hearst.com

This is a copy of the latest email I received on Oct-5:

Mr. Mather,

Here is the current status .

The antenna is mounted on the tower.

The transmission line is run to the bottom of tower.

The Tower crew is working on getting transmission line into
building.

The transmitter is in storage at the base of the mountain.

The transmitter is scheduled to be brought up to the
transmitter site this Friday.

We have tentatively scheduled the installation of the
transmitter with the manufacturer for the first week of November.

The installation should take about two weeks.

We still have a microwave link to install between the north and
south peaks of Mt. Ascutney.

My best guess as to when you should start seeing WNNE-DT would
be mid December to the first of the year..

As for the HD content, we are planning to pass through the NBC
HD feed at first.

We hope to originate our own HD material in the future.

Hope this was helpful


Roger E. Rosendahl
Supervising engineer
WPTZ/WNNE TV
WNNE

I live in Vermont where OTA HD signals are a distant pipe dream. We may have some signals in 2006 but that's doubtful. I've been teased by the CBSHD feeds on Dish and DirectTV for sometime now but was always told that I'm not eligible to receive them since my local affiliate doesn't broadcast in HD. I just found out a few weeks ago that my local CBS station WCAX has teamed up with Adelphia Cable to offer CBSHD in my area. That's great but I hate Adelphia and had already made plans to switch to Dish a few days before this announcement was made. It's frustrating that I can get all of the same channels over Dish or Direct for 1/2 the money of Adelphia and with better PQ but I lose out on CBSHD. I called Adelphia and asked how much it would cost me per month if the only station I cared about receiving was CBSHD......Their answer $80.

I'm not up on the legal obstacles regarding locals and Satellite TV but I don't understand how they can allow the HD feed to Adelphia if it's not being broadcast OTA....how can they exclude Satellite providers and force people to use Adelphia? It's very frustrating that the channel is available on Dish except I'm not allowed to receive it. It's also very frustrating that the way I understand it is the only people authorized to receive locals and local HD via satellite are the ones in the local area who can get it OTA anyway. I would think that the people who have no way to receive it locally would be the ones allowed to receive it via satellite.

Because as far as the law is concerned, WCAX-HD is not the same as CBS-HD, if I am understanding your argument and situation correctly.

The CBS-HD programming on Adelphia is coming from WCAX and not WCBS. WCBS-DT is the station on Dish and DirecTV and, unless you're in a CBS owned-and-operated market (you're not), you can only view an out-of-market station via satellite with permission (waiver) from your local affiliate. Your local affiliate owns the exclusive broadcast rights to network programming in its coverage area. And that's defined as ANALOG coverage area. They own the rights regardless of the distribution method. And it appears they have a deal with Adelphia. You'll note on the website it says "exclusively." That tends to make me believe they sold it that way and plan to keep it that way. Fully their right. Nothing illegal about it.

If I were you, I'd blow an e-mail into hoganf@wcax.com and ask when they'll be doing HD over the air. And, if not, if you could have a waiver. Can't hurt to try.

Our HD ABC station was, for a time, only available on TWC until the ABC station finished the tower.

For all practical purposes our Fox HD signal is only available on TWC. The affliate is broadcasting the HD signal at a *whopping* 800 Watts. Only a very small area can receive it OTA.

Originally posted by DrDon
If I were you, I'd blow an e-mail into hoganf@wcax.com and ask when they'll be doing HD over the air. And, if not, if you could have a waiver. Can't hurt to try.

The new digital tower for all the broadcast stations in this area (they are going to share it) is not slated to begin construction until spring of 2005 with completion in summer of 2006. CBS is currently the only station with the hardware in place to broadcast HD.

Sucks.

Be specific with topic titles, see my edit.

WNNE out of Hartford/Hanover appears as if it will be broadcasting OTA sometime before the end of the year. Doesn't help you with CBS-HD, but it's a start.

Where are you located BTW?

Casey

Merged.

Just wanted to add to this thread as something weird happened today...

About once a week, I allow my TV to "re-aquire" OTA (analog) signals just to see what's out there.

Today It picked up Channel 17 which appears to retransmit UPN39 out of Burlington.

I also am picking up WMTW out of Auburn, ME on channel 27 EXTREMELY clear.

Is there some sort of weather phenominon going on currently? Did they suddenly put repeaters up?

I should add that my antenna is not on a rotator and is currently pointed to 220 degrees.

Any clues? I also wanted to see if anybody in the 05001 area is getting any new HD/DTV OTA signals?

Casey

PS. It may not be big news to some folks, but TV reception in my area is so horrible that these sort of things excite us all :)

Originally posted by caseyathompson
Just wanted to add to this thread as something weird happened today...

About once a week, I allow my TV to "re-aquire" OTA (analog) signals just to see what's out there.

Today It picked up Channel 17 which appears to retransmit UPN39 out of Burlington.

I also am picking up WMTW out of Auburn, ME on channel 27 EXTREMELY clear.

Is there some sort of weather phenominon going on currently? Did they suddenly put repeaters up?

I should add that my antenna is not on a rotator and is currently pointed to 220 degrees.

Any clues? I also wanted to see if anybody in the 05001 area is getting any new HD/DTV OTA signals?

Casey

PS. It may not be big news to some folks, but TV reception in my area is so horrible that these sort of things excite us all :)

Casey,

I'll try to run a scan later tonight or this weekend to see what I get. I'm at about 800 feet right near the Connecticut river, in Bradford, Vt (about 30 miles North of you).

So far I've only been able to pull in VtPbs Digital on 24 (24-1 thru 24-5 with 5 being the HD station) and NHPbs-Digital on 48 (11-1 & 11-2 one of them is HD). I do get some signal from WMUR-DT (59) but it won't lock in. It bounces around at about 40-49% with an occasional spike to 62%. I get similar results with 19 and 42 out of Boston but still no lock.

Hopfully with the FCC power mandate, they'll all be boosting power soon and maybe that will make the needed difference.

WaltinVt

Originally posted by DrDon
The CBS-HD programming on Adelphia is coming from WCAX and not WCBS. WCBS-DT is the station on Dish and DirecTV and, unless you're in a CBS owned-and-operated market (you're not), you can only view an out-of-market station via satellite with permission (waiver) from your local affiliate. Your local affiliate owns the exclusive broadcast rights to network programming in its coverage area. And that's defined as ANALOG coverage area. They own the rights regardless of the distribution method. And it appears they have a deal with Adelphia. You'll note on the website it says "exclusively." That tends to make me believe they sold it that way and plan to keep it that way. Fully their right. Nothing illegal about it.

If I were you, I'd blow an e-mail into hoganf@wcax.com and ask when they'll be doing HD over the air. And, if not, if you could have a waiver. Can't hurt to try.

If you get DirectTV and you "live" in Castleton,VT. 05735. You can get the DNS networks including HD without a waiver. It appears to be the only zip code in the state with ALL the DNS networks available. WCAX is a greedy pig with no interest in it's customers. When I "lived" in an area with a grade B signal WCAX told me that that if I bought a new 500 dollar rooftop antennae and had professionally mounted and positioned I "should" be able to get a "viewable" picture(good enough to understand commercials) which was all they were required to provide.

BTW, D* is supposed to be offerring SD locals starting tuesday in the area.

OK folks. There is a possibility that I am moving to VT next Spring. VT or CA. Don't ask me to explain because it's making my own head spin as it is. :eek: Anyway, the question: [B]What cable is provided in VT and what HD stations are included? Does anyone have Firewire for HD recording? What company provides the equipment (Motorola or Scientific Atlanta).

I am in CT right now with Adelphia/Telemedia and have two SA 3250HD boxes, both Firewire ACTIVE. I had to file an FCC complaint to get the Firewire. It took months of insanely hard work and persistence.

I had DISH and have no intention of going back. I have zero interest in DirecTV or Voom, so cable is my only option (plus OTA, as I am taking my still in the box VU-190XR rooftop antenna with me).

Thanks for your help.

Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
OK folks. There is a possibility that I am moving to VT next Spring. VT or CA. Don't ask me to explain because it's making my own head spin as it is. :eek: Anyway, the question: [B]What cable is provided in VT and what HD stations are included? Does anyone have Firewire for HD recording? What company provides the equipment (Motorola or Scientific Atlanta).

I am in CT right now with Adelphia/Telemedia and have two SA 3250HD boxes, both Firewire ACTIVE. I had to file an FCC complaint to get the Firewire. It took months of insanely hard work and persistence.

I had DISH and have no intention of going back. I have zero interest in DirecTV or Voom, so cable is my only option (plus OTA, as I am taking my still in the box VU-190XR rooftop antenna with me).

Thanks for your help.

Well I can answer some of your questions:

Cable: Generally only Adelphia is available. There are a couple of areas with small town cable operators, but very few and none of them have any HD. Adelphia has your basic 5 or 6 HD(plus one local HD channel(CBS) only on Adelphia) channels available for a rather high extra fee and of course and even more ridiculous monly box rental. As far as I know there are NO HD DVRs available. No idea if your modded boxes will work here or not. Also the first 100 channels of Adelphia are still ananlog andmost look like crap.

OTA: LOL... nothing until 2006. As stated above Adelphia is the exclusive carrier of the local CBS HD channel until the towers go up.

up here DirectTV is a much better deal than Adelphia and pretty much your only chance for HD networks if you "live" in the right area. And of course there is HD TIVO.

BTW, D* is supposed to be offerring SD locals starting tuesday in the area.

Damn-it!!! This will only make WCAX and WPTZ less likely to grant waivers!

I can't wait until the Senate resumes in Washington so that the digital white area bill can get passed and shoved in the face of Martin and Sands.

I have the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD (HD DVR) box through Adelphia. Got it back in August. Firewire and DVI are both disabled.

Martin was VERY clear when I spoke to him at the tower meeting; NO waivers period.

I too looked into Adelphia for HD but it was silly-expensive...
$8.00 alone for the box monthly not incl the other fees.

Foxfan..any update on HD broadcasts out of Montreal?

I just spoke to an engineer at the CBC and he told me that the CBC and SRC will be up and running by spring time. The 64-1 will be shut down a little bit before that to make room for the change.


i'm in Greenfield Park and the level for the 64-1 is 98% . the guy at cbc told me that the signal will me 10 times more powerful once everything is setup

Sounds like VT is behind the times. :( That's too bad.

Originally posted by gottahavit
OTA: LOL... nothing until 2006.

WNNE, NBC out of Hartford, Vt will be testing digital next month on channel 25. They'll be broadcasting from Mt Ascutney and sharing some of the Vt PTV facilities, which, by the way, is already doing HD (and it looks great). WNNE expects to be passing on all the national NBC HD feeds at first and then adding some of their own stuff later.

So there's 2 stations in the Connecticut River valley of Vt / NH.

As for the Burlington stations, they formed a cozy little coalition for tower construction purposes which seems to also provide a nice competition & FCC protection barrier for a few years, so who knows.

WaltinVt

Walt;

Ascutney (where the transmitters are) is ~ 80 miles from me in NW Vermont; I wonder if I would be able to pick them up. I think nowt; I am using just a radioshack antenna in the attic w/o any amplifier. Silver sensor? I really don't want to mount outside etc. I can get Mountain lake PBS which is 40 miles away up in NE NY. Just curious what you think...thanks!

PS Any notion on the power levels the PBS and WNNE folks are using?

Originally posted by vermonter
Walt;

Ascutney (where the transmitters are) is ~ 80 miles from me in NW Vermont; I wonder if I would be able to pick them up. I think nowt; I am using just a radioshack antenna in the attic w/o any amplifier. Silver sensor? I really don't want to mount outside etc. I can get Mountain lake PBS which is 40 miles away up in NE NY. Just curious what you think...thanks!

PS Any notion on the power levels the PBS and WNNE folks are using?

I'm getting a 80-90% signal from VtPBS Digital (channel 24.1 tjru 24.5 with 24.5 being their HD station). As for WNNE, they haven't actually started testing yet, so can't tell you.

I live about 45 miles north of Mt Ascutney in Bradford at about 800 feet.

I started out trying a Silver Sensor indoors - nothing, not even a quiver. Then I stuck it on a 10 foot pole and tried different spots in my yard and was able to lock a few times but never at more than 65% and got a lot of pixalization. Then I finally went to a Channel Master (Yagie type) with amp and rotor on my roof to get what I get now.

I also get some signal from WMUR in Manchester NH (59) and a couple of Boston stations (42 & 44) too but not enough to stay locked.

My guess (and that's all it is) would be, if you can pick up some signal activity with your S.S. outdoors, there may be a good chance you'd be able to get the Mt Ascutney stations with a real roof antenna & amp.

Good luck,
Walt

Well, we may all be OK now if this congressional bill does what the folks at the various forums are describing..the ability to get HD feeds off sat because our local stations are behind the times.

Now if that HD Tivo would only drop in price....

Discovery HD Theater popped up on Adelphia HD last night

Originally posted by vermonter
Well, we may all be OK now if this congressional bill does what the folks at the various forums are describing..the ability to get HD feeds off sat because our local stations are behind the times.

Now if that HD Tivo would only drop in price....

I got D* to give me 150 dollar credit towards the hdtivo rather than providing local compatible HD reciver to replace my TS160.


talking to retention is always worth a shot.

BTW the HD tivo is an amazing toy!!!

Bohbot16; Might I ask what your Adelphia bill is? I just can't see twisting over when I already have all the sat equipment plus 2 SD tivos....the last time I called adelphia the bill was much more than sat...after including the HD capability and tivo ability.

Do they have HD DVR capability yet? Thanks.

be careful of Adelphia's HD DVR, last I heard they had abox that was an HD reciever and a DVR, but only recorded HD in SD.

basic+expanded+digital+digital plus+4 movie channel paks+on demand+hd channels+dvr+high speed internet w/ cable modem rental = 140/mo

yes thats a lot of money
yes i get that much use out of it
yes the dvr records in hd (or the compression isn't visible to me, but is definitely much higher res than sd)

Anybody hear anything about WNNE? It was supposed to go into testing, but I don't have an HD STB yet to check it out.

Originally posted by caseyathompson
Anybody hear anything about WNNE? It was supposed to go into testing, but I don't have an HD STB yet to check it out.

Casey,
This is latest I've heard from WNNE:

"Walt,
Good to get some feed back, I was at the mall the other day and
asked the salesperson about DTV and they had no clue that there was such a
thing as over the air DTV! I guess that will change as more of us convet
to digital and promote that fact.

Just curious as to what type of antenna you are using? set top or outdoor?
Wondering if you have had any issues with cars/ people moving around
causing reception problems?

We are planning to pass NBC HD when HD programming is available, and WNNE
upconverted NTSC when it is not.

Have not heard of other stations in the group having any aspect problems,
but thanks for the heads up.

We have the antenna mounted, line run , tested the line and antenna with
manufacturer on tuesday/ wed .

Scheduled to have transmitter manf. up first part of december to do
install. Not sure when we will be transmitting full time.

I will let you know, but keep in touch.

Have a good Thanksgiving,

Roger"


I usually run a signal check for channel 25 a couple time a week with my Dish 811 but nothing so far. I get a 90% signal from the VtPBS-HD off of Mt Ascutney, so WNNE should come in great when it happens.

WaltinVt

When I do a check of my address in Williston on www.checkhd.com, it tells me that WCFE-DT is broadcasting... I don't have an antenna so I can't check, and their website doesn't seem to indicate that they are doing any digital broadcasting that I could find.

Can anyone confirm this? It's only PBS, but at least it would be SOMETHING....

WCFE-DT 38 has been on the air from quite sometime now.

I don't know what power they are broadcasting at exactly, but I'm getting a good 90% signal with an outdoor antenna just east of Montreal.

The channel remaps as 57.1 and 57.2.

.1 shows the PBS-HD channel while .2 shows a highly compressed digital simulcast of WCFE's regular channel.

To all Burlington-Plattsburgh residents: Has anyone been able to get HD DNS from DirecTV or Dish now that the new bill with the digital white area provision has passed?

HD Team;

Yes WCFE has been broadcasting full time for ~ 6 months. I am 45 miles out and using a radioshack $40 antenna in my attic w/o any amps and getting excellent signal.

Foxfan has the 57.1 and 57.2 setup correct.

There is NOTHING else I can pull in here near Burlington. WaltinVT down in central VT may have an update on the NBC affiliate down there; I think that will be a bit far for me.

Regarding Directv HD Walt and I have both called and tried and posted in the various satellite forums; no go. In fact its frustrating because no one knows how long it will be before we get the national feeds.

Anything new out of Canada?

Wish this thread was more active so it would be visible nearer the front of the list.

Anyway, the latest I've heard about WNNE HD is this:

Received 12/13/04:

Walt,
The install is complete, they are going to do the FCC proof today .
We are still waiting on the encode gear to arrive. Hopefully we will see it
soon.

I will keep you updated. Yes you are the lone person interested in this so
far, But keep in touch it feels good to know at least someone will be
watching!

roger

Received 12/29/04:

"Walt,
We are still waiting on encode /transport gear. Delivery time has
slipped again, should see it this week.

You may see us soon . hoping for first part of jan.

Will keep you updated.

roger"

So they are pretty good at keeping me updated and it sounds like we may see something soon. Too bad it won't help with the Superbowl or Daytona 500.

As near as I can see, many Vermonters are NOT going to be allowed any legal options to receive HD signals for a long time to come unless the FCC decides to issue something.

The bill that was hyped to help rural area residents with no OTA options for digital programming is doing absolutely nothing for us - in fact there are many stories of viewers actually losing channels.

WaltinVt

Just curious if anyone has checked into the legality of what WCAX is doing with their HD signal by only making it available to a small segment of Vermont viewers ?

Maybe I don't understand all the issues but if it's available to Adelphia, why isn't it also available to Charter or any other cable company in the state or any of the satellite providers ?

Seems a little counter- productive to this whole digital transition thing to me.

WaltinVt

Great news on WCFE - sorry I didn't know before! I'll pick up a UHF antenna on my way home from work and check to see if I can pick it up here in Williston.

On the networks, yes it's really not a good story. FYI, a year or so ago using the DNS rules I was able to give a service address for a camp I have up in the NE Kingdom and received WCBS-HD on my Dish 811. Not 100% kosher, but it is my property, and i COULD actually have that as my service address.... I was nervous when 2005 came along with the new DNS rules, but i seem to have been grandfathered in and it still works.

Unfortunately, it also means that my only network options are CBS via Dish... and CBS via Adelphia... No options for ABC, NBC, Fox, WB, UPN.

Now DirecTV has all 4 majors, but because we receive LIL on DirecTV now, we cannot get Distant HD unless we "move" to a big DMA. I'm not willing to do that, but it's bloody bizarre that is the only way to get more majors here.

Oh yes - one other thought... I know Dish carries BOTH NBC-5 out of BTV, and NBC-31 out of the Connecticut River Valley as they are both in the Burlington DMA... Once 31 goes HD, any idea if it's possible that Adelphia out of Burlington could carry the HD feed out of WNNE-31?

Sure would be nice, but even though both NBC channels seem to be co-managed/owned I'm not betting on it.

I'm still confused about this WCAX-HD thing.

Are they actually broadcasting HD from their transmitter or is it still analog to the general public and a special HD feed to Adelphia and nowhere else ? How can they do that and why ?

Walt

WCAX is part of the Mount Mansfield alliance of all of the networks broadcast from Burlington (including NBC who actually broadcasts their analog signal out of Plattsburg).

What WCAX has done SOMEHOW is decide that in lieu of waiting for the tower situation to work itself out is to pipe their HD feeds directly to Adelphia and create a cable-only CBS HD feed.

I am not sure how this works legally, but with an FCC extension to wait until the tower is built prior to OTA broadcasts, I'm at least thankful that they are doing SOMETHING.

As far as I can tell, the other local stations (WFFF Fox, WPTZ NBC, WVNY ABC, and VPT) have no intention to do anything in digital or high-def until the Mt. Mansfield tower is built. Nor have I even heard with confidence that the construction will actually start this Spring.

Originally posted by sinnfein07
WCAX is part of the Mount Mansfield alliance of all of the networks broadcast from Burlington (including NBC who actually broadcasts their analog signal out of Plattsburg).

What WCAX has done SOMEHOW is decide that in lieu of waiting for the tower situation to work itself out is to pipe their HD feeds directly to Adelphia and create a cable-only CBS HD feed.

I am not sure how this works legally, but with an FCC extension to wait until the tower is built prior to OTA broadcasts, I'm at least thankful that they are doing SOMETHING.

As far as I can tell, the other local stations (WFFF Fox, WPTZ NBC, WVNY ABC, and VPT) have no intention to do anything in digital or high-def until the Mt. Mansfield tower is built. Nor have I even heard with confidence that the construction will actually start this Spring.

It would be one thing if WCAX was offering their HD signal to all providers (at the same price) but Adelphia was the only one taking it.

IMHO it's totally contrary to the scope of the digital transition mandate.

What will happen if every station does this - only makes their digital / HD signal exclusively available to one particular provider while still being allowed to provide their analog signal to everyone else ? At the same time, federal law denies satellite from selling the distant HD signal. This is insane, with the consumer being the loser.

Maybe it would be different if there was true, fair competition among all the providers in any given area but there's not. Only one cable company per area; WCAX is NOT O & O by CBS in this DMA, so satellite can't provide the distant HD signal; WCAX is NOT providing this HD signal over the air.

Someone should ask the FCC about this. I think any station that has a digital signal but only wants to provide it to one source should be forced to give up their analog signal. Otherwise this digital transition is going to be total chaos.

I can certainly understand that this would be frustrating if you were in a non-Adelphia area, but I'm not sure what other options there are for WCAX without a tower.

Adelphia and WCAX are just across town from each other, so I'm sure it's trivial for them to pipe the signal to them. Without OTA, I'm not sure how other distant cable companies would receive the signal.

I've got to give the station credit where credit is due - they have even upgraded their studio to HD for the news.

Again, I understand everything you've said - it's a raw deal for consumers in any market where the stations are so far behind, and this cable-only stopgap clouds things. However, the alternative seems to be for WCAX to simply sit and wait like all of the other stations, and I think that stinks even more.

Originally posted by sinnfein07
I can certainly understand that this would be frustrating if you were in a non-Adelphia area, but I'm not sure what other options there are for WCAX without a tower.

Adelphia and WCAX are just across town from each other, so I'm sure it's trivial for them to pipe the signal to them. Without OTA, I'm not sure how other distant cable companies would receive the signal.

I've got to give the station credit where credit is due - they have even upgraded their studio to HD for the news.

Again, I understand everything you've said - it's a raw deal for consumers in any market where the stations are so far behind, and this cable-only stopgap clouds things. However, the alternative seems to be for WCAX to simply sit and wait like all of the other stations, and I think that stinks even more.

Yea, I don't know the technical aspects of what their doing (maybe someone will jump in that does) and probably if it were Charter or I could get Adelphia, I'd have similar feelings.

I don't think anyone would mind if there was an alternate option available to the people that can't take advantage of the Adelphia / WCAX HD deal and the only reason there isn't is that the law is preventing it.

WCAX is choosing to make their HD signal available only to a select customer base (and don't say it isn't a choice because it really is) while at the same time receiving protection from anyone providing a competing HD signal. All this and they're still allowed to retain their analog signal which also has protection from competition.

You say "you have to give them credit for doing something" and to some extent I agree but do you realize the implications this could have if it becomes normal practice with other affiliates ?

What if WNNE down here cut an exclusive deal with TCI for NBCHD and Charter cuts a deal with say WMUR for ABCHD and some other company for FoxHD? We could end up with all these little exclusive deals where any given customer only has access to maybe One HD channel and no chance for any others. All while satellite competition is being held back by the arm of the FCC and there's really no incentive for the affiliate to ever do full power digital OTA.

Originally posted by Waltinvt

What if WNNE down here cut an exclusive deal with TCI for NBCHD and Charter cuts a deal with say WMUR for ABCHD and some other company for FoxHD? We could end up with all these little exclusive deals where any given customer only has access to maybe One HD channel and no chance for any others. All while satellite competition is being held back by the arm of the FCC and there's really no incentive for the affiliate to ever do full power digital OTA.

I agree completely. IF WCAX or any station used cable carriage or some other arrangement as a way to delay/defer their OTA broadcasting I would be raising a BIG stink.

I just see this a little bit differently (maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses though....) I see WCAX trying to do something above and beyond the other stations while they ALL drive towards the OTA plan on Mt. Mansfield.

If we start to hear anything about slips on the antenna build I would change my tune. I really hope that doesn't happen. We've waited more than long enough.

Originally posted by sinnfein07
I agree completely. IF WCAX or any station used cable carriage or some other arrangement as a way to delay/defer their OTA broadcasting I would be raising a BIG stink.

I just see this a little bit differently (maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses though....) I see WCAX trying to do something above and beyond the other stations while they ALL drive towards the OTA plan on Mt. Mansfield.

If we start to hear anything about slips on the antenna build I would change my tune. I really hope that doesn't happen. We've waited more than long enough.

I guess the more I objectivly think about it, the more I realize my gripe is not really so much with WCAX - they quite possibly could be trying to move beyond the restraints of the tower schedule in the best way they can. IF that's true, most likely they'll find a way to also get their HD signal on other cable companies and satellite.

I guess what really upsets me is that the new legislation was supposed to help us rural area people that have NO options for digital and we seem to be the ones being restricted the most.

People in O & O now have access to all 4 distant HD nets by "D", yet O & O areas tent to be the areas where most viewers have other options like OTA or a big cable companies that are doing HD.

Here in Vermont, none of our affiliates have even begun digital OTA and who knows when it will happen, most of the cable companies show no signs of ever doing digital, and we, by law can NOT get the distant HD nets imported by satellite.

It doesn't even make any sense. Everyone says how there's so few of us. So what's the big deal then if they let "D" give them to us too ?

WaltinVt

Walt, I have to chime in here and just say thanks for keeping us up-to-date as far as WNNE is concerned. Believe it or not, I've contacted them and heard nothing back. So... at least they're talking to somebody.

If you want to get mad at anybody, get mad at the Vermont Legislators and Voters. The reason all of this is delayed is Act 250, Current Use and all of that loverly other stuff that the old-timers voted in so they could keep their 1000 acre "horse" farms clean from "outsiders."

I'm amazed at the ass-backwardsness of some of the people of vermont. Granted, I'm generalizing, but the same people that voted for these restrictive laws are the ones that are now screaming about how government infringes upon their freedom. Hell, look at Killington... nuff said.

You could also partially blame Nielsen Media and the FCC for their allocation of DMAs. Having worked with both of them in regards to DMAs, I can guarantee that the people ultimately making the decisions have no clue as to how Rural America works.

Sure... when it comes to Primetime TV, if I can get a clear signal, I don't care who it comes from. But when it comes to "local" news, a "city" 70 miles away from where I live has no interest and does not pertain to me. I could care less that the BHS Seahorses lost yet another game. Yet, the FCC protects that for the broadcasters. Now... to be fair, WNNE does broadcast some local news... an entire 5 minutes a night. 2 minutes for weathers... a 30 second ad and 2.5 minutes of "local" highlights. Usually from Rutland or NE Kingdom. How this is truely local is beyond me.

I guess the only option at this point is to move from VT... oh well

Well... if you managed to to make it this far, let me apologize for my rant. This is starting to become one of my biggest annoyances.

The biggest headache when dealing with this is that nobody will come forward and "complain" to their congressman. I honestly don't know how many HD TV owners there are in VT, but based upon what I am seeing in the computer industry, I would guess that HD sets have a fairly large penetration rate.

Thoughts? What do you think us mere mortals who want HD can do? Let's get this thread active. Start talking about legal recourses, petitions, talking to the local goverment... whatever you think would help, lay it out.

Thanks again... VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!! (ok a bit drastic, but let's take back our TV)

Casey

I hear you Casey & sinnfein07(hey,what should I call you ?) .

I emailed letters Sunday to Vermont's 3 legislators and I encourage all of you to do the same.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

However my complaint is not so much with the Vermont environmental regulations, heck they've always been here and will always be an issue with any type of progress that requires a building permit.

My real issue is with the new legislation that was just signed. It was presented by politicians as something that was going to help the rural area satellite subscribers like us that could not get a digital network signal OTA. They all slapped themselves on the back saying how this would speed up the digital transition.

Even if the Mt Mansfield towers were up and at full power right now I couldn't get any of those signals and I suspect there are many others in Vt that won't be able to either. The point being that other than a change to digital, OTA isn't going to be any different than it's always been - there will always be many people that can't get the signal, just like there will always be many people that don't have access to cable. Of all the HDTV owners in Vermont, how many do you think have access to WCAX HD via Adelphia cable ?

I could go on and on about how the politicians and high level executives have put the screws to the little people on this particular issue but I'm tired of explaining it. Besides I've spouted off enough in other threads, so my feelings are out there.

I'll close by saying that IMHO the only thing that's going to help us up here now is if we all make a LOT of noise to our Congress people and the FCC. By doing that LOUD and OFTEN, we may be able to speed up the FCC creating the digital "white" area they're supposed to be doing. It's our only chance and Powell isn't about to do any more than he has to in that regards unless he gets a lot of pressure from the people and Congress.

Once the "white area" is official then we may have an option.

WaltinVt

The Vermont digital tv situation is so convoluted that it gives me a headache. Adelphia cable doesn't reach my house, which is south of Woodstock. They brought it to a pole about 200 yards from my house and stopped. I called and asked when they would reach me. They offered to bring it to my house for $5,000. (That is not a typo; though it is a farce. Adelphia brought the cable to several homes nearby at some significant cost and in the end no one subscribed.) Apparently PBS and NBC do OTA digital broadcasting from towers on the top of Mt Ascutney which is 10 miles southeast of us. Unfortunately, we live on the eastern slope of a big hill in the middle of the woods and can get no digital signal. We have VOOM, but of course VOOM does not have the networks. We have had Pegasus--now DirecTV--since it first came out and received the distant network feeds from them. Recently when I turned on the DirecTV to watch a PBS news program I found that it was no longer available to us. I called DirecTV and they said that since they now offer the "locals" from Burlington VT the PBS affiliate had declared that we could no longer receive the distant PBS feed. However, the other network affiliates had not ordered that we be cut off. Just Vermont PBS. (Lovely treatment by a non-profit organization.) For a fee Directv offered to sell us all the Burlington locals. I indicated that while I visit Burlington perhaps once every other year I might be interested. But then the CSR added that to get the Burlington locals I would need to add a second satellite dish and a new receiver. Bizarre! Also, there was the possibility that I would lose the New York national feeds from the other networks if I took the Burlington locals. They were not entirely sure about that. Since I am more interested in New York local news than in Burlington local news ( I spend more time in NYC than Burlington) I decided to decline the offer. Later it occurred to me, after reading this forum, that if I had surrendered the Standard Definition distant network feeds I might have no access to the HD network programming since there is no way I can get Burlington OTA when it eventually starts digital broadcasting from Mt Mansfield and since DirecTV will probably take several years to have the bandwidth to broadcast Burlington HD locals. So now I am without PBS--a bummer--and I am hesitating to spend the money on a DirecTV HD dish and receiver, since it occurs to me that if PBS Burlington can order us to be cut off from national feeds, isn't it likely that the other Burlington networks will follow suit? It seems to me that Congressmen from Vermont need to do a better job of watching out for the interests of rural constituents during the digital transition.

"we may be able to speed up the FCC creating the digital "white" area they're supposed to be doing"

unfortunately the new legislation has made things worse. The so call "digital white area" will not help at all. If your provider offers you your local channels in digital format(NOT HD) then you are not in the "white area" and you are no longer eligible for DNS. AND since the only 2 providers that offer HD dns also offer our locals in Digital format we can never qualify.

I'm quite lucky at the moment since before the new legislation I activated 3 of the 4 DNS channels and apparently am grandfathered with D* though I can never get the 4th. I also get locals, but watch only one show that is not on the HD networks.

Our only hope short of a change in legislation, is for the locals to get the towers up and for the providers to start carrying those signals, however aside from adelphia that's also problematic since it appears Dish is in serious bandwith trouble, VOOM has no interest in networks and though D* will probably carry the HD channels when they come up, there are going to be new hardware requirements to get any of these(My HDTivo is an important member of the family).

Wow - I did not realize this about the new white area legislation. Are you saying that just because our locals are available over Satellite in a crappy digital format (overly compressed signal received from analog OTA antennas...) that we are NOT considered a digital white area??

I had thought that with no OTA digital broadcast from the local networks that we would certainly be a digital white area for the majors until the Mt Mansfield broadcasts began. This means I was counting on getting access to Distant HDs via DirecTV once the FCC got it's act together... I think you are saying that's not going to happen?

as I understand it that is correct.

IF there was a provider that did not offer locals, but did off HD DNS then you could get their DNS but if your provider offers your locals in digital then you do not qualify. If you got to the DNS qualification page you will see that D* says that they can no longer off DNS to ANY market that they offer LIL to.

I'm just hoping my current grandfather condition does not change.

Originally posted by gottahavit
"we may be able to speed up the FCC creating the digital "white" area they're supposed to be doing"

unfortunately the new legislation has made things worse. The so call "digital white area" will not help at all. If your provider offers you your local channels in digital format(NOT HD) then you are not in the "white area" and you are no longer eligible for DNS. AND since the only 2 providers that offer HD dns also offer our locals in Digital format we can never qualify. <snip>..........

This is not true.

For one thing, currently no satellite providers offer any locals in digital that I'm aware of. "D" has stated they do intend to start offering some in the top markets - possibly as soon as this Spring.

You may be confusing the fact that satellite encodes and transmits all their signals in a "digital" bitstream from their satellite to your receiver but that is not the same as a signal that originates as digital, it's strictly the way they pass the signal to their customers.

Secondly, when locals do start providing a digital signal to satellite and satellite starts offering them to customers, then the case for distant digitals for the most part arguably goes away.

Although there's nothing that says an affiliate has to broadcast in HD - only digital, most affiliates will likely at least pass on their network feeds in HD because that's what the networks provide.

There are regulations built into the law that essentially limit how an affiliate or a satellite provider can "degrade" the signal. Besides competition from other stations will probably assure that the locals pass on what the network is providing in both content and picture quality.

WaltinVt

well that does not appear to be the way DirectTV is interpreting the legislation since they are saying NO ONE who gets LIL can get DNS. While it would be nice if the interpretation was in regards to the originating signal, but I do not believe that is true and it is definitely not what D* is telling it's customers.

As for the signal degredation that is just completely wrong(though I wish it weren't). Right now D* is rebroadcasting several Local HD stations and several independent national networks, ALL of these signals are being seriously downgraded by D* as well as the other providers. The bitrate for the DNS HD networks(these are locals for NY,LA) are at about 1/2 the original bitrate on D*.

Maybe some contracts include clauses like that,but obviously very few if any currently do.

Originally posted by gottahavit
well that does not appear to be the way DirectTV is interpreting the legislation since they are saying NO ONE who gets LIL can get DNS. While it would be nice if the interpretation was in regards to the originating signal, but I do not believe that is true and it is definitely not what D* is telling it's customers.

I think one of the problems is the legislation is so confusing that both "D" & "E" are taking a conservative approach ("E" even more than "D") until some of the ambiguities are cleared up or the digital white area is clearly defined.

Originally posted by gottahavit
As for the signal degradation that is just completely wrong(though I wish it weren't). Right now D* is rebroadcasting several Local HD stations and several independent national networks, ALL of these signals are being seriously downgraded by D* as well as the other providers. The bitrate for the DNS HD networks(these are locals for NY,LA) are at about 1/2 the original bitrate on D*.

Maybe some contracts include clauses like that,but obviously very few if any currently do.

Yea, I wasn't very clear on that. We're all well aware that both "D" & "E" can and do really mess up a signal. What I was trying to say is that I think there are rules built in that stations must maintain certain power levels for their digital signals.

Are you sure these "local HD stations" are being passed to "D" as HD signals ? Even though they may be being transmitted OTA as HD, they may only be giving "D" an analog signal.

In the long run, competition and advertising demands will force the major networks to improve and their contracts with affiliates and carriers will reflect this.

Right now though the FCC needs to immediately define the digital white area and issue some clarifications and guidelines for carriers.

WaltinVt

Can someone explain to me kow the erp works. And why is there such a difference between stations. My concern is that i won't be able to capt the low powered ones(13,38).

Right now, i can capt the wcfe 38 (57.1, 57.2). Will i be ok with the WVNY at 10 kW?
I live 95 miles from Mt Mansfield and i have a 25 feet tower. No booster.

Taken fron the FCC site:
13 WVNY (ABC) 10 kW ERP
14 WPTZ (NBC) 650 kW ERP
32 WETK (PBS) 200 kW ERP
38 WCFE (PBS) 7,5 kW ERP
43 WFFF (FOX) 475 kW ERP
53 WCAX(CBS) 801 kW ERP

Thanks
yipikyer

WVNY is one that worries me. I've heard that apparently they have only been confirmed at 4.5kw since Industry Canada hasn't approved the 10kw level for channel 13 (since there is an analog channel 13 in Trois-Rivieres which is less than 200 miles away). As a result, they have a directional antenna reducing the signal to the north and north-east (supposedly they will be sure to reach Montreal though). I don't think it was too smart to get their allocation changed from 16 to 13 just to save on power costs... they will lose viewers at the same time.

Plus, I'm a little worried about adjacent channel interference from the analog channel 12 in Montreal. 2 and 6 end up making 3 and 5 unwatchable for me. Hope it won't affect digital...

Where do you live FoxFan? I live in Greenfield Park.

Longueuil, near the tunnel.

Aparently that the CBC and SRC are coming this spring. SRC will have 2 shows in HD!
Have you heard something ?

I spoke to someone from SRC last week who informed me that they should be up during early-mid March with temporary channel 19 and channel 20 transmitters from the CBC building.

you said that WVNY is going to be at 4.5kW. Is there any way we can find out what is the power of WCFE-DT (38) right now?

No. I tried calling their engineer last week but he wasn't there. It's hard to find out. They had licenses for 7.5kw, 60kw, and 100kw. I'm trying to figure out which one they're using right now.

Got a couple of emails from WNNE regarding the status of their digital conversion. Whatever happens, we can't say they haven't tried to keep us informed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt,
Sorry I haven't gotten back to you, it has been nuts.

We are still waiting on the ecode/upconversion equipment, as soon as we
have that we can start testing .

I am hopefull by the end of the month .

We will probably come up low power and increase gradually. when we get to
full power you should have a good signal, we are putting out more power
than VPT-DT.

Will let you know when we get a signal to the transmitter.

Roger

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt,
Forgot to address the NASCAR HD issue, as it stands now we are going
to take NBC HD whenever it is present.

That is why it is taking so long for the equipment, we wanted to be able to
switch between NBC and local programming cleanly.

we had expected to be able to do this with the equipment we had but, the
options were not in our model.

We had to regroup and attack the problem from a different direction.

We are also planning to pass Dolby 5.1 .

roger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has heard anything about any other OTA digital stations that might become receivable in Vermont, please post whatever info you have here. As near as I can tell those of us that can't digital signals OTA have been really shafted by this new legislation and both Satellite companies.

"D" has all the distant nets in HD now but mostly only O&O areas can get them. "E" is talking about putting up a temporary feed of the national Fox HD for the Super bowl but it too will only be available to O&O areas - the same thing they did for the NBC HD olympic feed last Summer.

I emailed our "big 3" in Congress about all this and Jefford's office actually called me. They seemed quite interrested that Vermonters that had no access to digital OTA signals were NOT being allowed to get them via satellite, yet viewers in O&O areas, that usually have cable & OTA options for digital WERE being allowed to get the distant HD feeds.

Any idiot can see that this is contrary to what that part of the legislation was intended to do. I'd suggest that anyone who cares about getting HD in Vermont or NH make a lot of noise to Congress and FCC right now. It might work to pressure the FCC into defining the "digital white area" sooner rather than later.
WaltinVt

If anyone is thinking of "moving" one recommended city is Washington D.C, since you would be eligible for HD DNS and their local channels on spotbeam tp18 cover our area for some reason. With that you would get 3PBSs, a UPN affiliate, and a dedicated WB affiliate (instead of a shared one on WFFF). Just make sure you're in the south part of the D.C. area so that Baltimore won't claim you to be in their Grade B contour.

I'm not thinking of "moving" though because I'm afraid to lose my grandfathered status for ABC and Fox when I move back to my current address.

Originally posted by foxfan
If anyone is thinking of "moving" one recommended city is Washington D.C, since you would be eligible for HD DNS and their local channels on spotbeam tp18 cover our area for some reason. With that you would get 3PBSs, a UPN affiliate, and a dedicated WB affiliate (instead of a shared one on WFFF). Just make sure you're in the south part of the D.C. area so that Baltimore won't claim you to be in their Grade B contour.

I'm not thinking of "moving" though because I'm afraid to lose my grandfathered status for ABC and Fox when I move back to my current address.

I actually moved from the DC DMA up to Vermont a little over a year ago. I actually tried this and it did not work. Without changing a single thing with my account, I set up the dish, aligned and got nothing at all.

I live in White River Junction. While the maps show that TP18 covers this area, I could never get a signal on it.

Of course, now I get a signal of 94 on TP18... so who knows what's up.

If anybody tries this and it works, I'd like to know.

Also, just make sure you don't get an address in Virginia as they will more than likely pass the Satellite Tax there. So either DC or southern maryland may work.

On the montreal side, CBC is up on channel 20(6-1). Test pattern only, but will begin broadcast feb. 21.

That's a beginning.....

Yipiker; Is it on 100% of the time? I'll try and acquire tonight when I get home..allbeit with my radioshack attic antenna and being in burlington VT...

I don't think you'll have much chance receiving it in Burlington for the time being. First, it's low-power. Second, it's being broadcast from a temporary location (on the roof of the network's building) and not on Mt. Royal like the other stations. Also, you might be getting co-channel interference from a VPT's channel 20 analog transmitter (I think it's in St. Johnsbury).

don't mean to intrude here, i'm in poland spring maine. had some fairly good topos this past weekend. and was picking up a lot of the boston digitals. checked this afternoon and i guess its over, can't get a thing. turned the antenna towards vt. and i have a short green bar on 25-1 not strong enough to get a lock. anyone confirm? i can usually get analog 20. and 22 fairly well from here and sometimes 33 and 31. we are in the same boat here as well with fox passing hd to cable but no ota. alan

Originally posted by alann555
don't mean to intrude here, i'm in poland spring maine. had some fairly good topos this past weekend. and was picking up a lot of the boston digitals. checked this afternoon and i guess its over, can't get a thing. turned the antenna towards vt. and i have a short green bar on 25-1 not strong enough to get a lock. anyone confirm? i can usually get analog 20. and 22 fairly well from here and sometimes 33 and 31. we are in the same boat here as well with fox passing hd to cable but no ota. alan

25 is WNNE-DT and they told me a few days ago that they hoped to begin testing withn next 2 weeks. Low power at first and gradually increase. It will be transmitted from Mt Ascutney - the same location as VTPBS.

Per their engineer (Roger Rosenthal), they will eventually be as strong or stronger than VTPBS-HD (at 24.5) which I get right now with a great signal, so if you can get that, you'll probably have no problem with WNNE-DT once it gets going.

They plan to upconvert to HD and also pass on NBC HD as it come through from the national network.

Alan555,

I just emailed the WNNE engineer to see if they were doing any testing recently and will post anything I hear back.

I just tested for it on my Dish 811 but got nothing. I do get a 86% signal for 24-5 (VTPBS-HD) and since they're the same location, I should see something if they are sending. I'm in Bradford, Vt (05033) at about 800 feet with a decent view South & South East.

I've been emailing back and forth with WNNE for about 4 months and would be very interrested in hearing about any signal readings you happen to get from 25-1. How much do you get at 24-5 ? Does it lock ? If you turn your antenna to optimize that station, then you should be at best possible for 25-1 too.

Thanks,
Walt

Alan555,

Per WNNE, I guess whatever signal you were getting at 25-1 was not them. It may have been CH 25 WLBZ - DT out of bangor me. I think the only other station on ch 25 is in syracuse NY .

WaltinVt

This is the most recent info I've received regarding WNNE-DT (25x). I got this almost 3 weeks ago, so I've been expecting to see some signal activity any day but nothing yet. I'll probably bug him again soon.

"Walt,
The only one vacationing on the beach would be my boss. He deserves
it though, he just got back from Iraq.
I am going up to plattsburgh this week to see if I can get the encoder
configured to send programming down to Ascutney.
We had some microwave issues last week that were very time consuming.
To make a short story long, I hope to have a signal to Ascutney this week
or early next week and start testing next week.

Sorry I didn't get back sooner, too many irons in the fire.

roger"

Does anyone have any updates on any other digital / HD possibilities in the Vermont / NH area?

How about has anyone been able to get the 4 HD nets from Direct TV in the Vermont DMA ? I know other areas HAVE been able to get "HD only" waivers from some affiliates and "D" has been talked into accepting these.

IF anybody's got any news, post it so we can keep this thread near the front.

WaltinVt

Shortly after my last post here I sent another email to WNNE:

"Hi Roger,
Sorry to bug you again. I expect you're probably pulling your hair out over this digital business.
Anyway, I know you were pretty confident you'd be testing by a couple weeks ago, so just thought I'd check in for the latest status.
You know NBC takes over the NASCAR Nextel Cup races in July ? We will have "lift off" before then - right ??:-)
Thanks,
Walt"

I got this back today:

"Walt,
I still have a few strands of hair left, We have had issues with getting
the HD feed down the microwave.
We are currently working with the manf. on this.
I will be going up to plattsburgh this week to help out .

I fully intend to be up by July. I want my NASCAR in HD and Surround
too!!!

Sorry this has taken so long.
will let you know when we start testing.

Roger"

So sounds like they're still trying but being hindered by some problems. I'll post as soon as something happens.

WaltinVt

Walt, do you know if WNNE HD will be made available on Adelphia cable (we don't get WNNE at all now)? Any other news of networks (other than CBS on WCAX) becoming available on Adelphia?

Thanks!
Marcus in Montpelier on Adelphia cable.

Waltinvt;

I have not tried to get waivers from Directv for HD; I'm not sure it will work but I am willing to try if its the thing that will work the soonest..given the huge delay in the FCC defining the so-called digital white zone. Thanks.

PS off adelphia and glad.

Originally posted by vermonter
Waltinvt;

I have not tried to get waivers from Directv for HD; I'm not sure it will work but I am willing to try if its the thing that will work the soonest..given the huge delay in the FCC defining the so-called digital white zone. Thanks.

PS off adelphia and glad.

What seems to be happening in some areas is that the affiliates are more inclined to give temporary "HD Only" waivers or "letters of no objection". I don't know about this area though.

If you're already a "D" customer, I'd call them and see if they'll do it. I'm an "E" customer and would have switched to "D" except they won't apply for waivers for "potential customers".

I'd have switched and taken my chances except that "E" currently gives me the national CBS-HD and Fox, NBC & ABC analog distants, which I don't want to take the chance on loosing until I'm sure I can get the HDs from "D". Once I'm reasonably sure, I'll make the switch.

It you try, let me / us know how you make out.

WaltinVt

Originally posted by marcus51
Walt, do you know if WNNE HD will be made available on Adelphia cable (we don't get WNNE at all now)? Any other news of networks (other than CBS on WCAX) becoming available on Adelphia?

Thanks!
Marcus in Montpelier on Adelphia cable.

Marcus,

I don't really know. Adelphia won't come into my area or I'd sign up. I'm stuck with Charter and I don't believe they'll ever do HD up here in Vermont. WCAX-DT may have an exclusive deal with Adelphia while they're not broadcasting OTA in digital. WNNE-DT will definitly be doing OTA.
WaltinVt

Anyone knows if the work started on Mt Mansfield yet???


Thanks

Off Topic:

I've been trying to setup a family snowmobiling vacation to Vermont. I read about some organized trips that (not organized in a group, just a somewhat organized itinerary) take you from town to town, staying at different B&B's each night.

When the season got close this year, started looking to set something up, and found nothing similar to what I read about. I know I've blown it for this year, but does anyone have a clue where I can go to find something similar, or places that rent snowmobiles (by the day or week - not the hour)?

I'd like to start planning now, so I don't miss another season.

Thanks.

Take a look at this web site vtvast.org. Type in VAST on Google and you will find it as well. Vermont Are Snow Travelers is the organization of snowmobilers in the state. There are numerous connections at the site and you can send them an email if you don't find your answer. Good luck!

Thanks - I've checked that site out before, but never contacted them directly. I'll give it a shot.

I thought I would post over here that tonight I got my HD waiver request back from the local stations...

ALL APPROVED.

I now have the HD networks all from D*.

This was for Castleton Vermont, but I can't imagine it matters where you are for HD waivers in vermont.

Originally posted by gottahavit
I thought I would post over here that tonight I got my HD waiver request back from the local stations...

ALL APPROVED.

I now have the HD networks all from D*.

This was for Castleton Vermont, but I can't imagine it matters where you are for HD waivers in vermont.

Which stations did you get the waivers from and did they specifically say for HD only ?

Did "D" apply for them for you or did you do it youself.

We're you still allowed to have Vt LiLs ?

I'm curious because I'm a long time "E" customer and was going to switch to "D" a while back, when they put up the 4 HD DNS. When I called "D", they said I couldn't get the HD distants because they offered LiLs in Vt.

Now I know that "D" had been misinterperting the SHVERA law but I couldn't convince them otherwise at the time. I really don't want to give up my 3 analog DNS and CBS HD with "E" unless I'm sure I can get all 4 HD DNS with "D".

Thanks,
WaltinVt

Originally posted by waltinvt
Which stations did you get the waivers from and did they specifically say for HD only ?

Did "D" apply for them for you or did you do it youself.

We're you still allowed to have Vt LiLs ?

I'm curious because I'm a long time "E" customer and was going to switch to "D" a while back, when they put up the 4 HD DNS. When I called "D", they said I couldn't get the HD distants because they offered LiLs in Vt.

Now I know that "D" had been misinterperting the SHVERA law but I couldn't convince them otherwise at the time. I really don't want to give up my 3 analog DNS and CBS HD with "E" unless I'm sure I can get all 4 HD DNS with "D".

Thanks,
WaltinVt

I stations were:

WCAX - CBS
WVNY - ABC
WPTZ - NBC
WFFF - FOX

what was interesting was I called WVNY a while ago and was told they would not grant HD waivers, that they didn't really care that their customers were forced to watch crappy SD television as long as it was theirs.

DirecTV submitted the waivers, they took nearly a month to come back but all were approved.

and YES I also have all the local station in SD from DirecTV.

The one thing to consider is that my service area is one of the few places in VT that used to qualify for DNS before this last mess started. I actually already had CBS, NBC, and FOX DNS(HD and SD), but had never added ABC because there was nothing interesting there. I submitted my request for ABC because of the playoffs. Apparently they decided to submit all 4 waivers for me even though I had the other 3 already. Probably if the others had been rejected I would have lost what I already had, but at least now I have specific HD waivers on file for ALL the networks. I have to assume that if they are handing out specific HD waivers at all they have to do it for anyone in VT.

Unless you are in a hurry I would suggest a trial run with E* and their HD CBS. If you get the waiver more than likely you'll get the others and you can switch to D*.


Good luck, now if only D* had TNT HD I'd be all set for the playoffs.

Do you need to have to locals package to access the HD DNS? Also, do you get east and west?

I'm thinking of having DirecTV submit the requests for CBS and NBC only, since I was already eligible for ABC and Fox. I just don't want to risk losing them...

You can not have east and west(I asked), you will only get east coast feeds. You need to have eithe rthe locals or the HD package to get the HD networks. If you have either they are free.

I owuld make sure you tell them not to submit waivers for the others if you are concerned about losing them. I only asked for ABC, but the still submitted all of them.

Gottahavit and other VT HD Enthusiasts;

I called D about 2 weeks ago and asked for HD national feeds..and was told D would submit waiver requests to the local stations (same as Gottahavit got). They also told me it would take between 30 and 45 days AND that D would communicate with a letter either way the deal went. Incidentally I have D locals.

I'm in Jericho ~7 miles from Mansfield; it will be interesting if the local broadcasters give me the waivers. I personally know the WCAX folks do not support waivers...I spoke to them during last fall's HD discussion about the timeline for OTA off Mansfield.

Finally they cautioned me that it would be ~$2.25 extra per channel.

Thanks.

PS Gottahavit..how did you get the notification? Did the HD feeds just pop on then or did you have to call back up etc?

Originally posted by yipikyer
Anyone knows if the work started on Mt Mansfield yet???


Thanks

The work is scheduled to begin in early June. The buildings and tower foundations will go up first, the towers themselves - next year.

Originally posted by vermonter
Gottahavit and other VT HD Enthusiasts;

I called D about 2 weeks ago and asked for HD national feeds..and was told D would submit waiver requests to the local stations (same as Gottahavit got). They also told me it would take between 30 and 45 days AND that D would communicate with a letter either way the deal went. Incidentally I have D locals.

I'm in Jericho ~7 miles from Mansfield; it will be interesting if the local broadcasters give me the waivers. I personally know the WCAX folks do not support waivers...I spoke to them during last fall's HD discussion about the timeline for OTA off Mansfield.

Finally they cautioned me that it would be ~$2.25 extra per channel.

Thanks.

PS Gottahavit..how did you get the notification? Did the HD feeds just pop on then or did you have to call back up etc?

I got a card in the mail that said they were approved and that the channels should be on, but I had to call to get them on. According to the CSR there was some glitch and the waivers never made from one system to the other automatically as they should have.

The card also said if you have locals or HD package there is no charge, and I can tell you There is no charge when I look on line.

Side question about these Vermont affiliate waivers:

I currently get the analog DNS of Fox, NBC & ABC and the HD DNS of CBS from "E".

If "E" has waivers for any or all of them on file and I could get them to send / fax me copies, could I then use them to get "D" to pre-qualify me for the 4 HD DNS so I could switch and hopefully get them at the time of installation ?

Walt

I doubt they would accept them, however I cannot imagine an excuse that you would get rejected for D* when you were previously approved for E*. The one thing I do know is that there is NO WAY you can have the SD DNS channels. There apparently are no more waivers for these. If you have them now(like I have 3 of them) and you give them up they are gone because they offer locals. However with locals and HD DNS I'm not sure why you would care about the SD DNS.

Originally posted by gottahavit
I doubt they would accept them, however I cannot imagine an excuse that you would get rejected for D* when you were previously approved for E*. The one thing I do know is that there is NO WAY you can have the SD DNS channels. There apparently are no more waivers for these. If you have them now(like I have 3 of them) and you give them up they are gone because they offer locals. However with locals and HD DNS I'm not sure why you would care about the SD DNS.

I wouldn't. I would have gladly given up my SD DNS with "E" for the HD DNS with "D" but only if it was a sure bet.

Now of course everything is changed with the addition of the 10 Voom channels. I fully expect "D" will eventually get them but right now it's nice to have more HD. I still really want to figure out a way to get the networks in HD for Nascar & Football.

WNNE is still saying they'll be up in HD any week now - and certainly before NBC takes over Nascar in July. Hopefully they're right.

Walt:
If I understand the situation correctly, with E* you should be able to get CBS national feed in HD and when WNNE (NBC) starts to broadcast in HD OTA from Mt Ascutney apparently you will be able to get it as well via an antenna. Correct? That still leaves you without Fox and ABC in HD but still not too bad. I decided recently to keep my D* SD DNS hoping to add the HD DNS when the new MPEG4 receivers come on the market next year. Might even try to do it sooner since I will be full time in Vermont. I figure it will be a couple of more years at least before we can get HD LILS out of Burlington via D*. Unfortunately, it now seems I may not be able to get D* HD DNS for NBC or PBS and may lose even the SD NBC. Have already lost the SD PBS. Why? The claim reported to me by D* is that I should be able to get the signal from Mt Ascutney via antenna for PBS. Not true! I live 10 miles as the bird flies from Ascutney, but on the east side of a big hill surrounded by a forest. I am so annoyed at PBS that I have stopped giving them money. I am guessing, perhaps prematurely, that NBC will be dropped from my D* SD DNS line up when it too starts broadcasting from MT. Ascutney. That is why I too am thinking that E* may be the way to go now that it has some VOOM HD. At least I will get CBS in HD and get back PBS in SD and keep NBC SD. The situation for those of us in the mountains of Vermont is kind of frustrating and it does not look as if Adelphia cable or Verizon is going to be of much help either. Just wish the government regulations would be flexible enough to allow us to get what those in urban areas receive from multiple sources. I guess we will just have to spend more time enjoying the view from the deck. It is just that in winter, and even occasionally in May, it is too cold to sit out there.

DENIED!

Yes I'm in northen VT and I called Directv for waivers...and now 6 weeks later I called having heard nothing. The rep told me they "denied" me. Not who or what (out of the 4 afiliates) but that I was "denied"

What do we do next? Jeepers!

Damn it! I was keeping my fingers crossed for my pending waivers for CBS/NBC but having seen Vermonter's post, my hope has decreased.

Why was the new bill so badly written? Our local stations are not broadcasting digitally AT ALL, so there shouldn't even be a need to wait for the new testing parameters to define white areas. It doesn't take a genius to see that the only adjacent markets are Albany and Boston, all of which are out of range!

About your situation, vermonter, if no response was given within 45 days, isn't the waiver considered automatically granted by default?

The CSR told me that I was "denied" but offered little beyond that. Previously I was told that I would hear one way or another from Directv by mail in about 45 days; I have not heard but its been about 6 weeks and so I called hoping.

My guess is the locals denied me and the paperwork just had not gotten back to me.

On the other hand the CSR could be confused and so perhaps I'll try again later.

I've got a thread going in the programming area about this general question of locals granting HD waivers..so far there isn't much there.

Disappointing that Vermonter was apparently turned down for HD DNS. Annoying that D* did not write to him as they promised. I wonder if Waltinvt go the HD DNS permissions because he was already getting the SD DNS and chose to keep it rather than go with the SD LILS out of Burlington? You need a crystal ball and a tea leaf reader to guess what to do if you want to get HD network tv in rural Vermont. This week I called E to find out about VOOM service and about the HD CBS DNS which I assumed was going to be automatic since there is no CBS OTA anywhere near me. Wrong! E can't/won't tell me whether or not I can get HD CBS DNS until I open an account with them. They could not even tell me if getting the SD DNS LILS on E out of Burlington would effect my chances of getting the CBS HD DNS. I may have to reconsider and stay with D* if they can get me the HD DNS. I chose the keep the SD DNS last month rather than switch to the SD LILS. Wonder if I will have to subscribe to the D* HD service and buy the equipment before they can tell me? Crazy situation indeed. Going with BellExpressvu may be the only way we can get HD networks at least until 2007 or whenever Mt Mansfield tower is operational and D* and/or E start delivering HD LILS to us.

you should call the stations and ask why they are approving some HD waivers in vermont and not others. To be honest I was shocked that I got all mine approved.

Just to make it official when I got home yesterday there was a postcard from Directv stating that each network denied my waivers.

Any suggestions as to whom to talk to at the stations? I'm thinking of rewiriting the congressional team as well. One question; I recall the recent satellite legislation ALLOWS the HD networks via satellite; so if the local broadcasters deny me are they breaking the law?

Thanks.

as I have heard it described, it is a "business descision" by the stations as to whether they approve the HD waivers or not, at least until the new digital coverage maps are official.

HOWEVER I would expect them to be consistant with their waivers.

I realize you've heard this before but looks like WNNE DT may start testing in next week or two. Keep an eye out for any signal activity on channel 25 from Mt Ascutney.

I guess they've had a bear of a time getting the digital signal to multiplex with the analog signal coming from the parent station. This stuff's way over my head but I guess they've had to "groom" the signal to get into the microwave plus they had trouble getting the encoders to talk to each other. Anyway, sounds like they've gotton most of those issues resolved and will start sending the signal down from Plattsburg soon. Once that happens they'll start test broadcasts from the mountain.

I'm really hoping this works because NBC takes over Nascar July 2nd and all their Nextel races will be in HD:D

Originally posted by marcus51
Walt, do you know if WNNE HD will be made available on Adelphia cable (we don't get WNNE at all now)? Any other news of networks (other than CBS on WCAX) becoming available on Adelphia?

Thanks!
Marcus in Montpelier on Adelphia cable.

I just rec'd this reply from an iquiry to WPTZ/WNNE about NBC-HD on Adelphia.


"I actually spoke with Adelphia yesterday about that very thing.
We are preparing to deliver the HDTV signal over to Adelphia, but I do have
some technical challenges to overcome first.

I can't give you a hard and fast date, but I can tell you we are actively
working on it.
As long as Adelphia agrees to carry the HDTV signal in their lineup, we
should be on this summer.

Thanks for watching and feel free to check back in for updates.

Director of Engineering
WPTZ/WNNE
Hearst-Argyle Television"

My first post here guys : )

Im so stoked that nbc-dt is coming to adelphia. ill be watching my programming guide in the coming weeks. Now if only fox would have joined up with adelphia...i could have had my 24 in hd : (

Here is the response I got from my inquiry to ABC. Looks like no LOST in HD next season either.

No response from FOX yet. Will post if I hear anything.


"Thank you for the email. At this time ABC does not plan to provide us with
the equipment needed for their feed of HD programming until late in 2005 or
early 2006. We hope to offer that signal to Adelphia shortly after the
equipment is provided to us.

Thanks again,
Director of Broadcast Operations
WVNY/ABC22"

Here is the response I got from my inquiry to ABC. Looks like no LOST in HD next season either.

No response from FOX yet. Will post if I hear anything.


"Thank you for the email. At this time ABC does not plan to provide us with
the equipment needed for their feed of HD programming until late in 2005 or
early 2006. We hope to offer that signal to Adelphia shortly after the
equipment is provided to us.

Thanks again,
Director of Broadcast Operations
WVNY/ABC22"

And that's just honky-dorry with them because due to their "coalition", none of their competition will be doing much any sooner plus the longer they can put doing digital off, the longer before their expenses go up.

Since they're not in the top 100, I think they have until at least mid 2006.

I realize you've heard this before but looks like WNNE DT may start testing in next week or two. Keep an eye out for any signal activity on channel 25 from Mt Ascutney.

I guess they've had a bear of a time getting the digital signal to multiplex with the analog signal coming from the parent station. This stuff's way over my head but I guess they've had to "groom" the signal to get into the microwave plus they had trouble getting the encoders to talk to each other. Anyway, sounds like they've gotton most of those issues resolved and will start sending the signal down from Plattsburg soon. Once that happens they'll start test broadcasts from the mountain.

I'm really hoping this works because NBC takes over Nascar July 2nd and all their Nextel races will be in HD:D

I'd wish they would get their act together soon, NBC is the only network I can't get a waiver for. Plus it's a pain for me to keep checking to see if they are up considering I have to run a digital channel scan on my receiver which is a pretty slow process.

I'd wish they would get their act together soon, NBC is the only network I can't get a waiver for. Plus it's a pain for me to keep checking to see if they are up considering I have to run a digital channel scan on my receiver which is a pretty slow process.

Yea I hear ya coach. Where are you in Vt (or NH)? What kind of digital receiver do you have ?

You shouldn't have to run a scan everytime. I just got a Dish 942 (I've been using an 811 but am selling it now) and to check a particular station, all you have to do is use the "add dtv" button and type in the station number, which in this case would be 25.

What kind of signal do you get for VtPBS's digital (at # 24) ?

Anyway, Roger (at WNNE) is keeping me posted and said he will let me know as soon as they're ready to start testing the signal and I will post it here as soon as I know.

Keep the faith. Like I told Roger: "Build it and they will come" :)

Yea I hear ya coach. Where are you in Vt (or NH)? What kind of digital receiver do you have ?

You shouldn't have to run a scan everytime. I just got a Dish 942 (I've been using an 811 but am selling it now) and to check a particular station, all you have to do is use the "add dtv" button and type in the station number, which in this case would be 25.

What kind of signal do you get for VtPBS's digital (at # 24) ?

Anyway, Roger (at WNNE) is keeping me posted and said he will let me know as soon as they're ready to start testing the signal and I will post it here as soon as I know.

Keep the faith. Like I told Roger: "Build it and they will come" :)

I'm in NH. Claremont to be exact though not that D* knows that :)

I have a Samsung s-160 or something to that effect. It's a DirecTV receiver and I do have to run a scan everytime. Funny thing about the VT PBS, it appears on my receiver as channel 33-5 rather than 24. I have no idea why that is. I wonder where WNNE's channel will show up as far as channel location. I receive Fox 25 from Boston on channel 25 so I wonder if that will effect where it's located.

As far as signal strength goes, I just switched from a Phillips indoor antenna to a RCA one and now my signal meter says 100% for the PBS HD channel. I would constantly lose signal on the Phillips.

I'm in NH. Claremont to be exact though not that D* knows that :)

I have a Samsung s-160 or something to that effect. It's a DirecTV receiver and I do have to run a scan everytime. Funny thing about the VT PBS, it appears on my receiver as channel 33-5 rather than 24. I have no idea why that is. I wonder where WNNE's channel will show up as far as channel location. I receive Fox 25 from Boston on channel 25 so I wonder if that will effect where it's located.

As far as signal strength goes, I just switched from a Phillips indoor antenna to a RCA one and now my signal meter says 100% for the PBS HD channel. I would constantly lose signal on the Phillips.

Too bad you have to scan everytime. Yea, I just noticed that all 5 VTPBS are now labeled 33-x. That just happened recently. I checked though and they're still picked up by my 811 by entering 24 but listed as 33 for some reason.

You get the digital signal for Fox 25 out of Boston on an indoor antenna !!? - I'm way jealous. How high are you?

I'm in Bradford, Vt , at 800 feet ASL, with a decent view South and South East; just spent $500 on a good rooftop antenna with amp and rotor and can't even get a jiggle for that channel.

I do get (or should say did get with my 811 - haven't tried with my 942 yet) 49% signal readings for 30, 33, 35 and 42 but never a lock. I take that back. I did once get a lock that lasted for a second or two on 42 (Channel 7, WHDH I think).

I also get a consistant %49 with sparadic spikes to 65% for channel 59 (WMUR out of Manchester NH) but it will only lock for a few seconds every once in a while.

I'm hoping power increases in the near future will help.

Too bad you have to scan everytime. Yea, I just noticed that all 5 VTPBS are now labeled 33-x. That just happened recently. I checked though and they're still picked up by my 811 by entering 24 but listed as 33 for some reason.

You get the digital signal for Fox 25 out of Boston on an indoor antenna !!? - I'm way jealous. How high are you?

I'm in Bradford, Vt , at 800 feet ASL, with a decent view South and South East; just spent $500 on a good rooftop antenna with amp and rotor and can't even get a jiggle for that channel.

I do get (or should say did get with my 811 - haven't tried with my 942 yet) 49% signal readings for 30, 33, 35 and 42 but never a lock. I take that back. I did once get a lock that lasted for a second or two on 42 (Channel 7, WHDH I think).

I also get a consistant %49 with sparadic spikes to 65% for channel 59 (WMUR out of Manchester NH) but it will only lock for a few seconds every once in a while.

I'm hoping power increases in the near future will help.

I don't get fox 25 with the antenna, I get it through Directv and since I use the same receiver for both signals I thought it might cause a conflict(i'm pretty ignorant as to the specifics of how everything works). I'm like 7 miles from Ascutney VT so that explains why I can such a strong signal on the PBS feed.

I'm surprised you can pick up the southern NH channels. Your way further north than I am and no one I knows can get any signal from them.

I don't get fox 25 with the antenna, I get it through Directv and since I use the same receiver for both signals I thought it might cause a conflict(i'm pretty ignorant as to the specifics of how everything works). I'm like 7 miles from Ascutney VT so that explains why I can such a strong signal on the PBS feed.

I'm surprised you can pick up the southern NH channels. Your way further north than I am and no one I knows can get any signal from them.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply I was getting those channels - just some signal activity on them but not enough (except for a couple brief exceptions) to actually lock in. However that was all with my Dish 811 receiver. With the 942 I just got, I no longer get any signal activity on any of those other channels, just the Vt PBS and NH PBS. This surprises me as I heard that the 942 had a better OTA tuner.

Walt, Central Vermont HD Enthusiasts;

Any news on WNNE?

From " devoid of HD in Northern New England"

No HD news on the Adelphia Cable front in Montpelier.

Walt, Central Vermont HD Enthusiasts;

Any news on WNNE?

From " devoid of HD in Northern New England"

They've been working hard but have also been plagued with many problems & setbacks. Their most recent being microwave and decoder issues. They again thought they we're set to start testing 3 weeks ago but ended up having to order 5 new decoders (which come from UK). They came in last Friday.

I talked with their engineer on Wednsday. He's a real Nascar enthusist like myself and has really been pushing hard to get everything done in time for NBCs first race (which is tonight) but he just told me it's not going to happen in time. He's hoping for maybe sometime next week.

Apparently a lot of their problems (and this is way over my head) are related to getting both the WNNE and WPTZ digital streams tied in with the national NBC digital signal and then microwave it all from Burlington down to Mt. Ascutney along with the analog. I guess it's all caused some unique issues that they hadn't planned on.

I know this sounds like a broken record but it really does sound like we'll see something happening (at both WNNE and WPTZ) very soon.

The part about WPTZ going digital at the same time surprised me because I didn't realize they even had their towers done up on Mt Mansfield. That must mean that the other affiliates will be doing something soon. Any word on that ?

They've been working hard but have also been plagued with many problems & setbacks. Their most recent being microwave and decoder issues. They again thought they we're set to start testing 3 weeks ago but ended up having to order 5 new decoders (which come from UK). They came in last Friday.

I talked with their engineer on Wednsday. He's a real Nascar enthusist like myself and has really been pushing hard to get everything done in time for NBCs first race (which is tonight) but he just told me it's not going to happen in time. He's hoping for maybe sometime next week.

Apparently a lot of their problems (and this is way over my head) are related to getting both the WNNE and WPTZ digital streams tied in with the national NBC digital signal and then microwave it all from Burlington down to Mt. Ascutney along with the analog. I guess it's all caused some unique issues that they hadn't planned on.

I know this sounds like a broken record but it really does sound like we'll see something happening (at both WNNE and WPTZ) very soon.

The part about WPTZ going digital at the same time surprised me because I didn't realize they even had their towers done up on Mt Mansfield. That must mean that the other affiliates will be doing something soon. Any word on that ?

I doubt very much that anything is going on on mt mansfield, last I heard they were not going to start construction of the tower until early next year at the earliest.

I doubt very much that anything is going on on mt mansfield, last I heard they were not going to start construction of the tower until early next year at the earliest.

I was under the same impression but according to WNNE's Engineer, WPTZ is going digital at the same time. I didn't get all the specific details. Maybe WPTZ has modified their existing analog transmitter location to do digital until the new towers are finished. I don't even know if that's possible.

I don't think WPTZ digital will be broadcast over-the-air for the time being. They will likely just feed the cable company. Their DTV permit on channel 14 is for Mt. Mansfield. If they wanted to broadcast temporarilly on Mt. Terry, they would need to ask the FCC for an STA; they have not done so.

Is anyone in VT able to go up to Mt. Mansfield to see if something is happening? I was told that while the towers would only be going up next year, the cement foundations and the new building would be constructed this year.

I don't think WPTZ digital will be broadcast over-the-air for the time being. They will likely just feed the cable company. Their DTV permit on channel 14 is for Mt. Mansfield. If they wanted to broadcast temporarilly on Mt. Terry, they would need to ask the FCC for an STA; they have not done so.

Is anyone in VT able to go up to Mt. Mansfield to see if something is happening? I was told that while the towers would only be going up next year, the cement foundations and the new building would be constructed this year.

You're right. I checked back with the WNNE eng and apparently I misunderstood about WPTZ - they are just working on roads and foundations right now and won't be up until next year sometime. Sorry 'bout that.

As for WNNE, the latest as of today is they're working all night tonight to get the signal on microwave and although they're shooting for something this week, it may not be until next week. If I'm reading between the lines correctly, I get a sense that although their engineer is pushing real hard, there are other factors beyond his control that are impeding the whole process.

Just look at us - we're so deprived of HD up here in the sticks we (maybe it's just me) jump on every little bit of information with new hope and get so disappointed when it falls through. Sad I tell ya...sad. :-((((((((

Remember the slogan, "I Want My MTV!"?

I am ready to shout, "I want my DTV!"

ALERT!

I am currently picking up something digital on channel 25, but I'm unable to get a lock. All I get is a reading of about 10 on my HTL-HD.

Is someone in southern Vermont able to see if it is WNNE-DT.

Damn I wish I could get a lock!

I have a antenna reading of 100% for the PBS-HD from Ascutney so I should get a strong signal from WNNE, but as of now there is nothing showing from channel 25 other than the normal Fox 25 SD feed I get from DirecTV. I ran a digital scan and found nothing new. I still have no idea of whether or not having that channel will interfere in me picking up WNNE since I use the D* receiver for OTA as well.

No HD news on the Adelphia Cable front in Montpelier.

I just got this message from WPTZ/WNNE about the adelphia feed.

We cleared a major hurdle this week in the technological wonder we've
created to get the signal over to the cable head end.
I am hoping to first get the WNNE Digital Transmitter on the air next week,
then I'll work on getting Adelphia up and running.

Problem is I have a lot of other projects demanding time right now, so
progress is slow... but steady.

If you don't see it there in a month, check back with me.

Thanks for watching...

Just letting you all know that WNNE-DT has been test their digital signal today for channel 25. I don't have all the details yet but I did pick up channels 31-1, 31-3, 31-4 & 31-5 when I did a scan (they come through on channel 25 and register as the 31x stations)

I won't really have time to fool with them until later but wanted to let you people know. Their engineer did say they would be down for a while later today (aprox 1pm to 3pm) and then (I assume) back up.

I don't know when NBC starts their HD lineup but I assume prime time will be a better time to see how their PQ's going to be.

Post your feedback here.

WaltinVt

RE WNNE

Thanks Walt. Just did a quick scan (4pm) here in Manchester, NH and nothing. Probably still down? Analog 31 I do get w/some snow and was curious whether I would receive the digital signal.

It's on here. Thanks for keeping us updated Walt.

I checked the channel(s) out last night(during primetime) but didn't see any HD. Guess they haven't gotten that far yet or they can't get it working. The PQ of the digital channel is mediocre on my TV.

Are you still getting 57-1, 57-2? Even my analog 57 doesnt come in? Everything else is ok?

any help please...

There was a note on Mountain Lake PBS' website explaining that the analog feed will be down for the week as they change the transmitter. They intend to keep the digital signal up during most of this time. They also gave directions to cable companies to rent DTV set-top-boxes in order to continue to provide the signal to subscribers.

One thing I noticed is that WCFE-DT 38 appears to come in STRONGER when WCFE-TV 57 is down.

FoxFan: Where are you located exctly? I'm in Greenfield Park near the hospital, and my 57-1, 57-2 are very weak. At the same time 3,5,22, 33, 44 are near perfect? Any ideas why???


thanks

It was mentioned in an earlier press release that the power on WCFE-DT might be reduced when people would be in the tower. I haven't checked today.

I checked the channel(s) out last night(during primetime) but didn't see any HD. Guess they haven't gotten that far yet or they can't get it working. The PQ of the digital channel is mediocre on my TV.

Yea, I noticed that too. Apparently they're having problems with the Plattsburg switcher. I checked with their engineer and below is what he emailed me:


"Walt,
<snip>....... I am working with the guys in plattsburgh to get the switching from SD to HD working reliably so they can switch to network HD feed more reliably. It will be ready soon, if I have to go up myself. The Heineken sounds good.

Thanks for your feedback and patience. Keep in touch."


Sounds like they're working on it and may have at least the switch to HD fixed soon.

I'll post more as I get it.

WaltinVt

I expect most of you in the area have noticed that WNNE-DT is up and running on channel 25 (31-1) but is not passing on any HD yet.

Apparently the problem involves the switching equipment at the Plattsburg (WPTZ) office and if I understand it correctly, their equipment needs to be updated or replaced.

Everything's up and running at Mt Ascutney and I'm getting a very strong signal up here in Bradford but of course none of NBC's HD is being passed through.

Now this is just speculation on my part but I think the WNNE people have done all they can at their end and it's the Plattsburg / Burlington end that's not doing their part. Again, I have not been told that - I'm just reading between the lines so to speak.

Anyway, I think it might help for all of us waiting for HD in this area to contact them and let them know we're out here.

I've got this bad feeling that if they think there's no HD viewer base out here, they may not bother with this until the Mt Mansfield towers are ready.

As I understand it, WNNE's ready to send out a strong HD signal now if Plattsburg will just flip the switch.

I don't have a name or contact info for Plattsburg, so if one of you do, please post it.

We've gotten this close, I hate to see it get stalled now.

WaltinVt

Yeah it's been kinda a tease them having the digital singal up but no HD. Not that I'm into anything that is on NBC anyway but it would be nice to get anymore HD. So if someone comes up with the contact info I'd be glad to write in as well.

I still don't have a direct contact yet for WPTZ but did try emailing through the WPTZ web site:

http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/index.html

and also called the Hearst-Argyle HQ in NY and talked to a very nice lady who said she'd persue it with that department.

Hearst-Argyle Television, Inc.
888 Seventh Avenue
New York, NY 10106
Tel: (212) 887-6800
Fax: (212) 887-6875

so has anyone with an HD TIVIO gotten this signal setup? I've tried but I'm not sure I'm doing it right or if I just have zero chance getting a signal here in vergennes.

Received this update today. Hope Joe doesn't mind if I post it here.

Marc

We are all working hard to get out HDTV systems up and running!

WNNE-HD (Ch 25) on Mr Ascutney went on the air last Monday and IS
transmitting in HD.

We have not yet reached an agreement with Adelphia to carry that signal
yet.

WPTZ-DT (Ch 14) on Mt Mansfield is still under construction (are are
ALL of
the Burlington stations as we will all be located on Mt Mansfield). The
current plan is for them to go on the air late next summer or early
next
fall. At this time they are running ahead of the construction schedule
but
bad weather or more holdups by the State Of Vt could delay the entire
time
line.

In any case, it shouldnt be too much longer!

Thanks for writing.


Joe Krone

Operations Manager
WPTZ TV (Ch 05) Burlington VT - Plattsburgh NY
WPTZ DT (Ch 14) Burlington VT - Plattsburgh NY
WNNE TV (Ch 31) Hartford VT - Hanover NH
WNNE DT (Ch 25) Hartford VT - Hanover NH

I don't know whatb the hell that guy is talking about. WNNE hasn't broadcast one single thing in HD.

I don't know whatb the hell that guy is talking about. WNNE hasn't broadcast one single thing in HD.

You got that right :(

I got a similar response from Joe Krone and he tried to tell me WNNE has been doing HD for a week. My guess is he didn't realize I knew as much as I did about the problem or maybe he didn't understand it at all. Anyway, I replied and explained that WNNE was ready but it couldn't pass on any of NBCs HD programming until Plattsburg "flipped" the switch".

I've had a great relationship with the engineer at the WNNE end for almost a year now and he's kept me informed along the way. Although he DID NOT say this, my guess from reading between the lines is that Plattsburg is dragging it's feet on replacing / upgrading their switcher equipment.

I'm further speculating that because there's no chance for WPTZ to be doing digital for at least another year anyway, they're in no hurry to spend more money on something that's just going to benefit WNNE. It's been obvious for years that WPTZ doesn't view WNNE as a very high priority.

I think it's going to take a little pressure from viewers before any more gets done.

I'm surprised Casey Thompson hasn't jumped in this thread. I think he's right in WNNE's back yard. :D

perhaps Joe thinks the "stretched screen" will fool everybody....

I expect they're all pretty new to this stuff and had no idea how much some of us out here know. I still have not heard back from Joe regarding my reply to his response. I'm really hoping he will be straight with me this time.

Received this update today. Hope Joe doesn't mind if I post it here.

Marc


WPTZ-DT (Ch 14) on Mt Mansfield is still under construction (are are
ALL of
the Burlington stations as we will all be located on Mt Mansfield). The
current plan is for them to go on the air late next summer or early
next
fall. At this time they are running ahead of the construction schedule
but
bad weather or more holdups by the State Of Vt could delay the entire
time
line.

In any case, it shouldnt be too much longer!

Thanks for writing.


Joe Krone

Operations Manager
WPTZ TV (Ch 05) Burlington VT - Plattsburgh NY
WPTZ DT (Ch 14) Burlington VT - Plattsburgh NY
WNNE TV (Ch 31) Hartford VT - Hanover NH
WNNE DT (Ch 25) Hartford VT - Hanover NH

Ahead of schedule!!!

Wouldn't be great if El Nino comes back, and there's no snow until December. I'm hoping they would be smart enough to start putting the towers up right away...

You got that right :(

I'm surprised Casey Thompson hasn't jumped in this thread. I think he's right in WNNE's back yard. :D

I'm still lurking out here. Unfortunately, I've had some major life changes which has moved me into an apartment across the river into Lebanon.

In the process, I have had to move to Adelphia. While I think that they are horribly over-priced, I was able to get an HD DVR from them and am happily enjoying all the networks in HD. It's not a TiVo, but it suits my immediate needs.

So, WNNE has fallen off my radar. It sickens me that this is going on. This is just typical beuracratic BS if you ask me.

Either way, I'll still check back in here as it's still my hobby :)

I'm still lurking out here. Unfortunately, I've had some major life changes which has moved me into an apartment across the river into Lebanon.

In the process, I have had to move to Adelphia. While I think that they are horribly over-priced, I was able to get an HD DVR from them and am happily enjoying all the networks in HD. It's not a TiVo, but it suits my immediate needs.

So, WNNE has fallen off my radar. It sickens me that this is going on. This is just typical beuracratic BS if you ask me.

Either way, I'll still check back in here as it's still my hobby :)

Casey,

I'm sorry to hear about your "changes" and hope things work out for you. Don't hesitate to PM me if you feel like chatting.

I lived in West Lebanon a few years back and Hartford / Wilder, Vt before that. Had TCI cable (even when it was still Twin State Cable) for years. I had never experienced satellite at that point, so didn't know what I was missing.

Anyway, good luck to you and stay in touch.

WaltinVt

Any chance I would pick up any over-the-air DTV in downtown Montpelier, with an indoor antenna? I'm thinking of WNNE for NBC stuff, and PBS.

Thanks!

Marc

Any chance I would pick up any over-the-air DTV in downtown Montpelier, with an indoor antenna? I'm thinking of WNNE for NBC stuff, and PBS.

Thanks!

Marc

I really doubt it but you never know. As I remember, downtown is right on the river and a lot of hills around it. How high above street level will the antenna be?

I really doubt it but you never know. As I remember, downtown is right on the river and a lot of hills around it. How high above street level will the antenna be?

Not much above street level. I have an amplified indoor VHF/UHF antenna that I use for FM. I might as well give it a try.

Marc

If I understand the DTV technology correctly, the digital broadcasts use the same spectrum as the existing analog broadcasts, yes? If so, what would happen if I tuned an NTSC TV to a station broadcasting a DTV signal? Obviously, I wouldn't get a picture, but would I see (or hear) something other than white noise that would indicate the presence of a digital signal?

If so, I was thinking I could monitor the handful of stations known to be allocated to Burlington DTV broadcasts using my existing NTSC kit, and once I start seeing a "signature" that indicates the precense of a DTV signal, know that it's time to buy an ATO DTV receiver.

Taken from the VPT Web Site today :

Major activities include:
Summer 2005:
Site preparation and excavations for WCAX building expansion; installation of tower foundations at the WCAX and VPT sites. Building expansion at the WCAX site; new pads for generators and oil containment facilities at the WCAX site.

Winter 2005-2006:
Completion of interior construction of the WCAX building expansion. VPT work to prepare for the installation of its new transmitter.

Summer 2006:
Installation of three new monopole towers, transmission lines, oil containment facilities. New transmitters and antennas installed for all broadcasters.

Summer 2009:
Assuming January 1, 2009 as the date U.S. broadcasting is digital only, five old towers removed and dismantled, leaving three monopole towers on Mt. Mansfield.

*

I'm still trying to get a straight answer from WPTZ regarding when they will be passing on NBC's HD programming to the new WNNE-DT transmitter on Mt Ascutney. Since my last email to them has apparently been ignored, I've decided to post copies of the previous dialogs I've had with the operations manager of WPTZ / WNNE below:

It starts with their first response to questions I emailed through their website contact link on Aug 3rd:

[I]Hello Walt

WNNE-DT is on the air now (Ch-25). It's been on about a week and there are
still a few technical issues being worked out.

However....many NBC programs ARE being broadcast in the HDTV format
already. ALL of the latenight schedule is in HD and, after the summer
"Filler" programs run out, just about all of the NBC Prime time programs
will be in HD this fall.

Unfortunately none of the syndicated programs we air are produced in HD. We
are in the process of installing a TON or new video and audio equipment
here in our studios to allow us to do local programming in HD (Like the
newscasts), the Burlington Jazz Festival and other local specials.

WPTZ-DT (and all of the other Burlington stations) expect to start HD
transmittions next fall. We are currently building new facilities on Mt
Mansfield for WPTZ-DT, WCAX-DT, WVNY-DT and WETK-DT (Vt PBS). If the
weather holds up and there is a "Normal" construction season, late next
summer or early next fall is the "On Air" target date for all of us. I can
tell you that currently the construction work is running ahead of schedule.

It jas been a long haul for all of us and finally there is some light at
the end of the tunnel.

Thanks for your interest and patience.

Joe Krone
Operations Manager
WPTZ/WNNE
********************************
My reply to Joe Aug3rd:

Hi Joe,

First off, thank you for taking the time to reply.

I probably didn't make myself very clear in my initial email. I've been
following the progress of WNNE's trek to digital for over a year now and
have exchanged many emails and even a few phone calls with Roger. I've also
been viewing the new channel 25 since it came online.

What I want to know is when we can expect the HD programming that NBC DOES
provide to actually be passed on as HD to the WNNE facilities ? Currently
it's NOT coming through in HD and as I understand it, it's due to "switcher"
problems at the Plattsburg end.

Is this "switching" the HD feed something that requires more modern
equipment at your facilities or just a matter of someone configuring and
operating the equipment you have properly ?

Even the normal SD programming currently being broadcast on channel 25
doesn't look very good through a digital (1080i DVI) connection. If I input
it through composite to my HDTV, it does look somewhat better but not as
good as 480i should look.

As for signal strength, I'm getting a very strong reading (high 80s - low
90s), which is even higher than I get with from the VTPBS signal (channel
24) and their HD station (24-5 I believe) looks excellent.

Sorry to get so long winded here but if you could please let me know what
the status is of the "switching" problem at the WPTZ facility and how soon
you think before you will actually be passing on NBC's HD programming, I
would really appreciate it. I will also pass that information on to the
HDTV discussion group I belong to, since they do have a thread devoted to HD
viewing in Vt & NH.

Thanks again,
Walt Mather
************************************************************ ***
No response, so tried again Aug 12th:

Hi again Joe,

I replied to your reply but since I haven't heard back yet, I thought I'd
send it again (see below). Just wondering (hoping) if WNNE-DT will be
broadcasting the HD signal of NBC's coverage of the NASCAR NEXTEL race at
Watkins Glen this Sunday (8-14)?

Thanks,
Walt Mather
***************************************************
Reply from Joe Aug 15th:

NBC has announced that all NASCAR Nextel cup races will be in ND and YES,
WNNE-DT should have it when NBC sends the seed to us for air.
Joe
****************************************************
My response to Joe Aug 15th:

Come on Joe - is this really what you want me to pass on ?

Besides my own interest in getting the network programming in HD from our
local affiliates, I also keep others in Vt, Nh & upstate NY informed via
internet discussion groups. We all try to keep pretty well informed and are
well aware of what's going on in the world of high definition both at the
national level and our respective local areas.

As a representative of 2 major television stations in Northern New England,
I'm not sure you really want me to pass on what you just told me ?

Other than the races that TNT HD covers, NBC HAS BEEN providing the HD
signal to their affiliates for the Nascar races since they took over their
half of the season on July 2nd with the Pepsi 400 (as you know, Fox had the
first half of the season).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that WNNE-DT is, in fact,
ready to send NBC's high def signal over the air from Mt Ascutney as soon as
Plattsburg "flips the switch", which WPTZ apparently can't do because they
don't have the proper switching equipment in place. In other words, all
we've been seeing from the channel 25 so far has been "upconverted" standard
definition - even when NBC IS providing an HD signal.

We (owners of HD equipment in Northern New England) just want some straight
answers and a reasonable estimate as to when we will actually be seeing real
HD programming on channel 25.

I look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks,
Walt Mather
**************************************************

As yet I have not heard anything more. If any of you have additional information, please post it.
WaltinVt

They must have been doing some messing around today. I noticed they had switched to the typical digital setup for non HD(pillar boxes 4:3 screen format) during the early afternoon but now they are back to the streched SD. I got excited for a second thinking that perhaps they have figured it out until they switched back.

They must have been doing some messing around today. I noticed they had switched to the typical digital setup for non HD(pillar boxes 4:3 screen format) during the early afternoon but now they are back to the streched SD. I got excited for a second thinking that perhaps they have figured it out until they switched back.

I've got an email in to the WNNE engineer. He's always been good about getting back to me, so hopfully I'll have something to report soon. Thanks for posting Coach. I was busy working today so didn't get a chance to see first hand what you were referring to. Let's hope this means they're at least making progress toward getting real HD on WNNE soon.

Just heard back from WNNE. The guy I usually talk to was on vacation, so was not aware of what's been going on. He thinks some of the emails to WPTZ might have gotten some results as apparently they now have the NBC HD feed up and have tried to send it down to Mt Ascutney a few times (which is what Coach Gibbs probably noticed).

Anyway, looks like things are moving again, so keep an eye out. I don't think the NBC feed contains any HD durning the day, so we probably won't be able to tell much until prime time programming.

Checked last night and still the ugly upconvert. I find I can't even watch this on my HD (DVI) connection. If I use composite though it doesn't look too bad - actually best that WNNE's ever looked on my set.

Just wish they'd get the HD coming in soon because NBC's got the race this weekend and I've gotten pretty spoiled seeing them in HD on TNT.

I see they are playing with it again right now. Got the 4:3 screen and pillar boxes on the side. Hopefully they leave it this way now. Except maybe re-align the picture which has gotten too low lately.

Their stretched SD is terrible. Pretty much unwatchable on my set as well. The sound too is an issue. I have to crank the sound way up on my receiver to hear anything on the channel.

I see they are playing with it again right now. Got the 4:3 screen and pillar boxes on the side. Hopefully they leave it this way now. Except maybe re-align the picture which has gotten too low lately.

Their stretched SD is terrible. Pretty much unwatchable on my set as well. The sound too is an issue. I have to crank the sound way up on my receiver to hear anything on the channel.

I'm working so can't check it out 'til later. I have the same sound problem though. Many of my Dish HD channels require a little more volume than SD but WNNE is a lot softer. So much so that if I forget to turn it down when I switch back to a satellite channel, it blasts me out. I know the VTPBS HD channel isn't like that. Maybe it's a dolby 5.1 issue and maybe, in an effort to balance it, WNNE has turned theirs down too far. I'll have to remember to ask their engineer. Hopfully once they've got these other issues straightened out it'll all fall into place.

It's back to the stretched SD now so your not missing much. Went back at 3:00 pm which I believe is the same way it did last week. Seems they do it for the 2 soap operas and then when it goes back to local programming, it ends up back as the stretched mess.

It's back to the stretched SD now so your not missing much. Went back at 3:00 pm which I believe is the same way it did last week. Seems they do it for the 2 soap operas and then when it goes back to local programming, it ends up back as the stretched mess.

I wish someone with more expertise would jump in this thread. Someone that might know what it is that Plattsburg isn't doing because it seems like they (WPTZ) don't know and are just experimenting.

I don't have much basis for comparison other than the CBS HD signal out of NY which goes to 4:3 with grey sidebars when not in HD and ESPN HD which does the same except their sidebars are more customized. In fact the only station that still stretches SD is TNT HD on Dish and they use a special format that doesn't look anywhere near as bad as WNNE.

I think most people would rather use their own TV screen format controls for viewing SD and when the channel imposes their own stretch by virtue of up converting, it really limits that control.

Well since I work from home I've been keeping an eye on it and they have showed the Today show with the side bars and when they went to commercial breaks or their news, it went back to streched. Back at all streched now. Seems like they have no idea what they are doing.

yipikyer:

You may want to keep the first post updated with current HD status (or latest projections). As this thread grows, and hopefully HD develops in VT - it would be helpful for newbies to check the first post to get the latest without having to search through the whole thread.

Not sure who else noticed it, but they finally seemed to have figured it out. I saw some HD on the station last night and it looked pretty good. Too bad NBC has pretty much no programming that interests me, though getting some of the NHL in HD will be cool.

Not sure who else noticed it, but they finally seemed to have figured it out. I saw some HD on the station last night and it looked pretty good. Too bad NBC has pretty much no programming that interests me, though getting some of the NHL in HD will be cool.

Yes I did see it. I've been so used to tuning in and being disappointed that I almost didn't check last night but just before I went to bed I switched over and got to see 'ol Jay Leno in high definition and it didn't look too bad. Not as good as VTPBS HD or Discovery HD but every bit as good as CBS HD. The real test will be the Nascar race Sunday night or maybe even the Katrina concert tonight (if it's being broadcast in HD - I don't know).

I also noticed that the SD commerical breaks are normal 4:3 which I think is the better way to go unless they can get a decent up-convert like TNT has. NBC just needs to get a decent side bar setup.

I guess an email of congratulations is in order to WNNE & WPTZ for percervering.

Waltinvt; How much power are they broadcasting in? I cannot pull it in in Jericho near Burlington with my attick mount radioshack antenna. Thinking of trying a booster. Any ideas as to test stations (even analog) to use as guides to ascertain needed signal strength? Note I have not been able to pull anything from that way so far..but my setup is minimal; the smaller radioshack VHF/UHF and no booster..and its pointed at NY to get Mountain Lake PBS....Thanks.

Waltinvt; How much power are they broadcasting in? I cannot pull it in in Jericho near Burlington with my attick mount radioshack antenna. Thinking of trying a booster. Any ideas as to test stations (even analog) to use as guides to ascertain needed signal strength? Note I have not been able to pull anything from that way so far..but my setup is minimal; the smaller radioshack VHF/UHF and no booster..and its pointed at NY to get Mountain Lake PBS....Thanks.

I don't know for sure what the power is currently but I'm getting a signal in the low 90s on my Dish 942 which is a little higher than I get for the Vtpbs HD from the same transmitter location.

I know their engineer said they would be doing full power but don't know if that was right off or down the road.

I know that the HD signal is being relayed down to Mt Ascutney from Plattsburg but that's probably a microwave thing. I wonder if WPTZ-DT is actually transmitting or even capable of transmitting any digital from their current tower.

I also heard some talk that they were going to provide the HD signal to cable.

Thanks Walt. I picked up a 25db amplifier and it didn't help....even the Montreal analog signals became worse, not better, I think a bigger antenna and some exotic preamp might do it but.....you're right, I'm sure Adelphia (Comcast?) will pick up the transmission..making my transition back to cable at YE when my Directv commit expires appear all the better.

Thanks.

Over on DBStalk (link here -> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=443163#post443163) someone posted that the directv website for HD DNS eligibility was back up. However in examining our allowability for the national HD feeds it defeats that because of having decent OTA standard def signals! How does that work? Because the locals broadcasts in SD I loose for HD? I knew the recent laws were insane but not that insane.

PS Put in Castleton VT and you are ALLOWED HD nationals because the SD OTA is too weak. Time to "move"?

I do not get this.

Edit -> Now a read the disclaimer at the bottom of the Directv page and it says"..Under the Satellite Home Viewers Extension and Reauthorization Act (SHVERA) DIRECTV is permitted to transmit up to two analog feeds or one digital (HD) feed of LA or NY TV station network signals “for private home viewing” to “persons who reside in unserved households,” if they live in a market where DIRECTV does not provide local network programming..."

Thus confirming the insanity. Who wrote this law?

A little off topic, but does anyone know why Vermont's UPN station (WGMU) is not part of the locals on DirecTV? I know they're probably not obliged to carry it since it's a LP station, but it would still be useful if they added it, since there are A LOT of syndicated shows that have moved to this station.

What happened to the VPT PBS HD Channel 24-5? Blank screen for me and now they are multicasting on the 21-2, 21-3, and 21-4 channels. Would figure I'd gain one HD channel(WNNE) and then lose another.

What happened to the VPT PBS HD Channel 24-5? Blank screen for me and now they are multicasting on the 21-2, 21-3, and 21-4 channels. Would figure I'd gain one HD channel(WNNE) and then lose another.

Coach,
Not sure. I know a few times in the past year I've had 24-5 go blank too but it did still show a full signal reading - just no pic or sound. One time it lasted almost a week.

I got the following email today from VTPBS and it may have something to do with what's happening.


Greetings, Digital Viewers and Friends,

Just want to let you know that new FCC policy requires TV stations to
identify their digital channels with the same numbers as their analog
channels. VPT will make these changes Sept. 20:

Ascutney's WVTA Digital ch-24 will show up as ch-41 on digital set top
boxes.
Rutland's WVER Digital ch-9 will show up as ch-28 on digital set top
boxes.

If you have any technical questions, please get in touch with Rob
Belle-Isle (rob@vpt.org).

Thanks for watching, and if you're not receiving our monthly guide (analog
programs only so far), just let me know where to mail it, and I'll sign
you up for a complimentary year's membership.

Best,

Ann Curran
Community Relations Director
Vermont Public Television (PBS)
204 Ethan Allen Ave.
Colchester, VT 05446
(802) 655-8059
1-800-639-7811 ext. 8059
acurran@vpt.org

Well, makes sense as to why my hd-dvr has been picking up 41-3, 41-4 and 41-5 lately. None of them are the HD channel though. Looks like it might be down till they make the switchover complete.

Why is the FCC requiring stations to ID themselves by their analog channel? If they were smart, they would require stations to identify themselves by the channel they have elected to keep after the transition.

For instance, if there's a channel 10 analog that broadcasts on digital channel 59, they should still identify themselves as 10, since that is the channel they will return to. If there is an analog channel 57 that broadcasts digitally on channel 38, they should be identified as channel 38, not 57!

Well I'm sure everyone here has the same problem, can't get enuff HD, if any at all. Be it thru sat, cable or OTA. I'm tired of the run around, I'm tired of the wait, I'm just plain tired. Can't get local networks in HD from E*, don't want Adelphia, can't get any HD networks OTA. I guess those of us who live in rural areas are just plain screwed.

On the bright side while goofing around a few days ago, I decided to hook up a single rabbit ear antenna to my Dishnet 811, did a scan and it pulled up our local PBS-HD!!! I was floored. :eek:

Thought about putting up a huge antenna & shooting it towards the Albany area (my only fairly clear lines of site...SW, W, NW, NE ) to see what I could pick up in the way of HD, but the $250+ experiment would probably piss off the little lady...who then would end up killing me! When & if Mt. Mansfield ever gets things up and running, my chances up picking up the OTA signal are about as good as my getting all the major networks in HD by the end of today!

Why dosn't someone stick a friggin tower up on top of Killington that could cover the central portion of Vermont and then some!!!

I'm tired. I want my HD, and I want it NOW!!!

<snip>..........
On the bright side while goofing around a few days ago, I decided to hook up a single rabbit ear antenna to my Dishnet 811, did a scan and it pulled up our local PBS-HD!!! I was floored. :eek:

Where are you picking it up from ? If it's from Mt Ascutney then you should also be able to get WNNE-DT because they have an even stronger signal.

With the Pats big opener tonight just though I'd check if many (any) people in Vt are receiving any ABC digital stations like maybe WMTW or WMUR ?

With my Dish 811 I used to almost pick up WMUR on 59. I'd get a steady 49% signal reading with occasional spikes as high as mid 60s. Even got a lock for a few seconds a couple of times. Now that I've got a 942 and it doesn't pick up any of it.

Just looking for any possible way to get the game in HD OTA but probably not a chance. :(

Where are you picking it up from ? If it's from Mt Ascutney then you should also be able to get WNNE-DT because they have an even stronger signal.

The VPT channels are coming in as 9-1, 9-2, 9-3, 9-4, and 9-5 which is the HD. I think they're coming off of Grandpa's Knob, just west of Proctor. I need a better antenna though as I can't get a consistent lock.

Here's the article I found.

http://www.vpt.org/about/digitalRutland.html

Here's what's avail OTA in the Albany area:
Current H/DTV Channels Available in Albany/Schenectady/Troy-NY DMA:

Over The Air (OTA)-
6-1/39 WRGB-DT (CBS), Albany, NY 1080i
6-2/39 WRGB-DT (UPN), WNYA Albany, NY 480i
6-3/39 WRGB-DT (24/7 Doppler Radar), Albany, NY 480i
10-1/26 WTEN-DT (ABC), Albany, NY 720p
10-2/26 WTEN-DT (24/7 Local Weather), Albany, NY 480i
13-1/12 WNYT-DT (NBC), Albany, NY 1080i
13-2/12 WNYT-DT (NBC), Albany, NY 480i
17-1/34 WMHT-DT (PBS), Albany, NY 480i
17-3/34 WMHT-DT (PBS|HD), Albany, NY 1080i
19-1/36 WCDC-DT (ABC), N. Adams, MA 720p
19-2/36 WCDC-DT (24/7 Local Weather), N. Adams, MA 480i
45-1/43 WEWB-DT (WB), Albany, NY 1080i
55-1/50 WYPX-DT (PAX), Amsterdam, NY 480i
55-2/50 WYPX-DT (PaxWest), Amsterdam, NY 480i
55-3/50 WYPX-DT (Worship), Amsterdam, NY 480i
55-4/50 WYPX-DT (Faith), Amsterdam, NY 480i

Still awaiting activation:
23-1/7 WXXA-DT (FOX) - est. Oct 2005

Here is what i got from channel 22 yesterday!


Thank you for the email.* Our DTV plan has made it through the permit stage
and our building expansion and new tower installation is under way.* The
construction started a few months on Mount Mansfield.* Due to the short
construction season on Mount Mansfield, this project will take at least two
summers to complete.* After it is completed, we will get our transmitter
installed and on the air as soon as possible.* We are likely 14 to 20 months
away from broadcasting in high definition.* All the Burlington stations are
working together on this.* We believe our DTV signal will cover an area
similar to the area we cover with channel 22.

Thanks for the email,


Ken Kasz
Director of Broadcast Operations
WVNY ABC22

14 to 20 months??? BETTER MAKE IT 12!!!

Also, I find WVNY so arrogant, thinking that their DT-13 signal will cover the same area as their TV-22 signal. Not only is 10kw laughably inadequate compared to the 1000kw they currently use (I know VHF can potentially travel farther than UHF but there are limits :p ), they might also suffer adjacent-channel interference from CFCF-TV 12 in Montreal and, even worse, co-channel interference from CJOH-TV 13 in Ottawa and CKTM-TV 13 in Trois-Rivieres. As a result, WVNY will likely go from the most easily-receivable station in the region to the most difficult one.

WVNY seems to only be interested in saving on their electrical costs, counting only on cable carriage and faulty engineering estimates to calculate their viewership.

On the bright side, the manager of WCAX has confirmed to me that they have obtained WVNY's old channel 22 allocation to use for WCAX-DT post-transition. This eliminates the problem they had of having two "out-of-core" allocations (03, 53).

What is the post-transition allocation? Wil this means that the channels will change again in the future?




Foxfan wrote:

On the bright side, the manager of WCAX has confirmed to me that they have obtained WVNY's old channel 22 allocation to use for WCAX-DT post-transition. This eliminates the problem they had of having two "out-of-core" allocations (03, 53).

In February of last year, all stations were required to select which channel they intend to stay on after the transition. Some had no choice since no stations will be allowed to broadcast above channel 51 after the transition, and no one would want to broadcast below channel 7 because no one would be able to watch it with all the interference. Therefore, they had to wait for the other stations to make their choices, which cleared up a number of channels that they could now choose from.

In the area, only WCAX will be changing (from 53 to 22). Most others will stay on their currently assigned digital channels (WVNY-13, WPTZ-14, WFFF-43, WCFE-38).

Vermont PBS has updated their web site. They have pictures posted of the constructiion on Mt-mansfield.

www.vpt.org

Although WPTZ is grouped into that "cozy" little coalition in Burlington and their station manager has been less than forthcoming, their sister station, WNNE-DT down my end of the state has really been on the ball.

I've been getting some great NBC HD for a few weeks now. Although they've had their glitches along the way, I have to say, my correspondence with their engineering team has been exceptional. They've answered all my emails and phone calls with honest, straight answers; kept me informed along the way; and even thanked me for being involved.

Sure it took them longer than they antisipated to get a good solid digital signal up but the wait was a lot easier to take because they were honest and forthcoming with me about the progress AND the setbacks. That makes a big difference to a viewer and those other stations could learn a good lesson from this.

WaltinVt

Walt or anyone with WNNE-DT, does anyone have a signal at all? Think it's been down most of the day though I'm not for sure on that. Hopefully they'll get it fixed for tonight.

Walt or anyone with WNNE-DT, does anyone have a signal at all? Think it's been down most of the day though I'm not for sure on that. Hopefully they'll get it fixed for tonight.

Coach,
I flipped over to it last night a few times but never saw it come back. I didn't check this am and I'm not at my TV right now - is it back on yet ? If it isn't, let me know and I'll get an email out to their engineer.
Walt

Coach,
I flipped over to it last night a few times but never saw it come back. I didn't check this am and I'm not at my TV right now - is it back on yet ? If it isn't, let me know and I'll get an email out to their engineer.
Walt


It hasn't come back yet, still searching for signal. Let me/us know what you find out, thanks.

I've been lurking on this forum for quite awhile and, like the rest of you, have been patiently waiting for DTV's arrival in Chittenden county.

I just got to thinking, if you were a "betting man", who do you think would be the first affiliate to "go live" with HD capability and content from atop Mt. Mansfield? IIRC, the candidates are VPT (Public Television), WCAX (CBS affiliate), WPTZ (NBC affiliate), WVNY (ABS affiliate), and WFFF (Fox affiliate).

They all claim to be more or less on the same timeline. But I'm thinking that some stations are better positioned to be ready when the time comes than others.

Personally, I'd put my money on VPT, since they're the only member of the group who has any experience actually broadcasting HD OTA.

WCAX would be a close second, tho', since they've been HD over Adelphia cable for some time now.

As for the race for last place, my guess would be WVNY, since they seem to be the lowest-budget operation of the bunch.

I'm curious what opinions other folks reading this thread may have.

P.S. I live in a neighborhood with line-of-site to the summit of Mt. Mansfield from the West. I'll let everyone know when I start to see the new towers going up (expected to be late next summer), and maybe post a picture or 2 of the progress.

I heard recently that ABC in Burlington, VT bought the local FOX station. I believe this to be true as it came from a fairly reliable source, plus the Simpsons that used to run on ABC now runs multiple times a day on FOX If that is the case does anyone think that ABC would delay Fox HD to pump up their station's OTA HD?

Also, I pull PBS in HD (channel 57-1) from across Lake Champlain from my downtown apartment. Anyone in the area getting any other OTA HD besides this?

I heard recently that ABC in Burlington, VT bought the local FOX station. I believe this to be true as it came from a fairly reliable source, [snip]

If you take a look at Fox's website (www.fox44.net), and WVNY's (www.abc22.com), and poke around enough for contact information, you will find that they both have the same Colchester address and phone number, which proves the rumor to be undeniably true.

Also, I pull PBS in HD (channel 57-1) from across Lake Champlain from my downtown apartment.

That's encouraging. I get a snowy but watchable analog picture from WCFE using a home-made loop antenna in the rafters of my garage (my homeowners assoc. prohibits rooftop antennae). I wonder if this means I stand half a chance of getting a digital lock on their digital station?

VTTOM,

Well, luckily for you you're within line of site of the soon to be towers. Me on the other hand, I'm screwed being just south of Rutland. There's a snow-balls chance in hell I'll be able to pick up any DTV signal off of Mt. Mansfield. I barely get their analog signal.

PBS HD started broadcasting a couple of months ago off of the "GRANDPA'S KNOB" locale though. Which is about 12 miles NNE of me. I can pick it up but can barely lock on at 62%. Maybe a a better bowtie antenna would work for me. at least for PBS HD anyway.

Actually, it was WFFF's parent company (Smith Broadcasting) that bought WVNY, not the other way around.

Here's a message from Joe Krone at WPTZ (NBC) in Burlington, VT:

"Actually Yes we will. There is a period of time BEFORE the transmitter goes
on the air with full time programming that we are allopwed to test the
transmitter, Antenna, Feedlines and associated terminal equipment.
That will be on Ch-14 and the actual start date will depend on the weather
in the spring on Mt Mansfield and how soon the road to the summit reopens.
We actually have our transmitter and antenna here in a warehouse in
Plattsburgh and all of the rack mounted gear is there too. So we're ready
to go as soon as conditions allow!
By the way, our sister station WNNE-DT on Mt Ascutney has been on for a
little over a month and we have had a few problems with new equipment
failing. This is NOT an unusual occurance and we kinda expected it!"
Joe

Here's a message from Joe Krone at WPTZ (NBC) in Burlington, VT:

"Actually Yes we will. There is a period of time BEFORE the transmitter goes
on the air with full time programming that we are allopwed to test the
transmitter, Antenna, Feedlines and associated terminal equipment.
That will be on Ch-14 and the actual start date will depend on the weather
in the spring on Mt Mansfield and how soon the road to the summit reopens.
We actually have our transmitter and antenna here in a warehouse in
Plattsburgh and all of the rack mounted gear is there too. So we're ready
to go as soon as conditions allow!
By the way, our sister station WNNE-DT on Mt Ascutney has been on for a
little over a month and we have had a few problems with new equipment
failing. This is NOT an unusual occurance and we kinda expected it!"
Joe

I've been watching the WNNE-DT signal for a month now and although they've had a few glitches, it's been pretty darn good. I'm about 50 miles away (Bradford) and get a signal in the 90s on my 942.

The big problem though with Dish is that they don't allow you to get any EPG data unless you subscribe to their analog LiLs and then they'll just mirror that info instead of allowing the PSIP data through.

Informal poll here:

What equipment are you using to receive the (very) small handful of regional HD?

The reason I ask is that I currently do not own any equipment capable of receiving HD broadcasts (satellite, OTA, or cable). I'm starting to think about gearing up for the coming HD transmissions from atop Mt. Mansfield and am wondering what is the best way to go.

Anybody else been having mulitpath issues with WNNE-DT lately? I can change to the station and it shows for second then switches to searching for signal. I know I have a strong singal too, so I'm assuming it's within the mulitpathing. It happens on both my D* HD-Tivo and Bell ExpressVU 6100.

Anybody else been having mulitpath issues with WNNE-DT lately? I can change to the station and it shows for second then switches to searching for signal. I know I have a strong singal too, so I'm assuming it's within the mulitpathing. It happens on both my D* HD-Tivo and Bell ExpressVU 6100.

I'm not sure what the issue is. 31.1 disappeared although the sub channels are there without picture.

Yea, I'm showing them all with a strong signal but no picture or audio. This has happened with the VtPBS digital group a few times in the past too. I'll try to get ahold of the WNNE engineer as see what's up.

Yea, I'm showing them all with a strong signal but no picture or audio. This has happened with the VtPBS digital group a few times in the past too. I'll try to get ahold of the WNNE engineer as see what's up.

Sorry I didn't post this sooner. I actually got it the day after I left their engineer a voice mail about the problem.

"Walt, I got your messsage on sunday, Confirmed master control could
see, hear wnne-dt.
Then went into WRJ and confirmed set top box was working, it was . Long
story short we had an issue with a transport stream processor at the
mountain and a psip issue with the multiplexer in plattsburgh. one set
top box would decode it and another would not. Sorry for the hassle."

Not sure if this means it shouldn't happen again.

Just want to say thanks to FoxFan and the rest of the posters on thread.
With the info gather here, I'm able to pick up CBC-HD 20-3, SRC 19-3, PBS-HD 38-3, strength is 75%. My location is RDP.
The antenna is a 4bay Channel Master with a rusted grill. Old but it works !!!
Using an RCA DCT100 receiver
Josh

Northern Vt/Quebec HD OTA Enthusiasts; How strong are the Canadian HD stations mentioned? Any hope of picking them up in the Burlington area? Thanks.

The Canadian stations CBFT19 and CBMT20 are broadcasting at very low power, and from a relatively low altitude (a building's rooftop). I don't think they would reach Burlington...

I live only a few miles from them but still get a better signal strength from WCFE38

Northern Vt/Quebec HD OTA Enthusiasts; How strong are the Canadian HD stations mentioned? Any hope of picking them up in the Burlington area? Thanks.

You can try the power rating is 5.5kW and as foxfan said on top of building. There's nothing in the way facing south so you may have a chance .
Good luck, try tuning channel 6 on analog first.

Saturday has the Habs vs Leafs and Sunday The 93rd Grey Cup Final.
They showed the movie Chicago last week and the picture was outstanding.

Thanks experts; channel 6 analog is snow (like outside right now!) so I'll wait until they boost the power...any notion if they plan to do that?

They won't boost power until they are on Mt. Royal, which won't be done for a while since there is no more room on the current tower, so they'll either have to a) build another tower (which will send the greens bitchin' like in VT) or b) wait until analog shut-off (for which there has been no date set in Canada).

Thanks experts; channel 6 analog is snow (like outside right now!) so I'll wait until they boost the power...any notion if they plan to do that?

Try anyways it could be that channel 5 is too strong. What I love about digital is that its either hit or miss, no in between ie snow.

I doubt that channel 5 would be too strong. They only broadcast at a quarter of what channel 6 broadcasts at (wptz at 25kw and cbmt at 100kw).

What STILL worries me is WVNY-DT. I don't know how a 10kw DT signal on channel 13 will come in right next to a 325kw analog signal on channel 12...

(())What STILL worries me is WVNY-DT. I don't know how a 10kw DT signal on channel 13 will come in right next to a 325kw analog signal on channel 12...

I don't know if a trap on channel 12 will be enough to kill it in order for channel 13 to come in. I already trap out 12: the channel become so weak, i can barely see anything but snow. Hopefully, that will work when channel 13 comes in...eventually.

Also, are we gonna have the same problem with Fox 44 and it's 43 Digital , and WETK 33 and it's 32 Digital??? Hopefully not!!!!

Tried getting CBCHD from Ile Perrot (Pincourt) no signal, 40km away from CBC building. I turn the antenna 90 degrees and got PBS HD at about 60 % this is at a distance of 80-90km.

Using a TS360 and 4 bay UHF antenna was only able to get about 20 feet in the air.

I've finally gotten an HD capture card (PCHDtv HD-3000) running in a Linux box I have set up. (This box also runs Mythtv, an opensource Tivo alternative, it's very cool).

Much to my surprise, Adelphia seems to be pushing quite a few digital channels over the line as well as regular cable. I'm not sure if that has to do with the broadband that's coming down as well, but I'll find out fairly soon when I shut that off ($45 a month for BB? come on.) Note: I don't subscribe to the digital package, just basic cable (up to ch. 77)

Anyway, I've mapped out the frequencies & PIDs for most of these channels, including WCAX, NBC (from somewhere, but not sure where). If people are interested, I'll be glad to post them. A straight scan came up with 307 hits, with about 60 of them being valid streams, including some 40-odd music choice channels. In the meantime, I'm trying to get the silly computer to play HDTV at a reasonable framerate, and will have more info as I have time to work with it.

That's strange. I am a digital subscriber and don't get a digital NBC. Please keep us posted.