:eek::eek::eek:









If that were my building...I'd be PISSED OFF...:mad:

It is clear CB does not know how to wire a MDU...I think it is hilarious they brought out coax tails and just stubbed them below TW's box...

:eek::eek::eek:

If that were my building...I'd be PISSED OFF...:mad:

It is clear CB does not know how to wire a MDU...I think it is hilarious they brought out coax tails and just stubbed them below TW's box...

How to you propose they wire a buidling then? String new coax to each unit? I believe the fault lies with TW as they cut tails to reach only thier equipment.

Well...Considering that TW wired the building for their services they did nothing wrong...CB is riding on TW's coat tails...

All right last week I posted soliciting advice on how to improve OTA reception for my Dish VIP 722. Thanks for the advice, here is what I've done.

With the Christmas tree packed away, I could finally place my RS-1892 UFO antenna in my front window. As I reported I had tried several indoor antennae and couldn't find anything that worked better than the cheapest RCA dipole and loop antenna.

So today I went through my strongest local channels and recorded the approx signal strenght as reported by my Dish VIP 722.

Channel______Rabbit Ears_____UFO
5.1_____________72-78______87-88
9.1__________unlocked-68____67-69
12.1____________89-90_______73-76
14.2_____________100_________91
19.1____________97-98_______72-73
43.1____________72-73_______72-74
48.1____________98-99_______75-76
54.1____________64-65_______64-65
64.1____________74-75________100

Now a few comments on my methodology. The number - number represents 5 to 10 seconds of watching the meter raise and fall. And I recorded the high and low values.

The UFO, had a directional UHF antenna that can be set to 12 different settings and has a pre amp with 3 settings. Since channel 54 is the station that my wife direly wants and is the hardest of the locals to lock onto. I tuned in 54 and the found the best setting I could.

The numbers don't seem to measure what I witnessed this evening. After setting up the UFO, I saw no more signal loss. We watched 54 for an hour and not once did the image break up. Just prior to the change I was watching channel 9. I'd lose signal every minute. Afterward (admittedly with only about 10 minutes watching) I did not lose my lock once.

I'm going to monitor the UFO for the next couple of days. But I'm actually pretty optimistic even though the numbers don't seem to prove it. It will be interesting to see how the weather affects these week signals. Why would this be so dramatic an improvement, yet the numbers don't bare that out?? I'm going to take a guess myself. Perhaps the directional nature of the antenna means that it is picking up less multipath. And to be fair, the UFO is on the other side of the room from my TV. My cheap rabbit ears have to literally sit on top of the TV.

A further note, my goal is to find a single setting that handles all since I'm using a DVR and often wont be there to tweak the antenna. That's why I used 54 as my base channel for settings.

Bear

The most common mistake that people make is presuming that if the signal strength is good then that is all that matters...This isn't the case...You can have what is thought to be poor signal strength numbers but have excellent quality of the signal itself...That is most likely what you are experiencing...

I forget...Are you in a house or an apartment/townhouse/condo...An attic mount antenna will most likely give you the best option...Also I noticed you have not gotten any Dayton stations...A DIY 4 bay antenna mounted in your attic along with a low noise preamp should really add to your performance and you can forget about those rabbit ears and UFO high noise amplified antenna's...I am available to get you going so if you would be interested just PM me...

I forget...Are you in a house or an apartment/townhouse/condo...An attic mount antenna will most likely give you the best option...Also I noticed you have not gotten any Dayton stations...A DIY 4 bay antenna mounted in your attic along with a low noise preamp should really add to your performance and you can forget about those rabbit ears and UFO high noise amplified antenna's...I am available to get you going so if you would be interested just PM me...

I'm in a ranch house in Blue Ash. If these signals hold, then I'll consider this good enough. I did not list Dayton stations as I'm not really interested in them. My earnest hope is that 'SOON' Dish will pick up the remaining Cincinnati stations in HD. Currently Dish only has 3. And (long long LONG story short) this Sunday I'm getting a second dish installed that will get me those 3 stations. I cannot grasp why PBS is not available yet, but I'm not asking. I'm sure this has been hashed over before elsewhere on the forum.

I really appreciate your offer. But I haven't any excuse. I'm an electrician by trade. It's my own laziness that keeps me from doing an attic mount or roof for that matter. Not a lack of skill or tools. And maybe I will some day. But all I really want right now is to see my local stations in HD along with all of the other coolness in HD I already get from Dish.

Thanks,

Bear

With you being in Blue Ash you should just build a 4 bay antenna and stick it behind your TV...You will be amazed at how well it will perform over what you have currently and since you are not concerned with Dayton then you won't need a pre amp...I get 32 channels OTA currently and I block the ch43 channels because it is programing that I am not interested in...So actually I get 38 channels...I don't get Daytons CW ch 26...no biggie but I still want it...

Don't forget that Feb 17 ch 12 goes to VHF so you will need to re-program your tuner...

Here are the simple instructions to build your own 4 bay...Lazy or not it only takes 30 minutes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw

I built mine using #6 copper used to ground CATV strand on telephone poles...I'm sure you have access to something similar...

With you being in Blue Ash you should just build a 4 bay antenna and stick it behind your TV...You will be amazed at how well it will perform over what you have

I think I will give it a try. Does it pull in hi vhf (ie 9 and eventually 12) very well?

Oh, and I guess I don't have my problem licked yet either, I lost signal on 9 during the late news briefly. Much better than it was before though. And I watched the show on 54 about Atlantic Records, good stuff, good music. And I am very happy to report that I had no signal loss at all.

Bear

Were there any blunders this time around?

BTW: Hawai'i shut down their full-power analog stations (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090115/BREAKING01/90115056) today. :D

Directv's 661-1 (Fox Sports Cincy) has an actual BlueJackets hockey game on in HD the other night (Mon/Tues).

Hopefully this is the start of more HD on 661-1.

5.1 and 5.2 WLWT is out for maintenance work. Called the GM and he told me it should be back up sometime this afternoon.

Helluva time for maintenance...I wondered why it was out...Thanks rob...

thank goodness for wdtn. glad to know this info.

At least they did not pick next Tuesday for the maintenance work. LOL

I think I will give it a try. Does it pull in hi vhf (ie 9 and eventually 12) very well?

Oh, and I guess I don't have my problem licked yet either, I lost signal on 9 during the late news briefly. Much better than it was before though. And I watched the show on 54 about Atlantic Records, good stuff, good music. And I am very happy to report that I had no signal loss at all.

Bear

Bear - don't know if you saw my response to you a page or two back - I'm near you in Evendale - I have one of those "youtube" antennas (a "DB4", though with 10-ga copper rather than coat hangers) behind my TV (first floor of a 2-story house, leaning against a wall that has piping and wiring in it, a "bad" location!) that I use as "backup" for my HTPC system. Despite the location, it gets all of the Cincinnati stations just fine, as splicer mentioned, plus Fox and NBC from Dayton. My HTPC setup (which I use 99.9% of the time) has one of these DIY'ers in the attic, and it gets everything flawlessly (except that darn Dayton CW 26, but I am over it).

That antenna is supposed to be only UHF, but it gets me VHF (WCPO 10) just fine. I assume it's because of my relative closeness to the signal (we're, what, 12-14 miles away?), that the VHF just sorta "powers through". I am banking (praying?) that the same will be true of WKRC in a month.

Also note that if you decide to build one and put it in the attic, it will likely get Dayton stations anyway, whether you care or not. This gives you extra NFL games when there is the "Bengals blackout", and also sometimes gives you different NCAA football and basketball games. Not to mention the backup of having another major network choice when a local event (ie, weather or a "breaking news" story) interrupts a show.

"This" is now on WXIX-DT 19.2 ...

Finally real content on 19.2. No more tube crape.

I like "This"...Watch it all the time on 45-2...I still would rather have "The Tube" (the channel not the barker) on 19-2...

pjpjpjpj,

Thanks for the reply. I must have missed your first response as I was still confused on the merits of the DIY antenna for VHF. I continue to have minor dropped signal warnings when using my UFO. So I've decided to return it to the Shack. And I will build me a DB4 with 10-ga copper. I might have enough of that squirled away. Although I'm not sure if I have 10 or 12 until I check.

I am currently waiting for a Dish service call. Their supposed to realign my dish to give me a stronger signal on 129. Oh, and Sunday they're coming again to give me a wing dish so I can get a few locals over satellite in HD.

Regardless of whether they get me the locals even if Dish finally added all of them, I still want to proceed with my own OTA solution. It just makes sense.

Thanks,

Bear

I have that ufo one I never get drop outs from 9 did you make sure the antennas the dipole are set correctly I had to fine tune them to not get drop outs. I had to make the left one shorter then the right one and then play with the direction of it.

did they say when when channel 5 is supposed to have 5.1 and 5.2 working again?

About 5.1 & 5.2 being out. http://www.wlwt.com/news/18495310/detail.html

I have that ufo one I never get drop outs from 9 did you make sure the antennas the dipole are set correctly I had to fine tune them to not get drop outs. I had to make the left one shorter then the right one and then play with the direction of it.

hmmm. No I did not think of changing the length of the dipoles. I will play with it some more. I did try different directions and placement. Although when I was doing this, I was mostly focused on getting 54.2 in solid. There's a show on there that the wife really wants and it's unavailable on the other pbs stations or anywhere on Dish. I do seem to have successfully grabbed that station. Only to find later that 9 has very slight dropping issues. I watched Lost the other night. And the drops were so few and so short that I didn't really miss anything.

Of course it's still annoying though.


Bear

Just a quick update. I have not had a chance to readjust my UFO antenna. A Dish service guy just left and he seems to have fixed my problems with 129. When he arrived my signal strength was under 30 for 129. He realigned my dish and now the signal strength is in the mid 50's.

He claimed that the previous installer had aligned the dish only for 110 and 119.

Bear

5.1 & 5.2 is back

WLWT-DT back on air...

THIS-TV on 19.2?!?! This is a nice surprise! :)

"This TV" - "Strong on movies & Kids shows".

http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=87469

Not to take away from 'This TV'...I for one would LOVE to see 'Retro TV' come to town...

Is 19-2 going to be "ThisTV" 24/7? Because 45-2 is usually "MyTV" and only sometimes "ThisTV", right? (or has 45-2 switched to all "This"?)

Is 19-2 going to be "ThisTV" 24/7? Because 45-2 is usually "MyTV" and only sometimes "ThisTV", right? (or has 45-2 switched to all "This"?)
This TV is a 24/7 network designed for digital subchannels. MyNetwork TV is a regular broadcast network and only schedules during certain time slots (mostly prime time). I believe 45-2 airs MNTV when it is available and uses This TV to fill the other hours on its schedule. Right now it appears that 19-2 will be This TV 24/7.

Outside of Primetime/MyN TV programming, WRGT-DT 45.2 Currently has about 1/2 This TV programming and about 1/2 Other programming ... other programming currently being Repeats of WRGT Local news such as 10pm WRGT news at 12AM, syndicated programming such as Martha Stewart show and of course infomercials ....

I'm in Loveland and trying to decide on one of the 3 antenna's

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=TD-DB2
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=TD-DB4
or
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=C2

Does the C2 pull in a better picture than the DB2?

Currently, I am using the:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062081

And it works pretty good, but if I adjust it for Channel 9 (ABC), I get 9 and 5 (NBC) in great but CBS (12) and Fox (19) not as good.

I want to mount the DB2, DB4, or C2 on my roof. Just not sure if I need as large an antenna as the DB4.

Thanks.

Jim

Being as close as you are I would suggest something like this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=PR7005&xzoom=Large

Being as close as you are I would suggest something like this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=PR7005&xzoom=Large

Thanks but I'm trying to keep the antenna somewhat aesthetically pleasing.

In that case go with the DB4...

In that case go with the DB4...

Thanks. That's what I was leaning towards. I ordered it and will post my results on the forum when I get the antenna dialed in.

Jim

Hey Guys. I have friends trying to get CBS HD on 12.1 with a pair of rabbit ears, or something close to that. They say they're not getting anything. Should they be able to?

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, forgot to mention. They're in Clifton.

Hey Guys. I have friends trying to get CBS HD on 12.1 with a pair of rabbit ears, or something close to that. They say they're not getting anything. Should they be able to?

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, forgot to mention. They're in Clifton.
If they're in Clifton, they should be able to get 12.1 with a paperclip in the tuner. :)

Seriously though... what is their setup? First off, do they have an ATSC tuner? HDTV with the rabbit ears plugged right in? Something between (a VCR or something)? Did they have something else plugged in (like cable TV) and switch to the antenna and forget to do a new channel scan or something? And what DO they get? Static? Blank screen?

(sorry for the remedial questions... with you being a new poster, we have to ask these things) :D

Even in a basement, they ought to be getting something from Clifton.

Hey Guys. I have friends trying to get CBS HD on 12.1 with a pair of rabbit ears, or something close to that. They say they're not getting anything. Should they be able to?

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, forgot to mention. They're in Clifton.

Rabbit Ears are for VHF, 12.1 is currently on UHF, until Feb. 17th.

I don't take offense. I know how it is :)

I assumed they would be easily able to get it, too. The problem is, I'm not there. I'm only talking to them over the phone. I also don't have much experience with tuners. I have an older HD monitor that doesn't have a tuner. Which number to they have to tune to? 12-1 or 31?

Rabbit Ears are for VHF, 12.1 is currently on UHF, until Feb. 17th.

Forgive my ignorance. What is the real-world difference nowadays between UHF and VHF? Is there a different connector to the TV you need for UHF as opposed to VHF?

They would need to tune to 31. The tuner should then automatically "Re-Map" the received signal to 12-1.
The connector is not different, but the antenna is. Most UHF antennas are "loop" or "bow tie" in shape.

I assumed they would be easily able to get it, too. The problem is, I'm not there. I'm only talking to them over the phone.

Welcome to the club! :) The true challenge usually involves communication, not with the technology.

One thing I thought of is that if they're using an indoor antenna and it has amplification, they may be overamplifying the signal for WKRC. For Clifton, you should be able to get all of the local stations with an unamplified indoor antenna quite easily. So amplification should be turned down very low or turned off completely. How do the analog stations at their location look?

Forgive my ignorance. What is the real-world difference nowadays between UHF and VHF? Is there a different connector to the TV you need for UHF as opposed to VHF?

Same difference as analog...VHF= Very High Frequency and UHF=Ultra High Frequency...Older TV's used different connection points but now-a-days a 75ohm single connection is what is used...

Rare but SOME sets have a seperate 75ohm input for analog and digital...

Forgive my ignorance. What is the real-world difference nowadays between UHF and VHF?

Another difference between VHF and UHF for digital TV is that only a small handful of TV markets will have at least one station operating in the low-VHF range (channels 2-6 or 54 MHz-88 MHz). There have been problems with people receiving DTV broadcasts on these frequencies due to electrical interference and impulse noise. Fortunately Cincinnati isn't one of those markets, but will have two (after the conversion) stations broadcasting on high-VHF (channels 7-13 or 174 MHz-216 MHz). So it's important to have an antenna that can pick up high-VHF and UHF frequencies.

Side note: the UHF channels will go from 14-51 (470 MHz-698 MHz) after the conversion. Frequencies covered by channels 52-69 (698 MHz-806 MHz) will be reassigned Department of Homeland Security and to private business use. However, the jury is still out on whether or not UHF antennas need to still cover 14-69 or we can optimize for 14-51.

Ch's 14-2 thru 14-6 have had "No Program Information" or on screen guide for a few days now.

Ch's 14-2 thru 14-6 have had "No Program Information" or on screen guide for a few days now.

Ch 16-2 on up either...

Don't expect to see Retro Tv in Cincy antime soon. RTN was up on Galaxy 10R until early January. There were financial issues and several of the stations in the country aren't currently showing RTN. They have one channel on Galaxy 10R and I'm not sure it's truely RTN. Also think there may be an east-west feed on 83W. Not much OTA. It was great while it lasted.

Before we get too bogged down in the VHF/UHF discussion while trying to help bobbd, I think we need more info about the people with the issue. Bobbd said HE has an old HDTV monitor with a separate tuner, but not what THEY (the people in question) have. Bobbd, do they have an HDTV (as in, a fairly current one)? I mean, there are people out there - LOTS of people - who think that this new converter box (and the ability to get digital programming) will give their old 4:3 tube TV the ability to watch HDTV.

If they have a fairly new TV and are just plugging the antenna into the back of it, then they will not tune to 31, they will tune to 12.1, and the TV will know what to do (it will know that the signal for 12.1 comes in at 31 and will remap it for them). But most importantly (as I mentioned in my first post above), have they done a channel scan with "digital" activated? My Sony HDTV (and I would imagine most brands these days), when I first set it up, walked me through a menu where I had to choose "scan for digital", "scan for analog", or "scan for digital and analog". If they have only ever been watching analog TV, the problem could be as simple as going back to the TV setup screen and choosing "digital".

I think we need more info about the tech "level" of the users here.

As for the VHF/UHF thing.... I have a DIY antenna that is, by all descriptions, UHF-only. However, I am about 14-15 miles from the Cincinnati antennas, and I get the VHF stations perfectly with this same antenna. I've been told that the only explanation is that, "with how close you are, VHF must just 'force it's way through'." So if these people are in Clifton, as I said above, I would think they should be able to get the local channels "with a paperclip". But maybe not.

I did think of the overamplification thing that Thora mentioned. Bobbd, can you find out if the antenna they are using has a wall plug (for power)? If so, they ought to try something else.

Don't expect to see Retro Tv in Cincy antime soon. RTN was up on Galaxy 10R until early January. There were financial issues and several of the stations in the country aren't currently showing RTN. They have one channel on Galaxy 10R and I'm not sure it's truely RTN. Also think there may be an east-west feed on 83W. Not much OTA. It was great while it lasted.

I'm told that the local feeds have been slowly returning to the air.

- Trip

If Retro TV's feeds are back up, good luck figuring that out from their web site. Retrotelevision.net is down. The most recently cached version of the page on Google is from January 3. Don't know if this is really part of the story or not...just doesn't seem promising.

Kevin

Webiste has changed its now http://www.myretrotv.com/

I'm seeing something on Galaxy 18/10R called RTN turnaround only1 station, but nothing else I can attribute as coming from them. Some of the original channels were owned by Equity who sold them to Luken. Equity had filed bankruptcy and supposedly several of Equity's stations aren't ready for the digital switch! If not extension is granted guess they will go dark. So it's kind of a mess. I think a lot of FTA satellite folks are waiting until February to see what happens. :)

I heard the local RTN affils have been coming back on C-band in DVB-S2.

- Trip

Hi all! I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I live in Cincinnati and have Basic Cable from Time Warner (Channels 1 - 25). I'm planning on upgrading my HTPC to HD with an HDHomeRun.

As I understand, I should be able to receive the locals in Clear QAM through Basic Cable (or OTA). But, what about the other channels that I get in basic (E!, HSN, etc) - that are not locals and not broadcasted in HD - will I still get them as well, or will I lose them?

Also, what is the consensus around having both TW Basic Cable and Road Runner - does this allow Clear QAM or block it? I've seen several postings and am still slightly confused :-)

Thanks
Chris

Welcome, CoolSwoosh.

QAM on an HDHR only gives you channels that are unencrypted. So you will not get other "basic" cable channels, for the most part. I believe Cincy TW gives you the locals and some subchannels, and then you will likely get some cable-access channels and such. You can check what "should" be available here:
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels
(scroll down until the leftmost column says "qam256")

If your HTPC has an analog card in it, you could split your cable, run two connections to the HDHR inputs, and another to your analog card, and then you would have two tuners getting the QAM locals and the other would still get your "basic" analog channels (the ones you mentioned).


Hi all! I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I live in Cincinnati and have Basic Cable from Time Warner (Channels 1 - 25). I'm planning on upgrading my HTPC to HD with an HDHomeRun.

As I understand, I should be able to receive the locals in Clear QAM through Basic Cable (or OTA). But, what about the other channels that I get in basic (E!, HSN, etc) - that are not locals and not broadcasted in HD - will I still get them as well, or will I lose them?

Also, what is the consensus around having both TW Basic Cable and Road Runner - does this allow Clear QAM or block it? I've seen several postings and am still slightly confused :-)

Thanks
Chris

pjpjpjpj - Thanks for your quick reply!

RTN was up on Galaxy 10R until early January.
There was a falling out between Luken Communications and Equity Media Holdings earlier this month. Luken had been paying Equity to use their Little Rock, AR satellite facilities and was forced to switch the national RTN feed to their still under construction satellite hub at Luken's headquarters in Chattanooga, TN.

why is channel 5.1 at 30 percent today? its usually in the 50s from where i am. i live near camden ohio.

Interesting - I saw a scroll on Ch12 this morning that subscribers to KAS Cable and Novner Communications would lose Channel 12 at the end of January. Reading the announcement on the WKRC website (http://www.local12.com/content/cable_problems/default.aspx), they have not renewed their retransmission contracts.

Personally, I have never heard of either KAS Cable or Novner Communications. where are they (what area do they serve)?

pjpjpjpj - Thanks for your quick reply!

No problem - one other thought occurred to me - does your HTPC have the "beef" to handle HD? It's quite a jump from regular SD programming. Seems like most recommendations I have seen are to have at least a dual core, 3Ghz or higher processor, at least 1 Gb RAM (if not more), and a high-end graphics card with a lot of dedicated video RAM. The fact that you are an HTPC'er probably indicates you are on top of this, but I thought I should bring it up just in case. :D

Novner is a hack cable company that serves (or did serve) apartments. I used to live at waterford place in loveland (12+ years ago when the complex was new) and they were the cable company. They were horrid!

Interesting - I saw a scroll on Ch12 this morning that subscribers to KAS Cable and Novner Communications would lose Channel 12 at the end of January. Reading the announcement on the WKRC website (http://www.local12.com/content/cable_problems/default.aspx), they have not renewed their retransmission contracts.

Personally, I have never heard of either KAS Cable or Novner Communications. where are they (what area do they serve)?

I was running the Apex DT502 and the Radio Shack 15-1868 star trek antenna and getting so-so results.
altthough I have ordered a DB4 antenna, I received my Tivo HD yesterday and after plugging it in, the same Radio shack antenna coupled with the Tivo HD produced 38 channels, with amazing clarity. With the Apex, I got 18 -20 channels, with some excellent and some with pixalation issues.

I am amazed that there is such a difference in Digital tuner quality.

If they have a fairly new TV and are just plugging the antenna into the back of it, then they will not tune to 31, they will tune to 12.1, and the TV will know what to do (it will know that the signal for 12.1 comes in at 31 and will remap it for them).

The virtual channel information comes from each individual station (specifically from PSIP VCT - virtual channel table).

The TV will not "know what to do" when a user selects a virtual channel number until a sufficent signal is achieved (from each station, individually).

In many cases when autoscans don't find all the receivable local channels, users will need a way to manually "tune to" or "scan in" certian signals by the RF channel # (in this case 31), with some sort of signal quality reading present on screen so that they can adjust antenna for best results, and so the VCT info can be decoded and stored so that from then on, in this case they can then select 12.1 or 12.2 for WKRC ... Different makes/models of receivers handle this issue differently, and unfortunetly some do not handle it properly .... a "auto channel scan" or additional, subsequent "add digital channel scan" (with antenna positioned or aimed differently) often isn't enough, especially when one isn't using a directional receive antenna ...

No problem - one other thought occurred to me - does your HTPC have the "beef" to handle HD? It's quite a jump from regular SD programming. Seems like most recommendations I have seen are to have at least a dual core, 3Ghz or higher processor, at least 1 Gb RAM (if not more), and a high-end graphics card with a lot of dedicated video RAM. The fact that you are an HTPC'er probably indicates you are on top of this, but I thought I should bring it up just in case. :D

pjpjpjpj - Great question. I'm actually going to transform my current server to my new HTPC. The specs on that are:

Motherboard - ECS KN1 Extreme 939 (PCI Express x16 1.0)
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 1.8GHz - Single Core
Ram - Currently 1GB, can easily pop in another 1GB if needed
Video - Plan to purchase Radeon 4850, 512MB
Tuner - Plan to purchase HDHomeRun

You bring up a good point about the dual core processor. I'm wondering if what I have will be a limitation. I think what I can do is test first using current specs, and if it doesn't work, I can upgrade or swap the CPU with my current PC which is AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+ Windsor 2.0GHz Dual-Core.

Also wondering if my PCI Express x16 1.0 will be a limitation since most of the new cards are 2.0. However, I did read a few articles which stated that most of the video cards can barely max out 1.0, let alone utilize the bandwidth in 2.0.

Thoughts?

Thanks again!
CoolSwoosh

Thoughts?


FWIW, I'm using ATI Radeon X1600(using PCIe X16) here (DVI to HDMI to HDTV), with AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ CPU (dual core), 2GB RAM. Decoding HD MPEG2 1920x1080i with MPEG2 decoder using DXVA is about 9%~11% max CPU utilization- Software only HD MPEG2 decoding, about (roughly) 30% max CPU useage.

In other words, I'd think you'd be fine for MPEG2 Decoding, as well as for capturing anything(just writing the streams as broadcast to disk which is usually how these "HDTV" capture cards work) ....

In fact, I'll often watch MPEG2 HD while encoding material with MPEG4/AVC (usually x.264) or VC1, although that probably would not work out so well on a single core machine ... I also decode VC-1/WMV HD(with hardware acceleration) no problem, or MPEG4(AVC) HD (H.264/X.264 - software only - My video card doesn't do DXVA for MPEG4/AVC) with this machine, but for AVC decoding CPU utilization for 1920x1080 material is getting up there, depending upon how the material is encoded .. Encoding with CABAC for instance increases CPU utilization on playback signifcantly, as do some other AVC encoding "options" which improve encoding efficiency but require more horsepower for decoding ...

Oh, on the PCI Express 1.0 vs 2.0 thing ... x16 (1.0) should give us a 2.5Gb/s Transfer rate for each lane(in each direction), about 40Gb/s total .... Uncompressed 1920x1080 HD is about 1.5Gb/s .....

doesn't the hd homerun do the processing for you on ota broadcasts? I have the fusion 5 - it decodes and hardware accelerates the ota and qam so the cpu utilization is very low. even on the old athlon 64 3000 (single core) the cpu on ota hdtv never got above 10%.

Also in my htpc I now run a core 2 duo 8400 and even software decoded 1080p material barley gets over 50% cpu. Heck - even the hd killer sample (the birds from the planet earth series) only took it to 60%

What sort of Hardware acceleration, decoding or processing would that do? For the capture with these things(I'm using Hauppauge WinTV HVR1600 for that BTW - PCI), all we're doing is writing the streams *as broadcast* to disk ... In some cases the entire transport stream, in some cases just the MPEG2 video/AC-3 audio streams for the program("subchannel") of interest, using MPEG2 container formats such as DVR-ms (such as is used by XP/Vista MCE) or other (such as *.mpg) ...

It's during decoding(including "live TV" viewing of course)/playback where you might want to use hardware acceleration capabilities of your video card's GPU (for Windoze, Probably using DirectX/DXVA) ....

And, Yeah, the CPU utilization jimp2244 reported is right along the lines of what I'd expect for that hardware(and right along the lines of the info in my last post I think), assuming the 1080p software decode example involved material encoded with AVC or VC-1 ...

I see a WH Weasel on WKRC :) ...

... and what, no demonstration of how to work on rooftop antennas in winter while managing to keep your fingers working and w/o freezing your ...... off ???

Oh, as long as I'm posting this just noticed EIT's currently MIA from WKRC ....

I see a WH Weasel on WKRC :)

They did a good job. It's very current. Howard Ain mentioned the waiting list for converter box coupons.

Also, I think they mentioned rescanning five or six times. I wonder why... ;)

I see a WH Weasel on WKRC :) ...

Oh, as long as I'm posting this just noticed EIT's currently MIA from WKRC ....

Thanks, Jeff.
We had a Flexicoder 'crash' earlier and the PSIP computer wasn't talking to it.
Should be OK now.

Agreeing with Nitewatchman above, I don't think any encoding occurs in the HDHomerun. My impression was that it just took the data stream and threw it to the PC hard drive "as is".

I use HDHomeruns, and SageTV with the HD Extenders. The Extenders do all the encoding work. My Server is old and slow (when I accidentally tried to tune HD on it, it crashed spectacularly). But it works flawlessly for my setup, because all it's doing is moving data around - from HDHR to hard drive to Extender. The Extender does all the "work".

Should be OK now.

Yep, thanks, checked it at 11pm last night and EIT/Program info was back up ..

The Extenders do all the encoding work.


Decoding, not Encoding ...

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/01/senate_agrees_to_delay_digital.php

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/01/senate_agrees_to_delay_digital.php

This is going to be a nightmare...The switch needs to occur on the planned date...Totally ridiculous to change the date...Actually idiotic is a more fitting word...

This is going to be a nightmare...The switch needs to occur on the planned date...Totally ridiculous to change the date...Actually idiotic is a more fitting word...
Could not agree more. How many hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent in advertising, and are just being thrown away?

I was thinking of locking out channels 25-3 & 25-4 on my set. Now I notice that 25-4 seems to be showing a really old movie.

I saw a brief ID on 25-4 for "White Springs TV"

http://www.whitesprings.tv/

Not many commercials, & a lot of movies.

Found out about 25.4 also

I just noticed 25.4.

Well, I got the DB4 antenna yesterday. I mounted it today, pointed it at 230deg per my compass (kudos to antennaweb.org for the coordinates), cabled it to my Tivo HD box and did a rescan. I picked up 45 channels - and all but a couple come in crystal clear.

Time will tell if I have any atmospherical issues but initial viewings are great. Thanks for the advice on this forum.

I'm in Loveland, OH with major cross streets Montgomery and Fields Ertel to give an idea of my location.

How well does WCPO (9) come in???

How well does WCPO (9) come in???

the primary channels - NBC (5.1, 5.2), ABC (9.1, 9.2), CBS (12.1, 12.2), Fox (19.2, 19.2), PBS (14.2-.6), KCET (I forget their channel range) all come in crystal clear. My wife says they look better than the digital cable we got from TWC.

We also get 38, 48.1-.2, 54.1-.3, 64.1. and 25.1-.4 crystal clear.

Reception is much improved with the DB4 as compared with just a simple rabbit-ear indoor antenna.

What were the couple that you do not get crystal clear???

So is FSN-Ohio-Cincinnati ever going to show a nationally broadcast FSN-HD game in HD? Two ACC Sunday night hoops games were on tonight in HD. No Blue Jackets or Cavs to compete with. Just about every other FSN has it in HD, except FSN Ohio and FSN-Ohio-Cincinnati.

the primary channels - NBC (5.1, 5.2), ABC (9.1, 9.2), CBS (12.1, 12.2), Fox (19.2, 19.2), PBS (14.2-.6), KCET (I forget their channel range) all come in crystal clear. My wife says they look better than the digital cable we got from TWC.

We also get 38, 48.1-.2, 54.1-.3, 64.1. and 25.1-.4 crystal clear.

Reception is much improved with the DB4 as compared with just a simple rabbit-ear indoor antenna.

What were the couple that you do not get crystal clear???

To second Splicer... unless you want Dayton (in which case you have the wrong antenna... or have it aimed the wrong direction :D ), it sounds like you are getting everything. In fact, you mentioned that you get KET (54.x) which would most likely be the toughest of the "Cincinnati" stations for you, given your location.

I would be curious to see, if you took off the screen reflector on the back of your antenna, how many Dayton stations you would pick up from the back side. I had an unreflected DB4-type (homemade, just the "whiskers", no screen) in my attic, about 3 miles south of you, and I still was able to get three or four Dayton stations respectably. But again, I believe you only wanted Cincinnati anyway, and of course, I wouldn't expect you to climb up outside in the snow. :eek:

So is FSN-Ohio-Cincinnati ever going to show a nationally broadcast FSN-HD game in HD? Two ACC Sunday night hoops games were on tonight in HD. No Blue Jackets or Cavs to compete with. Just about every other FSN has it in HD, except FSN Ohio and FSN-Ohio-Cincinnati.

Agreed...this is really annoying. I cannot watch these games in SD.

To second Splicer... unless you want Dayton (in which case you have the wrong antenna... or have it aimed the wrong direction :D ), it sounds like you are getting everything. In fact, you mentioned that you get KET (54.x) which would most likely be the toughest of the "Cincinnati" stations for you, given your location.

I would be curious to see, if you took off the screen reflector on the back of your antenna, how many Dayton stations you would pick up from the back side. I had an unreflected DB4-type (homemade, just the "whiskers", no screen) in my attic, about 3 miles south of you, and I still was able to get three or four Dayton stations respectably. But again, I believe you only wanted Cincinnati anyway, and of course, I wouldn't expect you to climb up outside in the snow. :eek:

pjpjpjpj, you are correct. I am not concerned with Dayton channels but it is interesting to hear that removing the screen reflector could allow me to pick up stations on the other 180deg spectrum. According to antennaweb.org, I am receiving everything that I would be expected to receive. I am more than pleased with the reception I am receiving.

I tested my reception with a homemade coathanger antenna similar to what you have in your attic but wanted an exterior antenna to provide the absolute best signal strength for my wife. The DB4 is inexpensive enough (and its priced a couple of bucks less than the DB2!)

I tested my reception with a homemade coathanger antenna similar to what you have in your attic but wanted an exterior antenna to provide the absolute best signal strength for my wife. The DB4 is inexpensive enough (and its priced a couple of bucks less than the DB2!)
My "coathanger" antenna (actually, I used 10ga copper, but anyway) was really just a DB4 like you have, but without the reflector screen. If you took the screen off yours, you would have exactly what I had.

Not trying to make you feel guilty, but if you used a piece of that "Trex" decking wood (weatherproof), or pressure-treated lumber, and coated screws and hardware... you could put the DIY model outside too... for a lot cheaper. :)

But hey, you got one, it works perfectly for what you need, 'nuff said. Don't overthink success, right? :)

BTW, you do have it properly grounded, right?

25.4 back to the Skyline Cam today.

Also getting something comming in on 57 analog very faint and scrolls right to left not sure what it is. Getting something on 51 also. Too faint to tell what it is.

He just wanted something with better asthetics and you have to admit the DB4 looks better than a DIY DB4...I have a DIY DB4 (no refelecter) using #6 solid copper and it performs beyond my expectations...I have it mounted on my roof...Unfortunately VHF is not consistent enough by itself so I have a seperate VHF antenna also...I get every channel available between Cinci & Dayton with the exception of Daytons CW CH26...I believe it is something like 43 or 45 channels...So he is getting Dayton already according to the number of channels he said he scanned in...

Not a good picture but good enough...

I know the coax needs to be attached to the mast...U ran out of zip ty's...

This is the VHF antenna I bought (the price has gone up $5 since I bought it about 2 months ago):

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

He just wanted something with better asthetics and you have to admit the DB4 looks better than a DIY DB4...
Well, yeah. :D

Splicer, where are you located? As I have posted before, my DIY UHF antennas still seem to pull in VHF too.... I've been told it's because I'm so close (~14 miles).

Yes...You are MUCH closer than I am...I am about 35 miles from the Cinci & Dayton towers...I am half way inbetween Cinci & Dayton...

As is I live in a single story with many obstacles in the way (trees/hills etc...) & I only have a 10' mast...As such I needed to add a pre-amp to the setup to give me the best most stable signal strength:

http://www.consumerdepot.com/products.asp?id=1512505

I can get WCPO-DT with the DIY DB4 but there are some issues with the most important being that reception is not consistent at all...I might have a great signal @ 10AM and by 5PM it won't even register...The second most important thing is that in order to get WCPO-DT I have to have the DB4 pointed in such a way that I don't get ANY Dayton stations and not all Cinci stations either...The $25 I spent for the VHF antenna shipped along with the VUSJ to connect the 2 antenna's...was/is in my opinion...a great investment since channel 12 will also be going to VHF and during their test I didn't get squat...So this way I get the best of both worlds...

Now when the weather gets better I will go back up and swap the DB4 with the VHF and have the VHF lower and the DB4 up high because I have a feeling that come spring/summer when the leaves are back on the trees...UHF reception will be affected...And since VHF goes thru objects better than UHF...well it's self explanitory...;)

My "coathanger" antenna (actually, I used 10ga copper, but anyway) was really just a DB4 like you have, but without the reflector screen. If you took the screen off yours, you would have exactly what I had.

Not trying to make you feel guilty, but if you used a piece of that "Trex" decking wood (weatherproof), or pressure-treated lumber, and coated screws and hardware... you could put the DIY model outside too... for a lot cheaper. :)

But hey, you got one, it works perfectly for what you need, 'nuff said. Don't overthink success, right? :)

BTW, you do have it properly grounded, right?

I paid approx $36 including shipping for my DB4. I considered putting my DIY DB4 in my attic but I don't think it would withstand the outdoor elements - snow, winds, thunderstorms. .it would cost about $10 to build a DIY - to me, the $26 gives me a nice antenna that I don't have to worry about.

I have a 5' mast on mine, it clears the top of the chimney by about 2'. Grounded? I guess I would need to run a ground wire from the mast/antenna to the ground? Maybe just attach it to my raingutter, since it also touches the ground?

I have very large trees in the front and back, with branches overlooking my roofline. I figure if lightning strikes, it will hit my trees first. But the ground is a good idea.

white springs is back on 25.4

Grounded? I guess I would need to run a ground wire from the mast/antenna to the ground? Maybe just attach it to my raingutter, since it also touches the ground?

I have very large trees in the front and back, with branches overlooking my roofline. I figure if lightning strikes, it will hit my trees first. But the ground is a good idea.

It's not just a good idea, it's code. I can't tell you where to find the code (maybe the NEC, National Electric Code?), or what it requires, but I know that an outdoor antenna must be grounded. Hate to break that to you, in light of the snow on your house right now.... :eek:

The ONLY reason to be concerned at this moment is if he were to be on the receiving end of a lightning strike...which while not impossible this time of the year is in fact highly unprobable...in which case any insurance coverage would be denied if the antenna is not up to code...Personally I think he has time to ground the antenna before the spring storms start rolling in...;)

All that needs to be done to properly ground the antenna is to place a ground block as close as is reasonable to the entrance point on the home and use an 8' ground rod...NEC code also specifies that the new ground rod needs to be bonded with your power ground...If you can just ground directly to the existing power ground rod...

I always wondered if satellite dishes needed to be grounded. I assume they fall under the same code as antennas?

I always wondered if satellite dishes needed to be grounded. I assume they fall under the same code as antennas?

You betcha...

All that needs to be done to properly ground the antenna is to place a ground block as close as is reasonable to the entrance point on the home and use an 8' ground rod...NEC code also specifies that the new ground rod needs to be bonded with your power ground...If you can just ground directly to the existing power ground rod...

I found this web link discussing antenna groundings.

http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/1171010.html

The NEC requires that the antenna mast and mount be grounded directly. No splices or connections are allowed in the ground wire between the mast and the ground rod. First, attach one end of a No. 8 or No. 10 copper or aluminum ground wire to the TV antenna mast. One of the bolts on the mount can be used as a fastening point. Masts that are painted or coated just have their coating scraped off around the area where they contact the mount. This will ensure an electrical connection between the mast and the mount. It is vital to get a good, solid connection. (Once the mast is attached to the mount, any scraped off portion that is exposed should be recoated with paint or other sealant.) Next, run the ground wire to ground as directly as possible. Standard wire staples can be used to secure the ground wire against the side of the house. Avoid making 90° or sharper turns with the ground wire. A lightning charge has difficulty making such a turn and therefore may discharge into the house. Make ground wire bends as smooth and as gradual as possible. The ground wire must be connected to a ground rod. Water pipes or plumbing fixtures are not acceptable. A good copper-coated steel ground rod driven at least 3 feet into the ground is required. Special clamps that provide a solid connection between the ground wire and ground rod should be used.

Can I assume my chimney is grounded? and if so, can I run a ground wire from the antenna to the chimney flashing?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Just as I said...Ground to your existing POWER ground rod... That would probably be the easiest...If neccessary I am available to do this for you...:)

The ONLY reason to be concerned at this moment is if he were to be on the receiving end of a lightning strike...which while not impossible this time of the year is in fact highly unprobable...
My wife and I always get a good laugh when the forecasters predict "Thunder Snow". :D

DumDumDum.... THUNDER SNOW!!!! :eek::D

Thank goodness for OTA.

Ch 12 (TW912) has once again dropped out of HD during a great series (NCIS)

I switched to Dayton Ch 7 (OTA) A great HD picture. Dayton seems to be able to scroll school closings without loosing its HD

The HD is squeezed though... I hope after the digital transition that they tell people to check the sub-channel during commercial breaks and not during shows.

12 needs to upgrade it's graphics to HD and add 5.1 audio. The need to drop to SD after 5 min into NCIS is ridiculous.

The HD is squeezed though... I hope after the digital transition that they tell people to check the sub-channel during commercial breaks and not during shows.

With the number of viewers on cable or satellite, it's unlikely this will happen any time soon.

-Hooray for my dish being reachable from a window! I had to clear it off for the first time in two years of having D*.

i hear that terry.. trudging out in the snow at 5:30am with the scraper :) glad its not up high!

Good news, the sensible House rejected the Senate bill to delay the DTV transition date... still on for Feb 17 so far...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15675383#post15675383

Did a rescan on my Zenith DTT901 and i'm now receiving my first Dayton channel 2-1 and 2-2.

I had to do the clearing of the dish this afternoon as well. My placement was just out of reach from the window, but it is on a low roof that I could reach easily.

Did a rescan on my Zenith DTT901 and i'm now receiving my first Dayton channel 2-1 and 2-2.

I've got a Government Coupon, but I can't find the Zenith box anywhere. Someone told me they stopped making them. Best Buy is out of the Insignia version of that box too.

Out in Northgate Ch. 2-1 & 2-2 are the strongest Dayton channels. Sometimes I can get Ch. 16-2 thru 16-6 also.

Congrats!!! Now only 7-1, 7-2, 16-2, 16-3, 16-4, 16-5, 16-6, 22-1, 45-1, 45-2 to go!!!;)

I've got a Government Coupon, but I can't find the Zenith box anywhere. Someone told me they stopped making them. Best Buy is out of the Insignia version of that box too.

I helped a family pick up a Zenith DTT901 at the Radio Shack in the Kenwood Towne Center a few weeks ago.

I've got a Government Coupon, but I can't find the Zenith box anywhere. Someone told me they stopped making them. Best Buy is out of the Insignia version of that box too.

Try K-Mart

As of 6:28pm 2-1 and 2-2 disappeared. I guess it fades out at night.

As of 6:28pm 2-1 and 2-2 disappeared. I guess it fades out at night.

Reposition your antenna...

As of 6:28pm 2-1 and 2-2 disappeared. I guess it fades out at night.

getting those channels ok, up here in Maineville, oh.......

Don't forget CW HD from WBDT Dayton (digital 18, maps to 26.x) ....

Good news, the sensible House rejected the Senate bill to delay the DTV transition date... still on for Feb 17 so far...


Hope it stays that way ....

Given the recent goings on, I'd feel a lot better if today was Feb 17 ...

Don't forget CW HD from WBDT Dayton (digital 18, maps to 26.x)

Are they going to test their post-transition setup soon? I remember a while back that they were going to test their full-power digital signal running on channel 26.

So, anyone have a contact at WXIX that may be able to address the extremely low volume issue when they're inserting graphics and processing audio on their end?

So, anyone have a contact at WXIX that may be able to address the extremely low volume issue when they're inserting graphics and processing audio on their end?

No problem that I can see/hear...Volume is consistent here...

Are they going to test their post-transition setup soon? I remember a while back that they were going to test their full-power digital signal running on channel 26.

I dunno. Their original DTR filing with FCC from Feb 2008 seemed to indicate they had planned some testing of the Digital on 26 between Midnight and 5 AM sometime After Dec 31, 2008 -- But, there wasn't a specific date mentioned, and their plans might have changed since then.

There was a more recent filing from them from Late December to reduce power to 50% on the analog station beginning Jan 20th in order to modify a portion of the transmitter used for the analog for Digital operation on 26.

Looking at the info on the current post-transition CP for 26 at FCC site(see link at bottom of post), it seems to indicate the same antenna pattern(and Height) currently used by WBDT digital on 18 will be used post-transition, although oddly enough the Antenna ID shown is different(weird!) --- If that is true, the difference for anyone(given the antenna pattern is the same) between their current 35KW ERP facility on 18 vs. 50KW ERP (a fraction of a dB difference) on 26 isn't really worth mentioning .... However, if it is incorrect and they are "really" going to be using the antenna currently used for WBDT analog(which seems to also be specified for their 770KW ERP Post-transition maximization app which hasn't been acted upon yet by FCC), there should be a significant improvement for some -- For example :

Current 35 KW ERP facility -- 180 degree bearing from WBDT Transmit antenna = Relative field value = .207 = 1,499 Watts ERP squirted to the South ...

50 KW ERP on 26 with info as specfied in their current post-transition CP(Antenna pattern the same as is shown for their current facility on 18) - 180 degree beearing from WBDT = Relative field vale = .207 = 2,142 Watts ERP squirted to the south .... A fraction of a dB more than current, again not worth mentioning ...

50 KW ERP on 26 with antenna currently used by WBDT 26 analog - 180 degree bearing from WBDT - relative field value = .442 = 9,768 Watts ERP ... About 8dB More than current squirted to the South (from a higher transmit antenna height as well) ..... Each doubling of power = a 3dB increase ...

770 KW ERP (If approved by FCC at some point) on 26 with facility specified in the Maximization app(Note the antenna pattern info shown is *the same* as for WBDT current analog licensed facility, so is (more or less) the height specified) - 180 degree bearing from WBDT - Relative field value = .442 = 150.4 KW ERP squirted to the South -- a whopping ~20dB increase in power ....

Here's the link to the WBDT TV Query info :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=WBDT&arn=&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=0&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

No problem that I can see/hear...Volume is consistent here...

I should have mentioned I was having this issue during AI. Did you review a recording from earlier in the evening or were you watching their news? This may only be a problem with network programming. The audio levels for our recordings from Tuesday and Wednesday evening were significantly lower. The Tuesday evening AI had all sorts of switching going on (SD w/graphics-HD-HD w/graphics) and the audio levels went up and down as they switched.

Watched the news...Was wastching HD DVD (First Blood;)) before that...

Volume is consistent here...Consistently soft during FOX shows and LOUD during commercials, yes.

As of 6:28pm 2-1 and 2-2 disappeared. I guess it fades out at night.
Not to dash your hopes - everyone has different situations - but I receive 2.1 from Dayton with a little DIY antenna sitting behind my TV in the family room sometimes, when the weather is just right. With all the snow and ice, I imagine some people were getting some odd/different reception yesterday. That said, as mentioned above, it seems to be one of the easier Dayton stations to pick up from Cincinnati.

The interesting thing I find about 2.1 is that my "signal strength" is much lower than almost every other channel I get (sometimes 25-30%), but the "symbol quality" is rock-solid, 95-100%. On most of my other stations (both Cincinnati and Dayton), the strength is high, but the quality is lower. Regardless... I get it pretty reliably...

Does anyone have any info on WKRC and their HD newscasts? They have the cameras and were waiting on a master control/switch back in Nov/Dec. Any word if that got installed?

I have noticed with the syndicated programing discussed on the Dayton thread that many of the stations here are not offering many programs in HD. WCPO is far and away the leader with syndication. They have Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, and Oprah. They did have Desperate Housewives and several other late nite shows in HD, but lately they have been 4x3. Does anyone know if they are running out of space for data?

I haven't been able to check on Dayton stations as much because TW does not carry them, other than PBS.

Any info would be great, otherwise I will try and hit the source directly.

Does anyone have any info on WKRC and their HD newscasts?

The last I heard (late last year) was that they were still waiting on approval for some equipment "from the mothership" (Newport Television, LLC).

I don't know if the lack of HD Newscasts is hurting their numbers but I know that because of the way that they handle closings (drop to SD so that they can scroll them) that I stopped watching any network program from WKRC. Some of us are fortunate that we can get "out of town" CBS stations and until WKRC gets their act together I'll continue to skip their broadcasts. The same goes for their "joke" of a 10 PM newscast (on 12.2, the CW). "Little" WXIX does a MUCH better job on their 10 PM newscasts and it is in HD (with the closing information).

I agree on the WXIX volume issue... the commercials are WAY louder than the shows.

wxix was in dolby digital 2.0 instead of the usual 5.1 tonight for hd stuff and the local volume was way high compared to the programming volume

I watched the end of IDOL and about the first 20 minutes of HELLS KITCHEN and the volume was the same between commercials and shows...I honestly do not know what you are talking about...It is DD 2.0 though...

I have a Vista Media Center Question - I'm here in Cincy and I'm trying to get the guide for all the non-major-network stations. Right now I get "no data", is there a way for to get the data for these low power/local stations?

I guess I should mention my sound issues exist using TWC getting the HD locals via QAM. I don't watch much on FOX besides 24. I did notice it when Connor Chronicles were still on.

I have a Vista Media Center Question - I'm here in Cincy and I'm trying to get the guide for all the non-major-network stations. Right now I get "no data", is there a way for to get the data for these low power/local stations?

Channels 25-1 25-2 25-3 & 25-4 has no data being sent out...

I haven't had audio issues with WXIX-DT until this past week when they've been inserting the closing crawl. I can't say that I've noticed audio level difference between the program and the commercials (since I skip over them), but there's a significant difference between WXIX-DT and other channels.

Let's say my volume knob is a clock with 0 (no volume) being at about 7 o'clock. Typically I can watch everything with the knob set around 9 o'clock. Lately I've had to turn the knob to 12 o'clock on WXIX-DT.

Again, I'm noticing this only with network programming.

Here's a sample of the problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8egh8Ivn380

Now WKRC-DT's audio sounds over compressed. This is though DirecTV, OTA (w/HR20 and w/o), and through a different TV in the house, so it's not my receiver.

EDIT: I've reached an engineer with WKRC-DT and they're aware of the issue. I think it may now be resolved.

Now WKRC-DT's audio sounds over compressed. This is though DirecTV, OTA (w/HR20 and w/o), and through a different TV in the house, so it's not my receiver.

I checked both the (OTA) analog and digital feeds and both of them sound bad. While watching the noon news I notice a "ringing like" sound in the audio.

I have a Vista Media Center Question - I'm here in Cincy and I'm trying to get the guide for all the non-major-network stations. Right now I get "no data", is there a way for to get the data for these low power/local stations?

If I recall correctly, Vista MCE has the same issue as XP MCE, unless I'm mistaken about that, the following would apply to both :

Unless there's been some sort of recent "fix" for this, or another workaround I haven't managed to stumble across, If you are using OTA and using "antenna" as guide provider, you won't/can't get any of the guide info for the digital Subchannels, as MCE (XP/Vista)_ currently only uses the guide listings for the analog stations and maps them to the digital channels ....

Only possible current workaround I'm aware of that Might get you at least some of the listings for some of the subchannels is to use a "cable"/digital cable listing for your guide provider, and "map" the digital cable channel #'s involved to where you need them (Such as for say, WPTO-DT's 14 HD (14.6) ...

Detailed info on how to try that workaround(including the Registry hacks involved) is here :

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/1/201266/ShowThread.aspx

Also, Assuming you're using OTA(I don't know how it works for QAM) Note you will want to setup WPTO-DT (thinkTV14) for 14.2~14.6 and WPTD-DT (ThinkTV16) for 16.2~16.6 and not use the 14.1/16.1 MCE provides ... You won't get anything on 14.1 or 16.1 ...

BTW, (even using/selecting "antenna" for guide provider) you can also "map" WOTH analog listing to 25.1, and and WBQC analog listings to 25.2 and 25.3 ....

What is especially dumb about this of course is that MCE uses zap2it.com for the listings, but if you actually go to zap2it.com and use your zip and the antenna/broadcast lineup, you'll get full listings for your location, including for all the Digital subchannels (except for WOTH-LD's, although WOTH and WBQC analog listings will be there) ...

Good news, the sensible House rejected the Senate bill to delay the DTV transition date... still on for Feb 17 so far...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15675383#post15675383

The house is to vote again. This time it only requires a simple majority so it will probably be delayed. Hopefully many stations will go ahead and switch.

I would hope so. It seems most of the Cincinnati stations will switch on Feb 17th anyway.

Hawaii already switched a couple of weeks ago.

It seems most of the Cincinnati stations will switch on Feb 17th anyway.

I spoke to a few local station engineers and that seems to be the plan even IF a "delay bill" is passed. HOWEVER, we all know that engineers don't make the final decision. Some "suit" in a corporate office somewhere does and who knows where they will decide. A LOT of politics are involved here and quite often that changes what the logical decision should be.

I spoke to a few local station engineers and that seems to be the plan even IF a "delay bill" is passed. HOWEVER, we all know that engineers don't make the final decision. Some "suit" in a corporate office somewhere does and who knows where they will decide. A LOT of politics are involved here and quite often that changes what the logical decision should be.
I agree, but as someone here mentioned a while back, the stations are currently broadcasting both analog and digital, which has to take quite a bit of electricity. The sooner they can turn off one of those signals (the analog one), the sooner their electricity bill will drop tremendously. So hopefully - and as you said, who knows what the "suits" will do - hopefully, they will just go ahead and switch on the original date.

Of course, if this thing gets through the second vote (I heard there was going to be another vote?), they may mandate that stations HAVE to keep sending analog. Wouldn't it defeat the purpose of moving it back, if they let stations switch when they wanted to? The purpose of the delay isn't because the stations aren't ready, it's to help out the people in the receiving end who are not ready. So if they move the date, I would think they would have to force stations to keep sending analog.... or else, what's the point?
(wait, am I trying to find logic in something the government does???)

Did anyone have trouble with ABC (9.1) last night? I normally have 6/7 bars and last night I was between 1 and 3 bars.

It was fine this morning.

Jim

i was having trouble with abc 22 last nite myself, i turned our attenna so now we cant get the cinci channels.

i was having trouble with abc 22 last nite myself, i turned our attenna so now we cant get the cinci channels.

According to antennaweb.org, NBC (5.1) is at compass heading 234deg and 15.2mi and ABC 9.1 is at compass heading 231 14.3mi from my residence.

I received NBC, CBS (12.1), Fox (19.1) and PBS (14.x) perfectly last night. I am using a DB4 antenna with a 90deg spread and I have my antenna pointed at approx 230deg. I don't really understand why only ABC would be affected unless the issue was with ABC.

According to antennaweb.org, NBC (5.1) is at compass heading 234deg and 15.2mi and ABC 9.1 is at compass heading 231 14.3mi from my residence.

I received NBC, CBS (12.1), Fox (19.1) and PBS (14.x) perfectly last night. I am using a DB4 antenna with a 90deg spread and I have my antenna pointed at approx 230deg. I don't really understand why only ABC would be affected unless the issue was with ABC.

Because ABC (WCPO 9-1) broacasts on VHF, and you have a UHF antenna.

A email I got:

Dear Mr. Madden,

There is a possibility that WDTN and all other stations in the Dayton market may cease analog operations on February 17th but it is not for sure as of today.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Lisa Barhorst

Because ABC (WCPO 9-1) broacasts on VHF, and you have a UHF antenna.

so, would this be a better antenna choice?
Antennas Direct C4 ClearStream4 Outdoor Digital HD TV Antenna

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=C4

A outdoor antenna that gets both VHF and UHF. I like this one http://www.antennasdirect.com/V21_vhf_antenna.html

so, would this be a better antenna choice?
Antennas Direct C4 ClearStream4 Outdoor Digital HD TV Antenna

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=C4
Based on the marketing info it would seem to be a good choice for this area (hi-VHF plus UHF) for digital broadcasts. I don't have any personal experience with that antenna though. I would be interested in hearing if anyone has any information on the hi-VHF performance of that antenna.

A outdoor antenna that gets both VHF and UHF. I like this one http://www.antennasdirect.com/V21_vhf_antenna.html

for aescetic reasons, I prefer a smaller antenna. would a pre-amp help out?
Like this:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SAP8275&xzoom=Large#xview

for aescetic reasons, I prefer a smaller antenna. would a pre-amp help out?
Like this:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SAP8275&xzoom=Large#xview
Pre-amp probably not needed and could make it worse. Where are you located?

A pre amp can help but could over power it and you stil not get a signal. It happens on my indoor antenna for WCPO 9 when I turn the amp on.

Pre-amp probably not needed and could make it worse. Where are you located?

I am in Loveland, OH - about 15 miles from the tower. I have not had any problems with 9.1 until last night (and since that's my wife's favorite channel I need to 'fix' it).

A pre amp can help but could over power it and you stil not get a signal. It happens on my indoor antenna for WCPO 9 when I turn the amp on.


so, maybe a non-powered pre-amp would be better?
http://www.pldepot.com/detail.aspx?ID=128

All you need is VHF anttena go to Radio Shack and get one. I am in Delhi and I get WCPO fine with a indoor antenna. I cant see why your not getting it when your onlly 15 miles from the tower.

It was jusgt the atmosphere messing with 9.1 last night I was getting blurp in the picture on 9.1 last night. It was not doing it this morning or right now. Can you tell me if your getting 9.1 ok right now and what the strength is on that channel?

It was jusgt the atmosphere messing with 9.1 last night I was getting pos in the picture on 9 it was not doing it this morning or right now. CVan you tell me if your getting 9.1 ok right now and what the strength is on that channel?

I was getting it fine this morning again. My hisense receiver has a 7bar scale and I got 6 bars this morning. Last night I was getting 1-3 bars.

If the non-powered pre-amp would give me a better guarantee of 'always on' signal, I'll add it to my antenna. 9 has all my wife's shows and she's not happy if she can't watch them.

Enhanced signal propagation via "tropo scatter" has been occuring in area past couple of days, particuarly so last night. It was coming from all directions last night, but (at times) last night here Signals from Columbus, Lexington, Louisville and Indy stations were particularly elevated ....

My DTVPal DVR even automatically "added" WBNS-DT when my antenna(XG91 for UHF) was aimed South .... (even though at at other times co channel WUPX-DT 21 Morehead was decodeable) ..

Until analog shut off ----

WBNS 10 (analog) Columbus is of course co-channel with WCPO-DT 10 (9.x virtual)...

WSFJ 51 (analog) Newark Ohio (Columbus) is co-channel with WKEF-DT 51 (22.x virtual) ..

Update: That being said, best to use directional VHF/UHF receive antenna, and usually best to get it outdoors. Unless occasional co-channel interference is coming from a more distant station, in the SAMe direction as the desired closer station, the antenna's directivity helps with issues such as these. Using a UHF antenna for VHF reception not only means much less signal on VHF, it also means the antenna's pattern(directivity) will be much different(usually much "less" directivity) on VHF ..

hi-VHF(ch 7~13) antennas(or hi-VHF/UHF combos) are quite a bit smaller than low-VHF(ch 6) antennas or VHF/UHF combos .....

I was getting it fine this morning again. My hisense receiver has a 7bar scale and I got 6 bars this morning. Last night I was getting 1-3 bars.

If the non-powered pre-amp would give me a better guarantee of 'always on' signal, I'll add it to my antenna. 9 has all my wife's shows and she's not happy if she can't watch them.

That 'non-powered' pre-amp you linked to IS a powered amp...It is powered by a satellite receiver that your hi-sense is not...An inexpensive alternative to the antenna you linked to @ $60+ is this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

Then get one of these with it:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ and use it to join the VHF along with your 4 bay...

IF you need a pre-amp get one of these:

http://www.consumerdepot.com/products.asp?id=1512505

But I would suggest the antenna and UVSJ I suggested...

Bad picture on TW 905 (OTA 5.1) at 8:00 pm during "Chuck".

Apparently they are attempting a 3-D broadcast but seems to be no way to get regular HD without the 3-D. No glasses available here so will switch to TW919 for a new "House" in HD without the color blur of the 3-D attempt. I hope this doesn't become a regular occurence.

3-D is the ONLY way to see Chuck in HD tonight...We have the glasses from yesterday...The kids 3D DVD glasses also work...

TWC QAM channel 86.21 (WKRC-HD), I can get it on 2 different tuners in the house but not on my Hauppage 2250 card in my computer. I get 86.22 fine (the WKRC subchannel).

Any ideas? BTW, I couldn't get crap as far as QAM channels until I grabbed the beta drivers they released Jan 29 along with the recently released WinTV 7.

[edit] I later grabbed tsreader lite and it seems to tune WKRC-HD just fine. I'll chalk it up to crappy vendor support from Hauppage. :mad:

Bad picture on TW 905 (OTA 5.1) at 8:00 pm during "Chuck".

Apparently they are attempting a 3-D broadcast but seems to be no way to get regular HD without the 3-D. No glasses available here so will switch to TW919 for a new "House" in HD without the color blur of the 3-D attempt. I hope this doesn't become a regular occurence.
I watched the show in 3D... it was pretty cool although my eyes did start to get fatigued toward the end. The few times I lifted the glasses I didn't think the picture looked all that bad... You can watch the non-3D version online (as well as the 3D version) at NBC.com. When that knife was thrown at us it definitely made me "dodge" to avoid it!

Well, I was finally able to find a Zenith converter box today. Thanks for those who helped with suggestions on where I could find one. I found one at a K-Mart, & now it was only $49.99 & it has analogue pass through now.

The interesting thing was, when I set it to auto-scan for channels it found Ch. 25-5 which was titled "Classic". The channel, 25-5 is not currently broadcasting anything. I wonder if Classic will have White Springs TV eventually. I'm guessing that the channel titled "Skyline" may go back to being a Skyline shot with 24 hour NOAA weather. WOTH did say one of their sub channels would be used for 24 hour Weather.

Is there any programming currently showing on 25-5?

- Trip

Last week Circuit City in Norwood had a huge stack of converter boxes, but due to their liquidation I don't think they'll take Gov't coupons.

Is there any programming currently showing on 25-5?

- Trip

No, .... just the station ID on the pull up on screen guide info when using the remote control. I think it's called PSIP. It just says "Classic" on that.

See attached file for TSReader output for WOTH-LD captured around 3pm today.

Watching NCIS tonight, and WKRC's closings at the bottom filled the screen. I guess this means they upgraded within the last week? Although I'd say there's still a learning curve, because my TV screen went about three minutes with a big black space at the bottom where the closings go and NCIS was still squeezed.

On commercial right now, will stay tuned...

Update in the 10:00 hour...checked satellite signal. The 4:3 broadcast of The Mentalist was squeezed by the crawl. No empty space on the sides, just a squished Mentalist.

Watching NCIS tonight, and WKRC's closings at the bottom filled the screen. I guess this means they upgraded within the last week? Although I'd say there's still a learning curve, because my TV screen went about three minutes with a big black space at the bottom where the closings go and NCIS was still squeezed.


Yes. "Without a Trace" fills the screen tonight even with the trailer. Much better than the last snow.

Watching NCIS tonight, and WKRC's closings at the bottom filled the screen. I guess this means they upgraded within the last week? Although I'd say there's still a learning curve, because my TV screen went about three minutes with a big black space at the bottom where the closings go and NCIS was still squeezed.

Perhaps their newer crawl system had problems last week and they had to revert to their older system. I'm sure they have bigger things to worry about at this point since we're two weeks away from analog shutdown. :D

hey xmitter man - any word on what 12 is going to do if / when the dtv switch is delayed? Hopefully you guys will shoot some video of the switch getting flipped off!

Well, I was finally able to find a Zenith converter box today. Thanks for those who helped with suggestions on where I could find one. I found one at a K-Mart, & now it was only $49.99 & it has analogue pass through now.

The interesting thing was, when I set it to auto-scan for channels it found Ch. 25-5 which was titled "Classic". The channel, 25-5 is not currently broadcasting anything. I wonder if Classic will have White Springs TV eventually. I'm guessing that the channel titled "Skyline" may go back to being a Skyline shot with 24 hour NOAA weather. WOTH did say one of their sub channels would be used for 24 hour Weather.

the converter boxes that are eligible for the coupons are so-so IMO. I have an Apex from Best Buy and it's gathering dust now. I wanted a component out and a better tv guide. On ebay you can get a hisense dtv converter box, that has component out and a fantastic tvguide for $30 plus $15 shipping.
Well worth it IMO.

Update in the 10:00 hour...checked satellite signal. The 4:3 broadcast of The Mentalist was squeezed by the crawl. No empty space on the sides, just a squished Mentalist.Yes, WKRC has absolutely destroyed any value the shows might have had by squishing them - vertically only causing circles to become ovals, squares to become rectangles, and normal sized people to become obese. WCPO does a good job with keeping the aspect ratio in tact for the most part by bringing in the sides of the picture a bit and cutting off a bit of the top and bottom. WLWT does not bring the sides in but they do cut a bit off the top and bottom so their squishing is not nearly as bad as what WKRC is doing.

OK, I mentioned earlier that I can tune all TWC QAM channels in Fairfield with TSReader Lite but I can't with the WinTV software for my Hauppage 2250 internal card. This begs the question... is there some aftermarket media player that handles it better? Could I use TSreader to watch and record?

The only real viable alternative is downgrading to Vista Media Center. I can get all the local HD stations available with it. I'd rather wait for Windows 7 to mature a bit after release before I switch to it so I'm stuck with XP for now.

One thing I have noticed is WinTV 7 records to .ts and makes very nice dvds. If I could only tune WKRC-HD with it! :mad:

[btw, I am asking here because this seems to be an issue with the TWC local QAM I assume. I haven't found a good solution yet scouring the pertinent forums elsewhere.]

OK, I mentioned earlier that I can tune all TWC QAM channels in Fairfield with TSReader Lite but I can't with the WinTV software for my Hauppage 2250 internal card. This begs the question... is there some aftermarket media player that handles it better? Could I use TSreader to watch and record? Do you have a requirement that it must be free? I would suggest BeyondTV to you for a full DVR solution that will work with your Hauppage 2250 card for QAM HD. I've used BeyondTV as my HD DVR for OTA for over 2 years now and I don't think there is anything better out there. You can download the trial at their web site, www.snapstream.com.

I am asking this for 2 family members and I've tried to search with no results.

We live on the west side of Cinti. and unable to receive OTA Digital Channel 9ABC. They both have HDTV's with new HDTV OTA amp. antennas. When they scan they both pick up all HDTV channels except 9.1.

I did a search a few weeks ago and someone wrote Digital 9 was 10.1. That didn't pick up anything.

Please help!

Thanks,

Make sure the antenna is for VHF as well as UHF. Also keep in mind various interference issues can be more problematical on VHF than UHF, especially with "rabbit ears" indoors. -- Amps can cause more of a problem than a "solution" when such issues are involved as well.

If you can acheive good reception of channel 9 analog signal(hook antenna up to "analog" TV to try it, once you acheive good results from analog 9, then hook up antenna to HDTV or digital receiver and scan), chances are good, you'll get good reception of their digital signal on 10 as well .... After analog shut off, of course you won't be able to do this ....

As for the manual channel addition possibility :

Different receivers behave differently regarding how you can (or cannot, some won't let you do this "manually" at all/all you can do on those is "autoscan") "scan in" stations indivdually while looking at a "signal meter"/adjusting antenna for best results when the virtual channel information isn't decoded during a channel scan ...

And, BTW, WCPO program streams are actually # 3 (for 9.1) and # 4 .(for 9.2).... So, in some cases some receivers might "need" you to punch in 10.3 or 10.4(weather) for you to "see" anything, even if your signal meter shows "good enough" quality signal on channel 10 (if say you had punched in 10.1 ) ...

Typically once you adjust antenna so that you can get "good enough" signal from WCPO On channel 10, you'll want to make sure it's "scanned into" receiver's memory so from then on, you will "see them" on channel 9.1 and 9.2 ....

Hope some of that helps

Do you have a requirement that it must be free? I would suggest BeyondTV to you for a full DVR solution that will work with your Hauppage 2250 card for QAM HD. I've used BeyondTV as my HD DVR for OTA for over 2 years now and I don't think there is anything better out there. You can download the trial at their web site, www.snapstream.com.
And when Jim plugs BeyondTV, I have to plug SageTV. :D Not free, but it's the only HDTV software that offers an HD Extender (the "SageTV HD Theater", aka HD200). It allows you to put your "server" HTPC somewhere else and stream HD to your TV set, via your home network. The HD200 also does all the encoding so your server doesn't need to do hardly any work, and it's completely silent (no fan = no noise at the TV set). It works pretty darn flawlessly... and the Hauppage cards are all compatible.

Ch 64-1 is not sending out any Guide info.

The HD200 also does all the encoding ....

Does it ?

LOL .... Heeelarious ....

WLWT 5 showed a new graphic tonight saying 14 days till transition.

WLWT 5 showed a new graphic tonight saying 14 days till transition.

Too bad the govt decided to delay until June, I don't know if I can take 4 more months of the DTV transition commercials and graphics.

WLWT 5 showed a new graphic tonight saying 14 days till transition.

Well... maybe not. The House passed the delay bill that the Senate had recently passed. The new final shutdown date will be June 12, assuming President Obama signs it.

http://www.wlwt.com/digital-tv/18636478/detail.html

However, I believe that stations will be allowed to turn off their analog signals starting at midnight on February 18. So hopefully most of the stations in the country (especially in our market!) will go ahead and shut them off at that time.

I know there has been discussion on the FOX19 audio, but I couldn't find the message. So I'll post what I hear.

I am running FOX19 on TWC via a HD digital DVR, channel 919.

When we were watching FOX19 last night, I had to crank my audio receiver to -22 to hear Fringe. Normally it runs at -30 as the audio level for all channels. The commercials seemed a little louder, but all in all, the audio level was very low. Could it be the crawlers with the school closings, etc that were on the screen?

Tonight right now, my wife and I are watching American Idol and there are no crawlers and the audio is just fine on -30.

Anyone else hearing anything else like this? Maybe I need to contact FOX19?

I would contact them the audio is low for OTA also on 19.1.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Trialing BeyondTV now. So far I like the interface but now I'm gonna have to run it through the motions of recording and burning a coupla shows to see how the quality is.

I must say, I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of the WinTV 7 .ts files ripped to DVD with ConvertxtoDVD. The issue of 1 missing station really bugged me though. Also, my initial run through configuring the local HD channels went bust with BeyondTV but I found a cfg tweak on their support site that let the scanner search for longer per channel and it fixed the issue.

Well... maybe not. The House passed the delay bill that the Senate had recently passed. The new final shutdown date will be June 12, assuming President Obama signs it.

http://www.wlwt.com/digital-tv/18636478/detail.html

However, I believe that stations will be allowed to turn off their analog signals starting at midnight on February 18. So hopefully most of the stations in the country (especially in our market!) will go ahead and shut them off at that time.Most of the stations in Dayton have already applied for analog shutoff as planned on Feb 17. WHIO has even announced that they are doing it. I am guessing that most markets will be similar. In Cincinnati, it will be interesting because WKRC and WCPO both have "extra" work to do beyond simply turning off the analog transmission, so if they decide to wait until June, I could see WLWT, WXIX, and WSTR all waiting as well so that they aren't the only ones without analog transmission...

The bill, a bad idea to begin with, is not even going to accomplish what it was intended to. The only thing it will do is give TV stations more time to do their transition steps - it does not help consumers because analogs are still going do be shut off in most areas. This is an unbelievably poorly informed and ignorant idea by the new presidential administration and congress.

Does it ?

LOL .... Heeelarious ....

Encoding, transcoding, decoding, recoding.... Whatever. No need to be snarky with those of us who don't know everything like you.:p

Translation: Your server can be a Pentium III with a clock speed of 600 Mhz, 128 Mb RAM, and cheapo onboard video. As opposed to watching through your PC, where you need a lot of RAM, a fast processor, and a killer video card.

I think the only people who should be LOL'ing are those who bought an HD Extender for $200 instead of spending $1500-$2000 (or more) to build an HTPC... :D

No need to be snarky with those of us who don't know everything like you.:p


I wasn't laughing at you. The reason I was laughing is because I've went to the effort to explain a bit about it before, and it apparently was a waste of time ....

So, In other words, I was really laughing at my own idoicy in thinking the info I posted would be helpful/be of any use ....

And thanks for the compliment, but I don't deserve it. I know little. That's why I typically do more reading and researching than posting. When I do post, I do attempt to do my best to provide accurate information, but of course, I welcome corrections, am happy to admit when I'm wrong(well usually), as like everyone, I make mistakes ....


I think the only people who should be LOL'ing are those who bought an HD Extender for $200 instead of spending $1500-$2000 (or more) to build an HTPC... :D

I bought a ATSC capture card(about $60), and 10FT DVI-To HDMI cable(from monoprice, don't recall how much I paid for it, not all that much) and added it the PC(About $650 as I recall) I already had and also use for "everything else" ...

It's not used as a "dedicated" HTPC(HTPC is probably not the best description for it either, but that's nice and short at least), nor as a "dedicated" DVR, nor would I want it/need it to be. It's hooked up to HDTV and audio receiver in my work/Hobby room.

I recently added a DTV Pal DVR for the main/family HDTV, and also have a Philips HDD+DVD recorder w/ATSC tuner in it on that setup for over a year ... Typically only use the HDD for "recording" on the latter, and now typically only now used for programming from a Dish Network(SD) sat receiver I have hooked up to it, and as a Upconverting DVD player ....

Here's the FCC notice about "What's Next?":

http://www.oab.org/cffm/custom/PDFs/FCC-09-6A1.pdf

So we'll all know by Monday midnight...

As of February 1, Nielsen is calling 5.8 million homes still completely unready for the DTV transition, 5.1 percent of the population. That's up 700,000 from last month, but still apparently enough to put the kibosh on a February shutoff across the country. Albuquerque-Santa Fe still leads/trails all markets, we'll see if they get any special attention from the FCC and others over the next few months.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/dtv-readiness-update-51-of-us-households-still-unprepared/

CEA worries DTV delay could cause a converter shortage

In one of what's sure to be many opinions on the now-inevitable DTV deadline shifting from later this month to June, CEA President and CEO Gary Shapiro pledged support for a successful transition, including devoting part of an upcoming event to DTV education, but worries how the change may affect retailers and manufacturers. Since they had planned their reserves and resupplies around a transition this month, he apparently sees a scenario where we could have plenty of DTV converter coupons, and no boxes to buy. Honestly, we think he may be overestimating our initiative, since most (or at least the 39%+ that won't still switch this month anyway) unprepared will hit the snooze button until it becomes entirely mandatory, and the total number of homes that require a digital TV box isn't going to suddenly go up, so there should be plenty to go around, right?

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20090204006303/en

Digital D-Day: Monday Night

Local TV stations have until the end of Monday to decide whether to pull the plug on analog signals this month, or delay until June 12. FCC regulations released today say stations must notify the FCC by 11:59 p.m. Monday, Feb. 9, if they're sticking with the original Feb. 17 deadline.

So far, only WLWT-TV (Ch 5) has made its decision. It will keep analog on until June 12.

If stations opt to cut off analog Feb. 17 -- as many stations here want to do -- they must run crawls notifying viewers starting Feb. 10 through the end of Feb. 17. For the first five days, the crawl air 5 minutes every hour of the station's analog broadcast day, including during prime-time. For the final two days, the crawl must air 10 minutes every hour, including during prime time.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3af0e a60a3-92e8-4035-92ea-4870e63aa5cf&plckCommentSortOrder=TimeStampAscending&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Digital TV Delay? Maybe Not Here!

Spread the word: We could still lose our analog TV channels Feb. 17, despite the four-month delay approved by Congress yesterday. Local TV station managers -- and their corporate owners -- are examing the legislation and awaiting federal guidelies which could allow stations to stick with the plan to cease analog broadcasts in two weeks. Final decisions will be made by stations here today through Monday.


Whatever happens will be confusing. I agree with the station managers on one thing: The biggest issue is not converter box coupons, but the DTV frustrations I'm hearing from over-the-air viewers. And those issues won't be solved by either deadline. There's going to be confusion and upset people who lose local TV reception.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a9c8 3ca71-00ef-4064-8f4c-3ffbefd69c7e&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

So far, only WLWT-TV (Ch 5) has made its decision. It will keep analog on until June 12.


To me that seems like a dumb decision. Of ALL the Cincinnati stations WLWT seems like the station that needs to invest the money that they would save by shutting down their analog transmitter into other budgets (for example upgrading their studio so that they can provide HD newscasts).

Sinclair has announced that ALL their station will cut off analog on Feb. 17th so that only leaves WCPO, WKRC, and WXIX that we don't know about yet. My bet is that all three will shut off analog on the 17th (or soon thereafter).

Most Local TV Stations Delay Digital Switch

Never mind! Forget about local TV stations sticking with the Feb. 17 date for dropping analog signals. As of this afternoon, 5 of the 6 stations -- all but WSTR-TV (Ch 64) -- say they'll continue analog signals into spring. The stations had looked into keeping the February date, but decided to honor the delay passed by Congress.

For now, Ch 64 will be the only one to drop analog. Owners Sinclair Broadcast Group had declared earlier this week, before the House vote, that it would definitely cut off analog Feb. 17. But I'm guessing that could change.... with Ch 64's low ratings, do they really want to reach fewer home by cutting off analog viewers?

Viewers should expect to see stations begin cutting off analog on or after May 21 -- the day after May sweeps end. Stations may make the switch during the three-week period between end of sweeps and June 12.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a378 6be0b-8a96-4189-b5f9-431a80336535&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

WPTO is first Cincinnati area station to file to shut down analog Feb 17 with the "new procedures" from FCC outlined in the Document Xmtrman posted a link to regarding DTV delay act. Note such filings(nor the DTV delay act), or the reason for them are dependant upon the Pres. signing the bill.

Might that change, regarding WPTO filing, I don't know. WPTD Dayton has filed as well under the new procedures. More info in Dayton thread.

There are 8 or 9 Full service stations considered to be in Cincinnati DMA :

WLWT
WCPO
WKRC
WPTO (COL = Oxford, OH - Still Cincy DMA)
WXIX (COL = Newport, KY - Still Cincy DMA)
WCET
WKON (COL = Owenton, KY - I *think* it's Cincy DMA)
WCVN (COL = Covington, KY - Still Cincy DMA)
WSTR

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WKOI transmits from location within Cincinnati DMA, but is considered to be in Dayton DMA, because their COL(community of license) is Richmond, In, within Dayton DMA.

What is up with WCVN, ch. 54? I noticed that they now have side bars and top and bottom black bars (currently watching Nightly Business News at 6:40 PM).

I'm watching the OTA analog feed but it is the same way on their digital feed. WCET, which carries the same program at 7 PM shows it in full screen. It has been this way for (at least) the last three days.

WCVN as of 1:12am is still doing the little square box with black boxes around it on 54, 54.1, and 54.2.

Dayton & Ch 64 Pulling Plug On Analog

Dayton is pulling the plug on all analog signals, along with Cincinnati's WSTR-TV (Channel 64), in 10 days. Dayton's Channels 2, 7, 16, 22 and 45 -- which come in very strong into Butler and Warren counties, sometimes better than the Cincinnati stations -- will cease analog broadcasting at 11:59 p.m. on Feb. 17, the deadline set by Congress three years ago.

Cincinnati's five other stations -- Channels 5, 9, 12, 19 and 48 -- plus Oxford's Channel 14 (operated by Ch. 16) -- will continue broadcasting both analog and digital signals into spring.

After the House approved pushing back the digital deadline to June 12, Cincinnati station managers had looked into sticking with the Feb. 17 deadline. But the strict federal guidelines for switching this month to DTV convinced Cincinnati stations to keep broadcasting in both analog and digital for several months, says Bill Fee, Ch 9 VP & GM. Stations would say about $6,000 a month in electrical costs by turning off old analog transmitters.

Sinclair Broadcast Group, which owns Channel 64 and Dayton's Channels 22 and 45, had announced Tuesday its stations would adhere to the original Feb. 17 date. Dayton's WPDT-TV (Channel 16) and WHIO-TV (Channel 7) wanted to turn off analog this month to make technological improvements on their towers for DTV.

Some Cincinnati stations may drop analog before June 12, under Federal Communications Commission regulations released Thursday. Stations here could start turning off analog after May sweeps end May 20, Fee says.

The Dayton shut-off could be a significant test for the area. Where I live in Fairfield near Jungle Jim's, we get Dayton stations (both analog and digital) better than Cincinnati stations. In fact, Ch. 5 is the only digital station I get with rabbit ears and a converter box. So we'll see what happens, how many viewers are unprepared or disenfranchised when Dayton pulls the plug.

Do any of you rely on Dayton analog signals? Are you prepared for DTV?

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a27e 80c84-6a5c-4c91-833d-a037659e766c&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

The info for 14 WPTO is not correct. Look at thier updated aplication.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101294009&formid=387&fac_num=25065

In big letters at the bottom of the aplication it says:

THE PURPOSE OF THIS UPDATE IS TO NOTIFY THE COMMISSION THAT WPTO WILL TERMINATE ITS ANALOG TELEVISION SERVICE AT MIDNIGHT ON FEBRUARY 17, 2009.

Aplication list:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=25065

You can see from the list they filed yesturday February 6th.

Any word yet on Dayton Ch. 26?

Will any of the Dayton stations increase their power now???

On an unrelated note...I noticed that 25-5 is HD though there is no programming yet...

Hey Rob - while we appreciate the info, you really should quote your sources when you cut and paste those news articles in here. Not trying to be a jerk, it's just etiquette (not that someone would come here trying to sue someone over it, but you never know...) :) I'm surprised some AVS Mod has not already notified you of that.

Jeff - what do you think of the DTV Pal DVR? Last year when I was first looking to make the jump to OTA (and my wife said "we can do it if you can find a DVR solution for OTA"), the only device I could find info about was this unit. At the time, it had just been debuted at CES in Las Vegas, and was being called the TR-50... it was supposed to come out in July (though it didn't until November, I believe), and was billed as the only OTA DVR. Rather than waiting five months (which would have turned into 10 months), I went the HTPC route. You are the first person I have heard of around here with one - waddaya think? How far out does the EPG go for presetting recordings? I thought it was only supposed to see 3 days into the future...

As for the encoding/recoding/decoding thing, what can I say, I guess I don't read every post here, I just skim for "topics". But as for my original post, your reply came off snarky... Don't worry, I'm over it. ;)

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a27e 80c84-6a5c-4c91-833d-a037659e766c&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

:eek: Yea, bad form to copy/paste like that. Above is the link.

Did anyone see some changes in WLWT's digital signal recently? I've been getting more 'drops' on 5.1 for a few weeks now - thought it was the weather at first, but seems not. My attic-mounted antenna didn't move, and it's the only station that is causing me problems - so I'm a bit confused...

I'm in N KY and used to get a rock-solid signal all round. The glitches aren't bad, but a minimum of 2-3 during a typical 1 hour show, which never happened before. It's not the TV, as I tried different receivers (including the PC!)

WLWT 5 did a little work a few weeks ago and was off the air most of the day with thier digital signal. After they did the work thier signal quallity had dropped. I used to get them around 86 to 88 now it sits around 78 to 80.

I have been gettings these dropouts for weeks now...

WLWT 5 did a little work a few weeks ago and was off the air most of the day with thier digital signal. After they did the work thier signal quallity had dropped. I used to get them around 86 to 88 now it sits around 78 to 80.Ah yes, I remember now about that work. I wonder what they did that has caused this... Anyone here with any more 'technical' insight on what they may have done? I assume they didn't simply reduce output power, as that would be crazy.

I have been gettings these dropouts for weeks now...Do you happen to remember when they started? I'm sure that I was getting a rock solid picture from them in early December, but can't remember if it was good or not over Xmas.

I wonder if it's just their OTA signal - anyone with a cable feed noticed any change?

No change on TW's QAM signal...I have been mentioning I get dropouts for awhile now and thought it was my antenna...I rebuilt the antenna which did indeed improve reception but the non consistent dropouts have remained...This has been going on for some time now but when I asked if others had the same problem on 5 I got a negative response...Like you though no problem with any other channel...

No change on TW's QAM signal...I have been mentioning I get dropouts for awhile now and thought it was my antenna...I rebuilt the antenna which did indeed improve reception but the non consistent dropouts have remained...This has been going on for some time now but when I asked if others had the same problem on 5 I got a negative response...Like you though no problem with any other channel...Heh, I'm only an infrequent reader of the thread, so I missed your earlier comments. Definitely something up with their signal - I noticed robmadden1 mentioned previously he had 'called the GM' at the station about the downtime during Jan. Maybe he can help us to find out what is going on here?

FWIW, I'm 103 miles from their tower, but WLWT-DT is occasionally decoding and completely locking in from time to time as I type, while none of the other Cincinnati DTVs have gotten that strong. When tropo conditions allow me to see these stations, WLWT-DT is almost always the strongest. This appears to be evident this morning, too.

Steve

Here's the original info on the work:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/18495310/detail.html

Here's the original info on the work:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/18495310/detail.htmlThanks Rob. Do you have any tips on the best person to contact at the station? I'm thinking perhaps they have introduced some other error during that work, possibly the signal is still 'strong' (as goldrich says, the absolute power is damned good), but could have something else 'wrong' with it. Excuse me if that makes no sense, but I'm no technical transmission expert!!

Did anyone see some changes in WLWT's digital signal recently? I've been getting more 'drops' on 5.1 for a few weeks now - thought it was the weather at first, but seems not. My attic-mounted antenna didn't move, and it's the only station that is causing me problems - so I'm a bit confused...

I'm in N KY and used to get a rock-solid signal all round. The glitches aren't bad, but a minimum of 2-3 during a typical 1 hour show, which never happened before. It's not the TV, as I tried different receivers (including the PC!)

Well, I don't know about the RF signal/haven't spent enough time checking it but from when I have, it's as strong and as steady as can be currently and recently ...

However -- I capped their TS during "ER" On Thursday Night, and ran it through MPEG2repair and there were Two "major" instances (about 17 minutes in and about 40 minutes in) of Continuity/TEI errors causing "glitches" with the Stream -- In other words, the sorts of thing that can be involved for what appears to be a reception related "dropout", among other things ....And, That's very, very unusual, in fact I don't think I've EVER noticed such an error(or "dropout") from them before .... Then again though, I don't watch or cap a lot of stuff from them ....

Those types of errors *can* be due to reception issues with the RF signal, usually on the user end, but (speaking very "basically") they can also be due to something going wrong with the stream itself, or with their signal in general at the 'station end' ....

It would probably be difficult, but if at least two of us experience "instances" of these glitches (dropouts) occuring in two or more receive locations that we can confirm our occuring for both receive locations at the Exact same time, then we can generally rule out reception issue on the user end, and if its occuring via TW QAM, (which is possible), would could probably rule out "reception" issue alltogther ...

Update: Another thing to check that may or may not be useful is whether or not the "glitch" occurs only with the 5.1 streams, or if other streams in the TS are effected as well, such as for 5.2, or for their PSIP streams ... I'm afraid I already deleted the TS from during ER, but I can actually check this with some software I have (Not Mpeg2repair, which will only report on the program stream you're "keeping") which will check all the streams in their TS and report which streams have the continuity errors ....

BTW, many moons ago, I recall something similar occuring with WHIO, Dayton. And we were able to "coordinate" on Dayton thread and confirm something was "wrong" at WHIO, with everyone experiening "stoppwatchable" so to speak dropouts at the same time ... This was back in 2001 or 2002 or so, and was "fixed" relatively soon ... But, in that case, the "glitch" was happening very regularly, if I recall, about every 10 minutes or so ...

Well, I don't know about the RF signal/haven't spent enough time checking it but from when I have, it's as strong and as steady as can be currently and recently ...

However -- I capped their TS during "ER" On Thursday Night, and ran it through MPEG2repair and there were Two "major" instances (about 17 minutes in and about 40 minutes in) of Continuity/TEI errors causing "glitches" with the Stream -- In other words, the sorts of thing that can be involved for what appears to be a reception related "dropout", among other things ....And, That's very, very unusual, in fact I don't think I've EVER noticed such an error(or "dropout") from them before .... Then again though, I don't watch or cap a lot of stuff from them ....

Those types of errors *can* be due to reception issues with the RF signal, usually on the user end, but (speaking very "basically") they can also be due to something going wrong with the stream itself, or with their signal in general at the 'station end' ....

It would probably be difficult, but if at least two of us experience "instances" of these glitches (dropouts) occuring in two or more receive locations that we can confirm our occuring for both receive locations at the Exact same time, then we can generally rule out reception issue on the user end, and if its occuring via TW QAM, (which is possible), would could probably rule out "reception" issue alltogther ...

Update: Another thing to check that may or may not be useful is whether or not the "glitch" occurs only with the 5.1 streams, or if other streams in the TS are effected as well, such as for 5.2, or for their PSIP streams ... I'm afraid I already deleted the TS from during ER, but I can actually check this with some software I have (Not Mpeg2repair, which will only report on the program stream you're "keeping") which will check all the streams in their TS and report which streams have the continuity errors ....

BTW, many moons ago, I recall something similar occuring with WHIO, Dayton. And we were able to "coordinate" on Dayton thread and confirm something was "wrong" at WHIO, with everyone experiening "stoppwatchable" so to speak dropouts at the same time ... This was back in 2001 or 2002 or so, and was "fixed" relatively soon ... But, in that case, the "glitch" was happening very regularly, if I recall, about every 10 minutes or so ...Hey, yes that makes a lot of sense. As you said, the actual 'strength' of the signal seems still very high, yet somehow there are these 'glitches' which are easy to track using m2r. I use my PC for capping a lot (it's my main HD viewing option), and WLWT is usually VERY reliable. I think I saw more of those 'major' errors in the streams these past few weeks than in the past 2 years!

I also capped ER on Thursday on my PC, though now I edited it for myself so not sure if our timestamps would match. Those '17 and 40 mins' - are they referring to show length or the cap? What time did you start the recording?

I plan to cap Heroes on the PC on Monday night, so maybe some others could do the same and we could compare results?

EDIT - I logged my cap of ER. Here's the error I had around 40 mins - if it's identical to yours, that's some good 'evidence'...

Sequence Frame 42564(5-P) / Time 0:40:01 :
VideoError: Missing 188 slice macroblocks at MBA=7372(832,976)
VideoError: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=7370(800,976)
FileInfo: Last video errors span 17 bytes at file offset 124034701 in file ER_090205.ts
FileInfo: Last video errors span 4 bytes at file offset 124036128 in file ER_090205.ts

Well the dropouts I am experiencing are not occuring via TW QAM...OTA only...And happens on both 5.1 and non 5.1 audio methods...

I also capped ER on Thursday on my PC, though now I edited it for myself so not sure if our timestamps would match. Those '17 and 40 mins' - are they referring to show length or the cap? What time did you start the recording?


Well, unfortunetly I deleted the error log file and the cap itself and was just going from memory on those times, so they are probably not very close to being accurate ... (sorry!)

I also didn't set a "timer" to schedule it, as I wasn't sure if I was going to watch it live or not, so I also don't remember exactly what time I started it using WATCHHDTV's "silent Record" option, had to be right around 9:59 or 10pm though ...

I think The one you listed at 40:01 had to be around the same time as the second "glitch" I had ....

Update: Well, that is if you didn't edit out the commercial breaks, as I didn't ....


I plan to cap Heroes on the PC on Monday night, so maybe some others could do the same and we could compare results?


I think I could probably do that ... I also just started a cap at 4:30pm for ProBowl from WLWT and have it run an hour or so ...


EDIT - I logged my cap of ER. Here's the error I had around 40 mins - if it's identical to yours, that's some good 'evidence'...


I do remember the errors I had were reported as continuity/TEI errors, I didn't look closely enough to see if the errors you posted were there as well until you posted about it, I thought I might have to reseat my cap card(which is why I didn't keep the log this time/etc), because I've had that be a cause for Continuity/TEI errors in the past ....

It's possible though if there's something "dirty" about the stream because of issues involving their "RF signal", the errors we get may be different, as the 8VSB demods in our cards might be handling it a little differently .... But, they should happen around the same time ...

If it is something going on with their RF signal (exciter or STL/etc) -- Or, perhaps to say it better, a "transmission error", rather than something happening at or before their encoder in their air chain, then cable folks getting the signal via a fiber feed from WLWT probalby wouldn't see these issues ...

BTW, TSPE (TS packet editor)will check all the streams in the TS for errors(for Continuity and Transport indicator(TEI) errors at least), and report which stream (by PID) has the errors ... If it effects all of them, it will list the errors for all (multiple) PID's at each occurance ....

I have the pro Bowl game on since 4:40 and no dropout yet...Will post approximate time if/when a dropout occurs...

Dropout 4:49...

Drop out 4:51...

I'm watching pro-bowl Live from WLWT as well, haven't seen any issues so far, but then again I'm going to be in and out and am doing things like "monitoring out of the corner of my eye", so it's possible I might have missed any glitches already ....

I also went ahead and added 2 more hours (to stop it at 7:30) to the cap ....

Update: Just saw splicer's post -- No "dropout" here at 4:49 or 4:51 -- If there had been I'm pretty sure I would have noticed it at that time .... It will be interesting to see though if the error checking software finds any glitches at that time, as its still possible there could be one ....

Ok, I just set a cap for the next couple of hours. Will let it run then report back with my log. I think there's some mileage in that comment about something 'dirty' in the RF stream, as one of my 2 capture cards seems to 'mask' a few of the errors, but not all. It's a bit beyond me, but certainly something is wrong.

I also have TSPE, but will post the m2r log in the first instance as I'm more familiar with that one...

Dropout 5:15...during 'Navy' commercial...

Dropout 5:19...

Dropout 5:22...

Dropout 5:24...

Dropout...times 2... 5:26

Dropouts 5:27 times 2...

Anyone else having all these dropouts???

BTW...Video never wavers...Dropouts are audio only...

I have not seen any dropouts with just watching on my tv video or audio. Just the lower singnal strength. I am using my ufo looking antenna. maybe the audio dropout you think you are getting is when they play the sound from the coaches headset.

I've been paying close attention since 4:45pm. No Video or audio dropouts so far (5:38:10).

"dropouts" should effect both video and audio, though ....

I've been paying close attention since 4:45pm. No Video or audio dropouts so far (5:38:10).

"dropouts" should effect both video and audio, though ....

On any other channel I agree...But with WLWT-DT video remains consitent and only audio drops out...Although rare...the dropouts also occur during commercials like it did during the 'Navy' commercial...Even then the dropouts are just long enough to ba annoying...Happens quickly...MUCH quicker than when Vid/Aud dropouts occur...

Vid/Aud dropouts I can see my signal meter drop...Just just had another dropout 5:46...And 5:48...meter drpped but video not affected...

2 dropouts 5:52...

WDTN-DT never a dropout...Weird...

Correction...Dropout WDTN-DT 2-1 5:56...Audio only...

On any other channel I agree...But with WLWT-DT video remains consitent and only audio drops out...Although rare...the dropouts also occur during commercials like it did during the 'Navy' commercial...Even then the dropouts are just long enough to ba annoying...Happens quickly...MUCH quicker than when Vid/Aud dropouts occur...

Vid/Aud dropouts I can see my signal meter drop...Just just had another dropout 5:46...And 5:48...meter drpped but video not affected...

No audio or video issues here whatsoever so far, including in spots you mentioned.

Signal quality meter remain consistantly pegged ...

BTW, just a thought/suggestion, but you might want to wait a while and "log" your dropouts in a single post, or edit a post .....

BTW, just a thought/suggestion, but you might want to wait a while and "log" your dropouts in a single post, or edit a post .....

Yeah...I thought of that...I think enough has been "logged" as it is...;)

I will be interested in the readings y'all get...

I also have TSPE, but will post the m2r log in the first instance as I'm more familiar with that one...

Oops! Turns out I didn't extend the cap I had scheduled for 4:30~5:30pm. I started another one at 5:36pm, I may not let it run the 2 hours I have it set for though - and it might be effected by all the extensive disk activity and multitasking I've been doing since then, and probably won't be of much use anyway, as I don't think this one for 4:30p~5:30pm is either for reasons noted below.

Nevertheless, Mpeg2repair error log for the 4:30~5:30pm cap from WLWT included in attached zip file... What a mess -- Don't think you can pay any attention to it, and I would not be surprised if you get NO errors on yours(because for example, I saw/heard no glitches whatsoever when watching it "live" on another receiver between 4:45pm and current(6:19pm as of this edit) ...

I'll have to do some further checking, But I think all the errors in it is because I've got "other problems" here with the "HTPC", currently - Such as may need to reseat the cap card or, given for a long time I didn't even have MCE set up and recently did set it back up --- due to something previous I'd experienced with this, I'm not sure, but think it could possibly be that MCE may be trying to "take control" of the tuner at certian times or similar (even though I have nothing set to record via MCE) ...

as #1). I've been watching closely since 4:45 pm and there were NO dropouts, and 2). there are just way too many of them, usually I get NONE from any station in area I'm capping except regarding the belwo :

Note: If the tuner card wasn't already "tuned" to the station I'm capping, I *allways* get errors right at the very first second or so of the cap with this particular capping software. And I *allways* get error at very last second of any cap -- regardless of station/etc. Think this just has to do with things "syncing up" for the start and end of the cap, and it's never been an issue ...

In other words, I can't be sure whether the attached error log meaningful, and I suspect it isn't --- probably can't pay any attention to this whatsoever regarding any potential possible issue at WLWT, or to "compare" to your log, --- When I have time, I'll have to do some troubleshooting(and checking caps from other stations) to see what's going on here, before I might be able to provide something "useful" for such logs, which might take me quite a while ....

Oh -- I'm running a scan in TSPE currently on it -- but I'm not posting any error log from it because of the above, and because it's apparent the "entire" TS is effected(all the streams - as you'd get with "reception" dropout or if my card needed to be reseated/etc), not just the "channel" 5.1 streams ...


I think there's some mileage in that comment about something 'dirty' in the RF stream.


Sorry right now I can't be much help in trying to figure that out -- Nothing regarding my signal quality readings or what I'm getting on my "other receivers" seems to indicate there is anything wrong -- and right now, the issues I'm having with the ATSC capture card, and all those "errors" in the attached log file) for PC I think are on my end(and not reception related issues)

But, If something is going on with that, there are just so many things that could cause it, and I wouldn't want to assume anything ... As just one example, Even WCET-DT on 1st adjacent channel having problems with their emission mask / issues with exciter/ adaptive pre-corrections could probably cause issues, although that sort of issues would cause "signal quality meters" on receivers to lower, along with the "dropouts"/glitches .....

Sorry for the multiple posts, didn't think a edit of the last one would work well

Bluestraw+anyone else interested :

Ok, the 5:36~7:36pm WLWT cap turned out a lot cleaner here, and perhaps *may* be more useful ...

M2R and TSPE error logs attached ... Disregard the first 3 continuity errors from TSPE, and the last error reported in the M2R log -- those are issues with the cap software as explained earlier ..

Currently, for the same reasons mentioned in last post, even though there are only a couple per hour --- I'm still also especially not sure whether any of the ones reported as continuity(or discontinuity) errors are issues I'm having on my end, with the PC currently, as I'm quite certian I'm not getting "reception related" dropouts from them, even for the PC card's tuner --- *

Anyway, probably still due to issue here, but I thought for this cap, since there are relatively few of them, I'd go ahead and post it so if errors or dropouts happened at the same time for someone else, perhaps the info might be of some use ....

Except the one we are "ignoring" at the very start(because it's an issue with the cap software starting the TS file "cleanly" lets say) It may be interesting to note that the TSPE log only shows errors for the Video streams in the same "spots"(the offset in the file is only a bit different because they're different packets) 5.1's video stream is at 0x0051, 5.2 is at 0x0061 .... When you have a "reception dropout" for instance(and when I had the issue with the card needing to be reseated), it's usually the case that more, or even all of the streams are effected, including all the audio streams(0x0054 for 5.1, 0x0064 for 5.2) , and involving the PSIP streams(such as for the EITs), and even sometimes for the PID's for the other various PSIP tables, or the null packet stream ...

Anyway, for convienience, for the ones listed in the M2R error log, Here's the "actual" approximate times these occured -- Note - can't get this to the exact second, as even though I started the cap, per PC clock set via the internet to whatever source windoze uses, the cap software starts it a few seconds or so different - earlier I think ) :

Actual Time : About 5:59:22 PM EST :

Sequence Frame 40956(2-I) / Time 0:23:22 :
VideoWarning: Discontinuity of (11+) packet(s). First packet ending at offset 3401551304
Additional error(s) detected. Increase VerboseLogLevel in INI file for details.
FileInfo: Last video errors span 1084 bytes at file offset 3401549978

Actual Time : About 6:32:35 PM :

Sequence Frame 99423(11-P) / Time 0:56:35 :
VideoWarning: Discontinuity of (11+) packet(s). First packet ending at offset 8232334632
Additional error(s) detected. Increase VerboseLogLevel in INI file for details.
FileInfo: Last video errors span 35 bytes at file offset 8232334941

Actual Time : About 7:04:22 PM :

Sequence Frame 155076(2-I) / Time 1:28:22 :
VideoError: MPEG2 Intra DCT coefficient index out of bounds. MBA=2968(1408,384)
Additional error(s) detected. Increase VerboseLogLevel in INI file for details.
FileInfo: Last video errors span 637 bytes at file offset 12854151905

Sequence Frame 155079(5-P) / Time 1:28:22 :
VideoError: DMV motion prediction not supported. MBA=1270(1120,160)
Additional error(s) detected. Increase VerboseLogLevel in INI file for details.
FileInfo: Last video errors span 1074 bytes at file offset 12854475662

About 7:04:25 PM :

Sequence Frame 155169(8-P) / Time 1:28:25 :
VideoWarning: Discontinuity of (14+) packet(s). First packet ending at offset 12862189952
Additional error(s) detected. Increase VerboseLogLevel in INI file for details.
FileInfo: Last video errors span 186 bytes at file offset 12862189774

===============================

* - I do know though in the past, for what I had checked(which was a fair amount) I haven't gotten any of the dis/continuity or TEI errors that I can recall when capping from WLWT -- or for the most part any other local station for that matter -- exceptions being :

1). A little Over a year ago when reseating my cap card fixed the issue, and 2). once when I had "auto disk defrag" or (whatever it's called)was turned on via WinRegistry and the defrag process started in the middle of a cap, and 3)(. when I was first setting up "HTPC" a couple of years back -- I never quite figured out what happened then, I thought maybe because of something weird going on with MCE trying to use the ATSC tuner when it wasn't supposed to, but I wasn't able to confirm that, It might also have been the disk defrag starting in the middle of a cap, as I recall I changed a number of things and then the errors just "went away" ...

I have however ran across some other errors (that aren't discontinuity or TEI errors) as reported by Mpeg2repair from time to time, but they've never seemed to cause any issues -- well, other than involving #1)corrupted AC3 frames, and those have been very rare, or 2). timestamp gaps regarding some demuxers(for pre-proecessing before reencoding) other demuxers handled those fine.

And, I had assumed(perhaps incorrectly) those sorts of errors (such as invalid slice errors, motion vector out of range errors/etc) were encoding specific issues .. As for instance, It seems to be the case I'll see the exact same errors every now and then in a "station" specific way, in some cases seemingly in a "flexicoder" sort of way ... I don't think I've ever seen any of those (until now) from WLWT, though ....

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Update : Added/attached M2R log for 5.2 --- Notice the continuity errors(and the invalid huffman code at end which can be disregarded) for the video stream match with the 5.1 MPR log and TSPE log ... Again, those could very well be due to issues on my end(I don't think reception related though) .... But, the other errors(of the sort I assumed were encoding errors which would be specific to the encoder used for 5.1 in this case) aren't there ....

If Bluestraw was capping at the time those (not discontiunity errors) occured on 5.1 (not 5.2), I'm especially interested if his M2R log shows those occuring at the same time ... I'm thinking they very well might be in there, but I don't think they'd really necessarily be unusual, as I've ran into these sorts of errors from time to time (but from other stations), occuring infrequently ...

I am just getting caught up reading this thread, but I guess I'm a little surprised to see that some are having "issue" with WLWT-DT. 80-90% of the TV I watch is from WLWT-DT, and I can't remember EVER having a dropout of any kind (other than when it would be expected such as if I am "messing" with equipment/stuff). I will try to keep my eye on it to see if I can notice anything.

I also will be recording Chuck and Heroes tonight as usual, so if there is anything I can do with those captures to help please let me know.

Jeff, All,

By comparing my log from last night with Jeff's, I am more certain that there IS something fundamentally wrong with the WLWT stream. See below my m2r log from the overlapping part of my cap with Jeff's:

Sequence Frame 107583(2-I) / Time 1:01:46 : AROUND 5.59.15
VideoWarning: Discontinuity of (11+) packet(s). First packet ending at offset 8985534459
VideoError: MPEG2 Intra DCT coefficient index out of bounds. MBA=1087(112,144)
VideoError: Failed to decode macroblock at MBA=1087(112,144)
FileInfo: Last video errors span 1084 bytes at file offset 8985533133

Sequence Frame 166050(11-P) / Time 1:34:59 : AROUND 6.32.30
VideoWarning: Discontinuity of (11+) packet(s). First packet ending at offset 13816317787
VideoError: Missing 143 slice macroblocks at MBA=1777(1552,224)
VideoError: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=1775(1520,224)
FileInfo: Last video errors span 35 bytes at file offset 13816318096
FileInfo: Last video errors span 1 bytes at file offset 13816320185
Look not only at the matching timestamps, but also in the number of bytes of 'video errors'. Since reception 'glitches' which are caused by antennas / equipment would manifest themselves in many different ways, I think the same 'glitches' in the video stream are too much of a coincidence.

Jeff - perhaps you could turn on the 'verbose' option in the m2r options (ini file) so that for tonight's Heroes we have an even more direct comparison between us? Of course the 'more the merrier' for tonight's experiment...

I also will be recording Chuck and Heroes tonight as usual, so if there is anything I can do with those captures to help please let me know.

No Chuck tonite due to Presidential address at 8pm.

Bluestraw,

First, Given that it looks like you started your cap around 4:57~4:58 PM -- I take it you didn't get a bunch of errors between 4:57~5:03pm ( about 0 to 5 or 6 minutes for your time stamps) I had in my 4:30~5:30pm cap between about 4:54pm~5:03PM (24:10~32:58 in my 4:30 log file). ?

I'm pretty sure those were "specifically" on my end, and therefore not useful involving trying to figure out what's going on with WLWT, ---- but "just in case", it would be helpful for me to know "for sure" that someone else did or did not get those as well ....

Thanks !


Also, I also capped "XIII" last night - logs attached to this message - started cap at 9:01PM - and yeah, missed the first minute. This time, one of the errors involved the telecine flags (unexpected TFF/RFF flag change), probably I'd guess meaning the field order was changed unexpectedly, perhaps because there was corrupted data during error for a TFF/RFF flag for a field that was "missed" so to speak ....

Jeff, All,
By comparing my log from last night with Jeff's, I am more certain that there IS something fundamentally wrong with the WLWT stream.


Yeah, I agree. Comparing the caps seems to confirm it. Otherwise, I see no way how out of billions of bytes, an error involving 35 bytes would occur at (likely) the same time for both of us -- I wish M2R would report the PTS Timestamps though, then we wouldn't need to try to "sync up" the times our caps started and the timestamps it does report.

I also kinda "Mostly" came to that conclusion(in addition to more or less the same thing going on with the 5:30~:30pm Pro bowl cap) last night when comparing the TSPE logs, and M2R logs (5.1 and 5.2) for the XIII cap. As it seems a little too "common" that only "certian" streams are effected, rather than for example, all or at least more of the packets getting "disrupted" in other streams, such as audio streams or PSIP EIT streams, as would be likely to happen during a "full bore" reception related dropout, when SNR drops below what is required to decode anything (below about 15dB NR) ...

But, I was still thrown by what happened with all the errors(was assuming those were on my end, but still not likely to be "reception related") during my 4:30~5:30 cap, and wasn't sure whether or not some of the errors in the later cap were also on my "end" ..

But I think as is specific to my later cap and when we were both capping at the same time, you're logs confirm they weren't ....


Look not only at the matching timestamps, but also in the number of bytes of 'video errors'. Since reception 'glitches' which are caused by antennas / equipment would manifest themselves in many different ways, I think the same 'glitches' in the video stream are too much of a coincidence.


Most definitely. Also, Given I'm(we're presumably) not specifically seeing *only* errors with the 5.1 video stream(therefore it doesn't seem specific to "only" the HD encoder), but also not seeing errors occur in each circumstance for EVERY stream(such as say when there's a glitch in the 5.1 Video stream but not the audio stream), and that I saw no "glitches" during the times the logged errors occured when I was monitoring "live" with another receiver ---- I also don't think the issue involves their RF signal, and instead, seems specific to something in their Transport stream(the "data" included within the signal, not the signal being send "over the airwaves" itself) ....

However -- So far (except for the likely "on my end" issues between 4:54~5:03pm) --- TSPE and M2R (for 5.1 and 5.2), for the 5:36~7:36pm cap AND the 9:01~11:01pm cap --- I've only had errors reported for the following streams, with most errors being specific to the 5.1 and/or 5.2 video streams :

5.1 HD video - PID at 0x0061
5.2 Video - PID at 0x0061

Only 1 error each, both during my cap of "XIII" last night in following streams :

PMT for Program #1 - PID at 0x0050 - Note : This one "coincided" with errors in 5.1 and 5.2 video streams.

PID "shared" by the PSIP tables at 0x1ffb - Note: This one "coincided"(more or less) with errors in 5.1 and 5.2's video streams ...

At this point, just a guess, but I'm wondering if they might be having an issue involving their STL or the Multiplexing or even involving the stat mux .... It wouldn't seem apparent that a STL issue would be involved(probably isn't the more I think about it), given you might expect to see an error pop up now and then for any stream in the mux --- but of course there are a lot more packets of data in the Video streams than the other streams, therefore seeing errors in the other streams might occur more rarely ... Although, if that were the case, one would expect to see a error from the audio streams pop up every now and then .....

And, I don't know if they are doing anything "at the transmitter" instead of at the studio, the PSIP generator could be in either location, for instance ....


Jeff - perhaps you could turn on the 'verbose' option in the m2r options (ini file) so that for tonight's Heroes we have an even more direct comparison between us? Of course the 'more the merrier' for tonight's experiment...

Certianly. I haven't/won't have a chance to do any troubleshooting regarding all those errors(likely on my end, but then again, maybe not) I had during the 4:30pm~5:30pm cap, so if I get one of "those" again, it probably won't be of much use ....

Anyway, I'd had it turned on at one point, but set "verboseloglevel=0" on that occasion about a year ago when I was troubleshooting and getting all sorts of errors for any source, which turned out to be caused because I needed to reseat the Cap card, and hadn't changed turned it back on since ....

Of course, a WLWT engineer might "reboot" something today on his Monday morning rounds, and we may see no issues tonight .... ;)

No Chuck tonite due to Presidential address at 8pm.Dang... forgot about that. I knew there was something about that guy I didn't like. ;)

So as far as the capture for tonight goes, I will still get Heroes. My BeyondTV recordings pad 3 minutes each way from the listed start/stop times. What are we doing to grab the pertinent info - just running the transport stream file through mpeg2 repair? I am not sure if I have the tool so if someone has a download link (and I apologize if it's already been provided) could you please post it?