Hartford, CT - OTA [Text View] - Page 21

andy.s.lee

03-19-07, 08:28 PM

Does that mean I need my OTA antenna 70' high? Thanks Jeff
The short answer is "No."

For the long answer refer to the attached radar plot. Longer bars represent stronger signals. Details about each transmitter is in the table to the right of the plot.

Determining how high you need to go depends on your exact location since the amount of terrain blockage you will experience changes from place to place. For the arbitrarily chosen point in the 06514 zip code for this radar plot, there are several channels that are diffracting over the tops of hills rather than having a line-of-sight path (look for "1Edge" or "2Edge" under the "Path" heading).

Even when you are not getting a LOS path to the transmitter, there is still a very usable amount of diffracted signal energy available. At this particular simulated point, for example, I would expect a roof mounted antenna (e.g., a Channel Master 4228) to easily pick up any channel with a reading of -100 dBm or above (give or take) under the column labeled "Rx_dBm".

In order to truly get up into the LOS path, the antenna would need to be raised to the level indicated under the "LOS_h" column (and those numbers are in meters). Naturally, a 100 meter tower is out of the question for most of us, but as seen here, it's possible to get a great signal with a much lower antenna. Higher is always better, but even a simple roof installation will suffice.

In the case of WTIC (analog 61, digital 31 -- antennaweb should have shown 61.1 instead of 31.1), the channel seems to be relatively easy to pick up with a rooftop antenna. It's definitely too weak to expect indoor antenna reception, but once you're outside and as high as possible, it's really not that bad.

If you are curious about the channel situation at your precise location, just let me know your coordinates and antenna height.

Best regards,
Andy

RTracey

03-20-07, 11:43 AM

Andy - I'll bite; 06357, 150 feet above sea level. Thanks!

Ross

andy.s.lee

03-20-07, 12:07 PM

Andy - I'll bite; 06357, 150 feet above sea level. Thanks!

Ross
Sure, Ross, but could you provide a more specific location (send via PM if you like)? This area is very hilly, and slight changes in location can make a significant difference in terrain blockage. I wouldn't want to give you a false sense of what you can expect to get. :)

Best regards,
Andy

RTracey

03-20-07, 12:22 PM

will do Andy - I'll pull out the GPS receiver when I get home and send you the coordinates. Thanks.

Ross

vssman

03-20-07, 12:27 PM

Any updates on when WTIC will be transmitting 61.1/31.3 from the top of the tower at full power? Reception in Naugatuck has been poor all winter maybe 65% although sometimes I get a 90% signal for a day or two. Could the tower work be causing that much change in signal strength?

woodsmith

03-20-07, 02:20 PM

My zip is 06517. Jeff

bret4

03-20-07, 07:40 PM

DirecTV controls the channels that show up in the OTA list? Now that you say that, I do remember reading something about that "issue" with the HR20. That's bizzare that it's up to them to do that. Have you called them about it?

It is bizzare that they do it that way. Many people want them to change it so they can search for OTA channels with the HR20. Then even if it doesn't have guide data you still could watch the channel without switching to your TV tunner.

I'll have to call D* and see what they say.

mdodge

03-20-07, 07:52 PM

For those of you who missed the Ice Palace yesterday (3/19/07).

The rime ice was 1 to 1 1/2 inch thick on the upper guy wires and antennas of the two tall towers on Rattlesnake Mountain. The long pieces falling were probably in excess of 10' long.

mdodge

03-20-07, 08:10 PM

It's official - WEDH Analog build begins.

Here's the first cabinet being placed.

mdodge

03-20-07, 08:31 PM

For the long answer refer to the attached radar plot. Longer bars represent stronger signals. Details about each transmitter is in the table to the right of the plot.

Andy

Andy:

Nice graph. Could you explain what the numbers represent under the column "Tx_Kw" and how you derived the received signal strength?

Thanks,
Marc

ctdish

03-20-07, 09:19 PM

It's official - WEDH Analog build begins.

Here's the first cabinet being placed.
It's too bad that the 2009 analog shutdown will give it such a short life.
John

andy.s.lee

03-21-07, 02:25 AM

Andy - I'll bite; 06357, 150 feet above sea level. Thanks!
Sure, Ross! See the attached radar plot for the analysis.

My interpretation:

- It looks like WFSB is blocked a bit more than most of the other channels that you are receiving. If you look under the "LOS_h" column, that's how high you would need to be (in meters) in order to be in the line-of-sight path to the transmitter. The higher obstruction reduces the signal strength a bit, but it looks like there's still enough signal strength diffracting over the hilltops to be receivable via a rooftop antenna.

- You are probably right about WHPX interfering with reception of WFSB. It's on an adjacent channel and about 40+ dB stronger. This can pose a problem for tuners that do not have good adjacent channel rejection. However, if you have a highly directional antenna, you might be able to aim the antenna such that you mostly get WFSB and lower the sensitivity to WHPX. There's about a 50 degree separation between the two, so it should be possible to mostly null out WHPX with the proper choice of antenna and orientation.

I believe it should be possible to receive WFSB even while WHPX is on the air, but the best setup would involve a highly directional antenna plus a motorized rotator so that you can "tune out" WHPX.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Andy

andy.s.lee

03-21-07, 02:59 AM

Nice graph. Could you explain what the numbers represent under the column "Tx_Kw" and how you derived the received signal strength?

Sure, Marc!

The Tx_KW is based on the ERP and antenna pattern on file with the FCC. It is basically the effective power being sent "in the direction of my simulated point in space". Since a lot of broadcasters used directional antennas, this number will usually be something lower than the raw ERP you would see listed in the FCC database for any particular broadcaster.

The received signal strength is based on high density Longley-Rice propagation modeling. The value you see is for a theoretical point floating in space (lat, long, height). It does not factor in things like antenna gain, pre-amps, cable losses, splitters, etc. Since this is simply a representation of what's "in the air" at a point in space, it is up to the user to factor in their own receiver setup since I don't know what is between "the air" and their tuner.

Best regards,
Andy

ckramer

03-21-07, 02:32 PM

Anyone else experiencing "no signal" with WVIT-DT right now??

Cable70

03-21-07, 03:12 PM

Yes I was earlier but it seems to be back on now .

RTracey

03-21-07, 04:48 PM

Sure, Ross! See the attached radar plot for the analysis.

My interpretation:

- It looks like WFSB is blocked a bit more than most of the other channels that you are receiving. If you look under the "LOS_h" column, that's how high you would need to be (in meters) in order to be in the line-of-sight path to the transmitter. The higher obstruction reduces the signal strength a bit, but it looks like there's still enough signal strength diffracting over the hilltops to be receivable via a rooftop antenna.

- You are probably right about WHPX interfering with reception of WFSB. It's on an adjacent channel and about 40+ dB stronger. This can pose a problem for tuners that do not have good adjacent channel rejection. However, if you have a highly directional antenna, you might be able to aim the antenna such that you mostly get WFSB and lower the sensitivity to WHPX. There's about a 50 degree separation between the two, so it should be possible to mostly null out WHPX with the proper choice of antenna and orientation.

I believe it should be possible to receive WFSB even while WHPX is on the air, but the best setup would involve a highly directional antenna plus a motorized rotator so that you can "tune out" WHPX.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Andy

This is great Andy - thanks!! I agree with your comments about WFSB and the appropriate antenna set-up. I did try a CM4228 a while ago without much success, but it may have been when they were still messing around with their new antenna and weren't very forthcoming about when they were actually at full power.

A few questions if you don't mind - you mentioned in an earlier post that anything greater than -100 in the Rx_dBm column should be easily picked up by a rooftop antenna. Those are negative numbers in that column, so technically speaking, that means -97 is better than -100; is that what you meant? (can you tell I'm a scientist?). Secondly, the LOS_h is height in meters, but is that above sea level, or above ground level at the given location? What does the Min_h column refer to? Thanks again!

Ross

andy.s.lee

03-21-07, 05:38 PM

This is great Andy - thanks!! I agree with your comments about WFSB and the appropriate antenna set-up. I did try a CM4228 a while ago without much success, but it may have been when they were still messing around with their new antenna and weren't very forthcoming about when they were actually at full power.
FYI, the CM 4228 is a good antenna, but its antenna pattern actually has a secondary set of lobes on either side of it's main lobe. This means it's actually not the greatest antenna for trying to null out a channel that's 50 degrees off-axis. It's a good antenna for a lot of other reasons, but since you're trying to null out a specific transmitter cluster, you'll want to be extra picky about antenna radiation patterns.

A few questions if you don't mind - you mentioned in an earlier post that anything greater than -100 in the Rx_dBm column should be easily picked up by a rooftop antenna. Those are negative numbers in that column, so technically speaking, that means -97 is better than -100; is that what you meant?
Exactly right! The transmitters are sorted with the strongest channels at the top and the Rx_dBm goes to lower negative numbers as you go down the list. The green-to-red background coloring is also meant as a hint for what's better and what's worse.

FYI, dBm stands for decibels with respect to 1 milliwatt. Other units you might come across are dBW (dB w.r.t 1 Watt) and dBu (dB w.r.t. 1 uVolt/meter). In fact, if you ever look at the FCC online TV database, you'll find data and plots for things like a channel's "41 dBu service contour". These are all just different ways of measuring signal level.

Secondly, the LOS_h is height in meters, but is that above sea level, or above ground level at the given location? What does the Min_h column refer to?
Both LOS_h and Min_h are with respect to ground level at the given coordinates.

Min_h is an approximate threshold for antenna height where signals start to get picked up by a typical long-range antenna. If an antenna were mounted on an imaginary mast going from the ground up to the sky, this is the height where the signal strength (including diffracted or direct signal paths) starts to get strong enough for minimal operation. Keep in mind that it's usually a good idea to try and get even stronger signal to have more margin for multipath, bad weather, and other variations. There is also a lot of variation between antennas, so this value is certainly a rough approximation.

The importance of the Min_h value is in judging the severity of diffraction angle. TV signals can only "bend" very small angles, so if there's a big hill right next to your house, the Min_h would be almost the same as the LOS_h. Conversely, if the main obstruction is a mountain a few miles away, the Min_h can be very low (possibly even zero) even when the LOS_h is very high. At such large distances, the angle if diffraction will be very small, allowing most of the signal energy to reach you.

Best regards,
Andy

keldarironfist

03-21-07, 06:29 PM

i cant really get an outdoor one at the moment so im curious as to what some of the better/best indoor antennas are.

my antenna web results and yes i would need vhf as well but couldn't i connect vhf bunny ears to a uhf antenna...? not sure how you would do it though....these are the digital results i did not include the analog.

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf WFSB-DT 3.1 CBS HARTFORD CT 326° 2.4 33
* yellow - uhf WUVN-DT 18.1 UNI HARTFORD CT 331° 2.2 46
* yellow - uhf WEDH-DT 45 PBS HARTFORD CT 237° 4.5 45
* red - vhf WWLP-DT 22.1 NBC SPRINGFIELD MA 22° 23.2 11
* red - uhf WVIT-DT 30.1 NBC NEW BRITAIN CT 235° 4.7 35
* red - vhf WTXX-DT 20.1 CW WATERBURY CT 237° 4.5 12
* red - uhf WTIC-DT 31.1 FOX HARTFORD CT 237° 4.5 31
* red - uhf WGBY-DT 57.1 PBS SPRINGFIELD MA 24° 34.4 58
* blue - uhf WGGB-DT 40.1 ABC SPRINGFIELD MA 24° 34.4 55

andy.s.lee

03-21-07, 06:31 PM

RTracey

03-21-07, 07:50 PM

RTracey

03-21-07, 07:54 PM

FYI, the CM 4228 is a good antenna, but its antenna pattern actually has a secondary set of lobes on either side of it's main lobe. This means it's actually not the greatest antenna for trying to null out a channel that's 50 degrees off-axis. It's a good antenna for a lot of other reasons, but since you're trying to null out a specific transmitter cluster, you'll want to be extra picky about antenna radiation patterns.

Very helpful Andy, thanks. Good points about the CM4228 - in case I ever get desperate enough to put up a third antenna just for WFSB, do you have any thoughts on a high gain, directional UHF antenna without the side lobe issues of the 4228?

Ross

vmaxed

03-22-07, 11:23 AM

ctdish

03-22-07, 12:35 PM

John,

See the attached radar plot for an analysis of the channels at your location.

My interpretation:

- WHPX (34) causes pretty bad adjacent channel problems here. Its azimuth is also very close to both of its channel neighbors WVIT (35) and WFSB (33), which means that it won't be possible to screen out WHPX with a simple antenna adjustment. To cope with a situation like this, the best option is to use a few notch filters to knock down channel 34.

- A lot of the channels are diffracting over the hilltops, but as you've already figured out, quite a few of them are receivable.

Best regards,
Andy
Andy,
Thanks for the quick reply. The general trend of station signal strength agrees with my actual reception. In a few cases like WJAR and WLNE, the weaker of the two is calculated to be stronger. Also WLWC and WNAC are calculated to be very close in strength but I receive a much better signal from WLWC.
I get the stations from Providence more reliably so I usually leave the antenna pointed in that direction. The PAX network has worked to make reception here difficult. I needed to get a channel 17 deletion filter to receive Providence channels without amp clipping.
Channel 26 is even worse in the general direction of Hartford, but I haven't sprung for the channel 26 filter. Filters that remove channel 34 also weaken channels 33 and 35. Hopefully after the analog shutdown 34 will go away. My UHF antenna is made of four yagis. The horizontal spacing produces a notch at about 13 deg. If I aim the notch at channel 26 I can usually get channel 35 somewhat unreliably but no sign of channel 33 until 34 goes off air.
I assume the WTIC and WEDH levels are the future levels with their antennas at the top of the tower. Your calculated levels put them at about the same strength as WFTY which presently is noticeably stronger than any stations that I receive except PAX's and Norwich PBS.
I also have a question about the Rx_dBm levels. How do these relate to the dBu levels specified on the FCC web site. These indicate that a level of 41 dBu for minimum UHF and 36 dBu for minimum VHF reception are required. Assuming that they are negative numbers and subtracting 30 would make the UHF value –71 dBm which seems larger than your calculated for many stations that can be received.
John

vmaxed

03-22-07, 07:49 PM

20.1 WTXX-DT..(20) Is 12.3 now :confused:

davevandam

03-22-07, 08:24 PM

Hey I'm watching the NCAA Playoffs on CBS Ch 3 in HD. Is it just me or does the picture quality seem kinda pixelated?

MrSpeed

03-22-07, 09:50 PM

KML-224

03-22-07, 11:48 PM

Here in New Britain, I still can't get a stable signal of WFSB-DT (CBS) or WUVN-DT (UNI) with any type of antenna. I can get WCTX-DT (MY) with an ordinary indoor rabbit ear, but not through Comcast and my QAM tuner. If I point towards the southeast, I'll get so-so WHPX-DT (ION) and WPXQ-DT (ION) and a tiny bit of WEDN-DT (PBS).

toca

03-23-07, 08:50 AM

Hello,
This may not be the right forum to post in but...
I bought a Vizio VX37l with a built in QAM tuner. I received ally locals beautifully over the weekend with Comcast. Monday I lose almost everything. I called Comcast but they were pretty unhelpful but they set out a tech today. He hooked up his digiatl box and everything worked as it should. All locals came in around channells 231-328 or so.

I currentl can watch ABCHD on channel 74-17. The comcast guy mentioned something about encryption.

SO basically am I out of luck with my QAn tuner and need to go OTA ? I live on a prett steep hill on 06480 (Portland) and I thinkk my line of site to the antennas is going to be hampered. I hate the thought of going back to a roof-top antenna.

I'm in a similar situation. I just purchased a Toshiba Regza (32hl67) and have Charter Communications cable. Ran through the auto programming function and it picked up both analog and digital stations and even lets me know which ones are encrypted.

Charter offers WFSB, WVIT, FOX61, YES and NESN unencrypted. However, I'm only picking up FOX 61 and NESN plus WFSB NOW and two Charter promo stations. All these stations picked up by my QAM tuner get assigned to channel 0. When I press 0 on my remote, FOX61 is the channel that always gets displayed. I then can use the up/down key to get the other ones. If I go to the Toshiba Signal Meter screen, it shows a Physical Digital Channel, which is different for all the QAM found stations and a Virtual Digital Channel, which is always 0.

Is it possible that my Toshiba has a limit as to how many virtual channel 0's it can handle? Taking a stab that someone might know a work around as I'd love to get WFSB and WVIT.

antennamonkey

03-23-07, 09:09 AM

Hello,
This may not be the right forum to post in but...
I bought a Vizio VX37l with a built in QAM tuner. I received ally locals beautifully over the weekend with Comcast. Monday I lose almost everything. I called Comcast but they were pretty unhelpful but they set out a tech today. He hooked up his digiatl box and everything worked as it should. All locals came in around channells 231-328 or so.

I currentl can watch ABCHD on channel 74-17. The comcast guy mentioned something about encryption.

SO basically am I out of luck with my QAn tuner and need to go OTA ? I live on a prett steep hill on 06480 (Portland) and I thinkk my line of site to the antennas is going to be hampered. I hate the thought of going back to a roof-top antenna.
I work in the cable tv industry and as far as I understand it those channels are considered to be local of air and must pass thru unencrypted even though they convert from an 8VSB to QAM 64 or QAM 256 signal. They should not add encryption to an over the air channel and that would cost them money they would not get back anyway. There are many things that can cause this but ill try to help with what was most common in your area. Your problem is more likely to be poor signal levels or bad cable. I worked in the comcast system where you are and have seen local signals get in (ingress) and interfere with channels in the 70's. Channel 71 and 72 get inteference from OTA analog 20 UHF. 73 and 74 by 22 UHF. 75 and 76 by UHF 24. Things like that. Portland is not as low as you may think and if you put up a roof antenna you may see the analog signals that are interfering. So the answer to you problem is get another tech who knows how to make sure you are getting the proper signals. Have them check signal levels for each QAM channel in the 70's. No less than -12dBmv and no more than +2dBmv with no more than 1 dB+/- on adjacent channels. Also make sure you have all new connectors on RG-6 Quad cable from the tap (street) to all points. Symptoms will be loss of signal at night, after a heavy rain, windy days show digital break-up. Hope this helps, John

sp1dey

03-23-07, 10:26 AM

20.1 WTXX-DT..(20) Is 12.3 now :confused:

Is this permanent? I only have one season pass, Smallville, but I missed last nights episode because of this. I'd hate to make the change only to miss another.

brewer4

03-23-07, 12:16 PM

Looking at WVIT-DT Channel 30 NBC and it has no signal strength. Anyone know whats up?

RTracey

03-23-07, 12:36 PM

Looking at WVIT-DT Channel 30 NBC and it has no signal strength. Anyone know whats up?

Nothing here either, but I think this may be one of the antennas they're working on - could always call WVIT engineering and ask.

Ross

ckramer

03-23-07, 03:15 PM

Looking at WVIT-DT Channel 30 NBC and it has no signal strength. Anyone know whats up?
Same thing on 3/21, midday also.... post # 5049

andy.s.lee

03-23-07, 05:28 PM

The general trend of station signal strength agrees with my actual reception. In a few cases like WJAR and WLNE, the weaker of the two is calculated to be stronger. Also WLWC and WNAC are calculated to be very close in strength but I receive a much better signal from WLWC.
It's not that I or anyone else should ever expect a simulation tool to be perfect, BUT, I do have a minor comment or two just to clarify something...

One of the caveats that people often overlook is that the simulation represents the signal strength "in the air" and does not account for any antenna / amp / distribution / receiver gains or losses. It's natural to think of the receiver chain as having a single constant gain factor across all channels, but in reality the gain is frequency and direction sensitive. Antennas rarely have a flat frequency response to begin with, and when you factor in the various radiation pattern shapes, the orientation relative to the transmitters, and the frequency response of other downstream elements, you can expect to see several dB of variation in the gain response of the system across channels.

That's not to say that the simulation doesn't have its own shortcomings (e.g., lack of building data, trees, multipath effects, etc.). However, it's important to consider how all the stuff between "the air" and your tuner will affect observed results.

There are so many variations of antenna makes / models, radiation patterns, orientation, frequency response, amps, and receivers that there's no practical way for me to incorporate those factors into the simulation, so it's an exercise left up to the user to factor in what they know about their own setup.

Filters that remove channel 34 also weaken channels 33 and 35. Hopefully after the analog shutdown 34 will go away.
It's probably not necessary to completely knock out channel 34. Every tuner should have some degree of adjacent channel filtering, so channel 34 only needs to be brought down to the point where the tuner can deal with the rest. I suspect that most tuners could handle up to a 20 dB adjacent channel margin reasonably well, but that all depends on how well it's designed.

Or... you could wait... Afterall, it's only TV... But then, waiting for something to happen (a year or more) always feels like an eternity. ;)

I assume the WTIC and WEDH levels are the future levels with their antennas at the top of the tower. Your calculated levels put them at about the same strength as WFTY which presently is noticeably stronger than any stations that I receive except PAX's and Norwich PBS.
How high and how much power do you think they are transmitting today? I try to maintain a database of "overrides" that fix errors in the FCC database when I find them so that future analysis will have the fixed transmitter data. If you have any better information, please let me know!

It looks like there are multiple FCC records for WTIC (circa 2004) that have them transmitting ~380 kW at either 389 or 182 meters above ground (I'm using 389 meters).

There is only one active record for WEDH, dating back to 1999, with a 465 kW transmitter 388 meters above ground.

I also have a question about the Rx_dBm levels. How do these relate to the dBu levels specified on the FCC web site. These indicate that a level of 41 dBu for minimum UHF and 36 dBu for minimum VHF reception are required.
This is going to be a rather long answer, so please let me apologize in advance...

1) dBm and dBu

dBu is short for dBuV/m. dBu is a measure of field strength while dBm is a measure of power. If this were the ocean, it would be like one is measuring the size of a wave and the other is measuring the amount of energy being carried inside the wave, but these are essentially the same since they can be derived from each other. You can convert dBu to dBm using the following equation.

dBm = dBu - 90 - 20*log( sqrt(impedance) )
The characteristic impedance for standard TV tuners is 75 ohms, so this works out to about dBm=dBu-108.8

2) The significance of 41 dBu

The FCC uses Longley-Rice modeling to predict transmitter coverage and from there, they derive the 41 dBu contours (and other levels depending on frequency). For DTV service, they use what's called the F(50,90) curves in the L-R model. This represents a "confidence" value of 50% and "reliability" value of 90%. Without going into the details of what these mean, to put it simply, these values determine how aggressive or conservative you want to model to be in terms of estimating propagation losses.

The 41 dBu threshold is a usable signal approximation put forth by the FCC. It is based on a whole lot of assumptions about the consumer including things like system noise figure (amps/tuners/etc.), tuner sensitivity, antenna gain, attenuation due to building penetration, antenna height, and usable signal-to-noise ratio. The 41 dBu service contour for a transmitter marks the zone in which the FCC considers the average user to be "in service". They use different thresholds for VHF because the propagation losses and building penetration assumptions are different at lower frequencies.

A lot of assumptions went into chosing this threshold, so your particular situation could be much better or worse than the one assumed by the FCC. For example, if you use a 15 dB gain antenna on the roof, you probably have at least a 30 dB advantage over set-top rabbit-ears in the living room.

3) Rx_dBm

I also use L-R modeling for my results, although there are at least 3 important differences compared to the FCC's version.

a) I use F(99,99) results from the L-R model. Based on my own field testing, it seemed that the F(50,90) setting was a bit too optimistic. Several other people/groups had come to a similar conclusion. In rough terms, it looked like the FCC's signal strength predictions were coming out too high, by maybe 10 dB. The F(99,99) setting might be a little bit on the pessimistic side, but for the most part, this setting does a much better job of matching my expectations.

b) The FCC uses their own terrain database, which I believe was originally created by tracing elevation contour lines on topo maps. I use terrain data from the Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM). I actually use a substantially cleaned up version of this data from CGIAR, which fixes most of the spikes, dips, and voids present in the original data. At one point I tried using the FCC's terrain data, but found several anomalies that just didn't seem right, so I stopped using it. The SRTM data seems to carry greater detail and probably has better overall accuracy.

c) I believe that my terrain profile modeling is done with far greater density and resolution than the FCC. You'll notice that all the service contour maps on the FCC web page lack detail. It kinda makes sense given that most of the software they use have their roots in the 1950's and 60's. It wasn't until recently that RAM, hard disks, and CPUs have become powerful enough to scale the problem up this way. I believe the FCC typically used terrain profiles with points every 500 meters, whereas I would typically use points every 40 meters or less.

4) Putting it all together

41 dBu is equivalent to about -68 dBm, and is the level the FCC considers to be a usable signal. I would agree with that. In my experience, signals above -68 dBm are considered quite strong and I would expect the majority of people to have success receiving these channels with an indoor set-top antenna. This is a situation with low antenna gain and a lot of loss due to building penetration.

For signals down to about -90 to -100 dBm, it becomes progressively more difficult to receive the stations, and it becomes necessary to get antennas with higher gain, move the antenna higher (i.e., second floor or attic), or both. This is a situation where the increased antenna gain and reduced building penetration losses are enough to extract a usable signal.

For signals below about -100 dBm, it is usually necessary to go to a high gain antenna (those categorized as "long-range") mounted on the roof. This is a situation where the only way to get a usable signal is via a lot of gain on the antenna and zero building penetration losses.

Of course, these are just rough guidelines since antenna gain, receiver sensitivity, building materials, multipath, and other variables will determine what your actual experiences will be.

Due to the optimistic F(50,90) modeling parameters and the low resolution of the FCC's contour plots, you'll find that the displayed service contours are a little too generous in terms of indoor usability. The curves to not follow the nooks and crannies of the terrain, and the boundaries are a little further out than they ought to be.

In the end, it all boils down to the signal strength you need to watch TV. Regardless of any thresholds set by the FCC or the labelling of antennas (i.e., "long-range" vs. "short-range"), once you know what signal levels you're dealing with, you can work out what equipment you need to capture that signal.

For example, someone might be very close to a transmitter, but blocked by a hill. It may be appropriate for that person to use a high gain antenna on the roof to get that channel even though it is not "long-range" and is probably well inside the FCC's service contour.

Whew... Again, sorry for the long post. I hope at least some of this makes sense.

Best regards,
Andy

vmaxed

03-23-07, 05:39 PM

Is this permanent? I only have one season pass, Smallville, but I missed last nights episode because of this. I'd hate to make the change only to miss another.

It's back to 20-1 now.... :confused:

Ed...:rolleyes:

andy.s.lee

03-23-07, 05:46 PM

Very helpful Andy, thanks. Good points about the CM4228 - in case I ever get desperate enough to put up a third antenna just for WFSB, do you have any thoughts on a high gain, directional UHF antenna without the side lobe issues of the 4228?
I think the AntennasDirect XG91 would work, but I don't actually own one, so you'll have to take that with a grain of salt. Perhaps someone else on the forum has direct experience with this or has other recommendations...

Best regards,
Andy

mdodge

03-23-07, 08:24 PM

It's too bad that the 2009 analog shutdown will give it such a short life.
John

It will probably be converted to digital and used as a backup tx.

Marc

deconvolver

03-23-07, 08:37 PM

...

If you are curious about the channel situation at your precise location, just let me know your coordinates and antenna height.

Best regards,
Andy
Andy,
Could you run a prediction at my location in Lisbon? I have PM'ed you with my coordinates. My antenna is on the roof of my single story house. Thanks.

andy.s.lee

03-23-07, 08:59 PM

Andy,
Could you run a prediction at my location in Lisbon? I have PM'ed you with my coordinates. My antenna is on the roof of my single story house. Thanks.
Here you go! See attached file.

It looks like you're in a tough spot. There are not a whole lot of digital channels within reach PLUS you have to contend with co-channel interference on some of them.

If you have any questions about these results, just let me know. I hope this helps!

Best regards,
Andy

Donjoy

03-24-07, 08:02 AM

I put a DB4 & DB2 together today to try and get my Digital Stations in
with out using a rotor and it works fine.I point the DB4 at SPRINGFIELD,MA and the DB2 at Rattlesnake Mountain.I used some 3/32 sold copper wire I had here from a job at work to join them together.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/enorton/Pics/P1020396.jpg
yellow - vhf
WTXX-DT 20.1 CW WATERBURY CT 139° 3.7 12

yellow - uhf
WTIC-DT 31.1 FOX HARTFORD CT 139° 3.7 31
yellow - uhf
WFSB-DT 3.1 CBS HARTFORD CT 71° 5.2 33

yellow - uhf
WVIT-DT 30.1 NBC NEW BRITAIN CT 142° 3.9 35

red - uhf
WUVN-DT 18.1 UNI HARTFORD CT 73° 5.4 46

red - vhf
WTNH-DT 10.1 ABC NEW HAVEN CT 202° 21.8 10
red - uhf
WGGB 40.1 ABC SPRINGFIELD MA 33° 37.2 40

blue - vhf
WWLP-DT 22.1 NBC SPRINGFIELD MA 35° 26.0 11
blue - uhf
WGBY 57.1 PBS SPRINGFIELD MA 33° 37.2 57
violet - uhf
WCTX-DT 59.1 MNT NEW HAVEN CT 202° 21.8 39
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/enorton/Pics/P1020400.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/enorton/Pics/P1020554.jpg

Hi I was wondering where you purchased the equipment to build your antenna, I live in Enfield Ct and would like to point to Hartford and Springfield to maximize channels , your setup looks great! I'm also interested in the arm & mount holding the antenna Any help would be greatly apprecciated
TY
Don Joy

vmaxed

03-24-07, 10:54 AM

Hi I was wondering where you purchased the equipment to build your antenna, I live in Enfield Ct and would like to point to Hartford and Springfield to maximize channels , your setup looks great! I'm also interested in the arm & mount holding the antenna Any help would be greatly apprecciated
TY
Don Joy

Don...I made my mast out of 1 1/4" EMT I bought a 10ft length at Lowe's and cut off 3ft.The hard part was finding someone that had a 1 1/4 pipe bender.Then I panted it with some rustoleum paint.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/enorton/Pics/P1020411.jpg

I was able to get on the roof yesterday and change the copper wire too 12 gage outdoor romex sold copper wire.It is easy to turn now with out grounding out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/enorton/Pics/P1020582.jpg

I bought the DB2,Db4, and mount at www.solidsignal.com

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=AD-DB2

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=AD-DB4

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=&PROD=DS-1000

Have fun....Ed :)

deconvolver

03-24-07, 06:43 PM

woodsmith

03-25-07, 09:44 AM

OK, so I mounted a Channel Master 3021 with chimney straps and it brings in ABC - 98%, CBS - 84%, NBC - 84% My TV 9 - 86% yet no Fox HD. What would I need to do to get FOX? Thanks Jeff

shaunz

03-25-07, 10:38 AM

I too am having issues getting FOX 61 in HD. I am in Wolcott and using a Jensen indoor antenna and get ABC, CBS, NBC with great reception including CBS in Springfield. Any ideas?

raoul5788

03-25-07, 10:42 AM

I too am having issues getting FOX 61 in HD. I am in Wolcott and using a Jensen indoor antenna and get ABC, CBS, NBC with great reception including CBS in Springfield. Any ideas?

WTIC DT has been off air for a couple of days for me. I have signal, but no picture. It's likely a PSIP problem again.

woodsmith

03-25-07, 11:10 AM

Chip, what signal strength are you getting from FOX HD? What type of OTA antenna are you using? Thanks Jeff

raoul5788

03-25-07, 11:30 AM

Chip, what signal strength are you getting from FOX HD? What type of OTA antenna are you using? Thanks Jeff

I have a Channel Master 4228. The meter in my Sony HD200 shows "Bad-Normal-Good". I would guess it's about 80%. I'm guessing you are in Cheshire too.

vmaxed

03-25-07, 11:47 AM

I have the same problem with FOX 61.1 on my Samsung 3251D, I get the analog version 61 but not the digital 61.1.It just started two days ago.

I receive digital 61.1 fine on my Dish Network VIP 211 and 622..

I am so close (3 1/2 miles) the signal strength is 98/100 %.

Ed... :)

RTracey

03-25-07, 01:23 PM

I think the AntennasDirect XG91 would work, but I don't actually own one, so you'll have to take that with a grain of salt. Perhaps someone else on the forum has direct experience with this or has other recommendations...

Best regards,
Andy

Thanks again Andy

Ross

RTracey

03-25-07, 01:23 PM

No problems right now with 61.1 on an HR10-250.

Ross

rnb2

03-25-07, 04:19 PM

But it seems to have died again - I was watching NASCAR for a bit, scanned through the channels to see what else was on, and 61.1 has now disappeared. I just have an indoor RCA antenna (apartment), but I've never had problems with FOX HD before. Don't watch much (that's why we ditched cable), so I wasn't aware of the problems over the last few days.

Rick

woodsmith

03-25-07, 04:40 PM

Does anybody know if Channel Master 3021 should get Fox HD in Hamden? Or is it that Fox HD is having problems? I'll try another autosearch. Jeff

Betelgeuse135

03-25-07, 05:14 PM

Does anybody know if Channel Master 3021 should get Fox HD in Hamden? Or is it that Fox HD is having problems? I'll try another autosearch. Jeff

Fox HD is definitely having problems. I (on Whitney Ave in New Haven) am usually able to get it easily, but haven't been able to get it for the last few days.

vmaxed

03-25-07, 05:18 PM

Jeff..point your antenna at WFSB-DT 3.1 CBS and get your strongest signal,that is where you will get FOX 61.1 from your zip.

Ed.. ;)

andy.s.lee

03-25-07, 07:23 PM

Andy,
Thank you very much for the simulation results. Except for WTXX, WTIC and WEDH the results agree very well with my real reception. It looks like those three stations were simulated at their future locations at the top of the tower about 500 meters HAAT or about 600m AMSL. Those are really the results I wanted :) since hopefully WTXX and WTIC will be up there in a few months and WEDH should be at that location once it goes on the air. If it is possible I am interested in the analog stations as well because I would like to know if any stations besides WEDN are an issue for overloading my pre-amplifier and what the predictions of the co-channel interference for channels 10 and 12 are. BTW there is not really a co-channel issue between WEDN and WEDH since they are both operated by CPTV and WEDN will be off channel 45 when WEDH-DT goes live.
Here are the analog results.

It's true that the transmitter data can get messed up for some broadcasters. The FCC database has all kinds of issues and we just need to interpret it as best we can. Case in point, in this analysis, it looks like WHCT and WUNV need to get straightened out. It goes both ways, either old records that haven't been removed, or new records that have been added before the actual transmitter has gone live.

If you want to see how things "really are", then let me know what FCC entries reflect the current reality and I can fix the data.

Best regards,
Andy

deconvolver

03-25-07, 09:28 PM

Thanks again Andy.

woodsmith

03-25-07, 09:45 PM

I do have it pointed toward the north- north west angle. It is up pretty high on the roof. I guess I'll just try after someone who get it from around this area says there getting it for a check. I didn't know if a different antenna would do the trick. .. Jeff

ckramer

03-26-07, 08:53 AM

WVIT-DT is out again. I tried calling their engineering dept., but no answer......

schmitter

03-26-07, 09:43 AM

The newsrooms always seem to answer. Just like any company, if you want tech support, press the buttons for sales.

woodsmith

03-26-07, 07:53 PM

I want to thank everybody for their help. I did a autosearch and today all HD channels available in Hamden ( including FOX) are coming in bright and strong. All of you are so helpful. Good luck to all and let me know if I can be any assistance. Finally the Sony KDL 40V2500 shows it's worth in all areas. Jeff

raoul5788

03-26-07, 08:08 PM

shaunz

03-26-07, 09:03 PM

vmaxed

03-26-07, 09:21 PM

RTracey

03-27-07, 12:20 PM

What is the best antenna to use to get the channels. I am using a Jensen indoor antenna and am picking up NBC and ABC in HD in the 85% range. CBS HD I can only get to about 35%. And FOX I don't get at all in HD. Do I have to use an outdoor antenna?

If you want reliable reception, yes, you likely will need to go outdoors. CM4228 is generally the best antenna to use in CT, but given your location, you may be able to get away with it's smaller sibling, the CM4221. You may also need a rotor to pick up both the Hartford and New Haven stations. Ideally, someone near your location will reply with what works for them.

Note that some people have been have problems with Fox lately, and they are doing work on the Hartford transmitter tower.

Ross

vssman

03-27-07, 12:37 PM

I would think that most of Wolcott should be able to get great reception with an outdoor antenna as long as your not down in the hollow near Waterbury. If your there, I'd suspect - guess actually - that the rest of wolcott up on the hill would be blocking the signal from the east. Do an antennaweb.org search on your entire address. That should give you a decent starting point. I know someone up at the top of splindle hill that can pull in everything with just about a coat hanger...

shaunz

03-27-07, 02:10 PM

I am near the top of Southington Mountain (Route 322). According to antennaweb, this is what I can get for digital channels:

* yellow - vhf WTNH-DT 10.1 ABC NEW HAVEN CT 187° 9.7 10
* yellow - uhf WCTX-DT 59.1 MNT NEW HAVEN CT 187° 9.7 39
* red - vhf WTXX-DT 20.1 CW WATERBURY CT 50° 12.2 12
* red - uhf WVIT-DT 30.1 NBC NEW BRITAIN CT 51° 12.1 35
* red - vhf WEDY-DT 6 PBS NEW HAVEN CT FCC Ext 181° 16.5 6
* blue - uhf WEDH-DT 45 PBS HARTFORD CT 50° 12.2 45
* blue - uhf WSAH-DT 42 SAH BRIDGEPORT CT TBD 221° 15.6 42
* blue - uhf WFSB-DT 3.1 CBS HARTFORD CT 44° 17.1 33
* violet - uhf WUVN-DT 18.1 UNI HARTFORD CT 45° 17.2 46
* violet - uhf WTIC-DT 31.1 FOX HARTFORD CT 50° 12.2 31

So, should I forget about the indoor antenna and go with an outdoor one?

RTracey

03-27-07, 03:36 PM

Don't mean to be flip, but the answer seems pretty simple - you're unable to get the stations you want indoors, so you need an outdoor antenna.

Ross

raoul5788

03-27-07, 03:37 PM

RTracey

03-27-07, 03:48 PM

Chip - you're not too far from Wolcott; maybe you'd like to share with shaunz what you're using.

Ross

raoul5788

03-27-07, 04:11 PM

Chip - you're not too far from Wolcott; maybe you'd like to share with shaunz what you're using.

Ross

Sure! I have a Channel Master 4228 and Sony HD200 receiver. I'm alot lower than shaunz, though. I'm at about 250 ft asl. He is around 700-750 ft asl, so his reception should be better than mine. I am in a direct line between the towers on Rattlesnake Mtn and WTNH's tower, so I usually don't need to move my antenna. WTNH DT and WCTX DT are so strong I pick them up from the back of my 4228. In Wolcott I think you would be best to use a rotor. I get all of the CT stations except Norwich and Bridgeport. Hopefully CPTV will have WEDH DT up and running soon. Good luck!

RTracey

03-27-07, 04:27 PM

Thanks Chip. So based on your comments, I'm thinking shaunz should try the CM4228 - first try it without a rotor, then add if necessary. Agree?

Ross

raoul5788

03-27-07, 04:36 PM

Thanks Chip. So based on your comments, I'm thinking shaunz should try the CM4228 - first try it without a rotor, then add if necessary. Agree?

Ross

Yes I do. He may have enough signal being up so high that a rotor will not be needed. He's pretty close to being in line between the two towers like I am. I will bet with a rotor that he can get Norwich with no problem. Isn't there another board member from Wolcott? I wonder how well he gets PBS from Norwich, if at all.

shaunz

03-27-07, 05:59 PM

Thanks for all your input. I will look at getting the CM 4228 and giving that a try and keep you posted.

RTracey

03-27-07, 07:11 PM

Yes I do. He may have enough signal being up so high that a rotor will not be needed. He's pretty close to being in line between the two towers like I am. I will bet with a rotor that he can get Norwich with no problem. Isn't there another board member from Wolcott? I wonder how well he gets PBS from Norwich, if at all.

Not sure about the other member from Wolcott, but if so, maybe he'll check in.

Ross

mdodge

03-27-07, 08:03 PM

If you want to see how things "really are", then let me know what FCC entries reflect the current reality and I can fix the data.

Boy, Andy, that's an ambiguous statement. ;) I'm sure you're suggesting you'll fix your data not the FCC's. :p

I don't know how old you are but, if I remember correctly, the lawyers took over the FCC back in the mid 70's or so, when they threw out most of the engineers. Any semblance of usefull engineering data has been on a downhill slide since.

I wouldn't stake my reputation on the antenna data on the FCC's website. It wouldn't surprise me to see an antenna listed that was part of an obsolete application. :cool: Best would be to find the exact model number and go to the manufacturer's site. Or. . .

For my money, I'd just use the common three second terrain database and do a terrain plot with 4/3's earth curvature then do the path loss with an omni antenna. We're dealing with frerquencies below 700 MHz not microwave. Big hill in the way on a high U channel and it won't work; low U, maybe; V, probably.

Remember the top three requirements for an antenna:

1. Height
2. Height
3. Height

Marc

andy.s.lee

03-28-07, 06:56 AM

Boy, Andy, that's an ambiguous statement. ;) I'm sure you're suggesting you'll fix your data not the FCC's. :p
Well, yes, and no (can you tell how good my legal-speak is... not!). Actually, what I do is keep my own database of "overrides" for the FCC database. I take the FCC data in its native format (from their web site) and use it without any kind of conversion. I then parse it and apply my patches to the data prior to using it for any computations. The "overrides" take a few different forms. The simplest form is a simple pointer to indicate which records to use and which ones to ignore within the existing FCC records. Another form is where I actually input my own transmitter data (e.g., coordinates, height, power, antenna pattern, etc.).

I wouldn't stake my reputation on the antenna data on the FCC's website. It wouldn't surprise me to see an antenna listed that was part of an obsolete application. :cool: Best would be to find the exact model number and go to the manufacturer's site. Or. . .
Agreed. The FCC database certainly has its problems. For the lack of anything better (that's easy and free for me to download), I will just use what the FCC provides. It seems to be right at least some of the time.... :)

For my money, I'd just use the common three second terrain database and do a terrain plot with 4/3's earth curvature then do the path loss with an omni antenna. We're dealing with frerquencies below 700 MHz not microwave. Big hill in the way on a high U channel and it won't work; low U, maybe; V, probably.
That's pretty close to what I do. I use a Longley-Rice ITM with F(99,99) probability curves over 3 second finalized (v2) SRTM data that's been cleaned up by the group at CGIAR. I actually do use the antenna patterns, if they're on file. Any missing antenna patterns are modeled as omni.

Best regards,
Andy

jake14mw

03-28-07, 03:54 PM

So does anyone know the current status of WTIC-DT? Are they still doing work that requires the transmitter to be lower than it used to be?

RTracey

03-28-07, 07:14 PM

Anyone else having a problem with WTNH or WCTX right now? Looks like I'm getting a carrier, but no signal. Thanks.

Ross

woodsmith

03-28-07, 07:29 PM

Ross, I am having the same problem here in Hamden. Signal was at 98% yet no picture. Same with WCTX. Jeff

ckramer

03-28-07, 07:36 PM

Ross, I am having the same problem here in Hamden. Signal was at 98% yet no picture. Same with WCTX. Jeff
Those are both fine for me in Southington.

Has anyone else had problems with WVIT-DT?? Usually it's rock solid for me, but over the last two days I'm seeing 70-80% with pixellation.....

RTracey

03-28-07, 07:55 PM

Those are both fine for me in Southington.

Has anyone else had problems with WVIT-DT?? Usually it's rock solid for me, but over the last two days I'm seeing 70-80% with pixellation.....

WVIT is fine here. That's weird that you're not having a problem with WTNH/WCTX when both Jeff and I are.

Thanks for the feedback Jeff.

Ross

RTracey

03-28-07, 08:11 PM

I just got off the phone with WTNH/WCTX (again), and they claim there's no problem. Just found WTNH remapped from 8.1 to 10.1 after a re-boot (still no WCTX), so looks like they've got a PSIP problem.

Jeff -you might want to try a re-scan or re-boot, at least for WTNH.

If anyone else is having a problem, please chime in - it always carries more weight with these guys in Engineering if I can say X number of people are having this issue. Sure would be nice if they didn't just immediately assume the viewer was wrong.

Ross

woodsmith

03-28-07, 09:09 PM

Ross, WTNH fine as of 9:00 PM. Still can't get WCTX. Jeff

woodsmith

03-28-07, 09:10 PM

WVIT fine. Jeff

Redux

03-28-07, 09:16 PM

That's weird that you're not having a problem with WTNH/WCTX when both Jeff and I are.I have 3 Hdef receivers, 2 are fine, WTNH & WCTX are out on the 3rd (Tivo series3).

RTracey

03-28-07, 09:55 PM

Thanks guys - this info is reinforcing my conclusion it's a PSIP problem (I'm using an HR10-250).

Jeff - is WTNH mapped correctly on your receiver, or did it turn up somewhere else?

Ross

vmaxed

03-28-07, 10:02 PM

Ross..It was 10.1 on my Samsung 3251D today and it's bacK to 8.1 now. :rolleyes:

Ed

RTracey

03-28-07, 10:53 PM

Thanks Ed. Just before Lost came on, it showed up on 8.1 again, although it's still on 10.1 as well. Still no WCTX. I'll give WTNH a call again in the morning if things are still messed up.

Ross

stumacdo

03-29-07, 12:46 PM

I'm thinking about swapping out my HR10-250 for the new D* HD-DVR at some point this summer. Two quick questions :

1. Has WTNH signed any agreement with D* to provide their HD signal ?
2. Are the OTA inputs on the new D* HD-DVR enabled so I can continue to use my OTA array ?

Thanks in advance.

raoul5788

03-29-07, 01:15 PM

ckramer

03-30-07, 11:47 AM

Those are both fine for me in Southington.

Has anyone else had problems with WVIT-DT?? Usually it's rock solid for me, but over the last two days I'm seeing 70-80% with pixellation.....

WVIT-DT again. I did get a hold of someone there who said they had to reduce power to work on an issue at the towers.....

stumacdo

03-30-07, 03:13 PM

1. Not yet. :(

2, Yes! :D

Thanks for the heads-up. Will make my inevitable switch to the HR20 a little more palatable knowing I can use my OTA to pick up ABC until they sign an agreement with D*.

woodsmith

03-31-07, 06:51 AM

No signal this am from WVIT NBC. Reason? Thanks Jeff

bret4

03-31-07, 08:36 AM

I haven't gotten a picture on WTNH 8.2 in over a week. Used to get the Radar map.

Scott Greczkowski

03-31-07, 08:37 AM

Getting WVIT DT fine here in Newington with a solid 100 signal.

bret4

03-31-07, 08:43 AM

Getting WVIT DT here too.

Redux

03-31-07, 05:40 PM

I haven't gotten a picture on WTNH 8.2 in over a week. Used to get the Radar map.Yeah, my 8.2 is also gone, along with 8.1 which has been out for a few days now on one of my receivers. WCTX at 59.1 was gone but came back.

raoul5788

03-31-07, 05:55 PM

Yeah, my 8.2 is also gone, along with 8.1 which has been out for a few days now on one of my receivers. WCTX at 59.1 was gone but came back.

I have signal on 8.2, but no picture. It sounds like a PSIP issue.

raoul5788

03-31-07, 06:25 PM

My ota WCTX dt is shifted slightly to the right. The same is occurring on my Cox qam picture. Anyone else seeing this?

RTracey

03-31-07, 07:34 PM

Redux

03-31-07, 07:41 PM

I've got both WTNH and WCTX right now, and both look fine. However, both stations had problems earlier last week, and I agree with Chip that it's a PSIP problem. Not all receivers seem to be affected. Anyone who's having a problem could try to talking to Angelo in Engineering on Monday - I doubt the guys on the weekend or evening will do anything for you.

RossWhat is it that needs to be done? Tivo is willing to replace my S3 receiver, since WTNH HD is fine at 8.1 on my DirecTV/Tivo HR10-250, but of course I have lots of stuff on the s3 and would rather not swap it out.

RTracey

03-31-07, 08:21 PM

What is it that needs to be done? Tivo is willing to replace my S3 receiver, since WTNH HD is fine at 8.1 on my DirecTV/Tivo HR10-250, but of course I have lots of stuff on the s3 and would rather not swap it out.

I don't know any more than you do. Of the people that responded to the problem last week, your S3 was having a problem, my HR10-250 also, and Ed's Samsung (don't know if that has a Tivo in it). Jeff said he wasn't getting WCTX, but I don't recall what kind of receiver he has. If you're the only one still having a problem, maybe it is your unit (I'm not familiar with your Tivo, but have you tried re-booting it or doing a channel scan?). Talking to Angelo at WTNH is only going to help if the problem is on their end.

Ross

KML-224

03-31-07, 11:51 PM

I don't know if this means anything, but the Wal-Mart I work at in Newington just started carrying a Magnavox VCR/DVD combo (records on both sides). This model goes for $189.94 and includes a digital tuner. The manual says it can tune (for example) 3-1, 3-2, etc. I nearly bought it tonight, but wondered if it's worth it when it's obvious that anythng in HDTV would be downconverted into a 480p picture. Anyways, it's a nice idea. Does any other retailer have this yet?

P.S. This unit DOES NOT have an HDMI output on it for upconversion. :confused:

raoul5788

04-01-07, 07:43 AM

[QUOTE=KML-224]I don't know if this means anything, but the Wal-Mart I work at in Newington just started carrying a Magnavox VCR/DVD combo (records on both sides). This model goes for $189.94 and includes a digital tuner. The manual says it can tune (for example) 3-1, 3-2, etc. I nearly bought it tonight, but wondered if it's worth it when it's obvious that anythng in HDTV would be downconverted into a 480p picture. Anyways, it's a nice idea. Does any other retailer have this yet?

Hell, I couldn't even find it on the Magnavox website!

KML-224

04-01-07, 10:15 AM

It's not on the Wal-Mart website yet either. Trust me when I say we have it. I priced the display model and we had 5 for sale yesterday afternoon @$189.94 each. Take away the digital tuner and you simply have another ordinary DVD/VCR record-play combo. Yes, the DVD side is a recorder. I looked through the manual and still have one question: When this machine does the digital cable scan, will it show WFSB-DT (CBS) as "3-1" or "89-1" like my Sanyo 26" LCD HDTV does now? :)

raoul5788

04-01-07, 10:17 AM

KML-224

04-01-07, 10:42 AM

raoul5788

04-01-07, 10:56 AM

I don't know if it has a QAM tuner in it. I didn't see any reference to that in the manual. I had the model number written down but stupid me threw that little paper away. I will be working this afternoon and may just buy it anyway and use my existing recorder for dubbing or put it on a second TV on my floor. Trust me when I say we DO have this! :)

I believe you have it, really! If there is no qam tuner, then you can't do a digital cable scan, only an ota scan. WFSB will show as 3-1, even though it is really 33-1.

KML-224

04-01-07, 11:53 AM

If I buy it (which is likely), I'll let you know. It does mention the option for a digital cable scan, so we'll see! :)

KML-224

04-02-07, 01:39 AM

Just to update my comments from Sunday:

The DVD/VCR combo is Magnavox model #ZV450MW8. We sell it for $189.94. It DOES have a modified QAM tuner! Most of what my Sanyo TV gets for the extra channels is the same thing. PBS-HD with the "CPTV" bug still appears as channel "82.3". However, the combo remaps the local TV stations and the subchannels as their over-the-air numbers. Also, still no WCTX-DT, since Comcast doesn't carry that here in New Britain. I'm getting them as such:

WFSB 3.1 (CBS) Hartford
WTNH 8.1 (ABC) New Haven
WTXX 20.1 (CW) Waterbury
WTXX 20.2 (The Tube)
WVIT 30.1 (NBC) New Britain
WVIT 30.2 (NBC Weather Plus)
WTIC 61.1 (FOX) Hartford

The difference here? I can record these digital signals. Of course, they're not gonna be in HD. Also, although the overall signal quality is better than their analog counterparts ("3-1" as opposed to analog 3 over on cable channel 2), the screen image is smaller than its analog counterpart. Yes, I can zoom the picture in, but that would mess everything up when I switch to the digital tuner on the TV remote.

P.S. As of this posting, I have yet to try my antenna on this machine.

KML-224

04-02-07, 11:08 AM

UPDATE: I did an antenna scan with a set of ordinary telescoping rods with this machine. Here's what I got:

WFSB 3.1 (CBS) Hartford so-so signal with minimal breakup
WFSB 3.2 "CBS 3" for Springfield, MA
WFSB 3.3 Eyewitness News Now
WTNH 8.1 (ABC) New Haven
WTNH 8.2 blank screen?
WUVN 18.1 (UNI) Hartford weak signal with breakup
WUVN 18.1 Telefutura
WTXX 20.1 (CW) Waterbury
WTXX 20.2 The Tube
WHPX 26.1 (ION) New London so-so signal with minimal breakup
WHPX 26.2 Worship TV
WHPX 26.3 ION West Coast
WHPX 26.4 Faith TV
WVIT 30.1 (NBC) New Britain
WVIT 30.2 NBC Weather Plus
WTIC 61.1 (FOX) Hartford
WPXQ 69.1 (ION) Block Island, RI
WPXQ 69.2 Worship TV
WPXQ 69.3 ION West Coast
WPXQ 69.4 Faith TV

I noticed that WCTX-DT (MY) channel 39 ("59-1") of New Haven didn't pick up at all. Normally, I get some signal of them here as I've seen primtetime MY programming in HD here the week they started up.

Also, they were locked up in back and I couldn't get to them, but we got in the DVD recorder/player version of this machine last night (with no VCR). Those will go for about $150.

raoul5788

04-02-07, 11:39 AM

KML-224

04-02-07, 11:50 AM

WCTX-DT (MY) may not be as strong, but I've always picked up enough of a signal from them here in New Britain's south end before. As for WTNH-DT 8.2, the carrier (or whatever you call it) is there because the tuner stopped at 8.2 (where their radar normally would be).

raoul5788

04-02-07, 01:37 PM

TimSH

04-02-07, 03:02 PM

Just to update my comments from Sunday:

Also, although the overall signal quality is better than their analog counterparts ("3-1" as opposed to analog 3 over on cable channel 2), the screen image is smaller than its analog counterpart. Yes, I can zoom the picture in, but that would mess everything up when I switch to the digital tuner on the TV remote.

Maybe you could clarify this for me... I stopped at the local store today and also called the Magnavox help(less) desk (using the # on the display machine). According to the manual, it doesn't record 16:9. Only 4:3. The help(less) desk said it will record "whatever is on the screen". Obviously not understanding what I was saying.

Here's the deal: I have a 16:9 TV. If I record, lets say, CSI from the local digital broadcast, will it record the 16:9 broadcast as 4:3 letterbox, 4:3 Pan & Scan, or will it record the full width 16:9 program (obviously, this would play back incorrectly on a 4:3 TV)? VCR & DVD recording may be different, but what does it actually do? The statement that "the screen image is smaller" implies it might letterbox it... or P&S...

raoul5788

04-02-07, 03:58 PM

Maybe you could clarify this for me... I stopped at the local store today and also called the Magnavox help(less) desk (using the # on the display machine). According to the manual, it doesn't record 16:9. Only 4:3. The help(less) desk said it will record "whatever is on the screen". Obviously not understanding what I was saying.

Here's the deal: I have a 16:9 TV. If I record, lets say, CSI from the local digital broadcast, will it record the 16:9 broadcast as 4:3 letterbox, 4:3 Pan & Scan, or will it record the full width 16:9 program (obviously, this would play back incorrectly on a 4:3 TV)? VCR & DVD recording may be different, but what does it actually do? The statement that "the screen image is smaller" implies it might letterbox it... or P&S...

I'm not sure about this particular machine, but generally speaking, it should record in the same aspect ratio it is broadcast in. In the case of an hd signal, it SHOULD show in widescreen, although in 480i, not hd.

TimSH

04-02-07, 04:16 PM

I'm not sure about this particular machine, but generally speaking, it should record in the same aspect ratio it is broadcast in. In the case of an hd signal, it SHOULD show in widescreen, although in 480i, not hd.

Logically, I would think so... except for the note in the manual that says it will only record in 4:3. Unfortunately, that's not very informative and is contradicted by their own help desk.

I'm hoping someone may have access to one to test.

RTracey

04-02-07, 09:54 PM

Here we go again - anyone having any problem with WTIC (Fox) right now? Thanks.

Ross

KML-224

04-02-07, 11:18 PM

You can record that show from channel 3.1 (CBS) in New Britain on Comcast. To me, it looks best when it's played back as a pan-scan 4:3 picture. It records the same way, regardless of your personal setting. It'll play back as either 4:3 pan-scan, 4:3 letterbox or as 16:9 wide, which is really shown as a giant rectangle in the middle of the 16:9 screen. Again, I've gotta try a test recording from a known HD show to know for sure. The playback quality is no worse than recording from a 3-digit channel with digital cable.

keldarironfist

04-03-07, 12:47 AM

i just got the db4 antenna im in west hartford ct,i have it hooked up to a samsung 260f external tuner which is supposed to be a good tuner...anyway im rather unimpressed with the results i get more stuff through QAM. i have a buddy out west who gets crazy channels even stuff from japan just using freakin bunny ears and a loop but maybe thats beause of his location. i got fox,nbc and abc,and cbs,a few spanish channels and like pbs i think,thats not exactly stellar. a total of eleven when said and done.

TimSH

04-03-07, 06:47 AM

KML-224

04-03-07, 04:30 PM

Sorry for all the confusion! The setting on the recorder also affects the way the picture plays back on the DVD. It also depends on whether the show being recorded is in HD or not. If I have the machine's setting on 16:9 widescreen and the show is HD, the screen stays full but the picture is just OK. I will try to post a screen cap or two at a later time, if my DVD player program on the computer lets me. When I did a test recording from "The Tonight Show With Jay Leno" in HD on "30.1" with the 4:3 pan-scan mode, I could only see the "D" in the "NBC HD" peacock logo (left of that getting chopped off with the black pillarboxing). On 4:3 letterbox, the TV places the black pillarboxing on either side of the picture. As for what I'm seeing in the 4:3 image, that has minor letterboxing on the top and bottom.

As for input signal, it doesn't matter much if it's coming from antenna or the cable QAM tuner. The results are dependent on 1-HD or regular 4:3 and 2-Which of the three setting I choose (16:9 widescreen, 4:3 letter box or 4:3 pan-scan).

TimSH

04-03-07, 04:52 PM

Thanks! It sounds like it does actually record the 16:9 signal when you have it set to 16:9 TV, although it probably uses the same resolution it would for a 4:3 recording. That would explain the loss of picture quality.

I think I'm going to try to pick one up today after work. That should suit my needs just fine. Especially since I've got a relatively small (27") widescreen set. Recording so that I can see the entire wide aspect image without windowboxing should work OK.

RTracey

04-03-07, 05:17 PM

An update on WTNH/WCTX - spoke with Angelo in Engineering today. He confirmed they received some new equipment and did have a problem with the PSIP for both stations last week. WTNH is not currently broadcasting on any of the other sub-channels, e.g., the weather on 8.2. I told Angelo I thought they still had a PSIP problem, given they are showing up on my guide on both 8.1/8.2 and 10.1/10.2, which he wasn't aware of - said he would look into it.

Ross

KML-224

04-03-07, 08:25 PM

These are two captures I took from my DVD, recorded from PBS-HD (82.1). The recorder was set to 4:3 Pan-Scan at the time because I noticed the tiny "CPTV" bug in the top left is gone. (Also, I put this together from my older computer, since the InterVideo program on that machine allows for image captures without changing their shape.) :o

TimSH

04-03-07, 09:30 PM

Thank you! Didn't have time to get out to the store tonight.

If there's any way you could post a capture of something recorded at 16:9, I'd greatly appreciate it.

And another question while I'm at it... what are the results when recording to VHS? Size wise, I mean... especially for 16:9 programming.

KML-224

04-03-07, 10:52 PM

Maybe these will be a little better? They were recorded onto a DVD+RW disc. They were recorded in "4:3 Pan-Scan" mode. Therefore, the sides and the top-left "CPTV" bug on PBS-HD (QAM channel 82) can't bee seen. As for a VCR recording, the quality might get worse, since I'd have to transfer that to DVD first, then save the images, etc. :confused:

On a semi-related subject, the DVD+RW used is an Imation brand disc with 4X write speed capability, 4.7 GB and 2 hour mode. I usually record in a 4-hour mode. Maybe I can make a test recording in the highest-quality mode later with Jay Leno or PBS-HD since they're both in HD?

TheMarq

04-05-07, 09:03 AM

Does anyone know if WFSB will have any HD Masters coverage on 3.2 on Thursday and Friday?

rpearlberg

04-05-07, 01:58 PM

I live in Hamden, 06518, and just got a Samsung 40" LCD, what do you suggest i do to get OTA HD channels, I'm in an apartment, so can't really do any outdoor mounting...
Thanks!!

raoul5788

04-05-07, 02:27 PM

I live in Hamden, 06518, and just got a Samsung 40" LCD, what do you suggest i do to get OTA HD channels, I'm in an apartment, so can't really do any outdoor mounting...
Thanks!!

The Zenith Silver Sensor is probably the best indoor antenna. It's UHF, but you should be able to get WTNH dt and WCTX dt with no problem, since they are so close.

rpearlberg

04-05-07, 02:39 PM

The Zenith Silver Sensor is probably the best indoor antenna. It's UHF, but you should be able to get WTNH dt and WCTX dt with no problem, since they are so close.

I'm pretty sure that is what I have now, maybe I just need to do some moving around and position it better. I seem to get ABC and myTV9 most of the time. I was hoping to get CBS and FOX...

ckramer

04-05-07, 03:48 PM

You might want to try this Philips version of the Silver Sensor. I found it at my local Wally World, and it works great for me in Southington. You can always return it easily enough if it doesn't work for you....

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3904686

CHDinCT

04-06-07, 10:23 AM

Does anyone know if WFSB will have any HD Masters coverage on 3.2 on Thursday and Friday?

HD coverage of The Masters is being carried on Universal HD on Thursday and Friday. Hopefully, your carrier offers that channel. Watched it yesterday on Direct TV, and plan to again tonight.

ad301

04-06-07, 11:19 AM

WFSB is also carrying it on their digital channel. I can't say for sure about OTA, but it was on Comcast ch 233 yesterday.

RTracey

04-06-07, 03:04 PM

CHDinCT

04-06-07, 03:53 PM

OK guys, I need a little help here. All this week I've been having real difficulty pulling in WCTX and WTIC when normally they come in fine (still getting WVIT and WTNH without any problem). I'm starting to think the problem is on my end since I haven't seen anyone else mention any difficulties. Before I start pulling my system apart/climbing up on my roof, has anyone else been experiencing this? Thanks.

Ross

Ross,

As you can see, I'm in Killingworth and haven't had issues with WTIC this week - watched 24 on Monday, AI and House on Tuesday and AI on Wed. WCTX is another issue. I don't get that very often and didn't even try for it this week.

Edit: Well, I guess you can't see I'm in Killingworth since it's not in my signature on this board - was confused with another forum.

RTracey

04-06-07, 04:18 PM

Edit: Well, I guess you can't see I'm in Killingworth since it's not in my signature on this board - was confused with another forum.

South Central CT - Killingworth; same thing, right? ;-)

Thanks!

Ross

raoul5788

04-06-07, 07:06 PM

OK guys, I need a little help here. All this week I've been having real difficulty pulling in WCTX and WTIC when normally they come in fine (still getting WVIT and WTNH without any problem). I'm starting to think the problem is on my end since I haven't seen anyone else mention any difficulties. Before I start pulling my system apart/climbing up on my roof, has anyone else been experiencing this? Thanks.

Ross

My reception on them has been okay, WCTX dt is occasionally fussy. It makes no sense since they are on the same tower as WTNH dt. I guess their signals aren't the same strength.

RTracey

04-06-07, 09:59 PM

Thanks Chip - WCTX seems to be back now, but still no FOX - this is driving me nuts!

Ross

KML-224

04-06-07, 10:17 PM

Remember that WTNH-DT is on a VHF channel. Do you have a VHF antenna in use?

raoul5788

04-06-07, 11:22 PM

Remember that WTNH-DT is on a VHF channel. Do you have a VHF antenna in use?

Since you didn't quote anyone, I'm not sure who you are asking, but I use a Channel Master 4228. It's a uhf antenna, but it does the high vhf channels quite well. I have no problem picking up WTXX dt, which is channel 12, and WTNH dt, which is channel 10. In fact, I have my antenna pointed away from WTNH, and I get it at full strength.

KML-224

04-07-07, 12:08 AM

OK. I'm in New Britain's south end. I get the weirdest thing if an ordinary pair of VHF telescoping rods are attched to my Magnavox DVD/VCR recorder/Player combo. This is when I'm tuning the DIGITAL tuner built into the unit:

With the antenna's twin lead attached to a pass-through (connects two coax cable ends together to make an extention) and that extra 3-foot coax attached to the antenna input on the combo, it must've resulted in a slight signal improvement...WFSB-DT (CBS) has a slight bit more stability to it. Also, I actually get WUVN-DT (UNI) with only minimal breakup. Significant because Walnut Hill almost completely blocks my house's line-of-sight with Avon Mountain (both to the NNW). Maybe the second cable I attached is less likely to have signal leakage? Who knows?

woodsmith

04-07-07, 06:23 AM

Ross, MY TV 9 and FOX both OK all week here in Hamden. Jeff

RTracey

04-07-07, 07:27 PM

Ross, MY TV 9 and FOX both OK all week here in Hamden. Jeff

Thanks Jeff!

Just to give everyone a laugh at my expense, I found the problem - the coax connector for the UHF antenna at the preamp was full of water. Had this setup for over 2 years now and never would have guessed, given the connectors are under the preamp and have full rubber boots over them. Oh well, live and learn.... :rolleyes:

Ross

ckramer

04-16-07, 04:47 PM

Any news on an ETA for WEDH-DT??

mdodge

04-16-07, 06:48 PM

Any news on an ETA for WEDH-DT??

Not a word.

rpearlberg

04-19-07, 11:33 AM

I just ordered the Hisense OTA box....now i think i need to get an antenna....I live in an apartment in Hamden....any suggestions on a good indoor amplified antenna that i could use....does anyone know if I actually need an antenna for this....i just had the Samsung H260F Tuner hooked up WITHOUT an antenna and got all the local HD channels OTA....would the Hisense box do the same or will I need an antenna....
Thanks.

ad301

04-19-07, 11:57 AM

RTracey

04-19-07, 04:08 PM

Awhile back, I see there was discusiion of WTNH-DT not coming in for some. I just reconfigured two TiVo Series3s for OTA as well as cable, and although both tell me they are tuning 8.1 and 8.2 at 99 signal strength, I'm not receiving programs on either channel. Ch 59.1 WCTXDT comes in fine, and it's signal strength is shown as around 75.

Anyone have any ideas?

A couple of weeks ago, WTNH/WCTX was having PSIP and other issues. From my perspective, using a D* HR10-250 TiVo, the problem has been resolved - but for a while, WTNH was showing up on 10.1 and 10.2, then both 8.1/10.1 and 8.2/10.2. I guess what I'm suggesting is you might want to check 10.1 and 10.2 on your TiVos.

Just had my wife check - WTNH is currently showing up on 8.1, 8.2 and 10.3

Ross

RTracey

04-19-07, 04:11 PM

ad301

04-19-07, 04:15 PM

Ross, thanks for checking that. I guess I'll have to delve into this a little further.

sp1dey

04-20-07, 12:21 PM

Anyone have 1:1 pixel mapping on their displays? If so, I'm curious if anyone sees a line of white pixels on the left on WVIT during national feeds. It happens without fail for me during all HD broadcasts. It's only the national feeds, because in the morning during the Today show, it dissapears when they cut for local news coverage. Even during letterboxed SD commercials during national broadcasts it appears on the far left.

This isn't normal screen flicker or noise on the very top one might see with 0 overscan/underscan. It only happens on channel 30.

vssman

04-20-07, 12:42 PM

WVIT-DT looks fine on mine.

Redux

04-21-07, 05:53 PM

Awhile back, I see there was discusiion of WTNH-DT not coming in for some. I just reconfigured two TiVo Series3s for OTA as well as cable, and although both tell me they are tuning 8.1 and 8.2 at 99 signal strength, I'm not receiving programs on either channel. Ch 59.1 WCTXDT comes in fine, and it's signal strength is shown as around 75.

Anyone have any ideas?I lost OTA 8.1 on my s3 a few weeks ago and it has not come back. Signal strength, like yours, shows 99%. Call Tivo and reference case#6466381. Maybe with two of us they'll be willing to give WTNH a call and try to get it worked out.

ad301

04-21-07, 06:41 PM

Interesting, Redux......

Redux

04-23-07, 12:25 AM

Interesting, Redux......I'm trying to make a decision now, VERY close call: hack the s3 or get rid of it. The resolution of the channel 8.1 issue may be just enough to be a deal maker/breaker. If you're going to call Tivo, do it Monday or early Tuesday. I'm going to call back later Tuesday and if nothing is happening the s3 is a dead issue for me.

brewer4

04-23-07, 09:07 AM

I lost OTA 8.1 on my s3 a few weeks ago and it has not come back. Signal strength, like yours, shows 99%. Call Tivo and reference case#6466381. Maybe with two of us they'll be willing to give WTNH a call and try to get it worked out.

Gotta be something with PSIP information and WTNH. The channel works on my D* boxes but doesn't work on my Windows Media Center. When I analyze the channels via the FusionHD channel changer, its listed as 10-1 the digital allocation. It does not read the WTNH as 8-1. So it wont tune to the channel when selected.

RTracey

04-23-07, 02:30 PM

Maybe it is a TiVo issue, but has anyone tried to call Angelo in WTNH Engineering and see if he has anything to offer? He did tell me they had installed new equipment several weeks ago and realized there were some issues getting the bugs worked out. I still think they have a PSIP issue given that they show up on both ch 8.1/8.2 and 10.3/10.4 on my HR10-250.

Ross

KML-224

04-24-07, 10:13 AM

This was also posted in the Hartford/Comcast thread. I will do a separate antenna scan later that's related to this issue:

I'm A Comcast customer in New Britain. I have a 26" Sanyo LCD HDTV and a Magnavox DVD/VCR recorder combo. Both have a QAM tuner included. Here's what I can't figure out...I did a rescan for the available channels last night. My TV still showed WFSB-DT on channel 89-1 as usual. However, my DVD/VCR combo did not. The recorder showed the scan as "8-1", "20-1", "20-2", "24-1", "30-1", "30-2" and "61-1". Both machines and their tuners always matched up before. Why is it different now?

OK. Just did a scan on the DVD/VCR combo with an antenna. I'm getting "3-1", "3-2" (CBS 3 Springfield) and "3-3" (Eyewitness News Now). Also, I'm getting channel 8's weather radar on "59-2" with nothing for "8-2" showing up. A digital cable rescan on the TV's QAM tuner still showed 89-1, a.k.a. "3-1" as usual.

CHDinCT

04-24-07, 11:03 AM

OK. Just did a scan on the DVD/VCR combo with an antenna. I'm getting "3-1", "3-2" (CBS 3 Springfield) and "3-3" (Eyewitness News Now). Also, I'm getting channel 8's weather radar on "59-2" with nothing for "8-2" showing up. A digital cable rescan on the TV's QAM tuner still showed 89-1, a.k.a. "3-1" as usual.

For what it's worth, I have a DirecTV HR20 DVR and haven't had channel 8-2 for weeks now. Unfortunately, this receiver does not allow manual tuning for OTA channels so I can't try 10-2 or 59-2. It will only tune to OTA channels that D* has programmed for a given zip code. WTNHs radar loop was one of the few sub-channels I actually found useful on occasion.

raoul5788

04-24-07, 11:54 AM

Is seems that WTNH has moved their radar to 59-2 even though there is a signal on 8-2 that doesn't display.

KML-224

04-24-07, 12:51 PM

My scan came up with nothing for "8-2" on the antenna.

Robert Zbuska

04-26-07, 11:22 PM

Group:
I wanted to share this reply from WTNH-DT on our recent reception problems:

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:55 PM
To: Judi Mickmac
Subject: Viewer Feedback: Engineering: WTNH-DT Problems

To: Angelo (or others) in Engineering:
Many of us are unable to receive 8-1 and/or 8-2 on equipment, such as
Windows MCE and TIVO, that had been receiving these channels in the
past. Signal strength is not a problem, and in my case my Dish 6000
continues to receive 8-1 but has lost 8-2; while my Windows MCE
attached
to the same antenna shows "No TV Signal" on both, even though it has
all
green bars as signal. Multiple similar reports are on the AVS forum
for
our area. PSIP problems and/or encoding are the leading suspects. Can
you shed any light on this? Thanks from all of us.

From :Judi Mickmac
I checked with my engineering supervisor to get the answers to your
inquires and here is what he asked me to relay to you...

We have installed new HD equipment and are still in the process of
programming the PSIP. We have our HD signal on 8-1. The reception issue
on 8-1 should be receivable to those few who now don't receive us
within
a week. Please keep us informed if you continue to have issues. You
will
not be able to receive 8-2 over the air because this signal is
scrambled. The Doppler radar signal can now be received on air on 59-2
as well as MyNetwork HD on 59-1.

Thanks for watching...

Judi Mickmac
WTNH/WCTX
203-784-8875

Redux

04-27-07, 01:26 AM

We have installed new HD equipment and are still in the process of
programming the PSIP. We have our HD signal on 8-1. The reception issue
on 8-1 should be receivable to those few who now don't receive us
within
a week. Please keep us informed if you continue to have issues.

Judi Mickmac
WTNH/WCTX
203-784-8875[/B]Assuming 8.1 comes back, does anyone know how we can convey our appreciation to her employer for the information provided by Judi Mickmac in a way that might do her some good?

There is a lack of understanding in so many corporations that all we as customers need to hear is (when there _is_ a genuine problem, particularly an obscure one) "we are aware of the problem; we're working on it; and we expect results in XXX timeframe."

Silence, lack of response, patronizing, lying, all these are profit-detrimental approaches.

Thanks

ad301

04-27-07, 07:55 AM

Group:
I wanted to share this reply from WTNH-DT on our recent reception problems:....Thank you for that very informative post. I'll report here when I am able to receive 8-1 again on my TiVo S3s.

brewer4

04-27-07, 08:26 AM

WTNH-HD is still a NO go on Windows Media Center. I will check back next week. Good thing I dont rely on this one. I would be fuming. I would have missed Lost this week among a dozen other shows.

vmaxed

04-29-07, 01:23 PM

Is any one having trouble with PBS/Springfield, MA Channel 57-1/57-5 this week ?

Ed... :confused:

WHNB

04-29-07, 01:55 PM

57-1 hasn't come in for me here in East Windsor for the past several weeks. I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna and Samsung H260F external receiver. This is the only area digital channel that gives the "Weak or No Signal" message on the screen.

Earlier this week, I asked on the Springfield OTA AVS Forum if other viewers were having reception problems with WGBY-DT. A viewer from south of Hartford, who also has the same model Samsung receiver that I have, posted that he was getting these channels without problems with a signal strength of 4 on a scale of 10. A forum member from Chicopee, MA also reported no problems.

100/40

04-29-07, 07:09 PM

Same guy from south of Hartford here. At 7:05 PM have 57-1 and 2 with no problems. Five out of ten today. Must be going over you guys.
Actually this seems somewhat strange.

raoul5788

04-30-07, 03:58 PM

Here is an article in the Hartford Business Journal about WVIT's transition to their new facilities. Don't get excited, they aren't built yet! http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/news1413.html

Robert Whitehead

05-01-07, 11:13 AM

I am in West Hartford. Can anyone give me the name of an OTA installer in my area? Thanks.

vmaxed

05-01-07, 07:38 PM

Orbitech...on Rt. 10 in Plainville 860-747-4868 or 1-888-765-8887

Ed.. ;)

rpearlberg

05-01-07, 10:04 PM

I just hooked up my tuner and I don't think I'm getting the same channels as I was a few weeks ago with a tuner...
My channels were in the 80-? and 90's but now it seems they are 3-1, 8-1, 20-1, etc...and no YES in HD, i can't find CBS either....did they move them or am I doing something wrong? I'm in Hamden.

woodsmith

05-02-07, 09:38 AM

Has anyone had a proble with 59.1? MY TV 9 ? 59.2 come in yet no 59.1. It seem to start last night. Jeff

vmaxed

05-02-07, 09:39 AM

Is any one having trouble with PBS/Springfield, MA Channel 57-1/57-5 this week ?

Ed... :confused:

Today all five WGBY Channels are back at the same reception they were... :rolleyes:

Ed.. :)

vmaxed

05-02-07, 09:51 AM

Has anyone had a proble with 59.1? MY TV 9 ? 59.2 come in yet no 59.1. It seem to start last night. Jeff

Jeff..I'm not receiving 59.1/59.2 and 8.1-8.3 today on my Dish receivers but they come in fine on my Samsung TV receiver. :confused:

Ed... :eek:

ad301

05-02-07, 10:25 AM

Has anyone had a proble with 59.1? MY TV 9 ? 59.2 come in yet no 59.1. It seem to start last night. JeffJeff, I'm seeing the same thing on my TiVo S3s. 59.1 and 59.2 are both showing signal lock, but no program lock. 8.1 is still the same way, as mentioned above.

woodsmith

05-02-07, 12:05 PM

I also get a 76% signal from Sony KDL 40V2500 tuner on 59.1 yet no picture and it states " No Signal". Yet on the 59.2 - their weather station - it is fine. My 8.1 is and has been fine. Jeff

RTracey

05-02-07, 05:23 PM

Jeff - I'm not receiving WCTX either. Just got off the phone with Angelo at WTNH Engineering - their PSIP generator for 59.1 bit the dust and they're trying to program another one. He said he hoped to get it back up today, but it was just as likely it won't be back up until tomorrow.

Ross

Mooecow

05-02-07, 06:24 PM

ad301

05-02-07, 06:31 PM

RTracey

05-02-07, 07:44 PM

I think in finally going to make the jump to HD :) . I live in Southington around the High School, anyone from around here know how good of a signal I'm going to be getting? Most likely I will have an inside antenna stuck up in my attic. I really don't want to get a TV and realize I'll have to use Cox :/ .

Thanks :)

Assuming no major obstructions between you and Hartford or New Haven (hills, significant tree cover), you should have no problem getting all the majors from where you live. You might get by with just a CM4228 (maybe no preamp), although you may need a rotor given the two transmitter farms are pretty much in opposite directions. Hopefully someone who lives in your area will respond with more specifics, but if not, that's where I would start.

Keep in mind that if attic placement works for you, great, but it's usually suboptimal/asking for reception problems.

Ross

RTracey

05-02-07, 07:50 PM

Did the subject of WTNH-DT come up? 8.1 remains down, for me anyway.

Nope - didn't ask. No reason though why you couldn't call Angelo and ask him.

Ross

Redux

05-03-07, 07:10 AM

I think in finally going to make the jump to HD :) . I live in Southington around the High School, anyone from around here know how good of a signal I'm going to be getting? Most likely I will have an inside antenna stuck up in my attic.I'm south of you, maybe 6-7 miles. The 4228 will probably get you everything to the north, even in the attic, including maybe WGGB. WTNH will probably blast in, even though it's VHF and off-direction. But WTXX (20.1 [actually 12] CW) and WCTX (59.1 [actually 39] MY9) may take some work. I need a small bowtie pointed to the west and a join-tenna for dependable WCTX. WTXX is somewhat marginal for me, more in terms of multipath than strength.

Terrain & trees are huge variables of course. You may also notice significant differences with variations of placement withijn the attic.

Redux

05-03-07, 07:12 AM

vmaxed

05-03-07, 08:14 AM

8.1 and 59.1 are back today on my Dish OTA receiver.

Ed.. :D

dschribs

05-03-07, 01:30 PM

I have a Dish (non DVR receiver). When I originally scanned for my local channels, I got excellent reception from all the locals I am interested in watching; WVIT, WFSB, FOX, and WTNH. The past few weeks, I have had trouble securing a signal on WTNH. When it is there, there is a lot of pixelation (sp?) and then the signal is lost and the "acquiring signal" screen comes up. I have been reading some posts here about people having problems with WTNH, bbut, it seems like there is either is a picture or there is not - mine is there - but the signal is weak and comes and goes. Could this be related to changes made by WTNH lately? Should I reboot the dish receiver and simply try scan for my local stations again? All my other locals come in at close to 100%. Even when WTNH is at around 84 the signal fades in and out...

antennamonkey

05-03-07, 02:53 PM

59.1 is back. 8.1 is still gone for some of us.
Has anyone called TiVo about this problem with WTNH. I had a customer that was not getting it OTA and Tivo sent out a new unit that works perfectly. My guess is the older firmware doesnt like the scrambled 8-2

ad301

05-03-07, 06:54 PM

Has anyone called TiVo about this problem with WTNH. I had a customer that was not getting it OTA and Tivo sent out a new unit that works perfectly. My guess is the older firmware doesnt like the scrambled 8-2So you're saying that 8-1 is being properly received, today, on a TiVo Series3 box? I'm still not able to receive it, although 59-1 came back on after being off yesterday.

RTracey

05-03-07, 09:49 PM

ckramer

05-04-07, 08:32 AM

brewer4

05-04-07, 09:51 AM

So you're saying that 8-1 is being properly received, today, on a TiVo Series3 box? I'm still not able to receive it, although 59-1 came back on after being off yesterday.

I saw the same thing on my Vista Media Center. 8-1 works on my D* Tivo HR10-250 and D* HR20, but does not on the Media Center. 59-1 disappeared for a bit but is back. Man, I am glad I only use the Media Center to experiment (and kids shows). You know how many shows we would be missing if we relied on it. I really think WTNH has a PSIP issue.

ad301

05-04-07, 10:31 AM

I really think WTNH has a PSIP issue.The message above

(From :Judi Mickmac
I checked with my engineering supervisor to get the answers to your
inquires and here is what he asked me to relay to you...

We have installed new HD equipment and are still in the process of
programming the PSIP. We have our HD signal on 8-1. The reception issue
on 8-1 should be receivable to those few who now don't receive us
within
a week. Please keep us informed if you continue to have issues. You
will
not be able to receive 8-2 over the air because this signal is
scrambled. The Doppler radar signal can now be received on air on 59-2
as well as MyNetwork HD on 59-1.

Thanks for watching...

Judi Mickmac
WTNH/WCTX
203-784-8875)

seemed to confirm that they were having issues. It is over a week now, and I did call two different numbers at the station yesterday. I got through only to voice mail, and my two messages have gone unanswered. That's no big deal, I'm sure they have better things to do than respond to me, but as of now, the problem remains. WTNH-DT is unviewable for me OTA.

ad301

05-04-07, 01:46 PM

I just had a nice chat with Ms. Mickmac at the station (very nice of her to return my call), and she tells me that after talking to her engineering department, they feel that there is no problem on their end, they are putting out a strong clear signal, and that if there were problems, they'd be hearing about it from all over the state. So, they are of the opinion that the problem is a TiVo issue.

Redux

05-04-07, 04:15 PM

they are of the opinion that the problem is a TiVo issue.I get the impression from WTNH that they _are_ interested, and engaged in working on the issue.

Problem is, it's going to turn out, I'm sure, to be some subtle interaction where everybody's within specs but just on the border in some specific respect and the interface isn't clicking in certain very limited customer situations. WTNH's total universe of Tivo series3 and Windows Media Center users is probably less than 1/10 of 1%.

Patience may be required here, though a polite brief call or email wouldn't hurt.

If you do call or write, there are other types of reception issues. Weak signal, intermittent, user errors, etc. We are talking about a very specific mapping issue affecting only a small number of users, where both 8.1 and 59.1 disappeared a few weeks ago after having been fine. 59.1 came back within several hours but for a very few number of users (limited to Tivo s3's and Windows Media Center as far as I can tell), 8.1 has not come back.

brewer4

05-04-07, 08:02 PM

I saw the same thing on my Vista Media Center. 8-1 works on my D* Tivo HR10-250 and D* HR20, but does not on the Media Center. 59-1 disappeared for a bit but is back. Man, I am glad I only use the Media Center to experiment (and kids shows). You know how many shows we would be missing if we relied on it. I really think WTNH has a PSIP issue.

Just to let folks know my signal strength is solid around 85% with peaks upto 90% and no lower then 80%. I have a separate VHF antenna pointed specifically at WTNH's tower. I have a separate UHF antenna that points towards Hartford. No breakups whatsoever with 8-1 on the HR10-250 or HR20.

bret4

05-05-07, 02:22 PM

Any updates on when channel 61 is going to have their antenna up and running? Like to get that channel here in Brookfield.

r_pan

05-06-07, 04:58 PM

Any updates on when channel 61 is going to have their antenna up and running? Like to get that channel here in Brookfield.

I use an indoor powered antenna, and set it on a VCR (put VCR in vertical sitting, like PS3), I can get WTIC 60.1 since the middle of March in Oxford. I thought that would be new antenna took place?

bret4

05-06-07, 07:47 PM

I use an indoor powered antenna, and set it on a VCR (put VCR in vertical sitting, like PS3), I can get WTIC 60.1 since the middle of March in Oxford. I thought that would be new antenna took place?

I don't think they have the new antenna up on the tower yet. I get a signal that is only in and out at about 25% at the most, then down to nothing. Hasn't changed here so I am guessing it is still on the old antenna. If that is with the new antenna then they shouldn't have wasted the money on it.

You must be on a big hill to get that good of a signal from Oxford! Also I'm guessing that you ment to say WTIC 61.1? Not 60.1.

jzareski

05-06-07, 11:20 PM

I don't think they have the new antenna up on the tower yet. I get a signal that is only in and out at about 25% at the most, then down to nothing. Hasn't changed here so I am guessing it is still on the old antenna. If that is with the new antenna then they shouldn't have wasted the money on it.

You must be on a big hill to get that good of a signal from Oxford! Also I'm guessing that you ment to say WTIC 61.1? Not 60.1.

The original WTIC Ch 61 analog antenna is back operating atop the tower.

The WTIC DT-31 digital antenna is still operating side mounted on the tower.

The WTXX DT-12 digital antenna is still operating side mount antenna on the tower.

The tower crew has removed the rigging. Date for new 31 antenna atop tower not announced.

The tower's upper most strobe flasher is mounted on top the pylon carrying the new WEDH 24 analog / 45 digital antennas.

stumacdo

05-07-07, 08:34 AM

Don't know if anyone's interested but over the weekend I retired my 2-year old CM4228 and Winegard VHF antenna's. I'm re-siding my house and had to take them down. Now that they're down and my wife is admiring the house without my antenna array, I don't think they're going back up :(

Anyhow, if anyone is interested in picking up a 2-year old CM4228 and also a Winegard VHF only antenna, PM me and let me know. I live in Wallingford, so if you're in the surrounding area we can probably work something out. I've also got a Winegard pre-amp hooked up to the CM4228 and it's still attached to the mounting bracket, so you'd have everything you need for OTA. Here in Wallingford, the CM4228 worked great and picked up 3,8,30,61 all reliably. I was using the VHF antenna mostly for Channel 20. I'll give you all the equipment I had (antennas, preamps, mounting brackets, hardware, etc). Would always prefer that the equipment goes to somebody on the forum who would put it to good use. Thanks. -Stu-

Edit : I probably should have been clear on the original post since 2 users have already responded. I'm looking to recoup some of the money I paid for all this equipment (pre-amp alone was like $60). I'm looking for $50 for everything (CM4228, Winegard VHF antenna, Winegard CM4228 pre-amp, mounting pole and whatever other hardware I took off when I dismantled it - i.e. brackets, screws, etc, etc,). Sorry if I misled anyone - figure better to sell to a local member of the forum than throw it up on eBay.

KML-224

05-07-07, 09:19 AM

The original WTIC Ch 61 analog antenna is back operating atop the tower.

The WTIC DT-31 digital antenna is still operating side mounted on the tower.

The WTXX DT-12 digital antenna is still operating side mount antenna on the tower.

The tower crew has removed the rigging. Date for new 31 antenna atop tower not announced.

The tower's upper most strobe flasher is mounted on top the pylon carrying the new WEDH 24 analog / 45 digital antennas.

I see the analog channel 24 transmitter isn't operational yet. I'm still getting the same S---TY unwatchable picture here in New Britain's south end. :(

Redux

05-07-07, 03:07 PM

59.1 is gone again now on the Tivo s3 receiver, still there on the others, oops, no gone everywhere now. On the Tivo s3 I see a new mapped entry for WCTX at 2.1 but with no guide or programming.

WTNH at 8.1 is gone now ALSO on other recievers in addition to the s3. And it has popped up at 10.3 again but NOT on the s3, which is where this happened before!

There is no consistent data to analyze here, it is all random. But clearly we are beyond effects simply on Tivo s3s and Windows Media Center, which had seemed to be the case.

I guess we are all involved in what is really just an experiment with this newfangled digital TV.

BTW you may run into Dr. Mel in strange places.

bret4

05-07-07, 04:31 PM

The original WTIC Ch 61 analog antenna is back operating atop the tower.

The WTIC DT-31 digital antenna is still operating side mounted on the tower.

The WTXX DT-12 digital antenna is still operating side mount antenna on the tower.

The tower crew has removed the rigging. Date for new 31 antenna atop tower not announced.

The tower's upper most strobe flasher is mounted on top the pylon carrying the new WEDH 24 analog / 45 digital antennas.

Does that mean that they are not putting a new Digital antenna up for channel 61? If not then I guess I'll never get that channel. I get the analog channel but can't view it on my Directv HR20 with the over the air antenna. Can only view Digital channels with the HR20.

mdodge

05-07-07, 05:56 PM

I see the analog channel 24 transmitter isn't operational yet. I'm still getting the same S---TY unwatchable picture here in New Britain's south end. :(

Well, we've hit a bit of a snag.

The installation of the transmitter, transmission line and antenna is complete. We, actually, had the transmitter running into the antenna last week.

The manufacturer is doing the "Proof of Performance now but needs to tweak the transmitter a bit. It's a matter of days now 'till we do "Program Test". You'll hear it first here.

Stay tuned.

(BTW: Still no word yet on WEDH-DT/45 from the FCC)

KML-224

05-07-07, 09:31 PM

Thanks for the update! :)

Redux

05-08-07, 03:16 AM

Status of other viewers?

I'm not getting WTNH digital programming at 8.1 on a Tivo s3 or two DTivo HR10-250s. I am getting guide data.
I'm not getting WCTX digital programming at 59.1 on a Tivo s3 or two DTivo HR10-250s. I am getting guide data.
I am getting WTNH digital programming at 10.3, but without guide data, on the HR10-250s but nothing on the s3.
I am getting a mapped channel entry, but no guide data or programming, for WCTX digital at 2.1 on the s3 but nothing on the HR10-250s.

All else is well.

vmaxed

05-08-07, 07:35 AM

I am receiving WCTX-DT at 39.3 on my Samsung TV receiver last night and today :confused:

WTNH-DT 008.1/008.3 aren't coming in today on my Dish receivers, but 8.1 is coming in on the Samsung TV receiver today.. :confused:

They must be working on them.

Ed.. ;)

brewer4

05-08-07, 09:32 AM

WTNH-DT went down last night sometime before prime time. We lost most of Dancing with the Stars until we figured out something was wrong. The channel just stopped working on HR10-250 HD D* Tivos and a D* HR20. I flipped to a Boston ABC (my D* account is mapped to Boston for instances like this) and all was working there so it was definitely a WTNH issue. I checked this morning and the channel is back but WTF? You better believe I am going to make sure my Boston ABC HD on the HR20 is recording this week. LIN is strong arming D* and not allowing their HD signal yet cant even get their OTA signal working properly and consistently. Sorry to beat you up but its an unprofessional joke.

KML-224

05-08-07, 09:47 AM

How are you getting WCVB-DT? Was WGGB-DT in Springfield ever an option? Do you receive them with an antenna at all? (I can't here in New Britain.)

brewer4

05-08-07, 09:57 AM

Just to let folks know 8-1 is not working on the HR10-250. I did a channel scan and 10-3 and 10-4 are now showing with 10-3 displaying the picture.

I can get WGGB-DT in Springfield if I move my antenna but I lose Hartford stations. I get WCVB Boston ABC since my service address with D* is a Boston zip. I did this to compensate for LIN's refusal to allow WTNH via sat and NESN HD only avail in Boston zip codes. Of course they only work via 5 LNB dish and HR20 or H20 MPEG4 receiver. They don't work on my HD Tivos hence the need for WTNH ABC to work as we do most of our network recordings via the HD Tivos. I use the HR20 mainly for sports like NESN HD, MPEG4 stuff, and non-network programming.

JonsZX2SR

05-08-07, 09:58 AM

Something wacky is happening with WTNH-DT (8.1 on Ch 10) and with WCTX-DT (59.1 on Ch. 39). Recently WTNH-DT increased the number of subchannels from 2 to 4 (8.1, 8.2, 8.3 and 8.4) and moved the 24 hour weather channel from 8.2 to 59.2

8.1 was in HD and 8.2 was the SD broadcast. However, I got a "scrambled video" message when trying to receive 8.2, 8.3 and 8.4.

I sent a couple of emails to the engineering staff asking if they plan to shift to a subscription format for 8.2, 8.3 and 8.4 but haven't gotten any replies.

Last night I got the "scrambled video" message on 8.1, 8.2, 8.3 and 8.4 and 59.2 disappeared. I'm not sure if the staff at WTNH/WCTX know what they are doing.

I switched to WGGB-DT on 40.1 for ABC and have WCDC-DT (19.1) as a backup, but most people don't have these options.
57-1 hasn't come in for me here in East Windsor for the past several weeks. I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna and Samsung H260F external receiver. This is the only area digital channel that gives the "Weak or No Signal" message on the screen.

Earlier this week, I asked on the Springfield OTA AVS Forum if other viewers were having reception problems with WGBY-DT. A viewer from south of Hartford, who also has the same model Samsung receiver that I have, posted that he was getting these channels without problems with a signal strength of 4 on a scale of 10. A forum member from Chicopee, MA also reported no problems.
I'm located on a high point along the S.Windsor/Vernon town line close to Ellington 5 corners using a CM 3018 with a modified UHF section with an Antennacraft 10C202 amplifier mounted on a mast about 44' above ground level. I haven't had any problems with WGBY-DT (D57/58) WGGB-DT (D40/55) or WWLP (D22/11) as long as the antenna is oriented reasonably well towards the two transmission towers. I receive 22.1 (11) very well far off axis as expected.

I noticed that WGBY-DT dropped 57.5 recently and 57.3 and 57.4 are missing from my channel selection, although I need to get home early enough to see if I can receive 57.3 and 57.4 during daytime hours.
Any news on an ETA for WEDH-DT??
Does anyone know what is going to happen with WEDN-DT (53.1, etc.) which is broadcast on Ch. 45 when WEDH-DT finally gets on the air ?? I believe WEDH-DT (24.1) was originally allocated Ch. 32. Rather than get frustrated with the delay of WEDH-DT getting on the air and with my fortunate location, I opted to receive 53.1, etc. It's unfortunate that WEDH-DT has taken so long to get on the air while WGBY-DT has spent the time improving their available programming.