I'll second that: the bug looked good. Too bad there wasn't a game filling that 16:9 space as well. :D

OU vs FL HD looks good on WKRC-DT currently ....

WHIO-DT is running a different HD game(NC st vs charlotte), which is nice although As usual, MPEG2 compression artifacts are a problem from them during bandwidth demanding source material, given their multicast SD subchannel ...

Weasel:

While I don't really like the bug, I will accept it. But, is there a possibility to lower it a bit? Right now on the Villanova v. New Mexico game, it is on the left side, but it could be lower. Also, how much control do you have about the size? Other than that it will be fine, I just don't want it like the analogs version which is way TOO BIG and needs to be moved to the left. For the digital bug, anyway to put WKRC-DT instead of WKRCTV?

WKRC-DT looks great, no artifacts!

Also, any word on the station guide and my Mits? I still dont get anything.


Junk
(I am one very pissed off Hawkeye fan)

Anyone got the time of and know weather or not the UC UK game is going to be HD? I have heard two different times already.

I think the bug was fine as well, not seeing it right now to check the position. It would be nice too if all the graphics for time and score and the shot clock were pushed out some too. I know that is out of your control Weasel.

Hey while I was editing this I just saw the bug. I would agree that it could go down just a little. And while you might not be able to make it 2x2 pixels it would be nice if it was about 25% smaller but the transparency is perfect!

The Cats/Cats game is at 8:10 (or 30 minutes after the Illinois game). No, it will not be in HD. None of the Indy games were/are/will be in HD.

...so are am I hearing there will be no (ZERO) games in HD WKRC-DT? -even championship mon? errhh! -I really having March Madness now ^_^

This might be OT (off-topic, not overtime :) , but has anyone else heard when D* will get there CBS local on Sat in HD? -I know it's on the coasts already...hope they do it while we're young...

chrisdow,

I don't know how you are hearing that, as has been discussed/reported on this very page WKRC-DT has had 2 HD games so far today .... They're using a HD feed from CBS currently ...

WKRC-DT IS the local CBS HD station/affiliate here, that's what D* will carry for Cincinnati market whenever they get the capability to handle local stations and if/when they come to an agreement with WKRC to carry their digital signal ... I don't keep up on that stuff, so I don't know when that might be a possibility ...

The national CBS HD Feed on D* currently(from WCBS-DT NY, I'm not sure what their West coast feed station is - probably KCBS-DT) is only currently legally accessable to those who can get a waiver from their local CBS affiliate ... I think if your local station a CBS O&O station (WKRC is not, it's owned by Clear channel), you should be able to get it as well, at least currently ...

Weasel - The bug is ok.. but I agree with jyd.. if you could lower it a little and maybe take 5-10% off of the size then I think it would be even more acceptable.

OU/Florida kind of looked crappy in HD IMHO - I watched on my friends LCD RTPV - Directv H10 ird.. I thought it was his tv.. then I saw it at my house and it was bad.. sometimes during the camera pans the focus would go south.. I even saw some jaggies !!! All in all, no where near as good as NFL or anything from CBS for that matter. I hope the local bug didnt mess things up!

I am now watching Duke on WKRCDT upconvert and it is getting choppy - almost like it is dropping frames kind of like when you are playing a video game and there is too much action on the screen and the console cant keep up with it..

Jim,

I've seen the occasional loss of focus that occured during the OU/FL game on NFL HD from WKRC-DT last season as well ... Since I allways saw it during NFL on a "press box" camera angle occasionally when they switched to that shot, I thought it might be something at the camera/production end, although come to think of it I don't recall seeing it on WHIO-DT(although I rarely watched them during NFL HD since WKRC-DT HD PQ is better) ....

I didn't notice any "jaggies" beyond normal interlace artifacts during OU game from WKRC-DT, but then again I didn't get a chance to watch much of it ... I am seeing some genrally mild MPEG2 compression artifacts but that's par for the course at ATSC bitrates during such bandwidth demanding programming ....

what I've seen of it, the Current LA-U of L HD game has looked fine, I haven't seen any choppy video/dropped frames/"stuttering video" either, but I've been busy with other things and I haven't had a chance to watch a lot of it, but others here who are watching it on WKRC-DT haven't seen any problems.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
I've seen the occasional loss of focus that occured during the OU/FL game on NFL HD from WKRC-DT last season as well I see it on filmed dramas, as well. Sometimes, it's after a scene change. Sometimes it just seems to happen. It just blurs a tiny bit for a few frames, then settles out. Has to be WKRC-DT as I don't see it, elsewhere, either.

Doc (back in town for a couple days)

Did anyone else notice that during the Lousiville game, they had all the other scores at the top so we could stay updated but they left out the syracuse - vermont ticker and instead had the lousiville score, which was the game we were watching! Was a little annoying considering that it was the best game on of the night. Had to change to the normal CBS to see the updated score. It seemed like it was only the HD feed that had the issue.

Jim - You are definitely right - the Gator game looked pretty bad to me. Didnt even look like HD really, almost like it was just upconverted and in 16:9. The later HD games such as Louisville and Michigan State have looked much better

Guys I have seen this sudden loss of focus and then the gradual build-up to the orginal resolution ever since I moved to West Chester in late summer 2003. I am almost 80% sure that I am going to go with a CM 4228 antenna and use my rotor that is sitting around and put it in the attic so I can get Dayton better, because the current Radio Shack antenna that I found in the house just sucks and some of the elements are broken. Anyone using the 4228 around here, do you all think I will be able to WCPO-DT off of it? If not, I plan on using the large UHF/VHF combo for my VHF still. I wish that WKRC would stop with the bugs on the screen, I remember the day when I wanted to remember what channel I was watching I would hit the "Info" or "Enter" button, wow that was like 3 years ago! Now instead of bugs, how about DD 5.1?

Junk

I sent wkrc an email to them about the (lack of) HD coverage for thursdays games.. within a few hours..

Thank you for your email concerning the NCAA tournament and our HiDef broadcasts, or lack thereof. WKRC-TV this year, as in the past, will mirror in HD those games carried on our NTSC channel. This was a difficult decision as we tried to balance the interests of our viewers with the expectations of our advertisers. WKRC-TV is committed to transmitting as much programming in HD as is available but technological limitations prevent us from multicasting and serving the needs of our advertisers. It is our intention to correct this situation during the coming year so as to eliminate this problem.

As for this year only some of the first round tournament sites were capable of transmitting any games in HD and our assignments yesterday did not come from any HD equipped site. We felt that the match-ups yesterday were of more importance to our viewers than the ability to see a game in HD. That being said, we will review this position before next year's tournament. Going forward, Friday's games, some of Saturday and probably some of Sunday will be available in HD. Beginning with the Sweet 16 CBS will make all games available in HD.

We realize you and many others in the Cincinnati area have significant investments in your HD systems and we are trying to address the concerns raised by our technical limitations. In addition to correcting this problem we are trying to acquire 5.1 Dolby equipment during the coming year. While this does not solve the problem for this year, I hope you will continue to support Local 12 as we work to make your viewing experience more enjoyable.

Sincerely,

Rick Wagar
Dir. of Program Operations
Local 12 WKRC-TV

Jim..

The key word in that letter is "advertisers." I'd hazard a guess their ad contracts specify inclusion on analog and digital. And they don't have the ability to insert ads on digital if it's running separate programming. OR some of their advertisers have HD sets and blow a nut when they don't see the spots they paid for. The good news is that it appears they're working to put in that capability. The bad news is that they're not going to put up a game that's different from the one on analog, which is a shame.

Gotta say, Detroit DirecTV subscribers are getting the best of all worlds. Being an O&O market, they get access to WCBS-DT, which shows HD games regardless of what's on WCBS analog. And local station WWJ-DT is multicasting all of the games (in standard definition) for the early rounds (dropping the multicast when there's a local team in HD).

Of course, this WOULD happen when I have to come back here every weekend to get stuff packed up :(

WKRC-TV is committed to transmitting as much programming in HD as is available but technological limitations prevent us from multicasting and serving the needs of our advertisers. It is our intention to correct this situation during the coming year so as to eliminate this problem.


Originally posted by DrDon
The key word in that letter is "advertisers." I'd hazard a guess their ad contracts specify inclusion on analog and digital. And they don't have the ability to insert ads on digital if it's running separate programming. OR some of their advertisers have HD sets and blow a nut when they don't see the spots they paid for. The good news is that it appears they're working to put in that capability.

Do you think they would use a seperate schedule and insert local ad breaks "seperately" and at different times during a HD game on the DT ? That would be really cool, but seems like it would be quite a task for the MCO's ....

Looking at the above quote from the response Jim received, either that OR they are thinking about adding an SD subchannel with simulcast of analog. Which would be a bad idea IMO as then I expect HD will look like it used too with "webhopper", maybe just a tad better if they get a better HD encoder, unless they transcode to 720p, which is also a bad idea IMO ....

BTW, I may have missed it, but so far I've only seen national ad breaks on WHIO-DT's HD games that have been different than the SD they've aired, with the local ad breaks on the SD games/SD subchannel and analog ...

Jeff..

I believe they could install the same computerized master control system WLWT-DT uses. As it was explained to me, WLWT has twin computers, each one capable of pulling local spots from WLWT's servers. To make it easy to program, they currently have the DT computer set to simulcast the analog during local breaks instead of playing the spots itself.

Doc

Originally posted by jim tressler
OU/Florida kind of looked crappy in HD IMHO - I watched on my friends LCD RTPV - Directv H10 ird.. I thought it was his tv.. then I saw it at my house and it was bad.. sometimes during the camera pans the focus would go south.. I even saw some jaggies !!! All in all, no where near as good as NFL or anything from CBS for that matter. I hope the local bug didnt mess things up!


Except for the WKRC-DT focus issue, I think what you are seeing is coming from the production end .... Some Comments in NCAA Tourney threads at programming area seem to suggest the HD feed from Nashville has had among the worst PQ.

Yesterday during OU/FL HD game, except for increased MPEGII compression artifacts from WHIO-DT, otherwise it looked exactly the same from WHIO-DT/WKRC-DT. Same thing Today so far for T Tech vs Gonzaga. For instance, from Tuscon I notice that the "Arizona" logo(with the cactus and mountains) on the floor looks exactly the same on Both WHIO-DT and WKRC-DT ...

Kudos to WKRC-DT for switching immediately to HD feed for W VA vs Wake forrest after the UC game was over ....

WHIO-DT has same game, but still in SD ...

Great Job WKRC-DT on the flip to HD!

But what about the movement of the Local 12 logo? Could it get lowered a bit. Went to Best Buy today, a lot of people watching the Tex Tech game in HD, which is a good thing. But I noticed on the logo was high on that set too. It was a Mits, so I checked the info, none, then went to the D* HD tuner, 12-1, also no info.

Junk

The logo is cut off on my set. The 1 is almost not visible along with the L which is barley seen. It looks like OCAL 2. This is on my 34" wide screen CRT Display.

12-1 has been missing PSIP info today for some reason.

Originally posted by microbob
The logo is cut off on my set. The 1 is almost not visible along with the L which is barley seen. It looks like OCAL 2. This is on my 34" wide screen CRT Display.

12-1 has been missing PSIP info today for some reason.

PSIP should be ok now.

I will work on the logo as well.

Weasel

The logo just needs to be lowered a bit and should be a little smaller as it is bigger than some of the CBS on screen graphics.

WKRC-DT PSIP has been fine here with Zenith receiver(12-1).

I think the logo is fine, smaller of course would be great although it might be hard to see the "WKRC-TV" on smaller sets. On my el cheapo 26" 16x9 direct view CRT which I have set at about 4.5~5% overscan the entire logo is visable But just barely - I don't recall how exactly I have the H-centering set(it should be fairly close), as there is a geometry(bow) issue I had I couldn't completely get rid of to my satisfaction. The right side of logo looks to be pretty much "flush" with the edge of a 4x3 frame. On my 38" direct View CRT which I have set at about 3.5~4% overscan, there is about 3/4"~1" to left of the bug before the tube hits the "bezel".

For comparision, on the 26" display pretty much 1/2 of the Blue default fox splicer inserted bug is missing on WXIX-DT, A slight bit of the "5" is cut off from the Fox45 WRGT-DT splicer inserted bug, All of WDKY-DT's "Fox56" Splicer inserted bug is present ...

As for the vertical posistion, the way it is it should be out of the way in case a crawl is run at bottom I'd think ....

Just my .02 cents ...

Anyone know whats up with WKRC? I'm getting nothing from them.

I'm getting no signal from WKRC-DT. They were on an off earlier but now nothing. I hope they are back before the Louisville game starts at 4:45PM.

Originally posted by cokebear
Anyone know whats up with WKRC? I'm getting nothing from them.

Lightning must have screwed something up yesterday. We took 2 hits that I know of. It was fine until 10:45 or so and I had it working all nite, but it appears the problem has come back. They are working on getting it fixed as I type. Sorry for the trouble.

Weasel

WKRC-DT is back on now, the signal is a little lower than normal though.

Thanks Weasel

All hail the great Weasel!

WKRC got another movie playing instead of the Killer Shark one that CBS has been talking about. I wouldn't have watched it, so its nice to have something else on, but no HD and UPN 38 hasn't given us a date on when it is going HD. I saw a lot more of the focus problems on WKRC today at both the Worcester and Nashville arenas, so I think it might be WKRC.

But I do like having UPN 38 because it seems that the other local stations can put news and movies on while there programs run long.

Don't know if anyone reads the newspaper, but the article about Cincinnati Bell starting TV service seems interesting. It sounds like they will need to upgrade to fiber optic, unless they plan on going with 1 HD channel and 2 digitals. With 3 channels, I dont know how they will do it, but maybe I didn't read the article right. The article also says that all tvs will have to be HD ready in a couple years, which is kind of false as they only need to be digital.

It sounds like Cincinnati Bell will have a package similar to cable. I would think they would have to in order to be competitive with the cable company. I wonder how many HD channels the will have since it would require higher bandwidth? The article also mentioned that only two thirds of its 600,000 subscribers will be able to get it do to distance issues. Heck, I can't even get Zoomtown where I live and have to rely on my cable company for High speed Internet. I guess that will leave me out of ever getting IPTV.

having just received and installed my HD STB last week I'm new to HDTV. I'm impressed by the quality of the picture but frustrated when trying to view WKRC-DT. What's up with this channel? I'm only about 4 miles from the tower but I have a heck of a time pulling it in.

Is it the station or is it me? I have a VHF/UHF antenna mounted in the attic.

Last post merged in. Welcome to the forum rrs.

Anyone having problems with Time Warner digital channels. Problem started yesterday for me, bad pixelation to no picture. Checked this morning and still not receiving WCPO-DT and WKRC-DT. The analog channels are coming in fine. Also cable modem isn't receiving signal.

interesting article:

http://www.cableworld.com/cgi/cw/show_mag.cgi?pub=cw&mon=032105&file=hidefgamble.htm

For those of you -- like me -- on the "waiting" list from TWC for an HD DVR, call customer service. Suddenly they have them and I was told they don't have time to call all 1000 people on the list. They assumed that we will hear via word of mouth. Nice.

Anyway, I'm picking mine up tommorrow.

Originally posted by rrs
Is it the station or is it me? I have a VHF/UHF antenna mounted in the attic.

Shouldn't be the station, I doubt if it's "you" either. They are the highest power DTV station in Cincinnati, transmitting 800KW ERP from near the top of their tower.

Hard to say what the exact issue is that is causing your problems --- Could be multipath, could be too much signal(s)/etc/etc/etc ... You'll probably just have to experiement to find a solution ....

Welcome to AVSforum ...

I wonder what's going on with WLWT's HD feed tonight? Lots of signal cuts during The West Wing and even some portions of it in 16:9 SD. Anyone else experienced this?

Originally posted by mspalacios
I wonder what's going on with WLWT's HD feed tonight? Lots of signal cuts during The West Wing and even some portions of it in 16:9 SD. Anyone else experienced this?

It appeared to be network related. WDTN experienced the same thing.

...who knows about the Left-Wing but did anyone notice how much better Alias looked on WCPO-DT? Does this mean the worst local OTA is getting better?...

I noticed that Alias looked better this week on my set. I looked for the jaggies but I didn't notice them. I hope they can add 5.1 audio soon. They apparently, are working on improving the HD picture.

I ordered a Channel Master 4228 from SolidSignal.com tonite, it should be here on Friday, so I will have all weekend to mess around with it. Now I should be able to get all the Cincinnati and Dayton channels with a turn of the rotor control! If anyone wants a free VHF/UHF Radioshack antenna, its a little bent and one of the elements needs fixing/replacing.

So what is this news I am hearing about WCPO-DT? No 'Jaggies'? I guess I need to start watching ABC again and check this out!

About the focus problem on WKRC-DT, looks like it is a national problem, it involves the HARRIS Encoders or something on that order. Funny thing is HARRIS is the sponsor for March Madness in HD this year! I guess it can be fixed by simply adjusting some settings, so someone from WKRC could maybe check into that, it is being polled in the Programming Forum.

I noticed that Alias was better last night. At the time I contributed it to moving from TimeWarner and going with Voom with an OTA.

When will the NCAA tourney games start showing in HD?

I would have thought the sweet sixteen would be it... I guess they are not showing any until Final Four?

Total bummer!

According to CBS and Harris - all sweet 16, eliete 8 and final four games will be in HD

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5180123#post5180123

"This year’s Sweet Sixteen will be even sweeter in that all 12 games from the four regional sites in Chicago, Albuquerque, Austin and Syracuse will air in HD. In 2004, only one regional site broadcast HD games. "

THANK YOU!!!

I went by Titan TV's schedule and it did not have the HD indicator next to it...

Whew... I was going to actually watch on our SD TV and would have kicked myself if I found out later I could have watched it on my 100" screen of love....

:)

Now does anyone have a link to a CBS announcement of what games are being shown in each area of the US? I looked all over the web for this but I can't find anything. Fox does this for football and it's great.

Jim... This is coming directly from CBS site under their HDTV schedule.

http://www.cbs.com/info/hdtv/index.php

Either I am color blind or the legend is telling me the games are NOT in HDTV...

Anyone have a better source than I?

I'm not that worried :) I think all the Sweet 16 games will be in HD.

Here's the schedule I found on wkrc.com

Thursday March 24th & Friday March 25th Schedules

LAST UPDATE: 3/22/2005 2:19:24 PM


LOCAL 12 Televised Schedule of Games

THURSDAY 3/24/05--------------------------------

7:10pm Washington v Louisville*

9:40pm Texas Tech v West Virginia**


* CBS will also provide coverage of Illinois v WI - Milwaukee
** CBS will also provide coverage of Oklahoma St v Arizona

FRIDAY 3/25/05--------------------------------------

7:10PM Duke v Michigan St.*

9:40PM Kentucky v Utah


* CBS may also provide coverage of Wisconsin v NC State

ordered a Channel Master 4228 from SolidSignal.com tonight, it should be here on Friday

I live in Liberty Twp, and have 4221 in the attic with a 7777 amp that works great. I know I am breaking all kinds of rules but I noticed that I didn't get Cinci stations at all when pointing to Dayton, and no Dayton when pointing to Cinci so I bought a 2nd one and successfully combined them pointing one in each direction. Had them up about a week and haven't seen any signal loss or picture drops. A rotor wasn't for me because I have a HD TiVo. All this because I was sick of WCPO's crappy picture quality and now I hear it is fixed? No jaggies? Just curious because I haven't watched WCPO in a while---I moved all of my season passes to 22-1.

Originally posted by jspicoli
When will the NCAA tourney games start showing in HD?

I would have thought the sweet sixteen would be it... I guess they are not showing any until Final Four?

Total bummer!

There have been at least 4 HD games locally already last weekend. There are 2 tonite. You have been missing out.

Weasel

ALL the games from here on out will be in HD

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/schedules

Plus- 40% of the games in the first 2 rounds were in HD as well.

As far as coverage goes - I am not certain on this -someone may know exactly, but I believe that it is up to the regional affliate to decide what game they want to show. Here in Cincinnati we will see Kentucky, Louisville and Michigan St for sure. However, other affiliates are showing all the games on subchannels so it isnt a coverage issue such as with fox or ABC college football where you must check the coverage map to see what game will be shown in your area.

There will be 4 HD games tonight

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
About the focus problem on WKRC-DT, looks like it is a national problem, it involves the HARRIS Encoders or something on that order. Funny thing is HARRIS is the sponsor for March Madness in HD this year! I guess it can be fixed by simply adjusting some settings, so someone from WKRC could maybe check into that, it is being polled in the Programming Forum.

If you can point me to the correct forum I would be happy to make adjustments to see if it will improve PQ.

If you have my phone number call me tonite if someone posts the adjustments needed since I can't monitor this forum ALL nite long. :)

Weasel

Originally posted by tbenson81
I believe that it is up to the regional affliate to decide what game they want to show. Well, they do get assignments, but they can challenge those. The assigned game runs on the analog channel. What affiliates do with their digital channels is entirely up to them. They can run the same game, run a different game, run just the HD games, multicast, or a mix of all of it. Here in Detroit, the CBS affiliate multicasted the early rounds, dropping the multicast when a local team was in HD. KCBS in LA stuck with an HD game regardless of what was on analog. I didn't see enough of WCBS to know what they did, but they seemed to stick with the assigned game on both analog and digital. It just happens that the assigned games were HD ones all but one time I checked.

Doc

I will be moving the HD bug to the right and download a bit shortly for those that wish to comment on it's location. I will be available to work on the HD bug for the next 3 days. I wil also work on making the bug a bit smaller as well.

WKRC-DT for those the aren't aware is the bug I am speaking of.

Weasel

The bug position looks fine as it's fully visible now. The size could a be a little smaller.

Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel
If you can point me to the correct forum I would be happy to make adjustments to see if it will improve PQ.

If you have my phone number call me tonite if someone posts the adjustments needed since I can't monitor this forum ALL nite long. :)

Weasel

You might have to contact Harris, but you might also want to try sending a PM to AVSforum member Rory Boyce, engineer at KXTV (ABC) ... Here's a relevant post of his concerning the issue, at least with ABC HD :

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3802384#post3802384

Originally posted by haggis444


I live in Liberty Twp, and have 4221 in the attic with a 7777 amp that works great. I know I am breaking all kinds of rules but I noticed that I didn't get Cinci stations at all when pointing to Dayton, and no Dayton when pointing to Cinci so I bought a 2nd one and successfully combined them pointing one in each direction. Had them up about a week and haven't seen any signal loss or picture drops. A rotor wasn't for me because I have a HD TiVo. All this because I was sick of WCPO's crappy picture quality and now I hear it is fixed? No jaggies? Just curious because I haven't watched WCPO in a while---I moved all of my season passes to 22-1.


#1). The Jaggies(around ABC bug at least, I didn't see any jaggies during the portion of Alias I watched last night before switching to WKEF-DT after they finally switched to HD feed), AND the reduced effective resolution is still apparently there on WCPO-DT during ABC HD on both my receivers/sets. Still a BIG difference(for the better - no jaggies around ABC HD bug, the increased resolution/detail/sharpness as compared to HD from WCPO-DT is also very apparent) on WKEF-DT (22.1) Dayton, Including last night during Alias.

I spoke to their DOE a few weeks ago, and he said motorola is going to be doing some work on their encoder(upgrades/calibration/etc) in April, and that they will have a new rack of equipment(all digital, I assume he meant for the analog station as well) from ABC by this fall ... He also said he was still very busy working out the kinks at the "new" station(after the studio move - I think that includes the analog station) and that he expected the signal to be "pristine" by the time Football season starts next fall ...

I did run into this article last week, which talks about Scripps(owns WCPO) DTV/HD plans:

http://www.hoovers.com/free/news/detail.xhtml?ArticleID=NR200503143020.2_85500012251f3c23

I do think the upconverts during the local news DO look very good on WCPO-DT ...... The jaggies/reduced effective resolution problem only seems to be an issue during ABC HD feed ...

#2). Whatever works+gives you solid reception is what is important ... Other than rotor(less convienient) The BEST thing to do however is to use seperate feedlines and a A/B switch(if your receiver doesn't have 2 antenna inputs like the DTC-100 does) before receiver to switch between the antennas. Radio shack has a remote control A/B switch for about 50 bucks. I expect since from your location the Cincy/Dayton stations are just about 180degrees apart, it is mimimizing the "out of phase"/increased multipath effect, since the stations each antenna isn't aimed towards are coming in directly off the back side of each antenna ... Still, consider yourself very lucky if you are getting consistant, solid reception of everything with the antennas combined onto the same feedline with a 2 way splitter ....

weasel - did you move the bug yet? looks the same size and position.. a little smaller would be nice plus a little to left and down a hair.. also - wkrcdt instead of wkrctv would be cool.. all in all, not to bad though!

jim

Weasel:

Here is a quote from Rory Boyce about ABC problems with the Harris Flexicoder.

"NOTE to the people that had the problem with the picture, graphics and all, occasionally go soft.

Your local station may be using a Harris Flexicoder compressor that has an incorrect setting. A problem with these exact symptoms first was noted back when ABC first did basketball a year or two ago. Back then many stations had a problem with the entire picture, graphics and all, going soft when there was a lot of action or camera flashes going off.

The picture would snap to obviously soft then gradually get crisper after a second or two. The problem was not originating with ABC, the network feed did not exhibit the problem, only some local stations on the air. ABC engineering investigated and discovered that the problem was only at stations that used the Harris Flexicoder. There is a Flexicoder setup parameter that allows the unit to automatically reduce the picture resolution if it has more information to code than it can handle at the bit rate it is set for. This much more likely to occur during live action sports than a film based program.

Back then, ABC notified all stations about the problem and the suggested solution was to change the Flexicoder’s configuration to set the filtering parameter to a value that provided the least filtering possible and disabled the automatic function. I do not remember what the suggested setting was but I will contact engineering at ABC Monday and suggest that they re-issue the notice to all stations. We have the NBA finals coming up!"

Rory at
KXTV Sacramento



Now the specific values are not listed, I will keep surfing and hopefully will find them.

I hope WCPO-DT gets there stuff fixed, the Enquirer had a opinion about HDTV and it was about how WXIX-DT offers full HD and DD5.1, while the other major stations don't offer DD5.1.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050324/EDIT0202/503240414

I think it is great that people are writing the paper and maybe the local stations will start to advance HD a little more.

Junk

P.S.-Weasel, the bug looks great, oh wait you made it bigger, just not as big as before, man I thought it would have been nice to keep it small. On the placement, any possibility to move it down and to the left?

wxix can only do dd5.1 as a part of the national feed.. when they insert local commericals its dd2.1 - I believe the uc games were 2.1 as well - but none the less.. they do have a leg up on everyone else.. hopefully that will get worked out later this year


jim

WSTR-DT has been doing 5.1 during the WB prime time schedule since November but had to stop for a few weeks due to a network problem. They are now broadcasting in 5.1 again as Smallville last night sounded great. PBS also occasionally broadcasts in 5.1 also.

Haggis:

Just a quick question about your antennas, do you get WCPO-DT? It is VHF and I have looked at the patterns for the 4228 and it shows about 10dB on Channel 10, so how is your reception on that channel. I can't wait, Now I can have my big VHF/UHF and the new UHF to spin around.

Microbob:

The article was mainly about the BIG 3 (CBS, NBC, ABC) not being DD 5.1, while the smaller stations, like WXIX, WSTR, and WCET are DD 5.1.
Junk

Originally posted by jim tressler
weasel - did you move the bug yet? looks the same size and position.. a little smaller would be nice plus a little to left and down a hair.. also - wkrcdt instead of wkrctv would be cool.. all in all, not to bad though!

jim

Bug has been moved and shrunk.

Better? Worse?

Weasel

Better ... I liked it better in its "orignal" position near left side of screen completely outside of 4x3 area however...

Trinity Broadcasting System gearing up to launching TBN in HD --

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=523852

The HD cat really must be out of the bag ... seems like I recall someone saying not all that long ago TBN would NEVER go HD ....

I wonder how long it will take them, and how long it will be before WKOI-DT improves their facilities : Full power, less directional antenna pattern, HD and/or multicasting/etc ....

Update: A bit OT, but just noticed on FCC site that W61DE(analog TBN translator, Cincinnati) Now has a Construction permit from FCC to move from channel 61 to channel 36.

Jeff..

I would have bet the farm TBN would sublease spectrum or multicast.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Trinity Broadcasting System gearing up to launching TBN in HD --

I wonder how long it will take them, and how long it will be before WKOI-DT improves their facilities : Full power, less directional antenna pattern, HD and/or multicasting/etc ....

I suspect that we haven't seen the last of the WLEX vs. WKOI cage-match. Both stations have elected ch39 for their post-transition DTs.

WKOI-DT has a current 500KW ERP CP from FCC, which was granted in March 2001. The antenna pattern doesn't show a null towards Lexington .... They filed for a CP MOD to lower the antenna height for the CP a bit last summer, it hasn't been approved. WLEX-DT's CP, which was granted last summer is for 475KW ERP with somewhat of a null towards the north ... Since FCC issued both CP's, it's not a problem now for the FCC's interference protection criteria, or presumably for the stations since they both chose 39 in first round of channel elections then it shouldn't be a problem after analog shut off either ...

Although, since neither station is actually on the air at their fully authorized facilities, other than predictions using longely-rice studies/etc, they of course have no "real world" testing as a basis to say it won't be a problem .... As for how much of an actual co-channel interference problems it will turn out to be for viewers: that of course may be a slightly different matter depending upon receiving location/tropo conditions/etc/etc ... There actually are worse 1st round channel election choices which have been made IMO ... For instance, in first round of elections WCPO-DT Cincinnati chose to stay on 10(Interestingly enough they are "protected" from interference from other stations on a primary basis according to the channel election/repakcing rules), but WBNS Columbus elected to move their digital(currently on 21) to 10, their current analog assignment -- If FCC finds an "issue", per the rules WBNS will end up having to protect WCPO-DT, interestingly enough. The currrent situation with WCPO-DT/WBNS 10 I expect is a problem in some circumstances for those between Cincinnati and Columbus, and is also I expect why WCPO-DT has a 16KW ERP Full power facility(in order to protect WBNS analog 10 currently), instead of the 30~60KW ERP DTV allocations that are more common on VHF-HI ...

Anyhow, WKOI-DT 39 is currently running a STA at 17.1KW ERP with antenna pattern that favors only it's community of license, Richmond, IN which is some 30+ Miles NNW of their tower. The STA antenna is mounted 361 FT lower on the tower than their Full power CP allows. I don't think the STA has anything to do with WLEX. It probably has more to do with them getting the digital on the air quickly, and inexpensively in late 2002 while still meeting FCC's reduced COL coverage requirements per their 1st DTV review report and order - after their 6/02 request for a CP extension was denied by FCC .... I believe much the same thing happened with WDKY-DT, and also WSTR-DT, WB Cincinnati .... In WKOI's case(and WSTR for that matter) since they are not a "top 4 affiliate" in market 1-100, I don't think the use it or lose it deadline to cover their analog's service area will take effect until July 2006 ...

Speaking of WSTR-DT 33, personally I question whether they are actually meeting the "real world" COL coverage requirement with their STA, currently. Their antenna is up nice and high, and they put in a great signal up here, however .... The antenna is directional, and according to relative field strength info on their antenna pattern on FCC site, given their 18.1KW ERP STA, it would only send 600 WATTS ERP towards the SE, which is the direction of many Cincinnati viewers .... Compounding this problem I would think is adjacent Channel WCET-DT 34, sending 215KW ERP in most directions, including those directions only getting 600 Watts squirted their way from WSTR-DT ... A quick seat of pants calucation of 3db increase for every 2x increase in power would seem to indicate Thats a difference of about 25~27db or so in signal strength between 2 not-quite co-located facilities on 1st adjacent channels within portions of Community of license(depending upon the exact "boundries" of the City of Cincinnati I suppose), it's actually probably a little more than that if one is close to WCET/WLWT tower, they're going to be a few miles farther away from WSTR tower ....

sorry for going off on that tangent ... anyway ...

Here is WKOI info from FCC's TV query:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=WKOI&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=0&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

Here is WLEX's info from TV query :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=WLEX&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=0&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

weasel - the bug looks pretty good - like the new size.. 2 suggestions.. move it left the width of the "2" in "12" and move it down the height of the bar that contains "Local" in it.. finally wkrcdt instead of wkrctv - if possible.. good work, thanks for allow us to comment!

jim

Originally posted by DrDon
Jeff..

I would have bet the farm TBN would sublease spectrum or multicast.

Me too, at least in the short term ... but, I had a hard time grasping why anyone(it wasn't you) would say "so and so" would NEVER do HD, as IMO I may be being a bit optimistic but I don't think there is a long term future for SD(including digital SD). Except for archival material, for example upconverts of "All in the Family" or anything else that was shot on SD video .... Maybe weather radars/etc ... Why? While I think SD can certianaly "look good", in my experience in most cases, most people who watch even a little HD begin to see SD(even digital SD) as looking "blurry" ... I could be wrong, though. and I think it will have as much to do with 4x3 vs 16x9 displays as it does "HD resolution" .... I'm thinking(hoping anyway) 15-20 years down the road, what we now call "HD" or perhaps in some cases "ED" will just be "regular TV", just as stereo audio and Color NTSC is the "norm" presently ...

Anyhow I don't know what TBN is actually planning HD wise - how they are going to distribute it, the timetable involved/etc as the article doesn't go into much detail ...

TBN has info on their website that indicates they will be expanding their multicasting to 30 markets .... I see WDLI-DT 39 TBN Canton, OH occaisonally via tropo and they've been doing a 4 channel multicast for quite some time.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Better ... I liked it better in its "orignal" position near left side of screen completely outside of 4x3 area however...

Ditto That! I suppose there isn't much overscan on my set 50" hitachi 50v715. The bug is a good 6" from the left and 2" from the bottom of my screen. The size is beter, looks to be about 25% smaller than it was.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
TBN has info on their website that indicates they will be expanding their multicasting to 30 markets .... I see WDLI-DT 39 TBN Canton, OH occaisonally via tropo and they've been doing a 4 channel multicast for quite some time.

Indeed, they have. And to add something to the Channel 39 DT Sweepstakes here...their DT facilities are nowhere near their COL of Canton. Their DT stick is actually in the Akron area, in the same place as WVPX/23 and two or three local radio stations. That's about 25 miles or so from their analog stick in Louisville, northeast of Canton.

It would put the facility further west re: WKOI, but also much further north, so it probably cancels out.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
most people who watch even a little HD begin to see SD(even digital SD) as looking "blurry" Good point. The thought also hit me that it may be the same thing that helped to push FOX to HD: cable carriage. I'm sure TBN wants to be grouped in the same channel set with all the other HD local channels.

Was CBS having bandwith problems last night? Every couple of minutes during both games there was about a 1/2 second of "digital artifacts" on the screen. Havent noticed it until last night

Originally posted by Inundated
Indeed, they have. And to add something to the Channel 39 DT Sweepstakes here...their DT facilities are nowhere near their COL of Canton. Their DT stick is actually in the Akron area, in the same place as WVPX/23 and two or three local radio stations. That's about 25 miles or so from their analog stick in Louisville, northeast of Canton.

It would put the facility further west re: WKOI, but also much further north, so it probably cancels out.

The funny thing is, even though I'm only 12 miles from WKOI/DT stick(azimuth 247deg) -- I probably see WDLI-DT 39(180 miles from me, Azimuth 55deg --- among other stations on 39 via tropo - DT wise, WADL-DT 39, Mt Clemons Michigan is another one I see fairly often) more often than I get a lock on WKOI-DT ... I suspect mostly due to WKOI-DT STA antenna height, directional antenna pattern(they should be sending about 2KW ERP in my direction, which normally should be enough for my distance+hi-gain antenna setup), and, most important I think -- terrain issues(coupled with their antenna height) I have in direction of WKOI. Their analog some 360ft higher on their stick of course just booms in here, but it doesn't take much antenna rotating to easily pretty much null out most of the signal from WKOI-DT ...

Which reminds me ...OT, but Does WOAC 67 "shop at home'(owned by Scripps I beleive) EVER send a ID? Next time I "presumably" see them I'm going to have to reduce overscan to see if they put their ID up above the video frame in those lines that are used for 608 line 21 captions/etc ...

I do see WDLI has application on file with FCC to move their analog 17 to the DT location. Using the coordinates listed for the DT's on FCC site, I see that WDLI-DT is 192.62 miles From WKOI-DT ... WLEX-DT on the other hand is only 100.33 miles from WKOI ... Since with their full power allocations, given the antenna heights involved they'll have at least a 50mile+ "radius"(more or less) 41dbu contour/coverage area - you can see where there might be consistant co-channel issues involving WLEX-DT/WKOI-DT in areas of Northern KY ... I suppose WLEX-DT's slight null in their antenna pattern to the North will help a bit, as will the use of directional receive antennas, hopefully with a decent F/B ratio ....

A list of some other "short" distances between co-channel stations in the area - In parentheses are their DTV 1st round channel election choices, where applicable :

WCPO-DT 10(10) Cincinnati and WBNS 10(10) Columbus are 97.82 Miles apart.
WOIO-DT 10(10) Cleveland and WBNS 10(10) Columbus are 122.25 miles apart.
WPTO-DT 28(28) Oxford(transmits from WXIX fox Cincinnati stick currently) and WTTE 28(NCA with WSYX-DT either 28 or 36 as 2nd choice - 36 is their current DT assignment) are 98.92 miles apart.
WPTO 14(28) Oxford and WCMH-DT 14(14) Columbus are 96.27 miles apart.
WCET-DT 34(34) Cincinnati and WOSU 34(38) Columbus are 111.17 Miles apart. WBQC-CA 38 Cincinnati is also about 111 miles from WOSU-DT 38(38) ...
WLEX 18(39) Lexington, KY and WBDT-DT 18(26) Dayton are 114.87 Miles apart.
WBDT 26(26) Dayton, OH and WLKY-DT 26(26) Louisville, KY are 127 miles apart.
WHIO-DT 41(41) and WDRB 41(49) are 128 miles apart.
WCPO 9(10) Cincinnati and WISH-DT 9(9) Indianapolis are 103.22 miles apart
WXIN-DT 45(45) Indy and WRGT 45(45) Dayton are 103.54 Miles apart.
WBQC-CA 38 Cincinnati and WKMR 38(15) Morehead, KY are 88 miles apart.
WBQC-CA 38 Cincinnati and WKMJ-DT 38(38) Louisville are 89 miles apart.


There are more in the area within 90~130 miles of each other, but I got tired of looking them up. Thank goodness for directional receive antennas for those in between markets ....

In some of the above cases, currently there are nulls in the transmitting antenna patterns .... For instance, WHIO-DT has a null towards WDRB, WBQC-CA and WKMR's antenna patterns protect each other -- In other cases, it seems the DT involved has been allocated less power for their full power allocation than one might expect ... as mentioned earlier, WCPO-DT 10 at 16KW ERP(non DA, WBNS 10 is Non DA at 316 KW analog "peak" ERP) - WOIO-DT 10 is at a whopping 3.5KW ERP full power, not sure what all is involved there besides WBNS10 factor ... Another one is WBDT-DT at a max 35KW ERP, I expect at least to some extent to protect WLEX 18 ....

Right now, in most cases it's nearby analog/DTV co-channel stations, and I expect DTV to DTV co-channel interference issues are going to be more of a problem, especially since ATSC/our recievers have a "built in" NTSC rejection filter ... The FCC says DTV to DTV interference is a 2db penalty as compared NTSC/NTSC interference but I'm not sure that tells the "whole" story ....

I also think given some of the channel election choices that were made some stations are going to have a difficult time "maximizing" their signal .... If some of the choices aren't found to be a problem for FCC's interference analysis of first round choices, I don't think stations(unless they have low-VHF assignments) will get an oppurtunity to change their choice in 2nd or 3rd rounds ...

Where the commission does find interference conflicts however, If I recall correctly I think the station involved will have an oppurtunity to change their election choice, or let FCC assign them a channel, or take steps to eliminate the problem(which would mean less power, nulls in their antenna pattern/etc) ....

tbenson81

Watch closely to see if the artifacting follows flash photography. That constantly wrecks the picture during hoops. And, the closer to the final game it gets, the more flashes.

I will have to keep on eye on that. Thanks for the info

Tony

During the 1st game (Louisville - WV) this did not occur one time the entire game.

During the 2nd game (Illinois - Arizona) this is happening every 15-20 seconds and is very annoying.

Im not so sure about the flash theory DrDon. You would think it would have at least happened once in the first game and wouldnt be horrible in the 2nd?

tbenson..

I can't vouch for WKRC as my antennas are down. I watched via WCBS and saw plenty of glitches unrelated to flash photography. Never thought to try KCBS as they weren't bad enough to affect my enjoyment of the game. If you saw the same thing I saw, you'd have to blame it on the backhaul, although the glitches I saw were several minutes in between. Don't know what the weather was like in Chicago, but it acted like something was affecting the backhaul. I should probably check the NCAA thread in programming..

Doc

Yeah -it isnt that big of a deal - I noticed it on Friday when kentucky was playing Utah and Michigan State was playing Duke. During those games it wasnt bad at all and only occured a few times over the course of the game. Yesterday it didnt happen at all during Louisville and was horrible during Arizona and Illinois. Who knows- its not that big of a deal. Thanks again for your insight.

tbenson..

I'd hazard a guess that Chicago was a satellite backhaul as opposed to the fiber backhauls they use for football. It's kind of funny, really. Satellite backhauls have been glitch-ridden in the SD world for years. It's just that we're so used to seeing a sparkle here or a missing line there that it's no big deal. But the same amount of missing signal creates a bigger problem with HDTV.

Who knows? Maybe the guy in the remote truck was making margaritas and every time he flipped on the blender, we saw pixellation. :D

last nights MSU / UK (Sorry UK fans you luck ran out!) was pretty good on wkrc - only noticed defocusing a few times.. all in all better than the previous round

Weasel - any plans to tinker with the bug any more?

jim

Originally posted by APorter
I noticed that Alias was better last night. At the time I contributed it to moving from TimeWarner and going with Voom with an OTA.

I looked at WCPO at 720p again tonight and compared it to WXIXDT and ESPNHD and the picture on WCPO seems to be worse than ever. I'm so glad that I changed resolutions to 1080i which seems, for my setup, to have improved the picture, but the amount of pixelation on WCPO is FAR worse than ESPN HD and WXIXDT.

So, I don't think there is any improvement.

ESPN HD? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

How is ESPN HD an oxymoron?

Originally posted by tbenson81
How is ESPN HD an oxymoron?

I think he means that ESPN HD rarely carries HD programming.

ESPN is one of the best HD channels there is. All the good shows, sportcenter, baseball tonight, primetime and all the important sporting events such as sunday night football and baseball are all in HD.

IMO it has one of the worst pictures of all the HD channels though. Do you really consider it to be a true HD picture?

The live sporting events look very good.. the upconvert stuff looks like crap

That's what I'm talking about. Anyways, I shouldn't have even brought it up since it's not a HDTV reception issue.

Sunday Night Football has the best HD picture I have seen on any channel.

Scott..

When it comes to 720p, there are a lot of variables. There may very well be differences from cable company to cable company. On my gear, ESPN-HD looks incredible via DirecTV. Last time I saw it on a similar TV to mine, it only looked so-so via Insight cable.

OTOH, for most of us, 720p programming is side-converted by the STB for our 1080i displays. The resulting picture can be different from brand to brand of STB (unless, of course, you have a native 720p display).

Long and short of it: there are so many variables when it comes to PQ that two people living next door to each other can have vastly different experiences viewing the same channel.

Originally posted by jim tressler
last nights MSU / UK (Sorry UK fans you luck ran out!) was pretty good on wkrc - only noticed defocusing a few times.. all in all better than the previous round

Weasel - any plans to tinker with the bug any more?

jim

The bug should be done. It was intended for NCAA coverage only, but things may change. So for now it shouldn't be seen much except for the NCAA games.

Weasel

Unless someone can give me a good reason to move it.

Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel
The bug should be done. It was intended for NCAA coverage only, but things may change. So for now it shouldn't be seen much except for the NCAA games.

Weasel

Unless someone can give me a good reason to move it.

Dang that seems like a lot of work for just the tourney. I think most of us thought it was a permanent addition hence the suggestion to make it WKRC-DT and it was such a nice LITTLE bug too.

my only comments on the bug are the same as before.. I would suggest moving it over (left) the width of the "2" in 12 and down the "thickness" of the bar that contains "Local" - finally change WRKCTV To WKRCDT

just my 2 cents

jim

Originally posted by jim tressler
my only comments on the bug are the same as before.. I would suggest moving it over (left) the width of the "2" in 12 and down the "thickness" of the bar that contains "Local" - finally change WRKCTV To WKRCDT

just my 2 cents

jim

I would echo this as well, not sure about your setup Jim, but as far as I can tell about mine there is no option on my receiver(built in) for overscan so it is out there quite a bit.

cokebear,

It's not the receiver that has overscan, it's the display ... most CRT based displays have a software based service menu with geometry settings(among other things) which can be adjusted. You have to know what you are doing however or you can easily mess things up. For instance, in some cases a user entering the service menu (which usually requires some sort of special "code" input on the remote or front panel controls) will void the warranty. Test patterns should be used, as well as (usually) the service manual. Reducing overscan(when possible) is also one of the things ISF calibrators do.

Many of the newer display technologies(LCD for example) shouldn't have any overscan. It's hard to say how much overscan some 16x9 sets have(or need), but if it's more than 7% overscan it almost might as well be a 4x3 set IMO .... so Keeping all graphics "inside" of 7% overscan area with a 16x9 video signal really should be enough IMO, and I'm OK with everything "inside" of 5% overscan ....

I'm not able to get a lock on them without severe tilling and audio break up. My signal level hasn't changed so apparently its an issue with them. Is anyone else having problems with WSTR-DT tonight?

Thanks Jeff, for the explanation. And may I say that I have no intention of voiding my warranty nor does it seem like I have a need with my LCD projector.

Originally posted by microbob
I'm not able to get a lock on them without severe tilling and audio break up. My signal level hasn't changed so apparently its an issue with them. Is anyone else having problems with WSTR-DT tonight?

Yeah, same here. I've noticed occasional screen data loss/missing pixels/etc from them the past several days but the RF signal has been fine. Looks a lot like what you might get if they were having problems with a sat feed, but since it's not happening on the analog station and was happening during all programming I've noticed, my best guess would be a problem with the STL for the digital station.

Right now, and for the past hour or so(maybe longer) WSTR-DT PSIP is remapping to 64-1(my Zenith box seems to check+update the PSIP from the station everytime you tune to a station) but there is no decodable audio/video streams at all. Just a blank screen and a steady 95% on the signal quality meter ...

1.Does anyone have a ballpark idea of when Directv will offer the Cincinnati local HD channels? Currently, I believe these are only available in a few markets (LA and NY) but are supposed to be rolling out to all markets in between now and 2007. Does anyone have any insight or a timeline for this?

2. Or will another company launch this before Directv?

3. Where does Cincinnati rank market wise in the country?

1. Nope - some have speculated the top 30 markets by the end of 2006
2. Voom probably wont be around and neither Voom or Echostar have announced plans for new hd birds like dave has
3. #33 - see below

I appreciate it.

WSTR-DT is no go at my house, had to watch Seinfeld on analog last night!

WSTR-DT is back on here after being off all morning. I had to watch Blue Collar on fuzzy analog last night. They need to GIT R DONE and Fix whatever the problem is. :)

tbenson..

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html

Rank DMA TV Households % of U.S.
33 Cincinnati 883,230 0.806

everyone ok? its been quiet here the past few days..

NCAA looked good last night!! Nice job weasel - I think I only noticed 1 or 2 harris flexcoder issues. my comments on the hd bug still stand though..

jim

Ya, Championship game looked great! No DD still on CBS affiliate - OTA anyway - when's that gonna happen again?
Also, I noticed that Master's thru D* on Thurs & Fri will be on in HiDef on channel UHD! That's a first for the 1st 2 rounds, I think...it's usually on USA in Standard Def - can your cable do that? :p

PS: I know this is WAY OT but has anyone got rid of there home-phone line & replace it with either cell-phone only or VoIP? I've been thinking I could reduce my overhead & stopped getting 'ripped' CBell...is there a local forum dedicated to that?

Chris,

I went with Packet 8 voip--$19.95/mo. unlimited to U.S. and Canada. If you want further details, PM me.

Paul

Chrisdow..

In previous years, the first and second rounds were available in HD to CBS affiliates (WKRC-DT carried it), even though the coverage was branded USA. I would guess, since NBC has UHD, that won't happen, this year.

As for VoIP, I'm currently using Vonage as part of an endorsement deal on my show. PM me, as well, if there's anything I can tell you.

Doc

I was acutally a little disappointed with the championship game. It seemed that it had the most problems of any game since the elite 8.

1. There was some issue with the audio - couldnt really pinpoint, but it was dropping out for a split second every now and then and there was a lot of crackling in the background.

2. Out of all the games, they forget to swtich the HD feed back on after a commercial and we are stuck watching standard def for almost 3 minutes.

3. The picture quality however was impeccable throughout.

-Maybe OTA was fine, but there seemed to be a lot of glitches through TW

Tony

chris: you have pm regarding phone service.

I would have to give WKRC a B+ for March Madness this year. They had most games in HD, but not all, no DD5.1(Something that would have given them an A), and I noticed the Harris flexicoder problem with losing focus a lot. Oh well there is always next year!

Has anyone heard about WBQC-DT? Summer is around the corner, but I haven't even heard what channel they are planning on using. If WBQC switched to digital, I would watch it much more often, instead I will continue to watch the stations that are digital.

I am also looking into switching to a VOiP, but I have noticed that my DSL speed has gone from 2,600 kbps to 870 kbps now. I think my problem is coming from a new wire that was put in the ground this winter. How fast is RoadRunner these days? I have heard that their speed is reliable, then I have heard it is not!

Road Runner is 5 MB Downstream

This is for basic service

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
I am also looking into switching to a VOiP, but I have noticed that my DSL speed has gone from 2,600 kbps to 870 kbps now. I think my problem is coming from a new wire that was put in the ground this winter. How fast is RoadRunner these days? I have heard that their speed is reliable, then I have heard it is not!

You should give them a call about that, it may be nothing more than a missed setting in their routers but then again if it's SBC good luck getting in touch with an actual technician. My SBC is only 1500/384 but they are running an internet special 1 year for $19.99 a month.

As far as the tourney goes I have nothing to compare it to directly because I didn't watch any of the Bearcat games this year and my tv is new but there was a lot of things being out of focus for whatever reason. But hey any HD at all is just icing on the digital cake.

rr is 5mb down now?? nice.. unfortunatly I am stuck with Cincinnati Bell as adlephia in my area has still not upgraded to powerlink :(

Yeah, RR pretty much upgraded the entire country from 3mb to 5mb in January.

Rumor has it that Zoomtown is upping their basic DSL bandwidth to 5mbit downstream in the next month.

Hello everyone. I will be moving to Cinci here later this year due to a job promotion, and I have a question about the local OTA digital channels. I will probably be moving to the Beechmont area and I am curious how the OTA signal is in this area. I am not too familiar with the area, so please go easy. :) I have an indoor amplifed indoor vhf/uhf antenna and I am curious what freq, each of the stations are on. I have never been a VHF fan, especially the lower band, eg. Channel 4. FOX here in Lexington is horrible on VHF, and wondering how it is up there in Bearcat country. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks!

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
Has anyone heard about WBQC-DT? Summer is around the corner, but I haven't even heard what channel they are planning on using. If WBQC switched to digital, I would watch it much more often, instead I will continue to watch the stations that are digital.


I had heard they are planning on seeking a 2nd companion channel(during the transistion) for their digital station -- something the LP DTV rules issued last fall by FCC allows.

However, FCC has not yet opened the filing window for stations like WBQC-CA to seek a 2nd companion channel for digital. In the rules it says FCC will open the filing window when the channel election/repacking process for full service stations has "signficantly progressed" to the point where they will have a good idea what the post-transistion open channels in any given area will be.

Who knows what "significantly progressed" means -- after the first round+FCC's interference analysis of first round election choices is complete? After the 2nd or 3rd rounds? By the language about this in the LP DTV report and order, it doesn't seem like they are planning on waiting until the entire channel election/repacking process is over before opening the filing window to allow Class A/LP stations to seek a 2nd digital companion channel -- A open channel has to be available in the area of course for them to be able to get one and things are awfully crowded these days ....

The first round of channel elections has already taken place and the commission should currently be doing interference analysis concerning the full service stations 1st round channel election choices. I think I'd read any interference conflicts that arose were supposed to be addressed around Mid-april or so, with the 2nd round of elections starting in July. For the most part, once everything involving 1st round of elections is complete, we'll probably know where most of the stations in our area will end up,with a couple of exceptions such as what WDKY-DT 4 Lexington will do in later rounds. The entire process is supposed to be completely wrapped up by the end of 2006 ....

Most LP/Class A stations will probably end up doing a flash cut to digital on their analog channel which probably wouldn't make sense for WBQC at this time since they just built a new analog plant for 38, and also since they probably have a good number of analog only OTA viewers.

By the way, the callsign won't be WBQC-DT(That's the suffix for full service digital stations), it will be WBQC-LD (suffix is for Low Power Digital) during the transistion, and WBQC-CD (for Class A digital) after WBQC shuts their analog off and the digital station gets Class A status ....

FCC's Low Power DTV Report and Order(Issued Oct 2004, it became "law" in Jan 05) is available in its entirity here in PDF format:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-04-220A1.pdf

Here in Word Doc format:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-04-220A1.doc

Originally posted by Brinkley
I am curious what freq, each of the stations are on. I have never been a VHF fan, especially the lower band, eg. Channel 4. FOX here in Lexington is horrible on VHF, and wondering how it is up there in Bearcat country. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks!

See the first post of this thread for info on the Cincinnati digital stations, including the actual channels they are transmitting on. WCPO-DT (ABC HD Cincinnati) is on VHF 10(they chose 10 as their first round channel election choice for after the transistion as well), the rest of the Cincinnati(and Dayton) digitals are currently on UHF -- WKRC-DT, (CBS HD cincinnati) currently on 31 made a 1st round Channel election choice of their analog assignment 12, at this point all the other Cincinnati/digital stations made UHF 1st round channel election choices.

Reception should hopefully be fairly easy for you of the Cincinnati stations from the beechmont area (except perhaps WSTR-DT (WB HD) - Which doesn't send much power in that direction currently, which should change by 7/1/2006 when FCC's full power deadline affects them) .. You might even get something from the Dayton stations, although less likely with an indoor setup .... YMMV ....

BTW, WDKY-DT often comes in just great up here(I'm 118 miles from their tower), I see at least a indication of signal from them at almost all times ...

For about a solid month I had WDKY with a solid signal of 80% till my dog decided to make my antenna a chew toy, and ever since then it has been somewhat spotty. Darn dog. It's good to hear though Cinci uses a majority of UHF station channel assignments. It seems VHF is so sensitive. Every time my AC kicks on or I heat up some popcorn in my microwave, macroblocks like crazy. I am just glad FOX finally came through here in Lexington. Now if WLEX (NBC) would get their act together. Thanks for the info Nitewatchman

Originally posted by Brinkley
Hello everyone. I will be moving to Cinci here later this year due to a job promotion, and I have a question about the local OTA digital channels. I will probably be moving to the Beechmont area and I am curious how the OTA signal is in this area. I am not too familiar with the area, so please go easy. :) I have an indoor amplifed indoor vhf/uhf antenna and I am curious what freq, each of the stations are on. I have never been a VHF fan, especially the lower band, eg. Channel 4. FOX here in Lexington is horrible on VHF, and wondering how it is up there in Bearcat country. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks!

Where abouts on Beechmont? The terrain varies quite a bit along that road. I'm out in Amelia, use a small rooftop setup, and I can get everything except wb64. If I face the antenna towards Dayton, I can get everything from there as well.... A slightly bigger rig ( and a rotor) and maybe another few feet in height, and I bet I could get wb64. I can ALMOST get a lock...

Dave

I really have no idea in Beechmont. Im looking into apartments at this point, but I have no idea where to start. What type of community is it? Any info would be appreciated. I don't want to move into a bad part of town or anything with the current setup I have.

Originally posted by Bubster
Rumor has it that Zoomtown is upping their basic DSL bandwidth to 5mbit downstream in the next month.
My Zoomtown is at 5Mbs now vs 3Mbs earlier this year. So they did match it. Fortunatley, I live 600 ft from the c/o. My parents house still can only get 768K at their house.



Anyways, the questions I wanted to post was regarding Cincinnati TWC and the quality of the HD signals. I'm in West Chester, south of the VOA center.
1. Are TWC's local HD signals good, or does OTA look noticeably better?
2. What about DiscHD,TNTHD and the HD tier channels, do they have good PQ?

I would hope TWC has enough bandwidth to not be squeezing the HD signal like a sat provider, but that's why I'm asking.

TWC offered me Digipic1000 for $29.50 a month for a year, a HD DVR receiver for $18/month, the HD tier would be $7/mo. The CSR said they had 3 different HD DRVs. 2 SciAtlantas and 1 Pioneer. No word on which one they'd install, but I guess I could take it to their store and swap it if I got an old one.

I think TWC's HD quality is excellent overall. I can't imagine OTA could be any better. If you are OK with not getting out of town digital stations like Dayton and you can live without the more obscure digitals like ch 64, 25, etc then you'll be very satisfied with TWC.

Picture quality issues which arise from time to time rarely are because of TWC.

Zoomtown has not officially upgraded their speeds. They are still at 3 mbps. However, they have been rolling out test markets at 6 mbs which is even faster than TW. These test markets have been selected based on their trouble dsl service areas. West Chester is the main market for this.

As far as PQ on TW- I agree with Sea Ray, there is not noticable difference from over the air. In fact- TW probably has the advantage over OTA because of their HD DVR. With the avalanche of HD programming now being offered, nobody has time to watch all the shows they want to watch live.

Discovery, INHD and all the other non-affiliate channels look terrific on TW.

Tony

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm going to go ahead and have them install it.

Well my Zoomtown was around 2.6 mbps, but this winter and I now think a new wire was installed down the street, it has dropped down to 870 kbps. This ticks me off because Cincy Bell says it is within their limit. I am not a TW customer and I really don't like cable companies, so I guess I will wait and see what happens.

Also want to add, I noticed that WCET dropped one of its subchannels and is now down 2 three all the time, I haven't watched enough to tell if there is a difference with 3 sds goin at the same time.

Like every other service Cincinnati Bell tests, they probably made a change and then waited for people to call in and complain so that they could troubleshoot. When they initially went to3 mb they just turned everyone up to that even though they knew it would break about 30% of the people. I was one of the broken. I also have the advantage of having worked for Bell and still know a few of their engineers. If you are having problems with your line I would start complaining and keep it up. Although if you read your contract, they only guarantee you something like 256k or some crap like that. You can generally get somewhere with them by being persistent. They are trying to get people up to 6mb so they can have tv/video over your dsl line. I was a beta tester about 5 years ago when they tried this and it was a joke. Their engineers are somewhat confident about the technology (if you can get 6mb), but they are skeptical about actually getting that bandwidth to the home. Let me know if you keep having problem and I can make some inquiries.

After reading the arctile on IPTV that CBT is going test market in October sometime, you know they are going to have to do major upgrades on their equipment to get HDTV over their phone lines. Just my two cents.

While the conversation about internet is being discussed, any recommendations on wireless brand. Currently using netgear 54Mbps wireless router and notebook card. I'm thinking about moving up to 108Mbps and I've had a few problems with netgear so exploring other brands.

Thanks

I'm not the expert but I have never had any problems with Linksys

Why are you going to the 108Mbps? Unless you're moving TREMENDOUS amounts of data internally, I really don't see what the advantage would be.

I have a couple different reason, not sure all valid but they're my reasons.

1. Currently having problems with my Netgear system so looking into buying another brand.
2. Price point. 108mbps can be had for around same price as my 54mbps purchase cost me a year or two ago.
3. Will be buidling HTPC wthin the year and will store my DVD's. Would like to have the option to be able to sit on patio and watch a movie off server without pauses and stutters. If this should work with 54mbps (have read others having problems) then it should difenitely work with 108mbps.
4. Never know what the future holds

By the way did you have any suggestion on brands?

Thanks for the suggestion tbenson81

I really have no idea in Beechmont. Im looking into apartments at this point, but I have no idea where to start. What type of community is it? Any info would be appreciated. I don't want to move into a bad part of town or anything with the current setup I have.

I live just off Beechmont just inside the eastern border of Hamilton county. You shouldn't have any worries about the neighborhood, pretty good communities here.

If you're looking at apartments, you will want to try for a west facing unit as all the Cincy stations come from the west out here. A good indoor antenna will probably get you everything except wb64 as mentioned. I have a DB4 from Antennas Direct that I have not mounted outside yet. My hope is that I'll pull in wb64 when I get it up on the chimney. And may experiment pointing it north for the Dayton channels.

After reading the arctile on IPTV that CBT is going test market in October sometime, you know they are going to have to do major upgrades on their equipment to get HDTV over their phone lines.

I think I'd have to agree with this. I've never been able to get 3mbs, only about 2mbs. And I'd have to say we're only about 1 to 1.5 miles from the CO. Of course I believe we have always had a bad line. Have lost dial tone a couple times. Funny thing was that the DSL stayed up the one time. Would make a good argument for voip. Last repair guy said there had been a cut in the line by the street and the splint went bad. We replaced it, but I have to believe that might be source of my speed problems.

I hope they will have an employee preview for IPTV as the wife works there. I'll be sure to let you guys know. We were one of the firsts to have zoomtown as they had an employee trial for a couple of months before launch.

Rob

By the way did you have any suggestion on brands?

My personal opinion is that the 108Mbps products are all hype. Speed on these wireless products is so distance and obstruction related, even with the 54Mbps stuff you have to right next to router to get those speeds. As I type this I'm about 10 feet away from my 54 Mbps router with line of sight and only get 18 to 24 Mbps. You will notice that Linksys has never had a 108Mbps product. They do have a "speedboost" product wich they claim about a 35% increase in speed if you use their wireless adapter. I would suggest that if you need faster speeds than 802.11g wait for the WiMAX stuff.

Rob

Hey guys...

I am in the process of building an MCE (Microsoft Media Center Edition).
So far I got a dual tuner Hauppauge WinTV-PVR500-MCE and a single tuner Fusion 3 HDTV card. On the PC I can either have a DVI AGP card or VGA/HD15/RGB AGP card which will need to output to the TV. The problem is that my TV is older (Toshiba 65HX81) and doesnt have any DVI connectors but has some available Component Inputs.
I am under assumption that getting a DVI to Comp cable will be waste of $ ($10 for converter + <10 for component cables)since there will be nothing to gain as far as picture goes. Getting RGB(HD15) to Component cable will cost like $10 total and will provide identical picture. ???

Any ideas?

Thanks

More: I think I just figured out that you cannot use normal cables from VGA to Component, you need a converter box of some kind.... so I gues DVI to component would be a cheaper route to go. ...

Do any of you out there have the baseball extra innings package through cable or satellite?

I've had it for a few years now and although admittedly the picture quality varies greatly from game to game overall the picture IMO is not as good as the Reds on FoxSports net. What kind of quality do you get from Extra Innings and why is this picture on the digital tier of TWC worse than the Reds on the analog section?

TW's classification of "digital" doesnt acutally mean anything. It is not true digital picture/sound like Directv, rather just compressed analog channels. So, ultimately the quality is not going to be much better than analog. The Extra Innings package just relays the analog feed from other affiliates and the quality is not going to be better and often time will look "worse" as you have noticed.

The only real things TW has going for it are its HD channels / DVR and Road Runner. Sattelite providers will be superior is all other aspects especially picture/sound quality.

Sports packages look awesome on Directv and crappy on TW because its not really a digital picture

Tony

Hey guys, long time no see.

I'm playing with HTPC and picked up an MDP-130 to try to tune in QAM from TWC.

However, I've only found the following 'clear' QAM channels:

84-1 NBC Ch. 5
85-1 Fox Ch. 19
107-1 CBS Ch. 12

No ABC, no KET, no CET. Anybody know what the deal is?

Interesting. I was debating an MDP130 purchase myself but without all of the networks it's hardly worth it.

I thought the rule was that any free OTA signal that was retransmitted by the cable co had to be unencrypted.

i am in the same boat too! I am contemplating using an old case and a amd for a htpc.. and thats the card I am looking at as adelphia out here will be tw soon - I like to keep my options open! michael - what are the specs on your htpc?

jim

I tend to rotate between Sage, MCE and Myth and I don't currently have a MCE box running so there might be a configuration issue I'm not aware of but can't you just use a component out card. 6600GT's come to mind.

peace . . .


Originally posted by Dimitriz
Hey guys...

I am in the process of building an MCE (Microsoft Media Center Edition).
So far I got a dual tuner Hauppauge WinTV-PVR500-MCE and a single tuner Fusion 3 HDTV card. On the PC I can either have a DVI AGP card or VGA/HD15/RGB AGP card which will need to output to the TV. The problem is that my TV is older (Toshiba 65HX81) and doesnt have any DVI connectors but has some available Component Inputs.
I am under assumption that getting a DVI to Comp cable will be waste of $ ($10 for converter + <10 for component cables)since there will be nothing to gain as far as picture goes. Getting RGB(HD15) to Component cable will cost like $10 total and will provide identical picture. ???

Any ideas?

Thanks

More: I think I just figured out that you cannot use normal cables from VGA to Component, you need a converter box of some kind.... so I gues DVI to component would be a cheaper route to go. ...

Me three, I've been interested in this card as well. Can anyone confirm which channels Insight has in the clear?

I would highly recommend building your box as beefy as possible. While cards that do all their en/decoding in hardware are very very easy on the cpu much of the OSD stuff tends to be loosely written in Java and the more power/memory the better. Like the menu speed of old D* boxes vs new D* boxes. Not to mention the inevitable post processing et al in which case more power= MUCH less time.

peace . . .



Originally posted by jim tressler
i am in the same boat too! I am contemplating using an old case and a amd for a htpc.. and thats the card I am looking at as adelphia out here will be tw soon - I like to keep my options open! michael - what are the specs on your htpc?

jim

I thought the rule was that any free OTA signal that was retransmitted by the cable co had to be unencrypted.

I believe that is the case. Surely somebody else here has tried QAM over TWC and can tell me what channels they are getting?

i am in the same boat too! I am contemplating using an old case and a amd for a htpc.. and thats the card I am looking at as adelphia out here will be tw soon - I like to keep my options open! michael - what are the specs on your htpc?

I'm using an old 800mhz Athlon. I haven't even tried recording, just tuning, which works fine. I don't want to invest until I know I can get all the locals fine via the MyHD. If I can get things working OK, I'm building a new machine, probably a P4 around 3ghz, and SATA drives.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rleist
[B]I live just off Beechmont just inside the eastern border of Hamilton county. You shouldn't have any worries about the neighborhood, pretty good communities here.

I would agree with this - Beechmont from 275 east is all pretty nice communities. When we first moved to Cincinnati 7 years ago, we were in the BrandyChase apartments in Withamsville, just a bit up Beechmont to the East from 275. Was a great community for apartments, and they'll let you hang a dish on your balcony (or at least they did 5 years ago). I am about 8 miles out from where Rleist is - ' no "bad" neighborhoods between us that I am aware of. I will say the house prices seem to drop significantly once you get into Clermont county (east on Beechmont), but other than that, pretty much equal esp for TV reception.

Dave

Originally posted by Michael St. Clair
I believe that is the case. Surely somebody else here has tried QAM over TWC and can tell me what channels they are getting? I have used my FusionHDTV 3 Gold-T to pickup the 256QAM from TWC. AFAIR, I got all of the local channels. They were organized oddly, with PBS showing up as a subchannel of one of the major affiliates. I went back to OTA because the DVICO software was a little buggy still at the time.

False alarm, folks.

TW Cinci does have all of the local DTV stations on unencrypted QAM. ABC and PBS (including the PBS SDTV channels) were all present on subchannels that are not picked up by the MyHD autoscan.

Good News ! Care to share the TWC subchannel info ?

TIA

Originally posted by 0ctane
I have used my FusionHDTV 3 Gold-T to pickup the 256QAM from TWC. AFAIR, I got all of the local channels. They were organized oddly, with PBS showing up as a subchannel of one of the major affiliates. I went back to OTA because the DVICO software was a little buggy still at the time.

I'm using this card on the TWC system in Dayton and I can confirm what you saw. Sometimes you have to look hard because subchannels on QAM don't necessarily track like OTA does. Each video stream exists as a "subchannel" numbered by the RF channel slot on the cable system.

TWC in my area (Fairborn) has most locals (sans NBC and WB affiliates who they apparently don't have carriage rights with), Discovery HD, and TNT HD present as unencrypted QAM. Occasionally one will see "on demand" programs show up unencrypted as well.

The DVICO software use to really stink and crash all the time. It's gotten better since then but still has its foibles. Mine always crashes if you go to channel 94 which appears to be where the "Music Choice" stuff resides. I think it doesn't understand the data its seeing on that channel.

Good News ! Care to share the TWC subchannel info ?

I'll publish a full listing in the next day or two.

Man, .. all the HTPC discussion around here... :)

Welp, I got my MCE box running. Had to get a Leadtek 6200 (http://www.leadtek.com/3d_graphic/winfast_a6200_td_1.html) about $125 from NewEgg. It comes with Component Out/S-Video cable.

Still having some problems with FusionHDTV 3-T though.., on my Intel PC it freezes the app after scanning for channels, however if I use it in my AMD Pc it works just fine. Only tried ATSC so far but I know my TV with QAM picks up about 15+ channels from TWC. (whoerver was asking)

I chose MCE since it will let me play almost any video file from my 1T server without any configuration at all. Just have to get it to play some other weird video extensions or do the dreaded video conversion. :(

Got a quick question for any of you,

Does anyone know how to contact FOX 19 engineering directly? I don't have PSIP info and I am sick of that subchannel and I really want to write them.

Also, I am now watching WHIO-DT for my CBS instead of WKRC, because WHIO dropped their subchannel and have DD5.1. Sorry WKRC, I will switch back when they get DD5.1. Now we need one of the two ABCs to get their acts together.

Junk

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
Got a quick question for any of you,

Does anyone know how to contact FOX 19 engineering directly? I don't have PSIP info and I am sick of that subchannel and I really want to write them.

Also, I am now watching WHIO-DT for my CBS instead of WKRC, because WHIO dropped their subchannel and have DD5.1. Sorry WKRC, I will switch back when they get DD5.1. Now we need one of the two ABCs to get their acts together.

Junk

You got PM.

WLWT-DT has been off the air since this morning. They must be doing some work on the transmitter-tower, since I've noticed that it was off for a brief period yesterday as well. I have also noticed that the analog channel was on low power in the mornings and late nights for a couple of days last week.

I received an email today about the PSIP issues I have been having and the email also added something very interesting. WXIX will be launching a music channel similar to MTV in the 1980s on their subchannel. Hopefully it doesn't destroy HD, otherwise Dayton Fox will get watched much more.

Junk

Interesting, did they give a start date?

I wouldn't think it would degrade FOX HD much since its 720p. WKYT-DT in Lexington runs UPN on its subchannel with CBS but they do downconvert CBS to720p instead of 1080i which won't be the case with Fox.

Originally posted by microbob
WLWT-DT has been off the air since this morning. They must be doing some work on the transmitter-tower, since I've noticed that it was off for a brief period yesterday as well. I have also noticed that the analog channel was on low power in the mornings and late nights for a couple of days last week.
Yeah, I found that out around 10PM last night when I tried to watch The Office on my HDTiVo. It didn't record anything...

:(

I hope its back up soon. I may fire off an email asking them whats going on.

WLWT-DT is currently back on the air ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
WLWT-DT is currently back on the air ...

I still see a blank screen.

Originally posted by Oliwa
I still see a blank screen.

That's because they are back off the air again(at ~8pm).

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
WXIX will be launching a music channel similar to MTV in the 1980s on their subchannel.

It's called "tube" ... Here's some info on it :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5520025#post5520025

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
That's because they are back off the air again(at ~8pm).

Any idea why? Third Watch came on for a few minutes.

Originally posted by Oliwa
Any idea why? Third Watch came on for a few minutes.

I don't know why and haven't had a chance to try to ask them(I've just been tuning to WDTN-DT NBC HD Dayton instead) but, if I were to guess, given that #1). they've been down most of the week and #2). having their analog at low power occasionally the past couple of weeks, #3) given the upcoming "full power" FCC deadlines that will soon be affecting them I'd WAG they might be working on upgrading their digital to full power ... They are currently listed on FCC site as running 512 KW ERP STA, with a 1000KW ERP Full power construction permit ... They are the only "big 4" affiliate in Cincinnati that isn't running at their fully authorized power levels(not to say 512KW ERP isn't a lot, it's still very high power), and per FCC deadlines they have until July 1, 2005 to get to full power or risk losing coverage area ...

Could be wrong though -- they could be having other issues as well ...

In any event, WLWT-DT is back on the air with NBC HD at 10~10:10pm ...

WPTO-DT however has been off the air since the first time I checked today around 8pm ...

It doesn't happen all that often, but it also isn't uncommon to see a station or two(even analogs) go down for a bit when thunderstorms are moving through ... (loss of power, lightning strikes/etc) ....

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
It doesn't happen all that often, but it also isn't uncommon to see a station or two(even analogs) go down for a bit when thunderstorms are moving through ... (loss of power, lightning strikes/etc) ....



WXIX analog went down a few times tonight durng the T-Storm, while 19-1 did not.

wcpo kept going out for me when lightning would flash for a split second.. the signal meter would tank in half and the screen would freeze.. only wcpo... none of the others

jim

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
WLWT-DT is currently back on the air ...



I emailed the engineering Dept. yesterday, but I have not received a reply. I guess they were busy getting the transmitter fixed. I'm glad they are back up.

WCPO-Dt went out more often because it is on the VHF spectrum and lightning seems to have a greater effect on VHF than compared to UHF. I guess we wait and see how the "TUBE" channel goes, hopefully HD doesn't go it the sh!thole because of it. Still don't have the PSIP issue worked out yet with WXIX. Also noticed that WCET-DT doesn't have its analog copy on its digital channel, just kids, plus, and the other one when their not doing HD, seems kinda weird.

Annoyance...

Last 2 weekends CBS golf coverage is listed as 1080i yet it's not. Is this the local station just not bothering to make the switch?

A bit OT, but have noticed that WOTH-LP 25 (The "other channel" - analog only) Has been off air at least since first time I noticed Saturday morning. They were still up last time I checked Friday night.

Originally posted by jim tressler
wcpo kept going out for me when lightning would flash for a split second.. the signal meter would tank in half and the screen would freeze.. only wcpo... none of the others
jim

You might want to improve your antenna setup -- A higher gain more directional antenna setup would give you more signal from the station(assuming proper antenna aiming) and likely much less problem with impulse noise(of which lightning is a natural source - as Junk said, it's more of a problem for VHF(but lo-VHF 2-6 especially) and lower frequencies than the higher frequencies of UHF -- You'll hear it as "static crashes" on AM broadcast band .... I would imagine even a relatively low-performance antenna such as a small/medium size VHF/UHF combo mounted on the roof --- such as say --- RS VU90 or CM3016 would likely do much better for you in this regard at your location than the "coat hanger" sensar I believe you are using, it would also be a good idea because of co-channel interference issues you might experience at times between WCPO-DT and WBNS 10 Columbus ....

Not to say you'll never see a dropout due to a lightning strike no matter how good the antenna is, I've seen a whopping TWO (both strangely enough in Spring 2002) dropouts on WCPO-DT here , both due to very nearby lightning strikes ...

Originally posted by Junkyard Dogg

I guess we wait and see how the "TUBE" channel goes, hopefully HD doesn't go it the sh!thole because of it.


The way the FOX "HD" splicer system works, it shouldn't be a problem and if anything it should be the PQ of "tube" that may suffer at times should FOX HD need more bits ..... I think it's probably likely that some other Raycomm stations that pick up "tube", especially those running HD at 1080i from other networks will likely run into some HD PQ/MPEG2 compression artifact problems however ....

BTW, WRGT-DT Dayton ran a SD subchannel(simulcast of analog) alongside Fox HD up until Jan or so, and it wasn't a problem for HD PQ .... The SD PQ on the SD sub did suffer from compression artifacts however during bandwidth demanding portions of NFL HD football games/etc ...

For that matter, waaay back when WCPO-DT was running "jaggie free" ABC HD at 720p, their weather channel wasn't a problem either(at least to my eyes, things were a bit different waaay waaay back when they used to transcode ABC HD to 1080i), even though the actual MPEG2 encoding process for ABC HD happens at WCPO-DT's encoder instead of at the network level with the stream "spliced in" without a decoding/re-encoding process as is the case with all FOX HD affiliates.

Originally posted by Junkyard Dogg

Also noticed that WCET-DT doesn't have its analog copy on its digital channel, just kids, plus, and the other one when their not doing HD, seems kinda weird.


Yeah, I've noticed that occasionally as of late - that is weird. Sometimes over the past several weeks the simulcast of analog 48 is still there on 48-2(such as currently when they are in HD mode), sometimes it isn't(such as earlier today when the first program service available was 48-3 - PBS Kids). I suspect it may be some sort of PSIP related issue they may not even be fully aware of.

Originally posted by Bubster


Annoyance...

Last 2 weekends CBS golf coverage is listed as 1080i yet it's not. Is this the local station just not bothering to make the switch?


It's not a local issue, CBS didn't provide it in HD. The HD listing, such as on TitanTV was wrong. More info here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=532453

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
I guess we wait and see how the "TUBE" channel goes, hopefully HD doesn't go in the hole because of it.

If memory serves, Fox and ABC both chose 720P in part because of sports, but also because it requires slightly less bandwidth and thus plays with multicasting easier. So long as they keep the audio together, the picture can be crap on a music video channel. Honestly, as I only watch Fox during football season, getting a subchannel I might actually watch is welcome.

<rant>I know multicasting gets bashed alot here, but when done right, e.g. PBS, we get great childrens programming and news during the day and acceptable HD at prime time. As an OTA-only viewer, I appreciate the selection. I do like the high-quality HD programs, but when there is nothing on but cops, doctors, lawyers, sitcoms, "reality", or man-eating locusts, a few extra channels are nice. I'd watch shows in 480i B&W and mono if they are decent! network programming just sucks, and it's no better on cable or DBS, which is why I refuse to pay for them. Every once in a while I think about building a HDTV capable HTPC, but remind myself that there isn't anything worth recording -- let alone worth a few hundred to record.</rant>

I feel much better now.

Originally posted by psm0110
<rant>I know multicasting gets bashed alot here, but when done right, e.g. PBS, we get great childrens programming and news during the day and acceptable HD at prime time.</rant>

I would hardly classify the brand of "HD" that WPTO/WPTD/WCET put out as "acceptable".

Originally posted by TL2000
Like every other service Cincinnati Bell tests, they probably made a change and then waited for people to call in and complain so that they could troubleshoot. When they initially went to3 mb they just turned everyone up to that even though they knew it would break about 30% of the people. I was one of the broken. I also have the advantage of having worked for Bell and still know a few of their engineers. If you are having problems with your line I would start complaining and keep it up. Although if you read your contract, they only guarantee you something like 256k or some crap like that. You can generally get somewhere with them by being persistent. They are trying to get people up to 6mb so they can have tv/video over your dsl line. I was a beta tester about 5 years ago when they tried this and it was a joke. Their engineers are somewhat confident about the technology (if you can get 6mb), but they are skeptical about actually getting that bandwidth to the home. Let me know if you keep having problem and I can make some inquiries.

I was a Zoomtown customer for 4 years. When they upped their lines to 3 MB, my connection would go out all the time. I had techs out every few days and they even called in an engineer to check it out. They even put in a dedicated line in my house at their expense. After about 2 months of attempting to figure it out, we finally asked them if they had any other ideas or should I just go to Roadrunner. They told me they couldn't do anything else. It costs me more money but I'm loving the constant connection and 6 MB speed that I get with RR.

We have had very spotty and slow zoomtown at my office, one second, 1.8mbps the next, .325 mbps, not to mention frequent dropouts. We called and they sent out a brand new modem that looked the same as our 4 year old one (leased from them). No help. Ultimately they told us our incoming data was "so fast" our modem was overloaded. Their solution? Lock in our modem at 1.3 mbps. What a crock.

RR at home over a wireless gets regular 3 mbps.

Newbe here. Had DirectTV come out and got their HD Tivo box and an amplified antenna on top of the dish. Getting 5,9,12 & 19 and also 14 pbs from Dayton. Looks great

I am not getting 38,48 52,54 or 64 although they show up on the guide. I plan on going up and adjusting but wanted to know others experiences or perhaps there is an issue with different frequncies or ?

With the President speaking at 8:30 tonight, how is that going to effect primetime TV? (When is Survivor going to air? When is Will and Grace going to air, in HD? etc.)

Noticed that WLWT-DT is back down.
As far as the address, who cares! Either the news will later, or shows will be in the early morning.

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
Noticed that WLWT-DT is back down.




They can't seem to keep their transmitter up full time lately for some reason. They were down all afternoon yesterday as well.

Originally posted by dangerousdavid
Newbe here. Had DirectTV come out and got their HD Tivo box and an amplified antenna on top of the dish. Getting 5,9,12 & 19 and also 14 pbs from Dayton. Looks great

I am not getting 38,48 52,54 or 64 although they show up on the guide. I plan on going up and adjusting but wanted to know others experiences or perhaps there is an issue with different frequncies or ?

What kind of antenna did they give you? I'm up in Middletown using a Winegard antenna for my Cincinnati channels. That's what DirecTV provided me with and it's not bad for what it is. I don't get 52, 54, or 64 but I know I could with a better antenna. You might have better luck with a better quality antenna and mount it a little higher. antennaweb.org is a good resource. I use a Radio Shack antenna for my Dayton OTA channels and get every channel in spite of terrain issues. I wasn't able to get these channels when I aimed the Winegard towards Dayton. Of course the Radio Shack antenna is on a 10' pole too so that helps. Antenna's are reasonably priced so you might consider going to a better antenna. I've thought about getting a better antenna for the Cincinnati channels myself

Newbe here. Had DirectTV come out and got their HD Tivo box and an amplified antenna on top of the dish. Getting 5,9,12 & 19 and also 14 pbs from Dayton. Looks great

I am not getting 38,48 52,54 or 64 although they show up on the guide. I plan on going up and adjusting but wanted to know others experiences or perhaps there is an issue with different frequncies or ?

BTW, I am on the east side of Cincy, Anderson Twonship

Do any of the major networks in Cinci or Dayton broadcast their HD in DD 5.1? I thought I saw a list somwhere, but I can't seem to find it anymore. I have had my HD TiVo for almost a year now, and have yet to hear any of the primetime programming in DD. I know that at least one of the PBS stations has some content, but I really want to hear something on NBC, CBS, ABC, or FOX. Is it the fact that some of the stations are capable, but the national feed doesn't send down the DD bitstream? Maybe I am just not recording the shows that have it (even though almost all of them say HD/DD 5.1 where available). Thanks in advance.

Haggis..

I believe the sticky (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422073) at the top of the Local Reception forum is up-to-date.

Doc

Originally posted by haggis444
Do any of the major networks in Cinci or Dayton broadcast their HD in DD 5.1? I thought I saw a list somwhere, but I can't seem to find it anymore. I have had my HD TiVo for almost a year now, and have yet to hear any of the primetime programming in DD. I know that at least one of the PBS stations has some content, but I really want to hear something on NBC, CBS, ABC, or FOX. Is it the fact that some of the stations are capable, but the national feed doesn't send down the DD bitstream? Maybe I am just not recording the shows that have it (even though almost all of them say HD/DD 5.1 where available). Thanks in advance.

I do not know about the dayton channels, but FOX 19 in cincinnati airs programming in 5.1. I think some of the other stations will say "5.1 where available" on some shows but out local affiliates do not have the equipment to air it as of yet.

Hope this helps.

In Cincinnati, WXIX-DT(Fox), WSTR-DT(WB), WCVN-DT(KET/PBS) and WCET-DT(PBS) offer DD 5.1 when available currently .... In Dayton, WDTN-DT(NBC), WHIO-DT(CBS), WRGT-DT(FOX) and WBDT-DT(WB) offer DD 5.1 when available currently ...

-------------

Couple of notes:

Noticed WPTO-DT/WPTD-DT have been having some problems(breakups/etc) with some(not all) of their program services the past couple of days .... The problems aren't occuring on services(subchannels) that are their SD digital simulcast of WPTO/WPTD analog stations .... looks like what would happen if they aren't getting good signals from a sat or something ...

WCET-DT remains running just 48-3~48-5(remapped) through the day ... 48-2(analog simulcast remapped ch #) is only there when they are in HD mode ... I think this started happening at the time they changed the PID addresses a few weeks ago to conform to the Jan 05 FCC requirement to not have any program streams with address below 0x30, as a few weeks ago DTC-100 with PSIP stuff turned off started seeing their first MPEG2 program stream as 34-3(what is 48-1 remapped for PBS HD channel) instead of 34-1 as it allways was before ...

OT Update: Noticed WOTH-LP 25 analog made it back on air sometime Wednesday, it said on their website they took storm damage last weekend and were going to try to be back on air by end of this week, looks like they made it up earlier ...

Originally posted by DrDon
I believe the sticky (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422073) at the top of the Local Reception forum is up-to-date.


Yes, it's still up to date ... I also generally try to keep the first post of this thread, with info on the Cincinnati stations(including DD 5.1 availability among other things) up to date ...

Originally posted by dangerousdavid
Newbe here. Had DirectTV come out and got their HD Tivo box and an amplified antenna on top of the dish. Getting 5,9,12 & 19 and also 14 pbs from Dayton. Looks great

I am not getting 38,48 52,54 or 64 although they show up on the guide. I plan on going up and adjusting but wanted to know others experiences or perhaps there is an issue with different frequncies or ?

BTW, I am on the east side of Cincy, Anderson Twonship

Welcome to AVSforum .. In addition to dusterscott's fine post, this is going to get a little long in the interest of addressing you comments and questions as completely as possible, but hopefully some of the following info may help you out as well.

14 : WPTO :

14 (WPTO - ThinkTV PBS) transmitter/tower is NOT in Dayton. WPTO-DT 28 Transmits from WXIX tower(Fox 19) in Cincinnati. (Note : the "DT" suffix is the call sign designation for a full service digital TV station) -- You see WPTO-DT 28 program services as channel 14-2~14~6 on your receiver, and showing up as 14.2~6 in D* guide, but only because the actual digital channel #(28 in this case) being used for transmission is being remapped so that the station "appears" to be on the "same channel" as it's analog counterpart - supposedly, they do this to reduce viewer confusion, and to allow stations to keep their existing channel branding ...

Here's where it gets a little strange ... WPTO 14 Analog actually transmits from a tower in Oxford, Ohio. Originally, ThinkTV/WPTO had an agreement to put their digital station on WKOI(TBN's) tower, which is near Oxford. However, this changed before they built out their digital station, and they worked it out with FCC to have their digital station on Fox 19's tower instead.

Now, it is true that ThinkTV's Studios are in Dayton, and they also have a station that actually transmits from Dayton : WPTD 16(analog), digital WPTD-DT 58(remaps to 16-x).

64 - WSTR :

WSTR-DT 33(remaps to 64-1) is currently running a STA(special temporary authority at "low power") WITH a directional antenna pattern which does not squirt much power in your direction. This may have something to do with why you aren't receiving them -- Compounding the issue for you may be first adjacent channel, non-co-located High power operation of WCET-DT 34(remaps to 48-x) -- The receiver must be selective enough to be able to handle a weak signal right next to a strong one .... The latter, of course isn't an issue when WCET-DT goes off air nightly between about 1am~7am or so, so if something changes when WCET is off air, it might tell you at least something ...

52/54 - WKON/WCVN

KET is a statewide network in KY, with the same programming/services on 15 of it's 16 statewide network of transmitters(WKMJ-TV/DT 1 of 2 KET stations in Louisville being a bit different). So, you'll find The exact same program services(programming/channels) on WKON 52/DT 44, Owenton, KY as you will on WCVN 54/DT 24, Covington, KY. WCVN Tower is in Taylor Mill, Just North of I-275. So, all you need to be able to receive is one of those, with WCVN likely being the easiest to recieve from your location.

From your location, however, WCVN(and WKON) are in a quite different direction than the other Cincinnati digital stations, and therefore it is quite possible you will need different antenna aiming for WCVN than for the other Cincinnati stations.

------------------------------------------

48 - WCET/DT 34

I'd think that you really should be getting this one no problem. As noted in earlier posts, they have made some changes concerning their PSIP implementation (see here for info on PSIP : www.psip.org ), I wouldn't think so but I suppose it's possible there may have been some effect on D* receivers, depending upon the specific model's implementation of PSIP and the D* guide info for "channel tuning".

WCET analog and digital are on same tower as WLWT 5/DT 35 BTW.

----------------

38 - WBQC-CA - Analog ONLY - They do not have a digital station yet --

You should also be getting WQBC analog with no, or little problems, it shouldn't even be "snowy" from your location with outdoor rabbit ears ....

WBQC, (and WOTH-LP 25) transmits from WCPO 9's tower, BTW ...

----------------

You didn't mention it, but you should also be getting analog Cincinnati stations WOTH-LP 25("The other channel") and W61DE 61(low power TBN translator - They transmit from a tower not far from WSTR's, which is the "star tower" in Finneytown).

It's hard to say what exact problems that may be causing you not to be able to receive the stations you mention at this point -- It could be numerous issues involved, or a combination of issues ....For instance, Terrain issues can be a particular problem if you are in a low spot and have a nearby hill in direction of transmitters, and the "Sensar" antennas D* install are little more than coat hangars, which can be a problem when either multipath or weak signals(which, if antenna was properly installed shouldn't be an issue from your location unless you have a serious terrain issue) are an issue ... Looking at Cincinnati analog UHF stations 19,25,38,48,61,64 may be a good thing to look at to see if you can detirmine what is going on. Weak signals=Snow(which you shouldn't be getting much of, except perhaps a bit on 38+61), Ghosts=a Multipath problem.

At this point, and especially if analogs 19,38,48 or 64 are snowy --- I'd think you might want to investigate whether or not your antenna for OTA was properly installed. You might want to search this thread for "Sensar", which I believe is the antenna the D* installers installed for you, and, the Sensar is a subject we've covered in excruciating detail here in the past. You might especially want to check out the posts about the amplified version, how the amp in the antenna is powered and what is necessary for a proper install, and for the amp in the antenna to be actually working because it's actually receiving the necessary power along the coax.

It is also possible that the antenna is properly installed, but since you are fairly close to the Cincinnati stations, you could be getting TOO much signal, which could be overloading the preamp in the antenna or the front end of your receiver ... ... If this is a problem, you might see some signs of interference on analog statiions, and with a non-screen muting analog TV(one that shows "snow" on an empty channel instead of a blue or black screen), you might see stations, or a "noisy ugly version of it" showing up on channels they shouldn't be ... Say, WCPO 9 showing up on channel 60/etc ... In some cases, if "overload" is an issue, an attenuator(RS has an adjustable one for about $8) can be useful, however not so much if it's the amp inside the antenna that is getting swamped.

-------

Concerning your question about the frequencies used/etc You can find more detailed info on the Cincinnati Stations in the first post of this thread, and even more detailed info at FCC's TV query, which is here:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

For the most detailed info(links to predicted coverage maps, links to applications the stations have filed with FCC, info on transmitting antenna pattern and other important info on the operating paramaters of the station) on the stations, chose the "detailed info+CDBS links" in the "Output -- Select TV Query or TV List" section at above link.

You can search in numerous ways -- by stations with a given community of license(such as Cincinnati), by station Callsign, Or if you input your location's lat/long coordinates, and do a search by radius(say 104KM for a 65 mile radius from your location), you'll get info on all stations within that distance from your location as well as even the bearings(and reverse bearings) and exact distance to the towers from your location.

Hope some of this helps -- If you want to try to improve your reception and don't want to "mess with it" yourself(which I think may likely involve more than going up on the roof to adjust your current antenna) you might want to try to find a professional antenna installer(one that knows what they are doing, D* doesn't qualify in that area, I don't believe<g>) ...

In Sunday's Enquirer there is a story about WLWT launching a 24 hour weather channel as a subchannel to the digital transmission. NBC is doing this is a number of markets across the US.

I just hope it doesn't effect their HD transmission.

Details are here (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050501/COL/505010305/-1/all)

Originally posted by CincySaint
NBC is doing this is a number of markets across the US.


Yes, it's called "weather Plus" and unfortunetly, from articles I've read the hearst-argyle(owns wlwt) higher ups were a big supporter of it along with NBC .. I had hoped they would be sensible and not implement it in Cincinnati given that we already have a good weather service from WCPO-DT ...(720p+1 SD sub actually being a workable option with MPEG2/ATSC) But, you know how that goes ...

WCMH-DT, NBC Columbus(a NBC O&O station) has had Weather Plus since January. WCPO-DT's weather channel(which is available OTA as well, not just "via cable") is much better, IMO .....

Its a little blurry, but here's a screenshot I took a couple of months ago of Weather plus from WCMH-DT Columbus ... :

Too bad that the new NFL contract doesn't take place this year since ABC is out of the mix!!! We only have to put up with crappy MNF broadcasts for only one more year! Hopefully the BCS subscription will be changed to someone else too.

Originally posted by ktarkington
Too bad that the new NFL contract doesn't take place this year since ABC is out of the mix!!! We only have to put up with crappy MNF broadcasts for only one more year! Hopefully the BCS subscription will be changed to someone else too.

But will it be available OTA or is this going to be another cable monopoly?

Originally posted by ktarkington
Too bad that the new NFL contract doesn't take place this year since ABC is out of the mix!!! We only have to put up with crappy MNF broadcasts for only one more year! Hopefully the BCS subscription will be changed to someone else too.

BCS is moving to Fox with the exception of the Rose Bowl which is staying with ABC.

Originally posted by Paul210
But will it be available OTA or is this going to be another cable monopoly?

It is going to be a trade off. NBC is taking over Sunday Night NFL and ESPN is taking MNF.

Originally posted by ktarkington
Too bad that the new NFL contract doesn't take place this year since ABC is out of the mix!!! We only have to put up with crappy MNF broadcasts for only one more year! Hopefully the BCS subscription will be changed to someone else too.

As of now I agree it would be great to get sports off of WCPO, but not ABC as a whole.

Isn't WCPO getting some kind of equipment upgrade this summer that should fix the picture, give us 5.1 and have a system similar to FOX? Did I dream this or wasn't this mentioned several pages back?

wcpo is supposedly getting things upgraded "sometime" - I take that to mean late summer

Originally posted by terryfoster
It is going to be a trade off. NBC is taking over Sunday Night NFL and ESPN is taking MNF.

Which makes one wonder what the WLWT-DT HD PQ will be like on Sunday Nights if Weather Plus is still around in 06-07 ...

Originally posted by terryfoster

As of now I agree it would be great to get sports off of WCPO, but not ABC as a whole.


Yes, it's not ABC that's the problem. ABC HD PQ, including during MNF HD last year was very good from WKEF-DT, ABC HD Dayton. For that matter, MNF HD was just fine from WCPO-DT in 03-04(WDTN-DT was the Dayton ABC affiliate at that time, had good PQ and DD 5.1 to boot) ... The problem didn't start happening until last summer, after WCPO's Studio move.

Originally posted by jim tressler

wcpo is supposedly getting things upgraded "sometime" - I take that to mean late summer


Yes, Let's hope anway that their upgrades from ABC solve the issue ... They had told me they expected the upgrades from ABC to occur in August, and, they had said by the time MNF began they expected their signal to be "pristine" ...

They also mentioned the possibility they might get a new encoder(not sure when), and, they had said in April Motorla was coming in to calibrate and do some upgrades to their current HD encoder ... I'm not sure if that happened yet, but I have not seen an improvement ... Which reminds me, I need to send their DOE a note, as he had asked me to check out things in April after their encoder upgrades ...

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
Also noticed that WCET-DT doesn't have its analog copy on its digital channel, just kids, plus, and the other one when their not doing HD, seems kinda weird.

Well ... As it turns out I was wrong about this ... I talked to their CE and COO/VP this morning, and and As you describe it is exactly how they want it to be during the day for off air viewers ....

They are now sending a seperate feed to TW cable, which is the same as it has allways been.

OTA, It's the same as it has been during primetime when they are in HD mode:

48.1 - CET HD
48.2 - CET48 Simucast of analog
48-3 - CET Kids

But, during the day OTA, they said they are experimenting with datacasting, and said they have had various public service providers and emergency responders express interest in using some of their digital station's capacity ...

So, they are dropping the SD digital simulcast of WCET 48 during the day, making 3mb/s available for datacasting purposes, they also noted no programming is unavailable to OTA viewers. Of course, OTA viewers will have to use analog 48 if you want to watch CET48 during the day .... meaning from WCET-DT, OTA viewers during the day get :

48.3 - CET Kids
48.4 - CET You
48.5 - CET Plus

------------------------------------

Since PBSKids is available from WPTD-DT during the day, PBS You is usually available from WPTO-DT(and is available via D*+E* public interest channels), CPB/annenburg(which is 95% of the time or more what runs on CETplus it seems) is also available from KET4 during the day, and often from WPTO-DT, seems to me one of those might be a better choice to remove during the day.

However, I think they do deserve at least some credit for thinking of OTA viewers, as my understanding is they made this choice so that OTA viewers would still be able to access all their program services, albeit of course their primary service, CET48 only via analog NTSC reception ....

Personally, I suppose I don't really care other than I'd rather see more HD with higher quality PQ, and if I ever do want to watch CET48, I receive excellent NTSC analog quality from it ....

Of course, I have no idea how permanant this is, and I think it is definitely safe to assume the situation will be different by the time analog shut off occurs ...

Paul210,

It is definitely available over the air, but WCPOs HD signal leave a lot to be desired at this point. If they fix the issues, I have no problem with ABC doing any coverage.

All,

Does anyone know if CBS and FOX have purchased enough equipment to cover all NFL games in HD this year? I heard rumors that the NFL was pushing this. I hope this is the case since the Bengals played on HD 3 times last year and one of them was on WCPO.

For all you D* subscribers out there, a friend of mine passed this on.



I just got off the phone with one of my contacts and I type as I heard it over on Tivocommunity so I'll post it here for you all.

I'm talking to another one of my contacts as I'm typing and was told pretty much what Dan was told that a very very big announement with tons of HD channels will be made in June. I wasn't told after Spaceway 2 launches just that it would occur in June. Here is what I was told were being talked about and please note I'm not saying these are coming just they are being talked about as far as working deals.

Firstly all 21 Voom channels are getting talked about but even more after the E* release.

Other channels that are being talked about are as follows.
HBO HD West
Cinemax HD East and West
Showtime HD West
TMC HD East
Starz HD East and West
InHD 1 & 2 (InDemand is talking with D* and ignore the only on cable logo because it means nothing in the future but is true today because its marketing)

TNT HD
ESPN 2 HD
Scripps HD Networks

Also I'm hearing that D* might be launching their own set of HDTV channels using programming from many of News Corp networks and will also offer the package to any cable and satellite provider who wants them as well.

For all you D* subscribers out there, a friend of mine passed this on.



I just got off the phone with one of my contacts and I type as I heard it over on Tivocommunity so I'll post it here for you all.

I'm talking to another one of my contacts as I'm typing and was told pretty much what Dan was told that a very very big announement with tons of HD channels will be made in June. I wasn't told after Spaceway 2 launches just that it would occur in June. Here is what I was told were being talked about and please note I'm not saying these are coming just they are being talked about as far as working deals.

Firstly all 21 Voom channels are getting talked about but even more after the E* release.

Other channels that are being talked about are as follows.
HBO HD West
Cinemax HD East and West
Showtime HD West
TMC HD East
Starz HD East and West
InHD 1 & 2 (InDemand is talking with D* and ignore the only on cable logo because it means nothing in the future but is true today because its marketing)

TNT HD
ESPN 2 HD
Scripps HD Networks

Also I'm hearing that D* might be launching their own set of HDTV channels using programming from many of News Corp networks and will also offer the package to any cable and satellite provider who wants them as well.

starting in 2006, all games must be in hd - not much has been said about 2005 - i thought I read somewhere that fox will do 6 like last year and cbs will up it to 4.. dont quote me on that.. i think I read it somewhere here on avs

That sticks since the Bengals usually play on CBS. We never get the HD game. I guess if we started winning, we may start getting more HD games

Just got into HDTV. Have an attic mounted UHF antenna. Cannot for the life of me get WCPO. Anyone out east have luck with this? And if so with what antenna/amp configuration?

Thanks

Just got into HDTV. Most channels that antennaweb say I should get I do, but for the life of me I cannot receive WCPO. Anyone out in Eastgate/Batavia area get WCPO well? If so, let me know what antenna. I currently have a long range directional UHF in the attic. Does great on everything but WCPO. Guessing it is because of the VHF signal?

Whoops...sorry, busy server crashed my session, then posted double.

Volley,

I couldn't get WCPO either until I replaced my UHF only with a ch7-69 antenna. Thats your problem. I got the Monster 2 piece 190 antenna from Radio shack and just use the front half of it and removed the ch2-6 portion.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Well ... As it turns out I was wrong about this ... I talked to their CE and COO/VP this morning, and and As you describe it is exactly how they want it to be during the day for off air viewers ....

They are now sending a seperate feed to TW cable, which is the same as it has allways been.

OTA, It's the same as it has been during primetime when they are in HD mode:

48.1 - CET HD
48.2 - CET48 Simucast of analog
48-3 - CET Kids

But, during the day OTA, they said they are experimenting with datacasting, and said they have had various public service providers and emergency responders express interest in using some of their digital station's capacity ...

So, they are dropping the SD digital simulcast of WCET 48 during the day, making 3mb/s available for datacasting purposes, they also noted no programming is unavailable to OTA viewers. Of course, OTA viewers will have to use analog 48 if you want to watch CET48 during the day .... meaning from WCET-DT, OTA viewers during the day get :

48.3 - CET Kids
48.4 - CET You
48.5 - CET Plus

------------------------------------

Since PBSKids is available from WPTD-DT during the day, PBS You is usually available from WPTO-DT(and is available via D*+E* public interest channels), CPB/annenburg(which is 95% of the time or more what runs on CETplus it seems) is also available from KET4 during the day, and often from WPTO-DT, seems to me one of those might be a better choice to remove during the day.

However, I think they do deserve at least some credit for thinking of OTA viewers, as my understanding is they made this choice so that OTA viewers would still be able to access all their program services, albeit of course their primary service, CET48 only via analog NTSC reception ....

Personally, I suppose I don't really care other than I'd rather see more HD with higher quality PQ, and if I ever do want to watch CET48, I receive excellent NTSC analog quality from it ....

Of course, I have no idea how permanant this is, and I think it is definitely safe to assume the situation will be different by the time analog shut off occurs ...

That stinks as my tuner box is digital only. I don't get any of the analogs anymore.

Just noticed that on 5/3/05, WLWT-DT filed with FCC on for a "license to Cover" their full power construction permit ... Which means they are now at full Power (1000KW ERP) ....

also noticed tonight that wlwt now lists wlwt-tv / dt on their logos when they flash it up on the screen

I noticed that WLWT-DT has not been sending program info for the last few weeks.

Has anyone heard if TWC is going to pick up anymore HD channels this year?

We still don't have:
WB (local)
ESPN2 HD
Universal HD
Premium movie channels besides HBO & Showtime East

Originally posted by jim tressler
also noticed tonight that wlwt now lists wlwt-tv / dt on their logos when they flash it up on the screen Legally, they're all supposed to do that. The digital transmitter must be ID'd with the -DT suffix. Until they moved, WCPO was the only local commercial broadcaster complying, since the integrated switcher had the WCPO-DT logo appearing on 10 whenever the analog logo appeared on 9. Up here, they not only all comply, some go a little overboard. The CBS affiliate in particular, which adds in the actual DT channel number on the ID slate. In fact, the analog channel number doesn't appear on the digital bug. It's all "DT-44."

Is WLWT-DT in 5.1 sending out any signal? I've been out of town for a week and my TV is showing no signal. All other DT channels that I receive (9.1, 14.6, 19.1, 64.1) are all fine. I've scanned and there are no new DT signals that I can receive. Any info would be helpful before I venture out on my roof and try start aiming (I would hate to do that, as all other DT channels are showing strong signal).

I'm getting 5-1 no problem.

Originally posted by mchuckp
Has anyone heard if TWC is going to pick up anymore HD channels this year?

We still don't have:
WB (local)
ESPN2 HD
Universal HD
Premium movie channels besides HBO & Showtime East

I send emails to TWC customer service at least once a month if not more requesting those channels. I would suggest to do the same just to bug them. If enough people contact them, maybe it will help. I send emails to customerservice@cinci.rr.com.

Thanks for all of the posts. D*TV gave me a Winegard antenna/ It looks nice and fancy sitting on the pole but I understand it may not be as good as some of the others out there. I did some adjusting and got all of the major stations in the high 80's or 90's but 5.1 now dropped to the 50-70 range which doen't work consistently. I guess I'll try again next weekend. DBH Anderson Township

Originally posted by zekyl
I send emails to TWC customer service at least once a month if not more requesting those channels. I would suggest to do the same just to bug them. If enough people contact them, maybe it will help. I send emails to customerservice@cinci.rr.com.


Exactly the RIGHT thing to do. If they dont get requests for a specific channel to be added they assume nobody wants it = no need to "waste" $ to add it.

david - I am assuming they gave you the sensar - I have it as well as it works fine for me - I live in hamilton township - 23 miles from the towers. look back in the thread and you will find info on it.. they are not the greatest antennas, but work well if your conditions are good (ie.. not more than 25 miles with a clear view to the towers) .. if you can get a small directional - ie.. Channel Master it would work better if you are limited by distance or trees/hills.

jim


Originally posted by dangerousdavid
Thanks for all of the posts. D*TV gave me a Winegard antenna/ It looks nice and fancy sitting on the pole but I understand it may not be as good as some of the others out there. I did some adjusting and got all of the major stations in the high 80's or 90's but 5.1 now dropped to the 50-70 range which doen't work consistently. I guess I'll try again next weekend. DBH Anderson Township

If folks who are using preamps/"amplfied" antennas are having problems since WLWT-DT's power increase, one possibility is that your preamp or front end of receiver is getting overloaded after the power increase. Generally speaking outdoor amplified antennas/preamps are really not a good idea in strong signal areas. While putting an attenuator in line after the preamp isn't going to keep the preamp from overloading, still it might be beneficial in some cases. RS has an adjustable attenuator which can be a good tool ....

While in real terms, we aren't talking about a lot more signal from WLWT-DT(512KW ERP->1000KW ERP = 2x more power, which equals about 2.5db more signal -- about as much as removing a 2 way splitter) -- Keep in mind most of our receivers signal meters tell us little to nothing about actual signal strentgh, better to think of them as signal quality meters - and it might not take much if your preamp was close to overloading in the first place.

Multipath may also be another issue involved -- If multipath is an issue, more signal=more multipath as well ... Although multipath can be very frequency specific, still the analog stations can be a good indication of multipath problems ... For instance, if you are getting a good amount of ghosting(multipath) on the analog stations broadcasting from the same towers, there is a good chance multipath is an issue for you for digital reception as well.

If you are in a strong signal area -- While a coat hanger antenna such as the Winegard "Sensar", or Channel Master "stealthtenna"(CM3010) should provide enough signal from relatively high power stations -- Having "just enough" signal is not the only important factor in achieving reliable reception - And remember, a preamp/amp can't actually increase the amount of signal gain the antenna can actually provide, nor can it increase the amount of signal that is arriving at the antenna from any given station. It can only make up for losses in the feedline/splitting the signal to feed multiple sets/etc, and can lower the overall noise figure of the system(unless of course the preamp/tuner is getting overloaded) ....

For instance, Issues such as Multipath, co-channel interference and even impulse noise(such as Jim's WCPO-DT reception problems during lightning storms) and other interference issues are all important factors for reliable reception. Using a properly aimed fairly directional antenna of conventional design mounted outdoors in a "sweet spot" for reception can be very beneficial. If D* really wanted it's customers to achieve better results with OTA reception for instance, in many circumstances in this area they would be installing non-amplified small-medium size VHF/UHF combo antennas such as RS VU-90, CM3016 or the Winegard PR5646 .... ALL of which are small multielement antennas, all of which would be a much better choice for an antenna(in any circumstance) than either the winegard sensar or the CM "stealthtenna" ...

I also can't understate the importance of placing the antenna in a spot where it can receive "quality" signals from all the stations for which you desire reception ... I'm not talking about proper antenna aiming here ... Moving the antenna laterally to left or right or up or down a few inches can often make a big difference. Since the VHF/UHF wavelentghs we are using for OTA TV/DTV are fairly short, in many locations(especially those with hills or buildings nearby), there are often hotspots and cold spots for good reception which can be found .. This is why a professional installer who knows what they are doing should do tests with a signal meter(even better, a spectrum analyzer for DTV should they be able to afford one and know how to use it) to check for a good spot to put the antenna before installing it .....

With the amplified Sensar and D* installs, I would also be concerned as to whether or not the antenna has been properly installed so that the amplifier inside the antenna is receiving the necessary power along the coax from the AC power supply(~18VAC IF I recall correctly) which is located somewhere indoors(so it can be plugged in). If the Antenna is the amplfied version and the amp in the antenna is not receiving the proper power(it can't be powered from the D* receiver, which sends a variable amount of DC current to the sat dish LNB depending upon what transponder is used), then the antenna won't even work as well if it were the non-amplified Sensar ... Signals will be attenuated at least -20db(probably more) if the amp is unpowered.

Jeff, any other clues? I have a Winegard SS-1000 (not amplified) so I don't think I have the problem you mention above. All other DT I get fine, just WLWT-DT which I used to get perfectly before their upgrade. Did they change the antenna location at all? Hope not...

mspalacios,

According to FCC info they should be using same transmitting antenna which has a non-directional pattern and is located on WLWT tower along with WLWT 5 and WCET/WCET-DT+WGUC FM ...

Could be increased multipath difficulties as mentioned above, other than that I suppouse they could be having some sort of receiver model specific PSIP issue(others with your receiver would likely be reporting it as well however) or were off air at the time you were looking for them(they were down quite a bit presumably while upgrading their transmitter, but I haven't seen them off air for over a week or so).

:
All other DT channels that I receive (9.1, 14.6, 19.1, 64.1) are all fine.


I guess this might be a bit of a clue -- In addition to those and WLWT-DT, You should really also be getting WKRC-DT(12.1), WCET-DT(48.x) and WCVN-DT(54.x) as well.

What do the Cincinnati analog UHF stations(analog 19,25,38,48,54,61,64) look like OTA? They should all be relatively free of snow/ghosting(don't worry if you've got a little snow on 25+61 and maybe 54 as well) .... If you are getting a lot of "snow"(=weak signal), you might want to check your connections -- For simplicity's sake+to minimize insertion loss It's also probably often a good idea to use a seperate coax run for the OTA antenna instead of using diplexors to share the run to the dish/antenna ... If nothing else, a test with a temporary, seperate coax run to antenna will tell you if the run with the diplexors is affecting your reception any ...

If you are getting a good amount of ghosting on the analog channels, multipath may be a problem for you for digital reception as well. If reaiming, or moving antenna to a better spot doesn't fix it, you might need to move to an antenna with better directivity ... Really and truly, The Sensar is not much of an antenna(it's about like a coat hanger), especially so when it comes to multipath difficulties, or weak signals .... I'm not trying to be an a**, as I'm sure the sensar(or a coat hanger or short piece of wire) will "work" for many folks, but it really is not a very good antenna, and although it may work for many folks, it also is NOT going to work for many folks as multipath, or for that matter "dead spots" are very common issues ...

Even a relatively low-performance, inexpensive antenna such as RS VU90 would be a much better choice than the Sensar .... If all that needs to be done is an antenna "swap", it should be a fairly easy job ... Although again, I can't underestimate how much moving the antenna around a little bit(up or down on mast/etc) to find a "sweet spot" for reception can sometimes help ....

Good luck+let us know how it goes ...

mspalacios,

According to FCC info they should be using same transmitting antenna which has a non-directional pattern and is located on WLWT tower along with WLWT 5 and WCET/WCET-DT+WGUC FM ...

Could be increased multipath difficulties as mentioned above. I suppose they could be having some sort of receiver model specific PSIP issue(others with your receiver would likely be reporting it as well however) or were off air at the time you were looking for them(they were down quite a bit presumably while upgrading their transmitter, but I haven't seen them off air for over a week or so).

:
All other DT channels that I receive (9.1, 14.6, 19.1, 64.1) are all fine.


I guess this might be a bit of a clue -- In addition to those and WLWT-DT, You should really also be getting WKRC-DT(12.1), WCET-DT(48.x) and WCVN-DT(54.x) as well.

What do the Cincinnati analog UHF stations(analog 19,25,38,48,54,61,64) look like OTA? They should all be relatively free of snow/ghosting(don't worry if you've got a little snow on 25+61 and maybe 54 as well) .... If you are getting a lot of "snow"(=weak signal), you might want to check your connections -- For simplicity's sake+to minimize insertion loss It's also probably often a good idea to use a seperate coax run for the OTA antenna instead of using diplexors to share the run to the dish/antenna ... If nothing else, a test with a temporary, seperate coax run to antenna will tell you if the run with the diplexors is affecting your reception any ...

If you are getting a good amount of ghosting on the analog channels, multipath may be a problem for you for digital reception as well. If reaiming, or moving antenna to a better spot doesn't fix it, you might need to move to an antenna with better directivity ... Really and truly, The Sensar is not much of an antenna(it's about like a coat hanger), especially so when it comes to multipath difficulties, or weak signals ....

I'm not trying to be an a**, as I'm sure the sensar(or a coat hanger or short piece of wire) will "work" for many folks, but it really is not a very good antenna, and although it may work for many folks, it also is NOT going to work for many folks as multipath, or for that matter "dead spots" for the signal are very common issues, especially when terrain may be an issue ...

Even a relatively low-performance, inexpensive antenna such as RS VU90 would be a much better choice than the Sensar .... If all that needs to be done is an antenna "swap", it should be a fairly easy job ... Although again, I can't underestimate how much moving the antenna around a little bit(up or down on mast/etc) to find a "sweet spot" for reception can sometimes help ....

It wouldn't seem like "overload/intermod" issues should be a problem, but I suppose strange things can happen sometimes ... It is curious that you don't seem to be getting the two digital stations which send out the most power (WLWT-DT 35, WKRC-DT 31), and you are also not getting WCET-DT 34(on 1st adjacent channel to WLWT-DT 35) .... But, you are having no problem with WSTR-DT 33 -Athough WSTR-DT is currently at low power : With it's tower farther North than the others(and therefore likely quite close to your location) who knows what may be going on - Those are the actual channels the stations broadcast on BTW, not their Remapped Channel #'s ....

update: I should add, There are so many possibilites concerning what *may* be effecting your reception on certian channels - everything and more from a bad connection, to a nearby FM transmitter overloading the front-end of receiver(more likely to be a issue on VHF), to multipath difficulties to weak signals due to terrain blockage, to interference from nearby leaky cable TV lines may be issues that could be involved, and in many cases it may be a combination of factors that are involved ....

Which makes its difficult to diagnose reception problems from "afar", and especially with DTV since we can't "see" direct evidence of problems from interference/overload/multipath issues as is the case with analog where such problems show up directly on the screen, which is why seeing what is happening with the analog stations broadcasting off the same towers is still often a very good tool ...

our signal quality meters on our DTV receivers really don't tell us much concerning what might actually be causing any given problem - a low, or non-existant meter reading doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a strong signal present, a high reading doesn't necessarily mean that there IS a strong signal present, and a "bouncing around" meter doesn't tell us whether it's multipath, or interference issues which is causing it to "bounce around" ...

Another tool you could try to see if it helps you diagnose your issues would be to hook up to an indoor antenna and see what you get ....

Anyhow, Good luck, hope some of this helps+let us know how it goes ... hopefully(as is most usually the case I think) there is a simple solution that will cure your problems, but sometimes it's finding that solution that can prove difficult ...

Noticed WKRC-DT has been off air when I've checked today, including currently ... If it's "unplanned", I hope it's nothing too serious ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Noticed WKRC-DT has been off air when I've checked today, including currently ... If it's "unplanned", I hope it's nothing too serious ...

Jeff, All

As part of our FCC re-licensing requirements we are doing maintenance. Taking longer then planned. Things should be much better then before as far as signal quality and signal strength. I don't think we will be done tonite, but we may try to get at least something back up later tonite.

Weasel

Weasel,

Thanks for the update. I've never had any reception problems with WKRC-DT. WSTR and WXIX have been problematic especially now since the trees are in full bloom. I hope to notice improvements in those stations soon.

Thanks for getting WKRC-DT back up in time for CSI.

Thought I'd have some fun tonight and try a seat of pants experiment to see how much extra attenuation I needed to add in feedline to get the signal level down from the locals to the minimum level required for perfect DTV reception ... Wish I had done this and written it down for the old antenna setup (RS VU210+BT preamp) for comparision ...

Now I understand how 1450khz, who is NE of Dayton can pull in the Cincy and Columbus UHF DTV stations from his attic mounted h-stack of CM4221's ....

Any more attenuation added than is listed for the stations below, and I began to get dropouts or lose a lock .... Add about an extra -2db to the below figures, and "blank screen mode" pretty much results(although it seems to still generally be enough for PSIP lock) ...

Cincinnati (27 Miles(WSTR)~39 Miles(WCVN-DT) -(antenna azimuth 188 deg true bearing) :

WLWT-DT 35 = -45db
WKRC-DT 31 = -43db
WCPO-DT 10 = -43db
WPTO-DT 28 = -38db
WCET-DT 34 = -37db
WXIX-DT 29 = -36db
WSTR-DT 33 = -24db
WCVN-DT 24 = -23db


Note: Only checked this with WLWT-DT, but it took -23db of attenuation to get the signal quality meter to start dropping at all from the normal 95~100%.

-------------------

WKOI-DT(12 miles) - Only IF I remove CM0549 combiner and all splitters(I'd guess I'm still getting about 2.5db attenuation from the feedline+F connectors/ground block), I can just barely get reception from them, with some occasional breakups ....

------------------------------

Here are the figures for Dayton(12~14 Miles) with "main" antenna setup aimed at Dayton antenna farm - Antenna azimuth at 42 deg. true bearing) :

WDTN-DT 50 = More than -48db (ran out of stuff to put in line to add any extra attenuation)
WRGT-DT 30 = More than -48db
WKEF-DT 51 = -48db
WPTD-DT 58 = -46db
WHIO-DT 41 = -42db
WBDT-DT 18 = -36db

Dayton with my Dayton antenna, which is CM4228 8 bay bowtie side mounted to tower at 25FT w/mast mount Blonder-Tongue preamp :

WRGT-DT 30 = -45db
WDTN-DT 50 = -36db
WKEF-DT 51 = -34db
WBDT-DT 18 = -30db
WPTD-DT 58 = -26db
WHIO-DT 41 = -23db

-----------

Receiver used: Zenith HDV420

"Main" antenna setup : UHF antenna is Antenna's direct XG91 at 38ft w/Winegard AC-4990 Mast mount preamp, VHF antenna is Winegard PR5030 at 33FT with CM7778 preamp(FM trap engaged) +Notch filters to knock down Dayton analog ch 2+7 in attic - This is about 28FT of RG6 away from VHF antenna .. Also have a Winegard CA-8800 FM/TV band seperator on VHF side before preamp/fm trap so I use it as FM antenna as well ...VHF/UHF is combined in attic with CM0549 VHF/UHF joiner ...

--------------------------------------------------

For the figures, I estimated:

3.5db loss : for the 65FT RG6 run, and the ground block+F connectors and CM0549 combiner (it's probably actually a little more than that but wanted to estimate as conservatively as possible)

On the VHF "main" antenna, I also estimated an extra 3db of insertion loss for the 5 channel traps I'm using to knock down Ch 2+7 visual+audio carriers, and the CA-8800 ..... It's probably also more than that(especially with the F connectors used to connect them), but I'm not sure what the "claimed" insertion loss is on 1 of the channel traps I'm using, so I just estimated .5db insertion loss per trap ...

3db loss for every 2 way splitter in line ....

7db loss for one 4 way splitter I used to add more attenuation ...

To add the most "extra" attenuation -- I used a 10db attenuator that came with my Zenith DTV receiver, as well as Radio Shack variable attenuator(up to 20db attenuation).

Weasel,

I've got a question you can hopefully answer. I'm a fan of Amazing Race and Survivor (yeah, yeah, I know). I've noticed that some weeks WKRC-DT seems to show just the local analog feed while other weeks they seem to show the network upconvert (no local bug). The network upconvert is MUCH sharper than the local analog feed.

My questions: Why the inconsistency? And, why not show the network upconvert every time? It looks a heck of a lot better.

Thanks!

I got a SA 8300HD from TW last weekend and have two questions. There is a CABLE OUT jack on the back, but when I connect it to a VCR CABLE IN, I don't seem to get a signal. Do I have to do something to activate the CABLE OUT on the SA 8300HD? I can't seem to find any way to determine how much space I have left for programs on the 8300. What button combinations will show me that kind of info? Thanks.

CincyKev

Originally posted by CincyKev
I got a SA 8300HD from TW last weekend and have two questions. There is a CABLE OUT jack on the back, but when I connect it to a VCR CABLE IN, I don't seem to get a signal. Do I have to do something to activate the CABLE OUT on the SA 8300HD? I can't seem to find any way to determine how much space I have left for programs on the 8300. What button combinations will show me that kind of info? Thanks.

CincyKev

I don't have that box but have you tried setting the VCR box to either channel 3 or 4? Have you also tried hitting the VCR/TV button on your VCR remote? Most VCRs have a toggle switch in the back to determine whether it operates on channel #3 or #4.

If none of the above helps I suggest you call TWC tech support. Once you finally get a tech they are very helpful and they may need to send someone out. It could be the signal strength is not enough to go to the VCR. I had a problem with their digital cable box outputting only a "freezed' image to my VCR. They determined that I needed an amplified splitter in an area closer to the source and this fixed the problem.

Any news on WKRC-DT's status? CSI finale should be a must see in HD

Originally posted by 6speed
Any news on WKRC-DT's status? CSI finale should be a must see in HD

We are working as fast as possible. Currently we are up but at very low power. Stay tuned.

Weasel

Are they off the air? I haven't gotten a signal from WCET-DT all day. They always put a low power signal here in Grant County KY but it was watchable with few if any breakups in the signal.


I'm getting WKRC-DT fine even though they are running low power.

Originally posted by microbob
Are they off the air? I haven't gotten a signal from WCET-DT all day. They always put a low power signal here in Grant County KY but it was watchable with few if any breakups in the signal.


WCET-DT has been off air today/tonight any time I've checked.

As it sounds like you have experienced, when they are actually on the air with their current 215KW ERP STA and directional antenna pattern that doesn't favor the South, according to FCC engineering info on their STA they would be sending about ~7~9KW ERP towards you .... Their biggest null is at 200degree(true) bearing from their tower - at .193 relative field value=7.7KW ERP .... (.193x.193)x 215,000 watts = 7761.5 watts ERP ...

Their signal is picky this time of year with th UHF/VHF bands opening up in the mornings and evenings as I get interference from WBKI CH34. Most of the time, WCET-DT comes in fine.

Notice that WCET-DT is currently on the air, but they are either not sending any decodable streams or they have a PSIP issue as I'm getting plenty of signal but nothing but a blank screen.

I noticed last night that I couldn't receive CBS or PBS. Fox had occasional annoying audio chirps. I didn't have time to mess with checking out any other channels. Jeff, you may recall that I'm using one of the Sensar antennas for my Cincinnati channels. Are there any issues with any of the Cincinnati channels or do you think the problem is with something obstructing the signals such as tree leaves? I'm about ready to replace the Sensar but wanted to make sure that the recently-noticed reception problems weren't at the broadcasting end first.

Scott,

Well, as already mentioned WCET-DT(one of the 3 PBS stations in Cincinnati area - WCVN-DT runs PBS HD channel 8pm~11pm as well they were fine last night) was off air yesterday/last night and WKRC-DT(CBS) was up at least during prime time last night, but at low power(WKRC-DT is currenty off air BTW) - I didn't have any problems with WKRC-DT last night up here about 5 miles N of downtown Middletown, though.

All,

Just got in, WCET-DT has fixed the PSIP problem they were having earlier .....

Update : Of course, after just posting WKRC-DT was down, next time I looked at 5:27pm, WKRC-DT is on the air ...

Soo, as of the current "moment", out of the 15 DTV stations in Cincinnati+Dayton the only one having problems it seems is WBDT-DT(WB HD Dayton) -- Their PSIP has been hosed since the storms on Friday according to my Zenith Receiver ...

Thanks Jeff. I don't know what was going on last night. I just got home and checked reception and am also getting everything EXCEPT 26-1 out of Dayton and 48-x out of Cincinnati. Perhaps when 12-1 is broadcasting with low power in HD, my little Sensar just isn't able to receive a good enough signal to get a decent picture. It's the first time I've ever had a reception problem with it for Cincinnati channels

We are back up for good at full power. Things may even be better then ever since we are putting out 29 SNR and it had been at about 24 SNR for quite some time.

Weasel

Thanks Weasel. Any plans to broadcast in Dolby 5.1 in the near future?

Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel
We are back up for good at full power. Things may even be better then ever since we are putting out 29 SNR and it had been at about 24 SNR for quite some time.
Weasel

Weasel,

Signal quality appears to be quite a bit better up here NW of Dayton. I previously had problems receiving WKRC-DT, I believe because I have to shoot right through WRGT's tower. The adjacent channel was somewhat overwhelming to my receiver, but not anymore.

Paul

Signal is also stronger south of Cincinnati, Grant County KY. CSI looked great tonight in HD.

WKRC-DT currently multicasting a SD subchannel with "precision doppler 12 radar" ....

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
WKRC-DT currently multicasting a SD subchannel with "precision doppler 12 radar" ....

Jeff,

That didn't take long for you to notice that huh? I only put it up tonite. It's a test that will run for a few days or so.

Weasel

BTW holding a steady 85 on my signal meter in Middletown with a "coathanger"!

Following is probably more than anyone wanted to know, but follows are my WKRC-DT observations concerning their recent signal improvements :

WKRC-DT Signal strenth:

Looks like signal strength wise, I'm getting about the same from WKRC-DT and WLWT-DT now here, which makes sense. The difference between 800KW ERP and 1000KW ERP is only a fraction of a db.

Compared to -43db for WKRC-DT/-45db for WLWT-DT when I checked it a couple of weeks back, I just checked it and can still just get perfect reception(~33% signal quality reading from this receiver) from either WKRC-DT/WLWT-DT with -45db attenuation added to feedline(includes an estimated ~2.5db loss from the ~65FT coax run).

So, it seems a couple of db "better" from WKRC-DT, but it is hard to actually say if there was any change in the noise floor(co-channel interference/any IM present etc) ....

I expect how much extra attenuation I can add between antenna+receiver and still be able to decode the signal involves a variety of factors, including signal strength and signal quality, receive antenna gain("supposedly" 16db on Ch 31 in this case according to manufactuer), preamp gain(29db in this case)/Noise figure, overall noise factor of receiving system(which should be right around ~3db(close to the preamp NF), the Receiver's AGC circut/etc/etc/etc .... Of course, ATSC specs say 15.9db SNR is required for perfect DTV reception, so at least that's somewhat of a "given", and that threshold should be close to the 33% signal quality reading on zenith receiver which is generally required for perfect DTV reception ...(a PSIP lock occurs at about 28~29%) ... And, that ~16db threshold SNR I'd think should also roughly equate to the 41dbu signal contour defined by FCC as a DTV stations coverage area(given a 10db receive antenna at 30FT AGL If I recall correctly, although FCC's contour prediction methodology doesn't take terrain into account) ....

Since I don't have any equipment such as spectrum analyzer, I can't vouch for how "accurate" my readings are, only that it should be fairly accurate in the sense that if I add an attenuator marked "10db attenuator", It should be actually attenuating signals passing through the coax by 10db, a 2 way splitter should be 3db insertion loss/etc/etc, an adustable RS attenuator(to max -20db) should be adding -20db attenuation of knob is fully clockwise/etc/etc .... It would of course be better, and probably produce a bit more accurate estimate of signal strength at this location to take out everything(especially the preamp) between the receiver+antenna except for the coax+a balun+then estimate the antenna's gain and subtract estimated feedline loss, however, as among other things that would also be very inconvienient since it would require removal of rotor, lowering of mast, getting my VHF antenna out of the way/etc/etc to remove mast mount preamp ...

Anyway, also It is taking -18db attenuation before signal quality readings from WKRC-DT start dropping any from 95~100% on Zenith HDV420 receiver.

WKRC-DT Signal Quality:

What has been a more noticable improvement is that prior to their improvements -- for about the past couple of years sometimes, the signal quality meter on Zenith receiver would only show a maximum of about 80%, and sometimes it would show about 80% for a few seconds when first tuning to the station, then afterwards it would go up to 95~100%, and sometimes it would show 95~100%, even when first tuning to WKRC-DT ..... I couldn't quite figure it out, my best guess was that it had to do with the signal being so strong along with what the receiver's AGC was doing. But, Now, it's allways a solid 95~100% so apparently the signal quality improvements at WKRC-DT did the trick.

BTW, With the DTC-100(which is currently out of commission, I can't check it currently), it would show between 76~82 most of the time, except prior to about two years ago, it was allways showing an "88" reading. It seems to like "88" for some reason, that's what it pretty much says for most ofl the Dayton/Cincy stations ... except WLWT-DT, which shows up as 90~94, and WRGT-DT also 90~94, and WCVN-DT usually "82" but sometimes 86~88 ....

possible WKRC-DT channel mask improvement? :

It's a little hard to say/tell but, on ch 32 using a analog, non-screen muting TV and looking at the "snow"(Snow from a strong DTV station appears as a sort of "big" horizontal snow on some analog TV's, either depending upon how AFT is implemented, or NTSC tuner which allows manual "fine tuning") it looks like WKRC-DT may have improved their channel mask a bit ... Can't really check anything on 30 in this regard, because of WRGT-DT 30 Dayton.

Attached is a series of screenshots to demonstrate(with antenna aimed at Cincinnati of course). At upper left shows the "snow" on Ch 32 if I have the tuner set at "-05" offset for ch 32. (Note -05 offset on this tuner seems to usually do the best job with weak signals on nearly all channels). As you can see, It's pretty much "clean" looking ordinary "snow"(The brighter white "band" 1/3 of the way down is a camera "shutter speed"/etc. "artifact") - probably mostly from noise in the front-end of receiver/preamp, but also somewhat from background radiation from the "universe"(you know, the dancing "ants") ... At upper right, shows the snow on Ch 32 with -08 offset on the NTSC tuner ... You probably can't tell much, if any difference via this screenshot, but if you could<g>, in "real life" that was about what "-05" on Ch 32 looked like here before WKRC-DT made their improvements(The slight bit adjacent channel interference/"slop" was more evident when a actual NTSC signal from WLKY 32 Louisville is present).

So, It does seem to be a noticable improvment. The lower pic shows what WKRC-DT's "DT Snow" looks like via with a -17 offset on this NTSC tuner, tuned to ch 32(I wish I knew what the actual "center" freq. was, instead of just -17/etc). Note that with WLWT-DT, on ch 36 it looks pretty much the same with these same offsets, except that I'm currently(as is usually the case) getting a weak and somewhat unstable signal from WTVQ 36(analog), Lexington, which does looks quite "clean" with an offset of "-05" ...

Having come across very little info on it I have allways wondered, when working with strong signals what the 1st adjacent channel situation would be like for weak 1st adjacent channel signals(analog or DTV) if the signal modulation being used was COFDM instead of 8VSB ...

Originally posted by WebHopperWeasel
Jeff,

That didn't take long for you to notice that huh? I only put it up tonite. It's a test that will run for a few days or so.

Weasel

I do a lot of outdoor work, and, although I'm probably in the minority on this(well, maybe except for Hedrick<g>) I'd actually like to have the radar up all the time(just more convienient for me to use the TV radar instead of the net, although the latter is fine too, and I've allways liked WKRC's radar better than the others), but only IF it didn't reduce HD PQ, including during bandwidth demanding programming ...

I know you are just doing it temporarily for testing purposes, but IF it is being considered on a more permanent basis ... if it could be setup with Stat Mux so HD allways gets the priority, to the point of the SD radar being able to drop all the way down to 0 bandwidth usage(without locking something up anyway) during those very short periods during HD sports/other bandwidth demanding sections of programming .... I think it would be great, and it seems to me, weather radar would be one of the very few applications where it wouldn't matter if the screen freezes for a second occasionally when HD needs everything ...

On the other hand, of course setting it up, and devoting what would essentially be your available "oppurtunitstic" bandwidth to a weather radar screen may not be exactly "econmically" wise .... Especially when we already have WCPO-DT doing a multicast SD weather service(with radar), with, apparently weather plus also soon to come from WLWT-DT .... But, don't worry, personally -- I still tune to Hedrick+crew when I want the Cincy weather forcast ...

Jeff,

As usual a great bit of info.

Weasel

NBA Western Conference Game 1 on ABC looks like crap. Far shots which is almost all live action is really bad. I can still see the jaggies on the three point line. Close up shots are good, but again far shots almost to bad to even watch.

WKEF in dayton is not even sending it out in HD..man this sucks

I called the news desk 15 minutes ago, and they still haven't flipped to HD.

Well, there goes my hopes for a non pan & scan version of Star Wars AOTC being shown on FOX.