Electrical interference will cause that. Dishwasher, someone going and turning on the bedroom or bathroom lights, or turning them off, etc...

I also noticed the glitch when WXIX-19 did their station ID during the Bengals game. Really sloppy, and the ID looked really primitive (no graphics, just text). And then at the end of the game, they switched to stretched-screen SD and, as others mentioned, cut off the Fox bonus coverage of other games.

FYI, Given we had discussed this earlier in thread :

FCC just granted WOTH-LP (analog) displacement CP for 19 :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1317887

FYI, Given we had discussed this earlier in thread :

FCC just granted WOTH-LP (analog) displacement CP for 19 :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1317887
I could have sworn WOTH said they weren't going to move, despite that application. Since that CP is granted, it doesn't mean they have to use it though, right?

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Baltimore at Cincinnati
Dick Enberg, Dan Fouts

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) Arizona at Chicago*
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) San Diego at NY Giants
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

4pm FOX (19 WXIX) Carolina at New Orleans
Thom Brennaman, Brian Billick

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Dallas at Philadelphia
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Pittsburgh at Denver+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:
Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

I could have sworn WOTH said they weren't going to move, despite that application. Since that CP is granted, it doesn't mean they have to use it though, right?

I think this was their backup plan in case full-power WAVE in Louisville would displace low-power digital WOTH. Both are on RF 47.

Since that CP is granted, it doesn't mean they have to use it though, right?

No, they don't have to use it. The current CP for 19 is for analog operation, it was a displacement app for their analog station on channel 25 (apparently displaced by WBDT digital on 26) ....

What's the current status with WBQC's CP for channel 20? I thought they were going to have higher ERP on that channel.

What's the current status with WBQC's CP for channel 20? I thought they were going to have higher ERP on that channel.

The ERP is still 15kW (the same as digital WOTH). Their permit expires 8/13/2010. I hope they get it on the air by then. :)

The Bengals have not yet sold out. Last count they said 3,000 tickets remained for the game against the Ravens. They received a 24 hour extension so I expect to hear the sell-out announcement this afternoon. The axiom stating that extension = sell out has yet to be proven wrong.

The axiom stating that extension = sell out has yet to be proven wrong.

And that axiom still holds true. They did sell out. (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Blackout-lifted-game-will-air-locally/09a6cb29-2986-4b48-b42b-046ae4f0fdc5) Plus, the tickets (bought by Kroger) are going to members of the armed forces. :D

I'm in Independence in northern KY. My house sits on a high point in my neighborhood, but I'd prefer to stick with an indoor antenna. I've tried a couple of basic antennas in the same room as the TV's, but I can't get 25-WOTH and have trouble with some of the other channels available to our area. Is there any type of consensus as to an attic or other indoor antenna that is best for the northern KY area? Thanks.

Hello everyone,

Perhaps this is old news, but I have been noticing recently that the volume in the commercials is much higher than the show on most channels. Only a couple of years ago it seemed that this happened on a few channels and on occasion only, but now it seems as if it is the case all the time. It is annoying. I heard somewhere that the regulation is that the commercials cannot be louder than the loudest portion of the show, but it seems as if before it was closer to the mean volume and they have been pushing it higher and higher, close to the limit. Is this true? Or who can we complain to?

I'm in Independence in northern KY. My house sits on a high point in my neighborhood, but I'd prefer to stick with an indoor antenna. I've tried a couple of basic antennas in the same room as the TV's, but I can't get 25-WOTH and have trouble with some of the other channels available to our area. Is there any type of consensus as to an attic or other indoor antenna that is best for the northern KY area? Thanks.

Unfortunately, even if you're the highest point in the neighborhood, WOTH reception could be difficult, for the simple reason that even the highest portions of Independence aren't much higher than that antenna. (Looking at Google Earth, parts of Independence are at around 900 feet. I cannot access the FCC database due to upcoming maintenance, and it's not working now, but I believe the WOTH stick is somewhere between 850-875 feet. Maybe someone at WOTH can say for sure.)

I'd venture a guess that another signal you're having trouble with is WCPO. They have a Petition for Rulemaking (PRM) to abandon RF 10 (which is VHF) for RF 22 (UHF). Until that takes effect, you're going to have trouble as VHF has trouble with land based obstructions (not buildings, but trees, etc are a problem). For the same reason, WKRC-TV 12 might be a tough get until and unless they abandon RF 12.

UHF isn't without its problems - and in those cases, UHF tends to be affected by buildings. So downtown Cincinnati stands between you and a decent signal from those two towers, plus the WLWT tower (if WCPO AND WKRC both move). It can't take advantage of the ability to bounce from sky, to ground, then back up to the sky, etc., etc..

I expect WCPO to switch by mid-year 2010. That leaves WKRC on VHF - and if I needed to hazard the guess, I predict they'll soon file for a PRM. That, you have to think, will happen sooner rather than later - but where do they file to move? That's a query I'd need to research, and I don't think there's an open allocation out there on the UHF band for Cincinnati...

Channel 18.

- Trip

Channel 18.

- Trip

Thanks Trip! I didn't remember it - but you're right. They could use that. There would be no 1st/second adjacents on either side in Cincinnati - but, WPTD 16/Dayton is second adjacent in Dayton.

But...I expect there to be a filing for a PRM either way by WKRC.

WKRC's GM was quoted a few months ago as saying that they are staying where they are. WCPO's problem with Ch 10 has alot to do with intermod.

WKRC's GM was quoted a few months ago as saying that they are staying where they are. WCPO's problem with Ch 10 has alot to do with intermod.

I'm not surprised they're going to stay there. But if they moved I wouldn't blame them. Think about it...they'd be the ONLY VHF station in what would otherwise be a UHF market. Would they want to be in that position?? I doubt it.

If WKRC follows suit withe WCPO, that would piss off ALOT of people (my antenna customers for example) who have a seperate VHF antenna for those 2 channels. The expense and the hassle of getting it mounted and lined up and working properly with a seperate UHF antenna wasn't taken lightly. While WKRC staying put is helpful, and the fact that the VHF antenna brings in FM stereo perfectly, and also having additional stations available in FM (for those that care), some will still be upset.

I have already gotten calls from people that have read about WCPO and were mad that I sold them a soon to be worthless antenna. I have had to explain about WKRC still being on VHF and the possibilities for FM, but you can tell from the tone of the conversation they still aren't happy with all that is going on with OTA television now.

ABC drops in coverage scope (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011085.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=bd_tv)

Apparently since the digital conversion, the major broadcasters lost 1% of their viewership except ABC - which lost 2%!

(insert WCPO rant here)

ABC drops in coverage scope (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011085.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=bd_tv)

Apparently since the digital conversion, the major broadcasters lost 1% of their viewership except ABC - which lost 2%!

(insert WCPO rant here)I'm not sure how that article measured viewership -- I do see that Nielsen is involved though. However, I believe the FCC predicted coverage areas are calculated assuming an outdoor, directional antenna (which is also the spec that digital TV -- as well as analog tv -- were designed for).

Take a look at the FCC's predicted change in coverage as a result of the digital transition (page 5 of the below PDF link). As you can see, the FCC predicted an increase in coverage for WCPO of over 378,000 people. If you assume that all viewers have proper antenna set ups, I think this prediction is quite accurate. However, the reality is that there are many people who have indoor antennas, UHF-only antennas, or other improper set ups, and those viewers complain because they are able to receive the other stations in the area.

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/Cincinnati_OH.pdf


The following article is some additional interesting reading regarding the DTV transition, and the author proposes that many station engineers lack the experience and/or equipment to properly test and "tune" the signal being broadcast from their towers.

http://www.modsci.com/wordpress/?p=11

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 6 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Football:

8:20pm NFLN – Chicago at San Francisco$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Pittsburgh
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Atlanta at Carolina Detroit at Minnesota
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa Sam Rosen, Tim Ryan

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Dallas at Green Bay
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – New England at Indianapolis
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Baltimore at Cleveland+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


UPDATE: 11/11 2:30pm (Fox 1pm game).

Notes:
Enjoy Phil "Bandwagon" Simms and the "Bingles" ;)
As of last check, Cleveland has yet to sell out their Monday night game against the Ravens. I'm guessing they will sell out, but if they don't it would be quite interesting to have that blacked out locally for Cleveland, even though it would not affect TV coverage in the Cincinnati area.

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

I'm surprised the NFL doesn't use their re-scheduling privilege more for games such as Baltimore @ Cleveland. The Cincy/Pittsburgh game would be awesome this Monday night, although I think the ticket holders would be pissed when their plans and reservations are screwed.

I'm surprised the NFL doesn't use their re-scheduling privilege more for games such as Baltimore @ Cleveland. The Cincy/Pittsburgh game would be awesome this Monday night, although I think the ticket holders would be pissed when their plans and reservations are screwed.Flex can only be used on Sunday night games later in the season. Monday night games are set in stone unfortunately.

I can't seem to get ABC in for about a week. Have they changed anything lately? I have a rooftop antenna a DB8 and I was getting it in fine but then all the sudden since last week I haven't been able to get it back in. The only thing that's change with the antenna is I recently hid the cable on the outside of my house a little better but I made sure that it never went at a 90 degree angle anywhere. Its weird I guess I'll just have to play with it some more to see what happened.

DB8 is UHF antenna. Reorientating a bit of the coax (especially nearer the antenna) certianly could have effected things a bit.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/DB8.html

DB8 is also mentioned in the section "Using a UHF antenna for VHF" on this page :

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Specifically, where it says :


..... Other 8-bays, like the 8800 and the DB-8, have a reflector that is not continuous across the right and left halves, and thus they have no useful gain for VHF.

I can't seem to get ABC in for about a week. Have they changed anything lately? I have a rooftop antenna a DB8 and I was getting it in fine but then all the sudden since last week I haven't been able to get it back in. The only thing that's change with the antenna is I recently hid the cable on the outside of my house a little better but I made sure that it never went at a 90 degree angle anywhere. Its weird I guess I'll just have to play with it some more to see what happened.

Another consideration is that most of the leaves are off the trees now and that introduces both a gain in the signal received (since the leaves on the trees act as attenuators) and an increase in multipath, which could clobber the signal.

The following article is some additional interesting reading regarding the DTV transition, and the author proposes that many station engineers lack the experience and/or equipment to properly test and "tune" the signal being broadcast from their towers.

http://www.modsci.com/wordpress/?p=11

I guess you completely missed the point of that website...to sell test equipment. That article may have a valid point out in the boonies where test equipment budgets are non-existant but not here.

We've had a good handle on our RF performance since day one. In fact, the Harris transmitter with the Apex exciters used by us has a lot of the data available right in the transmitter displays. We also have outboard 8VSB analyzers that cost more than my car to confirm what those displays are telling us.

If you want to improve digital TV reception on VHF, the first thing we need to do is hold public floggings for the managers of every big box store and manufacturer that have marketed a 6" piece of plastic and tin as a "high definition antenna".

I've personally handled dozens of calls where my advice to ditch the fancy plastic and fire up a set of good old rabbit ears did the trick.

After the inappropriate antenna question is solved we'll work our way through the multipath alleys like Saylor Park, Anderson Ferry and similar areas where they were never able to get a clean signal on Channel 12 analog but are now expecting digital to solve their problems.

And the people that have had cable for 20 years and didn't even know they need an antenna for OTA. Some of them actually CAN see some UHF on the center conductor of the F connector on the back of their box so they think you're lying when you make the suggestion.

Meanwhile, we'll take the money that we used to shovel at Duke Energy (we've reduced our power draw by 93%) and try to amortize the huge amount of money we've already spent to show you the extra set on either side of Rob & Kit (we still have to frame the camera shots 4:3 for all the converter boxes).

Since the even-more-depressed ad market these days won't pay a dime extra for HD, the only ways we've found so far to make this money back is the light bill savings and the much reviled CW sub channel.

And if we're really lucky they'll let a few of us stick around to work through the technical details of whatever comes next.

If sometimes we don't live up to your expectations it's not because the engineering community in this town doesn't knows what it's doing.

</RANT>


(My employer has never been able to control what comes out of my mouth so the preceeding was brought to you be me and me alone)

another consideration is that most of the leaves are off the trees now and that introduces both a gain in the signal received (since the leaves on the trees act as attenuators) and an increase in multipath, which could clobber the signal.

Bingo!:)

If you want to improve digital TV reception on VHF, the first thing we need to do is hold public floggings for the managers of every big box store and manufacturer that have marketed a 6" piece of plastic and tin as a "high definition antenna".I couldn't agree with you more.After the inappropriate antenna question is solved we'll work our way through the multipath alleys like Saylor Park, Anderson Ferry and similar areas where they were never able to get a clean signal on Channel 12 analog but are now expecting digital to solve their problems.And this is the fault of our government telling the public the reception would be better with no more ghosting and/or snowy reception.

I couldn't agree with you more.And this is the fault of our government telling the public the reception would be better with no more ghosting and/or snowy reception.A far as I'm concerned it IS better, but what do I know I'm just a guy with a proper antenna set up.

I guess you completely missed the point of that website...to sell test equipment. Just to clarify, I didn't miss any point of that article. I stated that it was an interesting read and nothing more.

Regardless, the real problem is STILL that people are using the wrong antennas, or doing things WRONG, and then when things don't work like they want them to they start complaining and blaming the TV stations/FCC/Government, etc.

If you want to receive OTA TV in Cincinnati, then get a properly sized VHF/UHF combo or other appropriate antenna set up and mount it on your roof, as the spec was designed for. If there are outside reasons keeping you from doing that, then do the best you can (attic, near window, etc.) but don't complain or blame someone else when it doesn't work. I mean, good luck getting DirecTV to listen to you complain when you can't receive satellite TV with a lamp shade in your basement.

And speaking of the leaves falling off the trees... I can now (barely) get WDTN and WPTD from Dayton again, but lost WHIO! I'm assuming some newly-formed multipath for WHIO is affecting me now.

Now that we're in the stage of the year where the trees are (mostly) bare, has this started to affect anyone else's reception? This is the first time where we've been operating in the post-analog transition in the fall and winter. I'd be interested to see if people's problems improve or get worse.

A far as I'm concerned it IS better, but what do I know I'm just a guy with a proper antenna set up.

Hey, I'm right there with you. However, if you remember all the commercials saying to get an antenna, the picture was of the crappy Terk fin looking thing and NOT a roof antenna. People thought a small indoor antenna would be all that was needed. Thanks to the government.

And speaking of the leaves falling off the trees... I can now (barely) get WDTN and WPTD from Dayton again, but lost WHIO! I'm assuming some newly-formed multipath for WHIO is affecting me now.

Now that we're in the stage of the year where the trees are (mostly) bare, has this started to affect anyone else's reception? This is the first time where we've been operating in the post-analog transition in the fall and winter. I'd be interested to see if people's problems improve or get worse.

The only station that has gotten bad for me is Dayton ch 22 WKEF. That station has always been 'borderline' due to my location but now it is regularly breaking up, if I can get it at all. Fortunately I don't care about 22 as I get every other Dayton station strong and stable as I always have, along with all of the Cincinnati stations.

The one time 22 came in handy was when that damn mayorial debate was on ch 9 and the family wanted I think Shark Tank. Since that is only very rarely, I can live (easily) without it.;)

Damn, ever since I ditched my cable box and switched to the $11.45/month basic tier I always said I don't miss it at all except for ESPN. Well, I'm really paying for it tonight since the UC game is on ESPN.

Seems like one of the local stations would have picked it up like they do when the Bungals used to be on prime time games...

OK, I vented. Now I bug my neighbors to see if I can join them, although I feel enticed to drink when I am there and really don't feel like it! :p

justin.tv or channelsurfing.net

Hi guys.

1. Can anyone recommend a reasonable roof antenna? Any good places to buy it and get it installed in town?

2. Any word on Time Warner carrying BBC America HD?

justin.tv or channelsurfing.net

Yea, it's just not the same though! I want to have at least SD pic quality and sit on the couch...

i will be there.. gettin my drink on! thats as hd as you get!

Hi guys.

1. Can anyone recommend a reasonable roof antenna? Any good places to buy it and get it installed in town?

2. Any word on Time Warner carrying BBC America HD?

You can PM me and we can discuss.:)

Any good places to buy it and get it installed in town?

TNT Picture Company (http://www.tntpicturecompany.com/contact.htm) installs antennas.

TNT Picture Company (http://www.tntpicturecompany.com/contact.htm) installs antennas.I had them do mine and am very happy with the results.

You can PM me and we can discuss.:)
Splicer ^ is probably a good option as well if he's doing antenna installs (you are, correct?) :)

Splicer ^ is probably a good option as well if he's doing antenna installs (you are, correct?) :)

Been doing them awhile now. :)

So ive been using a cheap $14 walmart indoor antenna for the last few weeks and love not having to pay for the major networks HD. Problem is that its haning on my wall 12 feet in the air and my guests are looking at me funny when they see it...I need to move to putting an outdoor antenna on the top edge outside of my house though and would like to put 4 screws in the siding and run coax down into the existing hole for the 2nd story. I dont have a chimney and dont want a huge tripod with a 43 element antenna on the house so I have been looking at the more funky, discreet, grey rectangle box antennas that are both uhf and vhf. I cant seem to find a review for any of those models...other restrictions are that I really dont want to have to run a ground and Im not looking for an amplified set up. If im getting most of the channels available now by hanging the cheap walmart jobbie on the inside of my house Im thinking I wont need much more of an antenna to keep getting those channels... thoughts?

So ive been using a cheap $14 walmart indoor antenna for the last few weeks and love not having to pay for the major networks HD...

How do the stations on high-VHF (WCPO and WKRC) come in? Do you have a lot of breakups or dropouts? That will be your biggest problem with that kind of antenna.

If you install the antenna outdoors, it must be grounded. It's not optional. You can avoid the ground by installing it in your attic.

What TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com/) say about reception in your location?

9 and 12 are more tempermental than say 5 or 19, but they have been going strong all night tonight. If the antenna is just laying behind the TV I dont get them, but when I throw it 9-10 feet in the air they come in pretty fine and dont cut out much at all. Yeah, I was wondering if the plastic jobbies had to be grounded or not I guess if thats the case I might go ahead and get a good antenna and throw it on the roof and split the feed so if I get another HD TV for downstairs. All the Cincy stations are North/NorthEast from me so I guess Ill go directional and not try to get any Lexington stations. Im in Elsmere and at one of the higher points in the town...BTW...The TVFool link is great, thanks. Much more technical than antennaweb.

9 and 12 are more tempermental than say 5 or 19, but they have been going strong all night tonight. If the antenna is just laying behind the TV I dont get them, but when I throw it 9-10 feet in the air they come in pretty fine and dont cut out much at all. Yeah, I was wondering if the plastic jobbies had to be grounded or not I guess if thats the case I might go ahead and get a good antenna and throw it on the roof and split the feed so if I get another HD TV for downstairs. All the Cincy stations are North/NorthEast from me so I guess Ill go directional and not try to get any Lexington stations. Im in Elsmere and at one of the higher points in the town...BTW...The TVFool link is great, thanks. Much more technical than antennaweb.
A hi-VHF and UHF combo antenna would be a good choice for you, and it would not be excessively large. It would be larger than the "grey box" antennas you're talking about, but those don't work that well anyway, especially on the VHF band (needed for WKRC, and also WCPO for the time being). Also, there are a wide variety of mounts that you could use other than chimney and tripods.

Here is one way to mount a mast without a tripod. It works well for me. You just may be able to get away using an Antennacraft U-4000 4 bay antenna for ch 9 & ch 12. Being outsideand up high there is no reason it wouldn't work for you. For Lexington stations I really wouldn't try. Unlikely you'd be very successful. You might get some stations from the Dayton (OH) market but you will need a pre amp and even then there would be no guarantee the signal would be consistent.

I have 3 antennas for my location and get 43 channels. 2 antennas are for the Cinti market and 1 for the Dayton market. I am 30+ miles from the transmitters and I use a pre-amp which is necessary. You should get approx 24 channels at your location.

A hi-VHF and UHF combo antenna would be a good choice for you, and it would not be excessively large. It would be larger than the "grey box" antennas you're talking about, but those don't work that well anyway, especially on the VHF band (needed for WKRC, and also WCPO for the time being).

How about a Clearstream 4? It's relatively compact and should still be sufficient to pick up both WCPO and WKRC from his distance.

How about a Clearstream 4? It's relatively compact and should still be sufficient to pick up both WCPO and WKRC from his distance.Clearstream 4 is a UHF-only antenna. It might work for VHF stations WCPO and WKRC, but I would not recommend that. There's no harm in trying, right? But at the same time, if you're going to go through the effort to do this, why not just do it right, and have it work properly.

The real question for Ron would be, do you want Dayton stations? I don't know exactly where you live (you can post your TVFool plot if you like which would be helpful), but based on TVFool results for Elsmere "generally," it looks like the Dayton stations should be very do-able. If you want the Dayton stations you will want a larger hi-VHF/UHF combo antenna with more gain. If all you want is Cincinnati, then you can get away with one of the most basic (and smaller) models of this type of antenna. The direction of Dayton and Cincinnati stations from you look to be almost identical, so you would not need a rotor or a second antenna.

For example, two options:

Winegard HD 7694P (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?d=Winegard-HD-7694P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HDHD769-Series-Antenna-%28HD7694P%29&p=HD7694P)
5' boom length
$60 including shipping at SolidSignal.com (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7694P&d=Winegard-HD-7694P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HDHD769-Series-Antenna-%28HD7694P%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798398446)


Winegard HD 7698P (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?d=Winegard-HD-7698P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HD769-Series-Antenna-%28HD7698P%29&p=HD7698P)
14' boom length
$118 + $27.95 shipping at SolidSignal.com (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7698P&d=Winegard-HD-7698P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HD769-Series-Antenna-%28HD7698P%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798398606)

The first one is quite small and would work perfectly for Cincinnati, and might receive some of Dayton if you are lucky. The second one is a long range antenna and should be able to receive Dayton as well. There are many other similar antennas and Winegard has a few models inbetween as well. Don't let the boom length scare you. Because these don't include the VHF-lo elements (unnecessary in our area since we don't have any stations on channels 2-6) they are actually quite narrow, and they will look MUCH smaller when they are on the roof.

If this all sounds too daunting you can always have a professional install it for you. I had TNT Picture Co (http://www.tntpicturecompany.com) do mine and am happy with their work and the price. You can also contact Splicer who is doing installs as well!

Clearstream 4 is a UHF-only antenna. It might work for VHF stations WCPO and WKRC, but I would not recommend that. There's no harm in trying, right? But at the same time, if you're going to go through the effort to do this, why not just do it right, and have it work properly.

It "Works For Me" (tm) quite well about 7 miles out and a line-of-sight from their towers. It may be a more viable option once WCPO goes to RF 22 since the loss on RF 12 isn't too bad.

We will get a total of 7 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 6 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Football:

8:20pm NFLN – Miami at Carolina$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC) Indianapolis at Baltimore
Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

1pm CBS (7 WHIO) Cleveland at Detroit*
Don Criqui, Randy Cross

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Washington at Dallas
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Oakland
Kevin Harlan, Solomon Wilcots

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Philadelphia at Chicago
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Tennessee at Houston+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Wow! Talk about a weekend full of stinker football games!

Can't complain however... the last few weeks have been absolute bliss if you are a OSU/UC/Bengals fan.

Wow! Talk about a weekend full of stinker football games!

Can't complain however... the last few weeks have been absolute bliss if you are a OSU/UC/Bengals fan.Yeah... 3 choices at 1pm will be nice though.

I'm not sure if it has been noted here or not, but I rescanned my channels today (from east of Dayton) and I noticed that channel 48 (CET / PBS) now has a 48-3 World channel. It is probably like the 14-4 channel, but I don't get that one all the time yet...

I'm not sure if it has been noted here or not, but I rescanned my channels today (from east of Dayton) and I noticed that channel 48 (CET / PBS) now has a 48-3 World channel. It is probably like the 14-4 channel, but I don't get that one all the time yet...

Both channels are different.

The only channels I don't receive is Dayton 7,22, and 45.

I'm not sure if it has been noted here or not, but I rescanned my channels today (from east of Dayton) and I noticed that channel 48 (CET / PBS) now has a 48-3 World channel. It is probably like the 14-4 channel, but I don't get that one all the time yet...They've had CET World on cable for some time, but stripped it out of the broadcast stream for OTA. A few months ago they had some technical issues and CET World showed upon 48-3 OTA and has been there ever since. There is some discussion on it some pages back.

Yeah... 3 choices at 1pm will be nice though.
If you call Cleveland/Detroit a "choice". ;) :D

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing Baltimore upset Indy... a couple of Indy losses and the Bengals could have homefield advantage through the playoffs! :)

(of course, the Bengals are playing better on the road....)

If you call Cleveland/Detroit a "choice". ;) :D

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing Baltimore upset Indy... a couple of Indy losses and the Bengals could have homefield advantage through the playoffs! :)

(of course, the Bengals are playing better on the road....)

I'd say they are better off playing on the road. Fewer chances for encounters with law enforcement!

Thanks for the suggestions all. I do note that i am not at the "peak" of the hill in my subdivision and I have other houses to the north-north east that I need to be pointing the antenna. I'm guessing Im 80 feet down from said peak, and Im assuming that means I am out of line of site with the towers. I have attached the tvfool report from my address, but didnt have the antenna elevation.

So it's Friday and I'd like to look into getting an antenna on the roof this weekend. Is there a local place that I can get a Winegard ( I see Meijer has them on their website, but I dont think they have them in-store) to install myself? I'm assuming with the larger boom, I would want a heavy duty tripod mounts, but can I get away with the angle mounts I see with the smaller ones? Or maybe just band clamping the antenna mast to the PVC vent on the roof as suggested?

Thanks again all!

I have seen them in the Deerfield Twp Meijer.

I have also seen outdoor antennas at Home Depot and Lowes, though I don't remember which brands they carry. A call ahead might do some good, but then again it might not. :-)

I think Jeff has in the past mentioned a place in Dayton called Wintronic. I believe this is their website and it might be worth a call to them to see, but I know that would be a pretty far drive from NKY.

http://www.daytonwintronic.com/

Don't try to band strap a mast on your roof. I got my vent pipe mast mount kit from Radio Shack. Not sure if they sell them still or not, I got them a couple of years ago. I would follow Jimps advice and look into Lowes or Home Depot first.

Also, any minimum # of elements or boom length I should be considering?

Thanks for the suggestions all. I do note that i am not at the "peak" of the hill in my subdivision and I have other houses to the north-north east that I need to be pointing the antenna. I'm guessing Im 80 feet down from said peak, and Im assuming that means I am out of line of site with the towers. I have attached the tvfool report from my address, but didnt have the antenna elevation.

So it's Friday and I'd like to look into getting an antenna on the roof this weekend. Is there a local place that I can get a Winegard ( I see Meijer has them on their website, but I dont think they have them in-store) to install myself? I'm assuming with the larger boom, I would want a heavy duty tripod mounts, but can I get away with the angle mounts I see with the smaller ones? Or maybe just band clamping the antenna mast to the PVC vent on the roof as suggested?

Thanks again all!
A good place to get all your electronics, parts, connectors, wire, and antennas and mounting stuff is www.mcmelectronics.com or call 1-800-543-4330. They ship to you next day or you can pick up at will call. They are in Centerville, Ohio.
We just go some #30-2155 UHF antennas @$20 bucks! Our Sales guy is going to try one this weekend, I'll let you know how it works out.
Here is the specs. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/30-2155.pdf

Elliott

Also, any minimum # of elements or boom length I should be considering?For just the Cincinnati stations you're probably fine with any antenna that covers channels 7-69 (at this time there is no need for channels 2-6) like the smaller antenna I linked to above. If you want to get Dayton reliably you probably need something like the larger antenna I linked to above. You still might get some Dayton stations with the smaller antenna but I would consider this a "bonus" if it happens.

Any word on WCPO going back over to UHF? I keep missing all my ABC shows now that I can't get it in & I don't wanna buy a VHF antenna for one channel since I get CBS in very easily and I also get the dayton CBS channel.

Especially you Jimp!

I found a guy selling a discontinued Antennacraft c480 that has a 12.5' boom on it for ~75 bucks. That may scare the small children in the neighborhood though. Im sure that sucker would pick up Dayton's stuff. Question though...is there that much more TV coming out of Dayton?

On Sunday you can watch the Browns play the Lions on WHIO :)

Oh also, the c480 is a large fringe antenna but a lot of its size is for channels 2-6 (the longer (width-wise) elements in the "back"). The UHF portion includes the "mouth" shaped reflectors, the bowtie, and the yagi (looks like this: -|-|-|-|-| ) in the "front".

Thanks again! So all that metal is for channels I dont need! Thanks! I may just start out with a 20 element antenna and see what it gets me.

I'm sure that sucker would pick up Dayton's stuff. Question though...is there that much more TV coming out of Dayton?

I am outside of Dayton, and a lot of the programming is the same. Some shows are on at different times, and I would estimate 10% of the shows are 'unique' to this area.

I have found that I get more programs that I want to watch from the Cincinnati area that aren't shown here though.

Sports would be the main reason I would look into it.

Especially you Jimp!

I found a guy selling a discontinued Antennacraft c480 that has a 12.5' boom on it for ~75 bucks. That may scare the small children in the neighborhood though. Im sure that sucker would pick up Dayton's stuff. Question though...is there that much more TV coming out of Dayton?

That antenna is way overkill and will be of no added benefit for its size. As I said before, don't discount the Antennacraft U-4000 so quickly. It will do what you need it to do. Believe me, picking up the Dayton stations isn't the problem. The problem is the reliability and stability of any Dayton signals you get.

As to what you'll get, the Dayton CW is in HD, the Cinti CW is not, so if there is any CW programming you like, that is a good reason to try and get it. But Dayton 26 isn't easy. Any non primetime, or network priority programming times, there is different programming which gives you more options. Weekends this is most evident. But look at my signature. I am 30+ miles from either market and I get 43 channels.

Hey Elliott. Since you're on, I guess you're aware that WOTH's programming guide has been off the air for a few days. I guess Shane is working on it. :)

I have attached the tvfool report from my address ..., but didnt have the antenna elevation.


Dayton stations are predicted to be quite weak At your location, likely mostly due to the terrain obstruction issues you mentioned(update -- Vs. the Generic Elsmere Plot, anyway) ....... Also keep in mind, while the effects of terrain are modelled by TVfool, Any additional Attenuation by trees, nearby houses/etc are not ... Also, IF I recall correctly, if you don't input a specific antenna height, the prediction is for a Receive antenna at rooftop level ...

Receive antenna Gain, Losses between antenna+Receiver, System/Receiver Noise Figure are also not modelled by TV Fool --- Which is actually a good thing, as any of those can vary quite a bit -- So, To get the most useful info from TVfool, You have to add/subtract those figures for your specific antenna setup(as described in TVfool Signal Analysis FAQ) --- There are also Lots of Useful tips/info in the TVfool Signal Analysis FAQ which should assist you regarding antenna selection/etc :

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57#how_to_read

Anyway, HD programming wise, In addition to CW HD, "sometimes" different NFL games/etc, Dayton Stations currently offer several syndicated Programs in HD which Cincinnati stations do not .... Dayton Examples would be ET, The Office(at least the last I checked WSTR, it wasn't HD), Seinfeld, CSI on weekend late nights .... Oh, BTW, if you're OSU fan, WKEF has "buckeye Fever" Widescreen ..........

---------------------------------------------------------------

Update: Oh, Forgot to mention --- WRGT 30 is predicted to be –61 dB down from First Adjacent channel WXIX 29 --- With only a 2 degree separation between them : In short, and without getting technical as to why this is, what that means is it is likely a “no go” for you having much luck with WRGT ….. One possibility, though which I can think of off hand that *Might* work involves a tuned cavity filter which would require a bit of engineering, skill and knowledge as well as $$$$ and expensive test equipment ...

…. Unfortunetly, WRGT is where HD versions of “The Office”, “Seinfeld” and (I think/If I recall Correctly) CSI:NY are, as well as some “different” Fox NFL games in some cases than what WXIX airs …. I think I may have also seen Seinfeld and CSI “something” in HD on WKEF some late night over the summer, however …….

Oh -- Also -- another potential issue you might want to think a bit about --- Given WCVN (KET) is about 60 Degrees off from the rest, an antenna with a fairly wide beamwidth might be a good choice(small hi-VHF/UHF combo such as jimp2244 suggested, or for UHF, a 2bay or 4 bay bowtie) , and The biggest potential problem issue there will not be "signal strength", but likely Multipath .... It's quite possible you won't have a problem with any of the Cincy area stations(Including KET/WCVN) regardless of what antenna you use, but (if Multipath *isn't* too severe an issue), if necessary, you may want/may be able to get away with aiming such an antenna somewhat "between" Cincy/Dayton and Taylor Mill/WCVN, although, that would probably not be ideal for reception of the weaker Dayton stations .... Otherwise -- You may need different antenna aiming for best results with WCVN vs The other Dayton/Cincinnati stations ....

The more directivity an antenna has, the tighter/narrower the beamwidth, and the More gain the antenna has --- Better directivity/more gain is good for weaker signals when the antenna is aimed right at the weak stations --- High directivity is also good If antenna is going to be aimed right at (or nearly so - within say - 10 degrees or so) each station you desire to receive as there's more rejection of multipath(or interference) coming in from directions antenna isn't aimed vs. using a antenna with less directivity(wider beamwidth)/Less Gain, but it's not necessarily so good if you're trying to use a single heading to receive stations over a fairly wide range of azimuth headings, which may very well be doable in your situation (For cincinnati+WCVN anyway ) .....

If you do run into problems receiving KET --- Another possibility(although a bit of a crazy one) that *might* work to some extent might involve actually aiming antenna at WKON (Also KET - Same programming as WCVN) and receiving the Cincy stations off the Back side of antenna ... You wouldn't get Dayton, That way, though ...

Believe me, picking up the Dayton stations isn't the problem. The problem is the reliability and stability of any Dayton signals you get.


Probably Multipath and/or Ground Clutter issues involved.

Combining antennas aimed in different directions onto the same feedline often exacerbates such issues. Often on a channel(frequency) specific basis -- i.e. -- some channels/stations transmitting from same or nearly same location may not seem to be effected while others are.

As, multipath (and sometimese "interference" laden) signal coming in off the back/side of antenna is "mixed in" with the "good" signal coming in off the properly(hopefully) aimed antenna, making it difficult for the Receiver's Front end and or adaptive equalizer or AGC circuit to sort out what is going on --- especially say, when you have lots of nearby trees being blown around in the wind ...

While there is no guarentee, Using properly aimed, outdoor high-gain directional antenna, and often, mounting it as high as is possible(and away from nearby any nearby obstructions/especially in the signal path) is usually the best potential solution to such problems ... If you're using an older receiver, upgrading to a Newer Receiver (such as one using a 6th generation 8VSB demod) can also do wonders regarding such matters ....

------------------------------------

... and, for those using UHF antennas on VHF (Not you) in strong signal areas and having problems .... when outdoor antenna is used -- It's not the lack of gain/negative gain of most UHF antennas on HI-VHF that's the problem in this case, instead, it's the lack of directivity of UHF antennas on VHF, which exacerbates multipath and/or interference issues .... The same is true indoors as well, but such problems become greater due to various sorts of electrical interference from various appliances in your home, and that the antenna becomes coupled to anything near it (and given the longer VHF wavelengths involved, more stuff is coupled to it ) -- In other words, nearby objects (including YOU while you're adjusting the antenna) effect the performance of the antenna ....

Hey Elliott. Since you're on, I guess you're aware that WOTH's programming guide has been off the air for a few days. I guess Shane is working on it. :)
Our program guide info. is sent to all listings services souch as the newspaper, TV guide, and the service that we use to up-date our mux's info that puts it in our program stream.
They are aware of the problem and they are working on some new software up-dates, till them, we will be off a hour. Shane is the one call and rasing h#%%.
You can get our schedule info from Decisionmark on our web sites, http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/basic.aspx?siteid=49826

Elliott

They are aware of the problem and they are working on some new software up-dates, till them, we will be off a hour. Shane is the one call and rasing h#%%.

Sounds great!

Also wkrp please bring back pro wrestling

Also wkrp please bring back pro wrestling

LOL!

Nooooo!
:D :eek: