Ok Don thanks...I was able to watch WTDN -DT tonight and the audio sounded like it was out of phase, although the video looked a little sharper and brighter than WCPO-DT.

WDTN was up for MNF last night but for some reason the local commercials didn't show up on 2-1. It's likely if you watch during non-network programming times that all you'll get is a black screen.

I'm not sure what the deal is but probably something odd going on due to the network switch.

WCPO-DT looked good when the picture wasn't jumping/bending in & out...anyone else have that problem?

The only "bending" I noticed was coming from the heat rising off of the field. One of those things HD tends to expose better than SD.

chris - I noticed it too with the hughes htl-hd - my friend that was watching it as well said the picture looked "digital"

jim

The PQ for the most part was awesome & am really looking forward to the NFL in HD this year!

Any word on DD 5.1 for any of the Cinti-locals OTA yet?

If anyone wants to give an opinion on "best reciever setting" for listening to locals now (stereo only), I'd be interested. I've found using the "pro-logic" setting (3.1?) seems to sound best...i.e. a step below or older than Pro Logic II, true DD 5.1.

BTW, I've seen a few broadcasts (Olympics? -or 24) where the networks say, "available in Surround Sound" --is that just 3.1? R we even getting that passed through? This is the 21st century, isn't it? ^-^

directv passes on 5.1 for the olympics (channel 84) - as far as the locals - they are all in dd 2.0 which on my onkyo 600 sounds good in Pro-Logic 2 - not as good as 5.1 - but a lot better than analog :) DrDon knows more about the 5.1 stuff - supposedly wcpo-dt plans on adding 5.1 later this year - and I would imagine wxix-dt will go 5.1 when the switch is flipped

jim

Hello All,

Currently, I am having a friendly disagreement with my father-in-law who states that it won't make a difference if I install an antenna in my attic as opposed to outside. Basically, he thinks it too much to install the antenna outside and believes that I will get the same results if I put it in the attic.

I am located on top of a hill that is actually Butler County's second highest elevation. Nitewatchman believes that a small/medium directional would be sufficient for me. My desire is to receive HD broadcasts from both Cincy and Dayton so I think a rotor is a must if I choose to only install one antenna.

Here are my thoughts:

I think outside would work best but it does get pretty windy up there. Plus, the wife isn't thrilled with the ideas of "putting that thing" up on the roof. However, I want the best reception possible. I suppose a compromise would be to put the atenna in the attic and mount it so that I can put a rotor on it to move it as needed yet not have to worry about it in the weather, wind, etc.

Has anyone done anything like this? How much sigal loss do you think it would cause having it in the attic? (standard shingled roof, vinyl siding)

Thanks for the help!

based on my limited testing with the sensar 1000 - I lost about 1/2 of the signal when it was in the attic. I based this on the signal meter on the hughes htl-hd box - not that the hughes meter is an accurate portrayal of the true signal strength - but it was 1/2 what it was when it was outside.

jim

you'd get so much signal bounce in an attic the rotor may not buy you anything. my attic antenna is suspended by ropes & pulleys so I can swing it around from the opening without climbing in ;)

Studies have shown that placing the antenna indoors reduces signal strength by about 15-20db on average(That is a lot, more than the gain of most "hi-gain" antennas). Oftentimes, a spot near a window facing the towers can be your best bet from indoors. Also, everything within a few feet or so is, in effect "connected" to the antenna and becomes a part of it, changing its characteristics(VSWR for example), and increasing multipath(seen as ghosts on NTSC signals == i.e. "signal bounce" as psm mentioned). The materials your house is constructed of can also be a big factor, but asphalt shingles/Vinyl siding would be about the best you could hope for ... But, for instance -- Stucco contains a metal mesh which as you might guess, is NOT good for reception .. Some types of insulated Glass can also have an effect ... Electrical wiring/etc/etc is likely to have an effect as well ...

For a better explanation, Go here ( http://www.kyes.com/antenna/antennadex.html ) and see the "Attic Antennas - Why not? Section (under #4). Lots of other great antenna info at that link as well.

Now -- Again -- NOT to say an attic/indoor antenna wouldn't work for you -- It might work quite well (we have several folks in Dayton+Cincinnati that are much farther from the towers than you are receiving BOTH Dayton and Cincy from the attic or indoors), But, I wouldn't count on it ... And -- I'd guess Chances are very good you'll have to do a awful lot of "fiddling about" with the antenna -- Especially for Dayton .. Although, if you actually have enough space that the antenna can be rotated around in the attic, I'd think a rotor would make it somewhat easier ---But, still finding a "sweet spot"(moving antenna left or right, back or forth, up or down a few feet can make a BIG difference) where the antenna might work well may still be difficult, and one spot may work good for Cincy, and a different spot for Dayton .. Good idea to carry a small TV (or even better your STB) into the attic with you to see the effect of your adjustments ... ... although, keep in mind YOU are going to be a factor(multipath/etc) if your anywhere near the antenna as well ...

Oh -- If you do go outside -- DEFINITELY make sure you use a sturdy mount, as well as properly ground antenna(per NEC code mast+Coax must be grounded, rotor+control cable doesn't have to be grounded - Also per NEC The Antenna Ground must be bonded(properly - To your main A/C service ground). Under the "How I did it" section of link above is info on how one fellow installed his antenna in a "high wind" area ....

All in all .. If you want -- I'd say try it in the attic/indoors see what you get .. if it doesn't work well enough for you, then move the setup outside ..

any word on Bengals games in HD on CBS? I will be at the Sunday night and Monday night games and of course will tivo them in HD, but I can't wait to see an away game in HD. I think I read somewhere the Jets game opening week is not going to be in HD. Any links would be appreciated.

We only know the first two week's worth of CBS HD games. Doubt that CBS will work much farther forward than that. But a great place to go is the NFL Sunday Ticket schedule at directv.com. They're showing 2 CBS HD games each of the first two Sundays. There's nothing anywhere that indicates, for certain, that CBS will do 3 games the first two weeks.

However, ALL of ESPN's NFL should be in HD, and that includes the Bengals hosting Miami on week 2 (assuming a sellout). Then there's the Monday night game against Denver on October 25th. Again, we'd need a sellout. Dallas on November 7th and Giants on December 26th are FOX games, which would likely be in HD but would also require a sellout. Guess we'd better hope they get off to a great start, huh?

Edit: You might want to look at this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4252023#post4252023

Last Bengals game on TWC was not in HD :(
I was disapointed since I had to wait until 11:30pm to watch it.
At least the game itself was worth watching.... :)

Originally posted by Dimitriz
Last Bengals game on TWC was not in HD :(
I was disapointed since I had to wait until 11:30pm to watch it.
At least the game itself was worth watching.... :)

That's becuase it was a local origination not a CBS broadcast.

Sorry if this question has already been answered.

I'm in Independence KY (just south of Covington). I live in a single story home that is on top of a large hill. I can receive the local CBS (WKRC) & ABC (WCPO) in HD via my indoor amplified antenna. My goal is to be able to also receive NBC (WLWT) & FOX (WXIX) in HD.

Antennaweb.org reccomends that I get a medium sized directional antenna. My wife is less then thrilled over the idea of an antenna going up outside the house. My current indoor antenna yeilds no signal for WLWT & WXIX. I am contemplating installing an attic mounted antenna (similar to this: hxxp://dubadubaduba.fota.net/antenna/ (sorry but i can't post urls because i'm so new) ) Does anyone on this thread think I will get better results for WLWT & WXIX via the attic install? Is there anyone in my area that currently get WLWT & WXIX? If so, what antenna setup do you have?

thanks in advance
-Dean

I'm at Rt17 and Rt3035 in south Covington,also on top of a hill,and I use a CM3010 roof mounted.I used a Silver Sensor indoor for a while but I could not pick up WXIX.The 3010 might work for your application,it's listed as large md antenna.You should check their web site http://www.channelmaster.com/ it doesn't look like most antennas so maybe the wife wouldn't mind it.Good luck

Keep in mind that that if you are only interested in receiving DTV and not analog, you can use a UHF only antenna. Most good UHF antennas should pick up 10-1 without any problems, even though it is in the VHF band. This allows you to use an antenna with greater gain in less space than a VHF/UHF combo antenna. A channel Master 4228, or the smaller 3021/4221 bowties or the 3023/4028 Yagi would be good choices. You need to look at the size of you attic & attic access. Do you have enough space inside the attic to rotate the antenna to the proper direction? Outside is always better. You will loose at least 50% of you signal inside an attic. It will also increase the probability of ghosts which current STBs have a hard time handling.

6speed & ClarkeR, thanks for the responses.

6speed, it sounds like we are in the same subdivision (i'm in fowler ridge also @ 17 & 3035) I'll keep an eye out for your antenna on my way up the hill tonight :)

anyway, I got a free oldschool directional antenna off a buddies house last night. I guess one person's garbage really is another's gold :) It's probably about 20 years old. I'd have to assume it qualifies at least as a medium sized antenna. At it's widest point its span is almost 9 feet.

I hooked my newly acquired oldschool antenna up in the basement last night, it yeilds a little bit better reception than my amplified indoor (and that's through 8 inch thick concrete walls) but still no NBC (WLWT) or FOX (WXIX)

My next test will be to put it up in the back yard to see if I can at least get these channels on this antenna outside. Assuming success there, I plan on going into the attic with it. If I'm unsuccessful w/ the outdoor test, I assume my freebie antenna is useless and I will go buy the CM3010 that 6speed mentioned.

thanks
-Dean

Dean, I'm on Gribble about 5 houses from the top,but you can't see the antenna from the road(big part of the WAF!!)the 3010 or Stealthtenna is about 55"-60" at it's widest point,so I'd say at 9' across that antenna is a LD/LM,keep us posted.

Originally posted by ClarkeR
Keep in mind that that if you are only interested in receiving DTV and not analog, you can use a UHF only antenna. Most good UHF antennas should pick up 10-1 without any problems, even though it is in the VHF band.


It MIGHT work(for digital or analog), especially if you are in a strong signal area, but I wouldn't count on it. It doesn't matter how "good" a UHF antenna is, they are designed for UHF reception and have no gain to speak of on VHF frequencies -- In other words, a pair of rabbit ears, or a coat hanger will likely work as good, or better.

The reason why it DOES work sometimes is because the longer wavelengths of VHF (ch 2-6 = 54-88 MHZ, Ch 7-13= 174-216 MHZ) are generally easier to receive than is the case with UHF(ch 14-69 - 470-866 MHZ) ...

Originally posted by 6speed
the 3010 or Stealthtenna is about 55"-60" at it's widest point, so I'd say at 9' across that antenna is a LD/LM,keep us posted.


The antenna web ratings aren't really based on element length. A VHF/UHF combo(or rabbit ears extended for best results on Lo-VHF or FM) is generally 8-9' in width for reception of lo-VHF TV channels 2-6 -- becasue 8 Feet is approximpately 1/2 wavelength on Lo-VHF. For the most part, when it comes to an effective antenna design -- There really is no "old school"/new school"--- It's all about physics and, mostly 1/2 wavelength dipoles the length(s) of the frequencies the antenna is to be used for. It's a little more complicated than that, involving driven+reflector/director elements in broadband high-gain Yagi/Corner reflector and Log-peroidic antennas, but still all of those elements involved(and the folded dipoles used in UHF bowtie antennas) are usually pretty much all 1/2 wave dipoles for the frequencies the antenna will be used for ....

The CM3010 is very much a compromise in design to suit appearances. It is, performance wise, more or less a outdoor pair of a set of BOTH VHF AND UHF rabbit ears(with seperate VHF/UHF inputs on its internal circut board) ... The UHF section is especially weak, and consists solely of a single element, center fed 1/2 wave dipole cut for channel 17(12.5" -- Those two little pieces that stick out of very front of antenna a few inches on each side is ALL the CM3010 uses for UHF, most of the 12.5" is hid by the plastic casing, Everything "behind" those 2 little dinky pieces is connected to the VHF input on the circut board). This "design" really doesn't work too well on UHF, a Full wave UHF loop(remember those that used to come with your small TV's ?) would even work a bit better .... If you're in a strong signal area though, it can be "enough" on UHF, and for the most part probably work better than anything you could put indoors. VHF signal propagation being what it is, it's VHF section will probably suffice in most circumstances for reception of local VHF stations.

Well everything is up and running great. Here's what I did, I moved the antenna outside for some testing...I tuned my Samsung SIR-T151 (which i bought off ebay with no remote or manual) to channel 5 (where i expected the local NBC/WLWT to be) It returned no signal. I was dumbfounded...surely this huge antenna could pick up the signal? After screwing around with pointing the antenna and trying other channels for about 2 hours I was about to give up. Then I went to the "channels" menu on the receiver and had it scan the channels, suddenly on 5-1 WLWT HD showed up in addition to 19-1 FOX and about 15 other channels (most of which are pbs).

I took the antenna inside and laid it down on the basement floor and hooked everything back up, reception still works great with the antenna not even mounted to anything. If the antenna works laying on the ground in a 9 foot hole surrounded by concrete and steel I-beams, i'm sure it will work in the attic. I'll try to get everything installed in the attic over the weekend, in the meantime, I'm going to watch some Olympics in HD

Thanks to everyone in the forum for their help.

-Dean

Dean,

Just to be sure, you realize that all of the digital channels are actually on different frequencies from the analog channels. 5 is actually 35 and just remaps to 5 once your receiver finds it. Most of the other channels remap the same way.

Paul

Dean..

Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2726262#post2726262) is the list of who's where w/r/t actual channels around here, as Paul mentions. Or you can go to the beginning of this thread (it's the second post) From where you are, a small combo pointed roughly at the Carew tower ought to do it as that's kind of in the middle of all the stations. The big issue with attics aside from attenuation is multipath. EVERYthing reflects signal and attics are tough to deal with. You may find yourself moving the antenna all over the place to find the one sweet spot that gets everybody.

If you need any 151 help, let me know. Got the remote AND the manual. Pretty darn good receiver. I'm also a little versed in attic-mounted antennas. I have more aluminum in my attic than Budweiser has in St. Louis. And, if it rains this weekend, I'm installing some more.

Doc

Just wanted to follow up with everyone to let you know that the antenna is in the attic and everything is working great. (just in time for college football :))

Thanks again for all the help.

-Dean

Dean..

Of course, since your're on a hill, your next objective is to see if you can pick up Dayton <g>. 50, 51 and 41. Doubt you'll get 30 and 18. Always worth a try.

Doc

I checked for Dayton and 50, 51, 41 did show up. Here's a list of all the channels my antenna picks up:

2-1 Dayton - ABC
2-2 Dayton - ABC
5-1 Cinci - NBC
9-1 Cinci - ABC
9-2 Cinci - ABC
12-1 Cinci - CBS
14-2 Cinci - PBS
14-3 Cinci - PBS
14-4 Cinci - PBS
14-5 Cinci - PBS
14-6 Cinci - PBS
16-3 Dayton - PBS
16-4 Dayton - PBS
16-5 Dayton - PBS
16-6 Dayton - PBS
19-1 Cinci - FOX
41-1 Dayton - CBS
41-2 Dayton - CBS
48-2 Cinci - PBS
48-3 Cinci - PBS
48-4 Cinci - PBS
48-5 Cinci - PBS
51-1 Dayton - NBC
51-2 Dayton - NBC
54-1 KY - PBS
54-2 KY - PBS
54-3 KY - PBS
54-4 KY - PBS
54-5 KY - PBS
54-6 KY - PBS
64-1 Cinci - WB

I took some pictures (http://www.dynodev.com/antenna/) of where the antenna is in the attic...i'm sure you will get a kick out of it! Rather than use the traditional method of actually mounting the antenna to a mast or anything like that, I opted to just wedge the thing in between the 2x4's. It's so big I could hardly get it to open all the way as is. I know it is about as ghetto as you can get but it gets the job done :)

-Dean

You should see mine. Every one of them is held in place by string and bungee cords.

Good to see you can get Dayton. You'll find it comes in handy when one of the Cincy affiliates misses switching to HD or the dreaded "school closing list" forces them to 4:3 for the night.

Originally posted by deanhuff
I took some pictures (http://www.dynodev.com/antenna/) of where the antenna is in the attic...i'm sure you will get a kick out of it! Rather than use the traditional method of actually mounting the antenna to a mast or anything like that, I opted to just wedge the thing in between the 2x4's. It's so big I could hardly get it to open all the way as is.
-Dean

Nice pics Dean! FYI, that thing is dinky, about as small as you can get with a well designed VHF/UHF combo. The boom length on a Large VHF/UHF combo is generally in the range of 12~17 feet ...

Any word from WXIX-DT ??

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=439520

Also - anyone know why WKRC-DT decided not to show Tomorrow Never Dies last night?

jim

anyone catch mnf last night on wcpo-dt? looked better than last week - but still had some jaggies on the slow panning scenes.

jim

well.. I think I am going to try and pull in the dayton stations too .. I was on the ladder over the weekend and the dayton stuff came in very well with my sensar - here is my question, i can get another sensar for $30 - how would two sensars stacked ontop of one another work? will they interfere with each other? currently its mounted on a dss mount and there is enough room to add a second one - they would end up being about 1" apart. Any thoughts? I looked into a rotor - but they are at least $60 or more.. so this along with an a/b switch may be a cheaper / eaisier solution. thanks

jim

Jim,

1" (I assume you mean 1 '(foot) spacing which generally isn't a good idea, although it might not cause you any problems, its hard to say ..... For best results, Space the antennas about 4-6 feet+ apart. "Theoretically" you want them spaced a full wavelength apart for the lowest frequency you'll be using, but, 4-6 feet or so usually works without the antennas affecting each other - 6 feet or so does give you more than a full wavelentgth spacing on Hi-VHF(ch 7-13), but not even a 1/2 wavelentgth on VHF 2. since a full wavelength on Ch 2 is about 16 feet long, spacing antennas at 16 feet apart on a mast is not very practical, and even "purists" often use 1/2 wavelength(8 feet apart) for ch 2/lovhf reception. Anyhow, FWIW, I have my Dayton VHF+UHF and Cincinnati and otherwise antenna w/rotor) antennas between 4~6 feet apart with no problems, even on Lo-VHF. Such as the Lo-VHF analogs I receive 365+24/7 : WDTN 2 analog, WAVE 3 Lousiville, WCMH 4 Columbus, WLWT 5 Cincinnati ....

Otherwise, As long as you run seperate feedlines from each antenna to the A/B switch before receiver the antennas won't really "interfere" with each other .... Combining them onto the same feedline however(which only works if you are "stacking"(i.e. making an array of identical antennas aimed in same direction) is a "no-no", and puts the antennas out of phase(increasing multipath among other things) ...

I would also guess you might also want to go with something a little better than the Sensar for Dayton .. Currently, all of the Dayton Digitals are on UHF. Just a guess, but WHIO is probably the only one that will move back to VHF (7) after analog shut off - Then again, who knows what LP+Class A stations/or "new" stations may do if some VHF channels becoming open after analog shut off. So, a well designed UHF antenna(more gain than a VHF/UHF combo, smaller as well) such as CM4221/CM4228/etc. would probably be an excellent choice for you, currently for the Dayton digitals .... If necesary in the future, you could always add a VHF antenna(with a VHF/UHF combiner, which DOES let you combine seperate VHF/UHF antennas onto the same feedline) ....

Anyhow ... In addition to being less expensive, a A/B switch is much more convienant than a rotor IMO as well when you have stations in two directions.. RS even has a remote control A/B switch ... I feed several TV's and devices in several different rooms here from either both antennas or one or the other, and use several A/B switches )(I still like the seperate antenna inputs+the A/B switch on the DTC-100's remote, though).... Yeah, you have to run a 2nd feedline for the 2nd antenna, but you'd have to run a rotor control cable ANYWAY ... The only stations in Dayton/Cincinnati area(besides one Dayton LP station) that would be a third direction from you would be WKOI/WKOI-DT(TBN)(Tower between Oxford and Middletown), and WPTO 14 ANALOG(digital currently on WXIX tower) .....

Anyway, Here's a list of the Dayton Digitals, in case it helps :

WBDT-DT 18 (26-1 remap) - WB Dayton (480i 4x3 SD only currently) .. They are currently licensed for 35KW ERP "full power"(non-directional antenna), which is probably a good thing currently considering the strong signal WLEX 18, Lexington, KY often puts in up this way ... .... I haven't talked to them in a while -- But, in Fall 2003, they did say that although they didn't have a "timeline" for when they would offer WB HD, at that time they were looking at equipment and DID plan to offer WB HD at some point ... That could have changed though, of course. ...

WRGT-DT 30-1 (No remap) - Fox Dayton - 720p/Splicer installed/HD-ready(but, I don't think the splicer is on line yet -- as of last night anyway) 30-2 - Usually 480i 4x3 SD simulcast of analog WRGT 45, last couple of days though 30-2 has been Blank ... Note that the coverage pattern for them shown on FCC site does not favor the south ...

WHIO-DT 41-1 (no remap) - CBS Dayton - 1080i - They DID have the Pats/Panthers game in HD sat night BTW, and (I think) the movie on Sun night ... 41-2 - 480i 4x3 SD subchannel - Simulcast of analog

WDTN-DT 50 (2-1 remap) - NBC Dayton - 1080i - DD 5.1 - They just switched affiliations from ABC to NBC Yesterday (and had Olympics Closing Ceremonies in HD+DD 5.1 yesterday morning)... 2-2 - 480i 4x3 SD subchannel(simulcast of analog)

WKEF-DT 51-1 (No remap) - ABC Dayton - 720p - Just switched affiliations from NBC yesterday ... : 51-2 - 480i 4x3 SD simulcast of analog ..

WPTD-DT 58 (16-x remap) PBS/ThinkTV Dayton :

16-2 - Think16 (SD simulcast of analog WPTD 16 up 24/7)
16-3 - "Think again" SD (Repeat schedule of think16 programming up 24/7)
16-4 - PBS Kids SD" (blank during HD)
16-5 - Ohio Channel (SD - Blank during HD)
16-6 - PBS HD Channel, Nightly 6pm~6am

WXIX Update,

There were some mounting problems so dish will not be completed until next Thursday at the earliest. The FOX splicer has been installed in the station but they have been unable to have it make a smooth transition between their signal and the network 720p signal. Hopefully it will all be ready for next weeks rollout.

While we're updating, a quick reminder: no HD fireworks, this weekend.

Originally posted by DrDon
While we're updating, a quick reminder: no HD fireworks, this weekend.

Hmmm., wont other stations broadcast in HD?
I remeber watching some a year or 2 ago on HD.... dont remember what station was broadcasting them though.

WKRC has broadcast the WEBN fireworks in HD for a few years. Not this year. Being Clear Channel, they have exclusive rights to the event, so I don't think any of the other local stations could broadcast the fireworks (in any format) even if they wanted to.

any word why no hd when they have done it in the past?

There either aren't enough trucks available, thanks to the increased number of HD sporting events around the country, or it's a budget thing. I tend to think it's the latter.

WEBN's website says:

"Television Coverage
If you can’t make it down to the river, catch the fun of the Toyota/WEBN Fireworks on 12 WKRC-TV. 12 News anchors Rob Braun, Kit Andrews and Chief Meteorologist Tim Hedrick will have special coverage and previews from 8-10 p.m. on Sunday, September 5."

Guess I wasn't clear. WKRC will still carry the fireworks.. just not in HD. Sorry.

Thanks for the update Dimitriz - Do the dish and splicer go hand in hand with one another or can they at least bring the splicer up to test? Man I hope this takes care of the jitter they have on 19-1.

Originally posted by Dimitriz
WXIX Update,

There were some mounting problems so dish will not be completed until next Thursday at the earliest. The FOX splicer has been installed in the station but they have been unable to have it make a smooth transition between their signal and the network 720p signal. Hopefully it will all be ready for next weeks rollout.

Originally posted by DrDon
Guess I wasn't clear. WKRC will still carry the fireworks.. just not in HD. Sorry.


Ahhh, In that case they will get a "nice" e-mail from me. :cool:

Originally posted by jim tressler
Thanks for the update Dimitriz - Do the dish and splicer go hand in hand with one another or can they at least bring the splicer up to test? Man I hope this takes care of the jitter they have on 19-1.

I really have no clue, but I assume that the jitter problems are the ones started popping up after they installed the splicer... it did start up around the same time they put new equipment in.

well I for one am glad that I am not the only person seeing the jitter :)

Originally posted by jim tressler
well I for one am glad that I am not the only person seeing the jitter :)

I havent seen it. :) hehehe, j.k...

My TV has OTA receiver or I can plug my TWC to get HD content.
The OTA SS that I uses gets to many ups/downs to watch so I havent been watching much of their WS stuff..., but I can check it out tonight. I did notice some waves while watching SD through TWC the other night.

FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 3
Indianapolis @ Cincinnati,
Preseason Game 4
7:30 p.m. ET

TV: Live in Columbus (WWHO-TV Channel 53) and Louisville (WFTE-TV Channel 58); Tape-delayed at 11:30 p.m. in Cincinnati (WKRC-TV Local 12), Dayton (WRGT-TV Channel 45, WKEF-TV Channel 22) and Lexington (WTVQ-TV Channel 36).

Anyone knows what is the deal with Tape-Delayed games?

It's not sold out. You'll find the regular-season not-sold-out home games don't air in these markets, either. Probably not in Columbus, either. But, since the preseason television deals are handled by the team and not the NFL, there are going to be some differences.

the bengals and browns compete for time in columbus - if the bengals are not sold out, i believe they are not blacked out in columbus

Just noticed from my recording that This "fun(but completely wrong - Calling a Upconvert HD is a little more than just stretching things a little IMO)" "fact" appeared on the screen from WKRC-DT 31 this evening just after 8:30pm before the (completely SD, completely 4x3 as we already knew) fireworks :

lol ... I thought the fireworks looked awfull last night on wkrc-dt

So the fireworks were shot on SD equipment and stretched and upconverted for airing? We watched them Sunday night and I nearly had my wife convinced it was time to spend the additional $$$ for the HD receiver, but that would seriously damage the case (of course, she doesn't need to know ;)).

Hehehe.., I turned off my TV about 5min into the fireworks....
I have a 65" WS and you all can imagine the crappy piture that I saw.... :(
Thought it was not worth our time to look at a bunched up faded colors.

Can't even find any of their Contact e-mails to send them my "nice" e-mail. :(
I think they read this forum and took it down.. hehe

You can check out http://cincinnatihdtv.com. I have some contact information for the local stations on there.

Hi,

Does anyone know if the Bengals Sunday night game against Miami will be in HD? I noticed WCPO is carrying the game apparently, and am curious if the ESPNHD will be blacked out locally because of this. I searched thru the thread and no one has mentioned anything about this game. Thanks!

Lee

The game will be in HD on ESPN-HD and will not be blacked out (unless it isn't sold out, in which case it'll be blacked out on both). It will not be HD on WCPO-DT.

Thanks DrDon....was having people over to watch it in HD, and someone at work said it was on WCPO cause it sold out and it would be blacked out on ESPNHD because of this. Glad to hear it shouldn't be! Thanks again!

ABC affiliates can simulcast ESPN games of their home NFL teams. That simulcast does not black out ESPN, since ESPN has the primary rights to the game. That's different from a baseball game on a night when Fox Sports Ohio has primary rights, but ESPN is carrying the game. In cases such as that, ESPN would be blacked out. Complicated, but after a dozen years of trying to figure it all out, I think I finally have it. ;)

mike - great site - I have posted a few times over there, hopefully more people will catch on to it!

jim


Originally posted by zekyl
You can check out http://cincinnatihdtv.com. I have some contact information for the local stations on there.

any update on WXIX-DT? I know they were supposed to have the dish installed today.. hopefully :)

The only "update" I know of is that they left the picture stretched and did not take the Fox Digital widescreen feed, last night. Could be the MCO is on vacation, could be nothing.

Thanks Jim. I try and tell as many people as I know about it. It is still a work in progress, but what website project isn't?

Originally posted by jim tressler
mike - great site - I have posted a few times over there, hopefully more people will catch on to it!

jim

Is it just me or is the Thursday NIght football kickoff on ABC not in HD?? So far the pre-game show isn't... I am going to be very disappointed if it doesn't kick in by game time...

Originally posted by DrDon
The only "update" I know of is that they left the picture stretched and did not take the Fox Digital widescreen feed, last night. Could be the MCO is on vacation, could be nothing.




I noticed that the Channel ID has changed from 480p to 720p. It could be they are testing the splicer system before the dish is online.

Originally posted by jspicoli
Is it just me or is the Thursday NIght football kickoff on ABC not in HD?? So far the pre-game show isn't... I am going to be very disappointed if it doesn't kick in by game time...

Are you getting SD on WCPO?

I'm in Dayton and have WKEF on. WKEF has been missing HD a lot lately, so I'll give them a call if we have no HD at game time.

WXIX appears to have the splicer online. That, or fox has REALLY changed its widescreen logo.

big props to wxix.. now my hughes shows 720p and NO JITTER!!! YEAH!!!! - but still dd 2.0 .. I can live with that for now - just as long as the jitter stays away!!!

wcpo-dt is hd - although there are a lot of jaggies

Originally posted by DrDon
WXIX appears to have the splicer online. That, or fox has REALLY changed its widescreen logo.

Well, it finally happened .... there's finally a fix for "weirdscreen" from xix' <g> Fox Discontinued the Fox WS feed -- last night was the LAST night for Fox WS (see here : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4314362#post4314362 or here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444167 )

Originally posted by jim tressler
wcpo-dt is hd - although there are a lot of jaggies

Weird -- I've never seen the jaggies on WCPO-DT HD before tonight, but then again I haven't had time to watch much TV lately .. You can even see the jaggies on WCPO-DT in the score bug in upper rh corner ... The jaggies are NOT there on WKEF-DT during MNF HD tonight.. Easy to see the difference in the yellow circle around the "ABC" ...

I did notice tonight around 10:18pm that they briefly inserted a WCPO 9 bug(not the old WCPO-DT 10 bug they used to insert 2x per hour before the studio move), first time I've seen them do that since the move to the new studios, although again I haven't been watching much lately ...

Originally posted by jim tressler
but still dd 2.0 DD 5.1 during network programming on my system.

Ok...now I need TWC to pick up the Fox 19 feed.

Anybody have any info on this?

Originally posted by CincySaint
Ok...now I need TWC to pick up the Fox 19 feed.

Anybody have any info on this? It's in the works.

Originally posted by DrDon
It's in the works.

Sweet!, just want I needed to hear. My OTA reception to them sucks a big one... either new antenna or TWC.... :)

Got reply from Ch.12 on HD fireworks... :)


Dimitri:

Thank you for your email. I am sorry I was not able to respond sooner, but I just returned from a week of travel...

We, too, were disappointed that we were unable to broadcast the fireworks in HD this year; it is hard to imagine a better HD programming "opportunity" than the Riverfest Fireworks!

Unfortunately, extraordinary budget demands made it difficult -- this year -- to produce an HD telecast. However, we are currently exploring other options for next year that we hope will allow us to resume our HD telecasts.

I am sorry that you were disappointed. If we could have, we would have! But I can assure you that we are making every effort to resume our HD telecasts in 2005.

Thanks for the feedback. We greatly value the comments of our viewers.

Your sincerely,

Chris Sehring

Doc,

Did your system show 5.1 last night during foxes "crazy videos with the hot host with the cleavage show?"

Mine shows it as dolby digital, but the 2.0 pro logic version - which technically is digital but not true 5.1. - I have an onkyo 600

thanks

jim

Originally posted by DrDon
DD 5.1 during network programming on my system.

i am glad I am not the only one seeing jaggies - I will definatly get the 2nd antenna up to get the dayton stations!

jim

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Weird -- I've never seen the jaggies on WCPO-DT HD before tonight, but then again I haven't had time to watch much TV lately .. You can even see the jaggies on WCPO-DT in the score bug in upper rh corner ... The jaggies are NOT there on WKEF-DT during MNF HD tonight.. Easy to see the difference in the yellow circle around the "ABC" ...

I did notice tonight around 10:18pm that they briefly inserted a WCPO 9 bug(not the old WCPO-DT 10 bug they used to insert 2x per hour before the studio move), first time I've seen them do that since the move to the new studios, although again I haven't been watching much lately ...

Jim..

Well, I certainly THOUGHT I saw all the lights lit, but I didn't have my glasses on. I'll check it again, tonight. The Panasonic has a red lamp that signifies digital, then lights up each speaker involved. I could see L, R, and C, but need the glasses to make out the rears (which had sound, but they always do unless it's just plain mono).

There is some pretty good news about DirectTV over the next few years. They are going to launch some satellites to allow for more HD channels. Read the full report over at www.cincinnatihdtv.com on the main page or DirecTV forum.

well.. I just flipped to complex malibu or something on wxix-dt - and it is in 5.1 (not much out of the surrounds) but the reciever is decoding dd 5.1 - thats good news.. although the fox bug is really messed up - half of it is missing!

lol

jim

Originally posted by DrDon
Jim..

Well, I certainly THOUGHT I saw all the lights lit, but I didn't have my glasses on. I'll check it again, tonight. The Panasonic has a red lamp that signifies digital, then lights up each speaker involved. I could see L, R, and C, but need the glasses to make out the rears (which had sound, but they always do unless it's just plain mono).

Originally posted by jim tressler
although the fox bug is really messed up - half of it is missing!
Hey, it wouldn't be WXIX-DT if something wasn't messed up :). Last night, the "bug" such as it is (it's the default bug in the splicer that's supposed to be replaced by each station's custom bug.. WXIX probably wanted that color bug which may not be an option) was in an annoying spot in the picture. Don't know if Fox moves the bug or the local station does. Judging from the fact it stayed messed up all night, I'd guess it's the local station.

And, yeah, with my glasses, it's 5.1. <g>

I'm not positive, but I thought I had read Fox has control of the local bug via the splicer, including bug placement -- Anyway ... The local Fox 45 Splicer bug on WRGT-DT is in the same place, but it is smaller than the Default "fox" bug on WXIX-DT last night. The Fox 45 Bug on WRGT-DT BTW, is Blue+White, pretty much the same as it is on the analog, it just looks "smaller" ...

As for part of it being cut off, I'd think that would depend upon how much overscan is present on your display. Looks to me like the "splicer" bug is now being placed in about the same spot As was the Fox bug on the WS feed prior to Fall 2002(except maybe its a bit lower), before it "moved" into the 4x3 area ..

Also, I'm noticing(still, presently) that since they switched back to local from network last night, A/V sync has been off here on WXIX, on the Zenith Box anyway, I haven't had a chance to check the RCA yet -- anyone else getting(or not getting) that?

Originally posted by Nitewatchman

Also, I'm noticing(still, presently) that since they switched back to local from network last night, A/V sync has been off here on WXIX, on the Zenith Box anyway, I haven't had a chance to check the RCA yet -- anyone else getting(or not getting) that?


The sync problem is evident on my Zenth TV /receiver as well and it seems to effect the local programming. Fox network is ok. It started last evening at 10:00PM.

Just checked real quick, and A/V sync on XIX-DT is off on the DTC-100 as well, so I assume everyone is getting it ...

---------------

Oh ..I almost forgot this bit of very good news ... For those who don't read Dayton thread ... According to this post from a couple of weeks ago, ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4279399#post4279399 ) on Dayton thread, it looks like WSTR-DT (WB 64 Cincinnati) is planning on having WB HD in "1 or 2 months" ....

Yeah, the synch on XIX has been off since 10pm. 513-421-0119 gets you the newsroom if anyone cares to call. If they seem confused, tell them to tell the MCO to reboot the encoder. Since it's both local and network, then that's where the issue is. I called at 2:45p (9/11). Someone needs to follow me up so they know more than one person is viewing.


Jeff..
I do have some overscan, and yes it is in about the same place as the widescreen bug from a year or so ago. I get FO and half of the X. FWIW, the Samsung hooked to my standard TV loses about the same amount in Letterbox mode. And, if I split-screen the HDTV (which removes all overscan in any window) I still lose the bottom part of the letters and a third of the X. Which is fine by me.

Thanks Doc -- A/V sync appears to be fixed last time I peeked(3:40pm) on WXIX-DT ... Hope it doesn't confuse their encoder TOO often when they go from the Splicer/net to local ... Then again, since we don't have the weirdscreen anymore, we need to have SOMETHING to pester them about I suppose ..

And, Yeah, I think they're going a little outside what should be considered the "safe title area" with the Bug ... Since its a bit smaller(about the size of WPTO-DT/WPTD-DT's 14 HD/16 HD bugs), and therefore a bit less width than what was on xix-DT last night(and apparently "left justified" so to speak), WRGT-DT's splicer bug had the right edge of the "45" about in the same spot as the middle of the "O" that was on on WXIX last night ... OF course, they could move entire thing to the Right of the 0% overscan area, and I'd be fine with that too ;)

Oh ... Speaking of WPTO-DT ... I have noticed they've had time delayed PBS HD on 14-6(psip remapped) Weekend evenings the last few weeks, BUT there has been No Audio ...

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Oh ... Speaking of WPTO-DT ... I have noticed they've had time delayed PBS HD on 14-6(psip remapped) Weekend evenings the last few weeks, BUT there has been No Audio ...



WCET-DT48-1 has been missing for the last few nights. Is it me or does it seem to go away when the PBS pledge breaks start every few months? I wonder if its planned that way.

At first I thought we weren't going to have FOX HD this Sunday, because 19 had color bars on. It switched around 12:15 and now I am receiving the FOX programing, but it appears to still be WS upconverted to 720p. Hopefully the game will use HD cameras. I also noticed that FOX 45 Dayton is just showing a stretched out analog picture.

If the game's not in HD on WXIX, the number to call is 513-421-0119. I've got Ticket, so you're on your own, this week <G>.

Doc

I was concerned there for a bit (especially since WRGT-DT has had stretch-o-vision with the same video feeding the analog since last night, even during Fox programming AND the last bit of pregame on Xix-DT was "stretch-o-vision" too) ...

BUT ... At 1:04pm both WRGT-DT/WXIX-DT have HD from the splicer up in proper AR! Of course, the first bit of Fox HD I saw had to be Collinsworth ...

No time to look at the PQ too closely, as it's to the Bengals game for me!

Originally posted by microbob
WCET-DT48-1 has been missing for the last few nights.

It looks like this time around they are having a PSIP issue. I'm getting CET-HD just fine on the RCA DTC-100 with channel remapping/psip turned OFF on it on 34-1, but, CET-HD(48.1) is not showing up in any fashion on the Zenith HDV420 box, on which unfortunetly I can't turn PSIP off ...

Still no audio tonight for the HD on WPTO-DT, BTW ...

Guess I'm not quite done contacting the stations this weekend ...

---------

On Fox HD+the splicer .. interestingly enough, noticed that EIA-708 Closed Captions are coming through just fine on the zenith box here via the splicer on WRGT-DT Dayton(otherwise WRGT-DT has never sent EIA-708 captions that work with HDV420), but not on WXIX-DT(which also has never done EIA-708 captions that work with HDV420) -- Go figure ..

Also .. It was interesting to check out 30-2(SD) occasionally on WRGT-DT today-- During the HD football, it was so low bitrate most of the time, it looked worse than video via a dialup modem, but, during the simpsons it was just fine(as SD goes anyway) .. On the other hand, I couldn' tell a difference in the HD PQ between WRGT-DT/WXIX-DT (as it should be given the way the splicer+the encoding at network level "works").... Which I thought looked quite good for the first day of Fox HD, especially for the Cowboys/Vikings game ...

Head on over to www.cincinnatihdtv.com to read some news about TWC in the forums. Thanks go out to Grazant for this info.

What's your source for this info?

Well a quick call to TWC confirmed it as well as looking on google. Columbus TWC already has ESPN-HD as of this weekend. I have a co-worker who went up to friends in Columbus and he said they watched it on Sunday night as well.

Just got home and checked the on-screen guide, channel 975 says ESPNHD!!!!

WHOOOO 975 could this be better than Christmas I just looked 2 seconds ago and saw it ESPN-HD I think hell has frozen over go TWC you rock. Now all those hate mails we sent we need to send some thanks to TWC to getting this channel on in just three days after the contract was signed. Pinch me I think I am dreaming!!!!

Yea, I was thinking that as well, about sending an nice email thanking them. Now if we can just get FOX when it become available. :)

Yes, ESPN-HD on ch 975 is cool!

Now what do we know about WXIX -HD on TWC? We're already one week into the NFL season...

I understand that TW says they'll add ch 19 when they go HD. All right, when is that? I thought WXIX was one of the pioneers of all the Fox networks

Unbelievable!!!!! Woohoo!!!!!

I guess now I'll keep the HD Tier after all.:) Now if get just get the HD PVR...

When we get Fox 19, we'll be loaded for football. And yes, let's all send TWC a nice email.

Different subject...

Channel 9 is carrying the Bengals game on Sunday (due to regulations requiring the game to be shown on free TV). Anybody know if they will have the HD feed?

Originally posted by Sea Ray
I understand that TW says they'll add ch 19 when they go HD. All right, when is that? I thought WXIX was one of the pioneers of all the Fox networks Cable carriage is a priority with WXIX management, that much I know for certain. I also know that initial attempts to "join the HD tiers" was met with resistance from TW and Insight due to the fact FOX didn't do HD. Actually getting the HD online with WXIX-DT seemed to be a bit unpredictable, at best, so I doubt WXIX was able to give cable a firm date. Even if a carriage deal was already done pending Fox's move to HD, it'll still take time to get the fiber lines and install the gear. I would imagine both cable companies were/are operating on a "we'll believe it when we see it" stance, which means nothing was done in advance. Assuming nothing's changed w/r/t WXIX's mgt, then it's just a matter of the cable companies getting with the program, so to speak. I'm sure a call or some mail would make for a friendly nudge. But I'd bet dinner there's zero resistance on WXIX's end. Speculation from my end: Best case is two weeks. Worst case (assuming all parties have agreements) is two months.
Originally posted by CincySaint
Different subject...Channel 9 is carrying the Bengals game on Sunday (due to regulations requiring the game to be shown on free TV). Anybody know if they will have the HD feed? I'm 99% sure they won't. I don't think ESPN allows ABC affiliates to carry the HD version. Even if they did, I rather doubt WCPO would shell out $15K for the ESPN-HD receiving equipment for a one-time thing before shelling out the $$ for DD 5.1. Plus, the ESPN-HD feed won't be blacked out since ABC affiliate carriage of ESPN programming is a simulcast deal.

Oh, and not to beat a dead horse, but the newsroom number for WCPO is 513-852-4071. As usual, I was the only one who called when they didn't have HD for MNF. What are you guys going to do if I get hit by lightening (a serious possibility <g>)?

I don't know about local, but it looks like ESPN will broadcast it in HD. http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index is their schedule.

Don, am I correct in assuming that WXIX still is not broadcasting in HD? In other words are the OTA customers getting HD from ch 19 yet?

WXIX-DT is HD - this weekends games looked fantastic.. WCPO-DT on the other hand looked like crap last night - jaggies all over - especially on the score bug. Dont get me wrong - it looked damn good, but compared to CBS and now FOX - it was garbage. Thanks for calling Doc - I tuned in at 9:15 so you must have allready called! - Now on to WKRC-DT - I am assuming they pass on the HD feed for NFL - so I wont have to bitch this sunday as the Browns-Cowboys game is in HD for CBS and is listed in the guide for channel 12. I also must admit I am impressed with WXIX-DT - fot all the complaining I did, they got their act together. Hats of to them (for now)

jim

Oh, and not to beat a dead horse, but the newsroom number for WCPO is 513-852-4071. As usual, I was the only one who called when they didn't have HD for MNF. What are you guys going to do if I get hit by lightening (a serious possibility <g> )?

Sorry, I was too busy calling the WKEF newsroom for the same reason.

1450khz..

Too funny. Had WKEF been HD, I probably wouldn't have called up WCPO. Jim's right, there's far more jaggies on WCPO than WKEF with 720p video. It almost looks like it used to when they were upconverting to 1080i. I'm clueless.

WXIX is, indeed, HD, and kudos to them for getting it done right at the wire. And big kudos to Jim for staying on them.

The football game looked as good as any of the FOX-HD games on Sunday Ticket. Not as good as the CBS or ABC games, but they're just getting started. I'm sure tweaks are coming.

OK, good for WXIX for getting their HD stuff together in time for football season. Now I get to sit on TWC to add WXIX-DT.

Thanks guys

Too funny. Had WKEF been HD, I probably wouldn't have called up WCPO. Jim's right, there's far more jaggies on WCPO than WKEF with 720p video. It almost looks like it used to when they were upconverting to 1080i. I'm clueless.

WKEF has been very responsive to phone calls. Both times I've called, they've switched to HD within about 30 seconds after the newsroom guy gets off the phone with me. They remembered for last Thursday's game but forgot last night's.

Their PQ looks as good as WDTN did (maybe a little better since the frame jitter up/down is gone), but unfortunately WKEF does not have DD 5.1 capability.

Here is a copy of an email I sent to WCPO

"Hello - I have noticed on the last two Monday Night HD
telecasts there has been a fair amount of "jagginess"
and fuzzy graphics on the WCPO-DT OTA broadcasts.
Thinking this was an ABC network issue I compared the
WCPO-DT with WKEF-DT out of Dayton and their picture
was excellent. In searching the internet I found this
-

"The picture, graphics an all, going out of focus
momentarily is a local problem with stations that use
the Harris flexicoder compressor. I am not talking
about pixelization, which has other causes, just an
out of focus picture. The Flexicoder was installed by
most if not all bigger market stations because it was
I believe the only thing available back in 1999 when
they went on the air with HD.

The problem can be corrected by changing a filtering
setting in the compressor. The filter setting that
causes the problem lets the compressor reduce the
picture resolution if it is stressed which only seems
to happen in live sporting events. Even if a local
station changed the setting to fix the problem in the
past it can recur if the station recalled another
configuration file that does not have the filter
setting change.

There is information on the ABC a-net web site
available to engineering people at affiliates about
contacting someone at the network about correcting the
problem. I vaguely think it involves changing the
filter setting from 1 to 2 but am not sure about that.

Rory at KXTV
Sacramento"

Hopefully this will help with the "jaggie" issue
WCPO-DT is having during MNF.

Thanks for providing a great OTA digital channel.

Jim Tressler
"

Please get D*, and a good antenna, and you don't have to woory about cable companies carrying the digital feed. I will tivo the ESPNHD game Sunday evening while I am sitting five rows from the field.
LIVE IS GOOD IN HD.

Jim..

Nice letter.

Doc

WCPO and WKEF were late with the HD last night, so at 9:01 my call went into WCPO, thankfully they listened. I didn't see the "jaggies" that you guys are talking about, I was too busy watching Green run all over the Carolina Defense. Sometime this week I plan on writing WCPO about the 5.1 sound, Fox on Sunday sounded excellent. I also noticed some breakups last night on WCPO, but maybe that was just me, my tv has been acting up. I also noticed that WXIX is a little slow on the switch for HD and the audio was just a loud, high-pitched test sound. The FOX logo is way too big and they don't have it set for very much overscan.

GO GREEN BAY!

The test tone has been present on WXIX-DT/Fox network since 8PM and is still there. Must be local problem with the splicer system as the audio on the analog is good.

Update, As of 9:15PM the audio was fixed.

I am going to be moving to Amelia in a few months and was wondering how Adelphia's HD service is. I am currently getting my locals OTA and was wondering if Adelphia delivers high resolution HD or if it overly compressed. I can still return my antenna and receiver and I want to make the best decision.

An added bonus is a HD DVR for $5 more a month!

Thanks

Oliwa, check out www.cincinnatihdtv.com there are some posts in the forums about Adelphia.

Awesome site, thanks a lot!

Check this article out..

http://news.com.com/Tuning+up+for+HDTV/2100-1041_3-5366749.html?tag=cd.top

I found this interesting

"To encourage the transition, the FCC has adopted new rules, including deadlines for manufacturers to incorporate cable card slots into new television sets; for shutting off over-the-air programming for broadcasters; and broadcast flags for content protection.

Now the FCC must figure out a time frame to mandate that over-the-air broadcasts must be turned off, clearing the way to auction the spectrum. The latest proposal is to have 85 percent of households using digital television by Jan. 1, 2009. The previous deadline was January 2007, but that has been determined to be too early. "


Do they mean totally removing OTA broadscasts?? Thats what it sounds like. I was under the impression that the VHF band was going away.. Any thoughts?

jim

Jim..

They're talking about analog, not digital. The part of the spectrum being auctioned off is from ch 60 on up. THOSE are the frequencies where all television broadcasting must cease.

Doc

ok.. glad I got that cleared up- that article is a little misleading! I will be royally pissed if my ota goes away and I have to rely on cable or sat to deliver locals in HD

does channel 12 do a good job of passing on the hdtv football feeds? The Browns play at 4 on sunday and ch12 is carrying the game - so I will be blacked out of the hd sunday ticket feed...

thanks

jim

You'll have to ask weasel ;). Last year, they overdid it, giving us the HD game when they weren't supposed to. I would keep the newsroom number handy just in case.

I saw this question asked, but I missed the answer. Will the Bengals/Dolphins game on Ch9 this Sunday be in HD? If not, I need to do a short term sign up for DirectTVs HD package to see it on ESPN HD.

ItzMe

Short answer, no. Reason: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4346275#post4346275

Thanks for pointing that out, Don. I wonder what DirectTV will charge me to go online and subscribe to their HD package on Sunday, and cancel it on Monday ;)

Doc, do you happen to have the number handy?

itzme - the hd package is free for 6 months - I think you have to agree to 1 year though.. but if its like the premiums its no problem if you add and drop it the same weekend. I do it with hbo and sho all the time - just go to the website and fire away.


jim

Originally posted by jim tressler
Doc, do you happen to have the number handy? You must be kidding. Of COURSE I do :D It's either (513) 421-6872 or (513) 763-5422 although, I think last time I dialed the main number and went through the phone tree.

Originally posted by jim tressler
does channel 12 do a good job of passing on the hdtv football feeds? The Browns play at 4 on sunday and ch12 is carrying the game - so I will be blacked out of the hd sunday ticket feed...
If you mean "good" as in quality, the Saturday Florida/Tennessee game looked pretty good. I just picked up a FusionHDTV III and ... wow.

SEC/NFL HD football from CBS definetly has that Eye-popping, "Is this TV or am I looking out of a window" look from WKRC-DT THIS year ...

yep.. looks damn good.. props to wkrc... just keep it going for tomorrows browns game!

I Know ESPN-HD had a Bengals game in HD last year, and ESPN-HD tomorrow night -- But, I don't think there has been a OTA HD Bengals game yet, there certianly hasn't been one yet here .... So -- I wonder which net will be the first to send us the FIRST OTA HD bengals game ... I suppose we'll find out fairly soon whether it will be CBS :

10/3 - @ Pittsburg ...
10/17 @ Cleveland ...

Or ABC on 10/25 -- Surely it's soldout, so HD for this one from MNF should be a given as long as Murphy doesn't get involved ....

Anyone have their Magic 8 ball/Crystal ball(or whatever works) handy ;-) ....

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
SEC/NFL HD football from CBS definetly has that Eye-popping, "Is this TV or am I looking out of a window" look from WKRC-DT THIS year ... To all who follow this thread: PLEASE, PLEASE take a minute to feed that compliment to WKRC via the feedback form on their homepage. Send it to programming or management. They still doubt our existence. http://www.wkrc.com/contactus/

While you're at it, thank-you notes would also do a lot of good at: gm@fox19.com and there's a contact form on WLWT's site, as well. I know it's time-consuming, but we all operate by the same rule.. for every one who takes the time to write, there are 100 with the same sentiment who don't. Ten letters from the followers of this thread will plant the thought. Trust me.

for every one who takes the time to write, there are 100 with the same sentiment who don't. Ten letters from the followers of this thread will plant the thought. Trust me.

I wrote them both, took 2 mins. I hope others invest the time, too.

...where do we write for the opposite-type-of (complaint) letter for no HD for Ryder Cup? Please don't tell me "not enuf HD equipment" as they just broke a revenue record of $70 million! ...sounds more like just a bad decision IMHO

Originally posted by DrDon
To all who follow this thread: PLEASE, PLEASE take a minute to feed that compliment to WKRC via the feedback form on their homepage. Send it to programming or management. They still doubt our existence. http://www.wkrc.com/contactus/

While you're at it, thank-you notes would also do a lot of good at: gm@fox19.com and there's a contact form on WLWT's site, as well. I know it's time-consuming, but we all operate by the same rule.. for every one who takes the time to write, there are 100 with the same sentiment who don't. Ten letters from the followers of this thread will plant the thought. Trust me.

I sent a email to both. I actually emailed FOX the other day asking about HD and TWC and they sent back this. So I replied and thanked them for the information.

Thank you for your message. At the current time, no time line has been set for FOX19 to broadcast in HD on Time Warner Cable. The Fox network and FOX19 have begun broadcasting selected NFL football games and some prime time programming in HD. We do not have a timeline for HD broadcasts of U.C. Basketball.

Thanks.

Rick Oliver
Operations Manager

Done, Done and Done!

Originally posted by DrDon
To all who follow this thread: PLEASE, PLEASE take a minute to feed that compliment to WKRC via the feedback form on their homepage. Send it to programming or management. They still doubt our existence. http://www.wkrc.com/contactus/

While you're at it, thank-you notes would also do a lot of good at: gm@fox19.com and there's a contact form on WLWT's site, as well. I know it's time-consuming, but we all operate by the same rule.. for every one who takes the time to write, there are 100 with the same sentiment who don't. Ten letters from the followers of this thread will plant the thought. Trust me.

Originally posted by chrisdow
...where do we write for the opposite-type-of (complaint) letter for no HD for Ryder Cup? Please don't tell me "not enuf HD equipment" as they just broke a revenue record of $70 million! ...sounds more like just a bad decision IMHO I'd write NBC Sports. But, in all fairness, "not enough HD equipment" is the honest excuse. None of the networks own their own mobile telecast trucks. For a number of reasons I won't go into here, it really IS cheaper to rent. And, right now, every truck that exists and a few that don't have been booked solid well into next year. That's a good thing.

Another thing that figures into that decision is the expense vs revenue. It costs considerably more to broadcast an event in HD than SD. Golf, especially (which I'll get to). And, currently, you can't make any more with regular advertising to cover that upcharge. Advertising is sold in cost per thousand and being in HD doesn't deliver any more eyes than NOT being in HD (We could all argue that, but since HD viewership isn't rated, the black-and-white says no). So, you have to sell an HD sponsorship. That's darn tough to do for a single event unless it is of Super Bowl/BCS/World Series audience proportions. And the Ryder Cup isn't. The other way is to sell a series of events, such as what CBS did with its PGA coverage and the SEC. Although, we see even CBS abandanoned that and routed money from Argent to the SEC package. Thing is, sports programming is often money LOSING to begin with. Networks use it to convert viewers over to its prime time programming. Golf viewers are a different sort. Run all the "Joey" promos you want, they just don't convert well. So running a profit line on golf is more important than having football fall in the black.

The third problem is the amount of HD you get out of a golf match. By necessity, you end up with a ton of wireless cameras. They don't make wireless HD cameras (yet) and there's only so much of an 18-hole golf course you can string with cable. It CAN be done, but it costs a whole lot more than a football game. And a football game makes a whole lot more from ad revenue than golf. Simple business decision. It will eventually change. And, from the looks of things, the BIG "move" has finally started to pick up steam. Patience.

Originally posted by jim tressler
Done, Done and Done! Thanks, thanks, and thanks. One more: wlwtgm@channelcincinnati.com

Good to see some more folks contacting the stations! I suppose We'll just have to keep on like the energizer bunny until they realize there are more than 7(or 200) of us out here watching, and, maybe they'll also realize that the vast majority of people with HD probably are just going to flip the channel when something goes wrong instead of calling the station ..... ;-)

Anyhow -- WPTO-DT 28(14-x remap) has Audio and HD Video up on Think14 HD tonight at 6:20pm ... Finally get to see Clifford in HD WITH audio ;-) (Don't tell the kids ...) ...

According to their schedule (here : http://www.thinktv.org/program/program.php - Choose "customize" and you can choose the ThinkDTV program service (such as Think14 HD) and get the schedule for up to a week ahead) : They have PBS HD Sat+Sunday Nights between 6pm~11pm.

They are also apparently time shifting PBS HD instead of directly airing the feed as the other PBS affiliates in the area do, including some of the PBS HD/Widescreen stuff that airs during the day on PBS HD channel that we don't normally get to see from WCET-DT/WCVN-DT/WPTD-DT.

I did contact them during the week concerning the missing audio on 14 HD and various other issues I've noticed concerning WPTO-DT/WPTD-DT over the past few months .. They quickly responded and said they would work on the issue ..

My guess is, especially given how difficult it would be to monitor audio(not to mention video) from what -- 6~10 ThinkDTV program services from the control room, they probably didn't even KNOW about the missing 14 HD audio that's been going on for a month or more when they air PBS HD ..

This past week, I also contacted about 8 of the 15 Dayton/Cincy area DTV stations concerning various issues(some intermittant, some not) + as well as sending thank yous/etc to WXIX for FOX HD/etc this past week ... I haven't done a lot of contacting the stations over the summer, as I've been very busy and haven't had time to watch enough to make many relevant comments, but, I finally got around to it this week ...

I'll contact some of the above stations when I get a free minute.

I often watch WKRC and WLWT instead of my Dayton local stations because they do not degrade their picture with multicasts like WHIO and WDTN do.

Here is the email I received from WLWT in regards to Dolby Digital 5.1 audio being available in the future. I also thanked them for providing the HD programming from NBC.


Thanks for the e-mail and for watching!

We don't have plans for getting 5.1 running by the Fall, however we do have
the equipment we need to buy budgeted for next year. By Summer you should
hear the difference.

Let us know if you have any questions, concerns or comments.

========================================

Sean Torbett
Director of Engineering
WLWT-DT/TV
1700 Young Street
Cincinnati, OH 45202
513.412.5000
513.412.6115 Fax
http://www.channelcincinnati.com

very nice.. i may just send one off myself.. so far no response from any of them.. espicailly not WCPO about the jaggies...

Originally posted by jim tressler
so far no response from any of them.. They're probably still in shock from discovering someone actually watches HD. ;)

I'm still waiting to hear from WXIX and WKRC. I only emailed them yesterday so I'll see what happens. WLWT was very quick to respond to my email. I emailed WSTR and never received any reply.

While were on the subject, does anyone know the latest FEDERAL mandate, "must broadcast in HD" by a date is? (or better put how long has it been pushed back to now?) Is that mandate for both networks & locals?

You throw the Dr Don ststements(which make sense) that the ad dollars aren't there, or dedicated to HD, it could get really frustrating for us HD-advocates out here...couldn't it?

Originally posted by chrisdow
While were on the subject, does anyone know the latest FEDERAL mandate, "must broadcast in HD" by a date is? (or better put how long has it been pushed back to now?) Is that mandate for both networks & locals?

You throw the Dr Don ststements(which make sense) that the ad dollars aren't there, or dedicated to HD, it could get really frustrating for us HD-advocates out here...couldn't it?

The mandate is for digital not HD. I don't know if we'll ever see the day where every channel is in HD. Where would the bandwidth come from? I have heard talk about moving the 2006 date back and if they keep moving it then it really isn't a date yet.

There is enough bandwith. Each station has been given the same amount of bandwith. Within that bandwidth, you can digitally broadcast 1 good HD program, or 4 SD programs, or 1 lower quality HD program and 2 SD programs. What happens will depend on viewer demand and the income each option generates. The station doesn't have to select just one of these options and stick with it They can change the option at different times of the day. PBS stations especially very their options frequently.

I think they can also choose to use some of the bandwidth for non programming purposes such as data transmission for special users.

Is anybody having reception problems with WCPO's HD broadcast (9-1) of MNF? I have yet to have signal problems for the last 2 months and tonight I can't see the game!!! Is it just me?

Note: 9 is working fine, but 9-1 and 9-2 are going in and out.

No problem for me with MNF...TWC

Dixon,

No problems here with WCPO-DT and MNF HD football, solid 95% on the signal quality meter. I'm guessing you are probably dealing with a bit of co-channel interference tonight, hard to say exactly from where, as there are many stations(digital and analog) on channel 10 within 300 miles or so ...

Which way is your antenna aimed, and what sort of antenna do you have? That might tell us something ...

The reason I ask is, Long distance signal propagation(tropo) is making it into my location tonight(especially from Northeast, East and South currently), and it seems especially prevalent on Hi-VHF, currently. Currently receiving analogs WPXI 11/WQED 13 Pittsburg, PA and just caught the local news from Fox 8 (WWCP analog) Johnstown, PA (282 Miles).

I'm even getting a bit of co-channel interference to WHIO 7, Dayton(12 miles) with my antenna aimed right AT them ....

If you checked out 9-2 radar tonight --- it looked like it's raining ... well, obviously it's not rain, but I think sometimes radar can pick this stuff up when the air in certian lower layers of the atmosphere is especially conducive to refracting VHF/UHF signals beyond the curvature of Earth(sometimes WELL beyond curvature of Earth - We call this "tropo" for short -- It's longer name is either troposperhic scatter, or tropospheric ducting, I think we are probably getting some of the latter tonight.... )

Always some unusual tropo happening around the equinox, especially in the VHF/FM bands. I remember it used to drive us nuts at the station I worked for in Detroit. Couldn't hear our own station in our own headphones TWO MILES from the transmitter. Used to get WGAR, Cleveland, instead. Made it hard to do a show when you're listening to some other guy's show. Even harder when that "other guy" is an old buddy!

FWIW, no problems with WCPO-DT, other than the jaggies, which seemed less as the night wore on. Got some freezes on WKEF-DT, but I don't know why, as I quickly switched and 'CPO was fine.

Still stellar PQ from WKRC-DT on "CSI Miami" tonight. And WLWT-DT's PQ is still noticeably better than WDTN-DTs on LAX. But that 5.1 sound sounds SOOOOO good from 'DTN.

Hey, Weasel. Noticed tighter HD joins from Local avails. Still manual? If so, you have the op using both hands.

Yeah. With ducting, someone could say be getting Knoxville 10 blasting in+tearing up WCPO-DT, and a guy 10 miles away might not see anything.

The lake probably helped with that problem in Detroit too ... Not to mention how tightly FCC started allowing stations pack in on FM not too long back ... I can just imagine some of the letters+calls you guys must have received .... LOL ... And ... Yeah. The High pressure systems that often move through around this time of year, especially when they are in the right place and move pretty slowly seem to occasionally bring some nice tropo. Which is good for we Dx'ers, as it's been much quieter than usual tropo wise this year so far.

Had intermittant locks on WFMJ-DT 20, Youngstown, Ohio just after 11:35 -- Only seen them a few times before -- WBNS-DT Columbus is wiping out the analog on 21 ... Anyhow ... Even Youngstown gets to see Leno in HD ...

Oh, Looks like Fox HD Columbus(DT-36) may have increased power -- I'm getting them better than ANY of the Columbus DT's tonight, and I've never seen that before ... Their analog is making it through WPTO-DT (barely) however. ... I'm not even seeing a hint of signal from WSYX-DT 13, probably because I'm seeing WQED 13 Pittsburg(on same heading) instead ..

Anyhow -- The MOST likely culprit for CCI to DT 10 in our area(depending upon location+directivity of recieving antenna) is likely WBNS 10, Columbus, Ohio.

The following isn't all that unusual here(my analog tuner locks on 10 Columbus about 99% of the time w/ant aimed that way, even though I can't usually see it through WCPO's DT snow) -- but, some pics I snapped with Digital camera tonight follow -- At left, WCPO-DT 10(32 Miles, Azimuth 188), Antenna Aimed South -- At right, WBNS 10 Columbus, Ohio(78 Miles - AZ 70) - Antenna aimed ENE, with DT snow from WCPO-DT making it look much worse than it used to prior to 1998 when I used to often watch Bengals home games on WBNS ;)

Here at my location, I'm having trouble with WCET tonight on CH 34 because of tropo from WBKI in Louisville/Campbellsville KY. WCPO -DT is strong hear tonight, but I have in the past have seen tropo from WBNS CH10 in Columbus OH cause dropouts on WCPO-DT.

Seeing WBKI here too, now with WCET off air-- WUPX-DT 21, Pax Morehead is the only DT station I currently have a lock on from down that way, though. Back when WCET was at 7KW STA, I used to have some problems with CCI from WBKI, but not since they upped it to 215KW in spring/summer 2003 if I recall correctly. WOSU 34 Columbus also coming in quite nicely since WCET-DT went down at their normal time ... Pittsburg is gone here now, and WSYX-DT 13 Columbus is in ... Also just pulled in a new one THROUGH WCPO 9 ... WTOV 9, Steunbenville, Ohio ...

didn't have any reception problems with WCPO last night - except for the jaggies - I thought the picuture was very subpar for hd football - especially comparing it to CBS and FOX - I am going to send another email to them. Of course I fell asleep at the half so I could not observe if things got better :) Anyway - props to NBC - nailed the switches to HD flawlessly on Las Vegas (very nice in HD!!) and LAX

Originally posted by DrDon
Always some unusual tropo happening around the equinox, especially in the VHF/FM bands. I

The past couple of nights I've been getting the Louisville low power DT's (wdrb-49 and wfte-51 @ < 7kW) at 76mi from the tower :D ... The Cincy/Dayton stations have been wreaking havoc on my Lexington stations too.

Wow.. no posts in almost 3 days!! We must all be watching tv!! lol .. anyway, I have not heard back from any of the emails (both questions and compliments) that I sent last week.. I even resent the one to WCPO telling them about their jaggie problems.. still no responses.

jim

Originally posted by jim tressler
We must all be watching tv!!

I would say that is likely a accurate assesment ...

I did notice 48.1 has been missing again on the Zenith box between 8-11pm at least the past few days, as usual when this happens 48.4+48.5 are still there as placeholders -- Seeing 34.1/PBS HD just fine though on the DTC-100 with PSIP turned off.

I tried rescanning for channels on the Zenith last night just to see if that helped, it didn't.

-------------------------

I wouldn't worry about the non-responses, don't let it keep you from sending them more letters ... If nothing else, Any correspondance from the public (even email) is SUPPOSED to go into the stations Public file, but if you want to make extra sure it goes in there, send it to the station as snail mail ... More info here:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/decdoc/public_and_broadcasting.html

This is what the info at above link says about their public inspection file and emails+letters :

"Letters and E-Mail from the Public. Commercial stations must keep written comments and suggestions received from the public regarding their operation for at least three years. Noncommercial stations are not subject to this requirement."

Notice that WCVN+WCVN-DT off air this morning(sun). Hope it's nothing too serious, the other KET's I'm seeing right now(analogs WKPC 15 Lou/WKON 52 Owenton) are fine.

Edit/update 12:30pm EDT - WCVN-DT is back up.

-------------

Still no 48.1/PBS HD last night from WCET-DT --- I turned PSIP on on DTC-100, and it can't see 48.1 either. I assume it would have seen PBS HD last night on 34.1 if I hadn't turned PSIP/guides on ...

No audio again(except during the local promos, so at least this time maybe it was something that happened when they recorded it) on WPTO-DT 14.6 during HD last night. Also, no audio this morning(as is often the case) From WPTD-DT 16.5(Ohio Channel) ....

WCET "contact us" webpage:

http://www.cetconnect.org/contact/

ThinkTV(WTPD/WPTO) Contact info:

http://www.thinktv.org/about/contacts.html

KET Contact info (Don't just pester William, we should tell other folks at KET we are out here too <g> ) :

http://www.ket.org/agency/contact/

For KET Digital contact please email to dtvhelp@ket.org.

Is WCPO-DT all messed up - picture dropping in and out - no sound - for anyone else? Signal strength looks good... and 9-2 is fine with no drop outs!!

thanks

jim

Same for me via TWC. But it was ok at about 9:07

yep.. fixed.. although still full of jaggies... I guess I will send another email

Originally posted by jim tressler
yep.. fixed.. although still full of jaggies... I guess I will send another email

What's fixed? As you say, the jaggies are still there. Doesn't seem fixed to me

In the ridiculous, and strange but true department ...

I had read on a thread from another area that one of the stations there is thinking of dropping its weather radar subchannel because of FCC's new requirement concerning Children's programming --

This is what the Press release from FCC concerning this issue(addressed by commission on 9/9/04) says :

"The Order addresses how the current three-hour children’s core educational programming processing guideline should apply to a DTV broadcaster that chooses to multicast. The Order increases the amount of the core programming guideline proportionally to the increase in free video programming offered by the broadcaster on multicast channels. The revised guideline provides flexibility to broadcasters that multicast by permitting them the choice whether to air core programming on a single or multiple channels provided that at least three hours per week are shown on their main channel. The Order finds that only programming aired on non-subscription channels qualifies as core programming. The new guidelines will become effective after a one-year phase-in period. "

"Under current guidelines, to qualify as core educational programming, the
programming must be regularly scheduled. The Order concludes that to count under the processing guidelines, a program should not be preempted more that 10% of the time. The Order provides that programs moved to another of a digital station’s programming streams will not be counted as preempted as long as the program airs at the same time
and the station provides adequate information about the move on both the original and alternative program stream."

"The Order amends the Commission’s rules regarding on-air identification of core programming to require both analog and digital broadcasters to identify this programming by displaying the symbol E/I throughout the program. The Order requires that non commercial educational stations also display the symbol. The Order finds that a common on-air identifier will help parents and other interested parties locate programming for the child audience."

:end quote

The R&O itself doesn't appear to be available for Download as of yet, but the press release containing the above can be found here in Word Doc format :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-251972A1.doc

And here if PDF format :

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-251972A1.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------

I wonder if this will have any "effect" on WCPO-DT's 9-2 Weather channel? In the future. I use it all the time, It would be a real shame if it were to disappear because of the above .... Jeez o' pete .... Isn't weather info(including severe weather info) important for everone -- Children included .....

I assume that the local PBS stations won't have any problems as much of their programming is educational/children's programming anyhow which I would assume would qualify, although beginning in a year from now it will have to be labeled with the E/I symbol, even on non-comms .. There would have to be quite a bit of it though, being that the local PBS stations each have have 5 or 6 different multicast/HD services/subchannels ....

--------------------------------------------------------------

Weather radar could be an issue, but Channel 9's Weather Network would be a cinch depending on rule interpretation.

Add a kid's weather page to the image rotation with some sort of educational game (that can be played in the 30 or so seconds it's on the screen) and the requirements are technically met. 30 seconds once every few minutes with a new game every day and it'll easily add up. Or rotating "kids weather facts." It's regularly scheduled (every 3 - 5 minutes) and it's easy to make add up to 3 hours. It's just not in one block. And it's probably more educational that some of the stuff they pass off, now. <G>

By fixed I meant - it was in hd.. at 9pm when it came on the signal kept dropping out - then it went into 4:3 sd for a few minutes, then came back to hd @ 16:9 - but still full of jaggies.. so yes. it was fixed, but it still looked like crap compared to cbs abd fox.. so I sent another email today... maybe we all need to contact them.

Originally posted by Sea Ray
What's fixed? As you say, the jaggies are still there. Doesn't seem fixed to me

"Dan Rather personally vouches for the authenticity of this message."


LOL - then we know your full of crap for sure now :)

And you thought bugs were bad now...

So I'm still toying with idea of dropping DirecTV (after Sunday Ticket is over of course) for Insight's HD/DVR abilities. My question is about their equipment. What held me back a few month ago was the inability to easily record one show (or better yet 2 shows) while watching another show live. I also want my antenna feed to come in to an HD Tuner on the unit, too, so I can watch FOX HD and other antenna feeds. Last I checked Insight was using the Motorola DCT-26??, which only has one tuner built in. I think I heard the TW in Ohio now offers some new DVR equipment which I guess has several inputs and tuners and enables the user to do all those things. Has anyone heard if Insight has or plans to upgrade their equipment?

Noticed WCET-DT fixed their PSIP problem with 48.1 on Tuesday night. (Warning: Jinx alert ahead).

Which is especially good because Yes is on HD Soundstage tonight at 10 ... (WCVN-DT 54-4, WCET-DT 48-1, WPTD-DT 16-6)

It should also be rebroadcast on WPTD-DT 16-6, Dayton at 1AM tonight, those are the only HD airings I can find.

Had to call wkrc to flip the switch for the 4pm jets fish game..

they got right on the ball then!

jim

I am in Newport, KY and have Insight's DVR box with the HD. I am a huge Bengals fan, as well as a football fan, and I am having some trouble with getting the BENGALS ONLY in HD. It seems that EVERY OTHER game on CBS, ABC, and ESPN I can get in HD, but so far, I have been unsuccessful in getting the HD into my home. In week 1, the Jets away game, the no signal on CBS. Then, in week 2, I was at the game, but I set the DVR to record the HD signal, since it was Sunday Night Football, on ESPN, I was SURE that it would record in HD. Well, when I got home, I looked at the recording, and no dice. And then, last week, again, at home, I was there, I set the DVR to record the HD CBS signal, and it came in, but not in HD. And then yesterday, away, Pittsburgh, I was watching, on the CBS HD, and again, no HD signal. I know that the Sunday night game was broadcast in other markets in HD, my friend in VA told me he got it in HD down there.

Is there any reason I cannot get MY local team's games in HD? I am about sick of this only getting other market's games with my equipment. I won't pay the money to Insight each month if it just isn't going to happen for me. I read in this thread earlier that someone said something about calling the station and having them "flip the switch"?

Please help!

Or at least let me know what I can expect!

Thanks in advance.

Keith

Only the ESPN game against the fish was in HD - the rest were only in crappy SD (Thanks CBS) - so there was no switch to flip


jim

The only Bengals game broadcast in HD this year was the ESPN game. All the others were in standard definition. CBS does very few NFL games in HD and rarely would our beloved Bengals qualify as a marquee matchup worthy of HD.

Does Insight have ESPN-HD? Does your DVR record in HD? I think your issue is with your DVR box and how you get it to record in HD.

...and even the Miami game could be found in HD only on ESPN HD, not ESPN and not channel 12 or 12-1. The reasons channel 12 didn't offer it on HD are explained earlier in the thread; basically because they were rebroadcasting the ESPN-HD feed. I know cuz I wondered if it would be. I imagine that the Denver Monday nite game on ABC will be the only remaining time to catch the Bengals in HD.

Del, I'm also in No KY, can I ask you to please take a stab at answering my Insight Cable questions, which is about 5 posts back on this thread? I currently have DirectTV.

Bengals will be in HD on MNF Oct 25, I'm assuming it's sold out, in which case WCPO-DT+WKEF-DT should air it in HD.

CBS is doing 3 NFL HD games a week(out of about 6 or 7 per week), I would hardly call that "very few", especially when compared to previous regular seasons, although yes, it isn't as much NFL HD as Fox is doing .... The October 17th game vs. Cleveland apparently will not be in HD. Since there is still a limited number of HD equipped production trucks out there, and the HD audience is still quite small, personally, I would guess which games will be in HD is more of a matter of Logistics than anything else, although who knows, the teams that have the most popularity/etc. nationwide might have something to do with it as well. I would be surprised though if NONE of the Bengals CBS games are HD this year, but who knows at this point.

CBS has been scheduling/announing the HD games only about 3 weeks out, you can see which CBS games will be HD(about 2-3 weeks ahead of time) here :

http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

Fox is doing 6 NFL HD games per week, most weeks I think they are pretty much doing all the games in HD, unless they've got 7 games(such as week one, when the 7th game was SD). Fox has 2 Bengals home games this year, Dallas vs. Bengals on Nov. 7, and Giants at Bengals on Dec 26. Since Fox has 6 games both those weeks, I would assume there is a very, very good chance those 2 games will be HD, and, as long as they are sellouts, we'll get to see them in HD on WXIX-DT(19.1 OTA Cincy)/ WRGT-DT(30-1 Dayton).



http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSchedule?categoryId=67041

The Insight DVR/HD equipment is the Motorola box that you described. 1 tuner, you can only watch what you are recording, no optical audio output, only coaxial, and I have not been able to get any 5.1 from ANY network other than PBS. Is that to be expected? WHen I called Insight, they said they have no date to expect a dual tuner DVR to this market. Also, if you split your cable once it enters your home, you may encounter signal strength problems. I have.

If I could have DirecTV, I would. To me, the equipment, cost, programming, and signal are all superior to cable. I use the phone company for DSL bundled with my cell phone, so, that takes care of that. Unfortunatly, there is a HUGE tree in front of my house, and last year the tech that Circuit City sent out (the tech was from Louisville!?!?!?) said that I could not get suffieceint signal. What is funny is that my NEXT DOOR neighbor has DirecTV and his dish points right near the tree, he said he has no problems, even to this day, in any weather. I think the install tech wanted to get home, it was late on a cold Saturday, October, and he was from LOIUSVILLE?!?!??!?! When I showed him my neighbors dish, he said that the new 3 line dishes need more sat's to hook up than the one he had on his roof? Is there anything there??? Should I try again?

So should I keep trying to record in HD? I would think that sponsers would want to play EVERY game in HD. If a city has a football team, then they have citizens that have HD!


*******EDITED for previous post. Answered one of my questions********
Keith

Originally posted by del3030k
I have not been able to get any 5.1 from ANY network other than PBS. Is that to be expected?

Currently in Cincinnati, the Following stations are the only ones which have DD 5.1 Capability, and do in fact broadcast DD 5.1 when "available" :

WCET-DT - CET - (PBS HD)
WCVN-DT - KET - (PBS HD)
WXIX-DT - FOX HD - During Fox programming (I don't remember if Insight carries them or not yet, but you can pick them up with an antenna).

WDTN-DT in Dayton(NBC HD) has DD 5.1, which sounded nice last night during American Dreams ... Hard to say but you *might* have a shot at them OTA as well. If you decide to use Satellite, you need to use the OTA portion of the receiver+a regular ol' antenna for HD from the locals and the Broadcast nets, or you can also purchase a OTA only HD receiver.

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Noticed WCET-DT fixed their PSIP problem with 48.1 on Tuesday night. (Warning: Jinx alert ahead).





48-1 is missing again..They need to leave the channel mapped in like WPTO and WPTD have. It would work then. JINX!!

Originally posted by microbob
48-1 is missing again..They need to leave the channel mapped in like WPTO and WPTD have. It would work then. JINX!!

LOL ... That's too funny, not just because of the Jinx Alert(I guess it's somebody's turn to take over from WXIX in that department<g>) because I made that VERY suggestion(I mentioned WCVN-DT/KET as well) when I sent my last email to them(a couple weeks ago), the first one I've ever sent that they didn't respond to for some reason ...

What's even funnier is --- When they are sending EPG info via Off-air guides(which they didn't seem to be last time I checked -- Only WCVN-DT/KET and WLWT-DT seem to currently be sending OTA EPG program guide info - but I have seen WCET-DT send guide info before) -- With 48.1 MIA when they are in 4 channel SD mode, you CAN'T even look at the programming info for 48.1 ....

Del:

Thanks for the helpful info on Insight. I think I'll keep DirecTV until Insight gets better, dual-tuner equipment and also gets Fox 19 HD. Your 5.1 question, along with getting Fox 19 in HD and some other OTA stations, is just one reason I want an antenna tuner included in whatever equipment I get from Insight. I currently love my Hughes e-86 tuner.

The tree really could be a problem with DirecTV, however I'd try again with another retailer and hopefully they'll send another tech out. DirecTV was having trouble finding reliable and local techs. Maybe a more creative tech could get you the line of sight you need to the bird. Actually its now 3 birds that you need line of sight with, so that tech was sort of correct, but I try again. When I upgraded to the oval (HD) dish, my tech raised the dish location to avoid some tree problems that were starting to threatening my signal.

WSTR-DT 64 is now in 1080i.. Smallville in HD!!

Originally posted by microbob
WSTR-DT 64 is now in 1080i.. Smallville in HD!! Good news. Thanks for the catch!!

Excellent! During Everwood last night, it was still 480i at that time but I thought it looked quite a bit better than usual ... I guess we'll see tonight if they're ready to pass through HD yet ...

Whoooo...
Punched over to look and got "Hairy Husband Makeovers." I was ready for them to go BACK to 480i <g>.

LOL, Oh man the guy with the major frizzies certianly is not "HD-ready" ;)

Hey Doc, what's that email address for them that someone there actually READS?

I'll have to dig for it. Gave up a long time ago and misplaced it.

Originally posted by DrDon
Whoooo...
Punched over to look and got "Hairy Husband Makeovers." I was ready for them to go BACK to 480i <g>.

C'mon, you like it, don't ya!?

Originally posted by Paul210
C'mon, you like it, don't ya!? Like it? I qualify to be IN it. <g>.

thats nasty man! - speaking of nasty, those sob's over at wcpo still have a crappy mnf picture.. I have sent the email once again!!!!

jim

No HD tonight for Gilmore Girls from WSTR-DT, it's just a 4x3 SD upconvert to 1080i, so I guess they aren't quite HD ready as of yet ... Will be interesting to see how long it takes them(hopefully not 2 more years) ...

In addition to LOTR:FOTR in HD(and DD 5.1 - The first from WB), and the remaining LOTR trilogy the next couple of years, as well a Made for TV HD movie, Follows is the list of WB's HD offerings for 2004-05 season :

Monday - EVERWOOD
Tuesday - GILMORE GIRLS; ONE TREE HILL
Wednesday - SMALLVILLE, THE MOUNTAIN
Friday - WHAT I LIKE ABOUT YOU, COMMANDO NANNY, REBA
Sunday - ONE TREE HILL (EasyView), THE MOUNTAIN (EasyView), JACK & BOBBY

More info here:

http://www.thewb.com/PressRelease/Index/0,8341,181627,00.html

yep.. everything is 4:3 upconvert on wstr - at least the box is showing 1080i

Significant start, IMHO. Don't think they'd do that if they didn't mean to go forward. And the banners they're running on other stations would indicate they're committed to say the least. Hope so.

Hello Dr. Don & Nightwatchman,

Everything has been just plugging along, that means viewing HDTV is a shot in the dark. Receiving HDTV broadcasts via my 'in the attic' antenna is hit or miss. Thought I would check in with the Cincy link to see what's going on, and you two are still the main stays.


I keep thinking some new technology will come along and solve all my reception problems, while not requiring me to put an antenna on the roof. Unless you know of something new, guess you guys need to tell me the best antenna installer in east Cincy.

I know this is not the category, 'local HDTV info and reception', but what is everyone doing in Cincy regarding upgrading to LCD or Plasma? I am sure it's just the female in me, but one of those slim units would sure look better in my great room than the 55" rptv box I presently have.

btw, Jeff, now that I am better informed on Guiness, I owe you another supply... even if it is two years late.

Kathy..

Plasmas and LCDs are nice, but the deep dark secret is that CRTs and RPTVs still hold an edge when it comes to picture quality. I've yet to see a plasma as sharp as my rear-projection Sony (part of that may be due to the fact I keep mine as calibrated as I can).

Sorry to say, but nothing beats the old roof-mount antenna. Although, futzing with yours in the attic, while time consuming, still might land you with better reception. There's a sweet spot somewhere, you just have to put on the asbestos mask and go find it. Took me weeks of trial and error. But if I can get Cincy AND Dayton from the attic, you should be able to get Cincy.

Where are you, precisely, again?

OTA HD receivers with improved reception via Zenith's much touted 5th generation chipset should be available soon ... I'm not sure which specific new products will include the new chip, only that USDTV is planning on using it in their new boxes ...

Also, they have developed a way for the the antenna to "tune/position" itself automatically from info it gets from the receiver. I don't know how long it will be before we see new products(receiver's or antennas) using this new technology(or how expensive they'll be), or how widespread the availability of such products will be, but the Specification for "how it works" was published several months ago.

--------------------

HD wise, I'm using 2 direct-view CRT's here presently - A 38" 16x9 HD display + a 26" 16x9 HD display(The latter being a "cheapie display") ... As Doc mentioned, CRT PQ is outstanding(some models are better than others of course), especially with a calibrated display, and especially concerning picture sharpness and accurate black levels ...

A larger display would be nice(and will be with some sort of flat panel display hung on the wall someday, perhaps), but #1, I don't have room for a RPTV any larger than about 38"~42" or so, if they even make them that small, and #2, there IS no larger 16x9 Direct-view CRT than the one I have ... And #3(really should be #1) - I really like the PQ on a Direct-View CRT ....

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
Will be interesting to see how long it takes them(hopefully not 2 more years) ...







Nope not that long. One tree Hill is in 1080i HD right now. :)

It looks Good! Woo-hoo! WB HD makes it to Cincinnati! :) :) :) Thanks WSTR-DT+Sinclair :) :) :)

Originally posted by Nitewatchman
It looks Good! Woo-hoo! WB HD makes it to Cincinnati! :) :) :) Thanks WSTR-DT+Sinclair :) :) :)
Now they need to work on getting the video/audio in sync.

jim

I also noticed that it sounds like they are in mono. It could be related to the sync problem though.

For anyone who was interested in Insight getting multiple tuner HD/DVR equipment in the future, I emailed them and asked. here is the reply: "Thanks for your email. Insight does not yet offer the DVR equipment with multiple tuners. We hope to be able to offer this in early 2005, but there's no firm date yet."

When they do, I'll likely switch. If anyone else is waiting for that equipment (whether you're a subscriber or not), I urge you to write or call them to put some pressure on.

Clarification about Insight: The Motorola Box has only one tuner, but it does record in HD. During free installation, they will also put in their own splitter, and test the signal strength on each node. They took mine from a three way to a four way. . .

As to XIX: I wrote Insight and they responded quickly. XIX had not yet offered them HD broadcasts. I followed this up with an email to the XIX technical head. It took a couple of weeks, but he indicated that while they were broadcasting in HD, they had not yet offered it to the Cable System.

I have a Hitachi 50v500a, so can watch the lower 70 analog channels if I want to watch while recording.

As to quality: HDNet remains the best picture. . .Wish they'd all remember to throw the switch at the right time though. . .it's funny to watch commercials that were obviously recorded for hi def being broadcast in standard.

Sound: Insight's box does have an optical digital out. I believe mine is the Motorola 6208. The biggest irritant is when they switch from 5.1 (or equivalent) to local commercial sound. Talk about flash backs to the old days. Have to be quick with the mute button. . .

hroeder, thanks for the info. If I understand you correctly it sounds like you can watch one show while recording another, with your splitter, but with some restrictions. I take it that Hitachi 50v500a acts and another HD Tuner? Also, I rarely watch HDNet, so I wonder how your HD quality on the network channels would compare to mine (which I pick up via my rooftop antenna). Ideally, I want a mult-tuner so that I can integrate my antenna HD feed into the Insight equipment. That'd also give me WXIX. It also sounds like some people still have trouble with signal strength with all the splitting. All in all, the info Im getting still makes me want to wait til they get multi-tuner equipment.

To clarify: The Hitachi has one DVI and one Component in, 3 SVideo for some reason. Two antennas in. But not a separate HD tuner. It will tune the analog channels directly.

Picture quality on Insight for HD is very good. WKRC, WLW, and WCPO are usually excellent, though for some reason CPO seems to forget to through the switch on occassion. HBO and Showtime are fine. ESPN in HD is good when it's HD. . .but half the time is really still only SD. DiscoveryHD has wonderful picture and audio, if you like what they broadcast. HdNet Movies tends to be older films, but good quality picture and sound. There are 9 separate PBS channels and I really can't tell you anything about them, because I don't watch them. Picture breakup is rare. . .seems less than is being reported here by dish and over the air viewers.

You mean you guys actually get replies back from Insight. Time Warner never responds back to any emails I send. Still waiting for them to get the Scientific Atlantic 8000HD DVR. Don't understand what's taking them so long, as both Columbus and Dayton has had the box for some time now.

Maybe Insight replied to me because I had to check a box: subscriber or non-subscriber.

Originally posted by APorter
You mean you guys actually get replies back from Insight. They've always been really good about that with me, too. They may lag other cable systems with technology, but their customer service is frequently above average.

For those waiting on the SA DVR from TW, here is a not so glowing review from someone who picked up 2 from TW Manhattan:
http://advancedmediacommittee.typepad.com/

Defnitely could be a ymmv issue, but I was disappointed that it mentioned that at least in Manhattan TW disabled the DVI.

is anyone else having trouble with wlwt-dt ?? I am getting no signal from them @2:45pm on Monday - everyone else is just fine. Even 5 analog works - so I am assuming its a digital problem.

thanks

jim

The transmitter appears to be off the air. You might blow a call into WLWT so they won't think nobody noticed.

Edit: back up at 3pm.

yep.. just checked and its back up

Don't know how to take that article or the person who wrote it, since he thinks high definition television is not ready for prime time. What he doesn't realize that the box has nothing to do with Time Warner not having good HD service. If he would of taken the time to get a non-DVR HD box from Time Warner he would of been able to determine that it was the DVR box not bad HD.

The reason for this rant is pretty simple - HDTV is not ready for prime time and it is certainly not something you need to rush out to buy.

Aside from the Mono audio+occasional A/V sync problem, WSTR-DT has certianly been doing a fine job providing WB HD so far, Hope they can keep it up!

Everyone feel free to send them a note or give them a call to thank them for WB HD and/or comment on the audio+sync problem -- Evidently, they do read at least some of the emails from their website form, as a fellow on the Dayton Thread got a response from them recently :

WSTR-DT/WB 64 Contact info :

Comments form : (use Technical/Enginnering or programming/etc in drop down box) :

http://www.wb64.net/cincinnati_oh/station/contact_departments.shtml

Phone or snail mail :

WB64, WSTR
5177 Fishwick Drive
Cincinnati, OH 45216
Phone: 513-641-4400
Fax: 513-242-2633

Email sent. I did thank them and commented on the audio mono/sync issue.

Sent two <g>.

same here

Any idea when they might turn up the juice? I can't get them right now since they are at flea power.

Yes, I'm in Dayton, but WBDT is not showing any signs of passing WB HD at this point in time.

At 8:50pm, we now have proper Stereo from WSTR-DT. PLII decoding from the DD 2.0 for the surrounds+center channel seems to be working well now too ...

For those that didn't check it out -- At 8pm, there was WB HD for a few seconds, but it looked like what you'd get when the Horiz hold on a old TV was a little "flaky" ... They quickly switched to SD feed for a bit, presumably until things were "straightened out" -- HD came back a bit later, but with"quasi mono" out of Left channel with what sounded like should have been going to the surrounds(I have no idea how that could have happened) coming out of R channel until 8:50pm when they started sending proper Stereo ....

I think someone down there IS paying attention :)

I'm glad someone at 64 is on the ball with HD. Now if WCPO-DT could turn on 5.1 and fix there audio problems, audio volume fluxuations we'd be set.

Originally posted by microbob
Now if WCPO-DT could turn on 5.1 and fix there audio problems, audio volume fluxuations we'd be set. Forgetting 5.1 for a second, it appears to me WCPO-DT has either abandoned the integrated switcher or it's failing. This, oddly, is good news. Without the old integrated MC switcher, ABC-HD can remain in HD during weather bugs and school closing crawls. I'm probably getting ahead of myself (jinx alert), but it's something that I know THEY were aware of, whether from our complaints or otherwise. I may be WAY ahead of myself, but keep your fingers crossed. As with WKRC-DT, 5.1 has been pushed to next year's budget. Since there's a rumor ABC may be considering Fox's splicer system, it may get zinged from the budget altogether. My speculation.

Also noticed that WXIX-DT does NOT revert to SD during crawls or sponsor bugs. Let's hope they don't notice that, either.

I know wcpo still uses an "older" harris flexcoder which hopefully is failing and will force them to upgrade - as from what I have read, the harris flexcoder is the problem with Monday Night football jaggies

Sound fluctuations. . . local commercials are at a whole other level of decibles.

And then the idiot who leaves the show in SD about 2/3rds of the way through. Seems related to stiicking in the local station id, and not removing it. KRC. . .

I think this just goes to show that we need to keep on these folks and make sure they do the right thing, including praising them when things go well.. I just sent an email to FOX 19 about the great job they have done.

jim

Originally posted by hroeder
Sound fluctuations. . . local commercials are at a whole other level of decibles.

And then the idiot who leaves the show in SD about 2/3rds of the way through. Seems related to stiicking in the local station id, and not removing it. KRC. . .

re: WKRC-DT

If you watch 'KRC regularly enough, you can almost tell which MCO is on on which nights. There's one that's so massively tight with the thing, you rarely get any audio jitter. That MCO cuts from HD to SD at the beginning of a break that contains local material and is razor tight on the rejoins. He/she works most weeknights.

The other MCO doesn't join up with the local material until it starts (and is sometime late with that). That MCO is the one that frequently forgets to switch back at the end of the break. That MCO works most weekends and covers vacations for the weeknight guy/gal.

You've described it perfectly Don. Can always tell by where the network logo is after the commercial blackout. . .You'd think it would be automated. Go to black, change output. . . though I'd rather they all did what ESPN did. ESPN's signature side bars. . .at least you know the picture is going to be in HD if it can be. . .

I'm sure they'll get to the sidebar thing someday. And some of them ARE automated. WXIX-DT with the splicer is now automated. WLWT-DT is computerized (but overridable) and WCPO-DT used to have an integrated MC switcher that sort of made it automatic. WKRC-DT is just a router in a panel in front of the MC switcher with a 4-inch SD monitor. It's literally like changing stations on an old car radio. One button routes the SD output of the MC switcher to the digital transmitter, another routes CBS' HD feed. The monitor on the router displays the router's output. It's not an off-air monitor. The MCO has to remember to reach up and hit the right button at the right time. With all that goes on to stage a local break, I'm amazed the one guy gets it as clean as he does.

Hello All. As a newcomer to HDTV I have a noob question. Last night WCPO would not come in at all from 8pm through 11pm. I have a Mits 62725 and an 45dB amplified antenna to view OTA broadcasts. I always have a hard time with WCPO but last night NOTHING! Did anyone else experince this as well? Thanks.

45DB?!? That's a bit much, isn't it? As close as you are, you shouldn't need ANY amp unless you're driving a dozen TVs.

Anyway, we had a front move through, last night, and that always brings in interference from other markets. WCPO-DT is on Channel 10 ..same as WBNS analog in Columbus. Same direction from where you are. I'd bet if you drop the amp in those cases, you'd get them just fine. Or nudge your antenna more north. Being VHF, you don't need to be dead on at your distance. Heck, I get 'em on a UHF-only rig aimed at Dayton.

DrDon, Thanks for the quick reply. I thought the weather might have had something to do with it. I should also add that my antenna is an indoor 6in dish in my basement. On your recommendation I will see what happens if I unplug it and try to tune the stations.

Originally posted by jim tressler
I know wcpo still uses an "older" harris flexcoder which hopefully is failing and will force them to upgrade - as from what I have read, the harris flexcoder is the problem with Monday Night football jaggies

I don't think WCPO-DT uses a Flexicoder. Unless they've changed to something different, According to this(see info at link below), It's a General Instrument HD(MPEG2) Encoder. I don't know what is up with those jaggies, they've never been there before this year.

http://www.wcpodt.com/equipment.html

jeff you are right.. for some reason I thought they used a harris flexcoder but I guess the only harris stuff they have is the antenna.. how can we get wcpo tv to fix the jaggies? any ideas?

jim

I'm Clueless Jim ... I'm hoping they'll figure it out sooner or later ....

If they still "don't know about it" so to speak .... One thing they could do would be, If they've still got the HD monitor You see sitting on top of the racks in 2 of the pics labeled "WCPO Terminal Equipment" on this page: ( http://www.wcpodt.com/photos.html ), AND they hook the thing up to a DTV receiver/antenna and compare MNF HD between WCPO-DT and WKEF-DT Dayton - then at least they would see the problem, and they would also notice WKEF-DT's HD pic is sharper, which really probably shouldn't be the case .... Prior to WCPO-DT's studio move, and back when WDTN-DT was the Dayton ABC affiliate, there was really little, if any difference in HD PQ between the two ...

I know that here, I can tell the difference in the "jaggies"/Sharpness between WCPO-DT/WKEF-DT on a 26" 16x9 display, but the difference is MUCH more visable+pronounced on my larger 38" display. I probably wouldn't be able to tell it if I still had my 15" PC monitor hooked up to my HD STB ...

Back when CPO was making their studio move I had emailed them asking what was up with their not showing an HD picture. I got an answer back that they were rushed into the move by the City and weren't really prepared to get everything setup. I took this at face value. But it has been a while now.

I guess I haven't been watching a whole lot of ABC shows lately. Haven't noticed a jagginess. . .but I get my signal from Insight Cable. . .

As far as I can tell so far, the WCPO-DT jaggies are only really noticable during MNF HD football, and you still may not notice it unless you have another source of ABC HD to compare it to. If you Look at the yard lines(especially during sideline shots as opposed to shots from higher angles), or the Yellow Circle around the "ABC" in the Score Bug you should see them ...

BTW, Cable gets the same thing from the Station's HD encoder that OTA viewers do, so the HD PQ should be the same unless the cableco is making it "worse" for you, which I don't think is happening in this area at this time(They are not supposed to be doing that anyway), but then again I don't know.

just got a nice response from wxix - looks like there may be a few bearcats games in hd!!
=======================================

Jim, thanks for taking the time to email such a complimentary note. We
are working on the possibility of broadcasting a select few UC
basketball games in HD. We should know the outcome in a matter of days.
Once we decide, we will put out a detailed press release...Again,
thanks
for your correspondence.............JLong

I live on the west side of Hamilton, I'm using an outdoor antenna pointing toward the SE. NBC is @ 88-91%, but ABC, FOX, CBS are all in the 70-75% signal strength area. Is this normal for my location or is there something else that I need to do?

WSTR-DT / WB HD,
Is this in Cincy? I've tried to do a rescan the other night and didnt pick up anything new. :(

Originally posted by jim tressler
just got a nice response from wxix - looks like there may be a few bearcats games in hd!!
=======================================

Jim, thanks for taking the time to email such a complimentary note. We
are working on the possibility of broadcasting a select few UC
basketball games in HD. We should know the outcome in a matter of days.
Once we decide, we will put out a detailed press release...Again,
thanks
for your correspondence.............JLong

Here is more to it:

"We are working with Cincinnati Bell and UC on establishing a transmission path from Shoemaker Center back to the station. I will not know for sure it will happen until late November or early December. "

I guess all home games with be in HD is this case.... ?
So... there :) Can't wait!

Originally posted by Dimitriz
WSTR-DT / WB HD,
Is this in Cincy? I've tried to do a rescan the other night and didnt pick up anything new. :( Yep. WSTR-DT is ch 33. But they're low power. If I nudge my antenna much off of due north, I lose them.

Oakley..

I would have to know more about your antenna setup. If you have a pre-amp, RG-6 cabling and a good amount of aluminum in the air, you should do better. If it's a small combo with RG-59 and no pre-amp, then it's about what I'd expect.

As for Bearcat home games in HD, a lot is going to depend on what WXIX can get as far as a production truck goes. They're not cheap and pretty well booked. OTOH, they don't need quite as much truck as an NFL game. Could be that some of the smaller production units are outfitting for HD, now. Could be that Raycom is putting together its own truck to bicycle between stations as needed. Could also be that HDNet is involved. They did some college ball, last year...

This could be interesting.

Doc

Yep, that would be very cool to get some local HD going again ... Seems like having some UC games in HD could be a really good "promotion" tool for 'xix, too ...

The HD Fireworks in Previous years, as well as some HD demo footage from PPS that used to run "occasionally" on WCPO-DT or WKRC-DT, and the 99' Tall Stacks thing with Nick Clooney that ran on WCET-DT a number of times has been it AFAIK as far as local HD productions that have made it to air ...

anyone have a status of Fox-19's efforts on getting their HD setup going on the Time Warner system? tia -

I had emailed their OP manager Rick in September and he said the following.
Thank you for your message. At the current time, no time line has been set for FOX19 to broadcast in HD on Time Warner Cable. The Fox network and FOX19 have begun broadcasting selected NFL football games and some prime time programming in HD. We do not have a timeline for HD broadcasts of U.C. Basketball.

Thanks.

Rick Oliver
Operations Manager

This info is also posted in the Forums over at www.cincinnatihdtv.com

Zekyl - appreciate the followup on this.. Hopefully this'll get dropped on us in the manner that ESPN-HD got rolled out - fingers crossed!

Thanks

Hey Jeff..

Just heard through the 'vine that the WBQC channel swap is happening before Christmas. There also seems to be FCC progress w/r/t WBQC doing digital. You're better at digging around for FCC stuff than I am..

Doc

Thanks for the heads up Doc ... Good news. Just caught Enterprise on WBQC, and the way the audio has been heavily "favoring"the left channel so to speak is beginning to get a little annoying ... Hope they fix that in the process too ..

I'll see if I can find anything first of next week ... I did look at the CDBS stuff for WBQC/WOTH either Thur+Fri, and didn't see any changes ... Although, of course some of this stuff can happen more "directly" between FCC+the station and it might take a while before anything shows up in CDBS or TV query...

FCC did recently issue some rules for LP digitals -- They can even try to seek a companion channel for digital -- IF they "flash cut" either WBQC or WOTH on channel they would have to to file for a Minor CP Mod and have it approved before either could go digital .... unless of course they have something "special" worked out with the commission ...

wbqc swap to what?

Jim..

38 and 25 (WOTH-LP and WBQC-CA) are co-owned and there's been a facilities swap planned for some time.

Yeah -- also --- When they get on 38, WBQC is increasing power to 140KW ERP(they are currently at 34.5 KW ERP(peak analog) --- WOTH-LP's CP(construction permit) for 25 is to use WBQC 25's current facilities(transmitter/antenna/etc) Current Info on FCC for both stations indicates that the "swap" CP's are for analog facilities. I take it with the recent rules FCC adopted for LP digital, that they also now have digital plans in the works, although I would expect it might be a while, but you never know I suppose ....

WOTH-LP is currently operating on 38 with a 18.6 KW ERP STA, I believe. They were displaced off 39 by WKOI-DT in Late 2002, and they were also displaced off 35(their original channel) in 1998 by WLWT-DT. Both stations have antennas up nice and high on WCPO's tower.

A little "history"(see their site for more info) ... When WBQC 25 first came up in the late 80's or early 90's, it was from an antenna on top of a building ...I believe their original LP callsign was W25AI ... I could BARELY see them(and only during the winter when the leaves were off) from here ... I also recall that some of the N1 programming they ran at that time would probably make Janet Jackson blush :) ....

Of course ... I heard back in Fall 2002 ... that they were planning on having WBQC up on 38 at increased power by Spring 2003 ....

But, The CP for WBQC on 38 expires on 12/26/04 -- and I don't think the commission grants CP extensions for LP/CA stations ... I could be wrong about that though ...

For all of you people craving DD5.1, I got this response from WSTR engineering today:

Paul:

Thanks for your comments. We too are excited about finally being able
to broadcast HDTV signals. The quality difference is amazing.
Presently we are broadcasting two channel stereo but we will be offering
5.1 SurroundSound in the near future.

..Chris..


Chris Novy
Engineering

I also received that email. Hopefully we can get it for LOTR on Nov 7.

Originally posted by JunkyardDogg
I also received that email. Hopefully we can get it for LOTR on Nov 7.



WSTR DT will beging broadcasting in 5.1 Surround November 1st.

See below







We are internally testing 5.1 starting this afternoon and WB
will be going 5.1 on November 1st. Let us know if you have any problems
with the audio starting in November.

Thanks.

Chris Novy
Engineering