Interesting, I just checked and I am now getting audio again. Friends is coming through loud and clear so they must have fixed it.

Same here ... Good to see them on top of things :)

So - I have pinpointed the source of my pixelization, audio/video breakup on a couple of my HD channels and I need the MasterMinds on this board to help me decipher this information. I have TW connected through DVI with a pace 550 box.

Basically, the 2 channels that have intermittent problems are channels

905 - 585.000 mhz
998 - 675.000 mhz

905 works most of the time and 998 never works and always has digital breakup.

When the problem occurs and I log into the diagnostic screen on my Pace 550 box, I notice that the QAM errors are skyrocketing. On both of those channels during trouble times, in a 1 minute period, I will receive maybe 6000 errors that the box has to correct and 300 or so go uncorrected.

The Tuner BER(avg) which is 0 on every other working channel fluctuates and is usually something like 2.05 x 10-6

All of the other channles do not have this surge of errors. So why all of these errors and why do they occur only at certain times? What is QAM and does this sound like there is interferece with the frequencies or something? 905 seemed to be fine and around 655 est the problem was terrible.

I apologize for boring everyone with this petty issue, but it make these channels completely unwatchable and drives me crazy.

Any insight into the source of these QAM errors would be much appreciated.

Currently at 8:15 - Swimsuit model is coming through perfectly.
No QAM errors in 5 minutes and a BER of 0.

Could it just be problems with specific programs by Time Warner?

This doesnt make any sense

I had problems at 8PM on UHD on Insight. My theory was weather. . .because a couple of other channels showed slight breakups. It seems when there is a major change in temperature there is a chance for pixelation.

Originally posted by hroeder
I had problems at 8PM on UHD on Insight. My theory was weather. . .because a couple of other channels showed slight breakups. It seems when there is a major change in temperature there is a chance for pixelation.

That's interesting. I've never heard that before. Why does a problem occur if say the temp goes from 40 to 10 in 12 hours time? If that's the case then you'd think that all your channels would be affected. Has that been your experience?

Sea Ray

Sounds like some condensation in the lines, somewhere. Which will have a greater impact on higher frequencies and digital cable is well north of 500Mhz. It's rather easy for a little water in the line to resonate in a narrow band of frequencies, attenuating a narrow part of the spectrum. With even higher frequencies in use, we satellite guys have fits with this sort of thing on a regular basis.

Could also be that a marginal connection, somewhere, gets worse as the copper shrinks due to the cold temperatures.

So I was thinking, I wonder how much it costs to take out a full page AD in the Sunday enquirer. I wonder how much touble I would get in if I gather some funds from others as donations and ran the following AD.

The Super Bowl will not be available in HDTV on Cincinnati's cable systems. Contact you local cable provider and complain.

Thouhts? Am I just crazy and want to cause problems?

Well, since Insight has already agreed and started broadcasting Fox on Monday, the ad would be focused solely on Time Warner.

My next question to you is "How many people still read the newspaper?"

hey doc.. just read over in the hdtv programming section that wkrc used to muilticast all the ncaa games?? anyway .. you think there is any chance we can get them to do it again?

Also, whats this I hear about you auditioning for your old job? you going back to b105?

jim

Jim..

Doubtful. The guy who used to hook up all the games during March Madness isn't with WKRC, anymore. And, given the difficulty of reprogramming the encoder, we could probably talk them into the four feeds OR HD. Can't see them reprogramming for 4 games on Wed, then HD on Thursday, then 4 on Friday and HD on Saturday (assuming only one venue gets the HD treatment, as last year). I'd just as soon they leave up the HD for all the HD games. I'll pay DirecTV for the other three feeds.

The "old job" I was referring to was at WYCD in Detroit. I was there for nearly a decade before coming here.

Well, WSTR is sending out PSIP that my TV can decode.

So now I have 64.01, WSTR, DT instead of WSTR-DT.

I anyone else getting this?

Also, I went up in the attic yesterday, messed around with the Dayton antenna and I now looking for a new UHF only antenna. This antenna was in the attic when I bought the house and it is junk, and I like junk, but not that kind of junk.

So anyone know where to get a cheap UHF antenna? Like under $50?

Yep. Getting the comma and a guide, too.

Got my CM 4248 online for $42 plus shipping. Brought it to 60 with tax, but still not bad.

So anyone know where to get a cheap UHF antenna? Like under $50?

I think the 8-bay Channel Master bowtie-and-screen UHF antenna goes for slightly less than $50.

Radio Shack?

Originally posted by hroeder
Well, since Insight has already agreed and started broadcasting Fox on Monday, the ad would be focused solely on Time Warner.

My next question to you is "How many people still read the newspaper?"

Ahh who knows how many people still read the newspaper, but I bet there is a bunch. I guess I am just trying to cause something to strike a nerve with TWC and get this crap done. I mean come on, 2 year of talks and Insight can get it done in three weeks. What is up with that?

Originally posted by zekyl
I mean come on, 2 year of talks and Insight can get it done in three weeks. What is up with that? Insight doesn't require a subscription to the HD teir or the digital tier to receive local channels in HD. You just have to rent the box for $2 a month. In other words, Insight isn't making any more money from HD carriage than they are from SD carriage. If TW requires an additional fee for HD locals over SD locals, but wants the source for free, then that's the thorn in Raycom's side.

That said, you can always tell TW that you're going to DirecTV if they don't get this resolved. I think they'd hate that a whole lot more than the newspaper ad <G>.

Insight had been in negotiation for a long time as well.

Want to know something else? Outside of football there isn't much on Fox in HD. Well, I guess that's really a matter taste. . .the OC?!

Originally posted by hroeder
Outside of football there isn't much on Fox in HD. ??? Idol, 24, Bernie Mac, North Shore, House, The OC, Branson's reality show, the boxing reality show...

Just got done writing a reply to the head engineer at WSTR. He actually writes back! So far he has been working along with me to solve my problem and has always replyed to my emails.

So my question is, why can't the other station engineers reply to my questions?

Also, what email address have you all been writing to at WCPO. I have used their site, but no engineering listed. I write programming and general manager.

And Don't forget NASCAR coming up in FOX HD soon ...

Fox News Sunday is still widescreen (SD upconvert) too -, So is this season of "Cops"(The first half of first episode this season, which they had widescreen was from Norwood) ... I guess you could still call that "Fox High Resolution Widescreen", though they don't put that up on screen anymore ...

They usually(but not allways) also send any movies HD, oftentimes OAR ...

Before Fox actually started doing HD last September, in previous years(back to 2000 when XIX-DT first came on the air) all or most of that stuff was sent in Fox Widescreen("ED" for enhanced definition) as well .... Of course that included NFL last year, and Baseball playoff's/etc ...

I don't think there's much Fox doesn't send HD or Widescreen ... 70's show, "MAD"(if that's still on), Simpsons and King of the Hill are about the only ones I can think off that are still 4x3 SD ...

So I was thinking, I wonder how much it costs to take out a full page AD in the Sunday enquirer. I wonder how much touble I would get in if I gather some funds from others as donations and ran the following AD.

I refuse to even look at the Sunday Enquirer until they release it in HD.

Originally posted by hroeder
Insight had been in negotiation for a long time as well.

Want to know something else? Outside of football there isn't much on Fox in HD. Well, I guess that's really a matter taste. . .the OC?!

It said in the enquirer that it took three weeks to get the agreement with FOX and Insight cable in NKY. Did I miss something here?

WSTR-DT is now fixed! (For me at least.)

Mike,

As to what it said in the Enquirer: I contacted Insight before the football season started and the General Manager replied, indicating that Fox wasn't making their programing available to Insight. I then emailed XIX and they responded saying they'd been in negotiations for some time and hadn't been able to reach an agreement. Three weeks was probably the current negotiation.

Dr. Don, off all the shows you've listed the only one I've ever watched is 24. I've never watched a reality show and can't even imagine the ordeal of American Idol. Especially when it's on opposite Lost.

Originally posted by DrDon
Insight doesn't require a subscription to the HD teir or the digital tier to receive local channels in HD. You just have to rent the box for $2 a month. In other words, Insight isn't making any more money from HD carriage than they are from SD carriage. If TW requires an additional fee for HD locals over SD locals, but wants the source for free, then that's the thorn in Raycom's side.

That said, you can always tell TW that you're going to DirecTV if they don't get this resolved. I think they'd hate that a whole lot more than the newspaper ad <G>.

Time Warner also provides locals in HD for free. Like Insight, the only thing they charge for is equipment rental. They even throw in TNT HD and Discovery HD along with the locals at no extra charge. The "upgraded" HD tier is inHD, HDnet, and ESPN HD for around $6/month, I believe.

I myself have thought about pulling the DirecTV card on them just to try to get cheaper service. :-)

Originally posted by atomicmike
Time Warner also provides locals in HD for free. Like Insight, the only thing they charge for is equipment rental. They even throw in TNT HD and Discovery HD along with the locals at no extra charge. The "upgraded" HD tier is inHD, HDnet, and ESPN HD for around $6/month, I believe.

I myself have thought about pulling the DirecTV card on them just to try to get cheaper service. :-)

I think that depends on how you define "free". TWC only provides HD locals if you subscribe to the Digital Basic Tier. That is definitely costly than their Standard Tier. Having said that, of course there is more to the Digital Tier than just HD locals. But I can understand how Raycomm sees TWC making money from their product.

Originally posted by DrDon
Insight doesn't require a subscription to the HD teir or the digital tier to receive local channels in HD. You just have to rent the box for $2 a month. In other words, Insight isn't making any more money from HD carriage than they are from SD carriage. If TW requires an additional fee for HD locals over SD locals, but wants the source for free, then that's the thorn in Raycom's side.

That said, you can always tell TW that you're going to DirecTV if they don't get this resolved. I think they'd hate that a whole lot more than the newspaper ad <G>.

No extra fee for HD? Hmmm. What other HD channels do they offer? ESPN-HD?, INHD1 and 2? HDNET? I would think ESPN would charge them plenty. Not charging for an HD tier is nice but highly unusual as the satellite carriers all do charge as well.

Originally posted by hroeder
Insight had been in negotiation for a long time as well.


A long time? I don't know. I read two weeks while TWC has been negotiating for 2 years

Originally posted by Sea Ray
No extra fee for HD? Maybe I wasn't clear. There is no added charge for LOCAL channels in HD on Insight. WKRC-DT, WCPO-DT, WXIX-DT and WLWT-DT plus UniversalHD can be had for just the box rental. To get ESPN-HD, DiscoveryHD and the rest, you have to pay $9/mo for the HD tier. HBO and Showtime HD channels come free with a subscription to HBO or Showtime.

Originally posted by DrDon
Maybe I wasn't clear. There is no added charge for LOCAL channels in HD on Insight. WKRC-DT, WCPO-DT, WXIX-DT and WLWT-DT plus UniversalHD can be had for just the box rental. To get ESPN-HD, DiscoveryHD and the rest, you have to pay $9/mo for the HD tier. HBO and Showtime HD channels come free with a subscription to HBO or Showtime.

Well that does sound very much like TWC then. As someone mentioned earlier, TWC doesn't include local digitals in their HD tier. You pay $5 for the box and $7 for the HD tier. I don't see any significant difference that would impact WXIX negotiations

Did a little more digging. It does appears to be a compensation issue. Insight and Comcast have apparently struck similar carriage agreements for HD as they do for SD. TW wants HD included in the SD carriage deals for free. I'll modify this if I learn more, but I don't have a ton of time, today.

If they have a QAM capable receiver(common with PC tuner cards and now new sets with built in ATSC/QAM receivers - some OTA STB's do QAM as well), Any Cable subscriber should be able to receive the "HD Locals"(DTV signals) at no extra charge. There is a Law that says the cablecos have to provide the digital TV signals they are carrying from local stations "In the Clear" to their lowest priced subscription/tier/etc. I doubt that you'll see the cableco advertising this, however .... IF you don't have the QAM capable receiver of course, you'd have to rent the box from them.

It might be a little more cloudy if it ever comes to be the case that HD from local stations is offered by the station as a "premium" service.

I posted the specifics, including direct quotes from the rules(and links to the rules) on this in a post a couple months back in Dayton thread, here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4708217#post4708217

Lat night when watching the M/MSU game on ESPN HD (DTV) when they went to commercials the audio was not even close with the picture and the picture would flicker like it was a weak signal. Then when the game came back on it was perfect. Any thoughts? I could care less about the commercials but I would like to know why this is happening.

Any Cable subscriber should be able to receive the "HD Locals"(DTV signals) at no extra charge.

So would TW let you rent the HD box just to get the local digitals without subscribing to any of their digital tiers? When I still had TW, I only got the digital tier so I could get the HD channels. I thought all the other digital channels were worthless, though I did occasionly watch TechTV, but that's gone now anyway.

We did switch to D* about 2 months ago. Wife works for Cin. Bell and they are selling D* again. As an employee she gets $6/month discount. I was frustrated with TW's yearly price hikes. Needless to say we are saving some money now.

Picked up an open box Sony HD300. And just received an AntennasDirect DB4. Waiting for a half way warm weekend to put it up.

Rob

Originally posted by CincySaint
I think that depends on how you define "free". TWC only provides HD locals if you subscribe to the Digital Basic Tier. That is definitely costly than their Standard Tier. Having said that, of course there is more to the Digital Tier than just HD locals. But I can understand how Raycomm sees TWC making money from their product.

I think the digital tier is only like 3-4 bucks more than basic analog. It's a difference of like $46 vs. $50. That may not be exactly right but it is close. I think TW really wants to push people out of just analog, so the digital is mininally more.

This digital basic does give you 3 of the networks in HD (not FOX), 2 PBS HD's, TNT HD, and DISCOVERY HD, plus access to 3 Movies on Demand channels that do HD movies. If you are a subscriber of Showtime or HBO you get their HD channels. If you want the HD tier it is $6.95 and includes INHD, INHD2, HDNET, HDNET Movies, ESPN HD.

Someone mentioned they would like to get TW's HD locals without the Digital basic but you can't get digital channels with an analog package.

My complaint about TW is that I wish they had multiple tiers of programming like the satellite companies. I was more than happy with the $29.99 package from Dish Network. They just suck for HD content. I wish TW had a package that would get rid of half their channels and charge me $10-$15 less per month. I'm not a big fan of the all or none factor you get. I'd like to have a minimum digital package plus a nice HD package.

However, right now I'm getting everything from them really cheap because I switched over from Dish. I have this deal for 1 year. I guess I will have to make a decision next december if I will stick with them or go back to satellite. From what I've seen so far, I think I would prefer to stay but I'm not sure if I could make myself pay their regular price.

Originally posted by rleist
So would TW let you rent the HD box just to get the local digitals without subscribing to any of their digital tiers?
Rob

They don't HAVE to do that, but they could if they wanted. Per Doc's post, it sounds like that is what insight is doing. They just have to send them in the clear, they don't have to provide the equipment to receive it. If you have the necessary equipment(QAM capable receiver) then you wouldn't need to rent the box for what they send "in the clear", you would just have to subscribe to their lowest cost "basic" service.

Of course, you still wouldn't get the HD locals that TW doesn't carry which you can get OTA - Which, for TW Cincy is Cincinnati stations WSTR-DT(WB HD), and WXIX-DT(Fox HD), or that you might be able to receive from adjacent markets(such as Dayton.)

There are a couple of folks who post in Dayton thread who use their own QAM capable receivers with TW Dayton "analog" cable service, and in addition to the Dayton "HD Locals", I believe they also get a couple of other "HD things" TW Dayton sends in the clear. I don't recall seeing anyone posting here that's doing that with TW Cincy, but I think a couple of the insight people are using their own PC tuner cards in this fashion.

I suppose, however, that there is a possibility this "wouldn't work" if it's specifed as such in the terms of agreement for cable carriage between any specific station+the cableco - which is probably unlikely but who knows -- and there is one other possible "loophole" --- if the cableco in question is found to face "effective competetion" under various requirements - If a cableco makes such a claim, This would require investigation+report&order from FCC, and to my knowledge, this loophole wouldn't apply(currently at least) to TW Cincinnati or any other cableco's in the area. More info in the rules themselves, which can be found in the post on Dayton thread I provided a link to in last post.

Originally posted by mchuckp
you can't get digital channels with an analog package.


Are you sure about that? You should be able to get them(The local digital stations that TW is carrying) with a QAM capable receiver, even with the lowest cost subscription - It might have to be with a QAM capable receiver that you purchase, not that comes from TWC.

The $4~5 difference between their analog+digital plans would seem about the same as what other cableco's are doing for rental of the Box ....

Follows is a section of paragraph #102 from FCC "DTV cable carriage report and order", which specifically addresses the issue (references to footnotes removed). I've bolded the most relavant part here -- note that just because it must be "available" doesn't mean they have to provide the equipment(for free) to receive it - a $4-5 per month "extra" charge for rental seems reasonable for that I suppose.

begin quote:

102. In the context of analog must carry, it has been the Commission’s view that the Act contemplates there be one basic service tier. We believe that in the context of the new digital carriage requirements, it is consistent with the statutory language to require that a broadcaster's digital signal must be available on a basic tier such that all broadcast signals are available to all cable subscribers at the lowest priced tier of service , as Congress envisioned. The basic service tier, including any broadcast signals carried, will continue to be under the jurisdiction of the local franchising authority, and as such, will be rate regulated if the local franchising authority has been certified under Section 623 of the Act. We note, however, that if a cable system faces effective competition under one of the four statutory tests, and is deregulated pursuant to a Commission order, the cable operator is free to place a broadcaster's digital signal on upper tiers of service or on a separate digital service tier. This finding is based upon the belief that Section 623(b)(7) is one of those rate regulation
requirements that sunsets once competition is present in a given franchise area. We believe that the decision in Time Warner
v. FCC supports this interpretation.

Here is the full FCC report and order for DTV cable carriage, in PDF format:

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/2001/fcc01022.pdf


In word Doc format:

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/2001/fcc01022.doc


See section E. "Tiers and rates" in the Report and order for more info.

Last night when watching HD programming, only a couple of stations were in Dolby 5.1 for me. I believe they were the HD NET stations. All the locals and Discovery HD etc. were showing as Dolby ProLogic II on my home theater amp. I checked all my settings and nothing has changed. Any ideas. I did a rescan of the local channels and that didn't help. Should I reboot?

dusterscott,

I expect you don't need to "reboot". Not all the local stations are capable of sending DD 5.1. For who does in Cincinnati, see first post of this thread - -- The "list of stations" thread also shows which stations send DD 5.1, The info on Cincinnati+Dayton stations is accurate.

However, note that WB is not currently sending DD 5.1 for Technical reasons. Also note that from the stations that do have DD 5.1 capability, they only send DD 5.1 when the programming is actually sent to them in DD 5.1 from the Network, which usually means the program is actually produced with DD 5.1 audio.

Originally posted by GadgetJunkies
Lat night when watching the M/MSU game on ESPN HD (DTV) when they went to commercials the audio was not even close with the picture and the picture would flicker like it was a weak signal. Then when the game came back on it was perfect. Any thoughts? I could care less about the commercials but I would like to know why this is happening. This sounds "normal" to me:rolleyes: You might want to check the Samsung TS360 720P bug thread in the HDTV Hardware section.

Just a little info on a few "accepted abbreviations" which are used on AVSforum, to hopefully help eliminate any possible confusion anyone might have :

DTV = Digital Television - usually referring to Over the air(OTA) digital TV, 720p and 1080i are DTV resolutions used which are HD. There are also several SD(standard definition) resolutions that are/can be used.

D*(not DTV) = DirecTV

E*(for echostar) = Dish network

Originally posted by barhoram
I am having the same problems with WCPO and my HD-Tivo as well. I first noticed issues with Monday Night Football (breakups, droupouts, etc)and thought my Tivo was failing. I kept an eye on other channels for the problem, but didn't notice this on any of the other satellite or local channels. Now that I have been recording Lost, I am getting the same problems. OTA strength (from West Chester) shows in the 90's on the HD-Tivo. Must be a problem specific to WCPO. I hope we can get them to fix whatever this is.


I just called DirecTV. They're going to send out a new HD-Tivo to me next week. If WCPO still has dropouts, then they will open up a problem ticket and contact WCPO directly to figure out the problem. The strange issue here is that the ATSC tuner in my TV is rock solid with WCPO. Logic says it's the ATSC tuner in the HD - Tivo from Hughes.

btw - I was very surprised to find out that the $1K HD-Tivo box only has a 90 day warranty. The good news is that if DirecTV sends you a replacement, the warranty clock is reset to the day you install that new receiver.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Are you sure about that? You should be able to get them(The local digital stations that TW is carrying) with a QAM capable receiver, even with the lowest cost subscription - It might have to be with a QAM capable receiver that you purchase, not that comes from TWC.

The $4~5 difference between their analog+digital plans would seem about the same as what other cableco's are doing for rental of the Box ....


In order to get the digital package you must rent a digital box ($7.62) and then they charge you for the "digital variety tier" ($5.95) plus $0.66/mo for the remote control. :( As we stated earlier the HD tier is $6.95.

So, first of all I don't know where you'd find a box that would properly unscramble TWC's digital stations. I imagine they'd make that tough so they can charge you for monthly rental on their box and remote. But secondly, I would think they'd also continue to charge you for the digital tier as well. Whether there are any digital charges immersed in my Digipic 1000 ($50.00) tier I don't know.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
In order to get the digital package you must rent a digital box ($7.62) and then they charge you for the "digital variety tier" ($5.95) plus $0.66/mo for the remote control. :( As we stated earlier the HD tier is $6.95.

So, first of all I don't know where you'd find a box that would properly unscramble TWC's digital stations. I imagine they'd make that tough so they can charge you for monthly rental on their box and remote. But secondly, I would think they'd also continue to charge you for the digital tier as well. Whether there are any digital charges immersed in my Digipic 1000 ($50.00) tier I don't know.

Sigh. Let me try this AGAIN. TW is not likely to be allowed to "scramble" the local digital stations(from the broadcasters) they are carrying. THEY MUST be sent in the clear. The SIGNALS must be "available" -- in the clear -- via their lowest cost "basic" subscription, including "analog cable" subscriptions. Obviously, if you don't have the proper equipment to decode those stations(which TW can charge more for, or require you to subscribe to a "digital tier"/etc), then you can't "see" the signals.

But, again you should be able to decode these stations with widely available PC tuner cards that do QAM via cable, some of the newer sets(more in the future) with built in OTA digital tuners also do QAM via cable that will decode these "in the clear" stations, and even Some OTA STB's with QAM via cable capability will decode those. I'm sure however that TW/TW's CSR's/etc aren't going to be "widely publicizing" this .....

The channel #'s probably aren't going to be the same via, say a built in ATSC+QAM receiver, and may even be a little "difficult" to find, but they should be there. If not, you can contact the cableco and let them know about the FCC rules about this, and if that didn't work you can contact FCC about it .... If the cableco in question has been "deregulated" via FCC requirements, then they could "get around" this rule, otherwise you should be able to get the "HD locals" via TW Cable with your QAM tuner and their lowest cost "basic" subscription. I haven't heard of anyone having any problems around here, but I have heard of folks elsewhere who have run into some "problems" with the cableco on this ...

Having not heard any reports that I can recall from folks using TW Cincy and a basic, analog subscription +their own QAM capable tuners, I can't tell you for sure it will "work" with TW Cincy, but it should, and I can tell you it works for TW Dayton/TW Western Ohio+ the "HD Locals"(a couple of other things too)....

See 1450khz+s1059197's posts in Dayton thread to see how it works for them with their PC tuner card(1450KHZ), and S1059197's new set with built in OTA ATSC+QAM tuner via TW Dayton ....

Gruber,

Let me know how that turns out. Maybe Directv will put some pressure on WCPO since we obviously have no pull.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
In order to get the digital package you must rent a digital box ($7.62) and then they charge you for the "digital variety tier" ($5.95) plus $0.66/mo for the remote control. :( As we stated earlier the HD tier is $6.95.

So, first of all I don't know where you'd find a box that would properly unscramble TWC's digital stations. I imagine they'd make that tough so they can charge you for monthly rental on their box and remote. But secondly, I would think they'd also continue to charge you for the digital tier as well. Whether there are any digital charges immersed in my Digipic 1000 ($50.00) tier I don't know.

Why would you have to pay $5.95 for the "digital variety tier" and what does that have to do with getting any HD signals?

I think the "digital variety tier" is like Discovery Home & Leisure, Science Channel, etc. and I think it is only like 2-3 bucks.

Last year Super Bowl party was at my brother-in-law's house. He only has TW basic cable. I took my HD box along with me just to see if we would be able to pull in the local digital stations and it worked and we were able to watch the Super Bowl in HD. So I think if you didn't want to spend the extra $4-$5 bucks for the digital tier you could just stop by the TWC store in Tri-County mall and pick up a HD box. If that doesn't work, I could even rent another HD box and sub-lease it to him.

Heck, I'd get an open box OTA receiver from HHGregg ($150) and a pair of rabbit ears ($5) and be done with it. Or buy me a 12-pack and a pizza and you can borrow my spare <G>.

I got about 10 different HD channels with QAM from TWC, so they do not scamble them. On the other note, when you get Basic package they install the filter on your line. I am not sure how that filter would work with HD channels ??? My insticts would tell me that it would block HD stuff, but am sure somebody out there knows for sure. :)

Doc,

Sometimes I wish some of the stations would take you up on that offer ;)

Dimitiriz,

It depends on the filter/what it is for .. I don't know how TW is setup, but sometimes cablecos use a high pass filter to prevent interference from your cable modem from effecting your TV, or for other interference related issues, or to block certian channels that aren't on your "tier". -- such as premimum channels, although nowadays those will likely be encrypted instead of blocked with a filter.

But, By law(unless TW Cincy has been "exempted" via deregulation if they were able to prove to FCC that they face "effective competition" per their rules for that), they shouldn't be blocking from "basic cable" subs HD/DTV "signals" from the locals they are carrying .... If they are, you should be able to call them, tell them what you want to do with your receiver which does QAM via cable and they *should* come out and remove it/fix it so you CAN get those "in the clear" HD stations ...

Originally posted by ktarkington
Gruber,

Let me know how that turns out. Maybe Directv will put some pressure on WCPO since we obviously have no pull.


Will post progress here, but I won't be able to install the new HD-Tivo from D* till next Friday, so expect something next weekend.

gruber

I noticed today that WCPO-DT is now sending out program info instead of "DTV PROGRAM". It still has "WEATHER TRACKER" and hopefully I can get a reply from CE about the "jaggies problem".

I also found out why I get some dropouts from WSTR-DT, they only send out 1kW. Whats up with that?

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Sigh. Let me try this AGAIN. TW is not likely to be allowed to "scramble" the local digital stations(from the broadcasters) they are carrying. THEY MUST be sent in the clear. The SIGNALS must be "available" -- in the clear -- via their lowest cost "basic" subscription, including "analog cable" subscriptions. Obviously, if you don't have the proper equipment to decode those stations(which TW can charge more for, or require you to subscribe to a "digital tier"/etc), then you can't "see" the signals.

But, again you should be able to decode these stations with widely available PC tuner cards that do QAM via cable, some of the newer sets(more in the future) with built in OTA digital tuners also do QAM via cable that will decode these "in the clear" stations, and even Some OTA STB's with QAM via cable capability will decode those. I'm sure however that TW/TW's CSR's/etc aren't going to be "widely publicizing" this .....

The channel #'s probably aren't going to be the same via, say a built in ATSC+QAM receiver, and may even be a little "difficult" to find, but they should be there. If not, you can contact the cableco and let them know about the FCC rules about this, and if that didn't work you can contact FCC about it .... If the cableco in question has been "deregulated" via FCC requirements, then they could "get around" this rule, otherwise you should be able to get the "HD locals" via TW Cable with your QAM tuner and their lowest cost "basic" subscription. I haven't heard of anyone having any problems around here, but I have heard of folks elsewhere who have run into some "problems" with the cableco on this ...

Having not heard any reports that I can recall from folks using TW Cincy and a basic, analog subscription +their own QAM capable tuners, I can't tell you for sure it will "work" with TW Cincy, but it should, and I can tell you it works for TW Dayton/TW Western Ohio+ the "HD Locals"(a couple of other things too)....

See 1450khz+s1059197's posts in Dayton thread to see how it works for them with their PC tuner card(1450KHZ), and S1059197's new set with built in OTA ATSC+QAM tuner via TW Dayton ....

All "sighs" aside, I was merely describing how TW bills out HD to their customers. I was not making any conclusions as to whether it would be possible to get them another way.

It is my understanding that you have to have all the digital stuff in their package because they don't have a box that only gives you HD. Their HD box inherently gives you all their other digital channels too so they bill you for that digital tier as well.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
All "sighs" aside, I was merely describing how TW bills out HD to their customers.

Sorry. While I agree you did have some comments that describes "how TW Bills out HD to their customers", I go back and read your post again in response to the quote from my previous post which you provided in your post, and it certianly still seems to me you were reinforcing(and still are) the idea that one could get the HD locals from TW only with a TW HD box, and with subscription to their Digital tier, after I had just described(more than once) how it should be possible to receive the HD locals(and anything else "digital" they send "in the clear") via TW with a QAM capable receiver and the most "basic" of analog cable subscriptions.

To recap part of your post you said :

Originally posted by Sea Ray

So, first of all I don't know where you'd find a box that would properly unscramble TWC's digital stations. I imagine they'd make that tough so they can charge you for monthly rental on their box and remote. But secondly, I would think they'd also continue to charge you for the digital tier as well. Whether there are any digital charges immersed in my Digipic 1000 ($50.00) tier I don't know.


:end quote

So, in response to this for a 2nd(or was it third time?) In addition to providing the information on the FCC rules which require the Cableco to pass the signals from digital broadcast stations "in the clear"(not "scrambled"), even to the "basic" analog cable subscribers, I also addressed your comment above by explaining How you can use widely available equipment(not equipment that comes from TW) to "properly decode"(they don't need to be "unscrambled") the HD locals which should be sent "in the clear" by TW so even someone with Analog basic cable can receive them with the right equipment.

Soon, there are going to be many folks with sets with built in "digital cable ready" tuners in them which will do this as well(even with basic cable subscription), many of these sets will also likely have "cablecard" capability which will also allow conditional access to premium services. The digital cable ready sets will also have OTA digital(HD) receivers in them as per FCC ATSC tuner mandate.

Now ... That's how the rules stand NOW ... as for the future, as allways -- "specifications subject to change without notice" ... I'm sure the cableco's don't like this "rule" ... and to be fair, I'm not sure it's a "fair" rule for them(or more specifically to subscribers who have to pay for it who could care less about HD) if they're having to pay stations "per subscriber fees" as part of their retransmission agreements in order to carry that station's HD while being required to send HD that's broadcast Free to air "in the clear" to all it's subscribers(whether or not they actually have the necessary equipment to decode it) ..... If nothing else, that should give you a bit of an idea why the "deals" between stations+the cableco's for retransmission rights can be so complicated to work out ....

In any event, I don't know why we are arguing about this, other than because TW's CSR's/etc neglect to inform their customers about it. I had much the same problem on the Dayton thread when I posted the info. I don't really care about it, personally as I don't even USE cable. I posted the information in case it would be useful to anyone(I'd think it should be since the CSR's at the cableco/etc. don't seem to be telling people about it it most cases, if they even KNOW about it), and I certianly have better things to do than to argue about it --- but, I'm also not going to just "let it go" if someone contridicts, or continues to contridict the accurate information on the issue, which I provided from reliable sources, as obviously, it may increase the confusion of some folks who might find the accurate information on this issue useful ... Well, I don't know how "reliable" FCC is these days, but that is their rule as they were directed by congress to implement ...

Originally posted by DrDon

It's not particularly uncommon. WKRC also has no direct monitor. There's a screen on the router, but it shows what's going out TO the transmitter. It doesn't display off-air. It's also really tiny. On the order of 4X3 inches. The only off-air DTV monitor is in the lobby.

Doc

Doc,

Here is a update for everyone. WKRC has a OTA HD monitor in Master Control as well as the small monitor from Network. There is also a OTA HD monitor in the tape room. Engineering has a TW HD monitor and there is a OTA HD monitor in the Lobby. So we have alot of places to get eyes on the output.

Weasel

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
I also found out why I get some dropouts from WSTR-DT, they only send out 1kW. Whats up with that?

Update: Oh -- You know what? If one of the folks at the station told you 1KW, they are probably talking about the TPO.(Transmitter power output). TPO is different than ERP(effective radiated power) that comes out of their antenna, as ERP(which is the "important" part as far as the RF signal travelling through the airwaves goes) also adds the gain of the transmitting antenna and the transmission line loss. I don't have the specs on their antenna's gain, but with the antenna pattern shown on FCC site for their STA, 1KW TPO sounds about right, as it's probably fairly high gain for a transmitting antenna - the more directivity an antenna has, generally speaking the more "gain" it can have.

Unless they've increased power recently -- In some directions(SE mainly), due to their directional antenna pattern it's even less than 1KW ERP they are "squirting out", but in most directions it's much closer to the 17.1 KW ERP(max ERP anyone is getting from their antenna) STA they are currently using. Which seems to be getting out quite well from what I can tell up here from North of Middletown (no problems/no dropouts here -- 100% on the "signal quality" meter from WSTR-DT), although I can't quite get a lock on it with a indoor antenna(but almost). Some folks a bit north of me in Dayton are getting it fine as well, but it doesn't seem to get into Dayton as well as the higher power Cincinnati digitals.

Info on WSTR facilities can be found here - I believe they are currently using the facilities listed under the "Channel 33 digital" STA(DS) entry.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=WSTR&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=0&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

You can figure the actual ERP(effective radiated power) being sent in your direction from with the following formula:

ERP for 1.000 relative field value shown on FCC site(in this case 17.1KW ERP) multiplied by the relative field value shown for your direction SQUARED - For WSTR-DT there is no "pattern rotation" shown, but with some stations you have to take the pattern rotation figure into account.

So I show the "center" of west chester at about a 34 degree true bearing(not adjusted for magnetic deviation) from WSTR tower ---, FCC site shows a .684 relative field value for 30 degree bearing from their tower for their antenna's pattern. So, The power they are sending in your direction would(roughly) be:

17,100(watts) * (.684x.684) = 8000 Watts = 8KW ERP.

8KW ERP should be plenty enough for an outdoor antenna from 10 miles(West chester is about 10 miles from WSTR tower), but definitely understandable why you might have some dropouts with an indoor antenna, as you are probably attenuating the signal by about 15~20db just by having the antenna indoors.

Power can certianly be more of an issue for indoor receiving antennas or when other signal obstructaion(terrain, large buildings) issues are a problem, although overall, (unless we are talking about REALLY low power such as what WSTR is sending towards the SE), the transmitting antenna height is often much more of an issue within the coverage area. And, WSTR-DT's antenna is up nice and high on their tower ....

In any event, their Full power construction permit is for 500KW ERP(which you can also see at FCC info at link above), and, with FCC issuing full power "deadlines" for stations recently(if they don't do it, they can lose the service area they aren't serving to other stations), it probably shouldn't be that long until they increase power.

Originally posted by tbenson81


When the problem occurs and I log into the diagnostic screen on my Pace 550 box,

How exactly does one get into the Pace 550 Diagnostic screen?

Weasel

Originally posted by Nitewatchman


In any event, I don't know why we are arguing about this, other than because TW's CSR's/etc neglect to inform their customers about it. I had much the same problem on the Dayton thread when I posted the info

Who's arguing? You posted the info you know and I posted what I know. Let it go and let's enjoy HD television!

Sounds good to me. That's part of what we're here for.

update/edit : oh -- BTW -- In case anyone tried to use them, I'd forgotten about the way the forum software truncuates URL's(having copied the link directly from another post in another thread), so I went back and fixed the links in following post which were broken to the FCC documents for their DTV cable carriage report+order rules - they should work now :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5077416#post5077416

WHweasel,

Doc's right -- HD looks excellent from WKRC-DT :-)

Update #2:

PSIP update:

Woohoo! Don't know for how long, but WKRC-DT is now working fine with DTC-100 with PSIP stuff turned on .... EPG OTA info +All ...

I noticed the guide info for WCPO-DT 9-1 for first time as JY Dogg mentioned as well.

On WSTR-DT, just before I turned the PSIP on and rescanned, I noticed that with PSIP off, it was now showing up as 33-3 instead of 33-1 or 33-2, probably a result of the work on their PSIP tables JY dogg mentioned. It's allways remapped fine to 64-1 on both receivers here, and First noticed the guide info from them a little over a week ago.

I did notice I'm not currently getting EPG info via PSIP from several stations(WLWT, WPTO and WPTD Dayton) which were sending it the last time I looked. Since everything else seems to be working OK PSIP wise from all the Cincinnati/Dayton stations(well, except WKEF/WRGT which still isn't sending even channel remapping info, and there are still a few other Dayton stations apparently not sending EPG), I assume those 3 are just not sending it currently.

For the first time in 3 and a half years though -- I can finally leave the PSIP stuff turned on(hopefully permanently) on DTC-100 without some station sending data that locks it up, or the STT info being incorrect from one station or another/etc messing up the EPG from other stations/etc/etc .... <jinx alert>I'd say that's Progress!

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
I did notice I'm not currently getting EPG info via PSIP from several stations(WLWT, WPTO and WPTD Dayton) which were sending it the last time I looked. Concur with WPTO and WPDT. I don't recall them having EPG all week. But my EPG via PSIP from WLWT-DT looks fine.

Nitewatchman:

The problem I have with WSTR-DT is that I get a second of missing audio about every 5-10 minutes. The picture doesn't freeze, just missing a small part of the audio. I have a large Channel Master, comparable to the Crossfire model(100 miles VHF, 60 miles UHF) and Channel Master 7776 preamp that I used on my 50' tower back in Iowa. I get everything else in very well, even with it in the attic. I did think about putting it outside, but then I remember that it is around 12-13' long and a pain in the butt to put up in the air.

So far I have PSIP from: WLWT-DT, WCPO-DT, WKRC-DT(No Program info), WPTO-DT(No program info as of yesterday), WPTD-DT(Same as WPTO), WCET-DT, WCVN-DT, WSTR-DT, WKEF-DT(No program info), and sometimes get WHIO-DT(No program info)

Stations with no PSIP: WXIX-DT(29.03), WRGT-DT(30.01), WDTN-DT(50.03, 50.04)

I still haven't got anything back from WCPO or WXIX. Neither of their websites have a direct link to engineering BTW.

Doc,

Yeah, just checked WLWT-DT again and I'm getting EPG fine from them. Probably operator error -- I.e. going too "fast" as DTC-100 is just sloowwww and clunky at refreshing the EPG info from PSIP EIT's.

It is my understanding that you have to have all the digital stuff in their package because they don't have a box that only gives you HD. Their HD box inherently gives you all their other digital channels too so they bill you for that digital tier as well.

When we connected my HD box to the tv with just basic cable, we were not able to get any digital stations except for the local digital stations.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Sorry. While I agree you did have some comments that describes "how TW Bills out HD to their customers", I go back and read your post again in response to the quote from my previous post which you provided in your post, and it certianly still seems to me you were reinforcing(and still are) the idea that one could get the HD locals from TW only with a TW HD box, and with subscription to their Digital tier, after I had just described(more than once) how it should be possible to receive the HD locals(and anything else "digital" they send "in the clear") via TW with a QAM capable receiver and the most "basic" of analog cable subscriptions.


Any QAM receiver should be able to get the HD locals from Time Warner Cable. I have one of the 5C/DTCP/"broadcast flag"-capable SA3250HD boxes, and all of the HD locals are being broadcast as "Copy Freely" with no encryption, so there shouldn't be any problem receiving them. They don't seem to be sending a whole lot else out there unencrypted, save a few of the PPV barkers.

Time Warner *should* be willing to rent you an HD box without having any digital service. They charge a box rental fee on top of digital anyway, and they can always just remove authorization from the box to receive anything but analog and free HD signals. In fact, it would really be in their interest, since it would also allow more people to order PPV movies without subscribing to full digital cable. Whether or not you can find a CSR who is willing to do it is a different story.

I also believe that there are FCC rules regarding the competitive availability of cable reception equipment, which say that you are allowed to buy your own equipment and have the cable company authorize it so that you are not locked into monthly rental fees. I have never been able to verify this, but I've also never spent much time researching it, either.

Well this is great to know, thanks for sharing it.

It's timely because I was just about to pull the trigger Monday on a MyHD 120 which is OTA only. Although D*/OTA is my primary since Insight is my ISP they give me $10 off if I get cable from them. Since I have to pay the $10 anyway I just add $1.50 and get basic cable (#1-29) which is a great cheap extra feed for an elder Tivo and the occasional D* rain fade.

Why this is cool is that MyHD is about to release a new card (130) that is OTA and QAM. Since D* owns me as long as they have NFL Ticket I figured I'd never get Insight HD and had no need for QAM. Now I know differently. I'm on high ground but I have to shoot through some huge trees and so I'm not sure how my OTA will be once leaves return.

So thanks once again to you and the other smart folks (like Doctor Detroit) for the mini-lessons. This learning made a real timely difference.

peace . . .



Originally posted by Nitewatchman
If they have a QAM capable receiver(common with PC tuner cards and now new sets with built in ATSC/QAM receivers - some OTA STB's do QAM as well), Any Cable subscriber should be able to receive the "HD Locals"(DTV signals) at no extra charge. There is a Law that says the cablecos have to provide the digital TV signals they are carrying from local stations "In the Clear" to their lowest priced subscription/tier/etc. I doubt that you'll see the cableco advertising this, however .... IF you don't have the QAM capable receiver of course, you'd have to rent the box from them.

It might be a little more cloudy if it ever comes to be the case that HD from local stations is offered by the station as a "premium" service.

I posted the specifics, including direct quotes from the rules(and links to the rules) on this in a post a couple months back in Dayton thread, here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4708217#post4708217

For those that have two antennas...one pointed to the Cincinnati stations, one north for the Dayton stations...are you sending two cables down to the ANT 1 and ANT 2 inputs?

Or is it possible to connect the two antennas, and use one cable down from the roof/attic?

peteranton

It's POSSIBLE to combine them, but you could end up with interference or multipath that wrecks one or more channels. You'll just have to try. There are traps and filters you can use to solve some of the combining issues, but the second cable run is far cheaper.

Originally posted by peteranton
For those that have two antennas...one pointed to the Cincinnati stations, one north for the Dayton stations...are you sending two cables down to the ANT 1 and ANT 2 inputs?

Or is it possible to connect the two antennas, and use one cable down from the roof/attic?

I think the ANT 1, ANT 2 idea is your best solution

How do I determine that I do or do not need an antenna..

I currently have not upgraded to the HD box and I have Direct tv..
In order to get local channels in HD, when I upgrade my box of course what will I need ?

best thing to do is head over to antennaweb.org and punch in your address.. that will give you a distance from the towers and the "strength" of an antenna you need.. them come back in and post the results.. since you are in Kentucky.. DrDon is the best damn resource our there.. he will give you his opinions and they are usually dead on

jim

Hold down the select and guide button for 5 seconds. You will hear a beep and the box will say diag

tune to the station you want to monitor and then tune to channel 611. You can check all the stats

Originally posted by peteranton
For those that have two antennas...one pointed to the Cincinnati stations, one north for the Dayton stations...are you sending two cables down to the ANT 1 and ANT 2 inputs?

Or is it possible to connect the two antennas, and use one cable down from the roof/attic?

I use seperate Dayton/Cincinnati antennas on seperate feedlines. You can also use a A/B switch before the receiver(or other devices) if you don't have seperate inputs.

Combining antennas aimed in different directions together onto same feedline generally doesn't work very well(unless one is for VHF and one is for UHF with an appropriate VHF/UHF combiner used), unless you just get very lucky because the antennas will be out of phase -- for instance, you'll get signals from the Cincinnati stations coming in off the side of the Dayton antenna as well as via the Cincinnati antenna, and the signal will arrive at the dayton antenna at a slightly different time(or on a different path), increasing multipath(ghosting on analogs).

But, as Doc said, if you are very lucky it might work. You'd just have to try it+do some "experimenting" to see if it works "well enough". I'd think Chances that it won't delitirously effect reception for all the Dayton or Cincinnati stations in some fashion are very low, however. You might put it up+it might seem to work OK at first, but then a plane will fly over, or the wind will start blowing tree limbs around/etc. and dynamic multipath conditions will change and your receiver may not be able to compensate.

Using channel traps or "join-tennas" to block certian channels from coming from one antenna or the other as Doc also mentioned can work, but, given that the stations are spread all over the dial and there are quite a number of them, It would probably be awfully difficult to implement especially if you want good digital and analog reception, currently. And, you would probably have to change it again after analog shut off, when stations move all over the dial as well. That generally works best if you only have one or 2 stations that are in a different direction, where you would use 1 antenna for those 2 stations, only allowing signals from the 2 desired channels to pass to that antenna, and "block" those channels from being received off the other antenna. CM Jointenna's made for each of those particular 2 channels that are in different directions would be ideal for this circumstance.

I can't remember who made them, but back in the 70's they used to make a set of two antennas called "Cincinnati-Dayton" speicals. The antennas themselves were designed specifically so you aimed one at Cincy, one at Dayton(you put them about 6' apart on the mast+attached them together with some 300ohm twinlead) -- it worked pretty well. This was possible because the elements on each antenna were specifcally "cut" for the frequencies the Dayton/Cincy stations were operating on. But, When more stations came on the air, or when stations move around the dial, they don't work as well for those "new" channels, but even now you'll still see those on some rooftops, and I'm sure if all the connections are still good/etc, they are probably still working quite well for reception of Cincinnati/Dayton analog stations on channels 2,5,7,9,12,16,19,22,48.

They have put together a "smart antenna interface", that in the future(hopefully in a inexpensively available fashion) will allow "equipped" receivers hooked up to a "smart antenna" to actually control, and adjust the antenna itself for best reception of any given digital station. I sort of doubt however that those sorts of antennas will work as well in weak/fringe signal areas as a "conventional" directional, Hi-gain antenna, but, I'd think it should work nicely in many other circumstances.

In any event -- You might want to try just one antenna first and rotate it(by hand) and check to see what you get from Cincinnati+Dayton first, before buying the 2nd antenna .... That's probably a good idea in any case, but, depending upon your exact location, you may run into terrain issues from North Bend which may make reception of Dayton stations(UHF especially) quite difficult, so you might want to try and see what you get from Dayton before putting up a "dedicated" Dayton antenna. Also, a good mast mount preamp might be a good idea for you for Dayton, but not so good of an idea for Cincinnati because of potential overload issues, as the Cincinnati signals are probably going to be quite strong.

Anyhow -- Hopefully, you are on a hill -- But attached is a elevation profile from Intersection of Harrision Ave+Miami Ave in North Bend(at left), and the Dayton antenna farm(at right). As you can see, from this particular spot, reception of Dayton stations may be difficult due to nearby terrain in the signal path+the distance involved. You never know though, it might work out better from this particular spot than one would think, the only way to know would be to try it, although I would especially expect reception of the Dayton digitals on the higher UHF channels to be difficult from this particular spot :

Thanks, Jeff. I was trying to avoid running a second coax down from the attic. I do have a second antenna that was in the attic when I bought the place 15 years ago. I "upgraded" to a RS 141" when I HDed in 1999.....so buying a second one was not a problem. I guess I'll wait till Spring to run the second one.

Darn DirecTV is not working because of the snow right now. There was a NASCAR GN Race on HD I wanted to finally see! It always happens that way..........

I'm getting buku dropped frames from WCPO-DT tonight on Zenith HDV420 receiver between 8-8:25pm(audio is fine, signal is fine) tonight, the short time I checked it on DTC-100 it was fine. It did not happen when they switched to SD feed during commercial break(with school closings/etc).

I've seen the same thing during certian(but not all), non Fox programming on WRGT-DT, Fox Dayton ever since they started doing 720p last spring/summer, and on occasion during ABC HD from WSYX-DT Columbus.
One of the engineer's at WRGT tried making some adjustments to the encoder to try to fix it last summer, but, nothing seems to have worked ...

Hopefully, WCPO-DT is just making some adjustments, currently(if they are, it's not helping the "jaggies", which are most apparent around ABC bug currently however) ... as at around 8:11pm, it did look like they may have "rebooted" something ..

It's fine from WKEF-DT ABC HD Dayton, BTW.

Folks,

Have only had D* for a couple months. Didn't realize that snow affected reception so much. I looked at the dish, and have a little snow/ice on it. I'm only getting signal on 3 transponders on the 101 bird. Is it normally this bad during snow? I didn't notice problems during previous snow falls.

Rob

rob.. tonight was the first time I have ever had a snow issue (8 years) .. turns out the snow was freezing on the dish and reflecting the signal.. cleaned it off and no problems - weired how that has never happened before!

jim

Thanks Jim. Mine's up to high to reach with out a ladder. Seems like the only thing I'm getting off the dish are the locals.

Rob

I've got DirecTV HD in Middletown. We got freezing rain and 2 inches of snow here today and I didn't have any problems at all with DBS or OTA reception.

Same here. Very rarely is snow a problem although ice used to freeze on the horn of my old dish. Slide it off like a silver dollar. One thing I have noticed about falling snow is that the few times it has been a problem it's when the snow is real wet and heavy like today.

One interesting thing is that my H10 kept locking up (oh joy another benefit) every time I'd switch from an OTA channel to a sat one (when there was no signal on the sat). Additionally my old 7-8 year old Sony stb still got a 50 and worked throughout on the same dish.

peace . . .

Originally posted by jim tressler
rob.. tonight was the first time I have ever had a snow issue (8 years) .. turns out the snow was freezing on the dish and reflecting the signal.. cleaned it off and no problems - weired how that has never happened before!

jim

Jeff..

Don't know if it's coincidence, but I got freeze-frames from 8 - 9 on WKEF-DT. Only went to them after the drop-outs on WCPO-DT got annoying. I'm wondering if snow buildup in the dishes is affecting WCPO.

rleist..

No, it's not normally that bad. But then, I can broom my dish when it snows -- it's at eye level on the side of the house. The weather, itself, hasn't caused any signal loss or degradation. Readings are where they usually are.

I'm in a quandry with my D*, too. Yesterday I had D* out here to install a new Tivo, which involved the need for a new multiswitch (I'm up to 5 lines now). The multiswitch required the guy to rewire most eveything. One day later I'm getting I notice the same problem some of you all are reporting. I'm only receiving locals. Not only that, but I'm not getting my OTA HD signals either. So now I wonder if its the ice problem or a problem with all the re-wiring.

Doc,

I probably wasn't monitoring that closely as I was "mainly" watching a DVD ... just enough to see all the dropped frames from WCPO-DT(I was probably getting only 1/2 the frames, it was a "continuous" thing, that was still there when I checked it just after 10 as well) during the ABC HD feed on HDV420 - that wasn't happening on the RCA, and one "big" blank screen period around 8:11pm that I noticed -- Just checked WKEF-DT for a minute or so. 2 video Freezes per hour(each one usually lasting about 5 seconds or so, sometimes longer) with the audio continuing as normal is "normal" from them during HD(NBC or ABC HD) since Winter 02-03 or so ...

I only put dish 500 for E* up in September, but so far I haven't had any problems ... I thought the thing would be full of snow during that one big one we had in Dec, but when I didn't notice any problems, I went to check it anyway, just to see if it needed a "broom job", but there wasn't a flake there to be found ... Anyway, Just checked a couple of the 119/110 transponders, and I'm getting average of probably about "110" reading when they are normally all above about 119 or so(max 125). Spotbeam 8 on 110sat is at 118~121 reading, I've rarely seen it do anything besides Peg the meter. The worst I have seen it is when heavy rain here+to the S/SW was occuring, when the lowest readings I was seeing went down to about 85 for short periods.

ITzme..

Sounds like snow or ice in your dish is affecting your D* reception. But I'd start looking at the wiring if you lost your OTA HD. Snow on an antenna DOES have some effect, but unless you're in a fringe area, you ought to be able to get all the Cincy stations ok. If the installer didn't do a good job weatherproofing the outdoor connections or did the work in the rain/snow, you could have some condensation giving you fits.

Don,
This morning both of the Sat in feeds seem to be back to normal. The antenna signals are weak and/or erratic though. For ex: 35 and 33 have a decent signal strength and 31, 10 and 24 are weak or erratic, and 33 isn't even giving me a reading. I thought all my antenna signal strengths were fairly strong before this install. I probably am in the fringe area you mention (Ft. Wright) only because I'm in a slight valley.

Here's whats confusing me. Is that possibly a function of the weather or the recent install. What would the installer have done to mess up my antenna line? The multi switch he installed is an eagle aspen DTV 4x8. It doesn't appear that installer made the antenna line a function of that switch, am I correct about that? Wouldn't he just have run all the the Sat feeds through that? Also, he installed the switch outside under my junction box. He ran AC power to it, but the multi switch is fully exposed to the elements, I can see all the cable connections, and so can the weather. Is that a normal install or should that switch be insulated and encased?

Itzme..

It's a "normal" install in that it's the way it's normally done. If the installer used some sort of weatherproofing compound, then you're good. Being as how it's new, it would be a little soon for anything short of a full-fledged leak to affect it. Anything you can do to protect the thing from the elements is preferable to leaving it fully exposed.

Do you know what your B/C signal levels were before the snow? E-mail me on a clear day and we'll compare notes. If you don't see really strong signals on B tsp 25 and C tsp 12, then the dish may not be pointed very well.

How is your antenna line run? Is it a completely seperate beast? A 4X8 doesn't include a diplexer, so none of the sat runs would have OTA signals present or they'd be present at really low levels. Just looking at what you receive, you seem to be getting everything west of downtown and not the stuff that's on towers to the east (from your vantage point). Assuming everything was strong before, one of the following has happened:
1) Something is attenuating the signal from your antenna. You were probably getting more signal from WLWT-DT than WKRC-DT before. With the attenuation, WKRC-DT fell below a useable threshold while WLWT-DT did not.
2) That "something" that's attenuating your signal is ice on the antenna. Should be gone by mid-afternoon. If the signals all come back, that was it.
3) Something bumped your antenna and it's pointing a few degrees farther west than it was previously.

Don, your points 1,2, 3 are helpful. I'm now pretty sure that my antenna is a whole separate beast (an independent line), as it was before this install. I hadn't gotten signal strength readings in a long time, since all channels were coming in well for awhile. So I have nothing to compare. Your ice on the antenna explanation is sounding good, so I'll re-check things this afternoon. Rotation is not a viable explanation, as I do have a rotor and I've tried rotation to get WCPO stronger, and I just can't. Maybe I will though later today. THANKS!

I am going to buy and install a Local TV Power Antenna $52.99 Brand: RadioShack Catalog #: 15-2183, Update! I see Wal-Mart has a Phillips Mant910 for about $10 less than the RS one. Mostly this is an attempt to bring in WCPO-DT. I live in Village East Apts. in Middletown and this is the only Cincinnati Station I can't get with a pair of rabbit ears. Dayton is currently out of the question, there is just too much building in the way. Also this is about my only option for an outdoor antenna.

On to my quetion I see on the terk page for the TV42(almost the same thing I'm sure) that there are 2 included indoor diplexers, I assume this is to split the SAT/VHF,UHF signals back apart. So does my E* dish 500 not have a built in diplexer? Is it necessary for me to be sure the RS antenna has the diplexers as well? I am thinking that I will have to split the feed before running a cable to my sat receiver and TV but just wanted to check and see if anyone has any experience or input about what I'm going to try. I know this is not the best antenna in the world but it does fit my situation.

One other question i have is the antenna has 2 outputs for the dual LNB but i only need to use one of them. Should I try to find a terminator for the second output or will it even make a difference?

All the stations in Cincinnati are within 28 miles of my location and all the Dayton stations are within 18 miles but we are on the very southern most side of the apartment complex and building which really knocks out the Dayton stations.

My TV has a built in ATSC tuner, its a Hitachi 50V715.

Any thoughts or additional info would be great.Update Update

Originally posted by ItzMe
I probably am in the fringe area you mention (Ft. Wright) only because I'm in a slight valley.


Ft. Wright is not exactly "fringe" area at about 4~5 miles or less from WKRC tower to the NE, and no more than 10 miles or so to WSTR would be the most distant Cincinnati station ... It's a stone's throw(couple of miles or less) from WCVN to the SW ... ;) --- These stations have a MUCH larger coverage area than that, on the order of 55-65 miles, WCVN's is a bit less as it's tower isn't as high as the others ...

Attached is 3D topo map of the "hiller" areas near Ft wright .. If you are in, or near(to the south of them) the "shadows" of the hills, then terrain could be an issue for you for The Cincinnati/Dayton stations ... The farther to the South of the hills you are, the better .... Otherwise, something else is causing your problems, and you should be getting all the Cincinnati stations in like Gangbusters, even if you were using a indoor antenna(multipath issues are another story), or an antenna full of ice, or with even moisture ingress in the line. Bad connections or a bad balun/etc. could be a problem still, however. There shouldn't be a terrain issue anywhere in that area for WCVN, whose tower you see indicated.

The Red line at right is a portion of the signal path to WCVN from my place(39 miles farther North).

The Red line at left is for a elevation profile to WCPO that I will attach to another post.

Here is the elevation profile from KY17 just S of FT wright to WCPO tower(approximate WCPO-DT antenna height at "red Line") referenced in last post :

Originally posted by cokebear
On to my quetion I see on the terk page for the TV42(almost the same thing I'm sure) that there are 2 included indoor diplexers, I assume this is to split the SAT/VHF,UHF signals back apart. So does my E* dish 500 not have a built in diplexer?


No. Mine doesn't anyway, it sounds like I'm using the same LNB that you are as well. (DP Twin-2). The "outside" diplexer should be built into the OTA antenna itself -- this is the case with the TerkTV42 according to this:

http://www.innovationhouse.com/products/terk/tv41_42details.pdf

Or this:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/archive/index.php/t-4119.html

I'd think you only need 1 diplexer indoors to split the SAT+VHF/UHF OTA signals, the 2nd one is probably if you are using both "lines" from the dual LNB to sepearate receivers, as it does say for the Terk+MANT910 they are designed so they can work with dual LNB's ....


Originally posted by cokebear
Is it necessary for me to be sure the RS antenna has the diplexers as well? I am thinking that I will have to split the feed before running a cable to my sat receiver and TV but just wanted to check and see if anyone has any experience or input about what I'm going to try.


It does say here http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=&product%5Fid=15%2D2183&hp=search

That the "diplexer" is "built in for the RS antenna", but you probably want to make sure you get the one for indoors as well - you can't of course just use a "standard" 2 way splitter to split Sat(to sat receiver) and VHF/UHF(To TV). You'd think they give you everything they need, but who knows. Looks like the MANT910 should be the same, although hard to say for sure.

Originally posted by cokebear

One other question i have is the antenna has 2 outputs for the dual LNB but i only need to use one of them. Should I try to find a terminator for the second output or will it even make a difference?


I don't know(someone else probably does though) .. but I'd think it might not be a good idea to put a terminator on there, although then again, I can't see why it would make a difference really ... The DP dual LNB for dish 500 also has a switch, and you can use the two outputs to run coax directly to 2 seperate receivers, both of which then can "see" 110+119 sat transponders.

Note:

All that being said -- From what I've heard, for best OTA reception, You'd probably be better off running a seperate line to antenna in most cases HOWEVER I'm not sure, but these antennas you are looking at might need to be hooked up with the diplexers, if they are amplified, and use the power coming from the sat receiver like the LNB does ... Hopefully someone else here who actually uses or has used one of those dish clip on antennas can tell you more about that ..

Here is what I got from antenna web based on my address. I am not sure what it means though...
Does it mean I have to have a ota antenna, or that I can get away with just the direct tv feed for hd locals ?

Also are all the hd receievrs about the same, any recommendations ?



http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

Originally posted by trystan
Does it mean I have to have a ota antenna, or that I can get away with just the direct tv feed for hd locals ? You'll need an antenna. Cincinnati HD locals aren't available on DirecTV and probably won't be for a year or more. You can only get the HD networks from DirecTV if you're in BFE and no area around here qualifies. You might modify your profile so it's more specific than "Kentucky." We can help you much more if we know where you are (see mine at left). The link you posted is the antennaweb.org address entry page, not your specific results.

Dumb question here, and there probably is no good answer unless someone happens to live in Fairfield area near Augusta and Resor roads. Would it be pointless for me to buy a HD receiver and a inside antenna? Outside antenna is out of the question for now.

I am in Union Ky....Meant to update that.the link i posted wont actually post the results for some reason

Hi all,

I live in Lebanon, OH and like many here, am pretty irritated that TWC has not made a deal to carry FOXHD. With the Superbowl coming up, and being a hardcore Pats fan, I'm getting ready to take the plunge and get a receiver and antenna so I can get FOX ota. I went to antennaweb and it shows that I'm about evenly split between Dayton and Cincy (~25 miles). Also, my location is more of a high spot than down low.
My two questions, if anyone can help, are:

Which receiver would you recommend? and
Can I get an indoor antenna, or do I need something in the attic.

Outside is a no go due to subdivision covenants.

Thanks much for any help.

I ended up buying the Phillips Mant 910 (same as TerkTV42 and RS model) it gets a 10db boost from the sat receiver. I hooked it up running just one line in of the dual LNB. It did have 2 indoor diplexers and I am using one on the one line. Our apartment manager has a problem with me drilling holes into the building to run a seperate line. Now what I'm seeing is a good improvement over my rabbit ears however I am geting some trouble with WCPO-DT and WKRC-DT. Here is a rundown of what I'm getting versus using the rabbit ears.

2 - Heavy snow. Regular interference. Did not get anything with rabbit ears.
5 - Med snow. Regular interference. Watchable in a pinch. Much improved.
5-1 - Signal meter is consistant at 78-80 vs. max of 60 before.
7 - Heavy ghosting, med interference. Nothing with rabbit ears.
9 - Light interference. Watchable. Much better than before.
9-1,9-2 Signal is bouncing from 13-52 vs 10-23. Heavy pixilation, little audio.
12 Light interference. Light ghosting. Watchable. Some improvement.
12-1 Signal is bouncing 14-68 was able to get a solid 55-65 before.
14 Very light ghosting. No audio. Nothing before.
14-2,3,4,5,6 Signal 83-86 vs 50-60
16 Med ghosting. A solid tone(like an emergency broadcast signal).
19 Good for analog. Improved over a snowy picture.
19-1 Signal 75-81 vs 50-70.
22 Heavy ghosting. Good audio. Nothing before.
25 Med ghosting and interference, good audio. Nothing before.
26 Heavy ghosting, rolling pic, some static in audio. Nothing before.
30-1 13-29 vs avg of 10 before.
38 Little interference vs med to heavy before.
40 Heavy ghosting rolling interference. Didn't know this channel existed.
43 Good very light ghosting. Med ghosting, interference before.
45 Heavy ghosting. Almost no signal before.
48 Very light ghosting. Med ghosting, interference before.
48-2,3,4,5 71-73 vs 50-60
54 Almost no signal. Didn't know this channel existed before.
58-1 13 on signal meter vs 10 before
61 Almost no signal. There is a channel here too????
64 Very light interference vs med interference before.
64-1 78-82 vs 50-60 before.

All the before #'s and comments were with adjusting the rabbit ears. Turing them to get them maxed out. The new #'s are after toying around with it just after install to try to max out across the board.
:eek: Just tuned back to WCPO-DT and my signal has stablized at around 48-53. :confused: I'm not sure why that happened but I am VERY VERY happy with the improvement now.
:mad:Jinxed myself. The signal on WCPO is flakey. It will stablize for a few minutes and then it will start dropping out to 13-50 on the signal meterfor a few minutes then stablize again for a few minutes. This isn't helping a lot for MNF next year, I'm not sure if I will be able to watch it. Any suggestions?

I'm still happy with the improvement, at least now I don't have to get up every time I change the channel to adjust the rabbit ears. Makes the remote kinda pointless ;) .

I want to thank you all for making this forum such a great place for newbies like me to learn some of the ins and outs of DTV. The info I have gained just from reading here every day has helped me a lot.

As a side note I am getting good PSIP info from all the Cincinnati stations except for the 14-x and I have had no problems with channels remapping at all.

Well I may not be on the fringe here in Ft. Wright, but my house is way down low. Here's whats frustrating. I was getting all the digital channels until I had D* hook up my latest TV on Friday night. So I know I can get them. But as of 4:45 Sunday, they are all activating very erratic and I'm not getting a decent signal strength reading over 25-60 on any of them. Its like the antenna cable has come loose (which I checked i/e the TIVO and the wall, not up on the roof). Dons ice theory made sense, but it now 37 degrees here, and if anything its worse. I went through all this terrain and multipath stuff 3 yrs ago when I finally put the antenna and the rotor on the roof. I've been fine for years, til this past Friday when installer and ice all came at once.

Itzme.

Try disconnecting the DirecTV line from your receiver so that the only thing hooked up is the antenna. Might be that the way he rigged up introduced some interference. Shouldn't make any difference, but I've seen stranger things. Next up is following Jeff's course of action and tracing your antenna line back up to the antenna to see if the balun got some water in it or something else happened and the timing was just coincidence. I'd have to see where everything goes to know what the installer did.


JimDx

Way too many variables to be able to answer definitively. Go to antennaweb.org and see what they recommend. What *I* recommend is that you start with rabbit ears and work your way up, saving receipts in case something has to go back. As for the best box, surf the Hardware section. There are a couple dozen "best STB" threads which should give you a good starting point. Then surf for threads about the boxes you like to see what other users say. There is no perfect receiver. They ARE computers so they tend to behave like them. It's all a matter of strengths versus weaknesses.

One small tweak by pulling up the element on one end has made WKRC-DT's signal jump up to a solid 68-74. WCPO-DT seems to be a little more stable too. This was just a slight flattening of the arc, to make it shaped more like an elliptical dish. It actually seems that this has improved reception across the board.:confused: :confused: :confused:
Geting even happier with this new antenna though. Heck I might even be able to drop my locals from E* espically since they are raising the price by $3.

5:24 pm WSTR is nothing but a blue screen with audio? Can someone verify this? Nevermind just checked it again and it's fine at 6:00

Does anyone know if Titan TV is going to add the 14-x lineup? Or when?

Bubster,

Only way to know is to try it ... It looks like you'd have a good chance of it to me from that location though ... be prepared to have a little extra feedline and move the antenna around to find a "sweet spot" for good reception ... From indoors, near a window facing the towers(South in Your case) is often a good spot, wherever the top of the TV does not often end up working best(you never know though) ...

trystan,

I'd say it's worth a shot with an indoor antenna from Union. Something like the "Silver Sensor", or the RS DBT are good indoor choices for UHF(and you might have some luck with those for WCPO-DT -- ABC HD Cincinnati, which transmits on VHF 10), but "rabbit ears" for VHF would be better. You'll need a VHF/UHF combiner to hook together seperate VHF/UHF antennas. RS has one, the CM #0549 is a good one as well. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any really good combo VHF/UHF indoor antennas, but there may be some out there ....

JimDX,

FWIW, If the indoor antenna doesn't work(I'd be surprised if it didn't to some extent), there is federal law that says HOA's(nor anyone else) can't prohibit you from having outdoor antenna. Even trying to make you put it somewhere different than where you want because they don't think it "looks good" is not a reasonable restriction that is allowed under the rules. A reasonable restriction that would be allowed would be involving bone-fide safety issues, such as requiring you not to place antenna near utility lines. You can find info on the rules directly from the source here: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html -- and much discussion if you search this forum for "OTARD" or "HOA"/etc.

For all those using indoor antennas ---

As I mentioned to bubster Don't necessarily expect it to work best from the settop --- get some extra coax and find a "sweet spot" for the antenna ... Don't put it in the basement and expect it to work(you never know though), but you might be able to put it in a closet - who knows -- but chances are good near a window that faces the towers may be a good spot .... And, don't expect it to work as well as a outdoor, directional antenna would ....

cokebear,

That station on 40 is WRCX-LP (Ind/MBC) Dayton.
The station on 54 is WCVN(KET/PBS), tower near Taylor mill, KY. It's digital station is on 24 (your receiver should remap it to 54-1~6).
The station on 61 is W61DE, TBN Translator Cincinnati. It's near WSTR tower.

You can find more info on the Cincinnati stations in the first post of this thread.

WSTR-DT is fine here with WB HD for Easyview at 6:10pm. It was fine as well when I first checked it at 5:41pm after seeing your message.

All,

Just as a FYI --- Keep in mind, you can also find lots of great info in past posts on this thread, as well as in other areas/threads of AVSforum ... For me, I've found it's best to research the issue you're interested in first, and then post with comments/reports or ask questions if you can't find what you're looking for ....

jimdx - what subdivision in lebanon? a friend of mine lives in millers crossing I believe - just west of the old high (new middle) school - we installed the winegard sensar last weeken and it works great.. his subdivision is very high up.. clear as a bell to the cincinnati towers.. I also installed another sensar this afternoon at another friends house.. out near morrow (right by little miami hs) and it works ok.. I think he is on the absolute fringe for the sensar.. most signal strentghts were around 70-75% - a far cry from the 90-95% we were getting in lebanon.. dont worry about your hoa.. the worse they could do is make you get approval.. but at the end of the day , they still cant deny you!!

all.. its 8:55 and I just flipped on the tv - wxix-dt is no signal for me.. anyone else? also eventhough there is just 5 minutes left.. cold case is not hd on wkrc-dt.. anyone know why or did they just miss it?

edit.. still no wxix at 9:05, but wkrc has the movie in HD - musta been a problem with cold case

jim

9:22 XIX just came back on line

Jim T - I'm in the Countryside subdivision, which is on the other side of town, next to the YMCA. We're fairly high also so I'm thinking I should be in pretty good shape.

Thanks for all the feedback. I think I'm going to give the Samsung 451 a shot and start out with some type of set top antenna.

countryside.. very nice.. I am a member at the y, so I know exactly where you are at.. should have no problems whatsoever!

jim

Is everyone else getting WXIX-DT remapping to 19.01? Because I am not! I had it about a week ago, but since then, its back on 29.03.

About TitanTV and WPTO, that website has had it as "testing" for about 4-5 months now. Who knows when they will fix it. Best bet is to check ThinkTVs website.

WXIX-DT still remapping on both receivers here to 19.1 -- EPG fine as well.

Another thing about TitanTV ... I have the "checkhd" site which also uses them to send me daily HD programming information from the locals, but, in december or so, it stopped listing WB HD from WSTR+WBDT for some reason. I don't think the WB from them shows up on titanTV listings anymore either.

They've got a lot of other stuff "wrong" too for whatever reason(WRGT-DT as 31-2/etc). I sent them a report about everything that isn't right for the Cincy/Dayton stations back in Oct/nov or so, but never heard anything back from them, which is unusual, as they "used to" allways address issues I notified them about(within their ability to do so anyway) and they also replied to my messages ...

The listings/schedule on ThinkTV's website for WPTD/WPTO program services are excellent, IMO ... as is KET's for all their program services ...

It did seem like a long time before WPTO-DT 14.5 actually got the programming on it that it looked like they had "planned" for it(world news/etc) ... I'm using it quite often now ...

My this is an active weekend on this board. The last thing we needed was a jerk like me all upset about, yes, a loose cable :rolleyes:

I went back out to the junction box where the idiot installer was re-patching everything through the new multi-switch. The sat stuff was just fine, but I guess over the past day or so the antenna cable came loose. Many thanks to Don and Nightwatchman and all for their ideas, time, expertise and efforts to help me. The ice on the sat issue, an entirely separate issue, had me thinking unclear. I'm very embarrassed, but I guess this can be a lesson to others to first check the "simple things" that can go wrong. Thanks again you guys.

Well thats great! Now I will have to get in contact with WXIX. I have not received an email from them yet. When everyone else was having the problem getting them, I got them on 29.03, then they fixed it, 19.01 and now back to 29.03. Mitsubishi Integrated Tuner.

Anyone know if WKRC is planning on including program info at all?

Any word from WCPO at all? Has anyone ever called them and talked to the engineer?

Junk

Originally posted by ItzMe
, but I guess this can be a lesson to others to first check the "simple things" that can go wrong.

Hey -- The simplest things can be the most complicated to figure out sometimes ... Cables of course don't usually "come loose" on their own .. squirrel's chewing on them(true story) are another matter ... Don't feel bad though ... I once went 2 weeks scratching my head wondering why my FM reception had went down hill ... It of course, was because I had to make a trip into the attic to do some insulation work, and had forgotten I had disconnected a connection that went between FM receiver+outside antenna ...

JunkYard..

I'm getting a guide out of WKRC-DT just fine.
If they've changed something with WXIX-DT, it didn't affect the Samsung. Still remapping to 19-1 with full guide info.


Tressler:

The third segment of "Cold Case" was SD. They missed the switch coming back from a local break. Guess Weasel needs to go into MC and show the Fri - Sun MCO where that new monitor is <g>.

ItzMe

Glad you found it. Someday, you should stop by and see the spaghetti in MY basement so you can see what I have to go through when that happens <G>.

Doc

...it appears that WXIX-DT was off for 45 minutes last night. I hope that do not plan to do that 168 hours later.....and if they do, try to plan it during the Halftime Show.

Someday, you should stop by and see the spaghetti in MY basement so you can see what I have to go through when that happens

Yeah, I really need to find an easy way to protect and neatly hide all of my spaghetti from the elements. Half of that wiring used to be in a plastic black box up against my vinyl siding (outside and exposed), and now that box is busted off and won't even close, and now the multi switch is exposed and mounted just below it. As a short term fix I guess I'll try to tape a plastic bag around it all. I'll check Lowes for a long-term fix. Feel free to share an ideas.

Just FYI,

I posted a picture from the top of Madisonville.s tower (997ft) looking down in the Lexington thread.

So I figured out why I am getting audio/video dropouts on channel 905 (585.00 mhz) and channel 998 (675.00 mhz) and that is because my cable is evidently picking up some interference in the signal from somewhere. All the connections are fine and tight in my place and the TW tech said that he couldnt find the problem and that I will have to deal with it.
So looks as though this will go unresolved and those channels will only for a fraction of the time unless anyone has any ideas on how to fix this problem. Thanks

Got a leak somewhere. 585Mhz is WSTR-DT (33) and 675Mhz is WCET analog (48). I'll bet you see ghosts on some of your analog cable channels too. That or you're really close to the towers.

Originally posted by William Smith
Just FYI,

I posted a picture from the top of Madisonville.s tower (997ft) looking down in the Lexington thread.

I'll have to send a link to that to family(some are hams) in Madisonville/Greenville, KY ... That really is the "top" ... Very cool ... thanks William ...

Hey everyone. This is somewhat off-topic, but has been discussed in this thread prior. Just want to give everyone a heads up - If you have signed up for an HD_DVR from TWC, beware.... I had one and it didn't even last a month! Pretty much had problems straight from the get-go. The hard disk finally went belly-up in it over the weekend. Had a tech out to the house, and he said that the release has been delayed for months due to hard disk problems, and all they keep doing to move the release along is put new hard drives in them... but they keep failing.

The unit was OK when it worked, which was maybe 30% of the time... If you really want one, just be prepared for a few headaches.

Originally posted by smackman
Hey everyone. This is somewhat off-topic, but has been discussed in this thread prior. Just want to give everyone a heads up - If you have signed up for an HD_DVR from TWC, beware.... I had one and it didn't even last a month! Pretty much had problems straight from the get-go. The hard disk finally went belly-up in it over the weekend. Had a tech out to the house, and he said that the release has been delayed for months due to hard disk problems, and all they keep doing to move the release along is put new hard drives in them... but they keep failing.

The unit was OK when it worked, which was maybe 30% of the time... If you really want one, just be prepared for a few headaches.

If they'd quit messing with the SA 8000 and go ahead and move onto the 8300, maybe they can get somewhere. From all I've read on different forums is that people are very happy with the newer model and it works well.

Maybe this is the route they will take. If they ask you for feedback you should relay that to them.

Have you had the box for awhile or did you just get it? I've seen a few posts from people who said they have gotten them recently, but every time I ask they just keep saying they are still beta-testing and it will be "soon".

Is there some reason not to consider the Motorola 6208 or 6214? I've had my 6208 since last Spring and haven't had a hiccup with it. My son got a 6214, which has dual tuners. . .can't wait for Insight to release that baby here.

Do you think that things will improve in a couple of months when there is more humidity in the air and the trees are full again. I am just wondering if its just a problem that is more prevalent in the winter and I really dont want to have to deal with them running all new lines if things will get better. Do you think things will get better in the warmer months. Does that have a big affect on signal strength in the air etc. I didnt notice this problem at all until mid Decemeber.

You shouldn't have a leak at all, regardless of the weather. How close are you to the towers (In other words, where are you?) If you're not that clsoe, I'd make them run the new lines. That "you'll just have to live with it" excuse is a crock. You're paying for a service and, as long as the signal leak isn't coming from YOUR wiring, it's on them to fix it.

Just saw something cool on WCET-HD(48.01), a little HD video of Cincinnati, with the Cet logo, WCET-HD Cincinnati, in both corners. They showed it in between two shows.

Those TV towers are awesome! I got to see my local NBC put their 1888ft tower up in Walker, Iowa. Then I watched ABC put a tri-antenna holder on top of their 1960ft tower, that was amazing. How do those guys do it?

So I dont get a guide from WKRC-Dt, just channel id. Nothing from WXIX-DT, just 29.03. No response yet from WCPO or WXIX. Now I guess I will write WKRC and let them know their programming guide doesn't work for me. I just need a FOX for Sunday Night, thats all I care about right now. Then get WCPO 'jaggies' fixed, Add DD5.1. WKRC-DT add DD5.1, WLWT-DT add DD5.1. UPN-HD. Stronger WB-HD, then we could have the best market in the country!

Originally posted by hroeder
Is there some reason not to consider the Motorola 6208 or 6214? I've had my 6208 since last Spring and haven't had a hiccup with it. My son got a 6214, which has dual tuners. . .can't wait for Insight to release that baby here.

I have not researched the Motorola boxes since TWC Cincy does not use them. I have just read numerous posts of negative comments about the 8000 and numerous good posts on the 8300 by Scientific Atlanta. I just wish they would go with the 8300 or try some other name brand. Here are some complaints I've heard on the 8000.

1. hard drive is too small.
2. I read the processor is way too slow causing it to lock up a lot.
3. has a soft picture
4. No passthrough
5. Most aren't using an active DVI
6. Doesn't perform well when recording HD on one channel and watching HD on another channel (obviously this goes back to #1).

After the above post about them delaying release, looks like I may be sticking with my Pace box for a while. I figure if they call me to try out an 8000, I will give it a chance. But if it acts up too much it is going back and I will have to live without an HD DVR for awhile. I just had my 8000 SD DVR crash on me Sunday morning. Really pissed me off because I lost all the shows I missed last week and I missed the Australian Open final.

Oh well, life goes on.

Originally posted by mchuckp
If they'd quit messing with the SA 8000 and go ahead and move onto the 8300, maybe they can get somewhere. From all I've read on different forums is that people are very happy with the newer model and it works well.

Maybe this is the route they will take. If they ask you for feedback you should relay that to them.

Have you had the box for awhile or did you just get it? I've seen a few posts from people who said they have gotten them recently, but every time I ask they just keep saying they are still beta-testing and it will be "soon".

I had mine on a beta test since Jan1, 2005. The thing was pretty much screwed up since the get-go (see previous posts regarding lock ups, loss of settings, etc etc).

I asked TWC Cincinnati about the 8300 and they claim no knowledge of its existence... When I told them that there are other TWC affiliates using the boxes and that TWC Cincinnati was a year behind everyone else... I basically got silence from them :)

Originally posted by DrDon
That "you'll just have to live with it" excuse is a crock. You're paying for a service and, as long as the signal leak isn't coming from YOUR wiring, it's on them to fix it.

No doubt ...

Deja vu though ... You must have been up north at the time and missed this ;) (see my post here + tbenson's reply ) :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5014478#post5014478

Since he's in Montgomery, one wouldn't think he's saturated with RF from WCET/WSTR-DT signals ..... I suppose, one also has to remember "murphy's law" though, too and probably not best to jump to conclusions... A I know I've seen "interference"/RFI come from some odd places, but given the frequencies involved here, it does certianly seem to be sending up a red flags ...

and irregardless of what is causing the problem(even if it's the probably very unlikely chance that RFI from some appliance on the viewers end that is either getting into the line or effecting IF stage of the STB), you would think it would be in TW's interest to Fix it, or at least do a good job diagnosing the problem to provide a better answer than Tbenson seems to have gotten from them ..

Originally posted by tbenson81

So looks as though this will go unresolved and those channels will only for a fraction of the time unless anyone has any ideas on how to fix this problem.


I'm not sure you'd like what I personally would recommend to "fix" the problem ...<g> but here goes ... If they can't do any better than that, I'd get rid of'em ...

You could of course also try contacting the stations you are having problems with+letting them know that you suspect ingress is a factor, and that you suspect TW is not doing a very good job properly delivering their signals to you and that they don't seem to want to fix it, either .....

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Deja vu though ... You must have been up north at the time and missed this ;) I gotta quit opening my mouth until I've read the back posts :)

Doc,

Nah -- No problem ... 4 heads(yourself, tbenson, atomicmike+I) are usually better than one ..

I really doubt it, but given "Murphy's law" and all -- A little blabbering here since I can't figure out a good way to say it .... do you think there's a possibility that RFI from some "appliance" Tbenson has (especially a PC or Network gear, or a HT gear, TV -- maybe even the one that's hooked up to the box, or who knows what else that uses Electricity and RF(probably for some purpose I'd think) ... is getting into the cable lines or IF stage in receiver(although he's tried more than one box, you wouldn't think IF would be the same but who knows) ... and causing the issue ... I'd think it a remote possibility given the effected frequencies and "red flags" involved here, and I've personally never seen anything like that end up affecting anything above VHF in that sort of "frequency specific" fashion(and you'd think it would be much less of an issue for cable than it would be for OTA RF anyway), and again, you'd think TW would still want to try to identify+fix such an issue for one of their subs ... but what do you think?

If it wasn't frequency-specific, I might agree. The fact it's hitting two channels occupied by local broadcasters is what I come back to. Where and how they're getting into the line is anybody's guess. It has been my experience, however, that weather does play a part w/r/t ground saturation. When I've had leaks, they've always been worse when it rains. And - you'll love this - most of them came from a cut in the line several houses away. You could always tell when it rained because cable 5 (local access channel) was completely unwatchable, thanks to the leak from WLWT. Fixed, now, but I still sometimes have weird issues when it gets this wet.

Doc,

Oh-I agree with you ... I just wanted to be very, very careful before blaming the cable guy<g>

tbenson81,

Did you try to see what readings you get from your box at 675MHZ when WCET 48 goes off air every night around 12:30am(sometimes it's a little later?

They don't go down on Cable I don't think, as they feed it via fiber ... so You'll need a analog TV with OTA antenna tuned to WCET 48(a short wire should suffice, just enough so you can see when WCET goes off air) ... Look at the readings off the cable box for 675MHZ just before they go off air+just after ... If you're seeing the problem when WCET is up(assuming you're seeing it at that "time"), AND you are no longer getting the problem after they go off air, then you'll know for SURE that "cable guy" has a little work to do on their leaky lines/connections/etc ...

Thanks again guys for all your help. Everyone here is 10, no 100 times more educated about this stuff than the TW techs. Anyways, tonight I went back to testing to see if I could figure anything out.

I live in an apartment where the main line comes into the place and is split 3 ways with a splitter. TW has already swicthed the splitter out so that isnt the problem either. My tv is hooked up to Line 2 in the house. When it is hooked up to like 2, I get errors on channel 905 (585.00) and errors on 998 (675.00). To do some testing, I hooked my tv up to the main drop coming into the house and also connected it to L1 and L3. Each of these tests resulted in the same thing. There were no errors on channel 998 (675.00) but still the same amount of errors on channel 905.

Does this mean that I have a leak in my home wiring that is affecting 998 and a leak in the outside wiring that is affecting 905? This doesnt make any sense to me. I havent had problems in 9 months and now it appears that I may have 2 leaks? This just isnt making any sense and this complex is only 2 years old, so I dont know how I can have all these bad lines.

I also per your advice, unplugged all electronic equipment in the room ie surround sound, clocks, even the microwave which is in the adjacent room. All of these resulted in no improvement.

Whatever the problems are, I think I am screwed. If I have a problem with a line here as well, I dont even know how to get that fixed. Do I get the maintenace man of the complex to come fix it? I would just say screw it and go over the air but I have Road Runner and am pretty invested in TW with their DVR and all that so that really isnt an option.

Is it also possible that there is some jackass who lives close by with a police scanner or high tech computer equipment? The dude who lives below me receives packages from CDW all the time with all sorts of computer equipment, dont know if that would have this type of affect.

Anyways - I think I am at a standstill and after the tests tonight am even more confused.

I would ask that guy downstairs about what he is doing. He might be buying broadcast equipment, because he doesnt like WLWT, TWC, HDTV or TV all together. Or maybe he is upset that the US decided to use 8VSB code to transmit digital signals. Highly unlikely TWC would be at fault, they are the GODS of TV world. With monthly fees so cheap, how do they make money? I am sure it is all your fault, and that guy downstairs getting revenge.:D

Seriously, have TWC fix the problem, you are paying good money to have their service, it should work. Otherwise, look on eBay, find an OTA receiver, keep TWC 4 roadrunner and basic, use the receiver 4 HD only.

tbenson81

Dogg's onto the scent ;). It could be as simple as your downstairs neighbor having a POS TV (I've got one that uses twinlead to get the signal from the back of the set to the tuner. Talk about LEAKS). He could also have "made" his own cables by stripping the coax and just sticking the center conductor into the F connecter on the back of the set. You have no idea. The leak could be coming from anywhere in the building. And if you see ghosts on cable channels 5, 9 and 12 as well (maybe even 71), there's a leak. As Dogg says.. make 'em earn their pay.

Originally posted by tbenson81
Anyways - I think I am at a standstill and after the tests tonight am even more confused.

I'd still do the test I mentioned above with WCET on/off air(when you're hooked to "line 2") and check 998 ... Then, at least you'll have something "concrete" to tell TW if the errors go away when WCET goes down(which I'd think will probably happen)... Sounds like it would be better to check 905 if WSTR-DT were to go off air but that rarely happens ..

Originally posted by tbenson81
Is it also possible that there is some jackass who lives close by with a police scanner or high tech computer equipment?


Hey! What you talkin' about ;) ...

I can actually pick up some of the 154~158MHZ police band via my TV antenna and "cable ready" NTSC tuner via a little fine tuning(this nifty set lets you disable AFT and do "fine tuning" on the remote) on the cable channels 19~20 ... Wright patt AFB control tower comes in at a certian spot on cable channel ch 14 too ..

Anyway ... I know I'd probably be giving them all sorts of grief if cable signals were leaking into the airwaves here(luckily, the nearest cable line ends over 1/4 mile up the road and away from my house, I certianly HOPE it stays that way ... But then there's the BPL thing(which so far has created a mess where it's been implemented for us Hams on HF frequencies) and they want to use so called "unused"/open TV channels for unlicensed wireless devices) ... My goodness me, HOW are we going to figure this stuff out w/o spectrum analyzers if all their sending just looks like "noise" instead of a NTSC pic/etc ...

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
Or maybe he is upset that the US decided to use 8VSB code to transmit digital signals.


Ok, now I have to wipe the beer off the monitor that just shot out of my nose ...

Just can't quite get WCPO-DT in here very well. Watching my signal meter bounce from 13-55 is getting annoying. Right now though it is rather steady @46-51 but there is still the occasional dropout. I suppose it is really just time of day because it seems much worse during the daytime. One of the stranger things is that WKRC-DT which is in nearly the same area comes in at a very steady 67-71 on the meter. All I am using is a Phillips Mant 910( think Terk TV42) so I don't really expect the best but all the other stations in the area do very well.

As a side note I was contacted by TitanTV today asking for the call sign for the Think TV stations. I gave them those and pointed them to the website with coverage areas. Hopefully we will see them added to the Titan site soon.

2 police scanners and 7 PCs not including STB's and Tivo in just one room alone and even my dog is on a first name basis with my FedEX/UPS drivers.

I AM that jackass, heh.

Actually I'll bet you took out half the room with that one. :D

peace . . .


Originally posted by tbenson81

Is it also possible that there is some jackass who lives close by with a police scanner or high tech computer equipment? The dude who lives below me receives packages from CDW all the time with all sorts of computer equipment, dont know if that would have this type of affect.

It's Time Warner's problem. Make them fix it. You don't have to prove anything. . .you've got ghosts on cable!

As to the guy downstairs: he just has money to burn. CDW isn't exactly the best outlet, pricewise. (Amazing since they were once a "discount warehouse".)

Thanks for everyones help

Tim99 - 7 PC's in 1 room?

Hopefully it is nobody like that living near me. It doesnt make a difference if you live in your own house, but if you live in an apartment, you should at least be corteous of your neighbors and attempt to remedy any distortion you may be causing in their signals. So if you live in an apartment and are that person, you can indeed be labeled a "jackass"

gang.. for those looking for a hdtv ota tuner.. here is a good deal from cc

http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/40026

Or wait until a couple of days after the Super Bowl and hit the open-box tables <g>

PS: Noticed Fox19HD promos running on WXIX mentioning Insight cable. At the same time, Insight is running crawls on some channels mentioning the addition.

Originally posted by tbenson81
Hopefully it is nobody like that living near me. It doesnt make a difference if you live in your own house, but if you live in an apartment, you should at least be corteous of your neighbors and attempt to remedy any distortion you may be causing in their signals. So if you live in an apartment and are that person, you can indeed be labeled a "jackass"

Well, how your neighbor has his TV hooked up may be another story, but as far as police scanners/PC gear or anything else that creates RF goes ... Those devices are designed to FCC specs/rules to not create "harmful interference". If by some odd chance they do cause interference, it's not you're neighbor who is at fault, nor is it his responsibility to fix it. If he was a Ham or CB operator, and was actually using a transmitter/antenna that was causing problems, then you are correct, he should be corteous and try to help you resolve the problem.

If ANY sort of interference is leaking into the cable lines, it's the Cableco's responsibility to fix it. If their system is leaking, then that means it's going both ways, and their cable signals are leaking into the airwaves and they are causing interference themselves, and that is a no-no, because they are not the licensed users of the spectrum they are operating on "within the wire". They are using shielded cable(coax), and they are required to keep their signals within that wire, not outside of it ..

Oh, BTW, you were talking about TW swapping a splitter in an earlier post, and that if you used something besides "line 2" you no longer got the problem on 998. Keep in mind -- Splitters(probably even the one they "swapped out") don't usually have a lot of isolation between output ports. They *do* make some that are very expensive which *do* provide high isolation, however.

Originally posted by hroeder
It's Time Warner's problem. Make them fix it. You don't have to prove anything. . .you've got ghosts on cable!


I'd say there's a 99.999999%(or higher) chance that it's TW's problem, and you're right.

However, there's nothing wrong with tbenson trying to find out what's going on either, that's what I would do(such as WCET on/off air test I mentioned) within my ability to do so - not perhaps as a means to try to "prove anything", but if TW says "it's not our problem", then at least he can let them know that he knows better, and can perhaps provide some evidence ....

I can't find the link, but many months ago, there was a interesting story in one of the tech journals. Seems that a certian Plasma TV a fellow owned was putting out a "spurious" RF signal on a certian frequency which was detected by a satellite which thought it was "something else"(I don't recall what is was the sat was doing). Soon there were folks knocking on the TV owners door, and the TV had to be turned off until it could be replaced. I believe the manufacturer gave the guy a new TV.

PSIP update: follows are the basic details of what I'm getting here currently PSIP wise from the local stations with DTC-100 and HDV420(latter doesn't do EPG via PSIP). I had to do a full channel rescan on DTC-100 to update for recent change in WRGT-DT's PSIP. Date/Time info via PSIP STT seems correct for all stations, all except WKEF-DT Dayton are remapping to the analog channel # for major Channel #, as shown below in second "column"(actual channel they are transmitting on shown first).

WDTN-DT 50 : 2.1,2.2 - EPG Yes
WLWT-DT 35 : 5.1 - EPG Yes
WHIO-DT : 41: 7.1, 7.2 - EPG - Not really -- It all just says "DTV Program"
WCPO-DT 10 : 9.1, 9.2 - EPG - Yes
WKRC-DT 31 : 12.1 - EPG - Yes
WPTO-DT 28 : 14.2~14.6 - EPG - Yes
WPTD-DT 58 : 16.2~16.6 - EPG - Yes
WXIX-DT 29 :9.1 - EPG Yes
WKEF-DT 51 : 51.1 - EPG No (analog channel #22)
WBDT-DT 18 : 26.1 - EPG No
WKOI-DT 39 : Can't tell, can't get a lock currently(terrain issues mostly)
WRGT-DT 30 : 45-1 -0 EPG - Not really - It all just says "WRGT-DT"
WCET-DT 34 : 48-2~5 - EPG Yes
WCVN-DT 24: 54.1~6 - EPG Yes (KET 6 currently not active)
WDKY-DT 4 : 56.1 - EPG Yes (Fox Lexington, BTW)
WSTR-DT 33: 64.1 - EPG Yes

Oh yeah ... almost forgot the only stations from the above which are doing EIA-708 captions in a manner which HDV420(note HDV420 ONLY supports EIA-708 captions, it won't do 608, but will pass them through via composite/S-video out at 480i ONLY so 608 decoder in TV can decode them) can decode them are:

WDTN-DT (on 2.1 only)
WLWT-DT
WHIO-DT (on 7.1 only) - this is a new development, BTW
WCVN-DT

WRGT-DT - But ONLY during Fox programming that I've seen so far. Looks like the same thing might be the case for WDKY-DT Fox Lexington. Although, presently, it is "showing up" as an option to turn captions "off/on" from them, and If they're supporting 708 captions during non-fox programming it's possible the current programming running on those 2 stations just isn't captioned.

WKRC-DT, and on some of the services from WCET-DT, WPTD-DT and WPTO-DT, if I push the "caption" button, it does give me the option to turn it "on" or "off", but I've never actually seen any EIA-708 captions displayed from those stations. From other stations not listed above, if I push the "caption" button, it says "this feature not available".

In response to my email to Glenn Britt I heard back today from Pam McDonald VP of Public Affairs at TW Cinti. She stressed that negotiations with Raycom (WXIX) were ongoing and TW still hoped to be able to provide the game in HD this Sunday (no guarantees). The fiber run is in place and the channel has been allocated so they can move very quickly if the business issues get resolved. Lets hope that reason prevails on both sides of the table.

Couple of HTPC's, a media server, a Linux box, a weather server, a test platform, a personal box for my gf and a notebook. Hardly unusual for someone in my line of work. None of my equipment interferes with MY cable so I have no reason to think they would interfere with my neighbors. You seem to be under the impression that simply having more than one piece of technical/computer equipment automatically means interference and that is absurd.

It sounded to me like you hadn't even talked to your neighbor and and due to your inability to get the cable company to do its job you've decided to direct your frustration and blame the first thing you don't know anything about. I certainly hope no one like that is living near me. However if NOW you're saying you tried to talk to your neighbor and he was unwilling to discuss it with you and essentially called you a jackass then I'd have to agree.

peace . . .



Originally posted by tbenson81
Thanks for everyones help

Tim99 - 7 PC's in 1 room?

Hopefully it is nobody like that living near me. It doesnt make a difference if you live in your own house, but if you live in an apartment, you should at least be corteous of your neighbors and attempt to remedy any distortion you may be causing in their signals. So if you live in an apartment and are that person, you can indeed be labeled a "jackass"

Wow, if the stations I wrote emails to would read them, all my PSIP info and EPG would be working.

No EPG from WKRC-DT, no PSIP from WXIX at all

WRGT-DT is working now!

I am in fairfield twp, about 25 miles from various towers.

I have an antenna mounted in my attic and get decent reception. My hr10-250 hd tivo reads a signal strength of around 70. I don't have an actual signal meter to get a real reading. If I put a Terk TV5 antenna in the attic I get a reading of 90, and could probably get it higher with some better positioning. The powered Terk does not give any additional channels.

If I put an outlet in the attic and use the Terk, will I get a much better picture than the other passive antenna? How big a difference can I expect? I know its subjective but I appreciate the opinions.

Don

Tim99

Sounds like someone is getting a little too defensive over an innocent, harmless joke. Didnt mean to offend you or your 452 pieces of computer equipment. If you want to start taking cheap shots for something that was meant in good humor than be my guest. It sounds to me like someone was picked on a little too much as a kid.

Anyways - for those of you who possess the intellectual capacity to grasp the intentions of my comments (nitewatch, drDon) thanks again for your help and advice to try and help me rectify this problem

Tim- I will leave you and your linux servers alone.

Peace.....

Are you serious?? TitanTV is showing that WCPO is carrying the State of the Union address in HD tomorrow. I had no idea that they would spend the extra money on it yet.

Just an FYI

WSTR-DT is now broadcasting in DD 5.1 again.

it looks like all the nets will have the SOTU in HD

DJPtron,

What is the make model of the antenna in your attic? I'm not familiar with that specific model, but for the most part the Terk antennas aren't so great, but only way to know would be that you'd just have to try it to find out..

A preamp can't actually get you more signal at the antenna, and those readings off the reciever's meters can be decieving(they don't show actual signal strentgh -- at least any model I know of -- They are usually just "signal quality" readings -- some of the PC tuner cards do have acutal S/N readings in Db however, which is useful) .... That being said, from what I've seen, oftentimes the best place for an antenna can be near a window that faces the towers, but a high gain, directional antenna in attic can do better in some cases than a small antenna by window ...

--------------------------

Cokebear, Jim -- Believe it or not, they all carried the address in HD last year as well (Fox was Fox "Widescreen" too, I thought but my memory might be Hazy) ... Good sign that they are doing it again, though ...

microbob,

Thanks for the DD 5.1 update. Hey ... Just noticed WDKY-DT Lexington is is sending Fox HD now at 9:53pm .... EIA-708 captions too ... I assume it's DD 5.1 as well, but can't tell on this setup ...

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
Wow, if the stations I wrote emails to would read them, all my PSIP info and EPG would be working.

No EPG from WKRC-DT,

I read the email's and monitor the forum here.

If PSIP and EPG aren't working for WKRC then it must be something on your end. I have had it PSIP/EPG properly configured and running since last week. Message me if you still have a problem after re-scanning or tuning to 12-1 for a while. You need to tune to each channel for a while to get the EPG data or it won't show up.

What email are you sending to for WKRC?

I will have to create a WKRCHD email account for such email's to go. Will that that work for everyone?

Weasel

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Oh yeah ... almost forgot the only stations from the above which are doing EIA-708 captions in a manner which HDV420(note HDV420 ONLY supports EIA-708 captions, it won't do 608, but will pass them through via composite/S-video out at 480i ONLY so 608 decoder in TV can decode them) can decode them are:

<snip>

WKRC-DT, and on some of the services from WCET-DT, WPTD-DT and WPTO-DT, if I push the "caption" button, it does give me the option to turn it "on" or "off", but I've never actually seen any EIA-708 captions displayed from those stations. From other stations not listed above, if I push the "caption" button, it says "this feature not available".

Jeff I tweaked a little before going home. Any 708 Captioning now for WKRC?

Weasel

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
microbob,

Thanks for the DD 5.1 update. Hey ... Just noticed WDKY-DT Lexington is is sending Fox HD now at 9:53pm .... EIA-708 captions too ... I assume it's DD 5.1 as well, but can't tell on this setup. [/B]


Yeah, I just noticed the 5.1 audio during One Tree Hill. Thats good news about WDKY-DT. I have to turn the antenna to Lexington to get it but they are sending out a strong signal up my way. I now can watch Fox HD programming when WXIX preempts it for UC.

Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel
Jeff I tweaked a little before going home. Any 708 Captioning now for WKRC?

Weasel

Unfortuntely not yet. The "caption On/off" toggle is still there though, just no data showing up. Just to "make sure", I checked WHIO-DT, and 708 captions are there from HD "Judging Amy".

Would be interesting to know to what extent 708 captions are working on other receivers from the local stations, though. As I'm wondering if there may be a receiver specific issue involved here.

--------------------------------

I think that's a great idea about the email.

----------------------------------

On JY Dogg's problem --- It seems like I vaguely recall(this was from a "long time ago" as well) hearing about some issues some of the Mits sets with integrated ATSC receivers had with PSIP. It seems like I had even heard some of the earlier ones didn't even support PSIP at all, or "barely" so. I have to wonder if this might be somehow related to the issues he is having.

Thanks again, and keep up the great work at WKRC!

Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel
You need to tune to each channel for a while to get the EPG data or it won't show up. I'll back you up on that. If I tune the Samsung to 12-1 and immediately hit "guide" nothing happens. Clear it and hit "guide" again, and I get the whole thing. Same with WCPO-DT.

Doc

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
The "caption On/off" toggle is still there though, just no data showing up.

Exact same thing I got when I tried it, but I think we're using the same receiver (Zenith).

Did anyone see a commecrial last night on Fox19 during 10 O’clock news.
If was advertisement from Circuit City , Fox19 and TWC? (if my memory didn't short cuircuit).
The whole thing was basically like this:
If your local station (meaning TWC) will not carry Superball in HD and your tv has an HD tuner theny ou can stop by CC to pickup an indoor antenna.

Could they have come up with any more ridiculous commercial then this?
Only the latest TVs have HD tuners in them, and people who dont will have to get an OTA tuner where CC cant even keep stock of them in Cincinnati area.
I've been trying to get ahold of 451, but the only ones show up in Dayton or Columbus areas. :(

Originally posted by Dimitriz
Did anyone see a commecrial last night on Fox19 during 10 O’clock news.
If was advertisement from Circuit City , Fox19 and TWC? (if my memory didn't short cuircuit).
The whole thing was basically like this:
If your local station (meaning TWC) will not carry Superball in HD and your tv has an HD tuner theny ou can stop by CC to pickup an indoor antenna.

Could they have come up with any more ridiculous commercial then this?
Only the latest TVs have HD tuners in them, and people who dont will have to get an OTA tuner where CC cant even keep stock of them in Cincinnati area.
I've been trying to get ahold of 451, but the only ones show up in Dayton or Columbus areas. :( I didn't see the ad,but it seems as Fox19 has thrown the gloves off concerning TWC,there has been alot of promos mentioning 19HD being on Insight also.If negotiations were going well I don't think we would be seeing all these ads on Fox19,doesn't look good for TWC customers.

Or it could be part of Insight's deal, to co-promote with XIX. Must admit I like the picture and sound from XIX, when the show is HD.

Originally posted by hroeder
Or it could be part of Insight's deal, to co-promote with XIX. Bet on it.

Originally posted by Dimitriz
Did anyone see a commecrial last night on Fox19 during 10 O’clock news.
If was advertisement from Circuit City , Fox19 and TWC? (if my memory didn't short cuircuit).
The whole thing was basically like this:
If your local station (meaning TWC) will not carry Superball in HD and your tv has an HD tuner theny ou can stop by CC to pickup an indoor antenna.

Could they have come up with any more ridiculous commercial then this?
Only the latest TVs have HD tuners in them, and people who dont will have to get an OTA tuner where CC cant even keep stock of them in Cincinnati area.
I've been trying to get ahold of 451, but the only ones show up in Dayton or Columbus areas. :(

Due to some rather nice tropospheric enhancement in the area this morning, I caught this commercial twice on WXIX-19. (I wasn't able to get the DT due to a local on ch. 29, but WLWT-DT was in and out.) Congratulations to WXIX and Circuit City for actually talking about HDTV. The Indy stations act as though HDTV should remain a secret.

BTW, I was at one of the Indy CC's last week and they had a good display and fine stock of every STB included on their website.

Steve

What's interesting is that WXIX-DT, partly by virtue of being a Fox station, went from having no HD and only being on the air part of the day to actually promoting HD, leapfrogging all of the other locals - save for WSTR-DT - when it comes to HDTV promotion. There's still not a commercial station in Cincinnati that even puts "DT" in its channel bug or logo. And, to my knowledge, not a one of them runs any HD promos (missing out on a money-making co-sponsoring opportunity, IMHO).

DrDon,

And do you really think they'd be doing this promotion if it weren't for the Super Bowl? I can't imagine buying a TV for just one game. . .and I like watching football. But nationally there are predictions of over a million new HD sets just for this event.

fyi - received a call today from a TW rep informing that the DVR's for HD are now available for customer use. Didn't enquire as to model type but hoping they're "bug-free".

The only thing remaining on my wishlist now is WXIX in HD. Perhaps the switch will be flipped Saturday afternoon.

Originally posted by hpm123
fyi - received a call today from a TW rep informing that the DVR's for HD are now available for customer use. Didn't enquire as to model type but hoping they're "bug-free".

The only thing remaining on my wishlist now is WXIX in HD. Perhaps the switch will be flipped Saturday afternoon.

Interesting that you say that we the post from someone a few days ago saying they got one on Jan. 01 and it crashes all the time and crapped out totally. He said that a tech told him that the release will probably be a few more months since they aren't having much success yet.

It would be nice if we could all get the same answer. Every time I call they basically say "soon" and I can't get any farther.

Oh well.

fyi - received a call today from a TW rep informing that the DVR's for HD are now available for customer use. Didn't enquire as to model type but hoping they're "bug-free".

Ditto. I actually picked mine up this morning, they are the 8000HD. I hooked it up called in the activation and so far so good. Initial response is that HD doesn't have the 'punch' that the 3510 box did.

OnDemand channels look worse! :(

GUI is nicer and I've scheduled my first recordings for tonight (unattended). I'll report back to see if all went well.

Funny thing is I picked it up at the Tri-County TWC location and I almost had to argue with the counter guy because he still thought they were only being distributed to TWC employees, even though I had a service order on file from Sales & Retention.... he finally confirmed via a veteran rep that they are for public release now.

I don't have DVI enabled equipment so I can't test that aspect, but I do know that all other outputs are not active outside of component. I'm waiting on a call from TWC tier-three reps to verify if they will do the update to active the s-video/audio at least.

I had to hook my DTC100 back up to catch American Idol in HD last night...damn it was nice! Let's hope TWC gets their act together by Sunday!

Troy

Originally posted by hroeder
And do you really think they'd be doing this promotion if it weren't for the Super Bowl? Definitely, yes. Possibly not the Circuit City "antenna" promos, but the other promos for certain. And I know Insight would be plugging it. They did when they added WKRC-DT, too. They didn't make as big of a fuss with WCPO-DT, but that deal called for the addition of the weather subchannel, not any promotion.

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
Ditto. I actually picked mine up this morning, they are the 8000HD. I hooked it up called in the activation and so far so good. Initial response is that HD doesn't have the 'punch' that the 3510 box did.

OnDemand channels look worse! :(

GUI is nicer and I've scheduled my first recordings for tonight (unattended). I'll report back to see if all went well.

Funny thing is I picked it up at the Tri-County TWC location and I almost had to argue with the counter guy because he still thought they were only being distributed to TWC employees, even though I had a service order on file from Sales & Retention.... he finally confirmed via a veteran rep that they are for public release now.

I don't have DVI enabled equipment so I can't test that aspect, but I do know that all other outputs are not active outside of component. I'm waiting on a call from TWC tier-three reps to verify if they will do the update to active the s-video/audio at least.

I had to hook my DTC100 back up to catch American Idol in HD last night...damn it was nice! Let's hope TWC gets their act together by Sunday!

Troy

That sucks to hear that you think it doesn't pack the same "punch". I was afraid of that. Oh well, I guess I will give it a try when I get a call. Sounds like I may return in though if the PQ is sub-par and just keep my PACE.

Damn!

My email problems are with WCPO and WXIX because they don't respond, not WKRC.

Still no PSIP from WXIX, even though the last year and a half I have had it and during the time when everyone else was having the problem receiving them. No email response yet.

No email from WCPO engineer about 'jaggies' or DD5.1.

I still can't get current program info from WKRC-DT. I get the PSIP, channel remap. I get PSIP, EPG from WLWT, WCPO, WPTO, WPTD, WGRT, WCET, WCVN, WSTR, so I don't think the problem is on my end.

I get PSIP data from all the digital channels via my DTC100 and a pair of rabbit ears. No jaggies on WCPO.

My set is a Mits 55" that was ISF calibrated a couple of years ago.

Troy

JYD.. WCPO has acknowleged the jaggies problem and will fix it sometime this year when they replace their motorola equiptment. I too sent them emails with no response - but when I sent them snail mail, they responed with an email right a way.. look back in the thread and you will see the exact text of what I sent. Snail mail is required to go into their public file - email I believe is not

jim

The thing with any DVR is some reduction in picture quality. When I used to have a RePlay, I would only watch football on the pass through. You're no longer watching the signal, your watching the replay of the signal.

That's one of the things that has impressed me about the Motorola boxes. The picture quality is better.

Any DVR, including that high priced TiVo HD, will have some affect on the picture quality. Being able to time shift HD for a couple of dollars a month is worth it. An HD Tivo goes for what? $1000. That's something like 20 years of subscription payments to Insight on my Motorola box. And the technology will either be different by then, or I'll be dead.

HRoeder,

Some HD DVRs actually are just 'bit-buckets', which means they record the incoming signal as is with no re-encoding. I'm not sure how the 8000/8300 series work, but I would imagine for HD they aren't re-encoding the signal.

You can find the HD Tivo for a lot less if you shop around online. Sears even price matches online prices (dependent on the store).

Troy

Troy:
My Mits is the WS-65869 with integrated tuner. The 'jaggies' exist on every set, OTA or cable. My set is in fine condition, not ISF, but I know what I am doing, and have all the equipment to do it. Calibrated with PC using 480i, 480p, and 1080i output. I do need to do some clean-up because the tubes are changing with time, but picture still looks great!

Jim:
I have read all the posts about WCPO. What I can't figure out is why the problem would happen after the move to Gilbert Ave? They also told us we would have DD5.1. Hopefully the problem can get fixed fast because the 'jaggies' are pissing me off!

My Mits has the latest updates from Mits. I plugged the flash card into the back of the set, let it do its thing and mailed it back. This was last fall, but no new updates since.

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
I get PSIP data from all the digital channels via my DTC100 and a pair of rabbit ears. No jaggies on WCPO.

My set is a Mits 55" that was ISF calibrated a couple of years ago.

Troy

Troy,

Don't take any of this the wrong way as I realize you are just reporting what you are getting/seeing, however, just to clarify some things that "relate" to your report for clarity's sake.

If you're interested about WCPO-DT's "jaggies"(probably more appropriately called a "staircase pattern") See Dr1394's posts and his attached graphics earlier in this thread, and our discussion concerning what he found concerning WCPO-DT's "HD" in this thread.

That's great that your mits was ISF calibrated, and that you can't see any "jaggies". But, unless they fixed in since Sunday night it's not changing the fact that WCPO-DT is not even actually sending "true" HD to anyone, and the "jaggies" are one visable indication of that. It's 1280x360 "actual" resolution during ABC HD at least, and that isn't HD. If you do a direct comparison with another source of ABC HD, such as WKEF-DT Dayton or WSYX-DT columbus both which are actually sending "true" 1280x720 ABC HD -- I think you'll likely see the difference ...

It's in their BITSTREAM during ABC HD, the same datastream they send to TW and Insight and OTA. ABC HD feed is being downsampled at WCPO-DT for some reason to 1280x360 before their encoder is sending it out, effectively as "line doubled" or "upconverted" to 1280x720. 1280x360 is as much "effective" resolution anyone is getting during ABC HD. From what it looks like here anyway, it doesn't seem to be happening during their SD upconverts(local programming/etc).

Also, keep in mind --- Just because your DTC-100, and my DTC-100 is working fine with PSIP, and, just because most other receivers seem to be working with the area stations' PSIP currently, it doesn't mean that either/or : a.). Stations have their PSIP tables set up 100% correctly, if not it might effect certian receivers but not others, or : B.) Certian receivers may have PSIP implementation/software/firmware issues.

It occurs to me that unless they've Fixed it -- even though it wouldn't be an absolute apples to apples comparison -- for those who don't have another source for ABC HD, doing a little channel surfing during tonite's HD "State of the union address" might be a way for folks to do at least a bit of a seat of the pants comparison between PQ from WCPO-DT and HD from other stations ....

Jeff,

I'm with ya! I wasn't making an over-the-top effort to point out the jaggies issues, just mentioning it.

I guess I should probably have my eyes checked then based on what the technical aspect of the problem is? :) LOL 1280X360 is shortchanged 720 so the jaggies would actually be from upscaling the lower res.

I watch Lost faithfully and I also record the shows to DVD (until today that is because of the S-Video out problem with the 8000HD). I've got Lost scheduled to record tonight, I'll try to examine it to see if I'm seeing that problem as well off the DVR.

I wonder if the scaler in my old 3510 was that good that it masked the jaggies? There is a noted difference in picture quality in both HD and SD between the 8000 and the 3510 boxes.

I won't be home tonight to see Lost with the DTC100, but I'll see if I can possibly analyze some additional WCPO programming as well.

Agreed on the PSIP info, again I was just pointing it out. Also for the record my DTC100 is "virgin" meaning I never used it for DirectTV so I have the original firmware on it. I don't know if that makes a difference.

Also as an aside, I haven't perused the multitude of postings on this thread from front to back to know everyone's hardware and circumstances, so when I post, I post with the knowledge on the last page or two of information. Calibration is essential for HDTV owners and I was throwing that out as something that people could take into consideration when critically analyzing their HD picture quality. You know as well as I know that although many people post to the forums, there are still those who haven't taken the time to optimize their HDTVs. I don't know who has and who hasn't so I offer up my generalities.

Troy

For those few of you who have gotten calls from TW about the HD DVR being available, do you remember when you were put on the waiting list?

I'm just trying to figure out how far down the list I am. I was put on the list in late October.

For the guy who picked his up at Tri-County. Did they ask you to prove in any sort of way that you were on the list? I'm just curious if I just show up and would they give me one.

As to the discussion on degraded PQ in DVRs, I have read good things about the Motorola boxes and the SA 8300. I've read quite a bit of bad things about the 8000 in terms of picture, crashing, etc. I think if a box is designed well, you really shouldn't see a degraded PQ, it should just be taking in the data, saving it to a disc, and then regurgitating it. I think the problem with the 8000 model is that has a crappy scaler and a slow processor and you don't get an option to PASSTHROUGH so you are stuck with it what it wants to output. I think most other cable DVRs have a passthrough feature if you aren't happy with the box's internal scaler. I think the HD TIVO does not have passthrough, but I hear mostly good things about it so I assume it must have a pretty nice scaler in it.

I hope the people who wrote in a lot of the threads I read are just to overly critical and I will be happy enough with it to keep it. I definitely want to give it a try, but I am not feeling to optimistic.

DVR:

I would just go into one of the locations and tell them that you received a voice mail that a DVR was available for you. I can almost guarantee that they will make the swap. The people at the counter do not have a clue as to what is going on.

tony

go tony, that sooo sounds like something I'd do. Of course Im in No KY and have D*, but still, thats gooood.

Originally posted by tbenson81
DVR:

I would just go into one of the locations and tell them that you received a voice mail that a DVR was available for you. I can almost guarantee that they will make the swap. The people at the counter do not have a clue as to what is going on.

tony

Funny that we think alike!!! I was extremely close to just going there this evening and seeing if I could pull it off. I ran out of time and couldn't get over there before 7. I'm debating heading over tomorrow.

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
I wonder if the scaler in my old 3510 was that good that it masked the jaggies?


Seems quite possible ... Keep in mind however that WCPO-DT's encoder is still sending 1280x720p, but all the "unique" pixel data is just not there as it should be...

If you don't have a 2nd source of ABC HD for comparison it is especially understandable many may not "notice" it. However, even though I DO have 2 sources(and sometimes 3) -- It IS surprising, but I also surely didn't realize it wasn't really "HD" until Ron provided the evidence -- Sure, I had noticed that since their studio move it looked a little soft, and with not as much apparent detail as is the case with ABC HD from Dayton/Columbus ABC HD affiliates .... Although -- It was pretty much identical HD PQ with Columbus/Dayton ABC HD PRIOR to WCPO-DT's studio move - BTW, they're all sending 720p+not upconverting to 1080i at the station as WCPO-DT used to do prior to Spring 2003.

So, before I actually knew what was going on, other than the "jaggies" my eyes weren't able to make the "connection" either ... .. And, as we know, even SD upconverts can look quite good if done "right" at the station, or with a good scaler on our end ...

-----------------------

Anyway -- Just checked WCPO-DT during "Lost" -- This is a new issue which I first noticed on Sunday(and posted about it then as well) :Zenith HDV420 decoder is still dropping about 1/2 of the frames(audio fine, signal fine - it isn't "dropouts", it's just dropped frames) from WCPO-DT during ABC HD, local upconverts are fine. It might even be worse than it was on Sunday. Still don't get any dropped frames via DTC-100 ... the "Jaggies" are still there, as is the reduced detail in comparison with ABC HD from WKEF-DT Dayton, where "all is well" with ABC HD presently ....

Update: Interesting .. No longer getting dropped frames from WCPO-DT during SOTU address ... I do know it's not a lack of 3:2 pulldown issue here(it's much more severe than that would be anyway). But don't know if WCPO-DT changed something, or perhaps if for some reason it's happening because of some way they've got their encoder setup that is making a difference on this decoder between film(24fps) or video(however it's working tonight) source programming ...

Originally posted by mchuckp
Funny that we think alike!!! I was extremely close to just going there this evening and seeing if I could pull it off. I ran out of time and couldn't get over there before 7. I'm debating heading over tomorrow.

Let me know if you have any success with this. If it works, I may jet home from work tomorrow and try to swing by there before 7 and swindle one out of them.

I'm also not even convinced that the "waiting list" really exists. I know that about six different reps said they would add me, yet every time I call in, they offer to add me again. Who knew a list of names would be so hard to keep track of with computers.

Offended? Perhaps you should read slower. I just thought it was funny that you were calling your neighbor a jackass when you didn't what you were talking about. In the light of your complete reversal and now stumbling apology I realize now it was just poor social skills. I guess the problem is that from your point of view it's just not funny once the folks with the 'intellectual capacity' pointed out it wasn't your neighbor that was the jackass.

Actually, I still think that's funny.

peace . . .


Originally posted by tbenson81
Tim99

Sounds like someone is getting a little too defensive over an innocent, harmless joke. Didnt mean to offend you or your 452 pieces of computer equipment. If you want to start taking cheap shots for something that was meant in good humor than be my guest. It sounds to me like someone was picked on a little too much as a kid.

Anyways - for those of you who possess the intellectual capacity to grasp the intentions of my comments (nitewatch, drDon) thanks again for your help and advice to try and help me rectify this problem

Tim- I will leave you and your linux servers alone.

Peace.....

The State of the Union is an interesting opportunity to compare pictures on the local channels. I realize there are a lot of unfair variables.

For me using a D* HD10 OTA WKRC was the best and WXIX was the worst. WXIX doesn't even look like HD at least by comparison.

peace . . .

Someone recently posted that they got a call from TW Cincinnati stating that they were starting to distribute hd dvr's. I got a call, too. I questioned the tech at length, but he couldn't give me any specifics. I went to Tri-County expecting to get the SA 8000hd, but was quite surprised. I've got an 8300hd.:D I haven't had a chance to do much with it yet, but it seems to work great.

The tech also said that they could make me a deal on an HDMI to DVI cable for $22. The girl at the counter had no clue about this, & said that they don't provide those. They are $149 at Best Buy, so I'll give Time Warner a call tomorrow. I'll post a better review of the box after I've used it for a couple of days, but so far it's great!

I was on the waiting list since early summer.

Originally posted by tim99
For me using a D* HD10 OTA WKRC was the best and WXIX was the worst. WXIX doesn't even look like HD at least by comparison.


We were just discussing that on Lexington thread. I don't know what is going on with that but it certianly isn't represntative of FOX HD(or even the "old Fox WS was better than that), such as for the NFL HD games this year.

it was WAY soft, and I even saw what looked like NTSC composite video artifacts. Same thing happened during some shots back last July when they did HD production of MLB All-star game, but it was distrutibed as Fox WS to most of the affiliates.

Originally posted by jscincy
Someone recently posted that they got a call from TW Cincinnati stating that they were starting to distribute hd dvr's. I got a call, too. I questioned the tech at length, but he couldn't give me any specifics. I went to Tri-County expecting to get the SA 8000hd, but was quite surprised. I've got an 8300hd.:D I haven't had a chance to do much with it yet, but it seems to work great.

The tech also said that they could make me a deal on an HDMI to DVI cable for $22. The girl at the counter had no clue about this, & said that they don't provide those. They are $149 at Best Buy, so I'll give Time Warner a call tomorrow. I'll post a better review of the box after I've used it for a couple of days, but so far it's great!

I was on the waiting list since early summer.

You've got to be kidding!! I know TW is screwed up, but to give out 8000's last week and then all of sudden give out the 8300's? Not that I am complaining, but it just shows how incompetent they are. Please keep us posted on the 8300. I've been calling TW for about 10 months now about their DVR's but no call yet for me to pick one up. Maybe I'll just make my way to Tri-County tomorrow and see if I can get one anyway!

So, Troy..

Looking at the Democratic response, do you see a continuous circle on either of the ABC logos? If the one on the left isn't a smooth, perfect unbroken circle, you're getting the jaggies. It's the best example I see. On WCPO-DT, the top is a flat line. On WKEF-DT, it's a solid white circle.

Originally posted by jscincy
Someone recently posted that they got a call from TW Cincinnati stating that they were starting to distribute hd dvr's. I got a call, too. I questioned the tech at length, but he couldn't give me any specifics. I went to Tri-County expecting to get the SA 8000hd, but was quite surprised. I've got an 8300hd.:D I haven't had a chance to do much with it yet, but it seems to work great.

The tech also said that they could make me a deal on an HDMI to DVI cable for $22. The girl at the counter had no clue about this, & said that they don't provide those. They are $149 at Best Buy, so I'll give Time Warner a call tomorrow. I'll post a better review of the box after I've used it for a couple of days, but so far it's great!

I was on the waiting list since early summer.

Well after your post I have a new light in my eyes! Now that I know they both exist, I will not except an 8000. If they can't give me an 8300, I will be doing some serious bitching.

Please keep us updated on your thoughts.

After sitting here all evening being pissed off that I still haven't received a call from TW telling me to come pick up my HD DVR, I go upstairs and see that there are messages on the answering machine. Low and behold, there was a message on there from "Mary" from TW letting me know that my HD DVR is now available for me to get and to call her back!!! I tried calling her, but just got her VM. So I'll give her a shout in the AM and then head on over to Tri County to pick up my 8300 (hopefully!)!

I'll post a followup when I get to work in the morning...

For the guy who picked his up at Tri-County. Did they ask you to prove in any sort of way that you were on the list? I'm just curious if I just show up and would they give me one.

No proof of being on the list, but when you get the callback from Customer Sales & Retention they put in a work order for you to receive it. That's how the CSR at the local offices know you're legit.

I doubt very seriously if you get one without a work order on file. If I remember correctly, I just got put on the list in December again, but I remember inquiring about it last summer sometime to a CSR.

I've got an 8300hd.

Ok, now the gloves come off! :) Wow, that's the one I wanted, I wonder if I can upgrade...? Ok, I looked at the picture posted and I have a question, why is the 8300HD box in that picture on a shelf with the promo banner above it? Doesn't look like a 'home' shot to me...explanation?

So, Troy..

Looking at the Democratic response, do you see a continuous circle on either of the ABC logos? If the one on the left isn't a smooth, perfect unbroken circle, you're getting the jaggies. It's the best example I see. On WCPO-DT, the top is a flat line. On WKEF-DT, it's a solid white circle.

I actually missed the State of the Union Address as I was laughing my arse off at The Funny Bone tonight.

Funny thing is I recorded Lost as planned and without a hitch so far, so I'm crossing my fingers (I also recorded American Idol at the same time) and I don't see anthing substantial to my eyes. I did notice some jagged edges on the title as it scrolled by but I had to actually pause it on the DVR and slow motion through it to even notice it. My ABC logo on the show looks perfectly round, no jagged edges. Some of the opening credits had some jaggedness to them, mostly in the center of the letters but nothing to write home about. I analyzed at least 80% of the show and I'm not seeing it fellas, nothing that's truly visable enough to me to justify raising a voice. If anyone would like to venture to Springdale to give a look see let me know, I'd love to discover that I'm not crazy.

Overall the picture is nice, but as I stated before not the visual 'punch' that the 3510 had. I'm not sure if it's a contrast/brightness issues or what. Overall the HD images I'm seeing from the 8000 are very 'smooth'. The 3510 had the impact but it was also slightly more 'digital' looking in comparison to the 8000.

IMO, I think the TWC 8300 is a hoax (no offense being your first post and all). Sounds too incredulous even for TWC.

Troy

[i]Ok, I looked at the picture posted and I have a question, why is the 8300HD box in that picture on a shelf with the promo banner above it? Doesn't look like a 'home' shot to me...explanation?

IMO, I think the TWC 8300 is a hoax (no offense being your first post and all). Sounds too incredulous even for TWC.

Troy [/B]

As long as I had to reduce the resolution to post the pic here, I put it in Photoshop, took a close up of the model number, and pasted it on top. Here's another picture of the 8300, on top of my ReplayTV, with the infrared emitter from my TV in front of it.

...and here's the box, the book, & Monday's paper. That wouldn't be as easy to Photoshop.

Originally posted by jscincy
...and here's the box, the book, & Monday's paper. That wouldn't be as easy to Photoshop.

jscincy,

Can I ask when you were put on the waiting list? The above gentlemen stated that he thought he was put on in december but does at least remember inquiring about it in the summer. I'm not going to be a happy camper if I find out a bunch of people who signed up after me got calls and I didn't.

On a different note, now that we know that TWC is carrying both models of DVRs, my guess is that they will have both. They are probably taking whatever boxes SA can send them. Software wise, they probably work the same.

Can anyone confirm if the DVI/HDMI is activve on either? 8000 has DVI and 8300 has HDMI.

Wait, the 8300 only has HDMI and DVI? Is this true?

HDMI and no DVI is what I meant?

That sucks if the 8300 does not have DVI

Originally posted by tbenson81
HDMI and no DVI is what I meant?

That sucks if the 8300 does not have DVI

Yep, that is true. but all you need is a HDMI to DVI cable. Or if you already have a DVI cable then buy an HDMI adapter for one end.

I got a call yesterday afternoon about my HD DVR and now I just got off the phone with a TW Sales person and she gave me a work order number and reserved a box at the Highland office. Hopefully it will be the 8300 but if not I'll worry about swapping the box later. I don't know how long i've been on a waiting list, but it would have been Octoberish.

HDMI is backwards compatible with DVI, all you need is a HDMI to DVI cable:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=HDMI+to+DVI+cable&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&tab=wf&scoring=p

Originally posted by jscincy
The tech also said that they could make me a deal on an HDMI to DVI cable for $22. The girl at the counter had no clue about this, & said that they don't provide those. They are $149 at Best Buy, so I'll give Time Warner a call tomorrow.

Best Buy cables are WAY overpriced. If TWC can't provide the cable as indicated by the tech check Pacific Cables (http://www.pacificcable.com). Eexcellent quality, huge selection and reasonable prices. A 1 Meter HDMI - DVI (http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=HDMIDVI-1) cable is $28.

I already have a DVI cable, where do you guys suggest locally to run out and pick up an adpater? I checked BestBuy's website and they only have Monster brand for 30 bucks. Is there anywhere else in town to get one? I checked circuit city and hhgregg online and they dont seem to carry the adapters.

Originally posted by tbenson81
I already have a DVI cable, where do you guys suggest locally to run out and pick up an adpater? I checked BestBuy's website and they only have Monster brand for 30 bucks. Is there anywhere else in town to get one? I checked circuit city and hhgregg online and they dont seem to carry the adapters.

Best Buy is the only place I have seen them locally. But I think $25-$30 is the cheapest you will find one.

For those that got a callback for the HD DVR.....

Did any of you have trouble calling back the "TeleSales and Retention" dept? They left me a message yesterday, so I have been calling them all morning and I just get their VM. I left a message, but no callback yet.

I'm peeved about all of this TWC DVR talk going on... Seems people are getting their DVR's... I had one on beta test, and it blew up over the weekend. TWC said they didn't have any to replace mine with.

I've finally had enough of TWC's lying and BS. D* is coming out Sat to hook me back up!

Interested to see if the SA8300 thing is for real or not. Everyone in other markets that have the 8300's really like them. I hope TWC rolls the 8300's out to all their subscribers as the 8000 is really junky.

I have read on several other boards that many people have problems when using the HDMI connection with the 8300. They either A) Have problems stretching the SD pictures or with the box outputting the correct resolution or B) this seems to be the most prevalent - When HDMI is active, you cannot revceive dolby digital via the digital optical output.

I know very few people have the 8300 here, but if anyone does, can they post if they have problems with any resolutions or optical audio when using HDMI. I dont want to give up my Pace box where the picture is awesome and all the outputs work perfectly if this box still has tons of problems.

Knowing how TW operates - it is very likely that I will trade in my Pace, get this 8300 home and something will not work. Then I will try and return to Tri-County and my pace box will have magically disappeared.

Well I stopped in the Tri-County location around 10 AM this morning to see if I could get a HD DVR box even though they have not called me yet. I played dumb and just said that I heard from several people they were available. They said they can't give them out unless you have been called and have a work order for one. They offered to put me on the waiting list.

This is where it got interesting:

I mentioned that I was already on the waiting list and that I was put on it back in October. I told them that I heard from someone who got a call already and had just been put on the list in December. I asked them to verify that I am even on the list. They went through it and said that I was added on January 16th. My blood started to boil!!! I proceeded to bitch them out for screwing something up. I was put on the list back in October and have been calling about every two weeks since then to check on the status. So how the hell do I all of a sudden become on the list a few weeks ago.

They apolagized and said they cannot create work orders there and they have to come from customer service. I called and talked to a CSR and gave them the low-down hoping someone would apolagize and rectify the situation and let me pick up a box today. They said there is nothing she can do but was going to have someone call me. She said they will likely not be able to help me out and I will just have to wait.

So now I'm waiting for someone else to call so I can bitch at them. Now that I've been repositioned in line, I don't know how long it will be until I get a call. I guess it could be any day or in a few months. They did tell me there are about 600-700 people on the waiting list. They also said that about 3 different lists had been circulating over time and was recently condensed to one and it created problems that they have had to deal with already.

Morale of the story: If you have not gotten a call yet, you may want to at least call and verify you are on the list.

One more thing: When I got there this morning, there was someone there delivering a pallet of 8300's. I'm wondering if there is some 8000's around that still happen to work and that is what the early people on the list got and all the new ones will be 8300's or will they be randomly getting both in, depending on what SA has available.

I have a favor of anyone who has gotten a call: I want to bitch someone out who has some pull, could you give me the name and number of the lady who has been calling to let you know they are available. I figure she might be the one I need to talk to. You can PM me if you want.

Thanks,
mchuckp

Wohooo, we've done it now!, lol

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Enquirer staff writer

HDTV owners wanting to see Super Bowl XXXIX Sunday on Fox can get a special deal on an indoor antenna through Fox affiliate WXIX-TV (Channel 19)

A $25 indoor antenna will be available for $19.19 at area Circuit City stores through Sunday, says Tony Phillips, Channel 19 marketing director.

The promotion was arranged for HDTV owners with Time Warner Cable, which doesn't have an agreement to carry Fox HDTV programming - including the Super Bowl at 6:25 p.m. Sunday - with Raycom Media, owner of Channel 19.

"If your cable system doesn't carry Fox 19 in HDTV, then you can go and get the special price," Phillips says.

Insight Communications in Northern Kentucky, and Adelphia Cable in Clermont and Butler counties, signed Fox HDTV deals with Raycom last month.

Time Warner spokesman Rob Howard said his company is "hopeful" an HDTV deal can be reached before Sunday's game, the most-watched TV program of the year. Raycom has been negotiating a HDTV agreement with Time Warner for two years, a Raycom executive said last month.

About 15,000 Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky homes have HDTVs, say local TV station executives. Most area HDTV owners rely on cable or satellite for reception because the hilly terrain makes it difficult to tune in an over-the-air signal.

Channel 19 has posted tips for HDTV owners on its Web site, www.fox19.com.


I am assuming that this is the (joke of an) antenna:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Terk-AM-FM-Indoor-Antenna--TOWER-/sem/rpsm/oid/75747/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
(I saw no other one in the price range of $25)

Originally posted by mchuckp
jscincy,

Can I ask when you were put on the waiting list?

Can anyone confirm if the DVI/HDMI is activve on either? 8000 has DVI and 8300 has HDMI.
I don't remember exactly when I first called, but it was late spring or early summer.

The TW rep on the phone did say that the HDMI port was active & tried to sell me a cable. The Tri County office knew nothing about the cables, but I bought a 12' HDMI to DVI cable on Ebay last night for $25.

Originally posted by tbenson81
B) this seems to be the most prevalent - When HDMI is active, you cannot revceive dolby digital via the digital optical output.


I sure hope that's not the case. I never would have ordered the HDMI cable if I knew that!

So far, I've recorded 2 HD shows & 2 SD shows, and it's been perfect. The box seems to change channels a little quicker than my old SD dvr, and they have also improved the resolution of the on screen display a little.

When I got there this morning, there was someone there delivering a pallet of 8300's

WOW! A pallet of 8300s makes me droooolllll! :)

JsCincy,

No disrespect intended with my post, I just wanted to validate the accuracy of your post and make sure that we werent' the victims of some cruel prank (which happens all the time).

Congrats on your box and let us know of any problems you incur. If you could test to see if the s-video/audio ports on your unit are working in conjunction with the HD out.

Other than that I tried to put my box through some extreme paces to see how it holds up, it did good.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Troy

Do any of the TW boxes have an OTA ATSC tuner in them?? if not, then the promotion is a waste of time.. becasue how many of the 15,000 (so they say) hdtv sets have a built in atsc tuner...

Originally posted by jim tressler
Do any of the TW boxes have an OTA ATSC tuner in them?? if not, then the promotion is a waste of time.. becasue how many of the 15,000 (so they say) hdtv sets have a built in atsc tuner...

From my understanding built in tuners been sold for ~ a year.
Most TVs that have then are more $$$ (unless you bought a Sanyo 30"-32" from Wallmart for 647) so essentially I'd about 10% people out there can use this promotion, not to mention that antenna sucks either way.

Originally posted by tbenson81
I have read on several other boards that many people have problems when using the HDMI connection with the 8300. They either A) Have problems stretching the SD pictures or with the box outputting the correct resolution or B) this seems to be the most prevalent - When HDMI is active, you cannot revceive dolby digital via the digital optical output.

I know very few people have the 8300 here, but if anyone does, can they post if they have problems with any resolutions or optical audio when using HDMI. I dont want to give up my Pace box where the picture is awesome and all the outputs work perfectly if this box still has tons of problems.

Knowing how TW operates - it is very likely that I will trade in my Pace, get this 8300 home and something will not work. Then I will try and return to Tri-County and my pace box will have magically disappeared.

From what I have gathered in the forums here is the issue you wil face using the HDMI port on the 8300:

If you go from HDMI>HDMI, the 8300 will disable the optical out because it wants to send the audio through the HDMI cable. This is a design flaw but can be corrected in some cities that use the SARA software because it is in the menu to override this. In Cincy, we use the PASSPORT software and currently this option is NOT in the menu but they are working on it.

If you go from HDMI>DVI (TV) then everything works fine because you have broken the HDMI link so it will send the audio through the optical port.

If you use component, you have no issues.

Some people have tried using 2 HDMI cables and try to break the HDMI connection by using a DVI adapter in the middle. THIS DOES NOT WORK!

Until they correct the software we use, you will have to use either a DVI port or component if you want 5.1 sent to your receiver. Who knows maybe it was corrected on ours since it is new. Please post if you find this true.

I'm personally in the clear since I want to go from HDMI>DVI anyway.

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
I'd love to discover that I'm not crazy.


Troy, I don't think you are crazy. I'd think you would see it if it were there with the equipment you are using. I would be interested in finding out however, why you(and a couple of other folks) aren't getting the issue, while everyone else(probably about 40-50 or so folks have reported "seeing the jaggies" from WCPO-DT during ABC HD since Late august 2004).

If it weren't for the evidence Ron provided showing that 1280x360 "effective" resolution is all that's there in WCPO-DT's datastream during ABC HD, I might think WCPO-DT is actually sending 1280x720 "unique" pixel data, but that most decoders, for some reason are just "using" 1280x360 of it.

Since you may have missed it, check out these three posts and the screenshots attached to those posts that show the difference between certian instances of the "jaggies" from WCPO-DT, and the "jaggie free" ABC HD from WKEF-DT, ABC Dayton - This shows what I'm getting here, I believe this is what others are seeing as well :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4595107#post4595107

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4595134#post4595134

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4595326#post4595326

Note that the digital camera used was same distance from screen(in the exact same "spot") for the comparison screenshots in each case from both WCPO-DT+WKEF-DT. The exact same camera settings(F-stop/shutter speed/etc - which were adjusted manually - Canon Powershot G1 is the Digital Camera that was used) were used for each, and the exact same jpg image compression settings were used. Also Note that both WCPO-DT+WKEF-DT send 720p from their encoders, which is scaled to 1080i at my end to support native scan rate of display.

The Display used is a RCA F 38310 JX4, 38" direct-view 16x9 HD display with the internal version of RCA DTC-100(technically, RCA's "DM-1" module). DTC-100 Firmware ver. 4.37 - Which BTW, was the "original" firmware that came with it in Nov 2001 when I bougt it, I also never used the D* receiver on DTC-100, and never upgraded the firmware. It's the next to last firmware version released for DTC-100.

The screenshot that shows the jaggies around the ABC logo in MNF is quite similar to what occurs around the "standard" ABC Logo with other HD programming, such as last night during "Lost" ... Note that while the jaggies are probably most noticable on the Yardlines from certian camera angles during MNF HD football, and around certian graphics such as ABC logo/etc, they are also sometimes noticable along certian "edges" in "normal" video, even during shows like "Lost", or "Alias"/etc/etc. I recall seeing an especially noticable instance during a scene from a parking lot in one show(don't remember what it was), the top "edge" of a quarter panel/bedside of a pickup truck in a parking lot was just shimmering with "staircase pattern" or "jaggies" as the camera moved along on a Dolly along with the actors who were walking through the parking lot ....

Also, note that if I had taken these screenshots during a MNF HD game in 2003-2004 season, you wouldn't SEE any difference. This didn't start happening from WCPO-DT until AFTER the move of their studio location. Just speculation, but I expect that the equipment at the new studio is not set up "the same" as it was, or they added new equipment in the signal chain that for some reason "effects" the chain between the Sat receiver for ABC HD feed and the encoder which is causing the downsampling to 1280x360.

---------------

As far as calibration goes, you won't be able to tell it from a digital camera screenshot, but with the possible exception of best possible accuracy from the color decoder(It certianly seems awfully close, however) just FYI since you seem to be interested, my displays are as calibrated as I can get them using various test patterns/etc. and via the available controls available via user+service menu+Flyback transformer/etc/etc. Except for user controls(Brightness/contrast/etc/etc) There wasn't actually much else that needed to be done on one display(the RCA) except for a slight geometry adjustment, I expect they did a good job with it either at the factory, or perhaps the retailer. Perhaps it was just a "lucky thing", but it certianly seems like it had more than just a quick greyscale calibration at the factory before I got it ...

But, even if the displays weren't "calibrated", I don't know of any "calibration issues" (even to a ISF tech whom with the proper equipment could probably do a little more than I can) that would explain what is going on here given what I'm getting.

IF I was getting "jaggies", and/or apparent "reduced detail" or perceived increased "softness" from other sources of ABC HD(or even any other HD/SD from other sources) besides WCPO-DT as well, I might be checking settings for SVM(which I even have completely turned off on one display) or on my "less expensive" display, some of the goofy extra "digital image processing" features it does (to a analog signal coming in off component inputs) - I also have most of that stuff turned off on it as among other things all that stuff does is add "artifical" qualities to the PQ .. the other display doesn't really do any "goofy" stuff like that ...

Finally got my callback from TW Telesales and retention. At first they tried to tell me that I had to return my Pace box to get the DVR...which I don't want to do because I have two HDTV's. Supposedly their computer system wouldn't allow it. Well, they finally got it figured out and I can pick up my box today in TriCounty. I'll try and do some testing with it tonight and post some feedback.

mchuckp -that sucks about your luck on the waiting list. The whole wait-list sounds like it was completely mismanaged and unorganized. I am going down there tomorrow morning with my pace box and just telling them that I received a call. Since I have had about 5 techs at my house to fix my interference problem, I am also going to claim that one of them said they were going to submit a work order for me to receive the new box because they thought the newer box might cope with the bit errors a little better. All I know is that I will not be leaving until I have the 8300 in hand.

Thanks for the update on the audio - that helps clarify a lot.

Jeff,

Wow, those are very interesting screen shots. I've never seen anything like that on WCPO and if I had, I'd be bitchin up a storm to somebody. I had been getting my HD signal through TWC via the Pioneer 3510 HD box and I hadn't used my DTC100 for quite a while. Now I have the 8000HD box and I haven't seen any images that look like that either, although it really hasn't been long enough for me to judge properly.

I'll watch some HD programming on WCPO tonight with both the DTC100 and the 8000HD and let you know what I find. My only conclusion is that the signal that TWC gets is intact or they are doing some additional processing on it to get the full HD signal.

MBarcus,

Let us know which box you get....

Troy

Originally posted by tbenson81
mchuckp -that sucks about your luck on the waiting list. The whole wait-list sounds like it was completely mismanaged and unorganized. I am going down there tomorrow morning with my pace box and just telling them that I received a call. Since I have had about 5 techs at my house to fix my interference problem, I am also going to claim that one of them said they were going to submit a work order for me to receive the new box because they thought the newer box might cope with the bit errors a little better. All I know is that I will not be leaving until I have the 8300 in hand.

Thanks for the update on the audio - that helps clarify a lot.

Good luck to you. You may be SOL unless you can get a rep on the phone to write you up a work order. The lady at the counter said they have no authorization to write up work orders and they cannot issue equipment without one.

It is pretty frustrating to be there and see them pull up a pallet of 8300's and walk out empty handed.

Yeah - that sucks. Maybe I will just keep calling this weekend until someone writes up a work order for me. I guarantee that there are only a small percentage of people (less than 5%) on the waiting list that even know they are available or even care that much. I am sure that TW will try and make their eager customers happy and somone will have to give in.

I guess this will give me a chance to see what others experiences are with them who just received them to see if there are any problems and if TW ironed out all the kinks.

There is a thread in the programming forum about this very thing and it seems Fox was lousy everywhere. Many agree it didn't seem to be HD at all.

Probably made a few folks hosting HD Super Bowl parties a little nervous. I'm having one and even tho I know there is absolutely no relationship it still would have been nice to see them nail it.

peace . . .



Originally posted by Nitewatchman
We were just discussing that on Lexington thread. I don't know what is going on with that but it certianly isn't represntative of FOX HD(or even the "old Fox WS was better than that), such as for the NFL HD games this year.

it was WAY soft, and I even saw what looked like NTSC composite video artifacts. Same thing happened during some shots back last July when they did HD production of MLB All-star game, but it was distrutibed as Fox WS to most of the affiliates.

Not for Circuit City it isn't. :)

If there was ever a time that a person would make an impulse purchase for $250 it's 4 days before the Super Bowl and you're a credit card swipe away from watching the big game in HD.

Obviously most people walk away from that, but retail is always in the numbers.

Their penance will be in the form of lot of returns afterward which of course happens anyway.

Which is a reminder if anyone is in the buying mood, starting the week after the game (remember they have 30 days to return) is one of the best times for open box deals on TV's and probably now HD tuners. It's really quite amazing how much of that there is some places.

peace . . .



Originally posted by jim tressler
Do any of the TW boxes have an OTA ATSC tuner in them?? if not, then the promotion is a waste of time.. becasue how many of the 15,000 (so they say) hdtv sets have a built in atsc tuner...

Well I am getting an 8300 tonight! After fighting with several people I finally got someone to reason with since I suddenly got boosted by 3 months in my place in line due to someone's screw up. I have a work order to go pick one up tonight.

For those who will be talking to them soon about your pick up. They asked me if I wanted the DVI or HDMI. I said I wanted the HDMI so that I could get the 8300. She said it would be like $24-something. I said I didn't need the cable because I have my own. She said that I had to get it and it was $24. I just said "whatever". From what I am hearing there aren't cables anyway at the pickups. I think she has mistaken some instructions, why would they force us to take a cable and pay for it. I just need to make sure I don't get charged for it.

See ya all, I will post my thoughts on the box after I have a chance to mess around with it for awhile.

Originally posted by mchuckp
Well I am getting an 8300 tonight! After fighting with several people I finally got someone to reason with since I suddenly got boosted by 3 months in my place in line due to someone's screw up. I have a work order to go pick one up tonight.

For those who will be talking to them soon about your pick up. They asked me if I wanted the DVI or HDMI. I said I wanted the HDMI so that I could get the 8300. She said it would be like $24-something. I said I didn't need the cable because I have my own. She said that I had to get it and it was $24. I just said "whatever". From what I am hearing there aren't cables anyway at the pickups. I think she has mistaken some instructions, why would they force us to take a cable and pay for it. I just need to make sure I don't get charged for it.

See ya all, I will post my thoughts on the box after I have a chance to mess around with it for awhile.

Well I'm glad to see it worked out for you. After calling TW every few weeks for nearly a year now on this, I definitely could feel your pain. I'm getting ready to head out from work now to go get mine....it's like Christmas all over again!

Mchuckp

I know that this is a stupid question and could figure it out if I went home and looked but what kind of adapter do I need? A DVI-male to HDMI-Female or DVI-female to HDMI-Male?

Thanks Man

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
My only conclusion is that the signal that TWC gets is intact or they are doing some additional processing on it to get the full HD signal.


I must admit, it's a little frustrating having to go over this stuff again, and again and again, as its all been covered many times previously in this thread.

The bitstream OTA, TW or insight gets is the same. It all comes right from WCPO-DT's MPEGII/HD Encoder. The "signal" is perfectly intact if it's being decoded. As far as The RF signal itself goes(which generally has nothing to do with the "piggybacked" data payolad(MPEGII, etc), OTA that means that one is getting at least about 16db of S/N, I can add over 40db of additional atteunation in the feedline and still am above the threshold required for perfect OTA DTV reception. They can't "process in"/add in more detail than what is there from WCPO-DT, unless Ron's analysis was in error(and I know better than that) it's 1280x360 "unique" pixels in the datastream from WCPO-DT at best.

You'll find reports in this thread from all sorts of folks seeing the issue, including from TW. Most folks provided a list of the equipment they are using, here's a equipment list from a few of the reports from those receiving WCPO-DT via TW cable who are getting the "jaggies" :(720p/1080i denotes native scan rate used with display)

1.Time Warner Cable - Pioneer Voyager HD -Samsung - HLN4365W - 720p
2. Time Warner Cable - TWC Pace Box - Zenith C27v36 - 1080i (DVI)
3. Time Warner Cable - Pioneer Voyager HD -Mitsubishi WS65907 - 1080i (component)
4.Time Warner Cable - Motorola 6208 - Sony RPTV

My HD DVR ramblings:
I now have my 8300HD hooked up and operating.

I believe that my remote doesn't work correctly because my PIP and DVR List buttons don't work. Good thing I can press the list button on the STB.

I only have the the component video set up right now, but the picture looks as good as the Pace box on HD channels. I believe the PQ is worse on SD channels, but this is somewhat expected. I plan on ordering a HDMI to DVI cable from a site I found on Froogle for $11.51 inc shipping. When I get that in I will report in the PQ again.

You have the passthrough option and can select which resolutions you want to watch.

I really like the search feature that will eliminate letter options as you spell something out.

I'm happy to see that I can set up season passes across channels. I am also happy to see that I can prioritize season passes.

The menus are very snappy in comparison to my TiVo.

All for now. Ask any question you wish.

8300 - So you are saying that you have to get up and press the list button manually on the box to get it to come up? Is anyone else having this problem?

Originally posted by tbenson81
8300 - So you are saying that you have to get up and press the list button manually on the box to get it to come up? Is anyone else having this problem?

Yes, the list button on the box. I have a call into TW with their "call back" feature. I am going to find out what's going on.

8300 up and running! No problems yet, I don't anticipate any either. Fingers crossed for the FOX superbowl.

Time Warner doesn't have live help? Damn, I'm never going to complain about Insight again.

Originally posted by hroeder
Time Warner doesn't have live help? Damn, I'm never going to complain about Insight again.
I decided to use their call back feature since the wait time was about 30+ minutes. I could wait on hold if i want.

Well I got my 8300 hooked up. First impressions are good except that the SD quality is considerably poorer on my 57". I'm not having the issue with the buttons on the remote not working either.

One other thing....when I picked up my box around 5pm tonight in Tri County, I asked the counter rep (Wendy) how many people were on the waiting list. She said that she didn't know, but several people had come in today asking about them so she is just giving them out anyway (sorry mchuckp). SO, since they didn't close until 7pm I called a friend of mine and told him that they were giving them out. So he had his wife stop by on her way home for work and CSR Wendy gave her one!!

Originally posted by hroeder
Time Warner doesn't have live help? Damn, I'm never going to complain about Insight again.

They do have live help...but instead of waiting on hold, they give you the option of inputting your phone number and then they call you back (without losing your place in line).

I mostly lurk here on this site but I thought I would chime in that I picked up my 8300HD this evening as well. I'm still trying to figure everything out but it seems great so far. I'm having an issue with the universal remote. I was able to control volume on my reciever but now it the volume control defaults to the TV Sound (which is disabled anyway). I have another universal remote but the capability would be nice.

Just some notes for those interested:

Analog channels do look much worse than my old sa3150 but I'm not complaining.

The menu moves much faster than before.

By the way...when I picked up my box, I asked the obligatory Fox/Super Bowl question. The guy who gave me the box said that on the QT things are looking much better. He could give no details but he said it's still possible. I told him he was ruining a lot of Super Bowl parties. Personally, there is no reason to have people over if I can't show the game in HD. I'm not going to hold my breath but it sounds like there is a slight possibility.

Originally posted by tbenson81
8300 - So you are saying that you have to get up and press the list button manually on the box to get it to come up? Is anyone else having this problem?
I finally got my call back and the CSR had me change programming on my remote and now everything works!!

Instructions:
Press and hold SEL and Mute point remote towards DVR and press 412. The box should turn off and then press mute. After the box turns back on press SEL and now your remote should be reprogrammed!

I am having several issues with my 8300. First off, I cannot get the HDMI port to work HDMI>HDMI or HDMI>DVI. My TV keeps telling me it is not supported.

Has anyone else got the HDMI jack to work? I'm thinking it might be inactive, even though they told us that it was active.

So, after giving up on the HDMI, I hooked it up via Component. It is working but I'm getting all kinds of weird bars on the screen. They are present on all channels. There are a series of small lines running horizontally (maybe 5-6). They are scattered all over the screen and flash on and off. I'm guessing there is something wrong with my box but can anyone think of any other reason I would see this?

Last, is there any sort of menu to get into to set resolutions and such? I can't find anything at all. I thought there was a way to set the outputs. The manaul mentioned that you should turn your TV on and leave the box off. Then turn the box on and let it load. Once it is done you should push GUIDE and INFO at the same time. I tried this and nothing happened.

I can't believe I went through so much effort to get this thing and now I'm having all these problems.

Originally posted by mchuckp
Last, is there any sort of menu to get into to set resolutions and such? I can't find anything at all.

I could not get the Guide and Info button combo to work either, but if you use your remote and press Settings, A, then scroll to find aspect ratio and supported resolutions.

Am I missing something here, or wouldn't it be just easier to switch to HD satellite service with an OTA antenna for your programming needs? Are there any advantages to staying with cable that I'm not aware of?

Originally posted by dusterscott
Am I missing something here, or wouldn't it be just easier to switch to HD satellite service with an OTA antenna for your programming needs? Are there any advantages to staying with cable that I'm not aware of?

I don't want to spend $1000 for an HD DVR and my wife doesn't want yet another antennae on the roof. Plus TWC cable has more HD channels than sattelite (except Voom who is going out of business).

Originally posted by tbenson81
Mchuckp

I know that this is a stupid question and could figure it out if I went home and looked but what kind of adapter do I need? A DVI-male to HDMI-Female or DVI-female to HDMI-Male?

Thanks Man

I believe this is correct. If you have an HDMI cable, you need an HDMI female to DVI male. I have a DVI cable, so I bought a HDMI male to DVI female.

FYI: I have not gotten the HDMI output to work. It says it is not supported. I am waiting for a tech to call me back. I am going to ask about that. I am also getting weird lines that look like barcodes flashing all over my screen. I am also getting some colors jumping in and out at the top of the screen. I'm going to try another set of component cables to see if my cables are bad for some reason but I doubt it. It must be a bad box.

You may want to hold off buying any HDMI or DVI adapters unless someone can post that they actually got it to work. I will post in the morning what I find out from the tech after he calls me back.

How many HD channels do you get with cable? Do you get better picture and sound quality with cable too?

Originally posted by atomicmike
Let me know if you have any success with this. If it works, I may jet home from work tomorrow and try to swing by there before 7 and swindle one out of them.

I'm also not even convinced that the "waiting list" really exists. I know that about six different reps said they would add me, yet every time I call in, they offer to add me again. Who knew a list of names would be so hard to keep track of with computers.

I called.... spoke nicely to the rep and explained what I wanted... blah blah.. nice chatting.. etc.. took care of me right away. So I pick mine up from Eastgate tomorrow. I can tell you that without a doubt if your account it not flagged you will not be able to get a box just by showing up and begging. The counter people don't have the right access to flag accounts for this.

Be nice on the phone and it works wonders.... now just need the superbowl and I will be happy.

Weasel

Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel
I called.... spoke nicely to the rep and explained what I wanted... blah blah.. nice chatting.. etc.. took care of me right away. So I pick mine up from Eastgate tomorrow. I can tell you that without a doubt if your account it not flagged you will not be able to get a box just by showing up and begging. The counter people don't have the right access to flag accounts for this.

Be nice on the phone and it works wonders.... now just need the superbowl and I will be happy.

Weasel

Not entirely true. Although mchuckp tried this morning to just stop in TriCounty, they wouldn't give him one. But this afternoon I picked up mine and the rep told me she had been giving them out today to people that came in and asked about them (apparently she was the 2nd shift because it was 5pm and she just got back from "lunch"...they close at 7pm in TriCounty). So I called my buddy who just called two days ago to get put on the waiting list. He had his wife stop by TriCounty on her way home from work and told her to speak to "Wendy", the rep I talked to. She was able to walk right in and ask for the 8300HD and get one. I have another buddy that is going to try and stop in tomorrow if he gets a chance. I'll let you know if he gets one too (and he isn't on the waiting list).

Originally posted by mchuckp
I mentioned that I was already on the waiting list and that I was put on it back in October. I told them that I heard from someone who got a call already and had just been put on the list in December. I asked them to verify that I am even on the list. They went through it and said that I was added on January 16th. My blood started to boil!!! I proceeded to bitch them out for screwing something up. I was put on the list back in October and have been calling about every two weeks since then to check on the status. So how the hell do I all of a sudden become on the list a few weeks ago.

This is how you get to the end of the list.

When you call they re-add you to the list. If you are already there you are replaced with the current date. I would have to say you were last added to the list on Jan 16th because that is the last time you called.

Sucks huh....

Weasel

Since this thread has become awfully active as of late(not just over the past few days, but over the past several weeks as well), I wonder if we should ask the Mods to create a seperate thread for discussion of Cincinnati area cable issues which aren't directly related to the HD Locals/OTA ?

In the past it's worked great to have everything in "one spot", but It seems to me a little more "organization" might be useful at this point ...

Originally posted by mbarcus
Well I got my 8300 hooked up. First impressions are good except that the SD quality is considerably poorer on my 57".

Good thing that I didn't get this for SD DVRing, I got my TiVo for that. It's been working like a champ tonight with Tilt and Must see TV.