I am sorry I know the answer is here somewhere but I can not see it in the 20-30 pages I checked.

But what channels are digital and unencrypted for insight cable? I am thinking of getting a HDhomerun and it only uses the digital channels so I thought I better check before buying one.

Insight carries all the local OTA digital channels unencrypted except for WSTR-DT (OTA 64.1). Most of the subchannels are carried too. The list includes WLWT-DT, WCPO-DT, WKRC-DT, WXIX-DT, WCET-DT, and WCVN-DT.

Insight also carries a lot of Music Choice channels and, as of now, they are unencrypted but they might encrypt them at any time.


The whole analog digital thing still confuses me.

Thanks all for helping a neighbor out.

What confuses you about the analog digital thing? We are here to help end your confussion and answer any questions you may have.

It looks like WKRC-TV will have new owners soon:
WKRC part of Clear Channel TV station sale (http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/16/daily60.html)

"Clear Channel Communications Inc. has agreed to sell the 56 TV stations operated by its Television Group, which includes WKRC-TV in Cincinnati, to Providence Equity Partners Inc.

Included in the deal, valued at about $1.2 billion, are all of the stations' Web sites, the Television Operations Center and Inergize Digital Media -- a Television Group unit that manages online and wireless operations."

I don't know how this will effect WKRC's HD operations but hopefully the new owners will give them the budget they need. I also hope the new owners will re-think what they are doing with the CW in Cincinnati.

Thanks for posting that, Bill R. I'd looked several days ago for news and didn't find anything ...

Not sure it's completely clear at this point who will be operating WKRC-TV in a year or so, but, Whoever ends up with it, I'd think WKRC would be one of the most "important" stations out of this particular deal .... Hopefully, perhaps that'll turn out to be a good thing for us as well ....

This is "old news" from last week, but also has a little more background on who all was in the bidding :

http://www.freepress.net/news/22447

Bill R thanks for the reply above.

I was reading and another post said that sometimes there may be unlisted digital signals for some cable channels in the cable line that HDHR can access.

Trying to figure out if I really need dual Qam or a cheaper single one would do for me. Most of what I record/watch is SD from basic cable channels. Since it is a digital only reciever I am wondering just how much this would be worth to me. Meaning are there any at all cable channels that are digital. I guess though in the next year as direct picks up channels insight may do the same if I am lucky.

Bill R thanks for the reply above.

I was reading and another post said that sometimes there may be unlisted digital signals for some cable channels in the cable line that HDHR can access.

Trying to figure out if I really need dual Qam or a cheaper single one would do for me. Most of what I record/watch is SD from basic cable channels. Since it is a digital only reciever I am wondering just how much this would be worth to me. Meaning are there any at all cable channels that are digital. I guess though in the next year as direct picks up channels insight may do the same if I am lucky.

Insight has many cable channels that are digital only. You need their STB (or your own or TV with a cablecard slot) to get them. As a general rule, cable companies only have the local broadcast channels in the clear (uncrypted QAM).

If you ask three people at Insight what their future plans are for digital channels you will likely get three answers. I have a neighbor who is a tech for them and he said that their plans are in flux. He said that his educated guess is that sometime late this year or early next year they will reduce the number of analog channel to make way for more digital channels. Everyone that subscribes to the basic package (25 NTSC analog channels and the local broadcast channels in clear QAM) and he thinks that they may just move the 25 analog channels to clear QAM. For Insight that would make way for many more HD channels, for customers it would mean that they will need a cable box or a TV (or STB) with a QAM tuner. They could also move the second tier of analog channels to digital. That, too, would free up a lot of room for more HD channels but it would mean that many people would need STBs.

Comparing Insight's local HD channels to the ones I receive OTA there is very little difference. Insight does a fairly good job of giving the local HD stations the bandwidth that they need.

Not sure it's completely clear at this point who will be operating WKRC-TV in a year or so, but, Whoever ends up with it, I'd think WKRC would be one of the most "important" stations out of this particular deal .... Hopefully, perhaps that'll turn out to be a good thing for us as well ....

I do hope that it turns out well for you guys but, general speaking, it does not bode well when an equity company buys broadcast stations. Generally, they are in it for the money and quite often they "cut fat" and split up and sell off parts of the business in very short order. It will take at least six months for the deal to be finalized and approved. Right now there aren't any items (that I know of) that could be roadblocks for Providence Equity Partners Inc but you never know. It will be interesting to see if Providence goes along with Clear Channel's current plans to move WKRC-DT back to broadcast channel 12 when analog is shut down in 2009.

I think within the next year of so we will see the ownership of a couple of other Cincinnati TV stations change hands (WLWT, WXIX, and WSTR are all "on the list"). Time will tell but this should be an "interesting" year in Cincinnati TV.

I do hope that it turns out well for you guy


I think we are hoping for the same things, but I said for us, as in HD viewers --- Not me, personally .... I think it's interesting to watch/observe the DTV transistion+issues involved, as well as issues such as these regarding ownership transfers of local stations/etc, but I have no personal stake or interest in any of it.


but, general speaking, it does not bode well when an equity company buys broadcast stations Generally, they are in it for the money and quite often they "cut fat" and split up and sell off parts of the business in very short order. It will take at least six months for the deal to be finalized and approved.


Like I just said :


Not sure it's completely clear at this point who will be operating WKRC-TV in a year or so, but, Whoever ends up with it, I'd think WKRC would be one of the most "important" stations out of this particular deal ....



It will be interesting to see if Providence goes along with Clear Channel's current plans to move WKRC-DT back to broadcast channel 12 when analog is shut down in 2009.


Can't imagine why they wouldn't be happy with it. VHF-HI is prime real estate for DTV ...

And, keep in mind, that's not something that can be changed at the drop of a hat. They're "locked in" to their channel 12 election at this point. I don't think they would have an oppurtunity to change that before analog shut off. Could it change "someday", well sure, but not anytime soon+can't imagine why they would want it to change ....

Has anyone else noticed an audio sync issue with WLWT-DT lately? I watched the Wings game on Saturday and the audio sync was off slightly. I checked WDTN-DT, but they were running SD upconverted so it wasn't comparing apples to apples. I noticed it again last night with Heroes.

This is through the MPEG4 version of WLWT-DT through D*. I figured I should toss this out to see if anyone else experienced this problem before I started troubleshooting it further on my end.

Haven't had the lip sync problem in quite a while. I used to get it when watching a show in the buffer and then when I catch up to real time it started to get out of sync. You might try a RBR. WLWT has been ok for me lately (MPEG4).

Has anyone else noticed an audio sync issue with WLWT-DT lately? I watched the Wings game on Saturday and the audio sync was off slightly. I checked WDTN-DT, but they were running SD upconverted so it wasn't comparing apples to apples. I noticed it again last night with Heroes.

This is through the MPEG4 version of WLWT-DT through D*. I figured I should toss this out to see if anyone else experienced this problem before I started troubleshooting it further on my end.


I recorded Heroes last night off of WLWT-DT OTA. I'm planning on watching it tonight so I'll check to see if the problem is there. I capture the raw data stream so what I see/hear tonight will be exactly what I would have seen/heard last night. I don't recall ever having a lip sync issue with WLWT-DT in the past. Is this an mpeg-4 (satellite) issue only or do we not know yet? I see audio sync issues on PBS digitals fairly often (especially ThinkTV 16 and 14 digital channels) but outside of that I think it's been pretty rare to encounter.

Is this an mpeg-4 (satellite) issue only or do we not know yet?

From planet_bill's response it would seem it is localized to my box (which doesn't surprise me). Since nobody else is yelling and screaming about a lip sync issue on Heroes I'm assuming it's either MPEG4 or my box. So unless anyone else posts about a sync issue with WLWT-DT, I will assume the trouble is on my end and troubleshoot further.

We watched Heroes last night, audio was noticeably out of sync towards the end of the show. At least, that's when it was most noticeable.

We watched Heroes last night, audio was noticeably out of sync towards the end of the show. At least, that's when it was most noticeable.

What is your source? OTA, cable, or satellite? Do you have a DVR?

Druber is getting his OTA through a DVR.

I did a RBR on my HR20 and the NBC Nightly News seems to be synced. I'll check again later tonight with regular prime time programming to see if it's still synced with shows with true 5.1 programming.

Was watching OTA live last night, but yes I often record on an HTPC Mac, to the extent that those two coincide. Is it bad to want to buy a house so you can fly a decent antenna?

Watched Heroes last night and here is what I noticed (I'll try not to spoil anything but if you haven't seen this episode you may not want to read on): During the scene when Peter and Nathan were talking about Claire (after the glass had been removed from Peter's head and he had been cleaned up), on the shots from a distance the audio did appear to be out of sync. However, they'd cut to a close-up and audio seemed fine again, then cut to a distant shot and it would be off again. Other than that one scene though, I don't remember noticing any other sync issues. So I'd almost have to say that that particular issue was a production issue as it occurred from one particular shot only.

Was watching OTA live last night, but yes I often record on an HTPC Mac, to the extent that those two coincide. Is it bad to want to buy a house so you can fly a decent antenna?


No, not at all. I actually was able to get my HOA to allow me to put an antenna on the roof of my townhouse. PM me if you would like to know how. You'd need a special antenna to get WLWT from East Africa ;)

your hoa and or local government can not restrict you from putting up an antenna on your roof (provided it is less then 12 feet above the peak) unless you are in a historical district. The law is pretty cut and dry on that. As far as dishes, there is a gray area where some hoa's will argue that they can regulate placement of the dish unless to certain areas of the structure - ie.. not on the front facde of the house - unless there is no other place to get the signal.

Condominiums, landominiums, and apartments are similar in that limited common areas (roof, porch, patio, deck, green area) that are for your own private use would allow a dish or antenna to be placed - however, the grey area there is how to you get the wire into the unit... in the case of an apartment, the landlord controls the structural aspects of the building and sometimes they say fine - you can have a dish but you cant drill a whole..

Keep in mind, 16.3KW ERP is WCPO-DT's current full power allocation, it isn't reduced power ...... VHF requires much less power than UHF to cover the same area .....

Just an FYI, I've been having problems tuning in WCPO OTA for the past few weeks, and it's been particularly bad the past week, i.e. I can't tune it in at all. All other stations have been fine.

I've been getting my HD OTA for about the past three years, and other than occasional disruptions, I've never had any problems. BUT... I think I've been lucky. Three years ago I hooked my TV up to (what appears to me to be) a very old, broken antenna that's been on my house ever since we bought it. But its pulled in signals like a champ. I'm just wondering if all the wind we've had over the past few weeks may have twisted it just enough to put it out of alignment with WCPO.

I suppose the solution would be a new antenna (preferably with a rotor), but the days of me climbing 30 feet in the air on a ladder are over!

BTW, I'm a long-time reader of this forum, but I think this is the first time I've posted. I'd like to thank the regulars who post here, keeping us informed of what's going on in Cincinnati.

your hoa and or local government can not restrict you from putting up an antenna on your roof (provided it is less then 12 feet above the peak) unless you are in a historical district. The law is pretty cut and dry on that. As far as dishes, there is a gray area where some hoa's will argue that they can regulate placement of the dish unless to certain areas of the structure - ie.. not on the front facde of the house - unless there is no other place to get the signal.

Condominiums, landominiums, and apartments are similar in that limited common areas (roof, porch, patio, deck, green area) that are for your own private use would allow a dish or antenna to be placed - however, the grey area there is how to you get the wire into the unit... in the case of an apartment, the landlord controls the structural aspects of the building and sometimes they say fine - you can have a dish but you cant drill a whole..

Yes. I'm in a townhouse and the roof is clearly off-limits as it is not considered limited use space, however as I stated I got them to let me put it up there.

Yes, picking up UHD at least offsets the "loss" of INHD2. But the one I'm waiting for is ESPN2.

On WLWT...I usually see that as 5.1. But try 84.1 as I have seen in there, too.

I'm in Maineville with expanded analog cable (TWC - former Adelphia Amelia system) with no STB. I have a Sony HDTV and a MythTV DVR with analog and digital cards. Last Thursday my 2 NBC recordings didnt record. At first I thought it was the signal level - theres 2 three way splitters before the digital tuner card. When I saw these messages, I thought maybe they had moved some channels around. But I still get WLWT on 5.1 and 105.1 on the Sony. I took out one of the splitters last nite and still cant get WLWT on the Myth box with the digital tuner. The other digital channels I tried still work fine on the Myth box. I need to do some more fiddling.

Did they string fiber in Maineville a few years ago for their digital service? On my cable, all the network clear QAM stuff is on 105, 109 and 114.

Just an FYI, I've been having problems tuning in WCPO OTA for the past few weeks, and it's been particularly bad the past week, i.e. I can't tune it in at all. All other stations have been fine.


On analog WCPO 9, Any signs of increased interfererence (sparkles, static, squiggly lines/etc) since you've started having problems the digital(transmits on channel 10)?

Especially since it transmits right next door, checking your analog WCPO 9 reception could be a good "indicator" concerning what may be going wrong with your WCPO digital reception. RF is RF - In other words other than that the signal modulation used is a bit different, there really isn't much of anything different about how analog+digital TV signals "work" as they are transmitted through the airwaves + received by your antenna ... We might as well use the analogs while they're still on the air, as you can see many reception problem issues right on the screen with analog, something which isn't the case with digital OTA ..

If other VHF stations such as analog 5+12 have also gotten worse, it's possible that might be a good indication your antenna has become a little too "broken" on VHF ... I'd suspect if wind were a culprit here, it might be more likely it caused something to become "more broken" on the antenna rather than "misaiming it", as generally speaking, antenna aiming tends to be quite a bit more critical on UHF than for VHF ....

Also, although things are worse in this regard on the low VHF channels(2-6, 2-4 especially so), VHF is also more susceptable to various sorts of interference -- For instance, Nearby, strong signals from FM transmitters can cause problems(which is why FM traps are often a good idea), and there's also more pronounced interference issues on VHF vs UHF including of the "nearby electrical+RFI sources variety" which can even "emanate" from various household appliances(even from inside the TV itself), and is one of the reasons why for instance, putting antenna near, behind, or "on top of" TV often isn't a good idea ... Also unshielded 300Ohm twinlead for antenna feedline is especially good at picking up these sorts of interference ....

Other possibilities as well of course --- Sometime back, it was reported here WCPO-DT did operate for a day or two at low power because of technical issues -- I don't know if they're currently having any such problems/issues, but I can report I don't see any sign of it up here ...


Three years ago I hooked my TV up to (what appears to me to be) a very old, broken antenna that's been on my house ever since we bought it. But its pulled in signals like a champ. I'm just wondering if all the wind we've had over the past few weeks may have twisted it just enough to put it out of alignment with WCPO.

I suppose the solution would be a new antenna (preferably with a rotor), but the days of me climbing 30 feet in the air on a ladder are over!


Antennas can certianly last, and work well a very long time -- as in several decades or more --- I even see some VHF antennas on rooftops from the 50's that look like they probably still work ....

I don't know if its the cause of your current WCPO reception problem, However, antennas(and the feedline) do deteroriate over time and from what you describe it sounds to me like getting a new one probably wouldn't be a bad idea in this case ...

Besides the DIY route, here's a link to a pro OTA antenna installer in the area, several folks have reported using them here or in Dayton thread, I believe with good results :

http://www.tntpicturecompany.com/

Just some thoughts in case some of it is of use ....

edit/update: another thought - just in case you haven't already done so, you might want to try rescanning channels -- sometimes, some receivers "save" old information the station(such as PSIP info) sends as part of it's datastream to help your receiver tune to+identify the channels, and if the station makes some changes to some of that info(I don't know whether WCPO has made any such changes, however), in some cases, with some receivers a channel rescan is required in order to properly update that info+tune in the station ... Other receiver models do that automatically every time you tune to a station ....

5-1 disappeared from my TWC digital service sometime within the last couple of days. A rescan found WLWT-HD on 84-1. This is where I think it is all of the time and however TWC was remapping it to 5-1 got lost.

On analog WCPO 9, Any signs of increased interfererence (sparkles, static, squiggly lines/etc) since you've started having problems the digital(transmits on channel 10)?

Nitewatchman,
First, thanks for the quick reply.

To test this, I first looked at another SD TV I have, which is attached to the same antenna via a splitter. All stations, including WCPO, looked very good on that TV. I then went to my HD TV, and looked at analog WCPO. The PQ was noticably worse than other analog stations. (By the way, I tested this last night around 9:30 PM, it was overcast outside but no rain was falling.) But none of the analog stations looked very good on the HD TV. That's pretty much been the case from day 1, but WCPO is noticably the worst.

Just an FYI, here's how everything is connected:

Antenna -> about 6' of old two-wire flat cable -> some connector I bought three years ago that converts the two-wire to coaxial -> about 30 ' coaxial, probably RG59 -> male-male coaxial connector -> about 15' quad-shield RG6 into the house -> six-way coaxial splitter . From that point, I have one 20' RG59 cable directly to the SD TV. I have another approx. 50' quad-shield RG6 that runs to a(probably cheap) three-way splitter (one-end unused, and I imagine not capped -- its hidden in the wall), then about 20' of RG59 to another three-way splitter. From there, I have one RG6 that runs to the HD TV, and another that runs to my computer (I record HD shows with MCE2005).

So, just from typing all that out, I can see a LOT of potential weak points. I am planning on bypassing the three-way splitter in the wall, and just running the RG6 from the original 6-way splitter directly the the three way splitter immediately before the HD TV. Or, I could run two separate RG6 lines there, one dedicated to the TV and one for the computer. I bought a 1000' box of quad-shield RG6 a few months back, so I should have plenty.


Other possibilities as well of course --- Sometime back, it was reported here WCPO-DT did operate for a day or two at low power because of technical issues -- I don't know if they're currently having any such problems/issues, but I can report I don't see any sign of it up here ...

I remember experiencing problems back then, and checking the forum at the time, but the problem cleared up, and I forgot about it.



Besides the DIY route, here's a link to a pro OTA antenna installer in the area, several folks have reported using them here or in Dayton thread, I believe with good results :

http://www.tntpicturecompany.com/

Just some thoughts in case some of it is of use ....

I think I'm going to go that route. My house sits up fairly high on a hill in Pleasant Ridge, and I'm hoping with a rotor I may be able to pull in Dayton or Columbus stations

another thought - just in case you haven't already done so, you might want to try rescanning channels

Actually, that was the first thing I tried last Tuesday. When I rescanned, WCPO didn't even get picked up. I had to manually add it back to my channel list.

I should say, last night WCPO HD came in pretty well. I was able to watch Lost with no drop outs. The signal strength meter on the TV said the signal was OK, while almost all of the other stations came in as "Very Good". I know not to put too much faith in the signal strength meter, but I use it usually to confirm when the picture starts to break up, drop out, etc.

hd_newb,

Sounds to me like the antenna is still probably working OK .... Assuming they are passive devices with no amplification, You're no doubt losing a lot of signal with both the 6 way and 3 way splitters, though .... You might want to try it (temporarily) with no splitters+ A run just to the HD set+see what happens .... The LP analogs (WOTH-LP 25/WBQC-CA 38/W36DG) might be good ones to look at to give you a better idea of just how much signal you're losing via insertion loss from all the splitters ...

Anyone out there have any idea how much signal loss I would get if I painted my outdoor antenna with flat black paint?

Anyone out there have any idea how much signal loss I would get if I painted my outdoor antenna with flat black paint?


Everything I've read and heard says you can paint it with no ill effects. Paint is too thin to cause any significant signal loss. Use enamel paint, not latex. Also, be very careful not to paint the terminals.

Does anybody have this subscription? I'm just wondering if we actually get the HD games on TW Cincinnati. I can't find any confirmation on TWC's website or the digital channel guide. If anyone can confirm this, I'd appreciate it. I might sign up before the 4/30 deadline if we get all of the HD games. If not, I will definitely pass.

Does anybody have this subscription? I'm just wondering if we actually get the HD games on TW Cincinnati. I can't find any confirmation on TWC's website or the digital channel guide. If anyone can confirm this, I'd appreciate it. I might sign up before the 4/30 deadline if we get all of the HD games. If not, I will definitely pass.

Unless things have changed (and with the new agreement MLB and inDemand made, they probably have) I don't remember seeing any HD channels for any sports subscription package on TWC. You may be able to get some programming on the HD specials channel that used to appear occasionally on 976.

Unless things have changed (and with the new agreement MLB and inDemand made, they probably have) I don't remember seeing any HD channels for any sports subscription package on TWC. You may be able to get some programming on the HD specials channel that used to appear occasionally on 976.

Hmm... that stinks. Can anybody who has EI confirm? I think we're getting screwed by TWC Cinci. FSN isn't in HD for us, so if we can't get any EI games in HD, we're left with only one Fox game per week and 3 ESPN games per week in HD. I need more baseball in HD!

Hey All:

I noticed this earlier this week (on Monday), but it hasn't improved at all:

I currently received my HDTV OTA. My issue stems with 14.2, 14.3, 14.4, 14.5, 14.6, 16.2, 16.3, 16.4, and 16.5 (all ThinkTV PBS stations). I have been receiving these channels trouble free since December. However, this past Monday, there was absolutely no audio to these digital channels. The picture would come out crystal clear (and in Hi-Def), but there was absolutely not a single bit of sound from these digital channels. This had never happened before, and does not happen on any other channel (including 16, the analog ThinkTV channel). Is there a problem with my end of the set up? Is there anything I should do?

I know many of you don't watch PBS, but if did receive these channels before with HD OTA, can you reproduce my problem?

Thanks,

Jason

I know many of you don't watch PBS, but if did receive these channels before with HD OTA, can you reproduce my problem?


I watch quite a bit of PBS, including from WPTD-DT and WPTO-DT. I can't reproduce your problem, at least currently. I can't recall whether I watched anything from them Monday or what time/etc, however - I have watched several programs on both stations since then (HD on 16.6 or 14.6 or lately SD mostly on 16.3 ), and the audio was fine.

Only thing I've noticed is one evening recently I switched to 14.6 during prime time(between 8-10pm), and there was no programming, although they were in "HD mode" with nothing on 14.4+14.5. I think this


Is there anything I should do?


Assuming you are still having the problem, as if I understand you correctly I think that's what you are saying -- You could try a channel rescan which might help if they've changed something in their datastream that's effecting your receiver or, if your receiver has a function that allows you to "switch" audio streams, you could try switching to a different audio stream for each subchannel ...

Also, a bit of perhaps useful info -- digital Stations can send two audio streams per programming service(subchannel), - for example, one stream could be in English language and the other in spanish. One one receiver I have here, there's a "audio" button on remote that allows you to switch between the two audio streams - If you have something like that, you might want to try switching to the "other one" on each subchannel and see what happens. Also, FYI, TSreader is currently showing 2 elementary AC3 audio streams per programming service(subchannel) for both of those stations - For example, 16.2 has AC3 audio streams with PID'S(packet Identifiers) of 0x0034 and 0x0037, respectively.

Anyway -- assuming your still having the issue(i.e. it wasn't a temporary glitch at the station which has since been fixed), and it's only effecting the ThinkTV stations, and a rescan/etc. doesn't fix it, you might want to contact their engineers -- I've had good results with them in the past via the engineering email address in the contact info at their website ...

Thanks!

I contacted their engineering dept. and I got a response, it basically said that they recently "re-programmed" their audio for their digital subchannels. Somehow, my receiver defaulted on the "Spanish" audio feed after the re-program (which obviously is silent when there is no spanish audio). A simple press of the "audio" button fixed the problem.

Boy, am I stupid!

Thanks,

Jason






Assuming you are still having the problem, as if I understand you correctly I think that's what you are saying -- You could try a channel rescan which might help if they've changed something in their datastream that's effecting your receiver or, if your receiver has a function that allows you to "switch" audio streams, you could try switching to a different audio stream for each subchannel ...

Also, a bit of perhaps useful info -- digital Stations can send two audio streams per programming service(subchannel), - for example, one stream could be in English language and the other in spanish. One one receiver I have here, there's a "audio" button on remote that allows you to switch between the two audio streams - If you have something like that, you might want to try switching to the "other one" on each subchannel and see what happens. Also, FYI, TSreader is currently showing 2 elementary AC3 audio streams per programming service(subchannel) for both of those stations - For example, 16.2 has AC3 audio streams with PID'S(packet Identifiers) of 0x0034 and 0x0037, respectively.

Boy, am I stupid!


Not at all .. Unfortunetly, Different receiver models handle those sorts of changes "differently" ... For instance, Some store such info as where to find the audio streams only when you do a channel scan, thus with those receivers in some(or many?) cases when stations make changes, a rescan is necessary ... Other receivers update that info from each station whenever(as in anytime) you tune to it. I think the latter is the best method ....

I received the following email from TWC this afternoon:

ESPN2 in HD and ESPNU are scheduled to be added to the channel line-up in Southwest Ohio during the third quarter of this year.

The launch dates will be widely publicized.
Sounds like once again Cincinnati will be behind the rest of the TWC divisions, making it a total of more than 2 1/2 years between additions to the HD channels (in total number, I know they replaced INHD2 with UniHD).

ESPN2 in HD and ESPNU are scheduled to be added to the channel line-up in Southwest Ohio during the third quarter of this year.

The launch dates will be widely publicized.

And no doubt will coincide with a rate increase :mad:

I was watching WXIX HD tonight (24) and was getting scrambled picture off and on. Called Time Warner and they made me turn off the box, then they sent some kind of signal to it and turned it off again, but yet I have the same problem.

Anyone know what else I can do?

24 on WXIX-DT looked good to me via MPEG4 D*. Can you describe "scrambled picture off and on" a little more? Did the picture break up with large colored blocks or do you mean scrambled like HBO used to be "scrambled"? Is this on a DVR? Does it consistantly break up on the same spot on the recording?

My assumption at this time is you're having signal strength issues which is causing the picture to break up.

No issues during 24 last night for me (OTA).

You might want to try it (temporarily) with no splitters+ A run just to the HD set+see what happens .... The LP analogs (WOTH-LP 25/WBQC-CA 38/W36DG) might be good ones to look at to give you a better idea of just how much signal you're losing via insertion loss from all the splitters ...

I finally got to this yesterday. When I hooked the line directly from the antenna to the TV, all HD channels came in great, including WCPO. The signal strength meter on the TV showed strong signals for all the DT channels.

I forgot to check the low-power analog stations, but I did check analog WCPO, and it looked very good, much better than its ever looked on my HD TV.

I also tested bypassing the six-way splitter, by feeding the signal into the two three-way (two-way?? one line in, two lines out) splitters immediately before the TV. This resulted in WCPO DT loosing maybe 30% strength on the signal meter, but the picture still came in fine.

However, ultimately, I'd like to keep the six-way splitter, since its mounted in my media-hub in the basement. Its a passive one-line in, six-lines out splitter, although only two of the six are being used at the moment. I intend to run one RG6 line to each of the four bedrooms, although we have no TVs in any of the bedrooms now, and probably will have only one in the master bedroom when all is said and done. I'd just like to future-proof it now since I'm remodeling the basement and have access from there to the attic.

This should probably be moved to another forum, but I'm wondering, should I buy a signal amplifier and place it before the six-way splitter? I thought I've heard in the past that signal boosters aren't a cure-all, but if the incoming signal is strong, would the booster help distribute it to the six lines?

HDTV and rabbit ears, finally the word is out!, lol

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/05/01/rabbit.ear.revival.ap/index.html

24 on WXIX-DT looked good to me via MPEG4 D*. Can you describe "scrambled picture off and on" a little more? Did the picture break up with large colored blocks or do you mean scrambled like HBO used to be "scrambled"? Is this on a DVR? Does it consistantly break up on the same spot on the recording?

My assumption at this time is you're having signal strength issues which is causing the picture to break up.

Large colored blocks, yeah it was using DVR. After about 30 minutes after making a post about it, the problem seemed to stop though.

I'm starting to hate Time Warner anymore. I'm paying around $140-150 a month for road runnder, two boxes (1 HD-DVR, 1 HD-Non DVR) with HD Tier, HBO, Cinemax. Sigh..

ESPN2 in HD and ESPNU are scheduled to be added to the channel line-up in Southwest Ohio during the third quarter of this year.

The launch dates will be widely publicized.

Widely publicized? That is really funny. Like when they added Universal HD?? It was at least a week after it was added even before it was on their website...

It wouldn't surprise me if they publicize it AFTER it is implemented...

The "widely publicized" remark was what led to my conclusion that it would coincide with (as justification for) a rate increase :rolleyes:

I'm an ex-D* subscriber who left them over HD issues and am steadfast in my refusal to subscribe to what the sat providers are currently passing off as "HD" but my discontent with TWC grows with each passing day :mad:

I may just have to move to a Verizon service area with FIOS to be ultimately satisfied :D

hd-newb:
If I had 1000' of RG-6 and all of those splitters, mael-to-males and flat lead-to-coax I know what I'd do... The uncapped splitters aren't helping a bit, either. Why not leave that space for the splitter accessible in the basement when you finish it, use only the 2-way splitter you need, and leave the coax from all of those theoretical future bedroom sets terminated there (with some slack, of course) to be attached to a 3-way, 4-way, whatever ONLY when it's needed? I'm probalby just jealous of your big coil of RG-6; paid 19 cents a foot for another 50 feet at Lowe's the other day...

Update (just saw tyromark's post) -- Agree with tyromark concerning getting rid of any splitters you don't need -- also, In my experience, in most cases putting a 75 Ohm resistor as terminator "cap" on any unused ports is a good idea, but it doesn't change the loss you're getting from the splitter, or at least not by anywhere near as much as if you just removed the splitter ....
end update

but I'm wondering, should I buy a signal amplifier and place it before the six-way splitter? I thought I've heard in the past that signal boosters aren't a cure-all, but if the incoming signal is strong, would the booster help distribute it to the six lines?

Yes - amp would help recover the losses from the splitting. That's one of the main reasons I use preamps here -- I feed quite a number of devices in 4 different rooms with the antenna(s) feeds, but with the exception of one 3-way splitter, I only use 2 way splitters -- quite a number of them - I do this because I want some devices to get "more" signal than others, so they can receive weaker signals via "DX" more sucessfully.

This wouldn't be necessarily possible in a fringe or "extreme fringe" area, but I like to have at least around 10db More signal than I need for the weakest local DTV stations (in my case that's WCVN-DT or WBDT-DT), in order to account for any conditions that might cause fading or if the stations temporarily go to low power/etc. The way it works out here, I have about 40db difference between the weakest+strongest local DTV stations. How I measure this sort of thing is to add additonal attenution into feedline until I get down to just the "threshold" of perfect DTV reception, but to do that+be able to get some sort of useful measurement, the signal does have to be "clean" and multipath free to begin with .... For instance, on one of my DTV receiver's(for this one there are two 2 way splitters along with preamp(s - have seperate setup for UHF+VHF) and a few other things between the antenna+receiver) it takes between 50~60db extra attenuation for most stations(such as WCPO-DT, WKRC-DT, WLWT-DT, WDTN-DT/etc) to get down near losing a lock, and about 20db extra attenuation to get down to near threshold levels for WBDT-DT and WCVN-DT.

What you suggest would work for that, but You also might want to think about a distribution amp with multiple outputs and replace the 6 way splitter with it - although you're really doing the same thing with a preamp before the splitter+it probably wouldn't matter which way you do it. A potential problem might be, if the preamp is being fed "too strong" signal, it's possible the amp can become overloaded+cause problems as well - although, if necessary you could allways add a bit of attenuation just before the preamp, or filter off/knock down some of the strongest signals(that can get a bit complicated though, especially if you want to use the antenna to view those signals) if it turns out to be a problem. You might want to check out the Cincinnati file for "google 3d Coverage maps" thread in Hardware area for your location --- You'll probably have to be careful with preamps if the longely-rice coverage map for any station shows White (or maybe reddish white) for your location ....

The other thing to think about (especially if your current antenna is "broken" - Ie missing elements, is quite old/etc), is something we've already talked about -- getting a new antenna(and new coax for the "first" run from the antenna into the house), and therefore potentially increasing the amount of signal you have to work with begin with .... If you do that, it may turn out you may not need to add any preamps - but then again, it may not turn out that way, either .... As much as you are wanting to split the signal, I think a amp of some sort is probably going to end up being a good idea for you regardless of what antenna you're using ...

Each time you split a signal with a 2 way splitter ,that's about -3.5db loss or 1/2 signal loss (or about 3db) ... which is the same as if a station cut it's power by 1/2. Approx 100FT of RG6 loses about 4db on UHF, much less loss on VHF. Since db scale is "logarhythmic" and if you have a strong signal at antenna to begin with, 3db is really not that much. For example, Typically, in strong signal areas you can easily have 60db or MORE signal than you need - but, with the all the coax runs and splitting you're doing, you can easily Lose a lot of that as well. To put that into a bit of perspective, Typical VHF/UHF combo antennas generally have about 5~8db gain on VHF, and about 10~15db gain on UHF .....

Now, a passive 6 way splitter, if it's designed so that each port is split "evenly" will probably cause at LEAST 18db signal loss or so, probably more. That really is a lot ... From what I can tell, The 4 way splitters I've tested here seem to have about 10~12db signal loss, the 2 way splitters about 3.5db - I have a couple of 3 way splitters which act as a 2 way splitter on 2 ports(about 3.5db loss), and the 3rd port gets less, and has about 7db loss.

Hope that helps -- I know some of the above is a lot, but given what you've found out so far, I have a feeling it won't be too difficult for you to get it straightened out to your liking ....

WKRC-DT/CBS HD Greenish Tint issue has been fixed ...

They are also working on some other issues, including getting the automation for HD switching up and running ....

---------------------------------------------------

BTW, as for my observations, I noticed last night during Letterman in A/B comparisons with WHIO-DT that the greenish tint issue was gone ..

Watching the Reds game tonight, I noticed that Dish Network now has the Reds on Sports Alternate 445 in addition to the normal 427. Could this be the channel that carries the HD broadcasts that are sometimes shown on the Reds schedule on the web site?

Maybe just wishful thinking.

The RSN's in HD are in the 360's and 370's.

Ansarar,

I have yet to see a Reds game in HD on ANY DISH Network RSN channel.

As far as I know DISH still does not have an agreement to carry the Cincy Fox RSN in HD. IF (and when) they do the channels will likely be carried on another satellite slot (most likely 61.5 or 129). At this time DISH just does not have available bandwidth at the main slots (119 and 110) to carry additional HD channels.

Ansarar,

I have yet to see a Reds game in HD on ANY DISH Network RSN channel.

As far as I know DISH still does not have an agreement to carry the Cincy Fox RSN in HD. IF (and when) they do the channels will likely be carried on another satellite slot (most likely 61.5 or 129). At this time DISH just does not have available bandwidth at the main slots (119 and 110) to carry additional HD channels.

I was afraid it was wishful thinking. Thanks for the info. RSN? Regional Sports Network?

RSN? Regional Sports Network?

Yes. You can get the whole package of RSNs from DISH for about $5 a month and that includes the HD RSNs (provided you have the right dish). Of course when the RSNs do have a HD baseball game it is blacked out in our area.

Yes. You can get the whole package of RSNs from DISH for about $5 a month and that includes the HD RSNs (provided you have the right dish). Of course when the RSNs do have a HD baseball game it is blacked out in our area.

Come again? I can get all of the FSNs including the HD ones for 5 bucks a month?

I have a sound hiccup on TW HD channels tonight. My TV? Or TW?

Come again? I can get all of the FSNs including the HD ones for 5 bucks a month?

Yeah, E* has a pretty good RSN package price for what you end up getting, but as Bill R (# 2) inferred, any professional sport will be blacked out if you're out of market along with the possibility of blackouts of out of market college basketball/football.

You know the out of market PPV packages the leagues sell can't get undercut by some cheap RSN package.

I have a sound hiccup on TW HD channels tonight. My TV? Or TW?

I watched Lost this evening and it sounded fine to me though the MPEG4 locals on D*.

Hey everybody! Quick question: does anyone have trouble getting channel 5 in HD? I get WXIX just fine, which is in the same direction as channel 5, but for some reason channel 5 is very choppy. I'm using a Hauppage WinTV 950 with the antenna it came with. Thanks!

I had a sound problem on lost where the center channel was non existent for about 10 minutes.. watching ota via the hr20 - I have a feeling it was the hr20

Hey everybody! Quick question: does anyone have trouble getting channel 5 in HD? I get WXIX just fine, which is in the same direction as channel 5, but for some reason channel 5 is very choppy. I'm using a Hauppage WinTV 950 with the antenna it came with. Thanks!


As of 11am I am receiving WLWT-DT with no problem and my software's "signal" meter says Locked at 98%. I have generally found WLWT-DT to be one of the easiest stations to receive. Some specifics about your location and situation (how is the antenna aimed and is it by a window, in the basement... ?) might help more, but in general I would suggest moving the antenna to a different location to see if that helps. By a window is probably best, especially one facing the towers.

As of 11am I am receiving WLWT-DT with no problem and my software's "signal" meter says Locked at 98%. I have generally found WLWT-DT to be one of the easiest stations to receive. Some specifics about your location and situation (how is the antenna aimed and is it by a window, in the basement... ?) might help more, but in general I would suggest moving the antenna to a different location to see if that helps. By a window is probably best, especially one facing the towers.

I have tried placing the antenna outside and it still comes in choppy. The antenna I have is a small non-amplified multi-directional antenna that came with the tuner. Should I just upgrade the antenna? Would buying an amplified multi-directional antenna be fine since I am within 10 miles of all the towers? I'm in Deer Park 45236. Thanks for the help!

I have tried placing the antenna outside and it still comes in choppy. The antenna I have is a small non-amplified multi-directional antenna that came with the tuner. Should I just upgrade the antenna? Would buying an amplified multi-directional antenna be fine since I am within 10 miles of all the towers? I'm in Deer Park 45236. Thanks for the help!

Probably don't need an amplifier, especially that close to the towers. I've had luck with an antenna like the "silver sensor" (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html). I currently have a rooftop antenna but before I did I was using an antenna like the silver sensor and had no trouble with any of the Cincinnati stations from Sharonville. I was also able to pick up all of the Dayton stations as well (except WBDT-DT (Dayton CW)). The silver sensor is a directional antenna and I had best luck with it by a second floor window aimed toward the towers. Good luck!

I have tried placing the antenna outside and it still comes in choppy. The antenna I have is a small non-amplified multi-directional antenna that came with the tuner. Should I just upgrade the antenna? Would buying an amplified multi-directional antenna be fine since I am within 10 miles of all the towers? I'm in Deer Park 45236. Thanks for the help!

The WLWT-DT signal ought to be more than enough to pick up in Deer Park. It sounds like you're getting interference from somewhere or may be suffering from multipath on that channel (UHF 35). How long do you get a consistent signal lock before you have a dropout? If you're looking to just pick up Cincinnati stations, I'd recommend stepping up to a directional indoor antenna. DTV off-the-air signals are more sensitive to multipath than their analog counterparts.

What part of Deer Park are you? 45236 has a decent elevation change from one part to the next.. you may also be Sycamore Township and depending on where you are it may effect things based on the antenna you use.

I have tried placing the antenna outside and it still comes in choppy. The antenna I have is a small non-amplified multi-directional antenna that came with the tuner. Should I just upgrade the antenna? Would buying an amplified multi-directional antenna be fine since I am within 10 miles of all the towers? I'm in Deer Park 45236. Thanks for the help!

I'm on Matson Ave, just before you get into Amberly Village.

Basically what happens with the signal, is the sound is fine, but the picture just has a slight but VERY annoying skip to it, like 25 frames are fine and smooth, but then the next 5 are skipped. It's most noticeable with sporting events or anything with an object that is moving.

So going with an internal directional antenna would be best? Thx for al the help!

DTV off-the-air signals are more sensitive to multipath than their analog counterparts.

Analog is awfully senstitive to multipath, any of it whatsoever shows up as ghosts right on screen.

With digital, unfortunetly since we're missing any sort of multipath "indicator" as a diagnostic tool on are receiver, we're pretty much flying blind concerning what is causing what unless you have a spectrum analyzer. for instance, The same symptoms that we see (bouncing around so called "signal meter", dropouts) when our receivers have difficultly correcting for multipath are the same symptoms which can be caused by a variety of issues ... Such as interference, front-end of receiver or preamp being "overloaded", IMD and/or other receiver performance selectivity/sensitivity issues are some of the things I can think of at present ....

Also, You can't compare directly to what's happening with analog signals, as not only can multipath conditions be very frequency(channel) specific : at least in our area -- no station is transmitting digital+analog from the SAME transmitting antenna.

So even if it's coming just from a different spot/different transmitting antenna on the same tower, it can make the multipath conditions different, even if its on channels right next to each other ... Although, for instance it's probably easier to guess a bit that the situaton is probably somewhat "similar" regarding multipath conditions at any given receive location for stations such as WCPO 9/WCPO-DT 10 than if the digital+analog counterparts are spread across the dial, or transmitting from entirely different tower locations.

Also, While our receivers for digital can do a remarkable job handling multipath in some circumstances, they don't do such a good job in all circumstances regarding "different" sorts of multipath conditions.

Which one is "worse" (analog or digital regarding multipath) probably mostly depends upon whether you think a video signal full of nasty ghosts is worse, or better than getting complete "dropouts" of video/audio with digital when the receiver can't correct for multipath .... What is nice about analog is you can see what's going on directly on screen with multipath+adjust antenna accordingly for best results ..... And, Again, perhaps the only way we could somewhat compare the two would be to have a station transmitting analog part of the day, then switch to digital with the same transmitter/transmitting antenna on the SAME channel(frequency) later that same day ...

I'm on Matson Ave, just before you get into Amberly Village.

Basically what happens with the signal, is the sound is fine, but the picture just has a slight but VERY annoying skip to it, like 25 frames are fine and smooth, but then the next 5 are skipped. It's most noticeable with sporting events or anything with an object that is moving.

So going with an internal directional antenna would be best? Thx for al the help!

hmm ... Especially if it's that "regular", I don't think it's likely your issue is reception related, if it were, the audio would drop as well - If the video stream can't be decoded due to reception problem, the audio can't be either. Could be something else, but Sounds like a pulldown or decoding issue to me.

FWIW, I'm using Hauppaguge WINTV HVR1600 and haven't seen this problem with WLWT-DT ... I'm not using any of the software that came with it (the wintv2000 stuff or included decoders), instead am using 3rd party software (such as WatchHDTV, XP MCE, and usually cyberlink MPEG2+AC3 audio decoders - sometimes use Elecard decoders for certian applications however, such as for WMV-HD encoding) ..

hmm ... Especially if it's that "regular", I don't think it's likely your issue is reception related, if it were, the audio would drop as well - If the video stream can't be decoded due to reception problem, the audio can't be either. Could be something else, but Sounds like a pulldown or decoding issue to me.

FWIW, I'm using Hauppaguge WINTV HVR1600 and haven't seen this problem with WLWT-DT ... I'm not using any of the software that came with it (the wintv2000 stuff or included decoders), instead am using 3rd party software (such as WatchHDTV, XP MCE, and usually cyberlink MPEG2+AC3 audio decoders - sometimes use Elecard decoders for certian applications however, such as for WMV-HD encoding) ..

If it were a pulldown issue, wouldn't I have this problem on other stations? How many FPS are coming through on these OTA DTV stations? I'm using the software that came with the tuner. I already have an ATI analog tuner that I'm using with MCE and I haven't gotten both to work yet.

Currently I'm using 60hz refresh rate. Is HDTV 24fps? If that's the case that might in fact explain why it's skipping.

If it were a pulldown issue, wouldn't I have this problem on other stations?


Not necessarily, although "pulldown issue" was just a term I using quite "generally", but perhaps not entirely accurately regarding some specific issues that might be involved ...

For instance, I had an issue with a couple of stations at one time --- this involved a dayton+Columbus station both using the same model of encoder. In this case they were sending 720p, and the issue only occured during some sources sourced from film or 24p HD, not for live sports for example - not just HD but via the stations SD upconverts as well. It was quite similar to what you're getting, creating a "stuttering effect" but only occured on one decoder here(other receivers were fine) - a Zenith HDV420 STB ---

I worked with their engineers on it, and it turned out to involve a "repeat field detection" setting on their encoder, turning that off on their end fixed the problem on the zenith+from my understanding, several other models of receivers/decoders(hardware) as well. What Repeat field detection was supposed to do was offer a bandwidth savings by not sending any fields that contained duplicate (or repeated) data+the user's decoder was "supposed" to draw those duplicate fields ... But, at least in some cases, obvioulsly, they didn't ....

I should add, regarding my experience here, I haven't used the HVR1600 with WLWT-DT during any HD sports broadcasts, so if it's happening regarding WLWT-DT+affecting how I have things set up for HTPC, I may have just not seen it yet ... I've only had it since feb, and as per my recollection, regarding WLWT-
DT or NBC HD, have Only used it for "HD DVR" (TS or "DVR-MS captures") for shows such as "ER" ....



Currently I'm using 60hz refresh rate. Is HDTV 24fps? If that's the case that might in fact explain why it's skipping.

HD can be 24fps(film sources or HD 24p sources), but for live sports at 1080i it would be 29.97fps interlaced (but 59.94 1920x540 fields per second), I think most people would probably refer to that as 30fps interlaced --- 720p is 60fps, although it too could involve only 24fps of "original data", such as from HD content sourced from film or 24p HD sources ...

Perhaps somewhat relevant, think I'd read NBC sends inverse telecine flags for their HD feed from film or 24p sources which can be utilized at the station, and I think someone had also posted here way back that WLWT-DT is implementing those, but I think that *should* only happen for 24fps sources(such as filmed or 24p HD content - such as say, "ER" ...) ...

In any case, my main point was, I think if it were reception problem, not only would this problem not effect only the video stream, and not seem so "regular" as you are reporting but it also would occur at other times besides during live sports .... Although, at times it is possible for reception issue(just barely "at threshold" for reception - which can be caused by uncorrectable multipath, but could also be caused among other things, for instance because there's just "barely enough signal there") --- to cause corruption of video "on screen"(loss of some pixel information/etc) and one may not notice any corruption of audio stream ...

Update: Really, I'm wondering more than anything else if it may have to do with how your MPEG2 decoder(or video display hardware or drivers for video card/etc) is handling deinterlacing or "pulldown" issues ....

I'm at home now looking at it and the skips aren't as regular as I thought. I moved the antenna around and I think it got better, although the video still skips a bit on WLWT. WXIX is liquid smooth. Sound doesn't appear to be affected on WLWT. I tried changing the refresh rate around and it didn't seem to help.

Should I invest in a directional antenna anyway or would it most likely not help?

I'm at home now looking at it and the skips aren't as regular as I thought. I moved the antenna around and I think it got better, although the video still skips a bit on WLWT. WXIX is liquid smooth. Sound doesn't appear to be affected on WLWT. I tried changing the refresh rate around and it didn't seem to help.

Should I invest in a directional antenna anyway or would it most likely not help?


What are the specs on your computer? I'm primarily interested in processor and graphics card, but be as specific as you can.

Also, please check WKRC-DT (channel 12-1 (CBS)) and see if there is any such issue there.

What are the specs on your computer? I'm primarily interested in processor and graphics card, but be as specific as you can.

Also, please check WKRC-DT (channel 12-1 (CBS)) and see if there is any such issue there.


WKRC looks fine I think, with a few skips here and there.

PC is an AMD A64 Sempron o/c'ed to 1840mhz. Gfx card is a 6600GT not o/c'ed at all. System is stable so I know that's not an issue and it should be enough horsepower I think. 512mb ram.

that pc should work fine - the 6600gt is what I have in my htpc with and athlon 64 3000 and 512 mb ram.. the tuner is the dvico fusion 5 - what is your antenna?? I not not familiar with what comes with the huppage - you could try a simple uhf / vhf combo - $35 at lowes or home depot.. and see what happens.. where you are, you should be ok, even thought there are a good number of trees inbetween you and the station. One last thing to check.. try and download a quick time hd file and see how it plays.. if it staggers then that could be your problem - but I doubt its the pc

jim

Do keep in mind the tuner paladry1 is using is a USB stick tuner ...

I'm assuming this issue happens with recordings(such as TS captures, or program streams to MPG or DVR-ms files?) as well, and not just when watching "live" ?

I dunno about how it works with the 900 or 950, but when I played around with the software that came with the HVR1600 a bit(HVR 1600 is a PCI card btw), I noticed the Hauppauge WinTV software+directshow filters it uses when watching live DTV does seem to use up a lot more CPU time when watching "live TV" than one should probably think should be necessary.

If I recall correctly, when using WinTV2000 to watch live HD, it looked like I don't think it was even utilizing capability for MPEG2 decoder to utilize my video card to do some hardware acceleration, even though the Mainconcept(formerly mainconcept/elecard) decoders that came with the card I do believe supported that ... BTW, I'm using XP, AMD 64 X2 4200+, 2GB ram, ATI X1600 video card ....

BTW, FWIW, Probably the biggest issue for me with various software for HTPC was keeping track of what software installed what directshow filters with tools such as graphedit, as with XP anyway, those directshow filters can quickly become a real mess if you install a lot of software that uses+installs Dshow filters ..... And sometimes, doesn't uninstall those filters(or uninstall them fully) when you uninstall the software .... For instance, you'll have things working nicely, then can run into problems if you later install some software which for instance installs say a MPEG2 decoder/dshow filter IT likes+raises the merit on it so it's the one much other software ends up using as well ...

Should I invest in a directional antenna anyway or would it most likely not help?

Look at the signal meter, that should tell you. If you're using Hauppauge's winTV2000, there should be a signal quality meter of sorts in the "channel manager" functions. Make sure you're measuring for WLWT-DT. If the signal meter bounces around a lot+is occasionally dropping near, or below the point required for decoding the datastreams(with my HVR1600, that is about 50% reading on the meter), and those low points correspond to where you're seeing the "stutters", then you probably want to improve your antenna setup.

Note that these meters are usually looking at bit rate error, not the RF signal itself ... The more errors, the lower the reading ....

Again, if you are getting reception related dropouts, it will effect the audio as well, not just the video as it means the signal is dropping below the threshold required to decode any of the datastreams .... about 16db signal over noise .... remember, that doesn't just necessarily equate to a weak signal, as for example, uncorrectable multipath is just seen as extra "noise" by the receiver ....

and it should be enough horsepower I think. 512mb ram.

It should be to I'd think, but as I noted above in more detail, my experience with the Hauppauge software that came with my HVR1600 indicated that software seemed to be quite CPU intensive when viewing HD "live" ...

What is your CPU usage(such as via WINXP's CPU usage monitor in performance tab of task monitor(CTRL-ALT-Delete to access) showing when you're watching 1080i HD?

FWIW, Playing around with various CPU intensive AVsynth scripts+filters with FFDshow, I've noticed that on my machine at least, getting around or much above 60% CPU usage+I'll start getting that "stuttering" of the video type of stuff ....

Update: Just for completeness ... Also, I'd think you'd want to make sure your using a USB 2.0 port for the tuner, as if I recall correctly, max data rate with USB 1.x is only about 12mb/s ... Maximum data rate for "HD" via a OTA ATSC source you'd be getting coming from your tuner is 19.39Mb/s ... I'd think you must be using USB 2.0 port however, otherwise I wouldn't think the HD from WXIX-DT would be "smooth", either ....

WKRC looks fine I think, with a few skips here and there.

PC is an AMD A64 Sempron o/c'ed to 1840mhz. Gfx card is a 6600GT not o/c'ed at all. System is stable so I know that's not an issue and it should be enough horsepower I think. 512mb ram.


Don't want to jump to conclusions, but with the evidence we have so far, I'd say it's a pretty good chance it's your computer, not the antenna. Some things to keep in mind:

1.) Capturing (recording) ATSC (OTA HD) is very easy, all the computer has to do is write the raw data it gets off the antenna to the hard disk. This will be ~19.4Mbps no matter how the station is configured. Some software will strip out unnecessary data from the stream (for example if you capture 5-1, it will strip out 5-2 and any NULL packets and other extraneous info not required to play back 5-1). My software does this overnight, after the recording. I am not aware of software that does this on the fly but it might exist.

2.) Displaying HD video is NOT easy for the computer. It is very hard on the video card and CPU.

3.) WXIX-DT sends 720p. WLWT-DT sends 1080i, which is harder to decode/display. The reason I asked you about WKRC-DT is because they also broadcast in 1080i. Also note that WLWT-DT currently devotes the largest amount of bandwidth (just under 17Mbps) to the HD channel of any other channel in the area (except for possibly WBDT-DT but that's in Dayton). This should mean a better picture, but it also means more data for the CPU/video card to process.

4.) If you are using Windows Vista (ESPECIALLY the Vista MCE abilities), I have seen the stutter effects in the video (and not the audio). I actually was running Vista MCE for a bit and had that issue. I later switched back to Windows XP and I run BeyondTV 4.6, which I can say with quite a large amount of certainty is the best DVR software out there, by far. I have no issues with BeyondTV (or the software that was bundled with my ATI HDTV Wonder card.


I'm probably about ready to put money on the fact that it's your computer trying to DISPLAY the HD rather than your antenna/tuner trying to RECEIVE it.

For a test that may prove to be fairly conclusive, I would suggest trying to tune to 5-2 (WLWT NBC Weather Plus). This video should be much easier for your computer to display, and it comes from the same transport stream that 5-1 (WLWT HD) does. If WeatherPlus plays back without a hitch, it's your computer. If it has issues as well, we can't yet rule out the antenna/tuner.

Also if you can confirm what (OS and software) you are using to view HDTV that would be helpful as well.

Hauppage software must suck. I setup MCE by installing the digital TV patch and setup HDTV channels, they are all liquid smooth now, including WLWT!!!! Well, it's almost perfect anyway, there's still an occasional skip and it takes longer than other channels to come up initially. Would anyone recommend getting an amplified internal antenna to get rid of any skips?

Hauppage software must suck. I setup MCE by installing the digital TV patch and setup HDTV channels, they are all liquid smooth now, including WLWT!!!! Well, it's almost perfect anyway, there's still an occasional skip and it takes longer than other channels to come up initially. Would anyone recommend getting an amplified internal antenna to get rid of any skips?


Try the test I suggested above. Watch WLWT-WX on 5-2 ad see how it looks (watch for skips, not talking about picture quality here). Also I'm not sure if MCE has a "signal strength" meter but if it does, you should check it. I really don't think you have a reception issue.

Also as Jeff suggested it would be a good idea to check processor usage. Press CTRL + ALT + DEL and then use task manager, under the "performance" tab to check current proc. utilization.

Also, amp is probably not something you want, and it could cause things to get worse by over amplifying the already strong signals in your area. Even if your issue were reception related (I'm about 99% sure it's not at this point), it would more than likely be multipath or interference related, not a weak signal issue.


Additional thought: I would highly recommend installing the trial of BeyondTV (download it at www.snapstream.com). If you like it it's well worth the money, and as I said earlier it's better than anything else out there... by far.

I am not aware of software that does this on the fly but it might exist.


It doesn't have to 'strip it out', really, instead some software simply only saves the elementary streams for the program service you wish to record rather than the entire transport stream and the null packets/PSIP or streams for other program services(subchannels) ... Or in other words, just ignores everything else except the program service(subchannel) you want .... It doesn't need to reencode, it's still just saving the datastreams(but only for a specific subchannel) just as the broadcaster sends it ....

Pretty sure MCE does this for it's DVR-MS files(to be honest, I don't use MCE much, as I prefer WatchHDTV's spartan nature) so does the dvr-ms version of watchhdtv (there's a TS version of it as well, see the watchhdtv thread in HTPC area for more info. There's also a freeware DVR (GB-DVR I think it's called) I've tested that lets you save a TS file for recording, but with only a single program stream. It also does DVR-MS.

The hauppauge software (wintv2000) does that as well when you use it to record, as a mpg file (program stream ....)

HDTVtoMPEG2 (I know that's what it's called but ...) is also a nice tool which lets you "quickly" strip out the unwanted streams from a TS file+save only the stream(such as the HD stream) you want, and it also has a nice commercial removal utility ..... I use that for TS files sometimes, and DVR-MStoolbox for DVR-MS files, and sometimes cutting utilities such as MPG2CUT for MPG files, DVRedit for DVR-MS editing/cutting/etc....

For folks recording via firewire to PC from a STB(or my Sony KD34XBR960 has a firewire port), usually you don't get the entire transport stream either, even though you save it as a TS file (usually), you are just getting the video+audio streams for the "subchannel" you're tuned to ...

Try the test I suggested above. Watch WLWT-WX on 5-2 ad see how it looks (watch for skips, not talking about picture quality here). Also I'm not sure if MCE has a "signal strength" meter but if it does, you should check it. I really don't think you have a reception issue.


Good idea Jim .... I'd also still take a look at the signal meter as well to see if it drops when the "skips" occur ... Although again, if it's a reception problem, just as is the case 5-2 would "mess up" as well, on 5-1 the audio is going to cut out as well as the video 99.99999% of the time (ok, that's a made up number, but you get the idea) ......

Hauppage software must suck.


That was my general impression of it, unfortunetly :) ...

The drivers for my hauppage card seem to work just fine however the IR software for the remote(which works for MCE and power DVD and to a certian extent with media player as well) hangs when system resumes from standby, at least it does when it's the ONLY software I have installed of the stuff included on the CD with the card ....

I don't really use/like MCE much either ... I haven't tried the software Jim mentioned, but I like WatchHDTV --- I use both the TS(captures entire transport stream) and "main" (DVR-MS files) versions of watchhdtv, including the players for the files .... I personally like the "spartan" nature of it, and that it's not very demanding on system resources(not just when using it's scheduler/etc. as DVR, even when watching live) and allows you to easily setup different decoders to use with it ... It's free as well ... See here :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10482037#post10482037

GB-DVR (I think that's what it's called, it's something like that) is another one which is more geared towards being a DVR vs. WatchHDTV which works nicely both to view Live HDTV and as a DVR ... but when I tried GB-DVR, I found it to use quite a bit more resources, and you're pretty much tied to setting up/using a zaptoit account/program guide with it .... Although, the way it imports zaptoit program guide info works very nicely, and I was surprised to see they seemed to have accurate program info for all the local stations multicast services ....

Oh BTW, It's not that I'm "opposed" to paying $ for software, I've done a LOT of that over the years, enough to last the rest of my lifetime as far as contributing to Microsoft+other companies bottom lines, actually -- It's just that there are so many great freeware tools available for HTPC use, It's great to be able to try a bunch of stuff to find what works best for you+for your pc and what you want to do without having to spend a bunch of money to find out ...

In fact, going the freeware/shareware method for HTPC stuff to start out with is in the long run probably going to help me make better choices on WHAT I do want to buy, and right now, I think what's on my list for that which I'm most interested in is the "pay" version of TSreader, and maybe videoredo ... although, I've found some nice freeware tools/utilities that let me do just about anything I want, so maybe I'll just "donate" to some of their authors instead ....

Update :

Would anyone recommend getting an amplified internal antenna ...

You seem to want to get a new antenna :) ... I can understand that, antennas are fun ;) ....

first, to be clear --- I'm with Jim, given what you've described so far it seems unlikely to me that a reception problem is causing your issues with WLWT-DT ... should be easy enough for you to find that out with some of the info (5-2 test, checking signal meter/etc) we've posted however ...

However .... I also wonder if you are receiving all the stations in the area with your current antenna? (see first post of this thread for a list of all the Cincinnati area stations) .... If not, a better antenna setup might help you pull some of those in ... And I also agree with jim about the "amplified" antenna bit ....

a directional(at least somewhat) outdoor antenna of conventional design is usually a very good choice(especially if you want to receive Dayton as well, you'd probably need a rotor for that too) but, For indoors, Silver sensor someone recommended earlier, or the venerable Radio Shack double bowtie would be good choices for UHF, and you might be close enough to pick up WCPO-DT (is on VHF) with those as well (note WKRC-DT will be moving to VHF 12 after analog shut off as well) ....

Rabbit ears are really the best "indoor type" VHF antenna out there, but, unless you can find a silver sensor with rabbit ears for VHF on it as well, might as well see if a silver sensor or DBT will pick up WCPO-DT "well enough" first .... It very well might as close as you are ... Note Terk did have one of these, called a HDTVa - It was(or is?) pretty much a Log periodic UHF antenna(which is what the silver sensor is)+VHF rabbit ears -- but I think it's amplified, although I recall at least one poster saying it's set up so you can turn off the amp+the antenna is still functional .....

What I might do if I wanted to try a little better indoor antenna, such as for other cincinnati area stations you may not be receiving, I might pick up a silver sensor or DBT first, then later on if necessary pick up a VHF/UHF combiner(such as CM0549) to combine it with rabbit ears for VHF if necessary ..... Of course, Keep the receipts so you can take stuff back if necessary or if it doesn't help vs. your current antenna .....

I don't really use/like MCE much either ... I haven't tried the software Jim mentioned, but I like WatchHDTV --- I use both the TS(captures entire transport stream) and "main" (DVR-MS files) versions of watchhdtv, including the players for the files .... I personally like the "spartan" nature of it, and that it's not very demanding on system resources(not just when using it's scheduler/etc. as DVR, even when watching live) and allows you to easily setup different decoders to use with it ... It's free as well ... See here :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10482037#post10482037

GB-DVR (I think that's what it's called, it's something like that) is another one which is more geared towards being a DVR vs. WatchHDTV which works nicely both to view Live HDTV and as a DVR ... but when I tried GB-DVR, I found it to use quite a bit more resources, and you're pretty much tied to setting up/using a zaptoit account/program guide with it .... Although, the way it imports zaptoit program guide info works very nicely, and I was surprised to see they seemed to have accurate program info for all the local stations multicast services ....

Oh BTW, It's not that I'm "opposed" to paying $ for software, I've done a LOT of that over the years, enough to last the rest of my lifetime as far as contributing to Microsoft+other companies bottom lines, actually -- It's just that there are so many great freeware tools available for HTPC use, It's great to be able to try a bunch of stuff to find what works best for you+for your pc and what you want to do without having to spend a bunch of money to find out ...

In fact, going the freeware/shareware method for HTPC stuff to start out with is in the long run probably going to help me make better choices on WHAT I do want to buy, and right now, I think what's on my list for that which I'm most interested in is the "pay" version of TSreader, and maybe videoredo ... although, I've found some nice freeware tools/utilities that let me do just about anything I want, so maybe I'll just "donate" to some of their authors instead ....


I do hate paying for software actually, so that should tell you how impressed I have been with BeyondTV. WatchHDTV is a nice, "slim and trim" program for watching HD and simple enough to do some basic things very well. I found ATI's bundled software to work just as well so I have not used it too much. As you say, there are a lot of good, free programs out there that can do a lot of neat things. Many of them do one thing only, but they do it quite well.

BeyondTV is the total package for me. There are some advanced "techy" things that it won't do, but that's why I have programs like TSReader. For DVR functionality, you can't beat BeyondTV. I have had my HDTV Wonder tuner card for 2.5 - 3 years now and I've tried just about every solution there is... Vista MCE, MythTV, GB-PVR... they're all somewhat decent but each has drawbacks. When I installed BeyondTV for the first time, first of all, everything just "worked." I then found some of its many useful features and amazing usability. For example, overnight it will automatically search for commercials in videos recorded that day and mark them making it easy for you to skip them with one press of the remote. It can also do "ShowSqueeze" which lets you compress to DivX HD format of your choosing (converting to DivX is not a big deal but the whole process is completely automated). You do sign up for an account with them for the TV listings, but they promise free listings for life, and they are quite good. The on screen display is great and the web interface comes in handy when you want to schedule a show to record from work. The whole thing has worked so well for me since last fall that I've set up a BeyondTV system for my parents. They picked it up in no time and are now enjoying it as well.

Anyway, sorry for the rave, but BeyondTV is really, really cool. And, there is a free trial. If you do purchase I highly recommend their firefly remote which I got for my parents, but it also works great with my ATI Remote Wonder. Watching recorded shows in full 1080i with no loss in quality on the big screen DLP is great! BeyondTV was designed to run your living room TV.

this probably is getting quite OT, but ....

WatchHDTV is a nice, "slim and trim" program for watching HD and simple enough to do some basic things very well.


Well, I wouldn't put it quite like that ..... It has everything I need+use for a HD DVR, or for watching HD/DTV "live". It certianly pretty much does everything the WinTV2000 Hauppage software that came with HVR1600(except for remote support and captures to MPG file, WatchHDTV uses DVR-MS or TS instead) and does it better, IMO. When I said I liked it's spartan nature, I didn't really mean lack of the core features needed for DVR or "live" HD/DTV viewing. I actually rarely use it to watch HD live(because I have a seperate ATSC receiver on the same HD display I use with the HTPC), Instead I usually use it as a HD/DTV DVR.

It will schedule recordings, capture a single program stream to DVR-MS or the entire transport stream to TS, and doesn't use much in the way of system resources. And if you unload it, it's really "unloaded", there are no services that run continuosly or don't terminate properly when they aren't needed.

True, there are some things you have to set up manually ---- such as a special scheduled task so it can resume PC from various power saving modes, and you setup your "channel list" manually, and you don't get a EPG with it, currently.

I use other tools for other things, such as those which also work very nicely for removing commericals automatically. Such as DVRmstoolbox I mentionend earlier which is very easy to set up for "automatic" stuff, I haven't used/tried this feature, but the info on it says it can be set up to even skip the commercials WHILE your watching TV, or for DivX/MPEG4 encoding, or WMV-HD encoding/etc/etc ..... Really, for the most part the only reason I have to do the latter two really is to reduce the file sizes for purposes such as archiving HD to DVD+R.


BeyondTV is the total package for me.


Which is great, and I can certianly appreciate why you+many would like that, or even MCE for that matter .... And, if I ever set up a HTPC for the "main" HDTV the family uses, I'd probably be using MCE or looking for something like that .....

It's Just not something I'm really looking for the way I use my current HTPC, which is also my personal PC which is used for many other things besides for HTPC as well .... I don't really watch, or use DVR that often either(just when I'm doing something else, or when I know I won't have time to watch that program when it's broadcast, or will be out/etc) with that much TV programming either, believe it or not, I'm just not much of a "TV watcher" ....


You do sign up for an account with them for the TV listings, but they promise free listings for life, and they are quite good.


You lost me there .... I'm on dialup(my local phone Co. does offer DSL, but it's way to expensive to be worth it for me at this point -- cable does not serve my rural location) +despise having to d/l EPG info via internet.

I want the software to fully support the program info sent OTA by broadcasters via PSIP EIT's, or nothing at all. Granted, that's only 12 hours of data and some broadcasters aren't really good about keeping the EIT's up+running and fully populated with detailed program info, but it's something that's there that I can utilize if hardware/software(such as TSreader does) supports it .. And I don't really care for software whose UI is very much based on or around the "program guide" info(such as GB-PVR+MCE to a certian extent), which is another reason why I like WatchHDTV(at least currently).

Currently, I have TW in Lebanon using a 8300 HD. I receive 5.1 DD on all HD channels except 12 - WKRC. Can anyone tell me if this is a common problem with TW, WKRC, or just TW in Lebanon? Sorry if this topic has been covered, I did a search through the post but didn't see or had trouble finding this.

channel 12 does not pass dd5.1 thru - so its not you!

There's been a discussion about the Mayfield Hts. Boneyard (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10562870&&#post10562870) in the Cleveland thread that has 5 huge HD projection screens. That made me wonder, what bar the best HD setup in Cincinnati?

I've been to Rock Bottom and they have several average sized flat panel screens around the bar area and had at least two HD sources to feed the screens (though they only were showing one game at the time). The B-dubs on Montgomery has nice huge projection screens, but they're all SD. Guidos Corner Tap had one flat panel screen and 3-4 rear projection screens, but I think they were all fed from SD sources.

So, can anyone tell me of a better place to go in the area?

bw3 in lebanon has 3 projectors that are in hd.. but they are not calibrated right so the picture is so so. The Old Saloon in kenwood has 3 plasmas that have hd. - an I belive someone said that the porch of all sorts at fields ertel has some hd plasmas.. but dont quote me on that.

jim

Antenna question. I am in Anderson Township and have a SquareShooter Antenna (both VHF and UHF). I started with the compass headings listed at antennaweb.org. I don't get 9-1 or 9-2 (extreme pixelation). I don't get any of WCVN (54-1, etc) nor do I get 64-1. The rest are very good.

Any suggestions?

I visited the Cheeseburger in Paradise on Rt. 32 near Eastgate Mall for the first time yesterday and they had 3 plasmas showing ESPNHD.

bw3 in lebanon has 3 projectors that are in hd.. but they are not calibrated right so the picture is so so. The Old Saloon in kenwood has 3 plasmas that have hd. - an I belive someone said that the porch of all sorts at fields ertel has some hd plasmas.. but dont quote me on that.

jim

Yea, porch of all sports has plasmas, but don't count on them being on the HD feed. Was disappointed during the ncaa tournament when not a single plasma was displaying the hd feed of the games.

The lack of an HD feed has been my experience at a number of places even when they have HDTVs. I guess the problem these establishments have is that there is often a combination of hdtvs and sdtvs. Since the delay is a bit more for the HDTVs (with a proper HDTV feed), this results in the audio and video being off among the multiple tvs -- so they go with the lowest common denominator, SDTV (and I, in turn, watch the games at home).

Antenna question. I am in Anderson Township and have a SquareShooter Antenna (both VHF and UHF). I started with the compass headings listed at antennaweb.org. I don't get 9-1 or 9-2 (extreme pixelation). I don't get any of WCVN (54-1, etc) nor do I get 64-1. The rest are very good.

Any suggestions?

I live in Anderson Township as well. I assume your antenna is pointed basically west (maybe a bit north of west). I have a powered antenna in my attic and get 9-1, 9-2, and 54-* fine. I have difficulty with 64-1, but I don't watch that channel.

I am not an expert on this, but I think WCPO the only major VHF channel in Cinci - perhaps there is something with the VHF setup??

Is WXIX-HD offline? I have been getting 0% signal since at least last Tuesday.

Is WXIX-HD offline? I have been getting 0% signal since at least last Tuesday.

Is WXIX HD located on?

Not sure what you are asking about, but I am having trouble receiving WXIX-HD over-the-air on channel 29 (remapped to channel 19).

channel 12 does not pass dd5.1 thru - so its not you!

Was this discussed earlier in this thread as to why they are not passing it thru?

Is WXIX-HD offline? I have been getting 0% signal since at least last Tuesday.

It's been fine here when I've checked or been watching since that time, including currently. Haven't had time to watch much TV though, so I don't know if they've had any off air periods ....


Was this discussed earlier in this thread as to why they are not passing it thru?


Yes, many times. It's because they don't have the equipment/setup to pass through DD 5.1 audio from CBS HD yet.

couple of things real quick :

WSTR-DT "faux DD 5.1" audio

Speaking of audio .... I think I'm going to update 1st post of thread to call the WSTR-DT audio "Faux DD 5.1" .... Sometime back in another thread, a engineer at a MYTV affiliate elsewhere said that MYTV doesn't send DD 5.1 audio ...

I'm thinking that perhaps seems likely, as I've watched a few of the recent HD movies on MYTV from WSTR-DT, and have noticed although WSTR-DT is sending a DD 5.1 audio stream, it's certianly not 5.1 "discrete" audio channels .... In fact, it sounds more like a weird "5 channel stereo" DSP option on my A/V receiver --- For instance, you pretty much get the dialogue just as much out of the surrounds as you do the center+front channels ... It just doesn't sound right and especially difficult for me to listen to and enjoy the movie audio tracks that way, and personally, I'd rather them send DD 2.0 if that's what MYTV is sending them ....

WLWT-DT Glitches during 5/17 "ER"

Noticed Thursday night during HD ER on WLWT-DT I was getting occasional "skipping" of video, or "dropped frames" in places using Zenith HDV420 decoder, I didn't get a chance to check other receivers ---- And yes, the RF signal was fine, as usual much more/better signal than I need ....

It was almost, but not quite like a pulldown issue, as it for example wasn't anywhere near as regular as what I experienced at one time regarding "dropped frames" with this decoder from another station(they were doing 720p) during programming sourced from film when, as it turned out they had a repeat field detection turned on on their encoder which as it turned out the Zenith box here didn't handle properly ...

I checked WDTN-DT (NBC HD Dayton), and it wasn't happening there ... I've watched a bit of stuff from WLWT-DT since Thursday+haven't seen the problem again ..... It is the only time I can recall ever seeing anything like that from them, including during shows such as ER. So, I'm hoping it was a temporary glitch and something everyone(including hopefully the techs at WLWT-DT) was getting, and not one of those "decoder/receiver model specific" sort of things .... Well, I can hope anyway ;)

WLWT-DT Glitches during 5/17 "ER"

Noticed Thursday night during HD ER on WLWT-DT I was getting occasional "skipping" of video, or "dropped frames" in places using Zenith HDV420 decoder, I didn't get a chance to check other receivers ---- And yes, the RF signal was fine, as usual much more/better signal than I need ....


I noticed something like this during The Office and Scrubs that night as well (didn't watch/record ER). I had recorded both with HD DVR and had assumed it was my antenna being aimed off a bit (I had had it pointed at Louisville and forgot hit the button to have it rotate back to Cincinnati), although in general I can aim the antenna any direction I want and still pull in the Cincinnati stations with not dropouts.

If what I was seeing was the same as you describe, it was every once in a while a seeminly random frame would drop. Not unwatchable by any means but mildly annoying. Since I wasn't watching live I was not able to switch to WDTN to compare.

If what I was seeing was the same as you describe, it was every once in a while a seeminly random frame would drop.


Yep. Thanks for report, glad it wasn't just me getting it ...

Yep. Thanks for report, glad it wasn't just me getting it ...

I noticed this too. Thought it may have benn D*, but only on WLWT. Funny, audio never seemed to miss a beat though.

Antenna question. I am in Anderson Township and have a SquareShooter Antenna (both VHF and UHF). I started with the compass headings listed at antennaweb.org. I don't get 9-1 or 9-2 (extreme pixelation). I don't get any of WCVN (54-1, etc) nor do I get 64-1. The rest are very good.

Any suggestions?
Only a simple-but-expensive one. I'm in Sherwood Forest in Anderson and get fine reception with a CM4228 and rotator. Are you sure the SquareShooter is rated for VHF? Channel "9" is going to remain on Ch. 10 actual and after 2/2009 Channel"12" is going to return to actual Ch. 12.

CM4228 is UHF only antenna, it is in no shape or form "rated" for VHF. If you're going to try to use a UHF only antenna for hi-VHF reception however, CM4228 would be the best choice I'm aware of, especially concerning it's gain on Channel 10(not so much other hi-VHF channels however) .....

As, CM4228 does happen to offer quite a bit of gain on Hi-VHF in places, albeit very "unevenly". The graph at link farther below for instance shows CM4228 having approx 8dbd gain around the middle of channel 10 (about 3x more gain than a Horizontally polarized 1/2 wave dipole -- i.e. horizontally polarized+"tuned" rabbit ears, more or less), which drops to -9dbd (about 3x+ worse than pair of rabbit ears) about in middle of channel 7 + channel 8, and about -6dbd on the "low end" of channel 12/high end of channel 11 ....(about 2x worse than pair of rabbit ears ) ....

The Squareshooter is reported as offering dismal performance on VHF at below link, they even make a point to note this in the text regarding comparing various UHF Only antenna's performance on VHF. The graph shows squareshooter as offering approx -20dbd (about 7x worse than a pair of rabbit ears) on High VHF .... Another way to look at that is, a station that was just barely sending enough power to be received on a pair of rabbit ears(let's pretend that's 100 Watts ERP) would need to increase power by a factor of about 7 in order to be received via the squareshooter - In this hypothetical case, the Hi-VHF channel 7~13 station would need to increase power from 100 watts to about 12,800 Watts ERP ....

Here's the link with info described above :

Comparing some commercially available antennas (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html) - See the info and graph near bottom of page in section labeled "Using a UHF antenna for VHF".

Also, keep in mind signal gain of antenna on various frequencies of interest is NOT the only important performance characteristic of the antenna, there's also the directional pattern of antenna to consider, and whether or not any added amplification(some versions of squareshooter come in "amplified" versions for instance), which in strong signal areas can cause problems with overload. When "overload" is a problem, for instance, typically the strongest signals can still be received, but you may have a difficult time receiving weaker signals, or, added 'interference' from intermodulation products(from the "overloaded stuff - preamp or tuner)can "show up" as additional noise on some channels, but perhaps not others ...

Independant of that(mostly), reception wise, various sorts of electrical+RF interference, some of which can be created by various household appliances can be more of a problem for indoor antennas on VHF than UHF, including with antenna in the attic, and also, these sorts of things can be exacberated further by using "amplified" antenna.

Here is Link to winegard's spec sheet on the squareshooter antennas, including polar plots that should show a good indication of the directivity of the antenna on various channels/frequencies -- note #1). how much different the polar plots look for VHF vs. UHF, and #2). also note that they do not provide a real "gain" figure for hi-VHF channels, only for UHF (470-806MHZ at 4.5db gain - dunno if that's in dbd or dbi)-- No wonder, given what is shown/estimated for it for hi-VHF gain for it at the other link I provided, above - update/addition - concerning the gain figures for the SS-2000's amp, keep in mind, NO amp can increase the amount of gain AT the antenna .... :

http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/WC-811.pdf

Update:

You might also want to see the detailed info on these antennas here :

Squareshooter (VHF note: Says it works as "vertically polarized" on VHF/H-polarized on UHF, so you might be able to "tilt" the antenna 90 degrees(on its side) and acheive a bit better results on VHF - obviously, that orientation will cause it to be vertically polarized on UHF however, which probably won't be a good idea) ....

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/SquareShooter.html

CM4228 (VHF - this includes more detailed info on it's VHF performance+pattern as well) :

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html

Tonights Jeopardy on TW 909 WCPO says it is in HD but isn't. Oops, 5 minutes in it just changed to HD. Wierd!

Tonights Jeopardy on TW 909 WCPO says it is in HD but isn't. Oops, 5 minutes in it just changed to HD. Wierd!

Yeah, seen that before. I think the affiliates have some sort of "A/B switch" to switch between the network SD and HD feed and they sometimes forget to switch. I often see this when the affiliate needs to show some local content (commercials, weather, etc.) Anyone know more about this??

This wouldn't be the same as a normal network HD switch problem since this was syndicated programming. Though, this was probably a somewhat manual process as "switch flipping" used to be and so my guess is the engineer may have started the HD playback or missed switching over to their HD playback a little later than they should have.

For those that haven't seen these, there is some interesting info on WCPO in these articles :

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/wcpo-station-streamline/

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/wpco-nvision-routers-20041108/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guess at this point I'm wondering who will be first with Local HD news in Cincinnati ... While I'm not really surprised we haven't seen it quite yet --- I am a bit surprised at how quickly several markets, even smaller ones around us have put local HD (or SD widescreen in WHIO-DT's Dayton's case) news on the air ....

I have seen WHIO-DT news in HD and it looks good...Lexington KY has both CBS & NBC affiliates doing local news in HD. Cincinnati is playing catch up with smaller markets I guess. Its 2007 and those articles are almost 3 yrs old.

I haven't seen what someone called SD wide screen. Sounds interesting and would be my choice short of true HD. I am tired of either stretching or zooming both of which have their problems.

Some channels like Sci-Fi have movies that are cropped top and bottom and can be zoomed with no loss in picture area.

Does anyone know if TW Cincinnati is carrying any program on any channel in SD Wide screen? I would be interested what it looks like.

Does anyone know if TW Cincinnati is carrying any program on any channel in SD Wide screen? I would be interested what it looks like.

Well, you can watch So You Think You Can Dance on Fox. That's SD widescreen like WHIO-DT's newscasts.

Well, you can watch So You Think You Can Dance on Fox. That's SD widescreen like WHIO-DT's newscasts.
Thanks. I'll give it a try Wednesday night. Do I understand correctly that it is a 16:9 aspect transmission in SD? How would it appear on na regular 4:3 TV? BAck bars at top and bottom??

It is a 16:9 SD program upconverted to 720p. It is cropped for analog transmission.

Unless something has changed recently, Fox News Sunday is another one that's SD widescreen, think it airs Sunday mornings at 10am on WXIX-DT, WRGT-DT Dayton uses(or did last I checked it) the 9am feed from Fox. "Cops" was SD widescreen when they first went 16x9 as well, not sure about presently, if that show is still on(you can see how out of touch I am+how often I watch TV sometimes). Most, if not all regular season baseball games I've seen on Fox have been SD widescreen as well, some of the time composite video artifacts were also present ... in the past, when Fox has had 6 NFL games on a Sunday, one of them have been SD widescreen ...

Also, many of the programs that air on PBS HD channel are SD widescreen, upconverted to 1080i at network level. You'll see many of these on CET-HD or WPTD-DT/think16HD, as well as occasionally some of the PBS HD/SD widescreen programs time shifted from WPTO-DT's(think14HD) server ... The vast vast majority of the PBS HD programs aired on WCVN-DT (KET4, which transcodes PBS HD to 720p for broadcast) are HD, in fact it's been a long time since I've seen them air anything that was widescreen SD ... they do tell you if it is HD or SD widescreen, however at their KET4 "HD mode" schedule listing here : http://www.ket.org/dtv/programs.htm

If I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure CET-HD and KET digital/HD is carried on TW Cincinnati, not sure about the ThinkTV digital stations(WPTO-DT/WPTD-DT) .....

Also, I've actually even occasionally seen so called "anamorphic" SD widescreen(or 16x9 NTSC video, depending upon the terminology you like) videos on WXIX-DT's "the tube", and even SD widescreen on WBQC-CA ANALOG as well as TBN(analog or digital) or WOTH-LP ... I've also seen it happen on a couple of E*'s SD public interest channels .... Last night, in fact, at least when I noticed it, WBQC-CA was airing this sort of "anamorphic" widescreen for the movie they aired ... LOL ...

Of course those were being sent some might say "incorrectly within" a 4x3 SD(480i 4x3 digital format or NTSC analog) broadcast format rather than "correctly" letterboxed. Although, of course that is exactly how a "anamorphic DVD" or the 480i/p 16x9 ATSC table 3 formats "work", and in those cases it is "proper" ... anyway, when it happens(which is pretty rare) within a 4x3 broadcast format, it's easy enough to "stretch it out" to proper proportions with a 16x9 display's "full" mode ... That's not possible to do on say, a 4x3 "old fashioned" analog TV however ....

....what's the deal? A little rain, and they go SD???? :eek:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guess at this point I'm wondering who will be first with Local HD news in Cincinnati ... While I'm not really surprised we haven't seen it quite yet --- I am a bit surprised at how quickly several markets, even smaller ones around us have put local HD (or SD widescreen in WHIO-DT's Dayton's case) news on the air ....

Related note...

I participated in a extended phone survey about local news, news anchors, etc. which was obviously commissioned by WCPO. One great question in teh survey-- "how interested would you be in local news in HD?" Of course I said "extremely interested". So clearly WCPO is testing the waters to see when to make the investment.

Related note...

I participated in a extended phone survey about local news, news anchors, etc. which was obviously commissioned by WCPO. One great question in teh survey-- "how interested would you be in local news in HD?" Of course I said "extremely interested". So clearly WCPO is testing the waters to see when to make the investment.
If not in HD, I would at least like them to transmit in 16:9. It would make a better picture in the newer 16:9 sets. Otherwise I have one of three options-none that great.
1. Watch in 4:3 with the side bars.
2. Zoom and loose top and bottom of picture
3. Stretch and get fat short people.

One great question in teh survey-- "how interested would you be in local news in HD?" Of course I said "extremely interested".

Cool! I hope lots of people answered that question the same way .....

I was called for a "what radio stations do you listen to" phone survey several days back, BTW .... Normally, I don't care for unsolicted phone calls(such as from telemarketers), but I did not mind that one at all ...

Antenna question. I am in Anderson Township and have a SquareShooter Antenna (both VHF and UHF). I started with the compass headings listed at antennaweb.org. I don't get 9-1 or 9-2 (extreme pixelation). I don't get any of WCVN (54-1, etc) nor do I get 64-1. The rest are very good.

Any suggestions?

Well, I found out that if you diplex OTA and a sat signal the diplexers you use make a difference. I was using the Phillips diplexers. After some additional reading, I put Channel Masters 4002IFD as the combining diplixer and CM 4001IFD as the splitting diplexer. All of a sudden I was getting all of the stations I expected and have no problems with 9-1 or 9-2.

I was called for a "what radio stations do you listen to" phone survey several days back

Normally, I don't care for unsolicted phone calls(such as from telemarketers), but I did not mind that one at all ...

I feel the same way about telemarketers but when I got the call about the radio station survey, I took it. Even though there wasn't a choice for "Cincinnati radio sucks" I did try to get my point across that Cincinnati radio (except for the Reds games on WLW) is something that I just don't listen to (we have satellite radio and CDs in the cars and at home).

By the way, the survey is being paid for by Clear Channel, at least it was last year. One of my neighbors (who works for the local school system during the regular school year) was hired by a temp company to do the survey last summer.

All of a sudden I was getting all of the stations I expected and have no problems with 9-1 or 9-2.

Good news! Thanks for updating us+glad you were able to get it straightened out, it sounds like fairly easily ....


Well, I found out that if you diplex OTA and a sat signal the diplexers you use make a difference.


Yep ... I wish you had mentioned that you were diplexing+the details of it earlier, as we would probably have been able to spot that you might have had a problem issue there ...

Also, for several reasons it can sometimes be a good idea to NOT diplex and run a seperate coax feed to the antenna, instead, and in some cases it's absolutely necessary you use a seperate coax run to antenna for OTA.

This is probably all stuff you already forund out, and doesn't seem to likely be applicable to your situation ...(such as would likely be the case if your squareshooter was amplfied version of it) .... but in case it is useful to others .... One reason why the diplexor used can be the problem concerns if you are using an "amplified" antenna .. Normally, with amplified antenna(or mast mount preamp), you have a power inserter which you put indoors(so it can be plugged in) and the power inserter supplies power to the amp in the antenna(or the mast mount preamp) via the coax.

For one thing, some amplifiers require different voltage than the power that is supplied via coax from sat receiver, usually for the LNB. Some amps even require A/C power(low voltage) vs. DC ,or use different polarity.

For another, even when the sat receiver can "power" the antenna amp(and there are cases when that can work - CM 0065B is one preamp that is designed for this), the combining diplexor must PASS that power from the sat receiver to the antenna via the VHF/UHF port on the diplexor(s), as well as to the LNB. Looking at the specs(I have the CM OTA+sat distribution catalogs), I do notice that the CM4002IFD you mentioned which now "works" for you does NOT pass DC voltage to VHF/UHF antenna port, only to the LNB. The CM 4012IFD does pass it through to the amplifier/amplified antenna+LNB.

In most cases, with an "amplifed antenna"(and all cases I'm aware of concerning seperate mast mount preamp) the amplifier circuitry MUST be powered, otherwise with it "off" the circuitry in the amp will "block" and GREATLY attenuate the signals coming from the antenna ... MUCH more so than if the antenna wasn't amplifed at all .... that is why, even if you have a "seperate" coax run for the antenna, there can't be anything in line between the preamp's power supply(power inserter) and the Amplifier that will block the power being supplied via the coax ...

Can anybody who's had both TWC and D* service compare our local stations in HD? I currently have TWC and don't like the channels available or the service in general, but have seen the national HD channels on D* (ESPN, etc.) and they don't look nearly as good as TWC here. I'm wondering how the new MPEG4 channels will compare. The only place I have seen D* in HD has been Best Buy, etc., and I never seem to go when there is something in HD on the locals to see the MPEG4 broadcasts. If it sounds like the locals are comparable to TWC and the new national channels will be also, I will jump ship. Even if D* only comes up with half the channels they say they will this year, and even if they don't look as good as TWC, I'd rather have twice the HD channels as TWC (provided quality is at least somewhat comparable) than be stuck with TWC who doesn't seem to even want to acknowledge the demand for additional HD channels...

I've been happy with D* Mpeg4 locals. I can get OTA as well, the difference is difficult to see (at least for me). National HD are not that good, hopefully that will change with the new sats. later this year.

You might wait until fall to see what really is available, D* is supposed to launch VOD in July for the HR20 reciever. No idea how all this will effect rates.

I've been happy with D* Mpeg4 locals. I can get OTA as well, the difference is difficult to see (at least for me). National HD are not that good, hopefully that will change with the new sats. later this year.

You might wait until fall to see what really is available, D* is supposed to launch VOD in July for the HR20 reciever. No idea how all this will effect rates.

Thanks for the response. What size TV are you viewing it on? I've been very unimpressed with D* national HD channels on the 50" Sony 1080p in the Best Buy in Springdale, but might be able to live with that if the locals are good and the nationals follow suit when switched to MPEG4. I have been thinking of waiting for the big changes from D* before I make the move, but recently, I've been thinking of just doing it now. I like the idea of the channel guide on all TVs and digital picture on my SDTVs (I only have 1 cable box) as well as a number of channels TWC doesn't offer (Versus being the most important). I'm also concerned about the rates changing when D* makes all the changes and am thinking I might be better off getting in now and locking in the rate for awhile.

I am using the powered version of the squareshooter and the power is upstream of any splits or diplexes. That was not the problem. The diplexer i was using was taking out too much gain.

These Reds broadcasts in SD are abysmal. I almost want to watch the Mets/Giants game on ESPN HD instead because it looks so much better. For some reason, the Reds broadcast looks extra terrible tonight from Houston. I must be getting spoiled. Wish they'd hurry up and get these going in HD.

You're right. The Reds game does look even worse than normal (at least on TWC) tonight. Since I'm not a Reds fan, I'm watching the game on ESPN HD. I'm a sucker for pretty much any two teams playing on ESPN HD...

I am using the powered version of the squareshooter and the power is upstream of any splits or diplexes.


That certianly works.

However I don't think the power supply before diplexing is an option for folks in many cases. Such as when the combining diplexer and an antenna such as the squareshooter would be mounted(outdoors with a short run from diplexor to OTA antenna+sat equipment(LNB/etc) near the sat dish, which in many cases is probably not going to be a waterproof area suitable(I wouldn't think anyway) for placement of a power supply, or even an area where a A/C outlet is available.

Also, Note that according to the Ss-1000/2000 manual available for download at winegard site (pdf format here: http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/2452031SS.pdf ) , on page 6 it says :

quote from squareshooter manual :

NOTE: A diplexer that is power
passive on both sides may be
used instead of the power supply.
If using diplexer, connect coax to
diplexer secured on back of antenna
with velcro (supplied).

:end quote

--------------------------------------

So, looks like if you ever need to, guess that means it should work with power supplied via the coax through diplexors from a sat receiver, you'd just need to get a CM4012IFD to replace the CM4002IFD. I can't currently find any specs on the amp regarding required input voltage/etc. to confirm that, but it seems logical they would want to design it that way for a antenna such as sqaureshooter.


The diplexer i was using was taking out too much gain.

I wonder What the loss on VHF/UHF for the phillips diplexors were? If accurate, specs from CM I have show for VHF/UHF port .5db thru loss for 4001IFD and .8db thru loss for 4002IFD. AFAIK, that's quite low loss for a set of diplexors(less than 1/2 the loss of a 2 way splitter or about the same loss in only about 30FT of RG6 on UHF) ....

Note the SS-2000 amp is rated at 12db gain according to specs at winegard site .......

Also, this should probably be unrelated since you were having problem on VHF as well, but There is info in the CM sat distribution accessories catalog I have that says some diplexors(including their CM4001IFD - which should work just fine as seperating diplexor, but specs show only 10db stop attenuation at 806MHZ) don't offer enough performance (stopband rejection) regarding adding noise from the LNB to UHF reception to use them for a combining diplexor, but the CM4002IFD you're for your combining diplexor using does(50db stop attenuation at 806MHZ) ...

Anyway, I'm glad you're getting all the stations you want now, that's what's important, as long as it proves to be reliable+dropout free of course ...

NuBe here...I have a Sony KDS-50A200 TV that we got for Christmas 07. We have regular non digital (no box) TWC. I was always able to get the digital/HD signal for all the local channels, 5, 9, 12, 19 all PBS and even TNT-HD & Discovery HD, but it all disappeared last Friday (5/25). I can still get the digital/HD with my rabbit ears, so I know the tuner is working. I rescanned for digital stations and found none. Does anyone know what might have happened? I had heard that TWC was required to carry the non-encrypted signals for local stations?! Thanks...

TWC isn't required to offer digital locals without encryption if they're offering the analog channels unscrambled, but they do leave them unencrypted.

It seems unlikely that your tuner didn't find any digital channels, but I suppose your tuner might work differently than mine. You're saying that you do not see any channels with -x or .x (example 107-21) in the higher numbers like 80+? If you do get those channels, have you tried flipping through those channels to see what you can find?

There is differing opinion regarding requirements of cablecos to offer digital broadcast signals they carry as unencrypted, and available to all subscribers.

What is clear I believe is that cableco's have to carry the digital signals they carry(including HD) at the resolution provided by "the station", no matter how the customer "recieves" them(unencrypted with a user supplied QAM tuner/etc).

The way I read it, FCC seemed to make their posistion clear in a recent NPRM(from early may, it's available on FCC site) regarding cable carriage of digital broadcast signals that are carried via Must-carry rules. Several times in that NPRM, it stressed that digital signals carried via *must-carry* requirements must be provided, unencrypted, to all subscribers on the cable system(they are not however required to provide the equipment necessary to receive them). It did not specifically mention signals carried via retransmission consent, that is a matter that might need more "clarification" from them(although at this point I sort of doubt whether they are going to provide any such clarification).

Of course, at this point and time, digital stations carried on cable generally don't use "must-carry" rights(and thus use retransmission consent for cable carriage), as those electing for must-carry can't have it for BOTH their analog+digital signals -- Only one of them. When analog shuts off, obviously that will change.

Previously, an earlier FCC R&O from 2001 regarding cable carriage of digital broadcast signals seemed clear to ME to state FCC's posistion that cableco's are required to provide *all* digital broadcast signals(whether carried via must carry or retransmission consent agreements) which they *carry* to all subscribers on their system, even to those on the most basic tier of service(lifeline/etc), just as is the case with analog(hence they didn't modify the rules on this already in place regarding analog.) HOWEVER, again the wording in the most recent NPRM I mentioned above does not specifically say this(it doesn't really address, or mention the issue at all unlike the previous R&O which indicated(again the way [I] read it) ALL digital broadcast signals carried by the cableco must be provided to all cable customers, including those on the lowest cost, most basic tier of service.

Also, However+again others have differing interpetations and opinions on that matter. Some feel that FCC was not clear enough in differeniating between digital signals carried via must carry, and digital signals carried via retransmission consent, and some felt the FCC should have specifically modified the rules on this in the Code of federal regulations to specify exactly what is required in this matter.

Bottom line is, some cableco's provide unencrypted versions of the HD locals they carry, some don't. All the info+reports we've seen so far indicate that TW in our area does provide them in the clear to all subscribers(again, they don't have to provide the equipment necesary to receive/decode it). That of course could change ....

Thanks for the response. What size TV are you viewing it on? I've been very unimpressed with D* national HD channels on the 50" Sony 1080p in the Best Buy in Springdale, but might be able to live with that if the locals are good and the nationals follow suit when switched to MPEG4. I have been thinking of waiting for the big changes from D* before I make the move, but recently, I've been thinking of just doing it now. I like the idea of the channel guide on all TVs and digital picture on my SDTVs (I only have 1 cable box) as well as a number of channels TWC doesn't offer (Versus being the most important). I'm also concerned about the rates changing when D* makes all the changes and am thinking I might be better off getting in now and locking in the rate for awhile.
I have a 1080p 46" Auquos. HD locals are great. SD actually better than I thought it would be. Versus actually televised a bit of Hockey this year on channel 95 (HD). It looked pretty good. TNT is the worst HD. The HR20 can hold up to about 50 hrs of Mpeg4, 30 hrs of Mpeg2, YMMV. I end up with a lot of the wifes soaps on it. The system is expandable using eSATA drives also. I plan on upgrading mine this fall.

bill - are you using the new white gui that was part of the last cutting edge download?

I have a 1080p 46" Auquos. HD locals are great. SD actually better than I thought it would be. Versus actually televised a bit of Hockey this year on channel 95 (HD). It looked pretty good. TNT is the worst HD. The HR20 can hold up to about 50 hrs of Mpeg4, 30 hrs of Mpeg2, YMMV. I end up with a lot of the wifes soaps on it. The system is expandable using eSATA drives also. I plan on upgrading mine this fall.

Thanks for the info. Based on your setup, I think I’d be happy with my 720p projector for the locals anyway. Really the only thing I watch in HD regularly aside from the locals is ESPN (and only that during baseball season and MNF). Based on what I’ve seen, ESPN looks pretty lousy compared to TWC, but with all the other benefits I’d get from D*, it seems worth it even just for the short term. Long term, even if the new MPEG4 channels don’t look as good as you say the locals do now, I guess I’d rather have more HD channels that look decent than hardly any that look great. My only possible reason for holding off is the startup costs. I’m looking at $200 for the HD-DVR, and since additional DVR service is free under the $5.99 fee, I may as well get an SD-DVR for my living room. I’m guessing this won’t change over the next few months, though (whenever they get all the new HD channels up, I’d expect they will do just fine with gaining new customers and won’t need to offer any promotions for free or further discounted equipment) so it doesn’t seem like I have any reasons left to not take the plunge.

Thanks for the info. Based on your setup, I think I’d be happy with my 720p projector for the locals anyway. Really the only thing I watch in HD regularly aside from the locals is ESPN (and only that during baseball season and MNF). Based on what I’ve seen, ESPN looks pretty lousy compared to TWC, but with all the other benefits I’d get from D*, it seems worth it even just for the short term. Long term, even if the new MPEG4 channels don’t look as good as you say the locals do now, I guess I’d rather have more HD channels that look decent than hardly any that look great. My only possible reason for holding off is the startup costs. I’m looking at $200 for the HD-DVR, and since additional DVR service is free under the $5.99 fee, I may as well get an SD-DVR for my living room. I’m guessing this won’t change over the next few months, though (whenever they get all the new HD channels up, I’d expect they will do just fine with gaining new customers and won’t need to offer any promotions for free or further discounted equipment) so it doesn’t seem like I have any reasons left to not take the plunge.

Just curious, why DirectTV over Dish Network? From what I can tell, Dish has a better offering and the DVR upgrade fee for me was only 50 bucks after rebates. Plug an antenna into the back of your DVR and you have all your locals + dayton locals as well as the guide telling you what's on the digital locals.

Just curious, why DirectTV over Dish Network? From what I can tell, Dish has a better offering and the DVR upgrade fee for me was only 50 bucks after rebates. Plug an antenna into the back of your DVR and you have all your locals + dayton locals as well as the guide telling you what's on the digital locals.

Well, I've never had either service, but have always heard better things about DirecTV. Also, the new HD channels supposedly coming from DirecTV later this year are a huge draw for me.

for me it was sunday ticket - browns fan - and dish was a brand new startup company in late 1995 when I got my first directv system

Just curious, why DirectTV over Dish Network? From what I can tell, Dish has a better offering and the DVR upgrade fee for me was only 50 bucks after rebates. Plug an antenna into the back of your DVR and you have all your locals + dayton locals as well as the guide telling you what's on the digital locals.

Well, I've never had either service, but have always heard better things about DirecTV. Also, the new HD channels supposedly coming from DirecTV later this year are a huge draw for me.


I've seen their adds about the up to 150 HD channels coming soon... but cant find anything on it.
Just searched on their website without any luck.

Hope it's not all the locals that they broadcast in HD that they are counting to get the 150 number. lol
That would be hilarious!

Dunno.., I am kind of happy with my 30+ Dish HD channels right now., but if directTv offers something that I'd want... ..

I've seen their adds about the up to 150 HD channels coming soon... but cant find anything on it.
Just searched on their website without any luck.

Here's the latest from D*:Press Release (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1006125&highlight=)

Thanks to all for posting about D*. I think I'm going to make the switch from Time Warner (last 5 years) back to D*.

Thanks to all for posting about D*. I think I'm going to make the switch from Time Warner (last 5 years) back to D*.

FYI, if you weren't aware, Cincinnati Bell offers $6 off D* if you sign up through them. I'm not sure if you can get the current $100 off over 10 months on top of the $100 off over 12 months with that deal, though. I need to call and find out as I plan to make the switch here in the next few days.

bill - are you using the new white gui that was part of the last cutting edge download?

I've got the new "white" GUI x164. It looks good. I'm anxious for VOD! (and networked for it)

I don't buy the D* claim for a second. So they've got 34 channels listed there in addition to what they currently offer, and they're either agreed upon or agreed upon in principle which means nothing. I think it stinks of deceptive marketing. And I would not be surprised if the 150 includes locals across the country.

Well, it seems unlikely they'll count locals since D* offers HD locals in 59 markets and if you average 3 per city you get 177 channels. Their claim is for 100 National HD channels which will most likely include RSNs. Including RSNs can bring them (by my count) to around 60 channels not including PPV channels (yeah they'll probably count those too) or any deals they're currently working on.

Here is a projected list of channels: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=88246

Well, it seems unlikely they'll count locals since D* offers HD locals in 59 markets and if you average 3 per city you get 177 channels. Their claim is for 100 National HD channels which will most likely include RSNs. Including RSNs can bring them (by my count) to around 60 channels not including PPV channels (yeah they'll probably count those too) or any deals they're currently working on.

Here is a projected list of channels: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=88246

Thanks. Still sounds like a scam to me. It's really the "up to x" channels claim. Doesn't mean you're going to get them all with a reasonably priced plan, and if they including RSNs then that's deceptive as well. Although, I'd sure love to have FSN Ohio in HD. Hopefully their claims just lead cable and E* to pursue more channels as well. Competition should work well for that.

If you read their latest quarterly update.. as of now.. it looks like the hd channels will be included in the already high hd fee we pay.. but I am sure that will change!!

From Broadcast newsroom -- Of course, WCPO-DT is included for this deal :

Scripps Speeds Conversion To HD News with Adoption of JVC ProHD -
JVC to Provide all 10 Scripps Stations with ProHD Cameras, Recorders and Monitors (http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=147267)

From Broadcast newsroom -- Of course, WCPO-DT is included for this deal :

Scripps Speeds Conversion To HD News with Adoption of JVC ProHD -
JVC to Provide all 10 Scripps Stations with ProHD Cameras, Recorders and Monitors (http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=147267)


In case anyone was wondering, WLWT uses Sony's XDCAM system, along with the other Hearst-Argyle stations. This article (http://xdcam.com.au/modules/news/article.php?storyid=204) is a year old but it says that several of the Hearst-Argyle stations went with HD versions of the cameras, but WLWT was in the group that went with SD cameras at the time. The move to the XDCAM system was supposed to facilitate the move to HD. I'm not sure what WLWT's status is as of now and if they've upgraded to any HD cameras.

I also have no idea what WKRC uses (anybody know?), and I don't think I want to know what WXIX uses.

From Broadcast newsroom -- Of course, WCPO-DT is included for this deal :

Scripps Speeds Conversion To HD News with Adoption of JVC ProHD -
JVC to Provide all 10 Scripps Stations with ProHD Cameras, Recorders and Monitors (http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=147267)

Well that plus the question on the survey about HD news makes it look like WCPO is getting close to HD news.

In this competitive news market, it seems like something like HD could marginally help in the ratings war.

Well that plus the question on the survey about HD news makes it look like WCPO is getting close to HD news.

In this competitive news market, it seems like something like HD could marginally help in the ratings war.


Depends on the anchor

Depends on the anchor

alright, which anchor would you most like to see in HD? :cool:

alright, which anchor would you most like to see in HD? :cool:


No question here...Sasha Rionda from Ch 12's Spanish language news...I don't understand a word she says but I watch anyway :p

So funny thing here. My office purchased a 50" Samsung Plasma for our conference room. We currently have it sitting here running for testing and needed an antenna to pickup some OTA channels. So I grabbed my trusty paper clip and jammed it into the antenna input. We are picking up the HD channels of 5, 12, 19. Pretty funny I thought and had to share. Of course we get pixelation from time to time, but other than that, it works pretty decent for the time being.

No question here...Sasha Rionda from Ch 12's Spanish language news...I don't understand a word she says but I watch anyway :p

HD News doesn't excite me at all. I guess it's a step towards everything being in HD, but really, what's the point?

HD News doesn't excite me at all. I guess it's a step towards everything being in HD, but really, what's the point?The point is pretty much the same thing that makes broadcasters buy things like Super Doppler Viper 7000.. keeping up with the Joneses. You don't want to be the lone broadcaster doing your news in film when everyone else is using video. Same goes for HD. As the number of HD sets rises, all other things being equal, users will naturally land on the newscast that looks better. It doesn't affect ratings now. But it will. And it's easier to play along than to try to play catch-up.

The point is pretty much the same thing that makes broadcasters buy things like Super Doppler Viper 7000.. keeping up with the Joneses. You don't want to be the lone broadcaster doing your news in film when everyone else is using video. Same goes for HD. As the number of HD sets rises, all other things being equal, users will naturally land on the newscast that looks better. It doesn't affect ratings now. But it will. And it's easier to play along than to try to play catch-up.


It's like in the 50's early 60's when stations were moving from B&W to color. Although there were some stations who did not upgrade to color until the early 70's WKEF ch 22, was B&W up until 1974.

HD News doesn't excite me at all. I guess it's a step towards everything being in HD, but really, what's the point?

I'd rather have the bearcats broadcast in HD again on WXIX. Never did understand why WXIX stopped the HD broadcasts -- it would be nice to have it back.

I'd rather have the bearcats broadcast in HD again on WXIX. Never did understand why WXIX stopped the HD broadcasts -- it would be nice to have it back.

I think its already been discussed earlier...
but to sum it up.

Crappy team = lack of advertisement = costs of broadcasting is higher than profit.
As we know most businesses are in business to make $, not loose it.

I think its already been discussed earlier...
but to sum it up.

Crappy team = lack of advertisement = costs of broadcasting is higher than profit.
As we know most businesses are in business to make $, not loose it.


And, being owned by Raycom is another reason.. They aren't much better than Sinclair when it comes to spending money on programming.

My understanding is that UC basketball games were in HD only as a test because the company that produced the games had a new production truck and wanted to learn their new equipment. They gave WXIX that truck for a number of games at no extra cost, but come the next season the truck was an extra cost.

My understanding is that UC basketball games were in HD only as a test because the company that produced the games had a new production truck and wanted to learn their new equipment. They gave WXIX that truck for a number of games at no extra cost, but come the next season the truck was an extra cost.

Wonder how long it's gonna be until all the Reds games are in HD. Watching this 4:3 crap sucks. And you don't want to see Weathers, Coffey and Stanton in stretch mode.

At this point I don't want to see them in 4:3 or 16:9. I'm also not sure I'd enjoy the glorious HD 8th innings...

I think its already been discussed earlier...
but to sum it up.

Crappy team = lack of advertisement = costs of broadcasting is higher than profit.
As we know most businesses are in business to make $, not loose it.

True, you can boil everything down to money. As a sports fan, however, I'd rather see local sports rather than the news in HD. With WHIO in Dayton broadcasting the news in 16x9, there is talk the Flyers could also be in 16x9 this season. As a college basketball fan, I just thought UC might want to keep up.

I must be getting really old but to me news content is more important than how the anchors look.

Having said that I do think that HD does add a lot to a news programs IF it is done correctly (more video in HD, way less anchor shots). On DISH Network we do have a HD News channel (it is called HDNEWS, a Voom channel). While they don't have a lot of news (they repeat things several times per half hour) the stuff that they do show (news, weather, sports, business) does look very good in HD. They have something they call "video essay" and they show HD clips of anything from a neigboorhood party to a space launch. They alone make the channel worth watching.

I hope when the local stations go HD for their newscasts that they have more video than they now have (too much time is devorted to the talking heads).

I heard a rumor that WKRC "is considering" a full time all Spanish station. Has anyone heard anything about that?

The reason that I bring it up here is that it will be the third digital feed for WKRC-DT and it would mean even less bandwidth for their HD channel, 12-01.

I know that it just a matter of time before Cincinnati gets a full time Spanish station (a lot of the "top 35" markets already have one) but, to me, it seems stupid to put it on a digital subchannel and reduce the quality of your prime broadcasts. It seems like a better spot for it would be 64-02 (or even 64-01, MyTV has very poor ratings). I don't know if 64 has the facilities for a second digital channel but since a lot of people don't watch MyTV the loss of quality on their main station would not be that big of issue.

I heard a rumor that WKRC "is considering" a full time all Spanish station. Has anyone heard anything about that?

The reason that I bring it up here is that it will be the third digital feed for WKRC-DT and it would mean even less bandwidth for their HD channel, 12-01.

I know that it just a matter of time before Cincinnati gets a full time Spanish station (a lot of the "top 35" markets already have one) but, to me, it seems stupid to put it on a digital subchannel and reduce the quality of your prime broadcasts. It seems like a better spot for it would be 64-02 (or even 64-01, MyTV has very poor ratings). I don't know if 64 has the facilities for a second digital channel but since a lot of people don't watch MyTV the loss of quality on their main station would not be that big of issue.


This is complete guessing and speculation on my part, but it had seemed to me that WKRC's "Nuestro Rincon" failed badly enough to warrant moving it to web-only, and I figured that announcement was just a way for them to announce to the public, rather than say it's "canceled." I really don't see how a local Spanish station could make it in this market, but maybe I am underestimating things.

As for MyNet, I do like how they seem to be showing a lot of HD movies. I'd much rather see them go to either all HD movies or start over as an HD sports network.

My understanding is that UC basketball games were in HD only as a test because the company that produced the games had a new production truck and wanted to learn their new equipment. They gave WXIX that truck for a number of games at no extra cost, but come the next season the truck was an extra cost.

Must have been a REALLY expensive test then..., they actually ran a direct fiber line to the Shuemaker center. :)

They had the fiber line way before they produced anything in HD.

I believe it was Dan Hoard who posted an answer on WXIX's website a couple years back explaining why they weren't doing HD anymore... I'm pretty sure he said something along the lines of what I posted above.

Wonder how long it's gonna be until all the Reds games are in HD. Watching this 4:3 crap sucks. And you don't want to see Weathers, Coffey and Stanton in stretch mode.

The only time the Reds relief pitchers are not in strech mode is after they give up the long ball and clear the bases. :D

They had the fiber line way before they produced anything in HD.

I believe it was Dan Hoard who posted an answer on WXIX's website a couple years back explaining why they weren't doing HD anymore... I'm pretty sure he said something along the lines of what I posted above.

Nah, my x-father in law is working maintenance at UC., he told me when they were laying fiber there and I was talking to Paul (chief engineer at Fox19)at the time about it.
They specifically laid it to show games in HD, did a few test runs and then canned it until it will be beneficial. (Hoping soon... unless they play like they did this past year, lol.)

This is complete guessing and speculation on my part, but it had seemed to me that WKRC's "Nuestro Rincon" failed badly enough to warrant moving it to web-only, and I figured that announcement was just a way for them to announce to the public, rather than say it's "canceled." I really don't see how a local Spanish station could make it in this market, but maybe I am underestimating things.

I sort of wondered that too. The only reason that I even posted it is because of the "source" that it came from (a WKRC employee; not one that posts here).

I also have no idea what WKRC uses (anybody know?)

We have Ikegami HL-DV7AWN cameras running DVCam format tape.

BUT you never know what we might come up with next... ;)

Well that plus the question on the survey about HD news makes it look like WCPO is getting close to HD news.

In this competitive news market, it seems like something like HD could marginally help in the ratings war.



Look for the news to be in HD around Labor Day .

Is anyone having trouble with Weather Plus (5.2) OTA?

For the last week, maybe two, I get only bursts of audio. Maybe a fraction of a second of sound and then silence for several seconds. The video is rock solid and so is the signal strength.

All other OTA channels are fine.

I've sent two e-mails to staff at WLWT and haven't had a reply.

Is anyone having trouble with Weather Plus (5.2) OTA?

For the last week, maybe two, I get only bursts of audio. Maybe a fraction of a second of sound and then silence for several seconds. The video is rock solid and so is the signal strength.

All other OTA channels are fine.

I've sent two e-mails to staff at WLWT and haven't had a reply.



I'm having the same problem with 5.2.on my Zenith receiver. I have a Polaroid 15.4 HD TV and it has no problems with 5.2

Look for the news to be in HD around Labor Day .

From the information posted and other things I have heard, I can def. see WCPO doing HD by Labor Day, if not before.

Is anyone having trouble with Weather Plus (5.2) OTA?

For the last week, maybe two, I get only bursts of audio. Maybe a fraction of a second of sound and then silence for several seconds. The video is rock solid and so is the signal strength.

All other OTA channels are fine.

I've sent two e-mails to staff at WLWT and haven't had a reply.


I've had issues with it for the last couple of weeks also.

Is anyone having trouble with Weather Plus (5.2) OTA?

For the last week, maybe two, I get only bursts of audio. Maybe a fraction of a second of sound and then silence for several seconds. The video is rock solid and so is the signal strength.

All other OTA channels are fine.

I've sent two e-mails to staff at WLWT and haven't had a reply.

Welcome to AVSforum Bill S ....

Small world, I suppose ;) ....

Anyhow, Yep, have noticed the missing audio from 5-2 occasionally here as well ...

Fired off email with link to your post here to one of their engineers, who used to monitor this thread to some extent -- Not sure if he is still there or not, as it's been a couple of years since we've talked ....

Thanks to all who commented. I figured the problem was not here since every other channel works fine.

I sent an e-mail to the General Manager at WLWT (Richard Dyer) and he answered quickly. He said that for the past week and a half the station has been working to repair a damaged tube in their HD XMTR and that they have been operating at half power. He also said the problem has been repaired and the station should have returned to full power earlier this week.

I just checked 5.2, though, and the problem is still there.

At the least, they're aware that some of us are having problems.

As a weather nut of sorts, 5.2 offers the best OTA coverage I've seen. I don't have cable or satellite so that station, and 7.2, are the only weather channels I'm aware of on UHF (I don't have a VHF antenna up or I know channel 9 has a good offering, too).

I suppose it's time to sit back and wait. Hopefully it'll get fixed soon.

I got another e-mail from WLWT yesterday, this from Paul Nowakowski, the Chief Engineer there, and he suggested I re-scan all my channels. Pauls said, "We experienced an issue with our PSIP server that caused the identifying data in our digital stream to affect some receivers. Rescanning has solved most of the issues."

When I turned on the TV last evening, I notised that the audio was intermittent - sometimes perfect, other times fragmented as it has been for the past couple of weeks. I decided to wait and see what happened. By the time I went to bed, all was well. The audio was perfect.

I have NOT yet re-scanned the channels but will do that if the problem persists.

This information may help others of you who are having similar problems.

I have to say, both the response from the station's GM and CE is very gratifying. They certainly answered quckly and both showed they cared about their viewers. I don't see that very often. Hats off to WLWT.

With a little regional "tropo" in the air tonight and strong signals booming in from Lexington and Columbus all evening I ran into an interesting analog LP station in Columbus for the first time. They are currently running a OSU Volleyball game and are:

WCSN-LP 32 -- The CSN stands for "Columbus Sports Network" --- Looked them up, and found this :

http://www.columbussports.net/

Thought I'd mention it, as It seems like an interesting idea and wonder if something similar could work in Cincinnati market(or even Dayton) for a LP station, perhaps on a future LP digital's SD multicast services. I suppose it's even possible/within the realm of possibilities something like this could *someday* in the distant future be an HD thing ...

I think WCSN-LP is relatively new, and I wonder if it will work out in the long term for them?

Note that even though they are a LP station they are carried on TW, insight, and WOW! cable systems in Central Ohio ... LP stations have no must carry rights, hence apparently why WBQC-CA/WOTH-LP seem to have difficult time getting on cable, except to some extent when WBQC had UPN affiliation. Although IMO, both stations carry quite a bit of interesting programming Including sports programming such as CFL football games, and some motor sports.

Checked the FCC database, and noticed WCSN-LP appears to be owned by an outfit called "united media acquisitions, LLC" - Who knows who owns them, a google search doesn't produce anything apparent. Also noticed they have filed for a digital companion channel on 33, although that app hasn't been granted by FCC as of yet.

Update: Also found this informative article about them :

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/new-ohio-sports-outlet.html

Besides the BlueJackets, Columbus has nothing so the Buckeys are king there. Makes sense to me why TW carries it.. also TW Columbus is a more more progressive and community oriented company then TW Cinti (even though they are run out of the same office)

WCSN-LP 32 -- The CSN stands for "Columbus Sports Network" --- Looked them up, and found this :

http://www.columbussports.net/

Thought I'd mention it, as It seems like an interesting idea and wonder if something similar could work in Cincinnati market(or even Dayton) for a LP station, perhaps on a future LP digital's SD multicast services. I suppose it's even possible/within the realm of possibilities something like this could *someday* in the distant future be an HD thing ...

I think WCSN-LP is relatively new, and I wonder if it will work out in the long term for them?

Note that even though they are a LP station they are carried on TW, insight, and WOW! cable systems in Central Ohio ... LP stations have no must carry rights, hence apparently why WBQC-CA/WOTH-LP seem to have difficult time getting on cable, except to some extent when WBQC had UPN affiliation. Although IMO, both stations carry quite a bit of interesting programming Including sports programming such as CFL football games, and some motor sports.



I've worked a few games for WCSN, they do Clippers baseball, Destroyers arena football, soccer, and whatever else they can get rights to. They will never get the rights to Buckeye football or basketball. The owners made sure they had cable coverage before going on the air. From what I hear they have deep pockets and are willing to lose money for a while before turning a profit.

I doubt this type of operation could be successful here in Cincinnati, one because we are a major league city and rights are not available, and two because Time Warner probably would not let it happen without getting a piece of the pie.

Don't expect these games to be in HD for a long time, the production costs would really be prohibitive for a company of this size.

I doubt this type of operation could be successful here in Cincinnati, one because we are a major league city and rights are not available ...


That is what I was wondering about. I'm really not much of a sports fan, so I don't keep up with those things. Still, seems pretty obvious that rights for stuff such as UC and probably XU and MU as well are already covered, and more than obvious regarding Reds+Bengals. Was just wondering if there was enough sports of interest in the SW Ohio/N KY where the rights weren't taken up. Such as, Dayton Dragons(maybe for Dayton but not Cincy), Motor sports, Harness racing, or anything else sportswise besides the Baseball, football and basketball rights that are already "spoken for" ...


Don't expect these games to be in HD for a long time, the production costs would really be prohibitive for a company of this size.

Agree, that is why I said perhaps someday in the distant future(for WCSN) ..... As, I could see where there might be quite a bit of interest in it ....

Just Ran across this article : Free, Wireless TV makes a Resurgence (http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0079/t.6639.html)

Near end of article, he mentions something I've been saying all along concerning Broadcasters promotion of their OTA HD service ....

Ok, I am finally going to be working this weekend on replacing my old antenna CM3020 (that fell over in the ice storm, not to mention it is still working when I stuck it in the ground on a 3" pole, lol, low signal though).
I checked out Lowes today and they don't sell CM anymore. They have Philips stuff now.
I have 2 choices SDV7700K/17 for $98 or SDV7400K/17 for $58

Comparison:
http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/catalog.jsp?navigationValues=TV_GR_US_CONSUMER%25TV_ACCESSOR IES_CA_US_CONSUMER&compare=true&productIds=SDV7700K_17_US_CONSUMER%25SDV7400K_17_US_CONSUMER %25&language=en&country=us&catalogType=CONSUMER&productId=&productId=

Looking at http://www.antennaweb.org I see that the only 2 extra stations I might catch with SDV7400K/17
violet - vhf WSYX 6 ABC COLUMBUS OH 61° 75.7 6
violet - vhf WAVE 3 NBC LOUISVILLE KY 233° 89.0 3

Ok, does anyone else see any reason that I should go with SDV7700K/17 or SDV7400K/17 besides saving $40.?
My tower is going to be 3 10" sections or Rohn(?) with about 5' of it sunk in cement.

Thanks

Not familar with the phillips stuff. Looks somewhat similar to CM's "advantage" line of antennas. Believe the CM advantage stuff as well as RS's VU antennas are probably made by another company such as Antennacraft, suspect something similiar might be the case with the phillips stuff. I do know the 1 1/4" diameter, 5' and 10' mast sections from CM Lowe's used to have is better stuff(thicker gauge metal, and the grey stuff supposedly had some coating on it to reduce rusting) than what they currently have(presumably from phillips).

FYI, Dayton Wintronic (http://www.daytonwintronic.com/) is a full line CM Distrubutor in this area. According to info here this CM dealer finder (http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/0612/locator.html) "participating"(whatever that means) Ace hardware+tru value stores carry CM stuff as well.

With a sturdy tower mount, if it were me and I was looking for a VHF/UHF combo with good performance+better build quality, i might think about going with something like CM3671/CM3678 (http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/0612/antennas_outdoor.html) or Winegard HD7084P or HD8200P. (http://www.winegard.com/offair/vhfuhf.htm) Or, for something a little smaller some of the other winegard or CM(not advantage line) medium sized VHF/UHF combos.

BTW, There is a winegard distrubutor in Dayton as well, I've ordered some stuff from them before with good results. You can find their contact info via a search here:
http://www.winegard.com/dealer/dealer_search.htm

Much of This stuff is available online from places such as www.solidsignal.com as well.

Not familar with the phillips stuff. Looks somewhat similar to CM's "advantage" line of antennas. Believe the CM advantage stuff as well as RS's VU antennas are probably made by another company such as Antennacraft, suspect something similiar might be the case with the phillips stuff. I do know the 1 1/4" diameter, 5' and 10' mast sections from CM Lowe's used to have is better stuff(thicker gauge metal, and the grey stuff supposedly had some coating on it to reduce rusting) than what they currently have(presumably from phillips).

FYI, Dayton Wintronic (http://www.daytonwintronic.com/) is a full line CM Distrubutor in this area. According to info here this CM dealer finder (http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/0612/locator.html) "participating"(whatever that means) Ace hardware+tru value stores carry CM stuff as well.

With a sturdy tower mount, if it were me and I was looking for a VHF/UHF combo with good performance+better build quality, i might think about going with something like CM3671/CM3678 (http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/0612/antennas_outdoor.html) or Winegard HD7084P or HD8200P. (http://www.winegard.com/offair/vhfuhf.htm) Or, for something a little smaller some of the other winegard or CM(not advantage line) medium sized VHF/UHF combos.

BTW, There is a winegard distrubutor in Dayton as well, I've ordered some stuff from them before with good results. You can find their contact info via a search here:
http://www.winegard.com/dealer/dealer_search.htm

Much of This stuff is available online from places such as www.solidsignal.com as well.


Thanks Nitewatchman,

When I looked at the Philips boxes it did say that it was covered in something to prevent rusting, etc. However I am not sure what it really looks like inside.

I also checked out RS where they have a 80" 32 element antenna for $59 which is better than SDV7400K one. If I can just go there an pick it up it would be great!
Now that I actually allocated a weekend to do all this it started raining, figures!

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103085&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family
* VHF range: 90 miles UHF range: 70 miles FM range: 70 miles
Should be enough to get what I need.

Currently,

WCVN-DT - Incorrect time. I have adjusted the daylight savings time setting, however this doesn't change time on this station. So its not on my end.

FYI, WCVN-DT STT looks correct here at 8:30pm EDT .. 00:30 UTC, same as other stations with correct time ....

I have not been receiving digital signals since my SR-151 went out. I am now considering the purchase of a 32' LCD TV with built in ATSC/NTSC tuner. I do not have cable, so I am concerned about OTA reception. I assume, maybe incorrectly, the all LG units have 5th or even 6th generation tuners, but I would rather not be limited to LG. I have been unable to find info on the OTA receptiion on Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc. I am also interested in the reception on Series 3 TIVO units. Any info or links would be appreciated.

I have not been receiving digital signals since my SR-151 went out. I am now considering the purchase of a 32' LCD TV with built in ATSC/NTSC tuner. I do not have cable, so I am concerned about OTA reception. I assume, maybe incorrectly, the all LG units have 5th or even 6th generation tuners, but I would rather not be limited to LG. I have been unable to find info on the OTA receptiion on Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc. I am also interested in the reception on Series 3 TIVO units. Any info or links would be appreciated.


You may want to check out the HDTV Reception Hardware forum area for more information on this. I have personally had very good luck with a Samung DLP TV's built-in tuner and a Samsung set top box.

I live in the Mason area and currently use a powered set of rabbit ears for HDTV. This works well most of the time but I always have trouble pulling in ABC. The wife watches a lot on ABC so this has become an issue. I know that WCPO is VHF and hard to pull-in but I also have a hard time getting WKEF from Dayton. I'm surprised by this because I can get WRGT with no issues and I thought their antenna was close to (if not the same) as WKEF.

Anyway, I am considering upgrading to an attic antenna and was wondering if anyone had a recommendation for a UHF/VHF antenna and possibly an installer. Any tips on what to avoid would also be appreciated.

// ScottA

Currently,

WCVN-DT - Incorrect time. I have adjusted the daylight savings time setting, however this doesn't change time on this station. So its not on my end.
WCVN-DT has been this way for months. IIRC, I saw it before DST, so it may be a timezone thing for them. I only witness it if I do a scan starting on WCVN-DT, then my LG shows the time wrong, some of the other channel's programs move off..

WCVN-DT has been this way for months. IIRC, I saw it before DST, so it may be a timezone thing for them. I only witness it if I do a scan starting on WCVN-DT, then my LG shows the time wrong, some of the other channel's programs move off..


WCVN-DT is an hour off on my Zenith integrated tuner as well

I live in the Mason area and currently use a powered set of rabbit ears for HDTV. This works well most of the time but I always have trouble pulling in ABC. // ScottA Scott, I'm in the same boat. I live just south of Mason (north of 275) & use high powered rabbit ears. My TV is in the basement and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get anything but all come in strong except ABC which is almost impossible. For whatever reason the ABC signal must be really weak here. I was going to try another antenna (rabbit ears) but think it will be moot. I don't want to go to an attic version as I'm just trying to tread water until Dish offers the locals in Cincy.

I live in the Mason area and currently use a powered set of rabbit ears for HDTV. This works well most of the time but I always have trouble pulling in ABC. The wife watches a lot on ABC so this has become an issue. I know that WCPO is VHF and hard to pull-in but I also have a hard time getting WKEF from Dayton. I'm surprised by this because I can get WRGT with no issues and I thought their antenna was close to (if not the same) as WKEF.

Anyway, I am considering upgrading to an attic antenna and was wondering if anyone had a recommendation for a UHF/VHF antenna and possibly an installer. Any tips on what to avoid would also be appreciated.

// ScottA


Scott,

I'm just west of you. (south east corner of Liberty twp butler county) and I've had great luck with the radio shack 190 in my attic, Its a big 2 piece unit but I took the back half (channels 2-7) and tossed it aside and just use the front half. I have it resting in my attic looking out through a brick gable and it picks up everything including KET just fine.

Steve

Does anyone know if WLWT-DT is still using manual switching? The reason that I ask is that I am seeing more and more programs that are SUPPOSE to be in HD (from NBC) start out in SD and not switch to HD until latter in the program (I'm guessing after a lot of call-in complaints from viewers). Sunday evening I noticed that the first 20 minutes of the "Concert for Diana" at 8 PM was in SD.

I live in the Eastgate area of Cincinnati and use a Terk OTA antenna. I have the same problem as you guys, WCPO is becoming increasingly diffucult to tune in, it used to be easier.

Does anyone know if WLWT-DT is still using manual switching? The reason that I ask is that I am seeing more and more programs that are SUPPOSE to be in HD (from NBC) start out in SD and not switch to HD until latter in the program (I'm guessing after a lot of call-in complaints from viewers). Sunday evening I noticed that the first 20 minutes of the "Concert for Diana" at 8 PM was in SD.


It's been very rare for me to see issues with WLWT-DT switching. I'm almost positive they have automatic switching. Manual switching is more obvious on WKRC-DT, where you can clearly see someone "flipping the switch" to insert local commercials. They used to miss switches all the time, although recently they've been much, much better.

Maybe WLWT-DT didn't have that particular program marked for HD and so they manually switched it once they realized the problem? What other shows or times have you seen WLWT-DT miss HD?

Scott, I'm in the same boat. I live just south of Mason (north of 275) & use high powered rabbit ears. My TV is in the basement and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get anything but all come in strong except ABC which is almost impossible. For whatever reason the ABC signal must be really weak here. I was going to try another antenna (rabbit ears) but think it will be moot. I don't want to go to an attic version as I'm just trying to tread water until Dish offers the locals in Cincy.

Thanks for the confirmation that it's not just me. :) I also have Dish HD but from what I hear from other sites, it may be a long time until we get local HD through them. Dish seems to be focusing on areas where it is difficult to get HD OTA which makes sense (when I set aside the "Why not us?" outrage).

Could any of our contacts in the local stations tell us if Dish has contacted them about local HD coverage?

// ScottA

Just an observation: As of last night (7/1) I was getting proper PSIP program identification on both WXIX-DT channels 19-1 and 19-2.

Thanks for the confirmation that it's not just me. :) I also have Dish HD but from what I hear from other sites, it may be a long time until we get local HD through them. Dish seems to be focusing on areas where it is difficult to get HD OTA which makes sense (when I set aside the "Why not us?" outrage).

Could any of our contacts in the local stations tell us if Dish has contacted them about local HD coverage?

// ScottA

Since you've already got a dish outside, you could probably put a reasonably small VHF antenna up and get WCPO-DT fine. WBNS 10 Columbus might be interfering a bit but it's still pretty far away from you to cause much of a problem I'd think. In '09 that problem should be solved.

The only time I was up there, WLWT had twin switching computers. One for analog and one for digital. All the switching was pre-programmed. The digital computer is basically programmed to either take NBC-HD feed or the analog chain. The analog computer gets programmed with all the commercials, live breaks and such. But if they miss a click when programming the digital computer, it stays on the analog until someone up there catches it.

Doc

Thanks for the confirmation that it's not just me. :) I also have Dish HD but from what I hear from other sites, it may be a long time until we get local HD through them. Dish seems to be focusing on areas where it is difficult to get HD OTA which makes sense (when I set aside the "Why not us?" outrage).
// ScottA No problem. Fonud this blub from another forum that likely explains why some of us can't get ABC.

"All the digitals except ABC out of Cincinnati are UHF"

http://cincinnatihdtv.com/Mambo/index.php?option=com_forum&page=viewtopic&t=47

It's been very rare for me to see issues with WLWT-DT switching. I'm almost positive they have automatic switching. Manual switching is more obvious on WKRC-DT, where you can clearly see someone "flipping the switch" to insert local commercials. They used to miss switches all the time, although recently they've been much, much better.

Maybe WLWT-DT didn't have that particular program marked for HD and so they manually switched it once they realized the problem? What other shows or times have you seen WLWT-DT miss HD?

I've seen them miss the switch to HD on various programs, usually sporting events on weekends (about the only thing worth watching on NBC) and for short periods (usually the first few minutes) and that is why I asked about the manual switching.

You are right about WKRC-DT. They are doing a MUCH better job lately switching to HD. I usually record the Letterman show every night (and watch it the next day) and there have been very few misses lately.

The only time I was up there, WLWT had twin switching computers. One for analog and one for digital. All the switching was pre-programmed. The digital computer is basically programmed to either take NBC-HD feed or the analog chain. The analog computer gets programmed with all the commercials, live breaks and such. But if they miss a click when programming the digital computer, it stays on the analog until someone up there catches it.

Doc


That's what I figured they had. Thanks for the clarification. It appears as though that's still the case.

No problem. Fonud this blub from another forum that likely explains why some of us can't get ABC.

"All the digitals except ABC out of Cincinnati are UHF"

http://cincinnatihdtv.com/Mambo/index.php?option=com_forum&page=viewtopic&t=47


Yes. Also if you check the first page of this thread you'll see a list of the actual frequencies the digital channels use. Although not a perfect method, using your antenna to tune analog 9 can help you find a sweet spot and good position for your rabbit ears when attempting to tune WCPO-DT (actual frequency on channel 10).

If you could get something outside, it probably wouldn't take much to get WCPO-DT, just getting an antenna that performs well on VHF outside and high is probably enough; you may not need a giant antenna to get satisfactory results. If you've already got a dish, even those clip on antennas (which generally aren't even that great) may be "good enough" for you.

I am currently with TWC in Fairfield Township. I think I am paying too much for my digital/Road Runner package, not to mention, the HD content provided is very poor.

I know that TWC will be changing to switched digital and more VOD which will give them the capacity to provide more HD channels and keep pace with DirecTV's upcoming satellite launch. Currently, it looks like Dish Network has the best HD lineup. Also, I have heard that DirecTV compresses their HD signal to the point where it noticeably affects the picture quality.

With these things in mind, what is the general consensus on what provider is best bet for the next few years?

My #1 priority is picture quality followed closely by HD content... not having ESPN2, NFL Network HD, etc. is a joke.

Thanks

With these things in mind, what is the general consensus on what provider is best bet for the next few years?

Having recently switched from TWC to DirecTV, I am extremely happy (should have done it sooner). The HD locals definitely look just as good as TWC and OTA. I was worried about quality after seeing the poor looking picture at Best Buy, etc. The national HD channels look almost as good as TWC, but these will be replaced by new MPEG4 channels this fall anyway. I wouldn’t count on TWC ever adding any HD channels. D* has shot their mouth off too much to not follow through. If the new channels all look as good as the HD locals currently do, quality will not be an issue at all compared to TWC. As for quantity, it won’t even be close. Plus, D* has a LOT more SD channels than TWC and I pay quite a bit less for service than I did with TWC.

I live in Florence, KY which is just 15 miles south of Cincinnati. I purchased a DB8 antenna (from antennasdirect/DB8_HD_Antenna.html) and attached it about 5 feet above my roof line. I have a pre-amp and run the cable down to a distribution panel in the basement. Then, from there, it is distributed signal throughout my 7 or 8 outlets. I only have one HDTV with a ATSC tuner. The local channels 5.1, 9.1, and 12.1 do not come in. 5.1 and 12.1 have a signal strength of 90+, but there is no picture. Channel 19.1 comes in fine along with all the PBS and 64.1. Even the analog signals for 12 and 5 do not come in or they are totally scrambled. I don't understand what is wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.

I live in Florence, KY which is just 15 miles south of Cincinnati. I purchased a DB8 antenna (from antennasdirect/DB8_HD_Antenna.html) and attached it about 5 feet above my roof line. I have a pre-amp and run the cable down to a distribution panel in the basement. Then, from there, it is distributed signal throughout my 7 or 8 outlets. I only have one HDTV with a ATSC tuner. The local channels 5.1, 9.1, and 12.1 do not come in. 5.1 and 12.1 have a signal strength of 90+, but there is no picture. Channel 19.1 comes in fine along with all the PBS and 64.1. Even the analog signals for 12 and 5 do not come in or they are totally scrambled. I don't understand what is wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.

Welcome to AVS Forum.

Can you (or have you) run temporary long coax straight from the pre-amp to your HDTV (bypassing your distribution panel and coax runs)? This would help us narrow down the cause of your problems.

Actually, yes, I have. It came with a 100 foot coax that I ran directly from the Antenna through the doorway to my TV. This bypassed the pre-amp as well. I still did not receive 12.1 or 5.1. With this method, I did receive 9.1.

Also, the analog stations do come in better......not all scrambled.

Todd

Since you've already got a dish outside, you could probably put a reasonably small VHF antenna up and get WCPO-DT fine. WBNS 10 Columbus might be interfering a bit but it's still pretty far away from you to cause much of a problem I'd think. In '09 that problem should be solved.

I was hoping to avoid running another cable from outside to inside the house. I'm assuming that the antenna would have a different coax line and couldn't use the satellite's coax.

// Scott A

I don't have satellite. Just the antenna. 1 coax run to the basement.

I live in Florence, KY which is just 15 miles south of Cincinnati. I purchased a DB8 antenna (from antennasdirect/DB8_HD_Antenna.html) and attached it about 5 feet above my roof line. I have a pre-amp and run the cable down to a distribution panel in the basement. Then, from there, it is distributed signal throughout my 7 or 8 outlets. I only have one HDTV with a ATSC tuner. The local channels 5.1, 9.1, and 12.1 do not come in. 5.1 and 12.1 have a signal strength of 90+, but there is no picture. Channel 19.1 comes in fine along with all the PBS and 64.1. Even the analog signals for 12 and 5 do not come in or they are totally scrambled. I don't understand what is wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.
I live in Erlanger which is about the same distance as Florence just a little east,and based on my experience you have way to much antenna and I'd ditch the pre amp too

When I turn off the pre-amp my signal goes from 90 to 60. I still get no picture. This is a UHF antenna.....do I need a UHF/VHF antenna? What do you use?

I had CM-3018 antenna(large directional,45-60 miles range no pre amp) in the attic of my house.This antenna went into a distribution box(1x8 )that added 3 decibel gain.I would have very unreliable reception,my signal strength would go from 90 to 15 and back on some channels(19,12) and my reception on other channels would be perfect(5,9,64,etc.)I unplugged the power supply to the box and my signal strength went into the tank too,so finally I went up into the attic with an old Silver Sensor I had to experiment.I disconnected the CM3018 and connected the SS and laid on the rafter pointing in the same direction as the CM-3018 went back downstairs and all my signal strengths were less(65-80) on my problem channels(19,12),but they were not fluctuating and all my other channels were the solid too.I replaced my CM-3018 with a CM-3010 and have not had a single problem since.I looked at the link for the antenna you provided and it seems as it's more of a fringe antenna.The website describes it as an antenna that is "intended for people at great distances from the transmitters" and based on my info from Antenna Web. Org we are about 11 or 12 miles away from the towers.I would experiment with a smaller antenna from a local source such as Lowes,Home Depot or Radio Shack.Good luck.

rhupertgee,

At your location, with an outdoor antenna, I would hardly worry about using a pre-amp, you are much too close to the transmitters in Clifton. What I would recommend to do is, again run the antenna straight to the tv and get some walkie-talkies out (or cell phones) and have someone on the roof and someone watching the tv. Then tune to channel 35 (5.1), find where you get a signal lock. Channel 35 is a strong signal and will get you aimed between the 4 different towers, with FOX to the west and ABC/CBS to the east. By using a pre-amp, I believe you are strengthing you multipath problem. Once you get the antenna aimed right, then try feeding it to the distribution block. If this knocks out your signal, simply use some splitters instead, these have very low loss and should not effect your signal. One thing to remember is, once you get the signal locked without dropouts, you are great, no matter what the signal meter says on the tv. You can find plenty of discussion on how accurate those meters are. As always we're here to help and welcome to AVS!

I don't know if anyone else watches WXIX in the evening, but I have noticed that last couple of days that shows like That 70s Show, Seinfeld and King of Queens have smooth audio, but the video is very choppy. This is only happening on the digital channel, 19.1, and not on analog. I recall seeing this before, but I don't remember what was causing this. If possible, please confirm what I am seeing. My guess is something from the recording device for the syndicated programming to the encoder is messing up.

rhupertgee,

At your location, with an outdoor antenna, I would hardly worry about using a pre-amp, you are much too close to the transmitters in Clifton. What I would recommend to do is, again run the antenna straight to the tv and get some walkie-talkies out (or cell phones) and have someone on the roof and someone watching the tv. Then tune to channel 35 (5.1), find where you get a signal lock. Channel 35 is a strong signal and will get you aimed between the 4 different towers, with FOX to the west and ABC/CBS to the east. By using a pre-amp, I believe you are strengthing you multipath problem. Once you get the antenna aimed right, then try feeding it to the distribution block. If this knocks out your signal, simply use some splitters instead, these have very low loss and should not effect your signal. One thing to remember is, once you get the signal locked without dropouts, you are great, no matter what the signal meter says on the tv. You can find plenty of discussion on how accurate those meters are. As always we're here to help and welcome to AVS!
I am going to go to Radio Shack and buy a UHF/VHF antenna to see if that helps. I will remove the pre-amp.

The one thing I don't understand is tuning to channel 35. When I do a channel search, the channel 5 and 5.1 are there, but without picture.

I am going to go to Radio Shack and buy a UHF/VHF antenna to see if that helps. I will remove the pre-amp.

The one thing I don't understand is tuning to channel 35. When I do a channel search, the channel 5 and 5.1 are there, but without picture.


WCPO-DT (9-1) is the only digital channel currently on VHF. It is actually broadcast on channel 10 but your TV re-maps this to display as 9-1 to you. WLWT-DT (5-1) broadcasts on channel 35 (which is UHF) and re-maps on your TV to 5-1. Check the first page of this thread for a list of all the channels and the actual frequencies they broadcast on. In 2009 some of these actual channels will change (for example WKRC-DT (12-1) will move from its current UHF channel to actual channel 12 (VHF) once they turn off their analog station).

If you are not having trouble with 9-1, then adding the VHF piece won't help you, at least at this point.

As has been said, the antenna you are using is quite large and considered to be one of the strongest UHF channels out there, with decent performance on VHF as well even though it's not rated as such. You may want to double-check your balun (little thing on your antenna that converts twin-lead to coax). Also, its possible you've got a bad 100' coax cable, or even a bad f-connector on one of the ends.

I don't think your antenna is a problem. It might be a little bit overkill for your distance, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue. Have you spent a lot of time "aiming" the antenna with someone observing the signal strength on the TV? The antenna you have is pretty directional and if your aim is off a bit it could cause problems. You do probably want to consider removing the pre-amp completely from the picture. I have seen some amps that actually harm the signal when in-line with no power than if they were not in line at all. Plus, if you are amplifying an already strong signal you may have "too much" signal hitting your TV tuner.

Yes, I have spent time pointing the antenna. I just bought a "HDTV" outside UHF/VHF/FM antenna from Lowe's and I am going to try to put it together and try it out to see if I can get those channels.

I would hope the cable is not bad since most of it is run in the walls. It is possible the connectors could be bad. I can re-cut them and re-crimp.

I'll let you know how the new antenna works.

I don't know if anyone else watches WXIX in the evening, but I have noticed that last couple of days that shows like That 70s Show, Seinfeld and King of Queens have smooth audio, but the video is very choppy. This is only happening on the digital channel, 19.1, and not on analog. I recall seeing this before, but I don't remember what was causing this. If possible, please confirm what I am seeing. My guess is something from the recording device for the syndicated programming to the encoder is messing up.



I'm having the same problems with WXIX-DT on both of my Polaroid15"4 ATSC sets. It's been going on for the last few weeks.

I know I have contacted the engineer at WXIX in the past, however, I no longer have that email address. If someone does have an email for WXIX, please post or PM so we can get this issue resolved as it is most likely the digital stream is not monitored at WXIX.

Yes, I have spent time pointing the antenna. I just bought a "HDTV" outside UHF/VHF/FM antenna from Lowe's and I am going to try to put it together and try it out to see if I can get those channels.

I would hope the cable is not bad since most of it is run in the walls. It is possible the connectors could be bad. I can re-cut them and re-crimp.

I'll let you know how the new antenna works.
Well, here is my preliminary results:

Purchased an HDTV UHF/VHF/FM outdoor antenna from Lowe's. I hooked it up with just a connection ran through the door of my house to the TV and was able pick up A LOT more channels (Dayton 2,7,22,45) including some HD channels from Dayton (7.1). Cincinnati 9.1 comes in great. The bad news is that Cincinnati 12.1 and 5.1 still have no picture or sound. The signal strength is 90+ on both channels. The weird thing is that I get 12.2 (CW) and 5.2 which is an all weather channel.

Could there be something wrong with my TV? Unfortunately, it is the only HDTV I have to test with.

Thanks for your helps/comments. I feel I am getting closer.

I know I have contacted the engineer at WXIX in the past, however, I no longer have that email address. If someone does have an email for WXIX, please post or PM so we can get this issue resolved as it is most likely the digital stream is not monitored at WXIX.

I just emailed the Chief Engineer over at WXIX. I'll let you know if he responds with anything.

Well, here is my preliminary results:

Purchased an HDTV UHF/VHF/FM outdoor antenna from Lowe's. I hooked it up with just a connection ran through the door of my house to the TV and was able pick up A LOT more channels (Dayton 2,7,22,45) including some HD channels from Dayton (7.1). Cincinnati 9.1 comes in great. The bad news is that Cincinnati 12.1 and 5.1 still have no picture or sound. The signal strength is 90+ on both channels. The weird thing is that I get 12.2 (CW) and 5.2 which is an all weather channel.

Could there be something wrong with my TV? Unfortunately, it is the only HDTV I have to test with.

Thanks for your helps/comments. I feel I am getting closer.


If you're able to decode 12-2 and 5-2 then your TV is receiving the signal for 5-1 and 12-1 just as well and should be able to decode them as well. If I had to guess at this point I'd say it's something with your TV. Do you have a neighbor who has an ATSC tuner set top box that you could borrow perhaps?

If you have a way to reset your TV to factory defaults and then try a re-scan that might be something to try as well.

What would those two channels have anything to do with it though? Why would I get all the channels except those 2......

what you are describing is pretty weird - it's kind of impossible to get the sub-channels without the main. Perhaps you are having a problem with 1080i decoding? Both 12-1 and 5-1 are the only channels in town using 1080i that I know, most of the others are using 720p... Except perhaps WCET-DT (48) which I can't recall.

It's pretty sweet that you're getting Dayton from Florence!

what you are describing is pretty weird - it's kind of impossible to get the sub-channels without the main. Perhaps you are having a problem with 1080i decoding? Both 12-1 and 5-1 are the only channels in town using 1080i that I know, most of the others are using 720p... Except perhaps WCET-DT (48) which I can't recall.

It's pretty sweet that you're getting Dayton from Florence!
Ah ha. It probably is related to the 1080i. Hmmmm......I am pretty sure my TV has a max resolution of 1080i, but I will check. That is a good thought and one that I can call RCA with to complain that my 1080i is not working.

It is pretty crazy that I am pulling Dayton, OH from Florence......since I am an alumni of UD, I wanted to try to get University of Dayton Basketball on channel 7 this winter.

We have a firm date for ESPN-2 HD and ESPN-U on TWC. In my monthly bill there is a flyer that says the new lineup is set to debut on August 7. Hooray!

Ah ha. It probably is related to the 1080i. Hmmmm......I am pretty sure my TV has a max resolution of 1080i, but I will check. That is a good thought and one that I can call RCA with to complain that my 1080i is not working.

It is pretty crazy that I am pulling Dayton, OH from Florence......since I am an alumni of UD, I wanted to try to get University of Dayton Basketball on channel 7 this winter.


I don't think the issue would have to do with the signal being 1080i. If you are using an integrated tuner (one that is internal to the tv), it should automatically convert 1080i signals to 720p if the display is 720p native, and vise-versa for a 1080i native. Now if you are using an external tuner, such as one built in a satellite box, then it is important to know what resolution your tv can display and to make sure the box is set to output that resolution. As far as 1080i native displays, this mainly consists of the older CRT Rear Projection and direct view sets. All panel displays (LCD, DLP, Plasma and LCOS) are either 720p or 1080p native.

Quick run down on resolutions for Cincinnati stations:
(Station, virtual channel, actual channel, resolution)
WLWT-DT 5.1 (35) - 1080i
WLWT-DT 5.2 (35) - 480i
WCPO-DT 9.1 (10) - 720p
WCPO-WX 9.2 (10) - 480i (not exactly, but close)
WKRC-DT 12.1 (31) - 1080i
WKRC-DT 12.2 (31) - 480i
WPTO-DT 14.6 (28) - 1080i
WPTO-DT 14.2-.5 (28) - 480i
WXIX-DT 19.1 (29) - 720p
WXIX-DT 19.2 (29) - 480i
WCET-DT 48.1 (34) - 1080i
WCET-DT 48.2 (34) - 480i
WCVN-DT 54.4 (24) - 720p
WCVN-DT 54.1-.6 (24) - 480i
WSTR-DT 64.1 (33) - 720p (Used to be 1080i when it was still WB)

So I would check WCET 48.1 and see if you can decode that station. If you can't, you need to look into your setup and make sure that a certain setting is not activated or deactivated that could effect how a 1080i channel is converted.

I don't think the issue would have to do with the signal being 1080i.

I agree. At first I thought that it was a 1080i issue but then saw that he was receiving other 1080i channels with no issue, including 7-1 WHIO-DT from Dayton:

[...] was able pick up A LOT more channels (Dayton 2,7,22,45) including some HD channels from Dayton (7.1).

Has anyone noticed that the audio on WCPO has sounded like crap the past few days? There is a distinct crackling and lots of distortion during jeopardy and wheel of fortune. Shows after 8:00 seem to be ok. I have TW

Has anyone else noticed this?

Tony

We have a firm date for ESPN-2 HD and ESPN-U on TWC. In my monthly bill there is a flyer that says the new lineup is set to debut on August 7. Hooray!

Whats that? How did I miss that in my flyer, I sure didn't see anything. I'll have to check in with them, that is great news.

Has anyone noticed that the audio on WCPO has sounded like crap the past few days? There is a distinct crackling and lots of distortion during jeopardy and wheel of fortune. Shows after 8:00 seem to be ok. I have TW

Has anyone else noticed this?

Tony


I have also noticed this. Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune are recorded a week at a time and then rebroadcast by WCPO. Perhaps this week is just a bad recording. If it continues, I will get a hold of WCPO's engineers.

Also, I noticed that WCVN-DT time has been corrected.

I am currently with TWC in Fairfield Township. I think I am paying too much for my digital/Road Runner package, not to mention, the HD content provided is very poor.

I know that TWC will be changing to switched digital and more VOD which will give them the capacity to provide more HD channels and keep pace with DirecTV's upcoming satellite launch. Currently, it looks like Dish Network has the best HD lineup. Also, I have heard that DirecTV compresses their HD signal to the point where it noticeably affects the picture quality.

With these things in mind, what is the general consensus on what provider is best bet for the next few years?

My #1 priority is picture quality followed closely by HD content... not having ESPN2, NFL Network HD, etc. is a joke.

Thanks

I have Dish Network and about 30 HD Channels for 20 bucks. You get the locals by plugging an antenna into the back of the DVR. The DVR will show the guide for those channels and record those channels as well. It's seamless. The picture quality is comparable to OTA. I certainly can't see the difference. I believe they also have a sweet deal going with 4 room installation and DVR for free.

I live in the Mason area and currently use a powered set of rabbit ears for HDTV. This works well most of the time but I always have trouble pulling in ABC. The wife watches a lot on ABC so this has become an issue. I know that WCPO is VHF and hard to pull-in but I also have a hard time getting WKEF from Dayton. I'm surprised by this because I can get WRGT with no issues and I thought their antenna was close to (if not the same) as WKEF.

Anyway, I am considering upgrading to an attic antenna and was wondering if anyone had a recommendation for a UHF/VHF antenna and possibly an installer. Any tips on what to avoid would also be appreciated.

// ScottA

I too live in Mason and I don't even bother with WCPO. I get the Dayton ABC on 22 with a very strong signal using an indoor antenna. Terk HDTVa. 30 bucks on amazon.com and picks up everything for me. I had another RCA previously and it did not come close to the power of this one. I'd try this one before messing with the attic.

Has anyone noticed that the audio on WCPO has sounded like crap the past few days? There is a distinct crackling and lots of distortion during jeopardy and wheel of fortune. Shows after 8:00 seem to be ok. I have TW

Has anyone else noticed this?

Tony

Anyone else having issues with the Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy! broadcast audio? What I have heard is the audio crackling also.

I too live in Mason and I don't even bother with WCPO. I get the Dayton ABC on 22 with a very strong signal using an indoor antenna. Terk HDTVa. 30 bucks on amazon.com and picks up everything for me. I had another RCA previously and it did not come close to the power of this one. I'd try this one before messing with the attic.

That's the same model I have so everyone's mileage may vary. It may be a geographic problem with my neighborhood or just not being able to find the "sweet spot" you have.

// Scott A

On July 11, DISH Network will launch Fox Sports Network Cincinnati in HD on Channel 377. They are also adding more HD channels starting August 15th.

Source: DISH Network Expands Nation's Largest HD Package (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1024392&highlight=)

DISH still isn't carrying the satellite delivered local stations in HD but all their HD receivers have very good ATSC tuners so that isn't a problem for those of us with good antenna (and within range).

I'm about as happy as can be with Dish, and they continue to deliver. We get 7 more national HD channels, FSN Cincinnati HD, and supposedly more to come mid-September.

Mean while, Time Warner is adding channels that have been on Dish for 18 months.

On July 11, DISH Network will launch Fox Sports Network Cincinnati in HD on Channel 377. They are also adding more HD channels starting August 15th.

Source: DISH Network Expands Nation's Largest HD Package (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1024392&highlight=)

DISH still isn't carrying the satellite delivered local stations in HD but all their HD receivers have very good ATSC tuners so that isn't a problem for those of us with good antenna (and within range). SWEET! With FSN and the History Channel HD my wish list is complete! Of course I still hold out hope for the local but I pick up all except ABC with rabbit ears so its not too big a deal.

On July 11, DISH Network will launch Fox Sports Network Cincinnati in HD on Channel 377. They are also adding more HD channels starting August 15th.

This is great but does anyone know how much HD content FSN Cincinnati produces? I don't think the Reds Home games are in HD. Will the away games be in HD if the home network produces it?

// Scott A

I think Reds and Bluejacket Hockey are the only items produced by the local FSN affiliate. They can pick up HD broadcasts in other areas, however, if they choose (such as PAC10 football and basketball).

This is great but does anyone know how much HD content FSN Cincinnati produces? I don't think the Reds Home games are in HD. Will the away games be in HD if the home network produces it?

// Scott A


You can check the schedule on Reds.com to see which games are in HD. If I remember correctly there were a fair number of games in HD and that included both home and away games.

Upcoming Reds games in HD on FSN-Cincinnati...

July 13th @ NYM
July 19th @ FLA
July 23rd vs MIL
July 25th vs MIL

August 1st @ WSH
August 2nd @ WSH
August 21st vs ATL
August 22nd vs ATL
August 24th vs FLA
August 28th @ PIT

Decent selection coming up, and a hell of a lot better than what we have currently. :) I'm glad to have switched to E* last year. I'm already pretty happy with the current lineup, and am now even more happy to see our RSN in HD and the additional HD channels!

Plus, I'm able to pick up all Cincinnati and Dayton channels OTA with a simple powered indoor antenna positioned in just the right spot.. :)

Good times for HD, no matter what provider you have.. competition is great. :)

On July 11, DISH Network will launch Fox Sports Network Cincinnati in HD on Channel 377.

This may not be good news for all Cincinnati area DISH HD subscribers. The Fox Sports Network Cincinnati feed is going to be from the satellite at 129. A lot of us get our HD from the 61.5 slot and don't have a dish for 129.

Hmmm... In Dayton the locals are on the 129 satellite so each of us have a Dish 1000 pointing that direction (110, 119, and 129 satellites). Do you have 2 dishes, Bill?

This may not be good news for all Cincinnati area DISH HD subscribers. The Fox Sports Network Cincinnati feed is going to be from the satellite at 129. A lot of us get our HD from the 61.5 slot and don't have a dish for 129.

I know that when I test the signal from Dish, I can select the 110, 119, and 129 satellite. Is 61.5 a "spotbeam" signal only for this area?

// Scott A

61.5 is a national satellite but few people around here use it. It is mainly used along the east coast. It mirrors the national HD channels on 129 as well, but does not mirror the regional sports networks.

Hmmm... In Dayton the locals are on the 129 satellite so each of us have a Dish 1000 pointing that direction (110, 119, and 129 satellites). Do you have 2 dishes, Bill?

Yes, I have two dishes but they are for 119/110 and 61.5. I get my HD from 61.5 and I am also a Sky Angel customer so I need the dish for 61.5 to get their channels. The Cincinnati locals (SD only) are from 110. There were some plans to put the Cincinnati HD locals on 129 but now I hear that those plans are on hold.

DISH plans on having two new satellite up by the end of the year so the whole "game" is going to change then (rumor is that the two new satellites will be for two new slots and with be for a HD/SD service (including HD locals) and will require a MPEG-4 receiver). Sky Angel has already said that they are going to move their 36 (or so) channels from satellite to IPTV by early next year so that will change things too.

Given how poorly the Reds are doing this year and all the changes that are coming on DISH Network I don't think it is worth it for me to change things right now (my 61.5 dish would have to be moved to a different location to "see" 129).