Curt,

Thanks so much for the quick reply!

Have a great holiday!

Curt or Bruce

Hi there!

I have two questions coming from the land down under.

1. I have owned a f1500r for many years now. Bought it in 1996. While on holiday is California and bought it back with my luggage on the plane. The usage is low. I would like to know what usually is the first component to malfunction in this sub? I wish to preserve the life of it buy possibly purchasing a new amp moduel (the whole section that you can remove from the box) Am I still able to purchase this?

2. While I enjoy reading about the many new inovations coming into A.V Very little product makes its way here in Australia. Generally, components made in the USA. If you really want it you have to find a store online in the USA who is willing to ship it overseas. You have no option! The current pricing for the HGS 18 here in Australia is^$6000.00 (US$4440.00) I fear based on the MSRP of the new digital line namely 15"and 18" will top the near $10,000.00 mark. This is only a few thousand off the price of a new small car.
Will we see the new Digital line here?
Yes and I know W C Wedderspoon is the importer into Australia.

Thanks Bruce and Curt. I am about to buy a sub and I think this thread has helped me make my decision. Velodyne has been a dream sub of mine since I was a poor college student in the 80's. My only question now is which subs should I consider? My dedicated room is 25 by 17 with 9 foot ceilings with mass loaded vinyl in the walls and tightly sealed doors, if you open one door the other will try to open. 80% of what I listen to is jazz at moderate levels usually not above 85db except for some peaks.I find movies with outdoor scenes enjoyable especially the sound of waves so I need a sub that can make them sound realistic. My current system has Mcintosh LS-360 speakers which have dual 10 inch drivers and they are powered by a 500 watts a channel California Audio labs amp, so the do a very good job with bass as it stands but of course not what a sub can do. Which sub in the HG series and DD series would you recommend?

Hey, great to see dreams come true. Your dimensions call for a 15 or 18" subwoofer, so in the HGS line it would be the HGS-15X and for the most fun either a DD-15 or DD-18.
Happy Shopping,
Curt

Hi Bruce,
It's amazing what you can find on this forum. I have a question for you regarding power cords. I currently have a F1200R and a F1500R. I have recently been on a power cable upgrading binge. My question...What would be the benefit if any of swapping out the standard lamp cable power cord with one of the upgraded cables available? I know that I would either have to hardwire a cord in or hardwire in a receptacle. I realize this would void any warranty, but then again they're both out of warranty at this point I assume. Would this be worth my time and effort? Your opinion would be appreciated. Thanks Ron

Ron
You asked for an opinion and that's all I can give you. I've been involved in audio for over fifty years and have tried and tested (blind and otherwise) many upgrade paths in audio. I think changing the power cords would offer no benefit.
Thanks,
Curt

The previous response was but one industry insider's attempt at restoring some veracity to the hobby of audio. Let it be an example for other's to follow. :)

Well said, Curt. :)

Ran

Thanks, Ran I needed that!

We are closed for the Christmas Holidays and will reopen Monday December 29th. We at Velodyne wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Be good to each other.
Curt

My living room is 15x13 with vaulted ceiling and open to dining room and hall way (see attached floor plan). What velodyne sub would you suggest?

My setup:
Paradigm Studio 100 v.3 fronts
Paradigm studio cc570 center
Paradigm cinema 90 for surrounds
Anthem mca-20 amp
yamaha rv-x2400 receiver.

70% movie, 30% music.

Thanks in advance,

Hung

Originally posted by curt c
Ron
You asked for an opinion and that's all I can give you. I've been involved in audio for over fifty years and have tried and tested (blind and otherwise) many upgrade paths in audio. I think changing the power cords would offer no benefit.
Thanks,
Curt

I've been through a couple of power cord demos, one made the sound bloated compared to the standard cable and the other improved things making the sound more "musical". Good or bad the sound was certainly different in both cases. I don't think anyone at either demo thought the power cable didn't make any difference.

Let keep the objective/subjective/DBT/BS power cord debate out of this thread please.

Agreed!!!!
Let's make it the season not to debate wire.

Merry Christmas.
Curt

>>Let's make it the season not to debate wire.<<

Why not?? Don't we all want to know who the master debater is? :)

Ran

1st i hope you all enjoyed the holidays..i know i have :D

A quick question for Bruce/Curt and co if i may

Is there a possiblity of a stand alone unit to plug into a HGS series sub that would give EQ to these subs.I know yo can get a BFD but something with the graphic ease of the DD EQ would be a nice addition.

As a hgs18 user i'd like some slidy knobs to play with;)

Monkeee,

Keep an eye out for an upcoming product from **********. It's called the R-Des and is probably what you're looking for. It's a sub eq. that interfaces with your PC. It'll be at CES and released fairly soon afterwards.

Ran

Hi Curt,

Glad I found this thread.

My room is 22 X 22 with vaulted ceilings and several large openings to other rooms. Would a single DD-15 be adequate? How about a single DD-18? I could go for two DD-10s but I don't think I would get the ULTRA deep bass extension I like for movies.

Secondly, I currently have a PB2-Plus from SVS. Any idea how this would compare to the DD-18 in terms of max extension and SPLs?

Thanks!

-Brian

I have been trying to figure out which DD sub I should get based on room dimensions but I have been unable to find a basic guideline anywhere. I have searched this forum, Velodyne website, etc., and I cannot find the information. Could someone please list a basic guideline for each DD sub and the acceptable room dimensions.

Also, there has not been much discussion at all about the DD-10. I was hoping that this sub would be right for me. Anyone out there using the DD-10 or do most people buy a 12 inch minimum? Help! The last part of my HT setup is the subwoofer (60/40 movies/music).

Thanks.

In general, most dealers try to steer folks away from the tiny DD-10 and towards the DD-12 if they can accomodate it in their living space. Personally, I liked the little HGS-10, but folks had a nasty tendency to overdrive it and blow it up. :(
Velodyne then upgraded the amp to the HGS-10II, but I don't know it that model had the same reliability problems. The new DD-10 is 33% larger than the older HGS-10, so perhaps that may help a little to prevent overdriving it, but the bottom line is really "how big is your room?", and "how loud do you like to play stuff?". I live in a condo and my room is about 15x30x8 and open to a galley kitchen and hallway and never really lacked for volume with that tiny guy, but then again, I wasn't trying to rearrange the furniture by cranking the sub. I'm actually considering getting the little DD-10(at cost), but am trying to figure out if the cost difference is worth it as compared to the ********** UFW-10 which is one heck of a lot cheaper, but doesn't have all the eq bells and whistles and might not extend quite as low in the bass.
We'll see......

Ran

Does anyone know the retail prices for the DD line of subs?

Mine posting them?

-Brian

DD-10 $2499
DD-12 $2999
DD-15 $3999
DD-15 $4999

VERY expensive. I wonder if I am better of going with an outboard EQ and an keeping my SVS??

Decisions, decisions....

-Brian

Originally posted by Bghead8che
VERY expensive. I wonder if I am better of going with an outboard EQ and an keeping my SVS??

Decisions, decisions....

-Brian
You already have a very high quality subwoofer, I think you would be better off just adding an eq. The most cost effective eq I know of is the Behringer Feedback Destroyer(BFD) but it takes much more user involvement in getting it setup, after you set it up once it's pretty simple but still never as simple as Velo's method. It wasn't too big a deal for me since I like to fiddle with things as much as possible. The BFD runs ~$120.

Another option to consider is the upcoming R-DES eq from **********. Not too much info has been released on this but after CES we should know a bit more.

http://fusionindesign.com/onix/consumer.html

Originally posted by Respectamonkeee
1st i hope you all enjoyed the holidays..i know i have :D

A quick question for Bruce/Curt and co if i may

Is there a possiblity of a stand alone unit to plug into a HGS series sub that would give EQ to these subs.I know yo can get a BFD but something with the graphic ease of the DD EQ would be a nice addition.

As a hgs18 user i'd like some slidy knobs to play with;)

Hi,
An interesting concept. Too early to tell but worth thinking about.
Thanks,
Curt

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bghead8che
Hi Curt,

Glad I found this thread.

My room is 22 X 22 with vaulted ceilings and several large openings to other rooms. Would a single DD-15 be adequate? How about a single DD-18? I could go for two DD-10s but I don't think I would get the ULTRA deep bass extension I like for movies.

Secondly, I currently have a PB2-Plus from SVS. Any idea how this would compare to the DD-18 in terms of max extension and SPLs?

Thanks!

-Brian

Hi Brian,
For your room a DD-18 would be the way to go. You would get equal bass extension with much lower distortion. With the on board computer the DD-18 is unsurpassed for music/home theater systems.
Curt

Originally posted by neil_n
I have been trying to figure out which DD sub I should get based on room dimensions but I have been unable to find a basic guideline anywhere. I have searched this forum, Velodyne website, etc., and I cannot find the information. Could someone please list a basic guideline for each DD sub and the acceptable room dimensions.

Also, there has not been much discussion at all about the DD-10. I was hoping that this sub would be right for me. Anyone out there using the DD-10 or do most people buy a 12 inch minimum? Help! The last part of my HT setup is the subwoofer (60/40 movies/music).

Thanks.

Neil,
I wish it was that simple. So many variables. We are revamping our Website and will attempt to do what you're requesting. Room size, openings into other rooms, types of music/movies, how loud all come into play. I often suggest cheat up (bigger) or the largest unit you can budget. Most end up with a subwoofer that is too small, often much to small and then they push it to hard, just as theranman states.
Against my better judgment, I today will offer the following. I may change my mind tomorrow. (My Disclaimer)
Small Rooms (to 1800 cubic feet) DD-10 or DD-12
Medium Rooms (to 3000 cubic feet) DD-12 or DD-15
Large Rooms (over 3000 cubic feet) DD-15 or DD-18
If rooms have openings into other rooms, then all those rooms must be counted in the measurement.
We are going to do our best to put some science to this issue.
Hope this helped some.
Curt

Thanks for the reply Curt!

For my room (21 X 21 with several openings) would you suggest 2 DD-12s or 1 DD-18. I'd rather go w/ a single sub, however, I'll do whatever sounds best.

I'm afraid the 18inch subwoofer might be a tad boomy for music. I like deep, tight and accurate bass.

-Brian

Brian,
I'd go with the DD-18. With proper setup and location our 18 is never boomy. A large cone moves much less than a smaller cone for a given amount of output so is usually a more accurate reproducer. Boominess often comes from peaks at certain frequencies caused by room interaction. That's why we developed the very flexible digital equalization system included with the DD subs. If you play music with deep bass content,or need it loud,or have a large area to cover you'll love the DD-18.
Curt

Originally posted by curt c
Hi,
An interesting concept. Too early to tell but worth thinking about.
Thanks,
Curt

Well if you ever get your R&D guys on it ,im only to happy to be a test dummy:D

You got it.
Curt

Hi all,
I received my DD-12 few days back set it up and love it. It never feels boomy and the sound is outstanding. There's also a review in Secrets of hifi if you haven't read already on DD-18. Anyway, I would like to Thank all of you for anwering my questions few weeks back. I need couple clarifications:
1. Beginning of the manual says to set LFE crossover at 120Hz in either the pro or the sub but later during the setup manual suggests to change the LFE in the sub to where the pro lfe crossover was. My question is what are people using? Are you using the same LFE crossover in both the preand sub or should I set one of them at 120Hz. If so, which one i.e., B&K ref 50 or DD-12?

2. I have Diva swan 6.1 that goes down to 35 Hz. What should the crossover be?

3. In the Secrets review Johnson suggests that even for movies to use maximum servo ie set that last parameter at 08 instead of 01. I was wondering if Curt can chime in and let me know what he thinks.

4. My blue light stays on all the time and am wondering if it should go off when the sub sleeps? If yes, how do it set it up? Also, Johnson in his review says that when the sub receives a signal from the remote during preset change (movies, classical etc) the blue light blinks. Mine doesn't. How do I know that the sub has changed the preset.

Sorry for the long list of questions. Thanks and Happy Holidays!!

"I hope it has a xover bypass!"


For $5000???!! Duh....

Lets keep this thread on topic, PLEASE

Does the DD-18 have a crossover bypass for sure? I'm still wondering after reading this from the start of the thread:

<<Re the THX mode, ALL the crossovers are handled by the processor, and in that case you'd want to run the DD low pass crossover up to 199 Hz (the slope doesn't really matter at this point).>>

-Brian

Originally posted by bujji
Hi all,
I received my DD-12 few days back set it up and love it. It never feels boomy and the sound is outstanding. There's also a review in Secrets of hifi if you haven't read already on DD-18. Anyway, I would like to Thank all of you for anwering my questions few weeks back. I need couple clarifications:
1. Beginning of the manual says to set LFE crossover at 120Hz in either the pro or the sub but later during the setup manual suggests to change the LFE in the sub to where the pro lfe crossover was. My question is what are people using? Are you using the same LFE crossover in both the preand sub or should I set one of them at 120Hz. If so, which one i.e., B&K ref 50 or DD-12?

2. I have Diva swan 6.1 that goes down to 35 Hz. What should the crossover be?

3. In the Secrets review Johnson suggests that even for movies to use maximum servo ie set that last parameter at 08 instead of 01. I was wondering if Curt can chime in and let me know what he thinks.

4. My blue light stays on all the time and am wondering if it should go off when the sub sleeps? If yes, how do it set it up? Also, Johnson in his review says that when the sub receives a signal from the remote during preset change (movies, classical etc) the blue light blinks. Mine doesn't. How do I know that the sub has changed the preset.

Sorry for the long list of questions. Thanks and Happy Holidays!!

Hi,
I don't know your speakers but I'm assuming by the model number they use a 6 1/2 inch woofer. If so I'd call them small and/or cross them over at 80 hertz. If the B&K Ref 50 allows it, send a full range signal to the sub. If not send the highest frequency it will allow (120 or 150) to the sub. Then select 80hz on the subs low pass filter and work up or down from there for a good integration curve. If initially you want to use the processors low pass filter (80hz) in this case, put the DD's crossover to 199 which is our crossover bypass and just do the equalization part. The question of which low pass crossover to use is yours. The DD's will offer a lot more choices though. It's nice if the one not being used can be defeated or set well above the one being used.
I leave my servo setting at 8 most of the time but if I needed more volume I wouldn't hesitate to lower it.
If your auto on/off is in the active mode (bottom of system setting page) then the blue light should go off, in the standby mode after ten minutes or so of no bass signal. So if you have it in the active mode it would appear you have enough voltage flowing to keep the light on. It doesn't take much as the input is very sensitive. This is not unusual. John was incorrect about the light blinking when changing presets. The only time the light blinks is when changing the volume up or down on the remote. You will see the preset number change on the opening page as you change them on your remote. If you're aiming the remote at the sub, they will change. Believe me, I've tested it many times.
Thanks and hope this helps.
Curt

So Curt, are you saying that there is actually a xover bypass or are you saying that if you turn the lowpass up to 199hz, that should be high enough to avoid the problem of cascading filters?
If the latter, I MOST humbly apologize to Brian for making the bad assumption.

Ran

Ran,
I'm sure Brian accepts your apology.
Curt

Do the new DD models have a low level mechanical hum (created by servo system, I believe)? I have heard this low level mechanical type hum on the HGS-15 model from about 12 feet away, in a quite room, basically during a quite movie scene (not noticeable during loud scenes as movie sound over shadows mechanical hum). Other HGS series owners have commented to me on this same issue. Is this low level mechanical hum eliminated with the DD series? Or is it a trade off type requirement of the subs design?

Originally posted by curt c
Kipp,
Since your speakers are very efficient, we need to maximize the output of the DLS-4000.
1) Use a "Y" splitter into both inputs of the Velodyne.
2) Placement; in or near a corner, away from any openings.
3) Bring the receiver's volume control for the subwoofer jack up to about
3/4's of the way up. It's normally 1/2 way. (It's usually located in the
bass management section).
4) Call all your speakers "small" in speaker set-up.
Thanks,
Curt

So far the wife is satisfied. The 4000 is an excellent match for the Klipsch. Thanks Curt...:) :) :)

Bghead8che Brian,

I too was worried that my DD-18 would be slow or boomy. The DD-18 turned out to be super clean and very quick sounding. I'm sure that the EQ feature has a lot to do with the lack of boomyness.

For all those thinking about this sub, please note that it is unbelievably articulate and capable of scary power. I have it in a 6,500 cubic foot space (20*19*10 theater room that extends into other areas of the house) and will never be able to use half of its power. At a volume of 40 (DD-18) and my B&K receiver at -15, I am unable to keep my windows from rattling.

This sub even sounds full and warm at low volume levels.

Overkill maybe....I call it piece of mind....I am quite confident that I will never need more clean bass than the DD-18 can offer.

V

My HGS-10 and HGS-12 both had the hum, but to tell the truth, I could only hear it from about 2 ft. away and it was not intrusive in the least. Other owners may have had different experiences.

Ran

Originally posted by theranman
So Curt, are you saying that there is actually a xover bypass or are you saying that if you turn the lowpass up to 199hz, that should be high enough to avoid the problem of cascading filters?

Ran

Hi Ran,
Let me chime in on this one for a second. There is no "switch" on the screen that lets you defeat the low pass crossover. Today the answer is to run the crossover frequency up to 199. In theory, a true bypass would let the woofer run up to play all frequencies, and that is not a good idea.

But, as they say, it's only software. The next software update will have a defeatable crossover with an actual switch on the screen. What it will most likely do is set the frequency to 199. There are other updates planned as well.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Originally posted by Frank D
Do the new DD models have a low level mechanical hum (created by servo system, I believe)? I have heard this low level mechanical type hum on the HGS-15 model from about 12 feet away, in a quite room, basically during a quite movie scene (not noticeable during loud scenes as movie sound over shadows mechanical hum). Other HGS series owners have commented to me on this same issue. Is this low level mechanical hum eliminated with the DD series? Or is it a trade off type requirement of the subs design?

What you're hearing is actually electronic in nature. The HGS servo system, which uses an accelerometer mounted on the cone to send an analog acceleration signal back to a comparator circuit in the amplifier, does generate some background noise. As ran says, the noise is usually easily overshadowed by any signal to be played, but this is a complaint we've gotten on the servo system.

In DD, the servo system is all digital which eliminates the hum.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Hi Curt,
I'm so glad I bought Velodyne because you guys are great! Talk about service.

The speakers have dual 8" woofers.
I talked to B&K regarding sending the full signal to DD-12 and they suggested I set the Low pass to external which I just set. On the subwoofer menu screen there are still two items which are 1. Cross over and 2. High pass. What do I set them at? The guy at B&K told me to set them at the same frequencey as the sub and I'm confused. Should i set the crossover same as sub or at 200Hz. Thanks for all your help

Thanks Bruce,

Exactly the information that I needed.

Great products!

Originally posted by Frank D
Do the new DD models have a low level mechanical hum (created by servo system, I believe)? I have heard this low level mechanical type hum on the HGS-15 model from about 12 feet away, in a quite room, basically during a quite movie scene (not noticeable during loud scenes as movie sound over shadows mechanical hum). Other HGS series owners have commented to me on this same issue. Is this low level mechanical hum eliminated with the DD series? Or is it a trade off type requirement of the subs design?

Hi Frank,
The previous servo subs had a rushing sound (like white noise) that could be heard if you put your head close to the unit. The noise was created by the analog servo circuit (not mechanical). If you were hearing it 12 feet away you had a defective unit or It was some other noise. This noise has been eliminated in the DD series which have a digital servo circuit with a much higher sampling rate.
Thanks,
Curt

Originally posted by bujji
Hi Curt,
I'm so glad I bought Velodyne because you guys are great! Talk about service.

The speakers have dual 8" woofers.
I talked to B&K regarding sending the full signal to DD-12 and they suggested I set the Low pass to external which I just set. On the subwoofer menu screen there are still two items which are 1. Cross over and 2. High pass. What do I set them at? The guy at B&K told me to set them at the same frequencey as the sub and I'm confused. Should i set the crossover same as sub or at 200Hz. Thanks for all your help

Hi Again,
I sent you a PM, and haven't heard back.
Curt

I still haven't heard back from you, so for now let's go with this and fine tune crossover frequencies later. Set your two parameters (crossover and high pass) on the B&K to 80hz. The Velodyne DD low pass filter is already set at 80, or put it back to 80 if you've changed it. Now try equalizing for a fairly flat curve (+-3db). I'll try and find out more on the functionality of the B&K bass management system, but this should get you started.
If anyone out there owns a B&K Ref 50, feel free to chip in with help.
Curt

If you set the Velo crossover to 80, wont you be losing the top of the LFE 80-120Hz? The pre/pro shouldn't be sending a full range signal to the sub, only the LFE + BM below the selected crossover point.

I would just set the B&K to 80hz and run the Velodyne to 199 (bypass) and be done with it. Let the pre/pro handle the bass management...

Tom,
It's certainly an option to let the processor handle the bass management, in which case you would set the Velodyne's crossover to 199. Because of the greater flexibility of the DD's crossover, many would prefer to utilize it for even better integration with the satellites or speakers.
Curt

I can go along with that in two channel system. In a home theater, it might be better to keep the bass management in the digital domain to avoid the unnecessary step of a/d-d/a processing.

I guess you could so you send a full range analog signal (line level) to the sub and then high pass back to the processor and set the sub to (no) in the pre/pro but I haven't seen that done with a Ref 50 in the chain...

Curt,

What is the Q value or range of Q values for the DD-10 sub? And the others?

thanks,

Ran

This may seem slightly ridiculous, but here goes.

I have a smallish room (1500 ft³) and an F1500. It is almost as if I can't set the volume low enough on the sub, there always seems to be a ton of bass (lots is good, but this is way too much). When I calibrate it and the rest of my speakers to 85db, the sub is only set to "2" and I still feel like I need to set the receiver to -2 to -4 db to control the amount of bass. I'm not hearing distortion, it's just overpowering the hell out of my speakers.

Is an F15 just too much sub for this room, or is there possibly something wrong with it?

Hi,
There's nothing wrong with having the volume low on the sub. Just decrease the output on the receiver, -2 or -4 or lower if necessary. Normally the issue is just the opposite so enjoy having all that reserve.
Curt

Thanks, Curt, for your feedback re "dueling" crossover. I've been trying to figure this out for awhile now.

If I understand correctly, I can defeat my receiver's crossover (which can be turned "off"), and rely entirely on the sub (I have a DD10) to handle the crossover, without interfering with my receiver's other BM functions (i.e., "small" vs. "large" speaker settings).

I tried this, and my Avia test disc revealed LFE running to my left front speaker. Is this a crossover issue or something else? Does it matter what type of sub connection your using? I'm using analog line level.

Thanks again for your helpful input.

Hi Guys,

I ended up purchasing a DD-18. The mighty SVS is up for sale.

I haven't listened to the sub yet as I have spent the last 2 hours tweaking placement and settings.

A few questions for starters:

1. My processor has a Subwoofer XLR output. Is there any advantage to using this over the standard RCA output if I DON'T hear any noise or hum w/ my current setup? I would need to buy an XLR cable if I switched.

2. I noticed this right of the bat. In the manual all of the screen shots show a graph that goes from 0 DB to 100 DB. However, when actually using the software mine only goes from 0 to 87DB. Am I missing something?

3. I ended up using my processors's crossover set at 80 and the DD-18 set to 199. The processor does have the option to send a full range subwoofer signal. I own a Parasound C2 and they put a lot of work into making the crossover phase and time correct. Any reason I should switch and use the 18's crossover?

Thanks! I'll post my listening impressions soon.

-Brian

Click the link below to view the "Equalized" response.

http://www.softwaretraining.net/eq.jpg

How does this look overall? Is there room for improvement or should I stick with it?

I am concerned that I will not be getting sufficient low end response as there is a sharp drop off at 25 and below. Obviously boosting the lowest frequencies would overtax the amp and sub.

I anxiously await feedback!

-Brian

Last question for tonight.......

The smaller the "Q" number the more frequencies that are affected, correct?

-Brian

Out of curiosity, what is the range of Q values that are offered?

Ran

Originally posted by Bghead8che
Hi Guys,

1. My processor has a Subwoofer XLR output. Is there any advantage to using this over the standard RCA output if I DON'T hear any noise or hum w/ my current setup? I would need to buy an XLR cable if I switched.

2. I noticed this right of the bat. In the manual all of the screen shots show a graph that goes from 0 DB to 100 DB. However, when actually using the software mine only goes from 0 to 87DB. Am I missing something?

3. I ended up using my processors's crossover set at 80 and the DD-18 set to 199. The processor does have the option to send a full range subwoofer signal. I own a Parasound C2 and they put a lot of work into making the crossover phase and time correct. Any reason I should switch and use the 18's crossover?

Thanks! I'll post my listening impressions soon.

-Brian

Hi Brian,
We've been on and offline over the holidays, sorry for the delayed response.

In response to your questions:
1. THe XLR (or balanced) input doesn't really offer any benefit if your system is noise free as you say. All inputs are summed and go to the same A to D conversion circuit.

2. You're talking about the Y axis on the graphs, right? Sadly, this is an errata that we have since corrected. We changed the scale right before we shipped to calibrate the system and the manuals had already gone to press. The key, though is to get a flat graph +/- 3 dB (see my comments on your graph below.

3. The Parasound and DD crossovers do essentially the same thing, so there is no compelling reason to use the DD's. Regarding phase/time sync, any delay usually shows up at or around the crossover frequency as a dip, and you can use the phase settings on the setting screen to compensate.


The smaller the "Q" number the more frequencies that are affected, correct?

Yes, the smaller the Q number, the lower the "Quality" of the filter, and the more frequencies that are affected up and down from the primary frequency. A low Q is like a very wide wave and a high Q can be like a needlepoint.

Out of curiosity, what is the range of Q values that are offered?

Hi Ran, sorry for not answering your earlier post sooner...

The Q ranges from .3 to 20.0, with a default of 4.3 (the default width for third-octave centers, which is how the EQs start off). The contour filter (one for each preset - set on the settings page), actually acts as a 9th EQ, and its Q is fixed at 4.3.

Graph comments next...

Bruce

Originally posted by Bghead8che
Click the link below to view the "Equalized" response.

http://www.softwaretraining.net/eq.jpg

How does this look overall? Is there room for improvement or should I stick with it?

I am concerned that I will not be getting sufficient low end response as there is a sharp drop off at 25 and below. Obviously boosting the lowest frequencies would overtax the amp and sub.

I anxiously await feedback!

-Brian

The graph looks very good overall, about +/- 2 dB above 30Hz. I would agree with you about the low end and would look to boost it up a bit. A few thoughts...

1. Don't be afraid to put an EQ or two down there. There is LOTS of headroom in the amp (1250 Wats RMS and 3000 watts peak - about the most you can get off a 117V line), and the DD-18 is the most efficient of all the DD subs, so it uses its power very effectively. Even if you "stack" EQs, the gain compression algorithms will kick in and protect from clipping or other unusual behavior if the headroom limit is reached, so the worst that happens is that is doesn't get any louder. However, I must say that this is a complaint we've yet to get with the DD-18.

2. You could raise the overall woofer system volume to see if it brings up the low end then tone down the rest of the graph to match the sats.

3. Is moving the woofer an option? There might be a suckout (cancellation) down there that no amount if EQ can fix, and if so you would be pouring power into a black hole.

4. You can play with the subsonic filter slope. It defaults to 24, a more gradual slope (like 6 or 12) might help.

5. Does you room connect to a larger area? We had a user in the UK who had a similar suckout at the low end. He thought his DD-15 was defective. He then realized that he was on the second floor and attempting to load his ENTIRE 3-story structure with the sub. He stacked 2 or three EQs down there and it worked - his comment was that the DD-15 was making his pipes rattle similar to a large truck or steamroller driving by - he had never heard that before.

So the moral is that is you are trying to load a large area, or a room that connects to another room, you may need to load up the power down there by stacking some EQs to load the space properly.

We get the comment a lot that one very nice thing about DD is that you can see the effect of these changes in real time to see what's working and what isn't.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

I'm setting up my first HT and chose the Velodyne SPL1000 Series II as my subwoofer. However, my lack of knowledge has me confused as to how it should be hooked up.
Blue Jean Cables sells single sub-woofer cables that have one connection on each end, does this mean that I have to buy two cables? My sub has both right and left RCA jacks (red & white).

Adding to my confusion is that my reciever (Yamaha RX-V2400) only has one sub-woofer output, so if the sub requires two rca jacks and the reciever only has one output, what do I do?

Thanks Bruce!

I will definately try your suggestions this evening.

-Brian

Originally posted by Carl A.
I'm setting up my first HT and chose the Velodyne SPL1000 Series II as my subwoofer. However, my lack of knowledge has me confused as to how it should be hooked up.
Blue Jean Cables sells single sub-woofer cables that have one connection on each end, does this mean that I have to buy two cables? My sub has both right and left RCA jacks (red & white).

Adding to my confusion is that my reciever (Yamaha RX-V2400) only has one sub-woofer output, so if the sub requires two rca jacks and the reciever only has one output, what do I do?

Hi Carl,
You only need one cable. The sub is mono in that it only plays one signal - you can get away with this with low bass since low frequencies are non-directional - that is you don't need them in a stereo pair since you can't tell where low frequencies are coming from. You plug the cable into the LFE jack on your Yamaha and into either the left or right jack on the back of the sub (I think the left input is labeled LFE, but it really doesn't matter). The sub "sums" together the L + R input.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Bruce,

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not quite clear on the Q value for the sub. I was referring to the overall system Q of the DD-10 sub. If this is confidential info, I understand.

thanks,

Ran

Thanks Bruce, that makes sense. I still don't understand why they would put left and right jacks on the sub if we only need the LFE, but I guess I don't have to understand.

Thanks again for the help.

In a 2 channel system you would hook up both left and right low level analog inputs to the sub.

Originally posted by Carl A.
Thanks Bruce, that makes sense. I still don't understand why they would put left and right jacks on the sub if we only need the LFE, but I guess I don't have to understand.

Thanks again for the help.

Hi Carl,
The two jacks do serve a purpose, but these days with LFE procesing in most receivers they are not used much. 2 channel system preamps/receivers often have a pre-out/pre-in L/R signal loop. Out of the box these usually have jumpers to connect them. They are used to run the full L/R signal to the sub, and then there are output L/R jacks on the sub that provide high pass crossover signal back to the pre-amp. This acts like the LFE processing - strips out the low frequencies for the sub to play and sends the high frequencies back to the preamp/amp for the mains to play.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Originally posted by theranman
Bruce,

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not quite clear on the Q value for the sub. I was referring to the overall system Q of the DD-10 sub. If this is confidential info, I understand.

thanks,

Ran

Sorry Ran, you're right - I didn't understand the question.

The unamplified Q of DD subs is about .7. However, depending on the model (shown in the upper right corner of the cover screen) we actually tell the software the mass of the cone, the spring constant of the suspension and other constants so that the software processing is able to compensate for these factors, effectively removing the Q element from the overall system.

Does that help?

Bruce

Bruce,

Thanks for the reply. That's some darned interesting software for sure. :) Yeah, I figured around .7, but I'm sure the tricks y'all play with the software can make it appear a little tighter or looser. Haven't heard one of the new babies yet, but I look forward to doing so and comparing it to a few other tiny tots.

thanks again,

Randy

Originally posted by BruceHall
5. Does you room connect to a larger area? We had a user in the UK who had a similar suckout at the low end. He thought his DD-15 was defective. He then realized that he was on the second floor and attempting to load his ENTIRE 3-story structure with the sub. He stacked 2 or three EQs down there and it worked - his comment was that the DD-15 was making his pipes rattle similar to a large truck or steamroller driving by - he had never heard that before.

That user was me :)

As Bruce says, I was having real problems setting up my DD-15 correctly but thanks to some outstanding after sales service from the UK distributor and the main UK Velodyne retailer, we realised that indeed my DD-15 was attempting to load 3 large, open plan floors!

This problem was overcome by a combination of closing doors in the upper and lower stories and stacking three of the DD-15's parametric EQs at the lower end of the frequency range.

After just one hour's work we managed to get a +/- 2 dB curve all the way down to 15Hz... with very usable ouput down to a staggering 12Hz. As Bruce mentioned above, the levels the DD-15 gets down to was having the same effect as a steamroller that was re-surfacing the main road outside my house - causing chaos with underfloor central hearing pipes.

I've since lifted the floorboards and lagged the pipes to avoid them making noise and the performance from the DD-15 is simply astonishing. I can see why Home Theatre Hi Fi.com made the DD Series it's Subwoofer product of the year for 2003.

Everytime I use the DD-15 with DVD material it impresses the hell out of me. I watched Bad Boys II last Saturday night and sat there with a huge grin plastered all over my face... the low end bass is so crystal clear that it just knocks you, physically, for six whilst underpinning the rest of the speakers to perfection.

Even using three EQs stacked in the same area the sub has masses of headroom to spare, more than I'd ever come close to using to be honest. I currently run the DD-15 at just 17 on it's volume scale and at -2 dB from my processor. Yes, it's that scary :D

I can't praise the DD-15 highly enough. An awesome, World beating product and no mistake.

I might be able to get a HGS-10 for about a grand. Is this a good deal? Will this be able to fill up a 17x13 room with nice clean bass for music and movies? The room is more or less open on the right side and half open in the back where the stairs lead to the second floor. It will be used for about 60% music and 40% movies. I am using a Yamaha 320 sub now and it is just not tight enough for me as far as music goes. It does somewhat OK on movies though.

Thanks,

PAT

Pat,

If you're a condo/apartment dweller and not trying to raise the roof, the HGS-10(version II, of course) is a sweet little sub. If you live in a house(and can crank it a little), I'd opt for an HGS-12. It totally depends upon your listening habits.


Ran

Hi Pat,
The HGS-10 was designed for small rooms. The openings you're referring to, make your room size very large and a 15" or 18" sub would be recommended. The HGS-10 would be working much to hard and limited in it's ability to energize the total displacement.
Curt

Thanks Curt & Ran. I listened to the HGS-10 tonight and although it was very good, especially for music, I agree it might be too small for my room. I do live in a house and my Yamaha is only a 10" sub and that does fill the room but it is just not as clean as I would like.

Thanks again,

PAT

Pat,

You're more than welcome. I know that the HGS-10 is very tight sounding, but I'm a little surprised that it didn't fill the room as well as the Yammy?...hmm. I'm guessing that the Yammy is either in a significantly larger enclosure, has a much higher Q value(assuming it's sealed), or both.
Yeah, if you're in a house, I'd step up to a larger sub than the HGS-10.

Good Luck,

Ran

JuBoy,

With regards to the 3 EQs you mentioned, what are they set at? +6 DB? I have to crank my subwoofer volume up to 45 in order to get a decent low end response.

-Brian

Brian,

Two of them are set at +6 dB and the third is set at +5 dB. This has given me a previously impossible to achieve +/- 2 dB curve from 20Hz down to the 15Hz lower limit that the DD on-screen graphic displays. It's quite obvious from this that useable output carries on way below 15Hz.

I have watched several DVDs with very low frequency effects at a few notches under reference level yet the DD-15 still seems to have masses of headroom left to spare.

If my DD-15 was a car it would certainly never have been out of 2nd gear and yet it still scares the living daylights out of me on occasion.

There was a scene in a recent episode of a well known UK TV soap show (Eastenders) where the actors were in the market square with a record store playing music in the background... I only knew that because the table I was resting my feet on started to move to the bass beat, I could only then start to hear the actual music very quietly in the background.

I also use my DD-15 placed on an Auralex Gramma isolation platform to avoid the sub imparting it's energy through my floorboards, which has the added benefit of making the bass much cleaner and ensuring the sub is impossible to localise.

A major benefit of the DD-15 hear has been that it's allowed me to 'visualise' what's actually been happening in my home cinema. Had I not been able to see the problem and deal with it, I could have gone on 'upgrading' to more and more expensive subwoofers and probably never got to the point I have now, which is as near perfect as a domestic (non-anechoic) room can realistically be. In that respect, the DD-15 has actually been a money saver, despite it's seemingly high purchase price.

Lets quit the bashing and keep to the topic please.

Bash post removed.

Thanks for this thread.

All I can say is that I have been extremely pleased with my HGS12 that I bought in 1999. In fact, it got me into a little trouble with my new neighbor at about 11 pm shortly after I moved into the new house. I was watching The Matrix and didn't realize that my neighbor could hear it in her bedroom in the house next door! Needless to say, it isn;t the best way to be introduced to your new neighbors. This sub rocks and I can only imagine what the DD series can do to worsen neighbor relations. :D

I always had a little hum when there was no signal going to it, but I remedied it by using car audio RCA Monster Cables that had a grounding wire running through it and used it to connect the outer RCA elements between the receiver (Yamaha RX-V795) and the HGS12, then the hum went away completely. It might have been possible that a ground loop or something existed between the two units.

I recently moved and had the new house prewired for 5.1. The subcontractor used RG-6 for the long cable run from the front of the room toward the back where the sub is now located. I simply purchased RCA to F connectors and used a splitter to send signal into both inputs on the sub. I don't know why, but I have not had the humming problem with the HGS12 with this set up. I don't care though, as long as it works without the hum.

Needless to say, I'm trying to be judicial in the volume control. especially at night, because I haven't been properly introduced to my new neighbors and I don't want to start out on the wrong foot again.

Originally posted by theranman
Pat,

You're more than welcome. I know that the HGS-10 is very tight sounding, but I'm a little surprised that it didn't fill the room as well as the Yammy?...hmm. I'm guessing that the Yammy is either in a significantly larger enclosure, has a much higher Q value(assuming it's sealed), or both.
Yeah, if you're in a house, I'd step up to a larger sub than the HGS-10.

Good Luck,

Ran

I've known distortion levels on some subwoofers to run to 40 and 50%. Distortion levels of 30% are quite common.
The Harmonics introduced by this high distortion is actually output that can be measured by a simple SPL meter. Therefore, while we could perceive that something may have the ability to fill a room, if much of this output is distortion, the listener is actually hearing muddied low frequencies and very little of the original signal. What is needed for accurate tight clean pure bass is something that offers very little distortion.

In my humble opinion, this is where Velodyne have always excelled.
As Curt mentioned above. All that is needed is the correct choice in size in order to energize the room well :)

Curt,
is there any reason why my DLS-4000 would be passing sound through when in standby?

My Yammie is in a bigger enclosure and is ported. When I said it filled the room I surely didn't mean it filled it with clean sound. Just muddied sound I guess. The HGS-10 sounded better that's for sure and it is in the clear enclosure (good conversation piece). For my room size and layout I don't think it gives me the best bang for my buck. Of course I have been listening to muddied bass for 2 years so what do I know.

PAT

Well, it seems you know enough to trust your ears, and that's a very good thing. :)

Ran

Hey Curt
Is Dave Santos still around (holidays ?)
Ive been waiting several weeks for some direction in getting my
F-180011 back up and running ( the amp wasn't the problem)-
Thanks

Hi,
We're back from CES. I forwarded your message to Dave, he will be in touch. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Curt@Velodyne

Curt or Bruce,

First I’d like to say how awesome this forum is. It’s incredible to be able to ask detailed questions about your set-up and get advice from knowledgeable customer service reps. Compare that with other companies where you wait on hold forever and have to be transferred several times till you get someone who even understands your problem.

I don’t even have a problem – my main reason for this post is to let you know how happy I am with my Velodyne Deco system. It fills my 12’ x 24’ home theater with much more clear sound and deep bass than I ever expected in this price range. And this is in my family room that has cathedral ceilings, an open stairwell down to the basement (door at bottom of stairs), and is also open to an 8’ x 10’ pantry above the stairwell.

I have the Deco speakers hooked up to a Kenwood VR-6070 6.1 (6x100 watt) channel receiver and use a Pioneer DV-563 DVD/DVD-audio/SACD player. Having 5 identical speakers sounds incredible with DVD-audio and SACD sources. I still can’t turn the system up as much as I would like without my wife complaining about how loud it is (I know, get rid of the wife, but that’s another issue). This Kenwood receiver gives you the choice of using the 6th amp for either a surround back speaker or a non-powered subwoofer. I’m currently running a dipole speaker from my old system as the back surround and running the Deco sub from the LFE jack. I’m considering getting another Deco Satellite for the back but I’m pretty happy with how it sounds now (and there aren’t a lot of 6.1 channel sources yet).

Now two questions:

From reading this thread I assume that you would recommend a 15 or 18 inch sub for my room. I’m not looking to upgrade now but would replacing the Deco 8” sub with a DD-15 make sense as an upgrade path?

I have a decent non-powered 10”sub from my old system that I’m not using. I could use it at the back of the room to provide extra bass in the surround channels (set the surrounds to “large” and run the rear Deco’s thru this sub). Do you think this would help or just muddy the waters?

And one comment:

I think the fact that the Deco speakers are 4 Ohms are scaring off a lot of newbe buyers.
The manual for my Kenwood receiver says:

Speaker impedance
After confirming the speaker impedance indications printed on the rear panel of the receiver, connect speakers with matching impedance ratings. Using speakers with a rated impedance other than that indicated on the rear panel of the receiver could result in malfunctions or damage to the speakers or receiver. (The rear panel says connect 8 –16 ohm speakers.)

That’s pretty scary even though Velodyne states “Impedance: 4 ohm nominal (compatible with 4/6/8 ohm receivers and amplifiers).

Thanks,
Rock

Rock,
First of all, keep the wife.
We're very proud of the Deco system. It's the greatest bargain in the H/T arena period. I wish more people would check it out. We tested it with many entry level receivers and never had a failure. Entry level receivers often save money on the power supply so they advise using 8 ohm speakers (their disclaimer), which require less current to drive. The Deco's are usually in the 6-8 ohm range and should not present a problem. Some 4 ohm speakers dip well below that and could be an issue with these receivers.
The Deco satellites are available seperately if you decide you need one or two more.
You do have a large area for the subwoofer to cover. There are a couple of ways you could go. The HGS-15X servo sub would be a major improvement and of course the DD-15 would be the ultimate way to go.
Thanks for the feedback and enjoy.
Curt

Curt,

I very much agree that the Deco system is the greatest bargain in the H/T arena. I expect to enjoy this system for many years. I'll probably get one or two more Decos for the back and dream about a DD-15 in a few years.

If you could get more people to hear this system (and directly compare them to the B* company's) you would sell a lot of them.

If you could sell a "package" with any of the entry level receivers (so people would know they were compatible) you could seriously cut into the HT-in-a-box systems people are buying with their HD TV's.

Thanks for the reply
Rock

Which sub in the Velo line would be comparable to the sub in the Deco system?

Frank,
The SPL-800 is the most comparible.
Curt

Hello,
I just started my home theatre system with the purchase of the Velodyne Deco Speaker System. I was wondering what the best receiver was for this system?

Hi,
Within a given price point most receivers perform about the same. Look for features or cosmetics that appeal to you. Any of the major players will be a safe bet. One thing I would look for would be some flexibility in the bass management section. For optimum performance with the "DECO" system, I'd look for one that offered a crossover in the 110 to 130hz area. Most current receivers offer several crossover points. Enjoy the speakers, they're really special.
Curt

I couldn't find an email link on Velo's website, so I'm asking here.

Can a person use the features on the Digital Drive Subs to help dial-in other subs I own? ie Can I use the On Screen Display/mic setup through the Velo to achieve a flat response in conjuction with a different sub/eq without having any LFE or signal to the Velodyne?

Yes that would work. It would also enable you to select a good location for the other subwoofer. That sub would require, as you stated EQ capeability.
Curt

Just want to thank David Santo and Curt for excellent support .
David really helped me out in getting back up and running .
Everything worked out great and will continue to support and
recommend Velodyne products .
Thanks Guys

Originally posted by curt c
Yes that would work. It would also enable you to select a good location for the other subwoofer. That sub would require, as you stated EQ capability.
Curt I thought I read "sub #1" would not need EQ ability if you added one of the new digital drive units.
I had planned to add a Digital 18" to pair with my HGS-18V2 and hoped the new one could EQ the room (with the adjustments available on the HGS-18).
True?...Not true?

Hi,
Yes, you could be playing sub #1 (non DD) and EQ with the new DD sub. That would be the normal way to do it. The previous question was a specific situation where he had EQ capability with the existing subwoofer and wanted to know if he could utilize the on screen display (of the newDD sub) in conjunction with that sub.
Hope this helps.
Curt

Hi Guys, I just went ahead and bought the DD-15 and then I realized that I don't know for sure if it is video shielded. Does anybody know if it is? Can't find the info at the Velodyne site.

Hi,
The DD-15 and DD-18 are video shielded, the DD-10 and 12 are not. Not enough room in the smaller cabinets to do it.
Curt

Originally posted by curt c
Hi,
Yes, you could be playing sub #1 (non DD) and EQ with the new DD sub. That would be the normal way to do it. The previous question was a specific situation where he had EQ capability with the existing subwoofer and wanted to know if he could utilize the on screen display (of the newDD sub) in conjunction with that sub.
Hope this helps.
Curt Good answer! Thanks Curt.

Thanks Curt.

I would like to know if the SPL-1200 Series II can accept spikes such as the Dayton 240-715 on www_partsexpress_com. I have a prewired location for a subwoofer that includes an electric outlet as well as a subwoofer cable outlet. The tops of the wall plates are about 16 1/8" above the carpet. I would like to try raise the 1200 up enough to fully cover the view of the outlets and I thought spikes might be a good way to do it.

Hi,
My guess is they will fit. The spikes I've tried all fit. The hole is 1/4" 20- thread count. Thanks for the question.
Curt

First I would like to say thank you for all the good info.

I am building a dedicated room 22x15x9. I am, currently using an HGS15 Should I try to find a used one for my second sub or if I go new what would match best with it?

Thank you in advance

Gary

Gary,
In a new sub, the DD-15 would be the ideal match and you would have the ability to EQ the room with the HGS-15 playing.
Curt

I'll echo the view that it is awsome to have this kind of access to the Co. Even good dealers usually can't answer all these kinds of questions with authority.

2 Questions:

1) Can you place the sub in a recessed cubby hole in the front wall behind the main channel speakers as long as the front of the sub is flush with the front of the wall. Was thinking about building it into the wall and then covering it with some sort of fabric so the sub does not take up floor space;

2) In a big room, what are the pro's cons of going 2 DD12 or DD15 vs. one DD18. If you use bruce's formula for SPL of 2 x pi x r x throw, for 2 DD12s you get 131.9 vs. 98.6 for a single DD18. Based on those numbers can you deduct that the 2 DD12s will generate 32% more output than the DD18? Also, what pros/cons (other than price) might there be to factor into the thinking.

Thanks!

Hi,

1) No problem, the closer to the floor, the better.

2) Here's the way I would equate this one. Lets' look at the size of the pistons involved, 9.7" for the DD-12 and 15.2" for the DD-18. Using (pi r**2) to get the area for each, we come up with 73.9" for the DD-12 and 181.4" for the DD-18. So if we add the two DD-12's that would give us 147.8", well short of the piston size of the DD-18. The throw (push) of the pistons would be constant in this example, so you can't double up on that figure. So two DD-12's would be closer to the output of a single DD-15 (126.7") than the DD-18.
In general, a second subwoofer of the same size and type, placed in a supportive position will add about 6db output.
The decision of two small subs vs one large one often has to do with placement space or attempting to get flatter frequency response at the listening position.
I hope this helps some.
Curt

jrz1, just bite the bullet and get the Velodyne 1812, then you will have the best of both worlds. :D

Curt,

That does help. I was incorrectly assuming that the model #s indicated the diameter of the cone and hence r was 1/2 the model number. With your correct figures, the decision is a bit easier. With respect to the mounting, I will likely sit the sub on the floor facing the listening area and placed in a small cubby hole carved out of the wall just larger than the sub itself. Thanks again.

Jim

Looking for some input from owners of the spl1000.... how do you like it? Is it good for listening to low-med volumes of music in a room 10x12?

Also, what is the primary difference with the II upgrade?

Velodyne Reply;
It is the finest sounding (non servo) small subwoofer I have heard. It would be perfect for your application. The series II adds more power (1000 watts), and a nicer looking enclosure available in maple, cherry and black gloss.
Perhaps some users might add their comments.
Thanks,
Curt

Thanks curt....

Are there any advantages of the DLS series over the SPL? At this point I'm looking at the SPL1000 (dont need the 1000W of the II) and then posibly the DLS3750/4000. I realize there is a big difference in W between the 3750/4000 and the SPL1000, but other than that, what other technical differences are there?

My primary application will be for music, then HT...I'd say 60/40 split...and my room is about 12x12. Looking for tone not shake. ;)

Thanks for the help. :)

Hi,
All the advantages go to the SPL. They have a very hi-tech driver and amplifier in a sealed box for ultimate accuracy. They are extremly tight and musical sounding. Higher power is always required for a sealed box, especially a small sealed box.
The DLS series are a bass-refex (slot loaded) design offering fine "bang for the buck" performance.
For your application go with the SPL-1000. You'll love it.
Curt

Any plans for a DD software update? I seem to remeber Bruce saying something was in the works in the early parts of this thread, that would offer some automated features for setting the EQ. Continue to LOVE my DD-15.

Tom

Originally posted by rkj
I would like to know if the SPL-1200 Series II can accept spikes such as the Dayton 240-715 on www_partsexpress_com. I have a prewired location for a subwoofer that includes an electric outlet as well as a subwoofer cable outlet. The tops of the wall plates are about 16 1/8" above the carpet. I would like to try raise the 1200 up enough to fully cover the view of the outlets and I thought spikes might be a good way to do it.

I checked further into the Dayton spikes and I was told they are metric and that I would have to change the box T-nuts to make them work on the SPL-1200 Series II. What are some other brands of spikes that are similar to the Dayton (PartsExpress) product?

Hi,
I'm sorry I'm not a spike user, so not up on the subject. Maybe someone can add assistance on this one. The spikes I've access to don't have any names on them. If I get more info I'll pass it on.
Curt

Originally posted by Tom Blake
Any plans for a DD software update? I seem to remeber Bruce saying something was in the works in the early parts of this thread, that would offer some automated features for setting the EQ. Continue to LOVE my DD-15.

Tom

Hi Tom,
Yes, we plan to update the DD software, but we don't have an exact date for the upgrade yet. Auto EQ, full range graphs, and several other features are planned. Existing DD owners will be able to download the upgrade from our web site and update the software on their units without returning them to a service center.

Glad you like the DD-15. The feedback has been extremely positive!

Bruce Hall
Velodyne Acoustics

Thanks Bruce! Sounds great - can't wait for the update. Those sound like tremendously useful additions to the DD software.

Tom

If anyone has found a place that offers good pricing on the new DD line, please pm me. Thks.

I have been researching subwoofers in preperation for adding one to my system. It will be used about 50:50 for music and movies, and so I need something that will perform well for both. The space in which the subwoofer will operate is somewhat over 3600 cubic feet.

I have been looking at three brands, Rel (Stadium and Stentor), Velodyne (DD 15 and 18) and the Martin Logan Descent. Based on everything I have read, it would seem that given the size of my space, the larger DD18 would be a good choice (and the opportunity to play with the 8 band eq is enticing :p ). The reviews I have read all praise it highly, but tend to me weighted towards movie material.

I have read in several places that the larger mass of an 18 inch driver makes it less musical (e.g. is slower and performs less well on transients, etc.) than the 15 inch and smaller drivers in the DD 15 and other speakers. I assume this can be somewhat offset by amplifier power, but am unsure.

Can anyone shed some light on this issue? Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by mccomiskey
I have read in several places that the larger mass of an 18 inch driver makes it less musical (e.g. is slower and performs less well on transients, etc.) than the 15 inch and smaller drivers in the DD 15 and other speakers. I assume this can be somewhat offset by amplifier power, but am unsure.

Can anyone shed some light on this issue? Thanks in advance.

Check this:

http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm

Rudib,

Thanks for such a quick reply. I understand now that the key variable is inductance rather than mass, but have two follow-on questions:

(1) Are larger mass drivers typically associated with higher-inductance designs?

(2) Where can one get the inductance figures for Velodyne (and the others). I have checked the Velodyne website, but the figures don't appear to be listed.

Thanks again.

I just bought a Deco home theater system but I'm having trouble picking out a good receiver for it. My price range is between $400-$900. I'm only going to be hooking up the speakers and the audio through it, Any suggestions?

I love my HGS-15(SeriesII) its amazing device :)
had some issues with amplifier blowing up after 2months of use :I
and now the infrared is broken and my sub is in waranty service...
Ignorin those bad things what happened to me, i cant imagine better sub for HT ;)

Hope it will last for years after that service

Originally posted by silentnight702
I just bought a Deco home theater system but I'm having trouble picking out a good receiver for it. My price range is between $400-$900. I'm only going to be hooking up the speakers and the audio through it, Any suggestions?

Hi,
I honestly feel within a price area most receivers perform about the same. With the "DECO" system, I'd look for a receiver with multiple crossover choices. Ideally one with a 110 or 120hz crossover point. You should have no problem finding one in your price range.
Curt

silentnight....check your PM.

Well, I got my new Velodyne today. It is beautiful and frustrating. I must be an idiot but I broke the microphone stand. Yep. The manual said to slide it in there after removing a piece (a piece I couldn't find to remove) so I slid it in and the plastic snapped. The owners manual is confusing to a novice like me but kind of fun. I gotta question though. I have it on auto on/off but the Velodyne light on the sub has been on for an hour. Is this normal? Is the sub off?

Okay, I found and answer from Curt after reading most fo this thread -
"If your auto on/off is in the active mode (bottom of system setting page) then the blue light should go off, in the standby mode after ten minutes or so of no bass signal. So if you have it in the active mode it would appear you have enough voltage flowing to keep the light on. It doesn't take much as the input is very sensitive. This is not unusual. John was incorrect about the light blinking when changing presets. The only time the light blinks is when changing the volume up or down on the remote. You will see the preset number change on the opening page as you change them on your remote. If you're aiming the remote at the sub, they will change. Believe me, I've tested it many times.
Thanks and hope this helps.
Curt"

But what do I do about it? If the light is on, does that mean the sub is on? What fix is there if I want the sub light to go off?

Glashub,

On the upper left hand corner of the "introductory screen" of the Digital Drive software setup menu you should notice a Revision number ie: V1.1, 1.2,1.3........
If that number is V1.1, then you will need to visit the Velodyne website at http://www.velodyne.com/ddupdate.html in order to download to latest software revision for your subwoofer.
Simply click on the link, download the software, and follow the on screen prompts in order to install the latest version of the Digital Drive software.

This should resolve your auto-on problem.

Regards,

Velodyne Tech support

David, thank you for the reply.

Anyone know whether the Velodyne warranty is transferrable? Found someone who bought too many subs and now wants to sell one new in box but since they're so expensive, I was concerned about the warranty.

Hi,
The Velodyne warranty is not transferable.
Curt

I've decided to replace my HGS15II with a smaller sub. The 15" is just too "much" for what I need. I'm at the 9 o'clock volume position on the sub and -13 at my Lex pre/pro(see what I mean.....)Smaller box doesn't hurt either. Space is a premium here in New York City. Room is 18x12x9.
I'm having trouble deciding between the HGS12II or the DD12. It will strictly be for HT. Thanks to this thread, I pretty much know what I have to about the DD series.

Just have a few questions about the others....
-I like the gloss finish. Why didn't Velodyne do that with the new HGSX?
-What differences, if any between the newer HGSX and the previous HGS?

Thanks again for an excellent thread,
Jose.

When can we expect 1.3 software for the DD18?
Thanks

Originally posted by Jose
I've decided to replace my HGS15II with a smaller sub. The 15" is just too "much" for what I need. I'm at the 9 o'clock volume position on the sub and -13 at my Lex pre/pro(see what I mean.....)Smaller box doesn't hurt either. Space is a premium here in New York City. Room is 18x12x9.
I'm having trouble deciding between the HGS12II or the DD12. It will strictly be for HT. Thanks to this thread, I pretty much know what I have to about the DD series.

Just have a few questions about the others....
-I like the gloss finish. Why didn't Velodyne do that with the new HGSX?
-What differences, if any between the newer HGSX and the previous HGS?

Thanks again for an excellent thread,
Jose.

Jose,
We brought back the HGS-12X (and HGS-15X) to provide a high performance servo subwoofer at a reasonable price. To keep price down we went with a Black wood-grain effect on the enclosure. Many of these units are built into entertainment centers or hidden out of site so our feedback indicated the black gloss finish was not a prime consideration. The new "X" models perform the same as the last HGS-II subwoofers.
Curt

Originally posted by cajunlab
When can we expect 1.3 software for the DD18?
Thanks

Hi,
Bruce is currently working on the next software update. At the moment we don't have a release date. We'll keep you posted.
Thanks,
Curt

Thanks Curt.

Hello, this is my 1st post here.
I've bought a Deco system from a Reputable UK Velo dealer (Uncle Eric)
Is there any point in me registering the warranty on velodynes website or not?
thanks

Hi Grimley,
It's always a good idea (though not required) to register your Velodyne purchase on our Website. We then have a record of your purchase. Your receipt may also be used as proof of purchase. Good luck on your Website, and enjoy the "DECO" system.
Curt

We are only half as crazy as we sound...;)

A Velodyne would be more than welcome to the party...

Curt,
I'm either going to buy an SPL1000 or 1200. (MkII's of course) I'm having a tough time deciding between the two, you know justifying the cost of one over the other. What is the significance of the 2hz difference between the two? In my application the sub will be inside the mains & beside the RPTV on the bottom of a rack. The room is 14' W x 24" L x 8" H. I'm mostly concerned with musical accuracy, both multi-channel and stereo.
Also what are your thoughts on using two subs vs one.
I don't have the time to read the entire thread so I apologize if these are redundant questions.

Thanks

Curt ,

It's " HIGH NOON "

Just one question. The manual for my CHT-15 does not mention the Video/Audio switch. Whe is the purpose of this switch?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Rogerr
Just one question. The manual for my CHT-15 does not mention the Video/Audio switch. Whe is the purpose of this switch?

Thanks.

Video 3 db increase.... leave it in Audio more accurate for HT and music.

Vinyl,

Thanks a bunch!

I couldn't believe the manual didn't mention the switch.

Hi,
Yes the "V" (video) position does provide 3db more output. Accuracy is not effected so use it as you choose. Most use the volume control of the sub or the internal bass volume of the receiver.
Thanks for asking.
Curt

Curt ,

If accuracy is not effected why have it ??.....

"....so use it as you choose. Most use the volume control of the sub or the internal bass volume of the receiver"

In other words "V" and "A" is a worthless feature ??

Hi,
The design concept was to have a switch that would make the volume a little louder for movies (V=video) as opposed to audio (A=audio). Many people turn the sub louder for movies, so it seemed like a good idea. In use however most found the volume control a better option as they weren't limited to a 3db change. This feature only appears on the CHT-15 and will not be on any future products as a switch on the back panel.
Sorry for the confusion.
Curt

I've got an FSR-12 sitting around collecting dust due to some small holes in the driver (love my kids!). How much would it cost to have the driver replaced and how would I go about it? I'd like to fix it and ebay it. If not I'll be ebaying it for whatever I can get for it.

Thanks
Randy

Curt and Bruce,

I have a DD-18 in a 21 X 21 room w/ several openings and vaulted ceilings.

I would like to get your advice and feedback on a suggested "EQ Curve".

Would you recommend settings the response as flat as possible? I can easily get a +/- 3 db curve from end to end. Or would you suggest a aiming for a nice house curve. If so, at what frequencies would you recommend starting and ending the curve? According to the manual a flat curve is desirable.

I have poor low end response in my room. In order to boost the low end would you recommend using the EQ first or raising the subs volume? Both work in my room.

Thanks in advance.

-Brian

Hi,
I would first do the EQ (+-3db is excellent), then I would raise the volume of the subwoofer to where it sounds full and rich. Human hearing drops off rapidly at low frequencies and a system that measures flat will sound bass shy to most of us. I would increase the volume of the subwoofer at least 5db (more if needed) and see how that sounds.
Thanks,
Curt

Thanks Curt,

So you personally prefer a flat curve boosted rathen than a house curve with a boost?

-Brian

Yes, that's the way I would do it. However with the DD you have the flexibility to try different options.
Curt

Curt,

Any news on the Signature 1812?

Damon

Originally posted by DANewsome
Curt,

Any news on the Signature 1812?

Damon

Hi Damon,
The Digital Drive 1812 Signature Edition (its new name) is shipping - has been for a few months now. Was there any specific info you were looking for?

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce,

Another DD question:

I see that the DD has no trigger-on switch(although it does indeed have signal-sensing on) but does have a power switch on the remote. If the back of the sub is in the "on" mode, does the remote power switch put it into a sort of standby mode if you turn it off? Also, if the back of the sub is in the "off" mode, will the remote still work to turn it on?

thanks,

Randy

ps-what's the latest version of DD software incorporated into the subs that are selling now, and are the downloadable software upgrades free or is there a fee?

MSRP of the 1812?

Originally posted by theranman
Bruce,

Another DD question:

I see that the DD has no trigger-on switch(although it does indeed have signal-sensing on) but does have a power switch on the remote. If the back of the sub is in the "on" mode, does the remote power switch put it into a sort of standby mode if you turn it off? Also, if the back of the sub is in the "off" mode, will the remote still work to turn it on?

thanks,

Randy

ps-what's the latest version of DD software incorporated into the subs that are selling now, and are the downloadable software upgrades free or is there a fee?

Hi Randy,
THe POWER button on the remote forces the unit into standby mode (no output and the amp stops switching, causing the unit to draw minimal power to run the computer only). Pressing the POWER button again or cycling the switch on the back panel brings it out of "Power off" mode.

The latest DD version is V1.4. Downloads are free of charge. The changes have been minor - we fixed one bug so the units would run better in Japan (with only 100 volts), and we changed the default preset to 4.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Originally posted by Bghead8che
MSRP of the 1812?

Hi,
MSRP is $14,999.

Bruce

Thanks, Bruce.

Randy

Bruce - just checked the Support section of your website and version 1.2 of the DD software is still posted. That's the same version installed on my DD-15, purchased shortly after its release last year. Will 1.4 be posted for on-line download soon? Thanks!

Tom

Yes, very soon. We're almost ready to introduce our new website.
Thanks,
Curt

Bruce,
I thought you said you were going to add an AutoEQ function in the next DD firmware release, no?

Curt or Bruce,

Yep, auto-eq would indeed be a great feature.
Another incredibly useful feature that wouldn't be too difficult to implement would be to have a full frequency response sweep(20-20k)...sure would be nice to see what's going on in the room...front pair, single speaker, whole system, etc.

Ran

Bruce/Curt,

No, I don't have any specific questions, I was just interested in reading some literature on the 1812. Are any reviews due soon?

However, I do have a question on which speaker to purchase. I currently have a Sunfire True Subwoofer in an 11' x 18' room. I am looking at either the DD-18 or DD-15. Any advice on which to choose? Is the only difference 1 or 2Hz on the bottom end? Speakers are B&W Nautilus 804s.

Thanks,

Damon

Originally posted by theranman
Curt or Bruce,

Yep, auto-eq would indeed be a great feature.
Another incredibly useful feature that wouldn't be too difficult to implement would be to have a full frequency response sweep(20-20k)...sure would be nice to see what's going on in the room...front pair, single speaker, whole system, etc.

Ran

Hi,
Both auto EQ and full frequency sweep are receiving strong consideration for the next major software update.
Thanks,
Curt

Curt,

That's great news, but would that "major software update" be user downloadable, require sending the sub back to Velodyne, or require the purchase of a new sub?

thanks

Originally posted by DANewsome
Bruce/Curt,

No, I don't have any specific questions, I was just interested in reading some literature on the 1812. Are any reviews due soon?

However, I do have a question on which speaker to purchase. I currently have a Sunfire True Subwoofer in an 11' x 18' room. I am looking at either the DD-18 or DD-15. Any advice on which to choose? Is the only difference 1 or 2Hz on the bottom end? Speakers are B&W Nautilus 804s.

Thanks,

Damon

Hi Damon,
If your room is shut off (no permanent openings), the DD-15 will be more than adequate. The main difference between the two is the DD-18 can play louder and go deeper (think 16hz pedal organ) with authority. However in your small room it would not be an issue. There will be several reviews on the DD-15 and DD-18 appearing in the next few weeks.
Thanks,
Curt

Originally posted by theranman
Curt,

That's great news, but would that "major software update" be user downloadable, require sending the sub back to Velodyne, or require the purchase of a new sub?

thanks

Randy,
User downloadable for sure!!
Curt

Curt,

A software update that adds *2* fantastic features??..whoa! :)

Ran

How does the D10 compare to the DD12?

The DD10 that I have on demo needs to be turned up fairly loud before sub-40Hz sound starts to appear. This seems to be a non-linear characteristic of the speaker. 40-80Hz levels don't change as much when volume changes. Is this aspect better with the DD12 (ie, will I get more bass at lower levels)?

The DD12 is supposed to go a couple of Hz lower, which does not seem much; is the real world performance different more apparent?

The DD12 is magneticly shielded, which sounds like a good thing...

Size is a strong minus for the DD12, in my case, so I would prefer to stick with the DD10 if there is not much difference.

Curt,

Can you tell us where the reviews on the DD15 and DD18 will be appearing so that we don't miss them?

Hi,
You did not mention room size or sub placement location, which are the two most important issues in determining the proper subwoofer size. The DD-12 has more output at all frequencies than the DD-10. BTW neither the DD-10 or the DD-12 are video shielded. The DD-15 and 18 are. Since your response is non linear, that could indicate poor location or too small a subwoofer. If your room is larger than 2000 cubic feet a DD-12 would be a better choice. If your room opens into other rooms, they too must be included in the room measurement. Try to find a location where the response is flattest. I'd start in or near a corner, away from any openings into other rooms and then use the EQ to try and achieve a +-3db curve.
Hope this helps.
Curt

Originally posted by mccomiskey
Curt,

Can you tell us where the reviews on the DD15 and DD18 will be appearing so that we don't miss them?

Hi,
THe first two are;
1) Stereophile, May issue out in April. (DD-18)
2) Home Entertainment, May issue out in April. (DD-15)

These are the dates we've been given.
Curt

The new website is fantastic. I particularly like the 'Cool Installs' section - great idea!

Congrats on the new site. Very easy to navigate.....

I see that Version 1.14 is out! Can you run down a list of changes/improvements?

Now I just need to figure out how to move my subwoofer upstairs to my computer room to update the software!

-Brian

What's the difference between the "DD" and the "DD/Artison" software update?
Also, 1.2 was a simple exe file, but 1.4 is a conglomeration of files with no "readme.txt" file included.
I assume we simply connect a serial cable from laptop to RS232-IN jack & run the A.BAT file.
Is this correct?

Cajun,

What do you own?

-Brian

I think that you are supposed to compile a new digdrive.a0 by running the a.bat and then use ddupdate.exe from the v1.2 package to update the sub. First you should correct the path in the dd.cmd by removing "C:\". Otherwise it won't find the appropriate file.

I have yet to receive my DD-18 so I cannot confirm this. It sure does seem a bit too complicated without a readme file.

Our apologies - we put the wrong zipped folders up there. Please hold off until we post the correct files.

The correct update will have a self-extracting executable and update utility that will lead you through the update.

Thanks
Bruce

Bruce,

What is in the update?

Bghead8che,
the DD18.
MauriE,
I thought the mak files sounded awfully familiar ;) (from programming days).

The correct links are up there now. Thanks for your patience.

Bruce

Originally posted by cajunlab
What's the difference between the "DD" and the "DD/Artison" software update?
Also, 1.2 was a simple exe file, but 1.4 is a conglomeration of files with no "readme.txt" file included.
I assume we simply connect a serial cable from laptop to RS232-IN jack & run the A.BAT file.
Is this correct?

Here's an explanation of the software updates on the site.

The Digital Drive 1.4 update is a simple change - it changes the default preset to 4 and sets theater/music to 8 during the sweep (it is currently set at 1). That is the only substantial difference between this version and versions 1.2 and 1.3.

The Artison update reflects a new program that we are initiating. The download optimizes the default values for crossover, slope and other settings for the Artison Portriat speaker system. We expect to offer customized downloads for other speaker models in the future. If you look on the news link on the site, you will see a press release that describes the relationship between Velodyne and Artison.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Originally posted by curt c
Hi,
You did not mention room size or sub placement location, which are the two most important issues in determining the proper subwoofer size.

Thanks. I have about 1800 cubic feet. Sounds like I need to experiment more with placement and that there will be no special advantage in going for a DD12

Originally posted by mccomiskey
Curt,

Can you tell us where the reviews on the DD15 and DD18 will be

There are a couple of reviews (in French) at http://audiophilefr.free.fr/der_essais.php

PS: What is it about the DD10 and DD12 that denies them THX Ultra2 certification? (It is not really clear what selecting "THX Ultra2 SWFR (THX Ultra2 subwoofer) Use this feature to select the THX Ultra2-compatible
subwoofer." on the Yamaha Z9 receiver does.)

Hi,
The primary requirement for a subwoofer to be certified "Ultra II" is the ability to play very loud with low distortion at 20hz. The HGS-15 and 18 (and now DD-15 and 18) were the first and only stand alone subwoofers to pass this requirement. Some competitors subwoofers can do it with two units. We have not determined whether the DD-12 can pass this rigid test. Certainly a pair could.
Curt

When calibrating with an SPL meter or the YPAO mike, the recommendation is to have the mike pointing up. The DD mike seems to be set up to point in a particular direction. I find that the response curve varies quite a bit with the location of the microphone. How should I place/point the DD mike?

We recommend pointing the microphone toward the front sound field for best results. Moving the mic will, to some degree affect the response curve. Work toward removing the major peaks and valleys and don't worry about minor differences.
Thanks,
Curt

Maybe you have a cross-over cable rather than a straight through one?

Originally posted by cajunlab
well I cant flash my dd18 to 1.4.
i turned it on while holding down volume up&dn.
Light is amber on sub.
I tried thru both COM1 and COM3.
Software progress bar proceeds as tho it is flashing but screen on sub at power off & on still says 1.2.
I expected the amber light to flash as it took the update but it stayed solid.
Obviously the software has no clue whether it is sending & receiving to sub correctly since only one serial cable is connected yet the progress bar proceeds regardless of which com port I select.
I even went to device manager & configured port to 115800,N,8,1 to match the temp ini file.
Plus i get a message saying software update is complete....which it is not.
Frustrating.
Has anyone else been able to update to 1.4?

Hi Cajun,
Sorry for the frustration. THe most common cause of this is that you are using a null modem serial cable instead of a mouse extension cable. Using this cable will cause pins 2 and 3 to be reversed between your PC and the DD, and this means that the DD won't see the serial info. We have cables here if you need one, or you can pick one up at your local computer store.

And yes, the utility is pretty simplistic in that there is no actual feedback from the unit during update. It would behave the same if no cable were attached.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

A further point on calibration / equalisation best practise: should calibration be done with the receiver in "straight/pure" mode, or should it be done with the receiver's equalisation applied?

For example, should THX reequalisation / boundary gain compensation be applied?

I was interested in the following snippet from an Interview with John Dahl from THX Regarding THX Select & Ultra2: (http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/THXp2.html)

Q: Why is the “Boundary Gain Compensation” feature limited to a 55Hz high pass filter, as opposed to an adjustable parametric EQ for higher flexibility and system integration where particular speaker placements and room modes adversely affect performance?

A: Again, it's the “how much rope” issue. In this case, you'll find some of the high-end manufacturers have heard your request and jumped into the fray with so-called “Room EQ” or “Room Calibration” auto or manual. In THX land, the BGC is a carefully chose compromise. It is our overwhelming experience that proper EQ of a system can be beneficial, but ONLY if the operator knows exactly what he's doing. Automated systems are mostly junk. Systems that provide EQ above 1K or so are mostly junk. Octave systems are junk. Lexicon and Meridian both have systems that are showing promise but we've not yet finished our evaluations. The Meridian system in particular has a prayer of improving the system rather than simply changing it.

Some rules of thumb follow:

- Use EQ only as the last step in calibration. Good speakers, properly located in a good room with properly located seating, should all come first.
- EQ in the bass region only. Usually <200Hz
- Parametric is best, but 12 th octave can be somewhat useful.
- More than two sections of EQ per channel are usually too many.
- Cut only no boost.
- Steady state measurements such as RTA only reveal part of the problem and have only approximate correspondence to human perception.

Gentlemen,

Hopefully this is the appropriate forum for these questions regarding my Velodyne DD-15.

1) Is there a ceiling on the response curve graph? In other words, I am concerned that the response line cannot go over the 87Hz top, and therefore if you max out volume and bump up to the top the curve will appear unrealistically flat. This seems to be the case in pictures from other forums and supported by my own testing. Has anyone else noticed or tested this?

2) I am fortunate enough to be using a Denon 2200, Rotel 1065, and B&W CDMs (9NTs, CNT and SNTs). That gives me 4 crossovers to mess up - Denon's fixed 80Hz, Rotel's variable frequency, and Velodyne's variable frequency and slope high-pass and subsonic filters. I wish to use the Denon to enable bass management for DVD-A and SACD playback as well as delay management for DVD-A (I would lose all digital management with the Rotel's 5.1 analog inputs). I can think of no way, however, to feed the DD-15's signal into the Denon player to actually use its crossover. My compromise is to assume that the Rotel's crossover set at 80Hz would mimic the Denon, set up the DD-15 using the Rotel's crossover, then defeat the Rotel and activate the Denon's for playback. (DD is set at 120Hz.) Is there a better way? I suppose I could use Avia and the Radio Shack SPL meter to confirm the curve from the Denon correlates with the Rotel. Comments?

3) Could anyone post photos of "raw" response curves that demonstrate various locations for your sub (using only polarity and phase adjustments), comment on which location you chose (and why), and then photo your final EQ'd response curve? I am interested in whether it is better to have a smooth response varying several more dB or a curve with sharper peaks and valleys within a smaller dB range.

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Paul

Bruce,

I updated to v1.4 in my DD15 without any problem. The procedure was very easy to perform and I used a standard serial cable I had laying around. Thanks for posting it to the website (the new website looks great BTW!). Could you tell me what the difference between the two posted v1.4 files is? Since they were the same size and date, I assumed they were the same. I used the one that was just entitled "Digital Drive Software Update v1.4". I look forward to the update that adds Auto-EQ. I think this will be a tremendously useful feature that would increase the marketability of the DD line. I'm sure it's not easy to implement, however! Anyway, thanks for considering adding this very valuable feature, and I continue to be thrilled with the performance of my DD-15!

Tom

Originally posted by Tom Blake
Bruce,

I updated to v1.4 in my DD15 without any problem. The procedure was very easy to perform and I used a standard serial cable I had laying around. Thanks for posting it to the website (the new website looks great BTW!). Could you tell me what the difference between the two posted v1.4 files is? Since they were the same size and date, I assumed they were the same. I used the one that was just entitled "Digital Drive Software Update v1.4". I look forward to the update that adds Auto-EQ. I think this will be a tremendously useful feature that would increase the marketability of the DD line. I'm sure it's not easy to implement, however! Anyway, thanks for considering adding this very valuable feature, and I continue to be thrilled with the performance of my DD-15!

Tom

Hi Tom,
The Digital Drive 1.4 update is a simple change - it changes the default preset to 4 and sets theater/music to 8 during the sweep (it is currently set at 1). That is the only substantial difference between this version and versions 1.2 and 1.3.

The Artison update reflects a new program that we are initiating. The download optimizes the default values for crossover, slope and other settings for the Artison Portriat speaker system. We expect to offer customized downloads for other speaker models in the future. If you look on the news link on the site, you will see a press release that describes the relationship between Velodyne and Artison.

Re the auto-EQ, yes, it is a challenge but only software. We will have it out later this year along with some other features.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Bruce,
I admire your confidence "it is only software".
One question regarding your implementation:
Will it intelligently interact with the feedback from the microphone to arrive at a suggested setting?
As difficult as it is to manually do, I'm amazed you can automate the process.
Well maybe not since computers are much better at iterative processes than we are.
The avalanche has begun:
Will you partner with Vienna Acoustics similar to Artison?
Good luck.

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the reply! I discovered the press release on your realtionship with Artisan while exploring your new website, so understand the differences between the 2 files posted. That seems like a great idea to optimize x-over settings for certain loudspeaker brands. Don't suppose you have anything in the works with Dynaudio :) It does seem like 1.4 was a minor update. Nontheless it's nice to stay current as well as being able to update the unit so easily via the internet and a PC.

Tom

Originally posted by jrpavel
A further point on calibration / equalisation best practise: should calibration be done with the receiver in "straight/pure" mode, or should it be done with the receiver's equalisation applied?

For example, should THX reequalisation / boundary gain compensation be applied?

I was interested in the following snippet from an Interview with John Dahl from THX Regarding THX Select & Ultra2: (http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/THXp2.html)

Q: Why is the ?Boundary Gain Compensation? feature limited to a 55Hz high pass filter, as opposed to an adjustable parametric EQ for higher flexibility and system integration where particular speaker placements and room modes adversely affect performance?

A: Again, it's the ?how much rope? issue. In this case, you'll find some of the high-end manufacturers have heard your request and jumped into the fray with so-called ?Room EQ? or ?Room Calibration? auto or manual. In THX land, the BGC is a carefully chose compromise. It is our overwhelming experience that proper EQ of a system can be beneficial, but ONLY if the operator knows exactly what he's doing. Automated systems are mostly junk. Systems that provide EQ above 1K or so are mostly junk. Octave systems are junk. Lexicon and Meridian both have systems that are showing promise but we've not yet finished our evaluations. The Meridian system in particular has a prayer of improving the system rather than simply changing it.

Some rules of thumb follow:

- Use EQ only as the last step in calibration. Good speakers, properly located in a good room with properly located seating, should all come first.
- EQ in the bass region only. Usually <200Hz
- Parametric is best, but 12 th octave can be somewhat useful.
- More than two sections of EQ per channel are usually too many.
- Cut only no boost.
- Steady state measurements such as RTA only reveal part of the problem and have only approximate correspondence to human perception.

Hi,
Initially I would start with the receiver in the pure/straight mode. I am very suspicious of the current auto-eq systems out there. As John Dahl (THX) states most of them are junk and offer little if any improvement and can in fact make the situation worse. I have not had any experience with the "BGC" system. You might experiment using it before and after to see what the results are. I agree with John that placing the sub for flattest response is ideal and we do recommend that. Unfortunately many times that is not possible and the DD subs offer the user a very flexible tool in correcting for locations that are less than ideal.
I am in agreement (more or less) with John's "rules of thumbs" stated above. I do only EQ below 200hz. Parametric is best. I often see that more than two sections are needed for optimum results, but I would agree use as few as needed. Cutting is certainly better than boosting. RTA's used correctly are an important tool in dealing with room issues.
John has not, to my knowledge seen or tested the DD subs. This is new technology.
Take Care and Enjoy.
Curt

Originally posted by PKocurek
Gentlemen,

Hopefully this is the appropriate forum for these questions regarding my Velodyne DD-15.

1) Is there a ceiling on the response curve graph? In other words, I am concerned that the response line cannot go over the 87Hz top, and therefore if you max out volume and bump up to the top the curve will appear unrealistically flat. This seems to be the case in pictures from other forums and supported by my own testing. Has anyone else noticed or tested this?

2) I am fortunate enough to be using a Denon 2200, Rotel 1065, and B&W CDMs (9NTs, CNT and SNTs). That gives me 4 crossovers to mess up - Denon's fixed 80Hz, Rotel's variable frequency, and Velodyne's variable frequency and slope high-pass and subsonic filters. I wish to use the Denon to enable bass management for DVD-A and SACD playback as well as delay management for DVD-A (I would lose all digital management with the Rotel's 5.1 analog inputs). I can think of no way, however, to feed the DD-15's signal into the Denon player to actually use its crossover. My compromise is to assume that the Rotel's crossover set at 80Hz would mimic the Denon, set up the DD-15 using the Rotel's crossover, then defeat the Rotel and activate the Denon's for playback. (DD is set at 120Hz.) Is there a better way? I suppose I could use Avia and the Radio Shack SPL meter to confirm the curve from the Denon correlates with the Rotel. Comments?

3) Could anyone post photos of "raw" response curves that demonstrate various locations for your sub (using only polarity and phase adjustments), comment on which location you chose (and why), and then photo your final EQ'd response curve? I am interested in whether it is better to have a smooth response varying several more dB or a curve with sharper peaks and valleys within a smaller dB range.

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Paul

Paul,
1)Best results are obtained when the response curve is located in the upper half of the screen. Be careful not to have any of the curve hit the top (no topouts!) as this will not provide accurate results.
2)Your method sounds logical to me and I don't have a better answer. Any better ideas out there?
Thanks,
Curt

Success with flash....I was the idiot...had modem cable.
Bought serial mouse extension cable...then had to bench-grind the ears off so it would plug into sub.
My bad, & all apologies.
I will now delete all my whiny posts.
Thanks, Bruce Hall!

The trace screen on my demo sub has a noisy (diagonal stripes in both S-video and (worse) composite) black background, not the clean blue that the screen scrapes I have seen show. How do I get a better picture?


The manual talks about establishing line level inputs and bi-amping.

3. Establish the Line-level connection (optional). Connect What? to a pre-amplifier’s main outputs and return them What? to your amplifier inputs. When installed in this fashion, your satellite speakers will be crossed over at 80Hz, which removes the lower bass from your amplifier and speakers, enabling them to do a better job reproducing high frequencies. By utilizing this method, you will have a bi-amplified system, gaining improved power and headroom for your system.

Can anyone explain what this is all about and what needs to be connected to what to make it work? (My receiver has pre-outs.)

Hi,
I have no idea why your picture is not correct. You might try running the Video from the subwoofer directly into your TV set.

The optional hook-up you're referring to would be in a stereo (2 channel) application. You accomplish the same thing in a Dolby Digital receiver or processor by indicating your speakers are "small".

Thanks,
Curt

I’ve read this support forum all the way through and have learned a lot.

My room is has 9’ ceilings and is 16’ x 25’ with a 16’ x 16’ L shape off the back resulting in 6,000 cubic feet in the primary space, plus two openings to a kitchen and hallway resulting in another 3000+/- cu ft. of secondary area = 9,000 cu ft. total.

Right now I’m using a single Definitive Technology SuperCube I (14” x 14” x 14”), which was a big improvement over nothing, but not the state-of-the-art experience I want. It is physically located in an area specifically boxed out and recessed flush in the wall for it (made of 1’ thick plywood) located under a stairwell to the right and 3’ back from the front wall.

From previous questions and answers in this thread, I’m already expecting a recommendation of a Velodyne DD-18. This will not fit in the existing boxed alcove under the stairs, so it would have to be located in the corner or along the back wall.

My questions are:

1). Can I keep and use the SuperCube I in the existing location (Front Right) in conjunction with a new Velodyne DD-18 in the Back Left? Or are these subwoofers too dissimilar in size and timbre character?

If not,

2). If I replaced the SuperCube I with a Velodyne DD-12, which dimensionally is the largest DD subwoofer that will fit in the existing boxed alcove, would the Velodyne DD-18 and Velodyne DD-12 work and blend OK together?

In other words, is it always best when using two subwoofers to use two of identical size or is it acceptable to mix and match sizes, if not brands?

The high level of exacting support evidenced by this forum has been the deciding factor for my plans to purchase one or more Velodyne DD subwoofers.

Thanks,

Chris Cargen

Hi Chris,
In theory it's best to use exactly the same sub when using a pair, or at least a similar unit. However I've heard of some strange things working out quite well.
Once you have the DD-18, you could see how it performs alone and with the Def-Tech. If I were going to use two, I would use the DD-12 or the HGS-12X as the second unit. They will easily outperform the smaller Def-Tech.
By all means get the DD-18. You'll be amazed with its performance. You're currently way undersub'ed.
Thanks,
Curt

Hello Curt

Thanks again for the effort you are putting into this thread. It naturally helps to establish a good relationship with existing and future. owners of Velodyne.

Ok to my question. My room is 26(l) x 18(w) x 9 (h) entry to it is via a set of double doors which are solid. From you web site it reccomends a 18" sub. I currently own a f1500 and although I have tried to sell it or trade it in. Its age makes it worth not that much at all. It is still functional. I would like to know should I do the following.
1. purchase a dd15 and add it to current one
2. purchase a dd18 and discard my current one
3. purchase a dd18 and add it to my current one.

If I am to still use my current sub. I am concerned how it will interact with the other. Since one the principle features of the new dd line is the internal eq. If one is eq and the other is not. Will that be couter preductive to the other and therefore ruin the whole objective. What is the best way to integrate the two? Do you plan to have an outboard eq device with microphone for your previous line? Or know of the existance of such else where?

Thankyou

Ben

Curt,

Thanks for your reply to my question above. Here's a follow-up question:

I've decided to spend a total of $8,000+/- retail for two Velodyne DD's and sell my existing sub. Based on my room description above, am I better off purchasing 2 identical DD-15's (2 x $3999) or one
DD-18 ($4999) and one DD-12 ($2999)?

Thanks,

Chris

In terms of cone surface area 1 x 18" plus 1 x 12" is slightly greater than 2 x 15" (368in^2 vs. 353in^2), but there's not a lot in it. Dunno about the excursion capabilities of the sub, or if there are any other factors though...

Dunc

Originally posted by cargen
Curt,

Thanks for your reply to my question above. Here's a follow-up question:

I've decided to spend a total of $8,000+/- retail for two Velodyne DD's and sell my existing sub. Based on my room description above, am I better off purchasing 2 identical DD-15's (2 x $3999) or one
DD-18 ($4999) and one DD-12 ($2999)?

Thanks,

Chris

Hi Chris,
Without trying them it's a hard call.
My first recommendation would be a pair of DD-18's (shop around for a good price).
My second choice would be a pair of DD-15's.
As I said earlier, it's normally easier to deal with two identical subs.
Good Luck,
Curt

Originally posted by benthx
Hello Curt

Thanks again for the effort you are putting into this thread. It naturally helps to establish a good relationship with existing and future. owners of Velodyne.

Ok to my question. My room is 26(l) x 18(w) x 9 (h) entry to it is via a set of double doors which are solid. From you web site it reccomends a 18" sub. I currently own a f1500 and although I have tried to sell it or trade it in. Its age makes it worth not that much at all. It is still functional. I would like to know should I do the following.
1. purchase a dd15 and add it to current one
2. purchase a dd18 and discard my current one
3. purchase a dd18 and add it to my current one.

If I am to still use my current sub. I am concerned how it will interact with the other. Since one the principle features of the new dd line is the internal eq. If one is eq and the other is not. Will that be couter preductive to the other and therefore ruin the whole objective. What is the best way to integrate the two? Do you plan to have an outboard eq device with microphone for your previous line? Or know of the existance of such else where?

Thankyou

Ben

Hi Ben,
I would purchase the DD-18, since that sub alone will do a fine job in your room. If you decide to try using your current one also (perhaps in the rear or side) I would have it playing when you EQ the DD-18.
Curt

Thankyou Curt

Ben:)

Here Ya go !

Hi:

I have a Velodyne F-1500R which has been mostly dormant for the last several years, due to the fact that the sub was just too powerful for the apartment I had recently lived in. Now that I'm in my own house, I have discovered what appears to be a problem with the electronics of the unit.

I first noticed the problem when I reactivated the F-1500R and noticed it wasn't playing any sound. When I adjusted the volume control, the sub would cut in and out at different levels of the volume control. After more usage, the sub will now stay on the and volume control will control the volume level, but if I turn my preamp to 0 volume and just spin the volume control through its range, the sub will make intermittent low frequency sound pulses randomly as the volume control is rotated. Same thing happens if I spin the crossover frequency control.

Aside from this the sub appear to be working. Due to the immense size and weight of the F-1500R I don't want to try to bring or send the unit back to Velodyne or even a local repair depot. Since the problem appears to be in the controls for the electronics, is the F-1500R built in such a way that I could just order a new electronics unit from Velodyne and swap it into my sub?

If so, who do I contact, and what is the cost?

Hi,
Please call our service dept at; (408) 465-2851 to get a return authorization number for the amplifier only. They will instruct you on removing the amp and repair costs.
Curt

Hi:

I've been shopping around for subwoofers and have been seriously considering the SPL-1000 II or SPL-1200 II. I need to fill loosely 3000 cubic feet of space, in a very strangely shaped room (http://www.melanierawn.com/irena/irena_livingroom.gif) - check the link for my diagram. I've identified two possible positions for the subwoofer. Would the SPL series be enough to fill this room? I'm 60/40 HT/Music.

Another question I had is in regards to manufacture. I've heard a number of warry mentions of the Velodyne subs from a few posts and also B&Ms, recommending that I not buy your subs due to "loss of quality since production was moved to China". Which of your product lines are actually manufactured in China?

Thank you very much for your time. :)

Hi Irena,
The SPL-1200II would be an excellent choice for your "strange" room. I would definitely start with position #1. (If budget allows, also consider the HGS-15X).
The SPL's, HGS's and DD's are all made at our factory in California. Some of our entry level products are made in China. We have not had any degradation of quality with these products.
Thanks for the questions,
Curt

On a DD pressing TEST three times brings up some debugging information. I assume that gclvl drops from 255 whenever velo has to compress the signal. It drops to about 50 (and under) quite easily with some punishment.

Accgainh tells how much the servo is participating and with theater/music at 8 it hits 57 at most and at 1 rises only to 15. Could someone confirm if my assumptions are correct?

It's certainly a nice feature and an easy way to check whether or not you're pushing your subwoofer to the limit.

Originally posted by MauriE
On a DD pressing TEST three times brings up some debugging information. I assume that gclvl drops from 255 whenever velo has to compress the signal. It drops to about 50 (and under) quite easily with some punishment.

Accgainh tells how much the servo is participating and with theater/music at 8 it hits 57 at most and at 1 rises only to 15. Could someone confirm if my assumptions are correct?

It's certainly a nice feature and an easy way to check whether or not you're pushing your subwoofer to the limit.

Congratulations, all your assumptions are correct! You have found what we affectionately refer to as an Easter Egg (appropriate since we are close to Easter). We use that info in debugging and calibration. The values you refer to are internal variables we use in the signal processing software section. GCLVL means Gain Compression Level and behaves as you mentioned. ACCGAINH is Accelerometer Gain High and again, behaves as you described.

Just for fun, here are a couple more easter eggs programmed into the DSP.

Pressing the up arrow four consecutive times followed by SELECT causes the unit's serial and model number info to be displayed at the top of the screen for about a minute. Pressing 6-7 in succession kicks the unit into an auto-accelerometer calibration mode for about 30 seconds.

And (be careful with this one) - pressing 8-9-0 on the remote restores all defaults, including the EQs. DON'T do this unless you want to wipe out all your room calibration settings!

Have Fun,
Bruce

Thanks for your reply, Bruce!

The 8-9-0 resetting and 6-7 calibration tricks can be found from the online manual (page 23 under restoring defaults) on your website. My printed manual only mentions the former.

Originally posted by MauriE
Thanks for your reply, Bruce!

The 8-9-0 resetting and 6-7 calibration tricks can be found from the online manual (page 23 under restoring defaults) on your website. My printed manual only mentions the former.

You've down your homework! Are you in the research field? :)

QUESTION ABOUT EQ Cables:

I have two DD-15’s on order. Both will require 40’ length EQ cords to connect back to my Pre-Pro, which has both a LEFT and RIGHT Subwoofer output. I intend to use RCA cable couplers to create a 50’ length from the 25’ audio and video cables that come in the box with each DD-15. But, I’ll have to order a new 40’ length audio and video cable(s) for to connect the second DD-15 back to my Pre/Pro.

I already own two 40’ lengths of XLR cable for the subwoofer signal cables.

My question is regarding the EQ cables.

Page 6. 4 of the Velodyne DD Manual states:

“Connect the audio/video cable between your subwoofer (EQ OUTPUT VIDEO/LEFT/RIGHT – yellow, white, and red, respectively) and your electronics (receiver, processor, TV, etc.). Insert the colorcoded cable plugs into the correct EQ OUTPUT receptacle – the yellow plug into the VIDEO jack, the white plug into the LEFT jack, and the red plug into the RIGHT jack. The opposite ends of this cable should be connected to your receiver/processor to an available audio input (e.g. AUX). The yellow VIDEO cable goes to an available composite video input (e.g. aux), and the white/red AUDIO (L&R) cables go to a corresponding audio input.”

Since I will be using one DD-15 LEFT channel and another as RIGHT channel is it necessary to use a triple RCA cable (video-audio left and audio right) for each EQ cable or would a double RCA cable suffice for each DD-15’s EQ cable (video and audio left) for the left channel DD-15 and (video and audio right) for the right channel DD-15?

Thanks,
Chris Cargen

Hi Chris,
You'll only need the one 50' triple cable you create by coupling our two cables. Hook up the cable to the EQ/Video outputs of one sub only, and run it into aux/video inputs on your processor. Then run your balanced sub out jacks to each DD-15's balanced inputs. You'll also need a serial (mouse extender) cable running from one DD-15 to the other DD-15. (This computer cable will pass volume and preset changes from one sub to the other.)
Play back the signal sweep via the aux/video input. It will be playing on your front speakers and both subwoofers. Now EQ the sub that is furnishing the signal sweep and video. (The microphone is receiving input from front speakers and both subs.) EQ'ing the single sub should produce excellent results.
Curt

I've seen some pricing listed for the DD series, but was wondering if street pricing has come down significantly from previously listed MSRP. I have 2 questions regarding this:

1 - What is the current US MSRP for the 10, 12, 15 and 18 versions of the DD series?

2 - Has street pricing come off MSRP? I ask this because I have seen pricing from places that I would expect to see selling items at MSRP much lower than the MSRPs previously given in this thread. Curt gave an MSRP for the DD-12 last October of $2999. However, Tweeter (Hifi Buys here in Atlanta) shows a price of $2499 for the DD-12. They also have pricing on the DD-15 at $2999 and the DD-18 at $3999. A newly posted April review from AudioRevolution gives the DD-12 MSRP at $2999 and the December Secrets review of the DD-18 gives its MSRP as $4995. No one, least of all me, will complain if street prices have come down but it just seems odd to see such a huge gap.

Thanks for any and all info.

Hi,
The above examples appear to accurately reflect the MSRP and "street" prices.
Curt

dear velo CHT12 users,

I don't know if it is okay to copy and paste a part of some other forum's posting. I apologize if it is inappropriate. I was about to place an order for velo CHT12, and while asking questions in this forum, someone directed me to the following posting somewhere else. I find it quite surprising... Do you guys agree with this? Or, is it possible that the velo mentioned below is a lemon? Bad connection? Any comment is appreciated.

"I also recently had the chance to demo the velodyne cht-12 of a friend. I didn't have my meter with me but the level of port/vent noise @ 31.5 Hz was disturbing. It could not be turned up to a decent level without generating that noise. Nevermind 25 Hz or below...the dB level must have been very low in addition to the excessive port/vent noise. Overall I was not impressed with the cht-12 and had even more respect for the stf-1."

Is CHT12 really this bad?

Thanks!

starlite ,

Look for pro reviews on the sub not what some boom boom head banger thought he heard ,all is subjective....;)

<< Pressing 6-7 in succession kicks the unit into an auto-accelerometer calibration mode for about 30 seconds. >>

And this does what?

Balances the wheels on your car. :)

Ran

Originally posted by Bghead8che
<< Pressing 6-7 in succession kicks the unit into an auto-accelerometer calibration mode for about 30 seconds. >>

And this does what?

This is an accelerometer calibration routine. Each DD accelerometer has a Piezo-electric diving board that reports the acceleration of the cone to an A/D circuit inside the accelerometer. This signal is then fed back to the DSP that analyzes it and uses it for correction up to 16,000 times per second (on theater/music setting 8). The calibration routine sets the sensitivity of the chip, which varies slightly from piece to piece. We do it here at the factory before each unit is sent out.

It isn't something that users need to do unless a new amp has been installed. And even then, the calibration is constantly updated inside the software so it will calibrate over time anyway.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Thanks. Sounds like I will just leave it as is.

I did like the idea of the tire balance though :D

Originally posted by Bghead8che
Thanks. Sounds like I will just leave it as is.

I did like the idea of the tire balance though :D


Feel free to use the routine if your sub pulls to the left ;)

Is there going to be a firmware upgrade that will auto equalize the DD subs to give the flattest response? I feel that I have dialed my DD-18 in as well as possible however, I am far from an expert. Too many variables to be sure. It would be nice to see a feature like this to check my work.

Hi,
Be assured we're working on it. Auto-EQ done correctly, is very difficult. My experience is that devices that offer some form of auto-eq, do a very poor job. IMO auto would be a starting point and manual would usually be superior. Sounds like you've done a fine job. Enjoy the music.
Thanks,
Curt

Curt,
I agree with you but you may be underestimating the difficulty the uninitiated have EQ'ing the DD's.
Tedious, time-consuming trial&error.
Software can excel at iterative (trial&error approximation) processes...
Although it sounds like Bruce is working on a one-time suggested setting versus a constantly improving approximation algorithm...(like Pioneer MCACC)....either will be a welcome upgrade to an awesome sub....and free!
Thanks for your contributions here.

Originally posted by cajunlab
Although it sounds like Bruce is working on a one-time suggested setting versus a constantly improving approximation algorithm...

Hi Cajun and vvv,
We are working on two ways to auto-EQ. First, a "suggest" button on the sweep page that will set the EQs to recommended levels but leave them available for further tweaking. Secondly, an "Easter Egg" that lets folks not using video to punch in a code on the remote and have the unit auto-EQ itself.

We've heard feedback all the way from people that wouldn't use an auto-EQ feature and love to tweak to those that find it too complex and want it fully automated. So, we're trying to accommodate everybody!

Look for this in the fall timeframe.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Are the DD subs shipping yet with a truly defeatable internal low-pass crossover (i.e. an "off" switch)? One can set the crossover to 199hz but this apparently does not fully eliminate the crossover circuitry. I seem to remember reading about this on previous threads and a software update was mentioned. I was reminded of it recently when I read the AudioRevolution.com review of the DD-12 which stated the following:

"As a continuing problem with the many current subwoofers, the DD-12 did not have the capacity to completely eliminate its internal crossover. When using an outboard processor or receiver, it may be preferable to use its internal bass management system and avoid any potential overlay of an additional crossover in the subwoofer. Although setting the crossover cutoff frequency to 199 Hertz is higher than many subwoofers on the market, there is still the potential for undesirable interaction. "

My old FSR-15 had a toggle switch on the back to do this. Why not the DD subs?

Originally posted by xrayyou
Are the DD subs shipping yet with a truly defeatable internal low-pass crossover (i.e. an "off" switch)? One can set the crossover to 199hz but this apparently does not fully eliminate the crossover circuitry. I seem to remember reading about this on previous threads and a software update was mentioned. I was reminded of it recently when I read the AudioRevolution.com review of the DD-12 which stated the following:

"As a continuing problem with the many current subwoofers, the DD-12 did not have the capacity to completely eliminate its internal crossover. When using an outboard processor or receiver, it may be preferable to use its internal bass management system and avoid any potential overlay of an additional crossover in the subwoofer. Although setting the crossover cutoff frequency to 199 Hertz is higher than many subwoofers on the market, there is still the potential for undesirable interaction. "

My old FSR-15 had a toggle switch on the back to do this. Why not the DD subs?

Hi Xray,
Your analysis is correct. There is no release that has this feature in it available. We will incorporate this feature into the next revision of the software, due out this fall. You'll be able to update your DD without leaving your house, assuming you have a computer with a serial port and the right cable.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

I have my sub dialed in +/- 3 db flat.

For movies where would you recommend a boost? 2/3DB at 35? What would you suggest.

-Brian

Originally posted by Bghead8che
I have my sub dialed in +/- 3 db flat.

For movies where would you recommend a boost? 2/3DB at 35? What would you suggest.

-Brian

Hi Brian,
+2 dB at 35 Hz is how we ship the "movies" preset. Of course, "your tastes may vary"...

Bruce

Originally posted by xrayyou
"As a continuing problem with the many current subwoofers, the DD-12 did not have the capacity to completely eliminate its internal crossover. When using an outboard processor or receiver, it may be preferable to use its internal bass management system and avoid any potential overlay of an additional crossover in the subwoofer. Although setting the crossover cutoff frequency to 199 Hertz is higher than many subwoofers on the market, there is still the potential for undesirable interaction. "


Hello xray, and Bruce as well,

Pardon my intrusion here, yet this is a point I have seen brought up about a variety of products, and I have yet to see many set the notion straight. While I would certainly agree that in theory the combined crossovers would interact in non-desireable ways, I have to seriously question any concern about a subwoofer's low pass filter set at 120Hz or higher. Even further, I challenge anyone to clearly show me how a 200Hz filter will adversely affect the integration with the mains in any significant manner.

While audiophiles love to think in idealistic terms, the Velodyne DD series under discussion here has already taken the important step towards reality of in-room measurements. The fact is that bass management as executed in most pre-processors is based on ideal system operation. This assumes your speakers and subwoofer to have a specific response type as observed at the listening position. As is clearly shown in any real world measurement, our systems tend to be far from ideal.

So what sort of problems would theoretically be observed when overlapping crossovers? We might see a recession at crossover from too much attenuation, or not enough subwoofer contribution above the crossover frequency to smooth the transition between the two. In reality we see that in room, our main speakers are no where near the ideal response for the internal crossover to work optimally. The large majority of systems have too much contribution from the mains at and below crossover, with peaks in the subwoofer's response quite common above say 65Hz, radically affecting our ability to seam the two responses together. In the end there are much more important problems to concern ourselves with than the negative effects of a 200Hz low pass filter on our subwoofers. Start doing some serious investigation and experimentation at multiple locations in the room with the DD's measurement and calibration capabilities, and possibly get a little program like TrueRTA or WinMLS which can even make use of the mic provided with the DD. This one definitely qualifies as chasing a red herring.

-rant over-

Enjoy the weekend... Cheers,

Bruce or Curt,

Are there any discrete IR remote power codes for the DD series? If so how can they be obtained? Hex, pronto ccf, or MX-700/800 mxf is fine. Thanks in advance.

Jeff

looking forward to joining you. btw -- i have downloaded the user manual and it is unusually clear, especially for a relatively complex topic (room equalization). hopefully i'll find it just as clear when i am actually trying to equalize my DD-12!

I recently purchased a new Digital Drive 18 and have a few questons that don't seem to be answered in the manual:

1) When removing the front grill, I noticed an XLR input. Is this for the microphone?

2) Does anyone have the IR codes for the DD, and perhaps a Pronto setup for the unit? I would like to consolidate the remote functionality into my Pronto.

Thanks in advance for you help.

yes -- the xlr input in the front is for the microphone (the dd10 and dd12 only have an input in the rear).

any suggestions for me??
First, please excuse my ignorance when it comes to home audio, I'll do my best to make the most sense possible.

A couple of weeks ago my dad gave me a sub that he had lying around his house after he upgraded his system. The sub is a Velodyne CT Series 10'' I believe. When he gave it to me he told me that he never remembered it even working but hadn't used it in a while. I brought it home and took the back plate off and noticed that it had blown a fuse. I tried putting a new fuse in but it blew that one immediately as well. After trying a few times I emailed Velodyne and David Santos responded saying "the amp probably has blown output devices that are loading down the power supply." He also said that the amp is repairable but that a new one would only cost me about $120 delivered. Does this make sense to any of you and you possibly help translate this into "laymans terms" for me. Also, when he talks about a new amp, is this referring to the entire back plate with all electronics connected??

Again, I apologize for my lack of knowledge but I need to get this working so I can have a working sub. Thanks again for your help.

Placing the microphone input also on the front of the unit makes perfect sense with the larger Digital Drive models.

Any ideas as to where I can find the IR codes so I can setup my Pronto?

Originally posted by Mark Seaton
Pardon my intrusion here, yet this is a point I have seen brought up about a variety of products, and I have yet to see many set the notion straight. While I would certainly agree that in theory the combined crossovers would interact in non-desireable ways, I have to seriously question any concern about a subwoofer's low pass filter set at 120Hz or higher. Even further, I challenge anyone to clearly show me how a 200Hz filter will adversely affect the integration with the mains in any significant manner.

Great post Mark.
Unless the two low pass filters are sitting directly on top of each other (cascading), I'd say users of the DD's are better off allowing the sub to do a little more work by fully utilizing it's high quality digital low pass filter.

For sats designed to be crossed over at the 80Hz mark (the norm in most cases), I advise an overlap to around 120-130Hz which will give the DD more control over this transition thus making it easier to achieve a smoother and seemingley seamless transfer into the higher frequencies.

Done correctly, one should have the feel of listening to multiple bass heavy large speakers rather than a few small sats and a sub.

For sats designed to be crossed over at the 80Hz mark (the norm in most cases), I advise an overlap to around 120-130Hz which will give the DD more control over this transition thus making it easier to achieve a smoother and seemingley seamless transfer into the higher frequencies.

Uncle Eric,

By the above, do you mean and suggest to do BOTH of the following:

1). Leave the crossover on the pre-pro set at the 80Hz mark
AND
2). Set the LOW PASS XOVER FREQ Setup in the DD to 120-130Hz?

Thanks

Chris Cargen

Chris-

It depends...

What I meant was that you really need to measure the response of the subwoofer alone in your room, as well as the subwoofer in combo with the mains to see what it really going on. Most mains have too much energy below 80Hz and cause dips and peaks in the summed response with the subwoofer.

Originally posted by cargen
Uncle Eric,

By the above, do you mean and suggest to do BOTH of the following:

1). Leave the crossover on the pre-pro set at the 80Hz mark
AND
2). Set the LOW PASS XOVER FREQ Setup in the DD to 120-130Hz?

Thanks

Chris Cargen
Chris,
That's right. I've found that in most cases this works very well.
You can do an A/B as Mark suggests just to check which works better and luckily the DD's allow us to do this very easily.

My priority when setting up DD's is always first and formost to get the transition between sats and DD as seamless as possible. In my experience, overlapping works very well in the majority of cases.

Hey All,

I was hoping some of you could help me out.
I want to make sure I have my speakers and sub hooked up right and set correctly in my receiver settings...
We mainly watch movies and cable...Hardly any music..

Equipment:
Fronts - Paradigm MiniMKII's or 3se-Mini's (no model#)(70Hz - 20KHz)
Rear - Paradigm Atoms (70Hz - 20KHz)
Center - Paradigm CC-300 (55Hz-20KHz)
Sub - Velodyne FSR-12B
Receiver - Yamaha RX-V596 (small/large speaker cutoff = 90Hz)

I have RG6 going from my Rcvr-LFE output-->Adapter "Y" connector-->FSR12 Inputs
Bass Out = Subwoofer
I have all speakers set to SMALL to enable all the 90Hz or less content to go out the LFE output

The settings on the subwoofer are what get me....3 in particular

1) Low Pass - 40Hz to 120Hz dial
2) High Pass - 80Hz OR 100Hz ONLY
3) Xover - OUT or IN

Can someone explain these to me in basic terms and help me set them correctly for my particular speakers??

If Xover is set to out, does that mean ALL sub crossover functions are off?
Is this what I want for my setup?

Also, it seems that sometimes my subwoofer wont kick in while in auto. I switch to manual and it wont kick in there either. I have to unplug it for about 1 minute and then. after replugging it back in, it will start working.
Lately I have been just leaving it on and turning it off with the remote each night.

thx
Mark