Originally posted by G.B.
Dominus, look at Manual & make certain bulb is in good. this was a early problem with XBR & WE sets....

Thanks G.B. I'll check tonight.

I'd go ahead and get the service call in though. If they don't have the bulb handy then it'll add yet another day to the appointment. I'm assuming your set is under warrranty. If you find that the fix is just reseating the bulb then you can always cancel. If you can't fix it yourself at least you've started the ball rolling.

Has anyone tried using the digital audio output to their receiver or preamp? I just bought a new 7.1 receiver and made this connection, and was amazed at the sound. Really incredible for OTA broadcasts, especially movies like Harry Potter last night (the sound, not so much the movie itself!). Anyway, when you do this, you lose the "variable" audio and adjust solely with the receiver, and when using the cable antenna input (with straight SD cable feed) the digital audio will not work - still need to connect regular audio interconnects. VERY noticeable difference in sound quality between the two - just thought I would pass this on, as even having a digital audio output on a TV is quite unusual, and you'll want to take advantage of it if you can.

I plugged the fiber optical output from the XBR950 in to my STR-DA5ES DTS ES 6.1 AV Receiver first time I turned the unit on. As you would expect all those great OTA HD broadcasts that support 5.1 are absolutly terrific. Picture quality is better than (naturally), and sound is equal to, a DVD! Just as you go looking for HD programming you start to go looking for Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks in those programs which some but not all have. I just wish the factory Sony XBR remote would control the volume on my Sony amplifier, big oversight on their part. First Sony remote I've bought in 10 years that would'nt do this via a programmable code! So I have I rarely use the xbr's remote for anything except to change picture modes I use my Sony T60 DirecTivo remote to do everything else or the basic remote for the DA5ES.

It is true that if you are receiving a non-digital analog OTA or cable channel you will not hear any sound from the optical output. Kind of a big thing right now but once all the OTA stuff is fully available on digital broadcasts you likely will not even notice. Now if your cable provider mixes the two types of broadcasts you are screwed as they really will use it as a way to get you to rent their set top box for "digital cable". I have heard of very few cable providers that broadcast unencrypted digital channels that our QAM tuners can handle. Funny that I see the sponsor banner at the top of this page is Time-Warner and they are the worst offenders here where I live but 105 miles south of me TW-San Antonio broadcasts basic digital channels in the clear. :( Trying to talk to them has been useless here. Best I can do is relate to people what to expect. In most cases you better just plan on the added expenses of a STB, yet another AC outlet and another set of component and digital audio inputs on your surround amp if you are going with Digital Cable. I wasn't going to reward those business practices here in Austin so I went to Satellite.

Yes, I don't know why they did it that way. But if it's not digital it wont come out on the optic line. they want you to go back to the analog hook up.It's like the I link system for d-vhs they want you to have digital & analog hook ups to make the system work....

Driver and G.B. - thanks for the explanations on the audio. I don't have the (Comcast) digital cable box on this set because I am able to pull in all local HD channels using an indoor antenna, but now this digital audio thing has got me wondering if it might not be worth it just to get more of the digital audio for regular cable programming. Right now since I have both the toslink and regular audio cables connected the operation is seamless between digital and analog, but again the digital sounds so much better. I've adjusted the Sony volume for analog audio to a level that matches the "fixed" level of the digital audio so that when I switch back and forth between OTA and cable the volume level is the same, then use the receiver volume control to control both, up and down. One question I have is if I were to spend another $5 a month for the HD box on this set, how much more digital audio (especially 5.1) programming is available when watching thru the box, assuming of course I were to use the optical audio output on Comcast HD tuner?

Also Driver fyi at this point I am using the receiver's universal/learning remote to control everything other than special TV commands, so like you I am rarely using the Sony remote. By the way I bought the Denon 3805 receiver and it is a fantastic unit especially for 7.1 systems.

Hi guys,

I'm about to finally pull the trigger on a 60" XBR950 and I just have a couple more questions for you all before i do.

Has anyone else noticed that the XBR models seem to have more problems with geometry than the WE610 models? I've now seen 2 60" XBR models and both had obvious bowing in the middle top of the screen. It' was really obvious. However, i've never once seen this problem on the WE610 models. What gives?

Also, would you guys recommend buying a service plan with the XBR950? I'm really wanting to save some pennies here and i'd love to just think that hte XBRs are so well built that they won't have nearly as many problem as a WE610. Am I dreaming? :) Thanks


Tiger

Originally posted by Tigerriot
Hi guys,

I'm about to finally pull the trigger on a 60" XBR950 and I just have a couple more questions for you all before i do.

Has anyone else noticed that the XBR models seem to have more problems with geometry than the WE610 models? I've now seen 2 60" XBR models and both had obvious bowing in the middle top of the screen. It' was really obvious. However, i've never once seen this problem on the WE610 models. What gives?

Also, would you guys recommend buying a service plan with the XBR950? I'm really wanting to save some pennis here and i'd love to just think that hte XBRs are so well built that they won't have nearly as many problem as a WE610. Am I dreaming? :) Thanks


Tiger

You may want to go back and change your spelling of "pennies" so you won't confuse folks :-).

I'm very happy with my 60XBR950 - the only problem I've had is one dead pixel, which is off to the side. The XBR has had very few problems, but I would still opt for a good service plan. I typically don't buy service plans for electronics, but I consider this to be more of an insurance policy than a service plan. There are some very expensive parts in these RP-TVs, and the technology does not have the proven track record of CRT's. If you really want to save money, you might want to wait for the new Sony LCD RP-TVs this fall, which will be a better value.

Originally posted by Tigerriot
Hi guys,

Has anyone else noticed that the XBR models seem to have more problems with geometry than the WE610 models? I've now seen 2 60" XBR models and both had obvious bowing in the middle top of the screen. It' was really obvious. However, i've never once seen this problem on the WE610 models. What gives?

Tiger
Tiger,

I can't comment on the WE610 models but I have an 60XBR950 and it does have some ever so slight geometry problems. A very slight bowing in the middle and a slight tilt to the left. I have been told that there is no way to correct this through service menu adjustment. So I am happily tolerating them. It is not hard to do with the PQ... :D

My point is that if you get one with these problems, I'm told they can't be corrected.

dave99

JBaumgart

FYI, whats called digital cable is digital above 100.

Those channels below 100 would still have analog audio.

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
hi - seeing a new issue with my 60xbr950

the tv display letters at the extreme corners seem to be showing a slight
amount of ghosting. the ghosting is faint but the displacement of the ghost is much higher than usual.

attaching a photo below:

http://www.employees.org/~daftary/tv-ghost-1.jpg

now, believe me, the actual phenomena is more pronounced than the photo - and can be observed upto 7-8 ft away with slight effort.

here is another photo that outlines the ghost i m seeing

http://www.employees.org/~daftary/tv-ghost-2.jpg

This happens pretty much only in the 2 cornermost letters - M and u in this case. Seems to happen in all corners that I could test.

I cleaned the screen thinking it might be some dust thats causing some weird diffractions that is causing this ghosting but that did not solve it.

Anyone else seeing this on their sets ?

-Kuntal

What was the source of these characters and what input are you using?

Tiger
My geometry if off a little in the upper lefthand corner, However I only noticed it with a calibration disc. Otherwise you cannot tell.

Originally posted by JimP
JBaumgart

FYI, whats called digital cable is digital above 100.

Those channels below 100 would still have analog audio.

Yes, I guess I knew that, since I have a box upstairs, but for channels above 100 how much programming is there (like IHHD, ESPN HD, and Encore movie channels) that would offer 5.1 Dolby Digital? And for those that don't come in 5.1, is there a noticeable difference in audio fidelity, just because it's "digital", when connected to a good surround sound system, as compared to analog audio?

The characters are generated on the screen when the "Mute" button
on the remote is pressed - by an internal character generator of the set
I suppose.

Input was component connection on video 5 - labelled to DVD.

Happens on all inputs however.

Also, the letters "D" and "V" in DVD label showed the same problem.

Originally posted by probepro
What was the source of these characters and what input are you using?

probepro, it looks like optical distortion, similar to lens flare with cameras. I bet we all have that to a similar degree. the optics are pushed to the limit at the corners. I doubt it would be noticable on any video content...joe

3 Weeks ago I bought XBR Sony 70' TV from a local dealer in Toronto Canada where I live payed about 10G for the TV&original stand &Tax and delivery delivered to me in two days .. My first impression was and still very bad picture and cartooned colorers I did not like nothing in that TV except Hd
was good..I try all the sources I have DVD ,DishNetwork,VHS,cable,HD from my 6000 receiver and from my D-VHS..nothing looks good ..DVD was very bad the picture was not soft and dish +cable there was so much tearing and when face of the actors is far it's fuzzy and like there is some thing in screen center that appear whiter or brighter just I was happy with HD picture was looking OK,so I try to tweaking the TV for few days but still very bad
so I went and bought me LG DVD with DVI to try it ..seam thing except when I upscaling it to 1080i looks good or about normal to me ,so I call
the store manger complain about the TV then Sony call me and send me a repair man to see what is wrong with my TV ,and he told me that he has to take the TV to the shop and work on it because he has to replace some
part from inside the TV that send all the information to the screen so it is reasonable for all this and he has to work with the colors as well then he bring it back..and he said if I want in exchange I have to call the local store and ask them for replacement but still want be perfect TV,because not every thing I complained about will be OK even if I get a new one because some of the problems it's with this TV never mined what you do and he dose not recommend a calibration for this TV that part of what he told me..
I called the store manger and told him about my TV need to be fixed so I need another one as in exchange he told me that will take him two Day's
to talk to Sony and he will get me a new one .I called him after that and asked him so whats the news he told me that he is waiting to get Sony OK to replace the TV then he will send me one other wise I have to reaper it
and that's it,even I was telling him that maybe I decide to get a front projection as replacement after what I here't from the service man and my experience with this TV he told me that nothing he can do till Sony agree to take the TV back..I have few pictures taken to my TV I don't know if I can attached some and so you can tell me if your TV looks like mine and what should I do,because I bought this TV after reading this forum for months.
the date on TV back is OCT.2003. Thanks

That was very hard to read

That was very hard to read

:cool: Probally one of those French-speaking Canadians. I also found it hard to follow, a little bit too much run-on but you know it could've been worse... They could've used every acronym and slang word from chat, military and rap culture from the last 50 years. Lets cut the guy a break.

eddie

Sounds like you got a bad set. Was this suppose to have been a dealer's demo set or a new one out of the box?

Has anyone ever seen any Vertical Banding on these XBR sets?

Well, after lots of broken promises from CC, I canceled my order with them and ordered my 70XBR950 from Pacific Sales in Irvine, CA in March. Got a better price and deal all around. On May 6th, the delivery truck arrives and the 70XBR950 finds a home in my living room. Wife and daughter loves it, picture is fantastic, no major geometry issues, no bulb problems. I let the TV run for over 14 hours to help the bulb burn in.

On May 11, things take a dramatic turn for the worse...

I go to turn the TV on to watch my DirecTv. XBR flashes like normal, picture fades in and I can read the input lettering in the upper left corner. But no picture. Looking closely I can see angular horizontal flashes scrolling up the screen vertically. I change the input to my DVD player which is connected via component input. The DVD player is off, sending no signal to the XBR. The XBR shows a solid green screen in 4x3 format. I have cable as well, and the analog cable channels are completely distorted, rolling vertically.

After about 20 minutes of being on, the picture comes back! I leave the house to run errands and turn the XBR off. I come back about 2 hours later to green and rolling screens again. I call Pacific Sales, who tell me to call Sony.

So I call Sony and they give me the number of a local TV tech who is an authorized Sony Repair Center. I call the "Sony Authorized Repair Center" and talk to the guy who is obviously running the business out of his home. He shows up at my house about two hours later with his wife in tow. He looks like the butler from The Rocky Horror Picture Show. I turn the TV on for him and it works fine (figures).

He stares at my TV for about 5 minutes and pronounces that the problem is with my satellite box. I tell him about the beautiful green screen on the DVD input and politely ask for his explanation. He says he doesn't know and begins tapping the back of the XBR, asking his wife and I if we "see anything". We don't. He says he will call the Sony engineers and ask about what I'm describing. So far, no word back from the tech.

Wake up this morning and turn the XBR back on and I'm greeted by rolling and green screens again.

Anyone seen the behavior before? I mean in the XBR and not the Sony TV tech.

60XBR950, w/ a Yamaha RX-V420 reciever, x-box using HD pack, and a sony 5 disk DVP-NC655P...I like having a changer rather than single disk, however I want bang for my buck. What is the better components for this Display? and a good universal remote to controll them all..?:confused: :D

Originally posted by jsjohnst
60XBR950, w/ a Yamaha RX-V420 reciever, x-box using HD pack, and a sony 5 disk DVP-NC655P...I like having a changer rather than single disk, however I want bang for my buck. What is the better components for this Display? and a good universal remote to controll them all..?:confused: :D

Best "bang for the buck" for a receiver right now (IMO) is the Denon 3805 - see the Audio forums for good feedback on this one. I bought one last week and really love it. It is a 7.1 model and has Dolby PLIIx plus automatic speaker calibration, which really works well. Although it does have a universal remote that lights up when moved, I would have to say that it's not the receiver's strongpoint. I have it programmed to control my Sony (basic functions only) and Panasonic DVD player, but I plan to look into more well respected after market remotes like the Harmony, which seems to garner lots of praise.

Well, i'm very excited to say that i'll be joining the 60-XBR950 club next week! :D My set will be delivered on the Saturday the 22nd and i'm eagerly awaiting the enjoyment of this set.


Originally when I started looking at new tvs for my basement I thought the XBR950 was out of my price range but the wife came through in the end and gave the "ok" so I ended up with the perfect tv for our needs. I like to play videogames and I knew I needed a tv that I didn't have to worry about burn-in. DLPs were recently ruled out after me and my wife experienced almost instant headaches while watching them in a store. So, the XBR950 was the best LCD on the market and I couldn't be happier to own one. :)

I've to admit that i'm a little worried about watching DVDs on this tv though. I'm just worried that watching movies on a 60" set for the first time I might be a little shocked at the flaws that might be brought out when seeing them on a tv of that size. Up until now the biggest tv i've ever had in my house was a 42" GW III and I didn't noticed to many flaws on that but now i'm going to be looking at something with an extra 18" added on. Currently I watch everything on my 34" XBR910 so i'm basically seeing perfection on that set. :) I'll be interested to see how the XBR950 compares while watching DVDs.

I recently asked a SONY rep online about the difference between the XBR and the WE version of their LCD RPTVs especially in light of the cost difference.

I was told that the consensus at SONY is that the WE sets deliver a better picture and that the cost difference is basically that they were able to achieve this using less expensive components.

Is this "consensus" shared vy AVS forum members?

Tigerriot, welcome to the club. I received my 60XBR950 Dec 5th. You won't be disappointed with DVDs. I went from a 32" Sony XBR2 to this set and I think DVDs are just as sharp even though the screen area is almost 4X larger. Really well authored DVDs look as good as most prime time HD content. My best DVD is a Superbit version of "The Fifth Element". It's stunning, hard to tell from HD. This is because the Sony XBR950 has an incredibly good image scaler built in. I get the best picture by feeding DVD signal into the TV at 480i and letting the TV do all the scaling. I've tried 4 different progressive players, including the top rated Panasonic XP30. None look as good in progressive mode as they do in interlaced mode.

You will be in DV heaven...joe

weaver145, this may be true, but if so, I think it would only be for HD content. The XBR series has a much more sophisticated image scaler and it is the best TV in the market today for watching non-HD content. I demo'd both side by side for 5 hours with DirectTV and DVD content and there were very clear differences. If watch content other then HD, and you can afford it, the XBR 950 is the superior set...joe

I like the screen optic better & it was more like a competitor 20 k dollar set.Also the I link system is a good way to do video in digital & will probably be used for some time till they think of a better way.

Originally posted by weaver145
I recently asked a SONY rep online about the difference between the XBR and the WE version of their LCD RPTVs especially in light of the cost difference.

I was told that the consensus at SONY is that the WE sets deliver a better picture and that the cost difference is basically that they were able to achieve this using less expensive components.

Is this "consensus" shared vy ACS forum members?

I, too, did exhaustive side by side comparison. While HD looks stunning on both sets (no clear edge), SD programming looks much better on the XBR - hands down. That includes DVD programming ... the scaler in the XBR is so much better.

The biggest difference I noticed while comparing the XBR and WE is the XBR had almost no "noise" to be seen.

When people are talking about the "scaler" they are referring to the computer chip inside the tv that converts all the signals to 788p. The better that chip the cleaner the tv converts all the signals to 788p. That means much less "noise" and you'll see that difference when you look at both tvs side by side. The WE610s have mosquito like noise that is almost constant and it's noticable while watching dvds the most.

I guess I'll be looking out for mosquitos if and when the WE set arrives

Get a no pest strip....just kidding....

You'll see the mosquito noise for sure. It looks like dancing pixels all over the screen. I think they're usually slightly red in color.


In regards to the Sony rep telling you that the WE610s deliver a "better picture". Ask yourself this question: Why would Sony release an inferior product and call it an XBR? Wouldn't that hurt the consumer's confidence in the XBR line if the XBR was in fact inferior to the cheaper models?

Also, are you positive that rep wasn't talking about the previous XBR LCD projection models? It is the opinion of most people that the WE610s do look better than the previous year's XBR800. So, if the rep was referring to the XBR800 vs. the WE610 that comment would make sense. However, if you are sure he was referring to the XBR950 compared to the WE610 I think that comment is wrong.


Tiger

I had a 50WE610 for 2 months and the first thing I noticed when I got my 60" XBR was how much better all the SD programming was. I thought that was impressive considering the bigger screen.

I have done some pretty extensive testing of WE610 and XBR950's. There is definitely an advantage in HD for the XBR950 sets in resolution. I detected no difference in the quality of scaling between these or the XBR800's. The GWIII's use essentially the same video electronics excluding the HD Tuner and direct digital path. That is why the tweaks are almost identical for both. The quality of SD is virtually the same excluding the difference in the screen performance. I prefer the XBR950 screens while others prefer the WE610 it seems like a personal choice on the reflection/diffused ambient light issue.

The Cinema Black feature is a huge advantage for the XBR sets. This allows you to run the lamp bright in bright lighting and dimmer in lower light situations.

All of these comments refer to a "fully" calibrated set with high quality sources. Performance can vary greatly with different source material or poor calibration. An uncalibrated XBR950 or WE610 will not display its full capability without service menu adjustments.

The XBR800 sets can outperform the WE610's when you add filters to the light path and optimize the calibration. The WE610 can be brighter, but I find this to be a negative except in the most extreme lighting situations.

The XBR scaler "Chip" is actually 5 big chips. Sony is spending a lot more on this function in the XBR than anyone else...joe

Joe Jensen,

Do you have the schematics for both sets? Please post the differences.

I believe the biggest difference in the electronics is not the scaling, but the bit resolution. I believe the XBR950 operates with 10 bit while the WE610 uses 8 bit. However, I could not discern any PQ improvement from this.

I'll see if we can find one. My data is from the companies that design and build them. The data points were verbal...joe

That would explain the "eXtended Bit Rate" XBR acronym Sony uses for the higher line. :D

I've had my 60XBR950 for about 3 weeks now... it's so very very nice.

I can't believe that a Sony rep that knows anything would say that the WE line is superior to the XBR line. As a couple of members pointed out, if the WE set is calibrated and the XBR set is not, it may be possible to have a noticeable PQ difference, but without more accurately describing the sets, the statement can be very misleading. Assuming a fair comparison (i.e., both sets are calibrated or they are both not calibrated, both are the current year models) then I can't see how this statement could ever be true, or no one would buy the XBR line.

Sony is introducing a new XS model line in September, that will be closer to the XBR quality, but using cheaper (and/or fewer parts) to make the price point more affordable for people who want XBR-like quality but might not be able to afford an XBR price. Do a search on the web and you'll be able to see some thumb nail images of the new form factor (pre-production of course).

//robert

This was an online chat and now in retrospect I wish I had saved it. This chat took place about 2 months ago. I had asked the rep what he thought the major improvements were between the

60" XBR® Grand WEGA™
KDF-60XBR950

and the

60" Grand WEGA™ LCD Rear Projection TV
KF-60WE610

The specs by themselves did not highlight anything worth $1500 delta in the MSRP of the set.

If I recall correctly he mentioned that the We610 was newer technology and they were able to use less expensive parts. To be perfectly honest I left the chat with the feeling that the xbr was a dinosaur and they were just pushing out the last remaining units in inventory.

Obviously from these discussions it appears the XBR does have improved performance and if money is no object then it is still an in-demand product.

ps subsequent to that discussion I went and saw a SONY WE610 at a local dealer and I was "shocked and awed" by the awesome picture. They were feeding it an HD local broadcast signal. Now I kind of wished I had seen the set displaying a dvd source or SD cable signal.

The XBR is the "dinosaur"? It was released AFTER the WE610s!

Are you sure this "rep" wasn't talking about the XBR800?

Cant say. Were the XBR950s released in the last month or something? I am prettu sure this happened in late March.

As an experiement I will log on again and try to recreate my question and see what they say. You are welcome to do the same.

The KDF-60XBR950 was released (showed up in stores for the first time)around Thanksgiving 2003....joe

Yes this is true. I also was taking to a rep with Sony that i have known for some time, they would tell you the 610 W E was newer at that time before the 950 XBR come out. Which I thought was bad for the places that wanted to get the last of the XBR 800 out the door.

Guys I stand corrected. Seems sony style sent me a transcript of my online session and it was back in November of 2003 not March 2004 (how time flies) It was an XBR800 that was being discussed. My apologies

Here is the transcript



Question #031005-000216
---------------------------------------------------------------
Summary: Chat Session
Email Address: weaver145email@earthlink.net
Date Created: 10/05/2003 09:25 AM
Last Updated: 10/05/2003 09:25 AM
Status: Unresolved


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Chat Transcript - 10/05/2003 09:25 AM
User Name: weaver
E-mail: weaver145email@earthlink.net
=======================
weaver: Hi Reggie
weaver: a bit confused about tv products.
Reggie: Which model are you interested in?
weaver: LCD projection 50" I have seen wega and XBR models offered xf50We610 ?
weaver: also xf50xbr800 what is difference?
Reggie: Please give me a moment while I get this information for you.
Reggie: The XBR Grand WEGA Rear Projection TV KF-50XBR800 comes with great technologies that it is packed with, like a superior Extended Bit Rate Picture technology for higher image quality and Uniform Brightness Screen technology, which provides a wider vertical viewing angle and consistent horizontal brightness from top to bottom, resulting in brilliant picture images that can be seen from any angle and many more...
Reggie: The advantage of the opting for the new KF-50WE610 television is that, in addition to most of the features of the KF-50XBR800 (though not all), it features Memory Stick media slots for not only displaying JPEG images, but also MPEG1 file playback and WXGA LCD Panels with 3.28 Million Dots of Resolution ( compared to the XGA LCD Panel with total picture resolution of 3.15 million in the KF-50XBR800).
weaver: so the we610 is a newer version of the xbr800 ? with some improved features right?
Reggie: Right.
weaver: got it. one more question. in terms of picture quality are the LCD tvs = to or better or worse than the conventional CRT projection tvs in your lineup?
Reggie: The LCD should be better compared to rear projection TVs.
Reggie: Are you looking to make a purchase online, weaver?
weaver: ok I meant projection TVs with LCD engines like the two I mentioned. Not LCD tvs sorry
weaver: Reggie do yur conventional projection tvs offer better picture quality than these LCD driven sets
Reggie: The LCD driven Tvs provide better picture quality.
weaver: disconnected
Reggie: disconnected




And again I tried someone else to verify:




Question #031005-000204
---------------------------------------------------------------
Summary: Chat Session
Email Address: weaver145email@earthlink.net
Date Created: 10/05/2003 09:12 AM
Last Updated: 10/05/2003 09:12 AM
Status: Unresolved


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Chat Transcript - 10/05/2003 09:12 AM
User Name: weaver
E-mail: weaver145email@earthlink.net
=======================
weaver: Shawn
weaver: I just finished an online session with Reggie. he explained that the xbr800 is an older model to the we610 lcd driven projection tv. but the price of the we610 is a lot less. what am I giving up on the we610?
Shawn: Technological advances have reduced the prices of certain components and hence the prices of the newer models are less as compared to older models.
weaver: OK I just want to get it straight once and for all. the we610 is a better quality set than the xbr800 and costs less???
Shawn: Yes, you are right. Are you looking to place an order online?
weaver: yes most likely by this evening
Shawn: Shall I assist you in placing an order online?
Shawn: Thank you weaver, for visiting SonyStyle.com. Please feel free to contact us for further assistance.
Shawn: disconnected

Thanks for the correction. I was having a really hard time believing the XBR950 was "older" technology than the WE610. :)

Originally posted by weaver145
If I recall correctly he mentioned that the We610 was newer technology and they were able to use less expensive parts.

Not sure if this is related or not, but the WE610 seems to have had more problems with the bulb failing than the XBR. Since they use the same bulb, there must be some correleation to other parts. Whether this is because they are "cheaper" or not I don't know, as it could instead be a difference in its design that has led to fewer problems with the XBR sets, as opposed to what Sony pays to buy/build the parts.

Originally posted by weaver145
...Obviously from these discussions it appears the XBR does have improved performance and if money is no object then it is still an in-demand product....

That sums it up pretty well. I would not exchange my XBR800 for WE610, but I would for an XBR950 if it did not cost an arm and a leg. The improvement is real, but not worth the difference in cost to me.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
Has anyone tried using the digital audio output to their receiver or preamp? I just bought a new 7.1 receiver and made this connection, and was amazed at the sound. Really incredible for OTA broadcasts, especially movies like Harry Potter last night (the sound, not so much the movie itself!). Anyway, when you do this, you lose the "variable" audio and adjust solely with the receiver, and when using the cable antenna input (with straight SD cable feed) the digital audio will not work - still need to connect regular audio interconnects. VERY noticeable difference in sound quality between the two - just thought I would pass this on, as even having a digital audio output on a TV is quite unusual, and you'll want to take advantage of it if you can.

I plan to do that very soon. Looking for a good deal on a digital audio cable. Am excited about this change. Even on RCA (analog) it sounds great for me...wonder how much better I shall hear on a digital feed!

Folks: When you watch DVDs on XBR, on the main menu screen of a DVD, do the letters/text appear little wavy to you or are they all crisp and in same line? I sometimes see them not in same line...will try and get a picture of the same but wanted to see if anyone noticed that. The video otherwise is perfect.

Letters and text are perfect on my TV...joe

Maybe this a very silly question. How do I turn on the Closed captioning for local channels on my TV. Does anyone know if CC is also available for HDTV? I need to switch it on my XBR which is only connected to HDTV/Digital channels.

Originally posted by umr
That sums it up pretty well. I would not exchange my XBR800 for WE610, but I would for an XBR950 if it did not cost an arm and a leg. The improvement is real, but not worth the difference in cost to me.

Well if that is coming from you between the 800 and the 950 then I am pretty sure I'll have nothing to regret with a WE610. I dont know about the rest of the people on this forum, but with a 5 year old and a dog there will be enough fingerprints and dog snout marks on my screen 1 hour after set up to more than mask any visual improvement in the PQ between the sets.

I just thought of a more important question that I have not considered previously but think it deserves its own thread. off i go.

What does everyone think of the chance that the upcoming Sony KDF-60XS955 will offer equal or possible better performance than the current XBR950?


I only ask because it makes me nervous to see that set coming out this fall. It's $1000 less than the XBR and i'm afraid i'm going to see that set this fall and be really upset that I just spent $1000 extra for the XBR when I could have just waited for the XS and had almost the same thing.

This is the only thing that worries me in the back of my mind while I wait for the delivery of my 60-XBR950. :confused:


Tiger

There is dust on the back side of the protective screen along the right edge starting at the top, but mostly near the bottom for up to 2" from the edge. Thing is, it doesn't affect the picture, and is only visible when the set is off and there is light shining on the screen. I've had the TV for 6 months, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't there from day 1, but I could be wrong. I was surprised to read here that some one else had the same problem when the set was delivered, and was told it could not be fixed, and they replaced it. I expect this problem will get worse over time, but find it hard to believe that the screen cannot be cleaned. Anyone else having this problem?

I would guess that the dust is from the manufacturing process. I highly doubt it would get worse over time.


Thats just an educated guess though. ;)

Originally posted by jsjohnst
60XBR950, w/ a Yamaha RX-V420 reciever, x-box using HD pack, and a sony 5 disk DVP-NC655P...I like having a changer rather than single disk, however I want bang for my buck. What is the better components for this Display? and a good universal remote to controll them all..?:confused: :D

any comments on a good DVD player to replace the one I currently have?
does anyone know of a changer w/ good quality?

I know the Denon 2815 is a quality changer with a great picture. I think it runs about $450.

Can someone post the dimensions of the base the TV sits on. I'm looking for a rack and want to make sure it'll fit. I found the dimensions of the TV, but not the base on the Sony site. Thanks.

Hey All,

I've gone over the XBR950 service manual and as far as I remember, there are not "5" big chips to handle the scaling on the system. That would be a definite overshoot these days considering there are so many single system on a chip systems out there. I have also spoken with Team members of Sony's American design team and was told that the XBR950 specifically was designed out of Tokyo Japan. Now... At the heart of the XBR950 is the ATI Xellion processor. I posted about this some time ago. I'm not sure if this chip handles the XBR's scaling but it is a major component of the set. I usually avoid CS or Tech support reps and deal directly with product managers or engineers.

Regarding the direct digital path... I don't believe it really exists on this set and it is more of marketing speak than anything.... The circuit diagrams in the Sewrvice manual speak for themselves. The DVI Input on the XBR950 is transcoded to component video and is taken through the identical path as all other component inputs on the set.

In all I really enjoy the XBR950 and it has been a wonderful Home Digital Display device for all our HDTV, Satellite, HTPC DVD, HTPC Gaming and Game Console gaming since day 1.


*** Dust SPecs ****
A quick note... I had a dust Spec magically appear one day on the inside of my set. A local and unknowledgable service rep was sent out, cracked open the set, took the screen cleaning cloth that was supplied with the set and taped it to a yard stick. He then used this McGuiver contraption to grab the dust spec and remove it. So yes.... dust specs can be removed. When he left there were still two screws left over... So if someone is coming to work on your XBR make sure you are there to supervise.


Thankx,
Vidkidd

Originally posted by aus
Can someone post the dimensions of the base the TV sits on. I'm looking for a rack and want to make sure it'll fit. I found the dimensions of the TV, but not the base on the Sony site. Thanks.

Stand dimensions for both 60" and 70" XBR950:
71-5/16"W x 15-13/16"H x 24-1/16"D


-chris

Originally posted by vidkidd
...Regarding the direct digital path... I don't believe it really exists on this set and it is more of marketing speak than anything.... The circuit diagrams in the Sewrvice manual speak for themselves. The DVI Input on the XBR950 is transcoded to component video and is taken through the identical path as all other component inputs on the set....

Could you double check that. I thought we verified it was digital on the XBR950 schematics. Does the 1394 connection or HD tuner stay digital? 1394 from D-VHS looked essentially perfect on the set I saw.

Originally posted by vidkidd

*** Dust SPecs ****
A quick note... I had a dust Spec magically appear one day on the inside of my set. A local and unknowledgable service rep was sent out, cracked open the set, took the screen cleaning cloth that was supplied with the set and taped it to a yard stick. He then used this McGuiver contraption to grab the dust spec and remove it. So yes.... dust specs can be removed. When he left there were still two screws left over... So if someone is coming to work on your XBR make sure you are there to supervise.



Thanks vidkidd. It's good to know the dust can be removed. I've have an extended warranty, and since the dust is not noticeable while watching TV, I think I'll just leave well enough alone for now, unless it gets worse.

The 60" base with toe kick extended is 21" deep by 28 wide"
With toe kick retracted it's about 16" deep.

Where can I get information about the toe kick? ... I could not find anything in the TV set manual.

I built my own shelf and did not buy Sony's stand. I am still curious what the toe kick does and how it works.

slk230, thanks for that info.

and could you explain what "toe kicks" are? They they come with the set and fold out to stabilized it? Thanks.

For some more info, you can go to the Sony site and search for the model number, which is "SU-GW3". There is some good info up there, including a PDF with all the dimensions.. However, couldn't find anything on the "toe kick" slk230 mentioned.

-chris

The "toe kick" is a panel that pulls out from the front center of the TV to keep it from falling on its face if bumped.

The toe kick also engages the locks on the Sony stand when pushed in, which locks the tv onto the stand.

Folks,

Yesterday as I was about to watch my TV and was loading the disc into the DVD player, the screen was all black and I noticed that on the bottom right of the screen, I saw the color to appear dark greenish/greyish while the rest of the screen was black. Have you noticed this at all? What could this be. I'm worried, is the least I can say. I did put in a call to the tech guy and asked him to come over and look at it. He says this could be normal for this TV. Is that true?

Thanks.

This is a double post! bad bad....

He is correct in that this may be normal for this type of TV. Do you notice it at all when watching content, vs. an all-black screen? If not, then it may not be a real issue.

Originally posted by BTDT
This is a double post! bad bad....

He is correct in that this may be normal for this type of TV. Do you notice it at all when watching content, vs. an all-black screen? If not, then it may not be a real issue.

Yes it was coz it was intended to target different people. Generally people visit their favorite posts during the visit and do not venture outside them and therefore responses/solutions can be very limited. Therefore with important issues, this cannot/should not be considered wrong. Case in point, my other threads seem to have generated so many responses and there was none on this one as yet. On this one, I am expecting to hear from current owners if they saw this issue as well.

Also, I just noticed this when screen was black and was not watching anything. Due to so many colors while watching DVDs, I do not see this issue (or cannot pinpoint it even if it exists)

Yes, I think this is a very common issue having to do with the optics and diffussion of red/green/blue colors across the display. Being a perfectionists of sorts it bothers me as well, but given it does not impact viewing it is likely not a showstopper, or even a case where I would let a repair rep touch my set (very risky in my opinion). Good luck!

and yes, I understand the need to reach multiple audiences.

Well just like u, I am quite nuts abt small things and therefore will have a Tech guy come over and tell me what his take is on the issue and then decide the course of action. I would rather have him take a look at this set rather than thinking I never had anyone look at it and it keeps bothering me! Cause I know it will be on mind now all the time!

I am seeing a major problem with my 60" set currently - there is definitely ghosting in HD signals (most prominent with 9.1 KQED PBS HD in the bay area) and in DVD 480P input.

It probably happens with SD also but is not clearly visible since edges are not sharp in SD anyway.

The problem is that CC refuses to exchange the set since I have already exchanged once for dead pixels and this is my second set. The store mgr wants to send a tech out who can verify the problem before he "approves" the exchange.

He refuses to honor the 30-day limit also saying that 30-days start from the delivery of the first set and DOES NOT restart when the second set is delivered.

However, his asst. store mgr. had assured me that the 30-days start again when I was looking to place the order (most likely to make the large sale). And basically now they are going back on their word.

Anything I can do at this point to hold them to their word ?

After reading mallu's post, I am concerned that the tech will come out and say that "this is normal with this set" and I will be stuck with the problem.

The store mgr refuses to even take the set back and refund the money.

What is the point of paying >5K $ for a set and >500 $ for service plan if
the set is going to have problems and tech is going to say "this set is like this only" and they dont even let you opt out of the purchase.

Is there anything I can do to protect myself ?

-Kuntal

Well...I shall let u know what the tech guy says. he is coming over tomorrow in my case.

I've got to tell you guys. I'm beign tempted by the dark side. :confused:

I'm set to take delivery on a 60" XBR950 on Saturday and I am thinking about changing my order.


All this talk on this thread as well as the GW III threads scares the crap out of me. It seems like these Sony LCD Projections are just riddled with problems and eventually they all require service of some kind at some point. It's just stuff I don't want to deal with even though I bought an extended warranty with my set. It's not like this set is tiny and can be replaced easily or fixed easily.


So, i've been looking long and hard at the 42" Sony XS910 plasma. It's got quite a stunning picture and I could buy it for the exact same price I paid for my 60" XBR950 and the Sony stand. I have yet to hear about various problems on these sets at all.


So, i'm just considering this right now. What do you guys think? In many ways the picture quality of the plasma will be better but I don't really want to have to worry about burn-in all the time either so thats why i'm so torn. The size difference really isn't that big of a deal to me as I wasn't exactly looking to buy a 60" anyway. I just decided on a 60" because I wanted an XBR and that was the smallest one they made.

I'm very torn on this whole thing right now. :confused:

What do you guys think? Tell me why the XBR950 is a better choice.

Tigerriot,

Sony does not make the best plasmas on the market. I would look at other brands. You need to look at low level black performance. They tend to posturize. I have also seen problems with color decoder accuracy.

Size always is a very important variable. Be careful about this issue. Do not choose something too small or too large. A 42" should not be able to replace a 60" and visa versa if you have done this part right.

The XBR950's are not problem free, but neither is anything else. You should read the reports of people dusting their plasmas and ruining them because of static discharge or burn-in from too much CNBC.

I would not buy anything if you want a guarantee of no issues.

Well, first the size thing.


I originally started searching for tvs and I wanted nothing bigger than 50". So, the 60" was really too big in many ways. I was gonna have to arrange my basement a whole different way to accomodate that tv. So, a 42" isn't going to be a problem at all.


In many ways I see the picture quality of the plasma as being better. They really look sharp and overall they will have a better black level than the LCD Projection. Maybe not perfect but still better than the LCD.


I'm well aware of plasmas having problems too but it just doesn't seem to be as frequent as it is with these LCD projections. I'm also beginning to seriously wonder about the long term life span of LCDs. We've seen many reports of clusters of pixels going out and many others talking about vertical banding that worsened over time. Not to mention this whole color on a black screen phenomenon. It's just all got me worried.

Also, in regards to Sony not making the best plasmas.

I know many people say they aren't the best but i'll tell you this. When i've looked at them in stores recently they look pretty darn good to me. Better than much of the competition. The Pannys look great but i've read about major power pack failures on those recently. The Sony offers a very nice plasma picture and all the wonderful features Sony's tvs offer as well. I really am a believer in their tv products and they're line of plasmas has made huge strides in the past year. From what i've seen I believe their XBR plasmas are the best on the market. The XS910 model i'm looking at offers performance that is very close to the XBR for a lot less money.

Tigerriot,

Be sure to use your own source material when comparing these sets. When I went through that exercise the Sony Plasmas failed miserably. I can get Sony at cost so I thought about getting one. I passed. I did not look at the XBR910 so it could be different. Just be thorough and you should be happy either way you choose to go.

Let me ask you this one question UMR.

How delicate do you feel plasmas are? What was this about someone dusting their plasma and ruining it? I'm assuming that was an isolated incident?

All I can say is this. If I get that XBR950 come this weekend and it has a problem I am going to shoot that thing Elvis style. :cool:

Originally posted by Tigerriot
Let me ask you this one question UMR.

How delicate do you feel plasmas are? What was this about someone dusting their plasma and ruining it? I'm assuming that was an isolated incident?
...

I would guess a plasma is more delicate than the XBR950, but they should not be extreemly fragile either. I am only basing this on what I have read. I have never owned a plasma TV. I would own one if the PQ was better.

"I'm well aware of plasmas having problems too but it just doesn't seem to be as frequent as it is with these LCD projections. I'm also beginning to seriously wonder about the long term life span of LCDs. We've seen many reports of clusters of pixels going out and many others talking about vertical banding that worsened over time. Not to mention this whole color on a black screen phenomenon. It's just all got me worried."


Anyone want to try and offer a reply to that quote from me?

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
Is there anything I can do to protect myself ?

If you paid with a credit card, you may have some protection there. You'll want to contact them to be sure.

Not sure about CC policy, but I would start escalating up through the ranks until you get to the CEO. If you are professional throughout the process (don't bash too much), you may run across someone who cares enough to do something about it.

-chris

Originally posted by Tigerriot
How delicate do you feel plasmas are?

I have a first generation plasma that I have crated and moved across the country twice.. Thing still looks awesome with over 12K hours of use!! : )

Seriously, I would GUESS that plasma is going to be more reliable simply because it has been around longer. However, I don't think there is anyway one definitively can say one is better than the other. There are too many factors that can come into play when it comes to hardware/software failures.

Go look at 'em with your own source material (like umr states) and make a decision based on what looks best to you, sticking within your budget. Just be sure to purchase some sort of protection plan.. : )

-chris

Originally posted by xiskool
If you paid with a credit card, you may have some protection there. You'll want to contact them to be sure.

Not sure about CC policy, but I would start escalating up through the ranks until you get to the CEO. If you are professional throughout the process (don't bash too much), you may run across someone who cares enough to do something about it.

-chris

ok - I just spent better part of the day escalating this through the ranks upto the district manager without any effect whatsoever. All I get is "sorry our sales mgr misled you. we will deal with him in our own way. but you dont get consideration for that."

the only place i havent tried now is the office of the president and at this point i dont think i will have much luck there either.

i feel like a sitting duck in corporate america today.

i have to resign myself to subpar performace not deserving $5K till the service tech comes in, take the day off and lose pay on the day he comes in just because some greedy CC guy lied to me and CC as a company is supporting him.

The district manager actually told me this:

1. we dont exchange TVs for dead pixels. does it say anywhere that we exchange TV for dead pixels on your receipt ?! not 5 not 15 dead pixels.

the sales mgr had told me: we exchange TVs with 5 dead pixels no questions asked.

(my first set had at least 8 dead pixels that I found - which is not worth an exchange according to district manager - which is probably why I am being given such a hard time).

2. the service plan does not start until the mfg runs out after 1 year. So a service plan for 4 years is in effect for only 3 years after the mfg warranty runs out. for the 1st year i have to contact the mfg for any defect.

the sales mgr told me: the service plan start in parallel with the sony's warranty and once i get the service plan, i dont have to deal with sony ever again. i just call CC service center.

So much discrepancy within the sales and operation staff !!!

So folks, from my experience, get everything in writing when shopping at CC (well, i am not ever again)

- number of dead pixels
- amt of misconvergence
- amt of geometry distortion

Forsee all possible issues and get it in writing after which point will they actually consider the set defective.

The service tech is coming in day after tomorrow and right now I am totally dreading that fact that he will say "there is nothing wrong with the set".

-Kuntal

Tiggeriot:

As you know from posting and reading on this for a long long time all of the types and brands of sets have issues of various sorts. What you want to look out for are serious quality problems that are not being fixed. I don't think that the Sony LCDs have that at present.

- The bulb issue looks to be a defect in at least some of the Phillips bulbs
- The "color on black" issue is VERY faint and cannot be seen with any image on the screen, including one which is nearly all black (don't ask me why, but it isn't). I would think it is a distribution of light issue of some sort. I don't consider it to be a real issue, however.
- Are there any solid stories of progressively-occuring pixel outages? There was one posted to the forum a long time back and then the poster disappeared. I am not aware of any others myself. I haven't heard of the banding issue but haven't seen a hint of anything like that on the XBRs. This would have to be a video processing issue of some sort if it is occuring.

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
I am seeing a major problem with my 60" set currently - there is definitely ghosting in HD signals (most prominent with 9.1 KQED PBS HD in the bay area) and in DVD 480P input.

It probably happens with SD also but is not clearly visible since edges are not sharp in SD anyway.
-Kuntal

Sounds like an alignment issue to me, if you can see it from normal viewing distances. If you can only see it when you are 3-4 inches from the screen than it is a normal aspect of the technology. My picture looks crystal clear from 9' but if I get close enough I can see a slight edging around text, etc. This has to do with the difference wavelengths of light involved, and can also be seen on other RP technologies.

kuntaldaftary

By any chance, have you been in the service menu?

There's an adjustment that has to do with artificial edge enhancement that when set to an extreme would appear as ghosting.(to both the left and right at the same time) they're other adjustments that would only do it to one side.

Can you post a picture of what its doing?

Originally posted by barretto
That would explain the "eXtended Bit Rate" XBR acronym Sony uses for the higher line. :D

I've had my 60XBR950 for about 3 weeks now... it's so very very nice.

Sony is introducing a new XS model line in September, that will be closer to the XBR quality, but using cheaper (and/or fewer parts) to make the price point more affordable for people who want XBR-like quality but might not be able to afford an XBR price.
//robert


It was my understanding that the "XBR" line is Sony's flagship line. In other words, it doesn't get any better than an XBR!

Originally posted by Tigerriot
"I'm well aware of plasmas having problems too but it just doesn't seem to be as frequent as it is with these LCD projections. I'm also beginning to seriously wonder about the long term life span of LCDs. We've seen many reports of clusters of pixels going out and many others talking about vertical banding that worsened over time. Not to mention this whole color on a black screen phenomenon. It's just all got me worried."


Anyone want to try and offer a reply to that quote from me?

Tiger,
Just some "food for thought" here, keep in mind that people post problems they encounter or Negatives about their sets 95% of the time, and about 5% will post how pleased they are with their set, speakers, recievers or whatever the topic.... It is a natural impulse to post a problem to get help in isolating a problem and see if others are experiencing the same as opposed to the good experiences people are having with their sets/stuff.

I for one read this thread just about daily because I own the 70xbr and look to see what is the latest and greatest from day to day on these awesome TV's. However, I find myself nervous as hell each time I turn on my TV wondering if it is going to be a black screen, or a burnt pixel, or a geometry issue or an all green screen and so on, because of all the negatives I have read. If I didn't spend so much time reading about this stuff, I wouldn't feel this way and use my TV like any other I have owned.

I have had my 70XBR since March, I don't abuse it, I watch it, I turn it off when I'm done viewing and she works great time after time... Not only that, but it seems to look better and better each day. I just watched "The Last Samurai" last night, and I just couldn't get over the Picture Quality and Cinematography. It was stunning!

I hope that encourages you a bit and helps you make a decision toward the LCD. These XBR's are awesome, and I love mine!!

As a matter of fact, I'll bet you will find a lot of negatives about the Plasmas if you spend a few weeks or months reading the threads on some popular models listed there!!!:)

I spent six months looking at WE610 and XBR950 issues, reading these threads and looking at stores. I finally got fed up with all the bulb failure issues on these sets. The ballast startup and bulbs are the same, and their is still a design issue that Sony can't fix, after stone walling it for many months. I just don't need those problems, and replacing a normal $250 bulb every 2-3 years.

The more I looked at WE610 and XBR950, the more garish and blurred they looked. All RPTVs have a artificial cartoon effect, including DLPs.

Everytime I looked at plasmas, they looked great, with more natural realistic pictures. Even the cheapest Dawaoo or Akai plasma looked better than a Sony XBR950. So much for Sony XBR quality! I was a real Sony fan.

So I bought a Costco.com Maxent MX-50X1 plasma, and I am really pleased with it. Terrific picture quality on SD and HD, really nice cabinet compared to the ugly WE610. I don't need to worry about bulbs crapping out, or chromatic aberration!

These LCD and DLP RPTVs are really just a interim technology solution, and I think people who bought them will really regret it. When a picture is presented on a plasma, it is displayed exactly as recorded, with no chromatic or optical distortion. All RPTVs have this fault. Each pixel on a plasma is exactly selected as a direct view, with no optical projection issues. And the narrow viewing angle of RPTVs drives me nuts! It seems so artificial compared to the wide viewing angle of plasmas.

Costco has a unlimited return policy, so I don't need a service warranty. ANY ISSUE, and I just return it to my local Costco story for a full cash refund. I wonder how many people that got burned with Sony WE610 and XBR950 would just love to have this option?

Originally posted by JimP
kuntaldaftary

By any chance, have you been in the service menu?

There's an adjustment that has to do with artificial edge enhancement that when set to an extreme would appear as ghosting.(to both the left and right at the same time) they're other adjustments that would only do it to one side.

Can you post a picture of what its doing?

Here is are some pictures I took of what it is doing. This is with Sony DVP-NS725P DVD player connected via Component inputs to video 5 in progressive mode.

http://www.employees.org/~daftary/off-min.jpg Sharpness 0 - Detail Enhancer Off
http://www.employees.org/~daftary/off-med.jpg Sharpness halfway - Detail Enhancer Off
http://www.employees.org/~daftary/off-max.jpg Sharpness max - Detail Enhancer Off
http://www.employees.org/~daftary/high-min.jpg Sharpness 0 - Detail Enhancer High
http://www.employees.org/~daftary/high-med.jpg Sharpness halfway - Detail Enhancer High
http://www.employees.org/~daftary/high-max.jpg Sharpness max - Detail Enhancer High

I have been in the service menu to do the UMR tweaks. The tweaks seemed to worsen the problem (probably due to setting USHP to 0) so I undid the tweaks.

The problem is least with Sharpness about half way and Detail Enhancer Off (as you can see in the pictures above). But the problem is that with detail enhancer off the picture looks soft (even with sharpness half way). And with sharpness halfway, the noise is higher than sharpness at 0. (NR is High and Mild Mode is off all throughout).

I am really really surprised to see Sharpness = 0 causing outlines ! I thought lower the sharpness, lesser the outlines.

With a previous set, my normal setting used to be:
Sharpness 0
Mild Mode off
NR High
Detail Enhancer High

With this set, the only acceptable setting is:
Sharpness Middle
Mild Mode Off
NR High
Detail Enhancer Off

And this setting is still causing softer picture and noisier picture than previous set.

Let me know if there is anything that anyone can suggest I try based on the pictures above. Or if this is a defect.

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
...I have been in the service menu to do the UMR tweaks. The tweaks seemed to worsen the problem (probably due to setting USHP to 0) so I undid the tweaks....Let me know if there is anything that anyone can suggest I try based on the pictures above. Or if this is a defect.

Nice photos.

The best PQ appears to be Mid Sharpness with no detail enhancement.

You might want to reread the tweaks and follow the procedure. They do not tell you to set USHP to 0. That is just the value I ended up using on two other sets.

Originally posted by K9SS
I spent six months looking at WE610 and XBR950 issues, reading these threads and looking at stores. I finally got fed up with all the bulb failure issues on these sets. The ballast startup and bulbs are the same, and their is still a design issue that Sony can't fix, after stone walling it for many months. I just don't need those problems, and replacing a normal $250 bulb every 2-3 years.


-------No bulb issue w/ latest XBRs…not sure how 6 months research yielded only bulb issues. Actually, there is no perfect tv so you could poke holes in any technology (lcd, dlp, rp, ptube and plasma).

The more I looked at WE610 and XBR950, the more garish and blurred they looked. All RPTVs have a artificial cartoon effect, including DLPs.

-------Agreed w/ DLPs (I had the Samsung 61 before returning for the 70 xbr). Disagree w/ the xbr…it’s the best sony can design (which is arguably the best tv designer on the planet). It is also not valid to compare we610s to xbr950’s.

Everytime I looked at plasmas, they looked great, with more natural realistic pictures. Even the cheapest Dawaoo or Akai plasma looked better than a Sony XBR950. So much for Sony XBR quality! I was a real Sony fan.

-------Good Plasma’s are fantastic in HD. I question how good they are in SD. The70xbr is very good w/ SD (which is important to me as it’s our main viewing tv) and incredible in HD. Hands down the best tv out there as it treats all inputs well. My opinion. I’ll take a Sony any day over a Maxent…which as far as I know could have been making finger nail clippers last year before they announced their “entry” into the plasma space.


So I bought a Costco.com Maxent MX-50X1 plasma, and I am really pleased with it. Terrific picture quality on SD and HD, really nice cabinet compared to the ugly WE610. I don't need to worry about bulbs crapping out, or chromatic aberration!

------How proven is Plasma technology?…not very.. Also comparing a tv to the we610 that costs more than twice as much as the we610 makes no sense. I know nothing of the we610 however…this is the xbr thread. Again, no bulb issue on the latest xbr (vs the early 03 model). You do need to replace the bulb but it is based on hours not years (6,000 hours). The look of the xbrs is unparalleled.

These LCD and DLP RPTVs are really just a interim technology solution, and I think people who bought them will really regret it. When a picture is presented on a plasma, it is displayed exactly as recorded, with no chromatic or optical distortion. All RPTVs have this fault. Each pixel on a plasma is exactly selected as a direct view, with no optical projection issues. And the narrow viewing angle of RPTVs drives me nuts! It seems so artificial compared to the wide viewing angle of plasmas.

---------Interim technology? Too many companies entering in the LCD (and DLP) market for your opin to hold water. The viewing angle of the 70xbr is quite good and the corner to corner consistent brightness level is unbeatable (similar to plasma).

Costco has a unlimited return policy, so I don't need a service warranty. ANY ISSUE, and I just return it to my local Costco story for a full cash refund. I wonder how many people that got burned with Sony WE610 and XBR950 would just love to have this option?

--------I couldn’t be happier w/ my 70 xbr (which cost about the same as your 50 plasma but is 60% larger in screen size). Unfortunately for you, I believe Costco’s return policy will be amended as it was with computers last November (which shortened the return period to 6 months). I can’t see someone returning a 6K tv 2 years later because of product issues. If everyone abuses the return policy as you are implying you will, they will limit the return policy to the one year manu warrenty or less.

WAKE UP MAN! Your comparing a much smaller plasma to the top of the line xbr (and inferior we610 series). You also just spent $6K on a Maxent!

kuntaldaftary

Not sure if this applies to the XBR model, but under DCP-ADJ2 check SHFO and see if its between 13 and 15(preferably 15). Its easy to get SHFO and SHOF confused.

Originally posted by umr
Nice photos.

The best PQ appears to be Mid Sharpness with no detail enhancement.

You might want to reread the tweaks and follow the procedure. They do not tell you to set USHP to 0. That is just the value I ended up using on two other sets.

umr,

I agree that the tweaks dont say set it to 0 - I just dropped the values you achieved assuming it will work - it did with previous set.

In any case, it seems that USHP adjustment is same as the Sharpness in USER menu (what sharpness in user menu will be set to on pressing the reset button). So I decided to use the user menu sharpness setting directly.

At this point, my main concerns are:

- is the amt of outlines seen a problem in the set ? the amt of outlines seem really really drastic ! in worst case scenario, i can actually see 2-3 ghosts and not just 1. The usable range of the "sharpness" control is EXTREMELY narrow. Can this be changed ? repaired ?

I guess what I am looking for is to reduce the "sensitivity" of the sharpness control.

- setting sharpness to 0 also causes bad case of outlines - is this normal ?

- cannot use the detail enhancer without which the picture looks really soft.

- even in the best case of sharpness/detail combo - there is an extremely faint outline - which I am able to pick up even at viewing distance. I havent been able to get absolutely 0 outline with reasonably sharp picture.

Originally posted by JimP
kuntaldaftary

Not sure if this applies to the XBR model, but under DCP-ADJ2 check SHFO and see if its between 13 and 15(preferably 15). Its easy to get SHFO and SHOF confused.

JimP - SHF0 is already set to 14. I had changed it to 15 when I did the tweaks without any favorable changes to the picture :-(

Anyone seeing the following issues ?

- Black Corrector - cycling through the 4 values end up giving me just 3 different levels really. High and Off result in the same picture rather than to extreme pictures. Went to a store and checked a display set, and I got 4 different picture brightness with that set.

- same story with gamma correction

- NR - cycling through various values of NR makes no difference at all

Originally posted by BTDT
Sounds like an alignment issue to me, if you can see it from normal viewing distances. If you can only see it when you are 3-4 inches from the screen than it is a normal aspect of the technology. My picture looks crystal clear from 9' but if I get close enough I can see a slight edging around text, etc. This has to do with the difference wavelengths of light involved, and can also be seen on other RP technologies.

BTDT

I can definitely see it at normal viewing distances ! If it is an alignment issue, do u know if it is repairable ?

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
umr,

,,,,- is the amt of outlines seen a problem in the set ? the amt of outlines seem really really drastic ! in worst case scenario, i can actually see 2-3 ghosts and not just 1. The usable range of the "sharpness" control is EXTREMELY narrow. Can this be changed ? repaired ?

I guess what I am looking for is to reduce the "sensitivity" of the sharpness control.

- setting sharpness to 0 also causes bad case of outlines - is this normal ?

- cannot use the detail enhancer without which the picture looks really soft.

- even in the best case of sharpness/detail combo - there is an extremely faint outline - which I am able to pick up even at viewing distance. I havent been able to get absolutely 0 outline with reasonably sharp picture.

It looks to me like you may not have set all the filtering and sharpness tweaks as recommended. SHF0 should be 15 not 14 if your set is performing like all the others. I am not the only one to recommend that value. When the filtering is present it must be offset with sharpness. A sharpness value greater than minimum is to be expected in that case.

This is why I recommend you go back through the procedure. I would not question the values where specific ones are given.

It is also possible that you prefer some level of enhancement if you like the image with the Detail Enhancer on.

Well, I made my decision last night.


I went to my local store (Abt Electronics) that I had purchased my Sony 60" XBR950 LCD projection and I took a good long look at the plasmas I had mentioned (including the new Panasonic Vieras) as well as another good hard look at the XBR LCD Projection. Both had the same high def feed from HDnet.


I decided to stick with the XBR LCD Projection and it will be delivered on Friday.


When viewing the various sets last night and comparing the Plasmas to the XBR LCD I couldn't help but be impressed with the Sony's image quality and pure size at 60". I was VERY impressed with both the Sony and the Panasonic plasmas but it came down to this. The XBR LCD offered image quality very comparable to the Plasmas from both Sony and Panasonic. It really is comparable when viewing the tvs from their appropriate distances. I was sitting about 8 feet from the plasmas and about 12 feet from the LCD Projection and the differences just were not that big. In the end I realized the only advantage I would garner from the plasmas was a better black level but even that wasn't a huge differences when you see the respectable black levels that the XBR LCD is able to achieve. It's much better than all other LCD Projection sets. The XBR also has the best Wega processing inside of it and it shows in it's ability to display that huge image with almost no noise and artifacts.


HDnet played a massive trailer for the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy (I guess they're getting it soon) and I almost cried while watching it on the XBR LCD in all of it's 60" glory. At that point I realized the differences were not big enough for me to go to the smaller size. Add to that the fact that I could play my videogames and watch whatever I want on the LCD without the worries of burn-in and that sealed the deal.


So, i'm really excited to get the thing home and put it through the paces. I'm very interested to see the black levels in a completely dark enviornment. The room that I was viewing it in last night was pretty dark but still not total darkness.


If anyone is interested i'll report back after the weekend and give a final analysis of the XBR LCD.

Tiger

Tigerriot

Glad you didn't turn to the dark side. ;)

Congrats !

Tigerriot,

You may be even happier with your choice if you do the SM tweaks.

Kuntaldaftary, Some of the problems you have is why we do the tweaks & most of us had this problem out of the box. All of UMR'S tweaks is the way to do it. The most important I think is in the MID 5 section # 5 MVLC = 0 and make #6 MHLC = 1. Yes the SHOF and SHFO is confusing, but I also make certain I'm at the right place because SHFO is # 1 in the DCP-ADJ2 section make it 15.....In PRO MODE after the tweaks sharpness in mid or 31 steps from the left Is sharp enough this = in the mid range using test DVD'S. Some like it at 22 from left. I use the enhancer in mid or high because I think it helps 480 I and some or old VHS tapes.

Tigerriot: I am glad as well u bought this set. I am loving it as well. Agreed that I have an issue with some green bleeding right now. Buts that when I have no source and am staring at dark blank screen. Overall I love the TV though.

I am still waiting to hear back from the tech guy who came over. He came in the day when the issue is not that prominent and did not see much. Lets see what happens. I am going to make sure they come over in evening if they do not act upon it based on his visit. I hope this green bleeding that does become more prominent with time. Right now I do not see it when I watching TV or DVD. Any experiences out there where it became worse? I bought it at Myer Emco, a local store and will hear from them today or tomorrow.

I will say this in regards to having problems with my XBR LCD once it's delivered.

If I see a single problem in those first 30 days I can say with 100% certainty that the tv is going back. This set has me a little scared but as long as I get a set with (a) no color bleeding on a black screen, (b) no odd ghosting or double images, and (c) no dirt behind the screen i'll be ok.

Originally posted by Tigerriot
I will say this in regards to having problems with my XBR LCD once it's delivered.

If I see a single problem in those first 30 days I can say with 100% certainty that the tv is going back. This set has me a little scared but as long as I get a set with (a) no color bleeding on a black screen, (b) no odd ghosting or double images, and (c) no dirt behind the screen i'll be ok.

You might as well not take delivery. No set is perfect. You will see uneven color and illumination with some test patterns. Ghosting will also be present unless you do the service menu tweaks.

:-) . I can understand that Tigerriot. I hope u have no issue and plain love the TV!

Originally posted by umr
You might as well not take delivery. No set is perfect. You will see uneven color and illumination with some test patterns. Ghosting will also be present unless you do the service menu tweaks.

Umr: I do not personally see any ghosting on the set. Dunno if there is something in particular that brings out this issue. Do see the bleed however that I already noted earlier.

Do I expect "PERFECTION"? No.

Do I expect my $6000 tv to at least be able to display a perfectly black screen? Yes.


When you are spending $6000 on a television it should be pretty much perfect.


There is NO reason I should have to accept some blotchy colors on a black screen or ghosting of lines. Not for that kind of money.


You guys are scaring me again. :confused:

This is what made me originally consider the plasmas. You are not going to bring a plasma home and have to "accept" blotchy colors in a black screen. You aren't going to have to accept ghosting. Those are just the facts.


I just hope all is ok when I get my set or I will likely be getting plasma and calling it a day.

Originally posted by Tigerriot
Do I expect "PERFECTION"? No.

Do I expect my $6000 tv to at least be able to display a perfectly black screen? Yes.


When you are spending $6000 on a television it should be pretty much perfect.


There is NO reason I should have to accept some blotchy colors on a black screen or ghosting of lines. Not for that kind of money.


You guys are scaring me again. :confused:

This is what made me originally consider the plasmas. You are not going to bring a plasma home and have to "accept" blotchy colors in a black screen. You aren't going to have to accept ghosting. Those are just the facts.


I just hope all is ok when I get my set or I will likely be getting plasma and calling it a day.

Don't second guess urself. Get the TV and see how u like it. I am sure u will.

Oh, i'm not changing my mind now. I'm just saying that if there are any problems that I feel are not acceptable I am taking full advantage of that return policy and I will likely be getting a plasma instead.


For me it was that close of a decision that if there is anything that bothers me about the XBR LCD I will just get the plasma.

The reason I went for the LCD and not plasma was for two reasons:

- Price (for the same size)
- Bulb Life (You change a LCD buld when it gets dim vs. not for plasma)

Thats what made the decision for me.

Originally posted by mallu2u
The reason I went for the LCD and not plasma was for two reasons:

- Price (for the same size)
- Bulb Life (You change a LCD buld when it gets dim vs. not for plasma)

Thats what made the decision for me.

Don't forget you can damage a plasma by burn-in. You can't on the LCD.

//robert

Originally posted by umr
It looks to me like you may not have set all the filtering and sharpness tweaks as recommended. SHF0 should be 15 not 14 if your set is performing like all the others. I am not the only one to recommend that value. When the filtering is present it must be offset with sharpness. A sharpness value greater than minimum is to be expected in that case.

This is why I recommend you go back through the procedure. I would not question the values where specific ones are given.

It is also possible that you prefer some level of enhancement if you like the image with the Detail Enhancer on.

umr,

I will re-try the tweaks and try to find my own values where specific values are not given.

- Do I do tweaks with Detail Enhance Off or On ?

- what does SHF0 actually do ? some "filtering" ? what sort of filtering ?

- can i perform the tweaks on SD co-ax input (that comes up as C3 for me)

- can i perform the tweaks on the antenna input ? How to deal with the fact that antenna input keeps on changing mode from 480i to 1080i (to 720p sometimes) depending on time of the day and channel.

- you say "It is also possible that you prefer some level of enhancement if you like the image with the Detail Enhancer on." --- so how do I get some enhancement without the outlines ? Are you saying that I have to tweak some item in service menu to get enhancement ? How do I do that ?

Do I expect my $6000 tv to at least be able to display a perfectly black screen? Yes.

If you expecting a perfect black screen on a Blank input with the lights out, I think you will be disappointed. I have yet to see a GWIII or XBR LCD-RP TV have perfect color uniformity under these circumstances. I live with this issue because my viewing habits don't consist of staring at a black blank input on the screen and it is not noticeable otherwise.

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
umr,

I will re-try the tweaks and try to find my own values where specific values are not given.

- Do I do tweaks with Detail Enhance Off or On ?

- what does SHF0 actually do ? some "filtering" ? what sort of filtering ?

- can i perform the tweaks on SD co-ax input (that comes up as C3 for me)

- can i perform the tweaks on the antenna input ? How to deal with the fact that antenna input keeps on changing mode from 480i to 1080i (to 720p sometimes) depending on time of the day and channel.

- you say "It is also possible that you prefer some level of enhancement if you like the image with the Detail Enhancer on." --- so how do I get some enhancement without the outlines ? Are you saying that I have to tweak some item in service menu to get enhancement ? How do I do that ?

If you follow the tweaks they will turn off the detail enhancement when you reset Pro Mode.

SHF0 sets the frequency that the sharpness operates at. SHF0 is the highest frequency setting. Resulting in a more focused (less broad) sharpening.

You should do the tweaks on each resolution on the antenna input by tuning to a different station.

You cannot get enhancement without outlines on the Avia Sharpness pattern. That is how they enhance the picture. I would set the Sharpness setting to the value you prefer. You can also tinker with the Detail Enhancer and see what that does for you. I have no experience with that parameter when it is on. I prefer no ringing (outlines), but you may like a little.

Originally posted by barretto
Don't forget you can damage a plasma by burn-in. You can't on the LCD.

//robert

Alright. Make that the third one then!!

Originally posted by Villanman
If you expecting a perfect black screen on a Blank input with the lights out, I think you will be disappointed. I have yet to see a GWIII or XBR LCD-RP TV have perfect color uniformity under these circumstances. I live with this issue because my viewing habits don't consist of staring at a black blank input on the screen and it is not noticeable otherwise.

Villanman: So what ur saying is that even if I get an exchange of my 60'' XBR (that I mentioned in another thread of Green Tint/bleed: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=402698), I shall still see the green bleed? Whenever I am looking at black input? Does it not get worse with time?

Ok, the tech just left my house.

He connected his HD signal generator to component inputs and told me that it outputs 1080i signal.

He saw outlines in the color patterns and surprisingly not in the B&W patterns.

The outlines (looked like colors bars overlapping with each other) was 3-4 pixels wide and easily visible from the recommended viewing distance.

He tried playing around with the sharpness, picture and brightness and it did not affect the outlines.

His stand: This is normal. Even $20,000 plasmas have this and there is nothing that can be done about it.

He wanted to show a picture on the screen rather than a pattern and I was not able to show it to him since HD OTA transmission starts only after 8 really in the Bay Area.

On hearing HD OTA reception, he says, anything over antenna can show deteriorated picture if the signal is weak and is not a standard to go by. I told him that with HD OTA you either get a perfect picture or you dont, but you never get a deteriorated picture. But he disagreed with me.

I told him to just document what he saw in terms of the outlines - that he saw outlines that are 3-4 pixels wide and he thinks it is normal. He refused to do that. Said he will just say that there is "some" blurrieness.

I asked him to connect his signal generator again and showed him that the outlines were NOT blurry but sharp. Then he relented and said that he will say there is "some" overlap. Disconnected signal generator. I pushed him to quantify the overlap in terms of pixels and he refused.

After lot of arguments, he said: I will say there is about 1/8" overlap - just off the top of his head.

What do you do when service techs dont agree there is a problem and you are seeing one ?

-Kuntal

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
...What do you do when service techs dont agree there is a problem and you are seeing one ?

-Kuntal

You only have a few choices. Fix it yourself. Return the TV if it is in the return period. Call out a different tech. Complain to Sony. Sell the TV to someone else. Give your TV away to a charity and take the tax deduction. Give your TV to a friend or family member.

As for my green bleed issue, I have been offered an exchange for a new 60'' XBR that I am going to accept. I am hoping that the new TV shall not have this issue too.

He connected his HD signal generator to component inputs and told me that it outputs 1080i signal.

He saw outlines in the color patterns and surprisingly not in the B&W patterns.

The outlines (looked like colors bars overlapping with each other) was 3-4 pixels wide and easily visible from the recommended viewing distance.


I believe the outlines you are seeing in the color bars MAY be normal. I have been told this has to do with how the color portion of the signal is encoded in digital. I would suggest that you go to a Circuit City and try to catch the test patterns that HDNet broadcasts periodically, so that you may compare how they look on various sets, including CRT, RP, LCD, Plasma, etc., and so you can compare to your own set.

I don't have any source for a 1080i test pattern on my set at the moment, but I do remember seeing some overlap or ringing of the colors on the the color bars when I saw the pattern broadcast on HDNet at CC. This occurred on all the sets, but was less noticable on CRT based models, because the images on the CRTs were not as sharp, imo.

Originally posted by umr
You only have a few choices. Fix it yourself. Return the TV if it is in the return period. Call out a different tech. Complain to Sony. Sell the TV to someone else. Give your TV away to a charity and take the tax deduction. Give your TV to a friend or family member.

OK, not very good choices :-(

Even if I were to fix it myself, the issue has to a fixable problem at least. I dont even know if that is.

I guess I am going to call out a different tech or complain to sony.

I m thinking it wasnt worth buying the CC service plan for 600 bucks after all.

I wish someone more competent and knowledgeable can tell me that there is nothing wrong with the TV. The techs who were out here hardly knew what they were doing or saying. Makes it very difficult to trust their judgement.

kuntaldaftary,

I would not expect much from the techs on these more subtle issues. Your CC service plan probably would not have helped either.

I have been contacted by Sony here in the US on how they should set the GWII's up so I doubt they will be much help. Your expections and theirs are probably not the same.

Heck a friend of mine just calibrated a Qualia and was very disappointed with how poorly the panels were aligned in it. I don't think Sony had a fix and that thing is way north of $10,000.

Originally posted by Tigerriot

This is what made me originally consider the plasmas. You are not going to bring a plasma home and have to "accept" blotchy colors in a black screen. You aren't going to have to accept ghosting. Those are just the facts.


Think again. The service tech guy who came in today to check my set told me that he has seen 20000$ plasmas show much more poor performance and he considers even that to be normal.

I personally dont think this TV has too many issues. I am repenting sending back the first set over dead pixels. I would love nothing better than get that unit back at this point - except I dont know how it has been treated in the past one month that it has left my house.

-Kuntal

if you do decide that the TV does not hold up to your standard, then definitely send the TV back FOR A REFUND. DONT EVER GET IT EXCHANGED for a new unit !



Originally posted by Tigerriot
Do I expect "PERFECTION"? No.

Do I expect my $6000 tv to at least be able to display a perfectly black screen? Yes.


When you are spending $6000 on a television it should be pretty much perfect.


There is NO reason I should have to accept some blotchy colors on a black screen or ghosting of lines. Not for that kind of money.


You guys are scaring me again. :confused:

This is what made me originally consider the plasmas. You are not going to bring a plasma home and have to "accept" blotchy colors in a black screen. You aren't going to have to accept ghosting. Those are just the facts.


I just hope all is ok when I get my set or I will likely be getting plasma and calling it a day.

kuntaldaftary

Detective hat on.

So the tech used a signal generator for 1080i on component and you got the same thing using 480i/p (dvd player) on the same component input??

Villanman: So what ur saying is that even if I get an exchange of my 60'' XBR (that I mentioned in another thread of Green Tint/bleed: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...threadid=402698), I shall still see the green bleed? Whenever I am looking at black input? Does it not get worse with time?


As far as the color uniformity issue as far as I know it does not get worse.
I have had mine going on six months now and no problems of anything worsening.
Without seeing exactly how serious your problem is. I can't comment on it.
But don't be surprised if the exchanged set has a faint red,blue or green tint on a blank input on some part of the screen.
I had 2 GWIII's and the XBR I currently own all had a faint color tint on black while it was on a blank input whether it be blue red or green. And all were only really noticeable when the lights are out and on a blank input.
However after calibration with DVE it's hardly noticeable even on a blank input and it never effected anything I watched. Thats why I never had a problem with it. Plus ad the fact that it seemed to be a pretty common issue with all Sony LCD RP. If I ever saw green tint on anything I was watching that was supposed to be black, then I would have a problem with it.

Originally posted by JimP
kuntaldaftary

Detective hat on.

So the tech used a signal generator for 1080i on component and you got the same thing using 480i/p (dvd player) on the same component input??

JimP

Thanks for the continued interest :-)

The tech used signal generator that output 1080i according to him. But it was connected to component input. (I am not sure, but afaik, 1080i is not possible on component, so I am little skeptical).

He checked two types of patterns with the signal generator

- color bands similar to THX color/tint setup (http://www.thx.com/mod/techlib/tint.html). With this he and I saw 3-4 pixels wide overlap near the edges of color bands most significantly visible when dark color is next to a light color.

- then he checked black and white pattern somewhat similar to a cross hatch with white lines on black background and this output was practically perfect.

The stuff that I saw with the DVD player using AVIA was:

- black/white cross hatch with black lines on white background (opposite of what the tech checked) and i saw extreme ghosting like I had posted in photos earlier

- After the tech left, for the first time, I also checked inverse b/w cross hatch (white lines on black background) and found no ghosting - just like the tech saw.

My reasoning now is that the ghost outlines are faint enough to not be visible through the surrounding dark black background but pop out easily in inverse video where we have white background and black lines.

I guess, I should have insisted the tech to check black lines on white background with his signal generator - but judging by his temperament I think he would have seen the outlines with his signal generator and still said "its within factory spec".

It seems like "within factory spec" is the magic phrase for this service tech - one cure to all problems !

-Kuntal

Originally posted by JimP
kuntaldaftary

Detective hat on.

So the tech used a signal generator for 1080i on component and you got the same thing using 480i/p (dvd player) on the same component input??

JimP

Thanks for the continued interest :-)

The tech used signal generator that output 1080i according to him. But it was connected to component input. (I am not sure, but afaik, 1080i is not possible on component, so I am little skeptical).

He checked two types of patterns with the signal generator

- color bands similar to THX color/tint setup (http://www.thx.com/mod/techlib/tint.html). With this he and I saw 3-4 pixels wide overlap near the edges of color bands most significantly visible when dark color is next to a light color.

- then he checked black and white pattern somewhat similar to a cross hatch with white lines on black background and this output was practically perfect.

The stuff that I saw with the DVD player using AVIA was:

- black/white cross hatch with black lines on white background (opposite of what the tech checked) and i saw extreme ghosting like I had posted in photos earlier

- After the tech left, for the first time, I also checked inverse b/w cross hatch (white lines on black background) and found no ghosting - just like the tech saw.

My reasoning now is that the ghost outlines are faint enough to not be visible through the surrounding dark black background but pop out easily in inverse video where we have white background and black lines.

I guess, I should have insisted the tech to check black lines on white background with his signal generator - but judging by his temperament I think he would have seen the outlines with his signal generator and still said "its within factory spec".

It seems like "within factory spec" is the magic phrase for this service tech - one cure to all problems ! He gets his money from CC - why should he piss off CC who is bringing him business. Better to piss off the customer who is not paying him anyway.

-Kuntal

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
JimP

He checked two types of patterns with the signal generator

- color bands similar to THX color/tint setup (http://www.thx.com/mod/techlib/tint.html). With this he and I saw 3-4 pixels wide overlap near the edges of color bands most significantly visible when dark color is next to a light color.

- then he checked black and white pattern somewhat similar to a cross hatch with white lines on black background and this output was practically perfect.

The stuff that I saw with the DVD player using AVIA was:

- black/white cross hatch with black lines on white background (opposite of what the tech checked) and i saw extreme ghosting like I had posted in photos earlier




I'll see if I can recreate what you're gettin on my set. The colors overlapping sounds a little like CY timing. I'll experiment with the CY delay in my DVD player (yes, its adjustable) to see if the overlap resembles what you're getting.

By the way, you can get 1080i on component input with the GWIII. The XBR is probably the same.

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
OK, not very good choices :-(

Even if I were to fix it myself, the issue has to a fixable problem at least. I dont even know if that is.

I guess I am going to call out a different tech or complain to sony.

I m thinking it wasnt worth buying the CC service plan for 600 bucks after all.

I wish someone more competent and knowledgeable can tell me that there is nothing wrong with the TV. The techs who were out here hardly knew what they were doing or saying. Makes it very difficult to trust their judgement.

Kuntal: How long have you bought the TV for. Man I feel bad.

Originally posted by Villanman
As far as the color uniformity issue as far as I know it does not get worse.
I have had mine going on six months now and no problems of anything worsening.
Without seeing exactly how serious your problem is. I can't comment on it.
But don't be surprised if the exchanged set has a faint red,blue or green tint on a blank input on some part of the screen.
I had 2 GWIII's and the XBR I currently own all had a faint color tint on black while it was on a blank input whether it be blue red or green. And all were only really noticeable when the lights are out and on a blank input.
However after calibration with DVE it's hardly noticeable even on a blank input and it never effected anything I watched. Thats why I never had a problem with it. Plus ad the fact that it seemed to be a pretty common issue with all Sony LCD RP. If I ever saw green tint on anything I was watching that was supposed to be black, then I would have a problem with it.

Alright, this is not such a great news. They called me yesterday and said that since u are dissatisfied, we shall order an exchange for you. What I am thinking is that I shall let them go ahead with it and then when it comes, I shall test the new TV and whichever one looks good, I shall keep that one. How about that? My question is if I would see this bleed/color issue as soon as I turn the new TV own the first time?? Hope it does not happen over days/time. What do u say?

Second question is whether you recommend me buying the Avia or DVE disk and callibrating this TV before I get the replacement. And yes I do not see the issue when I am watching a movie.

Is there anyone out there who has NOT see this issue with their XBR or had the issue and the replacement does not (coz then u wud know what exactly to look out for)?

How can I test for Ghosting so that I make sure that while current TV does not have Ghosting, the new one also does not. Or some other known issues with the XBR.

Thanks a ton....know its a lot of questions.

mallu2u

Most stores are ok with taking a TV back as long as it is within the first 30 days of the purchase - THE DATE OF THE FIRST ORIGINAL PURCHASE - not the second date second tv was delivered. You can confirm this with your store.

I got screwed over because I was misled by CC sales mgr who told me that CC starts the countdown for 30 days all over again when the second TV is delivered. Which was untrue and CC refused to any such policy when the I approached them.

If you are chancing running over 30 days (due to back order or whatever) then make sure you understand the return policy, get it in writing from them. They might already have a standard printout. Make sure you understand what it says. If something is ambiguously worded then clarify with the store mgr and get the clarification in writing.

This is what I am going to do from now on and hence this is my advice. Other folks may advise differently based on their experiences.

I am very convinced that all the issues I am seeing were there right from the start. But I happened to run into them only after some time as I played around with the settings. One other limitation in my case was that I get to watch HD only in the night OTA since I dont have cable or satellite HD. That also limited the chances of me finding the problem. Another thing that happened was, while I was not happy with picture quality in general, I could not put my finger on what was causing the bad quality. First I thought it was noise, then I thought lack of sharpness, then I thought too much sharpness = and under the impression that I have a whole new 30 days, I was a little lax in debugging the issue at one or two long sittings.

If you are diligent enough and have the requisite HD source, you can sit through and go through all the checks that you know about for this model in the first couple of days itself, I would definitely advise you to do that.

I havent used DVE so cannot compare it to AVIA.

As far as ghosting goes, umr is absolutely right that all TVs will show some ghosting with misconfigured settings (well, some settings). Even my older TV (which I am sorely missing now) had ghosting when sharpness was set to max. The problem with this TV is that, the range of sharpness setting for which there is negligible ghosting is extremely narrow leaving me no room for any sharpness adjustment. There is just one sweet spot on sharpness setting where I have viewable picture.

As far as picture goes, ghosting is fairly difficult to discern except in titles, and letters with sharp edges. Just that the picture looks really really blurry. A lot of it also depends on personal preferences and your eyes. Sharpness is super-sacred to me in PQ - which is why I have such difficulty in accepting the condition. For some others, it might be color while color is the last thing on my list. I probably cannot even see the red push and other things that folks discuss on this forum.

I havent tried the tweaks like umr documented. I have just used his derived values and plugged them in directly. They worked wonders on my first set (and I suppose they work for most of the sets directly) but for my second set they dont work off the bat and I need to derive my own numbers. I am guessing (hoping, rather) that once I do that, I will get what I was looking for in terms of sharpness, clarity and resolution in PQ.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Alright, this is not such a great news. They called me yesterday and said that since u are dissatisfied, we shall order an exchange for you. What I am thinking is that I shall let them go ahead with it and then when it comes, I shall test the new TV and whichever one looks good, I shall keep that one. How about that? My question is if I would see this bleed/color issue as soon as I turn the new TV own the first time?? Hope it does not happen over days/time. What do u say?

Second question is whether you recommend me buying the Avia or DVE disk and callibrating this TV before I get the replacement. And yes I do not see the issue when I am watching a movie.

Is there anyone out there who has NOT see this issue with their XBR or had the issue and the replacement does not (coz then u wud know what exactly to look out for)?

How can I test for Ghosting so that I make sure that while current TV does not have Ghosting, the new one also does not. Or some other known issues with the XBR.

Thanks a ton....know its a lot of questions.

Alright, this is not such a great news. They called me yesterday and said that since u are dissatisfied, we shall order an exchange for you. What I am thinking is that I shall let them go ahead with it and then when it comes, I shall test the new TV and whichever one looks good, I shall keep that one. How about that? My question is if I would see this bleed/color issue as soon as I turn the new TV own the first time?? Hope it does not happen over days/time. What do u say?

Since you have a new one coming out i would definately keep the best of the 2.
Yes you should see the color uniformity issue the first time. I don't believe this issue to be one that gets worse. If anything it seems less noticable since I first got it. But I think thats because i don't look for it anymore and just enjoy the TV.

how about ghosting?

Originally posted by caveatguy
--------I couldn’t be happier w/ my 70 xbr (which cost about the same as your 50 plasma but is 60% larger in screen size). Unfortunately for you, I believe Costco’s return policy will be amended as it was with computers last November (which shortened the return period to 6 months). I can’t see someone returning a 6K tv 2 years later because of product issues. If everyone abuses the return policy as you are implying you will, they will limit the return policy to the one year manu warrenty or less.

WAKE UP MAN! Your comparing a much smaller plasma to the top of the line xbr (and inferior we610 series). You also just spent $6K on a Maxent!
I’ll take a Sony any day over a Maxent…which as far as I know could have been making finger nail clippers last year before they announced their “entry” into the plasma space.


Hmmm. Interesting comparison.... Maxent who?

Caveatguy, "ditto" on the 70xbr pleased factor! As for the bulb factor, when the bulb needs replacing on my set, I am ready to just pop in the new replacement bulb(5 mins. tops), and resume my viewing as opposed to sending in an entire plasma set or having it in home serviced, downtime etc. when the screen goes palsma-blank. I also find it hard to believe that Costco would take a 70xbr back after 2 years of use, especially if nothing is wrong with the TV. That's better than the original manufacturers warranty combined with a purchased extended warranty plan. It seems that Costco would be the only place people should buy their merchandise??? Another Hmmmm... Seeing as the Maxent was chosen over the 70xbr, that means that there is another 70xbr out there for some lucky individual to purchase! Oh and by the way, I have been looking for a top notch manufacturer of finger nail clippers too, thanks for the tip!

Have any of you guys got dust streaks under the screen saver? I saw a thread on this forum before, but could not find it. I had this problem at the top of my screen. I looked like a very fine line about 2 inches long and was made of dust. I thought it was a bad seal that held the screen saver on, but it was coming from the inside of the TV. I had sony fix it under warranty, but it was a big repair. They had to take off a lot of pieces to fix this and remove the cover to clean it. I asked him how to fix it so it did not happen again and they said there is nothing they can do. He said sony does know about this problem, but has not had a fix for it. Not a big deal, but scares me that they had to take apart my tv to fix this.

Thanks,

Chad

Ok, I'm looking for some clarification and help with all these picture formats of interlaced and progressive scan rates that are available on all these new tv sets, especially these xbr950 sets, in this fast paced video technology world we live in... Hope these questions don't sound like some lame simpleton newbie questions, but for me it gets overwhelming for the most part, but yet I have some understanding with it, just want to get it straight once and for all. Kind of like what I had to do to get all my aspect ratios in check between anamorphic 2.35:1 or 1.85:1, pan and scan etc... So here goes:

Is there a way of bringing up a display that tells you what format you are viewing/looking at? Such as the High def content, how can you tell if you are viewing it at 1080i, or 720p, or 1080p, 480p and so on? As I look at UMR's SM-tweaks, there is reference to "If you are in 480p mode, then perform..." or it may say "Set your signal to 1080i and perform the..." and so on, how do I get these scan rates on screen to do what I need to do?

I have component hookup from my Pioneer Elite DVD and selected progressive from the Pioneer setup-menu during DVD playback. What scan rate am I getting/viewing? I also have an option to plug in an HDMI to DVI cable to the 70xbr from my Elite to obtain optimal video quality, but have not done so yet. What resolution/ scan rate will the Sony output? I also read, on this xbr thread that the Component circuitry is simply parralled with the DVI connector circuitry in these XBR's, which in turn will give the same PQ. I don't know if I believe in that one. Doesn't seem they would have engineered these interfaces to do identical output.

Next, I have my Time Warner HD-DVR connected to the XBR via Component also, and when I switch from SD to HD channels, I see a momentary 480p to 1080i display on screen respectively. So that is obviously straight forward, but I would still like to see what the resolution is by menu or display or any other means while viewing. The DVI to DVI interface does NOT work with the Time Warner cable box to TV because their engineers are dragging their feet to get it activated or to even work for that matter. How do I get the set to go into or get 1080p or 780p etc. I also thought that the (p)progressive is the preferred format over the (i)interlaced format?? Please help or advise, thanks... :confused: :confused: :confused:

Originally posted by hd_axel
...
Is there a way of bringing up a display that tells you what format you are viewing/looking at? Such as the High def content, how can you tell if you are viewing it at 1080i, or 720p, or 1080p, 480p and so on? As I look at UMR's SM-tweaks, there is reference to "If you are in 480p mode, then perform..." or it may say "Set your signal to 1080i and perform the..." and so on, how do I get these scan rates on screen to do what I need to do?


The XBR950 TV is always displaying your images at 788p. This is the native format for the TV. It will take whatever source format you give it and then up (or down) convert it to 788p.

Your input sources could be 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Depends on the box. For example, progressive scan DVD players have the ability to produce output at 480i or 480p. So... if you want to see what the tweaks do for a specific input, you'll have to perform the tweaks while the DVD player is producing 480i output (which would be an input to your TV) and then again when the DVD player is set to output 480p.

//robert

hd_axel,

The set will not go in 1080p mode.

To get a specific resolution you either must tune the internal tuner to a channel that broadcasts in that resolution or use your external box with those channels or set its output to that resolution.

CBS, NBC, PBS, UPN, WB - 1080i
ABC, FOX - 720p

When you are in the service menu it will show you the signal type (480i/p, 720p or 1080i) in the upper right corner of the screen.

Hi UMR

I finally did the tweaks today. I got the "attack of the clones" from Blockbuster for THX optimizer.

THX sweep pattern seems to be much finer than AVIA's.

What I saw is that with Detail Enhancer set to Low, Med, High - I got some uneven freqency response in high frequencies. No amount of change in USHP got rid of the uneven behavior.

Are these TVs capable of providing even frequency response at all with detail enhancer ON ?

-Kuntal

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
...Are these TVs capable of providing even frequency response at all with detail enhancer ON ?

-Kuntal

Not likely.

Hi all,

I have heard that sometimes film grain is deliberately added to content for a realistic effect.

But I am seriously bothered by it.

Will NR in user menu reduce the noise ?

I tried various NR settings and it made no difference on my TV. And I am not sure if this noise cannot be reduced or my NR is not working.

-Kuntal

kuntaldaftary,

The best way to eliminate the grain would be to filter the signal. The MID5 values in the SM tweaks do that. That will reduce the sharpness of the image. I would suggest you get a lesser quality and smaller display if you don't want to see what is present in the source.

... or wait a few years as the aging process will take care of that. ;)

Originally posted by JimP
... or wait a few years as the aging process will take care of that. ;)

my age or tv's age ? :-)

What I really want to do is test if NR in user menu is working. It makes absolutely no difference in the noise grains that I saw with Law and Order and CSI: Miami that I saw today evening (Thursday).

After agonizing over this for the past 1 week - I am going to propose to the store manager to let me have my old TV back - the first one I had sent back.

Apparently they have put it on display in the shop since I returned it.

I guess the downside is that they have been running that set 10 hours a day for the past one week and it has fingerprint smudges on the screen. People might have fiddled with it but that is less likely since the store did NOT put the remote for the TV on display.

Are there other downsides to getting a TV thats been on display ?

-Kuntal

kuntal

That's only 70 hours use, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much.

I'd see if the store wouldn't get you another set first. If they don't go for that, ask for your other one back.

As to the age thing, I'm mostly referring to our eye sight. lol

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
mallu2u

Most stores are ok with taking a TV back as long as it is within the first 30 days of the purchase - THE DATE OF THE FIRST ORIGINAL PURCHASE - not the second date second tv was delivered. You can confirm this with your store.

I got screwed over because I was misled by CC sales mgr who told me that CC starts the countdown for 30 days all over again when the second TV is delivered. Which was untrue and CC refused to any such policy when the I approached them.

If you are chancing running over 30 days (due to back order or whatever) then make sure you understand the return policy, get it in writing from them. They might already have a standard printout. Make sure you understand what it says. If something is ambiguously worded then clarify with the store mgr and get the clarification in writing.

This is what I am going to do from now on and hence this is my advice. Other folks may advise differently based on their experiences.

I am very convinced that all the issues I am seeing were there right from the start. But I happened to run into them only after some time as I played around with the settings. One other limitation in my case was that I get to watch HD only in the night OTA since I dont have cable or satellite HD. That also limited the chances of me finding the problem. Another thing that happened was, while I was not happy with picture quality in general, I could not put my finger on what was causing the bad quality. First I thought it was noise, then I thought lack of sharpness, then I thought too much sharpness = and under the impression that I have a whole new 30 days, I was a little lax in debugging the issue at one or two long sittings.

If you are diligent enough and have the requisite HD source, you can sit through and go through all the checks that you know about for this model in the first couple of days itself, I would definitely advise you to do that.

I havent used DVE so cannot compare it to AVIA.

As far as ghosting goes, umr is absolutely right that all TVs will show some ghosting with misconfigured settings (well, some settings). Even my older TV (which I am sorely missing now) had ghosting when sharpness was set to max. The problem with this TV is that, the range of sharpness setting for which there is negligible ghosting is extremely narrow leaving me no room for any sharpness adjustment. There is just one sweet spot on sharpness setting where I have viewable picture.

As far as picture goes, ghosting is fairly difficult to discern except in titles, and letters with sharp edges. Just that the picture looks really really blurry. A lot of it also depends on personal preferences and your eyes. Sharpness is super-sacred to me in PQ - which is why I have such difficulty in accepting the condition. For some others, it might be color while color is the last thing on my list. I probably cannot even see the red push and other things that folks discuss on this forum.

I havent tried the tweaks like umr documented. I have just used his derived values and plugged them in directly. They worked wonders on my first set (and I suppose they work for most of the sets directly) but for my second set they dont work off the bat and I need to derive my own numbers. I am guessing (hoping, rather) that once I do that, I will get what I was looking for in terms of sharpness, clarity and resolution in PQ.

Thanks for your explainations kuntaldaftary. I really do appreciate that. I am well beyond the 30 days return policy and am not even thinking of returning the TV right now. I like the TV and therefore am expecting to get an exchange with resolves the issue that I see. I shall get the new TV, compare the two and keep the one that does not have the issue. As for calibration DVD, did you like Avia? More importantly, do you understand it and did it help you?

It seems like the only way to keep the 30 day return policy alive is to finalize each and every purchase and return. If a set does not work out, return it and get your money back. End of transaction #1. Depending on how that goes, you might want to buy another set, with a brand new 30 day return option, from the same dealer. If the dealer says "huh", explain that his "non-start" of a new 30 day return option is the reason behind your machinations.

Originally posted by mallu2u
Thanks for your explainations kuntaldaftary. I really do appreciate that. I am well beyond the 30 days return policy and am not even thinking of returning the TV right now. I like the TV and therefore am expecting to get an exchange with resolves the issue that I see. I shall get the new TV, compare the two and keep the one that does not have the issue. As for calibration DVD, did you like Avia? More importantly, do you understand it and did it help you?

I did like AVIA. It does walk you through the basic video adjustments using the video patterns and explains what you should look for and how you should adjust (till you see this bar disappear, and that bar appear, etc.)

One thing I liked about the THX optimizer pattern (in any THX certified DVD) is that the frequency sweep pattern (that allows you to adjust frequency response) is much finer in THX than AVIA. My TV responds just fine to the AVIA pattern since it wasnt taxing enough on my TV. But the THX pattern showed some uneven freq response in extremely high frequencies which AVIA did not pick out.

What does THX optimizer control- both audio and video or just audio? Which movies have this option. I shall try it out.

Originally posted by mallu2u
What does THX optimizer control- both audio and video or just audio? Which movies have this option. I shall try it out.

audio video both, tho i used video only. any thx certified movie dvd has it. i used "attack of the clones".

Originally posted by barretto
The XBR950 TV is always displaying your images at 788p. This is the native format for the TV. It will take whatever source format you give it and then up (or down) convert it to 788p.

Your input sources could be 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Depends on the box. For example, progressive scan DVD players have the ability to produce output at 480i or 480p. So... if you want to see what the tweaks do for a specific input, you'll have to perform the tweaks while the DVD player is producing 480i output (which would be an input to your TV) and then again when the DVD player is set to output 480p.

//robert

Thanks Robert!

I was not aware that these 950xbr sets display all content at 788p. So, if I am viewing/getting a signal from Time Warner on my HD band/channels(800's), that displays the 1080i logo momentarily, such as HD_Discovery, then the xbr950 is down converting that 1080i to 788p? I was under the impression that 1080i is a better PQ than 788p. Can the native format be overridden to view at 1080i? Does the (p) format produce better quality, resolution, detail, colors etc. than the (i) format? I notice immediately that 1080i is far superior to 480p, so why would I want to down convert 1080i to 788p? It seems so bass ackwards...

I have a bit of knowledge with audio and video electronics, and I don't know why the industry has made such a complicated mess of the video formats. How in the world does a simple person wanting to buy a TV and Audio system put their system together these days from a Best Buy or wherever, and even have a clue to what they are doing in hook-up, viewing, and most importantly select the features for optimal viewing and listening pleasure? Man, what a nightmare, it would be so nice to get some kind of standardized language established for all to understand and enjoy!

There, I feel better now. Anyway, regarding DVD players, yes I have a progressive scan unit, a $1K Pioneer Elite that allows me to select "Progressive" or "Interlaced" on my user menu. However after I select the format, it does not tell me what "Number(p)" or "Number(i)" I am viewing or what the player has upconverted/downconverted the signal to while I'm watching a disc. I can display a discs bit rate and a bunch of other ueseless data from my menu, but not the resolution or converted info. etc. that is need to see...

Bottom line, my eyes basically tell it all. When viewing the 800 HD band of Time Warners channels there is a noticeable difference in the video compared to the 100's, 200's to 500's etc. Whether I am in 1080i or 480p or converted up or down to 788i/p, clearer is clearer. There are times when I switch between HBO or SHOWTIME (SD) or HBO or SHOWTIME (HD) and there is a noticable difference in the PQ, and other times it is difficult to tell. I guess this is due to the age of the film and the equipment used during filming, ie. recent era 2000's compared to films from the 70's or 80's etc. An example of this could be Matrix Revolutions (SD) on HBO compared to the same in (HD) on the 800 band has a slight difference in PQ.

If what you say is true about a DVD player converting only 480i/p formats, then why does a 480p signal from my cable company look so putrid compared to a 480p signal on my DVD? The Time Warner PQ is so grainy that I rather watch a copy of of a copy of a vhs tape, if you know what I mean.... Again, it's so darn confusing and NOT a Standard, 480p is not 480p on all content??? DVD's basically all look the same depending on the quality of how it was originally filmed/mastered.

Sorry for such a long post, but hope others may share the same sentiment.

Originally posted by umr
hd_axel,

The set will not go in 1080p mode.

To get a specific resolution you either must tune the internal tuner to a channel that broadcasts in that resolution or use your external box with those channels or set its output to that resolution.

CBS, NBC, PBS, UPN, WB - 1080i
ABC, FOX - 720p

When you are in the service menu it will show you the signal type (480i/p, 720p or 1080i) in the upper right corner of the screen.

Thanks UMR,

I have just recently seen some discussion on the 1080p format. I am not at-all familiar with it or the PQ exhibited by that format, but would assume it is very clear and sharp. Where does the 1080p come into play? Would it be with the release of High Def. DVD's? Is it HDMI circuitry?

As for CBS, NBC, PBS, UPN, WB - 1080i, and ABC, FOX - 720p I was not aware of the XBR950 converting to these resolutions. In my area the only HD OTA I get with the built in tuner is ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS. So am I getting ABC in 720p and is that better than the 1080i content for PQ?

As for the service menu, I have not yet ventured into that area due to "Not Enough Hours In A Day", but I look forward to the day to implement your tweak parameters, and am glad to know the signal types will be displayed on screen. So I guess then that there is no way of having the signal type displayed during normal viewing outside of being in service mode?

Thanks!

I was not aware that these 950xbr sets display all content at 788p. So, if I am viewing/getting a signal from Time Warner on my HD band/channels(800's), that displays the 1080i logo momentarily, such as HD_Discovery, then the xbr950 is down converting that 1080i to 788p? I was under the impression that 1080i is a better PQ than 788p. Can the native format be overridden to view at 1080i? Does the (p) format produce better quality, resolution, detail, colors etc. than the (i) format? I notice immediately that 1080i is far superior to 480p, so why would I want to down convert 1080i to 788p? It seems so bass ackwards...

All HD display devices generally display in one set resolution. Period. In our case that is 788P. Most cheaper HD-Ready tv's do 1080i because it is cheaper to do so. The tv's don't have to built to the higher technological requirement 720P requires. Nearly half the bandwidth of 720P, 1080i is sometimes said to display sports better but most videophiles prefer 720P which use a method of scanning called "progressive" scan to produce a flicker-free image, making text easier to read and fast-motion video appear smoother. Progressive scan means that all 1 million pixels on a HD screen are refreshed simultaneously unlike analog TVs with "interlaced" scan. Interlaced scanning refreshes pixels in alternations - first the odd lines, then the even lines. As a result, only half the pixels on screen are showing at any given moment. 1080i which is acknowledged as a HD format is still interlaced video with only 540 lines refreshed at any given time.


I have a bit of knowledge with audio and video electronics, and I don't know why the industry has made such a complicated mess of the video formats. How in the world does a simple person wanting to buy a TV and Audio system put their system together these days from a Best Buy or wherever, and even have a clue to what they are doing in hook-up, viewing, and most importantly select the features for optimal viewing and listening pleasure? Man, what a nightmare, it would be so nice to get some kind of standardized language established for all to understand and enjoy!

First of all don't beleive anything those hacks at Circuit City or Best Buy tell you, they want to sell you what they have that they think you need, not what is neccessarily best for you.
It's just a matter of understanding the formats:
HDTV is the richest pixel format available, with a minimum resolution of 1280 x 720 pixels progressive scan (720p) or 1920 x 1080 pixels interlaced (1080). An HDTV image can contain more than 1,000,000 active pixels at any one time - that translates to a picture that is even more robust than a DVD image!

Traditional Analog TV - 525 Scan lines
(also known as 480i - 55 lines overscan allowing the tv to reset & draw again)
Computer Monitor - 800 x 600 Pixels +
HDTV - 1280 x 720p Pixels to
1920 x 1080i Pixels

The cheapest HDTV's do 1080i native display, whereas if you look around a 720P display will command a premium.

There, I feel better now. Anyway, regarding DVD players, yes I have a progressive scan unit, a $1K Pioneer Elite that allows me to select "Progressive" or "Interlaced" on my user menu. However after I select the format, it does not tell me what "Number(p)" or "Number(i)" I am viewing or what the player has upconverted/downconverted the signal to while I'm watching a disc. I can display a discs bit rate and a bunch of other ueseless data from my menu, but not the resolution or converted info. etc. that is need to see...

Your unit is likely putting out 480p but that's it. Very few units upscale the output to 780p or 1080i. Regardless from my understanding all DVD stuff by nature is not as high quality as true hdtv resolutions.

Bottom line, my eyes basically tell it all. When viewing the 800 HD band of Time Warners channels there is a noticeable difference in the video compared to the 100's, 200's to 500's etc. Whether I am in 1080i or 480p or converted up or down to 788i/p, clearer is clearer. There are times when I switch between HBO or SHOWTIME (SD) or HBO or SHOWTIME (HD) and there is a noticable difference in the PQ, and other times it is difficult to tell. I guess this is due to the age of the film and the equipment used during filming, ie. recent era 2000's compared to films from the 70's or 80's etc. An example of this could be Matrix Revolutions (SD) on HBO compared to the same in (HD) on the 800 band has a slight difference in PQ.

If what you say is true about a DVD player converting only 480i/p formats, then why does a 480p signal from my cable company look so putrid compared to a 480p signal on my DVD? The Time Warner PQ is so grainy that I rather watch a copy of of a copy of a vhs tape, if you know what I mean.... Again, it's so darn confusing and NOT a Standard, 480p is not 480p on all content??? DVD's basically all look the same depending on the quality of how it was originally filmed/mastered.

Sorry for such a long post, but hope others may share the same sentiment.

The original source and whatever the broadcast company encodes it as will always be a factor. If you start out with a crappy program then no matter what you send it in (480p, 1080i or 720p) it will always look bad. Time Warenr is not my favorite anyway, they compress their signals on certain channels more than others and it's always a grab bag. OTA stations generally send out in the format they had it provided to them in from what a few local engineers told me. All they do is splice in the commercials. Your comparision of Matrix Revolutions (SD) on HBO compared to the same in (HD) on the 800 band should show a HUGE difference in quality. But thats Time Warner and I'm not surprised.:rolleyes:

In a nutshell, research the different variations of Standard and High Defiinitions and once you understand those you are better armed to withstand the hype and other BS the Circuit Citys and Best Buys will throw at you. What I've said here just scratches the surface. Read, buy a few HD, home theater magazines and read some more.

Originally posted by hd_axel
Thanks UMR,

I have just recently seen some discussion on the 1080p format. I am not at-all familiar with it or the PQ exhibited by that format, but would assume it is very clear and sharp. Where does the 1080p come into play? Would it be with the release of High Def. DVD's? Is it HDMI circuitry?

As for CBS, NBC, PBS, UPN, WB - 1080i, and ABC, FOX - 720p I was not aware of the XBR950 converting to these resolutions. In my area the only HD OTA I get with the built in tuner is ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS. So am I getting ABC in 720p and is that better than the 1080i content for PQ?

As for the service menu, I have not yet ventured into that area due to "Not Enough Hours In A Day", but I look forward to the day to implement your tweak parameters, and am glad to know the signal types will be displayed on screen. So I guess then that there is no way of having the signal type displayed during normal viewing outside of being in service mode?

Thanks!

1080p does not come into play with any source material that the vast majority of people have available. A few devices are capable of displaying 1080p sources if they become available, but I doubt we will see any from OTA, cable or DBS in the near future. Some people are looking for displays that are capable of converting film sourced 1080i to 1080p, but few can do it. It may make a difference, but we are getting into the relm of diminishing returns. This is especially true with RPTV's. Large FP systems would benefit much more from this.

The big problem with 1080i is its compatibility with current MPEG compression and bandwidth. 1080i on D-Theater looks very good, but OTA can look very poor when motion becomes a factor.

Your TV is not converting to those resolutions. It is converting from them to 788p. 1080i can be better and worse that 720p it depends on how much motion is in the subject and available bandwidth. Upstream issues associated with the production equipment can also effect performance. Filtering is pretty common on 1080i for example.

There are ways to display the signal type outside of the service menu, but you don't happen to be using devices that do. My LG LST-3410A does this.

I'am new to this forum so be nice. My Hitachi 57"XWX recently died after a year and ahalf of faithful service and thank god for the CC warranty - I get all my money back toward a new set - I can go shopping again!! The best set CC now has is the 60XBR950. So, questions are:

1. Does the DVI connection stay digital all thru the set? I've heard it both ways.

2. Does the set lose its contrast over time?

3. Does the set need ISF'ed as my Hitachi did?

4. How bad is regular digital cable?

5. How does this set react to DVI from either DVD or Dish 811?

Should trade or wait?

That is it for now - Thanks for your help

fmrbmw,

1. It cannot stay digital through the whole set because the panels are driven analog. I believe this set is digital until the panels based on schematics I have seen.

2. No.

3. Yes if cannot do the UMR Does GWIII XBR & WE tweaks yourself.

4. I would rate it as very good.

5. No info on 811 performance. DVI from a DVD player can be very good or poor depending on the player.

I would not wait unless you want the cable card feature of the next generation sets.

Well, I took delivery of my 60" XBR950 on Friday afternoon.

I was very worried about this tv and it's various potential for problems out of the box. So, after 48 hours of time with it here is what i've found.

The first thing I looked at was the geometry and it was pretty darn good. Not perfect but close. So, that passed my test. :) The second thing was the color bleed or botchiness that some people have found on their sets. Upon my first check I noticed nothing and I quickly forgot about and figured my set was perfect. :) Well, later that night I was watching Episode 2 on the tv and I quickly noticed a problem. The top right corner has a green haze to it. So does the bottom left corner! :confused: Then, I turn off the movie and I noticed a faint red circle about 2 inches round near the middle of the screen! :mad: So, at this point I realize this set is going back.

Upon further viewing I even noticed the green haze in dark scenes of movies! It does become noticable durign movies! I have a feeling all these people who claim the colors don't impede on their viewing are just ignoring them because I noticed it during films. I also noticed the red circle during darker scenes.

None of this was blatantly in your face and frankly all of my friends who were over on Saturday night watching a movie didn't notice it. They did once I pointed it out to them though. ;)


So, I have not completely given up on the XBR 950 just yet. I talked to my salesman and he is exchanging the set for a new one on Tuesday. So, i'm giving the XBR 950 one last chance. I have serious questions about Sony's quality assurance department though. Between the problems with the WE610 and now even on their XBR sets this just makes me see Sony in a whole new negative light. It just seems like they want to let a lot of stuff slip out the door even though it shouldn't.

I can already say that I have serious doubts that the new set on Tuesday will be ok. It likely won't and i'm not in the mood to accept any noticable flaws on a $6000 tv. It just won't happen.

So, overall I like the tv a lot. It's got a great picture and movies looked wonderful on it. I just can't get over the consistant issues that Sony is having with these LCD projection tvs. If there are any problems with Tuesdays set i'll be getting a plasma for sure and it likely won't be a Sony plasma. :(

Originally posted by umr
You might as well not take delivery. No set is perfect. You will see uneven color and illumination with some test patterns. Ghosting will also be present unless you do the service menu tweaks.

Tigerriot,

You should save your dealer the trouble and bag the XBR950. Your desires and its capabilities are not a match.

Everything in electronics has It's pros & cons. They say sometimes when you gain something , you lose something. Every television will have its pros & cons. I would first do the UMR tweaks , then watch it for a week & get used to the optic's of this set. Thats why so many options in the user menu, we have so many source's going into the t.v.'s now than ever before.

I'm really shocked at the response i've seen on this thread over the past week. I basically get this vibe that i'm asking too much of this $6000 tv. My hopes for a perfectly uniform black screen are just too extreme and picky. :rolleyes: My hopes for a lack of ghosting are just too needy. :rolleyes: My hopes for a tv that lacks random circular patches of color is weird. :rolleyes:


You get my point. :rolleyes:

I can somewhat agree with you in that one expects great things from a 6K TV. I do see the green bleed issue with my TV but never on a DVD, even in dark scene. I am also going for an exchange and hoping even that goes away. Am keeping my fingers crossed over this one.
But I am in the same boat as urs. I would however say this: No TV would be perfect in all aspects. Even Samsung has a lot of issues. That said, I hope your exchange resolves your issue. I do believe Sony has one of the best pictures in the RP TVs.

My hopes for a perfectly uniform black screen are just too extreme and picky
Not picky,
Just not the right set to be hoping this on.

So, overall I like the tv a lot. It's got a great picture and movies looked wonderful on it. I just can't get over the consistant issues that Sony is having with these LCD projection tvs. If there are any problems with Tuesdays set i'll be getting a plasma for sure and it likely won't be a Sony plasma


Plan on getting that plasma.

My March build date 60"XBR950 continues to amaze me. I love this damn TV! No bulb problems...a perfectly acceptable geometry & no color issues. I've had the TV for about 2 months now.
That being said, a strange issue appeared 4 days ago that I am not all to sure is a result of the TV, but rather the Comcast feed. *note* This irregularity is ONLY seen on ABC.

Last Thursday I tuned into ABC's digital channel on Comcast & noticed what looks like (mind you I said "looks like", because I dont exactly know what one looks like) a dead pixel in the upper middle/left of the screen.
Its a tiny rectangular looking..ummm dead spot I guess you could call it. Easily noticeable with a light colored background. Not so easily seen with a darker background.
The next day another one appeared on the right side. Later that evening the channel went "off the air" ( all black) So I was assuming that Comcast might have been made aware of the issue & was working to resolve it. But when the channel reappeared the anomaly was still there. Again, let me state this is only on ABC. Thought it might be a 720p issue, but then remebered I have my STB set to 1080i for all channels.
So.......anyone else experience this before? Are these indeed dead pixels? Why am I only seeing them on an ABC broadcast?
Thanks

LOTR_GUY: I see that dead pixel as well and only on ABC. Should be at their end and not ours.

Originally posted by mallu2u
LOTR_GUY: I see that dead pixel as well and only on ABC. Should be at their end and not ours.

Thanks for the response mallu2u :cool: I can rest easy now that I know its not my Sony & hope Comcast will fix the issue with-in the next millenium :rolleyes:

umr - Thanks for your reply.I will probably wait til begin of june to see what else is coming out. Which DVI DVD works best with this set? If the tweaks are easy to do - I'll be fine.

fmrbmw,

I have not seen them all so I can't judge which would be the best DVI DVD player. I would not bother with one. I would get a Denon DVD-3800 with all the patches installed.

Originally posted by LOTR_GUY
Thanks for the response mallu2u :cool: I can rest easy now that I know its not my Sony & hope Comcast will fix the issue with-in the next millenium :rolleyes:

Why do u say comcast?

Originally posted by mallu2u
Why do u say comcast?

Well I figured it was Comcast causing the spots. Are you telling me you are seeing them OTA ? Do you not have Comcast? Now that we know its not a Sony issue, I dont want to get off topic here, let me know or just PM me.
Thanks,
Brian S

Just one line: See them on OTA only since for this TV, I only have OTA- indoor antenna. Therefore its ABC.

UMR and Driver,

Thanks for the detailed explanations to my inquiries on the scan rates and resolutions. It makes much more sense as to why the video looks the way it does in accordance to the source feeding the input. As for Time Warner cable, I am just taking advantage of a promotion they offered me for HD and the digital channels. Once the promotion ends, I am considering a lease program with VOOM and try their Va Va Voom package which has over 40 HD channels to view. Viewing 40 channels in 788p should be a treat!

Driver, I am aware that the PQ is only as good as the original source, and you are dead on about the compression that Time Warner does, but then again, I saw a lot of compression if not more with Direct-TV to the point I was so disgusted with the PQ that I cancelled my service. I now have 2 recievers collecting dust for over a year now.

It doesn't make sense to spend my hard earned money on an inferior compressed signal. I wouldn't even take it for free for that matter... What is the point of viewing compressed inferior signals on a High Definition set such as these XBR950's? They are choppy, jaggies all over the place, edge enhancement galore, pixilization and blurry images, just awfull! Might as well just turn on the ole' VCR and watch VHS. The SD content is tough to watch after watching the HD quality. I really love this 70 inch XBR...

On SD channels you will always see some blockiness or digital artifacts. After all they are feeding the satellite a digitally compressed signal. TW does it too. The trick is to use the BN Smoother and NR settings to minimize it out. Sure the picture will be softer but it helps some. The TW equipment from what I've seen may be softening it in their STB output and thus it makes you think it's 'better' PQ. When I had their digital recorder I noticed this to be true of that. If you use the free DirecTV receivers they give you when you sign up then you get what you pay for. You also MUST use S-Video or the component outputs to see what it is capable of and in some cases the DVI if you have it. Anybody using composite or coax inputs and complaining about PQ frankly should'nt even bother posting about it. Not that this applys to you, I just thought the obvious should be said.

I completed my exchange last night for a new 60" XBR950. The results were very good, but still not perfect. ;)


The delivery guys were very late and it was a pretty crazy night at my new house so unforunately I only got about 30 minutes with the tv for examination. :) However, the results of the exchange were very good overall.


First off, the geometry on my set is perfect. Literally, just about exact as far as I can tell. That was awesome news. Second, there were no circles of color or weird color issues immediately evident. However, I made sure ot leave the tv on for a couple hours and later in the evening I came back to it and made a further inspection of the color uniformity.

On a black screen I was noticing that the right side of the screen just seemed a bit lighter than the left. Then, on certain lighter scenes I sensed the differences on certain scenes with a blue sky. It seemed like the right side looked pure blue as it should but the left side always seemed to have a yellowish tinge to it. Like I said earlier, I didn't have tons of time for analysis and it could have been that I was seeing the sky the way it was suppose to look but it just seemed a little too consistant to be chance.


So, other than that problem I have zero complaints. It appears that I have got a near perfect XBR950 and for that I am a happy man. :D

I will have much more time tonight and later this week to really see if that blue sky problem I am having is real or just imagined. So, the jury is still out on that. If the problem is real though it could really become annoying. If the problem is real I would seriously consider doing a complete return for a plasma set.

I might just have to accept some small issues with this XBR950 in exchange for it's massive and beautiful performance. It's truly a sight to behold when watching good material on this tv. I was stunned when I got to watch the Yankees/Orioles game last night on InHD. It looked as good as I could possibly imagine an HD baseball game could look. So, I feel like it would be very hard for me to part with this tv and I doubt i'll find an XBR950 that performs better than the one I have right now. So, i'll just have to do a detailed examination and see what I find. I just may have found the perfect XBR950.

Tiger

Originally posted by Tigerriot
... I was stunned when I got to watch the Yankees/Orioles game last night on InHD. It looked as good as I could possible imagine an HD baseball game could look. ...

Would have been even better had the Orioles won! :D

Seriously though... I'm glad your happy with the new set. I know I've been very pleased with my 60XBR950 for about 4 weeks now... and I haven't even gone through UMR's great tweak procedures yet!

No dead pixels. No stuck pixels. No green color twinges on blank inputs. Geometry is flawless from what I can see. Image centering was off by one "unit" too far to the left, and was easily corrected using the normal setup menu (not from the service menu).

I'm a happy XBR owner!
//Robert

Well my 70XBR950 got fixed yesterday. After the third set of parts Sony shipped out, turned out it was a bad DIP(?) board. Gonna run through Avia and THX Optimizer and see how it looks.

Hope they got everything working for you. Its bad when things get by quality control. Did you ask if the bulb issue is all over. I wish they would of got all X.B.R. owners an extra bulb for standby. I had some local tv places said they thought they was going to do that. It might of been a sales pitch not knowing if I got one yet or not. So far all ok but did take longer one or two times to start up so I was wondering....

PS. In the good old day's they would send you Service Manuel along with user manuals for you to give to your Teck If he did not have one for your equipment or product, That is top of the line products like the X.B.R.....That was the good old day's in Electronics.

I've got a Service Manual and the User Manuals for it in PDFs._Too bad it's a 30 MB download. Unless you are a real tech the Svc Man isn't going to do you much good. Any authorized Sony tech can get them through the web.

Are they still using Phillips bulb or OSRAM bulb in the new XBR's? I have a 70xbr950 and the tech is coming to replace the bulb and I just want to make sure tey are replacing with the correct bulb...

ANy thoughts?

Thanks

One of the first things the tech did was replace the bulb and power supply. He told me this was the newest bulb Sony had for this model. I didn't ask him if it was Phillips or Osram. The guy didn't have a service manual for my model, all he had was notes from the tech at Sony.

Originally posted by swatter911
One of the first things the tech did was replace the bulb and power supply. He told me this was the newest bulb Sony had for this model. I didn't ask him if it was Phillips or Osram. The guy didn't have a service manual for my model, all he had was notes from the tech at Sony.

Press and open the lid that has the XBR logo on it, located at the bottom and center of the screen/pedestal. Once open, unscrew the balck screw located to the right of that compartment, pull it forward, and now you have access to the bulb assembly which is located to your far left of that compartment.

Simply pull the bulb assembly forward and out, (With the power off , of course), and look at the bulb and see what is stamped on it, ie. Phillips or Osram/Sylvania, it's that easy. The procedure takes 60 to 120 seconds tops!! Be sure to gently seat the bulb back into position after your observation and reverse the removal procedure and you will be back to watching TV in no time!:Taa Daa. :D

My question is,

SHould he replace with a Phillips bulb or OSRAM bulb? I heard from someone it is supposed to be OSRAM but when the tech came last time he brought with him a Phillips bulb. I asked him to call SOny and confirm and get me the correct bulb and the correct ballast.

THanks

has anyone tried viewing jpg pictures through their dvd player on the 60xbr950 ?

i tried that for the first time recently and was fairly pleased except that the pictures werent all that clear due to "resizing".

So, if anyone has more experience with this, what size pictures end up giving the best screen output even after resizing ? Would I be correct in assuming that if the picture is originally 788 high (and other dimension in proportion), that would be ideal ?

Hey kuntaldaftary,

Our 60XBR950 is frequently used to view our digital pictures with a PC hooked up to it. Images on a DVD are stored in 720x480 format . I view digital pictures at in 1920x1080i or 1280x720P and the results are stunning to say the least. Once you hook up a PC to the GWIII you will wonder why you waited so long. It really makes the XBR the Digital Entertainment Centerpiece of the house.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Originally posted by vidkidd
Hey kuntaldaftary,

Our 60XBR950 is frequently used to view our digital pictures with a PC hooked up to it. Images on a DVD are stored in 720x480 format . I view digital pictures at in 1920x1080i or 1280x720P and the results are stunning to say the least. Once you hook up a PC to the GWIII you will wonder why you waited so long. It really makes the XBR the Digital Entertainment Centerpiece of the house.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Dont understand this...If the picture is stored in 720/480, how come u see it in 1920/1080i? U mean from ur PC, u set the resolution to that and resize the image?
Thanks

One of the things I like really like about the XBR is the memory stick slot. We were thinking of getting a digital camera about the time we got the XBR, and so we got a Sony with the compatible memory stick. We can see our pictures by putting the stick into the TV. It even has a slide show feature with optional piano music playing. Does anyone else use this feature?

Used it a few times, but my dig cameras use compact flash so transferring from them to a memory stick just to view on the set isn't worth it in my case (plus I have a reg memory stick so read times are somewhat slow, not sure if "pro" version is faster or not).

I just save them to a samba share and view them using a modded xbox and xbox media center. Too bad Sony couldn't swallow some pride and just add a pcmcia slot like that on the Hitachi v500 series so you could use an adapter for reading most any type of media. If you got all Sony equipment, it may very well be useful to you.

Originally posted by vidkidd
Hey kuntaldaftary,

Our 60XBR950 is frequently used to view our digital pictures with a PC hooked up to it. Images on a DVD are stored in 720x480 format . I view digital pictures at in 1920x1080i or 1280x720P and the results are stunning to say the least. Once you hook up a PC to the GWIII you will wonder why you waited so long. It really makes the XBR the Digital Entertainment Centerpiece of the house.

Thx,
Vidkidd

I still need to try that...I have a nice amd xp 3200+, ati 980aiw waiting to do it, but I've survived just using a modded xbox and xbox media center. DVDs, divx, music, photos...it's all there. Any links to the latest thread on how to do would be appreciated (or I can waste a few hours searching, I know)...BTW, do you use DVI connection or component for HTPC to you XBR? I see that the ATI AIW has a component adapter as well as DVI output.

Originally posted by kuntaldaftary
has anyone tried viewing jpg pictures through their dvd player on the 60xbr950 ?

i tried that for the first time recently and was fairly pleased except that the pictures werent all that clear due to "resizing".

So, if anyone has more experience with this, what size pictures end up giving the best screen output even after resizing ? Would I be correct in assuming that if the picture is originally 788 high (and other dimension in proportion), that would be ideal ?

This past February, a group of my church friends and I had gone skiing in Banff in the Canadian Rocky's. Our pastor had used a digital camera and had taken around 300 pictures.

Upon our return, I hosted a party so we could exchange photos and eat(that's what we Baptist do.lol)

The digital pictures were on a CD that played well on my Denon 2900 (since upgraded to a 5900) and my 60" GWIII. Played Enyia music on a separate DVD player. Nice combo. The pictures looked great. Not sure about the resolution or file size nor best work flow to create the pictures you're looking for.

One of the many issues that you're going to have to deal with is in resizing a highly compressed photograph in jpeg format (a lossy format) you're going to loose resolution each time you resave the file. So its better to size it right to start with and not loose resolution.

One thing I do recall is that it seems that when each picture would begin to display, it would paint the picture larger than the actual screen then after it was done, would rescale it to fit the screen. Kinda sounds like the picture file was higher than 788 and the Sony scaler (the one built into the TV) was scaling it to refit the screen. Maybe similar to how it handles a 1080 i picture.

I'll see if I can fine out what megabit size the camera was recording and the actual jpeg dimensions.

I display my Digital Images using popular windows applications, like CompuPic Pro, etc. My digital library started with a Nikon Coolpix 950 (2.1MegaPixel) back in '99 which I upgraded last year to the Sony F727 (5.0 Mega Pixel) and all of the photos look flawless when displayed on the XBR.

Whether the XBR is sent a 1080i image or a 720P image from my HTPC, the images look awesome. Depending on the use, you don't need a high powered PC to do this.. The key is a good video card and for easy of use and the best image quality possible on the GWIII, I recommend NVidia's products.

The Key here is to avoid using images that have been encoded for a DVD and have been reduced to 720x480. It's always better to take a larger image and scale it smaller and display it than taking a small pocture and scaling it larger when displaying it. Example.. Scaling a 720x480 image to 1280x720 will result in jagged edges vs taking a 2.1 megapixel image that is 1600x1200 and scaling it down to 1280x720.

I have a thread over in the HTPC area that covers the GWIII/PC process aling with a bunch of service mode optimizations that eliminate many of Sony's image enhancements that introduce many image artifacts.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3326925#post3326925


Thanks,
Vidkidd

Originally posted by vidkidd
I display my Digital Images using popular windows applications, like CompuPic Pro, etc. My digital library started with a Nikon Coolpix 950 (2.1MegaPixel) back in '99 which I upgraded last year to the Sony F727 (5.0 Mega Pixel) and all of the photos look flawless when displayed on the XBR.


You mean sony F717 ? or F828 ? I have a F707.

The images look great from a memory stick, but that is not a viable option since I transfer images out from the memory stick to my HD.

And then the PC is lying in my home office room while the TV is in my family room so thats another problem connecting the two.

Third option is my measly non-progressive DVD player that reads jpegs just fine but the pic qual isnt good.

I guess its time I invested in a good DVD player like the Denon. That way I can just put my photo archive CDs in there and browse through the images on my TV -or- optionally put them in my PC's cd tray and browse the images there using IrfanView.

Other option would be to purchase some sort of wireless display adapter for my PC to display on my TV. Need to research this.

Thanks everyone for their replies.


Whether the XBR is sent a 1080i image or a 720P image from my HTPC, the images look awesome. Depending on the use, you don't need a high powered PC to do this.. The key is a good video card and for easy of use and the best image quality possible on the GWIII, I recommend NVidia's products.

The Key here is to avoid using images that have been encoded for a DVD and have been reduced to 720x480. It's always better to take a larger image and scale it smaller and display it than taking a small pocture and scaling it larger when displaying it. Example.. Scaling a 720x480 image to 1280x720 will result in jagged edges vs taking a 2.1 megapixel image that is 1600x1200 and scaling it down to 1280x720.

I have a thread over in the HTPC area that covers the GWIII/PC process aling with a bunch of service mode optimizations that eliminate many of Sony's image enhancements that introduce many image artifacts.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3326925#post3326925


Thanks,
Vidkidd

Originally posted by mallu2u
Alright, this is not such a great news. They called me yesterday and said that since u are dissatisfied, we shall order an exchange for you. What I am thinking is that I shall let them go ahead with it and then when it comes, I shall test the new TV and whichever one looks good, I shall keep that one. How about that? My question is if I would see this bleed/color issue as soon as I turn the new TV own the first time?? Hope it does not happen over days/time. What do u say?

Second question is whether you recommend me buying the Avia or DVE disk and callibrating this TV before I get the replacement. And yes I do not see the issue when I am watching a movie.

Is there anyone out there who has NOT see this issue with their XBR or had the issue and the replacement does not (coz then u wud know what exactly to look out for)?

How can I test for Ghosting so that I make sure that while current TV does not have Ghosting, the new one also does not. Or some other known issues with the XBR.

Thanks a ton....know its a lot of questions.

Alright folks...need recommendation. Am at a point where the dealer calls me and tells me that You're right, Sony agrees that there is an issue with green bleed and it is due to the lens that they can easily change without an issue. The other way to resolve the issue would be to get an exchange for a new TV and see how it is.
Now, I am in two minds. If I order a new TV, then the new one might/might not have this or other issues or maybe perfect. However my current TV seems perfect otherwise except this green bleed. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that I am going to get my TV opened within a month or so of buying it. What do guys say?
My dealer is very understanding and has no issues whatsoever in doing what I decide. He sincerely advises me to get the lens changed since its a very minor thing and does not affect anything else and will resolve my issue specially since I am otherwise happy with the TV. And seems to be genuinely concerned abt me not having any other issue and be happy with the purchase. Need your input folks!

I'd go for the lens swap. Couldn't be that hard a procedure and if everything else with the set is fine, why not.

mallu2u.... Can you go over the green bleed issue you are seeing in a bit more detail?? I missed that thread and would like to know what and where you are seeing this as my eyes picked up something like this a while ago but wrote it off. If there is a simple fix, that would be great. It would give me a reason to have that fixed and my internal mirror adjusted to fix the pincushioning at the same time.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Just an update. I finally pulled the trigger and got the 60". Here are some of my observations.

Build Date is April 2004.
Bulb turns on between 6 and 9 blinks every time.
There are fingerprints on the INSIDE of the front screen, but they are only visible at one particular angle and only when the TV is off. I also have seen the "green" glow in the lower right side of the set, but it's not objectionable as any time there are images on screen your too busy drooling over the images. No stuck pixels so far on any of the three LCD panels. As to "poor blacks", it does seem to not be able to display "blacker than black", but when adjusted according to DVD Essentials or THX Optimizer, there isn't any "lack" of black detail or intensity. Both LOTR Battle of Helms Deep and Star Wars Episode 2 the opening scenes are perfectly adequate.

Before buying the set, I ran a number of tests on different models at different stores.

I created a number of jpgs which I placed on a memory stick to use to evaluate the TV BEFORE buying it.

I set up various resolutions, 640X480, 720X1280, 1080X1920. One annoying thing I noticed for every photo was the shift of the image to the top and left of the screen for the "high res" shots. Photos included solid red, blue, green, magenta, cyan, yellow and black to look for stuck pixels, and a separate black block set with block density set in discrete steps all the way from 0,0,0 to 255,255,255.

As to the display of photos, the ones taken with my MD-7 (640X480) showed lots of jaggies but were still okay to look at. The 2mb images from my CD-1000 looked beautiful. The 2Mb images even looked great when zoomed in. The video from my Sony Digital-8 camcorder via fire-wire wasn't bad either. I've even tried out the 16:9 mode on the camcorder and the TV automatically changed formats when the playback changed.

The store where I ran my evaluation test had almost every sales person over watching the demo photos and listening to the piano music. (Way cool. Try it if you haven't yet. The Piano is located in the slide show settings for memory stick playback.)

Last Sat I connected up my Dell Latitude 600 laptop using the laptop's built-in S-Video connector. The Dell defaults to 1024 X 768 and won't let me adjust to any other screen resolution. You could see the Sony trying to scale the images. The windows desktop looked fuzzy and out of focus. Some games looked okay, and the screen saver aquarium looked very nice. I wouldn't want to try and work using the XBR as my main computer monitor however.

I've noticed that watching SD programs at times also look "out-of-focus". I know the optics of the set are focused as still images and HD broadcasts are sharp.

Other comments. The Digital Signal Strength meter could use a lot of work. For my area it seems that unless I have 21 bars illuminated I don't get reliable HD reception. No signal shows 14 bars. What's up with that? (I know it's really a Bit Error Rate Meter. No signal should be NO bars.)
It would be cool if the meter could be color coded too. It's a pain to watch a show when the audio or picture drop out at critical moments.

To impress viewers try out the MID capabilities. I had the Giants baseball game on "HD with SD res, thanks FOX" and SD side by side. What a difference. The SD was full of ghosts and snow and the HD side was sharp and clear.

Lee

wondering if anyone has actually done this themselves and could provide details on how they did it and what they used as a shim.

For those who have had the XBR for a while, perhaps it's time to check your convergence again... Mine seems to have shifted a bit.. Some areas are better others are worse. Has anyone else noticed this going on with the optics on the set?

Thanks,
Vidkidd

I just got one.

What a terrific picture!

Much better than my Elite 65.

I'm happy.

Originally posted by vidkidd
mallu2u.... Can you go over the green bleed issue you are seeing in a bit more detail?? I missed that thread and would like to know what and where you are seeing this as my eyes picked up something like this a while ago but wrote it off. If there is a simple fix, that would be great. It would give me a reason to have that fixed and my internal mirror adjusted to fix the pincushioning at the same time.

Thx,
Vidkidd

Well, when I switch on my TV and am staring at blank screen (say DVD not swtiched on), I can see some greenish tint on the lower right cornor of my TV. Never noticed it while I am watching TV or even on DVDs. I had a techician come over and he could not see much since he came during the day. (I had asked him to come over in the evening). Well, to cut the story short, he checked with Sony and Sony has told them it is a know issue and that he could replace the lens that should solve the issue. I think I shall go with the lens replacement since who knows the new TV might come with different issues. Worst case, if it does not resolve the issue, I shall have them replace the TV. So far thats the plan.

Originally posted by vidkidd
For those who have had the XBR for a while, perhaps it's time to check your convergence again... Mine seems to have shifted a bit.. Some areas are better others are worse. Has anyone else noticed this going on with the optics on the set?

Thanks,
Vidkidd

How do u check for it?

Originally posted by mallu2u
Well, when I switch on my TV and am staring at blank screen (say DVD not swtiched on), I can see some greenish tint on the lower right cornor of my TV. Never noticed it while I am watching TV or even on DVDs. I had a techician come over and he could not see much since he came during the day. (I had asked him to come over in the evening). Well, to cut the story short, he checked with Sony and Sony has told them it is a know issue and that he could replace the lens that should solve the issue. I think I shall go with the lens replacement since who knows the new TV might come with different issues. Worst case, if it does not resolve the issue, I shall have them replace the TV. So far thats the plan.

Mallu2u, let me know how this turns out, I've noticed the same thing on mine for quite a while, sort of annoying when the screen flashes black inbetween commercials and whatnot. Thanks,

bberns22:

Last year I had my GWII optical block shimmed by my local techs to correct a slight left side down picture tilt. While they had the back off of the set, I actually fashioned the shim out of a small piece of wood using a Dremel tool to make it into a wedge shape. I didn't see the actual installation of the shim but I know that they loosened the optical block mounting screws and adjusted it in the horizontal while I directed them from the front.

It was a rather low tech solution to fix a high tech set, but a year later it is still good.

Will do so Ben:Gb

3 days old, and now it (70XBR) won't turn on.

The power/standby light flashes red several times. The manual says that means the Lamp Cover is not secured.

Well. it is. I've removed the lamp and reinstalled it, making sure it and the covert is secure and tight, but the same warnimg persists.

Any help would be appreciated!

peterhodes, I had that happen once. I took out the lamp, I thought the contacts might be dirty so I pushed the lamp assembly in and out several times, just far enough out and then all the way back in to rub the lamp contacts. This hasn't happened since and it's been several months. Good Luck.

WOW was that a long read. Well I am going to take my chances and get the 60" XBR should be quite a step up from my first gen Toshiba Cinema Series CRT HDTV now I just need to find a DVD player that will make me happy for around $500 though I might just bite the bullet and get the pioneer DV59-AVi though Id love the Denon 5900 took me a good 2 weeks to figure out which TV to go with. At first I was going to go samsung but I wanted to see the new sets. Right after I ordered the XBR best buy got the HLP's in and I was shocked at how good the black levels were they really are ink black but it still looked to cartoonish for my taste. All the colors were over exaggerated, which I guess some people might like but I prefer a more natural look. In addition after about 2 days of looking at DLP’s I started to get bad migraines like I used to get as a kid and that kind of sealed the deal for me. I watch way to much TV to over look something like that. So here’s hopping for a flawless set knock on wood.

LinkerX: I can assure you that despite few issues with the XBRs, you shall love them! I looked at so many and found this one that satisfies me. Yes, it was pricier that what I had in mind but then satisfaction guaranteed to me not to mention the rave reviews I get for them whenever someone comes over! Look for my post on green bleed and just make sure you don't see that on urs. Thats all.

LinkerX

Congrats on the xbr purchase.

I found the DVD player search to be more of a problem than the actual TV. Hope you do better. ;)

What did you finally buy JimP?

mallu2u,

I wound up with a Denon 5900. Its built like a tank, but it doesn't look like Denon can fix the macroblocking problem which for a $2K DVD player sucks. I had a 2900 for a few weeks that I upgraded to the 5900 based on a comparison on a Sharp 10k front projection machine. I think the difference may have been more evident on the front projector than on the 60" screen. Even then on the front projector, it was only slight. The 5900 definately has better sound, but unless Denon fixes the macroblocking problem, I'd recommend the 2900. There is a thread over on the DVD forum about getting refurbed 2900s at about half price. For someone looking in the $500 range, that would be the one I'd recommend.

hmm....drawback being that it does have the DVI/HDMI. Only 5900 does that....for the price..way out of my league!!

I was just about to purchase the KDF-60XBR950 but I understand a new one is coming later this month? Is this true? And if so what are the differences going to be? Thanks!

XBRs shall not be updated this year. Sony is bringing out a new XS line later in the year. Maybe September..search for a thread that says "2004 Sony..." and u shall see it. They are one step lower than XBRs

I have been seriously considering a Sony KDF-60XBR950 to replace my Toshiba 57HX81 (the set is calibrated and picture is excellent WHEN it is in focus and converged - but that is rare these days). An LCD set should have no such problems. For those of you who have one, I'd like to ask three questions:

Is there direct input selection (for programming the remote system controller)? My Tosh has it and there should be on a set in this price range.

Does each input "remember" the video settings?

I have a Yamaha DSP-A1 and want to use the digitial audio on OTA ATSC sginals. Does this set pass them it out properly (SPDIF coax or Toslink)?

Thanks in advance,

- FD

Hi,
I have my Sony KDF-60XBR950 in a custom built-in cabinet, which is a very tight fit. there is probably 1/2 inch clearance on the top, and 1/4 inch on either side. Now the cabinet is 28" deep so there is plenty of space behind it. I was reading through the manual yesterday and noticed a warning about enclosing the TV in an cabinet. (I guess I had previously overlooked the caveat.) I was wondering if anyone else has theirs in a cabinet and if so, whether they did anything to help air circulation. It would be a PITA, but I could install one or two 4" fans in the top back of the cabinet to help airflow.

I read the The Texas Instruments report on RP LCD vs DLP before purchaseing and the thought keeps running through my mind that the longivity of the set will be compromised by not having it as cool as possible. Is this something I should be concerned about or am I being paranoid?

I would appreciate any thoughts.

thanks,

Originally posted by Floobydust
I have been seriously considering a Sony KDF-60XBR950 to replace my Toshiba 57HX81 (the set is calibrated and picture is excellent WHEN it is in focus and converged - but that is rare these days). An LCD set should have no such problems. For those of you who have one, I'd like to ask three questions:

Is there direct input selection (for programming the remote system controller)? My Tosh has it and there should be on a set in this price range.

Does each input "remember" the video settings?

I have a Yamaha DSP-A1 and want to use the digitial audio on OTA ATSC sginals. Does this set pass them it out properly (SPDIF coax or Toslink)?

Thanks in advance,

- FD

- Dunno what you mean by direct input selection. The remote has a TV/video button when pressed cycles through the various video modes. You can also skip some video modes, if you'd like
- Yes, the TV remembers the settings for video modes. Like I have 'vivid' for my DVDs and 'standard' for my OTA antenna.
- There is a optical/Toslink digital out for OTA audio

Hope I answered ur Qs.

goOn

I wouldn't take any chances on damaging the TV due to poor ventilation. For under a $100, you could probably add as much ventilation as you need.

Since its in a cabinet, I'd take a look at drilling two 3" holes ion the shelf supporting the TV, towards the back and mount a pair of thermostatically controlled computer fans (the ultra quiet ones) such that they are blowing air into the cavity towards the bottom, behind the TV.

Originally posted by Floobydust
I have been seriously considering a Sony KDF-60XBR950 to replace my Toshiba 57HX81 (the set is calibrated and picture is excellent WHEN it is in focus and converged - but that is rare these days). An LCD set should have no such problems. For those of you who have one, I'd like to ask three questions:

Is there direct input selection (for programming the remote system controller)? My Tosh has it and there should be on a set in this price range.

Does each input "remember" the video settings?

I have a Yamaha DSP-A1 and want to use the digitial audio on OTA ATSC sginals. Does this set pass them it out properly (SPDIF coax or Toslink)?

Thanks in advance,

- FD

Ya I went fromt the 57HX81 to the 60XBR950 and you should be very happy with your upgrade

I am a newbie. I just got my kdf-70XBR-950 delivered. Before purchasing I read the owners thread and got a lot of great info. Special thanks to Corvette for the % mark up. I got a good deal with that info. My first problem is that I have a Hughes Directv DVR/receiver. The only code listed for Hughes by Sony to control have the Sony remote control the satellite is 804 and that does not work. Does anyone have any update on a source for new codes that might make it work?? Sony's web site only lists the 804 code and Hughes only give codes to make their remote work Sony's tv. Any help appreciated and apologies if I posted this incorrectly.

Monday Monday Monday :)

I cant wait just checked one out in brandsmart and its amazing I almost wet myself lol

Anyways im still stuck on my DVD player choice I want a 2900 but the 2200 looks good to. I have an onkyo 800 reciever and klipsch speakers and am not sure what will be the best solution for DVD's and DVD-Audio... Which would you guys go with?

Raven, I don't think you're going to get the Sony remote to work the DirecTivo, regardless of who makes it. IF you had the Sony SAT-T60, your Sony TV remote would be able to change the channels on the Tivo for you, but that's it. I use the Tivo remote to control the Volume, power and input on the TV when I am using the Tivo. There is so much functionality in the DirecTivo it doesn't make sense to me to try to use the TV's remote anyway.

Next you have to get the HD-Tivo. It's the best! I've had one for about a month and it's great. Best of all, it just like regular Tivo, but but it also records HDTV shows.

Originally posted by Villageman



But it is not the set for me, unfortunately. Because it is almost as reflective as the GWII from last year. The Plexiglas shield, which the salesman says is not removable...and it sure looks like it is not removable to me---makes a beautiful mirror. We have windows everywhere and a view of the entire SF Bay Area from San Jose to San Francisco so the little wife would never put up with bricking up the windows, or even air raid curtains. I may have to settle for the 60" GWIII with its ugly cabinet and inferior picture. If you have a light controlled room I would highly recommend this giant. It has the WOW factor in spades.

Can anyone confirm/deny the problem with bright rooms? How about the removable for hte plastic screen?

Runch Machine, I have the KDF-60XBR950 and an HD Tivo on order. What output mode do you use for the HD Tivo (480p, 720P or 1080i)? DO you leave it the same for all shows? How do you watch SD content with the HD Tivo? Let the Tivo scale it (leave the Tivo output option setting alone) or set SD to 480i? What connection are you using between the HD Tivo and the TV? Thanks...joe

Originally posted by Joe Jensen
Runch Machine, I have the KDF-60XBR950 and an HD Tivo on order. What output mode do you use for the HD Tivo (480p, 720P or 1080i)? DO you leave it the same for all shows? How do you watch SD content with the HD Tivo? Let the Tivo scale it (leave the Tivo output option setting alone) or set SD to 480i? What connection are you using between the HD Tivo and the TV? Thanks...joe

I normally leave the HD-Tivo at 1080i. Most of what I watch is either over the air (OTA) from the local digital stations or HDNET. ABC is 720p. I let the Tivo scale it to 1080i. I don't think I can see a difference between 1080i and 720p. I have a Sony SAT-HD200 also which is a Directv and OTA HD receiver. When I have the HD200 set to Auto DVI and connected to the TV's DVI jack, it stays at 1080i for both 1080i and 720 broadcasts. I think this is because the TV prefers it that way. The HD200 does switch to 480P for any broadcasts that are not HD. As far as Directv SD programming, I have looked at it both at 1080i and 480i and both look the same.

As far as connection, I had HD-Tivo connected to the DVI jack for a while. Then I wanted to also use the Sony SAT-HD200. I compared both units connected with DVI and Component. I thought the HD200 looked slightly better connected via DVI. I thought the HD-Tivo looked about the same or maybe very slightly better at DVI, but wasn't sure. So I connected the HD-Tivo via component. I have also compared the HD-Tivo and the HD200 and they both look either identical or the HD200 might look ever so slightly better. I did freeze frame on both to try to get the exact comparison and had to stare at the TV really hard to see a difference. Clearly there is no real difference if it is that hard to see it.

All I can say it, we love our HD-Tivo.

Yes, the SAT-HD200 will send 720P & outputs it to 1080 I in the DVI mode. All SD is output to 480 P . Some like the LG tuners will also do 480 I. Does your SD look as good as your built in tuner on your SONY TV ? I have the same setup. I never get quit as good a SD picture on the SAT-HD 200. I have to adjust it , If I have it to sharp I see some vertical lines. G.B.

Wow, what an encompassing thread! Awesome. I was all set to join the distinguished ranks of XBR royalty yesterday. There is a Sony dealer yesterday that has a 70" XBR in stock on display that he was holding for me sight unseen. I went to pick it up yesterday. As I looked at the set, almost dead in the middle was a glowing RED DOT. I could not take my eyes off of it! It didn't look like what I thought a dead pixel was. On my 42" GWIII, there are a 3 green pixels near the edge that are lit at all times. I have to be 2-3 inches from the screen to see them. The XBR has at least 10 or more of these green pixels. I could live with those, even though they are not only on the edges. What is KILLING ME is the friggin RED thing. It almost looks like a laser pointer dot, and we could all see it from 12 FEET (not inches) back! Upon closer inspection, not only is the entire pixel red, but it looks to have spread halfway into each of the 4 pixels bordering it. The Dealer offered to sweeten the deal as he saw me unwinding. I can't say the price, but will say it was under $5,000. He said Sony "may" repair or replace the set, depending on the Tech's findings upon visiting it in my home. I happen to know the Tech, as he has worked on my GWIII bulb & ballast, as well as helping me through my NIGHTMARE with my "streaking" Pioneer Elite POS. He is also an ISF calibrator. The Dealer also said I have 30 days to return the set with no consequence. The tight@$$ in me said, "BUY IT NOW" when they offered to toss in a 5 year extended warranty. The common sense, battle hardened by Pioneer realist in me said to RUN. What was I seeing on that set, and what would Sony likely do? Thanks!

I would have them make it right with you. At any price you want to be happy with the product. Like a restaurant , you don't mind the price if it was good....If you leave hungry thats not good....

I did not buy it yet. IF Sony would fix it (a big IF), it would be an absolute STEAL. If not, then it would be a foolish gamble. That's my dilemma. A thread here gives me hope. Someone had a "lit" blue pixel in the center of the screen, and Sony replaced the "Optic Block" under warranty. This was a $1,000 part. http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/2/960.html

Partrick,

I wonder if you could have them out to fix it within the 30days you have to return it.... if so and if you could do that, then that might be worth it, knowing you could return it if not satisfied...

isn't there a certain number of dead pixels, where any more than that, it's replacable/fixable under warranty??

That's what I'm thinking now. I may call the service place that fixed my GWIII, and see when they would come out.

I just got a KDF-60XBR950 set. I'm having a problem and am not sure if it is the TV, or a problem related to my local CBS affiliate's HD signal. The HD signal is actually being broadcast on channel 4. However, the analog counterpart to this channel is 21. (WHP TV 21/WHP-DT 4). It appears that when tuning to the HD channels, the channel numbers are being remapped to the counterpart analog channel number. I.e., when I tune to 4.1 on the TV, I get a box that pops up and indicates that channel 4 is now on channel 21.1, hit enter or exit. Hitting enter or exit then takes me to 21.1 and I get the program. What has been happening however, is every few minutes then the box pops back up again and now indicates that channel 21 is now on channel 4, hit enter or exit. I hit exit and another box pops up and indicates the original message that channel 4 is now on channel 21, hit enter or exit. Hitting exit then takes me back to the program. The problem is the boxes keeping popping up every few minutes. I have not been experiencing this problem with the local PBS HD channel. Any thoughts or words of wisdom?

This has happened before. I think they send a signal to tell your tuner to show ch. 4. but some one at the station changed it & you get the switch. It happened here for two weeks then it changed back. But note if you bring up signal strength you will see 21. You might try an update & see if it corrects. May call the station if it is not long distance. I have the XBR tuner & the SONY SAT-HD200 both did it & corrected the same time. When you go to 21 it will tell you this channel is on 4 again.....

Patrick TX

I wouldn't get in a position where they can drag out the repair, then the next thing you know you're outside of the 30 day return period.

Just tell them that you'll buy it if they'll fix it. If they're not willing to do that, I'd be suspect that Sony would authorize a fix after you bought it and got it home.

Well I got my TV and its quite nice im a little disappointed in that I have 5 dead pixels scattered through out the screen but I cant see them from 8 ft so its not a huge deal. Also it seems to be off by one pixel which is only noticeable in text which really isn’t very noticeable. Other then that I am extremely pleased the picture is a very nice improvement over my Toshiba 57HX81 and the OTA broadcast is very nice to watch. Also Xbox games look great as well as my Toshiba cinema series DVD player (http://www.hometheatermag.com/dvdplayers/108/ btw what do ya think of it) which I was concerned wouldn’t. My only question now is there anyway to make the remote adjust the volume on my surround sound receiver its an onkyo?

The Channel Hopping bug has bit me too. I think its signal strength related as it happened to me when it was raining cats and dogs here one evening. I've seen it a few other times as well. What bugs me is you have to select the ok function in the pop-up or it will not go away, it changes the channel and immediately tells you it's back on the other channel and you have to do it again. I finally got disgusted with it and tuned into the SD analog channel. I don't think its someone at the station doing this, I think its in the Sony Tuner trying to find the station and map it to a channel number. I know HD stations such as Fox, CBS, etc can encode their signals to say that such and such freq. is to be displayed on Channel #XX so maybe during hte bad weather that part of the signal was getting interrupted and the Sony was trying to "interpret" it.

StevieB,

The remapping info is sent from the station to help viewers find the new channel. I think the problem is theirs, not yours. The key is the other station you mention which is working fine. Many engineers are not yet paying full attention to the digital side and mistakes are very frequent. Give them a call, they will be happy to know someone is watching!

Dave

Stevie B.
I had the same annoying thing happen to me also and I temporarily solved it by manually entering the channel it first wants to jump to. By doing that it never jumped back. The only bad part Is I could never get the Guide to recognize it as a digital channel and had to manually enter it each time.

I wouldn't get in a position where they can drag out the repair, then the next thing you know you're outside of the 30 day return period.

I agree. I called my service center, and they are 2-3 weeks back on visits. That's cutting it too close for me.

Here in Austin I had a bulb issue and it took them 3 days to get by. I can't beleive San Antonio is so backlogged. Have you tried a different servicer or called Sony direct?

Thanks guys for all the responses to "the channel hopping bug". I've been playing phone tag with one of the engineers at the affected station, but haven't been able to hook up with him yet.

Another question that the manual doen't make 100% clear (to me at least). Are the analog audio outputs supposed to be active all the time, or only when the TV's internal speakers are switched off in the audio menu. I have not been able to get them to work yet. But I think I have the audio cable going into the wrong jacks on my receiver. (In my set-up it's such a pain to pull the receiver out so I can access all the jacks, that I haven't had the time or energy to fully investigate yet.)

Again, thanks to all for all your feedback and help!

StevieB,

To clarify my earlier post, a reception problem not withstanding, the channel info (PSIP) may be at fault. I have found a great deal of info on the "local hdtv info" topic under the "hdtv" heading at the main menu. The Dayton and Cincinnati threads (my area) have some very knowledgeable input. Check for a thread covering your area. Hope this helps.

Dave