Cincinnati, OH - HDTV [Text View] - Page 45

rvillalvag

04-06-09, 05:14 PM

Splicer010

04-06-09, 05:43 PM

WCPO-DT is now exhibiting the same audio dropouts as WLWT-DT did before they fixed their problem...This has become increasingly noticeable during tonights 5-6:30PM local news...:mad:

Can anyone run a check to see if any continuity errors are occuring???

ThoraX695

04-06-09, 06:19 PM

To a Broadcast Engineer, "Going HD" is not an event, it is a process.

I can imagine how complex things can get with the combination of old and new systems and having to have something reliable to fall back on that just has to work no matter what during emergencies.

WKRC just turned 60. So we'll give you guys until 2069 to work out the HD bugs. :D

P.S. Speaking of turning 60, you guys should bring back Bowling For Dollars (http://www.local12.com/content/mediacenter/12vault/12_videovault.aspx?articleID=38812). But this time around, it will be Wii bowling. ;)

ThoraX695

04-06-09, 06:26 PM

Bubster

04-06-09, 11:07 PM

I just spent a good 30 minutes at the bowling for dollars link checking out the old films from WKRC's vault. That was cool, thanks for the link!

jimp2244

04-07-09, 08:38 AM

Hello everyone. Thanks for all the info you've been posting. Its helped me figure out some issues with Digital OTA reception. I wanted some suggestions from you on an indoor antenna. I live in Northern Kentucky, near Amsterdam Road close to Park Hills, on the second floor of a three-floor apartment building. I have two rabbit ears antennae with UHF loop hooked up via a splitter (a really cheap black one and a better Phillips with an amplifier, which I keep typically off or at its lowest setting) but keep having trouble with reception, particularly with Fox, My64 and the PBS channels (especially 14 and 48). I keep moving them around but cannot seem to get a good picture consistently for those channels. Fox is especially difficult. Even when getting it fairly close to a window, it poses a problem.

I was looking for a not overly expensive option that I could try out to improve the signal and hopefully be not too cluttery. I have to stick to an indoor antenna because of living in an apartment. Any suggestions? Being able to return the antenna in case it doesn't work would be important. I found this omnidirectional antenna in Walmart. Would something like this work?

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9906712

Thanks!The "omnidirectional antenna" you linked to is probably just a UHF loop covered in plastic (so worse than the UHF loop you already have).

Probably your best bet is one similar to the Silver Sensor style. You can probably pick one up at a local store like Best Buy, but here is a link to an example. Some models will also have VHF "rabbit ears" as part of the antenna as well, but I don't believe the one below does. WCPO-DT is and WKRC-DT soon will be on VHF.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=PH-DTV1

Getting the antenna near a north-facing window is probably one of the best things you can do, if possible.

Paul210

04-07-09, 09:35 AM

Wow, I have to say I am surprised.

I am a sports fan but not a baseball fan for the most part. When I was younger I used to join my friends for opening day festivities simply because it was a fun thing to do, and, I was young. For years now I have not watched or gone to an opening day game simply because it interfered with work and I wasn't that much of a baseball fan to care. Now that I am a victim of the economy I figured, heck, I'll watch the reds game today.

I never dreamed the day would come when I needed cable service to watch opening day! How disappointing!

How long has it been since opening day hasn't been on one of the local stations?

I'm not sure how long it's been, but that's just one reason I don't follow major league baseball that much anymore. They took it away from the common man in favor of the almighty dollar. They might have gained some dollars moving it over to a cable network but I wonder how many people stopped following it, and hence, stopped buying tickets? Perhaps that's wishful thinking on my part.

Where's Marge when you need her? ;)

It seems the minor league is still focused on good, affordable family entertainment. Ever been to a Dragon's game?

Sorry if I've been too far off-topic for this thread.

rvillalvag

04-07-09, 11:45 AM

Usually those flat omnidirectional antennas don't work well. How do the analog stations look? Is there a lot of ghosting?

Can you please go to tvfool.com (http://www.tvfool.com/), enter your information in the Signal Analysis Tool, and post the results? You should be able to get away with an unamplified pair of rabbit ears and a loop. But you may have to go with something a little more directional if there's a lot of multipath.

Thanks for your help. In the analog channels, I see quite a bit of ghosting on Fox, which is one which I have quite a bit of trouble. It is also very difficult to get My64 well, especially at the same orientation than Fox.

I attach images of the data you requested.

rvillalvag

04-07-09, 11:57 AM

The "omnidirectional antenna" you linked to is probably just a UHF loop covered in plastic (so worse than the UHF loop you already have).

Probably your best bet is one similar to the Silver Sensor style. You can probably pick one up at a local store like Best Buy, but here is a link to an example. Some models will also have VHF "rabbit ears" as part of the antenna as well, but I don't believe the one below does. WCPO-DT is and WKRC-DT soon will be on VHF.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=PH-DTV1

Getting the antenna near a north-facing window is probably one of the best things you can do, if possible.

If I use the antenna you mentioned, should I also connect a rabbit ears then? Will a splitter (used backward) do the trick? Also, I posted the report from tvfool, and saw that the main signals are being picked up in a in a range of directions of about 30 deg. Is there a way that one can set up this (or a combination of antennas) so that they tend to pick up most of the local channels (mostly interested in the four major networks, my network TV, and PBS channels 14 and 48).

I also saw this other antenna: http://www.terrestrial-digital.com/DB2.html

It seems to me that I can mount it indoor on top of a bookshelf. Would it be better/worse than your suggestion?

By the way, the windows on my apartment apparently are not helping at all. They are facing mostly south, at a heading of about 170 deg.

Any suggestions?

jimp2244

04-07-09, 12:15 PM

If I use the antenna you mentioned, should I also connect a rabbit ears then? Will a splitter (used backward) do the trick?You could try without the rabbit ears first, and add them in if you have trouble with WCPO-DT (or WKRC-DT after June 12). The splitter should work in reverse. Also as I noted earlier some models of the Silver Sensor "log periodic" style antennas have built-in rabbit ears as well. Also, I posted the report from tvfool, and saw that the main signals are being picked up in a in a range of directions of about 30 deg. Is there a way that one can set up this (or a combination of antennas) so that they tend to pick up most of the local channels (mostly interested in the four major networks, my network TV, and PBS channels 14 and 48).In your case it's going to be tough. Since you have no north-facing windows, it's almost certain that any signal you receive is going to be a reflection and not the original. The signal may "bounce" of many different things and those my end up at your antenna at slightly different times and strengths, causing the "ghosting" on analog, which indicates multipath and can cause drop outs on digital. Usually, more directivity is better to reject multipath, but again in your case it will be tough because you have a 30 degree spread.

In addition to the antenna, some ATSC tuners are better than others. I've used some that choke with just about any instance of multipath, and others that can withstand almost anything. If you or a friend/neighbor has one of the Zenith DTV converter boxes you may want to plug that in and see what your results are. It won't be HD but it will show you what a good tuner can do and if it does much better than your TV's tuner then you may have found a potential weakness.

I also saw this other antenna: http://www.terrestrial-digital.com/DB2.html

It seems to me that I can mount it indoor on top of a bookshelf. Would it be better/worse than your suggestion?DB2 is a good antenna as well and worth a try.

Any suggestions?Best thing I can suggest is to try the Silver Sensor style or DB2 as you suggested. Get a longer length of Coax and just try moving the antenna around the room. Moving it physically may have more impactful results than simply turning it.

robmadden1

04-07-09, 04:09 PM

RTN is now on 25.3.

blbrodbeck

04-07-09, 07:07 PM

RTN 25-3

http://www.myretrotv.com/

Ch 25 has some good shows. Now one of my favorite OTA channels (& Sub-Channels).
I wonder when WBQC will go digital, & if they'll have different channels. Some people around town have trouble getting WOTH digital channels. I'm hoping WBQC digital channels will be easier to receive, since their analogue signal was always easier to receive. I suppose there are different levels of Power used by these Lo-Power Stations.

robmadden1

04-07-09, 07:18 PM

I love Knight Rider the original (the new one too).

Splicer010

04-07-09, 07:28 PM

Simply LOVE the RTN programming on 25-3!!!:D

But WHY is the picture so washed out looking compared to the RTN website page of the shows???

Splicer010

04-07-09, 07:30 PM

I love Knight Rider the original (the new one too).

The new one is SO unrealistic...;)

robmadden1

04-07-09, 07:46 PM

I think its just the nature of how they broadcast on 25 not necessarily the channels they show. It looks this way on all subs but 25.4 is the worst.

ThoraX695

04-07-09, 07:55 PM

I just saw an RTV logo on top of the shot of the Cincinnati skyline on 25.3. :)

I wonder when WBQC will go digital, & if they'll have different channels. Some people around town have trouble getting WOTH digital channels. I'm hoping WBQC digital channels will be easier to receive, since their analogue signal was always easier to receive. I suppose there are different levels of Power used by these Lo-Power Stations.

It may be difficult to get a better digital transmission signal for WOTH on RF 47. RF 47 is co-channel with WAVE in Louisville. And I imagine that the FCC will give WAVE priority not only because it's a full-power station, but they're also giving up analog 3 and its corresponding Lo-VHF coverage area.

513Tech

04-07-09, 09:04 PM

Dang nab it rabbit ears was out of place. Had to do a rescan to get 25.1-25.4 back.

RTN is like watching programs from my childhood again. Now we need is for RTN to buy the Mid South Wrestling Collection to make Saturdays complete.

jdhughes63

04-07-09, 10:40 PM

And once again WKRC drops out of HD during a good show. At 1030 during "Without a Trace". Not the networks fault. WHIO is getting an HD picture

spikor

04-07-09, 10:52 PM

Since I cannot get 25 it is listed as CW what is on the Subchannels Wish I could get it due to RTN being on 25.3 from what I read on here. I can get the CW on 12.2 so they must feed it to WKRC and in turn Broadcast it over 12.2 IF I was closer as around Augusta or Foster or probably closer to Cincy due to it being Low Power I could probably pull it in. A Couple of weeks ago I put up a Winegard 8200U with a AP8275 and can get alot more Cincy Stations now except for 64 ( And 25 due to it being to Low on power to reach out this Far) I live on the Edge of the Mason Lewis Line a few Miles into Lewis County. I know picking up anything this far it is running right on the edge of just getting it or not getting it at all. I have been talking to a Guy that I know and alot of people tells him before 64 switched to all Digital they could receive it but now cannot. They do have a UHF/VHF antenna and they nudge it ( the Antenna ) just a smidgen at a time to see if they can pick it up and nudge it a little more and so on etc. but no luck at all. They live in Mason Co. and Maysville Area. Others live in Bracken Co. and cannot get it as well. be nice IF someone can post a link where I can print out a Map to take and compare with these people on where they live at comparing it to the Map and how far each Stations contour or signal reaches out to. So they can decide on what Antenna they need to get to receive them. OR IF it is just a Waste of time and effort because what they do they might not be able to pick them up. I know it can be as easy as their Antenna and their Setup. Because over the years I had a VU190 from radio Shack it was pretty darn good until the Ice Storm a Few years or so back the Ice took care of it. Had a CM3671 not as good as the Radio Shack one just say it had its days. Have a Philips nothing to brag about but it does pick up Lexington tho. maybe IF I could get it up 10 more feet or so it would might pick up what I am getting with the Winegard 8200U it is up nearly 40 or so feet compared to 32 or so on the Philips. Cannot get the extra 10 on the Philips yet might work on it later on. But since I am getting all of the Cincys with the Winegard 8200U ( Minus 64 ) and the Low Power 25 ( I will have to be 35-40 Miles West to have a shot at it )why flirt with Danger. IF I do not need to I am not going to tweek it. So IF anyone can post the Links for a Contour Map I guess that is what you call it for each station Comparing how far the Stations signal might reach and as far as where they live and they can make their judgement. So IF you can link me to the Maps I will print them. I need all of Cincy or 5,9,12,14,19,25,48,64 or anything else I might missed. Can you post lexington as well. 18,27,36,56 and Ket's and 67 there are alot of people in the Surrounding areas that rely on those just as Much as people rely on Cincy. Do not worry about Huntington/Charleston you have to Stand on your head to reach those where I live but I can pick up 3 tho.

spikor

04-08-09, 08:50 AM

No need to add contour maps i found one and kept on switching the call letters to print them.

tvnick

04-09-09, 09:51 AM

Wow, I have to say I am surprised.

I am a sports fan but not a baseball fan for the most part. When I was younger I used to join my friends for opening day festivities simply because it was a fun thing to do, and, I was young. For years now I have not watched or gone to an opening day game simply because it interfered with work and I wasn't that much of a baseball fan to care. Now that I am a victim of the economy I figured, heck, I'll watch the reds game today.

I never dreamed the day would come when I needed cable service to watch opening day! How disappointing!

How long has it been since opening day hasn't been on one of the local stations?

1998 was the last year Red's games were broadcast over the air, by WSTR. They did a limited number of games for a few years after WLW gave them up.

By the way, it wasn't greed on the part of the Reds to move to cable. No local station could air the games and make a profit so they were very happy when Fox Ohio took the games.

jim tressler

04-09-09, 10:14 AM

was last nights game in hd on any of the cable outlets? directv had it in sd only

Bill R (# 2)

04-09-09, 11:02 AM

was last nights game in hd on any of the cable outlets? directv had it in sd only

Jim,

No, last night's game was not in HD. Here is Fox Sports TV schedule for 2009 (HD games in bold: http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5585048

The next game in HD is Saturday, 4/11.

blbrodbeck

04-09-09, 05:09 PM

It looks like CH 25 has quit airing Whitesprings TV. Last night they had the Skyline shot back, & now they have Jewelry TV shopping channel. Maybe Whitesprings might become 25-5 "Classic TV".

Bubster

04-09-09, 05:14 PM

1998 was the last year Red's games were broadcast over the air, by WSTR. They did a limited number of games for a few years after WLW gave them up.

By the way, it wasn't greed on the part of the Reds to move to cable. No local station could air the games and make a profit so they were very happy when Fox Ohio took the games.

I was referring to opening day specifically. I thought one of the locals usually picked up the parades and the game.

robmadden1

04-09-09, 06:26 PM

They fixed the audio on 25.2. For the first time ever I get stereo audio and not mono.

ThoraX695

04-09-09, 09:17 PM

They fixed the audio on 25.2. For the first time ever I get stereo audio and not mono.

Yes, it's Dolby Digital 2.0 now. Ah, Matlock in stereo. :) Great job, WOTH!

Side note: Fox 19 had a smaller bug for Bones tonight. I guess most of the stations use larger bugs for their SD content and their smaller bugs for HD content.

robmadden1

04-09-09, 11:02 PM

What would be even better RTN in Dolby Digital 2.0.

Nitewatchman

04-10-09, 12:50 AM

WHIO is airing 15 Dayton Dragons games on 7.2 this year (including Tonight), this says they have a deal through 2011 :

http://www.whiotv.com/sports/18969001/detail.html

Noticed plenty of local ads running when I checked it out tonight ....

jimp2244

04-10-09, 08:02 AM

I was referring to opening day specifically. I thought one of the locals usually picked up the parades and the game.WLWT has shown the opening day parade for at least the past several years. I can't remember the last time the actual opening day game was on broadcast TV though. When I dropped cable about 2.5 years ago one of the only things I really missed were the Reds games on FSN. I hold out hope that they will return to broadcast TV some day. I think DTV brings more options for this and so I hope someone at the Reds organization and perhaps a local station realizes this.

Fox 19 had a smaller bug for Bones tonight. I guess most of the stations use larger bugs for their SD content and their smaller bugs for HD content.During FOX programming, local stations choose a bug that is inserted by the FOX splicer. There are specific size and position requirements for the logo. During local programming the station does what it wants and inserts the bug itself.

wkrp

04-10-09, 09:33 AM

Yes, it's Dolby Digital 2.0 now. Ah, Matlock in stereo. :) Great job, WOTH!

Side note: Fox 19 had a smaller bug for Bones tonight. I guess most of the stations use larger bugs for their SD content and their smaller bugs for HD content.

It was our great audio tech, Shane.

Elliott

jim tressler

04-10-09, 09:42 AM

elliot block - welcome! What can you do to get your guide data into directv for those of us with OTA tuners on our directv HD recievers?

Bill R (# 2)

04-10-09, 10:43 AM

It was our great audio tech, Shane.

Elliott

Elliott,

Good to see you post here.

Could you give us an update of what your plans are for the future (what programming will be on which channels)? Also, when are your stations going to provide (PSIP) guide information?

Thanks

rvillalvag

04-10-09, 11:22 AM

Best thing I can suggest is to try the Silver Sensor style or DB2 as you suggested. Get a longer length of Coax and just try moving the antenna around the room. Moving it physically may have more impactful results than simply turning it.

Ok, sounds like something I want to try. I want to figure out which one to try out first, especially because they look so different. Is there a situation in which one may be better than the other? The Phillips one seems to be a directional one, and the DB2 a multidirectional, although I may be wrong.

Also, no gain is quoted on the Phillips page (although Amazon mentions 11.4 dB). the DB2 antenna also is quoted at 11.4 dB at their website. Any comments regarding this?

Thanks!

wkrp

04-10-09, 12:25 PM

PSIP, what is that?
Just kidding, we don't have to have PSIP on any of our stations.
However, we just moved all our digital equipment from our transmitter site to our studio.
With this move we can do alot more with our channels. As you can see we added RTN, we pulling it in off a 12' foot dish, whitch we didn't have at the transmitter site.
Back to the PSIP question, the NAB is the 19th of this month, the vendors for the equipment to add PSIP to our program stream will all be there, I'll be talking to them.
Titan TV will have our programing in a couple weeks. As for TV guide we called dozens of time and get the run-a-round, they have the data but they are sitting on it, give them a call and request it. WKRC broadcasts it your OTA boxes like, TVpal, and Dish network, look for the TV guide logo.
We will have 5 streams up by June 12th. Again, I'm talking to several programmers about it, even meet some at the NAB.
The equipment we used for White Spring will be back up in a couple days.

Elliott

ShaneWKRP

04-10-09, 12:30 PM

What would be even better RTN in Dolby Digital 2.0.

I hear you. Unfortunately, RTN only supplies a mono program source. If it was currently available in stereo, we'd be more than happy to get it to you that way. I think RTN is really cool.

ShaneWKRP

04-10-09, 12:35 PM

They fixed the audio on 25.2. For the first time ever I get stereo audio and not mono.

Glad you noticed. I've been chasing that demon for a little while now, and have FINALLY had the opportunity to fix it. Thanks to everyone for bearing with all the stations throughout the complications of the digital transition. It's great to know our efforts are being noticed!

-Shane

jimp2244

04-10-09, 02:12 PM

Ok, sounds like something I want to try. I want to figure out which one to try out first, especially because they look so different. Is there a situation in which one may be better than the other? The Phillips one seems to be a directional one, and the DB2 a multidirectional, although I may be wrong.

Also, no gain is quoted on the Phillips page (although Amazon mentions 11.4 dB). the DB2 antenna also is quoted at 11.4 dB at their website. Any comments regarding this?

Thanks!
More directional generally is better at rejecting multipath. I believe the DB2 is somewhat "bi-directional" meaning front and back are pretty strong but sides are not as much. Perhaps your best option is to grab a silver sensor style from a local store and try it, since that would be the easiest to return.

ThoraX695

04-10-09, 04:35 PM

wkrp

04-10-09, 05:56 PM

Elliott and Shane,

Thanks for the peak behind the WOTH curtain. (No wonder it was hard to fix some of these bugs since most of your equipment was at the transmitter!) Keep up the good work, and we we'll keep patiently watching the LP DTV revolution. :)

(Speaking of Titan TV, I had to manually add WOTH digital channel 47 to my Titan TV guide a few months ago. 25.1 and 25.2 show up as "WBQCDT1" and "WBQCDT2" respectively.)

I just check with Matt Gray our station mgr., last week Titan Tv ask us "what each subchannel should be call" so hopefully it will be correct soon, you also might check out our web site wkrp.tv for the current schedule.

Today Shane, known around here as "Mr. Audio", was going over all the audio levels, I think hes got it.
We will be setting up the 5th encoder next week, so you should see 25.5 soon.

Elliott

ThoraX695

04-10-09, 06:53 PM

Today Shane, known around here as "Mr. Audio", was going over all the audio levels, I think hes got it.

Yes. It looks like 25.1, 25.2, and 25.4 (now "JTV") are sending Dolby Digital 2/0 while 25.3 is sending 1/0. And the volume levels do sound a lot more consistent than they did last night.

spikor

04-10-09, 10:02 PM

ncincy1

04-10-09, 10:05 PM

this is awesome - best of luck (we will be promoting the heck out of this)

wkrp

04-11-09, 04:57 PM

Will 25 get more power to go from a Low power Station to a Full Power Station Looks like you only get to somewhere around Foster in Bracken Co. Any Plans to reach out further say like 5,9,12's pattern? Be nice. IF the Big Guys Approve (FCC)

We are running the legal max. for LPTV stations.

FYI, there is a loop hole in the FCC rules, the max power is in the horizonal plane of the antenna, we are running CP, so we can run twice the ERP (30Kw) off our antenna. This should help those with "rabbit ear" antennas.

Here is a link to the FCC coverage map (51Dbu) contour. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1282207.html

Elliott

robmadden1

04-11-09, 06:38 PM

Anyone notice the scrolling faint lines on 25.2 like I do? I also notice it on anolog 38.

Splicer010

04-11-09, 08:06 PM

Anyone notice the scrolling faint lines on 25.2 like I do? I also notice it on anolog 38.

No...But the virtual channel 25 isn't showing and the real channel 47 is...

ncincy1

04-12-09, 07:12 PM

So, I'm watching WBDT (analog) here in northern Hamilton County (excellent signal) but still can't get WBDT (digital). Note: I have an attic mount antenna and get all other Dayton stations very well.

I see these new commercials on WBDT for the switch to digital only on June 12th and the announcement says "if you are in the northern Miami Valley viewing area you may experience issues with the signal after June 12 when WBDT-DT goes from digital channel 18 to digital channel 26.

The announcement goes on to say - and here's what I hope is good news - "we will be broadcasting at the maximum allowable power on June 12.

Sooo, does this mean the application for 770K was approved (or should be by then?)

If this is true then yippee! If not....:(

Inquiring minds would like to know. I want my CW in HD!!

blbrodbeck

04-12-09, 09:10 PM

jimp2244

04-13-09, 07:46 AM

I read someone's post here awhile ago that He took the reflector off of his attic antenna & it performed much better. I'm wondering if anyone else has tried this. In theory would this improve digital OTA reception. If so, why do they sell these with reflectors? I live in Northwestern Hamilton Co. I can get Dayton channels fringe. I'm still hopeful that I can get some Dayton channels, such as Ch. 26 on a regular basis.I believe this is referring to 4-bay or 8-bay bow tie setups. Removing the reflector on these will make the antenna less one-way directional and more bi-directional. So, instead of most of the gain being from the front (say 90% from the front and 10% to the back), it would be not quite as strong from the front AND the back (say 50% from the front and 50% from the back). The percentages I mention are just to illustrate the point and I'm sure they are not accurate, but you get the idea. The only time that this would be an improvement would be if one is trying to receive signals from both sides, for example someone right between the Dayton and Cincinnati towers (e.g. West Chester).

If you're trying to improve reception of Dayton stations, removing the reflector most likely will make things worse. Your best bet is to get an antenna with higher gain/more directivity, get the antenna higher, or (possibly) try adding a pre-amp.

1Cosmo1

04-13-09, 08:35 AM

1Cosmo1

04-13-09, 08:40 AM

Just wanted to add my voice to those annoyed by the bugs that appear at the bottom of the screen.
They most often obscure part of the programing and sometimes cover information essencial to the program.

Splicer010

04-13-09, 06:05 PM

As a continuing annoyance, the audio level increases with most every commercial (and PBS's "non-commercials").
I had hoped this would cease with DTV, but no.
When I purchased my new HDTV, I had hoped that the "automatic" level circuitry of the TV would take care of the problem, but no.
This happens on all (most?) of the channels, commercial or "public".
Why????

Not that this helps you but it might...

I agree and was in the same boat as you always scrambling for the remote...Well I bought a new AVR on an impulse and one of the features it has is called 'Dynamic Volume'...This thing is GRRRRRREAT!!!:D It keeps all volume levels the same on all channels...It is really cool...You can hear the feature actually raise or lower the volume automatically to the level you set...I won't watch my TV without it now...The amp is a Denon AVR-789 and the feature is an Audyssey Dynamic Volume in case you think this would be right for you...Any receiver that has Audyssey Dynamic Volume will work the same way...It does not have to be a Denon...But the 789 is being closed out to make room for next years model and can be had rather inexpensively now...http://www.audyssey.com/

ThoraX695

04-13-09, 06:47 PM

1Cosmo1

04-13-09, 09:03 PM

Is there a setting on your set that will force the audio to be level?

Yes, there is but it seems to have little/no effect.

Is there a reason (advertiser's wishes?) that broadcasters do this?

rvillalvag

04-14-09, 09:06 AM

Hi everyone,

As you've read, I've been trying to figure out the best antenna to get good reception at my place in Northern Kentucky, and got some good suggestions. Yesterday, after looking around the thread, I realized that unscrambled digital HD could be grabbed from cable. I have high speed internet from Insight Cable, and the bundle included their basic service. So yesterday, I did a channel scan using the digital cable QAM tuner in my HDTV, and sure enough, a bunch of channels popped up, including most of the local ones in HD and many blank ones (which I assume are scrambled). The channels appear to have the same number as their OTA counterparts. However, two notable exceptions showed up. I couldn't find 12.1 or 14.x channels. (Note: when I enter 12.1 directly, it switches to the channel and the resoultion is listed as 1080i, but no image is seen. If I enter 14.6, the channel changes to 14.1 at 1080i, but again, no image is seen). I'm also not sure where the CW showed up. I looked around the thread and found some QAM channel listings for insight, but they were older posts. Is there a post with the latest ones? Are the channels I'm missing available, or do I need an antenna to get them in HD? By the way, the insight guy never mentioned this was a possibility when he came to set this up in the new place... he said all channels would be SD.

Thanks!

jimp2244

04-14-09, 09:06 AM

Is there a reason (advertiser's wishes?) that broadcasters do this?Some of it is differences in "opinion" in standards and the rest is incompetence.

terryfoster

04-14-09, 10:00 AM

Some of it is differences in "opinion" in standards and the rest is incompetence.

This is simply not true. It all boils down to commercials using the maximum allowable volume and eliminating any dynamic range. The links below describe what's going on quite well.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17229281/

http://www.rd.com/living-healthy/why-are-tv-commercials-so-loud/article96931.html

Bill R (# 2)

04-14-09, 11:19 AM

robertjchambers

04-14-09, 02:04 PM

Elliot,

Do you have an estimated live date for WBQC-LD, and will it have the same programming on any of its' subchannels?

Also, does anyone (probably around Gallatin, Grant, Owen or Switzerland counties) have either PSIP or interference issues with WOTH-LD and WAVE-DT?
I'm in Oxford OH with a Winegard HD-7698P, and the tuner chokes on my Samsung LCD whenever I move the antenna between Louisville and Cincy. I have to re-scan every time for 3 or 25 to work, respectively. Even when I manually type in '47', it reverts to the channel found in the scan, and doesn't notice a different PSIP stream. My TiVo doesn't seem to have this problem, however.

microbob

04-14-09, 03:02 PM

I'm in Grant County and I can't get a lock on WOTH-LD 47. I do think the issue is with WAVE-DT also on Ch 47.

pjpjpjpj

04-14-09, 07:28 PM

Elliot,

Has any effort been made to get the program info into Zap2It.com's lineups? That's where my HTPC software gets its data.

Thanks, and thanks for reading this forum and giving us insight and info.

Nitewatchman

04-14-09, 08:46 PM

Was just nosing around a bit to see if I found anyone in this area sending ATSC M/H yet -- didn't see anything(but then again I haven't checked Columbus stations in a few weeks) --- But did notice WCET-DT now has the UpdateTV Streams (Sends firmware updates to some DTV's/DTV receivers) ....

Trip in VA

04-14-09, 08:59 PM

I doubt they're up yet with Mobile DTV. If they were, they'd probably be shouting from the rooftops promoting it.

Much like WRAL in Raleigh when they launched today or yesterday or whenever. They had a big press conference and whatnot for it and are promoting it by showing it on area buses. I've already received a raw transport stream capture for it.

Mobile DTV is also being shown on KVMY in Las Vegas right now for the NAB event next week. You can find a TSReader capture for it as an attachment in the Las Vegas thread.

- Trip

rvillalvag

04-15-09, 08:13 AM

I posted the list for Insight's clear QAM broadcast channels several months ago and, as for as I know, they haven't changed. You should be able to get WKRC-DT on 94.31 (mapped to 12.1). The CW (OTA 12.2) is on the analog tier on channel 25. Insight does not carry the HD feed of WPTO (14.x) or any of WPTO's subchannels. The analog feed of WPTO is on channel 14.

Thanks for the info... There is something not right with WKRC. When I enter 12.1, the info shows 1080i video, but I get a "failed to receive broadcast message", and the TV can't find channel 94.31. Could it be a signal strength issue? Is there anything I can ask the cable provider to do?

Thanks!

Bill R (# 2)

04-15-09, 10:06 AM

Thanks for the info... There is something not right with WKRC. When I enter 12.1, the info shows 1080i video, but I get a "failed to receive broadcast message", and the TV can't find channel 94.31. Could it be a signal strength issue? Is there anything I can ask the cable provider to do?

Thanks!

Yes, it could be a signal strength issue. And someone recently told me that his TV did not fine it on 94.31 but it was on a 94.xx channel. My HDTV shows the actual channel number that the cable company is sending it on and the channel that it is mapped to - the display looks like this - (94.31) 12.1. Some TVs don't display the true channel number, they only show the mapped channel number if a channel is mapped.

What does your TV show for 109.7? Channel 109.7 is WOTH (OTA 25.1) but is not mapped. Channel 109.10 is Insight's channel 1 (on their cable boxes) and is another unmapped channel. Both are clear QAM and you should be able to receive them.

1Cosmo1

04-15-09, 12:13 PM

This is simply not true. It all boils down to commercials using the maximum allowable volume and eliminating any dynamic range. The links below describe what's going on quite well.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17229281/

http://www.rd.com/living-healthy/why-are-tv-commercials-so-loud/article96931.html

Thanks for the info and the links, I found them very helpful.

I have started to record more programs so I can skip the commercials.

I know that the commercials are needed if we are to have "free" OTA TV but it's so annoying to have the remote always at the ready to mute or turn down the volume so you are not blasted right out of your seat.

Don't you all love the furnature (carpet?) guy that screams the whole commercial?

Bill R (# 2)

04-15-09, 03:11 PM

Don't you all love the furniture (carpet?) guy that screams the whole commercial?

I just don't understand advertisers. Do they think that people buy more stuff from them because they use "Billy Mays style" of pitchmen? I make it a point to NEVER buy their products.

Bubster

04-15-09, 04:05 PM

Chuckling at the spellchecked quote! :D :p

robmadden1

04-16-09, 12:02 AM

KET 54 analog went off the air at 12:02am for good. No goodbuy no nothing just went to snow. I am now picking up something on 54 that is very faint. Don't know where this 54 is located at.

robmadden1

04-16-09, 12:15 AM

I figured it out its 19 bleeding over on to 54.

DaveA28

04-16-09, 12:22 PM

I just don't understand advertisers. Do they think that people buy more stuff from them because they use "Billy Mays style" of pitchmen? I make it a point to NEVER buy their products.

When Billy Mays comes on, I hit MUTE! I cant stand his voice.

ThoraX695

04-16-09, 06:21 PM

I figured it out its 19 bleeding over on to 54.

Don't you live close to their transmitter?

William Smith

04-16-09, 06:33 PM

WCVN when down by remote control.

Bob Ball and I shut down WKLE.. He shutdown V1 which was still running on the original IOT from 1995 and I shut down V2.

William

microbob

04-16-09, 07:00 PM

WCVN when down by remote control.

Bob Ball and I shut down WKLE.. He shutdown V1 which was still running on the original IOT from 1995 and I shut down V2.

William

What is KET doing with the old analog equipment? Does it just go the scrap pile or can the old gear able to be converted to digital and the rest resold to other parts of the world like South America?

ThoraX695

04-16-09, 07:55 PM

I'm curious. How many people have contacted KET about losing their analog KET signal or are having problems with their KET digital signal?

Nitewatchman

04-16-09, 08:28 PM

I doubt they're up yet with Mobile DTV.

WBNS has already(In 2007) done some testing of M/H, but probably not while I was "looking". Some info near end of following article :

http://broadcastengineering.com/mobile_tv/harris_inband_mobileDTV20070417/

Anyway, don't think there are any tools(Other than a M/H receiver) I could use to do anything with it yet, but when I do come across one, In addition to capping the TS, I'm also going to try TSreader's "Record PID" function to just get a bit of the M/H stream ... Somewhere in there (via IP transport) among other things there would be AVC video/AAC audio streams, and of course those are no problem to decode with a PC ....

Nitewatchman

04-16-09, 08:46 PM

FYI, WKOI's Analog shutOff Notification(Filed 3/16/09 - at following link) to FCC indicates they will shut down "between 6:01pm~11:59pm on April 16 :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101301040&formid=910&fac_num=67869

But, this article reports May 1 shut off for WKOI :

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009903190347

------------

I was hoping for Today(hasn't happened yet as of 20:50 EDT), and thought I'd seen something up on WKOI to that effect at some point ...

--------

Update: Never mind ... Caught some info on WKOI at 9:30pm, they're saying April 16 (Tonight) ....

Trip in VA

04-16-09, 08:58 PM

WBNS has already(In 2007) done some testing of M/H, but probably not while I was "looking". Some info near end of following article :

http://broadcastengineering.com/mobile_tv/harris_inband_mobileDTV20070417/

Anyway, don't think there are any tools(Other than a M/H receiver) I could use to do anything with it yet, but when I do come across one, In addition to capping the TS, I'm also going to try TSreader's "Record PID" function to just get a bit of the M/H stream ... Somewhere in there (via IP transport) among other things there would be AVC video/AAC audio streams, and of course those are no problem to decode with a PC ....

Interesting. I didn't know WBNS had already tested it.

The guy who does TSReader is planning to add ATSC-M/H support in a future release. I've sent him captures from two stations and he says he's going to attempt to decipher the documents at some point. No idea when or anything though.

- Trip

William Smith

04-16-09, 09:17 PM

I'm curious. How many people have contacted KET about losing their analog KET signal or are having problems with their KET digital signal?

So far less than 75 have called our helpline.

William

ThoraX695

04-16-09, 10:09 PM

So far less than 75 have called our helpline.

That's seems to be a good number so far. Though I bet you that most of those calls were from Cincinnati given our track record. ;)

Nitewatchman

04-16-09, 10:34 PM

The guy who does TSReader is planning to add ATSC-M/H support in a future release. I've sent him captures from two stations and he says he's going to attempt to decipher the documents at some point. No idea when or anything though.

Quite a project there I'd think ... Will be excellent if he is successful ...

I had read the SF thread+Your and Ron's discussion there+ on the Mobile DTV thread -- And I had previously also looked through the A/153 docs for anything that might have given us an idea of how the M/H streams might be detected, with say TSreader -- But oddly enough I didn't find anything. Or just missed anything of relevance, as I find the A/153 docs much more difficult to process than the A/53 stuff. I 1/2 expected(until those caps/info) M/H would only show up in the Null packet stream, or outside of the MPEG2-TS alltogether such that maybe the TS Mux rate shown in TSreader would be lower/different than what we normally see(allways about 19.4Mb/s) ....

Anyway -- After reading those posts+the info on the caps you have one thing crossed my mind that it seems quite interesting the M/H stream seems to be a stream that is "within" the MPEG2-TS -- Much like any other stream there(such as say one of KET's datacast streams). And yet, a M/H receiver wouldn't "see" anything else in the TS besides the M/H stuff -- such as for example, when SNR is below threshold needed to decode "DTV as we know it",(~15dB SNR useable by receiver) but at or above what is needed for M/H (about 4dB SNR ....)

If I'm thinking about it correctly, seems to me it should be possible that with the right tools we could process/decode Free-to-air M/H services with our current hardware(with PC/ATSC "tuner" card or USB stick for the cap) :

As long as we can decode the legacy DTV service as we do currently(as long as we have 15dB SNR or greater which is useable by receiver) --- But, I don't know at this point if it is possible we can take advantage of what M/H offers in terms of greater robustness (and lower required SNR) without new hardware that supports M/H --- If it is possible, though, it does seem to me we would need new drivers (or "modules" for TSReader for input source that supports our specific hardware) that support M/H -- such as for example, the drivers for my card, and the ATSC BDA source my Hauppauage HVR-1600 uses which I use with TSreader ....

Anyway what I do understand out of the A/153 docs so far(which isn't much), it seems to be quite a accomplishment ... But Per Table 6.1 in A/153 Part 2 document, where it lists the efficiency of all the different modes(not including the FEC/etc. used for the A/53 legacy system which is outside of our total 19.383mb/s payload) --- Regarding M/H payload bits "available" as involving anywhere between 3~34% efficiency depending upon which mode(how much additional Error correction) is used ... That seems to me to be a huge bandwidth penalty, with much of the bits taken up by M/H (Can be anywhere from just .917 Mb/s up to 7.334Mb/s of our 19.383Mb/s Payload depending upon how the station implements it) used by additional FEC ....

On the one hand -- I think it could be a great thing, not only for mobile applications, but, with receiver which supports it(and "allows" an external antenna to be hooked up to it, if we get M/H receivers in anything other than cell phones/etc) I think also for fixed reception in difficult circumstances when the main "fixed" services as we know them are difficult to receive reliably AND for emergency info when power goes out/etc. via handheld battery powered TV's/"mobile" devices/etc ...

But, On the other hand, if somehow, it does turn out to be quite sucessful, what happens to OTA HDTV and current (MPEG2 /"A53 Only") receivers .....

Nitewatchman

04-16-09, 11:03 PM

Almost forgot ...

Might have mentioned this before, and the KET/WCVN 54 analog sign off reminded me of it again ... I've noticed I have a quite strong Signal on 55 from my South beginning not long after WWRD-LP moved from 55 to 32 last year -- I can detect it with a AGC reading/etc. on my Sony HDTV (and with some receivers-mainly tuner in JVC S-VHS VCR's -- the 1st adjacent channel blow-torch signal in same direction made a mess of WCVN 54 -- Same thing happens with that tuner to WBQC-CA 38 BTW if I aim antenna at WKOI-DT 39 - even though it's different signal modulation involved, it doesn't "look" any different than what the signal on 55 did to WCVN 54) -- Anyway - the signal on 55 is not 8VSB, but not NTSC/analog either -- It's noise-like on a analog TV and I'd guess probably OFDM based --- Given it's on 55 I'm sure that would have to be Quallcom's MediaFlo, but if possible I'd like to know Where the transmitter involved is located and if possible, info on ERP, Antenna/etc, such as the info you can get via TV query for Broadcast stations...

Anyone been able to find info on these Transmitters for MediaFlo anywhere on FCC site ?

Thanks ....

robmadden1

04-17-09, 03:55 AM

43 wkoi analog is finally off the air.

robmadden1

04-17-09, 04:02 AM

53 analog for a very lontime has not given me normal snow. It has huge black and white zig zaggy lines instead. What could this be?

ThoraX695

04-17-09, 08:50 PM

Update: Never mind ... Caught some info on WKOI at 9:30pm, they're saying April 16 (Tonight) ....

W36DG is still broadcasting in analog. Their flash-cut (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1153804) to digital is still good until 10/19/2009.

jimp2244

04-17-09, 09:04 PM

Sorry I have been busy lately but did want to respond and clarify.

This is simply not true.My original statement was indeed true.

What you say below is also true. It all boils down to commercials using the maximum allowable volume and eliminating any dynamic range. The links below describe what's going on quite well.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17229281/

http://www.rd.com/living-healthy/why-are-tv-commercials-so-loud/article96931.html (http://www.rd.com/living-healthy/why-are-tv-commercials-so-loud/article96931.html)
There are standards for audio levels. Some content producers don't follow them, and other times a local station has their equipment set wrong. Here are some links that explain loudness and dialnorm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialnorm

http://etvcookbook.org/audio/dialnorm.html

http://broadcastengineering.com/audio/broadcasting_managing_dtv_loudness/

There is also legislation being attempted to "fix the loud commercial problem."

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/76332

Nitewatchman

04-18-09, 04:23 PM

#1). TVGoS digital/WKRC --

Haven't seen any program listings from TVGoS digital via WKRC-DT (using my Cincy DMA Zip - 45042 with DTV Pal DVR) Since about Late Night last Wednesday ...

It looks like the DTV Pal DVR's clock is still set OK from WKRC-DT's TVGoS info, and the TvGuide Logo shows up, but there have been no TVGoS listings present for Any Cincinnati Station since Late Wed/Early thursday .... Also, checked the WKRC TVGoS streams with TSreader, they're still there with the "normal" bandwidth usage .... I've also tried resetting (factory reset/etc) the DTV Pal DVR, no dice ....

However, If I plug in a Dayton DMA zip(If I "moved" my house about 1000 Feet North I'd have a Dayton DMA Zip, LOL), I am still getting TVGoS digital listings(For Dayton stations Only - although there have been/are no listings for WDTN or WRGT)with DTV Pal DVR using the Digital TVGoS from WHIO-DT ...

Don't know if it's an issue specific to DTV Pal DVR , or my "zip code info" or if others might experience this issue as well ...

Of course, up until Last Wednesday, when I was still getting the TVGoS digital listings for Cincy from WKRC, WCET-DT 48.2 still had listings for "World", (not for "create" as it should be since about Dec 2008), and still nothing For KET2/KETKY/HD/ED, and Still nothing for WPTO, WLWT or WXIX or WOTH-LD ...

Also, as I think I'd mentioned in an earlier post, although I was getting TVGoS listings for Both Dayton and Cincinnati stations(with a Cincy DMA zip and apparently with data coming from WKRC) in Early January when I first started using DTV Pal DVR, beginning in Late Jan or so(If I recall correctly), it began "working" only for Dayton stations from WHIO's TVGoS digital streams and with a Dayton DMA zip input, and only for Cincinnati stations from WKRC and with a Cincy Zip input ... Which of course would be fine If I could input two zips with DTV Pal DVR, which I can't with the current firmware ... It did work quite nicely though for Both Cincy+Dayton the first few weeks I had the DTV Pal DVR, and the way it was regarding that before the TVGoS people changed something(and apparently, this change happened in other markets as well) was pretty nice ....

Anyway --- Unless DTV Pal DVR has some issues properly supporting TVGoS digital --- at present at least in this area TVGoS digital seems to have quite a ways to go .... And, I've noticed in many cases, more detailed programming information is available from the PSIP EIT's (thankfully, DTVPal DVR supports guide info via PSIP EIT's as well) ...... When I checked Dayton yesterday for instance, perhaps I did not wait long enough for all the TVGoS guide info to populate(I waited 12 hours) the guide but I did not see ANY detailed program descriptions via TVGoS for the Dayton stations -- The program titles were there out a week for WHIO/WPTD/WKEF/WBDT, but there was no program description for any program I checked .....

----------------------------------------------------------

#2). WSTR-DT MyTV HD Video ---

Anyone else notice that during all MyTV feeds(including during commercials/etc), there is a bit of a black, or "no picture data" area, so to speak, at top ? (no "black area" at sides or bottom)

Such that, although it's encoded at WSTR at 1920x1088 (1920x1080 encoded picture data) --- The MyTV video is apparently being "squeezed" into about 1920x1066 or so with the difference of about about 14 vertical lines of "black area" at the top, filling out the 1920x1080 .... It's difficult to say without being able to examine a broadcast circles/crosshatch pattern, but I think there is some distortion of PAR occuring ... Square pixels should be maintained - a completely filled 1280x720 frame from MyTV should also completely fill 1920x1080 ...

Note this only happens during My TV programming, not during local commercials or Syndicated programming, and also note that it's been going on since they began the conversion of 720p from MyTV to 1080i for Broadcast (about Sepetember 2008) ..... Prior to that time, 16x9 from MyTV Feed at 1280x720 filled the entire 1280x720 pixels (16x9) from WSTR with no "black area" at the top ....

Also, BTW, I haven't checked it out fully and am not sure what is going on ... but, In short, I've noticed it seems there may be some oddities occuring involving film based material and Blended frames(unfortunetly there in some cases from MyTV), regarding blended fields which are occuring in the 1280x720p to 1920x1080i Conversion occuring at WSTR ...

Nitewatchman

04-18-09, 04:58 PM

W36DG is still broadcasting in analog. Their flash-cut to digital is still good until 10/19/2009.

Yes, I noticed they were down a couple of days or so just before 4/16 and wondered if they might be working on the flash-cut, but they came back up sometime 4/16 as I recall ....

I do wonder with WTVQ gone if they might apply for something different than their current digital CP specifies ERP and DA wise ....

Anyway, W20CL Springfield is still up with analog as well, they have a Digital Companion channel CP for 24 ....

53 analog for a very lontime has not given me normal snow. It has huge black and white zig zaggy lines instead. What could this be?

Hard to say but based on some of your other posts It sounds to me like it is likely you may be using an amplifier or a "amplfied" antenna where signals are already very strong .... What happens in these sorts of situations is the amplifier (or front-end of receiver) is overloaded by strong signals and IMD (intermodulation distortion) is created on certian channels/frequencies other than the channels/frequencies those signals are actually present .....

Also, On an analog TV and on a adjacent channel, the AFT (automatic fine tuning) will often "wonder up(or down)" into the channel above or below the empty(no local signals present) channel you're tuned to and you'll see "junk" from a transmission (or even IMD)present on the adjacent channel ...

Oftentimes, one won't be able to detect IMD (which=increased noise as seen by the receiver/raising noise level and lowering SNR for the desired signal which is useable by receiver), which will occur on some channels/frequencies and not others. With DTV the increased noise will often just make your signal quality meter readings lower or "bounce around" or cause other problems with reception of certain stations which one might misdiagnose as being caused by other issues ....

Anyway, On analog seeing things such as a noisy picture from WXIX 19 show up on say, Channel 54 is a sure sign you have "overload" issues ....

Note that strong FM broadcast band signals(or any sort of strong signal in the range of frequencies your antenna is picking up or your amplifier is amplifying) can also easily overload amps as well .. Which is why many amps include switchable FM traps .... FM signals (even those that aren't "really there" on the frequency involved except as IMD created in an overloaded amp or receiver, and also including the FM audio used by analog TV stations - which is at upper end of the each 6MHZ channel) will show up as diagonal "squiggly lines" on analog ...

robmadden1

04-19-09, 01:36 PM

The amp on the antenna is at level one basically off.

Nitewatchman

04-19-09, 03:22 PM

Adjustable Gain amps typically increase amount of noise when you set it at lower settings/reduce output gain .... In other words, setting it at lower settings doesn't usually change how much amp is being overloaded by nearby strong signals ... Unless the equipment(such as amplfied antenna) has a specific setting to allow you to turn off the amp and bypass the amp's circuitry, You can't however simply turn off/disconnect power to a in-line amplifier or "amplified" antenna in most cases, because the unpowered circuitry in the amp will attenuate signals MUCH more than if you were not using an amp at all.

Anyway, As long as it is not causing problems with reception of the stations you want to watch --- which is sometimes difficult to tell, especially with DTV as we can't see such impairments/increased noise on screen as we can with analog --- this sort of thing isn't really a problem(it won't "damage" your equipment/etc) -- And there are times when using an amp is going to help even though it(or receiver front end due to the stronger signals via the amp) is being overloaded to some extent+creating IMD products effecting certian frequencies as well as probably operating with reduced output - It's usually desired reception of weaker signals on certian frequencies(which vary depending upon where on the dial the stronger signals that are overloading things are) which are effected the most by this sort of thing -- but be careful interpeting what you see on channels where there are no local stations, as it can often be "junk"/IMD created within your overloaded equipment rather than something that is actually being transmitted on any given frequency (Or again - even without "overload", AFT on your analog TV wondering up into portions of channel above or below the one you are "tuned" to) ...

druber

04-19-09, 10:52 PM

Anyone have issues with their recording of "Sit Down, Shut Up" on WXIX tonight? Recording to my Mac tonight with EyeTV, trying to edit the video in MPEG Streamclip, which is my normal process, yields audio but no video. (White screen) EyeTV is able to play back the file fine. Same issue with the last couple recordings of "Fringe". Anyone else noticing a difference, or has my setup gone haywire?

Bubster

04-24-09, 10:22 AM

Location: East Africa:D:D

druber: Just be glad you get WXIX that far away at all. You must, however, share with us what type of antenna you use though. :)

druber

04-24-09, 07:54 PM

I have a DB4, same setup as I've had for the past six months in this location. EyeTV reports signal strength in the 85%-89% range. That's straight signal, no amps in the path. I've been recording OTA channels for a couple years. WXIX is recording normally--that is, I can play back recordings in EyeTV. But if I export a clip (MPG container program stream) in EyeTV or attempt to open the original recording, the file can't be opened in Quicktime (which MPEG Streamclip uses to decode audio/video). Recordings made from WXIX three weeks ago or from other channels currently work as expected.

Nitewatchman

04-24-09, 10:02 PM

Druber,

I just tried opening a brief TS cap of WXIX-DT with MPEGStreamclip (Using XP/Not a mac+QuickTime Alternative 1.81) from tonight's "dollhouse" --- It Won't work here either(MPEGstreamclip hangs in fact). Also tried just a program stream (mpg/converted with VRD+) for 19.1, MPEGStreamClip wouldn't work with it either.

I also tried a brief cap from "Dollhouse" from WRGT-DT, Fox Dayton -- Same result -- So, whatever is going on, Looks Like MPEGstreamclip doesn't like the Fox/Splicer stream currently ... I have heard elsewhere that Fox has been working on adding AFD, don't know if that has anything to do with it or not ..

Oh, BTW, since I haven't used it in a while, I also tried some short caps from Other stations (such as WCPO-DT) -- No problems opening that in MPEGstreamclip, including switching to the 9.2 subchannel by changing video PID selection/etc ....

I haven't used MPEStreamclip much lately as I typically use other tools for editing/etc, but FWIW last time I did(over a year ago) with a cap from WXIX it was fine ...

----------

Update: Just tried short caps During WXIX and WRGT local news -- No problems opening those with MPEG2streamclip, so it's a issue with MPEG2Streamclip and current Fox/Splicer Stream, Not a WXIX or WRGT specific issue ...

Just a thought, you might want to send a report to squared5(MPEGStreamclip's developer) about this, as they are in Italy and I'd guess probably don't have access to Fox/Splicer Stream for testing/may not be aware of the problem yet -- contact info can be found in the PDF guide -- or here at their website:

http://www.squared5.com/svideo/contact.html

druber

04-25-09, 01:51 PM

Thanks for the test caps and info. Glad it isn't my system going south, at least. Square5 updates extremely rarely. Maybe I will use the opportunity to free myself from the tyranny of archiving files and just watch & delete.

pjpjpjpj

04-28-09, 07:50 AM

Anyone heard anything about when Channel 12 will finally get their news in HD? They ran some tests back during the election in November, and I have not heard a word since.

This morning on "Good Morning Cincinnati", the weather guy John Gumm had the computer get glitchy behind him as he was showing the forecast. He said "I need a new computer!"... (pause)... "...which is ironic, because I have new computers, I just can't use them yet."

I was wondering if that was a comment about new equipment for when they finally switch to HD...

Bill R (# 2)

04-28-09, 06:28 PM

Anyone heard anything about when Channel 12 will finally get their news in HD? They ran some tests back during the election in November, and I have not heard a word since.

I had heard that it was going to be in March (shortly after the original DVT transition date). I wonder if there is some technical reason (equipment space?) that they have to wait until after analog is shut off and it will be after June 12th.

Speaking of WKRC, does anyone know the date that their digital station will move to VHF, channel 12? I assume that it will be June 12th but I could not find anything on their web site.

ThoraX695

04-28-09, 10:02 PM

Speaking of WKRC, does anyone know the date that their digital station will move to VHF, channel 12? I assume that it will be June 12th but I could not find anything on their web site.

According to dtv.gov (http://www.dtv.gov/stationlist.htm), WKRC is transitioning on June 12.

Side note: On the same list, it looks like WDKY in Lexington is transitioning their digital signal from RF 4 to RF 31 (where WKRC's digital signal currently resides) on June 12. Has anyone in our area gotten a lock on their digital signal on RF 4?

Trip in VA

04-28-09, 10:12 PM

Has anyone in our area gotten a lock on their digital signal on RF 4?

Nitewatchman has.

- Trip

ThoraX695

04-28-09, 10:14 PM

Nitewatchman has.

I was thinking along the lines of us mere mortals. ;)

Nitewatchman

04-29-09, 02:54 PM

If I recall correctly, I think microbob has said he receives WDKY-DT.

Trip,

Attached zip file has current WCET-DT (with updateTV streams) and WOTH-LD (RTN/JTV/etc) Tsreader HTML export files(w/o EIT info or thumbnails) if you need them ...

Oh, Haven't had time to try an earlier version/look for something else that might work with AFD, but I'd read in another thread AFD support might be broken with TSreaderlite 2.8.46e. Which is what I'm currently using, so I dunno what is going on with any of the stations in the area with AFD, but I haven't even seen a AFD descriptor show up yet (which I'd thought it at least would anyway if it was there ) ....

Update: Oh, if you missed our earlier discussion, the WCET "unknown usage" stream PID at 0x002a is actually a 192Kb/s AC3 audio stream, it's a service for visually impaired where they read newspapers, magazine articles/etc ....

microbob

04-29-09, 03:18 PM

If I recall correctly, I think microbob has said he receives WDKY-DT.

Yes I can receive WDKY-DT and WKYT which is also on VHF Ch13. I have trouble getting the other UHF DT stations in Lexington though.

Trip in VA

04-29-09, 03:19 PM

Thanks for the data. Glad to have it.

Yeah, I heard that AFD support is broken as well. I know that Fox is including it via the splicer, as there are some older HDTVs which are choking on the AFD data. Or so I've been told.

I remember reading that discussion about WCET's data; I just don't understand why they're obscuring it like that. In other areas, the reading services are given subchannels. See NJN in New Jersey or Rocky Mountain PBS in Colorado or even WVIZ in Cleveland.

- Trip

robmadden1

04-29-09, 11:01 PM

DON'T FORGET:

ThinkTV16 and ThinkTV14 will discontinue broadcast of its over-the-air analog channels at 1am on Friday, May 1st, 2009.

robmadden1

04-29-09, 11:04 PM

I am hoping I can finally get 16 when they move digital to 16 from where it is now here in delhi with my indoor antenna.

Splicer010

04-29-09, 11:31 PM

don't forget:

thinktv16 and thinktv14 will discontinue broadcast of its over-the-air analog channels at 1am on friday, may 1st, 2009.

Yea!!! :D

ThoraX695

04-29-09, 11:37 PM

DON'T FORGET:

ThinkTV16 and ThinkTV14 will discontinue broadcast of its over-the-air analog channels at 1am on Friday, May 1st, 2009.

WCET 48 is shutting off May 1 as well, but at 12:01 AM. (http://www.cetconnect.org/PressRoom/ArticleDisplay.aspx?ID=123)

robmadden1

04-30-09, 12:28 AM

If the conditions are right like last summer when CET 48 analog was off over night I got CW 4 from Indianapolis since thier digital channel is on 48. I wouldn't mind getting it again this summer every once ina wehile from tropo lol unless they are moving from 48 to another channel.

Trip in VA

04-30-09, 02:37 PM

I just now uploaded the new captures you posted, Jeff.

I don't understand what WCET is doing. They are stat muxing, but it's not actually doing anything useful. Based on the two old caps plus the new one, it looks like they have the CrEaTe sub fixed at 2.1 Mbps, the HD can vary its bitrate but not above 13.85 Mbps, only below that number. Meanwhile, there's 2.3 Mbps worth of null packets just sitting there. One would think they could bring back CET World with that bandwidth, no?

- Trip

gerhard911

04-30-09, 02:45 PM

Nitewatchman

04-30-09, 09:37 PM

Meanwhile, there's 2.3 Mbps worth of null packets just sitting there. One would think they could bring back CET World with that bandwidth, no?

Do note WCET does still provide World (and PBSKids) to TW Cable ....

Some info here :

http://www.cetconnect.org/Television/CETChannels.aspx

http://www.cetconnect.org/Television/TVSchedule.html

At one time, I think they were feeding Ohio Channel to some cable headends as well (which WPTD has OTA, WPTO also airs a Block of Ohio Channel in the wee hours ), I don't know if that is still the case.

------------------------------

Anyway, also attached are a couple more TSreader HTML caps -- For WHIO and WKRC with the "VBI" stream, as I noticed they weren't there for the caps currently on Rabbit ears ...

Trip in VA

04-30-09, 10:01 PM

Thanks. I've actually got a backlog of captures to upload that I just haven't gotten to yet. Finals started today and end for me on Tuesday. Once I get home on Wednesday I'll be able to get caught up on things.

- Trip

mikemikeb

04-30-09, 10:05 PM

I don't understand what WCET is doing. ... HD can vary its bitrate but not above 13.85 Mbps, only below that number. Meanwhile, there's 2.3 Mbps worth of null packets just sitting there. One would think they could bring back CET World with that bandwidth, no?

- TripPossibly add in an ATSC-M/H stream? (Although, I also think it should go to the HD video bitrate.)

robmadden1

05-01-09, 12:02 AM

48 WCET did a special sign off unlike 54 and 64.

robmadden1

05-01-09, 12:59 AM

14 and 16 went 2 minutes early with shutting analog off.

jimp2244

05-01-09, 10:56 AM

I don't understand what WCET is doing. They are stat muxing, but it's not actually doing anything useful. Based on the two old caps plus the new one, it looks like they have the CrEaTe sub fixed at 2.1 Mbps, the HD can vary its bitrate but not above 13.85 Mbps, only below that number. Meanwhile, there's 2.3 Mbps worth of null packets just sitting there. One would think they could bring back CET World with that bandwidth, no?I asked them about this a while back and got an answer that didn't really make any sense. They say that in order to have two different streams (one for Time Warner and one for OTA), they send it through the encoder twice. The first is for Time Warner which includes World and Create, and the second time it goes through again and they strip out World in order to make room for the extra things required for OTA broadcast (digital EAS, Ohio EAS, Update Logic, PMT, PAT, EIT, STT, and ETT).

So, what they end up with is wasted bandwidth on the OTA broadcast in order to give an extra channel to Time Warner.

pjpjpjpj

05-01-09, 12:43 PM

14 and 16 went 2 minutes early with shutting analog off.

So has Channel 16 digital now moved to physical channel 16? Or are they staying at 58 until June 12? (I realize that this should be in the Dayton forum, but enough people here get 16 that I figure it's okay ;) )

blbrodbeck

05-01-09, 02:16 PM

So has Channel 16 digital now moved to physical channel 16? Or are they staying at 58 until June 12? (I realize that this should be in the Dayton forum, but enough people here get 16 that I figure it's okay ;) )

They've already moved to 16. They seem to be coming in better here in NW Hamilton County.

513Tech

05-01-09, 08:26 PM

34 Channels on my Zenith turner

Elliot Block if you're reading when are you going to air pro wrestling on 25?

robmadden1

05-01-09, 10:23 PM

I can't get 16 in Delhi on my radio shack indoor antenna. Have they increaszed thier power yet or are they not allowed too until June 12th?

fafner

05-02-09, 12:12 PM

I have a 42" Westinghouse Monitor/TV that has no internal ATSC/NTSC tuner which I have always used with DirecTV. Now, however, I want to use it to get local OTA channels. I have a converter box that will let me get these channels but it converts them all to analog. Does anyone know where I can get an external ATSC tuner in Cincinnati that I can connect to the Westinghouse set so I can get local OTA hi-def channels? I have a roof antenna so I just need the box to feed the antenna set to the tuner box which I can then feed to the monitor. Thanks.

fafner

Bubster

05-02-09, 02:50 PM

fafner

05-02-09, 03:26 PM

I have a Samsung DTBH260F HDTV Terrestrial Receiver and hate it. I see it as a short term situation so I'm not going to bother replacing it but I will suggest that you not buy one. :p

May I ask what you hate about it and whether you are interested in getting rid of it? My situtation is also a short term one but probably longer than yours.

fafner

Splicer010

05-02-09, 03:54 PM

Look for a LG 3510a or 3410a on ebay or Hisense unit...

Bubster

05-02-09, 05:22 PM

May I ask what you hate about it and whether you are interested in getting rid of it? My situtation is also a short term one but probably longer than yours.

fafner

Worst remote ever. The design is horrible and it generally takes several keypushes to actually make the command work. Other times it is too sensitive and skips channels. Will not save favorites. After a scan I went through and deleted all the channels I didn't want but they slowly reappear. The menus for setting up the channels and favorites are the worst I have ever seen. They look ok they just don't work.

I tried keeping it on 24/7 to help the above issues and it would lock up every week or 2 requiring a cold boot.

Keep in mind I use it for QAM only, it may work fine for OTA.

I'm guessing Samsung paid another company to design and make these because it is simply atrocious. Keep in mind though that Samsung were universally hated for their remotes the first few years thay made DLP sets also. I have one and bought a Harmony to fix the issues. Even the Harmony doesn't help the DTBH260F.

All I can say is don't do it! :)

It does, however, receive all the TWC QAM channels well enough. That's what I bought it for.

digital only

05-02-09, 07:33 PM

My wife's STDV crt picked up ION 63.1-63.4 out of Indianapolis just fine this morning here in SW butler county. I thought we had a new channel in the area for a few minutes

ThoraX695

05-02-09, 07:58 PM

My wife's STDV crt picked up ION 63.1-63.4 out of Indianapolis just fine this morning here in SW butler county. I thought we had a new channel in the area for a few minutes

It looks like it's WIPX. Their digital signal is on RF 27 and it looks like their transmitter is about 20 miles south of downtown Indianapolis. Maybe she got a lucky tropo bounce.

robmadden1

05-03-09, 12:26 AM

63-1-.4 its nothing new I got it alot lasst summer here in Delhi with my indoor radio shack spaship looking antenna. I have also gotten digital 23.1 -.2, 59.1 from Indianapolis before.

kyaj2

05-03-09, 01:27 PM

I've been able to get ION before here outside Hamilton before too, just a couple times. I had to hold my amplified antenna up and do the hokey-pokey, but I got that, plus 3 & 11 from Louisville for one beautiful weekend last year. Unfortunately, I've not got the equipment necessary to make that consistent.

ohiogal

05-03-09, 02:25 PM

the only pbs channel think tv 16 is doing the no signals, this is the only pbs stations i can get on my tv. i wonder what is going on.

Splicer010

05-03-09, 04:39 PM

the only pbs channel think tv 16 is doing the no signals, this is the only pbs stations i can get on my tv. i wonder what is going on.

If you mean think 16 DIGITAL then I have no clue what you are asking...But if you mean think 16 ANALOG then they shut down the transmitter a few days ago...

ohiogal

05-03-09, 06:00 PM

i know that, but they lost all signals today, it went down from 97 percent to 92, i think my channels are being screwed.

Splicer010

05-03-09, 08:05 PM

i know that, but they lost all signals today, it went down from 97 percent to 92, i think my channels are being screwed.

97 to 92 is hardly "losing all signals" and in fact would not even be noticeable...

dtv insider

05-03-09, 10:06 PM

97 to 92 is hardly "losing all signals" and in fact would not even be noticeable...

WPTD was off the air between 2:00 pm and 6:00 pm because of a-c power loss.

Remember to re-scan.

Splicer010

05-03-09, 10:18 PM

WPTD was off the air between 2:00 pm and 6:00 pm because of a-c power loss.

Remember to re-scan.

Well that certainly explains the "lost all signals today" but that doesn't explain the "97 percent to 92" part...:confused:

robmadden1

05-03-09, 10:27 PM

Splicer010

05-03-09, 11:49 PM

Good luck using an indoor antenna...

robmadden1

05-04-09, 03:55 AM

I can get digital 2 sometimes thats the only digital Dayton station I can get right now off and on. I live in a condo so I can't use a outdoor antenna.

The maps showing what stations I should be gaining:

http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/3470/7cbf3e34694032.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7cbf3e34694032/) http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/3470/66279f34694038.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/66279f34694038/) http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/3470/3acd1934694046.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3acd1934694046/)

pjpjpjpj

05-04-09, 09:29 AM

FWIW, I rescanned on my SageTV (HDHR/attic antennas) this weekend, and I still get 16 here in Evendale... but I did not watch long enough to see if there were dropout issues. I was a little concerned because my homemade antenna is a little more tuned to the upper end of the UHF spectrum than the lower end (screen-reflected DBGH). I expect it will be fine, but I don't know - I think my wife has a few shows scheduled to record from the 16.x channels this week, so I will know soon enough.

I am just waiting on the final switchover in June so that I can see whether 18/26's power increase will finally allow me to get it reliably. I currently can get it, but with frequent dropouts (so I disable it in the EPG... I don't really need it anyway). And, of course, there's that whole "channel 12 going from UHF to VHF" thing that has me worried....

And when the heck is Zap2It going to pick up the digital 25/38/Skyline/WKRP in their EPG???

ThoraX695

05-04-09, 05:46 PM

And, of course, there's that whole "channel 12 going from UHF to VHF" thing that has me worried....

The test WKRC did back in December showed that 12 on RF 12 was working as well or better than 12 on RF 31. (And I suspect that WCPO's problems on RF 10 will be alleviated after they do their post-transition antenna work.)

And when the heck is Zap2It going to pick up the digital 25/38/Skyline/WKRP in their EPG???

It should be soon. I had to manually add 25.1 and 25.2 to my Titan TV. 25.3 and 25.4 aren't out there yet.

robmadden1

05-04-09, 06:58 PM

ver wondered what an analog TV transmitter looked like? How big it is? You can see it on this CET video from early Friday morning, when CET ended analog broadcasts after 55 years. You can see the old analog transmitter, and the newer digital tranmitter, in a building under the Ch 5/48 tower in University Heights. The video shows staffers counting down the final 10 seconds before throwing the switch.

The digital transition has been smooth, reports Jack Dominic, CET VP and COO. Only 10 calls over the weekend, and two this morning. Several were from people with HDTVs who had never scanned for DTV channels, and had been watching analog without knowing it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYd4qJMlwps&feature=player_embedded

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3aaf4 e919c-7b9d-4378-baf9-bc7ef57fc7df&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

dtv insider

05-04-09, 08:48 PM

I wonder if I will eventually get 16 here in Delhi? When I looked on the map showing the Digital vs Analog with the gree triangles it said I should be getting it but have not been able to get it on my indoor antenna unless they are waiting till June 12 to increase the power.

16 is at full power no increase in power on June 12.

A new top antenna the week of May 11.

They are using the old top mount how.

robmadden1

05-04-09, 09:41 PM

Should the new top antenna help people get 16 better?

ThoraX695

05-05-09, 02:19 AM

A new top antenna the week of May 11.

They are using the old top mount how.

Is this new antenna going to provide any additional advantages, such as circular polarization?

dtv insider

05-05-09, 12:33 PM

Is this new antenna going to provide any additional advantages, such as circular polarization?

YES cicular polarization is in the new antenna. It's the first step to moblie DTV.

Andy Travis

05-05-09, 05:03 PM

And when the heck is Zap2It going to pick up the digital 25/38/Skyline/WKRP in their EPG???

Good question. Zap2It gets its information from Tribune Media Services. We contacted TMS to inform them the information sent from TMS to Zap2It has not been updated. It's been very frustrating to know our information isn't made available to our viewers.

Feel free to express your frustration to them as well. Let me know if there is anything I can do as well.

Suzanne Brooks
Tribune Media Services
smbrooks@tribune.com

Thanks for your patience,
Matt @ WKRP

Nitewatchman

05-05-09, 05:13 PM

Hey Andy, How about a Turkey Drop This Thanksgiving ?

Watch out for the Phone Cops!

Sorry couldn't resist for post # 6k ....

jim tressler

05-05-09, 10:14 PM

as god is my witness I thought turkeys could fly!

jimp2244

05-06-09, 09:50 AM

The test WKRC did back in December showed that 12 on RF 12 was working as well or better than 12 on RF 31. (And I suspect that WCPO's problems on RF 10 will be alleviated after they do their post-transition antenna work.I think WKRC did fine on 12 as well during their testing, but it's more the fact that it's changing from UHF to VHF. Those who have been using UHF antennas may not have as much luck after the change. Of course they might get lucky and it continues to work fine as well...

pjpjpjpj

05-06-09, 10:56 AM

The digital transition has been smooth, reports Jack Dominic, CET VP and COO. Only 10 calls over the weekend, and two this morning. Several were from people with HDTVs who had never scanned for DTV channels, and had been watching analog without knowing it! I have no doubt that there are a LOT of people out there in this exact situation - a LOT. People who plugged in their HDTVs, tuned in to their local analog station, (by default when they bought it) had the TV set to the aspect ratio where it stretches the 4:3 picture to 16:9 (anamorphic)... and because the picture fills the screen, they think they are watching HD. They're probably even telling themselves that "it looks so much better than the old TV!". :rolleyes:

I think WKRC did fine on 12 as well during their testing, but it's more the fact that it's changing from UHF to VHF. Those who have been using UHF antennas may not have as much luck after the change. Of course they might get lucky and it continues to work fine as well...That was what I meant by my comment. It's not anything with their transmission, it's the jump to VHF. I currently get WCPO (10) via my supposedly-UHF-only antenna, just because I'm close enough that it "powers through". So I am basically counting on the same thing to happen with 12. I expect it will - but I won't know until it happens.

ThoraX695

05-08-09, 05:53 PM

It looks like Titan TV added slots for 25.3 and 25.4 (http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/basic.aspx?siteid=49826) (Retro TV Network and Jewelry TV, respectively), but there's no programming information available. At least it's a step in the right direction. :) Hopefully that will be plugged in soon.

gerhard911

05-08-09, 06:33 PM

Well, I certainly hope they get you program info for JTV ASAP :rolleyes:

blbrodbeck

05-11-09, 06:45 PM

skylab

05-12-09, 12:32 AM

In July, CET plans to add a second digital subchannel, 48.3 per Kiesewetter. Story is here - http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a4cc 47968-6322-4f6d-9a6b-b5692a648c62&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

He states in his article, "There is only a little overlap between the Ch 48 and Ch 16 viewing area, so the 48/16 duplication probably will continue."

Little overlap? I'm sure someone can post the coverage maps for OTA, but last time I checked 16 and 48 both covered all of Warren and Butler counties, not to mention some of Hamilton and Montgomery counties. Alot of people live between Dayton and Cincinnati these days. Not to mention that 48 is carried on cable in parts of the Dayton metro area and 16 carried on cable in parts of the Cincinnati metro area. It would be nice if 14, 16, and 48 could coordinate programming and reduce the number of subchannels so we get decent picture quality.

Trip in VA

05-12-09, 04:22 PM

maxdamage586

05-12-09, 05:36 PM

gerhard911

05-12-09, 06:07 PM

Hi I was wondering if anyone could help with a problem I am having. I just bought a 32" Sharp Aquos LCD with internal HD tuner and I hooked it up to my standard cable and did a scan for digital channels which returned a ton of results. I get NBC hd at channel 5.1 and 64.1 MY64 hd but I can't find Fox HD, ABC hd, or CBS hd. Online it says Fox HD should be 19.1 but that doesn't even come up.

Can anyone help me out?
Thanks

Maybe. Who is your cable provider ? Do you subscribe to any digital cable service (TV, internet &/or phone) ?

Internal HD tuners come in two varieties - ATSC for over the air broadcasts and QAM for digital cable. Does your TV include both ?

With any digital service, TWC (and probably Insight) generally passes the local major networks over clear QAM. If you are not subscribed to any digital service they may block all digital signals. In that case you might still be able to tune a few of the local broadcast networks "off the air" transmission even without an antenna.

With TWC I have frequently found that the signal levels of several of their clear QAM channels need amplification to be tunable.

maxdamage586

05-12-09, 06:39 PM

I have TWC, we have digital cable downstairs and I live right by UC and we got all hd locals through college cable services last year even. 12.1 and 19.1 are both unviewable but 5.1 and all the PBS/KET HD channels come in fine along with some other random digital channels.

maxdamage586

05-12-09, 06:42 PM

oh and my tv has built-in ATSC / QAM / NTSC tuners

gerhard911

05-12-09, 07:01 PM

It sounds to me like you need a good quality amp to boost the signal levels. As I said I have seen this several times with TWC.

I would recommend one of these Electroline drop amps (http://www.electroline.com/en/products/drop_amplifiers/index.html). Frequently available on ebay at good prices.

skylab

05-12-09, 07:06 PM

Splicer010

05-12-09, 07:08 PM

The channels are probably there...just mapped using different channel numbers...

Nitewatchman

05-12-09, 08:04 PM

While there is a fair bit of overlap, I doubt there's any overlap when it comes to satellite carriage, and there are large areas where the signals do not overlap. To carry the national PBS schedule in one area but not another wouldn't be fair to fringe viewers who only receive one signal or the other.

I believe the point of importance is, much of the information provided in the Blog (by a local TV reporter/"media type" person for a large newspaper) is inaccurate .....

Yeah, I'd call the area between about Florence, KY North to I-70 a little more than "only a "little overlap", especially since both stations(as well as the other Cincy+Dayton stations for the most part, excepting the LP's and WCVN, and to a lesser "exception" WBDT digital) coverage areas cover majority of Population of Both Dayton and Cincinnati Metro areas+all the area in Between .... Concerning the biggest area that doesn't "overlap", There is a large(much more sparsely populated) area North of I-70 which WPTD serves and WCET does not ... WCET however does have quite a null in their directional antenna pattern to the South, but of course in Addition to WPTO, KET covers those areas in N KY which WCET doesn't as well ...

WPTD-DT predicted 41dBu contour (coverage or "viewing" area) :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1249790.html

WCET-DT Predicted 41dBu contour (coverage or "viewing" Area) :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1171881.html

Typically, in our area(mostly due to transmit antenna height) the stations have a coverage area of about a 55~65 mile radius ... Given WPTD/WCET transmitters are only about 42 Miles apart (not 50), well you get the idea ...

-----------------------------------------------

Also,couple of other things I noticed regarding that blog entry :

#1). CET replaced "World" with "Create" OTA either sometime at end of
December 2008 or Beginning of January 2009 - NOTE- My DTVPal DVR(OTA Only HD DVR) with TVGoS listings(from WKRC-DT's TVGoS streams) STILL incorrectly shows the "world" program listings for 48.2/create, LOL ...

#2). WPTO's "14World" is completely different programming from PBS's "World", which is what CET had (and apparently still offers via "digital cable") .... Given that is something I'd think just about any DTV viewer would have "noticed", well, never mind .....

maxdamage586

05-12-09, 08:54 PM

Paul210

05-12-09, 11:57 PM

hmmm well my roommate has a Motorola broadband drop amp that I just tried with my TV and still no Fox HD on the channel listed online (19.1). When I turn it to 19.1 its just a black screen then finally a little box pops up that says "Failed to receive broadcast [E202]".

Max,

Check out this site (http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels) for the actual QAM channel numbers. 19.1 is a virtual (remapped) channel number.

Paul

Splicer010

05-13-09, 06:41 AM

Max,

Check out this site (http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels) for the actual QAM channel numbers. 19.1 is a virtual (remapped) channel number.

Paul

He is using CABLE for his DTV...The link you provided is for antenna...

To the OP...19.1 may not be 19.1 on your TV...LOOK AT ALL THE CHANNELS...If one local comes in then they all come in...simple as that...

gerhard911

05-13-09, 07:35 AM

Max,

On TWC Cincy, WXIX shares QAM channel 85 with WCET. WLWT & WCVN (KET) share QAM 84, WKRC & WCPO share 86, WSTR & WPTD share 113. There should be info in the data stream telling your TV where to map the channel.

It is hardly as simple as "if one comes in they all come in". Signal level and quality can vary widely between the QAM channels. I have seen multiple occasions where not all channels could be tuned without some help.

After inserting the amp did you have your TV rescan for channels ? Are you getting any channels you didn't originally ?

Ratman

05-13-09, 08:28 AM

He is using CABLE for his DTV...The link you provided is for antenna.....

It does both.
After entering the zipcode, use the drop down box at the top to select your cable provider when the second page loads.

Splicer010

05-13-09, 08:58 AM

So it does...so it does...

rvillalvag

05-13-09, 10:21 AM

Hi I was wondering if anyone could help with a problem I am having. I just bought a 32" Sharp Aquos LCD with internal HD tuner and I hooked it up to my standard cable and did a scan for digital channels which returned a ton of results. I get NBC hd at channel 5.1 and 64.1 MY64 hd but I can't find Fox HD, ABC hd, or CBS hd. Online it says Fox HD should be 19.1 but that doesn't even come up.

Can anyone help me out?
Thanks

I have a similar problem with another Sharp TV (not Aquos). I have Insight cable, the basic service only (just the OTA channels through cable). In my case, I pick up all the HD channels except for 12.1 (and 64.1 intermittently) A few days ago, a tech was here and I talked with him about that. He thinks that in my case, 12.1 was blocked because its frequency overlapped with the classic service channels, which I don't have. However, he checked the signal with his equipment and he thinks that I should be able to get it. I asked if it was a power issue, but he said that channel seemed to come as strong as the others. He said he would get back with me on that. I don't know if the fact that you don't get those channels is similar to what the tech told me. Does someone think this makes sense?

Bill R (# 2)

05-13-09, 11:44 AM

I have a similar problem with another Sharp TV (not Aquos). I have Insight cable, the basic service only (just the OTA channels through cable). In my case, I pick up all the HD channels except for 12.1 (and 64.1 intermittently) A few days ago, a tech was here and I talked with him about that. He thinks that in my case, 12.1 was blocked because its frequency overlapped with the classic service channels, which I don't have. However, he checked the signal with his equipment and he thinks that I should be able to get it. I asked if it was a power issue, but he said that channel seemed to come as strong as the others. He said he would get back with me on that. I don't know if the fact that you don't get those channels is similar to what the tech told me. Does someone think this makes sense?

I think that the Insight "tech" is wrong. WKRC-DT, 12.1, does not overlap with any of Insight's classic channels (ch. 2-74). I checked my TV and 12.1 is on Insight's digital channel 94. I would check the signal level on channel 94 and see if that is the problem.

Paul210

05-13-09, 01:14 PM

I know for a fact there are several TVs out there that won't remap QAM channels like they should. A friend's Sony 'S' series from last year's lineup won't remap several of them, but her el-cheapo 19" Magnavox put everything right where you expect to find them. Actually, the Sony didn't even pick up some of the QAM channels on a scan, but when I manually entered the ACTUAL channel number, it added it to the lineup (still didn't remap though). If Sharp's tuners are as cheesy as some of the Sonys, that could be the problem.

ThoraX695

05-13-09, 09:14 PM

It looks like W36DG is broadcasting a black screen and no sound. Could they be possibly getting ready for flash cutting to digital? Or is it because of the rain. ;)

And WXIX hasn't been sending any programming data the last few days. (This applies to both 19.1 and 19.2.)

Splicer010

05-13-09, 09:54 PM

I got 19-2 programming info today when 'Class' was on...

maxdamage586

05-13-09, 10:29 PM

well I finally got everything working for me. I used my roommate's drop amp and when I typed in 19.1 it didn't work but after I did a rescan it came up and even still works if I disconnect the amp! seems weird to me... thanks guys for the help

ThoraX695

05-14-09, 07:09 PM

It looks like W36DG is broadcasting a black screen and no sound. Could they be possibly getting ready for flash cutting to digital? Or is it because of the rain. ;)

W36DG is back to its normal analog self.

robmadden1

05-16-09, 01:57 AM

Has 16 put on their new antenna yet?

Nitewatchman

05-17-09, 01:41 PM

I'm Getting no program listings via TVGoS Digital from WKRC Past Wed 5/20 Early AM via DTV Pal DVR (which usually works out 7 Days -- And, this has been the case Since Last Wednesday )...

I'm wondering if anyone else with different device (other than DTVPal DVR) that supports TVGoS Digital is seeing this issue, or if it's something specific occuring with DTVPal DVR and WKRC's TVGoS digital stream ???

This happened a number of weeks ago -- oddly enough, I think the listings "stopped" at the same time on A early Wednesay AM, and now has happened again .. And as was the case on the previous occasion, If I use a Dayton DMA Zip+ WHIO's for the TVGoS listing(for Dayton stations only) instead of Cincy DMA Zip(For cincy stations only) fromn WKRC, with WHIO's stream, it's working fine and listings going out 7 days as usual ...

dtv insider

05-17-09, 09:11 PM

Has 16 put on their new antenna yet?

I heard from the engineers at WPTD due to weather the tower crew is running about two weeks behind.

wkrp

05-19-09, 04:44 PM

To Thorax695 and PJPJPJPJ, We are making a little progress with the listing folks, Matt tell me Directv has all the channel listed, that comes from Tribune, Dish also get there info from Tribune but is not passing the data. Titan (who we pay for the listing still don't have it right. TVgo (TV guide) who sends the info via WKRC has the data but I don't know what there problem is to pass it through. I'll keep you posted.
Elliott

PS, we will be testing our 5th encoder (25.5) later this week.

ThoraX695

05-19-09, 08:01 PM

Titan (who we pay for the listing still don't have it right.

It may not be just you. WKOI subchannels 43.2-43.5 are showing "Programming Unavailable" as well. All of the other stations look OK.

PS, we will be testing our 5th encoder (25.5) later this week.

Yes, I saw a blank 25.5 pop up the other night.

ThoraX695

05-19-09, 08:08 PM

ThoraX695

05-19-09, 08:14 PM

(I just hit 100 posts and might as well keep posting! :D )

From John Kiesewetter's blog: DirecTV Customers Outraged Over Outage [Monday] Night (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3ab95 67f70-deb9-4086-9af6-8eeb2e505015&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com).

That stinks. It pays to have an over-the-air backup ready to go, especially during May sweeps!

jdhughes63

05-19-09, 10:52 PM

Once again WKRC has dropped out of HD during prime time. This time it was during "Without a Trace". Must be newbies or trainees on the control board late at night.

pjpjpjpj

05-20-09, 09:10 AM

From WKRC's web site (http://www.local12.com/content/special_coverage/story/DTV-Test/mhgOpIHA6Ee257tBV5u5XA.cspx): the next round of DTV tests will occur this Thursday, May 21 at 7:30AM, 12:30PM and 7:30PM. "Other Cincinnati stations" will participate as well.
So, besides taking down analog for a few minutes, will they also have digital up and running (at new, future location)? The website does not say.

XmtrMan

05-20-09, 04:12 PM

So, besides taking down analog for a few minutes, will they also have digital up and running (at new, future location)? The website does not say.

The FCC-mandated "Test" being run is the same as we've already done a couple of times last winter; a tape will play only on the analog transmitter advising that if you see this announcement you are going to need to make other arrangements.

No transmitters will be turned off.

BTW, the "new, future location" of our Digital 12 transmitter is about 4 feet west of Analog 12.

It's already been on-the-air in a test that we publicized here last December. It's next "appearance" will be June 12.

ThoraX695

05-20-09, 06:51 PM

BTW, the "new, future location" of our Digital 12 transmitter is about 4 feet west of Analog 12.

That ought to mess with your projected service contour. :D (See page 5 of the Cincinnati DTV map book. (http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Cincinnati_OH.pdf))

I just hope the weather cooperates for all the tower work that will go on the next several weeks. :cool:

ThoraX695

05-20-09, 07:47 PM

John Kiesewetter says (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3af5e d31f7-c00d-407d-aaf1-a29485945a8a&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com) that "in the next three weeks, Ch 9 will be broadcasting a weaker analog signal as it removes the analog antenna from atop its Walnut Hills tower. By June 12, the analog deadline, Ch 9 should have its new digital antenna installed atop the tower (about 100 feet higher than the current temporary digital antenna), says GM Bill Fee."

But if I'm reading the right plan filed with the FCC (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101299764&formid=387&fac_num=59438) correctly, construction isn't supposed to start until June 12 and is projected to be operational by June 22.

In any case, it looks like WCPO is planning to have their new CP digital antenna up and running not too long after analog shutoff.

Pvee

05-20-09, 10:35 PM

Hi I was wondering if anyone could help with a problem I am having. I just bought a 32" Sharp Aquos LCD with internal HD tuner and I hooked it up to my standard cable and did a scan for digital channels which returned a ton of results. I get NBC hd at channel 5.1 and 64.1 MY64 hd but I can't find Fox HD, ABC hd, or CBS hd. Online it says Fox HD should be 19.1 but that doesn't even come up.

Can anyone help me out?
Thanks

I don't know the condition of the cable wire in your house and how many drops and splitters you have on it, but it may, or may not need upgrading.

We have TWC, formerly Adelphia, out here in Maineville.

I had a similar problem where my basement tv(QAM) got 19.1 and most all the others, but my Samsung up stairs and my wife's new Visio did not get 19.1 and a few others that the downstairs HDTV got ok.

Anyway, I had seven drops off the cable and one rf amp that fed the section with the longest run and two drops.

I recabled the whole house and home runned each of the problem areas back to a single splitter at the point of cable entry. I used new RG6/u cable.

Now all the HDTV's get all the available QAM channels.

On a side note, I finally put my VHF-Hi antenna on the roof and I now get 9.1 and 9.2 OTA.

I have a RCA DTV converter box connected to a small TV, and a Kworld USB DTV tuner and the Kworld seems to have a little hotter receiver than the RCA dtv box.

jimp2244

05-21-09, 07:45 AM

I'm Getting no program listings via TVGoS Digital from WKRC Past Wed 5/20 Early AM via DTV Pal DVR (which usually works out 7 Days -- And, this has been the case Since Last Wednesday )...

I'm wondering if anyone else with different device (other than DTVPal DVR) that supports TVGoS Digital is seeing this issue, or if it's something specific occuring with DTVPal DVR and WKRC's TVGoS digital stream ???
Jeff, I noticed last night when I brought up TVGoS that I have no listings either. I don't use it much so don't know when it started, but I'd guess it's the same issue you're seeing. Actually, the reason I brought it up was to see what I was watching on WXIX since their PSIP listings aren't showing up.

ohiogal

05-21-09, 10:55 AM

i am not even getting think tv 16 signals this morning.

pjpjpjpj

05-21-09, 01:00 PM

BTW, the "new, future location" of our Digital 12 transmitter is about 4 feet west of Analog 12.
By the "new, future location" of digital 12, I meant physical channel 12 instead of physical channel 31 :D ... but since analog isn't being turned off, obviously not happening.

It's already been on-the-air in a test that we publicized here last December.Yeah, wasn't that at like 2 am? :eek:

I was just wondering if this was going to be another of that kind of test. No biggie... I can wait a few more weeks.

Nitewatchman

05-22-09, 01:32 PM

Jeff, I noticed last night when I brought up TVGoS that I have no listings either. I don't use it much so don't know when it started, but I'd guess it's the same issue you're seeing.

Thanks for the reply, Listings from Wed 5/20 --> out to 7 days ahead via WKRC'S TVGoS digital streams (on DTVPal DVR) showed up again here sometime either Tue or Wed Morning after being MIA for several days ....

DTV Pal DVR normally displays TVGoS listings out 7 days (as it is again now/has been since tue or wed morning), but per last post noticed late last week listings were missing beyond early AM 5/20 ... this is the 2nd time I've noticed this has happened when I'm using WKRC as the TVGoS Digital source, I haven't noticed it occuring when I've had it set up to use WHIO's TVGoS digital streams, and I was wondering whether or not it was an issue specific to WKRC's stream which also effected other devices besides DTVPal DVR which support TVGoS digital

.... Unfortunetly, AFAIK, there are no diagnostic tools available that might give a clue to what may or may not going on with the TVGoS streams, nor are there documents available such as ATSC's documents for our DTV or PSIP standards (a/53, a/65, etc ) ..... I don't think there are many other devices that do, but I do think there are some HDTV's out there now which do support TVGoS digital ...

DTV Pal DVR does not support the analog TVGoS info which was previously sent by analog PBS stations in the area via their VBI (and perhaps still do via cable feeds I do not know)...

Also, For some reason since sometime in Feburary, for Cincy, DTV Pal DVR is only working for listings from WKRC's TVGoS digital streams for WCPO, WKRC, WSTR, WCVN or WKON(KET1 only for either), and WCET (48.1 with correct info, 48.2 with incorrect PBS "world" program info instead of for "create" as it should be) ..... Prior to sometime in Feburary, however, I'd also get listings for Dayton stations (but only WHIO, WPTD,WKEF, WBDT, and maybe WKOI) as well from WKRC's stream, including if I input a Cincy DMA Zip code .... The same was true for cincy stations if I used WHIO for the TVGoS info, but input a Dayton DMA Zip (DTV Pal DVR only allows you to input one zip code) ... In any case, also, for some reason, there are no TVGoS listings that "work" with DTVPal DVR for Dayton or Cincinnati for either market's NBC or Fox affiliate ...

Anyway, With DTVPal DVR, if it can't find or use the TVGoS data for the guide for any station's "subchannel" you are receiving, it displays guide info from PSIP EIT's, but of course very few stations provide as much as 7 days of EPG info via that method, many only provide the FCC required 12 hours, and some seem to frequently have problems even doing that .... Of course, LP's aren't (currently) required to send any PSIP info(although WOTH does send some anyway, but not the EIT's - they send VCT info as well as currently unfortunetly incorrect time info in STT), and given TVGoS isn't (apparently) providing WOTH-LD's programming info, I get no guide info for them anyway ...

blbrodbeck

05-22-09, 09:12 PM

Is anyone else having trouble receiving Ch. 9-1 & 9-2 tonight? Could it be the heat, or humidity affecting reception?

robmadden1

05-25-09, 08:34 PM

We will be getting WDTN 2 from dayton when they upgrade after June 12th. So this mean if WLWt 5 is premting national programing you may get beable to get it on WDTN after June 12th.

Look at the power they will have after the 12th.

WDTN OH DAYTON USA (Digital)

Licensee: WDTN BROADCASTING, LLC
Service Designation: DT Digital television station

Channel: 50 686 - 692 MHz Licensed
File No.: BLCDT-20050629AAL Facility ID number: 65690
CDBS Application ID No.: 1070258

39° 43' 7.00 " N Latitude Site in Canadian Border Zone
84° 15' 22.00" W Longitude (NAD 27)

Polarization: Horizontal (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 1000. kW ERP
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 323. meters HAAT -- Calculate HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 589. meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 298. meters AGL

ncincy1

05-26-09, 06:50 AM

robmadden1

05-26-09, 11:03 AM

ncincy1 WTDN is already approved. Look here: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=65690 last one on the list.

robmadden1

05-26-09, 11:07 AM

Not sure about WDTN, but now know for sure that WBDT (Dayton's CW) DT 26 was approved on 05/21 for the full power of 770K!

This will put a very good signal into Cincinnati after the transition on June 12.:)

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1251282.html

Look out Local 12.2 - we will soon (hopefully) be able to watch The CW in HD vs. SD!

Also, looks like WKEF (Dayton's ABC) has applied for more "juice" after the transition.

Stay tuned - I'm sure Nitewatchman can provide details and keep us informed, as usual.

Since they want to join Cincinnati with Dayton like Dallas FT Worth why not make THE CW from Dayton the the main CW for both cities. It would be a good idea to do it because 12.2 will lose most over the air veiwer for primetime show sincxe most will beable to get THE CW from Dayton after their power increase.

What do y"all think of this idea?

pjpjpjpj

05-26-09, 12:04 PM

There's only one show I watch on The CW anyway - and it's the channel 12 local morning show after channel 12 switches to national feed at 7 am. And I doubt Dayton will want to watch that. :)

So, while I will be happy to add another channel to the lineup - in the rare instance that something might be on there in HD that I would want to record - I will probably just end up hoping that the "merger" will never happen, lest I lose the channel 12 local morning news.

On the other hand, I guess my wife's "America's Next Top Model" will be available in HD.... hmmm... models in HD.... maybe not such a bad thing after all. ;) :D

Nitewatchman

05-26-09, 02:32 PM

WDTN-DT is already running the 1000KW ERP facility mentioned above, as they have been for several years, that's what the "licensed" status means ...

Dayton and Cincinnati DMA's are seperate DMA's regardless of the fact that most stations in both markets cover the majority of the population in both markets with their OTA signal. Intentionally, apparently, otherwise I'd think you'd see more use of some pretty big nulls in Directional antenna patterns towards Major Population areas in the other market. Therefore, for example, just about anyone In Cincinnati or N KY (south to about Florence) can put up an antenna, aim it towards Dayton and watch the Dayton stations OTA -- WBDT digital is a bit of an exception to that currently, but that should change with the maximization of their signal ...

Commercial Stations have exclusivity rights for distrubuting network programming within their market(such as for cable carriage). Any "merger" of Dayton and Cincinnati markets would likely mean there could be only ONE affiliate in the entire market for each network (such as CBS ...) ... If such a thing should ever happen, I don't know what they'd do with the "other station" (such as say either WKRC or WHIO, both which are currently CBS) .....

ncincy1

05-26-09, 04:21 PM

I follow the FCC database and the DTV Transition Maps on "Rabbit Ears" website so I feel fairly up-to-date.
Jeff/Rob: You guys are one of the few that are always on top of everything - Note: I saw Jeff's post regarding WBDT and decided to share it last night.
My real excitement was just in the approval for WBDT to maximize their signal and get The CW in HD - I get everything else from both Cincinnati and Dayton with an attic-mount antenna.
With WBDT after June 12 everything will be good!
Am I incorrect, but looking at the post-transiton maps it seems that WRGT (DT) will be the only one of the Dayton "big networks" with the least strong signal - in particular to the south of Dayton. Is this true?
Again, thanks everyone - sorry for "mixing" it up with questions relative to both the Cincinnati AND Dayton boards, but when you live on the Hamillton/Butler County line it's easy to do.:)

jimp2244

05-26-09, 10:55 PM

WXIX (Fox 19) is having audio problems tonight. Turned on 19-1 and saw Steve Horstmeyer pointing at graphics saying "audio problems caused by power surge 'or something' please stand by." Noticed that audio on 19 analog is fine, as well as 19-2. The folks at WXIX don't seem to understand the problem at this point... Trish and Dan keep saying different people are experiencing different problems, and it's fine in some places. The problem is fairly simple... audio on 19-2 is just a tone. Cable/satellite customers will see the problem if their provider uses the digital feed (or down converts it as the "analog" feed), but if th ey use the analog feed, they will not experience the problem.

robertjchambers

05-26-09, 11:06 PM

Even with WBDT's power increase, most Cincinnati viewers won't get it unless Time Warner picks up the feed, which is unlikely. If I'm correct, TWC doesn't even carry the HD feeds of the Dayton networks in Butler county (where they carry the SD feeds of most Dayton stations).

However, my TiVo is finding WDTN-DT coming through via cablecard on ch. 902 here in Cincinnati. It comes in when I type in the channel on 'their' box, but doesn't show up in the guide.

I've also noticed TWC is testing even more HD channels, including MLB-HD (1785) and Smithsonian HD (1791). I haven't checked them on 'their' boxes yet, but they now show up on the master channel list on my TiVo (without guide data)

jimp2244

05-26-09, 11:08 PM

Audio was fixed around 10:54, just after I posted the above. They did have a chat session going on throughout the news so it's fairly easy to see where it started and stopped:

10:25
Dan Carroll: test
10:26
Dan Carroll: we had some kind of power issue
10:27
[Comment From Justin Parlier]
yeah i was watching and it just went out :(
10:28
[Comment From Glen]
Still no audio from Fox19

10:29
[Comment From Niki]
I saw a flash of light from my window and then only fox 19 was off. My street light went out at the same time. 10:30
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitter_production/profile_images/79873980/235277_G_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/FOX19SteveH)FOX19SteveH: Hey FOX19 chatters - a big power issue here at FOX19 - we do n ot know what happened so stay with us please!
10:31
[Comment From owensville - connie]
the beeeeeep hurts my ears

10:54
[Comment From Guest]
I can hear and see you!! 10:55
[Comment From Amber from Ft.Thomas]
I got sound and video

10:55
[Comment From Roger / West Union]
Sound and picture are back! Woooohoooo!!

jimp2244

05-26-09, 11:15 PM

Even with WBDT's power increase, most Cincinnati viewers won't get it unless Time Warner picks up the feed, which is unlikely.With the power increase, WBDT will join the other Dayton stations in having a coverage area that includes the entire city limits of Cincinnati and even into parts of Northern Kentucky. Anyone within the contour map should be able to put up an antenna and receive WBDT-DT.

If I'm correct, TWC doesn't even carry the HD feeds of the Dayton networks in Butler county (where they carry the SD feeds of most Dayton stations). They don't, because cable and satellite work off of DMAs (Designated Market Areas). DMAs do not overlap, but broadcasts from TV transmission tower do. The stations that Pay-TV viewers receive are dependent on agreements that are in place (retransmission consent, etc.), which is why some "border" areas may receive stations from both Cincinnati and Dayton in some instances, and not in others.

robmadden1

05-26-09, 11:44 PM

Is 25 off the air? I can't recieve it. 25.1 -25.5

Bill R (# 2)

05-27-09, 11:33 AM

Is 25 off the air? I can't receive it. 25.1 -25.5

I can't receive it either over here in Northern Ky (normally I get about a 65 on my DTV signal meter). I called the station and they said that they are not aware of any problems. All my other OTA digital channels are fine.

jimp2244

05-27-09, 01:49 PM

I had trouble with 25 WOTH-LD last night as well. Adjusted my antenna a bit and it came in OK, but lower on the signal meter than usual.

robmadden1

05-27-09, 02:27 PM

Just called WKRP they said they have a guy working on the transmiter because it was having problems. The guy I talked to said it should be up in a half hr. If its not on by 4pm they want us to call them and let them know.

Splicer010

05-27-09, 02:51 PM

Well it is on now...And was on for the hour I watched a FBI show from 1-2PM today also...Then...as now...'Daytime' came on...

robmadden1

05-27-09, 03:04 PM

Splicer010 no its not here in Delhi. As of 3pm I still can't get it and I did a rescan using my indoor radioshack antenna that I normaly can get 25.1-25.5 on.

robmadden1

05-27-09, 04:11 PM

At 4pm called back (WKRP) and they have a new issue. They think it might have to do with the work they are doing ont channel 9's tower since they are on it but not 100% sure. They did say people with outdoor antennas can get them but people with indoor antenna's cant as of right now. They think they may have it fixed by tonight or by tommorow. I they guy when i sugested it may have to do with the power surge 19 got last night and he said he could not rule that out as of yet.

Splicer010

05-27-09, 04:27 PM

Still on here in Blanchester...However after reading that indoor antenna are the ones having problems I checked my signal strength...Come to find out that the signal level is poor while the quality is high enough to still provide reliable viewing...

This is the antenna I use:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=U4000

robmadden1

05-27-09, 04:52 PM

I like you antenna. Could it be used indoors since I live in a condo and put up an outdoor antenna?

Splicer010

05-27-09, 05:49 PM

I should think you can as long as you have some place to put it; it works VERY well...;)

robmadden1

05-27-09, 10:26 PM

As of 10:24pm still can't get 25.1-25.5 but can get 2.1-2.2 now from Dayton with my Radio Shack indoor antenna.

Bill R (# 2)

05-28-09, 08:53 AM

As of 10:24pm still can't get 25.1-25.5.

Same here in Northern Ky. this Thursday morning with an outdoor antenna.

Splicer010

05-28-09, 09:35 AM

No problem this AM with 25-1 thru 25-5...Still no signal reading but the quality is high enough that even in this weather I have reliable reception...Now 25-5 is freezing every few seconds and blacks out every 30 seconds to a minute but that is not a reception problem it is being transmitted that way...all other channels are fine...

robmadden1

05-28-09, 12:21 PM

As of 3:33pm still no 25.1-25.5 here in Delhi on my indoor antenna.

Nitewatchman

05-28-09, 04:22 PM

Can Just barely decode WOTH-LD currently here and for the past couple of days .... Mostly solidly, but just barely .... I'm between Middletown+Germantown, Oh in a small/steep valley(there are attenuation issues from terrain+lots of trees) about 15 Miles SW of Downtown Dayton, and 32 miles North of WCPO tower ..

I Did have at least 10dB or a bit more overhead with WOTH-LD's signal, so past couple of days it now seems about 10dB or so weaker than usual here ....

If they are running at reduced power (rather than having an issue with SNR/EVM/MER/etc), I Would be very interested in knowing their current ERP .... (15kW -10dB of course would be about 1.5KW ERP) ...

Splicer010

05-28-09, 04:40 PM

@ 4:33PM 25-3 went off air...All other channels stayed up...

Nitewatchman

05-28-09, 05:25 PM

Am I incorrect, but looking at the post-transiton maps it seems that WRGT (DT) will be the only one of the Dayton "big networks" with the least strong signal - in particular to the south of Dayton. Is this true?

They do have a Null in their pattern to the South, but the predicted 41dBu contour (coverage area, more or less) still reaches into N Ky (about to Florence) :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT421344.html

There is 1st adjacent channel interference protection issue involved given the seperation distance involved between WRGT-DT 30/WXIX-DT 29, and perhaps that may have something to do with their null to the south .....

FCC does not usually allow 1st adjacent channel operation in a case such as this, but did in this case for some reason when developing the original DTV table of allotments(for during the transition) ... Perhaps involving the limited amount of spectrum available pre-transition for fitting in BOTH the analog and digital stations, and also perhaps because both are Fox affiliates had something to do with it ...

WRGT did originally elect 45 during first round of channel elections (for post-transition) , but received an interference conflict notice from FCC, and changed their election to remain on 30 .... The channel election rules were such that stations which elected to remain on their pre-transition DTV channel had interference protection from other stations, but stations which elected to move to their analog channel assignment had to protect other stations from interference (stations such as say, WXIN-DT 45 Indianapolis) .....

Anyway, the null to the South for WRGT's 425KW (DA) ERP facility = about 30KW~60KW ERP squirted in that direction, Vs, for example, 1.5~2KW ERP from the current WBDT-DT 18 digital facility .... That's a fairly big (12~15dB) difference, and only about 4~6dB or so less from WRGT than from WBDT post transition, which will be about 150KW ERP squirted towards the South - Which is about 20dB more than WBDT currently squirts towards the South(that IS a big difference) and about the same as WKEF-DT/WPTD-DT's current non-DA .....

It's important to remember that each doubling of power - regardless if it's going from 1 watt to 2 watts, or 500KW to 1000KW is only a 3dB increase (about the same as removing a 2 way splitter on your end), but you can easily have 20dB attenuation by having receive antenna under the roof instead of above it ....

ThoraX695

05-28-09, 07:30 PM

From John Kiesewetter's blog (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a4e1 ea827-c3b3-4d11-a0f6-ebd681a654da&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com)...

On June 12, 2009, these stations will shut off their analog signals:

WCPO - 12:01 AM
WKRC - 2:00 AM
WXIX - 6:00 AM
WLWT - 11:59 PM

WCPO needs to get a head start so they can get their new CP antenna installed on top of their tower where their analog antenna currently resides. John says that they'll have it installed by June 19 (correcting what he reported a few days ago), which corresponds to what WCPO's filing to the FCC reported.

WKRC is probably going early because WDKY in Danville, KY is switching over to RF 31 from RF 4.

Both WBQC and W36DG will remain analog. Has WOTH permanently shut down analog on 25 or have they just reduced their power to a trickle?

Nitewatchman

05-28-09, 08:04 PM

@ 4:33PM 25-3 went off air...All other channels stayed up...

RTN from WBQC-LD currently(8pm EDT) on 47-13 (w/o VCT info) or 25-513 (with VCT info) ....

robmadden1

05-28-09, 10:31 PM

As of 10:30pm I still can't get 25.1-25.5 here in Delhi on my indoor antenna,

Splicer010

05-28-09, 11:01 PM

As of 11PM with heavy downpours and lightning/thunder...25 still comes in here in Blanchester...Signal level has not changed...

rvillalvag

05-29-09, 10:41 AM

Hello everyone,

I had been asking about antenna options and wanted to post an update. I live in an apartment near Park Hills in Northern Kentucky and had been having trouble getting good antenna reception, especially since I have no north facing windows and cannot use an outdoor antenna.

Yesterday I received a Terk HDTVa (similar to the Phillips Silver sensor and less thatn $40 on Amazon) and installed it. At first I hooked it up without the amplifier (not that good of an experience with them) and did not work that well. But after I hooked up the amplifier, I was able to get all the local digital channels without having to re-orient the antenna in any way, and was even able to still pick up KET. This was during last nights downpour. I put the antenna on top of a bookshelf near a wall that faces south, orienting the antenna towards the north (I don't have a compass, so I don't know how precise was the set up).

In any case, I wanted to let you know what worked for me, in case some others have similar problems and also to thank those who gave me input with this problem.

robmadden1

05-29-09, 02:20 PM

Called WKRP got an update. They are working on the transmitor. They lost alot of power to it from a piece on the transmitor breaking. They will have it fixed ASAP.

Nitewatchman

05-30-09, 02:00 PM

Noticed Yesterday/Last night RTN is back on 25.3 (47.3 w/o PSIP) instead of 25.513(47.13 w/o PSIP) as it was for a time Thursday night ....

Also notice they now have EPG info via PSIP EITs available on 25.2 ("WKRP-TV") out at least 14~16 hours or so - don't see any EPG info for 25.1, 25.3, or 25.4 (25.5 not currently present) ...

However, since WOTH-LD's STT (System Time Table) time info is wrong, some receivers probably won't display the EPG info. Or as has been the case since they came on air, for some receivers, when using WOTH-LD's STT to set their clock for a "grid" type guide display the wrong time info will "mess up" the guide(such as including for other stations guide info) info alltogether given the wrong Time info that is being sent ....

How STT and GPS time works and how it is used for PSIP STT is described in ATSC PSIP (A65) documents ... Info on structure of PSIP STT (system time table) can be found in section 6.1(page 22~23), and more info on GPS time can be found in section 7 "GPS Time" beginning on page 124 of the current A65C document, available here for (Free) download :

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_65cr1_with_amend_1.pdf

Here's some info from Page 24 about STT GPS/UTC offset and Daylight Savings time :

GPS_UTC_offset — An 8-bit unsigned integer that defines the current offset in whole seconds between GPS and UTC time standards. To convert GPS time to UTC, the GPS_UTC_offset is subtracted from GPS time. Whenever the International Bureau of Weights and Measures decides that the current offset is too far in error, an additional leap second may be added (or subtracted), and the GPS_UTC_offset will reflect the change.

daylight_savings — Daylight Savings Time Control bytes. Refer to Annex A for the use of these two bytes.

For the "current" time and date (1:33:26PM EDT 5/30/09 or 17:33:26 UTC), the correct STT info should be (as shown by TSReader in this case from WKRC's STT, it looks that way for all other stations that are sending correct STT info as well ):

2009/05/30 17:33:26 -- [Note: This is of course the current correct UTC/GMT time]

STT: GPS/UTC offset : 14
STT: DS Status 1 DS Day of Month: 0 DS Hour : 0

But WOTH-LD's STT is being sent (incorrectly) as follows :

2009/05/30 13:35:00

STT GPS/UTC offset : 0
STT: DS Status:0 DS Day of month :0 DS Hour : 0

This results in a receiver(such as my Zenith DTT900) set up for Eastern Time Zone using WOTH-LD's STT info to display it's Date/time info to Currently display/use(including for it's "guide" display) the incorrect time of :

Sat may 30 2009, 8:35 AM ...

About 5 hours earlier than the "actual" current time, since the receiver is subtracting 5 hours from local time(although that is inaccurate as well, as it's 1 Min 34 seconds ahead of the actual local time) rather than UTC or "GPS time" --- And it's doing it -5 hours for a receiver set up for Eastern Standard Time not -4 hours for EDT, since their Daylight Savings Status is currently set to "0" in STT ...

Whereas, The same receiver shows the time correctly as set from WKRC's STT (when receiver is "tuned" to WRKC-DT) as :

Saturday May 30, 2009 1:33:26 PM ..

They certainly don't make this stuff "easy" , Simply using UTC/GMT (or something close to it() and having the receiver do the offset per time zone/DST etc would certianly seem easier + I think "accurate enough", whether or not it is or isn't "off by 14 seconds" or so per GPS/UTC offset, it seems to me, given, practically speaking and so far it's not exactly uncommon for stations STT to not be accurate within 1 second of GPS time, as the Rules require, LOL ....

and In fact, before PSIP was mandated for Full service stations as "required by FCC" in 2005, we had some Full service stations Not sending ANY PSIP, some sending PSIP, and many NOT sending proper or accurate STT/EIT info ... That made for a real mess for viewers and receivers to sort out, and That's why, back then it was nice to just "turn off" PSIP on my Old DTC-100 .....

Can't really fault WOTH-LD too much for getting the STT info "wrong" at this early stage for them, especially since they aren't "required" by FCC to send any PSIP info -- Problem is though, they are nevertheless sending some PSIP info including STT(as they have since first coming on air), and wrong STT info(even when they weren't sending any EITs) can screw up the guide info for other stations as well on some receivers, when say, WOTH-LD was the "last" station that was tuned to ....

Oh, on another note, I don't know, but I'm thinking their TSID value of "1" (I don't even know if ATSC will assign a "valid" TSID to a LP), rather than a "valid" TSID # may be the reason why some receivers which normally implement the channel mapping won't display the VCT numbers (won't "remap" them to 25.x ...) -- As is the case with my Zenith HDV420 .... Might be something else, but I can't find any other explanation for this at this point, as except for the TSID, the info in their PSIP VCT(virtual channel table) seems correct, and they also are sending proper Service Location Descriptors .... This is just one of the things that can happen without required receiver standards ....

----------

Update: different topic, but notice after being down several days, W36DG(analog) is back on air (currently) ...

513Tech

06-02-09, 02:08 PM

On my Zenith box I pick up 32 channels (all locals and Dayton 2.1-2.2) but no 25.1-25.5.

ShaneWKRP

06-02-09, 02:47 PM

robmadden1

06-02-09, 06:38 PM

As of 6:38pm still cant get 25.1-25.5 in Delhi on my Sharp LCD TV with my indoor antenna.

ShaneWKRP

06-02-09, 06:48 PM

As of 6:38pm still cant get 25.1-25.5 in Delhi on my Sharp LCD TV with my indoor antenna.

Were you able to receive it prior tot a week or so ago?

ncincy1

06-02-09, 06:50 PM

Same here in Sharonville - got it great last week - "no dice" this week. I just rescanned...
I miss my RTN!!!

ThoraX695

06-02-09, 07:02 PM

Some additional transmitter maintenance was just done. If you get the opportunity, re-scan and see if you have any success picking us up now.

We're eager to see if we have the problem handled!

WOTH-LD has been coming in solid on my main roof antenna. However, I lost it while you were doing your transmitter maintenance on the set in my kitchen with a unamplified set-top antenna. But it's back now. Plus I see you've added some channel guide information for RTN-25. (However, the time is still five hours behind as Nitewatchman pointed out a few days ago.)

Side note: John Keisweller reports (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3aa1c b16dd-56eb-40d9-b473-5f57b648c86d&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com) that your boss is "shutting off analog 'a couple days after' the June 12 deadline, because nobody would be watching analong [sic] here."