South Bend, IN - HDTV [Text View] - Page 7

Trowbridge

10-20-07, 11:13 AM

I'm still having a bizarre problem with WNDU-DT.

For nearly a year, I had no trouble with the signal at all. Then suddenly, about a month ago, even though I get a strong 87-90% signal, it will briefly drop out every 10-30 seconds, resulting in breakups and/or freezes.

Logically, you'd think this was multi-path interference. But I live in a flat, rural neighborhood, and I've never experienced any sort of multi-path ghosting or interference with any of my analog stations.

And by far the weirdest part is that this problem started at precisely the moment when WBND-LD came on the air, even though the UHF frequencies for the two stations are nowhere close, so I can't fathom how 57.1 (UHF 49) could be interfering with 16.1 (UHF 42).

I'm hesitant to get up on the roof and adjust my antenna, because I've had it perfectly aimed for years, and as I indicated, I can't imagine that multi-path is truly the problem.

Any suggestions? Thanks!

nikitangc

10-20-07, 11:39 AM

Everybody fair the storms out there Thursday night?

Yeah, we faired them. No damage to my neighborhood, that I saw, thankfully!

sebenste

10-20-07, 12:52 PM

Yeah, we faired them. No damage to my neighborhood, that I saw, thankfully!

I used to vacation, for many years, at a place called Hoffman Lake Camp just northwest of Atwood in Kosciusko county. We'd visit Nappanee on occasion, and actually, much of my bedroom furniture...very well made...was done at a place that at the time was called "Amish Acres" on, I think, Route 6 on the west side of town. I know a 16-mile long-track tornado went through the city, so if they're still there, I hope everyone there and in the city is OK. The NWS ranked it a "strong EF3" on the Enhanced Fujita damage scale, which makes it a high-end "strong tornado" in meteorology lingo (if it was EF-4 or EF-5, it would be labeled "violent"). Nothing to sneeze at...

Mike Lang

10-20-07, 03:32 PM

Anyone have guide data news? I can't belive how long this is taking.

Tool2Die4

10-20-07, 03:48 PM

those were some wicked storms. hopefully all the posters here are OK.

still no guide data for me on 57-1, sadly.

justalurker

10-20-07, 06:10 PM

Everybody fair the storms out there Thursday night?Not too bad where most people live. The area that was hit the hardest was rural.
I used to vacation, for many years, at a place called Hoffman Lake Camp just northwest of Atwood in Kosciusko county. We'd visit Nappanee on occasion, and actually, much of my bedroom furniture...very well made...was done at a place that at the time was called "Amish Acres" on, I think, Route 6 on the west side of town. I know a 16-mile long-track tornado went through the city, so if they're still there, I hope everyone there and in the city is OK. The NWS ranked it a "strong EF3" on the Enhanced Fujita damage scale, which makes it a high-end "strong tornado" in meteorology lingo (if it was EF-4 or EF-5, it would be labeled "violent"). Nothing to sneeze at...This storm was a near EF4 ... first responders were shocked by the damage (then again, the last tornado like it in the area was in 2001 southwest of South Bend). Some likened it to the devastation of Katrina and Andrew (and these are people who went to New Orleans and Florida as volunteers to clean up after those storms). For the worst square mile of damage their description applies.

The path was 20 miles long starting down near Bourbon (East of Plymouth) and ending near Goshen. Debris from Nappanee was found 35 miles away in Constantine Michigan. The storm was at it's worse in Nappanee ... fortunately there was plenty of warning from the NWS and the major NBC affiliate (they were on the air with a live meteorologist continuously except five minutes before 9PM and about 15 minutes at 10PM ... the only moments during the evening when there was no active tornado warning anywhere in the viewing area). 200 to 250 homes and businesses damaged, 100 to 150 beyond repair. A few minor injuries - no deaths.

The major "tourist" part of town was spared. Amish Acres and Borkholder's Dutch Village are west of downtown. The tornado passed one mile east of the main intersection of US 6 and SR 19 (where CR 7 crosses US 6).
See map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Amish+Acres+Nappanee,+IN&sll=41.444013,-85.99308&sspn=0.061122,0.11673&ie=UTF8&ll=41.440153,-85.983982&spn=0.061126,0.11673&z=13&om=1)

(Here is another map (http://www.etruth.com/Know/Miscellaneous/StormMap.aspx) from the Elkhart Truth website.)

The path crossed just north of CR 1350 N south of town on SR19 through the corner of CR 9 and CR 34 (three miles northeast). In the middle was an RV factory that is gone, another that is damaged and at the NE end is a subdivision that was heavily damaged. (And of course there was 17 other miles of destruction.)

That end of town is where the bigger box stores are ... it is Nappannee, so no Wal*Mart or large chain stores ... but the fast food and largest groceries are on the north side of US 6 between CR 7 and CR 9 ... in the path of the storm. One grocery opened Friday after the storm on generator power.

Utility companies did an excellent job on Friday morning getting power back to 3600 homes/businesses (leaving just 400 without power). The mail was still delivered to everyone who had a home (75% of the town).

The public has been told to stay away from town until 10am tomorrow when non-professional volunteers will be allowed in to help finish the major clean up. It has been trained professionals only with heavy police presence.

The town will rebuild.

justalurker

10-20-07, 06:22 PM

More info .... Hope Crisis Response Network
http://hcrn.info/

HailScroob

10-21-07, 03:49 PM

Sorry but not a quick fix. Can you please describe the unwatchable mess?

I get 25.1 with a signal strength in the low 90s (about 20 points better than 57.1, which hovers in the low 70s), but while 57.1 comes in perfectly, all I see for 25.1 is scrambled eggs: dropouts, macroblocking, freezes and lots of lost signal lock errors. It's completely unwatchable. Signal meter jumps from 96 right to 0 and then back to 96, with no stops in between.

When I spoke of a resolution soon, I was referring back to this post, which gave some hope that a solution was not far off:

All:
As for 25.1 having signal issues, we believe we have found the problem. It is a signal other than ours that is within the channel 27 spectrum. Channel 27 is the physical RF channel for digital 25.1. I hope to work with the source of interference over the next week or so and that should make 25.1 just as strong as 57.1.

damaged76

10-21-07, 07:05 PM

Anyone else with an E* box lose ALL of the locals?
Mine dropped about 30 minutes ago and won't lock back on.

Foxbat

10-22-07, 02:27 AM

damaged76, if you have a ViP211, you need to force a reboot (press and hold the power for ten seconds or so). This bug seems to have returned in one of the recent firmware downloads.

hvs10trk

10-22-07, 06:13 AM

I get 25.1 with a signal strength in the low 90s (about 20 points better than 57.1, which hovers in the low 70s), but while 57.1 comes in perfectly, all I see for 25.1 is scrambled eggs: dropouts, macroblocking, freezes and lots of lost signal lock errors. It's completely unwatchable. Signal meter jumps from 96 right to 0 and then back to 96, with no stops in between.

When I spoke of a resolution soon, I was referring back to this post, which gave some hope that a solution was not far off:

Ahhhh, that interferrence. We're working on it.

hvs10trk

10-22-07, 06:15 AM

Anyone else with an E* box lose ALL of the locals?
Mine dropped about 30 minutes ago and won't lock back on.

D* had something similar a couple weeks ago. Although I power cycled my boxes and it took a while for the locals to be recognized again. :eek:

nikitangc

10-22-07, 11:16 AM

Anyone have guide data news? I can't belive how long this is taking.

I think they are gonna take their own sweet time. If they were the ones affected, they would have had that data inputed YESTERDAY.

rcjohn

10-22-07, 02:16 PM

During the NASCAR race yesterday 57-1 was at a high of about 66 on my VIP622, and kept falling off to 0. Very unwatchable, I checked and that was the only channel vacillating at all. Is this something in my equipment or are others having the same problem? The lowest signal I get on any other channel is about 89.

sebenste

10-22-07, 06:38 PM

More info .... Hope Crisis Response Network
http://hcrn.info/

Thanks, guys, for the info. Glad to hear Amish Acres is OK, but sorry to hear about the rest of the city and everyone in the path of the tornado. Glad there were no fatalities, at least. You can always rebuild...if you are alive.

nikitangc

10-23-07, 10:29 AM

Just so you guys know the exacts on the situation, here's the process: First, Tribune and Titan TV must have the new stations added in their database for most delivery systems to accept. Tribune/Titan DOES have the guide data and has since approx. 9/21. The next step is the delivery service must accept this new data and forward it to their applicable customers. Tribune adds new station data every day, it doesn't just automatically forward as most of the new entires that are added are not applicable to you, the delivery system must forward it. That's where the problem is.

As you know, Dish has already added it. After talking to almost a dozen folks who said "it's not my job" at DirecTV, I finally have the right contact there and she assured me this morning that it would be added shortly. Zap2it I have no idea where to start. If any of you have any contacts for Zap or any other delivery system that does not show our stations on their guide data please post or PM me.

The biggest issue is most of these digital STB/receivers were marketed after 98% of the DTV stations were on the air and they had to get it right from the start. When the last remaining full powers are built out or as the new low power digitals are built, there doesn't seem to be a good process in place at any of these systems to add new stations. Comcast, by far, has been the easiest to deal with... (Please don't start Comcast hate threads now)

O.k., guess it's time to contact them again as somebody was lying to you about it being "shortly" done.

Of course, I haven't heard anything from Rebecca at the Tribune. She probably has put a blocker on me as I keep trying to contact her. Out of sight, out of mind.

damaged76

10-23-07, 02:47 PM

Thanks foxbat, I went ahead and did that... its working again :)

manchild31

10-23-07, 02:54 PM

southsidebob123

10-23-07, 03:31 PM

New to the forums, but I was hoping someone could help me with an issue i'm having. First off, I am using an RCA ANT1250 amplified antenna to grab the OTA locals and I live about 1/2 mile due west of the St. Joe fairgrounds. My problem is that I have to re-scan for 57.1 at least 3 times a week due to losing the signal, and even when I re-scan, I have to adjust the antenna several times just to grab the signal. I get the rest of the local stations without any issues. Is this an antenna issue? Has anyone had better luck with reception by turning off the amplification on their antenna? Since I'm so close to the towers, I doubt I need any amplification at all, but I don't want to make the signal worse for the rest of my OTA stations. Is there a better indoor antenna I should buy? I'm not sure what else to do, but constantly losing the signal and having to re-scan over and over has become quite the burden. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

HailScroob

10-23-07, 03:32 PM

hvs10trk

10-23-07, 05:16 PM

Satsince1978

10-23-07, 05:30 PM

Rabbit ears may work better as you are under the tower and the radiated signal is aimed out and above you. One of the hardest places to receive good signals is close in and under the towers.
Jim

justalurker

10-23-07, 07:43 PM

Just went to watch my recorded Thursday night TV from WNDU and all I found was 2 hours worth of radar images. I understand that there was weather, but why does it have to be a major production? The weather does not change that fast to need nonstop coverage. Why can't this be put on a subchannel? Do they replay the missed shows?They have their company policy. They want to be the station people turn to when there is bad weather. Unfortunately they have also become the station people turn away from for the same reason. They remained live 100% out of the shows as long as there was a tornado warning somewhere in the viewing area. It was a long night.

Mike did made mention on air that the shows can be watched online at NBC.COM ... doesn't help those without decent online access.

At the other end of the spectrum is the stations that did just ran their feeds as if nothing were going on. :rolleyes: I assume an EAS banner played for the Nappanee Tornado (I hope one ran, I was watching WNDU wondering why they were still showing ER ... my home EAS box had already alerted me to the tornado and it was on their on screen display, but it seems like it took a good five minutes to get Mike back on the air.

It is a choice. I watch nearly everything tape delayed (including NASCAR, which was unwatchable from 57-1 ... I caught a replay on SPEED) and follow weather so the home EAS box is always ready to serve. As much as I like uninterrupted TV there is a public service aspect.

nikitangc

10-24-07, 07:48 AM

They have their company policy. They want to be the station people turn to when there is bad weather. Unfortunately they have also become the station people turn away from for the same reason. They remained live 100% out of the shows as long as there was a tornado warning somewhere in the viewing area. It was a long night.

Mike did made mention on air that the shows can be watched online at NBC.COM ... doesn't help those without decent online access.

At the other end of the spectrum is the stations that did just ran their feeds as if nothing were going on. :rolleyes: I assume an EAS banner played for the Nappanee Tornado (I hope one ran, I was watching WNDU wondering why they were still showing ER ... my home EAS box had already alerted me to the tornado and it was on their on screen display, but it seems like it took a good five minutes to get Mike back on the air.

It is a choice. I watch nearly everything tape delayed (including NASCAR, which was unwatchable from 57-1 ... I caught a replay on SPEED) and follow weather so the home EAS box is always ready to serve. As much as I like uninterrupted TV there is a public service aspect.

Yeah, I agree that WNDU does good for some people and annoys the other. On Thursdays, I usually watch mostly NBC, so for me, I DVRed pretty much a weather station all night. As for all the shows being available on NBC.com, that's not true as ER is not one of the shows that you can watch full episodes of and, what I did see of ER, I wasn't able to watch the ending because of the weather story. I'll have to try and download the episode through the newsgroups...

southsidebob123

10-24-07, 09:38 AM

Yeah I'd loose the amplifier. You shouldn't need any help with signal, heck you'd probably be good with a paper clip. :eek: You tuner is probably has too much signal. You could also try rabbit ears.
Thank you for the reply! Well I turned off the amp and that seems to have resolved the issue so far. I re-scanned and it found all the local stations, including 57.1, on the first attempt. I also noticed that 69.1 and 25.1 both have better reception all my stations were artifact-free last night for the first time since I started grabbing the OTA signals. I guess less really is more sometimes! Thanks again to both hvs10trk and Satsince1978 for their speedy advice!!

nikitangc

10-24-07, 02:29 PM

Heard from Rebecca at The Tribune. Here's an update:

Here's the latest update on your question.

R.

Rebecca Baldwin
General Manager
http://www.zap2it.com
435 N. Michigan Ave.
Chicago, IL 60611
312-222-4503

Hi Rebecca,

We are working with Mediastats to get these channels added to the digital product that DirecTV receives. I emailed them on Friday and prompted them again this morning. As soon as I hear, I will let you know. Thank you.

Tanya
TMS
x2313

manchild31

10-24-07, 07:20 PM

They have their company policy. They want to be the station people turn to when there is bad weather. Unfortunately they have also become the station people turn away from for the same reason. They remained live 100% out of the shows as long as there was a tornado warning somewhere in the viewing area. It was a long night.

Mike did made mention on air that the shows can be watched online at NBC.COM ... doesn't help those without decent online access.

At the other end of the spectrum is the stations that did just ran their feeds as if nothing were going on. :rolleyes: I assume an EAS banner played for the Nappanee Tornado (I hope one ran, I was watching WNDU wondering why they were still showing ER ... my home EAS box had already alerted me to the tornado and it was on their on screen display, but it seems like it took a good five minutes to get Mike back on the air.

It is a choice. I watch nearly everything tape delayed (including NASCAR, which was unwatchable from 57-1 ... I caught a replay on SPEED) and follow weather so the home EAS box is always ready to serve. As much as I like uninterrupted TV there is a public service aspect.

I do see the public service aspect, but now that we have and are going to mandate all Digital TV, why can't they broadcast the weather report on the substation?

justalurker

10-24-07, 07:33 PM

I do see the public service aspect, but now that we have and are going to mandate all Digital TV, why can't they broadcast the weather report on the substation?Not every channel has substations. We are fortunate that the FCC doesn't require more ... they do require the same announcements made on NTSC (analog) to be made on the ATSC (digital) feeds but the announcements themselves are not required.

It is a really messed up situation. We have an emergency alert system where the only required announcements are tests and the never used national alert. (That is how stations get away with making no announcements at all.) But IF a station chooses to make an announcement it has to be on all feeds.

NoToLowPower

10-24-07, 07:51 PM

WNDU has got to be the most craptastic channel in the midwest.
I'm guessing you've haven't watched Fort Wayne television in the past couple of years. :D

Tool2Die4

10-24-07, 09:40 PM

off topic, so i apologize, but does anyone know if south bend is in the blackhawks or the red wings market for hockey (for the few games that are actually televised)?

hvs10trk

10-24-07, 10:17 PM

off topic, so i apologize, but does anyone know if south bend is in the blackhawks or the red wings market for hockey (for the few games that are actually televised)?

It's ok. :D I'd venture to say the Blackhawks. You're in luck. It appears CSN (Comcast Sports Net) will be carrying a bunch more home games. Maybe not this season but definately next season.

rmcdonough

10-26-07, 06:37 PM

Still no guides for Directv???

Mike Lang

10-26-07, 07:02 PM

Still no guides for Directv???

I'm starting to think DTV & Tribune just aren't going to list them at all. :mad:

Phoenixfury

10-26-07, 07:04 PM

I'm starting to think DTV & Tribune just aren't going to list them at all. :mad:

I'm under the impression they are waiting for Christmas.. Next year.

puttputt

10-27-07, 12:19 AM

In case anybody is thinking of switching from rabbit ears to a roof-mounted antenna, here's a warning: the only company listed in the phone book for South Bend area antenna installations is Jojo Northside Antenna. Avoid them like the plague. They ripped me off by having me prepay for some work and then never showing up to do it. They did half the job, said they would be back the next morning, and still haven't shown up 10 days later. They don't have an answering machine and they don't pick up the phone. I haven't decided if it worth the hassle of small claims court to get my money back. I know that it was foolish to prepay, but I never would have guessed this was a scam. Don't fall for it like I did.

hvs10trk

10-27-07, 08:49 AM

puttputt

10-27-07, 04:50 PM

I wonder if some of you could help me see if a problem I'm having with CBS hi-def is just at my end or at the broadcast end. I'm watching the Florida-Georgia game on 22-1, and it is terrible quality. The hi-def seems to go in and out; it gets very fuzzy every 15 seconds or so. It's really noticable on the replays and on the scrolling scores. If you watch for just a couple of minutes, you should see what I mean. I've had this problem all year with football on WSBT hi def. Same for you or is it just me?

Mike Lang

10-27-07, 04:56 PM

Been that way forever. We've discussed it in this thread.

puttputt

10-27-07, 05:43 PM

Mike, yes it was me who raised the issue several pages back. But no other member ever said that they were seeing the same thing; instead, people commented on other issues related to CBS. Some commented that they thought that the CBS issues might be caused by their broadcasting at low power while they work on the antenna. My issue is that the hi-def SEC game are of such awful quality that it is striking, so I wondered if it might just be an issue with my equipment since I don't think that anybody other than myself commented specifically on the college football games.

Mike Lang

10-27-07, 05:47 PM

No, I'm talking about posts long before you were a member here. Search this thread for "blurry".

hvs10trk

10-27-07, 08:54 PM

Tool2Die4

10-28-07, 12:57 PM

JMO, but i think CBS's college games in HD are atrocious, but their NFL games are phenomenal. dunno what it is.

thedamaja

10-29-07, 09:48 AM

I sent an email off to E. Hale at WSBT last week about the microblocking and he confirmed my suspicions. This is due to there encoder not being able to handle the job of 3 digital channels when a bandwidth hungry event is playing on 22.1

The good news was that he also mentioned they are looking into updating there encoder which should happen next year when they move into a new studio.

Phoenixfury

10-29-07, 11:24 AM

nikitangc

10-29-07, 01:22 PM

I know you guys must be sick of this question, but for both mine and Mike Lang's sanity I'd like to know what ETA is on Tribune Media getting the guide data up for the new channels is. Does anyone have a clue? If we at least had an idea of when this might happen, we'd probably not moan and groan about it so much.

I'm in the same boat as you guys and probably a bunch of other lurkers who look at the board, but don't post. I don't know what else we can do to get the attention of these companies to comply. They just make a bunch of empty promises.

nikitangc

10-29-07, 02:35 PM

I got this from Rebecca Baldwin at The Tribune:

Hi, Rebecca,

I sent this on to lineups for research. They'll run it down for you.

You're welcome to send these emails directly to tmsdesk, lineups. This is the general lineup email box and is staffed M-F for this type of thing.

Pam Allen manages the department and can assist you with critical issues.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Thanks!
Vicki Reynolds

tvmicrowave2002

10-29-07, 07:37 PM

All,

We received the equipment to provide the guide data information for our South Bend digital stations. I hope to have it working tomorrow. Our guide data provider (NOT TMS) had a couple of XML errors that was causing the guide data to hang up. Once resolved, hopefully Tuesday, you will finally see guide data sent 4 days out on the OTA.

TMS/Zap2it and DirecTV is a seperate issue. Waiting for these clowns to follow through. I email the appropriate contacts EVERY DAY and they respond back with "working on it" about 50% of the time. I'll ramp up the pace to twice daily if we don't see something in the next 24 hours... Thanks for your individual efforts by emailing them directly.

Satsince1978

10-30-07, 09:34 AM

What gives with 34? Have they gone to digital only or are they having problems?

Kirby Baker

10-30-07, 09:53 AM

Anyone know if WSBT's tower work is finished yet? I noticed about a 10% jump in signal last night compared to several days ago, but I dont know if this was weather related or not.

nikitangc

10-30-07, 01:46 PM

nikitangc

10-30-07, 01:48 PM

What gives with 34? Have they gone to digital only or are they having problems?

Saw this posted on their website:

An Urgent Message To Our Viewers:
We are currently experiencing technical difficulties and our analog transmitter is off the air. We are working on the situation and hope to back on the air within the next few days.

* WNIT is STILL ON THE AIR ON DIGITAL.
* Viewers who have digital television sets are still able to view our programming.
* Viewers who receive Comcast cable and satellite (ie. Dish Network and DirectTV) are still able to view our programming.
* Only those viewers who receive us off-air (ie. antenna only) cannot receive our programming.

Please check back, as we will provide updates to keep viewers up to date with the latest information concerning this situation. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

http://www.wnit.org/

tvmicrowave2002

10-30-07, 05:47 PM

You should now see guide data on WCWW 25.1/WBND 57.1/WMYS 69.1 via OTA. Now that we have a true PSIP generator on-line, some of you who may have had weird issues with these stations may notice that such issues are no longer a problem. Thank you for your patience since 9/14 sign-on. The equipment needed to make this happen arrived yesterday and we did everything we could to config it as quickly as possible.

Comcast and Dish Network have had guide data for some time. As I mentioned in previous post, we're waiting on the clowns at DirecTV and Zap2It to "GetWithIt".

Other than the DirecTV and Zap2It guide issues, please post if you have ANY issues with these stations in the South Bend area. Keep in mind that WMYS broadcasts on physical channel 23 and has a very limited pattern so reception may be an issue with this station. You should not have reception issues with WCWW 25.1 or WBND 57.1. If you do, we want to resolve. If you are having issues, please post the nearest intersection and the type of antenna, height, and amplifier if used. Thanks!

HailScroob

10-31-07, 08:02 AM

Other than the DirecTV and Zap2It guide issues, please post if you have ANY issues with these stations in the South Bend area. Keep in mind that WMYS broadcasts on physical channel 23 and has a very limited pattern so reception may be an issue with this station. You should not have reception issues with WCWW 25.1 or WBND 57.1. If you do, we want to resolve. If you are having issues, please post the nearest intersection and the type of antenna, height, and amplifier if used. Thanks!

25.1 is still unwatchable for me. I get a signal strength in the low 90s (about 20 points better than 57.1, which hovers in the low 70s), but while 57.1 comes in absolutely perfect (as does 69.1), all I see for 25.1 is scrambled eggs: dropouts, macroblocking, freezes and lots of lost signal lock errors. It's completely unwatchable. Signal meter jumps from 92 right to 0 and then back to 92, with no stops in between. Once in a while when the screen freezes, the bottom half of the screen will be a frame from WNDU (I can see the NBC logo).

Since you say that there shouldn't be any more issues, does this mean you have addressed the interference issue on channel 27?

As for 25.1 having signal issues, we believe we have found the problem. It is a signal other than ours that is within the channel 27 spectrum. Channel 27 is the physical RF channel for digital 25.1. I hope to work with the source of interference over the next week or so and that should make 25.1 just as strong as 57.1.

If so, I guess that means I'm out of luck with WCWW...

Nearest Intersection: US6 and Pine Road (2.3 miles west of US6 and US31)
Antenna: Channel Master 4228, 16' off the ground
Amplifier: none
Receiver: Dish 942

TVM1

10-31-07, 06:27 PM

What gives with 34? Have they gone to digital only or are they having problems?

Channel 35 had a falure in the Visual High Voltage Power Supply. It is currently being repaired by a local electrical repair house. To let you know what this involves, the Power Supply is a Pad Mounted Transformer about the size of 3 refrigerators, the weight of a truck, and it is full of oil. The Diode rectifiers are also located in the oil, so the whole thing needs to be taken to the shop, oil drained, repaired, refilled with oil, returned and reinstalled.....simple eh.

rmcdonough

11-02-07, 09:00 PM

Another week and still no guides for directv.

joshhyde

11-03-07, 12:27 AM

Has anyone else noticed that the program info and time for 22-1 is an hour ahead of what it should be? At least that is what I'm seeing through my Samsung DLP tuner.

Phoenixfury

11-03-07, 12:36 AM

Has anyone else noticed that the program info and time for 22-1 is an hour ahead of what it should be? At least that is what I'm seeing through my Samsung DLP tuner.

Maybe your tv's internal clock might be an hour ahead too early? This weekend is when we change the clocks for daylight savings time. If it's not your tv, I'd say 22 jumped the gun then.

tvmicrowave2002

11-03-07, 03:50 PM

For your enjoyment...

Just so you doubters can see it first hand, here is the communications w/ DirecTV and Tribune Media Services. Like any email thread, start at the bottom and read up:

******
******

----- Original Message -----
From: MacNeil, Tanya A.
To: Kyle Walker
Cc: Wells, Leslie A. ; Threw, Tara B.
Sent: Thu Nov 01 11:37:31 2007
Subject: Client: WBND-ABC 57 / WCWW-CW 25 South Bend, IN and DirecTV

Hi Kyle,

The issue is that the product DirecTV currently receives from us does
not included low power digital channels. We are working on revising the
product to include these types of channels, which is the reason for the
delay. We should have this resolved soon and I will advise as soon as
they are available. I apologize for the delay and appreciate your
patience. Thank you!

Tanya
TMS

-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Walker
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:56 PM
To: MacNeil, Tanya A.
Cc:
Subject: WBND-ABC 57 / WCWW-CW 25 South Bend, IN and DirecTV
Importance: High

Tanya,

Could you please provide an update on this situation? This has been
going on for weeks. Titan TV resolved this weeks ago. DirecTV and
Zap2It are the only two services that are still the hold up. We receive
calls daily from angry DirecTV customers. Should we direct them to you
or someone else at TMS? Please advise. Thank you.

Kyle Walker
Director of Engineering,
Weigel Broadcasting Chicago
312.705.2675

-----Original Message-----
From: MacNeil, Tanya A.
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:56 PM
To: Yokers, James E; Mann, Amy A.
Cc: Wells, Leslie A.; Threw, Tara B.
Subject: Cliient: WBND/WCWW ATSC listings issue

Hi Jim,

We are working on this and I will advise when the channels are available
in the digital file. Thank you.

Tanya
TMS

Phoenixfury

11-03-07, 04:02 PM

tvmicrowave2002, thanks for going up to bat for us! It's just nice to know something is being done about this problem.

Personally I think Tribune Media Services needs to employ a similar program that Microsoft uses called WESYP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry7u6JF_B1c

Come to think about it, I need to take advantage of this Microsoft program because of the Vista Media Center guide problems I have been enduring.

justalurker

11-04-07, 12:19 AM

The issue is that the product DirecTV currently receives from us does
not included low power digital channels. We are working on revising the
product to include these types of channels, which is the reason for the
delay.So the reason why D* isn't getting the data is that D* isn't paying for the data?
E* manages to get the data. Do they subscribe to a better product? :)

deadeyehd

11-04-07, 08:41 AM

tvmicrowave2002, you mention in your last post that TitanTV resolved this weeks ago. I'm not seeing any of the new digitals in their line-up. I tried in both 46614 and 46561 zip codes. What am I missing?

bflora1952

11-04-07, 09:38 AM

I live southwest of South Bend close to the intersection of Harrison Rd. and Pecan Rd. I get 26-1 and 69-1 well, but very week signal on 57-1. I have a Channel Master 4 bow-tie outdoor antenna about 15 feet high with a Radio Shack distribution amp. I get all the other local channels well (analog and digital). Channel 57-1 seems to be much worse recently than when it started.

bflora1952

11-04-07, 09:40 AM

D*tv gets guide info for 57 and 25 analog that they retransmit. Both of which are low power.

hvs10trk

11-05-07, 06:15 AM

bflora1952

11-05-07, 08:13 AM

Analog 57 looks fair to good. Channel 57-1 seems particularly bad at night. I would guess interference or multipath distortion.

hvs10trk

11-05-07, 08:55 AM

Analog 57 looks fair to good. Channel 57-1 seems particularly bad at night. I would guess interference or multipath distortion.

Try taking your RF amp out of line and barrel the 2 connections together. You're only 10 miles from the tower farm, you shouldn't need one unless you have a dozen TV's or so. :eek: Amp's can introduce noise and distortion to your signal if they go bad. As far as interferrence, you shouldn't get any on RF CH 49. (That is unless we have some REALLY good tropo.):D

bflora1952

11-05-07, 09:12 AM

No help when removing amp.

bflora1952

11-05-07, 09:42 AM

rcjohn

11-05-07, 10:37 AM

I am southwest of South Bend near Mayflower Rd., and State Road 23. I am having the same problem with 57-1. Antenna mounted outside about 20' in the air no amp, signals of 88 or higher on all channels,except for 57-1 averages in the mid 60's and just drops out "signal lost" on both of my dishNetwork 622's. After it drops within a few seconds it is back on. I only watched the first 140 laps of the NASCAR race yesterday, but it did it twice in that time.

Phoenixfury

11-05-07, 12:41 PM

Sorry I'm a little slow at posting this, but I finally got around to watching Smallville this weekend and discovered at some point (I forgot to record how far into the show it was) the audio completely dropped out but then came back. Did anyone else notice this? I may skim through it to find out what point in the show it was. It did it the week before too except when the audio came back it crackled really badly. This occurred on 25.1 WCWW.

manchild31

11-05-07, 10:12 PM

bflora1952

11-06-07, 10:11 AM

Another week and still no guides for directv.

I noticed that Zap2it.com's tv listing for my zip code (46619) do not list the 3 low power digitals 25-1, 57-1, and 69-1. They say the low power digitals are not included in the package they deliver to Directv, but they don't include them in their over the air tv listings either.

hvs10trk

11-06-07, 05:17 PM

hvs10trk

11-06-07, 05:19 PM

On the full power digitals I get about 90 signal strength on my D* HR10. On 25-1 I get high 80's. On 69-1 I get 70's. On 57-1 I get mid 70's with complete drop outs to zero. The drops seem to be worsened by wind with even mild breeze making it unwatchable. At night the signal strength on 57-1 drops even lower in the high 40's to low 50's.

Signal changes in a breeze would signify a couple of things to look at. Is your antenna tightened down so it doesn't sway? Are all you connections tight? What kind of cable are you using? Aiming?

hvs10trk

11-06-07, 05:22 PM

bflora1952

11-06-07, 06:11 PM

Foxbat

11-06-07, 10:14 PM

Anybody else with Dish Network have this problem?I've got Dish's ViP622 and ViP211 and I have not seen this. But then, I'm only two miles from the antenna and have a nice little Spanish Yagi pointed at the towers.

JGTech

11-07-07, 07:31 AM

Signal changes in a breeze would signify a couple of things to look at. Is your antenna tightened down so it doesn't sway? Are all you connections tight? What kind of cable are you using? Aiming?

On windy days, would the movement of nearby trees that obstruct line of sight to the towers also cause signal dropouts, particularly with low power signals such as those from 57.1? Are more directional UHF antennas (Yagis as opposed to bowties) less susceptible to this type of interference?

hvs10trk

11-07-07, 09:06 AM

On windy days, would the movement of nearby trees that obstruct line of sight to the towers also cause signal dropouts, particularly with low power signals such as those from 57.1? Definately possible. Distance/density of trees would be the deciding factor. I live 50 miles NW of Chicago and only have a medium range UHF "V" which is shooting through a "typical" neighborhood with trees and I don't have problems. Are more directional UHF antennas (Yagis as opposed to bowties) less susceptible to this type of interference? The more gain the better off you are. Keep in mind too much gain is a bad thing and will cause your tuner to overload and you'll have reception problems. :eek: As far as wind interferrence with a tighter pickup pattern, wind "can, although not as likely", momentairly steer your antenna away from proper aiming. OTA is pretty robust and usually is forgiving.

JGTech

11-09-07, 07:30 AM

Definately possible...

Thanks for the information and advice.

nikitangc

11-09-07, 11:58 AM

bflora1952

11-10-07, 10:01 AM

Channel 25-1 is now in the Directv guide, but not 57-1 and 69-1 as of now.

seacrest

11-10-07, 10:51 AM

I see 25-1 in the directv guide but the receiver says it can't get a signal even though my tv picks it up fine. Did you have to re-initialize your antenna setup in the menu?

bflora1952

11-10-07, 11:25 AM

I see 25-1 in the directv guide but the receiver says it can't get a signal even though my tv picks it up fine. Did you have to re-initialize your antenna setup in the menu?
No need to do anything for me. My HR20-700S tuned it in with no problem.

nikitangc

11-10-07, 03:18 PM

I see 25-1 in the directv guide but the receiver says it can't get a signal even though my tv picks it up fine. Did you have to re-initialize your antenna setup in the menu?

I too have the 700 and it's coming in fine on mine. Now, to get 57.1 finally working. That would be the best!

Mike Lang

11-11-07, 09:19 AM

Now we're getting somewhere. Standalone TiVos woke up with 25.1 & 57.1 this morning.

nikitangc

11-11-07, 09:43 AM

Now we're getting somewhere. Standalone TiVos woke up with 25.1 & 57.1 this morning.

No sign of 57.1 on my HR20-700....

zap2it still doesn't list 25.1, 57.1 nor 69.1 as of this morning.

js2681

11-12-07, 06:17 PM

I am located right in the heart of Mishawaka. I have been considering an HR20-700. Called DTV today and the CSR told me that 25.1 and 57.1 are listed in their guide. Can anyone with the HR20 confirm this?

Also had an interesting conversation with Sharp regarding my Aquos LCD TV today (LC26D40U). I can not get any of the low power digital channels (25.1/57.1/69.1) on it. They first said that it must be the broadcast station. I explained that my Samsung STB (DTB-H260F) on the other TV pulls in a great signal on all three channels from the same rooftop antenna. They then explained to me that the Sharp was not designed to get ALL digital OTA channels. I am confused - an LCD tv with integrated ATSC tuner is not supposed to receive all OTA ATSC broadcasts? What gives? I didn't think that I bought a cheap LCD TV - for the price it should do it all. Am I wrong? Any advice regarding how I can get this thing to pick up these channels would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Ralph43

11-12-07, 06:44 PM

I have 2 Directv dvr's and only 25-1 shows up in the guide so far.

bflora1952

11-12-07, 06:44 PM

nikitangc

11-12-07, 07:17 PM

js2681

11-12-07, 08:25 PM

JGTech

11-12-07, 09:45 PM

Yes, I am aware of dbstalk. The reason that I would want the HR20-700 is the capability to watch and record OTA HD locals as well as satellite channels. However, if the HD/digital locals do not show in the program guide, I can not record them - correct? I know that the HR21 does not have OTA capability. That is the main reason that I am considering this now, while I can still get the HR20-700. The DTV CSR stated that there is no timetable to provide local HD channels via satellite for this market.

DTV isn't making me feel good about this possible upgrade. They can not guarantee that OTA will work for me (although I do receive all DTV locals on my samsung STB. I have leaned, the hard way, that all OTA tuners are not equal). DTV said that once the HR20 is installed I can not return it / get a refund on the upgrade fee / get out of the 2 year programming commitment if it doesn't work for me. I've been with them for almost 5 years. I just don't feel comfortable spending $300 up front for the receiver "lease" and committing to $70 x 24 months for the programming for a "maybe this will work" situation and/or if I can not get the major networks (including ABC 57) in HD.

Thanks for the input - any and all advice is appreciated.

HR20-700 DVRs cannot currently receive or record WBND 57.1 due to the absence of guide data. There is a workaround, however. By entering 23235 as the zip code of your secondary local market in the HR20’s antenna setup, you can watch and record WBND 57.1. The catch is that the guide data is for a PBS station in Richmond, VA. H20 receivers can receive 57.1 but the guide displays “regular schedule” rather than program information. At the moment, D* is not delivering guide data for WBND 57.1. Stay tuned to this thread for further developments in the continuing saga of TMS and D* vs. customers who want their ABC. :)

The HR20-700’s OTA tuners work as well as, if not better than, any of my other 4 HDTV tuners. If you complain to the right D* tech support CSR about problems with your current receiver or DVR, you can upgrade to the HR20-700 for considerably less than $300. :)

I purchased a Sharp Aquos LCD for my bedroom last year. Out of the box, it was defective. After a very unsatisfactory experience with Sharp customer service and some advice from a local TV repair service, I exchanged the set for a Samsung.

nikitangc

11-12-07, 10:26 PM

Yes, I am aware of dbstalk. The reason that I would want the HR20-700 is the capability to watch and record OTA HD locals as well as satellite channels. However, if the HD/digital locals do not show in the program guide, I can not record them - correct? I know that the HR21 does not have OTA capability. That is the main reason that I am considering this now, while I can still get the HR20-700. The DTV CSR stated that there is no timetable to provide local HD channels via satellite for this market.

DTV isn't making me feel good about this possible upgrade. They can not guarantee that OTA will work for me (although I do receive all DTV locals on my samsung STB. I have leaned, the hard way, that all OTA tuners are not equal). DTV said that once the HR20 is installed I can not return it / get a refund on the upgrade fee / get out of the 2 year programming commitment if it doesn't work for me. I've been with them for almost 5 years. I just don't feel comfortable spending $300 up front for the receiver "lease" and committing to $70 x 24 months for the programming for a "maybe this will work" situation and/or if I can not get the major networks (including ABC 57) in HD.

Thanks for the input - any and all advice is appreciated.

Before I had my HR20-700, I had DVR with Tivo, which I currently have in another room in the house. When I first got the HR20-700, I fought it because I was so used to the Tivo technology (R10), but now that I've had many, many updated releases, I love my HR20-700. I would not invest in the HR21 because of the no OTA capability. I am not holding my breath for the HD locals to appear for DirecTV here in South Bend any time soon.

wjmorgan2

11-13-07, 04:02 AM

BeyondTV now has 25.1 and 57.1 in their guide. Zap2It still no luck. I don't know what provider BeyondTV uses but I created a ticket a couple months ago and they told me it would take 4-6 weeks. It is now there.

tvmicrowave2002

11-13-07, 09:45 AM

HR20-700 DVRs cannot currently receive or record WBND 57.1 due to the absence of guide data.

WBND/WCWW/WMYS all have guide data OTA

Phoenixfury

11-13-07, 11:16 AM

I'm still not seeing any of the new digital channels on Zap2It at all. I'm not sure if anything changed with the Media Center guide data.. I think the only reason Vista Media Center has been holding onto the interim guide data is only because I've been using XP Media Center to record instead. I'm too nervous to fool around with the EPG because it's a huge hassle if the real guide data isn't there. Considering I do not see the new digital channels at Zap2It's site, I assume the real guide data for those channels are still not there.

bflora1952

11-13-07, 11:45 AM

Before I had my HR20-700, I had DVR with Tivo, which I currently have in another room in the house. When I first got the HR20-700, I fought it because I was so used to the Tivo technology (R10), but now that I've had many, many updated releases, I love my HR20-700. I would not invest in the HR21 because of the no OTA capability. I am not holding my breath for the HD locals to appear for DirecTV here in South Bend any time soon.

Since 25-1 has been added to the Directv guide data, something is obviously being done to add these new locals. The delay is indeed annoying, but I doubt that they would only add 25-1 and not add 57-1. I am also hoping for 69-1.

JGTech

11-13-07, 11:50 AM

WBND/WCWW/WMYS all have guide data OTA

Yes, and thanks for that effort and expense. The problem is that DirecTV equipment does not receive guide data OTA. DirecTV equipment receives guide data via satellite download. Without guide data, DirecTV DVRs cannot receive OTA channels at all. WCWW 25.1 guide data was available Saturday morning. WBND 57.1 and WMYS 69.1 are still not available, however. Would you please remind your contacts at TMS and DirecTV that you still have many anxious viewers that cannot receive your WBND and WMYS digital broadcasts? Thanks again for your efforts to bring The CW, ABC and WMYS digital broadcasts to everyone in our area.

Phoenixfury

11-13-07, 02:26 PM

I thought when the satellite providers were updated that the OTA listings would be updated too.. Again I feel lke I've been left on the back burner.. Zap2It still doesn't list the new digital channels for OTA which Media Center is dependant on.. I wish Microsoft would have been considerate in letting it's users use the OTA guide data instead of having to leave it entirely in the hands of Trubune Media Services.. If I use the Avermedia TV tuner software, I can pull that guide data in, it's too bad I can't use it interim of the missing data that is not yet available to us. This is so frustrating!

nikitangc

11-13-07, 09:11 PM

Yes, and thanks for that effort and expense. The problem is that DirecTV equipment does not receive guide data OTA. DirecTV equipment receives guide data via satellite download. Without guide data, DirecTV DVRs cannot receive OTA channels at all. WCWW 25.1 guide data was available Saturday morning. WBND 57.1 and WMYS 69.1 are still not available, however. Would you please remind your contacts at TMS and DirecTV that you still have many anxious viewers that cannot receive your WBND and WMYS digital broadcasts? Thanks again for your efforts to bring The CW, ABC and WMYS digital broadcasts to everyone in our area.

And I'm in the same boat. The whole OTA channel problem is one that us DirecTV DVR users have the problem with and find it very frustrating. I understand that I can put in a secondary zip code to get an HD ABC channel with my DVR, but I don't want to add a zip code that isn't mine. I've suffered this long with the SD ABC local, but am praying that these people get off their butts and rectify the situation.

tvmicrowave2002

11-14-07, 06:07 AM

Since 25-1 has been added to the Directv guide data, something is obviously being done to add these new locals. The delay is indeed annoying, but I doubt that they would only add 25-1 and not add 57-1. I am also hoping for 69-1.
DirecTV and TMS seem to be in no hurry. They just keep telling me that they're working on it. Since DirecTV refuses to carry channel 69 SD, they will not open the guide data to display 69 DTV even though it is simply picking it up over the air and using their STB as a tuner. Nothing we can do about that. Customer complaints is the only way you can make a difference here..

bflora1952

11-14-07, 11:23 AM

justalurker

11-14-07, 01:27 PM

DirecTV and TMS seem to be in no hurry. They just keep telling me that they're working on it. Since DirecTV refuses to carry channel 69 SD, they will not open the guide data to display 69 DTV even though it is simply picking it up over the air and using their STB as a tuner. Nothing we can do about that. Customer complaints is the only way you can make a difference here..E* has the same problem ... no carriage of 69 means no guide data for 69.1 (although E* customers can watch and manually record the channel). In E*'s case they would have to uplink the EPG for the channel and tie it to your TSID. Neither D* or E* use OTA for EPG ... it isn't reliable.

If they relied on OTA EPG the receivers would have to scan all of the local channels on a regular basis (physically tune them) ... read the data being provided by the OTA. Combine it with the data for the hundreds of satellite channels on the receiver and make it available for display. The EPG would only be as current as the last channel scan. GOOD stations may have accurate EPG data (not just filler) out a couple of days. My satellite guide goes out 9 days.

It is easier on the receiver and more reliable to just buy the data from a source and put up an EPG channel. E* has a few hundred of these for OTA sub channels for the station they carry. Getting 69.1 data up would only cost them one more line in their EPG. I hope they do it (and I hope D* does whatever they need to do to get the EPG to their customers).

jhs33

11-14-07, 09:09 PM

Tribune Media Service now lists 25.1 and 57.1 in there guide but not 69,1.

nikitangc

11-14-07, 09:17 PM

Tribune Media Service now lists 25.1 and 57.1 in there guide but not 69,1.

That's a step in the right direction. I just checked my DirecTV HR20-700 and 57.1 still is not in the guide....

jhs33

11-15-07, 06:27 AM

That's a step in the right direction. I just checked my DirecTV HR20-700 and 57.1 still is not in the guide....

Same here. I even reran setup to see if that would get 57.1 to show up in the directv guide but hasn't yet.

Phoenixfury

11-15-07, 11:21 AM

Well I have good news and bad news. The good news is I now see the digital broadcast data for 25.1 and 57.1 on Zap2It's site.. The bad news is Windows Media Center doesn't see this new data at all.. I wasn't able to confirm this on my desktop PC, but I did check on my notebook using my best friend's USB digital tv tuner. I am so frustrated that I'm really starting to think I need to check out competing products meaning something else other than Media Center and anything that doesn't use Tribune Media Services guide.. However I enjoy Media Center a lot, so I'll try to hold out a bit longer to see if they get this worked out.. ARRGGGHHH!!!!!

Oh on a side note, I left me pc running Vista Media Center last night.. Oddly enough 25.1's guide data didn't just disappear, 25.1 just kind of dropped off the guide. So I re-entered it and thankfully the guide entry and the guide data reappeared. That was strange, but at least the guide data stayed with that channel, but I don't know if the listing will reliably stick. For anyone reading about my situation for the first time, I'm using Vista Media Center and using digital cable guide listings to cover the missing digital OTA guide listings.

nikitangc

11-15-07, 10:03 PM

Here's the latest from Tribune:

25.1 is resolved. 57.1 is still being researched. We have added the channel to the digital product DirecTV receives and have confirmed the virtual numbers are correct. Everything seems to be ok on this end, but the channel contact states they are still not seeing it.

69.1 will be added to the digital product tomorrow and should be resolved by the end of the week.

js2681

11-17-07, 01:07 PM

Have any HR20-700 users seen the 57.1 guide data on their receivers yet?

JGTech

11-17-07, 01:56 PM

Have any HR20-700 users seen the 57.1 guide data on their receivers yet?

Not on mine. I had removed Zip Code 23235 as the secondary local market but added it again so I can watch or record football and NASCAR this weekend.

nikitangc

11-20-07, 10:08 AM

Still no 57.1 on my HR20-700. So much for taking a few days to "kick in" to programming....

Ralph43

11-20-07, 06:45 PM

I did the same thing but still no 57-1. I may put 23235 in before I record anything.

JGTech

11-23-07, 02:51 PM

Guide data for 69.1 has finally appeared, but still no 57.1.

Ralph43

11-23-07, 07:53 PM

I can not believe that the ABC local will be the last one to be in the guide.

ellundo

11-24-07, 06:52 PM

I live four miles north of Niles MI. and just placed an order for two Dishnetwork 722 dvr's. I was told when I placed the order that I will be able to receive our local channels in HD through my dish. Can anyone here confirm this? Since I think the people I was talking to were located off shore and don't speak English as a first language I don't have a lot of confidence in their info. I also wonder how many HD channels Dishnetwork actually supplies at this time if you are at their highest package level. I find the info on the website a little confusing as far as the claims they make for their HD package. I currently get my HD over the air from an antenna mounted in the attic above my garage. When 57.1 first came on the air my Samsung set found it but now it no longer comes in although I do get 69.1 which I never watch. 25.1 also came in for a while but hasn't lately. I realize these are all low power and my antenna setup is far from optimal but it seems strange that I get 69.1 but not the other two.

justalurker

11-25-07, 12:42 AM

The only way you will get local network channels via Dish or DirecTV at this time is over the air. You should be close enough to put up an antenna and aim it at the south side of South Bend where the towers are. All major networks are available in HD over the air.

DBSTalk (http://dbstalk.com/) (a forum under the same ownership as AVSForum dedicated to discussing DBS) would be a good place to start on the deeper questions. Counting channels and comparing advertising to reality is a specialty!

For example: By my count, Dish's top package (AEP) will deliver 42 HD channels plus whatever RSNs you qualify for (game only). Dish claims "over 75" but I'm not that charitable. :)

ellundo

11-25-07, 10:06 AM

Thanks for the link to DBSTalk, it should prove to be very interesting/informative. I have considered switching satellite providers but I am hoping that to remain competitive both systems will eventually offer about the same options. I get all the S.B. market channels in hd with my current antenna setup except for 25 & 57. I would like to get 57.1 because of the sports programming but that may not be possible for now.

wjmorgan2

11-25-07, 02:16 PM

HailScroob

11-26-07, 03:10 PM

BeyondTV now has 69.1 in the guide. So all 3, 25.1, 57.1 and 69.1. All come in perfect and have been coming in perfect since day one. I live about by Cleveland and Ironwood, about 8 miles from antenna's. I have a Antennas Direct DB2 antenna with an old small radio shack amplifier. Works perfect and have never had any problems with reception coming in or out. Antenna is about 5-6 ft. higher then peek of one story roof. My dad has an antenna similiar to mine and he live over by Edwardsburgh and also has had no problems with reception either.

The situation in LaPaz has actually gotten worse since the leaves fell: used to be that just 25.1 was totally unwatchable (some kind of signal interference that I guess couldn't be corrected); 57.1 came in great. Now 57.1 has been suffering major dropouts too. My neighbors gave up and put a new antenna on their old tower and now get their HD from Chicago. Hate the look of that big thing next to the house, but I guess it's either that or continue to put up with the crappy locals provided by Dish...

hvs10trk

11-27-07, 08:54 AM

The situation in LaPaz has actually gotten worse since the leaves fell: used to be that just 25.1 was totally unwatchable (some kind of signal interference that I guess couldn't be corrected); 57.1 came in great. Now 57.1 has been suffering major dropouts too. My neighbors gave up and put a new antenna on their old tower and now get their HD from Chicago. Hate the look of that big thing next to the house, but I guess it's either that or continue to put up with the crappy locals provided by Dish...

I wonder if you're getting multipath from those silo's on the west end of town. Are you close to those?

hvs10trk

11-27-07, 10:51 AM

The situation in LaPaz has actually gotten worse since the leaves fell: used to be that just 25.1 was totally unwatchable (some kind of signal interference that I guess couldn't be corrected); 57.1 came in great. Now 57.1 has been suffering major dropouts too. My neighbors gave up and put a new antenna on their old tower and now get their HD from Chicago. Hate the look of that big thing next to the house, but I guess it's either that or continue to put up with the crappy locals provided by Dish...

Did you and your neighbor both have outdoor antennas the whole time? Any problems with our analogs (25, 57, 69)?

rmcdonough

11-27-07, 03:13 PM

Still no 57-1 on directv, coming soon????

hvs10trk

11-27-07, 03:53 PM

Still no 57-1 on directv, coming soon????

Your guess is as good as mine. We can only show them the door. :D

HailScroob

11-27-07, 04:02 PM

I wonder if you're getting multipath from those silo's on the west end of town. Are you close to those?

Nope; my line of sight towards your towers is an open corn field.

Tool2Die4

11-27-07, 07:11 PM

have any directv users figured out a workaround for getting 57-1 to show up in the HD filter in the guide, just as 'regular scheduled programming' or whatnot? i'm extraordinarily lazy, and pushing the extra buttons to get back to the full guide to view 57-1 is simply too much.

nikitangc

11-28-07, 08:36 AM

HR20-700 DVRs cannot currently receive or record WBND 57.1 due to the absence of guide data. There is a workaround, however. By entering 23235 as the zip code of your secondary local market in the HR20’s antenna setup, you can watch and record WBND 57.1. The catch is that the guide data is for a PBS station in Richmond, VA. H20 receivers can receive 57.1 but the guide displays “regular schedule” rather than program information. At the moment, D* is not delivering guide data for WBND 57.1. Stay tuned to this thread for further developments in the continuing saga of TMS and D* vs. customers who want their ABC. :)

The HR20-700’s OTA tuners work as well as, if not better than, any of my other 4 HDTV tuners. If you complain to the right D* tech support CSR about problems with your current receiver or DVR, you can upgrade to the HR20-700 for considerably less than $300. :)

I purchased a Sharp Aquos LCD for my bedroom last year. Out of the box, it was defective. After a very unsatisfactory experience with Sharp customer service and some advice from a local TV repair service, I exchanged the set for a Samsung.

This is the only work around that we can currently use. I have once again e-mailed the contact I have at The Tribune to see what the status is on this saga. I'll post whatever she reports back to me.

hvs10trk

11-28-07, 09:01 AM

Nope; my line of sight towards your towers is an open corn field.

Well there you have it, ITS THE CORN!!!! :D Out of curiosity do you and/or your neighbor have any problems with WHME-DT??? Check them when WBND is really bad if you don't mind and let me know what you find.

tvmicrowave2002

11-28-07, 09:21 AM

Apparently, after rounds and rounds of emails w/ DirecTV and TMS, Tribune did not build the PSIP file correctly for WBND. It should be fixed within the next day or so I'm told.

nikitangc

11-28-07, 10:09 AM

Apparently, after rounds and rounds of emails w/ DirecTV and TMS, Tribune did not build the PSIP file correctly for WBND. It should be fixed within the next day or so I'm told.

Crossing fingers and toes AGAIN.....

Thanks for the info!

Ralph43

11-28-07, 07:06 PM

Thank you for helping us out here in D land.

ellundo

11-28-07, 10:14 PM

justalurker

11-29-07, 01:50 AM

E* has had the EPG info for several weeks for 025-01 and 057-01.
I don't expect info for 069-01 ... but it would be real nice if they would get that working.

The ViP tuners are pretty good. Glad you can get the channels.

nikitangc

11-29-07, 06:48 AM

I had two E* 722DVR's installed today. I just connected my OTA feed into one of them and did a local channel scan and it picked up all the local hd channels including 25-1,57-1,69-1. The last time I did a channel scan on my Samsung DLP set it didn't pickup 25-1 or 57-1. Is the tunner in the sat dvr better than the one in my tv? Also they all show up in my program guide. I was under the impression from what I've read here that seeing that info was a problem.

My dad has DISH and he's been able to see those channels in his guide for quite some time, even if they just said "local programming". It's us DirecTV people that have been having a problem seeing 57-1 and 69-1, but 69-1 now is in the DirecTV guide, just waiting now for them to get 57-1 all in line.

HailScroob

11-29-07, 07:57 AM

Did you and your neighbor both have outdoor antennas the whole time? Any problems with our analogs (25, 57, 69)?

Sorry for the delay: I had to scan the analogs into my Dish 942...

57 and 57.1 were both fine last night. Ditto 69 and 69.1. 25 had no issues at all, while 25.1 (a.k.a 27) was all break ups. Whatever became of that other signal on 27 that was interferring with 25.1? Were you not able to get the other party off of your frequency?

HailScroob

11-29-07, 08:11 AM

Well there you have it, ITS THE CORN!!!! :D Out of curiosity do you and/or your neighbor have any problems with WHME-DT??? Check them when WBND is really bad if you don't mind and let me know what you find.

Children of the Corn XXI: The Signal Stealers ???

Although I rarely watch it, every time I have flipped over to 46.1 it has 100% signal and I've never noticed a hiccup. That includes last night. It seems to be the strongest digital station in LaPaz; 28.1 is a close second.

Funny you mentioned WHME. My station list from TV Fool (see attached JPG) shows an "adjacent channel warning" for 46.1 and 57.1. Is it possible that 100 signal WHME-DT is messing with 70 signal 57.1 out in corn country?

hvs10trk

11-29-07, 12:04 PM

Sorry for the delay: I had to scan the analogs into my Dish 942...

57 and 57.1 were both fine last night. Ditto 69 and 69.1. 25 had no issues at all, while 25.1 (a.k.a 27) was all break ups. Whatever became of that other signal on 27 that was interferring with 25.1? Were you not able to get the other party off of your frequency?
Well we own the other 27 (WCIU-DT) in Chicago. We don't have much control over the antenna pattern since its a common antenna at Sears Tower. I can't really get into why 27 was chosen for South Bend, but clearly it doesn't work too well. :o

hvs10trk

11-29-07, 12:08 PM

Children of the Corn XXI: The Signal Stealers ???

Although I rarely watch it, every time I have flipped over to 46.1 it has 100% signal and I've never noticed a hiccup. That includes last night. It seems to be the strongest digital station in LaPaz; 28.1 is a close second.

Funny you mentioned WHME. My station list from TV Fool (see attached JPG) shows an "adjacent channel warning" for 46.1 and 57.1. Is it possible that 100 signal WHME-DT is messing with 70 signal 57.1 out in corn country?

Funny you mention the interferrence. :D That's exactly what I was going for. An ajacent channel at a stronger power practically in the same line of site as ours could be a culprit. We'll do some trouble shooting to see what we can find. Thanks for passing on the info. :)

nikitangc

11-30-07, 09:41 AM

57.1 is now in the guide! Made my day! :D

lmacmil

11-30-07, 10:15 AM

I see lots of posts noting signal strength? I assume this is a TV function. Do all TVs have it? I have never found it in my Sony 50E2000 but maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.

I'm curious but in my location just west of UP mall in a wooded sub, 22.1 cuts in and out with some frequency and last time I tried (a couple weeks ago), 57.1 didn't come in at all.

hvs10trk

11-30-07, 11:49 AM

57.1 is now in the guide! Made my day! :D

Good to hear. We've been advised the proper info has been delivered to DirectTV as of this morning.

Ralph43

11-30-07, 06:50 PM

Yeah, thank you goes to all who helped get 57-1 and the others on the air and in the guide.

Mike Lang

11-30-07, 08:48 PM

Yay!

Foxbat

11-30-07, 10:52 PM

A quick question: Do the DirecTV HD customers now get EPG guide data for WCWW-LD, WBND-LD, and WWMY-LD? If so, does that mean that Dish Network HD customers are the only ones without WWMY-LD data?

tvmicrowave2002

12-01-07, 09:57 AM

Phoenixfury

12-02-07, 12:28 AM

I have good news and frustratingly bad news... I do see all 3 of the new digital stations on Zap2It's site. However this is where the bad news comes in for me as a Vista Mediacenter owner.. For whatever reason 57-1's signal totally dropped out on me.. I tried to take the channel out of the program guide then put it back in.. It refused to come back.. So I rescanned all the cable and local channels. 57-1 did come back but at a very low signal as before. (I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to re-aim the outdoor antenna again.. However this exposed an on going extremely frustrating problem.. All 3 of the new channels still have to be entered into Windows Media Center manually. It doesn't look like it's grabbing the OTA listings, I still have to assign each channel the existing cable listing data. However since Mediacenter does pick up all of the other digital channels and even matches up the guide data for them, why won't it pick up the 3 new channels and grab the listings for them? Does Weigel or Tribune Media need to call Microsoft and hound on them now?

At least you Tivo owners had half a clue who you need to bug to get things done.. I have no clue.. I'm really starting to hate being a Mediacenter owner which sucks because I love Mediacenter.. UGH!

topp

12-02-07, 10:43 AM

Does anyone else here use Comcast cable and their QAM tuners to get their digital channels? Lately I have not been able to get ABC 57-#, so I was wondering if anyone else is having the same issue. For almost a year now it was working fine, but I noticed it missing the other week. Most of the time I use my antenna for my HD watching, but I pull most of my channels from Chicago. For what it is worth I am located in Baroda, Michigan.

Thanks,
Topp

Tool2Die4

12-02-07, 12:51 PM

22-1 off the air?

Tool2Die4

12-02-07, 01:32 PM

22-1 off the air?

back up now {shrug}

morphinapg

12-02-07, 03:50 PM

Anybody know when ABC will have 5.1? Will it be in time for LOST in February?

hvs10trk

12-03-07, 09:36 AM

Anybody know when ABC will have 5.1? Will it be in time for LOST in February?

No time frame set yet.

thedamaja

12-03-07, 03:36 PM

Yes Foxbat. DirecTV is providing guide data for WCWW-LD, WBND-LD, and WMYS-LD. Dish Network will not add WMYS-LD to their guide data because they do not carry WMYS-LD in their local into local package. The more customer complaints they receive, the more likely the chance they will add it.

Dish uplinks EPG data for both 34.1 and 22.3 both, digital locals they do not carry.Although I'm sure sending them a friendly note wouldn't hurt anything.

justalurker

12-04-07, 12:51 AM

Dish carries 34-0 (the same as 34-2), 22-0 (same schedule as 22-1), "30-0" (sourced from 22-2) and 46-0 (the same as 46-1). These are part of their via satellite local into local channels (16-0, 25-0 and 57-0 are also carried).

Although Dish also carries EPG for 34-1 (PBS-HD), 22-3 (Weather) and 46-2 (WHT) these are subchannels related to something they carry.

69-0 isn't carried and was WRDY when Dish first launched locals in our market. It would be NICE if Dish added the EPG channel since they do carry related networks from the same ownership (25 and 57) but getting that through their logic filter is a bit tough. I was SPECIFICALLY TOLD by a CSR that Dish does not provide EPG for channels that they don't uplink when I complained about missing 16-2, 22-2, 22-3 and 34-1 a few months ago. I forwarded the reply to the CEO address. Obviously false information (as Dish has a couple thousand non-uplinked subchannels in their master EPG).

Yes ... Dish customers need to complain - but not get too hopeful. There is some thick headedness going on there. :)

manchild31

12-04-07, 06:29 PM

musenji

12-05-07, 08:52 PM

Hey guys, I'm new. I know this question has probably been asked a few times before, though with different specifications.

What are the minimal requirements to be able to pick up our local digital channels (16.1, 22.1, etc)?

My setup:

Sony KDL-32S2010 32" Bravia S-Series LCD HDTV. The TV has a built-in ATSC digital tuner. But not QAM.

I do not have a separate tuner, and I do not have cable. Just the standard network stations. From everything I know, the ATSC tuner in the set should be picking up the digital local channels, but it's not. Analog signals are coming in just fine.

Any ideas? Do I need QAM to pick up our local digital signals? Or just ATSC, and something's messed up?

janko

12-05-07, 09:21 PM

You should get the local HD signal if you can get the analog. Try checking your channel set-up and tell it to auto program only ATSC (or digital).

musenji

12-05-07, 11:14 PM

Tried that--doesn't work. :/

edit: (I had done that before, actually. Yeah, I'm sure it was the digital I was telling it to auto-program. It's in its own menu.)

janko

12-06-07, 03:33 PM

I'd say it's a malfunction with the tuner -- hopefully under warranty?

musenji

12-07-07, 06:06 AM

So you're confirming that I don't need a QAM-capable tuner, and in fact only need an ATSC?

Yeah, it should still be under warranty. So if I'm not supposed to need a QAM tuner, then I'll take it in for repair.

edit: Hey, just received the following from WNDU:

"WNDU’s high definition ATSC signal is broadcast over the air using 8VSB modulation on UHF spectrum and if you are receiving all the local analog channels through your antenna perfectly in Elkhart then all the local digital channels are arriving there as well.

Since your Sony Bravia’s built-in NTSC analog tuner is performing perfectly, then not receiving the digital channels on it’s built in ATSC tuner is a mystery. (Only viewers receiving their signals from a cable system would require a QAM-capable tuner.)

We recommend checking the Instruction Manual as there may be some setup step or menu item set incorrectly, otherwise it would seem your set is broken and you need a visit from a repairman."

So, it's off to the manual, now...

Nope, the manual doesn't say anything that helps. So, it's off to Circuit City, now!

rmcdonough

12-09-07, 07:25 PM

Is anyone else having problems with 25-1, my picture keeps breaking up.

HailScroob

12-10-07, 08:07 AM

Is anyone else having problems with 25-1, my picture keeps breaking up.

Always.

Satsince1978

12-10-07, 09:43 PM

CH 69.1 has "White Christmas" on right now. It just had a pop up on the bottom of the screen that said "Also available in HD" It is SD right now so how do I get it in HD???

hvs10trk

12-11-07, 06:12 AM

CH 69.1 has "White Christmas" on right now. It just had a pop up on the bottom of the screen that said "Also available in HD" It is SD right now so how do I get it in HD???

Currently HD is not available on WMYS-LD. There just isn't enough bandwidth to accomidate a 3rd HD channel. :(

morphinapg

12-13-07, 10:34 PM

so what happened with Smallville tonight on CW? First it was all chopping up weird and then it was the SD feed. Does anybody know if tonights episode will be rebroadcasted in HD? I've been archiving all the episodes so far in HD and would like to have this one as well.

hvs10trk

12-14-07, 10:17 AM

so what happened with Smallville tonight on CW? First it was all chopping up weird and then it was the SD feed.
Looks like our HD receiver had an audio hiccup. The switch to SD was our operator switching to CW backup (SD unfortunately) Does anybody know if tonights episode will be rebroadcasted in HD? I've been archiving all the episodes so far in HD and would like to have this one as well.
Only if CW runs it as a re-run. We don't have any CW network programming locally.

joshMV4

12-14-07, 02:17 PM

justalurker

12-14-07, 03:40 PM

The Dish receiver outputs HDMI, Component, Composite AV and analog RF.
It has an OTA tuner capable of picking up DIGITAL stations direct from the broadcasters.
Most analog locals can be received via satellite.

janko

12-14-07, 06:44 PM

Thinking of getting Dish network. They have a deal with AT&T dsl internet that is finally available in my area (South Bend border of the state line, near Niles, MI.)

If I get the Dish network, will I get any digital television over QAM without paying for any of their HD/digital packages? I have a HDTV with both ATSC and QAM tuners. I know they would give me a Dish receiver.

I guess another way of asking is, "Does the dish receiver only output analog signals?"

Currently, I have comcast basic cable ($15 a month), and do get unscrambled QAM at no extra charge.

I just talked with a Dish/DTV rep at the mall today. Dish receivers output digital signals, but it's my understanding that your tv's QAM tuner only works with cable. You'd have to pay the extra $20/month to get Dish HD programming.

I have a QAM question for you though. I just got a new tv that has a QAM tuner. What digital or HD channels are you able to get through it from Comcast?

Thanks!

hvs10trk

12-14-07, 10:54 PM

I just talked with a Dish/DTV rep at the mall today. Dish receivers output digital signals, but it's my understanding that your tv's QAM tuner only works with cable. You'd have to pay the extra $20/month to get Dish HD programming.

I have a QAM question for you though. I just got a new tv that has a QAM tuner. What digital or HD channels are you able to get through it from Comcast?

Thanks!

You are correct. QAM is a cable only technology. Satellite use their own proprietary modulation. If the cable system carries the OTA DTV signal then its available "in the clear" for a QAM tuner. You'll find more but they're probably encrypted or missing audio.

Phoenixfury

12-16-07, 06:49 PM

Although the new Weigel digital broadcast channels are now on Zap2It's site, I still can't get them on my Vista Mediacenter. I even went to the extreme of unhooking the cable box from the PC and just tried to force it to pick up OTA only.. I discovered Zap2It doesn't seem to be forwarding the new channels to Microsoft at all since the new data didn't even come up for the new channels. In fact the only way I can even get the new channels is if I manually put them in with their actual physical frequency. So this leaves me up (expletive) creek without a paddle... So what I'm wondering is how on earth to get this issue resolved. Do I need to contact Weigel, Tribune Media Services (AKA Zap2It), or Microsoft? I don't want to just keep using the digital cable listings because as I've posted before that doesn't work well since I have to keep re-assigning those listings a lot.

On a positive note, I just got my sick pay back from work and used that to get myself a new Vizeo VW37L 37" HDTV. Man I love that thing! However it comes with only one really odd problem which I don't think is the fault of the TV at all. The problem is 25.1 looks scrambled! This is odd because the TV is on the same outdoor antenna that the Vista Media Center is on. Heck it even picks up 57 better than my Mediacenter. I pick up 25 on analog perfectly, but 25.1 is just a green scrambled mess that looks similar to how cable scrambles anolog premium channels except it's a green flash. Audio works fine and you can see the picture through all that mess, but it looks real bad. This is puzzling to me because Mediacenter plays back 25.1 perfectly fine. Otherwise all of the other channels play perfectly fine. One final note, the guide data comes through perfectly on all of the digital channels, even on the scrambled 25.1. Is it possible my tv isn't using the proper frequency for 25.1? if so I can't imagine how I can force it to use the proper fequency since there's no way to add it manually like Mediacenter..

hvs10trk

12-16-07, 07:53 PM

I would try Zap2It and Microsoft. I'm not too familar with them, but we're pumping out our data ok. As far as 25.1 being a scrambled mess, what town are you in? PM me if you don't want to post it publicly

Phoenixfury

12-16-07, 07:59 PM

deadeyehd

12-16-07, 08:52 PM

I have no problem posting where I'm from. I live in Elkhart near the corner of Nappanee street and Mishawaka road.

I'll try Zap2It first, I don't know how to contact Microsoft on this so hopefully I can get Zap2It to do this as well. I know all of the data is there as well since I see it on the Zap2It site directly. I just need to get it into my Mediacenter is all.

Have you looked at the following MS KB article? It might apply to your situation (I had to leave off the http:// because of board rules :()...

support.microsoft.com/kb/938927

Phoenixfury

12-16-07, 09:04 PM

Thankyou, I'll give this a try, but only if the SP1 RC1 (which I just now finally got to install) fails to fix this. It looks from the article that SP1 would likely have this fix in it already. However since I already had two failed attempts to install and finally got it to install the 3rd time, there's a good chance all could go to H E double hockey stick in a hand basket. LOL So lets say it's time for me to reboot and pray! I'd still like the actual broadcast data though! However if SP1 fixes this I'll be happier, but man it would be nice to get 69.1's data too.

I'm also hoping that 25.1's weird scrambling problem is a minor problem that can be fixed. I have my fingers crossed on this one since 25 is my favorite of the 3 new channels. :)

--------------------------------------------------------------

My pc survived the reboot, so it looks like the failed attempts didn't do anything bad.. (at least that I know of.) Mediacenter seems to be a bit more responsive. Whether or not if SP1 RC1 will fix my guide data loss remains to be scene. This service pack should contain the hotfix mentioned in Deadyehd's post. If it holds, then at least I'll be able to retain the guide data for 25.1 and 57.1 which is great. 69 isn't a major loss to me although I'd like to know what's on it from time to time. At least I can get 69's guide data from my TV if I need to and just set up recordings manually.

Does anyone else notice that Microsoft / Zap2It still shows WCWW-DT as WMWB-DT in Mediacenter for the local Comcast digital listings?

Phoenixfury

12-18-07, 01:56 PM

When I got home last night, I discovered Vista Mediacenter did not retain the guide listings after applying SP1 RC1. I thought for sure the service pack would include the fix. I'll give DeadeyeHD's solution a try when I get home from work tonight.

Satsince1978

12-19-07, 11:01 AM

I have noticed that the DIGITAL stations sometimes are not watchable because of the picture being scrambled. My rock steady stations are 22.1, 22.2, 22.3, and 69.1 !
16.1 and 25.1 are 90% steady and the others come and go! 28.1 and 57.1 are mostly unwatchable. This is on two different TV's with built in tuners. My UHF antenna is outside and up about 30 feet and over 20 years old. I live two miles west of the airport off Edison road. Are these stations going to improve by next year when the analog is cut off???? Will a newer UHF antenna help?

lmacmil

12-20-07, 09:57 AM

I don't watch much OTA but 22.1 and that cuts in and out so often, it doesn't get watched much either. I am just west of UP Mall in a wooded subdivision with a 2nd story roof antenna. It's much worse some days than others.

mmain00

12-20-07, 11:55 AM

I am at the Lake of the Woods West of Bremen,

16.1, 16.2, 22.1, 22.2, 22.3, 34.1, 34.2 I have perfectly all the time.
25.1, 46.1, 46.2 most of the time (usually 30% reception)
28.1 between 10% & 20% reception, so i get cut-outs on rainy/snowy/cloudy days.
i have yet to pick up 57.1

i have a Channel master roof antenna on a second story house, i have 2 oak trees to the north in my neighbors yard & then miles of open fields

hvs10trk

12-20-07, 01:24 PM

mmain00

12-20-07, 01:41 PM

57 analog is fuzzy, but is still color & fairly watchable, 25 analog is the same way

69.1 never have gotten, from what i can tell, is a low-power directional signal pointing the wrong direction

dooner

12-21-07, 01:50 AM

I think 25.1 should not have its license renewed. They are jamming channels 26.1, 26.2 and 26.3 out of Chicago as these fools are using the same frequency. I had been receiving HD from Chicago just fine until 25.1 started. THere go the White Sox and Bulls games in HD.

In addition when HD 25, 57 and 69 went on the air their inability to transmit a proper guide cause my tuner to identify each as a "hidden channel". Once identified as such I could not view that channel, unless I cleared the store channels and rescanned. Apparently most tuners just couldn't autodetect the channels. This meant each time I had the rotor turned to SB and made the mistaken of selecting 26 from Chicago the tuner detected 25 said it was hidden and boom no more 26 until a rescan. Similar problems occured with 57 and 69 which are on the same channels as two staions in Wisconsin.

I complained about the guide and the reception but they said they had NO complaints. I thought they were LIARS and then I found this forum. All kinds of complaints -definitely LIARS. With the guide more or less fixed I no longer get the "hidden channel" display, however 25 (strength, reaimed???) and 26 now jam each other. I am roughly in a line between the two. Now I can't fault them for using the Wisconsin channels but 27???? Like 75 miles apart!!!

How did these yahoos get the FCC to approve this mess?????

justalurker

12-21-07, 03:17 AM

dooner

12-21-07, 01:19 PM

You certainly were not talking to the right people. Station representatives post in this thread and have been truthful and helpful in working with all the problems.

The Chicago station and the South Bend station are owned by the same company. They agreed to allow each station interfere with the other to a certain acceptable to the FCC extent. That's why the FCC approved the stations.

What is your location (city - major intersection nearby)? It is easier to track down problems when all the info is available.

I emailed them through their web site. I have since read this thread and maybe (?) the reps have been turthful here. However I went through their OFFICIAL site before I found this forum and was LIED to.

I also understand that the FCC OKed to mess and that the both stations are owned by the same company, but why is it acceptable to render channel 27 unusable? In this thread their rep acknowledges that using 27 was not the best idea - duh. OK sometimes I can get 26 and/or 25 more often 25, but I used to get 26 perfectly and when 25 first started I could get both just fine (rotor) but now they interfer so badly I don't even bother.

It seems like there must be a great many people in the same boat in northwestern IN and Berrien county MI between stations. I live in Saint Joseph, on the lake.

Further I have been veiwing HD OTA for a long time, having seen many stations startup in IN, MI, IL and WI. And I can say that this triumvirate of stations are the only ones I receive that had broadcast such a messed up guide rendering tuners unable to autodetect or in my case have my receiver block reception as a "hidden channel". The fact that they LIED to me only compounds their incompetence.

I am using a CM4228, perhaps a more directional antenna would allow me to isolate the signals. I just wish they would redirect 25's signal or reduce power so I could see both 25 and 26 as I was able to do when they first started. Now that the guide issue, one I was told did not exist seems to be resolved it would not be a problem. Funny if it was a non-issue why did they spend money to fix what was a non-issue? But if I can only get one 26 is far better with 3 channels White Sox + Bulls. 25 pretty much just duplicates 9 primetime.

Satsince1978

12-21-07, 01:25 PM

hvs10trk

12-21-07, 02:25 PM

It seems like there must be a great many people in the same boat in northwestern IN and Berrien county MI between stations. I live in Saint Joseph, on the lake. Believe me there are!

Further I have been veiwing HD OTA for a long time, having seen many stations startup in IN, MI, IL and WI. And I can say that this triumvirate of stations are the only ones I receive that had broadcast such a messed up guide rendering tuners unable to autodetect or in my case have my receiver block reception as a "hidden channel". The fact that they LIED to me only compounds their incompetence. I don't know what you have been lied to about but our Guide data has been rock solid from day one. We, quite extensively, analyzed all of our data going out and everything we transmit exceeds minimum specs. Now if you are referring to those who utilize other services such as TIVO or D* and E* then that was totally out of our hands. We can only show those companies the door, they have to open it.

I am using a CM4228, perhaps a more directional antenna would allow me to isolate the signals. I just wish they would redirect 25's signal or reduce power so I could see both 25 and 26 as I was able to do when they first started. Now that the guide issue, one I was told did not exist seems to be resolved it would not be a problem. Funny if it was a non-issue why did they spend money to fix what was a non-issue? But if I can only get one 26 is far better with 3 channels White Sox + Bulls. 25 pretty much just duplicates 9 primetime. I would try a more directional antenna. Specifically one that has a pretty big null on the back third of the pie.

hvs10trk

12-21-07, 02:46 PM

"You certainly were not talking to the right people. Station representatives post in this thread and have been truthful and helpful in working with all the problems."
If they do listen and post then here is my question!
I can watch EVERYONES analog signal but Digital comes and goes. What can you or I do before the 2009 analog deadline to improve the signal so it can be watched 100% of the time when the cutoff comes??

We DO listen and post. :) What specific stations are you having problems with? What exactly are you experiencing? In general you should not be having any problems with our Digitals from your house. You may from time to time have interferrence between WCIU-DT (Chicago) and WCWW-DT (South Bend) as indicated in the posts above but since you're pretty close to the towers its highly unlikely. If you want to check over your gear, check the wiring (should be RG-6 or better not RG-59), if you have an amp (which you don't need to pick up South Bend) try taking it out of line and see if your signal gets better/worse, check your aiming (again you're close enough to probably use rabbit ears but hey, RF is a crazy technolgy).

Satsince1978

12-21-07, 04:46 PM

Today all of 22's digital signals are solid.
16.1 is spotty with pixalation (sp)
25.1 is not watchable. (pix)
28.1 is in and out. (pix)
34.1 is 90 % solid. (pix) 34 was analog, digital is not coming in!
57.1 is in and out. Pix)
69.1 is in here rock solid!
Is digital that much harder to get a good solid picture than analog?
Then again analog we would watch with a lot of snow in the picture.
RG-6 cable with current antenna up 30 feet. Older 4 bay UHF antenna.
Come some nicer warm weather I am going to put up a new Winegard HD-4400 UHF antenna.
My strongest digital off my VHF/UHF antenna from Chicago are 11, 9, 7, 5, 2, 26, 38, 44, 51, etc. In other words I get them all super from Chicago! (Figure that!)
I will advise you all when I put the new antenna up as I feel that will help a lot!
THANKS,
Jim

hvs10trk

12-21-07, 05:23 PM

Today all of 22's digital signals are solid.
16.1 is spotty with pixalation (sp)
25.1 is not watchable. (pix)
28.1 is in and out. (pix)
34.1 is 90 % solid. (pix)
57.1 is in and out. Pix)
69.1 is in here rock solid!
Is digital that much harder to get a good solid picture than analog?
Then again analog we would watch with a lot of snow in the picture.
RG-6 cable with current antenna up 30 feet. Older 4 bay UHF antenna.
Come some nicer warm weather I am going to put up a new Winegard HD-4400 UHF antenna.
My strongest digital off my VHF/UHF antenna from Chicago are 11, 9, 7, 5, 2, 26, 38, 44, 51, etc. In other words I get them all super from Chicago! (Figure that!)
I will advise you all when I put the new antenna up as I feel that will help a lot!
THANKS,
Jim
Digital isnt necessarly harder to receive. The digital world however isn't a perfected technology yet. We're still writing the books.

The snowy analog and patchy 16.1 would indicate maybe a bad cable/antenna. Their signal is a beacon! Let us know how the new install goes. Have a good holiday! :)

dooner

12-21-07, 07:36 PM

Believe me there are!
I don't know what you have been lied to about but our Guide data has been rock solid from day one. We, quite extensively, analyzed all of our data going out and everything we transmit exceeds minimum specs. Now if you are referring to those who utilize other services such as TIVO or D* and E* then that was totally out of our hands. We can only show those companies the door, they have to open it.
I would try a more directional antenna. Specifically one that has a pretty big null on the back third of the pie.

I'm talking OTA, when your guide only listed the channel number and no program content, one of my tuner consistently detected 25, 57 and 69 as "hidden channels". My other tuners would not auto detect them as I see others had (past tense). NOTE of the up to the 120 channels (including subs) I receive in the summer these are the ONLY one which produced the "hidden channel". I will admit that since the guide has been expanded to include program info etc I no longer have a problem with "hidden Channels". Again 120 channels and yours were the ONLY ones fooling my tuner into thinking the were "hidden" outside of the NCAA channels in WI which meant to be "hidden".

Yes I suppose I could buy and install another antenna but of all the channels I receive it is only 25.1 and 26.1,26.2 and 26.3 from Chicago I can not distinguish. The stations are too close, nearly in a line and have too much strength in my area. THis is not a problem with 69 and 57 with their GB counter parts. Why render 27 unusable in my area - pick another frequency!!!!

HOW ABOUT MOVING 25.1 TO FREQUENCY 61 OR ARE YOU WORRIED YOU WILL INTERFERING WITH CLEVELAND???

hvs10trk

12-22-07, 08:31 PM

I'm talking OTA, when your guide only listed the channel number and no program content, one of my tuner consistently detected 25, 57 and 69 as "hidden channels". My other tuners would not auto detect them as I see others had (past tense). NOTE of the up to the 120 channels (including subs) I receive in the summer these are the ONLY one which produced the "hidden channel". I will admit that since the guide has been expanded to include program info etc I no longer have a problem with "hidden Channels". Again 120 channels and yours were the ONLY ones fooling my tuner into thinking the were "hidden" outside of the NCAA channels in WI which meant to be "hidden".

Yes I suppose I could buy and install another antenna but of all the channels I receive it is only 25.1 and 26.1,26.2 and 26.3 from Chicago I can not distinguish. The stations are too close, nearly in a line and have too much strength in my area. THis is not a problem with 69 and 57 with their GB counter parts. Why render 27 unusable in my area - pick another frequency!!!!

HOW ABOUT MOVING 25.1 TO FREQUENCY 61 OR ARE YOU WORRIED YOU WILL INTERFERING WITH CLEVELAND???

61 is an out-of-core frequency and will no longer exist as of Feb 17, 2009.

dooner

12-23-07, 01:41 AM

61 is an out-of-core frequency and will no longer exist as of Feb 17, 2009.

Obviously, but it can be used NOW! Just like South Bend 28 is on 58, Chicago 7 is on 52 and Aurora 60 is on 59 NOW, to name but a few, yes they will have to change but they are NOT jamming a nearby station NOW.

I guess these stations actually cared about serving the consumer. These channels elected to do the right thing and broadcast on a clear channel. Maybe it comes down the the character of managment of the station.

Why not do the right thing and clean up the mess you started when you began broadcasting??

hvs10trk

12-23-07, 08:15 AM

Obviously, but it can be used NOW! Just like South Bend 28 is on 58, Chicago 7 is on 52 and Aurora 60 is on 59 NOW, to name but a few, yes they will have to change but they are NOT jamming a nearby station NOW.

I guess these stations actually cared about serving the consumer. These channels elected to do the right thing and broadcast on a clear channel. Maybe it comes down the the character of managment of the station.

Why not do the right thing and clean up the mess you started when you began broadcasting??

The FCC would never grant a CP for a station out of core at the point. We'll see what happens when we get closer to 2009.

dooner

12-23-07, 11:01 PM

The FCC would never grant a CP for a station out of core at the point. We'll see what happens when we get closer to 2009.

So now it’s the FCC fault! Bull! This problem was SOLELY created by Weigel Broadcasting when it made a conscious decision to harm thousands of viewers by broadcasting two signals on the same frequency. If you can't change frequencies then the only responsible thing to do is STOP broadcasting the second signal on 27!!!!!!!

Further I see you are far from forth coming in your answers. In response to problems with 25.1 you answered, "Ahhhh, that interference. We're working on it." What you failed to mention is that your employer(?), Weigel Broadcasting, is the source of the inference.

Working hard on it, are we - again bull!! Weigel Broadcasting worked hard to cause the interference when they built transmitter for 25.1.

Even better by another employee(?)Posted by tvmicrowave2002

As for 25.1 having signal issues, we believe we have found the problem. It is a signal other than ours that is within the channel 27 spectrum. Channel 27 is the physical RF channel for digital 25.1. I hope to work with the source of interference over the next week or so and that should make 25.1 just as strong as 57.1.

Believe you have found the problem have you, the unbelievable arrogance, you ARE the problem.

Phoenixfury

12-23-07, 11:52 PM

dooner

12-24-07, 01:07 AM

I've been fallowing this thread for some time now and can tell you that I believe these guy's are doing the the best they can within the confines of what they are allowed to do. I recall mention in this thread that they get the short end of the stick because the NAB doesn't like low powered stations. They pretty much have to accept what they are given. There, you just heard this from someone thats not on Weigel's or any other broadcasters payroll.

Perhaps you are right, but consider the possibility that the NAB does like LPTV because of this kind of problem. If 26 (rf 27) Chicago were not owned by Weigel (LPTV) they would have never agreed to the being interfered with by 25.1. Then 25.1 would not be on rf 27 and I and many others would still be receiving 26.1, 26.2 and 26.3 without interference.

hvs10trk

12-24-07, 09:33 AM

Perhaps you are right, but consider the possibility that the NAB does like LPTV because of this kind of problem. If 26 (rf 27) Chicago were not owned by Weigel (LPTV) they would have never agreed to the being interfered with by 25.1. Then 25.1 would not be on rf 27 and I and many others would still be receiving 26.1, 26.2 and 26.3 without interference.Not true at all.

WIFR-DT (Rockford, IL) RF 41/WOCH-CA (Chicago) RF 41
WIFR-TV (Rockford, IL) RF 23/WWME-CA (Chicago) RF 23
WDJT-DT (Milwaukee, WI) RF 46/W52BR (Chicago) RF 46
WQRF-TV (Rockford, IL) RF 39/WWME-LD (CP)(Chicago, IL) RF 39

All are ajacent markets with same Freq's.

hvs10trk

12-24-07, 09:42 AM

So now it’s the FCC fault! Bull! This problem was SOLELY created by Weigel Broadcasting when it made a conscious decision to harm thousands of viewers by broadcasting two signals on the same frequency. If you can't change frequencies then the only responsible thing to do is STOP broadcasting the second signal on 27!!!!!!!
Didn't say it was their fault. Just explaining to you why we couldn't switch to RF 61. On that note, switching channel assignments is not as easy as changing the channel on your TV. The antenna is specific to its channel number. The exciter(s) in the transmitter are frequency specific. The TPO is granted in relation the channel. All the filtering hanging in the ceiling is channel specific.

Further I see you are far from forth coming in your answers. In response to problems with 25.1 you answered, "Ahhhh, that interference. We're working on it." What you failed to mention is that your employer(?), Weigel Broadcasting, is the source of the inference.

Working hard on it, are we - again bull!! Weigel Broadcasting worked hard to cause the interference when they built transmitter for 25.1.

Even better by another employee(?)Posted by tvmicrowave2002

As for 25.1 having signal issues, we believe we have found the problem. It is a signal other than ours that is within the channel 27 spectrum. Channel 27 is the physical RF channel for digital 25.1. I hope to work with the source of interference over the next week or so and that should make 25.1 just as strong as 57.1.
This has nothing in common with the problems you are having. This was another source of interference and was corrected at the NON Weigel source.

Believe you have found the problem have you, the unbelievable arrogance, you ARE the problem.
Your demeanor is uncalled for. Please play nicer.

Phoenixfury

12-24-07, 10:23 AM

Sorry if you guys addressed this already, but I may have somehow missed the reply if there ever was one. I'm just wondering how it is my new HDTV (a 37" Vizio) won't properly display 25.1 despite that my Windows Mediacenter can play it back perfectly. The problem is 25.1 appears like a scrambled analog cable channel except it flashes green and I can see a image behind the whole mess. My Mediacenter is hooked to the same outdoor antenna and it doesn't have a problem picking up 25.1 at all. However I had to put the frequency in manually into mediacenter where with the TV I can only scan to enter the local DT's. I'm in Elkhart and I live near the corner of Nappanee Street and Mishawaka Road.

I almost forgot to mention my TV has no problem pulling in 25.1's OTA guide data, it just can't display the channel properly. The only thing I could think of was trying to remove the Mediacenter from the antenna to see if that improved my situation.. It does not make any difference so I put my Mediacenter back in the loop. The only other thing I can think of that may be worth mentioning is I have a 3 way splitter coming off the antenna, two connections to the Mediacenter PC for the two digital tuners, and one to the TV.

hvs10trk

12-24-07, 11:28 AM

Satsince1978

12-24-07, 11:30 AM

Hey Weigel Broadcasting crew!
Thanks for all the inside info that you folks have been giving us for months! It is very interesting to hear that there is more to getting on the air than just throwing a big switch!
Whenever I have a question it gets answered quickly and with a good answer!

Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS & A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Jim

dooner

12-24-07, 11:53 AM

tvmicrowave2002

12-24-07, 01:21 PM

Obviously, but it can be used NOW! Just like South Bend 28 is on 58, Chicago 7 is on 52 and Aurora 60 is on 59 NOW, to name but a few, yes they will have to change but they are NOT jamming a nearby station NOW.

I guess these stations actually cared about serving the consumer. These channels elected to do the right thing and broadcast on a clear channel. Maybe it comes down the the character of managment of the station.

Why not do the right thing and clean up the mess you started when you began broadcasting??

Dooner, I'm sure you've been scolded many times in life about how your attitude keeps you from going futher in life so I won't go off on that point here...

LP and CA stations were not allowed to pick frequencies out of core during the LP-DTV auction window in the 2006 window.

hvs10trk

12-24-07, 02:03 PM

dooner

12-24-07, 02:09 PM

Again I ask did you apply too late?? I noticed that you state in 2006 you could not have picked an out-of-core channel. Because based on the following from the FCC in 2004 you could at least at sometime have applied for an out-of-core channel. Is this another way of skirting the blame. I maintain that it WAS a conscious decison to interfere with 26 citing the letter from 26 as proof. As for my attitude when someone creates a problem then does nothing to adrress it, basically saying thats the way it is, you are right I have very little respect for them. I find the vast majority of people and businesses truly try to do the right thing. If you made an honest mistake no problem but you knew you would interfere with 26. You chose to do it anyway what does that say for you attitude?

Highlights of spectrum usage for digital LPTV and TV translator stations include:

VHF channels 2-13, inclusive — available for digital LPTV and TV translator operations;
UHF channels 14-51 with the exception of channel 37 — available for digital LPTV and TV translator operations;
UHF channels 52-69 available for digital LPTV and TV translator operations on a limited basis;
Existing LPTV and TV translators stations on UHF channels 52-69 may flash-cut to digital operations;
UHF channels 52-59 for companion digital channels is limited to stations that can certify the unavailability of in-core channels (2-51);
UHF channels 60-69 for companion channels is prohibited;
UHF channel 52-69 applicants must notify public safety and commercial wireless licensees before filing applications;
Flash-cutters on UHF channels 63, 64, 68 and 69 must first coordinate with regional and state entities representing public safety licensees.

For more information, visit www.fcc.gov.

Mike Lang

12-24-07, 02:21 PM

dooner, take this to PM or contact the company directly. This is not the place for what you're doing.

sebenste

12-24-07, 02:52 PM

[QUOTE=hvs10trk;12576323]Not true at all.
QUOTE]

Perhaps, we can never know what a competitor would have agreed to. However it is certainly TRUE 26 was clear and steady in my area until 25 started broadcasting on rf 27. 25's signal is just too strong in my area. I don't know why so many closer to SB have so much trouble receiving it, here it jams 26.

Why did you "have" to pick rf 27? Did you apply to late? Why were some willing (7,28, and 60) to apply for what amounts to a temporary channel so they could broadcast on a clear channel, while 25 decided interfere with 26?

Dooner,

As a disclaimer and full disclosure...I don't work for Weigel. I do know some engineers there, but believe me, if they need to be told something that's bad with their signal, I've told them (when WCIU-DT was at low power, I was not a happy camper). So let me say this...

First...they didn't apply too late. They applied early...as early as they could! They knew, along with everyone else, that channel 52 and above will be taken away and that the FCC explicitly stated they would not approve ANY low-power application for anything above channel 51. And, they applied THE MOMENT the FCC said they could, during the initial low-power DTV FCC "auction". Look it up on the FCC site. And they're one of the first group of low-power DTV stations to sign on in the U.S. In fact, Weigel has signed on LPDTV's in South Bend and Rockford, when most have yet to do so. We're about to get one from them in Chicago on channel 39.

Second...WCIU-DT never has, and never will, serve the South Bend market. It is a Chicago station. LaPorte, Starke, Marshall, Kosciusko, etc is in South Bend, IN's DMA as is everything in southwest Michigan and northern Indiana EXCEPT for Lake and Porter, and Jasper and Newton counties, and those in the Fort Wayne market. If you get Chicago stations from there, it is a bonus, not a right to get.

Third...as HVS stated, the FCC allowed this station to sign on. If you don't like it, complain to the FCC, but they'll see your circumstance and I guarantee you they'll say "sorry, you don't have a legitimate complaint". Now, you do have a point in that when the analogs shut off in 2009, there will be a lot more spectrum for channels to go to. I'm not saying 25 will or will not permanently stay where it is, but yes, 25 did the best they could do without interfering in other markets. I looked at it and given how tight everything is east of the Mississippi with analog full power and low-power stations, and digital full power and now low-power stations, they did it the best they could.

In light of all of this, your valid options are to:

1. Get a more directional antenna. The ChannelMaster 4228 is a great long-range antenna; I have two. But if you have two stations on nearby frequencies, the Antennas Direct XG-91 trumps it for directional beamwidth. 5-10 degrees off on aiming at a weak station, and you won't get it. It's that good. If 27 is not in your line of sight, this antenna will do the trick.

2. Move closer to Chicago.

And as for the guide data...low-power DTV's are not required to put out dynamic PSIP or guide data. The issues you were having were outside of WCIU's control, and they mounted a significant campaign on their end to have the other companies having the problem fix it, which they were slow to do. Read the last several pages and see where the problem was. It wasn't WCIU.

When they sign on 39 in Chicago, I'll have to point my antenna to Rockford to get the 39 there. That sort of thing is happening all over the place, in every market, due to the extremely crowded dial east of the Mississippi River. Channel 51 in Rockford, not owned by Weigel, interferes some with my channel 50 digital in Chicago. Again, though, I am not in their primary signal contour, so that is my problem alone, not the Rockford or Chicago station. And I have adjusted for that with a second antenna, which solved the problem.

Finally, please check the attitude at the door. Your accusation of "lies" are not only false, but your assertions of Channel 52 not interfering with anything are also not true (they interfere with 52 in the Milwaukee market, and vice versa), as well as them not working hard to fix problems, and causing them, other than your misconceived notion you have a right to pick up WCIU from where you are. That is slander, and before you get yourself into serious trouble, please stop.

SteveMSU

12-24-07, 10:01 PM

Anybody know where I can get a list of QAM channel numbers for Comcast up in Stevensville, MI??? Of the main 4 locals, I'm only able to find ABC. Not sure why at least NBC isn't shown, let alone the others. Thanks for any help.

Phoenixfury

12-25-07, 01:50 AM

hvs10trk

12-25-07, 07:00 AM

Merry Christmas!

Hvs, I unfortunatly can't take the splitter out as the antenna wire isn't long enough to reach the Vizio. However there's still a couple of things I can try. What I haven't done is turning my computer off. Although that's unlikely the problem, it wouldnt hurt to rule it out as a source of interference. The other thing I could try is to just simply replace the coax cable between the splitter and the tv. I'll see if I can find a shorter piece that will reach.

If you guy's have any other ideas I'd like to hear about them. I'll also post back if I resolve my tuning issue. I also want to say keep up the good work! I greatly apreciate your efforts!
You can take the splitter out and barrel the 2 ends together. If the Vizio is happy you could try a new splitter and put the Vizio on the 3.5db tap instead of the 7db tap. You could also try a powered amp (closer to the antenna the better) but keep in mind any noise in your line also gets amplified. :eek:

justalurker

12-25-07, 02:26 PM

topp

12-25-07, 07:39 PM

sebenste

12-25-07, 10:00 PM

Thanks sebenste for the technical approach ... hopefully your words are accepted.

Some reference maps for those who are interested:
WCIU-DT Current (15.1 kW at 510m HAAT - Temporary) map (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS620965.html)
WCIU-DT Planned (160 kW at 510 HAAT) map (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT619075.html)
WCWW-LP (15 kW at 292m) map (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1209538.html)

February 2009 should be interesting ... getting WCIU analog off of 26 may or may not help. I assume WSJV will be moving their digital signal to 28 (although I can't find a clear filing approving that - the first round election is marked disapproved and the first round conflict decision doesn't demonstrate how interference will be avoided).

I'm hoping that even though the playground is getting smaller (less channels) that we will be able to get more clear digital channels on the air when the analogs go away. Time will tell.

Hey Lurker (Lurker? 305 posts? Really? :D),

Unfortunately the FCC database isn't update quick enough. WCIU is at 160 kw. But no, getting 26 off analog won't help anyone in South Bend, but will help Madison, WI as their digital 26 will no longer get interference from Chicago! Yes, WSJV will be moving to 28, at a slightly less power to protect WTMJ-DT in Milwaukee. They'll have an obvious weaker signal to the northwest into southwest Michigan when that happens. (Note to Berrien and Cass county residents: make sure you have a good antenna in 2009 or you could lose WSJV). That having been said...you bet it will be easier to get digitals. But not in all cases. Analog *low power* signals are not required to shut down, only the full power ones. But in most cases, this will be a moot point,
as everyone will be digital, or on cable, and not miss the analogs. I suspect they will quickly shut down too.

Phoenixfury

12-26-07, 01:26 AM

SteveMSU

12-26-07, 08:06 AM

SteveMSU,

I am in Baroda, so we should have the same. I lost my ABC a few weeks ago and don't know why, it was 57.1 (I think) and now it doesn't show up. Can you tell me what channel yours is coming in on? But here is what I get.

NBC: 16.1
CBS: 22.1
FOX: 28.2
PBS: 34.2

Later,
Topp

Weird. I found ABC at something like 80-4 or something like that. I did the digital scan and it found 10 digital channels including the CW, ABC, and then a bunch of random regular digital (non-HD) channels. The channel numbers you have sound like the actual HD OTA channel numbers rather than the Comcast QAM numbers.

hvs10trk

12-26-07, 08:43 AM

Hvs, I checked my antenna wire and found it was indeed long enough to reach the Vizio. I hooked the antenna directly and left my pc off. There was no change in the results unfortunatly. I agree now that my Vizio just can't deal with 25.1. I'll give Vizio tech support a call in the morning.

Too bad you dont have (or know anybody with) a spectrum analyzer. That would show you signal levels coming in and give you an idea if your dancing on the edge or not. Now there's no magical number as far as signal levels go. I mean -30 db is better than say -55db but every tuner is different as far as when it gives up on the signal.

topp

12-26-07, 08:46 AM

Yea, those are the HD channels I pull through my Comcast cable, for free, using my QAM tuner. If I use my antenna, I get quite a few more. I do see some other's that are not HD, but digital through Comcast, but I never watch them. Are you looking for the non HD channels?

Later,
Topp

SteveMSU

12-26-07, 09:14 AM

I'm looking just for the HD locals. It's just a bedroom TV for my folks and they like watching the Today show on NBC in the morning and a few random network shows. I'll have to play with it some more next time I'm home.

Phoenixfury

12-26-07, 01:59 PM

Hvs, I called Vizio this morning and got the standard "it's not us it's them" answer. I can't say I wasn't expecting that for an answer. I scanned the tv upstairs using my indoor antenna and was eventually able to get 25.1. It took several tries and adjustments before I could even get 25.1 to even come in but I did get it. This prooves to me it's likely the tuner is not getting enough of a usable signal. I never did get around to readjusting the outdoor antenna, so hopefully that might get the job done.

In hindsight I forgot to check the signal stength on the upstairs tv. Unfortunatly the Vizio doesn't have this indicator. I did put the indoor antenna between my tv and outdoor antenna to use it's amp in hopes that would help boost the signal. That doesn't help 25.1 at all but 57.1 does come in rock solid this way. My only other theory is that maybe my tuner might be too good and may be trying to pull in the chicago station as well. Could that even be possible?

hvs10trk

12-26-07, 03:36 PM

Phoenixfury

12-26-07, 06:31 PM

If theres good tropo going on its possible. 25.1 should be the stronger signal and thats what your tuner should lock to.

Ok here's the latest update on my situation. I'm putting the QAM tuner in my tv to the test by hooking the cable tv (Comcast) to it. I am able to pick up all of the local digital channels including the HD ones this way.. However I found 25.1 at 80-3 and 57.1 at 80-4.. Unfortunately I get exactly the same unpleasant result even through Comcast for 25.1. I did find the digital broadcast of 25's analog channel on another channel which was fine, but this isn't relevant to me. All of the other channels it did pick up as digital work perfectly fine, just 25's HD channel refuses to work on my tv whether it be OTA broadcast or cable.. I am truely puzzled. Looks like I'll have to give Vizio tech support a call in the morning again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found an interesting result when I did a scan on cable using my computer's digital tuners.. 25.1 comes up on 80.19 where the TV's tuner finds it at 80-3. I don't know if that means anything, but I thought it might be worth posting. The computer tuners (AverTV A180's) have no problem decoding 25.1.

Ralph43

12-27-07, 07:29 PM

Just for your info, I live near 6-span bridge in Elkhart and just put a cheap Dynex 20" TV in the bedroom and it is picking up all the local digitals, including 25-1 57-1 69-1 and they really look good. I have a small antenna installed on the second story by a small outfit in Niles, Mi. They must have done a good job, because I have had a good signal for about 4 years.

hvs10trk

12-28-07, 08:49 AM

Ok here's the latest update on my situation. I'm putting the QAM tuner in my tv to the test by hooking the cable tv (Comcast) to it. I am able to pick up all of the local digital channels including the HD ones this way.. However I found 25.1 at 80-3 and 57.1 at 80-4.. Unfortunately I get exactly the same unpleasant result even through Comcast for 25.1. I did find the digital broadcast of 25's analog channel on another channel which was fine, but this isn't relevant to me. All of the other channels it did pick up as digital work perfectly fine, just 25's HD channel refuses to work on my tv whether it be OTA broadcast or cable.. I am truely puzzled. Looks like I'll have to give Vizio tech support a call in the morning again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found an interesting result when I did a scan on cable using my computer's digital tuners.. 25.1 comes up on 80.19 where the TV's tuner finds it at 80-3. I don't know if that means anything, but I thought it might be worth posting. The computer tuners (AverTV A180's) have no problem decoding 25.1.
I believe comcast just passes the signal through. Apparently there's something in our 25.1 signal that your tuner doesnt like.

hvs10trk

12-28-07, 08:50 AM

Phoenixfury

12-28-07, 01:49 PM

I believe comcast just passes the signal through. Apparently there's something in our 25.1 signal that your tuner doesnt like.

That's what I was afraid to here.. Now the here's the million dollar question.. If I were to get my TV exchanged for the same exact model, would I experience the same exact problem again? Are other people with my model of tv going to experience the same exact problem? I feel real reluctant about packing up my TV, it wasn't the easiest thing to unpack at all... That and I already know this TV works well and I don't want to take a chance and exchange for one that might have a worse problem.. It would be a huge hassle to take this TV back only to find the replacement would do exactly the same thing... What to do, what to do!

JGTech

12-28-07, 04:41 PM

I believe comcast just passes the signal through. Apparently there's something in our 25.1 signal that your tuner doesnt like.

I think I'm in the same boat as Phoenixfury. As I posted shortly after 25.1 went on the air, the Samsung TV in my bedroom displays 25.1 with the picture pushed to the left of the screen and stretched vertically. The remainder of the screen is solid green. The set does not have a problem with any other channel. My other TV and two D* STBs do not have a problem with 25.1.

Tool2Die4

12-28-07, 06:35 PM

wow, excellent job keeping your cool guys. intelligence and patience always persevere. don't think the rest of us don't appreciate what you guys bring to the board. hopefully dooner has checked out for good.

ellundo

12-28-07, 10:17 PM

I am running the input from my OTA antenna into my two E* 722 DVR's and using the their tuners I get pretty good signal on all the locals from 16.1 to 69.1. Prior to getting the 722's the tuners in my 32" Vizio 720P and 56" Samsung 1080P DLP didn't pickup 25.1 or 57.1. I live northeast of Niles just off M51 on Maple Lane just past M-51/White St. intersection. My antenna is under my roof above my garage so it is not an optimal setup but it seems to work fairly well. When watching NFL games the Fox broadcasts consistently look better to me than the other networks.Can anyone shed any light on why that might be? The difference seems to be really striking on the 56" set.

hvs10trk

12-28-07, 10:43 PM

hvs10trk

12-28-07, 10:45 PM

I think I'm in the same boat as Phoenixfury. As I posted shortly after 25.1 went on the air, the Samsung TV in my bedroom displays 25.1 with the picture pushed to the left of the screen and stretched vertically. The remainder of the screen is solid green. The set does not have a problem with any other channel. My other TV and two D* STBs do not have a problem with 25.1.

Alrighty then. This is where it gets difficult. It sounds like theres something (probably very minute and buried) in the data stream that will "throw" some tuners off.

janko

12-28-07, 11:35 PM

Phoenixfury

12-29-07, 01:45 AM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe FOX broadcasts in a progressive format. ABC games should look a little better too since I think they're the only ones broadcasting in 720P.

You would be correct! I saw Nascar on ABC 57.1 once and man it was some of the most beautiful HD i've ever seen! I don't even watch Nascar, but I was going ga ga over that...

I've noticed WNIT 34.1 has the most beautiful 1080i in the area too.. PBS must put a lot of love into their video because most of their HD is breathtaking. I don't think it has anything to do with how the other stations are broadcasting, I'd bet you could put any of their content on most of the local 1080i stations and it would be just as breathtaking on any of those channels..

manchild31

12-29-07, 11:50 AM

That's what I was afraid to here.. Now the here's the million dollar question.. If I were to get my TV exchanged for the same exact model, would I experience the same exact problem again? Are other people with my model of tv going to experience the same exact problem? I feel real reluctant about packing up my TV, it wasn't the easiest thing to unpack at all... That and I already know this TV works well and I don't want to take a chance and exchange for one that might have a worse problem.. It would be a huge hassle to take this TV back only to find the replacement would do exactly the same thing... What to do, what to do!

Which model do you have. I have a 47" LCD Vizio with no problems (I'll have to get the exact model number when i get home.)

Phoenixfury

12-29-07, 01:22 PM

Manchild, I I have the 37" VW37L which I think may be a Walmart only set. My understanding is that this is the same set as the VX37L but just just slightly stripped down from that model. The differences are very minimal I understand. For instance the VW37L doesn't have picture in picture. That's not exactly a deal breaker for me.

ellundo

12-29-07, 10:20 PM

Phoenixfury

12-29-07, 10:33 PM

My Samsung set shows 28-1 as coming in as 720P. It shows 16-1 & 22-1 as 1080I. I think I have seen this discussed somewhere before but shouldn't a 1080I signal on a 1080P tv look better than a 720P signal ? Also since there seems to be no programming available in 1080P did I waste money by getting a 1080P set? As far as I have been able to find out the only way to get a 1080P source right now is from blue-ray dvd which I do get using my PS3.

That and from an XBox 360, HD DVD, or an upscaling DVD player. What a lot of people might not realize is you can also use a PC as an source of 1080P content. My Mediacenter shows up as a 1080P source despite that I chose 720P, but hey I'm not complaining. So my opinion is unless you have bad eyes, you didn't waste your money at all. Have you watched any BluRay movies on that thing yet to compare it to DVD playback? As long as your making the proper HD connections BluRay should look breathtaking on your set.

topp

12-30-07, 12:04 AM

My Samsung set shows 28-1 as coming in as 720P. It shows 16-1 & 22-1 as 1080I. I think I have seen this discussed somewhere before but shouldn't a 1080I signal on a 1080P tv look better than a 720P signal ? Also since there seems to be no programming available in 1080P did I waste money by getting a 1080P set? As far as I have been able to find out the only way to get a 1080P source right now is from blue-ray dvd which I do get using my PS3.

Most of the time NBC (5.1/16.1) looks the worst to me. Fox's (28.1/32.1) and ABC's (7.1) look better. But PBS's (11.1/34.1) looks the best. My guess is that it is more to deal with the source material then what they are actually broadcasting at. If your Blu-Ray looks anything like my A2 HD DVD player your picture should look awesome, if not better since it is 1080P. Also, check your email.

Later,
Topp

hvs10trk

12-30-07, 07:27 AM

Phoenixfury

12-30-07, 12:29 PM

No programming available in 1080p nor is it a broadcast standard. I couldn't buy an encoder if I tried. :eek:

This kind of strays from the HDTV topic, but now I have a burning question...

Broadcasters can only broadcast up to 1080i, we know this is fact. Now many shows like Heroes are released in high def formats like HD DVD.. Since Heroes was broadcast in 1080i but is put on a format that's in 1080P will the HD DVD present it in 1080i or 1080P? Now I'd say it's a safe bet it's 1080P, but would this mean the HD DVD would look any better than it's original broadcast in 1080i?

JGTech

12-30-07, 05:32 PM

My Samsung set shows 28-1 as coming in as 720P. It shows 16-1 & 22-1 as 1080I. I think I have seen this discussed somewhere before but shouldn't a 1080I signal on a 1080P tv look better than a 720P signal ? Also since there seems to be no programming available in 1080P did I waste money by getting a 1080P set? As far as I have been able to find out the only way to get a 1080P source right now is from blue-ray dvd which I do get using my PS3.

Here is a link to an article that explains why a 1080p TV may or may not be better than a 720p set, depending on screen size and how you use your TV. There is a link in the article to a second article about 120Hz LCD TV technology that is also interesting.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6810011-1.html?tag=feat.1

Phoenixfury

12-30-07, 08:22 PM

HVS, I've been meaning to bring this up for a while.. Even on my Mediacenter PC not all is perfect with 25.1. Although it's viewable on the Mediacenter, i have noticed from time to time what appears to be quick flashes when I watch programming on that channel. I've noticed them several times when watching Smallville, but I saw one that really stuck out while watching Life I Wild tonight. About 4 minutes into Life Is Wild I saw the screen flash white. It kind of reminds me of that whole deal on Fight Club where they sneak in porn slides between the frames. You guys are sneaking porn past us are you? LOL Too bad my Mediacenter doesn't do frame by frame very well like a VCR. All I know is I do frequently see white flashes, sometimes the frequency of them seem higher than other times.. Of course only 25.1 is affected, this doesn't occur on the other channels.

Did anyone else happen to DVR Life Is Wild? If so rewatch the the 4th minute and see if you also notice the flashes. In the particular scene this happens, they are in a class room discussion "zulu".

hvs10trk

12-30-07, 11:35 PM

mdecook

12-31-07, 09:10 AM

I recently bought the Samsung 3253H and everything looked great on the set except 25.1 having the content pushed to the side with the green as you mention. I took the set back and got another to see if there was a problem with the tuner and the new one did the exact same thing. The picture was messed up OTA and QAM. I'm not sure if this is a Samsung problem or if its a problem with the signal, but I didn't want to deal with it so I ended up with a Sony and 25.1 works fine. Just thought I would comment because this may be a fairly common, but undocumented problem.

hvs10trk

12-31-07, 02:39 PM

mdecook

12-31-07, 03:54 PM

Do you think this is something that could possibly be easily fixed? I really did like my Samsung tv, but I can't justify not being able to tune all of the channels properly.

mdecook

12-31-07, 03:56 PM

I also have noticed some flashes in 25.1, could this be a testing feature or something?

hvs10trk

01-01-08, 11:54 AM

Do you think this is something that could possibly be easily fixed? I really did like my Samsung tv, but I can't justify not being able to tune all of the channels properly.

Easier said than done. We'll figure it out but it may take a little while. Sniffing out data problems can be a task!!!

hvs10trk

01-01-08, 11:54 AM

I also have noticed some flashes in 25.1, could this be a testing feature or something?

Not that I'm aware of.

Phoenixfury

01-01-08, 12:10 PM

Hvs10trk, I don't know if this is relevant to troubleshooting this problem or not, but I thought it might be worth mentioning. My PC tuners are AVerTVHD MCE A180's which can be found at this page..

http://www.aver.com/mpd/mcea180wb.html

Originally these were Mediacenter only tuners, but eventually Avermedia released a stand alone tv app software that allows it to work in XP as well. Eventually they added QAM support which only works in this app, but not in Mediacenter currently.

The reason I thought this was worth mentioning is because my MCE tuners didn't always have QAM tuning, it was later added through software.. My Vizio has QAM tuning built in right out of the box. Another thing on my Vizio specifications sheet it mentions it has..

ATSC, with 8VSB and QAM demodulation.

What the heck is 8VSB? I don't know if any of this info will help, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to give you what ever dirt I could come up with in regard to my tuners. All I know is the PC tuners work, the TV's tuner doesn't with 25.1.

I hope you have a happy new year!