Is it just me or does WSJV-DTV 28.1 have speckled snow glitches across the HD screen? Been that way for weeks. Reminds me of "hair dryer" interference on a weak analog signal :-).

Is it just me or does WSJV-DTV 28.1 have speckled snow glitches across the HD screen? Been that way for weeks. Reminds me of "hair dryer" interference on a weak analog signal :-).
Um, scroll up 2 posts. :)

Did I imagine it or was Smallville flawless last night (A/V, not storyline)?

Did I imagine it or was Smallville flawless last night (A/V, not storyline)?

Good to hear. I'll keep my fingers crossed that its fixed then.

Good to hear. I'll keep my fingers crossed that its fixed then.

Seemed like it to me. There might have been a pop or two, but then again that could have been my signal too.

I haven't watched WSJV Fox 28 in a couple days so they may have there HD feed back by now.

I was informed by there engineer that they were doing an upgrade to the graphics package which would allow them to key text over the HD feed. In the process something went wrong and they lost it temporarily. This is why they have been broadcasting in SD.

He also told me that they will begin multicasting in the near future. The second feed will be Retro Television Network. http://www.rtnville.com/

He also told me that they will begin multicasting in the near future. The second feed will be Retro Television Network. http://www.rtnville.com/

I hate it when channels do that, like 16 and 22 as well. It always ends up lowering the quality of their main channel. I'd rather just dedicate all of the signal to one channel.

I hate it when channels do that, like 16 and 22 as well. It always ends up lowering the quality of their main channel. I'd rather just dedicate all of the signal to one channel.

I agree, I voiced my concern that the NFL on WSJV would end up the same blurry macroblocking mess it is on WSBT and WNDU.

Here is the info from the email I received.

We do have plans to multicast. Our original plan was starting December 1st. But it may be delayed due to economic issues. The second channel would be the Retro Television Network. Go to their website for more info (rtnville.com). Will that have an effect on our main signal? I don't think so but I can't be sure. Keep in mind there are two main HD formats: 720p (Fox and ABC) or 720 lines per picture, progressive scan while NBC (WNDU) and CBS (WSBT) use 1080i or 1080 lines per picture, interlaced scanning. The quality is close but 720p (what we use) is considered better for action (sports) and 1080i is better for drama and other programming. Also, the way we process the signal is slightly different than WSBT and WNDU. Our system is more of a floating system with the main signal taking priority while the other two have a fixed amount of the signal assigned to one channel and the remainder going to the other channels. I hope that makes sense.

We have made changes recently that will allow us to "key" weather info over an HD signal without having to go back to SD. That is in place now. But in moving the Fox signal so we could do that, we have lost the Fox HD signal and we are working to restore that

Well at least it won't have to go back to SD during weather problems. We'll see how the quality holds up when they start multicasting I guess. I just can't see how quality wouldn't be lowered.

or during elections ... became obvious that many stations are not technology upgraded for text scroll over HD. I watched ABC 57.1 for most election returns because they didn't SD their signal.

Good to hear. I'll keep my fingers crossed that its fixed then.

Smallville was near flawless for me too. Awesome! Now I need to go knock on some wood. LOL

I hate it when channels do that, like 16 and 22 as well. It always ends up lowering the quality of their main channel. I'd rather just dedicate all of the signal to one channel.

I think 16, 22, and 28 should seriously get a hold of WNIT's engineer. WNIT has a 1080i and SD feed, but their HD feed always looks spectacular. Granted it's not perfect, but if you watch a show like Nature or Nova compared to most of the local channels, it looks breath taking. Simulcasting can be done well even on a 1080i station and WNIT to me is a clear representation of that.

I think 16, 22, and 28 should seriously get a hold of WNIT's engineer. WNIT has a 1080i and SD feed, but their HD feed always looks spectacular. Granted it's not perfect, but if you watch a show like Nature or Nova compared to most of the local channels, it looks breath taking. Simulcasting can be done well even on a 1080i station and WNIT to me is a clear representation of that.

agreed

I hate it when channels do that, like 16 and 22 as well. It always ends up lowering the quality of their main channel. I'd rather just dedicate all of the signal to one channel.

Fox has specific Bitrate requirements for their HD main channels. In fact with Fox's gear, it basically manages the bitrate for them.

Smallville was near flawless for me too. Awesome! Now I need to go knock on some wood. LOL

Knocking.......oh wait, my desk is fake wood. Does that count????

Fox has specific Bitrate requirements for their HD main channels. In fact with Fox's gear, it basically manages the bitrate for them.

So this means they can pop out as many sub channels as they want just so as long as they meet Fox's minimum requirement for allocated bandwidth? (which in theory can't change from what it is now to meet that requirement.)

So this means they can pop out as many sub channels as they want just so as long as they meet Fox's minimum requirement for allocated bandwidth? (which in theory can't change from what it is now to meet that requirement.)

Basically, the local stations cannot touch the Fox network HD feed. They cannot compress it down or otherwise screw with it. What you see as Fox-HD is what everyone else in the country is seeing.

- Trip

Basically, the local stations cannot touch the Fox network HD feed. They cannot compress it down or otherwise screw with it. What you see as Fox-HD is what everyone else in the country is seeing.

- Trip

That sounds like a good policy to me. :)

I think 16, 22, and 28 should seriously get a hold of WNIT's engineer. WNIT has a 1080i and SD feed, but their HD feed always looks spectacular. Granted it's not perfect, but if you watch a show like Nature or Nova compared to most of the local channels, it looks breath taking. Simulcasting can be done well even on a 1080i station and WNIT to me is a clear representation of that.

Yes, channel 34 always has a great picture but the volume level is always way too low compared to all the other HD and SD channels.

Basically, the local stations cannot touch the Fox network HD feed. They cannot compress it down or otherwise screw with it. What you see as Fox-HD is what everyone else in the country is seeing.

- Trip

Then how will they overlay weather information without compressing?

Maybe that's the only time they recompress?

Then how will they overlay weather information without compressing?

Maybe that's the only time they recompress?

That's why all Fox stations currently have to drop out of HD to do crawls. They cannot touch the signal, period.

Supposedly, Fox will be sending all stations new equipment by September which will allow that overlay, but the compression will continue to be controlled by the Fox network.

- Trip

That's why all Fox stations currently have to drop out of HD to do crawls. They cannot touch the signal, period.

Supposedly, Fox will be sending all stations new equipment by September which will allow that overlay, but the compression will continue to be controlled by the Fox network.

- Trip
that doesn't make any sense. wsjv has to decode the signal, overlay the weather info and re-encode the signal. Otherwise, you either have the direct signal from fox (no weather info) or SD feed with weather info overlayed.

also, you said September, that was a couple months ago...

that doesn't make any sense. wsjv has to decode the signal, overlay the weather info and re-encode the signal. Otherwise, you either have the direct signal from fox (no weather info) or SD feed with weather info overlayed.

also, you said September, that was a couple months ago...

September of next year.

What I'm saying is that the new Fox equipment will allow for HD overlays but Fox will continue to control how much the signal is compressed. Stations will continue to be unable to overcompress or otherwise tamper with the HD.

- Trip

September of next year.

What I'm saying is that the new Fox equipment will allow for HD overlays but Fox will continue to control how much the signal is compressed. Stations will continue to be unable to overcompress or otherwise tamper with the HD.

- Trip

I see. So if it's not happening till next year, what's going on now?

I don't know. It sounds like your local station is having problems with its equipment, but not being from the area, I really can't say.

- Trip

I was referring to this response WSJV said:

We have made changes recently that will allow us to "key" weather info over an HD signal without having to go back to SD. That is in place now. But in moving the Fox signal so we could do that, we have lost the Fox HD signal and we are working to restore that

Your guess is as good as mine. I've been told that pretty much no Fox stations can overlay anything on the Fox network HD. That they "lost" Fox HD in attempting to do so might mean they tried anyway and screwed something up.

- Trip

September of next year.

What I'm saying is that the new Fox equipment will allow for HD overlays but Fox will continue to control how much the signal is compressed. Stations will continue to be unable to overcompress or otherwise tamper with the HD.

- Trip

We like to call it MPEG splicing.

Directv guide so far is still showing PBS guide info for channel 69.1

That's why all Fox stations currently have to drop out of HD to do crawls. They cannot touch the signal, period.

Supposedly, Fox will be sending all stations new equipment by September which will allow that overlay, but the compression will continue to be controlled by the Fox network.That completely contradicts what the local station has been saying and personal experience.

If stations were absolutely forbidden to change the feed how would they do something simple like legal IDs? Or the station specific corner logos when a network logo isn't on the screen? Years of watching HD has demonstrated that stations ARE capable of overlaying fixed graphics on a HD feed.

It is the crawls that are more difficult ... moving text/changing graphics and perhaps rescaling the picture (such as they do on SD) so the program is shown smaller when there is a scrolling bar on the screen.

I can understand and would agree with a claim that what stations can do with their feed is limited by their affiliation contracts. But a claim that "They cannot touch the signal, period." Sorry, that is unbelievable. There are too many ways to touch it that have been done for years.

That completely contradicts what the local station has been saying and personal experience.

If stations were absolutely forbidden to change the feed how would they do something simple like legal IDs? Or the station specific corner logos when a network logo isn't on the screen? Years of watching HD has demonstrated that stations ARE capable of overlaying fixed graphics on a HD feed.

It is the crawls that are more difficult ... moving text/changing graphics and perhaps rescaling the picture (such as they do on SD) so the program is shown smaller when there is a scrolling bar on the screen.

I can understand and would agree with a claim that what stations can do with their feed is limited by their affiliation contracts. But a claim that "They cannot touch the signal, period." Sorry, that is unbelievable. There are too many ways to touch it that have been done for years.

The splicer contains a feature to insert the bug in the corner. That bug is inserted locally by the Fox splicer but its appearance is controlled by Fox. Fox stations have to drop to SD to do an ID as far as I know.

I'm only repeating what EVERY Fox station engineer has ever told me, and I've talked to a number of them. If WSJV is screwing with the Fox HD, then it's most likely unapproved by Fox and if Fox has to send someone out to fix the splicer, WSJV will foot the bill.

- Trip

That is quite an accusation. I'll trust that our Fox affiliate knows more about their contract and that the equipment they installed is allowable.

Drop to SD for an ID? Unbelievable.

Drop to SD for an ID? I just did some research and it turns out the splicer does have the capability to overlay legal IDs. I had not seen this before, and had heard that this capability was not included in the splicer. See this PDF here:

http://splicer.foxpico.com/Technical%20buletin/TECHNICAL%20BULLETIN%20NO%208%20REVISED.pdf

Here's the manual for the splicer, which contains information about the bug overlay. It doesn't contain the legal ID information noted above, which is probably how I missed it in the first place:

http://splicer.foxpico.com/Manuals/fox%20hd%20splicer%20manual%20v8.7.pdf

And here's an article describing the Fox Splicer:

http://broadcastengineering.com/news/broadcasting_fox_stations_splice/

And here's a post on this forum by foxeng, engineer at a local Fox station, about the splicer:

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3893965&&#post3893965

The signal literally comes out of FOX's HD receiver and through the splicer acting as an on ramp to the stations own 720p signal, goes straight to the transmitter without ever being touched by the stations own digital studio equipment.

And finally, here's a website showing that the new Fox splicer will allow for HD overlay on network programming:

http://splicer.foxpico.com/

Now, what WSJV could have done is bought an HD overlay system for syndicated HD, like Two and a Half Men and 700 Club. But I've seen nothing to suggest that any Fox stations can overlay on Fox HD programming and everything to suggest they cannot.

- Trip

I'm wondering with the analog shut off being so close if I should bother upgrading my antenna, or if it would even make any difference either way. 57 is the only channel that I can't receive reliably in my area, but all of the other channels come in just fine. I have adjusted my antenna and got 57 in better and lost another channel or two in the process. So for quite a while I've been living without 57 for the most part because all of the other channels are more valuable to me. However with Lost coming back on the air soon, I really want to remedy my problem with 57 very soon.

My current antenna is mid sized unidirectional antenna I bought from RadioShack a couple of years ago. I couldn't tell you much more than that as that's all I know about it. I can tell you it is not amplified and I don't think an amplifier would help or be necessary. I'd rather just get a better antenna than put an amp on my existing one. I recall that my housemate and I didn't go all out on it, I think we only payed maybe $40-$50 for it. Would it make any difference if I put more money into a hopefully better antenna, or should I just wait it out and see what happens after the DTV transition? I near the corner of Nappanee Street, and Mishawaka Road.

My brother is also looking into getting an antenna, but since he lives in Mishawaka I may just sell him mine and use the cash towards an upgrade.

Drop to SD for an ID?That was your claim ... glad that you found something that cleared up the issue.And finally, here's a website showing that the new Fox splicer will allow for HD overlay on network programming:

http://splicer.foxpico.com/

Now, what WSJV could have done is bought an HD overlay system for syndicated HD, like Two and a Half Men and 700 Club. But I've seen nothing to suggest that any Fox stations can overlay on Fox HD programming and everything to suggest they cannot.Many stations have been buying their own equipment to do their own overlays. I don't see why a Fox station would be prohibited from installing such equipment. The splicer is intended to make it easier for Fox stations to use network provided HD. If they place their weather crawl system between the Fox splicer and the transmitter and cut it in as needed they could still provide the best quality signal possible.

The FCC is focusing on weather alerts and expects stations to carry the same alerts on their HD feeds as they do with their SD feeds. The network telling stations that they cannot follow the FCC's wishes until late 2009 doesn't fly. Perhaps Fox won't be supplying the equipment until then ... barring local affiliates from performing under their licenses would be problematic.

Would Fox prefer that stations drop to SD upconvert during weather crawls? A prohibition against providing the best picture possible seems illogical.

I'm wondering with the analog shut off being so close if I should bother upgrading my antenna, or if it would even make any difference either way. 57 is the only channel that I can't receive reliably in my area, but all of the other channels come in just fine.
At this point I would not bother if you receive DT 49 / 57-01.
If you can't receive DT 49 clearly now would be better than later to be installing antennas.

Many stations have been buying their own equipment to do their own overlays. I don't see why a Fox station would be prohibited from installing such equipment. The splicer is intended to make it easier for Fox stations to use network provided HD. If they place their weather crawl system between the Fox splicer and the transmitter and cut it in as needed they could still provide the best quality signal possible.

I don't know how these systems work. My feeling is that these systems decompress the HD, do the overlay, and then recompress, creating loss in quality. There could be some that splice, but I don't see why they would given that all the other networks do not use such a system and instead send down some 30 Mbps feed (or an MPEG-4 feed) that the station has to compress further (or recompress in the case of MPEG-4). Fox wants their picture quality to be consistent across the board, and I imagine a downgrade on quality would be smacked down.

The FCC is focusing on weather alerts and expects stations to carry the same alerts on their HD feeds as they do with their SD feeds. The network telling stations that they cannot follow the FCC's wishes until late 2009 doesn't fly. Perhaps Fox won't be supplying the equipment until then ... barring local affiliates from performing under their licenses would be problematic.

Would Fox prefer that stations drop to SD upconvert during weather crawls? A prohibition against providing the best picture possible seems illogical.

My feeling is that Fox would rather have a sharp SD than a crappy HD. Whether or not I'm right is another story entirely.

- Trip

WSBT just did an HD crawl of all the NFL scores for the day during Cold Case. I don't know if it was from national or local.

WSBT just did an HD crawl of all the NFL scores for the day during Cold Case. I don't know if it was from national or local.

I just watched Cold Case for the first time ever, and man did I love it! I also noticed WSBT's crawl as well which seemed to work seamlessly with CBS's HD feed. It looks like 22 has this crawl thing licked.

At this point I would not bother if you receive DT 49 / 57-01.
If you can't receive DT 49 clearly now would be better than later to be installing antennas.

That's the problem, I do not get a consistent signal on 57-01. That's why I'm wondering if I should bother upgrading, or if I should just hold out for the transition to take place. The only problem is I do not know if WBND will boost their power when the transition does take place, or how soon that would happen. On the other hand since my brother is looking into getting an antenna installed, this might be a good opportunity to sell him mine in favor of getting an antenna that might resolve my problem with WBND. Of course it seems that no matter what I do it's a crap shoot.

WBND-LD, being a low-powered digital station, cannot increase power. They're already operating at the maximum 15 kW.

- Trip

WBND-LD, being a low-powered digital station, cannot increase power. They're already operating at the maximum 15 kW.

- Trip

Would they be able to use the power currently used for their analog signal to boost the digital signal?

My feeling is that Fox would rather have a sharp SD than a crappy HD. Whether or not I'm right is another story entirely.I envision a system that simply passes through the signal when not doing an overlay. No need to decode and re-encode unless there is something else going on (the crawl). Perhaps there would be a glitch at the beginning and end of the crawl but HD with an overlay should look better than SD with an overlay.

Would they be able to use the power currently used for their analog signal to boost the digital signal?

No. Their current digital transmitter is already making the maximum 15 kW. The FCC will not allow them to add any more power to that signal.

- Trip

Would they be able to use the power currently used for their analog signal to boost the digital signal?No. They have a license for 15kw digital on channel 49 with a directional pattern. They cannot exceed that license.

One thing that may help is if WHME can get away from channel 48 and go digital on channel 46 ... but "57" cannot increase power.

Phoenixfury, do the antenna change.

I don't mean increase power, I mean use the power that would go unused when the analog signal shuts off. Maybe I just don't understand it properly..

I don't mean increase power, I mean use the power that would go unused when the analog signal shuts off. Maybe I just don't understand it properly..

My understanding is a broadcaster is only allowed to bump their digital signal up to the same amount of power as their analog transmitter, but no more than that. Or at least that's how the Unreliable Sources show / podcast explained it on their DTV America show. They explain that most broadcasters are broadcasting their digital signal at a lower power and that when the tranisition go's into effect February 17th that most of these stations will bump up to their full power that they are allowed. That's why I wondered if I should just wait it out, or upgrade my antenna now while I can.

WBND-LD is at their final, full power. Unreliable Source indeed. There are some stations transmitting at a lower power, but many are already at their full authorized power and nothing will change for them after the transition. The only difference that may appear is that an analog which interferes may go away, reducing the noise floor.

In the case of WBND-LD, if WHME-DT is granted their move from 48 to 46, I imagine that the signal will become easier to receive, though how much is a matter of argument.

South Bend, in particular, will see no changes in power level from WNDU, WNIT, or WHME immediately after the transition; all have requested a power boost at some point in the future but none have been granted and they will not get built out by February 17. WSJV-DT will actually be weaker immediately after the transition (220 kW on channel 58 vs 48 kW on channel 28), and then a few weeks later will boost to a signal slightly stronger (to 250 kW) than they had before. WSBT-DT will be slightly stronger (229 kW on channel 30 to 266 kW on channel 22). Keep in mind that power boosts are logarithmic, so power has to double to gain 3 dB of signal, and those slight boosts from 229 to 266 and from 220 to 250 are negligible.

The other three signals in the market are finished; WBND-LD, WMYS-LD, and WCWW-LD are all at their full authorized power which is at the federal power limit for low-powered TV stations. As such, they could not boost power any more if they wanted to (I imagine they'd like to, but cannot).

- Trip

I don't mean increase power, I mean use the power that would go unused when the analog signal shuts off. Maybe I just don't understand it properly..The power they are not using for analog simply is a bill they don't have to pay when analog is shut down. It should save stations quite a bit of money not having to power the analog transmitters.
My understanding is a broadcaster is only allowed to bump their digital signal up to the same amount of power as their analog transmitter, but no more than that.The general idea is replication. The digital signal granted by the government is intended to replicate the coverage (not power level) of the analog signal. Some stations have built their FCC suggested facilities and found that actual performance is less than predicted and have asked for more power so they don't lose coverage. Some stations have been assigned digital frequencies that cannot be taken to full power until after analog stations are shut down.

LP stations were granted (if they asked in the right window) companion stations. In South Bend those stations have been granted at their fullest power. After digital transition there may be some moves to sort out issues and increase coverage but IIRC for LDs 15kw is pretty much the limit.

BTW: One unmentioned (recently) station in the mix is TBNs signal on channel 18 out of Elkhart which has permission to "flash cut" to digital. That permission expires on March 16th of 2009 so one would expect that 18 would become a digital signal around transition time. It, like the LDs, actually has a much bigger predicted coverage area than the LP station being replaced.

Of course when WCWW moves from 27 to 25 the signal should still be better? Where I live when the Chicago channels are coming in real strong I lose WCWW because WCIU is on 27 right now as well. I think that should be resolved after the transition.

As we know Schurz is buying WCWW, WMYS and WBND. I know you guys don't like to think about this scenario but, what if Schurz wanted to put ABC on a subchannel? Of course this will reduce quality but what if they removed the weather channel currently on 22.3 and changed SBT2 to ABC would there be enough bandwidth to handle the HD for ABC and CBS? It would definately solve the coverage range problem for ABC.

Of course when WCWW moves from 27 to 25 the signal should still be better? Where I live when the Chicago channels are coming in real strong I lose WCWW because WCIU is on 27 right now as well. I think that should be resolved after the transition.

I don't see a permit or application to return to channel 25... I'll let someone who knows more about the stations handle this one.

As we know Schurz is buying WCWW, WMYS and WBND. I know you guys don't like to think about this scenario but, what if Schurz wanted to put ABC on a subchannel? Of course this will reduce quality but what if they removed the weather channel currently on 22.3 and changed SBT2 to ABC would there be enough bandwidth to handle the HD for ABC and CBS? It would definately solve the coverage range problem for ABC.

Could they do it? Yes. Would you ever want to watch CBS or ABC in HD ever again? No. Both would look horrible.

- Trip

Hello folks, long time reader, first time posting.

Has something recently been changed with WCWW's digital signal? I'm on the south side of Plymouth, and have never gotten WCWW before until about three days ago...never moved the antenna or changed up any of my configuration. Granted, this is just with a little indoor antenna (one of those black Phillips ones you can get at Wal-Mart) and not even in the best of locations in the house....

I have gotten WSBT, WNDU, and WHME swimmingly without too much work. Kinda took me by surprise when I re-tuned OTA and found it.

Hello folks, long time reader, first time posting.

Has something recently been changed with WCWW's digital signal? I'm on the south side of Plymouth, and have never gotten WCWW before until about three days ago...never moved the antenna or changed up any of my configuration. Granted, this is just with a little indoor antenna (one of those black Phillips ones you can get at Wal-Mart) and not even in the best of locations in the house....

I have gotten WSBT, WNDU, and WHME swimmingly without too much work. Kinda took me by surprise when I re-tuned OTA and found it.

Lack of leaves on the trees would do it. You're going to need something more powerfull than a set top antenna to reliably get low power digital. You may get lucky but you'll want something better.

Lack of leaves on the trees would do it. You're going to need something more powerfull than a set top antenna to reliably get low power digital. You may get lucky but you'll want something better.Ha, I didn't think of that. Makes complete sense, though. I only really watch WSBT and WNDU for HD anyway (which I get just fine), so no real loss if it's not there. I can't even honestly tell you the last time I watched anything on the CW anyway. :)

Ha, I didn't think of that. Makes complete sense, though. I only really watch WSBT and WNDU for HD anyway (which I get just fine), so no real loss if it's not there. I can't even honestly tell you the last time I watched anything on the CW anyway. :)


You don't watch Smallville? (gasp!) Just kidding. I was going to suggest cutting down all tree's in the path of WCWW's tower, but I don't think that would go over very well with most people. LOL

ugh, WSJV finally gets the hi-def working, and now we are back in SD due to the lake effect snow warning. cannot win. :mad:

What the heck is going on with WSBT-DT? All three of the 22-x family have huge PQ problems. It's even affecting the audio on WSBT-HD (22-1). My Toshiba's quality meter shows error rate and it's zero, so it appears to be a problem inside the signal chain and not OTA.

I'm experiencing the same issues with WSBT. It's really aggravating. I hope it gets fixed soon.

As we know Schurz is buying WCWW, WMYS and WBND. I know you guys don't like to think about this scenario but, what if Schurz wanted to put ABC on a subchannel?I could see them putting a SD version of the ABC signal on a subchannel ... perhaps even a SD version of the WB signal. But I would not expect two HD signals on the same channel.

I'm not sure how the affiliation agreements would work. The ABC stations in Battle Creek, Fort Wayne and especially Chicago would not appreciate competition in their traditional market areas. The current ABC57 (on DT49) feed seems to fill an uncovered area nicely. The affiliation agreement would be the first hurdle, in my opinion.

WSBT is the best signal, WCWW is 2nd best (non-directional 15kw), WBND is 3rd (directional into non-competing areas), WMYS is the worst.
WSBT (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1252741.html) WCWW (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209538.html) WBND (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1211632.html) WMYS (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209326.html)

I suppose if CBS ratings dropped they could swap affiliations and put ABC on 22. Again ... affiliation agreements would come into play. What has WSBT promised to CBS Network TV?

Along the lines of "thoughts people may not like" ... how about removing SBT2 and the weather channel from WSBT 22 and putting SD versions of WCWW and WBND there? It would get the content out further ... although quality would suffer.

There is a lot that can be done ... plus stuff that can't be done. I wouldn't expect a major makeover.

Schurz doesn't own any ABC affiliates at the moment, but they own three CBS stations (WSBT, WDBJ, KWCH). They also own three NBC stations (KYTV, WAGT, KTUU). I doubt anything happens to CBS in South Bend due to the group deals that landed those affiliations where they are, unless CBS and NBC swapped for some reason. (Gray, owner of WNDU, owns a lot of CBS stations, and I heard that NBC would ideally like to be on all of Schurz's stations, but given NBC's ratings of late, I doubt that'd happen.)

- Trip

I was going to suggest cutting down all tree's in the path of WCWW's tower, but I don't think that would go over very well with most people. LOLHahaha, it'd be a few trees and a couple of houses...lol.

Noon news on WSBT can't seem to get audio from the set out...not one spoken word from the anchor or weatherman, but commercials seem to work. Seem to be still feeling everything out.

So it seems WSJV wasn't installing the HD weather overlays yet, as it dropped back to SD during a lake effect snow warning last night for a few minutes. Either that wasn't what they were doing, or they aren't finished setting it up or something.

I could see them putting a SD version of the ABC signal on a subchannel ... perhaps even a SD version of the WB signal. But I would not expect two HD signals on the same channel.

I'm not sure how the affiliation agreements would work. The ABC stations in Battle Creek, Fort Wayne and especially Chicago would not appreciate competition in their traditional market areas. The current ABC57 (on DT49) feed seems to fill an uncovered area nicely. The affiliation agreement would be the first hurdle, in my opinion.

WSBT is the best signal, WCWW is 2nd best (non-directional 15kw), WBND is 3rd (directional into non-competing areas), WMYS is the worst.
WSBT (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1252741.html) WCWW (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209538.html) WBND (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1211632.html) WMYS (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209326.html)

I suppose if CBS ratings dropped they could swap affiliations and put ABC on 22. Again ... affiliation agreements would come into play. What has WSBT promised to CBS Network TV?

Along the lines of "thoughts people may not like" ... how about removing SBT2 and the weather channel from WSBT 22 and putting SD versions of WCWW and WBND there? It would get the content out further ... although quality would suffer.

There is a lot that can be done ... plus stuff that can't be done. I wouldn't expect a major makeover.Does the ATSC standard (or the FCC for that matter) allow for an ATSC sub-channel to be identified as a different channel than the main channel? As I've mentioned before, I'd like to see WSBT-DT be dedicated to the full HD goodness and SBT2 and StormTracker 22 channels be migrated to WMYS-LD but still retain their 22-2 and 22-3 IDs. I hadn't taken the difference in coverage areas into account, however, so I doubt this will ever happen. Oh, well...

I noticed that SBT2 did not have the 10pm news in HD. IMHO, that's the way it should be. Of course, with all the other problems with their digital signal last night, maybe WSBT decided not to throw the HD switch. On the other hand, Jeopardy! looked good in HD tonight!

And, nice to have House in HD again... No snow tonight!

Does the ATSC standard (or the FCC for that matter) allow for an ATSC sub-channel to be identified as a different channel than the main channel? As I've mentioned before, I'd like to see WSBT-DT be dedicated to the full HD goodness and SBT2 and StormTracker 22 channels be migrated to WMYS-LD but still retain their 22-2 and 22-3 IDs. I hadn't taken the difference in coverage areas into account, however, so I doubt this will ever happen. Oh, well...

It's in the standard, but it has a history of not working well with some receivers. Between that and the coverage distance you mentioned... I doubt it'll happen.

- Trip

Does the ATSC standard (or the FCC for that matter) allow for an ATSC sub-channel to be identified as a different channel than the main channel?I'll concur with Trip on the answer to that ... possible, permitted, but problematic. Based on all the problems we've seen keeping "normal" PSIP data correct (and not flipping to the wrong channel numbers/etc) I wouldn't push it.
As I've mentioned before, I'd like to see WSBT-DT be dedicated to the full HD goodness and SBT2 and StormTracker 22 channels be migrated to WMYS-LD but still retain their 22-2 and 22-3 IDs.It would be nice to see SBT2 elsewhere or even gone (since WSBT will have the other outlets). Perhaps WSBT will put their 10pm news on WCWW (2nd largest coverage area in the collection).

Once stations start these subchannels it is hard to get them to give them up.
I noticed that SBT2 did not have the 10pm news in HD. IMHO, that's the way it should be.Two HDs and one SD on "22" digital? No thank you!

Once stations start these subchannels it is hard to get them to give them up.
Two HDs and one SD on "22" digital? No thank you!Like I said, I agree with that! The article in the "Bolor Supplement" (;)) Sunday said that WSBT would have their news in HD on both WSBT-HD at 11pm and SBT2 at 10pm. Their web site is a little more vague (http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/34296264.html), simply stating News in HD starting Sunday, November 16th, at 10pm and 11pm.

Also, there's a link to a video tour of the new News Room and the Server room at Whiz-bit, too. Pretty impressive!

I just thought you guys would be interested to know I just updated my Xbox 360 to the brand new fall update. So what's that got to do with HDTV? A heck of a lot actually. The new update has Netflix support, which also makes the 360 the first Netflix set top box with HD! Unfortunately their HD selections for movies leaves something to be desired, but they do have quite a few of the current season TV shows. I put the 3rd season of Heroes in my que and I got to say, I'm blown away and how good the quality is by comparison to how this show looks on channel 16-1. Heck I'm just blown away that streaming content over the internet could even look better than it did OTA. I'm sad to say it didn't take me more than a minute of watching Heroes this way to think that we are being cheated out of how good this show could look to us OTA.

I just thought you guys would be interested to know I just updated my Xbox 360 to the brand new fall update. So what's that got to do with HDTV? A heck of a lot actually. The new update has Netflix support, which also makes the 360 the first Netflix set top box with HD! Unfortunately their HD selections for movies leaves something to be desired, but they do have quite a few of the current season TV shows. I put the 3rd season of Heroes in my que and I got to say, I'm blown away and how good the quality is by comparison to how this show looks on channel 16-1. Heck I'm just blown away that streaming content over the internet could even look better than it did OTA. I'm sad to say it didn't take me more than a minute of watching Heroes this way to think that we are being cheated out of how good this show could look to us OTA.

Yeah 16-1's quality is very subpar.

You might recall an image I posted from a frame of heroes a few weeks back:
http://i36.tinypic.com/993qd2.jpg (http://i36.tinypic.com/993qd2.jpg)

It was a fast moving shot, but it shouldn't be that blocky still.

Yeah 16-1's quality is very subpar.

You might recall an image I posted from a frame of heroes a few weeks back:
http://i36.tinypic.com/993qd2.jpg (http://i36.tinypic.com/993qd2.jpg)

It was a fast moving shot, but it shouldn't be that blocky still.

This also makes me wonder why they are running a standard def sub channel which makes their HD channel suffer. Don't all DTV tuners pick up the HD feeds too? What's up with that?

This also makes me wonder why they are running a standard def sub channel which makes their HD channel suffer. Don't all DTV tuners pick up the HD feeds too? What's up with that?

exactly

Oops, just ignore this, I thought my last message didn't go through.

Yes this has been bothering me for some time. Having both 16.1 and 16.2 are pointless. There is really no need for it as you mentioned all tuners can pick up both of those channels.

I just thought you guys would be interested to know I just updated my Xbox 360 to the brand new fall update. So what's that got to do with HDTV? A heck of a lot actually. The new update has Netflix support, which also makes the 360 the first Netflix set top box with HD!My in-Laws have a subscription to NetFlix, but I don't think they're in the Xbox 360's demographic. I did see an LG Blu-Ray player at our local CC's liquidation sale that had NetFlix built-in (BD300 http://us.lge.com/bluray/), but even with the close-out price, it was still over $100 more than the Xbox. I also see by the "fine print" on the LG website, however, that the streaming movies are not HD with this player, which seems ridiculous.

My in-Laws have a subscription to NetFlix, but I don't think they're in the Xbox 360's demographic. I did see an LG Blu-Ray player at our local CC's liquidation sale that had NetFlix built-in (BD300 http://us.lge.com/bluray/), but even with the close-out price, it was still over $100 more than the Xbox. I also see by the "fine print" on the LG website, however, that the streaming movies are not HD with this player, which seems ridiculous.

I don't think netflix streams HD yet.

EDIT: nevermind. didn't see the 360 thing.

I don't think netflix streams HD yet.

EDIT: nevermind. didn't see the 360 thing.

To my knowledge, the Xbox 360 is the only Netflix compatable player right now that can stream HD. I suspect other players may eventually get a firmware update to support the HD streaming. The 360 just gets to be the first on the market to have this capability.

I have DirecTV and I pay about $92 for Total Choice, HBO, HD, DVR & 2 extra receivers. I'm considering switching to Comcast since I already have Internet and VoIP through them.

Anyone locally make this switch? How is the HD quality compared to Direct? Any regrets? How much would I be looking at paying?

I'm really happy with Direct so this is really a $$ decision. Thanks

They are advertising Phone, Internet, TV for $30.00 each and say that this is a full time price and not a special. Heard today on WSBT-AM 960

Yes this has been bothering me for some time. Having both 16.1 and 16.2 are pointless. There is really no need for it as you mentioned all tuners can pick up both of those channels.16.2 is valuable if you don't want to watch the stretched feed. (EDIT: OK, when did they stop stretching? Just took a peek at Poker after Dark and it is 4x3 with pillars on the 16x9 channel. Good!)

It may be there for that reason or for cable systems to get a SD feed for conversion. Yet DISH doesn't use it. They crop the HD feed for SD now. :(

They crop the HD feed for SD now. :(

That's the way most of us downconvert these days.

They are advertising Phone, Internet, TV for $30.00 each and say that this is a full time price and not a special. Heard today on WSBT-AM 960

I just called them and to get an equivalent TV package I have with DirecTV it would cost $123.96. This includes Digital Preferred plus HBO for $89.99, $15.99 for an HD DVR, $8.99 x2 for HD (non DVR). Since I'm already a customer with a promotion on my broadband they will not discount TV.

According to the website (http://www.comcast.com/shop/buyflow/default.ashx?SourcePage=Bundled#A105), no $30.00 each triple play exists. The cheapest triple play offered on the website is $132.99 for new subs only. Then it goes up to $176

I have DirecTV and I pay about $92 for Total Choice, HBO, HD, DVR & 2 extra receivers. I'm considering switching to Comcast since I already have Internet and VoIP through them.

Anyone locally make this switch? How is the HD quality compared to Direct? Any regrets? How much would I be looking at paying?

I'm really happy with Direct so this is really a $$ decision. Thanks

DirectTV has better technology. ATT Uverse (if its available) is pretty good too.

DirectTV has better technology. ATT Uverse (if its available) is pretty good too.

Beware with Uverse, only 2 HD feeds at one time in the house. If you are recording 2 HD feeds, you cannot watch a 3rd one. Or if you have more than 1 HD set in the house can cause a problem.

Beware with Uverse, only 2 HD feeds at one time in the house. If you are recording 2 HD feeds, you cannot watch a 3rd one. Or if you have more than 1 HD set in the house can cause a problem.

Uverse is not available an neither is FIOS. I believe my only options are DirecTV, Dish or Comcast. It looks like DirecTV is the best deal for me.

To my knowledge, the Xbox 360 is the only Netflix compatable player right now that can stream HD. I suspect other players may eventually get a firmware update to support the HD streaming. The 360 just gets to be the first on the market to have this capability.

I have the Roku Netflix box. It is supposed to be HD capable and has HDMI and component outputs. I don't think it has been enabled to stream HD but can be in the future. My internet is only 3Mbps so I know that is not fast enough for HD.

I have the Roku Netflix box. It is supposed to be HD capable and has HDMI and component outputs. I don't think it has been enabled to stream HD but can be in the future. My internet is only 3Mbps so I know that is not fast enough for HD.

I don't remember where I read it, but they say 8Mbps minimum for HD Netflix streaming on the 360.

I don't remember where I read it, but they say 8Mbps minimum for HD Netflix streaming on the 360.

holy crap, I think ABC HD streaming is like 3 or 3.5 mbps.

Directv's listing for channel 69.1 is now fixxed and no longer shows channel 34's PBS listing.

I just watched this week's Smallville. The audio was fine this week. However I saw an unusual amount of macroblocking throughout the episode. Did anyone else notice the macroblocking as well?

I just watched this week's Smallville. The audio was fine this week. However I saw an unusual amount of macroblocking throughout the episode. Did anyone else notice the macroblocking as well?

Good. I think the problem is licked. Thanks for the reports!!

I didn't see the macroblocking, unless you're referring to the effect they put on the camera during the cloverfield-like scenes. It was put there on purpose to make it look like a camcorder.

I did however notice the audio go silent for about 5 seconds during the theme song though...

I didn't see the macroblocking, unless you're referring to the effect they put on the camera during the cloverfield-like scenes. It was put there on purpose to make it look like a camcorder.

I did however notice the audio go silent for about 5 seconds during the theme song though...

I fast forwarded through the theme song, so I totally missed it. However the macroblocking occurred through several scenes, not just the Cloverfield like scenes. However I have a hunch that was likely weather related interference. I think it may have been snowing about the time Smallville was on. I know there was a good layer of it when I got off of work Thursday night. I think whatever interference I got was likely weather related this week.

I fast forwarded through the theme song, so I totally missed it. However the macroblocking occurred through several scenes, not just the Cloverfield like scenes. However I have a hunch that was likely weather related interference. I think it may have been snowing about the time Smallville was on. I know there was a good layer of it when I got off of work Thursday night. I think whatever interference I got was likely weather related this week.

Oh, well that was probably it since I get my channel via comcast.

I have direct OTA reception over in Elkhart ... heard the silent gap during the credits (usually don't as I skip credits) and the only bad video I saw was the intentional stuff.

Along with JL, I think the poor video quality (macroblocking) was part of the "wedding video" effect since that's the only time I noticed it. I also heard (or not) the audio dropout during the opening.

Anybody else notice 24: Redemption's audio being much quieter than usual? I had to turn my system 10% louder than I usually do for TV and movies.

What's up with WSBT dropping commecials in the middle of shows. Not where an actual commecial break belongs, but in the middle of a scene. It happened again tonight during The Unit at 16 minutes in. Michiana Window World, Gates, a WSBT News promo, Dr. Phil, then the same news promo again. :confused:

I also noticed the commercials on WSBT that were out of place! They also cut away early and left a few key words missing.

I also noticed the commercials on WSBT that were out of place! They also cut away early and left a few key words missing.

Welcome to new station automation growing pains. :eek:

Welcome to new station automation growing pains. :eek:

That's what they get for not using Hal 2000 as the AI to keep things running smoothly. LOL

WSBT-2 in high def?
I noticed tonight that WSBT-2 said at the start of the 10 pm news that they were in high def yet my tv said 480i. Can this be high def or did someone forget to throw the HD switch?? What gives?

More fox splicer clarification....

This summer Fox and grass valley/thompson will be replacing the whole system with a new one that uses the same gear and concepts, just newer. It will enable HD crawls among other things.

Additionally, when keying a logo or crawl, the splicer system does not de-compress the full frame, key, and recompress. It only modifies the macroblocks necessary, so that unaffected areas of picture remain at the same level of quality.

Anybody else notice 24: Redemption's audio being much quieter than usual? I had to turn my system 10% louder than I usually do for TV and movies.

Yeah, believe me, I noticed! I notice EVERYTIME 24 is on I have to crank the volume almost as loud as the tv goes. It's NOT my equipment, and I've posted about this problem before. I got one reply from somebody saying that "they didn't notice how low Fox was as much as how loud WSBT is". I'd much prefer having to turn down the volume. Again, isn't there some kind of decibel standard for audio broadcasters across the board? Does ANYBODY ELSE notice this?!? If an engineer could chime in and clue us in please do.

Brian

Anybody else notice 24: Redemption's audio being much quieter than usual? I had to turn my system 10% louder than I usually do for TV and movies.


I still have 24 recorded and just compared it to several other HD programs and all seem to be at similar levels except for anything coming off WSBT which is much louder than the others.

Speaking of 24, did you all notice the major error...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/mlang2000/24-1.jpg

I still have 24 recorded and just compared it to several other HD programs and all seem to be at similar levels except for anything coming off WSBT which is much louder than the others.

Speaking of 24, did you all notice the major error...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/mlang2000/24-1.jpg

yeah lol, I made this gif of it:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2z404dt.gif

I noticed this also. It reminds me of when I recently saw palm tree's in one scene of Jericho on CBS which is supposed to take place in Kansas.

I watched the 22.1 WSBT HD News tonight ... I normally watch WNDU but they are getting behind on quality ... that 16x9 monitor that Terry stands in front of to talk to people in the news room simply annoys me because they stretch a 4x3 image to fill the screen. You go from a "fat" person on the set to a "thin" person when they show it full frame. They should do better than that.

WSBT's newscast looked good graphically ... they used their HD crawl during sports for scores ... it didn't get turned off until after the promo after sports began.

Well, PSIP EPG data for WCWW-LD is wrong again. At 10:00pm tonight, it says "Fox 21/27 News". so it sounds like the programming service that Weigel Communications uses has their signals crossed again.

Well, PSIP EPG data for WCWW-LD is wrong again. At 10:00pm tonight, it says "Fox 21/27 News". so it sounds like the programming service that Weigel Communications uses has their signals crossed again.

It might just be easier to switch affiliations at this point. :eek:

How about changing call letters? WICW and WCWI are both available. :p

- Trip

Now that WSBT is broadcasting HD OTA, when will they offer local HDs on DirecTV? Any Word??

Very good question. When are we going to get all locals in HD on Directv.

When DirecTV and WSBT/Weigle come to agreement on carriage. I can't help but wonder if the sale is compounding the issue.

(The same answer for HD on DISH, although DISH doesn't have the partial market available.)

Did anyone else have any strange viewing / recording / DVR issues with Heroes on 16-1 last night? For some reason something went terribly wrong with my MCE DVR recording 10 minutes before the end of the episode. I was getting a message, something about not having the proper codecs to playback the video I was playing.. After that MCE freaked and wouldn't play any of my DVR media.. Then things got really scary. I rebooted and all of my DVR recordings were gone! Then I thought to totally shut down.. So I shut down my PC, rebooted then Vista started deleting a whole bunch of bad recording file segments... Once back up, I started MCE back up and everything was back.. All my video was able to play again, but I could not resume Heroes where it crapped out before. I only got the same message. So looks like my recording of this weeks Heroes may be corrupted, but things get harry if somethings wrong with the signal to begin with. That's why I wonder if anyone may have been affected.

BTW, thank goodness for Hulu! I was able to finish watching Heroes at the point my recording went bad. It sure would have been a major bummer to miss that ending. :)

Did anyone else have any strange viewing / recording / DVR issues with Heroes on 16-1 last night?

I'll check my media center when I get home.

I'm capturing Heroes from my comcast DVR to my computer right now, I'll see if there was any corruption. I didn't have any problems watching it last night though.

EDIT: No more corruption than usual (a few hiccups here and there in the stream)

Did anyone else have any strange viewing / recording / DVR issues with Heroes on 16-1 last night?

Sorry, mine was perfect on my VMC. You could look in the Recorded TV History or the Media Center Event Log to see if you had any errors.

I love my Vista MCE, but sometimes I think I should just bite the big one and get a duel tuner HD Tivo. Does anyone here have the HD models and has it been worth the price of admission? How much does Comcast charge per month per cablecard? I'd also like to know if I got the duel cable card Tivo, can I also record ATSC while both cablecards are recording? The reason I ask is because there are often times when there are 3 shows I want to watch that are all on at the same time. Otherwise I'll still use my MCE in addition to the Tivo. Thanks!

Has WSBT changed their bug in the lower-right corner? Last night during Jeopardy, I noticed that the bug is covering up the last word or two of the clues, and essentially the entire right side during Final Jeopardy (when they do the 30 seconds and the clue is small at the bottom). I looked over a previous recording from about 10 months ago, and it seems different...but it could just be me.

Has WSBT changed their bug in the lower-right corner? Last night during Jeopardy, I noticed that the bug is covering up the last word or two of the clues, and essentially the entire right side during Final Jeopardy (when they do the 30 seconds and the clue is small at the bottom). I looked over a previous recording from about 10 months ago, and it seems different...but it could just be me.

They did change it and its even more annoying now. They should just remove it altogether or at least make it more transparent.

WNDU HD has made it's appearance on DISH Network!
61.5° dish required (or "Eastern Arc" setup).

Channel 5192, mapped down to 016-00 depending on receiver settings.

Hopefully WSJV and the others will come sooner than later.

I love my Vista MCE, but sometimes I think I should just bite the big one and get a duel tuner HD Tivo. Does anyone here have the HD models and has it been worth the price of admission? How much does Comcast charge per month per cablecard? I'd also like to know if I got the duel cable card Tivo, can I also record ATSC while both cablecards are recording? The reason I ask is because there are often times when there are 3 shows I want to watch that are all on at the same time. Otherwise I'll still use my MCE in addition to the Tivo. Thanks!I've been looking at getting an HDTV + TiVO HD after the holidays and been doing research about the whole CableCard issue. Apparently, from this massive topic at TiVocommunity.com (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=316310), it should be free for first card, and a nominal fee for the second...but it seem to vary wildly from place to place. I haven't found anything yet for this specific area, though.

I *think* you can only watch/record up to two feeds at one time. A third feed wouldn't work. I think.

I've been looking at getting an HDTV + TiVO HD after the holidays and been doing research about the whole CableCard issue. Apparently, from this massive topic at TiVocommunity.com (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=316310), it should be free for first card, and a nominal fee for the second...but it seem to vary wildly from place to place. I haven't found anything yet for this specific area, though.

I *think* you can only watch/record up to two feeds at one time. A third feed wouldn't work. I think.


I wouldn't rule that capability out. I have 3 tuners in my PC, 1 analog, 2 digital and I can record on all 3 at the same time. So my thinking is if the HD Tivo's can record ATSC they already have built in tuners aside from the cablecard slots. That's why I'm wondering if the ATSC tuners would work at the sametime as the cablecards, or if the cablecards just override the built in ATSC tuner during recordings.

If it weren't for the occasional MCE hiccup and the fact I can't just add cablecard to my PC, this would all just be a non issue for me. The MCE problem is actually fairly a minor problem. I want cablecard pretty bad, but I don't have a couple of grand to burn for a new Mediacenter PC. Personally I think being forced to buy a new PC just to get cablecard is ridiculous. We have our favorite content providers to thank for that.

Phoenixfury, you have a PM.

- Trip

I love my Vista MCE, but sometimes I think I should just bite the big one and get a duel tuner HD Tivo. Does anyone here have the HD models and has it been worth the price of admission? How much does Comcast charge per month per cablecard? I'd also like to know if I got the duel cable card Tivo, can I also record ATSC while both cablecards are recording? The reason I ask is because there are often times when there are 3 shows I want to watch that are all on at the same time. Otherwise I'll still use my MCE in addition to the Tivo. Thanks!

I have a HD Tivo, but no cable cards so I can't answer the cablecard questions. I do know that you can only record 2 streams at once whether it is cable or OTA. I am very happy with my unit, although if I wanted to pay for digital cable I would get the Comcast DVR because of Ondemand.

WNDU HD has made it's appearance on DISH Network!
61.5° dish required (or "Eastern Arc" setup).

Channel 5192, mapped down to 016-00 depending on receiver settings.

Hopefully WSJV and the others will come sooner than later.

However tonight they are showing Law and Order SVU and it is NOT in HD. the HD picture is shrunk down to fit in an SD size window with space open at top and bottom, so on my HD set it is surrounded by blackspace.

on WMAQ-HD chicago it is in full HD.

what the heck ?

However tonight they are showing Law and Order SVU and it is NOT in HD. the HD picture is shrunk down to fit in an SD size window with space open at top and bottom, so on my HD set it is surrounded by blackspace.

on WMAQ-HD chicago it is in full HD.

what the heck ?
I can rarely get 33-1 out of fort wayne. So I fired up some SNL tonight and noticed it was this shrunken image on 16-1 however 33-1 is in full hd that cuts in and out on me. Boooooooooooo

I can rarely get 33-1 out of fort wayne. So I fired up some SNL tonight and noticed it was this shrunken image on 16-1 however 33-1 is in full hd that cuts in and out on me. Boooooooooooo

yep it appears WNDU is simply not broadcasting HD tonight. sigh.

It's due to occasional weather warnings. They just aren't switching back to HD in between them.

It's due to occasional weather warnings. They just aren't switching back to HD in between them.Unfortunate. Guess they need that equipment that WSBT 22 bought to do their HD crawls.

Anybody in LaPorte getting ABC 57 in HD ota? I get 25 almost all of the time.. and even 69 most of the time without any gliches but no 57 dtv.

Is the HD weather scroll on ABC 57 new? I never noticed it before. It was annoying that it beeped every time it showed up though, interrupting the show's sound.

Not sure about new ... there isn't much I watch on WBND.
But Pushing Daisies was ruined by the beeps.

Was there Closed Captioning on the OTA? It wasn't on my via DISH recording.

crvampsh- I'm in La Porte also (on the north side). I get all of the south bend channels including 25 and 69 fine except 57.1 WBND. I've nearly given up with WBND. Unfortunately I am not sure if its going to get any better after the transition in the La Porte /Michigan City area.

Also wasn't 28.2 RTN supposed to be up by December 1st? What ever happened to that??

crvampsh- I'm in La Porte also (on the north side). I get all of the south bend channels including 25 and 69 fine except 57.1 WBND. I've nearly given up with WBND. Unfortunately I am not sure if its going to get any better after the transition in the La Porte /Michigan City area.

Also wasn't 28.2 RTN supposed to be up by December 1st? What ever happened to that??

Are you doing anything to get Chicago station as well as South Bend? Since ABC via South Bend is looking like a no go I'm thinking I might need to do something about getting ABC via Chicago. What is 28.2 RTN supposed to be? I haven't heard of that.

What is 28.2 RTN supposed to be? I haven't heard of that.Wayback to 11/14:
Here is the info from the email I received.We do have plans to multicast. Our original plan was starting December 1st. But it may be delayed due to economic issues. The second channel would be the Retro Television Network. Go to their website for more info (rtnville.com). Will that have an effect on our main signal? I don't think so but I can't be sure. Keep in mind there are two main HD formats: 720p (Fox and ABC) or 720 lines per picture, progressive scan while NBC (WNDU) and CBS (WSBT) use 1080i or 1080 lines per picture, interlaced scanning. The quality is close but 720p (what we use) is considered better for action (sports) and 1080i is better for drama and other programming. Also, the way we process the signal is slightly different than WSBT and WNDU. Our system is more of a floating system with the main signal taking priority while the other two have a fixed amount of the signal assigned to one channel and the remainder going to the other channels. I hope that makes sense.

We have made changes recently that will allow us to "key" weather info over an HD signal without having to go back to SD. That is in place now. But in moving the Fox signal so we could do that, we have lost the Fox HD signal and we are working to restore that

Hmmm ... reading that again: WSJV can key text over HD, WSBT can, WBND did it last night (annoyingly dropping audio for tones) ... yet WNDU still has to drop to SD upconvert for their storm coverage?

Get with the times, Gray TV ... it's nearly 2009!

I checked out rtnville.com and 28.2 RTN looks like it will be really great! Hope it comes soon and I'll be able to get it.

Is the HD weather scroll on ABC 57 new? I never noticed it before. It was annoying that it beeped every time it showed up though, interrupting the show's sound.

The crawl is a year old. Alert tones are required by the FCC.

Anybody in LaPorte getting ABC 57 in HD ota? I get 25 almost all of the time.. and even 69 most of the time without any gliches but no 57 dtv.

You are in our Null. We have to protect to the south and west.

So I need to get ABC from Chicago then without loosing my South Bend Stations. Any easy antenna setup for this? I really don't want to do multiple antennas. Any multidirectional that would cover South Bend and Chicago from La Porte?

The crawl is a year old. Alert tones are required by the FCC.

Is there any way to mix the tones with the show's sound? At least that way we could still hear what was going on in the show.

Is there any way to mix the tones with the show's sound? At least that way we could still hear what was going on in the show.

This whole thing with weather alerts and crawls seems like a pain in the keister for the broadcasters. In hind site, it's too bad that no one had thought to have the tv manufacturers build a crawl system directly into the tv that overlays the crawl over top of the TV's display.. In my mind it would work something like this.. Let's say a hurricane is headed our way, so the broadcaster types "Hold onto your butts, a hurricane's headed your way!" Your TV picks up this message and overlays it over that broadcasters channel.. On the sound side of things the tv could make the alert tone and duck the audio for about a second or two. Well anyway like I said, a little late for that idea. LOL I don't know if it's feasable or even a good idea, but I think it would have been a heck of a lot easier than what they are doing now.

Is there any way to mix the tones with the show's sound? At least that way we could still hear what was going on in the show.

It's kinda limited in that fashion. I picked the most appropriate sound. There were some wild ones on there!! :eek:

This whole thing with weather alerts and crawls seems like a pain in the keister for the broadcasters. In hind site, it's too bad that no one had thought to have the tv manufacturers build a crawl system directly into the tv that overlays the crawl over top of the TV's display.. In my mind it would work something like this.. Let's say a hurricane is headed our way, so the broadcaster types "Hold onto your butts, a hurricane's headed your way!" Your TV picks up this message and overlays it over that broadcasters channel.. On the sound side of things the tv could make the alert tone and duck the audio for about a second or two. Well anyway like I said, a little late for that idea. LOL I don't know if it's feasable or even a good idea, but I think it would have been a heck of a lot easier than what they are doing now.

YOU SAID IT!!!! :D I tried to make it as painless as possible. The casual "just so you know" alerts show up less than lets say "there's a tornado in your backyard" alerts.

This whole thing with weather alerts and crawls seems like a pain in the keister for the broadcasters. In hind site, it's too bad that no one had thought to have the tv manufacturers build a crawl system directly into the tv that overlays the crawl over top of the TV's display.. In my mind it would work something like this.. Let's say a hurricane is headed our way, so the broadcaster types "Hold onto your butts, a hurricane's headed your way!" Your TV picks up this message and overlays it over that broadcasters channel.. On the sound side of things the tv could make the alert tone and duck the audio for about a second or two. Well anyway like I said, a little late for that idea. LOL I don't know if it's feasable or even a good idea, but I think it would have been a heck of a lot easier than what they are doing now.

That would have been perfect, done in a way similar to subtitles/cc and then you would have the option of turning it off completely or only enabling it for specific things like tornado warning or something. Maybe this is something that could be implemented in ATSC 2.0 or something?

The crawl is a year old. Alert tones are required by the FCC.Mixing the audio would give us half a chance of not missing the audio. :(

I'm glad you have alerts, but there has to be a way to make them viewer friendly.

Mixing the audio would give us half a chance of not missing the audio. :(

I'm glad you have alerts, but there has to be a way to make them viewer friendly.

I've made them as viewer friendly as physically possible.

I just thought some people here might find this article on Engadget HD of interest. This is about 29 states that will be conducting a nationwide analog shut-off test. Oh joy!

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/12/13/29-states-to-participate-in-analog-shutoff-test-next-week/

So I need to get ABC from Chicago then without loosing my South Bend Stations. Any easy antenna setup for this? I really don't want to do multiple antennas. Any multidirectional that would cover South Bend and Chicago from La Porte?

get a rotator. very simple to install. works great. Go to solidsignal.com and look for the channel master one.

Any word on how soon RTN will be airing on 28-2?

My brother called me today asking me if I was able to pick up 25.1.. I'm not having and problem getting 25.1 at all, but as of a couple days ago, he's not getting it at all, but is able to receive WCWW's analog channel. This seems really odd to me since he's able to pick up 57.1 and 69.1 somewhere in the 80% range. He's got a DTV Pal and has tried resetting it, and unplugging it for a couple of minutes.. He's even tried resetting it to factory defaults. We are puzzled. By the way my brother lives in Mishawaka if that helps.

My brother called me today asking me if I was able to pick up 25.1.. I'm not having and problem getting 25.1 at all, but as of a couple days ago, he's not getting it at all, but is able to receive WCWW's analog channel. This seems really odd to me since he's able to pick up 57.1 and 69.1 somewhere in the 80% range. He's got a DTV Pal and has tried resetting it, and unplugging it for a couple of minutes.. He's even tried resetting it to factory defaults. We are puzzled. By the way my brother lives in Mishawaka if that helps.

There is ice on 25.1's antenna causing A) Signal to leave the antenna differently, and B) A higher than normal reflection rate back at the transmitter causing the logic to "throttle it down" a bit. We're only at 65% at the moment until the ice melts and the transmitter cooperates.

There is ice on 25.1's antenna causing A) Signal to leave the antenna differently, and B) A higher than normal reflection rate back at the transmitter causing the logic to "throttle it down" a bit. We're only at 65% at the moment until the ice melts and the transmitter cooperates.

I wish more stations would send us info when they are having problems! This kept me from messing with my antenna!
THANKS,
Jim

SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING

Nice crawl on 22.1 ... the HD crawl is working nicely for the severe weather we are having. No warnings on 22.2. 22.3 Weather has the warning crawl from 22.1 on it.

16.1 dropped to SD upconvert (they could at least do widescreen above the bar on SD to get a wider picture).

28.1 is playing a SD show with a 70's style overlay.

The rest of the channels seem to be oblivious to the weather (although the storm is in Southern Elkhart county, so WBND/WCWW/WMYS are not in a warned area). WHME, WNIT and of course 18 TBN are also in the oblivious category.

SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING

Nice crawl on 22.1 ... the HD crawl is working nicely for the severe weather we are having. No warnings on 22.2. 22.3 Weather has the warning crawl from 22.1 on it.

16.1 dropped to SD upconvert (they could at least do widescreen above the bar on SD to get a wider picture).

28.1 is playing a SD show with a 70's style overlay.

The rest of the channels seem to be oblivious to the weather (although the storm is in Southern Elkhart county, so WBND/WCWW/WMYS are not in a warned area). WHME, WNIT and of course 18 TBN are also in the oblivious category.

WBND had a HD weather crawl until we took a big power hit that brought us down for a while. That system has not been restarted yet. WCWW and WMYS do not have weather crawls at this time.

My brother tells me channel 25 did come back for him.

However I can't win for losing and am my wits end.. My brother helped me reposition my antenna today which at first seemed great. MediaCenter was showing everything in the green but 25-1 and 46-1 in the yellow.. That's usually livable as long as they don't dip out of the yellow. Well all was good until my brother left. Now half my channels signals seemed to be on a roller coaster... 22 can be in the green one moment and down in the red the next.. Same with 46 as well. 25-1 is now as unstable for me as 57-1 was, but at least 57-1 is now a solid green..

I guess we'll have to turn the antenna back towards where it was before and pray we can get all of my signals to stabilize.. I sure wish I had a means of measuring the signal strength by percentage, but unfortunately neither my tv nor MediaCenter can provide that.

I am puzzled as 25, 57, and 69 are all on the same tower.. Why is it when I tune in one or two of them, I almost always lose one of these channels or any of the other local channels? Would an amp help, or a different antenna? I admit I'm getting desperate here.. Lost is coming up soon, and Smallville will also be coming off it's mid season break as well.. Please someone help before I go bald because I'm practically pulling my hair out over this.

As a reminder I live in Elkhart off of the corner of Mishawaka Road and Nappanee street.. More specific I live on Broad Street.
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I have a theory that my computer is likely the biggest problem.. Computers put out a lot of RF and I think I might be getting enough of the wrong frequency to wreck havoc on my DTV tuner cards. I'm thinking about just getting a DTV Pal DVR as that would not be subject to internal interference as my computer's DTV cards are subject to. If you guys agree that would get the job done, I'll put an order in for it as soon as I possibly can.

"My brother tells me channel 25 did come back for him."


As of yesterday at aprox 5pm 25.1 was back up in power since the ice storm caused the reduction.

So you guys can try and scan again.

Viber

My brother tells me channel 25 did come back for him.

However I can't win for losing and am my wits end.. My brother helped me reposition my antenna today which at first seemed great. MediaCenter was showing everything in the green but 25-1 and 46-1 in the yellow.. That's usually livable as long as they don't dip out of the yellow. Well all was good until my brother left. Now half my channels signals seemed to be on a roller coaster... 22 can be in the green one moment and down in the red the next.. Same with 46 as well. 25-1 is now as unstable for me as 57-1 was, but at least 57-1 is now a solid green..

I guess we'll have to turn the antenna back towards where it was before and pray we can get all of my signals to stabilize.. I sure wish I had a means of measuring the signal strength by percentage, but unfortunately neither my tv nor MediaCenter can provide that.

I am puzzled as 25, 57, and 69 are all on the same tower.. Why is it when I tune in one or two of them, I almost always lose one of these channels or any of the other local channels? Would an amp help, or a different antenna? I admit I'm getting desperate here.. Lost is coming up soon, and Smallville will also be coming off it's mid season break as well.. Please someone help before I go bald because I'm practically pulling my hair out over this.

As a reminder I live in Elkhart off of the corner of Mishawaka Road and Nappanee street.. More specific I live on Broad Street.
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I have a theory that my computer is likely the biggest problem.. Computers put out a lot of RF and I think I might be getting enough of the wrong frequency to wreck havoc on my DTV tuner cards. I'm thinking about just getting a DTV Pal DVR as that would not be subject to internal interference as my computer's DTV cards are subject to. If you guys agree that would get the job done, I'll put an order in for it as soon as I possibly can.

Well and all the antenna's are not exactly in the same place on the tower either. Between position and different RF patterns may lead to better signal on some and not others.

Well and all the antenna's are not exactly in the same place on the tower either. Between position and different RF patterns may lead to better signal on some and not others.

Sorry HVS, I just felt like I had to vent a little. My little vent is only the tip of the iceberg compared to what's coming in February though. I just hate that my TV can get all of the channels with out a problem, but my one and only recording device can't with out voodoo and kicking puppies. I'm at a point where I feel like trying to get my computer to get all of the channels is a lost cause and that I'll have to invest in something like the DTV Pal DVR in order to be able to record all of the local channels. I'm just praying that I won't be throwing away $250 on something that puts me right back where I started. That would be awful.

Sorry HVS, I just felt like I had to vent a little. My little vent is only the tip of the iceberg compared to what's coming in February though. I just hate that my TV can get all of the channels with out a problem, but my one and only recording device can't with out voodoo and kicking puppies. I'm at a point where I feel like trying to get my computer to get all of the channels is a lost cause and that I'll have to invest in something like the DTV Pal DVR in order to be able to record all of the local channels. I'm just praying that I won't be throwing away $250 on something that puts me right back where I started. That would be awful.

I have a HDTivo with an antenna. The tuners in this unit are as sensitive as any others that I have. The big drawback with Tivo is the monthly fee. But compared to any other HD recorder that I have had experience with, the Tivo is so easy to use, and always works. I now can watch Netflix streaming movies, Youtube videos, and many other audio and video sources from the web. I paid around $260 for it on Buy.com. I think Tivo offers a money back warranty so you can try it out and get all your money back if you don't like it.

WCWW and WMYS do not have weather crawls at this time.

Hopefully we can keep it that way :)

Happy New Year everyone!! Let's hope 2009 brings us the local channels in HD on DISH Network before my contract expires. Otherwise, it's churn baby churn.

There is ice on 25.1's antenna causing A) Signal to leave the antenna differently, and B) A higher than normal reflection rate back at the transmitter causing the logic to "throttle it down" a bit. We're only at 65% at the moment until the ice melts and the transmitter cooperates.

I was hoping when 26.1, 26.2, 26.3 26.4, were receivable again along the coast that the "good folks" at 25.1 had FINALLY decided to stop jamming 26. But it was to good to be true. Nature temporarily made them do the right thing, obviously they have NO intention fixing the problem they created.

Why isn't 25.1 broadcasting on the same rf channel as 69 as it does not put out an HD signal??

To those you say I am to harsh, you should know that 26 encouraged us to invest in antennas and equipment to watch the SOX and the BULLS on 26.1 in HD and we could until 25.1. The investment was wasted.

Suppose you were an Irish fan, and WNDU gave a waiver to another station to broadcast on its frequency. And this second station block all your reception of all ND games, how would you feel? Of course this would never happen as the folks at WNDU are NOT that irresponsible. That's what the "good people" at Weigel have done to us along the lake for over a year.

Reading that took some translation ...
Apparently you are complaining about WCIU, which is currently operating their digital signal under special temporary authority on channel 27 with an ERP of 15.1 kW @ 510m and a directional pattern that ends their service area (41dBu) just east of LaPorte.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS620965.html

WCIU has a construction permit pending to raise power to 590 kW @ 473m but the coverage area still will end east of LaPorte (and will be cut back in Michigan).
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1251184.html

WCIU has until August 25, 2011 to build out their full power facility. It appears that it will be built out as part of a build out for WMEU-LD 46 (WMEU-CA's companion facility).

If you are East of Michigan City expect service on an "as available" basis. WCWW-LD owns the license for using digital channel 27 in that area now.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209538.html

As for why WCWW isn't using WMYS' digital channel (23)? Channel 23 is a much more limited signal. There is a deep "null" in the signal affecting viewers to the southeast of South Bend. Giving up these viewers would not be a good thing.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209326.html

Each LP station was given an opportunity to file for a companion channel for each license they held. Weigel filed and received three licenses designed to do the best for each station (WCWW being a non-directional largest coverage, WBND being directional cutting out coverage toward Chicago where WLS has ABC coverage and WMYS having the smallest coverage area).

Perhaps a different channel arrangement would have worked (move WCIU back to channel 26?) but it is what it is until someone decides to file for a change. The only change I see pending is an odd one ... Channel 69 wants to move their analog to the vacated channel 34. While analog LPs can survive past February 17th it seems odd to move to "somebody else's" channel. If they get permission I wonder how the station will be marketed? Two channels "34" in a market or will WMYS be 69.1 analog 34?

The future will be interesting for the three Weigel South Bend station after WSBT takes them over. Perhaps there will be more shifts.

As far as I'm aware, WCIU has not used that 15 kW STA for a long time. They went to full power a while ago, mid-2006 I think, and should be operating at 160 kW.

- Trip

As far as I'm aware, WCIU has not used that 15 kW STA for a long time. They went to full power a while ago, mid-2006 I think, and should be operating at 160 kW.

- Trip

We are full power and are operating at 160kw from Sears Tower.

Reading that took some translation ...
Apparently you are complaining about WCIU, which is currently operating their digital signal under special temporary authority on channel 27 with an ERP of 15.1 kW @ 510m and a directional pattern that ends their service area (41dBu) just east of LaPorte.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS620965.html

WCIU has a construction permit pending to raise power to 590 kW @ 473m but the coverage area still will end east of LaPorte (and will be cut back in Michigan).
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1251184.html

WCIU has until August 25, 2011 to build out their full power facility. It appears that it will be built out as part of a build out for WMEU-LD 46 (WMEU-CA's companion facility).

If you are East of Michigan City expect service on an "as available" basis. WCWW-LD owns the license for using digital channel 27 in that area now.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209538.html

As for why WCWW isn't using WMYS' digital channel (23)? Channel 23 is a much more limited signal. There is a deep "null" in the signal affecting viewers to the southeast of South Bend. Giving up these viewers would not be a good thing.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209326.html

Each LP station was given an opportunity to file for a companion channel for each license they held. Weigel filed and received three licenses designed to do the best for each station (WCWW being a non-directional largest coverage, WBND being directional cutting out coverage toward Chicago where WLS has ABC coverage and WMYS having the smallest coverage area).

Perhaps a different channel arrangement would have worked (move WCIU back to channel 26?) but it is what it is until someone decides to file for a change. The only change I see pending is an odd one ... Channel 69 wants to move their analog to the vacated channel 34. While analog LPs can survive past February 17th it seems odd to move to "somebody else's" channel. If they get permission I wonder how the station will be marketed? Two channels "34" in a market or will WMYS be 69.1 analog 34?

The future will be interesting for the three Weigel South Bend station after WSBT takes them over. Perhaps there will be more shifts.

We can't move back to 26 as WKOW in Madison has their DTV on 26. We have too many interferrence problems with them now.

Each LP station was given an opportunity to file for a companion channel for each license they held. Weigel filed and received three licenses designed to do the best for each station (WCWW being a non-directional largest coverage, WBND being directional cutting out coverage toward Chicago where WLS has ABC coverage and WMYS having the smallest coverage area).

Perhaps a different channel arrangement would have worked (move WCIU back to channel 26?) but it is what it is until someone decides to file for a change. The only change I see pending is an odd one ... Channel 69 wants to move their analog to the vacated channel 34. While analog LPs can survive past February 17th it seems odd to move to "somebody else's" channel. If they get permission I wonder how the station will be marketed? Two channels "34" in a market or will WMYS be 69.1 analog 34?

I don't know what the coverage is/was supposed to be, but 26.1 etal were rock solid (24/7) here up and down the coast in Michigan until 25.1. And if you remember 26-DT had to agree to let 25-DT interfere with its signal. Had they both not been own by Weigel there would probably been a null to limited the interference. We were able to receive both 26 and 25 (using rotor)during the cut back in 25's output.

It sounds as though you think the problem is permanent, if I am reading you correctly as neither intends to change frequencies. I suspected as much - once you create a problem it is much easier to say that's the way it is than to fix it.

Weigel (on 26 analog) use to advertise if you could see our signal your going to be able to watch the SOX and Bulls in HD, if you could receive digital signals. Well a group (from New Buffalo to Benton Harbor) of us bought better antennas and some even put them up (not having used 1 in years) and we got great HD games. Word spread and more friends setup to view 26-DT. Once 25.1 came along all we get is a great analog of 26 (obviously not for long). This is not what Weigel advertised and now they are skipping town.

It may be what it is, but not right.

Anyway thanks for the replies, even if the news is bad, NEVER shoot the messenger.

We are full power and are operating at 160kw from Sears Tower.Hmmm ... for some reason the FCC accepted but didn't grant the license to cover for that increase.

General Information: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=71428
Applications: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=71428

The license to cover was BLCDT-20060525ADR accepted 5/26/2006.
Always fun when the FCC misses something. :D

I don't know what the coverage is/was supposed to be, but 26.1 etal were rock solid (24/7) here up and down the coast in Michigan until 25.1.The maps above were intended to show you what the coverage is and is intended to be. Sorry if you misunderstood.
It sounds as though you think the problem is permanent, if I am reading you correctly as neither intends to change frequencies. I suspected as much - once you create a problem it is much easier to say that's the way it is than to fix it.There are limited frequencies to move to. As noted by hvs10trk, WCIU can't go back to 26. Perhaps WSBT will move WCWW to another channel but there is no immediate solution for your problem on the horizon.
Weigel (on 26 analog) use to advertise if you could see our signal your going to be able to watch the SOX and Bulls in HD, if you could receive digital signals. Well a group (from New Buffalo to Benton Harbor) of us bought better antennas and some even put them up (not having used 1 in years) and we got great HD games. Word spread and more friends setup to view 26-DT. Once 25.1 came along all we get is a great analog of 26 (obviously not for long). This is not what Weigel advertised and now they are skipping town.It does appear that marketing got out of control. The old 26 analog had coverage of Berrien County. The new digital on channel 27 does not ... even before "25.1" Berrien County should not have been considered coverage area in digital.
Anyway thanks for the replies, even if the news is bad, NEVER shoot the messenger.Thanks for the kind words. It would be nice to be able to get the channel ... and you still may be able to ... but I wouldn't expect it to be any better than the challenges you have today.

Hmmm ... for some reason the FCC accepted but didn't grant the license to cover for that increase.

General Information: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=71428
Applications: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=71428

The license to cover was BLCDT-20060525ADR accepted 5/26/2006.
Always fun when the FCC misses something. :D

You'd be surprised how often that happens. There are so many stations whose active facilities are listed as "archived." At the same time, STAs which expired YEARS ago are still listed as active.

I really wish someone would straighten out the FCC database.

- Trip

Will rf25 be clear in the South Bend area after the end of analog?

Will rf25 be clear in the South Bend area after the end of analog?As a low power station, WCWW does not have to turn off their analog signal February 17th. Until the FCC sets an end date for low power analog stations WCWW can continue to broadcast in analog on channel 25 as long as they like.

Once WCWW decides to turn off their analog it should free up the channel. WRTV out of Indianapolis, IN, WEEK out of Peoria, IL, and WOGC Holland, MI, will be using channel 25 as a digital channel. I don't see any specific reason why 25 couldn't become the digital channel - once WCWW decides not to broadcast in analog.

Until then it is up to WCWW. They have a valid license for both stations (analog and digital). They might as well use them.

Hmmm ... for some reason the FCC accepted but didn't grant the license to cover for that increase.

General Information: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=71428
Applications: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=71428

The license to cover was BLCDT-20060525ADR accepted 5/26/2006.
Always fun when the FCC misses something. :D
Even better when they can't get the channel numbers right in the Daily Digest. :eek:

Will rf25 be clear in the South Bend area after the end of analog?

As of right now there are no plans for us (Weigel) to sign off WCWW-TV on Feb 17th. Can speak for WSBT whenever they get ahold of the channel.

As of right now there are no plans for us (Weigel) to sign off WCWW-TV on Feb 17th. Can speak for WSBT whenever they get ahold of the channel.

Does WCWW-TV have anything to do with TV Guide on Screen (TVGOS) transmissions? WNIT has been transmitting via analog, but now CBS stations are to transmit via digital. I have Comcast cable in Goshen, IN and I think my analog host channel for TVGOS was channel 5. Isn't that WCWW? If so, will they be transmitting digital as well?

As of right now there are no plans for us (Weigel) to sign off WCWW-TV on Feb 17th. Can speak for WSBT whenever they get ahold of the channel.Licenses are not easy to get ... giving up a broadcast outlet would not be a good idea. Especially an analog one that will be one of the few stations out there for non-converted TVs in about six weeks.

It is another one of those "mysteries of the FCC" but the transfer applications filed back in August: WBND was granted in about a month (September 26th) and the other two remain pending.

WMYS has applied for a displacement to move their analog to the vacant channel 34. What will happen to WBND analog? Will a displacement be filed next month after all the other channels shift around or will it simply stay on 57 until someone lights up a new data service (and displace then)?

Is this a new form of Musical chairs with the tv stations?

Is this a new form of Musical chairs with the tv stations?That is about as good as a description as any. Fortunately the public station numbers are not changing, so it doesn't matter if WNDU is using 16 or 42 it will be 16.1 and WSBT will be 22.1 even after they move their digital from 30 to 22. But there is a lot of shuffling going on.

I wonder if some day we will see a frequency swap where the display numbers change with the station (for example, if WSBT and WNDU exchanged frequencies 22.1 would move to 42 and 16.1 would move to 22)?

It will be interesting to see who else will enter the marketplace. How saturated is it? Will we see a new channel 30 digital or will one of the existing LPs snatch it up? Or is it even available post transition?

The shuffle is just beginning. :D

How saturated is it? Will we see a new channel 30 digital or will one of the existing LPs snatch it up? Or is it even available post transition?

The shuffle is just beginning. :D

Using the WSBT tower as my search coordinates, and tossing out channels 2-6, it leaves 26, 33, 46 or 48 (whichever WHME isn't on), and 49.

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=channel&zipcode=&latitude=41.617&longitude=-86.217

- Trip

Using the WSBT tower as my search coordinates, and tossing out channels 2-6, it leaves 26, 33, 46 or 48 (whichever WHME isn't on), and 49.

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=channel&zipcode=&latitude=41.617&longitude=-86.217

- Trip49 is WBND LD (ABC 57). Wouldn't it be nice to upgrade that from a LD to a DT. :D

Nice charts.

I had actually forgot that low power analog will remain after Feb 17. I haven't watched an analog station in years (except Millwaukee channel 6 (Millwaukee), when both 6-DT and 11-DT (Green Bay) are too weak for a Packers game).

Reading the forum I often wonder what kind of system those that report problems receiving 25-DT. I can always get it if I wanted it, just wish I could turn it off. Obviously I am much further form the source than many reporting problems.

Perhaps we along the lake get/or had received 26-DT because most of us live on a bluff or dunes well above the lake, except those in New Buffalo. Even my oldest PC tuner got 26-DT (prior to 25-DT) and it is a very poor receiver compared to the tuners in any TV. It is amazing that we on the coast are out of the coverage area, we all got it solid.

I understand what you are saying about not wanting to give up a license. When 25 analog finally leaves is it that hard for 25-DT to return to rf 25 (is it a regulatory nightmare)? Is it the same if they were to move to rf 26?

Perhaps we along the lake get/or had received 26-DT because most of us live on a bluff or dunes well above the lake, except those in New Buffalo. Even my oldest PC tuner got 26-DT (prior to 25-DT) and it is a very poor receiver compared to the tuners in any TV. It is amazing that we on the coast are out of the coverage area, we all got it solid.One thing that would help would be to refer to stations in some other way. Call letters would be nicest ... the 25.1 and 26.1 references you used before could be translated ... but both stations are actually broadcasting on digital channel 27 ... not 25-DT or 26-DT.

(The two channels are WCIU-DT "26.1" Chicago and WCWW-LD "25.1" South Bend ... both transmitting on channel 27.)

You got WCIU before WCWW went on the air and when WCWW has problems because the lake is a nice reasonably flat path from the Sears Tower transmit site to your home. I'm surprised you're not getting other Chicago stations better but it is likely you are receiving interference from Grand Rapids market stations that actually cover your area. Just like WCWW now covers your area.

I understand what you are saying about not wanting to give up a license. When 25 analog finally leaves is it that hard for 25-DT to return to rf 25 (is it a regulatory nightmare)? Is it the same if they were to move to rf 26?Not a nightmare but modifying antennas without a benefit isn't a first choice. If I were WCWW I would only change the signal if and when it benefits WCWW's coverage.

The regulatory nightmare will come if WCWW, WBND or WMYS attempt to get a full power signal on one of the channels Trip mentions above. They will have to get the channel added to the table of allotments.

The regulatory nightmare will come if WCWW, WBND or WMYS attempt to get a full power signal on one of the channels Trip mentions above. They will have to get the channel added to the table of allotments.

That's actually easier than you might think. I've already written up a document to have an allocation made in my area once the FCC starts accepting those. :D It took about an hour and most of that was doing distance checks to show the allocation actually fits.

- Trip

That's actually easier than you might think. I've already written up a document to have an allocation made in my area once the FCC starts accepting those. :D It took about an hour and most of that was doing distance checks to show the allocation actually fits.And then what? Competing applications? Auctions? It is amazing how some areas can go from "nobody asked" to multiple competing applications once an allotment is made. :)

It looks like the next issue will be fill in translators to fill in analog areas lost because the digital signal doesn't fill the same area. I suppose WCIU could get one for Bridgeman / Benton Harbor since their analog coverage went that far (if a frequency is available).

Weigle had channel 12 which is now in Berrien Springs (with a digital CP for channel 10). They sold that station off in 2001.

Curiosity, but do you have a tool where one specifies the channel and all the co/adjacent channels to that channel are drawn on a map (preferably filled) to show where a new allocation can be placed?

And then what? Competing applications? Auctions? It is amazing how some areas can go from "nobody asked" to multiple competing applications once an allotment is made. :)

Oh yeah, that part won't be fun, but you only mentioned the allocation process. That part's easy. =)

Curiosity, but do you have a tool where one specifies the channel and all the co/adjacent channels to that channel are drawn on a map (preferably filled) to show where a new allocation can be placed?

Go back to that search page I linked, and go to the bottom. It'll let you choose any channel and map the stations on that channel and the adjacents. I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for, I might be misinterpreting.

- Trip

Anybody having more than usual problems with reception on 57-1?

Go back to that search page I linked, and go to the bottom. It'll let you choose any channel and map the stations on that channel and the adjacents. I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for, I might be misinterpreting.I was thinking of drawing the minimum separation distances as circles from existing allocations to see where in an area a station could be located. For example, looking at your chart from the WSBT tower and focusing on channel 26. From the WSBT tower WCCU Urbana is 126 miles away and the allocation requires 122 miles. If I would have picked a location five miles closer to Urbana the channel would not be available. WSBT's location is only 7 miles east of having a conflict with WCIU Chicago. Channel 25 fails at that location because WRTV is 3 miles too close.

A lot can change in a few miles. Getting an allocation a few miles away from the initial target can open some doors and shut others. Something graphical to see where a station would have to find a tower or buy/lease land would be interesting.

I actually have a Windows program that will do that for FM stations, but nothing for TV. It's not a bad idea, I do that by hand sometimes. Definitely something for me to think about, though I'd have to get the guy who coded it to implement it since I'm certainly not good enough at coding to get it done! :D

- Trip

Anybody having more than usual problems with reception on 57-1?

I can't get it most of the time! Comes in verry spotty! Live 2 miles west of the airport just off Edison Rd.
My best solid lodcal stations are 16-1, 22-1, 22-2, 22-3, 34-1, 34-2 and 69-1
My best Chicago stations Digital are 5, 7, 9, 11, 32, 38, 44, 50, and a few others that pop in once in a while like 10!
50 foot tower with the biggest Winegard vhf/uhf antenna with a small amp to help overcome coax loss.
Jim

You got WCIU before WCWW went on the air and when WCWW has problems because the lake is a nice reasonably flat path from the Sears Tower transmit site to your home. I'm surprised you're not getting other Chicago stations better but it is likely you are receiving interference from Grand Rapids market stations that actually cover your area. Just like WCWW now covers your area.

Sorry about the channel references I know that both 26.1 and 25.1 are on 27rf. And actually we do get all Chicago stations except 26.1, 26.2, 26.3, 26.4 and 26.6. What I can't always get the Milwaukee and/or Green Bay station doing the Packers. I know I am well out of their coverage area but usually one or both cities stations are fine except in middle of winter.

The funny thing is, even pulling stations from as far away as GB the only interference problem we have is on rf 27. WPWR (50) Chicago and WLUK Milwaukee are on the same frequency but turning the rotor allows reception of either. Same with WBAY (2) Green Bay and WMYS (69) and many others

I suppose what I'll have to do is get a very directional antenna to address the issue. Which has many issues including having to adjust the direction of the antenna much more often and cost. Right now 5 out of Chicago is so strong reception is fine regardless of direction. I suppose it may be stepping on another channel I have never seen so maybe rf 27 isn't my only conflict.

Thanks again for you responses. I think I taken up enough of your time - I only started this because for a little while I thought the problem had been solved (when 25.1 had to reduce power). Now I guess I have to live with it or spend more money.

No problem ... I wouldn't be here if I didn't have the time to visit.
And it is always good to discuss TV! :D

I can't get it most of the time! Comes in verry spotty! Live 2 miles west of the airport just off Edison Rd.
My best solid lodcal stations are 16-1, 22-1, 22-2, 22-3, 34-1, 34-2 and 69-1
My best Chicago stations Digital are 5, 7, 9, 11, 32, 38, 44, 50, and a few others that pop in once in a while like 10!
50 foot tower with the biggest Winegard vhf/uhf antenna with a small amp to help overcome coax loss.
Jim

I have an aunt who wants to see the digital channels out of Chicago. She has the Zenith converter box, but can't seem to pull in those Chicago stations even though she's always been able to with her tower antenna.

Any suggestions?

What exactly are the digital numbers for 5, 7, 9, 11, 32, 28, 44 and 50?

Thanks for any replies!

What exactly are the digital numbers for 5, 7, 9, 11, 32, 28, 44 and 50?Until February 17th ...
5=29, 7=52, 9=19, 11=47, 32=31, 28=58 South Bend, 44=45, 50=51

After February 17th ...
7=7, 28=28 South Bend

There are other stations in the Chicago market - but for the "TV" channels you asked about that should help. Check the Chicago thread for more info.

Until February 17th ...
5=29, 7=52, 9=19, 11=47, 32=31, 28=58 South Bend, 44=45, 50=51

After February 17th ...
7=7, 28=28 South Bend

There are other stations in the Chicago market - but for the "TV" channels you asked about that should help. Check the Chicago thread for more info.

Thanks!

Now, to figure out why she can see the channels without her converter, but with her converter she can't pull in those channels.

Anybody?

I take it she can see the ANALOG stations without the converter?

Digital signals vary. Some may be at lower power than they eventually will be ... others will be interfered with by existing analog stations. Watching analog with a little static is a whole lot easier than catching a distant digital signal ... and for the most part we're outside of the coverage area for Chicago stations.

I take it she can see the ANALOG stations without the converter?

Digital signals vary. Some may be at lower power than they eventually will be ... others will be interfered with by existing analog stations. Watching analog with a little static is a whole lot easier than catching a distant digital signal ... and for the most part we're outside of the coverage area for Chicago stations.

Right, she can see the Analog stations out of Chicago without the converter very clearly. I'm hoping that once February rolls around and everyone is on high power that she'll be able to get them, otherwise, I'm never gonna hear the end of it. :D

She just keeps telling me to take off the converter so she can watch those Chicago stations and I keep telling her no, you have to adapt and realize that you may never be able to see them again, unless you're moving to Illinois....

Does anybody know when Directv is going to get all the locals in HD?

Depending on how quick my auto deposit go's through, I may order my DTV Pal DVR tomorrow night. I don't remember where I read it, but I'm sure I read that it gets it's EPG both OTA or TV Guide. OTA is a given, but I'll probably go with TV Guide if that really does exist.

Well anywho, I'm wondering if the local area guide data is reliable enough to trust my DVR recordings on. More importantly, I need to know which channels have EPG issues. These are the local channels I get in the Elkhart area..

WNDU 16, WSBT 22, WCWW 25, WSJV 28, WNIT 34, Some relgous channel I forget exists half the time.. 46?, WBND 57, and WMYS 69. Of course I didn't include any of the sub channels, this is just a run down of what I get.

My main concern is for channel 57 as this channel is the main reason I'm buying this DVR. It's the only channel my PC won't deal with well, but my tv picks up fine.. I admit I'm taking a bit of a gamble, but it's still a win win even if it doesn't work out the way I hope.. I'm already running into programming conflicts because there are more than 2 shows on at a time I want to record.. With that said having 4 HD OTA tuners to record on is going to be nice!

As far as TVGOS is concerned, you might try calling WSBT and see if they carry it. Co-owned Schurz station WDBJ in Roanoke does carry it, but that's no guarantee it's carried on WSBT.

- Trip

As far as TVGOS is concerned, you might try calling WSBT and see if they carry it. Co-owned Schurz station WDBJ in Roanoke does carry it, but that's no guarantee it's carried on WSBT.

- Trip

I wasn't sure how that worked.. I thought TV Guide would just work over the internet through the ethernet connection. I didn't realize that could be carried by local channels.. Does any of the DTV Pal set tops allow you to choose TV Guide, or the OTA EPG per channel?

As far as TVGOS is concerned, you might try calling WSBT and see if they carry it. Co-owned Schurz station WDBJ in Roanoke does carry it, but that's no guarantee it's carried on WSBT.

- Trip

I contacted TV Guide on Screen and was told that they have requested WSBT to install their TV Guide inserter but I'm not sure if an agreement has been reached yet.

My DTV Pal box has it's own on screen guide but it also says that you can bring up the TV Guide one also! The Guide on the the DTV PAL box has seemed to be very detailed and accurate. I did not try the TV GUIDE one as the PAL one works very good for me.
Jim

According to the RabbitEars site (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos), the TV Guide EPG is not available in the South Bend - Elkhart DMA. My TR-40 never picks it up but uses the PSIP data instead.

According to the RabbitEars site (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos), the TV Guide EPG is not available in the South Bend - Elkhart DMA. My TR-40 never picks it up but uses the PSIP data instead.

When a station is not listed on my site, it means I have no data for it, not that it's not carrying it. Only stations denoted with the red X are confirmed as not carrying TVGOS.

- Trip

You're website shows South Bend as rank #107 in the US. I always thought it was up in the 80's?

You're website shows South Bend as rank #107 in the US. I always thought it was up in the 80's?

Check the FAQ. I don't use Nielsen's ranking system following their threats legal action against Wikipedia. I generate my own ranks.

- Trip

Check the FAQ. I don't use Nielsen's ranking system following their threats legal action against Wikipedia. I generate my own ranks.

- Trip

Yeah, sorry I missed that. I read the FAQ and your blog post. Thats too bad that they have to act like that but it definately is not surprising at all. Thank God not everyone has the 'their' archaic mindset.

Is anyone else watching WSBT news more now that it is in HD? I know I have. I used to watch WNDU, but it looks like crap compared to WSBT especially when they have the crawl.

WNDU, what's the point of watching your channel when it uses only 1/2 of the screen on a widescreen TV? Do you realize that you risk that losing your an important demographic by neglecting this problem?

I'm not saying WSBT is the without faults. They have some lighting issues. The set appears a little too dark. I'm sure they are still working everything out.

Is WNIT Digital's off the air?

Is WNIT Digital's off the air?It looks like it's back.

Is anyone else watching WSBT news more now that it is in HD?Yes. It helps that now pretty much all of their programming is HD and they are better at controlling HD and SD (I can remember a few times watching a program that was supposed to be in HD but wound up 4:3 on the digital channel). Their scroll is nicer...the red bar is definitely a big help.

Yes. It helps that now pretty much all of their programming is HD and they are better at controlling HD and SD (I can remember a few times watching a program that was supposed to be in HD but wound up 4:3 on the digital channel). Their scroll is nicer...the red bar is definitely a big help.

WNDU is way behind WSBT now :)
Jim

Get WSBT DT on DISH Network (or at least DirecTV) and I'll agree.

Only WNDU & WSJV in HD on DirecTV ... only WNDU in HD on DISH.

It is a shame that the company that has done the most for local HD production isn't cooperating to allow their signal on satellite. I can watch 22-1 OTA, but I'd rather watch via satellite.

I can watch 22-1 OTA, but I'd rather watch via satellite.I'm more than satisfied to receive our locals off our rooftop TV antenna. The only reason I can see for preferring to receive locals via satellite is adding tuners for conflicting TV shows (like "House" and "Two and a Half Men" on Mondays). Disadvantages would be weather outages and yet another 5-6 seconds delay on top of the delays introduced by the local DTV processing (New Years came quite a bit later on WNDU-HD via Dish than my NBS radio clock). I'll stick with my UHF Yagi, thank you very much.

I realize that everybody may not have good reception of all of our locals, however, so it would be nice if the two DBS companies provided all the Digital locals at some point.

I prefer my Comcast. I get all the local HD channels, plus over 40 other HD channels, and there are never outages for things like weather.

Has anyone had problems with the audio being slightly off lately? I get my locals HD through OTA and have a Sammy DLP. It looks like I'm watching a Kung Fu movie.:)

Has anyone had problems with the audio being slightly off lately? I get my locals HD through OTA and have a Sammy DLP. It looks like I'm watching a Kung Fu movie.:)

Any particular station?

Any particular station?
It's not a particular station. Just a show here and there. If I changed the channel, the other channels were fine. So, I didn't think the problem was with my TV. I was wondering if anyone else had this problem. It's irritating.

I prefer my Comcast. I get all the local HD channels, plus over 40 other HD channels, and there are never outages for things like weather.

How much do you pay for Comcast HD?

Get WSBT DT on DISH Network (or at least DirecTV) and I'll agree.

Only WNDU & WSJV in HD on DirecTV ... only WNDU in HD on DISH.

It is a shame that the company that has done the most for local HD production isn't cooperating to allow their signal on satellite. I can watch 22-1 OTA, but I'd rather watch via satellite.

What's the secret to get WNDU in HD on DISH? I'm not getting it in HD.

What's the secret to get WNDU in HD on DISH? I'm not getting it in HD.The secret is to have a dish aimed at 61.5 for HD.

How much do you pay for Comcast HD?

It depends on what features you get. Try looking it up on their website.

The secret is to have a dish aimed at 61.5 for HD.

Great. I suppose I have to have a tech come out and do that?

It's not a particular station. Just a show here and there. If I changed the channel, the other channels were fine. So, I didn't think the problem was with my TV. I was wondering if anyone else had this problem. It's irritating.

Well welcome to the digital world where anything is possible. :eek: This could go a couple of ways. I would be quick to blame your TV since it happens to many channels, but I have seen different syndicators screw up the lipsync during their encoding. Are there some particular shows you notice are "repeat offenders"?

Great. I suppose I have to have a tech come out and do that?If you can't install a dish yourself that would be the solution. I've installed/reinstalled my dishes as needed (I believe I'm up to my 7th or 8th dish install due to personal preferences).

It isn't a hard install and dishes are cheap on eBay ... or a local installer can help.

If anyone can let me know whether WHME/46 turned off its analog OTA signal, I would appreciate it. It was scheduled to end on 1/16, by way of the transition report, but I can't find any indication of this on their website.

Thank you.

It is gone.

I just got my DTVPal DVR and so far all looks good! I can't really say a lot as far as picture stability as that I just hooked it up. I can say that signal strength looks good across the board with my lowest signals being in the 80's. I'll post what I'm getting for signal strength tomorrow. The picture looks great, but there's just a twinge of something not quite right.. I think it might have something to do with using the component cable versus HDMI.. Maybe it's psychological.. I just can't quite put my finger on it. HVS might be happy to know that 25, 57, and 69 seemed to work fine with out incident on this tuner / DVR.

Well I'm off to bed, I'll post those numbers when I get up in the am!

I just got my DTVPal DVR and so far all looks good! I can't really say a lot as far as picture stability as that I just hooked it up. I can say that signal strength looks good across the board with my lowest signals being in the 80's. I'll post what I'm getting for signal strength tomorrow. The picture looks great, but there's just a twinge of something not quite right.. I think it might have something to do with using the component cable versus HDMI.. Maybe it's psychological.. I just can't quite put my finger on it. HVS might be happy to know that 25, 57, and 69 seemed to work fine with out incident on this tuner / DVR.

Well I'm off to bed, I'll post those numbers when I get up in the am!

Sweet!! I'm writing this one down on my calendar!!:D

Hey Phoenixfury, I wish you good luck with the timers on your DTVPal DVR. Right now, I see that WNDU-DT, WSBT-DT, and WSJV-DT are on the money with the clocks on their PSIP, but WWCW-LD, WNIT-DT, WBND-LD, and WMYS-LD are all about 30-40 seconds fast. WHME-DT is one hour ahead!

Hey Phoenixfury, I wish you good luck with the timers on your DTVPal DVR. Right now, I see that WNDU-DT, WSBT-DT, and WSJV-DT are on the money with the clocks on their PSIP, but WWCW-LD, WNIT-DT, WBND-LD, and WMYS-LD are all about 30-40 seconds fast. WHME-DT is one hour ahead!

This shouldn't be too bad an issue. By default the DVR is set to record a couple of minutes and a couple of minutes after a program. I'm thinking I might bump that window up to 4 minutes before and after across the board. As for WHME.. I barely notice that channel even exists sometimes. However I have noticed that WNIT hasn't been updating it's guide data.. That's not just my DVR, my TV hasn't been updating WNIT either.. I wonder what's up with that?

Now as for my signal strength. Just as a reminder I live in Elkhart off of Mishawaka road and Nappanee street.

16.1 WNDU 96
22.1 WSBT 88
25.1 WCWW 85
28.1 WSJV 96
34.1 WNIT 93
46.1 WHME 90
57.1 WBND 90
69.1 WYMS 76

Across the board I think my signal strength looks pretty good. This will likely change when I readjust the antenna again to get Media Center to pick up the channels I lost when I was aiming to improve WBND's reception. I suspect this won't have as much impact on my DVR as it will the Media Center.

Just FYI about the DVR's EPG, it's no where near as elegant as Media Center's EPG, but it should get the job done. However TVGOS does not appear to be working in my area, so I'm at the mercy of the broadcasters EPG data until TVGOS is working in my area.

I have also had a problem with audio sync that seems to be a random problem. I have Directv but I do not think that is the reason.

This shouldn't be too bad an issue. By default the DVR is set to record a couple of minutes and a couple of minutes after a program. I'm thinking I might bump that window up to 4 minutes before and after across the board. As for WHME.. I barely notice that channel even exists sometimes. However I have noticed that WNIT hasn't been updating it's guide data.. That's not just my DVR, my TV hasn't been updating WNIT either.. I wonder what's up with that?

Now as for my signal strength. Just as a reminder I live in Elkhart off of Mishawaka road and Nappanee street.

16.1 WNDU 96
22.1 WSBT 88
25.1 WCWW 85
28.1 WSJV 96
34.1 WNIT 93
46.1 WHME 90
57.1 WBND 90
69.1 WYMS 76

Across the board I think my signal strength looks pretty good. This will likely change when I readjust the antenna again to get Media Center to pick up the channels I lost when I was aiming to improve WBND's reception. I suspect this won't have as much impact on my DVR as it will the Media Center.

Just FYI about the DVR's EPG, it's no where near as elegant as Media Center's EPG, but it should get the job done. However TVGOS does not appear to be working in my area, so I'm at the mercy of the broadcasters EPG data until TVGOS is working in my area.

Just received my DTV Pal DVR a couple days ago as well and signal strength is good on mine also. Regarding TVGOS, I emailed Macrovision and they have contacted WSBT about installing a TVGOS inserter, but no word yet as to whether WSBT has agreed to do so.

However I have noticed that WNIT hasn't been updating it's guide data.. That's not just my DVR, my TV hasn't been updating WNIT either.. I wonder what's up with that?I was wondering if it was an issue due to the loss of WNIT's Administrative offices due to a fire several days ago, but I think WNIT has had this problem for longer than that.

Of course, if you're not a subscriber, you have no right to complain... ;)

I was wondering if it was an issue due to the loss of WNIT's Administrative offices due to a fire several days ago, but I think WNIT has had this problem for longer than that.

Of course, if you're not a subscriber, you have no right to complain... ;)I have not seen OTA guide data on 34 in at least a month ... although, to be fair, I don't check regularly (I normally get EPG via satellite and have to power up a converter box to see what they are really sending).

I appreciate that 34 is still transmitting 34. For a while they had a problem with transmitting the right channel number and transmitted 35.1 and 35.2 until someone noticed and kicked it back to 34.1/34.2 (until the next failure).

Just FYI, but I see some of WNIT's guide data has returned. I just checked my EPG and see there is guide data for WNIT all the way to 1am. I'm thinking that all of the guide data from WNIT just hasn't cycled through yet. Hopefully this means their guide data has sticks around a while longer. :)

It appears the audio dropout/fizzle problems are happening on ABC57 and CW25 again.

Happened during both Lost and Smallville

It appears the audio dropout/fizzle problems are happening on ABC57 and CW25 again.

Happened during both Lost and Smallville

They've never stopped. It happens every week on at least one show or another.

They've never stopped. It happens every week on at least one show or another.

I could have sworn it stopped happening during smallville sometime last fall, but maybe I was wrong.

A few weeks ago on a Sunday I noticed an audio dropout on WGN 9.1 while watching Jericho on the CW. The dropout was almost the same as the ones I have seen previously on 25.1. I don't know if they are related but I was really surprised to see it on the Chicago CW channel as well.

I recorded Smallville on both my Media Center PC and my new DTVPal DVR. I hadn't watched it on my PC yet, but the DVR exposed something I hadn't seen in a long time on 25.1.. I saw what appears to be white scrambled flashes. These would occur every few minutes and they seemed to be consistently timed. Also 26 minutes into Smallville, the audio dropped out again. After this post I'll check my PC recording of Smallville and see if it exhibits the same behavior. One more thing I think it may be worthwhile to note. My DVR gave me a warning that part of the program may ha
e not recorded do to signal loss.. I never see any such warning on my Media Center PC. I don't know if that means anything, but it might help.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the PC, I couldn't find the exact spot where the audio dropped out, but I was thinking it was about 26 minutes into the show. However the white flashes were present on the PC as well. Looks like that pesky old problem has made a return.

The dropout I heard was in the scene where Tess and Lana were discussing Lex at the Isis Foundation and Lana revealed ... well you'll have to watch the show. :)

I watched it recorded OTA on my DISH Network ViP-622 DVR. I've already cleared the space. The past two program weeks the program failed to record due to reception problems.

The dropout I heard was in the scene where Tess and Lana were discussing Lex at the Isis Foundation and Lana revealed ... well you'll have to watch the show. :)

I watched it recorded OTA on my DISH Network ViP-622 DVR. I've already cleared the space. The past two program weeks the program failed to record due to reception problems.

That sounds about right. Now I believe I am wrong about the time slot the audio drop out happened, but it did happen.

By the way, the DTVPal DVR is based on the same DVR you have. The only thing that bugs me is there's not season pass recording option on the DTVPal.. Do you get a season pass with your VIP-622? For the most part, I'm pretty happy with my new DVR. :)

Oh I should mention this.. As I watched Lost (on the DVR) the other night, I could hear a bit of a fizzle through out the audio hear and there. It wasn't real distracting, but I did notice it was there.

By the way, the DTVPal DVR is based on the same DVR you have. The only thing that bugs me is there's not season pass recording option on the DTVPal.. Do you get a season pass with your VIP-622? For the most part, I'm pretty happy with my new DVR. :)It depends on what you consider a "season pass". These are not Tivos, to use their terminology can be confusing.

I CAN set up a recording of a program on a channel that will record that program on that channel regardless of when it airs during a season. I'd consider that enough of a "season pass" to catch all shows. (It can be set to all, new or M-F/daily settings as well if I want to limit what is recorded.)

There is also a "DishPASS" on the satellite DVRs that allows you to capture programs by title either on a specific channel or regardless of channel. But I find that the DishPASS catches too much of the wrong thing so I don't use it.

It depends on what you consider a "season pass". These are not Tivos, to use their terminology can be confusing.

I CAN set up a recording of a program on a channel that will record that program on that channel regardless of when it airs during a season. I'd consider that enough of a "season pass" to catch all shows. (It can be set to all, new or M-F/daily settings as well if I want to limit what is recorded.)

There is also a "DishPASS" on the satellite DVRs that allows you to capture programs by title either on a specific channel or regardless of channel. But I find that the DishPASS catches too much of the wrong thing so I don't use it.

Yes, that's what I meant. The DTVPal is timer based.. To me this is more of an advanced version of the good ol' VCR timer.. This works well until your show moves to a different time slot or day. Hopefully Dish will be nice and release an update that at least works with name based recordings, but I wouldn't count on it. I'd still highly recommend the DTVPal DVR as an alternative to Tivo for ATSC broadcasts.

I just got a response from Macrovision about the TVGOS service for my area. Here is the response I got.

"There was a known issue in your area. But has been resolved, as of 01/21/09. Please advise if the listings have returned."

Unfortunately for me this still isn't working. I even tried changing to South Bend zip codes and rebooted the DVR, but the TVGOS service still isn't working for me.. Is this working at all for anyone in the South Bend area and if so, what is your zip code?

still no TVGOS for me...

Are any of the local stations still going to make the switch Feb. 17th or now wait till the new June deadline??

Are any of the local stations still going to make the switch Feb. 17th or now wait till the new June deadline??

WSJV. WNIT and WHME don't count since they're already digital-only.

- Trip