Were you able to receive it prior tot a week or so ago?

Yes at a weak signal in the 40's. A few weeks before that my signal was in the 60's.

Now nothing at all.

From my radio shack indoor antenna i am revicing these at 3:56am:
wdtn2.1-2.2
wttv 4
wttv 4.1
whas 11
whtr 13
wtiu 30
wlky 32
fox 41 louisville
wclj 42.1-42.5
wxin 59
wipx 63
wipx 63.1-63.4
Seriously, Rob, do you sleep, or do you just scan for TV reception 24/7? 3:56 am? Really? :)

Also I am currently receiving some Indianapolis stations... I will add pictures later. The below digitals were very watchable for quite some time. Analog WTHR was crystal clear for quite a while as well. (snip)


During the monsoon, no less? Wow. Around that time here in Evendale it looked like the Gulf Coast in August. Rain gauge had 2.5" this morning, just since about 9 pm last night.

With my converter box off I picked up analog ch. 22, 26, 38 and 45. Still no ch. 25 digital signal.

Here, Last night, WOTH-LD's signal was a little better (probably by a few dB or so, but I didn't check it other than via receiver's signal meters) than it was the past week here, after the work yesterday, but still nowhere near what it was before the issues occuring over the last week or so .....

Today so far, things seem worse than they've ever been as for the first time for the most part I can't decode it/it's mostly just below threshold ... I might be able to remove some splitters or such and decode them, but I don't have time right now to crawl into attic/etc to test that .....

No reception at all of channel 25 here...

No reception at all of channel 25 here...

Same here in Northern Ky. I talked to someone at the station today and they are aware that there is still a problem.

Hi All,

I'm located in Hamilton, and currently have a set-top antenna that will allow me to receive some OTA channels on my Directv HD DVR. I can get Digital 5, 12, 14, 19, 48 and 64. I can't receive 9, 54 or any Dayton stations.

(Actually, isn't 9 broadcasting at reduced power now? I imagine that I'll get it fine, too, once the power is increased.)

I am looking for recommendations for an outdoor antenna. Ideally, I'd be able to get good reception of all Cin & Dayton stations without a rotor. These are 138 degrees apart.

One particular issue is that two of the Cincinnati stations are VHF (10 &12), but these are high powered, and only 19 miles away, LOS path.

Another issue is that there are adjacent channels at 29 (Cincinnati, 19 miles, LOS) and 30 (Dayton, 28 miles, 1Edge path).

Solidsignal recommended the Antennas Direct C2. I'm wondering if the if the DB4 or DB8 would offer a wider beam width, and better results. I'm attaching the TVFool plot for my location.

Also, is there anyone that you can recommend for installation. I realize that most AVSers do their own, but I'm the sort of person who usually ends up paying to have this kind of project completed, even if I start it myself.

Thanks.

Hi All,

I'm located in Hamilton, and currently have a set-top antenna that will allow me to receive some OTA channels on my Directv HD DVR. I can get Digital 5, 12, 14, 19, 48 and 64. I can't receive 9, 54 or any Dayton stations.

(Actually, isn't 9 broadcasting at reduced power now? I imagine that I'll get it fine, too, once the power is increased.)

I am looking for recommendations for an outdoor antenna. Ideally, I'd be able to get good reception of all Cin & Dayton stations without a rotor.

Solidsignal recommended the Antennas Direct C2. I'm wondering if the if the DB4 or DB8 would offer a wider beam width, and better results. I'm attaching the TVFool plot for my location.

Also, is there anyone that you can recommend for installation. I realize that most AVSers do their own, but I'm the sort of person who usually ends up paying to have this kind of project completed, even if I start it myself.

Thanks.

A DB4 would probably be a good fit for you, but since you are receiving from two directions that are somewhat opposite, you would want an antenna that is not reflected (no screen behind the elements). Also, in general, the wider apart the elements, the more narrow the reception field, so a DB8 would probably be more harmful to your cause than a DB4. You could buy a DB4 and not install the reflector, but since they are so simple at that point, you could just make your own - similar to the infamous youtube video instructions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw). Obviously, with an outdoor installation, you would need to weatherproof it. And, of course, ground it (sorry, I will defer to those more knowledgeable on grounding).

You could try removing the screen reflector from the C2, but I believe I remember reading that loop antennas really lose a LOT of reception without a reflector. I could be, uh, "mis-remembering", though. But with the C2, as with the DB4, if you leave on the reflector, you will only get good reception from one direction.

Note that you are most likely not getting channel 9 (10) now because it is VHF and your antenna on your TV is likely UHF-only. After 6/12, you will presumably not get channel 12 either, since it is moving to VHF (31 to 12). So you would probably need a separate antenna setup for those channels - though I somehow manage to get VHF on my "supposedly UHF only" homemade DB4 (granted, I live closer to town - I have been told that the VHF signals just "power through" because I live so close). I notice that the C2 claims to get VHF-high... if it did, and still did okay without a reflector, then that would presumably be a decent option.

Also, is there anyone that you can recommend for installation. I realize that most AVSers do their own, but I'm the sort of person who usually ends up paying to have this kind of project completed, even if I start it myself.I'd suggest TNT Picture Company. They did my installation which included a medium sized Winegard VHF/UHF combo antenna and a rotor (presets for Cincinnati and Dayton). They are definitely a small time operation but I was happy with their work.

http://www.tntpicturecompany.com/

Someone said here recently that Ch. 38 analogue will be going off the air soon. I hope they'll at least stay on the air until they get WOTH digital channels right again. Also, this means they'll be nothing associated with "Ch. 38" on television here anymore. Does Elliot still intend to Broadcast a digital Ch. 38? If so, any time frame? I've read here it was supposed to be on UHF 20, than re-mapped to 38.

Someone said here recently that Ch. 38 analogue will be going off the air soon. I hope they'll at least stay on the air until they get WOTH digital channels right again. Also, this means they'll be nothing associated with "Ch. 38" on television here anymore. Does Elliot still intend to Broadcast a digital Ch. 38? If so, any time frame? I've read here it was supposed to be on UHF 20, than re-mapped to 38.

That was me, how this play out will be interesting. Next Friday will go down a D(tv)Day

They're up for RTN 25 and Jewelry TV! See http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/basic.aspx?siteid=49826.

Ok, Temporarily removed a 2 way splitter, and can decode WOTH-LD (barely) here currently with it removed ... (keep in mind, I'm using CM7778 mast mount preamp, so removing a splitter isn't quite the same as it would be if I weren't using a amp) .... In a way, it's nice to have an apparently really weak local DTV signal to work with (I'd estimate probably about -100~ -105dBm in free space w/o antenna's gain/etc) to mess around a bit with the antenna stuff+see how well stuff is working ...

Anyway, Notice WOTH-LD now has EPG info in PSIP EITs out about 2 or 3 days for all 4 of the currently available program services (25.1~4), but their STT time info is still wrong by - 4 hours 59 Minutes, 37 Seconds, so again, many receivers might not display the guide info (or not display it properly) .... For example, DTV Pal DVR is showing the EPG info 'correctly'-* I think, (as it's clock is set TVGoS info from WKRC's TVGoS streams), but currently at 7:40PM EDT, Zenith DTT-900's (set for "eastern time") is showing EPG info for 25.1~4 for the ~2:30pm programs from earlier today .....

* - update/correction - Looks like the time info in EIT's are wrong by an hour as well ... For example, it shows "Knight Rider" for 7:59~8:59 PM, but it's actually on 6:59pm~7:59pm .... (or 7~8pm or whatever) ..... Same thing for the "racing" currently on (7:50pm) 25.1, it shows it not coming on until 8pm ....

Oh, also note that on Zenith DTT900, I can "see" some of the "now/Next" program guide info for the "proper current time" by tuning to another station(with the correct Time info in their STT, as is the case for all other stations in our area) and using the "guide" button(now/next info with no detailed program descriptions), and then looking at the info for 25.1~4 .....

Anyway, hope they're able to get it worked out without too much difficulty, it is pretty cool they're sending info out as much as 3 days or so, especially since FCC doesn't require they send any PSIP data at all ... Also, Many FULL service stations only meet their FCC required 12 hours of EPG data via PSIP ....

As of reading Jeffs post @ 8:02PM and checking for programming I now currently receive 25-1 thru -4 reliably as usual...And as usual the signal strength is non existing but the quality is enough to provide reliable reception...:)

Also just as Jeff said...it appears that there is now programming info on all 4 channels...Albeit the wrong program info not to mention the time is off by 5 hours (says 3:02 when it is 8:02) but i digress...

Progress again!!! Keep it up WOTH!!! You have quickly become one of my favorite stations...

Update...Reception not as reliable as I had first thought...Had several breakups already...Still better than no reception at all as has been the case for the last few days...;)

Progress again!!! Keep it up WOTH!!! You have quickly become one of my favorite stations...

They've been one of my favorites ever since their "Network One" Days .... (Early 90's) ... ;)

Lost all 25-1 thry -4 channels as of 9:33PM...:(

Lost all 25-1 thry -4 channels as of 9:33PM...:(

It looks like they're off the air. I'm not getting any signal from them. 38, 9 analog, and 9 digital look normal though.

It looks like they're off the air. I'm not getting any signal from them. 38, 9 analog, and 9 digital look normal though.

OK. At 10:31 PM, they're back. Although the signal is weaker (5/11 bars instead of 8/11 I get on my Samsung).

OK. At 10:31 PM, they're back. Although the signal is weaker (5/11 bars instead of 8/11 I get on my Samsung).

...and at 10:55 PM, they went off again. The signal dropped to 2/11 bars for a bit.

They've been one of my favorites ever since their "Network One" Days .... (Early 90's) ... ;)

I remember those days that when 25 had wrestling on 4 or 5 times a week. Also Anime, Westerns and Music Videos.

Damn, I'm old. I remember the Wrestling from the mid 60's with Bobo Brazil, Flying Fred Curry, etc and it was sponsored locally by the "Rinks Brothers". We didn't yet have a color TV so I can't guess whether it was broadcast in color or not. Haystacks Calhoun and the Arkansas twist! That's how I remember it anyway. I also remember my neighbor about killing me with a camel clutch he learned from "The Sheik".

Or was it "Wild Bull Curry" and the sleeper hold? :confused:

My goodness!!! "The Rinks Brothers!!!:eek:

I haven't heard about or thought about them in decades!!!

I know...I'm showing my age too...;)

Thats before my time I do remember the buy rite kid furniture commercials in the 80's.

Just a heads-up, everyone. The problem with digital channel 25 has been isolated. It's not an easy one, though. Our transmitter's in as good shape as ever, but there is an issue with the line that feeds our antenna. Problems located up on the tower are always a tough fix, so bear with us please.

Thanks to Nitewatchman, 513Tech, Thorax, and everyone else for all the kind words and input. You guys are our eyes and ears in the field and we really appreciate it!

-Shane

Thanks for the update - the passion you guys have for keeping this station on air and unique/diverse program offerings is most appreciated by your fans and loyal viewers.
Note: I planned to visit you and Elliott last Friday pm but will wait until things get back to normal -maybe around mid-week.
Jack

Just a heads-up, everyone. The problem with digital channel 25 has been isolated. It's not an easy one, though. Our transmitter's in as good shape as ever, but there is an issue with the line that feeds our antenna. Problems located up on the tower are always a tough fix, so bear with us please.

This is good news. Hopefully you can get everything fixed before WCPO starts their work. You're getting the party started early. :cool:

I'm very happy to read Shane's comment explaining WOTH's problems with their digital signals. I just hope you're back up before midnight tomorrow night -- I don't want to miss my daily fix of two Alfred Hitchcock Presents programs!

I live on the west side of Butler County, and have been pleasantly surprised with the ease I usually have picking up WOTH! Must be a fluke, but it's better than WCPO right now, as well as any Dayton station.

:confused:Questions for Shane: The TitanTV listings which just started showing RTN programming also are showing what is clearly White Springs TV programming on 25.4, even though that's been Jewelry TV for many weeks. Is this just a glitch, or is White Springs returning? And why does "Skyline" on 25.5 keep showing up periodically? Will this resume, or will 25.5 have some actual programming on it -- White Springs, perhaps? :confused:

No DTV 25 for me yet.

The TitanTV listings which just started showing RTN programming also are showing what is clearly White Springs TV programming on 25.4, even though that's been Jewelry TV for many weeks. Is this just a glitch, or is White Springs returning? And why does "Skyline" on 25.5 keep showing up periodically? Will this resume, or will 25.5 have some actual programming on it -- White Springs, perhaps? :confused:

TitanTV gets their program data from FYI Television. FYI TV was notified back in April of the switch from White Springs to Jewelry TV. FYI TV never updated the information I sent them, which explains why TitanTV's information was incorrect.

Thanks.
Matt

Thanks, Matt!

Any update on when WOTH's digital signal will resume? Or whether anything is planned for the sporadic 25.5 subchannel on a permanent basis?

From John Kiesewetter's blog (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a4e1 ea827-c3b3-4d11-a0f6-ebd681a654da&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com)...

On June 12, 2009, these stations will shut off their analog signals:


WCPO - 12:01 AM
WKRC - 2:00 AM
WXIX - 6:00 AM
WLWT - 11:59 PM



Those times also agree with what those stations told FCC in Filings...

Also, WLWT's "Analog Service Termination Notification" Form they sent to FCC indicates They Intend to Nightlight until 7/12/09 .... See #6 and #7 on the form(PDF warning I think), which is here :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101301106&formid=910&fac_num=46979

-----------------

According to those forms (or updates to them), WLWT appears to be the only station that will be nightlighting in Cincinnati Or Dayton .... suppose we'll see soon if that's "changed" ....

As long as I dug through these and am posting, Here's what the Dayton stations "Analog Service Termination Notifications" (or updates, as WDTN filed an update May 11 to specify 6:01AM to 12PM instead of the 6PM~11:59 PM they had previously indicated for the shut off time) :

WDTN 2 - June 12, 2009 - 6:01AM~12PM - NO Nightlight

WHIO 7 - June 12, 2009 - 11:59:59PM - NO Nightlight

WKEF 22 - June 12, 2009 - 6PM~11:59PM - No Nightlight

WBDT 26 - June 12, 2009 - 6:01Am~Noon - No Nightlight

WRGT 45 - June 12, 2009 - 6pm~11:59pm - No Nightlight

------------------

Few others I checked which I was interested in :

WAVE 3 Louisville - June 12, 2009 - 12AM~6AM - NO Nightlight

WCMH 4 Columbus - June 12, 2009 - 6pm~11:59PM - No Nightlight

WSYX 6 Columbus - June 12, 2009 - 6:01PM-11:59Pm - NO Nightlight

WRTV 6 Indianapolis - June 12, 2009 - 12AM~6AM - No Nightlight

WBNS 10 Columbus - June 12, 2009 - 6:01PM~11:59PM - No Nightlight

WLEX 18 Lexington - June 12, 2009 - 6:01PM~11:59PM - No Nightlight

WDKY 56 Danville/Lexington - June 12, 2009 - 6:01PM~11:59PM - No Nightlight

After sending a direct question to WDTN last week via its website, I received an answer from "Don Jones" at the station on when their analog service was ending.

At first, he said it would be 11:59 PM on June 12. A day or two later, he sent a correction that it would in fact occur at 11:59 AM -- shortly before noon on June 12. Without any further clarification from someone at WDTN, I think that 11:59 AM is more likely than not the official time.

Odd glitch on WHIO-7's website -- their DTV countdown clock is off by one hour. If you look at the days-hours-minutes left before analog must end, then do the math, it appears that 1 AM on June 13 is the appointed hour, which of course it is NOT. (Maybe they're using the Central Time Zone version of the DTV countdown clock for some unexplained reason!:D) And their chief engineer, Chuck Eastman, confirmed 11:59 PM for the end of analog in an e-mail response.

WOTH back by Thursday according to Kiesewetter.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a5c49394b12564ab6832411d82ad3a991Post%3a2f0 da9e9-c54a-4b47-a175-443c2ae07175&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Quick update to last post -- Been doing some digging about the "nightlight" stations, and found it's possible there may end up being some more added to "FCC's list" ... In other words, it's possible(perhaps not likely but we'll see) there may be others in the area nightlighting past June 12 besides WLWT ...

Long story short -- by May 13, 2009 -- 79 stations had told FCC they would be nightlighting Past June 12 -- WLWT was one of those stations ... But, more stations have "signed on" to nightlight since then (potentially even "informally" via email to FCC), such that During June 3 Commission meeting, a FCC staffer said 99 stations had "signed up" to nightlight past June 12, with possibly more to come ...

In any case, The FCC staffer said in that meeting that they "expected" to release a list of the Nightlighting stations by sometime Early this week ... We'll find out in about 4 days 2 Hours at the latest regardless, of course .....


More details here (or in documents liked to this post) :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16610154#post16610154

if anyone has the ability to record the last few analog minutes - please do so.. I am out of town starting tomorrow and it would be neat to see and catalog this piece of history - even if its nothing more than a fade to static :)

thanks

jim

when 25 was working - was anyone with a directv hddvr getting them OTA? I have an hr20 and can not get the block stations - the fusion5 pc tuner card gets them. Unfortunately, I hardly use that anymore.

thanks

jim

when 25 was working - was anyone with a directv hddvr getting them OTA? I have an hr20 and can not get the block stations - the fusion5 pc tuner card gets them. Unfortunately, I hardly use that anymore.

thanks

jim

Yes, I could get them. I have the HR-22 with the optional OTA receiver -- the AM21. Guide data was and remains working as well (even though WOTH_DT is otherwise off the air).

washington twp in montgomery county? damn... thats a good pull

Odd glitch on WHIO-7's website -- their DTV countdown clock is off by one hour....

Probably using a PSIP clock! :rolleyes:

washington twp in montgomery county? damn... thats a good pullThere are Washington Townships in Clermont and Warren counties as well as many others too...

either way.. still a good pull

Yes, washington township in montgomery county. I live on the divide between the great miami river and the little miami river. CM 4028 in attic w/ CM 7777 amp.

if anyone has the ability to record the last few analog minutes - please do so.. I am out of town starting tomorrow and it would be neat to see and catalog this piece of history - even if its nothing more than a fade to static :)

thanks

jim

I wouldn't be surprised if you could find some posted on youtube... ;)

Are people going to have watching parties?

Absolutely!

Ya think they realize it's broken? When WCPO inserts their local bug it blinks! As soon as it switches to the ABC only logo it's fine. I think there should be a law against the damned things but that's just me.

The blinking is driving me crazy!!n :eek:

Wow, it's finally here... the last full day of analog TV.

Anyone have use for parts from a 5" B/W battery-powered TV? It has a telescoping swivel antenna and no input connections whatsoever, so without some serious tinkering, it's about to become a doorstop. :D

Good luck to all of you making the transition. I've been all-digital for a while but I will still have some work to do, rescanning for channel 12's move and then reassigning all my "Favorites" ("Season passes") on my HTPC setup to the "new" channel.

And of course, crossing my fingers that I will get a solid signal on Dayton CW... ;)

Yeah, me too.
In a little over 24 hours we should (hopefully) be watching Dayton's CW in HD from WBDT 26.1 (full power and new digital channel). No more Local 12.2 SD.
Don't forget to re-scan tomorrow afternoon everyone - should be fun!

Will I be able to pick up WBDT 26.1 tomorrow with my indoor antenna here in Delhi. Or will I end up needing an outdoor antenna? My condo association won't let me put one up.

Not sure.

If you can currently receive WHIO DT, WDTN DT, & WPTD your should be able to recieve WBDT post-transition. At 770KW they will be "stronger" than WKEF and WRGT - not quite as strong at the first 3 stations I mentioned.

WBDT post-transition coverage map:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1251282.html

Note: WHIO and WKEF will be a litter stronger soon (later June?) since they have been approved for maximum power.

Maybe Jeff can weigh in on this one.....

Don't forget to RE-SCAN!!

I am ALOT closer than Delhi and have a sweet rooftop antenna and I cannot get WBDT...I did get it once but it quickly stopped...I am hoping to get it myself after tomorrow...

Will I be able to pick up WBDT 26.1 tomorrow with my indoor antenna here in Delhi. Or will I end up needing an outdoor antenna? My condo association won't let me put one up.
There's only one way to know for sure.

(in case you didn't guess, it's "wait until tomorrow".) :D

Ch. 9 will delay their switch until after the NBA game tonight. I guess the game would have to go into O.T. to really cause a delay.

Update: They will wait until after the post-game late news.

Also, I wonder how much longer TWC will continue to carry 2 channels (SD & HD) for every local channel.

I am ALOT closer than Delhi and have a sweet rooftop antenna and I cannot get WBDT...I did get it once but it quickly stopped...I am hoping to get it myself after tomorrow...



YOU should be "golden" tomorrow - IF they kick of the power to the full 770K when they switch from DT18 to DT28. I'm trying to confirm, but the last time I talked to WBDT's chief engineer that's what he said. Stay tuned and re-scan!

Also, I wonder how much longer TWC will continue to carry 2 channels (SD & HD) for every local channel.

They will continue for the forseeable future...The SD or analog is a must for them for all their customers that don't want a cable box and do not have a QAM tuner...


YOU should be "golden" tomorrow - IF they kick of the power to the full 770K when they switch from DT18 to DT28. I'm trying to confirm, but the last time I talked to WBDT's chief engineer that's what he said. Stay tuned and re-scan!

One can only hope...;)
I am curious if I will see any noticeable change with WKRC 12 switching not only frequencies but also switching bands...I get GREAT signal and solid reception now but since I didn't have the antenna setup I do now when the 'rest' was done I have no idea...I'm sure I'll be "golden" ;) but stranger things have happened if I am not...

Have we heard yet if 12 news or 5 news will be going to HD along with the switch or not???:confused:

Have we heard yet if 12 news or 5 news will be going to HD along with the switch or not???:confused:[/QUOTE]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was wondering the same. Ch. 12 has had the HD equipment since November according to this thread.
I'm also curious about the switch to VHF. It shouldn't be a problem. If "VHF" was the issue with DTV we would have heard complaints from other areas of the country also by now. I believe the "problem" has just been a WCPO one.
WOTH is still not back yet, despite Kiesewetter saying it would be back by now. I would think WOTH would really want their signal out there when everyone re-scans tomorrow.

If "VHF" was the issue with DTV we would have heard complaints from other areas of the country also by now.

Tons of complaints in some areas, others haven't had many. I'm not sure what the difference is, but some work and some don't.

- Trip

This evening on Ch. 12's News Poll - The results were..... 20% are still not ready for the switch to DTV, & 6% are unsure if they are ready for the switch to DTV!!

I would think WOTH would really want their signal out there when everyone re-scans tomorrow.
They do and you can bet your ass they are working like crazy (as long as they got their parts on time) to get everything ready to go ASAFP...;)

Not sure.

If you can currently receive WHIO DT, WDTN DT, & WPTD your should be able to recieve WBDT post-transition. At 770KW they will be "stronger" than WKEF and WRGT - not quite as strong at the first 3 stations I mentioned.

West of Hamilton, I get digital WPTD almost all the time, WDTN and WKEF most of the time, and WHIO and WRGT almost never. I hope the situation with WHIO improves after they relocate their permanent digital antenna and increase power! WBDT barely appears now on analog 26 -- we'll see what happens after they flash back to 26.

And I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed for the return of WOTH tonight -- even though they reportedly plan to continue analog into next week, as others have pointed out, they really need their digital signal back on the air tonight before all the re-scanning takes place!

I am ALOT closer than Delhi and have a sweet rooftop antenna and I cannot get WBDT...I did get it once but it quickly stopped...I am hoping to get it myself after tomorrow...Never had a problem getting WBDT-DT here in Sharonville. I usually get 3 "bars" on the signal quality meter (out of 7 or so I think) versus 6 or 7 bars for the other Dayton stations. No drop outs though. WBDT-DT also does the same thing that WDTN-DT does - simulcasting SD on 26-2 for some silly reason.

Tons of complaints in some areas, others haven't had many. I'm not sure what the difference is, but some work and some don't.

- TripI've seen lots of complaints in areas like Lexington where they have a station on Lo-VHF channel 4. I think Hi-VHF has generally faired better, however with WCPO-DT during lightning strikes often I do get a blip or quick drop out (so much for Steve Raleigh always "being there" ;) ) whereas I have never seen a lightning related drop-out from any of the other stations (all UHF). Other than the lightning/interference thing though, I think the biggest thing with the VHF stations is people don't have the right antennas. Some have UHF-only antennas (which may even work fine for some but still cause problems for others) and others have indoor antennas. The problem with indoor antennas and digital TV on VHF is the "things" that can cause interference are many times indoors. I'd venture to say there are a lot of people out there that have put up with "dots" or "lines" on their VHF analog picture, caused by interference, but the same channel in digital may just not decode properly. A proper outdoor antenna will usually alleviate that. As has been said before, broadcast television (digital as well as analog) was designed for outdoor directional receiving antennas. Indoor antennas may work for many, and there may be others who can't put up outdoor antennas (apartment dwellers, etc.), but, we still shouldn't "expect" indoor antennas to always work perfectly. The changes WCPO will be making should help as well but I would venture to say that a fair number of people will still have a bit of trouble with WCPO-DT and WKRC-DT (on 12 after the switch) if they are using indoor and/or UHF-only antennas. But, maybe having two stations on hi-VHF will help people not just "blame WCPO" like I have seen a lot of people do.

Have we heard yet if 12 news or 5 news will be going to HD along with the switch or not???:confused:I doubt they would time it with the switch, and we probably would have heard something by now, but who knows... FOX19 going HD was a bit of a surprise when they did it (as in no announcements that I remember). We've heard that WKRC has had the equipment, but I'm starting to wonder if WLWT will beat them at this point... WLWT has been all digital the longest and had the most recent investment in equipment (until WCPO went HD)... I wonder how much would be involved in them going SD widescreen like WHIO has. Their SD quality is so good that it would most likely fool a lot of people into thinking it was HD. WLWT's SD upconverts to HD from their studio shots look better than ABC's SD network shows...

I think Hi-VHF has generally faired better, however with WCPO-DT during lightning strikes often I do get a blip or quick drop out (so much for Steve Raleigh always "being there" ;) ) whereas I have never seen a lightning related drop-out from any of the other stations (all UHF). Other than the lightning/interference thing though, I think the biggest thing with the VHF stations is people don't have the right antennas. Some have UHF-only antennas (which may even work fine for some but still cause problems for others) and others have indoor antennas. The problem with indoor antennas and digital TV on VHF is the "things" that can cause interference are many times indoors. A proper outdoor antenna will usually alleviate that. The changes WCPO will be making should help as well but I would venture to say that a fair number of people will still have a bit of trouble with WCPO-DT and WKRC-DT (on 12 after the switch) if they are using indoor and/or UHF-only antennas. But, maybe having two stations on hi-VHF will help people not just "blame WCPO" like I have seen a lot of people do.

There are cases on AVSForum of people with dedicated upper-VHF outdoor antennas losing former UHF digitals when they relocated to upper-VHF. I don't know that this is typical, but I'm definitely of the opinion that most upper-VHF stations were not granted enough power.

- Trip

I guess 25 wont be ready for tomorrow I still can't recive it 25.1-25.5.

I guess 25 wont be ready for tomorrow I still can't recive it 25.1-25.5.

Yeah, doesn't look promising, but still almost 3 hours left before midnight...keep the faith! :rolleyes:

Yeah, doesn't look promising, but still almost 3 hours left before midnight...keep the faith! :rolleyes:

Remember that analog shutoff isn't the end of the digital transition. There are a significant number of stations that are enhancing their digital transmissions after tomorrow (power boosts, new antennas, etc.) and it will be a few weeks before the new digital landscape stabilizes. I just hope that the media continues to remind people to rescan at least once a week throughout the summer because a lot of people may lose a station or two tomorrow due to their digital transmission setup not being finalized.

[QUOTE=jimp2244;16630022]Never had a problem getting WBDT-DT here in Sharonville. I usually get 3 "bars" on the signal quality meter (out of 7 or so I think) versus 6 or 7 bars for the other Dayton stations. No drop outs though. WBDT-DT also does the same thing that WDTN-DT does - simulcasting SD on 26-2 for some silly reason.

I live in Sharonville also, BUT have an attic mount antenna w/amplifier. Here's my current readings for Dayton stations:

-WDTN DT: 90%
-WHIIO DT: 93%
-WPTD DT: 93%
-WKEF DT: 80%
-WRGT DT: 75%
-WBDT DT: 0%

So, I'm pretty sure I should see something tomorrow from WBDT DT 26 when they go to maximum power.

My assumption is that you have an outdoor antenna vs. indoor? As Rob stated, he also has an indorr antenna. Getting WBDT post-transition may be a little "iffy" in the Delhi area and "rabbit ears"....who know for sure until tomorrow

Remember that analog shutoff isn't the end of the digital transition. There are a significant number of stations that are enhancing their digital transmissions after tomorrow (power boosts, new antennas, etc.) and it will be a few weeks before the new digital landscape stabilizes. I just hope that the media continues to remind people to rescan at least once a week throughout the summer because a lot of people may lose a station or two tomorrow due to their digital transmission setup not being finalized.

Excellent point - the media seems to only focus on "re-scan" for tomorrow (June 12) when in reality several stations (WCPO, WKEF, WHIO) with be fine-tuning transmitters, moving to top-mount, increasing power, etc. all through the summer months. Some still have post-transition applications pending.

I'm expecting this board (and the Dayton board) to be "hopping" tomorrow and through the weekend - should be fun with all of the "field reports" of who's getting what new station, how strong, etc. :)

Yeah, doesn't look promising, but still almost 3 hours left before midnight...keep the faith! :rolleyes:

Yeah, talked to Elliott Block on Tuesday at WOTH and they really wanted to get the replacement parts on the tower transmission line replaced BEFORE tomorrow so when everyone does a re-scan 25.1 - 25.5 will show up.

I'm sure the weather played a part in the delay but let's keep fingers crossed!

Shane - any updates for us?

Jack

Sorry for Cross posting, but for those who don't read Dayton or DTV transition thread :

FCC has just posted a revised list of analog nightlight stations :

Public Notice :

http://www.fcc.gov/DA-09-1303A1.pdf

Appendix (the actual list) :

http://www.fcc.gov/DA-09-1303A2.pdf


Here's the Current List for Ohio and nearby states (don't think I missed anything, but might have since I can't "sort" a PDF by the "state" column) :

Ohio :

WKYC 3 Cleveland (Until 7/12/09)
WLWT 5 Cincinnati (Until 7/12/09)
WSYX 6 Columbus (Until 6/26/09)
WKEF 22 Dayton (Until 6/26/09)

Kentucky :

WBNA 21 Louisville (Until 6/26/09)
WLKY 32 Louisville (Until 7/12/09)

Indiana :
WTTV 4 Bloomington (Until 6/26/09)
WEVV 44 Evansville (Until 6/26/09)

Michigan :
WJBK 2 Detroit (Until 6/26/09)
WJMN 3 Marquette (Until 6/30/09)
WDIV 4 Detroit (Until 6/26/09)
WEYI 25 Flint-Saginaw-Bay City (Until 6/26/09)

West Virginia :

WVAH 11 Huntington/Charleston (until 6/26/09)

------------------------------------------------

Just thought I'd list ALL the bordering states, given there aren't many stations ....

DX'ers will want to check out the rest of the list as well, as with most of the local analogs gone, in addition to more oppurtunities on certian channels for DTV DX which we haven't had before, for the next month, they'll be dx'ing of the nightlight stations going on .... I can't WAIT to pull out the channel traps I have in line to knock down WDTN 2 + WHIO 7 (and I'd rather have been able to do it tomorrow, but also in a couple of weeks, WKEF 22) .....

-------------------------------

[QUOTE=jimp2244;16630022]Never had a problem getting WBDT-DT here in Sharonville. I usually get 3 "bars" on the signal quality meter (out of 7 or so I think) versus 6 or 7 bars for the other Dayton stations. No drop outs though. WBDT-DT also does the same thing that WDTN-DT does - simulcasting SD on 26-2 for some silly reason.

I live in Sharonville also, BUT have an attic mount antenna w/amplifier. Here's my current readings for Dayton stations:

-WDTN DT: 90%
-WHIIO DT: 93%
-WPTD DT: 93%
-WKEF DT: 80%
-WRGT DT: 75%
-WBDT DT: 0%

So, I'm pretty sure I should see something tomorrow from WBDT DT 26 when they go to maximum power.

My assumption is that you have an outdoor antenna vs. indoor? As Rob stated, he also has an indorr antenna. Getting WBDT post-transition may be a little "iffy" in the Delhi area and "rabbit ears"....who know for sure until tomorrow

I can recive WDTN sometimes with my Indoor anttena when the conditions are right outside. But when they increase power and put up new antenna. I should get them all the time I think. Thats part of the reason I think I may get WBDT. I dont think i will ever get WBTD since their power is so low only 155kw.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=25067

WKYC is channel 3 not channel 2. I used to live in the Cleveland area.

Typo corrected. I see WKYC 3 quite often here. The digital has been on 2 during the transition ....

Again, WDTN digital is at full power(1000KW ERP), as they have been for several years, using the same antenna they'll be using post-transition .... Recall Doc reported getting them back when they were at 125KW ERP (STA) with a Yagi In his Attic in Florence, KY ....

150 KW ERP is still a LOT of power for DTV, and only about 7~8dB or so less than the 1000KW ERP maximum allowed for UHF digital ...

Less than 1 hour to DTV transition - almost like Christmas?
I hope the "jolly old engineers" bring us some good DTV signals from far away and - if we are really good - Dayton's CW in HD! (Sorry, becoming somewhat compulsive on this one - hope I'm not disappointed tomorrow). :eek:

Good evening everyone,

We are just about 45 minutes at least from the first switch of the day...as WCPO takes analog 9 off the air after tonight's game and the late news. (I'm watching the game now, getting set to watch and make sure Insight has done what it needs to do. If it hasn't, I'll be sorta ticked off.)

I am, by the way, the editor of two blogs that cover the local media around town. I won't advertise them unless I get an okay, but, I will tell you I have spent the last three days talking about the switch, more than I really thought I would be. LOL. (Side note: emery_r is a frequent contributor to my efforts...he is the one who brought me here.)

Anyway, I am looking forward to not only Friday's switchover (so I can FINALLY get a breather in LOL), but to contributing wherever possible.

One more note: Whenever WOTH-DT comes back, expect the analog side of that station to disappear quickly and/or be gone as soon as the digital side is up. Not that I have solid information...but Block had previously told the Enquirer he plans to be digital only by 1 week from today (Friday). Which means, he needs to hurry up and get that problem fixed atop the tower...or he'll miss his self-imposed deadline.

Sorry for the mass edits. But, I usually find out I missed a point I intended to make, almost as soon as I hit the "Post" button on forums...I'll do my best to be careful about this down the line...

Attached screencaps demonstrate a bit of what WCMH 4 columbus is doing for next 23 1/2 hours or so ... Sorry about the quality, analog tuner in PC is at the "end of the line" so to speak ....

I thought WAVE was going to go down between 12AM and 6AM, but in addition to them still being up with Conan as usual, the countdown clock on their website says about 10 Hours ..... BTW, WRTV 6(Indy)/WHAS 11(Louisville)/WRTV 6(Indy) all had the BB game up "as normal" last I swung the antennas around .... WFTE 58(Lou area)/WLKY 32(Louisville) had normal programming running as well ....

Attached screencaps demonstrate a bit of what WCMH 4 columbus is doing for next 23 1/2 hours or so ... Sorry about the quality, analog tuner in PC is at the "end of the line" so to speak ....

I thought WAVE was going to go down between 12AM and 6AM, but in addition to them still being up with Conan as usual, the countdown clock on their website says about 10 Hours ..... BTW, WRTV 6(Indy)/WHAS 11(Louisville)/WRTV 6(Indy) all had the BB game up "as normal" last I swung the antennas around .... WFTE 58(Lou area)/WLKY 32(Louisville) had normal programming running as well ....

WCPO had the game up as normal as well...and is now in the middle of their newscast. They ran a crawl for the first segment...and spent 3 minutes talking about it, but that is it!

First switch in Cincinnati will happen, by my estimation, right around 12:50 AM when WCPO shuts down.

WKRC is anticipated to follow at 1:30 AM (NOT 2 AM as previously reported). They will also temporarily take down the digital side, including 12.2 CW Cincinnati, to flash-cut to digital RF 12. Expect full service on digital channel 12.1 and 12.2 to be restored by 5 AM, according to the Enquirer.

As of 12:45am i'm now receiving WHIO DTV 7 in poor to fair range. While WDTN 2 comes in perfect.

I am recording the WCPO switch now...

After 7 minutes of recording...it looks like Insight Cable did EXACTLY what they were supposed to do. WCPO is now all-digital, and no longer interferes with the local Real Estate TV channel...

A shot of the DTV "Phone bank" folks, then Clyde said, "More news as it breaks as we enter a Brave New World" ... And that was it for WCPO 9 analog signal at about 00:53 or so 6/12/09 ....

WCET has been the only one In Cincy or Dayton to do anything a bit "special" (for on air sign off) so far ...They ran one of their "old" sign off videos from I think the Early 80's with the fireworks and America The Beautiful/etc...

A shot of the DTV "Phone bank" folks, then Clyde said, "More news as it breaks as we enter a Brave New World" ... And that was it for WCPO 9 analog signal at about 00:53 or so 6/12/09 ....

WCET has been the only one In Cincy or Dayton to do anything a bit "special" (for on air sign off) so far ...They ran one of their "old" sign off videos from I think the Early 80's with the fireworks and America The Beautiful/etc...

I was watching that switchover and recorded the results with my HD Video Camera. I am converting it from an AVI to an MPEG now and will post it to my youtube shortly.

Can anyone confirm that WKRC has powered down the digital transmitter for the flash-cut? It would seem if they have not, they will be shortly...and I am unclear if it would affect cable subscribers...

Never mind - just flipped to WKRC on Insight - and the picture has frozen on a shot of Wayne Allen.

Can anyone confirm that WKRC has powered down the digital transmitter for the flash-cut? It would seem if they have not, they will be shortly...and I am unclear if it would affect cable subscribers...

Never mind - just flipped to WKRC on Insight - and the picture has frozen on a shot of Wayne Allen.

WKRC analog 12 cut off without any fanfare followed a minute or two later by WKRC digital 31. Good luck Xmtrman! :D

Just spoke with someone at the WCPO DTV Phone Bank.

I called in asking if the WKRC-TV RF 12 digital signal would interfere with Insight's channel 12 (CSPAN 2). As the station feeds the signal to Insight through a headend on Taylor Mill Road, the response is no, it will NOT interfere. (Not that I watch much CSPAN 2, or ANY CSPAN channel for that matter, but, for those who might think to call...I already took care of that answer.)

Now this is funny I can get 12wkrc at 3:11am on DIRECTV but not OTA lol. I guess they are feeding fiber to DIRECTV.

Now this is funny I can get 12wkrc at 3:11am on DIRECTV but not OTA lol. I guess they are feeding fiber to DIRECTV.

That should be impossible. They were installing, to my knowledge, a new digital transmitter to handle the broadcasts on RF 12...hmmm...

12wkrc fired up RF12 about 4am.

I have a great singnal on 12. My strength is around 80 to 83 with my indoor antenna.

TSreader HTML export (w/o EIT info or or thumbnails for rabbit ears if Trip wants it) of WKRC 12 Digital (note: FCC is dropping the "DT" callsign suffix post transition, unless a station specifically applies to keep it) in attached zip file ....

Update: It of course is not any different than what Trip already has from them on 31 except for the "channel 12" used by the tuner ... Heck, currently, even the TSID info is still the same "ATSC:31/NTSC:12 for example) ... I've been wondering about that regarding whether or not ATSC is going to issue new TSID's for stations which have changed channels ...

That should be impossible.They were installing, to my knowledge, a new digital transmitter to handle the broadcasts on RF 12...hmmm...


How so ? As Yoda would say .... "Impossible you say ?" ;)

A Transport stream From WKRC(or any DTV station) doesn't need a transmitter to be fed to a MVPD headend via fiber .... The Video/Audio etc needs encoders(MPEG2 video, AC3 audio/etc), and multiplexing of audio/video streams likely needs to occur -- Those processes are(can be) in a sense "Independant" from the exciter and transmitter used for the OTA transmission, although they need to occur before the OTA transmission as well ... In other words -- for example, after audio/video (or whatever - such as PSIP, TVGoS data/etc/etc) is encoded, it can be sent both a). from the encoder(s) via fiber to DBS or cableco headend, and also b). On to the exciter/transmitter for OTA ....

Or, to say it another way --- A RF signal is used via OTA(wireless), and just carries the encoded digital data contained in the Transport stream - just like a signal sent via fiber or a "wire" can as well .... in U.S. for OTA DTV, the signal modulation used for OTA is 8VSB (Trellis coded 8-level vestigal sideband ), the available Payload rate for the MPEG2 Transport stream in our 6MHZ channel is allways 19.383Mb/s ....

For OTA, a good portion of the data transmitted is for Error Correction (FEC+Trellis coding ) --- The rest of it is the actual encoded MPEG2 video streams, AC3 audio, PSIP data, TVGoS streams or whatever(It's allways a 19.39Mb/s available Payload OTA via 8VSB) which are sent via a MPEG2 Transport stream (TS) .... The info you see in the attached HTML/zip file is info on WKRC's TS (the one they send OTA) from a TS Analyzer ..... You would see something quite similar if you used it with a MPEG2 Transport stream being sent by your cable provider via QAM, except you might see streams (video/audio) services from two or three different stations mixed together on one "channel", as Digital Cable via QAM256 has approx twice the payload (less error correction data needed) available vs. OTA via 8VSB (or 8T-VSB if you want to get really technical about the abbreviations) in a 6MHZ RF channel, hence you can "fit" the entire transport streams from two stations into one channel ....

Update: It of course is not any different than what Trip already has from them on 31 except for the "channel 12" used by the tuner ... Heck, currently, even the TSID info is still the same "ATSC:31/NTSC:12 for example)

There is no such thing as "TSID info". A TSID is just a number assigned to the station. They have one for analog (if they had an analog service) and one for digital. It should never change, i.e. it has nothing to do with the channels that the station broadcasts on. The TSID is contained within a field in the PAT table and the TVCT table (Some stations screw up and don't put it in both places). The "TSID info" you see ("ATSC:31/NTSC:12") is just some static data that TsReader has. I don't know if that data is incorporated inside the executable or is in a data file (I don't see anything obvious). So you won't see that information change until a new version of TsReader is released with the data updated.

Thanks, Jeff. I'm at WDBJ right now bouncing between phone calls and updating here, so I've updated the channel to note 12 rather than 31, but I'll have to upload the data later.

Just got a call that confirmed one cable company is still taking our analog. *sigh*

- Trip

TSreader HTML export (w/o EIT info or or thumbnails for rabbit ears if Trip wants it) of WKRC 12 Digital (note: FCC is dropping the "DT" callsign suffix post transition, unless a station specifically applies to keep it) in attached zip file ....

Update: It of course is not any different than what Trip already has from them on 31 except for the "channel 12" used by the tuner ... Heck, currently, even the TSID info is still the same "ATSC:31/NTSC:12 for example) ... I've been wondering about that regarding whether or not ATSC is going to issue new TSID's for stations which have changed channels ...



How so ? As Yoda would say .... "Impossible you say ?" ;)

A Transport stream From WKRC(or any DTV station) doesn't need a transmitter to be fed to a MVPD headend via fiber .... The Video/Audio etc needs encoders(MPEG2 video, AC3 audio/etc), and multiplexing of audio/video streams likely needs to occur -- Those processes are(can be) in a sense "Independant" from the exciter and transmitter used for the OTA transmission, although they need to occur before the OTA transmission as well ... In other words -- for example, after audio/video (or whatever - such as PSIP, TVGoS data/etc/etc) is encoded, it can be sent both a). from the encoder(s) via fiber to DBS or cableco headend, and also b). On to the exciter/transmitter for OTA ....

Or, to say it another way --- A RF signal is used via OTA(wireless), and just carries the encoded digital data contained in the Transport stream - just like a signal sent via fiber or a "wire" can as well .... in U.S. for OTA DTV, the signal modulation used for OTA is 8VSB (Trellis coded 8-level vestigal sideband ), the available Payload rate for the MPEG2 Transport stream in our 6MHZ channel is allways 19.383Mb/s ....

For OTA, a good portion of the data transmitted is for Error Correction (FEC+Trellis coding ) --- The rest of it is the actual encoded MPEG2 video streams, AC3 audio, PSIP data, TVGoS streams or whatever(It's allways a 19.39Mb/s available Payload OTA via 8VSB) which are sent via a MPEG2 Transport stream (TS) .... The info you see in the attached HTML/zip file is info on WKRC's TS (the one they send OTA) from a TS Analyzer ..... You would see something quite similar if you used it with a MPEG2 Transport stream being sent by your cable provider via QAM, except you might see streams (video/audio) services from two or three different stations mixed together on one "channel", as Digital Cable via QAM256 has approx twice the payload (less error correction data needed) available vs. OTA via 8VSB (or 8T-VSB if you want to get really technical about the abbreviations) in a 6MHZ RF channel, hence you can "fit" the entire transport streams from two stations into one channel ....

OK you explained the process well...

We receive the signal on Insight Cable via a headend somewhere along KY Rt. 16 in Kenton County. When you made the report of getting something via DirecTV, I wasn't getting anything via Insight. Half an hour later, I did start receiving the RF 12 signal.

WXIX-TV 19/Newport, Kentucky made the switch at 6 AM...I missed it, I was sleeping...and am about to go BACK to sleep...

I was hoping Trip would take this one ;)


There is no such thing as "TSID info".


The TSID *IS* the info ... WKRC digital TSID is 2247 (0x08c7) -- It's not just an arbitrary number, it uniquely identifes their Transport stream, and their channel numbers per a table developed by the "registration authority" involved, not by TSreader's developer who simply decided to "add" the channel number info as a "feature" ....


The TSID is contained within a field in the PAT table and the TVCT table (Some stations screw up and don't put it in both places).


Yes, TSID is in PAT (Program Association Table) and, in channel_TSID field in TVCT (terrestrial Virtual channel table) or CVCT (cable virtual channel table) .

channel_TSID field in TVCT is defined in A65C per quote below :


channel_TSID — A 16-bit unsigned integer field in the range 0x0000 to 0xFFFF that represents the MPEG-2 Transport Stream ID associated with the Transport Stream carrying the MPEG-2 program referenced by this virtual channel8. For inactive channels, channel_TSID shall represent the ID of the Transport Stream that will carry the service when it becomes active.
The receiver is expected to use the channel_TSID to verify that any received Transport Stream is actually the desired multiplex. For analog channels (service_type 0x01), channel_TSID shall indicate the value of the analog TSID included in the VBI of the NTSC signal. Refer to Annex D Section 9 for a discussion on use of the analog TSID

8 Informative note: A registration authority for each region assigns TSID values, for both analog and digital signals. Contact ATSC for the name of the registration authority applicable to a specific region of interest.



A TSID is just a number assigned to the station.


Yes, It's a number assigned to the station by "A registration authority" ... But no, again, it's not just a arbitrary number ....

WKRC's TSID 2247 (0x08c7) currently MEANS ATSC:31/NTSC:12 just like your Social Security number identifes YOU because that's the value the "registration authority" has assigned to WKRC's Transport stream, and that's what their TSID table says it means .... To say it simply, They are probably going to either need a new "number" for the TSID for the channel number to change from "ATSC 31" (the NTSC 12 will need to remain/continue to remain accurate per A65C PSIP standard and their current and future TVCT Major channel number), per a table developed by the "registration authority" , or the info in the table itself has to change (and TSreader would be one thing which would need to be updated for that) so to speak ...

There is some info on that here :

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/82302

And THAT's what I meant by "TSID Info" -- Not a term which is defined (hence my use of the quotation marks to indicate a generalizatiion), but I'm positive Trip knew exactly what I meant with one little word rather than writing a paragraph, and that was the point ;)

In more detail/ or perhaps to say it another way :

The "TSID info" you see ("ATSC:31/NTSC:12") is just some static data that TsReader has. I don't know if that data is incorporated inside the executable or is in a data file (I don't see anything obvious). So you won't see that information change until a new version of TsReader is released with the data updated.

No, again, It's not just "static data" which only TSreader has which the author can modify at a whim, the same "data" is used by anything using the TSID, per a table which was developed which corresponds to the specific TSID. The "ATSC 31/NTSC 12" won't change unless the "registration authority" changes the table, or the TSID # assigned to the station ......

If you go here, and punch in WKRC's TSID, you'll notice you'll get the same info TSreader provides for their TSID :

http://www.etherguidesystems.com/Tools/TsidLookup.aspx

So, again, In WKRC's case, The TSID they are sending is 2247 (0x08c7), a number which currently effectively+exclusively Identifies their transport stream, and effectively MEANS ATSC 31/NTSC 12, Cincinnati Ohio, even though they now transmit DTV on channel 12, not 31 ... -- Until or if the "registration authority" changes the table to the now correct value ...

I know I probably did not explain that very well, this early hour with little sleep, and I suspect you know all this, and as strange as it may seem, I suspect we are both "saying the same thing" in a sense ... But if not, and the above is unfamilar to you, in addition to the info at above link, Here's some links if you want to find better/more detailed info (ATSC A65C document) :

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_65cr1_with_amend_1.pdf

TSID Table :

http://etvcookbook.org/extra/tsid.html

I was hoping Trip would take this one ;)

Me? I just took another phone call from someone trying to see our UHF signal with a VHF roof antenna. I don't really have the time to give technical answers on AVS right about now! :D

- Trip

When you made the report of getting something via DirecTV, I wasn't getting anything via Insight. Half an hour later, I did start receiving the RF 12 signal.


First, Just a clarification --- It Wasn't me who submitted that report, I use OTA exclusively for the Broadcast signals ... Cable service is not available at my rural location(I'm not interested in it anyway), and I don't do/am not interested in LiL service via Satellite ( I do sub to Dish network, but not their LiL service) ....

Anyway, I don't remember how insight in N KY gets or "formats" WKRC's signal currently for either their digital or analog SD service ... But, your observation/report seems to suggest a good likelyhood they receive it off-air at their head-end ....


WXIX-TV 19/Newport, Kentucky made the switch at 6 AM...I missed it, I was sleeping...and am about to go BACK to sleep...

I recorded it on HDD on a HDD/DVD recorder --- Didn't get to see what was going on, but I did hear a bit of the Audio, sounded like it might be the coolest Analog sign off so far for this area ....

I did get SOME sleep last night ... but not much, so looking forward to the weekend ;)

BTW, Welcome to AVSforum ....

TSID Table :

http://etvcookbook.org/extra/tsid.html

That's an old list.

Here's a new one: http://www.mstv.org/docs/TSID.pdf

Just found it this morning. :)

- Trip

My bad on that one...

But, WXIX's DTV switch looked cool from the video I saw of it on YouTube, which was linked from Frank Marzullo's twitter account...If I hadn't fallen asleep at 3:55 AM, I would have been awake and watched it live...

I don't really have the time to give technical answers on AVS right about now! :D

- Trip

LOL .... Neither did I really, which is why I was hoping you would have taken it ;) ...

And, That sort of thing is kinda why I don't participate as much here as I used to ... Not that I really had time then either, but I digress ....

It just takes too much time to compose proper responses in some cases, and you never know when you're going to HAVE to write a book or dig into ATSC white papers/etc to give a proper response ..... I just feel compelled to do so as much as possible, Especially when someone (understandably as it is not really a "proper" term) doesn't understand what you meant by something like "TSID info" .....

Anyway, gotta run, hopefully if I set some timers I'll get WDTN and WBDT's analog shut off at ~ noon So I can watch it tonight ....

That's an old list.

Here's a new one: http://www.mstv.org/docs/TSID.pdf

Just found it this morning. :)

- Trip

Cool, Thanks .... See You're more awake than I am --

I had just posted a link to the first URL to a Table of TSID's that popped up in a quick search ... I'm just glad I had bookmarked the TSID lookup link, as after the first time I'd found it and used it + neglected to save the link, for some reason, the 2nd time I used it, I had a heck of a time finding it again ...

Cool, Thanks .... See You're more awake than I am --

I had just posted a link to the first URL to a Table of TSID's that popped up in a quick search ... I'm just glad I had bookmarked the TSID lookup link, as after the first time I'd found it and used it + neglected to save the link, for some reason, the 2nd time I used it, I had a heck of a time finding it again ...

I actually found it because of the link you provided. I searched a TSID that wasn't on the old list and it came up, so I searched "tsid <number> <city>" and up came that new list.

- Trip

Hooray Switch-Over!

I did a channel scan this morning to see what changes were afoot. I am located up outside of Oxford, fairly dead-center of Dayton and Cinci stations, so I am now getting 30 digital stations, up from 28 2 days ago.

Hey, if anyone has or sees YouTube videos related to our local stations' transition, could you post the links here?

Here's the link Jeremy referred to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzLYpNaZsQ0

Found one for WCPO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbl3eGxtIIo

Hey, if anyone has or sees YouTube videos related to our local stations' transition, could you post the links here?

Here's the link Jeremy referred to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzLYpNaZsQ0

Found one for WCPO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbl3eGxtIIoThank you, Terry. I was looking for those!

Just talked to Al - chief engineer at Dayton's CW - WBDT.

He is more than READY to "kick up the power" to 770K at 12 noon today (3 hours and counting) as they move from digital 18 to digital 26. This change will be signficant for them in expanded digital coverage.

Note: WBDT is looking for people in the Cincinnati Metro area to call after the transition to provide field reports of signal strength.

Should be interesting after the 12 noon "re-scan". Stay tuned!

Jack

Just talked to Al - chief engineer at Dayton's CW - WBDT.

He is more than READY to "kick up the power" to 770K at 12 noon today (3 hours and counting) as they move from digital 18 to digital 26. This change will be signficant for them in expanded digital coverage.

Note: WBDT is looking for people in the Cincinnati Metro area to call after the transition to provide field reports of signal strength.

Should be interesting after the 12 noon "re-scan". Stay tuned!

So, I have a chance of getting that station after all? And I don't need to worry about a complex multi-antenna config? This makes me happy.

When I canceled DirecTV (to save money), I lamented losing so many channels to surf when nothing was on. Now I am happy once more as I can channel-flip once more out of boredom. :)

I was running late for work, but I had a chance to re-scan one of my Cincinnati tuners this morning (I have two Cincy and two Dayton). It picked up the channel 12 move just fine - kept the same title in the EPG ("WKRCDT"), which I suppose must be tied (in my HTPC software, or Zap2It's EPG info) to the virtual channel number. That is good because I don't need to re-program all of my "Favorites" (="season passes"). Save me a couple of minutes' work. :D

I also had another channel show up that I have never seen before - can't remember what it was, but I will post when I get home this afternoon. Anxious to get home and re-scan the Dayton tuners to see if I get 26!

I am planning on doing a quick run-through with my HD Homerun software and seeing what kind of signal readings I am getting on the newly-moved channels. I will try to post, if I get a chance.

[QUOTE=ngarrang;16632924]So, I have a chance of getting that station after all? And I don't need to worry about a complex multi-antenna config? This makes me happy.

In Oxford - you should get this fine (of course, with digital nothing is guaranteed). Let us know if you get it this PM.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1251282.html

Ch. 19 website has a higher quality video of their analogue sign-off.

Guys (and or Gals) -- Anyone near a TV with a VHF antenna might want to check out lo-VHF 3,4, and 6 ... and "aim" antenna SW if you can .... Big time E-skip opening going on from SW right now ....

Can't really take the time to look at it much right now/looks like it might be a jumbled mess at the point, but the last I looked, KDFW 4 Dallas/Ft Worth (the "Fox 4" logo is mostly being covered up by a DTV transition crawl) was in with a "crystal clear" pic ...

Pretty cool to have Es Blasting in On analog shut off day!!!!

Ch. 19 website has a higher quality video of their analogue sign-off.

Yep, the Fox 19 site has the DT side of the video here: http://*******/5MHNg


(Links people, links)

Guys (and or Gals) -- Anyone near a TV with a VHF antenna might want to check out lo-VHF 3,4, and 6 ... and "aim" antenna SW if you can .... Big time E-skip opening going on from SW right now ....

Can't really take the time to look at it much right now/looks like it might be a jumbled mess at the point, but the last I looked, KDFW 4 Dallas/Ft Worth (the "Fox 4" logo is mostly being covered up by a DTV transition crawl) was in with a "crystal clear" pic ...

Pretty cool to have Es Blasting in On analog shut off day!!!!
Cool! I hope it's still there when I stop home around noon!

Cool! I hope it's still there when I stop home around noon!

Especially after WDTN goes down, I think around noon -- Even better if it keeps up long enough that some of the "jumble o' stations goes away because some of them are signing off .. Forever!

I don't think my recording I have set for WAVE 3 for ~ 11Am for analog shut off is going to turn out very well though ...

It's a jumbled mess at times, I think probably the best Es so far this year .... I just missed what would have been an excellent screenshot of KFOR 4, Ok City with ID ...

Attached is a poor one of KDFW 4 Dallas FT worth from a bit ago, with their big DTV transition crawl covering up their "Fox 4" logo (Red and blue logo at left, the white lettering at top is "Fox" )

I'm not aware of any complaints yet on receiving Ch. 12's new VHF digital signal.

On a humorous note Kiesewetter is reporting that Ch 12's website is/was inadvertently giving out the phone number for Ch. 9! - for anyone having problems with the switch.

I'm not aware of any complaints yet on receiving Ch. 12's new VHF digital signal.

As far as I can tell, WKRC's digital on RF 12 is performing just as well as it did back during the test back in December... better than digital on RF 31! :)

This gives me hope that WCPO's final digital setup will be just as solid.

Indeed, that turned out to be from last week's phone bank. Oops...

Reading from Kiesewetter's blog, it sounds like WLWT-TV 5/Cincinnati plans a special message minutes before they sign off analog 5.

Ch 5 plans a "special farewell message" right before analog ends at 11:59 p.m. tonight, ending 62 years of analog from the city's first commercial TV station. Bill Myers, longtime WLWT announcer and a station historian, will voice the annoucement.

LOL .... Neither did I really, which is why I was hoping you would have taken it ;) ...

And, That sort of thing is kinda why I don't participate as much here as I used to ... Not that I really had time then either, but I digress ....

It just takes too much time to compose proper responses in some cases, and you never know when you're going to HAVE to write a book or dig into ATSC white papers/etc to give a proper response ..... I just feel compelled to do so as much as possible, Especially when someone (understandably as it is not really a "proper" term) doesn't understand what you meant by something like "TSID info" .....

Anyway, gotta run, hopefully if I set some timers I'll get WDTN and WBDT's analog shut off at ~ noon So I can watch it tonight ....

I'm sorry if I didn't express myself clearly. I am quite aware of what the TSID is. I have read every single ATSC standard related to OTA broadcast and have written software that does the equivalent of what Tsreader does.

What I was trying to say is that TSID's are assigned to a station, not by the frequency they broadcast on. The original document specifies TSID's by frequency because at the time that was probably the most unique way of identifying the stations, since call letters typically change more often than the broadcast frequency (of course that isn't as true right now during the transition over the last few years).

What I meant by static data in TSReader is the mapping from TSID value to broadcast channel. TSReader has a static table that contains the tsid values mapped to the original broadcast channels.

If you have any doubts about whether the TSID goes with the frequency or the station, I can suggest that we wait to see how the problem gets resolved here in Denver. KBDI, which was broadcasting on RF38 digitally moved to their final DTV RF channel of RF13. They took their TSID (445) with them, as I believe they should.

However, KPJR (Trinity Broadcasting Network) came up on RF38 today. They are a brand new full power digital only station (never had an analog allocation). They also are using TSID 445. I believe they are making an error and need to have a new TSID allocated for their station. But we'll have to see how that gets resolved. Meanwhile, some CECB's (especially those made by Dish Network) that use TSID value for uniqueness are going to have some problems with two stations in the same area sharing a TSID.

They will continue for the forseeable future...The SD or analog is a must for them for all their customers that don't want a cable box and do not have a QAM tuner...

Only until TWC realizes they can then make people pay for a cable box weather or not they want to.

Well, they could do what Comcast is doing and offer ~2 free DTAs per house and eliminate analog.

What I was trying to say is that TSID's are assigned to a station, not by the frequency they broadcast on.


Absolutely. If you thought I was saying otherwise, then you misunderstood my post --- Which is what I was trying to demonstrate and clarify in my most recent reply in order to hopefully alleviate that misunderstanding .. In any case, I'll take the "blame" for that + I apologize If it wasn't clear ...


What I was trying to say is that TSID's are assigned to a station, not by the frequency they broadcast on.


Of course .... I do think it's possible I may have figured out a good part of why you misunderstood my post, however :

When I said in that original post on the matter :


Update: It of course is not any different than what Trip already has from them on 31 except for the "channel 12" used by the tuner ...


In that portion, quoted above, I was solely and completely referring to the following output in the TSreader HTML export file which I've bolded in the quote farther below, Not in ANY WAY did I associate, or intend to associate that with the TSID ---

I was simply referring to how the following "tuner info"(bolded) says "12" whereas the last file I sent him said "31" for WKRC, because of course that is the channel they're broadcasting now, vs. 31 earlier, which is the ONLY THING different about the now "updated" file vs. what he previously had ...

Also, I was simply pointing out that The TS isself, including the TSID, the info in the "static table" TSreader uses (and the info in other tables, such as available in TSID lookup site, tables published by MSTV/etc), remains the same as it was, previously, when they were transmitting on 31 ....

And I was ALSO merely saying that the "static info"(associated with the TS - I.e. what I was reffering to loosely as "TSID info"), as you refer to it that reports "ATSC 31" is simply incorrect, given they are now transmitting on 12 .... And again, I was NOT saying I thought that in any way was any sort of problem issue, functionally speaking .... :


General Information
Source: ATSC BDA Source
Tuner: Channel 12 (207 Mhz)
Signal: Locked: 100% (-7.000 dBm)
Network Type: ATSC
Run Time: 000:00:30



If you have any doubts about whether the TSID goes with the frequency or the station,


Nope, no doubts whatsoever ....


... They took their TSID (445) with them, as I believe they should.

They are a brand new full power digital only station (never had an analog allocation). They also are using TSID 445. I believe they are making an error and need to have a new TSID allocated for their station.


Yep, I agree with you completely ..

On another note, I have lost channel 12 WKRC but not surprising since I only have a UHF antenna in the attic but I still get channel 9 WCPO? Who knows.

I'm getting strong signals here in Grant County on all channels except for WCET-DT WSTR-DT which are very weak today. I can not even get a lock on them right now. Not sure why since according to the FCC Maps both stations should have strong signals here.

On another note, I have lost channel 12 WKRC but not surprising since I only have a UHF antenna in the attic but I still get channel 9 WCPO? Who knows.

Same here.

Oh well I tried. I guess I can't get 26 here is Delhi with a indoor antenna.

Oh well I tried. I guess I can't get 26 here is Delhi with a indoor antenna.

Maybe you just need a bigger indoor antenna. :) The family wouldn't argue with a full-sized vhf/uhf antenna in the living room, would they?

This is a bedroom tv. I would not care if i had a ooutdoor antenna inside. Just no place to put it unless I attach it to the ceilling of the bed in the condo. I dont know if they would let me put it up in the attic. I have access to it in my hall way outside the bed room. I guess i could put it up and they would not even know. Just run the cable from the atenna down the wall behind the cable jack and diconnect the cable and connect the antenna to the jack instead. We dont have cable anymore just DIRECTV and OTA. I use over the air to get more channels and also because I don't get HD with DIRECTV my mother wont pay for it. We only have the choice package.

Of course .... I do think it's possible I may have figured out a good part of why you misunderstood my post, however :

Yes, it was this part of your statement that led to the confusion:


Update: It of course is not any different than what Trip already has from them on 31 except for the "channel 12" used by the tuner ... Heck, currently, even the TSID info is still the same "ATSC:31/NTSC:12 for example) ... I've been wondering about that regarding whether or not ATSC is going to issue new TSID's for stations which have changed channels ...


You said "even the TSID info is still the same", and I thought you were under the impression that that "ATSC:31/NTSC:12" was somewhere in the transport stream, whereas it is just something that TSReader looks up based on the tsid.

The other part that reinforced that confusion was your statement about reassigning tsid's due to a channel change. I don't believe a tsid reassignment should be required for a channel change, i.e. I think of a tsid as somewhat analogous to the FCC facility ID. In fact the FCC facility ID would have been the right thing to use for a tsid (in my opinion) if it wasn't for the fact that stations had two channels during the transition, requiring two tsid's.

I've just noticed that Ch. 14 & Ch 16's HD channels are now on sub-channel 1, instead of 6.

WOTH-LD is still off the air. However, there's a crawl on WQBC telling people that it will be back soon and people should rescan daily.

I've just noticed that Ch. 14 & Ch 16's HD channels are now on sub-channel 1, instead of 6.

I was in the middle of posting about that - accidentally did something dumb and locked up.

My listings are all messed up - I have 14-1 as "14HD". It's showing 14HD. Then I still show 14-2 through 14-6 (labeled "WPTODTx" where x is the -x number). But 14-6 is blank. I also have another channel labeled 14-6 that is labeled "14HD", and it is blank.

But 16 (which I forgot was moving from 58 to 16, BTW), is more messed up - I have the same thing with 16-1 = "16HD" (showing 16 HD content), but 16-2 through 16-6 are all one channel off... the listings for 16-3 are showing on 16-2, the listings for 16-4are showing on 16-3, etc. 16-6 is blank.

The good news is that I am getting channel 12 with about 93% signal strength and 90-95% signal quality, and WBDT 26 from Dayton with with about 67% signal strength and 75% signal quality, enough to keep it locked in just fine! :D

I just noticed on 16 that they are playing an ad suggesting re-scanning tomorrow (6/13), so hopefully that means that they know their listings are all messed up??

On another note, I have lost channel 12 WKRC but not surprising since I only have a UHF antenna in the attic but I still get channel 9 WCPO? Who knows.

Same here.
Did you guys rescan?

Same here.

WCPO is 25% higher power then WKRC. (plus the differences in how signals travel, would explain the difference..

I went from getting ZERO channels by antenna previously to getting all the major Dayton channels except WRGT since the analog shutdown. This is using an attic antenna hanging on the planter hook in my ceiling above the TV. I may experiment with putting it out on the balcony if some electrician type could tell me how to ground it so it's not a lightning rod for my home theater.

BTW, a real antenna is out of the question because of HOA issues. Legally I can only put it on the balcony.

I can get every local channel with my OTA but 12.1???? I get 12.2 but no 12.1....any ideas?

WCPO is 25% higher power then WKRC. (plus the differences in how signals travel, would explain the difference..
???? Says who??

WLWT has posted their sign off message, even though they haven't aired it yet...

http://www.wlwt.com/video/19739042/index.html

It's actually pretty cool. Just in case I will use spoiler tags :)

First analog TV station in Cincinnati, and the last Analog to sign off... pretty cool they are doing that. Also the first digital station in Cincinnati and the first NBC afilliate in the country.

I can get every local channel with my OTA but 12.1???? I get 12.2 but no 12.1....any ideas?

Try rescanning all of your channels from scratch.

WLWT has posted their sign off message, even though they haven't aired it yet...

http://www.wlwt.com/video/19739042/index.html

It's actually pretty cool. Just in case I will use spoiler tags :)

First analog TV station in Cincinnati, and the last Analog to sign off... pretty cool they are doing that. Also the first digital station in Cincinnati and the first NBC afilliate in the country.

Saying they are the last Analog station to sign off is totally wrong. WBQC will be the last one to sign off.

Well....Christmas did come early in Sharonville today.

I can NOW receive WBDT DT 26.1 & 26.2 at 75-80% signal strength with an attic mount antenna.

Note: The engineers at Dayton's CW will be "tweaking" the antenna and transmitter for a few days and said to expect some slight improvement from today's significant signal upgrade.

HAPPY!

[QUOTE=pjpjpjpj;16637348]
The good news is that I am getting channel 12 with about 93% signal strength and 90-95% signal quality, and WBDT 26 from Dayton with with about 67% signal strength and 75% signal quality, enough to keep it locked in just fine! :D

Congratulations on getting WBDT.

Hang in there Rob!

Saying they are the last Analog station to sign off is totally wrong. WBQC will be the last one to sign off.

Not really...BQC is a low power station and is not required to cease analog transmission...WLWT is the last full power Cincinnati station to shut down analog transmissions...

On another subject there is no joy here...I do not get 26 at all...Dayton Ch 2 comes in 'so-so' but short of missing out on 25 there is no mentionable changes here over slightly stronger signal strengths...

I may get another UHF antenna to point towards Dayton and see if that gets me all of Daytons stations...I am having shoulder surgery early next month so if I am going to do it I have to do it soon...I am half tempted to just remove the deflecters on the existing antenna but I don't want to ruin it...

My listings are all messed up - I have 14-1 as "14HD". It's showing 14HD. Then I still show 14-2 through 14-6 (labeled "WPTODTx" where x is the -x number). But 14-6 is blank. I also have another channel labeled 14-6 that is labeled "14HD", and it is blank.



I just did a rescan and here is what I get on WPTO (14):

14-1 14HD
14-2 14Prime
14-3 14Learn
14-4 14World
14-5 14DT

All (currently) have programming.

Just to give an opinion from just north of Dayton (about 1 mile north of I-70). For what it is worth, I have a 35 foot tower with seperate UHF CM4228 and VHF (Winegard VHF only). I am on a hill at 1000' above sea level. The UHF has always been aproblem as I have a Channel Master 7777 amp with too much gain and I have always had severe intermodulation distortion when pointing directly at Dayton towers (Cincy towers are only 4 degrees off from my direct to Dayton path). As a result, I always had to point SE to lower signal so the amp wouldn't overmodulate.

1) With most of the UHF stations down, the few analog channels left (7, 22, 45) are much cleaner when pointing due south than before. There still is a little cross channel interference when pointing directly at the Dayton towers, but I can point much closer than before.

2) All the Cincy stations on UHF are coming in great, about 60 to 65 percent (I am at 58 mile or so from the southernmost Cincy towers). I have to swing the rotor more southwest than optimum to get 9-1 and 12-1 VHF and when I do, the Cincinnati UHF stations drop out due to amp overload as mentioned above. I am only getting 50 to 53 percent signal strength as registered by my Pioneer PDP-6010FD plasma on Channel 12-1 and about 34 percent on 9-1.

I am getting 88 percent with 64-1, which is better than all the Dayton stations (local) except 45-1. 19-1 is 65 percent. 5-1 is 76 percent.

Anyway, that is my report at the northern fringe.

WOTH is back

WOTH is back

Yes it is and with a signal strength the best it has been yet here!!!:D Very good sir!!!:cool:

The PQ seems a bit better also...

WOTH is back

I knew the A-Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_team) wouldn't let us down. ;)

Their signal levels appear to have gone back to where they were two weeks ago or so before they were having problems.

Is it just me, or does WSTR-DT 64 (RF 33) seem to be coming in oddly for anyone else? Action seems slower...

Is the same as it always has been here...

I knew the A-Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_team) wouldn't let us down. ;)

Their signal levels appear to have gone back to where they were two weeks ago or so before they were having problems.

YES! Thank you Shane and team! You guys rock!
RTN is back on the air in Cincinnati (and south of Dayton too).:)

Is it just me, or does WSTR-DT 64 (RF 33) seem to be coming in oddly for anyone else? Action seems slower...

No issues at all at my house west of Hamilton. Haven't seen any change with 64 in recent weeks -- strong signal, near top of the scale.

AND -- it's GREAT to see WOTH back, good as new. I saw it flicker on and off, then back on around 8 PM. Hope it's here to stay! (Don't even care if TimeWarner picks them up now or not.)

AND -- I also now have Dayton/Springfield's WBDT-26 since they flashed back to 26! The only Dayton station I now don't get is WHIO-7, so here's hoping relocation of their digital antenna fills that gap later this month.

Thanks WBQC/WKRP TV. The way my antennae is directed i received Dayton ch 2 and 7.

I just looked at WSTR-DT again...and this time, no issues with it. In fact, it's moving at regular speed. Not sure why that would happen.

To expand upon my original question...during WWE Smackdown, the action seemed a touch slower than full-speed. No clue if it was just a problem at Star Tower, or the way it was transmitted from MNTV...but, it wasn't moving at regular speed.

Thanks WBQC/WKRP TV. The way my antennae is directed i received Dayton ch 2 and 7.

Picked them (25-x) ( I live just up just north of I-70) up this evening. Likely won't during the day. The signal is arginal, breaking up pretty often (~25%) , but it is great that I could see it at all and for a lengthy time this evening. My DirecTv DVR's tuner locks on quite a bit better than my TV's.

It sure seems that getting the analog stations off the air has improved reception quite a bit. I noticed an immediate jump in signal quality once 7 and 45 analog went off the air. 9-x has improved into the 60s - mid 70%, but 12-x has not. It hovers about 35%. I hope that WKRC tweaks things a bit in the next few days as I received them at 75% when they were on UHF.

I also picked up two Lima stations off the back side of my antennae. First time ever for them 8-1, 44-x. I received all of the four Columbus major stations today except WTTE. WTTE has always been the lowest signal of the Columbus channels within my range and required careful aiming of my antenna, but I haven't seen a blip from them today.

You said "even the TSID info is still the same",


And I meant it(again reffering to the "info" associated with the TSID) but ONLY as it relates to the the main subject involved for that portion of the post -- Which ONLY involved updated TSreader HTML export files for WKRC for Trip's "rabbit ears" website vs. what he had for them before (when they were on ch 31) .....

I also thought I was clear I was commenting on the minor difference in the file he had posted on his website vs. the new file I attached to the message ... In other words, As in, I was saying to Trip, "it's no big deal" of an update, as I know he has a lot of things on his plate, and for instance, he could also have easily edited the HTML file he had to "channel 12(207 MHZ)" In the appropriate spot and he'd have an accurate, current file (which might be easier than extracting it from the archive and assigning a filename to the updated with the Facility_ID in it/etc, as he does for the files he posts on Rabbit ears ....


TSreader HTML export (w/o EIT info or or thumbnails for rabbit ears if Trip wants it) of WKRC 12 Digital (note: FCC is dropping the "DT" callsign suffix post transition, unless a station specifically applies to keep it) in attached zip file ....

Update: It of course is not any different than what Trip already has from them on 31 except for the "channel 12" used by the tuner ... Heck, currently, even the TSID info is still the same "ATSC:31/NTSC:12 for example) ... I've been wondering about that regarding whether or not ATSC is going to issue new TSID's for stations which have changed channels ...


Perhaps from now on, given the apparent confusion involved, I'll just email updates for stations in the area to Trip, rather than post them here -- Which I have been doing recently because I thought others might be interested in any discussion involved, (or to let others know they can feel free to post updates for trip as sometimes I don't catch them) etc, and for those without PC based receivers/capability to use software such as TSreader whom also might be interested in some of the info involved ....



and I thought you were under the impression that that "ATSC:31/NTSC:12" was somewhere in the transport stream ...


Afraid not, sorry, but I can certianly understand how you got that "impression" ....


whereas it is just something that TSReader looks up based on the tsid.


Yep. Again, I provided several links in earlier posts where it can be "looked up" as well ...


The other part that reinforced that confusion was your statement about reassigning tsid's due to a channel change.


My statement said I was wondering about it. I meant (again, by "TSID Info") as it pertains to the Incorrect info regarding channel of operation(For the most part, which seem to be per the table of allotments for during the transition) for digital stations which have since moved to another channel than the one which is currently ASSOCIATED (and not only in "TSreader") with the TSID ....

I didn't say I thought a change in the TSID should happen because of it, It just came to mind as one possible solution to the issue ---- an analogy might be, delete the entire record from the database, and create a new one, don't just change one of the values in a field -- although, certianly, the latter is another possible solution that comes to mind, another possible solution is just to do nothing, and leave it there with no particular purpose ...

Personally, as long as there is a unique TSID for each and every station, and receivers can deal properly with whatever is done -- I have no particular interest concerning whether or not they do anything about it or not, again, I was just wondering about what *Might* be done about it (if anything) ...


I don't believe a tsid reassignment should be required for a channel change ...


Neither do I ....


i.e. I think of a tsid as somewhat analogous to the FCC facility ID. In fact the FCC facility ID would have been the right thing to use for a tsid (in my opinion) if it wasn't for the fact that stations had two channels during the transition, requiring two tsid's.


Yes, would have Worked for me, too, and I'm sure they could have worked something out for the dual TSID's for analog+digital ....

I also think it would be the right thing for them to require and assign unique TSID's to LP digital stations ...... As you said in a previous post, there are receivers out there with features which are dependant on unique TSID's for each station, such that (IMO) I think it's really pretty important each station send a unique TSID ...

I'm not so sure about translators, I suppose it depends upon the specific situation involved -- But personally, I have allways favored having a way for my receivers to provide some sort of indication "which" particular station is being decoded, including translators .... It's been a while since I've read through the rules developed so far for LP digitals, and thus I may be mistaken, but I don't think that's the way they're doing it ....

Picked them (25-x) ( I live just up just north of I-70) up this evening. Likely won't during the day. The signal is marginal, breaking up pretty often (~25%) , but it is great that I could see it at all and for a lengthy time this evening. My DirecTv DVR's tuner locks on quite a bit better than my TV's.

It sure seems that getting the analog stations off the air has improved reception quite a bit. I noticed an immediate jump in signal quality once 7 and 45 analog went off the air. 9-x has improved into the 60s - mid 70%, but 12-x has not. It hovers about 35%. I hope that WKRC tweaks things a bit in the next few days as I received them at 75% when they were on UHF.

Remember:

Your tuner does need to be able to receive VHF - otherwise, neither tuner will amount to a hill of beans. Digital signals do tend to carry further under lower amounts of power.

However...I would suggest and remind you that the WKRC signal is intended to just BARELY get that far north - and the further north of I-70 you are, ESPECIALLY in Preble, Darke, Miami and Montgomery counties...the less of WKRC's signal you'll get. In fact, it looks like WKRC's signal, by the looks of it, is maybe 5-10 miles north of I-70 at its northernmost point. Much of Miami County, OH, and much of Clark Co. and Darke Co. as well, won't get a usable signal from WKRC. Only the southern portions of each will get a good signal, and it makes a couple or three thousand pickups in each of these counties (or in the case of Clark County, only the southwest tip, still getting maybe 1,000).

I did think the DMA also included Carroll County, KY by the way. But apparently not. Guess that's Louisville...and same logic, I guess Fayette Co., IN is in the Indianapolis (or maybe Dayton) DMA...yet both are served nicely by WKRC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cokebear

On another note, I have lost channel 12 WKRC but not surprising since I only have a UHF antenna in the attic but I still get channel 9 WCPO? Who knows.


Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm

Same here.



Did you guys rescan?

Rescanned several times. Figured out that my problem was related to the WKRC channel change. I'm using Media Center within Win 7 RC1 and it apparently hasn't picked up the channel change yet. I was able to add the channel and enter the correct RF (12) and now all is good.

I did do a rescan when I said I lost channel 12WKRC. The thing I'm not sure of is if Vista Media Center has caught up with all the changes yet. Vista media center did have an update the other day and I thought that the update was to make the necessary changes but it may not have been.

Also tried to manually add the channel but when I tried it seems that VMC was confused by already having a channel 12-1?

While VMC is not ideal for most people it works great for my situation. Having the computer in one room and the TV & 360 in another and still being able to record HD and watch it on the big screen is very easy with this setup.

Duh posted without reading all the way to the last post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abr27440 View Post
Actually you dont want to edit the atscchannels.xml file as it is updated every time the guide is. What you want to do is edit the atscprefs.xml file, it should look something like this

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<channels>
<channel callsign="KUON" userAssignedName="KUON" version="0" physical="12" major="12" />
</channels>

where major is the virtual channel number
I just came up with the same solution before I saw this. I did it a bit different, since I didn't have (or know about) the atscprefs file to begin with. I deleted the channels that didn't show up in the atschannels.xml file (in C:\Users\All Users\Microsoft\eHome\EPG\prefs) making a backup first, then I went to settings, tv, guide, Add Missing Channels and added 7.1 with the assigned frequency of 7, and voila the channel now comes in!
And VMC created the atscprefs.xml file with the correct entry.
sbdman is offline Report Post Reply With Quote

Found this in another thread and am trying it now.

I have to swing the rotor more southwest than optimum to get 9-1 and 12-1 VHF and when I do, the Cincinnati UHF stations drop out due to amp overload as mentioned above. I am only getting 50 to 53 percent signal strength as registered by my Pioneer PDP-6010FD plasma on Channel 12-1 and about 34 percent on 9-1.Not sure how important it is to you, but you could try using a spearate VHF-only antenna and aiming that optimally for WCPO and WKRC (9-1 and 12-1), as it won't pick up and overload the Dayton UHF channels.

I'm using Media Center within Win 7 RC1 and it apparently hasn't picked up the channel change yet.

The thing I'm not sure of is if Vista Media Center has caught up with all the changes yet. Vista media center did have an update the other day and I thought that the update was to make the necessary changes but it may not have been.Didn't realize you guys were using HTPC software. Usually the way that stuff works is different than a TV scan. A TV will scann all channels and "see what's out there." If it finds something, it decodes the channel ID info and adds it to its list. A lot of the HTPC software, like VMC, instead have a list of channels that "should" be in the area (based on the ZIP code you give it). When it scans, it just goes out to see if those channels in the list are there. So, unfortunately that means you're dependent on the program guide's channel info being correct in order for the scan to function properly, unless you do a manual hack/edit.

Didn't realize you guys were using HTPC software. Usually the way that stuff works is different than a TV scan. A TV will scann all channels and "see what's out there." If it finds something, it decodes the channel ID info and adds it to its list. A lot of the HTPC software, like VMC, instead have a list of channels that "should" be in the area (based on the ZIP code you give it). When it scans, it just goes out to see if those channels in the list are there. So, unfortunately that means you're dependent on the program guide's channel info being correct in order for the scan to function properly, unless you do a manual hack/edit.

Thanks for that info. Now that I know how to do the manual edit, I should be good to go.

Didn't realize you guys were using HTPC software. Usually the way that stuff works is different than a TV scan. A TV will scann all channels and "see what's out there." If it finds something, it decodes the channel ID info and adds it to its list. A lot of the HTPC software, like VMC, instead have a list of channels that "should" be in the area (based on the ZIP code you give it). When it scans, it just goes out to see if those channels in the list are there. So, unfortunately that means you're dependent on the program guide's channel info being correct in order for the scan to function properly, unless you do a manual hack/edit.

Yeah the manual hack/edit I found didn't work or at the least I couldn't find the file that was talked about. Maybe with a little more research I can find the answer. Thing is the grass needs cutting.:(

Wish they would start including the sub channel info in the guide as well.

On behalf of everyone here at channel 25, I'd like to thank you all for hanging with us through that rough time! We're back up and running now as good as ever, and all your interest, support, input, and constructive criticism was a big help.

Keep watching, and keep posting.

-Shane

P.S. - We're aware our time tables are still a bit screwy. I know where the problem lies now, but may not be able to have it fixed until early next week. Hopefully, you'll all notice it corrected by the end of Tuesday.

I just did a rescan and here is what I get on WPTO (14):

14-1 14HD
14-2 14Prime
14-3 14Learn
14-4 14World
14-5 14DT

All (currently) have programming.
I have those 5 channel numbers and the programming on each is what should be showing on that channel. The problem is that my 14-2 is still called "WPTODT2" and the EPG shows the programming for the old DT2, which is an SD version of the HD (main) channel. Because 14-3 used to be Prime, the listings for what is actually showing on 14-2 are listed under 14-3, WPTODT3. And so on.... until WPTODT6, which has "no signal" (because it doesn't exist).

I am sure now that this must be something with either my HTPC software or else the Zap2It listings.

Time to start manually forcing ... ugh.

However...I would suggest and remind you that the WKRC signal is intended to just BARELY get that far north - and the further north of I-70 you are, ESPECIALLY in Preble, Darke, Miami and Montgomery counties...the less of WKRC's signal you'll get. In fact, it looks like WKRC's signal, by the looks of it, is maybe 5-10 miles north of I-70 at its northernmost point.


Only 1 mile N of I-70 in Montgomery County. WKRC-DT is very tempermental, and only available at specific narrow angles. Best I have seen is 35 percent signal on the TV, slightly better on the DVR when the antenna is diretly pointed to the tower. Former UHF signal was STRONG up here. I have seen the FCC contour map and yes, it should cover me easily.

Considering the FCC map really doesn't expect people within the coverage area to have a 35' foot tower, 120" VHF-only antenna and VHF-only amplifer at 1035' ASL and I just barely get them, tells me there might be room for improvement in WKRC since it is not my setup.

Ch 9 is now very strong at my location. Prior to analog shutdown, I had severe WBNS Ch 10 analog interference, necessitating that I swing the antenna 32 degrees west of the tower to null out Columbus. Now that WBNS analog is down, I can pick up a very usable >50% signal over +/-35 degrees away from the Ch 9 towers. Now, Ch 9 has had a long time to tweak their setup. All I am hoping for is that there are some improvements in Ch 12, as they aren't nearly as reliable for me as they were on UHF.

Thanks for that info. Now that I know how to do the manual edit, I should be good to go.
Did you find the workaround? Have you made it work?

Not sure how important it is to you, but you could try using a spearate VHF-only antenna and aiming that optimally for WCPO and WKRC (9-1 and 12-1), as it won't pick up and overload the Dayton UHF channels.

Actually, that's my setup. I have a Winegard VHF-only PR-5030 antenna to a 13 db Channel Master VHF-only amp, on a tower at 35'. I have a CM4228 UHF antenna and a CM7776 UHF-only amp. Both run down the tower in quad shield belden RG6, get grounded, then joined into one cable using a CM0549 UHF/VHF joiner. The combined setup runs into the house and a Radio Shack variable attenuator then to a four way splitter to all my video gear and TVs.

The UHF overload was due to the fact the the UHF amp had 26db gain and the 4228 has high gain also. When I got the overload, it was in the UHF amp, not the VHF. So if I got too close to the Dayton towers, the UHF analog channels would have severe herringbone and window shade noise, while at the same time the VHF signals were crystal clear.

I never pulled the UHF amp as it is mounted just under the antenna (bad design decision by me) and getting up there has been problemmatic without a crane or something. I need to replace the rotor (It will only turn about 270 degrees), so one of these days I am going to have to bite that bullet and have the amps moved down to base of the tower where I can work on them/change them out if they fail.

The good news is that since analog shutdown, the UHF overload has greatly decreased (can't wait for WKEF analog to go down). Ch 22 shows no noise in its picture when the antenna is pointed directly at the tower and the low power stations 32, 38 and 40 do not show typical analog overload issues. I might just barely be seeing digital snow noise, which might be what overload from digital stations looks like, but it is very faint.

WLWT has posted their sign off message, even though they haven't aired it yet...

http://www.wlwt.com/video/19739042/index.html

It's actually pretty cool. Just in case I will use spoiler tags :)

First analog TV station in Cincinnati, and the last Analog to sign off... pretty cool they are doing that. Also the first digital station in Cincinnati and the first NBC afilliate in the country.

Thanks for posting this. I remember that announcer from pre 1977 when I moved to Colorado. Denver stations did nothing other then show pushing a button.

I guess it is still possible that KCNC (the old KOA-TV) might do something after their nightlight service ends.

Concerning WPTO+WPTD's changes ...

They changed around the PIDs for the program and elementary streams, as well as the PID addresses specified in the descriptors for those streams in TVCT -- At one point yesterday, the PID addresses specified in the TVCT for some of the Elementry streams didn't match their actual PID's -- That occured of course along with the change in VCT Minor channel numbers from x.2~6 to x.1~5 ... I don't know why ...

That caused some oddities with some of the software I use on HTPC, probably something similar to what pjpjpjpj was having an issue with, but I don't think any of my other receivers have had a problem dealing with it/it didn't require "rescanning" ....

Attached as ThinkTVJun12At2pm.zip contains TSreader HTML export files for WPTD and WPTO from Yesterday around 2pm .. Note that the PIDs in PAT/PMT make sense/match, but the "stream type" descriptors for those streams in TVCT don't match the actual values .... Note: The way it looks, it may be the case that I caught this when they were making the changes ... which also happened to be about the time I was setting up WatchHDTV to work with the new Minor channel #'s ...

I didn't get a file for it, but at one point yesterday afternoon, they had the "actual" PIDs set up to match what they "stream type" descriptors said in the 6/12 2pm file .

Also attached as ThinkTVNow.zip Contains TSreader HTML files for WPTD and WPTO from about 6:40pm today .. this is how they've had it set up at least since sometime last night, at least the few times I've looked at it ...

Don't notice anything "wrong" with the "thinktvnow.zip" file, although it does seem a little odd that they have higher PID addresses for Program #3 streams (the first program stream), the same PID addresses used when it "used" to be the HD services on x.6 in fact ... Also, Program #7 streams (for x.5 minor channel #'s), have the same PID addresses that used to be used for the "x.2" minor channel numbers, for the first program stream .... I don't know if this will cause any problems for anyone, although I do recall someone once with an older set (mits I think) having an issue with WDTN's streams, who does something similar, as they have been doing for many years ... WDTN's 2.1 from VCT being their 1080i HD service, 2.2 being their SD subchannel, but with 2.2 being the first program stream, 2.2 having "program 3" with the "usual" PID addresses per program paradigm (PMT PID 48/0x0030, Video/PCR PID 49 (0x0031), Audio PID 52(ox0034), and 2.1 being "program 4", with PMT PID 64 (ox0040), Video/PCR PID 65(0x0041), Audio PID 68 (0x0044) ....


-------

Oh, also attached is WBDTnew.zip for WBDT for update for Trip if he wants it ... (Feel free to use the files in "thinktvnow.zip" for WPTO/WPTD updates if you want as well of course, trip -- Although, who knows if they'll be changing something again, soon ...)

P.S. - We're aware our time tables are still a bit screwy. I know where the problem lies now, but may not be able to have it fixed until early next week. Hopefully, you'll all notice it corrected by the end of Tuesday.

Thanks Shane, and thanks for getting WOTH-LD back up so quickly -- Back to a very good signal up here .. (Receivers show about 25dB SNR )

By the way, Until you get it fixed, I can actually still make use of the Guide listings via PSIP EITs, even though the times listed are off (in addition to the STT issues) ... As the Listings do show up (via PSIP, still nothing from TVgoS yet on it for WOTH-LD) in DTV Pal DVR's Guide (I think the listings are just an hour off, but I'd have to check it again to make sure that's correct - DTV Pal DVR clock is set via WKRC's TVGoS stream rather than stations STT's), and via TSreader ....

Did you find the workaround? Have you made it work?

Yes, see post 11408. Unlike your problem with Vista Media Center (which I have confirmed) not allowing you to create a 12.1 channel if one already exists, Media Center in Win 7 doesn't care. I was able to create a new channel 12.1 with the correct RF and just disabled the old one. The only drawback is that there is no guide data. I'm sure this will be fixed in the coming days. As a temporary fix you could always create a channel that doesn't exist already and assign the correct digital info to that.

Edit: Just tried the temporary fix in VMC and couldn't get it to work.

"Ch 12 may have local news in HDTV by August. They've had the studio cameras since November, but still waiting on equipment. And Ch 5 isn't saying..." --Kiesewetter

SOLVED VISTA MEDIA CENTER REASSIGN



This problem has been happening across the country.

Stations are applying to the FCC for Construction Permits for their final digital channels. WLUK must have applied to switch back to VHF channel 11 and Microsoft is grabbing that data prematurely and downloading it to your computer instead of leaving it at channel 51 until February. I found a workaround on a site called “The Green Button” and everything works great now. (See below for example of fix)

Posted for everyone's benefit as TV stations are continuously updating their PSIP streams, or channel mappings with additional information, and in many cases, you might suddenly not be able to receive their signal. When you review the signal strength its 0 or red. Here's the full instructions on how to resolve this issue...
Before you begin, you need to configure Vista/XP such that you can see the hidden files you will need to edit, so CLOSE MEDIA CENTER and then:
1. Open My Computer – Click on Start and then My Computer
2. Press the ALT key to have menus show in Vista
3. Click the Tools Menu
4. Select Folder Options
5. Click on the View tab
6. Select “Show Hidden Files and Folders” and uncheck “Hide protected operation system files”
7. Click apply
8. Now click the “apply to folders” button to make the settings hold for all folders.
Find the file you need to edit in the c:\ProgramData\Microsoft\eHome\EPG\prefs directory:
1. Open My Computer – Click on Start and then My Computer
2. Double-click on the C drive
3. Double-click on ProgramData directory
4. Double-click on Microsoft directory
5. Double-click on eHome directory
6. Double-click on EPG directory
7. Double-click on prefs directory
Edit the atscchannels.xml file to remove the channel from Media Center: In this example, the TV station is KCRG which currently broadcasts on 52 but has a major channel of 9 and the default 1 minor channel. Do a quick google to find the physical channels for the stations in your area....
1. Right-click the file atscchannels.xml and select Edit from the popup menu
2. Find the line that reads:
3. Delete the line
4. Save the file (File, Save) and Close (click the X in the upper right-hand window)
Start Media Center and add the channel back:
1. Start Media Center
2. Select settings from main menu
3. Select TV
4. Select Guide
5. Select Add Missing Channels (you deleted the channel by editing the xml file above)
6. Select Add DTV Channel
7. Enter the Major number of 9 (substitute your station here) and the minor number of 1 should be automatically entered.
8. Select Next
9. Enter assigned frequency of 52 (substitute your frequency here - google for it)
10. Select Next
11. Select Finish
12. Select Done
13. Select Back on your Remote
14. Select Digital TV Antenna Signal Strength (if you have scheduled recordings, answer YES)
15. Select Next
16. Watch the channel checks as they scroll by and you should now have a signal from KCRG

This process has worked multiple times as one of our stations in the area "tweaks" the channel mappigs quite a bit.

Hooray Switch-Over!

I did a channel scan this morning to see what changes were afoot. I am located up outside of Oxford, fairly dead-center of Dayton and Cinci stations, so I am now getting 30 digital stations, up from 28 2 days ago.
I also live pretty near Oxford OH, about 2 miles west of Hamilton, and found out tonight I'm actually receiving FORTY digital channels from Cincinnati and Dayton. I was shocked at that total, to be honest -- and expect to get two more after WHIO-7 completes moving its permanent digital antenna and fires up at full power later this month!

Oh, also attached is WBDTnew.zip for WBDT for update for Trip if he wants it ... (Feel free to use the files in "thinktvnow.zip" for WPTO/WPTD updates if you want as well of course, trip -- Although, who knows if they'll be changing something again, soon ...)

Thanks. I've downloaded them. At some point, I'll get caught up on the site as far as data goes, right now I'm still trying to confirm the status of stations among other things...

- Trip

I also think it would be the right thing for them to require and assign unique TSID's to LP digital stations ...... As you said in a previous post, there are receivers out there with features which are dependant on unique TSID's for each station, such that (IMO) I think it's really pretty important each station send a unique TSID ...

I'm not so sure about translators, I suppose it depends upon the specific situation involved -- But personally, I have allways favored having a way for my receivers to provide some sort of indication "which" particular station is being decoded, including translators .... It's been a while since I've read through the rules developed so far for LP digitals, and thus I may be mistaken, but I don't think that's the way they're doing it ....

The only translator I have access to was one of the first LP digital "fill in" translators allowed by recent changes to the FCC rules. KRMA installed this translator in my home town of Fort Collins. It is sending an exact copy of the transport stream from their main transmitter, so the tsid is the same. Fill-in translators don't even have their own call sign, and are licensed together with the main transmitter. KRMA has other "normal" LP digital translators, e.g. K24HQ-D in Boulder. I can't receive that to verify, but I suspect that is also a direct copy of the stream from the main transmitter. There is equipment made for this purpose that allow simple modifications to the PSI and PSIP tables, but I don't think it is being used in this case.

So it's possible that the rules might be different depending on whether or not the LP digital translator is a fill-in translator or not, but with respect to the tsid, very little has been said about it.

Regardless, I think having unique tsid's for even a fill-in translator would be a good idea, although that does lead to added cost for the station.

Well it's over, or manybe just begining.
It is said "the greatest generation" on June 6, 1944 started the push to free the world of Hitler's Nazi Germany.
Well for my generation, "the baby boomers" there was another D-Day, June 12, 2009, another "longest day" it started at 12:01am and ended at 11:59pm all 1700 full power stations across the country went dark forever!
For my generation growing up with Howdy Dooty, Larry Smith, Roy Rogers, and so on. For those of us the grew up with TV in Cincinnati, WLW-Television, 9 stands for News, Tall 12, 19 the little station that could, and the "eye of Cincinnati, WIII. And of course W25AI, TV-25, RIP.
Now it's up to us Brodcasters to make somthing of this new digital world of television.

Elliott

It is the same TV stations. Nothing has changed except the streaming protocol of the data. I don't get it this ludism against digital transmission from some folks.

The TV stations are broadcasting the same daytime crap. The same nighttime crap. The same morning crap.

The only thing that has changed is that now we can view this vacuous programming in clearer picture, and often with 5.1 surround sound.

I wonder if these same people lament the loss of dial-up and steam-powered cars, as well. Or the move from coal to heat your home to electricity. Or the use of cars.

Maybe I haven't noticed this before, but there's a Severe Thunderstorm Warning for Brown, Clermont, and Highland counties at the moment. But instead of highlighting all of the counties, they're only highlighting the parts of the counties that are under the warning. That's nice, though it's probably going to be hard to see if you have an SD or small HD set.

Well it's over, or manybe just begining.
It is said "the greatest generation" on June 6, 1944 started the push to free the world of Hitler's Nazi Germany.
Well for my generation, "the baby boomers" there was another D-Day, June 12, 2009, another "longest day" it started at 12:01am and ended at 11:59pm all 1700 full power stations across the country went dark forever!
For my generation growing up with Howdy Dooty, Larry Smith, Roy Rogers, and so on. For those of us the grew up with TV in Cincinnati, WLW-Television, 9 stands for News, Tall 12, 19 the little station that could, and the "eye of Cincinnati, WIII. And of course W25AI, TV-25, RIP.
Now it's up to us Brodcasters to make somthing of this new digital world of television.

Elliott

Well said, now let's talk about how to effectively market/sell the value of your stations. NOW is the time!
I will call you tomorrow -
Jack

WLWT digital is covering the tornado warning for Owen County, KY right now. I would expect that they would cut in on the nightlight service too, but they aren't. :confused:

I thought you guys, of all people, might get a kick out of this:

I've finally had enough of my ironic dilemma. That is, working in the broadcast industry, but not being able to receive our channel at home. You see, I just ditched cable a few weeks ago and hadn't yet taken the time to set up anything more than a set of rabbit ears and some digital converters.

My home, constructed in 1895, is practically a faraday cage, so I require a nice antenna for any kind of decent reception. However, looking at prices made me decide modern antennae (many of which are gimmicks) were too expensive to gamble on.

My frustration led to inspiration while at work today, and I decided to build my own DB4 antenna from spare parts at the TV station and some wire mesh I picked up for cheap at Lowes. It was a fast, easy, bare-bones project.

My house really does hinder reception a lot, so my results were disappointing with the antenna indoors. Once I stuck it outside my bedroom window, however, I found ONE very specific sweet spot where my UHF reception jumped up really nice and high. Next thing I know, I had drill in hand, mounting it to my second floor windowsill, angled slightly upward toward WCPO's tower. (WKRP's antenna site.) I'm enjoying really nice digital UHF reception now!

...now I just sit back and wait for my neighbors to complain about the hillbilly-engineered monstrosity on the side of my house.

-Shane

P.S. - In case Elliott is reading this, let me please note that I did all the work during my downtime!

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p278/swearjarband/DB4ant2.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p278/swearjarband/DB4ant1.jpg

Excellent...Now to get a REAL antenna ;) that will withstand the elements...do a phenominal job with reception...and is VERY reasonably priced:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=U4000

I have this antenna and highly recommend it...I also previously built a DB4 and while it was good the elements took their toll and slowly but surely deterioration was the end result...Get this and be done with it...You won't be disappointed I assure you...

Excellent...Now to get a REAL antenna ;) that will withstand the elements...do a phenominal job with reception...and is VERY reasonably priced:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=U4000

I have this antenna and highly recommend it...I also previously built a DB4 and while it was good the elements took their toll and slowly but surely deterioration was the end result...Get this and be done with it...You won't be disappointed I assure you...

Thanks for the input. I'll check it out! I was looking for a no-cost solution to get me by until I found something worth buying, and it seems I've found it. You're right. The next step is to buy a REAL antenna. haha.

I really do live in a strange reception dead-spot, so if you recommend it, I will definitely put it at the top of my list. (This digital transition is proving to be very interesting for apartment renters like myself!)

I want to do something similar but am concerned about it becoming a lightning rod. How do you ground something like this so it doesn't destroy my HT?

I want to do something similar but am concerned about it becoming a lightning rod. How do you ground something like this so it doesn't destroy my HT?

So far, my preferred technique has been to refer to all lightning as "Sir." Like yourself, I'm open to all suggestions here.

I like Antennas Direct ClearStream C4 - does the trick from attic mount.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=C4

It's a little pricey ($89.00) but I now get all Cincinnati and Dayton stations.

Imagine what it could do outdoors? BTW: Solid Signal is the best for selection and prices.

Jack

I like Antennas Direct ClearStream C4 - does the trick from attic mount.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=C4

It's a little pricey ($89.00) but I now get all Cincinnati and Dayton stations.

Imagine what it could do outdoors? BTW: Solid Signal is the best for selection and prices.

Jack

What angle apart are the two cities for you? What facing did you choose for your antenna?

What angle apart are the two cities for you? What facing did you choose for your antenna?

From Sharonville, I faced it slightly SE toward Cincinnati with the back end facing Dayton. I'm 15 miles north of the Cincy towers and 30 miles south of the Dayton towers - as the crow flies (I think that's the saying).

Note: Since the C4 is a non-amplified antenna, an inexpensive in-line amplifier will provide you that extra signal "boost". The great thing about this antenna is its compact size.

I may take a photo and send to everyone.

Here are my daytime signal readings:

Cincy:

-WLWT: 96%
-WCPO: 96%
-WKRC: 96%
-WPTO: 100%
-WXIX: 96%
-WCET: 100%
-WCVN: 60%
-WOTH: 70%

Dayton:

-WDTN: 90%
-WHIO: 93%
-WPTD: 93%
-WBDT: 77%
-WKEF: 77%
-WRGT: 77%

I'm sure everyone probably knows this, but if you are still having issues with where to place and direct your indoor/outdoor antennas, these websites provide more than enough guidance:

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

http://tvfool.com/ (this one is awesome - very helpful!)

Jack

Shane,
Me, and your buddy Doc, (Mr. Schwarberg) are proud of you.
The rest of the people out there in TV land would also be happy when you get the time right in the PSIP.:)

Elliott

Please re-scan for WOTH DT - it's now back up and running better than ever.
Great selection of diverse programming such as WKRP-TV and RTV (Retro Television).
You won't be disappointed!
Spread the word to all your friends....:)

A couple of things:

-My issues with WPTO/WPTD are EPG-provider issues. Specifically, my HTPC software (SageTV) gets EPG info from Zap2It.com, and they have not updated - they still have 14.2 through 14.6, 16.2 through 16.6. So until Zap2It updates their data, I will have to live with the cobbled-together manual forcing of channels that I currently have. Ugh. Of course, I suppose Zap2It is probably a little bit busy, updating every changed station across the entire country. I'm sure they'll get to us eventually... although they still have not picked up the whole digital 25 thing (25.1-25.4). :rolleyes:

-Since Friday, I am now picking up WKON (Owenton PBS), WIPB (Muncie/Ball State PBS), and WWHO (Columbus CW). It may just be the weather lately, and frankly, I don't really need them, but I suddenly am getting these stations.

-Shane - welcome to the world of homemade antennas. :D Both of mine work great - a vertical DB8 (two DB4's stacked one above the other), and a "Screen-reflected Single Bay Gray-Hoverman". Of course, mine are in an attic, so I have no weather or grounding issues. ;)

Note: Since the C4 is a non-amplified antenna, an inexpensive in-line amplifier will provide you that extra signal "boost". The great thing about this antenna is its compact size.



Do those in-line amplifiers work very well? Should they be placed at the start of the run of cable, or closer towards the middle, or end of the cable? I have a long run from my attic antenna, and one of my sets is not getting WCVN & WOTH anymore.

Do those in-line amplifiers work very well? Should they be placed at the start of the run of cable, or closer towards the middle, or end of the cable? I have a long run from my attic antenna, and one of my sets is not getting WCVN & WOTH anymore.

You put it at the antenna, as it is boosting the immediate signal from the antenna, and not any static that would have built up along the path toward the amp.

Mine is near the end of the antenna coming down from the attic, right before going into the television.

Works fine - as you see from my signal readings - previous post above.

Mine is near the end of the antenna coming down from the attic, right before going into the television.

Works fine - as you see from my signal readings - previous post above.
If that is the case, you must have a really clean signal, because ngarrang is correct - putting an amp farther down the line amplifies everything upstream of it, including any noise that the line has created. As "good practice", you want the amp as close to the antenna as possible, so you are amplifying the signal right as it is received.

But, as with all things antenna-related, your mileage may vary. There is quite a bit of mysterious magic behind the science. ;)

I am getting alot of breakup on 25.1-.4 with my indoor antenna. It was fine just a few hrs ago.

I had to turn the amp on for the antenna to get it to stop breaking up. I have never had to use it before for WOTH.

If that is the case, you must have a really clean signal, because ngarrang is correct - putting an amp farther down the line amplifies everything upstream of it, including any noise that the line has created. As "good practice", you want the amp as close to the antenna as possible, so you are amplifying the signal right as it is received.

But, as with all things antenna-related, your mileage may vary. There is quite a bit of mysterious magic behind the science. ;)

Pretty much the rule of thumb is that the preamp can go anywhere inline...Most pre-amps are mast mounted and as such are mounted closer to the antenna...

There are also preamps that are to be mounted indoors or in a weather proof housing of some type...

I have a preamp or better known as a house amp that is mounted behind my equipment rack 30' from the antenna...The output goes to the input of my power conditioner internal 2 way splitter...

The thing about preamps is no matter where you put them...if the signal is weak at the antenna it is that weak signal that is being amplified...A preamp does not improve a signal at all...A pre amp only amplifies the existing signal and a quality preamp will not add nordetract to or from that signal over and above the strength of the signal...

So the cable from the antenna to the preamp either mast mount or indoors needs to be a quality shielded RG6 cable at a minimum...That will help to reject any interferring stray signals and the amp can be installed indoors or out and can have the same results...;)

I had to turn the amp on for the antenna to get it to stop breaking up. I have never had to use it before for WOTH.

I have zero difference in my 25 reception...

Please re-scan for WOTH DT - it's now back up and running better than ever.
Great selection of diverse programming such as WKRP-TV and RTV (Retro Television).
You won't be disappointed!
Spread the word to all your friends....:)

Actually it has been back on air for the past 3 days...;)

-Since Friday, I am now picking up WKON (Owenton PBS), WIPB (Muncie/Ball State PBS), and WWHO (Columbus CW). It may just be the weather lately, and frankly, I don't really need them, but I suddenly am getting these stations.

I was picking up WUPX last night (almost 100 miles away) from around 8:15 PM - 8:30 PM. I've gotten their analog signal before, but not their digital. Apparently there was some good tropo working. I tried again tonight and couldn't get it.

I will do a re-scan tonight to see if I can pickup Channel 25. To date, my TV has not detected it.

I am happy to say that I am getting Channel 26 loud and clear, where I wasn't before the switch.

Are any of you programming out the the SD broadcast of the channels that are doing that along with an HD formatted picture?

Concerning WPTD/WPTO guide issues, TVGoS digital listings via DTVPal DVR (TR-50) are also screwed up for them, as the guide info is still being displayed per the old VCT minor channel #'s .... Note: however, DTVPal DVR will only display info for the "services"(subchannels) you are receiving/which have been scanned in, so given I've rescanned/etc. since the WPTO/WPTD changes, of course x.1~5 are listed, not x.6, although the listings are probably still there for it in the TVGoS streams, and also, therefore since the x.1 info isn't present from TVGoS, DTVPal is using the (correct) info from the PSIP EITs for it ...

It took about 6 months after they switched 48.2 from "World" to "Create" for WCET's 48.2 listings via TVGoS on DTVPal DVR to change from "World" To "create", I wonder if it's going to take that long (or longer) for this to get fixed with WPTD/WPTO ...

----------------------

On another note, I notice WOTH-LD is now sending a SCTE 127 "VBI/Teletext" stream -- Don't know what it's for, The VBI data descriptor being sent is :

07 02 f4 d4

Haven't been able to decipher what that might be for yet per a SCTE 127 document I found ...

The rest of the people out there in TV land would also be happy when you get the time right in the PSIP.

Well, count me happy then. It looks like Shane fixed it. :D

Many of the DirecTv subscribers enjoy having OTA schedule data in your on screen program guides. It doesn't appear Dish Network plans to include OTA guides for WOTH (WKRP, RTV) in the near future.

From Dish Network:

"We are currently looking into supporting guide data for all over-the-air channels in a market, regardless of whether or not those channels are carried by DISH Network. At present, however, as there are now over 1,600 digital stations in the U.S., with many of those stations broadcasting multiple over-the-air channels, we as of yet have no timeline for this capability."

Lynne Steven
Echostar Systems Engineering
Lynne.Steven@echostar.com


Matt@WKRP

Well, count me happy then. It looks like Shane fixed it. :D

Yep. I had the pleasure of spending the entire afternoon with the "A Team" of WOTH.
Great people with real passion for what they do. Very impressive group. It's good to see the "little guy" hang in there and keep moving - that's dedication to the industry.
So much potential with these stations still to be realized! Stay tuned.

Just re-scanned tonight with DirecTV H20 receiver.

All 4 WOTH/WBQC channels map correctly in the on-screen guide AND all of the program data is accurate and displaying correct times.

Not sure about Dish, but DirecTV got it right.

Now, let's get these channels on TWC where they rightfully belong!

J.

No program info on my EPG...However the correct time is displayed...

I thought you guys, of all people, might get a kick out of this:

I've finally had enough of my ironic dilemma. That is, working in the broadcast industry, but not being able to receive our channel at home. You see, I just ditched cable a few weeks ago and hadn't yet taken the time to set up anything more than a set of rabbit ears and some digital converters.

My home, constructed in 1895, is practically a faraday cage, so I require a nice antenna for any kind of decent reception. However, looking at prices made me decide modern antennae (many of which are gimmicks) were too expensive to gamble on.

My frustration led to inspiration while at work today, and I decided to build my own DB4 antenna from spare parts at the TV station and some wire mesh I picked up for cheap at Lowes. It was a fast, easy, bare-bones project.

My house really does hinder reception a lot, so my results were disappointing with the antenna indoors. Once I stuck it outside my bedroom window, however, I found ONE very specific sweet spot where my UHF reception jumped up really nice and high. Next thing I know, I had drill in hand, mounting it to my second floor windowsill, angled slightly upward toward WCPO's tower. (WKRP's antenna site.) I'm enjoying really nice digital UHF reception now!

...now I just sit back and wait for my neighbors to complain about the hillbilly-engineered monstrosity on the side of my house.

-Shane

P.S. - In case Elliott is reading this, let me please note that I did all the work during my downtime!

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p278/swearjarband/DB4ant2.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p278/swearjarband/DB4ant1.jpg

Someone had a similar style antennae on a website i might get shock fooling with on of those things.

Tsreader HTML files for WOTH-LD in Attached zip file...

"WOTHwithThumbsandeits.htm" Includes info in EIT's and Thumbnails for anyone outside the area/etc who wants to look at what a nice job they're doing! -- Unfortunetly, Tsreader doesn't save the STT info in the HTM files, but it's good now, as others have mentioned ....

Also included however is another HTML file for Trip with no eit's and nothumbnails ... they've changed around their PID addresses a bit (now following the "program Paradigm"), and as I mentioned earlier, added the VBI/Teletext stream, so figured he'd want the update ...

No WOTH in Oxford. :(

I want more than the 32 channels I can currently scan for!

Thanks. I don't know when I'll get to update it on the site. I'm busy tracking the bunch of emergency power boosts and other goodies for VHF failures.

- Trip

Just re-scanned tonight with DirecTV H20 receiver.

All 4 WOTH/WBQC channels map correctly in the on-screen guide AND all of the program data is accurate and displaying correct times.

Not sure about Dish, but DirecTV got it right.

Now, let's get these channels on TWC where they rightfully belong!

J.

Excellent. My HTPC only gets EPG data available to cable/satellite providers (even for OTA listings), so I am glad they got picked up on DirecTV. Hopefully I can replace that "No data" very soon.

Can you tell me how they are listed? WOTHLD, WOTHLD2, etc., or "WKRP", "Skyline", etc.?

Also, has DirecTV made changes to the WPTO/WPTD lineups? Specifically, have the channel names changed? For example, what was 14-6 "WPTODT6" (the HD channel) is now "14HD" and is at 14-1. Are subchannels available in DirecTV? Have the names or numbers (whether subchannels or just the main channel) changed at all in DirecTV?

On my Direct TV box WOTH/WBQC shows up as 25.1 - 25.4.
Regarding mapping of WPTD channel 16 you will need to reset/restore your receiver to original settings, go through the sat/antenna set-up process, then re-scan - everything will then be fine.

25 now comes in with EPG!!! :D

25-1 WOTH-LD
25-2 WKRP-TV
25-3 RTV 25
25-4 Jewelery Television

AND the time is correct!!!

Congratulations Shane and Elliot!!!

No Program description as yet but...babysteps gentlemen...babysteps...;)

So I was driving down I-71 this morning and saw a worker in a metal cage ascend WCPO's tower. Has anyone heard or seen how well they're progressing with their new digital transmitter/antenna? Pictures and videos would be welcome. ;)

Regarding mapping of WPTD channel 16 you will need to reset/restore your receiver to original settings, go through the sat/antenna set-up process, then re-scan - everything will then be fine.

Given the WPTD/WPTO changes in program_number and TVCT Minor channel #'s for their streams, Some EPG info from various providers may need to be updated "on their end" as well ...

FWIW, When I checked it again the other night(an issue which was not fixed by what I'll call the "double rescanning" method you mention) That does indeed seem to have already happened since my last post regarding TVGoS digital Listings via DTVPal DVR and WPTO, as the listings are in the right place now for 14.1~14.4 (when I checked it, a night or two ago there was "no program info" from TVGoS for 14.5, however) .... haven't checked WPTD as the way I currently have it set up I can only get listings via TVGoS digital from WKRC's TVGoS STream via DTVPal DVR from the Cincinnati stations, and am using EPG info on it from PSIP EIT's from WPTD on DTVPalDVR, but assume that's probably the case with them as well ....

Hey all - I currently have TWC's Road Runner + Basic Cable here in Cincinnati, and I am picking up about 20 channels (including the HD locals of course) with my HDHomeRun. My question is: If I cancel Basic Cable, will I still be able to pick up these channels? I've read several posts that claim that if you have Road Runner, you can pick up the channels in Clear QAM...but just wanting to verify this before I cancel service. Thanks!

CoolSwoosh

Hey all - I currently have TWC's Road Runner + Basic Cable here in Cincinnati, and I am picking up about 20 channels (including the HD locals of course) with my HDHomeRun. My question is: If I cancel Basic Cable, will I still be able to pick up these channels? I've read several posts that claim that if you have Road Runner, you can pick up the channels in Clear QAM...but just wanting to verify this before I cancel service. Thanks!

CoolSwoosh

Do you mean the ~$12 basic cable or the ~$40 Basic cable?
I understand it as you do but I subscribed to the basic $12 service anyway just so I can call and bitch when it goes out. :D

Also, I live in Fairfield and discovered that since the analog shutdown I can get most Dayton Channels with an antenna but I have zero components that let me connect both at the same time unless I use a splitter. Would this work?

Do you mean the ~$12 basic cable or the ~$40 Basic cable?
I understand it as you do but I subscribed to the basic $12 service anyway just so I can call and bitch when it goes out. :D

Also, I live in Fairfield and discovered that since the analog shutdown I can get most Dayton Channels with an antenna but I have zero components that let me connect both at the same time unless I use a splitter. Would this work?

No...You need a diplexer not a splitter...

I've read several posts that claim that if you have Road Runner, you can pick up the channels in Clear

QAM channels only...

Hey all - I currently have TWC's Road Runner + Basic Cable here in Cincinnati, and I am picking up about 20 channels (including the HD locals of course) with my HDHomeRun. My question is: If I cancel Basic Cable, will I still be able to pick up these channels? I've read several posts that claim that if you have Road Runner, you can pick up the channels in Clear QAM...but just wanting to verify this before I cancel service. Thanks!

CoolSwoosh

Yes you can, I was able to do this for the last 2 years. I never had basic cable, (just Road Runner) but was able to get it. I live in Colerain Twp. I could get Chs 2-24, and the local HD channels on QAM. As of April though I've switched to Fuse.

No...You need a diplexer not a splitter...


OH! Never heard of that. Thanks for saving me some aggravation.

OH! Never heard of that. Thanks for saving me some aggravation.

A cheap and easy way to do it though is to use an A-B switch instead...You just then change the switch to the input you want to watch and thats it...Remote control and manual A-B switches are sold and very easy to connect and use...That would be your best bet in my opinion...

I thought they were going to pull the plug on WBQC 38 by now... :confused:

I thought they were going to pull the plug on WBQC 38 by now... :confused:

Do they still have an app with the FCC to move WBQC to digital on Ch 20? I can not get WOTH Ch 25 at my location due to WAVE being on the same Channel.

Do they still have an app with the FCC to move WBQC to digital on Ch 20?

As far as I can tell, their application for digital 20 (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1178688) is valid until 8/13/2010.

I can not get WOTH Ch 25 at my location due to WAVE being on the same Channel.

Really? I'm surprised the FCC gave WOTH-LD channel 47 since WAVE is so close.

New to the forum. I apologize if this question has been asked in this thread previously.

I purchased an audio / video receiver recently. I am having problems integrating it with my Time Warner Pace DC-550 HD cable box. Here is the scenario.

I have the HD cable box connected to the AVR via HDMI input. I have an HDMI output from the AVR connected to my HD TV.

When changing channels, the new channel video and audio is tuned for approx. 1 second, and then drops out. Approx. 5 seconds later, I hear audio for about 1 second and then it drops out. About 30 seconds later, the audio and video return and are stable. This happens every time the channel is changed.

I have connected the cable box directly to the tv via the HDMI cable and do not have the problem described above.

I spoke to the AVR manufacturer, and this is what they indicated.

It sounds like the Cable box is not reacting well with the repeater functions of the AVR. You can get around this by going into the setup of the Cable Box and check to see if there is a Video or HDMI setting for SD conversion or 4:3 override. This is where the cable box handles conversion of SD resolution to HD resolution. It is a common issue we hear of with Motorolla cable boxes as well. Typically turning off this feature in the cable box and allowing the AVR unit to handle the conversion corrects the problem your seeing.

So I download the manual for the Pace DC-550 from the Time Warner website and find the information about changing the HD settings of the cable box. I have followed the instructions but am not able to change the settings. I called TW support and they were pretty clueless.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? I would appreciate your help!

What AVR are you using???

What AVR are you using???

It's a Harmon Kardon AVR 247 7.1-Channel A/V Receiver With HDMI™ Switching and Audio/Video Processing. Thanks,

The Pace 550 was one of the first HD set top boxes deployed by TWC and it is no longer in production. The one I had was only equipped with DVI (digital video only), no HDMI (digital video+audio). DVI gave me nothing but problems with my Samsung DLP so I gave up and reverted to component (analog) video. I don't think Pace (or the TWC software loaded) ever had HDCP implemented properly.

So I would recommend starting by trading the 550 in for one of the current HD set top boxes. Unless you want a DVR you will probably end up with a Scientific Atlanta 4240HDC.

I did this last fall when I replaced my DLP with one that has HDMI. I now switch HDMI via an Onkyo TX-SR876 and although there are annoying delays when changing channels, they are on the order of 8-12 seconds. These can be minimized by setting the cable box to output a single resolution (1080i if your display supports it) but the video processing of my Onkyo does a much better job of upscaling so I live with the delay.

You can exchange your box at the TWC office in Tri-County Mall and avoid scheduling a service call.

I would recommend starting by trading the 550 in for one of the current HD set top boxes.

You can exchange your box at the TWC office in Tri-County Mall and avoid scheduling a service call.

I agree...

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. I will give the Scientific Atlanta box a try.

Anyone know if the new WCOP digital antenna has been "top mounted" yet and operating on the tower in Mt. Auburn? I thought the planned completion dates was 6/26 (Friday). Inquiring minds would like to know.
Also, isn't the same scenario (digital antenna top mount) happening in Dayton for WHIO?
Thanks.
Jack

This is about as unscientific as it comes, but I'd say no, the work's probably not completed yet, judging from my signal-quality meter and reception as of last night.

I canceled my DirecTV to save money (and boy has it!). I have the HD receiver. Question: Am I able to use it without the satellite hook-up as a possibly better OTA TV tuner than the one built in to my Vizio TV?

what model of directv? if its an older hughes htl-hd or an old hd tivo then you are good to go - if its a newer h2x or hr2x, then you need the directv subscription

This is about as unscientific as it comes, but I'd say no, the work's probably not completed yet, judging from my signal-quality meter and reception as of last night.

They're doing something though. The top 1/4 or 1/5 of their tower is covered by some yellow... scaffolding, perhaps? :confused: I couldn't take a picture. They may not be ready to roll out their new configuration by tomorrow, but we'll see.

I have the H21-200 model. The only coaxial connection is labeled Satellite-In.

I have the H21-200 model. The only coaxial connection is labeled Satellite-In.

You have the "newer" model of DirecTV HD receiver which does not have an internal OTA (over-the-air) antenna input (only for satellite).

You will have to request from DirecTV for the "add-on" OTA module for the H21-200 model. Or, as stated in an other responses, you could just watch the local channels in HD from DirecTV. Note: This option however limits your selection of local over-the-air channels to the major networks. DirecTV does not provide local sub-channels such as This TV (19.2) and all of the WOTH channels such as 25.2 (WKRP) and 25.3 (RTV).

then without a subscription and the am20 or whatever the external tuner is called - that box is a brick to you :(

Don't all of the recent tuners actually belong to D* regardless of purchase/rental ? I thought if you drop service they could demand the tuner back.

i think you can buy them for much more.. but I think most just pay the extortion fee of $99 or $199 for the hd dvr - I think the purchase prices are 5x the extortion price.

This is interesting, WOTH-LP (Analog) Has filed a displacement app for 19 - It's for 150KW ERP, Non-DA :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101317887&formid=346&fac_num=19432

----------

If it works out, I suppose if they wanted, when/if analog shut off for LP's occurs (or before then), I suppose they could move the (current) digital from 47 to 19 ....

WBKI on 19 sure puts out a strong signal, though, .... What is likely WBKI on 19 has been registring on the signal meter here pretty much every time I've looked the past 24 hours ... I recall for a time when WCET(digital) was running at 7.5KW ERP STA -- It was plenty of power for up here, but on certian rare occasions WBKI (analog on 34) would blast in here and cause a dropout or two .... never saw that happen again after WCET went to 215KW ERP ....

18 seems pretty empty around here nowadays, with the closest co-channel in Bowling Green, KY ...(WKYU), and I think there's an LP on 18 in Lima .. On 17 --- I think WKPC and WQCW would probaby be far enough away for the 1st adacent channel spacing rules -- But, there is a LP that might be a 1st adajcent channel concern W17AY Seaman, if they're still on the air ....

This is interesting, WOTH-LP (Analog) Has filed a displacement app for 19 - It's for 150KW ERP, Non-DA

I guess I'm a bit confused by this... The justification for displacement says:
WOTH-LP WAS DISPLACED WHEN WBDT, FAC. ID 70138, MOVED FROM PRE-TRANSITION CHANNEL 18 TO POST-TRANSITION CHANNEL 26, WITH 770 KW DIGITAL ERP. THE TRANSMITTER SITE OF WBDT IS ONLY 69.8 KM FROM THE TRANSMITTER SITE OF WOTH-LP, AND THE WBDT SIGNAL IS FIRST-ADJACENT TO WOTH-LP.
Yet, before WBDT-DT moved to 26, WBDT-TV (analog) was already there on 26.

Also, it seems a lot of expense and hassle for an analog station, which, after the transition of the full-power stations, as I believe Mr. Block himself said, "no one will be watching." Only thing I can think of is that they plan to cut to digital at some point and will then have two digital LP stations.

WBDT-DT on 26 is next to WOTH-LP 25 analog. The digital interferes with the analog signal on 25.

That's the justification that's being used, anyway.

- Trip

WBQC (previously W25AI) was on 25 originally but they had to move to 38 keep Class A status because of the WBDT first adjacent channel issue ....

WBDT (used to be WDPX/Pax and before that was WTJC - independant) moved from using a shorter stick/Lower power operation which was located farther from Cincinnati in Springfield, Ohio to the current location at the Dayton Antenna farm(Just SW of Downtown Dayton) when ACME bought them, which was also around the time WBQC got Class A status .... so, From then (99 or 2000 or so) to Late 2004 or early 2005 when WBQC moved to 38, WBQC was kind of "in limbo" regarding the Class A status due to the adjacent channel interference protection issue with WBDT until they could get a CP and move to another channel (38) ....

WOTH-LP (Was W35?? and W39?? before the WOTH-LP callsign) was originally on 35, and was displaced from 35 by WLWT-DT in '98 ... They moved to 39 at the time, then they were displaced again by WKOI-DT in 2003 -- WOTH then moved temporarily to 38, then in late 2004(or early 2005), WBQC+WOTH "switched channels" (WOTH making use of what was the transmitter/antenna/etc. for WBQC), So WBQC could keep Class A status (again due to the first adjacent channel issue with WBDT) --- During the time they operated(analog) on 25, as an LP station, they just accepted the interference from WBDT analog ....

If the Channel 19 works out for them with FCC, the way I look at it is, it gives them another option for the future other than digital on 47. Should they decide to "flash cut" to digital on 19 when analog LP goes away(if they actually ever use 19 for analog - They might not, who knows), or perhaps even earlier than that, they could move current WOTH-LD 47 to 19 ... It would put both their stations on 1st adjacent channels if WBQC builds out the digital on the digital companion channel 20 rather than flash cutting WBQC to digital on 38 .... WBQC 38 and WKOI-DT 39 are more than 15 miles apart, thus not a good idea for 1st adjacent channel digitals, it's really not so great for analog 38 now if you are aiming near WKOI's stick to get WBQC on 38 ...

Which would also work nicely(co-located N +/-1 channels for WOTH/WBQC digitals) for DTV, and perhaps might make it less likely WOTH would be displaced --- Given, presumably, after LP analog shut off, WBQC digital would have Class A status (if not full power status - there has been some talk in DC about granting Full power status to Class A's, I'm not sure if that has been just "talk" or what ...... ) -- They'd be LP (not class A) on a digital companion channel though ...