Buzz, I took the liberty of starting a thread to ask some questions about your product. With permission from Alan Gouger.

Could you start by telling us a little bit about the formation of NetStreams the company - and its founders? And how you hooked up with them? Are you a principal?

Perhaps you could fill everyone in on your illustrious background as well :).

I'd actually like to hear a MSRP on some of the products..

and which digital devices does it interface with directly or is everything controlled via IR blaster?

Originally posted by QQQ
Buzz, I took the liberty of starting a thread to ask some questions about your product. With permission from Alan Gouger.

Could you start by telling us a little bit about the formation of NetStreams the company - and its founders?


NetStreams is a privately held company based in Austin, TX, the live music capital of the world. It is also an excellent place for companies involved in high tech, especially networking.
The company was founded by a group of people who had been part of the Connected Home Initiative. This was a joint R&D project with GE, Smart and Microsoft.
The founders of NetStreams saw much potential in the use of networking technologies to distribute entertainment in the home. That is the focus of the company.



And how you hooked up with them?

I was consulting and a colleague suggested I speak with them. I visited with them in Austin (I live outside of Boston) and was immediately captivated by the company vision and the passion of the people. I ended up finalizing my other consulting jobs and working with the company full time, running the sales and marketing effort.




Perhaps you could fill everyone in on your illustrious background as well :).

I spent quite a few years in retail, often in service and custom installation (although we didn't know to call it that back in the late 70's..).
I worked with Henry Kloss at Kloss Video making projection TV's, then was hired by Lexicon to get them into the consumer business (they were strictly pro until that point). I ran that operation for 13 years, then started consulting for other CE manufacturers. And here I am.

Buzz,

I notice on your web site (http://www.netstreams.com/PDFs/DigiLinX%20Overview%203.pdf) that DigiLinX can support up to 1,800,000 sources and 1,800,000 rooms. As Murphy's law would have it, I'm building a big house with 1,800,001 rooms. It's very important to me that I be able to play a separate soure in each room simultaneously (I have a large family). Is there any way I can expand the system to 1,800,001 zones? And I'm hoping I won't have to pay an arm and a leg just to add one extra zone.

OK, serious question.

NetStreams seems to work exclusively based on the concept of local room amplifiers. From what I have seen so far those amplifiers can be:
1. In/on the speaker.
2. In/on the volume control.

Are there other local room amplifier options? i.e.
1. In/on the keypad?
2. Separate standalone amplifiers?

What if someone wanted to use expensive Triad speakers as an example, and wanted to use the best amplifier possible with them. What would be the options?

Why isn't NetStreams offering a central amplifier (in addition to local amplifier options)? Couldn't NetStreams (technically) do everything it does and also use a central amplifier? Other than having the amplifier close to the speakers, is there some other major benefit that having the amplifier local offers, in the NetStream scheme of things.

I am going to download the manuals on the web site when I get a chance and read over the system. BTW, the web site really needs to be designed so that users can right click on the large Acrobat files and download them (since the site is all Flash, it won't allow it).

As soon as you send in the purchase order for that job, we'll handle your expansion.
The limit is in this case defined by the number of IP addresses in IPv4.
We can move you over to IPv6 and you can then populate every square foot of the earth's surface with your house and we still got ya covered.

BTW, where di you make all your money;)


Seriously, it is of course hyperbolic to talk about that many sources and rooms, but it is in theory possible. The really nice thing is the ability to add devices in the future with minimal cost, either in hardware or programming.

We avoid what we call the Tivo effect.
That's the one where someone with a nice house all controlled by say an AMX or Crestron system, then they call up their dealer to have them add in the Tivo they just picked up on sale for $199.
Then the integrator has to inform them it will cost $1200 to install and integrate the Tivo into the system. No one is happy with that!

Originally posted by dan marquardt
I'd actually like to hear a MSRP on some of the products..


The current products are designed for professional installation by custom integrators. They are not "retail" oriented and thus there is no MSRP.
to further complicate things, there is alomst always several solutions for each job and they vary in cost.
Perhaps the best benchmark would be to say that in a say common 4 source/6 room system, you would look at between $800-$2500 per room.
Variables include power required, color or mono displays (or none at all if you plan on using say a PDA or a big touchscreen).



and which digital devices does it interface with directly or is everything controlled via IR blaster?

There are two systems. The current Musica system talks with everything via IR or RS-232.
The new DigiLinX IP based system talks via IR or preferably Ethernet.
So if you have a rich source with meta-data (like a hard disk server or satellite radio) we extract and present that data for the user. And the information is displayed on an web browser enabled device.

One of the options in the DigiLinX system is an internal XM Satellite Radio card (likely we will be offering Sirius as well if there is demand for it).
It makes a great source as there is lots of information contained in the stream that we can show the user, making it really easy to control what you are listening to, even for non geeks:cool:

We love devices that are networkable. For example, the AudioReQuest units. Normally they have only one output, so if you want to have multiple listeners in the house be able to hear different music, you have to buy multiple AudioReQuest servers.
But with DigiLinX, we talk to the unit via Ethernet and can extract multiple streams for a single unit. The cost saving there can pay for an entire system! BTW, we do our streams uncompressed so it's not just MP3 type files we deal with, but we can also take and distribute a direct digital out from a CD player and accept the full 16 bit signal. It sounds great!

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
The new DigiLinX IP based system talks via IR or preferably Ethernet.
Or RS-232 when Ethernet is not available I hope?

There are lots of RS-232 to Ethernet converters available.
We just showed our own at CEDIA that has firmware embedded for controlling our musica system (non-IP based audio distribution).

RS-232 is not a problem, but is slow and cumbersome and will rapidly be ditched in favor of Ethernet ports. They will become ubiquitous on everything from TV's to CD players.

Our industry has been crying for a standardized control interface and we finally have one. And it's one the rest of the world already uses extensively.

Agreed, I just thought it would be nice to have RS-232 built in as I see it sticking around for quite a few years before everything switches over the Ethernet. But I can see where it makes sense for you to not put in on and not make people that don't need it pay for it.

Yes, I would LOVE to see a standardized interface. I would love to never have to look at another bleeping%$#! IR emitter again!

Originally posted by QQQ
OK, serious question.

NetStreams seems to work exclusively based on the concept of local room amplifiers. From what I have seen so far those amplifiers can be:
1. In/on the speaker.
2. In/on the volume control.

Are there other local room amplifier options? i.e.
1. In/on the keypad?
2. Separate standalone amplifiers?


The amplifier can be located wherever you like. There will be many amplifier options.
We don’t offer one “In/on the volume control.” But you certainly can mount one right next to a volume control if you just want an attenuator.


What if someone wanted to use expensive Triad speakers as an example, and wanted to use the best amplifier possible with them. What would be the options?


Use whatever amplifier you would like. We have a device called an Audio Port which allows local input and output. So you can use this device (called an Expansion Interface Module in the current Musica system) to add not only a local source but also a local amplifier of your choosing.. In the case of Triad, since the excel in built in loudspeakers you may wish to bury the amp in the wall along with them, but many amplifiers would not pass the local building code for that application. However, knowing how future-thinking Larry et al at Triad are, I suspect you will see an elegant integration offering in the not too distant future:cool:


Why isn't NetStreams offering a central amplifier (in addition to local amplifier options)? Couldn't NetStreams (technically) do everything it does and also use a central amplifier? Other than having the amplifier close to the speakers, is there some other major benefit that having the amplifier local offers, in the NetStreams scheme of things.

Some of the amplifiers may indeed live in the head end rack. It is of course not the best place to put it from a amplifier/speaker interface standpoint, but it may be the most convenient. We don’t really care where the amplifier is mounted.

That said, by distributing the amplifiers, you greatly increase the reliability of the entire system.
Amplifiers are inefficient and the byproduct of their inefficiency is heat. And heat is the enemy of longevity in electronics. So if you separate the amplifiers away for the rest of the electronics, in theory you have increased the longevity of your components.

I am going to download the manuals on the web site when I get a chance and read over the system. BTW, the web site really needs to be designed so that users can right click on the large Acrobat files and download them (since the site is all Flash, it won't allow it).

Arrghh, I am wrestling with that as we speak.
Flash is cool but we will be making some changes to make it easier to get at info. I appreciate the feedback.

Hi Buzz,

Thanks for taking time here to help educate users and dealers alike!

The new products are definitely interesting...but nobody wants to settle. When do you guys plan to take on Video with the same networked distribution approach?

I finally just came around to spec'ing a simple job with a Musica system last month and now I'm looking forward to learning a lot more about Netstream's new gear.

Do you guys have open doors in Austin to dealers? I might have to bring a crew down for a tour.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design
Fort Worth, TX

I already know the answer to this but perhaps others might wish to know the recommended wiring for the new DigiLinX system. It is a little unusual.

Alan

Originally posted by audiblesolutions
I already know the answer to this but perhaps others might wish to know the recommended wiring for the new DigiLinX system. It is a little unusual.

Alan


Hi Alan,

Apparently you were by the booth, I am very sorry we didn't connect.

I consider our wiring to be, as the Brits would say, bog standard.

It is simply 14/4 and CAT 5e. That is the way nearly all distributed audio systems are wired (and as you well know, very standard practice for any professional installer as it maximizes options.

But,,,,(and there is always that but), we do suggest something currently unusual.

We like to see CAT 5e pulled all the way to the speakers.

There are two reasons for that.
First, we like to see the amplifier as close to the speaker as possible. That is certainly nothing new or radical, and it is the preferred placement from both a loudspeaker and amplifier designer's viewpoint. It minimizes power loss and increasing damping factor and control.
It also lends itself to using some of the DSP in a SpeakerLinX module to perform the crossover functions in the digital domain and bi-amplifying the speaker. That is an ideal scenario.

The second reason has to do with our view that the speaker may well become more then a one way audio transducer. We are starting to cram so much technology into rooms that people are objecting to all the devices mounted into the ceiling and walls.

For example a room might have controls for HVAC, Ir reception and transmission, lighting, intercom, security, audio, telephony, baby monitoring, wireless access points, etc. That's a lot of stuff on the walls!

If we can move some of these functions into either a universal keypad (Hmmm, should it be IP powered:cool:) or the speaker, we have saved a lot of real estate in the room, reduced clutter and cut down on material cost, labor etc.

Perhaps we don't want anything but a simple light switch on the wall. Since we are installing speakers for sound, perhaps we should integrate a small mic into it, as well as an IR receiver and perhaps put in a PCMCIA slot.
Now our "speaker" is also able to handle intercom, security monitoring, voice mail, paging, IR reception etc. One of the things we realized too is that metal mesh grill on the speaker can be utilized as a very high performance WiFi antenna.

So we see the speaker as more then a speaker.
We think of it as a gateway. We have quite a few patents pending on aspects of this.

To recap, we suggest the standard 14/4~CAT 5e from the headend to each room. The only extra bit we suggest is to continue the CAT5e portion up to the speaker, rather then stopping at the keypad location.
Of course, if it is a retrofit and the CAT 5e does stop at the keypad location, that is absolutely no problem. Just mount the amplifier there.

The amplifier could, as previously observed in this thread, be mounted out at the head end as well. The system does not "care" where the amplifier is located.

Originally posted by bhuskins
Hi Buzz,

Thanks for taking time here to help educate users and dealers alike!

The new products are definitely interesting...but nobody wants to settle. When do you guys plan to take on Video with the same networked distribution approach?


That is next years main project.


I finally just came around to spec'ing a simple job with a Musica system last month and now I'm looking forward to learning a lot more about Netstream's new gear.

Do you guys have open doors in Austin to dealers? I might have to bring a crew down for a tour.


YOu'll love installing Musica. It is quick, easy and intuitive to install. We get incredibly nice feedback from people who own them. They love the ease of use and especially the aesthetics. We sometimes get so into the technical side we forget how important it is to have an understated, elegant look.

We would be delighted to arrange a tour. We have a very nice facility in Austin (and it is of course a great city to visit). Most of a facility tour might be a little boring as you'd just see the backs of lots of people coding away on their workstations:D

We'll also be doing road show presentations late this Fall, including one in Dallas over at AVD (their showroom is even nicer then ours). And it is a bit less of a road trip then Austin.

Mike knows who I am - much to his dismay. And I did see you run in and out of the booth. But for a change I kept my mouth shut

Alan

Hooo boy........:D

Buzz - when will the digital system be available? I'm on the verge of a purchase and I'm not sure how long I can hold out...

Buzz,
Hate to be pest, but DigiLinX's press release says Q4 2003 as when the product will be shipping. Is this still the case?

Also, can you throw up some DigiLinX pictures on your website? Especially some of the KeyLinX and UI would be highly appreciated.

Originally posted by Tech-Law
Buzz - when will the digital system be available? I'm on the verge of a purchase and I'm not sure how long I can hold out...


Then get a Musica system now and we'll upgrade you when DigiLinX ships.
Never wait if you don't have to. Life is too short!

Originally posted by midi-guy
Buzz,
Hate to be pest, but DigiLinX's press release says Q4 2003 as when the product will be shipping. Is this still the case?

There are many possible components to the system, but right now that is our best guess. Hardware is done, so it's finishing code and test, test, test.



Also, can you throw up some DigiLinX pictures on your website? Especially some of the KeyLinX and UI would be highly appreciated.

there is a lot to do on the site at the moment, particularly as it all in flash at the moment. You may have to bare with us a bit for that. Any particular UI you are interested in?

You got it as long as the upgrade be free of charge for us AVS Forum guys?

Actually the goal is to provide it for only the difference in cost between the two systems, which would be a very sweet deal (kinda like a free rental of the Musica system).
We are working on the details of that now.

Would the required wiring be applicable to both systems or would I have additional wires for the Musica system that would not be used for the DigiLinx - or vice versa?

The wiring is identical for both Musica and DigiLinX, right down to the terminations.
The only difference is the flexibility of amplifier mounting positions for DigiLinX. Many people are looking to mount the amp right at the speaker. Where ever it is mounted, you would like CAT 5e connection to it.

With Musica, the amplifier is attached to the keypad so there is the temptation to end the CAT 5e run right there.

We have always suggested the installer pull 14/4~CAT 5e from the head end to the keypad location, drop a service loop there then continue the wire right up to the speaker. Following that practice ensures maximum compatibility.

Feel free to contact me directly if you need more specifics.

I second the request for photos of the DigiLinx systems on your website.

I'll attach a few interface images here.
The screens are grafted onto a crude keypad image, but they help get the point across ( I Hope):cool:

KeyLinX normal mode (playing source XM)

PDA style interface (browsing artist list on AudioReQuest).

Simple Web browser interface, (whole house blueprint view)

Small (2x20) SpeakerLinX module mounted on Polk RC85i inwall.

That looks so cool Buzz. I wish it were available now - unfortunately I need to move forward on an analog soultion very soon.

Whatever system you go with, Musica or other, do your self a favor and make sure there is a minimum of both speaker wire and CAT 5e from the head end, all the way out to at least one of the speakers.
Sooner or later you'll want a system that can stream audio and video, and give you access to meta data. That wiring infrastructure will handle just about any distributed audio system.

In October we will begin a network interface for the Musica system that will allow you to control the music system via any web browser equipped device on the network.

Buzz,
I have a connectivity question. I currently have a Onkyo 5.1 receiver currently driving my home theater w/ a sat/tuner/mp3/dvd. The only current audio I have in the house is a 5.1 speaker system in the living room w/ the all of the above equipment. I want a 4 zone system. I am adding speakers to the bathroom, master bedroom and back patio. I would like the sources above to be played both through the musica system as well as my current home theater. I would also like the living room to be a zone without having to add additional speakers. After reading the info on the website, I am pretty sure the system can do it, I am just having trouble visualizing the connections that need to be made how the control is going to work.

Thanks,
Jason

No problem!

Consider your living room/home theater to be the main "head end" where all you sources are. This is where you wil locate all your sources as well as the main ADC (Audio Distribution Center) for the Musica system.

In that room you don't need a keypad as you already having the Onkyo in there, but it might be nice to have the same interface in all the room.

You will want to get a few "Y" connectors so your sources can be shared between the Onkyo and Musica.

If you chose to put a keypad in the living room, you would use that as a control/preamp, but not connected directly to the speakers; the Onkyo would still be driving them.

There you would use an Audio Port to have line level output into your receiver.

I hope this clarifies it enough.

I'll post an image on an Audio Port later.

Yep, I think that clears things up for me. One more question though. I saw some info on the website about integration with Crestron/AMX. I would like to integrate the Musica with my HAI Omni panel. Has Netstreams done any work with HAI for integration purposes? Or, have any users here done any Netstreams/HAI integration? I will post the same question on some HAI forums also.

Thanks,
Jason

Buzz,

I understand that Atlantic Technology showed a system called SystemLine at CEDIA which sounds similar to your Digilinx in which CAT5 cable is run throughout and the amplifier (Class D) is at one of the speakers. Also there is no need for a key pad because the speaker also has an IR receiver built into it and a room would have a remote control. However if a keypad is desired that is an option. Also the source components can be placed anywhere within the house and be shared through the SystemLine system. How does this compare to your approach.

Dave

Originally posted by David Guill
Buzz,

I understand that Atlantic Technology showed a system called SystemLine at CEDIA which sounds similar to your Digilinx in which CAT5 cable is run throughout and the amplifier (Class D) is at one of the speakers.

The SystemLine system is not new, it was originally developed by QED in the UK a while ago. This is a little better twist on it as the amplifiers are mounted at the speakers. This assumes you are using their active speakers. But what if you want to use something better?
I like Atlantic Technology speakers and think they represent a good value, but I'd hate to be stuck with out choice.

But the huge difference is that DigiLinX is an IP based system that transports audio and control using networking open standards.
The first and most obvious advantage is the ability to handle streaming sources as native devices. Simply put, we interface with hard drive stored music as your computer does. So you can navigate through your music library, sorting by artist, album genre etc.
With the QED system, you can?t see or control a hard disc based system.
This also goes for XM or Sirius. Anything with ID tags becomes a completely controllable, navigable source.
Without this, being able to distribute sound from a computer or say an AudioReQuest, really does not mean much. All you can do is, maybe, start playing. You have no control over what. It will just come in whatever order the computer is spitting it out in. And you can only play one song at a time. We can extract multiple songs from a single source like that. Imagine 6 different rooms all playing different music form a single AudioReQuest!

DigiLinX distributes audio in IP packetized format. Degradation is not a problem provided you follow standard networking practices. In fact, we distribute all the audio completely uncompressed, regardless of how many sources or how many room.
There are no practical limits to how many sources or rooms you can expand to.





Also there is no need for a key pad because the speaker also has an IR receiver built into it and a room would have a remote control. However if a keypad is desired that is an option.

But how do you then see what you?re doing, what you are controlling. With an IP based system like [I[DigiLin[/I]X, you can use a huge variety of controls. Anything with a web browser can give you as simple or as deep and rich an interface as you want. Of course you can still use a simple remote control or a simple keypad. Or both!
How big a display would you like? In the wall? In your hand? On your 10? HD projector? Remember, anything that can display a web browser can control our system.


Also the source components can be placed anywhere within the house and be shared through the SystemLine system. How does this compare to your approach.

Sure, you can take any local source and share it. It actually creates a networked source, available to any location.


Realistically, although on the surface they would seem to compare, they are really apples and oranges.
SystemLine is a good application and reasonably cost effective. But it is not designed to handle networked sources and that is the direction that home entertainment networks are going.

Hey Buzz - stop posting details to make us all salivate and get the thing out the door!

Just teasing of course... ;-)

Buzz,

Very interesting. I have heard that the SystemLine is also IP based and uses the concept of streaming audio. I don't know if it is based on the QED system or not. I have only cursory info on it but it will be interesting to see which gets to market first and (more importantly) whether the public adopts this way of distributing audio/video. It seems to be a reasonably cost effective way of providing audio (and potentially video) throughout a house even to the outside patios, porches, pools and gardens.

Sorry for joining in on this late... I've read thru the whole thread, and I must admit that as a newbie much of this seems to be going over my head. But I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction for what I'm looking to accomplish:

We want some form of "whole-house audio". It doesn't need to be super fancy... and the less expensive, the better. The house is under construction, so I want to at least get the wires in the walls, even if I don't actually get the equipment for a bit longer. There is no budget at this time, since I have no inkling of how much a budget would need to be.

Here's my hot list, and based on what I understand of this thread, it looks like your system is more than capable of doing this:

A) Listen to a single source (XM) in any room of the house. One XM station in all rooms is fine, but different stations in each room would be nice if the extra cost is reasonable.

B) I could "re-use" my XM PCR based on a PC located in the kitchen as a source to save costs if necessary, but channel control and song info in each room is a definite bonus.

C) Able to turn on/off the music and set the volume level in each room.

D) Open for future expansion.

E) Low cost.

Based on this...

What exactly is the equipment I would need to accomplish this, and what is a ballpark of cost?

What wiring do I need to put into the house? (I'm looking at 8 "rooms", including my garage and patio. There will be a future HT in the basement.)

And if you can keep it in terms an AV dunce like me can understand, I'd appreciate it. :p

Why do you want to use XM. If you have Directv then use those music channels. I am not a big proponent of XM or Sirius for home use.

However, the simplest most cost effective way to do this is to run 14/4 and CAT5 cable from your "sources" location to where your keypad/volume controls would be. Then from your keypad/volume controls run 14/2 to each speaker location in that zone. Also pick one of the speakers and run cat5 to its location. Do this for all 8 rooms and you are done with the pre-wire. Finally, you would run a CAT5 cable between the speaker pairs.

As far as costs are concerned you can keep it inexpensive by using an impedance matching speaker selector at the source location. One with eight ports, lots of vendors make them Speakercraft (http://www.speakercraft.com), Niles (http://www.nilesaudio.com) and Russound (http://www.russound.com) among others.

You would also be wired to use the new IP based systems which are on the horizon.

Originally posted by David Guill
Buzz,

Very interesting. I have heard that the SystemLine is also IP based and uses the concept of streaming audio. I don't know if it is based on the QED system or not. I have only cursory info on it but it will be interesting to see which gets to market first and (more importantly) whether the public adopts this way of distributing audio/video. It seems to be a reasonably cost effective way of providing audio (and potentially video) throughout a house even to the outside patios, porches, pools and gardens.


There is very little information about their system, but what is found on the QED site (http://www.qed.co.uk/multiroom/sys_feat.html) and in Atlantic Technologies press release (http://www.hometoys.com/show_news.php4?section=enhancedview&id=15432201) indicate it is simply an analog system with IR control.


I have no doubt that this is the way the entire industry is going because it simply makes sense. IP is one of the only world wide standards. Think about it: We don't even use the same electrical standards around the world. But every computer can communicate with other, regardless of location, platform, operating system, etc.

And with music and video moving off of physical media distribution and towards streaming and local hard disk storage, IP is really the only logical way to address control and distribute it.

Originally posted by David Guill
Why do you want to use XM. If you have Directv then use those music channels. I am not a big proponent of XM or Sirius for home use..

I find there is a huge difference between the music libraries that the two offer. I think both XM and Sirius are far superior if you are going to use them more then once or twice a month. There is way too much repetition on the Directv and cable music channels.

Buzz,

I have no doubt that this is the way the entire industry is going because it simply makes sense. IP is one of the only world wide standards. AGREED :) this is the future for audio as well as video eventually with greater bandwidth. What about the 802.11a or b standard for wireless "Internet" communications. I guess one would still require power to the modules. Anyway, the Atlantic Technologies version of SystemLine is IP based which apparently is a modification/upgrade from the QED Systemline.

When is the expected delivery date for the DigiLinX system. Being a software developer myself I know how long software development can take and some of the pitfalls one can fall into when integrating with new hardware components. In system development the hardware is often the easier component to build and the software cleans up the mistakes and problems that hardware could not fix. Being a commercial product you will probably release as quickly as possible then release subsequent versions of the software as developers/users discover problems. This unfortunately has been the SOP for software development.

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
I think both XM and Sirius are far superior if you are going to use them more then once or twice a month.
...And both already have units coming on the market with full RS-232 feedback, an invaluable feature we have yet to see on a DirecTV receiver (hell, it's hard to find a DirecTV receiver that even has discrete on/off). But I digress...:)

Originally posted by David Guill
, the Atlantic Technologies version of SystemLine is IP based which apparently is a modification/upgrade from the QED Systemline.



What leads you to believe that?

Originally posted by QQQ
...And both already have units coming on the market with full RS-232 feedback, an invaluable feature


RS-232 is nice but totally lame compared to what happens when you network them and extract meta data.




We have yet to see on a DirecTV receiver (hell, it's hard to find a DirecTV receiver that even has discrete on/off). But I digress...:)

Have you looked into the new "networked" Replay 5500 series? I have not yet delved into all that they offer, but it looks interesting.

Originally posted by David Guill
When is the expected delivery date for the DigiLinX system. Being a software developer myself I know how long software development can take and some of the pitfalls one can fall into when integrating with new hardware components. In system development the hardware is often the easier component to build and the software cleans up the mistakes and problems that hardware could not fix. Being a commercial product you will probably release as quickly as possible then release subsequent versions of the software as developers/users discover problems. This unfortunately has been the SOP for software development.


I hear ya!
The hardware is done.
So it's "just software".
We're looking at a few more months yet, but it is already quite exciting (and it sounds fabulous)


Test, test and re-test.
Fortunately everything is in flash so bug fixes and upgrades as well as enhanced functionality are relatively easily achieved.

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
RS-232 is nice but totally lame compared to what happens when you network them and extract meta data.
I know I know I know already - RS-232 sucks and Ethernet is the future :D. But right now I'll take what I can get.
Have you looked into the new "networked" Replay 5500 series? I have not yet delved into all that they offer, but it looks interesting.
I've been a little hesitant to since they seem to have no market share, and no alliances with satellite receiver manufacturers, which doesn't bode well for the future. But yes, the product itself looks interesting.

Originally posted by QQQ

I've been a little hesitant to since they seem to have no market share, and no alliances with satellite receiver manufacturers, which doesn't bode well for the future. But yes, the product itself looks interesting.

I might bite on one, it looks kinda interesting and I've put off a PVR long enough. I'll let you know how it is if I ever get a chance to get it in and play with it. It does look interesting. And being #2, they seem to be trying harder:)

I have a 4000 series ReplayTV and I swear by it. The 5500 is even cooler. Damned the Sat alliance. It takes 5 minutes to setup and you never go back like Tivo. Picture quality is quite good and it has discrete power commands. ReplayTV guys didn't even know they had them but as I have the damned thing in the lab I can say they do!!!

And the idea of streaming recordings in real time, the ability to control any unit form any other I would relegate my Tivo to the same place my CNMS is: a boat anchor.

Alan

Thanks Alan. I hate DirecTV and Tivo more every day anyhow. I think I'll try one. I'm going to start a thread with some questions for you so we don't take this one further off course.

Originally posted by drsung
Yep, I think that clears things up for me. One more question though. I saw some info on the website about integration with Crestron/AMX. I would like to integrate the Musica with my HAI Omni panel. Has Netstreams done any work with HAI for integration purposes? Or, have any users here done any Netstreams/HAI integration? I will post the same question on some HAI forums also.

Thanks,
Jason


We have not yet done any work on the Omni panel, but then you're the first person to my knowledge who has asked about it. No reason it can't be integrated if there is demand for it.

What leads you to believe that? Buzz, I heard straight from the horses mouth.

I know I know I know already - RS-232 sucks and Ethernet is the future . But right now I'll take what I can get. QQQ, Yes Ethernet is not just the future, it is here. The future is Wireless IP now that the bandwidth is their for higher quality audio streaming. Adaptation of the netstreams to wireless should be a walk in the park. I am and have done work with wireless and it is definitely doable and much easier.

Buzz, How mush easier can it get when all you have to do is provide power to the indiviual modules, low power at that. Not only that, but with todays battery technology you may even be able to get away with batteries for certain modules. Just think how easy it would be to put the batteries into the component, put the component in place and address each component from the software for an IP connection and start playing music. No more pulling cat5 for control, 14/4 for volume control and 14/2 for each speaker. Man that gets old
Buzz, the installers would love netstreams if installation was that easy. You would lead the pack since this multi-room audio is for the most part installed professionally.

Originally posted by David Guill
QQQ, Yes Ethernet is not just the future, it is here.
GREAT! I'm glad to learn that. Could you please provide me with a list of DirecTV, Sirius and XM receivers and AM/FM tuners that have Ethernet ports on them. I'm looking forward to getting started ;).

Originally posted by David Guill
Buzz, I heard straight from the horses mouth.

You mean one of their booth staff was claiming that at the show? Clearly the QED system is just an older analog head end amp distribution system with IR control.
All the descriptions, even in the AT press release, describe the same thing, with the difference of using active speakers (although they are only powering them over CAT 5):eek:
As you appear to well know, doing this via IP is decidedly non-trivial. And certainly the existing system has no basis for moving to IP distribution.
I'm thinking there is some confusion here.





Buzz, How mush easier can it get when all you have to do is provide power to the indiviual modules, low power at that. Not only that, but with todays battery technology you may even be able to get away with batteries for certain modules. Just think how easy it would be to put the batteries into the component, put the component in place and address each component from the software for an IP connection and start playing music. No more pulling cat5 for control, 14/4 for volume control and 14/2 for each speaker. Man that gets old
Buzz, the installers would love NetStreams if installation was that easy. You would lead the pack since this multi-room audio is for the most part installed professionally.

You hit the nail on the head. Although it might get old having the re-charge batteries too.
How about PowerLine networking and killing all the new wiring.
Sure!:cool:

GREAT! I'm glad to learn that. Could you please provide me with a list of DirecTV, Sirius and XM receivers and AM/FM tuners that have Ethernet ports on them. I'm looking forward to getting started :D AHHHH yes and there lies the problem. They must be integrated and a protocol to distribute them must be created. How long do you think it will take for Directv to do it? My guess is that XM and Sirius will be dead before Directv gets around to it. So it will have to come from other sources like netstream, Escient, AudioRequest, Atlantic Technology among others who are working on IP based streaming audio. The first integration effort would be to create a module which would take either the analog or digital information, reformat per protocol and send. I don't know yet if a protocol had been written for transfer of streaming audio over IP but that can be found out. Lots of work for Software people out there.

You mean one of their booth staff was claiming that at the show? Clearly the QED system is just an older analog head end amp distribution system with IR control. No, not booth staff. This came from one of their VPs. I forgot his name but I can find it out.

Buzz, with Netstreams how would one access a local within room device, such as a CD player or TV audio out to play through the inwall speakers? Also, is the Netstreams able to access an iTunes library on a Mac?

Originally posted by Prokopiw
Buzz, with Netstreams how would one access a local within room device, such as a CD player or TV audio out to play through the inwall speakers?

There is a device that fits in a one gang wall space called an Audio Port that has input and outputs. This can connect to either the SpeakerLinX module or a KeyLinX IP control pad.
The local source is then available as a network source (anywhere on the network!),




Also, is the Netstreams able to access an iTunes library on a Mac?

I personally don't know, not being a Mac guy, but I'l find out for ya.

Buzz,
I had a question I was going to e-mail you, but I figured everyone here might benefit from the answer. In addition to "traditional" Audio sources, I have a client who, much like many here, has taken pains to rip all of his music to his PC. Will there be some kind of interface possible to access this music like there is for the AudioReQuest? And if so what file types? Thanks for your time.

We will not be initially supporting PC hard drive use, only dedicated hard disk servers. First announcement will be Audio ReQuest support, other to follow. Supported file types will be .wav as well as "pre-ruined" compressed files MP3.

The units all have flash memory for the OS so other codecs can be added later, depending on demand/popularity.


One of the interesting things about the true networked nature is the ability to pull multiple simultaneous streams from a single networked source.

For example, we can extract 6 uncompressed streams from a single AudioReQuest which is normally a single user device....

I am familiar with the 6 streams you mentioned at CEDIA Expo, and there was also talk about a software upgrade to 12 which I am counting on as a Crestron/Arrakis killer at an extremely lower price point. Is there anything in the works for .ape or other file type support, or is the official word only .wav at this time?

AT this point the official word is WAV, MP3 and WMA.
We're focused on delivering all the components of the system first.
If I was to guess, I would say FLAC more likely then APE, but no guarantees on either....

Buzz,

Is the network interface for the Musica shipping yet? I ordered my Musica system yesterday and should be installing it next week. I will post a review of the system once I get it up and going...

Thanks for all your information!

Drsung

Originally posted by drsung
Buzz,

Is the network interface for the Musica shipping yet? I ordered my Musica system yesterday and should be installing it next week. I will post a review of the system once I get it up and going...

Thanks for all your information!

Drsung looking forward in reading your review.

Originally posted by drsung

Is the network interface for the Musica shipping yet? I ordered my Musica system yesterday and should be installing it next week. I will post a review of the system once I get it up and going...Drsung

Excellent!
Your timing is superb. The R2E network interface is indeed now shipping.
It's very cool.:cool:

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
Excellent!
Your timing is superb. The R2E network interface is indeed now shipping.
It's very cool.:cool: do you have more info on the R2E capabilities other that what is on the brochure.

The MUR2E Network Interface allows easy integration of your Musica system with lighting control systems,home automation systems and sophisticated media storage and playback systems. NetStreams has partnered with some of the finest manufacturers in the industry to offer you complete and trouble free integration beyond any other product in its class.

nevermind I found the MUR2E pdf. BTW, great device. I am very interested/curious to see how things progress.

Here's a screen shot of a web page for control of Musica via Pocket PC.
This page shows the general settings available.

nice & clean, easy to find to things, very cool Buzz! good job.

Buzz, I have another question for you. I got my Musica in today and I must say it looks great! The keypads look awesome and everything seems to be well assembled. I plan on hooking it up this weekend and I am sure will be quite satisfied. I currently have a xantech remote IR sensor and connecting block controlling my source equipment since it is behind closed doors. Can I integrate the netstreams with that existing IR setup? Worse case is I have 2 IR emitters on each of my sources, but it seems there should be an easy way to integrate the two.

Thanks for the info...

DrSung

It's not really a Musica question so much as it is an IR routing issue.
In essence you want to have what Xantech calls a two zone system
Check out the Xantech demo at
http://xantech.com/demo/v2_demo.htm#
(This is a shockwave demo)

Yes, I see how that works. But, what do I use as the output from the Musica system?

Sorry, I didn't think through your problem before. You really should keep the Musica IR outputs discrete.
How many sources do you have?

Is there a Musica keypad in the room where your Xantrch receiver is? If so, you can use the Musica IR to replace all of the Xantech gear...

Well, I ended up just putting 2 emitters on each of my sources. I do(or will) have a Musica receiver in the room, but it is behind the sofa so pointing that direction would be weird.

Now for the good stuff! The musica system ROCKS! I am very pleased with everything. The keypads are very easy to program and the entire system is very easy to operate. The only thing I have left to do is setup my 5.1 system as a zone. I forgot to get the Audio Port when I ordered the system but hopefully it will be in in the next day or so.

Also, I have an extra keypad or two(only used 4 of the 6 zones). If anyone wants to expand or has any other questions, send me a PM.

DrSung

Hi Buzz, have you seen this dvd player before? Amoisonic - NetPlay NDP9100

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=108&idnum=90

although the video failed the netmedia part of it looks pretty interesting.

Originally posted by drsung
Well, I ended up just putting 2 emitters on each of my sources. I do(or will) have a Musica receiver in the room, but it is behind the sofa so pointing that direction would be weird.

You could have run from a receiver back to Musica, but your solution works as well....


Now for the good stuff! The musica system ROCKS! I am very pleased with everything. The keypads are very easy to program and the entire system is very easy to operate. The only thing I have left to do is setup my 5.1 system as a zone. I forgot to get the Audio Port when I ordered the system but hopefully it will be in in the next day or so.



Excellent! Glad you found it so easy and sounding good.
Enjoy!

Originally posted by Jerry Pease
Hi Buzz, have you seen this dvd player before? Amoisonic - NetPlay NDP9100

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=108&idnum=90

although the video failed the netmedia part of it looks pretty interesting.


I have not seen that one Jerry.
I am sure there will be a few others at the Electronic House Expo next week. It is a very logical approach and ultimately will provide a very stiff competition to Audiotron.
SonicBlue (now owned by D&M Holdings as in Denon, Marantz, McIntosh, Escient) introduced a networked player last year at EHX.
Oriton make one as well.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=90123771&loc=111&search_store=8&searchitemnumber=EP9TDV

All cheap as dirt!

Remind me to update you on what was shown at EHX. It's usually not so crazed that I can't get around and check out new stuff at the show.

BTW, your theater is looking AWESOME. I love watching the process.
I just finished my ceiling last weekend, so I'm mostly done with mine. Not as big a construction job as yours, but it certainly makes me appreciate your efforts:cool:

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
Remind me to update you on what was shown at EHX. It's usually not so crazed that I can't get around and check out new stuff at the show. no problem, where is the show going to be?

BTW, your theater is looking AWESOME. I love watching the process. thanks! encouragement is very much welcome on a long project. :)
I just finished my ceiling last weekend, so I'm mostly done with mine. Not as big a construction job as yours, but it certainly makes me appreciate your efforts:cool: great! I am looking forward to see some pics!

BTW, I have been watching your product for awhile. Wonder why?

Hint ;)
http://www.jerrypease.com/a/img_c.jpg
http://www.jerrypease.com/a/img_b.jpg
http://www.jerrypease.com/a/img_a.jpg
http://www.jerrypease.com/a/img_d.jpg

:) 12,500' worth of low voltage cable (RG6 Quad Shield, CAT5e, Power, 14/4, 12/2, etc.) just waiting for hardware. ;)

That made me laugh out loud.
I had no idea the depth of you affliction!

Originally posted by Jerry Pease
no problem, where is the show going to be?

EH Expo is in Long Beach in the Fall, Orlando in the Spring.
http://www.ehexpo.com/


thanks! encouragement is very much welcome on a long project.[/QUOTE]

YOu're getting awfully close to at least the theater part.
I guess we should maybe release some products for the rest of your house...:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
That made me laugh out loud.
I had no idea the depth of you affliction! I know I need help. :D

Jerry, your mailbox was full, so I decided to just post to the forum.

I will be glad to answer your questions. Yes, I am a new dealer. I purchased it from the Netstreams distributor for my area which was Audio Video Distributing in Dallas, Tx. To my knowledge it isn't sold through any internet or retail outlets, only dealers. I also have never seen any of the equipment on ebay(I have an extra keypad to sell).

I am only using 4 of the 6 zones right now. I installed two 6 1/2" Proficient Audio in-ceiling speakers in both the bathroom and master bedroom. I also installed Proficient Audio indoor/outdoor speakers on the patio. That is 3 of the zones. The 4th zone is my living room which already has an 5.1 surround system. It is comprised of an Onkyo receiver w/ Anythony Gallo LCR and surrounds. I am planning on tying the living room setup as a 4th zone, but I am waiting on the audio port module to come in before I can do that.

For my sources, I have a directivo, a separate receiver(so I can listen to FM in 1 zone and watch tivo through the onkyo in the living room), a CD changer and a MP3 player.

I only have a small patio so I am hoping I will not need to add an additional amp for the outside speakers, but I might in the future. I actually haven't hooked up the outside speakers yet so I don't know for sure.

I am very impressed with everything about the system and would highly recommend it. The separate balance/bass/treble is very nice and the setup was quite easy. Although I am a dealer, I am a very new dealer and have just started installing AV equipment. I am a networking guy and my company is starting to get into Home Automation and Audio. This was the first distributed audio system I have installed(other than simple speaker selectors and volume controls) so I unfortunately don't have much to compare it to.

In the future I was thinking about adding the network port, but I just found out the cost so I am not sure I can justify it yet.

I don't have any pictures, but I have a digital camera so I could snap a few if you want me to. Let me know if I can help with anything else...

DrSung

thanks, I cleared my inbox. Sorry.

Buzz, is there an estimated shipping date for Digilinx? If you can't be specific are we talking winter, spring, summer?

Originally posted by QQQ
Buzz, is there an estimated shipping date for Digilinx? If you can't be specific are we talking winter, spring, summer?

Yes. To all.
DigiLinX is a system. There are many components and ultimately many choice. For example, there are 4 different control points, ranging from a single gang keypad to a full color touchscreen. Of course you can also use any interface with a web browser...
There are different amp options, switches and I/O modules.
First dealer shipments will be in the first quarter, but the majority of those are already spoken for. I suspect we will be on an allocation basis until late Spring.

Aren't there any pictures or info of the 4 different control points etc.? I have looked at what is on the site.

There won't be much on the site until early February.
If we do a sneak peak, I'll let you know.
There will be two single gang keypads (with and without intercom capability), a two gang combination keypad/color LCD and a full color touchscreen.
Again, you could also use a PDA, web tablet, super PDA or any computer as well.

Buzz,

I am assuming you guys will be at CES, right? I am planning on attending, so what will I be able to see on demo??

Originally posted by drsung
Buzz,

I am assuming you guys will be at CES, right? I am planning on attending, so what will I be able to see on demo??

CES isn't are kind of show at this point since everything we do is designed for professional installation. We're more into EHX and CEDIA (including all the regionals).
However, some of our strategic partners have our products in their booths, including D2Audio, Pok Audio and XM Radio.

I believe the most active demo will be in the Polk booth, where we will have an IP controlled Musica system as well as a DigiLinX system with a ReQuest server and some of the new high end Polk in-walls (which sound spectacular). I think that system will have web tablets, PDA,s and our new in-wall touchscreen.

There may be some others, but I will mostly be hanging out in the Polk booth on the main floor. Look forward to seeing you!

buzz,

This may be an unanswerable question but why has it taken so long to see a product like this? The advantages are so obvious, I just would have thought we would have seen this sooner.

When can we expect to see the equivalent for video? That will complete the picture. Can you talk about the challenges developing this for video? And what about things like HDCP/HDMI with regard to streaming video? Isn't that potentially a MAJOR problem (i.e. it may not be possible/won't be allowed to stream much HD material)?

Originally posted by QQQ
buzz,

This may be an unanswerable question but why has it taken so long to see a product like this? The advantages are so obvious, I just would have thought we would have seen this sooner.

There are many reasons why it has taken a long time to develop a comprehensive IP-based audio distribution system. The hardware to properly implement it is expensive. The development even more so.
The solution NetStreams is delivering is designed for professionals. Our requirements include bullet-proof performance for both the audio (uncompressed, no buffering, skipping, blipping etc) and the home data network (the data throughput performance may not be effected).
Trickier still is delivering the control properly. It is one thing to stream music, quite another to deliver feature-rich content and control from a wide variety of sources.
DigiLinX will, for example create and display music ID information on the fly (artist, song, album, even cover art) whenh connected to a network enabled device like an Audio ReQuest server.
The system is completely scalable and upgradeable. And very powerful.



When can we expect to see the equivalent for video? Until we see that, it's exciting, but it's half a solution. Can you talk about the challenges developing this for video? And what about things like HDCP/HDMI with regard to streaming video? Isn't that potentially a MAJOR problem (i.e. it may not be possible/won't be allowed to stream much HD material)?

We are firm believers in intellectual property and thus are developing a system which will comply with appropriate laws. This does make development more complex.

Can't wait to see it. This looks like it could be an absolutely ground breaking product. BTW, I re-worded my earlier post as calling it "half a solution" was not fair and not what I meant to communicate.

So is this thread dead?

Any news on this product?

Anyone install it yet?

Originally posted by fasteddielv
So is this thread dead?

Any news on this product?

Anyone install it yet?

There have been several products and concepts discussed here.
Musica is on the market and discussed a bit here.

The IP based system, DigiLinX is scheduled for 2nd quarter (some components might ship in March), with the video portions following at the end of this year and into next.

Is there any way to utilize 802.11G wireless with this system. I assume power would have to come from somewhere, but as far as dat transmission, if it is all IP, then this should be a doable option for retrofits no?

I think somewhere else in this thread wireless was discussed and I believe bandwidth was the issue. I believe controlling the devices is possible via wireless (pocket pc) etc. However, I am not 100% sure.

Interested in additional information on the relative merits of both the Musica System and the anticipated DigilinX system. Also interested in information on the ability to upgrade from one system to the other. In reading the materials on the Netstreams website both products seem great. However, the additional benefits of the DigilinX system versus the Musica system is not clear from the limited materials provided on the products website. How does the Musica system compare to, for example, a simple Niles Multiroom/source in features and cost? Opinions from individuals who are using the Musica system would be great, as well as comparisons to competing products. Thanks.

Buzz..

Whats the major advantage/Difference of your system over the Yamaha Multi-cast or the Denon NS S100

Dell

Buzz:

What is the status of the roll out of your Digilink system. It seems like there has been a decrease in talk on this forum about it. Has it been delayed?

Mike

I just got off the phone with Netstream and was told that the anticipated release of Digilink will be late 2nd quarter. I was told that pricing should be sent to distributors in "a couple weeks".

Considering how the date has been pushed and pushed back, I would take those dates with a grain of salt.

James

Always a good idea to take shipment dates on new products with more then a grain of salt (like maybe salt the rim of your tequila shot).

Although we were originally shooting to ship now, we're finishing development of a larger backbone for the entire system that we might use the same infrastructure for video over IP as well as audio.

By utilizing a common basis, we will be in much better shape to deliver the video portion (although that is still a ways off).

We have also been adding a bunch of new features, power and enhancements to the existing Musica system, so between these two activities, we've slipped the date for DigiLinX first ship.

I've not been involved with this thread for a while, I will make an effort to keep up to date here.

What features/enhancements have been added to the Musica system? What can we expect to see from Netstreams at the EH expo? I plan on attending...

DrSung

Buzz,

Please correct me if I am wrong. If I ask my Netstream dealer to wire and install keypad mounts for Musica, but to leave out the hardware, I then will be prepared to go with either product.

I ask because framing is about to begin and I will need to be prepared to begin wiring soon after. I would like to commit to DigiLinX, but who knows what the price differential will be.

Also, once pricing is announced I am am ready to commit to Digilink, how do I get on the "wait-list"?

James

Originally posted by drsung
What features/enhancements have been added to the Musica system? What can we expect to see from Netstreams at the EH expo? I plan on attending...

DrSung

We'll be showing enhancements to the current Musica system as well as previewing some of the DigiLinX system. We also have two training classes.

Originally posted by Suprfly2k
Buzz,

Please correct me if I am wrong. If I ask my Netstream dealer to wire and install keypad mounts for Musica, but to leave out the hardware, I then will be prepared to go with either product.

I ask because framing is about to begin and I will need to be prepared to begin wiring soon after. I would like to commit to DigiLinX, but who knows what the price differential will be.

Also, once pricing is announced I am am ready to commit to Digilink, how do I get on the "wait-list"?

James

You should have the dealer contact me directly and I will take care of the pre-wiring considerations as well as ensure you're inline for the components you need. Supply will be tight for a while. But we'll look out for ya!

Originally posted by SethGarfinkel
Is there any way to utilize 802.11G wireless with this system. I assume power would have to come from somewhere, but as far as dat transmission, if it is all IP, then this should be a doable option for retrofits no?

Indeed.
Since we transmit via IP, we're agnostic to the type of transmitter and receiver you choose. Generally we don't like wireless because of QOS (Quality Of Service) issues. But if you understand the vagaries and variability of WiFi and are willing to put up with that, there is no reason you can't use it.
Bandwidth is not an issue with our technology.

Originally posted by Dell0055
Buzz..

Whats the major advantage/Difference of your system over the Yamaha Multi-cast or the Denon NS S100

Dell

Our system is designed for reliability and quality as well as flexibility.
We deliver and control all sources, not just sources provided by a dedicated server.
And the system can deliver as many channels of audio, uncompressed, as you would like. Plus, we can synchronize rooms, so if you are, for example, having a party or working around the house, you can have the same music playing in all rooms.

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
We deliver and control all sources, not just sources provided by a dedicated server.
Could you please elaborate on that statement a little?

Originally posted by QQQ
Could you please elaborate on that statement a little?

The DigiLinX system distributes audio from analog, digital or native networked sources with a common user interface. The control of these devices is also provided for. Other systems for transmitting via IP only handle media that is stored on their integrated server (ie: MP3 files).
If you want to hear a CD, TV sound, FM etc, you, uh, well, you're stuck.
With DigiLinX any user can have access to any source from any room.

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
You should have the dealer contact me directly and I will take care of the pre-wiring considerations as well as ensure you're inline for the components you need. Supply will be tight for a while. But we'll look out for ya!

Buzz,

What would be the best way for my dealer to contact you?

James

Email is fine.
bgoddard@netstreams.com

Buzz,

1. Since it sounds like the video product is some time off, please comment on using your product for audio distribution with another manufacturers (Extron for instance) product for video distribution. Will there be problems syncing the audio with the video?

2. How would one go about integrating all the distributed sources from a DigiLinX system with a local surround sound system (I've seen no mention of an imminent NetStreams surround sound processor)?

Originally posted by QQQ
Buzz,

1. Since it sounds like the video product is some time off, please comment on using your product for audio distribution with another manufacturers (Extron for instance) product for video distribution. Will there be problems syncing the audio with the video?


There is not a large enough latency for this to be a problem.


2. How would one go about integrating all the distributed sources from a DigiLinX system with a local surround sound system (I've seen no mention of an imminent NetStreams surround sound processor)?

Any of the SpeakerLinX modules can have an Audio Port attached which give you local input and output.

DigiLinX was front and center at EHX today. I got a long good look at the system and found it to be VERY promising. Everything was working, the interface was running on a few different platforms. I saw a PPC, a few tablets, a larger touch screen, and I think a laptop, all running the front end as well as their in wall touchpads. Everything looked to be running quite smoothly, this product looks to be about ready for prime time. It was interesting to see the system creating its own menu from each amp. I will go back tomorrow and take a closer look. Today I just kinda spent some time in nirvana playing with this puppy. Of course at this point, everything was audio, but discussion of the video dominated my visit to the booth. It look like it will be quite easy to pull the XML data into whatever interface I might want to build, and easily control this system from a number of apps on the PC, although the interface that is built in, is quite functional without any outside help.

Originally posted by SethGarfinkel
It was interesting to see the system creating its own menu from each amp.
What does that mean? Are you referring to the system providing feedback for each amp/source?

I hope I am going to say this correctly, but I believe each Amp is it's own webserver which looks out to the available sources and then allows you to choose from them through any web-enabled device. The touchpads are actually running Windows CE. I saw this system myself today for the first time and spent about an hour just looking and asking questions. I tried to look at everybody there that had audio distribution systems and this seemed the best overall for several reasons. Simplicity in hardware, simplicity in the UI, and simplicity in the install. Plus metadata and streaming digital music that has the least amount of degradation because of the short run from the amp to speaker. If they can get the video going with this it will be absolutely killer. The interface is all in Flash so programming will not be as big of an issue if you want something custom, although what they have now is more than adequate. And Buzz, thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions even though I'm not an installer!

yup.. thats about the size of it.
I am an installer, and am really jazzed about this product after "kicking the tires a bit, and yes, after talking Buzz's ear off for a while. For people who are approaching this business (or hobby for that matter) from an IT frame of mind, this may very well be a "Killer App" that really shows in an affordable and fully functional way, where the industry as a whole is going. IP transmission of this data is where everything will be soon enough, and this product executes it brilliantly.

No I don't work for them, I am just even more pumped about it after spending more time over there today. I wont be able to resist going again to play around with it some more tomorrow.. Its that good.

Originally posted by QQQ
What does that mean? Are you referring to the system providing feedback for each amp/source?

Since each device (amp, control panel, distribution center) has its own IP address and web server, the intelligence is distributed.
He was referring to the creation of the user interface on the fly by the SpeakerLinX module.
It creates a dynamic Flash interface that can be accessed and controlled via web browser.

Here is a link to another overview of the system over on the XM411 site.
XM FAN DigiLinX Overview (http://www.xm411.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1313)

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
We have not yet done any work on the Omni panel, but then you're the first person to my knowledge who has asked about it. No reason it can't be integrated if there is demand for it.

I think there would be demand for it, I would want it.

Buzz,

I would also be interested in the ability to integrate Netstreams with the Omni Panel. I have just started construction on my new house and it will have an Omni Pro II panel installed. I am still in the process (with the help of my local dealer) of choosing the distributed audio system for the house. Both my dealer and I are very interested in the Netstreams system and its ability to integrate with an Omni panel would be a large plus.

Scott

If you're into it, you can download the Musica integrations manual to evaluate the controllability of the system.
Music RS-232 Protocol (http://www.netstreams.com/docs/Musica_NS-MU4601_Integration_Manual_2.0.pdf)

Buzz,

Sorry I didn't get a chance to say Hi at EHX, but you were quite busy talking everytime I walked by. :) Anyway, I have a question about the new Musica keypads. If a hook up a new AM/FM integrated tuner with my existing Musica is that Tuner then available to all other zones?

I was wondering what happened!
You should have just barged in. We were very busy all the time which is great for business but bad for friends.
By integrated tuner, I assume you mean the new keypad tuner we announced at the show. That tuner, being built into each keypad, is dedicated to that zone. You can have one for each zone if you wish.

If you desire a single tuner to be shared globally, you would connect any tuner (not the keypad built in one) to any of the 4 inputs on the ADC (Audio Distribution Center).

Hi Buzz,

I know that you're still working on the video aspest of your product, but can you divulge whether or not it will stream on Cat5 only or will there be a way to also stream over RG6. I'm sure you've heard that several companies have shown products that will do this.

YES:cool:

Buzz

Check your PM.

Buzz,

I am starting construction on a new house is a few weeks and will likely go with a Netstreams system.

Since there is no dealer in Anchorage and likely won't be, can I purchase directly from you? If not, how do you suggest I proceed?

Also, do you recommend Cat 6 cabling?

Bump up for availability in the next month or so!!

When will DigiLinx be available :confused:

Originally posted by David Guill
When will DigiLinx be available :confused:

This was answered on the previous page. Buzz said sometime around CEDIA I think

Indeed the first components of the system will be shipping by CEDIA.
There will be a major update on our website at the end of this month.

My distibutor has been dangeling the carrot for a little while now.

Distributor Says, "should be shipping in the next 30 days..." Well heard that one before. Can't tell customers.. this new thing might be avaible soon. Doesn't go over real big.

We have a few jobs comming up that I would like to be able to tell my boss. YEAH... ITS HERE IT WORKS AND SELL THE CRAP OUT OF IT. After spending the day at Xantech training... (I spent a good time of the training reading the review of Digi...) Get us our demo pieces. Need to get aquainted so we can put them in the bids! please.

I hear ya!
We've been working on it for 3 years. But it only ships when it is ready.

Ahhh man to that. Don't give it to me till its ready to go. A crummy first release can do wonders for future bussiness :)

Working on a Musica system today. Distributor forgot to include that little fact, the 50 watt Tuner Keypads are still in process. Always great when they sell our bosses on stuff that is not avaialble / doesn't exist.

Baited breath and hoping to get going...

Sorry about the mixup on the FM keypads. They don't ship until end of this month, but the performance is looking very good indeed. They are the most powerful keypad ever and the tuner is quite sensitive.

Musica question. Is there a remote code to select each of the sources directly. Like rather than going source source source?

I am looking at how this system can interact with a system in a room. The ability to go to specific inputs on the keypad will make a big differance on how to integrate the musica keypads. Are there IR codes for discrete (sp) input selection? Local In, FM,Souce 1,2,3,4, and so forth?

There is not an IR code for direct source access, but there is via RS-232 or via web browser using our R2E interface.
Also since the RS-232 hooks are there, you could use a device that converts IR to RS-232 and create pretty much any command you want. I believe Xantech makes an IR-RS232 converter.

buzz, i will definitely be checking your products at CEDIA!
regarding the digilinx keypads, is a separate speaker cable run required aside from CAT5? power for the keypad cannot come from CAT5, or maybe an external battery? i do not plan to use the internal amps because i would prefer using the room's local receiver/amplifier.
regarding the video distribution products, will it support component and/or DVI/HDMI?
thanks.

Originally posted by memnoch2
buzz, i will definitely be checking your products at CEDIA!
regarding the digilinx keypads, is a separate speaker cable run required aside from CAT5? power for the keypad cannot come from CAT5, or maybe an external battery? i do not plan to use the internal amps because i would prefer using the room's local receiver/amplifier.
regarding the video distribution products, will it support component and/or DVI/HDMI?
thanks.


The "speaker wire" (typically 16/4 or 14/4) is not used as speaker wire but instead to carry power (28v) to the components (including the amplifiers).

You can easily use an external amp, or couple with an external sub.
We do not attempt to power the components via CAT5E; little details commonly referred to as physics prevent us from getting adequate current to drive the amplifiers cleanly over those small conductor and even smaller connectors ( the system runs at 96k/24 bit resolution so audio quality is clearly important here).
Let's talk about video next year, but I will say we plan on distibuting hi-def.

Buzz,

Correct me if I am wrong. For the DigiLinx you run cat5 and speaker cable (16/4 or 14/4) from the "IP Audio Server" to each keypad. Now, Am I reading this correctly that the speaker cable carries the "power" to the keypads. The "speaker wire" (typically 16/4 or 14/4) is not used as speaker wire but instead to carry power (28v) to the components (including the amplifiers).

Originally posted by David Guill
Buzz,

Correct me if I am wrong. For the DigiLinx you run cat5 and speaker cable (16/4 or 14/4) from the "IP Audio Server" to each keypad. Now, Am I reading this correctly that the speaker cable carries the "power" to the keypads.

Not sure what you mean by the "IP Audio Server".
Each SpeakerLinX module (which amongst other things is the preamp and poweramp for the room) is a web server. It connects to the rest of the component via CAT5e, just like any network component. It can be powered with a local power supply or by a multi-output power supply (PowerLinX) back at the head end. This power is usually run over "speaker wire" meaning 14/4 or 16/4. Technically you could use romex or any two conductor cable of a reasonable guage. We recommend "speaker wire" for the prewire as you have the most flexibility in the system design. Suppose for example you end of having to mount the SpeakerLinX module powering the living room in a rack back at the head end. Then you'll want to use the 16/4 as "speakerwire". OTOH, if you mount the SpeakerLinX module next to the speaker, you'll use the 16/4 as "power wire".

If you mean by IP Audio Server, say a ReQuest hard drive music server, there is no need to be running speaker wire to it, or any other audio cable for that matter. It is powered via 120v and connects to the DigiLinX network with a singel CAT5e connection.

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
Let's talk about video next year, but I will say we plan on distibuting hi-def.

Can you elaborate on the video aspect of the DIGILINX product...no video this year...?? I was advised this was something coming out for october??

Barry

I really think that might be a helpfull little add on that could maybe be done on your end????

Adding the ability to take a remote code to direct source input woule make the unit far more flexable for working in with in room systems.

I could get more into it if you like.

Just trust me it would make the unit more flexable and easier to integrate in several situations I can already see poping up.

Just a thought... or more like begging! :)

Originally posted by Requis
Can you elaborate on the video aspect of the DIGILINX product...no video this year...?? I was advised this was something coming out for october??

Barry

It may come out in October, but that would be Oct 2005. All the DigiLinX product scheduled for release this year are audio and control, not video.

Originally posted by Darian
I really think that might be a helpfull little add on that could maybe be done on your end????

Adding the ability to take a remote code to direct source input woule make the unit far more flexable for working in with in room systems.

I could get more into it if you like.

Just trust me it would make the unit more flexable and easier to integrate in several situations I can already see poping up.

Just a thought... or more like begging! :)


I fully understand. All I can tell you today is it is not in there except via RS-232 (which again can be accessed via remote but requiring additional hardware). I agree with the desirability. Thanks for the feedback!

where are the updates to the website?

I am looking for something to distribute mp3s from a NAS server. Don't want to have server side software.
Will Digilinx be able to do this?
Thanks

The new site launches either Friday or early next week.
Sorry for the delay (Believe me, I'm sorry):(

Originally posted by Funky_K
I am looking for something to distribute mp3s from a NAS server. Don't want to have server side software.
Will Digilinx be able to do this?


Perhaps down the road.
Initially we will only support purpose-designed servers like ReQuest. We are focused on professionally designed and installed systems and the vast majority of our dealer prefer a dedicated solution.

Buzz,

With a ReQuest/Musica combo, what sort of data will be displayed on the keypads when the ReQuest is the source?

Thanks,
James

If you're looking to display meta-data from ReQuest, you'd need top use one of our TouchLinX units (which fit the same 2 gang footprint as the Musica keypads). Although part of DigiLinX, not Musica, you can use it to display ReQuest info as well as control Musica. The standard Musica keypads cannot display third party meta data.

That's interesting. What is the price differential?

Thanks.

James

Originally posted by Suprfly2k
That's interesting. What is the price differential?

James

Its not really appropriate to look at a price differential as TouchLinX is a 3.8" color touchscreen (actually running Windows CE and a custom load of Flash) with four hard buttons, a 4 port switch and a power in/out It is not an amplifier nor a dedicated controller like a Musica keypad (but is of course more flexible).
We don't set an MSRP on installed products, but I would imagine you would figure $1200-$1500 per TouchLinX screen.

So touchlinx runs $1200-$1500 per zone. How much for musica?

They are viable competitors, yet price is enormously different.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

TouchLInX is a color touchscreen, not necessarily a part of an audio distribution system. It can be used to control Musica or DigiLinX, or it could be used to control a Vantage lighting system or to view Panasoinc IP cameras or even surf the web,

There are three different keypads for Musica, so it varies, but I usually figure $600-$700 per zone.

Hey all,

Netstreams new web site is up!! Way Cool!!

Looks nice - Anyvbody get a MSRP on all of these yet??

ok, now that the web site is live, can you put up some of the technical information?

one of the primary things i'm looking for is how you are handling the traditional notion of "zoning". since all speakers are ip addressable, can i control any speaker for any keypad/panel? how is this controlled?

what does the protocol look like? is there's a proprietary API or can just send packets to a specific port(s) and the speaker will play?

is your switch mandatory for the system? are you planning on certifying other 3rd party switches? 100bt switches are commodity components these days.

thanks,

...alan

Originally posted by jpierce
Looks nice - Anyvbody get a MSRP on all of these yet??


As our products are designed for professional installation, you need to contact a certified installer for pricing, we don't set an MSRP as we the R makes no sense (it is not a "retail" product).

That said, figure anywhere from $800-$3000 per room dependent on interface, sources and amplifier types/sizes.

Originally posted by commike
ok, now that the web site is live, can you put up some of the technical information?

one of the primary things i'm looking for is how you are handling the traditional notion of "zoning". since all speakers are ip addressable, can i control any speaker for any keypad/panel? how is this controlled?

what does the protocol look like? is there's a proprietary API or can just send packets to a specific port(s) and the speaker will play?


Go to

http://www.netstreams.com/tl380demo.html
and give the flash movie a bit to load. You'll see the scrolling bar at the top can be moved over to select a specific room. When you select a room,what you're really doing is pointing the browser at the IP address of the SpeakerLinX module. It then serves up the interface you use to select the source, adjust volume etc....

is your switch mandatory for the system? are you planning on certifying other 3rd party switches? 100bt switches are commodity components these days.



We were surprised at how few (20% of what we sampled) of the switches we surveyed actually performed as they were advertised.
We cannot guarantee the quality of service we describe with other switches. That gamble would be yours.

Thanks Buzz, that helped.... and brought up more questions. :)

Is there a one to one mapping from room to speakers (ip addresses)?
For example, let's say I have living room, dining room, bedroom. Can I then also have upstairs (living room, dining room) and downstairs (bedroom)?

Is your interface published so that the system can be controlled via an external controller (crestron/amx, wifi pda, etc.)?

Thanks,

...alan

Originally posted by commike

what does the protocol look like? is there's a proprietary API or can just send packets to a specific port(s) and the speaker will play?

100bt switches are commodity components these days.

thanks,

...alan

We will have an integration manual that will help you with your integration questions soon. In the meantime we can help with some specific questions at support@netstreams.com

A few integrators in the New York / New Jersey area have been starting some work on the integration side and you may be able to study a few Crestron modules that are in construction for more help of how to control the system.

As far as 100bt switches, Buzz is very correct in that we have been sadly disappointed in our testing of many switches from even the most reputable of companies.

The way some of the switches reached commodity level was less of economy of scale and more of reduction of features.

When looking to specify switches for your jobs there are three major specifications that should be observed.

First does the switch fully implement the IGMP (Internet Group Management Protocol). Many switches do not support this protocol, which will make it very easy to eliminate them for your job. Clever but tricky switch manufactures have seen a way to improve sales and or margins by labeling the product with a term like IGMP snooping. The problem with this is two fold, first almost every switch we have tested did not implement the protocol correctly and second even if they did, this alone is still not a fully implemented IGMP switch.

Second what is the size of the multicast address space? Even though you could implement an IPv6 tunnel in an IPv4 address space and this would allow for more than 1.3 trillion addresses, your switch is the bottleneck. So you found a switch that has fully implemented IGMP, but it only has memory to store 255 addresses. This is CRAZY, it would be like a working in a 1000 story high building and yet the elevators only have 2 buttons available to use for selecting what floor. DEMAND that your switch have at the very minimum the memory to store at least 1K worth of addresses. A simple 20 zone Audio video distribution system with 4 users playing music and watching HD could use up more than 500 addresses at any given time.

Third and maybe the most important to us is the switch fabric. Because the switch fabric is one of the central building blocks in switching systems and routers, its capabilities and performance are vitally important to custom integrators. The Common Switch Interface (CSIX) was only recently established to provide a common interface around which system designers and the network industry can design. The CSIX defines a physical interface for transferring information between a traffic manager (network processor) and a switching fabric. This was defined by the NPF (Network Processing Forum). There are 3 benchmarks to observe.

Hardware Benchmarks: The hardware quantifies the intrinsic performance of the switch fabric such as memory speed, processing speed, port-to-port minimum latency, switch fabric overhead, internal cell size, and cell generation procedure that have a direct impact on the performance of the switch fabric. The hardware benchmarks study the impact of these features and of the switch fabric architecture on the performance.

Arbitration Benchmarks: These tests study the performance of the switch fabric under load with different traffic patterns and load distributions when there is contention between the packets. The primary goal of these tests is to measure throughput Latency, Jitter, and fabric performance in different scenarios.

Multicast Benchmarks: CSIX switch fabrics may support multicast traffic. And since multicast traffic is inherently different from unicast traffic, we need a set of specific tests to characterize multicast performance of switch fabrics. Performance of multicast traffic and its effect on the performance of unicast traffic is studied in these tests.


If you are designing or specifying a job for IP Audio Video Distribution, you must take these three specifications seriously. What we have done at NetStreams is to study and then test on the actual hardware. The SwitchLinX product is a very good value when you compare apples to apples vs. other switches that also conform to these benchmarks. And your question about will we provide a list of “known” switches that will also meet these specifications, the answer is yes. Look for that soon also.

I hope this helps you out,

- Mike

Originally posted by commike
Thanks Buzz, that helped.... and brought up more questions. :)

Is there a one to one mapping from room to speakers (ip addresses)?
For example, let's say I have living room, dining room, bedroom. Can I then also have upstairs (living room, dining room) and downstairs (bedroom)?

Is your interface published so that the system can be controlled via an external controller (crestron/amx, wifi pda, etc.)?

Thanks,

...alan


From an external controller you can look at the system in two ways.

First you could create a TCP/IP server and client symbol for each speaker. In the symbol you would enter the IPv4 Address and the port (default it 7000 for ASCII, or 15000 for raw XML). This is how many people will start to write the code for control.

Second you could create a single TCP/IP server and client relationship for the whole system (default IPv4 is 239.255.16.90) and then we will build new packets and redirect them. For AMX systems that already support multicast subscriptions this will be easy to implement. Since Crestron does not yet support Multicast UDP packets you will need to have a separate client and sever symbol for each device on the network, but for most any audio distribution system this will not be a great burden on the Crestron processor and as long as you have a ENET+ or newer Ethernet card this should not be a problem to program.


I am not sure if I understand your one to one mapping correctly. In the DigiLinX system you can control any single node (speaker) or any group of nodes (speakers) from any control node (Keypads or Touch panels) on the network or from any external controller. You can name them anything that you would like.

The integration manual will be published soon,

- Mike

In building the DigiLinx LAN how would this switch integrate with an existing LAN say for existing computers hooked togther sharing a cable modem via a router? Or do you recommend this being a standalone network which is not integrated with any existing LAN? If this switch can be integrated with an existing LAN, are there any performance shortfalls? For instance, can we still expect real time performance of the audio? Have you done any testing with this scenario?

Dave

really neat stuff! i'm also curious how to "bridge" my existing LAN to the DigiLinx switch. i would like to control the system using a tablet PC or PDA... i could save a lot without the TouchLinx.
from the XM411 review a while back, there was an AudioLinx system described that seemed to be a combination of the current MediaLinx and SwitchLinx. plus, it also has optional plug-in modules, one of which can be an XM receiver. will this product still be available? i also heard of your cooperation with Polk and their upcoming XM reference tuner. how will this integrate into DigiLinx?
will there be a MediaLinx with more inputs? can you cascade the MediaLinx using just one CAT5 cable? for example, i would like to distribute my DVD player and DirecTV receiver audio located in my rack. my understanding is, i would need a MediaLinx for each component. would i also need two CAT5 cables running to 2 ports in the switch or can i combine the 2 MediaLinx into one port?

Originally posted by David Guill
In building the DigiLinx LAN how would this switch integrate with an existing LAN say for existing computers hooked togther sharing a cable modem via a router? Or do you recommend this being a standalone network which is not integrated with any existing LAN? If this switch can be integrated with an existing LAN, are there any performance shortfalls? For instance, can we still expect real time performance of the audio? Have you done any testing with this scenario?

Dave

Hi Dave,

What we recommend is to connect your switch to our SwitchLinX, this will protect your home network from the Multicast flooding, and will also allow you to have full control of the audio from the devices on your home network. There is no shortfalls is this kind of setup.

- Mike

Originally posted by memnoch2
really neat stuff! i'm also curious how to "bridge" my existing LAN to the DigiLinx switch. i would like to control the system using a tablet PC or PDA... i could save a lot without the TouchLinx.
from the XM411 review a while back, there was an AudioLinx system described that seemed to be a combination of the current MediaLinx and SwitchLinx. plus, it also has optional plug-in modules, one of which can be an XM receiver. will this product still be available? i also heard of your cooperation with Polk and their upcoming XM reference tuner. how will this integrate into DigiLinx?
will there be a MediaLinx with more inputs? can you cascade the MediaLinx using just one CAT5 cable? for example, i would like to distribute my DVD player and DirecTV receiver audio located in my rack. my understanding is, i would need a MediaLinx for each component. would i also need two CAT5 cables running to 2 ports in the switch or can i combine the 2 MediaLinx into one port?

You would connect the SwitchLinX to a switched port on your home network. You will be able to control the system without the TouchLinX.

Your understanding of the AudioLinX is correct, however it will not be in the first release and yes it will have slots for XM tuner cards.

We have worked closely with Polk on their XM tuner. The plan is that we will provide the proxy for this device on our network with the MediaLinX product. And yes we will have a MediaLinX with 4 source inputs very soon.

What we would recommend is that you keep each MediaLinX on a separate port.

- Mike

From another thread...but still curious

I wonder if Netstreams has set a number for the amount of US authorized dealers for DigiLinX they want to maintain/not exceed?

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Also from another thread...

In regards to AVAD...

Mike (& Buzz), I guess the flip side to this is still the long-term support channel. AVAD is terrible with support - not just technical, but CS follow through, order processing in a timely manner, employee turnover in the sales dept., out of stock items that take weeks if not months to get in, etc., etc. The only reason I use AVAD now is in a "have to" type of situation. I need a remote or a distribution amp or something of that such and I don't have a direct account with the part's manufacturer. This is rare though.

I've been in business for 11 years and have annual 7 digit sales figures. When I first got started, people like ECD in Houston and ADI in Dallas were my friends, but I wasn't much more than a trunk slammer in the beginning. After I set up a few direct accounts in the first couple of years of business I found out there typically is a huge advantage in doing so. Margins increase sometimes 5-10%, better CS, better order fulfillment, better demo programs (unheard of in distribution - although I believe Netstreams has had offers for Musica Demo Packs through AVAD though), and also better rebate programs/terms/% off for prompt payment, etc. All of these things greatly impact my bottom line.

I suppose that even if most of these safeguards and value added items could actually be established at AVAD solely for Netstreams it still feels like going backwards.

Is their ever a chance of having direct dealers?

I know that AVAD helps Netstreams in the short-term, especially with exposure. I just hope that you can come up with a plan long-term that allows the good dealers (maybe once proven at AVAD) to go direct and cut AVAD out of the deal. Why do I want to share our (Media Design & Netstreams) profit with them? They do so little for my company. No offense to them, but they will always cater to the rookies.


One note as to the quality of Netstreams DigiLinX: I by no means think that because they are at AVAD does this make it less of a product. I as well as I think I can speak for QQQ have been excited about DigiLinX from the 1st talks a year ago on this forum. Netstreams support on this forum shows a strong corporate commitment to the industry and should help it in the long run.

Mike you had mentioned picking up gear in Austin and San Antonio. I assume you can pick it up at your factory/distribution center? AVAD is only in Dallas and Houston. I'm in the Fort Worth area, but I work all over the state, it would be nice to know I can stop in to pick up gear for a job in SA.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Originally posted by bhuskins
From another thread...but still curious

I wonder if Netstreams has set a number for the amount of US authorized dealers for DigiLinX they want to maintain/not exceed?

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

NetStreams is not looking for the amount of dealers that others like AMX/Crestron have for the residential market.

Because of the amount of Control4's raise, they will need to have the amount of dealers you stated times 4 just to make the VC's happy.



- Mike

Originally posted by bhuskins
Also from another thread...

In regards to AVAD...

Mike (& Buzz), I guess the flip side to this is still the long-term support channel. AVAD is terrible with support - not just technical, but CS follow through, order processing in a timely manner, employee turnover in the sales dept., out of stock items that take weeks if not months to get in, etc., etc. The only reason I use AVAD now is in a "have to" type of situation. I need a remote or a distribution amp or something of that such and I don't have a direct account with the part's manufacturer. This is rare though.

I've been in business for 11 years and have annual 7 digit sales figures. When I first got started, people like ECD in Houston and ADI in Dallas were my friends, but I wasn't much more than a trunk slammer in the beginning. After I set up a few direct accounts in the first couple of years of business I found out there typically is a huge advantage in doing so. Margins increase sometimes 5-10%, better CS, better order fulfillment, better demo programs (unheard of in distribution - although I believe Netstreams has had offers for Musica Demo Packs through AVAD though), and also better rebate programs/terms/% off for prompt payment, etc. All of these things greatly impact my bottom line.

I suppose that even if most of these safeguards and value added items could actually be established at AVAD solely for Netstreams it still feels like going backwards.

Is their ever a chance of having direct dealers?

I know that AVAD helps Netstreams in the short-term, especially with exposure. I just hope that you can come up with a plan long-term that allows the good dealers (maybe once proven at AVAD) to go direct and cut AVAD out of the deal. Why do I want to share our (Media Design & Netstreams) profit with them? They do so little for my company. No offense to them, but they will always cater to the rookies.


One note as to the quality of Netstreams DigiLinX: I by no means think that because they are at AVAD does this make it less of a product. I as well as I think I can speak for QQQ have been excited about DigiLinX from the 1st talks a year ago on this forum. Netstreams support on this forum shows a strong corporate commitment to the industry and should help it in the long run.

Mike you had mentioned picking up gear in Austin and San Antonio. I assume you can pick it up at your factory/distribution center? AVAD is only in Dallas and Houston. I'm in the Fort Worth area, but I work all over the state, it would be nice to know I can stop in to pick up gear for a job in SA.

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design


Brent,

NetStreams provides ALL technical support for our products. So you would be dealing with us not AVAD for any help that you may need, we also conduct all the training.

AVAD has a location in Dallas, and Houston, and they are working on a location for S.A. or maybe south Austin. In a pinch we have been known to deliver from our Austin warehouse. And we do have some terrific demo and accommodation pricing.

I hope this helps,

Mike Braithwaite
NetStreams

Is there any chance to hear what Buzz has to say about AVAD and the concerns that I have? I know that he had pointed out earlier that a lot of thought went into using AVAD but I would appreciate any insight into that specifically.

I'm sure that you guys are going to help whenever asked. I have no doubt Netstreams will come to the rescue when called upon. My big issue is the additional costs AVAD brings to the scenario, the consistent lack of CS follow through over the past several years, slow order processing, employee turnover in the sales dept., out of stock items that take weeks if not months to get.

So, the big question is...will you guys have direct dealers in the future?

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Originally posted by bhuskins
From another thread...but still curious

I wonder if Netstreams has set a number for the amount of US authorized dealers for DigiLinX they want to maintain/not exceed?

thanks,

Brent Huskins
Media Design

I've not set a long term number, but we don't anticipate more then 300 or so qualified. That may be larger (look at the number of Creston, ReQuest or Lutron) the are several times larger). The number is less important then the quality.

Originally posted by bhuskins
Is there any chance to hear what Buzz has to say about AVAD and the concerns that I have? I know that he had pointed out earlier that a lot of thought went into using AVAD but I would appreciate any insight into that specifically.

I'm sure that you guys are going to help whenever asked. I have no doubt Netstreams will come to the rescue when called upon. My big issue is the additional costs AVAD brings to the scenario, the consistent lack of CS follow through over the past several years, slow order processing, employee turnover in the sales dept., out of stock items that take weeks if not months to get.

So, the big question is...will you guys have direct dealers in the future?

Brent Huskins
Media Design


I've been in business to long to categorically rule out changes in the future, but we have set up a new business model that leverages the efficiencies of AVAD's distribution model.
Traditionally, companies in our industry end up with both inside direct sales as well distribution through independents.
This is not cost effective for us.
This is a new way of doing business in our industry, but it makes sense if you step back and look at the entire picture. It is more difficult as it is new, and lots of people are afraid of “new”. But it makes too much economic sense.

Clearly there will be occasional problems and issues with any particular individual or location, but the same is true with reps, and inside sales force, or whatever you chose.

Over 50% of the tech question are handled locally, by the AVAD specialists (we have trained a “Netstreams Champion” in every location, bring them to Austin for intensive product immersion. And for people not in the same time zone as HQ, this is a huge benefit. Of course we are here to help as well. Call, fax, email.

Hey, how many other companies have their CTO and VP of Sales answering your every question on a public forum!!!! Support? You got it!
:cool:

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
I've not set a long term number, but we don't anticipate more then 300 or so qualified. That may be larger (look at the number of Creston, ReQuest or Lutron) the are several times larger). The number is less important then the quality.

Anything near this target is great news Buzz!

Brent Huskins
Media Design

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
I've been in business to long to categorically rule out changes in the future, but we have set up a new business model that leverages the efficiencies of AVAD's distribution model.
Traditionally, companies in our industry end up with both inside direct sales as well distribution through independents.
This is not cost effective for us.
Let's look at some of the costs of doing business.
Since how one sells only effects certain factors (not engineering/purchasing/manufacturing etc to any large degree), let’s think about sales, training, marketing, AR, warehousing etc.

Warehousing. We use AVAD for all our distribution (they have 25 warehouses). We only need one small one for receiving shipments and redistributing them. We can go days and sometimes weeks without any warehouse activity. Imagine the cost savings there alone. Shipping, accounting, inventory management. All dramatically reduced.

Sales team. Rather then a team of field sales people, commissioned reps, and then sales managers, we have four regional sales offices (San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, Florida) in addition to HQ in Austin. We pay no rep commissions, don’t have large inside sales staff, and can focus directly on managing the sales in the various AVAD locations.

Marketing. AVAD is able to leverage marketing for all their brands, creating an economy of scale unavailable to most manufacturers. They help us get our message out more effectively then we could alone, saving us money in the process.

Training. Any idea what it costs to bring a team into town, rent hotel space, fly in a bunch of gear, setup in less then optimal conditions and then do trainings? Any idea what we save by utilizing 25 AV training-designed showrooms all over the US. All the gear is there, all the sub systems we need. This is a HUGE savings and encourages us to train continually, not once or twice a year.

Credit. This is one of the ugliest and most expensive aspects of our industry. Most companies have a staff of credit specialists, extend lots of credit and they write off a scary percentage of bad debt every year. We have no credit department at all. And we have no AR problems. None.


Adding direct dealer would very dramatically increase our cost of doing business. Most companies support both direct sales and distributors. This is a rather expensive way to go to market, as you have to support the distributor as well as incur all the costs mentioned above and the costs get reflected in the product. I would rather take the direct sales staff, credit department, training costs etc and apply them to engineering. And that is what we have done.

This is a new way of doing business in our industry, but it makes sense if you step back and look at the entire picture. It is more difficult as it is new, and lots of people are afraid of “new”. But it makes too much economic sense.

Clearly there will be occasional problems and issues with any particular individual or location, but the same is true with reps, and inside sales force, or whatever you chose.

I can tell you that in our case, if an AVAD location is out of stock on a particular NetStreams unit, it is likely that is because WE are out of stock. And isn’t in nicer to be able to just go pick it up, rather then order and wait for it (incurring shipping costs along the way)?

Over 50% of the tech question are handled locally, by the AVAD specialists (we have trained a “Netstreams Champion” in every location, bring them to Austin for intensive product immersion. And for people not in the same time zone as HQ, this is a huge benefit. Of course we are here to help as well. Call, fax, email.

Hey, how many other companies have their CTO and VP of Sales answering your every question on a public forum!!!! Support? You got it!
:cool:

Buzz, you make a good argument and I see most of your points.

A couple of questions raised though:

1. Although no Rep commissions, etc. AVAD charges dealers more for Netstreams gear than what they pay for it - obviously. Needless to say, this cost savings to Netstreams is being passed on to the dealer by the upcharge AVAD instigates. All of these great programs AVAD offers come at a cost, regardless of what brand I buy from them. Not to say that this wouldn't occur under a more traditional distribution model, rather dealers would be paying this added expense directly to Netstreams while cutting out AVAD. My point is does this really save the dealer any money in the long run (although I see how it saves Netstreams money)?

2. Who is the resident "Nestreams Champion" at the Dallas AVAD location? I've never been steered in the right direction from anyone at AVAD. If a PM is more appropriate, feel free to send me one.

3. One last point is that I am well aware that the support (especially from upper management) is top-notch. That shows here on AVS for sure. Keep up the good work.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

I would appreciate it if any further business questions (as opposed to product questions of interest to all) be emailed to bgoddard at netstreams.com.
I am current;y in Europe so responses may be spotty as I travel this week.

when is the expected release of the AudioLinx and XM module?
i'm looking forward to Polk's upcoming XM reference tuner and would like to get more information regarding integration with DigiLinx. specifically, can i get metadata information (song title and artist) to display on TouchLinx or via web page?
i am also interested in controlling DigiLinx using a wireless PDA. is this possible? if so, what would i need (i.e. bridge, access point, software)?
i am looking to set up DigiLinx in my home when the Polk or Netstream XM module releases. do we go to AVAD to seek local installers?
i appreciate the responses coming direct from the manufacturer. Thanks very much for your participation.

Originally posted by memnoch2
when is the expected release of the AudioLinx and XM module?

1st quarter of 2005.

i'm looking forward to Polk's upcoming XM reference tuner and would like to get more information regarding integration with DigiLinx. specifically, can i get metadata information (song title and artist) to display on TouchLinx or via web page?

I don't have shipping date information on that yet.


i am also interested in controlling DigiLinx using a wireless PDA. is this possible? if so, what would i need (i.e. bridge, access point, software)?

You'll need a wireless access point of course, and a PDA with a web browser that supports Macromedia Flash.



i am looking to set up DigiLinx in my home when the Polk or Netstream XM module releases. do we go to AVAD to seek local installers? Yes, you should contact your local AVAD office in October and they can you direct you to dealers authorized and certified to install DigiLinX. We are currently holding training/certification seminars.

email sent to Buzz...

Brent Huskins
Media Design

netstreams question:

where can you mount the speakerlinx module? behind one of the touchpanels? attached to a speaker? or do you have to put in another two-gang low voltage box near the speakers?

or should I just leave the speakerlinx modules in the rack?


just trying to get a handle on how everything will get installed while I still have the chance to pull cable easily

Originally posted by dan marquardt
netstreams question:

where can you mount the speakerlinx module? behind one of the touchpanels? attached to a speaker? or do you have to put in another two-gang low voltage box near the speakers?

or should I just leave the speakerlinx modules in the rack?


just trying to get a handle on how everything will get installed while I still have the chance to pull cable easily

Hi Dan,

All of the methods you have mentioned are available.

The SpeakerLinX module fits inside a standard 2 gang box. You can mount it separately in its own box, or behind the keypad/touchpanel.
It works best for acoustics to be mounted directly on the speaker itself such as how Polk Audio demonstrates, or we do offer a 2U rackmount plate that allows for up to 4 amplifiers.

I hope this helps,

Mike Braithwaite
NetStreams

Originally posted by audiblesolutions
I already know the answer to this but perhaps others might wish to know the recommended wiring for the new DigiLinX system. It is a little unusual.

Alan

What about the keypads/touchscreens. Can they be daisy-chained to the speakerlinx, or do they need to be homerun to the router? And is the touchscreen powered over ethernet?
thanks

There is a 4port switch on the back of the only touchpanel Netstream offers: the TL380.
There is also a 4 terminal connection for power. So far, unless otherwise updated, this does not have the ability to do POE.

Router to touchscreen to speakerlinx is one possible wiring configuration.

Originally posted by juliejacobson
What about the keypads/touchscreens. Can they be daisy-chained to the speakerlinx, or do they need to be homerun to the router? And is the touchscreen powered over ethernet?
thanks



As Truaudiophile suggests, you can put the touchscreen in series with the SpeakerLinX module. We power everything with 28v from a powersupply located at the headend (or a local supply). This is what we use the "speakerwire" for; (since the amp is in the room, the CEA standard of pulling 61/4 and CAT5E works great as power conductors (16/4) and data/control/signal (CAT5E)).

Originally posted by Buzz Goddard
As Truaudiophile suggests, you can put the touchscreen in series with the SpeakerLinX module. We power everything with 28v from a powersupply located at the headend (or a local supply). This is what we use the "speakerwire" for; (since the amp is in the room, the CEA standard of pulling 61/4 and CAT5E works great as power conductors (16/4) and data/control/signal (CAT5E)).

So a single daisy-chained speaker cable powers both the touchscreen and speakerlinx?
Hope I'm not sounding too ignorant; not too much of an audio person.
thanks

Yes, That will work. I think that was the original intention in planning the system, as you could remove your old system and replace with the Digilinx!
You could also homerun the speakerlinx power to the PL600. Really flexible to install. Installs are fairly straightforward and less time consuming than most setups. All of the digilinx equipment shares the digilinx router that can also be connected to your house LAN for data from the internet.

Our design philosophy encompasses forward and backward wiring compatibility. The emerging standard of 4 conductor (16 or 14 gauge) and CAT5e works very well. You can do something as simple as volume controls or as sophisticated as DigiLinX which is fully IP.
We use the 16 or 14 gauge to supply power (28v) to the amplifiers (wherever they are) as well as all the other active components in the system except the main switch and of course the power supply which run off line voltage.

While I've read this thread through completely and am intrigued by the technology, I've yet to come across some basic system pricing for a basic Musica system. I'm only looking for a 2 zone, maximum 3 and I just can't seem to find pricing information out? Anyone have this info yet?

TIA

I paid $350/keypad, $1,285 pre-amp, $382 for six zone wiring, plus labor.

Getting ready to prewire a house. Would like to know if I should use single gang or double gang mud rings for the in-wall controls.

At the same time, how is the wiring accomplished for the use of a local source input? Traditionally I would pull wire from the head-end to the local source input, continuing from the local source input to the volume control. I get the idea that Netsreams is different due to the IP nature of this system. Can someone provide guidance?

One final question, as previously posted, I understand the wiring scheme to also include a cat5 cable between the speaker pairs? In other words, run cat5 and 14/2 from the keypad to each speaker and then cat5 between the speaker pairs in the room. This does not seem to make sense to me which is why i am questioning .

Regards,
Dan

Dan,
It is not clear if you are considering Musica or DigiLinX. They are similar in overall wiring, but there are some small differences.

Buzz,

I recently had my local dealer install a Musica system in my new house. While I am generally satisfied with it, we came across one very major issue that, if either I or the dealer had realized, would have caused us not to install this product. That issue is that the keypad does not support macros. One of the music sources hooked up to the Musica system is a 3 tuner satellite radio receiver. To change channels or pick a favorite channel on the receiver requires the pressing of multiple keys. I had anticipated that five or ten favorite channels could have been programmed into the different keys, but that is not possible. My dealer has tried installing a Xantech Mini-Macromizer, but apparently the Musica system is not compatible with that unit. Right now, my wife, who is somewhat technologically challenged is very frustrated and the Musica system is getting very little use.

Is there any possibility that macro capability can be added to the Musica keypads or some other alternative can be used to solve this issue? I understand my dealer has been in touch with Netstreams on this issue for some time, but to date has not received any solutions.

Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Scott

Hi Scott,

Sorry for your frustration. please advise your dealer to look into the new KP50-FM keypads (with a tuner integrated into the keypad) as it supports a few macros. Perhaps it will work for your needs.

Buzz,

Thanks for the quick reply. I will let my dealer know your reply and let you know if it solves my problems.

Buzz,

I passed on your suggestion to my dealer. They were aware of the KP50-FM keypads. They told me those keypads only offered macros on 2 of the keys (the left and right arrows near the volume controls). Unfortunately that is not a solution as that would only allow two favorite channels and would not assist in trying to tune a specific channel.

I have heard from another Netstreams dealer that the lack of macro capability on the Musica keypads is a big problem for him also.

Is there any other way to add full macro capabilities to the Musica keypads or to integrate the Musica system with another product that could add macro capabilities to this system?

Sorry if I sound frustrated but I spent a good bit of money in having this system installed in my new house believing it would result in a system that my wife and others would be able to easily use and it is now sitting virtually unused.

If anyone else has any ideas or suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated.

Scott

Buzz:

At this poitn we are not sure what will be installed and would not mind wiring to both standards. At this point the wire is easy to install, and we are pulling a bunch of it, so wiring to both standards will be no problem. Can you explain the wiring schemes for both units?

How about the mudrings? single or double?

Kind regards,
Dan

Sure!
Here is both discussion and diagrams. Downlad the two diagram jpeg's and you can enlarge them with your viewer.

http://www.netstreams.com/design.aspx

Buzz:

Nothing was attached to the post. Can you post again?

Buzz, any update on video distribution? Component?

Thanks, Eddie

Buzz, any update on video distribution?
DITTO!

What's the buzz, Buzz?

Hey guys!

Update:

We quietly showed a video switch at EHX that is a companion to both Musica and DigiLinX. It is scheduled to release around the end of next month, but we'll have more public info on it in the beginning of the month.

Hi-def over IP is still a ways away, but we are working hard on it and are pleased with the quality and progress.

Buzz,

I finally got my digilinx demo kit and will be installing it soon. I have a polk XM tuner on the way. I am trying to make a decision on a media server to interface with. Could you give me some advantages/disadvantages of the audio request vs. Imerge soundserver? I know they are both supported natively by digilinx and they both seem to be very similiar products with similiar price points. Anything to sway me one way or the other?

Thanks.

Also, any more info on the video server?

My company does HD over IP. Fiber to the Home rocks!

At CES Netstreams announces StreamNet, video over IP.

http://netstreams.com/Documents/NetStreams%20Video%20over%20IP.pdf

When it happens...
NetStreams, makers of world's only IP-Based Multi-Room Audio entertainment
system, said the IP video capability would be incorporated into its DigiLinX IP-Based Multi-
Room entertainment system in new products to be launched within 12 months
...it will be huge. This announcement is rather humorous though in in light of forum member Alan's statement that the new person (lady?) at Netstreams was going to be very strict about not showing products that aren't shipping yet. Either he got it wrong or she changed her mind fast.

Alan got it right and so did Petro (the new person (lady) who is and has been our VP of marketing and has been in this business for years).

The demo we did was strictly a technology demonstration. The units were literally, and quite pointedly, black boxes. There was no attempt to show product, it was showing progress. There were quite a few technical people who did not believe it was actually being done, to the point that some of them unplugged the CAT5e from the switch.
Real product is still months away.

We did show a video switch (HD capable) with up to 1000' output drive capability. That ships in March.
We also showed IP intercom running on standard DigiLinX hardware. That is currently available.

Hi everyone, Paul Young, new Director of Product Management at NetStreams here...

The "video switch" (a.k.a. Panorama) that Buzz refers to is actually much more, it is an HD analog video (Composite, S-video, or Component) distribution system that provides intelligent routing of 4 sources to 6 displays over Cat5e with IR control. It is stackable for more displays, and can also distribute multi-channel audio in a standalone configuration via S/PDIF - or paired with Musica for analog audio distribution. It also provides IR routing to control the sources and the displays.

RE: IP-video, we showed it in more detail at the recent InfoComm show, and you'll see it again soon in greater detail at CEDIA.

Paul -

What's the realistic timeframe for release of IP video for digilinx. Are you showing more than black-boxes at Cedia?

Also, is the digilinx intercom fully functional, do I just need my dealer to update the software?

Thanks,

David

Paul -

What's the realistic timeframe for release of IP video for digilinx. Are you showing more than black-boxes at Cedia?

Also, is the digilinx intercom fully functional, do I just need my dealer to update the software?

Thanks,

David

Hi David, if one of my products is >90 days out, I can't talk about its possible ship date, so please take my apologies for not revealing more. It's the nature of hardware and software development for schedules to be fluid until we get to a near-shipping state and I want to be totally up front with you and everyone else about our products. For competitive reasons, I can't say exactly what you'll see at CEDIA, but encourage you to stop by (I will be there) so we can meet and greet, and I'll be happy to personally walk you through what we are showing. That's an open invitation for all AVS readers as well.

RE: The DigiLinX intercom, it is functional, if it isn't active you may want to check with your dealer to get the most recent version of firmware and configurations for your devices. The intercom includes room-to-room, room to Multi-Room, and in addition to 2-way can also do 1-way monitoring, plus rooms can be put into do-not-disturb mode.

Hi everyone, Paul Young, new Director of Product Management at NetStreams here...

The "video switch" (a.k.a. Panorama) that Buzz refers to is actually much more, it is an HD analog video (Composite, S-video, or Component) distribution system that provides intelligent routing of 4 sources to 6 displays over Cat5e with IR control. It is stackable for more displays, and can also distribute multi-channel audio in a standalone configuration via S/PDIF - or paired with Musica for analog audio distribution. It also provides IR routing to control the sources and the displays.

RE: IP-video, we showed it in more detail at the recent InfoComm show, and you'll see it again soon in greater detail at CEDIA.


Would this be a single CAT 5E cable to each video port from the Panorama?

Would this be a single CAT 5E cable to each video port from the Panorama?

That is correct. Panorama accepts composite, component, or S-Video from 4 sources, and distributes to 6 displays over Cat5e up to 1000 feet to a Video Port, which outputs component, composite, or S-Video. You'll have to choose an appropriate cable length compensation card (CLC) to put into the back of the Video Port based on the length of the cable run. These come in 50, 250, 500, 700, and 1000 foot varieties.

1. This is standard, unshielded Cat-5e, right? (A number of the "video over cat-5" products note their requirement for shielded cat-5 very quietly - which is annoying for anyone using existing wire).
2. How do I get my audio there, too?
3. What happens if I want 6 sources to 10 locations? (I know I can get the 10 locations by stacking, it is really a how do I get 6 sources?)
4. Finally, pricing?

And an additional question if you don't mind me adding another?....

Do the video ports need power - or just the Cat 5E....thanks.

1. This is standard, unshielded Cat-5e, right? (A number of the "video over cat-5" products note their requirement for shielded cat-5 very quietly - which is annoying for anyone using existing wire).

You should use standard, unshielded cat5e cable with Panorama, up to 1000 ft.

2. How do I get my audio there, too?

There are a couple of ways to get your audio to the room. First, if you are distributing multi-channel audio, for instance if you were distributing to a home theater and several bedrooms with multi-channel processors, you can stack an additional Panorama, connect via RS-232 and use it to distribute S/PDIF. If you are distributing stereo, you can connect Panorama with our Musica or DigiLinX systems and have them handle the audio distribution. Finally, you could use a 3rd party Multi-Room audio distribution system.

3. What happens if I want 6 sources to 10 locations? (I know I can get the 10 locations by stacking, it is really a how do I get 6 sources?)

You are correct in that you can get to 10 locations by stacking (you can get up to 18 this way). For 6 sources, you'd have to take a different approach, either by using a switcher to share two of the source ports, in which case you'd still only have 4 simultaneous streams of video. You could also run 2 Panoramas in parallel, but you would have to choose which rooms had access to which sources.

4. Finally, pricing?

We don't publish a MSRP because we do not sell via retail. If you are a dealer, we distribute through AVAD, and you can get pricing there. If you're an end-user, your dealer can supply pricing.

And an additional question if you don't mind me adding another?....

Do the video ports need power - or just the Cat 5E....thanks.

The Video Port only requires a cat5e connection.

There are a couple of ways to get your audio to the room. First, if you are distributing multi-channel audio, for instance if you were distributing to a home theater and several bedrooms with multi-channel processors, you can stack an additional Panorama, connect via RS-232 and use it to distribute S/PDIF. If you are distributing stereo, you can connect Panorama with our Musica or DigiLinX systems and have them handle the audio distribution. Finally, you could use a 3rd party Multi-Room audio distribution system.

what about lipsync issues?

what about lipsync issues?

Because our audio and video travel on similar analog switched paths in the Musica and Panorama products, I'm happy to report we haven't had lipsync issues! This is a more significant technical challenge for IP Video however, since there is much more processing on the IP Audio/Video side.

Hi David, if one of my products is >90 days out, I can't talk about its possible ship date, so please take my apologies for not revealing more. It's the nature of hardware and software development for schedules to be fluid until we get to a near-shipping state and I want to be totally up front with you and everyone else about our products. For competitive reasons, I can't say exactly what you'll see at CEDIA, but encourage you to stop by (I will be there) so we can meet and greet, and I'll be happy to personally walk you through what we are showing. That's an open invitation for all AVS readers as well.

RE: The DigiLinX intercom, it is functional, if it isn't active you may want to check with your dealer to get the most recent version of firmware and configurations for your devices. The intercom includes room-to-room, room to Multi-Room, and in addition to 2-way can also do 1-way monitoring, plus rooms can be put into do-not-disturb mode.


--> Paul, we are a dealer and have just started to activate the intercom in the couple of installs we had already done. We are working on a quote for a large DigiLinx system and one of the questions is in regards to the intercom and integrating it with a doorbell and other control devices other than a DigiLinx touch panel or keypad.

#1 - Can the intercom be used somehow via a smartphone, PDA, computer or table?

#2 - Other than a mention there isn't much about integrating a doorbell/phone into the system. How can that be done? MLA?

--> Paul, we are a dealer and have just started to activate the intercom in the couple of installs we had already done. We are working on a quote for a large DigiLinx system and one of the questions is in regards to the intercom and integrating it with a doorbell and other control devices other than a DigiLinx touch panel or keypad.

#1 - Can the intercom be used somehow via a smartphone, PDA, computer or table?


As of right now the intercom functionality is only active in NetStreams supplied hardware (e.g. TouchLinX, and KeyLinX).


#2 - Other than a mention there isn't much about integrating a doorbell/phone into the system. How can that be done? MLA?

Today, you can use the voltage sensor in the MediaLinX as an interface to detect doorbell presses, and mute the system. We also will have an interesting new product coming out at CEDIA that will address the front door.

As of right now the intercom functionality is only active in NetStreams supplied hardware (e.g. TouchLinX, and KeyLinX).



Today, you can use the voltage sensor in the MediaLinX as an interface to detect doorbell presses, and mute the system. We also will have an interesting new product coming out at CEDIA that will address the front door.


Sounds like you are saying that both items will be changing probably by the time this install happens. The system will probably be installed next August/September. Of course we need to price it now!

We are talking about a 23 room system with two doors on the main house. In their offices, they would like to be able to use their computer to interface with the system. I don't know if at some point you intend to allow computers to be assigned an ID like your devices and making them two way part of the system but it should be pretty easy to allow the computer to initiate an intercom call to a NetStreams device. Hopefully that will come sooner than later for other potential installs.

Three other questions:

1) Any update on the computer/internet streaming of music?

2) Has anyone that you are aware of integrated a kaleidescape with a DigiLinx yet?

3) Has anyone integrated an HAI or some other alarm panel into the DigiLinx?

Thanks!

The system will probably be installed next August/September. Of course we need to price it now!


2006 or 2007?

1) Any update on the computer/internet streaming of music?

You can stream today from a handful of media servers, like Audio ReQuest or Escient Fireball. Since we connect via IP to these servers you can get multiple simultaneous streams. We are coming out with a product at CEDIA that will address the "streaming from a computer" question.

2) Has anyone that you are aware of integrated a kaleidescape with a DigiLinx yet?

Yes, we have several installations where we have been installed with Kaleidescape, however we should define what "integration" means. Kaleidescape will run seamlessly beside DigiLinX (or Musica) and our systems will perform Multi-Room audio distribution. Hook it up to a Panorama and we will perform Multi-Room video distribution as well. However, we don't show their UI on our screens at this time (although this can be integrated together by an installer since they both run over a web browser).

3) Has anyone integrated an HAI or some other alarm panel into the DigiLinx?

Right now, we are not integrated with alarm panels. We will announce embedded support for several major security products and provide a user-interface and drivers at CEDIA as well!

Hello,

Is the intercom function only available in the Digilinx system? Or can I use it with the Musica system?

Also to confirm the intercom will use the in-ceiling speakers?

Do you know of any dealers in Eastern Canada? I am in Toronto.

Thanks.

Hello,

Is the intercom function only available in the Digilinx system? Or can I use it with the Musica system?

Also to confirm the intercom will use the in-ceiling speakers?

Do you know of any dealers in Eastern Canada? I am in Toronto.

Thanks.

Yes, intercom functionality is only available in DigiLinX at this time. Yes, the intercom uses whatever speakers are connected to the system, usually in-ceiling speakers. I'll contact you separately for the dealer question.

You can stream today from a handful of media servers, like Audio ReQuest or Escient Fireball. Since we connect via IP to these servers you can get multiple simultaneous streams. We are coming out with a product at CEDIA that will address the "streaming from a computer" question.



Yes, we have several installations where we have been installed with Kaleidescape, however we should define what "integration" means. Kaleidescape will run seamlessly beside DigiLinX (or Musica) and our systems will perform Multi-Room audio distribution. Hook it up to a Panorama and we will perform Multi-Room video distribution as well. However, we don't show their UI on our screens at this time (although this can be integrated together by an installer since they both run over a web browser).



Right now, we are not integrated with alarm panels. We will announce embedded support for several major security products and provide a user-interface and drivers at CEDIA as well!



Paul - Thank you for keeping this thread going. We should be able to incorporate the browser without a problem. I assume the Xperinet MIRV would be handled similarly.

The streaming from a computer is being launched around CEDIA or announced CEDIA and the date is late 2006 or sometime 2007?

As for the alarms, those drivers will be available around CEDIA or announced at CEDIA and coming shortly after? Do we need to wait until CEDIA to know which manufacturers?

Paul - Thank you for keeping this thread going. We should be able to incorporate the browser without a problem. I assume the Xperinet MIRV would be handled similarly.

So long as you are using the MIRV's browser based interface, yes.

The streaming from a computer is being launched around CEDIA or announced CEDIA and the date is late 2006 or sometime 2007?

We will be at CEDIA 2006 with a shipping product. It will be highlighted in our booth and I can demo it for anyone interested!

As for the alarms, those drivers will be available around CEDIA or announced at CEDIA and coming shortly after? Do we need to wait until CEDIA to know which manufacturers?

The initial drivers will support GE security systems and Secant (international). They will be available at CEDIA (not physically obviously, but we will make them part of our software download in that timeframe).

Thanks for the great questions, checking and updating this thread is one of the highlights of my day.

So long as you are using the MIRV's browser based interface, yes.



We will be at CEDIA 2006 with a shipping product. It will be highlighted in our booth and I can demo it for anyone interested!



The initial drivers will support GE security systems and Secant (international). They will be available at CEDIA (not physically obviously, but we will make them part of our software download in that timeframe).

Thanks for the great questions, checking and updating this thread is one of the highlights of my day.

Looking forward to meeting you at the show. Are there specific GE security systems that it will work with? Any plans to support Ademco (Honeywell) or HAI say by 1st half 2007?

Looking forward to meeting you at the show. Are there specific GE security systems that it will work with? Any plans to support Ademco (Honeywell) or HAI say by 1st half 2007?

We are testing with the GE Concord system. Honeywell and HAI are next on our list, but I do not have public timeframes for these yet.

Got my system updated with the latest software. Now have intercom functionality and a pretty cool looking skin (carbon). Really like the intercom features.

Paul, any idea if GE NetworX security control is being considered?

Thanks,
David

Glad to hear that the skin you installed works and looks great!

On NetworX, we are not coming w/ specific support for that platform, but if it can interface with a ControLinX via RS-232 using the same command set as Concord, it will work.

Hi guys,
Wow, what a thread. Even though it is 3 years old I still read through the whole thing. (Took me a week and a half but I made it)

I am also looking for a dealer close to home. Paul, or any other Netstreams rep for that matter, could you contact me so that I may let you know where I am from. I have already found one dealer in the area but it seems that I know more about the digilinx system then they do. (I have been researching this for 3 months now)

Also, can you provide any more details on the module for using a PC music library as a source? This functionality is a make or break decision for me.

thanks
styxx_78

One more question, I remember back a few pages in this thread someone asked if there is going to be a list of 3rd party switches "compatible" with the digilinx system. If this has been posted could someone point me in the right direction to find this list?
If this list does not yet exist, is there still a plan from Netstreams to provide this compatibility list?

Thanks again,
styxx_78

One more question, I remember back a few pages in this thread someone asked if there is going to be a list of 3rd party switches "compatible" with the digilinx system. If this has been posted could someone point me in the right direction to find this list?
If this list does not yet exist, is there still a plan from Netstreams to provide this compatibility list?

Thanks again,
styxx_78

RE: a local dealer, I will email you!

RE: 3rd party switches, we do not have a compatible switch list because as of today the only switch certified to work with the DigiLinX system is our own. Because of the reliance on IGMP, you get into expensive "enterprise" level switches from companies like Cisco before you start to see equivalent functionality. As our business evolves into more commercial jobs, we may start to certify other OEM's switches but as of now we are not.

RE: Our upcoming Streaming Music Manager (SMM), we will be showing it live with full datasheets, specs, and functionality at CEDIA in a month. We will start shipping it in about a week. The SMM "mines" the network for WAV and MP3 files on any shared folder. It can also read from USB flash drives, and Network Attached Storage (NAS), and Macs - anything networked and shared. It maintains a dynamic database of shared music entering and leaving the network and makes that list available to the DigiLinX system for streaming. The actual music file remains where ever it was discovered, but the SMM tracks its availability and location.

For example, if you bring home your laptop from work and have a shared folder with MP3's, the SMM will discover this shared music within 15 minutes of your logging into your home's wireless network. You can then browse your music selection from the TouchLinX panel, and play it through SpeakerLinX as if it were any other source. When you log off your wireless, the SMM will remove the music from the list. The advantage is that you can decide where is best to store your music, you don't have to change your current setup - the SMM dynamically adjusts and unobtrusively discovers your music.

That is of course just a high-level overview. There are lots more details that we can get into with Q&A.

By the way, you can see a picture of the SMM in the "CEDIA Expo Planner" section at the back of this month's issue of CEPro.

THIS IS HUGE NEWS!

Thanks for that tidbit Paul.

As I was reading through your post the first question came to mind was "what if my source goes off-line?". I think it is great that you guys were thiking ahead and developing a device capable of having a dynamic DB. Most Excellent.

This news has solidified the fact that I will be installing Digilinx in my new home.

Now just to find a dealer that is willing to deal with me (possibly letting me do my own install, I am very picky and a control freak)

styxx_78

I was looking on the website and can't seem to figure out the difference between the following Switchlinx units.

Switchlinx SW224
Switchlinx SW324

My take is that the SW224 was replaced by the SW324 but has not been removed from the website. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, since I do not have prices yet, what would be more expensive? 2 8-port switches? Or 1 24-port switch?

1 SW324 would be cheaper than 2 SW208's...

1 SW324 would be cheaper than 2 SW208's...

Correct.

FYI, here is a CEPro article about the upcoming Streaming Music Manager:

http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/14788.html

Looks pretty cool although the phrase, "The unit is expected to "retail" for less than $3,000" threw me off my rocker. After reading all the hype about this unit I was expecting that it would come in under the $1000 mark. My estimation was waay off. I truly hope they are wrong.

I now may have to rethink my whole house audio solution as this would put me way over budget.

Perhaps I have champagne taste on the beer budget syndrome.

Hmm...

We don't sell at retail so we don't have public retail pricing. Check with your DigiLinX dealer for your price.

Looks pretty cool although the phase, "The unit is expected to "retail" for less than $3,000" threw me off my rocker. After reading all the hype about this unit I was expecting that it would come in under the $1000 mark. My estimation was waay off. I truly hope they are wrong.

I now may have to rethink my whole house audio solution as this would put me way over budget. Why not think of using Sonos. Cheaper cost, simpler setup and better sound. Look this Digilinx stuff is overcomplicated and requires an installer for a hookup. It doesn't have to be that difficult or expensive. Take a look at Sonos and see for yourself.

Perhaps I have champagne taste on the beer budget syndrome.No, maybe it is just over priced and much too complex for what you are actually getting.

Hmm...

Why not think of using Sonos. Cheaper cost, simpler setup and better sound. Look this Digilinx stuff is overcomplicated and requires an installer for a hookup. It doesn't have to be that difficult or expensive. Take a look at Sonos and see for yourself.




Sonos is cheaper than we are. But Sonos serves a different market. DigiLinX is a dealer-installed entertainment and control solution where as Sonos is audio only. DigiLinX does audio, video (with Panorama and IP video coming Q107), and home control integration with Aprilaire for HVAC, Lutron for Lighting, etc. The reason we require installer installation is because our system is so flexible, and we invest a lot of time, money, and effort in training our dealers to customize DigiLinX to the needs of their customers.

Can you quantify the "better sound" comment, do you have data to back that up or is it just FUD?



No, maybe it is just over priced and much too complex for what you are actually getting.

Hmm...

We can go back and forth about what the right solution is for this particular person (and it may or may not be DigiLinX depending on his needs, which is why we get our dealers involved), but I believe our thousands of happy DigiLinX customers would disagree that the system is overpriced or too complex.

The SMM "mines" the network for WAV and MP3 files on any shared folder.
just WAV and MP3? this flies contrary to Netstreams' high-quality cachet. how about some lossless support aside from WAV? does Netstreams plan to or already support iPod/iTunes?
sonos is indeed an alternative and practical solution for audio distribution, with a great interface and wide format support. but it gets very expensive as more rooms get added...