So compared to all other stations; Who else is completely dissatisfied with the HD quality of WNDU/NBC? I've noticed that everything becomes pixelated with motion.

Also, Does anyone else have trouble getting WSBT? It doesn't work every other day, or cuts out a lot for me, but everything is else perfect.

I know in the past that shows like Heroes came in perfect, but if I were to watch something like Nascar Racing on WNDU it looked very pixelated. I've noticed mostly the primetime network stuff looks good. The only thing I don't like about WNDU is how they crop standard def to fit a 16X9 tv.. I'd rather just tune in 16-2 and get the actual perspective as it should look instead of that wonky stretch that looks awful.

I just called WSBT. They have a transmitter down for maintenance, and are transmitting on low power. They are expecting to be back up and running at full power by the end of the month.

I've been having problems with WSBT lately, and as luck would have it, my wife called me at lunch telling me on the noon newscast Mike Collins mentioned that they are transmitting on a low power antenna right now, but will be upgrading next week sometime to a high power. I don't know why it's low right now, she didn't have details. Maybe their website has more info.

Wow I'm surprised to hear that considering they are broadcasting 2 sub channels underneath their main channel. If WSBT can do that on a low power antenna, is there any chance we'll see the same on any of the other 3 channels that actually are low power? I'm just curious if that capability is there although it would be cool if we see even more sub channels crop up. More content is good, right? LOL

That's what the lady told me just now. I still get a good picture, but not consistently like I used to. I was getting so frustrated...well, now we know why.

Has the guide data for the new DT's been sent to Zap2It? That's going to be a big deal for those of us that use Windows Media Center. I think SageTV uses Zap2It as well for their EPG.

You can always add a manual channel, then map the data to the analog station.

I'm out of town this week, can't wait to get home and try it! Thanks for all the hard work!

I'm just north of Middlebury about 25 to 30 miles from the towers. I have a winegard 8-bay antenna and 7777 amp about 50 feet high.

My signal levels:
16--80
22--76
25--76
28--77
34--80
46--79
57--78
69--69

Been working all weekend and finally got a chance to check the levels.

Al

I know in the past that shows like Heroes came in perfect, but if I were to watch something like Nascar Racing on WNDU it looked very pixelated. I've noticed mostly the primetime network stuff looks good. The only thing I don't like about WNDU is how they crop standard def to fit a 16X9 tv.. I'd rather just tune in 16-2 and get the actual perspective as it should look instead of that wonky stretch that looks awful.

What they should do is stop stretching shows on 16-1 and ditch 16-2 all together. What a waste of bandwidth

What they should do is stop stretching shows on 16-1 and ditch 16-2 all together. What a waste of bandwidth

They're also broadcasting 16.3, though there is no programming and some tuners don't bother to autoprogram it. It used to be live weather radar until the station had some technical problem with it - equipment-related if I remember correctly. That might be a real waste of bandwidth, depending on how much they're using to keep the subchannel available. That's an interesting question - if they aren't broadcasting picture or sound on 16.3, how much bandwidth, if any, is the subchannel using?

I get both 57-1 and 69-1 at 95, but cannot get 25-1 on either of my receivers, is this in digital at this time?

I get both 57-1 and 69-1 at 95, but cannot get 25-1 on either of my receivers, is this in digital at this time?

Yes, I am picking up 25.1 just fine....

69.1 is now broadcasting Dolby AC-3 audio. Those who have tuners that could not decode MPEG2 audio should now be happy.

Our programming department added 25.1, 57.1, and 69.1 to the Tribune guide data service. Both DirecTV and DISH use TNS for their guide data. They assured me that it should show up in the next few days.

Am I the only one checking every day to see if these channels have been added to zap2it? Anxiously awaiting....

Am I the only one checking every day to see if these channels have been added to zap2it? Anxiously awaiting....

Nope. I can't do a lot without the guide data on any of the DVR's.

Has 57.1 and 25.1 showed up on the guide data yet?

Has 57.1 and 25.1 showed up on the guide data yet?

Negatory

Nighttime reception of WCWW and WBND roughly 60-70 miles east of the towers is MUCH improved, both hanging around 85%. If the day comes that there's something on the CW I'd actually want to see, it's good to know I might not have to watch WPTA's lousy SD subchannel. :D

Am I the only one checking every day to see if these channels have been added to zap2it? Anxiously awaiting....


No because I'm doing that too! The only channel I can't find a listing for is 69 on the cable EPG. However for some odd reason Vista Media Center seems to be forgetful! Even if I reassign guide listings to the channels I'm getting OTA, for some odd reason they disapear after a while.. I'm guessing this happens whenever the guide data gets updated. This must be a bug in Vista Media Center I assume.

Speaking of Vista Media Center.. Does anyone else here use it and if so do you have any issues with playing digital channels when iTunes is running in the background? For some odd reason I can't use my digital tuners or even view recordings made from the digital tuners when iTunes is running.. Even recording in the back ground won't work.. This has got to be the most annoying bug I've ever encountered.. I can't quite put my finger on it because it may be Vista, Vista's DVD decoder, Video card drivers, TV card drivers (analog and digital), or even the sound system drivers.. The reason I say the sound system is because the current sound driver for the Realtek HD is utter garbage right now.. Well at least for mine anyway. Needless to say I'm not sure who to point my finger at for this issue.. All I know is I need my digital cards and iTunes to be able to peacefully coexist.

I almost forgot to mention what happens when I have iTunes running and try to use my digital tv cards in Media Center.. I'll see about 2-3 frames of still video and then get a error from Media Center about some files possibly being missing and it informs me to just restart Media Center and or Vista. However closing iTunes fixes it every time which is unacceptable.

antennaweb.org doesn't list the new digital channels either

I just thought I'd send a quick update about my iTunes Media Center problem.. It went away oddly enough when I installed the Avermedia television application.. That also reinstalled the driver as well which seemed to fix my problem.. The funny thing is I didn't quite expect that as I was only installing that app out of curiosity.

Well I may have steered off topic a little with my Media Center woes but actually now I'm right back on topic with the Avermedia Television app.. I did a channel scan and for some odd reason 25 didn't show up, but 57 and 69 did.. That's pretty puzzling as it comes up fine in Media Center, but then again Media Center doesn't do a scan, it just grabs the channels from guide data unless you put them in manually. I'll do a scan again later to see if 25 comes up.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since no one replied since my last update I thought I'd just add what I found to this post. I scanned again using the Avermedia application and it still won't allow me to add 25. I even tried to enter it in manually with the frequency 27 but it still refuses to take. Weird! Unfortunatly the Avermedia app doesn't tell you what your signal strength is either.. In fact it's worse than Media Center in that it just shows full bars on every digital channel despite Media Center showing some signal loss on 25 and 57.. Oh by the way I've been getting all green bars on 69 as of late, but not 25 and 57.. Very interesting. :)

anyone else's NBC feed of the ND game god awful? dropped frames or something...

I haven't noticed any issues with NBC's feed.

Our programming department added 25.1, 57.1, and 69.1 to the Tribune guide data service. Both DirecTV and DISH use TNS for their guide data. They assured me that it should show up in the next few days.

Checks calendar, checks TiVo, checks zap2it... :(

69.1 is now broadcasting Dolby AC-3 audio. Those who have tuners that could not decode MPEG2 audio should now be happy.

Our programming department added 25.1, 57.1, and 69.1 to the Tribune guide data service. Both DirecTV and DISH use TNS for their guide data. They assured me that it should show up in the next few days.


Seems to me that somebody dropped the ball on the update!

anyone else's NBC feed of the ND game god awful? dropped frames or something...

Nope, the feed here looks nice.

Has 57.1 and 25.1 showed up on the guide data yet?No EPG data on DishNetwork as of today. There are some ABC-HD programs I'd like to add to my 622's timers list. And Smallville, can't forget that! :)

Regarding WNDU-DT's coverage of the ND game, it's its usual pixelated mess.

I thought I'd share my signal strengths
31.5 miles to tower
16-1 90 SNR-(db)30
22-1 81 SNR-(db)24
25-1 84 SNR-(db)32
28-1 95 SNR-(db)30
34-1 87 SNR-(db)26
46-1 87 SNR-(db)26
57-1 95 SNR-(db)29
69-1 right now bouncing 41-62 SNR-(db)0-16
Yesterday had solid signal 62 do not know SNR And 28-1 had no signal

Thank you

EPG data Tribune Media Services from what I've seen takes about 10 days
New EPG data on DishNetwork is uplinked on Wednesdays if at all
You can still set a manual timer then after its recorded rename Digital Service

anyone else's NBC feed of the ND game god awful? dropped frames or something...

I had a signal strength of 93 but the quality of the pic was pretty bad at the beginning of the game. It did come in crystal clear later in the game.

I thought I'd share my signal strengths
31.5 miles to tower
16-1 90 SNR-(db)30
22-1 81 SNR-(db)24
25-1 84 SNR-(db)32
28-1 95 SNR-(db)30
34-1 87 SNR-(db)26
46-1 87 SNR-(db)26
57-1 95 SNR-(db)29
69-1 right now bouncing 41-62 SNR-(db)0-16
Yesterday had solid signal 62 do not know SNR And 28-1 had no signal

Thank you

EPG data Tribune Media Services from what I've seen takes about 10 days
New EPG data on DishNetwork is uplinked on Wednesdays if at all
You can still set a manual timer then after its recorded rename Digital Service


I have DirecTV and, unless the channel is in the guide, we can not access it, so can't do any manual timer.

Damn! My TiVo HD keeps deleting all 3 channels after a day or two and I have to manually scan for and add them back in only to have them disappear again. I NEED MY GUIDE DATA!!!!! :(

Anyone else lose 57-1

I've lost all 3.

^^^
Same here. Suddenly I've got zero signal on all three digital feeds.

Just some unscheduled testing, I hope?

I've been pimping the idea of Dancing w/ the Stars in HD to my wife for a couple weeks now and it's gone.

EDIT: Even the standard def feed on Directv is now gone!

Lost mine too. This stinks!

I see 57, the regular channel, just fine on DirecTV.

I sent a PM to hvs10trk and we'll see if he responds as to the outage.

I just lost ALL of my OTA channels..... Wanted to get Heroes in HD :(

Lost mine too. This stinks!

I see 57, the regular channel, just fine on DirecTV.


Yeah, the DTV SD version came back after a few minutes.
Still no HD.

I just lost ALL of my OTA channels..... Wanted to get Heroes in HD :(

You using bunny ears?

Yeah, however, yesterday EVERY channel was getting ~ 90 signal strength on my Dish VIP 211

I get digital 16, 22 and 28 through DirecTV. Just waiting for programming to add 25.1, 57.1 and (I doubt that they will since DirecTV doesn't already carry it) 69.1. I also have an OTA rooftop mount.

Just reset the receiver.....
got 'em back
except 25.1, 57.1, 69.1

25-1, 57-1 and 69-1 off the air at 8:45pm?

I, too, have 0 signal on my ViP211 for 25-01, 57-01, and 69-01.

Hello all, :(
As many of you have noted our 3 DTV signals are gone. We are currently finallizing our installation and our construction permits. Unfortunately this was a step we had to take. Please accept our apology for the interruption and rest assured we will be back as soon as humanly possible. Thank you to all that have given us feedback so far.

Hello all, :(
As many of you have noted our 3 DTV signals are gone. We are currently finallizing our installation and our construction permits. Unfortunately this was a step we had to take. Please accept our apology for the interruption and rest assured we will be back as soon as humanly possible. Thank you to all that have given us feedback so far.

Thank you for the update!

I just lost ALL of my OTA channels..... Wanted to get Heroes in HD :(


I wondered what happened.. I was so looking forward to watching Heroes in HD only to have my hopes dashed when I didn't find it on my Media Center PC when I got home. If there weren't others here sleeping, I would have been screaming at the top of my lungs.. Seriously... Well anyway if you don't want to wait for it to re-air this weekend, you can purchase it from Amazon's Unbox service although I don't think that is high def at all.. If it's in the Xbox 360 line up of shows, I may purchase the HD version if it's available... I just hope NBC (especially Heroes) is on Xbox live.. I'll check after I post this..

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I just checked the Xbox.. All of the major tv broadcast networks but NBC is on Xbox Live.. Unbelievable!

---------------------------------------------------------------------


So anywho looks like I'll have to buy it from Amazon's Unbox service as soon as it's available.. Also alternatively you can watch it for free when it becomes available on NBC's site although I think the way NBC streams video stinks.. They need to see see how ABC's streaming video because right now they have the best quality video of any of the tv networks on the net.

Well here's the official NBC Heroes feed.. When you tolerate about 10 seconds of it, either you will decide to wait until this weekend or hit up Unbox.. :)

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/video/episodes.shtml

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If you're willing to wait, Heroes will re-air Saturday at 8. :)

So I wake up this morning and 16.1 is a black screen. What the hell is going on this week?!? :(

Hello all, :(
As many of you have noted our 3 DTV signals are gone. We are currently finallizing our installation and our construction permits. Unfortunately this was a step we had to take. Please accept our apology for the interruption and rest assured we will be back as soon as humanly possible. Thank you to all that have given us feedback so far.

Do you have a guesstimate as to if the outage will be hours, days or weeks?

Thanks!

I wondered what happened.. I was so looking forward to watching Heroes in HD only to have my hopes dashed when I didn't find it on my Media Center PC when I got home. If there weren't others here sleeping, I would have been screaming at the top of my lungs.. Seriously... Well anyway if you don't want to wait for it to re-air this weekend, you can purchase it from Amazon's Unbox service although I don't think that is high def at all.. If it's in the Xbox 360 line up of shows, I may purchase the HD version if it's available... I just hope NBC (especially Heroes) is on Xbox live.. I'll check after I post this..

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I just checked the Xbox.. All of the major tv broadcast networks but NBC is on Xbox Live.. Unbelievable!

---------------------------------------------------------------------


So anywho looks like I'll have to buy it from Amazon's Unbox service as soon as it's available.. Also alternatively you can watch it for free when it becomes available on NBC's site although I think the way NBC streams video stinks.. They need to see see how ABC's streaming video because right now they have the best quality video of any of the tv networks on the net.

Well here's the official NBC Heroes feed.. When you tolerate about 10 seconds of it, either you will decide to wait until this weekend or hit up Unbox.. :)

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/video/episodes.shtml

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If you're willing to wait, Heroes will re-air Saturday at 8. :)

That is really weird that it didn't work for you. I watched Heroes without any problems in HD.

Do you have a guesstimate as to if the outage will be hours, days or weeks?

Thanks!

Days or weeks. Not sure yet. I was kinda supprised by this yesterday.

Is it legal or technical?

That is really weird that it didn't work for you. I watched Heroes without any problems in HD.

Yeah I know, but my problem seems to be consistent with Damaged76's.. I had at least one other show set to record at the same time as Heroes and it didn't record either.. The only scenario I can think of that could have happened is that the power might have went out when I was at work. However my PC is on a APC power backup, but that only lasts around 13 minutes anyway.. My pc was still on when I got home, but it's set to power up again when power is restored..

I'm just leaving a quick message for Damaged76 or anyone else that may have missed Heroes last night. I didn't want to wait until the weekend to watch Heroes so I purchased last night's episode on Amazon's Unbox service. While it's not HD it's fair to say it's pretty close to DVD quality. The show come in just shy of a full gigabyte but the DVD quality is definitely there.

All I got to say is I'm glad Amazon was there as a safety net because to wait until Saturday for a show I've been waiting months for to watch would have been like waiting for an eternity. Sure I could have watched it for free on NBC's site, but as I said, their video is horrible.. Their free streaming player is real jerky..

Hello all, :(
As many of you have noted our 3 DTV signals are gone. We are currently finallizing our installation and our construction permits. Unfortunately this was a step we had to take. Please accept our apology for the interruption and rest assured we will be back as soon as humanly possible. Thank you to all that have given us feedback so far.

It really would have been nice to get some notice on this. I had setup recordings for my wife with the HD feed rather than the regular channel for a show and caught all kinds of heck when dancing with the stars didn't show up on Tivo. Sure will be glad when this long, long, long awaited project is completed.

It really would have been nice to get some notice on this. I had setup recordings for my wife with the HD feed rather than the regular channel for a show and caught all kinds of heck when dancing with the stars didn't show up on Tivo. Sure will be glad when this long, long, long awaited project is completed.

We didn't exactly get much notice either.

It really would have been nice to get some notice on this. I had setup recordings for my wife with the HD feed rather than the regular channel for a show and caught all kinds of heck when dancing with the stars didn't show up on Tivo. Sure will be glad when this long, long, long awaited project is completed.

I don't believe there has been any official announcement of these channels going live, so we have been living on the bleeding edge courtesy of hvs10trk; something I greatly appreciate. Berating him about unexpected outages at this early stage in the game is just silly, and unfair.

We didn't exactly get much notice either.

Hey believe me, I appreciate what you guys have done for us so far. :) Remember with out people like Hvs10trk, we wouldn't have these nice digital broadcasts in the first place. I think we should be glad were getting them in the first place. Personally you have a huge thank you from me!

Oh by the way, I don't really watch Nascar, but I stumbled on Nascar on 57 the other day.. Man I got to say that is the most beautiful I've ever seen Nascar! I wanted to watch it even though I don't care much for it because the picture looked so good! You guys might actually convert me into a Nascar fan unlike that other pixelated channel that makes Nascar unbearable to watch.

Is it legal or technical?I'm thinking legal ...
§ 73.1620 Program tests.
(a)
(1) The permittee of a nondirectional AM or FM station, or a nondirectional or directional TV or Class A TV station, may begin program tests upon notification to the FCC in Washington, DC provided that within 10 days thereafter, an application for a license is filed with the FCC in Washington, DC.
I don't see low power digital in that paragraph or any paragraph that would treat a LD station differently.

The three stations went on the air September 14th ... I suspect we will be seeing license applications soon to cover the three construction permits. :)

Note: Sometimes the license applications do not show up online until several days after they are filed. Applications are shown online when they are accepted. The important part is that they are filed on time. Fees must be made within a timeframe or the filing is cancelled, but filed is usually good enough.

I'm thinking that once they get all their stuff done that we'll be getting the channels in the guide at zap2it. Waiting anxiously, as usual.

On a side note, DirecTV got their rears in gear and finally put on air the 20 HD channels in the first wave of HD rollouts. I'm happy about that!

Directv
But I Sure Have Not Seen Much Hd On Most Of The New Hd Channels

Directv
But I Sure Have Not Seen Much Hd On Most Of The New Hd Channels

I heard about this on the Buzz Out Loud podcast.. They even mentioned they aren't even carrying Scifi yet.. What were they thinking? Doh! Just think no Battlestar Galactica in HD.. Wouldn't the just @&%* you off!

Directv
But I Sure Have Not Seen Much Hd On Most Of The New Hd Channels

Yes, I agree that even though the channels may be HD, there's alot of shows that just aren't HD, but that goes for even the big networks such as Survivor not being in HD, which is just crazy.

This was posted on www.dbstalk.com. Excellent referral site...

Why no "HD" icon?

This question has to be right in the top 10 of questions asked today...

"Why is there no HD icon, in the guide for X,Y,Z show on the HD networks"

Two Reasons:

1) The show is NOT in HD... not every show on an HD capable network, is actually "IN" HD....

2) The HD icon that we see in our guides, is driven off the guide data. It is a flag that is part of the guide data stream... that has to be initially set by the content provider (aka the owner of the channel)...

Why I say "initially" set, is there could be a case where that flag setting gets "lost" along the way between the content provider, the clearing house (TMS) and then DirecTV... probably doesn't happen often, but really no way for "us" to tell.... and I would have to say probably 99.9% of the time... it is going to be the content provider's fault for not setting the flag.


Only recommendation's for both cases... email the content provider... write the content provider... even call the content provider...

Tell them to offer all their shows in actuall HD, and tell them to make sure to set their HD flag properly

Yes, I agree that even though the channels may be HD, there's alot of shows that just aren't HD, but that goes for even the big networks such as Survivor not being in HD, which is just crazy.

Hmm just imagine those bug bites in high definition.. Oh and the occasional gash too. I mean I want to see those deep cuts baby!

Yes, I agree that even though the channels may be HD, there's alot of shows that just aren't HD, but that goes for even the big networks such as Survivor not being in HD, which is just crazy.

Yeah, I wonder whats the deal with Survivor not being HD. It's not like there aren't any smaller HD cameras out there for them. There's no excuse. :D

If I don't watch Survivor in SD, will I like it in HD? :)

Yeah, I wonder whats the deal with Survivor not being HD. It's not like there aren't any smaller HD cameras out there for them. There's no excuse. :D

Very expensive equipment to tie up for a long time. And its done by a private production company so money is not as available.

I still don't have anything on 57-1 or 25-1 but am receiving 69-1, my problem???

I still don't have anything on 57-1 or 25-1 but am receiving 69-1, my problem???Nope. It appears they are making some adjustments. All three had construction permit modifications filed on the 25th. The one for WMYS was approved Thursday. The other two are still pending.

They were refiled to adjust the reported transmitter power output.
WMYS TPO was changed to 840 W (was 700 W) - GRANTED 9/27/07
WCWW TPO was changed to 2.6 KW (was 2.24 KW)
WBND TBO was changed to 2.95 KW (2.33 KW)

I suspect the switch will flip on as soon as the FCC grants each of the other CPs.

Nope. It appears they are making some adjustments. All three had construction permit modifications filed on the 25th. The one for WMYS was approved Thursday. The other two are still pending.

They were refiled to adjust the reported transmitter power output.
WMYS TPO was changed to 840 W (was 700 W) - GRANTED 9/27/07
WCWW TPO was changed to 2.6 KW (was 2.24 KW)
WBND TBO was changed to 2.95 KW (2.33 KW)

I suspect the switch will flip on as soon as the FCC grants each of the other CPs.

So were they broadcasting at that power or are they just now requesting that power?

I'm not sure about the 20% increase in WMYS's power, but my ViP211 is now receiving 69.01 at 100 where it was 72-74 before.

Both stations just got approval, they should be up soon.

Both stations just got approval, they should be up soon.

I just checked and I don't have 25.1 nor 57.1 back yet.

Any updates on the guide data? Even when they come back up, I can't do much without data.

Both stations just got approval, they should be up soon.

Out of curiousity, where are you guys finding this info?

I found this out on the fcc site, if you want a copy send me a pm with your email address

Channel 69.1 works. No luck on the other two. Anybody have an info when they will be back up?

Out of curiousity, where are you guys finding this info?
A list of LD stations in South Bend:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=IN&call=&arn=&city=South+Bend&chan=&cha2=69&serv=LD&type=0&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9

Under each station (select individually) there is a link to "Application List".

WMYS (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=168663)
WCWW (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=168643)
WBND (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=168647)

I don't see the approvals for WCWW or WBND yet ... perhaps rmcdonough has a better place to search?

So were they broadcasting at that power or are they just now requesting that power?I'm assuming that someone calculated the original power then found an additional loss in the system they overlooked.

Fortunately on the stations I deal with (radio, not TV) the TPO isn't part of the CP application. We file the TPO when we file the license to cover instead of needing to CP MOD a perfectly good station.

Fortunately on the stations I deal with (radio, not TV) the TPO isn't part of the CP application. We file the TPO when we file the license to cover instead of needing to CP MOD a perfectly good station.

In the case of 27-1, it's "getting official permission from WCIU-DT". Here's the kicker: They OWN WCIU-DT! But they have to do it to make it legal, and being honest to the "T", they had to take it off the air. As for WBND, the output power wasn't exactly correct, so again, they did the right thing by taking it off the air. It's now up to the FCC to approve it It shouldn't be long, but God only knows how long it will take.

The original application for 27-1 (WCWW) has the consent letter attached. That application with attachment (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=529671) was filed in October of last year - so it certainly is not the reason why any change was needed now. As stated on the new applications:
THE PURPOSE OF THE INSTANT APPLICATION IS SIMPLY TO REVISE THE TRANSMITTER POWER OUTPUT AT ITEM 10. OF SECTION III OF THE FORM.

The original application for 27-1 (WCWW) has the consent letter attached. That application with attachment (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=529671) was filed in October of last year - so it certainly is not the reason why any change was needed now. As stated on the new applications:

I missed that, thanks. Well...ya got me. You and I both know how anal-retentive the FCC is about TV stations. A local LP got a license to cover but had to wait a month for it...and in the process, was off the air. That's just silly. If you certify you are broadcasting in accordance with your CP at your facilities, what is the problem? :confused:

I think I am as anxious about 57-1 and 25-1 coming back as the next guy. However I'm hoping that Zap2It kicks in the new guide listings just before they do return. Heck I'd be happy if the guide listings started to show up now. Zap2It doesn't seem to be anymore quick on their feet than the government is.

If you certify you are broadcasting in accordance with your CP at your facilities, what is the problem? :confused:I noted earlier that I'm on the radio side of things ... and the FCC confuses the best of engineers and lawyers. In FM the licensing is all about ERP - the license requires a TPO but that's it. That's the way I like it!

What seems to have caught these stations is that the TPO was on the CP and they needed more TPO to get the ERP than they originally expected. They were not broadcasting in accordance with their CP since the TPO apparently didn't provide the stated ERP. If it were FM the TPO would not be on the CP and they could have just filed the right TPO with the license. TV isn't FM. :(

Going off topic:
FM vs translators are two different parts of the rules ... Part 73 stations can go on the air when ready and file the license to cover within 10 days (this would include LPTV). But translators (the little rebroadcasting stations) must file license to cover applications BEFORE starting programming. Specific questions on that application relate to whether the station was built to the CP and is ready to air. Which is fun to certify when you are specifically prohibited (it is written on every CP) from starting program tests. What are you supposed to test with? White noise? Tones? Silence? It becomes a mad dash or a two day process to get any station on the air. You build it then file the license to cover certifying that then you can turn it on. Which means take an internet connected computer to the site, leave the site to get to an internet connected computer, call someone else with an internet connected computer or make it a two day trip. All this to follow the rulez.

whats the deal with 22-1?

So 57 and 25 have to file the right paper work then they can broadcast again ? how long would something like that take i mean you would think the station is losing some money for not having it up right now...

whats the deal with 22-1?

If you're referring to the football game, I notice it's not flagged as being HD. It looks to me that like they are just rebroadcasting the analog signal which always looks like crap on an HD set.

If you're referring to the football game, I notice it's not flagged as being HD. It looks to me that like they are just rebroadcasting the analog signal which always looks like crap on an HD set.

the game wasnt even on, when i posted that. just those color bars, and the long beep. now its on at least. oh well.

Is anyone else having trouble with 28-1? Even though Media Center keeps showing a nearly full signal, it's cutting out like mad. Is it me, or is 28 having problems?

So 57 and 25 have to file the right paper work then they can broadcast again ? how long would something like that take i mean you would think the station is losing some money for not having it up right now...I wouldn't say they are losing money. No one really knows that the LD stations exist yet ... cable subs have been and still get the HD feeds and the advertiser's messages are still being seen on the NTSC feed as well as on cable.

Having 25 CW and 57 ABC in HD OTA might encourage people to watch the better quality signal, but I doubt if people who wanted to see the programs didn't just tune to the regular channels. No real loss.

Any one know if WBND will be broadcasting OTA in HD by Saturday?...I had read earlier they weren't going to be up in time for the MI vs ND game but I thought they were going to be up by the end of Sept..any ideas???

Any one know if WBND will be broadcasting OTA in HD by Saturday?...I had read earlier they weren't going to be up in time for the MI vs ND game but I thought they were going to be up by the end of Sept..any ideas???

We were up for 2 weeks but had to come back down for a bit.

We were up for 2 weeks but had to come back down for a bit.

How long is a bit? :D

So... Is there a logical explanation why the modified CP for WMYS was approved almost instantly, but the other two are dragging on close to a week now?

So... Is there a logical explanation why the modified CP for WMYS was approved almost instantly, but the other two are dragging on close to a week now?
No, it's pretty much buckle your seat belts and hang on for the ride. :D

Any bets on which event will come first: WBND-LD/WCWW-LD back on the air, or EPG data for same from the DBS Providers? ;)
(or, to be really mean: the Fighting Irish win their first game?

"Patience, Hell, I want to kill something!" --Anonymous
:D

Notre Dame won their first game in 1888, beating Harvard Prep. But I know what you mean.
At least 57.1 was there for us to see the Irish loose in HD every week this year. :)

A programming note from WLS-TV just in case 57.1 is not up and running for saturday nights game and you plan on watching 7.1 in Chicago.

"ABC7 Chicago is pleased to announce that it will offer the Notre Dame vs. UCLA college football game Saturday October 6, 2007 at 7:00 PM on digital channel 7.2. ABC7 Chicago will be airing the Ohio State vs. Purdue college football game on our analog channel 7 and our HD digital channel 7.1."

A programming note from WLS-TV just in case 57.1 is not up and running for saturday nights game and you plan on watching 7.1 in Chicago.

"ABC7 Chicago is pleased to announce that it will offer the Notre Dame vs. UCLA college football game Saturday October 6, 2007 at 7:00 PM on digital channel 7.2. ABC7 Chicago will be airing the Ohio State vs. Purdue college football game on our analog channel 7 and our HD digital channel 7.1."

I guess from what they said on the radio AM 960 CW 25 will have purdue vs ohio state game 8pm and ABC 57 will have the ND vs UCLA game at 8pm. I dont think i can get chicago HD may have to watch it in SD if it is not up...

I have 57.01 on my ViP211! Just in time for my Boilers to get educated by the Buckeyes... :( But miracles could happen, if Purdue can play all four quarters instead of the three they have been.

JL, you may have something about the Irish and HD coverage. I hear that Weis is telling the administration that he guarantees they won't lose the week the Irish play B.Y.E. :)

Still no WCWW-LD at this time. According to the links above, the applications are still showing as "ACCEPTED FOR FILING". So maybe WBND-LD will vanish again?

The FCC approved the WBND-LD modification today. WBND-LD was back on the air just before 8p EST.

Note that the Notre Dame game will be in HD on WBND Saturday and the Ohio State game will also be in HD on WCWW. If the FCC has not approved the WCWW modification by end of business Friday, WCWW-HD will only be available via Comcast HD.

Just wanted to say a quick thanks to those who responded to my question and the quick updates

Great to have WBND-LD back!!! I can stop shaking now!

Here's a strange observation that hopefully someone might be able to explain...

On the same day when 57.1 first came on the air two weeks ago, I noticed a lot of unusual problems with WNDU-DT (16.1). The picture would freeze and break up every ten to fifteen seconds, but the signal strength seemed fine. After a couple of days it cleared up, so I just figured it was coincidence.

Now today, as soon as 57.1 came back on the air, I started having all the same problems with 16.1 again. And I can't understand it, since the UHF frequencies aren't even close.

I'm hoping it'll just clear up again like before, but does anyone have ideas on what may be going on? Thanks!

57-1 is in the green as is 69-1. Now I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that 25-1 will also return in the green where before both 57-1 and 25-1 were both in the yellow for me. Maybe I won't need to re-direct my antenna after all.. That is unless 28-1 acts up on me again.. It was chopping real bad for me the other day. It was God awful! Otherwise all the locals are coming in great. The only local that can stand to look better is 16-1. WNDU looks like it's bandwidth starved or something.. It all looks good until theres any kind of action, then it starts getting unbearable to watch.

I have 57.1 tuning into 49.3 on my t.v. Weird!

25.1 back on the air!!! :D

I have 57.1 tuning into 49.3 on my t.v. Weird!

Try a re-scan. If that doesn't work, let me know.

I have 57.1 tuning into 49.3 on my t.v. Weird!

Anybody else with this problem. (Would only show up after a re-scan)

Try a re-scan. If that doesn't work, let me know.

O.k. I'm at work right now, but when I get home, I'll rescan and report back.

25.1 back on the air!!! :D

THANK YOU!!

ABC does infact offer DD 5.1 with their HD service. We should be adding it down the line. For the moment its 2.0. CW is not anytime soon.

I always thought it came encoded. Do you have to encode it?

Guide data...must have guide data. Anyone know anything yet? :(

THANK YOU!!



I always thought it came encoded. Do you have to encode it?

Yes, unfortunately. We have to decode it and re-encode it again. :(

Guide data...must have guide data. Anyone know anything yet? :(

Via Sat RX or stand-alone OTA RX?

Cannot get 25-1 on either of my direct receivers, my problem??

I am able to get 13 digital channels now with my OTA indoor HD antenna which is connected to the back of my dish vip622 including 25-1 and 57-1 now.
I still don't have any guide data though.

Via Sat RX or stand-alone OTA RX?

Standalone TiVo HD - No Data
HD Directv TiVo - No Data
Directv HR20 - No Data (Can't even tune to the 3 channels on this box until there's data)
Still nothing on Zap2it either.

E* receives data from Tribune ... still no data mapped for any of the three new channels.
(Note also that E*'s via satellite feed of WCWW 25 still has the WMWB channel name.)

If it isn't in Zap2it I wouldn't expect it on E*'s data ... but it needs fixed!

25.1 back on the air!!! :D

How did you know that and post it at 12:26pm? 12:26pm EDT was the exact time RF went on. Were you sitting on the keyboard waitint for the RF?

I'm picking up 25-1 now but it's very choppy. It looks more like a picture slide show than video. Sometimes I'll see a few seconds of video, but then it just looks like a frame by frame picture slide show.

How did you know that and post it at 12:26pm? 12:26pm EDT was the exact time RF went on. Were you sitting on the keyboard waitint for the RF?

I'm just that darn good. :D

How did you know that and post it at 12:26pm? 12:26pm EDT was the exact time RF went on. Were you sitting on the keyboard waitint for the RF?I'm just that darn good. :DHmm ... perhaps the RF was so strong where hvs10trk was that it triggered the post? :D

Congrats on getting everything back (and up in the first place). Now all we have to do is decide if we should watch the 0-5 team on ABC or the 5-0 team on the CW. At least both will be in free OTA HD! :)

Guide data...must have guide data.Agreed... Must Agree! ;)

We have our Dish receivers locked to protect young eyes in our household. Dish made a decision to brand all the "Digital Service" as "NR/AO", so we need to enter our unlock code just to see what's on these channels. So, even though we have EPG info for the locals as delivered by Dish, we haven't started watching, except for special events.

Is this a matter of Weigel not providing data to Tribune Media Services, TMS not providing the information to DirecTV/Dish, or the DBS providers not putting 2+2 together and associating this data with the new ATSC channels in our area? I'm thinking the latter. Do we need to start an e-mail campaign?

Ok here's the deal for me. I live in Jimtown and getting a 60% signal on the digital TV upstairs. The picture comes in but it's cutting out big time. I was at least getting somewhat of a picture on 25.1 on my Media Center pc, but now I'm not even picking it up at all. I re-entered the frequency manually which I think is 27.. The signal strength looks the same as I got last night, but nothings coming through.. Ugh! By the way last night I was at least able to get the audio and the picture coming through was more like a picture slideshow as I mentioned before.

I'm hoping 25.1 is just still trying to work out the kinks..

Agreed... Must Agree! ;)

Do we need to start an e-mail campaign?

Not at all. I'll see what I can find out.

Agreed... Must Agree! ;)

We have our Dish receivers locked to protect young eyes in our household. Dish made a decision to brand all the "Digital Service" as "NR/AO", so we need to enter our unlock code just to see what's on these channels. So, even though we have EPG info for the locals as delivered by Dish, we haven't started watching, except for special events.

Is this a matter of Weigel not providing data to Tribune Media Services, TMS not providing the information to DirecTV/Dish, or the DBS providers not putting 2+2 together and associating this data with the new ATSC channels in our area? I'm thinking the latter. Do we need to start an e-mail campaign?

Tribune has guide data. Dish and DirecTV are slow to add. On the phone with them today to push them. OTA guide is different, the equipment we need to do it is backordered. The BO equipment does not affect Dish or DirecTV though (and MS). They all use TMS.

Not at all. I'll see what I can find out.

Tribune has guide data. Dish and DirecTV are slow to add. On the phone with them today to push them. OTA guide is different, the equipment we need to do it is backordered. The BO equipment does not affect Dish or DirecTV though (and MS). They all use TMS.

I spoke to a Directv technical services rep this morning about the unavailability of 25.1, 57.1 and 69.1 on my new HR20 HD DVR. She had access to information indicating that 25.1 WCWW and 57.1 WBND are in our local market and part of the group of local HD channels to be delivered via satellite by the end of 2007. She had no information on 69.1 WMYS. The only solution she had for the unavailability of the new channels off the air was to post a message in their system that hopefully will prompt action by someone at Directv. I was about to ask if someone at Weigel could put pressure on Tribune Media Services and Directv to get the guide data added, but I see that you guys are on it. Thanks! :D

Is 25.1 broadcasting with less power than it was before? When 25.1 was up the first time it came in just fine, but now it's just awful. I just need some indication whether or not if there are any temporary issues or if I'm just going to have to re-aim my antenna.. I'm not looking forward to climbing on the roof, but if I have to I must.. Or should I just hold out in hopes that the signal will improve? I need someone to throw me a bone here before I risk my neck un-necessarily. I'm starting to worry that i'm just an isolated case here.. I don't see anyone else here on the forums mentioning the bad signal I'm receiving.

I don't receive 25-1, but 57-1 and 69-1 come in at 90+ on my receivers.

I'm not sure if it's a coincidence, but it seems that 25.1 is improving significantly. It still cuts out a touch but that's nothing to the slide show I was getting if I was even able to get even that at all. Perhaps the 25.1 engineer just needed to give that channel's transmitter a spanking? I'm just crossing my fingers the quality holds out until after I record Smallville tonight. I have Smallville set to record on my analog tuner just in case the digital feed craps out again.

For those of us on Media Center PC's, if you have Comcast digital cable, you can barrow guide data from other channels. Just be sure to add WMWB's listings to 25.1. The only problem is Comcast doesn't carry 69 in either analog or digital therefore the guide data isn't available for that channel either. However don't be surprised if your surrogate guide data keeps disappearing.. For some reason every now and then Vista drops the guide data I add to the new channels manually.. If anyone knows a fix for this, please let me know!

Is 25.1 broadcasting with less power than it was before? When 25.1 was up the first time it came in just fine, but now it's just awful. I just need some indication whether or not if there are any temporary issues or if I'm just going to have to re-aim my antenna.. I'm not looking forward to climbing on the roof, but if I have to I must.. Or should I just hold out in hopes that the signal will improve? I need someone to throw me a bone here before I risk my neck un-necessarily. I'm starting to worry that i'm just an isolated case here.. I don't see anyone else here on the forums mentioning the bad signal I'm receiving.

All three stations are back at the same power they were the first time they went on. It sounds like and antenna or weather problem. I have an inside antenna that get 57-1 fine but on the outside antenna I have drop outs durring the day. Nights are better. and I am less then 3 air miles from the tower.

Transmitters are operating fine on all three stations. We have done nothing to them since the day they originally signed on 9/14. 69.1 has a very directional antenna (must protect DTV ch 24 in Fort Wayne) although it still seems to get out well. As for WCWW-LD 25.1, I'm wondering if we have an antenna issue or an interference issue with DTV ch 27 in Chicago.

If you are having problems receiving channel 25.1 (RF channel 27), please post your city, state and the nearest street intersection. I want to plot this in our RF software for analysis. I'm from Chicago so please don't reference names that only locals know... :)

Someone else posted earlier that with the HR20 you can redo your antenna setup and use 46514 in your initial setup as your primary location and then use 23235 as your secondary zip code location. This will enable the HR20 to see Channel 57-1 and it will pick up the channel even though the guide will not be correct. You can watch ABC in high-Def. Go Irish

If you are having problems receiving channel 25.1 (RF channel 27), please post your city, state and the nearest street intersection. I want to plot this in our RF software for analysis. I'm from Chicago so please don't reference names that only locals know... :)

LaPaz, IN, US 6 and Pine Road (or US6 and US31).
57.1 and 69.1 come in great, but 25.1 is having frequent dropouts.

If you are having problems receiving channel 25.1 (RF channel 27), please post your city, state and the nearest street intersection. I want to plot this in our RF software for analysis. I'm from Chicago so please don't reference names that only locals know... :)

mishawaka, indiana. dragoon trail and fir road.

my tuner never even picked up 25.1. every other digital channel available comes in 80s-90s on the antenna meter.

I live near Day road and Fir. I have received both 57-1 and 69-1 from the first @90+, but have never received 25-1.

South Bend, Corner of Edison Rd. and Country Club Rd. Two miles directly west of airport.
69-1 great, 57-1 great, 25-1 won't lock in on scan and 26-1 keeps popping up in it's place!

Thank you for those who have posted so far. Also, if you could briefly include the type of antenna you are using (indoor, outdoor) and the approx. height that would be helpful. Model numbers, coax, etc., not needed.

Someone else posted earlier that with the HR20 you can redo your antenna setup and use 46514 in your initial setup as your primary location and then use 23235 as your secondary zip code location. This will enable the HR20 to see Channel 57-1 and it will pick up the channel even though the guide will not be correct. You can watch ABC in high-Def. Go Irish

Or I just watch 57.1 through the t.v. tuner, which is what I have been doing. I'm still getting 57.1 at 57.1 as well as on 49.3. I've got a rooftop antenna. Closest intersection is Ironwood and Ireland. 25.1 and 69.1 come in fine here.

I have two indoor antennas, one silver sensor @ 6ft and a radio shack @ 12 ft.
Fir and Day in Mishawaka.

I live 8 miles north of Niles, Mi on M51 N by Pokagon Hwy (half way between Niles and Dowagiac). I have a roof top antenna about 30 feet above ground. I receive 57.1 and 69.1 very well. Channel 25.1 reception is either not at all or very pixilated.

Antennas Direct 42XG, 20' off the ground, pointing over open corn fields (nearest obstruction is a small patch of trees about 1.5 miles away).

Last night, for the first 1/2 hour of Smallville, reception was pretty good, then it became unwatchable and I switched to Sat.

Logan St. & Mishawaka Ave. Indoor antenna on 1st floor. E* VIP 211
025-01 no signal
057-01 80-85 %
069-01 95-100 %

UPDATE :
025-01 at 75-80% now

Choppy audio during the ND UCLA game tonight.

We were watching a little bit of the second quarter of the ND/UCLA game in SD on Directv. I have a hearing problem so the CC was on.
The CC was actually for the Ohio State/Purdue game on 25. My niece said the audio was right.
We switched over to 25 for a couple of minutes and there wasn't any CC at all.

We were watching a little bit of the second quarter of the ND/UCLA game in SD on Directv. I have a hearing problem so the CC was on.
The CC was actually for the Ohio State/Purdue game on 25. My niece said the audio was right.
We switched over to 25 for a couple of minutes and there wasn't any CC at all.

:eek: That's a long story and has to do with ABC and getting CC on their affiliates HD stations. That should be remedied in next couple of months when ABC makes some changes on their end.

Choppy audio during the ND UCLA game tonight.

same here it happened a few times...

Anyone else seeing 22.1 macroblocking all day?

Anyone else seeing 22.1 macroblocking all day?

I recorded Shark on 22.1 today and just decided to watch it. Well I gave up trying to watch it because the distortion was so bad.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I risked my neck to re-aim my antenna and now get in 25.1 perfectly, but now 57.1's signal is now the weakest signal I get. However even that still looks great! Although I'm not a Nascar fan I tuned in on 57.1 to check it out and it looked sweet! I also watched Life is Wild on 25.1 which I feel is one of the most beautiful HD show's out there comparable to watching Nature on PBS HD! However the plot of the show didn't really grab me.. I mean the the lion could have eaten the entire family and I'd still would care more about how beautiful the picture looked. Maybe the plot will get better as it go's, but at least half of the equation is right. The show is certainly not hard on the eyes though that's for sure.

What's the scoop with OTA listings for the new DT's on Zap2It? I'm pretty anxious to get the proper listings as Vista Media Center has been nothing short of flaky with the guide listings. Just today I caught it trying to record shows I set to record on 25.1 on the original cable positions which won't work at all.. I would have just gotten blank recordings had I not caught it in time. Bad Vista! Every now and then it tries to append random guide data as subchannels to channel 69 so I get 1691, 1692,1693 ect ect.. I'm almost ready to go back to XP Media Center 2005 until MS gets these crazy guide issues worked out. However I'm holding out to see if the actual channel guide data ever shows up.. If I ever get the correct guide listings for those channels the crazy issues I'm dealing with now should go away.. At least I sure hope so. If anyone here has considered getting Vista Media Center, I suggest waiting it out for a while.

Southwest of South Bend, St. Rd. 23 and Mayflower Rd. area

16-1 100%
22-1 92%
25-1 88%
28-1 100%
57-1 66%

Winegard 8 bay UHF antenna 20' up outdoors

I'm glad it wasn't just me, NFL on 22-1 was macro blocking so bad it was unwatchable. I'm new to HDTV as of last week and as far as signal quality on 22-1 and 16-1 OTA I have to say I'm disappointed. The macro blocking on these stations is horrible. I have close to full antenna strength on all OTA locals and 28-1 and 57-1 look 100% better than 22-1 and 16-1. Is this something others have noticed? Especially for football games when the camera is close up on 22-1 and 16-1 macro blocking is pretty severe. I know that its not my tv because football on 28-1 looked perfect with almost no macro blocking. Would having a digital cable or satellite feed help with the macro blocking on 22-1 and 16-1?

Anyone else seeing 22.1 macroblocking all day?WSBT-DT did have lots of macro blocking and bad I-frames yesterday. As much as I'd like to blame WSBT and WNDU for running multiple sub-channels and bit-starving their main programming, this might have been a hardware issue. You'd think that someone at WSBT would be watching their on-air signal and calling the engineers to fix it.

On the other hand, WBND-LD, WCWW-LD, and WSJV-DT have had the best picture quality of the local channels. They do not have sub-channels. Coincidence? I think not.

On the other hand, WBND-LD, WCWW-LD, and WSJV-DT have had the best picture quality of the local channels. They do not have sub-channels. Coincidence? I think not.

It seems the only DT running a sub channel with out issues in the area is WNIT. Otherwise every channel with a sub channel in the area seems like it's had some issue or another. Let's not forget that Fox 28 is the only other channel in the area with out a sub channel and it always looks great! That's got to tell you something. I think all the local DT's that have sub channels should knock on the WNIT engineer's door to find out what they did right to get everything looking great with out a lot of distortion. WNDU should be the first in line to be knocking on their door I think.

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Oops! I reread what Foxbat said ad now realize he had already mentioned that Fox 28 is one of the only channels in the area with out a sub channel. That's what happens when you post just after getting up with out first having your morning coffee. LOL

If you are having problems receiving channel 25.1 (RF channel 27), please post your city, state and the nearest street intersection. I want to plot this in our RF software for analysis. I'm from Chicago so please don't reference names that only locals know... :)

Northwest of South Bend, next to Orchards Mall, Benton Harbor

16-1 92%
22-1 88%
25-1 67%
28-1 78%
34-1 72%
57-1 82%
69-1 89%

CM 8-bay UHF antenna 15' up outdoors
All stations come in fine except 25 & 69, on new TV shows signal strength good but no picture 80% of the time. Strangely, on my 2yr old a180 pci tuner all stations are perfect.:confused:

Northwest of South Bend, next to Orchards Mall, Benton Harbor

16-1 92%
22-1 88%
25-1 67%
28-1 78%
34-1 72%
57-1 82%
69-1 89%

CM 8-bay UHF antenna 15' up outdoors
All stations come in fine except 25 & 69, on new TV shows signal strength good but no picture 80% of the time. Strangely, on my 2yr old a180 pci tuner all stations are perfect.:confused:

You are using a Avermedia a180? What software did you use to get the signal strength in percent? I have this card as well, but I haven't found any software that tells me what the signal strength is in percentage.

I don't know what the term macro blocking means, but the football games have been horrible on 22-1, both college and pro. During the Florida-LSU game Saturday night, there would be a crisp HD picture for a few seconds, and then it would seem to go fuzzy for a few seconds. This is especially noticable on the scrolling scores on the bottom of the page... they are crisp and clear, and then all of a sudden they get fuzzy. Is this macro blocking or something else? It has been that way for a while, unfortunately. I noticed it during the first week of the NFL season. This never happens on any other station for me, just 22-1.

Behind Meijer on the Breman Highway

16-1 95-100%
22-1 95-100%
25-1 95-100%
28-1 95-100%
34-1 90-95%
57-1 95-100%
69-1 90-95%

It's only about 3 miles to the towers but I had to get a directional antenna because of multi-path. Using a Radio Shack U-75R

I've been doing some investigating and on WSBT website I came across this article http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/9852301.html
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the macroblocking and fuzzyness but hopefully the picture quality will improve within the next couple of weeks.

On the other hand, WBND-LD, WCWW-LD, and WSJV-DT have had the best picture quality of the local channels. They do not have sub-channels. Coincidence? I think not.

Well it's not so much coincidence as it is the equipment. Encoders make or break your DTV station. You can sucessfully have subchannels it you delegate the bandwidth properly. Take our WCIU-DT here in Chicago. 26.1 HD 720p, 26.2 is SD 2.9mb, and 26.3 is SD 2mb. When we air HD games on 26.1, you would never guess we have subs.

I've been doing some investigating and on WSBT website I came across this article http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/9852301.html
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the macroblocking and fuzzyness but hopefully the picture quality will improve within the next couple of weeks.

Antenna has nothing to do with the above.

You are using a Avermedia a180? What software did you use to get the signal strength in percent? I have this card as well, but I haven't found any software that tells me what the signal strength is in percentage.

The percents I listed were off my toshiba lcd. For the Avermedia I use WatchHDTV v1.950 and it lists signals of either 75 or 100% for all channels

I can't believe there's still no guide data. My TiVo HD deletes these 3 channels every day and my HR20 won't even tune to them. :mad:

Mike Lang, do you not pay attention to any posts. I told you that you could trick the HR20 into thinking that it can receive 57-1 by inputing 23235 zip code as a secondary location in the initial setup of your ant setup. I watched the ND game and Nascar in high def on my HR20. I think you could have also.

Mike Lang, do you not pay attention to any posts. I told you that you could trick the HR20 into thinking that it can receive 57-1 by inputing 23235 zip code as a secondary location in the initial setup of your ant setup. I watched the ND game and Nascar in high def on my HR20. I think you could have also.

I already knew that, but it's still irrelevant. I have 3 HiDef DVRs in the theater and can use the HR10-250 to see them, but I can't schedule season passes for shows without guide data.

I can't believe there's still no guide data. My TiVo HD deletes these 3 channels every day and my HR20 won't even tune to them. :mad:The deletions and not tuning would have me screaming until I was hoarse.

The oddity of my guide has the program listed as "Digital Service" with 200 hours remaining, but I was still able to set a manual record timer for NASCAR on Sunday (the only confusing part was when I pressed "record to end of program" for the ND game on Saturday it wanted to record for 200 hours and skip NASCAR as a conflict).

Has any guide shown the programming yet?

I can't believe there's still no guide data. My TiVo HD deletes these 3 channels every day and my HR20 won't even tune to them. :mad:

Sorry guys,
Apparently its a bit more complicated to add LD's to the guides than we thought. :eek: I'll spare you the long drawn out details but its in motion.

I'm glad it wasn't just me, NFL on 22-1 was macro blocking so bad it was unwatchable. I'm new to HDTV as of last week and as far as signal quality on 22-1 and 16-1 OTA I have to say I'm disappointed. The macro blocking on these stations is horrible. I have close to full antenna strength on all OTA locals and 28-1 and 57-1 look 100% better than 22-1 and 16-1. Is this something others have noticed? Especially for football games when the camera is close up on 22-1 and 16-1 macro blocking is pretty severe. I know that its not my tv because football on 28-1 looked perfect with almost no macro blocking. Would having a digital cable or satellite feed help with the macro blocking on 22-1 and 16-1?

Maybe it is the broadcast format. Fox and ABC broadcast the games and Nascar races in 720p. CBS and NBC broadcast in 1080i. I get a lot of macoblocking on the 1080i channels but almost never see any on the 720p ones.

Maybe hvs10trk can clarify, but I thought that the CW's programming was 1080i. My current equipment doesn't differentiate.

Maybe hvs10trk can clarify, but I thought that the CW's programming was 1080i. My current equipment doesn't differentiate.

You are correct. :D

Transmitters are operating fine on all three stations. We have done nothing to them since the day they originally signed on 9/14. 69.1 has a very directional antenna (must protect DTV ch 24 in Fort Wayne) although it still seems to get out well. As for WCWW-LD 25.1, I'm wondering if we have an antenna issue or an interference issue with DTV ch 27 in Chicago.


I don't understand this, maybe you can explain. Why does DT channel 23 have to protect ch 24 in Fort Wayne? We have DT 30 full power in South Bend and it does not interfere with Fort Wayne DT 31. We have DTs on 47 and 48 in South Bend and they do not interfere with each other. I was under the impression that DT was designed to not interfere with adjacent channels.

Another question, why did the FCC allow a LD on ch 27 transmitter in South Bend when there is a DT on 27 just 70 miles away in Chicago?

Al

Maybe it is the broadcast format. Fox and ABC broadcast the games and Nascar races in 720p. CBS and NBC broadcast in 1080i. I get a lot of macoblocking on the 1080i channels but almost never see any on the 720p ones.
I have noticed the same thing regarding WNDU/WSBT and 1080i format. hvs10trk do you think this is an issue having to do with the local stations WNDU and WSBT not properly delegating their bandwidth and/or encoding their feed properly? It just seems to me that if NBC and CBS look better in other areas of the country that this would be a problem with the local affiliates. If so, how would you go about fixing this problem? Would they need new equipment or is it just as simple as changing how they delegate bandwidth across main and sub channels?

We have DTs on 47 and 48 in South Bend and they do not interfere with each other.There is no DT on 47. There is a DT on 48 (WHME) and an LD on 49 (WBND). It helps that the stations are close to each other ... WBND's 15 kW isn't likely to interfere with WHME's 300 kW (and WBND can accept interference). With more distant stations the Fort Wayne station could lose viewers on the edge of their protected area.

Here is the analysis for WBND on 49:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=444686
49 does interfere with 48, but only to a minor extent (below the threshold where the FCC worries about it).

Another question, why did the FCC allow a LD on ch 27 transmitter in South Bend when there is a DT on 27 just 70 miles away in Chicago?WCWW has a waiver from the other station. They are both run out of the same address so it probably was not a hard waiver to get. :)

Here is the anaysis for WCWW on 27:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=444638

I don't know what the term macro blocking means, but the football games have been horrible on 22-1, both college and pro. During the Florida-LSU game Saturday night, there would be a crisp HD picture for a few seconds, and then it would seem to go fuzzy for a few seconds. This is especially noticable on the scrolling scores on the bottom of the page... they are crisp and clear, and then all of a sudden they get fuzzy. Is this macro blocking or something else? It has been that way for a while, unfortunately. I noticed it during the first week of the NFL season. This never happens on any other station for me, just 22-1.

This is why I'm glad the NFC games are on Fox along with the Super Bowl this year. WSBT has been like this for as long as I can remember.

I think this is due to an improperly calibrated Flexicoder. Do a search if you like and you'll find tons of info. The thing I don't understand is, wouldn't you want to fix this if you're the station engineer?


Does anyone else contact WNDU or WSBT to complain about there various picture issues? It's about as productive as talking to a brick wall.

There is no DT on 47. There is a DT on 48 (WHME) and an LD on 49 (WBND). It helps that the stations are close to each other ... WBND's 15 kW isn't likely to interfere with WHME's 300 kW (and WBND can accept interference). With more distant stations the Fort Wayne station could lose viewers on the edge of their protected area.

Yeah, I meant 48 and 49. Thanks for the info. So are you saying that adjacent channels have to be specifically tuned to not interfere with each other and not be interfered with? That would explain why the older DTs can be adjacent and new additional channels have to be tailored to fit in with the existing ones.

Al

This is why I'm glad the NFC games are on Fox along with the Super Bowl this year. WSBT has been like this for as long as I can remember.

I think this is due to an improperly calibrated Flexicoder. Do a search if you like and you'll find tons of info. The thing I don't understand is, wouldn't you want to fix this if you're the station engineer?


Does anyone else contact WNDU or WSBT to complain about there various picture issues? It's about as productive as talking to a brick wall.
thedamaja, have you complained to WSBT and WNDU about this? What type of response do you get? I just got my HDTV last week and I have not complained to the stations yet, but so far in my opinion the quality of picture these stations are putting out is not up to par.

thedamaja, have you complained to WSBT and WNDU about this? What type of response do you get? I just got my HDTV last week and I have not complained to the stations yet, but so far in my opinion the quality of picture these stations are putting out is not up to par.

I feel too lazy to call. Does anyone have email address's to these stations to send our complaints to? WSBT for me hasn't seemed all that bad for the most part, but WNDU has been inexcusably bad for as long as I remember.

I emailed Eugene Hale at WSBT last night about the macroblocking while trying to sit through CSI Miami. No reply yet.

I just complained to channel 16 although I wasn't sure who to complain to.. I went to their contact page and scratched my head.. Then I chose programming. I figure if they aren't the right one's to complain to, they'll send it to the right person.. Well at least that's what I hope.

Well anywho if anyone else wants to complain to WNDU their contact page is here..

http://www.wndu.com/station/misc/4413086.html

I have noticed the same thing regarding WNDU/WSBT and 1080i format. hvs10trk do you think this is an issue having to do with the local stations WNDU and WSBT not properly delegating their bandwidth and/or encoding their feed properly? It just seems to me that if NBC and CBS look better in other areas of the country that this would be a problem with the local affiliates. If so, how would you go about fixing this problem? Would they need new equipment or is it just as simple as changing how they delegate bandwidth across main and sub channels?

Not to be generic but yeah it could be the encoders/bandwidth delegation. A DTV station is only as good as its encoder. As far as bandwidth delegation, sure that could be causing some of the above mentioned as well. 1080i is less forgiving in a subchannel world because on average it requires an extra 1mb over 720p. IMO any station thats 1080i and has subchannels should be using VBR (varible bit rate) and have a computer monitoring the stream and compensating as necessary.

Not to be generic but yeah it could be the encoders/bandwidth delegation. A DTV station is only as good as its encoder. As far as bandwidth delegation, sure that could be causing some of the above mentioned as well. 1080i is less forgiving in a subchannel world because on average it requires an extra 1mb over 720p. IMO any station thats 1080i and has subchannels should be using VBR (varible bit rate) and have a computer monitoring the stream and compensating as necessary.

Isn't WNIT 34 1080i? Their HD almost always looks great and they do carry their main channel as a sub channel. They must be doing as you said, encoding VBR and using a computer to monitor.. Ya think?

The thing I don't understand is, wouldn't you want to fix this if you're the station engineer?
Sometimes its not that simple. Plenty of times an engineer can be limited by his/her tools/test equipment. Sometimes it requires replacement of equipment. It takes time to fix/replace equipment, troubleshooting the problem, ordering the correct parts (which can take weeks at times to receive them), or (heaven forbid) we have to replace the equipment, that can take weeks as well for delivery.

Does anyone else contact WNDU or WSBT to complain about there various picture issues? It's about as productive as talking to a brick wall.
I am sure they know of these problems. Please don't use the brick wall analogy because we (engineers in general) DO listen to the public.

Isn't WNIT 34 1080i? Their HD almost always looks great and they do carry their main channel as a sub channel. They must be doing as you said, encoding VBR and using a computer to monitor.. Ya think?

I don't know too much about them to say yea or nea. You can do 1080i the manual way and make it look good, but its tough!!:eek:

I don't know too much about them to say yea or nea. You can do 1080i the manual way and make it look good, but its tough!!:eek:

Maybe they have a dedicated engineer that never sleeps. :)

Sometimes its not that simple. Plenty of times an engineer can be limited by his/her tools/test equipment. Sometimes it requires replacement of equipment. It takes time to fix/replace equipment, troubleshooting the problem, ordering the correct parts (which can take weeks at times to receive them), or (heaven forbid) we have to replace the equipment, that can take weeks as well for delivery.


I am sure they know of these problems. Please don't use the brick wall analogy because we (engineers in general) DO listen to the public.

I appreciate your response and value the information you provide us here. With out it we all would really be in the dark. I'm sure the same frustrations i experience as a viewer are much greater on the individual engineers as it is there job.

However I've sent multiple emails to WNDU about various problems or questions I have had. Not once have I received a reply of any kind. WSBT has replied with vag answers in the past.

I'll end my rant now.

Sorry guys,
Apparently its a bit more complicated to add LD's to the guides than we thought. :eek: I'll spare you the long drawn out details but its in motion.

Any clue as to how much longer these motions will take? I'm not even sure who to be angry with. I know I asked you back in July if the guide data was being taken care of. It's just frustrating. :(

Yeah, I meant 48 and 49. Thanks for the info. So are you saying that adjacent channels have to be specifically tuned to not interfere with each other and not be interfered with? That would explain why the older DTs can be adjacent and new additional channels have to be tailored to fit in with the existing ones.The FCC allows a certain amount of interference between stations. Anything over that certain amount is not allowed (unless there is a waiver). Anything less is fine. The examples above are two of such cases.

49 doesn't interfere much with 48 because 48 has a much larger coverage area (987344 people covered) and the area where 49 is predicted to interfere has a relatively small number of people (3213). 49 has chosen to accept whatever interference they get from 48.

You probably won't find many "older" DTs adjacent. At the higher power levels they would tend to interfere more, be across the threshold and not want to accept interference from each other. The newer LDs are looking for any nook and cranny to get their signals up. They are more willing to accept interference just to get a slot.

Any clue as to how much longer these motions will take? I'm not even sure who to be angry with. I know I asked you back in July if the guide data was being taken care of. It's just frustrating. :(

OK here's whats going on. Each DTV station has a TSID which is Transmission Signal ID that is embedded in the data in a DTV signal. The FCC said LD's didn't need a TSID. The hang-up is D* and E* need a TSID to add us into their data. So you can fill in the blanks from there. :eek:

Ahhh ... I wondered how E* knew which OTAs I was getting (other than zip code).

Are you transmitting a TSID now?

Ahhh ... I wondered how E* knew which OTAs I was getting (other than zip code).

Are you transmitting a TSID now?

Negative. Still waiting on them. Once we have our TSID's E* noted that it can take some time before the changes they impliment on their end filter down to everyones RX's. I would imagine the same for D*.

Don't know if anything changed, but I got 25-1 on one of my receivers today for the first time.

anyone knows if channel 57.1 is available in la porte. I have directv h20 receiver and I can only recieve 25.1 & 69.1.

anyone knows if channel 57.1 is available in la porte. I have directv h20 receiver and I can only recieve 25.1 & 69.1.

We have a slight null to the east but you (should) be able to receive it. The weather may be messing with ya. Try a re-scan later on.

WE HAVE TSID's!!!! E* customers (should) be happy within the next couple of days. (Maybe sooner????) D* customers I'll hopefully have some info soon.

We have confirmed with E* that our TSID's have been added and should filter down the pipeline within the next few hours. 25.1 will still show up as WMWB until they change the call sign on their end. Please feel free to give us feedback when the changes happen.

Don't know if anything changed, but I got 25-1 on one of my receivers today for the first time.

I rescanned my receiver and 25.1 showed up but in the listings it shows it as wciu which is channel 26.1 in Chicago.

WE HAVE TSID's!!!! E* customers (should) be happy within the next couple of days. (Maybe sooner????) D* customers I'll hopefully have some info soon.

How about Tribune Media Services? They provide data to TiVos.

I rescanned my receiver and 25.1 showed up but in the listings it shows it as wciu which is channel 26.1 in Chicago.

jhcs, where are you at (intersection, city). We're doing an analysis. Thanks-

I live in downtown Niles, have basic Comcast service, and use a Westinghouse TX-47F430S (has a QAM tuner). The set autoscans some 55 channels but the only digital channelss that come through are 14.1 - 14.6. All of them come in at 480i. I'm not able to manually add or punch in other channels into the remote (it own't go there).

I get the impression from this thread that I should be able to pick up some local channels in HD but for the life of me I can't figure out how.

I'm new to the HD scene, so I'm wondering if this scenario seem normal to you guys?

Thanks in advance!
Brad

We have confirmed with E* that our TSID's have been added and should filter down the pipeline within the next few hours. 25.1 will still show up as WMWB until they change the call sign on their end. Please feel free to give us feedback when the changes happen.OTA locals on new E* receivers use the label that is applied by the station (unless the user changes it). For example, WSBT 22 (DT 30) has WSBT-H, WSBT-S and WSBT-W (truncated by the receiver to six characters in setup) OTA. In the EPG all three show as WSBT (since E*'s EPG shows only four characters ... consistency rules!)

E* transmits 22.2 via satellite as their channel 7095 mapped down to 030-00 and labeled ESBT (extra SBT?). This is a leftover from when 22.2 was UPN Michiana. (WSBT now brands that channel as "SBT2". 22.3 remains their weather forecast feed.)

Since the receiver uses the station's label the call signs on 025-01, 057-01 and 069-01 are correct. If E* did it right 025-01 and 057-01 should have correct EPG as soon as the EPG is redownloaded (usually at the nightly reboot). We may have to rescan our channels (or manually re-add 23, 27 and 49) depending on when E* does the link between TSID and channel.

069-01 will take longer ... since E* does not carry WMYS via satellite they have to put up a special EPG feed just for that station. We keep track of such stuff at DBSTalk and I'll let you know when that EPG channel is added.

Just getting the mapping right for 025-01 and 057-01 will be nice and should be trivial now that E* can uniquely identify your feeds. Updates as events warrant! :)

UPDATE: EPG IS UP ON E* FOR 025-01 and 057-01 !!!!
Re-adding channels may be needed.

How about Tribune Media Services? They provide data to TiVos.

I feel your pain Mike. This is also where MS gets their guide data from as well for Media Center. I currently have to go through a process that involves punching kittens in the face in order to get temporary guide data and at that it's not perfect. I'm pretty frustrated with it actually.. All I can do is set my shows to record and pray that Media Center doesn't erase the guide data again before my recording takes place.. I've already had it happen several times.. Ugh! If my Media Center misses Smallville again due to the real guide data not being there, is there another way I can get it legally? Could you guys kindly replay it again late at night. I'd greatly appreciate it. :P~ Of course I know that's not going to work, but I can try to ask right?

jhcs, where are you at (intersection, city). We're doing an analysis. Thanks-

South Bend. Near the intersection of Corby and Manchester. 46615.

OT: Does anyone else with DISH have problems this morning? I've been getting the acquiring signal screen for the last two hours.

When I turned off my receiver at 6:45 am everything was up and running!

I feel your pain Mike. This is also where MS gets their guide data from as well for Media Center. I currently have to go through a process that involves punching kittens in the face in order to get temporary guide data and at that it's not perfect. I'm pretty frustrated with it actually.. All I can do is set my shows to record and pray that Media Center doesn't erase the guide data again before my recording takes place.. I've already had it happen several times.. Ugh! If my Media Center misses Smallville again due to the real guide data not being there, is there another way I can get it legally? Could you guys kindly replay it again late at night. I'd greatly appreciate it. :P~ Of course I know that's not going to work, but I can try to ask right?

Which version of Media Center do you have. Knock on wood, but mine have stuck since day one with MCE2005.

I am using Vista Media Center, but I also have a XP Media Center 2005 on another partition. I'm thinking about reverting back to XP for a while until the guide issues get worked out. I know these issues will just go away once the OTA listings for the new channels actually start coming through. I've just been holding out because as far as I know the new guide listings could come in any moment. I really don't want to set up the tuners on XP unless I really have to.. I'm trying to keep that partition a clean slate for gaming, I really don't want the guide updating there if I don't have to. I wish there was a clear cut answer to all of this. If I knew the guide data was weeks or months off I'd just setup media center 2005 for the short term, but with not knowing a time frame I feel like my hands are tied.

West side Buchanan, MI in the city limits. Terk indoor amplified antenna at 8 feet above ground level.

All local digital channels received OTA except for 25.1. Not even close to a lock.

57.1 looks outstanding!

57.1 has been great lately. I've had signal strengths in the 95-100 range lately.

I've been denied Smallville in HD again due to Vista Media Center losing the surrogate guide data again.. I'm done with Vista until the real guide data shows up. Thankfully media center still recorded the analog cable channel so I still got Smallville, but that's still not the same.. I probably should throw a post up at the Green Button forums about this.. This in my opinion is a major flaw in how Vista Media Center works.. Microsoft owes me a couple of episodes of Smallville in HD! As I said before, if you thinking about upgrading to Vista for Media Center, don't.. Well at least not yet until the local OTA guide data is fixed.

I have been rescanning the OTA channels everyday for the last couple weeks. 25.1, 57.1 and 69.1 are just not being picked up on this receiver. Is there something else that I need to be doing? I called DirecTV and they had no clue about OTA anything. Do we have to wait until DirecTV adds these to their lineup? I'm really wanting to watch Nascar this weekend.

Mike

I have been rescanning the OTA channels everyday for the last couple weeks. 25.1, 57.1 and 69.1 are just not being picked up on this receiver. Is there something else that I need to be doing? I called DirecTV and they had no clue about OTA anything. Do we have to wait until DirecTV adds these to their lineup? I'm really wanting to watch Nascar this weekend.

Mike

You're doing everything right, D* is just taking their time. I don't know the status of D* but we've contacted them.

Any news on when 57 will go 5.1?

None of them are showing up on zap2it yet either.

Any news on when 57 will go 5.1?

No.

no signal on 57-1, Problem????

I've been denied Smallville in HD again due to Vista Media Center losing the surrogate guide data again.. I'm done with Vista until the real guide data shows up. Thankfully media center still recorded the analog cable channel so I still got Smallville, but that's still not the same.. I probably should throw a post up at the Green Button forums about this.. This in my opinion is a major flaw in how Vista Media Center works.. Microsoft owes me a couple of episodes of Smallville in HD! As I said before, if you thinking about upgrading to Vista for Media Center, don't.. Well at least not yet until the local OTA guide data is fixed.

How about setting a manual time/channel recording? That way even without the guide it will record.

Try setting a secondary zip code during initial setup of your antenna and use 23235 as your secondary zip code and you will get 57-1 in your guide with the wrong programs listed but it will pick up Nascar in High-Def. You can use this until thet get the EPG listings updated.

no signal on 57-1, Problem????

Replacing a part on the transmitter.

I had to re-add WBND-LD and WCWW-LD on my Dish ViP receivers before the EPG had data (thanks for the tip, JL!). Hopefully Dish will add WMYS-LD's info, but I'm not holding my breath since Dish doesn't carry this channel via LiL.

In other local news, it looks like WSBT has their new antenna on top of the tower.

Sorry for going off topic but I want to ask other locals who have Comcast internet. Is anyone else having trouble getting to Google? Google won't work for me, but Gmail works fine. Go figure. I've been noticing intermittent problems with reaching the Google web page as of late, but Comcast denies that they are doing anything that would block it. However I can walk over to my neighbor's house who has Verizon DSL and get on Google with out a problem.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Google just magically started working again, but I'd still like to know if any other Comcast net subscribers had any such issue as of late. Thanks!

All:

As you are aware, Dish Network has added the guide data for 25.1 and 57.1. DirecTV is getting close. Internal bottlenecks there as no one seems to know who's "in charge of that". 25.1/57.1/69.1 were added to Tribune Media Services shortly after they signed on 9/14/07. DirecTV will likely be resolved in days. If anyone has ideas on how to contact MS to clear up that issue I'm all ears.

As for 25.1 having signal issues, we believe we have found the problem. It is a signal other than ours that is within the channel 27 spectrum. Channel 27 is the physical RF channel for digital 25.1. I hope to work with the source of interference over the next week or so and that should make 25.1 just as strong as 57.1.

Thank you to all for your feedback!

Sorry for going off topic but I want to ask other locals who have Comcast internet. Is anyone else having trouble getting to Google?

Have had no problems with either Gmail or the search engine (do many searches each day). Have not tried any other Google services recently.

Hi all:

Here are field strength measurements for the South Bend TV Stations made at our monitoring station which is located about 2 miles north west of the South Bend Tower Farm. These readings were taken October 7, 2007 with a clear sky 87 degrees at 1:15pm EDT. The antenna used was a Wineguard corner reflector with 25' of RG-6 feed line directly into a Pico-Pro signal level meter/spectrum monitor. WSBT-TV was operating on reduced power due to their antenna replacement work.

Channel / Level (dBmV) / Analog or Digital
16 18 A
22 20 A
23 -2 D
25 18 A
27 0 D
28 27 A
30 -4 D
34 3 A
35 -4 D
42 -6 D
46 19 A
48 7 D
49 -3 D
57 16 A
58 -4 D
69 8 A

Keep in mind that this antenna is fairly directional and is scheduled to be replaced by a broader Channel Master 4221. Also due to the type of signal modulated on the analog and digital carriers you can not directly compaire a digital signal level to an analog signal level.

25.1/57.1/69.1 were added to Tribune Media Services shortly after they signed on 9/14/07.

I assume you mean these were merely submitted to them at that time? Because as of this morning, Tribune Media Services shows "No Information Available" for all three channels.

I assume you mean these were merely submitted to them at that time? Because as of this morning, Tribune Media Services shows "No Information Available" for all three channels.

No, active. If it wasn't active, dish could not provide guide data.

No, active. If it wasn't active, dish could not provide guide data.

Still nothing on Tribune's site ( www.zap2it.com ) and nothing from Tribune to standalone TiVos. :confused:

As for 25.1 having signal issues, we believe we have found the problem. It is a signal other than ours that is within the channel 27 spectrum. Channel 27 is the physical RF channel for digital 25.1. I hope to work with the source of interference over the next week or so and that should make 25.1 just as strong as 57.1.

Thank you to all for your feedback!

That is awesome news!! It just didn't make sense how the signal could go from high 70s signal lock straight to 0 no lock, while 57.1 has a perfectly stable lock with a signal in the low 60s (no hiccups, no dropouts).

Looking forward to Smallville, Supernatural and now Reaper in HD.

Still nothing on Tribune's site ( www.zap2it.com ) and nothing from Tribune to standalone TiVos. :confused:

Yeah I've been checking often too. I don't get it.. I just checked tvguide.com and even they acknowledge the existence of the new digital channels although I find it interesting it says a 3 of the new channels are HD! If only Tivo's and Media Center's used TVGuide's guide data, we'd be all set. :)

-----------------------------

Upon further checking out of TVGuide's guide data, I'm glad the Tivo's and Media Center's of the world don't use their guide data. They don't clearly mark which shows are actually in HD. I still find it odd that TVGuide is listing the new channels for OTA but Zap2It isn't.

Still nothing on Tribune's site ( www.zap2it.com ) and nothing from Tribune to standalone TiVos. :confused:

I'm tired of coming here EVERY DAY and being let down. I just don't get it why it takes this long for these companies to get all of this stuff on track. I may not be a programmer, but SHEESH! :confused:


IMO Zap2It isn't doing what their name says....

Not that it's gonna help, but I sent an e-mail off to Zap2It:

To: feedback@zap2it.com

Re: Line-up Discrepancy

# Cable System Name: DIRECTV South Bend (South Bend)
# Specific Description of Problem: digital channels missing - 25.1 (WCWW-LD), 57.1 (WBND-LD) and 69.1 (WMYS-LD)
# Provider Phone Number:
# Provider Service: satellite
# Apartment or Hotel Complex Name: N/A
# City: South Bend
# State or Province: IN
# Zip or Postal Code: 46614

We'll see if they respond or not....

Can someone with a Vip211 Dish receiver confirm 25.1 guide listing data? I've re-scanned, deleted , forced a guide update and about everything else I can think of and still do not have it showing.

57.1 came up first time

Thanks

Not that it's gonna help, but I sent an e-mail off to Zap2It:

To: feedback@zap2it.com

Re: Line-up Discrepancy

# Cable System Name: DIRECTV South Bend (South Bend)
# Specific Description of Problem: digital channels missing - 25.1 (WCWW-LD), 57.1 (WBND-LD) and 69.1 (WMYS-LD)
# Provider Phone Number:
# Provider Service: satellite
# Apartment or Hotel Complex Name: N/A
# City: South Bend
# State or Province: IN
# Zip or Postal Code: 46614

We'll see if they respond or not....


Thankyou! I used your info as a template and sent them this..

# Cable System Name: ATSC digital broadcast (Weigal Broadcasting)
# Specific Description of Problem: digital channels missing - 25.1 (WCWW-LD), 57.1 (WBND-LD) and 69.1 (WMYS-LD)
# Provider Phone Number:
# Provider Service: ATSC digital broadcast
# Apartment or Hotel Complex Name: N/A
# City: Elkhart
# State or Province: IN
# Zip or Postal Code: 46517

I used Weigal Broadcasting's number as the provider number since these stations are owned and provided by Weigal Broadcasting. Maybe if enough of us send these in, they'll put away the doughnuts and brush the Durrito's off their chest and actually start pounding on their keyboards as they should. That's right Tribune Media employees, Halo 3 can wait! LOL

Thankyou! I used your info as a template and sent them this..

# Cable System Name: ATSC digital broadcast (Weigal Broadcasting)
# Specific Description of Problem: digital channels missing - 25.1 (WCWW-LD), 57.1 (WBND-LD) and 69.1 (WMYS-LD)
# Provider Phone Number:
# Provider Service: ATSC digital broadcast
# Apartment or Hotel Complex Name: N/A
# City: Elkhart
# State or Province: IN
# Zip or Postal Code: 46517

I used Weigal Broadcasting's number as the provider number since these stations are owned and provided by Weigal Broadcasting. Maybe if enough of us send these in, they'll put away the doughnuts and brush the Durrito's off their chest and actually start pounding on their keyboards as they should. That's right Tribune Media employees, Halo 3 can wait! LOL
________
Thanks! After I sent the e-mail I thought, darn it! I should have put that they are OTA stations....

________
Thanks! After I sent the e-mail I thought, darn it! I should have put that they are OTA stations....

Your welcome and no problem! I just don't get how they operate because what kills me is they already have the digital guide data for 25.1 and 57.1 because that data already exists on the Comcast digital line up. Since 69.1 isn't even broadcasting anything in HD, it wouldn't be much to just barrow the guide listing from the NTSC broadcast since that also exists on the analog broadcast lineup. Couldn't they just copy or point to the listings on cable for the OTA lineup?

On a side note I've been noticing that digital channel WMWB now appears as WCWW-LD (cablecast) on the digital cable lineup.

I sent Zap2It another e-mail today except that I put Weigel Broadcasting and their phone number as (574) 243-4316.

Zap2It clearly states, "include the following information or your request will not be processed". Both of us did not include a contact number, so I put in Weigel's number this time.

People, let's flood Zap2It with correction requests and maybe then we will get the problem resolved! :D

"If you want to report a cable or satellite lineup discrepancy, you can help us resolve the problem more quickly by providing this information."

http://www.zap2it.com/services/site/zap-feedback,0,6935396.story

Dont get your hopes up on Tribune actually listening to your emails. I've been emailing them a lineup error on cable here for over 2 months now, and they wont add the channel back to the lineup, and they wont respond.

Dont get your hopes up on Tribune actually listening to your emails. I've been emailing them a lineup error on cable here for over 2 months now, and they wont add the channel back to the lineup, and they wont respond.

What we actually need is a person to bombard because just sending it to "feedback" I don't think will get the job done....

O.k. Now I've also sent my message to:

GENERAL MANAGEMENT
Rebecca Baldwin, General Manager
312-222-4503
rbaldwin@tribune.com

Ooooh! She already responded back:

"Hi. I'm not familiar with this issue, but will look into it today.

Thanks,

R."

I hope she does!

Can someone with a Vip211 Dish receiver confirm 25.1 guide listing data? I've re-scanned, deleted , forced a guide update and about everything else I can think of and still do not have it showing.

57.1 came up first time

Thanks

I have a 942, but I'll toss this out anyway:

25.1 guide data didn't appear until I deleted it and then manually added it back in. I don't know if it's the interference they're trying to resolve, but adding it through the OTA scan would not produce guide data.

do any of you have any inside sources about when directv will be getting the locals in HD?

they lied to me when i called to order, saying they already had them for this area, therefore i didnt get an off-air antenna installed when i got the slimline dish installed, and im guessing my waiver request to get the NYC fox, cbs, etc., won't get approved.

When I had the D* installed back in March, they told me by the end of the year. I'll believe it when I see it.

I have a 211, and I get the guide info for 25.1 & 57.1 :)
The rescan didn't get it to work, I had to MANUALLY put the digital channel # in to make it work.
BTW, I'm looking at a 622/722 and would like to know if its working there.

Thanks all, I did a manual input for 25.1 and the guide data filled in on my 211.

I also have a 622 and when I did a rescan they both came up with no troubles the first time.

My DirecTV receiver doesn't allow for you to add channels. In order to add channels, you have to do a scan and the scan won't pull up the new channels without The Tribune (Zap2It) having the data. I've once again e-mailed Rebecca with the specifics of the new stations added such as contact numbers for Weigel and the websites for the 25, 57 and 69. As of 10:30 a.m. today, no response from her nor from any other person from Zap2It, but it's only 9:30 in Chicago. I asked Rebecca to give me a contact name and info, if she's not the one to whom my situation should be addressed to. She responded pretty promptly yesterday, so I'm hoping she'll respond promptly today too. When she does, I'll update the site.

My DirecTV receiver doesn't allow for you to add channels. In order to add channels, you have to do a scan and the scan won't pull up the new channels without The Tribune (Zap2It) having the data. I've once again e-mailed Rebecca with the specifics of the new stations added such as contact numbers for Weigel and the websites for the 25, 57 and 69. As of 10:30 a.m. today, no response from her nor from any other person from Zap2It, but it's only 9:30 in Chicago. I asked Rebecca to give me a contact name and info, if she's not the one to whom my situation should be addressed to. She responded pretty promptly yesterday, so I'm hoping she'll respond promptly today too. When she does, I'll update the site.

Just so you guys know the exacts on the situation, here's the process: First, Tribune and Titan TV must have the new stations added in their database for most delivery systems to accept. Tribune/Titan DOES have the guide data and has since approx. 9/21. The next step is the delivery service must accept this new data and forward it to their applicable customers. Tribune adds new station data every day, it doesn't just automatically forward as most of the new entires that are added are not applicable to you, the delivery system must forward it. That's where the problem is.

As you know, Dish has already added it. After talking to almost a dozen folks who said "it's not my job" at DirecTV, I finally have the right contact there and she assured me this morning that it would be added shortly. Zap2it I have no idea where to start. If any of you have any contacts for Zap or any other delivery system that does not show our stations on their guide data please post or PM me.

The biggest issue is most of these digital STB/receivers were marketed after 98% of the DTV stations were on the air and they had to get it right from the start. When the last remaining full powers are built out or as the new low power digitals are built, there doesn't seem to be a good process in place at any of these systems to add new stations. Comcast, by far, has been the easiest to deal with... (Please don't start Comcast hate threads now)

Looks like Dish changed the call letters on 25 from WMWB over to WCWW today.

Just so you guys know the exacts on the situation, here's the process: First, Tribune and Titan TV must have the new stations added in their database for most delivery systems to accept. Tribune/Titan DOES have the guide data and has since approx. 9/21. The next step is the delivery service must accept this new data and forward it to their applicable customers. Tribune adds new station data every day, it doesn't just automatically forward as most of the new entires that are added are not applicable to you, the delivery system must forward it. That's where the problem is.

As you know, Dish has already added it. After talking to almost a dozen folks who said "it's not my job" at DirecTV, I finally have the right contact there and she assured me this morning that it would be added shortly. Zap2it I have no idea where to start. If any of you have any contacts for Zap or any other delivery system that does not show our stations on their guide data please post or PM me.

The biggest issue is most of these digital STB/receivers were marketed after 98% of the DTV stations were on the air and they had to get it right from the start. When the last remaining full powers are built out or as the new low power digitals are built, there doesn't seem to be a good process in place at any of these systems to add new stations. Comcast, by far, has been the easiest to deal with... (Please don't start Comcast hate threads now)

Thanks for the update! The whole situation just frustrates me! I'm one of those people that likes to do stuff now and not just hand it off to the next person to do, which I know alot of people are like the latter, wanting to get paid for a job they don't do.

I just setup Media Center 2005 and what a painful experience it was! Well anyway I discovered I was incorrect about WMWB being changed to WCWW on the digital cable listing. Apparently Vista decided it would remember that WMWB digital as WCWW-LD, but it can't remember to barrow the guide listings from the cable side of the guide. That brings me to setting up Media Center 2005 in hopes that MCE 2005 doesn't have this problem. So hopefully I'll finally get to see Smallville in HD.

Is anyone out there using competing DVR products such as SageTV? If so were you able to barrow guide listings from cable for the ATSC broadcasts with out any problems like I have been having with Vista MCE? I need an alternative to go to if MCE 2005 exhibits the same problem I've been encountering in Vista. Thanks!

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No new posts since my last one? Ok, I'll just update on this one then.

Well I successfully recorded Smallville on 25.1 (1251) on Media Center 2005 last night. I'm not sure if I just lucked out this time or if MCE 2005 doesn't have the same issue I have with Vista MCE. I guess I'll just have to put Vista MCE's recording duties on hiatus until either the real ATSC guide data shows up, or MS pushes a patch that fixes surrogate guide data. I'm not completely out of luck using Vista MCE though, I can still watch anything I recorded on MCE 2005 on Vista MCE.

If anyone else is using Vista MCE and is borrowing guide data from the cable listings successfully, please let me know.

Oh and I just want to note that Smallville looks awesome in HD! Unfortunately due to the nice little storm we had last night, I had quite a bit of artifacting, but it wasn't as bad as I expected. I was worried it would be unwatchable, but the artifacting really wasn't that bad. I'd just get a bit of pixelation every few minutes or even a or see a green dot or a line show up from time to time, but for the most part it looked fantastic considering the weather out there. For the most part it looked pretty clean and detailed. I got to say I'm impressed that I didn't lose any signal.. Usually when I do my recorded file either blacks out, divided up, or even just records a single frame of video for a while before there's any action again.. I thought for sure when we got hit by the storm last night that my recording was going to be ruined, but it came through just fine. So I'm a happy camper!

Oh and I just want to note that Smallville looks awesome in HD!

Sigh. No Smallville in HD out here in LaPaz: 25.1 still an unwatchable mess. Sure hope the interferring signal issue is taken care of soon...

I have read all the posts and still cant figure out exactly what is going on. I am trying to get 57 over the air and it wont pop up on either my Toshiba with a built in reciever or my tv with a set top box. Is there anything special I have to do or are the channels on and off the air? Sorry for the dumb question, but I am now fully frustrated. My location is Granger and I get good signals on the other channels.

I have read all the posts and still cant figure out exactly what is going on. I am trying to get 57 over the air and it wont pop up on either my Toshiba with a built in reciever or my tv with a set top box. Is there anything special I have to do or are the channels on and off the air? Sorry for the dumb question, but I am now fully frustrated. My location is Granger and I get good signals on the other channels.

Not off the air. You should have no problems receiving us. Check the aiming of your antenna and the cableing.

Sigh. No Smallville in HD out here in LaPaz: 25.1 still an unwatchable mess. Sure hope the interferring signal issue is taken care of soon...

Sorry but not a quick fix. Can you please describe the unwatchable mess?

I have read all the posts and still cant figure out exactly what is going on. I am trying to get 57 over the air and it wont pop up on either my Toshiba with a built in reciever or my tv with a set top box. Is there anything special I have to do or are the channels on and off the air? Sorry for the dumb question, but I am now fully frustrated. My location is Granger and I get good signals on the other channels.

Even though your tv has a built-in receiver, do you have a bunny ear antenna plugged into it? Without the bunny ears, you won't receive the channels....