You can bet that besides the missing HD programming, there are a BUNCH of HD commercials that are airing on WKRC as SD because they can't figure out how to switch properly.
...Which would explain why so many commercials are letterboxed (16:9 window with black bars on all four sides)...

You could do some searches back in this thread regarding the differences between live streams and syndicated programming, but in short WKRC (as I noted before) needs to be able to retain the HD stream to broadcast later.

Thank you for the info.

That's amazing that WKRC is that behind in HD Broadcasting. I'm still shocked they are the only local still broadcasting in 2.0 DD.

I'm sure come 2009 there will be a lot more HD syndication and they will not be ready!

Are there any HD syndicated shows showing (other than WCPO) on any of the Cincinnati stations?

I'm not sure I would say that WKRC is "that behind in HD broadcasting". Until recently they didn't have a reason to install the equipment necessary to carry syndicated HD programs. I think WCPO may be the only one in town with that equipment, but I don't know for sure.

I'm not sure I would say that WKRC is "that behind in HD broadcasting". Until recently they didn't have a reason to install the equipment necessary to carry syndicated HD programs. I think WCPO may be the only one in town with that equipment, but I don't know for sure.True although if you add in the two other issues (still don't pass DD 5.1 and can't figure out how to switch to HD properly) they really are below the curve...

Anyone that isnt broadcasting in 5.1 is definitely well, well behind!

Checked Today at 3, WLWT had Dr. Phil in HD ...

I'm not defending them, but for the newer folks, except for what Webhopper did to it(used about same amount of bandwidth as 12.2 does now) WKRC did a fine job with HD WEBN fireworks in 2002 and 2003 (especially 2002 IMO), I think they had them for a year or two before that as well, but I didn't see them. In 2002/2003 They also Ran some HD airings of Paramount's syndicated HD-One Movie Package, but (at least sometimes as I recall) with no local commercials .....

For HD fireworks, they used one of WRAL's HD truck and at least one year (2003) the HD truck CC had at the time, which was also used by ABC for MNF in 1999 and 2003 .... (There wasn't a MNF game on Monday night that weekend in 2003) ....

WKRC (and WCPO) were Very early on the air with HD, in late 98 or 99, WLWT was earliest on air in this area with DTV, putting a signal on air for their 50th aniversary in Feb 98, but they didn't get the capability to pass through NBC HD until Early 2002 .. WXIX also came up in 99 or 2000 (2000 If I recall correctly) ... The reason why this was the case was because at the time DTV transition began, Cincinnati was Market #30, and FCC had a Nov. 99 DTV on air deadline for top 4 network affiliates in Markets 11~30 (the deadline for top 4 affilates in Markets 1~10 was a bit earlier) ... All other markets/full service statons had DTV on air deadline of May 1, 2002 for commercial stations, May 1, 2003 for Non-comms, even by that time prices on equipment such as HD encoders had come way down (to 5 figures if I recall correcty ), and were also better stuff than what they had in the late 90's ...

The point of this historical story is that early DTV stations on air which also began offering HD right away (Which was the case for WKRC and WCPO -- what little HD there before Early 2002 or so) like WKRC "got" to purchase items such as early HD encoders at 6 (or possibly even 7) figure prices(Now a 5 figure item), and other equipment which as you might imagine can't do the things the (much cheaper+better) equipment nowadays (or even by 2002/2003 when most other DTV stations had to be on the air) ....

I'd imagine they'll get around to some major upgrades sooner or later (You'd think sooner especially given the fine job WCPO has been doing with HD, but who knows as long as a lot of people are watching 12 News) --- those types of things take $$$ and time .....

TWC Mystro sucks. ....Prime Time & I couldn't even change the channel now. I had to reboot the box again. I have two different remotes, so I know that they were not the problem. I don't want their digital cable anymore. I push buttons & even when it was working I'd get a slow response, if any. I've had to reboot my box several times this summer. Rebooting takes about 5 minutes. The compressed HD channels don't look that good either. The box won't work with an HDMI cable either, despite the TWC install guy encouraging me to buy one. What pisses me off is that their box isn't even needed except for "On-Demand". Digital TVs are capable of receiving program info. if TWC cared enough about their customers they would include that info. & I could get my HD channels on QAM & use my own remote, & with one less box to plug in. They just want to "rent" their box to us so that they can make even more money.

Putting up with shoddy software on a computer is one thing, but having to deal with shoddy software when watching TV is another.

Putting up with shoddy software on a computer is one thing, but having to deal with shoddy software when watching TV is another.

Well, I have to agree. And no, it's not your equipment. It happened to me tonight as well. The 5th or 6th time since being "upgraded" to that POS Mystro.

About a week ago I called their "Customer Service" number at around 11PM and got to talk to "Jim" who, from the sounds of things, must have been stationed in Banglore. When he instructed me to unplug the box to "fix" it, I went postal. Felt kinda bad about it later but damn it, we can't get to those who decide to let this crap out so our only option is to try and make the sh!t flow uphill.

Thanks to the way the splicer works, if they put it on Fox 19 (19-2), I wouldn't mind.

If it becomes popular/Makes $, it might be a good place for ATSC M/H * stream instead .....

* - Mobile DTV standard currently being developed+tested, from what I've read a M/H stream will take up about a SD subchannel's worth of bandwidth of the 19.39Mb/s payload .... last I heard it's scheduled to start rolling out Early 09' ...

Raycom is member of OMVC (Mobile DTV "supporters" so to speak), BTW ...

I haven't capped/reencoded much from WLWT, So don't know if its unusual from them, but, I was just looking at my Cap of '08 WEBN HD fireworks in Vdub (Assuming BFForTFF + seperatingfields to see if it's TFF or BFF), and noticed it's encoded BFF ..... I think that's the first time I've seen that from a 1080i ATSC broadcast, which seems to usually be encoded TFF ....

Just thought I'd give a heads up to anyone else who may doing any processing/reencoding/resizing of it(such as to 720x480i for DVD) of it using AVIsynth scripts/filters or similar and for the reencoding which require you get/keep field order "right" for fields to remain properly aligned ...

I have a quick question for you guys. I'm in the Lexington, KY broadcast area and recently put up an antenna to get Cincinnati channels. Our CBS affiliate is far worse than yours (or anyone else's for that matter, they truly suck.)

Can someone tell me if WKRC carried the men's final of the US Open? It was rain delayed to Monday. I know affiliates hate that, but ours down here basically never airs network programming if it interferes with local (they even took off the gold medal hockey game from a previous Olympics) so I was curious how KRC handled it.

For me its hard to believe that there is a CBS affiliate worse than WKRC but to answer your question, yes, they did air the the men's final of the US Open on Monday but they showed it on their CW station (12.2) with very poor video quality.

Thanks. I wouldn't have been too happy about that lol. They could have done that here and I missed it, CW is off my radar (and my set.) We have mediocre network PQ because they (WKYT) downgrade the network picture to show both CW and CBS in "HD" which of course means neither is.

For me its hard to believe that there is a CBS affiliate worse than WKRC.

I wouldn't call WKYT siginficantly "worse" than WKRC, just "different". PQ wise given the old flexicoder/some of the settings WKRC are using on it and the multicasting/etc, it's pretty much a wash IMO. In this area, for CBS HD you have to go to WBNS-DT Columbus to get something better than WHIO/WKRC or WKYT ..

Anyhow, KYT Transcodes CBS HD to 720p and as fjames noted runs CW at 720p HD as well, which indeed is a bad idea IMO .... Before they switched CW to HD though, they still did transcode for CBS HD to 720p+1 SD multicast(CW SD) worked pretty well IMO, better than WKRC's 1080i+1 SD (or webhopper) ...

Of course, both WBNS and WKYT have local HD news as well .... What also is interesting is that most other Lexington stations (exception being WTVQ), and many other stations in markets surrounding Cincinnati/Dayton (even smaller markets) have Local HD news .... And, WDKY even has 2.5 Men in HD ....

TW was supposed to pick up both SD and HD from the Big Ten Network. In Cincinnati I have located SD on TW-60. I can't find the HD channel. Did they never put it on as promised. Football is much more enjoyable in HD.

They promised the HD channel, but they never promised when.

TW was supposed to pick up both SD and HD from the Big Ten Network. In Cincinnati I have located SD on TW-60. I can't find the HD channel. Did they never put it on as promised. Football is much more enjoyable in HD.

Someone recently said they got a letter from TWC saying they would start using SDV (switched digital video) on Oct 3, so maybe they will add it then.

I'm in a former Adelphia area, and have not received any notice of this change -- I wonder if they will switch it on in this area at the same time.

Is the Browns game being broadcast OTA from either cincy or dayton? My cable/power are both out, but I have a generator. I could go buy rabbit ears, but not sure if the local stations have power to broadcast. Anyone know?

Is the Browns game being broadcast OTA from either cincy or dayton? My cable/power are both out, but I have a generator. I could go buy rabbit ears, but not sure if the local stations have power to broadcast. Anyone know?

Up in HD on WLWT and WDTN... Power out here as well... using laptop with car power adapter and USB HD tuner plugged into my antenna, which by the way took a HUGE beating today!

Up in HD on WLWT and WDTN... Power out here as well... using laptop with car power adapter and USH HD tuner plugged into my antenna, which by the way took a HUGE beating today!

Thanks for the info. But I just remembered... all stores are closed due to no power. :o I lost my rabbit ears in a recent move, and never replaced them. Stupid me.

[QUOTE=Nitewatchman;14649238]I wouldn't call WKYT siginficantly "worse" than WKRC, just "different". PQ wise given the old flexicoder/some of the settings WKRC are using on it and the multicasting/etc, it's pretty much a wash IMO. In this area, for CBS HD you have to go to WBNS-DT Columbus to get something better than WHIO/WKRC or WKYT ..



I'm curious what settings WKRC could change on their Flexicoder to improve PQ.

I'm curious what settings WKRC could change on their Flexicoder to improve PQ.I don't think they could do much beyond taking bits from the null packet transmission and applying it to the HD feed. However, all this might gain you is half a megabit per second.

I learned from WWMT-DT in Grand Rapids, MI that with one HD and one SD subchannel, 18 Mbps of the 19.4 Mbps stream should always be used for video transmission. The other 1.4 Mbps would be for audio, PSIP, and nulls.

14 WPTO, 54 WKET, 48 CET, 43, 25 and its 38 rebuild analog tower since they are off the air if it was damaged from the wind stor?

14 WPTO, 54 WKET, 48 CET, 43, 25 and its 38 rebuild analog tower since they are off the air if it was damaged from the wind stor?

Last night I noted the following were off the air (or so weak that I couldn't pick up even a trace of them):

14 WPTO (analog and digital)
16 WPTD (analog and digital)
48 WCET (analog and digital)
25 WOTH
38 WBQC
22 WKEF (digital out -- analog OK)
54 WCVN (analog out -- digital OK)

My guess for the reason for the outages is power because most if not all of them broadcast from towers that are currently being used by other stations.

WCVN analog is off due to commercial power failure. The site is on emergency power.

Someone recently said they got a letter from TWC saying they would start using SDV (switched digital video) on Oct 3, so maybe they will add it then.

I'm in a former Adelphia area, and have not received any notice of this change -- I wonder if they will switch it on in this area at the same time.

I have never heard of switched digital. I know about analog and digital and HD which is a better form of digital but never switched digital. What now? Is not the average home owner confused enough?

switched digital video is a cable company thing -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_video

switched digital video is a cable company thing -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_video

Thanks. Your reference answered my questions. Very interesting.

I'm curious what settings WKRC could change on their Flexicoder to improve PQ.

Setting. I don't think there is more than 1 is there ;) ... My mistake onadding the "s" in my earlier post....

I believe Adaptive Prefiltering should be off. As, unless it's something else causing the issue, it appears to (often when I've checked) be on, causing significant blurring at times, particuarly at scene changes ....

Update: Here is some reading on the issue(there are several references to it earlier in this thread, BTW) for you and mikemikeb in "DC" :

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3802384#post3802384

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11921827&postcount=8393

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=822863

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=822863

WCVN analog is off due to commercial power failure. The site is on emergency power.

Special thanks to All the stations which were able to remain (or get back on) on air during power outage so far. And also special thanks to WCPO for the storm Coverage Sunday Afternoon ...

... Some of us watch OTA via Battery powered sets or DTV converters(err, UPS powered DTV converters in my case) ...

Right now, In Cincy/Dayton only WWRD-LP Dayton, WPTO analog, WCET(anal
og+digital which has been down any time I've checked Since Sunday Evening) are down ...

Anyhow, Power wise, We have been very lucky here, in a very localized fashion (neighbors not far away are running on generators) --- So far, have Only lost power here between about 3:30pm~9:30pm Sunday, although in one spot several large trees are still laying/hanging on the mains such that they are crossed and only a few feet apart .... Just got landline (Phone and net connection) back this afternoon however ...

Last night I noted the following were off the air (or so weak that I couldn't pick up even a trace of them):


Most of my time the past couple of days has involved operating a chainsaw(or similar tasks). But, I have had time to notice per AGC readings on one of my receivers(and the quality of the analog signals involved), the stations on air seem to be operating at the usual power levels, or perhaps nearly so ..

If so, and others besides WCVN/WCPO-* have been running on generators --- particuarly where the analog+digitals are both up (and one or both are UHF) -- I think That's pretty amazing, especially given the power requirements of the blow-torch UHF's ...

* - Note as of last night WCPO mentioned they were, although I'm not sure if that was for just the studio or the Xmtr as well -- Two VHF transmitters of course.

For instance With WCET down throughout the outage so far(if it's power issue which probably seems most likely), one might assume(with the cautions necessary for such assumptions) that co-located WLWT Transmitters would be running on generators (a really BIG one I'd think for the DT) as well ....

Update: Just checked Jack Dominic's Blog, which says CET OTA signal is down because of power outage (and it also mentioned WLWT has backup generator ) :

http://cet-techinfo.blogspot.com/



My guess for the reason for the outages is power because most if not all of them broadcast from towers that are currently being used by other stations.


I think it's been a while since we've seen a lot of stations down due to power outages. When it has happened in the past(say in last 10 years or so), due to issues from bad weather from thunderstorms they aren't typically down that long. But actually, I recall several occasions when many more of the stations have been down(particuarly involving the "big 4" affiliates) vs. the situation over the past few days. As(again, haven't had much chance to watch or monitor TV signals) I haven't seen WLWT/WCPO/WKRC/WXIX or WDTN/WHIO analogs or digitals down ... As your earlier report also indicated concerning WKEF-DT, WKEF-DT/WRGT-DT were down Mon~tue (WRGT-DT came back up first) .... but their analogs were on air ...

BTW, don't know if anyone else noticed, But WCVN-DT transmitter has remained on air throughout, although Sunday afternoon/evening~Early Mon morning or so there was nothing decodable (Assumed they lost STL) .... At times it has been the only non-comm on air, with WCVN analog coming up sometime This afternoon/evening ....

My profession is meteorology. That was a "once in a lifetime" type of wind-storm. It has already produced the most insurance claims around here since the 1913 flood...almost 100 years ago. Winds were sustained between 50-60 mph with gusts over 80 mph. Unlike a thunderstorm outbreak where high winds are fairly localized, these winds were widespread across the entire tri-state (and beyond). Very impressive!

I still have no power. :(

My profession is meteorology. That was a "once in a lifetime" type of wind-storm. It has already produced the most insurance claims around here since the 1913 flood...almost 100 years ago. Winds were sustained between 50-60 mph with gusts over 80 mph. Unlike a thunderstorm outbreak where high winds are fairly localized, these winds were widespread across the entire tri-state (and beyond). Very impressive!

I still have no power. :(

Which should give us all a better appreciation of the hurricanes we lazily watch on TV from hundreds of miles away. Because our sustained winds were "only" middle-of-the-road tropical storm force, with gusts up to "just" category 1 hurricane level.

Of course, on the coasts, years of storms have cleared most "weak" trees (survival of the fittest, if you will) and they wouldn't have as many problems from any single storm as we did.

Thankfully I only lost power for about 25 hours (3pm Sun - 4 pm Mon).... and my office was without power until today (two days off, woohoo!). You guys and your "watching TV on a battery" kill me. :) I just fired up the crank-powered emergency radio and read a book by candlelight. Very relaxing.

Can we get a "thank the Lord" that it wasn't 90 degrees outside??? :D

Good news! WCET now is back on the air.

KET Network Center lost power on Sunday and our UPS had failed after the last storm so it was a while getting the system back alive.

Hopefully soon we'll get our new UPS online...

William

Wish I had an annemometer reading from here as gusts broke several nearby(healthy) trees in 1/2 about 1/2 way up. Including a healthy ~30FT tall Osage-orange("Hedgeapple") about 30FT away from my TV antennas/tower(Which weathered the storm just fine, BTW) ...

Oh, Forgot to mention, Noticed "The Insider" was HD Sunday night after SOAS on WCPO, even though both were delayed as 11pm news went past 11:35 ...


You guys and your "watching TV on a battery" kill me. I just fired up the crank-powered emergency radio and read a book by candlelight. Very relaxing.


I enjoy silence while reading, and prefer Oil Lamps to candles or flashlights for reading/writing at night w/o electric lights ;) .

Anyway, I think both Radio And TV can be useful during power outages/emergenecies. Not an issue for this storm, but as just one example for TV you can't "see" weather radar display on a radio ...

Anyhow, I was watching NASCAR race and a bit of Bengals Game Sunday afternoon, when the power went out, in addition to the WCPO storm coverage, it was nice to be able to pull out the handheld TV(analog only) and watch the end of race (On WKEF) and a bit more of the game .... Later in evening I hooked up the DTV converter to UPS (and to a 5" B&W portable which I powered via a 12V power source) more as a pre-transition test, shortly afterwards the power came back up ....

Alright, admit it, Jeff - did you buy all of that stuff for Y2K? :D

I bought a UPS for my HTPC server PC - a low-end model that gives me about 30-45 minutes of power - specifically to avoid the little quick-blip power dropouts that we sometimes get in storms (where power is off for just a second). We had about 5 of those Sunday afternoon, and I was really glad I had bought it (though I still had to wait for the Extender at the TV to reboot, which takes about a minute). But once the power went off "for good" (after about 10-15 minutes, I gave up on it returning), I went down to the basement and just shut everything off, and listened to the remainder of the Bengals game on the radio (shouldn't have bothered :( )

Alright, admit it, Jeff - did you buy all of that stuff for Y2K? :D


Not a chance. It was a "non-event" just as I knew it would be ...

never lost power here :) - although the phone (zoomtown) went dead from sunday night at 10:30pm until this afternoon.. oh well.. would rather have juice then phone! Roof lost a few shingles.. but the antenna farm on the roof is still standing!

Normally I watch NBC news on TW-905 since it is HD. I heard that CBS was now HD and switched to TW-912 only so see the lead-in saying HD but only seeing an SD transmission from WKRC. What gives? Their evening shows are in HD. Why can 't WKRC carry the Evening News with Katy in HD also.

I switched to WHIO and a poor picture because of my small cheap antenna but I did verify that the broadcast was indeed in HD. What's up with WKRC and their HD?

Also noticed that ABC news was in HD on TW-909.

8:00PM and WKRC evening show "Ghost Whisperer" which is HD is also transmitting SD.
Their equipment must be down or the engineers are asleep at the switch and haven't changed over since the 6 o'clock news. Bummer.
I need a better antenna to watch WHIO.

I think they are wanting to run the news ticker, is the reason why they haven't shown any CBS programming in HD for the last few nights. WKRC along with Fox19 are not able to run the news ticker during HD programming.

I think they are wanting to run the news ticker, is the reason why they haven't shown any CBS programming in HD for the last few nights. WKRC along with Fox19 are not able to run the news ticker during HD programming.

Yes, that is the reason for no HD lately (when the ticker is running). I can understand the need for information during the days following the power outage but you would think, by now, that WXIX and WKRC would have bought whatever hardware they need to show HD and provide information. I hope both stations correct the problem in the next few months or else this winter (with all the school snow closings) we are going to be stuck with a lot of SD evening programming.

I'd imagine they'll get around to some major upgrades sooner or later (You'd think sooner especially given the fine job WCPO has been doing with HD, but who knows as long as a lot of people are watching 12 News) --- those types of things take $$$ and time .....

As a lurker here, I'm curious why all 3 Columbus news departments are HD and 16:9 in the field, but not in Cincy or Dayton.

I never realized Columbus was such a bastion of cutting edge TV. WBNS being an oddity in that it is locally-owned and always first in the market is understandable, WCMH is also understandable as it is the #2 most important station (next to WFLA) in the Media General group. But when even Sinclair and WSYX beats you guys, that is simply unbelievable. WCMH and WSYX both invested in new news sets (WBNS remodeled theirs, but WSYX's new set really rocks.) WSYX is probably the most important station to Sinclair, their de facto "flagship" after Baltimore, but WSYX has been the laggard in Columbus for 60 years, back to when the penny-pinching Tafts used to own the station!

I'm surprised WKRC isn't more aggressive about protecting their number one ranking. But I guess that's how things go when you are corporately-owned these days?

Is it just my DVR or is the HD broadcast of the Ryder cup on NBC TWCinci ch. 905 utter garbage, audio dropouts and jerky video?

Hello everyone! I'm new here to both this forum AND Cincinnati. I just moved here from CT from work and immediately bought myself a 52" hdtv, and set up TWC.

I have to say, I've used two other cable providers on a regular basis before, Cablevision in CT, and Cox in RI. Compared to them, TWC's HD selection is APPALLING. Like really, they should be ashamed of themselves.

A number of channels that i'm accustomed to watching are not available in HD, but most importantly there is one channel that is not available AT ALL.

so please, tell me, where is the VS. network? i know other TW areas have this, i've seen it. granted, it's not a great network, but they do carry hockey games (i know, probably not a whole lot hockey fans in cincy, or actually, the country) Speaking of which, does anyone have NHL center Ice? how many games are usually in HD (gotta see my New York Rangers)

also, their pricing structure is a joke. most channels that were included in basic HD service back east, they charge a premium for, like MOJOHD (greatest network ever)

does anyone know anything about TWC expanding their channel lineup? they really need to step it up to be compared to other cable providers, they literally have less than half of the HD channels that I've seen before.

Gotta say, not impressed so far....

what I am impressed with is this forum, I've spent the last hour just catching up on the discussions that go on here, seems like a great place for info, glad i found it!

Greetings 15step!

I agree about TWC's horrible HD selection here in Cincy. Just wanted to let you know to not get too attached to Mojo because rumor has it it's ready to go under...

I think they are wanting to run the news ticker, is the reason why they haven't shown any CBS programming in HD for the last few nights. WKRC along with Fox19 are not able to run the news ticker during HD programming.

The Bengals are on CBS (TW912) in HD today. I would hope that WKRC will finally stop that news crawler that interferes with the HD transmission. Football is meant to be seen in HD.If not, I hope my reception is better today and I can pick it up on WHIO.

I noticed that WKRC is doing their local newscast from the newsroom instead of the news studio. On one newscast it was mentioned that "exciting changes" were coming. I'm sure that means that a new set is coming but I wonder if the studio is being equipped to broadcast the news in HD? To me it sure would make a lot of sense that if you are going to spend the money for a new set that you upgrade the equipment (cameras, control room) to HD to show off that new set.

Has anyone heard anything?

I noticed that WKRC is doing their local newscast from the newsroom instead of the news studio. On one newscast it was mentioned that "exciting changes" were coming. I'm sure that means that a new set is coming but I wonder if the studio is being equipped to broadcast the news in HD? To me it sure would make a lot of sense that if you are going to spend the money for a new set that you upgrade the equipment (cameras, control room) to HD to show off that new set.

Has anyone heard anything?

Won't matter much if they continue to run stuff at the bottom of the screen. (ie. news alerts, school closings etc) They cut out the HD.

so please, tell me, where is the VS. network?

It's available on DirecTV and Dish Network. I seem to remember INHD (now MOJO?) used to carry some of the games on Vs., but I doubt that's happening anymore.


does anyone know anything about TWC expanding their channel lineup? they really need to step it up to be compared to other cable providers, they literally have less than half of the HD channels that I've seen before.

IIRC TWC Cincinnati is working on adding SDV which should allow for more HD channels.

Since I didn't get a chance to post the NFL games this week, a quick update... Three games on now at 4pm... Steelers at Eagles on WKRC, New Orleans at Denver on WXIX, and Browns at Baltimore on WHIO. WHIO is currently SD though...

I noticed that WKRC is doing their local newscast from the newsroom instead of the news studio. On one newscast it was mentioned that "exciting changes" were coming. I'm sure that means that a new set is coming but I wonder if the studio is being equipped to broadcast the news in HD? To me it sure would make a lot of sense that if you are going to spend the money for a new set that you upgrade the equipment (cameras, control room) to HD to show off that new set.

Has anyone heard anything?


It would be great if they did. For now i'll be happy with 5.1 DD and their syndication in HD.

WHIO is currently SD though...

So much for ALL games being in HD this year...

So much for ALL games being in HD this year...
They ARE all in HD. WHIO won't flip the switch! 937-259-2237

Yeah, seeing the game in HD on D* right now. Baltimore player not moving, not good.

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 4 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cleveland at Cincinnati
Kevin Harlan and Rich Gannon

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) Green Bay at Tampa Bay*
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Washington at Dallas
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman


Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Philadelphia at Chicago
Al Michaels, John Madden


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Baltimore at Pittsburgh+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser)


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers


Notes:
1pm FOX game is blacked out on WXIX as Bengals are playing at home against Cleveland in a sell out. Green Bay at Tampa Bay can be seen on WRGT Dayton.

Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

WCET is currently off the air. According to WKRC.com a wall fell over and knocked out power in the West End:

A wall fell on some electrical switch gear this morning, knocking out power to more than 2000 Duke customers in the West End. It happened just before 9 a.m.

Police tell us that workers demolishing the old Taft High School at Ezzard Charles Drive and Central Parkway (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=EZZARD+CHARLES+AND+%5Ccentral+parkway,+cincinnati&sll=39.113413,-84.522285&sspn=0.016283,0.027466&ie=UTF8&ll=39.109717,-84.520161&spn=0.008142,0.013733&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr) were tearing down a wall when the bricks fell in an unexpected direction, onto the switch gear.

2100 customers are out of power, including WVXU Radio, WCET-TV, WGUC radio and the Cincinnati Public School's Virtual High School, the Findlay Market Campus of Chatfield College, a brewery and several other businesses. Also closed are afternoon classes of CHCCAA Headstart.

The Virtual high school has canceled it's afternoon session. WVXU and WCET are off the air. WGUC is working on battery power.

Duke says it's workers are trying to reroute power and get everyone back online.

WCET is currently off the air. According to WKRC.com a wall fell over and knocked out power in the West End:
Nice. Because, ya know... we haven't had enough power outages in the last few weeks. :rolleyes:

i didnt have any :)

I have insight cable here in NKY, last night WLWT 7.1 and 7.2 were off-air. Was that just an insight problem.

I have insight cable here in NKY, last night WLWT 7.1 and 7.2 were off-air. Was that just an insight problem.

Assuming you mean 5-1 and 5-2, I watched The Office and ER with no issues OTA.

Assuming you mean 5-1 and 5-2, I watched The Office and ER with no issues OTA.

Ditto...

Does anyone know why WKRC-DT (12.1) doesn't broadcast in 5.1? It only shows up as Stereo. All of the other local stations that broadcast in HD broadcast 5.1. I'm a little confused. I thought it was my system, until I bought another TV. It shows Stereo as well and not Surround. Thanks.

Does anyone know why WKRC-DT (12.1) doesn't broadcast in 5.1? It only shows up as Stereo. All of the other local stations that broadcast in HD broadcast 5.1. I'm a little confused. I thought it was my system, until I bought another TV. It shows Stereo as well and not Surround. Thanks.They don't have the equipment to pass through the 5.1 for HD programming. I'm sure one day they will upgrade, but who knows when...

My understanding is that it's something of a consequence of them being relatively early adopters of HD - so the equipment back then wasn't so good, and now they really need a compelete refresh (both of the picture encoder, and audio module), which of course isn't cheap. With the station changing owners recently, who know what may happen...

I'm just glad it wasn't on my end. I've looked thru this thread and didn't see anything about their lack of 5.1. Perhaps I missed something. Thanks again for the info.

Assuming you mean 5-1 and 5-2, I watched The Office and ER with no issues OTA.

Yes sorry i did mean 5.1 and 5.2, here on Insight they are gone.

Crackel sound back on WKRC 12.1 digital side not on analog side. I sent a email to the Engineering Department about it.

Greetings,

I have owned the following antenna for the last few years (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&parentPage=family) it has served its purpose for getting all of the local channels except WCPO. I went so far as putting this antenna in an extra room on my second floor on a window sill in hopes I would get WCPO. Now, I can tune WCPO mind you, but when I do, I'm lucky if I get any other channels. I'm certain it is a function of this crappy antenna. I am hoping to get some input on a better quality antenna which I can either conceal in this extra room, or mount in a crawlspace or worst case, the attic.

My house is brick & my roof is slate, if this has any bearing on reception. Also, there are no buildings, steeples, towers, or other structures taller than four stories within 4 blocks. I should have a unobstructed shot toward the local towers from my location. I run a 100 ft quality rg6 cable from monoprice split to two vbox catseye atsc tuners in media center.

I am looking at the "Terrestrial Digital DB2" and have seen the good reviews, but I want to be sure before I make the plunge. Also, I would like to get the Dayton CW affiliate if possible without having to roof mount.

Thank you in advance for reading this!

Ryan

I would like to get the Dayton CW affiliate if possible without having to roof mount.
Where are you located?

Well no matter what you decide to do...you DO NOT want to put the antenna in a crawl space...

Jimp: Westwood.

Splicer: Why? (I must be dense)

Also, I did some more research on WBDT, and it doesn't look like my odds are very good unless I get a really good antenna and possibly a join-tenna. And seeing that WCPO is VHF, It might just be a matter of adjusting my rabbit ears / gain... I will investigate tonight.

Jimp: Westwood.

Splicer: Why? (I must be dense)

Also, I did some more research on WBDT, and it doesn't look like my odds are very good unless I get a really good antenna
Correct.
and possibly a join-tenna. ?? possibly could be part of your overall solution but we'd have to discuss that further.
And seeing that WCPO is VHF, It might just be a matter of adjusting my rabbit ears / gain... I will investigate tonight.Correct.

I get WBDT-DT with a small/medium sized VHF/UHF combo on my roof, in Sharonville. With you being that far south you'll need a high gain UHF antenna on your roof directed at Dayton in order to receive WBDT-DT. Just so you know, strong UHF antennas don't have to be nearly as big as VHF antennas...

Because you want the antenna as high as is reasonable for the best possible reception...Having an antenna below ground level is akin to having no antenna at all as your reception would be minimal at best...

I have crawl spaces on the second floor through half door access points. But I get what you are saying Splicer.

Anyways, I solved my WCPO issue completely. I cant believe I never knew anything about rabbit ears until today, lol! Anyways, thanks to some searching on google for wcpo and rabbit ears, Nitewatchman suggested someone follow this link: http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html
So I did. I set my rabbit ears up horizontally @ about 29" to tune for channel 10 and bingo, I now have WCPO, crisp and clear.

Maybe if Im fealing ambitious, I will get a join-tenna and a uni-directional amplified roof mount and aim toward Dayton to try and receive WBDT.

Thanks much for the quick replies, you guys Rock!

This is fairly off-topic, but with hockey season near, it looks like TW Cincy is finally adding Versus. It's there now at channel 162, though it's not listed in the guide and isn't broadcasting right now. I would say "hopefully we'll get Versus HD" but it's TWC and that would just be a silly wish.

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC) Tennessee at Baltimore
Ian Eagle, Solomon Wilcots

1pm CBS (7 WHIO) Indianapolis at Houston*
Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Washington at Philadelphia
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Dallas
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms


Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Pittsburgh at Jacksonville
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Minnesota at New Orleans+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya)


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers


Notes:
Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Not to be a downer, but you are going to have a hard time getting Dayton CW without a large directional antenna on a tall mast. I live just a bit south of Jim, and on a hill, but I have my antenna in my attic (Jim's is outdoor). I get all the other Dayton stations perfectly fine (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, PBS), but I can not get CW. And you are farther away from Dayton's towers than we are.

It's always worth trying - antenna reception is a strange thing - but don't hold your breath on any indoor antenna being able to pull it in.

Good luck!

TWC cinci customers turn your box to channel 1222 and it is Big Ten Network HD on demand but it is not yet available. You can get the channel but there is no programming. Just thought I would let everyone know. Also if you turn it to channel 1800, it looks like there are a bunch of test channels for the sdv rollout. So much for it going live on the 3rd, but at least is is on the horizon...

nothing here in Fairfield on TWC 1222.

nothing here in Fairfield on TWC 1222.

Did you try turning it to the channel or are you just looking at the guide? It is not on the guide, but if I turn it to the channel it exists. Same thing with the channels around 1800 that are sdv test channels. Not on the guide, but are there if you turn it to the channel.

Nup, manually entered it. Nothing.
I never use the guide, very clumsy IMO.

Thats strange, maybe you have a different channel lineup than I do. I am in middletown and its on mine. When I lived around UC I had the same channel lineup I have now so I just assumed it was the same for all TW cincy customers. I bet its on there somewhere though. Doesnt matter as it has no programming available yet. Just thought it was interesting that I could access the channel.

Anyone got any new news on the status of the sdv rollout in cincy? Or when Big Ten HD goes live?

Im desperate for more HD channels!

I heard the bad audio crackling on 12.1 yesterday during the early (1pm) NFL game. It sounded like when you have the "audio input level" too high on a component in a stereo system, and it maxes out. It was pretty annoying.

I did not watch much of that game (just had it on for a few minutes), but when I watched the Bengals at 4 pm, I did not notice the crackling, so they must have done something about it.

the unit was crackle (sp?) free last night

I heard the bad audio crackling on 12.1 yesterday during the early (1pm) NFL game. It sounded like when you have the "audio input level" too high on a component in a stereo system, and it maxes out. It was pretty annoying.

I did not watch much of that game (just had it on for a few minutes), but when I watched the Bengals at 4 pm, I did not notice the crackling, so they must have done something about it.

It was there on WHIO as well as WKRC...WHIO for the Colts game...which BTW was absolutely one of the BEST games I have seen ever...And WKRC foir the Bengals game...but not as bad as the Colts game...

For those who don't browse the programming area much, Just ran across some news of interest :

NBC Shutting Down Weather Plus (http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/10/nbc_shutting_down_weather_plus.php)

For those who don't browse the programming area much, Just ran across some news of interest :

NBC Shutting Down Weather Plus (http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/10/nbc_shutting_down_weather_plus.php)

Good news in this market. We didn't need 2 Weather sub-channels. I hope they'll put some entertainment on 5-2.

In my opinion we don't need ANY subchannels along side 1080i HD. I hope 5-2 is history (I know, wishful thinking). Shop NBC anyone ?

Shop NBC anyone ?Unlikely. NBC will probably want to keep that as a cable/sat exclusive.

Unlikely. NBC will probably want to keep that as a cable/sat exclusive.

Better tell WQEX and KBCB about that!

- Trip

Better tell WQEX and KBCB about that!

- Trip

If broadcasters start using their licenses in this fashion (like broadcasting shopping subchannels), I say revoke the licenses and reclaim the bandwidth (e.g., use the spectrum for free broadband services for everyone). The public allows the use of its airwaives because of the alleged public service provided by the broadcasters. OTA TV is already teetering on the edge of whether the public service provided justifies the use of the spectrum.

If broadcasters start using their licenses in this fashion (like broadcasting shopping subchannels), I say revoke the licenses and reclaim the bandwidth (e.g., use the spectrum for free broadband services for everyone). The public allows the use of its airwaives because of the alleged public service provided by the broadcasters. OTA TV is already teetering on the edge of whether the public service provided justifies the use of the spectrum.

(I forgot, WWDP is also a ShopNBC affiliate)

Um, stations have been doing this for years. At its height, Shop at Home had five owned stations, HSN had like 15. Even today, many stations still air wall to wall or almost wall to wall infomercials outside of bare requirements. WRNN, WMCN, WOAC, WJFB, WRAY, and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

- Trip

(I forgot, WWDP is also a ShopNBC affiliate)

Um, stations have been doing this for years. At its height, Shop at Home had five owned stations, HSN had like 15. Even today, many stations still air wall to wall or almost wall to wall infomercials outside of bare requirements. WRNN, WMCN, WOAC, WJFB, WRAY, and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

- Trip

An absolute waste of a limited resource. The licenses should be revoked. Take the bandwidth and turn it in to free wireless broadband.

Take the bandwidth and turn it in to free wireless broadband.Who are you suggesting should pay for this?

I hope they'll put some entertainment on 5-2.

I hope so too but I fear that it will become like 19.2 (a blank slate) or worse (a shopping channel). Except for the PBS stations and WCPO (who does a great job on 9.2 with local weather) the local stations sure aren't doing much with their subchannels. WKRC is putting all their junk (and some news programs which are mostly political ads for the next month) on 12.2. The ratings for the CW are so low it might not be around next September.

It will be interesting to see if things change once the analog stations shutdown.

Who are you suggesting should pay for this?

Google had offered to provide wireless broadband for a number of municipalities without charge (presumably there would be an advertising component). A number of municipalities have already done it on their own accord (with taxpayer support). Seems like a comparatively good use of taxpayer money to me -- provide families and their children with limited means the opportunity to access the vast sources of information on the internet.

Google had offered to provide wireless broadband for a number of municipalities without charge (presumably there would be an advertising component). A number of municipalities have already done it on their own accord (with taxpayer support). Seems like a comparatively good use of taxpayer money to me -- provide families and their children with limited means the opportunity to access the vast sources of information on the internet.
I disagree... I don't want my tax dollars going to subsidize someone else's access to the internet, especially if you're talking about taking away access to television stations that provide entertainment and public service values.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that if a station puts up a shopping network on a sub-channel, that the FCC should revoke their entire license to broadcast. That seems rather extreme to me, as the original service would still exist, not to mention the sub channels still have to meet FCC requirements for E/I programming anyway (that's why you saw animal shows and other educational programming on The Tube on Saturday mornings).

I'm not saying I want a shopping channel (I certainly don't). But I don't think that if a station did that it would be enough to "revoke" their license to broadcast.

OTA TV is already teetering on the edge of whether the public service provided justifies the use of the spectrum.
You might want to think twice before you go spouting that idea in a forum that has a LOT of OTA-only people.

Or, another way of saying it, "Says you".

You go ahead and keep paying $50-$150 per month for lower-quality "HD", on cable/sat-company STBs that have all sorts of technical glitches, and good luck connecting with outsourced customer service operators when you have those problems. Jim, Jeff, and the rest of us here will take our clean, uncompressed, OTA HD for free, thank you very much.

And no, I don't miss ESPN at all.

And no, I don't miss ESPN at all.

I'll second that. Well, I missed it once this year, but $20 at the local watering-hole for an evening of football was a LOT less than a month of pay TV.

When these channels have Live events, such as sports, they should be able to put their regular programming on their sub channel. For instance the World Series is coming up on Ch. 19. We could then still watch the 10 O'clock News every night on 19-2.

The Public And Broadcasting : How to Get the Most Service from Your Local Station - Revised July 2008 - Prepared by: The Media Bureau, Federal Communications Commission, Washington, D.C.
(http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/decdoc/public_and_broadcasting.html)

You might want to think twice before you go spouting that idea in a forum that has a LOT of OTA-only people.

Or, another way of saying it, "Says you".

You go ahead and keep paying $50-$150 per month for lower-quality "HD", on cable/sat-company STBs that have all sorts of technical glitches, and good luck connecting with outsourced customer service operators when you have those problems. Jim, Jeff, and the rest of us here will take our clean, uncompressed, OTA HD for free, thank you very much.

And no, I don't miss ESPN at all.

I get my OTA for free as well, thank you very much. I also prefer "clean, uncompressed" HD. Thats why I pull in WBNS in Columbus for CBS programming.

As the link above indicates, broadcasters have obligations to the public.

"In exchange for obtaining a valuable license to operate a broadcast station using the public airwaves, each radio and television licensee is required by law to operate its station in the 'public interest, convenience and necessity.' This means that it must air programming that is responsive to the needs and problems of its local community of license.

To do so, each station licensee must affirmatively identify those needs and problems and then specifically treat those local matters that it deems to be significant in the news, public affairs, political and other programming that it airs."

So yes, I have a problem with broadcasters diluting the quality of network programming by utlizing a public resource to put on 24x7 shopping subchannels. But if you want shopping subchannels then (and the resultant loss in the picture quality of the main subchannel) go for it. You can have all the free uncompressed OTA shopping channels that you can handle. But you tell me how a 24x7 shopping channel is broadcasting in the public interest. I simply think that if broadcasters choose to use their licenses in such a matter, the licenses should be revoked. And if a pattern develops where such practices are allowed by the FCC, then I think we need to consider our priorities and consider reallocating the spectrum to maximize its benefit (e.g., reducing the bandwidth available to broadcasters and reallocating it for free interent).

There are some programs I watch for free OTA. But let's face it, some of the best programming out there isn't available OTA these days. Some quick examples come to mind: "Planet Earth" and "When We Left Earth" on the Discovery networks. Last time I checked, the quality of this programming meet or beat the "uncompressed" PBS content on WCET, WCPO, WPTD, etc.

Instead, our free OTA broadcasters choose to air programs like the Jerry Springer Show. Are we better off because Jerry Springer is available for free to everyone? Now to be fair, Jerry Springer and its progeny is probably the worst of the worst. But I do have concerns about some of the violence in network programming these days. Looking at the big picture, I question exactly how much value we are getting by allowing broadcasters to use our public airwaves. Is it possible that there is a better use for our broadcast spectrum?

I draw the line at shopping subchannels. Where do you draw the line? Or would you eliminate the public interest requirement altogether?

P.S. Thank you Jeff for posting the link. Also, just for the record, I have had DBS service for over a year without any major problems.

I draw the line at shopping subchannels. Where do you draw the line? Or would you eliminate the public interest requirement altogether?
I do not want a shopping subchannel. I will not support it and will do anything I can to help keep it from happening. However, it's important to keep in mind that it's very easy to make the argument that adding a shopping subchannel does not remove any of the public service that is already being provided on the main channel. You can argue that it will reduce picture quality, but I don't believe there is currently anything in the rules that says a certain amount of bandwidth must be dedicated to this programming.

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at NY Jets
Dick Enberg, Randy Cross, Dan Fouts

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Chicago at Atlanta
Thom Brennaman, Brian Billick

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Dallas at Arizona
Dick Stockton, Troy Aikman


Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – New England at San Diego
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – NY Giants at Cleveland+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya)


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers (none this week)


Notes:
Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

skylab,

I read your original post - specifically the line I quoted - as you being one of those techno-geek snobs who thinks that there is no use for OTA (that all "worthwhile" television is only available through cable/sat), and who feels no remorse at paying ridiculous amounts of money every month to have every channel available due to a need to have all of the latest electronic everything available. I see that you are not, and that I misread your intent. Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I agree with what you say.

On that note, it does blow me away when I see on some of these forums where people have DirecTV and cable, two or three DVRs on each system, and a HTPC setup with like 3 TBs of recorded programming, and watch on about 12 HDTVs in their house. I wonder when was the last time they breathed actual outdoor air. :D

FYI - Time Warner will be notifying customers beginning October 8 that their rates are going up for the November 2008 billing cycle. The basic cable tier charge changes from $9.60 to $10.56 Standard tier rate goes from $42.02 to $46.16. The equipment charge remains at $7.52 Time Warner also notes that 50% of their customers will not see a rate hike.

FYI - Time Warner will be notifying customers beginning October 8 that their rates are going up for the November 2008 billing cycle. The basic cable tier charge changes from $9.60 to $10.56 Standard tier rate goes from $42.02 to $46.16. ... Time Warner also notes that 50% of their customers will not see a rate hike.

So it sounds to me like ~50% of TWC customers are digital cable subscribers and/or have contracted rates. That's interesting information.

Apparently Time Warner is adding a few HD channels as well. Got a notice in the mail yesterday about the rate increase and channel additions

ABC Family HD
Discovery HD
Disney HD
Palladia HD

Got my TW bill yesterday and no notice of a rate increase or added channels...However my bill was raised $5...Funny actually...I called and complained and just wanted my normal pricing...Walked away with a 2 year guarantee that was $5 less than I had been paying for the same service...So that worked out well I'd say... :D

Got my TW bill yesterday and no notice of a rate increase or added channels...However my bill was raised $5...Funny actually...I called and complained and just wanted my normal pricing...Walked away with a 2 year guarantee that was $5 less than I had been paying for the same service...So that worked out well I'd say... :D

What's your early termination fee?

What's your early termination fee?

Nada...:D

Nada...:D

Sorry to say that from what I'm reading on TWC's website, if you don't cancel this within 60 days you're officially contracted with TWC for the rest of the two years or you're subject to an early termination fee of up to $150. Also, I'm now seeing that you're $5 discount is only for one year of your two year agreement.

Advertised “Price Lock Guarantee” offer includes a two year service agreement. Price includes $5 monthly discount in months 1-12. If you decide to cancel or downgrade your package services before the end of commitment period, you will be subject to an early termination fee of up to $150. The early termination fee is not applicable if any changes are made during the first 60 days after you sign up for the program. A two year service agreement is not required, however the advertised price will increase $5.00.

Nope...From speaking to the CSR...My rate is for 2 years...This is the reason they said it increased to begin with...Because it had been 1 year since the agreement had beenn made...Actually it has been 1 1/2 years...But the original agreement was for 2 years...Told them the old bait and switch won't fly with me...CSR said she'd take care of it and voila!!! 2 years fixed pricing...IF after 12 months they want to try to raise it again I'll tell them the same thing...I already have the minimal service available for TV and internet...and I only have the TV because it makes the internet price cheaper than without TV...With TV added it is still cheaper!!! So I am not concerned...;)

Do yourself a favor and listen to Terry or you can take the CSR reps word for it!

lol

Tony

I work cable...I'll take my chances...LMAO...

Don't know if this has ever been posted. It is clever and deals with an elderly lady attempting to hook up her analog to digital box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhTSaaREYag

That is some funny stuff!!!

Is it me or is channel 12's audio worse than normal? Watching Big Bang Theory on the HD feed. I know they don't have all the audio equipment that the others have, but it sounds worse than normal tonight. Channel 5 is fine.

The audio sounds ok right now on How I Met Your Mother so they must have fixed the problem. I hope once they finish the new Local 12 news set, which is rumored to be HD they will finally upgrade to DD 5.1

The Big Bang Theory audio issue wasn't local.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14858944#post14858944

WKRC HD News is coming this year. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14855302#post14855302)

WKRC HD News is coming this year. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14855302#post14855302)

All that article says is that WKRC is getting HD cameras. That still puts them a long way from having a HD production environment.

terryfoster, read the linked article more carefully.

The company ... is first taking delivery of the new JVC units at CBS affiliate WKRC Cincinnati, which it hopes to convert to HD news this year.OK, so I was a bit over-hypish in my statement, but make no mistake: The goal is to have HD news up and running by the end of the year. If they don't make it, it'll probably be online by the end of winter 2009 at the latest.

terryfoster, read the linked article more carefully.

OK, so I was a bit over-hypish in my statement, but make no mistake: The goal is to have HD news up and running by the end of the year. If they don't make it, it'll probably be online by the end of winter 2009 at the latest.


Great news and about freakin' time!!!

I watched the morning news on Channel 12 and noticed that they are back in the studio, but not in HD... I was disappointed because some had surmised here that the temporary digs were used while they were getting ready to spring HD on us... but that would have meant the return to the usual studio would have had accompanying HD.

Nonetheless... glad to hear it. Dance Party Friday in HD, eh? :D

I watched the morning news on Channel 12 and noticed that they are back in the studio, but not in HD... I was disappointed because some had surmised here that the temporary digs were used while they were getting ready to spring HD on us... but that would have meant the return to the usual studio would have had accompanying HD.



They are not in their NEW news studio. On this evening's 5:30 news they showed the new studio (it looks like it is far from being done) and while it was not mentioned that the the news would be in HD it is clear (to me) that the equipment that they are putting in is not for "business as usual" (SD newscasts). No date was announced as to when the new studio will be ready.

Have their been any rumors about WLWT and WXIX?

Question for the antenna reception experts:

My reception of Dayton's towers comes from approximately 10 degrees from north (on the tvfool plot). There is currently a proposal to build a new cellphone tower about exactly a half-mile from my house, and it would be at approximately 55 degrees (so around a 45-degree difference in direction from my antenna "aim").

The tower frequencies are on the attached screen grab. The lowest frequency listed starts just above TV UHF channel 69.

So, could this cause any interference with my TV reception? I know that DTV frequencies are lower than this, but is there ever any "bleeding" due to close proximity to a tower?

(I am guessing no, but I thought I would check)

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Pittsburgh at Cincinnati
Kevin Harlan, Rich Gannon

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) Dallas at St. Louis*
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cleveland at Washington
Ian Eagle, Solomon Wilcots

4pm FOX (19 WXIX) Detroit at Houston
Chris Rose, J.C. Pearson


Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Seattle at Tampa Bay
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Denver at New England+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya)


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers (none this week)


Notes:
WRGT 45 Dayton is showing the FOX early game opposite the Bengals this week.

Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Seattle at Tampa Bay
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea KramerMadden's taking the week off (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14862739#post14862739), to be replaced by Cris Collinsworth.

Madden's taking the week off (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14862739#post14862739), to be replaced by Cris Collinsworth.
Whoops... Knew that and yet still forget to change the template. Thanks and fixed.

Madden's taking the week off (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14862739#post14862739), to be replaced by Cris Collinsworth.
Sweet. Maybe I'll actually watch that game then. :p

My reception of Dayton's towers comes from approximately 10 degrees from north (on the tvfool plot). There is currently a proposal to build a new cellphone tower about exactly a half-mile from my house, and it would be at approximately 55 degrees (so around a 45-degree difference in direction from my antenna "aim").

The tower frequencies are on the attached screen grab. The lowest frequency listed starts just above TV UHF channel 69.

So, could this cause any interference with my TV reception?


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13220869#post13220869

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13220869#post13220869

Jeff, you have a mind like a steel trap. I didn't even remember that I had ever mentioned it here before. :o

Of course, the stupid thing has been "on and off" a million times in the last 6 months, because of legal wrangling, permits, etc., so it's kinda been "out of mind" for a while.

On this morning's WXIX Morning News it was announced that they are building a new set and the news will "soon" be in HD.

That leaves WLWT as the only local station that has not yet announced plans for HD newscasts.

Got my Cincy TWC bill today. It says coming in November, 9 new HD channels
993 Palladia HD
987 Disney Channel HD
984 Discovery Channel HD
986 ABC Family HD
985 TLC HD
992 ESPNU HD
990 FOX News HD
988 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
991 CNN HD


"And coming in December....
Animal Planet HD, ESPNEWS HD, The Weather Channel HD, Science Channel HD, ... and more."

Got my Cincy TWC bill today. It says coming in November, 9 new HD channels
993 Palladia HD
987 Disney Channel HD
984 Discovery Channel HD
986 ABC Family HD
985 TLC HD
992 ESPNU HD
990 FOX News HD
988 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
991 CNN HD


"And coming in December....
Animal Planet HD, ESPNEWS HD, The Weather Channel HD, Science Channel HD, ... and more."

Where is the promised Bit Ten HD?
I hope you meant Sci-Fi HD and not Science Channel HD

The included brochure just says "Science Channel HD" I would think they mean Sci-Fi, I've never even heard of the Science Channel.

Science Channel is a channel from Discovery.

WXIX fox 19 will be staying on thier digital location real channel 29 on and after Feb 17th and becoming fox 29 instead of WXIX fox 19 according to TV Fool. I was just checking out what eac station loaction would be on Feb 17th and beyond.

WXIX fox 19 will be staying on thier digital localation real channel 29 and becoming fox 29 instead of WXIX fox 19 according to TV Fool.

They'll be staying on 29 but mapping to 19-1 for the forseeable future. The FCC mandates that stations map to their analog channel numbers, even after the analog channels go away.

- Trip

TV Fool don't list it as being mapped, straight 29 only.

http://d.imagehost.org/0401/Radar-Digital2.png

The included brochure just says "Science Channel HD" I would think they mean Sci-Fi, I've never even heard of the Science Channel.

There is a Discovery Science Channel. Maybe that's what they are referring to.

TV Fool don't list it as being mapped, straight 29 only.

All I see is a blank space. It doesn't say what channel it will be mapping to. Same for WRTV. There must be holes in his data.

It is and will be 19-1.

- Trip

There is a Discovery Science Channel. Maybe that's what they are referring to.

Let's hope for the former!

Let's hope for the former!

I agree. While I enjoy Discovery, I think we will have enough Discovery in the line-up.

It is Discovery's Science Channel. Not Sci-Fi. While I am glad to get new hd channels, there are much better channels that could be added. How about USA, FX, and Sci-fi. Gimme those and I'd be happy. Of course I would also like Spike and Versus, but there is no excuse for not having USA. That is just ridiculous.

At least they are adding, I guess. Hopefully with SDV hitting and working, they will have the bandwith for even more. One can hope...

At least they are adding, I guess. Hopefully with SDV hitting and working, they will have the bandwith for even more. One can hope...

What happens if the demand on a node exceeds its' capabilities? (ie more channels requested on the node than can be carried. I wonder who decides which customer can't get his station. Kind of like the old AOL from a few years ago when you kept getting bumped off when the denad exceeded the capabilities.

WXIX fox 19 will be staying on thier digital location real channel 29 on and after Feb 17th and becoming fox 29 instead of WXIX fox 19 according to TV Fool. I was just checking out what eac station loaction would be on Feb 17th and beyond.

I have no idea of where TV Fool got that information because one of the engineers that I talked to at WXIX had no knowledge about it.

To consumers it would be EXTREMELY confusing if they done that. Consumers (OTA and satellite) tune to the station number that is given. How would "Fox 29" watchers know that they should tune to channel 19? That would make it as confusing as cable. :D

What happens if the demand on a node exceeds its' capabilities? (ie more channels requested on the node than can be carried. I wonder who decides which customer can't get his station. Kind of like the old AOL from a few years ago when you kept getting bumped off when the denad exceeded the capabilities.

Won't happen...HUGE difference from the AOL of years ago...:)

I have no idea of where TV Fool got that information because one of the engineers that I talked to at WXIX had no knowledge about it.

To consumers it would be EXTREMELY confusing if they done that. Consumers (OTA and satellite) tune to the station number that is given. How would "Fox 29" watchers know that they should tune to channel 19? That would make it as confusing as cable. :D

Their call sign is WXIX, - XIX is 19 in Roman Numerals. It won't happen. TV Fool has bad information.

Their call sign is WXIX, - XIX is 19 in Roman Numerals. It won't happen. TV Fool has bad information.

Maybe TVFool will change it to be "WXXIX". :D

I wasn't home but my wife said she watched the Bears on 45??? What was up with that???


We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Pittsburgh at Cincinnati
Kevin Harlan, Rich Gannon

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) Dallas at St. Louis*
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cleveland at Washington
Ian Eagle, Solomon Wilcots

4pm FOX (19 WXIX) Detroit at Houston
Chris Rose, J.C. Pearson


Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Seattle at Tampa Bay
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Denver at New England+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya)


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers (none this week)


Notes:
WRGT 45 Dayton is showing the FOX early game opposite the Bengals this week.

Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

To consumers it would be EXTREMELY confusing if they done that. Consumers (OTA and satellite) tune to the station number that is given. How would "Fox 29" watchers know that they should tune to channel 19? :D

WXIX digital transmits on Channel 29 and will continue to do so post-transition. When autoscans don't find all the local channels, many OTA users will need to know the actual, physical channel # the signal is transmitted on(channel 29 in WXIX's case) in order to adjust antenna/use signal meter and utilize their receiver's manual/individual channel additions functions in order to be able to decode certian stations signals, and the virtual channel information involved. This is why sites such as TV fool provide the info on the physical channel # used.

Except in cases when the Virtual channel info is taken from a Sat(D* or E*) or internet based EPG, No DTV receiver "knows" what the virtual channel is for any particular station(19.x in wxix's case) until *after* a signal lock is acheived on each individual station's signal (requires approx 15dB SNR). ....

In WXIX-DT's case, If a OTA DTV receiver was actually only ever "tuned" to channel 19, and didn't find a "good enough" signal on Channel 29 during "autoscan"(because of issues such as antenna misadjustment/etc) it would never be able to decode WXIX-DT's signal, and all the user would get would be a blank screen, and no signal indicaton of WXIX-DT's signal on the receiver's signal quality meter ....

Once the receiver "finds" and stores the VC info being sent in the stations VCT however, the user can then *select* virtual channel 19.1 (or 19.2 if they want to see "The tube" not available slate), but the tuner is *actually* tuning to channel 29 ....

As Trip indicated, 19(WXIX analog channel #) is the required-* Major Channel # for WXIX in their Virtual Channel Table, and will continue to be so required post-transition.

* - per FCC rules+ATSC A65 PSIP standard, stations VCT major channel # must = their analog # number, even after analog is gone ...

In any case, I posted the correction info for TVfool post-transition plot (regarding the incorrect "blank" info for WXIX-DT and WRTV-DT "virt" column, which should be 19.1 and 6.1 respectively) in TVfool thread in HDTV Technical area ..... TVfool's developer usually monitors that thread and makes corrections to TVfool as needed ... Unfortunetly however, with recent changes to TVfool site+omission of the ERP info, it will no longer be possible to verify if certian information is correct regarding FCC records being used by TVfool regarding ERP and DA patterns being used ....


That would make it as confusing as cable.


While the virtual channel mapping works great for allowing stations to keep their existing channel branding, and for allowing OTA viewers to channel surf to the channel #'s they are used to ---- Where it sometimes gets confusing for OTA users however is when they are setting up reception of stations+"scanning in" their local signals, Because Autoscans often aren't enough to "find" all receivable local signals .... And, note that "re-scanning in" signals periodically is often necessary because stations make changes to their streams, occasionally, (such as adding/deleting subchannels/etc) --- While some receivers will "update" that info every time you "channel surf" to a particular station, others don't ..

So, It's probably pretty confusing as it is for OTA viewers who don't understand the virtual channel mapping, don't know what the actual Channel #'s are, and don't manage to "find" all their receivable local signals via their receivers "autoscan" functions(including subsequent scans for receivers which offer such fuctions - not everyone uses directional antennas you can "aim" specifically at a group of stations in a certian direction) with their antenna placed in certain position(s) .....

Such that I suspect many OTA DTV viewers are just "living with" whatever is found via "autoscan" (or returning Their DTV receiver to the store or selling it on Ebay when nothing is found), even though there many be many more signals they may be able to receive with some antenna adjustments and "manual" channel additions .... Again, requiring the receiver support such Manual/individual channel scan functions(some don't thanks to a lack of proper DTV receiver standards) and often requiring use of signal meter+knowledge of the actual RF channel # used for transmission for stations in the user's area .....

I wasn't home but my wife said she watched the Bears on 45??? What was up with that???

Yeah, a lot of Dallas fans here at the office were quite upset they didn't get to see their game. According to this (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-07-FOX.html), it was supposed to be Minnesota @ Chicago, not Dallas @ St. Louis.

Yeah, a lot of Dallas fans here at the office were quite upset they didn't get to see their game. According to this (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-07-FOX.html), it was supposed to be Minnesota @ Chicago, not Dallas @ St. Louis.
Sorry guys, WRGT (FOX Dayton) switched from DAL at STL to MIN at CHI and I didn't catch it in time to update the post. If you ever see something that disagrees with what I've posted please let me know so that I can look into it and edit if necessary.

No problem. I, for one, would like to thank you for posting the schedule every week!

Om Tw912 tonight during NCIS, a lot nof picture pixelization. Went to Ch 12.1 on my HD antenna, Same thing there. Can't get Ch 7 out of Dayton tonight so I can't check there.
Gave up and went to SD on TW12

Om Tw912 tonight during NCIS, a lot nof picture pixelization. Went to Ch 12.1 on my HD antenna, Same thing there. Can't get Ch 7 out of Dayton tonight so I can't check there.
Gave up and went to SD on TW12


Same issue on DirecTV, they finaly switched over to the SD signal a half hour in. We were watching it about 20 min. behind, or we would have switched over to SD ourselves.

Om Tw912 tonight during NCIS, a lot of picture pixelization. Went to Ch 12.1 on my HD antenna, Same thing there. Can't get Ch 7 out of Dayton tonight so I can't check there.
Gave up and went to SD on TW12

Now at 9 pm TW912 has dropped out of HD into SD.

I'm watching WKRC-DT via the OTA feed and the problem is definitely on their end. Besides not being in HD that loud click in the audio that we have complained about in the past is back. I switched to the SD feed and the click can also be heard on that feed.

I'm watching WKRC-DT via the OTA feed and the problem is definitely on their end. Besides not being in HD that loud click in the audio that we have complained about in the past is back. I switched to the SD feed and the click can also be heard on that feed.

No one has rung in yet about Dayton 7.1. If it is there also then maybe it is a CBS problem and not isolated to WKRC.

No one has rung in yet about Dayton 7.1. If it is there also then maybe it is a CBS problem and not isolated to WKRC.

Channel 7 OTA is in HD & DD...

19.2 is blank with nothing on it no graphic saying the tube has shut down. as of october 22, 2008 at 1am.

i thought they had forgotten about 19.2 - lol

We will get a total of 4 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 3 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 4 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Tampa Bay at Dallas
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Houston
Gus Johnson, Steve Tasker

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) NY Giants at Pittsburgh
Dick Stockton, Troy Aikman


Sunday Night Football:

No game this week (World Series). Football Night in America will air as usual.


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Indianapolis at Tennessee+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers (none this week)


Notes:
Sorry Cleveland Browns fans, you will have to go to a sports bar this week.

Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Thats odd...According to my NFL schedule from NFL.com...The Bengals and the Texans have a bye this week...The rest of the listed games are scheduled...

*EDIT* Nevermind I guess...:confused:

The schedule I printed out on 8-11-08 apparently has been changed...I just checked it and sure enough the Bengals are playing the Texans...

They changed it after Hurricane Ike hit Texas and damaged Reliant Field in Houston. Their game against Baltimore was then rescheduled for later in the year, and they moved up the Bengals vs Houston game.

That makes sense...Thanks...:)

19.2 is blank with nothing on it no graphic saying the tube has shut down. as of october 22, 2008 at 1am.

WXIX is doing a lot of rearranging and upgrades (for local HD newscasts) and someone likely accidentally removed it. It should be back soon.

By the way, WXIX's parent is considering several options for 19.2 and, according to one source, should have a deal done by the first of the year.

....WXIX's parent is considering several options for 19.2 and, according to one source, should have a deal done by the first of the year.
Can you tell us - or point us to a story describing - what those options might be? :)

I think it's stupid that they even waste the bandwidth with a blank, unused station... but I am sure there is a reason (and I am sure someone here will tell me what it is :D )

Splicer010: amazingly, after the schedule was changed, the Bengals website DID update the downloadable pdf schedule with the change in it.

I have to say I was surprised.

http://www.bengals.com/team/Schedule.html

I think it's stupid that they even waste the bandwidth with a blank, unused station... but I am sure there is a reason (and I am sure someone here will tell me what it is :D )

It's my understanding that there is available bandwidth due to this being a 720p station and the bit rate FOX (not WXIX-DT) uses to encode their broadcast.

Yes...That was where I verified they were going to play...

I printed out the NFL schedule to know the 5 w's instead of wondering...My wife constantly asks me who is playing and all I have to say is "check the printout"...She was ticked tho that she almost missed her beloved Bears last week on 45...I got an earful when I got home Sunday night...

It's my understanding that there is available bandwidth due to this being a 720p station and the bit rate FOX (not WXIX-DT) uses to encode their broadcast.
Yes, FOX stations operate differently than the other networks. WLWT, WCPO, WKRC, WSTR, etc. all encode the final mpeg2 video on site, and can adjust the amount of bandwidth they allocate to each of their subchannels. FOX uses the splicer system, where they actually encode the final mpeg2 at the FOX network, and then the local stations add it into their data stream. FOX encodes the mpeg2 video at a bitrate that leaves room for one subchannel, so even if WXIX wanted to they couldn't increase the HD bandwidth. They could turn off 19-2, but my guess is that they've left it in place so that viewers' TVs will continue to tune the channel so that when they finally do find something to put on there, it won't require a re-scan for certain TVs (some update on the fly but there are still a lot that require a re-scan).

They could turn off 19-2, but my guess is that they've left it in place so that viewers' TVs will continue to tune the channel so that when they finally do find something to put on there, it won't require a re-scan for certain TVs (some update on the fly but there are still a lot that require a re-scan).

No...In actuality...at least from what I was told...is that it is FCC mandated...Short and sweet the networks can either use it or lose it when speaking of the sub-channels...That is why the tube disclaimer has been there so long...Technically the channel is being used...There is nothing specific that is mandated to be broadcast...just that there is not dead air...

Can you tell us - or point us to a story describing - what those options might be? :)



For 19.2 they are "considering" a full time movie channel or "an oldies TV station" (Retro TV Network?) as well as several other options. One think that I've heard that they WON'T do is a local weather channel. I guess with the failure of NBC's Weather Plus they decided that it just wouldn't make money (people mainly watched it when the weather is bad).

Speaking if NBC's Weather Plus has anyone heard what WLWT is going to do? I know that there was a news story that they want to continue it but without the NBC part of the feed they have a lot of time to fill. I think a Local Headline News, Sports and Weather would be nice. Anyone have any suggestions for WLWT?

No...In actuality...at least from what I was told...is that it is FCC mandated...Short and sweet the networks can either use it or lose it when speaking of the sub-channels...That is why the tube disclaimer has been there so long...Technically the channel is being used...There is nothing specific that is mandated to be broadcast...just that there is not dead air...

If they are keeping the channel up for this reason, don't they have the obligation to air some children's programming on it?

Speaking if NBC's Weather Plus has anyone heard what WLWT is going to do? I know that there was a news story that they want to continue it but without the NBC part of the feed they have a lot of time to fill. I think a Local Headline News, Sports and Weather would be nice. Anyone have any suggestions for WLWT?


I suggest they get rid of the subchannel and provide us with full bitrate NBC-HD. The quality of the HD picture for ND football and other sporting events suffers as a result of the use of subchannels.

No...In actuality...at least from what I was told...is that it is FCC mandated...Short and sweet the networks can either use it or lose it when speaking of the sub-channels...That is why the tube disclaimer has been there so long...Technically the channel is being used...There is nothing specific that is mandated to be broadcast...just that there is not dead air...

I have never heard such a thing. The station has full rights to its subchannels, as it's part of their licensed 19.393 Mbps of bandwidth. Subchannels can come and go. The only problem with that is that some tuners have to rescan to pick them up.

- Trip

If they are keeping the channel up for this reason, don't they have the obligation to air some children's programming on it?

Only if there is actual programming and not just a barker...And it doesn't have to be childrens programming...just educational...

I have never heard such a thing. The station has full rights to its subchannels, as it's part of their licensed 19.393 Mbps of bandwidth. Subchannels can come and go. The only problem with that is that some tuners have to rescan to pick them up.

- Trip

And I have never heard such that you are saying...If the station has full rights to the subchannel then the FCC couldn't mandate there be educational programming on the sub channel...I really don't think the station gives a hoot if a tuner has to rescan...As an example 22-1 out of Dayton used to also run The Tube on their subchannel...When they lost the retransmission rights they just shut 22.2 down completely and dedicated the full bandwidth to 22.1...Should they decide to put 22.2 back on air I doubt they are too worried that someone will have to perform a rescan...

Again this is only what I have been told and this was almost 2 years ago...

And I have never heard such that you are saying...If the station has full rights to the subchannel then the FCC couldn't mandate there be educational programming on the sub channel...I really don't think the station gives a hoot if a tuner has to rescan...As an example 22-1 out of Dayton used to also run The Tube on their subchannel...When they lost the retransmission rights they just shut 22.2 down completely and dedicated the full bandwidth to 22.1...Should they decide to put 22.2 back on air I doubt they are too worried that someone will have to perform a rescan...

Again this is only what I have been told and this was almost 2 years ago...

The FCC does mandate E/I on each subchannel but there's no "use it or lose it" to subchannels. As long as the station has, at a bare minimum, a single SD stream, they are in compliance with FCC rules. The FCC doesn't regulate subchannels beyond those requirements.

- Trip

I suggest they get rid of the subchannel and provide us with full bitrate NBC-HD.While I agree with this sentiment, it's not going to happen once ATSC-M/H gets finalized next year, and the rush to get the technology on the air begins.

By my estimate, a single CIF-resolution simulcast of main WLWT programming will use something in the 2.3-2.5 Mbps range of data. Add another stream for whatever reason, and the figure about doubles. Assuming 2.4 Mbps is used for M/H programming, let's do the math:

19.4 Mbps ATSC throughput
- 2.4 Mbps ATSC-M/H stream
- .576 Mbps 5-1 audio (384 kbps 5.1 audio + 192 kbps stereo SAP)
- .400 Mbps for PSIP and null packets
= ~16 Mbps maximum for 5-1 video. That's it.

And M/H is too lucrative for commercial stations to resist. According to this article (http://www.current.org/tech/tech0809mobile.shtml), stations nationwide have the potential to earn over $2 billion in new annual advertising revenue, just by providing advertisers the ability to simultaneously air commercials to people not just at home, but also to those on the go with cell phones.

I suggest they get rid of the subchannel and provide us with full bitrate NBC-HD. The quality of the HD picture for ND football and other sporting events suffers as a result of the use of subchannels.
WLWT gives more bandwidth to the HD stream than any other local station. Notre Dame football picture quality issues are an NBC issue, not a WLWT issue. NBC will be switching to a new distribution method any day now, and based on what I have heard you should see an increase in picture quality for NBC programming, especially high-motion content such as sports.

Speaking if NBC's Weather Plus has anyone heard what WLWT is going to do? I know that there was a news story that they want to continue it but without the NBC part of the feed they have a lot of time to fill. I think a Local Headline News, Sports and Weather would be nice. Anyone have any suggestions for WLWT? Only thing I've heard is that Hearst-Argyle is "evaluating options for 5-2."

Since it hasn't been noted here, 19-2 is back to showing the "Tube Music Network will no longer be available" message.

WLWT gives more bandwidth to the HD stream than any other local station. Notre Dame football picture quality issues are an NBC issue, not a WLWT issue. NBC will be switching to a new distribution method any day now, and based on what I have heard you should see an increase in picture quality for NBC programming, especially high-motion content such as sports.


I hope you are right. Nevertheless, based upon user reports, full bitrate NBC-HD is better than NBC-HD with a subchannel.

As to your first argument, WSTR devotes all of its bandwidth to the HD stream. The Raycom college football regional broadcasts on it look pretty good.

As to your first argument, WSTR devotes all of its bandwidth to the HD stream. The Raycom college football regional broadcasts on it look pretty good.

If the data I have is accurate, WSTR-DT does 15 Mbps on 64-1 at 720p with no statistical multiplexing. WLWT-DT does statistical multiplexing on 5-1 at 1080i, which means the bitrate varies, but the capture I have shows 5-1 at 16.7 Mbps (5-2 at 1.7 Mbps).

Someone will have to confirm these numbers haven't changed, as they are several months old.

- Trip

WSTR is now 1080i.

Someone will have to confirm these numbers haven't changed, as they are several months old.


Trip,

The only thing that has changed is WSTR-DT has been sending 1080i since a few days before the first SEC HD game. Bitrates haven't changed -- WSTR-DT HD video CBR at 15mb/s, Null packets at 3.74Mb/s ..

Note: Highest bitrate I've seen from WLWT-DT HD video stream since they added WX+ is right around 17Mb/s - they indeed currently give the most bits to HD of Dayton/Cincinnati stations, last I heard they were using Harmonic MV600(or MV650 don't remember which) encoder, but that was from a few years ago+might have changed ....

WLWT+WSTR current TSreader caps/HTML export files(Updates from this evening)in attached zip file (Note : remembered to leave out the EIT's and thumbnails this time) ...

Update: LOL, I'm surprised there were no TEI/continuity errors during those caps, as I just noticed I did those using my "dayton" antenna(aimed approx 155 degrees off target from Cincy stations) LOL ....

I hope you are right. Nevertheless, based upon user reports, full bitrate NBC-HD is better than NBC-HD with a subchannel.Absolutely. I was just trying to point out that the bad quality on the ND football games is an NBC issue. Certainly the subchannel doesn't help things, but it's not "the" reason. Sunday Night Football generally looks much better than ND football does.

If you were to compare distribution feeds from the major networks (the feed from NBC to WLWT before WLWT does anything with it...or CBS to WKRC) I believe you would see about 40Mbps from CBS and ABC, somewhere in the range of 20-30 for NBC, and then FOX is an exception because of the splicer system, you'd see 13-15Mbps which is what gets passed on to the viewer.

Now, (again, excepting FOX because of the splicer) each affiliate is going to re-compress the video from the networks to fit into their broadcast stream. Here are current bitrate snapshots from tonight around 10:20 to 10:40pm:

WCPO 9-1 15.3Mbps (steady)
WLWT 5-1 16-17Mbps (fairly steady in this range)
WKRC 12-1 10-13 (stat mux, varies. have seen it as low as 8Mbps during daytime programming)
WXIX 19-1 13-15 (varies. have seen it as low as 11Mbps)
WSTR 64-1 15Mbps (steady)

Please see attached screen shots for TSReader readings. The top green bar in each image shows the bandwidth dedicated to the HD channel for the respective TV stations.

Personally, I think that the 20-30Mbps from NBC compressed and sent out as 16-17Mbps from WLWT looks better than the 40Mbps from CBS compressed and sent out as 11Mbps from WKRC. Obviously we can't make a blanket statement and say this is always the case (ND football for example), but in general I think this is a true statement.

Also, as I mentioned above, NBC is switching their distribution, from mpeg2 to mpeg4. mpeg4 is a more efficient way of encoding the video with limited bandwidth. Personally I prefer mpeg2 at high bitrates, but it seems that NBC has decided to use mpeg4 encoding instead of increasing the bandwidth of their distribution system. Regardless, the switch should result in a noticeable improvement in picture quality from NBC, I would think. I can tell you that the affiliates have the new mpeg4 equipment and are testing it now. I am not sure when it will be in production but it is supposed to be very soon...



As to your first argument, WSTR devotes all of its bandwidth to the HD stream. The Raycom college football regional broadcasts on it look pretty good.Not trying to argue, just trying to point some things out. See screen shots...

Just one more note/addition...

The 0x1fff streams you see are NULL packets. This is basically the amount of bandwidth that is being "thrown away" by the station. You can see that WSTR has a fairly high value... almost 4Mbps are not being used.

Also keep in mind that most of these values are variable... some more than others but it should give you a general idea.

Note: Highest bitrate I've seen from WLWT-DT HD video stream since they added WX+ is right around 17Mb/s - they indeed currently give the most bits to HD of Dayton/Cincinnati stations, last I heard they were using Harmonic MV600(or MV650 don't remember which) encoder, but that was from a few years ago+might have changed ....It would be either the MV400, MV450, or MV500. Nothing alphanumerically above MV500 has been released. The arrangement probably has changed. Maybe that's why HD picture quality went downhill for the last two Sunday games, according to reports....? (That would be odd for Harmonic. Maybe Hearst-Argyle went Tandberg or Harris?)

Re: what to do with 5.2...

When I lived in New Orleans, years ago, there was a cable channel that would continuously rebroadcast the most-recently-shown local news half-hour. It was a lot more convenient than it sounds. You could pop on and catch the full weather forecast at :15 and :45, the sports segment around :22 and :52, or catch the major headlines on the half-hour. If there was something going on around town that was newsworthy, you were never too far from being able to see the story.

If I remember correctly, they would show the morning (7-7:30am) show live and then repeat it until Noon... show the Noon news live and then repeat it until 5 pm, show that live and repeat at 5:30, then show the 6 pm news live, and repeat until the 10 pm news (Central time zone has 10 pm news instead of 11 pm!). Then they'd repeat the 10 pm news all night long until the morning again.

Re: what to do with 5.2...

When I lived in New Orleans, years ago, there was a cable channel that would continuously rebroadcast the most-recently-shown local news half-hour. It was a lot more convenient than it sounds. You could pop on and catch the full weather forecast at :15 and :45, the sports segment around :22 and :52, or catch the major headlines on the half-hour. If there was something going on around town that was newsworthy, you were never too far from being able to see the story.

If I remember correctly, they would show the morning (7-7:30am) show live and then repeat it until Noon... show the Noon news live and then repeat it until 5 pm, show that live and repeat at 5:30, then show the 6 pm news live, and repeat until the 10 pm news (Central time zone has 10 pm news instead of 11 pm!). Then they'd repeat the 10 pm news all night long until the morning again.

Yes the great rebroadcasts of WWL news. I'd loved that feature. Kind of like the weather channel that WCPO has on TWC.

I think this would be very popular in Cincy.

It would be either the MV400, MV450, or MV500. Nothing alphanumerically above MV500 has been released.


Thanks for the correction, my mistake, I remembered the wrong # for the most recent Harmonic encoder ....

It's MV500 ...

See here :

http://www.harmonicinc.com/ah_press_release_text.cfm?ID=667

Could somebody please help me out before I finish going completely insane? No matter what I try, I cannot find channel WCPO-DT 10 (9-x). I am using a Terk TV5 amplifier indoor antenna. I have no issues finding any of the other four major networks in either Cincinnati or Dayton. However, the ABC alternative in Dayton (22-x) is not strong enough to be counted on consistently.

Neither of my two TV's with built-in digital OTA tuners can find 9-x when hooked up to the Terk, and neither can my Dish Network VIP 722 receiver. I pick up the WKRC signal very well (88 signal strength - my best of the major networks), but I can't find the WCPO signal at all, even though the two towers are very close.

I feel like I must be doing something wrong, but can't figure it out at all. Any ideas???? THANKS!!!

Could somebody please help me out before I finish going completely insane? No matter what I try, I cannot find channel WCPO-DT 10 (9-x). I am using a Terk TV5 amplifier indoor antenna. I have no issues finding any of the other four major networks in either Cincinnati or Dayton. However, the ABC alternative in Dayton (22-x) is not strong enough to be counted on consistently.

Neither of my two TV's with built-in digital OTA tuners can find 9-x when hooked up to the Terk, and neither can my Dish Network VIP 722 receiver. I pick up the WKRC signal very well (88 signal strength - my best of the major networks), but I can't find the WCPO signal at all, even though the two towers are very close.

I feel like I must be doing something wrong, but can't figure it out at all. Any ideas???? THANKS!!!

I think you need a better antenna for VHF. WCPO just happens to be the one station you can't get and it also happens to be the only VHF station around afaik. Lots of people here who actually know what they are talking about but that's my 2 cents! :D

stuckatwork, something else to note is that WKRC-DT will move to VHF 12 in Feb 2009.

My personal favorite indoor antennas are the Radio Shack 15-1868 and the RS "flying saucer" one. Try the 1868 first (it has plenty of adjustibility with the knob on the bottom right), and if that doesn't work, return it and exchange it for the flying saucer.

Could somebody please help me out before I finish going completely insane? No matter what I try, I cannot find channel WCPO-DT 10 (9-x). I am using a Terk TV5 amplifier indoor antenna.

Don't the Terk's have a high/low setting for gain (or does that model have adjustable gain)? Turn the gain down to the lowest level and see if that helps.

Anyone know of FSNCIN (661-1) on Directv is going to show ANY of the Bluejackets games in HD? There have been a few games on 661, but 661-1 isn't showing the hi-def version, when I know the game is available in it.

Thanks.

Anyone know of FSNCIN (661-1) on Directv is going to show ANY of the Bluejackets games in HD? There have been a few games on 661, but 661-1 isn't showing the hi-def version, when I know the game is available in it.

Thanks.

I've asked about this over at DBSTALK, and 661 was supposed to go fulltime HD in August, but was pulled at the last minute. Some problem with the uplink capacity or some other technical problem. I've never understood why they can't just remap the darn channel to 661-1 when it's already on the sat for the columbus FSN.:confused:

Yes the great rebroadcasts of WWL news. I'd loved that feature. Cox Cable Channel 15, wasn't it? :D Now I understand where your screen name comes from. Moved from "who dat" to "who dey" land, eh?

Kind of like the weather channel that WCPO has on TWC. Or channel 9-2 OTA. ;)

Cox Cable Channel 15, wasn't it? :D Now I understand where your screen name comes from. Moved from "who dat" to "who dey" land, eh?

Or channel 9-2 OTA. ;)

Yep channel 15. And yes the "Saint" in my user name is not for good behavior :D

I guess now I could say "who dey dat say da gonna beat dem Bengal/Saints"

I guess now I could say "who dey dat say da gonna beat dem Bengal/Saints"

Well the answer to the former is...anyone they play...;)

Could somebody please help me out before I finish going completely insane? No matter what I try, I cannot find channel WCPO-DT 10 (9-x). I am using a Terk TV5 amplifier indoor antenna. I have no issues finding any of the other four major networks in either Cincinnati or Dayton. However, the ABC alternative in Dayton (22-x) is not strong enough to be counted on consistently.

Neither of my two TV's with built-in digital OTA tuners can find 9-x when hooked up to the Terk, and neither can my Dish Network VIP 722 receiver. I pick up the WKRC signal very well (88 signal strength - my best of the major networks), but I can't find the WCPO signal at all, even though the two towers are very close.

I feel like I must be doing something wrong, but can't figure it out at all. Any ideas???? THANKS!!!

I had a difficult time getting 9.1 and 9.2 as well. I have an RCA amplified indoor "rabbit ear" antenna, and live about 25 miles from Cincinnati. To get 9.1 I had to point the rabbit ears horizontally (one ear pointing due left, the other due right), and adjust the length of the ears so that the tips were 29 inches from each other. In that configuration, my rabbit ears could pull in 9.1 and 9.2 (and luckily I could still get the rest of the stations too). There's a scientific explanation for that 29 inch length, but I can't find the website I got the info from If your antenna is not a rabbit ear design, I'm not sure what to tell you. I hope this helped.

Anyone know why WCET-DT is putting TWO station graphics on the screen? The one is opaque, 4x3 safe, the other is a full color logo,not 4x3 safe. This color logo is terrible and a distraction. Why do stations continue with this behavior of graphic overload?

I just noticed the new bug on WCET after you mentioned it. I agree there is no need for it.

That is odd...:confused:

Didn't see this one coming?!


http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081026/ENT/810260327


http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/29/cincinnatis-own-wxix-gears-up-for-hd-news-transition/

Cincinnati's own WXIX gears up for HD news transition

by Darren Murph, posted Oct 29th 2008 at 6:49AM
Cincinnati's Fox 19 has come a long way over the years, but it's still lagging behind in one huge area: HD newscasts. Thankfully for residents of the Ohio city, all that's about to change... at least, according to news director Steve Ackermann. Reportedly, WXIX will move this week into its high-def-ready news set, and if all goes as planned, it could become the second station in the area to broadcast local news in HDTV within "a couple of weeks." We'll be watching.

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 4 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) Green Bay at Tennessee*
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Jacksonville at Cincinnati
Gus Johnson, Steve Tasker

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Dallas at NY Giants
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman


Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – New England at Indianapolis
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Pittsburgh at Washington+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers (none this week)


Notes:
Cincinnati has a 1pm blackout of doubleheader game 1 on FOX because of the Bengals home game at the same time on CBS. Avoid the blackout by tuning in 45 WRGT.

Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

The 8:15 game is New England at Indinapolis not Tennessee. Check the Nfl.com schedule before you post from noww on so no more mistakes.

http://www.nfl.com/schedules?seasonType=REG#Week9http://www.nfl.com/schedules?seasonType=REG#Week9

The 8:15 game is New England at Indinapolis not Tennessee. Check the Nfl.com schedule before you post from noww on so no more mistakes.

http://www.nfl.com/schedules?seasonType=REG#Week9http://www.nfl.com/schedules?seasonType=REG#Week9
Thank you... fixed. Could do without the attitude though, unless you'd like me to tell you to use spell check from "noww" on, so no more mistakes... :)

Hey guys, do you know if Cincinnati Time Warner will be adding any new HD channels in the next month? I see this article from engadget about Dayton Time Warner getting 13 new HD channels (including CNN, FOX, ESPNU, etc...)... and below it someone responds with a comment that this will be the same for Cincinnati TW as well. That would be great, but I have not heard or seen this anywhere else for Cincinnati. Have you heard anything? Here is the link. Thanks.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/13/time-warner-cable-adding-13-new-hd-channels-in-dayton-ohio/

WKRC new studio debuts today, but no mention of HD:

Local 12 Launches New Studio Today at 4 pm

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3ce012cd-4031-4874-907d-627fb275e377&rss=30

New Studio Construction You'll notice something very different about Local 12 News later today.

After months of planning and weeks of building, we will debut a new studio beginning First at Four.

We're putting the finishing touches on the project right now.

Take a look at the video to see a time-lapse view of some of the construction.

Hey guys, do you know if Cincinnati Time Warner will be adding any new HD channels in the next month? I see this article from engadget about Dayton Time Warner getting 13 new HD channels (including CNN, FOX, ESPNU, etc...)... and below it someone responds with a comment that this will be the same for Cincinnati TW as well. That would be great, but I have not heard or seen this anywhere else for Cincinnati. Have you heard anything? Here is the link. Thanks.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/13/time-warner-cable-adding-13-new-hd-channels-in-dayton-ohio/

In the latest TWC magazine/flyer, it says they will add 9 HD channels in Nov. The list looks the same except I don't remember BigTen in the list for Cincy. It said more would be added in Dec but they weren't listed. In the former Adelphia Amelia area, where I am, we only get 4 of those 9 for some reason, and they are not the ones I would have picked out of the 9. The 4 new channels were also listed on my latest bill.

I assume this is the rollout of SDV in this area.

Great! Thanks for the response, Dave.

I guess since I have the paperless bill-pay online, I don't receive my bill or fliers from TW anymore. I had checked their website, but found nothing on it... which is surprising that it wouldn't be broadcasted under the Cincinnati Programming link (or channel lineup change screen) as a selling point. Hopefully they will update the website once it goes live, so I can see what the new HD channel numbers will be for these stations.


---------------------------------------

"In the latest TWC magazine/flyer, it says they will add 9 HD channels in Nov. The list looks the same except I don't remember BigTen in the list for Cincy. It said more would be added in Dec but they weren't listed. In the former Adelphia Amelia area, where I am, we only get 4 of those 9 for some reason, and they are not the ones I would have picked out of the 9. The 4 new channels were also listed on my latest bill.

I assume this is the rollout of SDV in this area."

WKRC new studio debuts today, but no mention of HD:

Local 12 Launches New Studio Today at 4 pm

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3ce012cd-4031-4874-907d-627fb275e377&rss=30

New Studio Construction You'll notice something very different about Local 12 News later today.

After months of planning and weeks of building, we will debut a new studio beginning First at Four.

We're putting the finishing touches on the project right now.

Take a look at the video to see a time-lapse view of some of the construction.

Kiesewetter had a blog post (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a791 82e5b-6f60-497c-905a-b0ea11b6e456&plckCommentSortOrder=TimeStampAscending&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com) today about the new sets for 12 & 19 and mentioned this little tidbit about HD news coming for channel 12 as well:

Ch 12's new set will be HDTV ready, but they won't have all the needed equipment installed until after sweeps end Nov. 26.

Maybe the "needed equipment" also includes the gear they need to do 5.1 sound.

Overdue but glad to see that Cincinnati will get more HD news soon.

Great! Thanks for the response, Dave.

I guess since I have the paperless bill-pay online, I don't receive my bill or fliers from TW anymore. I had checked their website, but found nothing on it... which is surprising that it wouldn't be broadcasted under the Cincinnati Programming link (or channel lineup change screen) as a selling point. Hopefully they will update the website once it goes live, so I can see what the new HD channel numbers will be for these stations.


My TWC bill says new channels and rates coming in Nov. They included a brochure that lists these channels:
984 - Discovery HD
986 - ABC Family HD
987 - Disney HD
993 - Palladia HD

The "digital trends" monthly guide also lists TLC HD, FoxNews HD, CNN-HD, Hallmark MC-HD and ESPNU-HD, which round out the 9 that Cincy is getting but not former Adelphia areas. No channel numbers or specific date is given.

I'm hoping they will launch CNN HD & Fox News HD in time for the election but I think that might be wishful thinking.

This is on line at Dayton Daily News Today.


DAYTON — The operators of Dayton's public television stations, WPTD Channel 16 and WPTO Channel 14, will merge with the operator of Cincinnati's public TV station, WCET Channel 48, to form a regional public TV company.

It will be interesting to see if/how the ThinkTV/CET merger effects the 3 DTV stations, HD and the other programming services involved, as well as CET/ThinkTV productions, the latter being something I'd personally certianly like to see more of, especially HD wise. As well as WCET's OTA operating schedule, given they shut down the transmitter between ~1am~6am 3 or 4 nights out of the week ...

Depending on how they do things, I would think it possible the merger could hopefully turn out to be a good thing in terms of HD quality and programming - for example, perhaps it will make possible less duplication of the same programming running on thinkTV/CET .....

Anyone successfully Demux WLWT-DT Video streams recently? If So, what Demuxer are you using? Also, if anyone has any ideas concerning what may be going on involving the below(and if it may or may not be something wrong on WLWT's end), appreciate any thoughts, Thanks!

The reason I ask is, I'm running into a new problem involving demuxing WLWT-DT Transport Stream I've never ran into before -- I should say, I haven't demuxed WLWT-DT's TS is quite a while, so I don't know how long this has been going on, but I do know I haven't ever had a problem demuxing streams from WLWT-DT's TS before, including involving 23.976fps material.

Problem I'm having is, there seems to currently be a intermittant, although very frequent problem which is making it impossible with any of the TS demuxers I have handy to properly demux WLWT-DT's elementary Video streams, at least involving telecined 23.976fps material(such as sourced from film) ... It's happening for either 5.1 or 5.2 Elementary Video streams - But the issue seems more prevalent on 5.1, presumably because there's more 29.97fps video content involed on 5.2 - --- such that for further processing (for editing, IVTC'ing/reencoding such as with X.264/etc) I can't find a way to sync the A/V streams for the remux, other than to use ProjectX for the Demux and allowing it to drop all the frames with the PTS(presentation time stamp) errors ....

Usually when these sorts of issues/oddities with Streams happen involving timecodes(such as timestamp gaps) I've been able to find some sort of way to "get it to work right"(for example, using a different demuxer - W6RZ's Xport, MPEG2streamclip/etc), but, unless there is a dumuxer that works/supports whatever it is "new" WLWT is doing(unless of course WLWT is just doing something "wrong", which seems a possibility), which I haven't tried, so far I'm at a loss to come up with even an "idea" that "might" work ...

Follows is example of the error of interest(I think) I'm getting ("InGOP PTS - presentation time stamp Difference = [x]ms" being the "error" of concern here, I believe), in this case as reported by ProjectX, which unlike some of the other Demuxers I use, will just drop frames/GOP's when such errors occur rather than allow, for example incorrect timecode info to be written which will result in inability to sync the A/V streams when they are muxed, later :

----------------------------------------------

!> dropping GOP# 525 @ orig.PTS 01:06:24.471 (358602476), errorcode: 20
!> Pics exp/cnt 15/15, inGOP PTS diff. 66ms, new Timecode 00:04:17.991
!> PTS difference of 54054 (00:00:00.600) to last exported GOP detected
!> dropping useless B-Frames @ GOP# 526 / new Timecode 00:04:17.991
!> dropping GOP# 527 @ orig.PTS 01:06:25.606 (358704578), errorcode: 20
!> Pics exp/cnt 15/15, inGOP PTS diff. 100ms, new Timecode 00:04:18.425
!> PTS difference of 60060 (00:00:00.667) to last exported GOP detected
!> dropping useless B-Frames @ GOP# 528 / new Timecode 00:04:18.425
packs: 4236735 100% 798847156

=============================================

It seems to mostly-* be happening with the 5.1 Video stream, and also mostly(or completely?) Telecined 23.976fps material.

* - I say "Mostly", as it may be either "mostly" or "completely" --- But not necessarily "completely", as so far with the limited testing I've done for various reasons I've been unable to verify the whether or not these are true "mostly" or "completely" .... I haven't for example yet "closely examined" frame by frame to see whether some of the Ad-based content where the problem is occuring to see whether it was "orignally" 23.976fps or 29.97fps video ...

However, I do know it's not specific to only NBC programming, as I caught it happening during some commericials during WLWT Local News .... I've also noticed it with some test captures happening much less frequently on 5.2(At the times it happened, indeed it was during commercial breaks+involved content in the "video window" which *could* have been 23.976fps material) ..

To give an idea how "signifcant" a problem this issue is, One evening earlier this week during NBC HD Programming(sourced from Film) I did a 15+ Minute capture test of WLWT's TS, and I could only demux+properly recover(with projectX such that Audio/video would be in Sync after remuxing) only about 3Min 46 sec of video from 5.1 ..

Also earlier this week, as a extra "check", I captured+ attempted to demux about 1/2 of NBC's HD broadcast of "Chuck" and it was a mess, but I had no problems whatsoever Demuxing/editing out commercial breaks then remuxing the other 1/2 of HD "chuck" from WDTN-DT ...

Oh, almost forgot -- I should also note I checked the Captured TS's with MPEG2-TS error checking software(MPEG2repair, TSpacketeditor), but no errors-* were found.

* - NO errors such as various encoding errors MPEG2repair can detect, or continuity/TEI errors which could potentially involve reception issues on my end ...

It will be interesting to see if/how the ThinkTV/CET merger effects the 3 DTV stations, HD and the other programming services involved, as well as CET/ThinkTV productions, the latter being something I'd personally certianly like to see more of, especially HD wise. As well as WCET's OTA operating schedule, given they shut down the transmitter between ~1am~6am 3 or 4 nights out of the week ...

Depending on how they do things, I would think it possible the merger could hopefully turn out to be a good thing in terms of HD quality and programming - for example, perhaps it will make possible less duplication of the same programming running on thinkTV/CET .....
I hope you are right. We watch a lot of programming on all three of these stations and all their subchannels, but I find myself trying to manually choose the repeat airings of a non-HD show when it is shown on the HD subchannel. Maybe this will put more HD on, all of the time, and more shows debuting on the HD channels. For example, the new "Cook's Country" is showing first on 14.2 (not HD), on Wednesday afternoons, even though the 'original air date' is always listed as the previous Saturday (and that episode is not on any PBS channel that Saturday) ... it then shows multiple times on various non-HD subchannels over the next week and a half or so, but that same episode does not show up in HD (on 14.6) until typically a week and a half after the first 14.2 airing. So basically you have to be in a full two-week delay if you want to watch it in HD.

Are the tower locations already locked-in with the government for the digital changeover? In other words, would it be possible that they would get a new, "common" tower, somewhere between Cincy and Dayton, for all three of the stations? Hopefully they'll all just stay where they are.

pjpjpjpj,

Stations submit applications to FCC for changes in their facilities(including tower location changes). It's usually a fairly long process involved.

For instance, WPTO digital originally had Construction permit for WKOI's tower, but before it went on the air, applied+received a CP MOD from FCC to move the digital station to WXIX's tower, it took them a couple of years or so from the time the CP MOD was granted to the time they were able to get on the air. However, Even though the record of the WPTO-DT at WKOI tower location Construction permit has long disappeared from FCC's Database, and they NEVER broadcast from there, Antennaweb still incorrectly shows WPTO digital location at WKOI tower site ... (Note that I have contacted CEA/antennaweb about that several times, but they've never fixed it) ..

Anyway, The info in the various articles/press releases about CET/ThinkTV merger did not go into any details regarding operational changes, but they seemed to say the thinkTV stations will continue to operate as "ThinkTV" stations and WCET would continue to operate as CET ...

I doubt any tower location changes would be involved with the "merger", but I'd suspect we may notice other "operational" changes. Worst case scenerio I could think of might involve discontinuing OTA operations for one or more of the stations, I have no idea whether or not they are considering anything like that, but of course for PBS, There is also KET .... I'm not sure how many areas have access to OTA signals from FOUR PBS member stations, 3 of them seperated by only a few miles ...

I would hope all 4(WPTD, WPTO, WCET, KET) stay on the air as I feel they all have different programming, except for maybe during the evening "prime" hours. I hope this leads to less subchannels, but PBS loves them. I am a little foggy on WPTD/WPTO/WCET as all 1080i main subchannel? I am not sure how ThinkTV is doing this without new encoders, but I don't watch as much PBS programming as I did several years ago. Hopefully, this can mean a happy medium with choice of channels and picture quality.

I'm not sure how many areas have access to OTA signals from FOUR PBS member stations, 3 of them seperated by only a few miles ...

Los Angeles has 4 (KCET, KOCE, KLCS, KVCR).

San Francisco has 4 (KQED, KTEH, KRCB, KCSM).

New York has 4, but you can't see them all from one location (WNET, WLIW, WNJB/WNJN, WEDW).

Philadelphia has 3 but used to have 4 (WHYY, WNJT/WNJS, WLVT, and WYBE is now Independent non-commercial).

Washington has 3 but used to have 5 (WETA, WHUT, WMPT/WFPT, and WNVT and WNVC used to be PBS but are now all foreign programming as "MHz").

So Cincinnati does have something pretty unique.

- Trip

WCPO goes digital for election

By John Kiesewetter
The Cincinnati Enquirer

WCPO-TV will make news - and history - tonight.
For the first time, a Cincinnati TV station will broadcast live local wall-to-wall election coverage on a digital channel, while simultaneously providing network news coverage on its main channel.

Channel 9's "Weather Tracker" weather channel will be pre-empted for Clyde Gray and Carol Williams to anchor election coverage from 6:30 p.m. to 2 a.m. It will appear on over-the-air digital Channel 9.2; on Time Warner Channels 12 (basic) or Channels 22 and 910 (digital cable); Insight Channel 71; and on the station's Web site.

On broadcast Channel 9, viewers will see ABC's usual national election night coverage starting at 6:30 p.m., with cutaways for local updates at 25 minutes and 55 minutes past each hour.

Gray and Williams also will anchor the local inserts during ABC's broadcasts. The updates will be simulcast on the digital channel, Bob Morford, Channel 9 news director, said.

"I think this is the wave of the future," Morford said.

Local stations have used their secondary digital channels and Web sites to provide video of events and political speeches, including visits here Sunday by presidential candidate Barack Obama and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin - but not complete newscasts.

Channels 5, 12 and 19 plan to stream video reports and updated results on their Web sites tonight. All four stations will scroll the latest election results across the bottom of the screen, and air local updates at approximately 25 and 55 minutes past each hour.

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 6 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Game:

8:15pm NFLN Denver at Cleveland $
Bob Papa, Cris Collinsworth

Sunday Day Games:

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Green Bay at Minnesota
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Tennessee at Chicago
Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Indianapolis at Pittsburgh
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms


Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – New York Giants at Philadelphia
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – San Francisco at Arizona+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers (none this week)
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:
Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Whoah! Hey! Surprise!

19 WXIX has their news/election coverage in HD tonight!!

See attachment for screen shot on a historic and surprising night.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=123616&d=1225842383

This also leaves WKRC as the only local big 4 affiliate that can't insert HD graphics.

nice...

This also leaves WKRC as the only local big 4 affiliate that can't insert HD graphics.

Look again later tonight.

Damn does Trish look goooooood in HD...;)

looks like 12 has hd graphics.. nice! Although not as nice as 19.. but its a start! well done 12 and 19

Look again later tonight.

Nice, Especially given (Unlike WXIX+WLWT when I checked it tonight) the preservation of proper proportions of the video content(no "fat wide people+ circles would be circles/etc no matter where they are on screen - i.e. no non-linear "stretching" thank goodness) when the local crawl is keyed in .... I couldn't stand what WXIX was doing with the distortions, so quickly switched to WRGT for the Fox coverage ...

WHIO, unexpectedly given what they've done in the past is also not "distorting" the video, but is covering up a small portion of the CBS crawl at bottom of video window ...

I also like what CBS is doing with the pillarbars tonight .....

WCPO of course is/has been the only commercial station in the area which has consistantly, and during all programming(not just during local news) properly format Aspect ratio(or very very close), no matter what is keyed in locally at bottom of screen(school closings info/etc) ... Including during the big Early March snowfall ....

WXIX Audio changed to DD 2.0 VS. the DD 5.1 it has been previously...Audio now on par with WKRC...

looks like 12 has hd graphics.. nice! Although not as nice as 19.. but its a start! well done 12 and 19

Nice, Especially given (Unlike WXIX+WLWT when I checked it tonight) the preservation of proper proportions of the video content

Glad to see WKRC can do local graphics, and also glad they're preserving aspect ratio (It seems like it may be coordinated with CBS as it covers up a specific area of the CBS broadcast which seems to be designed for the purpose). However, it's just a silly crawl which is pratically useless compared to what the other stations are doing (and even what WKRC is doing on analog 12).

I also like what CBS is doing with the pillarbars tonight .....NBC is using the wings as well.

WCPO of course is/has been the only commercial station in the area which has consistantly, and during all programming(not just during local news) properly format Aspect ratio, no matter what is keyed in locally at bottom of screen(school closings info/etc) ... Including during the big Early March snowfall ....Agreed and really wish other stations would do so as well. At one point on WXIX, with the WXIX bar, and several FOX bars, they had graphics covering more than the entire bottom half of the screen. All that was left was a small sliver of video at the top!

WXIX Audio changed to DD 2.0 VS. the DD 5.1 it has been previously...Audio now on par with WKRC...

Also ALOT of audio dropouts...WXIX is really dropping the ball with the switchover...Pretty disappointed overall...Too much 'blue'...HD not as sharp as say WCPO...

WCPO is the one to measure up to...

As for the onscreen graphics WRGT did it correctly...and their audio is 5.1...

Glad to see WKRC can do local graphics, and also glad they're preserving aspect ratio (It seems like it may be coordinated with CBS as it covers up a specific area of the CBS broadcast which seems to be designed for the purpose).


WHIO is back to the distortions last I looked, HD feed up, but WKRC dropped to SD ...


However, it's just a silly crawl which is pratically useless


It beat SD and distorted pics of any resolution IMO ... Distorted HD pics look just as crappy as distorted SD pics ..Worse/worse distortions actually given the amount of the 16x9 frame taken up by these local election+school closing graphics vs. the case with 4x3 frame ...


Agreed and really wish other stations would do so as well.


I edited my above post on that a bit, as I think there may still be a minor "distortion" occuring *occasionally* on WCPO .... It's probably just me, but sometimes it seems to be there sometimes not, or it's just hard to tell at times whether it's there or not without a crosshatch+Circles pattern up+some careful measuring -

It's weird, and tonight only noticed it during certian shots of Gibson/stephanopolous(spelling?), and at first during McCain's concession speech -- It was gone by the time I looked again later in speech)- And, during a local 16x9SD/Letterboxed+pillarboxed matarese promo(first time I've noticed it occuring during Non-ABC content) made me wonder if it was on ABC's end until I A/B'ed it at one point with WKEF .... -- as If, at times, they aren't quite pulling in the sides quite enough, or perhaps a bit of a non-linear "stretch" may be involved ... When I do notice it, It's still very minor compared to what everyone else does *including* on the analog stations -- when they just "squeeze in" election info/school closings info which takes up a signifcant portion of frame at bottom(instead of covering up bottom of frame as WLWT/WKRC often does with this sort of thing ONLY during their local news) without pulling in the sides as is necessary to preserve proper AR ... But, with WLWT often doing something not as "good" as WCPO but not as bad as everyone else, although I thought what they did tonight looked pretty bad tonight during NBC HD feed with the local election graphics up ---

I should probably note, in the past (SD wise) WRGT/WKEF *has* occasionally preserved proper AR during some programming by putting video in a window and putting local weather info in sidebar, but usually only very temporarily, and more often during their local news -- as they often do the hideous distortions as well ...

It's been nice HD wise over the past 7 years I've been watching HD/DTV at the times stations didn't have the capability to key in local graphics and just left the "clean" net HD feed up, with the analog station looking like crap --- and that's still going on from some of the Dayton stations, but probably not for long. Which from my perspective, just means they're going to lose my eyeballs(such as to WCPO or to a book or something else) whenever they "distort" anything ..... Sorry, but I just can't watch that ...

Hmmm ... I didn't get a chance to check it earlier, I've fired up Tsreader a few times since about 11:15pm, and looks to me like whatever 16x9 feed WXIX is currently using from Fox, WXIX is encoding it locally(taking the feed from the splicer and reencoding it perhaps???? ) ... It's 15Mb/s CBR, and as splicer010 mentioned, DD 2.0 currently ....

Also, BTW -- Since sometime around 11pm I think, WRGT+WDKY haven't been running election coverage, but instead have been running regular programming (Simpsons/etc) ...

However, At 11:58pm WRGT switched to 4x3 election feed (barack's victory speech) -- Then about a minute later switched to the HD feed from the Splicer (VBR/DD 5.1 running about 11Mb/s at the moment vs. 15Mb/s CBR for the same video from WXIX (with the WXIX local election graphics) ..... WDKY still running regular programming (70's show at 12am) ... I'm Too lazy at the moment to use the rotor to see if WTTE-DT is coming in ....

Very interesting .....

Anyone notice the audio drop outs with digital 19.1 during the news? It cuts out ever few minutes ever since they started doing the hd news and switched to 2.0 audio from 5.1.

Anyone notice the audio drop outs with digital 19.1 during the news? It cuts out ever few minutes ever since they started doing the hd news and switched to 2.0 audio from 5.1.

Yes! It was quite annoying. :eek:

Overall, it looks like they have some significant glitches to work out still. (Were the red cue lights over the cameras working?) And it appears that they're starting their HD local news a few steps behind WCPO in some aspects when they started theirs. I was surprised that the weather graphics were still in 4:3 and Steve Horstmeyer was superimposed in 16:9 HD. Talk about an optical illusion when he backed into the "FOX19HD" graphic on the right-hand side! (At least he could say that he did the weather in HD before anyone at WKRC though. :p)

Oh well, WXIX had the guts to take a chance and spring their HD local news on us out of the blue, especially since they haven't been in their new studio that long. Great job guys. Keep getting those bugs out! :D

were they in hd today?

Anyone notice the audio drop outs with digital 19.1 during the news? It cuts out ever few minutes ever since they started doing the hd news and switched to 2.0 audio from 5.1.

Ummm...Yeah...Started last night...;)Also ALOT of audio dropouts...WXIX is really dropping the ball with the switchover...Pretty disappointed overall