Etch: Which 5 stations does your QAM tuner pick up in HD?

NDZ: I'd swear these have juggled once (?). And, for the record, I have not paid too much attention, since tomorrow we get new wiring and a 3412-3416 stb (be still my heart, hope it works).

Below find what I have seen in HD, or think was in HD, and took time to note:

116-1 / CBS
117-1 / NBC?
117-2 / Fox
123-5 ?
123-6 ?
124-1 ?
124-3 WTTW-PBS

One of the above is probably ABC, one is probably WNIT. And, some of these only broadcast in HD part of the time, so what shows up HD on one check might be SD another. I'm not sure if that's due to programming -or- daytime / prime time programming decisions?

During one of the football playoff games I was surfing to try and find channel pairs in SD/HD. When my son saw the HD version he gasped out loud (kewl). Later we would FLASHBACK between the two to appreciate the dif.

GL,
e

Hopefully the guy who comes out to install the wire tap (limiter?) will at least check the signal strength. I have a splitter running feed to another room and am also considering adding a second split in AV area to install a DVD-recorder. I'm wondering what the signal strength will be after the splits ...


My signal is split 3 ways, once for the upstairs (HD)TV, once for the downstairs analog TV and once for the cable modem. Don't have any issues that I'm aware of.

Anybody watch WBND-DT or WCWW-DT via Comcast and have audio dropouts?

Watched CW Tuesday for 2 hrs and didn't notice anything. Will be watching ABC to 2 hrs tonight and will report back tomorrow if there are any.

Watched CW Tuesday for 2 hrs and didn't notice anything. Will be watching ABC to 2 hrs tonight and will report back tomorrow if there are any.
Good cause I'm curious. Comcast gets a different signal than OTA/DirectTV. Don't know if you watch sunday nights on WBND but that seems to be the majority of the reports. (usually AFV and Desp. Housewives)

The same thing happened on this week's Beauty & the Geek as well (CW).

lmacmil: thanks re: splitters / routing signal. For now my situation will be similar: first split feeds internet and TV. Where the TV line enters at AV center I'd like splits to feed:

1) DVR > HDTV (*)
2) to bedroom (**)
3) DVD recorder (***)

This totals five total places where signal is split and degrades. I have read about line amps, etc., but also that you can boost and end up with too much signal. I'm curious whether the std (cheap) splitters are OK, or whether the tech will suggest something else.

Again, if need be I will pay for a tech visit later. For now I just will have three splits pulling signal (www / dvr / bedroom). My trap install (whatever that is) is today ... then later I'll pop by the Comcast local to pick up the DVR.

etch

(*) routing through a cable surge suppressor while considering whole house
(**) this cable may be split again to feed another bedroom, both are analog TVs
(***) still shopping / in no hurry, already missed a refurb with it's own tuner :mad:

(*) routing through a cable surge suppressor while considering whole house


Another "watch out for." When I routed the cable thru my surge protector, a couple of the HD channels became unwatchable. Can't remember for sure but I think ESPN was one of them and WSBT might have been the other. Someone else said surge protectors may degrade the signal enough to cause problems. Why it only affected 2 channels is beyond me.

Comcast gets a different signal than OTA/DirectTV. Don't know if you watch sunday nights on WBND but that seems to be the majority of the reports. (usually AFV and Desp. Housewives)

I think there was a brief dropout at 9:55 last night on Grey's. Unfortunately, there was no dialogue going on but the background music seemed to stop. Might have been only 3 seconds but my wife actually noticed it. Other than that, everything was fine since the start of Ugly Betty.

Another "watch out for." When I routed the cable thru my surge protector, a couple of the HD channels became unwatchable. [...] Someone else said surge protectors may degrade the signal enough to cause problems. Why it only affected 2 channels is beyond me.

Thanks lmacmil, I will try it with suppressor inline first, then without if there are problems. Guess the word suppressor says it all. Think I read the same thing, in a topic here about conditioning the signal? Wish I had a friend with a signal meter :cool:

Assuming (dangerous word that) the cable guy actually shows (now almost 3 hours in to the 4 hour window) I'd like to run the coax and have it checked while he's here. Really, if that's not the kind of thing that will be done, I don't know what I paid for?

The trap installation sounds like something Comcast would want to regulate PPV stuff I'm not subscribed to. Why I would be the one to pay for them to restrict that is beyond me ...

Hope springs eternal,
e

IMPRESSIVE:

Rec'd an automated call last night, now another, confirming appt (suggesting the tech will arrive at 11:16am)

How do it know? :eek:

e

Rec'd an automated call last night, now another, confirming appt (suggesting the tech will arrive at 11:16am)

How do it know? :eek:

e

Either a GPS on the truck or the tech called the dispatcher to say he was heading your way. :)

Alles:

My pkg was upgraded to Comcast Digital Plus yesterday. I got no less than two (computerized) phone reminders / confirms (*), the feller was on time, he was very pleasant, and very helpful as to my intended whole house config.

Later I picked up and self installed the 3416 DVR. If the box is used / recycled / refurbed ... there's no way to tell. Though handed to me out of carton, the thing is spanking clean and still has clear wrap over the display. All cables expected were included as well as a clean remote.

I am coming from the DirecTV guide, so moved from (7) visible channel lines to (5). But, FWIW, on first blush, I'd say the Comcast guide is superior. I like that the last channel continues in upper right PIP while surfing and upper left has a small description (click info for more).

Doubtless the glitches will occur (modem had to be reset from Ccast for example), but, so far so good! There is a lag in remote opp, but I'd heard about that from others. For now I'm not reading anything, just trying to peel the onion by pushing buttons and discovering features. The UI seems fine ...

etch

(*) that, the line in my post above, is an old joke. Guy goes into and sees a [insert brand] cooler. On the label it says "keeps warm things warm and cool things cool" ... guy wonders: [I]but how do it know?

I think the guys phone triggers mapquest type auto-calc of the arrival time at next appointment and generates call update confirm

test

Hmm, tried to upload a graphic of my sys. No joy. Per the wizard:

TV.jpg: File Too Large. Limits are 800 x 640. Your file is 576 x 756

756 is < 800 and 576 < 640. The engine wants pics in landscape?

Hmm ...

etch

test 2 (forgive me, now in landscape format, small size)

uncle, I give up -- this does not compute :mad:

I recorded CSI off Comcast ch 189 Thursday. Was watching last night and about 8 or 9 minute in, the DVR froze just like it does sometimes when watching this channel live. Have to unplug the thing before it's watchable again. Very strange that I could record a show for 60 min yet playing back the recording could cause the DVR to lock up (and by lock up I mean the picture freezes but the audio is ok.)

My moto dct3412 has been pretty user friendly thus far. Thanks to you who encouraged me to just pick the box up and self install. It was easy going as you suggested. I'm still not sure what the service call was for (though the guy was very helpful).

Last night I was enjoying dual tuner recording / playback time shifting and look forward to recording 24 tonight for Mrs. Etchasketch, so she can watch during the daytime at her pleasure.

Next, it's on to some macros (thanks to the wiki builders), remote simplification and a decision about hard copy recording (external DVD recorder-tuner on coax leg / computer DVD burner via firewire).

Thanks again alles!

BR, etch

ps - though I am finding most features by experimentation, for those trying to help low-readiness subscribers, consider printing hard copies of the 64xx user manual and guide manual. It's comforting to look at the booklet while testing IMO

8:36 on Gilmore Girls, about 5-6 seconds during the show. Watching via Comcast on 192.

8:36 on Gilmore Girls, about 5-6 seconds during the show. Watching via Comcast on 192.
OK that is narrowing down my audio problems. (seriously) Comcast and OTA take 2 seperate signal paths. Both origionate from one point. Hmmmmm.... :rolleyes:

OK that is narrowing down my audio problems. (seriously) Comcast and OTA take 2 seperate signal paths. Both origionate from one point. Hmmmmm.... :rolleyes:
How's Directv picking it up, OTA or by fiber? Because I'm having 3 second dropouts from WBND through Directv. I haven't heard any dropouts on any other stations or Directv channels.

How's Directv picking it up, OTA or by fiber? Because I'm having 3 second dropouts from WBND through Directv. I haven't heard any dropouts on any other stations or Directv channels.
OTA, unfortunately. It's us, same problem with WCWW.

I just came across this on another forum.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=78215

Anybody going to/or already watch the Bulls game on WMYS?? Let me know how it looked and stuff.

Has there been any recent changes to WSBT-DT OTA? All of a sudden my Dish Vip211 is choking on the signal with constant drop outs and pixelation. Seems that WSBT-DT doesn't want to get along with this receiver.

I've checked the analog signal off the same line and it comes in perfect with no visible ghosting/interference. I also have a Vip622 and Samsung SIR-T451 which can handle the DT signal just fine. All other DT OTA channels are coming in great like always.

Thanks

Has there been any recent changes to WSBT-DT OTA? All of a sudden my Dish Vip211 is choking on the signal with constant drop outs and pixelation. Seems that WSBT-DT doesn't want to get along with this receiver.

I've checked the analog signal off the same line and it comes in perfect with no visible ghosting/interference. I also have a Vip622 and Samsung SIR-T451 which can handle the DT signal just fine. All other DT OTA channels are coming in great like always.

Thanks


I have had the same problem, same channel, same receiver. I fine-tuned the antenna direction, and it's been fine since!

ARGH! :mad:
Audio has been missing for over 5 minutes and counting on Smallville right now! Both DTV & OTA. I'm trying to watch it with closed captioning. :mad:

Looked great on KWGN (SuperStation). :D
Ok, there was one glitch early in the program but nothing serious.

Is WCWW still doing the zoomed and cropped to 4x3 presentation?

Looked great on KWGN (SuperStation). :D
Ok, there was one glitch early in the program but nothing serious.

Is WCWW still doing the zoomed and cropped to 4x3 presentation?
Yes for now. Its in the works, just not drawn out yet.

ARGH! :mad:
Audio has been missing for over 5 minutes and counting on Smallville right now! Both DTV & OTA. I'm trying to watch it with closed captioning. :mad:
I have 2 theories on this problem. Hopefully the part I get on Monday will solve this. If not then its a grand(er) problem and we have to do some serious crunching.

I finally got fed up enough to email WSBT about two problems I have with their station.

Problem one is about how their HD signal seems to loose focus when moving from scene to scene (especially during sporting events - can someone say Superbowl).

The engineer replied, " I believe the problem that you are describing happens during fast motion or dissolves/fades between scenes which are caused by sharing the high definition signal’s bandwidth (22.1) with other digital sub-channels (22.2 & 22.3). Because of the digital sub-channels, there is not enough bandwidth for the HD signal, so the HD signal goes blurry or digital blocking. As technology improves these problems will go away, but for now this is a reality we live with. "

Problem two was redirected toward Comcast. When the channel is left on 189 the Motorola cable box (64xx and 34xx) will lock up (at least the video out port). I spoke with a "Chris" at Comcast at length about this problem on Friday. He said something about seeing the problem on a 34xx box but not the 64xx. I explained to him that not only has it happened on several boxes I've had but the problem is recordable, you can fast forward through the problem w/o incident before it locks up (if you know of a spot on a recorded program) and the Motorola box will continue to record successfully if the 2nd tuner is recording another channel and the cable box has locked up while on channel 189.

As a matter of fact he stated after he was getting off the phone with me he was getting on a conference call to discuss this very thing.

Hopefully something will come of this.

Just an FYI.

Adam

22.1 definitely gets blurry between scenes. It's also much louder than the other OTA's. I always have to turn the volume down when switching from one of the other locals to 22.1. Another thing I get is single frames of garbage such as color test patterns or black/green images. Since everything goes through TiVo, I can freeze them as they go by.

22.1 definitely gets blurry between scenes. It's also much louder than the other OTA's. I always have to turn the volume down when switching from one of the other locals to 22.1. Another thing I get is single frames of garbage such as color test patterns or black/green images. Since everything goes through TiVo, I can freeze them as they go by.
OOOO.....OOOOO...(raising hand) I know what he color test patterns are!!! Assuming they are using Leitch 6800+ frames for signal processing. We had a similar problem here in Chicago with WWME. Everytime there was a switch and a glitch the card (it was year and a half ago so I forget which card) would default to a test pattern for a split second. It was pretty easily remedied as I remember. As far as the blurryness, WLS had that problem here in Chicago and it turned out to be their DTV encoder. (Although broadcasting 1080i with 2 subchannels doesnt help either) :eek:

Problem two was redirected toward Comcast. When the channel is left on 189 the Motorola cable box (64xx and 34xx) will lock up (at least the video out port). I spoke with a "Chris" at Comcast at length about this problem on Friday. He said something about seeing the problem on a 34xx box but not the 64xx. I explained to him that not only has it happened on several boxes I've had but the problem is recordable...

As a matter of fact he stated after he was getting off the phone with me he was getting on a conference call to discuss this very thing.



If you hear back from them, please post a follow-up. I have had the same problem and just witnessed the first incident of a recording from Ch 189 lock up the box last week. We're having company for the Super Bowl and I don't know which channel to watch, OTA with its signal problems or 189 with its freeze problems.

I received this email from the WSBT engineer this morning,

"Mr. Brody,

If we don’t have severe weather conditions, we are considering turning off the StormTracker channel during the Super Bowl.

Thanks,

Eugene"

It's nice to know they would respond in this manner even if it doesn't happen.
Hats off to WSBT!!

Adam
Go Bears!!
The Monsters of the Midway will master the Midwest Melee in Miami

Anyone receiving HDTV through Comcast having problems correctly decoding the audio portion of the Super Bowl Ads? Audio for the game was fine.

Too bad WSBT doesn't show their local newscasts in 16:9.

Anyone receiving HDTV through Comcast having problems correctly decoding the audio portion of the Super Bowl Ads? Audio for the game was fine.

I don't think it was cable only. I pick up OTA and heard a lot of audio cut outs durring the commercials. I also saw some strange rolling during the game which I thought was odd during a high def broadcast. Otherwise for the most part it looked and sounded great!

Yeah, audio during commercials on 22.1 OTA was all chopped up.

I had the same issue with the audio. It was like it didn't have the center channel sound, I could hear the surround sound, but not the dialog. Also, it would cause my receiver to loose it's signal.

Topp

I had the same problem watching the game OTA. When the commercials came on and the audio signal switched to 2/0 it broke up real bad and cut out.
Must have been a problem at WSBT ?

Anyone receiving HDTV through Comcast having problems correctly decoding the audio portion of the Super Bowl Ads? Audio for the game was fine.

Yes, I also noticed the audio cutouts and lack of dialog on some commercials. Also had the horizontal rolling for a few minutes at one point. I watched on Comcast.

From the TiVo forum...
"CBS seemed to be having problems with their metadata switching.
This is what switches the dolby encoders from 5.1 audio during the program to 2.0 audio for the commercials.

Since there were numerous HD commercials with 5.1 audio, this switch happened numerous times during the breaks unless the whole break consisted of 5.1 HD spots.

It seemed like one playback deck at CBS was having problems putting out this metadata so some of the 5.1 HD commercials had switching problems during them, it would switch from 5.1 to 2.0 numerous times during the spot, so numerous it sounded like popping.

Some stations force 5.1 audio for the whole program, other stations rely on this metadata switching, that's why some locations didn't hear the problems, other areas did."

I notice the audio problem on WSBT all the time, even during normal programing and the focus problem seems to happen during all sports events. You can watch the score clock blur about every 30 seconds.

Glad the superbowl is on Fox next year.

I wonder is sponsors are entitled to partial refunds for all the botched audio during their commercials.

I wonder is sponsors are entitled to partial refunds for all the botched audio during their commercials.
The Network has to make good on the spot in the time frame allotted, unless there's some goofy language in the contract.

The Network has to make good on the spot in the time frame allotted, unless there's some goofy language in the contract.Making good a SuperBowl spot would likely be at more than a 1:1 ratio. If they do get a makegood it will probably be a good size number of replays.

I have a 3-way 5-900mhz splitter for the incoming cable. Two TVs (one going to the DVR) and a cable modem. I read on another forum that the splitter should be 5-1000mhz. Should I get a new one? Is that last 100mhz important?

CSI: Miami was in 4:3 last night OTA. It's usually in 16:9. Anyone know what gives?

CSI: Miami was in 4:3 last night OTA. It's usually in 16:9. Anyone know what gives?

Was WSBT-DT running a crawl at the bottom of the screen for school closings/delays or related info? Some of the Indy stations were doing that last evening and cutting out the HD feeds. Topic of discussion at the Indy thread.

Steve

Was WSBT-DT running a crawl at the bottom of the screen for school closings/delays or related info? Some of the Indy stations were doing that last evening and cutting out the HD feeds. Topic of discussion at the Indy thread.

Steve


I didn't notice, but you're probably right. Good call!

It switched back to 16:9 HD part way through the show.

I have a 3-way 5-900mhz splitter for the incoming cable. Two TVs (one going to the DVR) and a cable modem. I read on another forum that the splitter should be 5-1000mhz. Should I get a new one? Is that last 100mhz important?
900mhz splitters are usually a good sign you have a cheap splitter. I would go 1ghz or bigger. Most cable systems are spec'd for 1ghz.

Gilmore Girls is in 4:3 tonight (via Comcast.) What's up with that?

Gilmore Girls is in 4:3 tonight (via Comcast.) What's up with that?
We're having problems with our CW HD receiver in relations to audio. Unfortunately they only run a test loop once a week for me to test it. For some reason we keep loosing audio from them. I have a test window with them tommorow. If everything goes ok then tommorow nights prime will be HD.

We're having problems with our CW HD receiver in relations to audio. Unfortunately they only run a test loop once a week for me to test it. For some reason we keep loosing audio from them. I have a test window with them tommorow. If everything goes ok then tommorow nights prime will be HD.
CW HD back up and running for Wednesday night prime time.

Its interesting watching WBNDs weather update every 10 minutes on CW25 during the daily buzz. I wonder if ABC57s weather update says CW25?

Its interesting watching WBNDs weather update every 10 minutes on CW25 during the daily buzz. I wonder if ABC57s weather update says CW25?
Nope, same guy, different weathercasts, different graphics.

Sorry... This morning on CW25 the graphics said "ABC57" on Channel 25 all morning, theres a short update and a long one, the long one was correct and had the CW25 graphics but the short weather update had channel 57's on CW25. I guess I'm the only one who watches the daily buzz? lol This is not the first time this has happened btw. Its no problem to me I just thought as this is the 3rd time I have seen this happen I should mention something. I'm guessing that its updated from cbs 58 milwaukee, or from WCIU?

Sorry... This morning on CW25 the graphics said "ABC57" on Channel 25 all morning, theres a short update and a long one, the long one was correct and had the CW25 graphics but the short weather update had channel 57's on CW25. I guess I'm the only one who watches the daily buzz? lol This is not the first time this has happened btw. Its no problem to me I just thought as this is the 3rd time I have seen this happen I should mention something. I'm guessing that its updated from cbs 58 milwaukee, or from WCIU?
I watch it from time to time when I get in. :D Correct on the first station.

Does anyone have a list of what can be received on a TV with a QAM tuner from Comcast without a cable box?

Does anyone have a list of what can be received on a TV with a QAM tuner from Comcast without a cable box?

I just got a new JVC TV in January. I did a scan and got CW and ABC HD channels, but not the rest of the locals. It must be just my TV, because other people have reported getting the other locals also. I also receive channels 2, 5, 7, and 11 from Chicago in SD. Also other people's Ondemand viewing and a bunch of SD channels like locals and basic cable channels, although some of them had no audio.

Al

I just got a new JVC TV in January. I did a scan and got CW and ABC HD channels, but not the rest of the locals. It must be just my TV, because other people have reported getting the other locals also. I also receive channels 2, 5, 7, and 11 from Chicago in SD. Also other people's Ondemand viewing and a bunch of SD channels like locals and basic cable channels, although some of them had no audio.

Al
Some boxes are more sensitive to lower signals than others. I use the Samsung SIR T-451. It's a bit sensitive but it works good on the QAM side. Although when I scan and get around channel 95-100 it manages to reboot itself. :( So I have to manually add channels.

Friday I watched Ugly Betty and Grey's Anatomy from the DVR recording I made Thursday. About 3 min before the end of Grey's and about 2 min into the start of Betty there were 10-15 second audio dropouts. The Grey's dropout was accompanied by some video signal degradation also.

I've been having some connectivity problems with Comcast cable internet recently. About 3 times in the last month, the connection will be lost for a few minutes, come back, drop out, etc. I usually turn off the computer after about the 3rd or 4th time. Doesn't seem to be any correlation between that and TV issues (which are rare other than the ABC dropouts) though.

Does anyone know if there are any stand alone digital OTA converters for good old fashioned analog tv's on the market yet. No matter how much I try to Google any information on such a box, I only get results saying that there should be government subsidized tuners for analog tv's by 2009. However you can now buy analog tv's that have the digital tuners in them, but I can't seem to find a stand alone digital tuner for analog tv's. What gives?

Right now, I'm the only one able to pick up digital OTA because I have a Media Center PC with dual digital TV cards. My house mates want to pick up the digital OTA pretty bad, but right now to our knowledge it seems that the only solution is to buy a new tv. Am I over looking the stand alone tuners out there, or are they just not out there yet? If they are out there, can anyone point me in the right direction? It just doesn't make sense to buy a new tv when the current analog TV works fine, but just lacks a digital tuner.

Does anyone know if there are any stand alone digital OTA converters for good old fashioned analog tv's on the market yet. No matter how much I try to Google any information on such a box, I only get results saying that there should be government subsidized tuners for analog tv's by 2009. However you can now buy analog tv's that have the digital tuners in them, but I can't seem to find a stand alone digital tuner for analog tv's. What gives?

Right now, I'm the only one able to pick up digital OTA because I have a Media Center PC with dual digital TV cards. My house mates want to pick up the digital OTA pretty bad, but right now to our knowledge it seems that the only solution is to buy a new tv. Am I over looking the stand alone tuners out there, or are they just not out there yet? If they are out there, can anyone point me in the right direction? It just doesn't make sense to buy a new tv when the current analog TV works fine, but just lacks a digital tuner.
A good portion of them have composite video outputs and analog audio outs.

A good portion of them have composite video outputs and analog audio outs.

That's not a problem since we have an RF convector box that happens to have composite and s-video input connections. The issue we have is finding a standalone convector in the first place. I did manage to find a couple in my Google searches, but the odd thing is they were from a few years back and had since been discontinued. This doesn't make sense since the majority of TV owners still have analog tv's. You would think with analog broadcast going dark early 2009 that there would be more of these converters out by now. I have a really bad feeling come 2009, there's going to be a lot of really miffed people when their tubes go dark and they have no recourse for getting anything OTA. I guess the exception would be to have to buy a new tv. I find that unaceptable.

That's not a problem since we have an RF convector box that happens to have composite and s-video input connections. The issue we have is finding a standalone convector in the first place. I did manage to find a couple in my Google searches, but the odd thing is they were from a few years back and had since been discontinued. This doesn't make sense since the majority of TV owners still have analog tv's. You would think with analog broadcast going dark early 2009 that there would be more of these converters out by now. I have a really bad feeling come 2009, there's going to be a lot of really miffed people when their tubes go dark and they have no recourse for getting anything OTA. I guess the exception would be to have to buy a new tv. I find that unaceptable.
You are talking about a set-top DTV tuner right? Go to Best Buy or Circuit City. They should have a couple of models each store. Tweeter would be a good one too but they're a little pricier than the others.

Help irt saving copies offline / off DVR:

I am curious if any here have settled on method of saving copies to DVD. By that I mean to lift the signal and record to DVD, not the DVR. It's a concern that external drives will eventually fail, so I'd like LT storage on DVD.

Crazy perhaps, but I'm not inclined to import data onto computer (unless just to burn DVD from there). In fact, if I was going to try the firewire solution it would probably involve a dedicated computer tied to the AV system -or- insert laptop on temp basis. Originally I thought convergence a good idea / now feel one-way (computer to TV, slideshows, etc.) will be the extent of interaction for now.

It's been my intention to just add in a DVD recorder. Originally I thought to buy a DVD recorder with it's own tuner, but many seem to have such limited range of channels it would exclude some channels I'd like to record and save. I can't decide which direction to go.

* direct cable line to stand alone DVD recorder
* feed from HDTV output to stand alone DVD recorder
* stand alone DVD recorder in-line between DVR and HDTV

HD recordings to DVD might be more than I should hope for (data size might require extended transfer rate for events > two hours, so diminish hard copy on DVD). In past I was satisfied to save copies to VHS, so reasonable to expect DVD would be better and more stable medium even if lower quality than digital / HD, no?

Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks in advance,
etchasketch

ps - I have already read: http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/

sys: Comcast Digital Plus / Comcast Bband / moto dct 3416 / LG 37lc2d

You are talking about a set-top DTV tuner right? Go to Best Buy or Circuit City. They should have a couple of models each store. Tweeter would be a good one too but they're a little pricier than the others.

Yeah I meant converter, not convector. Wow, I didn't notice that one got through Firefox's spell checker. LOL But yes I mean a set top box DTV tuner. :) Thankyou.

Yeah I meant converter, not convector. Wow, I didn't notice that one got through Firefox's spell checker. LOL But yes I mean a set top box DTV tuner. :) Thankyou.
If you dont like what you see at the stores then Ebay is a good place to search too. My Samsung t451 has composite (regular TV) component (HD) and RF (regular tv set to ch 3/4). You'll most likely in the setup menus of the box tell it what output to use. For example on my box all resolution settings (480p, 720p, 1080i) are HD outputs therefore use the component output. 480i will use the standard yellow composite output thus compatible with most TV's. It all else fails the RF output can be used.

Help irt saving copies offline / off DVR:

I am curious if any here have settled on method of saving copies to DVD. By that I mean to lift the signal and record to DVD, not the DVR. It's a concern that external drives will eventually fail, so I'd like LT storage on DVD.

Crazy perhaps, but I'm not inclined to import data onto computer (unless just to burn DVD from there). In fact, if I was going to try the firewire solution it would probably involve a dedicated computer tied to the AV system -or- insert laptop on temp basis. Originally I thought convergence a good idea / now feel one-way (computer to TV, slideshows, etc.) will be the extent of interaction for now.

It's been my intention to just add in a DVD recorder. Originally I thought to buy a DVD recorder with it's own tuner, but many seem to have such limited range of channels it would exclude some channels I'd like to record and save. I can't decide which direction to go.

* direct cable line to stand alone DVD recorder
* feed from HDTV output to stand alone DVD recorder
* stand alone DVD recorder in-line between DVR and HDTV

HD recordings to DVD might be more than I should hope for (data size might require extended transfer rate for events > two hours, so diminish hard copy on DVD). In past I was satisfied to save copies to VHS, so reasonable to expect DVD would be better and more stable medium even if lower quality than digital / HD, no?

Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks in advance,
etchasketch

ps - I have already read: http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/

sys: Comcast Digital Plus / Comcast Bband / moto dct 3416 / LG 37lc2d


I use a MCE PC and can tell you reliably that one hour of 1080i content takes up a little more than 7GB in DVR-MS/MP4 format.
If you are intending to burn this to DVD you will require either a Blue Ray or HD-DVD burner unit for the task.
Standard DVDs won't hold that much data on a single side. (4.7GB)


Happy HD
--Orv (PC guy)

Need I mention the 3 sec audio dropout on Housewives last night? About 9:27.

thx Orv, for providing the data calc. Guess I'm leaning rowards SD version recordings then. Like so many others I am waiting to see whether Beta or VHS wins out (and / or one / both BlueRay / HD-DVD get a bit less expensive).

As an alternate, I am also considering having a friend who works at an OEM cobble together a basic desktop (with tuner and a massive hard disk) dedicated to the DVR / HDTV.

For now I just want to be able to make recordings and will be satisfied if they are digital SD on DVD.

BR, etch

Need I mention the 3 sec audio dropout on Housewives last night? About 9:27.
Hmmmm, getting closer. I did find one problem with WBND yesterday that I fixed. Doesn't look like it fixed the random dropouts. :(

apologies for the noob question.

i have the comcast HD box hooked up to my samsung as my main tv. i would like to add a secondary hdtv in my bar area in my basement. the tv i am looking at has an NTSC tuner built in. would hooking up my comcast feed directly to this tv - without the silver HD box - allow me to view some channels in HD?

i know this has been discussed before on the site, but i could not recall what the final answer was.

edit:
after reading further, it looks like i need a QAM tuner, correct? are a QAM tuner and the ATSC tuner the same thing?

thx Orv, for providing the data calc. Guess I'm leaning rowards SD version recordings then. Like so many others I am waiting to see whether Beta or VHS wins out (and / or one / both BlueRay / HD-DVD get a bit less expensive).

As an alternate, I am also considering having a friend who works at an OEM cobble together a basic desktop (with tuner and a massive hard disk) dedicated to the DVR / HDTV.

For now I just want to be able to make recordings and will be satisfied if they are digital SD on DVD.

BR, etch


While waiting for pricing to come down on the new Hi Def DVD formats is a wise choice, I wouldn't concern myself with the DVD war outcome. Unlike the old VHS/Betamax wars there will not be an end to this anytime soon. Both formats are planning to support their offerings to the hilt and since they have identical transports you can bet that dual-support hardware units are already being planned out at the manufacturing end.
On top of the current plethora of DVD burning media types, there will just be another couple flavors added to the mix.

For now I am just using some simple editing software to split content into spanned disk sets and burning them onto standard 4.7GB RW media to save until I can find a reasonable HD-DVD or Blue Ray unit to add to my hardware.

Luckily for me, I actually decide to keep very little from regular TV fare.
I do like Heroes though... so those episodes are starting to stack up on DVDs here at my house.
Lord that stuff looks great in 1080.


=)
--Orv

apologies for the noob question.

i have the comcast HD box hooked up to my samsung as my main tv. i would like to add a secondary hdtv in my bar area in my basement. the tv i am looking at has an NTSC tuner built in. would hooking up my comcast feed directly to this tv - without the silver HD box - allow me to view some channels in HD?

i know this has been discussed before on the site, but i could not recall what the final answer was.

edit:
after reading further, it looks like i need a QAM tuner, correct? are a QAM tuner and the ATSC tuner the same thing?

QAM and ATSC are not the same thing. Some TVs will tune QAM and some won't. If the TV has CableCard, then it has a QAM tuner. Some TVs without CableCard do have QAM.

Both formats are planning to support their offerings to the hilt and since they have identical transports you can bet that dual-support hardware units are already being planned out at the manufacturing end.

--Orv

The LG BH100 will play both and is available now but, at the current price tag you could buy two seperate players for each.

Is anybody else having a weird problem with their 6412? Mine has froze at 4:50 PM three days in a row. The first two days it was on WNDU HD, I don't know about today. Anybody else have the same problem?

Is anybody else having a weird problem with their 6412? Mine has froze at 4:50 PM three days in a row. The first two days it was on WNDU HD, I don't know about today. Anybody else have the same problem?

Do you use series recording with extra time added to the beginning or end of the show? I have heard reports that the box will lock up under those conditions. At 4:50 am and pm the box scans the guide listings for shows that match your series recording list. Something about adding time before or after the show locks up the box. I have never had this problem, but I only ever added time on one series before I heard that it would cause problems.

I consider myself very lucky, as I have had my 6412 for over 2 years now and haven't had any serious problems that I couldn't deal with. There is a Wikipedia page for info on the 6412/3412 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs#Box_locks_up_between_4:20_and_4:50_AM_or_PM

Al

Is anybody else having a weird problem with their 6412?

I have a 3416 and it will consistently freeze on WSBT ch 189. It may happen in 15 min or it may take a couple hours but it will happen. At least one other poster here reports the same problem on at least two different 3416s. It will even record a program without a problem and then freeze during playback. As a result, I watch OTA for the HD stuff and ch 12 for the SD stuff.

Once in a while, it will not respond to commands from the remote. Generally it appears to hold the commands in a buffer and then execute them in rapid succession. The other night it stopped responding and I had to power it down.

I think all these Moto boxes are not fully debugged yet.

Do you use series recording with extra time added to the beginning or end of the show? I have heard reports that the box will lock up under those conditions. At 4:50 am and pm the box scans the guide listings for shows that match your series recording list. Something about adding time before or after the show locks up the box. I have never had this problem, but I only ever added time on one series before I heard that it would cause problems.

I consider myself very lucky, as I have had my 6412 for over 2 years now and haven't had any serious problems that I couldn't deal with. There is a Wikipedia page for info on the 6412/3412 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs#Box_locks_up_between_4:20_and_4:50_AM_or_PM

Al

I always set my shows to begin recording 2 mins before and end 2 mins after because if I don't, I'll miss part of the episode because it will be cut off because the station is set on a different time than the dvr.

Some boxes are more sensitive to lower signals than others. I use the Samsung SIR T-451. It's a bit sensitive but it works good on the QAM side. Although when I scan and get around channel 95-100 it manages to reboot itself. :( So I have to manually add channels.

so are the built-in TV QAM tuners not as good as the external tuners (like the samsung you have)?

so are the built-in TV QAM tuners not as good as the external tuners (like the samsung you have)?
Not necessarily. It would depend on the manufacturer. It all depends on how cheap they went. :eek:

Hello fellow AVS'ers, just wanted to give everyone an update on the random audio dropouts we experience on WBND and WCWW. Currently we are working through WBND's airchain piece by piece to determine who (equipment) is dropping the audio. Once we find a cure we will apply it to WCWW as well.

Thanks for the update ...

Good to hear...

Hello fellow AVS'ers, just wanted to give everyone an update on the random audio dropouts we experience on WBND and WCWW. Currently we are working through WBND's airchain piece by piece to determine who (equipment) is dropping the audio. Once we find a cure we will apply it to WCWW as well.
So far, so good. We may have a winner. Just waiting a couple more days and we will try the same thing with WCWW.

Didn't notice any audio dropouts) on Grey's Anatomy last night but there were several instances of video noise (slight pixelation for a second.)

Didn't notice any audio dropouts) on Grey's Anatomy last night but there were several instances of video noise (slight pixelation for a second.)I didn't see any pixellation OTA or on Dish's WBND feed. No audio dropouts, either. :cool:

Good to hear guys, thanx. Your making my weekend. :D

I hate to say it but the same static and then drop out happened at 1:39 during the Oscars in the middle of the humanitarian award speech.

I hate to say it but the same static and then drop out happened at 1:39 during the Oscars in the middle of the humanitarian award speech.
Yeah, master control called me during Saturday Morning kids stuff and said they had one. Back to the drawing board once again.

I hate to say it but the same static and then drop out happened at 1:39 during the Oscars in the middle of the humanitarian award speech.

I thought I noticed one earlier, before 9.

Hello all. Just moved into a new place and we have just extended basic cable. However, with my QAM tuner in my Sony XBR970, I'm picking up all sorts of weird stuff! I am getting all the locals in HD, which is awesome, but also a lot of 480i SD channels, some of which I have on the analog side. The most interesting thing is TNT-HD...albeit no sound!! Too bad. Anyone know anything about all this or do I need a cable card to get more stuff? Unfortunately Sony dropped that feature in the 970. I'd love to add ESPN HD to this.

AJG

Anyone have reception problems with Fox on monday?

I had to watch Prison Break in SD. =[

Anyone have reception problems with Fox on monday?

I had to watch Prison Break in SD. =[

Watched in in HD OTA here.

Anyone have reception problems with Fox on monday?

I had to watch Prison Break in SD. =[

I recorded it from Comcast in HD and watched it Wed. No problem.

New to the forum, so sorry if this has come up elsewhere. I've had Comcast with an HD dvr for awhile now and I'm happy with it. But I hear MLB is going to screw us cable users and put the Extra Innings baseball package exclusively on DirecTV, and I'm addicted to baseball, so I have to at least contemplate shifting. So what's the HD scene like on DirecTV? Can I get the local HD channels in South Bend through them, or do I have to go with an antenna? If I do have to antenna it, does that mean I can't dvr-record local tv, or can they route the antenna through the dvr box? The local HD issue would be a deal-breaker for me if I can't time-shift network shows, as network tv and cable sports are about all I watch. Thanks for any info you can provide!

Chris

No South Bend HD locals yet and I'd be surprised to see them on Directv by the end of the year. They are supposed to put up 2 more satellites this year for HD.
I do know that the HR10-250 Directv with TIVO has OTA input for HD locals. The unit has to be authorized for Directv though, before the OTA tuner will work. I don't know about other Directv HD receivers.

No South Bend HD locals yet and I'd be surprised to see them on Directv by the end of the year. They are supposed to put up 2 more satellites this year for HD.
I do know that the HR10-250 Directv with TIVO has OTA input for HD locals. The unit has to be authorized for Directv though, before the OTA tuner will work. I don't know about other Directv HD receivers.

Don't think you can get the 250 any more as it's been replaced with the HR20. You wouldn't want it anyway as it can't hand the new mpeg4 channels.

The new HR20 will record the Directv sat feed and the ATSC OTA signals

For a few seconds at the very beginning of last night's Smallville, it was letterboxed and you could see everything....then a "pop" and the sides got chopped off and the title screen came up for "mallvill". :(

For a few seconds at the very beginning of last night's Smallville, it was letterboxed and you could see everything....then a "pop" and the sides got chopped off and the title screen came up for "mallvill". :(
:eek: Must have been the SD feed first.

Has someone at WSBT forgot to throw the HD switch for the basketball games?

Has someone at WSBT forgot to throw the HD switch for the basketball games?

At 8:20 HD came on!

Is Fox28 operating at full power? The last few weeks I have had a problem with Fox only.

Wow CBS/WSBT really did a number on Sunday's NCAA tourney games. Not only did we get the standard sports blur but massive pixelation on top of it.

I wish they could get this straighted out as none of the other majors seem to have this problem.

Is Fox28 operating at full power? The last few weeks I have had a problem with Fox only.


Fox has actually improved for me over the last week (from 90 to 99) since the snow has melted.

Wow CBS/WSBT really did a number on Sunday's NCAA tourney games. Not only did we get the standard sports blur but massive pixelation on top of it.

I wish they could get this straighted out as none of the other majors seem to have this problem.
Yeah I'm not sure I agree with CBS's decision to air 5 simultanious games on DTV. The idea itself is great but with limited bandwidth and enough HD enthusiasts out there thats almost suicide. :eek:

I know i have asked this before a few months ago. Is ABC 57 getting HD hopefully before football season this year?

I know i have asked this before a few months ago. Is ABC 57 getting HD hopefully before football season this year?
If you're referring to OTA Digital then yeah it's quite possible. We're still waiting on the construction permits from the FCC (WBND/WMYS). Once we get the permits we can start buying/building. :D

If you're referring to OTA Digital then yeah it's quite possible. We're still waiting on the construction permits from the FCC (WBND/WMYS). Once we get the permits we can start buying/building. :DALL THREE are listed as CPs!
Details (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=IN&call=&arn=&city=South+Bend&chan=&cha2=69&serv=LD&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9)

Place that order! :D

ALL THREE are listed as CPs!
Details (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=IN&call=&arn=&city=South+Bend&chan=&cha2=69&serv=LD&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9)

Place that order! :D
News to me!! Thanx for the details. :D

News to me!! Thanx for the details. :D
News to all of us! It was only officially reported in the FCC digest TODAY.
There was a 2-day delay from the CP's posted to the official announcement,
so you caught them red-handed. :)

OK, HVS, go and hold that metal rod about 700' up so we can get some ABC HD, mmmkay? :D

So if I'm reading this correctly WMYS will be broadcasting digital from the same tower as WCWW and WBND?

Does that mean they stack 3 antenna or can more than one station be broadcast from the same?

Just curious as none of them are sub channels.

So if I'm reading this correctly WMYS will be broadcasting digital from the same tower as WCWW and WBND?

Does that mean they stack 3 antenna or can more than one station be broadcast from the same?

Just curious as none of them are sub channels.
All three on the same tower. All sidemounts. No planned subs. Bringing you HD as raw as it gets. :eek:

So with all of them have the CPs they start building now or do they still have to wait a bit ?

For reference:
WMYS 23 LD (69 LP) will be at 284m above the ground (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154618.html))
WCWW 27 LD (25 LP) will be at 292m (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154688.html))
WBND 49 LD (57 LP) will be at 304m (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154628.html) )

WMYS 69 is at 296.9m, WBND 57 is at 310.9m and WCWW 25 is at 321.3m.
(Looks like they will have 60ft of empty stick at the top in 2009. Lease space?)

The best signal is going to WCWW ... a nice non-directional circle covering most of the area. WMYS and WBND are directional. If you look at the coverage above note that it is a prediction and reception is likely outside the blue circles. It is just the way the FCC estimates coverage.

Legally all three can be built as the application states --- the only legal hurdle would be if they wanted to change something. Other than that it is just the usual time and money argument (and it seems that the money is committed). It should be just a matter of buying and scheduling now.

For reference:
WMYS 23 LD (69 LP) will be at 284m above the ground (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154618.html))
WCWW 27 LD (25 LP) will be at 292m (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154688.html))
WBND 49 LD (57 LP) will be at 304m (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154628.html) )

WMYS 69 is at 296.9m, WBND 57 is at 310.9m and WCWW 25 is at 321.3m.
(Looks like they will have 60ft of empty stick at the top in 2009. Lease space?)

The best signal is going to WCWW ... a nice non-directional circle covering most of the area. WMYS and WBND are directional. If you look at the coverage above note that it is a prediction and reception is likely outside the blue circles. It is just the way the FCC estimates coverage.

Legally all three can be built as the application states --- the only legal hurdle would be if they wanted to change something. Other than that it is just the usual time and money argument (and it seems that the money is committed). It should be just a matter of buying and scheduling now.
Couldn't have said it better myself. :D We have WCWW's transmitter already. Just a matter of moving that one from Chicago to South Bend. (Wont exactly fit in the trunk) :eek:

Last scene of Boston Public, at 9:33 on Grey's Anatomy.

Has anything happened to WNIT's OTA HD feed in the past month or two? I used to get decent signal from it, but now I get nothing at all. Trying to figure out if its something on my end or not. On my Tivo, WNDU comes in at 94%, WSBT and WSJV come in at 82-84%, WNIT used to be in the low 70's, but now is flatlining at 0. If it was my antenna, I would have expected losses of some of the other channels as well. What could it be?

Is Fox28 operating at full power? The last few weeks I have had a problem with Fox only.

I've been having problems too. Most of the time I get full signal strength, but lately it has been dropping below 50 percent. Only for a couple seconds though then right back to full.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :D We have WCWW's transmitter already. Just a matter of moving that one from Chicago to South Bend. (Wont exactly fit in the trunk) :eek:

HVS,

Any updates? Has the purse strings opened up for the ABC/other trannies in SB?

HVS,

Any updates? Has the purse strings opened up for the ABC/other trannies in SB?
Nothing specific, just things are moving along.

In the opening scene (clock still said 9:00) of Housewives then right at the end (10:58) of Brothers & Sisters. As always about 3-5 seconds.

Nothing specific, just things are moving along.

And if you had to buy a calendar square for when each OTA HD would go live? :)

And if you had to buy a calendar square for when each OTA HD would go live? :)
LOL. No set date. Summer sometime is the best guess I can give ya.

Sometime before South Bend HD is available on either DBS provider. :D

Sometime before South Bend HD is available on either DBS provider. :D
:D

Summer sometime works for me. ESPN on ABC this fall will finally not make me upset.

Anyone have any idea when Comcast is going to get Nat Geo HD on their lineup I have been requesting this channel as well as my friends and other people on the other forums for over a year....

Hello, I'm a new poster here in Granger. Comcast question. Is there any HD content I can get off Comcast cable when I only subscribe to Basic+expanded with no STB? HDTV has QAM on board. CHannel scans turn up various things but no HD. I was at the ND home show and stopped by the Comcast display to ask and the guy would only try and sell me phone service.

Hello, I'm a new poster here in Granger. Comcast question. Is there any HD content I can get off Comcast cable when I only subscribe to Basic+expanded with no STB? HDTV has QAM on board. CHannel scans turn up various things but no HD. I was at the ND home show and stopped by the Comcast display to ask and the guy would only try and sell me phone service.
HD channels are offered on QAM in the clear. There are some other random SD channels as well.

HD channels are offered on QAM in the clear. There are some other random SD channels as well.

I live on the west end of South Bend. just before exit 72 on 80/90. The only QAM HD channels anyone out here seems to receive are ABC and CW. We also get the SD majors from Chicago in digital along with various other cable channels

I live on the west end of South Bend. just before exit 72 on 80/90. The only QAM HD channels anyone out here seems to receive are ABC and CW. We also get the SD majors from Chicago in digital along with various other cable channels
Really??? urrrrr.....ummmmm......yeah we arranged it that way.....ummmm........ :D

I live on the west end of South Bend. just before exit 72 on 80/90. The only QAM HD channels anyone out here seems to receive are ABC and CW. We also get the SD majors from Chicago in digital along with various other cable channels

That is what I get here in Middlebury, too. Some people report that they get local HD on QAM channel 116, but my TV won't scan them in.

That is what I get here in Middlebury, too. Some people report that they get local HD on QAM channel 116, but my TV won't scan them in.
Quite possibly due to signal level from Comcast. Some tuners are cranky about QAM signal levels.

Hi, I'm totally new at this. I live in Mishawaka, IN. I've just gotten a Philips MANT510 antenna to go with my Prima 30" 1080i CRT HDTV, Model #HT3061P. I've hooked up my antenna, but it looks like I'm only getting signals in Standard Definition, which doesn't look very good at all on my bargain price HDTV. I'm not sure if the antenna is malfunctioning, or if my TV just isn't made to accept HD signals through its coaxial hook-up. Needless to say, I don't know much about HD terminology like QAM, etc. If anyone has any knowledge to offer, I'd be really grateful to read it. Thanks in advance...

Hi, I'm totally new at this. I live in Mishawaka, IN. I've just gotten a Philips MANT510 antenna to go with my Prima 30" 1080i CRT HDTV, Model #HT3061P. I've hooked up my antenna, but it looks like I'm only getting signals in Standard Definition, which doesn't look very good at all on my bargain price HDTV. I'm not sure if the antenna is malfunctioning, or if my TV just isn't made to accept HD signals through its coaxial hook-up. Needless to say, I don't know much about HD terminology like QAM, etc. If anyone has any knowledge to offer, I'd be really grateful to read it. Thanks in advance...
Sounds like your TV will not take ATSC (digital) signals through its coaxial input which is pretty common these days. Antenna's don't discriminate, their just hunks of metal arranged into a set pattern for TV reception. You'll want to look into a DTV set-top box at your favorite electronic store. Living in Mishawaka, you shouldn't have any reception problems. Heck a paper clip would probably even work. :eek:

Sounds like your TV will not take ATSC (digital) signals through its coaxial input which is pretty common these days. Antenna's don't discriminate, their just hunks of metal arranged into a set pattern for TV reception. You'll want to look into a DTV set-top box at your favorite electronic store. Living in Mishawaka, you shouldn't have any reception problems. Heck a paper clip would probably even work. :eek:

I like this from TigerDirect:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1642839&Sku=ULT-LTV-3000%20ON

And the last line in the writeup reads:

"And try to think of one reason why you do not deserve to have this superb television set."

I can, and it's two lines above it:

"Integrated NTSC 181-channel PLL dual tuner with auto tuning."

So, HVS is right...it has no ATSC, or digital tuner, and it doesn't tune QAM, either.
You'll need to get an external box (cable or over-the-air with 720p/1080i capability) to see a true HDTV signal. Having said that, the display is probably awesome, but it needs to be fed a true HD signal to bring out its beauty.

I would recommend the Samsung DTB-H260F over-the air tuner at Circuit City or Best Buy (call ahead to make sure they have them in stock, they're hot right now),
or rent an HDTV box from Comcast. Until then, there's no way your TV can display channels in HD. Sorry. :(

Hi, I'm totally new at this. I live in Mishawaka, IN. I've just gotten a Philips MANT510 antenna to go with my Prima 30" 1080i CRT HDTV, Model #HT3061P. I've hooked up my antenna, but it looks like I'm only getting signals in Standard Definition, which doesn't look very good at all on my bargain price HDTV. I'm not sure if the antenna is malfunctioning, or if my TV just isn't made to accept HD signals through its coaxial hook-up. Needless to say, I don't know much about HD terminology like QAM, etc. If anyone has any knowledge to offer, I'd be really grateful to read it. Thanks in advance...

When you change the channels are you getting just whole numbers (2,5,7,9, etc) or does it display 2-0,2-1,5-0,5-1,5-2,,etc).
If you just see whole numbers, you have a NTSC/Analog tuner. You are not receiving digital channels. You will need, as the other reply mentioned, an external digital tuner to receive SD or HD digital channels.

The antenna is generic to analog verse digital channels. Digital signals are being broadcast the same way analog are..that is to say, the antenna can pick both up. The antenna doesnt know the difference. It picks up a frequency and it is up to a tuner to decode it. You have to have a analog/NTSC tuner for the 'old' TV signals and a digital/ATSC tuner for the new digital channels. (Note: When you see an antenna box marked 'certified for digital' or 'certified for HD'...it is just marketing. An old antenna from 60's (UHF/VHF) would pick up a HD/Digital channel of today. The available TV spectrum hasen't changed (except for getting smaller).

QAM is the type of signal sent by the cable company. If you had a QAM tuner then you could hook up your line from the cable company and decode the digital (non-scrambled) channels without a cable box. If you wanted to decode the scrambled channels (movie channels), your set would also need a cable card slot. You then rent a cable card from the cable company (instead of a cable box) and your QAM TV would be able to get all of the cable companies channels (that you subscribed to, of course).

If you were buying a set today you should look for:

1080p to cover all types of signals. The 'p' being the key here, refering to the scan type. (TV stations broadcast either 720p or 1080i. The new Hi-Def HD DVD's are 1080p).

Resolution of 1920x1080 which is the highest resolution currently available in broadcast or consumer signals. If your TV only goes up to 720p then it will scale down a 1080 picture just as a 1080 scales up a 720 picture). [Side note: If you want the best/sharpest picture, choose a resolution suited to the signal source so that the picture will be un-scaled. If your a die-hard Fox/ABC fan get a set with a resolution of 720 and you will see the picture in its native (un-scaled) form. If you mainly watch CBS/NBC/PBS then you want a 1080 resolution for the best possible picture. That way, your 'lesser-watched' signal will be the scaled one.]

NTSC, ATSC & QAM tuner (To cover all available signals you might stumble across). [A 'dish' type of system will still need their box].

Cable card slot (If you do not want to have an external cable box).[Note: Some features like the interactive guide may not be availble with a Cable Card].

A HDMI/HDCP connector. The HDMI will be used going forward to connect HD devices to your set. (If you have an external audio amp then the TV/monitor might have a DVI connector). The 'HDCP' refers to the digital rights management scheme that is being adapted by most content providers. If your set is not compliant to that it *may* not be able to playback some content going forward.

As for your antenna, you would need one rated for your area based on the distance from the stations. (See antennaweb.org for more info). A coat hanger could workif your very near the stations antennas. Many of the indoor/top-of-set antenna work very good for digital if you are within a city. (They just look ugly). For an outdoor, I like the new flat-plane antenna from Weinguard. The rule of thumb is double your physical miles. So if you are 45 physical miles from the farthest tower, get an antenna rated for 90 miles. If your only interrested in digital you can go about 3/4. So the same 45 miles could get away with a 75 mile rated antenna.

thumbs up for VideoTech's informative post!

Just curious, how much it will cost to rent/buy a cable card from Comcast?

OK folks got some good news. Transmitters/antennas are on their way. Here is our ROUGH game plan. Weather permitting and no unforseen problems, we hope to have WBND-LD and WCWW-LD by August 1st. WMYS-LD about 30 days after that. Please keep in mind this is our goal and not a committed date to sign on. Updates will follow and maybe some pictures.

Notre Dame @ Penn State 09/08/07
You're allowed to be off by about 5 weeks. :) (Assuming ABC gets the game.)

Wooooooo Hooooooo !!!!! :)

No more cropped programming!

Wooooooo Hooooooo !!!!! :)

No more cropped programming!
I guess we have no more excuses. :D

Finally! I won't have to hear my wife complain about missing extreme home makeover anymore :)

(I convinced her we didn't need to spring for Dish Network's locals when we have a perfectly good ATSC tuner)

Finally! I won't have to hear my wife complain about missing extreme home makeover anymore :)

(I convinced her we didn't need to spring for Dish Network's locals when we have a perfectly good ATSC tuner)
If only my wife was that understanding. :D

OK folks got some good news. Transmitters/antennas are on their way. Here is our ROUGH game plan. Weather permitting and no unforseen problems, we hope to have WBND-LD and WCWW-LD by August 1st. WMYS-LD about 30 days after that. Please keep in mind this is our goal and not a committed date to sign on. Updates will follow and maybe some pictures.Woo-hoo! I haven't been in here for a while, and I come today and see the news I've been waiting for! Great news, HVS (if I can call you that, seems kinds familiar instead of hvs10trk...;))

I expect to see good signal quality as I'm maybe two miles from your tower. It will be a race to see who here posts the first "I've got Digital ABC" entry!

Woo-hoo! I haven't been in here for a while, and I come today and see the news I've been waiting for! Great news, HVS (if I can call you that, seems kinds familiar instead of hvs10trk...;))
HVS is fine. :)

I expect to see good signal quality as I'm maybe two miles from your tower. It will be a race to see who here posts the first "I've got Digital ABC" entry!
I think I can beat everyone to that. :D I'll play fair and just post when we sign on.

Cable subs not eligible to win. :)

Hmmm ... I wonder how long I can leave my tuner set on channel 49 waiting for a signal (although I'm really looking for 27). It will be interesting to see how well WBND-LD works on the channel next to WHME-DT. Digital adjacent to analog seems to work well ... analog adjacents not so well.

Foxbat, you're nominated to stalk (er "watch") the site for activity, since you are closer. :D
(Mike Lang and I are further away, in opposite directions.)

Foxbat, you're nominated to stalk (er "watch") the site for activity, since you are closer. :D
(Mike Lang and I are further away, in opposite directions.)
LOL

ABC in HD hmm dont know if i can handle all those college football games in HD i may have to pace myself ....

ABC in HD hmm dont know if i can handle all those college football games in HD i may have to pace myself ....
Breathe Dakanez, breathe. :D

I don't suppose there is any chance that WBND-DT will be on the air for the Indianapolis 500, is there? http://www.indy500.com/news/story.php?story_id=8798

Didn't think so... :(

Not unless the race is rain delayed until August. :)

I don't suppose there is any chance that WBND-DT will be on the air for the Indianapolis 500, is there? http://www.indy500.com/news/story.php?story_id=8798

Didn't think so... :(
Nope. Sorry. :(

I typically watch WSBT OTA because my Moto cable box will freeze randomly on ch 189. Lately, the signal quality seems very poor. I'm watching the last King of Queens and the audio is choppy and sometimes the picture freezes. As I type this the screen went completely black for a second. Anyone else having these kinds of problems?

I've had OTA issues with WSBT for about 2-3 days now. Wasnt sure if it was my antenna or not, but it would seem not. It appears as if my signal strength is about 20 points lower as well.

I've also seen drop outs on WSBT over the last couple days. I have three separate tuners in the house and all are acting the same. If my antenna needs a tweak I can still usually watch on my Samsung box as it seems to be more sensitive than the Dish OTA tuners.

can anyone recap in layman's terms what new channels are coming late summer? ABC in hi-def, and some others in lo-def?

What's the story with WNDU's zoom/crop on the 4:3 stuff? Is that a local call or does NBC do that everywhere?

can anyone recap in layman's terms what new channels are coming late summer? ABC in hi-def, and some others in lo-def?Coming to what? If you are talking about over the air reception (an antenna) we expect The CW 25 and ABC 57 to be in high definition (same feeds Comcast HD subscribers see) by August and MyTV 69 to be in high definition about a month later. The standard analog versions of these channels will remain on the air - this will give the HD versions to any viewer with an antenna and a digital tuner.

What's the story with WNDU's zoom/crop on the 4:3 stuff? Is that a local call or does NBC do that everywhere?It is a local call. Someone at WNDU thinks that HD viewers expect the screen to be filled with picture so instead of using their channel for one high quality digital feed and allowing the viewer to decide how to stretch it, they reduce the quality of the HD feed to make room for a lower quality SD feed. When I complained a couple of years back I was told that if I wanted an unstretched picture I should view the SD feed.

No one else in the SB market is doing this stretch. CBS (WSBT) and FOX (WSJV) both do a straight upconvert of all their SD programs when HD is not available (with WSBT managing to run two subchannels without the problems seen on WNDU). PBS (WNIT) runs an independent HD/SD service (all HD on the HD channel, local SD on the SD channel - again without WNDU's problems). Independent WHME (Lesea Broadcasting) has only an SD feed on their digital broadcast.

As noted in my post above, the other three networks are going to have HD only feeds ... no wierd stretches ... in a couple of months.

Perhaps the new ownership of WNDU will reconsider the actions of the old and stop this practice.

It is a local call. Someone at WNDU thinks that HD viewers expect the screen to be filled with picture so instead of using their channel for one high quality digital feed and allowing the viewer to decide how to stretch it, they reduce the quality of the HD feed to make room for a lower quality SD feed. When I complained a couple of years back I was told that if I wanted an unstretched picture I should view the SD feed.JL, I, too, asked about this years ago and pretty much got the same answer. At the time, though, 4:3 sets were the norm, and WNDU indicated that the 16.2 was to provide them (4:3 set owners) with the SD feed, but with "digital quality". In other words, bit-starved and affected by MPEG compression artifacts...

I think 16.1 would be greatly improved if WNDU's owners would pony up the $$$ for a new HD encoder. I believe they have been running with the same encoder since WNDU-DT went on the air. I think it is also time to cut 16.2 and devote the full ATSC bitstream to 16.1.

Last Thursday night was ridiculous. WNDU was asleep at the HD switch and the whole evening's HD lineup was presented in 14:9 Stretch-o-rama.

Last Thursday night was ridiculous. WNDU was asleep at the HD switch and the whole evening's HD lineup was presented in 14:9 Stretch-o-rama.It wasn't just last Thursday ... I wonder if stretchvision is confusing the master control operators?

Personally I consider stretchvision a fraud on the viewer and appreciate stations that do not participate in the fraud. Knowing that there are non-decision makers reading these threads that may consider that an insult I'll stop there. I know what it is like to be the guy that has to do something that is against my judgement but is the decision of someone above me. :(

Perhaps the new ownership of WNDU will reconsider the actions of the old and stop this practice.

I think we all need to chip in and buy WNDU a VP50. :)

It wasn't just last Thursday ... I wonder if stretchvision is confusing the master control operators?

Personally I consider stretchvision a fraud on the viewer and appreciate stations that do not participate in the fraud. Knowing that there are non-decision makers reading these threads that may consider that an insult I'll stop there. I know what it is like to be the guy that has to do something that is against my judgement but is the decision of someone above me. :(

Not to mention that the 14:9 aspect they are using not only gives you a stretched picture but the black bars are still present.

I just don't see the point.

Not to mention that the 14:9 aspect they are using not only gives you a stretched picture but the black bars are still present.

I just don't see the point.

Actually if you have an older HDTV that has more overscan than newer tv's (like older CRT HDTVs) then the black bars don't show up. I used to have an old 1080i CRT and there were no black bars.

Although I don't like their decision to do the 14:9 aspect, I think they're trying to minimalize overburn on some TVs.

We're still shooting for 8/1 for WCWW/WBND-DT. (Pending weather and delivery delays). We've gotten some new equipment for our transmission path to the transmitter site so far.

Thanks for the update.

has anyone hooked up an HDTV tuner in their PC and gotten the QAM channels via comcast? if so, what's the trick? my card/program won't tune to them.

has anyone hooked up an HDTV tuner in their PC and gotten the QAM channels via comcast? if so, what's the trick? my card/program won't tune to them.
Well your computer card has to have a QAM tuner. I'd look up the specs on the card. If it has a QAM tuner then you should be able to get in the clear channels from Comcast.

CW HD & ABC HD are gone from Comcast?

Used to be 80.3 , 80.4 in my TV, but now I got nothing, still be able to get the other basic HD channels from Comcast though.

CW HD & ABC HD are gone from Comcast?

Used to be 80.3 , 80.4 in my TV, but now I got nothing, still be able to get the other basic HD channels from Comcast though.
You're not going crazy. It's in the process of being fixed.

You're not going crazy. It's in the process of being fixed.


Thanks for let me know. Seems this problem (or the fixing) has been there for at least a week or two, hopefully it will finish soon. NBA final won't be as good if it is only on ABC SD.

Hello everyone.
I live in Granger and have Comcast.
I have a couple TVs hooked up with the 3416 HD cable boxs.
I have a 3rd tv in a bedroom that I dont have a HD box hooked up to, but have it hooked up via coax to regular cable. It is a HD tv.
What HD channels can I expect to get without a HD box? Is there a list of HD channels anywhere?
Thanks for the help.

Thanks for let me know. Seems this problem (or the fixing) has been there for at least a week or two, hopefully it will finish soon. NBA final won't be as good if it is only on ABC SD.
Fixed. It's been that way since thursday. (at least that we knew about) :eek:

Fixed. It's been that way since thursday. (at least that we knew about) :eek:


Checked 80.4 last night, still no signal.
So.... I will live without ABC HD and CW HD in the near future?

Checked 80.4 last night, still no signal.
So.... I will live without ABC HD and CW HD in the near future?
Well as far as Comcast tells us, it's fixed. Try a re-scan. Maybe the channel mappings changed??

Well as far as Comcast tells us, it's fixed. Try a re-scan. Maybe the channel mappings changed??


I did a re-scan last night, still no go. BTW, I am using a HDTV with built in QAM. Is it possible that comcast move those 2 channels out of my QAM tuner range? Also, I remember those 2 channels were gone for a while about 2 weeks ago, I called comcast to arrange a tech visit, then that morning I did a scan, those channels were back, so I cancelled the appointment. A week later, They are gone again...

I did a re-scan last night, still no go. BTW, I am using a HDTV with built in QAM. Is it possible that comcast move those 2 channels out of my QAM tuner range? Also, I remember those 2 channels were gone for a while about 2 weeks ago, I called comcast to arrange a tech visit, then that morning I did a scan, those channels were back, so I cancelled the appointment. A week later, They are gone again...
Its quite possible the QAM signal level going to your TV is borderline usable to the tuner. This happens quite frequently with QAM tuners. I have to rig up some funky wiring to get WBBM-DT here in chicago if I need it. (super bowl)

Its quite possible the QAM signal level going to your TV is borderline usable to the tuner. This happens quite frequently with QAM tuners. I have to rig up some funky wiring to get WBBM-DT here in chicago if I need it. (super bowl)

You are the man! I re-wired my cable lines to get rid of one splitter, guess what, bang! Those two channels are back, although with a signal strength of 90 out of 100, which is still not great, but at least I can enjoy the TV for now.

Thanks a lot for your help! Cheers!

On channel 112.1 I can get TNT HD, but unfortunately there is no sound. The picture is beautiful. Anyone else in the Granger, South Bend, Elkhart area have this problem? Is there another channel that I can get TNT HD with sound?
Are the ESPN HD channels available? I also seem to be able to get on demand channels on 87.2 thru 87.10, but there is no ryme or reason to them. Sometimes there is a signal, sometimes there isnt. Any ideas why?

I can get the following HD channels:

1) 16.1 NBC
2) 22.1 CBS
3) 28.2 Fox
4) 34.2 WNIT
5) 80.3 The CW
6) 80.4 ABC
7) 112.1 TNT no sound

PS I have the Comcast cable hooked up thru coax to the tv.

On channel 112.1 I can get TNT HD, but unfortunately there is no sound. The picture is beautiful. Anyone else in the Granger, South Bend, Elkhart area have this problem? Is there another channel that I can get TNT HD with sound?
Are the ESPN HD channels available? I also seem to be able to get on demand channels on 87.2 thru 87.10, but there is no ryme or reason to them. Sometimes there is a signal, sometimes there isnt. Any ideas why?

I can get the following HD channels:

1) 16.1 NBC
2) 22.1 CBS
3) 28.2 Fox
4) 34.2 WNIT
5) 80.3 The CW
6) 80.4 ABC
7) 112.1 TNT no sound
Pretty much the only things available in the clear are OTA DTV. There are some random channels (HD and SD) that are available as well but some have no audio and most are encrypted.

On channel 112.1 I can get TNT HD, but unfortunately there is no sound. The picture is beautiful. Anyone else in the Granger, South Bend, Elkhart area have this problem? Is there another channel that I can get TNT HD with sound?
Are the ESPN HD channels available? I also seem to be able to get on demand channels on 87.2 thru 87.10, but there is no ryme or reason to them. Sometimes there is a signal, sometimes there isnt. Any ideas why?

I can get the following HD channels:

1) 16.1 NBC
2) 22.1 CBS
3) 28.2 Fox
4) 34.2 WNIT
5) 80.3 The CW
6) 80.4 ABC
7) 112.1 TNT no sound

PS I have the Comcast cable hooked up thru coax to the tv.


You are not alone. My 112.1 is also soundless. You may use another TV at channel 52, which will give you sound, however, they are sync together, there is a several seconds delay there. (I tried this method, won't solve any problem except bringing more headache)

I guess if you really want TNT HD and some other HD channels, Comcast want more green papers from your wallet.

As for 87.2-87.10, I guess they are on demand channels viewed by your neighbors?

You are not alone. My 112.1 is also soundless. You may use another TV at channel 52, which will give you sound, however, they are sync together, there is a several seconds delay there. (I tried this method, won't solve any problem except bringing more headache)

I guess if you really want TNT HD and some other HD channels, Comcast want more green papers from your wallet.

As for 87.2-87.10, I guess they are on demand channels viewed by your neighbors?
It's the same way in Chicago.

We are still on target to begin construction around the last 2 weeks of July. (Again weather and tower crew pending) Aug 1st is our target date but please keep in mind there are many varibles that can work against us. (So pray for no rain the end of July) :D

We'll keep an eye out ... four weeks to the window! :)

We are still on target to begin construction around the last 2 weeks of July. (Again weather and tower crew pending) Aug 1st is our target date but please keep in mind there are many varibles that can work against us. (So pray for no rain the end of July) :D


God please no rain there is ND football coming.....

Football?? What about Nascar? ABC starts up this fall also.

NASCAR? Yeah, that would be nice, but did anyone else see the U.S. Garnd Prix in HD on FOX? Talk about Stealth Advertising!

I keep on meaning to drive over to the transmitter site to get a "before" picture of WBND/WCWW/WMYS's tower, but it hasn't happened yet.

NASCAR? Yeah, that would be nice, but did anyone else see the U.S. Garnd Prix in HD on FOX? Talk about Stealth Advertising!

I keep on meaning to drive over to the transmitter site to get a "before" picture of WBND/WCWW/WMYS's tower, but it hasn't happened yet.
I think I will be out there for the installs. If you don't get one I'll see what I can get before hand.

Football?? What about Nascar? ABC starts up this fall also.
NASCAR on ABC?!?!?!? Sweet!

NASCAR? Yeah, that would be nice, but did anyone else see the U.S. Garnd Prix in HD on FOX? Talk about Stealth Advertising!


It wasn't HD only Widescreen 480P, still better than the 4:3 480i feed.

It wasn't HD only Widescreen 480P, still better than the 4:3 480i feed.You know, I wondered about that. I know the Speedway can handle HD cameras, so I wondered if Fox Sports/Speed might not have put in a few HD feeds in addition to the 480i feeds from the in-car cameras. If it was 480p (the old FauxHD) then it was still far better than the overly-compressed feed on Speed that I get from DishNetwork.

Sorry about the "Garnd Prix" instead of Grand Prix... My fingers weren't fully awake... :o

We're making progress. The antennas, transmission line, and all necessary hardware are now on-site. At the moment, we are aimed at the last 2 weeks of July for installation.

We're making progress. The antennas, transmission line, and all necessary hardware are now on-site. At the moment, we are aimed at the last 2 weeks of July for installation.


That is great.. so we are looking at august for the first broadcast or ...?

That is great.. so we are looking at august for the first broadcast or ...?
Yeah most likely mid-august. Tower climbers have a TON of hangers to mount. Gonna take them a week or so to mount 'em. As long as Mother Nature cooperates we should be on target. Even in inclement weather we can still work inside.

We're making progress. The antennas, transmission line, and all necessary hardware are now on-site. At the moment, we are aimed at the last 2 weeks of July for installation.

Since it is all there, let me ask a silly, stupid, ridiculous, out-of-bounds, crazy, whacked question:

Why not start now, since it's all there? Tower climbers don't have anything to do now that the digital transition is complete. :D

It isn't always easy to get a crew (a good one) to drop everything for a few weeks to get a job done. You might be able to get a crew for a day if that is all you need and you beg or pay them enough to bump someone else. :)

(From your smilie I'll assume you knew that! :D)

This is three HDTV antennas and coax that will deliver enough power to create 15kw ERP for each. Probably something bigger than 1/2" foam going up on that tower. (2 1/4" ? 3" ? 4" ?)

HJ12-50 2 1/4" weighs 1.16 lb per foot (that's about 1100 pounds of cable for WCWW at 292m) ... but it will not handle the power needed.
HJ8-50 3" weighs 1.78 lb per foot (1700 pounds) and could handle the power if the antenna gain is good enough.
The next step would be HJ11-50 4" coax ... 2.5 lbs per foot (yes, 2400 pounds or a ton of cable) and able to handle the power.

Hanging coax that weighs that much isn't trivial ... I can understand why they would want to put the hangers (clamps that hold the coax to the tower) on the tower first then come back and do the heavy lifting. (And with three coax runs total, hangers every couple of feet (can't find the reference but I believe it is every three or four feet) for antennas at 900 to 1000ft.

A couple of weeks work would be a good estimate. :)

More info ...
Here is the antenna for WCWW on 27 (pdf (http://dielectric.com/broadcast/brochures/TLP-brochure.pdf)) - look at the TLP-12A in the bottom chart. 10.8dB gain isn't bad.
That's the easy one to mount. The other two are directional and have to be done just right. a TLP-8M for WBND on 49 and TLP-12F for WMYS on 23.

On further review it looks like the 2 1/4" or 3" coax would work (a good thing) so not a ton of cable (unless one counts all of the runs, then you're at three tons including NTSC).

It isn't always easy to get a crew (a good one) to drop everything for a few weeks to get a job done. You might be able to get a crew for a day if that is all you need and you beg or pay them enough to bump someone else. :)

(From your smilie I'll assume you knew that! :D)

This is three HDTV antennas and coax that will deliver enough power to create 15kw ERP for each. Probably something bigger than 1/2" foam going up on that tower. (2 1/4" ? 3" ? 4" ?)

HJ12-50 2 1/4" weighs 1.16 lb per foot (that's about 1100 pounds of cable for WCWW at 292m) ... but it will not handle the power needed.
HJ8-50 3" weighs 1.78 lb per foot (1700 pounds) and could handle the power if the antenna gain is good enough.
The next step would be HJ11-50 4" coax ... 2.5 lbs per foot (yes, 2400 pounds or a ton of cable) and able to handle the power.

Hanging coax that weighs that much isn't trivial ... I can understand why they would want to put the hangers (clamps that hold the coax to the tower) on the tower first then come back and do the heavy lifting. (And with three coax runs total, hangers every couple of feet (can't find the reference but I believe it is every three or four feet) for antennas at 900 to 1000ft.

A couple of weeks work would be a good estimate. :)
Are you my boss in disguise? :D We just had this discussion at our last engineering meeting. We're utilizing 3 and 4" flex line. Don't remember off the top of my head who gets who. Oh yeah and did I mention heliax of that diameter had the flexiblity of a 2x4!! :eek:

You can bend 3" around a 30" radius ... 4" requires 40" radius. Which explains why the spools are so big in the center.

Fun stuff. I have some 3" in my office on display.

You can bend 3" around a 30" radius ... 4" requires 40" radius. Which explains why the spools are so big in the center.

Fun stuff. I have some 3" in my office on display.

What? You mean you can't run quad-shield RG-6 800' up the tower and throw
on 1kw transmitter power output and be done with it? :D

Slip the tower climbers a gift certificate to Best Buy for a new HDTV. Betcha they head up the tower yesterday! :D

Slip the tower climbers a gift certificate to Best Buy for a new HDTV. Betcha they head up the tower yesterday! :DWe already pay them enough that they could buy an HDTV on a day's wages. :(
Then again, the climbers are probably the cheapest part of the job.

I try not to think of how many months/years salary I spend on something as "simple" as putting a station on the air - and keeping it there. As long as management keep paying me to spend the money I'll keep on doing it. :)

You can bend 3" around a 30" radius ... 4" requires 40" radius. Which explains why the spools are so big in the center.

Fun stuff. I have some 3" in my office on display.
Were stopping the big stuff right inside the trans room and stepping down smaller so we don't have to wrestle with it and get it around the bends easier.

We already pay them enough that they could buy an HDTV on a day's wages. :(
Then again, the climbers are probably the cheapest part of the job.

I try not to think of how many months/years salary I spend on something as "simple" as putting a station on the air - and keeping it there. As long as management keep paying me to spend the money I'll keep on doing it. :)
I like the way you think. :D

What? You mean you can't run quad-shield RG-6 800' up the tower and throw
on 1kw transmitter power output and be done with it? :D

Slip the tower climbers a gift certificate to Best Buy for a new HDTV. Betcha they head up the tower yesterday! :DBetter yet, just mount the transmitter at the top. Save big time on the Flex run. :eek:

Better yet, just mount the transmitter at the top. Save big time on the Flex run. :eek:

Actually, I just thought of something, but I assume it can't be done, otherwise, you would have done it---

I assume that due to the wide spacing of the frequencies you'll be broadcasting on, diplexing or triplexing into just one or two antennas won't work?

Were stopping the big stuff right inside the trans room and stepping down smaller so we don't have to wrestle with it and get it around the bends easier.We have a few 90° elbows in the system. One at the base of the tower, two on the top of the patch panel (with a U shaped patch that we can use to swap the antenna over to a second transmitter or test equipment) then hardline to a 90° on top of the transmitter.

With six live transmitters to deal with (until February 2009) that shack is going to be hopping!Actually, I just thought of something, but I assume it can't be done, otherwise, you would have done it---

I assume that due to the wide spacing of the frequencies you'll be broadcasting on, diplexing or triplexing into just one or two antennas won't work?Some sites will run combined antennas ... but the expense can make it prohibitive.

In this case the biggest reason not to use a combined antenna is that they don't all have the same pattern. LD 23 and LD 49 are directional with different patterns, LD 27 is non-directional. WCWW-LP 25, WBND-LP 57 and WMYS-LP 69 are also directional patterns.

We have a few 90° elbows in the system. One at the base of the tower, two on the top of the patch panel (with a U shaped patch that we can use to swap the antenna over to a second transmitter or test equipment) then hardline to a 90° on top of the transmitter.

With six live transmitters to deal with (until February 2009) that shack is going to be hopping!Some sites will run combined antennas ... but the expense can make it prohibitive.

In this case the biggest reason not to use a combined antenna is that they don't all have the same pattern. LD 23 and LD 49 are directional with different patterns, LD 27 is non-directional. WCWW-LP 25, WBND-LP 57 and WMYS-LP 69 are also directional patterns.
That's pretty much our setup minus the 90's. Definately going to be hopping. Got extra air conditioning coming in and everything.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but this is the only AVS forum thread I subscribe to and I needed input from the locals (South Bend and surrounding areas.) I just recently got Comcast Cable and got on one of the digital packages which includes the Encore channels. Well I got a nasty little surprise as a Windows Media Center user.. Those channels that I am paying good money for are being blocked! They work for a few seconds then I get a message about rights restrictions. I just wanted to know if anyone else in the area are having problems with premium channels, namely from those that are using DVR's other than Comcast's. Somehow I don't think I'm the only one being restricted from recording or even just playing back premium channels I should otherwise be getting.

Although this may not be the proper topic for my inquiry, this can apply to HDTV even over the air.. With that said, I wonder if anyone has been bitten by the broadcast flag OTA yet. I find this whole broadcast flag thing to be really disturbing.

Oh I should mention that for the first couple of weeks the premiums were working just fine on my Media Center box.. I found out just today they are now restricted.

A Comcast tech stopped by today and even he seemed to be confused. However we both agreed that it wasn't Comcast but the premium tv channels that raised the broadcast flag. Apparently within the past couple of weeks, MS must have applied a Media Center update that raised the broadcast flag.. The signal to enable the flag was there all along as I found recordings from the affected channels would give me the same restriction notice.

Now let me ask a question that would be fitting here.. Does anyone know (yes I'm speaking to the local broadcasters) if any of the national broadcast networks employ the broadcast flag on over the air signals? It would be awful if I could no longer watch what I want when I want just because the content providers feel I have to watch content on their schedule and only with a regular TV or a crappy DVR provided by my local cable company.

A Comcast tech stopped by today and even he seemed to be confused. However we both agreed that it wasn't Comcast but the premium tv channels that raised the broadcast flag. Apparently within the past couple of weeks, MS must have applied a Media Center update that raised the broadcast flag.. The signal to enable the flag was there all along as I found recordings from the affected channels would give me the same restriction notice.

Now let me ask a question that would be fitting here.. Does anyone know (yes I'm speaking to the local broadcasters) if any of the national broadcast networks employ the broadcast flag on over the air signals? It would be awful if I could no longer watch what I want when I want just because the content providers feel I have to watch content on their schedule and only with a regular TV or a crappy DVR provided by my local cable company.
ABC doesn't send anything down the HD pipe. At least not yet. I don't believe any of the other networks send down flags. I'll peer into CW HD and see whats there as well.

ABC doesn't send anything down the HD pipe. At least not yet. I don't believe any of the other networks send down flags. I'll peer into CW HD and see whats there as well.

Thankyou sir! BTW I found a fix for my problem and yes it's a very legal hack as your not circumventing the copy protection... In fact the hack is a simplified version of the one that MS instructs you to do.


http://www.pcabusers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=45131

I had to deviate from the instruction by going into safe mode, as Windows was being vigilant and wouldn't let me delete the license keys. Otherwise this fix worked like a charm. I'm still not thrilled about this, but at least I can watch and record my movies now.

Luckily when I was just picking up OTA I hadn't had any issues with the broadcast flag cropping up. However I'm still concerned about that as I'll soon have my out door antenna installed so I can pick up the local OTA digital channels.

Speaking about having an out door antenna installed, who can I contact to have that professionally installed? The guy I live with will only let me have the outdoor antenna installed if I get a "professional" to do it. I don't have the first clue on who to look up. I'm hoping one of you yahoo's would jump at the chance to do this for me. I'd really like to get someone that knows how to narrow down the local signals real good. :) Hey I can't blame him for wanting it done right as it is a new house and all.

We've encountered our first minor equipment delay. We are now penciled in to start first week in August. Tower work will begin around the same time. If you haven't gotten any "before" pics, get 'em now while she's still bare! :D

We've encountered our first minor equipment delay. We are now penciled in to start first week in August. Tower work will begin around the same time. If you haven't gotten any "before" pics, get 'em now while she's still bare! :D

Aw, HVS, I am so disappointed you didn't ask us before you said that. Now who here has a Phillips screwdriver? :D

Do any of you get Comcast sportnet in hdtv from Directv???

We've encountered our first minor equipment delay. We are now penciled in to start first week in August. Tower work will begin around the same time. If you haven't gotten any "before" pics, get 'em now while she's still bare! :DI'd say that the climbers would be happy not to be up the tower during these next two weeks of sauna ... but it's likely they will just be up someone else's tower.

I'd say that the climbers would be happy not to be up the tower during these next two weeks of sauna ... but it's likely they will just be up someone else's tower.
I could always set up a sprinkler at the top for them. :D

I could always set up a sprinkler at the top for them. :DNow you've got me calculating the weight of the hose and the amount of pressure needed to raise the water to the top of the tower. Also the weight of the water in the hose. I wonder if a garden hose would pop before one would be able to push water through a 1000ft+ vertical run? (Most hose probably would stretch apart under the weight of the rest of the hose.)

Am I taking this too seriously? :)

Now you've got me calculating the weight of the hose and the amount of pressure needed to raise the water to the top of the tower. Also the weight of the water in the hose. I wonder if a garden hose would pop before one would be able to push water through a 1000ft+ vertical run? (Most hose probably would stretch apart under the weight of the rest of the hose.)

Am I taking this too seriously? :)
LMAO!!!! No not at all. You think like an engineer. :D That would be an interresting calculation. We should submit that to Mythbusters!!!!

Now you've got me calculating the weight of the hose and the amount of pressure needed to raise the water to the top of the tower. Also the weight of the water in the hose. I wonder if a garden hose would pop before one would be able to push water through a 1000ft+ vertical run? (Most hose probably would stretch apart under the weight of the rest of the hose.)

Am I taking this too seriously? :)
445psi. :D Do I hear a BOOM!!!! :eek:

More info ...
Here is the antenna for WCWW on 27 - look at the TLP-12A in the bottom chart. 10.8dB gain isn't bad.
That's the easy one to mount. The other two are directional and have to be done just right. a TLP-8M for WBND on 49 and TLP-12F for WMYS on 23.

On further review it looks like the 2 1/4" or 3" coax would work (a good thing) so not a ton of cable (unless one counts all of the runs, then you're at three tons including NTSC).


I notice you mention WBND will be directional. What directions? Please say you have a lobe towards the east!!!

Quoted from March 21st:For reference:
WMYS 23 LD (69 LP) will be at 284m above the ground (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154618.html))
WCWW 27 LD (25 LP) will be at 292m (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154688.html))
WBND 49 LD (57 LP) will be at 304m (coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1154628.html) )

WMYS 69 is at 296.9m, WBND 57 is at 310.9m and WCWW 25 is at 321.3m.
(Looks like they will have 60ft of empty stick at the top in 2009. Lease space?)

The best signal is going to WCWW ... a nice non-directional circle covering most of the area. WMYS and WBND are directional. If you look at the coverage above note that it is a prediction and reception is likely outside the blue circles. It is just the way the FCC estimates coverage.

Legally all three can be built as the application states --- the only legal hurdle would be if they wanted to change something. Other than that it is just the usual time and money argument (and it seems that the money is committed). It should be just a matter of buying and scheduling now.Yep, they have good coverage of WBND planned for the East. :)

(BTW: I'm not them, I'm just interested in TV and broadcast in general.)

Quoted from March 21st:Yep, they have good coverage of WBND planned for the East. :)

(BTW: I'm not them, I'm just interested in TV and broadcast in general.)

What I am trying to figure out is why WBND isn't the one with the best coverage. No offense to the CW, but ABC will be watched far more than the CW will, at leats in the reasonable future. The only things I can think of are:

1. Restricted signal to the west so as not to tick off WLS.

2. They'll swap calls and put WBND/ABC on the best station once construction is completed.

3. HVS, exhausted and mentally drained from calculating how much water pressure it would take to turn their broadcast tower into the world's largest garden sprinkler, made a mistake on the FCC apps and put the calls on the stations in the wrong order. :D

WMYS viewers are the ones that will lose the most under the new arrangement ... some areas where WMYS-LP 69 covers are not covered by WMYS-LD 23. (They will gain areas toward St Joseph/Benton Harbor and Michigan City/LaPorte but lose areas near Goshen.) WBND-LD 49 is an improvement over WBND-LP 57. Fighting against WLS for viewers in LaPorte isn't worth giving up coverage on WCWW-LD 27 (which is also an improvement over the already decent WCWW-LP 25).

Given the choice, I'd probably go the same way that the powers that be went with the three signals.

I notice you mention WBND will be directional. What directions? Please say you have a lobe towards the east!!!
Well right now they're oriented towards the ground. :D Sorry, couldn't resist.

Thanks for the info and the coverage maps. Looks like Lagrange is just outside the zone. Bet I'll be fine though, 8' of UHF antenna really pulls in the signal!

Here are the beginning of the construction pics. Everything is still on the ground.......but not for long. :D

So where exactly is this?

So where exactly is this?
At our tower site.

At our tower site.
I figured that. :)
But where is it? I may do a drive by if I'm in the area.

I figured that. :)
But where is it? I may do a drive by if I'm in the area.
Bremen Highway (331) just south of Jackson Rd. Unfortunately we're tucked back in the woods pretty good. Its the closest one on the west side of the road.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.614953,-86.18174&z=16&hl=en&t=h

Not exactly one of the easy sites to roll up to. (Which is really good.)

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.614953,-86.18174&z=16&hl=en&t=h

Not exactly one of the easy sites to roll up to. (Which is really good.)
Especially in the winter!!! Slid off into the farmers field one winter.

Because I don't want to go back and read this entire thread (I'm lazy), can someone clarify what exactly is happening with ABC 57 in South Bend? Will there be over-the-air HD programming soon?

yes

Likely in September ... one doesn't have to read too far back to see that the antenna installs have been pushed into early August. Then it is just a matter of doing the right wiring to get it all to work!

Likely in September ... one doesn't have to read too far back to see that the antenna installs have been pushed into early August. Then it is just a matter of doing the right wiring to get it all to work!
Well I'd aim more for end of august for on-air date. We're moving the WMYS-LD transmitter on thursday from Chicago. Everything is looking on target!!! :)

Because I don't want to go back and read this entire thread (I'm lazy), can someone clarify what exactly is happening with ABC 57 in South Bend? Will there be over-the-air HD programming soon?
Yep. We're installing WBND-LD, WCWW-LD, and WMYS-LD the first full week in August. (Tower installs are pending weather of course)

That is awesome ... just in time for Football season!!!

Yep. We're installing WBND-LD, WCWW-LD, and WMYS-LD the first full week in August. (Tower installs are pending weather of course)

Are you guys in contact with companies like Tribune Media Services who provide program listings? They'll need the new info so that viewers are able to schedule recordings on their TiVos, etc.

Are you guys in contact with companies like Tribune Media Services who provide program listings? They'll need the new info so that viewers are able to schedule recordings on their TiVos, etc.
I'll mention it but I'm sure we are.

WMYS-DT (23) transmitter. Had to relocate it from Chicago.

WMYS-DT (23) transmitter. Had to relocate it from Chicago.

But it's empty! Send it back, you got robbed! :D

Seriously though, it's amazing that this thing is so small, and yet, when it hits the air (along with its two sisters), it will go 50 miles plus with a 30' large outdoor antenna, if you are in its main directional lobe.

I like how on the Google photo that justalurker linked to, the antenna extends to the bottom of the picture, but when you look at the houses along 331, they all go the opposite way. Google did a good job stitching the aerial photos together. :rolleyes:

Speaking of weather, we have had drought conditions here in Michiana for six weeks, and now that the antennas and waveguides are on site, the skies open up. ;) What's up with that?

Seriously, though, I'm looking forward to seeing ABC-HD at last. Work safe!

But it's empty! Send it back, you got robbed! :D

Seriously though, it's amazing that this thing is so small, and yet, when it hits the air (along with its two sisters), it will go 50 miles plus with a 30' large outdoor antenna, if you are in its main directional lobe.
We elected to remove the amplifiers before trying to move it. :eek: Their sitting on the floor behind my photo position.

I like how on the Google photo that justalurker linked to, the antenna extends to the bottom of the picture, but when you look at the houses along 331, they all go the opposite way. Google did a good job stitching the aerial photos together. :rolleyes:

Speaking of weather, we have had drought conditions here in Michiana for six weeks, and now that the antennas and waveguides are on site, the skies open up. ;) What's up with that?

Seriously, though, I'm looking forward to seeing ABC-HD at last. Work safe!
The soybeans look good in the field outside the fence. An additional note about that photo, the 2 7ghz microwave antennas that are at the top in the photo, are now towards the bottom!!!