The nice thing about the bow-ties is they take up so little room, being flat and all. I have a transmitted channel 4 down here that a lot of people have trouble with, but I get it fine on a "7-69" combo, and on a yagi style uhf as well.

The one I posted tries to get 4, and succeeds sometimes (from 30 miles.) I'd just do the bow-tie and see what happens, you never know how an antenna will work until you get it in. Of course if you're going to end up with 3 or 4 vhf channels after the change, something like the 2016 would make more sense. I use a WG 7-69 combo on the roof and I'm loving it.

but they are going to 12 .. which is one or two shy of uhf.. :) -- all depends on the antenna


Ugh, just googled a bit and it turns out WKRC-HD is going VHF in 2009?
Perhaps I should not order this UHF only antenna! :confused:

Christmas in Rockefeller Center...WLWT-DT...OTA...

WOW!!! This is simply the BEST HD I have seen on this channel bar none!!! Bravo NBC!!! Bravo WLWT-DT!!!

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5-6 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Game:

8:15pm NFLN - Oakland at San Diego $
Bob Papa, Cris Collinsworth

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Indianapolis
Ian Eagle, Solomon Wilcots

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Philadelphia at NY Giants
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Dallas at Pittsburgh
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Washington at Baltimore
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Tampa Bay at Carolina+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers (none this week)
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:
Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

but they are going to 12 .. which is one or two shy of uhf.. :) -- all depends on the antenna

Except that there is a HUGE gap between Ch13 & 14.

Ch12 DTV is on 207 mHz; Ch14 DTV is on 473 mHz.

Frequencies between the top of Ch13 (216 mHz) and the bottom of Ch14 (470 mhz) are used by other services.

A good number of UHF-only antennas do not do well on Ch13 and down...Even in town.

Perhaps I should not order this UHF only antenna!


It is probably a good choice for you for UHF reception, and should perform significantly better on UHF than for example, a CM2016. You could add a VHF/UHF combiner(Such as CM #0549) and a VHF-HI antenna later if you need it, and along the lines of XmtrMan's post there's a good chance you will ...

Rabbit Ears, or even better this antenna would perform better on Hi-VHF than a DB4 :

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html

If you want to make one of those, Maybe cut it for about 201 MHZ, in between 10+12, and you'll probably wan't/need to use a balun+coax between antenna+CM0549VHF input rather than twinlead as the transmission line to TV as is explained in the article.


Rabbit ears (Radio Shack $20 HD contraption someone recommended here as a good cheapie) get me WHIOHD and WSTRHD and that's it!


Keep in mind, it's often the case there is a little more involved to acheiving reliable OTA DTV reception than just sitting the antenna somewhere(such as on top of TV) and running an "autoscan" ....

For example, if you haven't already tried it, Hook up your current antenna, and try direct access tuning to (if your receiver has such a feature, if it doesn't you're probably screwed) the RF channels for the various stations in area (such as say, 35 for WLWT-DT). Using your receiver's signal meter(assuming it has one), then adjust(move to different spots/etc) antenna for best results ... Keep in mind, the Virtual channel info can't be decoded from any given station(including during an "autoscan") until a signal sufficent for reception is achieved.

You may need different antenna orientation/placement for reception of different stations (even in some cases if they are in same direction due to issues such as multipath) .....


We should start a ghetto Home Theater contest.


http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/1647R-23677

New guy here from Maineville Ohio.

I get wcpo 9.1 on my Panasonic hdtv over T/W cable Qam tuner, but

can't get 9.1 ota with my Indoor Antenna and RCA converter box , or my Samsung HDTV when on the Antenna.

I have two different rabbit ear indoor antenna's that I am experimenting with. One Radio Shack amplified antenna and one unamplified one.

I get most all the other Cincinnati and Dayton, Oh HD channel Ota ok.

pvee - where at in maineville?

New guy here from Maineville Ohio.

I get wcpo 9.1 on my Panasonic hdtv over T/W cable Qam tuner, but

can't get 9.1 ota with my Indoor Antenna and RCA converter box , or my Samsung HDTV when on the Antenna.

I have two different rabbit ear indoor antenna's that I am experimenting with. One Radio Shack amplified antenna and one unamplified one.

I get most all the other Cincinnati and Dayton, Oh HD channel Ota ok.

You'll have that...CH9 is a PITA to get out here...Especially reliably...You'll want to look into getting an outdoor antenna...It may work in your attic though...You need the antenna as high as you can get it...Welcome to the forum!!! ;)

pvee - where at in maineville?


Hamilton ave, off of Overbrook........

You'll have that...CH9 is a PITA to get out here...Especially reliably...You'll want to look into getting an outdoor antenna...It may work in your attic though...You need the antenna as high as you can get it...Welcome to the forum!!! ;)

You guys probably already discussed this in great detail but I was wondering if WCPO DT is going to stay on that frquency and power level.

If so seems like it would be a problem with their local advertisers.

If you can get the same program on a Dayton station why go to all the trouble to get wcpo Cincinnati.
And you can get local news and info on 5,12, 19 so seems like they would get left out except for the geeks like me that battle it just for the fun of it.!!

They are staying on channel 10 but plan to relocate to the top of their tower versus the side where they are now. They plan a very slight power increase at that time.

- Trip

WCPO is staying on 10, and what could be even worse news for you, WKRC is moving from 31 to 12. So you will have to fight the battle of getting two VHF channels, unless you want to just grab the Dayton affiliates instead.

I get the Dayton channels also but I want both for those days that Dayton is showing one football game and Cincinnati a different game at the same time...Many times my wife and I could only watch da Bears from the Dayton channels...I am hoping that by changing the antenna position that CH9 will be more stable and reliable...Though I will feel bad for those that had antennas installed already if it will affect their reception...

CH12 on the other hand will be another issue that will need to be addressed soon enough...

Thanks for all the info.
This forum is really informative.

I just wonder how many people are buying HDTV's at Wal-mart etc that have no idea what they are up against.

Most of those HDTV's don't seem to have QAM tuners and some are just cable ready !!

Just guessing I would say at least 85% of the TV's sold today have QAM tuners and all have ATSC tuners as mandated a couple of years ago...

Holy smokes this thread is huge. I can't seem to find the answer to a basic question...

Who has a better PQ? Time Warner or Direct TV?

Holy smokes this thread is huge. I can't seem to find the answer to a basic question...

Who has a better PQ? Time Warner or Direct TV?

Subjective...

Subjective...
Not really... at this point, unless something has changed, Time Warner in this area passes the video data through unchanged. DirecTV re-compresses it with mpeg-4. Whether or not you can see a difference might be subjective, but the fact is it is impossible for DirecTV to look better than Time Warner at this point.

Either way OTA will give an equal or greater quality of picture than satellite or cable.

Not really... at this point, unless something has changed, Time Warner in this area passes the video data through unchanged. DirecTV re-compresses it with mpeg-4. Whether or not you can see a difference might be subjective, but the fact is it is impossible for DirecTV to look better than Time Warner at this point.

Either way OTA will give an equal or greater quality of picture than satellite or cable.

First, while OTA remains all MPEG-2, many DBS/cable program providers have made the switch to providing content already in MPEG-4. Thus, for those channels that are supplied to DirecTV and TWC already in MPEG-4, DIRECTV should look as good if not better than TWC (assuming DirecTV does not compress it further, and reports are that it does not). TWC has to recompress the same content to MPEG-2.

Before DirecTV's switch to MPEG-4, the picture quality was inferior to TWC. When I last compared them side by side (after DirecTV's adoption of MPEG-4), I could not notice a significant difference. Considering the number of HD channel offerings compared to TWC, I think DirecTV wins hands down.

I agree that in the local market, OTA is best. Don't know if this is a trend or not, but in some OTA markets, broadcasters are giving cable/satellite a full bitrate HD feed BEFORE the addition and recompression necessary due to subchannels. With all the talk about adding subchannels (thistv, etc), I could envision a day when the uncompressed HD feed is only provided to cable/satellite and OTA viewers left with 7+ channels of SD programming.

First, while OTA remains all MPEG-2, many DBS/cable program providers have made the switch to providing content already in MPEG-4. Thus, for those channels that are supplied to DirecTV and TWC already in MPEG-4, DIRECTV should look as good if not better than TWC (assuming DirecTV does not compress it further, and reports are that it does not).

The same can be said for DISH Network who also uses MPEG-4 for Cincinnati HD locals.

Originally Posted by jimp2244
Not really...

As I said...Subjective... ;)


Before DirecTV's switch to MPEG-4, the picture quality was inferior to TWC. When I last compared them side by side (after DirecTV's adoption of MPEG-4), I could not notice a significant difference. Considering the number of HD channel offerings compared to TWC, I think DirecTV wins hands down.

John Kiesewetter reports that at 7:30 PM on December 17, 2008, all of the broadcast stations in Ohio will perform a DTV test (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3acac 35fe3-e147-4f80-a88c-a793e22220a6&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com). They'll interrupt their programming on their analog channels with warnings about the upcoming analog signal shutdown and conversion to digital.

There will be a 20-person phone bank set up at WCET to collect local calls. Apparently they're thinking it won't be enough to handle the volume of people calling with questions. :eek:

The old VHF issue I bet pvee. You antenna is probably UHF.

With all the talk about adding subchannels (thistv, etc), I could envision a day when the uncompressed HD feed is only provided to cable/satellite and OTA viewers left with 7+ channels of SD programming.

Nah - Think about the backlash of all of those people who, instead of buying a converter box, sprung for a $1000+ HDTV, and would then have NO HD to watch. The negative publicity would be overwhelming.

Too many people still watch OTA only, and all the "local" stations are too proud of their HD status. I can't see them just deciding to one day take that away from all the OTA people, in order to give them an extra shopping channel and another station showing re-runs of 1960s sitcoms.

I think the OTA battle of the future will be for more and better HD, not for "more channels, period". I'm actually waiting for the day when a new encoding method is invented that allows nearly lossless compression/decompression and gives stations the ability to send 2 HD channels within their stream, rather than one HD and 5 SD.

I'm actually waiting for the day when a new encoding method is invented that allows nearly lossless compression/decompression and gives stations the ability to send 2 HD channels within their stream, rather than one HD and 5 SD.

This technology exists. It's called "MPEG-4" and it's too late now to use it in ATSC. We're stuck with MPEG-2 for a long time.

- Trip

I think the OTA battle of the future will be for more and better HD, not for "more channels, period".

All of us "tech types" would like to see that but since the stations are not run by techies we will likely never see that. MONEY is the driving force in TV and the more ads that they can sell (on more subchannels) the more that they will be the determining factor for a lot of stations.

All of us "tech types" would like to see that but since the stations are not run by techies we will likely never see that. MONEY is the driving force in TV and the more ads that they can sell (on more subchannels) the more that they will be the determining factor for a lot of stations.

I do agree...However a HD channel can command top rates while the SD subchannels will not...It is as you said afterall...MONEY is the driving force...;)

I think the OTA battle of the future will be for more and better HD...........

Let's hope this is true, whether you watch HDTV via OTA, cable or satellite. In many markets, including Indy and Fort Wayne, many of the local DTV/HDTV stations are received by cable and satellite companies via OTA signals, as opposed to direct feeds. In this case, if the OTA feed is bad, it's not going to be any better via cable or satellite.

Steve

I agree that in the local market, OTA is best.This is what I was addressing. For local broadcast channels, it is impossible for DirecTV to look better than Time Warner, and it is also impossible for either to look better than OTA. There are too many variables in cable/satellite-only channels to make any sort of general statement that satellite or cable has a better picture.

Don't know if this is a trend or not, but in some OTA markets, broadcasters are giving cable/satellite a full bitrate HD feed BEFORE the addition and recompression necessary due to subchannels. With all the talk about adding subchannels (thistv, etc), I could envision a day when the uncompressed HD feed is only provided to cable/satellite and OTA viewers left with 7+ channels of SD programming.Nobody is watching "uncompressed" or "full bitrate" HD. Nobody even distrubutes "uncompressed HD." I know what you are trying to say though (stations sending a higher bitrate feed to cable or satellite) but I don't see it happening as it's an added expense for the local station... Why would they want to pay for two encoders (one for OTA and one for cable/satellite), and what's in it for them - they are in the broadcast business so why would they want to drive viewers to pay tv?

For local broadcast channels, it is impossible for DirecTV to look better than Time Warner.

That would be true if there wasn't A LOT of transmission equipment between the cable company's head end and the viewer. HOWEVER, there is, and even though the signal is digital the cable companies can manage to screw it up. I can't say how well Time Warner does but Insight over here in Northern Kentucky does not do a great job (dropped frames, audio problems). Their signal level vary all over the place from day to day and getting in touch with someone that really understands (and can get the problem fixed) is next to impossible. While cable's HD local channels SHOULD always look better than either satellite company's HD locals, in reality, that isn't the case.

This is what I was addressing. For local broadcast channels, it is impossible for DirecTV to look better than Time Warner, and it is also impossible for either to look better than OTA. There are too many variables in cable/satellite-only channels to make any sort of general statement that satellite or cable has a better picture.

Nobody is watching "uncompressed" or "full bitrate" HD. Nobody even distrubutes "uncompressed HD." I know what you are trying to say though (stations sending a higher bitrate feed to cable or satellite) but I don't see it happening as it's an added expense for the local station... Why would they want to pay for two encoders (one for OTA and one for cable/satellite), and what's in it for them - they are in the broadcast business so why would they want to drive viewers to pay tv?

As to your first point, it is possible for DBS/cable to look better than OTA if the local networks provide the network stream directly to the providers BEFORE adding and recompressing for subchannels. When I refer to "full bitrate" and "uncompressed" I was referring to the full 19.4 mbps allowed under the atsc standard.

Look on the boards here and you can see the financial incentive for local broadcasters to add subchannel after subchannel. Providers like DirecTV might be willing to pay more for retransmission if the local broadcasters provide, perhaps exclusively, a better looking product. I hope it doesn't happen, but it is a possibility as we continue to go down the path of additional subchannels. I would be willing to pay more if the picture quality of local OTA is degraded because of subchannels.

As to your first point, it is possible for DBS/cable to look better than OTA if the local networks provide the network stream directly to the providers BEFORE adding and recompressing for subchannels.No station in this area does this.
When I refer to "full bitrate" and "uncompressed" I was referring to the full 19.4 mbps allowed under the atsc standard.Well, if they're not sending it OTA, then ATSC is irrelevant, so why not send it at 40Mbps? or 200Mbps???

Look on the boards here and you can see the financial incentive for local broadcasters to add subchannel after subchannel. Providers like DirecTV might be willing to pay more for retransmission if the local broadcasters provide, perhaps exclusively, a better looking product. I hope it doesn't happen, but it is a possibility as we continue to go down the path of additional subchannels. I would be willing to pay more if the picture quality of local OTA is degraded because of subchannels.
I certainly hope that doesn't happen. If it does, I will either deal with lower quality or stop watching. I'm not going to reward broadcasters with more money for acting against my best interest.

The old VHF issue I bet pvee. You antenna is probably UHF.

And, unfortunetly, it appears Winegard has discontinued their YA-6713 VHF-HI antenna(I wanted to mention it in my earlier response concerning possible VHF antenna choices for you) :

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=YA6713

Does anyone else know of a similar VHF-HI antenna now available/ on the market? (other than the expensive Blonder-tongue antennas) ... Not for me, as If I ever decide to use a Hi-VHF antenna, it would probably be YA-1713 or Funke PSP-1922, but I suspect many might want an option for a bit smaller Hi-VHF antenna ...

YA-6713 was a good option for VHF-HI reception for folks wanting something smaller/less cumbersome than a VHF/UHF combo. Combined with a DB4/CM4221/etc. for UHF, such that they could acheive decent performance on both HI-VHF and UHF ... It might even be a good option for indoors/attic use .....

I suspect neither Indoor antennas or "rabbit ears", or UHF antennas with less gain and/or directivity on VHF than "rabbit ears" are going to cut it on VHF for a lot of folks -- And, It's not because the station is doing something "wrong" ..... For one thing, Our OTA system (DTV included) wasn't really designed for use with indoor antennas, it's nice it sometimes works out, but you can't count on it ...

For another thing, various household applicances(with electric motors in them) the antenna is likely to be near(or near A/C wiring) when placed indoors, and in some cases electronic devices often cause various sorts of interference which are usually much more of a problem on VHF than UHF. Impulse noise being much more of a problem on VHF-lo than VHF-HI, and much more of an issue on VHF-HI than UHF ... For more info see the "You have to get the rabbit ear antenna away from interference." section beginning aout 1/2way down the page here:

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html

Anyway, for VHF/FM reception, I currently use Winegard PR5030 (now called "HD5030"). It's mounted outdoors, about 30FT up.

It's certianly not the best of VHF antennas, but it works pretty well for me -- I don't get them all the time, but it is unusual if WSYX-DT 13 Columbus(78 Miles), or WDKY-DT 4(118 Miles), Lexington isn't coming in solid from time to time on a daily basis. Note the "biggest parts" of this antenna are for lo-VHF(54~88MHZ - Ch 2~6) reception, they don't "help" for channel 7~13(174~216MHZ) -- On channel 7~13, this antenna performs about the same as the much smaller Winegard YA-6713. There's a Pic/info on the HD5030 it at top of page here :

http://www.winegard.com/offair/vhf.htm

Attached below is pic of my WKRC analog 12 reception (yeah, there are some ghosts in Winter when leaves are off trees) -- Screenshot taken with Hauppauge WinTV-HVR1600's analog tuner, but it's kinda "at the end of the line" as I don't use it much/I have a LOT of stuff in line before it(VCR, Dish 311, a couple of 2 way splitters) ....

Nevertheless, For the most part, I suspect if folks can acheive similar reception of 9 or 12 analog currently(which in most cases they'll be able to do with a outdoor VHF antenna with a bit of gain+directivity --- the sort of antenna OTA was designed for use with --- and if they are within 55 "crow fly" miles or so of Downtown Cincinnati) ..... chances are very, very good they'll be able to achieve reliable reception of WCPO-DT 10 currently, and WCPO-DT 10/WKRC-DT 12 post-transition ....

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

I have the low-VHF version of it, it's pretty nice. Definitely delivered an improvement over the Ghostkiller. There's also a Y10. I know nothing about it other than that I assume it's got more gain.

- Trip

Thanks Trip,

Yep, Antennacraft Y5-7-13 looks like a decent relatively small VHF-hi antenna similar to YA6713 ... Looks like it Should perform better than most small~medium size VHF/UHF combos on VHF-HI -- Nice price too ...

Lexington's WKYT, which previously has shown both CBS and CW in HD, but both in 720p with fairly poor quality, has decided to drop the CW subchannel to 480i to improve picture quality on the CBS HD channel.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15243437#post15243437 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15243437#post15243437)

I thought it was interesting that they are dropping the CW subchannel to 480i but then keeping the CBS HD channel at 720p instead of showing it at its native 1080i. If I could receive them (I have never been able to see any trace of WKYT-DT...) it would make for a good comparison with WKRC-DT. I assume the difference will be the tradeoff between the loss of detail in the cross-conversion to 720p versus the macroblocking and artifacting from the insufficient-for-1080i 9-14Mbps that WKRC sends.

I'm kinda suprised WKRC has yet to debut their HD Newscast. Is there even a rumored date?

Next week, early in the morning on Tuesday, December 16, 2008, WKRC will be conducting tests of the new Ch12 DTV transmitter into the antenna.
This is a "dress rehearsal" for the February, 2009 changeover.

The plan is to shut down the analog transmitter shortly after 1:30AM then make the necessary transmission line changes to connect the DTV transmitter to the antenna. Hopefully this changeover will take less than a half hour. But, since this is the first time we're doing this, it might take longer to make the pieces fit.

The digital transmitter will then be operated into the antenna for as long a period of time as possible. The analog transmitter will have to be reconnected and back on the air by 4:30AM.

If any of you are niteowls (or get up really early in the morning), we would appreciate signal reports on channel 12 either here or to a special email address we have set up for this test:

wkrcdtv (at) gmail (dot) com

Note that the CH31 transmitter will remain on the air during this test and both transmitters will be transmitting the same transport stream. So a simple channel re-scan on your receiver may or may not put you on channel 12.

Also, I'm not prepared to discuss anything other than the transmitter test.
(i.e. HD news or 5.1 audio)

Thanks.

Bob Craig

I'm kinda suprised WKRC has yet to debut their HD Newscast. Is there even a rumored date?

WLWT-DT has yet to do the same...

WLWT-DT has yet to do the same...
WLWT said "sometime next year," but WKRC I believe was supposed to do it by the end of this year. I'm guessing that's why davcole was asking (only 22 days left in 2008).

Next week, early in the morning on Tuesday, December 16, 2008, WKRC will be conducting tests of the new Ch12 DTV transmitter into the antenna.
This is a "dress rehearsal" for the February, 2009 changeover.
Thanks for the info. I will try to stay up and submit a report! Interesting that you guys chose the day before the Ohio Association of Broadcasters Digital TV Test day.

Lexington's WKYT, which previously has shown both CBS and CW in HD, but both in 720p with fairly poor quality, has decided to drop the CW subchannel to 480i to improve picture quality on the CBS HD channel.
Hey, look at that, some support to my theory that the future will be more focused on better HD rather than more subchannels.... :)

I caught the last half of the WXIX 10:00 PM news last night. It appears that they have worked out a lot of their initial HD bugs, including the sound dropping out. Some more of their graphics were 16:9. Some of their clips were stretched 4:3. And they interviewed Simon Kenton's football team during sports and that appeared to be in HD. Still, their weather radar graphics are 4:3 and they're sending sound in Dolby 2/0, but overall it's a significant improvement. :)

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

I have the low-VHF version of it, it's pretty nice. Definitely delivered an improvement over the Ghostkiller. There's also a Y10. I know nothing about it other than that I assume it's got more gain.

- Trip

Just ordered this antenna...Thanks for the link Trip:)...I am hoping it will bring in CH10...WCPO-DT...with some stability compared to the VERY UN-stable reception I get currently...

I am also hopeful that when CH12...WKRC-DT...comes online that I will be set for that as well...

The Y10 only has a 3db increase in gain at more than twice the price...with shipping that is...that I feel this antenna should be sufficient...

I also purchased a UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner to join the 2 antennas...

I caught the last half of the WXIX 10:00 PM news last night. It appears that they have worked out a lot of their initial HD bugs, including the sound dropping out. Some more of their graphics were 16:9. Some of their clips were stretched 4:3. And they interviewed Simon Kenton's football team during sports and that appeared to be in HD. Still, their weather radar graphics are 4:3 and they're sending sound in Dolby 2/0, but overall it's a significant improvement. :)

Yes...The audio dropout issue has not been occuring as of late...The PQ does seem to be somewhat improved also...though I do still feel it is nowhere the quality of the WCPO-DT HD newscast...And they REALLY need to get the weather in 16:9...As a whole not bad though...I do watch it a couple of times a week...

The Y10 only has a 3db increase in gain at more than twice the price...with shipping that is...that I feel this antenna should be sufficient...If my brain is working properly this morning, that's twice as much gain... The one you purchased will probably be fine though.

If my brain is working properly this morning, that's twice as much gain... The one you purchased will probably be fine though.

Well actually it is only 2.5db gain...9.4 vs. 6.9...;)

dB is logarhythmic. Each doubling of power is +3dB, each 1/2'ing is about -3dB.

"twice as much" signal, or losing "1/2 the signal"(~3dB - also, about the loss from splitting the signal once) may seem like a lot, but it really isn't for most within the coverage area.

Except in the outer portions of coverage area(or due to terrain or other attenuation issues/having antenna indoors/et), in free space you'll typically have several 10's of dB MORE signal than is needed to acheive reliable DTV reception, even if the antenna provides NO gain.

Which often is of course a good thing, along with increased directivity of a directional outdoor antenna to "reject" interference/multipath in directions antenna isn't aimed.

For example, the noise from say, a nearby lightning strike can easily overwhelm a fairly strong signal on VHF(especially VHF-LO) for a very short period, or more continously if the same sort of noise is being produced by a nearby electric motor, or lawn mower ignition system/etc, or only when that car with ignition system "issues" drives by your house ...... with analog, you see this sorts of interference as "static", with DTV(if it's strong enough such that the desired signal drops below ~15dB S/N), if strong enough it can cause complete "dropout" ......


I thought it was interesting that they are dropping the CW subchannel to 480i but then keeping the CBS HD channel at 720p instead of showing it at its native 1080i.


They've done that before. Up until about mid 2007(I think that's around when they started sending the 2 720p streams), KYT was sending 720P for CBS, 480i for the SD subchannels. They've usually had two SD subchannels, one of them when I've seen them is a weather radar map.


If I could receive them (I have never been able to see any trace of WKYT-DT...) it would make for a good comparison with WKRC-DT.


I get them here occasionally. They do have a bit of a null in their pattern our way, however, and I don't see them as much as I do stations like WDKY-DT or WUPX-DT ... WSYX-DT often seems to be blasting in off sidelobe as well in some cases when WKYT-DT might otherwise be receivable.


I assume the difference will be the tradeoff between the loss of detail in the cross-conversion to 720p versus the macroblocking and artifacting from the insufficient-for-1080i 9-14Mbps that WKRC sends ..


More or less that was my impression, from what I recall from the short periods I had a chance to make comparision when I was receiving WKYT (prior to them sending 2 720p streams) during CBS HD programming.

However, I might be remembering it wrong, but I don't recall their conversion to 720p perhaps looking as good as it does/how it works from KET, where the loss of detail you speak of seems quite "mininmal" from what I can tell. Especially when you compare it to the loss of detail that occurs(when it occurs, which is often) with the blocking issues from the other PBS member stations in the area ...

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like from WKYT now .... Might be a while before I can get a updated TSreader cap from them though, as my ATSC cap card in PC doesn't do as well selectivity(perhaps even sensitivity) wise than my other DTV receivers ....

Oh, BTW, I might be seeing things, but it seems to me WHIO may have made some improvements (new encoder perhaps?) recently .... I seem to be seeing less blocking issues during difficult to encode content (NFL football, HD Entertainment tonight) ... Still some blocking and mosquito noise issues, but unless I'm seeing things, it seems to look better than it used to (which was about the same as WKRC )

Well...I guess I have to wait abit for the antenna:

Thank you for your recent order. We are unable to promptly ship your order because we are temporarily out of stock on one or more of the items within your order. Please be aware that the backorder status may be active for up to 1-2 weeks.

The following item in your order is currently backordered:

Backordered Item: AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 Highband-Broadband VHF HD Yagi for Channels 7-13 (Y5-7-13)

Kinda would have been nice to know this when I was ordering...I could have found one somewhere else...still could probably...but is it really worth the hassle??? Naaaa...It is ordered...It is payed for...I am in no emergency rush for it...But still...;)

Antennacraft's Distributor info shows Dayton Wintronic and MCM in Centerville are among their distrubitors (Note: I've bought stuff from Wintronic before, was "shrepco" in the old days, they're fine folks) :

http://www.antennacraft.net/states/OH.html

Also, it says you can buy from them direct :

http://www.antennacraft.net/web_prices.html

Might be a while before I can get a updated TSreader cap from them though, as my ATSC cap card in PC doesn't do as well selectivity(perhaps even sensitivity) wise than my other DTV receivers ....If you get in the market for another PC ATSC tuner card, I would highly recommend the DVICO Fusion 7 series cards. They have one of the later tuner chipsets and receive more stations/more stably than my ATI and Hauppauge ATSC tuner. Make sure to get the 7 series and not the 5 series though. As an example, the Fusion 7 card I have can receive all of the Cincinnati stations even when my antenna is pointed at Dayton. My Hauppauge and ATI DTV Wonder cards don't receive ANY. I've generally found that the Fusion 7 card performs as well as the Zenith/LG tuner that is in the Zenith digital converter boxes (quite good).

I find the Fusion 5 performs better on weak signals than the chip that's in the Fusion 7. I have a Pinnacle with the same chip.

The Zenith outperforms them both.

Can't speak for multipath.

- Trip

Thanks for the thoughts guys.


If you get in the market for another PC ATSC tuner card,


For improved Dx'ing via the "PC", I've been looking around a bit and thinking about it, because it's fun to get/archive TS caps from them and/or TSreader HTML output to send to trip ;)

But, I think I'm going to wait a while and see what develops concerning such things as ATSC M/H, as, if stations start using it, if possible I'd like to have something which supports it -- Although M/H is intended for mobile/handheld devices, Dx'ing of the M/H streams using hi-gain fixed antenna could be REALLY fun given reports I have seen suggest signals may be decodable with as little as 4dB SNR vs. ~15dB SNR for what we have now ;)

Mostly I use Hauppauge winTV HVR-1600 for the use you'd expect for Local DTV/HD and HTPC use, it works perfectly here for that. I believe It uses Conexant CX24227 for the 8VSB (also does QAM) demod, I think that's a 4th or 5th generation chip. "Multipath wise" it works fairly well here - not as good as Zenith DTT900, or ATSC receivers in Phillips/mag DVD/HDD recorders I have, but better than 3rd or 4th generation Zenith, Hisense, and ATSC receiver internal to Sony KD34XBR960 HDTV.

It (HVR1600) does decode most dayton stations or Cincinnati stations to some extent with antenna aimed the "wrong way", such as towards Cincy and receiving Dayton stations. Exceptions are stations like WHIO-DT and WBDT-DT, and that's mostly due to signal strength rather than multipath given I'm right in their biggest nulls, and they are in my XG91's biggest null(more or less) when I have it aimed at Cincinnati. Which is a good thing, actually and is why I often "see" for instance WLEX 18 through WBDT-DT's "snow" ...

But "dx'ing wise", It's been the case on many occasions I can lock and decode weak DTV signals on other receivers, but I can get nothing decodable with the HVR-1600 .. especially when there are nearby adjacent channel(or possibly even N +/-2) blowtorch locals, even analog signals involved ....

It's not that there's necessarily probably a major difference in the performance between it, and say, the tuner, AGC and 8VSB demod in a DTT900, but even small differences can seem like big ones when you are working with signals just at threshold for decoding DTV with blow torch locals right next door ....

Now, that's not saying I haven't had any success Dx'ing with it. See attached screencap for instance - of course, nevertheless I missed getting a good screencap when it was actually decoding WDEF-DT 47, Chattanooga, TN(311 miles) fairly well --- But I'm not generally going to spend time with it while Dx'ing(or "hook it up" to antenna for use as a "primary" DX receiver) when I'm going to see more with say, DTT900 ...

The main issue with it for dx'ing here seems to involve it's performance selectivity wise, especially perhaps on VHF, most especially perhaps on VHF-LO. At least in the relatively harsh RF enviornment I'm "giving" it(trying to decode weak signals when relatively strong and amplified signals are present), it certianly seems to provide poor performance in comparision to all the other receivers here, perhaps especially on VHF, most especially VHF-LO ..... I wouldn't even be surprised if the thing could have even more issues in harsher envirornments/when stronger local signals are involved ...

For instance, When WDKY-DT is decoding perfectly on anything else(and Zenith DTT900 and the Philips/Mag DVD recorders will lock and decode when WDKY-DT is about 2~3db weaker than what it takes for everything else except the Hauppauge which takes more from them), given for example use of a two way splitter and equal lengths of coax feeding each receiver I'm comparing it with, It won't decode on HVR-1600 won't ....

However, when WDKY-DT gets just a bit stronger than that, *ONLY* if I add some additional attenuation before HVR1600(or with not quite as much from WDKY if I knock down WLWT 5 video carrier a bit with a notch filter) will it decode ... This seems to suggest it's selectivity is certianly NOT very good on lo-VHF vs other receivers I'm using ..... Especially given there is 4MHZ between channel 4 and 5, and that the N+1 analog 32 miles away(although in same direction) really probably shouldn't cause a problem here(and doesn't with my other receivers) ..


The Zenith outperforms them both.


Yeah, DTT900 is certianly the best receiver I have here for Dx'ing ... The performance of ATSC receivers in Phillips/Mag DVD/HDD recorders(again, at least given use of preamps/etc I'm using) I have though have so far been identical, or so close to identical to the DTT900's performance it's not even worth mentioning, for every test I've tried. And the Zenith HDV420 (except on VHF-LO) really isn't that far behind any of those, except multipath-Handling wise .... But of course, the Phillips/Maggie DVD/HDDrecorders don't have signal meters of any sort for DTV, which is silly, and pretty much a must for dx'ing ...

Anyway, What'd I'd want for the PC(besides future capability to acquire a lock on the M/H streams), for improved Dx'ing would have to perform as well as Zenith DTT900 both sensitivity and selectivity wise across all 3 TV bands, or it's not worth it to me to spend the $ to "upgrade" my current ATSC card, .... Especially given what's going to happen when the WSD's (err, "TVBD's") get out there ..... I also need whatever I'm using to have ATSC BDA source drivers for various software I use ....

What I should do though,(and haven't yet) is hook up a DTT900 to the WinTV-1600 (it has composite+s-video inputs, and stereo analog audio inputs, a MPEG2 SD hardware encoder as well as a seperate NTSC tuner/rf input) for DX screencaps .... But that's not quite the same or as "fun" as capp'ing TS's from stations via DX or getting TSreader HTML caps (so I can send to you among other things) ....

Jeff -

Do you have an HDHomerun? I have two, and have been very pleased with them (dual ATSC/QAM tuner, network device rather than a card in the PC). If so, I would be interested to hear how you think they compare to others. I use SageTV and there is often quite a bit of discussion on their boards about what are the best ATSC and QAM tuners. HDHR's seem to get very high marks from almost all users (I don't know that I have ever seen anyone say they were not pleased).

WSTR-DT CH 64 presentation of 'Home Alone' looks fabulous but the audio has ALOT of static in it...Pretty disappointed...Not to mention just how annoying the audio difference is between the commercials and the program...

I'm watching OTA and the audio sounds fine. I noticed that WSTR is not broadcasting in Dolby Digital but I don't think MNTV does anyway.

9:16 PM just switched to DD 5.1 from DD 2.0...Now the vocals come from all speakers...Static seems to be gone though...Commercial audio is still driving me crazy though...Watching OTA also...

Do you have an HDHomerun?


No, sorry can't offer any comparisons for it.

I'd heard some time ago from an engineer at MyTV affiliate that MYTV only sends DD 2.0 audio, no DD 5.1. Don't know if that's changed. WSTR-DT did however offer "true DD 5.1" at one time from the WB ...

Anyway, A bit after their change to 3/2(DD 5.1) audio encoding, Beginning About 21:28EDT 12/11, also noticed for the first time in about 3 months when I've checked it that WSTR-DT video stream is no longer broken. Hopefully it stays that way, it is still fine now ...

Just before that though, such as around around 9:25~9:26pm EDT just before a commercial break(and during it in spots up to about 9:28 when it was finally "fixed") you would have seen a mess ....

That(What happened around 9:25pm) has been happening in a "noticable" fashion every so often(not just during MyTV programming - it's been happening 24/7) for the past few months - Since they started sending 1080i, although, as I mentioned in earlier post, I doubt that is "specific" to this issue they were having. (note: MYTV HD of course is 720p, unless something has changed).

And, it had been happening on the analog station lately as well as it looks like they are decoding the Video WSTR-DT is using/converting it to analog and doing a center cut ...

Up until 9:28Pm EDT tonight (again for the last 3 months when I've checked it - Never saw this problem from them before then), they've actually had errors in their video stream occuring generally at the rate of 1 or 2 per minute, but they often don't cause glitches" which seem to effect decoders noticably such that they would be visable to viewer ... Sometimes though, the errors were worse, and they have caused visable glitches every now and then like anyone watching "home alone" tonight would have seen occasionally (such as the "glitches" just after 9:25pm EDT)

Anyway, I don't watch them much, except for some of the HD Films from MYTV and until I saw/noticed it was happening simultanously on analog 64, It took a while to make sure the issue wasn't on my end, and, I've been wondering how long it would take them to fix that issue ....

Anyway, It's fixed now, and has been since around 9:28pm earlier this evening, hopefully it will stay that way ...

Update: Oh, BTW, They have also occasionally had some audio issues in the past ....

Well, it seems we finally have some competition to Time Warner and the Sat companies!

http://www.cincinnatibell.com/video/residential_solutions/

My girlfriend was greeted by a Cinti Bell salesmen yesterday afternoon at her apartment in Corryville. He was offering internet and TV, I figured Zoomtown DSL and D*. NOT FTTH! I have noticed the last couple of months plenty of trucks around campus with fiber on reels. I can't remember the company that was doing the work, but it was local, east side I think.
Well when I saw the write up he had, it said "Fiber Optics" at the top. I couldn't believe the channel line up, esp. for HD! I am now looking into this for my fraternity!
I believe they are hitting large condo/apartment communities first, obviously to get a large base without that much work!
I will keep you posted, as she has decided to drop TW and go with this offer. Install date is early Jan.

Info:
39 HD Channels
30Mbps+ Internet
Home Phone over Fiber (VOiP)

Heck I can't even get Zoontown where I live in NKY. Thank Goodness for Insight!! which I currently have the 20 meg service bundled with their HD pkg. I wonder if Cinbell will have similar speeds that Verizon's FIOS has?

Though I can't get Cinti Bell where I live I am ecstatic at this news!!! :D

I guess this is why Time Warner is trying to get their new subscribers to sign 2 year contracts.

How much for just Internet access? I don't need to pay for a phone line or TV... Last I checked it was indeed quite a limited roll-out, but at least they are working on it...

Edit: Nevermind, answered my own question:

30Mbps
Blazing speed of up to 30Mbps - faster than most cable modems.
$60/mo

20Mbps
Blazing speed of up to 20Mbps
$50/mo

10Mbps
Blazing speed of up to 10Mbps
$40/m

I guess I will stick with ZoomTown for $20 a month for now...

and it will probably stay limited for a while - they are mostly targeting mdus.. :(

I haven't watched it yet, but just looking at a couple of spots notice there were still numerious Video/audio Glitches during The first portion of "National Lampoon's Vacation" from MyTV HD Tonight ...

HOWEVER, those glitches must now be occuring entirely upstream of WSTR's encoder. As, unlike was the case before 9:28pm 12/10 and going back a few months, the stream itself was pretty clean(I had a pretty much error free MPEG2error log from my cap of them between 8~10pm this evening for instance) between 8~10pm tonight, and during a couple of short checks I made earlier today ...

Also Noticed they did drop from HD for a short period tonight, perhaps (hopefully) they were working on it ....

Also, what little I've montiored it past 10pm this evening, I'm not seeing any "glitches" during the non-MyTV programming, or from analog WSTR -- again, unlike was the case when I've checked it recently and up to 9:28pm 12/10 ...

So, it looks like currently their issues may now be limited to involving MyTV HD feed and or their equipment for receiving/processing it, so it seems like they are making some progress at least ....

Yes the 16:9 dropped to 4:3 but only for 1 segment of the show...and the audio ws DD 2.0 for the entire program...

How much for just Internet access? I don't need to pay for a phone line or TV... Last I checked it was indeed quite a limited roll-out, but at least they are working on it...

Edit: Nevermind, answered my own question:

30Mbps
Blazing speed of up to 30Mbps - faster than most cable modems.
$60/mo

20Mbps
Blazing speed of up to 20Mbps
$50/mo

10Mbps
Blazing speed of up to 10Mbps
$40/m

I guess I will stick with ZoomTown for $20 a month for now...

WOW!!! Thats pretty pricey right there...Roadrunner doesn't have too much to worry about...At least not immediately...

Cincinnati Bell's FTTH services are pretty impressive. I'm surprised that they're offering everything a la carte as Uverse requires TV service (IIRC) if you want HSI (unless DSL isn't available and UVerse is the only option). I would say this is a pretty good package to put up against TWC, but I'm not sure I would jump from D* right now since they're missing some channels. Too bad this has such a limited offering (link (http://www.cincinnatibell.com/video/ftth_communities/)). Since this is a FTTH/P service it should be leaps and bounds better than AT&T's FTTN service and I look forward to some reviews.

WOW!!! Thats pretty pricey right there...Roadrunner doesn't have too much to worry about...At least not immediately...

It's really not that pricey since 7Mbps service from TWC runs ~$46 a la carte and ~22Mbps runs ~$57.

It's really not that pricey since 7Mbps service from TWC runs ~$46 a la carte and ~22Mbps runs ~$57.

You're probably right...I have the lower package and pay $20 something for mine...I personally don't need any faster...Certainly not double the price faster... ;)

It's really not that pricey since 7Mbps service from TWC runs ~$46 a la carte and ~22Mbps runs ~$57.That's assuming that TWC isn't pricey. :)

30Mbps would be nice but it's a bit excessive even for bandwidth hogs like me. I'd love to have 30Mbps or even 10Mbps, but honestly the only complaint I have about my $20/month 5Mbps DSL service is that the upstream is limited to 768kbps. It's just not worth it (at least to me) to pay that much more money for speed that will rarely if ever be noticed.

I'm extremely happy with the fact that for TV, Internet, home phone, and cell phone, I pay $20 a month and that's it. My TV is free OTA, I don't have/need a home phone, and I use my cell phone that my work pays for as my exclusive phone. I realize everyone doesn't have this option but if you added home phone, cable, and cell phone bill that's easily $150 a month if not more which is enough to buy a Hyundai!

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 4-5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Game:

8:15pm NFLN - New Orleans at Chicago $
Bob Papa, Cris Collinsworth

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (7 WHIO) Buffalo at NY Jets*
Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Washington at Cincinnati
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Pittsburgh at Baltimore
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – NY Giants at Dallas
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Cleveland at Philadelphia+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:
The Early CBS doubleheader game is blacked out in Cincinnati because the Bengals play at home on FOX at 1pm. OTA viewers can avoid the blackout by watching WHIO 7 Dayton.

Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

In a way, I both love and hate reading people talk about Internet speed and prices in other places. $40 for 10 Mbps expensive? You're all spoiled. :p Where I am out in the sticks, it's $40 for 512 kbps, and $50 for 1 Mbps. Nothing faster is available. And it's down a lot.

- Trip

:p Where I am out in the sticks, it's $40 for 512 kbps, and $50 for 1 Mbps. Nothing faster is available. And it's down a lot.


It's similar situation here out here in the "country" between Middletown and Germantown, OH. DSL is available Through local telco, although I'm not sure if even that is available(DSL) at my specific location given my distance from the "main office"(It would have to be at least 6 miles via wire, which isn't "crow fly" miles of course). No cable available at my location, and DSL from the local telco is probably the only choice other than dialup(which is what I use) or via satellite, currently.

They did apparently lower their price for their slowest connection recently however to $44.95/mo and $29.95 for first 6 months, prior to that everytime I checked their lowest price for several years was around $60. At one time, their slowest connection was 128Kbs, I can't find the bandwidth/pricing and "local" page for them which I'd seen before, though.

They do however, have fiber on the poles(which the same telco owns), I'm not sure what, if anything it's being used for but I think most residential customers are still using (underground) POTS for the phone service.

The telco involved was an independant, but a couple years ago fairpoint bought them :

http://395fpge.fairpoint.com/

There are also some wireless ISP providers in the area I believe, the prices I've seen are also pretty high, and from what I've seen of their coverage maps, they don't reach me, or, for those who might because of terrain I would probably be unlikely to get service here, without a hi-gain directional antenna setup of some sort.....

I do get Cellphone service(just barely) but only from one provider given the location of one of their towers, while other providers are blocked by terrain(neighbor has to go to "top of the hill" to use his cell phone), even though THEIR towers are closer ....

Meanwhile, I've also noticed recently there's a strong "noiselike"(probably COFDM)signal of some sort on ch 55 .... I can detect it via AGC readings on my Sony HDTV' "signal diagnostic" screen, and it "snows up" WCVN 54 significantly on some analog tuners ... I'd think that would have to be for Quallcom's Mediaflo, as I think they "own" ch 55 nationally .... Don't know where the transmitter is located I'm getting such a strong signal from, but it seems to be (roughly) towards the same tower I get cell Phone service from, and (roughly) towards the South/Same direction as Cincinanti(and WCVN) .....

Yeah, where I live even the phone lines suck so dialup speeds won't get above 26.4 kbps. Verizon claims that as long as you can talk on the phone and hear the person at the other end, that's all they're required to do. No cable period in most of the county, in town there's 35 analog channels and that's it, no Internet, no digital cable.

There's nothing wrong with needing a high-gain yagi; that's what my ISP provided. They're operating on 900 MHz and the tower is 3 miles away.

If there's one thing I do have, actually, it's cell phone service. Around 1990 I think, the police decided they needed to get with the times and install a decent radio system, and that would require a tower. They partnered with a cell phone company that is now US Cellular to build a tower for them, so we have cell service from one company. Nobody else. No GSM service for miles in any direction, only CDMA from US Cellular. That tower is about 6 miles out as the crow flies.

I agree, that channel 55 does sound like MediaFLO. I wonder if there are any receivers out there that will demodulate the COFDM so we could have a look at the bitstream. I'd be very curious to see what it looks like. I admit I don't know a lot about it, but doesn't DVB-T use COFDM? Maybe that's the type of equipment required.

- Trip

There's nothing wrong with needing a high-gain yagi; that's what my ISP provided. They're operating on 900 MHz and the tower is 3 miles away.


Most defintely agree, I certianly don't have any problems with the antenna part ... Here though, the info I found on wireless ISP
s, were rather "sketchy" at best, and involved at least $60 a month, and it's 6 Miles+ away and terrain obstructed .... I sent one operation an email asking for verification of service/etc. and never received any info back from them .... There is a tower I think Cincy bell uses that is little closer (but probably more terrain obstructed), but I'm not sure whether they offer any wireless interet service from it, and I think we'd still probably be talking about that price range - which is somewhere I won't go .... If it ain't somewhere in the range of about $20 a month or so at most, then it's out of the range I'd be willing to pay ...


I admit I don't know a lot about it, but doesn't DVB-T use COFDM? Maybe that's the type of equipment required.


Yes, but I don't recall precisely what Signal modulation Quallcom is using for Mediaflo, and I was just guessing about the COFDM part ... and of course there are many different "flavors" of various signal modulations that are OFDM based ...

I believe the WSD's (TVBD's) will be using C/OFDM as well, btw ....

Ah, yes, I can see why you wouldn't want to. I think my parents are paying a grandfathered $40/month rate for 1Mbps, the prices I quoted are for new installs. The dialup here is just unusable.

- Trip

The Early CBS doubleheader game is blacked out in Cincinnati because the Bengals play at home on FOX at 1pm. OTA viewers can avoid the blackout by watching WHIO 7 Dayton.


I do enjoy OTA now thats for sure...Now if only my Signal Source antenna would come in...;)

Did anyone else loose their local HD channels via QAM through TWC tonight? I lost them on my (2) TVs and can't seem to locate them again. Didn't know if I called TWC if the reps would even know what they were.

Regarding the NBC distribution change to mpeg-4... Watching the Ironman Triathlon coverage on WLWT-DT in HD yesterday was some of the best HD I have EVER seen, even during high motion scenes such as following an athlete speeding along during the bike portion, and with the water during the swimming portions. Absolutely stunning.

Did anyone else loose their local HD channels via QAM through TWC tonight? I lost them on my (2) TVs and can't seem to locate them again. Didn't know if I called TWC if the reps would even know what they were.

Was fine here but I only watched the NFL game on WLWT-HD. In Fairfield if that matters.

jimp2244 said "What economic crisis? Save yourself $60-100 per month or more by dropping pay TV and enjoy free HD services over the air! If you don't know, ask me how"

What about USA, TNT, Sci-FI, Spike, CNN, FOX News etc.? All good channels often with better content than OTA channels.

What about USA, TNT, Sci-FI, Spike, CNN, FOX News etc.? All good channels often with better content than OTA channels.Do you need those channels? Could you get by without them? I've found that with the HD-DVR, I have more than enough content (just had to delete a bunch of stuff last night because my 150 hour capacity was getting full) to entertain and inform myself. Home improvement shows? I record This Old House and Yankee Workshop. Science shows? Nova. In depth news stories? Frontline.

To be honest, there is only one channel I miss, even a little bit, and that's ESPN. However, in order to get ESPN-HD I'd need to pay at least $60 a month (I believe it's even higher than that), and when you think of it that way ($60 to get one channel), you can clearly see it's not worth it.

Also note my reference to the "economic crisis." That's mostly a testiment to my "slight annoyance" with people who are up to their ears in debt but refuse to consider dropping the luxury of pay TV, especially when free TV is so easily accessible and works so well. Drive past a trailer park and see all the dishes there...

If those channels alone that you mentioned are worth it to you to pay, then by all means continue to do so. I do think that most people could do without though if they'd just give it a try (most will not take me up on the challenge).

Bob - Are you saying you are going to fire up digital channel 12 as well as keeping channel 31 running? Are you going to leave digital 12 running or better yet - when do you plan on discontinuing digital 31? I ask because I wonder how the directv OTA receivers will handle the frequency change as they do not have the ability to scan for channels.

thanks

jim

Next week, early in the morning on Tuesday, December 16, 2008, WKRC will be conducting tests of the new Ch12 DTV transmitter into the antenna.
This is a "dress rehearsal" for the February, 2009 changeover.

The plan is to shut down the analog transmitter shortly after 1:30AM then make the necessary transmission line changes to connect the DTV transmitter to the antenna. Hopefully this changeover will take less than a half hour. But, since this is the first time we're doing this, it might take longer to make the pieces fit.

The digital transmitter will then be operated into the antenna for as long a period of time as possible. The analog transmitter will have to be reconnected and back on the air by 4:30AM.

If any of you are niteowls (or get up really early in the morning), we would appreciate signal reports on channel 12 either here or to a special email address we have set up for this test:

wkrcdtv (at) gmail (dot) com

Note that the CH31 transmitter will remain on the air during this test and both transmitters will be transmitting the same transport stream. So a simple channel re-scan on your receiver may or may not put you on channel 12.

Also, I'm not prepared to discuss anything other than the transmitter test.
(i.e. HD news or 5.1 audio)

Thanks.

Bob Craig

Do you need those channels? Could you get by without them? I've found that with the HD-DVR, I have more than enough content (just had to delete a bunch of stuff last night because my 150 hour capacity was getting full) to entertain and inform myself. Home improvement shows? I record This Old House and Yankee Workshop. Science shows? Nova. In depth news stories? Frontline.

I must agree with this statement. PBS has excellent programming. :D

- Trip

I must agree with this statement. PBS has excellent programming. :D

- Trip
As Ned Flanders would say, "They certainly-dertainly do!"

I wish my local PBS didn't have their head up their rear end, because PBS certainly has the best programming available OTA. My first stop (outside of a few choice programs like House) is PBS, I check there if there's anything on, then try the other networks, and then if I must have some background noise, then I figure out of the programs PBS has on its various subchannels, which would I most like to see. That's what gets put on. =)

- Trip

I never watched PBS when I had DirecTV. If there was nothing recorded to watch, I usually surfed to ESPN, Comedy Central, VH-1, or some other mindless stuff. My wife would get caught up watching reality shows on Bravo, TLC, HGTV, or, worst of all, the "Fox Reality Channel" :eek: (talk about the biggest waste of time ever... re-runs of reality shows???)

Since going OTA, we have discovered a wealth of great shows on the many PBS channels - almost all of which actually teach you something worthwhile, too.

It was my wife's astute observation that we were wasting too many hours of our lives "watching mindless cr*p" that led us to go OTA. We realized that the shows that we enjoyed watching together were mostly on major network TV. So she said "if you can figure out a way to keep DVR/Tivo capability (onscreen guide, "season passes", recordings listings, etc.), through an antenna, we can drop DirecTV and you can get that HDTV you have been longing for". And by saving about $800/year (we didn't even have HD or any premium packages on DirecTV, just the basics), the TV will pay for itself in less than two years.

So, 10 months into my SageTV HTPC setup, we now watch "Nature" and "Nova", as mentioned above. "America's Test Kitchen" and "Cook's Country" have replaced "Good Eats". "Austin City Limits" and "SoundStage" give us our music fix without the goofy "list shows" of VH-1. I never watched all the sci-fi stuff that so many guys do, and if I wanted to, most of it is available somewhere online anyway (hulu, etc.) And when there is something on ESPN, Fox Sports, or CSTV that I really want to see (very rare occasion), it's usually available on www.channelsurfing.net anyway.

I saw a commercial this morning on the CW (12.2) that WKRC is going to do a prime-time test of the digital switchover. I believe it is going to be at 7:30 pm this Wednesday (I can't find anything on it on WKRC.com or I would verify). The commercial says that viewers should take the opportunity to check every TV set in the house to see whether it works.

Following up on jim tressler's post above, I would love to know how long they will be running the test, and whether WKRC will be firing up physical channel 12 in digital, rather than just continuing with physical channel 31 (which I currently receive just fine).

I would love the chance to do a re-scan that night and see if I get digital 12 with my current antenna setup. If there were problems, perhaps I could put a new antenna on my list for Santa Claus! :D

I saw a commercial this morning on the CW (12.2) that WKRC is going to do a prime-time test of the digital switchover. I believe it is going to be at 7:30 pm this Wednesday (I can't find anything on it on WKRC.com or I would verify). The commercial says that viewers should take the opportunity to check every TV set in the house to see whether it works.

Saw a similar statement on WCPO saying it would be Wednesday at 7:30pm and last for 5 minutes. I can't find anything on their site but it looked as if they were simply going to broadcast static with an overlay of info on how to switch to dtv on the analog channel.

I really don't see how this will alert non-saavy television people but that's what they said they were going to do. Hopefully after the transition next year they will broadcast the analog signal with the same info for a while so these people aren't completely lost.

To be honest, there is only one channel I miss, even a little bit, and that's ESPN. However, in order to get ESPN-HD I'd need to pay at least $60 a month (I believe it's even higher than that), and when you think of it that way ($60 to get one channel), you can clearly see it's not worth it.

Also note my reference to the "economic crisis." That's mostly a testiment to my "slight annoyance" with people who are up to their ears in debt but refuse to consider dropping the luxury of pay TV, especially when free TV is so easily accessible and works so well. Drive past a trailer park and see all the dishes there...

Sounds like me! I do miss ESPN badly but I'm saving $$$$ per month. I do wish I had a standalone HD DVR but I can live without it. Currently have TWC basic $12/month service and get the local hd channels that way since I seem to live in a broadcast signal "black hole".

I do have this QAM enabled HDTV card (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FPinnacle-Systems-8230-10023-51-PCTV-Card%2Fdp%2FB000X27YQI&tag=5336055023-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) but I haven't installed it yet. Bought it dirt cheap at woot.com months ago. Anybody out there have any thoughts or comments about this as a way to record HD stuff? I hear the pinnacle software is pretty bad and was hoping my install of XP Media Center would be able to handle it.

I saw a commercial this morning on the CW (12.2) that WKRC is going to do a prime-time test of the digital switchover. I believe it is going to be at 7:30 pm this Wednesday (I can't find anything on it on WKRC.com or I would verify). The commercial says that viewers should take the opportunity to check every TV set in the house to see whether it works.

Saw a similar statement on WCPO saying it would be Wednesday at 7:30pm and last for 5 minutes. I can't find anything on their site but it looked as if they were simply going to broadcast static with an overlay of info on how to switch to dtv on the analog channel.

This is part of the Ohio Association of Broadcasters DTV test (posted a few pages back). All (or at least most major) stations in Ohio will be participating.

www.mythtv.org

I do have this QAM enabled HDTV card (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FPinnacle-Systems-8230-10023-51-PCTV-Card%2Fdp%2FB000X27YQI&tag=5336055023-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) but I haven't installed it yet. Bought it dirt cheap at woot.com months ago. Anybody out there have any thoughts or comments about this as a way to record HD stuff? I hear the pinnacle software is pretty bad and was hoping my install of XP Media Center would be able to handle it.

www.mythtv.org (http://www.mythtv.org)

I'll re-iterate my support for BeyondTV. Well worth the money. I have not used it with QAM as I'm OTA-only but I do believe it supports QAM at least in some fashion.

The test we have scheduled for tonight is purely concerned with getting the Ch12 DTV rig into the antenna. We will NOT be shutting down Ch31 during this test. Ch12 analog will return by 4:30AM.

Also, the "test" Wednesday night does NOT involve the CH12 DTV transmitter at all. It is my understanding that the Ch31 transmitter and all the fiber feeds (Warner, DirecTV, etc.) will continue regular programming while the OTA Ch12 Analog transmitter only displays some sort of notice.

The thought is that if you are receiving us via analog OTA or a small cable system that does not get a fiber feed or digital OTA to deliver us then you're going to have a problem in February and you need to know that.


BTW, tonight's test into the antenna may be canceled if weather coverage prempts it. I'll try to put a note up here if we scrub it but, as I write, we're still on....

BTW, tonight's test into the antenna may be canceled if weather coverage prempts it. I'll try to put a note up here if we scrub it but, as I write, we're still on....

The following snippet was released by the National Weather Service at 4:15 PM:

SNOW WHICH WILL OVERSPREAD THE OHIO VALLEY FROM SOUTHWEST TO NORTHEAST WILL INCREASE IN COVERAGE AND INTENSITY LATE TONIGHT AS A DISTURBANCE TRACKS ALONG A STALLED FRONTAL BOUNDARY. THE BEST TIME FOR SNOW ACCUMULATION WILL BE FROM JUST PRIOR TO SUNRISE TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH NOON ON TUESDAY. ONE TO THREE INCHES OF SNOW AND ICE ACCUMULATION IS EXPECTED BY MIDDAY TUESDAY... WITH THE POTENTIAL FOR HEAVIEST ACCUMULATION OCCURRING FROM THE CINCINNATI TRI-STATE AREA EAST INTO SOUTH CENTRAL OHIO. ALONG AND SOUTH OF THE OHIO RIVER... SLEET AND FREEZING RAIN MAY MIX IN WITH THE SNOW FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

Keep your fingers crossed!

I'll be trying for Digital VHF ch 12 as well as UHF ch 12...I never got my VHF antenna delivered yet so we will have to see how VHF 12 does...The UHF 12 comes in VERY strong so I am hopeful that VHF 12 will come in as well...I'll be monitoring this thread for info as well as report my findings here...Unless you would rather I use the email addy you provided...

I'll re-iterate my support for BeyondTV. Well worth the money. I have not used it with QAM as I'm OTA-only but I do believe it supports QAM at least in some fashion.
And I'll reiterate my support for SageTV. :D

I'm sure there are people with BeyondTV (on their forums) who dislike Sage and find BTV better, but it sure seems like there are a lot of former BTV users who switched to Sage and find it has more features. Having not compared the two, I don't know personally. But BTV is free, right? Sage isn't (though not expensive). SageTV absolutely supports QAM through many different tuner brands. And the big thing that Sage has going for it, which I don't believe any others do, is the HD Extender, which acts like a set-top box at your TV and allows you to stash your HTPC server away somewhere. Not to mention that using the Extender allows you to use a much, much less "beefy" server PC, since all it has to do is read/write a data stream to your hard drive (all the encoding/transcoding is done by the Extender).

I'll stop now. ;)

I'll be trying for Digital VHF ch 12 as well as UHF ch 12...I never got my VHF antenna delivered yet so we will have to see how VHF 12 does...The UHF 12 comes in VERY strong so I am hopeful that VHF 12 will come in as well...I'll be monitoring this thread for info as well as report my findings here...Unless you would rather I use the email addy you provided...

From XmtrMan's post, I don't think you will get to try digital 12. See where he said:
Also, the "test" Wednesday night does NOT involve the CH12 DTV transmitter at all.

Personally, I am kinda bummed about that. Channel 12 is really my only big concern for this coming February. I was hoping to get to try it out.

I really don't see how this will alert non-saavy television people but that's what they said they were going to do.
Well, when the non-savvy people (which, at this point, probably means "people who don't pay any attention" :p ) suddenly have static Wednesday night (or a blank screen with a message), maybe they'll get the point. :cool: And frankly, that's probably the point of the drill, moreso than allowing people to "test"... it's a wake-up call to those who have been sleeping through the announcements for the past year... in other words...

"HEY! YOU! PAY ATTENTION! THIS APPLIES TO YOU!" :D

^ No, to clarify, WKRC is going to broadcast digitally on VHF channel 12 tonight. They will not be touching their existing digital broadcast which is on UHF channel 31. So there will be two digital broadcasts and no analog broadcast from them for the short testing period. So, yes, you will be able to get some sort of "idea" as far as the reception of WKRC-DT you can expect after February 17. Of course, since this is a test, there certainly might be adjustments made by WKRC between now and the real switch.

Well, when the non-savvy people (which, at this point, probably means "people who don't pay any attention" :p ) suddenly have static Wednesday night (or a blank screen with a message), maybe they'll get the point. :cool: And frankly, that's probably the point of the drill, moreso than allowing people to "test"... it's a wake-up call to those who have been sleeping through the announcements for the past year... in other words...

"HEY! YOU! PAY ATTENTION! THIS APPLIES TO YOU!" :DYes, and also for those aware of the changes but not quite sure what it all means, it gives them a chance to check all of the TVs in their house to see if they need to take action on any of them.

On a personal note, ALL of the TVs in my house are affected by this change, but I have taken action on all of them some time ago. We don't use any analog here at all, other than me "taking a peek" periodically out of curiosity.

^ No, to clarify, WKRC is going to broadcast digitally on VHF channel 12 tonight. They will not be touching their existing digital broadcast which is on UHF channel 31. So there will be two digital broadcasts and no analog broadcast from them for the short testing period. So, yes, you will be able to get some sort of "idea" as far as the reception of WKRC-DT you can expect after February 17. Of course, since this is a test, there certainly might be adjustments made by WKRC between now and the real switch.

Correct...Tonight...weather permitting...WKRC will TEST VHF ch 12 DIGITAL @ approximately 1:30AM to 4:30Am...

Tomorrow nite will be the analog shutoff notice for all analog user still using antenna...This WILL NOT affect cable and satellite viewers...

Sorry, guys, I was talking about the prime time test tomorrow or Wednesday or whenever it is. The statement I quoted was in reference to that as well.

More power to ya, if you are going to stay up all night tonight for that. I'll be asleep. ;) :D

Sorry, guys, I was talking about the prime time test tomorrow or Wednesday or whenever it is.After going back I realize I misread; sorry.

Contrary to what was supposed to happen, we will not have any programming on 12.1 between 1:35a and 4:30a (The Traffic department completely signed us off and has nothing scheduled).

Oddly, the CW will still be operating on 12.2.

I'll try to run a few promos/PSAs through the upconverter chain after we get the Ch12DTV rig up so we can look at 12.1, but most of the time it will be a static graphic.

BC

Contrary to what was supposed to happen, we will not have any programming on 12.1 between 1:35a and 4:30a (The Traffic department completely signed us off and has nothing scheduled).

Oddly, the CW will still be operating on 12.2.

I'll try to run a few promos/PSAs through the upconverter chain after we get the Ch12DTV rig up so we can look at 12.1, but most of the time it will be a static graphic.

BC

A static graphic will be just fine...At least it beats a blank screen...;) Any audio along with the graphic??? And to clarify...12-2 VHF wll also be running and will be The CW just like 12-2 UHF yes???

A static graphic will be just fine...At least it beats a blank screen...;) Any audio along with the graphic??? And to clarify...12-2 VHF wll also be running and will be The CW just like 12-2 UHF yes???

A test tone may be helpful. I believe that a big part of the test is to make sure we viewers can successfully lock on and decode WKRC's digital signal on RF channel 12, watch for dropouts, and make sure the signal strength/quality is comparable to the signal strength/quality of the signal on RF channel 31.

1:40AM 12 VHF DT no signal...12 UHF DT static logo...12-2 UHF DT the CW...

No audio UHF 12-1...Audio on 12-2 UHF...

Confirmed. Analog on RF channel 12 has ceased. Digital on RF channel 31 is still going (test picture with no sound on 12-1, CinCW still on 12-2). And I removed RF channel 31 from my Zenith DTT900 converter box and manually added RF channel 12. So I should be ready once they finish switching on the digital on RF 12.

I am able to have both ch 12 at the same time since in reality UHF DT 12 is different from VHF DT 12...2:05AM still same as I first posted...

I will continue to post findings until 2:30AM...I sure hope it comes up by then...However with a UHF antenna I am not sure if it will come in or not...

12 is up and running in digital on 12.

I get a better singnal strenth on 12 then 31 with my indoor antenna. My strength here in Delhi is 76-78 for 12. My normal readings for 31 is 72-75. 12 is way better then WCPO on VHF. My normal readings for 10 is 63-70.

12 VHF DT still no signal for me...12 UHF DT & 12 VHF ANALOG now has audible tone...Tone just stopped @ 2:19AM...

Loud and clear here in Greensburg @ 54mi on the Insignia STB.

Tone returned at 2:19AM...

Color Bars & tone 12 UHF DT...Still no Signal 12 VHF DT...

No tone for me on 12.1 on my Sharp Aquos.

Strong signal UHF DT...No signal VHF DT...

Are you guys also getting the CW on 12-2 VHF DT???

Splicer remove 31 that could be your problem. Remember 31 still maps to 12.1 and 12.2. 12 also maps to 12.1 and 12.2. yes i am getting TheCW on 12.2 on 12.

There we go!! :D

I can confirm that the signal/strength quality has more bars for digital RF 12 (averaging 9.5 out of 10) than digital RF 31 (8 out of 10) on my main Samsung. It's a little more difficult to tell on the Zenith DTT900 though. Both are high on the "Good" scale, but RF 31 fluxuates on the "Good" side of the scale while RF 12 is more solid on the "Good" side of the scale.

And a quick comparison between RF 12 and RF 10 shows that RF 12 is a little better than RF 10 in terms of signal strength/quality as well. RF 10 is averaging 8 out of 10 bars at the moment.

Both twin 12-1's have gone from the Local 12 logo to the familiar color test pattern.

Loud and clear here in Greensburg @ 54mi on the Insignia STB.

How does it compare to RF 31?

Splicer remove 31 that could be your problem. Remember 31 still maps to 12.1 and 12.2. 12 also maps to 12.1 and 12.2. yes i am getting TheCW on 12.2 on 12.

Tried that already rob...No change...

To be fair WKRP didn't come in at first either...Maybe because I have an older ATSC receiver...I don't know...I have a sneaky suspicion that it is due to the UHF antenna though...

Has anyone needed to relocte their antenna positions???

My antenna is in the same place I use for WCPO. Funny seeing 2 12.1's and 2 12.2's lol

Also is anyone picking up 12 VHF DT with a UHF only antenna??? I am out in the boonies and even VHF DT 10 I rarely get but not right now...Hence the reason for the Solid signal antenna purchase that has yet to be delivered...

My antenna is in the same place I use for WCPO.

That is most probably my issue then...I won't have my VHF antenna in for a minimum of another week if that soon...:mad:

Goodnight gentlemen...

Strength on 12 in now fluctuating from 69 to 78 with some random dropouts. as of 2:41am seens to have gone back to just 76 to 78 and no dropouts.

How does it compare to RF 31?

Signal is close to the same as 12.Both pretty much full tilt.

VHF-2 H-stacked psp1922's at 23ft AGL w/7776 preamp
UHF-4 H-stacked Triax 100A's at 25ft AGL w/EMCEE PA-20u preamp

Getting a nice signal from WKRC-DT on RF 12 here between Middletown and Germantown - WKRC is 32.7 miles from me, at (true) azimuth bearing 188 degrees. I think it came up about 2:08am.

Signal quality :

SNR/signal quality readings on receivers I've checked are excellent, pretty much Maxed out (30db SNR on Hauppauge WinTV-HVR1600, it's maximum reading, and 33~34db SNR on Sony KD34XBR960 HDTV). Although of course those are not likely "accurate" readings, nevertheless it probably indicates a quite "clean" RF signal, as well as I'd think a likely high EVM on WKRC's end ...

Signal Strength :

I'd estimate (roughly) a signal strength of about -64dBm or so in free space at receive antenna location(not including gain of antenna) here from WKRC-DT on 12 . If multipath uncorrectable by receiver or other "noise" isn't involved, I'd think that should probably be accurate within about +/- 10db or so. It Seems to be about 2~3 dB or so stronger than WCPO-DT signal here, currently.

Note: Above signal strength prediction is estimated by Adding additional attenuation before receiver via variable attenuator/seeing how much "extra" attenuation it takes to get down to "just at threshold level" for decoding DTV --- along with roughly calculating/taking into account antenna gain from Manufactuer specs, as well as estimating feedline/balun losses, losses from traps and splitters I have in line before receiver, and taking into account(roughly) gain from amplifcation/system NF/and minimum signal level required for decoding DTV .....

Note: TVfool predicts -56.6dBm signal strength for channel 12 post-transition, but of course does not take into account issues such as attenuation by all the nearby trees here my antenna is aimed towards when aiming at Cincinnati ....

WKRC-DT 12/31 comparison :

WKRC-DT on 31 has allways "maxed out" the signal quality readings on my receivers as well .... Sorry, I have to do a little more thinking than I can manage right now to work that out from a "signal strength" perspective, as my UHF antenna setup is quite different from my VHF antenna setup regarding calcuating any possible small difference in signal strength ;) ... Nevertheless, WKRC-DT on 31 has allways provided a strong, excellent quality signal, TVfool predicts -55dBm .....

==================

Signal is close to the same as 12.Both pretty much full tilt.

VHF-2 H-stacked psp1922's at 23ft AGL w/7776 preamp
UHF-4 H-stacked Triax 100A's at 25ft AGL w/EMCEE PA-20u preamp

The DX'ers will be OK no matter what. :) I was just curious on how someone with a more conventional outdoor antenna setup was receiving digital RF 12 from a 30 or more miles away.

Getting a nice signal from WKRC-DT on RF 12 here between Middletown and Germantown - WKRC is 32.7 miles from me...

Ask and thou shalt receive. ;)

Strength on 12 in now fluctuating from 69 to 78 with some random dropouts. as of 2:41am seens to have gone back to just 76 to 78 and no dropouts.

I had CinCW up and saw what appeared to be dropouts with "Married With Children". But I couldn't be sure if it was the feed (perhaps the encoder doesn't like the Bundys! :D ) or a problem with the signal. If it was with the signal, I bet it was just WKRC tweaking a few things.

I really appreciate the reports, guys!

All the pieces fit and we've got a good match to the antenna.

Overall the signal quality I'm sending up the stick is far, far better than CH31....SNR on my test equipment is running 6-7db better.

I'm really liking this rig!

I'm going to shut it down in a few minutes and re-plumb the analog rig.

See you in February.

Bob Craig

Final thoughts before I check out for the night...

One of our biggest worries around here was that when WKRC switched over their digital signal from UHF to High-VHF, it would become more difficult to receive (especially for indoor antenna setups). However, this does not appear to be the case so far. Signal strength/quality was at least as good as on RF 31 or in some cases (like mine) even better. This also gives me hope that WCPO can improve their signal to make it easier to receive.

When WKRC and other stations that are changing frequencies do their permanent flash cuts in February, it appears that it will take a little time to switch everything over. It probably won't be as quick as flipping a switch.

And I now know how my tuners behave when two physical channels to map to the same virtual channel. :)

I really appreciate the reports, guys!

All the pieces fit and we've got a good match to the antenna.

Overall the signal quality I'm sending up the stick is far, far better than CH31....SNR on my test equipment is running 6-7db better.

I'm really liking this rig!

I'm going to shut it down in a few minutes and re-plumb the analog rig.

See you in February.

Bob Craig

Bob,

Looking forward to having WKRC back on 12 in February.

It really surprised me that Newport TV bought a second digital transmitter. So, what will happen to the channel 31 transmitter after February 17th? Will we see it on eBay? ;)

So, what will happen to the channel 31 transmitter after February 17th? Will we see it on eBay? ;)

The transmitter will be cheap. The FCC license to operate it on the other hand...

Maybe Newport will sell the CH 31 transmitter to Sinclair to use when they move WDKY-DT in Lexington KY fron CH 4 VHF to CH 31.

Couple of things :

Interesting receiver related issue I just noticed concerning WKRC-DT channel 12 test last night :

On one of my receivers (Zenith HDV420), before the test I "deselected" channel 31 from it's "channel edit"(surf list), so I could "tune" directly to RF channel 12 to decode them when they came up there ... I did not "add" channel 12 to it's "edit list" when they are up there which I'd assumed via previous experience would not save any TSID or PSIP info in receiver's memory, and just allow me to 'tune" to them on 12 manually, the latter which was the case.

But, I just discovered it apparently did Indeed save at least the TSID information, as, after adding channel 31 "back" via the channel edit list - it showed it detected their PSIP VCT info for "12.1" on the channel edit screen -- and as usual I could go to "31.1 or 31.2" to decode manually ---- However -- when I "surfed" to channel 12.1 or 12.2 to watch WKRC-DT, it was STILL going to RF channel 12, and thus I saw nothing/no indication of 8VSB signal/etc ...

A complete rescan (wiped all channel info memory the receiver stored) Solved the problem ..... Given I've done all sorts of Dx'ing with this thing such that I've even had muliple stations with the same VCT major-minor channel #'s "scanned in" and it worked just fine, I'm thinking it must have been because the TSID info was the same on 31 and 12 ....

I'm also assuming something involving TSID may also be involved regarding why It's not using WBQC-LD's VCT info (given the TSID # 0001 info they're sending), and I see them on 47.1~47.4 on it whearas they show up as 25.1~25.4 on all my other receivers ...

So, just a heads up that it's possible if anyone else runs into this issue with their particular receiver, a full rescan for channels will probably fix it ....


WSTR-DT :

Finally got around to watching "National Lampoon's Vacation" from my Cap of WSTR-DT from last week. Noticed all the video "glitches" I mentioned in earlier post were confined to only the first portion of the program .. Also, Capp'ed "Grumpier old men" last night, haven't watched it yet but I did some checks and EVERYTHING looked and sounded great (well except for some blocking issues given they are only giving 15Mb/s to the 1080i HD video ...) ... Hope it stays that way now !

Maybe Newport will sell the CH 31 transmitter to Sinclair to use when they move WDKY-DT in Lexington KY fron CH 4 VHF to CH 31.

Keep in mind FCC hasn't granted their petition to move to 31 yet, they may or may not do so ....

A complete rescan (wiped all channel info memory the receiver stored) Solved the problem

My Samsung with the dual built-in ATSC/NTSC tuner had a difficult time getting its bearings back for analog 12 after digital 12 went away. It tends to remember channels I tell it to delete! I'm going to wipe and rescan everything after analog shutoff anyway. "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." :)

I'm also assuming something involving TSID may also be involved regarding why It's not using WBQC-LD's VCT info (given the TSID # 0001 info they're sending), and I see them on 47.1~47.4 on it whearas they show up as 25.1~25.4 on all my other receivers ...

Speaking of which, the time they're sending is five hours behind and they're still not sending any programming information. But at least defaulting to Dolby 1/0 sound has solved everyone's audio problems.

Speaking of which, the time they're sending is five hours behind and they're still not sending any programming information. But at least defaulting to Dolby 1/0 sound has solved everyone's audio problems.

Yeah, no EIT's yet, and they don't have STT info set up correctly regarding the offset for time :

right now, at 00:01:39 EST for instance TSreader shows they have STT setup like this :

STT date/time : 2008/12/17 00:01:39

STT GPS/UTC offset : 0
STT: DS Status:0 DS Day of month :0 DS Hour : 0

It should be like this :

STT date/time : 2008/12/17 05:01:39

STT: GPS/UTC offset: 14
STT: DS Status: 0 DS Day of Month: 0 DS Hour : 0


Getting the digital "stuff" right was even quite a steep learning curve for some Full service stations when they first came on air, and for quite some time afterwards especially with the analog to take care of as well(as it still the case of course) ...

So, it might take them a while to get some stuff straightened out, and of course that we have Audio/video is the most important part ;)

Remember that guide data and the like is not required for low-powered stations like WOTH-LD. They may very well choose not to air such materials.

- Trip

Remember that guide data and the like is not required for low-powered stations like WOTH-LD. They may very well choose not to air such materials.

- Trip

Very true, in fact unless something new has happened, I don't believe LPTV DTV stations are required to send ANY PSIP data ..... LP translators are required to pass through the PSIP from the station's signal they're retransmitting though ..

But, FCC has said they're going to revisit that for LPTV's in a later proceeding ...

And, for LP Digitals(not translators) they said in paragraph 243 of their LP DTV R&O from 2004 :

"..... We strongly encourage these licensees to implement ATSC A/65B PSIP in their station operations."

Update: -- which of course is the same sort of thing they said before requiring full service stations to do PSIP beginning in March 2005 .... Oh, and it also says in there :

"We also note that digital LPTV stations will be required to transmit closed captioning information that can be displayed on DTV receivers. The full implementation of PSIP would facilitate licensee compliance with this requirement. We will revisit the PSIP implications for digital LPTV stations in a future DTV proceeding. "

.... Wonder if that is saying EIA-708 captions are "Required" ... Which for example are the only CC some(but probably not many, many seem to support the 608 captions as well) receivers(such as HDV420) will support ...

So apparently some cable systems are still using the analog OTA TV signals to provide locals to their customers.

The result was that their customers saw the same "your TV is going to break" message that the people with OTA analog did.

Nice going, idiots.

So apparently some cable systems are still using the analog OTA TV signals to provide locals to their customers.

The result was that their customers saw the same "your TV is going to break" message that the people with OTA analog did.

Nice going, idiots.

I heard about that...Funny as hell if you ask me...

Directv still uses some analog singls for locals Like 48 WCET. I saw the dtv message on it last night lol.

So apparently some cable systems are still using the analog OTA TV signals to provide locals to their customers.

The result was that their customers saw the same "your TV is going to break" message that the people with OTA analog did.

On the other hand, it exposed some weak spots the broadcast, cable, and satellite companies need to look out for before the conversion. It's much better to have the wrong message displayed on an analog-fed system than having all of your (full power) stations permanently disappear out of the blue.

Directv still uses some analog singls for locals Like 48 WCET. I saw the dtv message on it last night lol.

I think that they may get channel 54, WCVN's signal that way too. I checked DISH Network during the test and none of the local stations had "the message".

For some reason WCVN was not part of the local test last evening.

WCPO reported that the call center number listed on the message (if you were getting an analog feed of the station doing the test) got over 4000 calls last evening.

Finally got my shipping notice from Solid Signal my antenna is en route... :)

Now I am really confused. I thought if analog TV's were hooked up to cable they would still work. Many didn't during last nights test. Matarese said it was because the cable company didn't send a digital signal. That has to be incorrect. My digital set worked fine. I think that they didn't send an analog signal which they are supposed to convert the digital to analog and pass it on to cable customers. Instead they passed the OTA analog signal over their cable (I think) I could be wrong. Rather than convert the digital signal.

Anyone out there that can clear this up with a better explanation than Matarese

WCPO reported that the call center number listed on the message (if you were getting an analog feed of the station doing the test) got over 4000 calls last evening.


John Kiesewetter (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3ac60 462a1-975f-488a-b59f-cce8ca4398d1&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com) said it was 4,285. Jack Dominic (http://cet-techinfo.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-than-3000-dtv-questions.html) said it was more than 3,000 but most of that was weeded out by an automated call menu system. Only about 150 got to the WCET phone bank. John also mentioned that there weren't very many calls for the Columbus and Cleveland areas. There's another test that will happen in January.

At this time, KET is not participating in any of the blackout tests.

Now I am really confused. I thought if analog TV's were hooked up to cable they would still work. Many didn't during last nights test. Matarese said it was because the cable company didn't send a digital signal. That has to be incorrect. My digital set worked fine. I think that they didn't send an analog signal which they are supposed to convert the digital to analog and pass it on to cable customers. Instead they passed the OTA analog signal over their cable (I think) I could be wrong. Rather than convert the digital signal.

Anyone out there that can clear this up with a better explanation than Matarese

The cable/satellite companies were taking the analog signals from the TV stations and forwarding them directly to their subscribers. That is why many people with cable "failed" the test, because they were seeing the exact same signal as people watching analog with an antenna.

No need to worry, the cable companies will switch to the digital signal before the switch, so cable/sat customers are still ok.

Hey Guys,
I just received a WinTV_HVR-950Q usb tuner for my mac, it says it does clear-QAM; but after scanning my TW cable I can only pick up a few HD/digital stations. (a few pbs stations and oddly only channel 64, why not the other locals?) is this the "norm" for Clear QAM in Cincinnati with Time Warner? I thought I would at least get nbc, cbs, and abc on clear QAM. As I was reading this thread I saw something on if you have RR you dont get Clear QAM stations and if you only have cable/RR you do get Clear QAM? I have RR, is there anyway to turn it off then back on? unplug the router?
On a side note I pick up all the locals fine with the turner working in OTA/ATSC mode with the supplied antenna.
Any thoughts? I live on the Westside of Cininnati if that helps....
Thanks

As I was reading this thread I saw something on if you have RR you dont get Clear QAM stations and if you only have cable/RR you do get Clear QAM? I have RR, is there anyway to turn it off then back on? unplug the router?

No...The router or cable modem has no effect on QAM channels...If you get RR then you have clear QAM availability...

Hey Guys,
I just received a WinTV_HVR-950Q usb tuner for my mac, it says it does clear-QAM; but after scanning my TW cable I can only pick up a few HD/digital stations.

I had the same type of problem with a Kworld PlusTV USB stick on Insight cable. The problem seems to be poor software that doesn't properly detect some clear-QAM channels. Like your tuner, mine works fine when using it in the OTA mode.

Check to see if there is a software update for your tuner. I checked to see if there was one for mine and there wasn't. I hope that you have better luck.

WOW!!! My VHF-HI antenna came in today...:cool:

WHAT a difference!!! Holy cow is the WCPO-DT signal solid as a rock now!!!:D I have no qualms when channel 12 moves frequencies as I am sure it will come in just as rock solid and stable...I can highly recommend this antenna and the price can't be beat...I presume they are in stock now since I got mine...Here is the link...

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

...is this the "norm" for Clear QAM in Cincinnati with Time Warner?...

It's been my experience with several different QAM tuners at my home in Mt. Airy that signal strength of the Clear QAM on the cable is not the greatest. It doesn't seem to bother the Warner set-top box but some of the consumer tuners pixilate a lot or don't decode some channels at all...

And yes, as long as the STB is working they could care less.

For some reason WCVN was not part of the local test last evening.The test was organized by the Ohio Association of Broadcasters, which I don't believe includes WCVN as they are in Kentucky.

It's been my experience with several different QAM tuners at my home in Mt. Airy that signal strength of the Clear QAM on the cable is not the greatest.

I grew up in Mt. Airy...What part do you live in??? I grew up behind Mt. Airy Elementary...which of course has been torn down...off of Colerain and Goldenrod...

And no...TW doesn't care if you can receive something for free...

And no...TW doesn't care if you can receive something for free...

Ha!

It really depends on the circumstance I would imagine...

The cable/satellite companies were taking the analog signals from the TV stations and forwarding them directly to their subscribers. That is why many people with cable "failed" the test, because they were seeing the exact same signal as people watching analog with an antenna.

No need to worry, the cable companies will switch to the digital signal before the switch, so cable/sat customers are still ok.

So I guess the cable companies weren't included in the test? That makes no sense at all. Why have the test? They now have people more confused than ever. Many think their analog sets won't work even on cable. Maybe it is a ruse to sell more TVs. The average person doesn't read this blog. I think a lot of the misinformation is intentional to sell cable or TVs

I grew up in Mt. Airy...What part do you live in??? I grew up behind Mt. Airy Elementary...which of course has been torn down...off of Colerain and Goldenrod...

I live off of North Bend west of the water tower. The High Ground.

...and just a couple of miles from where I grew up out in Green Township (Reemelin Road).

We transmitted the "test" on only our analog transmitter.

We fed regular programming to our fiber feeds to TWC and DirecTV and, of course, our digital transmitter.

Therefore, if your "pay" TV provider is fed by fiber or, like Insight in NKY among others, takes their feed from our digital transmitter then you wouldn't have seen the test.

If, however, your service provider is still using our analog transmitter to re-transmit to you then that feed will go away in February. It might be something you want to ask them about between now and then.

The "glich" in this test was introduced when one of the locals ( not WKRC) transmitted the "test" video on ALL their feeds. You probably wouldn't want to put them in charge of a one-car funeral.

We're all going to do it again in mid-January.

I live off of North Bend west of the water tower. The High Ground.

...and just a couple of miles from where I grew up out in Green Township (Reemelin Road).

I think I know the area you are talking about...I used to go there all the time when I had friends that lived back there...West of the tower that is...

Bob - Any chance you will fire up the new digital channel 12 anytime soon so those of us that were not up at 0 dark thirty :) can test our antennas for the new 12?

thanks

jim

We transmitted the "test" on only our analog transmitter.

We fed regular programming to our fiber feeds to TWC and DirecTV and, of course, our digital transmitter.

Therefore, if your "pay" TV provider is fed by fiber or, like Insight in NKY among others, takes their feed from our digital transmitter then you wouldn't have seen the test.

If, however, your service provider is still using our analog transmitter to re-transmit to you then that feed will go away in February. It might be something you want to ask them about between now and then.

The "glich" in this test was introduced when one of the locals ( not WKRC) transmitted the "test" video on ALL their feeds. You probably wouldn't want to put them in charge of a one-car funeral.

We're all going to do it again in mid-January.

Bob - Any chance you will fire up the new digital channel 12 anytime soon so those of us that were not up at 0 dark thirty :) can test our antennas for the new 12?

Sure. Less than 2 months from now: February 17th. ;)

Seriously, you missed the one-and-only pre-test.

Since it takes almost a half hour to make the plumbing changes (6" coax sections bolted and unbolted!) to go to it and another half hour back to analog, it's not a casual test.

Next time we do it we won't be going back. Sorry.

fair enough :)

The "glich" in this test was introduced when one of the locals ( not WKRC) transmitted the "test" video on ALL their feeds. You probably wouldn't want to put them in charge of a one-car funeral
Who was it? I noticed WLWT had a crawl running later that night saying that if you saw the "test" video on Time Warner that you were still OK and it was safe to ignore... it wasn't them, was it?

Greetings,

I have some questions about amplifying my signal, but first I will describe my current setup. I live in Westwood. Right now I have a radio shack antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&parentPage=family) running 100 ft on a single cable from the second floor of my house. At the end of the run I have it passively split to two VBOX catseye DTA150's (http://www.vboxcomm.com/product3.htm) in a Vista Media Center PC. This setup works great during fair weather, but during overcast, and even just super cold weather (atmospheric pressure affecting my signal?) I loose WKRC, WCET, & WSTR. The gain setting on the radioshack antenna is 1/3, any higher and I loose pretty much all channels, and setting to off (unplugged) is just as bad.

So I just purchased a "Terrestrial Digital DB2" and a uhf/vhf combiner, neither have been received in the mail yet. I plan to utilize the radioshack antenna only for VHF (WCPO.)

So now that I am incorporating the DB2, a passive antenna, Im thinking that I need to amplify my signal after the uhf/vhf combiner and also at the end of my 100 ft with an amplified splitter to my tuners. The part that I am unsure of is how many db's should I have before the 100 ft run and at the split? How many decibels do I need at each point (10, 15, 20, 24, 30?) Im also thinking that it wouldn't hurt for the first amp (after the combiner and before the 100ft run) to have a built in FM trap..

Any advice is greatly appreciated!!

Thank You,

Ryan

First off...unplugging the RS antenna is a nono...It just won't work...It is an active antenna that needs power to pass the signal...Turn the amp down as low as you can but don't unplug it...I had that antenna a couple of years ago and if I remember correctly the amplifier only works for the UHF band...Do you lose WCPO when it is unplugged also??? If so then the rabbit ears are connected to the amp...Which is a pre-amp BTW and not to be confused with a regular amplifier....If not then take the thing back and get a set of rabbit ears for $10...

Second...Are you using all 100' of cable??? I presume you are using RG6 coax??? If you don't need all 100' then shorten the cable to the length you need as this will help eliminate unneccessary attenuation...

Third...The splitter will cut the signal approximately in half...You only need a small amp that prefferably has an adjustable gain control...Or a fixed output gain of about 5 db...Put the amp BEFORE the splitter so this way the splitter is outputting close to the same level that is being input to the amp...

Now all this is presuming you even need an amp/booster at all...In Westwood you should be close enough to the towers that you won't need any additional amplification...Your signal should be plenty strong enough to begin with...This is for the Cincinnati stations only...If you are attempting to pickup the Dayton and Kentucky channels also then you will need a pre-amp and probably WON'T need an amp...

Also...Are you planning on roof/attic mounting the DB2 or just putting it in the same room as the RS antenna??? Antenna positioning is the key to successful reception...Don't forket too...WKRC is changing frequency from UHF to VHF on Feb 17 so you will need to do a rescan Feb 17 or manually add VHF 12 to your computer...

WOW!!! My VHF-HI antenna came in today...:cool:

WHAT a difference!!! Holy cow is the WCPO-DT signal solid as a rock now!!!:D I have no qualms when channel 12 moves frequencies as I am sure it will come in just as rock solid and stable...I can highly recommend this antenna and the price can't be beat...I presume they are in stock now since I got mine...Here is the link...

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

Good news. I just received that antenna and I will probably put it up next week..........

First off...unplugging the RS antenna is a nono...It just won't work...It is an active antenna that needs power to pass the signal...Turn the amp down as low as you can but don't unplug it...I had that antenna a couple of years ago and if I remember correctly the amplifier only works for the UHF band...Do you lose WCPO when it is unplugged also??? If so then the rabbit ears are connected to the amp...Which is a pre-amp BTW and not to be confused with a regular amplifier....If not then take the thing back and get a set of rabbit ears for $10...

Just checked, no WCPO with the chord unplugged, so I will likely donate the antenna to a friend, I will invest in a dedicated set of rabbit ears. The annoying thing about the antenna is that it resets the gain to the highest setting if we ever loose power, and sometimes on its own (maybe rf interference?)

Second...Are you using all 100' of cable??? I presume you are using RG6 coax??? If you don't need all 100' then shorten the cable to the length you need as this will help eliminate unneccessary attenuation...

RG6 F Type Quad Shielded Coaxial 18AWG 75Ohm cable. Yes 100 ft. It actually follows the same conduit a twc run comes in through from the outside, follows the outside wall to the second floor and comes in. So the run goes from the second floor, outside (for 2/3 of the run, if that makes any difference) and back inside to the basement, where my Media Center PC sits, through an existing hole also used for my primary twc run. There isn't much slack to trim.

Third...The splitter will cut the signal approximately in half...You only need a small amp that prefferably has an adjustable gain control...Or a fixed output gain of about 5 db...Put the amp BEFORE the splitter so this way the splitter is outputting close to the same level that is being input to the amp...

So place something like this (http://www.summitsource.com/10g212-adjustable-gain-preamplifier-up-to-30-db-uhf-vhf-tv-antenna-high-gain-signal-antennacraft-preamplifier-hdtv-offair-television-aerial-mast-mount-signal-tv-booster-switchable-fm-trap-permacolor-part-10g212-p-7965.html) before my existing passive splitter?

Now all this is presuming you even need an amp/booster at all...In Westwood you should be close enough to the towers that you won't need any additional amplification...Your signal should be plenty strong enough to begin with...This is for the Cincinnati stations only...If you are attempting to pickup the Dayton and Kentucky channels also then you will need a pre-amp and probably WON'T need an amp...

Yea, I guess I will see if any amplification will be needed at all, considering Im within 5 miles of all the major towers (according to antenna web.) Not sure if being so close is causing any interference...

Also...Are you planning on roof/attic mounting the DB2 or just putting it in the same room as the RS antenna??? Antenna positioning is the key to successful reception...Don't forket too...WKRC is changing frequency from UHF to VHF on Feb 17 so you will need to do a rescan Feb 17 or manually add VHF 12 to your computer...

I am planning on putting the antenna in the same room on the second floor, likely in the window facing the towers.

Which is a pre-amp BTW and not to be confused with a regular amplifier....The only difference between a pre-amp and "regular amp" are the location they are inserted... Putting a "regular amp" in right after the antenna and before the cable run would make that a "pre-amp," just as taking a "pre-amp" and putting it later on in the path would make it a "regular amp" (i.e. they are the same thing). In most cases it would be desirable to amplify the signal as early as possible (i.e. before cable runs and splitters, etc.) as is what I think you were getting at.

In any case, using an amplifier in Westwood is probably not necessary and maybe not even a good idea at all.

We will get a total of 7 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 7 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Game:

8:15pm NFLN - Indianapolis at Jacksonville $
Bob Papa, Cris Collinsworth

Saturday Night Game:

8:15pm NFLN - Baltimore at Dallas $
Bob Papa, Marshall Faulk, Deion Sanders

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Cleveland*
Kevin Harlan, Rich Gannon

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Arizona at New England
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Atlanta at Minnesota
Dick Stockton, Brian Baldinger, Brian Billick

Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Carolina at NY Giants
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea Kramer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Green Bay at Chicago+
Mike Tirico, Ron Jaworski, Tony Kornheiser, Suzy Kolber, Michele Tafoya


+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers (none this week)
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:
Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Pittsburgh played Tennesee today on CBS. No team (Baltimore) plays twice in a week! The 4PM FOX game in Dayton is ATL vs Min.

Pittsburgh played Tennesee today on CBS. No team (Baltimore) plays twice in a week! The 4PM FOX game in Dayton is ATL vs Min.
Cut Jim some slack, he doesn't have to provide those listings every week, ya know. :D

Jim, I once again reiterate my THANKS for you posting that every week. Above and beyond, my man.

Pittsburgh played Tennesee today on CBS. No team (Baltimore) plays twice in a week! The 4PM FOX game in Dayton is ATL vs Min.Sorry, in my haste posting today (Usually do it during the week while I'm at work but have been out of the office and on vacation...) I forgot to change that game from last week's template. I did change the announcers, but forgot to change the teams playing.

Cut Jim some slack, he doesn't have to provide those listings every week, ya know. :D

Jim, I once again reiterate my THANKS for you posting that every week. Above and beyond, my man.And again, you're welcome. I do appreciate any corrections/comments, although I could do without the attitude. :)

I have edited/fixed the above post although obviously it will do little good at this point...

So I guess the cable companies weren't included in the test? That makes no sense at all. Why have the test? They now have people more confused than ever. Many think their analog sets won't work even on cable. Maybe it is a ruse to sell more TVs. The average person doesn't read this blog. I think a lot of the misinformation is intentional to sell cable or TVs


The local cable companies, TWC, Insight, and Comcast were all involved in the test and worked with the local stations to make sure everything was right. Time Warner was especially involved to make sure everything went well. As is posted elsewhere, 1 local station and 1 small market station erred in their feed to Time Warner which caused some problems. The test helped far more people than it hurt and none of the people involved in this project had anything to do with selling TV's or cable.

The local cable companies, TWC, Insight, and Comcast were all involved in the test and worked with the local stations to make sure everything was right. Time Warner was especially involved to make sure everything went well. As is posted elsewhere, 1 local station and 1 small market station erred in their feed to Time Warner which caused some problems. The test helped far more people than it hurt and none of the people involved in this project had anything to do with selling TV's or cable.

Ah! So that's how the snafu happened. I bet I can guess the local station involved :)

Thanks for the clarification.

Cut Jim some slack, he doesn't have to provide those listings every week, ya know. :D

Jim, I once again reiterate my THANKS for you posting that every week. Above and beyond, my man.

He asked for corrections...... and it was 6 hours after his posting, plenty of time for someone else to point it out... nicer?

As is posted elsewhere, 1 local station and 1 small market station erred in their feed to Time Warner which caused some problems.

I bet I can guess the local station involved :)

The "glich" in this test was introduced when one of the locals ( not WKRC) transmitted the "test" video on ALL their feeds. You probably wouldn't want to put them in charge of a one-car funeral.

Why is everyone so reluctant to state WHICH station(s) erred? Who was it??

I'll step-up. It was WLWT.
Their GM was apologizing like crazy last week on the 6PM News 5 broadcasts.
Hmmmmm?

I'll step-up. It was WLWT.
Their GM was apologizing like crazy last week on the 6PM News 5 broadcasts.
Hmmmmm?Thanks for your courageousness. ;) That explains the crawl they had later that evening.

They were also running a crawl saying it was a mistake the night of the test...

They were also running a crawl saying it was a mistake the night of the test...Isn't that what I just said? :D

I replied directly to ncincy1...I hadn't seen your post...Sorry...

I love the classic movie channel bit on 25.4 with WDJO 1160 as the audio lol.

Are they going to start showing The Classic Movie Channel on 25-4?

Also, MLB is starting a network in a few days. Has anyone heard if TWC will carry it anytime soon?

Anyone here in the local TWC area have a Hauppage QAM tuner card for a pc? I gave up on the Pinnacle I had because the software was utterly unusable and ordered a Hauppage HVR-2250 dual tuner card. The only clear QAM channels it finds are the local Hamilton city billboards and analog 22 and 45 plus a few others I am not interested in.

The Pinnacle card did nicely find the locals and even displayed their channel info in the favorites list so I could at least see that the software was doing something. This Hauppage, however, sees the analog channels but only lists about 20-30 clear QAM which apparently arent clear after all since they wont tune.

I can directly tune to a frequency also but have no clue what the HD locals might be... anyone know? (TWC Fairfield remember).

All in all my beginning attempts at gathering some knowledge to someday build a HTPC are being nipped in the bud... :(


[oh yes, using XP MCE 2005 but I know about XP and qam not being viable in the media center. I am trying to simply get the WinTV software working so I can occasionally record one of the few shows I do like on network HDTV.]

Also, MLB is starting a network in a few days. Has anyone heard if TWC will carry it anytime soon?

TW Cinci is adding some channels on Dec 30. One of them is MLB Network (std def) on channel 178 according to Kiesewetters blog. But the channel doesnt start until Jan 1. No mention of the HD version that I have seen.

Bubster,

I am in the Sharonville / Pisgah area and do QAM with an HD-Homerun. My TWC clear channels are 84 (WLW + KET), 85 (WXIX + WCET), 86 (WKRC + WCPO) & 113 (WSTR + WPTD). There are a few others with community & TWC promo stuff I never tune in.

Bubster,

I am in the Sharonville / Pisgah area and do QAM with an HD-Homerun. My TWC clear channels are 84 (WLW + KET), 85 (WXIX + WCET), 86 (WKRC + WCPO) & 113 (WSTR + WPTD). There are a few others with community & TWC promo stuff I never tune in.

That's part of the issue. The WinTV software is so lame it seems to use its own numbering system.

That's part of the issue. The WinTV software is so lame it seems to use its own numbering system.

Maybe WinTV is using the frequency instead of the QAM channel.
Ch 84 = 585
Ch 85 = 591
Ch 86 = 597
Ch 113 = 729

Maybe WinTV is using the frequency instead of the QAM channel.
Ch 84 = 585
Ch 85 = 591
Ch 86 = 597
Ch 113 = 729

Sort of, it appears. I still can't get it to work very well at all. Considering an external device like yours, how do you like it?

I really like the HD-HR but considering that you had already invested in two HD tuners, I resisted the urge to recommend that you get one. Some early models had power converter issues but replacements were provided free of charge. Mine has worked pretty flawlessly for almost two years. I can recall reboots being required only a couple of times following a failed recording and I record A LOT.

It includes a license for Total Media (http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/instructions/totalmedia) but I use mine with Beyond TV. It is also supported by Sage, WinMCE and MythTV among others (http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun) that includes the freeware GBPVR. You have many good software apps from which to choose across multiple OS platforms.

Setup with BTV was a little tedious but the latest release (4.9) has supposedly streamlined that quite a bit. I have yet to upgrade from 4.8 so I cannot elaborate. Check out the Silicon Dust web site (http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/instructions) and their support forums for a wealth of info. (http://www.silicondust.com/forum/)

The HD-HR is a little pricey at retail $169 but it has been available from Newegg.com at @ $140 with a promotional code several times in the last few months. Subscribe to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15228420#post15228420) and sign up for Newegg's Newsletter (https://secure.newegg.com/NewMyAccount/Subscriptions.aspx) to get their specials and promo codes. If you are into instant gratification and don't mind paying retail, it is usually in stock at the Mosteller Road Micro Center.

Considering an external device like yours, how do you like it?
+1 for HDHR. I have two. :D

By the way, how "split" is your cable, meaning, how many splitters do you have before the tuner card? Historically, people have split the heck out of cable (because it took quite a bit of splitting and long cable runs to make a noticeable difference on an analog SD TV), but I have read on other boards that QAM through tuner cards requires a bit more strength and clarity, and people forget that every splitter weakens and muddies their signal... not to mention the cable company will run several hundred feet of (lossy) coax to your house like it's no big deal... perhaps put a splitter right where the cable signal enters the house and run a dedicated cable to the tuner card?

BobOnTheJob:
My brother lives just North of Kings Island and he found a dead TV carrier that shows 41-22 on his DTV. 100% signal. Any idea what he might be seeing?

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,116988.0.html

Oddly, I finally got it to actually work by installing Vista Home premium and using a QAM hack for VMC released as a beta by Hauppage.

I really don't want to run Vista. Why in the @%*&! won't this card's software work in XP? I have a Samsung QAM tuner hooked up to my Samsung DLP and a LG bedroom tv that have no issues with clear QAM channels.

I never dreamed getting it to work on a PC where I could actually record some of it would be such a nightmare. :eek::eek::eek:

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 4 games. CBS and FOX both have double-headers this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Kansas City at Cincinnati
Bill Macatee, Steve Beuerlein

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) NY Giants at Minnesota*
Dick Stockton, Brian Baldinger

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Miami at NY Jets
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Dallas at Philadelphia
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

Sunday Night Football:

8:15pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Denver at San Diego
Al Michaels, John Madden, Andrea Kramer


+Cable Only (none this week)
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:
The FOX early game is blacked out in Cincinnati. However, OTA viewers can avoid the blackout by watching WRGT 45 out of Dayton.

The Bengals can avoid last place in the AFC north with a win today and a Cleveland loss.

Starting this season, all NFL games will be produced in HD. All games will
also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur, and that there are only two times all year where this even has the potential to occur (maybe three depending on NBC Flex). Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

I've been working my way through numerous posts trying to find the 'right' antenna.

I'm hoping that local folks can shed some light on my dilemma. Here is a copy of my tvfool report, I live in Blue Ash.

http://www.tvfool.com/modeling/tmp/afa3f2aab5/getdigital.php

My story is that I just got an HDTV. I've had Dish for a couple of years and decided to stay with them. I upgraded to a VIP 722 and added HD, only to find that I do NOT have Local HD. I'm VERY unhappy about this, I may still hash it out with Dish. But here I am.

So I'm trying to add OTA local HD channels. I broke out my CHEAP RCA rabbit ears and was pleasantly surprised when I hooked it up to my Panasonic plasma. So I hooked it up to the back of my VIP 722 and my smile turned down. It seems the tuner is inferior to that of the tuner in my TV. I couldn't get a lock on nearly as many station and the top locals are less than perfect.

So I started by purchasing an RCA 1550, which failed miserably (back it went). I bought a Radio shack 15-1878, which did fairly well. But not it didn't beat my rabbit ears by much (if at all). And finally I'm currently trying the RS- 15-1892 affectionately known as the UFO. Honestly I'm not done with it. Hopefully tomorrow I can get the Christmas tree out, and that will open up more space by our bay window. But it doesn't look promising as I cant seem to find any difference in the directional setting using the remote. But what I want anyway is something omnidirectional. That way my DVR can do it's thing while I'm away.

My test station is channel 9. That is the station that I want to watch that has been giving me the most grief. The new wrinkle is that my wife has discovered some cooking show that is ONLY available on 54.2 (it's called Primal Grill). I don't believe this would be available on Dish HD as I don't think the alternate channels are (ie. .1, .2, .3 ect) are available yet at all even with the Eastern Arc dish.

So according to TV Fool, I need at least an attic mount antenna. Part of the problem I have with searching antennas is finding one that is both UHF and VHF. As I'm sure many of my fellow Cincinnatians have had to do.

Some additional info, I live in a ranch made of brick. Is it true that brick is particularly bad for reception? I don't figure it could be as bad as stucco with it's internal wire mesh.

I don't think I'm asking for too much. I want the major local channels (5,9,12,19,48,54,64) and their sister stations. I don't care about Dayton, or any other markets. I'd prefer to stay indoor (in the living room), but I'm ready to go to the attic if need be. I'm loath to put something else on the roof though.

Any advice that you could give would be greatly appreciated. If you have any further questions of me . . . ask.

Thanks,

Bear

I've been working my way through numerous posts trying to find the 'right' antenna.

A Channel Master 4228HD antenna (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=4228-HD) with a Channel Master 7777 preamp (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC7777) in your attic ought to be able to pick up all of the Cincinnati stations just fine. It may be able to pick up the Dayton stations too without a rotor (if you point it towards Dayton).

My test station is channel 9. That is the station that I want to watch that has been giving me the most grief.

You're not the only one. It's the hardest channel in our area to pick up using an set-top antenna. (Attic and outdoor antennas that pick up high-VHF signals have no problem.) They're supposed to tweak their final setup after analog shutoff to improve their signal. Until then, it's still going to be a pain.

For ch 9 - and ch 12 come Feb 17 - I can readily recommendhttp://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13 to be used with the UHF antenna of your choice...Make sure to get one of these http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ to connect the 2 antennas...This will allow you to have the best placement options for possibly receiving a few more stations from Dayton also...Being in Blue Ash I doubt you will need a pre amp...At the very least try the antenna out first...You can always get a pre-amp or even just an amp if needed later...But as close to the Cinti towers as you are any amp will likely overdrive the signal making things worse...

NBC Weather Plus totally gone from WLWT 5.2. It's now the Power of 5 Radar Network.

Being in Blue Ash I doubt you will need a pre amp...At the very least try the antenna out first...You can always get a pre-amp or even just an amp if needed later...But as close to the Cinti towers as you are any amp will likely overdrive the signal making things worse...

You may be right. Unfortunately the only way to find out is to experiment. Fortunately installing the antenna in the attic and running the cables is the hard part. Adding a preamp (or a rotator) is a cinch.

Time Warner added a group of HD channels yesterday. Included are TW994 (Sci-Fi) and TW995 USA)

Thanks for the quick reply Thora and Spicer,

I'll definitely take a look at both of those antenna solutions. I consider the preamp a 'last resort'. I'm not looking at pulling in distant stations. I figure that part of my problems are signal reflections off of local building (sorry I forgot what that is officially called multi something or other I think).

I got the Christmas tree packed up today and will experiment with my RS- UFO in the window tonight or tomorrow. It would be nice if that was all I needed to get the my local stations.

Thanks,

Bear

I'm not looking at pulling in distant stations.

Though it wouldn't take a lot of extra effort to pull in Dayton from your location. There are some side benefits. You can get The CW in HD. You can get ThisTV network programming on WRGT's second subchannel. You can get CBS in 5.1 surround sound via WHIO instead of 2.0 with WKRC. (They're going to eventually upgrade to 5.1.) During the NFL season, the stations in Dayton usually have alternate games going on. So if you don't want to see the games in Cincinnati, you can point to Dayton and pick it up from there.

I figure that part of my problems are signal reflections off of local building (sorry I forgot what that is officially called multi something or other I think).

It's called multipath. Is there a lot of ghosting on your analog stations? Fortunately the Channel Master 4228 HD is very directional and is good at getting rid of ghosts. (Though on digital, there are no ghosts per se. You just take a hit on your signal quality/strength that may cause more dropouts.)

I got the Christmas tree packed up today and will experiment with my RS- UFO in the window tonight or tomorrow. It would be nice if that was all I needed to get the my local stations.

Try your UFO antenna in the attic. You may get it high enough off the ground for it to make a significant improvement. I was surprised how well one of my set-top antennas worked once I put it on a stand in my attic (but not good enough, I still needed a full-fledged antenna).

I wonder if Ch. 54 will ever fix their on screen program information. It's been messed up for a couple of weeks now.

WLWT-DT at about 10:51am today stopped sending any data... No picture or sound on 5-1 or 5-2 although "signal strength" reading is at 99% for me. Checked analog 5 and it was fine.

See wlwt-down.zip (attached)


--------------------------
UPDATE: as of 11:03am, it's back:

See wlwt-up.zip (attached)

NBC Weather Plus totally gone from WLWT 5.2. It's now the Power of 5 Radar Network.From what I've seen on the video inserts, they are calling it News 5 Weather Plus... They have removed some of the WeatherPlus branded graphics though. NBC announced dropping WeatherPlus several months ago and it appears that WLWT has decided to keep 5-2 as a weather resource (as many other NBC affiliates have done).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=128294&stc=1&d=1230913236

Personally I like the 5-2 weather better than 9-2 because I like to see whats coming our way...and can usually predict better than the weather people...and what isn't...When it's already on top of us I think even I can say what it is doing by looking out my window...

Personally I like the 5-2 weather better than 9-2 because I like to see whats coming our way...and can usually predict better than the weather people...and what isn't...When it's already on top of us I think even I can say what it is doing by looking out my window...I like 5-2 better as well. I like the service WCPO provides but in my opinion 9-2 Weather Tracker channel is pretty "ugly" looking...

I wonder if Ch. 54 will ever fix their on screen program information. It's been messed up for a couple of weeks now.

I didn't know it was down... The PSIP system had been fed bad data... It looks fine here at this time.

William

Time Warner added a group of HD channels yesterday. Included are TW994 (Sci-Fi) and TW995 USA)

On the Amelia (old Adelphia) system, they also added 985 TLC-HD, 988 Hallmark Movie HD, 990 FoxNews HD & 991 CNN-HD. Those 4 were added to the main cincy system in November. They also added 2 StdDef channels: Sprout and MLB network.

The Amelia system is still missing ESPNU-HD that cincy got in November, and also did not get Golf-HD, Animal Planet-HD, Science-HD & ESPNEWS-HD that I think cincy got on Dec 30.

I didn't know it was down... The PSIP system had been fed bad data... It looks fine here at this time.

William

In case it helps, I only noticed problems occuring with the info in the EITs for a few days or so, and Noticed last night around 12AM EST the text for the program info was back to normal. However, at that time for KET1 the program info was incorrect -- A quite interesting and enjoyable program about KET's 40 years of History was airing, but a different program was said to be airing at the time ...

BTW, for those who missed it it was mentioned in that program KET's "HD" upgrades to their production facilities/studios which I know you've been working on for some time should be complete by Spring 2009 ...

Update: Some more info can be found here in the "going digital" portion :

http://www.ket.org/about/ceo.htm

Since "The Ryan Interview", and portions of it which ran on PBS's "old" HD demo loop, I've very much been hoping for more HD productions from KET ...

FCC Chairman Martin to Visit Ohio (Cincinnati, Dayton and Columbus) On January 6th For DTV Outreach, More info here :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-287701A1.pdf

and I wonder.. how many people even know or care to know who kevin martin is... I wish more people would...

I'm guessing the sessions will be pretty short in order for him to get from Cincinnati to Dayton to Columbus on the schedule they've posted...

and I wonder.. how many people even know or care to know who kevin martin is... I wish more people would...Me too. I think he's done a fair number of good things. Some not so good as well but on the whole from what I know I am generally appreciative of his efforts.

Fixed my WLWT-DT audio dropout issue...Bad Yagi antenna...Replaced the Yagi with a rebuilt w/#6 copper DIY DB4...Audio is consistent now with no dropouts...

Next is to replace the POS rat-shack variable - and noisy - amplifier I have been suffering through using...I just ordered a low noise pre-amp that I am sure will provide a much cleaner signal...Together with aiming the DB4 optimally and the pre-amp I am confident I will be able to pull in a couple of additional stations with consistent strength and quality...

I ran across this list of maps (in PDF format) comparing the full-power stations current analog coverage and post-transition coverage, including places on the fringes of the coverage area where the stations are picked up or lost relative to their analog counterpart.

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/

So, with the death of Weather+, WLWT-DT carrying the SuperBowl, and plenty of time between now and the SB, couldn't WLWT-DT give us full bandwidth on 5-1? I know it won't happen, but so can dream can't I?

bearsloft - I live nearby in Evendale (45241). From your tvfool plot, you actually live a slight bit west of me (my Dayton stations are at 9 degrees, yours are at 10/11). I do have a two-story house though, so I have an advantage (and I am on the hill), but I have antennas in the attic and I get all of Cincinnati (including 54) and all of Dayton except the CW (hardest to get) just fine. I currently have two antennas, one for Cincinnati and one for Dayton (running through a PC). They have reflector screens on them, making them directional towards their respective towers.

However, before that, I had just one, and it got all of Cincinnati and most of Dayton. It was a DIY "DB4" model, similar to the one shown in the infamous youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw), but with 10ga copper house wiring (romex) instead of coat hangers. It's not supposed to get VHF, but it got channel 9 (physical 10) just fine, since I (we) are so close to town. And since it was not reflected (with a screen), it was "omnidirectional" and got some of the Dayton stations as well, though not as well as my current directional antenna.

You said you have a brick house, but what about your roof construction, and which way does your house face? If you have standard plywood/wood truss build with shingles, and no aluminum-faced insulation, you might be fine. I have the flat ends of my house facing North/South (sloped sides due east and west) but I aimed my antennas just off-line from north/south, enough to "miss" the aluminum-faced insulation board, and they work.

As for fishing coax, I would think it would be fairly easy as long as you have enough attic to move around in - with it being a ranch, all you have to do is drill down through the top plate of the stud wall behind the TV, right? And better to do it now (or in the Spring) than to wait until the summer.... :D

So, with the death of Weather+, WLWT-DT carrying the SuperBowl, and plenty of time between now and the SB, couldn't WLWT-DT give us full bandwidth on 5-1? I know it won't happen, but so can dream can't I?
You can certainly dream, but WLWT decided to keep 5-2 as a local weather channel using the old WeatherPlus equipment. It's still basically the same thing, just without the national inserts. I'd love to see them temporarily "turn off" or "disable" 5-2 for the Super Bowl, but their current set up is already the best of any station in the area (near 17Mbps to 5-1), and I am excited for the Super Bowl on WLWT-DT.

WLWT-DT certainly looks a lot better than WDTN-DT for the NBC HD broadcats.

... and I am excited for the Super Bowl on WLWT-DT.
Except for having to listen to John Madden for four hours. :eek: :(

I may actually mute the game during play, and turn on the volume during the commercials. :D

Except for having to listen to John Madden for four hours. :eek: :(

I may actually mute the game during play, and turn on the volume during the commercials. :DI don't really mind John at all...

Also I know you're not serious but I wouldn't mute the sound during play as Wendel Stevens will be mixing the sound!

Watching the CH9 news this evening, it appears that the crowd was not too nice to Kevin Martin. I believe the term "tempers flared" was used. :eek:

"I don't understand why I should have to pay all this money for TV. TV is free and has always been free. Now we have to pay for it. They should deliver it to your door like the phone book."

(of course, I'm sure the woman who said that pays for phone service) :rolleyes:

But what about the dumbass comment about "if you don't have a coupon already to have your neighbor apply for one for you"??? Totally idiotic thing to say...

Another stupid thing was Matarese (sp?) asking if the switchover date...which has been changed multiple times already...will be delayed because these few people didn't get coupons...:rolleyes:

Just read that Jack Atherton has had a "departure" from WXIX... Not sure whose decision it was but also just read that the rumor is that he may end up doing 11pm news with Sheree Paolello on WLWT.

I think I'm behind the times on this news, but didn't see it mentioned here yet!

Just read that Jack Atherton has had a "departure" from WXIX... Not sure whose decision it was but also just read that the rumor is that he may end up doing 11pm news with Sheree Paolello on WLWT.

I think I'm behind the times on this news, but didn't see it mentioned here yet!
Is there anywhere online to find local news ratings? Who is first (in each of the slots, morning, evening, late)?

While I have no idea (hence my question), it seems to me like WXIX news does not get much viewership. My guess is simply that they have not had news as long as the "big three", and the generation of folks who still watch TV news has been watching since before WXIX started having it (and never really gave them a chance).

Perhaps (if this is true), Atherton was let go?

I know when WXIX hired Horstmeyer away from WKRC they stated that they were making a push to become the top early news team, but my impression is that it failed... in fact, my wife and I prefer his replacement (John Gumm) over Horstmeyer himself.

On another note - any updates on when WKRC will finally get their news on in HD? I had hoped it wouldn't be long when they tested it during the election but have not heard anything since....

Atherton announced his leaving WXIX about a week or so ago on the news...At the end of the newscast actually...No warning but that was that...

Personally I liked him...I can do without Horstmeyer(sp?)...Nothing personal...I just don't care for him myself...

I did hear the rumor about Atherton going to WLWT on AM 700...Bill Cunningham show I think...

Service was installed on Monday evening. Internet is VDSL2, enters house via copper, and current analog cable through coax. I will try to get pictures of the boxes on the side of the building if anyone knows what's in each.

Internet speedtests are showing roughly ~20Mbps download and and slightly higher upload speeds. Tested by viewing 1080p video through quicktime and it played seemlessly. I don't know if it streamed though, so that may not be a fair judgement.

Analog cable has very good quality except for a couple of channels. Cinti Bell put all the locals on the same channel, so at the low frequencies where the stations match, there is slight ghosting. The apartment is in Corryville, so the towers are visible from the front porch!

I wish I could tell you what the 39 HD channels look like, but no HDTV in the house. Overall, pretty happy with it so far.

Did they change out the coax in the home or did they use the existing wiring and connectors??? What you are describing is ingress...Ingress can be caused due to bad cable...bad connectors...loose connectors...bad TV...etc...

I have a 3 yr old TWC HD DVR. What the current receivers? Better/worse over 3 yrs? Are the still silver? My silver DVR really is ugly in a rack of black.

Service was installed on Monday evening. Internet is VDSL2, enters house via copper, and current analog cable through coax. I will try to get pictures of the boxes on the side of the building if anyone knows what's in each.

I see that you are in West Chester. Are you near Tylersville Rd or further south? Is there any information as to where CBT is offering this service now?

// ScottA

I see that you are in West Chester. Are you near Tylersville Rd or further south? Is there any information as to where CBT is offering this service now?

// ScottA
The apartment is in Corryville
:)

Someone posted a link a few weeks ago concerning CBell's new high speed product and I actually clicked through expressing my interest. Funny thing though, I got an auto-reply email saying the person was out of the office and would return after the holidays. Not long after that I got a call from a guy sounding kind of confused as to how he got the contact in the first place. I explained I saw a link on an internet forum and that dumbfounded him even more it sounded like.

Anyway, he said it is in the infant stages of rolling out so I was not going to have any 30mbps goodness in Fairfield any time soon. :(

It was quite humorous he had no idea how I even ended up in his inbox ( I didn't send an email, I filled out the info on the linked page). :D

they are mostly targeting multi family units. I do not look for that anytime soon for us single family folks

Did they change out the coax in the home or did they use the existing wiring and connectors??? What you are describing is ingress...Ingress can be caused due to bad cable...bad connectors...loose connectors...bad TV...etc...

This is what suspect. I was not at the apartment during the install, but I was not very happy to see that Cinti Bell did not change any of the coax that was outside the walls of the apartment. I believe I will be making a call to them to have a tech sent out to evaluate. If necessary, I will request digital cable for the same rate as the deluxe analog. From the outside, it looks like they found the units coax out of the huge bundle and simply connected it their new coax coming from what I assume is a digital fiber to digital/analog coax converter. Also, if I can get to the apartment before it gets dark, I will show you all what it looks like. So far, the analog cable looks much better, from channel 2 to 99 are all clear, except those few with locals interfering.

Sorry for any confusion on the location, but again, this is in the Corryville neighborhood of Cincinnati proper. I am guessing this area is targeted purely because of the number of customers and density of the neighborhood. The city clearly has it advantages over the sprawl of the suburbs when deploying this technology! However, I imagine it will continue to be spread as the "backbone" of the network is already there, just not these last "mile" feeds of fiber.

I will keep you updated on this, but yes, it is obvious that this is very early in development as there is very limited information available online or in print, but this is typical of Cinti Bell!

Is anyone with a device using Digital TVGOS guide info (Sent by WKRC-DT or WHIO-DT) getting any TVGoS digital listings for :

WDTN-DT
WLWT-DT
WPTO-DT
WXIX-DT
WRGT-DT

Thanks!

Began using DTVPal DVR here a few days ago -- It is a OTA HD DVR (ATSC only - 2 tuners) from E*, and uses the Digital TVGOS info currently transmitted by WKRC-DT or WHIO-DT for its guide info as well as PSIP EIT info when the TVGOS info isn't "available" for specific stations(or if it doesn't think it is) --- For some reason, It's using PSIP EIT info only for the above 5 stations, as well as (more understandably) for some of the other stations subchannels(more below on that).

I was wondering if that is happening because the TVGoS info isn't being sent for those, or if for some reason, in this case the DTVPal DVR isn't using/finding it properly for those specific stations.

In more detail for anyone interested, follows is a list of how the guide is working on DTVPal DVR here - Note: I'm Getting full 7 days of listings, including Detailed program descriptions on everything listed as using the Digital TVGOS info :

WDTN-DT - PSIP
WLWT-DT - PSIP
WHIO-DT - TVGOS (Both 7.1 and 7.2)
WCPO-DT - 9.1 - TVGOS / 9.2 - PSIP
WKRC-DT - TVGOS (both 12.1 and 12.2)
WPTO-DT - PSIP
WPTD-DT - TVGOS (all subchannels)
WXIX-DT - PSIP
WKEF-DT - TVGOS
WOTH-LD - No guide info
WBDT-DT - 26.1 = TVGOS, 26.2 = PSIP
WKOI-DT - 43.1 and 43.5 = TVGOS/43.2~43.4 = PSIP
WRGT-DT - PSIP
WCET-DT - TVGOS (both 48.1 and 48.2)
WCVN-DT - 54.1 = TVGOS/ 54.2~4 = PSIP
WSTR-DT - TVGOS

----------------------------------


Note: I'm not sure at this point whether or not the DTVPal DVR here is currently using "all" the TVGOS info from WKRC-DT, or whether or not some of it's coming from WHIO-DT -- However, I did some testing/ensuring that I was *only* receiving/using the TVGOS info from WHIO, and also with WKRC, and indeed, both of those stations are sending TVGOS info which is working with DTVPal DVR (I Used Middetown or Germantown, OH Zips when doing this, as well as factory reset of the unit and adding attenuators/etc. to make sure It wouldn't receive/decode WKRC when antenna aimed at Dayton, or WHIO when antenna aimed at Cincinnati/etc.) ....

----------------------------------------

TVGOS vs. PSIP :

Also, another thing I did was compare the Info in the EIT's (via TSreader) with the TVGOS info for the stations I'm getting that from ... Note the In *some* cases, interestingly enough, the program details in the EIT's are *more* descriptive(such as in some cases for KET1)/detailed than the TVGOS data, in other cases, the reverse is true(such as currently from WSTR, as there are no program details in their EIT's currently, only the title).

In case anyone who can't "see" what's in the PSIP EIT's (event information tables which contain the program info) is interested, while doing this/looking through the stations EIT's on morning of 1/8 with TSreader I also jotted down the following PSIP EIT's stats :


WDTN-DT - PSIP - 3 Days, with detailed program descriptions
WLWT-DT - PSIP - 24 Hours with detailed program descriptions
WHIO-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptions
WCPO-DT - PSIP - 24 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WKRC-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WPTO-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WPTD-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WXIX-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WKEF-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WOTH-LD - No PSIP EIT's/No Guide info
WBDT-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WKOI-DT - PSIP -43.1 = 4 Days - No details/43.2~42.5 out 2.5 days - No details
WRGT-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WCET-DT - PSIP - 12 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WCVN-DT - PSIP - 16~17 Hours with detailed program descriptons
WSTR-DT - PSIP - 22 Hours with NOdetailed program descriptons

TVGoS = TV Guide on Screen??? If so:

WDTN-DT-Yes
WLWT-DT-Yes
WPTO-DT-Yes
WXIX-DT-Yes
WRGT-DT-Yes

My DLP set has TVGoS, but I don't know how to tell where it gets its info from (analog or digital).

TVGoS Analog data = Transmitted mostly by *Analog* PBS member stations in their VBI. This of course will be going away OTA when analog shut off occurs.

TVGoS Digital data = TVGos Data Transmitted by WKRC/WHIO digital stations, and in most cases CBS affiliates elsewhere. IF you look at tsreader, it's in the "program 1" streams at PID 273 (at 0x0111) and 274(at 0x0112) in either WHIO or WKRC Transport Streams. Trip has a list of the Digital stations sending the TVGos digital data here :

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

Most devices that use/decode TVGos currently only implement the analog TVGos info. However, according to the M8B, it is "in the works" to add TVGoS digital support to TvGoS devices which have analog+digital tuners, but currently support analog TVGoS only -- See here for more info :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093923

What I'm talking/asking about however is the Digital TVGos info. The DTVPal DVR only supports the Digital TVGos info, I think there are a few other devices now that do as well.

Oh, BTW -- Forgot to mention Currently, the TVGOS (digital anyway) info for WCET-DT 48.2 is incorrect -- It's still showing program info for "World" ... But, WCET has been sending "Create" OTA instead of World recently, maybe for a week or two ... The PSIP EIT program info they're sending is correct ....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/th_CIMG0317.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/?action=view&current=CIMG0317.jpg)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/th_CIMG0318.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/?action=view&current=CIMG0318.jpg)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/th_CIMG0315.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/?action=view&current=CIMG0315.jpg)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/th_CIMG0316.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/?action=view&current=CIMG0316.jpg)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/th_CIMG0313.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/?action=view&current=CIMG0313.jpg)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/th_CIMG0314.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/?action=view&current=CIMG0314.jpg)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/th_CIMG0311.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/?action=view&current=CIMG0311.jpg)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/th_CIMG0312.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cincybearcat86/Cincinnati%20Bell%20FTTP/?action=view&current=CIMG0312.jpg)

In the links are the junction boxes for the Cinti Bell FTTP service. Each photo has a description.