I canceled my cable subscription last November. I just refuse to pay $89 a month for it which adds up to $1,068 a year. I now have HD OTA. I have two sources of ESPN. I'm lucky my AT&T DSL works with ESPN360.com. I watched a lot of college games on there over the weekend.

http://www.justin.tv/espn2k9

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/index

Regarding this post made last week IIRC... thanks for the links. Also, I coulda sworn TW Cable customers used to get the ESPN360 webcasts? I just tried to tune in to the OSU game and it no longer works, saying my ISP is not affiliated.

I know for a fact it was working several months ago when I used it last. I was hoping the feed was more stable than the justin.tv link, which got kinda choppy here when it became popular.

I have done a few searches trying to find this but no luck. I am switching to OTA from cable. I have went to the solid signal website and they recommended this antenna Winegard HD-1080 2-Bay Bowtie UHF and High Band VHF Antenna (HD-1080). it all looks ok, but i am confused about being able to pick up channel 5 WLWT, the description on that antenna says it will pick up channel 7 - 69, will that also pick up channel 5. I know this may be a dumb question but i could not figure it out.

It also looks like they do not recommd any kind of an amplifier. I will be mounting this on my roof and will have about 100 feet of cable (was going to use the same wires insight cable used to come in the house on). going to 6 tv's.

Any help would be great i need to get this right the first time the wife is watching :)

WLWT's signal is on UHF (channel 35). You don't need to worry about a low-VHF antenna.

- Trip

It also looks like they do not recommd any kind of an amplifier. I will be mounting this on my roof and will have about 100 feet of cable (was going to use the same wires insight cable used to come in the house on). going to 6 tv's.

You may need a distribution amplifier though. But to start out and to get the local Cincinnati stations, you should be fine.

Great thanks for the quick response

For 100' of RG6 as well as splitting the signal 6 ways for 6 TVs there is no "might need" in the equation...You WILL NEED a distribution amp OR an amp with about 20dB output before your 6 way splitter...All this is taking into account that the 100' RG6 is the distance between the antenna and the splitter and NOT the total length of RG6 of the entire system...

Channel 48 has put 'CET World' back on the air!!! Don't know why but the channel # is not remapping to CH48 yet though...Still registers as 34-3 34-4 & 34-5 as the even after a rescan...

It's fading at 10:45am, but noticed a bit of interesting Tropo DX this morning, Including WTVF 5 Nashville (263 Miles) in Solid+with a farily strong signal from 8:45am~10:30am .... (Screenshot and in attached zip file TSreader HTML export+thumbs attached) ...

WKRN 27 (Nashville) also Locked briefly at 10:35 AM -- I'd seen that one, and WTVF on 56 pre-transition numerous times, But this morning is the first time I've seen Nashville post-transition ...

WBXX 20 Crossville/Knoxville occasionally locking as well, and of course, WLJC in solid ...

Haven't seen much else this morning tropo wise besides Lexington, Columbus stations + Sniffs from Louisille+ probably WISH 9 Indy/WIPB 23 ....

Oh -- Apparent CCI on 12 from exact direction of WYMT (Azimuth 158 degrees) is taking out WKRC (azimuth 188) with ant aimed towards WYMT ---While WKRC still decodes fine with ant aimed at WKRC, SNR is lower than usual ...

Channel 48 has put 'CET World' back on the air!!! Don't know why but the channel # is not remapping to CH48 yet though...Still registers as 34-3 34-4 & 34-5 as the even after a rescan...

WCET is not currently sending any PSIP data ... Their PSIP encoder is probably currently off-line ...

TSreader HTML export attached for WCET currently ...

Update:

PSIP will be back from them(It's required by FCC for full service stations), but Time will tell I suppose whether or not CET-World OTA is a "mistake", or whether or not CET-World goes back into the null packet stream for OTA (but not for the feed via fiber to TWC) ....

Oh, also notice the AC3 audio stream that was as PID 42 (at 0x002a - The AC3 stream without proper descriptors/etc which was a reading service for the blind) is no longer present ...

Interestingly, they have a stream set up for CET World...

- Trip

No...You need a diplexer not a splitter...


Resurrecting this post from June!

Splicer, I now have a hillbilly setup where I can get all of the Dayton HD stations with my attic antenna and the Cincinnati QAM stations with my $11 basic cable. I am using my Hauppauge 2250 for the QAM and my external ATSC tuner for the Dayton OTA stations. My tuner actually has a setting to scan for OTA and cable channels at once so I am thinking I could connect both the antenna and the coax at the same time using a "diplexer ". This way I could switch between Dayton and Cincy without switching tuners.

Would this work? If so could you recommend a diplexer? I have to admit this Kentucky engineering is addictive! I will eventually post a pic of my attic antenna hanging from a plant hanger on the ceiling to prove it! :D:D

Interestingly, they have a stream set up for CET World...


They've had it in the Mux they sent to TW via Fiber, but according to info posted previously on this thread, those bits for CET-World went into the null packet stream for OTA (That's why it was allways at least at bit over 2 Mb/s in the OTA Null packet stream) -- I know it sounds weird .... See jimp2244's previous posts on the issue ...

Sorry for going backwards, had to think about this one a little bit :


For 100' of RG6 as well as splitting the signal 6 ways for 6 TVs there is no "might need" in the equation...You WILL NEED a distribution amp OR an amp with about 20dB output before your 6 way splitter...All this is taking into account that the 100' RG6 is the distance between the antenna and the splitter and NOT the total length of RG6 of the entire system...


On UHF, Loss in lets say, 200FT RG-6 coax should be about 12dB, shouldn't be anymore than 6dB or so on VHF --- Loss of splitting the signal about 5 times(say, a 4 way splitter Plus 1 2 way splitter) would be about 12db ... Let's also add several dB to be on the conservative side for insertion losses in the splitters/etc and say the loss in splitters/coax may be as much as about 30dB ..

Then, we have the loss in Balun (this will vary a bit at different frequencies, but Let's be conservative and say 3dB) , So, let's use a Conservative total loss figure of - 33dB for UHF, -27dB for VHF ....

Now we have to add the antenna gain --- I didn't look it up for the model of antenna specified, but lets estimate, for a 2 bay bowtie, about 7dB gain on UHF, and having no idea if that antenna actually has any VHF elements on it, let's be conservative and estimate about - 10dB gain on VHF-HI ( 0dB gain would be "rabbit ears") .....

So, our antenna gain - Feedline/splitter/balun loss estimate on VHF is -37db, and - 26dB for UHF ... In some cases, having antenna indoors can produce similar results (but with no splitters or long feedline runs) ....

Taking into account thermal noise floor (about -106dBmW for our 6MHZ wide channel), and the 15dB SNR required to decode DTV signals (Note - this gives us a "0" dB "NM" in TVfool which is equal to about -91dBmW) , and about a 7dB NF for typical DTV receiver front end(note - TV fool "NM" does NOT take receiver/sytem NF into account) -- We need about -84dBm signal level At receiver input to decode DTV signals At threshold(minimum) levels ...

So, if we add our antenna gain and Feedline/splitter/balun loss ( a net loss in this case) estimate to what we need for minimum signal level at receiver input, we find we need signal levels (at antenna/before antenna gain) of about -47dBm on VHF, and about - 58dBm on UHF in order to decode DTV signals at threshold levels (barely) .... Ideally, we would probably want about an extra 10dB fade margin on top of that ...

A Generic TVfool plot for Erlanger, KY predicts signal levels between -21.2dBm and -36dBm for the Full Service Cincinnati stations, -41dBm for WOTH-LD ..... Giving us even our 10DB "fade margin" .... Dayton stations however are predicted to be in the range of -58~-66dBm, for which in this case we'd likely need some bit of amplfication to overcome our significant losses ...

Of course, real world results may be different, and it's better to run a TVfool plot for the exact receive location, especially if terrain obstructions may be an issue ...

Resurrecting this post from June!

Splicer, I know have a hillbilly setup where I can get all of the Dayton HD stations with my attic antenna and the Cincinnati QAM stations with my $11 basic cable. I am using my Hauppauge 2250 for the QAM and my external ATSC tuner for the Dayton OTA stations. My tuner actually has a setting to scan for OTA and cable channels at once so I am thinking I could connect both the antenna and the coax at the same time using a "diplexer ". This way I could switch between Dayton and Cincy without switching tuners.

Would this work? If so could you recommend a diplexer? I have to admit this Kentucky engineering is addictive! I will eventually post a pic of my attic antenna hanging from a plant hanger on the ceiling to prove it! :D:D

Unfortunately you cannot diplex OTA and cable together...Doing so will cause havoc in the system...Are you sure that the tuner (we are talking about the ATSC tuner and NOT the hauppauge yes???) Will scan OTA & cable at once??? You sure it isn't scanning NTSC & ATSC at once instead??? Generally you would need to have dual 75ohm inputs to a tuner for the tuner to accomplish a feat like that...And while I do believe I have heard of such a tuner being produced at one time it is a rare animal and was very expensive...

For example...I have a super sweet NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner that will tune in all basic (analog) cable channels AND all in the clear QAM channels at the same time...In order to do this the box is utilizing both the NTSC and the QAM tuners simultaneously...Now to tune in everything OTA which includes the still analog low power stations it utilizes the NTSC & the ATSC tuner simultaneously...I am thinking that you are thinking the former (NTSC/QAM) as being OTA/cable in your description...

Several of the Hauppauge products do both QAM + 8VSB (QAM) via it's ATSC "tuner" as Bubster noted ... but, unless you have seperate inputs for digital cable(QAM) and antenna on your particular product(I don't know if any have those), you'd want a A/B switch for (a)cable feed, (b) antenna feed before the ATSC input because of the reason farther below... , and some(such as my HVR1600) also have a seperate tuner/seperate RF input for NTSC analog ...

My Sony KD34XBR960 HDTV actually has seperate RF inputs for Antenna (ATSC+NTSC) and QAM/NTSC (digital with Cablecard/analog cable) ... You switch between them with the "ANT" button on the remote ...

Cable+OTA use some of the same frequencies (VHF channel 2~13 are the same, UHF channels 14~69 OTA are(generally) channels 65~125 on cable, excepting channel 95~99 on cable which are FM frequencies) ..... That's why you can't diplex cable+OTA together, a signal(such as say QAM signal) on cable on say, channel 12+a signal(say 8VSB) on OTA on channel 12 would interfere with each other ..... There's a handy Frequency/channel chart for OTA+Cable here :

http://www.csgnetwork.com/tvfreqtable.html

For 100' of RG6 as well as splitting the signal 6 ways for 6 TVs there is no "might need" in the equation...You WILL NEED a distribution amp OR an amp with about 20dB output before your 6 way splitter...All this is taking into account that the 100' RG6 is the distance between the antenna and the splitter and NOT the total length of RG6 of the entire system...

My setup will be about 65ft of RG6, then the splitter to 6 Tv's Each TV run of RG6 will be about 30 feet.

is there an amp that you can recommend

My setup will be about 65ft of RG6, then the splitter to 6 Tv's Each TV run of RG6 will be about 30 feet.

is there an amp that you can recommend

Something similar to this is what you want:

http://www.summitsource.com/15-db-signal-digital-distribution-amplifier-antenna-catv-54-1000-mhz-low-noise-winegard-hda100-broadcast-offair-aerial-video-amp-with-rf-input-12-vdc-industrial-weather-resistant-design-part-hda100-p-8160.html

Check around the net for the best price...Motorola and Nexxtech also make these...All are top shelf quality low noise reliable pre amps that will do what you need for a reasonable price...There are also some that will have multiple outputs already built-in tho they will be higher priced...

Are you sure that the tuner (we are talking about the ATSC tuner and NOT the hauppauge yes???) Will scan OTA & cable at once??? You sure it isn't scanning NTSC & ATSC at once instead???

I simply noticed when I scanned for Dayton OTA stations that my Samsung external tuner has a selection that said cable+Air. Whether it really does QAM and ATSC at the same time I have no clue. I know my berdroom LG LCD does though. It just wont pick anything up since I don't have an antenna attached to it.

Here's what the external Samsung screen says when I go to scan:

When I run the scan on my LG tv it scans OTA, qam, and analog cable. The rub is there is no way to attach both the cable and an antenna at the same time. I assume this is on purpose? I physically see it scanning QAM, NTSC, and ATSC in succession however.

No matter, I really would use this capability on my Home Theater but really could care less about using on my bedroom TV.

Thats interesting...My tuners give methe option (mandared really) that I choose either OTA or QAM on one tuner and OTA (NTSC & ATSC) or cable (NTSC & QAM) on a different tuner I have...

As long as the tuner will retain its previous memory for what ever format was scanned first then as Jeff said an A/B switch would be needed to switch the input signals...

According to NBC last night the game will start at 8:30PM and not 8:20...Now if this is going to be a recurring thing or not is yet to be seen...I'm thinking it is only for the season opener...
NBC transitioned from FNIA to SNF at 8:20. Kickoff was at 8:30 though. We usually list based on the programming start times and not exact kickoff times. Either way it's not much different. :)

Something similar to this is what you want:

http://www.summitsource.com/15-db-signal-digital-distribution-amplifier-antenna-catv-54-1000-mhz-low-noise-winegard-hda100-broadcast-offair-aerial-video-amp-with-rf-input-12-vdc-industrial-weather-resistant-design-part-hda100-p-8160.html

Check around the net for the best price...Motorola and Nexxtech also make these...All are top shelf quality low noise reliable pre amps that will do what you need for a reasonable price...There are also some that will have multiple outputs already built-in tho they will be higher priced...

Thanks agin for all the help

To the best of my knowledge the hauppauge HVR tuners will do a combination of OTA/Cable and have 2 75ohm inputs.

To the best of my knowledge the hauppauge HVR tuners will do a combination of OTA/Cable and have 2 75ohm inputs.

One of those inputs is for FM radio. At least on my 2250 thats the story. The cable in input does have 2 tuners though.

Picture here: http://www.hauppauge.com/pics/wintv-hvr-2250_new_rev_diagram_small.jpg

PSIP will be back from them(It's required by FCC for full service stations), but Time will tell I suppose whether or not CET-World OTA is a "mistake", or whether or not CET-World goes back into the null packet stream for OTA (but not for the feed via fiber to TWC) ....

At of 5:40 PM on Monday, their PSIP is back and CET-World has disappeared from their OTA broadcast. Oh well...

Actually it was gone early this morning...;)

Actually it was gone early this morning...;)

...or is it? According to this CET Tech Info blog entry (http://cet-techinfo.blogspot.com/2009/09/problems-getting-cet.html): "Please rescan and you will pick us up on 34-1, 34-2, and 34-3. The 34-3 is the World channel." (Why did they mention the physical channel numbers? That'll confuse people!)

Nitewatchman, does the TSReader data look any different now than it did before the outage?

- Trip

...or is it? According to this CET Tech Info blog entry (http://cet-techinfo.blogspot.com/2009/09/problems-getting-cet.html): "Please rescan and you will pick us up on 34-1, 34-2, and 34-3. The 34-3 is the World channel." (Why did they mention the physical channel numbers? That'll confuse people!)

Weird cause I rescaned 3 times today already...Will try it again...

Weird cause I rescaned 3 times today already...Will try it again...

Don't feel bad. I can't either.

No go...Re-maps to 48-1 & 48-2...Thats it...

No go...Re-maps to 48-1 & 48-2...Thats it...

I bet it was a typo. I believe that they would have to buy a new encoder in order to add another SD subchannel while keeping their HD subchannel looking good. CET World's reappearance OTA was an accidental byproduct of a power outage this weekend that caused their PSIP equipment to go haywire.

If i use a pre amp should i mount it remote close to the antenna or can it be closer to the splitter. From the antenna and the splitter is about a 60ft run

I'm getting the same ol' 48.1 and 48.2; CET World on 34.5, and a null on 34.6 and 34.7 on my LCD.

They had said on their Web Site a while ago that they were bringing back "WORLD" as a 3rd channel.

I'm getting the same ol' 48.1 and 48.2; CET World on 34.5, and a null on 34.6 and 34.7 on my LCD.

Interesting...When I manually input 34-5 it gets remapped to 48-1...

I recall hearing about 'World' being placed but haven't heard anything in awhile...

If i use a pre amp should i mount it remote close to the antenna or can it be closer to the splitter. From the antenna and the splitter is about a 60ft run

I have my pre-amp mounted indoors before the splitter/conditioner (APC H15) and is about 30+ feet from the antenna and the UVSJ that is mast mounted...My pre-amp is the same as I linked to for you but made by Nexxtech...They are identical in every other way but the brand name...

CET World is currently showing up in the WCET stream. See attached TSReader HTML report for details, and the image below for those less interested in the details. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=152650&stc=1&d=1253016516

If i use a pre amp should i mount it remote close to the antenna or can it be closer to the splitter. From the antenna and the splitter is about a 60ft run

I have my pre-amp mounted indoors before the splitter/conditioner (APC H15) and is about 30+ feet from the antenna and the UVSJ that is mast mounted...My pre-amp is the same as I linked to for you but made by Nexxtech...They are identical in every other way but the brand name...
Usually the power supply for the pre-amp is located indoors and the power runs through the coax to the pre-amp mounted near the antenna (just in case he was worried about how to get power up there).

Usually the power supply for the pre-amp is located indoors and the power runs through the coax to the pre-amp mounted near the antenna (just in case he was worried about how to get power up there).

Depends on the type of Preamp being used...The type I recommended would require a 2nd coax line to be run outside and it really isn't a mast mount pre-amp...This is why I suggested inside and why I myself have it inside...There is zero difference in effectiveness of the pre-amp...

Well I still cannot get 'World'...Everything remaps to 48-1 and when I try 48-3 48-4 48-5 etc I get 'No Signal'...

I bet it was a typo. I believe that they would have to buy a new encoder in order to add another SD subchannel while keeping their HD subchannel looking good. CET World's reappearance OTA was an accidental byproduct of a power outage this weekend that caused their PSIP equipment to go haywire.


Correct about the power outage and World. They were on 34 for a day because the virtual channel mapping was hosed because a transport stream card was cooked, along with PSIP+. All will be well (including the program guide) in a day or two.

I think there is a new encoder on the dock.

Usually the power supply for the pre-amp is located indoors and the power runs through the coax to the pre-amp mounted near the antenna (just in case he was worried about how to get power up there).

Ok i think i understand what i need to do. I have the items on order from Solid Signal and hoping to start the install this weekend.

I am coming to this party late, i used my two coupons for converters about a year ago for my mom and my mother in law (they lost theirs). Trying to buy some converters now for myself and i have been to 3 Wal-Mart’s and they told me they no longer carry them.

I own one LCD HDTV with a built in tuner but I need about 4 converters for other TV’s in the house.

Ok i think i understand what i need to do. I have the items on order from Solid Signal and hoping to start the install this weekend.

I am coming to this party late, i used my two coupons for converters about a year ago for my mom and my mother in law (they lost theirs). Trying to buy some converters now for myself and i have been to 3 Wal-Mart’s and they told me they no longer carry them.

I own one LCD HDTV with a built in tuner but I need about 4 converters for other TV’s in the house.

PM me with your phone # and I'll give you a call.

LOTS of converters on Craigs list and eBay...I haven't been to my Wal-Mart in a couple 2-3 weeks but they had a large supply of the Magnavox converters still so I would think you could get them sent to your Wal-Mart...I don't know if they will do this or not...Regardless we will get you going...;)

Trying to buy some converters now for myself and i have been to 3 Wal-Mart’s and they told me they no longer carry them.I'd highly suggest the Zenith box. Used to be available at HH Gregg... I assume it still is but haven't looked in some time.

Correct about the power outage and World. They were on 34 for a day because the virtual channel mapping was hosed because a transport stream card was cooked, along with PSIP+. All will be well (including the program guide) in a day or two.

I think there is a new encoder on the dock.OK... Appreciate the inside info, but as of right now CET World is still in the transport stream and the video is decoding in TSReader, same as I posted above.

And, not to be a broken record, but if you've read my previous posts (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16377901#post16377901) regarding this in this thread, what CET are doing makes no sense. To save you the trouble of searching, here is what I posted previously:

I asked them about this a while back and got an answer that didn't really make any sense. They say that in order to have two different streams (one for Time Warner and one for OTA), they send it through the encoder twice. The first is for Time Warner which includes World and Create, and the second time it goes through again and they strip out World in order to make room for the extra things required for OTA broadcast (digital EAS, Ohio EAS, Update Logic, PMT, PAT, EIT, STT, and ETT).

So, what they end up with is wasted bandwidth on the OTA broadcast in order to give an extra channel to Time Warner.

I'd highly suggest the Zenith box. Used to be available at HH Gregg... I assume it still is but haven't looked in some time.


Bingo, i just called and HH Gregg has some, not sure why but i never think about them. thanks.

John Kiesewetter reports that WKRC may make the switch to HD news next week (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2009/09/15/channel-12-going-hdtv-soon/).

As Jimp2244's TSreader HTML export indicates(which reflects the current situation, and the situation I believe since sometime Mon afternoon), although the PMT and Elementary video/Audio streams are present for "CET World" (and using about 2.5Mb/s of bandwidth), there is currently no info in TVCT for CET World, therefore it's probably likely many receivers won't find it, especially perhaps given the TVCT info which IS present currently for CET-HD(48.1) and Create(48.2) --- Here, I can only currently decode "World" via some PC software as well as Sony KD34XBR960 (tuning it manually to 34.5) --- None of my other receivers, currently will locate it or display "world" ......

Update/Note: Also - of course, some receivers will use the Program numbers when there is no PSIP -- which in this case would equate to 34.5 for World, 34.4 for Create, 34.3 for CET HD -- some others, OTOH, may have displayed the #'s on Sunday w/o any PSIP which the CET info noted (34.1~34.3) ....

Oh -- There are also currently no EITs present in their stream (Therefore no EPG info) ...

Attached farther below is TSreader HTML export indicating a bit different configuration (No PSIP, but no Streams for world, either) they were running for a time Monday just before noon .....

I do think it interesting that the situation On Sunday (No PSIP but the world streams present in their TS via OTA) seems mostly consistant with the info from them as explained in Jimp2244's post if we were getting, OTA during that period, the Mux/TS which Only TW normally gets via Fiber (Exception perhaps being the "update TV streams" which were present, sunday -- If they don't send those to TW)..... Don't know about now, however, I know in the past they also had PBS Kids+I think in some areas on cable "the Ohio channel"(which ThinkTV has OTA), assume CET had to get those to TW headend(s) as well, apparently in some other way than CET-HD, Create+World ....


-------------------------------------------------------------------

From A Buick 8,

Keep in mind, An issue of potential concern in your case regarding the use of additional amplification is that strong signals can overload the amp or front end of receiver and cause issues, so if you run into some problems, be careful when diagnosing any problem issues that may arise .... Testing things without a additional amp in line(and/or adding a fair amount of attenuation before the amp) is often of benefit in such cases ....

Also, while many amps include FM traps (often switchable), many don't, and the use of a FM trap is probably a good idea in your situation .....

Edit - removed this paragraph(Later noticed the issue of DTV converter boxes/etc was already addressed )

when wkrc goes hd - it will be all hd, field cams and everything else.. no more sd for them :)

And, not to be a broken record, but if you've read my previous posts (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16377901#post16377901) regarding this in this thread, what CET are doing makes no sense.

Perhaps equipment limitiations are(Were?) involved, but, nevertheless It didn't make sense to me, either .... Especially, perhaps, given Fiber isn't limited to a payload of 19.383 Mb/s, as is the case with OTA DTV via 8VSB ......

The main part of it that didn't make sense to me is that the null packet stream OTA was allways at least a bit over 2Mb/s whenever I checked it, or a little more, even when the DEAS and the Reading service for Blind was active .... Note: I should probably clarify --- That's what I was reffering to earlier concerning my somewhat inaccurate, deliberately "condensed" comment about the Null packet stream ...

And yet, Either "create" or "world" is using something a little less than 2.5 Mb/s (with audio) ..... In other words -- It seems CET World would have almost fit OTA as it was with perhaps a slight reduction in bitrate for either the SD video services, or the Max bitrate for CET-HD ... In fact, it seems the current situation(although w/o EITs or DEAS stream currently) indicates that is the case ....

PSIP, DEAS, UpdateTV streams/etc don't use much bandwidth ....

Also, at one time, for a long period(A year or so as I recall), they actually ran 1 HD+2 SD in the evenings(OTA), and 4 SD during the day ..... I can't say HD PQ seems to be any better NOW than it was then .....

While More bits for the HD/Flexicoder seems like a good idea, I'm not sure it would have mattered much --- A Pig is a Pig .....

And, to be clear ---- Not that I'm advocating that .... I've noticed CET-HD with the Flexicoder has had significant blocking issues during bandwidth demanding portions of content since Early 2003 (When they began Multicasting). Suspect it could defintely beneifit from either a higher Max bitrate for the HD video (smaller Null packet stream, or even better, no multicasting) .... And/or, improvements such as more efficent encoder(The one at the dock, presumably), and perhaps including use of TFF/RFF flags during Telecined 23.976fps ("24p") content ....

when wkrc goes hd - it will be all hd, field cams and everything else.. no more sd for them :)

Hallelujah. It's about time.

Wonder what they will do with the news on the CW (the continuation of the morning show after 7 am when WKRC goes to national, and also the 10 pm broadcast)? I suppose they'll just be shooting in HD, then sending it out in SD? I wonder if we'll get window bars and 16:9 shrunken, or if we'll just get the "chopped off" 16:9 full screen....

P.S. I haven't read the blog lately - any word about a permanent replacement for Anna in the morning? Will Liz stay, or is she a temporary fill-in until they find someone new? Hopefully John L, Bob H, and John G are staying on the morning show....

Really glad to see WKRC going HD. In all honesty it's way overdue. I don't know how you can build an HD set in November and not get around to HD till September.

Now the key is does WLWT have plans to go HD?

Wonder what they will do with the news on the CW (the continuation of the morning show after 7 am when WKRC goes to national, and also the 10 pm broadcast)? I suppose they'll just be shooting in HD, then sending it out in SD? I wonder if we'll get window bars and 16:9 shrunken, or if we'll just get the "chopped off" 16:9 full screen....
Can't see them doing anything other than a 4:3 center cut.

While More bits for the HD/Flexicoder seems like a good idea, I'm not sure it would have mattered much --- A Pig is a Pig ..... Indeed.

And, to be clear ---- Not that I'm advocating that .... I've noticed CET-HD with the Flexicoder has had significant blocking issues during bandwidth demanding portions of content since Early 2003 (When they began Multicasting). Suspect it could defintely beneifit from either a higher Max bitrate for the HD video (smaller Null packet stream, or even better, no multicasting) .... And/or, improvements such as more efficent encoder(The one at the dock, presumably), and perhaps including use of TFF/RFF flags during Telecined 23.976fps ("24p") content ....Now that WCET and ThinkTV are one and the same, and the fact that both broadcasts now originate in the same area (WLWT's tower for WCET, and (I believe) WXIX's tower for WPTO versus WPTO broadcasting from Oxford on analog), it would make sense to me to do a bit of effort combining. Perhaps WCET could go with the ideal scenario of one HD channel, and WPTO could multicast the SD channels (dropping the terrible looking "HD" channel they have in the evenings now).

They could keep the branding separate, so that if you're looking for variety or "something to watch" you can tune to ThinkTV, and if you're looking for the "good stuff" or first-run prime time tune to CET.

Another "cool" option would be to leverage PSIP data to make 48-1 come from WCET, carrying only on HD stream, and 48-2 through 48-6 or so come from WPTO, and combine branding.

When I think of PBS I usually think of "good, quality stuff," but the macroblocking mess that we get from WCET and WPTD is a bit frustrating. Don't get me wrong I still watch a lot of programming (NOVA, Frontline, This Old House, Soundstage, etc.) but on a 56" screen many times I feel like I'm watching YouTube. There is no comparison between the HD we get from WLWT at 17Mbps and what we get from CET at 11.5Mbps (and less from ThinkTV).

Did anyone happen to see on Saturday, whether WLWT's delayed NBC Nightly News (now being broadcast at 7pm on Saturdays following the new one-hour News 5 at 6 on Saturdays) was in HD? I'm assuming they record Nightly News as I doubt NBC sends it over the satellites again.

We will get a total of 7 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 6 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Green Bay
Ian Eagle, Rich Gannon

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) New Orleans at Philadelphia Minnesota at Detroit *
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman Ron Pitts, John Lynch

4pm FOX (19 WXIX) Tampa Bay at Buffalo
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm CBS (12 WKRC) Pittsburgh at Chicago
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

4pm CBS (7 WHIO) Cleveland at Denver*
Bill Macatee, Steve Beuerlein

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – NY Giants at Dallas
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8pm ESPN – Indianapolis at Miami+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:
9/17 - Dayton 1pm FOX game updated

Great week for bonus OTA games!

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

As promised earlier in the thread here is my ghetto antenna for the Dayton OTA stations. (attached)

Question: All i want this for really is NFL football which happens to be on the 2 borderline reception stations that I have. Anyway to boost the signals from WHIODT and WRGTDT with some sort of in-line booster? Pic is attached to see the sorry setup I have.. :D

As promised earlier in the thread here is my ghetto antenna for the Dayton OTA stations. (attached)

Question: All i want this for really is NFL football which happens to be on the 2 borderline reception stations that I have. Anyway to boost the signals from WHIODT and WRGTDT with some sort of in-line booster? Pic is attached to see the sorry setup I have.. :DGet that thing outside or at least by a north-facing window. There is no way to boost a signal that's not there to begin with unfortunately.

Get that thing outside or at least by a north-facing window. There is no way to boost a signal that's not there to begin with unfortunately.

No can do. HOA rules with an iron fist otherwise it would be a makeshift lightning rod on the balcony. I do get the channels, it's just that once every 3-10 minutes the signal goes away for anywhere from a couple secs up to a minute. The tuner's signal graph shows them at about 3/9 bars. 1 bar will be zero picture, 2 bars being a glitchy mess. Oddly, sometimes 3 bars works great for hours on end, I was simply hoping I could boost it enough to keep my lazy butt on the couch instead of jumping up and making minute adjustments to the "antenna". :D

No can do. HOA rules with an iron fist otherwise it would be a makeshift lightning rod on the balcony. I do get the channels, it's just that once every 3-10 minutes the signal goes away for anywhere from a couple secs up to a minute. The tuner's signal graph shows them at about 3/9 bars. 1 bar will be zero picture, 2 bars being a glitchy mess. Oddly, sometimes 3 bars works great for hours on end, I was simply hoping I could boost it enough to keep my lazy butt on the couch instead of jumping up and making minute adjustments to the "antenna". :D

Look around for the best price you can get (hint - eBay) on one of these:

http://www.signalboosterstore.com/Products/MotorolaBDA-S1.htm

It sure won't hurt...BTW this IS for OTA antennas besides Cable TV...

Look around for the best price you can get (hint - eBay) on one of these:

http://www.signalboosterstore.com/Products/MotorolaBDA-S1.htm

It sure won't hurt...BTW this IS for OTA antennas besides Cable TV...

OK, thanks, looks like $39 is the price everywhere give or take a few cents. So am I correct in assuming that a coaxial cable comes out of the "power 12v dc" plug on the device and plugs into the wall power? That's how it looks in the manual anyhow. I could take my ghetto antenna to new heights with more cables hanging from it! ;)

Errr, what I really meant to ask is does it HAVE to have this plug into the wall outlet or is it optional?


http://sh.stonks.com/junk/motorola.jpg

You have to power it somehow and the wll plug is how I power all of mine...No additional cables come off the antenna...just the one you have now...

You have to power it somehow and the wll plug is how I power all of mine...No additional cables come off the antenna...just the one you have now...

OK, thanks, will give it a go. Even if it doesn't help I think I have some of the 12 owners here convinced that an antenna for the whole building might be a good investment. I had to prove to them that you could get that newfangled HDTV over the air. I'm thinking this booster might come in handy if this actually happens. The "additional cables comment" was me assuming the booster worked better being closer to the antenna.

No can do. HOA rules with an iron fist otherwise it would be a makeshift lightning rod on the balcony.You have a balcony? It's perfectly within your rights to put the antenna out there, and there is NOTHING the HOA can do about it. FCC rules are very clear about that. Just put it up there and if they give you any grief tell them their HOA rules are not legal. Refer them to http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html and you can also let them know that if they continue to give you grief, you'll file a complaint with the FCC. HOAs are not allowed to have rules prohibiting the installation of OTA antennas that adhere to the guidelines in the link above, but many do because they hope people won't know that those are illegal regulations.

I live in a townhome and my HOA prohibits antennas, yet I have one on the roof after pointing out that their regulations were illegal.

It sure won't hurt...It could very well hurt! :) The short cable run he's got from that antenna to his tuner won't attenuate the signal that much, and all the amp can do is either overload the tuner or add additional noise. Maybe it will help, but I think he is best off finding a better position for that antenna (outside on the balcony!).

Edit: Just in case you meant "it can't hurt to try," then I'll agree with that. :)

NFL Week 2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17189077#post17189077) updated (Dayton 1pm FOX game)

It could very well hurt! :) The short cable run he's got from that antenna to his tuner won't attenuate the signal that much, and all the amp can do is either overload the tuner or add additional noise. Maybe it will help, but I think he is best off finding a better position for that antenna (outside on the balcony!).

Edit: Just in case you meant "it can't hurt to try," then I'll agree with that. :)

No...I meant that it couldn't hurt in comparison to what he has now indoors...Granted if he has it outdoors on the balcony that would be ideal and may eliminate the need for an amp...However while he can place an antenna outside at the expense of ruffling alot of feathers he still needs permission to drill a hole thru the exterior wall to get the cable from outside to the inside...So I think the amp will help as it won't hurt the crappy reception he already enjoys... ;)

BTW...Thanks for the football schedule(s) and update(s)...I for one really appreciate them ALOT... :)

Drilling hole through the wall... I was about to reply but splicer beat me to it. That's EXACTLY the issue now.

Drilling hole through the wall... I was about to reply but splicer beat me to it. That's EXACTLY the issue now.Run flat twin-lead with a twist every 1 ft, and put your balun (changes twin lead to coax) inside. The flat twin-lead will let you close a window or door on it no problem. Just a suggestion. :)

Does anyone there have satellite? What about cable-TV? How is that brought in?

No satellites, cable was wired when the place was built in '83. The flat wire occurred to me but seems like such a pain. I may give it a go if the community roof antenna falls through.

The twin flat lead is of course a possible work around but take it from me this would be an absolute last resort as it really isn't practical to do with twin flat lead...However there is indeed a work around for the work around and that is using one of these:

http://www.summitsource.com/flat-coaxial-rg6-cable-windowdoor-satellite-hdtv-3-ghz-high-frequency-white-flexible-coax-rg6-8-f-to-f-jumper-eagle-aspen-digital-rv-camper-portable-satellite-dish-tv-antenna-coax-cable-adapter-part-8fc300lx8-p-6984.html

How well they work I have no idea since I myself have no experience with them but I do know it would be better than twin flat lead hands down...Certainly worth a try and less expensive than the amp...:)

WCPO has filed a channel change request, but we won't know what channel until morning.

- Trip

WCPO has filed a channel change request, but we won't know what channel until morning.

- Trip

:eek: No kidding...I have to wonder why???

Yeah, it's listed in the CDBS, but unfortunately the CDBS doesn't handle the channel change stuff very well. That's why I made the "DR List" page under Odds and Ends on RabbitEars.

Because of this, I have no way of knowing which channel they want until my website update runs at 6AM.

Anyone taking bets? I don't gamble, but I'll guess and say channel 18.

- Trip

WCPO has filed a channel change request, but we won't know what channel until morning.


This Cincinnati forum is fairly active and has a good share of technical people participating, so WCPO's new request triggers this query.

What went so wrong...and why?

It's a mess nationwide and on an almost daily basis Trip chronicles the mishaps on the ``VHF Nightmares'' page.

Specifically, why did the VHF reception problems take all of the smart people by surprise on 12 JUN 2009? Were the tests performed in Wilmington, NC (all of which were on UHF) the sole ``lab'' to predict what was to come? Surely the engineering studies were aware of impulse noise and the other problems associated with that band. Right?

And why are there engineers (no names here -- but we know who they are) who have dug in their heels and still defend VHF as suited -- and even ideal -- for ATSC transmission?

At least for me...VHF is not any more of an issue with the channels here on VHF than the channels utilizing UHF...on my system...

Yeah, it's listed in the CDBS, but unfortunately the CDBS doesn't handle the channel change stuff very well. That's why I made the "DR List" page under Odds and Ends on RabbitEars.

Because of this, I have no way of knowing which channel they want until my website update runs at 6AM.

Anyone taking bets? I don't gamble, but I'll guess and say channel 18.

- Trip

Hmmm...1000' @ 1000 kW on UHF Digital Channel 22 - This move - if/when approved should put WCPO on par technically with WLWT and end any issues of reception in the metro. Goodbye VHF except for "Local 12".

Yep, channel 22 at 1000 kW ND. The one I didn't pick. :p

Still leaves channel 18 open for WKRC if they decide to move back to UHF as well...

- Trip

At least for me...VHF is not any more of an issue with the channels here on VHF than the channels utilizing UHF...on my system...
Since everyone seems to think that VHF is so bad (even though those of us with proper antenna setups don't have any issues), with this filing it might not be surprising if WKRC either follows suit, or files a comment stating that a WCPO move to UHF 22 would hurt them (causing them to be the odd man out so to speak) and request that the application not be granted.

If the trend of full power stations all moving to UHF continues, perhaps the VHF band will be a convenient place to locate low power stations. With less electricity required to run VHF broadcast, that would help out the lower budget stations anyway.

I would love it if they all moved to UHF and I only needed one antenna.

Well -IF- WKRC follows and goes to UHF at least I am not out much money wise as I bought an antenna Trip (BTW...Thats my dogs name ;)...) recommended so it wouldn't be a huge loss...I could remove the VHF antenna and raise my 2 UHF antennas higher even though I don't need to as my reception is great as is...

According to John Kiesewetter, WKRC HD News has been delayed a week (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2009/09/18/no-hdtv-on-channel-12-monday/). Oh well... patience, my friends!

Hmmm...1000' @ 1000 kW on UHF Digital Channel 22 - This move - if/when approved should put WCPO on par technically with WLWT and end any issues of reception in the metro. Goodbye VHF except for "Local 12".

Wouldn't the Low Power Ch22 in Dayton be displaced if the FCC approves WCPOs CP for 1000kw? I would think the given that increase in signal their would be an interference issue with them already being on Ch22 in Dayton.

Yes, W66AQ on 22 would be displaced.

- Trip

WOTH can't seem to figure out how to stick with the CFL games when they run past three hours. At least five times this season, they've switched to the regularly scheduled program at exactly the three hour mark, and only twice have they fixed it. Last week, they only switched back because I called them. I sent their program director an e-mail explaining the problem and got no response. It happened again this week. These guys don't seem to have a clue what they're doing, or they just don't care. No wonder Time-Warner doesn't want to carry them. :mad:

Still leaves channel 18 open for WKRC if they decide to move back to UHF as well...

It seems that the vast majority of complaints have been for WCPO as compared to WKRC or any of the other local stations.

Anyone who really cares about the CFL is in the minority of viewers I would wager...I would also wager advertising revenue is more abundant for the regularly scheduled programing than the CFL...

As much as I hate to say it there is a guy that posts here complaining that the college games get switched before they are over and he has a much more valid argument than you do...I am not saying that what you watch doesn't or shouldn't matter to you but overall it just doesn't draw the viewership to justify cutting into normal programs that do have a higher viewership...

It seems that the vast majority of complaints have been for WCPO as compared to WKRC or any of the other local stations.

I haven't even heard of any complaints for any of the stations lately...Even the Dayton CW doesn't get reception complaints here anymore...

I am not saying that what you watch doesn't or shouldn't matter to you but overall it just doesn't draw the viewership to justify cutting into normal programs that do have a higher viewership...

My point is they're not supposed to be switching at all. They're only switching because the operator on duty is asleep at the switch. I've called twice to complain after a switch, and each time the operator said he would switch it back and he did. This indicates to me that the switch was not supposed to happen.

Were the tests performed in Wilmington, NC (all of which were on UHF) the sole ``lab'' to predict what was to come?


There were a number of DTV field tests (with published results, probably many more which were not published, including perhaps more recent tests) performed between about 1996 and 2003, including involving VHF stations and 1'000's of measurements...

Note WCPO began Digital operation on VHF channel 10 in the Fall of 1998 .....

Both VHF and UHF have advantages and disadvantages, regardless of what system of transmission (signal modulation/etc) is used .....

RF is RF, analog or DTV ... However --- For users, One thing that is different is that what might be at least somewhat tolerable and appear as "static" or "interference" with analog can result in SNR dropping below threshold for decoding DTV ..... Thus why issues such as say, a nearby lightning strike can result in quite a disruption for DTV viewers involving even a relatively strong signal from a VHF station, (but also such disruption can occur in such a case involving relatively weak signals from UHF stations) in a much less tolerable way than would have been the case with analog ... UHF has an advantage in this situation of course, because the lower the frequency, the stronger the RF interference from the source of the impulse noise (in this example, from a nearby lightning strike....)

We could(and have at various times on this forum) discuss the advantages and disadvantages of VHF and UHF until the Cows come home -- But, Something that is a "new" dis-advantage for VHF for DTV is that it doesn't seem likely some or many of the future devices(such as cell phones) which may support Mobile DTV via ATSC M/H standard will include receive antennas capable of working very well on VHF frequencies .... Note that Scripps (owns WCPO) is a member of OMVC (Open Mobile Video Coalition), an organization which is a big supporter of Mobile DTV via M/H ...

http://www.omvc.org/about-omvc/members/

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cleveland at Baltimore
Gus Johnson, Steve Tasker

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Atlanta at New England
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Pittsburgh at Cincinnati
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms


Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Indianapolis at Arizona
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Carolina at Dallas+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:
All AFC North teams on TV here this week.

Pittsburgh at Cincinnati gets CBS's "A-team." What this really means is we get to hear Phil Simms say "Bingles" a lot. :)

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Pittsburgh at Cincinnati gets CBS's "A-team." What this really means is we get to hear Phil Simms say "Bingles" a lot.

Maybe it's because of where I grew up (near Portsmouth, OH), but I don't distinguish between "Bengals" and "Bingles" and am apparently incapable of noticing the difference when somebody else speaks. This became apparent in a recent discussion with coworkers about the words "imminent" and "eminent". To me, they are homophones, as are "ten" and "tin", "pen" and "pin", etc.

Maybe it's because of where I grew up (near Portsmouth, OH), but I don't distinguish between "Bengals" and "Bingles" and am apparently incapable of noticing the difference when somebody else speaks. This became apparent in a recent discussion with coworkers about the words "imminent" and "eminent". To me, they are homophones, as are "ten" and "tin", "pen" and "pin", etc.Haha... How about pole, pull, and pool? :)

Has WHIO 7 done anything to thier signa or tower lately? For the past 2 days here in Delhi I have been reciving them. I usally ony get them late at night most of the time on my Indoor Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034) antenna. The signal quallity is between 35-45 on my tv with only a indoor antenna. I find it stange that i cant get WDTN 2 when I get WHIO 7 when their towers are bassically in the same place.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2009/09/24/daily.5/

Anyone know what the story is here? As far as I can tell, the FCC has not granted them any kind of permission to operate an omni directional antenna.

- Trip

Has WHIO 7 done anything to thier signa or tower lately? For the past 2 days here in Delhi I have been reciving them. I usally ony get them late at night most of the time on my Indoor Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034) antenna. The signal quallity is between 35-45 on my tv with only a indoor antenna. I find it stange that i cant get WDTN 2 when I get WHIO 7 when their towers are bassically in the same place.

I would reasonably presume that it is a tropo type issue with the cloud cover more or less 'reflecting' the signal.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2009/09/24/daily.5/

Anyone know what the story is here? As far as I can tell, the FCC has not granted them any kind of permission to operate an omni directional antenna.

- Trip

According to cynic there is something in the FCC database for the power increase so I would imagine the antenna change is included. Regardless they must have gotten permission, they made the changes after all. And even if they didn't have permission, it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission anyway. ;)

All that being said 64 has been one of the easiest stations I can pick up and have had a great signal with NEVER an issue since I went OTA.

They requested a change of antenna, but it has not been granted so far as I can tell.

- Trip

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2009/09/24/daily.5/

Anyone know what the story is here? As far as I can tell, the FCC has not granted them any kind of permission to operate an omni directional antenna.

- Trip

So that's why I can get a strong signal from them now. Previously I could not get them at all in Grant County KY.

They requested a change of antenna, but it has not been granted so far as I can tell.

- TripNot sure what's going on with their license, but their web site is touting their "power surge" in a video in the right column:

http://www.star64.tv/

They requested a change of antenna, but it has not been granted so far as I can tell.

- Trip

Like you I am only repeating what I have read. Are you sure you aaren't overlooking anything or that the website has not been updated yet? Because I doubt CH64 would knowingly do something in violation of the FCC regulations.;)

The FCC database is updated daily. As of last night at 4AM, their omni directional application remained only an application.

- Trip

All that being said 64 has been one of the easiest stations I can pick up and have had a great signal with NEVER an issue since I went OTA.

Living just north of I-70 in Dayton, I have always gotten WSTR easily here. I just checked my TV which has signal level and signal quality indicators for Ch 33 and it seems about the same, 67 percent level, 100 percent quality and the antenna picks it up over 95 percent of the sweep 180 degrees from 0 to 180 drgrees.

I'm now getting WSTR-64 rock solid with an indoor antenna at Eastgate. Previously, it was as about as difficult as WKEF-22, WBDT-26, and WRGT-45 -- I could get them, but I really had to work for it. BTW, WHIO-7 seems a bit more difficult for me recently. They used to be easy. WDTN-2 is still pretty easy for me.

The FCC database is updated daily. As of last night at 4AM, their omni directional application remained only an application.

Here's the application list for WSTR: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WSTR

I'm guessing that all they did was boost power on their current digital antenna (that's at 302.8 m HAAT) from 675 kW ERP to 900 kW ERP. That's the one they've been using before analog shutoff. The new omnidirectional, CP antenna is at 337 m HHAT and 360 kW ERP. (Since it's higher, I would assume that they installed this new antenna to take the place of the now obsolete RF channel 64 antenna.) It would be strange to me to install the new one before getting the FCC's permission, but if they did, they can't use it until the FCC approves their application.

The article claims they're now operating the omni. How, I don't know.

- Trip

What's up with WKRC? More than just one night during their 11 o'clock news the picture cut in and out. It goes to a completely black screen. Usually happens around commercial time. Last night during the weather it went out again but this time the pic expanded to HD and went completely green, I gave up and switched to WCPO for the balance of the news. It appeared to not be a problem during the network shows.

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cleveland at Baltimore
Gus Johnson, Steve Tasker

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Atlanta at New England
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Pittsburgh at Cincinnati
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms


Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Indianapolis at Arizona
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Carolina at Dallas+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:
All AFC North teams on TV here this week.

Pittsburgh at Cincinnati gets CBS's "A-team." What this really means is we get to hear Phil Simms say "Bingles" a lot. :)

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Just for your information, starting this season NFL required that all game telecasts be broadcast in HDTV.

fafner

What's up with WKRC? More than just one night during their 11 o'clock news the picture cut in and out. It goes to a completely black screen. Usually happens around commercial time. Last night during the weather it went out again but this time the pic expanded to HD and went completely green, I gave up and switched to WCPO for the balance of the news. It appeared to not be a problem during the network shows.
I'll bet they're doing some kind of testing of their HD equipment. Their news should be in HD beginning next week.

On TWC QAM channels I'm no longer getting all of the Ch 16's or Ch 64-1. I haven't rescanned yet. Anyone else with this problem?

I'll bet they're doing some kind of testing of their HD equipment. Their news should be in HD beginning next week.

It's on again (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2009/09/25/channel-12-news-goes-hdtv-sunday/) for the 11:00 PM news this Sunday.

Just for your information, starting this season NFL required that all game telecasts be broadcast in HDTV.

fafnerThis started last season.



Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

What's up with WKRC?

Last night, the green came from our automation deciding to switch to an empty spigot in the middle of weather.

Earlier we have had some problems with our new news server feeding black-with-audio when rolled. The status with the server manufacturer has now changed from "that-can't-happen" to "we-think-we-have-it-fixed".

This is more fun than you might think is possible.

As of 8PM I noticed I now have 48-3. :cool:

This is more fun than you might think is possible.

It looks like you guys will have even more fun Sunday at 11:00 PM. Good luck! :D

As of 8PM I noticed I now have 48-3. :cool:

Yeah, "CETWorl". It looks really bit starved though. The sound is crackling too. I'm assuming that's part of the stream being bit starved. I don't remember if they have the program guide information fixed since their PSIP problem a week ago or so. Maybe it's just a glitch and OTA viewers still aren't supposed to see 48-3...

Yeah, "CETWorl". It looks really bit starved though. The sound is crackling too. I'm assuming that's part of the stream being bit starved. I don't remember if they have the program guide information fixed since their PSIP problem a week ago or so. Maybe it's just a glitch and OTA viewers still aren't supposed to see 48-3...Seeing it here on the Samsung DLP now instead of only when analyzing with TSReader. I analyzed today again and based on what I'm seeing I would not be surprised if they had installed the new encoder? At the very least they have made some definite changes.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=153637&stc=1&d=1253979779
(first three streams are, in order, CET-HD, CrEaTe, and CETWorl)

Of most important note is the NULL packet stream (0x1fff) which used to be close to 2Mbps and currently is running under 1Mbps. 13Mbps is still way too low for 1080i HD, but right now this is at least an improvement. I am hoping they continue to improve or at least don't go back to the previous configuration.

PSIP is also currently working, and program information is showing up.

I have attached the TSReader output, and a screen shot for those who'd rather not scroll through all of the output.

Paula Toti came to us in HD for a "Local 12 Update" during the Bengals game. Looks like they also have HD radar and weather graphics, so it's a complete job. New logo is white and red. This was most likely their "test run". They also aired an HD promo with Rob and Kit.

PQ is OK, but VERY VERY soft and quite a bit of macroblocking as is the norm from WKRC. The Rob and Kit promo was even MORE soft.

Nice to see the HD finally and looking forward to hopeful improvements as they fine-tune.

It looks like their web site has switched to the new logo and color scheme too.

http://www.local12.com/

That's interesting... they just inserted the "new" Local 12 (red/white) logo and the sound changed, becoming quite muffled. As soon as the logo left the screen, the sound returned to normal. The audio has been going in and out like this throughout the CBS NFL coverage today.

Also their HD "ID bugs" have gotten quite large... the one with the orange "12" would take up about 1/4 of an SD TV screen! Noticed that WLWT has switched to a nice, smaller and crisp looking bug recently.

If you are DVR'ing the game and behind:Yeah Jonathan Joseph INT for TD!!! ...ugh Brad St. Louis spoils another long snap. :mad:

I switched from Whio to Wkrc at the start of the Bengals game because HIO's PQ was soft and slightly green. KRC was sharp and had pop (2nd time this has happened with WHIO).

Anyway I noticed three or four green glitches that lasted a few seconds each during the game. I assume those are the ones talked about by XmtrMan.

I saw the HD news at halftime. I wasn't watching critically, but it certainly looked better than upconverted SD to me.

I saw the HD news at halftime. I wasn't watching critically, but it certainly looked better than upconverted SD to me.Oh it was HD for sure, just extremely soft. They may be purposefully using a filter to help keep from showing the "imperfections" of their anchors, but this seemed way beyond normal.

What time does the 11:00 news come on tonight since the game went waaaay past the scheduled ending time?

What time does the 11:00 news come on tonight since the game went waaaay past the scheduled ending time?Now :)

Looks pretty good. They are obviously using a soft-filter to obscure the "details" of their on-air personalities, but it's not as soft as the halftime promo was. Going to bed soon but I'd say so far good job WKRC.

Looks better than WXIX in my opinion...

They dropped back into SD after the first break, then bumped it back to HD a minute or so later.

Other than that, it looks great so far. :D

P.S. The first clip shown on the HD newscast was the Bengals win.

I'm watching it and yeah there was the SD boo boo after the first break which the corrected after a couple of stories. I do think it's softer looking than either XIX or CPO, still no 5.1 DD.

I'm watching it and yeah there was the SD boo boo after the first break which the corrected after a couple of stories.

Remember that both WCPO and WXIX had bugs in the first few weeks. WKRC is doing quite well so far.

(What's up with the Bengals highlights? It looks like 480i widescreen.)

(What's up with the Bengals highlights? It looks like 480i widescreen.)

Absolutely.

Remember that both WCPO and WXIX had bugs in the first few weeks. WKRC is doing quite well so far.

(What's up with the Bengals highlights? It looks like 480i widescreen.)

I missed out on CPO's HD debut but I did catch XIX's and they had some major lighting issues on the set, along with the graphics.

Advantage is that KRC is debuting HD field reporting. I have to admit being very disappointed that the CBS football highlights are in SD quality.

Absolutely.

Well... those look like they're from the CBS network feed. The ones they're showing on Bengals Backstage now, from presumably local Local 12 cameras, look gorgeous (except for when the Steelers were scoring ;) ).

Overall, WKRC gets an A- from me. The only major problem was the SD switch glitch. It was well worth the wait. Excellent job!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=153794&d=1254110297

Advantage is that KRC is debuting HD field reporting.

The live shot and story from the Markland Locks was in SD though. However, it looks like all of the rest of the canned stories were HD.

I have to admit being very disappointed that the CBS football highlights are in SD quality.

Remember that in jimp2244's weekly NFL update that some of the NFL highlight feeds on the CBS network were going to be in SD. Or perhaps they can't save off from the network feed yet.

What's up with the Bengals Backstage interview camera? It looks like 480i, 4:3 cropped at the top and bottom to fit 16:9.

Whats up with the 2.0 audio still?

Caught the last 5 minutes of the morning show this morning on WKRC before they went national (and local went to SD 12.2). Looked nice. The set looks sharp, the graphics were clean, and the news scroll at the bottom was nicely laid-out. A heckuva lot better than the old stuff.

They did not seem to have the softening on that was evident on the Bengals halftime promo. I did not see the 11 pm news last night (recorded it out of curiosity, though! ;) ) but I definitely saw the softening on the halftime promo. The small bit this morning that I saw, I don't think I even saw a wide, both-anchors together shot, I think it was the individual zoomed camera angles, and they did not appear soft.

I didn't realize that ch 12 was rolling out HD until I heard Paula Toti announce it at the beginning of the 11pm news. I was watching on my bedroom tv which is not HD. It is fed analog without a box from TWC but the picture was horrible. It was what I would call quite fuzzy, some here might call it soft. Their logos and weather maps were clear but the live studio shots were fuzzy like the picture Thora posted here. Why do you suppose that is?

Previous to this switch I felt ch 12 had the clearest non HD picture I've ever seen (on my HD set fed via TWC converter box). Other than it not being wide screen, it pretty much looked HD.

I am tuned in to the 4PM "First at Four" program. I think they're having major problems with the Harris Flexicoder, which has been a problem for years (yes, years!) and it is evident when the screen switches from camera to segment or to graphics, where the entire screen blocks out. This has been seen with NCAA basketball, NCAA football, NFL, and during quick pans in regular programming. It has never been addressed and a solution was posted on AVC several years back.

Overall, the broadcast is nice and its great to have another station in HD. It is great to have HD field shots. The graphics are really sharp too!

Pros:
-HD newcast!
-Sharp graphic package
-HD field shots
-The scroll along the bottom is nice and has good placement/size.

Cons:
-Flexicoder problem, too much macroblocking during transitions
-Cameras are a bit soft, much softer than WCPO or WXIX.
-The "LOCAL 12" graphic is too large, covers up other weather graphics! Also, maybe add "HD" somewhere, just to brag!
-The graphics in the header seem quite low, there is a large gap at the top, making the graphics look squished.

Hopefully they will address these issues, but it will take time which is understandable. WCPO and WXIX were very open to emails and comments on the board, feedback on these issues should always be taken as a positive.

WKRC, keep up the good work!

I think they're having major problems with the Harris Flexicoder, which has been a problem for years (yes, years!) and it is evident when the screen switches from camera to segment or to graphics, where the entire screen blocks out. This has been seen with NCAA basketball, NCAA football, NFL, and during quick pans in regular programming. It has never been addressed and a solution was posted on AVC several years back.Indeed.

I'm extremely tired of the focus/blur issue that has plagued WKRC for years on scene changes.

I don't know how many times we have to tell them, and if they don't believe us they could call CBS corporate and get the same instructions. Turn adaptive filtering off!

I applaud 12 for making the leap. They definitely look way better than before. With that said, they do have some issues.

Thier transition to and from break is technically sloppy. I've seen them go completely green a couple of times this week. They have always been the sloppiest in the market in regards to this.

Their studio cameras look like a$$. They've done something to the fleshtones, perhaps to hide wrinkles and age marks. It's not the detail that's been adjusted. Weather looks terrible. Nice crisp graphics with a soft mushy met. It's kind of startling!

No 5.1 surround? Huh?

Live shots are still 4 x 3. Did they cheap out on their live trucks.

Still happy they made the jump. Hope they keep moving forward.

I think with the soft focus they're using I can't see any more detail than from before they went HD.

I think 12 should be commended for the jump to HD, especially since we've not even heard a peep of a rumor about Channel 5. I'm also glad that they have HD graphics and HD field reports ready to go.

However i'm still baffled by what seems their inability to capture HD feeds from outside satellite sources or their inability to go 5.1 Dolby Digital (while everyone else is there). What I find the biggest annoyance so far is the soft detail in the studio. I swear their field reports have more clarity than their studio segments. This morning I also witnessed a SD coming back in from a commerical break. I'm sure later it stretched back out to HD.

For them starting the HD process almost a year ago, I was expecting a bit better debut.

My only issue with WHRC HD is the DD 5.1 or rather, lack thereof.

Call it soft, I call it blurry. What's the point in going HD if your going to blur up the picture? Seems counter productive to me. I haven't seen others who have gone HD do it this way. As I said earlier they had an excellent 480i picture before. I prefer that over what we're getting now

After having the chance to watch a bit more I think the picture quality of WKRC's newscasts is pretty good, and sharp overall. But there is obvious use of a skin tone softening filter and that part of the picture looks "not so good." The entire picture is sharp and "great looking" other than the flesh tones, which almost look like someone smudged the lens just right there in that spot (over Rob or Kit's face for example).


Other than that and the focus/blur issue everything else I think can be attributed to "getting the hang of things."

I think flesh tones are a great way to gauge picture quality. As I calibrated my TV years ago, flesh tones were the most challenging. I knew I had it right when the flesh tones passed "my test".

If ch 12 fails the flesh tone test then they fail the overall picture test in my mind.

So my question is this. Do you think this blurry/softness issue will get better in time and if so why?

So my question is this. Do you think this blurry/softness issue will get better in time and if so why?Not sure if you were asking me or everyone but I'll answer either way...

I think there's no doubt that the flesh tone soft filter was put in place on purpose - most likely at the request (or demand) of some or all of the on-air personalities, and maybe even by the news director or a producer who was afraid that showing too much detail on certain anchors might make them look "less perfect."

Now, the thing is, many other HDTV productions do use this type of filter as well, however the degree to which WKRC is using it is more than excessive. I can see more detail on Sheree Paolello on WLWT's digital SD upconverts than I can on Rob or Kit.

I would hope that they would just eliminate the "vanity filter," but my guess is that certain people won't allow it, and I don't think they'll do anything about it at all unless they get complaints. It might be a good idea to e-mail the news director at WKRC with concerns, and possibly John Kiesewetter at the Enquirer as well as he might have a bit of influence.

In other news, WKRC has on-air personalities that are worth using the "vanity filter" on?

That's what I liked about them, regular old people (looks anyhow) doing the news. I agree, it does look horrible. If good looks = good ratings count me out! :D

Thanks Jim. I was looking for anyone to chime in. That's what these forums are all about. I have heard that ch 12 is adament that Rob Braun color his hair before broadcasts because if left natural he would be quite grey. The powers that be want no part of that.

I'd never heard of a vanity filter. Thanks for the info...

I wonder if WLWT wll be switching to HD soon? Jack Atherton is slated to begin in October or November and that would coincide rather nicely I think. Just a thought.

I wonder if WLWT wll be switching to HD soon? Jack Atherton is slated to begin in October or November and that would coincide rather nicely I think. Just a thought.I think Jack starts Oct 1 or Oct 3... something like that I believe I heard. I've already seen him in a PSA (public service announcement) on WLWT saying "Hi, I'm News 5's Jack Atherton here to tell you about..."

As for HD, whenever I've asked I've been told it's corporate's call (Hearst-Argyle) when they go HD. They invested a lot in some very modern digital SD equipment more recently than the other stations as I understand it, so they probably need to get enough return on that investment before spending more on new HD equipment.

I think Jack starts Oct 1 or Oct 3... something like that I believe I heard. I've already seen him in a PSA (public service announcement) on WLWT saying "Hi, I'm News 5's Jack Atherton here to tell you about..."

As for HD, whenever I've asked I've been told it's corporate's call (Hearst-Argyle) when they go HD. They invested a lot in some very modern digital SD equipment more recently than the other stations as I understand it, so they probably need to get enough return on that investment before spending more on new HD equipment.

October 1 is tomorrow. Anyway, I'm looking forward to Valerie Abati in H.D. They shouldn't need a "Vanity Filter" for her.

I think Jack starts Oct 1 or Oct 3... something like that I believe I heard. I've already seen him in a PSA (public service announcement) on WLWT saying "Hi, I'm News 5's Jack Atherton here to tell you about..."

As for HD, whenever I've asked I've been told it's corporate's call (Hearst-Argyle) when they go HD. They invested a lot in some very modern digital SD equipment more recently than the other stations as I understand it, so they probably need to get enough return on that investment before spending more on new HD equipment.

Because Hearst owns so many stations in larger markets, WLWT is lower on the priority list in that chain. Contrast this to Columbus, where WBNS has always been the market leader (and sister-station WTHR is the market-leader in Indianapolis), WCMH is Media General's second-most important station (next to WFLA) and WSYX/WTTE being Sinclair's most profitable operation, some say generating 40% of the company's profit. In Dayton, I bet WRGT and WKEF will go to HD before WDTN does for the same reason.

Atherton starts Monday.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2009/09/30/when-will-jack-atherton-debut-on-ch-5/

Could someone get me new TSReader data on WCVN once their subchannels change today? 54-1 is going HD and 54-4 is going away.

Thanks.

- Trip

Could someone get me new TSReader data on WCVN once their subchannels change today? 54-1 is going HD and 54-4 is going away.

Thanks.

- Trip
Here you go (attached).

Also attached screen shot for the lazy.

Yes. 54-4 has gone away. I am quite pleased with this as they would switch between HD and SD on an opposite channel meaning 54-4 would be blank from 8PM to midnight.

WPTO-DT needs to do the same thing. They need to remove 14-5 SD.

Speaking of KET, FYI, this says KET's KY Life will be HD this season (Starting this Sat night) :

http://www.ket.org/pressroom/2009/38/kkyli_001502.html

Yes. 54-4 has gone away. I am quite pleased with this as they would switch between HD and SD on an opposite channel meaning 54-4 would be blank from 8PM to midnight.

Not enough bandwidth to run a video stream... and turning off the channels in the tuning tables is not advised due to the fact that some units don't take updates and must be re-scanned.

William

William,

During the 12:30pm~1pm PBS children's programing that ran on KET, there seemed to be an issue with the audio -- Specifically, around 12:50 EDT or so I heard what seemed to be audio from another program (or the same program at another time) about 10~20db Down from the "correct" program audio ... It went away with the KET program at 1PM -- CET was running the same PBS show at 12:30, and I didn't hear the audio oddity there ...

p.s. -- The way the VBR/Stat mux is working currently is interesting, especially regarding KET (HD) Video and KET2 SD Video Bitrate (as high as a bit over 7Mb/s currently) .....

We had to switch around not only the encoding but also which master control was feeding what service... Then the HD encoder burped...

Long story short the DVS serive got fed to the main audio for a bit..

As far as Stat mux goes all three services are sharing the same bandwidth with KET as the primary followed by 2 and KY .. If KET doesn't need it then 2 adn KY get more bandwidth allocated to them...


WBS

^ It looks really good so Far ...

Given the amount of 16x9 programming from PBS that runs on KET2, I Do wish you could drop the letterboxing on KET2 and do 704x480 16x9 for the 16x9 stuff, and send/change to 704x480 4x3 for the 4x3 stuff .... Unfortunetly though, probably some (or a lot of?) user equipment out there that wouldn't handle the PAR changes, and I'm sure I probably wouldn't like the other possibility I can think of ---- Sending 704x480 16x9 at all times and "squeezing in" pillarbars for the 4x3 stuff ... Suppose That might work well for the downconverted PBS HD feeds though (with presumably the pillarbars already added by PBS) ....

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Cleveland
Ian Eagle, Rich Gannon

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Seattle at Indianapolis
Dick Stockton, Charles Davis

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Dallas at Denver
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman


Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – San Diego at Pittsburgh
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Green Bay at Minnesota+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

^ It looks really good so Far ...

Given the amount of 16x9 programming from PBS that runs on KET2, I Do wish you could drop the letterboxing on KET2 and do 704x480 16x9 for the 16x9 stuff, and send/change to 704x480 4x3 for the 4x3 stuff .... Unfortunetly though, probably some (or a lot of?) user equipment out there that wouldn't handle the PAR changes, and I'm sure I probably wouldn't like the other possibility I can think of ---- Sending 704x480 16x9 at all times and "squeezing in" pillarbars for the 4x3 stuff ... Suppose That might work well for the downconverted PBS HD feeds though (with presumably the pillarbars already added by PBS) ....

We talked about it but there are questions about how the end user's equipment would react.

There are a number of stations doing the widescreen SD thing which might make sense not just for 54-2, but also for 54-3 if any of the KET-KY programming is produced in HD. I'm not referring to the switching resolutions, but just putting pillar bars as you do on HD now.

http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=widesd

There's a list of stations doing so if that helps you in some way.

Of course, I'm sure there's other considerations, but just thinking out loud. :)

- Trip

I wish 12-2 CinCW would consider doing 480p widescreen during primetime.

Here you go (attached).

Also attached screen shot for the lazy.

Thanks. :)

Any chance you could get me one while they're showing some bandwidth-intensive HD content? That stat muxer is quite aggressive.

- Trip

There are a number of stations doing the widescreen SD thing which might make sense not just for 54-2, but also for 54-3 if any of the KET-KY programming is produced in HD. I'm not referring to the switching resolutions, but just putting pillar bars as you do on HD now.

http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=widesd

There's a list of stations doing so if that helps you in some way.

Of course, I'm sure there's other considerations, but just thinking out loud. :)

- Trip

As I understand it its an issues with some SD cable boxes not responding the 16 X 9 aspect ratio... Its also and issues if the providers are decoding the signal to baseband and then re-encoding to MPEG 4 as well..

William

Thanks. :)

Any chance you could get me one while they're showing some bandwidth-intensive HD content? That stat muxer is quite aggressive.

- Trip

Some of the programs are 4 X3 upconverts with pillar boxes and cartoons.. Bandwidth peaks are about 13.5 or more..

William

We talked about it but there are questions about how the end user's equipment would react.

Would it cost anything (other than time of course) to try it out or is that completely out of the question? I mean worst case scenario you just go back to the tried and true method that you know works.

The CH12 news @ 5 in HD looks really good this evening I think. Seems the best looking I have seen it yet.

Would it cost anything (other than time of course) to try it out or is that completely out of the question? I mean worst case scenario you just go back to the tried and true method that you know works.

No, its just configuring the equipment on our end.. but remember we are on over 150 cable systems alone not just two or three...and every one is different..

William

I posted the following at Satelliteguys.us:

*Update*

While my setup initially worked pretty well I did have a couple of issues that manifested. Primarily due to multipath problems. While I would normally get decent reception 97% of the time, I occasionally would lose a channel completely (usually 54) for days on end. At the same time I also lost a couple other channels (22, 26) from Dayton. During this period I had major issues with 25 but at least it still came in and wasn't a black screen like the others. This was a pretty easy fix as all that was required was a simple antenna realignment. The Cincinnati aimed antenna was the one I realigned and even the Dayton stations came back. This was the beginning of the multipath issues.

I thought the multipath issue was because of the connecting wire I used to connect the Cinti & Dayton UHF antennas and apparently the twists in the cat5e wire weren't doing what I had hoped for. I was still getting audio dropouts and the occasional video dropouts as well. I associated all of this with the cat5e.

Then we had a bunch of rain. I lost channels I had never had trouble with before I 'joined' the 2 UHF antennas regardless of the weather. Besides the multipath I figured the wind and rain and cloud cover just added to the problem and after it cleared up I wouldn't have any problems. Wrong. Even with sunny, clear blue skys I was getting dropouts. I was really getting annoyed and planned on doing something different. Well today I finally got around to it, before we get this rain tonight and tomorrow.

I changed a couple of things. First and foremost was to change the cat5e wire with RG6. When I removed the car5e I discovered the cable was full of water. HA! That explains why the multipath/reflections were occuring with such frequency. The water, combined with the unshielded cat5e was just playing havoc with the signal. So I instead used RG6 and 2 baluns to join the antennas.

Then, I noticed the antennas were closer together than I cared for so I lowered the bottom antenna as far I could and also reaimed it. Now all 3 antennas (1 VHF & 2 UHF) are spaced as equally and as far apart from each other as possible. Also all RG6 cables from the antennas to the UVSJ are very close to being the same length, insted of having 1 cable short and the other 2 long.

After all this I went in and checked signal levels and reception. I am happy to report that everything is the most stable, and the best strength as it has ever been since the addition of the second antenna. Of course today was a perfect weather day for television reception and the real test will be later tonight when it rains and the next few weeks as the weather changes with the seasons.

So far it looks good. I have tried several channels I had regular audio dropouts on and so far everything is rock solid and stable. I am hoping this is it for any needed adjustments/changes to the antenna system.

I knew when I installed the second antenna I would have issues and it would be easier to just use a rotor. But I didn't think the issues would be so varied and constant. Now I know. But this is fun and I don't mind learning from my mistakes.

Sorry for the length I just wanted to let those interested know what was going on in case they or other reader was having issues. While I realize there is always chances of reception issues especially in my situation/location, I feel I am best setup as anyone could be. Time will be the ultimate evaluator though.

No, its just configuring the equipment on our end.. but remember we are on over 150 cable systems alone not just two or three...and every one is different..

William

Wow, 150 systems huh? I honestly did not know that so I certainly understand. Thanks for the reply William.:)

As I understand it its an issues with some SD cable boxes not responding the 16 X 9 aspect ratio... Its also and issues if the providers are decoding the signal to baseband and then re-encoding to MPEG 4 as well..

William

Also, I would think a problem issue might involve what would happen during 16x9 programming that isn't 4x3 safe if they did a 4x3 center cut, as I'd imagine some of the providers might do ...

For the same reason I don't like the letterboxing(Loss of resolution), I also probably wouldn't like the pillarbar idea for 4x3 programming for KET2 or KETKY (especially for the KET 4x3 SD programming) as it would lower the horizontal resolution, But, that's just me ...

My 16x9 HDTV's have an "auto aspect" function, which, if enabled, automatically formats the screen mode depending upon the AR flag from the 480i (or p) source ---- for 4x3 (it adds Pillarbars) or 16x9 (full screen mode) .... Works for DVD's or anything else ....

Presumably, at least some DTV receivers might handle it OK as well (such as via LG boxes "set by program" option) -- such as adding Letterboxing on a 4x3 set for 16x9 programming/etc "on the fly" -- But so far, I haven't had an oppurtunity to test that with the Zenith DTV converter boxes here .... I know they do that if 720p or 1080i source is present, but am only guessing that they might recognize AR flag (4x3 or 16x9) for 480i/p and format their video output accordingly ....

Presumably, at least some DTV receivers might handle it OK as well (such as via LG boxes "set by program" option) -- such as adding Letterboxing on a 4x3 set for 16x9 programming/etc "on the fly" -- But so far, I haven't had an oppurtunity to test that with the Zenith DTV converter boxes here .... I know they do that if 720p or 1080i source is present, but am only guessing that they might recognize AR flag (4x3 or 16x9) for 480i/p and format their video output accordingly ....

Not sure I understand completely what you are saying. Naturally I imagine your DTV receiver will automatically switch between 16:9 and 4:3 and that you would have it set that way. I also presume that your 16:9 TV will not change aspect ratio when used in conjunction with the receiver. These presumptions are made based on my receiver + TV.

Having said that (which I guess is really saying nothing ;) ) I have my LG DTV receiver on aspect ratio-set by program and the output is 1080i at all times. This means my Toshiba HDTV gets a HD signal and therefore automatically (I cannot override this feature) goes to 'Natural' or 'Full', I can't say either way because if I press 'aspect ratio' all that is displayed is "This feature is not available".

Regardless the picture switches from 16:9 to 4:3 on the fly such as going from a 16:9 program such as tonights episode of 'The Office'. And then switches to 4:3 for whatever commercial is 4:3.

Thanks. :)

Any chance you could get me one while they're showing some bandwidth-intensive HD content? That stat muxer is quite aggressive.

- TripChecking just now at 10:30pm there's an SD program on 54-1 and its running at around 9Mbps. I'll keep trying to check in when I have time and get you a capture.

Thanks. I want to have a good one that shows the HD at a good bitrate before I copy+paste the new data to all the KET stations on RabbitEars.

- Trip

I wish 12-2 CinCW would consider doing 480p widescreen during primetime.
Television can be broadcast in 480p?

Television can be broadcast in 480p?

I'm not aware of any stations doing so, but it's in the spec.

- Trip

I knew when I installed the second antenna I would have issues and it would be easier to just use a rotor. But I didn't think the issues would be so varied and constant. Now I know. But this is fun and I don't mind learning from my mistakes.


Use a rotor and single antenna setup or seperate coax runs from Each antenna(Dayton ant vs Cincy ant) setup with A/B switch before receiver to select between them for best(most consistant) results in most cases ...

Combining different antennas aimed in different directions puts the antennas out of phase, and issues such as how long the feedlines are between the antenna and the combiner are of no significance in that case, as regardless, the antennas are out of phase .... It can work to some degree in some situations if you get Lucky, but oftentimes, while you might seem to get "good enough" result under certian conditions, that may change when issues such as say, wind blows the tree limbs around (might work differently when leaves are on trees vs. off trees/etc), or a aircraft is flying nearby/etc/etc ....

Also, Using Cat 5 cable to combine the antennas likely makes for a random wire antenna and quite an impedance mismatch .... Balun is a necessary item between the antenna and the unbalanced Coax ....


Not sure I understand completely what you are saying.


I'm talking about what might happen with any given DTV receiver/user equipment should a station switch between sending 704x480 16x9 (with NO letterboxing) format for 16x9 programming, and 704x480 4x3 format for 4x3 programming(No pillarbars/etc).

The difference in those two formats is only a change in Pixel aspect ratio(PAR - As displayed/when displayed properly --- Pixels are necessarily "fatter" for 704x480 16x9 , and "skinnier" for 704x480 4x3), and a change in a AR(aspect ratio) flag in the stream, to tell equipment whether the format being sent is 4x3 or 16x9 --- so the equipment, if it supports it can "format" it's output to properly match the dimensions of the display device -- I.e. 4x3 or 16x9 ....

To use perhaps a familar example ---- DVD's (and DVD Players) use MPEG2 encoding(decoding) and work exactly the same way ... For example, Aspect ratio for programming encoded on a DVD could be 720x480 4x3("Full screen" - 1.33:1), or 720x480 16x9 (sometimes called "anamorphic" widescreen - 1.78:1) .... If the programming's aspect ratio is 4x3 (1.33:1) or 16x9 (1.78:1) --- in either case, no Letterboxing or pillarbars are encoded as picture data, thus the content can utilize the full 720x480 resolution .... For example, It's the DVD player which adds the letterboxing for a 4x3 set if you have a 4x3 set and are watching a "16x9 anamporhic" DVD and have the DVD player set up for a 4x3 set .... Note: of course, the content on the DVD could be encoded as 704x480 or a number of other resolutions as well ...

Oh, BTW --- HD (1920x1080 or 1280x720) has square Pixels, the AR for those is allways 16x9 -- for 4x3 programming, pillarbars added at the station(or network) take up the room on the sides .... (The 4x3 "center area" for 1080i/p is 1440x1080) .....

Thanks. I want to have a good one that shows the HD at a good bitrate before I copy+paste the new data to all the KET stations on RabbitEars.

- TripI am attaching a capture I did during Sesame Street this morning. The highest I have seen the HD video stream so far is 11.2Mbps, but I don't doubt that it tops out around 13.5 as William said.

Update on Channel 48 WCET OTA issues:

I've had problems receiving ota channel 48 this past month. The virtual channel 48 is missing and I only receive over channel 34-3, 34-4, & 34-5. This creates problems with my TiVo recordings since there is no program guide. I've done a rescan (after deleting everything) to no avail. Here is the response I received from WCET's Jack Dominic regarding this problem:

A power outage a few weeks ago destroyed several components that handle the channel identification for Ch 48. Rather than spend the several thousands of dollars to replace it we decide to wait. We were already planning to replace it before the outage. We were already waiting for a new encoder to replace the old one. We decided to live with the issue pending the installation of the new encoder. We should be back to normal by mid October.

Update on Channel 48 WCET OTA issues:

I've had problems receiving ota channel 48 this past month. The virtual channel 48 is missing and I only receive over channel 34-3, 34-4, & 34-5. This creates problems with my TiVo recordings since there is no program guide. I've done a rescan (after deleting everything) to no avail.

[/I]

I had the exact same problem. I finally did a TIVO reset which initiated a complete scan from scratch and incidentally where I had to reestablish my network stuff. I was disappointed that the problem remained, but the following day I was receiving 48.1 and 48.2 OTA and still do. At the time I don't think 48.3 was mapped to 34.5 and 48.3 did not show up (though 34.3, 34.4, and 34.5 all did). I really don't know exactly what happened or why. I haven't tried an incremental scan to see if I can now get 48.3 OTA.

Michael

I guess it is just me, and I don't mean or wish anything bad by it, but damn if Jack Atherton does not look healthy. Way to thin, like a sickly thin. As I said tho, maybe its just me.:confused:

I guess it is just me, and I don't mean or wish anything bad by it, but damn if Jack Atherton does not look healthy. Way to thin, like a sickly thin. As I said tho, maybe its just me.:confused:I thought the exact same thing... he almost looks sick. I really hope he works out on News 5 but I hope they can do something to make him look better!

same here...

same here...

Ditto...

Well, I was watching WKRC the other night and Tim Hendrick complained about the same things I did in a previous post! He said he looked 3 ft. tall on the screen! Again, they need to move the graphics title bar to the top of the screen and allow there talent to look normal on the screen.

Well, I was watching WKRC the other night and Tim Hendrick complained about the same things I did in a previous post! He said he looked 3 ft. tall on the screen! Again, they need to move the graphics title bar to the top of the screen and allow there talent to look normal on the screen.
WKRC had some major problems during the 5:30pm newscast today. Looked like they had trouble coming back from a commercial break. It seemed like they attempted several times, failed, and then aired a commercial and tried again. When they finally did come back they were in SD for the rest of the newscast (that I watched through another commercial break or two) except for the news ticker at the bottom which filled out into the left "wing" but not the right "wing" !?

If you plan on running a 1000' of any cable, you will need a line amp and power supply along with pads and EQ's depending on the frequencies being amplified. Doing this is not for the layman and I discourage you from doing this. From the sound of it you will need a tower for the antenna, not a 20 foot mast.

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Baltimore
Gus Johnson, Steve Tasker

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Atlanta at San Francisco
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) New England at Denver
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms


Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Indianapolis at Tennessee
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – JY Jets at Miami+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Got a notification from BeyondTV software that 48-3 has been added to my line up. I would take this as a sign that 48-3 is now with us long term. I'm happy that WCET was able to do this rather than having the 2Mbps of wasted bandwidth they had previously. Still would love to have better looking HD (no subchannels) but at least they are no longer "screwing the OTA viewer to provide an extra channel to cable."

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Houston at Cincinnati
Don Criqui, Randy Cross

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) NY Giants at New Orleans*
Thom Brennaman, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Tennessee at New England
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

4pm FOX (19 WXIX) Philadelphia at Oakland
Sam Rosen, Tim Ryan

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Chicago at Atlanta
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Denver at San Diego+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Cable gets 6 games.

Cable gets 6 games.
What did I miss?

As of right now, the Bengals game will be blacked out for those in the Dayton/Cincinnati markets. http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/bengals/entries/2009/10/13/no_tv_bengals_may_be_blacked_o.html

What did I miss?

Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable carries WRGT. ;)

Cable carries WRGT. ;)Whose cable? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Unless there has been some major change that I am unaware of, WRGT is not carried on the vast majority of cable systems in Cincinnati. There are a few in the areas that border the Dayton DMA that do, but even in that circumstance I believe the affiliates have contracts in place that prevent duplication of the network feeds -- that is, during FOX programming, WRGT would be blacked out or alternative programming shown.

Whose cable? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Unless there has been some major change that I am unaware of, WRGT is not carried on the vast majority of cable systems in Cincinnati.
What I am trying to say is the 1PM game can be seen on WRGT in Cinti:
CH. 15 WRGT
CH. 4 WRGT
Mt. Orab Cable also carries WRGT. Since this is the Cincinnati thread these are the most prevelant (and the vast majority) cable systems that do carry WRGT. ;)

I've always had WRGT on my TWC cable here in Fairfield. Of course, that puts me damn near halfway to Dayton...

Originally Posted by TW Cincinnati Analog Line Up
CH. 15 WRGT

Not sure where you found that but I am on TWC (Mason) and 15 is Trinity/Local Access. Using zip 45208 TWC's web site shows the same for Hyde Park. No WRGT in either line up.

Not sure where you found that but I am on TWC (Mason) and 15 is Trinity/Local Access. Using zip 45208 TWC's web site shows the same for Hyde Park. No WRGT in either line up.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/customerservice/clu/Clu.ashx?CLUID=1027&Image1=&Zip=

Just like the rest of their customer service, the TWC webite is a disaster (no surprise). That listing looks to be out of date. Probably because they really don't care to sign anyone up for analog only.

No WRGT here (neither analog via TV tuner nor digital via cable box). This reflects what I actually have.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/customerservice/clu/Clu.ashx?CLUID=1028&Image1=&Zip=45241

Thats a distinct problem with cable. Ay least in Cinti. They should have the Dayton channels as well as the Cincinnati channels for when 2 different programs are run, which is dailey with the general exception of primetime.

Case in point; last night WCPO ran te stupid Mayorial debate @ 8:00, and one of my families favorite shows that actually brings us all together to watch TV as a family ('Shark Tank') was pre-empted for that crap. However WKEF (Dayton CH 22 ABC) had the programming. This was a time for me to gloat that I had prepared well in advance (albeit for a different priority - football. ;) ) with my antenna setup for just such a reason.

Not to mention that the Dayton channels has alternative programming during non primetime hours, effectively doubling the programming choices above and beyond the local only program choices. This is the reason why I placed all the Dayton channels as well as the Cincinnati channels in the Mt. Orab channel lineup. It just doesn't make sense to not do it when it is so readily available to do so.

^As I mentioned above and I think you just did too, Dayton stations can't duplicate network programming and so are blacked out/alternate programming shown during programming originating from the network, correct? My understanding is that affiliates have the contractual rights to network programming within a DMA, meaning no other affiliate can show the network programming within their DMA. Is this not the case for NFL coverage by FOX and CBS?

Things were so quiet around here that the only thing between my NFL week 5 and 6 posts was another one of my own posts! I guess we are desperate for things to discuss now. :)

Just like the rest of their customer service, the TWC webite is a disaster (no surprise). That listing looks to be out of date. Probably because they really don't care to sign anyone up for analog only.

No WRGT here (neither analog via TV tuner nor digital via cable box). This reflects what I actually have.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/customerservice/clu/Clu.ashx?CLUID=1028&Image1=&Zip=45241

If you select Cincinnati analog lineup from the dropdown list it certainly does show WRGT as ch 15 from my POV. Your link left me at a page where I entered 45241 as the zip. I was under the impression TWC's analog lineup was similar all over the city.

If you select Cincinnati analog lineup from the dropdown list it certainly does show WRGT as ch 15 from my POV. Your link left me at a page where I entered 45241 as the zip. I was under the impression TWC's analog lineup was similar all over the city.

Enter 45208 (Hyde Park), 45202 (downtown) or any other zip within the city limits and let us know if you find WRGT in the channel line up. Even if you do, I would bet that subscribers in that area Do NOT get WRGT.

Network affiliates are protected within their DMA and unless the local affiliate specifically gives TWC permission to carry an out of market affiliate, they are prohibited from doing so.

Yes they must have a retrans agreement. Which is pretty hard to get. What the cable co has to do is - ask. ;)

Here is the listing for college football HD games available in our area this week:

OTA only viewers will get five HD games
Time Warner viewers will get twenty HD games (FSN-Ohio does not broadcast its college football games in HD)
DirecTV viewers (w/WSTR OTA and sports pack) will get twenty-one HD games
Dish viewers (w/WSTR OTA and sports package) will get twenty-eight HD games

Arkansas St. at UL-Monroe ESPN2 HD Oct 13 2009 8:00PM
Boise St. at Tulsa ESPN HD Oct 14 2009 8:00PM
Cincinnati at USF ESPN HD Oct 15 2009 7:30PM
Howard at Morgan St. ESPNU HD Oct 15 2009 7:30PM
Pittsburgh at Rutgers ESPN HD Oct 16 2009 8:00PM
Oklahoma vs. Texas
(at Fair Park, TX)
ABC HD Oct 17 2009 12:00PM
Iowa at Wisconsin ESPN HD Oct 17 2009 12:00PM
Northwestern at Michigan St. ESPN2 HD Oct 17 2009 12:00PM
Ohio St. at Purdue Big Ten HD Oct 17 2009 12:00PM
Delaware St. at Michigan Big Ten HD Oct 17 2009 12:00PM
Georgia at Vanderbilt SEC Network HD Oct 17 2009 12:00PM
Princeton at Brown Versus HD Oct 17 2009 12:30PM
Mississippi St. at Middle Tennessee ESPNU HD Oct 17 2009 12:30PM
USC at Notre Dame NBC HD Oct 17 2009 3:30PM
Arkansas at Florida CBS HD Oct 17 2009 3:30PM
Minnesota at Penn St. ABC HD/ESPN Oct 17 2009 3:30PM
Houston at Tulane CBS College Sports HD Oct 17 2009 3:30PM
Colorado St. at TCU Versus HD Oct 17 2009 4:00PM
Virginia at Maryland ESPNU HD Oct 17 2009 4:00PM
Virginia Tech at Georgia Tech ESPN2 HD Oct 17 2009 6:00PM
Kansas at Colorado FSN HD Oct 17 2009 7:00PM
Illinois at Indiana Big Ten HD Oct 17 2009 7:00PM
Stanford at Arizona Versus HD Oct 17 2009 7:30PM
Kentucky at Auburn ESPNU HD Oct 17 2009 7:30PM
Miami (FL) at UCF CBS College Sports HD Oct 17 2009 7:30PM
South Carolina at Alabama ESPN HD Oct 17 2009 7:45PM
Missouri at Oklahoma St. ESPN2 HD Oct 17 2009 9:15PM
Washington at Arizona St. FSN HD Oct 17 2009 10:15PM

quick question:

i finally got a tv with a tuner built in! i have TWC (middletown) ... and live in an apartment - is it worth it to get an entry level indoor antenna, or just save that bit of cash for a PS3 or BR player?

most of our HD watching is primetime series (my wife and the dreaded thursday night lineup), college & pro football, pro basketball.

any thoughts?

;17359101']quick question:

i finally got a tv with a tuner built in! i have TWC (middletown) ... and live in an apartment - is it worth it to get an entry level indoor antenna, or just save that bit of cash for a PS3 or BR player?

most of our HD watching is primetime series (my wife and the dreaded thursday night lineup), college & pro football, pro basketball.

any thoughts?Is your hope to receive more than what you currently get by adding the antenna option, or is it to switch to antenna exclusively and drop cable?

well, i was thinking to supplement my cable feed. can't really drop the cable - have to have reliable high speed internet due to work, and DSL in Middletucky is neither.

i'm mainly wondering if an indoor is worth the hassle.

;17360207']well, i was thinking to supplement my cable feed. can't really drop the cable - have to have reliable high speed internet due to work, and DSL in Middletucky is neither.

i'm mainly wondering if an indoor is worth the hassle.

What can you reliably pick up now? Do you have a simple non-amplified set-top antenna? (If not, it's a good idea to pick one up in case your cable goes out.)

;17359101']quick question:

i finally got a tv with a tuner built in! i have TWC (middletown) ... and live in an apartment - is it worth it to get an entry level indoor antenna, or just save that bit of cash for a PS3 or BR player?

most of our HD watching is primetime series (my wife and the dreaded thursday night lineup), college & pro football, pro basketball.

any thoughts?

I am well south of you (Fairfield) and get all Dayton HD stations reasonably well. Ch 7 and 45 are a bit hinky but I am using an attic antenna I have hanging from a pothanger that happened to be in a good spot on the ceiling. You should get all the Dayton stations with a decent indoor antenna judging from what I see here, but as we all know there's only one way to find out!

I was considering starting a "Hillbilly Antenna Rig" thread elsewhere on this board simply because I think it would be interesting and worth a few chuckles!

[edit] My 2¢ on the BR question: I had a Bluray player. Yes it looks great. I also have an older upscaling DVD player. Recent (last 3-4 years) dvd movie video quality has improved greatly and looks great on a nice upscaling DVD player. To me, the poor performance and general quality of Bluray leaves me unimpressed. It seems like if they had put as much effort into features and performance in the Bluray discs as they did for the copy protection it would be worthwhile. As it stands now I can't turn off the player and resume at the same spot later on! This should be a standard feature on any media player! A quick look at the Blu Ray Players area here will show how many people are frustrated with most everything about the Bluray hardware except the picture quality. If you do eventually get one you might as well get the PS3 since the price has dropped to cheaper than many stand-alone players and it has other capabilities.

[/end rant mode] :p

Here is the listing for college football HD games available in our area this week:
[snippage...]

BTW, thanks for this. jimp2244's NFL info is well-liked here and I was always scrambling to find out info on college games that I could actually watch. Although the news is usually bad for an antenna guy* like me at least I know...


*I use an antenna for OTA Dayton stations and also have the TWC $11.45/month basic cable where I can get the Cincinnati local HDTV signals via QAM. I have to admit, this time of year I really miss ESPN and when spring hits I miss it and TNT for the NBA playoffs. This setup along with Windows 7 Media Center actually make this a very nice, cheap way to cut costs if you can live without the cable sports.

As it stands now I can't turn off the player and resume at the same spot later on! This should be a standard feature on any media player!

I have this same issue with my HD DVD and am in total agreement with you. However, it only takes me a second to see what chapter I am on before I turn the player off and can quickly resume from that spot by going thru the 'scene selections' in the main menu. It really is a non-issue for me now. ;)

I have this same issue with my HD DVD and am in total agreement with you. However, it only takes me a second to see what chapter I am on before I turn the player off and can quickly resume from that spot by going thru the 'scene selections' in the main menu. It really is a non-issue for me now. ;)

Yea, but it was nice when I had players that just did it automatically. My fav was my now deceased Oppo 970 which died an untimely death during a power surge. It didn't do it automatically like other players, actually had a "save" button. I ended up preferring this method because if I was feeling myself starting to doze, leaving, whatever, I could hit the save button and not have to mess with it. The Sony I have in the bedroom (circa 2003) remembers the last position for the previous 5 discs you put in it. That kinda doesn't work so well when I am snoring by the time the movie is half-way done. :p

The killer "feature" for the BD-P1600 Bluray player I had was that it powers down after 40 minutes. Talk about annoying. I actually was worried at times that it was running so hot that it was dangerous and I think their inept engineers put the powerdown feature in to prevent this unit from costing them lots of lawsuits. I would get sidetracked, pause the movie, come back to find the player off, power it back on and lost my place.

I returned it.

My HD A35 resumes where the movie left off on SDVD just like a SDVD player does. Just not on HD DVD. From what I understand, that is something authored on the disc itself.

Bengals appear to have sold out. No official announcement yet so don't bet the bank, but it's all but certain. In general, when a team is given an extension, it is all but certain the team will sell out.

From bengals.com

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Ocho-scores-as-blackout-lifted/0d2fe497-856d-4dc8-b6ef-237ae4ffa227

Ocho, Motorola and Channel 12 bought up 1000 tickets and will be giving away 500 pairs of tickets on Saturday. Looks like the blackout will be lifted.

Ocho, Motorola and Channel 12 bought up 1000 tickets and will be giving away 500 pairs of tickets on Saturday.

Perhaps Chad Ochocinco will run outside the stadium and give away some of his tickets after he scores a touchdown. :D

Perhaps Chad Ochocinco will run outside the stadium and give away some of his tickets after he scores a touchdown. :D

As long as someone is holding them for him, if he has them in his sock its a prop and would be a penalty.:D

^As I mentioned above and I think you just did too, Dayton stations can't duplicate network programming and so are blacked out/alternate programming shown during programming originating from the network, correct? My understanding is that affiliates have the contractual rights to network programming within a DMA, meaning no other affiliate can show the network programming within their DMA. Is this not the case for NFL coverage by FOX and CBS?

Things were so quiet around here that the only thing between my NFL week 5 and 6 posts was another one of my own posts! I guess we are desperate for things to discuss now. :)


I lived in Middletown a few weeks ago and we would get both cincy and dayton locals (Cincy in HD & SD and dayton in SD only). Neither ever blacked out. Received NFL games from both markets and got to watch the extra games that the OTA'ers get. In dayton though, the nfl games on WXIX are usually blacked out...

So I guess if you live in a fringe area (for me it was TW Cincy but close enough to dayton) its no blackouts but if you live in one area but still get the other locals its blacked out.

heard from a friend last night that has been working for TW for several years that we are getting 10 more HD next week, and another 10 in December ...

he didn't have any specifics, other than one was a "kiddy cartoony thing" and something "diy/home repair-y" ...

on the plus side, he said my signal levels were amazing for an apartment complex, even with all the splits (ya, i got wire stapled to my ceiling. wife already yelled at me for it.)


I'm hoping Travel channel is one ... would love to watch No Reservations the way it is filmed instead of zooming it to pseudo-HD.

Here are the TWC HD channels promised on Oct. 27 :

AMC HD
Bio HD
Disney XD HD
E! HD
Headline News HD
MSNBC HD
Speed HD
Travel HD
Versus HD
Weather HD

Do they have TCM-HD yet? (Turner Classic Movies; I heard recently it went into production).

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) New England at Tampa Bay (London)
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Minnesota at Pittsburgh
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Chicago at Cincinnati
Sam Rosen, Tim Ryan

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Arizona at NY Giants
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Philadelphia at Washington+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

jimp2244, you ROCK! Thanks once again for posting the NFL games. :)

I just noticed no Thursday night NFL Network games yet this year? Are they no longer doing this? Doesn't really matter to me since I don't have access to satellite channels but I was just curious.

i believe they start on thanksgiving and go to the end of the year

WEEK 10 | THU

Nov. 12, 8 p.m. ET

Chicago at San Francisco


WEEK 11 | THU

Nov. 19, 8 p.m. ET

Miami at Carolina


WEEK 12 | THU

Nov. 26, 8 p.m. ET

N.Y. Giants at Denver
(Thanksgiving)


WEEK 13 | THU

Dec. 3, 8 p.m. ET

N.Y. Jets at Buffalo
(in Toronto)


WEEK 14 | THU

Dec. 10, 8 p.m. ET

Pittsburgh at Cleveland


WEEK 15 | THU

Dec. 17, 8 p.m. ET

Indianapolis at Jacksonville


WEEK 15 | SAT

Dec. 19, 8 p.m. ET

Dallas at New Orleans


WEEK 16 | FRI

Dec. 25, 7:30 p.m. ET

San Diego at Tennesse

I just noticed no Thursday night NFL Network games yet this year? Are they no longer doing this? Doesn't really matter to me since I don't have access to satellite channels but I was just curious.

i believe they start on thanksgiving and go to the end of the year
They actually start two weeks before Thanksgiving. There will be NFLN games on the following dates. All are on Thursdays except as noted.

November 12 - Chicago at San Francisco
November 19 - Miami at Carolina
November 26 - NY Giants at Denver
December 3 - NY Jets vs Buffalo (game is in Toronto)
December 10 - Pittsburgh at Cleveland
December 17 - Indianapolis at Jacksonville
December 19 - Dallas at New Orleans (Saturday)
December 25 - San Diego at Tennessee (Friday)

^I'm too slow!!

CH5 now has static 'WLWT.COM' on both side bars when the 4:3 news is being broadcast. At least the 5-6:30 newscast did. I don't like it. It wouldn't bother me if the damn thing scrolled top to bottom or bottom to top, but static will cause burn in. I will not be watching much of CH5 news much any longer because of this. I get 9, 12 & 19 in HD and don't need CH5 news. I will still watch NBC Nightly News & the Today Show, but NOT the local news until this dumbass move is removed or changed to provide scrolling material.

Why the hell don't they just switch to HD and be done with it? The morons HAVE to realise that the longer they wait, the more it will cost. Simple concept to understand.

Why the hell don't they just switch to HD and be done with it? The morons HAVE to realise that the longer they wait, the more it will cost. Simple concept to understand.I guess I'm a moron and don't find it simple... :p

Not being confrontational... I really just don't know. How does it cost more if you wait longer? I would think, as with most technology, that the longer you wait, the cheaper the technology gets.... why is this not so, here? :confused:

It won't cause burn-in. How often would you sit there and watch WLWT news for hours straight? Not to mention its grey. Even the original plasmas would be ok with that and they were notorious for burn-in. Newer televisions are much better about it from what I read. My DLP has always been immune to it.

Ch 5 news is not worth watching anyway. It is just as bad as NBC's Prime time lineup.

Last time I had digital cable the ESPN channels had their logo in grey on the sidebar material. I'd be concerned if it was white and I was watching it for hours straight. Otherwise it's an annoyance.

[edit]Assuming I had a TV that was prone to burn-in that is...

I don't have any problem with the "wings." In fact, as long as they aren't distracting, I prefer them. It helps propagate the understanding that 4:3 content should be displayed as such on the screen and not "stretched" to fill 16:9.

The WLWT.COM bars don't look that bad. It's a step in the right direction to get regular HD news up and running.

Apparently, (at least while I'm watching the NFL today) WXIX is sending the FOX HD feed through their encoder to insert the station ID at top/bottom of the hour, instead of using the splicer. There is an extremely obvious blip in the video and audio when as they put in the bug and remove it. It actually jumps ahead about a half second to a second (so you miss that video/audio) and then jumps back the when returning to the splicer (so you see/hear that second or so again). The video quality also suffers noticeable during the insertion.

If all of that didn't make sense, lets just say it's REALLY hokey.

Apparently, (at least while I'm watching the NFL today) WXIX is sending the FOX HD feed through their encoder to insert the station ID at top/bottom of the hour, instead of using the splicer. There is an extremely obvious blip in the video and audio when as they put in the bug and remove it. It actually jumps ahead about a half second to a second (so you miss that video/audio) and then jumps back the when returning to the splicer (so you see/hear that second or so again). The video quality also suffers noticeable during the insertion.

If all of that didn't make sense, lets just say it's REALLY hokey.

My family and I noticed that, too. Great catch!

I have been noticing this for about a week, real professional 19! Is the station identification that important that they have to cut out from the splicer? How do ALL the other Fox stations identify? Is there really a need to? Plus, its just text "WXIX-TV/DT". Also, should the stations continue to use "-TV"? I would think they should all be "-DT" due to the fact that the analog transmitters are powered down.

I have been noticing this for about a week, real professional 19! Is the station identification that important that they have to cut out from the splicer? How do ALL the other Fox stations identify? Is there really a need to? Plus, its just text "WXIX-TV/DT". Also, should the stations continue to use "-TV"? I would think they should all be "-DT" due to the fact that the analog transmitters are powered down.

They're allowed to do either/or by FCC rules. Some stations even chose to eliminate the suffix altogether. See here. (http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2009/06/articles/digital-television/fcc-provides-guidance-on-dtv-call-signs/)

^They used to use the splicer to do it, and it worked fine with a graphic FOX 19 "WXIX 19-1 Newport, KY."

And now WXIX in their infinite wisdom have decided that instead of bonus coverage of the Atlanta at Dallas and (the very competitive!) New Orleans at Miami games, we'd rather watch their disgusting looking, stretched SD video with overdriven, distorted audio post-game coverage. A high school A/V club could do a better job at this, not to mention we're missing some good games!! :mad:

Thanks to OTA and WRGT FOX Dayton, we do have another option.

We will get a total of 5 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 4 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC) Denver at Baltimore
Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

1pm CBS (7 WHIO) Cleveland at Chicago*
Kevin Harlan, Solomon Wilcots

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) San Francisco at Indianapolis
Sam Rosen, Tim Ryan

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Minnesota at Green Bay (Favrefest 2009)
Thom Brennaman, Troy Aikman

Sunday Night Football:

No SNF this week. Enjoy the World Series.

Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Atlanta at New Orleans+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:
We get 3 choices for the 1pm game (if you receive WHIO), but there will be no avoiding Brett Favre at 4pm.

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

CH 12 5PM news in 4:3? What happened to 16:9 widescreen?

*EDIT* Now in 16:9 HD.

The interferance flashing on 9 wco is so annoying as I am trying to watch Dancing With The Stars with my indoor antenna. I so hope they aprove the move to 22 from 10 so this crap can be stopped lol.

What "interferance flashing" on WCPO??? Perfect picture here. Solid and stable.

The interferance you get when the audio drops for a sec and then pixels flash for a sec. Had to move my antenna from its normal spot to stop it. It's like the flashing from like lightning but no lighting that causes interferance on VHF.