Interesting, TitanTV is now listing Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD on WCPO-DT. It wasn't when I looked Tuesday night but could this be coming true? I'm not huge fan of these shows but my aging mother sure will get a kick out of it.

Zap2It also lists those two shows in HD on WCPO - Time Warner 909. I'll have to check it this evening

Interesting, TitanTV is now listing Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD on WCPO-DT. It wasn't when I looked Tuesday night but could this be coming true? I'm not huge fan of these shows but my aging mother sure will get a kick out of it.

Well Wheel is not in HD. I have been told if a show is produced in HD then the local station can send it out in HD. Tonight on TW 909 in Cincinnati WCPO is not transmitting in HD. I would be interested to hear if a Dayton station is trans mitting it in HD. We don't get those on Cincinnati TW.

I sur hope they come back up with the HD before Lost.

Perhaps I should mention I posted this because sometime in the last several weeks I saw some info somewhere that those shows were indeed now being produced in HD but it was up to the local stations to implement it. I was just surprised to see those listing so soon. I assumed it would be years before they were actually broadcast by the local stations in HD.

I have been told if a show is produced in HD then the local station can send it out in HD.


They were probably referring to HD from the Networks(ABC, NBC, CBS/etc). Jeopardy+Wheel of Fortune are Syndicated programs and thus are a completely different ball of wax concerning various equipment needed at the station to provide such programs in HD.


I would be interested to hear if a Dayton station is trans mitting it in HD. We don't get those on Cincinnati TW.


No, Dayton stations aren't providing Wheel(WHIO-DT)/Jeopardy(WDTN-DT) in HD yet. Nearest stations I know of that are(at least that's the report I heard a few weeks ago which orignated from folks at WTHR) would be WBNS-DT Columbus, and WTHR-DT Indy.

They were probably referring to HD from the Networks(ABC, NBC, CBS/etc). Jeopardy+Wheel of Fortune are Syndicated programs and thus are a completely different ball of wax concerning various equipment needed at the station to provide such programs in HD.

A little research provide the following. A spokesman at WCPO said they had to purchase and install HD equipment in order to transmit it. That made little sense because they already transmit in HD but further research provided the following.

Syndicated shows are usually transmitted a week at a time so the stations can show them whenever. Most don't have the HD storage space for a weeks worth of several syndicated shows. They need to purchase and install the equipment.

Syndicated shows are usually transmitted a week at a time so the stations can show them whenever. Most don't have the HD storage space for a weeks worth of several syndicated shows. They need to purchase and install the equipment.

And that's what Nitewatchman was referring to.

Folks,

I was told the HD locals are now available for Cincinnati. I have an Oct 18 install scheduled for the new HR20 DVR and the 5LNB dish.

Has anyone else bought/installed the HR20 (or H20) and the new dish yet?

Any D* subscribers out there with the HR20 yet???? How was your install? Is the Cincinnati HD quality acceptable?

My hr20 install (sched. for 10/9) got post-poned to 24th due to out-of-stock boxes...I told them to come over only if the OTA tuner was enabled...

Also, my hr10 box was updated via satellite w/latest software (v6.3) earlier this week = new folder/list options & a LOT zippier speeds...

No Bengal HD sunday!?! :( What's up with that?!?

my damn hr10 hasn't updated yet.. lol.. so is 6.3 that much better? cause 3.x as you know was / is awfull! As far as the hr20 - looks like they are now saying by the end of the year for ota - but I doubut it.. when it first came out it was begining of october, now its end of october and now its by the end of the year.. kinda reminds me of the original release date of the hr 20.. wasnt this thing supposed to be out in 2005? - now we have the beta version, at least they are quick to patch it.. so only time will tell..

My hr20 install (sched. for 10/9) got post-poned to 24th due to out-of-stock boxes...I told them to come over only if the OTA tuner was enabled...

Thanks for the update. Good luck. Outside of the OTA not enabled, you should call D* and demand a more reasonable install date. That is certainly what I will do if Bluegrass misses an over 2 week scheduled install. I have heard of D* telling customers to go out and purchase the HR20 from BB, and they will reimburse. I don't like that option as sometimes D* can not be trusted. :cool:

Are HR20 folks wanting OTA due to PQ, $ or other issues? Just wondering, living and learning by the good info here, and hope to be soon in line for the HR20.

not sure about everyone else. but I will not get an hr20 until ota is active for the simple reason - ota will always be better quality and we will always get channels that . It will be nice to also get other stations like my64 that directv will not carry in hd for a while - if ever.

jim

Are HR20 folks wanting OTA due to PQ, $ or other issues? Just wondering, living and learning by the good info here, and hope to be soon in line for the HR20.

The PQ is indeed better OTA. For me, it would be nice if it was turned on. Of course, I can use the TV's digital tuner in the meantime. It would be nice if I could get it on the STB. One less step for me.

I finally did a rescan of TWC via QAM the other night. Noticed that WKRC wasn't remapped to 12-1, WXIX wasn't remapped to 19-1 and 19-2 (for the TUBE) and I don't think TNT or DISC were remapped either, I seem to remember TNT being mapped to channel 969 on my tv, maybe wrong about TNT and DISC. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this and was wondering where these channels are, I really hate to have to look through every channel to find them.

I finally did a rescan of TWC via QAM the other night. Noticed that WKRC wasn't remapped to 12-1, WXIX wasn't remapped to 19-1 and 19-2 (for the TUBE) and I don't think TNT or DISC were remapped either, I seem to remember TNT being mapped to channel 969 on my tv, maybe wrong about TNT and DISC. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this and was wondering where these channels are, I really hate to have to look through every channel to find them.
I don't understand what you mean by "remapping" on TWC.
On my TWC in Cincinnati I get the following"

WKRC-HD is 912
TNT-HD is 969
Disc-HD is 970
WXIX-HD is 919
WCPO-HD is 909
WLWT-HD is 905

By remapping I mean I'm using the built in tuner on my tv and not the cable box. Thats where the QAM tuner comes in. It's just like an OTA scan using the ATSC tuner but is instead done with cable using the QAM tuner.

This results in a "remapping" of the channels just like the OTA scan does on many tuners so that WKRC shows up as 12-1 etc. etc..

Sorry I wasn't more clear in my previous post.

I need some help with those familiar with Sattelite systems. Currently I am a TWC customer. My condo is prewired - It has the main drop coming into the utility room and then 3 wires run from there to the family room, bedroom and 2nd bedroom.

I would like to get Directv now since we can get locals over HD but I want to get the HD TIVO for the family room and the standard TIVO for the bedroom. It is my understanding that sattelite signals cannot be split like cable and that I would need 2 separate lines run to each of these rooms.

Since I already have one line run to each of the rooms within the walls - would I need a second line run to each of these rooms to get TIVO or is their another way to hook this up?

Thanks for your help!

Tony

I need some help with those familiar with Sattelite systems. Currently I am a TWC customer. My condo is prewired - It has the main drop coming into the utility room and then 3 wires run from there to the family room, bedroom and 2nd bedroom.


Tony

I can't help on your wiring issues but a word of caution. If you are in a condo and haven't done so yet be sure and check with neighbors and the board of directors. Some condo complexes have rules preventing the dish or at the very least have rules about where they can and cannot be mounted. There may even be a requirement to put it in writing to the board and get approval.

None of this may apply in your case but I have seen some people be required to remove their installation and have lost some big money on the deal. Nornmally the outside structure is owned by all owners in common and anything effecting the outside of the structure requires board approval.

Tony - you are correct - each dvr eeds two lines that run from the dish (or multiswitch) directly to the reciever. They can not be split. Supposdely in the future, there will only be a 1 wire requirement, but it is unknown when. Also - Directv does not use tivo anymore.. chances are if you get directv installed new, they will bring you directv branded dvr's. it is possible to still find tivo branded directv recievers at some dealers or ebay. good luck. jim.

ps.. dont worry about your HOA - the FCC SHVA has you covered. They cant stop you from placing a dish on your private common area.


I need some help with those familiar with Sattelite systems. Currently I am a TWC customer. My condo is prewired - It has the main drop coming into the utility room and then 3 wires run from there to the family room, bedroom and 2nd bedroom.

I would like to get Directv now since we can get locals over HD but I want to get the HD TIVO for the family room and the standard TIVO for the bedroom. It is my understanding that sattelite signals cannot be split like cable and that I would need 2 separate lines run to each of these rooms.

Since I already have one line run to each of the rooms within the walls - would I need a second line run to each of these rooms to get TIVO or is their another way to hook this up?

Thanks for your help!

Tony

Jd and Jim - Thanks a lot - I appreciate your help!

I was hoping the new DVR boxes would have the dual tuners that split the signal within the box like TW's 8300. Oh well - I will just get them to run new lines..

Thanks again

Tony

I was hoping the new DVR boxes would have the dual tuners that split the signal within the box like TW's 8300. Oh well - I will just get them to run new lines..

Thanks again

Tony

Tony,

The DISH Network two tuner DVRs (including the HD ViP622) do let you run just one line from the switch or LNB to the receiver (you must use DPP LNBs or a DPP switch). And DISH has way more HD channels than DirecTV has and their OTA ATSC tuner works (DirecTV's isn't enabled yet and HDMI isn't either). Before you commit to DirecTV I suggest that you read some of the satellite forums.

hdmi works on all directv recievers.. however, the hr20 - new hd dvr does not have the ota tuners turned on yet..

Does Dish Network offer locals via sattelite yet?

not yet.. they announced it about the same time as directv.. so I imagine sometime soon

I purchased an HDTV for the first time. I hooked up my Time Warner Cable (Basic Service) in to my new TV. It has a QAM tuner and I had it discover the stations. It found 5, 9, 12, 48, 54 (and all their sub channels). It did not find 19-1, 19-2, nor 64-1.

Any ideas as to why 19 and 64 are missing?

I called Time Warner support and they did not have a clue. They even transferred me to 3rd level support.

I purchased an HDTV for the first time. I hooked up my Time Warner Cable (Basic Service) in to my new TV. It has a QAM tuner and I had it discover the stations. It found 5, 9, 12, 48, 54 (and all their sub channels). It did not find 19-1, 19-2, nor 64-1.

Any ideas as to why 19 and 64 are missing?

I called Time Warner support and they did not have a clue. They even transferred me to 3rd level support.

You had better luck than I did, note my post just a little before yours. Since then I have lost all of those stations. I need to do another rescan and call them as well.

You had better luck than I did, note my post just a little before yours. Since then I have lost all of those stations. I need to do another rescan and call them as well.


I doubt calling them will help much. None of the people I talked to had any idea what I was talking about when I talked about QAM tuners. This is including the 3rd level support person.

When I called about a year ago about this issue it was attributed to signal strength. I removed the splitter and re-ran the scan and was successful in getting WXIX-DT. Those of you on basic (lifeline) cable might have those frequencies filtered out.

When I called about a year ago about this issue it was attributed to signal strength. I removed the splitter and re-ran the scan and was successful in getting WXIX-DT. Those of you on basic (lifeline) cable might have those frequencies filtered out.


Terry:

Thanks, I'll give that a try. Would an amplifier help if it is just a signal strength issue?

Terry:

Thanks, I'll give that a try. Would an amplifier help if it is just a signal strength issue?

An amplifier might help, but it could also introduce noise. So it might be worth a try.

Any ideas as to why 19 and 64 are missing?

As far as I know none of the local cable companies carry the digital feed of WSTR (64.1). It is a Sinclair Broadcasting station and Sinclair wants to be paid extra by the cable companies for carriage of their digital feeds and none, at least locally, have been willing to pay them.

As far as I know none of the local cable companies carry the digital feed of WSTR (64.1). It is a Sinclair Broadcasting station and Sinclair wants to be paid extra by the cable companies for carriage of their digital feeds and none, at least locally, have been willing to pay them.


Then would not Sinclair be in violation of FCC regulations?

FYI, TW Western OH (Dayton) Carries Sinclair stations WKEF-DT(ABC HD) and WRGT-DT(Fox HD) ... Evidently, per the promos of it being on TW channel 746(along with OTA 45.2 remapped -- which they do "promote" the OTA serice, seemingly unlike WKRC-DT's 12.2 currently) they carry WRGT-DT's MyTV subchannel as well, don't know about WKEF-DT's "The Tube".

Don't know what sort of deal is involved with that, but it does seem to be one of the very few markets where TW carries Sinclair owned or operated digital/HD stations ...


Then would not Sinclair be in violation of FCC regulations?

No. Stations are in no way shape or form required to allow their signal to be carried by any provider. Must carry rules are about cable being required to carry certian stations in some cases, but only *IF* the stations invoke/ask for Must Carry ... I would imagine most stations with in-demand programming probably choose to negotiate and are carried on Cable via retransmission consent rules(in which case stations can require $ for the retransmission rights, or other deals can be worked out/etc) instead of must carry ......

Call me lazy for not reading this entire thread... but does anyone have HD locals in the Cincinnati area via DirecTV? If so... what's the signal quality like? Are they really only offering the 4 majors networks as their website indicates?

I just bought a HD LCD TV and have scheduled D* to upgrade on 10/25. Currently I'm attempting to pull in the HD locals via an OTA antenna... which leads me to my next question:

Has anybody in the Maineville / Landen area been able to pull in ABC (9.1) via an OTA antenna? I have the Terk slim profile HD antenna, not mounted yet but I've been able to pull in all but ABC by laying it on the roof (the first story). I'm curious if I need to point it or angle it any special way to pick up VHF... or if putting it in the second story might help?

Any help would be appreciated.

swartzy - what upgrade are you getting.. h20 or the hr20? if its the hr20 - then ota is not active yet.

As far as maineville / landed - thats where I am and get wcpo with out any problems. if you can pull channel 12 in ok, then 9 should not be a problem antenna direction wise, it must be something with the terk- try a regular vhf / uhf antenna it will work fine

jim

. Those of you on basic (lifeline) cable might have those frequencies filtered out.

I wondered about that. It doesn't any sense that someone paying for basic cable would be able to get HD Channels. Even if they are using a tuner and not a hidef box, I would think that the cbale companies would block nthe HD on basic.

Call me lazy for not reading this entire thread... but does anyone have HD locals in the Cincinnati area via DirecTV? If so... what's the signal quality like? Are they really only offering the 4 majors networks as their website indicates?

I just bought a HD LCD TV and have scheduled D* to upgrade on 10/25. Currently I'm attempting to pull in the HD locals via an OTA antenna... which leads me to my next question:

Has anybody in the Maineville / Landen area been able to pull in ABC (9.1) via an OTA antenna? I have the Terk slim profile HD antenna, not mounted yet but I've been able to pull in all but ABC by laying it on the roof (the first story). I'm curious if I need to point it or angle it any special way to pick up VHF... or if putting it in the second story might help?

Any help would be appreciated.

Currently Direct TV is getting sued over the quality of thier HD signals. They call it HD lite. OTA with an antenna will give you the highest quality picture and thats usually from the Dayton stations.

swartzy - what upgrade are you getting.. h20 or the hr20? if its the hr20 - then ota is not active yet.

As far as maineville / landed - thats where I am and get wcpo with out any problems. if you can pull channel 12 in ok, then 9 should not be a problem antenna direction wise, it must be something with the terk- try a regular vhf / uhf antenna it will work fine

jim

Yeah... I'm pretty sure it's the antenna. I had a regular antenna and the only thing I could get was ABC (now that I think about it).

What doesn't make any sense is I can get the analog WCPO pretty well... just a little snowy. So... why the world can I not dial in the HD feed?

Anyway... I'm getting the HR20, and I'm aware of the OTA tuners. However... there isn't really anything not on the 4 majors that I want to record in HD anyway.

That said... pulling in ABC via OTA will soon be a moot point anyway. I'll probably mount the antenna to best pick up the off channels D* isn't carrying in HD yet.

Currently Direct TV is getting sued over the quality of thier HD signals. They call it HD lite. OTA with an antenna will give you the highest quality picture and thats usually from the Dayton stations.

Yeah... I understand all that. I read through some of that thread... but I didn't see any comments regarding the feeds from the new satellite and the mpeg4 compression.

I'll need to make a choice... D* or Time Warner. I would hate to make the switch to TW as I think their HD DVR blows, and D*'s HR20 has gotten pretty decent reviews as opposed to the HR15 anyway...

When I called about a year ago about this issue it was attributed to signal strength. I removed the splitter and re-ran the scan and was successful in getting WXIX-DT. Those of you on basic (lifeline) cable might have those frequencies filtered out.

Sorry to be a little late to the game with this but...I wanted to echo Terry's comments. When I first setup my hdtv i had signal strength issues. It caused problems on both the basic hd tuner in the tv and when I put the TW CC in the tv. Removed a line split from the feed and everything started to work correctly. I have since put in an amp so that I can get the split that I needed. So, i would recommend trying a direct cable feed (or as close as you can get to direct) first to see if the signal strength is the culprit. If more direct feed straightens things out, you can toy around with putting an amp in your wiring scheme.

HTH.

I wondered about that. It doesn't any sense that someone paying for basic cable would be able to get HD Channels. Even if they are using a tuner and not a hidef box, I would think that the cbale companies would block nthe HD on basic.

Well I think I misunderstood the first comment. Lifeline has a filter on the line to block some additional analog channels which might filter out the channels the digital signals are carried on. For those you on basic (all analog channels) you should be able to pull in all unencrypted QAM channels since they don't put a filter on that line.

Sorry if this is a repost, and I did see that some people found some knowledgeable OTA installers in this geogrpahical area. However, I am looking for names and numbers. I am in Middletown, and have an antenna aimed toward Dayton, and am still struggling with signal strength issues (pixelization, freezing, etc.) on some channels.

I think one of my problems is that the signal from the Channelmaster roof antenna is split three times to three different HDTVs all about the house. I am using in-line amplifiers, and still no great signals.

I am looking for a professional to diagnose and fix my problem with poor signal quality. I have had DirecTV send out someone in the past, and thier familiarity with the OTA side of things did not impress me. Any names and numbers?

Thanks, Tom

tom - nitewatchman is the resident middletown expert, but if I had to guess.. its the splitting of the signal that is killing things.. you might want to try a straight cable run to see if that helps.

jim

Thanks Jim. Newb question: how would I do a straight cable run to all three tvs? Split the signal at the antenna, or just one run and give up on reception to the two tvs? Thanks, Tom

i would just try 1 tv only and see if that works.. so run a straight cable fom the antenna directly to the tuner.. may take some hillbilly engineering, but at least you can see if its all the splits killing the signal

another question - what channels are you having trouble with??

Well I think I misunderstood the first comment. Lifeline has a filter on the line to block some additional analog channels which might filter out the channels the digital signals are carried on. For those you on basic (all analog channels) you should be able to pull in all unencrypted QAM channels since they don't put a filter on that line.

Here is what Insight in Northern Ky does: Their lowest tier (which they call basic) includes all the OTA local digital station except for WSTR-DT which they don't carry. Several months ago they sent out their new rates and services sheet which states: Basic Service (25 analog channels) includes local digital broadcast signals and HDTV signals for $13.25 a month. The filter that Insight uses blocks channels 27-78 (they call that the classic tier). Their digital channels are on channels 80-125 (and numbered from channel 101 - 947 if you have a cablecard or use their STB). Along with the digital broadcast channels their Music Choice package (about 45 channels) is also unencrypted.

I am looking for a professional to diagnose and fix my problem with poor signal quality. I have had DirecTV send out someone in the past, and thier familiarity with the OTA side of things did not impress me. Any names and numbers?


Unfortunetly it seems difficult to find pro OTA installers in this area who do residential installs and, whom also really know what they are doing with OTA -- especially when it comes to OTA DTV(that's DTV for "Digital Television" of the terrestrial sort, not DirecTV(D*).

Best I could suggest is to search this thread for "TNT Pictures"(some folks have reported some luck with those guys, although I can't really vouch for their OTA "knowledge" ), or/and you could give these guys a call and ask them if they can recommend anyone :

http://www.wintronic.com/daytonwintronic/index.htm

They(Dayton wintronic) do not install antennas, but they sell all the stuff installers need ... When I purchased some stuff from them a while back, they'd said they sell to several installers in the area ....

The best case scenerio would probably be --- A real *pro* OTA installer should come out to your site with the proper test equipment and, in addition to getting with you on the stations you want to receive, they should do a field test for a reasonable fee(say about $50 or so -- with the proper equipment for DTV/etc) to detirmine the best antenna(s) and location for it for best reception/see which stations you'd be able to receive reliably(generally -- if there are no significant terrain issues involved --- should be all the dayton+Cincy/N KY area stations) .... And then go from there concernining your options concerning the actual antenna install ..

Unforutnetly, I've yet to hear a single report here of a installer in the area doing such a field test ... Instead, I've heard folks comment that some installers just told them on the phone such things as "You can't get OTA in your area(which is usually wrong)" - how about satellite dish? .. Or, they just come out with a standard antenna they use (at least some of the folks such as TNT Pictures seem to choose good antennas - such as Winegard Mid-sized VHF/UHF combo - with rotor if desired/necessary) and stick it on your roof/in attic/etc ...

Do keep in mind prices of $200~600 or more are reasonable(IMO at least) costs for such a pro-antenna install ... That may seem like a lot, but if it's done right, consider #1). You're talking about an install which should last for decades), how much the OTA programming costs($0), and the number of receiveable stations in our area (Currerntly, 15 DTV stations - 14 of those with HD, and about 21 (Including the LP's+depending upon exactly where you are) analog stations ..... Ok, well who cares about LP stations? Well, for example, I for one enjoy such programming as CFL football(from CBC broadcast) on WOTH-LP 25 Cincy occasionally ....

----------------------------------------

If you decide you want to continue to DIY, here's a couple of good sites that might help you out, and several threads(including this one) are loaded with great OTA reception info :

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/antennadex.html

------------------------------------------------------

In any case, let us know how it turns out ... especially on the pro installer side of things as I'm sure any info you could provide would help others ...

Noob here again. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone's thoughtful insight here. I have just recently upgraded to HD and thanks to this forum, figured out the OTA antenna and getting HD locals for my dish net. HD.

AVSFORUMs rocks!

Are you kidding me!

The 8300 HD DVR is probably one of the best boxes out there.....by far!

Tony

Are you kidding me!

The 8300 HD DVR is probably one of the best boxes out there.....by far!

Tony

I used to think that, then switched to Dish and got their ViP622... the 622 is MUCH better than the 8300HD. It is faster, less buggy, and more responsive than the 8300HD.

Are you kidding me!

The 8300 HD DVR is probably one of the best boxes out there.....by far!

Tony

Tony,

If you ever seen and used a DISH Network ViP622 you would change your mind. The 622 can record three HD programs at the same time while you watch a (recorded) fourth program. It can feed different channels to two TVs in different rooms at the same time. On top of that DISH Network has far more HD than any of the local cable companies.

This very well may be true - I havent used the new DISH box and it very well may be better.

However - the 8300 is still a great box and hardly "blows". I have had this for 2 years and havent had a single problem. Its fast, has great options and I havent had any bug problems at all.

So let me get this straight - I have TW - the HD DVR in the main room and a standard DVR in the bedroom.

The HD DVR is pretty much where I watch all my tv, sports etc.

The standard DVR in the bedroom is where the wife watches all her girly shows .

If I switch to DISH and get the new VIP622 - How exactly is this going to control both tvs?

How would she change channels from the other room if there is only 1 receiver that will be in the main room?

Am I supposed to control her stuff for her? This isnt going to fly during football season or any time for that matter.

This doesnt seem to make a whole lot of sense or be very practical

Can someone please explain to me how this would work and what possible benefit this would have over having 2 separate receivers.

Tony

Thanks Nite. I will give them a call. I am looking for someone to do an install in the house I am building that will be finished in about five months. Sounds like these people will know who to call.

To Jim: Pretty much all of them pixelate to some degree every few minutes, randomly. Here is my list of channels and reception, with a Channelmaster:
WKEF 22.1, Freq: 51: Strength: 68
WDTN, 2.1, Freq. 50: Strength: 92
WHIO, 7.1, Freq. 41: Strength 68
WRGT, 45.1, Freq. 30: Strength 80.

With the channelmaster VHF/UHF pointed toward Dayton, I also get Cincinnati channels, but with a little more break-up.

Would you recommend getting an $80 UHF, multi-bow tie aimed toward Dayton, since they are all broadcasting on UHF, and just giving up on Cincinnati?

I am to the point where I am about to change orientation and try the Cincinnati stations for a while to see if that improves things.

Are you kidding me!

The 8300 HD DVR is probably one of the best boxes out there.....by far!

Tony

Apparently you've never had a Hughes DirecTivo DVR. By comparison... the TW HD DVR (not sure of model number) is slow to respond, doesn't fast forward as quickly or smoothly, has minimal HD capacity and the A-B-C buttons are pretty laim IMO.

Naturally I don't expect the DirecTV Plus HD DVR to be as good as the DirecTivo simply because the Tivo interface rocks. However... I have heard it's much better than DirecTV's first attempt at their own box.

Anyway... I'm guessing nobody has HD locals from DirecTV yet?

I know this is way OT but I figured who better to ask this than the local "geek-squad": I want to lower my phone bill by going to vonage or the like. I NEED broadband though (have zoomtown/ph=$100/mo) & the only organization I hate more than the phone company is the cable company. (I'm a D* guy) So, I checked DirectWay & they charge $60/month (for Broadband & ISP) plus vonage @ $25/mo = not much savings. Have young family who need home phone or I'd go wireless all-together...any one have great success going VoIP? -other ideas or pointing to sites would be appreciated...

PS: Anyone have the new hr20 boxes w/OTA enabled? Was it done by Bluegrass? Was it done right? Is it a must have over my newly vaunted 6.3 HR10? Thanks!

I know this is way OT but I figured who better to ask this than the local "geek-squad": I want to lower my phone bill by going to vonage or the like. I NEED broadband though (have zoomtown/ph=$100/mo) & the only organization I hate more than the phone company is the cable company. (I'm a D* guy) So, I checked DirectWay & they charge $60/month (for Broadband & ISP) plus vonage @ $25/mo = not much savings. Have young family who need home phone or I'd go wireless all-together...any one have great success going VoIP? -other ideas or pointing to sites would be appreciated...

PS: Anyone have the new hr20 boxes w/OTA enabled? Was it done by Bluegrass? Was it done right? Is it a must have over my newly vaunted 6.3 HR10? Thanks!

Last I heard OTA on the HR20 is not enabled... unless something has changed. I would stick w/ the HR10 if you're happy w/ it.

You can answer my question though... Is the D* HD feed really that bad? I've heard mixed reviews... even some who say the SD feed is really bad and I couldn't disagree more w/ that.

I'm mostly concerned w/ the HD locals (which you've not getting w/ the HR10), but any info on the others (ESPN, ESPN2) would be helpful too!

The D* HD's are pretty awesome looking to me. (I also own an HD DVD player) Esp. the ESPN feed in 720p is absolutely stunning!

naked zoomtown is $40 a month ($46) after taxes, I use packet8 and its $24.95 a month after taxes - total internet and phone - $70 :) works like a charm most people can not tell I am on voip..

I know this is way OT but I figured who better to ask this than the local "geek-squad": I want to lower my phone bill by going to vonage or the like. I NEED broadband though (have zoomtown/ph=$100/mo) & the only organization I hate more than the phone company is the cable company. (I'm a D* guy) So, I checked DirectWay & they charge $60/month (for Broadband & ISP) plus vonage @ $25/mo = not much savings. Have young family who need home phone or I'd go wireless all-together...any one have great success going VoIP? -other ideas or pointing to sites would be appreciated...

PS: Anyone have the new hr20 boxes w/OTA enabled? Was it done by Bluegrass? Was it done right? Is it a must have over my newly vaunted 6.3 HR10? Thanks!

is your signal meter bouncing or is it solid.. my guess is that it bounces.. i would try the single wire direct from antenna to tv and see what happens.. from middletown you should be able to get both dayton and cincinnati with relative ease on a medium juice antenna.. do you have any hills, trees or buildings in the way? I am in mainville and get dayton with no problems.. remember your signal meter is usually just a dummy number.. see if you can get some info on the signal like the dB... 16 is usually the minimum threshold to have a locked signal. that will give you more insight to what is actually going on.

jim

Thanks Nite. I will give them a call. I am looking for someone to do an install in the house I am building that will be finished in about five months. Sounds like these people will know who to call.

To Jim: Pretty much all of them pixelate to some degree every few minutes, randomly. Here is my list of channels and reception, with a Channelmaster:
WKEF 22.1, Freq: 51: Strength: 68
WDTN, 2.1, Freq. 50: Strength: 92
WHIO, 7.1, Freq. 41: Strength 68
WRGT, 45.1, Freq. 30: Strength 80.

With the channelmaster VHF/UHF pointed toward Dayton, I also get Cincinnati channels, but with a little more break-up.

Would you recommend getting an $80 UHF, multi-bow tie aimed toward Dayton, since they are all broadcasting on UHF, and just giving up on Cincinnati?

I am to the point where I am about to change orientation and try the Cincinnati stations for a while to see if that improves things.

Jim, you are right on the money. It was bouncing around alot on most channels. One thing I did tonight was change out the balun to one that was less corroded (fresh copper), changed out a few F-connectors that looked like they could be freshened, and cut out any excess cable that was there. Amazingly, there has not been one dropout in two hours!

If I switch to DISH and get the new VIP622 - How exactly is this going to control both tvs?

How would she change channels from the other room if there is only 1 receiver that will be in the main room?

Can someone please explain to me how this would work and what possible benefit this would have over having 2 separate receivers.

Tony

I can't think of a single reason the ViP622 would have a benefit over two boxes. Once you switch to 2 tv mode your DVR essentially becomes a single tuner (with the OTA option I suppose). You then run the second output from the DVR to your second TV and control the box with a second RF remote.

Don't listen to these E* fanboys when they say, "We have more HD." Sure they have more HD, but it is important to choose your provider based on if they meet your needs not just pure number of channels.

I did quite a bit of research before deciding that my customer retention deal with TWC will keep me for a while longer. I found that D* had the best package to meet my particular viewing preferences because of how they package their sports. The only two channels I can think of that I would be missing were FoodHD and HGTVHD. Personally I became sold on D* due to OLN and ESPNU which I found weren't available on DishHD until you sub to higher packages. I was very close to picking E* as they seem to have a really good product, but they lacked some the channels that I required at the price I could afford.

So I recommend creating a grid and list the channels you want/need on one axis and the packages available from the various providers on the other axis. Then choose the one that meets most of the channels you want for the price you can afford.

Cause remember my motto: All TV providers suck in their own way, just pick one that best meets your needs.

======================

FYI, VoIP is not available over satellite internet.

good deal - make sure the bauln is clean and use rg6 - now you probably can get a powered amp to boost the signal right before you split it.. you also could get the channel master powered amp..

Jim, you are right on the money. It was bouncing around alot on most channels. One thing I did tonight was change out the balun to one that was less corroded (fresh copper), changed out a few F-connectors that looked like they could be freshened, and cut out any excess cable that was there. Amazingly, there has not been one dropout in two hours!

I know this is way OT but I figured who better to ask this than the local "geek-squad": I want to lower my phone bill by going to vonage or the like. I NEED broadband though (have zoomtown/ph=$100/mo) & the only organization I hate more than the phone company is the cable company. (I'm a D* guy) So, I checked DirectWay & they charge $60/month (for Broadband & ISP) plus vonage @ $25/mo = not much savings. Have young family who need home phone or I'd go wireless all-together...any one have great success going VoIP? -other ideas or pointing to sites would be appreciated...

PS: Anyone have the new hr20 boxes w/OTA enabled? Was it done by Bluegrass? Was it done right? Is it a must have over my newly vaunted 6.3 HR10? Thanks!

VoIP over the Sat is definitely a no-no. It comes down to the propagation delay of ~300ms (time it takes for the signal to go to the satellite and back down). I actually worked on a trial with my company where we tested it, it was like back in the 70s on a CB. With the amount of time between you speaking and the other person hearing it, it made it unuseable. I can tell you that the military does it but they are used to saying "over" when they are done talking. :p

I just had my AT9 dish installed yesterday by Bluegrass, went without a hitch. I have had my two HR20s for about 4 weeks now, and they are indeed quite buggy. However, I have had only one lockup, and so far I have only had one show that wasn't recorded that was supposed to--it recorded the first 20 min, so I am not exactly sure if it was the box, sat, or what. They are putting out software updates almost weekly to resolve the issues, but the bugs I have seen are not making me loose use of the box. Last night I watched Lost on the HD sat feed and it was perfect. To answer your question, I don't know if it is a must have--but I couldn't stand having a box (HR10) that couldn't get everything that D* was sending to me. I am going to run for about a week and if the HR20 does the HD locals fine, then I am decommissioning my HR10. And OTA is not active yet, but was rumored in October, which is over 1/2 gone, and was promised by D* by 12.1.2006. With the 4 big locals over the Sat I am OK with waiting, I don't loose much at all without OTA.

PS, This is my 3rd interaction with Bluegrass in the past month (I was at two other friends houses when they got installed) and all three guys were as nice as could be and seemed to do a fine job)

Jim, thnkas. By hte way, I am already running a Radio Shack amp in line (1170? I think). I tried a powered channel master amp at the mast a while back, and apparently did something wrong, because I got no signal at all using that amp. I might go that route again if necessary.

Don't listen to these E* fanboys when they say, "We have more HD." Sure they have more HD, but it is important to choose your provider based on if they meet your needs not just pure number of channels.

I wouldn't say I'm a fan boy, but I will admit that I think Time Warner Cable is absolutely the worst company in the history of the world.

As far as the DVR goes, I'm sorry, I had all kinds of bugs with the 8300. Digital Audio dropping out, studdering issues, regular rebooting of the box, etc. The fast forward and rewinding were not nearly as smooth... I also read a site (forget which off hand) that rates all the DVR boxes out there, the SA8300 was one of the lowest rated boxes on the market, while both D*'s and E*'s boxes were rated at the top.


I did quite a bit of research before deciding that my customer retention deal with TWC will keep me for a while longer. I found that D* had the best package to meet my particular viewing preferences because of how they package their sports. The only two channels I can think of that I would be missing were FoodHD and HGTVHD. Personally I became sold on D* due to OLN and ESPNU which I found weren't available on DishHD until you sub to higher packages. I was very close to picking E* as they seem to have a really good product, but they lacked some the channels that I required at the price I could afford.

You are right, you should choose based on your own needs. I found that I could save $40 a month if I changed to E* for what my needs are. However, my wife decided she wanted some pay movie channels, so now I pay the same as I paid to TWC but I get HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, and Starz, plus all the HD channels E* offers (the HD Platinum package) for the same price as I paid to TWC for just HBO and Showtime. I also get all of the TWC "value pack" channels, which I never got from TWC because I would have had to add another $10 to my bill (I chose the HD pack from Time Warner).

Cause remember my motto: All TV providers suck in their own way, just pick one that best meets your needs./quote]

True, could not have said it better myself. However, as I stated before, I have found that Time Warner is by far the worst of the bunch.

[quote]FYI, VoIP is not available over satellite internet.

I found that it was cheaper for me to bundle my internet, phone, and cell phones with my local phone carrier, then get Dish Network, than it was for me to have Time Warner do my TV, internet, and VoIP plus a separate company for my cell phone. I'd check into the price before locking in to Time Warner.

There's been a known-problem reported on the hr10 with the new version 6.3 with audio drop-outs. So I have a question for those who have the new hr20 & HD-locals thru the D* sat: Last nite on WXIX-DT 29 (19-1) for the cards/mets game there were numerous audio drop-outs -- did others out there experience this too? It seemed the worst early in the game (1st 3 innings)...this never happened with previous 3.1 version...this could sway me towards the new hr20 box...

I can't think of a single reason the ViP622 would have a benefit over two boxes. Once you switch to 2 tv mode your DVR essentially becomes a single tuner (with the OTA option I suppose). You then run the second output from the DVR to your second TV and control the box with a second RF remote.

Don't listen to these E* fanboys when they say, "We have more HD." Sure they have more HD, but it is important to choose your provider based on if they meet your needs not just pure number of channels.


Terry,

I have always respected your opinions and contributions to this forum but you are way off base when it comes to the ViP622 and DISH Network.

You can't think of a single reason that the ViP622 would have a benefit over two boxes because you know so little about the box (have you ever seen or used one?). One thing that you didn't bother to mention is that one satellite STB cost less per month than two cable STBs and given the fact that satellite receivers cost less per month than cable STBs to begin with you can save some dollar on your total monthly bill.

I agree with you on choosing the right HD package for your needs but DISH has a lot more options in HD packages than Time-Warner (or other cable company) does. And you have to look at quality. Have you compared the picture quality of TW's HD channels with DISH's HD channels? I think if you did you wouldn't be such a big Time-Warner fanboy.

Jim, thnkas. By hte way, I am already running a Radio Shack amp in line (1170? I think). I tried a powered channel master amp at the mast a while back, and apparently did something wrong, because I got no signal at all using that amp. I might go that route again if necessary.

Not to butt in on Jim's excellent advice -- But a few thoughts related to your comments in case they are of use :

#1)Have you tried it w/o the amp and w/o any splitters to just one receiver to see what happens - that might be a good experiment to try --- Also, make sure you have a FM trap engaged, either in line before the amp, or many preamps(most of the higher quality ones) have a switchable FM trap. Strong signals can easily overload the amp and cause problems, since these preamps are very broadband, it certainly can be, but doesn't necessarily have to be a strong TV signal that causes problems, and, certianly FM stations can easily cause problems if you're using an amp, especially so with VHF/UHF antenna which will pull in blow torch FM signals in our area as well. Also note that the Radio Shack amps are notorious for easily overloading and/or being very "noisy".....

#2). On the CM mast mount amp(also make sure FM trap is engaged) -- Keep in mind, in order for it to work You can't have anything between the preamp on the mast and the power supply that will block the power being sent via the coax by the power supply. A "standard" splitter for example would block that power. Also keep in mind, if the circuitry in the preamp isn't powered, it will cut the signal getting through the amp dramatically, *MUCH* MUCH more so than if you didn't have an amp in line at all, almost to the point where it probably looks like there isn't even an antenna hooked up.

Update: You can of course put the power supply anywhere, it doesn't have to be "next to the TV" ... Just put it before any splitters or anything else that might block the power to the amp -- Ground blocks are OK, but otherwise there shouldn't be anything besides F connectors and coax between the amp and the power supply ...

#2a) - If you had some bad connections as you've reported, that also could have essenitally "blocked" the power from getting from the power supply to the amp properly.

---------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I couldn't help but notice a couple of the dayton stations were missing from your list -- WPTD-DT 58(16.x - PBS HD on 16.6 6pm~6am Nightly), and WBDT-DT 18 (26.1 - CW HD) ... You should probably be receiving those as well with antenna aimed towards Dayton ....


Anyway -- Hope this helps, looks like you are on the right track concerning working on diagnosing your reception issues ...

I don't loose much at all without OTA.


If I buy a Beer and it's less than 1/2 full I'd call that missing a lot ;) .... You may not lose much that you care to watch, but that's a bit different from what you said .....

Not to argue, but just to point out for those who may not be aware of this :

OTA HD available in Cincinnati area you're not getting via the dish :

PBS HD from WCET-DT 48.1 - That's 24 hours a day of HD or SD widescreen programming upconverted to 1080i(the latter certianly beats a 16x9 frame "letterboxed" inside 4x3 480i SD in terms of Resolution) about 1/2 the week, and about 18 hours of it on other days when they shut the transmitter down at 1am ...

PBS HD from KET4/WCVN-DT 54-4 - 8pm ~12am nightly -- Completely different programming schedule of PBS HD - The vast majority of it being HD, and not SD widescreen upconverts.. And, IMO, the Best PBS HD quality in the area, especially if you don't like MPEG2 compression artifacts ...

PBS HD/widescreen from WPTO-DT 14-6 - 8-10pm Nightly - completly different programming schedule from the others.

MyNetworkTV HD from WSTR-DT 64.1

CW HD from WBDT-DT Dayton(for much of the area).

HD from the Nets that runs on the Dayton stations(for much of the area) when it doesn't in cincinnati due to "scheduling" conflicts/etc, or vice versa ... (Also note that all 6 Dayton stations provide DD 5.1 audio, when available, Including for CBS HD) ...

----------------------

SD programming -- Too many to list from the various subchannels and analog low power stations .... some of which are not carried by Cable or Satellite at all ...

Those in areas between Cincy/Lexington or Cincy/Indy or Cincy/columbus or Cincy/Lousiville, ETC can receive HD and other OTA programming from those other markets as well ..

If I buy a Beer and it's less than 1/2 full I'd call that missing a lot ;) .... You may not lose much that you care to watch, but that's a bit different from what you said .....

Not to argue, but just to point out for those who may not be aware of this :

OTA HD available in Cincinnati area you're not getting via the dish :

PBS HD from WCET-DT 48.1 - That's 24 hours a day of HD or SD widescreen programming upconverted to 1080i(the latter certianly beats a 16x9 frame "letterboxed" inside 4x3 480i SD in terms of Resolution) about 1/2 the week, and about 18 hours of it on other days when they shut the transmitter down at 1am ...

PBS HD from KET4/WCVN-DT 54-4 - 8pm ~12am nightly -- Completely different programming schedule of PBS HD - The vast majority of it being HD, and not SD widescreen upconverts.. And, IMO, the Best PBS HD quality in the area, especially if you don't like MPEG2 compression artifacts ...

PBS HD/widescreen from WPTO-DT 14-6 - 8-10pm Nightly - completly different programming schedule from the others.

MyNetworkTV HD from WSTR-DT 64.1

CW HD from WBDT-DT Dayton(for much of the area).

HD from the Nets that runs on the Dayton stations(for much of the area) when it doesn't in cincinnati due to "scheduling" conflicts/etc, or vice versa ... (Also note that all 6 Dayton stations provide DD 5.1 audio, when available, Including for CBS HD) ...


I tend to agree. I'm just having trouble deciding if I want to go through the trouble of mounting an antenna to pick up those other stations that D* doesn't carry... especially considering it may be some time, if ever, before I'll be able to record them using my soon to be installed HR20.

I'm thinking if I mount the antenna up on the second story I should be able to pick up anything... it's just getting the wife to approve at that point. :)

Terry,

I have always respected your opinions and contributions to this forum but you are way off base when it comes to the ViP622 and DISH Network.

You can't think of a single reason that the ViP622 would have a benefit over two boxes because you know so little about the box (have you ever seen or used one?). One thing that you didn't bother to mention is that one satellite STB cost less per month than two cable STBs and given the fact that satellite receivers cost less per month than cable STBs to begin with you can save some dollar on your total monthly bill.

Whoa, whoa, whoa don't go infering I compaired the ViP622 to a cable DVR. I'm sorry I failed to mention the obvious cost difference, but do i believe there is a technical advantage, no and that is what I was refering to. Also, you critize me for not knowing much about the ViP622, but you don't correct my understanding of how it operates.

From all that I have read the ViP622 has two modes of operation (one or two room) and when operating in two room mode it is my understanding that you cannot take advantage of the dual tuner capabilities of the box in a single room. So if I am recording Simpsons on TV1 and my wife is watching ABC on TV2 I cannot switch over to NBC to watch Sunday Night Football (assuming no OTA). So to answer the question of "what possible benefit this would have over having 2 separate receivers," there isn't a benefit other than lower cost in exchange for lesser capabilities.

Here's a couple questions to those that have a ViP600. Can you watch a program that was recorded from TV2 on TV1? If nobody is watching TV2 can you use the ViP600 as a dual tuner device (record one channel while watching another live program)? I'm sure these sound like stupid questions to you, but some of the reviews of this box were confusing and I don't understand why it would make a difference to know where a show was recorded from.

I agree with you on choosing the right HD package for your needs but DISH has a lot more options in HD packages than Time-Warner (or other cable company) does. And you have to look at quality. Have you compared the picture quality of TW's HD channels with DISH's HD channels? I think if you did you wouldn't be such a big Time-Warner fanboy.

Options are just that, options. No matter the number of options a single provider has you can always opt to select one provider's package or you can opt for a different provider's package. And don't be confused, E* has only one option for HD, they just have 4 options for the number of SD channels you get with your standard set of HD channels.

Personally I doubt I would see a large enough quality difference between D*, E*, and TWC to make a difference in my decisions.

I totally agree TWC is lacking in HD programing and their DVR is very sub-par (i've had a TiVo for almost 6 years now to compare to the TWC DVR). The problem is, as I stated before, even though E* and D* certanily have a better product it comes down to cost for me and I know from my research I'm paying less for an inferior product. If I was paying more or the same price for an inferior product I would be gone faster than you could imagine, but unfortuneatly that isn't the case.

Don't get me wrong I hate TWC, but I really wish I could dump TV providers all together, so don't lump me in with the TW-fanboys. I try to tell people to explore their options and see which one fits their needs and to not buy into marketing hype. Since I'm hooked on the ESPN family, and it costs less to sub to a TV provider than it does to go to a bar several times a month, i'm stuck with some kind of TV provider. My goal is to pay the least amount for TV as I can while they provide to me some number of channels that hopefully covers most/all of my needs.

Since I'm hooked on the ESPN family, and it costs less to sub to a TV provider than it does to go to a bar several times a month, i'm stuck with some kind of TV provider. My goal is to pay the least amount for TV as I can while they provide to me some number of channels that hopefully covers most/all of my needs.

Wow, I'd think being a big ESPN/sports fan that Time Warner would pretty much be the last place you'd want to be.

No ESPNU, no ESPN2HD... I watch both of those channels a lot, and with UC basketball having 7 games on ESPNU this year (from what I've heard at least) then I know that ESPNU will become even more important to me.

Also, NFL network (and HDNFL) is not a bad channel to have, especially for the replays that happen during the week.

When I dropped Time Warner back in June I was paying $110 after all taxes/fees, had 2 DVRs, and the digipic 2000 pack (2 pay channels, the HD tier, and the basic channels). My cost now through dish is $116 after all taxes/fees, 30 HD channels, all SD channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, and Starz (HBO, Showtime, and Starz in HD)... it was an easy choice for me.

A couple of my friends got a deal to switch from satellite that gave them a good deal for 18 months, after 18 months it goes up to $115 and they get the same package as I just described above, at that point they have all said they will either go with Dish or DirecTV (which might be the best option after all their satellites are up). Time Warner, for the average subscriber, charges the most for the least amount of content.

Wow, I'd think being a big ESPN/sports fan that Time Warner would pretty much be the last place you'd want to be.

No ESPNU, no ESPN2HD... I watch both of those channels a lot, and with UC basketball having 7 games on ESPNU this year (from what I've heard at least) then I know that ESPNU will become even more important to me.

Also, NFL network (and HDNFL) is not a bad channel to have, especially for the replays that happen during the week.
Well so far I have really only "missed" one game in HD on ESPN2HD and that was last fall. Yeah there are a few hockey games I will be missing since they will be on ESPNU, but I'm ok since there aren't enough of them to bother me. I'm not much of an NFL fan so what I can get from locals is more than enough for me.

My big sports are a college football and college hockey. Yes missing ESPN2HD and ESPNU does hurt a bit, but so few of the games I watch end up on those channels.

My primary viewing channels are the digital locals (which consumes the vast majority of my viewing) followed by ESPN family and then basic cable channels which is why I some times contemplate dropping pay TV.

When I dropped Time Warner back in June I was paying $110 after all taxes/fees, had 2 DVRs, and the digipic 2000 pack (2 pay channels, the HD tier, and the basic channels). My cost now through dish is $116 after all taxes/fees, 30 HD channels, all SD channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, and Starz (HBO, Showtime, and Starz in HD)... it was an easy choice for me.
Since I only have one HD-DVR and sub to Digipic1000 plus the sports tier and HD tier my total cost is 69.57 before tax (excluding internet). If I went with D* Total Choice my comparable package cost would be $82.95 and Dish Silver (because Bronze is missing a few channels) would be $86.96.

A couple of my friends got a deal to switch from satellite that gave them a good deal for 18 months, after 18 months it goes up to $115 and they get the same package as I just described above, at that point they have all said they will either go with Dish or DirecTV (which might be the best option after all their satellites are up). Time Warner, for the average subscriber, charges the most for the least amount of content.
Oh I certainly agree that TWC's regular fees are far too high and before they dropped my cost I was already to jump to D*. I HIGHLY encourage anybody that has TWC and is paying full price to call and tell them you're paying too much and you're considering switching to satellite. It really wasn't hard at all for me to get my bill lowered. If they refuse to continue my low rate come Februaryish *POOF* i'm gone.

I hadn't tried 64.1 for a long time, but after the September thunderstorms, I ended up having to replace my htl-hd and an h20 receiver, so I was setting them up last weekend, and BAM! 64.1 in Amelia. Too bad they don't seem to have much I want to watch now that I can finally get them out here!

Dave

That's great news guys! Glad to hear jmp2244's reception issues have been taken care of with the new drivers as well ..

Enjoy the WB HD for as long as it lasts ...

Keep the WSTR-DT reports coming in, as they might help others out .... I'm especially curious if anyone in their antenna pattern's nulls(such as SE of their tower) who wasn't getting them before can see them now ....

anyone know when the rest of the digital mandates from the FCC kick in? I have been looking all over for 2 digital items without any sucess. 1. A small (18-22") digital tv (SDTV is fine) for my wife's office. and 2. A reasonably priced device that records ATSC over the air digital (would even settle for SDTV if I had to) and can't find anyting for 1 and for 2 only the HD tivo or the closeout Sony at $800.

Thanks Nite. Reception has been pretty good sicne inspecting and changing some connections. I do receive more Dayton stations, but just did not list them, sorry. I will look into an FM trap and put it in line. I am sure you are right with what happened with the CM mast amp--I must have done something like you describe, because I had no signal at all.

anyone know when the rest of the digital mandates from the FCC kick in? I have been looking all over for 2 digital items without any sucess. 1. A small (18-22") digital tv (SDTV is fine) for my wife's office. and 2. A reasonably priced device that records ATSC over the air digital (would even settle for SDTV if I had to) and can't find anyting for 1 and for 2 only the HD tivo or the closeout Sony at $800.

It is my understanding that at some point in 2007 any OTA capable device must contain a ATSC tuner. You may have noticed the way I worded that statement the loop hole is if you're building a cable only device (like how the TiVo Series 2 Dual Tuner was designed) you're not required to include an ATSC tuner.

I don't know what exactly this means for TVs, their tuners and when certain sized devices must have an ATSC tuner, but I think items like VCRs, DVRs, DVD recorders can become exempt from the mandate by "removing" the OTA tuner.

I believe we're a long ways off from a "reasonably priced" ATSC recorder. Since these devices are still in the early adopter phase they are marketed to high end users not the mass market. Another option you may not have considered would be JVC's DVHS recorder that can be found for ~$375-$800. Although it appears this device does require an external ATSC tuner with a FireWire connection.

What you may want to consider as a non-user friendly solution (if you need this ability today) would be to buy an external ATSC tuner and plug that into a VCR. You'll lose the "set it and forget it" functionality of the VCR, but you'd still be able to record ATSC broadcasts in some fashion.

anyone know when the rest of the digital mandates from the FCC kick in? I have been looking all over for 2 digital items without any sucess. 1. A small (18-22") digital tv (SDTV is fine) for my wife's office.


Last November, I think FCC moved up the schedule a bit, Here's what paragraph #1 of the following document from FCC (2nd report+order on this matter, From November 2005) says :

"1.1. By this action, the Commission is modifying its rules to advance the date on which new television receivers with screen sizes 13-24” and certain other TV receiving devices such as VCRs and digital video recorders must include the capability to receive broadcast digital television signals from the current date of July 1, 2007 to March 1, 2007. The Commission is also amending its rules to apply the digital television reception capability requirement to new receivers with screen sizes smaller than 13” on this same schedule. The DTV reception requirement, which also often is termed the “DTV tuner requirement,” is being implemented under an approach that applies it first to large screen receivers and then progressively to smaller screen receivers and other devices over a period of several years.1 The modifications made herein affect the final step of this phase-in plan.2 With these changes, the scheduled implementation plan will provide for all new TV receiver equipment to include digital reception capability as of March 1, 2007."


Full document here:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-190A1.pdf

---------------

Don't know if there have been any modifications to the above, I don't think so, but I'm not sure. As I recall, the CE companies may have done some whining about it back at the time.



and 2. A reasonably priced device that records ATSC over the air digital (would even settle for SDTV if I had to) and can't find anyting for 1 and for 2 only the HD tivo or the closeout Sony at $800.

Here's what I do, in case it gives you any ideas :

Option #1).This is similar to what Terry mentioned concerning DVHS deck -- but instead of DVHS, I use a PC instead -- "Record" OTA HD (or SD - works for any ATSC) via Firewire from Sony KD34XBR960 HDTV's internal tuner to a PC. For Playback, I use component (or DVI-I out to HDMI input on TV) out from ATI Radeon X1600 - There should actually be a way to do it via firewire as well, but I haven't found a way to do that yet using XP. The MCE PC has SPDIF out for audio which I run to audio receiver, so I get DD 5.1/etc. A seperate ATSC tuner card(or USB tuner)on the PC would be even nicer, and I might go that route at some point since those can be picked up these days for well under $100. What's also nice about this is with the right tools, you can do such things as edit the transport/program streams(such as to remove commercials), transcode to other formats (such as to archive onto DVD/etc). Do make sure you have a large hard disk+a PC capable of smooth HD playback .. Recording wise, it doesn't take much horsepower, as basically all you are doing is capturing(at most) a 19.39Mb/s stream .... For me, this turned out to be quite inexpensive to implement(actually, the only thing I had to pay for "specifically" for this purpose were the cables to hook between PC+TV), as I already had the other hardware for other purposes ...the big problem here may involve how close the PC is to the display(for me the PC is actually in another room), and running the cables ....

Option #2). It isn't HD, but, with SVHS Close to DVD quality* results: Output 16x9 NTSC video at 480i from ATSC STB(Specifically, I'm using Zenith HDV420, or Hisense(USDTV) DB-2010 using those receivers "squeeze" Aspect ratio functions -- Send this to SVHS VCR's S-video or composite video input -- When you play it back, use your 16x9 display's "full mode" to "stretch" it back out for proper AR, which works(more or less) just like a widescreen "anamorphic" DVD ... You of course can record 4x3 SD digital "normally" via this method as well, or use your STB's Letterbox Aspect ratio control for HD/etc(although you'll lose a lot of resolution this way) ... This will work with any "analog" VCR(composite input as well), but you'll get much better results with SVHS deck/SVHS tapes, which do about 400 lines of resolution, about twice the resolution of VHS (in other words, it will work with VHS, but it will have the normal VHS "fuzziness" ...

Unfortunetly, I'm not seeing many SVHS decks out there these days ... I'd think(hope anyway) You could do pretty much do the same with a DVD recorder, although it would be nicer if you didn't convert to analog before going to digital on the DVD ....

* - For instance, If I use Option #1, then transcode HD to 480i(played back as 480p is usually my preference) and burn it to DVD, and do a comparision to a recording(same protgramming) using Option #2 and SVHS --- Certianly, the DVD generally looks a little better, but not by a lot ... Also, For the DVD's -- I'm still searching for a better software encoder(or a better way to use what I'm using currently) for the transcoding to 480i, as the same sorts of problem that was occuring with WCPO's "jaggies" can easily occur when you transcode 1080i or 720p to 480i/p for DVD ...

---------------------------



but I think items like VCRs, DVRs, DVD recorders can become exempt from the mandate by "removing" the OTA tuner.


I hope something like that doesn't become too widespread ... My current HD recording "options" mentioned above are more of a "try to make the best use of what I have" deal as I'm waiting to see what happens -- perhaps things will become clearer after the tuner mandate goes into full effect concerning what OTA HD recording options are going to be available .... Of course, another thing I'm looking at is wondering when/if many stations are ever going to get their PSIP "EPG" act together in such a way it could actually be useful when selecting which programs to record/etc ....

At the very least, I'd want a OTA HD DVR+DVD Recorder(recorder for whatever HD DVD format becomes "the standard" someday would be even better), OR a DVHS deck with at least ATSC receiver, either of which would need to output HD via component or HDMI ... You'd think they should be able to do that for $300 or less ... I've been thinking about DVHS for quite sometime, and that indeed would seem to fit my requirements more than any other current option --- but having used "beta" in the early 80's .. well, you get the idea ...

While I do use E* currently(SD only - no reason to get the locals via the dish either), and I'm happy with what I'm getting from them -- I'm not sure I'm going to keep it (or any such provider) in any sort of permanent fashion(especially as the rates rise) as the amount of programming I watch, or would ever care to watch that isn't available OTA isn't very significant(and most of that is available via DVD) .... So, I'd really prefer to keep the important stuff(OTA and the hardware involved) "seperate" from what I do with E*(or any provider) ...

"No true sports fan would want TW"

Any true sports fan knows that there is nothing worth watching ever on ESPN2 or ESPNU

You can have your 2 extra channels and watch billiards or womens tennis.

"No true sports fan would want TW"

Any true sports fan knows that there is nothing worth watching ever on ESPN2 or ESPNU

You can have your 2 extra channels and watch billiards or womens tennis.

Say what?

Lets get a listing of both channels today:

ESPNU- Ohio State vs Indiana football game. TCU football game later in the day. Southern Miss vs Virginia Tech

ESPN2HD - Penn State vs Illinois. Rutgers vs Pittsburgh (should be a great game). Fresno State vs LSU. All in HD.

If none of those games interest you then you are not a true sports fan.

Why dont you post the scores of those games later today also.....

I on the other hand will post the scores of the major network games

There is a reason Ohio State is on there today.....because they are playing Indiana and the score will be 70-3

Pitt - Rutgers would be ok for a Thursday night game....

What are you going to do - skip the Michigan - Iowa game or the Clemson -GT game or Alabama - Tennessee or BC - FSU to got watch Rutgers?

Give me a break

Last November, I think FCC moved up the schedule a bit, Here's what paragraph #1 of the following document from FCC (2nd report+order on this matter, From November 2005) says :

"1.1. By this action, the Commission is modifying its rules to advance the date on which new television receivers with screen sizes 13-24” and certain other TV receiving devices such as VCRs and digital video recorders must include the capability to receive broadcast digital television signals from the current date of July 1, 2007 to March 1, 2007. The Commission is also amending its rules to apply the digital television reception capability requirement to new receivers with screen sizes smaller than 13” on this same schedule. The DTV reception requirement, which also often is termed the “DTV tuner requirement,” is being implemented under an approach that applies it first to large screen receivers and then progressively to smaller screen receivers and other devices over a period of several years.1 The modifications made herein affect the final step of this phase-in plan.2 With these changes, the scheduled implementation plan will provide for all new TV receiver equipment to include digital reception capability as of March 1, 2007."


Full document here:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-190A1.pdf

---------------

Don't know if there have been any modifications to the above, I don't think so, but I'm not sure. As I recall, the CE companies may have done some whining about it back at the time.




Here's what I do, in case it gives you any ideas :

Option #1).This is similar to what Terry mentioned concerning DVHS deck -- but instead of DVHS, I use a PC instead -- "Record" OTA HD (or SD - works for any ATSC) via Firewire from Sony KD34XBR960 HDTV's internal tuner to a PC. For Playback, I use component (or DVI-I out to HDMI input on TV) out from ATI Radeon X1600 - There should actually be a way to do it via firewire as well, but I haven't found a way to do that yet using XP. The MCE PC has SPDIF out for audio which I run to audio receiver, so I get DD 5.1/etc. A seperate ATSC tuner card(or USB tuner)on the PC would be even nicer, and I might go that route at some point since those can be picked up these days for well under $100. What's also nice about this is with the right tools, you can do such things as edit the transport/program streams(such as to remove commercials), transcode to other formats (such as to archive onto DVD/etc). Do make sure you have a large hard disk+a PC capable of smooth HD playback .. Recording wise, it doesn't take much horsepower, as basically all you are doing is capturing(at most) a 19.39Mb/s stream .... For me, this turned out to be quite inexpensive to implement(actually, the only thing I had to pay for "specifically" for this purpose were the cables to hook between PC+TV), as I already had the other hardware for other purposes ...the big problem here may involve how close the PC is to the display(for me the PC is actually in another room), and running the cables ....

Option #2). It isn't HD, but, with SVHS Close to DVD quality* results: Output 16x9 NTSC video at 480i from ATSC STB(Specifically, I'm using Zenith HDV420, or Hisense(USDTV) DB-2010 using those receivers "squeeze" Aspect ratio functions -- Send this to SVHS VCR's S-video or composite video input -- When you play it back, use your 16x9 display's "full mode" to "stretch" it back out for proper AR, which works(more or less) just like a widescreen "anamorphic" DVD ... You of course can record 4x3 SD digital "normally" via this method as well, or use your STB's Letterbox Aspect ratio control for HD/etc(although you'll lose a lot of resolution this way) ... This will work with any "analog" VCR(composite input as well), but you'll get much better results with SVHS deck/SVHS tapes, which do about 400 lines of resolution, about twice the resolution of VHS (in other words, it will work with VHS, but it will have the normal VHS "fuzziness" ...

Unfortunetly, I'm not seeing many SVHS decks out there these days ... I'd think(hope anyway) You could do pretty much do the same with a DVD recorder, although it would be nicer if you didn't convert to analog before going to digital on the DVD ....

* - For instance, If I use Option #1, then transcode HD to 480i(played back as 480p is usually my preference) and burn it to DVD, and do a comparision to a recording(same protgramming) using Option #2 and SVHS --- Certianly, the DVD generally looks a little better, but not by a lot ... Also, For the DVD's -- I'm still searching for a better software encoder(or a better way to use what I'm using currently) for the transcoding to 480i, as the same sorts of problem that was occuring with WCPO's "jaggies" can easily occur when you transcode 1080i or 720p to 480i/p for DVD ...

---------------------------




I hope something like that doesn't become too widespread ... My current HD recording "options" mentioned above are more of a "try to make the best use of what I have" deal as I'm waiting to see what happens -- perhaps things will become clearer after the tuner mandate goes into full effect concerning what OTA HD recording options are going to be available .... Of course, another thing I'm looking at is wondering when/if many stations are ever going to get their PSIP "EPG" act together in such a way it could actually be useful when selecting which programs to record/etc ....

At the very least, I'd want a OTA HD DVR+DVD Recorder(recorder for whatever HD DVD format becomes "the standard" someday would be even better), OR a DVHS deck with at least ATSC receiver, either of which would need to output HD via component or HDMI ... You'd think they should be able to do that for $300 or less ... I've been thinking about DVHS for quite sometime, and that indeed would seem to fit my requirements more than any other current option --- but having used "beta" in the early 80's .. well, you get the idea ...

While I do use E* currently(SD only - no reason to get the locals via the dish either), and I'm happy with what I'm getting from them -- I'm not sure I'm going to keep it (or any such provider) in any sort of permanent fashion(especially as the rates rise) as the amount of programming I watch, or would ever care to watch that isn't available OTA isn't very significant(and most of that is available via DVD) .... So, I'd really prefer to keep the important stuff(OTA and the hardware involved) "seperate" from what I do with E*(or any provider) ...



Thanks for the info guys but I"m looking for a all in one device under $300 and will wait a year or two if need be. I'd imagine that by the analog cutoff date, there will be some decent options for recording OTA digital transimisions.

Is there a problem with WXIX DT right now. I can't get a signal on 19.1 or 19.2 and I know it was there this morning. I've tried my HR10-250 and the tuner on the TV with no luck. Anyone else?

Yes, WXIX-DT is currently off the air (3:55pm EDT) -- Unless they're running a few watts through their exciter or someting .... Not a PSIP issue, as getting no signal from them on 29 ... Analog is still up though, as is WPTO-DT(currently transmits from same tower) ...

Why dont you post the scores of those games later today also.....

I on the other hand will post the scores of the major network games

There is a reason Ohio State is on there today.....because they are playing Indiana and the score will be 70-3

Pitt - Rutgers would be ok for a Thursday night game....

What are you going to do - skip the Michigan - Iowa game or the Clemson -GT game or Alabama - Tennessee or BC - FSU to got watch Rutgers?

Give me a break

Actually, as a big college football fan I will watch all of the games. I'll flip back and forth, see what is going on during each game.

Once college basketball season starts there will be a ton of good games on both ESPN2 and ESPNU. Once the NBA games start on ESPN, ESPN2 will pick up a lot of big college basketball games.

Sorry, both those channels are important to me, both will have big games on this season.

Yes, WXIX-DT is currently off the air (3:55pm EDT) -- Unless they're running a few watts through their exciter or someting .... Not a PSIP issue, as getting no signal from them on 29 ... Analog is still up though, as is WPTO-DT(currently transmits from same tower) ...

Thanks. I just got the update to my HR10-250 this morning, and was going to check if I had some of the problems reported mostly on Fox. Hope they're back up for the games tomorrow. Or for the game tonight, almost forgot about that.

WXIX-DT seems to be back up. (5:33pm EDT) Now I get to see if I get the dreaded audio drop outs.

no audio dropouts here on 19.1 with 6.3a - just got it yesterday too!

my audio drop-outs on 19-1 seemed to have disappeared for the moment-both the series last night & FNS this am is fine...fingers crossed...
Also, I can't find the new hr20 (is the hr700 the same box?) anywhere. Any ideas on where to find it? (BB's out) -especially the ota enabled box...bluegrass is scheduled to install 2 boxes tuesday but I'm not confident they'll have 'em (let alone the ota enabled box)...

my audio drop-outs on 19-1 seemed to have disappeared for the moment-both the series last night & FNS this am is fine...fingers crossed...
Also, I can't find the new hr20 (is the hr700 the same box?) anywhere. Any ideas on where to find it? (BB's out) -especially the ota enabled box...bluegrass is scheduled to install 2 boxes tuesday but I'm not confident they'll have 'em (let alone the ota enabled box)...


From what I have read, the OTA on the HR20 is not yet enabled, and may not be before the end of the year. I think the model is HR20-700. It seems they are sold out all over the country.

Watching the pre-pre-game show on WXIX-DT, and just had a dropout during the Chad Johnson segment. Dropouts during sports don't bother me so much right now, as long as this gets fixed before 24 in January.

anyone else losing WXIX-DT signal? It's disappeared twice during the game so far.

I lost it for about 1 minute in the second quarter.. been fine ever since

[QUOTE=psm0110]anyone else losing WXIX-DT signal? It's disappeared twice during the game so far.[/QUOTE

Yes, I lost the signal also, both digital and analog channels

chris - no ota yet on the new hd dvr.. they are saying end of the year.. of course they were origianlly saying early october.. the hr20-700 referes the the manufaturer.. in this case 700 is pace. they are the only ones making the hr20. Not sure about stock.. from what most have said, installers have a good supply, but who knows!

jim

my audio drop-outs on 19-1 seemed to have disappeared for the moment-both the series last night & FNS this am is fine...fingers crossed...
Also, I can't find the new hr20 (is the hr700 the same box?) anywhere. Any ideas on where to find it? (BB's out) -especially the ota enabled box...bluegrass is scheduled to install 2 boxes tuesday but I'm not confident they'll have 'em (let alone the ota enabled box)...

Watching the pre-pre-game show on WXIX-DT, and just had a dropout during the Chad Johnson segment. Dropouts during sports don't bother me so much right now, as long as this gets fixed before 24 in January.
What happens on Jan. 24th. The Super Bowl is on February 4th in Miami.

What happens on Jan. 24th. The Super Bowl is on February 4th in Miami.

The season premier of "24" is January 14th. :)

well - i spoke to soon - I have dropouts on fox ota only.. damn 6.3a - wonder how long until 6.3b is out :(

WKRC on TW 912 is broadcasting Coldcase in SD and not HD. I guess the janitors are in charge of the control room again on Sunday night

10:10 PM. WKRC on TW912 is now transmitting "Without a Trace" in SD and not in HD. Do the control room guys just leave and go home on Sunday evenings?

jdhughes63,

So, in the hour between your two complaints have you bothered to call WKRC?

jdhughes63,

So, in the hour between your two complaints have you bothered to call WKRC?

Would it help? I have emailed them. No answer. I am not sure who to call.

Would it help? I have emailed them. No answer. I am not sure who to call.

Phone numbers and instructions can be found on the first page of this thread.

Phone numbers and instructions can be found on the first page of this thread.
That number is for their news room and here is what they say about calling their newsroom about other WKRC problems. It is quoted from their webpage.

**IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENT FOR LOCAL 12, WKRC-TV, WE RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT YOU NOT CALL THE LOCAL 12 NEWSROOM. THEY CANNOT ANSWER QUESTIONS PERTAINING TO THE PROGRAMMING SCHEDULE OR TONIGHT'S BROADCAST SCHEDULE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH

It appears they would rather not be bothered.

Yes I understand that is their newsroom number. If you're concerned about the lack of HD broadcasts call that number. Personally I'm watching the Tigers and could care less what KRC is doing, but have been known to call our affiliates when they miss their switches. Like the post on the first page says, be polite and ask for the control room or if they can pass a message to the control room saying they haven't switched to the HD feed.

Calling now would be a little late, but next time call.

EDIT: Did prime time start late due to a football game? That would prevent them from broadcasting in HD (assuming other markets started on time). Was any of their broadcast in HD this evening?

EDIT: Did prime time start late due to a football game? That would prevent them from broadcasting in HD (assuming other markets started on time). Was any of their broadcast in HD this evening?

Yes, prime time started 10 min late due to the football game. Only about 20% of Eastern/Central time even had a 4:00 game.

Yes, prime time started 10 min late due to the football game. Only about 20% of Eastern/Central time even had a 4:00 game.CBS pre-feeds primetime in HD to affiliates who have afternoon games on non-double-header weekends. But not all affiliates have the timeshifting equipment. It's not an issue on doubleheader weekends where CBS "collects" all of the Eastern-Central markets into the game that's running the longest. They'll do the same thing when most of the Eastern-Central zones are getting a late game.

Doc

EDIT: Did prime time start late due to a football game? That would prevent them from broadcasting in HD (assuming other markets started on time). Was any of their broadcast in HD this evening?

You may have found the solution. The shows started late. The late shows may have not been a direct network feed but a taped delay in the studio. I have learned that these stations can't tape and delay HD as has been proven by WCPO's abiulity not to capture a weeks worth of Jeopardy in HD and feed it back.

...audio drop-outs were back last night during series on my "new & inproved" 6.3 software for my hr10...ugh

...went okay last Friday! After missing their window yet again, I called D* and they in turn called Bluegrass. After telling us that it will still be in the afternoon, Bluegrass miraculously came back and found a technician that could be here within an hour. The install went well and took 3 hours to change out the dish, run a dual through the attic and to the foundation, and get the HR20 up and running.

My first impressions of the HR20 are good. I have had only a couple of the documented freezes and audio dropouts. But really no biggies. The HD locals look great!!! I suspect they may look different than in other markets. I have the OTA connected to the TV, but would prefer D* to get its act together and turn on the HR20 OTA tuner.

Hello all,
I am a new memeber here and i have a question. I live in a 5 story building on the 2nd floor surrounded by trees. I am on top of a hill. I have Dish Netowrk and am trying to get local HD channels through OTA. I tried many antennas but i cant seem to get ABC, i can get all the other channels. I cant put an antenna on top of the builidng so i have to use an indoor antenna, What is my problem? I have an HD-DVR Vip 622 I guess. Any help would be appreciated. (Been on antennaweb but could not figure out what I needed or what to ask for when i go to Radio Shack.)

Thanks !!

Masrico,

Welcome. I also have a DISH ViP622. Great receiver, isn't it?

WCPO-DT transmits on VHF channel 10 (it appears as 009-01 on your 622). All the rest of the digital channels are UHF. Most likely your antenna is UHF only and that is why you aren't receiving it. I am using a VHF/UHF antenna and WCPO-DT comes in with a signal strength of 97 on my 622.

I have the same receiver and have never been able to get WCPO HD over the air. Luckily, I'm on the north side of town so I can get ABC HD from the Dayton affiliate. I use a powered set of "rabbit ears" with good results of Cincinnati and Dayton stations.

Good luck!

// Scott A

It is my understanding that ordering D* directly from D* is a colossally bad idea. If I were interested in ordering D* who should I order it though locally? Who are the best installers in the area?

If I already have a basic D*dish on my house and lines ran to all my TV locations from the previous owners, does selecting a good installer really matter?

Upon further review of D*'s pricing I found that if I only sub to their sports pack for 5months it becomes a negligible difference in cost between TWC and D* so now I'm motivated to switch, but only if I can get a HR20.

terry - i have had the best luck directly from D* - they will send a local installer - usually bluegrass in our area to do the work

Good luck trying to get a HR20. My neighbor was told that they are backordered until late November or early December.

Oh, yeah I know. While i'm motivated, i'm not in a hurry.

LP DTV update :

The Digital flash cut application filed by TBN LP Translator W36DG Cincinnati has been granted by FCC -- It's 5 KW ERP on Channel 36(obviously) with directional antenna pattern, from same location as current analog facilities -- the construction permit expires 10/19/2009.

WOTH-LP on 10/10/06 - has filed an application with FCC for constructon permit concerning it's digital companion channel application for digital channel 47 - the next step in the "Process" for them. They're asking for 15KW ERP, Non- directional antenna pattern from a nice high spot on WCPO's tower

------------------------------------

W56AM, KET LP translator, Falmouth KY has filed an application for construction permit concerning it's digital companion channel application for digital channel 23 - the next step in the process for them. It's for 800 Watts with Directional antenna pattern. More info can be found at the "info" and "application" links here:

----------------------------------

W27AT , A current Construction permit for a analog facility on channel 27 with Columbia, IN as Community of license - Has filed for Construction Permit(CP) for a DTV facility on Channel 6 - 300 Watts, Directional antenna with a coverage area Including Southwest Ohio and portions of Eastern Indiana - The DTV application specifies a transmitting location Just South of Oxford, Ohio instead of near Connersville, IN as is the case with the analog station's current construction permit. AFAIK, the analog station is not on the air yet.

----------------------------------

W20CL, TBN LP translator, Springfield, Ohio has filed for CP for Digital station on Channel 24 - 15KW ERP, Non-directional antenna pattern. I mention this one here as note that Full service station WCVN-DT(KET) Covington, KY also transmits on Channel 24, and according to the predicted service contours, the 41 db contours of these 2 stations are awfully "close" to each other Just SW OF Dayton, OH.

-----------------------------------

W66AQ - Dayton LP analog translator for WSTR 64 filed an application to move to channel 22 by repurposing WKEF 22 Dayton(full service station - ABC affiliate) existing facilities and using them for an analog LP station(W66AQ currently) instead. I assume they mean for after analog shut off for full service stations, currently scheduled for Feburary 2009. I would also assume they would transistion W66AQ to digital at some point as well ...

W17AA, Celina OH(LP translator for WPTD 16 PBS Dayton) Filed a digital flash cut application in Spring 2006, as of 11/1/06, it hasn't been granted yet. I mention this only for "completeness", as I'm listing info concerning the other Cincy/Dayton LP's here as well.

-----------------------

Note that the "new" applications filed earlier this year by W56AM, WOTH-LP, W27AT and W20CL concerning digital companion channels were on a list recently released by FCC which indicated proposals which were found to NOT be mutually exlusive with other proposals.

---------------------------

Note also earlier this year WBQC-CA filed a digital companion channel app seeking DTV channel 20, and KET Translator W56AT, Augusta, KY also filed a digital companion channel app seeking DTV channel 20. Neither of those were on FCC's recently released "non-mutually exlusive" proposal list, so they will have a little different, "longer" road to follow than the other stations listed above ...

-----------------------------

Note that as of 11/1/06 - The following LP stations in the area have yet to file a DTV application with FCC(according to FCC site) : W17AY Seaman, OH(Tranquility Community Church), WRCX-LP 40 Dayton(MBC/IND), WWRD-LP 55 Dayton(Gospel Music Channel), and W63AH(LP translator for WPTD 16 Dayton), Maplewood, OH.

-----------------------------------

I wonder which one will end up being the first LP DTV station in our area on the air? W36DG would certianly seem to have the "advantage" currently, but keep in mind they have until October 2009 before their Construction permit to build the digital station expires ...

Does anyone have cable in the ex-Adelphia area that is now TWC? They seem to have made a cut over last night and I cannot get WKRC and WXIX in HD over QAM. I get WLWT, WCET, KET, and WCPO but neither of the prior.

Does anyone have cable in the ex-Adelphia area that is now TWC? They seem to have made a cut over last night and I cannot get WKRC and WXIX in HD over QAM. I get WLWT, WCET, KET, and WCPO but neither of the prior.

I don't have TV, but have high-speed cable internet through TWC (formerly Adelphia) and the last two days (Tues/Wed) my connection was very flakey. Not sure if this might be related or not. Today, everything has been fine.

Does anyone have cable in the ex-Adelphia area that is now TWC? They seem to have made a cut over last night and I cannot get WKRC and WXIX in HD over QAM. I get WLWT, WCET, KET, and WCPO but neither of the prior.



Mine stopped too, I can't get WLWT, WCET, WCPO or FOX. I was getting fox on Ch-128.1 Wcpo 128.2 WLW 129.2 Wkrc 129.3. What were your on? Hope they come back. I wonder if they moved them?

Update

I rescanned the channels through TV setup and got them all back. Ch 5 reg TV ch 5.1 is HD same with Ch 9 but ch 12 and Fox are in the 114.xx forget what they were but they are HD. I run my cable right to the TV, no cable box.

Here is what I have found for the ex-Adelphia now TWC area (I am in Maineville).

5-1 - 105-1
5-2
9-1 - 114-1
48-1 - 109-1
48-2
48-3

I have not found WXIX or WKRC yet though.

Here is what I have found for the ex-Adelphia now TWC area (I am in Maineville).

5-1 - 105-1
5-2
9-1 - 114-1
48-1 - 109-1
48-2
48-3

I have not found WXIX or WKRC yet though.


WKRC 114.21 Fox 109.2 The Tube 109.28 CW 114.22

I am near Mainville too :D

None of those work for me. I wonder if it is the channel maping problem that I have had in the past with my Toshiba 42HP95 with TWC. It worked great with Adelphia but does not work with TWC for some reason.

None of those work for me. I wonder if it is the channel maping problem that I have had in the past with my Toshiba 42HP95 with TWC. It worked great with Adelphia but does not work with TWC for some reason.


We are still getting the old Adelphia cable TV (Under Time Warner), I don’t think they put us on the Cincinnati Time Warner yet, that’s why Cincinnati is getting cable stations on totally different channels then we do not using quam. Did you do a rescan on your TV? I’ll have to check but when I sent the last post they were working for me ok. Maybe it’s the order it find’s them in that is different of our TV’s. Mine may be putting them in a different spot than yours. The first scan I did they all were different and I bet if I scanned again some would move around depending on how many it finds. My first scan found like 143 quam channels and my second scan only found 111 channels so it put them on different channels too.

I just got the Sony 55E2000 about a week ago, good deal at CC for 1499.

Another Saturday is here and another OSU game in Standard Def. Apparantly ABC is not sending in HD format (again). I purchased HD for the football season and so far it seems most of the Bengals and Buckeye games are in SD.

Maybe next year.

I purchased HD for the football season and so far it seems most of the Bengals and Buckeye games are in SD.

Well, I can tell you that the next three Bengals games will be in HD (at least from the networks). Tomorrow's game (10/29) is on FOX and the two weeks after than CBS has them on the schedule for HD. If the people at WKRC don't fall asleep or have problems with their switching equipment like they have on every HD Bengals game this year we might be able to see the entire game in HD (and, yes, that was a swipe at WKRC).

Well, I can tell you that the next three Bengals games will be in HD (at least from the networks). Tomorrow's game (10/29) is on FOX and the two weeks after than CBS has them on the schedule for HD. If the people at WKRC don't fall asleep or have problems with their switching equipment like they have on every HD Bengals game this year we might be able to see the entire game in HD (and, yes, that was a swipe at WKRC).
I have been told that all HD games that sometimes end up as SD games here are not always the fault of a sleeping station engineer. If the network feed is delayed then sometimes the game and even the evenings commercial broadcasting ends up in SD and not HD. Apparently it is a technical issue. Something similar happens to the Jeopardy HD feed. Local stations can not time delay HD programming. They can only send out live feed HD.

I have absolutely no inside knowledge, but I bet abc won't broadcast much in hd because they're owned by disney, proud sponsors of the ESPNU blackmail technique, which occasionally keeps the bucks off the air completely, let alone hd. why wouldn't they use this to drive more viewers to ESPNHD?

just my 2 cents

I can't remember the last time Ohio State wasn't on TV. I don't remember it happening within the past 5 years.

Just because Ohio State is number one doesn't mean all of their games should be in HD. Minnesota is a terrible team, there was no need to waste their HD resources to show that game. Of the games left only Michigan should be HD, IMO, because there are too many other good games around the country that should get first choice.

Of the games left only Michigan should be HD.
No question about it. All Ohio State games remaining should be in High Def.

In fact all nationally transmitted games should be in HD. It's the whole reason we have HD

No question about it. All Ohio State games remaining should be in High Def.

In fact all nationally transmitted games should be in HD. It's the whole reason we have HD

Once they have the equipment to do all of their games in HD, yes. Until then I would rather they pick and choose the best games available each week. Just because the team is no. 1 doesn't mean the game should be in HD. There is no reason to put a game on in HD when it will be over before halftime (such as the last 2 OSU games).

Well, I can tell you that the next three Bengals games will be in HD (at least from the networks). Tomorrow's game (10/29) is on FOX and the two weeks after than CBS has them on the schedule for HD. If the people at WKRC don't fall asleep or have problems with their switching equipment like they have on every HD Bengals game this year we might be able to see the entire game in HD (and, yes, that was a swipe at WKRC).

Speaking of WKRC... does anyone have the HD locals from DirecTV and notice an issue w/ WKRC?

I'm not sure what the problem is... but it's similar to a weak signal in that I get digital artifacts popping up fairly regularly. All other HD locals are fine so it's not a question of signal strength (or my TV) as they all come from the same satallite.

Just curious if anyone else w/ DirecTV has noticed such an issue...

We are still getting the old Adelphia cable TV (Under Time Warner), I don’t think they put us on the Cincinnati Time Warner yet, that’s why Cincinnati is getting cable stations on totally different channels then we do not using quam. Did you do a rescan on your TV? I’ll have to check but when I sent the last post they were working for me ok. Maybe it’s the order it find’s them in that is different of our TV’s. Mine may be putting them in a different spot than yours. The first scan I did they all were different and I bet if I scanned again some would move around depending on how many it finds. My first scan found like 143 quam channels and my second scan only found 111 channels so it put them on different channels too.

I just got the Sony 55E2000 about a week ago, good deal at CC for 1499.


The reason that I said I am now on TWC is because they changed the digital channel locations. All of the channels work through my Motorola HD box still but now the HD channels have changed locations on the QAM side. I used to be able to get 128.1-3 and 129.1-2 for all of the local HD channels and they never remapped to their 5-1, 5-2, etc. I also never had 5-2 before when it was just Adelphia. This is why I feel that TWC is starting to make changes to the Adelphia system. I used to have TWC in Loveland and my TV had a hard time picking up some of the channels due to the way TWC broadcasted the channels and it looks like I am having the same problem again where I enter in the channel and it is remapped to a different channel than I intended to go to.

The reason that I said I am now on TWC is because they changed the digital channel locations. All of the channels work through my Motorola HD box still but now the HD channels have changed locations on the QAM side. I used to be able to get 128.1-3 and 129.1-2 for all of the local HD channels and they never remapped to their 5-1, 5-2, etc. I also never had 5-2 before when it was just Adelphia. This is why I feel that TWC is starting to make changes to the Adelphia system. I used to have TWC in Loveland and my TV had a hard time picking up some of the channels due to the way TWC broadcasted the channels and it looks like I am having the same problem again where I enter in the channel and it is remapped to a different channel than I intended to go to.

They may have changed it over, all I have is basic cable and all my channels are still were they were without the new tv. One think I have been getting for the last month and mainly at night but also day just not as bad I get lines, rolling light gray lines, and herringbone. Just a very poor picture, still see it with the new TV but not as bad and not at all on a HD channel. Time Warner can’t seem to find out why. I’m getting ready to get a satellite disk and been looking to see what one has the better picture. I put up with a poor picture for 2 years with Adelphia and I’m not going to do the same with Time Warner. Seems like if no one else is griping about it, it would have to be from my box outside to the line running in. So for the cost of Time Warner not running a line they will lose my cable part of my service. You don’t have to have cable to keep the high speed, which seems fine most the time. I hope the channels don’t keep moving but I should have a dish real soon, as soon as I see what one is best. Not into sports to much so that part don’t really matter to me. Hope you find all the channels, they sure can hide with all the music channels that show up.

Any one recommend what satellite dish company gets the best picture?
Thanks

They may have changed it over, all I have is basic cable and all my channels are still were they were without the new tv. One think I have been getting for the last month and mainly at night but also day just not as bad I get lines, rolling light gray lines, and herringbone. Just a very poor picture, still see it with the new TV but not as bad and not at all on a HD channel. Time Warner can’t seem to find out why. I’m getting ready to get a satellite disk and been looking to see what one has the better picture. I put up with a poor picture for 2 years with Adelphia and I’m not going to do the same with Time Warner. Seems like if no one else is griping about it, it would have to be from my box outside to the line running in. So for the cost of Time Warner not running a line they will lose my cable part of my service. You don’t have to have cable to keep the high speed, which seems fine most the time. I hope the channels don’t keep moving but I should have a dish real soon, as soon as I see what one is best. Not into sports to much so that part don’t really matter to me. Hope you find all the channels, they sure can hide with all the music channels that show up.

I also have the same picture problem that you have. In fact it is happening right now. I mainly see it on the lower channels 3-10 and the upper channels 60s. I also used to have a problem with my HD channels dropping out with my TV and with my HD box. It seems that has subsided with TWC taking over in the past month.

Any one recommend what satellite dish company gets the best picture?
Thanks

Currently Dish Network (they also offer the most). In a year DirecTV may be the best, however, due to new satellites they are launching.

Currently Dish Network (they also offer the most). In a year DirecTV may be the best, however, due to new satellites they are launching.
I looked at DISH a few days ago. They do have a lot of HD programming. However, their ABC, CBS, and NBC channels are SD with promises that it will change in the future.

Their receiver has a built in OTA tuner that works pretty good. Depending on where you live you should not have too big of a problem pulling those channels in with a cheap antenna.

Their receiver has a built in OTA tuner that works pretty good. Depending on where you live you should not have too big of a problem pulling those channels in with a cheap antenna.

How many OTA tuners does the ViP622 have? In other words, can the users of this device record two digital OTA channels at the same time?

How many OTA tuners does the ViP622 have? In other words, can the users of this device record two digital OTA channels at the same time?

I have not yet made the switch from TWC to Dish (will most likely happen very soon), but AFAIK, the ViP622 has 1 OTA tuner. So, you'll be able to record 1 OTA in HD, and use the 2 satelite tuners for 2 additional HD channels, while watching a 4th already-saved program.

I was a little disappointed at first that I'd only be able to record 1 local in HD (compared to 2 w/ the 8300HD from TWC), but I'll subscribe to the locals and just record 1 of the 2 in SD, still leaving another satelite tuner open. Worst case, I go into the other room where I'll have a 2nd receiver and watch it live.

Giving up Howard Stern On Demand and local channels will be tough, but with the prices I'm paying TWC (nearly $190/month), it's a no-brainer for me to switch. The only thing holding me back is looking into keeping RoadRunner or switching to ZoomTown.

Sorry for the long post.

AFAIK, the ViP622 has 1 OTA tuner. So, you'll be able to record 1 OTA in HD, and use the 2 satelite tuners for 2 additional HD channels, while watching a 4th already-saved program.

Yes, that is correct.

Local dealers that sell DISH Network are saying that DISH will be adding the Cincinnati HD locals (via satellite) by the end of the year. I really think that it will be after the first of the year (next spring?) before they add them.

I have had my ViP622 since February and IMHO it is a great receiver. It had some bugs early on but the software updates have taken care of them.

HH GREGG told me ABC, CBS, and NBC (local channels) be HD the end of this month, but they may have just wanted me to buy now. Hope they will be, I think I will get Dish real soon.

Regarding TWC, I am of the opinion that their overall picture quality has suffered since they went entirely digital. I don't know if the HD channels have changed but they were feeding us a strong analog picture before and now I think they've strained the bandwidth limits of their system by making everything digital.

We had Adelphia it was not a great picture, when Time Warner took over it went down hill fast. I was looking forward to TWC taking over as other places we lived they always had a very good picture. Not here in Warren County. I friend that lives about 3 miles away said his is bad too but he is not a big TV watcher. He is still going to switch to satellite TV when I do. Cable just has poor service along with the poor picture and I guess they think we will just get used to it. Not me, cost to much and I have a clear view of the south west. I need to call and find out how lone it takes to get a dish installed.

i just set my father in law up with directv last night.. his install is next wednesday

i just set my father in law up with directv last night.. his install is next wednesday

If he had cable let me know if the picture looks better with directv. Dish has HGTV in HD, could you see if it's HD with directv if he gets the HD stuff.

Thanks

I just set up my DishHD Platinum with a ViP622 and ViP211. Install is tomorrow, very nice turn around time.

First 3 months (after credits): $79 before taxes
Next 7 months (after credits): $90 before taxes
Remaining months: $110 before taxes

I will also most likely be switching to ZoomTown from RoadRunner for $20/month for 12 months (already have home & cell phone bundled). I'm paying $190/month to TWC for a LOT less.

We'll see once things are hooked up tomorrow and I'll be able to compare PQ between the two (52" RPTV and 32" LCD).

HH GREGG told me ABC, CBS, and NBC (local channels) be HD the end of this month, but they may have just wanted me to buy now. Hope they will be, I think I will get Dish real soon.

I hate to rain on the Dish HD parade (I'm a Dish subscriber) but SatelliteGuys just posted that Dish is offering a special promotion on HD OTA antenna's for some cities including Cincinnati (www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=80797).

I think this is an effort to keep HD users happy because it won't be offered off the Dish for a while.

By the way, if anyone with experience with OTA antennas could follow the link and recommend a model, I'd be grateful.

// Scott A

Concerning what is on that list --- The Winegard HD7084(with rotor if you want both Cincinnati+Dayton) would be a good choice for our area -- It's medium sized VHF/UHF antenna :

http://www.winegard.com/offair/vhfuhf.htm

HD9095 would be a good choice for a UHF only antenna(say, for Dayton DTV only) :

http://www.winegard.com/offair/uhf.htm

Personally, I'd punt on the others, although almost any antenna outdoors is usually better than the best of antenna indoors .....

TW WLWT-HD 905 is not showing HD on SVU tonight. Whenever they switch the HD on, the picture is really poor.

I hate to rain on the Dish HD parade (I'm a Dish subscriber) but SatelliteGuys just posted that Dish is offering a special promotion on HD OTA antenna's for some cities including Cincinnati (www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=80797).

I think this is an effort to keep HD users happy because it won't be offered off the Dish for a while.

By the way, if anyone with experience with OTA antennas could follow the link and recommend a model, I'd be grateful.

// Scott A

Well I sure do hope they are talking about Cincinnati, in Iowa, but I bet it's Ohio

I'm in need of finding someone to build a custom entertainment center for the great room. Do any of you guys know of someone who builds them? I'm going to include a couple Middle Atlantic racks, so I need someone who can integrate all of that stuff, plus make it look good too. Thanks

So.. I've been up and running on my E* setup since Wednesday afternoon, and I must say, I love it! Still have TWC, will keep it until my ZoomTown is activated, and the wife and I finish watching a couple things left on the 8300HD DVR.

I called E* on Halloween afternoon, setup my DishHD Platinum + ViP622 + ViP211 + locals, and was told the installer would be out the next day noon to 5. Installer showed up, mounted the Dish1000 and at my request ran new lines to my living room and bedroom, instead of using the existing RG6 in the walls for TWC.

The DVR is simply great! Blows the 8300HD out of the water, in my opinion. I love the fact that I can record from 2 Sat tuners + the OTA tuner. The bedroom has the ViP211, but it also has a coax run to the ViP622 for dual-mode. It's nice to watch live HD in the bedroom, but also be able to watch things off the DVR (even though HD is downconverted to 480i, but hey, can't complain).

I've been very pleased with the PQ of the HD channels, even the downrezzed channels. Have not noticed any macroblocking or artifacts on any of the channels. I have an indoor anteana in each room for the HD locals, and I can pull everything in from Cincinnati and Dayton except WCPO, without needing to adjust. Not having WCPO is fine since I can get 22 in Dayton fine.

I can't believe I didn't make the switch from TWC sooner. The only thing I don't have that I had with TWC, that I even notice, is Howard Stern On Demand and the INHD's. I've been watching less and less of HSOD lately, and there is the chance that E* will get INHD. Either way, it's a very acceptable trade-off.

Sorry for the long post.. byebye TWC! :)

WCPO-DT is having the same sound issues again tonight during the game. Sounds like the sound is coming out of a pipe. I compared to WKEF-DT and it sounds normal. Please write an email to WCPO if you can.

Congrats TSC... glad you have seen the light :). It takes everyone a while to find their way to a new provider from Time Warner, but nobody I know who has switched has been disappointed in the change.

"No true sports fan would want TW"

Any true sports fan knows that there is nothing worth watching ever on ESPN2 or ESPNU

You can have your 2 extra channels and watch billiards or womens tennis.

I just thought I'd point out that while ESPN/HD was showing the Breeders Cup all day yesterday, ESPN2/HD was showing Maryland at Clemson, Ohio State at Illinois, and Boston College at Wake Forest. All in HD, all were great games.

ESPNU had the Georgia Tech @ NC State game (another good game), Ball State at Michigan, and Purdue at Michigan State. 2 nationally ranked teams that had tough games...

But of course, any true sports fan knows that there is nothing ever worth watching on ESPN2 or ESPNU.

[QUOTE=mlbUC]I just thought I'd point out that while ESPN/HD was showing the Breeders Cup all day yesterday, ESPN2/HD was showing Maryland at Clemson, Ohio State at Illinois, and Boston College at Wake Forest. All in HD, all were great games.

Not sure where you saw those games. The TW in Miami Township, Clermont county while carrying ESPN1 and ESPN2 only carry ESPN1 in HD
ESPN1 SD on TW30
ESPN2 SD on TW31
ESPN1 HD on TW975, If ESPN2 is in HD somewhere on my TW then I haven't found it. I would have liked to get the Ohio State game in HD and not SD.

I am hoping that the Bengals game at 1300 on TW-912 will actually be in HD as advertized

So.. I've been up and running on my E* setup since Wednesday afternoon, and I must say, I love it! Still have TWC, will keep it until my ZoomTown is activated, and the wife and I finish watching a couple things left on the 8300HD DVR.

I called E* on Halloween afternoon, setup my DishHD Platinum + ViP622 + ViP211 + locals, and was told the installer would be out the next day noon to 5. Installer showed up, mounted the Dish1000 and at my request ran new lines to my living room and bedroom, instead of using the existing RG6 in the walls for TWC.

The DVR is simply great! Blows the 8300HD out of the water, in my opinion. I love the fact that I can record from 2 Sat tuners + the OTA tuner. The bedroom has the ViP211, but it also has a coax run to the ViP622 for dual-mode. It's nice to watch live HD in the bedroom, but also be able to watch things off the DVR (even though HD is downconverted to 480i, but hey, can't complain).

I've been very pleased with the PQ of the HD channels, even the downrezzed channels. Have not noticed any macroblocking or artifacts on any of the channels. I have an indoor anteana in each room for the HD locals, and I can pull everything in from Cincinnati and Dayton except WCPO, without needing to adjust. Not having WCPO is fine since I can get 22 in Dayton fine.

I can't believe I didn't make the switch from TWC sooner. The only thing I don't have that I had with TWC, that I even notice, is Howard Stern On Demand and the INHD's. I've been watching less and less of HSOD lately, and there is the chance that E* will get INHD. Either way, it's a very acceptable trade-off.

Sorry for the long post.. byebye TWC! :)

How does the picture quality compare in regards to the non HD channels like CNN, Fox News, etc?

[QUOTE=mlbUC]I just thought I'd point out that while ESPN/HD was showing the Breeders Cup all day yesterday, ESPN2/HD was showing Maryland at Clemson, Ohio State at Illinois, and Boston College at Wake Forest. All in HD, all were great games.

Not sure where you saw those games. The TW in Miami Township, Clermont county while carrying ESPN1 and ESPN2 only carry ESPN1 in HD
ESPN1 SD on TW30
ESPN2 SD on TW31
ESPN1 HD on TW975, If ESPN2 is in HD somewhere on my TW then I haven't found it. I would have liked to get the Ohio State game in HD and not SD.
you must have missed the fact that mlbuc has E* not TWC.

[QUOTE=mlbUC]I just thought I'd point out that while ESPN/HD was showing the Breeders Cup all day yesterday, ESPN2/HD was showing Maryland at Clemson, Ohio State at Illinois, and Boston College at Wake Forest. All in HD, all were great games.

Not sure where you saw those games. The TW in Miami Township, Clermont county while carrying ESPN1 and ESPN2 only carry ESPN1 in HD
ESPN1 SD on TW30
ESPN2 SD on TW31
ESPN1 HD on TW975, If ESPN2 is in HD somewhere on my TW then I haven't found it. I would have liked to get the Ohio State game in HD and not SD.

JD, his point was that you cannot get ESPN2 in HD unless you dump the TW. He was referring to what he could get on DISH.

I am hoping that the Bengals game at 1300 on TW-912 will actually be in HD as advertized

I don't see why it wouldn't be. I don't recall TW ever showing a Bengals game advertised to be in HD, in SD.

[QUOTE=jdhughes63]

JD, his point was that you cannot get ESPN2 in HD unless you dump the TW. He was referring to what he could get on DISH.


I read a post on this forum from March that said TW was going to carry ESPN2-HD in time for baseball season. Well the season has now come and gone and we are part way through football. I wonder what their current position is? Anyone know?

We pay extra on TW for ESPN1 and get 4 other channels that rarely get watched (INHD, INHD2, HDNET, & HDNETMV). I think that ESPN2 -HD would be a very good add on to that HD packet. Maybe some of our posters that are in the loop can tell us where we stand as far as HD programming on TW.

I am hoping that the Bengals game at 1300 on TW-912 will actually be in HD as advertized

CBS is featuring the Bengals game in HD.....http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=744096&page=1

TWC is in negotiations for ESPN2-HD. Nobody can tell you when they will come to an agreement until they have.

Enjoying my Directv with OTA HDTV.

Now I'm getting:

Cincy Locals - most - via OTA antenna
Cincy Locals - all - via Directv HDTV (not quite 100% same quality as the OTAs, but not bad)
Dayton Locals - all - via OTA antenna

...and ESPN, ESPN2, DiscoveryHD, TNT, HDnet, HDnet Movies, Universal HD via Directv.

Got plenty of Hi-Def material to watch on the 100" screen this winter! :)

TWC is in negotiations for ESPN2-HD. Nobody can tell you when they will come to an agreement until they have.

Do you know of any other good channels that TW might be working on for their HD level? HD is becoming more popular and I will bet after Christmas customers will be asking for more HD options.

Just the normal ones like National Geographic, Universal HD, Food, Starz, Cinemax (Starz and Cinemax are available in NYC), but not MTV-HD.

I don't expect any new HD channels anytime soon.

Congrats TSC... glad you have seen the light :). It takes everyone a while to find their way to a new provider from Time Warner, but nobody I know who has switched has been disappointed in the change.

Thanks! I still don't know why I hadn't switched sooner -- couldn't be happier.

How does the picture quality compare in regards to the non HD channels like CNN, Fox News, etc?

From what I've noticed, PQ for SD is better than TWC -- especially compared to the channels on TWC that are still analog, obviously. Then again, I only watch SD if I have to. :)

[QUOTE=Sea Ray]


I read a post on this forum from March that said TW was going to carry ESPN2-HD in time for baseball season. Well the season has now come and gone and we are part way through football. I wonder what their current position is? Anyone know?

We pay extra on TW for ESPN1 and get 4 other channels that rarely get watched (INHD, INHD2, HDNET, & HDNETMV). I think that ESPN2 -HD would be a very good add on to that HD packet. Maybe some of our posters that are in the loop can tell us where we stand as far as HD programming on TW.

The empty promises on ESPN2HD from TWC is one of many reasons I left. It's been so long since we've been first told ESPN2HD is in the works. Paying for the HD Tier and only getting a few channels, I wasn't too happy with. NFL Network was another reason (of many), but who knows when that will happen either.

Now I'm getting:

Cincy Locals - all - via Directv HDTV


That is a good trick especially since DirecTV only carries the "big four" (ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX) in HD via satellite.

You posts are almost comical MLB. The more and more you post, the more you prove my point

Again - all the games you named, there was a better option on the major networks.

ESPN had SC vs Arkansas - Much better option than any of the games you named

ABC had Oklahoma vs AM - Much better option than any of the games you named

CBS had Tennessee and LSU - Much better option than any of the games you named

I hope you enjoyed your day watching Wake vs BC and the Buckeyes vs the little sisters of the poor.

Just because the game is close - doesnt mean its a good game. Nobody cares about watching two crappy teams play.

Another Sunday night with no HD on WKRC (TW912). Something about football that runs over and delayed shows not being able to transmit in HD.

Another Sunday night with no HD on WKRC (TW912). Something about football that runs over and delayed shows not being able to transmit in HD.
Oops! Not the football excuse tonight. It is now on in HD. Station engineers must have been on coffee break.

You posts are almost comical MLB. The more and more you post, the more you prove my point

Again - all the games you named, there was a better option on the major networks.

ESPN had SC vs Arkansas - Much better option than any of the games you named

ABC had Oklahoma vs AM - Much better option than any of the games you named

CBS had Tennessee and LSU - Much better option than any of the games you named

I hope you enjoyed your day watching Wake vs BC and the Buckeyes vs the little sisters of the poor.

Just because the game is close - doesnt mean its a good game. Nobody cares about watching two crappy teams play.

Do you have any interest in college football? ESPN2 and ESPNU had the #1 and #2 teams in the nation on TV. Not exactly "crappy" teams. Close games not good games? ESPN2 and ESPNU are critical for any college sports fan. Even more so come basketball season.

for any bearcat hoops fans out there.. there are no games on espn this year.. only espn2 and espnu (aside from what wxix picks up) - and the crosstown shootout.. espnu

Do you have any interest in college football? ESPN2 and ESPNU had the #1 and #2 teams in the nation on TV. Not exactly "crappy" teams. Close games not good games? ESPN2 and ESPNU are critical for any college sports fan. Even more so come basketball season.

Apparently only the good teams play on ESPN, ABC, and CBS. OSU, Michigan, BC, Wake, Maryland, Clemson, etc., aren't good teams... I'm not sure why any teams even bother playing because either they will destroy every team they play or they just suck.

Oops! Not the football excuse tonight. It is now on in HD. Station engineers must have been on coffee break.
I wonder if the brass at WKRC have any idea of how poor their station does on switching to HD after a local break? In the past few months I have seen them run in SD until the next station break. I don't know if its the fault of their auto switching equipment or what but it seems to me that if the on duty operations person was watching what they should be they would notice that they weren't in HD. This happens a lot on Letterman's show and I just got sick and tired of calling the newsroom to ask them to call the engineer and ask them to switch back to HD. I now watch Letterman on WHIO-DT because WKRC-DT still hasn't got its act together on HD.

From what I've noticed, PQ for SD is better than TWC -- especially compared to the channels on TWC that are still analog, obviously. Then again, I only watch SD if I have to. :)

Supposedly all of TW's channels are digital now if you have the converter box. Ironically I think some of their analog channels looked better before they went digital but maybe that's just me. I must say reading posts like yours push me closer to the door. If D* activates their box for OTA, that may put me over the edge. I am one of those "early adopters" who has an HD ready TV thus I am dependent on an external tuner of some sort.

What station do you think OSU - Michigan is going to be on?

ESPNU? ESPN2?

No - these are 2nd tier channels that nobody watches. Get over it

The only ones watching these channels are homers and yes....Ohio st vs illinois and Michigan vs Ball st are both crappy games

If they were good games ....they would be picked up by the major networks. There is a reason they arent shown on there.....but I guess you guys know more than the Disney execs.

Tony

ENOUGH WITH THE CHILDISH BICKERING ABOUT WHO ARE GOOD TEAMS AND WHAT ARE GOOD GAMES!

Remember, opinions are like *ssholes, everybody has one.

Just for you, tbenson. After quickly glancing at the college basketball schedule for November and December on ESPN2, these games seem pretty good...

ESPN2 basketball schedule:

#1 Florida vs #3 Kansas, November 25th. (but either they suck or it will be a blow out).

#8 Georgetown vs #11 Duke, December 2nd. (but either they suck or it will be a blow out).

#26 Gonzaga vs #11 Duke, December 21st. (but either they suck or it will be a blow out).

#29 Illinois vs #30 Xavier, December 29th. (but either they suck or it will be a blow out).

Just wait until conference season starts and you have top 10 teams playing from the Big East, ACC, Big 10, etc. They will have a ton of games on ESPN2.

I'm sorry, but your argument just does not stand up in this day in age of college athletics. ESPN/ABC/Disney put up the games that they expect to get good ratings, not necessarily a matchup of the top teams. Pretty simple if you ask me...

Oh, by the way, the Saturday night game last week on ABC was regional. You know what the other regional game was? VT vs Miami... a battle of #23 vs an unranked opponent. But of course, that was a much better game than a battle of 2 top 25 teams in BC vs Wake. :rolleyes:

ENOUGH WITH THE CHILDISH BICKERING ABOUT WHO ARE GOOD TEAMS AND WHAT ARE GOOD GAMES!

Remember, opinions are like *ssholes, everybody has one.

Ok... I'm done. I replied back before reading your post. This is my last post on the subject because I respect that not everyone wants to read our argument.

I'll keep my ESPN2HD and be happy getting more sports in HD. I'll take my NFL HD and watch the NFL games in HD in late November and December.

I'll also take my National Geographic HD and continue to watch some of the best programming in HD on TV.

I won't go into the other 20 HD channels that E* has and TWC doesn't have, because, of course, those channels obviously suck since TWC doesn't carry them.

Notice WCET-DT is currently off air(1st time I've had a chance to see what the DT's are up to today) -- Also noticed they were down last night at about 11:30pm ...

Hope it's nothing serious ...

WCPO-DT is having the same sound issues again tonight during the game. Sounds like the sound is coming out of a pipe.

I know we've discussed this before, but I'm surprised more folks haven't commented on this as it's pretty bad when they're not doing "true DD 5.1". Including at times during ABC HD programming.

If it isn't ok to post these email addresses, edit my post or let me know.

WCPO Chief Engineer, Mr. Joe Martinelli, jmartinelli@wcpo.com
WCPO Engineer, Mr. Talley, ttalley@wcpo.com

Please write them so the Michigan-OSU game doesn't have the "Pipe" Sound!

(Do all major markets have this many problems with their stations? WKRC can't flip the switch with automatic switching, WCPO adds DD 5.1 finally, but it sucks, WLWT has DD 5.1 on all the time, WXIX fires their weather guy (Ok, not a technical problem, but still stupid)

Isn't ESPNU considered a premium channel by D*? It's part of a $12/mo package? Maybe there are a few interesting games on there, maybe not but I don't think it's worth paying extra for.

Isn't ESPNU considered a premium channel by D*? It's part of a $12/mo package? Maybe there are a few interesting games on there, maybe not but I don't think it's worth paying extra for.


If you are a Xavier fan it will be imperitive to have ESPNU. A number of Xavier games, including the Xavier/Dayton and the Xavier/UC game will be on ESPNU.

Any chance WXIX will have UC games in HD again this year? WXIX took last year off allegedly due to lack of cable carriage for WXIX-DT.

WXIX fires their weather guy (Ok, not a technical problem, but still stupid)

Who did they fire??

edit: holy crap.. rich apuzzo?? he was their bread and butter.. horton goes out and gets all drunked up and keeps his job.. wonder what appuzo did???

yep

Isn't ESPNU considered a premium channel by D*? It's part of a $12/mo package? Maybe there are a few interesting games on there, maybe not but I don't think it's worth paying extra for.

Response from WCPO:

Thanks for the feedback. We are working on this and I may check back with you,
if you don't mind.

Joe

props to joe.. and I am sure jyd that you dont mind him checking with you.. you are now the voice of the common man!!

Response from WCPO:

Thanks for the feedback. We are working on this and I may check back with you,
if you don't mind.

Joe

Notice WCET-DT is currently off air(1st time I've had a chance to see what the DT's are up to today) -- Also noticed they were down last night at about 11:30pm ...

Hope it's nothing serious ...




WECT-DT is still down this afternoon. It looks to be a serious problem.

for any bearcat hoops fans out there.. there are no games on espn this year.. only espn2 and espnu (aside from what wxix picks up) - and the crosstown shootout.. espnu

Thanks a lot, Nancy Z!!!!

haven't posted in a while, but a few things...

1.) I noticed WCET "struggling" a bit a few nights ago. The signal was coming in and out. As others have posted and is still the case now, they are completely off the air. I guess I'll tape NOVA and Frontline from WPTO 14-6

2.) I've been living without cable/satellite now since July, and I couldn't be happier. There is so much digital content available over the air for free, and I really have come to believe that that is where most content should be. In a world where cable networks such as ESPN are trying to force cable/sat companies to carry more of their channels, they are using dirty tactics such as putting the local college games on ESPNU. Of course it makes perfect business sense for them, but why should subscribers be forced to pay for another channel just for one or two pieces of content they want? At least the NFL has it somewhat right. They require the local market games to be shown over-the-air for free on one of the local affilliates. The Thursday night (not this Thursday) Bengals game that is being carried on NFL network (which very few people receive, and no TWC subscribers receive) will also be shown on WLWT, for example (WLWT has said they will provide the HD feed as well!).

If the NCAA had rules like this, then there would really be no need for many people to have cable/satellite at all, as their local market teams would be on local affilliates. ESPN is just abusing this. A few weeks ago the Buckeys game was placed on ESPNU, which very few people get. It obviously is ESPN trying to force Time Warner to pick up their channel.

Now, I'm not against sports packages. I think there is real value if you provide people access to any game they choose, or all of their distant favorite team's games. However, ALL subscribers should not have to pay the subscription fees for additional channels like ESPN2, ESPNU, NFL Network, and on and on. For people that want to pay extra to receive more, then a sports package makes sense, but why should everyone have to pay for it?

I also think that if someone were to try to start up a new all-sports network to be broadcast over the air using local affilliates, that they could be very successful as there are plenty of local independent stations out there that could carry their content. They could have a national feed (think a show like SportsCenter and other national interest content (big games)) and then the local affilliates could do local sports segments, covering the local colleges and even high schools. Hell, it would probably draw a bigger audience than myNetwork and the CW do... If anyone has some venture capital, let me know because I think we could be rich!


I've started to notice as well that many people think they NEED cable or sat to get HD. Go into Best Buy or Circuit city and ask them if they carry ATSC tuners... they don't! Why? Because they can get kick backs from selling you a dish! People just think antennas are "old-fashioned" and they imagine the fuzzy picture and having to constantly adjust. But with the digital feeds, I can get all the Cincinnati stations plus Dayton stations (minus DaytonCW) with an indoor antenna placed properly. I haven't had to touch it since I set it up in July, and i get perfect picture and no dropouts. I also just convinced a friend that she doesn't need cable. She just moved into a new house and had an antenna mounted in the attic. I set her up with an ATSC tuner set top box and she is thrilled that she can watch all of her shows in crystal clear picture, no adjustments, and she is saving $60-150 a month!

Think about it! $150 a month is a car payment!

I'm glad things work for you, jimp. If I found myself watching anything on OTA TV besides sports maybe I would be in the same boat as you... but alas, I watch ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, NFL, National Geographic, USA, HDNet, and HDNet Movies on a regular basis. All of them I watch more than the networks, because, honestly I think the shows on network TV (outside of PBS anyway) suck...

Who did they fire??

edit: holy crap.. rich apuzzo??

Apuzzo is occasinally doing weather on WKEF/WRGT Dayton, now ... Saw him there over the weekend ...

I guess I'll tape NOVA and Frontline from WPTO 14-6


NOVA was up on WPTD-DT 58 (16.6 remapped) Dayton(they also carry the PBS HD channel "feed" like WCET-DT does, but from from 6pm~6am) tonight, but Frontline was on the SD PBS feed only tonight, as it was a repeat from May 06.

Go into Best Buy or Circuit city and ask them if they carry ATSC tuners... they don't!

Although it's been a while, They've had them everytime I've visited their locations near Dayton Mall ... Just don't expect the folks there to know anything about it ....

WCET-HD was working last night on TWC at about 10pm

Thanks a lot, Nancy Z!!!!


I agree 1000% on that.

I'm glad things work for you, jimp. If I found myself watching anything on OTA TV besides sports maybe I would be in the same boat as you... but alas, I watch ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, NFL, National Geographic, USA, HDNet, and HDNet Movies on a regular basis. All of them I watch more than the networks, because, honestly I think the shows on network TV (outside of PBS anyway) suck...


And I perfectly understand your situation. If what you want to watch is not on OTA tv, then it makes perfect sense for you to pay for cable or satellite, as long as the cost of that service is ofset by your benefit of being able to watch that particular content.


Although, would you be upset if Dish (I think that's who you said you were with) stopped carrying Lifetime, Game Show Network, Country Music Television, or Disney Channel? (I just threw a few channels out there as I don't know your preferences other than sports, but I think you get my point). Wouldn't it make more sense if you could save money by only paying for the channels you care to watch? Wouldn't it also make sense for cable networks to compete over you instead of big corporate parents trying to force cable and satellite providers to carry additional channels on their basic tiers (Disney - ESPN, NFL - NFL Network for example).

I'd be willing to pay $20 a month for ESPN-HD and ESPN2-HD plus FSN Ohio. Those channels are really all I miss right now, but I'm not going to pay close to $100 for them.

Thanks a lot, Nancy Z!!!!


I don't like Nancy Z any more than you do, but it's really not her fault, at least not her fault any more than it is all NCAA University presidents for not insisting that their games be shown on local broadcast TV. If a cable network such as ESPN or ESPN-U wants to pick it up, great, but a simulcast should be required in the local market OTA. The NFL at least has this part of their TV policy right.

The only reason ESPN is putting the games on ESPN-U is to try force Time Warner to carry yet another one of their channels. While I'd love to see these games, I'm glad TW is standing up and willing to say no.

Can WSTR 64 or WBQC 38 really make more money showing whatever it is they show during a Bearcat game than they could carrying the game?

NOVA was up on WPTD-DT 58 (16.6 remapped) Dayton(they also carry the PBS HD channel "feed" like WCET-DT does, but from from 6pm~6am) tonight, but Frontline was on the SD PBS feed only tonight, as it was a repeat from May 06.

My timed recordings on 14-6 last night got me "Nature" and "Smart Gardening." While I'm sure these are excellent shows, I have no use for them! Anyone know when/where I can catch a repeat of last night's Frontline and NOVA in HD?



Although it's been a while, They've had them everytime I've visited their locations near Dayton Mall ... Just don't expect the folks there to know anything about it ....


I'll look for them again next time I'm in one of the Cincinnati stores. I have asked several times though, and each time been told, no. If they do have them, they'd rather sign me up for cable or satellite and take their commission.

Speaking of ATSC tuners, does anyone have a suggestion for a good one around $100 or so? I am looking for another one.

WCET-HD was working last night on TWC at about 10pm

I believe they have a fiber feed to TWC.

In any case, WCET-DT made it back to the airwaves today.



My timed recordings on 14-6 last night got me "Nature" and "Smart Gardening."


That's because WPTO-DT runs their own HD programming schedule from 8-10pm nightly, including time shifted PBS HD/SD widescreen programming.

WCVN-DT(KET4 - 54.4 remapped) does the same thing from 8pm~12am nightly, but with a different programming schedule, most of which is HD. Much of the programming on PBS HD channel is SD widescreen - It will usually say "available in Widescreen" for those programs at beginning, and "Available in HD" for HD programming ...


Anyone know when/where I can catch a repeat of last night's Frontline and NOVA in HD?


You will probably be able to find several airings of those programs via the following links :

thinkTV's(WPTO+WPTD + DT's) Schedule is here :

http://www.thinktv.org/program/program.php

KET's(WCVN/DT) Schedule for KET1~KET6 is here :

http://www.ket.org/cgi-bin/tvschedules/index.pl

KET4 HD schedule is here :

http://www.ket.org/dtv/programs.htm

WCET/DT's program schedule is here :

http://www.cetconnect.org/television/schedule_new.shtml

Who did they fire??

edit: holy crap.. rich apuzzo?? he was their bread and butter.. horton goes out and gets all drunked up and keeps his job.. wonder what appuzo did???

No one is talking. But I have heard that it did NOT have anything to do with Rich wanting to have the weather in HD on XIX. :D

Here is a link to last month's story about him being out at Fox 19: http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2006/10/rich-apuzzo-out-at-fox-19.asp

In regard to Mr Rich Apuzzo, who knows what the real reason he was fired is, but I think I caught a hint. Seeing him on Fox45/ABC22, his title on the screen is "Weather Specialist." I also noticed what seemed to me like extra emphasis on the word "Meteorologist" at Fox19 when they referred to Valeri Abati, since Apuzzo has been gone. ("Let's go to Meteorologist Valeri Abati..." and "I'm meteorologist Valeri Abati.")

I'm not sure, but I thought they used to call Rich a Meteorologist. If so, then did he lose the title?

If not, then maybe they just wanted a meteorologist, kind of like what happend to Pat Barry a long time ago on WLWT. Oh, and guess who filled in at Fox45/ABC22 a few times recently? Yes, Pat Barry! He has also expressed interest in filling it at Fox19 at least until they hire a new chief.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2006/10/two-more-tv-weathermen-in-news.asp

Also, it appears that WLWT's Jim O'brien is out as well...

Much of the programming on PBS HD channel is SD widescreen - It will usually say "available in Widescreen" for those programs at beginning, and "Available in HD" for HD programming ...

Yeah. I've usually seen NOVA in HD but have seen it SD widescreen a few times as well I believe. I think Frontline is generally in SD widescreen.


You will probably be able to find several airings of those programs via the following links :


Thanks. Found them:

NOVA Fri at 8pm on KET-4
Frontline Sat at 10pm on Think 16-6

Although, would you be upset if Dish (I think that's who you said you were with) stopped carrying Lifetime, Game Show Network, Country Music Television, or Disney Channel? (I just threw a few channels out there as I don't know your preferences other than sports, but I think you get my point). Wouldn't it make more sense if you could save money by only paying for the channels you care to watch? Wouldn't it also make sense for cable networks to compete over you instead of big corporate parents trying to force cable and satellite providers to carry additional channels on their basic tiers (Disney - ESPN, NFL - NFL Network for example).

I am all about a a-la-carte package, but thus far the FCC has allowed them to have all of these packages. I totally understand your point aboutnot wanting to spend $100 a month, but when it comes down to it I figure I save that much alone in money saved from me going to watch games at the local bar (after food and beer), or money saved from not going down to a Reds game, etc.

According to the whistleblower... rich grabbed someones a$$ - take that for what its worth... probably not much.. but you never know!!

In regard to Mr Rich Apuzzo, who knows what the real reason he was fired is, but I think I caught a hint. Seeing him on Fox45/ABC22, his title on the screen is "Weather Specialist." I also noticed what seemed to me like extra emphasis on the word "Meteorologist" at Fox19 when they referred to Valeri Abati, since Apuzzo has been gone. ("Let's go to Meteorologist Valeri Abati..." and "I'm meteorologist Valeri Abati.")

I'm not sure, but I thought they used to call Rich a Meteorologist. If so, then did he lose the title?

If not, then maybe they just wanted a meteorologist, kind of like what happend to Pat Barry a long time ago on WLWT. Oh, and guess who filled in at Fox45/ABC22 a few times recently? Yes, Pat Barry! He has also expressed interest in filling it at Fox19 at least until they hire a new chief.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2006/10/two-more-tv-weathermen-in-news.asp

Also, it appears that WLWT's Jim O'brien is out as well...

if you read keistwetters blog.. someone talks about something horstmeyer over at 12 said about the digital signal.. must have been bad...

The Whisleblowers poem about the whole situation was pretty good.

not too many read that guy - but its usually funny stuff!! sometimes he actually has the scoop and its accurate!

I don't like Nancy Z any more than you do, but it's really not her fault, at least not her fault any more than it is all NCAA University presidents for not insisting that their games be shown on local broadcast TV. If a cable network such as ESPN or ESPN-U wants to pick it up, great, but a simulcast should be required in the local market OTA. The NFL at least has this part of their TV policy right.

The only reason ESPN is putting the games on ESPN-U is to try force Time Warner to carry yet another one of their channels. While I'd love to see these games, I'm glad TW is standing up and willing to say no.

Can WSTR 64 or WBQC 38 really make more money showing whatever it is they show during a Bearcat game than they could carrying the game?


Fox19 already laid down fiber to Shuemaker for HD broadcasts and has contract to broadcast UC games through 2010 or something to that extend.
But we wont get any(I hope that will change) of the games in HD because of the costs asosiated with the broadcast. In 2004 or 2005 season we had a few games in HD (right after the install) but since then it's all been dead.

It would appear that due to the ND game being broad casted on CSTV, TWC-Cinci CSTV is offering a free preview weekend of CSTV this weekend [in some markets].

Here's an incomplete listing of the providers that will offer a free preview this weekend (also, "Many cable and satellite providers that don't usually carry CSTV will have it available this weekend. To find out which cable and satellite providers are participating in CSTV's Sneak Peek Weekend"):
http://www.cstv.com/cstvppv/rumble/affiliates.html

If you haven't discovered this page yet, it's a good local listing of where you can find college football games (even if you are on a satellite provider):
http://www.timewarnercable.com/cincinnati/programming/sportspack/schedules/gameplansked.html

If you haven't discovered this page yet, it's a good local listing of where you can find college football games (even if you are on a satellite provider):
http://www.timewarnercable.com/cinc...meplansked.html


Strange, I don't see any games listed from WBQC-CA on there ... They've been airing college football on Sat afternoons this year, If I recall correctly mostly ESPN+ games ....

Then, of course there's also the Dayton stations, Just as is the case with NFL, they also sometimes have different college games ... Such as the OSU game that aired on WHIO a few weekends or so ago .... unless WBQC or WOTH had that one as well as I was out during the game but I know WHIO aired it -- That evening, WCPO reported on evening news the game wasn't "available" on TV in Cincinnati, besides it not being true for WHIO(whose OTA coverage area completely covers Cincinnati) --- otherwise, I don't know if that was true or not ....

WCPO-DT sounds good today

Nevermind, it sounds good because it's all coming out of the center channel. The surround, left, and right channels are extremely low compared to the center channel. I think WCPO-DT may have attempted to fix their problem by over attenuating the surround channels. This is a vast change from before where the rear channels were overpowered.

This is compared to WKEF-DT that is only broadcasting the L+R channels.

So:
WCPO-DT: Center only with all other channels extremely low to inaudible
WKEF-DT: L+R only with all other channels silent

^ I noticed problems on both stations. WKEF-DT had no DD 5.1, just stereo, even though sending DD 5.1. WCPO-DT at least is working on it, hopefully they can figure it out, because BIG GAME next week.

The game looked ok on WHIO-DT, would've been better if our defense actually played in the second half. Time to make some coaching changes I'm afraid. I thought Lewis was a defensive coordinator for the Ravens when they went to the Super Bowl in 2000? Well, I guess we can't attribute that defense to him.

[QUOTE=JunkyardDogg]^ I noticed problems on both stations. WKEF-DT had no DD 5.1, just stereo, even though sending DD 5.1. WCPO-DT at least is working on it, hopefully they can figure it out, because BIG GAME next week.

I'll be happy with a video feed in HD. Stereo and 5.1 don't do much for the announcers although it does add the sounds of the stadium and band for a better experience all around.

I am not an electronics whiz, but has anyone had any troubles picking up the Cincy Channels? OF course I live further out than you all and of course the signals will fall off to a certain degree but with all of this cloud cover (off and on) the past few days the digtal signals are hard to pick up at certain times and even analog signals just as bad to pick up. Even Lexington is somewhat Difficult to pull in today from about 5:40pm - 6:05pm Well I thought all of the problems were over the pic cleared up some thought I was getting thru the worse 6:08 is is just as bad as before now at 6:12 it is perfect again for how long? I do not know?

I am not an electronics whiz, but has anyone had any troubles picking up the Cincy Channels? OF course I live further out than you all and of course the signals will fall off to a certain degree but with all of this cloud cover (off and on) the past few days the digtal signals are hard to pick up at certain times and even analog signals just as bad to pick up. Even Lexington is somewhat Difficult to pull in today from about 5:40pm - 6:05pm Well I thought all of the problems were over the pic cleared up some thought I was getting thru the worse 6:08 is is just as bad as before now at 6:12 it is perfect again for how long? I do not know?
That's why I have cable. No antennae, no dishes, no tuners, no gadgets. Just turn it on. Very little down time, good reception. Some day maybe more HD.

but has anyone had any troubles picking up the Cincy Channels

No problems here OTA. 24/7, no dropouts, including from stations which aren't carried on cable or via a dish .... I just turn the TV on and watch HD, No hassles with providers or monthly subscription bills ...

That's why I have cable.



No antennae,


Insects have antennae, OTA viewers and cable headends and others whom use them have antennas ...



no tuners


Wrong. Cable uses tuners as well. Just as is the case with OTA digital tuners, they can be inside the TV or in a STB or other device ....

It would be nice to have the Local channels thru Dish Network but they rely on what the FCC tells them to what viewing area I should be in. I always watch Cincinnati and Lexington for my News etc. and always will.And both are closer to me than Charleston and Huntington WVA. But Dish and Direct rely what the FCC says to determine what area we should be in. And I had both Cincinnati and Lexington as my Locals when you could have 2 Locals but the Big Boy had to step in and override stuff now I do not have a choice but go with Charleston and Huntington so I dropped my Locals and rely on a Tower and Antenna for my Locals. I have 2 more sections of tower to put in I have one here and one I have to do to my Storage spot to pick up. But need a bucket truck to go higher maybe the extra 20ft will do justice and help out and maybe not? That will put me closer to about 60 ft up. One guy has a Bucket Truck to get me upto 40 ft but never came over to help me but I was hoping to find someone with one or knows someone that has one capable of going close to 60 feet up in the Air. Just as long as they are reasonable with their pricing for their services.

How are TW customers going to see all the Thursday night games on the NFL network? I know we will get the Bengal game on CBS or something - but what about all the others?

Are we out of luck?

Tony

We're out of luck as far as the non Bengals NFL Network games go. You're correct the Bengals game on NFL Network will be carried (supposedly in HD) on WLWT.

How are TW customers going to see all the Thursday night games on the NFL network? I know we will get the Bengal game on CBS or something - but what about all the others?

Are we out of luck?

That is what I was referring to before when you claimed that everything any sport fan would ever want to see is on the networks or ESPN... NFL Network/HD, ESPN2HD, and ESPNU all show sporting events that I am interested in, yet it doesn't appear as though TWC will have any of these channels any time soon.

That is what I was referring to before when you claimed that everything any sport fan would ever want to see is on the networks or ESPN... NFL Network/HD, ESPN2HD, and ESPNU all show sporting events that I am interested in, yet it doesn't appear as though TWC will have any of these channels any time soon.


Last year we didn't need NFL Network... why do we need it this year? They are only putting the one game per week on that channel because they want cable companies to be forced to carry it because of pressure from subscribers. They also make almost NO attempt to mention the fact that local OTA affilliates carry all local-market games. I'm really not interested... How much will you pay for what you used to get for free?

Last year we didn't need NFL Network... why do we need it this year? They are only putting the one game per week on that channel because they want cable companies to be forced to carry it because of pressure from subscribers. They also make almost NO attempt to mention the fact that local OTA affilliates carry all local-market games. I'm really not interested... How much will you pay for what you used to get for free?

Actually, that is not the full story. I live in the Dayton DMA, I do not get the Cincinnati game OTA. I also like to watch the other games, hence, I will watch the other 7 games on NFL Network.

Only the direct DMA that the team plays in gets the game for free, no secondary DMA's (hence, Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, Columbus, etc., do not get the Bengals anywhere but NFL Network that night).

When it comes down to it, I actually fully understand why TWC is doing what they are doing. My problem is the price they charge for people to get what they currently deliver. If they weren't already 15%-20% more than other providers who do offer ESPN2HD, ESPNU, and NFL Network/HD then maybe I wouldn't complain, but somehow Dish, DirecTV, and Comcast are able to squeeze their budgets and still turn a very nice profit without the need to raise prices with every new channel.

Time Warner Cable = more money, less entertainment

Edit: By the way, it is more than 1 game per week. Some weeks they play a Thursday and Saturday night game.

to each his own.. for me being a football fan, the nfl network is a must have.. which is why I chose directv - in addition to being lower cost and more channels that I watch.. as far as time warner not carrying it.. I am not going to bash them, thats their call.. and for folks that have twc and really want espnu and nfln - switch providers.. finally, I have no problem with ESPN and theh NFL doing what they are doing with the games.

jim

Last year we didn't need NFL Network... why do we need it this year? They are only putting the one game per week on that channel because they want cable companies to be forced to carry it because of pressure from subscribers. They also make almost NO attempt to mention the fact that local OTA affilliates carry all local-market games. I'm really not interested... How much will you pay for what you used to get for free?

Here's a question directed towards HR20 users only (which I think is at least one person here). How are the MPEG4 locals? How do the MPEG4 locals affect the reliability of the HR20? Have you had many missed recordings?

I have gotten word from other HR20 users that the reliability of the HR20 depends on many unknown factors, but one known factor is the MPEG4 locals so I am interested in getting local input on the subject.

Here's a question directed towards HR20 users only (which I think is at least one person here). How are the MPEG4 locals? How do the MPEG4 locals affect the reliability of the HR20? Have you had many missed recordings?

I have gotten word from other HR20 users that the reliability of the HR20 depends on many unknown factors, but one known factor is the MPEG4 locals so I am interested in getting local input on the subject.

The MPEG4 locals are... ok. I'm still kicking myself for not comparing them to the uncompressed antenna feed I had going before getting HD locals from D*. I returned the antenna before running a comparison since the HR20 won't do OTA anyway... I figured what's the point? Nonetheless... a friend of mine w/ TW came over and pointed out the issues he saw w/ my picture that don't exist on his.

FOX typically has the best quality... or at least CBS seems to have the worst. Watching the Bengals game on CBS and then the Steelers game on FOX this past Sunday was like night and day. I was also having an issue w/ the CBS feed having all kinds of digital artifacts, macro blocking and so forth... but after 30 minutes w/ D* they reset something on the satelite and it fixed the problem. Last night... FOX was exhibiting the same behavior, but I didn't plan to watch it so I never called D*.

In general... I've noticed some blurriness w/ motion. It's especially apparent in medium range shots of football players jersey numbers and the like. They'll be in perfect focus and looking awesome, then if they move the slightest bit they fall out of focus until they're settled again. Close ups and talking heads are great though.

From what I understand, this is an issue w/ the MPEG4 compression that apparently doesn't exist on TW. I have yet to go back to my friend's w/ TW and see what his picture looks like now that I know what I'm looking for... but it's a 92" screen so any issues will be literally larger than life.

As far as recording goes... my first HR20 blew up right out of the box. The one I have now I have had no issues with. It has recorded everything as planned, and you can even see when you have a conflict in the channel guide... as I had last night. It successfully recorded what it was supposed to. Most of what I record comes from the HD locals as well.

I'm stuck w/ D* for 2 years since they gave me a deal on the HR20, plus w/ TW undecided on ESPN2 HD, NFL Network and ESPNU availability... I can only hope that with additional satelites and the pending class-action lawsuit regarding signal quality, D* will increase their bandwidth in time.

The MPEG4 locals are... ok. I'm still kicking myself for not comparing them to the uncompressed antenna feed I had going before getting HD locals from D*. I returned the antenna before running a comparison since the HR20 won't do OTA anyway... I figured what's the point? Nonetheless... a friend of mine w/ TW came over and pointed out the issues he saw w/ my picture that don't exist on his.

Thanks for the response. Sounds like the boxes are pretty hit or miss, but at least that's something to know. It is good to know there are good working boxes out there. Maybe by the time the HR20 is available again they will have enabled the OTA tuner and the MPEG4 quality won't be a question.

to each his own.. for me being a football fan, the nfl network is a must have.. which is why I chose directv - in addition to being lower cost and more channels that I watch.. as far as time warner not carrying it.. I am not going to bash them, thats their call.. and for folks that have twc and really want espnu and nfln - switch providers.. finally, I have no problem with ESPN and theh NFL doing what they are doing with the games.

jim


I have no problem with you or anyone else who decides that cable/sat is worth the money because it has content that they want. So I hope it doesn't sound like I do.

Anyway, I do watch a lot of NFL, in fact, problably more than most. On a good Sunday, I watch five NFL games, all in HD, plus the Football Night in America highlight show (which isn't as good as NFL Prime Time was but they've been getting better).

This sunday is a good example:

1pm:
Screen 1: Bengals at Saints in HD on CBS - WHIO (better PQ than WKRC)
Screen 2: Falcons at Ravens in HD on FOX - WRGT (WXIX has no 1pm game)

4pm:
Screen 1: Colts at Cowboys in HD on CBS - WHIO
Screen 2: Seahawks at 49ers in HD on FOX - WXIX (WRGT has no 4pm game)

(7pm: NFL Day Highlights - Football Night in America on NBC - WLWT)

8:15pm:
Screen 1: Chargers at Broncos in HD on NBC - WLWT

In case you were wondering, Screen 1 is a Samsung 56" 1080p DLP, and Screen 2 is a 20" CRT (not HD).

That is A LOT of free HD NFL content, and it's enough to satisfy me.

And, as I said above, I'm not against anyone here who has cable or satellite, especially when you're able to justify it (as you have).

man jimp - I thought I watched alot of ball.. I agree with you - there is a lot of free football.. and in my case.. becasue I want to watch the browns.. they gots me by the shorthairs!!

Although it's been a while, They've had them everytime I've visited their locations near Dayton Mall ... Just don't expect the folks there to know anything about it ....

Stopped by Circuit City and Best Buy last night. Neither had ANY HD Tuners. Both stores also only have one model listed on their web sites (which is actually the model I want) but they are out of stock online and in every store (at least the ones I checked from Cincinnati to Dayton to Columbus).

In fact, if anyone knows where I can buy the Samsung DTB-H260F, please let me know, because I have yet to find a place, even online, that has this thing in stock.

man jimp - I thought I watched alot of ball.. I agree with you - there is a lot of free football.. and in my case.. becasue I want to watch the browns.. they gots me by the shorthairs!!

Yes, being an in-market Bengals fan helps. It also has been nice that we've only been in SD once or twice I believe this season.

I have been contemplating whether or not I could pull in WBNS (CBS, Columbus) with a better antenna setup, as they many times will show the Browns if Dayton or Cincinnati is not, which would make some of my friends who are Browns fans very happy.

There is also a very helpful thread each week in the HDTV Programming forum that shows you which games are in in each market, with colored maps. This week's thread is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=750625

looks like its not out yet.. lots of places taking pre-orders

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728392


Stopped by Circuit City and Best Buy last night. Neither had ANY HD Tuners. Both stores also only have one model listed on their web sites (which is actually the model I want) but they are out of stock online and in every store (at least the ones I checked from Cincinnati to Dayton to Columbus).

In fact, if anyone knows where I can buy the Samsung DTB-H260F, please let me know, because I have yet to find a place, even online, that has this thing in stock.

looks like sometime in december for ota on the hr20 - hopefully lighting up ota on the hr20 will not introduce a whole new set of problems.

Thanks for the response. Sounds like the boxes are pretty hit or miss, but at least that's something to know. It is good to know there are good working boxes out there. Maybe by the time the HR20 is available again they will have enabled the OTA tuner and the MPEG4 quality won't be a question.

I live in the Dayton DMA, I do not get the Cincinnati game OTA <snip> Only the direct DMA that the team plays in gets the game for free, no secondary DMA's (hence, Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, Columbus, etc., do not get the Bengals anywhere but NFL Network that night).


Cincinnati stations OTA coverage areas completely cover Dayton area(not the entire DMA of course) - Exceptions being the LP's and WCVN/DT(KET/PBS In N KY on a shorter tower) - although, I expect even those can be received well in many circumstances with a good antenna setup from points in South Dayton - especially WBQC-CA and WCVN-DT.

Follows is link to coverage area map from FCC site for WLWT-DT's(NBC HD Cincinnati) OTA signal, which is pretty typical for the Cincinnati stations. The Cincinnati towers are only 37~45 miles(WSTR is the closest) or so from Downtown Dayton. Generally, in this area given the heights of the transmitting towers, the coverage areas(for either Cincy or Dayton stations) are about 55~65 Mile radius from -- and, Given the right circumstances (and antenna setup), it is also sometimes possible to receive stations reliably from a bit beyond the predicted coverage area(such as the 41dbu contour on this map).

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1024261.html

I have no problem with you or anyone else who decides that cable/sat is worth the money because it has content that they want. So I hope it doesn't sound like I do.


Same here -- Although personally I think It's good you are getting the message out to folks that OTA by itself is a viable option, and one that has more quality programming available in this area than perhaps many(or most) people even have time to watch ....

I'm not sure many folks are aware of that .....

If anyone has Directv or Dish could you tell me if the locals get the same programming that cable TV has. Like do you get everything that ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX have plus local news? I want to make sure I get the shows that play at night like from 8:00 till 10pm. I am in Warren County Ohio. I like Dish but no local HD and they don’t know when it will be here. How good is the picture on locals with Dish, do they look a lot better than analog?

Thanks

n fact, if anyone knows where I can buy the Samsung DTB-H260F, please let me know, because I have yet to find a place, even online, that has this thing in stock.

JR.com (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product_Code=SAM+DTBH260F&JRSource=PriceGrabber.datafeed.SAM+DTBH260F) looks like they have it in stock, and on sale to boot.

Cincinnati stations OTA coverage areas completely cover Dayton area(not the entire DMA of course) -

Ok, let me rephrase that. I meant to say that the real "local" stations, the ones people can pick up with rabbit ears (you can't get Cincy channels without a decent antenna setup), are not allowed to show the Bengals game when they are on NFL network. Only two stations are given the local OTA broadcast rights, for that game it will be 1 in Baltimore and WLWT in Cincinnati.

looks like its not out yet.. lots of places taking pre-orders

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728392


Yeah I've been monitoring that thread as well. People have this tuner, it's just almost impossible to find a place that has them in stock. But good news, Circuit City has them in stock for online ordering as of this morning (they did not have them yesterday). Still no stores have them that I could find, but I grabbed one from their web site and should be delivered next week.

JR.com looks like they have it in stock, and on sale to boot.

Thanks! That is a good price ($159). Unfortunately, it says they're out of stock again. I also already placed my Circuit City order. But thanks for pointing it out!

If anyone has Directv or Dish could you tell me if the locals get the same programming that cable TV has. Like do you get everything that ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX have plus local news? I want to make sure I get the shows that play at night like from 8:00 till 10pm. I am in Warren County Ohio. I like Dish but no local HD and they don’t know when it will be here. How good is the picture on locals with Dish, do they look a lot better than analog?

Thanks

I live in Mason and use Dish Network after trying to work with TW for several months. The SD locals with Dish is exactly the same as with TW and I assume it is the same as their broadcast programming. You get everything 24/7.

By the way, I use an interior HD antenna plugged into my Dish receiver so I get Cincinnati and Dayton channels in HD at no additional charge from Dish. I do have Dish's HD package.

Hope this helps.

// Scott A