Come on HVS, we know you've got deep pockets. :-P~

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/22/motorolas-new-pro-encoder-makes-1080p-broadcast-a-breeze/

Actually 25 and 58 look just fine in HD as they are. If anything, we can only hope WNDU would take notice of this bad boy.. Anything would be an improvement at this point.

Nice. 1080p wont make it to OTA anytime soon. Still a big fan of our Harmonics encoders.

Yeah 25 and 57's picture quality is fine, but I'm still waiting for 5.1 audio.

Yeah 25 and 57's picture quality is fine, but I'm still waiting for 5.1 audio.

Are you also seeing flashes during the CW network broadcast stuff? I'm not sure if my Vizio is just doesn't like 25, or if there really is a flashing issue with 25.. I still see those stupid flashes, but only during CW broadcasts.

I probably should redact that statement. I just watched the first minute or so of Smallville and so far no flashes....

Are you also seeing flashes during the CW network broadcast stuff? I'm not sure if my Vizio is just doesn't like 25, or if there really is a flashing issue with 25.. I still see those stupid flashes, but only during CW broadcasts.

I probably should redact that statement. I just watched the first minute or so of Smallville and so far no flashes....

Yeah I saw them all the time during smallville. Forgot about them until tonight.

Yeah I saw them all the time during smallville. Forgot about them until tonight.

I spoke to soon. :-(

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2623/3954311755_8a101b5266.jpg

Oh crap! Of course it only surfaces again after I thought I might of jumped the gun on this one.. The frame you see here is what makes the screen to appear to flash. It's always one frame that appears disjointed.

Yes I know it's blurry, apparently the camera in my new phone doesn't take quite a good of a pic as my old one did. However just so HVS knows, this happened about 5 minutes into Smallville.

I have noticed the flashes also on CW25. All local programming is fine. The flashes ONLY appear during CW network programming - not during local breaks or local shows.

If someone has it recorded on their DVR, can you make a quick movie of it and post it. I'm curious to see what the whole sequence looks like. Videotaping the screen would be ok. Try to stay away of cell phone movies.

If someone has it recorded on their DVR, can you make a quick movie of it and post it. I'm curious to see what the whole sequence looks like. Videotaping the screen would be ok. Try to stay away of cell phone movies.

Sorry HVS, but other than the crappy camera in my phone, all I have is an old 1.3 megapixel Logitech Fusion webcam pro which apparently isn't much better than a cell phone camera. However I think the video clip I just shot will pretty much show you what's been happening. As I played it through I also played back over the flicker and advanced 1 frame at a time until it got to the flicker frame.. I set on that for a few seconds then advanced some more, then backed it up so you could see it again as it's happening.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/phoenixfury/3956636780/

I didn't know how to embed the video, so you'll just have to click on the above link.

Nice demo, phoenixfury. I counted the side-shift three times before the "Smallville" opening credits.

I also saw a number of times where the screen cut for one frame to a series of scan lines. Here's an example during Oliver's cage fight sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FghYNGtPxho
(hmmm, YouTube may take some time to process my video, so try again later if it doesn't work right away)
(Okay, it's up now)

Good demo as well Foxbat. Yeah I saw those as well!

Sorry HVS, but other than the crappy camera in my phone, all I have is an old 1.3 megapixel Logitech Fusion webcam pro which apparently isn't much better than a cell phone camera. However I think the video clip I just shot will pretty much show you what's been happening. As I played it through I also played back over the flicker and advanced 1 frame at a time until it got to the flicker frame.. I set on that for a few seconds then advanced some more, then backed it up so you could see it again as it's happening.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/phoenixfury/3956636780/

I didn't know how to embed the video, so you'll just have to click on the above link.

Works for me. Good camera. Strange problem.

I just fixed my LCDTV (died back in December, but just found an extremely easy fix) anyway, I just did a QAM scan on comcast and got the following results:

http://i38.tinypic.com/10dbczd.png
(I couldn't figure out what 121.7-121.11 were, they were playing paid programming)

My question is, do these channels stay on these numbers or jump around once and a while (I think I heard that once) If they change channel #s, how often is that (will I need to rescan every day?) Also, would I get any different results choosing HRC or IRC rather than STD cable?

I'm currently on standard cable, so I'm glad to at least get some HD cable channels, even if most are locals, since those would come in better than OTA anyway.

The only thing I don't like about this TV, is it has no optical out to recieve 5.1 audio from the channels that support it, while my old CRT does. (But I guess that doesn't matter for 25 and 57 anyway :rolleyes:)

The PIP channels are kind of cool because you can change the audio track using the MTS button on your remote for each channel displayed.

I just fixed my LCDTV (died back in December, but just found an extremely easy fix) anyway, I just did a QAM scan on comcast and got the following results:

http://i38.tinypic.com/10dbczd.png
(I couldn't figure out what 121.7-121.11 were, they were playing paid programming)

My question is, do these channels stay on these numbers or jump around once and a while (I think I heard that once) If they change channel #s, how often is that (will I need to rescan every day?) Also, would I get any different results choosing HRC or IRC rather than STD cable?

I'm currently on standard cable, so I'm glad to at least get some HD cable channels, even if most are locals, since those would come in better than OTA anyway.

The only thing I don't like about this TV, is it has no optical out to recieve 5.1 audio from the channels that support it, while my old CRT does. (But I guess that doesn't matter for 25 and 57 anyway :rolleyes:)

The PIP channels are kind of cool because you can change the audio track using the MTS button on your remote for each channel displayed.

Does your TV pull in any guide PSIP guide data for these channels? I remember when I tried it (over a year ago) they didn't bring in any guide data, and none of these channels were in those channel positions.

My question is, do these channels stay on these numbers or jump around once and a while (I think I heard that once) If they change channel #s, how often is that (will I need to rescan every day?)

They do change occasionally, but not very often. I don't check often, but I know WGNHD has been on the same channel for a year or more.

Does your TV pull in any guide PSIP guide data for these channels? I remember when I tried it (over a year ago) they didn't bring in any guide data, and none of these channels were in those channel positions.

Only for the locals, all the others don't list the channel name or guide data. Also, I think those channels I have as (unknown) might be constant ads at all times for some reason.

They do change occasionally, but not very often. I don't check often, but I know WGNHD has been on the same channel for a year or more.

I see. Thanks for the info.

Speaking of Comcast QAM, Is FOX 28's audio out-of-sync for anyone else on Comcast?

Speaking of Comcast QAM, Is FOX 28's audio out-of-sync for anyone else on Comcast?

I watched Heroes tonight instead of House, so idk.

Is anyone seeing what I'm seeing on Channel 34 HD?
We have Directv with a HD receiver.
I was watching the News Hour with Jim Lehrer, for a few minutes last night, and at the top of the picture, I could see what looked like horizontal white lines once in a while.
Then I started the watching the National Park series, which had been recorded, and I could see the same thing. It was especially noticeable when the camera would be panning down.
I haven't noticed it on any other channel.

Is anyone seeing what I'm seeing on Channel 34 HD?
We have Directv with a HD receiver.
I was watching the News Hour with Jim Lehrer, for a few minutes last night, and at the top of the picture, I could see what looked like horizontal white lines once in a while.
Then I started the watching the National Park series, which had been recorded, and I could see the same thing. It was especially noticeable when the camera would be panning down.
I haven't noticed it on any other channel.Yes, I have been seeing this corruption in the upper portion of the picture for some time (months) now. If they fade to black, the top of the screen will "pulse" approximately once a second. It distracts from what has been another wonderful Ken Burns documentary.

I'm seeing this OTA on both my Dish ViP receivers' and the HDTVs' built-in ATSC tuners.

Yes, I have been seeing this corruption in the upper portion of the picture for some time (months) now. If they fade to black, the top of the screen will "pulse" approximately once a second. It distracts from what has been another wonderful Ken Burns documentary.

I'm seeing this OTA on both my Dish ViP receivers' and the HDTVs' built-in ATSC tuners.

I have also been seeing this for sometime. Wasn't sure till now if it was channel 34 or my antenna,I assume now since I'm not the only one seeing it that it is channel 34 causing the reception problem.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if it was Channel 34 or Directv.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if it was Channel 34 or Directv.
Is it OK if I quote both of you in an e-mail to WNIT?

I have also been seeing this for sometime. Wasn't sure till now if it was channel 34 or my antenna,I assume now since I'm not the only one seeing it that it is channel 34 causing the reception problem.
I was talking to a lady tonight who told me that she was seeing this problem OTA.
She was watching the Parks special on 34.1. She switched to 34.2 and this noise or whatever we're seeing disappeared. .

I was talking to a lady tonight who told me that she was seeing this problem OTA.
She was watching the Parks special on 34.1. She switched to 34.2 and this noise or whatever we're seeing disappeared. .Yes, I should have been more clear that this is only an issue on the HD PBS feed on 34-1, not the SD feed on 34-2.Is it OK if I quote both of you in an e-mail to WNIT?That's fine with me. Thanks for asking...

Yes, I should have been more clear that this is only an issue on the HD PBS feed on 34-1, not the SD feed on 34-2.That's fine with me. Thanks for asking...

Another observer -- I can't remember when 34-1 started doing HD top-of-the-screen tearing noise, but it has been there a long time. It seems to get worst and very noticeable on scenes that pan, however, it is always there ever so slightly on most frames. I have OTA RS75 uhf roof top antenna, Motorola signal amp on the mast, decent signal.

The best OTA HD I ever saw was when WNDU dropped 16.2 and encoded entire spectrum into 16.1 during the Olympics. Now that was an eye popping treat ...

Is fox 28 still going to carry This Tv on a subchannel?

Is fox 28 still going to carry This Tv on a subchannel?

I emailed them a while back and asked whether they were going to carry ThisTV and RTV. This was the answer:

Well... it’s possible these channels will be coming, I’m not sure how quickly.

We are working with both networks – and some of our sister stations currently carry them – but there is no beginning date set yet. We’ll let you know, don’t worry.



Sincerely,



Ed Kral

Station Manager

FOX 28



Clear as mud
Al

I thought I remembered last year that it was supposed to happen around November of this year, but I could be wrong. Then again things could have easily changed since then.

I have recently moved from the Kalamazoo MI area where my Terrestrial Digital DB8 antenna could pick all the major OTA stations in Grand Rapids, MI. ABC, FOX, CBS, PBS, NBC. I moved the antenna to a roof top location about 20 feet plus off the ground in Three Rivers, MI. I can pick up WWMT (CBS) out of Gull Lake, the PBS stations WGVK, and WSBT out of South Bend.

My problem is I cannot get any of the major Stations out of South Bend (except CBS) even though I should get them. I am trying to get WNDU (42), WNIT (35), and WSJV (28). I though I could receive these stations since they are all close together, on the same compass points, and same distance. I get no OTA signal for them. There is a big tree in my neighbors yard that blocks my antenna. It is still full of leaves. I get WSBT so its puzzling why I cannot get the others.

Is there anything special or problematic about getting all of these missing OTA signals?

I'm not at my computer right now, but if you go to rabbitears.info and look up the South Bend market, you probably find that WSBT has much higher TX power than the rest. TX antenna height may also be a factor.

It is the height that makes the difference. WSBT is half the power of WNDU but 150ft higher. Similar reception differences have been noted in Chicago.

Well, you can tell there's a weather front moving in. Actually getting WCWW pretty steadily here in Angola. Probably won't last too long, though.

My OTA WSJV HD signal is horrible tonight. Breaking up all over the place.

Still seeing the flashes on Smallville.. Is this something we are kind of stuck with? Which if this is the case, it's really unfortunate.

Still seeing the flashes on Smallville.. Is this something we are kind of stuck with? Which if this is the case, it's really unfortunate.

In addition to the flashes, does anyone else get occasionally 5-7 second audio dropouts? They seem to average 1-2 per show.

In addition to the flashes, does anyone else get occasionally 5-7 second audio dropouts? They seem to average 1-2 per show.

Yes, I'm half way through watching this weeks Smallville, but there was one audio drop out so far.

Still seeing the flashes on Smallville.. Is this something we are kind of stuck with? Which if this is the case, it's really unfortunate.

Not stuck with it. It's on the "to-do" list.

Not stuck with it. It's on the "to-do" list.

I trust you are taking care of it. Just hadn't heard anything as far as addressing these issues. I hope I don't sound too critical, I'm just looking forward to a flash free CW 25. :-) Since they have been happening for so long, I was kind of starting lo lose hope that these problems ever will be fixed. I know you are doing the best you can and believe me, I appreciate you. :-) I know they'll get fixed, I'm just getting grouchy is all.

Anyone have sound issues on FOX during the playoff game while watching it on DirecTV? Man it was annoying. It had awful blip and whoopee cushion effects going on about every 10-30 seconds. It was gone by the seventh inning. Anyone else confirm this?

I believe WSJV's issues are not unique to DirecTV. I've had problems with the OTA signal dropping from time-to-time. I had a number of DVR events on my ViP 211 "ruined" due to these dropouts.

Dish Networks' encoder puts up a yellow screen for five seconds or so when it loses the signal.

I believe WSJV's issues are not unique to DirecTV. I've had problems with the OTA signal dropping from time-to-time. I had a number of DVR events on my ViP 211 "ruined" due to these dropouts.

Dish Networks' encoder puts up a yellow screen for five seconds or so when it loses the signal.

Yeah my OTA WSJV signal was dropping out all over the place last Friday during Dollhouse.

I noticed WNIT 34-1 had a black border around its HD picture today. I don't watch this channel much so I don't know if this just started. I called them but the woman who answered the phone could not get the engineering department to answer her page. She said she would pass along the information. A couple of hours later I checked 34-1 and it still looked the same.

I noticed WNIT 34-1 had a black border around its HD picture today. I don't watch this channel much so I don't know if this just started. I called them but the woman who answered the phone could not get the engineering department to answer her page. She said she would pass along the information. A couple of hours later I checked 34-1 and it still looked the same.

The news at 7 pm is in full screen HD.

I noticed WNIT 34-1 had a black border around its HD picture today. I don't watch this channel much so I don't know if this just started. I called them but the woman who answered the phone could not get the engineering department to answer her page. She said she would pass along the information. A couple of hours later I checked 34-1 and it still looked the same.

They also still have that problem with the picture tearing up at the top of the screen. It was there when they ran the National Parks Series and I see it was still there when the Herbert Hoover: Landslide program was on.

I noticed WNIT 34-1 had a black border around its HD picture today. I don't watch this channel much so I don't know if this just started. I called them but the woman who answered the phone could not get the engineering department to answer her page. She said she would pass along the information. A couple of hours later I checked 34-1 and it still looked the same.

I talked to an engineer at WNIT this afternoon and he told me they don't have the ability to record programming in HD so anything that they time shift will not be in HD.

I very seldom watch TV when it's actually live, (thanks to the DVR) but occasionally I'll just let it play live and I have been blasted by some over aural pumped commercials. Although this doesn't really affect me that much, I'm glad that someone's taking care of this.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/10/29/members-of-the-atsc-agree-on-measure-to-curb-loud-commercials/

Somehow I think our little group will care about this. Don't forget to set your VCR, DVR, or just plant yourself in front of the TV for V on ABC tonight. :-)

I just checked my DVR and it appears that 25, 57, and 69 are all on correct time and that the guide data actually matches what is actually airing. Thank God! I was a little worried I'd have to preform voodoo on my DVR to get it to record V tonight.

Somehow I think our little group will care about this. Don't forget to set your VCR, DVR, or just plant yourself in front of the TV for V on ABC tonight. :-)

I just checked my DVR and it appears that 25, 57, and 69 are all on correct time and that the guide data actually matches what is actually airing. Thank God! I was a little worried I'd have to preform voodoo on my DVR to get it to record V tonight.

:) Thank you. I needed some good news today.

:) Thank you. I needed some good news today.

You're welcome, anytime!

You're welcome, anytime!

Although my Chicago time is one hour ahead. hmmmm.........

Anyone have any news on channel 46-1 switching to actual channel 46 instead of 48?

Anyone notice that WBND 57 is now in HD on DirecTV? This morning while flipping through I noticed WBND and the CW were in HD. WOW, finally. Perhaps my emails to both WBND and DirecTV have helped. I sent messages to both in the last month.

Also I notice that Detroit and Cincinnati SportsNets are listed as package channels. Although neither of them are coming up on my Choice Xtra. Hmmmm.

I just got a QAM Tuner card for my Windows 7 Media Center, and it only finds the locals, none of the others my tv found. Those channels didn't seem to list the actual station names, so that may be the problem. It's not a huge problem for me, as I don't really watch any of those channels, but they should have shown on the scan.

Also, I had to manually modify WSJV-DT as it was 28.2 with a slightly different name on the QAM station, and so was unknown to media center, I renamed it to 28.1 and told it which channel to pull guide data from.

Anyone notice that WBND 57 is now in HD on DirecTV? This morning while flipping through I noticed WBND and the CW were in HD. WOW, finally. Perhaps my emails to both WBND and DirecTV have helped. I sent messages to both in the last month.

Thank you! Bring on Lost.

Thank you! Bring on Lost.

Season 5 on Blu-Ray soon! Great hold over until January. Yes, bring on LOST!

Lost is beautiful in HD. Also if you happen to have a Netflix account and any Netflix capable streaming device, you can see all 4 seasons of Lost in HD for free! Ok, so it's more like HDish.. (Meaning not quite 720P) but it's far better looking than broadcast in standard def.

Aside from Lost, V is absolutely beautiful in HD. I'm terrible with character names of new shows so please bare with me. One of the best visuals I've ever seen in HD was when the female FBI agent wakes up out of bed and she opens her beautiful blue eyes. The entire image was soft but to be honest it was hard to focus on much else other than her eyes and who would want to look away from those peepers? :-) WB and ABC have outdone themselves on the visuals of this show..

I agree about V and Lost, but they both would be so much better with 5.1 sound. I swear our CW and ABC have got to be almost the last digital channels that don't provide 5.1. It honestly should not be hard to provide a bitstream of the 5.1 dolby digital provided by the satellite source. I've been asking about 5.1 for probably 3 years. They say it's on the to do list, but there's no reason it should have taken this long.

On 5.1 sound... yea its pathetic they aren't already. I remember a guy on here who represented WBND about three years ago saying it was coming soon. I'm sure it will happen when then Duke Nukem games comes out. :)

On 5.1 sound... yea its pathetic they aren't already. I remember a guy on here who represented WBND about three years ago saying it was coming soon. I'm sure it will happen when then Duke Nukem games comes out. :)

lol nice

Yeah, this is the main reason I wanted the WSBT deal to work out, as I'm guessing they would have easily gotten that set up.

5.1 and the audio fizzling out just about every episode are my only complaints about 57 and 25 though. The picture quality is great. (aside from the occasional flicker)

Didn't ABC (and ESPN) go with SRS Circle Surround™ (http://www.srslabs.com/content.aspx?id=230)? Or, did ABC relent and switch to Dolby Labs?

And WTF WSBT? You ran two minutes worth of political ads over the opening of CSI: Miami. Unacceptable.

Edit: And again, at 10:11pm

10:12, lost of signal.

*dink* *dink* *dink* "Hello! McFly..."

Yeah WSBT messed up a couple times during Big Bang Theory as well.

And I don't know anything about Circle Surround, but it simply sounds like a decoder, not an encoder, so it would have no impact on what sound we get, it would be something specific to your sound system, not the station.

ATSC is supposed to be mpeg2video + Dolby Digital audio. Currently, WBND and WCWW downmix the 5.1 Dolby Digital stream they get from the national satellite, and output it as Dolby Stereo. I have no idea why the can't simply bitstream the source Dolby Signal to their multiplexer.

Here's how I think it should be done. Obviously, it's probably slightly more complex than this, but for the most part, I think this probably explains it well enough:

http://i36.tinypic.com/20if9zs.png

If anything, I would think it would be easier to set this up that what they have now, plus it would also fix the audio drop out problems both stations have as well.

They would probably have to introduce a delay somewhere in the audio to keep it sync'd. It is amazing how many milliseconds can be lost in processing - and how bad it can be being a few too many milliseconds off.

They would probably have to introduce a delay somewhere in the audio to keep it sync'd. It is amazing how many milliseconds can be lost in processing - and how bad it can be being a few too many milliseconds off.

True, but that probably shouldn't bee too hard I'd imagine.

Yeah WSBT messed up a couple times during Big Bang Theory as well.

And I don't know anything about Circle Surround, but it simply sounds like a decoder, not an encoder, so it would have no impact on what sound we get, it would be something specific to your sound system, not the station.

ATSC is supposed to be mpeg2video + Dolby Digital audio. Currently, WBND and WCWW downmix the 5.1 Dolby Digital stream they get from the national satellite, and output it as Dolby Stereo. I have no idea why the can't simply bitstream the source Dolby Signal to their multiplexer.

Here's how I think it should be done. Obviously, it's probably slightly more complex than this, but for the most part, I think this probably explains it well enough:

http://i36.tinypic.com/20if9zs.png

If anything, I would think it would be easier to set this up that what they have now, plus it would also fix the audio drop out problems both stations have as well.
ABC has several audio streams. Dolby E (5.1), Dolby 2.0, and Stereo. For us to carry both stations in 5.1 (and switch it cleanly) would require a dolby decoder and encoder for each station. And they're not cheap either!!

ABC has several audio streams. Dolby E (5.1), Dolby 2.0, and Stereo. For us to carry both stations in 5.1 (and switch it cleanly) would require a dolby decoder and encoder for each station. And they're not cheap either!!

Okay so it sounds like Dolby E is a different codec than regular 5.1 Dolby AC3? Strange that the networks would do that when they know it's going to eventually be outputted in 5.1 Dolby AC3.

At the cheapest, it looks like the Dolby E decoder would be somewhere in the $1000-2000 range, but I'm sure you can get a 5.1 Dolby AC3 encoder pretty cheap (I can even do it for free on my PC using AC3Filter)

Anyway, I wouldn't think a few thousand dollars of new equipment would have held you back for all this time. To me it sounds more like a priority issue. I think 5.1 should be near (if not at) the top of the priorities for 57 and 25.

They also have to be able to switch it, meaning the master control has to support 5.1 as well. Who knows how much that costs.

- Trip

Okay so it sounds like Dolby E is a different codec than regular 5.1 Dolby AC3? Strange that the networks would do that when they know it's going to eventually be outputted in 5.1 Dolby AC3.

At the cheapest, it looks like the Dolby E decoder would be somewhere in the $1000-2000 range, but I'm sure you can get a 5.1 Dolby AC3 encoder pretty cheap (I can even do it for free on my PC using AC3Filter)

Anyway, I wouldn't think a few thousand dollars of new equipment would have held you back for all this time. To me it sounds more like a priority issue. I think 5.1 should be near (if not at) the top of the priorities for 57 and 25.

Not that I'm defending HVS on this, but I think at this point the down economy has a lot to do with this. Please trust me when I say this but no one (I mean this in a business sense) is willing to give up any extra cash for anything right now.. This is why we haven't seen the new sub channels on 28 yet.. As long as no one's giving up any money for new equipment, I'm afraid were stuck with what we got for a while. I'd bet finding funds is on the top of HVS's todo list. Good luck with that HVS. LOL!

Okay so it sounds like Dolby E is a different codec than regular 5.1 Dolby AC3? Strange that the networks would do that when they know it's going to eventually be outputted in 5.1 Dolby AC3.

At the cheapest, it looks like the Dolby E decoder would be somewhere in the $1000-2000 range, but I'm sure you can get a 5.1 Dolby AC3 encoder pretty cheap (I can even do it for free on my PC using AC3Filter)

Anyway, I wouldn't think a few thousand dollars of new equipment would have held you back for all this time. To me it sounds more like a priority issue. I think 5.1 should be near (if not at) the top of the priorities for 57 and 25.

Dolby E is a pure digital stream that only qualified decoders handle. I believe (and don't quote me on this) that Dolby E is a more effecient way of audio distribution. As for pricing, the Dolby gear is pricier that that, at least the last time I ran across it. Sure there are 3rd party boxes out there that "may" work but we use Dolby's actual decoders/encoders for audio.

They also have to be able to switch it, meaning the master control has to support 5.1 as well. Who knows how much that costs.

- Trip
Which we have the ability.

Not that I'm defending HVS on this, but I think at this point the down economy has a lot to do with this. Please trust me when I say this but no one (I mean this in a business sense) is willing to give up any extra cash for anything right now.. This is why we haven't seen the new sub channels on 28 yet.. As long as no one's giving up any money for new equipment, I'm afraid were stuck with what we got for a while. I'd bet finding funds is on the top of HVS's todo list. Good luck with that HVS. LOL!

:)

Not that I'm defending HVS on this, but I think at this point the down economy has a lot to do with this. Please trust me when I say this but no one (I mean this in a business sense) is willing to give up any extra cash for anything right now.. This is why we haven't seen the new sub channels on 28 yet.. As long as no one's giving up any money for new equipment, I'm afraid were stuck with what we got for a while. I'd bet finding funds is on the top of HVS's todo list. Good luck with that HVS. LOL!

Of course the economy has to do with it, I'm not denying that. However, the economy was fine 3 years ago...

I guess I'm just saying, there should be a dedicated fund for saving money for this and it should be at the top of the to-do list as soon as there is enough money.

Unfortunately, what I'm guessing is over the last few years, money that could have gone to this has gone to other things instead of 5.1. As long as it's a top priority, I'm fine. I just have a hard time believing that with how long it's taken so far.

I don't know when it started, but I happen to get 46 last night and now I see they have added 46-2 to WHME. Not sure when this started, but anyone else getting this? Just curious.

Even WHME can get their subchannel going before WSJV. I noticed the new 46-2 here just a few days ago and was wondering myself how long its been on.

I got 46.2 several months ago, and then it was gone again for some time.

I'm a little disappointed at you guys. 46.2 went on last Thursday. It took you a week to notice.:confused:

As morphinapg mentioned, it was on before as an experiment and we took it down. Now we're testing again and hope to leave it on, but there are a few details to be resolved before it's permanant.

It is programming from our World Harvest Television, the same as DirecTV channel 367. At certain times of day it is a simulcast of 46.1.

I'm a little disappointed at you guys. 46.2 went on last Thursday. It took you a week to notice.:confused:

As morphinapg mentioned, it was on before as an experiment and we took it down. Now we're testing again and hope to leave it on, but there are a few details to be resolved before it's permanant.

It is programming from our World Harvest Television, the same as DirecTV channel 367. At certain times of day it is a simulcast of 46.1.

tv46engineer; Is 46-2 the same programming that used to be on channel 40.1 WHCH in Chesterton? The last i checked channel 40 was Jewelry Television but I remember when it used to be WHT programming. Is WHCH still owned by LeSEA?

I'm a little disappointed at you guys. 46.2 went on last Thursday. It took you a week to notice.:confused:
It wasn't that compelling ... :)

It is nice to have the option, especially for us without DirecTV.

As morphinapg mentioned, it was on before as an experiment and we took it down. Now we're testing again and hope to leave it on, but there are a few details to be resolved before it's permanant.
How about changing to channel 46?

It wasn't that compelling ... :)

It is nice to have the option, especially for us without DirecTV.

How about changing to channel 46?

I would post here, but you know about what I'm going to ask for anyway. :D

- Trip

I would post here, but you know about what I'm going to ask for anyway. :D
Yep ... I caught most of them last week but just caught 48 again. Check in about 15 minutes.

tv46engineer; Is 46-2 the same programming that used to be on channel 40.1 WHCH in Chesterton? The last i checked channel 40 was Jewelry Television but I remember when it used to be WHT programming. Is WHCH still owned by LeSEA?

Yes, it is the same programming that was on WHCH and yes, WHCH is still owned by Lesea. I do not know the thinking behind that change.

It wasn't that compelling ... :)

It is nice to have the option, especially for us without DirecTV.


How about changing to channel 46?

The switch back to 46 and increase in power is still in the works. You may not be aware that Lesea also owns stations in Indianapolis, New Orleans, Tulsa, Denver and Honolulu plus some low powers too. It's always a balancing act to figure out when things get done. Those decisions are made above my level. I don't know when the changes will happen in South Bend.

Do you some of you actually watch channel 46? I used to watch IU games on there before the B10 network came along. Now? Nothing... I was excited to see DirecTV added ABC57 HD last week though. That was some sweet love.

The switch back to 46 and increase in power is still in the works. You may not be aware that Lesea also owns stations in Indianapolis, New Orleans, Tulsa, Denver and Honolulu plus some low powers too. It's always a balancing act to figure out when things get done. Those decisions are made above my level. I don't know when the changes will happen in South Bend.

Not to mention the ones in Indianapolis and Denver also have permits to change channels.

- Trip

Do you some of you actually watch channel 46?
Apperently, but I'm not sure what. I always delete 46 from my on-screen guide to get the networks grouped together. I just looked and all I see is religious stuff & really old sitcoms. :confused:

WHAT? You don't watch the Lone Ranger and Tonto?

Yes, 30 years ago.

WHAT? You don't watch the Lone Ranger and Tonto?

I do. Lone Ranger, Green Acres, and Lassie.

I do. Lone Ranger, Green Acres, and Lassie.And don't forget "The Patty Duke Show" and what's that show that "I know nothing" about? Oh yeah, you can't forget "Hogan's Heroes" either lol :p :)

I did notice 46 added a sub channel, I just never got around to posting that I noticed it. :-)

Ok I got a question for you engineers. What is this all about and do you think it's going to be the big threat to OTA HD that EngadgetHD makes it out to be?

http://hd.engadget.com/2009/11/19/broadcasters-predictably-unsettled-about-fcc-taking-away-spectru/

I tuned in to Today this morning just before heading to bed (yes) and I noticed this scroll at the bottom showing local news. I was wondering how they overlayed an HD graphic like this on WNDU, I didn't think they had the capability yet (last I checked, they still did weather overlays in SD right?) Also, caught this little typo that made me chuckle :D

http://i48.tinypic.com/11hqbgi.png

I tuned in to Today this morning just before heading to bed (yes) and I noticed this scroll at the bottom showing local news. I was wondering how they overlayed an HD graphic like this on WNDU, I didn't think they had the capability yet (last I checked, they still did weather overlays in SD right?) Also, caught this little typo that made me chuckle :D

http://i48.tinypic.com/11hqbgi.png

Typically On Air branding and Weather Alert graphics are generated by different devices.

Typically On Air branding and Weather Alert graphics are generated by different devices.

What do you mean by on air branding? I don't see the difference, they're both HD image overlays. I'm not just talking the WNDU logo like during most shows.

What do you mean by on air branding? I don't see the difference, they're both HD image overlays. I'm not just talking the WNDU logo like during most shows.

On-Air branding would be station logo in the corner, local news crawling at the bottom, "You are watching" banners, stuff like that. Weather alert graphics like warning map and crawl are almost always generated by another device.

On-Air branding would be station logo in the corner, local news crawling at the bottom, "You are watching" banners, stuff like that. Weather alert graphics like warning map and crawl are almost always generated by another device.

But is that really necessary? I would think any machine capable of producing HD graphic overlays could be programmed for different uses, including weather overlays.

The Today Show overlay I've noticed for the past month or so.

For those of you who watch, please let me know if you see our "normal" video glitches this week. Please PM me, describe what you saw, and please document the time.
Thank you ahead of time and Happy Thanksgiving!

The Today Show overlay I've noticed for the past month or so.
I'm surprised to see it ... on The Today Show it is a simple banner of text with a color NBC logo. It doesn't appear on local content. It looks like it is being added by NBC's network equipment before any local switching done by WNDU.

Is anyone seeing anything like this on other programming?

Perhaps "in the future" it could be turned on for other programming and fed weather information instead of headlines, much like FOX has evolved their network equipment. But at this time, it looks like it is 100% separate from any of the video production of WNDU.

Seems that WSJV don't have any guide data yet again. I think it's been this way for a few days now. Any one else see a blank guide for 28?

Seems that WSJV don't have any guide data yet again. I think it's been this way for a few days now. Any one else see a blank guide for 28?

I've noticed 28's guide data has been missing for the past week. 28 and 34 are the worst offenders in terms of guide data disappearing.. 34's data was gone for about a week, now it's 28. I wonder why these stations have so much trouble with their guide data.

I've noticed 28's guide data has been missing for the past week. 28 and 34 are the worst offenders in terms of guide data disappearing.. 34's data was gone for about a week, now it's 28. I wonder why these stations have so much trouble with their guide data.

Course, I'm still waiting for WSJV to add RTN as a subchannel, so then I'd be set, since I get the classic subchannels in Chicago (WCIU/MeTV/MeToo/THIS) and, then as well as, RTN from WSJV 28 in South Bend! :) I'd be a happy camper then lol. :)

I noticed WSJV guide data was missing. The strange thing is I also lost WFLD FOX 32's Chicago guide data (here in La Porte) the same time that I lost FOX 28's guide data. I think its been this way for about a week now.

I'm also still waiting for WSJV to add RTN or THIS as a subchannel.

Is our clock an hour off? I can only see what's going out the door.

Is our clock an hour off? I can only see what's going out the door.

looks fine to me


btw, does anybody know if Comcast buying NBC is going to change anything?

Hey, I recorded the Alexander Toradze special off of WNIT tonight and I was so haapy to see that there was no corruption along the top of the screen like there is during other HD programs. That makes me wonder if the problem with WNIT's HD path finally got fixed.

Hey, I recorded the Alexander Toradze special off of WNIT tonight and I was so haapy to see that there was no corruption along the top of the screen like there is during other HD programs. That makes me wonder if the problem with WNIT's HD path finally got fixed.
I have my locals through Directv. What little I've watched in the last few days, I haven't seen the corruption either.
But here's what I'm seeing now. What it looks like, is when WNIT is running local SD programming, I have what looks like the normal 4:3 format with black bars on both sides.
When they go to the network for a SD program I see what looks like the 4:3 format with black bars at both sides and lighter bars (a dark gray) at the top and bottom. You have to look close to see the difference in color.
HD is fine.
This does not happen on any of the other local stations.

I made a change to CW network last night. I cautiously say it "may" have fixed the video/audio glitches during Prime time. Please let me know if you still see glitches.

I made a change to CW network last night. I cautiously say it "may" have fixed the video/audio glitches during Prime time. Please let me know if you still see glitches.

I finally got your PM that you sent recently and I just responded to it. Well anywho I'll set my DVR to record CW tomorrow night and let you know what happens.

I'm not sure what's on tomorrow (Wednesday) night, but if it's Gossip Girl or 90210, could you please pay me for this inhumane torture? Otherwise I'm more than happy to help you out. ROFL!

I just checked Zap2it's television listings and found out Gossip Girl is indeed on.. The program that fallows is The Victoria Secret's Fashion show.. I guess we aren't exactly talking SpikeTV here.. My poor DVR might catch fire.. I might for once pray for the glitches. ROFL!

I finally got your PM that you sent recently and I just responded to it. Well anywho I'll set my DVR to record CW tomorrow night and let you know what happens.

I'm not sure what's on tomorrow (Wednesday) night, but if it's Gossip Girl or 90210, could you please pay me for this inhumane torture? Otherwise I'm more than happy to help you out. ROFL!

I just checked Zap2it's television listings and found out Gossip Girl is indeed on.. The program that fallows is The Victoria Secret's Fashion show.. I guess we aren't exactly talking SpikeTV here.. My poor DVR might catch fire.. I might for once pray for the glitches. ROFL!

LOL whenever you can is cool.

Well since Smallville is over for the the year, I won't be watching CW much. Have the audio drop out problems already been fixed on ABC? Now that I think of it, I don't remember hearing them recently, although I could be wrong.

Well since Smallville is over for the the year, I won't be watching CW much. Have the audio drop out problems already been fixed on ABC? Now that I think of it, I don't remember hearing them recently, although I could be wrong.

ABC Network is on a new distribution system since this summer so it's very possible it's fixed. I'm not usually around to find out.

ABC Network is on a new distribution system since this summer so it's very possible it's fixed. I'm not usually around to find out.

Interesting, that's cool. Yeah, I just watched Scrubs and Better Off Ted from last night on ABC and didn't hear the problem at all.

I made a change to CW network last night. I cautiously say it "may" have fixed the video/audio glitches during Prime time. Please let me know if you still see glitches.

Still there... static then no audio for several seconds 15 minutes into Melrose Place on 12/08.

btw, on ABC I've been noticing these things for quite a while. Don't know if it's coming from the network or the local equipment. First off, there are 3 rows of black pixels at the top, and then 5 rows that are displaying the picture from 2 frames in the future. There are also 2 columns of black pixels on the right. The black pixels don't concern me as much as the future pixels, but I think the entire image technically should be filled. The future pixels just produce an annoying flicker at the top.

Example Image:

http://i45.tinypic.com/9sh5ch.png

I know a lot of TVs won't see this because of overscan, but I use Windows Media center so I see every pixel.

btw, on ABC I've been noticing these things for quite a while. Don't know if it's coming from the network or the local equipment. First off, there are 3 rows of black pixels at the top, and then 5 rows that are displaying the picture from 2 frames in the future. There are also 2 columns of black pixels on the right. The black pixels don't concern me as much as the future pixels, but I think the entire image technically should be filled. The future pixels just produce an annoying flicker at the top.


I know a lot of TVs won't see this because of overscan, but I use Windows Media center so I see every pixel.
Probably our processing gear. I can shave off a few lines and make it 717p. :D

Probably our processing gear. I can shave off a few lines and make it 717p. :D

But it's already 1278x717, since there are black pixels on the top and right. If you cut off the future pixels it would be 1278x712. I'd rather have them there, even if they're annoying than to lose some picture. I'd prefer to have the full 1280x720 if that's at all possible, but I wasn't sure if it was ABC's stream that was cutting off the top 3 and right 2 lines or yours.

What in the world happened during the first hour of dollhouse tonight?

What in the world happened during the first hour of dollhouse tonight?I don't know if it was FOX or WSJV, but I think they should make this week's episodes free downloads at iTunes... ;)

Oh, and the couple of scan lines issue on WBND has been there since they started operations. I've got recordings of Gray's Anatomy from last year that have this issue. If it bothers me, I turn on the overscan...

I don't know if it was FOX or WSJV, but I think they should make this week's episodes free downloads at iTunes... ;)

I think it was definitely FOX, I've talked to people from other areas who experienced the same problem.

The biggest clues were that even when the screen cut to black the FOX28 logo stayed there, and then just before it fixed itself it cut to a Fox Network test pattern.

I'm watching this weeks airing of Smallville right now. So far I've only watched up to the first set of commercials and so far no flashes or audio problems. I'll post an update if I see anything odd.

As for Dollhouse, I'm real disappointed that the first hour got so glitchy like that. I guess I'll just have to catch up that first hour on Hulu...

I thought Dollhouse got cancelled. Are you guys just curious to see how the final episodes came out?

I thought Dollhouse got cancelled. Are you guys just curious to see how the final episodes came out?

Dollhouse did get canceled, but Fox is still airing the remaining episodes. Word is the last episode will be Epitaph 2 and that's supposed to wrap up the series. Then again that's what Epitaph 1's purpose was just in case the series got canceled for the first season.

I just got done watching Smallville. For once it played back virtually glitch free! No flashes or audio defects. :-)

Unfortunately they made their way to Fox during Dollhouse this week. :-(

I just got done watching Smallville. For once it played back virtually glitch free! No flashes or audio defects. :-)

Unfortunately they made their way to Fox during Dollhouse this week. :-(

Wasn't Smallville a rerun? I thought it was over for the year.

Wasn't Smallville a rerun? I thought it was over for the year.It was a rerun but it should still have been fed from the network the same way as first run shows. Hopefully whatever fix is in will still be working when the series resumes.

Is it just my tuner or has CBS late night been glitching the last few nights? I'm using comcast QAM if that matters.

WSBT HD 22 via DISH Network has been fine for Craig's Late Late Show.

It was most likely my tuner or something idk.

I record almost every scripted program I watch on my Comcast Motorola DVR. I watch stuff of all 5 networks plus TNT, AMC, USA and a couple others. I also watch several cable news channels and ESPN/EPSN2 regularly but rarely record these.

Aside from an occasional audio dropout, most channels are ok except WNIT. Everything on WNIT has almost constant video artifacts (not sure the correct term, pixelation maybe?) in the top 1" or so of the screen.

A couple nights ago we watched a Masterpiece Theater Contemporary recorded back in October and it was doing it. Last night we watched Cranford, recorded Sunday night, and it was the same. Don't recall the last time we watched something "live" on WNIT but no other channel does this so I think it must be ch 34 and not my DVR or anything in my setup.

Anyone else experience this? It's mildly annoying but not bad enough to prevent us from watching. I have not checked the SD version to see if that is doing the same thing and I don't have an antenna hooked up so I can't check the OTA signal.

I record almost every scripted program I watch on my Comcast Motorola DVR. I watch stuff of all 5 networks plus TNT, AMC, USA and a couple others. I also watch several cable news channels and ESPN/EPSN2 regularly but rarely record these.

Aside from an occasional audio dropout, most channels are ok except WNIT. Everything on WNIT has almost constant video artifacts (not sure the correct term, pixelation maybe?) in the top 1" or so of the screen.

A couple nights ago we watched a Masterpiece Theater Contemporary recorded back in October and it was doing it. Last night we watched Cranford, recorded Sunday night, and it was the same. Don't recall the last time we watched something "live" on WNIT but no other channel does this so I think it must be ch 34 and not my DVR or anything in my setup.

Anyone else experience this? It's mildly annoying but not bad enough to prevent us from watching. I have not checked the SD version to see if that is doing the same thing and I don't have an antenna hooked up so I can't check the OTA signal.

Yes, this has been happening for some time now. I'm puzzled as to why WNIT hasn't fixed this by now. Strange problem.

I know it's been happening since WNIT ran the National Parks mini series and probably before that.
We have Directv. I've been told it shows up off the air and I believe I read an earlier post from someone who has Dish seeing it.
It seems like it's there only with the HD programs from PBS.

U-verse has been available in my neighborhood since last spring. Haven't taken the plunge yet but several of my neighbors have and love it. I am considering it strictly due to the cost savings, I have no issues with Comcast TV and the internet speed is fantastic.

Would like to hear from anyone who has switched to U-verse (mainly from Comcast but if you switched from satellite, that's fine too.) My main area of interest would be HD picture quality. Would also like to know if you can record 2 HD programs while watching a 3rd. I think I am close enough to the VRAD to do that but I would hate to give up that capability and I don't think there's any way to predict without actually hooking it up.

U-verse has been available in my neighborhood since last spring. Haven't taken the plunge yet but several of my neighbors have and love it. I am considering it strictly due to the cost savings, I have no issues with Comcast TV and the internet speed is fantastic.

Would like to hear from anyone who has switched to U-verse (mainly from Comcast but if you switched from satellite, that's fine too.) My main area of interest would be HD picture quality. Would also like to know if you can record 2 HD programs while watching a 3rd. I think I am close enough to the VRAD to do that but I would hate to give up that capability and I don't think there's any way to predict without actually hooking it up.

I have had it for just over a year now and I am very happy with it. HD quality is pretty darn close to OTA. You only have 2 HD streams at one time, so if you're recording 2, that's all you get. It will get better as time goes on. The only problem I've had and it's gotten considerably better was packet hiccups. (picture pauses and tiles) Was semi annoying at first by I rarely get them now. It's going to depend on the network in you neighborhood. Don't forget they are constantly improving their service. They also have cool features like my receivers link up with my media on my computer and I can play it from the TV! It's a little qwerky but its a great start.

I guess I get to be the first here to say... Happy New Years! Hopefully the new year will bring 100% glitch free CW25, more sub channels (hopefully with out a huge performance hit) on Fox 28, and WNIT gets their HD feed fixed. :-)

I only have one thing I hope doesn't happen. There's been talk online about the FCC thinking about getting it's grubby mitts on some of the broadcasters spectrum for wireless services. Yep they are thinking about it and lets pray they back off on this, otherwise I believe that beautiful HD spectrum we are enjoying now, is likely going to crap otherwise.

I only have one thing I hope doesn't happen. There's been talk online about the FCC thinking about getting it's grubby mitts on some of the broadcasters spectrum for wireless services. Yep they are thinking about it and lets pray they back off on this, otherwise I believe that beautiful HD spectrum we are enjoying now, is likely going to crap otherwise.


See my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17820652#post17820652) in the Grand Rapids HD board.

See my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17820652#post17820652) in the Grand Rapids HD board.

Wow, would they really do that?

I read your post and the topic "FCC Considers Shifting Some TV Airwaves to Broadband" here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1192114

All I can say is this really sounds completely ludicrous

Sorry for being a bit spammy here but.. I was wondering if anyone here (in the South Bend area) would be interested in buying my two Avermedia ATSC tuners. They are both PCI (not to be confused with PCI-e.) They are great cards, but are incompatible with my new PC as the new computer only has PCI-e slots through out. I can tell you these do an awesome job for being internal tuner cards. The system requirements don't need to be real high either. The machine I was using them in is a Athlon 64 3200 with a gig of ram.. So if you are above that with a lot of hard drive space and with the free pci slots, these will work just fine for you. Recording with both cards at the same time works flawlessly just in case there are any concerns. Again sorry for being spammy here, I just thought it would be a good idea to offer these to someone who I may see regularly on these forums. Cheers!

Phoenixfury

PS. I might consider shipping these by UPS if you are not in the area. Interested HVS? :-)

How new are they? And how are the signal meters in them? I have these Pinnacle receivers in my desktops and they seem to be 6th gen tuners but the signal meters show 0% until they have a lock when it jumps to 60%, which makes it very hard to DX with them. I might be interested in replacing them if your tuners would meet the requirements. :)

I'd gladly pay for shipping if I decided to do so, though I am not sure if I will or not.

- Trip

How new are they? And how are the signal meters in them? I have these Pinnacle receivers in my desktops and they seem to be 6th gen tuners but the signal meters show 0% until they have a lock when it jumps to 60%, which makes it very hard to DX with them. I might be interested in replacing them if your tuners would meet the requirements. :)

I'd gladly pay for shipping if I decided to do so, though I am not sure if I will or not.

- Trip

Before I saw this message, I did receive a PM from another forum member here that is interested in one of these tuners. I haven't yet responded to that inquiry just yet. I'd like to sell them both as a pair but I could split them of if need be. For you would it be all or nothing, or would 1 suffice? Your response indicates that you may be interested in both of them which my preference would be to sell them as a pair, but I don't want to be unfair to the first inquiry either. I'm probably going to have to sleep on this one. :-)

As for the info you need to know..

I ordered both of these tuners on Newegg and for the most part exclusively used them with Windows Media Center 2005 / Vista. However I had dabbled a little bit with the Avermedia media center as at the time that was the only way to try out the QAM tuner as Windows Media Center didn't support it.. However I understand under Windows 7 Media Center QAM tuning is now supported. However I've only ever checked signal strength under Windows Media Center and the way it scans is cycling one channel at a time. However if there's a good signal on a channel as it's scanning, what I would see is a row yellow or green bars.. I was never able to see a signal percentage under Windows Media Center. Avermedia Media Center might have shown a percentage, but I only ever dived into that program maybe twice in the time I've had these cards. As for reception, I have a mid sized roof antenna and I'm an average of about 30 miles away from the local stations which are in South Bend. Most channels were up in the yellow or green which is pretty darn good.

I went through my New Egg account and this is the info about the cards and the purchase dates.

Although New Egg discontinued selling this card, I think the link should have all the info you are looking for.


AVerMedia AVerTVHD MCE A180 MTVHDA18 PCI Interface - OEM
Item #: N82E16815100134

3/27/2006 6:37:28 AM
7/6/2006 9:50:35 PM

Info on Newegg's site

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100134

If I understand the letter I just got from Comcast right, clear QAM tuning is going to go bye bye.. The letter kinda cheerfully promises a "world of more".. I suspect this has something to do with unicorns. However because they want to deliver more unicorns to my area, every tv will require a digital set-top box or digital adapter on all tv's..

What I'm not clear on is if this means that they are just shutting off all of the analog channels (which I don't think that would affect clear QAM), or they will start doing that thing where they only send you one channel at a time per request from each box. If it's the latter of the two, were screwed when it comes to clear QAM! Thankfully I'll still be able to get my local broadcast OTA for recording, but I was kind of hoping to get a few perks off the cable line.

If I understand the letter I just got from Comcast right, clear QAM tuning is going to go bye bye.. The letter kinda cheerfully promises a "world of more".. I suspect this has something to do with unicorns. However because they want to deliver more unicorns to my area, every tv will require a digital set-top box or digital adapter on all tv's..

What I'm not clear on is if this means that they are just shutting off all of the analog channels (which I don't think that would affect clear QAM), or they will start doing that thing where they only send you one channel at a time per request from each box. If it's the latter of the two, were screwed when it comes to clear QAM! Thankfully I'll still be able to get my local broadcast OTA for recording, but I was kind of hoping to get a few perks off the cable line.

I'd guess it was just the analog being shut down, but I don't know. I really hope they don't shut down clear QAM as that is my main source for local HD right now, since OTA reception is really bad in my area, especially since I can't use an outdoor antenna.

I'd guess it was just the analog being shut down, but I don't know. I really hope they don't shut down clear QAM as that is my main source for local HD right now, since OTA reception is really bad in my area, especially since I can't use an outdoor antenna.

I inquired with someone with in my sister & law's family that works for Comcast. He confirmed they are just shutting off the analog, but not all of the analog. He said basically everything from 22 all the way up to 99 will be shut off. They have to keep the first 22 channels analog which is really more like 10. He said this probably won't affect clear QAM tuning.

Oh by the way fell cable customers. Feel free to drool with me. :-)

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/cetons-quad-cablecard-tuner-for-windows-media-center-gets-a-pri/

Hopefully this thing will come down in price before the end of the year.

I inquired with someone with in my sister & law's family that works for Comcast. He confirmed they are just shutting off the analog, but not all of the analog. He said basically everything from 22 all the way up to 99 will be shut off. They have to keep the first 22 channels analog which is really more like 10. He said this probably won't affect clear QAM tuning.

Phoenixfury. you do not say what Comcast market you live in. Can you share this so we can see what others are affected? I'm in the Three Rivers, MI market and we have not received any letters like that. We are behind up here and seem to be last ones to get any upgrades/ downgrades??? Thanks!

If I understand the letter I just got from Comcast right, clear QAM tuning is going to go bye bye.. The letter kinda cheerfully promises a "world of more".. I suspect this has something to do with unicorns. However because they want to deliver more unicorns to my area, every tv will require a digital set-top box or digital adapter on all tv's..

What I'm not clear on is if this means that they are just shutting off all of the analog channels (which I don't think that would affect clear QAM), or they will start doing that thing where they only send you one channel at a time per request from each box. If it's the latter of the two, were screwed when it comes to clear QAM! Thankfully I'll still be able to get my local broadcast OTA for recording, but I was kind of hoping to get a few perks off the cable line.
We received the same letter here in Berrien Springs, MI.

Before I saw this message, I did receive a PM from another forum member here that is interested in one of these tuners.

Go ahead and sell it. I don't think I can justify buying replacement tuners at this time.

- Trip

Go ahead and sell it. I don't think I can justify buying replacement tuners at this time.

- Trip

Thanks for taking my cards into consideration. :-)

As for the inquiry of which market I'm in, I'm in the South Bend market for Comcast cable.

I also want to apologize for kind of over dramatizing what the letter I received meant. I admit I jumped to the conclusion that clear QAM would probably be canned with out getting any real facts first. I'm glad I got it from someone on the inside that all they are doing is dropping most of the analog channels and clear QAM probably wouldn't be affected.

There was one point in the letter that in my opinion is a bit deceptive. They did say you would need a digital set-top box or converter on all of your tv's in order to continue receiving cable. They didn't mention in the letter that you'll still continue to receive analog channels 1-22. The point I'm making here is a lot of people only subscribe to those channels as they are only interested in getting the local channels.. Comcast in the letter is implying that you will have to get a box from them or your service will be interrupted. Also my inside Comcast contact said a lot of HDTV's are capable of picking up clear QAM with out the box.. I wonder how many people will be tricked into getting a box they don't need.. At least there's one good thing the letter mentions.. You can get two additional boxes with out the monthly service fee.. Oh wait.. If your tricked into getting that first box, wouldn't you be paying the monthly service fee on a box you don't even need? Tricky Comcast, tricky!

I just skimmed over the letter again, they say they provide two boxes at no cost.. Not two additional.. So really it's down to you might need the box, but if you are only subscribing to the first 22 channels, then this has no affect on you.. Although I still maintain Comcast makes it sound like you'll need the boxes no matter what.

Although I still maintain Comcast makes it sound like you'll need the boxes no matter what.
If Comcast had their way you would need the boxes, no matter what.
Having the boxes in your home makes it easier to sell PPVs and upgrades.

IIRC clear broadcast of OTA channels is required. I'm surprised that they are leaving as many analog channels as they are. Probably just the "lifeline" channels? 22 is a good breaking point ... IIRC that is everything below and including VHF 13. (14-22 being between VHF 6 and 7 on cable. 95-99 are in that space too if Comcast isn't relaying FM or something else there.)

It looks like there are 16 analog channels in that range now, with channel 99 included as a public access channel.
https://www.comcast.com/Customers/Clu/ChannelLineup.ashx?print=1&CGID=2353
(I'm surprised WMYS-LP is on digital 269 and not an analog channel.)

What RF channels is Comcast is using for the QAM locals?

I just got my Avermedia Duet duel tuner card (PCI-e) yesterday and this thing rocks! Ok, so quality wise it's indistinguishable from the PCI boards I just replaced. However I think this card might have stronger tuners on it as Media Center indicates full green bars (OTA) on every channel. For that reason along I am quite impressed and will be ordering another one next week for quad recording when needed. I'll probably never record 4 things at once, but this will solve those darn 2-3 channel recording / watching conflicts due to both tuners being in use.. Even when I ran 2 digital and one analog card, I'd still run into recording conflicts.. So the fourth tuner should put an end to any such problem. :-)

I'll check later to see if Avermedia Media Center works with my card or not.. I would love to see my signal strength on this card by percentage.

I didn't have much time to play around with clear QAM, but this was the first thing I tried with this board. This card did pull in all the local channels with out any problem, but didn't provide any advantage over my OTA outdoor antenna.. In fact I lost a channel 46.2 and half the channels didn't have any guide data. I was hoping some of the cable channels remained un-encrypted, but none of them showed up.. So clear QAM was absolutely no benefit to me what so ever. Sorry, I didn't happen to see what frequencies these channels were on.. I think they showed their normal OTA frequencies like 16.1, 22.2 in Media Center anyway, so I don't think I would have been able to find that out.

There's a program out there called VBSignalMeter that might work with your card and give you the strength in percent. I think it's 32-bit though, so if you have a 64-bit system it may not work. However, I have an AverMedia Volar or something like this and while it does work with VBSignalMeter, it only gives three readings (0, 60, 90, and 100). This is consistent with TSReader's behavior as well.

It'd be worth a shot if you don't want to use the AverMedia software. http://www.vboxcomm.com/vbox/VBSignalMeter.exe

- Trip

There's a program out there called VBSignalMeter that might work with your card and give you the strength in percent. I think it's 32-bit though, so if you have a 64-bit system it may not work. However, I have an AverMedia Volar or something like this and while it does work with VBSignalMeter, it only gives three readings (0, 60, 90, and 100). This is consistent with TSReader's behavior as well.

It'd be worth a shot if you don't want to use the AverMedia software. http://www.vboxcomm.com/vbox/VBSignalMeter.exe

- Trip

My new PC came with Windows 7 64-bit.. This will only work if the program can take advantage of 64-bit drivers... Otherwise it probably won't.. But as you said, it's worth a try. I think Avermedia did release a 64-bit version of their media center though.. If I can get that to work, I'll report back what my signal strength looks like.

Does anyone here happen to know if Comcast in the South Bend market supports multi-stream?

Well, for just signal measurements, VBSignalMeter is good. It doesn't do anything but give signal numbers. :)

- Trip

Thanks for taking my cards into consideration. :-)

As for the inquiry of which market I'm in, I'm in the South Bend market for Comcast cable.

I also want to apologize for kind of over dramatizing what the letter I received meant. I admit I jumped to the conclusion that clear QAM would probably be canned with out getting any real facts first. I'm glad I got it from someone on the inside that all they are doing is dropping most of the analog channels and clear QAM probably wouldn't be affected.

There was one point in the letter that in my opinion is a bit deceptive. They did say you would need a digital set-top box or converter on all of your tv's in order to continue receiving cable. They didn't mention in the letter that you'll still continue to receive analog channels 1-22. The point I'm making here is a lot of people only subscribe to those channels as they are only interested in getting the local channels.. Comcast in the letter is implying that you will have to get a box from them or your service will be interrupted. Also my inside Comcast contact said a lot of HDTV's are capable of picking up clear QAM with out the box.. I wonder how many people will be tricked into getting a box they don't need.. At least there's one good thing the letter mentions.. You can get two additional boxes with out the monthly service fee.. Oh wait.. If your tricked into getting that first box, wouldn't you be paying the monthly service fee on a box you don't even need? Tricky Comcast, tricky!

I just skimmed over the letter again, they say they provide two boxes at no cost.. Not two additional.. So really it's down to you might need the box, but if you are only subscribing to the first 22 channels, then this has no affect on you.. Although I still maintain Comcast makes it sound like you'll need the boxes no matter what.



If you look at the letter again it just states you need the adapters to continue receiving the Expanded Basic line-up. No adapter will be needed to continue to receive Basic service. I have been waiting for this to happen for months now. When this is complete we will be close to
100 HD channels!!

kb11 Having just received our "World of More letter from Comcast a few weeks ago,what is the usual time line from now until we start getting new HD channels ? I live in Valparaiso,In and just wondering if you knew.

kb11 Having just received our "World of More letter from Comcast a few weeks ago,what is the usual time line from now until we start getting new HD channels ? I live in Valparaiso,In and just wondering if you knew.



Go to the bottom of this link. A person from Joliet explains
when the letters were mailed out and when the analog
cutoffs happened.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22653344-Comcast-Chicago-Suburbs-Going-All-Digitail-92909~start=320

I just hope they decide to group all the existing HD channels together.. Granted there is the option to just view the HD listings, but I hate it when I do channel up or down I get HD, HD, SD, HD, SD, SD, SD, HD, HD, You are not authorized to view this porn, HD, SD, HD, I told you no porn for you creep!, SD, HD.. Catch my drift?

kb11-Thanks for the info,looks like we should be getting new HD channels around the end of April-right?

kb11-Thanks for the info,looks like we should be getting new HD channels around the end of April-right?


That sounds about right. If they use the same pattern as they did in the Joliet area.

Has anyone but me noticed that the lip sync is off on all programming on ABC57? The audio is behind the video just enough to make you think it might be ok but if there is fast talking it is very noticable.

This is not new but has been hapening for several weeks now. I am receiving directly off the air, and it is on several sets.

Has anyone but me noticed that the lip sync is off on all programming on ABC57? The audio is behind the video just enough to make you think it might be ok but if there is fast talking it is very noticable.

This is not new but has been hapening for several weeks now. I am receiving directly off the air, and it is on several sets.

I haven't noticed anything, although I can't say I payed attention that closely. Though I may have noticed it at least once before. At least it's not bad enough to be obvious if it is happening. I'll try to pay attention more next time I watch ABC.

Has anyone but me noticed that the lip sync is off on all programming on ABC57? The audio is behind the video just enough to make you think it might be ok but if there is fast talking it is very noticable.

This is not new but has been hapening for several weeks now. I am receiving directly off the air, and it is on several sets.

We are aware of the issue and are working to correct it. Do you see it during ABC network programming, syndicated programming, or both?

We are aware of the issue and are working to correct it. Do you see it during ABC network programming, syndicated programming, or both?


I looked closely tonight....It was off during ABC programming, the News at 11:00, and also the Insider.

I just wanted to brag that I finally got my second Avermedia Duet tuner. The installation went well, but I was darn near ready to tear my hair out because I had a rough time trying to find my (apparently misplaced) splitter. Well anyway it's all hooked up and working beautifully! This should effectivly put an end to nearly all of my recording conflicts.. Who would have ever thought 2 tuners were never enough. :-)

The only problem I have is extremely minor. The only channel that took a dip (probably the splitters fault) is channel 69. I lost one block of signal, but Media Center still shows it in the green.. All other channels are showing full signal strength.

I now have two of these bad boys in my machine.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100041&cm_re=avermedia_duet-_-15-100-041-_-Product

Has anyone but me noticed that the lip sync is off on all programming on ABC57? The audio is behind the video just enough to make you think it might be ok but if there is fast talking it is very noticable.

This is not new but has been hapening for several weeks now. I am receiving directly off the air, and it is on several sets.

I have noticed this problem for the last two years. Sometimes its worse than others, but i notice it more during primetime programming. Last year LOST had terrible lip syncing issues. Please fix this....ALSO how about 5.1 audio? Why is this so difficult to obtain and implement? I remember a tech here three years ago saying it could be any day right after 57 went HD for the first time.

ALSO how about 5.1 audio? Why is this so difficult to obtain and implement? I remember a tech here three years ago saying it could be any day right after 57 went HD for the first time.

I have also asked about this many times in the last few years, and just finally got a more specific answer this year. Apparently, the problem comes with the specific Dolby Audio decoder. It's not regular Dolby AC3, it's a different codec which is apparently very expensive. (Dolby E) The first result on Google is $4100. (DP572 Dolby E Decoder) Although this does seem quite costly for consumers, I wouldn't think it would really be all that difficult to come up with that kind of money in a business such as a TV station.

http://www.dolby.com/professional/products/broadcast/dolby-e/dp572.html

Apparently the main benefits of Dolby E are that the audio specifically matches each frame (good to keep audio synced when video is re-encoded) and the stream contains 5.1+2 channels, which is 5.1 broadcast + stereo broadcast in one stream. IMO, it would have been smarter for the network to simply go with something much more standard: M2TS Container with:
[Track 1] MPEG2 Video
[Track 2] 5.1 AC3
[Track 3] 2.0 AC3
[Track 4] Subtitles

I have noticed this problem for the last two years. Sometimes its worse than others, but i notice it more during primetime programming. Last year LOST had terrible lip syncing issues. Please fix this....ALSO how about 5.1 audio? Why is this so difficult to obtain and implement? I remember a tech here three years ago saying it could be any day right after 57 went HD for the first time.

I was not aware the lipsync was that bad. Only known about the last week or so. We'll have to sweep the airchain some night to test lipsync.

Watching Channel 57 tonight (Sunday) from Directv and no wide screen or Closed Captioning.
Other local channels are OK.

Watching Channel 57 tonight (Sunday) from Directv and no wide screen or Closed Captioning.
Other local channels are OK.

Same thing from OTA. Also, Fox 28 had major issues during prime time tonight...lots of black screen dead air & flickers.

What happened to 22-3? Why is it just showing radar?

Watching Channel 57 tonight (Sunday) from Directv and no wide screen or Closed Captioning.
Other local channels are OK.

We'll be in 4x3 again tonight. Working on the Lip Sync issue.

We'll be in 4x3 again tonight. Working on the Lip Sync issue.


So I won't be able to watch the beautiful women tonight on
The Batchelor in HD!!

What was up with the volume of the ads on 57? Commercials seemed like they were twice as loud as The Bachelor. Is it because of the work being done on lip sync?

What was up with the volume of the ads on 57? Commercials seemed like they were twice as loud as The Bachelor. Is it because of the work being done on lip sync?

We're operating on a backup airchain which has minimal audio processing. This is due to the lip sync issues we've been having. May be back to normal for tonight.

WBND is now back to normal. (for now anyways :D )

WBND is now back to normal. (for now anyways :D )

We don't want normal, we want 16:9, 5.1, in sync, with no static/dropouts. :)

We don't want normal, we want 16:9, 5.1, in sync, with no static/dropouts. :)

I thought about that after I typed that too. :D

WBND is now back to normal. (for now anyways :D )


Sound working great. No lip sync.

Last week Media center recorded the Comcast Welcome message instead of CW, and tonight it recorded Public Access 99 instead of ABC. Is this because QAM changes channels every so often? If so, I need to make sure the channels are the correct ones before I record my shows.

Last week Media center recorded the Comcast Welcome message instead of CW, and tonight it recorded Public Access 99 instead of ABC. Is this because QAM changes channels every so often? If so, I need to make sure the channels are the correct ones before I record my shows.

Didn't you know CW stood for Comcast Welcome.

Don't know if this is news to anyone or not: http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/01/25/daily.5/

- Trip

The latest episode of Smallville finally aired last night therefore I have my eye on CW25 again. I didn't see any flashes and no weird audio problems. It was nice to finally watch Smallville with out any issues to take me out of the show. I'm happy! :-)

Smallville looked good for me too (OTA HD reception).

I recently purchased an HDHomerun dual tuner for my windows 7 media center pc.
I did a scan of QAM Channels and wow, what a great thing QAM is. Now I do not need this stupid Communist Cast DVR.

I was wondering if there was a channel listing for the QAM channels that are the Music Channels ?

I am not looking for the virtual 900's DVR channel numbers but the QAM numbers themselves like 103.45 or something (just guessing). My tuner will not auto scan these.

I recently purchased an HDHomerun dual tuner for my windows 7 media center pc.
I did a scan of QAM Channels and wow, what a great thing QAM is. Now I do not need this stupid Communist Cast DVR.

I was wondering if there was a channel listing for the QAM channels that are the Music Channels ?

I am not looking for the virtual 900's DVR channel numbers but the QAM numbers themselves like 103.45 or something (just guessing). My tuner will not auto scan these.

I don't think you can tune them. If I understand this correctly, only the local broadcast channels are the only channels that are left un-encrypted which they have to be un-encrypted by law. All the other digital channels I understand are DRM'd because although you are a good citizen and pay your monthly cable bill, the content providers assume we are all thieves. Also Comcast would love nothing more than to be allowed to encyrpt the local channels and force you to use their digital set tops and DVR's.

I'll be honest, I don't know if this is entirely the case, but I've pretty much read a few sources on the net that indicated that Comcast tends to encrypt everything but the locals.

Then what will happen when they do encrypt all channels and you have a cable ready tv (you remember, a regular good ole standard tv). I still have 1 of these and it does work.
I was under the assumption that comcast no longer sends the cable signal by analog methods, but instead is completely Digital or QAM. Forcing people to use a cable box or DVR cable box is wrong.
(They also reject the technology of the "cable card" too)
I am tired of being an assumed criminal by Draconian cables companies, Record lables, and all around consumer.

Then what will happen when they do encrypt all channels and you have a cable ready tv (you remember, a regular good ole standard tv). I still have 1 of these and it does work.
I was under the assumption that comcast no longer sends the cable signal by analog methods, but instead is completely Digital or QAM. Forcing people to use a cable box or DVR cable box is wrong.
(They also reject the technology of the "cable card" too)
I am tired of being an assumed criminal by Draconian cables companies, Record lables, and all around consumer.

This is how I understand what's going on. All cable companies are required to offer all basic cable as analog up to 2013. They are also required to carry local over the air broadcasts as un-encrypted clear QAM which most tv's with digital tuners can receive. (The reason I say most is because my best friend's HDTV can't receive clear QAM.) If it hadn't happened already, when Comcast's "world of more" take effect all analog channels above channel 23 will be dropped. This means if you were receiving anything above channel 23 with out a box, you will soon need one in order to pick up anything beyond basic cable.

What this means to you personally is you'll still be able to pick up basic analog cable channels, and you'll also be able to pick up your local channels over clear QAM. Everything else will be encrypted QAM which requires a box.

I probably should note the last time I scanned for clear QAM channels, I was using Windows Media Center. Windows Media Center only displayed just the local over the air channels and that was it. I don't know if there are any other clear QAM channels available, but according to Media Center, only the local broadcast channels are available in clear QAM.

thanks for the info Pheonixfury.
I can get many channels over clear qam right now though on my HDHRun box.
I had to manually add the channels like SYFY ON QAM 104.10.
I am getting all of my regular expanded basic channels over qam in this method.
I guess I will enjoy it while it lasts, or pony up more cash for a cable card.
I refuse to get and pay for a comunist cast box.

Besides the point is becoming irrelavent. Eventually channels will be broadcast over the Internet anyway. I just heard that espn will be available streaming on the roku boxes. So that is really the futue anyhow.
Before you know it communist cast will be lobby for the removal of net nutrality and have all of us in prison forcing slavery and bondage for 1000 years.:mad:

thanks for the info Pheonixfury.
I can get many channels over clear qam right now though on my HDHRun box.
I had to manually add the channels like SYFY ON QAM 104.10.
I am getting all of my regular expanded basic channels over qam in this method.
I guess I will enjoy it while it lasts, or pony up more cash for a cable card.
I refuse to get and pay for a comunist cast box.

Besides the point is becoming irrelavent. Eventually channels will be broadcast over the Internet anyway. I just heard that espn will be available streaming on the roku boxes. So that is really the futue anyhow.
Before you know it communist cast will be lobby for the removal of net nutrality and have all of us in prison forcing slavery and bondage for 1000 years.:mad:

I guess I stand corrected in regards to being able to pick up anything other than the local channels. I was under the impression that nothing but the locals would come through when I scanned for clear QAM channels on my Media Center. I'll try running the clear QAM setup on Media Center again and see if I can pick up Syfy with the frequency you mentioned. Would this happen to be the HD freqency, or just the standard def 4x3 channel?

I guess I overlooked that you mentioned you were able to pick up Syfy this way earlier.

I just scanned QAM on Comcast and as before I got all of the local channels. I tried to enter Syfy Manually on 104.10 as you mentioned.. It didn't work for me.

I stand corrected yet again.. yeah I'm on my 3rd edit on this post alone. I went in to check the channels that can be edited and found that there are many channels that can be viewed even though they have a lock icon next to them. You are correct in that c104.10 is indeed Syfy. I'm going to have to go through and see what I am able to receive. :-)

I will make it easier for you.

Here is the HDHomeRun channel guide for our area.
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:46530#lineup_1546766

But you see, we are able to add pretty much any QAM channel either by adding it manually or editing the current one that has a lock next to it.

I was under the impression that since I am able to get the music channels on my DVR that these are on QAM.
What would be cool is to know all of the QAM frequencies that CC uses and try and see which ones are not encrypted. Supposedly that is the cablecard does, it must hold the encryption keys and the matching QAM channels.

In the link I provided you can see that many channels are listed, but not the Music channels. How awesome would it be if the music channels were like that also ?
By the way Phoenixfury, what tuner are you using ?

I will make it easier for you.

Here is the HDHomeRun channel guide for our area.
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:46530#lineup_1546766

But you see, we are able to add pretty much any QAM channel either by adding it manually or editing the current one that has a lock next to it.

I was under the impression that since I am able to get the music channels on my DVR that these are on QAM.
What would be cool is to know all of the QAM frequencies that CC uses and try and see which ones are not encrypted. Supposedly that is the cablecard does, it must hold the encryption keys and the matching QAM channels.

In the link I provided you can see that many channels are listed, but not the Music channels. How awesome would it be if the music channels were like that also ?
By the way Phoenixfury, what tuner are you using ?

I'm using 2 Avermedia Duet PCIe cards. Quad recording rocks! Well any way I'm not so sure I'll bother with QAM tuning all that much. I'd do it if my signal wasn't so crazy when I hook up to my PC. Cable works fine if I hook into the box, but when I hook it to my PC, the signal go's in and out.. Nothing looks good not even the local OTA stations. I think my splitter and the length of my cables is likely the problem. Also I very seldom watch anything in standard def.. That's the only problem I have with the cable QAM channels is they are all standard def with the exception of the local channels. Well at least all the ones I checked were all standard def 4x3.. I guess I'm just too spoiled by HD. :-)

I guess I should explain what I mean by in and out.. What I mean is the signal seems to drop so low that things either get blocky or stop altogether. This is a horrible mess and completely unusable this way.

I'm using 2 Avermedia Duet PCIe cards. Quad recording rocks! Well any way I'm not so sure I'll bother with QAM tuning all that much. I'd do it if my signal wasn't so crazy when I hook up to my PC. Cable works fine if I hook into the box, but when I hook it to my PC, the signal go's in and out.. Nothing looks good not even the local OTA stations. I think my splitter and the length of my cables is likely the problem. Also I very seldom watch anything in standard def.. That's the only problem I have with the cable QAM channels is they are all standard def with the exception of the local channels. Well at least all the ones I checked were all standard def 4x3.. I guess I'm just too spoiled by HD. :-)

I guess I should explain what I mean by in and out.. What I mean is the signal seems to drop so low that things either get blocky or stop altogether. This is a horrible mess and completely unusable this way.


I am confused by your last post.
If it goes in and out how does the "quad recording rock" ?
And also I guess that is my point, if you need a cablebox/DVR why even have a Windows 7 MCE there as well ?
My entire goal is to get rid of the cablebox/DVR and have all of this myself. I am not really all that interested in having everything in HD. I watch a handfull of shows (Network Tv like Heros, 24, criminal minds, SVU and so forth).
My real problem with the CC DVR is that it is limited in capacity, and I cannot save anything off unless you use the analog hole.

WOW! This whole hidden QAM channels thing is awesome. I'm getting about 400+ channels total including the hidden channels. Right now, I'm going through each one manually and writing down each channel that works (some are scrambled) So far there are only a couple channels that aren't already available on standard cable and only SD channels, but I'm only currently in the 80's and there are a lot more to go. When I'm done I'll post the list of my findings. If anything, it's at least nice to have the digital versions of these channels, as my tuner doesn't tune analog great.

WOW! This whole hidden QAM channels thing is awesome. I'm getting about 400+ channels total including the hidden channels. Right now, I'm going through each one manually and writing down each channel that works (some are scrambled) So far there are only a couple channels that aren't already available on standard cable and only SD channels, but I'm only currently in the 80's and there are a lot more to go. When I'm done I'll post the list of my findings. If anything, it's at least nice to have the digital versions of these channels, as my tuner doesn't tune analog great.

Yeah, this thread could be renamed to "What Communist Cast doesn't want you to know"
What's more is that 80% of subscribers really don't care. Which is a shame really.
morph- please let me know if you got the music channels or what your subscription includes. I am very curious as to your set up. You can also use the link I have above for more specific qam channels.

Here are all the non-scrambled channels I was able to find. I guess the music channels aren't on here, so apparently they are scrambled along with many others. Unfortunately the only hidden HD channel I was able to find was WGN HD. Even though Media Center didn't automatically set all of these up, some of them did show up in the scan from my TV's built in tuner.

Overrall, it looks like most of the channels were simply digital versions of the standard cable channels, with a few exceptions (like Syfy)

http://i48.tinypic.com/dw9abn.png

I've gotten couple pieces of mail from Comcast about DTAs? Are they available for pickup at the Grape Road store? I've got an analog TV in the basement and would like to have the digital channels too.

Here are all the non-scrambled channels I was able to find. I guess the music channels aren't on here, so apparently they are scrambled along with many others. Unfortunately the only hidden HD channel I was able to find was WGN HD. Even though Media Center didn't automatically set all of these up, some of them did show up in the scan from my TV's built in tuner.

Overrall, it looks like most of the channels were simply digital versions of the standard cable channels, with a few exceptions (like Syfy)

http://i48.tinypic.com/dw9abn.png

Yeah, I have the same channels listed.
I am curious if the music channels are encrypted though.
I'd love to know what qam channels, if any, they are listed on.

Yeah, I have the same channels listed.
I am curious if the music channels are encrypted though.
I'd love to know what qam channels, if any, they are listed on.

I'm certain they are encrypted. I went through every single one of the 400+ QAM channels in media center and these were the only unencrypted ones. The only way you would be able to receive them is with a set top box or cablecard since they are encrypted.

I'm certain they are encrypted. I went through every single one of the 400+ QAM channels in media center and these were the only unencrypted ones. The only way you would be able to receive them is with a set top box or cablecard since they are encrypted.

So you actually clicked on each one ?
Interesting.
I also wonder how windows scans for the qam channels.
Like what numbers does it check for ? And how it is able to see encrypted and non-encrypted.

Thanks for the info morphinapg.

Hello, the channel listings are very similar to the lineup for QAM in the Michigan City-La Porte system.

I could be wrong but its my understanding that as of the other day for us (coinciding with many Chicago suburbs) Comcast moved some of those channels to expanded basic and that is why there are now more unencrypted channels viewable on QAM.

I wish they would leave it this way but reading between the lines of the letters I received from Comcast, it seems to imply that starting around mid-September the Expanded basic channels, basically anything except for the broadcast channels will be encrypted.

I hope I'm wrong because I REALLY enjoy having these channels available over Clear QAM and I HATE those cable boxes!

So you actually clicked on each one ?
Interesting.
I also wonder how windows scans for the qam channels.
Like what numbers does it check for ? And how it is able to see encrypted and non-encrypted.

Thanks for the info morphinapg.

Yeah I checked each one off and then flipped through each channel manually and noted each one that didn't say scrambled. I excluded the ones media center naturally enables. It seems media center only enables the channels that display their callsigns and epg data.

I'm sure all the hidden channels are any channel that registered a signal whether it was encrypted or not. Since it's digital the way it sees encrypted is just like any encrypted file.

Yeah I checked each one off and then flipped through each channel manually and noted each one that didn't say scrambled. I excluded the ones media center naturally enables. It seems media center only enables the channels that display their callsigns and epg data.

I'm sure all the hidden channels are any channel that registered a signal whether it was encrypted or not. Since it's digital the way it sees encrypted is just like any encrypted file.

That was my point in the previous post.
How do we know what channels are encrypted ?
I guess I could spend 3 or 4 hours manually going through each channel and adding to to the line up or having the preview on while editing.
I just feel like there is something more there....:)

That was my point in the previous post.
How do we know what channels are encrypted ?
I guess I could spend 3 or 4 hours manually going through each channel and adding to to the line up or having the preview on while editing.
I just feel like there is something more there....:)

My point is, you don't need to do that since I did. The way you know it's encrypted is you get a "This signal is scrambled" message instead of a picture.

I suppose there could be even more channels not detected by media center, but I suppose you just have to trust it. Otherwise, adding channels it didn't detect would take forever as there is probably (at least) tens of thousands of possibilities. So unless you specifically know a channel number that isn't detected, it's not worth it.

I am confused by your last post.
If it goes in and out how does the "quad recording rock" ?
And also I guess that is my point, if you need a cablebox/DVR why even have a Windows 7 MCE there as well ?
My entire goal is to get rid of the cablebox/DVR and have all of this myself. I am not really all that interested in having everything in HD. I watch a handfull of shows (Network Tv like Heros, 24, criminal minds, SVU and so forth).
My real problem with the CC DVR is that it is limited in capacity, and I cannot save anything off unless you use the analog hole.

Oops, I kind of forgotten to get back to replying to this post.

What I meant about quad tuning rocking is that I mean it's awesome! I can record 4 channels at once. This has nothing to do with my signal going in and out on cable.. The problem I have is if I try to do QAM tuning on my quad tuners, the signal is so bad that it's not stable. I get blocks, loss of picture, basically the signal appears to be in the dumps. However the set top box I have decodes the cable signals just fine. I'm puzzled as to why my QAM tuners are having trouble, but the cable box has no problem at all.

However I'm just not that wild about recording much stuff in standard def anyway. I'd rather watch my shows live in HD rather than watch or record anything in standard def. That's not to say I wouldn't watch anything in standard def though. Yeah I admit I've become somewhat of an HD snob. :-)

By the way, those of us that may be interested in using cable card on our PC's will likely find this interesting. This would go nicely with my quad OTA broadcast tuners. :-)

http://hd.engadget.com/2010/02/02/cetons-cablecard-tuner-to-work-over-the-network-too/

By the way, those of us that may be interested in using cable card on our PC's will likely find this interesting. This would go nicely with my quad OTA broadcast tuners. :-)

http://hd.engadget.com/2010/02/02/cetons-cablecard-tuner-to-work-over-the-network-too/

Interesting product. But the price is WAAAYYYY too much. I barely forked over the $130 for the HDHomeRun solution with out my hand shaking when bought that on ebay.
I am calling my congressman Joe Donnelly. (Phone: 574.288.2780) I am going to complain that comcast is removing all support for TVs that are cable ready or TVs that have a digital tuner and requiring thier stupid box. It is oppressive and very anticompetitive. How did they get away with that ?
This is not a question about removing analog and freeing up that bandwidth. Clear QAM is digital, not analog.
I just want to watch TV for heavens sake with out Comcast reaching into my livingroom. :mad:

Are they available for pickup at the Grape Road store?

Yes they are but, unlike I was expecting, they add only a handful of digital channels. I thought I would get all my Digital Preferred channels but you need a real cable box for that.

Got something new to gripe about. LOL!

This might be due to using Windows Media Center and some weird resolutions. Unfortunately although my tv is 1366x768 resolution, my video card refuses to scale to that resolution.. So I have to scale to some odd ball resolution that my video card is happy with.. Well I thought I found a happy medium until I watched the first skit on SNL tonight and found the text to the right of the screen bumped all the way to the edge of my screen.. So with that said I had to tweak it again until it looked right. Now just about everything looks right except...

There's a white flickery line that appears on standard def content 4x3 on WSBT 22 Fox 28 and ABC 57. This line go's away whenever HD content is displayed on these channels. However I noticed this doesn't seem to occur on WNDU 16 or CW25.

I'm sure this is normal, but I'm at my wits end trying to figure out how to crop it out.. My video card (Nvidia Geforce 220) is refusing to play nice and let me crop it.. This is odd because I have gotten it to crop out before.. However my card seems to keep reverting back to where it was before I attempted to crop out the line..

Sorry just had to vent, but also hoping maybe you guys might be able to throw me a bone that could fix my problem.. That line is driving me crazy!

Got something new to gripe about. LOL!

This might be due to using Windows Media Center and some weird resolutions. Unfortunately although my tv is 1366x768 resolution, my video card refuses to scale to that resolution.. So I have to scale to some odd ball resolution that my video card is happy with.. Well I thought I found a happy medium until I watched the first skit on SNL tonight and found the text to the right of the screen bumped all the way to the edge of my screen.. So with that said I had to tweak it again until it looked right. Now just about everything looks right except...

There's a white flickery line that appears on standard def content 4x3 on WSBT 22 Fox 28 and ABC 57. This line go's away whenever HD content is displayed on these channels. However I noticed this doesn't seem to occur on WNDU 16 or CW25.

I'm sure this is normal, but I'm at my wits end trying to figure out how to crop it out.. My video card (Nvidia Geforce 220) is refusing to play nice and let me crop it.. This is odd because I have gotten it to crop out before.. However my card seems to keep reverting back to where it was before I attempted to crop out the line..

Sorry just had to vent, but also hoping maybe you guys might be able to throw me a bone that could fix my problem.. That line is driving me crazy!

That's weird. SD or HD content shouldnt make a difference since the signal is 720p regardless. Now you see what gremlins I have to play with on a daily basis. :D

I would assume it's caused by the SD upconverter catching some of the extra information above line 25 in the SD video, like the closed captioning on line 21. I could be completely wrong about that; just a guess.

- Trip

That's weird. SD or HD content shouldnt make a difference since the signal is 720p regardless. Now you see what gremlins I have to play with on a daily basis. :D

Yes this is odd indeed since I never saw those lines with my old tv cards. I think the lines have always been there, it's just my new tv cards are exposing them. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to crop them out with out losing some valuable screen real estate for other applications. (IE. Hulu desktop and Boxee.) In other words I can crop the garbage lines manually but then when I run other apps outside of Media Center I lose a lot of my screen due to catering to Media Center. I guess my options are to live with it, or complain to all the local OTA HD channel engineers about how annoying that line is.. Unfortunately I have a bad feeling I'm in the minority on this one.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but this line doesn't appear on CW25 at all, yet it does appear on ABC 57.. 69 (as with the other SD channels) don't seem to be affected with the exception of the Stort Tracker channel 22.2..

I wanted to do a full screen capture, but I can't seem to figure out how... But if you look closely at the top of the frame, you'll see dashes.. These are really pronounced when the image is full screen whether it be on my computer monitor, or my television. However while full screen, I see two lines of dashes, not one and they flicker badly. The movie is the Mask of Zorro and this aired on ABC 57 this weekend.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_I4_NGhTWoYI/S28Vz5RPj9I/AAAAAAAAAU8/F4gmGChd55k/s1024/Zorro%20ABC%2057.jpg

This is the ugliness I see on both my monitor and television when I'm viewing full screen..

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_I4_NGhTWoYI/S28ZQhVlf8I/AAAAAAAAAWU/QoyYYScWhlw/s800/0207101445.jpg

The lines are always on almost any SD content because SDTVs usually cover them up and those lines contain data not intended for viewer's eyes. When the content gets upscaled to HD, usually those lines are still there, but occasionally the upscaler will remove them. The fact is most TVs have overscan that will cover them up, so the stations don't worry about them. When you watch a program in media center, you don't have overscan and will see those lines. Other than using zoom 2 or 4 (which crop a lot of picture) there's nothing you can do. I hardly watch SD content anymore, but when I do I just tend to ignore those lines.

The lines are always on almost any SD content because SDTVs usually cover them up and those lines contain data not intended for viewer's eyes. When the content gets upscaled to HD, usually those lines are still there, but occasionally the upscaler will remove them. The fact is most TVs have overscan that will cover them up, so the stations don't worry about them. When you watch a program in media center, you don't have overscan and will see those lines. Other than using zoom 2 or 4 (which crop a lot of picture) there's nothing you can do. I hardly watch SD content anymore, but when I do I just tend to ignore those lines.

The odd thing is I never saw these lines on my Avermedia A180's.. I wonder if Avermedia may had cropped out these lines in software. I guess it wouldn't hurt to get a hold of Avermedia about this and see if they have a solution for eliminating this annoyance.. As I said before, this isn't consistent across all the channels.

The odd thing is I never saw these lines on my Avermedia A180's.. I wonder if Avermedia may had cropped out these lines in software. I guess it wouldn't hurt to get a hold of Avermedia about this and see if they have a solution for eliminating this annoyance.. As I said before, this isn't consistent across all the channels.

Right, it all depends on the station's scaler. If your other card didn't show these, then it's possible it cropped the top few lines, although I wouldn't want it doing that for my HD broadcasts (it probably wouldn't have been able to tell if it was an SD or HD broadcast on a HD channel as both are played at the same resolution) I thought all digital tuners simply captured bit identical streams from the digital channel. If so, every digital tuner should look the same in media center.

Right, it all depends on the station's scaler. If your other card didn't show these, then it's possible it cropped the top few lines, although I wouldn't want it doing that for my HD broadcasts (it probably wouldn't have been able to tell if it was an SD or HD broadcast on a HD channel as both are played at the same resolution) I thought all digital tuners simply captured bit identical streams from the digital channel. If so, every digital tuner should look the same in media center.

This could have been how how my Geforce 8600 dealt with HD video on Media Center. The odd thing is my old video card actually supported my television's native resolution of 1366x768, but my much newer Geforce 220 does not.. As a result I have to pick a 1080ish resolution and use the videocards cropping controls to make the computer fit the screen properly.. I think this is where the problem lye's. I'm thinking the old videocard used a sort of faux resolution for Media Center. The way I'm doing it now, I'm getting a more accurate representation of my screen's native resolution which unfortunately shows the garbage that was hidden before..

There doesn't seem to be any clear cut solution for my problem. I was able to change my televisions controls to crop out garbage lines, but in the process now Boxee, and Hulu don't look quite right on the television screen since I have to manually crop out the over scan junk. Now I'm debating with myself whether or not if I should just live with the junk so I don't lose any HD resolution, or leave it cropped.. You know it's going to bug me that those extra lines of resolution are hiding under the edges of my tv screen. I'm thinking I might just have to get used to it because I love my Boxee and I hate seeing good content get cropped out.

I don't care much for football, but I am watching the big game just to watch the commercials. I gotta say though, I give CBS props for the amazing 5.1 surround! I can hear distinctly different crowd sounds coming from each surround speaker. This gives me that authentic feeling of actually being in the stands. :-)

I don't care much for football, but I am watching the big game just to watch the commercials. I gotta say though, I give CBS props for the amazing 5.1 surround! I can hear distinctly different crowd sounds coming from each surround speaker. This gives me that authentic feeling of actually being in the stands. :-)

Most network telecasts run a simulated surround. Super bowl was definately discrete 5.1!

Most network telecasts run a simulated surround. Super bowl was definately discrete 5.1!

I could definitely tell, it was sounded amazing!

I could definitely tell, it was sounded amazing!

Yeah I noticed. It was like I could hear individual people in the crowd at times.

I'm guessing most of you know it, but in case you haven't seen it yet, that according to the (annoying) scroll that I see going on the top half of the screen of 16-2, 16-2 goes away come Friday for the Olympics and then after those are over, 16-2 pops back up again. I think that's a smart move for WNDU. Too bad, that WMAQ over in Chicago doesn't seem as they are following suit, at least when it comes to major sports events like this.

I'm guessing most of you know it, but in case you haven't seen it yet, that according to the (annoying) scroll that I see going on the top half of the screen of 16-2, 16-2 goes away come Friday for the Olympics and then after those are over, 16-2 pops back up again. I think that's a smart move for WNDU. Too bad, that WMAQ over in Chicago doesn't seem as they are following suit, at least when it comes to major sports events like this.

I wish 16.2 would just go away for good. I don't see a reason for it in the first place.

I wish 16.2 would just go away for good. I don't see a reason for it in the first place.

IIRC it was placed there for cable systems that used it for the 4x3 feed without simply centercropping the main feed. It is not really needed now (for more than 18 months) that 16.1 has not been stretched when not in HD. The way the message is worded (properly tuned to 16.1) it seems that cable companies have been told to go away.

It is lousy quality and very blocky. I don't see a reason to bring it back. It would be NICE if WNDU would have figured out what WSBT knows how to do. Put up a quality HD signal plus a non-blocky .2 and throw in the .3 as a bonus.

I'll have to check it later tonight and see if it is a letterbox during HD hours or just a centercut like satellite/cable do with the .1 to get a 4:3 channel. There is a purpose in having a letterbox channel for cable (if they use it). But if what we're seeing today is the usual quality it is time to let it die.

(Edit: It is letterbox.)

IIRC it was placed there for cable systems that used it for the 4x3 feed without simply centercropping the main feed. It is not really needed now (for more than 18 months) that 16.1 has not been stretched when not in HD. The way the message is worded (properly tuned to 16.1) it seems that cable companies have been told to go away.

It is lousy quality and very blocky. I don't see a reason to bring it back. It would be NICE if WNDU would have figured out what WSBT knows how to do. Put up a quality HD signal plus a non-blocky .2 and throw in the .3 as a bonus.

I'll have to check it later tonight and see if it is a letterbox during HD hours or just a centercut like satellite/cable do with the .1 to get a 4:3 channel. There is a purpose in having a letterbox channel for cable (if they use it). But if what we're seeing today is the usual quality it is time to let it die.

(Edit: It is letterbox.)

I'm sure they can send a letterbox feed to comcast without having to broadcast it to everyone else and wasting bandwidth. Also, they used to have a .3 which was the 24/7 doppler radar, but that disappeared a few years ago I think.

I just fired up the Olympics and man the HD content is beautiful! I think we should make it a point to write WNDU (whether it be Olympics or other HD content) and let them know how much better the picture is opposed to what it looks with 16.2. I think it would help if they realize we notice.

I am in fort wayne and still do antenna installations by requests. I did an antenna on the west end of S.bend for analog a few years ago to receive Chicago. Antenna and pre-amp is now not useable due to ice and damage. It is a 40 foot tower and now they want digital from Chgo.Is this a waste of my time or can digital be received at this distance? The antenna I would pick is the Winegard HD 7698p and the pre-amp is up for grabs. Possibly the HD-269 because of the overload issue with S.bend channels. I still have a like new Channel master UHF only 4251 7 foot parascope antenna. i dont want to let this classic go.But it might work on the uhf channels. Any ideas?

I'm sure they can send a letterbox feed to comcast without having to broadcast it to everyone else and wasting bandwidth. Also, they used to have a .3 which was the 24/7 doppler radar, but that disappeared a few years ago I think.

Comcast is not the only cable company.

Comcast is not the only cable company.

I thought Comcast was the only local cable company and the others were all satellite or iptv.

Well anyway my point was they could just send a letterbox feed to the cable companies without using the OTA bandwidth if they were worried about that.

Anyway, I wish sd DTV tuners could automatically detect whether the source is 16:9 or 4:3 w/ pillarbox and scale accordingly. My family has a tuner for the old 4:3 tv in the living room and uses the zoom mode so that 4:3 content isn't small and centered, but when 16:9 content is on, the sides are cropped off, and they don't feel like un-zooming for those times.

If the cable companies had tuners like that, the station wouldn't even need to produce a letterbox feed.

I am in fort wayne and still do antenna installations by requests. I did an antenna on the west end of S.bend for analog a few years ago to receive Chicago. Antenna and pre-amp is now not useable due to ice and damage. It is a 40 foot tower and now they want digital from Chgo.Is this a waste of my time or can digital be received at this distance? The antenna I would pick is the Winegard HD 7698p and the pre-amp is up for grabs. Possibly the HD-269 because of the overload issue with S.bend channels. I still have a like new Channel master UHF only 4251 7 foot parascope antenna. i dont want to let this classic go.But it might work on the uhf channels. Any ideas?

The general rule seems to be that anything more than 60 miles is too far. I receive a very steady, reliable signal from WXMI in Grand Rapids that is 70 miles away according to the FCC data. But some channels that are closer are not reliable.

Any one using Closed Captioning?
Our locals are through Directv.
For about two weeks there's been no CC on WNIT. The other channels seem to have no problem, altho last night when I was checking the other locals, WBND's CC seemed to be coming and going.
I e-mailed WNIT 10 days ago, but there's been no reply.

Edit: I see tonight it's working.

WNDU is really aggravating in the morning with their stupid school closings banner. It takes up half the screen, drops HD content entirely, and runs in 4:3. When is WNDU going to have HD capabilities? Why must they run that banner until 10AM? How is it that WSBT is a decade ahead of them in technology?

Anyone having problems getting WSJV tonight? I can't get them all right now in Angola. They usually come in great here, near 100% signal. Nothing at all right now,

I am in fort wayne and still do antenna installations by requests. I did an antenna on the west end of S.bend for analog a few years ago to receive Chicago. Antenna and pre-amp is now not useable due to ice and damage. It is a 40 foot tower and now they want digital from Chgo.Is this a waste of my time or can digital be received at this distance? The antenna I would pick is the Winegard HD 7698p and the pre-amp is up for grabs. Possibly the HD-269 because of the overload issue with S.bend channels. I still have a like new Channel master UHF only 4251 7 foot parascope antenna. i dont want to let this classic go.But it might work on the uhf channels. Any ideas?
I'm not current on afore meantioned antenna's.I do use a 5ft Channel Master parabolic @55 ft for UHF terrific gain but it's like trying to aim a dart very touchy at distances over 50-60 miles.Watching Indianapolis just a few degrees on aiming is critical.I'm gunna try a stacked pair of Super G's come spring.Good luck!!

wow, i love that there is a thread on this, maybe you guys can help me. I'm from goshen and i'm having issues receiving OTA in my bedroom upstairs. when semi's go by the house some of the main channels like 16/22/28 drop for many seconds before regaining signal. and i have problems receiving 25 altogether. right now i'm jusing a standard rabbit ear antenna and should replace with something more suited for it. i have no choice but to keep an antenna right here so outdoor in the attic solutions are outta the question. can you recommend something fairly cheep that will allow me to get all channels. BTW did 69 go off air or something, haven't got them since the transition

wow, i love that there is a thread on this, maybe you guys can help me. I'm from goshen and i'm having issues receiving OTA in my bedroom upstairs. when semi's go by the house some of the main channels like 16/22/28 drop for many seconds before regaining signal. and i have problems receiving 25 altogether. right now i'm jusing a standard rabbit ear antenna and should replace with something more suited for it. i have no choice but to keep an antenna right here so outdoor in the attic solutions are outta the question. can you recommend something fairly cheep that will allow me to get all channels. BTW did 69 go off air or something, haven't got them since the transition

Nothing has changed with WMYS since we've fired up the digital a few years ago. We've had some minor amplifier problems in the past, but that's it.

Nothing has changed with WMYS since we've fired up the digital a few years ago. We've had some minor amplifier problems in the past, but that's it.


Any idea when we might get My michiana WMYS in HD in our area?

wow, i love that there is a thread on this, maybe you guys can help me. I'm from goshen and i'm having issues receiving OTA in my bedroom upstairs. when semi's go by the house some of the main channels like 16/22/28 drop for many seconds before regaining signal. and i have problems receiving 25 altogether. right now i'm jusing a standard rabbit ear antenna and should replace with something more suited for it. i have no choice but to keep an antenna right here so outdoor in the attic solutions are outta the question. can you recommend something fairly cheep that will allow me to get all channels. BTW did 69 go off air or something, haven't got them since the transition

I take it you live near the south end of town? I live in that area and over the air antenna is a crap shoot. The trains over here interrupt the signal big time. Late last year I got DirecTV and no longer rely on an antenna thankfully. Before that I broke down and got an outdoor antenna that ran out the window and on top of the roof to get local HD. No indoor antenna that I tried worked with every station.

Any idea when we might get My michiana WMYS in HD in our area?

Very unlikely WMYS will ever be HD.

Very unlikely WMYS will ever be HD.

I'm not sure if the station has anything to do with this or not, but Windows Media Center often flags content on WMYS as HD, as well as reruns of certain shows on WBND and WCWW that aren't HD. Is this a flag the station is sending out or a flag that Microsoft is erroneously sending out based on tv series and if a channel is digital?

I'm not sure if the station has anything to do with this or not, but Windows Media Center often flags content on WMYS as HD, as well as reruns of certain shows on WBND and WCWW that aren't HD. Is this a flag the station is sending out or a flag that Microsoft is erroneously sending out based on tv series and if a channel is digital?

I don't think this is the station's or Microsoft's fault. They use the same program guide as Tivo believe it not which is Zap2It.. On the other hand that data isn't going to be correct if the stations themselves are telling Zap2iIt that those programs are in HD when they really are not. However there may be some redundant national feed stuff going on as far as My Network is concerned. Zap2It may assume that all My Network tv stations are HD. They might also assume most movies are to be flagged as HD as they are playing on HD stations. My assumption is that it's easier for Zap2It to take the (HD where available) stance.

For you guys in Goshen, I'd like to suggest getting basic cable assuming you guys are able to get Comcast. Granted yes there is a monthly fee, this is probably your best bet for getting all of the local channels in HD with out any interference. Just make sure your television equipment can tune clear QAM. Most modern equipment (within the past few years) can tune clear QAM. I think this is your best bet if you can't setup an outdoor antenna.

I'm not sure if the station has anything to do with this or not, but Windows Media Center often flags content on WMYS as HD, as well as reruns of certain shows on WBND and WCWW that aren't HD. Is this a flag the station is sending out or a flag that Microsoft is erroneously sending out based on tv series and if a channel is digital?

AT&T also does that for Uverse. I believe it's based on generic data basically saying the show is available in HD. Whether the station chooses/has capabilities to air it in HD is another ballgame. Not sure where the info comes from but I don't have options like that in our Guide data generator.

AT&T also does that for Uverse. I believe it's based on generic data basically saying the show is available in HD. Whether the station chooses/has capabilities to air it in HD is another ballgame. Not sure where the info comes from but I don't have options like that in our Guide data generator.

Yeah I'm guessing it's because the show is available in HD and the channel is digital, so Media Center believes it's airing in HD.

Glorious 480i HD! :)

OK, I could understand Media Center not knowing if a program on a 1080i/720p feed was HD or SD upconverted, but if the feed is only 480i it is never HD.

I suppose their database isn't tied to the channel enough to understand that a 480i channel isn't ever HD ... it would be nice if it were. Then again, that would throw off any stations that change from HD to SD during the programming day to have additional subchannels at some time and full HD at other times.

I just noticed that these 2 channels are missing today. I know they get their data from Tribune media services. I don't know what went wrong.

I just noticed that these 2 channels are missing today. I know they get their data from Tribune media services. I don't know what went wrong.

Thanks for the heads up. I will pass along.

FYI: DISH has 25.1 data (via Tribune). 69.1 info has never been on DISH.

Still missing as of today.

Still missing as of today.

Meaning the show info is gone or the channels all together?

Meaning the show info is gone or the channels all together?

The channels do not appear in the program guide and therefore can't be tuned in. They just vanished a couple of days ago. My HR20 DVR does not have the ability to scan for channels or to manually tune them. Only channels listed in the program guide can be accessed.

The channels do not appear in the program guide and therefore can't be tuned in. They just vanished a couple of days ago. My HR20 DVR does not have the ability to scan for channels or to manually tune them. Only channels listed in the program guide can be accessed.

I'd call Direct TV and see what they say.

DirecTV dropped all low-powered stations from their guide listings.

- Trip