Electrical interference will cause that. Dishwasher, someone going and turning on the bedroom or bathroom lights, or turning them off, etc...

I also noticed the glitch when WXIX-19 did their station ID during the Bengals game. Really sloppy, and the ID looked really primitive (no graphics, just text). And then at the end of the game, they switched to stretched-screen SD and, as others mentioned, cut off the Fox bonus coverage of other games.

FYI, Given we had discussed this earlier in thread :

FCC just granted WOTH-LP (analog) displacement CP for 19 :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1317887

FYI, Given we had discussed this earlier in thread :

FCC just granted WOTH-LP (analog) displacement CP for 19 :

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1317887
I could have sworn WOTH said they weren't going to move, despite that application. Since that CP is granted, it doesn't mean they have to use it though, right?

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Baltimore at Cincinnati
Dick Enberg, Dan Fouts

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) Arizona at Chicago*
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) San Diego at NY Giants
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

4pm FOX (19 WXIX) Carolina at New Orleans
Thom Brennaman, Brian Billick

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Dallas at Philadelphia
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Pittsburgh at Denver+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network (none this week)


Notes:
Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

I could have sworn WOTH said they weren't going to move, despite that application. Since that CP is granted, it doesn't mean they have to use it though, right?

I think this was their backup plan in case full-power WAVE in Louisville would displace low-power digital WOTH. Both are on RF 47.

Since that CP is granted, it doesn't mean they have to use it though, right?

No, they don't have to use it. The current CP for 19 is for analog operation, it was a displacement app for their analog station on channel 25 (apparently displaced by WBDT digital on 26) ....

What's the current status with WBQC's CP for channel 20? I thought they were going to have higher ERP on that channel.

What's the current status with WBQC's CP for channel 20? I thought they were going to have higher ERP on that channel.

The ERP is still 15kW (the same as digital WOTH). Their permit expires 8/13/2010. I hope they get it on the air by then. :)

The Bengals have not yet sold out. Last count they said 3,000 tickets remained for the game against the Ravens. They received a 24 hour extension so I expect to hear the sell-out announcement this afternoon. The axiom stating that extension = sell out has yet to be proven wrong.

The axiom stating that extension = sell out has yet to be proven wrong.

And that axiom still holds true. They did sell out. (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Blackout-lifted-game-will-air-locally/09a6cb29-2986-4b48-b42b-046ae4f0fdc5) Plus, the tickets (bought by Kroger) are going to members of the armed forces. :D

I'm in Independence in northern KY. My house sits on a high point in my neighborhood, but I'd prefer to stick with an indoor antenna. I've tried a couple of basic antennas in the same room as the TV's, but I can't get 25-WOTH and have trouble with some of the other channels available to our area. Is there any type of consensus as to an attic or other indoor antenna that is best for the northern KY area? Thanks.

Hello everyone,

Perhaps this is old news, but I have been noticing recently that the volume in the commercials is much higher than the show on most channels. Only a couple of years ago it seemed that this happened on a few channels and on occasion only, but now it seems as if it is the case all the time. It is annoying. I heard somewhere that the regulation is that the commercials cannot be louder than the loudest portion of the show, but it seems as if before it was closer to the mean volume and they have been pushing it higher and higher, close to the limit. Is this true? Or who can we complain to?

I'm in Independence in northern KY. My house sits on a high point in my neighborhood, but I'd prefer to stick with an indoor antenna. I've tried a couple of basic antennas in the same room as the TV's, but I can't get 25-WOTH and have trouble with some of the other channels available to our area. Is there any type of consensus as to an attic or other indoor antenna that is best for the northern KY area? Thanks.

Unfortunately, even if you're the highest point in the neighborhood, WOTH reception could be difficult, for the simple reason that even the highest portions of Independence aren't much higher than that antenna. (Looking at Google Earth, parts of Independence are at around 900 feet. I cannot access the FCC database due to upcoming maintenance, and it's not working now, but I believe the WOTH stick is somewhere between 850-875 feet. Maybe someone at WOTH can say for sure.)

I'd venture a guess that another signal you're having trouble with is WCPO. They have a Petition for Rulemaking (PRM) to abandon RF 10 (which is VHF) for RF 22 (UHF). Until that takes effect, you're going to have trouble as VHF has trouble with land based obstructions (not buildings, but trees, etc are a problem). For the same reason, WKRC-TV 12 might be a tough get until and unless they abandon RF 12.

UHF isn't without its problems - and in those cases, UHF tends to be affected by buildings. So downtown Cincinnati stands between you and a decent signal from those two towers, plus the WLWT tower (if WCPO AND WKRC both move). It can't take advantage of the ability to bounce from sky, to ground, then back up to the sky, etc., etc..

I expect WCPO to switch by mid-year 2010. That leaves WKRC on VHF - and if I needed to hazard the guess, I predict they'll soon file for a PRM. That, you have to think, will happen sooner rather than later - but where do they file to move? That's a query I'd need to research, and I don't think there's an open allocation out there on the UHF band for Cincinnati...

Channel 18.

- Trip

Channel 18.

- Trip

Thanks Trip! I didn't remember it - but you're right. They could use that. There would be no 1st/second adjacents on either side in Cincinnati - but, WPTD 16/Dayton is second adjacent in Dayton.

But...I expect there to be a filing for a PRM either way by WKRC.

WKRC's GM was quoted a few months ago as saying that they are staying where they are. WCPO's problem with Ch 10 has alot to do with intermod.

WKRC's GM was quoted a few months ago as saying that they are staying where they are. WCPO's problem with Ch 10 has alot to do with intermod.

I'm not surprised they're going to stay there. But if they moved I wouldn't blame them. Think about it...they'd be the ONLY VHF station in what would otherwise be a UHF market. Would they want to be in that position?? I doubt it.

If WKRC follows suit withe WCPO, that would piss off ALOT of people (my antenna customers for example) who have a seperate VHF antenna for those 2 channels. The expense and the hassle of getting it mounted and lined up and working properly with a seperate UHF antenna wasn't taken lightly. While WKRC staying put is helpful, and the fact that the VHF antenna brings in FM stereo perfectly, and also having additional stations available in FM (for those that care), some will still be upset.

I have already gotten calls from people that have read about WCPO and were mad that I sold them a soon to be worthless antenna. I have had to explain about WKRC still being on VHF and the possibilities for FM, but you can tell from the tone of the conversation they still aren't happy with all that is going on with OTA television now.

ABC drops in coverage scope (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011085.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=bd_tv)

Apparently since the digital conversion, the major broadcasters lost 1% of their viewership except ABC - which lost 2%!

(insert WCPO rant here)

ABC drops in coverage scope (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011085.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=bd_tv)

Apparently since the digital conversion, the major broadcasters lost 1% of their viewership except ABC - which lost 2%!

(insert WCPO rant here)I'm not sure how that article measured viewership -- I do see that Nielsen is involved though. However, I believe the FCC predicted coverage areas are calculated assuming an outdoor, directional antenna (which is also the spec that digital TV -- as well as analog tv -- were designed for).

Take a look at the FCC's predicted change in coverage as a result of the digital transition (page 5 of the below PDF link). As you can see, the FCC predicted an increase in coverage for WCPO of over 378,000 people. If you assume that all viewers have proper antenna set ups, I think this prediction is quite accurate. However, the reality is that there are many people who have indoor antennas, UHF-only antennas, or other improper set ups, and those viewers complain because they are able to receive the other stations in the area.

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/Cincinnati_OH.pdf


The following article is some additional interesting reading regarding the DTV transition, and the author proposes that many station engineers lack the experience and/or equipment to properly test and "tune" the signal being broadcast from their towers.

http://www.modsci.com/wordpress/?p=11

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 6 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Football:

8:20pm NFLN – Chicago at San Francisco$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Pittsburgh
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Atlanta at Carolina Detroit at Minnesota
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa Sam Rosen, Tim Ryan

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Dallas at Green Bay
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – New England at Indianapolis
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Baltimore at Cleveland+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


UPDATE: 11/11 2:30pm (Fox 1pm game).

Notes:
Enjoy Phil "Bandwagon" Simms and the "Bingles" ;)
As of last check, Cleveland has yet to sell out their Monday night game against the Ravens. I'm guessing they will sell out, but if they don't it would be quite interesting to have that blacked out locally for Cleveland, even though it would not affect TV coverage in the Cincinnati area.

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

I'm surprised the NFL doesn't use their re-scheduling privilege more for games such as Baltimore @ Cleveland. The Cincy/Pittsburgh game would be awesome this Monday night, although I think the ticket holders would be pissed when their plans and reservations are screwed.

I'm surprised the NFL doesn't use their re-scheduling privilege more for games such as Baltimore @ Cleveland. The Cincy/Pittsburgh game would be awesome this Monday night, although I think the ticket holders would be pissed when their plans and reservations are screwed.Flex can only be used on Sunday night games later in the season. Monday night games are set in stone unfortunately.

I can't seem to get ABC in for about a week. Have they changed anything lately? I have a rooftop antenna a DB8 and I was getting it in fine but then all the sudden since last week I haven't been able to get it back in. The only thing that's change with the antenna is I recently hid the cable on the outside of my house a little better but I made sure that it never went at a 90 degree angle anywhere. Its weird I guess I'll just have to play with it some more to see what happened.

DB8 is UHF antenna. Reorientating a bit of the coax (especially nearer the antenna) certianly could have effected things a bit.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/DB8.html

DB8 is also mentioned in the section "Using a UHF antenna for VHF" on this page :

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Specifically, where it says :


..... Other 8-bays, like the 8800 and the DB-8, have a reflector that is not continuous across the right and left halves, and thus they have no useful gain for VHF.

I can't seem to get ABC in for about a week. Have they changed anything lately? I have a rooftop antenna a DB8 and I was getting it in fine but then all the sudden since last week I haven't been able to get it back in. The only thing that's change with the antenna is I recently hid the cable on the outside of my house a little better but I made sure that it never went at a 90 degree angle anywhere. Its weird I guess I'll just have to play with it some more to see what happened.

Another consideration is that most of the leaves are off the trees now and that introduces both a gain in the signal received (since the leaves on the trees act as attenuators) and an increase in multipath, which could clobber the signal.

The following article is some additional interesting reading regarding the DTV transition, and the author proposes that many station engineers lack the experience and/or equipment to properly test and "tune" the signal being broadcast from their towers.

http://www.modsci.com/wordpress/?p=11

I guess you completely missed the point of that website...to sell test equipment. That article may have a valid point out in the boonies where test equipment budgets are non-existant but not here.

We've had a good handle on our RF performance since day one. In fact, the Harris transmitter with the Apex exciters used by us has a lot of the data available right in the transmitter displays. We also have outboard 8VSB analyzers that cost more than my car to confirm what those displays are telling us.

If you want to improve digital TV reception on VHF, the first thing we need to do is hold public floggings for the managers of every big box store and manufacturer that have marketed a 6" piece of plastic and tin as a "high definition antenna".

I've personally handled dozens of calls where my advice to ditch the fancy plastic and fire up a set of good old rabbit ears did the trick.

After the inappropriate antenna question is solved we'll work our way through the multipath alleys like Saylor Park, Anderson Ferry and similar areas where they were never able to get a clean signal on Channel 12 analog but are now expecting digital to solve their problems.

And the people that have had cable for 20 years and didn't even know they need an antenna for OTA. Some of them actually CAN see some UHF on the center conductor of the F connector on the back of their box so they think you're lying when you make the suggestion.

Meanwhile, we'll take the money that we used to shovel at Duke Energy (we've reduced our power draw by 93%) and try to amortize the huge amount of money we've already spent to show you the extra set on either side of Rob & Kit (we still have to frame the camera shots 4:3 for all the converter boxes).

Since the even-more-depressed ad market these days won't pay a dime extra for HD, the only ways we've found so far to make this money back is the light bill savings and the much reviled CW sub channel.

And if we're really lucky they'll let a few of us stick around to work through the technical details of whatever comes next.

If sometimes we don't live up to your expectations it's not because the engineering community in this town doesn't knows what it's doing.

</RANT>


(My employer has never been able to control what comes out of my mouth so the preceeding was brought to you be me and me alone)

another consideration is that most of the leaves are off the trees now and that introduces both a gain in the signal received (since the leaves on the trees act as attenuators) and an increase in multipath, which could clobber the signal.

Bingo!:)

If you want to improve digital TV reception on VHF, the first thing we need to do is hold public floggings for the managers of every big box store and manufacturer that have marketed a 6" piece of plastic and tin as a "high definition antenna".I couldn't agree with you more.After the inappropriate antenna question is solved we'll work our way through the multipath alleys like Saylor Park, Anderson Ferry and similar areas where they were never able to get a clean signal on Channel 12 analog but are now expecting digital to solve their problems.And this is the fault of our government telling the public the reception would be better with no more ghosting and/or snowy reception.

I couldn't agree with you more.And this is the fault of our government telling the public the reception would be better with no more ghosting and/or snowy reception.A far as I'm concerned it IS better, but what do I know I'm just a guy with a proper antenna set up.

I guess you completely missed the point of that website...to sell test equipment. Just to clarify, I didn't miss any point of that article. I stated that it was an interesting read and nothing more.

Regardless, the real problem is STILL that people are using the wrong antennas, or doing things WRONG, and then when things don't work like they want them to they start complaining and blaming the TV stations/FCC/Government, etc.

If you want to receive OTA TV in Cincinnati, then get a properly sized VHF/UHF combo or other appropriate antenna set up and mount it on your roof, as the spec was designed for. If there are outside reasons keeping you from doing that, then do the best you can (attic, near window, etc.) but don't complain or blame someone else when it doesn't work. I mean, good luck getting DirecTV to listen to you complain when you can't receive satellite TV with a lamp shade in your basement.

And speaking of the leaves falling off the trees... I can now (barely) get WDTN and WPTD from Dayton again, but lost WHIO! I'm assuming some newly-formed multipath for WHIO is affecting me now.

Now that we're in the stage of the year where the trees are (mostly) bare, has this started to affect anyone else's reception? This is the first time where we've been operating in the post-analog transition in the fall and winter. I'd be interested to see if people's problems improve or get worse.

A far as I'm concerned it IS better, but what do I know I'm just a guy with a proper antenna set up.

Hey, I'm right there with you. However, if you remember all the commercials saying to get an antenna, the picture was of the crappy Terk fin looking thing and NOT a roof antenna. People thought a small indoor antenna would be all that was needed. Thanks to the government.

And speaking of the leaves falling off the trees... I can now (barely) get WDTN and WPTD from Dayton again, but lost WHIO! I'm assuming some newly-formed multipath for WHIO is affecting me now.

Now that we're in the stage of the year where the trees are (mostly) bare, has this started to affect anyone else's reception? This is the first time where we've been operating in the post-analog transition in the fall and winter. I'd be interested to see if people's problems improve or get worse.

The only station that has gotten bad for me is Dayton ch 22 WKEF. That station has always been 'borderline' due to my location but now it is regularly breaking up, if I can get it at all. Fortunately I don't care about 22 as I get every other Dayton station strong and stable as I always have, along with all of the Cincinnati stations.

The one time 22 came in handy was when that damn mayorial debate was on ch 9 and the family wanted I think Shark Tank. Since that is only very rarely, I can live (easily) without it.;)

Damn, ever since I ditched my cable box and switched to the $11.45/month basic tier I always said I don't miss it at all except for ESPN. Well, I'm really paying for it tonight since the UC game is on ESPN.

Seems like one of the local stations would have picked it up like they do when the Bungals used to be on prime time games...

OK, I vented. Now I bug my neighbors to see if I can join them, although I feel enticed to drink when I am there and really don't feel like it! :p

justin.tv or channelsurfing.net

Hi guys.

1. Can anyone recommend a reasonable roof antenna? Any good places to buy it and get it installed in town?

2. Any word on Time Warner carrying BBC America HD?

justin.tv or channelsurfing.net

Yea, it's just not the same though! I want to have at least SD pic quality and sit on the couch...

i will be there.. gettin my drink on! thats as hd as you get!

Hi guys.

1. Can anyone recommend a reasonable roof antenna? Any good places to buy it and get it installed in town?

2. Any word on Time Warner carrying BBC America HD?

You can PM me and we can discuss.:)

Any good places to buy it and get it installed in town?

TNT Picture Company (http://www.tntpicturecompany.com/contact.htm) installs antennas.

TNT Picture Company (http://www.tntpicturecompany.com/contact.htm) installs antennas.I had them do mine and am very happy with the results.

You can PM me and we can discuss.:)
Splicer ^ is probably a good option as well if he's doing antenna installs (you are, correct?) :)

Splicer ^ is probably a good option as well if he's doing antenna installs (you are, correct?) :)

Been doing them awhile now. :)

So ive been using a cheap $14 walmart indoor antenna for the last few weeks and love not having to pay for the major networks HD. Problem is that its haning on my wall 12 feet in the air and my guests are looking at me funny when they see it...I need to move to putting an outdoor antenna on the top edge outside of my house though and would like to put 4 screws in the siding and run coax down into the existing hole for the 2nd story. I dont have a chimney and dont want a huge tripod with a 43 element antenna on the house so I have been looking at the more funky, discreet, grey rectangle box antennas that are both uhf and vhf. I cant seem to find a review for any of those models...other restrictions are that I really dont want to have to run a ground and Im not looking for an amplified set up. If im getting most of the channels available now by hanging the cheap walmart jobbie on the inside of my house Im thinking I wont need much more of an antenna to keep getting those channels... thoughts?

So ive been using a cheap $14 walmart indoor antenna for the last few weeks and love not having to pay for the major networks HD...

How do the stations on high-VHF (WCPO and WKRC) come in? Do you have a lot of breakups or dropouts? That will be your biggest problem with that kind of antenna.

If you install the antenna outdoors, it must be grounded. It's not optional. You can avoid the ground by installing it in your attic.

What TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com/) say about reception in your location?

9 and 12 are more tempermental than say 5 or 19, but they have been going strong all night tonight. If the antenna is just laying behind the TV I dont get them, but when I throw it 9-10 feet in the air they come in pretty fine and dont cut out much at all. Yeah, I was wondering if the plastic jobbies had to be grounded or not I guess if thats the case I might go ahead and get a good antenna and throw it on the roof and split the feed so if I get another HD TV for downstairs. All the Cincy stations are North/NorthEast from me so I guess Ill go directional and not try to get any Lexington stations. Im in Elsmere and at one of the higher points in the town...BTW...The TVFool link is great, thanks. Much more technical than antennaweb.

9 and 12 are more tempermental than say 5 or 19, but they have been going strong all night tonight. If the antenna is just laying behind the TV I dont get them, but when I throw it 9-10 feet in the air they come in pretty fine and dont cut out much at all. Yeah, I was wondering if the plastic jobbies had to be grounded or not I guess if thats the case I might go ahead and get a good antenna and throw it on the roof and split the feed so if I get another HD TV for downstairs. All the Cincy stations are North/NorthEast from me so I guess Ill go directional and not try to get any Lexington stations. Im in Elsmere and at one of the higher points in the town...BTW...The TVFool link is great, thanks. Much more technical than antennaweb.
A hi-VHF and UHF combo antenna would be a good choice for you, and it would not be excessively large. It would be larger than the "grey box" antennas you're talking about, but those don't work that well anyway, especially on the VHF band (needed for WKRC, and also WCPO for the time being). Also, there are a wide variety of mounts that you could use other than chimney and tripods.

Here is one way to mount a mast without a tripod. It works well for me. You just may be able to get away using an Antennacraft U-4000 4 bay antenna for ch 9 & ch 12. Being outsideand up high there is no reason it wouldn't work for you. For Lexington stations I really wouldn't try. Unlikely you'd be very successful. You might get some stations from the Dayton (OH) market but you will need a pre amp and even then there would be no guarantee the signal would be consistent.

I have 3 antennas for my location and get 43 channels. 2 antennas are for the Cinti market and 1 for the Dayton market. I am 30+ miles from the transmitters and I use a pre-amp which is necessary. You should get approx 24 channels at your location.

A hi-VHF and UHF combo antenna would be a good choice for you, and it would not be excessively large. It would be larger than the "grey box" antennas you're talking about, but those don't work that well anyway, especially on the VHF band (needed for WKRC, and also WCPO for the time being).

How about a Clearstream 4? It's relatively compact and should still be sufficient to pick up both WCPO and WKRC from his distance.

How about a Clearstream 4? It's relatively compact and should still be sufficient to pick up both WCPO and WKRC from his distance.Clearstream 4 is a UHF-only antenna. It might work for VHF stations WCPO and WKRC, but I would not recommend that. There's no harm in trying, right? But at the same time, if you're going to go through the effort to do this, why not just do it right, and have it work properly.

The real question for Ron would be, do you want Dayton stations? I don't know exactly where you live (you can post your TVFool plot if you like which would be helpful), but based on TVFool results for Elsmere "generally," it looks like the Dayton stations should be very do-able. If you want the Dayton stations you will want a larger hi-VHF/UHF combo antenna with more gain. If all you want is Cincinnati, then you can get away with one of the most basic (and smaller) models of this type of antenna. The direction of Dayton and Cincinnati stations from you look to be almost identical, so you would not need a rotor or a second antenna.

For example, two options:

Winegard HD 7694P (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?d=Winegard-HD-7694P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HDHD769-Series-Antenna-%28HD7694P%29&p=HD7694P)
5' boom length
$60 including shipping at SolidSignal.com (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7694P&d=Winegard-HD-7694P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HDHD769-Series-Antenna-%28HD7694P%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798398446)


Winegard HD 7698P (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?d=Winegard-HD-7698P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HD769-Series-Antenna-%28HD7698P%29&p=HD7698P)
14' boom length
$118 + $27.95 shipping at SolidSignal.com (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7698P&d=Winegard-HD-7698P-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HD769-Series-Antenna-%28HD7698P%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798398606)

The first one is quite small and would work perfectly for Cincinnati, and might receive some of Dayton if you are lucky. The second one is a long range antenna and should be able to receive Dayton as well. There are many other similar antennas and Winegard has a few models inbetween as well. Don't let the boom length scare you. Because these don't include the VHF-lo elements (unnecessary in our area since we don't have any stations on channels 2-6) they are actually quite narrow, and they will look MUCH smaller when they are on the roof.

If this all sounds too daunting you can always have a professional install it for you. I had TNT Picture Co (http://www.tntpicturecompany.com) do mine and am happy with their work and the price. You can also contact Splicer who is doing installs as well!

Clearstream 4 is a UHF-only antenna. It might work for VHF stations WCPO and WKRC, but I would not recommend that. There's no harm in trying, right? But at the same time, if you're going to go through the effort to do this, why not just do it right, and have it work properly.

It "Works For Me" (tm) quite well about 7 miles out and a line-of-sight from their towers. It may be a more viable option once WCPO goes to RF 22 since the loss on RF 12 isn't too bad.

We will get a total of 7 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 6 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Football:

8:20pm NFLN – Miami at Carolina$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC) Indianapolis at Baltimore
Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

1pm CBS (7 WHIO) Cleveland at Detroit*
Don Criqui, Randy Cross

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Washington at Dallas
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Oakland
Kevin Harlan, Solomon Wilcots

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Philadelphia at Chicago
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Tennessee at Houston+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Wow! Talk about a weekend full of stinker football games!

Can't complain however... the last few weeks have been absolute bliss if you are a OSU/UC/Bengals fan.

Wow! Talk about a weekend full of stinker football games!

Can't complain however... the last few weeks have been absolute bliss if you are a OSU/UC/Bengals fan.Yeah... 3 choices at 1pm will be nice though.

I'm not sure if it has been noted here or not, but I rescanned my channels today (from east of Dayton) and I noticed that channel 48 (CET / PBS) now has a 48-3 World channel. It is probably like the 14-4 channel, but I don't get that one all the time yet...

I'm not sure if it has been noted here or not, but I rescanned my channels today (from east of Dayton) and I noticed that channel 48 (CET / PBS) now has a 48-3 World channel. It is probably like the 14-4 channel, but I don't get that one all the time yet...

Both channels are different.

The only channels I don't receive is Dayton 7,22, and 45.

I'm not sure if it has been noted here or not, but I rescanned my channels today (from east of Dayton) and I noticed that channel 48 (CET / PBS) now has a 48-3 World channel. It is probably like the 14-4 channel, but I don't get that one all the time yet...They've had CET World on cable for some time, but stripped it out of the broadcast stream for OTA. A few months ago they had some technical issues and CET World showed upon 48-3 OTA and has been there ever since. There is some discussion on it some pages back.

Yeah... 3 choices at 1pm will be nice though.
If you call Cleveland/Detroit a "choice". ;) :D

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing Baltimore upset Indy... a couple of Indy losses and the Bengals could have homefield advantage through the playoffs! :)

(of course, the Bengals are playing better on the road....)

If you call Cleveland/Detroit a "choice". ;) :D

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing Baltimore upset Indy... a couple of Indy losses and the Bengals could have homefield advantage through the playoffs! :)

(of course, the Bengals are playing better on the road....)

I'd say they are better off playing on the road. Fewer chances for encounters with law enforcement!

Thanks for the suggestions all. I do note that i am not at the "peak" of the hill in my subdivision and I have other houses to the north-north east that I need to be pointing the antenna. I'm guessing Im 80 feet down from said peak, and Im assuming that means I am out of line of site with the towers. I have attached the tvfool report from my address, but didnt have the antenna elevation.

So it's Friday and I'd like to look into getting an antenna on the roof this weekend. Is there a local place that I can get a Winegard ( I see Meijer has them on their website, but I dont think they have them in-store) to install myself? I'm assuming with the larger boom, I would want a heavy duty tripod mounts, but can I get away with the angle mounts I see with the smaller ones? Or maybe just band clamping the antenna mast to the PVC vent on the roof as suggested?

Thanks again all!

I have seen them in the Deerfield Twp Meijer.

I have also seen outdoor antennas at Home Depot and Lowes, though I don't remember which brands they carry. A call ahead might do some good, but then again it might not. :-)

I think Jeff has in the past mentioned a place in Dayton called Wintronic. I believe this is their website and it might be worth a call to them to see, but I know that would be a pretty far drive from NKY.

http://www.daytonwintronic.com/

Don't try to band strap a mast on your roof. I got my vent pipe mast mount kit from Radio Shack. Not sure if they sell them still or not, I got them a couple of years ago. I would follow Jimps advice and look into Lowes or Home Depot first.

Also, any minimum # of elements or boom length I should be considering?

Thanks for the suggestions all. I do note that i am not at the "peak" of the hill in my subdivision and I have other houses to the north-north east that I need to be pointing the antenna. I'm guessing Im 80 feet down from said peak, and Im assuming that means I am out of line of site with the towers. I have attached the tvfool report from my address, but didnt have the antenna elevation.

So it's Friday and I'd like to look into getting an antenna on the roof this weekend. Is there a local place that I can get a Winegard ( I see Meijer has them on their website, but I dont think they have them in-store) to install myself? I'm assuming with the larger boom, I would want a heavy duty tripod mounts, but can I get away with the angle mounts I see with the smaller ones? Or maybe just band clamping the antenna mast to the PVC vent on the roof as suggested?

Thanks again all!
A good place to get all your electronics, parts, connectors, wire, and antennas and mounting stuff is www.mcmelectronics.com or call 1-800-543-4330. They ship to you next day or you can pick up at will call. They are in Centerville, Ohio.
We just go some #30-2155 UHF antennas @$20 bucks! Our Sales guy is going to try one this weekend, I'll let you know how it works out.
Here is the specs. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/30-2155.pdf

Elliott

Also, any minimum # of elements or boom length I should be considering?For just the Cincinnati stations you're probably fine with any antenna that covers channels 7-69 (at this time there is no need for channels 2-6) like the smaller antenna I linked to above. If you want to get Dayton reliably you probably need something like the larger antenna I linked to above. You still might get some Dayton stations with the smaller antenna but I would consider this a "bonus" if it happens.

Any word on WCPO going back over to UHF? I keep missing all my ABC shows now that I can't get it in & I don't wanna buy a VHF antenna for one channel since I get CBS in very easily and I also get the dayton CBS channel.

Especially you Jimp!

I found a guy selling a discontinued Antennacraft c480 that has a 12.5' boom on it for ~75 bucks. That may scare the small children in the neighborhood though. Im sure that sucker would pick up Dayton's stuff. Question though...is there that much more TV coming out of Dayton?

On Sunday you can watch the Browns play the Lions on WHIO :)

Oh also, the c480 is a large fringe antenna but a lot of its size is for channels 2-6 (the longer (width-wise) elements in the "back"). The UHF portion includes the "mouth" shaped reflectors, the bowtie, and the yagi (looks like this: -|-|-|-|-| ) in the "front".

Thanks again! So all that metal is for channels I dont need! Thanks! I may just start out with a 20 element antenna and see what it gets me.

I'm sure that sucker would pick up Dayton's stuff. Question though...is there that much more TV coming out of Dayton?

I am outside of Dayton, and a lot of the programming is the same. Some shows are on at different times, and I would estimate 10% of the shows are 'unique' to this area.

I have found that I get more programs that I want to watch from the Cincinnati area that aren't shown here though.

Sports would be the main reason I would look into it.

Especially you Jimp!

I found a guy selling a discontinued Antennacraft c480 that has a 12.5' boom on it for ~75 bucks. That may scare the small children in the neighborhood though. Im sure that sucker would pick up Dayton's stuff. Question though...is there that much more TV coming out of Dayton?

That antenna is way overkill and will be of no added benefit for its size. As I said before, don't discount the Antennacraft U-4000 so quickly. It will do what you need it to do. Believe me, picking up the Dayton stations isn't the problem. The problem is the reliability and stability of any Dayton signals you get.

As to what you'll get, the Dayton CW is in HD, the Cinti CW is not, so if there is any CW programming you like, that is a good reason to try and get it. But Dayton 26 isn't easy. Any non primetime, or network priority programming times, there is different programming which gives you more options. Weekends this is most evident. But look at my signature. I am 30+ miles from either market and I get 43 channels.

Hey Elliott. Since you're on, I guess you're aware that WOTH's programming guide has been off the air for a few days. I guess Shane is working on it. :)

I have attached the tvfool report from my address ..., but didnt have the antenna elevation.


Dayton stations are predicted to be quite weak At your location, likely mostly due to the terrain obstruction issues you mentioned(update -- Vs. the Generic Elsmere Plot, anyway) ....... Also keep in mind, while the effects of terrain are modelled by TVfool, Any additional Attenuation by trees, nearby houses/etc are not ... Also, IF I recall correctly, if you don't input a specific antenna height, the prediction is for a Receive antenna at rooftop level ...

Receive antenna Gain, Losses between antenna+Receiver, System/Receiver Noise Figure are also not modelled by TV Fool --- Which is actually a good thing, as any of those can vary quite a bit -- So, To get the most useful info from TVfool, You have to add/subtract those figures for your specific antenna setup(as described in TVfool Signal Analysis FAQ) --- There are also Lots of Useful tips/info in the TVfool Signal Analysis FAQ which should assist you regarding antenna selection/etc :

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57#how_to_read

Anyway, HD programming wise, In addition to CW HD, "sometimes" different NFL games/etc, Dayton Stations currently offer several syndicated Programs in HD which Cincinnati stations do not .... Dayton Examples would be ET, The Office(at least the last I checked WSTR, it wasn't HD), Seinfeld, CSI on weekend late nights .... Oh, BTW, if you're OSU fan, WKEF has "buckeye Fever" Widescreen ..........

---------------------------------------------------------------

Update: Oh, Forgot to mention --- WRGT 30 is predicted to be –61 dB down from First Adjacent channel WXIX 29 --- With only a 2 degree separation between them : In short, and without getting technical as to why this is, what that means is it is likely a “no go” for you having much luck with WRGT ….. One possibility, though which I can think of off hand that *Might* work involves a tuned cavity filter which would require a bit of engineering, skill and knowledge as well as $$$$ and expensive test equipment ...

…. Unfortunetly, WRGT is where HD versions of “The Office”, “Seinfeld” and (I think/If I recall Correctly) CSI:NY are, as well as some “different” Fox NFL games in some cases than what WXIX airs …. I think I may have also seen Seinfeld and CSI “something” in HD on WKEF some late night over the summer, however …….

Oh -- Also -- another potential issue you might want to think a bit about --- Given WCVN (KET) is about 60 Degrees off from the rest, an antenna with a fairly wide beamwidth might be a good choice(small hi-VHF/UHF combo such as jimp2244 suggested, or for UHF, a 2bay or 4 bay bowtie) , and The biggest potential problem issue there will not be "signal strength", but likely Multipath .... It's quite possible you won't have a problem with any of the Cincy area stations(Including KET/WCVN) regardless of what antenna you use, but (if Multipath *isn't* too severe an issue), if necessary, you may want/may be able to get away with aiming such an antenna somewhat "between" Cincy/Dayton and Taylor Mill/WCVN, although, that would probably not be ideal for reception of the weaker Dayton stations .... Otherwise -- You may need different antenna aiming for best results with WCVN vs The other Dayton/Cincinnati stations ....

The more directivity an antenna has, the tighter/narrower the beamwidth, and the More gain the antenna has --- Better directivity/more gain is good for weaker signals when the antenna is aimed right at the weak stations --- High directivity is also good If antenna is going to be aimed right at (or nearly so - within say - 10 degrees or so) each station you desire to receive as there's more rejection of multipath(or interference) coming in from directions antenna isn't aimed vs. using a antenna with less directivity(wider beamwidth)/Less Gain, but it's not necessarily so good if you're trying to use a single heading to receive stations over a fairly wide range of azimuth headings, which may very well be doable in your situation (For cincinnati+WCVN anyway ) .....

If you do run into problems receiving KET --- Another possibility(although a bit of a crazy one) that *might* work to some extent might involve actually aiming antenna at WKON (Also KET - Same programming as WCVN) and receiving the Cincy stations off the Back side of antenna ... You wouldn't get Dayton, That way, though ...

Believe me, picking up the Dayton stations isn't the problem. The problem is the reliability and stability of any Dayton signals you get.


Probably Multipath and/or Ground Clutter issues involved.

Combining antennas aimed in different directions onto the same feedline often exacerbates such issues. Often on a channel(frequency) specific basis -- i.e. -- some channels/stations transmitting from same or nearly same location may not seem to be effected while others are.

As, multipath (and sometimese "interference" laden) signal coming in off the back/side of antenna is "mixed in" with the "good" signal coming in off the properly(hopefully) aimed antenna, making it difficult for the Receiver's Front end and or adaptive equalizer or AGC circuit to sort out what is going on --- especially say, when you have lots of nearby trees being blown around in the wind ...

While there is no guarentee, Using properly aimed, outdoor high-gain directional antenna, and often, mounting it as high as is possible(and away from nearby any nearby obstructions/especially in the signal path) is usually the best potential solution to such problems ... If you're using an older receiver, upgrading to a Newer Receiver (such as one using a 6th generation 8VSB demod) can also do wonders regarding such matters ....

------------------------------------

... and, for those using UHF antennas on VHF (Not you) in strong signal areas and having problems .... when outdoor antenna is used -- It's not the lack of gain/negative gain of most UHF antennas on HI-VHF that's the problem in this case, instead, it's the lack of directivity of UHF antennas on VHF, which exacerbates multipath and/or interference issues .... The same is true indoors as well, but such problems become greater due to various sorts of electrical interference from various appliances in your home, and that the antenna becomes coupled to anything near it (and given the longer VHF wavelengths involved, more stuff is coupled to it ) -- In other words, nearby objects (including YOU while you're adjusting the antenna) effect the performance of the antenna ....

Hey Elliott. Since you're on, I guess you're aware that WOTH's programming guide has been off the air for a few days. I guess Shane is working on it. :)
Our program guide info. is sent to all listings services souch as the newspaper, TV guide, and the service that we use to up-date our mux's info that puts it in our program stream.
They are aware of the problem and they are working on some new software up-dates, till them, we will be off a hour. Shane is the one call and rasing h#%%.
You can get our schedule info from Decisionmark on our web sites, http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/basic.aspx?siteid=49826

Elliott

They are aware of the problem and they are working on some new software up-dates, till them, we will be off a hour. Shane is the one call and rasing h#%%.

Sounds great!

Also wkrp please bring back pro wrestling

Also wkrp please bring back pro wrestling

LOL!

Nooooo!
:D :eek:

Our program guide info. is sent to all listings services souch as the newspaper, TV guide, and the service that we use to up-date our mux's info that puts it in our program stream.
They are aware of the problem and they are working on some new software up-dates, till them, we will be off a hour.


As for the EPG info via WOTH-LD's PSIP EIT's, OTA --- It was off an hour (but still present) for about a week or so past the EDT-->>EST time Change, but more recently(including currently) there has been no EPG info, and for that matter, no EITs Present in WOTH-LD's Transport Stream .....

Other PSIP (such as STT, TVCT info) seem fine ...

Hope that helps ....

Oh, BTW, the same thing occurs frequently from WHIO (no EPG info/No EIT's) For some reason (moreso than any other station in area currently), as has been the case from them over the weekend, and currently .... One difference of course is that WHIO as a full service station is required by FCC to populate EIT's with useful program guide info out 12 hours, WOTH is not .....

Did anyone else notice (TW Cable via HD Converter box) that the picture looked blocky and jagged? I was wondering if I was the only one. It looked horrible.

Did anyone else notice (TW Cable via HD Converter box) that the picture looked blocky and jagged? I was wondering if I was the only one. It looked horrible.Yes, saw it OTA as well but that's pretty standard as far as what we get from WKRC. Their stat mux varies from about 8 or 9Mbps up to 16Mbps and that's just not enough bandwidth for 1080i HD. Compare it to NBC Sunday Night Football on WLWT which looks MUCH better at a constant 16.5 to 17Mbps.

WKRC also still has the focus/blur issue (during a scene change the picture will get fuzzy/out of "focus" and then slowly get clearer) even though the fix (turn off adaptive filtering on your flexicoder!) is well documented and it's been brought up here many times.

Yes, saw it OTA as well but that's pretty standard as far as what we get from WKRC. Their stat mux varies from about 8 or 9Mbps up to 16Mbps and that's just not enough bandwidth for 1080i HD. Compare it to NBC Sunday Night Football on WLWT which looks MUCH better at a constant 16.5 to 17Mbps.

WKRC also still has the focus/blur issue (during a scene change the picture will get fuzzy/out of "focus" and then slowly get clearer) even though the fix (turn off adaptive filtering on your flexicoder!) is well documented and it's been brought up here many times.

Thanks for the info. I was hoping it wasn't just me. Too bad WKRC can't fix that, seems like they would be getting a lot of complaints.

Thanks for the info. I was hoping it wasn't just me. Too bad WKRC can't fix that, seems like they would be getting a lot of complaints.

I just sent the WKRC folks an email to the engineering department. Maybe I'll get a reply.

I didn't notice any problems but then again, I watched mostly on Ch 7 out of Dayton since they have surround sound.;)

Thanks for the info. I was hoping it wasn't just me. Too bad WKRC can't fix that, seems like they would be getting a lot of complaints.

I'm also noticing a reduction of video and audio quality during primetime CW shows. 12-2. It might be related to the Flexcoder

I'm also noticing a reduction of video and audio quality during primetime CW shows. 12-2. It might be related to the FlexcoderI haven't checked the bandwidth allocations during prime time lately but I'll try to remember to do so. If there's a particular time or show where you notice it more often let me know so I can try to check it.

I've noticed it during the CW network programming, Vampire Diaries Thursday & Smallville on Friday nights. I believe it could a reduction in bandwidth due to 12-1 showing CBS HD Programming.

EPG is working for 25.1-25.4

We will get a total of 8 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 6 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 6 or 7 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Thursday Games:

12:30pm FOX (WXIX 19, WRGT 45) Green Bay at Detroit
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman, Pam Oliver

4:15pm CBS (WKRC 12, WHIO 7) Oakland at Dallas
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

8:20pm NFLN – NY Giants at Denver$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cleveland at Cincinnati
Ian Eagle, RIch Gannon

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) Washington at Philadelphia*
Kenny Albert, Darryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Chicago at Minnesota
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Pittsburgh at Baltimore
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – New England at New Orleans+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Anyone using OTA near Fairfield having issues with WHIO-DT from Dayton? Saturday it had audio cut-outs, today nearing game time I have a good signal on the strength meter but no picture and intermittent audio that is garbled when it is on.

Normally when the drop-outs occur you see spikes in the signal meter, mine is better than usual* but the audio and video is blank more than it is on.

*actually the signal is steady as it can be, 5 bars of 10 with zero fluctuations even when the video and audio go dead. I usually have no issues unless the meter gets below 3 bars.

WHIO is having technical difficulties. The Dayton OTA thread is all a chatter about it. Enjoy the game, glitch free, on WKRC. :)

WHIO is having technical difficulties. The Dayton OTA thread is all a chatter about it. Enjoy the game, glitch free, on WKRC. :)

Doh! Just looked at the normally comatose Dayton thread before reporting back here!

Oh well, it was good exercise fiddling with the antenna! :D

[edit] Yikes, pardon the jinx, I appear to have made this thread comatose!

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 6 games. FOX has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Game:

8:20pm NFLN – NY Jets at Buffalo$ (in Toronto)
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Detroit at Cincinnati
Thom Brennaman, Brian Billick

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Dallas at NY Giants
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) San Diego at Cleveland
Kevin Harlan, Solomon Wilcots

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Minnesota at Arizona
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Baltimore at Green Bay+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

I know I promised I'd take a look at WKRC's current bitrates. I have attached TSReader output from WKRC, WLWT, and WXIX for comparison. Note that WLWT is very consistent with fairly static rates around 16-17Mbps for HD video. WKRC is quite variable. During less demanding/SD content, HD channel (12-1) can get below CinCW (12-2). Often I see both around 8 Mbps. The highest I ever saw 12-1 during this analysis is in the 14Mbps range, during the most demanding HD content. In those cases 12-2 heads down closer to 2.5 - 3Mbps. WXIX doesn't have control of their HD bitrate when showing FOX network content because of the FOX Splicer system. One exception is when WXIX uses their own encoder such as when overlaying graphics (other than FOX-19 bug in bottom right corner which is inserted by the splicer equipment). However I thought it was interesting today while WXIX was showing "According to Jim" (in SD) this afternoon, that the HD channel (19-1) actually was below 19-2 (ThisTV)!

Bottom line is that 8-14Mbps is not enough for 1080i HD from WKRC and it shows especially on high motion scenes, sports, etc.

So does anybody at Fox 19 really think we want to watch that local crap instead of the national pregame. Just glad I can pull in Fox 45, even forgot that I was on the Dayton station until the halftime commercials.

so does anybody at fox 19 really think we want to watch that local crap instead of the national pregame. Just glad i can pull in fox 45, even forgot that i was on the dayton station until the halftime commercials.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ;)

So does anybody at Fox 19 really think we want to watch that local crap instead of the national pregame. Just glad I can pull in Fox 45, even forgot that I was on the Dayton station until the halftime commercials.

I do. The Fox personalities annoy me to no end.

I liked having the option to switch between the two, myself. Trish the dish was looking goooooood.:cool:

I really meant to say Terry Bradshaw's giggling annoys me to no end.

I've only lived in the area for 10 years but that was probably the lowest I've seen local television sink since I've been here. Personally I tend to watch more of NFL Network or ESPN for pre-game but still to replace what has become an institution esp with such a half ass effort should be embarrassing.

Fox 19 has no shame that's for sure.


So does anybody at Fox 19 really think we want to watch that local crap instead of the national pregame. Just glad I can pull in Fox 45, even forgot that I was on the Dayton station until the halftime commercials.

I've only lived in the area for 10 years but that was probably the lowest I've seen local television sink since I've been here. Personally I tend to watch more of NFL Network or ESPN for pre-game but still to replace what has become an institution esp with such a half ass effort should be embarrassing.

Fox 19 has no shame that's for sure.The last time FOX had the Bengals game (a few weeks ago), WXIX cut right to their (similarly awfully produced) postgame coverage, completely disregarding the extremely compelling bonus coverage of other games ending on FOX. Had to watch WRGT to catch the bonus coverage.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ;)Yep. They can sell more local ad spots and integrations with their locally produced content. It doesn't matter how poorly it's put together, they still make more money than if they show the FOX produced coverage which includes less local ad spots.

Watching WLWT News 5 tonight at 11, Jack and Sheree at the normal news desk, but in the newsroom? What's going on in the studio?

Noticed Valerie Abati using a new graphics package during weather as well.

Kieswetter says they're just "just doing some upgrades" on the set.

Kieswetter says they're just "just doing some upgrades" on the set.

Hopefully this is the prelude for full HD news. :D

Rabbitears.info is reporting that WCPO has been approved to move from RF 10 to RF 22.

http://www.rabbitears.info/chchg.php

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2580A1.pdf

I'm guessing that WCPO will make the switch to RF 22 within the next 30 to 60 days.

I'm guessing that WCPO will make the switch to RF 22 within the next 30 to 60 days.

Can they even do it that fast given that it's Winter, tower crews are typically hard to schedule, and equipment has to be ordered/manufactured/etc?

- Trip

We will get a total of 7 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 5 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 6 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Game:

8:20pm NFLN – Pittsburgh at Cleveland$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at Minnesota
Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) New Orleans at Atlanta*
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) San Diego at Dallas
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

4pm FOX (19 WXIX) St. Louis at Tennessee
Chris Rose, Trent Green

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Philadelphia at NY Giants
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Arizona at San Francisco+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Rabbitears.info is reporting that WCPO has been approved to move from RF 10 to RF 22.

http://www.rabbitears.info/chchg.php

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2580A1.pdf

WOW! That was quick!

WSYX was also approved and it took several years.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2582A1.pdf

We will get a total of 7 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 4 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 7 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Thursday Night Game:

8:20pm NFLN – Indianapolis at Jacksonville$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Saturday Night Game:

8:20pm NFLN – Dallas at New Orleans$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Chicago at Baltimore
Thom Brennaman, Brian BillickMOVED TO 4:15pm - Not on TV here anymore

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Atlanta at NY Jets Confirmed
Dick Stockton, Trent Green

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Green Bay at Pittsburgh
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Cincinnati at San Diego
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Minnesota at Carolina
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – NY Giants at Washington+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:

BIG changes because of the weather. Baltimore moved its start time to 4:15 which caused all areas receiving that game to be switched to the Philadelphia game. However, Philadelphia has now moved their start time to 4:15 as well, so we are now getting Atlanta at NY Jets for our 1pm FOX game.

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

So the Bengals game starts at 10 A.M. San Diego time, in San Diego?

The Bengals web-site is reporting a 4:05PM EST start on Sunday...

TitanTV website also shows it at 4 as well as the NFL distribution maps: http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2009/15-CBS.html

Yeah it's 4pm. SORRY!! I got lazy with the template.

Fox 45 WRGT is also listing Green Bay-Pittsburgh at 4pm EST. Shows up on Zap2It and DirecTV's APG.

Fox 45 WRGT is also listing Green Bay-Pittsburgh at 4pm EST. Shows up on Zap2It and DirecTV's APG.That's correct. I don't know what I was on when I did this week's list.

Hello All,

Long time lurker here...I am thinking of dumping my TWC box for OTA.

I have a HDTV from Samsung and leaning towards a roof top antenna.

At a minimum, a Medium Directional Antenna was recommended. Here is my info from antennaweb.org:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=161262&stc=1&d=1261160122

I would appreciate all recommendations for what is needed for my location.

Well, antennaweb has some non existant channels listed as well as mixing virtual and actual channels, so it is not the most reliable of sources. Go here http://tvfool.com/ and let us know what the results are. No recommendations can be made without knowing the specifics; zip code, antenna height, etc...

Thanks for replying Splicer010...

Here is the information:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d7d52c961867b5f

Channel 9 just got the A-OK from the FCC to go from VHF 10 to UHF 22. Channel 12 is staying on VHF 12. Depending on the actual channels you want to pickup, I suggest this antenna: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=U4000&d=Antennacraft-U4000-UHFHD-4-Bay-Bowtie-TV-Antenna-(U4000)&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=716079002110 and of course a mast and either a tri-pod or pipe mast mount, depending on the home. Yes it is a UHF antenna and yes CH 12 is VHF. However, as close as you are to the tower, combined with the frequency 12 is transmitting on, the suggested antenna will have no problem receiving it. I suggest that you NOT use a combo VHF/UHF antenna.

Now if you want the Dayton channels as well, while it is possible, I don't think it would be worth the added cost/effort required for channels so far out that the reception would likely not be stable enough to justify it. Add more money on top of what the normal added cost would be and you could probably get more reliable reception of the Dayton channels, but it would cost you as I've said already.

If I were you, I would stick with what was suggested and see how you like it before going all out on something like Dayton channels. Even the Cinti channels you'll get about 28 channels, which includes 6 religious, and about 9 PBS or so, 2 weather channels and 1 movie channel (THIS) and the 4 networks plus 64.

^^

Thank you so much Splicer010 for your help.

As soon as the snow melts, I will snap a couple of pictures for potential locations on the roof. There are so many choices for mounting hardware...

Here are some pictures of my roof area and I would appreciate advice on the proper mounting hardware & location for the antenna that Splicer010 recommended. I have the following placement options:

Chimney
Plumbing Vents
The flat roof on the addition
The side of the addition

Thanks again for the help!

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Looks like the snowstorm is gonna change things?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4756753

This should be interesting...

Looks like the snowstorm is gonna change things?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4756753

This should be interesting...Updated the list... let me know if you hear anything officially or if anything else changes!

"Guess" is a nice way of putting it! :D

I must be old fashioned and think the game must go on as scheduled no matter what!

(except lightning scares the crap outta me!)

I'd suggest a chimney (the brick not the galvanized flue in another photo) strap & mount kit from what the pictures show. Use caution and make sure you install securely since it is in vicinity of your power weather head.

i agree - chimney is the way to go..

^^

Thanks Splicer010 & jim tressler...

Any problems pick-up Ch 19 and Ch 14 this a.m.

WXIX is weaker than usual today. Still watchable though. WPTO seems ok here.

Ch19 a tad weaker, Ch14 fine.

We will get a total of 8 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 6 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 or 6 games. CBS has the double-header this week.


Friday Night Game:

8:20pm NFLN – San Diego at Tennessee$
Bob Papa, Matt Millen

Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Kansas City at Cincinnati
Gus Johnson, Steve Tasker

1pm FOX (45 WRGT) Carolina at NY Giants*
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

4pm FOX (19 WXIX) St. Louis at Arizona
Sam Rosen, Tim Ryan

4pm CBS (12 WKRC) Denver at Philadelphia
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

4pm CBS (7 WHIO) NY Jets at Indianapolis*
Greg Gumbel, Dan Dierdorf

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Dallas at Washington
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer


Monday Night Football:

8:30pm ESPN – Minnesota at Chicago+
Mike Tirico, Jon Gruden, Ron Jaworski, Suzy Kolber, Michelle Tafoya



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:

Lots of "bonus" games this week. Enjoy and Merry Christmas!

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Hi all
I have a question about amplification and since there are some real knowledgeable folks in this forum, perhaps someone can help.

I live in anderson and have a channel master 4228 in the attic. There is about 30 feet of cable connecting to a 2-way splitter, each going to tuners in my media center PC. I have occasional problems with reception on channel 9, the video freezes etc. Reading the news in this forum about channel 9 moving to UHF, it doesn't make sense to think about a new antenna. Although the 4228 is a UHF antenna, it was supposed to be pretty good at high vhf as shown here:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html

So perhaps I should just wait out the UHF switch (any news on when?). But my real question is that I just purchased a third digital tuner for the media center and will now need to use a 3 way split. each split lowers the signal strength, correct? Would it be a good idea to get a signal amplifier, or not really necessary?

Put the split inline first, then determine if you need a pre-amp or not. I'm thinking you'll be fine but being in the attic throws the 'if' factor in there.

As for CH9, just wait on the move. I pressume you have no issue with CH12?

correct, no problem at all on ch 12

I was just poking around in the basement and found an RCA vh100 10db amplifier. If I install this before the split, could it help with the channel 9 intermittent reception problems?

Possibly. Try it out. The worse that could happen is that you have to remove it if it doesn't work out for you.

Dave Ryan is substituting for Gus Johnson today because Gus's father died this week.

Bengals at Jets moved to prime time: 8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) this Sunday!

Long time lurker in the process of dumping TW. Setting up a HTPC with HD Homerun to stream. Which antenna would best suite my application? I am going to be installing in my attic space @ about 20-25ft AGL. Thanks for any input!

Bengals at Jets moved to prime time: 8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) this Sunday!

Holy cow! That's awesome! Thanks for the update! :D

Happy New Year! :) Here are some things to look forward to in 2010 in the immediate Cincinnati DMA:
W36DG has permission to flash-cut to digital on RF 36 up until 4/19/2010. It was sold by TBN and will become affiliated with Daystar. This is the last analog TV station in the Cincinnati market.
WBQC has permission to implement digital service on RF 20 up until 8/13/2010. It's unknown what programming will be broadcast on the reborn WBQC.
WCPO will more than likely stop broadcasting on RF 10 and start broadcasting on RF 22. They have permission from the FCC to make the switch, but haven't submitted a CP application yet. There isn't a set target date either, but I would guess that they would want this implemented as soon as possible. (Perhaps late spring or early summer?) This would also knock off the W22DE analog translator in Dayton.

W36DG is being sold from TBN to Daystar. Daystar has begun flash-cutting their signals, so I figure that would be coming about in the next few months, after the sale closes.

- Trip

W36DG is being sold from TBN to Daystar.

The more diversity, the merrier!

We will get a total of 6 NFL games this week, all in HD! OTA-only viewers will get 6 games. Cable/Dish-only viewers will get 5 games. Both CBS and FOX have a double-header this week.


Sunday Day Games:

1pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) New England at Houston
Kevin Harlan, Solomon Wilcots

1pm CBS (7 WHIO) Jacksonville at Cleveland*
Gus Johnson, Steve Tasker

1pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) NY Giants at Minnesota
Kenny Albert, Daryl Johnston, Tony Siragusa

4pm CBS (12 WKRC, 7 WHIO) Baltimore at Oakland
Jim Nantz, Phil Simms

4pm FOX (19 WXIX, 45 WRGT) Philadelphia at Dallas
Joe Buck, Troy Aikman

Sunday Night Football:

8:20pm NBC (5 WLWT, 2 WDTN) – Cincinnati at NY Jets
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kremer



+Cable Only
*Bonus game for OTA viewers
$ Requires pay-TV provider that carries NFL Network


Notes:

There are no cable/satellite games this week (NFLN or ESPN).

Starting last season, all NFL games are produced in HD. All games will also be broadcast in HD with possible rare exceptions: Because of HD transport capacity limitations at CBS, there may be instances where a 4pm game will need to be in SD temporarily until 1pm games finish. Note that even this is unlikely to occur. Also, you may see halftime highlights on CBS in SD.

As always, let me know if any information is incorrect or needs to be updated.

Long time lurker in the process of dumping TW. Setting up a HTPC with HD Homerun to stream. Which antenna would best suite my application? I am going to be installing in my attic space @ about 20-25ft AGL. Thanks for any input!

I'm not an antenna guy but hang in there. I'm sure one of the antenna guys in this thread will come along to help you.:)

Which antenna would best suite my application? I am going to be installing in my attic space @ about 20-25ft AGL.

Pretty much any attic installation will do. Unfortunately you're in one of the difficult signal areas, so predicting signal strength and multipath issues will be a little more difficult, especially for WCPO and WKRC. Do the primary Cincinnati stations come in OK with an unamplified set-top antenna on the ground level?

Long time lurker in the process of dumping TW. Setting up a HTPC with HD Homerun to stream. Which antenna would best suite my application? I am going to be installing in my attic space @ about 20-25ft AGL. Thanks for any input!I'm not an antenna guy but hang in there. I'm sure one of the antenna guys in this thread will come along to help you.:)

Sorry. I thought I replied.:confused:

Anyway, you will need/want an outdoor antenna if you want the Dayton channels also. But for reliable Cinti channels using an attic mount antenna, I recommend the Antennacraft U-4000. As close as you are, you have a very good possibility of picking up WCPO reliably. WKRC should be no problem. Right now WCPO is on VHF 10 but they are moving to UHF most likely with-in 6 mos from now. But this one antenna should cover you for all local channels.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=U4000&d=Antennacraft-U4000-UHFHD-4-Bay-Bowtie-TV-Antenna-(U4000)&sku=716079002110

It comes with a 3' mast pole but you will need a balun. Use U-bolts like muffler clamps to bolt the mast to a rafter.

Hope this helps, Happy New Year.:)

Here are some pictures of my roof area and I would appreciate advice on the proper mounting hardware & location for the antenna that Splicer010 recommended. I have the following placement options:

Chimney
Plumbing Vents
The flat roof on the addition
The side of the addition

Thanks again for the help!

Laugsbach- I live very close to you (a couple miles east). I have my antenna in the attic and get all of the Cinci channels without any issues (antenna is pointing mostly west, and a little north). If you are just looking for the Cinci channels, this may another option for you.

Laugsbach- I live very close to you (a couple miles east). I have my antenna in the attic and get all of the Cinci channels without any issues (antenna is pointing mostly west, and a little north). If you are just looking for the Cinci channels, this may another option for you.

Absolutely. At his distance, an attic mount would be just fine. But if he tries for Dayton, a roof/otside mount will be necessary.

Laugsbach- I live very close to you (a couple miles east). I have my antenna in the attic and get all of the Cinci channels without any issues (antenna is pointing mostly west, and a little north). If you are just looking for the Cinci channels, this may another option for you.

Absolutely. At his distance, an attic mount would be just fine. But if he tries for Dayton, a roof/otside mount will be necessary.

Thanks for your responses guys!

I would like to try for the Dayton stations and will go for the outside mount antenna that Splicer010 suggested...

WHIO switched to showing the Browns game. I have not been able to get on here to update in time... sorry. 506 maps were never updated but BeyondTV listings showed the change.

FYI the Bengals do-over with the Jets is scheduled for Saturday at 4:30pm on NBC.

Saturday Jan 9

4:30pm NBC - Jets at Bengals
Tom Hammond, Joe Gibbs, Joe Theismann.

8:00pm NBC - Eagles at Cowboys
Al Michaels, Cris Collinsworth, Andrea Kramer

Sunday Jan 10

1:00pm CBS - Ravens at Patriots
(Assuming Jim Nantz, Phil Simms)

4:40pm FOX - Packers at Cardinals
(Assuming Joe Buck, Troy Aikman)

did they sell out the game?

did they sell out the game?
Yes

did they sell out the game?

:D Would it have been blacked out if they didn't? Sheesh!

When did this board become "ESPN sports zone"?
Can we get back to talking about HDTV/DTV/antennas, reception, broadcast station updates in the Cincinnati metro?
PLEASE!

When did this board become "ESPN sports zone"?
Can we get back to talking about HDTV/DTV/antennas, reception, broadcast station updates in the Cincinnati metro?
PLEASE!I want to hear and discuss the things you mentioned as well, but local HDTV programming is on-topic in this thread.


:D Would it have been blacked out if they didn't? Sheesh!
Yes, I believe it would be.

So when is Fox Sports Ohio going to start showing some UC and Xavier basketball games in HD? They haven't even shown games broadcast nationally in HD (like the UC v. Oregon State football game) in HD locally. In other words, the UC v. Oregon State game was shown everywhere else in HD but Ohio. Whats the problem? Its 2010 already.

.... its fox sports...

WKRC ran a crawl tonight during NCIS stating to rescan your TV if your using a antenna. I wonder what this is about? I am currently receiving a strong signal from them. I have noticed occasional signal glitches recently but not tonight.

WKRC ran a crawl tonight during NCIS stating to rescan your TV if your using a antenna. I wonder what this is about? I am currently receiving a strong signal from them. I have noticed occasional signal glitches recently but not tonight."If you are unable to read this message, please rescan your TV channels." :D

WKRC ran a crawl tonight during NCIS stating to rescan your TV if your using a antenna. I wonder what this is about? I am currently receiving a strong signal from them. I have noticed occasional signal glitches recently but not tonight.

I rescanned and didn't get anything new. WKRC is coming in well here.

WKRC has only the following on their web site:

Engineers at Local 12 have been working to upgrade our digital transmitter equipment.

Viewers who use over-the-air antennas and converter boxes may need to rescan to receive our signal.

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Local-12-Works-To-Upgrade-Digital-Transmitter/Wx1bTMb-0kCk-YJtBsJ-Lw.cspx

"If you are unable to read this message, please rescan your TV channels." :D

Thats funny right there.:D

I wonder what they're upgrading...

Maybe they replaced their Flexcoder and are planning to add 5.1 audio.

woah... step back of the ledge bob... local hd and dd5.1 within a year of one another...

Maybe they turned off "adaptive filtering" on the Flexicoder (as we've been telling them to do for years) and the focus/blur issue will finally go away!

I rescaned even though I was having no problems and a strong signal. Now I get nothing...



















I kid I kid! No change, no difference. Happy New Year all!

I rescanned and still get nothing but the Dayton channels and CH 64.1!

Maybe they replaced their Flexcoder

The Flexicoder is dead. Long live the new NetVX!

The Flexicoder is dead. Long live the new NetVX!

Just in time for the Super Bowl! :D I can't tell any major difference so far during the 6:00 PM news. Hopefully we'll get some better bandwidth-intensive tests tonight.

The Flexicoder is dead. Long live the new NetVX!Awesome!

...for not running the weather and closing ticker during the game.

Thank you WCPO...for not running the weather and closing ticker during the game.

I second that -- a big thumbs up!!!:)

Every time I switched over to them, they WERE running it.

Only time I saw it was during commercials, which is a good thing.:)

Did something happen with channel 5? The picture looks incredible!!

You watching OTA or cable? Looks the same to me OTA as it always has. GO BENGALS!!!

Huzzah!

Today, for some unknown reason, I have been able to watch the Channel 25 substations.

I live just East of Oxford and despite upgrading to a DB8 pointed at Cinci, no 25.

Today, there it was.

Tres weird. Atmosphere? Maybe, but for one day, I am enjoying it.

The Flexicoder is dead. Long live the new NetVX!

Recordings from last night indicate the new configuration is being stingy with bits to the HD stream...

If it's a statistical multiplexer, and I would bet that it is, then during scenes that do not require as much bandwidth (like solid black or still images) it can crush down the size during that instant without harming picture quality.

- Trip

did you view it visually or did you watch the bandwith with say TSREader?

looking at tsreader - during whatever show is on now - 8:50pm (NCIS) - 12-1 is only getting 8-9 mB/s.. a null stream is getting another 5 mb/s

If you are running TSReader Standard (not Lite), try going to View > Chart > Settings > Real Time Charting and then go to View > Video Bit-rate Line and watch what it's doing in real time, you'll see the usage vary from second to second. It's just averaging out to 8-9 Mbps because the content is not demanding any more than that overall.

- Trip

wow.. thats all over.. during ncis la or whatever is on at 9pm - its up around 12 mb/s now.. the null stream is now #3 behind cincw..

did you view it visually or did you watch the bandwith with say TSREader?

I was watching and admittedly did not detect any obvious degradation from 12-1's normal bit constrained quality. I really noticed the difference when I edited and archived my recordings. What had previously been @ 2,200Mb per 21 minute show (less commercials) were now @ 1,800. This compares with @ 2,400Mb for WLWT recordings.

I will wait until I can view more demanding program content than sitcoms to see if I can detect a visual difference.

While you are doing your analysis keep in mind that the compression in the NetVX is MUCH more efficient than the Flexicoder.

NetVX consistently runs considerably less bandwidth than the Flexicoder when fed the same program.

NetVX consistently runs considerably less bandwidth than the Flexicoder when fed the same program.

So does that mean that that extra bandwidth will eventually be used for other purposes like improving the quality of CinCW (480i widescreen or 480p?) or adding another subchannel?

So does that mean that that extra bandwidth will eventually be used for other purposes like improving the quality of CinCW (480i widescreen or 480p?) or adding another subchannel?Or, improving the quality of the HD channel?

I haven't had a chance to cap/analyze the WKRC video streams during 24fps content to check, yet --- Is WKRC implementing a "film detection/Repeat Field Detection/etc. setting on the NetVX to implement TFF/RFF("Telecine") flags during 24fps content (like WLWT, The ThinkTV stations and WBDT(CW HD Dayton) do - on all their 480i and 1080i services) ... ???? ... If I recall correctly, the NetVX and Harmonic Encoders will do that (Some decoders have problems with that+720p, but AFAIK, that doesn't seem to be an issue with 480i/1080i ) .....

Update: Never Mind that question - Just checked it with some 24fps commercials during current basketball game --- They're not using the TFF/RFF flags currently/The dupes are coded pictures ....

So does that mean that that extra bandwidth will eventually be used for other purposes like improving the quality of CinCW ....


It seems to me it(and the more "efficient" encoding) already (obviously) is being used for that .... (update) : And, it's not like there's a lot left over ... For example --- this afternoon/currently(during HD Basketball), I see The Null packet stream going as low as about 1.15Mb/s with 12.1 video as high as about 12.83Mb/s and 12.2 video going as high as about 4.5mb/s (don't forget there are also the audio streams, PSIP and TVGoS that "fill out" the remainder of the 19.39 Mb/s total payload) ....

Tsreader HTML output attached (w/o info in EIT's)-- This was capped during bandwidth demanding portion of HD basketball game, at a time when it looked like(with my eyes) that the HD could certianly have used more bits ...... Of course, in order for the HD Video to get many more bits during such times, CinCW would need to be using fewer bits, which doesn't bode well for the quality of both program services(even with Stat-muxing) for when you have bandwidth demanding content airing simultanously on Both of them ....

.... (480i widescreen or 480p?)


704x480 4x3 vs. 704 x 480 16x9 is just a change in pixel aspect ratio, the resolution and bandwidth requirements are the same ....


Or, improving the quality of the HD channel?


That would be nice, as it looks to me like there is certianly room for improvement there, but it seems unlikely to me from what we've seen from them so far (And in general, most everyone else as well) .....

Update: Oh, anyway - along those lines --- I haven't looked at it much, but The main improvement I've noticed so far is the lack of the flexicoder adaptive pre-filtering issue (which was especially noticable during/just after scene changes) .... Although there has been some improvement regarding the following ---- There still seems to be significant blocking or mosquito noise issues --- And also, it's hard to say given I've only used my eyes, and again I've looked at very little of it, but it looks to me like some sort of undesireable filtering (resulting perhaps in some loss of detail) *may* also be going on ...

Going back a bit .... meant to comment on this earlier, but didn't have the time :

WCPO will more than likely stop broadcasting on RF 10 and start broadcasting on RF 22. They have permission from the

FCC to make the switch, but haven't submitted a CP application yet.This would also knock off the W22DE analog translator in Dayton.
[/LIST]

The FCC order(Adopted Dec 8, 2009/released Dec 10, 2009) changing the allotment to 22 was Published in Federal Register on Dec 21, 2009 (The "effective date" of the order) ..... It specifies in the order WCPO SHALL submit a CP app (minor change to licensed facility) within 30 Days of the effective Date of the order ...

It's possible they may have already submitted it, and it's just not "showing up" yet (A current search of CDBS doesn't find it yet) --- In any case, one would think it *should* show up soon ......

BTW, Regarding Other recent UHF to VHF changes in area -- WKYT's (Lexington - currently on 13) CP app for 36 Was filed 12/1 -- , WSYX(Columbus - Currently on 13) CP app for 48 was filed 12/28/2009, but not shown as "accepted for filing" by FCC until 1/6/2010 .... The FCC order changing the WSYX allotment was Adopted Dec 8/Released Dec 11, Published in Federal Register December 21 ....



This would also knock off the W22DE analog translator in Dayton.


One perhaps interesting thing about that is the only "indication" of the W22DE callsign I can find is on the Authorization for the CP, All other records available on FCC site are "old" records, with the old W66AQ (on 66) callsign and facilities specified ....

Usually, when the CP is applied for(which happened, and was granted in this case back in 2007 per an "interference agreement" with WKEF), the technical info (ERP, Antenna pattern/etc) shows up in CDBS (including TV query) immediately, and that info is also utilized for interference protection calculations by other stations/etc. for channel change petitions/CP apps/etc per OET bullitin #69 .... Even though they would be displaced, being a LP station -- nevertheless, the info *should* have been there for interference analysis purposes for WCPO's petition as well as the presumably upcoming CP app (especially since it's not just an "app", they are actually ON the air) ....

My best guess as to why that happened may involve that WKEF 22 (analog) was "using" channel 22 in Dayton at the time the CP for W22DE was granted, so perhaps CDBS had some sort of a "key field" issue/etc .....

Update: Oh, anyway - along those lines --- I haven't looked at it much, but The main improvement I've noticed so far is the lack of the flexicoder adaptive pre-filtering issue (which was especially noticable during/just after scene changes) .... Although there has been some improvement regarding the following ---- There still seems to be significant blocking or mosquito noise issues --- And also, it's hard to say given I've only used my eyes, and again I've looked at very little of it, but it looks to me like some sort of undesireable filtering (resulting perhaps in some loss of detail) *may* also be going on ...

After watching both AFC divisional playoff games this past weekend, I agree. Overall the picture looks much better during scene transitions, but there were parts where it still looked a little blocky.

After watching both AFC divisional playoff games this past weekend, I agree. Overall the picture looks much better during scene transitions, but there were parts where it still looked a little blocky.

I agree as well. But the interesting part is that the scene change "blur" blocking could have been fixed with a simple setting change on their old encoder. I am not sure I see any improvement in the HD picture (other than the blur issue being resolved as a side effect) after the new equipment install. But, then again, I don't know that improving the HD picture was part of their goal with the new equipment.

It's possible they may have already submitted it, and it's just not "showing up" yet (A current search of CDBS doesn't find it yet) --- In any case, one would think it *should* show up soon ......

It's out there now under file number BPCDT-20100115ABY (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=&call=&arn=20100115ABY&city=&chan=&cha2=69&serv=&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9).

If WCPO moves to Ch. 22, will it really make that much of a difference? Currently receive a great signal from WCPO and always have, even at lower power levels and antenna height. Is the concern mainly with indoor antennas? How are these people receiving WKRC?

A few weeks ago here in Northgate, I had to watch the Bengals on Ch 7 from Dayton because I couldn't get Ch 12.

Unrelated - Kiesewtter is reporting that starting Feb 1st Ch 48-3 will drop CET-World and become CET Arts.

A few weeks ago here in Northgate, I had to watch the Bengals on Ch 7 from Dayton because I couldn't get Ch 12.

And thats a bad thing because...? CH7 has actual, real, live 5.1 surround sound. CH12 is still 2.0.:(

Unrelated - Kiesewtter is reporting that starting Feb 1st Ch 48-3 will drop CET-World and become CET Arts. Really? Cool. I think. Never watched 'World' and doubt I'll ever watch 'Arts' so its a wash for me.;)

If WCPO moves to Ch. 22, will it really make that much of a difference? [...] Is the concern mainly with indoor antennas? How are these people receiving WKRC?

Yep, pretty much. I have a long list of VHF stations that have experienced reception issues (http://www.rabbitears.info/vhf.php) on my website.

- Trip

It looks like WLWT News 5 is finally in 16:9 Wide screen and are making the switch to HD.

Notice how 'bright' the anchors faces are compared to any other part of the newscast? Looks like crap. If I'm not mistaken, the newsroom is in HD, the rest is SD widescreen.

Are you sure it's "true" HD picture?
Looks like 480i stretched - not as crisp as 1080i. Can someone confirm it's real HD or just first step to HD.
Obviously, today they are not promoting it as HD.....

Notice how 'bright' the anchors faces are compared to any other part of the newscast? Looks like crap. If I'm not mistaken, the newsroom is in HD, the rest is SD widescreen.

It does looked stretched upconverted 480i. Video quality is not very good.

Didn't look 'stretched' to me. May not be 'true' HD in the news room, they have always had a very good looking newscast.
Obviously, today they are not promoting it as HD.....Yeah, I thought about that. So it probably is 480p widescreen. The anchors still looked like crap though.

Yep, pretty much. I have a long list of VHF stations that have experienced reception issues (http://www.rabbitears.info/vhf.php) on my website.

- Trip

Wow, that is quite the list! Makes me think about the problems WBBM-DT had with it's digital station years ago on channel 3. I never understood why VHF was considered an option for post transition. How is everyone's reception with WKRC? Are they looking at a similar option to move back to Ch. 31?

Channel 31 is no longer available due to the presence of WDKY on channel 31 in the Lexington market. If they wanted to go back to UHF, I've predicted it would likely have to be on channel 18.

However, everything I've heard suggests they want to stay put on 12.

- Trip

I never understood why VHF was considered an option for post transition.

It's much cheaper to power the transmitter and the signal propagates further in some cases.

How is everyone's reception with WKRC?

I haven't had too many problems with it when I've gotten it with indoor antennas. It's easier to get than WCPO.

It's much cheaper to power the transmitter and the signal propagates further in some cases.

Oh, I know the logical reasons why, but other stations on VHF for the last 10 years had all kinds of problems. Oh well, so much does something like this cost a station? I know they bought the brand new channel 10 antenna and mounted it last summer. So would they take that one down and put another one up? I know just putting out more power won't change how far it goes, but could it help those close enough to receive a reliable signal? You would think they could test different setups before taking the jump to UHF.

They already replaced the antenna and then boosted the power on the new antenna when the original power level didn't work. This is the last thing to do.

- Trip

I think the problem is more the fault of the end-users in not having proper antenna set ups for VHF reception. Other than small blips when lightning strikes nearby, I have never had a problem with WKRC or WCPO digitals with my outdoor directional antenna that has the correct VHF elements for reception.

But, even though it's the end-users' "fault" that they are having problems, I guess it's still on WCPO to make those viewers happy, even if it's a little unreasonable.

When 80% of OTA users are on indoor antennas, you have to cater to them.

- Trip

I have a question about my antenna I purchased at monoprice.com. It is an HDA-5700. I am *very* new at the over the air thing so please go easy on me. So far (the 2 days I have had a chance to mess with it) I am very pleased with the channels I get. I did not get CBS initially (I am using Media Center in Windows 7 to scan) but I manually added 12.1 and I get it at a high signal. My only problem is that I cannot get ABC (channel 9.1) at all. This is a VHF channel while all the others I get are UHF. The antenna I have --I tried linking to it but I cannot put URLs in yet, but it is the only indoor/outdoor antenna on the monoprice.com site -- says it is for VHF and UHF. I live in Westwood, Ohio. So far I am just using the antenna in a second story window on the inside. I have no problems mounting this somewhere outside if necessary. My questions are these:

1) Does anyone think I can get this VHF 9.1 channel using the antenna I have?
2) If not, would the Terk HDTVi or HDTVa get me this last channel I need?

I appreciate all the help that avsforum has given me over the years and this is the first time I have posted. If any more information is needed, please let me know.

Channel 31 is no longer available due to the presence of WDKY on channel 31 in the Lexington market. If they wanted to go back to UHF, I've predicted it would likely have to be on channel 18.

However, everything I've heard suggests they want to stay put on 12.

- Trip

It would be nice if WKRC could apply for ch 18 and use Ch 12 for a full HD signal on the CinCW.

It would be nice if WKRC could apply for ch 18 and use Ch 12 for a full HD signal on the CinCW.

Yeah, that sounds nice, but it's probably not a wise business decision to run two transmitters.

I have a question about my antenna I purchased at monoprice.com. It is an HDA-5700. I am *very* new at the over the air thing so please go easy on me. So far (the 2 days I have had a chance to mess with it) I am very pleased with the channels I get. I did not get CBS initially (I am using Media Center in Windows 7 to scan) but I manually added 12.1 and I get it at a high signal. My only problem is that I cannot get ABC (channel 9.1) at all. This is a VHF channel while all the others I get are UHF. The antenna I have --I tried linking to it but I cannot put URLs in yet, but it is the only indoor/outdoor antenna on the monoprice.com site -- says it is for VHF and UHF. I live in Westwood, Ohio. So far I am just using the antenna in a second story window on the inside. I have no problems mounting this somewhere outside if necessary. My questions are these:

1) Does anyone think I can get this VHF 9.1 channel using the antenna I have?
2) If not, would the Terk HDTVi or HDTVa get me this last channel I need?

I appreciate all the help that avsforum has given me over the years and this is the first time I have posted. If any more information is needed, please let me know.

I would mount it outside pointed at the WCPO tower and go from there. That isn't my personal choice for an antenna, but for indoor use it should be adequate. Really all it is, is a glorified UHF antenna. Picking up VHF is iffy unless it is a higher frequency such as channel 12 which is closer to the UHF range. Certainly closer than channel 10.

Before you take outside though, is there another location in the house facing the tower that you could move the HDA-5700 to? If so, try that.

Channel 10 = 192~198MHZ

Channel 12 = 204~210MHZ

UHF Channel 14~51 = 470~698MHZ

--------------------------------------------------------------

Flexicoder adaptive filtering Blur :

Not that it matters now but The Flexicoder Adaptive-filtering "blur" hid some pretty nasty Blocking issues ..(because of the limited amount bandwidth allocated+the flexicoder's inefficiency vs. newer encoders), but more frames were blurred by it than was necessary ... I saw it a few times when it was apparently "off", and While I liked it better off(even with all the "screen door"/blocking effect going on) nevertheless, they were really *amned if they did or if they didn't, I think ... Dunno if it was true or not, but Add to it that I think I read somewhere the default setting on the Flexicder was adaptive filtering on(Everytime the encoder reset in which case it would have to be changed to turn it off ...), and the "off" setting was "2", not "1" or "0" as one might think .....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

WCPO channel 10 allocation + FMI :

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/93086

96.5 MHZ x 2 = 193 MHZ ...

channel 10 = 192~198 MHZ .....

I've allways thought it wasn't a great allocation for Cincy because of that, especially since there are a good number of folks who are quite near the Blow torch 96.5 FM Transmitter ....



When 80% of OTA users are on indoor antennas, you have to cater to them.


Since When ?

Channel 10 = 192~198MHZ

Channel 12 = 204~210MHZ

UHF Channel 14~51 = 470~698MHZYou know what I meant. ;) I went back and changed the 'almost' to 'closer'.

It's generally insignificant that channel 12 is a little bit closer(6~12MHZ) to UHF ...

When using a UHF antenna for VHF-HI reception, how well it performs on VHF or on one VHF channel vs another can vary greatly depending upon the design and the "exact" model being used(and unfortunetly, we can't allways dig up the specs on this we want -- especially regarding issues such as accurate info on UHF only antenna's performance on VHF), and there are really no generalizations which can be made ....

Scroll Down to the "Using a UHF antenna for VHF" section(Not too far from the bottom) here:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

As you can see, CM4228 has significantly more gain on Channel 10 than on channel 12 or 8, DB2 actually performs as well on ch 7 as channel 13, but does worse on channel 10, while CM4221 on the other hand, does much better the higher in VHF band you go (in other words CM4221 it is ONE antenna that does just happen to "fit" what you are saying ---- But, it's not really because channel 12/13 is all that much closer to UHF, except as it relates to the CM4221's specific design ....

Didn't look 'stretched' to me. May not be 'true' HD in the news room, they have always had a very good looking newscast.
Yeah, I thought about that. So it probably is 480p widescreen. The anchors still looked like crap though.

Watched News 5 11pm last night. I think the studio cams looked the worst! Way too bright. The field cams looked really good, possible that they're HD? The weather graphics looked pretty good too, except for the radar screen.

My ratings for best "looking" newscast:

1) WCPO (been doing it the longest, but the new "Standard Scripts" graphics don't look as nice as the old ones.)
2) WKRC (very close to WCPO, sometimes better, but took 2 more years to get here also, so the equipment should be better.)
3) WXIX (Still doesn't look as sharp, guessing bc they use the JVC cameras for studio, which are not the best. Need to figure out how to insert their station ID without leaving the Fox Splicer. I have an email in to them, but the engineer may have left, if anyone knows who is in charge (Is Jim Gilbert still chief engineer?), please PM me contact info if this has changed.)
4) WLWT (GET HD STUDIO CAMERAS!)

According to John Kiesewetter, WLWT's news went just to widescreen, but not HD (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2010/01/21/channel-5-goes-widescreen-but-not-true-hdtv/). At least it's a step in the right direction. :)

Yeah, that sounds nice, but it's probably not a wise business decision to run two transmitters.

Block Broadcasting managed to do it and they'll be running two transmitters again when they resurrect WBQC as a digital station on RF 20. (This year? We hope!)

I have a question about my antenna I purchased at monoprice.com. It is an HDA-5700. I am *very* new at the over the air thing so please go easy on me. So far (the 2 days I have had a chance to mess with it) I am very pleased with the channels I get. I did not get CBS initially (I am using Media Center in Windows 7 to scan) but I manually added 12.1 and I get it at a high signal. My only problem is that I cannot get ABC (channel 9.1) at all. This is a VHF channel while all the others I get are UHF. The antenna I have --I tried linking to it but I cannot put URLs in yet, but it is the only indoor/outdoor antenna on the monoprice.com site -- says it is for VHF and UHF. I live in Westwood, Ohio. So far I am just using the antenna in a second story window on the inside. I have no problems mounting this somewhere outside if necessary. My questions are these:

1) Does anyone think I can get this VHF 9.1 channel using the antenna I have?
2) If not, would the Terk HDTVi or HDTVa get me this last channel I need?

I appreciate all the help that avsforum has given me over the years and this is the first time I have posted. If any more information is needed, please let me know.

Fishtick26
I've been using media center for a few years now and have had intermittent problems with 9.1. I have a CM4228 in the attic, which I thought would have been enough. Incidentally, no problems on 12.1. I recently found a 10db amp in the basement and that appears to have helped and at the same time I installed a third tuner, so the antenna line is split 3 ways. I have noticed also, that even when media center shows all green bars reception strength, it is still possible to have problems. While it couldn't hurt to try something else (just buy from a place you can return it if it doesnt work), keep in mind that 9.1 is switching to UHF in a few months so the problem will correct itself eventually.

It would be nice if WKRC could apply for ch 18 and use Ch 12 for a full HD signal on the CinCW.

The FCC is not accepting applications for new stations at this time. There is no way for this to happen.

Since When ?

I remember hearing that number somewhere, but it's probably either wrong or only applicable to a specific market.

- Trip

WLWT has always been extremely good at upconverting SD. They are at the mercy of Hearst Argyle as far as when they will get funding to go HD. In my opinion, they are doing an excellent job with what they have, and realistically, many viewers out there will believe it is HD.

Watched News 5 11pm last night. I think the studio cams looked the worst! Way too bright. The field cams looked really good, possible that they're HD? The weather graphics looked pretty good too, except for the radar screen.
[...]
4) WLWT (GET HD STUDIO CAMERAS!)
The studio cams did look a little too bright to me on my DLP, and probably could use adjustment, but it didn't look terrible to me. They could get HD studio cameras, but I don't know that that would help anything, as they are still processing everything in SD as far as I understand it.

I noticed a couple weeks ago that on 5-1 (Weather Plus) the radar image looked a little "squished" from left to right (as if they had taken a 16:9 image and resized to 4:3). I wondered at the time if something was coming, and apparently it was. Weather Plus actually looks better now if you stretch it on your TV to fill 16:9, at least when they're showing the radar. I would really like to see WLWT make Weather Plus an SD widescreen channel - wouldn't take any more "bits" to do it, just change the aspect ratio of the channel.

Block Broadcasting managed to do it and they'll be running two transmitters again when they resurrect WBQC as a digital station on RF 20. (This year? We hope!)But low power licenses and TV station operations are so completely different that I don't think it's fair to compare the two. Perhaps CinCW could go on one of those low power stations :)

Fishtick26
I've been using media center for a few years now and have had intermittent problems with 9.1. I have a CM4228 in the attic, which I thought would have been enough. Incidentally, no problems on 12.1. I recently found a 10db amp in the basement and that appears to have helped and at the same time I installed a third tuner, so the antenna line is split 3 ways. I have noticed also, that even when media center shows all green bars reception strength, it is still possible to have problems. While it couldn't hurt to try something else (just buy from a place you can return it if it doesnt work), keep in mind that 9.1 is switching to UHF in a few months so the problem will correct itself eventually.

I appreciate the information. I also appreciate the reply from Splicer. I did not get a chance to reply until now. I connected the antenna directly to my Panasonic TC-P50G10 and I was able to get 9.1, 12.1 and everything else that I believe I should get with no problem. And this was just with my antenna sitting on the entertainment center just below my TV. It was facing in the right general direction but not near an outside wall or window. However, I moved it back to the office this morning, put it in the window, fired up Media Center and I only got 5 channels. That part doesn't bother me, though. I know this can be fixed with better placement. And now that I know I can receive 9.1 with my current antenna I'll just be happy. Also, that is great that it will be UHF in the near future so I won't have to worry long.

I have another question. My antenna has a 9V power adapter that does not appear necessary. It does not help with reception at all. Is this only needed if the coax cable run is long or if I have a splitter?

WLWT has always been extremely good at upconverting SD. They are at the mercy of Hearst Argyle as far as when they will get funding to go HD. In my opinion, they are doing an excellent job with what they have, and realistically, many viewers out there will believe it is HD.

They've taken a step back as far as picture quality is concerned. The new widescreen view is nice, but it almost seems as if they're zooming into a 4:3 SD picture instead of shooting true 16:9 SD. The shot, strangely, is wider however than what they were using.

I just happened to find a copy of News 5 Today from Tuesday on the TiVo, so you can compare it directly to today's edition. Click both images to view them full size. Take a close look at the text on the backdrop (News 5 logo and WLWT.com). You'll see that it is noticeably blurrier.

Tuesday:

http://imgur.com/XWufPl.jpg (http://imgur.com/XWufP.jpg)

Today:

http://imgur.com/05Mi0l.jpg (http://imgur.com/05Mi0.jpg)

They've taken a step back as far as picture quality is concerned. The new widescreen view is nice, but it almost seems as if they're zooming into a 4:3 SD picture instead of shooting true 16:9 SD. The shot, strangely, is wider however than what they were using.

I just happened to find a copy of News 5 Today from Tuesday on the TiVo, so you can compare it directly to today's edition. Click both images to view them full size. Take a close look at the text on the backdrop (News 5 logo and WLWT.com). You'll see that it is noticeably blurrier.
You're right... and they could very well be using crop and zoom instead of a camera setting of 16:9.

This is likely a Win7 Media Center issue but I thought I'd ask here if there happened to be any TWC QAM users in Fairfield who use a tuner in their PC for the HD locals?

Why you ask?

Today I turn on the Colts-Jets game on 12.1 and my tuner is showing 12.2 on both 12.1 and 12.2. Went to the bedroom TV which is the same setup (TWC Fairfield QAM) and all is well. Only happening on computer (Hauppauge 2250 tuner).

Damn I hate rescanning!

FYI I watch OTA from Dayton stations on my Home Theater setup but the computer, in the same room, makes a dandy instant replay machine. :)


[edit] After the rescan was done it appears they shuffled the stations once again. I have the $12/month basic locals tier and I no longer get WGN for free. No biggie. My issue with 12.1 went away so I'm happy. Curious as to why the PC tuner didn't go along with this whereas my bedroom LG TV was fine?

[edit2] Did yet another rescan and the missing channels reappeared. Such is life in the QAM world. I think the cable companies do this purposely so people get annoyed or confused and sign up for a more expensive digital cable box. BASTARDS!

the afc championship game looked very bitstarved.. lots of "pixelating" during any "action" sequence.. her xmitrman.. feed the beast.. give it the bandwidth it needs :)

the afc championship game looked very bitstarved.. lots of "pixelating" during any "action" sequence..

I agree that parts of it looked too pixel-y.

I noticed no problems.

I believe WXIX is now inserting local id with the Fox Splicer, at least that is what I saw during the Vikings-Saints game last night. Will tune in to "24" tonight to see how it is handled.

Cincinnati Bell recently wired our neighborhood for fiber and is offering what seems to be very aggressive pricing for their FIOPTIC bundle. We currently are with TWC and I'm just wondering if anyone has had any comparative experience they could relay regarding picture quality, channel lineup and equipment.

Thanks in advance...

I suggest this antenna: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=U4000&d=Antennacraft-U4000-UHFHD-4-Bay-Bowtie-TV-Antenna-(U4000)&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=716079002110 and of course a mast and either a tri-pod or pipe mast mount, depending on the home. Yes it is a UHF antenna and yes CH 12 is VHF. However, as close as you are to the tower, combined with the frequency 12 is transmitting on, the suggested antenna will have no problem receiving it. I suggest that you NOT use a combo VHF/UHF antenna.

If I were you, I would stick with what was suggested and see how you like it before going all out on something like Dayton channels. Even the Cinti channels you'll get about 28 channels, which includes 6 religious, and about 9 PBS or so, 2 weather channels and 1 movie channel (THIS) and the 4 networks plus 64.

I just wanted you to know that I have purchased the above antenna and have started out with this mounted in my unfinished attic space (due to the wife:o) and I couldn't be happier!:)

I dropped off the TWC box yesterday & TWC was over today to shut her down at the pole...

Thanks again to Splicer and all of the other members here for their help.:cool:

Cincinnati Bell recently wired our neighborhood for fiber and is offering what seems to be very aggressive pricing for their FIOPTIC bundle. We currently are with TWC and I'm just wondering if anyone has had any comparative experience they could relay regarding picture quality, channel lineup and equipment.

Thanks in advance...

No answer but you make me wonder... I live in an area that's dense with 12 unit condos and such and about 2 blocks up the road for a couple months now there have been guys burying cable coming off spools that are huge. The diameter of the cable has got to be a good 6" at least. I'll see if I can remember to grab a pic and post it here...

I was thinking this might be the same thing, fiber for Cbell. The workmen's trucks have no company names or markings, typical for contractors.

Oh yea, they've been digging and working on the same block since the middle of December at least. I need a job like that!

Cincinnati Bell recently wired our neighborhood for fiber and is offering what seems to be very aggressive pricing for their FIOPTIC bundle. We currently are with TWC and I'm just wondering if anyone has had any comparative experience they could relay regarding picture quality, channel lineup and equipment.

Thanks in advance...

junkyarddog has experience with them and said he is VERY pleased with Cinti Bell over TW. Personally, if I were you, and the deal is too good to pass up, take it and drop TW. Worse case scenario, you have a barganing chip if TW wants you back.;)

No answer but you make me wonder... I live in an area that's dense with 12 unit condos and such and about 2 blocks up the road for a couple months now there have been guys burying cable coming off spools that are huge. The diameter of the cable has got to be a good 6" at least. I'll see if I can remember to grab a pic and post it here...

I was thinking this might be the same thing, fiber for Cbell. The workmen's trucks have no company names or markings, typical for contractors.

Oh yea, they've been digging and working on the same block since the middle of December at least. I need a job like that!

You are likely seeing power or phone with 6" diameter cable. Fiber, even large count fiber, is not that large. It is probable it is Cinti Bell. Take what I am saying with a grain of salt because I am only going by your description. If you can indeed get photos and post them here I can tell you with almost 100% certainty what it is. And if you are serious and not being sarcastic about the job, talk to whoever is the field lead is. Good chance you can get on with the company though it won't be that job.;)

I just wanted you to know that I have purchased the above antenna and have started out with this mounted in my unfinished attic space (due to the wife:o) and I couldn't be happier!:)

I dropped off the TWC box yesterday & TWC was over today to shut her down at the pole...

Thanks again to Splicer and all of the other members here for their help.:cool:

Thanks for the update. Glad to have been of some assistance and that everything is working out the way you wanted it to.:)

I was being sarcastic, seeing these guys take forever to basically, as it seems, stand around and look at each other.

Bubster,

In my Mason neighborhood the installation of the fiber optic cable took about two months. Cinci Bell used a couple of contractors and we were notified with a card in the mail about what was happening in the event there was any damage to our property or other issues. They seemed pretty efficient overall.

I have been receiving ch.22 better lately in Sharonville so i sent an email to see if they increased power. Wkef's reply:
"We are in the process of increasing 22.1's power. We have switched the signal to a new transmitter. We have this transmitter at low power at the origional power rating 138,000 watts. We are waiting for approval from Canadian FCC. We will increase the power output on this new transmitter to 515,000 watts. Any reception differences might be due to this new transmitter. Richard King WKEF/WRGT/MYTV Engineering"

Yeah, me too (Sharonville) - a little stronger signal from them currently.
Looks like when all said and done they should be the 4th strongest signal from Dayton (along with WHIO, WDTN, & WPTD). I know WBDT will have more "power" but they are lower on the tower and somewhat directional away from the SE.

Cincinnati Bell recently wired our neighborhood for fiber and is offering what seems to be very aggressive pricing for their FIOPTIC bundle. We currently are with TWC and I'm just wondering if anyone has had any comparative experience they could relay regarding picture quality, channel lineup and equipment.

Thanks in advance...

If you have the option and the pricing is good, I would switch in an instant. Had the analog cable with 30/30 Mbps internet. The internet was incredible, but I believe they are no longer giving symmetric internet service.

Recently, one of my friends switched from TW. Got HD-DVR and 20/5 Mbps internet. Was over on Sunday to watch the Vikings-Saints game. Looked about the same as TW and OTA, so no difference there. But on the other cable channels (ESPN, TBS, etc) there was much less artifacts and compression problems when compared to what I have on TW. The difference in the DVR is the interface. CinBell is using the older interface that TW had before Navigator. Haha, it works much better than Navigator(go figure), super quick on the navigation and channel change, but it doesn't look as clean. So if you want a pretty interface, its not that, but quick and easy, it is.

Other friends living Downtown and Lebanon also have the service and they would also recommend it. But, in my friend in Lebanon said the rates did go up after the introductory rates, but I am not sure by how much. There was an article a couple months back about CinBell expanding service, because they were getting over 50% share in the neighborhoods they moved into.

Again, if you can get the service, there is really no reason not to switch, better HD and internet, bye-bye TW!

I'm very interested in this new FiOptic TV from CincyBell. However, I'm not sure if they will ever move into Delhi Township! It would be nice to know, because i'm getting very tired of the hassle that TW has put into our area (being the old Adelphia network, we never get the channels or features that other areas get). I love Roadrunner, but I can really feel the pinch from 5-10 p.m. What really erks me is the load times on Youtube.

So my second idea would be to switch to DirectTV, however I'm not sure if I have the best sky for the Dish (neighbors have it, but we are closer to tree tips). Do you have to have 100% perfection when it comes to HD channels on DTV?

So my second idea would be to switch to DirectTV, however I'm not sure if I have the best sky for the Dish (neighbors have it, but we are closer to tree tips). Do you have to have 100% perfection when it comes to HD channels on DTV?

When it comes to reception, you either get the digital signal or you don't. This applies across the board for cable, satellite, and over-the-air with an antenna. I believe what JunkyardDogg and others are talking about is the quality of the HD picture. In many cases, over-the-air broadcasts use more bandwidth (bits) than cable or satellite for the same HD channel. That's because cable and satellite try to fit as many channels as they can into their bandwidth. Broadcast TV doesn't have that strict of a limitation since its bandwidth is somewhat limited and can afford to spend most of it on an HD subchannel and perhaps a few SD subchannels.

In short, the HD channels on broadcast TV are usually of better quality than on cable or satellite. (However, your mileage may vary...)

Are you asking about OTA?

If you have the option and the pricing is good, I would switch in an instant. Had the analog cable with 30/30 Mbps internet. The internet was incredible, but I believe they are no longer giving symmetric internet service.

Recently, one of my friends switched from TW. Got HD-DVR and 20/5 Mbps internet. Was over on Sunday to watch the Vikings-Saints game. Looked about the same as TW and OTA, so no difference there. But on the other cable channels (ESPN, TBS, etc) there was much less artifacts and compression problems when compared to what I have on TW. The difference in the DVR is the interface. CinBell is using the older interface that TW had before Navigator. Haha, it works much better than Navigator(go figure), super quick on the navigation and channel change, but it doesn't look as clean. So if you want a pretty interface, its not that, but quick and easy, it is.

Other friends living Downtown and Lebanon also have the service and they would also recommend it. But, in my friend in Lebanon said the rates did go up after the introductory rates, but I am not sure by how much. There was an article a couple months back about CinBell expanding service, because they were getting over 50% share in the neighborhoods they moved into.

Again, if you can get the service, there is really no reason not to switch, better HD and internet, bye-bye TW!

Thanks so much for the feedback. I signed up and the install will be the Tuesday after Superbowl (I made them delay just in case there are problems). Even without the promotional discounts they are $60/mo cheaper than TWC and the internet is 3x faster. I'll make a full report after things are up and operating for a week or two.